# Kel Tec are you kidding me ???



## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

So what is the deal with Kel Tec ????? I have always heard they were POS's, but I see people selling them for top dollar on here and people snatching them up as soon as they come up for sale. My brother lives down in Cocoa where they are made and says no one will touch them down there.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

They have a niche market.... Good guns if you are willing to buff and polish the internals. The reason for the price spike is that they have some products that are different enough from the main stream to be intresting.....and they are SLOW to produce them..... the rest is supply and demand:whistling:


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## PompChaser315 (Feb 18, 2011)

I've had a p32 as well as a P3AT in the past and they were both great guns, no probs whatsoever.. Some people are just snobs and if a gun isn't over $400 they will just turn their nose up at it..


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## Andros Jim (Sep 14, 2011)

I had a .32 and it was in the pocket of my shorts for years. It was light and fired every time I wanted it to.


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## aaronious45 (Dec 15, 2011)

I know a lot of people with the pf9's and love them!


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## KILOEASY (Jul 20, 2011)

*Kel-tecs*



ccc said:


> so what is the deal with kel tec ????? I have always heard they were pos's, but i see people selling them for top dollar on here and people snatching them up as soon as they come up for sale. My brother lives down in cocoa where they are made and says no one will touch them down there.


i,ve had two pf-9,s for several years-both have been trouble free and accurate enough to carry.only my glocks have a better track record.luck aside,i love these little guys.kilo


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## LITECATCH (Oct 2, 2007)

I shot both of mine today. .380 and the 9mm PF9. Wonderful carry guns. Flawless. Don't believe everything you read.


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## LITECATCH (Oct 2, 2007)

I hate to say it,,,,, but,,,,,, i am more accurate with my Kel-Tec's than my Glocks of the same size. I still love my Glocks though.


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## The Pitt (Apr 7, 2012)

I have a P11. Took some practice with the long double action trigger but it cycles everything well and goes bang every time.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (My Phone)

I have or have had a total of 7 Kel-Tec's and have had nothing but good luck with every one so far. I only sale them to fund other gun purchases. I like them as a carry gun or to leave in my truck.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

George Kelgren, the owner of Kel-Tec -- is a brilliant and innovative gun designer. He cut his teeth back with the failed Grendel firearms, designing both handguns and carbines. We can thank George -- and Kel Tec -- with the plethra of small high capacity pistols as well as pocket pistols.

In 1995 -- during the middle of the assault weapon ban that limited handgun magazines to 10 rounds -- Kel Tec introduced the P-11 pistol in 9mm. At the time, it was the smallest high capacity 9mm pistol to hit the market.

It was so popular, that Glock quickly took notice and introduced the much heavier G26. Most other firearms manufacturers jumped on board and began maximizing the 10-round handgun magazine limitation by designing and producing smaller handguns around the smaller magazines. About this time also, many states began to adopt "shall issue" concealed firearms permit/license laws. These two developments were the "perfect storm" of sorts for the development and marketing of small semi-auto handguns with the armed citizen in mind.

In many ways, we can actually *thank* the Clinton AWB for providing the impetus for firearms manufacturers to focus efforts on the armed civilian and away from the military and police as their primary line of business.

As more and more average law abiding citizens desired to take advantage of the new found freedoms provided by the trend of increased states with carry laws -- many wanted something smaller than what was available in these subcompact pistols designed to be carried IWB or in a belt holster.

Once again, George Kelgren cut the trail in the firearms wilderness for the next development (and cash cow) for the firearms manufactures -- the *pocket pistol.*

Kel-tec introduced the P-32, a small lightweight pocket pistol in 32ACP. It was the lightest pistol available in anything larger than .22 caliber at the time. I remember my quest to buy one of the first P-32s that came out of the factory. Prior to that time, I had been carrying a North American Arms Mini-Mag in 22 WMR as a daily carry CCW. The new addition of the 32 ACP P-32 -- loaded with the Winchester Silvertips initially introduced to feed the high end and expensive at the time Seecamp pistol -- the P-32 was a hugh step up from a .22 self defense handgun.

A few years later, Kel-tec upped the ante again when they introduced the P-3AT in .380 ACP in a package only slightly larger and heavier than the P-32. The .380 ACP had long been considered by most shooters and law enforcement personnel as the minimum in a self defense cartridge. Having a small and lightweight pistol at a very affordable price point chambered in 380 ACP available sent the demand for the little P-3AT through the roof. Kel-tec expanded and struggled to keep up with demand.

Other manufacturers ramped up for their own pocket pistols. Only in recent years have the largest manufacturers jumped on board to include Smith & Wesson, SigArms, and Ruger. Most notably was Ruger -- who essentially copied George Kelgren's designs by introducing the LCP and the LC9.

So, I think that Kel-Tec and George Kelgren have earned their place as a respected firearms company and designer. George continues to be an innovative designer -- with the likes of the BFR and the KSG, both of which have a high demand with somewhat low supply (possibly by design). I also note that these latest offerings from Kel-Tec now come with "Patent Pending" marked on them -- whereas previously Mr. Kelgren did not patent his designs, and actually told me at the 2007 SHOT Show that he considered others copying his work as the ultimate compliment. I think Ruger's windfall in profits from the sale of the LCP and LC9 may have changed George's outlook on design copy a bit...

I've owned many Kel-Tecs over the years -- and they were all effective firearms. Some required a little "fluff and buff" to make reliable -- but I actually enjoyed the process and the feeling that I had helped in making a reliable pocket pistol for myself. I've since sold or traded off all of my Kel-Tec products in favor of other items -- but I still have an eye on Kel-Tec, and certainly hope to obtain a KSG for myself when (if) the supply ever reached the point where the price gouging by retailers ends.

I've enjoyed touring the Kel-Tec factory -- and becoming a "forum friend" with Marty (aka Bloodwalker) who was one of the main Kel-Tec gunsmiths years ago. Through that friendship, I had an opportunity to own a few "prototype" Kel-tecs that weren't ever released to the public. I've lost touch with Marty over the years, and I'm not even sure that he is still with the company as it has grown -- as well as has had competitors pop up literally down the street from their location.

Personally, I attribute the mass production and the refinement of pocket pistols -- as well as sub-compact pistols -- suitable for the average citizen with a CWL to own and carry concealed today to George Kelgren and his work.

One thing that we do know for sure -- the Kel-Tec PF9 was good enough to do the job for George Zimmerman when his head was being bashed into the concrete sidewalk in Sanford, FL...


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## Sailing_Faith (Mar 11, 2009)

LITECATCH said:


> I shot both of mine today. .380 and the 9mm PF9. Wonderful carry guns. Flawless. *Don't believe everything you read.*


Much wisdom this post... :thumbup:


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## Longbow14 (Aug 8, 2011)

I don't own one but as a beginning firearms collector guns like Kel-tec are marketed to guys like me. they're cheap and durable (up for debate). not to mention i'm always happy to see a new(er) company in the mass of 1911s and Glocks. It's america and i'm happy to see a Floridian company making guns.


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## Clayjunky (Feb 17, 2010)

I have a tricked out SU16B, it's my truck gun and I find myself taking it out every chance I can. I shoot wolf HP crap ammo and it gobbles em up. Love it, plus it folds in half and fits in my pack. My experience, most Kel Tec haters have never picked one up, let alone shot one. It's just a popular band-wagon for some reason.


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## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

I've got the SU-16C carbine and love it. It is light, can be shot folded in half, and takes standard ar-15 mags. It's a gas piston system which runs cleaner than a standard ar-15 DI gas system to boot. Not saying it's better than an ar-15 but it holds it's own against the entry-level polymer ar-15s. Kel-Tec is an innovator if you ask me. They design and build some pretty cool stuff that nobody else is really doing. I hope to get a pmr-30 if the demand ever subsides.


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## FlFrayedKnot (Feb 15, 2009)

I have a Sub2000, Glock 17 grip, and if has been an accurate and dependable shooter. It is a carbine that shoots nine millimeter and folds IN HALF! How awesome is that?


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

Kel-Tec is quite innovative in design, but the execution of their products is flawed. The quality control isn't that great. I've seen good Kel-Tecs and I've seen bad ones.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Gravity3694 said:


> The quality control isn't that great. I've seen good Kel-Tecs and I've seen bad ones.


I've seen the same from S&W... The last three new revolvers I bought had to go back - two before they fired a shot, and they were from the performance center!


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## PompChaser315 (Feb 18, 2011)

FlFrayedKnot said:


> I have a Sub2000, Glock 17 grip, and if has been an accurate and dependable shooter. It is a carbine that shoots nine millimeter and folds IN HALF! How awesome is that?


When you're ready to sell that thing lemme know :thumbup:


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## collectorden (Jun 2, 2011)

scubapro said:


> I've seen the same from S&W... The last three new revolvers I bought had to go back - two before they fired a shot, and they were from the performance center!


+1 on S&W quality, mine had to be repaced after 1 trip to the range.


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*Kel-T*

Some gripe about the long trigger pull....I like it. it is a safety feature that allows me to carry right next to the family jewels.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

Andros Jim said:


> I had a .32 and it was in the pocket of my shorts for years. It was light and fired every time I wanted it to.


*I have 2 PMR 30's , a PF9, and a PLR16 and all of them are great weapons and never fail to Fire. Love em. Great Customer service also.*


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## Miami Matt (Jun 20, 2009)

I have heard many say the warranty only covers the origional owner, that is enough for me to not buy,but then again perhaps i am ill informed.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Miami Matt said:


> I have heard many say the warranty only covers the origional owner, that is enough for me to not buy,but then again perhaps i am ill informed.


 Thats true. I Emailed Keltec when my sub2000's front sight FELL OFF!!! ...seems that the red threadlock that they glue it on with desolves in the stuff most people use to CLEAN their guns! ...anyway, KT , just said that that was intresting, the would pass that alone to their gunsmiths, and that if I wanted it fixed It would cost $120 + shipping. Since I am the second owner of the firearm, there is NO warranty.
Oh , Well, I am better off with an aftermarket sight (Redlion) anyway....waybetter than the plastic KT version.
KT has some neat stuff, but many times there are a few parts of the gun that should have gotten some more attention in the design/build stage.


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## FlFrayedKnot (Feb 15, 2009)

FUPAGUNT said:


> When you're ready to sell that thing lemme know :thumbup:


Best get to hunting one, it is a keeper....although; if you find one in Glock 19 grip I might sway the Glock17 grip for that! 

I am thinking about trimming the grip back to G19 size, but just have not gotten round to it.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

FUPAGUNT said:


> When you're ready to sell that thing lemme know :thumbup:


I saw 2 at Jays Gun last week if your really looking,think one was a glock 40 didn't look at the other one.think they are 399.00.Both were black.:yes:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

CDNN has the Sub2000 in either 9mm or 40 S&W Glock format for $299.99 Get it shipped in to Dixie and you'll pay no sales tax either!

1-800-588-8500

For those wanting the PMR-30s -- they have them listed for $299.99 as well...


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## collectorden (Jun 2, 2011)

scubapro said:


> For those wanting the PMR-30s -- they have them listed for $299.99 as well...


I had called on these. They are on backorder with no forecast of when they will get them.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

I called last week after ordering my upper about the sub 2000 and was told they didn't have them or know when they would.


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