# Lets talk Wahoo spread



## syrupdawg

Im new to bluewater fishing so if figured I would ask a few questions on here for the more experienced fishers. 

Lets concentrate on Wahoo for this post. What is your favorite trolling spread and speed? Im in the middle of stocking up my arsenal of lures and thought maybe I could get some input from here. I will be fishing out of Mexico Beach if that makes a difference.


----------



## Chris V

Its easier for me to list the things I _*haven't *_caught a Wahoo on like live chickens, beach balls, pool noodles, etc.

I'd keep it very simple. Use tried and true lures that pull well from all positions in the spread and can be used with both light and heavy tackle. If I had to choose five lures to pull for Wahoo it would be:

-Ilander/ballyhoo combinations; blue/white is a proven color but just about any color will take them
-Mold Craft Wide Range in black/orange, purple/silver and many others, but those two colors are my top picks
-Braid Little Speedy or Yo-Zuri Bonito in orange/black. Once again, many other colors work but I know which one I usually pull
-Tormenter Super Smoker jethead- They are much cheaper and catch just as many wahoo. They stay down at high speeds but aren't too heavy to incorporate into a spread at slower speeds. Pull with or without ballyhoo
-Mann's Stretch 30 in any color, but bright colors usually are killers. You can't pull these as fast, but they will usually run up to 7 knots and are the ace-in-the-hole when the fish are deeper


----------



## Chris V

I'm going to go ahead and add a couple things:

Pull the plugs from your flat/transom lines. Plugs can get out of tune or "washout" from turbulence. When this happens they can make a real mess of the spread if they are further back with other lures.

Get at least one blue/white Iland Express to pull with a Horse Ballyhoo. I can't tell you how many Wahoo I've caught on that thing. I like to pull it on a flatline tight to the transom but it can be used anywhere in the spread


----------



## syrupdawg

Chris V said:


> Its easier for me to list the things I _*haven't *_caught a Wahoo on like live chickens, beach balls, pool noodles, etc.
> 
> I'd keep it very simple. Use tried and true lures that pull well from all positions in the spread and can be used with both light and heavy tackle. If I had to choose five lures to pull for Wahoo it would be:
> 
> -Ilander/ballyhoo combinations; blue/white is a proven color but just about any color will take them
> -Mold Craft Wide Range in black/orange, purple/silver and many others, but those two colors are my top picks
> -Braid Little Speedy or Yo-Zuri Bonito in orange/black. Once again, many other colors work but I know which one I usually pull
> -Tormenter Super Smoker jethead- They are much cheaper and catch just as many wahoo. They stay down at high speeds but aren't too heavy to incorporate into a spread at slower speeds. Pull with or without ballyhoo
> -Mann's Stretch 30 in any color, but bright colors usually are killers. You can't pull these as fast, but they will usually run up to 7 knots and are the ace-in-the-hole when the fish are deeper


Okay I was already planning on running a Yo-Zuri Bonito and a jet head of some sort. I read somewhere about using the Mann's for wahoo also. I guess Im just getting anxious to get out and fish. Just trying to learn from someone that has more experience than me (which doesn't take much!)


----------



## Realtor

anything blue and white or black and purple... I have caught them on pink lures too, just about anything you can catch a King mac on, a wahoo will hit... and there more....


----------



## Chris V

The Mann's plugs are great but I don't use them as often in a general spread with a lot of surface baits because of the slower speeds you usually have to go with a stretch. 

I really like them on choppy days when I'm forced to slow down. I'll run either a pair of them or one Mann's and one Yo Zuri and then pull Ilander/ballyhoo combos on the riggers since they are light and don't require a lot of speed for good action


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

There is no one magical wahoo spread. While subsurface lures certainly catch their share of lures, and if I am targeting meat fish, I do like to have a yozuri bonita in the spread (or similar lure), we catch just as many wahoo going after large 16" marlin lures. More than anything, if you're not where the fish are, you're wasting your time. Watch your bottom machine too, most often the fish you see holding 60-100 feet under a weedline are wahoo. 

When you want to specifically target wahoo, that is when it's a good idea to start trolling rigs in 200-600 feet of water with a 3 line spread of divers; or even better, live baiting. Wintertime is prime for the rigs from fort morgan west back to texas.

Captain Woody Woods
www.paradise-outfitters.com


----------



## 301bLLC

Wire or mono leader...that's my question!


----------



## Ocean Master

With hard baits like YoZuri I have been using 300 lb. mono or fluorocarbon with great success. Also the Mcmahon snaps that pull straight all the time.


----------



## Kim

The first thing you need to decide upon is what kind of lures and spread you going to use and that will depend on if you have out riggers and down riggers or not. 

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/techniques/12-wahoo-fishing-techniques

http://fishntexas.com/tips_interesting_lure_spreads.htm
This is the suggested spreads from Williamson Lures, a copy packaged with each lure.

Once you have determined what your spread is going to be, you should to practice deploying it, determining how many waves back each lure position will be, type of lures will determine speed.

I recommend removing the treble hooks from deep diving lures and replacing them with J type Raptor hooks because they are easier to remove from the fish and harder to hook yourself with.

http://www.terminatortackle.com/hooks-oti.php#sthash.Sjy1hV9j.dpbs

If you fish with the same group all the time a little practice deploying the spread and clearing lines would be a good idea, streamline the procedure. It's a good idea that you have a practiced procedure in place before ever hooking a big fish.

Who is on deck to take the knock down rod, who is going to clear lines, who is going to leader the fish, who is going to gaff, who is going to apply the fish billy stick? If everyone know who is going to do what and when you will be a lot more successful.

- When knock down occurs, don't slow down until on angler has the rod. Then only slow enough to let him fight the fish, do not slow to drift and do not go into neutral. Keep tension on the fish at all times, it just got it's mouth ripped up hitting that hook at speed.

- Clearing lines is the Captains' decision and the anglers clearing lines know who they are, for Wahoo I'll clear the side it hits on, for Bill Fish and a rocketing Mahi, I'll clear all lines.

- Leader angler will leader the fish to the side of the boat and the gaff angler will put the steel to the fish. 

- Gaffing towards the boat is the only way to do it. A head shots are best and a tail shots are the worst spots to gaff fish. Gaffing away from the boat may find you watching the fish and the gaff swimming away from the boat at high speed.

- This is how I recommend boating the fish. Leader the fish to the side of the boat, the gaff angler controls the fish, the billy angler subdues the fish with one or more proper applications of the fish billy stick. This allows you to remove the hook safely and quickly. Now box the fish and bury it under ice. You don't want to dump a bloody pissed off fish with razor sharp teeth to snap at any and everything around it, especially in a center console boat, not a lot of room to run.

- Another important thing that you don't see mentioned much here is pay attention to the waters around you for busting bait fish. If you see bait fish surface scatter it's because something is trying to eat them and what ever it is, is something you would have fun catching. So not only does the crew pretty much have specific jobs to do to land a fish now they have to spend time as look outs because when you see the bait scatter and the spotter keeps it pin pointed to guide the captain to the area, it lets the captain get the boat into the area presenting your lure spread to the predators.

You will learn as you go but anything you can practice ahead of time will increase your success rate. Trolling spreads for King Mackerel is great practice for Wahoo and Bill fish and it will make things smoother when you have a hook stuck in a big Hooters lip. Last but not least you are not the only one's out there for that fish, even on days when you do everything right, it's possible for something to go way wrong.


----------



## Kim

Another thing to think about if you are going to fish for Wahoo seriously, it is to fish with someone that has experience and gear so you can see what they use, how they rig it and what lures produce. The other thing to do is hire a Captain to take you out a time or two to school you up. Tight lines to you.


----------



## 301bLLC

Kim, that was greatly appreciated information!


----------



## Chris V

That's a sad pic there Kim 

I pull my plugs on #9-10 single strand wire and all skirts on 200-300lb mono


----------



## Kim

Chris that is like my favorite fishing pic because I was driving the boat and that hooter had three guys grab the rod and decide it was too much. About the time I started getting line in at a good rate I saw the shark roll behind it as it hit. I'm pretty sure it was a big Mako and it chomped that fish off in one bite. I should have dropped the head back to it again but I told the owner to power up and get us out of there. I would have had fun with that Mako but the other guys wouldn't have.


----------



## syrupdawg

Some great info in this thread already! What depths do you generally find yourself trolling for wahoo in?


----------



## Downtime2

Alot folks round here who don't run to the rigs to fish, fish in 200-400 feet parallel to the edge from south of the Alaska all the way round to the Pinnacles. Loooong ledge and depth change. Productive too...


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

I fish my diving lures on wire, about 36 inches or so. Most all of my big lures when pulling for marlin have cable hooksets, so biteoffs rarely, if ever, occur. 550# mono.


----------



## Chris V

Downtime2 said:


> Alot folks round here who don't run to the rigs to fish, fish in 200-400 feet parallel to the edge from south of the Alaska all the way round to the Pinnacles. Loooong ledge and depth change. Productive too...


This^

I do enjoy wahoo fishing at the rigs but it's a further run from OB. I spend most of my wahoo time between the 50 and 100 fathom lines. The wahoo action is consistent and most trips will see a couple shots on billfish to add to the action along with dolphin and tuna


----------



## bombtosser

Tons of good info that people are always looking for. Any chance mods can pin this to the top?


----------



## Chris V

Get a subscription to a satellite imaging service like Hilton's Realtime Navigator. This will help you find major temp breaks, upwellings and other important info that can lead you to more Wahoo and other Pelagics. We highlighted productive depth lines but deeper structures like the spur and double nipple can also be Wahoo hotspots when major upwellings bring nutrients to the surface in these open water areas. Hilton's site will show you these anomalies


----------



## 301bLLC

Garmin says that the WX service I am subscribing to will show the temps, rips and marine biologists opinions on where specific species are most likely to be. Come May I'll find out how well it works.


----------



## DAWGONIT

great thread.
majority of hooter bites/catches we have had has been either on a planer, or using a 32 or 48oz torpedo lead to get it deeper into the column.

all bites were on lures rigged with ballyhoo either skirted, or something like a jet head. primary colors: black/purple/dark red. there is an occasional naked ballyhoo bite, but the lures make them look larger.

good luck & catch 'em up.


----------



## syrupdawg

I actually just subscribed to Hilton's last week! I called Tom and he spent 45 mins on the phone with me explaining different features the site had.


----------



## Scruggspc

I've got my note pad out guys!


----------



## Kim

Here is a good option to get lures deeper in the water column. Using a down rigger or a planer will get your lures deeper and it makes them more visible from below with the boat prop wash above it. Covering more of the water column will increase your chances of a strike. I like to rig this position with a horse Ballyhoo behind a lure , a medium size Ballyhoo behind a Sea Witch or a small naked Ballyhoo.

With both down rigger and planer it may be possible to leave them deployed while boating fish if the circumstances permit and you can send down a new lure bait combination with a double snap swivel and a rubber band connected to the mainline. You can also deploy deep diving lures and get them really deep, but I'd use a line release in place of a rubberband.


----------



## Kim

Rigging Ballyhoo is fairly easy and there are many different ways to do it. Here are a few links that show a few methods of rigging Ballyhoo.

http://www.fishtrack.com/how-to/the-ballyhoo-quick-rig_101861






http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/techniques/bait-fishing/ballyhoo-101

Rigging Ballyhoo bait/lure combinations will help you catch more fish but there are things that you can do that will make your Ballyhoo better baits. Brining your baits will keep them on the hook better and longer than not.

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-brine-fish-baits-214848.html?cat=14


----------



## Chris V

Cable on your planers! I have lost whole lure/planer setups due to 'hoos actually hitting my high speed #8 planers. I now always attach a shirt section of cable ahead of my planer for safekeeping.

I'll also add on the downrigger options; it pays to spend the extra money and get either pancake-style weights or a Z-wing. These will stay deeper with less cable out


----------



## Kim

These are some basic deep diving lures. The top two pics are deep divers and the bottom pic aren't such deep divers but they will sometimes work as well. 

The Manns are rigged with #400 49 strand cable, #300 split ring and swivel at lure, swivels at leader end rigged with medium SS thimble as chaffing gear and crimped with double crimps. The swivel at the lure and the heavy cable doesn't affect the actions of these lures since it is so aggressive and it will prevent line twist if you go too fast and it pops and spins. I also rigged these with SS 9/0 or 10/0 hooks which I feel are a lot safer to handle than the trebles because they are easier to get out of the fish.

The Braids are rigged with #400 49 strand cable, split ring on the depth hole of choice, Flemish Twist is used at lure split ring, swivel at leader rigged with medium SS thimble for chaff gear and crimped with double crimps. These are rigged with factory hooks.

The YoZuris are rigged with #400 momofilament, medium SS thimbles at both ends for chaffing, connected to lure with split ring and crimped with double crimps. These are rigged with factory hooks.


----------



## Kim

These are just a few of the trolling weights you can use to get the lures deeper or for higher speed trolling. As you can see the smaller weights have and eye at one end to connect to the mainline and a snap swivel at the other to connect to the lure leader. The larger trolling weights have a through wire, 49 strand cable molded into the weight with an eye to connect to mainline and a snap swivel to connect to the lure leader.


----------



## Kim

These are two planers I use, the top planer is a #32 and the bottom one is a #8 HSP. 

The #32 planer is has a #400 49 strand cable leader about three feet long with a swivel at leader end and a heavy duty snap swivel to connect to the planer ring. The Planer line is 50 feet of # 400 monofilament wrapped around a hand line spool, a heavy duty snap swivel to connect to the planer cable swivel, other end crimped is to a heavy duty swivel, 3/8 inch samson braid line spliced to the of HD swivel at one end with a SS thimble and a eye spliced on the other end to secure to stern cleat. All connections are double crimped. The #32 planer is a monster and is ideal to get bigger deep diving and big skirted lures down deeper. Mainlines can be run to a quick release clip at the back of the planer or the quick release clip on the cable leader. If this one gets a strike with no hook up or a lost fish, I bring it up and rig lure and send it all back down. You do have to slow a bit to haul this one up.

The HSP #8 came factory rigged and it's good enough for small to medium sized lures and smaller deep diver lures.. It's pretty much the same as the #32 except it has about 40 feet of #300 monofilament, no SS thimbles for chaffing and 1/4 inch sampson line with the eye made by whipping the line together. The #8 will take a little more speed than the #32 and I'll send the lures back down using double swivels and rubber bands. This doesn't get the lure back down to the planer but it will get it half way to it. 

Like Chris said earlier, cable is a good thing on these, I have cable on the big ones because I had something eat one once and it was hooked to the stern cleat for about 5 seconds. You can buy the #8 HSP rigged and on the #32 I rigged that the same as the #8 except I used #400 mono, 3 feet of cable to the planer ring with a release clip in the middle of the cable.


----------



## Kim

These are some of the lures that can be trolled at higher speeds because they have heads that taper to a point or are long and heavy. The top C & H Lure is rigged with 10 feet of #400 49 strand wire, the 9/0 hooks are 180, double crimped, the hook is double crimped with a SS thimble for chaffing, the hook is spaced with beads so the the curve of the hook extends beyond the skirt, the leader end has a double crimped medium SS thimble for chaffing. 

The second C & H Lure is rigged with 10 feet of #300 monofilament, a 9/0 hook is rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing, double crimped, spaced with beads so the curve of the hook extends below the skirt and the leader end has a medium SS thimble for chaffing and is double crimped. Looking at this lure you can tell it gets hit, the skirt is pretty chewed up but I'm not going to fix something that still works.

The Black Bart Rum Cay Candy is factory skirted, rigged with 10 feet of #400 monofilamant, the hook is SS 10/0, rigged with thimble for chafing, Sea Striker SS spring/pin, double crimped and hook is spaced with beads so the curve of the hook is below the skirt. This lure is rigged to be used with large Ballyhoo or without. will run at higher speeds because they have a long heavy head. 

The fourth lure I don't remember the name/make of it, it's rigged with 10 feet of monofilament, SS 9/0 180 double hooks, rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing gear, double crimped, spaced with beads so the curve of the hook is below the skirt and the leader end has a medium SS thimble double crimped to a swivel. 

The fifth lure is a small jet head rigged with 6 feet of #200 monofilament, The leader end is rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing, double crimped and a 8/0 hook rigged with a small SS thimble for chaffing and double crimped. 

The bottom lure is a small bullet head, 9/0 hook, rigged with a small SS thimble for chaffing, double crimped, spaced with beads so curve of hook is below skirt and the eader end has medium SS thimble for chaffing and is double crimped.

When it comes to these type lures, the heavier they are the faster they can be trolled and you can use trolling weights to help keep them in the water. When you decide to start experimenting with high speed trolling make sure your equipment is up to the task, reel drags have got to be smooth and set your drag just high enough to not loose line to the trolled lure. It's a good idea to have at least 50 yards of line appropriate monofilament (#60 minimum) line as a top shot if the reel is spooled with braid. Braid doesn't stretch much at all but the monofilament does and that will take some of the load off the rod and reel drag upon strike rather than put it all on the flex of the rod and the reel drag. There is a world of difference in the high seed hook up of 20 - 30 lb fish and 50 - 100 lb fish. Reels spooled with monofilament won't hold anything like those spooled with braid and the line will come screaming off those reels at 15 + knots combined with a blistering run by a Wahoo. Needless to say it's a good idea for someone to pay attention to the spread even if you have the reel clickers on.


----------



## Kim

These are some lures that are designed to leave a good bubble trail which is referred to as a smoke trail. 

The top two are small 1 1/2 oz chugger lures, cup faced with jets, on a 6 foot #300 monofilament leaders, a 10/0 Jobu hooks rigged with a small SS thimbles for chaffing, double crimped, and the leader end is rigged with a medium SS thimble for charring and double crimped. 

The two Williamson poppers are rigged with 9/0 hooks and the leader is 3 feet of #400 49 strand cable rigged to a swivel with a medium SS thimble which is connected to the split ring, double crimped, the leader end is rigged with a medium SS thimble and double crimped. Although these aren't conventional trolling lures at slower speeds and when trolled 4 - 6 knots they make tremendous splashes and leave a huge smoke trail. 

The Ilander Cruiser lures are chuggers with cupped faces. The Black/Purple Flasher has a 14/0 SS hook rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing, Sea Striker pin/spring for Ballyhoo, double crimped, spaced with beads to put the curve of the hook below the skirt, 10 feet of # 300 momofilament, the leader end is rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing and is double crimped. This is one of the Wahoo lure magnets. The Blue/White Cruiser has a 10/0 SS hook rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing, Sea Striker pin/spring for Ballyhoo, double crimped, spaced with beads to put the curve of the hook below the skirt, 10 feet of # 300 momofilament, the leader end is rigged with a medium SS thimble for chaffing and is double crimped. These are loud, splashy, leave a great bubble trail and these are rigged for use with preferably large (horse) Ballyhoo. 

The bottom two are small jet heads, 8 feet of #200 monofilament, 8/0 hook is rigged with a small SS thimble for chafing, double crimped and the leader end is rigged with a medium SS thimble and double crimped. 

Something to keep in mind, with the same lures rigged with Ballyhoo your trolling speed will be less than it is with out them. If you go too fast you will wash them out. Brining them will help toughen them up as well as help them keep their fresh silvery looks.

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/showthread.php/74842-The-best-way-to-brine-a-ballyhoo


----------



## Kim

These are used to catch Bonito or Mackerel for live baits or belly type baits. The top ones are 1 oz Tormentors and Billy Baits with mylar skirts. One is rigged with cable for when toothy is known, three feet #400 49 strand cable double crimped at hook and swivel. The next 2 have #200 6 foot monofilament leaders, double crimped at hook and swivel. The bottom ones are kind of daisy chain rigs. Take a 3 foot length of # 200 49 strand cable, crimp swivel onto cable having 1 foot and 2 foot tag ends, on the 2 foot tag end crimp on a small Clark Spoon and on the 1 foot tag end crimp on a 4/0 long shank hook behind a mylar duster. 

Keep in mind that some of these smaller sized lures the flashy mylar skirts are held on with basically a rubber band. To make them tougher and last longer a serving of waxed rigging thread over the rubber band is all it takes. Above 10 knots you can actually pull the hair off these with the resistance of the water

http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/rigging_natural_baits/rigstripbait.html

Handy thing to do when you get cleaned out by Kings, Bonito and short strikes, it will let you put some scent with your trolled lures. Sewn bellies baits won't wash as fast as belly strips will.


----------



## Kim

The Sea Witch is a simple and very effective duster rig. The leaders are 8 feet of #200 monofilament with a double crimped SS thimble at one end and on the other double crimp a 9/0 tuna hook under a Sea Striker SS spring/pin behind a mylar skirt. They are rigged with Ballyhoo and are used to target Wahoo, Mahi, Tuna and Billfish. Brining the Ballyhoo is recommended because it toughens them up and preserves their fresh silvery look. If you are going to target Tuna or marlin, make the leaders at least 15 feet long and #250 - #400 monofilament.

http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/rigging_natural_baits/rig_ballyhoo.html


----------



## Kim

Unless someone beats me to it, the next post will be some lures laid out in the pattern of a spread as I would deploy them for Wahoo.


----------



## jcasey

That is some awesome information that this thread is giving up. Only bad thing is, it makes me realize that I don't know shit !


----------



## syrupdawg

Kim said:


> Unless someone beats me to it, the next post will be some lures laid out in the pattern of a spread as I would deploy them for Wahoo.


Awesome! I appreciate you taking time to post pictures


----------



## fishboy

Excellent thread. I have yet to just target wahoo, other than high speeding the last couple of miles to my destination. I think we will try a planer off one of the clears this year! Do you think this would deter the pointy nose fish from coming in the spread? I'm always pot luck fishing with a mix of ballyhoo and plastics hoping for dinner and a photo op with the blue one.


----------



## Chris V

fishboy said:


> Excellent thread. I have yet to just target wahoo, other than high speeding the last couple of miles to my destination. I think we will try a planer off one of the clears this year! Do you think this would deter the pointy nose fish from coming in the spread? I'm always pot luck fishing with a mix of ballyhoo and plastics hoping for dinner and a photo op with the blue one.


I have logged a very noticeable absence of bills while pulling planers and downriggers. I think that unlike a dredge or spreader bar, the naked hardware and erratic movement may at points attract bills but ultimately spooks them. I'm far from the only one who believes this too. If bills are high on the priority list, I leave the deep stuff out or set my long riggers and center further back to entice bites from bills that shy away and back into the spread


----------



## Kim

I'm giving a little advice to be taken at face value on the topic of mainly rigging for Wahoo. Billfish is another topic totally and Chris is going to take care of that one. Every one doesn't rig the same so what I like may not satisfy someone else, longer shorter, heavier, lighter, different size or what ever and I hope they chime in because the more information you have to work with the shorter your learning curve will be and you will be able to incorporate new tips and techniques that fit your style of fishing.


----------



## Chris V

I am not a billfish pro by any means. I catch a few here and there and they are always appreciated but I love the tiger-striped scissor mouths in the fishbox. 

Keep going Kim, you're doing great as far as I'm concerned


----------



## Kim

Later today when I get over the terror of seeing ice outside and get my domestic chores finished, I'll try and wrap up my view/style of Wahoo fishing on this post. I will lay out various lures in the pattern of the spreads I use to specifically target Wahoo. I'll take pics of the spreads and identify the lures(some I can't remember). When I'm fishing for Wahoo anything else caught I consider it a bonus. I hope others will share their experience and techniques as well. This is a good opportunity to use the forum to share information on equipment and techniques and different approaches with the same goal in mind, to put some Wahoo into the fish box when the bait comes back!


----------



## Kim

These lures I keep in a Plano water tight box which I'll bring when fishing with someone else and they say they may troll a little. It's my just in case drawer and has a little of everything in it. A few deep divers, a couple lures that will run true at higher speeds, a couple specifically for Wahoo, Sea Witch rigs, King mackerel duster rigs, lures for Bonito, a couple jet heads and a couple Ilander Flasher Express. Most of the lures are rigged to take Ballyhoo, you can use large Cigar Minnows in a pinch. All of this fits into one box and has proven that it's handy to take along. Rubber bands are included in case I have to flat line off the reel handle, also I should put a morticians needle and some waxed rigging thread in there for rigging tuna belly baits.


----------



## Kim

I was going to try and take the easy way out on the spread posts and just post the pics.... But since I started this I should finish as I intended. Lets get the positions fixed in our minds first thing. I won't go into detail about hook size, leader size/length and terminal tackle because I covered that basically in a previous post. The first two lures from the bottom are the port and starboard short corners (PSC/SSC) also called flat lines, the next two are the port and starboard short riggers (PSR/SSR), the next two are the port and starboard long riggers (PLR/SLR) and the single is the shotgun (SG).

If you don't have out riggers on a center console boat treat the most aft rod holder as the short corner (PSC/SSC) or flat line, the next rod holder forward as the short rigger (PSR/SSR), the shotgun (SG) can be mounted in a rod holder behind helm seat (centered) or in the T -top rod holder if available (I'd use a tether on this rod for sure).

Putting a tether on each rod may be considered a bother by most people but it can save the day for you not to mention an expensive rod and reel setup. You would be amazed that some million dollar plus boats have the rod holders secured with three stainless wood type screws securing it to the boat, not through bolted and no backing plate of any kind. With smaller production boats that is the norm for mounting the rod holders in the gunnels, drill holes, caulk and screw it down. You should check how well your rod holders were installed before you target the really big fish and remember an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

The first spread pic

PSC/SSC - Stretch 30 
PSR/SSR - Mylar Sea Witch with medium Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - Mylar Sea witch with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Small chugger jet head rigged with medium Ballyhoo

The first spread pic option 1

PSC/SSC - Mylar Sea Witch with medium Ballyhoo, down with planer/down rigger or flatline
PSR/SSR - Mylar Sea Witch with medium Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - Mylar Sea Witch with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Small chugger jet head rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Second spread pic

PSC/SSC - YoZuri Bonita
PSR/SSR - Ilander Blackhole rigged with medium Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - The Ilander rigged with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Small chugger jet head rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Second spread pic option 1

PSC/SSC - Ilande Blackhole rigged with medium Ballyhoo, down on planer/down rigger or flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Cruiser rigged with large Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - The Ilander rigged with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Ilander Sea Star rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Third spread pic

PSC/SSC - Ilander Hoo-La Hood rigged with medium Ballyhoo, down on planer/down rigger or flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Express rigged with large Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - The Ilander Sea Star rigged with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Ilander Cruiser rigged with large Ballyhoo

Third spread pic option 1

PSC/SSC - Ilander Express rigged with large Ballyhoo flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Express with daisy chain squid rigged with large Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - The Ilander Out Rider rigged with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Junior Ilander rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Fourth spread pic - This is a killer spread on flat as glass seas

PSC/SSC - Ilander Cruiser rigged with medium Ballyhoo flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Cruiser rigged with medium Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - Ilander Cruiser rigged with medium Ballyhoo
SG - Ilander Express rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Fourth spread pic option 1 - This is another killer spread on flat seas 10- 12 knots

PSC/SSC - Ilander Express flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Express 
PLR/SLR - Ilander Express with daisy chain squid 
SG - Ilander Express 

Fifth spread pic - This is another killer spread on flat seas 6 - 8 knots

PSC/SSC - Ilander Sea Star rigged with small Ballyhoo flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Sea Star rigged with small Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - Ilander Sea Star rigged with small Ballyhoo
SG - Junior Ilander rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Sixth spread pic - These are Chaos lures and some are no longer manufactured. The lures are heavy and run well, 6 - 15 knots

PSC/SSC - Chaos Wahoo Jet large on flatline
PSR/SSR - Chaos Wahoo Jet small
PLR/SLR - Chaos Wahoo Jet small
SG - Chaos Cedar plug (metal)

Seventh spread pic 

PSC/SSC - Black Bart Crooked Cay Candy flatline
PSR/SSR - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy
PLR/SLR - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy
SG - Black Bart Canyon Prowler

Seventh spread pic option 1 This spread runs well at higher speeds 10 - 15 knots

PSC/SSC - Black Bart Wahoo Candy
PSR/SSR - Black Crooked Cay Candy
PLR/SLR - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy
SG  - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy


----------



## Kim

Here are a few more, the top pic is about what I start with as a basic spread and tweek it from there. All of these lures have caught numerous fish on previous trips, you want every lure in the spread to be a winner. If the first strike is on a Black Bart lure I make them the majority of the spread and will do the same for which ever lure type/color pattern takes the strike. Give the fish what they want, if they are hitting it, they want it.

First spread pic

PSC/SSC - Black Bart Crooked Cay Candy rigged with medium Ballyhoo on flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Cruiser rigged with medium Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy
SG - Don't remember the name of that lure but it does catch fish

First spread pic option 1

PSC/SSC - Black Bart San Sal Candy on flatline
PSR/SSR - Ilander Express rigged with medium Ballyhoo
PLR/SLR - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy rigged with medium ballyhoo
SG - Junior Ilander rigged with medium Ballyhoo

Second spread pic

PSC/SSC - Williamson El Dingo rigged with double 180 hooks on flatline
PSR/SSR - Offshore Angler Bullet Head
PLR/SLR - Black Bart Rum Cay Candy
SG - Williamson El Dingo with tuna skirts for daisy chain


----------



## BFP IV

Chris V said:


> I have logged a very noticeable absence of bills while pulling planers and downriggers. I think that unlike a dredge or spreader bar, the naked hardware and erratic movement may at points attract bills but ultimately spooks them. I'm far from the only one who believes this too. If bills are high on the priority list, I leave the deep stuff out or set my long riggers and center further back to entice bites from bills that shy away and back into the spread


How about lipped diving plugs in a spread. Do you feel they will turn a billfish away?


----------



## Kim

I have never heard of a billfish caught on a lipped deep diving lure.


----------



## Chris V

A customer of mine from LA hooked, fought and lost an est. 700lb Blue Marlin about 12yrs ago that hit a Rapala CD 22 in Red head/white. 

In general, I don't pull lipped plugs in my spread at 7 knots and above to prevent washout-induced, nightmarish tangles especially with the teasers I'm most likely pulling near the transom. I don't necessarily think they will prevent bites though. I'd rather have that position in the spread covered with something that can be pulled faster. Like I said back several posts, if Wahoo is the goal and billfish are not desired by the crew, then I have no problem with lipped plugs since my spread can be adjusted more leniently and teasers aren't as high on the priority list.


----------



## Chris V

Great posts Kim


----------



## Kim

It takes more time than I thought it would to post these. I'll post some spreads with jet heads and some chuggers tomorrow and I'll call it quits on this. If someone wants to post high speed lure spreads for Wahoo, please do, my old fingers are getting wore out here. Teasers aren't the norm for Wahoo but I have seen a few show up all lit up giving the fish eye to the teaser.


----------



## fishboy

this is great - gets me all amped to run offshore. But then I checked the Marine Forecast...


----------



## TeaSea

Scruggspc said:


> I've got my note pad out guys!


My desktop is covered with post-it notes!!!:yes:

Guys this kind of info I would consider 'fishing school' and since I moved here from Okla I am still in First grade. I have learned sooooo much from this forum and I am thankful I found it.


----------



## Kim

Thanks to Downtime2, we have a chart with the Edge highlighted with yellow pins. We'll call the 250 foot contour line the Edge and will loop back and forth across the Edge landwards to around 180 feet and seaward to about 400 feet once the spread is set. We're looking for bait fish or fish marking on the bottom machine, paying attention to the rods, looking for fish busting and bait fish scattering on the surface. Bait fish are the key, if the bait is there then something is eating them. More Wahoo and Mahi will be caught by trolling through areas where bait fish were seen scattering on the surface than trolling just a blind course. 

The next thing we want to know is are there any conditions out there that would concentrate the fish in particular areas? This information is available at a lot of different sources. Florida-Offshore.Com User Account , Hilton's Realtime-Navigator , Roffer's Ocean Fishing Forecasting Service, Inc. , RipCharts - Rip Charts - Find the Rip ,. I recommend Hiltons for recreational fishing and Roffers for tournaments (look at Hiltons, determine where the best conditions are and then compare it to the paid subscription). Using this information we can plan a trolling route and an alternate or two because sometimes things don't always go as planned and we already have an alternate plan in hand. We have planned our route based on on areas of favorable conditions that overlap the deep wrecks, boat hulls and structure along the Edge. 

Trolling over wrecks, boat hulls and structure near the Edge we use a little boating etiquette and not infringe on someone already fishing there. If no one is on the spot we will slow down before passing over the wreck, making a sharp turn ensuring lines don't tangle when it's half way between the boat and the spread. This will pretty much stop the momentum of our spread and it will drop deeper into the water column over the spot. Powering up through the turn and after will cause the lures to speed up and rise to the surface. This type of lure action imitates erratic swimming/injured bait fish eliciting predatory strikes. After a couple of passes over the spot, if there are no knock downs or or fish showing on the bottom machine, we continue the trolling route. If marked fish are suspected to be Wahoo (small group hanging at 50 feet or so) we could change the spread configuration and lures and make another pass or two. If no hook ups, reconfigure the spread and continue trolling the route. For a decent rip we would fish the clear edge, the temperature break on the cool edge and the up current side of a weed line. Schoolies busting bait are always a good reason to pull in the spread for some spinning rod fun and an opportunity to drop a jig deep to see if something is hanging out down there.

The physical characteristics of the SW Edge combined with the water currents/nutrients and an abundance of bait make the area around the Nipple a food rich environment and the predator fish will find it and feast. Some call it the Wahoo triangle, going south from Pensacola towards The 131 Hole. from there NE to the Nipple then W to intersect the track from Pensacola and back to the 131 Hole. By varying the track a couple hundred yards covering new waters, looking for concentrations of bait fish, surface action, weed lines etc. When you have a knockdown, mark the spot on your GPS so that after boating that fish, you can make another pass of two before continuing your route.


----------



## syrupdawg

My new and first wahoo lures came in today! I can't wait to take these swimming


----------



## DAWGONIT

syrupdawg said:


> My new and first wahoo lures came in today! I can't wait to take these swimming


those will certainly work; good luck & catch 'em up! :thumbsup:


----------



## syrupdawg

DAWGONIT said:


> those will certainly work; good luck & catch 'em up! :thumbsup:


Supposedly they can be trolled at around 16 knots without trolling weights.


----------



## Kim

Who is the manufacturer and model of those bad boys?


----------



## syrupdawg

Kim said:


> Who is the manufacturer and model of those bad boys?


They are big bite offshore wahoo xxl lures. They were running a Christmas special for 2 lures rigged and shipped for $100 plus their DVD and I had some $ on PayPal so figured I'd try a set out! They have screw on skirts that can be removed/replaced in about 30 seconds. 

http://www.bigbiteoffshore.com/index.php?option=com_product&view=detail&product_id=226&category_id=68


----------



## Downtime2

He said hooters....uh huh huh huh huh huh huh......


----------



## Kim

The heads of those lures are perfect with the eyes and the skirt color combinations are going to get some decent knock downs by HOOTERS!:thumbup: Make sure you watch that video and pay attention to when they talk about setting the drag while trolling those big lures. What is the rod and reel make and model you are going to be hauling them with?


----------



## syrupdawg

Kim said:


> The heads of those lures are perfect with the eyes and the skirt color combinations are going to get some decent knock downs by HOOTERS!:thumbup: Make sure you watch that video and pay attention to when they talk about setting the drag on them big lures. What is the rod and reel make and model you are going to be hauling them with?


These 2 will be pulled off 50w avet ex's with pinnacle 60-100 class all roller rods.


----------



## Kim

Those are sweet set ups for sure and you are going to have lots of fun with those. I watched a Pinnacle Marine rod bend test on You Tube and it was incredible. Their lift test was no way high tech but it made me a convert and believer in their rod building capabilities and their prices are reasonable.


----------



## Downtime2

Don't forget, ANY floating debris is a golden opportunity. A good set of eyes is everything. For example, when working a push or line, keep your eyes roaming either side. Logs, limbs, stumps, crab trap buoys with a long tailing rope....anything of consequence. I have seen a blue, a white, several decent dolphin and wahoo come off one single piece of 1" rope probably 20' long. A knarly old pallet will hold a ton of bait. Bait=bite...


----------



## 4wahoo

This is good stuff to pass a winter cold snap! Try switching the stretch 30's with Rapala Magnum X-rap 30's. I rig them with 90lb 7strand. The difference is they run 1000x better, especially at higher speeds than the stretches. We've ran 4 of them at once at 11-13 knots off the back of my center console. I caught some of my biggest dolphin of the year on it too.

I've been considering getting a couple of Ballyhood Banshee's, anybody had any experience with them?


----------



## floorman1

*Banshees*

I was wanting to try those too.has anyone tried them how fast can you pull them?


----------



## Kim

Here is a link to the Ballyhood Lure Homepage. I have fished with these lures and they produce Wahoo and the larger sizes don't need trolling weights. I prefer large jet head lures (round bullet head) and the Wahoo jet lures (Pointy head) myself. I was hoping that a diehard that trolls the Banshee lures on a regular basis would give a 101 post on high speed trolling ( 15- 25 knots).

http://ballyhood.com/


This site has some great information concerning weights, shape of heads and speeds of lures trolled. You might want to take a look just for general information, this data will give you a great starting point from which you can tune your spreads/speeds depending on sea conditions.


----------



## Kim

I found a video that shows how to rig Cigar Minnows, Spanish Sardines and Ballyhoo using the Sea Striker quick rig.


----------



## Kim

The first spread is chaos lures.

Second pic is larger Chaos Jet Head

Third pic is large Chaos jetted chugger

The second spread

PSC - C & H Lures Big Daddy, short mylar skirt, single hook
SSC - C & H Lures Big Daddy, long rubber skirts, double hook 180
PSR - R & S Lures Wahoo Lure, mylar skirt, double hook 180
SSR - R & S Lures Wahoo Lure, mylar skirt, double hook 180

Fifth pic is frontal view of R & S Lures Wahoo lure 16 oz

Sixth pic is frontal view of C & H Lures Big Daddy 16 oz

The Third Spread

PSC/SSC - R & S Lure #41L
PSR/SSR - R & S Lure #41L
PLR?SLR - R & S Lure #41L
SG - R & S Lure #41L


----------



## Kim

First spread pic

PSC/SSC - C & H Lure Tuna Witch, skirted long with double 180 hooks
PSR/SSR - C & H Lure Tuna Witch, short rubber skirt, single hook. 
- C & H Lure Tuna Witch, short mylar skirt, single hook
PSR/SLR - C & H Lure Tuna Witch, short mylar skirt, single hook. 
- C & H Lure Tuna Witch, short rubber skirt, single hook.
SG - C & H Lure Tuna Witch, skirted long with double 180 hooks

Second spread pic

PSC/SSC - C & H Lure medium Jet Head, quick rigged octopus skirt, double hook 180
- C & H Lure medium Jet Head, long rubber skirt, double hook 180
PSR/SSR - C & H Lure Tuna Witch, rubber skirts, single hook
- C& H Lure Tuna Witch, mylar skirt, single hook
PLR/SLR - C& H Lure Tuna Witch, mylar skirt, single hook
- C & H Lure Tuna Witch, rubber skirt, single hook
SG - C & H Lure Tuna Witch, long skirted, double hook 180

That's it for me on this post and I'm glad. It takes a little time to dig out lures, take pics, put the lures away, post them and put the comments in. I hope that it has been informative and thought provoking for some forum members. If I've made errors feel free to correct them and by all means your comments are welcome. This time of year fishing is kind of slow so it would be nice if other members would post various topics related to fishing in our area. If someone would step up and cover the high speed trolling aspect of Wahoo fishing that would be great.


----------



## Kim

The parting shot here! You will always hear match the hatch and it is good basic advice. At the slow end of trolling that advice will pay handsome dividends in the fish box. It's also a good idea to mix up color and type of lures to find out which are getting hit and loading your spread in favor of what's working. The faster you troll your spread, the color of the lures becomes less critical and the (bubble) smoke trail becomes more important.

A funny quip and I am gone. I was fishing with a friend and he was fighting a fish and asking me to keep slowing down so he could get line in easier, every time he asked, I slowed a little more. The next thing I heard from him was "I think I just lost the fish". then the next thing I heard from him was "Hey I just saw a Wahoo swim past the boat with a lure in it's mouth and I think that's my fish, speed up". We lost that fish, it shook that hook out shortly after swimming past the boat. The moral of the story is to always keep tension on a Wahoo they can swim 60 MPH tops so they can out run most boats.


----------



## PELAGIC PIRATE

Ok Guys : Figured Id chime in here since i just came out of the woods long enough to go online ( been a long deer season )

Below this guy posted these lures which i have since forgot the name. Although they look large and the hooks look even bigger : These are the Money baits for High Speed wahoo trolling in the gulf.

We catch 2-3 wahoo a trip just high speed trolling to and from spots . We always run 2 of these monster head lures while running off each corner: we use heavy cable they come on Attached to 15 to 25 ft of 600 pound mono shock leader attached to a 24 to 48 ounce torpedo lead trolling sinker which we attached to a set of bent but 80's. We have run these up to 18 knots and have caught wahoo doing so. The money speed seems to be 12 to 14 knots and all these have caught us is Wahoo .


We troll just about every lure posted on this thread and catch fish on all of them while meat trolling, but hands down the best meathod for hooking and landing Gulf Wahoo are these giant chrome headed beasts. I ended up making my own custom color skirts for mine once the wahoo chow them off: I love Bonita colored skirts : but blue and white is a close second and orange and blk next.

This same High Speed method works well with other types of lures mentioned but the heavy head on these allows them to stay in the water at higher speeds to attract bad ass wahoo strikes. My partner just took our boat to the bahamas over Christmas and trolled this very set up and slayed the Wahoo there as well:thumbsup:

My last tip to those new captains out there that are wahoo virgins : Keep the boat in gear the entire time you are on the fish keeping the wahoo planned out : keeping the line tight keeps the wahoo on while using these heavy heads as wahoo tend to trash thier heads at gaff. Once the trolling weight comes up hand leader the wahoo up the side of the boat for a gaff shot while under way planning the fish off one side or the other. Basically you drag and drown the fish to the gaff which works every time. Stay away from the mouth with bare feet or finger too:thumbsup:

GL Guys and see you on the water soon as we are making our crossing back to OB soon as deer season ends.



syrupdawg said:


> My new and first wahoo lures came in today! I can't wait to take these swimming


----------



## spinfactor

Very, very good read. Thanks to all who contributed to this knowledge base.


----------



## bcahn

Wow, between my small group of fishing buddies and treads like this, I'm earning a masters degree! 
This community is so bless to have elders like kim(respect) sharing a world of knowledge, 
Thank you


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

Lots of good info here, thanks.
I wanted to know if anyone has used and caught fish on any of the the Ballyhood Banshee series?


----------



## Chris V

There are plenty of folks here who have used the banshee and have done well with them.


----------



## 301bLLC

badonskybuccaneers said:


> Lots of good info here, thanks.
> I wanted to know if anyone has used and caught fish on any of the the Ballyhood Banshee series?



I saw someone from P'Cola selling those on ebay. They look interesting but dang expensive. I bought 5 daisy chain rigs for the same money instead.


----------



## Chris V

I have no doubt those lures work, but I just couldn't pay that kind of money for one. There are far too many options that will work just as well (or better?) and will not set you back for 100 bucks a lure. I have plenty of expensive tackle no doubt, but most of my lures average much less than that and I guarantee they catch just as many Wahoo.


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

Chris V said:


> I have no doubt those lures work, but I just couldn't pay that kind of money for one. There are far too many options that will work just as well (or better?) and will not set you back for 100 bucks a lure. I have plenty of expensive tackle no doubt, but most of my lures average much less than that and I guarantee they catch just as many Wahoo.


My curiosity with them is they are not suppose to need a big weight to get them down, and do not create a bunch of drag. I ordered one to try out when I have a chance. If you make a couple trips out this season and think you want to try it- let me know. I'll let you take it with you.


----------



## Chris V

There are many great wahoo lures made that do not require weight to stay down. 

-Marlin Magic Big Blue
-Black Bart Wahoo Candy series
-C&H Mr Big
-Any Bluewater Eagle lures

Some of these are pricy, but not as bad as the Banshee. 

I have a high speed lure that I bought at a flea market for 3.00 that has a beautiful weighted, acrylic head. I have caught Wahoo on it almost every time it has been pulled. My Penn rep has offered many ridiculous things to get me to hand it over to him, but it'll never happen


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

*Wahoo Lures*



Chris V said:


> There are many great wahoo lures made that do not require weight to stay down.
> 
> -Marlin Magic Big Blue
> -Black Bart Wahoo Candy series
> -C&H Mr Big
> -Any Bluewater Eagle lures
> 
> Some of these are pricy, but not as bad as the Banshee.
> 
> I have a high speed lure that I bought at a flea market for 3.00 that has a beautiful weighted, acrylic head. I have caught Wahoo on it almost every time it has been pulled. My Penn rep has offered many ridiculous things to get me to hand it over to him, but it'll never happen


Not saying others don't make them for use without weights- that was a couple reasons I thought I'd try one- see what it'll do. And since you haven't used one, I'd still like you to take it out at least once and give your take on it. See if there is _any_ justification to the extra cost. From what I've seen online, they're only a few dollars more than the black Bart lures. I also still have that SugarDrop I got from you I still plan on pulling too. 
Now- that lure the Penn rep has been trying to get from you- I don't suppose it's a brand name- or at least has some brand name components- What color(s)- style? Three bucks?!?! Probably never find one of those again!




> The Banchee high speed lure can be trolled 14-20 knots with "No Trolling Weight Needed"! This eliminates all the wire line and knot tying. The open faced head provides virtually no resistance and keeps these lures running at ridiculously high speeds! Troll them on the way to the canyons and back to maximize your fishing time on the water! Use with an 80 lb class outfit to handle the speeds and weight of the fish. Set drags lower than normal to prevent snapped lines. 7 colors.


----------



## Chris V

The lure is clear acrylic with a holographic foil wrap over the lead that is molded inside the head. The top of the head is pigmented purple fading to blue and then the clear bottom 2/3rds. Its a beautiful head and stays in the water at speeds up to 18 knots. There is zero brand/designer insignia on it. Whoever made it did a great job though.

Its funny though. I had it in my lure trays on the ay out and my rep asked me about it. I told him how much I payed for it and that I catch a Wahoo on it every time I pull it. We pulled it later that afternoon on our way in and caught a Wahoo on it.


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

Chris V said:


> The lure is clear acrylic with a holographic foil wrap over the lead that is molded inside the head. The top of the head is pigmented purple fading to blue and then the clear bottom 2/3rds. Its a beautiful head and stays in the water at speeds up to 18 knots. There is zero brand/designer insignia on it. Whoever made it did a great job though.
> 
> Its funny though. I had it in my lure trays on the ay out and my rep asked me about it. I told him how much I payed for it and that I catch a Wahoo on it every time I pull it. We pulled it later that afternoon on our way in and caught a Wahoo on it.


Guy who made it probably took the mold to his grave- 
like the butcher here *many* moons ago who had the best hotdog recipe anywhere- even had some bigshot lunch meat company offer big bucks for the recipe. Took it to his grave.  Maybe we would want to know after all. :blink:

Seen any other lure close to it? Probably hasn't been anything like it at that flea market since. And I bet you've already tried to replicate it... Got a picture of it- you got my curiosity up... Maybe I just need to come see it (secret weapon?)...  Sounds like a priceless item now!!
Just yanking your chain Chris- getting kinda cabin fever here, Cookie has been sick- Haven't really been out anywhere in a while. Anyway- maybe you have something like it at the store we can play with... I'll try to stop by in the next couple weeks.


----------



## Kim

I have fished on boats that fished the Banshee spreads. They produce a tremendous smoke trail and that's their selling point because they draw a lot of Wahoo knock downs. I'm like Chris, I have a lot of lures and they catch Wahoo when I target them. If I didn't have a bag of heavy lures already I would definitely buy some to fill out my spreads of high speed lures. You can google the HS Lures online and find a wide array. There is always a new hot lure hitting the water I'm sure at a few least catch more anglers than fish.


----------



## Kim

Alright I guess I may as well try and finish up with a little on high speed trolling. I'll just try and get some of the basics out here and you will have to give it a shot and fine tune it for your boat, crew and style. It's much easier to post links for some things because those people are professional writers and they present the information well and don't forget half of what they want to say like I do sometimes.

The Florida Sportsman has a great article for some of the basics.

http://www.floridasportsman.com/2011/05/16/gear_g_9807_high/

Tormenter makes great lures for Wahoo and their article tells how to deploy them. I have some of these lures and they work great. Their site also has a pretty good description of how to place which lures where and how to troll them. The key point to keep in mind will be the shapes and weights of the lures when they talk about them in the spreads for when we are using similar lures.

http://www.tormentertackle.com/fishing_tips_for_wahoo

Once again I'll post the Sport fishing magazine because they give some spreads and distances that will give us a starting point for our spreads.

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/techniques/12-wahoo-fishing-techniques

http://www.floridasportsman.com/2011/11/04/features_northeast_florida_wahoo_fishing/

http://miamifishing.com/fishing-reports/miami-fl-late-summer-trolling-tips

Here is a review of some high speed lures, kind of surprising which ones they picked but that may have a lot to do with being advertisers. I will say that the heavy Ilander lures are awesome, I use them myself.

http://www.fishcrack.com/product-review-top-5-high-speed-wahoo-lures-of-2013/

I recommend reading through the linked articles for the basic information. Keep in mind that your high speed trolling will be mostly between 15 - 20 knots. Above 20 knots your equipment limitations become more critical exponentially with speed. For the anglers fishing from center console boats with outboard engines, finding and maintaining trolling speeds is much harder than it is on a sportfishing boat. I think most CC boats are right at the planing jump off at around 20 knots or so and this calls for a delicate touch at the helm on the throttles.

As you can imagine after reading through this and doing a Google search on lures, making a decision on what to buy to start out with can be an agonizing decision. The high speed lures are divided into two basic groups. The first group consists of the heavy lures that require no trolling weights in front of them. These are easier to use because you don't have to deal with the trolling weight as far as deploying, retrieving and boating fish is concerned. If you don't have heavy high speed lures already, I would recommend searching the internet to find the best deal possible. The second group consists of the lures you can use but require a trolling weight to make the track right at higher speeds. These lures are found at all of out local tackle shops as they are not specialized items and just about everyone stocks them.

The first group of heavy high speed lures, we want lures that will weight between 16 to 48 ounces maximum. A conical shape is best, bullet shape works as well but with increased drag, jetted lures will produce great smoke trails, the bigger the jets the better, mylar/flash skirts will resist sharp teeth better than the plastic skirts, these are the things we want to look for. We will rig them with at least an 8/0 hook rigged on #400 49 strand cable, chaffing gear at hook and swivel and use quality swivels. 

The second group of lures for high speed trolling are those that require a trolling weight to make them track and keep them in the water at higher speeds. Again we are looking for streamlined, conical and long skirted lures. When the bait fish are thick trolling a long, thin, feathered tuna lure behind a 8 oz weight can be deadly 400 feet behind the boat. You will find that any pointy lure will track well behind a trolling weight, just remember the closer to the boat the heavier the trolling weight needed. The speed of the boat and the weight of the trolling weight are pretty much directly proportional. For example we will take the classic Wahoo Whacker lure. At 20 knots 50 feet behind the boat it will take a 48 oz trolling weight to keep it in the water and tracking, at 150 feet a 32 oz trolling weight will do the trick, at 250 feet a 24 oz trolling weight works and at 300 -400 feet the 16 oz weight keeps it tracking just fine. Water conditions have an effect as well. The rougher the seas equals more weight needed to keep the lures tracking and the flatter the seas equals less weight required.

When it comes to rigging a lure with either #400 49 strand cable or #400 monofilament I tend to put the cable on lures that I don't want to lose (expensive) or lures that have caught a crazy amount of fish. That may not be logical to some but that's what I do. It may not be recommended by all but I use some monster hooks on some of my Wahoo rigs especially the high speed ones and I make sure the hooks are scary sharp. Every component used in rigging the lure and leader are all high quality because they are going to take a beating and it's not the place for going cheap.

When deploying high speed lures it would probably be a good idea to start out with one or two until you get a little experience doing it and the big Ballyhood Banshee lures are not the ones to learn on because odds are you are going to lose a lure or two pretty quick in the beginning. With that in mind the best choice for us would be a 16 oz jet head lure because we can deploy with out a trolling weight by running them farther back.The learning curve will be easier by keeping it as simple as possible. 

Our basic set up will be a 30W reel (preferably a two speed reel) mounted on a a 30 class rod capable of #60 - #100 line, spooled with #60 - #80 braid with a top shot of #80 monofilament. The monofilament top shot is necessary because it acts like a shock absorber when a fish hits by stretching because the braid won't. This set up will work with the 16 oz jet head lure we are going to troll. At a speed of 8 - 10 knots we will put the pure out and let it out at least 200 feet to see how it tracks with just enough drag set on the reel to keep line from pulling out. At this point we start to increase the boat speed and keep adjusting the drag on the reels to keep line from pulling out. If the lures jump out of the water or they tumble across the surface we need to let more line out until it tracks true or reduce boat speed. Put the the rods in rod holders 90 degree or angled aft are best and snap the line in the release clip and wait for a knock down. When we yell fish on the angler mans up on the rod and lets the fish run a bit while the captain slows the boat and hits mark on the GPS, angler pushes the drag to set and fights the fish. Once the fish is boated and the spread deployed again the captain can go back to the knock down area that he marked for another pass or two.

Having a good quality release clip mounted at the stern will be a big help in getting the lure to track true and it will also let us have a shorter scope of line out than straight off the tip of the rod. It is a good idea to clip a tether onto the reel in case your rod holder isn't attached as firmly to the boat as you think it is, because almost all are mounted by drilling ta hole in the gunnel to accept the rod holder and three screws through gelcoat,fiberglass and into the wood are all that holds it down. Also remember that if you put the rod in a rod holder and the line is coming off kind of on the side of the rod, that's a recipe for disaster. If your 30Ws are modern reels with high capacity drags #40 plus you will be able to troll some of the heavier high speed lures. For the monster lures, 32 - 48 oz it is a good idea to troll them on 50W reel and rod class set ups, even better if the rods have bent butts.

Deploying multiple lure spreads we should work our way up to after having gained proficiency with two lures. You can do a four lure spread with out using out riggers but you need to make sure that you stagger your lures, PSC out to 100 feet, PSR out to 300 feet, SSC out to 200 feet and the PSR out to 400 feet and if we run a SG position 450 feet or so. The same way we would if we were trolling a spread with out riggers.

If we are going to use out riggers to deploy our spreads it is highly advisable to give them a thorough inspection first to make sure that they are in good material condition for the extra load you are going to put on them. With multiple lure spreads we will troll the biggest/heaviest lures (32 - 48 oz) off the short corner/flat line positions, the short rigger positions the medium sized lures (24 oz),The long rigger positions lighter lures (16 oz) and the shotgun the lightest lures (6 - 10 oz). If our out riggers are light weight (less that 1 1/2 inch base I wouldn't troll heavy HS lures off them, with 1 1/2 inch bases I would use the short rigger, sportfish Rupp Out riggers we are good to go and if you have carbon fiber/nano composite out riggers you won't have to worry about folding one of them.

I'll come back and post a few pics detailing the terminal rigging of heavy high speed lures as well as some of the lighter lures that are used with trolling weights. This way we can see the details of the trolling weigh/lighter lure rigs and that will make it easier to understand what we are talking about.


----------



## 301bLLC

Thanks for the effort and info in that post Kim. There is a wealth of detail on the tormentor site. Several times it is mentioned there that outriggers are very optional and not necessary for wahoo and tuna. I'm sure if there was an 8 man crew then outriggers would produce more. I have purchased release clips for the 2 corners to get those lines flat. I also understand that some heavy lures up close or trolling weights are needed. How do you attach trolling weights and what size? I have seen 3 and 4 oz for sale...and those goofy lead fish.


----------



## sniperpeeps

301bLLC said:


> Thanks for the effort and info in that post Kim. There is a wealth of detail on the tormentor site. Several times it is mentioned there that outriggers are very optional and not necessary for wahoo and tuna. I'm sure if there was an 8 man crew then outriggers would produce more. I have purchased release clips for the 2 corners to get those lines flat. I also understand that some heavy lures up close or trolling weights are needed. How do you attach trolling weights and what size? I have seen 3 and 4 oz for sale...and those goofy lead fish.


You may eventually want to get riggers for your boat. The main advantage of riggers on a CC is getting your lures in clean water outside the prop wash. A short rigger bait can be lethal. The trolling leads run anywhere from 16-32 oz and run inline ahead of your leader. You just snap them on your swivel snap at the end of your mainline and snap the leader onto the weight.


----------



## Downtime2

sniperpeeps said:


> You may eventually want to get riggers for your boat. The main advantage of riggers on a CC is getting your lures in clean water outside the prop wash. A short rigger bait can be lethal. The trolling leads run anywhere from 16-32 oz and run inline ahead of your leader. You just snap them on your swivel snap at the end of your mainline and snap the leader onto the weight.


If someone mainly bottom fishes and asks what I feel is important, I tell em' best bottom machine and chart plotter you can afford. Same with trolling. If you gonna do it, if you can afford it, riggers are a must. 3 people can keep a clean spread real easy with a little experience.


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

*Weights*



sniperpeeps said:


> You may eventually want to get riggers for your boat. The main advantage of riggers on a CC is getting your lures in clean water outside the prop wash. A short rigger bait can be lethal. The trolling leads run anywhere from 16-32 oz and run inline ahead of your leader. You just snap them on your swivel snap at the end of your mainline and snap the leader onto the weight.


I didn't see it mentioned and most of the time the large trolling weights are already rigged- make sure your trolling wights *are* rigged with wire because wahoo have a tendency to hit them- and you don't want to loose a bunch of expensive high speed trolling tackle. :thumbsup:


----------



## 301bLLC

badonskybuccaneers said:


> I didn't see it mentioned and most of the time the large trolling weights are already rigged- make sure your trolling wights *are* rigged with wire because wahoo have a tendency to hit them- and you don't want to loose a bunch of expensive high speed trolling tackle. :thumbsup:


So I need a short wire weight rig to attach to the wire lure rig?
What about when trolling for tuna with mono? You just have the risk of a hoo stealing your tackle? I'm assuming tuna shy away from wire?


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

301bLLC said:


> So I need a short wire weight rig to attach to the wire lure rig?
> What about when trolling for tuna with mono? You just have the risk of a hoo stealing your tackle? I'm assuming tuna shy away from wire?


If you are high speed trolling with a 16-32oz weight... I've heard of wahoo hitting the weights... I guess they think they are lead flying fish?

That having been said- A long section of wire is not always needed up to your lure. I do have a wahoo lure with a heavy mono leader (300#) to a short wire thru the lure to the hook for slower trolling- and I have caught wahoo on a Dorado Daisy Chain (200# mono leader w double "J" hooks & a loop shield) and landed them. Lucky? As long as they are hitting the lure - with the short piece of wire protecting it against their teeth- or in the case where they smashed the Dorado Chain and only came in contact with the double "J" hooks at the lure... So- as a precaution, some wire is necessary to prevent being cut off when trolling for wahoo, even _at the_ weight. But like I said, most Trolling weights I have seen are pre rigged.




Just my $.02. :thumbsup:


----------



## sniperpeeps

301bLLC said:


> So I need a short wire weight rig to attach to the wire lure rig?
> What about when trolling for tuna with mono? You just have the risk of a hoo stealing your tackle? I'm assuming tuna shy away from wire?



Everyone has their own preferences but I run cable on my high speed lures only. I have caught way more wahoo trolling 6-8kts on ilander/ballyhoo and plastic lures rigged with mono than highspeed lures personally. I can't remember the last time I had a hoo cut me off on a lure. I feel like once you rig a lure with wire you are taking a lot of other fish out of the equation. If you are specifically targeting tuna then it's a whole different thing altogether.


----------



## 301bLLC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=apD0woIkgxY

Great wahoo action in the second half of this vid. :thumbup: Things I noticed:
I only saw 1 trolling weight, I was looking hard too.
They left their rods in the holders. I'm not sure how well that would work with straight rods.
Bent butts almost flatline, I didn't see any release clips.
No outriggers.
The boat was always in motion.
No wire leaders.


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

I did see wire on the lures and weight


----------



## 301bLLC

badonskybuccaneers said:


> I did see wire on the lures and weight


Oh yehhh...some wire is coated. They were slaying them!


----------



## Kim

It's taken me a lot longer than I thought it would to get back to this and try to finish up with the trolling weights but I've been kind of busy lately. One thing that I'll add here in between the heavy lures and the trolling weights is what to do with the Wahoo when we the back to the fish cleaning table.

There are all kinds of knives that we as anglers use. Pretty much most of the knives that we see labeled as "fillet knives" aren't much more than bait knives. (I still haven't figured out hot to do the captions or blurbs with each pic, one of these days) The top two knives in the first pic are bait knives, the third knife I got for cutting bigger fish into steaks but I have never used for anything yet. The bottom two knives are Rapella fillet knives that work pretty good for inshore/smaller fish but not very well with bigger fish.

The second pic shows what I use for cleaning fish and you will notice that each knife has it's own blade tamer sheath to protect my fingers from getting cut and preserve the sharp edge on the knives. The first knife is a 14 inch Forschner scimitar which is used to cut big fish into steaks. It's almost short sword size but it's not intended to hack through the vertebrae. What you do is cut between the vertebrae giving you a steak. Towards the tail section you may steak between every other one to keep them uniform thickness. The second knife is a Forschner 12 inch scimitar and it the perfect size for filleting bigger fish. The third knife is a Forschner 10 inch boning knife and is the all around fillet knife. Used mostly to fillet medium sized fish but you can steak out a big fish if you're careful because it's not as easy as it is with the bigger scimitars. The bottom Knife is a Forschner 8 inch breaking knife and is the basic fillet knife, great for filleting small to medium sized fish. The best knife I've ever used on an armored Trigger Fish. It's also perfect size for trimming out medallions from Wahoo and Tuna Steaks.


Fillet knives are only good for causing frustration if they aren't sharp and the third pic shows some of the things used to put a sharp edge on them and keep them that way. It can all be done with a couple of quality sharpening stones but I for one don't have the patience for that. The most popular angle for knives in general is 30 degrees. Therefore most electric sharpeners, fixed ceramic sticks are all set at 30. The electric sharpener is usually used only once on a knife to set the angle other than that only to remove a nick. The Lansky sharpening set with various grade diamond stones are used after the electric sharpener to put a sharp edge on the blades. The sharpening steel and the fixed ceramic sharpeners are enough to keep the edges sharp if they dull a bit as you clean fish. 

When the knives are properly sharpened they will cut three ways, long, deep and continuous. After a bunch of Trigger Fish dulls the blade 25 or so licks with that red ceramic fixed sharpener and the blade is ready for the next batch.


----------



## Kim

Whew! this should be it for me on the high speed Trolling. Sorry it's taken so long but it wasn't at the top of my list. A little work and a lot of homestead chores have been keeping me busy. Also found that I hadn't taken care of the trolling weights as well as I thought I had so I had to re-rig some of them as well.

The first pic is just a kind of fish eye view of the different trolling weights. The second pic shows trolling weights is sets of two. The first pair on the left are 8 oz, the second to the right are 16 oz, the third to the right are two 16 oz weights joined together to make 32 oz ( this is the set up used to make a 32 oz set by removing the bottom 16oz weight and adding a 8oz weight) and the last set on the right are 48 oz.

In the third pic you see that the 48 oz trolling weights are rigged different from the others (factory rigged). The reason for the short end leader going to the mainline is so that when you get the fish alongside the boat, leaderman/woman can grab the weight to control it and prevent the fish from slinging it against the boat while the gaffer boats the fish. 

The forth pic shows that the terminal ends are double crimped (I had shrink tube on some of the rigging and it corroded badly because I wasn't getting it rinsed enough) because you want it to hold up against knock downs. You can see that SS thimbles are used for chaffing gear and quality bearing swivels terminate the leader connection end.

The fifth pic is to show how the 32 oz is rigged with two 16 oz weights. To go to a lighter weight just remove the right side 16 oz weight and add a 8 oz weight for a 24 oz trolling weight set.


----------



## Kim

This last set of pics just shows a few lures with the trolling weights that would be used for high speed trolling. You will note that all of these lures are either pointed at the tip or thin and elongated. Check the tormenter website and they will give specifics for lengths and weights behind the boat. If you decide to mark your lines for high speed trolling you can put a Uni Knot using waxed serving line on your mainlines to mark every 100 feet and it will go through the guides no problem and have no effect on the line strength.

http://www.tormentertackle.com/fishing_tips_for_wahoo

The first pic shows the trusty old Wahoo Whacker behind a 48 oz trolling weight and it's position is 100 - 150 feet behind the boat. 

The second pic shows the reason why I had to re-rig some trolling weights. This SS bearing swivel will clean up with a vinegar soak and a scrub with a toothbrush but the crimp needs to be replaced and double crimped. It would also be a good idea for me to rinse them off better before stowing them.

* I should have had a pic with a lure behind the 32oz trolling weights and it's position is 200 -250 feet behind the boat.

The third pic shows an R & S Lure behind a 16 oz trolling weight and it's position is 300 - 350 feet behind the boat.

The fourth pic shows various C & H lures that troll well at high speeds and are smaller meaning a pretty good hook up rate on knock downs. Some are rigged with wire and some with monofiliment.

The fifth pics shows a feathered Tuna lure behind a 8 oz trolling weight and it's position is shotgun 400 - 450 feet behind the boat. Don't be surprised if you try this and you reel in a plucked lure (a serving with unwaxed line wet with superglue helps prevent this).

A little FYI on an experiment, about two weeks ago I was lucky enough to catch a ride with Ben offshore for a little fishing. After we caught bait and headed to the first spot I figured what the heck try something out to put in the post. I took two C & H Lures like the top two lures in the fourth pic. Both were on about 4 foot #200 49 strand leaders. I put them about 200 feet back, at 26 knots 4 big rubber bands couldn't hold them down flat line. They were on 5'6" rods with Penn 30Ws spooled with #40 monofilament. The port side had the short skirted lure and it danced and tumbled over the surface until the lure broke off. The starboard side had a long skirted lure and it tracked pretty much true, however the line snapped upon knock down even though the drag was set just enough to keep line from peeling off.

The lesson in this is that if flat line release clips had been used, the port side would have tracked and not broken itself off. As for the starboard side even though things looked good, the #40 monofilament was not up to the task of high speed trolling for Bonito even with a light drag set. Last and not least, 26 knots was too fast for the lures and the line spooled on the gear.

Now for the sixth and very last pic, I hope to see everyone posting pics like that. Good luck to all this coming season and tight lines to each and every one!


----------



## syrupdawg

Man this thread has really turned out a lot of great information! 

At what points in the year do you see better results out of deep divers (ex. stretch 30s) trolled at say 8 to 10 knots over jet head or ilander type lures trolled faster at say 16 knots? 

The reason I ask is I saw on a few other posts that during the winter its better to troll the diving lures or run a planer to get the high speed lures down farther. Is that something that you see?

Basically what is the better technique for different times of the year?


----------



## Kim

Running down riggers or planers are for presenting lures down deeper in the water column at slower speeds, in the the 4 - 8 knot range. If you put a plainer down you will notice that the faster you go the more the line bellies out farther behind the boat and the planner runs shallower.

Also keep in mind that most people only troll at higher speeds on their way to a particular area. That's pretty much how high speed trolling was born, "how can I maximize my fishing and catching potential?" The answer was to innovate techniques and equipment that allows us to fish "more" under the transit conditions that we previously didn't fish. 

If you polled everyone that catches Wahoo on a regular basis, you will find that the greatest majority of them are caught at the normal trolling speeds between 4 - 10 knots. The flip side of the coin is that none of the high speed catches would have been caught if they didn't try.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

syrupdawg said:


> Man this thread has really turned out a lot of great information!
> 
> At what points in the year do you see better results out of deep divers (ex. stretch 30s) trolled at say 8 to 10 knots over jet head or ilander type lures trolled faster at say 16 knots?
> 
> The reason I ask is I saw on a few other posts that during the winter its better to troll the diving lures or run a planer to get the high speed lures down farther. Is that something that you see?
> 
> Basically what is the better technique for different times of the year?


I'll take this one, as our fishery in Venice is completely centered around pulling subsurface lures for hoos this time of year. First lesson is to watch your sounder. It doesn't matter if you're fishing shallow rigs like we are this time of year (220-600') or a nice weedline-WATCH YOUR SOUNDER. Watch it for bait, watch it for wahoo. They are usually holding suspended around 70-90' or so. Oftentimes, if the water is dirty on top, they are holding just under the color change. If you're not a diver or spearfisher, you may not have seen this horizontal plane before differentiating the top colder layer (it may be brown, it may be green) and the warmer cobalt water underneath. Anyway, this is why we use the divers. NOW, when we have really clean blue water, we will add an islander/bally combo on top, and it gets crushed. 

The divers will catch fish year long. The big hoos just stack up in close this time of year and then kinda spread back out offshore after April. Once summer comes around, the really good king mackeral guys know how to catch em consistently in shallow. But otherwise, any good floating debris or weedline will hold hooters.

And I'm not sure about a high speed on a planer, never heard of that.

www.paradise-outfitters.com


----------



## syrupdawg

Captain Woody Woods said:


> I'll take this one, as our fishery in Venice is completely centered around pulling subsurface lures for hoos this time of year. First lesson is to watch your sounder. It doesn't matter if you're fishing shallow rigs like we are this time of year (220-600') or a nice weedline-WATCH YOUR SOUNDER. Watch it for bait, watch it for wahoo. They are usually holding suspended around 70-90' or so. Oftentimes, if the water is dirty on top, they are holding just under the color change. If you're not a diver or spearfisher, you may not have seen this horizontal plane before differentiating the top colder layer (it may be brown, it may be green) and the warmer cobalt water underneath. Anyway, this is why we use the divers. NOW, when we have really clean blue water, we will add an islander/bally combo on top, and it gets crushed.
> 
> The divers will catch fish year long. The big hoos just stack up in close this time of year and then kinda spread back out offshore after April. Once summer comes around, the really good king mackeral guys know how to catch em consistently in shallow. But otherwise, any good floating debris or weedline will hold hooters.
> 
> And I'm not sure about a high speed on a planer, never heard of that.
> 
> www.paradise-outfitters.com


I wasn't referring to running a planer at high speeds. Maybe I didn't type it out like I was trying to say it! I was just asking if there was a better time of the year to get baits down deeper than other times. Thank you for the response, it answered my question perfectly.


----------



## 301bLLC

syrupdawg said:


> My new and first wahoo lures came in today! I can't wait to take these swimming


I just got mine today. These babies are huge! Bigbite has zero communication with buyers. It took almost a month to get mine. Just a heads up. Now to watch the DVD!


----------



## Kim

A quick note on split rings and swivels to attach leader to the deep divers such as Manns etc. I used a wire leader with a swivel at each end to make it easy to change lures fast just like a jig. This is all fine and well if quick change is your high priority but I'm switching back to crimping the leader directly to the lure to make it easier to tune the lure when you have to without having to remove and replace the split ring repeatedly.


----------



## Bill

Just got to bumb this post....such a good one! 
Thanks PFF!:thumbup:


----------

