# Kayak Rods



## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

As some of you may know I build custom rods. I am not trying to sale any here, just looking for input.

Does fishing from a Kayak warrant a rod built specifically for it. I.E, shorter handle section, longer rod with a faster tip for casting. Just curious, I am thinking about designing a line of "Kayak" rods.

If you guy's and gal's would not mind helping out with some ideas I would greatly appreciate it.


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## true-king (Oct 2, 2007)

I've seen some kayak rods at boater's world. They look like a good idea, and they float.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Yeah, there are quite a few large companies that make them. ARS, Laguna, All-Star to name a few.

Iwould just like to add them to my collection.I don't have a yak to fish from so I really not sure if there is a need for a different type rod, or if that is just a marketing technique by the large companies. "Floating", now that's an awesome idea.

Just curious if you guys see a need, and if so what would you like to see different?


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## NICHOLAS (Oct 18, 2007)

Do those floating rods float with a reel on them?


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

> *NICHOLAS (7/31/2008)*Do those floating rods float with a reel on them?


That's a really good question. Hard to see how one could without an overwhelming amout of flotation.


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## true-king (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, I'm not sure if they float with a reel on them. I'll ask them about it next time I'm there.


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## SheYakFishr (Oct 1, 2007)

Brad... I use regular MEDIUM rods... with the shorter butts on them. Of course.. if you use one that is longer... it could fall out easier. It would be nice not to have to use velcro (which gets in my way most times)to hold the attached curly wiring that is attached by a quick release connector to the deck of the yak. I'm not sure how you could incorporate some kind of hook or connector to do the same thing... but it sure would be nice. :bowdown It would also be nice to be able to cast it out farther as I believe you have more leveragefrom a boat.I started replacing my older line with braid.. thinking that would help... and I HATE IT!!! :reallycrying It tangles up all over the reel and your done.. because you spend so much time trying to untangle it when you could be fishing. I'm redoing one tonight with ande line. :


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Awesome! So some how incorporated into the rod you would like a way to secure the rod to the Yak, without having to use velcro.

Do have have any problems with the shorter handled rods, is there a need for a longer butt section?

Also do Kayak rod holders have gimbal's in them? Would a small gimbal seat be of any value on lighter inshore type rods?


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## timman (Oct 3, 2007)

Brad,

I've been fishing from my kayak(s) for the past couple of years. I have a number of different rods/reels that I use - most of them conventional inshore outfits. My rods are in the 6 1/2 to 7 foot ranges. I have checked out some of the rods made for kayaks, and I think the two primary advantages are 1) shorter handles for ease of use in a more confined space (and usually shallower rod holders), and; 2) longer overall lengths so that you can work a fish around the front of the 'yak from a seated position. Also, the lighter the better inmy opinion.

The concept of a floating rod sounds intriguing, too. Anyway, just my .02 cents. There are many more experienced 'yak fishermen and women than Ithat prowl this forum - they should be able to give you alot of valuable input and ideas.

Good luck!


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Timman,

Thanks for the input, I was thinking rods in the 7' 6" range, with a soft tip and plenty of Back bone. Does this sound about right? Weight is easy to reduce by selecting the right components but it can also drive up the cost. I want to keep these priced where they will be really affordable for anyone. 

Also, on guides. Does the guide feet make much of a difference or is it purely preference. Would a double footed guide be better for wear and tear on a yak?

Thanks again for all the input!!!!!!!


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## SheYakFishr (Oct 1, 2007)

Brad.... I dunno if making the guides better would help. I've never broke any off the yak... at least not yet... lol But... I think I have broke one rod in half once... by the 3 mile bridge. lol Now I try only buying the one piece jobers. :doh Lighter would be better... and being able to get that sucker out would be good also AND clearing the front of the yak. 

My rod holders... well... I use a piece of pvc in each one to stablize and prop up the rod better. Hobie just makes them so deep... and they are pretty wide, so with using the pvc, it helps keep the rod inside the yak better. I mostly use a car cell phone charger to connect the rod to the yak. I cut off the ends... then loop and glue and then tape them... the velcro then runs through the first loop, which attaches it to the rod... then the other loop is hooked to an eyelet or the seat clip. A lot of times when I'm reeling it in... that loop gets twisted around the reel and then you have to stop to move it over. I really don't know what you could use to stop that and have a secure connector there and it stay out of the way. 

I love that cord that Capt'n Ken makes. I just don't have access to 300lb line. :doh In 10 years... I wouldn't use up hardly any. I need to start asking if anyone has any left over that isn't enough to use.


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## timman (Oct 3, 2007)

Brad,

Yeah, a 7to 7 1/2foot rodsounds about right. I fish mostly from my Hobie Mirage Sport. Itis a shorter kayak (it's just shy of 10 feet long), so I don't need the length that the majority of the 'yakkers out there need. Many of the more popular fishing 'yaks are over 12 feet long - some I've seen up to 16 feet long. The longer rod would definitely be an advantage to them. In some cases, an 8 foot rod might not be out of the question. I also agreethat fast action and strong backbone would be ideal.

As for the guides, I'm not really sure about that.I personally like the Fuji single foot on all my inshore rods because of the lighter weight - and they haveheld up fine 95% of the time.(I know that double foot guides aretypical on the offshore rods.) I haven't really found that I subject my rods to any more wear and tear on my kayak vs. my motor boat. Probably less because they only have a couple of places to call "home" on the 'yak. They tend to get moved around moreonmy motor boat. 

One thing you might take into considerationis the increasing use of braided line and the impact it has on the guide inserts. I know some of the newer quides have inserts that are designed towithstand the additional abrasiveness of the braided lines. But then again, I'm sure that all these little "improvements" will drive the cost up!

Anyway, good luck with the rods. Kayak fishing is definitely one of the (if not THE) fastest growing water sports around.I would imagine lots of opportunities are out there for specialization. Keep us posted - I might like to check out some of finished products!


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Thank you very much for the help!!!!!!:letsdrink

It's gonna be a few weeks before I can start on a prototype, so I will probably be asking more questions once i begin. Also are there any large Kayak events coming up in the next couple of months. I may want to donate a Prototype to the event to get some feedback and start spreading the word!!

Thanks again for all the help!!!!!


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## SheYakFishr (Oct 1, 2007)

That would be cool!!! The GCKFA big fishing tourney is in late spring... May - June. I'm sure one of the officers will see this thread and contact you.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Great, that gives me plenty of time to get it designed and ready!!!!!!


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

Most of my yak fishing is casting plugs and jigs. Short butt helps. Two piece rods work best for me because getting a loop from around the tip or a plug hooked up top is a lot easier to get to if you can disjoint the rod.

My biggest yak fish, 200# plus Tarpon,was caught on an Ambassadeur Record 60 with 20# spider wire. I tried to break the fish off before he got too tired and found out i couldn't break the 20# test. The rod I used was a 5'6" Spidercast rod that I paid about 5 bucks for at the Berkley Tackle Outlet in Spirit lake. My yak spinning rods are 6' 4-12# rated and I use cheap Daiwa reels. 

Really good tackle can get to be really bad tackle when used in a yak---lost too.

My "Big Gun" is a 6' Uglystick bait caster -about 6" of tip. I have a Shimano Bantam Mag 50 reel on it. I use this when Cobia are around and when casting poppers for big Grouper.

Of course, my yak is only 12' long and has a rudder for quick turns. Long rods make landing big fish to doggone hard.

Just my opinion but I catch a lot of fish from my yak.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Thank You Captken,

I appreciate the input.


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## JRG24 (Mar 19, 2008)

> *Brad K (7/31/2008)*Awesome! So some how incorporated into the rod you would like a way to secure the rod to the Yak, without having to use velcro.
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Not saying you should rip off their idea or anything, but their is a kayak fishing rod at academy (the only one i have seen there) that has a ring on it for tethering the rod to the yak. it says it floats as well and is 7.5' i believe.


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## Linda (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey brad, Ive asked a few yakers at the spring tourny of somegood features that would help, and most agreed that length really wasn't an issuecause ujustdip the rod on any straight down fish and usually the yak or the fish will turn out and the line will offer some angle to clear the nose of the yak.

Short butt length will help cause of thelower profile we present in the water. The butt is ussually jammed in our ribs or higher will fighting a fish. Most manufacture butt lengths are way too long for this manuverbility , and too long for casting at that. Im always choked up on the grip of store rods to get an optimal cast.

Like Pam said, a small quick-clip of some sort so u can unclip safty leash after hook-up.

My personal favoriteis a 6' two peice for a bait rod u can store in the front hatch. one less rod to worry about when entering and exiting the surf. All in all I dont thik u can go wrong with a 7' relatively fast action rod with about an 8" butt . The stiff mid section of a fast action rod,and the shorter butt grip will help clear the bows of most yaks and help manuverability and fish fighting at the same time.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Thank you very much!!! This is all great information. 

I really hope I can put something together that will work.



One more question, does anyone have problem loading Graphite blanks? Either casting from sitting position or setting the hook. I was just wondering if a Composite blank might not be better suited to Kayak fishing.


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## FldTrlr (Oct 5, 2007)

My dream kayak rod: 7 1/2 foot (spin or conventional), two piece, fast tip, stout mid section, short handle (8-9") with gimbal grooves and a rubber cap for when they are not needed, course threads on the reel seat (it <U>will</U> get full of sand), built-in ring for a safety snap, quality rust-resistant components (it <U>will</U> get soaked with salt water), price range of $70 to $90.Composite is fine for offshore or live-bait, but I really prefer graphite for inshore using artificials.


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## FLSalomon (Oct 3, 2007)

As Pam mentioned, being able to attach to a leash easily is a nice feature - saw a Baidarka (?) rod today with a ring incorporated into the lower end of the butt - easy to attach the leash to itand it was out of the way of the reel. Very nice feature. In a yak, everything of value must float or be attached to something that floats. Mostly I use 6' to 7' rods - any shorter and you can't reach around the front of the boat, longer rods are kind of awkward to deal with... Shorter butts are great. Gimbals not required. Hookkeepers are nice, keeps things orderly. Durability is big for me - they get rough treatment in the close quarters of a kayak - i just can't see spending $150+ on a kayak rod. I use a lot of Ugly Stiks - work great and if it gets damaged, buy another. Something in between would be attractive. 

Medium / fast action is good - you will not be horsing up a fish from down deep in a yak - you don't have the leverage. If you hook something big, just keep the rod pointed off the bow and let the yak act as a big drag. (think large barrel from Jaws...)

Would love to see what you come up with...


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

VELCRO straps will save rods. Ball Bungees are great too. I've been yaking for several years and haven't lost anything except pliers. I haven't been dumped other than when I practiced re-entry and I don't expect to be but "things" happen.

The rod holders and tackle box holderson the back of my chair hold rods and boxes securely. I regularly keep mytackle thereI the back of my truck.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks a million for all the good input. Seems like pricing is going to be the biggest issue. I have some great ideas for design but it's really hard to keep the final product under $140.

I could cut a few corners on components, but that's reall not how I like to do things. I will still be building one and donating it to a Kayak event just for feedback if nothing else. Thanks again for all the great information.


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## northpaw (Aug 6, 2008)

Brad, you might want to consider a new market that is growing fast here in my neck of the woods... offshore kayak rods. There is a growing group of anglers targeting sharks and bull reds on the upper coast from kayaks. Rods of choice run from 15-30 to 30-50 class, usually 6'6 to 7' length. What works is a more moderate action rather than a tip flex due to breakoffs at boatside when leadering fish for CPR (don't ask how I know this, or how many times I have known it:sick). A buddy of mine has been working with Okuma in developing a rod for this purpose that floats as well. Its a sweet stick with extended EVA foregrip, and shorter rear grip, its very light in hand but still has plenty of backbone. I would think you might find a solid market to sell these rods to. I know I'd be interested in trying one, but I also think the right stick would cross over to some of the tarpon folks as well. 

Just a thought...


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Alright, thanks a million. I will start working on one. I am currently working on a similar rod, with a few changes to drop some weight I think might work


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## Team Hobie (Oct 9, 2007)

Brad: Ditto what everyone has told you but most is applicable for inshore. There is of course a big difference between inshore needs and offshore. Offshore we are not casting so much so butt length can be longer for leverage and horsing in a bigger fish. A longer butt will get in the way moreso when casting and wear you down quicker. Offshore we tend to troll or work the bottom for bigger fish. Also length of the rod (7-7.5) can help with a trolling spread width.

Even though dipping the rod to work a fish does work it can be tricky when a big fish is pulling from the side. I have used, and given up on, sort rods. I like to have the reach to get the line around the front of the yak and stay in control. I repeat though, length for getting around the kayak is secondary to length for trolling spread.

Braid is commonly used but I have not had problems with guides.

If you do attach a clip for leash, it needs to be high enough up so as to not get in the way of the rod holder (ram tubes, scotty and molded in types) and low enough to be out of the way of the reel handle swing. This is not an easy thing to solve but yu can do it.

The GCKFA would love to have a rod to give as an award for our tournament next spring. I won the King Mack division this pastspring and absolutely cherish my Cavitt custom rod. Rick asks me when I am actually going to fish with it and Itell him it is a show piece. Not really, but I do show it off a lot.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Ted Gorder, GCKFA Vice President.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks again for the input. I am currently trying to work on a clip system for tethering the rods to the Yaks. I hope to have something final really soon. Once I do I will try and display it on here. 

thanks again for all the input!!


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