# seal team training



## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

If you want to find out about seal team training here is A place to find out' rogersshootingschool.com I met Bill at a good Friend house several years back, super nice guy. A little back ground he started the FBI new training program after the Miami shoot out. He has been for most in training for LEO-military-civ. This is the place to go. just my two cents jj


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

From Bill Rogers website under philosophy: 

_"We tell people that the original inventors had that intent when they designed the weapon and that is why it was called a handgun and not hand(s) gun. Over the years of training, we have had a number of past students who claim to be alive because they learned those one handed skills at our school. Unfortunately, most shooting schools, including those operated by the military and police, do very little training with one hand.

With the advent of the video recorder mounted in the police car, many shootouts have been recorded in the last few years. A review of these shows a majority of the officers using one hand techniques even when they were not trained to do so. At the Rogers Shooting School half of our instruction is dedicated toward one hand use of the weapon. This is just one of the aspects that separate us from other schools._"


And as my students know I train the same way.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Looks like a great school! I'd like to take his October Intermediate Pistol/Shotgun combo course...need to start saving my fun money!


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

*Check out these Prices! I'm not charging enough!*

*Bill Rogers School


Advanced or Intermediate Handgun Class cost:*

Tuition —————————————————————————————-$1,200 
Lunch at the Range and Dinner at the Lodge (recommended) ——-$50.00 plus sales tax
Optional shotgun program taught concurrently —————-$200 
Optional carbine/rifle program taught concurrently ———-$300 
Breakfast and Lodging using the school facility—$125 plus sales tax, optional. Our lodge facility is set up to handle up to 18 students. It has 3 units that each has 6 bunks, 2 showers, 2 sinks, and 2 toilets. It has a dining hall and a large gathering room.
Ammunition———-Student supplies approved ammunition or makes arrangements well in advance of the scheduled class to purchase from school.
*Basic Handgun Class*

Over the years, our *Basic Handgun class* has been instrumental in developing the interest of hundreds of beginners in shooting; more information can be found on our Classes page. It has also given shooters that are experienced with a handgun but have never worked out of a holster, the necessary skills to take our Intermediate- Advanced class. For this reason we have always discounted our Basic Class dramatically. The Basic Handgun program does not offer an optional shoulder weapon course. We welcome anyone who can legally possess a firearm, including children over 14 years old, as long as their parents are present. For the Basic Class the School will supply handguns, (both revolvers and semi-autos), holster gear, ammunition and food/lodging. We reduce our tuition fee to $1000. We do not charge a rental fee on the use of 4 different handguns. We charge a flat fee of $600 plus sales tax to include lodging, three meals a day and all ammunition. The maximum size for our Basic Class is 12 students.
Basic Handgun cost:
Tuition, ——————————————————————————————————$1000.00
Use of school handguns, ammunition, food and lodging—————————$600 plus sales tax


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

Did I miss something, but that was for a 5 day class all day. I know I am not real sharp with numbers but I think that comes out to about 30.00 a hour.and 240.00 for 8 hrs, and 10.00 a day for the meals. Did I not under stand that you get 60.00 an hour and no meals. Wouldn't that come to 480.00 a day for 8hrs. Maybe when you get that kind of training range you could offer a higher caliber of training. Other wise you may be charging to much. Don't just give part of the details. jj A patriot for truth


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## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

glassplus said:


> Did I miss something, but that was for a 5 day class all day. I know I am not real sharp with numbers but I think that comes out to about 30.00 a hour.and 240.00 for 8 hrs, and 10.00 a day for the meals. Did I not under stand that you get 60.00 an hour and no meals. Wouldn't that come to 480.00 a day for 8hrs. Maybe when you get that kind of training range you could offer a higher caliber of training. Other wise you may be charging to much. Don't just give part of the details. jj A patriot for truth


Man some of guys really have it out for Capt. Ron. What part of private one on one instruction do you guys not understand? You can't compare a private lesson to group instruction. It's comparing apples to oranges. Do you really think one would be shooting non-stop the entire 8 hours with their own private instructor at one of these schools. Both types of training are profitable for sure, but they are different. There would be lots of standing around while waiting your turn to shoot or run a course. 

Lets say an instructor could average 40 hours a week year round. When you take into account weather, holidays, etc it would be hard to average more. 40*60=2400/wk 2400*52= $124,800 per year GROSS.

Take out cost of maintaining a range/buisness: mortgage/lease, insurance, taxes, equipment and all the other cost associated with running a business and there isn't a whole left over for yourself and family.

No one is going to get rich doing this, so it must be something that someone has an obvious passion for. For the one's complaining..... What's your profession/skill and what do you consider fair compensation? Most folks will tell you they are underpaid. Yet these same people are always quick to point out someone is overcharging.

I assure you the "tactical schools" with their - run em through like cattle - mentality is making much more than Cap't Ron and not delivering the same level of personal attention and focus on you. I would think anyone who owns or has owned a business in the past surely understands what I'm saying. There are so many cost that pop up when running a small business. It seems like all you do is write checks and you are always the last on the list to get paid.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Some folks -- due to their experience, education and training -- can command a higher tuition than others.

Most nationally known instructors have life experiences and knowledge that brings students to them who are willing to invest significantly more to participate in their training programs.

It would be foolish to think that all firearms instructors or training programs are equal, even with basic "NRA training" available locally. Each level of instructor or program fills a need in the shooting community -- and I am glad they all exist. However, I am one of those shooters who wouldn't think twice about spending a couple of grand to train under an instructor with a lengthy resume in a well defined and proven program such as Bill Rogers for my well earned annual "vacation".

For others, that simply isn't possible or financially wise.


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

I was wandering how long it would take some one to figure all this out. I just have a problem when some one say they are some thing when they are not and then keep trying to justify it. I have shot with some of the top shoots and trainers in the county and have never heard any one of them talk about how great they were are that they way was the best and all ways trying to prove it. I have been Lucky to be able to attend several tactical school's that I did not have to pay for, one I did was 450 for 3 days. I know several that have been to Front sight. When I am working with some one I try to go with they pace and build from there. I know what it has got me to get to where I,m at and I,not a top shot. I'm working to hard, tired and retired. just my two cents got to go go and burn some power.The sun is shining jj


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

Ive shot many a match back in the day, where Bill Rogers was among the many competitors, he was always among the top 20 in just about every major match. Later, he got into the holster business and catered to both competition shooters and also the tacticool crowd. I have no idea how he ranks among the new age deffensive shooting school instructors, but he was a hell of a shooter, so I can only presume he's just as good an instructor?


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

glassplus said:


> Did I miss something, but that was for a 5 day class all day. I know I am not real sharp with numbers but I think that comes out to about 30.00 a hour.and 240.00 for 8 hrs, and 10.00 a day for the meals. Did I not under stand that you get 60.00 an hour and no meals. Wouldn't that come to 480.00 a day for 8hrs. Maybe when you get that kind of training range you could offer a higher caliber of training. Other wise you may be charging to much. Don't just give part of the details. jj A patriot for truth


I'm willing to bet ol' bill would tell you to pound sand if you offered to pay him $30 for a training session.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Actually,
What I really wanted to say:

I shoot everyday rain or shine about 200-300 rounds on various guns. My poor days of shooting out number my good days as my body and eye sight deteriorates slowly. 

But, I'm still in very good cardiovascular and mental shape and I think most of you who met me would agree. Now, I have NEVER attended a 5 DAY (everyday shooting) straight shooting class because I know after day 2 of shooting my finger is sore, my eyes are tired, and I'm mentally tired from all the new info I have absorbed and people I have met and traveling I have done. Not to mention sleeping in a strange place and dealing with all the issues back home while I'm gone.

I have found in just Glock's 2.5 day instructor workshop course where we only shot a 1000 rds total, that these other veteran seasoned shooters, including myself were beat physically and mentally from barely any training at all, simply from traveling, staying in a hotel, shooting and following someone's instructions.
Now I know most you could handle this course with your eyes closed and asleep so please don't take offense to my post. But for the rest of us...

I have noticed my students, many experienced shooters, exhausted after just 2 hours with me and shooting 300 rounds.

I think a 5 days course is a poor way to train for MY value at any price simply because I believe after the first day or two, the rest is just going through on zombie mode and ego for the rest of us who aren't machines. I don't know the absolutely details of Bill's course, but I still believe two days is the max amount of training that could be truly beneficial to the AVERAGE shooter.

I am a big fan of Bill Roger's training, that's why I subscribe to his video training series as well as other instructors. I am at a shooting level where videos are nearly all I need, because I know why I miss when I miss and I have my own private gun range. If Bill says something I don't understand, I can play the video back again. At least Bill is instructing in the whole video, while in his civilian courses he typically only makes guest appearances so I have read, does a demo displaying "inhuman" speed, and then lets his instructors take over for most of the remainder of the course. Most students will not ask questions when they don't understand and will simply wait to be corrected rather than be wrongly self-embarrassed for asking a question. I have asked questions in training for clarification receiving answers is not always fun.

Now all that being said, I have no problems training anybody through a particular video training series they may choose to use for their training.

My firearms training is simply a culmination of many seasoned instructors that I have studied under personally and by video with my own style of teaching added. 

I have developed a few original training aids that I hope to someday have patent pending. 

I'm the proud son of a retired chemical engineer who designed and fabricated the first injected molded tennis ball and later on became one the the F-18 engine designers at Pratt&Whitney. My passion is to improve upon everything that is made or being taught. It's in my blood. And Yes, I know this can be annoying, but it's simply who I am. 
I'm a big boy, and I appreciate everyone's input. You all keep my ego in check, because some days, I truly am superhuman


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

I will have to agree with ron on most of what he is saying here. I have shot some class that were 3 and 4 days,and alot people started to complain,and when they start doing this, they are not learning. I quest I just love to shot, when I was going to camp Perry I would go for 2 weeks, I was glad to get home. Some the best shooting I have done lately is the 3-gun at Fort benning put on by the AMU, thats 2 1/2 days. I have saved up, and I'm going this weekend to Frost Proof for a 2-day shoot. This is were I learn alot about my self and my ability. 
Not such how this post got to this point, because all I did was post information on one place that seal trained and a place for for others could learn about. Working to hard,got to rest, think i will go out and burn some more powder. jj


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

Im not a member of the capt ron fan club; but he makes some valid points. 300 "quality" rounds of shooting can be a lot for the average shooter, much less someone just learning to shoot. I used to routinely shoot around a 1,000 rounds a week for my practice sessions. Some days 3-400 quality shots for practice was comfortable, but when your not shooting up to par, 25 rounds can be to many. It makes no sense to keep shooting if your off on the fundamentals and not having a quality practice session, all you end up accomplishing is practice pulling the trigger, which even that, you might be doing a piss poor job of.
Ron was quite honest in his view of not necessarily needing a great pistol shot to be able to teach good shooting. From what Ive seen in Rons videos, he is not necessarily a great shooter, but certainly above average. Ive seen a number of shooting coaches,who themselves wouldn't make the cut to run with C class shooters, posess the ability to teach a potential great shooter to become just that. It takes special skills to teach as well as patience, for that I tip my hat to Ron, so I suspect he can indeed teach a neophyte or average shooter to become better.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

I'll take above average shooter any day! Because 99.9 percent of my business comes from below average shooters!
Many people don't like to be judged, but I accept all critiques with the sincerity in which they are given.

Az-Vic, I will make you a fan


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

Not a knock Ron, just an honest informed opinion. Over a 30 year period of state, national and international competition Ive had the good fortune to shoot with the best shooters in the world, so I know at what level a shooter is when I see one. If being a truely fine pistol or revolver shooter was easy....everyone would be.
It takes several different skills combined, to shake out into becoming a great shooter. Most have some of the skills necessary, and generally can become average or above average. It's the few that have the whole mix required, that can become truely fine handgun shooters. True of just about any sporting endeavor I can think of?


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

*good shooter*

Az-Vic you must be a good carpenter, you have hit the nail on the head. I wish I could keep it to gather all the time, I might could be above average.

Just wish I could shoot 200-300 rds a day rain or shine. I want to sale Ron his ammo.
that is from 73,000 to 109,500 rds a year that could be up to 37,850.00 dollars a year, at a average cost of 15.00 a box, I,m just jalousie jj


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

glassplus said:


> Az-Vic you must be a good carpenter, you have hit the nail on the head. I wish I could keep it to gather all the time, I might could be above average.
> 
> Just wish I could shoot 200-300 rds a day rain or shine. I want to sale Ron his ammo.
> that is from 73,000 to 109,500 rds a year that could be up to 37,850.00 dollars a year, at a average cost of 15.00 a box, I,m just jalousie jj


That's just what I _typically _shoot, that's not including the ammo spent in my classes! I had $530.00 in recycled brass returned this trip almost two months worth. That's a new Glock at my cost of $438.16!
My 80 year old dad who is visiting me for a few months went with me to the recycling place and was impressed by the process. Now he walks around the range with a little hand grabber thingy picking up brass. I'm telling dad that's how he is going to have to pay for his cigarettes from recycled brass..from exercising while picking up !


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

I have heard that the thunder ranch training is some of the best. The guy that puts this on is real damn good.


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

as soon as i get my les baer 1911 i am going to his school


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

Youtube some of clint smiths videos


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

Where are you saleing your brass, how much are they paying. I have about four 20gals drums I need to get some thing for.How many lbs did you get paid for. jj


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

glassplus said:


> Where are you saleing your brass, how much are they paying. I have about four 20gals drums I need to get some thing for.How many lbs did you get paid for. jj



See PM


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

glassplus said:


> . Some the best shooting I have done lately is the 3-gun at Fort benning put on by the AMU, thats 2 1/2 days. I have saved up, and I'm going this weekend to Frost Proof for a 2-day shoot. This is were I learn alot about my self and my ability.
> \. jj


I bet we have some mutual friends...Robbie Johnson, Jason St. John or Stan Ellis ring a bell?

I used to work right down the road from Krillings range


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