# This is for all of the people that say u cant grow trophy deer in FL!!!



## WACKEM&STACKEM! (Dec 9, 2008)

I see folks on here sayin that u wont grow deer in Fl, that deer wont never be bigger than a 90 in deer and on and on. I wanted yall to see this deer that was killed in Bay Co and within 5 miles of the beach!!! This lease is dog hunt only and they feed year around. You can only kill one buck a yr 8 point or better on this part of the lease. He hasnt been officially scored yet. He has been roughly scored between 135-140. Enjoy the pictures :thumbup:


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Dog hunted or not, that is a nice Florida deer, congrats.


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## SaltWaterBuck (Sep 2, 2013)

dang right !!! they grow you just gotta let em


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## Bravo87 (Jun 19, 2014)

Nice deer!


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

Sounds about right. There are some monsters there at Naval Support Activity in Panama City Beach. Inside the fence, in the woods behind the navy gateway and on the little island. Kinda funny since they are untouchable.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

slackwolf said:


> Sounds about right. There are some monsters there at Naval Support Activity in Panama City Beach. Inside the fence, in the woods behind the navy gateway and on the little island. Kinda funny since they are untouchable.


My dad sent me a picture of one last night that was easily 130 near the LCAC's.


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## DocHarkins127 (Nov 28, 2012)

Nice buck! Trophy deer can be found anywhere if they are managed right


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## Emerald Ghost (Mar 11, 2008)

I have a buddy who use to have an Ultralight and he would fly low over the big ranches in Central Florida and take photos of some very very nice bucks.
IF you let them go, they will grow.


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

Here's one following a doe a few years ago in Lillian, Al. 30' from the house. He slobbered all over my bench for that corn though!


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

Is that deer from last season?


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## Emerald Ghost (Mar 11, 2008)

January 31st, and he's on a hot doe.
Yeah buddy..


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

I let em walk in BW when they are that small:whistling: I'd be tickled pink fer a buck like that!!!:notworthy::thumbsup:


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

Jason. Hopefully my schedule allows to bow hunt like normal. If all goes right and our schedules meet in the middle we might be able to put you on a good buck. Might only get 1 shot at him but he is a good one. If not the are plenty of legal bucks and doe to be killed where we will be hunting

Sent from someplace unknown on Forum Runner


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## jmunoz (Jan 11, 2012)

lettheairout said:


> Jason. Hopefully my schedule allows to bow hunt like normal. If all goes right and our schedules meet in the middle we might be able to put you on a good buck. Might only get 1 shot at him but he is a good one. If not the are plenty of legal bucks and doe to be killed where we will be hunting
> 
> Sent from someplace unknown on Forum Runner


Welp looks like I know who I'm following ...lol


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

jmunoz said:


> Welp looks like I know who I'm following ...lol


You forget Justin.....I have a funk on me that doesn't allow me to see shooters in BW!!!!!!!!!!!:001_huh: That is unless Fink jumps out of a tree, then ties it up to said tree fer me!!!!


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Jason said:


> You forget Justin.....I have a funk on me that doesn't allow me to see shooters in BW!!!!!!!!!!!:001_huh: That is unless Fink jumps out of a tree, then ties it up to said tree fer me!!!!


Ain't that the truth. Even took you to my club and the funk followed you there too. But maybe it's a cycle thing. Maybe this is your year. 

I went two years and only shot two does those two years. Finally got the stink off of me. Hoping the stink stays off for this year. But the new regs in BW are going to be a bit different and we'll see what happens.


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## WACKEM&STACKEM! (Dec 9, 2008)

Wharf Rat said:


> Is that deer from last season?


 Yes it is


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## Justin37Hunt (Feb 20, 2014)

Sure, there's a deer or two like that here and there in the panhandle of Florida. The bucks with elite genetics that survive in an area with the highest nutritional habitat all while escaping the consequences our hunting seasons that are unfriendly to game management-- can grow to be that big. They are few and far between when compared to South Alabama, South Georgia, and South/Southeast Mississippi...all areas with better nutrition on a per acre basis and better hunting season regulations.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Justin37Hunt said:


> Sure, there's a deer or two like that here and there in the panhandle of Florida. The bucks with elite genetics that survive in an area with the highest nutritional habitat all while escaping the consequences our hunting seasons that are unfriendly to game management-- can grow to be that big. They are few and far between when compared to South Alabama, South Georgia, and South/Southeast Mississippi...all areas with better nutrition on a per acre basis and better hunting season regulations.


Plenty of FL deer make it big. Even some on public land too. 

But the two on my wall are FL deer. While not monsters by anything that can be taken in other parts of the country. They are mighty big for FL deer. The large 8 point was 210 lbs. And then there's the medium 10 point that would probably have been a monster if I had a little discipline. But being my first ever archery killed deer last year, I'd say I did alright.:thumbup:


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

That's just it. There are plenty of good deer around. If people will let them walk. How much meat do you get off 5 spikes. Vs 2 bigger bucks.

Sent from someplace unknown on Forum Runner


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

lettheairout said:


> That's just it. There are plenty of good deer around. If people will let them walk. How much meat do you get off 5 spikes. Vs 2 bigger bucks.
> 
> Sent from someplace unknown on Forum Runner


But them 5" spikes are a bit tastier. Just my opinion though. Haha:whistling:


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

Justin37Hunt said:


> Sure, there's a deer or two like that here and there in the panhandle of Florida. The bucks with elite genetics that survive in an area with the highest nutritional habitat all while escaping the consequences our hunting seasons that are unfriendly to game management-- can grow to be that big. They are few and far between when compared to South Alabama, South Georgia, and South/Southeast Mississippi...all areas with better nutrition on a per acre basis and better hunting season regulations.


Can you elaborate on this?


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

WACKEM&STACKEM! said:


> I see folks on here sayin that u wont grow deer in Fl, that deer wont never be bigger than a 90 in deer and on and on. I wanted yall to see this deer that was killed in Bay Co and within 5 miles of the beach!!! This lease is dog hunt only and they feed year around. You can only kill one buck a yr 8 point or better on this part of the lease. He hasnt been officially scored yet. He has been roughly scored between 135-140. Enjoy the pictures :thumbup:
> View attachment 368610
> 
> 
> ...


Michael,

Did that club ever get an estimate on the buck's age?


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## WACKEM&STACKEM! (Dec 9, 2008)

nastukey said:


> Michael,
> 
> Did that club ever get an estimate on the buck's age?


 They are pretty sure he was 4 1/2. They let him go the year before last.


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## RippinLips14 (Aug 10, 2014)

Nutrition is important, but I have seen young bucks with impressive racks in FL that lived in very poor soil. Genetics is the most important.


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

RippinLips14 said:


> Nutrition is important, but I have seen young bucks with impressive racks in FL that lived in very poor soil. Genetics is the most important.


This!!


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

RippinLips14 said:


> Nutrition is important, but I have seen young bucks with impressive racks in FL that lived in very poor soil. Genetics is the most important.


There are sub-species of Whitetail and the ones indigenous to our area have small bodies that evolved due to the heat and lack of nutrition (thus small racks). There was an influx of Wisconsin deer decades ago as part of an FWC restocking effort after the FL population was decimated. Some of those genes are still around. 

W&S posted a really nice 4.5. I've had the pleasure of also taking a couple of 100"+ deer here in the Panhandle, but for the most part, we don't have the genetics and nutrition for Midwest sized trophy animals or even bucks like W&S posted....they are few and far between. Find some of those Wisconsin genes and let them grow to 4.5 and you get a decent buck. 

The one on the hoof in the picture from last week just showed up on our property with another similar sized buck. He's a nice one...might go 100. But he is atypical for our property as we mostly get scrub sub-100 8pts even when they hit 5.5+.


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

Let me just add that most of the information out there lists the three factors that impact a bucks antler potential are age, nutrition, and genetics and one could argue they are in that order for a reason.

http://www.msudeer.com/nutrigen.asp

http://fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/antler.pdf

Relating to something mentioned above about restocking, genetics, etc.:
http://www.qdma.com/articles/the-case-of-the-vanishing-wisconsin-deer-genetics

FWIW, I have two sources posted from Mississippi State not because I am trying to push a "brand" but rather I attended the university and took courses under several of the research scientists mentioned in the text. Also, they have a "environment vs genetics" study that has been going for more than a decade. However, I am certain Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, etc have comparable studies in their respective forestry and wildlife programs.


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## Northernhunter (Sep 28, 2014)

Nice looking deer! Congrats. Plan on moving down that way in the future and looking forward to trying to get into some trophy buck. Pressure up here is intense and you really have to hint hard to even get on a mature buck. To many people shoot em before they have a chance to grow out some. But I have been blessed with a number of deer that are in the books. Really looking forward to spending some time to learn more about the southern deer.


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## RippinLips14 (Aug 10, 2014)

A couple of my buddies and I have killed many bucks in FL that weighed between 160-180 and even a couple that broke 200 lbs in Okaloosa county. Plenty of age and obviously the buck had been living long enough to put a ton of food consumption towards body growth. The equation for big rack was only lacking one thing...genetics. Genetics is king. That's why you have 175 pound cowhorns with 14 inch main beams and 1 year old basket rack 8 points around. Not to forget pressure and stress. That is huge. Take a place like blackwater for example. Thousands of people in the woods pushing deer around and causing them to be nocturnal for 95 percent of the time. Humans are no different. Stress = subpar potential


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

So what you are saying is I could bring a 2.5 year old buck from the MS delta....by all accounts good genetics but also some of the best habitat in the USA and release this buck in the average fl panhandle habitat and this buck would still produce 130-140 inches of antler at maturity? I call bs on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Scruggspc (Mar 20, 2013)

Just so everyone knows that buck came out of a high fence (property across the road) two weeks prior to being killed. My buddy has pictures of him at their feeders in the high fence. With that being said there are big bucks on low fence places if you feed them and let them grow.


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

nastukey said:


> Let me just add that most of the information out there lists the three factors that impact a bucks antler potential are age, nutrition, and genetics and one could argue they are in that order for a reason.


Both bucks in the same pickup bed taken during the rut.

Top 10pt buck: 
4.5 y/o, public land, no agriculture, no plotting, no feeders, beach sand environment with only acorns for 2 months a year. Scored 125 and weighed 170#.

Bottom 8pt buck:
4.5 y/o, private land, year round food plots at 6.5ph (soybeans, clover, grains), corn feeders, plus natural browse. Scored 89 and weighed 125#.

Bottom buck would have peaked in one or two more years, then declined in his rack. He would never make it over the minimum 100" to make the Florida Buck Registry. Genetics cannot be ignored.


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## Justin37Hunt (Feb 20, 2014)

nastukey said:


> Can you elaborate on this?


Sure. Which part?

It's well established genetics is one of the most critical components of deer antler size.

It's well established that stressed, malnutritioned deer do not reach their full potential in antler growth.

So that only leaves my last point, which is more of an opinion. If you look at the hunting seasons of our surrounding states and compare them to ours, you see one immediate difference. The availability of doe harvest days. For as long as I can remember, Florida doe days in this part of the state have been numbered few. I believe (and have personally witnessed this on two management-minded properties) that this lack of available doe season creates an opportunity for hunters who want to fill their freezers to harvest young bucks instead. Numerous times I've heard "I didn't really want to shoot this (small buck), but I didn't get a doe during bow season and didn't get to hunt but one day during doe days". In a four year span on a family run property, we killed 14 bucks that were 2.5 years or younger. Many times to fill freezers that were lacking due to a lack of opportunity to take does. My solution: doe tags. Max out the number of does a licensed hunter can take during a season via a tag system, but make that doe season more available for hunters. 

As for bucks in this part of Florida. I'm well aware of the type of bucks that can be killed here. I've killed two bucks in the Crestview area that score 118" and 126". In the last 10 years, off that same property, bucks scoring 146", 121", 132" and several in the 110-120" range have been killed. It's (more) fertile river bottom land, managed better now than ever. It still hails in comparison to my club in S. Alabama, leases I've ran in Auburn Alabama, and hunting clubs I've been to in Georgia.

So sure, you can grow trophy deer in Florida. Just not as well as you can in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi. As with almost anything, there will be some exceptions. With a strict management plan in an area of somewhat fertile soil on a piece of property with good genetics and large enough to properly manage the deer population...you could rival the average property in our neighboring states. Then again, that's kind of comparing apples to oranges, right? Apples to apples, those states still win.


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## RippinLips14 (Aug 10, 2014)

Your missing the point turkey. You can feed a buck with crap genes all the whatever you want in whatever environment and it still will not grow the bone you imagine it should. People tend to think that when they go to Canada that all the mature bucks you see up there will be 150-170 because they eat all that feed. Well that's not the case. Average bucks harvested up there are around 120-130 ask any guide or people that have experience with hunting places like this. The real big ones have the genetics to grow. Just like the pics shown above it takes genetics to really grow a 120+ inch buck in Florida. Nobody is saying that food isn't important. If you are genetically predisposed to only be 5 foot, then no matter what you eat you will never be 6'6.


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## WACKEM&STACKEM! (Dec 9, 2008)

Scruggspc said:


> Just so everyone knows that buck came out of a high fence (property across the road) two weeks prior to being killed. My buddy has pictures of him at their feeders in the high fence. With that being said there are big bucks on low fence places if you feed them and let them grow.


 Thats not the deer from Jernigan's. This deer was killed nowhere near a high fence. This deer was killed at the west end of Bay Co. Not Moccasin Creek


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

bcbz71 said:


> Both bucks in the same pickup bed taken during the rut.
> 
> Top 10pt buck:
> 4.5 y/o, public land, no agriculture, no plotting, no feeders, beach sand environment with only acorns for 2 months a year. Scored 125 and weighed 170#.
> ...


 I wasn't downplaying the importance of genetics but from strictly a management standpoint, of the three items listed above (age, nutrition, genetics) the latter presents the least opportunity of control by the hunter/manager.


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

RippinLips14 said:


> Your missing the point turkey. You can feed a buck with crap genes all the whatever you want in whatever environment and it still will not grow the bone you imagine it should. People tend to think that when they go to Canada that all the mature bucks you see up there will be 150-170 because they eat all that feed. Well that's not the case. Average bucks harvested up there are around 120-130 ask any guide or people that have experience with hunting places like this. The real big ones have the genetics to grow. Just like the pics shown above it takes genetics to really grow a 120+ inch buck in Florida. Nobody is saying that food isn't important. If you are genetically predisposed to only be 5 foot, then no matter what you eat you will never be 6'6.


 No...I think you are missing my point. Your previous post above alluded to genetics being the sole reason why the average buck here in the panhandle does not produce large antlers. My point was that a buck that may be predisposed to produce 130 inches of antler in "name the state" will very likely not do the same here in the panhandle because the habitat conditions here are poor in comparison to the surrounding states. A deer with even the most superior genetics will not be able to unlock his potential unless he has ample nutrition and plenty of time to grow. 

We've had some really nice deer harvested out of the panhandle over the past 10-15 years....a few of which were in high fenced areas but most were free range. Many of these deer came out of counties heavy with agriculture production or those adjacent to rivers or the river floodplain. To say that deer in all of the areas in between are small antlered simply because they have poor genetics when they haven't had access to sufficient nutrition is not a fair assessment.

The best thing we can do here in the panhandle is reduce the harvest of those yearling spikes and let them get some age on them, improve the level of nutrition available to the animals (something besides a corn feeder) and manage our expectations which for starters might include not worrying about what goes on in the surrounding states from a deer management standpoint because Florida is so much different than the other states regarding deer habitat management.....and for our sanity stop watching hunting programs on the Outdoor Channel or Pursuit.

Have a good day!!


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

nastukey said:


> The best thing we can do here in the panhandle is reduce the harvest of those yearling spikes and let them get some age on them, improve the level of nutrition available to the animals (something besides a corn feeder) and manage our expectations which for starters might include not worrying about what goes on in the surrounding states from a deer management standpoint because Florida is so much different than the other states regarding deer habitat management.....and for our sanity stop watching hunting programs on the Outdoor Channel or Pursuit.


 All good points. :thumbsup:


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

Justin37Hunt said:


> My solution: doe tags. Max out the number of does a licensed hunter can take during a season via a tag system, but make that doe season more available for hunters.


 Looks like we have turned W&S's nice buck post into a pre-season QDM session. If nothing else, it gets the juices flowing.

You have to be very careful with doe harvest as deer density is very regional. The national slogan is "kill every doe you see" but that doesn't apply to many places in Florida. If you don't have a noticeable browse line in your natural vegetation, you probably don't have a doe problem. The does on my private lease don't get bred until 3.5 and then, it's not a guarantee 1:1 fawn recruitment into the herd (natural death, coyote, not every doe gets bred). Your harvest can quickly surpass your recruitment and then you will be complaining about lack of deer sightings...buck or doe.

In 1994, I drove onto Tyndall AFB and noticed that it looked like someone had trimmed all vegetation from 4' and below. and you couldn't drive on base without seeing deer....many deer. Now, there is no noticeable browse line and you don't see many deer. The entire bow season harvest doesn't equal previous 1 day harvests. Simply put, the deer herd has been decimated and needs the does protected for a few years.


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

bcbz71 said:


> You have to be very careful with doe harvest as deer density is very regional. The national slogan is "kill every doe you see" but that doesn't apply to many places in Florida. If you don't have a noticeable browse line in your natural vegetation, you probably don't have a doe problem. The does on my private lease don't get bred until 3.5 and then, it's not a guarantee 1:1 fawn recruitment into the herd (natural death, coyote, not every doe gets bred). Your harvest can quickly surpass your recruitment and then you will be complaining about lack of deer sightings...buck or doe.


Well said.......points discussed ad nausem in past threads and in depth at the TAG meetings last year. You can manage the deer populations in surrounding states in more of a "statewide" manner because the habitat conditions are more homogenous over a much larger area. Here in the panhandle it seems like it almost changes from one county to the next. 

Good grief I can't wait for deer season to get here. It's right around the corner.


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## Justin37Hunt (Feb 20, 2014)

bcbz71 said:


> Looks like we have turned W&S's nice buck post into a pre-season QDM session. If nothing else, it gets the juices flowing.
> 
> You have to be very careful with doe harvest as deer density is very regional. The national slogan is "kill every doe you see" but that doesn't apply to many places in Florida.


No doubt. I'm not sure what the number could be. 2 does per license would probably be a good starting point for most places. At least this would allow the hunter to take up to two does, where in some instances these two kills would be young bucks. I'm not sure how different the harvest numbers for does would be with this change, but I would like to think it would only be slightly more than it is currently. Young buck harvests would decrease though.

Your point, however, brings up the foundation of my first post. One reason a two doe limit per season on an extended doe harvest period could threated the deer population in some areas, is because the state has less than ideal nutrition leading to fewer deer per acre. Most people do not realize that to a degree deer populations control themselves. If the food and nutrition is there, they will reproduce at a higher rate. More twins, etc. If the food and nutrition isn't there, you get what we have in most areas of northwest Florida: relatively low deer density numbers. A prime example is the blackbelt in Alabama. Go 50 miles north and the deer density numbers drop significantly.

Fun to talk about this stuff though.


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## saltbomb (Feb 15, 2010)

Not sure if it's true but I heard that deer came off hwy 388 between crooked and burnt mill creek


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

saltbomb said:


> Not sure if it's true but I heard that deer came off hwy 388 between crooked and burnt mill creek


Early this year, coming back from a late flight, I saw a stud standing on the side of the road at River Camps. Many years ago(10ish), I hunted in there a couple times. There was always allot of deer but over the last few years, I have seen some nice deer including that one giant early this year. I dont know if he was 140 but I would bet you a dollar to a doughnut he was 120-130. Point being, there are some big deer in those woods.


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