# Ethanol and your boat. How are you dealing with it?



## SHatten (Sep 30, 2007)

I have been doing a lot of reading in regards toethanol fuel and the negative type issues that occur with marine use. (Fuel tank and fuel lines degrading seems to be the big problem) I have a 2006 Key West with a 115 E-Tec motor. The fuel tank is fiberglass or some other typenon metal material. So far Ihave had noethanol related problems that I am aware of. I try to keep the fuel tank fullto prevent condensationbut this mightcreate problems ifI don't use the boat for several months or during the winter season.I have been using the marine grade Sta-bil and so fareverything seems to be working as should be. Just wondering how is everyone else dealing with ethanol fuel issue. Do you wait and run all your fuel out before re-filling?...Do you useSta-bil?...Find places that sell non-ethanol fuel? (If there is such a place.) Just like to know how others are dealing with this problem. Thanks for your input.


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## Flounderpounder (Oct 3, 2007)

Same as you.....Marine Stabil, and keep tank full. You didn't mention a fuel/water sepatator! If you don't have one, you might want to (and check/change filters regularly)! I run a Yammie F90not that itmatters.


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## BudYsr (Oct 1, 2007)

I haven't put Ethanol in my boat yet. The only place I've even seen it at is all the Wal-marts. In Florida, a sticker is REQUIRED on the pump. Also stations have until the end of 2010 to switch over. I'll go as long as I can till then with the MTBE gas. Ethanol is the devil in marine engines.

All you can really do is run it and not let the gas sit for long and keep the water seperators fresh. Gonna be real fun in the winter months with that and the stupid shelf life of E10.

I've posted these links before and suggest that everybody that hasn't to read up on the subject.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr/28/boaters-fuming-over-ethanol-gasoline/news-metro/

http://www.fuel-testers.com/review_gas_treatment_products.html


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

<DIV class=tf_search_item_title>other than avoiding the purchase of ethanol, ifI might, recommend adding an inline10 micron Racor or similar Fuel water seperatorwith a clear see through bowl at the bottom. </DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>I did this a few months ago and though it won't prevent all ethanol problems,I am hopeful that at least if I am getting water in the fuel or other substance froman ethanol induced breakdown of the boat's fuel system between the fuel tank and the engine, thatI will beable toseethe bad fuel in the bowl and at least attemptto prevent it from making it into the engine. The see through bowl allows you to drain water without removing the filter.</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>Don't know of any solution to prevent breakdown of engine fuel line components etc due to ethanol after fuel has passed through the filters and enters the engine...</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>Here is a picture of a racrofilter with clear bowl and drain at the bottom of the bowl.</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>







</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>Mark W</DIV>


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## afishhard (Oct 6, 2007)

Anyone know of a station between crestview and niceville with no ethanol?


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## fred (Dec 28, 2008)

I unhook the fuel line and run the engine dry while while lightly spraying Deep Creep in the intakebefore putting it up. SeaFoam in the tank.


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## InPursuit (Jun 29, 2008)

> *afishhard (6/8/2009)*Anyone know of a station between crestview and niceville with no ethanol?




Try Tom Thumbs or any little independent store, i know in Pcola those are the only stations that i found that didnt have ethanol..Be careful the sticker they put on the pump is real small showing that they have ethanol..Worse case i would rather pay more at the marina than put ethanol in my boat..All the Marina in our area Pcola To Panama City are ethanol free...


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## SCUBA Junkie (Oct 2, 2007)

Fueled yesterday at Cirkle K, Jackson at New Warrington, and it now has the ethanol sticker on the pump. I only hope StaBil and a good fuel/water separator will do the job as it will just get harder to find gas with no alcohol.


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## BudYsr (Oct 1, 2007)

One other thing Guys, as I understand it, its important NOT to mix ethanol gas with MTBE gas as they do not mix together well at all. Make sure you run the tank down low before you top it off with ethanol. I guess if its a small tank then it may not be a big deal but if you are dealing with many gallons of each, you might be asking for it.......


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## outbrdwrench (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep we are all still learning how to deal with this. One thing thatI have noticednoticed is that uv rays cause this fuel to breakdown superfast! so you guys that have the translucent tanks mounted under a center console, exposed to the sun maybe should cover the tank with black plastic when not in use. I ran into an interesting one the other day on a Yamaha F250.This person had a racor w/ cear bowl mounted in splashwell ( exposed to the sun ),I drained the filter, only the fuel in the filter & rest of motor fuel system,was reddish in color & smelled very weak. This boat was operated only three weeks earlier & wouldn't crank on this fuel! Took tank sample it was fine & not exposed to UV. I drained VST, Installed new racor element& it cranked up & ran fine after all this fuel left the fuel system!!I have been noticing the translucent tankseffects for awhile now, but this latest incident really proved to me how sensitive E-10 is to UV!!!


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't think the marine stations are carrying Ethanol. Does anyone know for sure about DayBreak, Bahia Mar etc...


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## Divebmbr (Feb 9, 2008)

It's good to see you guys are finding these stations. Perhaps we should start a thread that everyone can post the locations of stations as they find them. The stations I go to in Gulf Breeze just got the stickers last month when I was home. At least the one in front of Walmart. I'll ask some of the guys up here in NJ that have been dealing with ethanol for a while and see what they say. Great discussion. Thanks.


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## Dragnfly (Jan 25, 2008)

Thank you for the information. I'm running a 2007 yamaha 250. Manual says not to run anything over 10% ethanol, so I am assuming its ok, though I still avoid it. It seems like after 2010, next year, we are not going to have a choice. I dont know what to do about water bonding because I cant afford to run a 60gal tank of mid grade dry every 30 days! Sounds to me all marine engine manufacturers need to provide upgrades or we need to file one heck of a class action lawsuit, either on EPA or the engine manufactures. We shouldn't have to take the brunt of what is out of our control. Perhaps most gas pumps could provide a marine only pump or pumps ethanol free. Something needs to be done. Any attorneys out there ready to go! I'm on board.:hoppingmad


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## Chris Couture (Sep 26, 2007)

Should there be a new area on this forum to discuss this and direct members where they can fuel their boats without Ethanol? Kind of a heads up for all members as to where to stop? Suggestions?


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## Dragnfly (Jan 25, 2008)

Sounds good to me, thanks.


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

Shit, I just put walmart gas in my boat saturday. Its only a 13 gallon tank and its hidden from the sun. I used half a tank sat, should i fill it back up with non ethanol gas. Im going out on wed.


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## InPursuit (Jun 29, 2008)

> *Bill Me (6/8/2009)*I don't think the marine stations are carrying Ethanol. Does anyone know for sure about DayBreak, Bahia Mar etc...




Iam in the wholesale fuel business and i sell them their fuel and they are Ethanol FREE , our company sells marinas from Orange Bch to Panama City and iam not selling any marina ethanol..

Here the the short story, come Sept,Oct this year Shell Chemical Mobile is going to start adding ethanol in alll their fuel except they are going to leave one grade a marine fuel probably 90 octane.. The problem is most gas station are not going to stock fuel just for boats , but the good thing is that we will be able to get ethanol free fuel from out local marinas.. By Dec 2010 the state of Florida has to be 10% ethanol in all fuel produced except with the exemption for marina and off road vehicle..


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## BudYsr (Oct 1, 2007)

> *InPursuit (6/9/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Bill Me (6/8/2009)*I don't think the marine stations are carrying Ethanol. Does anyone know for sure about DayBreak, Bahia Mar etc...
> ...


 Man are you serious about that? I thought ALL gas in FL. had to be E10 by the end of next year? Where did you hear that their was a provision for Marina's and off road vehicles? Thats good news if true. Hell, I'll go to the damn marina with some plastic tanks if I have to for my 17ft boat just to avoid the E10


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## InPursuit (Jun 29, 2008)

> *Chris Couture (6/9/2009)*Should there be a new area on this forum to discuss this and direct members where they can fuel their boats without Ethanol? Kind of a heads up for all members as to where to stop? Suggestions?




Iam with you Chris,put up section to keep everybody informed...Its going to get worse before it gets better...


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks InPursuit, great Info. I know the marine fuel is more expensive, but this gives me a reason not to feel bad that I don't have a trailer.

Chris, I agree, at least for the forseable future it would be a great topic area.


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## outbrdwrench (Apr 8, 2009)

You are correct! most engines out there, especially the newer one like like your 07 F250 can operate on E-10. So the focus needs to be on how to control it's ill effects & Techniques on how to control it's deterioration, instead of how to avoid it! Becausewe all know it will be everywhere soon! I am totally convinced the rapid deteriation of the fuel in the F250 I spoke of, was via the clear bowl letting UV contact the fuel in that filter, which was pumped into the fuel system as the owner tried to crank the motor. We already know we should store this fuel in as dark & cool space as possible. so you guys with portable tanks, don't leave them in the sun, put them in the shed when not in use. we already know not to keep larger boats topped off to control condensation, lets just check our water sep. fuel filters way more frequently & get our fuel on the way to the ramp( try to get just enough for that trip ), etc. I work on alot of boats , I will cont. to pass on what I learn about E-10 guys!


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## bamachem (Oct 2, 2007)

I filled up the boat w/ 16-gallons of E-10 on top of the 15 of MBTE already in the tank last week (didn't notice the sticker on the pump until it was too late - that station just changed over), let it sit for 4 days, then used it while on vacation. The first couple trips in it were OK, but the Yam 115 got harder and harder to crank as the week went by. By Friday - a week after the fill-up, I went night fishing and after idling thru about a 3/4 mile no-wake zone I shut off the engine to use the trolling motor. It wouldn't fire back up. Ended up having to use the MinnKota to get back home - an hour and 45-min ride. Fun stuff at 3am. Next day, it fired up fine on the first try and ran OK. Went back thru that no-wake and idled a while before shutting off at the beach to swim. It barely cranked to get us back home. It's turning over great, but not wanting to idle at all after a long time at low-RPM's. Next day, it took forever to get it to crank to get it to the ramp and on the trailer. Brought it home, cleaned the boat, pulled the plugs and they're black, but not too bad. Fuel in the filter looks OK, but now the damn thing won't fire off and idle at all. I'm out to change the plugs, add some fuel stabilizer and fresh gas, change the fuel filter, flush out the fuel lines and hopefully get this thing back to the dependable shape that I'm used to.

I'm beginning to suspect that I have fallen victim to E-10. It's just too much to be a coincidence for the first time to use E-10 in it also happening to be the first time this motor has EVER let me down.


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## fred (Dec 28, 2008)

Just want to second the idea of having a section on ethanol/ethanol-free fuel. 30 miles out in the GoM is no place to break down.


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## Daydreamin (Jun 20, 2008)

I topped off my tank last October with (up to)10% ethanol because gas dropped down to 3.00/gal. I was thinking it would go back up and thinking I could avoid the whole condensation in the tank problem. Prices at 4.00/gal in a boat with a 300 gal tank and seeing gas at 3/gal made me feel like I won the lotto. I didn't expect it would be May before I got the boat back in the water. About April I started reading about the e-10 issues in boats and people saying stuff like "starts seperating after 3 weeks"...OK great...how much to pump out 300 gallons of bad gas? Had to take the boat in to have some minor work done so I asked them to check the water/fuel seperators. Everything checked out and I didn't want to waste 900.00 worth of gas which might have been a bad decision (pay me now or pay me later?). I used the boat for some inshore trips running back and forth from Orange Beach to Pensacola, OB to Destin and ran out about 260-270 gals before adding fresh fuel without any problems that were obvious. Based on the info I have so far I guess I could have corrosion issues but I am hoping that my 2007 f250's are designed for e10 and won't have problems that show up later this year...like at the Ram Powell! If my 8 month old fuel had seperated I assume I would have had or heard engine issues like mis-firing or seen something other than clean fuel in the water seperators?


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## outbrdwrench (Apr 8, 2009)

Had one today, cust. swore up & down his 04F115 suzuki had fallen victim to E-10. would idle ok ( not stellar) but would miss & hesitate on top end . Took fuel sample Looked ok, compression & fire-ok. changed low pressure filter, hooked up my high pressure measuring device, took a high preesure filter & a portable tank of E-10(regular) & headed for the water. took off & my gauge wentfrom 34 to 10 psi as soon as I opened her up. idled right back to trailer & changed the the high press. filter & hooked up my E-10 tank. It ran perfectly for about 30 minutes, switched back to his tank & it ran perfectly all the way back from the pass!!! Got back to the shop & cut the metal casing to open up the filter. yep it was funky & had never been changed, lots of hrs. on her. Asked cust if he was sure he had put E-10 in his tank, he couldn't remember a little sticker, I'm pretty sure it was MTBE ! His troubleshoot was based on the hype! No doubt we need to learn how to deal with this far shittier fuel. But today I proved that we need to learn how to better preserve the new fuel Instead of how to avoid it!!! Because it's coming & I'm pretty sure we can't convince EPA to stop it. outbrdwrench.


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## sosmarine (Sep 28, 2007)

I just talked to the Manager of the Citgo Terminal in Niceville. He said they do add ethanol to thier gas to the ratio of approx. 9.6%. The Niceville Terminal services Okaloosa and Walton County. The Citgo/Tom Thumb Stations in Santa Rosa and Escambia counties are service from the Pensacola terminal and they DO NOT add ethanol. He also told me that it is a state law that the pumps have to be labeled if they are pumping Ethanol. I had prviously been told that Florida did not require the sticker.

Wal Mart/Murphy Oil is pumping Ethanol so avoid buying gas for your boat there.


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## SHatten (Sep 30, 2007)

First off a BIG THANK YOU:bowdown to Chris for putting this topic in a section of it's own. :clap. This is something we all need to be thinking of. We pay a lot of money for our "toys" and we all need to know how to protect our investment. Being able to lookin one place for information about ethanol is a big help. To everyone else who has replied to my question a thank you as well :clap for the informative answers and helpful suggestions in dealing with the ethanol issues. I will continue with my practice of keeping a full tank and usingSta-bil along with changing my water/fuel filter more frequently. (thanks markw7312 for the advice on that note). Seems like that is the best I can do for now. Thanks again for to all for the replies and not derailing the post. :clap


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## gulfcoastsurf1 (May 2, 2009)

at walmart i bought a special new type of stabil that is made just for ethanol gasit was 20 dollars is will treat up to 320 gallons of gas which is not that much when you factor in having to have a carburetor clean or other ethanol problems, seems like it work pretty good the ethanol already got me this springwith water inthe gas so decided i would give the stabil a try and not a problem since


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## outbrdwrench (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm hearing more examples of peoplelooking & finding ways to deal with this E-10 fuel . The sta-bil made for ethanol is interesting, lets find out if it works-pass it along! We already know that our motors will work on this fuel if it is fresh. Hmmmm, that means that we must continue to search for ways to control it's ill effects, change our storage & purchasing habits,Rememberwhen they took lead out of our fuels, some of us thought it was the end of the internal combustion motor, it wasn't! we adapted & designed motors a little differently. Just likethe scientists who already developed this new sta-bil, you can bet there are countless other investors & companies aleady developing new additives to help keep this fuel fresher longer, because there's big bucks in it!!!Also the engine manufacturers are busy devloping fuel systems(hoses,parts,etc.) more ethanol resistant. Hang in there guys, thiswill all be be a non-issue within a couple of years max. until then all we can do is change our habits when it comes to storing fuel. outbrdwrench.


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## DAWGONIT (Jan 16, 2009)

I moved back here from VA. Beach last spring w/ the Big Girl. The E10 killed the GENSET (ate the floatin the carb bowl& clogged the very fine hair-like passages w/ the water globules)up there as it was not plumbed through a fuel-water separator~go figure.

So I added a 10 micron separator to the new one for the GENSET, as well as each motor too. From what the mechs showed me, when the E10 goes through the water separation phase (~21 days or so) it becomes hydroscopic and falls to the bottom of your tanks(s) where the pickups are and starts upstream since its heavier than fuuel.Additionally, it will eat certain rubber, plastics, and composite materials in your fuel system if left "too" long and not run regularly.

I regularly used the Statron brand for E10; believe it was $15 for the bottle that treated ~300 gals or so. Have used the regular Stabil here, & am interested in the previous posts about Stabil for E10. I also now change the fuel-water separators every 50 hours...cheap insurance.

Lastly, I've been trying to buy enough for a few days outings using the 1/3 out, 1/3 back, 1/3 reserve rule. Of course not keeping the tanks full (350 gal) to prevent condensation is also problematic as fuel prices continue to rise & I'm one that doesn't have a tractor trailer to go to Wally World to fill up.

See you on the water .

Evan.


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## fighterpilot (Oct 3, 2007)

Citgo/Thumb Thumb here in Milton told me Ethanol is coming. Standby.


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## DEEPSIX (Mar 4, 2009)

i use to look for the cheep gas , i think there was a sticker on the pump that said 10%

i have a yr 2000 merc 200 outboard , my fuel tank is closed in out of the sun and i use seafoam additive and i have a water seperator in the fuel line should I worry? I work offshoe 28 on 28 off so every other month the boat sits i do run it alot when home... every chance I get 2nd yr owned the boat


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## outbrdwrench (Apr 8, 2009)

Only time will tell!! Keep monotoring this sub forum for new chemicals, as they come to the market. There is already a sta-bil especially for ethanol. Run that Merc as much as possible, even if it's only on the hose & store the whole boatout of the direct sunlight if possible. Other tips will be in the future, but don't worry yourself sick about it. IT is what it is! outbrdwrench.


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## John Becker (May 2, 2009)

I still don't get why e10 is such a big deal. Just replace the rubber in your fuel system.



Even if you can't do it yourself, it's not a huge expense.



Why all the hype?


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## courantpublisher (Jan 13, 2009)

I use the Stabil for E-10 and have also found that Johnson/Evinrude has a good product. They are both $20 for a 320 gallon treat. The former should be mixed to exact measure, according to my "wrench" or it can cause other problems. I think both products are good. I have a 130 Honda and had the setting fuel problem not long ago. It was easily fixed by replacing the fuel seperator, so guys, spend $8 to $15 to prevent the problem. It takes about one minute to replace on most boats, versus having your boat in the shop for several days.



I am not the most maintenance prone individual, but now I will take the time to keep my fuel system as clean as possible.


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## DAWGONIT (Jan 16, 2009)

Changed my fuel/water separators yesterday after 55 hours & 541 gals burned; No contamaints whatsoever visible to my naked eyes.

Found the 10 micron Sierras for Yamaha F225s on the Internet for a decent price & ordered 3 sets last Saturday & were on the doorstep by Thurs.

Evan.


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## Snelly (Oct 3, 2007)

> *markw4321 (6/8/2009)*<DIV class=tf_search_item_title>other than avoiding the purchase of ethanol, ifI might, recommend adding an inline10 micron Racor or similar Fuel water seperatorwith a clear see through bowl at the bottom. </DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>I did this a few months ago and though it won't prevent all ethanol problems,I am hopeful that at least if I am getting water in the fuel or other substance froman ethanol induced breakdown of the boat's fuel system between the fuel tank and the engine, thatI will beable toseethe bad fuel in the bowl and at least attemptto prevent it from making it into the engine. The see through bowl allows you to drain water without removing the filter.</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>Don't know of any solution to prevent breakdown of engine fuel line components etc due to ethanol after fuel has passed through the filters and enters the engine...</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title></DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>Here is a picture of a racrofilter with clear bowl and drain at the bottom of the bowl.</DIV><DIV class=tf_search_item_title>
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This might seem a stupid question, but how do I choose which filter size I need :doh.

I've got two Suzuki DT-115 motors. Racro filters come in sizes up to 90 GPH.



Any clues?


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm using the additive from the Evenrude dealer, Will's. It's expensive but what are you going to do. You only add one ounce to everyfour gal. 

Only thing is everything something else is messed up on my motor, can't win for losing.


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## Shiznik (Feb 24, 2008)

I always try to not let the fuel tank sit with fuel in it for a long time.


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## Bubba Squid (Feb 22, 2008)

Here's how I solved the prob. Bought a 500 gallon above ground tank, got the appropriate stickers on it, called the fuel company and had them deliver me ethanol free gas. Besides its cheaper to buy in bulk. I fill my other tank once a week for my wreckers so I can have this one topped off once a week too. If any of you guys want some, I will sell it to you close to my cost. Just message me.

Michael


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