# ID of lesser vs greater AJ?



## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

I saw on 07 thread about this. Seems the ID is tough at best.

Counting gill rakers was "best guess." How many on a lesser? How many on a greater?

Is there a better way to ID?


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## Duke S (Nov 26, 2011)

if you see them side by side it is easier to distinguish. Lessers are a stouter fish, more depth to length, greaters are leaner/longer. The proportional eye size is important- lessors have a large eye, ~ equal to the distance from the snout to eye, Greaters have a proportionally smaller eye, much less than the distance from snout to eye. lessers are rare up this way, never reach large size.


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## Jack Hexter (Oct 2, 2007)

Try this


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## REEL STAMAS (Jan 27, 2008)

I never cared (released them all) until I kept & ate an Almaco... I then realized I cared since Almacos are excellent eating (pretty white meat & very tasty- unlike AJs IMO)


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks Jack Hexter.
You just confirmed that I will only shoot a greater or almaco. 
That chart reads like one zero one one zero lol!

I shot an almaco, then we pulled one up on rod and reel that I was pretty sure was almaco. After scrutiny, it had a slight difference in front dorsal and rear dorsal compared to the almaco. Also the color was different (pronounced yellow lateral on the fish in question). Not willing to bet $500 on it, we threw it back.

Thanks for the chart.


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## Tail Chaser (Jun 22, 2008)

dont know if you are from around Pcola 
I realize this forum reaches pretty far away from this area
so this might not help you as much as it did me
but this made it easier for me in my identification of the lesser versus the greater
I was told by a fish biologist (dont know if thats the correct title) that we dont see them this far up


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## saltwater redneck (Aug 8, 2011)

i dont mean to hijack this thread but can any one tell me what the locals in destin call an AMBEREEN ?? i was on the docks saturday as a charter boat was unloading its catch and they had tubs full of small looking amberjack i had a fellow fisherman with me and we both thought they were to small aj's. i asked around and was told they were ambereen's ?? i cant find them in my fish i.d. book ??


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

ambereen and lesser are the same fish


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## GROUPAGROUPAGROUPA (Apr 6, 2008)

ambereen (spelling?) and banded rudderfish are the same


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## saltwater redneck (Aug 8, 2011)

lol ok so far i have been told ambereen's are every jack in the book .......google here i come


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

sbarrow said:


> ambereen and lesser are the same fish


i catch lesser jacks all the time, there not banded rudder fish.

Just remember this lesser jacks have REALLY BIG EYES, no mistaking them:thumbsup:

you will never catch a lesser bigger then two pounds


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Good luck convincing FWC that your small jack is a lesser and not a greater. They only have one in their book.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> Good luck convincing FWC that your small jack is a lesser and not a greater. They only have one in their book.


If you had a marine biologist *and* a lawyer onboard you would probably have about a 40%-50% chance of not getting a ticket.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Play'N Hooky said:


> If you had a marine biologist *and* a lawyer onboard you would probably have about a 40%-50% chance of not getting a ticket.


+1 :thumbup:


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## REEL STAMAS (Jan 27, 2008)

Amberine/Ambereen is a (Banded) Rudderfish... As said earlier, we don't get (many if any) lesser AJs up here off the Pan'handle


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## saltwater redneck (Aug 8, 2011)

ok my wife works at a bank and one of her customers is a boat captian in destin he came in today and she asked him about ambereens( not sure of the spelling) he told her it was lesser amberjacks.......... i have a call in to the fwc waiting on a call back .


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## fishheadspin (Jun 9, 2008)

pretty sure that Amberines are lesser amberjacks. i have been told that on several occassions by boat captains on the Atlantic and gulf sides of Fl. Also Amberines have a faint yellow/green (almost chartreuse) stripe down the side.

and unless 90% of boat captains in Destin are wrong, there are plenty of lesser amberjacks around.


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## saltwater redneck (Aug 8, 2011)

fishheadspin said:


> pretty sure that amberines are lesser amberjacks. I have been told that on several occassions by boat captains on the atlantic and gulf sides of fl. Also amberines have a faint yellow/green (almost chartreuse) stripe down the side.
> 
> And unless 90% of boat captains in destin are wrong, there are plenty of lesser amberjacks around.


 +1 all the ones i saw on the docks sunday had a yellow stripe


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## osborne311 (Aug 1, 2011)

Are those juvenile snapper? Viewing on the phone so forgive me if its obviously not. lol


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## saltwater redneck (Aug 8, 2011)

osborne311 said:


> are those juvenile snapper? Viewing on the phone so forgive me if its obviously not. Lol


i think they are white snapper, I CAUGHT A FEW JUVINILE RED SNAPPER IN THE BAY THIS YEAR AND THEY HAD DISTINCT VERTICAL STRIPES............. correction red porgies not white snapper from what i was told no such thing as white snapper


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## osborne311 (Aug 1, 2011)

Was going to say. If those were all illegal fish I am surprised he did not tackle you when you took the photo. lol


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

The majority of _Seriola _jacks that are caught in this area are Greater Amberjacks. Lesser amberjacks (_Seriola fasciata_) are found farther offshore and are few and far between, so ecological factors come into play in the identification of a jack. 
Yes, there is a difference between the number of gill rakers in Greater Amberjack (_Seriola dumerili_) and Lesser Amberjack- Greaters have fewer at 11-19 and Lessers have 21-24, but that feature is pretty much impossible to see, much less count, on a thrashing fish at the side of a boat. The eye size in relation to the body size is the fastest and easiest field character to see, and the location of the eye stripe can help but color is not always a reliable trait. Lesser Amberjacks have a very large eye (more than half as wide as the length of the snout), and the eye stripe is usually fainter in color and reaches just to the first dorsal fin. The Greater Amberjack has a much smaller eye in relation to the body size, and the eye stripe is usually darker and runs into the first dorsal fin. Again, color is NOT the most reliable way to ID. Check out the comparison of the two in the attached photos.

The first attachment (fish I'm holding) is a Greater Amberjack, and the second (fish on the board) is a Lesser Amberjack.

As for the other fish names, there is no such fish as an "Amberine"- that is just a slang name given to pretty much all small/juvenile _Seriola _jacks.

I have a file that we produced to help tell the difference between the _Seriola _species (it's posted at some of our local boat ramps). It is too large to attach, so if you want it and your email can take a 545KB file, PM me your email address and I'll be happy to send it out.


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## saltwater redneck (Aug 8, 2011)

Coryphaena said:


> The majority of _Seriola _jacks that are caught in this area are Greater Amberjacks. Lesser amberjacks (_Seriola fasciata_) are found farther offshore and are few and far between, so ecological factors come into play in the identification of a jack.
> Yes, there is a difference between the number of gill rakers in Greater Amberjack (_Seriola dumerili_) and Lesser Amberjack- Greaters have fewer at 11-19 and Lessers have 21-24, but that feature is pretty much impossible to see, much less count, on a thrashing fish at the side of a boat. The eye size in relation to the body size is the fastest and easiest field character to see, and the location of the eye stripe can help but color is not always a reliable trait. Lesser Amberjacks have a very large eye (more than half as wide as the length of the snout), and the eye stripe is usually fainter in color and reaches just to the first dorsal fin. The Greater Amberjack has a much smaller eye in relation to the body size, and the eye stripe is usually darker and runs into the first dorsal fin. Again, color is NOT the most reliable way to ID. Check out the comparison of the two in the attached photos.
> 
> The first attachment (fish I'm holding) is a Greater Amberjack, and the second (fish on the board) is a Lesser Amberjack.
> ...


in your opinion what are the fish in the pic that i posted on pg 1. judging by the pics you posted they look like greater amberjack to me the eyes are not big enough.


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## REEL STAMAS (Jan 27, 2008)

Those same boat captains (& mates) that think they're catching Lesser AJs will tell you that you can safely deflate a deep water fish by puncturing the air bladder (actually the stomach) that is poking out of the fish's mouth (which actually injures & usually kills the fish w/in a few days). Since the fish swims away they're convinced they're right...


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for those pics Coryphaena.

That just assured me that what I threw back was a juvie Greater AJ. The eye size was not that pronounced.

The fin pattern was so close to the almaco, I went with color (yellow stripe on fish I threw back). Fish I kept was certainly an almaco. 

I will no longer "think" it may be a lesser. Probably just throw 'em back.

Who needs the hassle when you have 75+ lbs of AJ already in the bag.:thumbsup:


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

saltwater ******* said:


> in your opinion what are the fish in the pic that i posted on pg 1


The only fish that I am going to give you a 100% certain ID on from that photo are the Red Porgies (there is no such fish as a "white snapper" either). The way those jacks are positioned in the picture, the features necessary to positively ID them aren't showing. The jack lowest in the photo shows up the best, but again there are features that just don't have good resolution in a small photo. I can say that the ones I can see well are not almaco jacks. 
I promise you I am not being vague or holding out on information. Part of my job is to identify fish correctly- I don't have room to just speculate- I have to be on the money.


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

Tried to attach this to my former post....
FYI, this is a juvenile Greater Amberjack for comparison. Note the size of the eye, and also note that the length of the anal fin along the body is about 2/3 as long as the length of the dorsal fin along the body. If it were a banded rudderfish (often confused with small Greaters), the anal fin would only be about half as long as the length of the dorsal fin.

And Salt Addict, I like the way you think! If it's bigger than about 24", and it's not an Almaco Jack, it's most likely a Greater Amberjack.


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## Tail Chaser (Jun 22, 2008)

Coryphaena sent ya PM for more info on the seriolas
thanx for the informative answers as always


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

Here is a good picture comparison!!!!


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## osborne311 (Aug 1, 2011)

Jason - so that is a lesser and greater side by side? It looks to me as if the lateral front fin is the easiest way to identify if you catch a single fish with nothing to compare it to. I thought from the other photo's that it would be the eye size but to me, those eyes do not look that different at all between the two fish you have pictured. However, the front side fin is pointed on the greater and blunt on the lesser. That would be an easy id in my book.


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

Jason said:


> Here is a good picture comparison!!!!
> 
> View attachment 37341


Jason, that is a good picture of an Almaco jack (top) and a Greater Amberjack (bottom). The anal fin on both fish is about 2/3 as long as the 2nd dorsal fin- the trait found in 3 of our 4 _Seriola _jack species (found in Greater, Lesser, and Almaco jacks but not the banded rudderfish). Look at the top fish and you'll see that its second dorsal fin is high and hooked, and its body is comparatively deep- those traits mark it as an Almaco Jack. The bottom fish has a short 2nd dorsal and a small eye which make it a Greater Amberjack.
That photo shows ID traits very well. The only other thing that would seal the deal on the ID would be if I could see the first gill arches of the fish.


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