# Are Whitetail Bucks Scoring Smaller in Alabama?



## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

My Father-In-Law has hunted "The Black Belt", the part of Alabama that is famed for producing the largest Whitetails in the State. He and I had a visit recently and he for years has taken a buck each year that scoredaround 130or overevery year, until about 6-7 years ago. He is of the opinion that Whitetail Bucks in Alabama are averaging smaller scores than years ago. 

He feels that years ago there was alot more rowcropagriculture being grown in the state and a very large percentage of what was once rowcrop agriculture is now Planted Pines, and the deer don't have access to the major food sources that made "The Black Belt" famous for large antler deer. 

I hunt the central part of the state, and havetaken my largest deer in thatarea,but don't have the years that my father-in-law has to compare to, but would like to know how others think. With exception to, Primetime Plantation which we all know has moremonster whitetails per acre than Milk River Montana, what do you guys think about Alabama Whitetails now vs. years ago?


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

> *With exception to, Primetime Plantation which we all know has moremonster whitetails per acre than Milk River Montana, what do you guys think about Alabama Whitetails now vs. years ago?*


*

DANG , NOW THATS FUNNY AS HELL! Pretty bad when Garbo gets on you.*


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## NICHOLAS (Oct 18, 2007)

The area we hunt near Greenville used to have huge soybean fields planted every year according to my Dad. Now it is all planted pines and cow fields. Now I can not say if the bucks are smaller, but according to him the area used to have some absolute monsters. I am sure some of you remember Butler Management and bloody 21.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

> *DoneDeal2 (11/19/2008)*
> 
> 
> > *With exception to, Primetime Plantation which we all know has moremonster whitetails per acre than Milk River Montana, what do you guys think about Alabama Whitetails now vs. years ago?*
> ...


*

I'm not on blue hoo, he just has access to bucks that I don't. Out of all the nice bucks I have seen posted that he claims he wouldn't shoot, I have to feel that the place he hunts is covered up with em. I would love to see his photo album, it must be awesome. Blue Hoo,I dowish you wouldshow us some of the beasts.

But, I ain't on him, I don't have the experience to get on him. *


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

> *NICHOLAS (11/19/2008)* I am sure some of you remember Butler Management and bloody 21.


*I have a feeling of what Bulter management is but what is Bloody 21? Explain.*


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## one big one (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Garbo (11/19/2008)*
> 
> 
> > *DoneDeal2 (11/19/2008)*
> ...


*

Quote :Sir , 50 $ a day you can shoot a doe & watch my 190's walk, we can bass fish & i weigh uh 200 lbs & can take my dad. As far as the bucks give them a couple of years & they will be shooters.:letsdrink:letsdrink

you have to pay to play.*


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

*The Alabama Record Typical is 194 6/8 P & Y, and that is P &Y not B & C which should make the score a lower net afterdeductions. *

*I don't think that 190's are walking around in herds, oreven in pairs,anywhere in the state of Alabama. McCallisters(sp)is a large acreageHigh Fencepropertyin Gordon Al. and Heprobablyhas the best herd I have everseen orheard about in Alabama, and he ain't got that kind of deer walking around.**BTW $50 won't get you through his gate, I once knew the fees but would be afraid to post them as I am not sure, but you could go wayout ofstate alot cheaper. *

*Do some of you that Hunt Alabama think the Bucks antlers are smaller than years ago? *


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## NICHOLAS (Oct 18, 2007)

According to a few guys I know who used to hunt Butler Management in its prime there would be 10-20 rack bucks capped out after every hunt. That was in the late 70's early 80's I believe. 



Bloody 21 was the nickname for hwy 21.



I was only a thought then so I can only speak from what I have been told.





As far as bucks being smaller in the entire state I can not say, however I can say that they have gotten bigger over the past 10 yrs on the land I hunt.


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## HeartofDixie (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Garbo (11/19/2008)*My Father-In-Law has hunted "The Black Belt", the part of Alabama that is famed for producing the largest Whitetails in the State. He and I had a visit recently and he for years has taken a buck each year that scoredaround 130or overevery year, until about 6-7 years ago. He is of the opinion that Whitetail Bucks in Alabama are averaging smaller scores than years ago.
> 
> He feels that years ago there was alot more rowcropagriculture being grown in the state and a very large percentage of what was once rowcrop agriculture is now Planted Pines, and the deer don't have access to the major food sources that made "The Black Belt" famous for large antler deer.
> 
> I hunt the central part of the state, and havetaken my largest deer in thatarea,but don't have the years that my father-in-law has to compare to, but would like to know how others think. With exception to, Primetime Plantation which we all know has moremonster whitetails per acre than Milk River Montana, what do you guys think about Alabama Whitetails now vs. years ago?


Well, as much as I hate to say it, you and your father-in-law are exactly right...AL's 'Black Belt' bucks have steadily decreased in size over the past 2-3 decades. Now don't get me wrong, there are some absolute monster bucks walking around in AL's 'Black Belt' right NOW...But, the number of high quality bucks has gone way down. Just so you know, my opinions and thoughts on this come from hunting AL and the 'Black Belt'my whole life. 

Back in the 60's and 70's, it was nothing to bag <U>huge</U> rack bucks each year. Nowadays, you still have a better chance than other areas of AL, but you'd be lucky to even see a monster buck much less kill one a year. 

You hit the nail on the head with your rowcrop theory, or lack there of. The 'Black Belt' with its extremely fertile soil used to be planted in soy beans and cotton...I mean lots and lots and lots of soy beans. Now, those farmlands have turned into timber land and money is made from trees, not soy beans and cotton. This means the deer have less nutrition than they used to have access to several decades ago. Less nutrients mean smaller racks and bodies. 

I hunted and worked at a lodge in the 'Black Belt back in the 90's (just south of Selma, in Sardis, AL). The lodge has pictures and mounts from the 60's and 70's and impressive is an understatement. They used tohang 2-3 monster bucks on the wall each year. They haven't put a buck on the wall since 2002. So, I've seen the unfortunate decline as well, and the lack of monsters killed at the lodge now compared to 2-3 decades ago is proof enough for me.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

*Did you work at Blackbelt Lodge in Sardis? *


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## HeartofDixie (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Garbo (11/19/2008)**Did you work at Blackbelt Lodge in Sardis? *


Nope, not there, I've been by that place once though. 

Some friends of my family used to own and run a lodge up there (Sardis). They no longer do commercial/paid hunts because there monster buck numbers kept decreasing. They just have family/friends/guest hunt there now. Still some big big big bucks around there, just not as many as it used to be.


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## one big one (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Garbo (11/19/2008)**Did you work at Blackbelt Lodge in Sardis? *


No , but I washed dishes in Orange Beach While killing 900 lb tuna, Does that count?

or were you asking me?:doh:doh


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## Voodoo Lounge (Sep 28, 2007)

Dont know squat about Black Belt bucks, but ya'll are killing me!!!


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

I agree that the conversion to pine plantations and cotton from crops like soybean has lead to smaller deer in Alabama. I've only been hunting there for the last 10 years and have noticed no change during that short period, but I have seen some HUGE deerhanging on the wallin the black belt region that were killed in decades past. One in particular was a main frame 12 point (17-18 counting stickers)that looked like it weighed 300#'s judging from the shoulder mount, which was killed in wilcox county in the early 80's. I've seen several other really big, old mounts and what always stood out as impressive was the larger body size. I've seen some bucks taken in Alabama with abig rack (150+''), but never one that approached 300#'s.


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## HeartofDixie (Oct 3, 2007)

F.Y.I.










The 'Black Belt' refers to thegeologic formationof extremely rich, fertile,and <U>*black*</U>soil that runs across the state of AL. The geologic formation runs from Maryland to Texas. This soil was historically used to grow cotton and soy beans, but anything planted in this stuff will grow strong and healthy. Very small strips of 'Black Belt' soil can also be found in Conecuh, Monroe, and Clark Counties (oh, and Autauga Co...I'm not as familar with the northern side). Due to the abundance of natural nutrients found in the soil, the shaded region above harbors most of AL's monster bucks. Hunt there if you can to better your odds of a trophy!


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

> *P-cola_Native (11/19/2008)*but never one that approached 300#'s.



+1. every year we see a few bucks top around the 200# mark (here in alabama), but not nearly like you see the ones up in the midwest/north/canada. although i process my own meat, i like to swing by the processors from time to time to see the size of the other deer in the area taken. from what i understand, our soils are not favorable for alfalfa and other high protein yielding crops. sandy soil (acidic) is prime for pines and stuff of that nature. we spend a good bit of resources each year trying to adequately lime our food plots and bring in topsoil, manure, sawdust, anything to counter the heavy sands we have at our place in central alabama. as for bucks in the last few years, you old guys would know better than me. but as for our place, which we have had since '82, the bucks taken in the last 5 years were better than the ones taken in the '90's. we used to have a hunting club which leased our land, and they had a 4pt or better rule, and they shot a whole mess of immature bucks. as my brother and i approached driving age a few years ago, the hunting club was "disbanded" (to use a polite term) and we started planting springtime plots, using mineral supplementation, and upped the minimum buck rule to 8 points with inside spread outside the ears. from 1999 to 2004, i dont think we took one buck, and then i took a great 8 just after the iron bowl that year. that kind of set events in motion, and we started seeing more bucks and greater quality bucks after that year. although we only have a little over 300 acres which is broken up over a few mile radius, the surrounding 1200 or so acres are all owned by guys in their mid to upper 60's, and they all bowhunt does and will take the occasional buck. they are just out for meat though, as they have all shot awesome deer in their lifetime.


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## Grassflatsfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

I can agree with the farming aspect and it relating to a smaller deer size. I do disagree though that the number of trophy bucks killed in AL has decreased. I get way to many emails, read quite a few articles, and personally seedeer killed in AL that score in the 150's-180 range. The biggest buck we have taken on our leases in Butler and Conecuh grossed at 158 and I personally have shotaround 10 or sobucks that scored in themid/upper 120's to mid 130's over the last 10 or so years. With so much quality deer management information on tv, magazines, and books people are managing their properties for bigger and better bucks. I bet there is over 3000+ acres of club land (4 or 5 different clubs)just in the small community I hunt in that all put forth an effort to keep doe management and shoot quality bucks. Not to say all the neighbors in our area are doing the same but that's a lot of land spread over several miles that are trying. There are 3 of us in our lease, we are pretty much weekend hunters for the most part, and for the last 10 or so years I've been hunting there we have taken at least 1-2 wall hangers every year between the 3 of us and they seem to get bigger and bigger every year. How many kids do you see holding up trophy bucks these days? Look at Zac Cooper. Did you know a Zac Cooper when you were his age? (Don't shoot me Zac for using your name) Most will say no. It just didn't happen. We have way more resources, way more education, and a much healthier deer heard now than we did 30-40+ years ago. Not to say there weren't some big bucks killed and I personally have seen pics of 175lb does from the 60's when soybean farming was the big farming ticket. But to say that deer are scoring smaller than they use to I totally disagree. I bet there are more numbers of trophy bucks along with havinghigher average scoreskilled in AL every year now than there ever has been. 

Just my .02.


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## TUBBLAWNS (Feb 18, 2008)

I have hunted in Alabama since 1992, and out of the four counties I have hunted in, the black belt definitely lives up to its name, whether or not it might not be as good as it once was, because of the crops, with a lot more camps going to management strategies, and planting year round plots, supplement feeding and such, I believe it somewhat supercedes the "old cropland" to an extent. We hunt in Forest Home, and out of the +/- 3500 acres we have, which is all private family owned land, not my family, but a friend of mines family, a lot of the land is leased to farmers growing a rotation of peanuts, cotton, and corn, and it is amazing how much sign is around them crop fields than any other place on the camp. But, we see just as much sign around the plots too, so my point is with the proper feed management and herd management, which I think a lot more people are starting to do, I believe you will start to see that good buck ratio start to rise again. I know this, over the last 4 to 5 years I have witnessed and heard of a lot better deer being shot, than the 8- 10 years before. I worked at a lodge some in Dozier, Ala. during the summer when I was in college, and they had some monsters on their wall that were mainly shot during the 80's and a few being shot during the early 90's, but did go through a pretty long lull during the mid to late 90's till just a few years ago. I just think that management and not shooting up the woods, and trying to outkill everyone else in camp will go along way. I have been a part of such a camp years ago and for the four years I hunted it, I never seen but 1 good rack buck come off of that property while I was there. I have been in my current camp 5 years now and have seen good to great bucks every year come off of the property, and it's because of the different mentality of our hunters verse the other camp, we are all after the same thing!!!!! Sorry so long, but I was bored. Just my opinion. :hotsun


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## HeartofDixie (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Grassflatsfisher (11/19/2008)* I bet there are more numbers of trophy bucks along with havinghigher average scoreskilled in AL every year now than there ever has been.


Sorry, but thats just <U>not</U> true. The number of 'record book' trophy bucks coming out of the 'Black Belt'has been slowly decreseing in the last 3-4 decades...thats just fact...look it up in the books and I 've also seen it first-hand. Also, this thread is about the decline of the 'Black Belt' (or so I thought from Garbo's1st and 2nd paragraph), not AL as a whole. Bigger bucks are being killed in other parts of the state, which was not the case 20-30 years ago. Now, we need to get on the same page as to what type of buck we are all talking about.I'm refering tomonster, 'record book' bucks (looking like they came from Illinois or Kansas) that used to a dime a dozen back 20-30 years ago...Not the bucks like you mentioned Zac killed...thats a fine fine buck (one I would drop in a second & be thrilled), but come-on let's face it, thats no 'record book' monster buck.

Here's a great article on this very subject. Its long, but if this thread interest you, then you should read it. I highlighted some high points and heres a link to it as well. Link: http://www.alabamagameandfish.com/hunting/whitetail-deer-hunting/al_aa120103a/<DIV class=title>*Is the Black Belt Dying?*</DIV><DIV class=deck>*When it comes to producing trophy whitetail racks, this hotbed of activity shows some signs of decline. Here's a look at the situation and its causes.*</DIV><DIV class=byline></DIV><DIV class=byline></DIV>





_By Zack Glover_ 

Ask Matt Wright of Tuscaloosa or Montgomery's Jason Grubbs if he thinks the glory days of deer hunting the Black Belt counties in Alabama are long gone. Both are likely to look at you as if your brain needed an adjustment.





Wright and Grubbs do not know each other, but both shot 14-point bucks during Alabama's 2002-03 season, each of which were the hunters' best whitetails to date. Matt's Dallas County buck grossed 165 3/8 inches on the Boone and Crockett Club scoring system, while Jason's Macon County deer amassed 169 4/8 points.





Butch Herren of Trussville is also likely to scoff at the notion of the region's downhill slide. While prowling Lowndes County last season, he shot the largest buck to come out of Alabama - a 22-pointer that grossed 227 6/8 inches. Needless to say, he won't be swapping his hunting area for supposedly greener pastures.<DIV class=s2><A name=cont></A></DIV><A name=cont></A>



I've been keeping tabs on this state's bruiser whitetails for more years than I'd like to admit. In spite of the impressive animals already mentioned, I'm more inclined to say that the Black Belt's buck boom has lost a little of its luster. The three deer above, as well as a few more that have been featured in this magazine in recent months, are the exceptions rather than the rule.





I'm not the only watcher of all things antlered who feels this way, though I'd love to be proven wrong. Only time will tell, but let's look closer at the evidence.



<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=235 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>







<DIV class=imagecaption>Matt Wright (l.) downed this 14-point Macon County buck in January of 2003. That's Jason Parsons helping with the deer. Photo courtesy of Matt Wright</DIV><DIV class=s1></DIV><DIV class=hri></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



*<DIV align=center>PREFACE</DIV>

*Deer hunters from near and far might not realize it from looking over the latest Boone and Crockett Club (B&C) record books, which list only five Alabama whitetails with more than 200 inches of antler, but the <U>*Heart of Dixie*</U> has actually produced at least 43 bucks with racks that big. That figure does not count any taken since 1999. 







In order to qualify for Records of North American Whitetail Deer, B&C's state-by-state registry of bodacious bucks, a deer must net 160 points as a typical or at least 185 as a non-typical. For the club's all-time record book, the minimums are 170 and 195, respectively. If a deer makes the grade, the hunter must then mail the official score sheet and fee to Montana before it is listed. Unfortunately, not everyone does that.





The same doesn't hold true for Alabama's own record book, which is privately published. Not only are the minimums lower, but the scores are tallied without deductions. Also, forking over the entry fee at the time the deer is measured is a lot easier than mailing it off with a score sheet.





Without launching into a debate over the fairness of deductions - the side-to-side differences on a buck's typical frame - I can say with authority that most Alabamians will be sure to list their trophies with Alabama Whitetail Records, whether or not the animals make the appropriate B&C minimum. The result is that far more deer are recognized locally than by Boone and Crockett.





More simply put, if you really want to know what's hitting the dirt in this state, you'd do well to consult the homegrown registry. The figures I'm about to throw at you all come from the latest (fourth) edition of that book.



<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=150 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>







</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



*<DIV align=center>BIG-BUCK BELT</DIV>

*Believe it or not, folks from all over the world have at least heard of Alabama's famed Black Belt and the bucks that call it home. I've been asked about it in Canada, Africa and Finland, as well as by friends in numerous other states. 







So named because of the nutrient-rich soil that spans our state's midsection, the dozen counties - plus portions of two or three others - were once our agricultural epicenter. The abundance of nutritious food grown there nurtured some awesome whitetails.





From the 1950s to the mid-1990s, the Black Belt routinely yielded incredible bucks. These came from Pickens, Sumter, Greene, Perry, Hale, Marengo, Dallas, Wilcox, Lowndes, Macon, Bullock and Montgomery counties.





Comprising less than 4 percent of the state's landmass, this thin, crescent-shaped strip coughed up 52 percent of the bucks listed in the first edition of Alabama Whitetail Records, which was published back in 1989. Today, among the 20 or so deer harvested yearly that surpass the 150-inch mark, <U>relatively few are taken from Black Belt counties.</U>





Throughout the 1980s, when the yield of record book bucks from the fertile crescent reached its peak, there were just as many magazine stories about the Black Belt's super bucks as there were tales about monster deer from anywhere else on the planet. In fact, in that decade alone 98 whitetails taping more than 150 inches of antler came from the area.





That was before soybeans and other row crops practically disappeared from the rural landscape. That was before the area's deer population began exceeding the carrying capacity of the land too.





Nowadays, stories about Bama's Black Belt are far more rare. Many believe the region's heyday, which led to the price of hunting leases jumping from less than a dollar to almost $20 an acre, are gone. There are still lots of land, lots of deer and great soil, so the potential for growing monster bucks is still there. But, as stated, it is only "potential."





In this new millennium, Alabama's biggest bucks are coming from areas where the deer aren't so plentiful. It is still true that no other region produces as many wall-hanging bucks wearing between 140 and 150 inches of antler as the Black Belt. But when you are talking honest-to-goodness world-class deer, the luster is tarnished.





Until the Black Belt's agricultural practices change and either man or Mother Nature thins the herd, very few of its bucks can reach their full potential.





David Nelson, a state wildlife biologist and antler measurer from Forkland, said about six years ago that the Black Belt was in trouble. In his dual capacities, David got to see more trophy deer, speak with more landowners and look at more hunting statistics than any one person in west Alabama.





"In a lot of Black Belt counties, if the deer populations climb any higher, we're going to continue to lose quality," he said. "Food sources are becoming more diluted as pine plantations mature, shading out a lot of good deer food. We'll still see some good quality deer, but that's more a testament to really good management.





"Numbers are hurting us," he continued. "I see more quality in the counties north of here, where the population isn't as dense."





Among the best of those newcomers are Jackson and Madison counties, which have overtaken Greene County in the state's overall rankings. Tuscaloosa, which last year produced a 185 1/8-inch main-frame 8-pointer for Joel Dorroh, and Lamar, which seems to produce at least one monster specimen each season. Last year, Lamar gave up a 26-pointer to Steve Pinkerton of Sulligent that taped out at 226 4/8 inches!





Chris Cook works alongside David Nelson in the DWFF's Demopolis office. Only now, Chris has the responsibility of monitoring the deer harvest - not only in their district, but also across the entire state.





Now serving as the state's deer studies project leader, Chris believes that David's prediction has come to pass.





"Deer densities are way too high in the Black Belt," he affirmed. "<U>It'll never be as good as it used to be</U>. The best are going to be 140-class deer at age 5 1/2."





Chris said the trend can be reversed if the land is farmed like it used to be and the current deer population is reduced. But chances of the former happening are slim, leaving things up to hunters.





"If the property is managed correctly, you see some nice deer," he said. "And most of the people are taking the right approach and shooting does, creating a more appropriate level for the habitat.





"We're giving them the opportunity through the doe season, and we're trying to educate folks," Chris continued. "Alabamians are swamped with the right information these days."





Yet by most estimates, the number of deer is not falling. This could be the bitterest pill for landowners and leaseholders to swallow, especially those folks who remember the 1970s so vividly. It is the memory of large herds running single file through vast hardwood bottoms that makes it difficult to believe that we have more deer today then we did once upon a time.





The thing is that the biologists making the hard-to-swallow claim aren't necessarily referring to actual deer numbers. They're talking about the land's carrying capacity, and the land has changed dramatically. Not only has farming plummeted, but a mostly pine forest isn't in the same league regarding forage production as hardwoods are.





So, there may actually be fewer deer than in historic times, but there is also far less quantity and quality of habitat to support them.





*<DIV align=center>THINNING THE HERD</DIV>

*In some cases, clubs and landowners need to re-evaluate their self-imposed restrictions on does. Several target only big mature does because they have an aversion to shooting fawns and yearlings - sometimes out of fear that the little ones are button bucks. 







The result is that more young mouths are left to eat the available food. The problem isn't helped by the people who refuse to shoot does in January because the animals might be pregnant, or others who don't shoot them in October and November because they're still nursing.





"We've done too good a job convincing people not to shoot button bucks," Chris admitted. "This has hurt the doe harvest. My philosophy is if deer numbers are way too high for the habitat, I tell people not to worry about the size of the does. They just need to take out deer, as long as they're not taking out a huge percentage of buck fawns.





"You have got to take some bad with the good," he added. "It's not a mortal sin to kill a button buck. It's not the end of the world."





Managing does, or actually hungry mouths, is just one part of the management scheme in the Black Belt. If a club or landowner wants to also manage for trophy bucks, more restraint is needed in the buck department.





Though not voiced by state wildlife managers, the fact is an antler point restriction can be the worst way to manage for trophy bucks. It's simply not a proper indicator of age, and if you want to see how big a mature buck can grow on your property, it has got to live to see its fifth or sixth birthday.





Just because it's an 8-pointer and legal to shoot by your club's standards doesn't mean that it's a mature deer. If you take it, you might have culled a superior 1 1/2- or 2 1/2-year-old. If you're happy with that, fine. But don't complain about the size of your bucks afterward. You just removed the cream of the breeding crop!





Antler spread - like "outside the ears" - is more reliable than counting points, but Cook said that main-beam length and mass are far better indicators of a buck's age.





"Actually, the best way to determine if a buck is mature is to get away from judging its antlers altogether," Chris explained. "You have to look at the whole deer."


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## deeptracks (Oct 2, 2007)

Our lease in Butler County is located in what used to be the Butler Mgt. Area. No deer expert here, but from what I have seen over the past 12 yrs or so would appear to be a decline. Not to say there are not some studs still roaming because we capture them on gam cams and see them on the roadways at night. We find signs of what would appear to be nice large buckson the property, and at least one of us will typically kill a good buck each year. I personally believe that partof the difficulty in hunting the larger buckshas to dowith the landscape of planted pines and associated thickets. There is so much cover that the deer do not have to travel strict routes and can basically move under cover for miles with little threat.They also seem to have become more nocturnal. That may be because of the advent of deer cams and the fact that a lot of deer are seen at night. In realitythat may not in fact be the case however.


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## ilander (Oct 2, 2007)

I have been an avid hunter in the black belt for the last 50 years and this is My observations. The chance of killing a real trophey buck in Alabama is probley better now than ever. There are 10 times more deer now than there was 25 years ago and probley 50 times more hunters. 25 years ago most deer died of old age due to the fact that hardly anyone hunted planted plots and oat patches like they do now which basicly gives You a look at every deer on Your property. Most deer then were killed hunting with dogs, on deer drives or killed over natural food sources like acorns or in some cases planted crops like corn or beans. The deer now usually don't get old enough to reach there full protential and a lot of land is so over populated that full nutrition is just not available. I think that if you numbers are kept in check [kill the crap out of does] plant year round food plots and let you bucks live to 5 1/2 years old you will grow the same size bucks We were killing 25 years ago. And that's My story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Grassflatsfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *HeartofDixie (11/20/2008)*
> 
> 
> > *Grassflatsfisher (11/19/2008)* I bet there are more numbers of trophy bucks along with havinghigher average scoreskilled in AL every year now than there ever has been.
> ...


</DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center>







</DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=left>HOD...I agree with the atricle for the most part. But the title of the thread says "Alabama" not just the "black belt". I'm referring to the state as a whole. There are more big bucks taken in the state of Alabama now than ever has been. The guy writing the artcle even said most trophy bucks are coming from throughout the state now not just from the black belt.As for why I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Mostly education and theslow down offarming. I'm stillscratching my head over the caption above that I pulledfrom the article. To me it contradicts.It looks like the trend has been going up not down. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong though.</DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center></DIV><DIV align=center></DIV>


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## TUBBLAWNS (Feb 18, 2008)

also remember, this is only on collected data, not everyone reports their "studs" to the Dept. I know that in the last 4 years I have witnessed 5 bucks scoring over 140 inches being shot, and not a one of those guys reported the kill to the Dept. Then, think about all that get killed by night hunters that never get found, hit by cars, and other ways of dying, hell, just plain old age. Back then, not as many people hunted so it was more of "news" when bucks like that get killed, and it got around to the Dept. for recognition a lot easier. I still think it is getting better not worse, some people have also relied on plot hunting to kill their deer. A lot of people abandon the woods to plot hunt, and I think they miss out on a lot of deer activity doing this, I know guys who do nothing but plot and road hunt, and they kill deer, nota whole lot of good ones though. Just my .02 cents worth.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Good Thread. 

I think we are headed south of where the Black Belt once was. 

Anyone hunted Central Alabama for enough years to be able to tell the difference?


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

One thing I have noticed from my 15 years of hunting experience in AL is that Alabama bucks have the most screwed up horns of any deer I have seen. We now hunt in FL and hardly ever kill a deer that isn't perfectly symetrical. It is hard to find a buck in AL who's rack isn't messed up on one side.


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## xl883lo (Oct 24, 2007)

> *Garbo (12/19/2009)*Good Thread.
> 
> I think we are headed south of where the Black Belt once was.
> 
> Anyone hunted Central Alabama for enough years to be able to tell the difference?


Garbo. 

I grew up in and hunt North Alabama(Madison County). When I was a kid it was a big deal if we found a deer track on our farm(I hunted or fished and was in the woods almost everyday from 5-17). We moved there when I was five and until I was 21 (when I moved to Texas)we only actually saw deer once on our farm and there wasn't an open season for deer. When I went hunting growing up I went to Skyline/Paint Rock Valley or to a club down by Demopolis. Now parts of our farm look like a cattle feed lot from the deer tracks. The deer population has explodedall overAlabama which helps previously unpopulated/underpopulated areas like my farm but has caused overpopulation and driven down the size of animals in previously well populated areas. 

I read an article some years agoabout howdeer in North Alabama were genetically different. The deer in South are primarily indiginous Southern Whitetails while the deer in North Alabama are a mixture of Southern Whitetails and Northern Whitetails (from Pennsylvania and Illinois I believe)that were transplanted in Northern Alabama and Southern Tennessee during the 30's 40's and 50's. The same article discussed how that the Northern part of the state did not produce the pure number of trophy bucks but on a percentage basis it was more productive. It has been my experience that the deer in North Alabama are bigger. I never see the "unspotted fawns" I have seen hunting South Alabama.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Does anyone think supplimental feeding (corn, or whatever) would help? It seems to work just fine in Texas.


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## user285 (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Matt Mcleod (12/20/2009)*Does anyone think supplimental feeding (corn, or whatever) would help? It seems to work just fine in Texas.




Matt, I would think that the places that are taking the managment of there deer herd seriously would already be using suppliments like soy beans/corn/etc. the ones who do not are really only want to kill something not wanting to grow a better herd (buck to doe ratio,body size or antler size) they just want to show up and hunt. I can tell you that i hunted the black belt for 15+years and when we first started there the land owner planted soy beans and had been for decades. Well about 3 years later he quit the soy beans and started with cotton, the body size was a true reflection of this within a year( i would say an average of 30#) we noticed this and started supplimenting soy beans in troughs through out the summer(in my 500acre section i was putting out 2400# about every month) the body weight did come back up a little(about half on average) but not to where they were originally. I think the black belt overall has lost its mojo, to many hunters in the area now with less natural resources(hard woods) and row crops. there are still a few great leases in the black belt that have been properly managing, but the average tract of land that use to hold several studs now only has a couple average deer.IMO


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