# My 10 year old student 72lbs with 12 gauge shotgun



## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Most children are abducted from their homes. Smaller people in general can benefit from this.

Although we all know children should NOT have easy and unsupervised access to firearms (by law), sometimes it's good to let them know they have options in handling larger weapons if God forbid the need arises.

Katie wanted to fire the big gun. She inspired me to come up with what I call the "braced stock technique". There's always a wall, a floor, a piece of furniture or a door somewhere for support in the home. This was her second round of fire. The first round of fire she held the gun at the waist and was shooting 3 inch magnum shells at 25' no problem hitting her target. You may not be able to see it clearly in the video, but the stock of the shotgun is braced up against the wall of my shipping container.

This is just an option I'm sharing with you all. It's an effective way to manage recoil with combat effective accuracy at CLOSE range.
I hope you enjoy and I look forward to your feedback
Thanks!


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Only Input*

i would guess that your guns will start to expierance some cracked stocks. Especially the ones that do not have a thick'ish rubber recoil pad. --- SAWMAN


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

SAWMAN said:


> i would guess that your guns will start to expierance some cracked stocks. Especially the ones that do not have a thick'ish rubber recoil pad. --- SAWMAN


I have super-duper thick'ish rubber recoil pads!


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## one big one (Oct 4, 2007)

Great Job , you can replace the stock but not not the family.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm sure Capt. Ron - and any sensible firearms instructor - would gladly sacrifice a few shotgun stocks for a person's safety and ability to defend themselves.

Good job Ron, I need to come see you soon.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

one big one said:


> great job , you can replace the stock but not not the family.


_x2_



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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

JoeZ said:


> I'm sure Capt. Ron - and any sensible firearms instructor - would gladly sacrifice a few shotgun stocks for a person's safety and ability to defend themselves.
> 
> Good job Ron, I need to come see you soon.


 


*x 2*



.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

SAWMAN said:


> i would guess that your guns will start to expierance some cracked stocks. Especially the ones that do not have a thick'ish rubber recoil pad. --- SAWMAN


 

*"expierance"*



_..........Really?_


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Here It Is*

Feedback ----> My feedback is just this. Please understand that I am not an instructor anymore and have NEVER taught 10 year old kids or anyone of that small of frame.

My first thought is this. Is any of the other instructors teaching 10yo kids to shoot a 12ga shotgun. Especially with the 3" magnum loads ?? If so who,if not,why not ??

Secondly, to teach a 10yo to use the shotgun or any other firearm you have to make sure that they know where the shotgun is stored/placed in the residence. It also has to be already loaded unless you are teaching this also. Is a rd chambered with the safety on ?? Action cocked,safety on,no rd in chamber ?? Others ??

I have no children so I am not near an expert on this but.........I would not want my 10yo kids(ESPECIALLY sons)to know where a loaded shotgun is stored in my residence. Especially if you have given them permission to access it any time "they" thought there "could be" a threat. Actually,I am not sure that a 10yo understands the definition of all the concepts of using a deadly weapon(firearm) in defense of _______? 

It seems that you pride yourself on being on the cutting edge of firearms training. Nothing wrong with that. I personally feel that you are going off in the wrong direction here. A 10yo should be taught situational awareness,escape routes from the residence,communication techniques by phone,radio,voice,etc. Even a limited amount of H2H. If you choose H2H you have to teach them the real world stuff. The politically incorrect stuff. Groin kicks/punches,cupped hand ear slaps,the severe eye injury gouges,etc. It you feel that a 10yo is ready to use a shotgun at close range,a parent should consider the above.

Parents of 10yo children that have paid you to teach them defensive shotgun should surely check with the local police and or prosecutors office as to the implications of a pending litigation/prosecution. If your child shoots another child or someone else that they "feel" is a "threat" to them,and it IS NOT a good shoot,who pays in jail time and monetary awards. Who does the jury decide the responsible persons are ??

There are several other "what ifs" that come to mind but will end it there. As stated,I am not any kind of authority on any of this. Just adding food for thought for both instructors and parents. 

Will attempt to check my spelling on the above in an attempt to keep the "spelling police" satisfied. Thanks for your above GARBO. It lets me know that you scrutinize my every word. Keep up the good work.:yes: --- SAWMAN


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

Twain was right, it's not what you don't know that will hurt you, but what you think you know, but really don't.
Apply where applicable


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

My dad is now a retired LEO, he allowed us to shoot any and every firearm available to him in the early 80\'s. All of his children shot these firearms, they were never locked or stored anywhere other than his closet. He allowed us to look, touch, ask questions, and shoot these firearms under his supervision. His thought was if he allowed us to use these firearms under his supervision it would reduce the chances of us wanting to play or touch them without supervision. Today as a father I do the same thing with my daughter, she will not touch a firearm unless told to. She is extremely safe and very knowledgeable of firearms for a 9 year old. I feel that my dads way worked with his kids and has worked well for my child too. The only thing I do different than my dad is my firearms are normally in a locked safe. I agree with teaching a child how to use a firearm, however them every having to use it as a child for self defense is unlikely. There are so many adults today that have no clue to safely handle a firearm. I sold a Keltec P-11 to a 55 year old co-worker, he returned to work the next day bragging how well it shot. I asked him where he shot it, him and his wife shot a magazine each in the air. They live in a subdivision off West Roberts Road in Cantonment. I was blown away that a man of this age with 8 years in the military would do such a thing.


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## CSA (Oct 23, 2008)

Gnwdad said:


> Wirelessly posted
> 
> My dad is now a retired LEO, he allowed us to shoot any and every firearm available to him in the early 80\'s. All of his children shot these firearms, they were never locked or stored anywhere other than his closet. He allowed us to look, touch, ask questions, and shoot these firearms under his supervision. His thought was if he allowed us to use these firearms under his supervision it would reduce the chances of us wanting to play or touch them without supervision. Today as a father I do the same thing with my daughter, she will not touch a firearm unless told to. She is extremely safe and very knowledgeable of firearms for a 9 year old. I feel that my dads way worked with his kids and has worked well for my child too. The only thing I do different than my dad is my firearms are normally in a locked safe. I agree with teaching a child how to use a firearm, however them every having to use it as a child for self defense is unlikely. There are so many adults today that have no clue to safely handle a firearm.


 
I was raised similar except the hunting guns was always in the corner of the front and back door so we could grab them, as we left and returned. It was this way as far back as I can remember. I agree with the above practice and do it similar, the only thing is when my little girl has a friend over I go ahead and put the guns that are in my room in the safe just because I don't know how that youngen was raised even tho my daughter and her guest are not allowed in my room when she has a friend over


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

All my training is ONE-ON-ONE. Everything I teach a student or show a parent is based on the individual's physical ability, maturity, comprehension level, competency, and legal responsibilities regardless of age. 

I believe only taking a shooters age in account would be the same as only taking someones race or culture in account when training them. And...if an instructor doesn't believe someone's race/culture/religion/ or country or origin plays a role in their training, that instructor is quite mistaken. 

Almost any instructor would say that they have often seen all these traits displayed better with many more children percentage wise than adults.

I find women and children are far better at following directions than grown adult men of any age.

All my student parents a fully informed of the legal ramifications of firearms in the house whether they have children living there or not.

Please do NOT ask police or attorneys (who do not specialize in gun crimes) about laws pertaining to firearms. If you want to know about the law by Jon Gumacher's book on Florida Gun Laws or another one comparable(if there is one for Florida) and read it 10x over. 

My class is taught directly from Gutmacher's book and by other legal professional witness experts like Massad Ayoob whom I have spoken with personally on several occasions. I don't make this stuff up, I rip-off the best legal minds in the business and pass the savings onto my students!

As an instructor and a counselor I only provide my clients with the tools and techniques to meet *THEIR* training goals. My clients firearms training goals are discussed prior to the start of class. I provide as many options for them to choose from to meet these goals and continually remind them the choice is theirs and then discuss the possible physical and legal consequences of each choice they may decide to make.

My clients leave my range informed and empowered, not advised.
If you want legal advice, AGAIN go to an attorney who specializes in your matter, not a gun instructor or a LEO.

As always thank you gentlemen for inspiring me to be better!


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

one big one said:


> Great Job , you can replace the stock but not not the family.


:thumbsup: Love to see the kids shooting....


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## MikeH (Jul 14, 2009)

I enjoy all of the posts by capt. Ron. You can tell he is passionate about what he teaches, and cares about and trains every student like he would his closest family members. He doesn't compromise or make any excuses about what he teaches, which is exactly why I booked my training session with him. And despite the concerns of a couple other members on here,i haver never heard any one who has actually attended a class complain and I'm glad he cares more about keeping his students alive than making everybody happy.


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## Flounderpounder (Oct 3, 2007)

I wonder how that technique would work indoors using just a sheetrock wall (guessing not to well!)? To those who don't agree with Ron, all I can say is I was raised by a state cop, and was shooting a variety of weapons (including shotguns) by age ten, on a weekly basis. Yes, I knew where loaded weapons were in the house, and how to use them. I also knew if I used them irresponsibly, or without permission, I would be in the deepest doodoo I had ever experienced by many orders of magnatude.


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## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

I agree with sawman on this, I don't want my kids worrying about stopping an intruder and would rather them flee to a neighbor while one of the adults handled the intruder. My boy knows how to handle his .243 and his 410 real well, but he doesn't have access to any firearms in the house. Saying that however, to each his own and how their kids are raised. I just don't want that burden on my child. It is good seeing kids shooting, after all, they are the future law makers.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

SAWMAN said:


> Will attempt to check my spelling on the above in an attempt to keep the "spelling police" satisfied. Thanks for your above GARBO. It lets me know that you scrutinize my every word. Keep up the good work.:yes: --- SAWMAN


 
*Whomever you are, there is no need for you to mention my screenname or name for any reason. After your last two Private Messages, which you asked me to keep private, it is very obvious that you feel there is not an option for there be to be a civil relationship involving you and I. *

*Do whatever it is you do, from under whatever rock you choose, and please keep it to yourself, and be as proud as you want to be. *

*BTW, I bolded my reply to set it apart from your post. *



.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

I've met and dealt with both you guys -- SAWMAN and Garbo. I think if both of you were in the same place, at the same time you'd probably get along.

Sometimes, when we write stuff on here it takes on meanings or inflections that aren't intended necessarily by the author (of course me not knowing the content of any PMs)... Just saying that I think both of you are great guys that I've had transactions with in the past... And, I wouldn't hesitate in working a transaction with either of you in the future.

Thanks for the forum PFF!


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## Dilski (Oct 10, 2007)

Great job Capt Rob, looks like you turned that property into a 1st class operation!:thumbsup:



SAWMAN said:


> Feedback ---->
> Secondly, to teach a 10yo to use the shotgun or any other firearm you have to make sure that they know where the shotgun is stored/placed in the residence. It also has to be already loaded unless you are teaching this also. Is a rd chambered with the safety on ?? Action cocked,safety on,no rd in chamber ?? Others ??
> 
> --- SAWMAN


Who said that the parents have to disclose the location and/or combination, key, whatever, of the firearms in the home?? Even if they chose not to, the child could still benefit from the proper training by a professional just in case one of those "WHAT IF?" situations did happen. To be familiarized with a firearm and the *proper* handling and respect can only do good so long as the kid is ready. 
Looks like you put on a *one of a kind *class Capt Ron.:thumbup:

Dillon Trussell


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Scuba, you are right, but there is no reason for anyone to follow others around and correct their spelling...good grief , how childish. 

*I know the Sawman personally and he certainly will not tell you on a forum and most likely not even in person because he is a very humble guy, but I will say this, there are few Men, Heroes and Patriots in this forum or anywhere that could stand shoulder to shoulder with the Sawman. I am honored to know and consider him a friend.*


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## jmsiv (Oct 13, 2011)

We need to change the name of this forum. I have an idea of two...

As the PFF Turns
Days of our PFF

It often gets better than daytime television.


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## MikeH (Jul 14, 2009)

jmsiv said:


> We need to change the name of this forum. I have an idea of two...
> 
> As the PFF Turns
> Days of our PFF
> ...


I agree, and if you pay attention its easy to see its usually the same 1 or 2 people.


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