# Your chicken coops are covered in these



## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

We shot a bunch of lionfish on a chicken coop today. Yours are probably covered too. We shot 149 total and got about 30 from one coop.


----------



## TeaSea (Sep 28, 2013)

well crapadoodle!


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Looks like the makings of a good fish fry. I'm going to try for them with hook and line using small live baits.


----------



## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Pyramids are loaded too....I killed 94 in one dive off of 1 pyramid Tuesday!
I maxed out my lionfish bag.
Clint dove the same spot after me and got 15 more!
We were shocked by the numbers we saw!
We got 340 fish for the day between Clint and I.
This is beyond a worst case scenario!


----------



## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

sounds like it's time for some percussion bombs on the ones that have nothing but lions on them to get them all at once.
good job guys on killing that many. can't understand why they wont hit a hook???


----------



## floorman1 (Jan 10, 2012)

Do these fish affect the other species on the reefs. I mean do they run other fish away or do you guys see other species on the same reefs with these.are they edible


----------



## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

What depths did these come from?


----------



## flappininthebreeze (Jul 13, 2009)

*Lionfish*



floorman1 said:


> Do these fish affect the other species on the reefs. I mean do they run other fish away or do you guys see other species on the same reefs with these.are they edible


YES! They affect other species by eating them. They eat everything that fits in their mouth (up to 1/2 their body size). Once they eat all that is there, the other, larger, fish leave, because there is nothing to eat. As the Lionfish saturation grows, the other species leave, or are eaten. The site may "feel" fished out, and you may think someone found and fished out your spot, when it may be Lionfish. 

Research shown that once a site or area is cleared of Lionfish, it will stay clear for 3-6 months. Bait, and larger predator fish, will move back in quickly. Lionfish are site allegient, and don't move around. Bait, and the fish we hunt move, and take space as available. 

Every fisherman who has (had) productive private sites, and is concerned the Lionfish have taken their spot, should consider having their sites cleaned, or clean them themselves. There are divers locally that will be happy to help. There are also organizations formed, and forming, devoted to this effort. Several rodeos and tournaments coming up will have lots of divers looking to clean some reefs. They don't want your numbers, just a chance to shoot your Lionfish. Everybody wins. PM me for specifics. 

FireFish has shown you the problem, and partial solution, on his videos. It's going to take an ongoing effort, and cooperation, to have an impact. Just this week, 2 boats, on 2 consecutive days, took over 500 Lionfish. Most multi-day rodeos take only 1000 or so. If we make taking these fish a priority, we can make a difference. We have a problem, and a solution for controlling the problem. 

And yes, they are edible, easy to clean, and delicious like you can't believe.


----------



## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Here is a frame out of some video I shot Tuesday. This is the pyramid I took 94 off of in 1 dive.


----------



## dsar592 (Oct 12, 2007)

Thats just amazing to me that there are that many out there. I'm gonna have to get in on this cause since there is no limit or season I might be able to catch a dang fish.


----------



## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

notice how there isnt a single other thing on that pyramid!


----------



## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

Hope you can do some good but fact is you spear chunkers need to do the math on this issue. Thousands of reefs, hundreds of lionfish per reef and maybe a few dozen divers. Temporary local control is probably the best you can do.

Lionfish have been in the Atlantic for almost 20 years---but in a mere 3 years in the gulf, the population has exploded. More research is needed in their native habitat to see what possible controls might work and if they respond the same to artificial vs natural reefs. That photo in this thread is very alarming.


----------



## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Kim said:


> Looks like the makings of a good fish fry. I'm going to try for them with hook and line using small live baits.


I have heard that lionfish are occasionally caught on hook-and-line. I suspect they will eat almost anything after they have consumed all of the bait fish on a reef.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

WhackUmStackUm said:


> I have heard that lionfish are occasionally caught on hook-and-line. I suspect they will eat almost anything after they have consumed all of the bait fish on a reef.


 
The problem on a reef such as a small pyramid is that it is hard due to boat drift and or current, to position a bait directly on top of of the pyramid where the lion fish are lazing about waiting on their next victim. In my opinion, the lionfish are not going to swim off a reef any sort of distance or even 10 feet for that matter to take a bait. suspect that if you could fish a live shrimp on lite fluorcarbon directly on top of a lionfish he would eat it. Just my opinion though.


----------



## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

Even if you figure out how to catch them, is that going to be an effective method of population control? Probably not.

While you guys are diving do some experiments with different baits and see how the LF respond. Also, they appear to be vulnerable to trapping, so maybe there is some opportunity to optimize a trap design for LF.


----------



## jbs_bama (May 24, 2010)

Are these fish really that good to eat?


----------



## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> The problem on a reef such as a small pyramid is that it is hard due to boat drift and or current, to position a bait directly on top of of the pyramid where the lion fish are lazing about waiting on their next victim. In my opinion, the lionfish are not going to swim off a reef any sort of distance or even 10 feet for that matter to take a bait. suspect that if you could fish a live shrimp on lite fluorcarbon directly on top of a lionfish he would eat it. Just my opinion though.


We do see some lionfish foraging 20 to 100' from infested reefs. When divers approach, they scurry back to the pyramid or chicken coop for cover.


----------



## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

jbs_bama said:


> Are these fish really that good to eat?


They are delicious. Better than flounder in my opinion.


----------



## jflfarmer (Oct 25, 2013)

I dont have any of those in my chicken coop. I just have a bunch of chicken poop


----------



## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

jbs_bama said:


> Are these fish really that good to eat?


The Flora-Bama Yacht Club serves lionfish, if you want to give them a try.


----------



## coolbluestreak (Jun 27, 2011)

flappininthebreeze said:


> Lionfish are site allegient, and don't move around.
> 
> We have a problem, and a solution for controlling the problem.
> 
> And yes, they are edible, easy to clean, and delicious like you can't believe.


 
Lionfish may not "move", but somehow they got here and are covering our reefs.

The solution to the problem is also a problem for me. 
Diving is not cheap and to really target lionfish you have to pass on the bigger fish that make the price of gas/gear/air... more justifiable. I work 7 days on and have the next 7 off, so needless to say I have some spare time for diving. I'm no different that anyone else who pays for fishing, when I fork out the money, I want the biggest fish I can get my hands on, not a bunch of little ones. 

Now throw in a free/cheap boat ride to help clean a reef of lionfish and I'll grab the polespear and be heading for the door with my gear in tow. 

Another problem is that a LOT of fisherman think that divers are the devil out to steal their secret fishing hole and therefore would rather see their reef covered in sand before taking a diver there to get rid of the real problem.

For the fisherman that would like to have a diver help them out, but are leary of the divers intention. just ask them to turn their phone off or look in their bag for a handheld gps if you are that skeptical. Divers are good people that enjoy being on the water so much that they have to get in it.


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Those things are the most veracious eaters I've ever seen. I had one in a fish tank and had to get rid of it because it would eat all the food before anything else could get to it. A small one would pack 15 shrimp in its belly and literally have them sticking out of his mouth. The don't chew either, just suck them in like a grouper.


----------



## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

bigrick said:


> Those things are the most veracious eaters I've ever seen. I had one in a fish tank and had to get rid of it because it would eat all the food before anything else could get to it. A small one would pack 15 shrimp in its belly and literally have them sticking out of his mouth. The don't chew either, just suck them in like a grouper.


Amazing. The wild ones gorge themselves until their bellies are distended.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

WhackUmStackUm said:


> We do see some lionfish foraging 20 to 100' from infested reefs. When divers approach, they scurry back to the pyramid or chicken coop for cover.


cool. good to know.


----------



## jbs_bama (May 24, 2010)

If anyone ever gets too many let me know. I'd like to try them sometime.


----------



## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

flappininthebreeze said:


> YES! They affect other species by eating them. They eat everything that fits in their mouth (up to 1/2 their body size). Once they eat all that is there, the other, larger, fish leave, because there is nothing to eat. As the Lionfish saturation grows, the other species leave, or are eaten. The site may "feel" fished out, and you may think someone found and fished out your spot, when it may be Lionfish.
> 
> Research shown that once a site or area is cleared of Lionfish, it will stay clear for 3-6 months. Bait, and larger predator fish, will move back in quickly. Lionfish are site allegient, and don't move around. Bait, and the fish we hunt move, and take space as available.
> 
> ...


Wow. 

I've gotta learn to dive....


----------



## flappininthebreeze (Jul 13, 2009)

coolbluestreak said:


> Lionfish may not "move", but somehow they got here and are covering our reefs.
> 
> The solution to the problem is also a problem for me.
> Diving is not cheap and to really target lionfish you have to pass on the bigger fish that make the price of gas/gear/air... more justifiable. I work 7 days on and have the next 7 off, so needless to say I have some spare time for diving. I'm no different that anyone else who pays for fishing, when I fork out the money, I want the biggest fish I can get my hands on, not a bunch of little ones.
> ...


The reproduction model is they release an egg mass, as often as every 4 days, which drifts down current for a few days until it breaks up, scattering LF fry on the nearest structure, where they stay, and repeat the cycle.

The economics can work. Fishermen can't afford to hire divers to clean their sites. Divers DO want to hunt the big fish, on their own dime, but will take a ride along to clean someone else's spots. They might even pony up some form of compensation during a rodeo to get a chance to hit some densely populated sites. It can work. Like I said the willing divers aren't looking for numbers, just Lionfish. A little trust and cooperation will go a long way.


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Seems to me that cleaning off artificial reef structures and keeping them that way would be cost prohibitive just in fuel. With the eggs and fry drifting down stream constantly you will always have a continuous source of new Lion Fish inhabitants. I hope that our local Snapper and Grouper put them at the top of the menu sooner the better. They are learning already so I hope that they will resolve this situation.

I doubt that there are enough divers in the GOM to wipe them out in the first place, meanwhile they will just continue to come into the GOM with the Gulf Stream. I'm not going to lose any sleep over the Lion Fish epidemic because I believe that nature will prevail and things will find it natural equilibrium.


----------



## Hangover (Aug 5, 2013)

flappininthebreeze said:


> The reproduction model is they release an egg mass, as often as every 4 days, which drifts down current for a few days until it breaks up, scattering LF fry on the nearest structure, where they stay, and repeat the cycle.
> .


Just a question...if you kill a lion fish with eggs, and toss the eggs in water at the marina would it still be possible for those eggs to hatch more lion fish? I'm not sure how many lion fish with eggs are killed but it may be worth the extra precaution to make sure their egg sacks don't go back overboard.


----------



## afishanado (Oct 26, 2009)

Hangover said:


> Just a question...if you kill a lion fish with eggs, and toss the eggs in water at the marina would it still be possible for those eggs to hatch more lion fish? I'm not sure how many lion fish with eggs are killed but it may be worth the extra precaution to make sure their egg sacks don't go back overboard.


Pretty sure that they need to be fertilized somehow, so I imagine the risk is low...

But it is pretty amazing that in the last couple years, (which is when I first started hearing about Lionfish in our area), that they have expanded this quickly.

If it is true Lionfish are "cleaning out reefs" this fast, then our snapper overpopulation woes of the past are going to be short-lived. But I am just a little bit skeptical.....


----------



## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm wondering what controls them on their native Pacific coral reefs? Also are their numbers exploding in the Keys like they are here?


----------



## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Florabama said:


> I'm wondering what controls them on their native Pacific coral reefs? Also are their numbers exploding in the Keys like they are here?


After speaking with multiple researchers ....I have come to the realization that they don't really understand the Native system - because it has not been studied.
As for the keys - from anecdotal, and personal experience ....NO ...they are not anywhere near as bad down there as they are here. For some reason - that has yet to be fully explained - we are in an area that seems to be perfect for the development of the lionfish population.
The ocean currents, water temp, food source, reef type, ect... all contribute. The lionfish population here is defying the rules for rate of growth, and rate of reproduction. No one yet knows what will happen, because the lionfish here are behaving in a ways that have not been observed in other locations.

I don't think that the lionfish I have killed ( over 1K ) has made a dent in the population.....but that is not why I'm doing it.
I do believe it makes a difference to the reefs we clean......but our main goal is to provide specimens to scientific research. 
We are currently working with the University of Mississippi, Dolphin Island Sealab, UWF, and others.
We have also provided quite a few fish to the Florabama to encourage the consumption of this fish.
Some people believe that nature will sort it out on its own. That's true....but it might be nice to have a choice in the decision. Mother Nature does not always decide in our favor......I believe there is plenty of proof that invasive species can destroy an ecosystem forever.....its fact....not the easter bunny or santa clause.


----------



## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

If we can convince folks that eating Lionfish increases penis size they'll be wiped out in a year!!


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Looking at this tracking map, it sure looks like they came in with the Gulf Stream and the Keys are covered as bad as we are. This link is related to one of the studies.

http://eattheinvaders.org/lionfish/


----------



## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

johnboatjosh said:


> If we can convince folks that eating Lionfish increases penis size they'll be wiped out in a year!!


They are a serious problem and I'm as concerned as everyone else but you have to admit that this is funny. If a market can be developed for them and there's some money to be made at it I believe a serious dent will be made in the population in short order. Its a sad but true fact. Money has the power to destroy a lot of stuff and it just might work to our advantage this time.


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

No problem, all we need to discover is the bait or jig they will take and we can catch our two Red Snapper and then fill the fish box with these buggers. It would be like having a bream fish fry kind of sort of.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Firefish, Mother nature doesn't destroy ecosystems she creates and regulates them.


----------



## coolbluestreak (Jun 27, 2011)

Kim said:


> It would be like having a bream fish fry kind of sort of.


But with a better tasting fish.:yes:



flappininthebreeze said:


> The reproduction model is they release an egg mass, as often as every 4 days, which drifts down current for a few days until it breaks up, scattering LF fry on the nearest structure, where they stay, and repeat the cycle.


I wondered about that, that explanes a lot. Thanks!
I don't read much of the info that comes out anymore since not a lot about LF has changed in the last few years other than the increase in thier population. I just like to shoot-kill-eat them. 



flappininthebreeze said:


> The economics can work. Fishermen can't afford to hire divers to clean their sites. Divers DO want to hunt the big fish, on their own dime, but will take a ride along to clean someone else's spots. It can work. Like I said the willing divers aren't looking for numbers, just Lionfish. A little trust and cooperation will go a long way.


My point exactly, everybody wins and eats fish in the process.


----------



## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

sealark said:


> Firefish, Mother nature doesn't destroy ecosystems she creates and regulates them.


I respectfully disagree.
True - the ecosystem isn't "destroyed"....but it is fundamentally changed to the point that all the native species CAN be permanently wiped out. That is pretty much destroyed in my book.

This is a man made problem....Not one that nature initiated. WE transplanted these things to an area that could not cope with them. We may or may not be able to fix it. I hope we can at least dampen the blow to the fishery and the jobs/recreation that it supports.

I wouldn't set fire to a forest and then say "nature will figure it out"....I'd at least TRY to put it out - since I would be responsible for the loss of the resource.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Only time will tell whos assumption is correct. Most likely neither you or especially me will be here to find out. Like I said before what have the lionfish done so harmful in the red sea area? I dove off Africa and Madagaskar and saw many lionfish and game fish together.
Good for you for trying to improve the environment. There is already good coming from them. I have eaten some and they are really good. Even been stuck by them, hot water from my e-tec pee hole worked great to break down the protein poison.


----------



## DawnsKayBug (Jul 24, 2013)

They are in Guam but you see one every 50 yards. Nothing like in that pic.. That pic is scary..


----------



## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

Mother Nature doesn't give a shit. This will eventually work itself out when the LF become the dominant species on artificial reefs and are only limited by the available food supply.


----------



## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

Kim said:


> Looking at this tracking map, it sure looks like they came in with the Gulf Stream and the Keys are covered as bad as we are. This link is related to one of the studies.
> 
> http://eattheinvaders.org/lionfish/



I dive off Ft lauderdale at least once a month. And have made about 15 dives anywhere from W Palm south to Hallendale this year also. I see a few of these but not many at all as is indicated on the map.


----------



## flappininthebreeze (Jul 13, 2009)

*Lionfish*



snake 166 said:


> Mother Nature doesn't give a shit. This will eventually work itself out when the LF become the dominant species on artificial reefs and are only limited by the available food supply.


That would be right after they decimate grouper, snapper, and most everything else, right? I'd rather not wait for that, thanks.


----------



## samoajoe (Dec 28, 2010)

Growing up on the island where these lionfish are native and food was plentiful, this sort of population explosion was and is never a problem. Seeing one or two was all you ever saw. There's possibly a difference in the ecology far beyond potential predators. Still, this is a horrible invasion.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Snake, you just described what mother nature is. I hope you didn't think she was a real person watching the reefs......


----------



## Lil' Scout (Oct 1, 2007)

sealark said:


> Snake, you just described what mother nature is. I hope you didn't think she was a real person watching the reefs......


 Sooo...you're saying that the woman in the old Chiffon Margerine commercials was a hoax???:blink:


----------



## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey Sealark----Mother Nature is genes. The engine of evolution. Genes mutate and give rise to new models, some live some don't. In the case of LF they are genetically adapted to the warm Pacific. In the Atlantic they have no enemies and their food doesn't fear them. We have lots of invasives--plants and animals but few have taken off like these LF in the gulf. Need to take this seriously at the highest levels---National Research Council--dedicated research program--but hands on too like the divers and fishermen who, to their credit, have acted on their own initiative to experiment with the means of control available to them.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

No kidding you better read ALL my previous posts.


----------



## Hydro Therapy 2 (Sep 11, 2008)

good job


----------



## Chasin' Tales (Oct 2, 2007)

Need one of these:
http://inserbia.info/news/2013/10/ads-worlds-first-underwater-machine-gun-revealed/


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Chasin' Tales said:


> Need one of these:
> http://inserbia.info/news/2013/10/ads-worlds-first-underwater-machine-gun-revealed/


It would be covered as an explosive or powerhead and is banned in Florida waters. Although it shouldn't be because it would be a much cleaner kill than a spear gun. But what would common sense have to do with a law :thumbup:


----------

