# Fall Red Snapper Season



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Don't get your hopes up!


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## Captain Mickey O'Reilly (Dec 18, 2008)

What's up now?


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

Saw something to that effect in "mini snapper season " thread


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Same ole same ole. We overfished, blah, blah, blah……… Even with the stock increase we're probably going to never see over 28 days.

I would love to know how many fish they think my boat caught, or they estimated I caught Im sure there is no way to ever find that data out.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Total crock of BS.

Every state needs to pull out of the MRIP scam, as Louisiana has already done. Take control of your own data - it's the only answer to this madness.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

FYI , Just heard the head boat coop was approved by NOAA.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Rules....Rules....What rules? Rules are only suggestions best I can tell. Really I prefer other fish to Snapper but they are fun to catch, photograph and send to your friends who can't be here to fish for them. Give me a flounder, redfish, grouper, sheephead, spec., mingo, wahoo, sword, or a fresh spanish or mullet ahead of a ARS any day. Better yet 1# of picked out crabmeat!


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

It's not about red snapper - it's about every single federally-managed fish out there.

Perhaps the states can still stop this - it is, after all, their state waters and state ports that these federally-permitted vessels must travel to get to land. If the states prohibit any form of recreational catch shares landing at their ports, I don't see what the feds could do about it.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Tom Hilton said:


> It's not about red snapper - it's about every single federally-managed fish out there.
> 
> Perhaps the states can still stop this - it is, after all, their state waters and state ports that these federally-permitted vessels must travel to get to land. If the states prohibit any form of recreational catch shares landing at their ports, I don't see what the feds could do about it.


 Mr. Hilton, Sorry tongue in cheek responce. I know I am just fed up with the whole thing and don't know what we can do and most of us regular rec fishermen don't either.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Damn Tom Hilton, you truly are against any charter boat out there aren't you. What's your hard on? Don't like free beer?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> FYI , Just heard the head boat coop was approved by NOAA.


Tom A

What does this entail? Is it the days at sea.pilot or.a true coop?


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> Damn Tom Hilton, you truly are against any charter boat out there aren't you. What's your hard on? Don't like free beer?



???


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Cfa supporter


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

It just seems that you drone on and on and on about the evil charter boat captains and how they are out to get us or something. I mean Jesus man do you check your closet at night for a charter boat captain before you go to bed or what? 

And last I read Fairwater invited you for a beer and you turned it down


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> Tom A
> 
> What does this entail? Is it the days at sea.pilot or.a true coop?


At this point I have no idea, but it sounds like good news for the head boats and there pilot program.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

I know the snapper are a money maker for those that do it for a living. And I hate that. But I'm sick and tired of all the hoop la about a fish. The Feds are involved and they will ruin a good thing we have. Just look at what they have done to America. It has gone to shit in the big picture and that is exactly what the end will be with our fishing. 
You can't beat the Feds. You can try, but they will always win in the end. 

I would love to see it work out, but it will not. So I have quit worrying about the damn snapper and have moved on to Bigger and Better fish. I just go a little farther turn on some good tunes for the hour drive out. 

I used to worry me self sick over this red snapper debate and I'm done. 

I hate that in the end they the Feds will ruin one more thing in this country. 

Welcome to America . They say America the free. NO MORE......
America is the most regulated nation in the entire world. And over the last four years, I have lost a lot of respect for this Nation . It's very sad to watch something crumble. And eventually it will. The nation, the currency, our life as we know it will crumble right before your eyes.

Sorry for the rant. The snapper argument is just one more thing they have destroyed. 


Happy fishing. 
To hell with the red snapper.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

"merica"!!!


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

Chapman5011 said:


> So I have quit worrying about the damn snapper and have moved on to Bigger and Better fish. I just go a little farther turn on some good tunes for the hour drive out.


Well you have completely missed the point! Its snapper now and your "Bigger and Better fish" later. :whistling:

I really don't care about ARS. I kept exactly 0 this year that I can remember and dont get all that excited over bottom fishing in general. However, I understand the importance of the fishery and each fish as part of the fishery.


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## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> Cfa supporter


 
Bingo


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Update? When will we know?


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## ironman172 (Sep 28, 2007)

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/08/fall_red_snapper_season_in_dou.html


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## MrPhoShiz (Sep 22, 2010)

when has alabama ever had their shit straight?


jk this would suck ive already taken a week off in october for fishing...


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## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

I have to agree with Cpt. Hilton on this issue. I have zero issues with the charter boats they are just trying to make a living and while a few have sided with the commercial industry I think most know that they will be the next to go down. I never was checked for my count but then again I had very little to count I do know some that literally brought in a boatload. Maybe we need to make the general public aware of the potentially high mercury count and other heavy metals, you know scare them int not eating the fish in restaurants, kill the commercial fishing industry then we can get back to the good old days.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> It just seems that you drone on and on and on about the evil charter boat captains and how they are out to get us or something. I mean Jesus man do you check your closet at night for a charter boat captain before you go to bed or what?
> 
> And last I read Fairwater invited you for a beer and you turned it down


I don't have anything against charter captains - In fact, I have many who are subscribers to my service and I am fighting for them. I am against certain captains (CFA) who are working as front men for an environmental corporation to convert our Public Trust Resource (fish stocks) into commodities (like Wall street stocks). These goons couldn't care less about how their actions would affect other Gulf recreational fishermen - it's all about the $$$ that comes with this conversion.

The CFA leaders over here in Texas are pushing for regionalization because it contains Sector Separation and are ignoring the fact that the numbers show that the Texas charter fleet supposedly caught 39,000 pounds in 2012. That's enough snapper for 16 boats to fish 30 days - what about the other 180+ charter boats here in Texas? What about them? If they go to regionalization using these numbers, reality will hit the wall next year as the feds will claim that we overfished our Texas quota - with the payback provisions, the feds will have the power to reduce the Texas quota for the following year by the amount of any supposed overages, until there is no longer any season at all.

Alabama's % looks to be about 30%, despite the numbers showing that they have been responsible for about 42% of the snapper over the last few years. Same thing will happen there, with ever-shortening seasons using bogus science to justify it. I find it appalling that the Alabama DNR is apparently supporting the scheme to privatize our Public Trust Resources - Kevin Anson suggested that the Council insert the provision for recreational IFQs in the Amendment 39 document. Disgusting that a person working as a steward of our Public Trust Resource is pushing for this privatization scheme - I wonder if the People of Alabama are aware of this?

One item on the GC agenda is to change the allocation % from 49% recreational/51% commercial to give the recreational sector a larger % of the allocation. The CFA leadership (Capt Ard and his buddies) has gone on record multiple times opposing any reduction of the commercial %. What? I thought their customers were *RECREATIONAL* fishermen - why would they rail against a policy change that would be in the best interests of their own clients? Just goes to show that these goons are simply following the script laid out for them by their enviro benefactors (I think CFA has received over $250,000 from the Environmental Defense Fund Corporation so far).

It's time for all Gulf recreational fishermen, including those who fish aboard charter vessels, to stand up against this assault on our children's and grandchildren's fishing future.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

The CFA leaders over here in Texas are pushing for regionalization "Incorrect" Regional Management would kill the CFH fleet, because of the State of Texas under reporting of catch numbers over the last 10 years. CFA has been trying to kill regional management from the start. 

The CFA will be going after exactly what the Head Boat Coop just got. A flexible IFQ management plan, even tho its just a 2 year pilot you will see that it will be very successful. The CFH IFQ pilot will follow right behind the head boat pilot. As soon as all the CFH gets to watch the head boats have the ability to catch red snapper whenever they want and have the ability to catch as few as they want on a trip to stretch out there days I have a feeling that you will see everyone in the charter boat fleet jump on board, actually most all of the Alabama fleet, including dolphin island are already on board. 

As for me I could care less about having the ability to actually own anything, I just want the ability to take the fish that I already catch and have been catching for over 20 years and have the flexibly to use them whenever I want. This will prevent derby fishing, waste, and overfishing from my boat. This will also stretch out the days I have to fish because %90 of my customers are tourist and have no need for 300 pounds of red snapper with no place to keep it. I will be able to kill just what they want to eat while there on vacation and in turn will give many more vacationers the ability to catch and eat a red snapper while there here because my available days to kill a red snapper will double or even triple even tho my actual catches of red snapper at the dock will go down dramatically. It will also give an accurate count of what gets killed on my boat, because I will know exactly how many I have to catch and when I catch them all I will stop. The program will have the flexibility for charter guys like Mike Jennings in Texas with his center console to be able to pick good weather days and not crush himself or his customers just to catch a red snapper. It will have the flexibility for the larger fleet that specializes in over night trips to catch red snapper if they need them, lets say the tunas bite good well they don't need any other fish so they just come on in, but lets say they don't bite, they have the ability to use there Red Snapper to make there trip.

In MSA there are three sectors recognized. Commercial, Recreational, and CFH. We are already separate and all three sectors have different needs, its time to get off this 30 year old management plan and start a new. 

I know your going to bring up science, data and all that. Im with ya it sucks and they should all be fired for the job NMFS has done with it. This last debacle with the fall season just makes me what to go off, what a cluster F.


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

"As for me I could care less about having the ability to actually own anything, I just want the ability to take the fish that I already catch and have been catching for over 20 years and have the flexibly to use them whenever I want. This will prevent derby fishing, waste, and overfishing from my boat"---Tom don't you think just about every rec. fisherman wants this. Just because you own a charter business , in my eyes , should not be the determining factor on who gets to fish and who does not. I understand your frustrations , but in the real world they are no different than mine or anyone else. .


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Tom A,

Don't take a whizz on us and tell us its raining....

The actions the CFA is pushing in concert with EDF are going to change the face of reef fishing in the Gulf forever for the good of a few and at the expense of many.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Here's the transcript from Scott Hickman - CFA/EDF independent contractor (I wonder if Hickman gets a 1099 from EDF directly, or indirectly through CFA for his work that he does for them);

*"Scott Hickman *- Charter Captain; Circle H Charters
One size fits all management doesn’t work in the Gulf of Mexico. He would rather fish red snapper in the fall, and he supports regional management on a state-by–state level so that they have the authority to come up with their own system under the federal quota and federal accountability measures. *Regional management will allow us to get to the accountable fishery quicker than the federal fishery would allow. *The status quo system does not work; 27 days is ridiculous, and Texas may as well not have a federal season with the bad weather. Texas Parks and Wildlife could do better for their fishermen and he applauds the Council for trying to give the recreational fishermen a solution."

Funny - sure sounds like he is *ALL FOR *regional management. Also, haven't heard a peep from him, Jennings, or ANY other CFA/EDF independent contractor regarding Texas' data deficiencies. I was there.

Tying your permit to the cooperative, which is guaranteed a % of our fish, provides exclusive access to our fish not available to the average Joe fisherman. This exclusive access is the commodity that is tied to your permit, which increases the value of your permit, that you own. You therefore would "own" the access to the fish.

This is all in line with the EDF Plan - here it is, straight from the whore's, uh I mean horse's mouth;

"The work we (EDF) are doing with a core group of for-hire recreational fishermen, whose movement we helped develop and continue to support, called SOS (Save Our Sector - *NOW CFA*), *will be important to continue to move catch shares forward in the for-hire sector of the recreational red snapper fishery.* SOS now has over 200 supporters across all five Gulf states. This membership, which includes boat owners and crew members, reflects a significant portion of the 1,100 licenses in the for-hire fleet. The group's work was a key factor in the Gulf Council's October decision to consider separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler sectors in the generic Annual Catch Limit/Accountability Measures amendment, which will be subject to public hearings in either December or January and likely voted on next summer. *The amendment will form the foundation for a for-hire IFQ and harvest tags for private anglers*."

This CFH "cooperative" is simply a step in that direction, and the CFA is simply as EDF's agents to get it done. How much money has EDF given CFA? $200,000? $400,000? 

If the CFH guys are willing to lease our Public Trust Resource from the commercial fat cats through inter-sector trading, they should also be willing to lease the fish directly from the government for the privilege of profiting off of our Public Trust Resource. Paying the government $3.5/pound for resource rent so that you would then have the right to make a profit off of our Public Trust Resource should be a requirement if this cooperative goes forward.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

1. Regional Management Is not going to fly you can count on that. 2. Right now I am in no way in support of inter-sector trading of snapper, now there are CFA Members that are but I am not. I don't feel we should lease from anyone. Now if one day I have to and there are people that will pay well then I guess we will go fishing, but I don't support it. Intersector trading might help other CFH boats in other states but not mine. 3. Did Scott say this at the last meeting? If so I am surprised, also he is a member but not a voting member of CFA but I soon will be. 4. I will be helping with the CFH IFQ fish management plan for the future that will look a lot like the head boat plan. 5. I along with other OBFA board members helped with the Alabama IFQ pilot program, a program that the state is in full support of and is actually a big part in helping to form. 0 help with EDF there. 6. Some better way of actually having real time accountability of whats getting caught has to happen, I personally don't see where a tag system for recreational fisherman is that bad of a plan. It sure is working fine with yellowfin tuna in Louisiana, and redfish in Texas.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Louisiana's Offshore Landings Permit is working well - it provides much better data, and it doesn't EXCLUDE participants nor does it gift away access to our Public Trust Resource.

All you have to do is look up in the NE what EDF-funded front groups have already done with their "cooperatives" - they are trying to implement these "not-so-new-and-novel-approaches" here in the Gulf.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> 1. 4. I will be helping with the CFH IFQ fish management plan for the future that will look a lot like the head boat plan.


Good luck Mr. Ard, I will be doing everything in my power to stop you.


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

The day I have to pay a boat to take me snapper fishing is the day I quit offshore fishing forever!!!


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

The question always foremost in my mind is how can private business enterprises end up "owning" a public resource?


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## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

I understand the problems the short season is causing the CFH and I also believe there is a high fishing mortality from snapper bycatch and high grading-----but how can it be fair to "give" one segment of the fishery to a select group simply because they fished.

I have averaged 300 lbs of snapper for the last 10 seasons. So why shouldn't I have the allocation to catch, barter, sell or bequeath to my son?

There is a socialistic element to catch shares that goes against my grain---I think this is something that needs to be addressed by the courts.

The data is another issue. There is insufficient sample size for both the effort (phone survey) and dock side intercept survey. That is obvious from the large PSE, which by the way likely only captures a portion of the errors. Maybe the only solution would be rotating closure of large areas bottom---Know there is a lot of opposition to that idea but this 28 day season is bad for the fisherman and bad for the fish.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Could if be our federal government fish managers are using their data which to keep reducing the fishing seasons and reflecting recreational catch yearly overuns in order to drive a catch share policy?.

I mean ultimately it results in less work for them if only a few are fishing 
In a locked down catch share system with strict reporting requirements. Meanwhile the catch share holders (survivors of the fleet consolidation) are happy to testify in court if necessary on the benefits of the catch share system, the politicians are satisfied in that the environmental deep pocket lobby money is flowing, and the environmental groups are happy because their are less fisherman on the water. Meanwhile the private citizen fisherman's desires are left by the wayside in the political process. Well I guess the private boat owner can leave his boat parked and collecting rust and climb on a catch share holding charter boat. I can hear the pitch now. We can go fishing if you just want to catch something, but if you want to keep a red snapper that will be an extra $7.00 a pound per fish to keep one that there is a "federally managed species", now if you want to catch and keep grouoer that fish is a special fish its good eating. Cost you an extra extra $15.00 a pound per fish to keep one of those. Haha I will die before I climb on a boat like that..


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## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

May be wrong but don't think they are dishonest or have a hidden agenda. But I do think they are naïve in statistics and experimental design. I also think they have written off the recreational fisherman because we are so f----g angry and we are unorganized.

They are also trying to make decisions with a very limited understanding of the science. We can't tell if the explosion in snapper population is due to high year class, reduced shrimping effort, change in long line practice, growth of artificial reefs or regulatory changes.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

May be true but we have good reason to be so f----g angry in my opinion...

The representation for the private recreational fishing stake holder group on the voting membership of gulf council seems to be minimal.

NFS invites Environmental Defense Fund lawyers to conduct catch share workshops....

NFS and the Gulf Council holds public meetings and takes email comments from the public on what they would like to see and when the overwhelming majority of the public input is against a certain policy NFS/Gulf council implements that very policy anyway despite it being against what the public desires....


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

There is only one true answer to the problem, and I can not believe that no one is discussing it. None of these programs will ever work. wild fish are a public resource and no one should have the right to buy or sell them or catch shares !
All these programs are doing is keeping the fighting going between the different groups !
Make snapper a game fish, get ACCURATE data for setting the creel limit, there are several ways to get accurate catch data, take for example telechecking your deer, it has been proven to be very accurate for different states deer havest data.
Just look at Alabama, you now have to telecheck all deer starting this year, and all of the other states in the midwest, I have hunted, use this same system
Making snapper a game fish will take the politics and money out of the game.
And it is all about the money in the end. BOTTOM LINE


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this but Snapper season is always open. Just throw them back, you dont have to sink the boat with snapper to have a good time. Practice a little Catch and release, there are plenty of other fish to take home that you will catch on any outing. 

Just saying...


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

No boat should own catch shares or IFQs, Your creel limits get onboard with your fishing buddies or clients !


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Outlaw way?


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

Markw4321 you are correct about our representation on the council. It especially seems that Johnny Greene and Kevin Anson do not give a rats azz about the private rec. Just concerned about IFQ, sector separation , and iter sector trading.Every thing most recs are against, they are pushing to implement.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Good point the way the council is set up the recreational representation includes charter captains that are for catch shares...


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

Believe me I have nothing against the charter industry , but I think some have gone over the line wanting "their" portion of the quota. Kinda funny when
Most of the dual permitted boats want inter sector trading, while most of the rest of the charter boats do not think that would be good while on the other hand they want their own IFQ 's for their own use. Some sort a decision will be made in the near future and I really do not it will be good for the private rec.


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## how2fish (Jan 21, 2008)

Ok this is a dumb question I know but I have to ask anyway....when will they make up their "minds" on the fall snapper season ?? Next week ,two weeks ???


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Heres the real question that no one seems to have an answer for. What will be good for the private Rec? As we can all see the statics quo fish management and MRIP data collection isn't working.

A lot on here, like myself are sick and tired of them telling us how many fish we have caught with there survey type counting system. This last count is absolutely crazy. Yea we caught 2 million more pounds in 28 days than we did last year in 44. Crazy

Its time to go to a redeemable tag system, or implement a system like Louisiana has. Like I said before I don't see whats so wrong with a tag system Texas is using it with redfish and Louisiana is using it with yellowfin tuna. Seems to be working fine.


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

The big problem is there is no real way to keep the recreational sector accountable for how many pounds they actually catch. Apparently by estimates the rec sector went over 1 million pounds in June alone.

There are so many people these days with boats hunting that stupid red snapper. To me its one of the dumbest and easiest fish to catch in the gulf. You can catch them on rope with a turd for bait.

Red Snapper has turned into a money grab. A politically and soon to be corrupt system where the little guys get left out.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

how2fish said:


> Ok this is a dumb question I know but I have to ask anyway....when will they make up their "minds" on the fall snapper season ?? Next week ,two weeks ???



From what I heard NMFS really screwed up there data collection numbers this year trying to make it better. I believe that they really over counted and have there ratios way out of wack. I heard its going to take a couple of weeks to try to sort things out. Its the definition of a cluster fuc. All the while the commercial guys with there real time accountability measures will get there 2 million pound bump and keep on keeping on.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

CatHunter said:


> The big problem is there is no real way to keep the recreational sector accountable for how many pounds they actually catch. Apparently by estimates the rec sector went over 1 million pounds in June alone.
> 
> There are so many people these days with boats hunting that stupid red snapper. To me its one of the dumbest and easiest fish to catch in the gulf. You can catch them on rope with a turd for bait.
> 
> Red Snapper has turned into a money grab. A politically and soon to be corrupt system where the little guys get left out.



Its very easy CatHunter, you make each fisherman account for what they catch. As it is right now, you are correct there is no way, but when you fill out that card and put that zip tie in there gills its done. Hey this way there will be no season and you can fish whenever you want.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

DI 310 said:


> Markw4321 you are correct about our representation on the council. It especially seems that Johnny Greene and Kevin Anson do not give a rats azz about the private rec. Just concerned about IFQ, sector separation , and iter sector trading.Every thing most recs are against, they are pushing to implement.



I have talked to Kevin Anson, and Chris blankenship in a meeting on Regional Management a couple months ago. What the state is concerned about two things Accountability and enforcement. They said that the Commercial is done, there working on the CFH and will let us help develop what we want, next will be the private rec. They didn't really go into what they had in mind about making the private rec., accountable, but its coming.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Well lets see 3million peoople living along the gulf coast trying to get hold of 320k red snapper tags issued annually. Have a better chance of drawing. A tag to shoot a Florida black panther in future years.

The people wlll fix this one day. Strip the Commercial fisherman of their gift and the charter for hire of theirs and send them on their way....


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> Well lets see 3million peoople living along the gulf coast trying to get hold of 320k red snapper tags issued annually. Have a better chance of drawing. A tag to shoot a Florida black panther in future years.
> 
> The people wlll fix this one day. Strip the Commercial fisherman of their gift and the charter for hire of theirs and send them on their way....



Yea thats going to happen.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

:thumbup:


Fairwaterfishing said:


> Its very easy CatHunter, you make each fisherman account for what they catch. As it is right now, you are correct there is no way, but when you fill out that card and put that zip tie in there gills its done. Hey this way there will be no season and you can fish whenever you want.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Yea thats going to happen.[/QUOTE
> 
> Which part? Black panther tags or the people taking action?
> 
> There are more than 3 million salwater anglers in florida alone. 8 lb snapper average X 320K fish equals 2.6 million pounds of fish. I mean you orange beach boys are still counting on taking one half if the recreational snapper tac right? With commercal already having 51 percent of the red snapper total tac. That leaves a 1/4 of the total allowable catch of red snapper to be issued in "tags" to everyone betwen brownsville Texas and Tampa Florida who desires to have a chance at a tag...


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

*Strip the Commercial fisherman of their gift and the charter for hire of theirs and send them on their way….*

This part. Remember I take people fishing that have JUST as much right as you. Oh yea the last I heard there was a consumer in this country that likes to eat red snapper, they have just as many rights as you also.

Like I said before the Private rec has no answers to give, just in denial of the situation. The private recreational representation RFA and CCA love to fight between themselves and agree on not agreeing on anything. Actually the more they can keep up scare tactics the more members they will add and the more money they will make.

I can understand that your scared to death the CFH is getting organized and working to fix our situation, and your groups are doing really nothing, but same ole same ole, beating your dead horse status quo fishery management. Oh yea and getting more fish does not fix anything in this management plan we are in right now, hell theres no way of even counting them correctly. We will be lucky to get 14 days next year like it is right now, hows that working for you?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Well we have always tried to get along Tom and I appreciate that, Have to admit I'm pissed and I took a cheap shot with the comment. 

That said Your coming off a little arrogant..at least to me. ..by the way ill take the 14 days before I would enter a lottery with a couple of million others to win a chance to keep one red snapper.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

ditto. I can be nice. I have no reason to argue, or sound like an ass.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

:thumbup:


Fairwaterfishing said:


> *Strip the Commercial fisherman of their gift and the charter for hire of theirs and send them on their way….*
> 
> This part. *Remember I take people fishing that have JUST as much right as you. Oh yea the last I heard there was a consumer in this country that likes to eat red snapper, they have just as many rights as you also.*
> 
> ...


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

CatHunter said:


> To me its one of the dumbest and easiest fish to catch in the gulf. You can catch them on rope with a turd for bait.


Wow, ironic that a catfish hunter would even think that, much less type it.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Red Snapper are not known for being a fish that takes stealth, experience and specific technique to catch. I used a KFC chicken leg (original recipe) for bait and caught a big sow. Next season I'm going to try a half a banana.


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## floorman1 (Jan 10, 2012)

*Lol!!*

:laughing::laughing:


Kim said:


> Red Snapper are not known for being a fish that takes stealth, experience and specific technique to catch. I used a KFC chicken leg (original recipe) for bait and caught a big sow. Next season I'm going to try a half a banana.


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## blkwtr (Oct 6, 2007)

Since red snapper are being over fished, why not treat them as we do redfish (red drum). Set a reasonable slot and daily bag limit. The protected red snapper should not be caught commercially.


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

"I can understand that your scared to death the CFH is getting organized and working to fix our situation, and your groups are doing really nothing, but same ole same ole, beating your dead horse status quo fishery management" 
This is the problem- your situation should be no different than my situation .You do not own a certain percentage of the fish , no more than I do. This is a public resource that everyone has a right to, not just a select few. What the council should be doing is working for all parties involved and all parties should be working together to get this cluster under control. Tom Ard, I know you are a member of the CFA, and I also know the EDF supports your group. Why would one want them to help anyway. They had a lot to do with the reauthorization of MSA in 2006. We probably would not be in this mess today if the council would have told them to take a hike years ago, now we have them still trying to control what is going on. The council even though receive thousands of comments against sector separation (IQF's) seems to be pushing forward. The sad part about all of this there is plenty of fish for everyone to fish several months out of the year, and we are here bitching and fighting among ourselves.


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## Berry (Mar 8, 2011)

Could we recreational fisherman file a class action suit or injunction to shut down red snapper fishing PERIOD both commercial and recreational until real science is applied. 

I have now and have held both an alabama and Florida saltwater license and want to demand that NOAA tell me how many snapper they counted me as catching and let's compare that to what I caught then move forward, and compare that to every salt water license in the gulf. Then only after we have that number and decide on % of TAC that has been caught and reopen red snapper for commercial and recreational guys.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

DI 310 said:


> "I can understand that your scared to death the CFH is getting organized and working to fix our situation, and your groups are doing really nothing, but same ole same ole, beating your dead horse status quo fishery management"
> This is the problem- your situation should be no different than my situation .You do not own a certain percentage of the fish , no more than I do. This is a public resource that everyone has a right to, not just a select few. What the council should be doing is working for all parties involved and all parties should be working together to get this cluster under control. Tom Ard, I know you are a member of the CFA, and I also know the EDF supports your group. Why would one want them to help anyway. They had a lot to do with the reauthorization of MSA in 2006. We probably would not be in this mess today if the council would have told them to take a hike years ago, now we have them still trying to control what is going on. The council even though receive thousands of comments against sector separation (IQF's) seems to be pushing forward. The sad part about all of this there is plenty of fish for everyone to fish several months out of the year, and *we are here bitching and fighting among ourselves.*


That is precisely what they want us to do. Separate us and then they win. Divide and conquer. United we stand, divided we fall. No side wins except the environmental wackos.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

Myself and probably most others with a boat down there have made a morning trip and an afternoon trip during snapper season. No one has ever asked me how many we caught. There is no way to judge the recreational fisherman. 
For one we mean nothing unless we broke a law and there is money to be gotten. So why are my fish not added to the result. That's why we mean nothing. They are just making up numbers. Exactly the same way Washington does things. Just lie about it and move on.


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