# pnj blasts away at hatchery plan...



## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

After this article I don't see how the hatchery plan will get approved. Even the cartoon in today's paper was.anti-hatchery. Personally I would like to see the hatchery plan go forward.


http://www.pnj.com/article/20140216...ach-location-for-fish-hatchery?nclick_check=1


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Sum bitches at the.pnj. basically the entire paper.was.anti hatchery plan...there was the article. The below editorial today and even the cartoon against the hatchery plan...



Back in 2011 we were excited when we first learned about the possibility of a fish hatchery funded by BP money and potentially sited in an existing structure at the Port of Pensacola. The proposal sounded compelling and creative – an idea loaded with vitality and rebirth that seemed like a natural antithesis to the deadly and poisonous Deepwater Horizon oil spill.

Today, we wish the proposed hatchery was a proven and potent way to turn $18.8 million of BP’s punishment into meaningful progress for our city and our environment. But as you’ll see in today’s watchdog reporting by T.S. Strickland and Rob Johnson, the hatchery’s value does not seem tangible enough to earn its place on prime waterfront real estate.

The Gulf Coast Marine Fisheries Enhancement Center, as the project has been labeled, is wrong for Bruce Beach, a rare 10 acres of publicly owned bayfront property. This project goes against the recommendations of the city’s own land-use studies.

Mayor Ashton Hayward’s Urban Redevelopment Advisory Committee released its final report in fall 2012, stating: “We should seek to sell or lease the abundant inventory of public land to increase the tax base .... We should focus on our unique assets – namely the waterfront – and create a pro-business environment that will attract the economic engines to drive the process.”

Both that report and the Community Redevelopment Agency Plan, released two years prior, recommended better uses for Bruce Beach.

What’s the point of extensive land-use studies if we ignore their recommendations? And what’s the point of experts if we ignore their expertise?

Let’s stop ignoring the experts.

Start by listening to University of West Florida economist Rick Harper, who put the idea of a Bruce Beach fish hatchery in succinct perspective: “Nobody proposes farming on real estate in a city center.”

Or listen to Ken Ford, director of the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition who challenged: “Think of any successful waterfront city to which we aspire comparison. How many of these cities feature hatcheries as a driver of their economic engine.

(Page 2 of 2)

Or listen to Quint Studer, who questioned why the proposed hatchery has not been subjected to a land-use study, the way the YMCA had been during its unsuccessful bid to relocate right next door to Bruce Beach in the Community Maritime Park.

“The mayor’s office should find a consistent way of handling land,” Studer said.

In a Viewpoint in Thursday’s PNJ, Mayor Hayward wrote that Bruce Beach “isn’t a very attractive site for private development.”

He has said that the site has received no “serious interest” from any other group and argued that future interest would be unlikely before environmental remediation work were completed.

But the fact is that the city has never marketed the property. Again, marketing city property was the explicit recommendation of the mayor’s own Urban Redevelopment Advisory Committee.

That disconnect – between expert advice and city advocacy – is troubling.

We’re at a loss as to why an alternative – and potentially better-suited – site at the port is now off the table, as far as the city is concerned.

When city and hatchery officials first met with the Editorial Board almost three years ago, a large part of their initial enthusiasm was tied into the fact that the port site already had a 40,000-square-foot warehouse that was empty and virtually ready for a hatchery operation.

Don Kent, president and CEO of the nonprofit Hubbs-Sea World Research Institute, supports the Bruce Beach site but still echoes more enthusiasm for the port site he toured in 2011.

“I was excited by the port,” Kent told reporter Rob Johnson recently. “There was a building there that’s 40,000 square feet and I told the mayor, ‘If we get this, I’ll be up and running in a year.”

Despite the fact that Kent is the hatchery expert here, City Administrator Colleen Castille has other ideas.

She rejects the port site, saying “We’ve got to look at it (the port) as an enterprise, like the airport,” she said, “and we need to get more than $1.”

But how can Castille preach strategy, “enterprise” and profitability about the port while rejecting such comprehensive, strategic thinking about downtown itself? Treating downtown as a valuable “enterprise” is precisely the message built into the mayor’s URAC report and precisely the philosophy that city officials and investors claim will continue to fuel downtown progress.

To pursue this plan against the studies, the recommendations and the experts is to go against the greater progress flourishing in downtown.

The mayor and the city should pull back.

If the hatchery can set sail for other shores – the port or another spot in our city – it should. And we would likely support that.

But not on one of the most valuable pieces of public, downtown waterfront.

Not on Bruce Beach.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

we dont want your 19 million dollars BP, give it to ft walton.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

nextstep said:


> we dont want your 19 million dollars BP, give it to ft walton.


Yea we have people and corporations falling over themselves to invest in building on vacant land in downtown pensacola. Look how many entities are fighting for the rights to develop a waterfront lot on the ballpark property, on the technology park property, and the old waste water plant property. You just about have to beat them off with a stick...


Typical pnj hatchet job. No mention that if the money isn't spent on the hatchery that it goes to another county.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

besides where will the homeless live?


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

nextstep said:


> besides where will the homeless live?


Lmao


Hey it's looking up for the homeless.downtown.. now they can sleep with blankets downtown. Or maybe they can commute downtown from "Sean's outpost".

Passive aggressive B.S. if you ask me ...we want to make it easier on the homeless but we want a clean well run downtown that attracts businesses and investors....


Nobody wants to step over a bunch of drunk bums when they are trying to get something to eat or do business downtown. Best thing they did was close down the waterfront mission downtown and move it before.the ballpark opened. 

When was the last time the waterfront mission helped a stevedore off a ship in pensacola.anyway?


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## BrakeTurnAccelerate (Jul 1, 2012)

Find it odd that people are criticizing it for not fitting in with the touristy-downtowny-theme... Especially when there's a Gas/Oil facility right next door.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

BrakeTurnAccelerate said:


> Find it odd that people are criticizing it for not fitting in with the touristy-downtowny-theme... Especially when there's a Gas/Oil facility right next door.


Great Point! Haha


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

The money should go to building reefs and other habitat. If the fish have somewhere to live....they will. 
Hatching and dumping millions of fish into an area that cannot support the fish that are already there....is a waste.
I could see the hatchery being a good idea if it was a two-fold plan...or if we were raising food stock - Cobia!!!!
Also seems silly to build a facility with large tanks and pumps.....right on top of a sight where we just spent millions to remove large tanks and pumps. If it wasn't a good idea to raise fish there when we already had most of the facility built....its probably not a good idea to just blow money to build it now.
We might get a handout now ...but it will be the responsibility of Pensacola to keep it up and staff it after that. How much money do we want to throw down the drain for the free money right now?
I don't see it being enough of a tourist draw to pay the salaries of even the tour guides.
Maybe if it was also an AQUARIUM!
Wish we could use the money for something we really need, or bank it for a future project.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

The hatchery is not an industry. The hatchery would supply very few jobs. Why waste the concrete?

The fish raised in hatchery also are not really suitable for wild stock a lot of the time so if we did have te habitat to support more and more fish - and we don't, excellent point firefish - these farm raised fish are not always desirable. 

Could Pensacola use $20 million? Sure. Who couldn't? Would it do our area any long term good? No probably not.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

And that op/Ed piece actually raises some great questions about the city's lack of consistent practice when it comes to deciding what goes where on the waterfront. 

Yet another fun little scramble for Pensacola and Escambia County. Business as usual, back room deals and dirty deals. Y'all should be attacking the city for its fouled up practices not the paper for pointing them out. 

But then what would the intellectual elite have to talk about I not for bad mouthing the local mullet wrapper.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

I say it again............
The science of raising native fish for release into the wild is iffy both pro and con.
Louisiana said no thanks to the possibility of doing what Florida wants to do here.
There is scientific support that the release of hatchery fish merely replaces native fish as there is x amount of suitable habitat to support such life.
Spend the money on habitat restoration and prevention of further habitat loss.
Nature trumps anything man comes up with.

Besides, placing the facility right there on the bayfront is just a stupid location.
Remember that $18 million only builds it.
Forever after funds come out of our pockets for regular maintenance, payroll, alterations and rebuilding after canes coming off the gulf. 

If it is just a fish hatchery, what is up with all the artistic, fancy buildings?
It is an industry, not a civic center, church or library.
It should be built utilitarian with pole barn type buildings, not glass houses.
Those artist building renderings are just for propaganda to get public acceptance of something that the "wanters" know the public will not automatically accept.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

^^^ mark it down. Sense was made on the pff on this date in 2014.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

JoeZ said:


> And that op/Ed piece actually raises some great questions about the city's lack of consistent practice when it comes to deciding what goes where on the waterfront.
> 
> Yet another fun little scramble for Pensacola and Escambia County. Business as usual, back room deals and dirty deals. Y'all should be attacking the city for its fouled up practices not the paper for pointing them out.
> 
> But then what would the intellectual elite have to talk about I not for bad mouthing the local mullet wrapper.


Where is the dirty deal if you have some dirty deal info post it up? How about the fact that the editorial doesn't cover the whole story about the funding not being available / going away if not used for the current plan. If they can't get the. Whole story told the paper should stick to stories it can cover in big spreads like the tragic loss of the uber talented adjunct reporter Sean Dugas, the rise of Sean's outpost, troy moon's musings on his lost childhood and the coolest band he ever heard, and the life.and times.of the underground.networked group of.post punk groupies the "plug uglies". Lmao


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

amazing how difficult it is to make something function and make money at the same time. Tina and I rode the Harley through Perdido Key and up Hwy 59 today. Amazing on how there are things for people to do when they come to town. There are water parks, go cart tracks, zip line park, the Hangout and a number of other things. I wonder why there isn't anything like that here? I'm not saying put something like this there, but gee whiz, there isn't much here other than what's crammed on the beach. I just wish something would happen around here to make this a REAL destination, or big business jobs move in here.... I get frustrated as all get out over this stuff....


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> The money should go to building reefs and other habitat. If the fish have somewhere to live....they will.
> Hatching and dumping millions of fish into an area that cannot support the fish that are already there....is a waste.
> I could see the hatchery being a good idea if it was a two-fold plan...or if we were raising food stock - Cobia!!!!
> Also seems silly to build a facility with large tanks and pumps.....right on top of a sight where we just spent millions to remove large tanks and pumps. If it wasn't a good idea to raise fish there when we already had most of the facility built....its probably not a good idea to just blow money to build it now.
> ...



You just don't get it. The.money cannot be used.for.other things. The money is bp money...


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> I say it again............
> The science of raising native fish for release into the wild is iffy both pro and con.
> Louisiana said no thanks to the possibility of doing what Florida wants to do here.
> There is scientific support that the release of hatchery fish merely replaces native fish as there is x amount of suitable habitat to support such life.
> ...



Yea the scientists that support it are.all.screwed.up.and.wrong it can't work.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> You just don't get it. The.money cannot be used.for.other things. The money is bp money...


No ...I get it....it can't be used for anything USEFUL.
That does not mean we HAVE to accept it.
Sometimes gifts cost more than they are worth.
Besides....why would we do ANYTHING that BP WANTS us to do? They don't seem to care what's best for our environment.


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## cuzmondo (Oct 1, 2007)

JoeZ said:


> And that op/Ed piece actually raises some great questions about the city's lack of consistent practice when it comes to deciding what goes where on the waterfront.
> 
> Yet another fun little scramble for Pensacola and Escambia County. Business as usual, back room deals and dirty deals. Y'all should be attacking the city for its fouled up practices not the paper for pointing them out.
> 
> But then what would the intellectual elite have to talk about I not for bad mouthing the local mullet wrapper.


Well said. The way I read the article it seems they didn't fault the idea, just the particular location. While in another editorial they pointed out the poor performance of the Port, which would be just as good if not a better location for the hatchery. We finally got rid of old stinky and have a great new waterfront ball park. Why in the world would we want to put a "smelly" fish hatchery right next door on prime waterfront property? Let's do it smart for once. Locate the hatchery on the Port property and put something nicer and more in line with the long term goals of the downtown water front development on the Bruce Beach property. The Port already has an underutilized 40,000 sq. ft. space available.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Realtor said:


> amazing how difficult it is to make something function and make money at the same time. Tina and I rode the Harley through Perdido Key and up Hwy 59 today. Amazing on how there are things for people to do when they come to town. There are water parks, go cart tracks, zip line park, the Hangout and a number of other things. I wonder why there isn't anything like that here? I'm not saying put something like this there, but gee whiz, there isn't much here other than what's crammed on the beach. I just wish something would happen around here to make this a REAL destination, or big business jobs move in here.... I get frustrated as all get out over this stuff....


If you like the way baldwin county and alabama do business you will.love this a ******* disney is coming...
Switch to full site


New Foley Theme Park


The deal is complete. A 528-acre entertainment venue will be constructed at the corner of County Road 20 and the Foley Beach Express.

The site will be home to Blue Collar Country, complete with a theme park, RV park, restaurants and shopping.

Jeff Foxworthy, Bill Engvall and Larry the Cable Guy are behind the project. Singer Tony Orlando found the site on a recent trip to Baldwin County, according to his management team.

Phase 1 will consume about 260 acres. It's a $150 million project that will take about 2 years to complete.

News 5's Blake Brown will have more later tonight on News 5.

Back to Home
© Copyright 2000 - 2014 WorldNow and WKRG


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

cuzmondo said:


> Well said. The way I read the article it seems they didn't fault the idea, just the particular location. While in another editorial they pointed out the poor performance of the Port, which would be just as good if not a better location for the hatchery. We finally got rid of old stinky and have a great new waterfront ball park. Why in the world would we want to put a "smelly" fish hatchery right next door on prime waterfront property? Let's do it smart for once. Locate the hatchery on the Port property and put something nicer and more in line with the long term goals of the downtown water front development on the Bruce Beach property. The Port already has an underutilized 40,000 sq. ft. space available.


Prime waterfront property ..Bruce beach ..home.of.hoboes and.coyote lmao


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> No ...I get it....it can't be used for anything USEFUL.
> That does not mean we HAVE to accept it.
> Sometimes gifts cost more than they are worth.
> Besides....why would we do ANYTHING that BP WANTS us to do? They don't seem to care what's best for our environment.[/QUOTE.
> ...


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## PoolBoy074 (May 2, 2012)

Gator McKlusky said:


> If you like the way baldwin county and alabama do business you will.love this a ******* disney is coming...
> Switch to full site
> 
> 
> ...


Just a thought bro.... Maybe these ******** will bring more $$$$ in for our county than any hatchery you want on your island..... Raise a bunch of babies in the pool and then let Mother Nature do it's job and eat eat everyone of those baby BP minnows :thumbsup:


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

adjacent property
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.405...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQl3zfROAwi1Zeuu02Uxvvw!2e0
this is where i will build my resort


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Where is the dirty deal if you have some dirty deal info post it up? *How about the fact that the editorial doesn't cover the whole story about the funding not being available / going away if not used for the current plan. If they can't get the. Whole story told the paper should stick to stories it can cover in big spreads like the tragic loss of the uber talented adjunct reporter *Sean Dugas, the rise of Sean's outpost, troy moon's musings on his lost childhood and the coolest band he ever heard, and the life.and times.of the underground.networked group of.post punk groupies the "plug uglies". *Lmao





You're pretty ridiculous dragging out a murder victim to poke fun of.

As for the money going away, how about this: I'll give you this box worth $20. It's yours to keep and keep and keep and we'll put it right here where something good could go one day.*
This box will not bring in much in terms of a return - limited jobs, no rent return to speak of and not much revenue tax to worry about - but you'll have to pay about $1 a year to keep the box. Unless the weather gets bad then you might have to rebuild the box entirely. And it'll probably cost more.*

So, yes, take the money and move the F on. It would only cost the city money in the long run. But hey, free money!!! What could go wrong.*


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

Free puppy, anyone?


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

PoolBoy074 said:


> Just a thought bro.... Maybe these ******** will bring more $$$$ in for our county than any hatchery you want on your island..... Raise a bunch of babies in the pool and then let Mother Nature do it's job and eat eat everyone of those baby BP minnows :thumbsup:


Haha hey bro I am for the red neck disney. I'm gonna get a job as the director of fun there.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Firefishvideo said:
> 
> 
> > No ...I get it....it can't be used for anything USEFUL.
> ...


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

JoeZ said:


> You're pretty ridiculous dragging out a murder victim to poke fun of.
> 
> As for the money going away, how about this: I'll give you this box worth $20. It's yours to keep and keep and keep and we'll put it right here where something good could go one day.*
> This box will not bring in much in terms of a return - limited jobs, no rent return to speak of and not much revenue tax to worry about - but you'll have to pay about $1 a year to keep the box. Unless the weather gets bad then you might have to rebuild the box entirely. And it'll probably cost more.*
> ...


Isn't there smoke somewhere in Santa Rosa.county that needs investigating?

Oh and.regarding the hatchery it is a dark and dastardly plan...


Gulf Coast Marine Fisheries Hatchery & Enhancement Center
Home
Click on presentation to advance through pages.

Project Description

Click here to return to Home page.



BRIEF PROJECT DESCRIPTION

Florida’s recreational and commercial fishing and associated business have been severely impacted by the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. Besides having beaches, estuaries, and other coastal areas directly impacted by oil intrusion vast expanses of state and federal waters were under fishery closures for months on end. Combined, these impacts resulted in significant loss of human use and access to Florida’s saltwater fisheries resources. Consequences of these losses include:
A documented significant reduction in the number of recreational fishing trips (i.e., angler-days) that impacted private recreational anglers, charter boat captains, and headboat fishing operations.
Reduced numbers of resident and out-of-state visiting anglers given the perception of lost fishing opportunities or unhealthy/contaminated fish stocks.
Consequent drastic reduction in fishing-related tourism revenues.
Commercial fishery harvest levels well short of what would be expected (i.e., less than available quotas) for several key fish stocks due to the extended fishery closures associated with the oil spill.
Reduced sales and loss of new market development opportunities for Florida seafood given the national- and international-level perception of unsafe, oil-tainted seafood post-DWH oil spill.
This drastic reduction in fishing-related revenues had severe economic consequences. Florida has the nation’s largest recreational fishing industry, contributing in excess of $5 billion annually to the state’s economy and supporting one of the largest saltwater fishing-related tourism industries in the world. Close to half of the estimated recreational fishing trips in Florida are made by visitors to the state—i.e., additional tourism dollars. The $1.4 billion that resident and non-resident saltwater anglers spend preparing for and conducting saltwater fishing trips in Florida produces an estimated $119.7 million in indirect business taxes.

To address this problem, FWC and the Wildlife Foundation of Florida are working with a variety of partners to develop a saltwater fish hatchery in Pensacola (Escambia County, Florida). This facility will focus on restoring fishing activity (i.e., increase angler participation and the number of fishing trips) by providing hatchery production and eventual release of highly sought-after sportfish species such as red snapper, red drum, and spotted seatrout. Facility design and construction will be focused on the use of green technologies (LEED certification) to minimize negative environmental impacts. Hatchery production will be based on the use of intensive (i.e., indoor, tank-based) recirculating aquaculture systems that reduce water usage and effluent discharge (most of the water is re-used). Similar to the process now used at FWC’s Stock Enhancement Research Facility (SERF) in Manatee County effluent water will be cleansed through a two-fold filtration process. The final stage consists of a filtration marsh composed of native coastal wetland plant species. In this manner, nutrients from the aquaculture facility are recycled as plant biomass which is used to support ongoing regional coastal habitat restoration efforts. In the future, we anticipate expanding our plant nursery capabilities as to provide much-needed native coastal wetland plants for Gulf of Mexico habitat restoration projects.
RESTORATION BENEFITS

1. Restore the loss of fishing activity:

(a) Proven impacts from FWC’s Project Tampa Bay on recreational anglers success and perceptions of the quality of the fishery;

(b) Providing non-regulatory means for addressing commercial/recreational catch allocations (a critical FWC strategy for ensuring sustainable fisheries); (c) Potential for commercial fisheries to purchase genetically wild hatchery fish from the facility for commercial grow-out (reducing pressures on wild stocks, adding a sustainable revenue stream, and benefiting local restaurants with a continuous supply of locally important food species).

2. Changing perceptions of visitors and resident anglers:

(a) The investment in hatchery and marine restoration sends a strong signal that the Gulf fishery is being properly managed for long-term benefit of the resource and people; 

(b) Visitors will once again believe that the Gulf is a viable and desirable angling destination.

3. Job development:

(a) Sustainable community jobs within the region related to commercial, recreational, and food-base fishery production;

(b) Increase fishing tourism-related jobs;

(c) Construction-related jobs (all feasible contracts to be let in the county and city);

(d) Tourism dollars to the community based on end-destination visits to the facility (the facility, in phase 2, is designed as a end-destination that fits with the city's plans for waterfront development and destination visits); and

(e) Creation of new jobs for hatchery production, habitat restoration, and visitor/end-destination jobs related to education and outreach.

4. Integration with community development goals:

(a) Actively partnering with the community to create an tourist friendly end-destination in alignment with waterfront development goals and long-term economic strategies for growth;

(b) Working with the local colleges, universities, and school systems to develop the next generation of marine science professionals trained in marine ecosystem management (critical to Florida's long-term environmental success); and

(c) Working with the city and county to align all marine restoration goals and projects.

5. Developing the future conservationists and anglers: Through education and outreach, develop the next generation of anglers and conservation-minded Floridians that will support and sustain resource restoration.
6. Restoring important fisheries habitats in the region
(a) Cleansing hatchery effluent using coastal wetlands created at the center
(b) Providing native plants for restoration projects, including living shorelines, from the created wetlands
(c) Developing and testing new restoration technologies
(d) Actively partnering with federal, state, local, and university entities to leverage funds for restoring habitats such as wetlands, seagrasses, hardbottom reefs, and oyster beds.
©2013 Florida Marine Fisheries Enhancement Initiative - All Rights Reserved - Privacy Policy - Legal Disclosure - Design by Chris Herberte


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> Gator McKlusky said:
> 
> 
> > Ok....so obviously you don't give a $hit about anyone else's opinion.....so how about you lay out why YOU think it IS a good idea!?
> ...


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Gator McKlusky said:


> If you like the way baldwin county and alabama do business you will.love this a ******* disney is coming...
> Switch to full site
> 
> 
> ...


 I remember reading that a while back, now that you post it.... ******* or not, they are/will be bringing in the people for their vacations and with them comes their $$$$. At least they seem to be able to do something, at least they (irrelevant if I or you agree) chose a route and they are making the best of it. seems like there is just a lot of talking about big dreams, dreams of a few and the few are the ones that largely benefit.... -- frustrated as usual....


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Fishing forum members against a fish hatchery only in pensacola. God I love it so. Lmao


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Firefishvideo said:
> 
> 
> > See my last post on the.project description.for.the.plan.
> ...


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Awe never mind. I'll try to be nice.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Firefishvideo said:


> Gator McKlusky said:
> 
> 
> > Check it again yourself.... Everything after "d" is part of "phase2".....and most likely is at our cost.
> ...


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

JoeZ said:


> Firefishvideo said:
> 
> 
> > So you're saying The Great Gator might not have the whole story? I wish you could see my shocked face.
> ...


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

JoeZ said:


> Awe never mind. I'll try to be nice.


Don't go soft on me now. It was just starting to get real.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

But a "better" spot in the port was dismissed?

Jim


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> JoeZ said:
> 
> 
> > Y'all have 18 mil laying around to build.something that will.contribute to the local fishery...?
> ...


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Realtor said:


> I remember reading that a while back, now that you post it.... ******* or not, they are/will be bringing in the people for their vacations and with them comes their $$$$. At least they seem to be able to do something, at least they (irrelevant if I or you agree) chose a route and they are making the best of it. seems like there is just a lot of talking about big dreams, dreams of a few and the few are the ones that largely benefit.... -- frustrated as usual....


Yes they are kicking azz in baldwin county. In escambia we are.turning down infrastructure dollars and building a tent city for bums and making sure they have blankets to sleep with downtown. In baldwin county they make sure their bums make it across the escambia county line.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> Gator McKlusky said:
> 
> 
> > Build habitat. Put down reefs. Look at what Alabama has done. Of course. They would have more habitat if BP had not destroyed it......at least they still have thousands of artificial reefs.....which we don't.
> ...


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Don't go soft on me now. It was just starting to get real.


So you're saying you have nothing productive to add. That's all I'm getting here. 

That's good though, I think the point has been proven that this particular plan for a hatchery is not a good plan.


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

Wasn't there a hatchery on the beach many years ago? Somewhere around Porto Fino I believe. Seems like a better habitat to me.


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## Big B (Sep 7, 2009)

I seen an article on why is was a bad idea on one of the front pages. I also seen an article in the back of a section why is was a good idea. I thought that was ironic.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

The point of the original post was that due in part to the lame azz halfway reporting done by the Pnj this project will not move forward. At this point there is no way the city council will approve the lease for this.project. 

So don't fret Joe and firefish the coyote and hoboes at Bruce beach are safe for at least another 59 years...

Y'all should change your signatures to read "fisherman against fish hatcheries". Lmao


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

http://www.adn.com/2012/09/06/2613532/new-fairbanks-fish-hatchery-reports.html

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fish/hatcheries/Feather/History.asp

http://fishandboat.com/anglerboater/2013ab/vol82num6_novdec/03success.pdf

http://abc10up.com/dnr-says-successful-fish-stocking-season-creates-more-fishing-opportunities/

http://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-29938_34758-317704--Y,00.html

http://www.utahfishfinder.com/articles/mantua-fish-hatchery.html

i dont know if the hatchery would succeed or not and neither do any of the keyboard jockeys on here that are convinced it wont. i am willing to give it a try. the fwc believes it will work. they have worked before. it is moving in the right direction. if we dont start farming the resource will be gone.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Why was the port site rejected? Seems some scientists thought it a better site?

Jim


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Gator McKlusky said:


> In escambia we are building a tent city for bums and making sure they have blankets to sleep with downtown. In baldwin county they make sure their bums make it across the escambia county line.


 Don't Forget in Escambia we encourage building as many HUD apartment complex's as we can cram on a road and tax the working citizens the gas they use to go to work so that we can be sure and pay for the non working non taxpaying part of the county to go shopping at the mall while we work..


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Same type people were.against the ballpark....I enjoyed that when all the naysayers got the ballpark rammed up the hard way...can only hope.the power brokers in this town will ram.up.the hatchery the same way. That would be to sweet to stand. Lmao


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

nextstep said:


> http://www.adn.com/2012/09/06/2613532/new-fairbanks-fish-hatchery-reports.html
> 
> http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fish/hatcheries/feather/history.asp
> 
> ...


+1000


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> Don't Forget in Escambia we encourage building as many HUD apartment complex's as we can cram on a road and tax the working citizens the gas they use to go to work so that we can be sure and pay for the non working non taxpaying part of the county to go shopping at the mall while we work..


Yes yes. But citizens even fisherman will fight you tooth and.nail.over building a.hatchery project on land that has even been thought about in 50 years. Wtf


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

:shifty:


Gator McKlusky said:


> The point of the original post was that due in part to the lame azz halfway reporting done by the Pnj this project will not move forward. At this point there is no way the city council will approve the lease for this.project.
> 
> So don't fret Joe and firefish the coyote and hoboes at Bruce beach are safe for at least another 59 years...
> 
> Y'all should change your signatures to read "fisherman against fish hatcheries". Lmao



So true, Years ago, we had a fishing club that would not endorse the net ban too.
:001_huh:


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

a said:


> :shifty:
> 
> 
> So true, Years ago, we had a fishing club that would not endorse the net ban too.
> :001_huh:


Haha didn't know that but I believe it.


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## BrakeTurnAccelerate (Jul 1, 2012)

nextstep said:


> adjacent property
> https://www.google.com/maps/@30.405...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQl3zfROAwi1Zeuu02Uxvvw!2e0
> this is where i will build my resort


lol. That's the same point I had. What business really wants that property? Atleast the ball park has this property as a buffer between itself and the oil/gas company. This would literally be right on top of it. 

It's useless property. Point blank. Useless. No business will EVER want it. This was even brought up by the Mayor's office (IIRC). They had no really inquiries about the property. It's too expensive for some industrial company, and it's too ugly for a restaurant/attraction. 

Now, whether the fish hatchery is a good idea? I don't know, or really care. But to claim the property is some great piece of land is absolutely absurd.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

A few mid-rise condo's? If not now, in 10 years.

Waterfront condo's will always succeed. Build a park out front.

REVENUE every year.

Heck another ramp with a big parking lot as part of the "park"

Jim


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

BrakeTurnAccelerate said:


> lol. That's the same point I had. What business really wants that property? Atleast the ball park has this property as a buffer between itself and the oil/gas company. This would literally be right on top of it.
> 
> It's useless property. Point blank. Useless. No business will EVER want it. This was even brought up by the Mayor's office (IIRC). They had no really inquiries about the property. It's too expensive for some industrial company, and it's too ugly for a restaurant/attraction.
> 
> Now, whether the fish hatchery is a good idea? I don't know, or really care. But to claim the property is some great piece of land is absolutely absurd.


Yea that Google.map is great. Shows the oil gas holding tanks that are located adjacent to it.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Hay - listen.....If I thought for a second- that either Pensacola, OR the FWC could be trusted to bring a project like this to completion on budget/time.....and have it succeed ....then I'd be all for it.
I just fail to see how dumping fish into the gulf is going to solve anything.
I see that "some" habitat renewal is in the plan....but its in STAGE 2!!! Evidently we want our FISH homeless too!!!
Show me Scientific facts that back this plan up....and guarantee it wont be a disaster...and I'll get behind it 100%
If we are just guessing....no way.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

You folks need to take a closer look at PNJ. Owned by Gannett, they have media holdings all over the U.S. They will report an armed robbery and describe the suspect to a tee. It was a tall man in blue jeans with a blue shirt. They didn't report at all, the conviction of C. Ray Nagin, former mayor of New Orleans (chocolate city). See, the proposed fish hatchery doesn't in any way benefit their pet group. So, since that $$ for the fish hatchery has no upside for them, they crap all over it. Follow the money and the idiots.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

Firefishvideo said:


> Hay - listen.....If I thought for a second- that either Pensacola, OR the FWC could be trusted to bring a project like this to completion on budget/time.....and have it succeed ....then I'd be all for it.
> I just fail to see how dumping fish into the gulf is going to solve anything.
> I see that "some" habitat renewal is in the plan....but its in STAGE 2!!! Evidently we want our FISH homeless too!!!
> Show me Scientific facts that back this plan up....and guarantee it wont be a disaster...and I'll get behind it 100%
> If we are just guessing....no way.


only guarantees in life are death and taxes.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

So, an oil gas holding tank will be in view of my condo next door? I think I can build a simple wall on the balcony that will block that view. (Actually I'd not build that wall as that property will sell eventually anyway).

Yeah, we all HATE condos, till it's a better revenue.

Ask me. I owned a small condo on Perdido Key. In the late 90's "revenue" took over. You CANNOT fight revenue.

Jim



Jim


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Burnt Drag said:


> You folks need to take a closer look at PNJ. Owned by Gannett, they have media holdings all over the U.S. They will report an armed robbery and describe the suspect to a tee. It was a tall man in blue jeans with a blue shirt. They didn't report at all, the conviction of C. Ray Nagin, former mayor of New Orleans (chocolate city). See, the proposed fish hatchery doesn't in any way benefit their pet group. So, since that $$ for the fish hatchery has no upside for them, they crap all over it. Follow the money and the idiots.


The pnj is in a particularly precarious position. No office building, paper.is printed in mobile, can only imagine what being a staff writer there is like just waiting for the axe to fall. Meanwhile while serving a largely conservative populace they just keep on keeping on with their way of doing business. Perhaps they should reach out more to the conservative populace with their articles... might win them some readership back....Nah what's the sense in that? Haha


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

nextstep said:


> only guarantees in life are death and taxes.


Tell it!


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> Hay - listen.....If I thought for a second- that either Pensacola, OR the FWC could be trusted to bring a project like this to completion on budget/time.....and have it succeed ....then I'd be all for it.
> I just fail to see how dumping fish into the gulf is going to solve anything.
> I see that "some" habitat renewal is in the plan....but its in STAGE 2!!! Evidently we want our FISH homeless too!!!
> Show me Scientific facts that back this plan up....and guarantee it wont be a disaster...and I'll get behind it 100%
> If we are just guessing....no way.


Appreciate your thoughts in this post. I tend to trust fwc.more.than federal.scientists at this point. But that is just me.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Appreciate your thoughts in this post. I tend to trust fwc.more.than federal.scientists at this point. But that is just me.


He just don't see how dumping in a native fish can help anything? How can taking them out & not putting them back Not help? Anything?:whistling: Bring on the Hatchery !!!!


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Appreciate your thoughts in this post. I tend to trust fwc.more.than federal.scientists at this point. But that is just me.


Better check into FWC's plan to turn the gulf into a catch and release only fishery before you trust them too much. It's billed as the 2060 plan. I'll have to find the exact link...unless someone else has it offhand.
Besides....they are going to cave to noaa anyway...and we still won't be able to fish. There are plenty of red snapper out there RIGHT NOW.....despite the lies that NOAA is telling.
Sorry...I just don't trust anyone anymore.

I know there are no guarantees on a project....but the past failures seem indicate that success is less likely than failure.
Doesn't matter anyway.....nothing you or I say will make one bit of difference.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

Firefishvideo said:


> Better check into FWC's plan to turn the gulf into a catch and release only fishery before you trust them too much. It's billed as the 2060 plan. I'll have to find the exact link...unless someone else has it offhand.
> Besides....they are going to cave to noaa anyway...and we still won't be able to fish. There are plenty of red snapper out there RIGHT NOW.....despite the lies that NOAA is telling.
> Sorry...I just don't trust anyone anymore.
> 
> ...


yep


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Firefishvideo said:


> Better check into FWC's plan to turn the gulf into a catch and release only fishery before you trust them too much. It's billed as the 2060 plan. I'll have to find the exact link...unless someone else has it offhand.
> Besides....they are going to cave to noaa anyway...and we still won't be able to fish. There are plenty of red snapper out there RIGHT NOW.....despite the lies that NOAA is telling.
> Sorry...I just don't trust anyone anymore.
> 
> ...


Maybe 2016 will.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

KingCrab said:


> He just don't see how dumping in a native fish can help anything? How can taking them out & not putting them back Not help? Anything?:whistling: Bring on the Hatchery !!!!


I just don't think you can just dump fish into the gulf and expect them to survive, let alone have them mesh with the rest of the ecosystem.

What is so hard to understand about having to build the reefs/habitat first?


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## inshorecatch (Oct 1, 2007)

wasnt there a hatchery already out there on the epa property on pensacola beach.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

inshorecatch said:


> wasnt there a hatchery already out there on the epa property on pensacola beach.


nope, that was where they tested the critters.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Firefishvideo said:


> I just don't think you can just dump fish into the gulf and expect them to survive, let alone have them mesh with the rest of the ecosystem.
> 
> What is so hard to understand about having to build the reefs/habitat first?


So u can catch a fish on a line & dump it back & thats ok? face it, u want a marina.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> Better check into FWC's plan to turn the gulf into a catch and release only fishery before you trust them too much. It's billed as the 2060 plan. I'll have to find the exact link...unless someone else has it offhand.
> Besides....they are going to cave to noaa anyway...and we still won't be able to fish. There are plenty of red snapper out there RIGHT NOW.....despite the lies that NOAA is telling.
> Sorry...I just don't trust anyone anymore.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about the noaa sponsored visionary study on pages 19 and 20 where it talks about a catch and release recreational fishery by 2020? I am not awareof such a plan from fwc.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tz3z47sa-Wwq-0XXCtzXHTQ&bvm=bv.61535280,d.eW0


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

KingCrab said:


> So u can catch a fish on a line & dump it back & thats ok? face it, u want a marina.


No....many of the snapper that are released are going to die anyway.
I don't fish with a reel anymore....can't control the bycatch. Spearfishing only for me....I take only the fish I intend to take.

I don't want a marina.....unless you are offering to give me one:whistling:


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Are you talking about the noaa sponsored visionary study on pages 19 and 20 where it talks about a catch and release recreational fishery by 2020? I am not awareof such a plan from fwc.
> 
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tz3z47sa-Wwq-0XXCtzXHTQ&bvm=bv.61535280,d.eW0


That's the plan. I believe the fwc mirrors that plan....as if they had a choice.
"Many species..... are too valuable to only be caught once"


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

1. I dont think FWC has said what fish will be raised and where they will be released. I've seen where they did Black Drum down south. Why is it so had to say were gonna build a fish hatchery and raise " this type of fish" for release "here or there".
There's been alot of wishful thinking about snapper, cobia and other types, but none of that is even mentioned by anyone in charg of the project.. Does anyone really thing they are going to up the amounts of fish you can catch because of a little hatchery in Pensacola?

2. Why not charge the FWC 4grand a month lease or what ever fair market value for the land is. . If this deal is such a good deal, they should be all over that.......

Heres another article from todays PNJ
http://www.pnj.com/article/20140216/NEWS01/140216001/A-fish-hatchery-primer?nclick_check=1

Im not against it, Im just skeptical of anything without any facts. I gave up on "trust us" along time ago. If they atleast came up with an artists rendering, then we for sure would know its a lie....


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Why not use the preferred spot in the port?

Jim


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

E


dockmaster said:


> 1. I dont think FWC has said what fish will be raised and where they will be released. I've seen where they did Black Drum down south. Why is it so had to say were gonna build a fish hatchery and raise " this type of fish" for release "here or there".
> There's been alot of wishful thinking about snapper, cobia and other types, but none of that is even mentioned by anyone in charg of the project.. Does anyone really thing they are going to up the amounts of fish you can catch because of a little hatchery in Pensacola?
> 
> 2. Why not charge the FWC 4grand a month lease or what ever fair market value for the land is. . If this deal is such a good deal, they should be all over that.......
> ...


The planned capacity is reported to be 3-4 different species of fish. There are a lot of people pushing for.cobia outside the fwc system. But agree have seen no definitive plans on which species would be raised. 
The plan requires a.vote by the city council to approve the lease. Doubtful. That approval could.happen now. So fish hatchery doubters need not worry.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Firefishvideo said:


> That's the plan. I believe the fwc mirrors that plan....as if they had a choice.
> "Many species..... are too valuable to only be caught once"


Show me where fwc plan mirrors that plan....the fwc is non-compliant with federal snapper.season again in the gulf this year. If you know the story it is much to the dislike and chagrin of Fed fisheries southeast director one Dr
Roy Crabtree. So fwc has pushed back even if slight against Fed fishery management. 

If you can't see that I have a hard time believing a back and forth debate concerning the fish hatcher is worthwhile.


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

Burnt Drag said:


> You folks need to take a closer look at PNJ. Owned by Gannett, they have media holdings all over the U.S. They will report an armed robbery and describe the suspect to a tee. It was a tall man in blue jeans with a blue shirt. They didn't report at all, the conviction of C. Ray Nagin, former mayor of New Orleans (chocolate city). See, the proposed fish hatchery doesn't in any way benefit their pet group. So, since that $$ for the fish hatchery has no upside for them, they crap all over it. Follow the money and the idiots.


What does "chocolate city" mean? Like we give sh-t what happens in New Orleans politics….


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## cuzmondo (Oct 1, 2007)

jim t said:


> Why not use the preferred spot in the port?
> 
> Jim


EXACTLY!

It's already there, already a non-taxed asset, and the Port loses money every year anyway. It's not being used for anything else. The Bruce Beach property, contrary to what others may think is valuable waterfront property. It should be sold and developed as such. Marina, condos, waterpark, what ever, but not the hatchery. And to say no one would build or locate a restaurant or condo there is short sighted, just look west of it for proof.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

cuzmondo said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> It's already there, already a non-taxed asset, and the Port loses money every year anyway. It's not being used for anything else. The Bruce Beach property, contrary to what others may think is valuable waterfront property. It should be sold and developed as such. Marina, condos, waterpark, what ever, but not the hatchery. And to say no one would build or locate a restaurant or condo there is short sighted, just look west of it for proof.


Yeah. Had to have a charitable citizen come forward to develop west of there. As I stated earlier no one cared about the property until the hatchery concept came.along. no one is looking to develop Jack Crap along that portion of the bayshore and people that are against the hatchery will ensure it never gets developed. Fisherman against hatcheries. There's your sign.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

http://www.salmonnation.com/essays/hatcheries.html


So there's that. 

What exactly is your argument FOR the hatchery? Other than free money that comes with strings attached and 'nothing else is going on' at that property?


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

http://usfwsnortheast.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/sturgeon-stocking-success/


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019316918_salmon02.html


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/lo...cle_de822455-582b-5536-a758-5c7a9c8d9e41.html


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Apparently that isn't all there is too that. Just like the pnj's half azzed reporting.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Who will receive the $18M check? Will you get any...will I? Someone will benefit should the plan go through, but I doubt it will be any of us.

The tired old statement that X dollars invested to support one of these projects will results in XXX of economic benefit to the community is just plain bunk. Benefit to who? I never received a check from any of these bogus public/BP money projects and my real estate values are still in the toilet. Follow the money and you will see who the real beneficiaries are.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

If the plan doesn't go in escambia county the 18 million will go to Walton county for a fish hatchery over there. They (Walton county) are hoping it doesn't go in escambia. You know what since few seem to care about it in pensacola I think Bruce beach should be left for the hoboes and coyotes... Walton county deserves that money more than pensacola / escambia does.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Send the hatchery and money to Walton county they want it!


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

a said:


> What does "chocolate city" mean? Like we give sh-t what happens in New Orleans politics….


It was a nationwide story that PNJ and Gannett ignored. You seem to have forgotten Nagin's words regarding the return of it's Katrina displaced citizens. Nagin claimed New Orleans would once again become a "chocolate city." You miss my point, though, PNJ and Gannett only run stories that promote their agenda, which is the main reason they barely exist in Pensacola anymore.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Walton County has their plan ready. Bet they don't turn construction jobs and 17 hatchery jobs and 18 million down. Who needs a job in pensacola anyway. Lmao

Jobs, education, enhancement of tourism and recreation are being highlighted as some of the benefits of establishing a fish hatchery and marine plant nursery in Walton County.
Brett Boston, executive director for the Wildlife Foundation of Florida, addressed the Walton County Board of County Commissioners at a special meeting on Oct. 28 at the Walton County Courthouse, presenting information on the possibility of a local fish hatchery/marine plant nursery facility.
Boston explained that his organization is the nonprofit arm of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and represents the latter organization on hatchery initiatives across the state, working on public/private partnerships to put these facilities in place and provide for their operation. He also referred to the facilities as marine enhancement centers.
For over three years, he told the commissioners, the Wildlife Foundation of Florida has been working to assemble a network of hatcheries in Florida, with each facility operating with the support of local partners. There is a focus not only on the enhancement of native fish populations but on the marine plants that are such an important part of their habitat. These plants, Boston explained, are key to current restoration efforts in the gulf.
The reason for setting up a network of these facilities, Boston said, is that many Florida fish are very specialized in their genetic composition and behavior. It is generally not easy to produce fish in one area of the state and successfully move them to another area, he commented.
Therefore, he said, his organization has been working for a number of years on acquiring land in many areas of the state, along with doing engineering and design for these facilities.
Recently Walton County requested that Boston put together a cooperative partnership to examine the possibility of a hatchery/marine plant nursery or marine enhancement center in the county.
Working with Walton County, Northwest Florida State College, the Choctawhatchee Basin Alliance, and other partners, design concepts for a Walton County Marine Enhancement Center are underway and possible locations for the facility have been investigated, Boston commented. There has been discussion, he added, on how the partners could share space at the facility, on an “integrated working concept,” and on how to proceed with the initiative if county officials were to make the decision to do so.
He said a facility of approximately 60,000 square feet is envisioned, with a focus on greenhouses for production of marine plants for restoration.
“We don’t have a major nursery for the restoration efforts currently underway in the gulf, particularly for marine plants,” Boston told the commissioners. He noted that seagrass and other marine plants have been “really hard to come by,” in the current endeavor to restore the gulf in the wake of the BP oil spill.
Boston explained that marine enhancement centers also rely on plants for filtration of the hatchery effluent. Water coming from the hatcheries’ plant filtration system is then used for growing plants, he noted.
“It’s really an interesting recycling system, very green, and it gives us the plants we need to restore the fishery so we have the habitat out there for those juvenile fish that we might release to grow in,” Boston commented.
He said the college had requested 4,000 square feet at the facility for lab space in which water quality monitoring would take place. This would provide the capability for water quality monitoring within Walton County, Boston noted. He said the college had also requested space for a reef structure in connection with an oyster shell recycling effort that is underway, in which shells are collected from restaurants and other sources. The shells, he explained, are used for habitat restoration.
Likely fish species to be raised in the Walton County hatchery would be red snapper, red drum, and sea trout, and it would also be possible to raise gulf flounder, Boston said. These are recreational sports species that could be released for catch, he commented.
He revealed that there had been preliminary discussion with Northwest Florida State College about siting the Marine Enhancement Center on a 30-acre property directly on Churchill Bayou that the college has leased from the state. Boston said it would be possible to locate a very nice plant growing area on the south side of the property. The property features a natural drain area to the bayou that would be capable of being restored and put “back in shape,” he noted.
Boston said a plant nursery on the property could be very important in providing marine plants for restoration to counties in the region and to the state.
He told the commissioners that his organization has a standard hatchery design that is very modular and can be modified to suit any particular site.
District 5 Commissioner Cecilia Jones asked Boston how many jobs the Marine Enhancement Center would produce.
He responded that he had requested that an economist begin a study to determine that. However, basing his answer on a similar facility in Pensacola, he estimated a minimum of 100 jobs, not counting those associated with the construction of the center.
“You can easily look at 100 sustainable jobs,” Boston told Jones….
Read the full story in the November 3, 2011 edition of the Herald Breeze.
Filled under: Local News | You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Comments are closed.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

JoeZ said:


> As for the money going away, how about this: I'll give you this box worth $20. It's yours to keep and keep and keep and we'll put it right here where something good could go one day.*
> This box will not bring in much in terms of a return - limited jobs, no rent return to speak of and not much revenue tax to worry about - but you'll have to pay about $1 a year to keep the box. Unless the weather gets bad then you might have to rebuild the box entirely. And it'll probably cost more.*
> 
> So, yes, take the money and move the F on. It would only cost the city money in the long run. But hey, free money!!! What could go wrong.*


According to the article, the best use for the site is a (nother) park or water access. I suppose those cost nothing to build maintain? How much property tax does that generate?


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

WhackUmStackUm said:


> Who will receive the $18M check? Will you get any...will I? Someone will benefit should the plan go through, but I doubt it will be any of us.
> 
> The tired old statement that X dollars invested to support one of these projects will results in XXX of economic benefit to the community is just plain bunk. Benefit to who? I never received a check from any of these bogus public/BP money projects and my real estate values are still in the toilet. Follow the money and you will see who the real beneficiaries are.


You cannot debate this type of person, they cannot be reasoned with. Hopeless troll full of bitch and vinegar who can't see that a flawed plan could hurt the area more than letting it go. Sometimes it's better to pass on a sketchy good idea. 

He also can't see that fishermen aren't against hatcheries. Good hatcheries are a boon to everything in our sport and local area. This is just not a good plan.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Lmao
> 
> 
> Hey it's looking up for the homeless.downtown.. now they can sleep with blankets downtown. Or maybe they can commute downtown from "Sean's outpost".
> ...


You should go down and talk to some of the homeless. And have some compassion.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

JoeZ said:


> You cannot debate this type of person, they cannot be reasoned with. Hopeless troll full of bitch and vinegar who can't see that a flawed plan could hurt the area more than letting it go. Sometimes it's better to pass on a sketchy good idea.
> 
> He also can't see that fishermen aren't against hatcheries. Good hatcheries are a boon to everything in our sport and local area. This is just not a good plan.


I would much rather see the waterfront land be used to generate tax income for the city.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Walton County has their plan ready. Bet they don't turn construction jobs and 17 hatchery jobs and 18 million down. Who needs a job in pensacola anyway. Lmao



17 jobs? Oh man... what an economy booster.... lmao.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

aroundthehorn said:


> You should go down and talk to some of the homeless. And have some compassion.


I have tons of compassion. But if you think homeless and bums should be sleeping on the streets wandering and begging I can't help you.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

You really can't expect much of an intelligent discussion with a guy who says (types, whatever) 'azz'. I mean, c'mon. Azz?


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> I have tons of compassion. But if you think homeless and bums should be sleeping on the streets wandering and begging I can't help you.


In the holy name of our Lord and Savior, I pray for you...


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

It may only be 17 jobs but once this plan goes to Walton county I don't want to ever see one of you whiners on here crying about how there are no jobs in escambia count or pensacola. The city leadership went out and sought and fought this project and got some jobs. But all most want to do is take a big squat on the project and then turn around and cry about how there aren't any jobs and no one invests in the city.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

aroundthehorn said:


> In the holy name of our Lord and Savior, I pray for you...


Pray for yourself and invite a bum to live in your place in the city.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

JoeZ said:


> You really can't expect much of an intelligent discussion with a guy who says (types, whatever) 'azz'. I mean, c'mon. Azz?


Isn't there a camp fire to report on in Santa Rosa today?


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

The fact is, the 18 million dollars will be used to build the facility, after that, where will the funding for this project come from? Those 17 people have to get their salary paid somehow... let's say they make 30k a year, that's just over half a million dollars a year in PAYROLL! who the hell is going to pay for that?

Let Okaloosa have it... this isn't going to be a money maker.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Pray for yourself and invite a bum to live in your place in the city.


May an angel lift your heart up on velveteen wings...

Srsly, Cola's gonna Cola, etc. etc.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

aroundthehorn said:


> May an angel lift your heart up on velveteen wings...
> 
> Srsly, Cola's gonna Cola, etc. etc.


Sweet Lord Jesus!
You are right and I am done. Cola is gonna cola. Turn down money and jobs and whine like a baby there is no money and jobs


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't feel like going back through all of this. What type(s) of fish do they plan on raising?


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

MrFish said:


> I don't feel like going back through all of this. What type(s) of fish do they plan on raising?


 The type that die within days of being released into an environment that can not support them.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> The type that die within days of being released into an environment that can not support them.


I was wondering if they were going to rear the endangered red snapper.:whistling:


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## Flounderpounder (Oct 3, 2007)

Funny how so called adults can't have a discussion without hurling insults and name calling. Sometimes it seems like a thread is dominated by 5 year olds. Don't parents teach civility any more??????


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Isn't there a camp fire to report on in Santa Rosa today?




There's your intelligent discourse. Such a winner.


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## 52fish (Feb 27, 2008)

Go check out the Texas Saltwater hatchery @ www.tpwd.state.tx.
If you are on this forum and against this hatchery you need to find another hobby.


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## Randall2point0 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wirelessly posted



52fish said:


> Go check out the Texas Saltwater hatchery @ http://tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/management/hatcheries/ccacpl.phtml
> If you are on this forum and against this hatchery you need to find another hobby.


Hey that link didn't work.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm not against the hatchery... just against the location.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

^^^ Yeah. Nobody is against the idea of A hatchery. It's just the current plan for THIS hatchery. 

How do you people keep missing that point?


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> According to the article, the best use for the site is a (nother) park or water access. I suppose those cost nothing to build and maintain? How much property tax does that generate? How many full time jobs?


Good question...


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

JoeZ said:


> ^^^ Yeah. Nobody is against the idea of A hatchery. It's just the current plan for THIS hatchery.
> 
> How do you people keep missing that point?


Sounds like here you are against a hatchery altogether?



JoeZ said:


> The hatchery is not an industry. The hatchery would supply very few jobs. Why waste the concrete?
> 
> The fish raised in hatchery also are not really suitable for wild stock a lot of the time so if we did have te habitat to support more and more fish - and we don't, excellent point firefish - these farm raised fish are not always desirable.
> 
> Could Pensacola use $20 million? Sure. Who couldn't? Would it do our area any long term good? No probably not.



Anyways, if you think the problem is just with this particular hatchery proposal, what could be changed about the way it is being proposed that would make you and lots of others get on board with it? Seems to me like just by using the existing port location you are still going to have all of the same issues and arguments that are being put forth. 

Me personally, I don't see how a hatchery could really hurt anything, not like developers are exactly beating down the doors to build something on that piece of property. If BP donating a $20 million hatchery in Pensacola brings the city to it's knees in such a dire way as you all are describing then there is obviously some deeper rooted issues with Pensacola that need to be addressed...I think we all realize that is already the case, hatchery or not. 

The way I see it is Escambia County and the city of Pensacola are the real problem here that would make it difficult for anything that goes there from being successful, so I guess since we can't change that we just shouldn't allow anything to be tried at all???


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

Go here for a nice presentation:
http://fmfei.org/Gulf Coast Marine Fisheries Hatchery %26 Enhancement Center

Click the big black area and it will show you all kinds of pretty buildings proposed. How about cutting the fluff and spending it on substance?
Each click in that black box area will give you the next image.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Just to kind of veer the arguing, what would the actual advantage of a hatchery be? I am not going to read any links, just want to know what people think about having one.

Interested in any real replies and I haven't a single dog in the fight.

I recall the arguments about the ball field when I moved here; this was after the plan had been approved and the stadium was underway. As an outsider, too, I can say that this is a really interesting city with a lot of wrangling going on. Have also run into some great people who drive the economy.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

aroundthehorn said:


> In the holy name of our Lord and Savior, I pray for you...


How many are living in your house?


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Burnt Drag said:


> How many are living in your house?


People? About 10, all on and off of EBT. Depends on the time of the month.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

I am wondering where they are gonna get the donor eggs and sperm?
Do they keep a school of adults for egg harvesting? 
Go out and catch wild adults at spawning time?
Either way the event only happens once a year.
A hatchery can only accommodate x amount.
Which is less then the proverbial drop-in-a-bucket.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> I am wondering where they are gonna get the donor eggs and sperm?
> Do they keep a school of adults for egg harvesting?
> Go out and catch wild adults at spawning time?
> Either way the event only happens once a year.
> ...


Ya know, JBB, if our RS season wasn't right in the middle of the RS spawn season, this hatchery may be unnecessary. You wouldn't believe the amount of roe that the pinfish behind the boat feast upon.


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

From a PNJ article today:
While the Conservancy does not 100 percent oppose the proposed fish hatchery on Pensacola Bay in downtown Pensacola, it would like to see more data to support its purpose and a high level of oversight to gauge whether it’s affective if it’s built.“The Florida hatchery project has a good link to lost use, which is lost recreational angling days and is appropriate for NRDA Early Restoration,” she said. “We would like the proposal to provide an estimate of lost angling days to strengthen the link.”

That last sentence is a question about the hatchery that has yet to be answerted or really discussed, other than very general. Since FWC is running the proposed hatchery, they should be able to tell us, HOW MUCH MORE fishing we will have. Personally I dont think it will be much if any since they are only talking about black drum and sea trout. 
If they got snapper grouper and cobia into the conversation, it might get some interest going, but for now were not hearing ANYTHING about the big 3.

As far as the marketing part of the deal for the land, I'm pretty sure the value went up after the Maritime park and other developments in the area. Someone would be willing to pay more than a buck a year for that land for a business basically within walking distance of downtown. I'm sure with alittle landscaping, you could lessen the view of the tanks. Mabey the tanks wont be there forever anyway.


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## chworr (Aug 18, 2010)

*fish hatchery tours*

Check out some of fish hatcheries open for tours. See how it's done, how we can make it better, promotion ideas. Just a "taste" of what could be.
Just search through YouTube for fish hatchery tours; aqua farm tours to see just how great this could be for our area.


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

Firefishvideo said:


> I just don't think you can just dump fish into the gulf and expect them to survive, let alone have them mesh with the rest of the ecosystem.
> 
> What is so hard to understand about having to build the reefs/habitat first?


You mean....that 20 million small fry born and fed in captivity, then dumped into the water will not do anything other than be nourishment for the existing predators? How could you come up with that? They are fish. Even though they may not have that born in the wild survival instinct, they can swim. 

But HELLO! The light just went off. Maybe, we could all go there for our live bait needs. Maybe they could figure some way to raise shrimp. 

Has anyone ever been around a fish hatchery? We have one just south of us here that raises trout. The rearing tanks have to be drained and cleaned every so often, and if the wind happens to be blowing in the right direction it smells just like a bunch of rotting fish. Wonder why?

Hope ya'll get the money and that it is used wisely.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

New plan for the hatchery unveiled late Tuesday night. 


http://dicksblog.biz/hayward-offers-changes-hatchery-proposal/


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

I think its a huge waste of money. You don't try to fix the ecosystem staring at the top! You start at the bottom. Pensacola Bay only has less than 10% of its original grass beds. Dumping fish into the bay is just a waste of money. You have to have the habitat these fish need to survive. Tampa Bay's grass beds were in really bad shape and they have made great progress restoring them. It would be nice to have healthy enough grass beds to support scallops again! If you rebuild the habitat the fish will come!


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

JoeZ said:


> New plan for the hatchery unveiled late Tuesday night.
> 
> http://dicksblog.biz/hayward-offers-changes-hatchery-proposal/


Tell me that link is a joke right?


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Caddy Yakker said:


> Tell me that link is a joke right?


If you need me to tell you ...


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

JoeZ said:


> If you need me to tell you ...


I didn't catch the site on my phone the first time


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Caddy Yakker said:


> I think its a huge waste of money. You don't try to fix the ecosystem staring at the top! You start at the bottom. Pensacola Bay only has less than 10% of its original grass beds. Dumping fish into the bay is just a waste of money. You have to have the habitat these fish need to survive. Tampa Bay's grass beds were in really bad shape and they have made great progress restoring them. It would be nice to have healthy enough grass beds to support scallops again! If you rebuild the habitat the fish will come!


PENSACOLA - In his weekly newsletter, Pensacola Mayor Ashton Hayward wrote a long note and response to a recent WEAR story about the Gulf Coast Marine Fisheries Hatchery and Enhancement Center at Pensacola's Bruce Beach. Here is the Mayors newsletter response: Last week, local TV station WEAR ran a story about the proposed Gulf Coast Marine Fisheries Hatchery and Enhancement Center, which Ive been working to bring to Pensacolas Bruce Beach. I strongly support this project as a key component of our economic and environmental recovery from the damage caused by the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill. In addition to the 12-15 permanent jobs created by this facility, an additional 20-30 construction jobs will be created, representing more than 1,900 worker-days. Once online, the facility is also expected to create new jobs in the commercial fishing and tourism industries. WEARs story raised a number of questions about the effectiveness and impact of the proposed facility. Unfortunately, while my office shared all the facts with WEARs reporter, a lot of important information didnt make it into the report. I know that it can be challenging to fit everything into a two-minute story, but its important to me that our citizens are well-informed, so I wanted to take a moment to share the facts with you directly. While WEARs story focused on the fish hatchery component, theres a lot more to this project. The proposed Hatchery and Enhancement Center would be a flagship facility which would help diversify our downtown waterfront, provide a destination for visitors, and further bolster Pensacolas growing reputation as a center for research and innovation. *An integrated coastal habitat plant production pond will provide source plants for ecosystem restoration. In partnership with the University of West Florida, the hatchery will conduct research to support the Gulf Coast ecosystem. Additionally, there will be educational opportunities provided for students throughout the region*, and the center will also recognize the history and heritage of the Bruce Beach site. Many of the technical and environmental questions that have been raised have been addressed in considerable detail in the NRDA draft restoration plan and environmental impact report, available online at the Gulf Spill Restoration Portal. As we examine the project, its also important to note that the Hatchery and Enhancement Center is one of more than 40 interconnected restoration projects currently being considered, including millions in funding for seagrass recovery, living shoreline projects, and more. Taken separately, none of these projects is a cure-all, but together, these projects will have a tremendous impact toward restoring the Gulf Coast ecosystem. Those who know me know that I am a strong believer in doing due diligence. The multiple federal and state agencies which comprise the NRDA trustees including the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Environmental Protection Agency, and Department of Agriculture are thoroughly vetting each of these projects both separately and as a whole. Scientists and other experts are working to ensure that the projects selected represent our best opportunity to restore both our natural resources and coastal economy. Anyone who would like to submit their own project idea for consideration may still do so via an online project submission form. Citizens will also have an opportunity to learn more about the proposed hatchery and other restoration projects at an open house and public meeting to be held on Tuesday, January 28, beginning at 6:00 PM at the Pensacola Bay Center. In the meantime, I invite you to contact Initiatives Coordinator Eric Olson at [email protected] with any questions you may have. Im extremely excited about our proposed Hatchery and Enhancement Center and the tremendous benefits it will provide for Pensacola and the greater Gulf Coast community. I hope you share my excitement, and Ill continue to update you on this project and others as we work together to take our community upward in 2014. 

Read More at: http://www.weartv.com/template/cgi-...ies/archive/2014/01/HIVf40Q5.xml#.UwRV2Y7nZpV


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

The facility should have been branded / marketed from the get go as an ecosystem restoration /educational facility with a hatchery capability....

As far as condos and other use tax revenue go I spoke with a city councilman yesterday that told me there had been over 15 plans for various condominium buildings approved in the city from 2000 - 2013 none of which ever broke ground due to lack of financial backing and investor interest.

Additionally, I learned that the Bruce beach site would require significant environmental mitigation due to use of the land over the years and that environmental mitigation would either require the city to shell out cash to clean the property up before sale or it would require a yet undetermined buyer to do so. The BP funding currently allocated for this project would cover the cost for the environmental cleanup required at the site.


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