# Breaking news from the Gulf Council meeting



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

I believe Sector Separation just got "un-tabled" and approved to go to scoping. That's interesting. Amendment 39 is what was approved to go to scoping.

Looks also like they will most likely be reducing the red snapper limit to one fish.

Just popped in on the meeting mid-stream, so am unsure exactly what transpired to be honest.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Please keep up updated Tom, I tried to watch the meeting online and it wanted me to download 10 different programs to watch it.... I will standby and hear the facts from you....


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## OTTE*DA*WORM (Feb 12, 2011)

Interesting. One fish limit on snapper would make it not worth the trip out into the gulf. Where can I find this information? O*D*W


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

I found this document. They pull this crap out of their rear end.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...bnO6MR8bhIudZBhfA&sig2=5zTl8cHVCSWG7Gu9nsbckw


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Sounds like they are making great strides in accomplishing their 2020 plan.


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Ridiculous about the annoying fishes...


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Just saw the 1 fish thing. WOW


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## swhiting (Oct 4, 2007)

Emily is posting on Facebook too. I can't believe I actually responded there.

Arguing on the Internet is like peeing into the wind...


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## swhiting (Oct 4, 2007)

Tom, you and Jon talk as if you have years of experience with this process.

Am I right in assuming that the recreational sector generates more tax revenue and more business than the commercial sector?

It sure seems to me that a division within the Dept of Commerce would be more inclined to generate money.

While I'm at it, i also don't understand:

* why a stock in peril can be commercially harvested.
* where are the recreational lobby groups at these meetings
* how do boat manufacturers and tackle shops not have a presence.....


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## Naby (Jan 18, 2009)

SSDD. So this is in response to the catch being over the quota? So why then did they extend the season in the middle of July? Of course there are no answers to this. I saw it on Facebook also and took my turn peeing in the wind. 

Does the state have to go along with the 1 fish limit? Could we get them involved to open a season in state waters?


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Naby said:


> SSDD. Does the state have to go along with the 1 fish limit? Could we get them involved to open a season in state waters?


No the state does NOT have to go along with the federal season. Other Gulf Coast states have their own seasons including Texas who has a year round red snapper season. Most of the federally permitted charter boats with not go along with a state season though because they would not be able to fish a state season due to the fact that they hold a federal license and have to abide by federal seasons.

In short, Florida can have whatever season Florida wants to have. To me, the easiest fight right now is a state fight instead of a federal fight...win the state, then work on the feds... It appears we won the fight with the selling of tags at the Destin rodeo... It can be won, just a long hard fight that involves EVERYONE


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## Naby (Jan 18, 2009)

Tom Hilton said:


> I believe Sector Separation just got "un-tabled" and approved to go to scoping. That's interesting. Amendment 39 is what was approved to go to scoping.


What does it mean that it got un-tabled and approved to go to scoping? I understand that means that it is progressing but I don't know how the process works.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

If we could get Romney IN, and Janet Lubchenco and her EDF corporate raiders out, we'd be miles ahead. Secter Seperation can NOT be done fairly. How they think they can do it fairly is what baffles me. WAIT, they don't care about fairness.


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## OTTE*DA*WORM (Feb 12, 2011)

So, my understanding is this effects mostly charter captains and big fisheries, not me as a private lonely fisherman, right? Also, is there a chance that the 2 per person limit can be raised for me as my own person? Say, I go down to the bay and catch 8 snapper, im good. But if i pay to go on a boat, my limit is 2? Am I understanding this correctly, although my example is theoretical? O*D*W


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## Water Spout II (Feb 26, 2009)

can someone summarize what exactly this means for recreational guys


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## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

It means night fishing.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> No the state does NOT have to go along with the federal season. Other Gulf Coast states have their own seasons including Texas who has a year round red snapper season. Most of the federally permitted charter boats with not go along with a state season though because they would not be able to fish a state season due to the fact that they hold a federal license and have to abide by federal seasons.
> 
> In short, Florida can have whatever season Florida wants to have. To me, the easiest fight right now is a state fight instead of a federal fight...win the state, then work on the feds... It appears we won the fight with the selling of tags at the Destin rodeo... It can be won, just a long hard fight that involves EVERYONE


 
I agree. Can the state fight to gain more water? Out to say 15 miles?


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

BullBoxer said:


> can someone summarize what exactly this means for recreational guys


To give you 30,000 ft overview 

Certain charter captains (namely the destin fleet) has petitioned to break away from the recreational sector and take a allocation of the quota with them. I think it is like 49% of the recreational quota of red snapper would be allocated to the charter captains to use whenever they want. This means shorter fishing seasons and reduced bag limits for recreational anglers which seems to be happening according to Tom since two states just broke from the feds. 

What I see playing out is that Jarvis (lead SOS guy) gets his allocation in the end since the Enviromental Defense Fund is paying for all of this but the states buck the feds like TX LA and MS have done. Residents will fish in state waters and only permit toters can fish for red snapper in federal waters. States then extend thier boundries to 9 NM like Florida and LA just did. 

On a personal note I think that escamiba county would be smart in preparing for this and should deploy the majority of the artificial reefs scheduled in state waters. More habitat that is available within 9NM the better chances we have of having a substainable fishery that would be completely devoid of federal interuptions. Just my .02


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

It means we are screwed. If this goes thru the chater for hire guys will get a certain percentage of the recreational quota and they have the possibility to catch and keep for snapper during certain times of the year and the private boats can't . It all boils down to the goverment regulating who can/can't catch snapper


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

how has it gone over in texas did the federal permitted get pushed out of buisness i have heard that arguement for sevral years there are realy a large amount of charter boats that never go beond 9 miles with fuel prices the past 8 years or so then there also alot of smaller faster boats that specialize in shorter trips that are combo bay gulf trips lots of these guys dont have federal permits as they never fish beond 9 miles as having been a charter fisherman,recreational fisherman,and comercial fisherman i think they all are valuable parts of our economy but to devide them has been and will continue to be a big mistake and who gets screwed by it all is the recreational guys and i think most recs and about 60 % of charter captains happily stay within 9 miles for 2 snapper per person year around but then u have those big money charter boats like jarvis ect who cant stand to see the age of garbos end are the ones with the pull in the charter industry not to mention most of those boats comercial fish all winter so the least of their intrests is the guy or girl who baught a boat to take the family fishing on in hopes to just catch the kids a fish or 2 have fun and maybe a good meal at the end of the day its time to say f the feds flordia can take back our waters and our fish let them have 9 miles and beond


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

to clear things up jarvis is a big time comercial fisherman has every permit he could outside of longlining he will probobly move his boat to venice la in the next month and keep it there all winter comercial fishing and thats fine but how he is a spokesman for the charter fleet in destin beats me


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

http://www.facebook.com/GulfCouncil?ref=stream

Highlights of the council's actions are cut and pasted below (note trigger fish going to a 2 fish recreational limit and looks like trigger will be closed during snapper season. note also that the opening of certain species of grouper inside 20 fathoms during february and march sounds good- but the majority of these grouper are typically caught in water deepr than 120FT):

Council is going to work on a regulatory amendment to address the 2012 overharvest of red snapper. The Council just voted to include an action that considers reducing the red snapper bag limit to one fish.

Council just decided to set the 2013 gag season to open on July 1st and stay open until the Annual Catch Target is reached with a 2 fish bag limit. This will open the season for an estimated 133-155 days. (Remember this is not a law until the Secretary of Commerce approves it.)

Council just voted on triggerfish management changes. Amendment 37 will: Create a commercial closed season for June and July. Create a 12 fish commercial trip limit. Create a recreational closed season for June and July. Establish a recreational 2 fish bag limit. Give in-season closure authority to NOAA fisheries if the recreational ACT is met. (Remember Council regulations are not made law until the Secretary of Commerce approves it.)


Council decided take red snapper regional management (Amendment 39) out to scoping to gather public input.

Council just voted to eliminate the February - March recreational shallow-water grouper closed season shoreward of the 20 fathom boundary. Translation: fishermen can harvest red grouper, black grouper, scamp, yellowmouth grouper, and yellowfin grouper during February and March if they are inshore of 20 fathoms. (Remember this Council recommendation is not law until the Secretary of Commerce approves and implements it).


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

BullBoxer said:


> can someone summarize what exactly this means for recreational guys


Old but a good read.
http://news.joincca.org/?s=sector+separation
http://www.charterfisherman.org/Reso...Guidelines.pdf


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## Online CurrentSea (Jan 31, 2012)

One endangered red snapper per person and probably an even shorter season...what a joke


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I have been working on my back up plan for me and my two year old son so we can keep fishing. 











I grew up fishing with my dad in this boat which he purchased in 1976.


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## TheRoguePirate (Nov 3, 2011)

Tom Hilton said:


> I believe Sector Separation just got "un-tabled" and approved to go to scoping. That's interesting. Amendment 39 is what was approved to go to scoping.
> 
> Looks also like they will most likely be reducing the red snapper limit to one fish.
> 
> Just popped in on the meeting mid-stream, so am unsure exactly what transpired to be honest.


So what your saying is you have no clue what happened or going on?:whistling:


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## OTTE*DA*WORM (Feb 12, 2011)

markw4321 said:


> I have been working on my back up plan for me and my two year old son so we can keep fishing.
> 
> 
> I grew up fishing with my dad in this boat which he purchased in 1976.


 
What kind of boat is that? Whats with the skirt around it? Got me curious now. O*D*W


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## First Cast (Oct 8, 2007)

swhiting said:


> While I'm at it, i also don't understand:
> 
> * why a stock in peril can be commercially harvested.
> * where are the recreational lobby groups at these meetings
> * how do boat manufacturers and tackle shops not have a presence.....



Spot on with these three questions. Why don't we have a stronger voice in this process? Seems like our governor and Jeff Miller would take the rec side of this to help boost local jobs and tourism.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

OTTE*DA*WORM said:


> What kind of boat is that? Whats with the skirt around it? Got me curious now. O*D*W


Boat is a 14' semi tri-hull "sportsman" made in Crestview, FL during the 1970's by a company that hasn't made boats for a long time now. The plastic 'skirt' was put there by me to protect the "sea foam" green paint on the hull from white paint while I painted the the deck of the boat. Don't want to derail this thread on a boat rebuild story. Once I get it finished this winter will post a complete thread on it.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

First Cast said:


> Spot on with these three questions. Why don't we have a stronger voice in this process? Seems like our governor and Jeff Miller would take the rec side of this to help boost local jobs and tourism.


Our Congressmen usually get rides in Destin from charter boat captains that support sector separation when they visit Destin. They usually get caught up in a "hey i'm about to lose my charter Business and i wont be able to feed my family push for sector separation argument versus the recreational fisherman fishes for pleasure and does not run a business argument."

Our Governor's voice is muted in a Federally run Agency. However,

the Florida Governor could do a lot with respect to FWC going outside federal regulations and opening fishing up inside 9 miles. But there are a lot of politics involved there as well.


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

If I am read correctly what markw4321 posted, the council put out for scoping "regional management for red snapper". That could be a good thing (what Dr. Shipp has stated before). I do not remember that part included in Amendment 39, so whats the deal?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

There is however one Florida Congressman that has stood up to them. 
http://southerland.house.gov/index.cfm/in-the-news?ID=4e0f8c06-a95b-4705-8d25-60a4aed66835

and they have been after him with their money and politics ever since. 
http://www.oceanchampions.org/blog/?p=2135

http://shareholdersalliance.org/2012/09/the-angler/


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

DI 310 said:


> If I am read correctly what markw4321 posted, the council put out for scoping "regional management for red snapper". That could be a good thing (what Dr. Shipp has stated before). I do not remember that part included in Amendment 39, so whats the deal?


It could be a good thing for pensacola area anglers, Yes...depends on if it goes through and how it gets scoped out...


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

has it come to this


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

It is confusing - Amendment 39 to my recollection was Sector Separation, before they combined it with Sector Allocation in Amendment 28.

Regional management is a separate deal, I believe.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

DI 310 said:


> It means we are screwed. If this goes thru the chater for hire guys will get a certain percentage of the recreational quota and they have the possibility to catch and keep for snapper during certain times of the year and the private boats can't . It all boils down to the goverment regulating who can/can't catch snapper


No it all boils down to pay to play. The rich get the rewards.


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

Tom, if you look at the agenda for the meeting it states Amendment 39-regional management of red snapper.I had no idea this was ever included in the amendment. If it was, I did not see it.Makes me wonder why they wrote it up as such.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Throwing this out there. Capt. Pinney had it right when he said to start small and work our way up. We need to convince the states to get the Feds out of it and then we can try and change Crabtree and Co.. They aren't listening to us now, so why do we keep trying. Let's take the fight to the states and try to convince them to manage their own waters. I started this for Alabama to extend their waters and basically get the feds out. Take a look and let me know if you see something that might need to change or just give a signature and maybe we can get the ball rolling.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-our-Snapper-Season/359330284159838?fref=ts


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## cape horn 24 (Sep 29, 2007)

Mrfish, signed up for facebook just sign your petition, your letter looked good to me, I will get my wife to pass along to her facebook friends.

ps: where do you live, I'm in prattville


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

A little north of you in Calera.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

*NMFS - TPWD Discrepancies*

Here is a shot of some spreadsheet numbers given to me by the various agencies tracking Texas red snapper landings.

Very surprising to me to see that over the last few years that, supposedly,  *72% of the total Texas federal red snapper landings are made by headboats*. That leaves 28% of the federal landings to be divvied up by the CFH and Private Recs.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right. The Gulf overall average landings for headboats is less than 15%. 

Also notable is the apparent inflation of TPWD state landings numbers by the NMFS - remember, these state landings numbers are collected by TPWD and given to the NMFS. The net result is that the NMFS numbers show that Texas state caught snapper account for about 28% of the overall total NMFS figures for Texas. The TPWD numbers show that Texas state caught snapper account for only about 13%. Why the discrepancy? 

With all of this talk about sector separation and regional management, seems to me that the headboats will be making out like bandits based on these numbers, and the Texas CFH captains pushing for sector separation will be left standing on the dock with their hat in their hands, not to mention the private recs. 

Also would like an explanation from our TPWD reps on the Gulf Council why they are allowing the feds to inflate our numbers without reproach. 

I will be happy to forward to anyone the original sources of these numbers - they are not my figures. 

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Also would like an explanation from our TPWD reps on the Gulf Council why they are allowing the feds to inflate our numbers without reproach. 

They dont care because they've got balls big enough to tell the feds to go to hell, the other gulf states dont for some odd reason.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Were being forced to break the law if we want to keep fishing.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

What it's going to boil down to is that bag limits for certain species are going to be allotted to the commercial and charter fleets pretty much cutting the recreational angler out of the picture. For those fish if the recreational guy just wants to eat them ... go to Joe Patti's, if you want to catch them you will have to book a charter.


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## Dynamic (Oct 3, 2007)

Kim said:


> What it's going to boil down to is that bag limits for certain species are going to be allotted to the commercial and charter fleets pretty much cutting the recreational angler out of the picture. For those fish if the recreational guy just wants to eat them ... go to Joe Patti's, if you want to catch them you will have to book a charter.


That would be a bunch of HORSE SH!T if it comes to this!!!


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*As unpopular is this will be---*

Why not close the entire fishery for 5 years and give the fish a chance to come back? 

I live a long way to the south east of P'cola and know for absolutely certain that our Grouper population is down by at least 80 percent from what it was 8 years ago. I blame this decline on modern electronics. If GPS signals could be degraded to 1/4 mile accuracy rather than mere feet you could still navigate safely and it would be a helluva lot harder to fish the same spot ten times a day, seven days a week.

I fished using shoreline ranges out of P'cola for several years and had no problems finding and catching fish. Since LORAN C hit the market in 1977 or 78 there has been a steady decline in fish population. Now days, lots of kayaks have far better fish finders and position finding equipment than anybody did 20 years ago.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

captken said:


> Why not close the entire fishery for 5 years and give the fish a chance to come back?
> 
> I live a long way to the south east of P'cola and know for absolutely certain that our Grouper population is down by at least 80 percent from what it was 8 years ago. I blame this decline on modern electronics. If GPS signals could be degraded to 1/4 mile accuracy rather than mere feet you could still navigate safely and it would be a helluva lot harder to fish the same spot ten times a day, seven days a week.
> 
> I fished using shoreline ranges out of P'cola for several years and had no problems finding and catching fish. Since LORAN C hit the market in 1977 or 78 there has been a steady decline in fish population. Now days, lots of kayaks have far better fish finders and position finding equipment than anybody did 20 years ago.


Meanwhile red snapper are so thick you can chum them up and walk across them like stepping stones. Capt ken if you haven't fished for red snapper out of Pensacola in the last 10 years you owe yourself a ride over to see it. I can remember in the 70s catching a few bream sized snapper and thinking we had a good day. Today I have more spots than I can count on two hands with big snapper all over them.


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

First Cast said:


> Spot on with these three questions. Why don't we have a stronger voice in this process? Seems like our governor and Jeff Miller would take the rec side of this to help boost local jobs and tourism.


So are you saying someone else should fight this battle for you? Are you members of CCA or RFA that fight the good fight on these issues? The more members they have the mor clout they have. Do you pay $25 to be a member or do you think wow, I spend $300 on one fishing trip when you figure Ice, Bait, Gas, Boat maitenance or charter fee, etc.. (for many people way way more) so I will give them one trip worth of cash and stay home one day to support their efforts? Do you go to their annual fundraising banquets to help them raise money to fight the battle? Do you ask yourself when you are there, "Is that a good deal on that rod?" or do you say "Happy to pay more than retail to support a good cause."

Bottom line, if you expect to stop sector separation you have to put your name, money, and effort on it, not just bitch on this forum.

When you look at the number of rec anglers vs commercial its pretty simple to see the impact of organization and committment over sheer numbers. The numbers would prevail if they put forth the effort and built the organization.


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

Seriously, your just going to take that?


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## swhiting (Oct 4, 2007)

Bill Me said:


> Seriously, your just going to take that?


One of my questions was where are they at these meetings?


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

Precisely


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

the only way to FINALLY solve this is to stop commercial fishing of certain speices. sorry comm. guys. if yankees want (endangered) fish then they can come charter a boat or maybe you could farm raise them. 

popular (endangered) speices need to be given game status.

move the jurisdiction of these fish from the dept. of commerce to the dept. of interior, where game management works. its not impossiable. they moved my profession from the dept. of business and professional regulation to the dept. of agriculture with out so much as a drop of a hat.

maybe turn jane lubchenco and roy boy into fish food.
tilapia would love it.

wild terrestrial game has not been commercially harvested for many years.


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## WW2 (Sep 28, 2007)

nextstep said:


> the only way to FINALLY solve this is to stop commercial fishing of certain speices. sorry comm. guys. if yankees want (endangered) fish then they can come charter a boat or maybe you could farm raise them.
> 
> popular (endangered) speices need to be given game status.
> 
> ...


 
This.... and ya done.


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## Crab Man (Oct 21, 2011)

I was under the impression that they closed both recreational and commercial snapper fishing in the SE Atlantic, andi fishery is still closed.


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