# Gestapo at Perdido Key Beach



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

Arrived at the Gulf National Shores and parked in the first PUBLIC Parking lot off of Sand Key Drive at 0530 this a.m. I was at the high water mark with poles, sand spikes, umbrella and chair. About one hour later I was harassed by a young female wannabe "Security Guard" from the Sand Key Condo's asking me if I lived there and where did I live. She stated I I wasn't allowed to be there. I informed her I was on federal property and that she had no authority. She accused me of "camping" on the beach. Just ludicrous. There are all of these new "Private Property" signs up and down the beach that weren't there last year. I was nowhere near the property lines. Several other fisherman arrived later and where accosted by another female wannabe/ "Security Guard." I did a quick Google search and found a regulation that stated that access is granted to the general public "within 100 yards of the low water mark." Has anyone else experienced this harassment? Are there other regulations that I'm unaware of?


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Ummm...don't know where you came up with 300 feet inland from the high tide mark is public...but it's wrong. Florida uses mean high tide line.


----------



## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

I would lay on my back in the wet sand at the shore break directly in front of the rent a cop hotel and air hump the sky and dare them to lawfully make me leave. They don’t own the beach.

No one owns our natural resources like that. If they want to play that game, they better not get a dime of federal or state assistance for beach renourishment when the next hurricane erodes that shoreline.


----------



## SurfRidr (Apr 24, 2012)

I have heard of this sort of thing in other areas further east of here. My understanding is that you are correct - as much as the condos and resorts would like to own the beaches all the way to the water's edge, they cannot. As stated I think it's mainly above the mean high tide line that there can be property rights. Just make sure you're not trespassing in the process of accessing said beach and you're within your right to be there. Someone I know had this happen enough times that he actually printed up little fliers with the relevant statutes on it and if someone approached him like that, he would just smile and give them a flier and ask them to move on. He included the relevant statute such as this one as well:



*Title XXVIII*
NATURAL RESOURCES; CONSERVATION, RECLAMATION, AND USE*Chapter 379*
FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION*View Entire Chapter*
379.105 Harassment of hunters, trappers, or fishers.—
(1) A person may not intentionally, within a publicly or privately owned wildlife management or fish management area or on any state-owned water body:
(a) Interfere with or attempt to prevent the lawful taking of fish, game, or nongame animals by another.
(b) Attempt to disturb fish, game, or nongame animals or attempt to affect their behavior with the intent to prevent their lawful taking by another.
(2) Any person who violates this section commits a Level Two violation under s. 379.401.


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

kingfish501 said:


> Ummm...don't know where you came up with 300 feet inland from the high tide mark is public...but it's wrong. Florida uses mean high tide line.


Got it from the


SurfRidr said:


> I have heard of this sort of thing in other areas further east of here. My understanding is that you are correct - as much as the condos and resorts would like to own the beaches all the way to the water's edge, they cannot. As stated I think it's mainly above the mean high tide line that there can be property rights. Just make sure you're not trespassing in the process of accessing said beach and you're within your right to be there. Someone I know had this happen enough times that he actually printed up little fliers with the relevant statutes on it and if someone approached him like that, he would just smile and give them a flier and ask them to move on. He included the relevant statute such as this one as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nps.gov was the website. It stated that the Naval Live Oaks areas extends to 100 yards from the low water mark. I guess that area is in Gulf Breeze in Pensacola.


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

SurfRidr said:


> I have heard of this sort of thing in other areas further east of here. My understanding is that you are correct - as much as the condos and resorts would like to own the beaches all the way to the water's edge, they cannot. As stated I think it's mainly above the mean high tide line that there can be property rights. Just make sure you're not trespassing in the process of accessing said beach and you're within your right to be there. Someone I know had this happen enough times that he actually printed up little fliers with the relevant statutes on it and if someone approached him like that, he would just smile and give them a flier and ask them to move on. He included the relevant statute such as this one as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tx. I would love to get my hands on those statutes. Tx for the one above.


----------



## Catchemall (May 8, 2018)

It seems like tyrant wannabes are everywhere. Tell them you are calling the REAL authorities and are pressing charges against them for violating FS 379.105. THEN DO IT!


----------



## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

When that happens, I just smile and ignore them.


----------



## kanaka (Oct 3, 2007)

Next time ask if her name is Karen just before you take a pic of her. 

Minus points if it's a vertical video or pic.


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

will do


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

americanpatriot said:


> Got it from the
> 
> 
> 
> Nps.gov was the website. It stated that the Naval Live Oaks areas extends to 100 yards from the low water mark. I guess that area is in Gulf Breeze in Pensacola.


That is 100 yards OFFSHORE of the low water mark...not 100 yards INLAND. The NPS controls the water around its shores. The area on Santa Rosa Island and Perdido Key, they control the water 1 mile OFFSHORE north and south of the park. At Naval Live Oaks they control the water 100 yards offshore of the north and south of the park.

That is a National Park, different rules than state law.


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

kingfish501 said:


> That is 100 yards OFFSHORE of the low water mark...not 100 yards INLAND. The NPS controls the water around its shores. The area on Santa Rosa Island and Perdido Key, they control the water 1 mile OFFSHORE north and south of the park. At Naval Live Oaks they control the water 100 yards offshore of the north and south of the park.
> 
> That is a National Park, different rules than state law.


Got it


----------



## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

Do we need to organize a PFF group surf fishing meet up, explain to the young lady the err in her ways?


----------



## SurfRidr (Apr 24, 2012)

DLo said:


> Do we need to organize a PFF group surf fishing meet up, explain to the young lady the err in her ways?


lol that would be funny


----------



## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Santa Rosa has been fighting this for a few months. The beach property owners there have been pushing hard for nobody in their back yard. Their take is you had better have wet feet or you are on my property.

The law says the mean high tide line, a good estimate is if it has recently been wet you are probably good.

I think there is also a "customary use" clause that sorta says, if people have been using the beach up to the dunes for years and years, they should be able to use that same standard today.

I think it's working it's way through the Florida courts now. There is a high profile lawyer inSanta Rosa you might want to contact.

Daniel Uhlfelder... he has been leading the fight to keep the beaches open. I'm not a fan of everything he does, but I'm sure he'd like to hear your story.

He is very liberal, but wants the beaches to remain open.









Customary use quandary


Walton County attorney Daniel Uhlfelder traveled quite a ways from his WaterColor home this weekend to wiggle his toes in the dry sand beach behind the Vizcaya residential community. Armed with an …



www.nwfdailynews.com





Jim


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

americanpatriot said:


> Arrived at the Gulf National Shores and parked in the first PUBLIC Parking lot off of Sand Key Drive at 0530 this a.m. I was at the high water mark with poles, sand spikes, umbrella and chair. About one hour later I was harassed by a young female wannabe "Security Guard" from the Sand Key Condo's asking me if I lived there and where did I live. She stated I I wasn't allowed to be there. I informed her I was on federal property and that she had no authority. She accused me of "camping" on the beach. Just ludicrous. There are all of these new "Private Property" signs up and down the beach that weren't there last year. I was nowhere near the property lines. Several other fisherman arrived later and where accosted by another female wannabe/ "Security Guard." I did a quick Google search and found a regulation that stated that access is granted to the general public "within 100 yards of the low water mark." Has anyone else experienced this harassment? Are there other regulations that I'm unaware of?


I had to go back and read your original post. The first public parking lot is an Escambia county parking lot. Sandy Key Drives doesnt go to Johnson Beach.

If you moved east of that parking lot, you were either on the property of La Playa or east of that...Sandy Key Condo property.

You were nowhere NEAR federal property. Just as charts are a boaters friend, maps are your friend on land.

She was right, you were in the wrong.


----------



## shipoke (Jul 11, 2008)

escmbia county beach acess #1 is a narrow strip of sand that leads to the gulf where the snorkling reef is. the stripis between


----------



## Boardfeet (Sep 27, 2007)

This is a great idea!

* DLo
Registered*
Joined Oct 2, 2007
3,036 Posts
#13 • 9 h ago
Do we need to organize a PFF group surf fishing meet up, explain to the young lady the err in her ways?


----------



## shipoke (Jul 11, 2008)

Escambia county beach access #1 is a narrow strip of sand that leads to the gulf where the snorkeling reef is. The strip is between Beach Colony Resort and La Playa Condos. Step outside that strip and Barney Fife will be on your ass. There is no where the lay your gear down except the wet sand or the water. Why would the County build a reef there with those conditions? They should be embarrassed. 
Shipoke.
Sorry about the mess i made above. couldnt figure how to edit or delete.


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

kingfish501 said:


> I had to go back and read your original post. The first public parking lot is an Escambia county parking lot. Sandy Key Drives doesnt go to Johnson Beach.
> 
> If you moved east of that parking lot, you were either on the property of La Playa or east of that...Sandy Key Condo property.
> 
> ...


If he was below the MHWL, why was he in the wrong, I'm not following you here unless you are meaning where he may have parked.


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

DLo said:


> Do we need to organize a PFF group surf fishing meet up, explain to the young lady the err in her ways?


If Pensacola Beach not fishable due to June grass I intend on revisiting Perdido on Saturday.


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

H2OMARK said:


> If he was below the MHWL, why was he in the wrong, I'm not following you here unless you are meaning where he may have parked.


Maybe because he convinced himself that he could be 300 feet beyond the MHWL and that anywhere inside that was good by misreading the NPS page...reread his post...he had no idea WHERE he was. Coming off the strip of county land would have put him on LaPlaya property, not Sandy Key property. Plus, even if he crossed those 2 properties and made it to Johnson Beach, he would still be trespassing because he snuck into the park without paying.


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

kingfish501 said:


> Maybe because he convinced himself that he could be 300 feet beyond the MHWL and that anywhere inside that was good by misreading the NPS page...reread his post...he had no idea WHERE he was. Coming off the strip of county land would have put him on LaPlaya property, not Sandy Key property. Plus, even if he crossed those 2 properties and made it to Johnson Beach, he would still be trespassing because he snuck into the park without paying.


OK I reread his OP. Here's what he said and I quote "

Arrived at the Gulf National Shores and parked in the first PUBLIC Parking lot off of Sand Key Drive at 0530 this a.m. I was at the high water mark with poles, sand spikes"

So even if he wasn't on the National Seashore he says he was still on the MHWL which is perfectly legal. I don't know how it works as far as walking the shoreline onto the NS so he may have been trespassing there but if he did what is quoted, he was within his rights behind LaPlaya, Sandy Key or where ever. The 300 feet remark came from a google search after the "security guard" encounter so really has no bearing as to what actually happened.


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

DLo said:


> Do we need to organize a PFF group surf fishing meet up, explain to the young lady the err in her ways?


if this is them, I'll be there...


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

H2OMARK said:


> OK I reread his OP. Here's what he said and I quote "
> 
> Arrived at the Gulf National Shores and parked in the first PUBLIC Parking lot off of Sand Key Drive at 0530 this a.m. I was at the high water mark with poles, sand spikes"
> 
> So even if he wasn't on the National Seashore he says he was still on the MHWL which is perfectly legal. I don't know how it works as far as walking the shoreline onto the NS so he may have been trespassing there but if he did what is quoted, he was within his rights behind LaPlaya, Sandy Key or where ever. The 300 feet remark came from a google search after the "security guard" encounter so really has no bearing as to what actually happened.


 You left out his chair, because everyone sets up their chair in water, right? He had no idea where he was...no idea where Johnson Beach was from him( 1/2 mile east of him) didn't know Florida law on access, but set up on the MHWL? With the surf this weekend, the MHWL would have been in the wash area. If he set his chair up on dry sand he was on someone's property.


----------



## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

That's the problem. Nobody can determine the MHWL.

My opinion, if sand has been recently wet, ie, a weed line or an obvious wet sand line high up towards the dunes, you are good.

I've owned a condo on Perdido Key. I now own a condo on Jacksonville Beach. I'm good with people enjoying the beach all the way up to the dunes. Here in JAX, the high tide almost kisses the dunes every once in a while,

We also have parking for 20 or so cars every short block. Parks with 100 or some spots every half mile or so.

Jim


----------



## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

DLo said:


> Do we need to organize a PFF group surf fishing meet up, explain to the young lady the err in her ways?


As I understand it, elected officials, especially Doug Underhill, but also Matt Gaetz have been pushing for hotel and condo owners to have control of the beach area. This is why you’re seeing signs that were not there last year. The solution is to let them know how you feel and if that doesn’t work, vote them out.


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

kingfish501 said:


> You left out his chair, because everyone sets up their chair in water, right? He had no idea where he was...no idea where Johnson Beach was from him( 1/2 mile east of him) didn't know Florida law on access, but set up on the MHWL? With the surf this weekend, the MHWL would have been in the wash area. If he set his chair up on dry sand he was on someone's property.


You're speculating. Depending on the tide he could have very well had his chair in or below the MHWL. Maybe he'll post back up and tell us where he actually was. You don't happen to own a condo on the water do you?


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Florabama said:


> As I understand it, elected officials, especially Doug Underhill, but also Matt Gaetz have been pushing for hotel and condo owners to have control of the beach area. This is why you’re seeing signs that were not there last year. The solution is to let them know how you feel and if that doesn’t work, vote them out.


seems to be alot of people not pleased with this guy Underhill. I've had a experience with him, I'm NOT impressed.... big money will win every time....


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

Realtor said:


> seems to be alot of people not pleased with this guy Underhill. I've had a experience with him, I'm NOT impressed.... big money will win every time....


Could be because Doug's house is on the water....


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

H2OMARK said:


> You're speculating. Depending on the tide he could have very well had his chair in or below the MHWL. Maybe he'll post back up and tell us where he actually was. You don't happen to own a condo on the water do you?


No condo, period. I can, however, read a map and see where he claimed to be...on federal property adjoining Sandy Key...except Sandy Key doesn't adjoin Johnson Beach. Got a ways to go from Sandy Key...a stretch of private property AND THEN another set of condos. No skin off my nose if the OP gets popped for trespass. Just saying don't rag on people for doing their job when you have no frigging idea where you are.


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

H2OMARK said:


> Could be because Doug's house is on the water....


is it?


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

On innerarity


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

Mr Kingfish501’s tag line seems appropriate... he doesn’t appear well. I certainly knew EXACTLY where I was. I wasn’t trespassing. I walked down the narrow public path then traversed the “MHWL” that is customarily identified as such i.e. the wet sand to the east. I understand the vagaries in identifying the true MHWL. My chair was in the wet sand. Before you go popping off, take a breath.

I personally spoke with Tim Day, Senior Manager of the Natural Resource Management Dept. He confirmed that what I did was PERFECTLY legal. He also confirmed the “Wet Sand” standard as a measure of the MHWL.
My thanks to those of you who remained gentlemanly and appropriate.
Tight Lines.


----------



## Ronb (Jul 22, 2019)

Realtor said:


> if this is them, I'll be there...
> View attachment 1069201



No doubt. If these are the guards I'd even tell'em I was carrying just to get cuffed and frisked! Where was this again?


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

americanpatriot said:


> Mr Kingfish501’s tag line seems appropriate... he doesn’t appear well. I certainly knew EXACTLY where I was. I wasn’t trespassing. I walked down the narrow public path then traversed the “MHWL” that is customarily identified as such i.e. the wet sand to the east. I understand the vagaries in identifying the true MHWL. My chair was in the wet sand. Before you go popping off, take a breath.
> 
> I personally spoke with Tim Day, Senior Manager of the Natural Resource Management Dept. He confirmed that what I did was PERFECTLY legal. He also confirmed the “Wet Sand” standard as a measure of the MHWL.
> My thanks to those of you who remained gentlemanly and appropriate.
> Tight Lines.


If you knew exactly where you were, how did, per your own words,

1) think you were on federal property adjoining Sandy Key, when Sandy Key doesn't adjoin federal property at any point. In fact there is a stretch of private property adjoining Sandy Key to the east AND east of that is Lands End condos and east of that is Vista del Mar condos before Johnson Beach property...and between Sandy Key and the parking lot you started from is La Playa condos.
2) have to ask where public use area of the beach was, then misread the NPS rules for Live Oak and think the public area stretched 300 feet from the water.

So did you stop at the first set of condos...La Playa
The second set of condos...Sandy Key
The private property after Sandy Key and before Lands End
The third set of condos...Lands End 
The fourth set of condos...Playa del Mar?
In other words...you haveno idea where you were...and wet sand is not the indication of MHWL. Waves wash over the MHWL all the time.


----------



## americanpatriot (May 31, 2020)

Given all that has happened and is happening in this world, your continued escalation of this topic is entirely inappropriate. I dont know you or what your journey has been in this life, but as a physician for over the last 37 years, I can tell you that there is clearly some significant issues that warrant addressing. This will be my last entry so I wish you good cheer and a smooth road to better mental health.
All the Best.


----------



## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

americanpatriot said:


> Given all that has happened and is happening in this world, your continued escalation of this topic is entirely inappropriate. I dont know you or what your journey has been in this life, but as a physician for over the last 37 years, I can tell you that there is clearly some significant issues that warrant addressing. This will be my last entry so I wish you good cheer and a smooth road to better mental health.
> All the Best.


Rofl. I have no mental issues, "doctor"...but then again, I don't make up a lie like you did for attention. Sorry you got called out for your fantasy of putting those big, mean female security guards in their place, but maybe next time you should at least check a map before you "embellish" a story. Facts are a pain in the butt when they are pointed out to you, aren't they.
Have a nice day , doc.


----------



## Alumacrafty (Feb 4, 2018)

I had a homeowner of very large home on the non beach side of the road threaten me that she was calling the sheriff because I was on her property. This was in Destin. I was on hard sand so I told her to call the sheriff because your harassing me for fishing on public property and that is against the law. Instead of calling the sheriff she called her husband. He saw where we were at and told his wife they have the right to be where they are. He turned and walked back to home.

a couple days later a sheriff drove by so I stopped him and explained what happened. He said as long as you are close to hard sand you are fine. Apparently many homeowners were told they owned up to the water and have been paying tax based on that value of beach owned propert.


----------



## OldMan-theSea (May 14, 2018)

Alumacrafty said:


> .... have been paying tax based on that value of beach owned property.


They THINK they have been paying. That's what happens when people move to the coast from inland areas. They also probably don't realize that they cannot prevent you from taking refuge when the weather turns really bad, too.


----------



## Alumacrafty (Feb 4, 2018)

Please watch this. Looks like you hire an attorney and you basically purchase the rights to the water.


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

I take it from that that everything that's be said in here stands. MHWL is still protected and there are suits in for customary use which will include dry sand as well. Did I miss something?


----------



## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

When the news reported that HB 631 was signed by then Governor Scott, everyone knew there would be signs going up restricting beach access. Walton beaches near Mike Hukabee's house was the first that I heard of police being called. I was surprised at the time that more wasn't said on the forum about being restricted.


----------



## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

When they get washed away from a storm. Everybody better be protesting when they wanna do beach renourishment to the "private property". If the people wanna own up to the mhwl then they can pay for the sand themselves. But I'm guessing some place in that bill its says tax payers still foot the bill for renoureshment 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

lettheairout said:


> When they get washed away from a storm. Everybody better be protesting when they wanna do beach renourishment to the "private property". If the people wanna own up to the mhwl then they can pay for the sand themselves. But I'm guessing some place in that bill its says tax payers still foot the bill for renoureshment
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


And no public subsidized homeowners insurance, if you can claim down to the water, you can provide your own private insurance, if no private insurance will cover you then, in case of disaster, you need to have a bond that will cover removal of all the building material from the sand and you forfeit your lease. AND...If you go on the news and whine about how it's not fair...locals are allowed use you as cut bait while surf fishing.


----------

