# Opinions ( keep it brief and civil)



## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

I like hunting as much as everyone else and go several times a week during most months. I've seen tons of deer this year and many were bucks. With that said I've passed on many (actually every one so far) rack bucks that were club legal where I hunt , because I just considered them to be young or small.Some were killed by other hunters after I let em walk. I by no means have killed a bunch of big bucks but I don't need a set of truck horns that bad. I have noticed that many people on public and private land don't have a problem killing every deer that meets the state or club legal definition. I do understand that many people aren't privy to doe tags and need meat for the freezer. What's everyone's opinion on the matter ? My opinion is that I would rather stack a few does during archery and maybe shoot a buck or two during gun if I needed more. I just don't see the sense in shooting every spike and cow horn in the woods. I remember a time when you could hunt for weeks without seeing a deer around here, much less a buck. Please keep it civil and brief or this will get locked or deleted.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I agree with you, we go through a bunch of deer meat at my house, eating it 3-4 nights a week. I'd much rather shoot nannies than a young Buck.... that being said, I've only killed 3 deer this year and probably going to run out of meat, so the next legal Buck I see dies, only because I can't legally kill a doe. 
It sucks, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

I let my eight year old pass on numerous spikes cowhorns and 4 points this year waiting on a decent buck for him to shoot. He's very patient for an 8yo and feels the same way I do. We only killed 2 does this year and won't have enough deer meat to get us through next season. I just won't shoot a spike to say "its meat in the freezer." To each his own though..


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

This is EXACTLY why I got off my last lease 4 years ago, and honestly don't know if I will EVER get the opportunity to hunt again, because I will not belong to a "If it's brown it's down" mentality lease. I like getting a doe early in the year for meat in the freezer, then I want to horn hunt, would LOVE to find a lease SOME DAY, that had a good group of guys who would manage deer year after year.


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## FLfishR (Oct 3, 2007)

*Opinion*

It sounds like you need to be on a different lease. I don't think it does much good to pass on a legal deer just to have it shot by the next hunter. It is best to be a member with like minded hunters. You can find clubs as restrictive (or not) as you feel comfortable with. Usually the more restrictive, the higher the price.


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## pcola4 (Apr 13, 2009)

CCC said:


> This is EXACTLY why I got off my last lease 4 years ago, and honestly don't know if I will EVER get the opportunity to hunt again, because I will not belong to a "If it's brown it's down" mentality lease. I like getting a doe early in the year for meat in the freezer, then I want to horn hunt, would LOVE to find a lease SOME DAY, that had a good group of guys who would manage deer year after year.


You can find a club of people who feel the same way. It's typically going to cost a little more in money and time but if you feel the way we do it's worth it.


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## Grassflatsfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

FL needs 1-2 more weeks of doe days and better antler restrictions. AL needs to restrict the number of doe days, create a better tagging system, and possibly up the antler restriction also. 

I'm going to be short on meat this year also. Even so I'm not going to shoot a little spike or whatever just for freezer meat. 1st I'd rather eat doe meat and 2nd I don't need a set of truck horns either. To break it down I don't shoot little bucks.


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## Grassflatsfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

FLfishR said:


> It sounds like you need to be on a different lease. I don't think it does much good to pass on a legal deer just to have it shot by the next hunter. It is best to be a member with like minded hunters. You can find clubs as restrictive (or not) as you feel comfortable with. Usually the more restrictive, the higher the price.


If you don't let them go no one will.


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## joebow09 (Jun 29, 2011)

well i guess you should keep in mind where you hunt "Florida" we have many deer, herds in fact...but our genetics are poor on AVERAGE. I have been in the "brown its down club" and have shot everything in the season from a 40lb doe to a 120 8point, while shooting the brown its down rule. and currently im in one of these 4point on one side or better club and havent seen hardly anything. in my opinion given the lease size in our state...the shooting of FLORIDA legal will actually stimulate deer movement, allow more mature bucks to chase does when they are not as availible, it allows deer in general not to compete so hard for food sources, and when i say compete i mean travel as much. i say too we have genes around here that limit mature bucks to being only 6 points, i seen 5 yr old deer that are 6's...its all about genetics...this is my expierience only and all this is my opinion and what i feel would benefit my self if i had my own property.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

If you're on a lease I would suggest raising your lease standards. I shoot lots of doe for meat and pass most small bucks gun hunting. At the end of the season if I'm short on meat I'll pretty much shoot whatever is legal.


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## T-REX (Mar 1, 2011)

You cant manage a piece of property by yourself everyone has to be on board an it's hard to find land that is affordable to hunt that is being managed for mature bucks even ones with point limits mean nothing just because a deer has 8 points dosent mean its mature I would much rather fill my freazer with some tender doe meat an hunt a mature buck myself but it's hard to let a buck walk if u know the next guy us gonna blast it!


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

johnf said:


> If you're on a lease I would suggest raising your lease standards. I shoot lots of doe for meat and pass most small bucks gun hunting. At the end of the season if I'm short on meat I'll pretty much shoot whatever is legal.


That's pretty much understandable.


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

I prefer restrictions.....but as much as I've hunted BW this year and NOT seen a buck except on the back of others trucks, I will shoot the 1st legal 1 I have seen!!!! As fer doe, I wish Florida had a better management program and this will be the 1st year in many that I have not killed a doe!!!


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## inshoreJAM (Aug 2, 2009)

If we talk about public land hunting, its the states responsibility to manage the deer herd. Me and you can't keep Billy and Bobby from shooting every 5 inch spike that shows his face. That being said, I've been known to shoot a spike or 2 in BW for the meat, but once I have a freezer full I'll let the small bucks walk. Not because I think I'll ever get the chance to kill them once they're grown, because once I let them go by, the guy on the other side of the bottom is gonna blast him. I let them walk in hopes I'll see a bigger buck later in the hunt.


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

You can't ask the question as a club hunter and expect the same response from a public land hunter. You see deer all the time. I suspect part of the reason you can pass on these bucks is because you know you will probably see them again. Not so on public land. If you see a buck there is a likely chance you will not see another one the rest of the year. To be honest, I just like to kill deer. It is a close to the chase. Now, I have let young deer walk on BW when I am having a good year, but for the most part, a legal deer is a dead deer. We get no does except for archery season. If you want meat, you have no choice but to kill what you can.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

jspooney said:


> You can't ask the question as a club hunter and expect the same response from a public land hunter. You see deer all the time. I suspect part of the reason you can pass on these bucks is because you know you will probably see them again. Not so on public land. If you see a buck there is a likely chance you will not see another one the rest of the year. To be honest, I just like to kill deer. It is a close to the chase. Now, I have let young deer walk on BW when I am having a good year, but for the most part, a legal deer is a dead deer. We get no does except for archery season. If you want meat, you have no choice but to kill what you can.


Understandable, with that said there are alot of folks that kill ten small bucks a year on BW. I hunted it for years ( don't now), and it was tough. I think maybe a bigger antler restriction as well as a total # bucks killed restriction may be what's needed there. They should allow some time of small lottery for doe tags.


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Understandable, with that said there are alot of folks that kill ten small bucks a year on BW. I hunted it for years ( don't now), and it was tough. I think maybe a bigger antler restriction as well as a total # bucks killed restriction may be what's needed there. They should allow some time of small lottery for doe tags.


I am inclined to agree with you on this one. I don't want 3 point on one side, but I would not be opposed to a fork rule. Also support a limit of bucks per person of maybe 5 or 6 plus a few does. Maybe they should drop it to 1 buck per day.


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## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

Yes, Florida needs at least a forked rule and a few doe days on public lands. Everytime I get the survey phone call asking my what needs to be changed, and that's my response. The argument about if I don't shoot him, someone else will is part of the issue even in a club. We switched to a 4 on one side this year in hopes of letting some of the young 6 points breed longer. We all knew that this year would be slow, in hopes of a better herd next year. Now that the season is winding down, people seem to be complaining that they have not been seeing anything but 6 points. Our kill logs from last year have just about the same number of bucks harvested, but last year they were mostly 6's and this year there has been 7's and 8's. I think the biggest problem is people don't want to wait for a herd to mature, they grow impatient, and want results. I know the more time you put into this sport, the better your out come will be.


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## OTTE*DA*WORM (Feb 12, 2011)

I have to say I agree with OP. Im new to hunting, and there is no0thing I want more than to bag my first kill. So far I have had quite a few deer walk up on me. And man did i want to squeeze one off. But, I dont want my first deer to be dome puny runt. I want something worth bragging about. The only way to accomplish that is to let them grow. Good topic. O*D*W


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

OTTE*DA*WORM said:


> I have to say I agree with OP. Im new to hunting, and there is no0thing I want more than to bag my first kill. So far I have had quite a few deer walk up on me. And man did i want to squeeze one off. But, I dont want my first deer to be dome puny runt. I want something worth bragging about. The only way to accomplish that is to let them grow. Good topic. O*D*W


You may want to re-think that strategy. Would probably be better off taking a deer first, then looking for the trophy. Buck fever is the real deal.


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## OTTE*DA*WORM (Feb 12, 2011)

jspooney said:


> You may want to re-think that strategy. Would probably be better off taking a deer first, then looking for the trophy. Buck fever is the real deal.


 
Dont get me wrong, I want a buck, but not to the point where I will shoot every one that looks legal.I hunt to put food on the table and in the freezer. Not to put a head on my wall. Thats not my thing. i would rather have a longer doe season using rifles. Thats just me.


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## Bill's Boy (Oct 2, 2007)

Hunting has changed so much the last few years. It really turned into farming. In my opinion kill what you want to. And the way to do that is hunt with like minded people. But for a few to say what I or anyone else kills is just not right. Don't get me wrong either I am in favor of some of the things y'all suggest but think it should be done by the people hunting. Not by the few trophy hunters that want to force it down everyone's throat


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

OTTE*DA*WORM said:


> Dont get me wrong, I want a buck, but not to the point where I will shoot every one that looks legal.I hunt to put food on the table and in the freezer. Not to put a head on my wall. Thats not my thing. i would rather have a longer doe season using rifles. Thats just me.


I agree with you. I myself hunt because I love it and to provide for my family. I kill my fair share of deer each season but I have to work for them, they just don't walk to the truck or to a (food plot) which is where most people on here that have a problem with all this sit.

I would go with a forked horn to start and 2 doe tags per qouta and the ability to buy a max of 3 more tags. Leaving bow season alone, leaving the day limit alone (there is plenty of bucks and too many does in BW. If you know how and/or hunt with brains you will see and kill bucks (not just littleones).

I will all legal until my freezer is full the I start letting the smaller walk the best I can.

Enough is enough! Florida will never be a place for monster bucks and if I really wanted one I would go buy it on a paid hunt.

Agian if the people that is not seeing or killing deer wether it be does during archery, bucks small or large during gun season would really look at their methods they may find the problem.


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## billrv (Jan 8, 2008)

Wow Great thread. Most leases have ample doe tags with a request of two does to one buck which in itself should be a great reason to not get impatient and kill inferior bucks it is simple in N. Escambia Cty. If you give them a chance to get to 3-4 years old thru are generally a pretty good deer, but even with that a lot of clubs will shot anything that is "lease legal" for the clubs who try to let them grow it becomes very frustrating when you see a post of one that you let walk. I believe you have to stress this with the membership and rotate members until you have the right mix. We all think we are amateur biologist to the point of hurting ourselves, determining cull deer, shooting young does vs. Old does etc. but the bottom line is trying to keep the heard at a reasonable carrying capacity at letem grow. As far as public land hunters you guys are the most dedicated group out here I wish the state would listen to what you have to say and give you does tags, more does days and put some money minimal antler restrictions in place


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## inshoreJAM (Aug 2, 2009)

Look at BW Hutton unit vs the rest of BW. 3 points on one side and plenty of does killed. They consistently kill some big nice bucks over there. That's the direction BW needs to head in, and I've said it for years. I've had plenty of game wardens share the same feeling, but the state has "biologists" on the job. I use that term very loosely...


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

inshoreJAM said:


> Look at BW Hutton unit vs the rest of BW. 3 points on one side and plenty of does killed. They consistently kill some big nice bucks over there. That's the direction BW needs to head in, and I've said it for years. I've had plenty of game wardens share the same feeling, but the state has "biologists" on the job. I use that term very loosely...


Thank you sir! Well said.

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## Emerald Ghost (Mar 11, 2008)

If you don't have like minded neighbors, then there can be no real effective management.
Just consider this question : When is a buck a cull buck ?
Too many theories, and philosophical differences.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Bill's Boy said:


> Hunting has changed so much the last few years. It really turned into farming. In my opinion kill what you want to. And the way to do that is hunt with like minded people. But for a few to say what I or anyone else kills is just not right. Don't get me wrong either I am in favor of some of the things y'all suggest but think it should be done by the people hunting. Not by the few trophy hunters that want to force it down everyone's throat


I agree with Bryan, many people hunt for different reasons and goals in mind. A lot of people may not understand the way I hunt and I may not understand the way they hunt but both should be respected. 

I did not kill a deer this year. I hunted pretty hard. I fired my gun once at a good buck but miss judged the distance and missed. I don't hunt for meat and I don't believe in the importance of shooting does though I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Know body has been able to convince me that by having less does I will have more bucks but that's a different discussion altogether. 

I saw quit a few racked bucks including a few club legal 8's. The club rules are 4 on one side 14 inches wide. 

I guess I'm just different, I had many "successful" hunts this year that didn't involve me firing a shot. I had a great year and look forward to next season.


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## Bill's Boy (Oct 2, 2007)

You rally can't compare the Hutton unit with regular blackwater because it was club land for many years, then closed to all hunting for several years, and now is limited access. So pressure has never been a problem. I have hunted blackwater as a dog hunter and a still hunter and now I travel several states and club hunt too. And I can tell you that management is very flawed in alot of places. But trophy bucks can still be found if you put in the time and effort


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Well you always hear the statement that someone else will shoot them if you don't. I don't really believe that. There's public portions of Eglin and closed areas. Those closed areas are a sanctuary for giant bucks with a no fence boundary. I believe big bucks can be managed everywhere if managed correctly. I don't believe over kill of does is the answer. Also don't think 1:1 and 1:2 buck to doe is possible. 1:5 would probably be more realistic.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

Bill's Boy said:


> Hunting has changed so much the last few years. It really turned into farming. In my opinion kill what you want to. And the way to do that is hunt with like minded people. But for a few to say what I or anyone else kills is just not right. Don't get me wrong either I am in favor of some of the things y'all suggest but think it should be done by the people hunting. Not by the few trophy hunters that want to force it down everyone's throat


 
I do AGREE with you 100%!!!


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## FLfishR (Oct 3, 2007)

Grassflatsfisher said:


> If you don't let them go no one will.


If it is a legal buck on your lease, everyone will appreciate you passing it up. 

The point was to hunt with like minded hunters.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

Matt Mcleod said:


> I agree with Bryan, many people hunt for different reasons and goals in mind. A lot of people may not understand the way I hunt and I may not understand the way they hunt but both should be respected.
> 
> I did not kill a deer this year. I hunted pretty hard. I fired my gun once at a good buck but miss judged the distance and missed. I don't hunt for meat and I don't believe in the importance of shooting does though I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Know body has been able to convince me that by having less does I will have more bucks but that's a different discussion altogether.
> 
> ...


 

A few years ago you didn't and/or wouldn't even here or talk about this until deer hunting went commercial thanks to the QDMA and now day that is all we hear. As \i have said before I would not mind a forked horn or better but leave the rest alone .


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> I just don't see the sense in shooting every spike and cow horn in the woods. I remember a time when you could hunt for weeks without seeing a deer around here, much less a buck. Please keep it civil and brief or this will get locked or deleted.


I'm with you...I don't get it but as long as it continues to be legal, folks will shoot everything they see for many different reasons: I've earned it because I sat a lot and haven't seen anything; If I don't shoot it someone else will; I like to eat deer; I don't care about horns; antlers are only good to stir the chili; you can't eat horns; etc...

Given the price of gas, guns, bullets, licenses, etc (and that's if you don't have a private lease), most hunters are not money ahead by killing deer for food, especially a small one. A 125# buck will net 40# of meat and if you get it processed instead of doing it yourself, you are actually paying more than a grocery cart of beef (no, not steak ). Most of the spikes you see posted might go 110#, so the net is even less. 

I think it all begins with mandatory harvest check-in stations and season limits. That's how it works in most other states. Open season from October to February with no accounting of the harvest is absurd. You cannot properly manage without data of the herd size and of the harvest. A 3pt per side will protect most 1.5 y/o deer and allow them to experience one hunting season protected. Spikes have got to be the dumbest deer in the woods, but it's amazing how quick they wise up after surviving one season.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

scbass said:


> A few years ago you didn't and/or wouldn't even here or talk about this until deer hunting went commercial thanks to the QDMA and now day that is all we hear. As \i have said before I would not mind a forked horn or better but leave the rest alone .


It seems you view my way of hunting negatively and believe that I have been manipulated by the "commercialization" of deer hunting and the QDMA. This is a personal decision and should not be threatening for you or anyone else. I don't judge any legal/ethical hunter and ask that I be treated the same way. 

I get very excited about trying to kill a mature deer. It's why I spend the money, show up for many work days throughout the year and get up early in the morning. It's why I hunt. That shouldn't bother anyone....


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Decide what's right for you...then don't worry about everyone else
row, row, row, YOUR boat


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm with you on this. I generally kill a buck about every 3 years. I usually won't shoot anything less than an 8. I don't have anything to prove and it doesn't bother me in the least to go the year without killing one.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (Razr Maxx)

I understand your position but don't necessarily agree. My club has hurt the doe population (IMO) we shoot does during archery and up to January 1 but not on plots. I didn't see the first shooter buck until the last afternoon. I did not see any does this year just small bucks. When I get to the point of not wanting to shoot club legal bucks I'll move over to a trophy club. I would've give anything to see a mature doe this year.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

Bill's Boy said:


> Hunting has changed so much the last few years. It really turned into farming.* In my opinion kill what you want to.* And the way to do that is hunt with like minded people. But for a few to say what I or anyone else kills is just not right. Don't get me wrong either I am in favor of some of the things y'all suggest but think it should be done by the people hunting. Not by the few trophy hunters that want to force it down everyone's throat


I disagree with this. People forget real quick that there is less hunting opportunity and more and more hunters. The kill what you want and forget about what everyone else is doing is a fallacy. Most everyone hunts black water and hammers the small bucks. Then people are crying why you only see small bucks. News flash folks it has more to do with trigger control than it does genetics. Genetics don't mean crap if the deer never gets to old enough to breed.


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## Bill's Boy (Oct 2, 2007)

That's where you are wrong. We have all harvest records for the last 5 years and the most does we have ever killed is 15. On a 5000 acre track of land that's not hurting the population. Again flawed management


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

Bill's Boy said:


> That's where you are wrong. We have all harvest records for the last 5 years and the most does we have ever killed is 15. On a 5000 acre track of land that's not hurting the population. Again flawed management


Im talking about bucks, young ones at that.


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## Bill's Boy (Oct 2, 2007)

There are no lack of hunting opportunity. People want big bucks around every tree so it will be easy. Blackwater and Elgin both hold trophy bucks. Not to even mention south alabama public land. I know cause I have seen them and even killed some of them. It's called hunting not killing.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Lets hear some ideas for public and private land management.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (Razr Maxx)



Bill's Boy said:


> That's where you are wrong. We have all harvest records for the last 5 years and the most does we have ever killed is 15. On a 5000 acre track of land that's not hurting the population. Again flawed management


I should've included that I feel that way about the Southern parts of Alabama. I'm not a biologist and don't have any factual information other than hunting in lower Alabama for years. I believe the buck to doe ratio is 1:1 or less. There are pros and cons to achieving that 1:1 ratio.

Pros, fewer does reduce the risk of cross breeding and stand to produce a better quality of deer.

Cons, less deer to see and fewer meat hunts. If the members are all trophy hunters and don't shoot small bucks for several years it will work. It's hard to fine a group of guys that are willing to let all young deer walk.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Lets hear some ideas for public and private land management.


Public land, 4point or better and same doe day dates as private land to keep the meat hunters happy.

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## Travis12Allen (Jun 1, 2011)

Its crazy what ones perception makes him think. A trophy is how an individual sees it. A.spike to one person may be a trophy while to another it isnt. Just like one hunter will strictly horn hunt while another meat hunts. Its really a senseless argument. QDM is the key, but that doesnt mean they all have to be big 8 points running around for you to have a healthy herd. Antler restrictions would be nonsense. I would however support antler restrictions for certain sections of BW just to please the FL "trophy" hunters. However some people could care less at the size of some bones and would love nothing more than to harvest legal deer.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Travis12Allen said:


> Its crazy what ones perception makes him think. A trophy is how an individual sees it. A.spike to one person may be a trophy while to another it isnt. Just like one hunter will strictly horn hunt while another meat hunts. Its really a senseless argument. QDM is the key, but that doesnt mean they all have to be big 8 points running around for you to have a healthy herd. Antler restrictions would be nonsense. I would however support antler restrictions for certain sections of BW just to please the FL "trophy" hunters. However some people could care less at the size of some bones and would love nothing more than to harvest legal deer.


Years ago the restrictions were 1" of horn above the hairline. You could literally hunt all season in Blackwater and sometimes only see as many as 5-6 deer all season. Then the antler restriction went up and now you see quite a few. Back then alot of does were mistaken for small bucks. Logic would say if you up the restriction again then it should help that herd.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

I'm fine with the antler restrictions. You want horns, join a club. If they up the regs on antlers, you'll just have people again start complaining that all they see are just under legal deer. The Blackwater deer population I think is very healthy. I see deer on just about every sit. And my personal deer ratio that I've seen this year is about 7:1 for does and bucks. Not big bucks by any means. But there are a lot if deer where I've been hunting in BW


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

I think a fork horn or better would be good for BW, mostly what I see on here are spikes, I think if the spikes were able to at least make another year youd see alot better deer being harvested ,and it sounds like some doe days need be in place, JMHO, I dont hunt there anymore and dont care if yall shoot everything that walks.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Telum Pisces said:


> Wirelessly posted
> 
> I'm fine with the antler restrictions. You want horns, join a club. If they up the regs on antlers, you'll just have people again start complaining that all they see are just under legal deer. The Blackwater deer population I think is very healthy. I see deer on just about every sit. And my personal deer ratio that I've seen this year is about 7:1 for does and bucks. Not big bucks by any means. But there are a lot if deer where I've been hunting in BW


In reality , why should you have to join clubs to see good horns. BW is essentially a state run club if you purchase the required documents to join. I just believe folks would appreciate it more with a little better restriction. Right now the state has no idea how many bucks or does are even killed there. They really need some kind of checks and balances in there like check in/out stations, but how the hell would you do that with so many roads and vast area. They could also (maybe) limit how many folks hunt in there per day. Might help out with over crowding and alot of those bull crap man drives. Just a couple ideas.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> In reality , why should you have to join clubs to see good horns. BW is essentially a state run club if you purchase the required documents to join. I just believe folks would appreciate it more with a little better restriction. Right now the state has no idea how many bucks or does are even killed there. They really need some kind of checks and balances in there like check in/out stations, but how the hell would you do that with so many roads and vast area. They could also (maybe) limit how many folks hunt in there per day. Might help out with over crowding and alot of those bull crap man drives. Just a couple ideas.


Agree. You shouldn't have to join a club to hunt deer. But, the fact of the matter is that if you want to consitently harvest big bucks, you are going to have to join a club. Even if it went to a fork rule in BW, you are not going to get wall hangers coming out of BW consistantly. 

I would be fine with a fork on one side rule and to let you harvest 4 does throughout the season. Give me tags and let me decide when to hunt. I can't hunt on the state's schedule sometimes due to family obligations etc... 

Can't please horn hunters and meat hunters on the same property. That's just the fact of the matter. BW deer poplulation as far as deer numbers seems to be pretty good based on what I see with my eyes. I consider seeing deer a succesfull day. I just consider it unlucky if it's not something I can shoot or get a shot at.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

*Season's End*

Well my season ended yesterday and I was ready for it. I am tired and need to rest.

I had a good year for getting the freezer full. Here are a few for the year. The 8pt in the last photo in mine and the 7 pt is a friends.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

Well I thought I was making a new post but only realized after I hit enter.


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## Bill's Boy (Oct 2, 2007)

I guess since man drives are not your type hunting then they should be outlawed. Again how come a few hunters should be able to tell the rest in public land how to hunt and what to kill. Just because you don't see driving deer on tv doesn't mean they don't do it in states like Iowa Kansas and Illinois and they are ok places to hunt. Back to black water that one inch to five once rule was the silliest thing they ever did cause now you are killing the best yearling bucks. And after 20 yrs of hunting up there I have seen no difference in the deer pop


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

Bill's Boy said:


> I guess since man drives are not your type hunting then they should be outlawed.


 
The only thing about man drives is the lack of respect that is given. Most of the groups in BW will start driving at daylight and they don't even check to see if there is anyone in the area. If they would check areas and/or wait until a respectable hour it wlould be better.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Bill's Boy said:


> I guess since man drives are not your type hunting then they should be outlawed. Again how come a few hunters should be able to tell the rest in public land how to hunt and what to kill. Just because you don't see driving deer on tv doesn't mean they don't do it in states like Iowa Kansas and Illinois and they are ok places to hunt. Back to black water that one inch to five once rule was the silliest thing they ever did cause now you are killing the best yearling bucks. And after 20 yrs of hunting up there I have seen no difference in the deer pop


Maybe I should have phrased that different. I used to do man drives as a kid. They do work, but they are not regulated. Even though its public land there should be a degree of respect. Why should a guy that gets up at 4 am and goes to a stand in the dark, to patiently wait for a deer, be invaded by a group doing a man drive. Alot of man drives don't get started til later in the morning when hunting is prime. I'm telling you I used to do it as well and the older I got I began to understand the other side of the coin. Not only that but it's dangerous for the driving parties. You never know who is sitting in a tree. If the state said they were going to have specific man drive days that would be different. In regards to the deer herd in BW, in my opinion it's been a drastic change since I started hunting there 33 years ago. Just my observations.


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## Bill's Boy (Oct 2, 2007)

I think we are all pretty close to agreeing but the main thing I don't want is for the same people regulating fishing to start deciding the are good deer managers now. Everyone should be have the right to hunt. After the terrible season most of alabama had this year you won't have any problem finding land to lease or a club to join. So all trophy hunters should be happy.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> I'm telling you I used to do it as well and the older I got I began to understand the other side of the coin.


There in lies the problem that cannot be resolved. Hunters are vast and vary in their opinions. Some of it can be related to the age of the hunter or how long they have been hunting. Some of it can be attributed to how that hunter was raised. Who knows. 

The ability to please everyone is near impossible. Everyone is at a different point in their hunting life and in their thinking. Most younger (newer to hunting) often want to kill a good number of deer. Older hunters (been hunting a long time) usually want to shoot quality, older bucks. Then there's people like me that simply want deer meat in the freezer to last the off season. 

Most hunters grow (change) their opinions as they get older. But just because you get old does not mean that that way of hunting should be taken away from others.:whistling::thumbsup: Just making an old person joke in a way.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

Many states have a tag system with a buck kill limit. No tag - don't shoot it.
Would that work in Florida and Alabama?

In Bama you are already supposed to limit your kill to 3 bucks one a day. WHITE-TAILED BUCK LIMIT – three during all combined seasons. One of the three must have at least 4 antler points 1” or longer on one antler (except for Barbour County).

But it's an honor system and easy to violate. It does make hunters think about what they are shooting which is a good thing.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

hjorgan said:


> Many states have a tag system with a buck kill limit. No tag - don't shoot it.
> Would that work in Florida and Alabama?
> 
> In Bama you are already supposed to limit your kill to 3 bucks one a day. WHITE-TAILED BUCK LIMIT – three during all combined seasons. One of the three must have at least 4 antler points 1” or longer on one antler (except for Barbour County).
> ...


 
Most states have deer that are 120in and 200lbs here in Fl. you would have to kill 2 to 3 8pts to just get 100in and 200lbs of meat.

I killed a 6pt this year that if he was 10 yrs old he would made 25", the typical BW buchs is either pencil horn or basket. it has a lot to due with lack of good food source and genetics. This is just my opinion.

THERE IS MORE BIG BUCKS IN BW than people think!!!!!!!!!

Well this thread is starting to sound like a broke record and with that said.

As said here before You cannot make everyone happy with this but IT NEEDS TO STOP GOING COMMERCIAL and that is the way i look at it. Before the TV shows people was just happy to get out to the woods and shoot some deer and be happy, the ones that worked at it kill nice buck and the ones that didn't killed nothing.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

scbass said:


> Most states have deer that are 120in and 200lbs here in Fl. you would have to kill 2 to 3 8pts to just get 100in and 200lbs of meat.
> 
> I killed a 6pt this year that if he was 10 yrs old he would made 25", the typical BW buchs is either pencil horn or basket. it has a lot to due with lack of good food source and genetics. This is just my opinion.
> 
> ...


Yep. Last buck I killed here in Arkansas was 185# on the hoof. A mature doe will got 130# easy. I've seen bucks here over 250#.


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

johnf said:


> Yep. Last buck I killed here in Arkansas was 185# on the hoof. A mature doe will got 130# easy. I've seen bucks here over 250#.


n/m - is "here" to you arkansas?


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

Grassflatsfisher said:


> FL needs 1-2 more weeks of doe days and better antler restrictions. AL needs to restrict the number of doe days, create a better tagging system, and possibly up the antler restriction.


And Rob nails it. Mike it's just like any other law... If its legal then people are going to do it. People think if they let a cow horn walk then someone else will shoot it, so boom... I agree with these thoughts as well... I am a very selfish person, however if the laws changed, I would follow the law.....

Florida needs a "doe only" season for two years. Then go to 4 on one side, or 6pt or better. Get rid of the over populated does, and restrict hunters to a more quality buck. Also three buck limit state wide. Again I am selfish, if you "up your standards" in your club then I'm gonna hunt the club next to yours an shoot your legal deer..... It has to be a state law for it to work.....


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Well you can grow big deer and let the guy next door shoot some or you can grow small deer and let the guy next door shoot some. Old deer are smart, they don't stray far from a sanctuary.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

K-Bill said:


> n/m - is "here" to you arkansas?


yes

I killed a little bitty doe last Saturday. She was about 75# and I caught hell about killing a baby.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Well you can grow big deer and let the guy next door shoot some or you can grow small deer and let the guy next door shoot some. Old deer are smart, they don't stray far from a sanctuary.


Deer you ignore ignore you. 

I had a little buck that came across me about 10 times one year. The first time he saw me and spooked a little, just sort of walked off. The second time he was very skiddish. After that he got more and more comfortable. The last time I threw an apple core and hit him in the side. He looked up and blew at me, then stuck his head back down in the corn. He was a forked horn and we have a 3pt on one side rule, so I couldn't shoot him.


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## PanhandleBob (Mar 16, 2011)

Easier to do on private land vs. public. You need a club with like minded hunters...if you want meat kill does....kill mature bucks and you can't judge that by antlers alone....

Start by setting your buck restrictions with something every member can live with. Use more than just points...combination of spread, bases/mass, body weight, beam length, and points (we use a 3 out of the 5 rule) and for Pete's sake require 2 does for every buck....after a few years you will be able to see a difference and can increase restrictions without decreasing the chances for your hunters to take deer. I bet you will start seeing and killing more deer that push 95+ inches and 180+ lbs. and your average age for bucks will go up.... 

It works...have pictures to prove it.

Just my humble opinion


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Well you can grow big deer and let the guy next door shoot some or you can grow small deer and let the guy next door shoot some. Old deer are smart, they don't stray far from a sanctuary.


True but if the whole state had to tighten their standards the you would see a lot more bigger deer..... Also like everything else in this world population controls it. I'm gonna strike a nerve with some folks but... Snapper fishing is a good example of this, nowhere else in the world can you catch snapper like we do here in northwest florida... Years ago it wasn't an issue, now days every swinging dick that can afford a boat is an offshore angler, just like every swinging duck that can afford a rifle is a deer hunter, or bow hunter... Population is killing everything, their are too many people hunting, fishing, and especially breeding... Their is only so much dirt, but yet the people keep reproducing... I'm not kidding when I say we need a couple tidal waves, and a few earthquakes... I would more than likely loose a few family members but to start over would be worth it.... Eventually we will run out of land... Then what??


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

PanhandleBob said:


> Easier to do on private land vs. public. You need a club with like minded hunters...if you want meat kill does....kill mature bucks and you can't judge that by antlers alone....
> 
> Start by setting your buck restrictions with something every member can live with. Use more than just points...combination of spread, bases/mass, body weight, beam length, and points (we use a 3 out of the 5 rule) and for Pete's sake require 2 does for every buck....after a few years you will be able to see a difference and can increase restrictions without decreasing the chances for your hunters to take deer. I bet you will start seeing and killing more deer that push 95+ inches and 180+ lbs. and your average age for bucks will go up....
> 
> ...


 
Well I said the last post was it BUT:

I wish the private and/or \club guys would really stop comparing your land/lease to public hunt the land you pay for the way you want to hunt it, If you DO NOT hunt public reframe from comment because you really don't care you just want to see more so called Monster bucks on your land which if they are not already there they will never be.


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## PanhandleBob (Mar 16, 2011)

scbass, I Couldn't agree more about public land...it's tough....

2 things...1st, I'm pretty sure my first sentence says just that....number 2 the original question was about club land & opinions.

Oh heck...one more thing, I kill for meat and horns because I'm lucky enough to be able to do that....I do not buy red meat from the store, the deer I kill is what I eat for red meat.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> True but if the whole state had to tighten their standards the you would see a lot more bigger deer..... Also like everything else in this world population controls it. I'm gonna strike a nerve with some folks but... Snapper fishing is a good example of this, nowhere else in the world can you catch snapper like we do here in northwest florida... Years ago it wasn't an issue, now days every swinging dick that can afford a boat is an offshore angler, just like every swinging duck that can afford a rifle is a deer hunter, or bow hunter... Population is killing everything, their are too many people hunting, fishing, and especially breeding... Their is only so much dirt, but yet the people keep reproducing... I'm not kidding when I say we need a couple tidal waves, and a few earthquakes... I would more than likely loose a few family members but to start over would be worth it.... Eventually we will run out of land... Then what??


Speaking for a state with those restrictions I can tell you that's not necessarily true. We've had a 3pt on one side rule for about 12 years and I can't honestly say I can see a big difference. There are a lot of 5pts shot every year here. The vast majority of those are 1.5 year olds and some are yearlings. I can't imagine what a yearling 6 or 7 point would look like at 3.5 years old, probably a beast. I've seen a lot of those little fellers at 100# and less in the backs of trucks. Shooting those and letting spikes and forked horns walk doesn't make sense to me for getting bigger bucks. I think having a point and inside spread rule would be the bets if you want to raise the quality of your herd.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

johnf said:


> Speaking for a state with those restrictions I can tell you that's not necessarily true. We've had a 3pt on one side rule for about 12 years and I can't honestly say I can see a big difference. There are a lot of 5pts shot every year here. The vast majority of those are 1.5 year olds and some are yearlings. I can't imagine what a yearling 6 or 7 point would look like at 3.5 years old, probably a beast. I've seen a lot of those little fellers at 100# and less in the backs of trucks. Shooting those and letting spikes and forked horns walk doesn't make sense to me for getting bigger bucks. I think having a point and inside spread rule would be the bets if you want to raise the quality of your herd.


To fix some of that, you shouldn't include brow tines in your 3 on one side rule. Essentially if he has a g2,g3,and a g4 he should be an 8. If not then he's probably missing a brow of both and needs to go anyway.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Original post was for public and private lands. I really think all opinions matter in regards to public land. Doesn't matter if your a club member it not. scbass I'm confused as to whether you hunt to fill the freezer or hunt for meat and then hunt for nice antlers second. I noticed that you kill some nice bucks but that you also shot some small horn deer too.


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## PanhandleBob (Mar 16, 2011)

For public land - point restrictions, buck limits, and doe tags would help greatly.

I hunt public land in Ohio...1 buck limit and I can purchase doe tags. The 1 buck limit makes for a more selective hunt for me anyway...knowing I can shoot a doe and buy another tag helps too.

Again, just my opinion and everybody has one of those....


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

I firmly believe that florida will be a tag system state within the next two seasons... Just about every state does it anyway, and it helps...


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't understand why we are all so gung-ho about getting the government involved in more restrictions. We see how well it has worked for the snapper fishery.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

jspooney said:


> I don't understand why we are all so gung-ho about getting the government involved in more restrictions. We see how well it has worked for the snapper fishery.


I'm not necessarily gung ho about the governments involvement but someone has to manage the resources or they will go away. Im just interested in everyone's opinion.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

DoneDeal2 said:


> To fix some of that, you shouldn't include brow tines in your 3 on one side rule. Essentially if he has a g2,g3,and a g4 he should be an 8. If not then he's probably missing a brow of both and needs to go anyway.


But then the first buck that I shot with a bow was a legal 6pt that was a 1.5 year old buck. I wouldn't have shot him with a gun, but because I was bow hunting and it was my first deer to shoot with a bow I let it fly. He was a legal deer even using the brow time rule, but would have been left in the gene pool had I been gun hunting.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Essentially if he has a g2,g3,and a g4 he should be an 8.


If he has those he will most likely have the same on the other side and have the brows which would make him a 10.

You guys really need to get off of this commercial stuff. I pay my hard earned money to provide for my family with natural healthy meat but ya'll just want to make it a CIRCUS and that SXXT is really sad.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> I'm not necessarily gung ho about the governments involvement but someone has to manage the resources or they will go away. Im just interested in everyone's opinion.


 
Back in the day there were no deer and you think they are going away?

The government should have NO play in this, like they should have NO play in most of the stuff we do but since you can give thanks to people like on here the government takes over everything.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

scbass said:


> Back in the day there were no deer and you think they are going away?
> 
> The government should have NO play in this, like they should have NO play in most of the stuff we do but since you can give thanks to people like on here the government takes over everything.


So there shouldn't be hunting seasons, regulations, minimum calibers, draw weights, broadhead size. 


Guess I'll go out this summer and shoot at some deer with my daughters 30lb Genesis and her target points. That should be fine for hunting..........I think so anyways.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

scbass said:


> If he has those he will most likely have the same on the other side and have the brows which would make him a 10.
> 
> You guys really need to get off of this commercial stuff. I pay my hard earned money to provide for my family with natural healthy meat but ya'll just want to make it a CIRCUS and that SXXT is really sad.


Your right I guess I didn't mean the g4. You know what I'm saying. Dont count the brows for what would be a normal 8 point if it had all the correct tines. On that note you can buy beef cheaper that's just as natural and healthy. You can't try that comparison. You were at the FWC meeting the other night putting in your opinion on it to the government so what makes you any different than anyone else in this discussion. You kill nice deer and you kill young small horn deer. If everyone hunted that way, things would be completely different. There had to be some regulation. Quit trying to make it a conspiracy. Other people respect your opinion, so consider there's.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

scbass said:


> Back in the day there were no deer and you think they are going away?
> 
> The government should have NO play in this, like they should have NO play in most of the stuff we do but since you can give thanks to people like on here the government takes over everything.


If there weren't some form of governing then , no there wouldn't be deer like today. Yes I did hunt BW when they were few and far between. Do you not remember those days? Resources take regulations. As long as you follow them then no one can really say anything. With that in mind you have to have some sort of self discipline. If you don't then you have no one but yourself to blame when the regulations have to be changed to protect a resource. Just because they say you can shoot every 5" spike, should you? I say no. Just my 2 cents


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Your right I guess I didn't mean the g4. You know what I'm saying. Dont count the brows for what would be a normal 8 point if it had all the correct tines. On that note you can buy beef cheaper that's just as natural and healthy. You can't try that comparison. You were at the FWC meeting the other night putting in your opinion on it to the government so what makes you any different than anyone else in this discussion. You kill nice deer and you kill young small horn deer. If everyone hunted that way, things would be completely different. There had to be some regulation. Quit trying to make it a conspiracy. Other people respect your opinion, so consider there's.


You will probably make better progress going outside and trying to push your house a few feet than trying to change a "brown it's downer". The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant to folks stuck in the past of living off the fish and deer that we all own. It may take a generation or two but those days are coming to an end...and I say not soon enough.

If one wants to live off the land, they should go to Alaska.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

johnf said:


> So there shouldn't be hunting seasons, regulations, minimum calibers, draw weights, broadhead size.
> 
> 
> Guess I'll go out this summer and shoot at some deer with my daughters 30lb Genesis and her target points. That should be fine for hunting..........I think so anyways.


Don't get stupid with it You know what I was talking about.


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## scbass (Feb 1, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Your right I guess I didn't mean the g4. You know what I'm saying. Dont count the brows for what would be a normal 8 point if it had all the correct tines. On that note you can buy beef cheaper that's just as natural and healthy. You can't try that comparison. You were at the FWC meeting the other night putting in your opinion on it to the government so what makes you any different than anyone else in this discussion. You kill nice deer and you kill young small horn deer. If everyone hunted that way, things would be completely different. There had to be some regulation. Quit trying to make it a conspiracy. Other people respect your opinion, so consider there's.


Yes I was at the meeting and I did give my 2 cent which I think would make a difference and I will follow the law to the T. I also respect everyones opinion but I might not agree with all, that is why they are called opinions.

I am not saying we do not need some regulation we do, but if you regulate to a point where for a lot of people due to the way they hunt they will never kill a deer and would be wasting their money.

I just love to hunt, I will go by all laws, I will shoot legal deer until the freezer is full and then I will start looking for the horns.

Yes this is my last say and I will talk to all later


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

scbass said:


> Yes I was at the meeting and I did give my 2 cent which I think would make a difference and I will follow the law to the T. I also respect everyones opinion but I might not agree with all, that is why they are called opinions.
> 
> I am not saying we do not need some regulation we do, but if you regulate to a point where for a lot of people due to the way they hunt they will never kill a deer and would be wasting their money.
> 
> ...


I can agree with you on that.


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

scbass said:


> Back in the day there were no deer and you think they are going away?
> 
> The government should have NO play in this, like they should have NO play in most of the stuff we do but since you can give thanks to people like on here the government takes over everything.


I agree with this point also.... The deer population ain't hurting one bit.. This whole thread is simply about trophy management...


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

scbass said:


> Don't get stupid with it You know what I was talking about.


You said the government should have NO play. I can't see that I took what you said out of context.


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## Travis12Allen (Jun 1, 2011)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> I agree with this point also.... The deer population ain't hurting one bit.. This whole thread is simply about trophy management...


Bingo... Some people dont care about "Trophies". Why force that upon everyone? Keep the deer herd healthy and im good. If i wanted to trophy hunt it wouldnt be in Florida anyhow. Id still be for certain areas having an antler restriction, but all of it? No.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Travis12Allen said:


> Bingo... Some people dont care about "Trophies". Why force that upon everyone? Keep the deer herd healthy and im good. If i wanted to trophy hunt it wouldnt be in Florida anyhow. Id still be for certain areas having an antler restriction, but all of it? No.


Why just part of it? Most folks said a fork horn rule is needed. Do you consider a fork horn a trophy?


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## Travis12Allen (Jun 1, 2011)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Why just part of it? Most folks said a fork horn rule is needed. Do you consider a fork horn a trophy?


I support part of it for my fellow hunters out there hunting bone, but the people hunting meat, myself included, I dont mind the way it is now. To be honest, if they would just give some doe tags there would be alot less small bucks shot since people could put meat in the freezer.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Travis12Allen said:


> I support part of it for my fellow hunters out there hunting bone, but the people hunting meat, myself included, I dont mind the way it is now. To be honest, if they would just give some doe tags there would be alot less small bucks shot since people could put meat in the freezer.


People that shoot spike bucks will shoot them regardless of whether they have doe tags or not. Why do people meat hunt, it's not cheaper than beef , pork, or chicken? I do understand that not all would be that way but most would just consider it more odds of dead deer in their favor if they had doe tags.


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## Travis12Allen (Jun 1, 2011)

DoneDeal2 said:


> People that shoot spike bucks will shoot them regardless of whether they have doe tags or not.


Some will and some wont. Either way its a step in the right direction and even if 10 spikes are passed it accomplishes want some people want. For me hunting for meat is cheaper. I dont have to drive very far to hunt.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

understandable


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