# AR - Why build?



## Outside9

I classify myself as a hunter vs being a shooter, and definitely not a _*blackgun* _guy. However, I do own an AR and thinking about picking up another one.

I see a lot of talk about building one vs buying one. My question is why build when the prices seem so good right now?

I know some will say they can build better for less. Can your really build cheaper and better at these prices?


$1097 at Walmart – *Colt 6920*
Walmart in Niceville has this *Windham* one for under 800.00
http://www.windhamweaponry.com/images/rifles/SRC-L.jpg
http://www.windhamweaponry.com/
Bushmaster – starting at $699.00
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60
*DPMS AR 15 UNDER $600 *


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## FrankwT

Building you get better quality for less/same money
Building you get what you want, you are gonna change it anyway
Building you can do for less
Building you get the barrel, twist and weight you want
Building you get the satisfaction of the finished product more than just buying one
Building you know more what you are doing to make changes, tearing down to clean

The price you see at the store includes the price of the build, the inflated parts cost and TAX

I can help anyone with sites and parts to order if you are not sure. People like Dixie can order your parts for you and put the gun together with or without you there to learn. Good luck!


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## Outside9

I hear what you are saying. However, for example;
I have the Bushmast XM15-E2S, 223-5.56mm, it does everything I want it to do. I'm sure I could go buy one of Walmarts $600.00 guns and it would also do the same thing.

All I care about is it shoots straight, does not jam etc.

Other than having the satisfaction, what can the average guy build a rifle for?

Keep in mind I'm not being a smart @ss, just curious.







FrankwT said:


> Building you get better quality for less/same money
> Building you get what you want, you are gonna change it anyway
> Building you can do for less
> Building you get the barrel, twist and weight you want
> Building you get the satisfaction of the finished product more than just buying one
> Building you know more what you are doing to make changes, tearing down to clean
> 
> The price you see at the store includes the price of the build, the inflated parts cost and TAX
> 
> I can help anyone with sites and parts to order if you are not sure. People like Dixie can order your parts for you and put the gun together with or without you there to learn. Good luck!


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## FrankwT

Well a .223 about $500 for a basic gun with a much better barrel, dust cover and forward assist. For cheap plinking ammo and a better hunter than the .223 consider the 7.62x39 $6-700. A better hunting caliber like the 6.8 would be $600-800 but the savings would still be there from an already built one. When I am building one for ME the cost is more, but then I know what I want/need for a particular use.

For shooting rocks and paper, you will still improve your accuracy with a built weapon, if that does not matter to you then it probably does not matter. Built right the re-sale will be higher than the walmart gun.

These are *my *opinions only not to be substituted for yours or to cause an argument.


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## Outside9

500.00, now you are talking my talk. A decent, good hunting gun at a cheaper price.


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## FrankwT

I would not call a 223 a hunting gun, it is better with more expensive ammo, but not my cup of tea. I know, I know people kill animals and people with it, a 22 or a pellet gun will kill...LOL Just not my preference as a hunting round, a SHTF semi auto with cheap ammo for home defense or plinking, yotes, ***** and such is is a good caliber.

AGAIN: These are *my *opinions only not to be substituted for yours or to cause an argument.


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## Outside9

I coyote hunt with mine. Deer hunt with one of my other guns.


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## FrankwT

It is a good yote and varmint round, I have sold all the ones I had and built for me. I would like a 7.62x39 or a .308 AR, but money is always a factor!


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## Outside9

Yea I want a 308 with a long barrel, maybe 20"


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## FrankwT

In an AR? My limit is the 18" and they are getting some great lightweight builds now, as light as 8lb w/o the optics. I would love one but don't need it as I run a 6.8 now which is 70% of a 308 and for FL with our small animals it is fine.

Now in TX where you can use suppressors for all game animals now I would be all over a sub-sonic build of some kind maybe even the 300BO!


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## Outside9

Yea, I want a 308 AR for hunting. Optic ready, I deer hunt with a 300wsm now.


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## FrankwT

That 300wsm is an excellent round!


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## Outside9

What do you think I could build a 308 AR, with 18-20" barrel for? Optic ready.


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## FrankwT

$400 for the lower and around $600-700 for the upper, could come in less but I want the particular barrel listed below.
This is the barrel I would get: AR Performance http://www.ar15performance.com/308_barrel
18" 308 Barrel 
Price: $220.00 






















18" lightweight, mid gas, 4150 CMV melonite treated, 10 twist 5/8-24 muzzle thread--Black 2lbs -0.4 oz
A 7.5lb 308 is possible by using a carbon ff tube, DPMS lightweight receiver and MOE stock. Maybe less if we make a lightweight carrier.
If you are tired of lugging a heavy 308 around through the woods this barrel is the solution, 18" to keep the velocity up
threaded muzzle if you want to use a muzzle device to tame the recoil and muzzle rise.
May also be a good choice for those shooting "heavy metal" division 3 gun.


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## Outside9

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/autoloading-model-r-25.aspx

http://www.dpmsinc.com/308-RECON_ep_93-1.html

I know these do not have the forward assist or dust cover, but these are the ones I have been looking at. Never used my forward assist on my Bushmaster.


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## FrankwT

Well you can do it alot cheaper than $1500 I am telling you that now...LOL Did not see the price on the remington.


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## Outside9

this one below is a 7mm 08 but if I'm not mistaken Walmart was carrying the 308 in this for around $1,100 last year.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...5+7mm-08+20"+Fluted,+Mossy+Oak+Treestand+Camo


http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...mi-Automatic+308+Winchester+10+1+Capacity+24"

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...mi-Automatic+308+Winchester+10+1+Capacity+24"


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## FrankwT

Yeah that is better, I think i can build mine w the barrel I want for under $1000 and the 18" barrel is optimized w the twist for the 308 from ARP. I am OK now w the 6.8 so am going to stick w that for now.


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## Bottlerocket

308 ARs are not as easy to build as a normal AR15. There are lots of cross-compatibility issues with the 30 cal guns as far as what brands play nice with others.

IMHO: AR15 pattern rifles - Build em
308 caliber AR style rifles - Buy em

Even if you understood the discrepancies between brands of 308 ARs, its tough to build one on the cheap like it is an AR15. You can look real hard and find an AR15 lower for ~$70, but the 308 version is easily 3 times that. A receiver group can typically go for $350-400 for cheapo ones when an AR15 group is maybe $170. If you really wanna stay cheap (i.e. build your own AR15 platform) and have something that can shoot at distance and still hit hard look into either 6.8 SPC II or 6.5 Grendel. Both are excellent rounds. The 6.8 will be cheaper to shoot and good at range. The Grendel will be more expensive but in a longer barrel you can easily take it past 800 yards. Both of these calibers will only require a different barrel and bolt (and preferably magazines) from a standard 223 AR15.


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## fisheye48

here is my take on it...why build one and put all the high speed stuff on it to go shoot some cans and paper, and occasionally an animal....if you maintain a box gun(factory built) and shoot good ammo you wont have any problems. Im willing to bet you can get a factory mass produced AR to shoot just as well as one that is custom built!!! Hell at work i shoot a wore out M4 that has who knows how many rds through it and all we get is reloads and i have never had it jam on me....i make sure its spotless inside and out and take care of my mags....


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## The Pitt

Bottlerocket said:


> 308 ARs are not as easy to build as a normal AR15. There are lots of cross-compatibility issues with the 30 cal guns as far as what brands play nice with others.
> 
> IMHO: AR15 pattern rifles - Build em
> 308 caliber AR style rifles - Buy em
> 
> Even if you understood the discrepancies between brands of 308 ARs, its tough to build one on the cheap like it is an AR15. You can look real hard and find an AR15 lower for ~$70, but the 308 version is easily 3 times that. A receiver group can typically go for $350-400 for cheapo ones when an AR15 group is maybe $170. If you really wanna stay cheap (i.e. build your own AR15 platform) and have something that can shoot at distance and still hit hard look into either 6.8 SPC II or 6.5 Grendel. Both are excellent rounds. The 6.8 will be cheaper to shoot and good at range. The Grendel will be more expensive but in a longer barrel you can easily take it past 800 yards. Both of these calibers will only require a different barrel and bolt (and preferably magazines) from a standard 223 AR15.


i agree

if youre gonna keep it within a couple hundred yards i would also take a look at 300blk. ammo is cheaper then 6.8 and 6.5 and only requires a barrel. bolt and mags are the same.


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## Telum Pisces

I purchased a DPMS Oracle LR-308 from Buds last year for $950 to my door when they had them in stock. I went back and forth on what to do for a hunting AR platform and I realized that for this price, I couldn't go wrong. I did not need some precision shooting AR platform that could hit sub MOA at 1000 yards. Just needed to be accurate out to 300 yards or so. This DPMS goes bang and it is darn accurate. I had to find an ammo it liked though. Went through about 5 different ammo brands before I found that it likes the Federal Fusion ammo.

Some people knock the DPMS rifles. I have enjoyed mine so far in the .308 variety.


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## FrankwT

TP, nothing wrong w that at all, excellent rifle and will serve you well. What does it weight as you have it set up?


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## Telum Pisces

FrankwT said:


> TP, nothing wrong w that at all, excellent rifle and will serve you well. What does it weight as you have it set up?


Just over 9lbs empty. I don't load a full mag just becuase it's a heavy sucker fully loaded. I purchase some composite MagPul PMAGs for it and that helped with a few oz versus the steel magazines. But it's a heavy beast fully loaded. With the 4 round hunting magazine, it's not bad though.

I purchased this one because it did have a dust cover and forward assist at such a bargin price. I know you don't need those things for a decent AR. But I do like the forward assist so that I don't have to release/slam the bolt closed for hunting purposes.


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## FrankwT

Is that w optics? Not bad at all. IF I build one I will go as lightweight as possible but yours is a viable alternative.


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## Telum Pisces

FrankwT said:


> Is that w optics? Not bad at all. IF I build one I will go as lightweight as possible but yours is a viable alternative.


It is 8.3 lbs empty out of the box. Scope that I put on it weighs in at a wopping 20.9 oz. So that's roughly 9.6 lbs empty.


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## FrankwT

OK, not bad and maybe a lightweight handguard, scope/rings it could come down more. Seems they are right at #1050 now, still a good deal!


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## Telum Pisces

FrankwT said:


> OK, not bad and maybe a lightweight handguard, scope/rings it could come down more. Seems they are right at #1050 now, still a good deal!


Yeah, when I purchased mine it was $935 plus a $15 FFL transfer fee. It was a no brainer to get a decent and my first hunting AR platform.


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## Bottlerocket

The Pitt said:


> i agree
> 
> if youre gonna keep it within a couple hundred yards i would also take a look at 300blk. ammo is cheaper then 6.8 and 6.5 and only requires a barrel. bolt and mags are the same.


Absolutely 300BLK is another good choice, but if he was looking for something to take out past a few hundred yards I would go with the 6.5/6.8


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## Bottlerocket

Telum Pisces said:


> I purchased a DPMS Oracle LR-308 from Buds last year for $950 to my door when they had them in stock. I went back and forth on what to do for a hunting AR platform and I realized that for this price, I couldn't go wrong. I did not need some precision shooting AR platform that could hit sub MOA at 1000 yards. Just needed to be accurate out to 300 yards or so. This DPMS goes bang and it is darn accurate. I had to find an ammo it liked though. Went through about 5 different ammo brands before I found that it likes the Federal Fusion ammo.
> 
> Some people knock the DPMS rifles. I have enjoyed mine so far in the .308 variety.


I wouldn't suggest DPMS to anyone. You may have gotten lucky but as far as manufacturing goes at DPMS, even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while


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## pierfishallday

Dont know much about building an AR but im guessing if you did build one you would have alot more knowledge on how the system works. Which probably could be pretty valuable in the long run.


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## Gravity3694

Bottlerocket said:


> I wouldn't suggest DPMS to anyone. You may have gotten lucky but as far as manufacturing goes at DPMS, even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while


DPMS is decent if someone is looking for a commercial specification rifle. My friend has one and it will cycle anything from cheap Tula to LC M193. On the other hand many other rifles run tighter gas ports that are tuned to run higher pressure 5.56. DPMS is also one of the main manufacturers in the .308 game. Furthermore, many manufacturers use DPMS for small parts such as LPKs, many people also go to DPMS for small parts as well when building their rifles.


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## Outside9

I still say with todays prices you can buy cheaper than building, unless you want some fancy options, like a certain trigger etc.


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## Gravity3694

Outside9 said:


> I still say with todays prices you can buy cheaper than building, unless you want some fancy options, like a certain trigger etc.


That's about the only advantage I see, you get it anyway you want it when you build.

The tooling you will spend to build (assuming your going to have to assemble an upper too) is close to $40 at minimum and about $200 if you don't have a vice and torque wrench.


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## FrankwT

Upper complete $400 or less, poly lower $110, 2 pins, ammo, shoot.


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## TURTLE

Outside9 said:


> I classify myself as a hunter vs being a shooter, and definitely not a _*blackgun* _guy. However, I do own an AR and thinking about picking up another one.
> 
> I see a lot of talk about building one vs buying one. My question is why build when the prices seem so good right now?
> 
> I know some will say they can build better for less. Can your really build cheaper and better at these prices?
> 
> 
> $1097 at Walmart – *Colt 6920*
> Walmart in Niceville has this *Windham* one for under 800.00
> http://www.windhamweaponry.com/images/rifles/SRC-L.jpg
> http://www.windhamweaponry.com/
> Bushmaster – starting at $699.00
> http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60
> *DPMS AR 15 UNDER $600 *


*I just built one for less then $500 I will put up against any of those so called " Top of the line builds" :thumbsup:*


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## FrankwT

Turtle, you are singing to the choir, no tools, a complete upper and complete lower, 2 pins and shoot. $500 for a223/556 and $600 for a 6.8 both better quality than the 597 + tax walmart special


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## glassplus

Turtle come bring your 500.00 gun any time,and your Tula ammo Ill be waiting I'll finish the place an targets.any day of the week. out to 200 yds. If you need more I'll make arrangements. I build these all the time and I can't do it, so tell us your secret. who is giving you the parts. MY 50 cents jj


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## The Pitt

I've built plenty of cheap ARs. Nothing quality about a gun that cheap. The two ARs I spent the most on are the guns I've used and kept the longest. Im with glassplus, Idk how you build a gun for $500 unless its got one of those cheap plastic lowers and a bunch of used upper parts.


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## Outside9

TURTLE said:


> *I just built one for less then $500 I will put up against any of those so called " Top of the line builds" :thumbsup:*


Better yet, why don't you put up the links (cost etc.) where you bought the items to build one for less than $500.00 so others on here can do the same?


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## FrankwT

I already PM'd the info to all that are serious and PM'd me asking.


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## glassplus

*cost*

I'm serious, I spend alot of time looking and seeing what discount I can get. Put It up front for every one to know,I hate for some one to keep telling how cheap they can do something and not tell me. my 2 cents jj


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## FrankwT

JJ, sorry about that, Well try http://www.jsesurplus.com/16uppers.aspx for the uppers and www.joeboboutfitters.com for the NFA Poly lowers. ask Jason about them and watch the torture test on them. Both sites have alot of good pricing on a lot of AR parts.


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## Gravity3694

FrankwT said:


> JJ, sorry about that, Well try http://www.jsesurplus.com/16uppers.aspx for the uppers and www.joeboboutfitters.com for the NFA Poly lowers. ask Jason about them and watch the torture test on them. Both sites have alot of good pricing on a lot of AR parts.


New Frontier lowers are decent lowers. I was somewhat skeptical about them based off of what some have said, but I tried one out when I was in Alaska and was thoroughly impressed. The jury is still out on how they will do in long term use, but I think they will do well.


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## The Pitt

for less then $50 more you can have a metal lower instead of polymer. i watched the videos on the NFA lower and was impressed. i bought one of the polymer lowers for a light weight build and didnt like the gun so i sold it. i was actually surprised by the trigger in it though, i thought it was going to be bad. i might recommend one to someone building a dedicated .22 but i wouldnt trust one in the long term firing a centerfire cartridge. there are pics out there of the lowers cracking around the take down pins and the buffer tube breaking off. everybody knows the lower is the only serialized part on a gun and likely gonna be the piece you keep the longest when you start modifying. why not spend the money where it counts? thanks for the link on the JSE parts... have a few small pieces to buy.


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## Gaff

Now I am interested in building one. I have always used a Bushmaster and am impressed with it. Very sturdy and comfortable, I would like to build one exactly like that but for a better price. I would like to do some research as to what would best suit my needs. I hope to get as much advice as possible to help me decide what I really need though. Very informative thread, thanks for sharing.


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## FrankwT

I am not saying the NFA lower is the best in the world, only if you want a lighter less costly build you might consider it. You will not find a better trigger in a low cost lower even close to the NFA and even it can be changed, so there you are a $500 or under .223.


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## glassplus

Thanks for the infor.I have all ready got three poly Rec., I could not find any uppers on the other site that was available . . So i still can not build one for under about 550- 600 in parts. thanks jj


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## FrankwT

http://rguns.net/rifles/rifles-semiauto-ar15-uppers-556-16Inch-M4Profile.shtml

http://shop.ar15sport.ihoststores.com/category.aspx?categoryID=70

yes you have to shop, follow the sales and jump on what you want ASAP, never said it was easy, also check forums, JSE will be back in stock soon.


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## The Pitt

You can find some good deals on lightly used stuff on AR15.com too


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## Miami Matt

If you guys are out for best prices updated daily use the below link. Frank is 100% correct.Recently I built two AR's for under a grand. One being a 5.56 and the other is a 6.8. Like I said check below DAILY and you can easily do it.


http://www.slickguns.com/


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## TURTLE

glassplus said:


> Turtle come bring your 500.00 gun any time,and your Tula ammo Ill be waiting I'll finish the place an targets.any day of the week. out to 200 yds. If you need more I'll make arrangements. I build these all the time and I can't do it, so tell us your secret. who is giving you the parts. MY 50 cents jj


*Frontier armory lowers, ( Light weight) and wholesale arms uppers. Not a secret just good research and wholesale connections. If your not in the Military and shooting 300 rounds a day why would it not be good enough to hang in your cabinet? Seriously?? I see you guys put these things up for sale for $1000+ and I have yet to be out shot in ANY situation even training With what you call my peices of shit AR's. You may say " Oh mine has this and that barrell" or whatever makes it better in the performance area , but the bottom line is, unless you need this weapon for daily use, why spend so much money on one? If it's a longevity thing, I can get 3 of mine for the same as one of yours so what the hell for? If the zombies come, we are all gonna die in the end anyway so whats the point? An AR is an assault weapon !!! Not meant for ranges farther then 100 yards tops. If you can't hit a chest sized target at 100 yards with ANY AR you can build, you need more training. Please tell me what justifies a $1000 AR??? And Good God anyone, please feel free to do the same with an AK. I have over 10 AK's and ranging from stamped to milled and for their use who gives a shit in the end .125" diff in MAO??? Come on man.*


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## TURTLE

Outside9 said:


> Better yet, why don't you put up the links (cost etc.) where you bought the items to build one for less than $500.00 so others on here can do the same?


*Send me a PM and a good FFL transfer dealer and no problem. You can take it to ole boy aboves place and show how crappy it shoots.:thumbup: Some people have to have Prada and some know the generic can perform and feel the same. Kinda like Corvette syndrome. If you have a big [email protected]*k You can drive a Beetle and still get the chick, lol. Never had to spend the kinda money on an AR to get those results. Some people may need to. You know it's all about your likes and preference. I love the SCAR 223 but won't spend the money for one just for the looks. I do love the gun though, and would love to have the money to spend on the bad ass Ar's on here but have not found the reason yet target wise. If one shows it's worth over one of my cheapies I'll reconsider.*


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## TURTLE

The Pitt said:


> I've built plenty of cheap ARs. Nothing quality about a gun that cheap. The two ARs I spent the most on are the guns I've used and kept the longest. Im with glassplus, Idk how you build a gun for $500 unless its got one of those cheap plastic lowers and a bunch of used upper parts.


*Cheap poly lower yes, Used upper NO. Just a bit of looking and you can get any configuration you want for under $1000. All the accessories are subjust to your drive to find them. I have the benefit of having so many parts laying around it matters not for accessories. if you want a bad ass BCG and handle whatever, to each his own. My method, I adapt to the weaopn not the other way around. How would you do it in the field? Could you ask for another weapon cause yours wasn't smooth enough? Hell NO. Hit what you need to hit any way possible with what you have!!!Damn!:no:*


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## glassplus

LIke I have said before open invite come shoot, We will put it to the test, and any one else that want to come and see. We will set a day and shoot and eat, Last time every one had a good time, found out they were not as good as they throught. I'm not a arm chair cumputer shooter,I don't put it in the closet and talk about how good it is. and how cheap I build it for. I want it to hold up and work. I shoot mine. JUst my 1 cents jj


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## Gravity3694

I've always wondered why certain parts or rifles cost differently when it comes to ARs. My speculation is in the labor costs and quality control checks. For example, many manufacturers do batch testing rather than individual tests. Also, Colt's rifles are noticeably higher in cost most likely due to their UAW union labor and that they really don't care as much about the commercial market compared to the military market.

I've been pleasantly surprised by some lower cost ARs compared to some of my higher cost choices. A friend of mine has a DPMS that when I looked it over thought it was junk, however after several thousand rounds without problem, I changed my opinion. 

I would like to see Turtle's rifle tested, I think for his intended use it fits his bill perfectly. Will it hold up with a heavy round count and prolonged fire, that's a good question.


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## HisName

I wanted improved reliability over the off the shelf AR and I wanted certain options I could not find assembled.
by buying each component I created exactly what I wanted.
a Nickel Boron BCG was a must for me as I think it is the one thing that will most improve the AR and is slicker that Owl $hit without any lubrication and stays clean.
I wanted the pistol be be suppressed and have a great trigger. very happy with the build and got what I wanted.

http://www.failzero.com/testimonials.html


Black Rain Ordnance billet upper receiver with milled charging handle and tactical latch.
Black Rain nickel boron M16 BCG
Noveske 8.2" 1:7 300 BLK stainless barrel. muzzle threads 5/8x24
Noveske low profile gas block
YH Car length Diamond free float quad rail
RRA NM Trigger


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## bfisher1970

I assume that all of the people that are getting ARs based on price are also using Jimenez pistols for your carry weapon also right? 
May not last as long or feed & fire every time but you can buy 3 of those for what a Glock costs so that's the way to go right??


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## FrankwT

An AR will last as long as you want to shoot it, w less issue than alot of so called hunting rifles...IMO


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## glassplus

*cheap gun*

Find a S&W at wal-mark the Best shooting and acc. air soft for the money paid 9.95 and 5.95 for a bottle of BB's, can shoot all day, set it up on the porch used a box to catch the BB's and re-use them. Just in case I moved in to the city I wanted something to use. suppose to be 300ft. a sec. I know there are more expensive ones but it suits my purpose. just my 1 cents jj


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## HisName

glassplus said:


> Find a S&W at wal-mark the Best shooting and acc. air soft for the money paid 9.95 and 5.95 for a bottle of BB's, can shoot all day, set it up on the porch used a box to catch the BB's and re-use them. Just in case I moved in to the city I wanted something to use. suppose to be 300ft. a sec. I know there are more expensive ones but it suits my purpose. just my 1 cents jj


they are fun.
I bought one for my father in Law who used it to train the cat to stay off the couch!:thumbsup:


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## TURTLE

glassplus said:


> LIke I have said before open invite come shoot, We will put it to the test, and any one else that want to come and see. We will set a day and shoot and eat, Last time every one had a good time, found out they were not as good as they throught. I'm not a arm chair cumputer shooter,I don't put it in the closet and talk about how good it is. and how cheap I build it for. I want it to hold up and work. I shoot mine. JUst my 1 cents jj


*That actualy sounds like alot of fun. I would love to see some faces that paid $2k for an AR when my $500 build performs very close to the same. We are talking Iron Sights here, there is no other way to compare. Where are you and how long of a range do you have? I have a reach out weapon I need to sight in and noe of the ranges I have access to are more then 200 Yards?*

*And just to be clear. I am well aware that the quality in a more exspensive AR is there when it comes to life length, this thread was not really about that. If your getting one for home defense or because they look cool and your not gonna shoot it very often IMO there is no reason to have more then one real nice AR unless you just have money coming out of your ass. I have a couple high end AR's but if the shit hits the fan, my five kids will have my cheap builds, wife and I will have the BA ones. And NO I have not had problem one out of a single one of them, and they are very, very, light which is good if we gotta bug.*


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## TURTLE

HisName said:


> they are fun.
> I bought one for my father in Law who used it to train the cat to stay off the couch!:thumbsup:


*I think it's Airsplat.com online has some real nice Airsoft guns for under $250 that will destroy a beer can in seconds on full auto. Made out of metal and if you replace the stock battery with a Lipo one they almost double in power and rate of fire. Lots of fun :thumbup:*


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