# Deer Hunting with an Air Rifle



## Garbo

I'm guessing that the improvements in performance of modern day Air Rifles has prompted Alabama to admit Air Rifles of 30cal or greater as legal to use in Hunting Deer. 

I have had several upper end Gamo and RWS Air Rifles and they are very capable of doing massive damage that should be enough with proper impact placement to kill some sizable game. I have shot some way big stuff with a Gamo .22cal and it performs as well as a .22 in closer range distances. 

Could be really cool considering the cost of ammo nowadays.


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## MrFish

There's a guy on YouTube, that hunts Africa with them. All the way up to .50


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## FenderBender

Why would anyone do this? I just don't understand the mindset behind it... In what way is this beneficial to the hunter over using a properly sized center fire rifle? If you can afford the costs associated with hunting, you can for dang sure afford ammo even if it was 5 bucks a round, which it's not even close. You sight your rifle in, and hopefully one shot one deer. It's not like you are burning up boxes of 7mag at the range all day for fun. 

I'm sure a deer can be killed with a 30 caliber pellet, but not nearly as effectively as with a similar sized bullet. It's not more challenging, it's just silly. If you want a challenge, make your own bow and arrows, or spear, and go wound a deer with that. At least you'd be trying something that took additional skill from the hunter. 

Not ethical to the animal, certainly not sporting, just stupid. My .02


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## John B.

With the lack of education, and misguided moral compass that seems to be overwhelmingly present in Alabama, I can definitely see how some people think this is a good idea... 

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## Jason

The larger air guns used fer hunting are not your typical Walmart air rifles. A buddy of mine has a few that are qualified to hunt w/ and they are awesome and powerful weapons. At a cost of 1K +, I'd rather buy a "real rifle" though. He has some that are probably 2K and they have some ammo traveling as fast as a "real bullet".


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## MrFish

Dang 5.56 hunter criticizing an air rifle.....:whistling:


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## John B.

MrFish said:


> Dang 5.56 hunter criticizing an air rifle.....:whistling:


Apples and oranges... 

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## Bodupp

What is the muzzle velocity/energy of these "deer legal" air rifles?


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## Garbo

......................


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## John B.

You hit em in the spine with a blow dart gun, they're gonna drop... one inch high or low and you'd need them dogs to trail it... 

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## Garbo

I would believe that if one was so compelled one could petition the Alabama Department of Wildlife Management and with enough support could get the Law changed to what would suit them.


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## John B.

Garbo said:


> I would believe that if one was so compelled one could petition the Alabama Department of Wildlife Management and with enough support could get the Law changed to what would suit them.


Being as I do not hunt, nor do I reside in Alabama, I have no interest in pursuing the matter. 

However, that does not change my opinion that this is not an ethical way to take a deer. 

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## Garbo

John B. said:


> Being as I do not hunt, nor do I reside in Alabama, I have no interest in pursuing the matter.
> 
> However, that does not change my opinion that this is not an ethical way to take a deer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk




Well....I guess the next best thing is to express that opinion here on the PFF. 

Carry on. 

.


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## hjorgan

Been used since Lewis and Clark


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## John B.

Garbo said:


> Well....I guess the next best thing is to express that opinion here on the PFF.
> 
> Carry on.
> 
> .


Just expressing my opinion to someone who is full of opinions them self, you carry on as well, sir. 

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## Garbo

John B. said:


> Just expressing my opinion to someone who is full of opinions them self, you carry on as well, sir.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



While I respect your free opinions I do not understand the personal attack. 

I will apologize for wherever, whenever and however I have wronged you and let you know I would prefer to make it right. 

Also, I didn't pass the Law or Approve it..... While I do enjoy shooting Air Rifles as well as other type weapons and find this topic interesting.....but I see no reason to attack you personally.


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## John B.

Garbo said:


> While I respect your free opinions I do not understand the personal attack.
> 
> I will apologize for wherever, whenever and however I have wronged you and let you know I would prefer to make it right.
> 
> Also, I didn't pass the Law or Approve it..... While I do enjoy shooting Air Rifles as well as other type weapons and find this topic interesting.....but I see no reason to attack you personally.


I'm not sure how you thought this was a personal attack, sir. You have expressed opinions on this forum for many years, to say you are "full of opinions" wouldn't be far off, would it? Of course unless you believe you are full of facts, and everything you say it truth? 

It was in not meant to be derogatory towards your character, I do however apologize if you took it that way. 

I hope we can get over this misinterpreted statement. 

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## Chapman5011

I'd prefer to just do a head shot with a 22Rifle


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## The Pitt

You guys every seen these air rifles? These aren't large cal break action pellet guns. They use a gas tank similar to paintball guns and shoot like 3000psi. Doesn't matter how the projectile is sent to the target, whether it be a bow, gun powder or air pressure. If the round is put in the vitals and is hitting with good kinetic energy the critter will go down no matter what method you choose. 

That said. Those air rifles are outrageously priced and I would rather spend that money on a real rifle.


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## Garbo

The Pitt said:


> You guys every seen these air rifles? These aren't large cal break action pellet guns. They use a gas tank similar to paintball guns and shoot like 3000psi. Doesn't matter how the projectile is sent to the target, whether it be a bow, gun powder or air pressure. If the round is put in the vitals and is hitting with good kinetic energy the critter will go down no matter what method you choose.
> 
> That said. Those air rifles are outrageously priced and I would rather spend that money on a real rifle.



We agree on the pricetag, but they are very interesting. I have a .22 caliber RWS that is very powerful and is way way cool to shoot, but it also makes me interested in a larger caliber in high velocity. 

Regardless....It's a Gun.........I haven't found one I don't like...yet.


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## FenderBender

It seems that the only reason WHY someone would do this, is just to be able to say, or brag, that they killed a deer with an air rifle. Undeniably expensive, arguably unethical, it just doesn't seem to be what hunting should be about. 

It's as if we have grown tired of taking game the most efficient way, and are bored looking to push the limits. There is no way those guns can consistently perform as well and humanely as a .30-06 or .270 under the same conditions. Air rifles are great tools to introduce kids to shooting, and for taking smaller game. 

Bottom line- If you're looking at a 200 lb + 10 point buck of a lifetime, what gun would you want in your hands? If the answer is anything other than an air rifle, you are doing every other deer a disservice by using them.


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## MrFish

FenderBender said:


> It seems that the only reason WHY someone would do this, is just to be able to say, or brag, that they killed a deer with an air rifle. Undeniably expensive, arguably unethical, it just doesn't seem to be what hunting should be about.
> 
> It's as if we have grown tired of taking game the most efficient way, and are bored looking to push the limits. There is no way those guns can consistently perform as well and humanely as a .30-06 or .270 under the same conditions. Air rifles are great tools to introduce kids to shooting, and for taking smaller game.
> 
> Bottom line- If you're looking at a 200 lb + 10 point buck of a lifetime, what gun would you want in your hands? If the answer is anything other than an air rifle, you are doing every other deer a disservice by using them.


Bows don't perform as consistent as a rifle. Some people push the ethical range. Should we ban them? Maybe we should ban people that make bad shots? My last buck was 200+ and 11 points. Had him at 40 yards or so. Easy bow range for me, as I practice out to 60, but I would, and did, have my rifle. Does that mean that I am doing a disservice to every other deer when I take my bow?


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## Garbo

Fender, I don't think they are for any and all types of hunting and situations....But I do think that advancement has come far enough to warrant the interest, the idea and to make it legal to do. If a bullet has the energy needed at impact and the inertia to finish the job after impact its a viable weapon. 

With all that said, I would feel pretty good saying that there would be far less wounded or maimed Deer if some people that bowhunt would use a Benjamin .357 instead of a Bow. 

I've already made up my mind to get one of some sort.....but I still have the Daisy Red Rider I got at 6 years old and I still shoot it. I also have several other air rifles that I enjoy shooting as well.....

I guess when a Rail Gun Rifle is available to the public, I will have one of those too. 

.


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## FenderBender

MrFish said:


> Bows don't perform as consistent as a rifle. Some people push the ethical range. Should we ban them? Maybe we should ban people that make bad shots? My last buck was 200+ and 11 points. Had him at 40 yards or so. Easy bow range for me, as I practice out to 60, but I would, and did, have my rifle. Does that mean that I am doing a disservice to every other deer when I take my bow?



The fact that you chose your rifle over your bow when faced with a trophy deer answers your question. You wanted the BEST possible chance to harvest your deer. 

Would you intentionally hit the woods with a 30# draw youth bow over your 70# draw bow at home? It's apples to apples. Both will kill deer, but one will hot with a lot more energy and penetration. Why under gun yourself intentionally and therefore up your chance of wounding? That's the only problem I have with it. If it was the only gun I had available to me I would hunt with one. It's not, so I choose the right tool for the right job.


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## The Pitt

I would like to hear your argument on it being unethical.

I'm just not seeing how it makes a difference which charge is being used to launch a projectile. They are both after all only a projectile leaving a rifled barrel. As long as the projectile is used within the required parameters (barrel length/distance/psi, etc) for the bullet to expand properly there should be no issue taking game. Yes you are limiting yourself but I don't think I would consider it unethical.


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## John B.

Personally I don't have any interest in trailing my quarry. The only reason I bow hunt is because it's the only weapon allowed for the first month of the season. A comment was made earlier about using a 5.56... have I done it? Yes. Inside of 75 yards, with handloads, and a rifle that shoots sub moa... just watching that video, he was hitting all over the place... and not ever getting pass throughs. In fact, the only deer that was DRT, was a spine shot, and if it wasn't for that, I doubt they would have found that deer if the shot was an inch high or low... 

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## MrFish

It all comes down to ethics. People without will take shots at running deer with no regard for wounding them. Can't change them. They'll do it with a bow, spear, air gun, center fire or even a little 5.56. John, if you apply limitations to the 5.56, why do you think that air gunners will not apply the same type of limits?


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## Rickpcfl

You'll shoot your eye out with that thing!


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## kendive

I don't post much anymore on these forums... But you all need to educate yourselves before you knock the ability of airguns. Yes Jason I have airguns that will do anything my powder guns can do.

The overseas folks hunt all the time with air... I personal know alot of them.

Here is an example of what can be done with air... I know people that hunt wild boar with a .25 airgun. I shoot alot and have it all. I find the airguns to be more fun, cheaper, and way more accurate that any powder gun I own. I do play around with subsonic .308 and 300 blkout but sometimes wonder why when I can shoot a 300 gr pellet at 850fps with my Career Dragon .50 with Just one of the big bore airguns I own.

Don't get me wrong I Don't Hunt... I shoot for fun at targets.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1449024864/last-1449024864/Expand+Thread


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## CurDog

If the round (200g/225g) from a .50 cal air gun hits with the same ft.lb as a powder gun hits (at a given distance), what's the difference? Sure, most powder guns will reach out beyond 300yds easily, air rifle's won't, nor will a arrow. Speaking of max. kill range.
If you shoot a deer at 30yds with either a arrow, air gun or powder gun, the results are the same, considering the hit was a vital hit, and the result meaning a dead deer, not the actual body damage. So why would the air gun be unethical? Certainly it's unethical to try and hit a deer at 100yds+ with a arrow, but the air gun will perform very good at 100yds, with 679 fps @ 150yds. 
The .50cal air rifles for hunting have come a long way from the days of yesteryear, and aren't that expensive, $600 for a .50 cal. Dragon Slayer, and very quite. There is zero heat when shot, zero barrel fouling, better accuracy. And silencers are very expensive, Plus you need a $200 tax stamp to use it. 
As far as unethical, it's unethical to shoot a deer with a .22 rifle, as well as using a air gun designed for coyotes and you're trying to take a bear with it. So as long as you are using the right weapon, within it's design capability limits for the job, we all should be good. 
Just my .02 
*
*


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## 192

I find it amusing to read all this "I am more ethical than you" drivel. Keep that pinky up while you sip on your Natty Light!


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## John B.

grouper22 said:


> I find it amusing to read all this "I am more ethical than you" drivel. Keep that pinky up while you sip on your Natty Light!


Miller lite...

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## Brandon_SPC

I wouldn't use one. The Benjamin 357 air rifle shoots about 800 fps and with about a 145 grain bullet that is about 206 ft lbs of energy..... at the muzzle. The .223 using say a 50 gr GMX produces more than this out to 500 yards. If I don't feel comfortable harvesting a deer with a .223 past 150 I wouldn't use and air rifle on deer period.... I'm sure it would be a good tool though for predator hunting inside city limits.


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## chaddd

Air rifles sound stupid for deer hunting! When they open up a 2 week air rifle season I'll be racing you guys to the store for one!


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## Jason

CurDog said:


> If the round (200g/225g) from a .50 cal air gun hits with the same ft.lb as a powder gun hits (at a given distance), what's the difference? Sure, most powder guns will reach out beyond 300yds easily, air rifle's won't, nor will a arrow. Speaking of max. kill range.
> If you shoot a deer at 30yds with either a arrow, air gun or powder gun, the results are the same, considering the hit was a vital hit, and the result meaning a dead deer, not the actual body damage. So why would the air gun be unethical? Certainly it's unethical to try and hit a deer at 100yds+ with a arrow, but the air gun will perform very good at 100yds, with 650+ ft.lbs @ 150yds.
> The .50cal air rifles for hunting have come a long way from the days of yesteryear, and aren't that expensive, $600 for a .50 cal. Dragon Slayer, and very quite. There is zero heat when shot, zero barrel fouling, better accuracy. And silencers are very expensive, Plus you need a $200 tax stamp to use it.
> As far as unethical, it's unethical to shoot a deer with a .22 rifle, as well as using a air gun designed for coyotes and you're trying to take a bear with it. So as long as you are using the right weapon, within it's design capability limits for the job, we all should be good.
> Just my .02
> *
> *


Ohhhh no, a post that makes sense??? Stop it!!!:thumbsup:


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## sureicanfish

Powder is cool, air can be cool, but lasers...that's where it's at!


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## Brandon_SPC

CurDog said:


> If the round (200g/225g) from a .50 cal air gun hits with the same ft.lb as a powder gun hits (at a given distance), what's the difference? Sure, most powder guns will reach out beyond 300yds easily, air rifle's won't, nor will a arrow. Speaking of max. kill range.
> If you shoot a deer at 30yds with either a arrow, air gun or powder gun, the results are the same, considering the hit was a vital hit, and the result meaning a dead deer, not the actual body damage. So why would the air gun be unethical? Certainly it's unethical to try and hit a deer at 100yds+ with a arrow, but the air gun will perform very good at 100yds, with 650+ ft.lbs @ 150yds.
> The .50cal air rifles for hunting have come a long way from the days of yesteryear, and aren't that expensive, $600 for a .50 cal. Dragon Slayer, and very quite. There is zero heat when shot, zero barrel fouling, better accuracy. And silencers are very expensive, Plus you need a $200 tax stamp to use it.
> As far as unethical, it's unethical to shoot a deer with a .22 rifle, as well as using a air gun designed for coyotes and you're trying to take a bear with it. So as long as you are using the right weapon, within it's design capability limits for the job, we all should be good.
> Just my .02
> *
> *


That’s because a 50 caliber air rifle (Dragon Slayer) pushing 200 or 225 grain bullet only pushes it at 600 fps. That only produces 160-180 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. If this was going to produce 650+ ft lbs of energy at 150 yards a 200 gr bullet will have to be traveling around 1,200 fps or more..... Curious to what 50 cal air rifle produces 650ft lbs of energy at 150 yards?
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45

The difference between shooting an animal with a rifle or bow is the way they die. When you shoot and animal with a bow it has a broadhead on the end that slices its way through an animal and the animal dies from hemorrhaging, when you shoot an animal with a firearm the bullet pushes it way into the animal and expands to produce that hydrostatic shock. When you have a projectile traveling that slow and only producing that much kinetic energy the projectile will not produce enough hydrostatic shock to dieand possibly not produce enough energy to get past say a shoulder. I would feel more comfortable shooting a deer with some .223 55gr fmj then shooting it with a bullet that travels that slow and produces only that for kinetic energy.


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## Tail Chaser

a thought to ponder 
isn't the ballistics for a 38 special and one of these big bore air rifles the same? or purty near
I believe it was good enough for our police and service members for many years in controlling some types of human populations in one manner or another.
just asking?
not talking morals or ethics but ballistics
I believe as long as you know your limitations its up to you as long as its legal
just saying


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## Garbo

It is legal to Hunt Deer in Alabama with an Air Gun of 30cal or larger, so a group of people feel that Air Guns are an acceptable tool to use to harvest Whitetail Deer. 

I love guns. 

I have found that I love most any type gun. 

This is an interesting topic to me because A....It's a Gun and B...another type of Gun and C....I can now shoot it at something legally. All good stuff to me. 

I didn't start this conversation to question the ethics or sportsmanship of others and I don't think it's anyone's place in the conversation I started to do so. If someone has the ability and practices common sense and respect for the game and takes a Deer within the law there is nothing to question, and now this is another legal way to do what I love to do.


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## Brandon_SPC

Tail Chaser said:


> a thought to ponder
> isn't the ballistics for a 38 special and one of these big bore air rifles the same? or purty near
> I believe it was good enough for our police and service members for many years in controlling some types of human populations in one manner or another.
> just asking?
> not talking morals or ethics but ballistics
> I believe as long as you know your limitations its up to you as long as its legal
> just saying


Apples and oranges are being compared now. Most human beings when they are shot will stop what they are doing because the fact that we can process being shot. We have the ability to reason. We know what is associated with being shot. Now there are cases where a human is drugged out and any of the commonly used sidearms not working in which case the only way to stop something like that is hitting something in the central nervous system. An animal can't process being shot all they know is something hit them so they either fight or flight. Most animals take off running so you wan't a cartridge that either penetrates enough and puts a whole all the way through and big enough hole to bleed out or dumps all it's energy inside an animal to disrupt the nervous system. But I also wouldn't hunt a deer with a 38 special.


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## CurDog

Brandon_SPC said:


> That’s because a 50 caliber air rifle (Dragon Slayer) pushing 200 or 225 grain bullet only pushes it at 600 fps. That only produces 160-180 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. If this was going to produce 650+ ft lbs of energy at 150 yards a 200 gr bullet will have to be traveling around 1,200 fps or more..... Curious to what 50 cal air rifle produces 650ft lbs of energy at 150 yards?
> http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45
> 
> The difference between shooting an animal with a rifle or bow is the way they die. When you shoot and animal with a bow it has a broadhead on the end that slices its way through an animal and the animal dies from hemorrhaging, when you shoot an animal with a firearm the bullet pushes it way into the animal and expands to produce that hydrostatic shock. When you have a projectile traveling that slow and only producing that much kinetic energy the projectile will not produce enough hydrostatic shock to dieand possibly not produce enough energy to get past say a shoulder. I would feel more comfortable shooting a deer with some .223 55gr fmj then shooting it with a bullet that travels that slow and produces only that for kinetic energy.


Thank you for pointing out my typo... it should have read 679 "FPS" @ 150yds., but just as a comparison, A Remington 230g .45 cal FMJ travels @ only 835 fps. 

However, If I had a Dragon Slayer and If it were legal for deer in Fl., and If a deer was within 50 yards. I'd use the .50 cal air rifle. 
Besides, I rarely shoot deer over 50 yards anyway. Not that I can't, I just prefer not to.


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## Brandon_SPC

CurDog said:


> Thank you for pointing out my typo... it should have read 679 "FPS" @ 150yds., but just as a comparison, A Remington 230g .45 cal FMJ travels @ only 835 fps.
> 
> However, If I had a Dragon Slayer and If it were legal for deer in Fl., and If a deer was within 50 yards. I'd use the .50 cal air rifle.
> Besides, I rarely shoot deer over 50 yards anyway. Not that I can't, I just prefer not to.


How is it shooting 679 fps at 150 yards? Curious, where is this data coming from? Here is a ballistics trajectory using a 200 grain bullet traveling at 600 fps from the article I provided when they chronograph that 50 cal dragon slayer rifle. If this rifle was going to produce 679 fps at 150 yards it would have to produce around 750 fps at the muzzle. Also with a 50 cal bullet if you think about how big that surface area is, you will also get less penetration because it is traveling that slow and has such a big surface area it will cause more drag once it hits the intended target thus causing less penetration. I would prefer a small caliber air rifle like the .357 versus the 50 cal. You will have the ability to penetrate deeper and also it generates more kinetic energy but still not enough to convince me to hunt deer with it. What cracks me up is people are okay with this but not a .223...... 

Is this what you are reading? 
"With its barrel size you can expect it to exhibit a lot of power, which means you can rely for it to be accurate and precise when hitting targets, even at a considerable distance. RWS air rifles are strong and truly perform very well, whatever purpose you may want it to serve. They* can fire bullets* at* 679 FPS *and can *shoot up to* 150 yards."

http://airriflecenter.com/50-cal-air-rifle/


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## John B.

Brandon, how dare you bring logic to this conversation...

Comparing these are rifles to pistol cartridges is comical at best. I don't think there's many folks deer hunting with a .45acp, and they're a damn fool if they use it out past 50 yards on a deer. 

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## Brandon_SPC

Quick question who is for hunting deer with a air rifle? Would you be okay with taking a deer with a 22 mag? Lets say a 180-200lb buck steps out at 30 yards would you feel comfortable shooting this buck in the shoulder or right behind the shoulder?


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## Tail Chaser

I am a fool.
I used a 44 magnum with scope.
My buddy uses a 357 magnum
however not pass 50 yards
I know my limits


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## Tail Chaser

my 45 cal air gun will go through a 2x4 one 3/4 inch plywood and lodge in the second 3/4 sheet at 50 yards


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## Tail Chaser

Brandon_SPC said:


> Quick question who is for hunting deer with a air rifle? Would you be okay with taking a deer with a 22 mag? Lets say a 180-200lb buck steps out at 30 yards would you feel comfortable shooting this buck in the shoulder or right behind the shoulder?


no as I am pretty sure it is not legal


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## John B.

Tail Chaser said:


> I am a fool.
> I used a 44 magnum with scope.
> My buddy uses a 357 magnum
> however not pass 50 yards
> I know my limits


Neither of those are .45acp, and are also common chamberings for lever guns, which I have also used to take a deer with.... .44 mag that is. 

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## Tail Chaser

I am sorry I thought you were reffering to pistol cartridges in whole


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## Brandon_SPC

Tail Chaser said:


> my 45 cal air gun will go through a 2x4 one 3/4 inch plywood and lodge in the second 3/4 sheet at 50 yards


It is different shooting a piece of wood versus shooting something that has muscle, tissue, bones, hair, and blood. Believe it or not but tissue is extremely elastic and takes up a lot of energy. Mix that in with blood, muscle, and bones and I will bet that your air rifle will not penetrate that much in a deer. I also will bet that these pellets with this low of energy will not expand either. And from the link I provided with the 50 cal and them shooting it into soda bottles it shows that they will not expand. Would you shoot a deer with a 22 mag?


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## John B.

Tail Chaser said:


> I am sorry I thought you were reffering to pistol cartridges in whole


There's a massive difference in ballistics between .44mag and .45ACP, my comment was directed towards the .45acp as it has a similar velocity to these air guns, well, sort of... 

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## CurDog

Tail Chaser said:


> my 45 cal air gun will go through a 2x4 one 3/4 inch plywood and lodge in the second 3/4 sheet at 50 yards


OMG, but that's not good enough for shooting a deer. :whistling: 
It doesn't matter, everyone has their opinion. Wouldn't matter if the subject was shooting a deer with a 30-30 or a .270 at 50 yards. Someone is gonna try and make a argument point about why you shouldn't use one or the other. 
Brandon, I googled the info I posted. I don't need to prove a point. My point was and is... I would use a .50 cal air rifle for deer hunting. 'nuff said. :thumbup:


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## Tail Chaser

my pellets did expand albeit in wood
yes it is different but i tried to put it into laymen terms
but it never translates just right
I choose to use a 308 to rifle hunt with
i do not prefer smaller claibers to hunt with
to choose a bow over an air rifle I would choose my air gun but I love a bow too
my point is if its legal im in
if I feel I am capable of using and killing my quarry with it I will do it
but I know myelf and my weapons limitations
and I am not gonna tell someone else whether or not they should do the same as me
whether I feel their gun is to small for my likings or not
I believe my gun would have no problem killing a deer at 30 yards have I done it no
could it yes
would i try further no 
just like hunting with my pistol i aint shooting long distance not pass 50 yards
can it be done probably but I am not willing to chance it
I vote yes on a season!


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## Brandon_SPC

CurDog said:


> OMG, but that's not good enough for shooting a deer. :whistling:
> It doesn't matter, everyone has their opinion. Wouldn't matter if the subject was shooting a deer with a 30-30 or a .270 at 50 yards. Someone is gonna try and make a argument point about why you shouldn't use one or the other.
> Brandon, I googled the info I posted. I don't need to prove a point. My point was and is... I would use a .50 cal air rifle for deer hunting. 'nuff said. :thumbup:


A 22mag will penetrate through a 2X4 but I would like to see a video of this air rifle at 50 yards. And no it would not matter if it was a 30-30 or a .270 because the fact is both produce enough energy to cleanly harvest a deer. I am not proving a point but just providing factual information verses the "679 fps at 150 yards" and applying common physics to this. I also googled the information that was stated and from what it seems it looks like it was a miss interpretation of these air rifles.


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## Tail Chaser

Brandon_SPC said:


> A 22mag will penetrate through a 2X4 but I would like to see a video of this air rifle at 50 yards. And no it would not matter if it was a 30-30 or a .270 because the fact is both produce enough energy to cleanly harvest a deer. I am not proving a point but just providing factual information verses the "679 fps at 150 yards" and applying common physics to this. I also googled the information that was stated and from what it seems it looks like it was a miss interpretation of these air rifles.


So on the vote of whether you should be able to hunt deer with a big bore air gun:* I take it your vote is a possible maybe* lol

and john your vote is ? *a maybe possibly* yall have a great nite


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## Brandon_SPC

Tail Chaser said:


> So on the vote of whether you should be able to hunt deer with a big bore air gun:* I take it your vote is a possible maybe* lol
> 
> and john your vote is ? *a maybe possibly* yall have a great nite


Mine is a no but y'll still haven't answered my question would you shoot a deer with a 22 mag?

I'm not saying I am perfect but I will give the animal enough respect to morally and ethically harvest it without it suffering. I give all animals the respect whether it is deer, hogs, coyotes, etc. But after reading this thread, it has opened my eyes to how game animals aren't successfully harvest taking out the shot placement. Shot placement only goes so far and when you don't have enough kinetic energy then that shot placement will only take you so far.


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## John B.

At the end of the day, I'll just choose my .308 BAR and remove all doubt on whether it will kill or not... 

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## Tail Chaser

*sorry couldnt help it*

Ok I apologize as much as it hurts me to reply again 
I hate getting drawn back in
debates are like crack 
I hope not to offend anyone in these as well 
but I like to poke fun at the things that are discussed and hope everyone can take it as light hearted as possible

first to John I love my 308s as stated before my go to gun
even got em suppressed also hope that don't make anyone mad too

just some stupid questions from a not so smart man
so when a deer is shot whether it be from a bow, a rifle ,pistol, or air gun am I to believe it does not suffer
*as it runs off it isnt thinking WTF? Shoot that hurts * as the life of this once living creature is drained by whatever means
you give animals respect what do you do with the coyotes that you respect morally and ethically? not that I really am interested but your words just dont match your actions. Yes I realize they need to be managed. 
I just hope you can understand how some one could take what you do as not ethical 

and who wrote this 
_Lay some lead out and don't stop shooting until you either run out or they are gone. _

yes I did answer your question in post #47
and in the post where I stated I use a 308 to hunt with and do not prefer smaller rifles
so here ya go no I would not use a 22 mag (they are for long range) maybe a 22 short they are for short range
not because a 22 mag can't kill a deer(I have helped my butcher put cattle down with a 22mag no not at 30 yards ) and not because its illegal (ok mainly this) but cause I like big guns 
once again it is about a new opportunity to harvest deer whether you agree or not
apparently some peoples figured it was ok to make it legal
the point is if there were an air gun season I would do it and know that in my opinion my gun could do it with restrictions
_if it were a choice to use my rifle or any other weapon I choose_ 
no I aint using any other Im using my rifle
does that mean I think there should be only a rifle season no
just that when I can Im bringing the thunder and when I cant Ill do whats legal (to the best of my ability)


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## John B.

Honestly, I don't care either way... I just want to find the damn thing after I shoot it. And no, the suppressors don't hurt my feelings. I'll be buying an Omega here soon for my .300 Blackout and .308 bolt guns. 

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## Brandon_SPC

Tail Chaser said:


> Ok I apologize as much as it hurts me to reply again
> I hate getting drawn back in
> debates are like crack
> I hope not to offend anyone in these as well
> but I like to poke fun at the things that are discussed and hope everyone can take it as light hearted as possible
> 
> first to John I love my 308s as stated before my go to gun
> even got em suppressed also hope that don't make anyone mad too
> 
> just some stupid questions from a not so smart man
> so when a deer is shot whether it be from a bow, a rifle ,pistol, or air gun am I to believe it does not suffer
> *as it runs off it isnt thinking WTF? Shoot that hurts * as the life of this once living creature is drained by whatever means
> you give animals respect what do you do with the coyotes that you respect morally and ethically? not that I really am interested but your words just dont match your actions. Yes I realize they need to be managed.
> I just hope you can understand how some one could take what you do as not ethical
> 
> and who wrote this
> _Lay some lead out and don't stop shooting until you either run out or they are gone. _
> 
> yes I did answer your question in post #47
> and in the post where I stated I use a 308 to hunt with and do not prefer smaller rifles
> so here ya go no I would not use a 22 mag (they are for long range) maybe a 22 short they are for short range
> not because a 22 mag can't kill a deer(I have helped my butcher put cattle down with a 22mag no not at 30 yards ) and not because its illegal (ok mainly this) but cause I like big guns
> once again it is about a new opportunity to harvest deer whether you agree or not
> apparently some peoples figured it was ok to make it legal
> the point is if there were an air gun season I would do it and know that in my opinion my gun could do it with restrictions
> _if it were a choice to use my rifle or any other weapon I choose_
> no I aint using any other Im using my rifle
> does that mean I think there should be only a rifle season no
> just that when I can Im bringing the thunder and when I cant Ill do whats legal (to the best of my ability)


I know someone will take me hunting coyotes as unethical which is fine just like there are people that think hunters are ethically and morally deranged. But when you have a predator that does not have a natural predator what are you supposed to do besides try and manage the predators. We are now talking how subject but I will answer the questions that are directed to me. Just I did state “Lay some lead out and don't stop shooting until you either run out or they are gone.” My point is when you shoot a hog he takes off running you keep shooting that hog until it hits the ground. They had what 3 to 4 shooters? Each take a pick at one hog and they all shoot their hog until it is down or they run out. I had a plural of “they” because there are more than one shooter and more than one hog that will be shot at one time.

With the deer versus human I was talking about how a human has the ability to reason and an animal such as a deer doesn't all the know is fight or flight.

I will go ahead an apologize I did not see post #47.

The 22 mag produces more energy than any of the air guns say using a 40gr gamepoint. I understand the air guns are shooting a bigger bullet and I understand that there has been deer, elk, and African animals killed with these but also a lot of animals have fallen to the 22lr but that does not make it practical to use. I was just asking legitimate questions because one the math on ballistics was not matching up whats so ever. A 50 cal air rifle shooting 600 fps at the muzzle will not produce 679 fps at 150 yards but that was a different post and not yours. It just doesn’t make since if something that can’t even produce the kinetic energy of a magnum rimfire then why use and air rifle? If this is the case then rimfires should be legal to…. But that is just my opinion on the subject.


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## NoMoSurf

The amount of uneducated speculation and opinion in this thread is astonishing.... People that dont understand what is being discussed need to sit back and read (and keep their mouths/fingers shut) and learn what is being discussed. It is not about how much energy a round has AT the target, it's about how much energy a round leaves IN the target. I small game hunt with air rifles most of the time. Not because I dont have several .22s, but because a precision air rifle is quieter, just as accurate, and tend to expend ALL of it's energy into the target. Versus a .22 dumping partial energy into the target and the rest going hundreds of yards in an unknown upward trajectory that no one knows where it will land. While this is not tha same as hunting large game, the principals still apply. People need to look at the ft/lb energy figures of these large cal air rifles before they start firing off about how "unethical" that they are... They carry figures similar to modern blackpowder muzzleloaders. Of which I do hunt deer with.

From what I glean from this all is that we all need to sell everything that we own and carry .454 Casulls for concealed carry and hunt with .300 Weatherby Magnums for small game and .50BMG for ethical kills on large game past 100 yards.


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## kendive

These guys hunt big game all the time with airguns. This will be my next airgun Looking at the .308 to shoot for fun.

http://www.extremebigboreairrifles.com/


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## kendive

Brandon_SPC said:


> That’s because a 50 caliber air rifle (Dragon Slayer) pushing 200 or 225 grain bullet only pushes it at 600 fps. That only produces 160-180 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. If this was going to produce 650+ ft lbs of energy at 150 yards a 200 gr bullet will have to be traveling around 1,200 fps or more..... Curious to what 50 cal air rifle produces 650ft lbs of energy at 150 yards?
> http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45


That's from a Stock out of the box airgun. All my guns have been professionally tuned to get the max out of them. Either Will Piatt in NC or Paul in TX does very nice work on the airguns depending on make.


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## John B.

Question for you air gunners... why would you chose an air gun over anything else? 

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## kendive

John B. said:


> Question for you air gunners... why would you chose an air gun over anything else?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Chose an airgun for what? Hunting? I don't hunt so I could not answer that question.

Like I said I own lots of very high end airguns and I also have a pretty good collection of power guns.

For me the airguns I feel are more fun to shoot and are very accurate. One big positive on airguns is the govt does not control them at all. So you can own what you want. You can suppress the report no BS form needed. They have full auto airguns honestly I am surprised with the tech of these they don't get involved in it lets hope that don't happen. But like any hobby it's not cheap to get into if you want high in stuff.

I just ordered a .25 Vulcan Bullpup from Tony at Talontunes. http://talontunes.com/

I will probably scope it with a SWFA SS Scope because the capability of the Vulcan.


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## Tail Chaser

John B. said:


> Question for you air gunners... why would you chose an air gun over anything else?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


My answer John is the same point I have been trying to make all along.If the powers that be make a season for it.Just like bow or muzzleloader I would do it.Not that I would choose it over my rifle for taking game.Just that it if it offered another chance to be in the woods I would take it.
Much like you had stated about bow season more opportunity to get your deer.Not that you would choose it over your rifle. Just another chance to score in an approved legal method.
But I still would try to keep my shots to 30 yards like I would my bow.
Its just another season and tool to choose from that could do the job when called upon.
Use my rifle during gun my bow during bow my muzzleloader during muzzle loader and if ever an airgun season then I would choose it.
My preference would be : rifle ,pistol,new age (my 45 cal inline) muzzle loader,big bore airgun,old style muzzleloader,then bow.Just my order of preference.
However I have to abide by seasons so I follow these regulations that state what and when I can use them.

The poster reserves the right to alter or change his opinion at anytime .He is not liable for any discrepencies in his aforementioned posts or choice of weapons.These of course will be able to be altered after or during any hunt he may decide to go on.


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## Garbo

Just a little more than an hour ago .... I chose an Air Rifle over 4 - .22s , 2 - .17HMRs and 1 - .17 Mach 2....


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## John B.

It's a squirrel...

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## Garbo

That's right. But you asked a question and I answered it. 

Don't confuse the topic anymore. The topic of the thread is deer hunting with air Guns..... Not Ethics...not choice of Air Rifles over other weapons... Its about Deer hunting with Air Guns.


Read and you might discover something you didn't know.


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## John B.

As far as I know, there is not a "air rifle only" season for deer, anywhere in America. So, even though they are legal, there are still better tools to get the job done. If you use an air rifle solely to deer hunt, you may have more money than sense. This is just the opinion of someone who wants to get the job done with the most effective weapon possible.

When I go fishing I don't chase 80 pound tarpon with an ultra-light and 6 pound test just because I can.



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## Garbo

There are people that simply love guns. All guns. I'm one of those people. A different type of gun is a great reason to be interested to me.... 

I'm sure there are others that simply hunt with the same rifle and stay satisfied with that..... That's fine by me.... But not for me. I love guns way too much to only shoot the same ones all the time.....If that's not for you don't let me interfere with your way of doing things..as well as you shouldn't be bothered by my enjoyment of our sport. 

I shoot almost every caliber I can shoot including Air Rifles.

And I do chase Tarpon on 6#...cause I can.


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## Tail Chaser

So you do not like bow hunting yet you choose to do it .
So if there were an air gun only season would you do that?
I believe that was your question "why would you choose an airgun over anything else."

Just like bow hunting that you have admitted doing which involves trailing cause they rarely die where they stand.
So John if there were a season for airgun only would you do it if it extended your season?


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## John B.

Probably not, with the cost involved, I could travel somewhere else and hunt with something more effective. 

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## Tail Chaser

Thats gonna cost you alot more in the long run.But hey someone said something bout people with more money than something else.
Just for the record I have never deer hunted or hunted at all with my airgun but I aint opposed.


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