# Know your regulations



## Corpsman (Oct 3, 2007)

I always print out the latest and greatest from the FWC and keep it on the boat. Things change so fast these days you can't be to careful. I love playing the game, but I hate how they keep changing the rules on us. 



http://www.wftv.com/news/20043088/detail.html


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## kelly1 (Oct 1, 2007)

Regulations in Florida suck. Makes me want to give up fishing all together. And apparently the prosecutor had nothing better to do. Why don't she go prosecute some of the real criminals


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## Speckulator (Oct 3, 2007)

The 33" to the fork regulation has been in effect for quite a # of years. It's a FEDERAL regulation...not a state regulation.....It applies to everyone who fishes in the GOM and the Atlantic.... Ignorance is no excuse....

George


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

+1 on the "Ignorance is no excuse..." comment. However, given the circumstancesin this case, a fine would have been sufficient. No reason to subject the man to this humiliation and extra expenses. Also, this was a gross waste of the court's time.No wonderthe prosecutor declined an interview. :doh :banghead


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## Quint (Aug 27, 2008)

I got nailedfor the same mistake about five years ago. When I explained my mistake to the judge, he threw out the fine and only made me pay$25 in court costs. I still have the charge on my record though. Oh well, live and learn...


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Speckulator (7/14/2009)*The 33" to the fork regulation has been in effect for quite a # of years. It's a FEDERAL regulation...not a state regulation.....It applies to everyone who fishes in the GOM and the Atlantic.... Ignorance is no excuse....
> 
> George


However your statement..yes is true, but a zealous prosecutor taking this to trial is BS. A fine and on your way would of been more beneficial for all taxpayers. You can be a politician, cheat on your taxes by THOUSANDS of dollars year in and year out, and not so much get a slap on the wrist...hell you might even get a better position in government. In fact this case was such a well balanced case the prosecutor wouldn't even make a statement...I'm thinking, she knows she FU.:doh


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Speckulator (7/14/2009)*The 33" to the fork regulation has been in effect for quite a # of years. It's a FEDERAL regulation...not a state regulation.....It applies to everyone who fishes in the GOM and the Atlantic.... Ignorance is no excuse....
> 
> George


I can not tell you the number of people that have been on my boat and tried to measure a fish in total length when it needs to be a fork measurment. I would bet that even many people on here would not know that trigger fish are measured to the fork and not total length. I have corrected many people on that one. People make honest mistakes. Does that mean they should get off scott free. Nope. Does that mean they should be taken to the cleaners. Absolutely not. The guy owned up for a fish he didn't even catch and admitted his dumb mistake. Give the guy a normal fine and be done with it. How much did it cost to prosecute the guy in lawyer salaries etc... Probably a lot more than the $2000.00 the guy paid in fees.:banghead:banghead Ignorance of the law is no excuse at all. But common sense should prevail when it comes to enforcement and fines etc...


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *Speckulator (7/14/2009)*The 33" to the fork regulation has been in effect for quite a # of years. It's a FEDERAL regulation...not a state regulation.....It applies to everyone who fishes in the GOM and the Atlantic.... Ignorance is no excuse....
> 
> George





> *Orion45 (7/14/2009)*+1 on the "Ignorance is no excuse..." comment. However, given the circumstancesin this case, a fine would have been sufficient. No reason to subject the man to this humiliation and extra expenses. Also, this was a gross waste of the court's time.No wonderthe prosecutor declined an interview. :doh :banghead


You're both assuming ignorance on a case that looks like a simple mistake. Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't make them ignorant. The laws in Florida suck ass, you have to have a binder in your boat just to decipher the laws and know which fish you measure to the fork and which fish you measure to the tail, B.S. Adjust the regs to compensate the lengths so that all fish can be measured to the fork or the tail but don't have some one way and some the other way. What crap! :hoppingmad


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

Common sense would dictate that measurement (how to) of ALL fish be standard...not some total length and some to the fork.








Viking, I didn't see your post till I saw mine posted...thinking alike:clap


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## bluffman2 (Nov 22, 2007)

> *Telum Piscis (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Speckulator (7/14/2009)*The 33" to the fork regulation has been in effect for quite a # of years. It's a FEDERAL regulation...not a state regulation.....It applies to everyone who fishes in the GOM and the Atlantic.... Ignorance is no excuse....
> ...


over here triggers are measured total length.....i think alabama is the same


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## countryjwh (Nov 20, 2007)

> *bluffman2 (7/14/2009)*
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> 
> > *Telum Piscis (7/14/2009)*
> ...


changed to 14 FL


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *bluffman2 (7/14/2009)*
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> 
> > *Telum Piscis (7/14/2009)*
> ...


Alabama...12" total length


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *Tuna Man (7/14/2009)*Common sense would dictate that measurement (how to) of ALL fish be standard...not some total length and some to the fork.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah the problem is common sense wouldn't make them as much money. I honestly think FL did it that way to create confusion so that they always had a chance to catch somebody making the wrong measurement, such B.S. like I said before.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Tuna Man (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *bluffman2 (7/14/2009)*
> ...


Ron, look it up again there buddy. See even our resident PFF expert can't keep up with the regs.oke

http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/saltwater/regulations/creel_limits.pdf


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## swhiting (Oct 4, 2007)

Since the state enforces federal regulations too, it should be a requirement for them to maintain a current, online publication of both regulations. They get paid by us to know it, so they can enforce it. THE LEAST THEY CAN DO IS SUMMARIZE IT FOR US AND PUBLISH A COMBINED, CURRENT DOCUMENT!!!!!!



Yes I know it's 2 different levels of government. Yes I know where to find them. Yes I know I started a different post about this a long time ago...... but I refuse to accept government agencies pointing fingers at one another saying it's the others' job or it's my job to promulgate my own lists.... not to mention, I totally agree with ONE measurement rule.


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## bluffman2 (Nov 22, 2007)

MS says 12 inch fork length, but i think their web page hasnt been updated....i think its suppose to be 14 inches to fork length......


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

http://myfwc.com/docs/RulesRegulations/2009_July_RegsSummary_Chart.pdf

updated July 09


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Telum Piscis (7/14/2009)*
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> 
> > *Tuna Man (7/14/2009)*
> ...


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## Instant Karma (Oct 9, 2007)

Don't all Fish and Game offenses have to go before a judge? Not like a traffic ticket where there is a set fine. At least that is the way it is in AL, I think.



Funny thing the TV people made it seem like this guy was getting unusually harsh treatment by having to go to court...Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.



And I agree, you almost need a lawyer to go fishing these days.


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## wrightackle (Oct 29, 2007)

People like Speckulator make me sick to my stomach. Several years ago I got a ticket for a grouper that was short. The size limit had been raised the previous month and I was unaware of it. Went to court [wearing my wright tackle work shirt] explained the situation to the judge and he threw the ticket out with no court fee. Basic common sense prevailed. This instilled in me a long standing disgust with the FWC. They are a complete waste of taxpayer money. And now they are going to get a fresh infusion of money from the new licenses so there will be more of them running around harassing people who are just trying to catch some fish for dinner. What a chicken$hit country this has become.


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## Instant Karma (Oct 9, 2007)

I agree with wrighttackle. Too many gung ho Water Patrol guys just itching to give out a ticket. Too many on a Power trip.



You see more Marine Police at Perdido Pass Thank you do Troopers in 200 miles of interstate...


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

I hate to have anyone think I am one of those conspiracy theory guys, but this is what I think is REALLY happening.

We as a society are being systematically stripped of our rights. Not in a "shove it down your throat" kind of way, but in more of a "planned social engineering" kind of way.

The surest way to increase tax revenue is to ensure you have to buy all your commodities. When was the last time you heard of a government agency that was pro-active in helping someone grow their own food or any other self-sustainable activity??? 

By making the regulations virtually impossible to discern, the politicians are making it that much harder for the average person to feed their family without buying the food at the supermarket/restaurant. Think about it.:doh

Commercial fisherman pays license fee for the year: TAX MONEY!:hotsun

Fish are sold to cannery/wholesale distributor: TAX MONEY!:hotsun

Distributor sells to chain restaurant/supermarket: TAX MONEY!:hotsun

Restaurant/supermarket sells it to Joe Blow: TAX MONEY!!:boo

Versus the alternative......................

Joe Blow pays small fee for fishing license (7.50 for the shore) and feeds his family.:bowdown

All I am saying is that you can usually find the reason for motivation for most problems in life by following the money trail, and this one is pretty cut and dried.:banghead


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Instant Karma (7/14/2009)*Don't all Fish and Game offenses have to go before a judge? Not like a traffic ticket where there is a set fine. At least that is the way it is in AL, I think.
> 
> Funny thing the TV people made it seem like this guy was getting unusually harsh treatment by having to go to court...Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
> 
> And I agree, you almost need a lawyer to go fishing these days.


An educated reply would be yes for these reasons. 1) Fines are not set to one figure..ie up to say $1,000.00.. 2) They also have a provision of "up to" jail time. There may be others but those two alone would lead me to believe...yes in front of a judge.


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

btw, florida, gulf of mexico, 14 inches TO FORK. i dont see why this is so confusing.


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## Speckulator (Oct 3, 2007)

Wrighttackle-----You make me sick too!!!!!!!

I made a comment that the regulation was a federal regulation not a state regulation....It has been in effect for several years not last week or last month.....The regulation is for the WHOLE GOM and the Atlantic.....not just the state of FL......If you don't like the regulation, take it up with the feds....Again IGNORANCE is no excuse......any lawyer or judge will tell you that.....I didn't comment on the case...just the regs.....

BTW--A fine should have been enough.....

George


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

I wouldn't trust the accuracy of this article too much anyway. its titled 'Man Arrested for Oversized fish'



then it goes on to say he was merely cited to appear in court, not arrested. also, the fish was accused undersized.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

> *Jhoe (7/14/2009)*I wouldn't trust the accuracy of this article too much anyway. its titled 'Man Arrested for Oversized fish'
> 
> then it goes on to say he was merely cited to appear in court, not arrested. also, the fish was accused undersized.


I also wouldn't doubt that there is more to it than what was stated in the article. He may have felt that he could "educate" the wildlife officer on how to do his job or he and the officer may have had history. Never heard the other side of the story. He also might have felt that the judge needed "educating" and attempted to offer his expert opinion on how the legal system is suppose to work.


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

> *alanbarck (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Jhoe (7/14/2009)*I wouldn't trust the accuracy of this article too much anyway. its titled 'Man Arrested for Oversized fish'
> ...




Not to mention, everyone is saying the state wasted their time taking him to court. However, it sounds to me like he went in there with a half thought out defense to use a compass on a picture to somehow prove the fish was legal. I have no doubt that he chose to plead innocent and take the thing to trial hoping the state would drop the charges. Unless you kill someone, the state almost NEVER tries to get you to go to trial. they'd rather you plead guilty or no contest for a reduced sentence and less hassle by them.


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## ballr4lyf (Jul 4, 2009)

> *alanbarck (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Jhoe (7/14/2009)*I wouldn't trust the accuracy of this article too much anyway. its titled 'Man Arrested for Oversized fish'
> ...




I can't say that I agree with you here. Until proven otherwise, I'm inclined to believe the accused, as the FWC has not produced a person who has said something to the effect of what you described. In fact, the accused has already stated that the stop was a pleasant one (I imagine, as pleasant as it can be to get cited). 



As far as the issue is concerned, stick the guy with a fine but don't drag it to court!!! That's my money you're wasting!!! If the accused wants to contest the fine in court, then that's one story, but otherwise it's a waste of state/local/county funds to get a judge to look at a picture and say that "yes, 31 is less than 35"... NORLY?!?!?! Oh and while we're at it, we're paying the prosecutor for his/her time as well... And the bailiff/sheriff's deputy, the court reporter, the person in charge of maintaining court records, etc.... [facepalm]



Either way, if you believe that this was a misappropriation of government money that could have been used for better causes, then I would suggest writing the representative that holds public office... Or even go so far as writing Charlie Crist, I'm sure he would love to hear this story.


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

> *ballr4lyf (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *alanbarck (7/14/2009)*
> ...




My point there is that it appears to me the guy himself chose to fight the charge and take it to court. the article even said that he tried to prove the fish was of legal size. Seems to me he drug it to court and lost and is trying to make a big stink about it now.


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## countryjwh (Nov 20, 2007)

FYI just called marine conservation and they said that triggerfish is 14 " to the fork. 251 968 7576 they then told me to look at the website that tuna man posted and then i told them it was wrong. they said sorry but it is changes to 14 fl.


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

That was you on the phone just now?? LOL

We don't do website maintenance in Gulf Shores- it is done in Montgomery. Best to always call first.


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## countryjwh (Nov 20, 2007)

> *Coryphaena (7/14/2009)*That was you on the phone just now?? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> We don't do website maintenance in Gulf Shores- it is done in Montgomery. Best to always call first.


yep it was me. i heard her say karen and figured it was you.


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

That was Karen on the phone, I quoted her the regs... I'll try to get hold of a current AL regulationPDF file and get it posted.


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

Well if their website is currently wrong you could probably get it thrown out in court using that as their published information


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

> *Coryphaena (7/14/2009)*That was you on the phone just now?? LOL
> 
> We don't do website maintenance in Gulf Shores- it is done in Montgomery. *Best to always call first*.


Does that mean that everytime I catch a fish I need to call intoverify what the current regs are?oke

This last year in Florida after they had changed the rules on Red Snapper,Grouper, and Triggerfish I was leaving Gulf Breeze Bait and Tackle and grabbed a few of the Florida Regulation brochures to keep on the boat since I have not been able to commit all the regs to memory. The bochures were dated January 2009 but did not reflect the changed season on Red Snapper or the closed season on Grouper. If it had not been for me being a member of this forum and reading everybody's bitching about the rules changing I would have believed that I had a copy of the most recent regs. They don't change hunting seasons more than once a year, why are fishingregs any different?


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## Coryphaena (Oct 2, 2007)

It's correct... this is the regulation chart as listed on our website. Again, though, if unsure it is always better to check before you go.

http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/saltwater/regulations/limits/


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *69Viking (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Orion45 (7/14/2009)*+1 on the "Ignorance is no excuse..." comment. However, given the circumstancesin this case, a fine would have been sufficient. No reason to subject the man to this humiliation and extra expenses. Also, this was a gross waste of the court's time.No wonderthe prosecutor declined an interview. :doh :banghead
> ...


Easy there fella. No one accused anyone of being ignorant. Read my post again...after all, you quoted me twice. The statement '"ignorance of the law is no excuse" is valid. The regulations are clear and specific as to bag and size limits. If you're going fishing make sure you have the current regs.


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## rauber (Oct 10, 2007)

why is it so hard to get an updated fwc size limit chart before leaving to fish? tackle stores even make public notices on the windows to let people know the new rules. if you dont keep up with the rules its your fault. if you go fishing you have to be able to know the rules. its no excuse to say "but it always has been this way", or "i always measured it total length!" every rules is clearly marked on the fwc chart...... if you break the rule thats what you get for it. i got boarded several times working on charter boats and fwc went through literaly hundreds of fish. never had a problem as long as you do your homework


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

Thats the first thing I always do before I go fishing is to run down to the bait shop and read allthe sheets of paperposted on the windows.oke

I agree that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but why is it that the law cannot be more stable or uniform? How often do they change the bag limit or seasons on deer, turkey, and dove? Why are red snapper and grouper any different?


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *Orion45 (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *69Viking (7/14/2009)*
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Sorry about that, my original post should have also quoted Speckulator instead of you twice! My whole point on this is I don't think it was the captains ignorance that lead to this, he had others fishing on the boat that made a measurement and said it was good. Personally Imeasure every fish that comes on to my boatif it is to go in the icebox and I can assure you this captain will do the same from now on.

The problem with the regulations is obvious, they are all over the place. You have state regs, you have federal regs, you have regs that change in the middle of the year, you have to the tail, to the fork and then you have websites of the state regulations not being updated. The Alabama Trigger regulation is a perfect example, the website was wrong so people are suppose to make a phone call every time they go fishing, give me a break, the system is broke. If you are not a member of a forum like this how do you know about the midyear changes and how do you know about websites that are inaccurate?

I think they honestly are doing it this way to trick people into making mistakes so they can increase they're revenue! Think about, fishing seasons are getting so short now they havea lot less time tomake their quota for the year so they need to make up for in the short period of time people actually are fishing. I can honestly say I have fished less this year because of these crappy regulations and midyear changes. One of these days it just won't be worth it anymore. :hoppingmad


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *rauber (7/15/2009)*why is it so hard to get an updated fwc size limit chart before leaving to fish? tackle stores even make public notices on the windows to let people know the new rules. if you dont keep up with the rules its your fault. if you go fishing you have to be able to know the rules. its no excuse to say "but it always has been this way", or "i always measured it total length!" every rules is clearly marked on the fwc chart...... if you break the rule thats what you get for it. i got boarded several times working on charter boats and fwc went through literaly hundreds of fish. never had a problem as long as you do your homework


So every day before you fish you expect people to stop at the tackle store? I can't most of my bait myself and seldom go to the tackle store before I fish unless there is some tackle I actually need for that trip. Why is it that the regulations I picked up and printed out when I got my license are no good anymore? Why is it that they can't keep the regulations current on the websites? The system is broke and needs to be fixed. We don't change regulations in the middle of the hunting season, why so then in the middle of the fishing season, that is crap. 

I know people who fished for Snapper and took some home April 15th because they didn't hear about the rule change, they were stunned when I told them you couldn't keep snapper until June 1. I doubt if I hadn't been on this forum and had friends who fished that I would have know about it either, I had what I thought were good regulations printed out in February or March and laminated and then kept a copy at my desk and on my boat. Guess what, they were accurate for less than two months, that's crap. When the regulations come out Jan. 1 they shouldn't change until Jan. 1 of the following year. 

Again, why do you measure some fish to the fork and then some to the tip of the tail? Why not just make it to the fork and then adjust the others so that their legal length accounts for the change to the fork? Why do they have to make it so confusing? If you only fish a few times a year you won't remember which fish are to the fork and which are to the tip of the tail, yes you have to review the regs again but why, why can't they standardize it on one or the other?


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

heres my take...its not that difficult to know the regulations...somehow millions of people a year fish and the majority of them don't get tickets. as for over zealous prosecutors and a waste of tax dollars....if you get caught with over sized, under sized, out of season fish...you are arrested for a misdemeanor and given a notice to appear. so you have to go to court or atleast work out a plea agreement. this is fine by me, hopefully it cuts down on some of the people stealing from our resources and breaking the laws. Hell if all i got for keeping a 40" red was a fine I might risk it every now and then, but knowing that i'm going to have a criminal record because of it is a different story


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

I think the guy was made an example of for no good reason. Two grand plus the time and aggravation. 

Isn't the safest bet that, if the fish HAS a fork to assume you measure to the fork?

If you look through the regulations, how many forked-tailed fish aren't supposed to be fork-length measured?

Not many. If they don't have a fork it's obvious. And if you have to measure that close, you probably should toss it back anyway and try to catch a bigger one. Why "fork up" your day risking such a nightmare.


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *biggamefishr (7/15/2009)*heres my take...its not that difficult to know the regulations...somehow millions of people a year fish and the majority of them don't get tickets. as for over zealous prosecutors and a waste of tax dollars....if you get caught with over sized, under sized, out of season fish...you are arrested for a misdemeanor and given a notice to appear. so you have to go to court or atleast work out a plea agreement. this is fine by me, hopefully it cuts down on some of the people stealing from our resources and breaking the laws. Hell if all i got for keeping a 40" red was a fine I might risk it every now and then, but knowing that i'm going to have a criminal record because of it is a different story


Josh I can guarantee you a lot people still don't know about some of the changes, they have just been lucky not to get stopped. Twice this year already I have educated people after hearing there fishing story that what they did was illegal.

The first time was back in April over the weekend afterApril 15th, a guy was bragging about the Red Snapper he caught that Saturday and I told him the Snapper Season opened June 1st, not April 15th. He thought I was messing with him until I told him to look it up online. 

The second time a friend of mine shows up at another friends and shows me this nice Amberjack that he had caught. Well I had just recently thrown back a 29" Amberjack aboard the Swoop and said that one looked shorter than 29, he stated it is, its 28. I told my friend he better get an updated copy of the regulations. I showed him my copy and his jaw dropped, the copy on his boat was older and showed 28, not 30.

My point is persons who fish all the time and are members of this forum are for the most part informed because we have found out through conversion about changes. Somebody who isn't a memberof the forum and doesn't have a lot of knowledgeable fishing friends could easily have picked up theregs at the beginning of the year and not known about all the changes 3monthslater. I'll be honest, before I made some fishing friends and became a member of this forum I could have made the same kind of mistakes and not know it. 

It should beobvious fromall thediscussion on this post that the regulations need to be managed better. It's too easy right now for someone to get called ignorant for not knowing about middle of the seasonchanges and that's just not right.


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree that the regulations change far to often and that they're tough to keep up with sometimes, but the information is out there. Not just on this forum or the internet, but at the tackle shops, wal-mart, newspapers, florida sportsman, etc. and its our responsibility to keep up with the changes and to follow them. If I'm doing 70 down I10 and it drops to 55 and i don't see the sign...is it FHPs fault for writing me a ticket? DOT for not posting numerous signs or making them the size of a billboard? or my fault for not knowing whats going on? Its my fault and i should pay the ticket. Just like the ticket I bitched about on here a month or two ago, the area wasn't marked a no parking zone, everyone else parks there, but i should of known better. all that I'm saying is that the water nazis aren't sneaking around changing regulations without telling anyone trying to catch people breaking the rules


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## Bustin Benjies (Aug 25, 2008)

So here's another point to add to the mix...when do laws that are passed either via state or local legislation or referendums take affect? The ones that come to mind most recently are the $1 per pack cig tax and the authority for LE to stop you and ticket you for no seatbelt w/o observing another violation. These laws were both passed in last years state sessions yet they took effect on 1 July and everyone that has the ability to read and watch TV saw this comming weeks in advance in the media. Some laws take effect on 1 Oct or even 1 Jan. This seems to be the "standard" for "new laws" being enforced. The point being that the FWC and other Marine regulatory agencies can and do insert their new regulations without due regard to methods of disemination of the new regulations. There needs to be an established "standard" for the FWC laws as well. I too feel the pain when I'm out fishing and feel as if I need to consult legal advise prior to placing a fish in the fish box. I agree with the other poster that made the point about revenue increases by arbitrary law changes and the public not being fully aware of such changes until it's too late. 

Sidebar: I have no use for the FWC as they are a waste and have way to much authority given their LE status, ask any attorney and they will concur. Just one more example of "the man getting into my business"

Bustin Benjies :usaflag


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

Solution to the problem, especially in Alabama is that when you buy a license (as they are annual and not from date bought) is that you receive a regulations book to go along with it. That's your rules for the year, unless you get a Post card/E-Mail to the new reg...end of story. Like I go online or to the bait shop which we don't have here to read the walls like a Post Officeor spend God only knows how much time searching for the most current regulations, is total BS


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *Tuna Man (7/15/2009)*Solution to the problem, especially in Alabama is that when you buy a license (as they are annual and not from date bought) is that you receive a regulations book to go along with it. That's your rules for the year, unless you get a Post card/E-Mail to the new reg...end of story. Like I go online or to the bait shop which we don't have here to read the walls like a Post Officeor spend God only knows how much time searching for the most current regulations, is total BS


Tuna Man that sounds great but that makes too much sense for the FWC! Where would they get all their revenue from if people actually were informed of their arbitrary rule changes in the middleof the season without having to scour the internet or the bait shop walls!?:doh


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *69Viking (7/15/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Tuna Man (7/15/2009)*Solution to the problem, especially in Alabama is that when you buy a license (as they are annual and not from date bought) is that you receive a regulations book to go along with it. That's your rules for the year, unless you get a Post card/E-Mail to the new reg...end of story. Like I go online or to the bait shop which we don't have here to read the walls like a Post Officeor spend God only knows how much time searching for the most current regulations, is total BS
> ...


I bet there are a thousand posts that someone will tell someone else, "All I hear is bitching, how about a solution" Well here is a solution......I do get your drift tho..


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## Corpsman (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Tuna Man (7/15/2009)*Solution to the problem, especially in Alabama is that when you buy a license (as they are annual and not from date bought) is that you receive a regulations book to go along with it. That's your rules for the year, unless you get a Post card/E-Mail to the new reg...end of story. Like I go online or to the bait shop which we don't have here to read the walls like a Post Officeor spend God only knows how much time searching for the most current regulations, is total BS




That's the perfect idea Tuna. Every time they make a change mid season, they should be required to send at least a post card to every salt water license holder in the state. Not everyone has internet access.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Corpsman (7/15/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Tuna Man (7/15/2009)*Solution to the problem, especially in Alabama is that when you buy a license (as they are annual and not from date bought) is that you receive a regulations book to go along with it. That's your rules for the year, unless you get a Post card/E-Mail to the new reg...end of story. Like I go online or to the bait shop which we don't have here to read the walls like a Post Officeor spend God only knows how much time searching for the most current regulations, is total BS
> ...


When I purchased my Alabama license on the phone and if you do it online they ask if you if you have a E-Mail address, so right there they can in fact contact you. If you move/change your E-Mail that is your problem.

Just filled a phony application for a non-resident (Florida) fishing license and they want a E-Mail address if you have one,,guess what:banghead:banghead I must have since I applied online:doh










"When you provide your email address you will receive an email confirmation and a renewal notice" ... But we don't GAS weather we change the rules in two weeks, we have your email address but we don't want you to know any rule changes so we can bend you over a stump.:banghead:banghead


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## ballr4lyf (Jul 4, 2009)

> *biggamefishr (7/15/2009)*I agree that the regulations change far to often and that they're tough to keep up with sometimes, but the information is out there. Not just on this forum or the internet, but at the tackle shops, wal-mart, newspapers, florida sportsman, etc. and its our responsibility to keep up with the changes and to follow them. If I'm doing 70 down I10 and it drops to 55 and i don't see the sign...is it FHPs fault for writing me a ticket? DOT for not posting numerous signs or making them the size of a billboard? or my fault for not knowing whats going on? Its my fault and i should pay the ticket. Just like the ticket I bitched about on here a month or two ago, the area wasn't marked a no parking zone, everyone else parks there, but i should of known better. all that I'm saying is that the water nazis aren't sneaking around changing regulations without telling anyone trying to catch people breaking the rules




I have to take issue with this... If you're driving 70 down I10 and you get pulled over by the FHP because you missed the 55mph marker because it was knocked over, you can, and most likely will, win in court if you can prove that the sign that informs you it is 55mph has been knocked down (take a picture). However, it is more likely that the FHP will not be out ticketing that area until the DOT fixes that sign.



As for your parking problem, I know nothing about it. :doh


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## nolesfan (Feb 11, 2009)

Sidebar: I have no use for the FWC as they are a waste and have way to much authority given their LE status, ask any attorney and they will concur. Just one more example of "the man getting into my business" [Quote from Bustin Benjies]

I'll bet if you were a drug dealer you wouldn't like the Sheriff's Office either and you would think they were "a waste". I'll bet one day if they pull your sorry ass out of the water right before you drown, you will not consider them a waste. Sorry everyone else for my rant.........but we shouldn't be bad mouthing law enforcement of any kind, whether they'rewriting tickets for speed, drugs, or fish.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

Here is something to think about and how hard ASS FWC is.

How many on here have received a speeding ticket, I don't care how fast or what.

Now how many have been stopped for speeding at +20 or more over the limit and got either a written warning (what a joke), or NO ticket and knows they were wrong.

Now can just one of you step up and admit that you either had a miscounted creel or just one under or over sized fish and got a written warning or a verbal warning?


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

I never said if the sign was knocked down, i said if i didn't see the sign...playing with the radio, talking on a cell phone, etc. BIG difference....if the FWC didn't post rule changes anywhere then yea i could understand all of the bitching, but they do post and publish them and its your responsibility to get them, read them, understand them, and follow them. If you happen to not see them...well i don't know what to tell you except maybe you've been living under a rock.



69viking...the AJ and triggerfish changes went into effect august of last year if i'm not mistaken(and the FWC gave months and months of fair warning before the changes went into effect)....are you telling me that your friend hasn't looked at a set of regulations in a year? I just can't see an excuse for that


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *Tuna Man (7/15/2009)*Here is something to think about and how hard ASS FWC is.
> 
> How many on here have received a speeding ticket, I don't care how fast or what.
> 
> ...


LMAO, that's a good one!


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## bluffman2 (Nov 22, 2007)

> *Tuna Man (7/15/2009)*Here is something to think about and how hard ASS FWC is.
> 
> How many on here have received a speeding ticket, I don't care how fast or what.
> 
> ...


Ron, I can............had a illegal flounder (nephew gigged it) was 1/4" short......took a chance and got caught.....issued a verbal warning and was told if you gig a shorty(which i dont) just to simply throw it overboard...He said hey the crabs gotta eat too......BUT that was MS DMR not FWC


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## Corpsman (Oct 3, 2007)

The only real problem I have with the FWC is that they have the right to board my boat and search it WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE. That just blows my mind. See what happens to any case that a first year law student takes to trial if a car gets searched without probable cause. I always stay within the law, but it drives me mad that they can do this.


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

> *biggamefishr (7/15/2009)*I never said if the sign was knocked down, i said if i didn't see the sign...playing with the radio, talking on a cell phone, etc. BIG difference....if the FWC didn't post rule changes anywhere then yea i could understand all of the bitching, but they do post and publish them and its your responsibility to get them, read them, understand them, and follow them. If you happen to not see them...well i don't know what to tell you except maybe you've been living under a rock.
> 
> 
> 
> 69viking...the AJ and triggerfish changes went into effect august of last year if i'm not mistaken(and the FWC gave months and months of fair warning before the changes went into effect)....are you telling me that your friend hasn't looked at a set of regulations in a year? I just can't see an excuse for that




It's easy for a PFF moderator that has over 8000 visits to this forum to say you'd have to be living under a rock not to know the newest regs, but that is simply false man. hell someone posted a link to the FWC website the other day and it didn't even have the most recent regs. someone that is not affiliated with this forum or another large group of fishing friends could easily hop online, print the FWC's posted/outdated regs, go out there, and get a ticket. are you seriously going to conclude that it is their fault for not finding some post card in a tackle shop somewhere?


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *Jhoe (7/15/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *biggamefishr (7/15/2009)*I never said if the sign was knocked down, i said if i didn't see the sign...playing with the radio, talking on a cell phone, etc. BIG difference....if the FWC didn't post rule changes anywhere then yea i could understand all of the bitching, but they do post and publish them and its your responsibility to get them, read them, understand them, and follow them. If you happen to not see them...well i don't know what to tell you except maybe you've been living under a rock.
> ...


I am not a lawyer but IMO, if youare following thelatest FWC guidelines posted on theirwebsite http://www.myfwc.com/RULESANDREGS/SaltwaterRules_index.htmat the time you're ticketed, you'll have a good argument to present in court. Also, notice the section on the website dealing with proposed rule changes.I don't remember any regulation changes being implemented overnight. Like it or not,it's ultimately our responsibility to follow established guidelines.


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

> *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Jhoe (7/15/2009)*
> ...






It IS out responsibility. However, the sheer length of this thread is proof enough in my eyes that they need to change the way they get this information out.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *Jhoe (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> ...


What exactly would you propose? FWC has a website and printed regulations are easily available.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > What exactly would you propose? FWC has a website and printed regulations are easily available.
> ...


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

> *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. Do not change regulations mid season several times, currentlychanges are made every 3 months.

2. Simplify the regulations, adjust all catches that can be measured to the fork so that they ARE measured to the fork. 

3. That changes are published to all the news outlets.

3.That changes are sent out in the mail and email to ensure that everyone gets the word.

Yes printed regulations are easily available and that is why most people pick up the new regulations at the beginning of the year, we shouldn't have to check back every few months for changes. Especially when their changes are based on inaccurate guess work from some knuckle head in a high ranking position. Geez, let's shorten the Red Snapper season some more when everyone knows they are more plentiful then they have been in the last 20 years.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *69Viking (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> ...


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *Tuna Man (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> ...


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

Did Red Snapper season open in state waters on April 15 this year or wasn't it delayed until June 1 to match the federal regs.?


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## nolesfan (Feb 11, 2009)

> *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *69Viking (7/16/2009)*
> ...




+1:clap


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

> *alanbarck (7/16/2009)*Did Red Snapper season open in state waters on April 15 this year or wasn't it delayed until June 1 to match the federal regs.?


The reason I ask was because, as reflected in the Florida Fishing Regulations booklet published in January 2009, picked up by me at GBB&T on May 16, 2009, and suppose to be effective through June 30, 2009 










Snapper season opened on April 15










Now, had I not been a member of this forum and followed the debate about the change, how would I have found out prior to being educated by a FWC officer?


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *alanbarck (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *alanbarck (7/16/2009)*Did Red Snapper season open in state waters on April 15 this year or wasn't it delayed until June 1 to match the federal regs.?
> ...


Do you read the local newspaper? In this case the Pensacola News Journal. 

April 15 thru September 30, 2009 red snapper seasonchanged to June 1 thru September 30, 2009 

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/pnj/access/1689194731.html?dids=1689194731:1689194731&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Feb+11%2C+2009&author=&pub=Pensacola+News+Journal&edition=&startpage=C.3&desc=Anglers+fishing+for+ways+to+survive+snapper+rules 



June 1 thru September 30, 2009 red snapper seasonchanged toJune 1 thru Aug 15, 2009 

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/pnj/access/1684139321.html?dids=1684139321:1684139321&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Apr+22%2C+2009&author=Chris+Phillips&pub=Pensacola+News+Journal&edition=&startpage=C.3&desc=More+reef+rules+changes+coming 



http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009906240332



Would a personal telephone call from the head of the FWC, notifying you of each and every change, satisfy you? :doh


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

> *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *alanbarck (7/16/2009)*
> ...


That would be nice....

Unfortunately those stories did not make the Andalusia Star News, my local paper, so unless they had been inluded in the copyof the PNJ that was wraped around the bonita that I bought for bait,I probably would not have read them. Fortunately I did read about it on here. So Thanks PFF.... my local news source.:clap:letsdrink


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *alanbarck (7/17/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Orion45 (7/16/2009)*
> ...


So you're from Alabama. I believe federal waters also abut Alabama state waters. If you're fishing in other state waters, it is incumbent to you to familiarize yourself with that state's latest regulations. Same goes for CCW permits if you're carrying your weapon across other state lines. The next time you buy a bonita for bait, request that it be wrapped in the latest FWC regulation updates....and this time read them.


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

Are you agreeing that the changes in the regs when ever they want to is fine? 

If they change the size or season on one fish they SHOULD have to publish new books to all tackle shops. 

Are you saying that the day before i go out to go fishing I SHOULD call my fwc office and talk to the nice person that answers the phone and ask them what the regulations are now? 

I think its bullshit they change seasons, sizes, ect...though out the year but hey thats just my bullshit opinion.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *Pinksnappercatcher (7/17/2009)*Are you agreeing that the changes in the regs when ever they want to is fine?
> 
> If they change the size or season on one fish they SHOULD have to publish new books to all tackle shops.
> 
> ...


Sice apparently I'mthe targetof your question....here are my .02

As I said before, fishing regs don't just change overnight. There are hearings and'or meetings. There is one scheduled soon in Miami addressing red snappers.

You can check the latestregs on the FWC link.

Publishing new changes to be used in conjunction with the current pamphlet would be nice.

I don't like these changes in limits, sizes, and seasons anymore than you do. I belive the whole red snapper situation has gotten completely out of hand. However, until something is done to correct it, it is still our responsibility to keep up with the changes.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

So you are arguing that a newspaper of questionable veracity wrapped around a dead fish is a more reliable source of fishing regulations than the publications distributed by the very agency that is responsible for the establishment and enforcement of those regulations?oke


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *alanbarck (7/17/2009)*So you are arguing that a newspaper of questionable veracity wrapped around a dead fish is a more reliable source of fishing regulations than the publications distributed by the very agency that is responsible for the establishment and enforcement of those regulations?oke










:letsdrink


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

:letsdrink


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## clparker072 (Jul 17, 2009)

how many rods can one angler fish while on the atlantic


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

> *Orion45 (7/17/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Pinksnappercatcher (7/17/2009)*Are you agreeing that the changes in the regs when ever they want to is fine?
> ...








Did I read this correctly? They are having the meeting to discuss red snapper in Miami. That makes alot of sense.


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

The "Right" way to measure all fish should be at the fork! That way there wouldnt be any mistakes. But of coarse if we did that FWC & the state wouldnt make any money. Theprosecutors get paid regaurdless if theres court that day or not. Same with Federal prosecutors. We need to get smart about the idiot lawmakers in this state. How they want us to be the rule to all other states. No matter how much it cost us out of our pockets. Heres another simple idea not used by the state, If your coming to a turning yellow light doing say 45 mph like at Villa Venyce entrance on Hwy.98, You have 1 maybe 2 seconds to stop because its red that quick! There should be a rule for the speed allowed to time the yellow to red. Not! That makes the county & state money! Who cares about me& you! Be a good tax paying fine payingamerican while the state does illeagle. Why cant the green light have a flashingyellow with it meaning its going yellow?Why cant the yellow lite have a flashing red meaning its going red! I think that would save lives. But they dont want itto save us money. :booThe other color flashing will tell you its now, you dont have time to go. Doesthese make sense to anyone?


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## Jhoe (May 4, 2009)

> *King Crab (7/17/2009)*The "Right" way to measure all fish should be at the fork! That way there wouldnt be any mistakes. But of coarse if we did that FWC & the state wouldnt make any money. Theprosecutors get paid regaurdless if theres court that day or not. Same with Federal prosecutors. We need to get smart about the idiot lawmakers in this state. How they want us to be the rule to all other states. No matter how much it cost us out of our pockets. Heres another simple idea not used by the state, If your coming to a turning yellow light doing say 45 mph like at Villa Venyce entrance on Hwy.98, You have 1 maybe 2 seconds to stop because its red that quick! There should be a rule for the speed allowed to time the yellow to red. Not! That makes the county & state money! Who cares about me& you! Be a good tax paying fine payingamerican while the state does illeagle. Why cant the green light have a flashingyellow with it meaning its going yellow?Why cant the yellow lite have a flashing red meaning its going red! I think that would save lives. But they dont want itto save us money. :booThe other color flashing will tell you its now, you dont have time to go. Doesthese make sense to anyone?




The fact that it is Yellow is a direct indication it is about to go red. that's the entire purpose of the yellow light. why the hell would you speed up with a direct indicator that a light is about to turn red? trying to beat it? well, if thats the game you play, that's the game you lose when a cop see's you miss it.



as for a yellow light flashing before it switches? you already know its about to switch, thats its entire purpose for existance and it isn't that complicated to me.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *feelin' wright (7/17/2009) Did I read this correctly? They are having the meeting to discuss red snapper in Miami. That makes alot of sense.*


*

Apparently you're not the only one who feels this way.

http://orangebeachfishingforum.com/fishingforum/Topic380139-2-1.aspx#bm382668*


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

The time for a light to go from amber to red at 45 mph should be the time you travel in 150 feet (stopping distance), which should be approximately 5 seconds...All this assuming you see the light go from green to amber. OH ..And some asshole isn't tailgating.:banghead


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## trollinstoned (Mar 10, 2008)

Maybe so, but ignorant laws enforced by ignorant "cop want a be's" istragicaly inexcusable!


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