# Navarre Pier Open Carry Fishing



## CCC

Curious as to how this fiasco went ??????????


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## off route II

I would also like to know


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## Ocean Master

I still don't get it..

Why..??


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## Aquahollic

Ocean Master said:


> I still don't get it..
> 
> Why..??


+1


John


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## dustyflair

based upon the pics I see to the right looks like it went fine!


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## bigbulls

> based upon the pics I see to the right looks like it went fine!


That can't possibly be true. From the general attitude of the last thread the news agencies should be reporting at least three dead, half a dozen wounded, dozens arrested, and anti gunners holding protests and marching on the capital as we speak.


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## MikeG

bigbulls said:


> That can't possibly be true. From the general attitude of the last thread the news agencies should be reporting at least three dead, half a dozen wounded, dozens arrested, and anti gunners holding protests and marching on the capital as we speak.


Here we go! We all know what the general consensus of the forum is.


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## bigbulls

The "hear we go" started with the opening post.

I think that it's great that, despite all of the "warnings" of the PFF members, it seems to have went off with out a hitch and no one getting shot. Imagine that, responsible gun owners acting responsibly. Who'd have thunk it?


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## TatSoul

i read the previous thread and decided to stay out of but i actually thought it was a good idea.The problem with people now is they are afraid of guns.The more people who become afraid of guns the better chance we have of eventually losing our gun rights.


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## MikeG

I would hope no one got shot. It would only look worse on an already stupid event.


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## lastcast

Or maybe losing our right to open carry when your actually going out on the river or going camping when you might actually need it. When was the last time someone needed a gun on the pier? I think it should be a law to have a little common sense to even own one, then we wouldn't have to worry about open carry on the pier.


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## Splittine

...


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## MikeG

I agree.


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## bigbulls

> Or maybe losing our right to open carry when your actually going out on the river or going camping when you might actually need it.


What would you need it for when you're out on the river or camping?


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## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> What would you need it for when you're out on the river or camping?


Common sense! Use it


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## bigbulls

My common sense tells me that criminals are every where and that I'd be more likely to need to defend myself at a pier than in the woods where the closest person to me is a mile away.

Some honest questions here.... 
I'd seriously like to know why people think that the fishing piers are immune from criminal activity and the need for self defense and think that the only place for open carry is for the woods where you are likely to never ever need to use a firearm in self defense?

I'd also like to know if people are against open carry all together or just on piers or certain other places? If just on piers, why?

If you are against open carry every where why are you? 

Do you feel that other responsible gun owners do not have the right to defend themselves and exercise their 2A right the way they choose?


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## fisheye48

Guess you can't read either I didn't say use it against common sense....I said use your common sense and you should figure it out.... But wait you wanna take a gun on a pier...might need to bust out your heater on a green meat fish or a bobo that gets out of control or those pesky boat fishermen... Btw whats the limit on boat fishermen and kayaks now????


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## milesvdustin

Just get your damn CCW permit and be done with it. If stuff goes down the bad guys are going to try and take out the known guns first. Go ahead and make yourself a target, buy me some time.


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## fisheye48

milesvdustin said:


> Just get your damn CCW permit and be done with it. If stuff goes down the bad guys are going to try and take out the known guns first. Go ahead and make yourself a target, buy me some time.


Watch out your about to be told your are misinformed and uneducated


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## milesvdustin

fisheye48 said:


> Watch out your about to be told your are misinformed and uneducated


Haha I don't see any holes in my logic.


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## fisheye48

milesvdustin said:


> Haha I don't see any holes in my logic.


I know..just wait for it...it's coming


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## bigbulls

If you guys want to have an actual discussion with out acting like children then I'm all for it but if you're going to act like three year old kids then save it.



> Just get your damn CCW permit and be done with it. If stuff goes down the bad guys are going to try and take out the known guns first. Go ahead and make yourself a target, buy me some time.


Do you have any evidence or statistics to back up this opinion?


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## CootCommander

I guess no boats or kayaks got too close to the pier then....lol


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## fisheye48

An there it is!


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## milesvdustin

bigbulls said:


> If you guys want to have an actual discussion with out acting like children then I'm all for it but if you're going to act like three year old kids then save it.
> 
> Do you have any evidence or statistics to back up this opinion?




First of all, I'm not three years old. I am being serious and not acting like a child. You suggesting it tells me a lot about you. And I base my view on what I would do if I were a criminal. I wouldnt start shooting unarmed citizens before taking out armed citizens I could see. Why leave myself further exposed as a crook, or a first target as a citizen?


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## fisheye48

Once agin here is my point... You have no use for a gun on the pier....I've never heard of somebody pulling a gun on somebody on the pier. Are their arguements? Yes but you get that one hardass with a heater and he will settle it wildwest style....now as far as camping and at the river...I see it being used on snakes....once again common sense prevails


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## bigbulls

There what is? Can't answer a simple question? I never said he was right or wrong. I just asked a question. If someone is going to make such a claim I would expect that person to have evidence, statistics or research to back up the claim.



> Once agin here is my point... You have no use for a gun on the pier....I've never heard of somebody pulling a gun on somebody on the pier. Are their arguements? Yes but you get that one hardass with a heater and he will settle it wildwest style....now as far as camping and at the river...I see it being used on snakes....once again common sense prevails


How do you know you would have no use for a gun on the pier? How about the parking lot of the pier? How about down the street from the pier. I hear that "wild west style" argument all the time despite 43 other states allowing open carry (28 of those states allowing it with out restriction) and not having these incidents you speak of.



> First of all, I'm not three years old. I am being serious and not acting like a child. You suggesting it tells me a lot about you. And I base my view on what I would do if I were a criminal. I wouldnt start shooting unarmed citizens before taking out armed citizens I could see. Why leave myself further exposed as a crook, or a first target as a citizen?


I'll ask again. Do you have any evidence, statistics, or research to back up this opinion?


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## TatSoul

milesvdustin said:


> First of all, I'm not three years old. I am being serious and not acting like a child. You suggesting it tells me a lot about you. And I base my view on what I would do if I were a criminal. I wouldnt start shooting unarmed citizens before taking out armed citizens I could see. Why leave myself further exposed as a crook, or a first target as a citizen?


Your logic is flawed.If that was the case why do most criminals stop to think before they commit violent crimes when armed police officers or rent a cops are around.I don't believe i can recall the last time a store was robbed with an armed police officer standing there.Most criminals want to pick easy targets.They want to avoid the confrontation.If more people were openly armed, criminals would select there places of robbery and violent crime a little more carefully.Its common sense.Animals in the wild go after weaker,more easy targets,criminals have the same mind set.


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## MULLET HUNTER

bigbulls said:


> There what is? Can't answer a simple question? I never said he was right or wrong. I just asked a question. If someone is going to make such a claim I would expect that person to have evidence, statistics or research to back up the claim.
> 
> I'll ask again. Do you have any evidence, statistics, or research to back up this opinion?


Big bulls I'm gonna make a claim... You are an idiot! Here you go again pissing people off, with your great thoughts, and your piss poor antics. I actually have three pages now of evidence on this thread to alone support my claim, and numerous pages on the other thread that also proves your an idiot that knows nothing. You just spout off ignorance over and over again... Idiot


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## milesvdustin

Yeah I just told you why I have my opinion on it. Open carry doesn't matter, we already have the right in Florida law. I choose to conceal mine, as that is my right to do so. I would rather not advertise the fact that I have a gun for the reason I stated. This is my personal choice and my opinions. But hey, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.


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## Jason

Jason II, Chase, and Mike----we'll all go pier fishing sometime! I'll hang my AR and Glock on my side....it'll look cool I'll guarantee it, especially when i wear my fishing outfit!!! Jason II you can carry an AK w/ a Colt 1911, Chase can carry one of his long range firearms, and Mike probably a tacti-cool scattergun, and an MP5 full auto! 

On a serious note, it is a wonderful thing that a person can open carry while fishing/hunting and such but to make it a big deal, publicity, and trying to provoke negative responses does nothing fer legal gun ownership/carry.

That's my .02 and w/ that you may get nothing!


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## bigbulls

> Big bulls I'm gonna make a claim... You are an idiot! Here you go again pissing people off, with your great thoughts, and your piss poor antics. I actually have three pages now of evidence on this thread to alone support my claim, and numerous pages on the other thread that also proves your an idiot that knows nothing. You just spout off ignorance over and over again... Idiot


How is asking questions pissing people off unless they can't back up those opinions with facts and they just get annoyed by being asked to back up the claims. IDK???? And why would you immediately resort to personal insults? I thought that what a discussion forum was all about? Asking questions and getting answers? I remember the other thread very well and no one was able to back up their claims why open carry was a bad idea.




> Yeah I just told you why I have my opinion on it. Open carry doesn't matter, we already have the right in Florida law.


No, no you don't. Can you open carry in Walmart like they can in other states? Can you open carry in Applebees like they can in other states? Can you open carry at while walking your dog at night like they can in other states? FYI. You don't have the right to carry at all in Florida. The simple fact that you are required to have a license to do so turns that right into a privilege that can be revoked at any time.



Forget about the pier fishing day. I don't care. All I am asking is for the people claiming that open carry makes you a target, open carry on a pier leads to "wild West" style shootings, etc... back up the claim with some facts. Maybe they'll change my mind if there is good evidence or solid research that suggests they are correct.


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## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> There what is? Can't answer a simple question? I never said he was right or wrong. I just asked a question. If someone is going to make such a claim I would expect that person to have evidence, statistics or research to back up the claim.
> 
> How do you know you would have no use for a gun on the pier? How about the parking lot of the pier? How about down the street from the pier. I hear that "wild west style" argument all the time despite 43 other states allowing open carry (28 of those states allowing it with out restriction) and not having these incidents you speak of.
> 
> I'll ask again. Do you have any evidence, statistics, or research to back up this opinion?


If you need it down the street why not have your ccw?


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## whome

Like I said on the other thread....Look for this little "loophole" in the law to be closed in the near future because people want to make such a big deal out of it so they can say "look at me!"


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## bigbulls

fisheye48 said:


> If you need it down the street why not have your ccw?


I have my CCW. I'd also like to have the right to carry openly if I choose to do so. There are times when I would rather CC, like at church or at a nice restraunt, and there are times I would rather OC, like walking my dogs or going to Walmart or the pharmacy at night, etc.... Shouldn't I, and you and every one else have that right as a citizen of the US of A?

The fact that some politician sitting in a secure building and assigned a security team gets to dictate how I am able to protect myself doesn't sit well with me.


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## johnf

milesvdustin said:


> Just get your damn CCW permit and be done with it. If stuff goes down the bad guys are going to try and take out the known guns first. Go ahead and make yourself a target, buy me some time.


You're so misinformed and uneducated. Oh wait, no that makes since doesn't it. I'm a little guy and wouldn't want to have to fight to keep my gun. I'll keep it hid (legally of course). I do support OC though. Just not my thing.


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## bigbulls

> Like I said on the other thread....Look for this little "loophole" in the law to be closed in the near future because people want to make such a big deal out of it so they can say "look at me!"


Governor Scott Walker was asked during his campaign that if the legislation were in front of him if he would reinstate Florida's open carry rights and he affirmed that he would do so. I think we are safe for now.


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## johnf

TatSoul said:


> Your logic is flawed.If that was the case why do most criminals stop to think before they commit violent crimes when armed police officers or rent a cops are around.I don't believe i can recall the last time a store was robbed with an armed police officer standing there.Most criminals want to pick easy targets.They want to avoid the confrontation.If more people were openly armed, criminals would select there places of robbery and violent crime a little more carefully.Its common sense.Animals in the wild go after weaker,more easy targets,criminals have the same mind set.



Good argument there. But failed to mention that the vast majority of armed robbers never intend to kill anyone. They just want the money. Seeing a gun could force their hand if they are desperate enough, though I think like you that most would just pick another target.


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## whome

bigbulls said:


> Governor Scott Walker was asked during his campaign that if the legislation were in front of him if he would reinstate Florida's open carry rights and he affirmed that he would do so. I think we are safe for now.


What's Governor Scott Walker got to do with Florida's open carry laws?


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## BuckWild

capt. Jon pinney said:


> what's governor scott walker got to do with florida's open carry laws?



lmao!


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## bigbulls

http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm


http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/s...-to-carry-guns-openly/open-carry-deters-crime


> A 1985 Department of Justice survey of incarcerated felons reported that 57 percent of the felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."
> 
> Researcher Gary Kleck found that 92 percent of criminal attacks are deterred when a gun is merely shown (or, rarely, a warning shot fired). By inference, this means that open carry would have the effect of deterring crime in the same way that a thief might choose another restaurant when he sees police eating at his intended target.


A good read for all.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Armed_and_Considered_Dangerous.html?id=kqm8QxE45X0C


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## bigbulls

> What's Governor Scott Walker got to do with Florida's open carry laws?


Is that a serious question?


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## MikeG

Gov. Scott Walker? Are you serious? I knew we were right


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## whome

bigbulls said:


> Is that a serious question?


Unless the Governor of Wisconsin is somehow making FLORIDA law, then yes, I am serious as a heart attack.... I think this should sum up all your points for us... Thanks for the laugh...:thumbsup:


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## jmunoz

CCC said:


> Curious as to how this fiasco went ??????????


Why o why. I think u knew u was about to stir the pot. Lol


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## johnf

Bigbulls, while I agree with most of what you're saying I can see why they think you're an idiot. A guys opinion is an opinion based on his beliefs, experience and education. It's not scripture law or based on years of research. It's an opinion, and I think it's been beaten to death that he says it's an opinion. 

There are reasonable arguments for both sides of the issue. I would like to see open carry legalized in the whole country and would like to see national CC reciprocity. I CC, but carry OWB alot. It would be nice if I could tuck in my t-shirt sometimes. Like you said, there are places that it would be inappropriate like church, but there are places that I would like to worry less if I'm covered.


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## bigbulls

> Unless the Governor of Wisconsin is somehow making FLORIDA law,


Ha ha ha. :whistling: discussing Wisconsin politics on another forum. 

Sorry, Rick Scott. 

Any way, the point still stands.


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## K-Bill

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> Unless the Governor of Wisconsin is somehow making FLORIDA law, then yes, I am serious as a heart attack.... I think this should sum up all your points for us... Thanks for the laugh...:thumbsup:


hahaha I thought I was going crazy for a minute there


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## southern yakker

Yall are idiots.either open carry or dont.simple as that.as long as we all have the right to carry a gun we should do it the way we want to as long as its within the law.agree to disagree but do it how you want and dont criticize someone for doing what they feel is right .


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## Splittine

K-Bill said:


> hahaha I thought I was going crazy for a minute there


No there is just one person going crazy on here. You're good.


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## bigbulls

> Bigbulls, while I agree with most of what you're saying I can see why they think you're an idiot. A guys opinion is an opinion based on his beliefs, experience and education.


Look, all I am asking is for some kind of evidence supporting their opinions. Opinions mean absolutely nothing when we are talking about our firearms rights. Facts mean everything.

Typically when someone resorts to name calling and similar tactics they have nothing to support their argument.


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## Splittine

southern yakker said:


> Yall are idiots.either open carry or dont.simple as that.as long as we all have the right to carry a gun we should do it the way we want to as long as its within the law.agree to disagree but do it how you want and dont criticize someone for doing what they feel is right .



Hi pot this is kettle. Don't criticize someone for something they believe is wrong.


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## whome

BREAKING NEWS!! Governor Rick Scott of FLORIDA is expected to sign a new law tomorrow prohibiting all cheese factories in WISCONSIN from producing cheddar....


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## spear em

just go sign up for the LEO test in your area. if ya pass it and get hired then you can get paid to open carry all day long.


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## bigbulls

> either open carry or dont.simple as that.as long as we all have the right to carry a gun we should do it the way we want to as long as its within the law.agree to disagree but do it how you want and dont criticize someone for doing what they feel is right .


That's pretty much my point. 



> No there is just one person going crazy on here. You're good.


Really, you're suppose to be the moderator of this forum? I'm doing nothing more than asking questions about why people have the opinions that they do and I'm the one going crazy? Asking for facts to support their claims and get nothing but the run around and childish tactics and I'm the idiot? I hope none of you are attorneys if this is how you try to win arguments. 


> Hi pot this is kettle. Don't criticize someone for something they believe is wrong.


Talking about the pot calling the kettle black. Look into the mirror.




> BREAKING NEWS!! Governor Rick Scott of FLORIDA is expected to sign a new law tomorrow prohibiting all cheese factories in WISCONSIN from producing cheddar....


Hey, I admitted my mix up. Now why don't you try to back up your position on OC getting nixed with some facts.


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## MikeG

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> BREAKING NEWS!! Governor Rick Scott of FLORIDA is expected to sign a new law tomorrow prohibiting all cheese factories in WISCONSIN from producing cheddar....


I open carry cheese puffs and curls every time I'm in Wisconsin. On that note I'm gonna take some cheese to the pier and get these guys to shoot some holes in it like Swiss has.


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## whome

DoneDeal2 said:


> On that note I'm gonna take some cheese to the pier and get these guys to shoot some holes in it like Swiss has.


:no::no: Do you have any FACTS to back up the fact that those guys can actually hit the cheese to put holes in it?


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## Splittine

bigbulls said:


> Talking about the pot calling the kettle black. Look into the mirror.
> 
> 
> .


Thanks for proving my point, READ MY POST. You have done lost this one. Have a nice night. Y'all kids place nice with each other. Oh on a serious note if you wanna talk some Wisconsin politics hit me up, I googled it so I know where the state is. :whistling:


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## MikeG

Your right! What purpose do the holes serve. Easy fellas I didn't say Porpoise. Put em back in the holster.


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## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> Ha ha ha. :whistling: discussing Wisconsin politics on another forum.
> 
> Sorry, Rick Scott.
> 
> Any way, the point still stands.


Because your well versed in fl politics so you have moved onto other states? Must have stayed at a holiday inn express


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## MikeG

In all seriousness. I'm organizing an event. I want everyone to carry a fishing Rod to the next gun show. I'm going to need a big presence, so let's rally together


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## florabamaboy

@ bigbulls: I for one am glad to see law abiding citizens exercising their constitutional rights in a peaceful manner. I must say, that I would feel much safer standing next to a citizen open carrying expressing his/her rights than I would in a crowd of emotionally charged marchers! 
Carry on......


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## johnf

*So was I right?*

This was my only post on the other thread. Was I right?




> For you negative folks out there, why don't you wait and bask in the non-event that this will be. Yes, there will be a bunch of folks with guns at there side, yes there will be some whiny arsh liberals pissin' and moaning about seeing guns on people. You'll might see a 3 minute blurb on the news that night and then everyone will forget about it because it will happen without incident.


Seems the only thing I've heard of this thing you guys on here having a pissing match on two opinions that really have no real basis on either side. 

BTW Last time I was down there I caught a bunch of hard heads. I skinned them puppies, fileted them and grilled them. I found the taste and texture very acceptable. Therefore it's my opinion that they are ok to eat. My opinion based only on my experience. 

Am I wrong that hard heads are good to eat? NO! IT'S A FREAKIN' OPINION. 

Dang, why don't you guys start arguing about your favorite color.


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## Splittine

DoneDeal2 said:


> In all seriousness. I'm organizing an event. I want everyone to carry a fishing Rod to the next gun show. I'm going to need a big presence, so let's rally together


PM me with the details. I'm there. Got a new Shimano bottom bumping rod I'm real proud of.


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## fisheye48

DoneDeal2 said:


> In all seriousness. I'm organizing an event. I want everyone to carry a fishing Rod to the next gun show. I'm going to need a big presence, so let's rally together


Can I open carry 2 rods at once?? What about a pocket fisherman concealed? What license do I need for it


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## Jason

DoneDeal2 said:


> In all seriousness. I'm organizing an event. I want everyone to carry a fishing Rod to the next gun show. I'm going to need a big presence, so let's rally together


Would I fit in w/ a Popel Pocket Fishing rod???? Or do I need to bring 1 of my 30 wides????:shifty:


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## whome

Splittine said:


> PM me with the details. I'm there. Got a new Shimano bottom bumping rod I'm real proud of.


I used one of those once fishing for pike in Wisconsin. I attached a sling to the eyes on the rod to make carrying it easier.


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## Jason

Dern it Jason II....show's you great minds think alike!!!! double poster!!!


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## Jason

But Jon, you have to have a carry permit in the Cheese State to open carry any rod/reel or rod or plain reel in a Florida gun show????? Right????

Too much fun....goodnight brothers!!!!


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## whome

Jason said:


> But Jon, you have to have a carry permit in the Cheese State to open carry any rod/reel or rod or plain reel in a Florida gun show????? Right????
> 
> Too much fun....goodnight brothers!!!!


No it was ok Jason, I got the governor in Maine to issue me a permit to legally carry the rod in Wisconsin...


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## Mudigger

If guns kill people then that spoon made me fat!


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## MikeG

All rods are welcome, but this event is in a building, so don't cast them or someone may lose an eye.


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## bigbulls

You guys have all the laughs you want but I'll tell you one thing, I back up my point of view with something other than pure conjecture. Which I have yet to see from any of you.

You can have all the opinions you want but when you're talking about your rights I would think you would be a little more serious about the subject. I guess I just expect too much from people.


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## milesvdustin

johnf said:


> You're so misinformed and uneducated. Oh wait, no that makes since doesn't it. I'm a little guy and wouldn't want to have to fight to keep my gun. I'll keep it hid (legally of course). I do support OC though. Just not my thing.


How am I uninformed and uneducated? You used "since" instead of "sense." And you essentially supported my point. You would rather keep your gun hidden to keep yourself from becoming a potential target. That is my stance as well.


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## whome

DoneDeal2 said:


> All rods are welcome, but this event is in a building, so don't cast them or someone may lose an eye.


Why can't you be serious? I Want to have a serious conversation and you keep being sarcastic. If you don't start being serious I'm going to start a new thread asking why.... Now be serious..... Is 30lb ok or will there be too much drop?


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## bigbulls

Apparently way too much.


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## Play'N Hooky Too

Jason said:


> Would I fit in w/ a Popel Pocket Fishing rod???? Or do I need to bring 1 of my 30 wides????:shifty:


Jason, I don't know about the 30 _wide_, that might be consider high capacity which would make it a salt weapon, and therefore not legal to open carry,but I could be wrong.


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## johnf

milesvdustin said:


> How am I uninformed and uneducated? You used "since" instead of "sense." And you essentially supported my point. You would rather keep your gun hidden to keep yourself from becoming a potential target. That is my stance as well.



Sorry man, guess you missed my sarcasm. Always forget on the since/sense thing. No Sarcasm smileys on this site.


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## bigbulls

> Thanks for proving my point, READ MY POST. You have done lost this one. Have a nice night. Y'all kids place nice with each other. Oh on a serious note if you wanna talk some Wisconsin politics hit me up, I googled it so I know where the state is.


I read it but I guess I misunderstood your post. IDK.


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## johnf

> A 1985 Department of Justice survey of incarcerated felons reported that 57 percent of the felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."
> 
> Researcher Gary Kleck found that 92 percent of criminal attacks are deterred when a gun is merely shown (or, rarely, a warning shot fired). By inference, this means that open carry would have the effect of deterring crime in the same way that a thief might choose another restaurant when he sees police eating at his intended target.



So then 43% of criminals don't care if you have a gun and 8% aren't deterred at all?

That doesn't make me feel any better. 

I'm all for open carry. Not going to do it. :thumbsup:


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## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> You guys have all the laughs you want but I'll tell you one thing, I back up my point of view with something other than pure conjecture. Which I have yet to see from any of you.
> 
> You can have all the opinions you want but when you're talking about your rights I would think you would be a little more serious about the subject. I guess I just expect too much from people.


Because you work at a gun store or stayed at a holiday inn express you are all knowing?


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## PompChaser315

You guys catch anything?


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## pierbound

CCC said:


> Curious as to how this fiasco went ??????????


First of all it went great a lot of support and we had the uninformed folks like yourself and more on this post "No disrespect" because you are misinformed and don't understand that through out time people like myself and florida carry and the folks that attended this event help protect your 2nd amendment rights, although you seem to think other wise, we only can use what we have available to use as a platform, "oh by the way this will be a long post so if you can't read this much info. then I suggest you close this out now" here is some of the things we've done for you,
----------------------------------------------------------- 
Shall Issue Carry Licenses for Military & Vets:
Those who defend our country overseas should be able to defend themselves and their families at home. There have been too many incidences of violence against our troops who have just returned from overseas deployments and found themselves defenseless at home. Florida Carry authored legislation that will insure that our current troops and honorably discharged veterans can obtain a license to carry regardless of age or duty station. The bill will also require that fingerprint cards be accepted from military police and provost so that service members stationed overseas can complete their applications.There are over 8,000 adult service members under the age of 21 living in the State of Florida. Countless more resident veterans and annual military visitors who will have their right the bear arms advanced by these bills.
------------------------------------------------------------

Firearms Preemption Enforceability: Provides penalties for government officials who knowingly & willfully violate Florida's Firearms Preemption Statute. Allows for the collection of attorney’s fees and damages. Passing good state laws is a hollow victory when local governments ignore them.
Florida Carry Co-executive Director Richard Nascak worked tirelessly throughout 2010 to bring the abused preemption issue to light and was a genesis for HB45.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gun Owner Privacy: Prohibits healthcare providers from inquiring, or refusing service for not answering questions, about gun ownership that are not related to medical treatment.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Successful in having all anti-gun ordinances repealed in nearly 300 jurisdictions across the state.
Successful in having all anti-gun signs taken down statewide.
HB 45 made Florida's 24 year old firearms preemption law (F.S. 790.33) enforceable.
Successful in allowing you to store a firearm in your vehicle without fear of being fired from your employer or being shown the door at wal-mart or some other private business because your firearm was in your glove box.
You are now able to purchase and bring back to florida a long gun from a non-contiguous state without fear of prosecution and having your weapon taken.
These are a few thing's from a long list that we've done for you "US" the people you criticize who stand up for you and you can "Hehaw" all you want but the fact is On the second Saturday of each month, Florida Carry holds local meetings for our members and other second amendment advocates throughout the state. And with the restrictive firearm laws we have on the books we are limited to places like the Pier's, Beach's Boat dock's and other places we can fish that are public, The meetings are informal and hosted by local volunteers "Like Myself" Many participants Open Carry and fish during these events. Other participants carry concealed and may or may not fish at the meetings. some may not even carry at all. These monthly informal events are a way for local second amendment advocates to network, keep up-to-date on current legislation & litigation, and make new friends and let the public know why we are out there, Our 1st ever in NWF in Navarre was a success and I will be arranging these in the following months starting with the Okaloosa and Pensacola Pier's and you don't have to attend that's fine but other folks will and I had a lot more positive input and comments from not only locals but tourists on why we're out there, there are the people like us that take the BS from people like you and others on this post but that's the nature of the game and I don't know if your a gun owner or not or have a conceal permit or not but if you are and if you do just remember next time you CC outside you house "WE" defended your right to do that and are working on getting more of your rights back that the state has taken from you. and before someone starts preaching about the legality of these events or anything else related to firearms "READ THE F.S.790 here's the link... http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ml&StatuteYear=2011&Title=->2011->Chapter 790 :thumbup:


----------



## bigbulls

> Because you work at a gun store or stayed at a holiday inn express you are all knowing?


Never have and never will claim to be all knowing but I actually do a little research about different things. You might think about doing the same. Seriously, you keep talking in circles with out ever offering anything of any substance.

You can have all the opinions you want but that doesn't make them true or correct. I could have the opinion that 2+2=10 but that doesn't make it correct does it Opinions don't really mean a thing do they?

Pierbound..... thanks for all you and opencarry do for our gun rights.


----------



## TatSoul

pierbound said:


> First of all it went great a lot of support and we had the uninformed folks like yourself and more on this post "No disrespect" because you are misinformed and don't understand that through out time people like myself and florida carry and the folks that attended this event help protect your 2nd amendment rights, although you seem to think other wise, we only can use what we have available to use as a platform, "oh by the way this will be a long post so if you can't read this much info. then I suggest you close this out now" here is some of the things we've done for you,
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Shall Issue Carry Licenses for Military & Vets:
> Those who defend our country overseas should be able to defend themselves and their families at home. There have been too many incidences of violence against our troops who have just returned from overseas deployments and found themselves defenseless at home. Florida Carry authored legislation that will insure that our current troops and honorably discharged veterans can obtain a license to carry regardless of age or duty station. The bill will also require that fingerprint cards be accepted from military police and provost so that service members stationed overseas can complete their applications.There are over 8,000 adult service members under the age of 21 living in the State of Florida. Countless more resident veterans and annual military visitors who will have their right the bear arms advanced by these bills.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Firearms Preemption Enforceability: Provides penalties for government officials who knowingly & willfully violate Florida's Firearms Preemption Statute. Allows for the collection of attorney’s fees and damages. Passing good state laws is a hollow victory when local governments ignore them.
> Florida Carry Co-executive Director Richard Nascak worked tirelessly throughout 2010 to bring the abused preemption issue to light and was a genesis for HB45.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Gun Owner Privacy: Prohibits healthcare providers from inquiring, or refusing service for not answering questions, about gun ownership that are not related to medical treatment.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Successful in having all anti-gun ordinances repealed in nearly 300 jurisdictions across the state.
> Successful in having all anti-gun signs taken down statewide.
> HB 45 made Florida's 24 year old firearms preemption law (F.S. 790.33) enforceable.
> Successful in allowing you to store a firearm in your vehicle without fear of being fired from your employer or being shown the door at wal-mart or some other private business because your firearm was in your glove box.
> You are now able to purchase and bring back to florida a long gun from a non-contiguous state without fear of prosecution and having your weapon taken.
> These are a few thing's from a long list that we've done for you "US" the people you criticize who stand up for you and you can "Hehaw" all you want but the fact is On the second Saturday of each month, Florida Carry holds local meetings for our members and other second amendment advocates throughout the state. And with the restrictive firearm laws we have on the books we are limited to places like the Pier's, Beach's Boat dock's and other places we can fish that are public, The meetings are informal and hosted by local volunteers "Like Myself" Many participants Open Carry and fish during these events. Other participants carry concealed and may or may not fish at the meetings. some may not even carry at all. These monthly informal events are a way for local second amendment advocates to network, keep up-to-date on current legislation & litigation, and make new friends and let the public know why we are out there, Our 1st ever in NWF in Navarre was a success and I will be arranging these in the following months starting with the Okaloosa and Pensacola Pier's and you don't have to attend that's fine but other folks will and I had a lot more positive input and comments from not only locals but tourists on why we're out there, there are the people like us that take the BS from people like you and others on this post but that's the nature of the game and I don't know if your a gun owner or not or have a conceal permit or not but if you are and if you do just remember next time you CC outside you house "WE" defended your right to do that and are working on getting more of your rights back that the state has taken from you. and before someone starts preaching about the legality of these events or anything else related to firearms "READ THE F.S.790 here's the link... http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ml&StatuteYear=2011&Title=->2011->Chapter 790 :thumbup:


Some people dont and wont ever get it.i do and appreciate what you guys do.To many people becoming scared of guns and all that is going to do is cause everyone to eventually lose there rights.as the years progressed crime became out of control and people wanted the rights to protect themselves in a world where gun control had taken away so many rights to do so.Its good to see people getting back there rights taken by anti gun people that were scared of being around something they knew not much about..


----------



## MikeG

I can read that much, but skipped it anyway.


----------



## fisheye48

TatSoul said:


> Some people dont and wont ever get it.i do and appreciate what you guys do.To many people becoming scared of guns and all that is going to do is cause everyone to eventually lose there rights.as the years progressed crime became out of control and people wanted the rights to protect themselves in a world where gun control had taken away so many rights to do so.Its good to see people getting back there rights taken by anti gun people that were scared of being around something they knew not much about..


Some things are better unseen than heard! its not that the fact people are "afraid" of guns its the fact that there is way to much attention being brought to this subject...the laws are fine the way they are why try and fix them? the more light that is being shed on this the more chance there is of it being changed for the worse....people cant seem to leave a good thing alone


----------



## johnf

bigbulls said:


> You can have all the opinions you want but that doesn't make them true or correct. I could have the opinion that 2+2=10 but that doesn't make it correct does it Opinions don't really mean a thing do they?


You realize you are both saying the same thing, right? Your statistics that you posted don't change my opinion at all though I don't doubt them at all. 

How do you feel about 380 for personal defense? We can throw real statistics around for days and not come to a conclusion. 

Has anyone on here said they are against open carry? I don't remember reading it if they are.


----------



## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> Never have and never will claim to be all knowing but I actually do a little research about different things. You might think about doing the same. Seriously, you keep talking in circles with out ever offering anything of any substance.
> 
> You can have all the opinions you want but that doesn't make them true or correct. I could have the opinion that 2+2=10 but that doesn't make it correct does it Opinions don't really mean a thing do they?
> 
> Pierbound..... thanks for all you and opencarry do for our gun rights.


you can do all the research you want but dont believe everything you read chicken little!


----------



## bigbulls

> I can read that much, but skipped it anyway.


 Why does that not surprise me?


----------



## pierbound

lastcast said:


> Or maybe losing our right to open carry when your actually going out on the river or going camping when you might actually need it. When was the last time someone needed a gun on the pier? I think it should be a law to have a little common sense to even own one, then we wouldn't have to worry about open carry on the pier.


Open Carry while camping yes, unless your going fishing on the river "NO" canoeing "NO" Hiking "NO" riding your ATV "NO" Horseback riding "NO" Jogging "NO" Walking in the woods with you wife "NO' Sitting down in a friends house or restaurant and taking your jacket off "NO" it's the thinking from people like you who make restrictive gun laws like we have now, you will come back with some BS comment but we'll still keep fighting for your right's.:thumbdown:


----------



## pierbound

DoneDeal2 said:


> I would hope no one got shot. It would only look worse on an already stupid event.


For such a stupid event you sure put your input in don't you, and that is what we want input good or bad, it just goes to solidify our uphill fight against people like you, oh aren't you the LEO?


----------



## fisheye48

pierbound said:


> Open Carry while camping yes, unless your going fishing on the river "NO" canoeing "NO" Hiking "NO" riding your ATV "NO" Horseback riding "NO" Jogging "NO" Walking in the woods with you wife "NO' Sitting down in a friends house or restaurant and taking your jacket off "NO" it's the thinking from people like you who make restrictive gun laws like we have now, you will come back with some BS comment but we'll still keep fighting for your right's.:thumbdown:


please tell me the point of open carry other than showing people how much of a badass you think you are...just get your CCW and be happy...its wackjobs like you and bigbulls that keep pushing and pushing till the lawmakers have had enough and take it away from all of us....please just sit down and be happy with what you do have until you screw it up for all of us!


----------



## bigbulls

> You realize you are both saying the same thing, right. Your statistics that you posted don't change my opinion at all though I don't doubt them at all.
> 
> How do you feel about 380 for personal defense? We can throw real statistics around for days and not come to a conclusion.
> 
> Has anyone on here said they are against open carry? I don't remember reading it if they are.


It doesn't have to change your opinion about what you choose to do personally. I'm not here advocating that every one go out and open carry. That's a personal choice we all make for ourselves. I want the right to carry a side arm by what ever method I choose. I would prefer to have as much information as possible to make an informed decision about what I do for myself and my family than to just sit here and say that ________ is an idiot for having the opinion he does. 


Yes, many times people here at PFF have said that they are against open carry. Not only on the pier but in general. 

I prefer to have all of my rights as s citizen of this country instead of having them infringed upon by the state.


----------



## fisheye48

pierbound said:


> For such a stupid event you sure put your input in don't you, and that is what we want input good or bad, it just goes to solidify our uphill fight against people like you, oh aren't you the LEO?


no one is "fighting" you! we are just saying stop while your ahead! and nobody has they are against open carry


----------



## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> It doesn't have to change your opinion about what you choose to do personally. I'm not here advocating that every one go out and open carry. That's a personal choice we all make for ourselves. I want the right to carry a side arm by what ever method I choose. I would prefer to have as much information as possible to make an informed decision about what I do for myself and my family than to just sit here and say that ________ is an idiot for having the opinion he does.
> 
> 
> *Yes, many times people here at PFF have said that they are against open carry. Not only on the pier but in general.
> *
> I prefer to have all of my rights as s citizen of this country instead of having them infringed upon by the state.


prove it!!!


----------



## pierbound

fisheye48 said:


> Guess you can't read either I didn't say use it against common sense....I said use your common sense and you should figure it out.... But wait you wanna take a gun on a pier...might need to bust out your heater on a green meat fish or a bobo that gets out of control or those pesky boat fishermen... Btw whats the limit on boat fishermen and kayaks now????


You seem to be one of the same fishermen that will throw a ling jig at a surfer or a kayaker or a boat that gets to close to the pier, or someone running kids or adult's or gun owners over during ling season because they spot a ling, and then 15 clowns run everyone over to throw on them,it's not us the gun owners people need to watch out for it's Fishermen like I just described and you may be one you my friend have a lot of nerve you and others on this post talk out of both ends and know absolutely nothing about what we are doing.


----------



## bigbulls

> please tell me the point of open carry other than showing people how much of a badass you think you are...just get your CCW and be happy...its wackjobs like you and bigbulls that keep pushing and pushing till the lawmakers have had enough and take it away from all of us....please just sit down and be happy with what you do have until you screw it up for all of us!


The point of open carry is that IT"S YOUR FRIGGIN RIGHT TO DO SO UNDER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION! What is so God dang hard to understand about that one simple little fact.

You shouldn't need to apply for a CCW either. IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO CC UNDER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION!

Please sit down and be happy that you can only keep two snapper.
Please sit down and be happy that you can have universal health care.
Please sit down and be happy that our dollar is still worth what it is.
Please sit down and be happy that in California they can't have more than ten rounds of ammo.
Please sit down and be happy that if you travel through new york with a hand gun you will be subject to arrest and imprisonment.
Please sit down and be happy that we can't own full auto rifles with out special taxes and paperwork... but not in all states.


Please keep sitting down while other people work to make sure that your rights remain in tact... at least the ones you still have left.


----------



## fisheye48

pierbound said:


> You seem to be one of the same fishermen that will throw a ling jig at a surfer or a kayaker or a boat that gets to close to the pier, or someone running kids or adult's or gun owners over during ling season because they spot a ling, and then 15 clowns run everyone over to throw on them,it's not us the gun owners people need to watch out for it's Fishermen like I just described and you may be one you my friend have a lot of nerve you and others on this post talk out of both ends and know absolutely nothing about what we are doing.


you couldnt be farther from the truth.....maybe its time to loosen your tinfoil and let the crazy take a little break


----------



## PompChaser315

DID YOU GUYS CATCH ANY FISHHHHHH?!?!?! Thats the only thing i could give a rats ass about


----------



## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> The point of open carry is that IT"S YOUR FRIGGIN RIGHT TO DO SO UNDER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION! What is so God dang hard to understand about that one simple little fact.
> 
> *You shouldn't need to apply for a CCW either*. IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO CC UNDER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION!
> 
> Please sit down and be happy that you can only keep two snapper.
> Please sit down and be happy that you can have universal health care.
> Please sit down and be happy that our dollar is still worth what it is.
> Please sit down and be happy that in California they can't have more than ten rounds of ammo.
> Please sit down and be happy that if you travel through new york with a hand gun you will be subject to arrest and imprisonment.
> Please sit down and be happy that we can't own full auto rifles with out special taxes and paperwork... but not in all states.
> 
> 
> Please keep sitting down while other people work to make sure that your rights remain in tact... at least the ones you still have left.


please tell me your kidding!!!! Your all for letting convicted felons walk around with a weapon concealed? if thats the case why not arm all of pensacola...can i come into your store and just walk out with any weapon i want also? Laws are in place so that not every tom, dick, harry, and jane can do as they please!


----------



## johnf

bigbulls said:


> It doesn't have to change your opinion about what you choose to do personally. I'm not here advocating that every one go out and open carry. That's a personal choice we all make for ourselves. I want the right to carry a side arm by what ever method I choose. I would prefer to have as much information as possible to make an informed decision about what I do for myself and my family than to just sit here and say that ________ is an idiot for having the opinion he does.
> 
> 
> Yes, many times people here at PFF have said that they are against open carry. Not only on the pier but in general.
> 
> I prefer to have all of my rights as s citizen of this country instead of having them infringed upon by the state.


Ok, I guess we're more in agreement than I thought. You do seem to dismiss everyone's opinion as invalid. If it came up in a vote you're not helping the cause much by that tactic. I think a better way would be to point out how the pier thing went down. I still haven't gotten a straight answer on that. Was there anything to it or did it just kinda happen and then go away in a few days like I thought. 

I do think there is a place for open carry, just not most places for me. Oklahoma opens it up in Nov. I think I may take a drive to Tulsa to eat at a Chlli's with G19 on my side for fun.

While I agree with you in principle and would love it to be legal, I think you're killing your chances of changing anyone's mind with the way you talk to them. 

tight lines
jf


----------



## fisheye48

FUPAGUNT said:


> DID YOU GUYS CATCH ANY FISHHHHHH?!?!?! Thats the only thing i could give a rats ass about


probably not...to busy measuring pecker size with who had the biggest/coolest gun


----------



## pierbound

Yes we caught a couple of king's a few Bonita and some mullet, I threw on about 40 row mullet but my freezer is so full of fish I gave all of them away, I'm out there 4-5 times a week, yesterday was slow compared to other days, I wish it was better but that's why it's fishing and not catching.


----------



## MikeG

pierbound said:


> For such a stupid event you sure put your input in don't you, and that is what we want input good or bad, it just goes to solidify our uphill fight against people like you, oh aren't you the LEO?


Yep your right I'm an LEO. Your not changing my mind. The whole group look like a bunch of clowns walking around a pier with some wearing thigh holsters and shoulder holsters. You guys should have dressed like Miami Vice it would have been fitting. If only there was a perfect state where the normal folks could move to get away from dumbasses like I saw in your pics.


----------



## PompChaser315

pierbound said:


> Yes we caught a couple of king's a few Bonita and some mullet, I threw on about 40 row mullet but my freezer is so full of fish I gave all of them away, I'm out there 4-5 times a week, yesterday was slow compared to other days, I wish it was better but that's why it's fishing and not catching.


Nice thats not too bad! I was out there last night the 7th and /I didnt see anyone carrying a gun openly. Im out there at least 4 days a week also and Ive only seen someone open carrying one time. In fact he is in one of your pics, carries an FNP I think


----------



## bigbulls

fisheye48 said:


> prove it!!!


http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f48/florida-open-carry-petition-80177/



> please tell me your kidding!!!! Your all for letting convicted felons walk around with a weapon concealed? if thats the case why not arm all of pensacola...can i come into your store and just walk out with any weapon i want also? Laws are in place so that not every tom, dick, harry, and jane can do as they please!


When was the last time a criminal gave a rip about the laws?



> You do seem to dismiss everyone's opinion as invalid. If it came up in a vote you're not helping the cause much by that tactic.


I'm not dismissing it at all. I did nothing more than ask questions hoping that it would get them to actually think and research their opinions and if they were to prove me wrong then so be it and I will admit I was wrong, but that seems to be too much trouble and most people want to simply keep up the "your an idiot" mind set and talk in circles. 



> While I agree with you in principle and would love it to be legal, *I think you're killing your chances of changing anyone's mind with the way you talk to them. *


How am I talking to them in any manner other than polite? I have been the one taking the brunt of the insults here on this thread because I was wanting them to back up their stances. Nothing more.


----------



## MikeG

fisheye48 said:


> probably not...to busy measuring pecker size with who had the biggest/coolest gun


Now that's funny right there


----------



## fisheye48

DoneDeal2 said:


> Yep your right I'm an LEO. Your not changing my mind. The whole group look like a bunch of clowns walking around a pier with some wearing thigh holsters and shoulder holsters. You guys should have dressed like Miami Vice it would have been fitting. If only there was a perfect state where the normal folks could move to get away from dumbasses like I saw in your pics.


dont forget the multiple mags pouches! becasue you have to have a full combat load when going to the pier!


----------



## fisheye48

please dont tell me thats a plastic gun!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

plus that tacticool leg holster is a must


----------



## johnf

DoneDeal2 said:


> Yep your right I'm an LEO. Your not changing my mind. The whole group look like a bunch of clowns walking around a pier with some wearing thigh holsters and shoulder holsters. You guys should have dressed like Miami Vice it would have been fitting. If only there was a perfect state where the normal folks could move to get away from dumbasses like I saw in your pics.



Not really sure why you quoted me there.:confused1:

So are you against open carry? If so, why? 

Though it's not for me personally it seems that states that have it do have less crime. Wouldn't that make your job easier? Would it not make your job less stressful knowing who is being honest about having a gun? I've got a couple cop friends and both say they are a lot more at ease with someone that has a CCW permit than others because they figure everyone is honest about what they have. Would open carry not do the same thing for a reasonable police officer? 

Just curious, do police officers open carry for a tactical reason? If it's a valid defensive reason then shouldn't everyone be able to have the right to defend themselves from attack in the best way possible?


----------



## pierbound

fisheye48 said:


> probably not...to busy measuring pecker size with who had the biggest/coolest gun


That comment and all your others tell us what kind of person you are.........LOL
real cool, excuse me and I really apologize because I really don't insult people like I'm going insult you "BUT" "STUPID PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BREED" ..........LOL and you live in "WEST TEXAS".........LOL........commenting on what goes on over in paradise..........LOL............you crack me up ........as a matter of fact all you people who have anything negative to say about what "WE" do for your gun rights crack me up and it's all factual.............LOL..........I'm going to bed and I'll take this up tomorrow.......bigbulls I would not waste anymore time on this post,they just don't get it and the fact that they brought it back up shows me it's eating at them......it's always been this way you have the givers and the takers we give and they take the benefits of our work........and that can't be disputed.
:thumbup:


----------



## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f48/florida-open-carry-petition-80177/
> 
> When was the last time a criminal gave a rip about the laws?
> 
> I'm not dismissing it at all. I did nothing more than ask questions hoping that it would get them to actually think and research their opinions and if they were to prove me wrong then so be it and I will admit I was wrong, but that seems to be too much trouble and most people want to simply keep up the "your an idiot" mind set and talk in circles.
> 
> How am I talking to them in any manner other than polite? I have been the one taking the brunt of the insults here on this thread because I was wanting them to back up their stances. Nothing more.


read the whole 5 pages and nobody said they were against it...just didnt think open carry was a good idea but have their ccw and signed the petition...so try again


----------



## MikeG

johnf said:


> Not really sure why you quoted me there.:confused1:
> 
> So are you against open carry? If so, why?
> 
> Though it's not for me personally it seems that states that have it do have less crime. Wouldn't that make your job easier? Would it not make your job less stressful knowing who is being honest about having a gun? I've got a couple cop friends and both say they are a lot more at ease with someone that has a CCW permit than others because they figure everyone is honest about what they have. Would open carry not do the same thing for a reasonable police officer?
> 
> Just curious, do police officers open carry for a tactical reason? If it's a valid defensive reason then shouldn't everyone be able to have the right to defend themselves from attack in the best way possible?


Im not sure how your quote got in that post but I removed it


----------



## johnf

fisheye48 said:


> please dont tell me thats a plastic gun!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> plus that tacticool leg holster is a must


Dang, that just looks stupid. I bought one of those things for when I'm riding my ATV in the deer lease. Not worth a crap. I think it's in a box or the trash.


----------



## fisheye48

pierbound said:


> That comment and all your others tell us what kind of person you are.........LOL
> real cool, excuse me and I really apologize because I really don't insult people like I'm going insult you "BUT" "STUPID PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BREED" ..........LOL and you live in "WEST TEXAS".........LOL........commenting on what goes on over in paradise..........LOL............you crack me up ........as a matter of fact all you people who have anything negative to say about what "WE" do for your gun rights crack me up and it's all factual.............LOL..........I'm going to bed and I'll take this up tomorrow.......bigbulls I would not waste anymore time on this post,they just don't get it and the fact that they brought it back up shows me it's eating at them......it's always been this way you have the givers and the takers we give and they take the benefits of our work........and that can't be disputed.
> :thumbup:


im not from west texas you dumbass! im from pensacola lived there 30 yrs and still have ties in pensacola so try again!


----------



## johnf

DoneDeal2 said:


> Im not sure how your quote got in that post but I removed it



Saw that after my little rant was posted. 

No harm, no foul. :thumbsup:


----------



## MikeG

johnf said:


> Dang, that just looks stupid. I bought one of those things for when I'm riding my ATV in the deer lease. Not worth a crap. I think it's in a box or the trash.


Hell it's of no tactical use if he's not going to wear it correctly anyway.


----------



## bigbulls

> read the whole 5 pages and nobody said they were against it...just didnt think open carry was a good idea but have their ccw and signed the petition...so try again


Numerous people said they were against it the proposed law to OC in Florida and refused to sign the OC petition.


----------



## fisheye48

bigbulls said:


> Numerous people said they were against it the proposed law to OC in Florida and refused to sign the OC petition.


please show me since i missed it


----------



## pierbound

DoneDeal2 said:


> Yep your right I'm an LEO. Your not changing my mind. The whole group look like a bunch of clowns walking around a pier with some wearing thigh holsters and shoulder holsters. You guys should have dressed like Miami Vice it would have been fitting. If only there was a perfect state where the normal folks could move to get away from dumbasses like I saw in your pics.


You know DoneDeal2 I have 2 son's in LE and if they had your left stupid mindset I would boot them in the A$$, fortunately they don't and it's LEO's like you that make waves for law abiding citizens exercising our rights as american citizens," and the 2nd amendment. I don't suppose you would elaborate which agency you work for, "I didn't think you would". we already know what the Florida sheriff's association thinks about lawful gun ownership and carrying by AKA "Responsible Gun Owners" so why don't you make yourself disappear, your comments are now pointless. you have that mindset of other LEO's who don't want guns in the hands of legal citizens...you are who we need to weed out of the system to be able to get our rights back....you as a LEO should be neutral but your not you spew your anti-gun BS.:thumbdown:


----------



## pierbound

fisheye48 said:


> im not from west texas you dumbass! im from pensacola lived there 30 yrs and still have ties in pensacola so try again!


But you "LIVE IN WEST TEXAS" and what's with the cussing..........a little irritated.........LOL


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## fisheye48

pierbound said:


> You know DoneDeal2* I have 2 son's in LE and if they had your left stupid mindset I would boot them in the A$$,* fortunately they don't and it's LEO's like you that make waves for law abiding citizens exercising our rights as american citizens," and the 2nd amendment. I don't suppose you would elaborate which agency you work for, "I didn't think you would". we already know what the Florida sheriff's association thinks about lawful gun ownership and carrying by AKA "Responsible Gun Owners" so why don't you make yourself disappear, your comments are now pointless. you have that mindset of other LEO's who don't want guns in the hands of legal citizens...you are who we need to weed out of the system to be able to get our rights back....you as a LEO should be neutral but your not you spew your anti-gun BS.:thumbdown:


that quote says everything i need to know about you....if they dont agree with your tinfoil ideas then they are wrong...gotcha...to easy!


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## fisheye48

pierbound said:


> But you "LIVE IN WEST TEXAS" and what's with the cussing..........a little irritated.........LOL


nope just calling a spade a spade...and it doesnt matter where i live im still a FL resident!


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## scubapro

The only time/place that I would personally open carry is in the woods/wilderness. I have no reason to open carry in civilization. I see no value to it as a deterrent to crime. It only draws attention to the one carrying openly - and could actually make the wearer a target.

I give open carry about as much value as a concealed carry badge...

I prefer to be the only person knowing that I'm armed - and how I'm equipped on a given day.


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## pierbound

johnf said:


> Dang, that just looks stupid. I bought one of those things for when I'm riding my ATV in the deer lease. Not worth a crap. I think it's in a box or the trash.


Hey Johnf, this guy came out on the pier to mock us but what he don't realize is the even tho it's his favorite toy gun........LOL.........it's a plus for us.


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## johnf

DoneDeal2 said:


> Hell it's of no tactical use if he's not going to wear it correctly anyway.



I'm pretty sure that's the same one I got. I think it was at gander mt. or academy sports. Can't remember the brand, but it fell down constantly, not worth a darn, but for $15 it was worth a try. Bought the OTW holster after that. Very comfortable even riding the 4 wheeler. Not the best CC holster because it's a little abrasive on the side and prints a little. It's better in the winter when wearing layers.


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## MikeG

Exactly. Big rights guy. Doesn't like free speech. He just doesn't get it. I thought you were done. Why should LEO's be neutral. I totally believe in lawful ownership and deal with gun toting shitbags everyday. It's not the lawful owners I worry about but I think its silly to wear your gun to the pier. Again keep giving people a reason to take gun rights away, your doing a good job.


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## bigbulls

> Hey Johnf, this guy came out on the pier to mock us but what he don't realize is the even tho it's his favorite toy gun........LOL.........it's a plus for us.


I was wondering why he had a blue toy gun in his holster. 
I wonder if he is posting in this thread?




> The only time/place that I would personally open carry is in the woods/wilderness. I have no reason to open carry in civilization. I see no value to it as a deterrent to crime. It only draws attention to the one carrying openly - and could actually make the wearer a target.


But, do you sit here and call someone an idiot for choosing to OC in public? Or, do you support their right to do so even though you choose not to?


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## MikeG

Alright I'm done. My opinion doesn't change


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## pierbound

scubapro said:


> The only time/place that I would personally open carry is in the woods/wilderness. I have no reason to open carry in civilization. I see no value to it as a deterrent to crime. It only draws attention to the one carrying openly - and could actually make the wearer a target.
> 
> I give open carry about as much value as a concealed carry badge...
> 
> I prefer to be the only person knowing that I'm armed - and how I'm equipped on a given day.


OC doesn't make you a target and there is no evidence to prove that as a matter of fact the FBI did a study and found that in states that people OC crime is less then states that CC because the fact that a criminal see's a weapon takes the easy victim out of the equation. There are some who criticize open carry and claim it will make you more of a target or ‘the first one shot’ when a robber walks into the 7-11, despite the absolute lack of credible evidence that this has ever happened. If the robber walks in and sees that you’re armed, his whole plan has encountered an unexpected variable. In bank robberies where he might expect to see an armed guard he will have already factored that possibility into his plan, but only for the armed guard, not for open or concealed carry citizens. No robber robs a bank without at least a rudimentary plan. Nevertheless, being present for a bank robbery is an extremely remote possibility for most of us regardless of our preferred method of handgun carry, so let’s go back in the 7-11. If the robber sees someone is armed he is forced to either significantly alter the plan or abort it outright. Robbing is an inherently apprehensive occupation, and one that doesn’t respond well to instant modifications. He is not prepared to commit murder when he only planned for larceny. He knows that a petty robbery will not garner the intense police manhunt a murder would. He doesn’t know if you’re an armed citizen or a police officer and isn’t going to take the time to figure it out. Either way, if someone in the 7-11 is unexpectedly armed, how many others might be similarly adorned and where might they be? Does this unexpectedly armed individual have a partner who is likewise armed nearby, someone who is watching right now? Self preservation compels him to abort the plan for one that is less risky. So we see that the logic matches the history; open carriers are not the first ones shot because it doesn’t make sense in any common street crime scenario that they would be. If your personal self protection plan emphasizes “Hollywood” style crimes over the more realistic street mugging, it might be best to stay home.
One other statement against open carry I hear is that it damages public perception of firearms owners, or that by carrying openly we are not being good ambassadors to the public. While there are some people who have a genuine fear of firearms, due either to some horrible past experience or anti-gun indoctrination, the majority of people are either indifferent to them or quite fascinated by them. I’ve never kept track of the dozens of fellow citizens I’ve encountered who have marveled at the idea of open carry, but I do know exactly how many have expressed displeasure at it; one. People are scared of many things for many reasons; however, pretending those things do not exist only perpetuates the fear. Someone who is disturbed by open carry is going to be every bit as disturbed by concealed carry. The only effective way to overcome a fear is to come to the intellectual realization that the phobia is based on emotion and not on fact. By being a firsthand witness that a firearm was carried responsibly and peaceably, and wasn’t being carried in the commission of a crime, one who was apprehensive about firearms discovers their fear is not fact based, but emotional. Thus, open carry can be a very effectual way of helping to overcome the emotionally based fear of the firearm. After all, you’d be much more likely to believe in ghosts if you saw one rather than if you listened to a ghost story around a campfire. In other words, we give significantly more credibility to the things we experience than we do to the things we hear. The bottom line is that this argument is made by people who don’t, cant, or haven’t carried openly; those of us who do so on a regular basis have an entirely different experience.
:thumbup:


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## johnf

bigbulls said:


> I was wondering why he had a blue toy gun in his holster.
> I wonder if he is posting in this thread?


That's too funny. I just noticed the crappy holster before.


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## scubapro

bigbulls said:


> But, do you sit here and call someone an idiot for choosing to OC in public? Or, do you support their right to do so even though you choose not to?


I don't believe that having an "open carry" event will produce the supportive reaction that is desired. It gives those who would like to take away our ability to carry concealed an opportunity to spin the participants as "nuts" along with the photo op to support their position.

Wearing camo, tactical rigs, combat loads, and shoulder holsters on a public fishing pier - really?!? No way that is going to be taken seriously by the majority of voters as an incentive to change the law to allow open carry...sorry.


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## scubapro

Quote all the stats you want. If I was a criminal who wanted to obtain a weapon - and I observe a doofus (someone I could size up as NOT practicing good situational awareness, nor with the air and presence of having the training/skills to employ the weapon) who was open carrying, yes - like a good predator, I would stalk and wait for the right opportunity to strike and disarm.


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## bigbulls

> I don't believe that having an "open carry" event will produce the supportive reaction that is desired. It gives those who would like to take away our ability to carry concealed an opportunity to spin the participants as "nuts" along with the photo op to support their position.
> 
> Wearing camo, tactical rigs, combat loads, and shoulder holsters on a public fishing pier - really?!? No way that is going to be taken seriously by the majority of voters as an incentive to change the law to allow open carry...sorry.


I understand your opinion about the pier event but what I am asking is if you support an individuals right to OC even though you choose not to OC?

The guy with the tactical leg rig was said to be there mocking the event and decided to wear a toy gun in his holster. Probably went to Academy specifically to buy the leg rig just for the pier event.




> If I was a criminal who wanted to obtain a weapon - and I observe a doofus (someone I could size up as NOT practicing good situational awareness, nor with the air and presence of having the training/skills to employ the weapon) who was open carrying, yes - like a good predator, I would stalk and wait for the right opportunity to strike and disarm.


Fortunately the average criminal isn't that smart. Hell, I'm smart enough to observe and stalk someone to disarm them but that's a hell of a risk to take for a few bucks. Personally I'd have the smarts to either wait until that guy left the store or move down the road to another location.


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## johnf

scubapro said:


> Quote all the stats you want. If I was a criminal who wanted to obtain a weapon - and I observe a doofus (someone I could size up as NOT practicing good situational awareness, nor with the air and presence of having the training/skills to employ the weapon) who was open carrying, yes - like a good predator, I would stalk and wait for the right opportunity to strike and disarm.



You sir, are a criminal mastermind :notworthy:. 

Also there are those people who have absolutely no respect for life, don't care if they go to prison and would shoot the first time they saw a threat. That may only be that 8%, but not a chance I want to take. 

I'm not a big guy and could see myself loosing a fight with a big guy or tweekin' meth head who wants my gun. If he doesn't know I've got it, I think that's a plus. 

BTW my official OC outfit is the same as my official CC outfit only with the t-shirt tucked in. I think all the military looking stuff is a bit over the top myself.


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## scubapro

Numerous LEOs have been attacked & disarmed by bad guys over the years - sometimes with a resulting fatality of the officer as a result.

Thus, why training in weapon retention & requirements for high retention holsters.

If a bad guy who has already been "caught" in an encounter with a uniformed & trained LEO chooses to attack & attempt to disarm - it stands to reason that the average Joe practicing open carry who isn't on edge to fight back would be an easy target of opportunity.


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## pierbound

DoneDeal2 said:


> Exactly. Big rights guy. Doesn't like free speech. He just doesn't get it. I thought you were done. Why should LEO's be neutral. I totally believe in lawful ownership and deal with gun toting shitbags everyday. It's not the lawful owners I worry about but I think its silly to wear your gun to the pier. Again keep giving people a reason to take gun rights away, your doing a good job.


You think it's silly to wear our gun to the pier,and now we are gun toting shit bags because the state lets you do what you want with your badge " like harass lawful people OC on a pier fishing" 790.33(3)(h) look it up if it's lawful we can do it you may not think it's right but it's lawful and I see that you would be the smartass cop on the pier telling OC'S fishing that they shouldnlt be doing that and telling us that you counld charge us with F.S.790.10, go look it up and you still don't get it about carrying on the pier or other places that we can carry, so why do police carry openly .......Hmmmmm maybe because it's faster and easier then drawing your firearm from under your uniform if the need arises, here's a 2 scenario's me and you going to watch a football game at a friends house you unarmed and me CC a thug approaches us from the other side of the street and looks at us and to him we are 50-50 either both are armed or not or one is armed, anyway our odd's are 50-50 he pick you he get's money,he picks me he pick's getting shot if I get my gun out from under my shit while he stands there with his in his hand, scenario 2 me and you going to watch a football game at a friends house you unarmed and me OC a thug approaches us from the other side of the street and looks at us and see's me OC and now encountered a problem and keeps on walking, open carry is not bad, oc, the FBI did a study in 2006 on violent crime and found that criminals do not carry open they do not draw attention to them selves and don't carry in holsters so 99.99% are lawful gun owners, what we are doing isn't to promote OC on fishing pier's we're using the only platform we have to let the public know about the restrictive gun laws on the books for Lawful gun owners,
We had people come up and talk to us some local and some from out of state I talked and explained some of the laws and what's been changed last year in the 2011-2012 session and I gave out information to them, I had a couple who moved from California a few months ago and was interested in what we were doing I explained gave them some info. and they were on board as were 7-8 others you can say and think what you want about us but we understand who we are fighting.


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## scubapro

bigbulls said:


> I understand your opinion about the pier event but what I am asking is if you support an individuals right to OC even though you choose not to OC?


I support concealed carry - but not open carry in public, except in a wood/wilderness environment.


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## johnf

pierbound said:


> You think it's silly to wear our gun to the pier,and now we are gun toting shit bags because the state lets you do what you want with your badge " like harass lawful people OC on a pier fishing" 790.33(3)(h) look it up if it's lawful we can do it you may not think it's right but it's lawful and I see that you would be the smartass cop on the pier telling OC'S fishing that they shouldnlt be doing that and telling us that you counld charge us with F.S.790.10, go look it up and you still don't get it about carrying on the pier or other places that we can carry, so why do police carry openly .......Hmmmmm maybe because it's faster and easier then drawing your firearm from under your uniform if the need arises, here's a 2 scenario's me and you going to watch a football game at a friends house you unarmed and me CC a thug approaches us from the other side of the street and looks at us and to him we are 50-50 either both are armed or not or one is armed, anyway our odd's are 50-50 he pick you he get's money,he picks me he pick's getting shot if I get my gun out from under my shit while he stands there with his in his hand, scenario 2 me and you going to watch a football game at a friends house you unarmed and me OC a thug approaches us from the other side of the street and looks at us and see's me OC and now encountered a problem and keeps on walking, open carry is not bad, oc, the FBI did a study in 2006 on violent crime and found that criminals do not carry open they do not draw attention to them selves and don't carry in holsters so 99.99% are lawful gun owners, what we are doing isn't to promote OC on fishing pier's we're using the only platform we have to let the public know about the restrictive gun laws on the books for Lawful gun owners,
> We had people come up and talk to us some local and some from out of state I talked and explained some of the laws and what's been changed last year in the 2011-2012 session and I gave out information to them, I had a couple who moved from California a few months ago and was interested in what we were doing I explained gave them some info. and they were on board as were 7-8 others you can say and think what you want about us but we understand who we are fighting.


Why would you have your gun there anyway. I don't think you have to conceal it that much. Is that not uncomfortable? How often do you clean your gun?


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## pierbound

scubapro said:


> Numerous LEOs have been attacked & disarmed by bad guys over the years - sometimes with a resulting fatality of the officer as a result.
> 
> Thus, why training in weapon retention & requirements for high retention holsters.
> 
> If a bad guy who has already been "caught" in an encounter with a uniformed & trained LEO chooses to attack & attempt to disarm - it stands to reason that the average Joe practicing open carry who isn't on edge to fight back would be an easy target of opportunity.


But there are 2 differences to your scenarios 1 is a felon gets pulled over by LEO's and know he did something that will earn him time he has no choice but to fight or grab a gun to stay free because the LEO will not go with out the felon he is in a no win situation, the other is a felon wants to rob someone walking down the street and he catches up and notices the glock 22 on the victims belt, in this situation he has a choice and he leaves, even without retention holsters.:thumbup:


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## scubapro

No - he clubs you over the head when you're not looking - and takes the Glock22 in addition to your wallet. Then he is emboldened to rob a store with your weapon.... Just as likely an outcome as your scenario.


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## johnf

Dang guys. I thought you were going to bed. My contacts are scaling up. I'm going to bed.......................with my gun.:laughing:


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## pierbound

scubapro said:


> I support concealed carry - but not open carry in public, except in a wood/wilderness environment.


you can't OC in the wood/wilderness environment without getting arrested for Open Carry, look deer season is not going on in the middle of July and if your in the woods your not hunting and you don't OC or you will be arrested and these are what we are bringing to the public in these places "Information" it's our only meeting place with people, it's not to OC every time you go fishing it's to let the public know that we need the choice to be able to OC during times like this canoeing,hiking,atv riding,horse back riding,jogging and yes fishing, sitting in a restaurant or friends or your parents yard and it's not your own you will be arrested and many more.


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## scubapro

There is no tactical advantage to open carry over concealed carry - with the proper equipment & training.

The deterrence argument for open carry is very weak to non-existent.

The ONLY thing open carry gives you that concealed carry does not - is attention.

I personally believe that attention is the sole motivator for open carry advocates.


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## pierbound

going now talk in the morning


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## pierbound

johnf said:


> Why would you have your gun there anyway. I don't think you have to conceal it that much. Is that not uncomfortable? How often do you clean your gun?


I wear my firearm always criminals don't strike when your just at home,when I go to the pier 4-5 times a week I sometimes conceal and sometimes OC depends on what shirt I wear or how hot it is,yes I clean my firearm very day, no it's not uncomfortable, 99% of the people say nothing they fish next to me and talk to me now I realize that the few that have a different opinion about my firearm won't say anything to may face but even if they do it's their opinion, people should not feel threatened being any wear there is a person OC just like CC and many people stand and interact with CC all the time, and the only thing that matters is which person concealing is the bad guy, and the OC is not the bad guy.


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## MikeG

Pierbound every post you write is ridiculous. First go read my last again. I didn't call you a gun toting shitbag. I stated that I deal with them every day. That would mean I have Hmmmm let's see, i have probably almost 20 years experience dealing with armed individuals who aren't law abiding. With that said, when Is the last time you got that experience. Well for me that would be last Thursday having to clear a house and finding my bad guy sitting on a bed with body armor, a short barrel 12 gauge, a 38 revolver, a glock 40 and a raven 25 auto, and a cache of ammo and dope.I don't need you to quote Statute or what kind of pier cop you think I would be.I arrest hundreds of violent armed suspects a year and rarely even have to use any force. My partner and I have recovered 18 guns in the last two weeks.I know when to strike and how to negotiate the situation. I'm sure you would have been a Cowboy and discharged your gun or either just pissed your pants.You have no idea. Id hate to know you have two sons in law enforcement if they are half as ignorant to life as you. Keep trying,I know my experience and my reputation stands for itself in this community with other LEO' s, lawyers and Judges on the state and federal level. I'm also an avid gun collector and would venture to bet I've bought more guns in the last 5 years than most folks own in a lifetime! Yep I believe in the second amendment but I also believe in common sense. DISCLAIMER This was typed on a cell phone if you venture to try to put "bullet holes " in my grammar or spelling.


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## pierbound

scubapro said:


> There is no tactical advantage to open carry over concealed carry - with the proper equipment & training.
> 
> The deterrence argument for open carry is very weak to non-existent.
> 
> The ONLY thing open carry gives you that concealed carry does not - is attention.
> 
> I personally believe that attention is the sole motivator for open carry advocates.


There is a 99-100% chance of not being a victim, and why do you insist on believing that because we're on the pier with some OC and some CC that all we want to do is OC, that mindset is all wrong, you are misinformed and uneducated in what the 2nd amendment gives us and stands for and self defense as a whole , and attention is what people like you and your mindset give us and information to the public about what gun rights the government wants to take or has taken from us and it's up to us to work on getting our rights back, look we have fishermen on the pier that were jumping up and down and screaming "That's not right" because summerwind condo's wanted to ban shark fishing on the pier because a few tourists seen a tiger shark dragged on to the beach and killed. sharks on the pier are more dangerous then people with handguns OC or CC and I've seen the way tourists flock to see a shark landed on the pier and they get way to close when they're thrashing around but that's different for me to send my e-mails like I did and go to the County Commissioners meeting like I did and sign the petition like I did in opposition of this ban that they wanted to put on us "but that's different"


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