# Center Console vs Diesel Express?



## Magic236 (Oct 1, 2007)

We are beginning to think about the next boat.If the economy does not blow up we are talking about 2010 not immediately. My question is $120K for a new fully rigged 28' Center Console or $120K for an older Twin Diesel Express? We are leaning toward the CC but would appreciate what others may be able to add to the decision process.


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## 38bat (Nov 23, 2007)

I have owned dozens of boats, mostly outboards or gas inboards. I have owned two diesel boats. All the outboards have had problems one way or the other as do the gas inboards. The gassers last around 1,000 hours reliably and will occasionally make it to 1500-2000. The diesels have been great. I would definately go diesel given the choice. I have a 20k pound 38' twin diesel currently, naturally aspirated 175hp. I can run on one engine at around 8knots and get better than 4 mpg or run at 17 knots at 1mpg. Pretty good economy. Mine have around 2k hours currently and other than standard maintenance I have had absolutely no issues. My last boat had over 6,000 hours without a problem on twin diesels and 10k is very common. I do not know of any outboards that will give you that life. I would buy the diesels if you can afford it. JOE


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## MR.STAAL (Oct 22, 2007)

EXPRESS!!!!!!!


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## BlackFlag (Oct 23, 2007)

It depends on what your after. CC's have their advantages such as speed, fuel consumption, and lower maitnence. Disadvantages, crapping in a bucket, you can't get out of the elements, having to deal with a narrow beam. Diesel's also have big advantages and disadvantages. One being speed, maintenence cost's and fuel. BUt the comfort level is way more. Plus i would prefer to fish out of twin diesel's anyday over a center console. The reason that other guy's diesel's have such low maintenence is because he had naturally aspirated engines. If you are buying a twin diesel nowadays there is a 90% chance you are getting one with turbo's on it. Unless the boat you are looking at has like cummin's 903's in it with are older than the ark but are freakin tanks, or detroit 682's or 892's. My input get the diesel


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

Diesels. Hands down walking away. A/C, a head, a rack, smoother ride usually, clean transom, storage, a fighting chair, I could go on and on. Consistantly, diesels raise more bills. Range plays in too. Keeping the engines at a lesiurely 8 knot cruise easing out overnight and only burning 45 or so gallons and being 80 miles outat daylighthas it's perks.


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## hebegb (Oct 6, 2007)

Wade...you speak to my dreams


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## Magic236 (Oct 1, 2007)

Our concern in buying say a 5-10YR old boat w/ diesels is always having something that needs to be repaired. I don't like playing mechanic and I don't like down time. How much maitenance goes into to keeping an older diesel going. I'm all over preventive maintenance. One buddy of mine said once a diesel hits about7 yrs old,it's 1 day of fishing and 2 days of fixing. That ratio makes me wonder and I can not spring for a new express.


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

There will be alot of maintenance.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

> Our concern in buying say a 5-10YR old boat w/ diesels is always having something that needs to be repaired.




HaHa How many new boats have you bought.



Read my signature.


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## Boardfeet (Sep 27, 2007)

SHOP!!!!!

I got my boat for about 100 K. had 200 hours on new cummins diesels... hands down the best decision I have ever made.










I've got A/C a head, a stand up shower W/ 60 gal. of water. A/C, room to sleep four people. microwave convection oven, refrigerator........need I say more...no c/c can have those amenaties....just don't have the speed..however I can cruise at 24 kts and I have 315 gals. of diesel and can fish the rigs easily or spend the wekend at Ft. McRae in comfort.....did I say A/C?????

Also Diesels RAISE fish!!!! especially Billfish!!!!










It's kinda like our second home now....We LOVE her!!!!

DO NOT GET AN EXPRESS!!!!

Get a convertable.....the salon is a huge plus.... your family will love it!!! Still have a big fishing cockpit..... Look carefully before you spend your $$$$$$$$


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## Magic236 (Oct 1, 2007)

X-Shark. I've bought 3 new boats and been pleased with all. I've bought a few used boats and only one was a bad buy.

Celtic, good points I used to fish a 33' Bertram in the late '80's and loved the boat. Thx for good points.


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## Boardfeet (Sep 27, 2007)

It took me about a year to find this boat. It had fresh engines...196 Hrs. they are out there ...have patients and search. An Express has very little room for family....only a V-berth. A small convertible like ours has lots of room, for fishing and for living!!!


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## matttheboatman (Aug 25, 2008)

Hello Jim:

You ask a good question. My current boat is a 2008 32' Regulator outboard. My last boat was a 2003 33' Proline diesel inboard. They both have pros and cons. The Proline had super-efficient Yanmar diesels and would cruise at about 23 knots burning somethingaround 18 - 20 gal per hour and practically nothing at trolling speeds. This was the good. The Regulator burns about 30 gal per hour but cruises at 30 knots. I miss the extra efficiency of the Proline but I don't miss the rough ride. With or without a cabin doesn't matter much to me, but it may matter to your wife. 

I think effeciency will become the most important feature of boats in the future.My recommendation: find agood boat that runs well on the 250hp(max) outboard you will have atrouble-free, fuel efficient package. And, when the time is right to go to a diesel inboard, go newerandbuya boat that has the original 5 year engine warranty still intact. 

Matt


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## Rastaman (Oct 5, 2007)

Im going to have to go against the crowd here and vote for the big CC. Low or no maintenance, speed and fuel economy. you can overnight, fish the rigs orjust run out and catch some snapper. takea hard look at your fishing pattern, unless you spend most of the time trolling, buy the CC. Also, buy twin engines. Just my .02 cents.


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Magic236 (8/24/2008)*Our concern in buying say a 5-10YR old boat w/ diesels is always having something that needs to be repaired. I don't like playing mechanic and I don't like down time. How much maitenance goes into to keeping an older diesel going. I'm all over preventive maintenance. One buddy of mine said once a diesel hits about7 yrs old,it's 1 day of fishing and 2 days of fixing. That ratio makes me wonder and I can not spring for a new express.




I have a 1984 Bertram with 2 Cat diesels. I burn 20 gallons per hour at 18kts and have all the comforts of home. In 4 years, I've replaced a genset and done 10k worth of repairs/maintenance. I really enjoy going down to work on the boat and having an air conditioned engine room with a refrigerator full of beer, stereo and tv to keep me company. The safety and reliability of a Bertram and diesels is greater than you'll ever achieve in any CC boat and the long term resale value is superior.



Unless you want speed and are willing to pay for it, then diesels are the deal. I will personally never own another gas boat that doesn't fit on a trailer with a disposable outboard. But, if you're one who needs a CC or has to have some speed, consider a 34 SeaVee with twin diesels. You should be able to buy a 5 yr old boat with a tower and genset with cuddy cabin CC for 120=150k and have amazing range, efficiency and decent speed.


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## xl883lo (Oct 24, 2007)

> *Magic236 (8/24/2008)*We are beginning to think about the next boat.If the economy does not blow up we are talking about 2010 not immediately. My question is $120K for a new fully rigged 28' Center Console or $120K for an older Twin Diesel Express? We are leaning toward the CC but would appreciate what others may be able to add to the decision process.


Look at a Carolina Classic 28'. For 120k you should be able to find a Diesel powered one with 500 hrs or less that is not more than about 4-7 years old. If you bumped your price up to about 150K you could probably find one that is 2 or 3 years old and the 2005 and newer ones have a redesigned engine room that is a little bigger and has a much larger hatch. Depending on your exact setup the should get about a 26-28 Knot cruise at 18-20gph.

These boats are tanks(no BS fishing machines)....have great factory support......can handle slop as well as anything it's size.......the only downside is they roll a little more than most on the drift.

http://www.carolinaclassicboats.com/

http://www.carolinaclassicboatowners.com/forums/


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## brnbser (Oct 1, 2007)

consider what you want it to do to make your final decision.......

do you billfish, overnighters w/ the family, weekend rig trips or is all your fishing day trips, family doesn't go out with you, etc

I fish both larger cc's/express

as for the maintenance.....I've got a 24 yr old express that runs great with minimal maintenance and zero downtime in the past yr and a half but it took me a yr of work to get it to that point. The previous owner only put about 20 hrs on the boat in 5 yrs and it took some doing to get it back up to speed but it's got 2100 orig hrs on twin Detroits that sip fuel


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## Danno (Oct 17, 2007)

Your comparing apples to oranges. Two totally different applications, you have to determine what you are going to use it for when your ready to trade.

As for myself, we moved from a CC to a walk-around cuddy over a year ago. We wanted a dryer ride, as well as boat that would handle rougher water. It was a great decision, we lost some room for fishing but gained dry space and storage.

Our next move (if any) I hope to move up to a trawler style boat, we leaning toward a Mainship. My concern is the price of diesel fuel vs gas.


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## BIG O (Mar 24, 2008)

You can get the best of both, I have a 31 Fish around 5 kw gen Set

A/C Microwave fridge tv, 4 strokes, no dockage, low maintance. 35 mph cruising, @ 1.4 mpg if I need to get up and go WOT 45 @ 1.

If and when I move up would look hard at the 36 Fisharound. My 2 cents.


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## 401 Cay (Sep 30, 2007)

> *38bat (8/24/2008)*I have owned dozens of boats, mostly outboards or gas inboards. I have owned two diesel boats. All the outboards have had problems one way or the other as do the gas inboards. The gassers last around 1,000 hours reliably and will occasionally make it to 1500-2000. The diesels have been great. I would definately go diesel given the choice. I have a 20k pound 38' twin diesel currently, naturally aspirated 175hp. I can run on one engine at around 8knots and get better than 4 mpg or run at 17 knots at 1mpg. Pretty good economy. Mine have around 2k hours currently and other than standard maintenance I have had absolutely no issues. My last boat had over 6,000 hours without a problem on twin diesels and 10k is very common. I do not know of any outboards that will give you that life. I would buy the diesels if you can afford it. JOE


I would venture to guess you are speaking about 2 stroke outboards.. Four strokes are suproassing 5k hours on the coastguard/marine patrol boats and I have personally put over 2000 hrs on 4 strokes (yamaha)with ZERO FAILIURES. I definately disagree with your assessment of outboard reliability in terms of the new 4 strokes.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

what kind of fishing do you do?


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## Magic236 (Oct 1, 2007)

We almost troll exclusive. Day trip offshore is the main purpose.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Magic236 (8/25/2008)*We almost troll exclusive. Day trip offshore is the main purpose.


diesel


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## 38bat (Nov 23, 2007)

> *401 Cay (8/25/2008)*
> 
> 
> > *38bat (8/24/2008)*I have owned dozens of boats, mostly outboards or gas inboards. I have owned two diesel boats. All the outboards have had problems one way or the other as do the gas inboards. The gassers last around 1,000 hours reliably and will occasionally make it to 1500-2000. The diesels have been great. I would definately go diesel given the choice. I have a 20k pound 38' twin diesel currently, naturally aspirated 175hp. I can run on one engine at around 8knots and get better than 4 mpg or run at 17 knots at 1mpg. Pretty good economy. Mine have around 2k hours currently and other than standard maintenance I have had absolutely no issues. My last boat had over 6,000 hours without a problem on twin diesels and 10k is very common. I do not know of any outboards that will give you that life. I would buy the diesels if you can afford it. JOE
> ...






I think we will agree to disagree on this one. Many diesels go 50-100k hours so anything is possible. I am sure a four stroke can reach 5k but I personally would not consider an outboard reliable after 5k hours(Maybe I am way off but I don't think so) 2k hours possibly, maybe Kenny or somebody can chime in with average numbers at rebuild? I would be really surprised if the average hour meter at rebuild was over 2,000 though I may be surprised. Another thing to consider is that an outboard with 2,000 hours has a value of close to zero. That will be considered by the market to be run out regardless of the compression, etc.. A diesel with 2,000 hours is considered broken in assuming proper maintenence. Maintenance is key with diesels and will cost more than a big outboard. That should be made back in resale however and one diesel should be good for the hours of several outboards. For what it's worth outboards definately have their place and I think the new two strokes are every bit as good as the four strokes. Another thing that has been mentioned is what you want to do. A center console is great for running out with your buddies for a day trip but a diesel express opens it up for weekending, taking the women out etc. I have come to appreciate having a galley, head, a/c etc. I also enjoy going down to the boat and messing about. Many times I never leave the marina. In my experience, I would take the diesels all day for a bigger boat but your results may vary!


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

> *BIG O (8/25/2008)*You can get the best of both, I have a 31 Fish around 5 kw gen Set
> 
> A/C Microwave fridge tv, 4 strokes, no dockage, low maintance. 35 mph cruising, @ 1.4 mpg if I need to get up and go WOT 45 @ 1.
> 
> If and when I move up would look hard at the 36 Fisharound. My 2 cents.




That'sgood except for one thing...it still has outboards. (Dirty wake) Straight drives, i.e. through hull shafts and props have a much cleaner propwash. Far better for trolling.


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## wrightackle (Oct 29, 2007)

I have to vote center console. The new four strokes take very well to trolling. Two stokes and trolling definitely don't go together. Center consoles are flat out more fun to fish out of. For the money you are going to spend you can get a pretty tricked out one with one 350 four stroke or twin 200's. The console will more than likely have a head, get a couple of easy rider beanbags for comfort on longer runs and you are good to go. If you ever want to try bottom fishing it is infinitely better for anchoring up.


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## off route II (Sep 28, 2007)

another key question here is what is your budget or how much are you willing to spend?


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## BIG O (Mar 24, 2008)

Downtime: This boat as well as a few other have raised many a bill

fish, I think that it has more to do with prop wash than anything else when I changed to run 19s, my performance of raising bills dropped to nothing, reworked my 21 and back on track. Please do not get me wrong, express as well as sport fish are great setups and a big salon is always a plus. I looked at what suited me, and my girls. I can overnight with a/c sleep 2 people for overnight to Ram or Petr. OR we can spend the day at anchor mixing margaritas on the hook. I added an extension canvas that slides out and covers the entire aft end of my deck, no its not a/c as a salon but it will keep you out of the sun. Girls have a full size head with shower so they are happy as well. I agree with you as well as its a ball to go piddle around the boat at the marina,but it sure is nice come hurrican season to not have to move them up to the rivers or pay someone to do. All I do is put her on the trailer and take her to my warehouse.

Big O


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

Big O, you hit the nail on the head. You got to go with what suits your total needs the best. My personal preference is inboards. I like not having to dodge anything hanging off the back of the boat. But there again, we mainly billfish. I don't particulary like wiring around motors.


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## slanddeerhunter (Jun 11, 2008)

last year at boat show they had an albin 28 center console with a single 370 yanmar,if you wanted more motor you could go up to a 6c 450 hp cummins!!!! with this you could have best of both worlds.:clap:clap:clap


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## 38bat (Nov 23, 2007)

The Albins are sweet!


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## ishmel407 (May 7, 2008)

I have a good friend of mine that is getting out of the charter fishing buisness and he has two boats that he is tring ot get rid of. The first is a 70 or 80's 38 or 40 ft Chris Craft. Has one blown engine but you could fix this forrelativly cheap. Sleeps 4, has a stand up shower, 100 gallon tank I believe. He is only asking in the 20,000s I believe. He bought a second boat a few years back and thought the chris craft would be his second boat one day and then the charter industry went to hell. The boat is from Dauphin Island and its name is the Dorado. Needs some loving but for the price he is asking you could put alot of money into it and it would be a brand new boat and you wouls till be spending less than on the other types.The other boat he has is a 40 to 50 ft striker. It is a aluminum hull and sleeps a few more people. Not sure the specifics about the boat but it is a nice boat. He is asking 60 something for it. If you are interested just pm me and I will give you his number.


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