# Evidence Photo



## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Does anyone have an opinion about this evidence photo and how the fish is being measured?

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## capt'n slim (Feb 8, 2008)

evidence shows fish is not whole, measurement is useless


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

yeah, it was used in court. the officer said he could not put it in its right position.. but it made the fish longer. Both statements were not true.. it just had the throat cut to get the bait/hook out. it was put in that position to make it shorter.


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

That position would make it longer not shorter.....Throat cut, head pushed up actually gives it probably an inch.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

How would it make it longer with the backbone still attached? The fish on a narrow ruler is easier to see than on a wide ruler.


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## afishanado (Oct 26, 2009)

Not to get up on a soapbox, but if the measurement is that close, it's probably better to let the fish swim another day.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

it sure would be.. and that is what I normally do. 20 1/8" always went back... now its nothing under 21" inches.. but the reason why the throat was cut was to get the bait and the circle hook out after the fish died. so then it was just tossing a legal dead fish in the water. It seemed right to keep a legal fish.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Rule of thumb...dont wait till the fish dies, then cut out the hook. Don't cut the hook out of a questionable fish. Cut the line and release the fish and let that 50 cent hook go.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I've never cut the throat to get a hook out. Never really heard of it. If it's down that deep, even if I'm keeping the fish, I'll cut the line and chunk him in the box and retie.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

My wife took these photos the day I caught the fish, the ruler is on the floor moved from the first because I was trying to measure with the bait in.. the bait was still on the hook and wasn't coming out of the gut where the hook was. I tried. I would advise all to throw a grouper under 21" back dead or alive. 
That being said, you see any reason why an officer couldn't put the fish in it's natural position and measure it? I mean that is the way the it is supposed to be measured... it is legal to remove gills.. though I didn't do that.


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

So you got a ticket? I thought red grouper had to be 20" total length... looks like it's over that in all the pictures. Unless the law changed I'm missing something


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## SHO-NUFF (May 30, 2011)

If you are catching fish within an inch of the legal limit, find a different spot that produces larger fish. The FWC's tape measure is the only one that counts in court. :thumbsup:


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## WhyMe (Apr 21, 2013)

On my boat, if and when I get to use the damn thing) is make sure it's way bigger enough. When in doubt toss it back. I want no trouble with the FWC and being prior LEO they tend to be more harsh ( I should of known better ) . Good luck if that happen to you.
Whyme


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

Rough but honest crowed here.

If you try and put yourself in the officer's position, it may have appeared to him you cut that fish to try and make it legal. Not saying you did cut the fish for that purpose but the officer has probably seen or heard all kinds of excuses.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Was this a circle hook?


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Orion45 said:


> Was this a circle hook?


I've have to cut off a bunch of circle hooks so far because even small snapper are swallowing them.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Yes it was a circle hook. It held the bait with it and it was hard to get out. I should have thrown it overboard dead even if it measured because they shrink on ice and it's better not to deal with what I did. My point is the fish is supposed to be measured one way... with it's head in the natural position... not all contorted up... I was found guilty in court because the officer testified that he could not return the grouper to it's natural position and that the head being turned up makes it longer... see earlier photos/comments... law enforcement should measure the fish per regulations... the case is in appeal and I have made a complaint... still this is a word of caution and the post is meant to be helpful... there seems to be a continuous thought here.. add an inch on the regulations... on any fish... UNLESS its a "slot" fish... somehow there are different rules if you're getting close to being too big...


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

If the fish was clearly legal, why not get the hook out back at the dock? Why remove it that way out there to even give the man the chance to stick it in ya?


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## gator75 (Aug 11, 2016)

My .02, if that was the only questionable fish in the cooler and you weren't being rude, that officer must have been having a bad day. That's a bs call on his part.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Well, I obviously made a way for the man to stick it to me.. it never occurred to me that removing the bait fish.. and hook... so I could close the mouth and properly measure the grouper would later result in the officer placing the grouper in the position on the evidence photo... because that is not how a fish is measured by the definition of "total length". I also didn't think he would testify in court that the way the fish is in the evidence photo makes it longer and there was no way to put the head back in its natural position because I had removed the gills (which were not removed). I also don't have a 5" wide measuring board to put the fish on canted and make it look straight... I had been on many charter trips for grouper.. but I just got my new boat last year and it's a 22' Champion Bay boat. I only go out 20 miles on the calmest of days ... so it's not like my every day thing.. I just measured the grouper and it was legal... NOW I know all of this...


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

oh brother, get over it and pay the fine. One thing for sure, you wont keep a "close" fish anymore. If it was "legal" then this wouldn't even be discussed. next time your checked. make sure you have your list of "How the LOE should perform their duties" with you and let us know how that relaxes the situation..... 2 more worthless cents like the rest of the responses..... Take your lumps and move on down the road. By the looks of it, you got busted with a short fish....


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Most FWC officers are wannabe proctologists.


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## WhyMe (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm popping popcorn and getting the beer on ice.
Whyme


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## reel jewell (Sep 21, 2014)

If it is a 22 inch fish, I would stand my ground. If it is a 20 inch fish, it might be a good idea to just pay the fine. Red grouper will shrink while being on ice. Just my two cents...


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

Take it to the Supreme Court.


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## Dunt (Aug 14, 2015)

In your original photo, that fish isn't even 19", cut or not. You got busted. Pay your penalty. There's nothing anyone on this forum can do to help you.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Lyin Too said:


> Most FWC officers are wannabe proctologists.


That's like saying most folks from Tuscaloosa kiss their sisters. 

Ok, perhaps a poor parallel.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

So that is a good way to measure a fish? You don't just pay a fine you get probation and community service. It's not a ticket its a crime.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Dunt said:


> In your original photo, that fish isn't even 19", cut or not. You got busted. Pay your penalty. There's nothing anyone on this forum can do to help you.


Good point. Went back and looked. The evidence photo shows that fish at well under 19". What's up with that?


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> So that is a good way to measure a fish? You don't just pay a fine you get probation and community service. It's not a ticket its a crime.


Doubt you get probation and community service over a fish. You screwed up. Tell the judge it was a honest mistake, pay the fine and learn from it.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Oh, I don't need_ help _from people on this forum.. I wanted _ opinions _on the fish measurement. Help will be in the form an appeal, an investigation, and probably some air time on the news. I can take all of the abuse because that's why some of the people get on these in the first place.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Splittine said:


> Doubt you get probation and community service over a fish. You screwed up. Tell the judge it was a honest mistake, pay the fine and learn from it.


Besides, if you haven't been on probation, then you ain't even trying to have fun.:no:


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> Oh, I don't need_ help _from people on this forum.. I wanted _ opinions _on the fish measurement. Help will be in the form an appeal, an investigation, and probably some air time on the news. I can take all of the abuse because that's why some of the people get on these in the first place.


If you honestly believe that then Bless your heart. This happens every single day, you're not the only person to make this mistake. You won't be on the news, you're pissing away money with an appeal. Own up to your mistake and move on. One problem with this country is people can't own up to it and have to blame everyone else for their F ups.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

No brother, I got sentenced to 50 hours community service and 4 months probation plus $540.00 before paying the probation officer...my attorney never submitted my photos and video of other fish in that position.. so all the jury saw was the evidence photo... the officer made it sound like I removed something from the fish, and testified that fish never shrink on ice. So it seems real important to me that the officer place the fish in the correct position... hopefully I can do the 50 hrs at the VFW.. I'm a member there


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

Sounds like there is more to the story.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

This is a true story I believe, it was told to me by the caretaker at Roland Cooper as fact.
Couple of guys were cleaning crappie at the campground cleaning station when Mr Green Jeans drove up, got out and looked over their catch which was spread out all over the table. He reached and picked up the shortest fish he saw and asked the guy in a smart-alleck tone - "Do you think this fish is over nine inches?" The guy reached over and took it, held it up inspecting it for a second or two then dropped it on the concrete and stomped it good and hard, reached down, picked it up and threw it back on the table and said "I think it is now"


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Still no opinion on the position of the fish in the evidence photo? Just I'm blaming someone for my f up?


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Every now and then, I catch one that's close to the limit, I call them stompers...but throw them back.
I think your right and you got screwed - but really dude, sometimes you gotta cut your losses and just go fishing


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Yeah... I didn't take the deferral program and admit I was guilty because I didn't think I was and the evidence photo didn't look like the way you are supposed to measure a fish. I did a bunch of personal experiments and realized that doing that makes the fish shorter..
the prosecutor said they would ask for maximums if I didn't take a deal. My attorney didn't submit any of the stuff I sent him and I spent $1500.00 on him to do less than I would myself. That is the more to the story.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Now that I know all of this I will throw a 21" fish back even if it's dead like the 20 1/8" inch fish in the evidence photo..


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

That is funny about the stompers..


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

Sorry man with 16 posts you won't get much sympathy from this group. A few years back I was coming in Pensacola Pass and got stopped. This was back when AJs were 31 inches or so. My ruler measured 32, but the FWC measured 30". Quite a discrepancy. He had the aluminum ruler, I had the stick-on one.

I have since purchased one just like the FWC uses, but don't tempt fate. Beeliner isn't 12" it swims. Snapper not 18"? Lucky fish. BTW the FWC "confiscated" the AJ and didn't write me a ticket. He had a hungry look on his face. I bet he had AJ for supper.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I am still curious as to why the evidence photo shows a fish under 19".


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Suck it up. Pay it. Have a better plan next time. 
Just that easy.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

grouper22 said:


> That's like saying most folks from Tuscaloosa kiss their sisters.
> 
> Ok, perhaps a poor parallel.


Easy there my bottom feeding friend.


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

You shouldn't have to throw back legal fish, period, and it was either legal or it wasn't.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> I wanted _opinions _on the fish measurement.


Here my "opinion" of the fishes measurement. "It seems to be short, and not a legal fish"

hang in there, you will always be remembered as the "guy that measured a Grouper wrong" ONCE!!!! :whistling::thumbup:


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## fla_scout (Sep 28, 2007)

This thread reminds me of the guy hunting on the island.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

I gotta say , I think you measured above the limit. Gotta figure your not so hard headed as to take it this far without being sure of yourself. At least I hope not. This is a terrible place to post for opinions. 90% of these guys are jealous you even went fishing. They did the same to me (a loved and respected member) about my red light cam photo a year or so back in which I was clearly innocent. No body sided with me and I been pissed about it since!


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Try'n Hard said:


> I gotta say , I think you measured above the limit. Gotta figure your not so hard headed as to take it this far without being sure of yourself. At least I hope not. This is a terrible place to post for opinions. 90% of these guys are jealous you even went fishing. They did the same to me (a loved and respected member) about my red light cam photo a year or so back in which I was clearly innocent. No body sides with me and I been pissed about it since!


Hey, aren't you a turkey poacher?


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

fla_scout said:


> This thread reminds me of the guy hunting on the island.




Yeah! He was innocent too!!


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

Try'n Hard said:


> I gotta say , I think you measured above the limit. Gotta figure your not so hard headed as to take it this far without being sure of yourself. At least I hope not. This is a terrible place to post for opinions. 90% of these guys are jealous you even went fishing. They did the same to me (a loved and respected member) about my red light cam photo a year or so back in which I was clearly innocent. No body sided with me and I been pissed about it since!


Go steam some fish. Did you ever find little red?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

lettheairout said:


> Go steam some fish. Did you ever find little red?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk




No. Although I did feel the love from y'all on that one


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Hey Kingfisher--you are doing something wrong*

If you are gut hooking more than an occasional Grouper or Snapper. Chances are, you are using offset circle hooks which are illegal. 

I've been fishing with non-offset circle hooks since about 1954 and I seldom hook a fish too deep to get the hook out easily and safely for the fish.

I've been using the same Mustad Circle hook all this time. If I remember correctly it is a #39992DT size 12/0 but I use the same hook in size 20/0 when fishing for Jewfish.

Not trying to bust your chops or anything. Just offering a solution to your problem.

Another comment, just general for this thread: I've fished all of these years and have not had a single USCG or FWC violation. If you treat these guys with respect and do not try to BS them, I think you will find them to be professional and courteous. If you give them a ration of crap, you might come out on the short end of the stick.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

Ok, so here are a couple of fish... does it look like tilting the head up makes a fish longer?


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

captken said:


> If you are gut hooking more than an occasional Grouper or Snapper. Chances are, you are using offset circle hooks which are illegal.
> 
> I've been fishing with non-offset circle hooks since about 1954 and I seldom hook a fish too deep to get the hook out easily and safely for the fish.
> 
> ...


Cap, back when circle hooks became the law, I dumped 3 unopened boxes of offset circle hooks in the garbage, along with the open box in my tackle bag.

I am using Mustard in a medium wire and extra heavy wire size 5/0 . I'm wondering if the bay here being murky/muddy is caused the snapper to gulp the bait all the way down when they find it.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

I'm 46 fished here all my life with exception of the time I spent in the USMC... went in at 31 years old 10/11/01.. spent 9 months in Iraq 03' got out 1/21/05... other than that.. I also hunt. Deal with Park Service, FWC, etc... never had a problem. This is a first for me.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Is that a piece of red solo cup they're on. Those are too short!


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## fla_scout (Sep 28, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> I'm 46 fished here all my life with exception of the time I spent in the USMC... went in at 31 years old 10/11/01.. spent 9 months in Iraq 03' got out 1/21/05... other than that.. I also hunt. Deal with Park Service, FWC, etc... never had a problem. This is a first for me.


Thank you for your service. I admire anyone that was 31 and went in to protect our country I was 37 at the time and was out of shape. (Shut up trying hard). You're not gonna win this argument with this crowd so cut your losses and post up some other fishing reports. 

Sorry it's just the way it is.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

It's an experiment of mine... wanted to see if anyone would actually look at the photo or just say you got a citation you must be guilty


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

fla_scout said:


> . (Shut up trying hard).



See what I mean! I'm loved and respected here!


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

I called one of the captains that I charter when a few of us want to go out and catch grouper. I said we always keep grouper just over 20" on your boat.. he laughed and said "that's what you think, we have a cutting board with marks on it.. the mark says 20", but it's 21 1/2".. "


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## fla_scout (Sep 28, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> It's an experiment of mine... wanted to see if anyone would actually look at the photo or just say you got a citation you must be guilty


Not a good place to conduct an experiment if you didn't want opinions.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> I called one of the captains that I charter when a few of us want to go out and catch grouper. I said we always keep grouper just over 20" on your boat.. he laughed and said "that's what you think, we have a cutting board with marks on it.. the mark says 20", but it's 21 1/2".. "


Smart captain.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

I don't mind the opinions. I did think someone might be casually interested in the evidence photo..


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## SurfRidr (Apr 24, 2012)

kingfish501 said:


> Smart captain.


Ditto.

I think your problem is that the only photo that matters shows the fish being under 19 inches. Everything else is pure speculation. Was he wrong to tilt the head? I don't know. But it won't change anything no matter what we all say.

I do think FWC really gets their shorts in a bind when they see 'mutilated' fish. They are used to seeing all likes of people who do it to try to disguise short fish, even though I don't think that was why you did it. I think you were genuinely trying to follow the law. So since you want opinions, here is mine:

You kept a fish that was close to legal size, on one side or another. You should have cut the line instead of cutting the fish, and it's quite possible FWC is making you pay for that. Whatever you retrieved from the fish wasn't worth what it's costing you.

I appreciate your service, and I'm sorry you have been through the ringer over a fish. Avoidable in the future, and a good lesson for many of those reading. 

Best of luck!


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Question, why was the fish already dead?


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Thank you for your service. 

In my opinion, you kept an undersized fish. That penalty seems excessive, but hey, I don't make the rules....

Like they say, measure twice, cut once. Guess it applies to fish too!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## fla_scout (Sep 28, 2007)

Measure twice, cut once is something to live by. My step father is a cabinet builder and has instilled this in me.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

2171USMC said:


> It's an experiment of mine...


Here's an experiment for you. Get a fish and measure it in whole. Then cut the throat as in your pics. Put a yard stick or tape measure underneath the fish centered. Take the overall measurement again as if throat is not cut, then start moving the head upward to see IF at ANY point, the measurement is higher than the original measurement. 
Then you don't need us for your experiment, and take this to the court on your appeal. But you'll see, the measurement will be longer at one point, shorter at another.
I can feel your pain, but have you ever violated the law in any way, and didn't get caught? I'm sure you have. 
If you feel you were not wrong this time, just think of it as paying for something you didn't get caught for. just saying. 
My BIL caught some sheepshead, but fwc said it was juvenile black drum (which they were). Cost him $1,500 for 3 of them. Honest mistake on his part, but he never cried about it. Sucked it up and paid the fines, plus court costs, etc. G/L to you on your adventures thru the legal battlefields.


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## Dunt (Aug 14, 2015)

2171USMC said:


> So that is a good way to measure a fish? You don't just pay a fine you get probation and community service. It's not a ticket its a crime.


There is a reason the state and federal authorities (sometimes with our votes and input) regulate fisheries. It is YOUR responsibility to know how to measure a fish and to know the legal limits and regulations. Until you accept that responsibility and learn, or at least have a quick reference to those regulations, you shouldn't have a hook in the water. 

If your original purpose of this post was to incite sympathy, it looks like you're not going to get it. 

I highly doubt you are going to serve time for this offense if you plead guilty and accept the punishment (which will be a fine).


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

I know how to measure a fish and it certainly isn't with its head canted way up because the throat is cut. You haven't read much of this or you would know I already got sentenced 4 months of probation, $540.00, and 50 hrs of community service. I didn't plead guilty because I laid the fish on the ruler and measured it. And it is a crime... I don't want sympathy from anyone... I wanted an opinion on the evidence photo... I get asked a lot of questions or have someone chime in like you so I answer it. The real question has been would you say that is a good way to measure a fish? End of question.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> I know how to measure a fish and it certainly isn't with its head canted way up because the throat is cut. You haven't read much of this or you would know I already got sentenced 4 months of probation, $540.00, and 50 hrs of community service. I didn't plead guilty because I laid the fish on the ruler and measured it. And it is a crime... I don't want sympathy from anyone... I wanted an opinion on the evidence photo... I get asked a lot of questions or have someone chime in like you so I answer it. The real question has been would you say that is a good way to measure a fish? End of question.


Okay, here is the opinion...avcording to the law, the fish MUST BE LANDED IN WHILE CONDITION....dont cut his throat to retrace a .25 cent hook. You never did answer why the fish was dead.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

How does one remove the gills without cutting the throat.. which is permissible by law? See the first page or two.. do you see the picture with the big squirrel fish hanging out of the mouth of the fish with a tight line? Head of squirrel fish had the circle hook through the nose and was caught in the gullet. The fish died as I tried to get it out through the mouth. Later I cut the throat to access the hook and remove the bait so I could close the mouth of the fish. Read the regulations it is permissible to remove the gills (though I did not do that). When people cut tuna of king fish to bleed them it is not illegal. I will post the pic again..


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

My wife took those photos that day.. never knew I'd be showing those saying here is why this fish died..


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

You are allowed to gut the fish and remove the gills... look at the FWC website under must remain in whole condition. Also see total length measurement.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Under 20 inches. Doesn't matter if he dead, got gold in his belly or can talk swahili. He gets thrown back. Do your time, pay your fine and get over it.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)




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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

2171USMC said:


> How does one remove the gills without cutting the throat.. which is permissible by law? See the first page or two.. do you see the picture with the big squirrel fish hanging out of the mouth of the fish with a tight line? Head of squirrel fish had the circle hook through the nose and was caught in the gullet. The fish died as I tried to get it out through the mouth. Later I cut the throat to access the hook and remove the bait so I could close the mouth of the fish. Read the regulations it is permissible to remove the gills (though I did not do that). When people cut tuna of king fish to bleed them it is not illegal. I will post the pic again..


So you removed or cut makes no damn difference, the gills to get the hook and then kept the fish cause it was dead? Theres no way that 19" fish was ever 20" to begin with.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

This thread sucks

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm with you OP. If, as you say, the fish was legal when you measured it, it looks as if you got robbed. The only thing you did wrong was not getting a good lawyer to defend you and object to the issues you have raised here. I kept a snapper or two Saturday that were legal by an 1/8 of an inch or so. I guess by the reasoning of some, we must now throw back fish that are legal when caught to avoid your situation. That doesn't seem right to me.


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## capt mike (Oct 3, 2007)

*Yes it DOES!!!!!!*

Sir
Pay the fine and get on with it!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

capt mike said:


> Sir
> Pay the fine and get on with it!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


At this point, that seems his only option. Appealing would be expensive.


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## 2171USMC (Aug 5, 2017)

To Florabama..wow one person that might have looked at the picture and seen the position of it, I knew you might be out there.
I just said I didn't remove the gills and one person asked why I did. This is why a jury trial is really tricky...you have to have people who can understand a simple point instead of tell you all their reasons why they know you are guilty when you get charged with something... if this man didn't add two inches for ice and stupidly cutting the throat, allowing the officer to position the fish that is not in the definition of total length.. then he is obviously guilty and must pay his fine and move on! Now I was being sarcastic for all of you who don't understand why I just said that. I think I have enough for the moment...


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

2171USMC said:


> To Florabama..wow one person that might have looked at the picture and seen the position of it, I knew you might be out there.
> I just said I didn't remove the gills and one person asked why I did. This is why a jury trial is really tricky...you have to have people who can understand a simple point instead of tell you all their reasons why they know you are guilty when you get charged with something... if this man didn't add two inches for ice and stupidly cutting the throat, allowing the officer to position the fish that is not in the definition of total length.. then he is obviously guilty and must pay his fine and move on! Now I was being sarcastic for all of you who don't understand why I just said that. I think I have enough for the moment...


People on a jury domt tell you anythign sir...

Weither you cut or removed the gills is moot, the fish is way short on the fwc ruler...you need to toss out your rulers firstly...secondly, never ever ever remove a hook by adultering the fish unless its all inside the mouth...its an expensive lesson but it wont happen again, even if you appeal and win...

Why didnt you have a jury trial to start with...

Who is this attorney you used so we all know not to use, just in case...

If I have to measure a fish, then I aint on the right spot anyway...


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> Ok, so here are a couple of fish... does it look like tilting the head up makes a fish longer?


Are they 10"s?


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

John B. said:


> This thread sucks
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Sucks so good!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## RfmTX (Jun 5, 2013)

Doesn't totally suck.
I learned to be extra careful when measuring...


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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

Wirelessly posted

The Ole Where did it go?

My experience is that Red Grouper will shrink more than any other fish once on ice. 

"GET'EM OFF THE BOTTOM"


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## CalvinandHobbes (Jan 25, 2014)

so who was your crappy lawyer?


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## snakeeater (Oct 25, 2016)

The lesson here...if you have to ask "Is he really long enough?", then ya oughtta toss him back...:thumbsup:


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

snakeeater said:


> The lesson here...if you have to ask "Is he really long enough?", then ya oughtta toss him back...


Dead or a live the democrats gotta eat to 
" dolphins" 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

2171USMC said:


> To Florabama..wow one person that might have looked at the picture and seen the position of it, I knew you might be out there.
> I just said I didn't remove the gills and one person asked why I did. This is why a jury trial is really tricky...you have to have people who can understand a simple point instead of tell you all their reasons why they know you are guilty when you get charged with something... if this man didn't add two inches for ice and stupidly cutting the throat, allowing the officer to position the fish that is not in the definition of total length.. then he is obviously guilty and must pay his fine and move on! Now I was being sarcastic for all of you who don't understand why I just said that. I think I have enough for the moment...


That's why I said you needed a good lawyer. If the fish was legal if measured correctly, then that point should have been made in court by a lawyer willing to fight for you. I don't understand how that got by. If it were me, and I knew the fish was legal, I would not have pleaded guilty. I would have paid the money to fight it. A fish is either legal or it's not. There is no gray area nor should there be.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Florabama said:


> That's why I said you needed a good lawyer. If the fish was legal if measured correctly, then that point should have been made in court by a lawyer willing to fight for you. I don't understand how that got by. If it were me, and I knew the fish was legal, I would not have pleaded guilty. I would have paid the money to fight it. A fish is either legal or it's not. There is no gray area nor should there be.


Did you look at the first picture? The EVIDENCE picture. The one that shows a grouper measuring under 19".


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

MrFish said:


> Did you look at the first picture? The EVIDENCE picture. The one that shows a grouper measuring under 19".


I agree with the OP that bending the head back like that may have made the fish shorter. If you lean your head back then measure your height, will you be taller or shorter than if you stand with your head straight up? The fish should have been measured in the most natural way possible, and that is not with the head cocked up in that manner. I can't say for sure the fish would be legal if measured properly, and if it was an inch short, measured properly, then I would agree that the OP was definitely in the wrong, but as I see it, there's plenty of room for doubt.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Florabama said:


> I agree with the OP that bending the head back like that may have made the fish shorter. If you lean your head back then measure your height, will you be taller or shorter than if you stand with your head straight up? The fish should have been measured in the most natural way possible, and that is not with the head cocked up in that manner. I can't say for sure the fish would be legal if measured properly, and if it was an inch short, measured properly, then I would agree that the OP was definitely in the wrong, but as I see it, there's plenty of room for doubt.


If you look at the evidence picture, the fish would have been shorter if the head was "folded" back down. The way it is shown on the board added length.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

lol


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

Wrgaf?


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## WhyMe (Apr 21, 2013)

Ok.....it's been several days since I have been on this website and I see this thread is still going very strong. Been working a lot of hours. Anyways, the popcorn is ready and the beer on tap is mic light and bud lite. 
Time to suck it up Buttercup. 
Whyme


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

I just wanted to be post number 100 lol


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

lol


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## hyco (Oct 24, 2008)

Read all 11 pages and I don't even fish.....Entertaining


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

You can always get the hook back at the cleaning table


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## Geno (Mar 23, 2017)

I had no idea any fish would shrink on ice. That's scary.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

Dude, jump in ice cold water and tell me stuff doesn't shrink, that is my excuse and I am sticking to it.


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## Pcola4jr (Jan 29, 2017)

What would have been the punishment if you took a plea? Still never said who your lawyer was?

Gotta risk it to get the biscuit. 


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