# Red Snapper Season 2013



## Matt Mcleod

Do you support the FWC going non-compliant with red snapper regs? Online Petition

As many of you may know we are looking at an even shorter red snapper season for 2013. If Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi all stay compliant with the federal season we will get approximately 27 days, Texas has been non-compliant for several years now. The state of LA has already made it clear that they are not going to be compliant and are working through a few steps before their 7 month season will be official, so that would cut the 27 days down dramatically because of the way the total allowable catch (TAC) works.

Here’s a little background on how red snapper fishing is managed in the Gulf of Mexico. Each state has a section of water that is referred to as “state waters” which is the water within so many miles of that particular states coast. The state of Florida has 9 miles, Alabama 3, Mississippi 3, Louisiana 3 going to 10.3, and Texas 9. The fishery regulations in state waters are managed by that states Organization, for the state of Florida it’s the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The federal waters are managed by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and in our current situation by one man Dr. Roy Crabtree.

Another group involved is the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council. The Gulf Council is made up of people from all five states that make recommendations of the NMFS. Although it doesn’t seem like their opinion has mattered very much over the years when it comes to red snapper management.

The NMFS follows the rules of the Magnuson Stevens Act, but without going into pages of detail they are using bad science. There numbers are wrong and they know it, but Dr. Crabtree uses the excuse he has no option but to follow the law using the science and numbers he’s provided.

There are several reasons why the State of Florida has stayed compliant in the past. One of those reasons is funding from the federal government could be reduced or cut because Florida isn’t playing by the rules, but if Louisiana and Texas can handle it why can’t Florida. 

The biggest reason they have stayed compliant is likely because of the opposition of the charter boat sector and captains from Destin to Port St. Joe show up for meetings. Under the current rules if a charter boat holds a federal reef fish permit they are not allowed to fish in state waters for species that are closed in federal waters. That being said if red snapper is open in state waters and not federal waters boats that hold and wish to continue to hold their federal permit would not be allowed to fish for red snapper in state waters. This is another example of the government trying to force the states to stay compliant because they know charter boat operators will oppose non-compliance.

Right now we have a bigger opportunity than ever before to make substantial changes to the way red snapper are managed, but the only possible way for this to happen is to get the FWC to go non-compliant with the federal season. I have been going to fishery meetings for over 10 years and I strongly feel this is the best chance we have ever had! Louisiana has opened the door for us and we must get the FWC to take the same route.

What you must know is that Florida being non-compliant will most likely mean 0 days of federal waters red snapper season for recreational anglers and put charter boat operators in a horrible situation, but this will tear down the house of cards and force the NMFS to rethink their way of regulating. It has even been rumored that Dr. Crabtree would punish the states and place closures on other species in federal waters. 

Dr. Bob Shipp who sets on the Gulf Council is one of the most accredited and respected fishery scientists along the northern Gulf is in support of the states going non-compliant and breaking the system. Locally we have the support of Robert Turpin and in turn our local government to make a recommendation to the FWC Commissioners to go non-compliant.

Our boat “Hot Spots” holds a federal reef permit and this will have an effect on us as with any other charter, but do the few days of red snapper fishing we’re going to get June really help? The answer is NO, that is everyone’s busiest time of the year and people will want to go fishing during that time whether red snapper is open or not. Now on the other hand a red snapper season in the spring or fall sure would be good for business.

In order for the FWC to go non-compliant it will need to be an overwhelming amount of one sided support. I feel if it’s 50/50 that they will stay compliant with the federal regulations.

Feel free to discuss the current status of red snapper on this thread, but even if you don’t want to discuss would you please comment either “Yes” or “No” on whether you support non-compliance or not.

Feel free to contact me if you would like to further discuss…

Online Petition

Captain Matt McLeod
(850) 418-5333


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## jw1973

My first through is that I would support Non Compliance until I was convinced otherwise.


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## whome

I have supported non compliance for the last couple of years and will continue to support non compliance... Thanks for fighting the fight Matt...


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## Online CurrentSea

Yes, I would support 100%. The recreational "catch" data is in no way accurate. Over the years, I've never been stopped and asked about my personal catch history nor have any of my fishing buddies for that matter. Anyone who fishes our waters/reefs knows that Red Snapper have become so overpopulated that targeting other species is becoming useless. I also believe this is harming our other species (ex. trigger) due to the aggressiveness of RS. I worry that I will not be able to pass on such a great hobby and bonding experience with my two children due to tighter and tighter regulations. Considering the costs and investment it takes to fish offshore, at what point do the rec fishermen and tackle shops break?


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## TSpecks

Is the pic on Facebook true??


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## Realtor

Okay, so explain this:

federal reef permit holders, Can fish in federal waters for Red Snapper. These permits are expensive and the folks that have them are good to go, no more are being issued, right?

Federal reef permit holders are charter boats that can fish “for hire” (Charter) in federal waters and keep their limit of Red Snapper. If a “For Hire” (Charter) boat does NOT have a Federal Reef permit, then they cannot fish in Federal Waters for red Snapper and cannot keep any red Snapper from federal Waters, right?

Now, if the FWC goes “Non-Compliant” does this mean, any “for Hire” (Charter) can fish in federal Waters for red Snapper? I fail to see what difference this will make…..

Or, does this mean….

If the FWC goes “Non-compliant” then any “for hire” (charter) including the “Non Charter- just the guy out there fishing for fun” guy just out there fishing can keep red snapper from both Federal AND state waters?


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## John B.

Absolutely yes.

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


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## Chris Phillips

Here's a little speculation on what will happen if the FWC goes non-compliant. The recreational sector will be allowed to fish in state waters for much more than 27 days and boats that have a federal reef fish permit will not be able to fish for red snapper at all until some laws and rules are changed. We have to look at a long term plan, not how many days we're going to get this year because it's actually going to be so few days for everyone that it doesn't matter.


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## ADRENALINE

NO!


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## Realtor

What?


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## SaltAddict

Yes. While in the short term I believe it will hurt many. In the long term it appears to be the best option to shake up change. Something has to be done. They will never give back until we fight in some manner.


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## TOBO

Yes


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## aquatic argobull

And hypothetically if we were to go non-compliant, micro-managing the snapper resource by the FWC would allow them to give higher catch limits to areas known to have a higher population of red snapper (panhandle area).


Edit: I vote yes, by the way


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## sniperpeeps

100 percent yes


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## Flatspro

100% support non compliance! We need to take a stand! I am not gonna take my yak even close to 9 miles out.


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## J Smithers

Absolutely support non-compliance.


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## Captain Mickey O'Reilly

Yes for non compliance!


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## billin

*Snapper*

Will never work unless. Fl gets the FWC on board we must secure there funding otherwise they will enforce any rule passed down from big brother. The regional plan for Fl if extended out 200 NM and allowing FL registered charter boat only to fish the area regardless of the federal season also needs to happen. The charter boats won't be able to run the rigs anymore but most don't anyway. FWC funding could be achieved through a snapper/grouper harvest tag program THAT IS CONTROLLED BY THE STATE AND NON TRANSFERABLE TAGS Should BE AVAILABLE AT THE COUNTY TAX OFFICE ONLY. The tag program should not allow private sale or transfer in any manner to prevent corruption similar to the 51% TAC the commercial side has exploited for years. All funding should go to the FWC. Once this is accomplished we can then thumb or collective noses at big brother but until then we simply cannot afford too. FL just doesn't have the money Texas has Texas now has the 12th largest economy in the world they don't need the USA. La just don't care the only reason you can't buy booze in that state at age 18 today is they ran out of funding and I-10 was collapsing if they could hav e maintained the roads they would have told them to get bent long ago.Al ain't scared all the auto industry moving there bringing jobs and tax dollars they could tell the FEDS to pound sand as well but Fl just doesn't have the money.


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## billin

*Also*

I am not a bottom fishing fanatic I had much rather fish offshore. I however did take the time to attend the meeting last night it was my 3rd not a lot but I do have a full time job and it isn't fishing. I am shocked at the amount of people complaining on the forum along with in general chit chat out in public BUT everyone seems to have some excuse not to show up at the meetings. When they take it all no need in complaining then I mean just sayin last night was the time to complain


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## Chris Phillips

This is the FWC's decision to make, the seven commissioners. I'm sure they are influenced by other political offices, but those seven are the ones who vote on fishery regulations. I'm pretty confident that they would have went non-compliant several years ago, but the charter boat captains fought hard for that not to happen.


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## Mikvi

OK, It seems evident people on the forum want to go non-complient. How about we start doing something about it. Lets get a group together of about six and come up with a plan to make sure the FWC know the majority of recreational fisherman support non-complience. We will have to be able to discuss pros and cons with them, get legislaters on our side, get petitions signed and publicize it. Channel 3 is not our friend. I saw thier take on the proposed regs the other day and they only showed interviews with people who thought more regulation would be good. I'm willing to help, but we need more people who are willing to put some time in this. The only way we are going to protect our righjt to fish is to be heard. Suggestions and volunteers are appreciated.


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## jw1973

Chris, it looks like you and Matt support non-compliance. Do the other Charter Captains have the same opinions?


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## MrFish

Absolutely yes!


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## Chris Phillips

We are gaining their support slowly, we have a group of Orange Beach charter captains who are on board and gained support from a few of the Destin and Panama City guys last night. We've had little opposition, just not enough opportunity to speak to people YET. 

It's hard to convince someone to give up the little piece they have left, but unfortunately we (charter captains) realistically don't have anything left. A two - four week season in the peak of our busy season is nothing.


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## Mark Collins

Yes I support it


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## jjam

YES!

SHOULD BEEN SO FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW!!

Jimmy


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## dockmaster

The sad part of it is that Congressman Miller, just sits on his hands. Its not like he doesn't know about it. He claims to be a conservative, which means less govt, so you would think he would be dancing on tables to help the people of his District. NOT!! He along with the other gulf coast Ccongressman as a group, could put alot of pressure on NMFS, but its not happening as far as I can tell.
Yes for non compliance not only for fish, but for the rest of States Rights.

Billd


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## De Anza Jig

Yes!


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## DreamWeaver21

I am for it. While it would be nice to have the whole gulf fishery managed reasonably managed by a central authority, the NMFS has proven time and again that they are absolutely incapable of intelligently managing the fishery. Their collection and use of data, estimates, regulations, and change management process ranges from inept at best to ridiculously idiotic.

It is time for a better management solution.


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## Safari III

Although I live in MS I love fishing in Florida. I am in agreement and think all the states should go non-compliant. Like most of you I am fed up with our sorry disfunctional government. I attended the meeting in Biloxi on Tuesday and was extremely disappointed in the number of people there. There was probably less than 15. One third was charter, one third recreational and another 5 that was media or conservation officers. 
People if you don't show up at the meetings and never write your representatives or send your comments in writing to these counsels, it's the same as agreeing with what is happening. No opposition = agreement. I want thank those that do send the letters and attend the meetings.

Something to think about....If the states go non-compliant and the feds pull their funding do you think the state will patrol federal waters and enforce federal rules? I'm willing to bet not.


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## Berry

Bitching and complaining on Internet and around the dock will never amount to anything. Showing up in mass groups at meetings and emailing or writing congressmen over and over again is the only way to make anybody that can do something work in our favor. I was pleasantly surprised at the Orange beach meeting probably close to 150 packed in the room and that is what looks good on tv. If it could be followed up with several thousand letters to Alabama politicians we may get somebody on Montgomery to pay attention to us.


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## Captain Jake Adams

I am a federal permit holder and I am absolutely in favor of Florida going non compliant. There have been so many efforts in the past trying to work with the Feds and look what we have been reduced to now. Once they factor in the numbers from Louisiana being non compliant we will basically have no season anyway. This is the perfect opportunity for our commissioners to stand up for what is right. I am all for sound management of our resources and this presents the perfect opportunity to force the Feds hand. It will suck in the short run but something different has to be done! Stop having tunnel vision and see the big picture. As Matt said, the house of cards must crumble to force their hand and do something about the ridiculous science they are basing the laws on. The time is now!


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## Stink Bait

Yes for non compliance:thumbup:


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## bfish

*Yes*

Yes


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## cone

Yes on non compliance.


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## johnboatjosh

Absolutely 100% in favor of non compliance. It will hurt charter guys in the short term, however, I feel the long term benefits far out weigh the small # of snapper fishing days their gonna give up this year.


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## whome

Captain Jake Adams said:


> I am a federal permit holder and I am absolutely in favor of Florida going non compliant. There have been so many efforts in the past trying to work with the Feds and look what we have been reduced to now. Once they factor in the numbers from Louisiana being non compliant we will basically have no season anyway. This is the perfect opportunity for our commissioners to stand up for what is right. I am all for sound management of our resources and this presents the perfect opportunity to force the Feds hand. It will suck in the short run but something different has to be done! Stop having tunnel vision and see the big picture. As Matt said, the house of cards must crumble to force their hand and do something about the ridiculous science they are basing the laws on. The time is now!


You have to respect guys like this.... :thumbsup:


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## Burnt Drag

I've weathered hurricanes, oil spills, and ignorant agenda oriented ball busting feds. I could weather a season of no snapper. It's like Matt says, we've got nothing anyway. We're going to run every day regardless of snapper rules. But I do need to say this, Matt, ... do you think these dicks are going to go away if FL does go non-complient? I don't think so, but it will give them something to think about. RIght now, I'm very certain that your statements have already reverberated in their chambers. I'd give my dog some coffee... you may be a marked man... LOL!!!


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## doradohunter

I am in favor of non compliance. If the charter guys dont jump aboard this year there will be no snapper season next year!


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## jspooney

Non compliance all the way. I say we do it regardless of what the state does.


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## Chet88

What do we have to loose? By the time the dates are released for his year it will be under three week season if that and next year we won't have one at all. 

It is about time FWC grows a set and tells the Feds to stick it. YES TO NON COMPLIANT IN FL!


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## fish4life

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Snatch it

It will end up about 2 weeks due to weather ! Just like last year


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## catfever24

Chet88 said:


> What do we have to loose? By the time the dates are released for his year it will be under three week season if that and next year we won't have one at all.
> 
> It is about time FWC grows a set and tells the Feds to stick it. YES TO NON COMPLIANT IN FL!


X2 :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Chris Phillips

We really need everyone to comment on this thread even if its just yes or no. I would like to be able to point out this thread when I communicate with the commissioners this week. We have an online petition as well, but want to make sure the majority supports non-compliance before we move forward!


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## doradohunter

Capt. Chris, I think you should implement a poll type thread and have it stickied by the mods on here.


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## Realtor

I really think your “Fishing” when you think the FWC will just ignore the existing rules, just because the Fishermen want them to go “Non-Compliant” Who’s going the be the voice, a thread on an internet forum? Do the Fishermen really trust each other? Remember all the Charter Vs. Commercial Vs. Recreational threads? Who (names) are going to be representing the group? To be honest, I think your efforts are already too late, this probably should have been organized 2 years ago for this moment…… just giving you 2 more of my cents. 

Do you really think the lawmakers and Law Enforcement folks are going to go against established rules and regulations Just because we want them to?


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## cobia02

My days as a charter captain are rapidly coming to an end as the losses due to the short seasons have just about made it impossible to continue. I fully support non-compliance. As previously noted many times, if we do nothing the trend of environmental and commercial subsidy's to those in power will continue to dominate those making the rules until we (charter and recreational fishermen) are not included at all. Don't think that the political money machines are not at the top of this food chain. They have been since this very well thought out management scheme was passed by those in power to benefit those in power and slowly shift the balance of who can keep fish and who can't to those chosen by the chosen few! The only way to break them is to expose them. The first step that I see available is non-compliance.


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## SaltAddict

Chris, could you please post a link to the on line petition? 

If you need me to stand and be seen, just say when and where.


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## cbass

Berry said:


> Bitching and complaining on Internet and around the dock will never amount to anything. Showing up in mass groups at meetings and emailing or writing congressmen over and over again is the only way to make anybody that can do something work in our favor. I was pleasantly surprised at the Orange beach meeting probably close to 150 packed in the room and that is what looks good on tv. If it could be followed up with several thousand letters to Alabama politicians we may get somebody on Montgomery to pay attention to us.


I agree with Berry 100%! I scuba dive and around artificial reefs all you see is Snapper!!! We need to stop chatting and start doing! What's CRAZY is in less than 24 hours the following have gave a clear "YES" to go Non-Compliant. Clearly State Yes or NO. Who's going to do something with this list and request personal info instead of just usernames?
Captain Matt McLeod

Captain Jon PinneyOnline CurrentSea

John B.

SaltAddict

TOBO

aquatic argobull

sniperpeeps

Flatspro

J Smithers

Captain Mickey O'Reilly

MrFish

k Collins

jjam

De Anza Jig

DreamWeaver21

Safari III

Berry

Captain Jake Adams

Stink Bait

bfish

cone

johnboatjosh

Burnt Drag

doradohunter

jspooney

Chet88

fish4life

Cbass


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## Cat's Away

YES!!!!:thumbup:


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## Catchinem

I kayak fish for Snapper. I'm looking out my window to my spot which is 1 1/2 miles off the beach. If I could go out in my backyard and keep just 1 fresh 8lb Snapper a month year round I would be totally satisfied. If we could get a 6 month season like every other month year round, I would be satisfied if I could keep 2 a month. I don't want much. Just fresh or recently frozen Snapper year round that I catch out of my kayak. I vote yes for whatever it takes for me to be able to do that. I abide by the regs now and always have but I'm losing my patience. By the way, those June Snapper I catch are always slap full of eggs. That's a major flaw in their regs.


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## Chris Phillips

Here's the online petition, this is going to be the best approach to get everyone's actual name! 

Non Compliance


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## Realtor

so, is Hotspots the mouth of this movement?


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## Chris Phillips

Realtor, I can't really get a grasp of your 2 cent! We currently have two states who are going to be non-compliant and three states who are compliant, so we are not asking the State of Florida to do something unorthodox that has never been done before. I'm not sure where your negativity comes from, but all I can really say is there are some people in life who give up and there are some who don't. Matt and I are not two new guys coming forward with no knowledge of fishery management thinking a thread on the fishing forum can get this done, we have been involved in the fight for many years and feel without a shadow of a doubt that this is the best opportunity we've ever had. Just last year we traveled to Tampa, New Orleans, and D.C. in addition to local meetings on our own dime! 

Do you support non-compliance or not?


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## Ginzu

First off, let me say that I support non-compliance. 

I moved here in the summer of 2011 and got into kayak fishing because of a co-worker. Over the next year I learned alot about the fishing in this area. Having moved around the world all of my life, I have experienced all types of fishing and I have to say this area is one of the best. It amazes me the variety of species available to us in such a small stretch of real estate. BUT, I am even more amazed by this Snapper situation. As a recreational angler, it boggles my mind that we are getting shafted with shorter seasons on a species that is CLEARLY thriving in this region. Drop a bait down on any offshore structure here and you are going to catch a Snapper. We have fished structure off Destin, Okaloosa, Navarre, and Pensacola with one common theme. They are all holding large Snapper populations. Hell, we've caught them at 3 Mile bridge. I logged 13 different species of fish during Kayak Wars in 2012 while ranking 2nd place in the Southeast Region. The only species I caught more of than Snapper was Redfish. There is nothing more disheartening than pulling up Snapper after Snapper and having to toss them back, knowing that 1. there is a chance they won't live after venting 2. they are going to reproduce more and decimate the other reef fish 3. Ignorant Politicians are going to eventually make it a catch and release species. 

For the Charter guys, I really feel for you. Our economy is going to shit and it's hard enough as it is. You guys are getting squeezed. Who wants to go on a charter and not take home fish? Catch and release Snapper is fun for a little while, but how do you catch grouper and other species when the Snapper are eating everything in sight? 

As a military guy, I tend to think in common sense terms. Having spent so much time on the water this last year and a half, I've seen first hand that our Snapper population here is booming. I would be willing to sign any petition or poll to help make a change. These videos say it all. 

Robert Long


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## SaltAddict

Petition signed.


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## redfish99999

*Non-compliance??????*

We don't even know what it means at this point..... The new FWC rules could be same, better or worse....we don't know....

What we do know is that decisions made will be political decisions and will not be based on any scientific data.

I'd like to see an open season with a one fish limit...ain't gonna happen....

After flawed considerations, I'm for non-compliance......... I think......


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## flounder1156

Chris/Matt /Jake /Billin....thank you for explainning the regulations/season on RS. I support the non compliance.
The state of Florida has the ability to regulate the marine species of fish in state waters. 
I would support as Billin stated a "reef fish fee" as long as it would be avaiable at the local level ...tax collector...tackle shops ...purchase on line ...and funds for this stamp are generated for the monitoring and management of reef fish in state waters.
The fee would have a sunset clause that would limit the life of the fee. 
With the current 27 day season/ 1 fish limit... the state is lossing out on fishing revenues from all industries that support fishing .....boating business....tackle stores/baitshops..... etc. When they start closing shop due to economic conditions brought on by over regulation ..we all lose ...so we need to band together.


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## Chris Phillips

Non-compliance means that the state does not match the federal ruling, which right now looks like 27 days starting June 1 and could potentially be cut it half. If we could get what LA is looking to do this season within the next 5 years I would call this effort a home run grand slam!


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## nextstep

signed it
did not donate to ipetitions
hope my name went on the petition
here is my comment:

i am a florida resident. i am for the fwc going non-compliant on the issue of red snapper regulations. the federal government has clearly mismanaged our resource for years and it is time to end their extortion of my state.


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## Realtor

Not sure, Do you have the local elected officials (NWFL) support? if not, then I think your beating a silent drum... Your trying to do this "Non-Compliant" thing and in order to do so, I would think the local (and state) officials would have to support it. FWC is a state agency, they enforce what the state rules and regulations are.... I mean, really soon the 2013 snapper season will be announced. I just think this is a little too late, your trying to get this enacted for this season, right?

I’ll be the first to admit, I am not “completely” knowledgeable about all this, however, just a few non funded fishermen going against the BIG money special interest groups is a waste of effort. Especially (from what I see) is trying to squeeze something under the radar. That’s my 2 cents.

I (we) have seen these online petitions, threads, discussions in the past. They all lead to the same place. In order to accomplish something like this it takes time, planning and mostly MONEY. I am sure the other States have been working with their state leadership for some time on this issue? Has Florida Fishermen been organized? Did I miss the boat?

Not busting this, but just being realistic. If I missed the boat, tell me and I’ll go away from this issue.


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## The LaJess II

Yes, for non compliant.

We all know that staying compliant is not working now and will not work in the future. Their goal for all of us in 2020 is catch and release only. See for yourselves read the NOAA document below called Vision 2020. We need to take over our own fisheries and implement a reef program. FWC has a questioner that they having been sending monthly and the questions are more generated to how much money I spend for fuel, storage, ice, food, etc.,. I feel like they are seriously looking at how much money the recreational fisherman contributes to the economy. The survey only ask a few questions about what species of fish I target. You can go to the FWC website and request the monthly survey.


NOAA Vision 2020 Document

APPENDIX IV: RECREATIONAL FISHING 
Issue Statement 1: Growth in populations and coastal tourism are resulting in increasing numbers of recreational fishermen. Therefore, the impact these fishermen are having on fish stocks is increasing. As this demand for recreational fishing continues to increase, recreational fishermen will request increases in fish allocated to the recreational sector. 
Background: According to a NOAA report21, an estimated 153 million people lived in coastal counties in 2003. This population represents an increase of 33 million people or 28 percent from 1980. In addition, a review of NOAA sponsored Marine Recreational Fisheries Statistical Survey data from the years 1981 to 2005 shows a near doubling nationally of marine recreational anglers from 6.9 million to 11.2 million or a growth rate of approximately 3 percent per year. The value of recreational fishing as an economic engine for coastal communities should be recognized and exploited to a greater degree. The recreational fishing experience could rival or exceed recreational fishing catch as a prime motivator for recreational fishing. 
Current Situation: The current rate of increase in the angling population creates new management concerns. If the rate of recreational fishermen continues to increase at 3 percent per annum, by 2020 the number of recreational fishermen will increase by 7.3 million to a projected level of 18.5 million. This change will result in a significant increase of fishing effort and catch (i.e., mortality), all else equal. By 2020 continued growth in recreational angling will require that anglers focus more on the fishing experience and less on the number of fish landed. However, while post-release mortality in catch and release fisheries is usually low (often 2-5 percent), as fishing effort increases, post-release mortality will become an increasing proportion of total mortality. It is conceivable that the cumulative total of post-release mortality could increase to levels equal to the total allowable mortality for a fishery. As the number of recreational fishermen continues to increase, improved monitoring will be necessary to assess the fishing effort and catch. A national saltwater angler’s registry under development will be a necessary tool to collect data. 
Preferred State in 2020: Many recreational species have limited population growth rates and are too valuable to be caught only once. By 2020, catch and release fishing is emphasized and accounted for in specific species assessments. The proper techniques for release are refined and disseminated to lower post release mortality. For other fisheries, minimum size limits and reduced daily bag limits are sufficient management measures to maintain healthy standing stocks. Additional seasonal closures are considered to eliminate or redirect effort. By 2020, angler satisfaction is derived from the recreational fishing experience rather than the take or “kill” fish. To achieve optimum yield, adaptive management measures such as a temporary reallocation of quota is available to managers. For example, if commercial quota is not harvested, managers are able to temporarily 
17 
reassign the under harvested quota to provide additional recreational opportunity, and vice versa. 
Proposed Actions to Accomplish Preferred State: 
(a) Improve collection of recreational catch, release, and harvest data, 
(b) Create and use the recreational angler registry. 
(c) Continue to promote catch and release fisheries, 
(d) Reduce daily bag limits and implement minimum or maximum size limits when necessary for those fish stocks where resorting to total catch and release is not necessary, 
(e) Promote research to accurately quantify and minimize post release mortality, 
(f) Increase the length of seasonal closures when necessary and encourage the recreational community to maximize the profitability of open seasons, 
(g) Amend fishery management plans to allow for timely conversion of unused commercial allocation to the recreational sector and vice versa; 
(h) Implement a variety of programs and incentives to enhance the conservation ethic of recreational anglers. 
Proposed Entity(s) to Promote Actions: 
(a) The leadership of the recreational fishing community should promote the total recreational fishing experience, instill a conservation ethic, and de-emphasize landings. 
(b) Industry and NOAA Fisheries should continue to support research and technology designed to reduce post release mortality. 
(c) Management (councils, commissions, NOAA Fisheries) should consider extending closed seasons to reduce mortality. 
(d) Management, (councils, commissions, NOAA Fisheries), should amend fishery management plans to allow, when appropriate, the conversion of commercial quota onto recreational quota and vice versa.


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## Chris Phillips

This season would be great, but if not next season would be fine too! We are looking long term here... The way the process works is the NMFS (Crabtree) will announce their season, at the FWC Commission meeting following that announcement the FWC commissioners will vote to either be compliant with the feds or not, if the answer is non-compliance then the next step is to figure out what the season and bag limit should be. They have been non-compliant before, just not to this extreme, remember when state water use to open a couple weeks before the federal snapper season?


----------



## SaltAddict

Realtor, I believe Chris is trying to tell you, the boat just pulled up. Would you like to jump on?


----------



## gator7_5

Realtor said:


> Do you really think the lawmakers and Law Enforcement folks are going to go against established rules and regulations Just because we want them to?


 
Um, it's already happened twice with Texas and La. So the answer is yes, absolutely.


----------



## Chet88

Chris Phillips said:


> This season would be great, but if not next season would be fine too! We are looking long term here... The way the process works is the NMFS (Crabtree) will announce their season, at the FWC Commission meeting following that announcement the FWC commissioners will vote to either be compliant with the feds or not, if the answer is non-compliance then the next step is to figure out what the season and bag limit should be. They have been non-compliant before, just not to this extreme, remember when state water use to open a couple weeks before the federal snapper season?


So the FWC Commissioners have sole authority regarding being Non-Compliant?


----------



## nextstep

could or would rick scott get behind this?
he says he wants jobs
longer seasons means lots of jobs for florida.
he wants to cut regulation.
he appears to like deep sea fishing.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/your-...s-fla-governors-fishing-top-spot-job-creation

rick scott snapper fishing


----------



## boatman

There are less boats fishing for snapper then in the 70s and 80s. How can we be hurting the stock NOW !! I owned a marine dealership for over 20yrs. Sold more then 250 fishing boats a year. It will NEVER come back!! The fishing stock will never be hurt by the recreational fisherman because they simply can't afford it anymore. The Federal Government is chasing a ghost to control us. I hate to say this, but the only way to win this is by FORCE !!! Stand up for your rights and take back what is yours ! And tell them to go to HELL !! Bob


----------



## Chris Phillips

The commissioners are appointed by the governor and their job is set fishing regulations. Although I would assume that Governor Scott has the authority to approve or deny whatever he wants.


----------



## The LaJess II

Chris just sent out a mass email with link to petition and will post it on myfacebook page. Thanks Chris.


----------



## FenderBender

Petition signed, would be interested in any kind of organized event if we can make that happen.


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## Tyler Massey

I am 100% for Non-compliance!!


----------



## nextstep

Chris Phillips said:


> The commissioners are appointed by the governor and their job is set fishing regulations. Although I would assume that Governor Scott has the authority to approve or deny whatever he wants.


what do you think about sending the petition to his office?


----------



## Chet88

I signed it and have linked it on my Facebook and The Hull Truth-Gulf Coast Section.


----------



## CoastalDon

I support non compliance and signed the petition


----------



## kanaka

I applaud your efforts and signed your online petition. 

HOWEVER, Realtor has a point on "...time, planning and mostly Money..." Are we duplicating efforts of other organizations? Can we join forces, combine efforts?
Here's something I just got from CCA.

Gulf Council Seeking Comments on Regional Management of
Recreational Red Snapper

The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council recently announced projections that indicate the 2013 recreational red snapper season will be the shortest ever, at just 27 days. That is a shocking announcement when coupled with what appears to be an astounding red snapper recovery. Faced with unprecedented frustration from anglers and Gulf States alike, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council is now seeking public input on a proposed amendment that examines regional management of recreational red snapper.

Regional management of recreational red snapper is at the very earliest stages of discussion and an extraordinary number of details remain undefined. In the most basic terms, Regional Management would give states more control to propose red snapper management measures tailored to specific regions of the Gulf of Mexico. However, it should be stressed that Regional Management as currently being considered will not give states total control over this fishery. The states will be limited by what the federal fishery management system gives them to manage. The federal government would still determine the total allowable harvest and the states would have only the ability to determine things like seasons, limits and other regulations within the same overall parameters.

Copies of the Regional Management scoping document a can be downloaded from the Gulf Council's website.

Coastal Conservation Association supports driving management of marine resources to the lowest levels of government possible. That position is staked in the belief that the states simply have a better grasp of how to manage these resources in ways that ensure their health and stability. At the same time, state agencies have proven their expertise in providing the greatest access to those resources and maximizing the benefits of those resources for their citizens. Almost every one of this country’s great marine conservation success stories has been engineered by the states.

While many details to Regional Management are lacking at this point, CCA generally views Regional Management as a potential path to achieving our overriding goal of healthy marine resources and increased access to them for the greatest benefit of the public.

CCA has provided testimony at a recent series of workshops on Regional Management that were held along the Gulf Coast, but we also encourage our members to make their own voices heard on these issues as well. Comments can be made to the Gulf Council online at this LINK:
http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_... - Regional Management of Rec Red Snapper.php


----------



## Chris Phillips

That's the CCA basically forwarding a press release from the NMFS. We attended those meetings two nights this week, Orange Beach and Destin. That will not change anything, under that regional management plan / possibilities the feds will continue to regulate it and work within the current total allowable catch, meaning no more days and the same old science. This is the feds way of saying let us manage you state by state before you go non-complainant and do it on your own. I have nothing against CCA Florida, but I can't tell you they don't try near as hard as CCA TX and CCA LA.


----------



## Dynamic

I support going non-compliant!!!....Lets stick it to 'em!!!!


----------



## devndeb

Signed it in the Affirmative!!!! These butt clowns at the NMFS need to WAKE UP and stop having the environmental lobby tell them what is right or wrong...Also, Crabtree needs to GO!!!!


----------



## Redtracker

I support non compliance


----------



## Wade Schepper

100% support non complience


----------



## Fishinut

Yes, for support of non compliance. Petition signed


----------



## nextstep

Realtor said:


> Not sure, Do you have the local elected officials (NWFL) support? if not, then I think your beating a silent drum... Your trying to do this "Non-Compliant" thing and in order to do so, I would think the local (and state) officials would have to support it. FWC is a state agency, they enforce what the state rules and regulations are.... I mean, really soon the 2013 snapper season will be announced. I just think this is a little too late, your trying to get this enacted for this season, right?
> 
> I’ll be the first to admit, I am not “completely” knowledgeable about all this, however, just a few non funded fishermen going against the BIG money special interest groups is a waste of effort. Especially (from what I see) is trying to squeeze something under the radar. That’s my 2 cents.
> 
> I (we) have seen these online petitions, threads, discussions in the past. They all lead to the same place. In order to accomplish something like this it takes time, planning and mostly MONEY. I am sure the other States have been working with their state leadership for some time on this issue? Has Florida Fishermen been organized? Did I miss the boat?
> 
> Not busting this, but just being realistic. If I missed the boat, tell me and I’ll go away from this issue.


the beginning of a long journey starts with the first step


----------



## xicablo

Being in Mobile, AL and birthing out of Dauphin Island, I've fished with Bob Shipp on occasion . . . 

I support Florida's move to non-compliance and would hope other states would, as well . . .


----------



## nextstep

it seems our representatives understand the damage a 27 day season does to florida's economy. below is from last year. i wonder how many billions this will cost the state. the money lost is what gets their attention.




NOAA Fisheries Service announces that the closure date for the Gulf of Mexico recreational red snapper season is being extended six days. *The new closure time is 12:01 a.m. local time, July 17, 2012. *
This announcement comes following a letter to NOAA from Florida Senators Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio after tropical storm Debby impacted the eastern Gulf of Mexico for more than a week in late June. The inclement weather put a significant dent in the shortest red snapper season on record and prompted Florida’s two U.S. Senators to write a letter requesting an extension to the season. 
“We’ve spoken at length about the red snapper fishery and its economic impact in the state of Florida. Fishing is more than a job in the Gulf of Mexico – it is a way of life,” wrote Sens. Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio. “Shortened seasons, decreased bag limits, and closures severely impact these coastal communities. We urge you to ensure that fishermen aren’t unfairly disadvantaged by weather that is out of their control, and extend the red snapper season accordingly.”
The request by Nelson and Rubio is accompanied by a similar letter from 17 members of the U.S. House of Representatives also seeking an extension of the season.


----------



## markw4321

Correct me if I am wrong but there is already a precedent set for Florida / FWC going non-compliant with Federal grouper season think this first occurred in 2012.

As I recall several Florida counties in the big bend area of florida (steinhatchee area) have a grouper season (gag and red i think) that is outside the federal water season. I also believe that when federal water is open in those counties state water has to close, meaning that fisherman can still enjoy the gulf federal water grouper season but they have to fish in federal waters. Basically,'I believe it increased the days you can fish for grouper in those counties. You just have to make sure you are fishing in state or federal waters depending on which is open.

Imagine a plan where state waters were open in panhandle counties for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for nine weekends in a row and the panhandle state waters were closed for snapper and federal water snapper opened for another 27? straight days. Or it could be done in October in state waters. Growing up i always loved to fish for snapper in the fall.


----------



## markw4321

If you can't tell I support non-compliance by the way.


----------



## Realtor

Thanks for that nugget mark.

I suggest you gather all the "local" county commissioners together (not Hard to do) and if able, get a strong showing from the local fishing community to attend and ask them directly "What are you doing about this Snapper Season"? That forces their hands to do something, especially the timing is about right when all that BP fine money comes to the County..... Think about it. I would even bet the local state congressmen would appear. The trick would be to get people to show up for the event..... Get a local (Pensacola) place to provide the space free of charge and bam there you go, you on the map..... Most important is "what message do you want to convey"? That why a couple pages back I asked "who the voice was going to be?" Before I support something “all in” I want to know who and exactly what I am being asked to support. Organize, Organize, develop a clear message, what is that message? The data is flawed? I’ll bet they haven’t heard that one before. 

I keep hearing that Pensacola is having SUPER STRONG hotel usage and the bed tax collections are going through the roof, but at the same time, they pass the 4 cent gas tax because we are broke? Is it all in the media just telling us this? Possibly put the local economy spin on the issue and include the jobs that will be lost because of all this mess….. again, I am not fighting this, is there something behind the curtains going on with this local to pensacola i may be missing?


----------



## Chet88

markw4321 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but there is already a precedent set for Florida / FWC going non-compliant with Federal grouper season think this first occurred in 2012.
> 
> As I recall several Florida counties in the big bend area of florida (steinhatchee area) have a grouper season (gag and red i think) that is outside the federal water season. I also believe that when federal water is open in those counties state water has to close, meaning that fisherman can still enjoy the gulf federal water grouper season but they have to fish in federal waters. Basically,'I believe it increased the days you can fish for grouper in those counties. You just have to make sure you are fishing in state or federal waters depending on which is open.
> 
> Imagine a plan where state waters were open in panhandle counties for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for nine weekends in a row and the panhandle state waters were closed for snapper and federal water snapper opened for another 27? straight days. Or it could be done in October in state waters. Growing up i always loved to fish for snapper in the fall.


The Fall season always made sense to me. Usually better weather (excluding Hurricanes) and helps bring in more people during the start of the "off season" for retailers. I liked the weekend season we got after the oil spill in Oct. and Nov.


----------



## seacapt

Yes


----------



## bayougrande

I SUPPORT...AND SIGNED!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## markw4321

here is a link to the proposed 2013 non compliant florida gag grouper season in certain gulf counties. http://m.myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/groupers/gulf-grouper/

The 2013 season will be decided in february. As I recall fwc enacted it for 2012 stating it was for "economic" stimulus in those counties. Looks to me like Escambia and other panhandle counties could use some "economic" stimulus with a non-compliant red snapper season in state waters. Wonder who pushed it for these counties to get special consideration by fwc for a gag grouper season not consistent with the federal season?

Wonder if Roy Crabtree would find it acceptable if florida state waters were only open 27 days in 2013 by giving fisherman 9 weekends in a row
where snapper was open for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday which would equal 27 days. state waters could be closed when federal season was open for 27 days, thus lengthening the season and stimulating the economy? 

Somehow I doubt Roy would approve but 27 days is 27 days even if it is split into separate bodies of waters (state and federal). Might even be better for the fishery?


----------



## Tom Hilton

Mark,
No, Roy will tell you that 27 weekend days is not equal to 27 contiguous days. So, if you want to do 3 day weekend seasons, the number of days, according to Roy and his numbers boy's calculations will be somewhere around 14 days in stead of 27.

That's how the game is played, and will continue to be played even if regionalization is adopted.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## markw4321

Thanks Tom. I thought there would have to be a "factor" that federal managers would use to subtract days for a "weekend only" season. Now I know what it is.


----------



## knot @ Work

Most of us non charter guys fish weekends, shame we could not do the whole summer season open for snapper fishing.

Yes for non comply 

Tired of stinkin government rules and regs taking our freedoms away.


----------



## The LaJess II

Got questions today by friends and family members about signing the petition because they live out of State. If you live out of State and buy a fishing license when you come to Florida you are contributing to our tourism and helping to establish our fisheries Please sign. Also want to let you know that for those of you that want to post the petition on your Facebook page like I did and no one responded because everyone was BS and keep pushing my page down. You can promote by going to your private home page and at the bottom of petition it will say promote. Click on promote and for 7.00 bucks thru PayPal or credit card it will send messages out and remind each person on your face book page that you are sponsoring petition.I got over 20 signs from promoting on Facebook.


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## fishFEEDER9697

*It depends...*

Non-compliance would only be effective inside state water. 
If Florida or any other gulf state were to up the catch limit or extend their season (beyond the federal season), the net effect would be tighter regs in federal water to compensate for a greater portion of the TAC being taken up by state fisheries. 

I vote no.


----------



## bag limit

yes


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## fishFEEDER9697

A huge portion of the recreational TAC is being eat up by Texas' 4 per person/yr round policy.


----------



## fishFEEDER9697

I do support regional management. I agree that this area is not like others and that the Gulf Council's blanket policies are giving the northern gulf the shaft on ARS.


----------



## Tyler Massey

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> Non-compliance would only be effective inside state water.
> If Florida or any other gulf state were to up the catch limit or extend their season (beyond the federal season), the net effect would be tighter regs in federal water to compensate for a greater portion of the TAC being taken up by state fisheries.
> 
> I vote no.


That's the point of this whole thing. If the state of Florida were to go non-compliant then it would most likely force the federal regulations to allow nearly to 0 days of a federal Red Snapper season. Texas already went non-compliant and Lousiana will make their decision in the next few months. If Lousiana does it will most likely decrease the number of days this year to be in the teens. Florida going non-compliant and driving the number to 0 would force something to change! Although this could have a negative effect for this season or next years season it will be very beneficial in a long term sence.


----------



## Tyler Massey

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> I do support regional management. I agree that this area is not like others and that the Gulf Council's blanket policies are giving the northern gulf the shaft on ARS.


Under a federal regional "management" program we would still be working with 27 days or less of snapper season and the same flawed numbers. We would have the same TAC for the year. There is no way we can accept this program and let the Federal government continue to controle us.

All regional management boundary lines lump all of NWF in the same region as the rest of Florida, this would still give us the shaft...


----------



## fishFEEDER9697

Example: The gulf states might petition to have no snapper harvested in federal water be landed in Texas-- a diplomatic sanction, if you will.


----------



## fishFEEDER9697

One thing is for sure. NMFS is not going away. No congress will challenge the Magnuson-Stevens Act. 
Okay, that was two. 
I just don't see non-compliance as the best answer.


----------



## Tyler Massey

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> Example: The gulf states might petition to have no snapper harvested in federal water be landed in Texas-- a diplomatic sanction, if you will.


That wouldn't change anything I don't think.. Texas has a year round season that allows 4 fish per person. They have taken this into account and this is part of the reason the Federal season has been reduced to 27 days. Not allowing fish to be landed in Texas that were caught in Federal waters would be almost impossible to be enforced and very costly if it was.


----------



## Tom Hilton

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> A huge portion of the recreational TAC is being eat up by Texas' 4 per person/yr round policy.


Really? According to NMFS numbers, about 0.3% of the Gulf red snapper TAC is landed from Texas state waters. 

Hardly a huge portion. Sounds more like a huge portion of EDF/CFA propaganda to me. 

Remember, Texas state water snapper have ALWAYS been included in the Gulf-wide landings and were NEVER an issue - that is, until just after the 2006 reauthorization of Magnuson, which began the hijack of our fisheries by the enviro anti-fishing zealots.

Let's face it, the NMFS has blatantly failed in their task to manage the fisheries in the Gulf - they need to hand over the reins of management to the Gulf states who have an infinitely better history of managing our wildlife resources for the best interests of the wildlife and the citizens who enjoy that wildlife.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## lastcast

We create a lot of unatural habitate to make our fishing better. A sector seperation might be looked at. We have alot of Red Snapper!:thumbup:


----------



## fishFEEDER9697

Tom Hilton said:


> Really? According to NMFS numbers, about 0.3% of the Gulf red snapper TAC is landed from Texas state waters.
> 
> Hardly a huge portion. Sounds more like a huge portion of EDF/CFA propaganda to me.
> 
> No. I'm not talking about what amount of ARS is landed in Texas. I'm saying that when the feds go to figuring what the season and bag limit will be, they consider how many states they have, how many licensed anglers per state (even non-residents), *length of state seasons and state bag limits *(if they are non-compliant). Then they take that off of the top of the TAC. If all the gulf states' seasons were in line with the federal season, it would remove a giant hypothetical negative from the equation.


----------



## fishFEEDER9697

I'm with you guys about there being plenty of snapper here. I agree that the regs do not make sense here applied as they are. The fact is that the rest of the gulf and much of the east coast is not as well endowed as we. Conservation is not the devil. You cannot strong arm the govt. I do not need a revolution over recreational fishing. I am not in business for myself that depends on it like some of the big advocates. If I were, I would support non-compliance on this issue, but I don't.


----------



## markw4321

Conservation is not the devil. In this case conservation is satan's lap dog.


----------



## Chris Phillips

I don't believe that regional management is going to go any further, didn't seem very well received in Orange Beach or Destin. This was just another stunt by King Roy to attempt to make everyone believe it was going to be better, but it won't improve with the NMFS until something is done with the science. By the way I'm all for conservation and good regulations, but lets be real!


----------



## Magic Mike

Support non-compliance and signed petition. 

Mike McDuff


----------



## The LaJess II

Until they stop counting the fish by pounds things are not going to change. The bigger the fish get the less days & fish we get. Their science is a no win situation. If we only have 14 days to fish this season and we only actually get to fish 2 days out of the 14 due to the weather they will come back and say we over fished. It happened last year why wouldn’t it happen this year? They do not want to change the science because NOAA Vision in 2020 is to be catch and release only. I’m not going to sit and wait to see if that happens. I’m going down screaming and kicking at least I can say I didn’t just sit on my butt and just let it happen.


----------



## Lyin Too

Yes


----------



## Tom Hilton

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> No. I'm not talking about what amount of ARS is landed in Texas. I'm saying that when the feds go to figuring what the season and bag limit will be, they consider how many states they have, how many licensed anglers per state (even non-residents), *length of state seasons and state bag limits *(if they are non-compliant). Then they take that off of the top of the TAC. If all the gulf states' seasons were in line with the federal season, it would remove a giant hypothetical negative from the equation.


A giant hypothetical negative? I think they have been subtracting 2 days from the federal season due to Texas noncompliance. Hardly "giant".

They are talking about subtracting 13 or more days from the federal season this year for Louisiana's noncompliance if La. institutes its March to Sept weekend season.

There is a reason for the 10th Amendment of the US Consitution - to delineate the powers that the federal governments has vs what the states have. This is an attempt by the feds to usurp the US Constitution and should not be tolerated, much less condoned by certain useful idiots.


----------



## billin

*Snapper count*

As stated at the Destin meeting we are working of 2009 numbers the last stock assessment is set for review in June this year. I am willing to bet after the next assessment we gain days of fishing to prevent further non-compliance similar to the days they added last year due to the weather. It's all a game guys


----------



## DI 310

billin, don't get your hopes up.Dr.Powers,who is one in charge of getting the new stock assessment stated on television last week having a 90 day snapper season is gone forever. Sounds to me whatever the numbers are we are screwed.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

Preferred State in 2020: Many recreational species have limited population growth rates and are too valuable to be caught only once. By 2020, catch and release fishing is emphasized and accounted for in specific species assessments. The proper techniques for release are refined and disseminated to lower post release mortality. For other fisheries, minimum size limits and reduced daily bag limits are sufficient management measures to maintain healthy standing stocks. Additional seasonal closures are considered to eliminate or redirect effort. By 2020, angler satisfaction is derived from the recreational fishing experience rather than the take or “kill” fish.


----------



## markw4321

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Preferred State in 2020: Many recreational species have limited population growth rates and are too valuable to be caught only once. By 2020, catch and release fishing is emphasized and accounted for in specific species assessments. The proper techniques for release are refined and disseminated to lower post release mortality. For other fisheries, minimum size limits and reduced daily bag limits are sufficient management measures to maintain healthy standing stocks. Additional seasonal closures are considered to eliminate or redirect effort. By 2020, angler satisfaction is derived from the recreational fishing experience rather than the take or “kill” fish.


Our chum Emily has stated that the above statement is a statement from a strategic document prepared by a company contracted by NFS and that all the recommendations contained within it have not been adopted by the NFS.

From the outside looking in to me looks like NFS is ahead of the 2020 schedule for snapper.


----------



## MrFish

markw4321 said:


> Our chum Emily has stated that the above statement is a statement from a strategic document prepared by a company contracted by NFS and that all the recommendations contained within it have not been adopted by the NFS.
> 
> From the outside looking in to me looks like NFS is ahead of the 2020 schedule for snapper.


She can claim that all she wants. If they weren't adopting it, then they shouldn't have it on their website.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ocs/documents/Vision_2020_FINAL-1.pdf


----------



## markw4321

I know - just saying....to say


----------



## Chris Phillips

Roy stated very clearly at an after hours round table meeting last year that we will never see more than a seventy day snapper season in our lifetime! If that doesn't make it clear that the system is broken I don't know what does. How much sense does it make to count the fish by pound instead of by number?


----------



## Tom Hilton

MAFAC is the Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee that made the Vision 2020 recommendation in 2007 - what a surprise! Right after the Hijack (2006 Reauthorization of Magnuson). Lots of environmentalists and commercial fish members on that committee - again, what a surprise! 

Chris Phillips - you hit the nail on the head. Counting fish by the pound makes sense for the commercial fishery since they sell their fish by the pound. They are regulating the recreational sector, who has to abide by the NUMBER OF FISH per day they can keep, with commercial fishing parameters. 

Show us the science that says that taking FEWER heavier fish results in fewer fishing days. In 2006, according to their figures, we harvested around 1,320,000 fish. In 2011, according to their figures, we harvested just 718,000 fish (almost half the fish), yet we are overfishing?

Show us the science that says altering the eco-balance doesn't decimate the ocean's ecosystems as the large snapper are overpopulating and taking over habitats, eating everything in sight - triggerfish eggs/larvae, vermillion juveniles, and even red snapper larvae/juveniles!

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## ross68

I support is 100% the current season is a joke as is the data enforcing the season!


----------



## Reel Sick

Yes!!! Non-compliance


----------



## dustyflair

So if Red Snapper is closed in Fed Waters and a charter boat capt wants to fish for snapper in State Waters they can't if they hold a reef permit? Well that would be ANY/ALL off shore charter boats as they ALL have reef permits! So for the Charter Boats wanting to go non-compliant won't help them at all. Their season will still be limited to the 27 days or whatever bullshit number of days King Roy has granted all of us! The crazy thing is the Snapper are eating everything out there as there are sooooo many of them. There's NO WAY, NO WAY the current number or recreation fishermen and the Charter Boats can even put a dent in them!

I think FLA should go non compliant! Have a year round open season, 2 fish, min 16" per fishermen. If anything it will help the reefs IMO!


----------



## SeaHawk10

Yes----absolutely


----------



## seashaker

yes to non- compliance


----------



## boatman

I'll bet in the 70s and 80s I knew at least 6 or 7 people ( each had there own boat ) and they would fill 2 and 3 120 coolers and sell there snapper to local fish market's and restaurants at $ .75 a pound and would make the boat payment, fuel and bait. they were called " recreational fisherman " I would also bet that one from this group would catch more stapper in a year back then, than all the recreational fisherman leaving out of Pensacola and Orange Beach now, with a 4 fish limit, 6 month season. And I think a slot of 14 to 21 would help on the culling. The economy and the gas prices are taking care of the snapper far better than the assholes running our government. WE don't need half-ass scientific research, just good old common sense. Bob


----------



## DI 310

I used to believe that common sense would prevail with the management of the snapper fishery. As I look at it now any common sense approach is completely out of the picture. I wish all Gulf States would go non-compliant and see if Roy would shut the entire fishery down. We have gone from fishing year round to around 190 days, to 60 days, to 40 days and now maybe 27days. As far as I am concerned, it might as well be closed. Shut it down and let Roy take the heat for this mess. Until he has to start answering some heated questions from people in power nothing will change. I can only hope that our senators and representatives have the willingness to challenge his data collection relating to numbers of fish that NOAA believes exists and also the number of fisherman that actually fish for snapper. Until his numbers are proven wrong, nothing will change. I think Rep. Southerland is up to the task, but I am ashamed to say our Reps.from Alabama might not be.


----------



## Orangebeach28

I vote for non-compliance on both the state level and in my boat. The hell with the Feds.


----------



## Floppy

I'm thinking of being in 'non-compliance' regardless of laws. So tired of people telling me what I can, when I can, and how i can. They ride around in boats, planes, etc, our fuel dollars at work only for 'them' to sell us more regulations. Just tired of the obversight. Most fisherman, and I hope I am right when I say that, are conservative harvesters. I think we know ourselves when a spot is overfished and...we move on. Who is behaind all this shit anyway?


----------



## Orangebeach28

We can post on here all day. Nothing is going to change. I think we've just about reached a point where folks will just keep what they can hide, Roy be damned.


----------



## Southern Charters LLC

This link explains it all.


----------



## Telum Pisces

If a stock is in bad shape, end commercial fishing of that fish. Until they do that, I will never believe a word they say regarding a fish being over harvested and the population being overfished.


----------



## SaltAddict

Telum Pisces said:


> If a stock is in bad shape, end commercial fishing of that fish. Until they do that, I will never believe a word they say regarding a fish being over harvested and the population being overfished.


I will stand right beside you, disbelieving every lie they toss our way.


----------



## Mark Collins

Telum Pisces said:


> If a stock is in bad shape, *end commercial fishing of that fish*. Until they do that, I will never believe a word they say regarding a fish being over harvested and the population being overfished.


:thumbup: This is what they have done every time on fresh water and salt water fish, until now


----------



## The LaJess II

When we can no longer fish who's going to make up the difference in revenue? One guess. Waiting for the updated report.

Governor Scott it's time to speak up. How long are you going to ignore this?

http://www.myfwc.com/conservation/value/saltwater-fishing/


----------



## Chet88

Telum Pisces said:


> If a stock is in bad shape, end commercial fishing of that fish. Until they do that, I will never believe a word they say regarding a fish being over harvested and the population being overfished.


^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

This is all we need to know. It's is about $ and not the fishery. Until they stop commercial harvest of this so called "overfished" fishery it is all BS.


----------



## Chet88

The LaJess II said:


> When we can no longer fish who's going to make up the difference in revenue? One guess. Waiting for the updated report.
> 
> Governor Scott it's time to speak up. How long are you going to ignore this?
> 
> http://www.myfwc.com/conservation/value/saltwater-fishing/


Hey who do you think you are bringing logic and real facts into this debate? After all this is the Red Snapper fishery we are talking about. No facts are allowed.:whistling:


----------



## Strictly Bizness

Yes for non compliance. Petition signed.


----------



## reel-crazzzy

I support non compliance and signed the petition :thumbsup:


----------



## Trophy05

I support non compliance and signed.


----------



## The LaJess II

Chet88 said:


> Hey who do you think you are bringing logic and real facts into this debate? After all this is the Red Snapper fishery we are talking about. No facts are allowed.:whistling:


LOL!!! 

There is a saying don't mess with a scorned woman. I'm very scorned and I have set time a side to fight this battle. I own my own business and will fight this battle to the end giving up hours out of my business to fight this. I'm going to go down kicking and screaming if it takes it's. I've got a fax machines screaming right now to all of our legislators. They can't ignore those. They run out of paper and then want to know who the hell it is that wants to get their point across. There aids are not smart enough to know how to reload the fax paper tray.


----------



## Nat-Light

I support non-compliance. Petition signed.


----------



## sniperpeeps

Everyone who signed the petition needs to write your congressman....the more emails we can flood them with the better.

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/


----------



## Florabama

Realtor said:


> Not sure, Do you have the local elected officials (NWFL) support? if not, then I think your beating a silent drum... Your trying to do this "Non-Compliant" thing and in order to do so, I would think the local (and state) officials would have to support it. FWC is a state agency, they enforce what the state rules and regulations are.... I mean, really soon the 2013 snapper season will be announced. I just think this is a little too late, your trying to get this enacted for this season, right?
> 
> I’ll be the first to admit, I am not “completely” knowledgeable about all this, however, just a few non funded fishermen going against the BIG money special interest groups is a waste of effort. Especially (from what I see) is trying to squeeze something under the radar. That’s my 2 cents.
> 
> I (we) have seen these online petitions, threads, discussions in the past. They all lead to the same place. In order to accomplish something like this it takes time, planning and mostly MONEY. I am sure the other States have been working with their state leadership for some time on this issue? Has Florida Fishermen been organized? Did I miss the boat?
> 
> Not busting this, but just being realistic. If I missed the boat, tell me and I’ll go away from this issue.


Initially Florida was non-compliant, so this is not a step that hasn't been taken before. I was one of many who were involved with Paul Redman and the RFRA years ago when snapper was first being restricted when the season was still April to October. We went to meetings all over the Panhandle and were assured that further restrictions would not follow if Florida became compliant with Federal regs, but as soon as that happened, Crabtree and his ilk began reducing bag limits and season length further until now we have nothing. I finally gave up and got out of the fight. There were not enough people like Chris, Matt and Paul and a few others like myself who saw where this was headed and were willing spend their own time and money to change it. Now, it seems that we have finally gotten to the point where enough people are seeing where this is headed and are willing to take a stand, and that's what it takes to change it. 

I am 100% for non-compliance.


----------



## FOODDUDE

Yes on non compliance and signed petition


----------



## The LaJess II

Wanted to bump back up for some folks not familiar with the PFF to read.


----------



## MaxP

For those of us living in Alabama, who would be the best/most sympathetic AL state officials to contact?


----------



## DI 310

I sent letter to Jeff Sessions. He in turn sent it to the comment section on the Gulf Council web page. At the same time I sent letter to Joe Bonner. He never responded in any fashion. As far as I can tell we have nobody even remotely close to Rep.Southerland to speak for us as he does for the Florida anglers.


----------



## The LaJess II

Matt or Chris will you check with one of the moderators to see if you can pin this to the top of the page. I'm sending people here to read this that is not familiar with the forum and they say they can not find this thread. Thanks.


----------



## aroundthehorn

markw4321 said:


> Our chum Emily...


markw, does she still post here?


----------



## aroundthehorn

I think it's worth trying (non-compliance). On another note: I find snapper fishing during the weekend season unbearable because of all the crowds.


----------



## The LaJess II

aroundthehorn said:


> markw, does she still post here?


She does it's under Offshore Q & A 

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f33/red-snapper-quota-bag-limit-regional-management-141178/


----------



## markw4321

Mod please delete


----------



## The LaJess II

Thank you for putting under the sticky. LOL!!! Saves me a lot of time explaining.:thumbup:


----------



## aroundthehorn

markw4321 said:


> She does still on occasion post.
> 
> Last thread I am aware of is here: http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f33/red-snapper-quota-bag-limit-regional-management-141178/


Her responses in that thread make me think of the following Jimmy Buffett lyrics:

If we couldn't laugh/we would all go insane.

I have to say, though, that I admire her tenacity.


----------



## markw4321

Mod please delete


----------



## aroundthehorn

Thanks, Mark, hope that you are well.


----------



## Fleisch

Definitely YES


----------



## The LaJess II

Hey guys I don't know why you are carrying on a conversation on this thread but when you realize what you are doing can you please ask a mod to delete so as not to derail thread. Thanks Guys.


----------



## nextstep

how about








*Red Snapper Season 2013* 
Do you support the FWC going non-compliant with red snapper regs? Online Petition

As many of you may know we are looking at an even shorter red snapper season for 2013. If Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi all stay compliant with the federal season we will get approximately 27 days, Texas has been non-compliant for several years now. The state of LA has already made it clear that they are not going to be compliant and are working through a few steps before their 7 month season will be official, so that would cut the 27 days down dramatically because of the way the total allowable catch (TAC) works.

Here’s a little background on how red snapper fishing is managed in the Gulf of Mexico. Each state has a section of water that is referred to as “state waters” which is the water within so many miles of that particular states coast. The state of Florida has 9 miles, Alabama 3, Mississippi 3, Louisiana 3 going to 10.3, and Texas 9. The fishery regulations in state waters are managed by that states Organization, for the state of Florida it’s the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The federal waters are managed by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and in our current situation by one man Dr. Roy Crabtree.

Another group involved is the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council. The Gulf Council is made up of people from all five states that make recommendations of the NMFS. Although it doesn’t seem like their opinion has mattered very much over the years when it comes to red snapper management.

The NMFS follows the rules of the Magnuson Stevens Act, but without going into pages of detail they are using bad science. There numbers are wrong and they know it, but Dr. Crabtree uses the excuse he has no option but to follow the law using the science and numbers he’s provided.

There are several reasons why the State of Florida has stayed compliant in the past. One of those reasons is funding from the federal government could be reduced or cut because Florida isn’t playing by the rules, but if Louisiana and Texas can handle it why can’t Florida. 

The biggest reason they have stayed compliant is likely because of the opposition of the charter boat sector and captains from Destin to Port St. Joe show up for meetings. Under the current rules if a charter boat holds a federal reef fish permit they are not allowed to fish in state waters for species that are closed in federal waters. That being said if red snapper is open in state waters and not federal waters boats that hold and wish to continue to hold their federal permit would not be allowed to fish for red snapper in state waters. This is another example of the government trying to force the states to stay compliant because they know charter boat operators will oppose non-compliance.

Right now we have a bigger opportunity than ever before to make substantial changes to the way red snapper are managed, but the only possible way for this to happen is to get the FWC to go non-compliant with the federal season. I have been going to fishery meetings for over 10 years and I strongly feel this is the best chance we have ever had! Louisiana has opened the door for us and we must get the FWC to take the same route.

What you must know is that Florida being non-compliant will most likely mean 0 days of federal waters red snapper season for recreational anglers and put charter boat operators in a horrible situation, but this will tear down the house of cards and force the NMFS to rethink their way of regulating. It has even been rumored that Dr. Crabtree would punish the states and place closures on other species in federal waters. 

Dr. Bob Shipp who sets on the Gulf Council is one of the most accredited and respected fishery scientists along the northern Gulf is in support of the states going non-compliant and breaking the system. Locally we have the support of Robert Turpin and in turn our local government to make a recommendation to the FWC Commissioners to go non-compliant.

Our boat “Hot Spots” holds a federal reef permit and this will have an effect on us as with any other charter, but do the few days of red snapper fishing we’re going to get June really help? The answer is NO, that is everyone’s busiest time of the year and people will want to go fishing during that time whether red snapper is open or not. Now on the other hand a red snapper season in the spring or fall sure would be good for business.

In order for the FWC to go non-compliant it will need to be an overwhelming amount of one sided support. I feel if it’s 50/50 that they will stay compliant with the federal regulations.

Feel free to discuss the current status of red snapper on this thread, but even if you don’t want to discuss would you please comment either “Yes” or “No” on whether you support non-compliance or not.

Feel free to contact me if you would like to further discuss…

Online Petition

Captain Matt McLeod
(850) 418-5333


----------



## Burnt Drag

I can tell you one thing. If Florida goes non-complient, the commercial sector will send each of you a dozen roses. They will have virtually NO competition for RS in Federal waters. Another thing, there are lots of snapper in state waters, but if Federal waters are closed, and only state is open, you'll see about 30-40 good days of fishing, and the snapper will begin to become more scarce. I saw it happen in 1999 and 2000 (I think) We rejoiced that the Federal waters opened on June 1st because we'd just about killed the snaps in State waters. Also, If we did go non-compliant, don't get caught in Federal waters with a snapper if it's closed. Big fines.


----------



## nextstep

by the time LaJess gets done commercial wont be able to keep red snapper. Go yall!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Burnt Drag

Matt, I respect your optimism, but remember who has the ear of NMFS, none other than Senator "Quitter" Trent Lott. My family supported Trent for years... if they'd only known their son would one day be at odds with the hack.


----------



## billin

*Florida*

I commend all of your efforts even if they are in vein there is no way the FWC will allow it to happen they simply can't afford it there is a reason marine patrol folded into the FWC they where broke then and it's even worse now


----------



## nextstep

when floridaians stop buying boats 

when tourist stop coming and

getting hotel rooms

and eating out

and buying souvenirs

when people stop buying fishing license

and going to bait stores...

thats what the state cant afford:no:

http://www.nssf.org/PDF/research/bright%20stars%20of%20the%20economy.pdf


Online Petition


----------



## The LaJess II

nextstep said:


> when floridaians stop buying boats
> 
> when tourist stop coming and
> 
> getting hotel rooms
> 
> and eating out
> 
> and buying souvenirs
> 
> when people stop buying fishing license
> 
> and going to bait stores...
> 
> thats what the state cant afford:no:
> 
> http://www.nssf.org/PDF/research/bright stars of the economy.pdf
> 
> 
> Online Petition


x1 I feel like they are leaning more to the economic side now. They started this past summer sending out notices for a monthly survey. Been filling them out once a month when they send to me. Questions are generated more to how much I spend than toward fish accountability.

nextstep, previous statement above I can only wish I had that much control over the fisheries. LOL!!!


----------



## Thrillbillies

I am going to say NO however my opinion could be change. After reading all 17 pages I wished I would have followed sooner.
A lot of what has been said I agree with however I would have a few questions and concerns. First it you went non complaint I think the nine miles of state water would get raped and hurt the fishery, living in Alabama we only have three miles our state waters would not reach out to the worlds largest artificial reefs. Second if you increased your season you would see a lot more out of state folks coming just to rape your resources, does that not scare you? I reminder 20 years ago fishing before the season would open catching and releasing a lot of big snapper only to go back right after the commercial season would end and set on the same reef and not get a bite. I feel the commercial fisherman has way to many liberties that also would need to be addressed before I could vote yes. In Alabama we have a ton of fish now on the reefs however not much natural structure, like deer on a food plot if you killed them all is their enough to keep the population up to sustain them in the future? I also said twenty years ago when they where reducing our limits down that it was the faults of some of the charter fisherman. That would let the client catch their limits then would add the captains and the crews too. Their could have been some self policing in the past that would have helped.
So for me to vote yes I would just need to be assured that the state waters could recover from the over fishing and what would it do to the neiboring states (Alabama and Mississippi ) which only has 3 miles? 
Other question why are Orange beach captains in favor of Florida non- compliance ? 
The short season does bother me i know last year I was out on days a small boat should not have been that is going to cause someone to get hurt or dead. I saw some of the charter captains sway they did not need the help in July move to fall so I don't sweat my jewels off, and make it easier for the smaller boats
Last statement because I feel I have been educated a little more after reading this and grant you I care and follow this stuff as a sportsman here a bunch of people saying they are going non complaint on their on. Certainly will lose my support along with a lot of other people. Poachers may be one of the other reasons we have a short season.


----------



## Tyler Massey

Like we have all said before on this post, this action is not a short teen fix! This season, the next season maybe the one after that could really suck. The point is that something needs to change, and the only way for that to happen is to break down the governments management system. The reason for doing this isn't so we can fish all year long it's to make things have to change. 

Another thing, if you really believe that a state water only season would seriously effect the snapper population then you must be delusional.. Do you think there is a brick wall on the federal water line that doesn't allow snapper and other fish to cross??? You think a spot never has new fish move in from somewhere else?? Sounds like you are definately buying what the government has been saying for years..


----------



## John B.

Tyler Massey said:


> Another thing, if you really believe that a state water only season would seriously effect the snapper population then you must be delusional.. Do you think there is a brick wall on the federal water line that doesn't allow snapper and other fish to cross??? You think a spot never has new fish move in from somewhere else?? Sounds like you are definately buying what the government has been saying for years..


X2

When cobia fads have snapper on them after being down a month, in $50' of water, there are plenty of snapper in state waters.

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


----------



## Thrillbillies

Not delusional at all and not getting in to name calling going to try to see all sides. No their not a wall and yes more fish will move in and yes they will be caught also. We do have a Lott of snapper more than anytime in my life. However I remember when it was over fished and never want to see that again. I do not trust the Feds in governing and it's beem proven most men can't govern them selves. So know mater how many fish our out their we do need to a kowagle it can be over fished again


----------



## The LaJess II

Thrillbillies said:


> Not delusional at all and not getting in to name calling going to try to see all sides. No their not a wall and yes more fish will move in and yes they will be caught also. We do have a Lott of snapper more than anytime in my life. However I remember when it was over fished and never want to see that again. I do not trust the Feds in governing and it's beem proven most men can't govern them selves. So know mater how many fish our out their we do need to a kowagle it can be over fished again


If you look at the regulations it’s not even worth putting your boat in the water. The Feds have regulated us to death. The Snapper are eating everything else up in the Gulf. If the Feds can’t manage the fisheries correctly we at least need to manage our 9 miles. With the correct management we can have a good productive fishery here. Texas has no problem managing theirs and they fish all year long with a limit of 4 fish per person. Not only that our economy here in Florida is fixing to loose a hell of a lot of revenue if we don’t fix this now. We are probably going to see only 14 days of Snapper season and 1 fish per 2 anglers. I will be surprised if we get 1 fish per person.


----------



## Lyin Too

When does Roy hand down the verdict and tell us when and how many we can catch?


----------



## Burnt Drag

Lyin Too said:


> When does Roy hand down the verdict and tell us when and how many we can catch?


He comes down from his castle in a few weeks... maybe a few months. Predictions are 1 snapper per boat for 3 days. (If we're lucky)


----------



## Lyin Too

How many boats does FWC have in Pensacola? Looks like they may be busy.


----------



## vietvet

Way back in the day (early 80's), when I commercially fished, RS were scarce.....(at least on my boat).....today I can go to Pensacola Bay and catch 7-10 pounders within a west wind smellshot of the shrimp fryin at the Fish House....I support non-compliance although I mainly "catch/release".....which Flipper really enjoys.


----------



## bigrick

Non-compliance all the way. I can only take so much before I get in a f*ck em kinda mood. Well I'm there now. 6 months at 4 per person all the way to 27 days and 1 fish in a few short years. Sad stuff. There's more of us then there are of them so somethings gotta happen. When ya'll are ready to start f-in stuff up I'll be first in line.


----------



## Matt Mcleod

A big thanks to EVERYONE who has responded to this thread whether it be "for" or "against" Florida's compliance with the NMFS!

I have not posted much on this thread beside the original post but I haven't gone anywhere! The point of this thread is to gauge public opinion about the matter and have a conversation about the "pros" and "cons" of going in this direction.

The goal of this plan is to begin a movement that makes BIG changes to the way the NMFS works and how our federal fisheries are managed. I KNOW that sounds like the same overly optimistic talk we've heard for years, but this time IS different! I truly believe we have the biggest opportunity we've ever had. 

The key to this is very simple.... If the rest of the gulf states go non-compliant (Florida is now the most important because of it's size), the NMFS total allowable catch (TAC) of red snapper for the gulf of mexico will be grossly exceeded giving the NMFS a BIG problem! 

Their "Gulf of Mexico red snapper management plan" will be destroyed and the only way they can correct it is with our help! We demand a change in the laws and process of how our fisheries are managed!

We have nothing to lose, they've taken it all.....lets get it back!

If you support this plan please sign the petition, a link is in the first post. I am VERY proud to say we have recreational, charter and commercial fishermen who have already signed the petition! We are standing up but MOST importantly standing TOGETHER!!!


----------



## nextstep

Online Petition


----------



## Matt Mcleod

nextstep said:


> Online Petition


Thank You!!


----------



## nextstep

yw


----------



## nextstep

just got my brother to sign the Online Petition


----------



## catfever24

signed


----------



## Deedubbya

Just recently moved to Alabama gulf coast, with thoughts of frequent fishing. I had no idea what was and is going on with the gulf fishery, but for the past couple of months have been reading everything I can find about the stock assessments, catch limits, etc. First, let me say, that I am a big fan of state's rights; have personally never seen anything undertaken by the feds that they couldn't screw up in a couple of years. That said, I do have one question. Being naturally suspicious of the feds motives, and given the Vision 2020 statement about the value of certain species being to great to catch only once, is it possible that through non-compliance we would be assisting the NMFS to reach their goal of catch and release only by shutting down the gulf ARS season altogether?


----------



## aroundthehorn

Deedubbya said:


> Just recently moved to Alabama gulf coast, with thoughts of frequent fishing. I had no idea what was and is going on with the gulf fishery, but for the past couple of months have been reading everything I can find about the stock assessments, catch limits, etc. First, let me say, that I am a big fan of state's rights; have personally never seen anything undertaken by the feds that they couldn't screw up in a couple of years. That said, I do have one question. Being naturally suspicious of the feds motives, and given the Vision 2020 statement about the value of certain species being to great to catch only once, is it possible that through non-compliance we would be assisting the NMFS to reach their goal of catch and release only by shutting down the gulf ARS season altogether?


Yes, that is a distinct possibility.

Having said that, nobody really knows what will happen. They are definitely abundant, though. The Gulf Coast from Destin to Alabama has thousands of artificial reefs. It is hard not to catch snapper.


----------



## nextstep

at this point what do we have to lose?


----------



## esenjam

I vote yes, and I signed.


----------



## Burnt Drag

Signed.... by another federal reef permit holder.


----------



## grease monkey

Signed!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## d-a

I vote yes, but has anyone questioned why the feds are counting "state Property" as there own? 

d-a


----------



## realstreet

Petition signed. *YES*


----------



## Bryson13

Yes - Petition signed


----------



## Last Drop

Signed! Thanks Matt


----------



## sniperpeeps

Matt any developments on this since the petition was started?


----------



## Matt Mcleod

sniperpeeps said:


> Matt any developments on this since the petition was started?


We are still working to build support for Florida's non-compliance with the NMFS red snapper season!

I had the opportunity to meet and speak with Rep. Jeff Miller a few days ago. It was a casual setting (deer hunting) but like with most groups that love the outdoors fishing came up in conversation. He is a good guy, very pleasant to be around and an avid sportsman! 

This movement continues to gain support from recreational, charter and commercial fisherman!

There are seven FWC commissioners that are appointed by the governor every five years. We need to persuade four of them to vote for non-compliance! Please send emails to these commissioners or to the governer's office and let them know how you feel. 

When I was talking to Rep. Miller I asked him what my chances were of being able to have quality contact with these commissioners? Would they listen or would I be ignored? His answer was "they should listen, it's there job". A refreshening and encouraging answer from one of OUR politicians!


----------



## catdad100

*Fwc commissioners*

Last time I emailed the fwc it was concerning the grouper season issue and I did at least get a response so do you have an email list of all seven commissioners? If so post it here to make it easy for us lazy folks and we can start the bombardment!


----------



## Renegade

http://myfwc.com/about/commission/commissioners/


----------



## ronjon40

Matt Mcleod said:


> We are still working to build support for Florida's non-compliance with the NMFS red snapper season!
> 
> I had the opportunity to meet and speak with Rep. Jeff Miller a few days ago. It was a casual setting (deer hunting) but like with most groups that love the outdoors fishing came up in conversation. He is a good guy, very pleasant to be around and an avid sportsman!
> 
> This movement continues to gain support from recreational, charter and commercial fisherman!
> 
> There are seven FWC commissioners that are appointed by the governor every five years. We need to persuade four of them to vote for non-compliance! Please send emails to these commissioners or to the governer's office and let them know how you feel.
> 
> When I was talking to Rep. Miller I asked him what my chances were of being able to have quality contact with these commissioners? Would they listen or would I be ignored? His answer was "they should listen, it's there job". A refreshening and encouraging answer from one of OUR politicians!


Matt, that is some hopeful news and keep up the good fight guy. I will definitely draft up a few letters and emails of my own. Thanks for sharing that information. I wish there were more that would share the info they receive.


----------



## Fishchaser

Yes, for non-compliance.


----------



## Jack Hexter

I listened in on the webinar today and learned they are now considering a 1 fish limit with a 30 day season.







Also heard a lot of comment about Sector Separation







I thought congress told the Council and NMFS to stuff Catch Shares where the sun don't shine and Sector Separation is nothing more than alternate verbiage for catch shares.


----------



## markw4321

Jack Hexter said:


> I listened in on the webinar today and learned they are now considering a 1 fish limit with a 30 day season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also heard a lot of comment about Sector Separation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought congress told the Council and NMFS to stuff Catch Shares where the sun don't shine and Sector Separation is nothing more than alternate verbiage for catch shares.


Jack,

To my knowledge circa 2010 Congress "defunded" NOAA catch share programs which only resulted in NOAA leadership (Dr. Lubchenco) seeking and gaining funding from non-governmental agencies (environmental) to continue their march toward catch shares. Unfortunately for private boat owning fisherman Catch share plans aimed at the Gulf recreational fishery and their advocates remain alive and well today in various forms and under many different names.
All the best
Mark


----------



## nextstep

Online Petition :thumbup:

http://blog.al.com/live/2013/02/gulf...l#incart_river


----------



## Jack Hexter

Yesterday, (2/8/13) the GMFMC set the limit at 2 fish per person with a 27 day season starting June 1. My guess is that according to their numbers, we will over fish that too


----------



## LES KNIGHTEN

Mikvi said:


> OK, It seems evident people on the forum want to go non-complient. How about we start doing something about it. Lets get a group together of about six and come up with a plan to make sure the FWC know the majority of recreational fisherman support non-complience. We will have to be able to discuss pros and cons with them, get legislaters on our side, get petitions signed and publicize it. Channel 3 is not our friend. I saw thier take on the proposed regs the other day and they only showed interviews with people who thought more regulation would be good. I'm willing to help, but we need more people who are willing to put some time in this. The only way we are going to protect our righjt to fish is to be heard. Suggestions and volunteers are appreciated.


 
Any takers on filing a civil action against crabtree


----------



## The LaJess II

LES KNIGHTEN said:


> Any takers on filing a civil action against crabtree


Les, if you will start another thread in general discussion and lay out the plan and to how a suit would work. At this point I think you could get some takers here to.


----------



## TOBO

What do have in mind? I think there would be more than a few willing participants. Lay it out and lets see what you are thinking.


----------



## LES KNIGHTEN

*any takers*

I submitted a comment on January 29, I put GC on notice they I was going to file a civil action against them. I am considering a separate suit against Crabtree personally. If you can find my comment, it will give you an idea of the substance, it's hard to find. I was informed that it had to be filed by 5pm on the 29, some spelling errors and typo. I had rather file something that nothing, it can always be corrected. If you are unable to find it, send me you e-mail address and I will send you a copy. Would like some input on it. I am going to need some help with this.


----------



## Candy

I am going to request that the 44 day season be 4 days per week (Friday-Monday) to spread the season to 10 weeks throughout the summer months. June 1 - August 17th. 

This will give the working man/woman more than an 8 day season. Also, if there is some bad weather, we will still have a season. 

I will send my letter to [email protected] 

I also think I'll travel to Tallahassee in April for the meeting.


----------



## Fishchaser

Candy said:


> I am going to request that the 44 day season be 4 days per week (Friday-Monday) to spread the season to 10 weeks throughout the summer months. June 1 - August 17th.
> 
> This will give the working man/woman more than an 8 day season. Also, if there is some bad weather, we will still have a season.
> 
> I will send my letter to [email protected]
> 
> I also think I'll travel to Tallahassee in Api think ril for the meeting.


I think I would rather have the 44 days all together as propsed. Weekend only fishing would more than likely stack up 20 boats on every reef at one time. Thankfully, I get some anuual leave I plan to burn during that time.


----------



## Telum Pisces

Wirelessly posted



Fishchaser said:


> Candy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to request that the 44 day season be 4 days per week (Friday-Monday) to spread the season to 10 weeks throughout the summer months. June 1 - August 17th.
> 
> This will give the working man/woman more than an 8 day season. Also, if there is some bad weather, we will still have a season.
> 
> I will send my letter to [email protected]
> 
> I also think I'll travel to Tallahassee in Api think ril for the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I would rather have the 44 days all together as propsed. Weekend only fishing would more than likely stack up 20 boats on every reef at one time. Thankfully, I get some anuual leave I plan to burn during that time.
Click to expand...

Still gives you Friday and Monday when most are working. I like the four day a week season idea.


----------



## LES KNIGHTEN

markw4321 said:


> Jack,
> 
> To my knowledge circa 2010 Congress "defunded" NOAA catch share programs which only resulted in NOAA leadership (Dr. Lubchenco) seeking and gaining funding from non-governmental agencies (environmental) to continue their march toward catch shares. Unfortunately for private boat owning fisherman Catch share plans aimed at the Gulf recreational fishery and their advocates remain alive and well today in various forms and under many different names.
> All the best
> Mark


Mark:
Do you have any proof that Congress "defunded" NOAA catch share programs which only resulted in NOAA leadership (Dr. Lubchenco) seeking and gaining funding from non-governmental agencies.  In my opinion we have several remedies at law to deal with NOAA ect. both civil and criminal in nature We must share information and have proof of our claims. If we don't have proof that can possibly be used in Federal Court, we will get a good spanking. I'm not an attorney, I can't afford an attorney. It no more than another legal challenge for me in Federal Court been there and done that. Thanks, Les


----------



## markw4321

Les,

unfortunately looks like the amendment passed in the House. but according to below article died in the Senate.

http://fishery.about.com/b/2011/11/28/jones-amendment-dies-in-senate.htm

*Jones Amendment Dies In Senate*

By Michael Souza, About.com GuideNovember 28, 2011

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After 6 months of controversy and debate, 2-weeks ago, in November 2011, members of a U.S. Senate committee have blocked future consideration to the Jones Amendment. The amendment was designed to halt the proliferation of catch shares.

Earlier it appeared the legislation was doing well in the House. Now, that may be all for naught. The amendment was not added to an appropriations bill for Commerce, Justice and Science. If added, it would have stopped the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) funding for expanding its catch share management policy.

The Jones amendment passed the House by 10 votes last January, and the Senate watered it down a bit, but the funding ban stretched from the Atlantic and Gulf coasts. The New England groundfishery began operating under the catch share system in May 2010.

Catch shares and NOAA's policy are blamed by many fishermen for forcing fishing industry consolidation and the near-extinction of the small, independent fisherman. The policy is the work of the Obama administration and NOAA administrator Jane Lubchenco. It introduced without notice and without congressional consent.


----------



## Harbison

The voice of the people:
I fish the Florida Middle Grounds. The Grounds is covered with red snapper. I have really been looking forward to ARS season. With Florida going non-compliant, Mississippi & Alabama will probably follow. This would mean all five gulf states have shown NO confidence in NOAA's Gulf Council, and are ready to do something about it. Even if a defiant Crabtree does close federal waters to red snapper fishing, it's a move that had to be done. With a shorter & shorter ARS season each year it's just a matter of time until we would have NO season anyway. The 28 day 2013 season is a slap in the face to the saltwater fishing community. If our sport is to continue, NOAA's grip must be broken. Florida has taken a very bold step towards breaking the strangle hole NOAA holds over every costal state. Let the Northern Counties have their ARS. We have our grouper. 
'The voice of the people' has been & will continue to be heard. 
To prosper, both fish & fisherman must have, and abide by, very strict regulations. However, we the people must demand that these regulations be based on modern up-to-date data, data from real on the water science, not data manipulated to show the need for shares/separation. 
If NOAA, Crabtree, the Gulf Council refuse to become part of the solution, rather than part of the problem, they can and must be replaced. 'The voice of the people' has been and will continue to be heard. Bob Harbison


----------



## LES KNIGHTEN

The LaJess II said:


> Les, if you will start another thread in general discussion and lay out the plan and to how a suit would work. At this point I think you could get some takers here to.


Never started a thread, however I am working on one now. Thanks, Les


----------



## Hibauchery

*Yes!!*

Yes to non-compliance for all of the Gulf states, it's time for us to make a stand for our recreational fishing rights! :thumbsup:


----------



## Harbison

Only in NOAA land:
Crabtree has said that if Florida goes noncompliant he will close down the Gulf of Mexico. What have we really got to loose. He has all but closed it down anyway. The healthier the species, the fewer days we are allowed to fish, only in NOAA land. It must be remembered that a healthy fishery does not prove the need for shares/separation. As a result, NOAA can 'prove' that both ARS & gag grouper are in such bad shape that catch shares, better known as paid fishing, and sector separation, divide & conquer, are the only solutions. Only in NOAA land! Bob H.


----------



## aroundthehorn

Harbison said:


> Only in NOAA land:
> Crabtree has said that if Florida goes noncompliant he will close down the Gulf of Mexico. What have we really got to loose. He has all but closed it down anyway. The healthier the species, the fewer days we are allowed to fish, only in NOAA land. It must be remembered that a healthy fishery does not prove the need for shares/separation. As a result, NOAA can 'prove' that both ARS & gag grouper are in such bad shape that catch shares, better known as paid fishing, and sector separation, divide & conquer, are the only solutions. Only in NOAA land! Bob H.


Can you post a credible link (or a link at all)?


----------



## Harbison

I just did!


----------



## aroundthehorn

Harbison said:


> I just did!


Please reread my post. Then reply in kind. Thanks.

I said credible link, I believe?


----------



## Harbison

If I said it you can take it to the bank!


----------



## aroundthehorn

Harbison said:


> If I said it you can take it to the bank!


No offense, but that isn't going to happen.


----------



## Harbison

Some on here need to forget the SOS, EDF, and Pew propaganda and open their eyes. For those interested in staying on the water...it had better 'HAPPEN"!


----------



## aroundthehorn

Harbison said:


> Some on here need to forget the SOS, EDF, and Pew propaganda and open their eyes. For those interested in staying on the water...it had better 'HAPPEN"!


So, you have Dr. Roy Crabtree on record saying what you posted that he said? Can you please provide a link or a recording? If you don't, then please stop wasting your time and my time.


----------



## Tom Hilton

I think Crabtree said that if Louisiana went non-compliant, then the whole Gulf season would be reduced from 27 days to about 13...that was before the GC granted him more power, to shut down the federal EEZ season offshore of "non-compliant" states.

It is unclear what the federal EEZ will be based on what we know today. If Florida follows thru with its 44 day season, and Louisiana follows thru with its 90 day season, then all bets are off. It is VERY likely that the whole Gulf federal red snapper season will be 0 days this year due to many of the Gulf states acting in revolt to King Roy's oppression.

Capt., Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Harbison

Captain Buddy Bradham, (Mother Ocean Charters) attended the last Gulf Council meeting. Here is part of his report:
"I thought I would let you know what was discussed at the meeting that you may or may not have heard". (Concerning ARS)
(1) We will have a 2 fish limit this year
(2) We will have a 27 day season which may have a few days added after the new stock 
assessment is given to the council in April. These days would be given to us sometime after the middle of July.
(3) ARS season will open June 1
(4) *An emergency rule was put in place that gives Crabtree the power to close federal waters off any state that does not go consistent with federal rule. *
Captain Buddy noted that Alabama & Mississippi said that they too would probably go noncompliant if Florida did. This would mean that all five gulf states have proven that they have NO confidence in NOAA or NOAA's gulf council. 
We will know more when the Council & FWC meet in April. Regardless, the strangle hole NOAA has over our, yes *OUR,* fishery must be broken. Left up to Crabtree we will soon have no season at all. All five gulf states are reporting record numbers of American red snapper, yet the seasons are getting shorter & shorter. This must STOP! Bob H.


----------



## nextstep

amen

it is time for real mangement of our precious resource


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

Alabama and Mississippi are not going and until the April meeting is voted on in Florida, i'm not sold that Florida is. Just a power struggle chess match right now.


----------



## Harbison

It will not be until the meeting in April that we know for sure what will happen. Both Alabama & Mississippi made it very clear during the last meting that they are strongly considering going non compliant. Florida's FWC has indicated that Florida will go noncompliant with a 44 day season in state waters. We, in Central Florida, have absolutely NO American red snapper in our state waters. Non-the-less, even if we have NO season this year, NOAA law and king crabtree must be put in their place!


----------



## MrFish

Harbison said:


> It will not be until the meeting in April that we know for sure what will happen. Both Alabama & Mississippi made it very clear during the last meting that they are strongly considering going non compliant. Florida's FWC has indicated that Florida will go noncompliant with a 55 day season in state waters. We, in Central Florida, have absolutely NO American red snapper in our state waters. Non-the-less, even if we have NO season this year, NOAA law and king crabtree must be put in their place!


No offense, but FL is looking at 44 days and Chris Blankenship with AL Marine Resources says we are staying compliant. At least for now.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

I have talked to Chris a bunch of times on this issue and the State of Alabama is staying complaint. With the emergency rule in place theres a good chance that Alabama will keep our 27 days and the non-complaint states will be the ones that suffer a very short or no federal season.


----------



## Harbison

Thank you sir. I changed 55 to 44.
Florida believes 27 days is ridiculous and is ready to do something about it. We, all five gulf states, have bowed to the wishes of 'king roy' long enough.


----------



## aroundthehorn

Harbison said:


> Captain Buddy Bradham, (Mother Ocean Charters) attended the last Gulf Council meeting. Here is part of his report:
> (4) *An emergency rule was put in place that gives Crabtree the power to close federal waters off any state that does not go consistent with federal rule. *
> 
> Regardless, the strangle hole NOAA has over our, yes *OUR,* fishery must be broken. Left up to Crabtree we will soon have no season at all. All five gulf states are reporting record numbers of American red snapper, yet the seasons are getting shorter & shorter. This must STOP! Bob H.


If I am not mistaken, that is not what you said earlier. Didn't you post that Roy Crabtree was on record as saying that he would shut the fishery down if he did not like what was going on? 

Also, I asked for some sort of official quotation (something that can be verified, anyway) and not something that is third-hand from a charter captain whom I've never heard of.

I'm deliberately playing bad cop here. Put some real info on here.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

Harbison said:


> It will not be until the meeting in April that we know for sure what will happen. Both Alabama & Mississippi made it very clear during the last meting that they are strongly considering going non compliant. Florida's FWC has indicated that Florida will go noncompliant with a 44 day season in state waters. We, in Central Florida, have absolutely NO American red snapper in our state waters. Non-the-less, even if we have NO season this year, NOAA law and king crabtree must be put in their place!



Really? Florida going non-complaint for an extra 17 days of fishing is going to stick it to the man? The federal government could care less if Florida "never" has a Federal red snapper season, its not going to change a [email protected] thing. What its going to do in Florida is keep anyone on the west coast all the way to mexico beach from catching any ARS, its going to make criminals out of honest people when the little 9 mile box gets depleted and people start jumping across the Federal line, and its going to Screw any Charter Boat with a Federal permit "30b". For an extra 17 days for people that own there on boat from Mexico beach to pensacola. Yea that makes plenty of sense.


----------



## SaltAddict

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Really? Florida going non-complaint for an extra 17 days of fishing is going to stick it to the man? The federal government could care less if Florida "never" has a Federal red snapper season, its not going to change a [email protected] thing. What its going to do in Florida is keep anyone on the west coast all the way to mexico beach from catching any ARS, its going to make criminals out of honest people when the little 9 mile box gets depleted and people start jumping across the Federal line, and its going to Screw any Charter Boat with a Federal permit "30b". For an extra 17 days for people that own there on boat from Mexico beach to pensacola. Yea that makes plenty of sense.


So, you believe that an "ever decreasing season" is not going to cause the same outcome??


----------



## sniperpeeps

I can promise you that the very next day after a 44 day red snapper season in Florida state waters it will still be easy to go catch big snapper within 9 miles. The idea that we are going to fish out or deplete the 9 mile state water area in 44 days is ridiculous.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

sniperpeeps said:


> I can promise you that the very next day after a 44 day red snapper season in Florida state waters it will still be easy to go catch big snapper within 9 miles. The idea that we are going to fish out or deplete the 9 mile state water area in 44 days is ridiculous.


Ok, your initialed to your opinion. I can remember just a few years back when Florida opened on the 15th, or when Federal was 2 per person and Florida was 4 per person, I can remember quite well exactly how long it took to deplete the "box" as we called it. It absolutely sucked pretty dang quick.

Now if Florida does not have a federal season or a very short one, and you put all the pressure in that little box for 44 days with the amount of small boats that fish now. 

Also take in that the New Florida Bridge rubble that Soooooo many small boats fish, yea thats in Federal waters.


----------



## Harbison

We in Florida are not alone:









LOUISIANA BUTTS HEADS OVER RED SNAPPER REGS 
At its February meeting, the *Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council* rejected a proposal by the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries that would provide harvest accountability and allow Louisiana's recreational fishermen to choose their own season dates for recreational red snapper. "It's obvious when looking at recreational landings of red snapper for the Gulf of Mexico," said head of Fisheries for Louisiana, LDWF Assistant Secretary *Randy Pausina*, "that the current federal system of controlling recreational harvest isn't working. For the past six years the recreational quota was exceeded five times. The only year the quota wasn't exceeded was in 2010, likely a direct result of massive fishery closures resulting from the BP oil spill. Overages ran from a low of 19 percent to a high of 89 percent in those six years and exceeded 7 million pounds of red snapper which is almost twice the current recreational quota."

"Our proposal for regional management would have allowed Louisiana to manage its recreational fishery by closing the red snapper season when our allocation of fish was harvested. In turn, the Gulf Council would allow Louisiana recreational fishermen through the Wildlife and Fisheries Commission process to set the red snapper season dates and daily bag limits," added Pausina.
*Here comes Crabtree:*
In related action, the Gulf Council gave the *Regional Director of NOAA* the authority to close federal waters (EEZ) beyond those states that are determined to be non-compliant with federal regulations. 
89 % overages...Only in NOAA land. Only with EDF, backed by Pew, data. King NOAA will manipulate data, as needed, to '_prove' _the need for shares/separation. Texas was the first to tell the feds what they can do with their so called 'scientific-data'. Then Louisiana & Florida. Regardless of what Mississippi & Alabama does, the majority of gulf states have shown a strong vote of NO CONFIDENCE in NOAA to manage our fisheries."
"It's obvious when looking at recreational landings of red snapper for the Gulf of Mexico," said head of Fisheries for Louisiana, LDWF Assistant Secretary *Randy Pausina*, "that the current federal system of controlling recreational harvest isn't working."
Florida agrees:



*Commission proposes 2013 Gulf recreational red snapper season in state waters*

*News Release*
Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Media contact: Amanda Nalley, 850-410-4943

(Back to Commission meeting news)
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) proposed a 44-day recreational red snapper season for Gulf of Mexico state waters at its meeting Feb. 13 in Orlando.
This season would start June 1 and end July 14. The proposed 2013 season is inconsistent with the current proposed federal season, which is currently expected to be about 27 days but may be shortened once state seasons in all Gulf state waters are finalized.
The Commission will make a final decision on this season at the April Commission meeting in Tallahassee.
While the federal limit for how many pounds of red snapper can be caught has increased, the season length has gotten shorter because of more fishing effort and larger fish, according to federal fishery managers.
After listening to public comment, the Commission chose to go inconsistent based on reports that the upcoming federal stock assessment would likely show red snapper populations are doing better than previously thought and reports from anglers that the fishery is improving and preference is to have a longer season.
The Commission also gave direction to FWC staff to look further into other long-term management options for red snapper.
For more on the proposal that was given to the Commission, visit MyFWC.com/Commission.


----------



## sniperpeeps

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Ok, your initialed to your opinion. I can remember just a few years back when Florida opened on the 15th, or when Federal was 2 per person and Florida was 4 per person, I can remember quite well exactly how long it took to deplete the "box" as we called it. It absolutely sucked pretty dang quick.
> 
> Now if Florida does not have a federal season or a very short one, and you put all the pressure in that little box for 44 days with the amount of small boats that fish now.
> 
> Also take in that the New Florida Bridge rubble that Soooooo many small boats fish, yea thats in Federal waters.


I'm just tired of the whole deplete the box and turn people into crooks argument....if all the states are non-compliant the Feds will have to figure out a different way to manage the fishery to get the states back on board with them. As we all know, there are more snapper out there than any other fish. This isn't a permanent fix but a move towards bigger change, hopefully.


----------



## Tom Hilton

Let's see - a state submits a proposal to provide their own accountability measures and to shut down fishing when their state water quota has been met and it is turned down.

So much for the feds wanting true accountability - it's REALLY not about that is it? It's about implementing a predetermined "new" way of managing our fish - one laid out by the Environmental Defense Fund 6 years ago.

It's going to be interesting to sse the creative logic they use to justify implementing catch shares in the federal EEZ when there is no federal EEZ season due to the Gulf states "non-compliance".

What is becoming crystal clear is that it shouldn't matter where the fish are caught offshore - they should be accounted for when they are landed in that state's ports - regional management by the states WITHOUT federal meddling or interference. No need for 30B, catch shares, days at sea, or any such BS.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Magic Mike

"What is becoming crystal clear is that it shouldn't matter where the fish are caught offshore - they should be accounted for when they are landed in that state's ports"

I agree... and with today's technology (most everyone having a smart phone), all it would take is an app that allows you to record what you caught. Or a simple phone call to report your take (to the state.. not the fed - lord knows they'd make "errors" in their favor). That's not too much to ask from us fisherman, and it would provide actual data that is traceable instead of guessing at how many pounds are being caught.

As for counting fish in the sea... artificial reefs MUST be considered. This makes absolutely no sense to me why they wouldn't...

Just my $0.02


----------



## markw4321

Captain Ard (Tom),

I see a direct link between the time (circa 2008) when a group of gulf federal charter permit holders (SOS group now cfa) broke from private boat owners and state permitted charter operators an announced in a plan submitted to the gulf council that federally permitted charter operators, should get a majority of the total recreational sector snapper allowable catch in a percentage split with other recreational fisherman, which ultimately forced the state of Florida and louisiana's hand to go non-compliant and brought us to where we are today.

I submit that the national fisheries service managers were content to keep cutting the recreational snapper season over the past 6 or 7 years while citing the requirement to do so was magnuson Stevens law, but with the intent to drive recreational catch shares as the answer to the decreasing red snappe season issue.

I also submit that what federal mangers, edf lobbyist and the cfa/SOS group may not have anticipated was the move by gulf states to ensure state recreational fisherman enjoy a viable fishing season.


Tom it is a mess right now but I think if you have not already done some heart felt reflection on the situation's history you should. And I think that if you do you would have to admit that when certain federally permit holders made their move it played a large part in the trouble we are facing today.
Respecftully
Mark


----------



## Lyin Too

Alabama wont go non compliant, they're too corrupt now and would rather take the payoffs from the Charter captains than do whats right for the non charter recreational fishermen. Bunch of crooked drunks in Montgomery.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

I just figured if Florida was to really go rouge they would have went with a 6 month season or something that paralleled Louisiana. I do not understand the 44 days, except to just be playing the game with the gulf council. Im sure theres a hole bunch of politics going on we don't know about. The next gulf council meeting is going to be interesting.


----------



## Harbison

Agreed! 44 days is nothing compared to what I, as well as most who fish offshore, see on a very regular basis. The American red snapper is very abundant. The seasons should be getting much longer, not much shorter. 
The '_politics'_ destroying our fishery is directly connected to shares/separation. The SOS, now called CFA, group knows that. NOAA, backed by EDF & Pew, knows that, the Gulf Council knows that:
Lawrence Abele, a Florida marine biologist and member of the Gulf Council, said every indicator suggests that “the snapper population is recovering faster than we can keep up with.” The fact that the snapper quota has been exceeded each year despite shorter and shorter seasons shows that the fishery is in better shape than federal scientists believe, he said. The (underwater video surveys) and everything else suggests we are moving in the right direction,” Abele said, arguing that the season should be getting longer each year, not shorter. “We’re doing something wrong.” 

Per Roy Crabtree, NOAA, Gulf Council, SAMFS, (Voting member)
"Yeah, we’re doing something wrong,” said Roy Crabtree, the fisheries service official in charge of setting the annual catch limit. “We’re giving (recreational anglers) too many days." 
It must be remembered that NOAA is hell bent on shoving shares/separation down the throats of the American people. Simply put, a healthy fishery does not show the need for either catch shares or sector separation. NOAA's answer: "We're giving the recreational anglers too many days." If we the people allow shares/separation to become the law of the land, watch for our, yes *OUR*, fishery to make a miraculous recovery. Just think, no more 27 day seasons with ridiculous possession limits. Now that we must pay,pay, and pay again for the 'privilege' of catching what was once *OUR* fish, they, all of a sudden, are in great shape. isn't it wonderful what big really *BIG* money can do?
One of the best ways of fighting the corruption, big money interest, that has taken over our fishery is to join the Florida based FRA. The stronger the FRA, the stronger we are. 
Show your support while having a great time at the annual FRA *BLAST!*
Join us for the FRA BLAST 2 at Tampa Bay Sporting Clays. Shooting here is like hunting in the wild. Shoot 50 targets between eight different stations throughout 260 acres of wooded, native Florida terrain, riding from station to station in your team club cart. Meet new friends, see old friends, talk to sponsors and have a BLAST! Whether you are a first time shooter or a crack shot, you will enjoy the friendly competition.
Afterward, enjoy the BLAST 2 EPIC drawing for SHOTGUNS, PISTOLS, RIFLES, SPEARGUNS, fishing gear, hunting and fishing trips, and much more. You do not have to shoot to participate in the BLAST 2 EPIC; however you must have an event ticket and you must be present to win. Event tickets for spectators (non-shooters) are $13 and include dinner and course admittance.
Register before February 9, 2013 for only $125 per shooter and receive an additional BLAST 2 EPIC ticket (a $10 value). To register, go to WWW.THEFRA.ORG, click on FRA BLAST 2, and then click Shooter Registration. Form a team with three of your friends!
Bob Harbison A proud member of the FRA


----------



## sniperpeeps

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/02/gulf_coast_senators_ask_for_in.html

Another step in the right direction


----------



## Harbison

Thanks! Looks like the voice of the American people is being heard. Bob


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

sniperpeeps said:


> http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/02/gulf_coast_senators_ask_for_in.html
> 
> Another step in the right direction



Maybe, just maybe the trip to Washington a few weeks ago made a difference, I hope so, we talked to Shelby and Bonner.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

markw4321 said:


> Captain Ard (Tom),
> 
> I see a direct link between the time (circa 2008) when a group of gulf federal charter permit holders (SOS group now cfa) broke from private boat owners and state permitted charter operators an announced in a plan submitted to the gulf council that federally permitted charter operators, should get a majority of the total recreational sector snapper allowable catch in a percentage split with other recreational fisherman, which ultimately forced the state of Florida and louisiana's hand to go non-compliant and brought us to where we are today.
> 
> I submit that the national fisheries service managers were content to keep cutting the recreational snapper season over the past 6 or 7 years while citing the requirement to do so was magnuson Stevens law, but with the intent to drive recreational catch shares as the answer to the decreasing red snappe season issue.
> 
> I also submit that what federal mangers, edf lobbyist and the cfa/SOS group may not have anticipated was the move by gulf states to ensure state recreational fisherman enjoy a viable fishing season.
> 
> 
> Tom it is a mess right now but I think if you have not already done some heart felt reflection on the situation's history you should. And I think that if you do you would have to admit that when certain federally permit holders made their move it played a large part in the trouble we are facing today.
> Respecftully
> Mark



Mark: Florida and Texas was going non-complain way before SOS was thought up. The charter boats wanting to separate from the recreational sector has absolutely nothing to do with states going non-complaint. Actually nothing and I mean nothing has been done but a few charter boaters thinking up better ways to do business, and thats it, it has been a grass roots movement at that. Theres been nothing done and even if every charter boater on the water and every true recreational person was jumping up and down for sector separation it would take years and I mean years from right now to implement.(guess what? not everyone is jumping up and down) I mean there hasn't even been any kind of pilot program implemented yet not even close really. I have a feeling that Sector Separation will come to a head this year or next year, and it will be by a vote, not from y'all but from the charter boats themselves that fish the gulf. We will then see if its something that will move forward or will we start looking in another direction. Theres probably about 550 or 600 federally permitted operators in the gulf out of 1265 permits, the average size boat is about 30 feet, when the overall vote comes in and 51% is for it then it will move forward, if not it will probably go away. If you don't agree then thats where our opinions differ. I will agree with you that its all screwed up tho:thumbsup:


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

Lyin Too said:


> Alabama wont go non compliant, they're too corrupt now and would rather take the payoffs from the Charter captains than do whats right for the non charter recreational fishermen. Bunch of crooked drunks in Montgomery.


I promise you buddy I have no funds for any payoffs. I don't know many if any charter captains that have much extra left to pay anybody, if you don't believe me just ask about every store in Orange Beach that I have an account in.


----------



## JoeyWelch

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I promise you buddy I have no funds for any payoffs. I don't know many if any charter captains that have much extra left to pay anybody, if you don't believe me just ask about every store in Orange Beach that I have an account in.


 
WHAT???? I was hoping to buy a charter and get in on some of the big money. Just Joking.


----------



## Harbison

Looks like changes are coming!


----------



## Harbison

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Maybe, just maybe the trip to Washington a few weeks ago made a difference, I hope so, we talked to Shelby and Bonner.


Great! Thanks for sharing


----------



## Tom Hilton

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Mark: Florida and Texas was going non-complain way before SOS was thought up. The charter boats wanting to separate from the recreational sector has absolutely nothing to do with states going non-complaint. Actually nothing and I mean nothing has been done but a few charter boaters thinking up better ways to do business, and thats it, it has been a grass roots movement at that. Theres been nothing done and even if every charter boater on the water and every true recreational person was jumping up and down for sector separation it would take years and I mean years from right now to implement.(guess what? not everyone is jumping up and down) I mean there hasn't even been any kind of pilot program implemented yet not even close really. I have a feeling that Sector Separation will come to a head this year or next year, and it will be by a vote, not from y'all but from the charter boats themselves that fish the gulf. We will then see if its something that will move forward or will we start looking in another direction. Theres probably about 550 or 600 federally permitted operators in the gulf out of 1265 permits, the average size boat is about 30 feet, when the overall vote comes in and 51% is for it then it will move forward, if not it will probably go away. If you don't agree then thats where our opinions differ. I will agree with you that its all screwed up tho:thumbsup:


There is NOTHING grass roots about a hundred million dollar corporation financing the Catch Share movement. Oh, did I mention that EDF had their operative appointed as head of NOAA, with Catch Shares as her main objective?

Grass roots?

Enough with the deception Amigo. 

Captain Thomas J. Hilton


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## Fairwaterfishing

LOL @ Hilton, wait till they start talking about capping the true recreational effort, its coming. I bet you even hear talk as soon as the April meeting.


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## Tom Hilton

Yeah, I don't doubt it. They don't want to count them, but they want to cap them.

Go reference your EDF catch share handbook - I think it's in chapter 4.


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## The LaJess II

Fairwater was this posted below meeting you just attended in DC?

*Fishermen and Chefs Unify Over Sustainable Fishing*

*Group Travels to Washington, D.C. to Advocate for Catch Shares*



February 13, 2013


Contact: 
For Environmental Defense Fund: Matt Smelser, [email protected], 512.731.3023 
For Chef Rick Moonen: Ken Langdon, [email protected], 773.234.2865 


(Washington, D.C. February 13, 2013) – More than one hundred fishermen, chefs and seafood distributors from around the country are traveling to the nation’s capital today to ask members of Congress to give them the tools they need – namely to give fishermen the ability to catch fish sustainably through a fishery management tool called catch shares.
Teams of fishermen and chefs will meet with their members of Congress and ask them to fully fund catch share programs. Catch shares help eliminate overfishing and restore fish stocks by dividing the total scientifically approved allowable catch among the fishermen and ending short seasons and derbies. Catch shares have been proven to recover fish populations, increase compliance with catch limits, reduce waste, stabilize revenue and increase business efficiency. 
More than 65% of all fish landed in United States federal waters are landed under a catch share fishing program providing a healthy ecosystem, fishing jobs, and a consistent supply of sustainable seafood.
Recently, catch shares have been under fire by some in Congress and special interests who have sought to take the authority to implement the tool out of the hands of local fishery managers. 
The group of chefs is being led by Chef Rick Moonen, who is delivering a letter supporting catch shares management signed by notable chefs from around the country. Moonen has been a tireless advocate for sustainable fishing.
“Embracing the idea of serving my customers sustainable seafood has been a primary focus over the past 25 years of my professional career as a chef,”said Rick Moonen, chef/owner of rm seafood in Las Vegas. "Catch share programs naturally create an incentive for environmental preservation and species stewardship by the fishermen who rely on their health to succeed. Restaurants will then get to experience a more consistent supply of properly handled fish, more stable prices, longer seasons and more species diversity. Most importantly we need to provide the fishermen with the tools they need, like fully funded catch share programs.”
Currently, more than 87 percent of the world’s fisheries are overfished, and much of the fish consumed in the United States – roughly 90 percent – is imported. A recent survey by the National Restaurant Association found that fresh, local seafood is becoming increasingly important to consumers.
In their letter, the chefs say that catch shares have a proven track record of restoring fisheries and creating valuable sources of locally-caught sustainable seafood in the United States. 
“Catch shares allow us to better utilize the fishery. We can fish year-round, earn higher prices for what we catch and provide consumers with a quality product,” said John Schmidt, a commercial fisherman from Palm Harbor, Florida. “Congress needs to know that many fishermen strongly support catch share management. And the reason we do so is because catch shares work. Congress needs to keep catch shares on the table and leave management decision to regional fishery management councils.”
Environmental Defense Fund (EDF) is committed to ending overfishing and is currently working with fishermen and fishery managers around the United States and the world to implement catch shares. “EDF believes that catch shares offer a solution that not only ensures the long-term sustainability of our oceans’ fisheries, but can help to preserve the business and sport of fishing for future generations,” said Matt Rand, Senior Campaigns Director for EDF’s Oceans Program. 
Fishermen and chefs will meet all day Wednesday on Capitol Hill and then gather to recognize Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Rep. Chellie Pingree of Maine’s First Congressional District as “Fishing Families Champions” for their service in pursuit of responsible management of our nation’s fisheries and their tireless advocacy for fishermen.


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## Fairwaterfishing

EDF got me to where I needed to be. Could not have done that on my on, they did not tell us at all what to say. I got to speak my mind, I feel it helped.


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## feelin' wright

Fairwaterfishing said:


> LOL @ Hilton, wait till they start talking about capping the true recreational effort, its coming. I bet you even hear talk as soon as the April meeting.


Would you be in favor of catch shares if your boat did not receive any of the allocation? You guys are being used as puppets and once the EDF no longer needs you then you are going to find they are going to leave you swinging in the wind. Pure greed by the charter captains.....


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## Fairwaterfishing

Yes I would still be for sector separation.


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## Lyin Too

I dont understand you charter captains. Do you really hate the monkey boats so much that you want the feds to ban them from catching "your" fish. Is deer hunting next? You cant go kill a deer boys and girls unless you go with a guide!


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## markw4321

These below text with percenatges / numbers taken from the email at the following link are interesting. 

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/sector-separation-leader-sticks-foot-mouth-again-145361/

Doesn't leave much of a percentage for the private boater's or state water charter permit holder's fishing season - does it?


_-----------------------------------_
_4. We have allowed for the discussion that a 50-50 charter for hire and private rec split be considered as a possibility for all species that have a established allocation for rec and commercial fisheries. IE... Red Snapper,Red and Gag Groupers,Amberjacks,Gray trigger fish. To be totally fair and gives a little to gain a little species by species
_--------------------------

_-----------------------------------_
_4. We have allowed for the discussion that a 50-50 charter for hire and private rec split be considered as a possibility for all species that have a established allocation for rec and commercial fisheries. IE... Red Snapper,Red and Gag Groupers,Amberjacks,Gray trigger fish. To be totally fair and gives a little to gain a little species by species. 

__5) For example the charter for hire / private rec split has been around 62%-38% for Red Snapper and Amberjack, about 58%-42% for trigger fish and 28%-72% for grouper So to be fair we could look at giving up some snapper and amberjack to get some more grouper for the recreational anglers who go on charter /head boats. (Note these are not the final corrected MRFSS figures but are within a few % points) This helps the charter fishermen get a few more grouper gulf wide and also helps the private recreational sector get a few more snapper and Amberjacks to catch gulf wide. This could be a fair trade and a good political compromise in the end.. Or we can let the chips fall were they may and rely only on the landing histories._


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## Harbison

What ARS season???
Only in NOAA Land:
A blatant waste of a very precious resource:
MOBILE, Ala. A federal mandate to remove old, abandoned oil and gas rigs in the Gulf of Mexico is blowing up a lot more than just the rigs. 
Dr. Bob Shipp, Gulf Fishery Management Council, noted that demolitions are frequent, sometimes three a week. Dr. Shipp has been a strong opponent of the demolitions. Dr. Shipp states, "Not only are we killing a lot of snapper, but we're also destroying their habitat. We're talking about the most valuable fish species in the Gulf of Mexico, the one on which so much tourism, industry and restaurants depend. Then we see something like this which is just:
A blatant waste of a very precious resource."
Captain Jason Domange: "They tell us not to fish red snapper but they're blowing them up." Only in NOAA Land
Bob Harbison A very concerned Native Florida sportsman


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## sniperpeeps

Fairwaterfishing said:


> EDF got me to where I needed to be. .


That statement pretty much says it all.......your either with them or against them IMO.


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## John B.

sniperpeeps said:


> That statement pretty much says it all.......your either with them or against them IMO.


X2

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


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## Harbison

The few left who still go along with what EDF is selling are in for a sad awakening.


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## The LaJess II

What we have got to do is get our legislators to introduce a bill that will stop all outside funding and grants to NOAA and all fishery managements that is run under the Government. They are trying to sale our fisheries right out from under us by implementing catch shares through out the US and calling it “Rebuilding Our Fisheries”. All this is about is to have control over a 9 billion dollar industry at our expense. The commercial side is not enough of the pie they want the whole pie.


Fairwater you guys are nothing but a pawn in their game. If and when they get catch share implemented you guys will be done also.


It’s time to put the heat on and everyone start sending letters to our legislators to get a bill introduced.


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## jim t

I did a "catch survey" with the FWC a week ago. I asked him about the ARS problem. His feeling was that it needed to be regionalized by county or region. 

Fish are doing well here, not so well in other parts of the state.

Better than a blanket federal rule.

Jim


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## markw4321

The action within the state of FL to go non compliant in FL state waters is a de facto move to regionalization. In essence the state of Florida feels comfortable that the stock is healthy enough for a 44 day state water season.


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## Harbison

The LaJess ll: Sir, you are 100% correct. The 9 billion dollar takeover of *OUR* fishery must stop & stop now!
jim t: I have been saying all along that ARS should be 'regionalized by county or region'. We in Central Florida must go at least 40 miles to have a good chance of catching a red snapper. Top spots like the Elbow is 80 miles off Madeira Beach. The Florida Middle Grounds is around 100 miles. The fishing can be great, however, the distances involved restricts participation. In my last three trips offshore I have not seen another boat. Even during ARS season, the cost is so great that we see few if any boats. Bob H. 

State, as well as federal, waters possess a healthy supply of ARS. The constant reports coming in from across the state indicate this. However, it must be remembered, a healthy fishery does not show the need for shares/separation.


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## Lyin Too

I couldnt agree more


----------



## Matt Mcleod

Fairwaterfishing said:


> EDF got me to where I needed to be. Could not have done that on my on, they did not tell us at all what to say. I got to speak my mind, I feel it helped.


Unbelievable......I honestly don't understand how you can be so blind. The EDF has one objective, limit the access to fishing. The CFA gets in bed with them hoping that by limiting other's access it will get charter boats more. 

Truly shameful, disgusting behavior. 

I am ashamed that many of the people that share my profession refuse to be a part of a meaningful solution and have instead chosen to fight over who gets the biggest piece of a pie that gets smaller every year. 

Here you are spouting off the talking points of the "Charter Fishermen's Assoc" and spreading the fear propaganda of the NMFS to try to weaken the support for state non-compliance. 

Even now when they've taken it all you still wait at the feet of the thief hoping for some scrapes...


The states' have changed the game and have made a big difference in equitable fisheries management. You know how I know? Cause if the CFA and NMFS are mad and scared we must be headed in the right direction!!


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## JoeyWelch

Funny how true colors allway's show through. Regardless of how hard some try to hide them.


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## Harbison

*SOS & CFA's reign of terror is over!*

:furious:
"The states' have changed the game and have made a big difference in equitable fisheries management. You know how I know? Cause if the CFA and NMFS are mad and scared we must be headed in the right direction!!"
'The right direction' indeed! NOAA, infiltrated by EDF & Pew, is much more interested in big, really BIG, $$$, than either fish of fisherman. Bring on shares/separation, better known as 'PAID FISHING!' Finally the sates are stepping up and saying NO MORE! We have had enough & are not going to take it any more. Say good-by to both the so called SOS & CFA. Your reign of terror is over. 
If NOAA & the so called 'environmentalist' are so concerned about the state of the fishery, why have they done absolutely NOTHING to stop this?


----------



## whome

Matt Mcleod said:


> Unbelievable......I honestly don't understand how you can be so blind. The EDF has one objective, limit the access to fishing. The CFA gets in bed with them hoping that by limiting other's access it will get charter boats more.
> 
> Truly shameful, disgusting behavior.
> 
> I am ashamed that many of the people that share my profession refuse to be a part of a meaningful solution and have instead chosen to fight over who gets the biggest piece of a pie that gets smaller every year.
> 
> Here you are spouting off the talking points of the "Charter Fishermen's Assoc" and spreading the fear propaganda of the NMFS to try to weaken the support for state non-compliance.
> 
> Even now when they've taken it all you still wait at the feet of the thief hoping for some scrapes...
> 
> 
> The states' have changed the game and have made a big difference in equitable fisheries management. You know how I know? Cause if the CFA and NMFS are mad and scared we must be headed in the right direction!!


And I promise you Matt, that People will not forget what you and Chris and the other permit holders have done for the recreational fisherman. People will also not forget those who have chosen to lay in bed with the devil and sell their souls.

Integrity, some have it, some don't.....:thumbsup:


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## Harbison

NOAA's strangle hold on what was once our fishery must be broken. Often, as many of us who actually fish offshore know, it is next to impossible to get a line down past the ever abundant red snapper. Yet we are told that ARS are in such lousy shape that at best we can only have a 27 day season. Left alone, we are headed towards NO season at all. The FWC has voted to go noncompliant. In Central Florida we have no red snapper in state waters. Never-the-less, those of us who look to the future, not just today, realize that the state had no other choice. If Crabtree does close federal waters it will only strengthen the animosity towards him as well as NOAA. 
Bob Harbison A very concerned native Florida sportsman


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## JoeyWelch

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> And I promise you Matt, that People will not forget what you and Chris and the other permit holders have done for the recreational fisherman. People will also not forget those who have chosen to lay in bed with the devil and sell their souls.
> 
> Integrity, some have it, some don't.....:thumbsup:


 
THIS^^^^

Couldn't have been said better.


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## cammeron

This just posted on al.com

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/03/red_snapper_rules_continue_to.html#incart_river


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## sniperpeeps

Dr. Bob Shipp, who sits on the Gulf council, said noncompliance by Florida would have a much greater effect on the snapper season than noncompliance by Louisiana or Texas.
"If Florida goes noncompliant, it's a different ball game," Shipp said. "It's entirely possible that Florida, in state waters with a long season and liberal bag limit, could catch the entire quota. There wouldn't be a fishery Gulf-wide. Then the whole system would collapse, I think."




He knows whats up!


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## lobsterman

They have to do something to get anything to happen. At present course we are doomed to no catch.


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## Harbison

*NOAA's grip on our fishery must be broken*

Only the Florida Panhandle, Northern Florida, contains any red snapper within state waters. We, in Central Florida, must travel great distances to catch ARS. As far as ARS goes, most of Florida depends on Federal waters. The problem is the feds have all but closed federal waters. The seasons are getting shorter every year. Without intervention, we are headed towards NO season at all. Central Florida offshore waters are absolutely covered with healthy American reds. NOAA's grip on our fishery must be broken. We, all five gulf states, should have seasons in proportion to what is really out there. "If Florida goes noncompliant, it's a different ball game". The reason for this is because of the landings in Florida, which is absolutely huge. 
"Then the whole system would collapse"! It has already collapsed. Louisiana, Texas, and now Florida have all said we have had enough, we are not going to take it anymore. 
The Gulf Council and the FWC will meet in April. Look for a compromise.


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## snookman

I am confused since I picked up Fishing Regulations book and it says the gulf is closed to red snapper but yet fwc says different. has anybody seen this? Being that I am really new to gulf fishing, I dont need to get into trouble over size limits as well whats in season and not. its not uncommon anymore for over night changes.


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## Harbison

The Gulf Council (Federal waters) & the FWC (State waters) are bickering over the season. We will not know for sure what we have, or do not have, until the Council & FWC meet in April.


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## southbound

​​​​​*Gulf Council Seeking Comments on Regional Management of**
Recreational Red Snapper*​ 
The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council recently announced projections that indicate the 2013 recreational red snapper season will be the shortest ever, at just 27 days. That is a shocking announcement when coupled with what appears to be an astounding red snapper recovery. Faced with unprecedented frustration from anglers and Gulf States alike, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council is now seeking public input on a proposed amendment that examines regional management of recreational red snapper.

Regional management of recreational red snapper is at the very earliest stages of discussion and an extraordinary number of details remain undefined. In the most basic terms, Regional Management would give states more control to propose red snapper management measures tailored to specific regions of the Gulf of Mexico. However, it should be stressed that Regional Management as currently being considered will not give states total control over this fishery. The states will be limited by what the federal fishery management system gives them to manage. The federal government would still determine the total allowable harvest and the states would have only the ability to determine things like seasons, limits and other regulations within the same overall parameters.

Copies of the *Regional Management scoping document* a can be downloaded from the Gulf Council's website.

Coastal Conservation Association supports driving management of marine resources to the lowest levels of government possible. That position is staked in the belief that the states simply have a better grasp of how to manage these resources in ways that ensure their health and stability. At the same time, state agencies have proven their expertise in providing the greatest access to those resources and maximizing the benefits of those resources for their citizens. Almost every one of this country’s great marine conservation success stories has been engineered by the states.

While many details to Regional Management are lacking at this point, CCA generally views Regional Management as a potential path to achieving our overriding goal of healthy marine resources and increased access to them for the greatest benefit of the public.

CCA has provided* testimony* at a recent series of workshops on Regional Management that were held along the Gulf Coast, but we also encourage our members to make their own voices heard on these issues as well. Comments can be made to the Gulf Council online at this *LINK*:
http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/comment_forms/RF%20Amendment%2039%20-%20Regional%20Management%20of%20Rec%20Red%20Snapper.php
​You have received this message because you have subscribed to a mailing list of Coastal Conservation Association. If you do not wish to receive periodic emails from this source, please click below to unsubscribe.


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## ragsfisher

yes yes yes yes


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## Fairwaterfishing

"While many details to Regional Management are lacking at this point". 

Yea no kidding. Regional Management if it worked off of the set TAC by the NMFS which it will as far as I know. Your going to see a REAL fight for fish allocation by the states that will blow your mind.


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## nextstep

Matt Mcleod said:


> Do you support the FWC going non-compliant with red snapper regs? Online Petition
> 
> As many of you may know we are looking at an even shorter red snapper season for 2013. If Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi all stay compliant with the federal season we will get approximately 27 days, Texas has been non-compliant for several years now. The state of LA has already made it clear that they are not going to be compliant and are working through a few steps before their 7 month season will be official, so that would cut the 27 days down dramatically because of the way the total allowable catch (TAC) works.
> 
> Here’s a little background on how red snapper fishing is managed in the Gulf of Mexico. Each state has a section of water that is referred to as “state waters” which is the water within so many miles of that particular states coast. The state of Florida has 9 miles, Alabama 3, Mississippi 3, Louisiana 3 going to 10.3, and Texas 9. The fishery regulations in state waters are managed by that states Organization, for the state of Florida it’s the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The federal waters are managed by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and in our current situation by one man Dr. Roy Crabtree.
> 
> Another group involved is the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council. The Gulf Council is made up of people from all five states that make recommendations of the NMFS. Although it doesn’t seem like their opinion has mattered very much over the years when it comes to red snapper management.
> 
> The NMFS follows the rules of the Magnuson Stevens Act, but without going into pages of detail they are using bad science. There numbers are wrong and they know it, but Dr. Crabtree uses the excuse he has no option but to follow the law using the science and numbers he’s provided.
> 
> There are several reasons why the State of Florida has stayed compliant in the past. One of those reasons is funding from the federal government could be reduced or cut because Florida isn’t playing by the rules, but if Louisiana and Texas can handle it why can’t Florida.
> 
> The biggest reason they have stayed compliant is likely because of the opposition of the charter boat sector and captains from Destin to Port St. Joe show up for meetings. Under the current rules if a charter boat holds a federal reef fish permit they are not allowed to fish in state waters for species that are closed in federal waters. That being said if red snapper is open in state waters and not federal waters boats that hold and wish to continue to hold their federal permit would not be allowed to fish for red snapper in state waters. This is another example of the government trying to force the states to stay compliant because they know charter boat operators will oppose non-compliance.
> 
> Right now we have a bigger opportunity than ever before to make substantial changes to the way red snapper are managed, but the only possible way for this to happen is to get the FWC to go non-compliant with the federal season. I have been going to fishery meetings for over 10 years and I strongly feel this is the best chance we have ever had! Louisiana has opened the door for us and we must get the FWC to take the same route.
> 
> What you must know is that Florida being non-compliant will most likely mean 0 days of federal waters red snapper season for recreational anglers and put charter boat operators in a horrible situation, but this will tear down the house of cards and force the NMFS to rethink their way of regulating. It has even been rumored that Dr. Crabtree would punish the states and place closures on other species in federal waters.
> 
> Dr. Bob Shipp who sets on the Gulf Council is one of the most accredited and respected fishery scientists along the northern Gulf is in support of the states going non-compliant and breaking the system. Locally we have the support of Robert Turpin and in turn our local government to make a recommendation to the FWC Commissioners to go non-compliant.
> 
> Our boat “Hot Spots” holds a federal reef permit and this will have an effect on us as with any other charter, but do the few days of red snapper fishing we’re going to get June really help? The answer is NO, that is everyone’s busiest time of the year and people will want to go fishing during that time whether red snapper is open or not. Now on the other hand a red snapper season in the spring or fall sure would be good for business.
> 
> In order for the FWC to go non-compliant it will need to be an overwhelming amount of one sided support. I feel if it’s 50/50 that they will stay compliant with the federal regulations.
> 
> Feel free to discuss the current status of red snapper on this thread, but even if you don’t want to discuss would you please comment either “Yes” or “No” on whether you support non-compliance or not.
> 
> Feel free to contact me if you would like to further discuss…
> 
> Online Petition
> 
> Captain Matt McLeod
> (850) 418-5333


 
518 signatures goal 1000
Online Petition


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## JoeyWelch

519 Now..


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## Tom Hilton

Fairwaterfishing said:


> "While many details to Regional Management are lacking at this point".
> 
> Yea no kidding. Regional Management if it worked off of the set TAC by the NMFS which it will as far as I know. Your going to see a REAL fight for fish allocation by the states that will blow your mind.


If TRUE regional management was implemented, then there would no need for any fight for allocation between the states.

TRUE regional management means that each region would have full management authority WITHOUT federal interference or data manipulation.

I would prefer to see each state manage the fish landed at their ports, regardless of whether they were caught in state or federal waters. That's the thing - the feds currently manage fish in federal waters but they MUST travel through state waters to reach land.

The states could perform their own fishery assessments and implement their own AMs and ACLs to ensure that overfishing does not occur.

The states could determine what percentage of recreational vs commercial fishing occurs in their region.

The NMFS has failed the Gulf fishermen, fisheries, and communities miserably - it's time for this out-of-control federal bureaucracy to be de-funded and the reins to our Gulf fisheries management handed over to the states.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## nextstep

Tom Hilton said:


> If TRUE regional management was implemented, then there would no need for any fight for allocation between the states.
> 
> TRUE regional management means that each region would have full management authority WITHOUT federal interference or data manipulation.
> 
> I would prefer to see each state manage the fish landed at their ports, regardless of whether they were caught in state or federal waters. That's the thing - the feds currently manage fish in federal waters but they MUST travel through state waters to reach land.
> 
> The states could perform their own fishery assessments and implement their own AMs and ACLs to ensure that overfishing does not occur.
> 
> The states could determine what percentage of recreational vs commercial fishing occurs in their region.
> 
> The NMFS has failed the Gulf fishermen, fisheries, and communities miserably - it's time for this out-of-control federal bureaucracy to be de-funded and the reins to our Gulf fisheries management handed over to the states.
> 
> Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


hear! hear! as always well said capt.


----------



## southbound

If TRUE regional management was implemented, then there would no need for any fight for allocation between the states.

TRUE regional management means that each region would have full management authority WITHOUT federal interference or data manipulation. 

I agree. Regional management for fish needs to be looked at the same way it is used to manage wildlife in the various states. Take deer or turkey for instance, they are managed by the states completly because they do not migrate to different states, countries ect. Waterfowl on the other hand are managed by the feds with some latitude to the states but for the most part the seasons and limits are set by reccomendations from the flyway council which is composed of members from all of the states (similar to the gulf council). Snapper trigger fish, grouper and most bottom fish are not migratory and should be regulated by the states period. The palegics is a different story and gets much more complicated but the Feds do and probably should have control of regulating those species. Just my opinion.


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## captrick

fishing season is like politics "nothing makes sense anymore


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## seabiscuit

I agree and signed the petition. Looks like 519 signatures so far. Over 1/2 way to the goal of 1000. Anyone that sees this.....it takes less than 2 minutes to sign.


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## DI 310

Here is a question I would like to have answered . The EDF has taken credit for helping with the rewrite of the reauthorization of MSA in 2006. With that being said, do you think we would have all the mess going on now with the snapper fishery if they did not "help"? I am for conservation, but catching snapper for years preceding 2006 was no major problem. Sure you had to fish a little longer and harder, but most of the time it was no problem.I guess what I am saying if they helped to create this mess,why would anyone want to support them now. Sure has been major problems the last several years for the CFH guys and folks like me that just love to fish.


----------



## markw4321

DI 310 said:


> Here is a question I would like to have answered . The EDF has taken credit for helping with the rewrite of the reauthorization of MSA in 2006. With that being said, do you think we would have all the mess going on now with the snapper fishery if they did not "help"? I am for conservation, but catching snapper for years preceding 2006 was no major problem. Sure you had to fish a little longer and harder, but most of the time it was no problem.I guess what I am saying if they helped to create this mess,why would anyone want to support them now. Sure has been major problems the last several years for the CFH guys and folks like me that just love to fish.


Good question. I think Edf had the long term catch share strategy in mind when they lobbied and pushed for the 2006 MSA language. They as a group have a strategic plan and they are executing it. When they hit a bump they develop a plan for a way around it and then execute that. For example if not catch shares for charter boats then days at sea which basically does the same thing. They are well funded and have salaried positions with people paid to do nothing but push their agenda in the gulf region.


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## Fairwaterfishing

The EDF has to help change back MSA and lighten up on some of the rebuilding dates. If not there catch share support may not be there. Get it?


----------



## DI 310

Tom, why should they have more influence than any other NGO with any thing to do with the MSA? I realize they have money, but their influence in my opinion is the reason why everyone is so unhappy now. All the CFH guys that I know were pretty well satisfied before 2006.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing

DI 310 said:


> Tom, why should they have more influence than any other NGO with any thing to do with the MSA? I realize they have money, but their influence in my opinion is the reason why everyone is so unhappy now. All the CFH guys that I know were pretty well satisfied before 2006.


Im not saying that they have, but they do have influence. In 2006 I don't think anyone would have or could have guessed all the mess that the 2006 reauthorization made. Im hoping for some change this time around.


----------



## Tom Hilton

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Im not saying that they have, but they do have influence. In 2006 I don't think anyone would have or could have guessed all the mess that the 2006 reauthorization made. Im hoping for some change this time around.


This illustrates your total misunderstanding of who you are dealing with here as well as your own role as acting as their useful idiot Ard.

EDF, Pew and other NGOs have been adament in the past few years about there being no need to revise Magnuson and that it already has enough flexibility. EDF's Jane Lubchenco, at a Congressional hearing a couple of years ago conceded that the arbitrary timelines for ending overfishing has no scientific basis, yet still refused to extend those timelines. She knew that extending those timelines was not part of the strategic plan.

After all, it was EDF's Oceans Team that was "INSTRUMENTAL in crafting and passing the 2006 changes to Magnuson", and the pain that we are all feeling today are, as Mark has suggested, is simply part of EDF's long term strategic plan. 

They knew exactly what would be happening today in 2013 relative to their implementation of their plan into law in 2006, as it is all part of the plan to coerce us into accepting catch shares, and the NMFS has been complicit in this deception.

EDF needs to get the hell out of our fisheries management process, and the NMFS needs to be held accountable for their role in this debacle.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## The LaJess II

Fairwaterfishing said:


> The EDF has to help change back MSA and lighten up on some of the rebuilding dates. If not there catch share support may not be there. Get it?


Please read this article that a Charter Captain wrote that has already went down the road you are headed with the EDF.
It might change your mind and show you EDF's true colors.

http://www.ncwu.net/HereComeCatchShares.pdf


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## 20simmons sea skiff

noaa,s boss, jane Lubchenco worked for edf with sam walton before king Obama appointed her, same agenda at noaa as was with edf. after noaa was told no they asked for 54 millon to push ahead catch shares, go figure.Why did they hire a person from an anti fishing group to head noaa. when she was asked to appear at congressonial oversight hearing she stated she only answered to Obama and didn't show.Sam only donated 70 millon to edf.


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## Harbison

Presume you have heard that jelly fish Jane has retired. Obama appointed her. Whomever he appoints must be approved by the Senate. Hopefully the Senate will not allow another EDF appointee.


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## Tom Hilton

Heard the Lubchenco was forced out due to her ordering of Dale Jones to shred documents during a federal investigation - she didn't "retire". More to come on that later...

What an absolute marvelous legacy that lady, uh, I mean woman left behind - created a National Disaster of the fishery that she elected to use as the guinea pig for her Catch Share Plan, and will be viewed by historians as an absolute disgrace.

At least she can't inflict any more damage on American fishermen.


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## Harbison

Captain Hilton, she 'said' she '_retired'_ for family reasons. We know better. I heard rumors that she was forced out in part because of the way she handled Sandy. Please keep us informed. 
"_DISGRACE" _is way too mild! Bob


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## 20simmons sea skiff

I haven't heard about that yet, yea maybe we have a chance now. I love it, good riddance


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## nextstep

hopefully it will be a house of cards


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## whome

Tom Hilton, do you know who they will replace that lady with? Is there a push to get someone fair and unbiased in there?


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## axman

all u need is 100 ft cotton line a hook of any kind go out everybody leave your reels at home catch snapper with hand line easy now leave line behind . If stopped you been to Joe Patties simple. If everybody stuck together we could go fishing this weekend.What they gone do with 300 boats?


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## Tom Hilton

Capt. Pinney,
Highly unlikely with this administration in power. Brian Rothschild would have been the logical choice from the gitgo, but he's not on EDF's payroll...


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## jim t

axman said:


> all u need is 100 ft cotton line a hook of any kind go out everybody leave your reels at home catch snapper with hand line easy now leave line behind . If stopped you been to Joe Patties simple. If everybody stuck together we could go fishing this weekend.What they gone do with 300 boats?


I think we have possession limits, not take limits. 

If you have too many Snapper aboard I bet you could still be charged with over possession regs. Even if you have nary a hook, line nor sinker aboard.

Jim


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## fiddleworm

chris phillips said:


> we really need everyone to comment on this thread even if its just yes or no. I would like to be able to point out this thread when i communicate with the commissioners this week. We have an online petition as well, but want to make sure the majority supports non-compliance before we move forward!


yes


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## Harbison

YES! The grip NOAA, under the guidance of EDF, & Pew, must be broken.


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## snookman

Yes


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## nextstep

yes
Online Petition


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## eodryan

Yes


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## Donald811

*Yes to non-compliance!*


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## GWally

*Non-Compliance Vote*

Yes


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## catchenbeatsfishen

Yes to non compliance


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## ragsfisher

yes yes yes yes


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## flickerjim

Its obvious to me that the people who are making all these rule and regs do not fish. Nor are they dealing with the daily grind of Charters or making their living on the water. There still is not a definitive answer to why the season has been cut.. Cause from everyone who fishes can vouch for there being plenty of ERS. Am I missing something?


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## Harbison

Often, on the Florida Middle Grounds, as well as from one end of our state to the other, the ARS population is so great that we who actually fish cannot get away from this very aggressive fish. The ridiculously short season & very low possession limit is based on greed, not science. NOAA is hell bent on stuffing catch shares (better known as PAID fishing) down our throats. A healthy fishery is not conducive to catch shares. The conclusion is obvious, and we are paying the price.


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## Siggie

A Louisiana Senator is introducing a bill to ban commercial ARS fishing in LA. 

http://www.tri-parishtimes.com/news/article_55c4474a-9c83-11e2-8998-0019bb2963f4.htmlhttp://

“If NOAA Fisheries believes the situation in Louisiana is so dire that its citizens can only fish for nine days, then we should take drastic steps to help our state’s fisheries recover more quickly,” Allain said in a statement issued Monday night. “I propose that until such time that the fisheries and season return to a more normal level, the harvest, the sale, or the transportation for sale of red snapper should be prohibited in Louisiana and her waters.”


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## cajanqueen

Yes


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## sniperpeeps

Siggie said:


> A Louisiana Senator is introducing a bill to ban commercial ARS fishing in LA.
> 
> http://www.tri-parishtimes.com/news/article_55c4474a-9c83-11e2-8998-0019bb2963f4.htmlhttp://
> 
> “If NOAA Fisheries believes the situation in Louisiana is so dire that its citizens can only fish for nine days, then we should take drastic steps to help our state’s fisheries recover more quickly,” Allain said in a statement issued Monday night. “I propose that until such time that the fisheries and season return to a more normal level, the harvest, the sale, or the transportation for sale of red snapper should be prohibited in Louisiana and her waters.”


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## TOBO

That guy can run for president. He is actually hitting NOAA where it hurts the most, and it is a logical approach. This is what happens when one group gets too greedy. There may be a money trail, but put a politician in the mix and its pretty easy to see which side will get him more votes.


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## chuckr2

Here is a quote from the Louisiana senator, Brett Allain:
“If NOAA Fisheries believes the situation in Louisiana is so dire that its citizens can only fish for nine days, then we should take drastic steps to help our state’s fisheries recover more quickly,” Allain said in a statement issued Monday night. “I propose that until such time that the fisheries and season return to a more normal level, the harvest, the sale, or the transportation for sale of red snapper should be prohibited in Louisiana and her waters.”

As I read some other articles about this proposal they were titled something like, "Senator proposes ban on commercial harvest of red snapper in Louisiana waters." But as I read his quote, not only does it sound like he is proposing a ban on the sale of snapper (commercial harvest), but is proposing a ban on all harvest of red snapper in Louisiana waters. This would include recreational fishing as well. I tried to find an actual copy of his proposed bill (SB 157), but did not find it. If the way I read this quote is accurate and it actually passes (doubtful in my mind) that will certainly stir up a storm.


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## Lyin Too

And a storm such as this is the only thing that will get our fishing privileges restored.


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## seashaker

Yes, yes, to non-compliance.


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## Team Fish Head

That such junk science is even dignified is outrageous. But I will ask how the UCF research squares with the Council's assessments and/or do we reach out to all of those doing such research for a game of poker over what is and isn't?

Say we put such a deal before the House Committee charged with oversight of NOAA....with its funding for the Gulf Council and the other sham regulators on the table? Squeezing the Politics out of it should be easy but not until a neck or two is stepped on will sanity rule over this critical issue.

Seems that this Admin frowns on those who take their dissent Public or outside of the regime's propaganda machine as they find themselves cast as 'domestic terrorists' by the Admin's water carrier SPLC in Monkeytown. Go read some of the NE forums, Alaska forums, THT and so forth and invest a little time seeing this for what I believe is just a coordinated attack by Environmentalist Extremists financed by faceless Foundations on the entire Fishing Industry. 

A way of Life that formed the very basis for our Species to survive is quite literally being Bureaucratically and thus arbitrarily regulated out of existence. This is NOT what The Founders intended nor ever envisioned since they sanely recognized that our Fisheries were a prime resource so vital the the early Republic's success was directly attached to it.

For Historical reference, how many recall the infamous 'Luxury Tax' of the Clinton Years? Bonus question, what single Industry was punished and decimated nearly to extinction and has cost the Nation at least a Trillion in Economic losses? The ghostly remains of villages along the US coastline stand testament today to the trickle down effects of a Government so powerful that it can dictate all of the terms. 

Sorry for the length...


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## nextstep

570

Online Petition

:thumbup:


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## bonehead senior

DAMN all these rules on top of rules. You now need a law degree to lnterprite them. As one fellow said practice fillet and release!


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## Donnie24

So how long is Florida state waters snapper season open for this year.


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## Harbison

The Gulf Council & FWC have a meeting this month, we should know the seasons after that. But it must be remembered, King Crabtree does not like us catching _his _red snapper!


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## fiddleworm

*anyone familiar with these folks??*

http://www.pewenvironment.org/uploa...ource/eogm-ecosystem-consideration-letter.pdf when it says environmental, I think tree huggers or ban all fishing to save the fish!! I hope I read it wrong???


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## Matt Mcleod

Chris and I are going to the "Pensacola Recreational Fisherman's Association" meeting tonight to talk about red snapper. The Meeting in Tallahassee is just a week away!


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## Realtor

Matt Mcleod said:


> Chris and I are going to the "Pensacola Recreational Fisherman's Association" meeting tonight to talk about red snapper. The Meeting in Tallahassee is just a week away!


where and what time is this tonight?


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## tank1949

Online CurrentSea said:


> Yes, I would support 100%. The recreational "catch" data is in no way accurate. Over the years, I've never been stopped and asked about my personal catch history nor have any of my fishing buddies for that matter. Anyone who fishes our waters/reefs knows that Red Snapper have become so overpopulated that targeting other species is becoming useless. I also believe this is harming our other species (ex. trigger) due to the aggressiveness of RS. I worry that I will not be able to pass on such a great hobby and bonding experience with my two children due to tighter and tighter regulations. Considering the costs and investment it takes to fish offshore, at what point do the rec fishermen and tackle shops break?


 

AMEN!!!!! Fire all at the federal level. They are useless as tits on a bull! America is broke and the few of us who still can afford to fish have to put up with ever increasing fees, taxes and idiots in DC telling us how to run our live. I have a 29' boat that cost me at least 2 grand a year on maintence, taxes, insurance, and other BS fees. Now, add 3.50 a gal and sime DC bureacrate telling me how I need to gove more to the poor or some commercial fisherman, who bribes the same DC crooks to look the other way, just make me made as hell!


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## Chet88

So whats the final verdict? 45 Days State I know but have the Feds said for certain on the Fed Season? 21 Days?


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## Tyler Massey

As far as I know it's 44 days state waters and 21 days in federal both starting on June 1st.


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## Harbison

The length of the ARS season in federal waters has not been set. Florida going noncompliant will help only Northern Florida. We in Central Florida have NO red snapper in state waters. Regardless, the feds had to be put in their place. NOAA, in the quest for shares/separation is destroying all of fishing. A message had to be sent. There is a strong move on now to push state waters out to 120'. We have had enough & are not going to take it anymore. Bob H.


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## snookman

Has been this way for years? I always did flats fishing down south ( clearwater) most of my life with very few deep sea trips. now that I am getting into gulf fishing, it seems rules are all over the place on limits on the red snapper and nobody's real sure. seems like a real risk to fish for them and hope the officer is up to date as well on the rules.


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## J0nesi

ok can someone please tell me why they regulate red snapper the way they do. it honestly does not make any sence to me to have a couple week season for a specific fish. to me it doesnt taste any better than anyother fish. its not a fighting fish like king, wahoo or a bill fish. i really dont care to try and catch one cause you got so many regulations on it.


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## Harbison

The American red snapper, along with gag & black grouper, are for many the premier fishes of the Gulf. NOAA is hell bent on shoving shares/separation down the throats of the American people. A healthy fishery does not prove the need for this very restrictive version of 'Paid Fishing.' Therefor, NOAA is attacking these high profile species by declaring them to be so over-fished that very restrictive regulations are needed. Lubchenco, once head of NOAA, said that without catch shares our oceans would soon be seas of nothing but jellyfish. We who actually fish know differently. Often it's next to impossible to get away from the 'endangered' American red snapper & gag grouper. Lubchenco is now 'extinct.' Hopefully someone not tied to EDF or Pew will replace her. Florida has told the feds what they can do with their next to NO red snapper season. There is a very strong effort by such as our own Rep. Southerland to extend the state waters to 120.' Florida is telling the fed we have had enough & are not going to take it anymore. Bob H.


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## snookman

Harbison said:


> The American red snapper, along with gag & black grouper, are for many the premier fishes of the Gulf. NOAA is hell bent on shoving shares/separation down the throats of the American people. A healthy fishery does not prove the need for this very restrictive version of 'Paid Fishing.' Therefor, NOAA is attacking these high profile species by declaring them to be so over-fished that very restrictive regulations are needed. Lubchenco, once head of NOAA, said that without catch shares our oceans would soon be seas of nothing but jellyfish. We who actually fish know differently. Often it's next to impossible to get away from the 'endangered' American red snapper & gag grouper. Lubchenco is now 'extinct.' Hopefully someone not tied to EDF or Pew will replace her. Florida has told the feds what they can do with their next to NO red snapper season. There is a very strong effort by such as our own Rep. Southerland to extend the state waters to 120.' Florida is telling the fed we have had enough & are not going to take it anymore. Bob H.


I never had fresh grouper but more of store bought or a sandwich deal.I just enjoy fishing and like fresh fish.I have had snook, reds, spotted trout and white trout, flounder most bay fish but now I want to try the gulf. I have been reading this thread and understand people points very well. I have had mackerel but never a king so this is going to be neat to try fish that was bought most of my life. Good luck guys


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## Harbison

Before starting my offshore career in the late sixties I fished inshore for many years. It's great! Inshore fish are fun to catch & fine eating. I miss it. However, for many years now I have been offshore fishing. It's also great! Fresh caught grouper, mangrove, red, vermillion, and yellow tail snapper are excellent. The rules are indeed ridiculous. The grip NOAA has over our fishery must be broken. NO fish, be it inshore or offshore is safe from NOAA law. 
As far as king fish goes, they are very similar to mackerel. Best! Bob


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## snookman

Thanks Bob. Its totally different up here than down south. even with the tides. Its learning all over again. lol


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## Harbison

I find this forum to be an excellent learning tool. I love to hear what fishing all over our great country is like. I post on & follow fishing as far NE as New Jersey, Maryland, and as far NW as Washington state. It's now 2:30 A.M. I have been on his computer for hours following & writing about fishing. It's in my blood. Thank you for taking the time to interact with a sport that means so very much to so many of us. Bob H.


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## Chapman5011

Until we fight back this crappy government that some on here voted for and defend will keep on getting bigger and strong. America the free is the most regulated nation in the world. I wish they would just leave my fishing alone


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## Harbison

:furious: 
Until we unite and decide it's time to fight back the feds are not going to "_just leave my fishing alone" "America the free"_ is controlled by the almighty dollar. 
We, the peoples of this country are by far the majority; however, we, through apathy, are allowing a very small minority to completely control us. The likes of EDF, Pew, Walton foundation, just to name a few, are very rich & united. However, they would be nothing compared to a united American people. We can't even get 10% of our sportsmen to stand up & fight for our, or what was one out, sport. The time to fight is NOW. We should all be writing our elected officials demanding that they do the job for which we elected them. Represent the American people, not the big $$$ special interest groups. Join the RFA, fight back. Bob H. :thumbsup:


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## Harbison

The 'scam' must be reversed!

The system has been rigged since the 2006 hijack of Magnuson, designed to intentionally reduce our fishing days in an attempt to coerce us into accepting their catch share BS. They want to *EXPAND* that cash cow into the recreational fisheries and *THAT* is what all of this is about. Nothing more, nothing less. The health of the fisheries and the well-being of our coastal communities and fishermen have absolutely NOTHING to do with it. The NMFS needs to be de-funded and the control and management of our fisheries handed over to the states where they belong, as this scam has revealed them for what they are (hint: and it's NOT competent fisheries managers). Captain Thomas J. Hilton


Reps Bonner & Southerland have introduced a bill into the house & senate that would turn the regulation making power of reef fish over to each of the five Gulf states out to 120'. 
This bill deserves the support of everyone interested in free access to our fishery. In addition, MSA must be amended to give much needed flexibility. The 'scam' must be reversed! Bob Harbison


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## redstripe

Lest we not forget that Dubyah signed MSA into law. It's a bipartisan CF.


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## Harbison

The original intent of MSA was to help the fisherman & fishing communities. On the water real data from real fishermen, scientist, was to be used. Enter the EDF, Pew re-write 2006, Enter absolutely NO flexibility, enter the drive for shares/separation, enter PAID fishing.


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