# Florida Gun Owners Still Face Arrest and Prosecution for Innocent Exposure of Handgun



## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

*Florida Gun Owners Still Face Arrest and Prosecution for Innocent Exposure of Handguns.*

When Hueris Mora came to us, we did what we always do when contacted by someone who is facing gun carry charges. We set about researching the charges and circumstances of the incident. Florida Carry only gets involved in these cases when good people face unjust charges because they choose to lawfully carry defensive arms.
In his case, it was immediately apparent that continuing prosecution by the office of Katherine Fernandez Rundle, Miami-Dade State Attorney, for violation of Florida's Open Carry Ban was unjustified at best. Our consulting attorneys statewide were in unanimous concurrence that prosecution of this case, despite the ambiguous language of Florida Statute 790.053, was completely baseless. The Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office must have also known that they were in an untenable position because they quickly offered to take the possibility of jail time off the table.
Removing the possibility of imprisonment was not an olive branch offered in the interest of justice, it was in fact a Trojan Horse. This underhanded move was their only way to keep prosecuting the case because it had the calculated effect of taking away Mr. Mora's public defender. Once the Assistant State Attorney prosecuting the case had effectively maneuvered to deprive Mr. Mora of legal counsel, an offer was made. An offer so common in Florida that it is considered the standard plea deal... "You can retake the concealed course to get your license to carry back but kiss your gun goodbye."
Hueris knew he was getting the shaft despite having done nothing wrong, so he did what nobody before in Florida (that we know of) had done. He didn't sign the deal. This was a brave decision made despite having no legal help at that time.
Florida Carry has consulting attorneys who do countless hours of pro bono work behalf of our members. Unfortunately, at that time we did not have a criminal defense attorney in Mr. Mora's area. That's when we reached out to Jesus "Jojo" Rodriguez. He didn't blink. Pro bono defense of a truly worthy young man who needs our help? "Absolutely!" was Jojo's immediate response. Our other attorneys and legal interns rallied together to provide support and Mr. Rodriguez, Florida Carry's newest consulting attorney, drove this case home. The charge of violating Florida's Open Carry Ban was dismissed with prejudice. We finally won this fight that deprived Mr. Mora of his handgun for nearly six months.
Last year, when 2011 SB 234 was debated in the State Legislature, our elected leaders were told about law abiding gun owners being arrested and thrown in jail for even accidental or incidental exposure of lawfully carried firearms. The State Prosecuting Attorneys lobbyist repeatedly said that "Nobody has ever been prosecuted for open carry." The fact is that nobody ever went all the way to trial. Many have been prosecuted; this was a case where a good man fought back. If this doesn't meet some lobbyist definition of prosecution, we recommend a new dictionary.

Judge the case docket for yourself: http://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/cjis/CasePrinter.aspx?case=M11038033
It sure looks like prosecution to us.
The Florida Sheriff's Association sent multiple lobbyists in uniform who said that law enforcement officers will use their "proper discretionary powers" and would never arrest someone for carrying a handgun if it became innocently unconcealed. Yet there is a 25 year history of some officers using subjective language in firearms laws to unreasonably arrest law-abiding people who choose to exercise their right to bear arms. In one such case, a man lawfully carrying was permanently injured when handcuffs were put on him with such force that nerves in both wrists were severed. All because part of his handgun became unconcealed.
Early last year, Florida's Open Carry Ban was amended to insert the subjective language asked for by the Florida Sheriffs and State Prosecuting Attorneys Lobbyist. This compromised language came with their promise that these incidents would stop. Subsequently Mr. Mora had to spend a night deprived of his freedom in jail and half a year fighting for his rights. Every month we are contacted by other law-abiding people who have been confronted, detained, and threatened with arrest because they were lawfully carrying a firearm in Florida and it “printed” through clothing or became unconcealed.
They have broken their promise and we now call on the Florida Legislature to repeal one of the most anti-gun laws in the country. Despite the Florida Legislature’s clear intent that people who have lawfully carried handguns, which may become innocently unconcealed, face no charges. As long as the general ban on open carry exists, these arrests and prosecutions will continue unabated. Florida Statute 790.053 is Florida's very unusual open carry ban, it was a knee jerk reaction when passed in 1987 and it is long overdue for repeal.


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## 1956_4x4 (Oct 6, 2007)

Good info.

Smitty


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## chasin-tail (Oct 8, 2007)

Great information, thxxxx!


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

There's no info there at all. Did i miss what he did or why he was arrested? I only read examples of what happened to other people..can someone explain what exactly he was arrested doing? How he was exposing? I read the article twice and I still can tell why he was arrested?????
What a poorly written article....

Innocent is not always lawful.

He was probably in violation of the law.

Please do NOT believe open carry is a good thing. It is NOT! It only back fires on gun owners Trust me on this.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

sorry I gave you what I had, maybe check Google for more info you are seeking.


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## Doomsday (Jun 30, 2010)

Please enlighten us as to how open carry "only backfires on gun owners." 
Not trying to be a smarta$$, just never heard this line of argument against open carry.



Capt Ron said:


> Please do NOT believe open carry is a good thing. It is NOT! It only back fires on gun owners Trust me on this.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Wirelessly posted



Doomsday said:


> Please enlighten us as to how open carry \"only backfires on gun owners.\"
> Not trying to be a smarta$$, just never heard this line of argument against open carry.
> 
> 
> ...


Simple really ... they know you have a gun. You lose the one thing you have going for you, the element of surprise. Now I\'m not saying every open carrying person is more likely to be robbed, just saying that if some one does try to jump you while open carrying, what is the first thing they\'re going for... the gun!


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## sureline (Oct 19, 2007)

In most instances i agree with open carry hampers a person, but when i was a young man and working in a parking lot downtown or in a crappe part of town i strapped my pistol on my side for god and everbody to see.I didn't have to stop and run the bums and thugs away from me and my workers,they seen the gun and stayed the hell away. were in the lots a lot of the time at 1 to 3 in the morning and no place in pensacola is safe no more. One person is aways on watch . would love to hang it out again


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

Capt Ron said:


> There's no info there at all. Did i miss what he did or why he was arrested? I only read examples of what happened to other people..can someone explain what exactly he was arrested doing? How he was exposing? I read the article twice and I still can tell why he was arrested?????
> What a poorly written article....
> 
> Innocent is not always lawful.
> ...


I too would like to know how OC can backfire on gun owners? Im from KY and OC is very common there with no problems. Heck, KY is one of the most free states out there when it comes to guns. No call in fee, no call in for CCDW holders, no local gun laws, all NFA is good, our CCDW is not just for handguns but ANY weapon including NFA stuff. So, again, how does OC cause problems for gun owners?


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Doomsday said:


> Please enlighten us as to how open carry "only backfires on gun owners."
> Not trying to be a smarta$$, just never heard this line of argument against open carry.


Not to be a smart ass back but, you may want to consider my CCW class. It's the most in depth training available you can get in 4 hours. I cover the law in greater depth than anyone else I believe because of my dedication to my full-time profession and I'm NOT afraid of getting sued by someone who doesn't understand their choices. My goal is to keep my students alive and out of jail in that order. Because I am not an attorney specializing in ccw law, I teach straight from the Florida ccw bible by Jon Gutmacher and I add much more based on input from the local judges, attorneys, and prosecutors that train with me on a regular basis. I don't make up any of my training techniques or information. I simply help students master the basic fundamentals of pistol shooting with my own style and personality.

My training comes with a warning because it is not for everyone. I'm not politically correct when I teach or with the factual information put out in my classes or general conversation.
I live and teach by the motto most of us have all heard.
"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"
This is always an individual's choice. I simply provide more tools and informed choices for my clients. The choice is always the client's to carry where, when, what, and how and to know the consequences of doing or not doing so.


As far as a few reasons why open carry is not good for ccw holder:

Out of sight is out of mind from liberals and law makers.
States with open carry have so many restrictions that it is so inconvenient to carry that people just don't even bother because of these restrictions.

"No Gun signs" in Florida (example Navy Federal Credit Union) have no legal weight. You would have to be verbally asked to leave with your firearm and then if you refused you would be breaking the law by trespassing with a firearm the same as if you asked someone to leave your personal property and they refused.
In Texas, Louisiana, Alabama??, etc states with open carry, they are automatic trespassing with a firearm violation(3rd degree felony)in most cases.
You wouldn't walk around with $500 bucks hanging out of your pocket would you? You dont have eyes in the back of your head.
Its tactically wrong for a civilian.
You have to have a full understanding of how politics, laws, and liberals work when it comes to firearms.
We already have enough places and situations for open carry in Florida and even then it only raises flags for hoplaphobes to raise.

OUT OF SIGHT = OUT OF MIND


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

JD7.62 said:


> I too would like to know how OC can backfire on gun owners? Im from KY and OC is very common there with no problems. Heck, KY is one of the most free states out there when it comes to guns. No call in fee, no call in for CCDW holders, no local gun laws, all NFA is good, our CCDW is not just for handguns but ANY weapon including NFA stuff. So, again, how does OC cause problems for gun owners?


From what I just read on a KY ccw sight Kentucky "No gun signs" have legal weight...the worst of all restrictions because you go to jail while the bad guy doesnt care...

We will all be open carry and lawless soon enough...


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

Capt Ron said:


> From what I just read on a KY ccw sight Kentucky "No gun signs" have legal weight...the worst of all restrictions because you go to jail while the bad guy doesnt care...
> 
> We will all be open carry and lawless soon enough...


Not true at all. There are private property rights in KY and a private business owner with a storefront open to the public can ask an open carrier to leave their business. If said OCer does not leave he can be charged with trespassing. If he does leave when asked there is no charge even if there was a no gun sign posted. The only exemptions are private child care or health care facilities. 

Also, as an employee in KY you are allowed to bring weapons to work even if your employer doesn't allow it as long as it stays in your car.

Non prohibited (jails, police stations , court houses, etc) public property can not put up these signs either. I know this because a few years ago in Louisville, the city put a bunch of no weapons signs up in city owned parking garages but they were ordered to take them down as no local ordinance can be made regarding gun laws.

But, I still want to know how OC hurts gun owners rights?

Allowing for OC is great, it only HELPS us. If anything it prevents us from getting charged in case of accidental exposure.

Interesting side note, the banning of open carry (most southern states banned it) is actually a law from the Jim Crowe days.


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## Suprman (Jul 11, 2011)

JD7.62 said:


> Not true at all. There are private property rights in KY and a private business owner with a storefront open to the public can ask an open carrier to leave their business. If said OCer does not leave he can be charged with trespassing. If he does leave when asked there is no charge even if there was a no gun sign posted. The only exemptions are private child care or health care facilities.
> 
> Also, as an employee in KY you are allowed to bring weapons to work even if your employer doesn't allow it as long as it stays in your car.
> 
> ...


To add to that, GA has Open Carry or rather no law preventing it, thus making it legal. Signs have no weight, State preemption, and minimal off-limits places(we can carry in bars even). Its not against the law to have a Gun anywhere in you car, open or concealed as well as your home and place of business with no license/permit required. It is not inconvenient at all to carry, rather its very easy for any legal, non prohibited person to have a means to self defense. No requirement for Training to obtain a License/Permit. No problems that I am aware off, and GeorgiaCarry.org keeps getting better and better laws passed every year.

I lived in a rough part of atlanta for a little while and would OC everyday. I would walk my dog around a few blocks and the drug dealers would go somewhere else, the undesirables would pull their pants up and walk the opposite direction. In my experience, OC Helped me from getting messed with and made alot of the drug dealers move to different areas after knowing I "Patrol" (IE walked the dog many times a day). I've had Officers come up and talk to me about my OC and shake my hand.

Now I am not one to tell people how they should Carry their weapon, Concealed, OC, hooked to a chain around the neck. I don't care as long as you carry. But to say that OC just backfires on gun owners is a bit absurd. Yes you need to have good situational awareness when OC, but you should have that regardless if you carry or not. I believe it is a good determent to crime.

Answer me this, If Open carry is "not a good thing ", then why do Police OC? maybe they should just conceal as well so they have the element of surprise?


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## Crab Man (Oct 21, 2011)

My friend open carries on colorado and he says the gang members and thugs walk on the other side of the road when they see him with an xdm strapped to his hip. A criminal isn't going to pick you out as a target because you oc, they are going to pick out someone else who they think isn't armed.

I'm all for open carry in Florida and hope we get it one day, regardless of whether or not capt ron thinks its a good idea, It should be every american citizens right.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

The real sad thing is we have to have permits and hide or open carry at all. We have already given up our rights in that regard as the Constitution gives us all the right w/o the government.

The OP was that in FL our law is concealed but an accidental showing or printing should not be a crime but some agencies are breaking the law themselves. I tell you worry about those that carry w/o permits and are criminals, leave us alone that legally get one. Not that I want to open carry but I should have the choice and that is why we need the law to read that way.


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## Suprman (Jul 11, 2011)

FrankwT said:


> The real sad thing is we have to have permits and hide or open carry at all. We have already given up our rights in that regard as the Constitution gives us all the right w/o the government.
> 
> The OP was that in FL our law is concealed but an accidental showing or printing should not be a crime but some agencies are breaking the law themselves. I tell you worry about those that carry w/o permits and are criminals, leave us alone that legally get one. Not that I want to open carry but I should have the choice and that is why we need the law to read that way.



Agree 100%


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

> A criminal isn't going to pick you out as a target because you oc, they are going to pick out someone else who they think isn't armed.


Exactly. They go for the easy target.


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

Suprman said:


> To add to that, GA has Open Carry or rather no law preventing it, thus making it legal. Signs have no weight, State preemption, and minimal off-limits places(we can carry in bars even). Its not against the law to have a Gun anywhere in you car, open or concealed as well as your home and place of business with no license/permit required. It is not inconvenient at all to carry, rather its very easy for any legal, non prohibited person to have a means to self defense. No requirement for Training to obtain a License/Permit. No problems that I am aware off, and GeorgiaCarry.org keeps getting better and better laws passed every year.
> 
> I lived in a rough part of atlanta for a little while and would OC everyday. I would walk my dog around a few blocks and the drug dealers would go somewhere else, the undesirables would pull their pants up and walk the opposite direction. In my experience, OC Helped me from getting messed with and made alot of the drug dealers move to different areas after knowing I "Patrol" (IE walked the dog many times a day). I've had Officers come up and talk to me about my OC and shake my hand.
> 
> ...


so the BG wouldn't assume someone in a cop uniform would have a gun? the only reason i would advocate open carry is so stuff like the OP doesn't happen. i can just see grandma in the line at tom thumb get thumped in the head by some thug who then steals the gun and robs the joint. i carry all the time and wish more people would. but i see open carry inviting a lot of problems by giving the bad guy one more way to illigally obtain a firearm (as if they're not out there on street anyway). 

and are you saying you can do all these things with a firearm in GA without a permit? or do you have a CCP to open carry? i spend a lot of time in ATL and Henry county and have never seen anyone open carrying a firearm.


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## Suprman (Jul 11, 2011)

K-Bill said:


> and are you saying you can do all these things with a firearm in GA without a permit? or do you have a CCP to open carry? i spend a lot of time in ATL and Henry county and have never seen anyone open carrying a firearm.


In GA, without a License/Permit you can carry Openly or concealed on your Property, Anywhere in your car, and on/in your place of business.

You can carry long guns Openly without a License/Permit, 

With a License/Permit you can carry a Handgun open or concealed anywhere in the state except the following:


In a government building
In a courthouse (_a building occupied by judicial courts and containing rooms in which judicial proceedings are held_)
In a jail or prison
In a place of worship
In a state mental health facility as defined in Code Section 37-1-1 which admits individuals on an involuntary basis for treatment of mental illness, developmental disability, or addictive disease
In a bar unless the owner permits carry
On the premesis of a nuclear power facility (_punishment for carry is a misdemeanor, carry with intent to do bodily harm is a felony_)
Within 150 feet of a polling location
All Federal Laws Apply
It is unlawful for a person to carry ANY type of weapon onto any real property (_real estate... land or buildings_) owned by or leased to any public or private elementary school, secondary school, or school board and used for elementary or secondary education, any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of post secondary education. (we are working to get College Carry this year)


For more info on GA Gun Laws: http://www.georgiapacking.org/law.php


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

Suprman brought up a good point and that is situational awareness. Carrying or not or open vs concealed, being aware of what is happening around you is probably your best line of defense. Ive been trying to instill that into my wife. We were at the mall one day and a bunch of "urban yoots" began brawling just yards from us. I of course knew what was about to happen before all hell broke lose so I grabbed up my daughter and my wife (who had no idea what was going on) and went straight for cover just in case. 

Its simple things like this, even while driving that can keep you safe from accidents or being a victim.


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## CSA (Oct 23, 2008)

FrankwT said:


> I tell you worry about those that carry w/o permits and are criminals, leave us alone that legally get one. Not that I want to open carry but I should have the choice and that is why we need the law to read that way.


I don,t think it could be said anybetter than that, :thumbsup:


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## Dragonfire21281 (Apr 7, 2011)

*Agree*

I also Teach CCW and I dont like more laws added but i am not all for Open carry. in new mexico were i started carring the had open carry. I learned the hard way keep it covered ! i had a guy get upset with me when he was on my property I asked him to leave i thought it was done till i was face down with 3 guns to my head. he saw the gun on my side left and called the police and said i had a gun... I was not charged but the whole idea of them knowing what and were make things go from bad to ohh shit in seconds...


see you tonight ron




Capt Ron said:


> Not to be a smart ass back but, you may want to consider my CCW class. It's the most in depth training available you can get in 4 hours. I cover the law in greater depth than anyone else I believe because of my dedication to my full-time profession and I'm NOT afraid of getting sued by someone who doesn't understand their choices. My goal is to keep my students alive and out of jail in that order. Because I am not an attorney specializing in ccw law, I teach straight from the Florida ccw bible by Jon Gutmacher and I add much more based on input from the local judges, attorneys, and prosecutors that train with me on a regular basis. I don't make up any of my training techniques or information. I simply help students master the basic fundamentals of pistol shooting with my own style and personality.
> 
> My training comes with a warning because it is not for everyone. I'm not politically correct when I teach or with the factual information put out in my classes or general conversation.
> I live and teach by the motto most of us have all heard.
> ...


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Any more explanation would be a waste of time. Most views on open carry are blurred by passion for the second amendment.(a good thing)
A more thorough understanding of politics and demographics (multiculturalism) are needed to see the larger picture, especially as it applies to Florida and its residents and the future. 
Baby steps are required before legislative leaps. 
Undeniable fact: Open carry leads to greater restrictions on where you can carry period. 
Out of sight out of mind. If anyone can't understand that, they don't have the mental competency to carry a firearm.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

JD7.62 said:


> Not true at all. There are private property rights in KY and a private business owner with a storefront open to the public can ask an open carrier to leave their business. If said OCer does not leave he can be charged with trespassing. If he does leave when asked there is no charge even if there was a no gun sign posted. The only exemptions are private child care or health care facilities.
> 
> Also, as an employee in KY you are allowed to bring weapons to work even if your employer doesn't allow it as long as it stays in your car.
> 
> ...


I was reading the KY statutes, very lenient indeed. 
I couldn't find the statute on signs. I read it about in on a KY ccw website.
There's a reason for those jim crowe laws then and now. 
Florida politics are much more liberal than KY. 
Kentucky did not vote for Obama..Florida Did!
Many of us forget that we live in a dark red part of a blue state and we only have a few truly pro second amendment fighters like Greg Evers on our side.
Before any further open carry laws, we need our constitutional right to carry in public and BUSINESSES OPEN TO THE PUBLIC to be protected through law. 
Being able to Carry concealed on college campuses is more important than open carry in all other public places. Once liberal uneducated college students accept ccw on campus, they can learn that its a positive thing as they get older and become more accepting. Baby steps....

oh and I have never read seen one case of a licensed ccw holder in FL being busted for "accidental exposure" don't believe the NRA hype.
That case that was posted had no details and no story. just hype. The law has always been quite clear on exposer. Laws are useless when police dont know, understand or care about them. I train with police officers quite often. The attitude is arrest everybody and let the judge sort them out! Just like Marines, kill everybody and let God sort them out. A majority of Marines would also follow unlawful orders and remove your guns from you as well.
Reality sucks...


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## Suprman (Jul 11, 2011)

Capt Ron said:


> Florida politics are much more liberal than KY.
> 
> Before any further open carry laws, we need our constitutional right to carry in public and* BUSINESSES OPEN TO THE PUBLIC* to be protected through law.
> Being able to Carry concealed on college campuses is more important than open carry in all other public places. Once liberal uneducated college students accept ccw on campus, they can learn that its a positive thing as they get older and become more accepting. Baby steps....


I can understand your viewpoint and can even somewhat agree with it except the bolded part. Do you believe The Second Amendment supersedes Private Property Owners Rights?


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## snapperfan (Aug 30, 2009)

Capt Ron said:


> Undeniable fact: Open carry leads to greater restrictions on where you can carry period.
> Out of sight out of mind. If anyone can't understand that, they don't have the mental competency to carry a firearm.


Well put. :thumbsup:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

I would personally never chose to open carry a firearm in public (unless I was hunting or in the woods). However, I am glad that if my cover garment were to blow open or expose my CCW while reaching for something in a store -- that I will not be arrested for violating Florida law on open carry.

I mean if someone wants to "show their stuff" like they were open carrying - just wear a thin white tight T-shirt as a cover garment. Trust me, everyone will know you are packing - so you can get your thrill by showing off while still complying with the law on cocealed carry...

Or, at least you will become another "test" case -- depending upon which part of Florida that you are visiting...:yes:


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## Ardiemus (Oct 12, 2010)

If you choose not to exercise your rights, you will loose them. That goes for any right. Exercise good sound judgement, either way.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

scubapro said:


> I would personally never chose to open carry a firearm in public (unless I was hunting or in the woods). However, I am glad that if my cover garment were to blow open or expose my CCW while reaching for something in a store -- that I will not be arrested for violating Florida law on open carry.
> 
> I mean if someone wants to "show their stuff" like they were open carrying - just wear a thin white tight T-shirt as a cover garment. Trust me, everyone will know you are packing - so you can get your thrill by showing off while still complying with the law on cocealed carry...
> 
> Or, at least you will become another "test" case -- depending upon which part of Florida that you are visiting...:yes:


There's alwaysSpandex!!!!!!! , but then again, A guy wearing spandex in public should probably be arrested by the fashion police.

Greg Ever's, new bill SB34 provides all the extra protection we need without open carry. I'll try to post a copy of it when I can find the final version that was voted on and ratified. 
The way I read the bill we could whip out our weapons in a restaurant and start showing them to each other, that's how broad it is written.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Suprman said:


> I can understand your viewpoint and can even somewhat agree with it except the bolded part. Do you believe The Second Amendment supersedes Private Property Owners Rights?


 Suprman,
I really have been giving that some though lately.
Tell me what you think...

A business open to the public is not the same as your private residency. A business can NOT legally refuse you service for many reasons. Race, religion...ethnicity..etc. right?

I think the only way a business should lawfully be able to deny you entrance with a legally concealed weapon and license is if the store has full-time security officer at the door with a metal detector just like a courthouse entry to ensure that no one else brings a weapon inside since you can not.
If they are going to ask you to be unarmed then they must be legally liable to protect you at the same time. And you should be able to sue them if they dont or cant if its needed.
I believe this should be the case for any location not allowing weapons.

It would be very simple if this was the case for every location OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
If there's a metal detector and guard at all entrance/exit points then I'm perfectly fine with them not allowing weapons.

It's the only thing that actually makes sense and is logical on nearly every level.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

> A business can NOT legally refuse you service for many reasons. Race, religion...ethnicity..etc. right?


A private business reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

MrFish said:


> A private business reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.


Mr Fish,
With all due respect I think you have been reading to many signs behind the bar. A bartender's sign doesn't make it the law, legislation does.
They may reserve the right, but it doesn't make it lawful 

I'm not saying I disagree with the premise. Try to rent your house to only Graham Wellington and see what happens to you! (that's a joke on the fair housing act commerical)
I think even Craig's List my flag you ad if you seek a "Christian " roomate but because it's not equal opportunity. All your rights are gone, I'm not afraid of Al-Quada, the teacher's unions have destroyed the country long ago!


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

So... Why was Mr. Mora arrested?

Jim


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