# neat site on what bullet is BETTER



## chevelle427 (Feb 6, 2011)

CHECK OUT THE 
Relative Stopping Power Stopping Power Calculator at the bottom

Handgun Ammo Stopping Power

All of us have been exposed to the varying theories regarding which type of handgun bullet is best for defensive purposes. Some proponents (Dr. Julian Hatcher) believed that "bigger is better" while the National Institute of Justice performed a "computer man" study a number of years ago which suggested that light and fast bullets achieved the most lethal results.

As more and more data becomes available, theories change. Evan Marshall wrote definitive studies in 1992, 1996 and 2000 after examining the results of thousands of actual shootings. His conclusions came as a result of actual shootings and not from firing bullets into wet newspaper, gelatin or some other artificial medium.edium.

His data is based on "one shot stops". This is defined as: 1. a single hit to anywhere on the body not counting the head, neck or extremity shot: 2. when a subject stops shooting or striking blows if that was what he was doing and 3. runs no more than 10 feet before collapsing. In other words, Marshall’s studies examine what happens in the first few seconds after a shooting.

In the past decade, major advances have been made in bullet design which adds to the lethality of the projectile. Every major US bullet manufacturer has their own proprietary projective which they claim is best for the job at hand. New calibers such as the 357 SIG have appeared on the scene while more data has been accumulated on relatively new bullets such as the 40 Smith & Wesson. Marshall’s newest study takes these events into consideration.

32 ACP - Most of the smaller caliber firearms such as this caliber and the .380 ACP are carried as "back-up" guns by law enforcement thus the increase in data from actual police shootings. The CorBon 62 gr. JHP round was involved in 17 shootings with 11 one shot stops which achieved a 65% rating followed closely by the Winchester 60 grain Silvertip which was fired 162 times and caused 104 stops for a 64% rating. The Federal 65 grain Hydra-Shok and the CCI 60 grain Gold Dot achieved one shot stops 63% and 60% of the time.

380 ACP - The top rounds in this category were the Federal 90 grain Hydra-Shok and the CorBon 90 grain JHP+P which both rated a 70% one shot stop rating. While Federal 90 grain FMJ ammo was used in a whopping 245 shootings, it only achieved 55% one shot stops.

38 Special - With the introduction of semi-auto pistols, this caliber was relegated to secondary status. This data is from 2 and 3 inch revolvers which limit muzzle velocity & therefore results are less than other comparable calibers. Both the Winchester and Federal 158 grain LHP+P offerings were involved in 158 shootings with the Winchester round making 121 single shot stops for a 68% rating and the Federal loading making 120 one shot stops for a 67% rating. Most all of the 16 loadings examined fell in the 60 percent range with the Federal 125 grain Nyclad LHP+P round earning a 61% rating. It’s clear than the long-used 158 grain lead hollowpoint pushed to +P pressures is the best round for this caliber.

357 Magnum - Once the king of law enforcement handguns, this caliber has also been replaced by large capacity auto-pistols. The data collected for this caliber came from 2 and 3 inch revolvers, not the longer barreled type. The top round was the Remington 124 grain JHP followed by the same loading by Federal. Both loads achieved a 91% one hit stop rating. Most other loads ranked in the 80% area with the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok achieving a 78% rating.

357 SIG - This is the most current law enforcement cartridge and therefore, shooting data is limited. The top rated cartridges were the Remington and Federal 125 grain JHPs. Both were rated at 91% one shot stops. Of the 9 loads evaluated, the poorest was the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok which was involved in 41 shootings with 32 one shot stops for a 78% rating.

9mm - This was the first semiauto pistol to be used extensively by police agencies and replaced the 38 Special and 357 Magnum round. Early loadings of the 147 grain round caused major stopping problems however current 147 grain designs are vastly superior. Clearly the best 9mm loads are those driven to +P+ pressures. Of the 20 loadings evaluated, the top load was the Federal 115 grain JHP +P+ involved in 209 shootings with 190 one shot stops for a 91% rating. The Winchester 115 grain JHP +P+ and 127 grain Ranger SXT +P+ both had 90% one shot stops. All five loads driven to +P+ pressures ranked in the top 5 followed by all bullets loaded to +P pressures. Rounds manufactured to standard pressure ratings comprised the bottom 12 loadings in the study.

40 S&W - This caliber has become extremely popular with law enforcement agencies due to the perceived deficiencies of the 9mm round. All manufacturers have at least 2 loadings of this caliber and it has served very well. The Remington 165 grain Golden Saber was used in 311 shootings and made 292 one shot stops for a 94% rating followed closely by the CCI 165 and 155 grain loadings and the Federal 155 grain Hydra-Shok bullet. These 3 loads made 93% one shot stops. Other manufacturers loads in the 90% range were the Federal 155 grain JHP and the CorBon 135 and 150 grain JHP bullets. Thirteen other loadings were evaluated with the poorest being the Winchester 180 grain FMJ that was involved in 134 encounters and made 95 (71%) one shot stops.

45 ACP - This caliber has been around for almost 100 years and is still the top rated round. More police agencies are using this round due to its proven stopping ability. The large diameter, heavy bullet is the basis for the "momentum" theory of stopping power however actual results in shootings show a mix of "light and fast" and "slow and heavy" rounds. The Remington 185 grain Golden Saber was involved in 148 shootings and caused 142 one shot stops for a 96% rating followed closely by the Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok which caused 200 one shot stops in 211 shootings for a 95% rating. Eight of the 16 loadings examined rated above 90% one shot stops while 5 others rated in the 80s. The poorest stoppers were the Remington, Federal and Winchester 230 grain FMJ rounds which achieved 62% one shot stops.

It’s difficult to say that one type of bullet is best for all calibers and, in fact, these study results show that the best results come from a mix of heavy to light bullets which defy most theories. It is clear however that some loadings are much better than others and the decision is ours with respect to which we choose.


http://www.abaris.net/info/ballistics/handgun-stopping-power.htm
Relative Stopping Power Stopping Power Calculator


http://www.abaris.net/info/ballistics/rsp.aspx
http://www.abaris.net/info/ballistics/hatcher-table.htm


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## snapperfan (Aug 30, 2009)

chevelle427 said:


> 45 ACP - This caliber has been around for almost 100 years and is still the top rated round.


nuff said.


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## snapperfan (Aug 30, 2009)

good info. Thanks for posting.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

First question I would ask is WHO is trained for a 1 shot stop? How many of theses were 1 shot and no other shots? Where did the shot hit, who was the shooter, the bad guy, a LEO or a carry permit holder, years of training? I was trained to double tap, who was trained to shoot once and stop shooting? Anyway, nice thoughts and study, interesting facts dug up and thanks for sharing. I see the obvious flaws but the data can easily be manipulated by the author. " Nothing really said " Keep practicing guys and hopefully you are not a 1 shot wonder...lolo


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## chevelle427 (Feb 6, 2011)

i have been told all the time 2 shot minimum


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

Uhh, just keep shooting till your attacker stops.

Also, I find bullet design to be the most critical factor in stopping power. You can have great velocity, but if it fails to impart some energy it's useless. The site you linked really doesn't have anything to say about bullet design.

I use this site as a quick concise reference on which loads are good and some good background on wound ballistics. Notice how the big three calibers 9mm, .40 and .45 all have similar wound profiles. I prefer 9mm since it's a much more carry efficient caliber than say .45. They all get the job done, but just in a different manner. 9mm is fast and light while .45 is slow and heavy.

I personally carry 9mm Speer Gold Dot 147gr in a G26. Some would question why 147gr vs 124+P, but after examining both load's wound ballistics they are quite similar and the 147 actually penetrates slightly more. Also, 147gr has less recoil which means quicker follow up shots. I'm thinking about switching over to Federal HST which is regarded as the next generation in bullet design.


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## chevelle427 (Feb 6, 2011)

Gravity3694 said:


> Uhh, just keep shooting till your attacker stops.
> 
> Also, I find bullet design to be the most critical factor in stopping power. You can have great velocity, but if it fails to impart some energy it's useless. The site you linked really doesn't have anything to say about bullet design.
> 
> ...


the whole c&p page talks about bullet design.
bullets have come along way in 30 years, back 30 years i did not care for a 9mm at all :no: and sold the ones i had , i now have 3 9mm back in the collection.:yes:

bottom line i guess is *SHOT PLACEMENT* then most anything can be stopped with 1 shot :whistling:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Why not have the best of both theories? Shoot big and fast - the 10mm Auto!


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

scubapro said:


> Why not have the best of both theories? Shoot big and fast - the 10mm Auto!


+1:thumbup::thumbup:

And empty the clip. I'm not going to wait and see if my first shot stopped them.


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## chevelle427 (Feb 6, 2011)

MrFish said:


> +1:thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> And empty the clip. * I'm not going to wait and see if my first shot stopped them*.


*sooooo true*


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## chevelle427 (Feb 6, 2011)

MrFish said:


> +1:thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> And empty the clip. * I'm not going to wait and see if my first shot stopped them*.


*sooooo true*



scubapro said:


> Why not have the best of both theories? Shoot big and fast - the 10mm Auto!


now you know the 10mm is a MANS gun. the FBI couldn't handle all that power :whistling:


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## snapperfan (Aug 30, 2009)

scubapro said:


> Why not have the best of both theories? Shoot big and fast - the 10mm Auto!


Next on my wish list is a 1911 in .460 Rowland. Bigger and faster.


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

scubapro said:


> Why not have the best of both theories? Shoot big and fast - the 10mm Auto!


Too bad that most 10mm factory ammo including the defensive loads are somewhat downloaded to the level of a hot .40. Double Tap Ammo makes the hottest 10mm factory ammo that I know of. You can also handload of course.


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Hatcher's Notebook (Of Relative Stopping Power)*

If the above was taken from the above,I have a copy and it was written some time ago. The research was done on police(and other that could be well documented)shootings in which the target/threat was cancelled after ONE SHOT. 

I believe this to be the most well thought out and researched info.....FOR THE TIME PERIOD. We all have to remember that back during when most of the info was compiled the bullets,powders,firearms,and training simply(for the most part) did not exist. Still.....personally,I believe that this book is THE definitive writing on the subject,even today. Hatchers tests and compiled info brought to light probably the most famous fight stoppers of all time(arguably even today),the 125gr,.357" bullet,@ 1450fps. Better known as a 357Mag with a 6" bbl.

I had a short conversation with a firearms trainer the other day. We were starting to get into the advantages(me) and disadvantages(him)of a 9mm as your CCW. Our probably respectful debate was cut short by our surroundings but I was just about to launch into the double tap(controlled pairs)thing. Back in the day when I was a firearms trainer for the military I always taught never shoot one,ease your stance,and take a look. The BG is still standing(given only one threat),shoot him to the ground. This of course is easier taught with a hi-cap pistol rather that a "six shooter". A controlled pair into COM with a well designed .355cal bullet is equal to_____?? Do the math. FPE if you wish but TWO holes to induce trauma,reduce the BP to zero,most possibly sever the spinal chord or "simply" create enough hydrostatic shock to disrupt it. This ='s threat cancelled.

Firearms training has always been,and always will be,a controversial subject. We all have our thoughts on the subject. Personally,I am a big believer in, be prepared to cancel the threat,have resolve in your actions,know the law and how it pertains to your individual situation,"fight like you train". 

Good luck to us all. --- SAWMAN


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