# EDF's Fish Tags Are Here!



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Here is an article about the 3 headboats out of Alabama fishing in the Headboat EFP. *Of interest is where each customer may purchase the ability to catch and keep two red snapper at $20 per snapper tag. *Did I mention that tags are not part of the EFP? That's just something they slipped in there for......you guessed it - "accountability". 

Yeah, right.

So, this "crackpot" predicted this very thing which the EDF-funded fellows adamantly denied would ever happen - the for-hire vessel would charge their normal charter price, then charge for each snapper you want to take home. At an average weight of 3-5 pounds per fish, that equates to these jokers charging you *$4 to $7/pound* *for each snapper that YOU catch*, above and beyond the price of the charter.

If you like this, there's MORE to come with Catch Shares, Cooperatives, Sector Separation, and Recreational IFQs!

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

*http://www.gulfcoastnewstoday.com/ar...9bb2963f4.html*

*GULF* *SHORES AND ORANGE BEACH, AL* – Thanks to a pilot program including three Orange Beach-based fishing charters, visitors to Alabama’s Gulf Coast have an opportunity to catch and keep red snapper outside of the typical summer season.
According to collaborative manager Capt. Randy Boggs, “this program was designed by headboat captains who wanted to find a better way to regulate recreational for-hire fishing, one that would ensure strict adherence to catch limits but without being constrained by short fishing seasons.”
*Program overview*
The Gulf Headboat Collaborative (GHC) is a group of 17 headboat captains from Brownsville, Texas to Tampa, Fla., who are testing a new allocation-based management program that will allow them the freedom and flexibility to fish for red snapper and gag grouper when it is best for their businesses and customers. Granted an experimental fishing permit by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), this pilot program has two years to be successful.


Through strict monitoring and reporting requirements, the EFP will allow the headboats in the collaborative to catch the same number of fish they would normally catch during the short fishing seasons but to take anglers fishing anytime during the calendar year.


Participating headboats will test new electronic data collection methods and collaborate with academic researchers to help answer important management questions about this new approach to managing recreational for-hire fishing.


*Orange* *Beach* *charters*
“Locally, we have three headboats that are participating in the program,” Boggs said. “Since this is a federally permitted program, we want fishing charter guests and those anglers on personal vessels to be clear that red snapper season is not open for everyone. Our program goal is that once we prove this fishery management model to be successful, that the powers-that-be will expand it to all recreational fishing charters. For now and the next two years, guests wishing to catch red snapper outside of the typical season should contact the locally participating headboats.”
Orange Beach-based headboats participating in the 2014 GHC are as follows:


*Gulf Winds II and Reel Surprise Charters*
Both located at SanRoc Cay Marina (27267 Perdido Beach Blvd; Orange Beach, AL36561), Phone: 251-981-7173 or Toll Free: 800-806-7889. Send email inquiries to [email protected] or visit www.reelsurprisecharters.com.


*Zeke's Lady Charters*
Located at Zeke’s Landing Marina (26619 Perdido Beach Blvd; Orange Beach, AL36561), Phone: 251-981-4044. Send email inquiries to [email protected] or visit www.zekeslanding.com. 



From Jan. 1 through May 23, 2014, these three headboats are offering an eight-hour fishing charter for $125 per person that will allow each guest to catch and keep a maximum of two red snapper. Tip and fish cleaning are not included in this price.


Six-hour charters are also available on these three headboats at a cost of $85 per person, and each customer may purchase the ability to catch and keep two red snapper at $20 per snapper tag.


For more information about the GHC, visit www.gulfheadboat.com.


*Additional Information:*
To learn more about the Gulf Headboat Collaborative, check out these frequently asked questions: www.gulfheadboat.com/faq/.


To view a PDF of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA) press release on this program, go to http://1.usa.gov/1ggmGUc.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Unbeleaveable!!


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## Reel Estate (Nov 28, 2007)

Absolutely disgusting.


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Can you explain to me how these participating headboats are being regulated in the "regular season?" By that, I mean, if the season that the rest of us have to follow is 40 days (as an example) and these headboats (I will call them the "coop" here to fore) fish lets say 12 days outside of the 40 day season, who is making sure they DON'T fish those 12 days "in season?" 

Or do I misunderstand it? Do they get a "poundage" that is to be calculated (by some flawed system) from these tags?


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

Like I've said all along. Follow the money. This is nothing more than redistribution of wealth and making us pay our FAIR share.


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

That's insane


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## jjam (Dec 9, 2007)

“*Since this is a federally permitted program*, we want fishing charter guests and those anglers on personal vessels to be clear that red snapper season is not open for everyone. Our program goal is that once we prove this fishery management model to be successful, that the powers-that-be will expand it to all recreational fishing charters. For now and the next two years, guests wishing to catch red snapper outside of the typical season should contact the locally participating headboats.”

*Since this is a federally permitted program*, keep these dirt bags from harvesting red snapper in state waters! 

The state/s did not offer permits but yet our near shore reefs are being raped while we sit and watch.

Un-fn'-believable!

Jimmy


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Screw these guys, filet and release...


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

State needs to put a stop by not letting them land the fish. So now they are also licensed to sell seafood. What a bunch of BS.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I hope that the $20.00 a pop for the snapper is their downfall. You can buy a lot of snapper at Joe Pattis for $40.00.


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

The beauty of having a kayak is that I can launch 25+ miles from either pass get a couple of snapper and be back home in under an hour with out ever seeing another boat. All in season of course. No really, I dont break the law but I sure as heck dont agree with it!

Itd be AWESOME if the states grew a pair and told these headboats to stay out of state water with their special privileges.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

here we go.... I can envision in the future that everyone that wants to keep and eat a red snapper. will have to obtain a fish tag at a price till the fish tags run out for the year. With the number of fish tags available based on the poundage of snapper allocated. Think walmart will carry the tags for $?


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

They already do up NE for some species.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> here we go.... I can envision in the future that everyone that wants to keep and eat a red snapper. will have to obtain a fish tag at a price till the fish tags run out for the year. With the number of fish tags available based on the poundage of snapper allocated. * Think walmart will carry the tags for $?*


No think to it, they are behind this all the way... to the bank!


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## jjam (Dec 9, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> here we go.... I can envision in the future that everyone that wants to keep and eat a red snapper. will have to obtain a fish tag at a price till the fish tags run out for the year. With the number of fish tags available based on the poundage of snapper allocated. *Think walmart will carry the tags for $?*











Jimmy


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

Kim said:


> I hope that the $20.00 a pop for the snapper is their downfall. You can buy a lot of snapper at Joe Pattis for $40.00.


You can supply alot of Dolphin in a day too!!! Just don't vent them and see what happens.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

jjam said:


> “*Since this is a federally permitted program*, we want fishing charter guests and those anglers on personal vessels to be clear that red snapper season is not open for everyone. Our program goal is that once we prove this fishery management model to be successful, that the powers-that-be will expand it to all recreational fishing charters. For now and the next two years, guests wishing to catch red snapper outside of the typical season should contact the locally participating headboats.”
> 
> *Since this is a federally permitted program*, keep these dirt bags from harvesting red snapper in state waters!
> 
> ...


 THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbdown:


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I can also envision a day where recreational fisherman with boats will band together offshore and run in a type of pack with lookout boats running radar catching snapper. pull up to designated drop off point in the surfline on a deserted beach to unload their recreational catch to a beach cart to be transported by truck to a designated point to be distributed back to the fisherman. civil disobedience. bring on the drones...


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> I can also envision a day where recreational fisherman with boats will band together offshore and run in a type of pack with lookout boats running radar catching snapper. pull up to designated drop off point in the surfline on a deserted beach to unload their recreational catch to a beach cart to be transported by truck to a designated point to be distributed back to the fisherman. civil disobedience. *bring on the drones..*.


Don't say that they are liable to arm them and then shoot and ask questions later.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

Why AREN'T the states fighting this happening in state waters? They manned up and told the feds to F off in regards to season dates, so why not this?


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

johnboatjosh said:


> Why AREN'T the states fighting this happening in state waters? They manned up and told the feds to F off in regards to season dates, so why not this?


Because long ago, the State (FWC) agreed to take money from the feds to enforce (Fed) fisheries rules in federal waters. Bite not the hand that feeds you... :whistling:


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

*Magma grill + fresh caught snapper*

1. Catch any size snapper you want to eat. 2. Add Magma grill, cook to perfection, 3. Add salt, lemon, etc. 4. Eat! 5. No evidence.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Sea-r-cy said:


> 1. Catch any size snapper you want to eat. 2. Add Magma grill, cook to perfection, 3. Add salt, lemon, etc. 4. Eat! 5. No evidence.


 THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:thumbup:


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

So we have the commercial guys that can fish 365, now a few select head boats that can fish 365.Next the charter for hire guys that will be getting this. NMFS came up with for "accountability reasons". You can call it what you want to , but it is all about the money. If "accountability is the reason for this, then why are they selling fish tags. Seems to me if they do this NMFS should at least collect enough money from these guys that it will cover the cost of the program. Charge them xx percent per fish and use that money for something useful as data collection so the taxpayers do not have to fund it . At least the commercial side pays 3 percent (which is a total joke). This deal with charging per fish is over the line. I think I need to go a federal park, cut a few choice trees , come back and sell them. Makes about much sense as this mess.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

If I recall correctly Captain Tom Hilton warned of this a couple years back and it started a trend of baleful eyes and hateful looks on some fishing forums. As a matter of fact we experience a little of that drama every now and then over the same subject still. Now that is in fact happening on a trial basis (something that was tabled at one point and wriggled back into the here and now) what is coming down the pike next? 

There will be a lot of song and dance about how we all have to stick together but I'm afraid that once again Captain Tom Hilton will be right again when push comes to shove between us and them. The us being the recreational anglers and the them being the Charter For Hire sector. When it comes down to money in the CFH sector pockets they will throw the recreational anglers to them starving Korean dogs for some bad uncle treatment.

I don't know what the answer is but the future just isn't a rosey picture for the recreational angler. I know you CFH guys are going to blah blah blah that your customers are recreational anglers but the way this is going the only way we are going to be a recreational angler is if we pay you for the privilege of catching a pubic resource. That doesn't seem very fair to me or even worse if we have to buy tags from Walmart, CFH, etc. At this point all I can say and I quote is "Dang"!


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Sea-r-cy said:


> 1. Catch any size snapper you want to eat. 2. Add Magma grill, cook to perfection, 3. Add salt, lemon, etc. 4. Eat! 5. No evidence.


I really wanted to point this same thing out myself earlier on many different posts/threads but......not sure of the backlash from the libs. Me and the wife want fresh fish we have it! BTW slow boiled in crab boil is very good also or so I have heard....who would know. Rules are just suggestions anyway when they are issued from the Feds. Hey look at their record.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Kim said:


> If I recall correctly Captain Tom Hilton warned of this a couple years back and it started a trend of baleful eyes and hateful looks on some fishing forums. As a matter of fact we experience a little of that drama every now and then over the same subject still. Now that is in fact happening on a trial basis (something that was tabled at one point and wriggled back into the here and now) what is coming down the pike next?
> 
> There will be a lot of song and dance about how we all have to stick together but I'm afraid that once again Captain Tom Hilton will be right again when push comes to shove between us and them. The us being the recreational anglers and the them being the Charter For Hire sector. When it comes down to money in the CFH sector pockets they will throw the recreational anglers to them starving Korean dogs for some bad uncle treatment.
> 
> I don't know what the answer is but the future just isn't a rosey picture for the recreational angler. I know you CFH guys are going to blah blah blah that your customers are recreational anglers but the way this is going the only way we are going to be a recreational angler is if we pay you for the privilege of catching a pubic resource. That doesn't seem very fair to me or even worse if we have to buy tags from Walmart, CFH, etc. At this point all I can say and I quote is "Dang"!


All I know is, you don't know me and you just confirmed every reason I've never liked you. You're a bullshit artist with a big mouth. Did you even stop to wonder why there are NO PENSACOLA CFH boats involved in this. 
Screw you Kim. Forever.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

These feds stole my 200lb per trip commercial permit and took away my rights to fish for that measly 200lbs during that 10 day derby season. I closed shop after these assholes mandated that I buy "poundage" from other fishing operations. I lost thousands. But if they come after me and tell me I have to fall in line, I'll spend my last dollar going against them. Once again, screw you Kim.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

I've attended meetings in 3 states. I've told these people over and over that this fishery can not be divided between CFH/Headboats and the pure recreational fisherman in a fair manner. *IT CAN'T BE DONE.... It just can't be done. They can try and explain but in the end, one of us gets screwed if they succeed in splitting the sectors. That's why I'VE BEEN STICKING WITH THE RECs. I need them as badly as they need me. *


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Well Burnt Drag all I can say is that you appear to be a candle in the wind from the CFH sector and I hope you stick to your guns until the bitter end.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Full accountability, electronic monitoring, and VMS will be coming to a charter boat near you soon Burnt Drag. Might as well get ready for it. Real time catch data will be the first step of equal division of the pie. As it was for the head boats. They used 2011 catch data, and equated it to a 40 day season. Boats that had data showing average catches of 30 people got one amount and larger boats like ones in texas that had data showing 80 and 100 people got another amount. It will be the same for the rest of the CFH the data will come first.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Kim said:


> Well Burnt Drag all I can say is that you appear to be a candle in the wind from the CFH sector and I hope you stick to your guns until the bitter end.


Kim, Burnt Drag said screw you! Just in case you missed it. LOL


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

And I meant every word of it. And Fairwater, it aint over.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Burnt Drag said:


> And I meant every word of it. And Fairwater, it aint over.


Full accountability, electronic monitoring, and VMS will be coming to a charter boat near you soon Burnt Drag. Might as well get ready for it.

If you have a permit on your boat that will soon mean you too. In the next two years I would assume if not 2015.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Here are some quotes from Fairwaterfishing (Capt. Tom Ard);

"Oh yea and I have heard nothing about y'all having to pay or lease any tags or fish."

"Pure fantasy, I don't have a commercial license, I can't sell fish. Commercial/charter boats can't sell fish with charter customers on board."

Clueless is all I can say.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Tom Hilton said:


> Here are some quotes from Fairwaterfishing (Capt. Tom Ard);
> 
> "Oh yea and I have heard nothing about y'all having to pay or lease any tags or fish."
> 
> ...


Ok well I see you took the quotes out of context but I can remember the first line and we were talking about recreational tags, for the true rec. Ok that has nothing to do with what were talking about now.


Same thing out of context again, but they still can't sell fish. They can sell the ability to keep one. Nothing has changed they have charged for fishermen and non-fishermen for years. Plus they can charge for towels to wipe your hands and better bait.

Still Clueless and reaching hard Capt Sinksalot.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwater I don't care how you try to spin this. They are selling fish. Those tags are not for towels, bait, or non fishermen they are for fish and nothing else. So they are selling fish.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

johnboatjosh said:


> Why AREN'T the states fighting this happening in state waters? They manned up and told the feds to F off in regards to season dates, so why not this?


Many states like Florida did! Alabama has tried to grab as much as they could while the rest of us were busy fighting for what was right! I am completely ashamed of the state of Alabama and ANY person who would support this type of "get mine and to hell with everyone else" fisheries management!!


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Full accountability, electronic monitoring, and VMS will be coming to a charter boat near you soon Burnt Drag. Might as well get ready for it. Real time catch data will be the first step of equal division of the pie. As it was for the head boats. They used 2011 catch data, and equated it to a 40 day season. Boats that had data showing average catches of 30 people got one amount and larger boats like ones in texas that had data showing 80 and 100 people got another amount. It will be the same for the rest of the CFH the data will come first.


And here's a perfect example of yet another Alabama charter operator who is ready and willing to throw someone under the bus to "get his".

Tom, years from now when you explain to your children how they system works and how it got this way the feeling you will feel in the pit of your stomach when they look at you with a confused stare....Yeah that's shame, perfectly normal feeling for someone who has done what you have.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Ok well I see you took the quotes out of context but I can remember the first line and we were talking about recreational tags, for the true rec. Ok that has nothing to do with what were talking about now.
> Same thing out of context again, but they still can't sell fish. They can sell the ability to keep one. Nothing has changed they have charged for fishermen and non-fishermen for years. Plus they can charge for towels to wipe your hands and better bait.
> Still Clueless and reaching hard Capt Sinksalot.


It's sad when "professional" captains make fun of another captain's misfortune for political gain or perverted pleasure. All I can say is that what goes around, comes around Captain - Karma is a bitch. Good luck to you.

You also implied on another forum that I was running illegal charters - would you care to elaborate on this? My attorney really would like to get a better understanding of your accusations.

And no, the quotes are not out of context.

Captain Thomas J. Hilton


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## Safari III (May 24, 2012)

*I found this interesting.*

According to the NOAA Bulletin FB13-107 

*"Participating vessels must retain all legal-sized fish that appear to be mortally injured and must cease targeting red snapper and gag when they have no remaining quota for their vessel."*

This sounds like someone was trying to really sell this idea. It may have been a few isolated events but with what I have witnessed in the past this requirement may not be a common practice for the for hire guys. 

Sounds like this means no more feeding flipper. I wonder how many HBs will actually comply with this requirement? 

*How awesome would it be if a few recreational boats shadow these HBs and make sure they are in compliance. Maybe we could get some good video for the OBFA to post on their FB page. *

I for see a big snag in the works with this requirement. Joe Blow from Minnesota isn't going to be too happy paying to take home the 3lb snapper he just gut hooked.

Who will be on the hook to pay for those fish?

The question I have still not heard answered from the charter fleet is WHY? 
The last video I saw from Orange Beach was a bunch of charter captains standing on Zeke's docks saying there was an overabundance of ARS. If that's the case then why not open it for all? Why is there a need a special season for the 17 selected boats? 

*Note to Zeke's and any other marina supporting this program:* Next time I need a take on a couple hundred gallons of diesel fuel or any other fishing goodies or care to just dine and relax while dockside, I’ll be sure you’re not one of the places I do it at.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Still Clueless and reaching hard Capt Sinksalot.


Haha, your boat is soooo sinking in the near future. Karma is a mother. Hope your life raft doesn't have any holes in it.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Fairwaters boat might go down but it won't be from a simple bilge pump or lack of high water alarm. I'll bet his insurance will pay him on the spot too!


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Many states like Florida did! Alabama has tried to grab as much as they could while the rest of us were busy fighting for what was right! I am completely ashamed of the state of Alabama and ANY person who would support this type of "get mine and to hell with everyone else" fisheries management!!



Matt there are just as many or more head boats on this pilot in Florida as it is in Alabama. Alabama has 3 miles state waters, the head boats on our pilot will be going 20 miles straight south to catch bbs as always, the red snapper will be a by-catch. Hence there are none in the program out of pensacola your treasured inshore state reefs should be fine.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Safari III said:


> *Note to Zeke's and any other marina supporting this program:* Next time I need a take on a couple hundred gallons of diesel fuel or any other fishing goodies or care to just dine and relax while dockside, I’ll be sure you’re not one of the places I do it at.




Your a drop in the bucket when compared to 33 charterboats running 50 trips a day there. Get ready to breakout your wallet when you pass Zekes and Sanroc up. Those are the 2 cheapest on the island.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Tom Hilton said:


> It's sad when "professional" captains make fun of another captain's misfortune for political gain or perverted pleasure. All I can say is that what goes around, comes around Captain - Karma is a bitch. Good luck to you.
> 
> You also implied on another forum that I was running illegal charters - would you care to elaborate on this? My attorney really would like to get a better understanding of your accusations.
> 
> ...


Actually that was all your buddies from your port saying that you were running illegal charters with an unseaworthy vessel, oh that just got a bad vessel survey. NOT I Lots of your good friends were telling plenty of Tom Hilton stories around the camp fire at the deer camp. I guess I was not all that far off with the aluminum foil hat huh? Oh yea Karma is a bitch, how does it taste?


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## Safari III (May 24, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> Your a drop in the bucket when compared to 33 charterboats running 50 trips a day there. Get ready to breakout your wallet when you pass Zekes and Sanroc up. Those are the 2 cheapest on the island.


 I agree 100% that they won't miss any of my money. However all of my friends feel the exact same way as I do. They don’t comprehend the logic behind letting a select group fish out of season. Some of these friends are also business owners that take their customers and employees on annual trips (aka fishing charters) in Orange Beach and have done so for many years. They have expressed the same opinion and won’t be booking from folks supporting this program this year or the next. I can only vouch for my group of friends but I feel certain from reading some of the comments posted on numerous sites that many others feel the same. You do realize that 97% of the people commenting on the program was not in favor don't you? Those charter boats/captains supporting this program may not have a need to buy much fuel at the marina if there are others that do the same.

I may be “just a drop in the bucket” but when you add all the other drops together the bucket “runneth over”. Some people will go out of their way to support a business that can relate to and remains loyal to their customers. It wouldn't surprise me if this new program had a few unintended consequences as most big government overreaches and debacles come with. This is just my opinion but I think some of these less popular marinas may see a little boost in their economy this summer.


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## spike (May 25, 2008)

"unintended consequences"

Exactly, And I guarantee you that there will be "unintended consequences".
And these same captains will be crying and when the do what they are saying today will haunt them. I recently heard a interview with Sig Hansen, Northwestern, Deadliest Catch - he said the catch share program has severely hurt their ability to make money and the fleet has went from several thousand boats to a couple of hundred and many of the people are playing golf and have never fished in their life. His words. These captains WILL be sorry in the future. Govt programs have destroyed my business and when it started they said "WE ARE JUST HERE TO HELP"


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Matt there are just as many or more head boats on this pilot in Florida as it is in Alabama. Alabama has 3 miles state waters, the head boats on our pilot will be going 20 miles straight south to catch bbs as always, the red snapper will be a by-catch. Hence there are none in the program out of pensacola your treasured inshore state reefs should be fine.


I bet every now and then Crabtree just goes to laughing his ass off at people like you. You spend all this time and money allowing yourself to be completely distracted from the real problem, and therefore any real solution, and at the end of it all you "achieve your goal" and you don't get one single more day to snapper fish. Congratulations.....


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Now this is what the rec fishermen need, charter captains bitching and threatening each other. There still may be hope.


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## Scardog7 (Oct 11, 2011)

gator7_5 said:


> Haha, your boat is soooo sinking in the near future. Karma is a mother. Hope your life raft doesn't have any holes in it.


Agree. It is not going to bode well.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

This is the list of boats.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I had an interesting day spent online researching the IFQ debate. I hadn't realized how much data was out there and that other countries have had this experiment ongoing for decades and their programs are at best still shades of gray. I had assumed that the entire CFH sector would be a tremendous winner awarded public resources for ever. As it turns out that's not going to be the case as you may have noticed in posts between CFH Captains. The IFQ trend has a downside for the IFQ winners, in each region where it has been implemented the new guys, the guys with the smaller catch histories have mostly been thrown to the hungry dogs for the Korean bad uncle treatment along with the recreational anglers.

History and politics are an odd couple but unfortunately they are comfortable in bed together. The whole IFQ debacle most like will turn out like the family farms, corner drug stores, hardware stores and every other Main Street family business that built America and ended up going out of business because they could not compete with the large corporate box stores. Why would I say that? The biggest reason is that I found over a dozen businesses whose business was connecting permit holders and corporations buying, selling,leasing fishing IFQs and permitted boats. It's a sticky wicket for sure and I know that the questions in this debate will not be be answered in my lifetime.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Kim said:


> I had an interesting day spent online researching the IFQ debate. I hadn't realized how much data was out there and that other countries have had this experiment ongoing for decades and their programs are at best still shades of gray. I had assumed that the entire CFH sector would be a tremendous winner awarded public resources for ever. As it turns out that's not going to be the case as you may have noticed in posts between CFH Captains. The IFQ trend has a downside for the IFQ winners, in each region where it has been implemented the new guys, the guys with the smaller catch histories have mostly been thrown to the hungry dogs for the Korean bad uncle treatment along with the recreational anglers.
> 
> History and politics are an odd couple but unfortunately they are comfortable in bed together. The whole IFQ debacle most like will turn out like the family farms, corner drug stores, hardware stores and every other Main Street family business that built America and ended up going out of business because they could not compete with the large corporate box stores. Why would I say that? The biggest reason is that I found over a dozen businesses whose business was connecting permit holders and corporations buying, selling,leasing fishing IFQs and permitted boats. It's a sticky wicket for sure and I know that the questions in this debate will not be be answered in my lifetime.



What you will end up is a conagra of the gulf fishery that holds all the pounds and leases them out. The reason some captains are clamoring to get on board now is they want to try and get paid along the way...


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

One of the things I found surfing through reams of data and reports online is that they call them the grandfather IFQs. Belonging to retired captains who don't even fish anymore that lease their IFQs to the highest bidder. Yes there are actual corporations quietly accumulating IFQs, they in turn lease them out, hard to believe a fishing business that doesn't fish.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Kim said:


> One of the things I found surfing through reams of data and reports online is that they call them the grandfather IFQs. Belonging to retired captains who don't even fish anymore that lease their IFQs to the highest bidder. Yes there are actual corporations quietly accumulating IFQs, they in turn lease them out, hard to believe a fishing business that doesn't fish.


Fishing families may hang on for 40-50.0r 100 years who knows? But one day a generation will cash in and sell out.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

markw4321 said:


> Fishing families may hang on for 40-50.0r 100 years who knows? But one day a generation will cash in and sell out.


I had a few lbs of snapper allotment left from the screwing I took when they stole my 200lb permit. One of the commercial boys was making noises that "those lbs are going un-fished" and "we could be catching and selling those fish". As if they were entitled to my un-caught share. They even proposed that the un-caught fish should be divided up amoungst them. I promptly found a buyer and sold the remaining poundage to pay off the loan I took out to buy the permit. I still lost over 5 grand.


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## 52fish (Feb 27, 2008)

Burnt Drag said:


> I had a few lbs of snapper allotment left from the screwing I took when they stole my 200lb permit. One of the commercial boys was making noises that "those lbs are going un-fished" and "we could be catching and selling those fish". As if they were entitled to my un-caught share. They even proposed that the un-caught fish should be divided up amoungst them. I promptly found a buyer and sold the remaining poundage to pay off the loan I took out to buy the permit. I still lost over 5 grand.


How much does the commercial permit cost?


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Is there a large fish distributor in the Pensacola area? Lets say you drop the barrier between commercial and recreational and everyone can sell their catch to a distributor. Who would you go to if that biz existed? Does Joe Patti's buy, package, and ship fish?


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Word on the street is that the headboat in Galveston participating in this EFP got 9,000 snapper....let's see, multiply that by the average weight of 5.16 pounds and his boat was gifted a possible 46,440 pounds of fish. That would mean that this one Texas headboat landed more fish than the ENTIRE Texas charter fleet (+_200 boats) in 2012. Even if you reduce the weight to 4 pounds for his particular vessel average, that still comes out to an inordinate amount of quota gifted to this operation (36,000 pounds). 

They did the same thing a few years ago up in the NE when they gifted the Hookers (another EDF front group) an inordinate amount of quota.

It's past time for a lawsuit on this debacle.

Tom Hilton


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

The 2 year time frame of the Headboat EFP is designed to put maximum financial pressure on the boats not participating in the program to just survive, and to force them to accept the catch shares plan.

The 2 Texas headboats that participated in the iSnapper program reported an average of 1,695 red snapper each in 2011, which is I believe the year used to apportion the fish to these 17 headboats in the EFP. Compare those numbers of fish landed vs the rumored 9,000 fish allotted to the one Galveston headboat, then the picture becomes somewhat clearer as to the unfairness of this "pilot". Or compare the 1,695/boat per boat vs EFP average of 3,266 fish per boat - on average, across the board and including the Tampa boats, DOUBLE the fish.

Not to mention the gist of the recent Galveston newspaper article (below), where one boat is able to fish in January or anytime they want "like the old days", and the other headboats are forced to stay tied to the dock.

If these boats were willing to provide public access to the numbers of fish landed in the iSnapper pilot study, then why not ALL of the headboats in this EFP pilot study? It's all about "accountability" right? iSnapper provided that accountability, but I don't see this headboat EFP providing any accountability to the American Public - just mafia-style pressure tactics using the same old NMFS methods of hide and seek with the data.

Tom Hilton

Gorgeous day greets anglers

By JOE KENT | Posted: Monday, January 20, 2014 12:00 am
Another gorgeous day greeted anglers on Sunday.
Visitors to the island crossing the causeway must have compared Galveston to one of the Caribbean Islands as the blue-green water of Galveston Bay caught their eyes.
With the water temperature continuing to remain in the low 50s, fishing has been limited to our basic wintertime fish. Whiting, sheepshead, black drum, sand trout and an occasional speck and red have been the norm lately.

It felt like old times when I read the fishing report from the Party Boat Capt. John on Sunday as it has been many years since red snapper could be retained in January. Early on when the Gulf Council set seasons for red snapper, the start date was April 21, then it moved to June 1. Regardless of the start day the season never lasted past October, and now it runs less than a month and a half.

Williams Party Boats is part of an experimental, or pilot, program where selected vessels are given a quota on red snapper and can fish all year in order to catch their allocation. Once the quota is caught, that is it for red snapper on that particular vessel for the remainder of the year.

Other party boats are restricted to the season designated for red snapper; however, they are limited only to the two fish bag limit and not a quota during the short season.

Saturday’s trip was to the sunken ship, V.A. Fogg, about 40 miles south of the jetties, with a stop at the old Buccaneer Field, about 26 miles away and in the general direction of the old ship that now is a haven for divers and fishermen.

The 82 anglers aboard returned with 162 red snapper along with 18 Gulf trout, vermilion snapper and a triggerfish. A bull red was caught and released. John Pennington of Pearland limited out on red snapper to 19 pounds.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

The 2 year time frame of the Headboat EFP is designed to put maximum financial pressure on the boats not participating in the program to just survive, and to force them to accept the catch shares plan.

The 2 Texas headboats that participated in the iSnapper program reported an average of 1,695 red snapper each in 2011, which is I believe the year used to apportion the fish to these 17 headboats in the EFP. Compare those numbers of fish landed vs the rumored 9,000 fish allotted to the one Galveston headboat, then the picture becomes somewhat clearer as to the unfairness of this "pilot". Or compare the 1,695/boat per boat vs EFP average of 3,266 fish per boat - on average, across the board and including the Tampa boats, DOUBLE the fish.

Not to mention the gist of the recent Galveston newspaper article (below), where one boat is able to fish in January or anytime they want "like the old days", and the other headboats are forced to stay tied to the dock.

If these boats were willing to provide public access to the numbers of fish landed in the iSnapper pilot study, then why not ALL of the headboats in this EFP pilot study? It's all about "accountability" right? iSnapper provided that accountability, but I don't see this headboat EFP providing any accountability to the American Public - just mafia-style pressure tactics using the same old NMFS methods of hide and seek with the data.

Tom Hilton

Gorgeous day greets anglers

By JOE KENT | Posted: Monday, January 20, 2014 12:00 am
Another gorgeous day greeted anglers on Sunday.
Visitors to the island crossing the causeway must have compared Galveston to one of the Caribbean Islands as the blue-green water of Galveston Bay caught their eyes.
With the water temperature continuing to remain in the low 50s, fishing has been limited to our basic wintertime fish. Whiting, sheepshead, black drum, sand trout and an occasional speck and red have been the norm lately.

It felt like old times when I read the fishing report from the Party Boat Capt. John on Sunday as it has been many years since red snapper could be retained in January. Early on when the Gulf Council set seasons for red snapper, the start date was April 21, then it moved to June 1. Regardless of the start day the season never lasted past October, and now it runs less than a month and a half.

Williams Party Boats is part of an experimental, or pilot, program where selected vessels are given a quota on red snapper and can fish all year in order to catch their allocation. Once the quota is caught, that is it for red snapper on that particular vessel for the remainder of the year.

Other party boats are restricted to the season designated for red snapper; however, they are limited only to the two fish bag limit and not a quota during the short season.

Saturday’s trip was to the sunken ship, V.A. Fogg, about 40 miles south of the jetties, with a stop at the old Buccaneer Field, about 26 miles away and in the general direction of the old ship that now is a haven for divers and fishermen.

The 82 anglers aboard returned with 162 red snapper along with 18 Gulf trout, vermilion snapper and a triggerfish. A bull red was caught and released. John Pennington of Pearland limited out on red snapper to 19 pounds.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Okay, I have been pretty silent about all this in the past since I asked the question to a few “Who will/wants or is going to represent the rec guys in this fight” I asked a few hard questions, and got boo’d out, but I’ll ask again….

If the rec guys were to organize, who could we donate money to in order to get noticed at these meetings? Meaning, “One voice, One fight” type of thing…. The charters are organized, the rest of us??? Not so much….

I think it’s past time for a little action, we all know complaining on the PFF isn’t really doing much….. ideas?


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## Fielro (Jun 4, 2012)

Insane! Follow the money


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Realtor,
That's a GREAT question.
Don't know what to tell you, except perhaps it should be our states' legal teams to mount a legal challenge since they have the resources and the incentive to protect their constituents' rights.
Tom


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Tom Hilton said:


> Realtor,
> That's a GREAT question.
> Don't know what to tell you, except perhaps it should be our states' legal teams to mount a legal challenge since they have the resources and the incentive to protect their constituents' rights.
> Tom


 what's the matter with starting with the local County Commissioners and mounting pressure there? The Rec guys live here and contribute to the Tax base too.... I brought this up in the past, with a lot of friction like "They are getting kick backs" and all that BS. If the Rec guys hire a layer, there goes all the money (IMHO), but I would think the local politician would want to make a name for themselves fighting for this on TV and all.... Just a thought....


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

Realtor said:


> what's the matter with starting with the local County Commissioners and mounting pressure there? The Rec guys live here and contribute to the Tax base too.... I brought this up in the past, with a lot of friction like "They are getting kick backs" and all that BS. If the Rec guys hire a layer, there goes all the money (IMHO), but I would think the local politician would want to make a name for themselves fighting for this on TV and all.... Just a thought....


All good points. BUT, politicians will "follow the money" and blow which ever way the wind blows to their benefit. The person or persons who will represent this cause has to be "owned" by the people that is represented. In other words a Hired Gun who can be fired if there is no performance. If we would happen to be so lucky as to know of a good lobbyist who is also a recreational fisherman, that's the guy. On the other hand, if we would happen to know an avid fisherman, perhaps a six-pack charter captain, that is an experienced public speaker, and business man; great. Would be better if we knew someone with these credentials who was also a writer for a local newspaper who would take up the cause and lead the charge and get things organized. One person can't do it alone. Everyone on this forum, other forums, and anyone who fishes is going to have to get involved.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Looks like I was mistaken with the assertion that the Galveston party boat participating in this Headboat EFP for 9,000 fish - they only got 8,779 fish. That number has been verified - if you don't believe me, call Mr. Williams and ask him directly.

The boats in Port A that participated in the iSnapper averaged 41 anglers, and about 38 days fishing out of the 47 day season. They averaged 1,695 fish each. William's boat holds up to 83 people (2X more than 40), so even if you multiply the 1,695 By 2 you get 3,390 fish, but SOMEHOW he got 8,779? *MORE THAN 2.5X THAN WHAT HE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY CAUGHT? *

Why are they concealing the numbers of fish given to each boat in this EFP? How could that information supposedly damage their company? 

*8,779 fish is enough for his boat and put 80 anglers on limits of red snapper 55 days of his choice. His competition has to fish a contiguous 40 days, of which some will certainly be unfishable due to weather. This is a fair analysis? *No, nothing fair about it - it's an infomercial using unrealistic numbers (and secrecy surrounding those numbers) to sell their product - Catch Shares for the Gulf recreational fisheries.

It's past time for the discovery that a lawsuit would provide to show the shenanigans going on here. 

Shouldn't our state fisheries departments be concerned about this? Where are they on this?

Also, I believe the EFP specified that the fish couldn't be traded or sold - doesn't the selling of fish tags over in Alabama violate that or was the language to mean that it applied only between participants in the EFP?

Tom


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## DI 310 (Jun 17, 2012)

"Also, I believe the EFP specified that the fish couldn't be traded or sold - doesn't the selling of fish tags over in Alabama violate that or was the language to mean that it applied only between participants in the EFP?"

Really do not understand all of the details , but it states in the EFP that if one exceeds his quota that he cannot fish until he "aquires" more quota from the co op manager or another boat. Sure sounds that this will lead to selling and trading. Probably end up as what it in the commercial sector.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Realtor said:


> what's the matter with starting with the local County Commissioners and mounting pressure there? The Rec guys live here and contribute to the Tax base too.... I brought this up in the past, with a lot of friction like "They are getting kick backs" and all that BS. If the Rec guys hire a layer, there goes all the money (IMHO), but I would think the local politician would want to make a name for themselves fighting for this on TV and all.... Just a thought....


 Jim, Okaloosa County has a Commissioner that has 2 boats in the Pilot program. Kelly Winds. I personally know him and didn't think he would throw his friends and co fishermen under the bus like he did. That's ok when it comes time for re-election I'm sure he will get thrown under the bus in return.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

The LaJess II said:


> Jim, Okaloosa County has a Commissioner that has 2 boats in the Pilot program. Kelly Winds. I personally know him and didn't think he would throw his friends and co fishermen under the bus like he did. That's ok when it comes time for re-election I'm sure he will get thrown under the bus in return.


 it was just a suggestion, One thing for sure, what we as Rec fishermen are doing, isn't doing much to help ourselves....

Jim


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Realtor said:


> it was just a suggestion, One thing for sure, what we as Rec fishermen are doing, isn't doing much to help ourselves....
> 
> Jim


 I agree 100%.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

lobsterman said:


> Like I've said all along. Follow the money. This is nothing more than redistribution of wealth and making us pay our FAIR share.


Redistribution of wealth is a great example. 
Just like the America government took away the working mans health insurance only to give it to the non working man. 
Makes no since. 
But..................................that's America


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

This was all done by crooked politics. 
And most all politicians are as crooked as a ***** pecker. 

Meaning dollars made this happen. And the boats that are in it, crookedly put dollars somewhere to make this happen. Nothing is free,.,.,.,.,.,.sad to see our sport was bought like that.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Realtor said:


> it was just a suggestion, One thing for sure, what we as Rec fishermen are doing, isn't doing much to help ourselves....
> 
> Jim


Maybe you remember a couple of years ago when I offered to organize a demonstration. You pissed on it. What's different now, Jim? Sorry I went off on you like a middle school brat, but this train has nearly run.
What is going to happen is that when they split us off (CFH from rec) is that the accountability that's imposssible under the current system becomes possible with the CFH sector. The Pimps of Sector Seperation know that they can absolutly control the CFH. There will be more rules than will fit in a filing cabinet. We dock at the same place. They always know when we're out. They can never ever keep track of what the true rec does b/c we launch from so many different places. They've never really attempted to keep up with rec (other than surveying a few boat ramps). One thing they'll be able to do when they know the CFH has reached their quota, their data can easily be manipulated to do whatever they please to the recs. It's going to be a genie that will never go back into the bottle.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Burnt Drag said:


> Maybe you remember a couple of years ago when I offered to organize a demonstration. You pissed on it. What's different now, Jim? Sorry I went off on you like a middle school brat, but this train has nearly run.
> What is going to happen is that when they split us off (CFH from rec) is that the accountability that's imposssible under the current system becomes possible with the CFH sector. The Pimps of Sector Seperation know that they can absolutly control the CFH. There will be more rules than will fit in a filing cabinet. We dock at the same place. They always know when we're out. They can never ever keep track of what the true rec does b/c we launch from so many different places. They've never really attempted to keep up with rec (other than surveying a few boat ramps). One thing they'll be able to do when they know the CFH has reached their quota, their data can easily be manipulated to do whatever they please to the recs. It's going to be a genie that will never go back into the bottle.


Allocation and IFQ for CFH and Fish Tags for true Recreational's. Sorry its slapping most of you on here in the face but its been headed in that direction for over 5 years.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Burnt Drag said:


> Maybe you remember a couple of years ago when I offered to organize a demonstration. You pissed on it. What's different now, Jim? Sorry I went off on you like a middle school brat, but this train has nearly run.
> What is going to happen is that when they split us off (CFH from rec) is that the accountability that's imposssible under the current system becomes possible with the CFH sector. The Pimps of Sector Seperation know that they can absolutly control the CFH. There will be more rules than will fit in a filing cabinet. We dock at the same place. They always know when we're out. They can never ever keep track of what the true rec does b/c we launch from so many different places. They've never really attempted to keep up with rec (other than surveying a few boat ramps). One thing they'll be able to do when they know the CFH has reached their quota, their data can easily be manipulated to do whatever they please to the recs. It's going to be a genie that will never go back into the bottle.


 Don't know what's different, a couple years older, a little smarter, who knows??? I don't.... possibly because its reality now.... I remember some off the wall (it seemed off the wall at the time) cant remember our pissing match specifically, but I remember some of the things like.... Lets all the rec guys go fishing at the same time out of season and we all bring snapper in out of season, they cant stop us all.... kind of things, and I remember the blocking of the passes with rec fishermen and not allowing the charters out the passes.. and such.... 

If its to late, then so be it... I'll deal with it just like everyone else will on their own way..... I know I'm guilty of not foreseeing this coming, but to be honest, I truly didn't think it would get to this point....


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

FYI, I just got home from a OBFA meeting and one of the guys at the state were there. This year Alabama will have a self-reporting system in place for all that catches red snapper in the state of Alabama. They have already split the Rec and the CFH as far at that catch data is concerned. The reporting system will be app. phone based and will be mandatory so when you get checked at dockside or by the law enforcement it better be filled out. Then they will fully know how many charter boats are fishing for red snapper in the 2014 season. Right now there are like 174 fed permit holders in Alabama but only 126 with both Fed permits and state commercial license. So right now they really don't have a clue how many fishes or how many times they fish.


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## PoolBoy074 (May 2, 2012)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> FYI, I just got home from a OBFA meeting and one of the guys at the state were there. This year Alabama will have a self-reporting system in place for all that catches red snapper in the state of Alabama. They have already split the Rec and the CFH as far at that catch data is concerned. The reporting system will be app. phone based and will be mandatory so when you get checked at dockside or by the law enforcement it better be filled out. Then they will fully know how many charter boats are fishing for red snapper in the 2014 season. Right now there are like 174 fed permit holders in Alabama but only 126 with both Fed permits and state commercial license. So right now they really don't have a clue how many fishes or how many times they fish.


Is this for all or just for charter captains?


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/29/3840120_all-fishermen-dont-belong-in-the.html

Yamaha Outboards just shared this on their Facebook page. First sign that any big manufacturer even knows something is going on. Unfortunately, I think that all of this is too little, too late. I won't give up yet, though.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

PoolBoy074 said:


> Is this for all or just for charter captains?


Sounds like just CFH, but I welcome recreational data collection.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

*amendment 40*

This was sent to me by one of our largest suppliers. It seems that they are getting on board with RFA in their fight to stop amendment 40. They asked me to post this and hopefully you will click on the link and state your opposition to the amendment. If it has already been posted I am sorry for the duplication. 



RFA URGES OPPOSITION TO SECTOR SEPARATION
Gulf Comments Against Divide & Conquer Campaign Due Wednesday 

   _January 21, 2014_ - During the summer of 2012, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council (Gulf Council) heard from thousands of recreational fishermen in opposition sector separation mechanisms proposed under Reef Fish Amendment 39. Because of the sheer volume of public comments opposing this proposal to divide and conquer the recreational fishing community into smaller portions, the Gulf Council took no action to advance this ill-advised plan. 

On December 24th, 2013, the Gulf Council sneaked a new proposal through during the busy holiday season, once again pushing forward mechanisms that would ultimately divide and conquer the recreational fishing sector in the Gulf. 

The Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is once again asking anglers to unite in opposition to this effort to once again divide our recreational fishing community. 

Reef Fish Amendment 40 will consider the formal partition of the recreational sector into two distinct components, one being the private angling component made up of individual saltwater anglers, a second component being a federal for-hire component. Red snapper resources would then be allocated between these components. 

RFA executive director Jim Donofrio said such action to divide the recreational sector into components would then rely on government data to reallocate recreational harvest limits based on best available data, data which he called "fatally flawed." 

"Once again, the federal government is using the regional council process to divide our angling community into have's and have not's, without any reasonable harvest data to guide their decision," Donofrio said. "The Commerce Department and its National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) is allowing the recreational fishing sector to be ripped apart piece by piece, without ever meeting their congressional mandate to provide better data." 

Despite the thousands of anti-sector separation comments received by the Gulf Council and Commerce Department over the past year and a half, activists who would like to see individual fish tags implemented across the recreational fishing spectrum are continuing to push their agenda through the council process.

"The key thing to remember on this sector separation scam is this; the Gulf Council tabled sector separation after I laid on the podium, as part of the public record, copies of over 400 pages of comments against sector separation," said RFA member Capt. Tom Hilton of Texas. "By giving them 1-1/2 years to gather signatures from customers going fishing on charter boats each morning, we can expect the EDF-funded captains to come out in full force with reams of paper supporting sector separation, count on it."

Just recently, a new exempted fishing permit study was implemented by the Gulf Council, with support from Environmental Defense Fund (EDF) and their organizational advocates, whereby a small group of headboats get to fish for red snapper whenever they want. Donofrio calls the sector separation and fish tag plan the environmental industry's final solution to capping fishing participation in the United States. 

"Once the recreational sector is divided, the fish tag mechanisms can move forward on a grander scale until ultimately the only way anyone can fish for red snapper, grouper or sea bass is by purchasing a harvest tag for each fish you plan to take," Donofrio said. "Anglers really need to stand up in unison to oppose these divisionary tactics." 

"Radical fleet reduction is the goal," said Capt. Chip Blackburn of Mexico Beach, FL. "First headboats, next will be charter for-hire, next will be the rest of recreational fishermen."

RFA and its representatives in the Gulf chapters are asking anglers to visit the Gulf Council public comment page this week to respond in opposition to the Amendment 40. 

"We believe maintaining an open fishery with fair and equitable regulations that sustain the fish and the fishermen is a better method of fisheries management," said Capt. Tom Adams of the RFA's Forgotten Coast chapter, adding "we believe management needs to abandon their efforts to promote catch shares and sector separation and focus their efforts and funding on improved stock assessments with more appropriate modeling that will account for the substantial growth of a fishery like red snapper." 

As Blackburn noted in his 2012 comments in opposition to the plan, "As a charter fisherman with federal permits and almost 30 years in the business this blatant attempt at divide and conquer is disgusting. I, as are all my customers, totally opposed to sector separation and catch shares."

Capt. Blackburn and others are particularly incensed at the Gulf Council's new pilot program which has given 17 hand-selected Gulf party boats 5% of the overall recreational quota for 2014 red snapper. One recent promotional sign on a participating headboat boasts Yes, You Can Keep Your Red Snapper Today, which Blackburn said is "right down the road from me in Port St. Joe while I am tied to the dock by federal regulations. Is it time for civil disobedience yet?" 

RFA called civil disobedience one potential option for the future, but today they are encouraging anglers to speak out against Amendment 40. 

Click here, or go directly to the link below to send your comments directly the Southeast Regional Office of NMFS (www.gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/comment_forms/RF%20Amendment%2040%20-%20Sector%20Separation.php)

RFA urges all individual anglers and business owners to make their comments unique - but the following points can be used to make your individual case in opposition to the plan. 

_*I am against implementing Sector Separation for the Gulf of Mexico.*_

_*I am against recreational catch shares and individual fish tags in the Gulf of Mexico. *_

_*I believe a federal inquiry into the Commerce Department's action to pilot a program which takes 5% of the recreational fishing quota away from anglers should be opened immediately. *_

_*I believe the pilot program is unfair, unethical, and I support the Recreational Fishing Alliance in questioning the overall legality of just such a program which financially rewards the few while penalizing the many. *_

_*I believe NMFS has been derelict in its duties to fix the recreational data collection in a timely process and will be asking my member of Congress to take immediate action to hold our government accountable for its gross neglect of our recreational fishing community. *_

_*As a recreational angler, I would ask that the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council to vote down Reef Fish Amendment 40.*_


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

MrFish said:


> Sounds like just CFH, but I welcome recreational data collection.


What the State guy told me tonight and this is not the first time I heard this is that everyone that fishes for red snapper out of Alabama will soon have mandatory reporting via phone app. They already have the app for whitetail deer and turkeys but as of now thats just a voluntary program, they will just add red snapper to this app. They are going to split the data collection between CFH and Rec to see the actual % of pounds caught by each.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Isn't having a PUBLIC resource hijacked by a band of well funded, well connected (think Lubchenko) radicals peachy? They got the commercial side and they were not happy with that, now they want ours. Goat Fuckers.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

A few years ago I posted something about the commercial sector and the CFH sector both being "commercial" because even though the CFH takes recreational anglers fishing, money still changes hands and I consider that a "commercial" business. That being said I suggested that since the commercial sector already has an arbitrary 51% of the TAC of a public resource, why not just throw the CFH sector in with them and then they can figure out how to carver up that 51% of the TAC between them leaving the ever growing population of recreational anglers the 49% of the public resource allotted to the public. In thirty years the US population will have doubled since this past census and we will probably have twice as many recreational anglers fishing for a fixed resource. In theory all the fish, foul and wildlife that are public natural resources should be for the public only. It makes me wonder when the department of commerce gives a public resource to private business enterprises, how much will be enough? If I did something along those lines I would be arrested, prosecuted and put in jail for stealing. Go figure.


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## PoolBoy074 (May 2, 2012)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> What the State guy told me tonight and this is not the first time I heard this is that everyone that fishes for red snapper out of Alabama will soon have mandatory reporting via phone app. They already have the app for whitetail deer and turkeys but as of now thats just a voluntary program, they will just add red snapper to this app. They are going to split the data collection between CFH and Rec to see the actual % of pounds caught by each.


1 more question to you and others.... Will the actual reports hurt us in BAMA or help show their numbers are bogus.....????:thumbdown:


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

PoolBoy074 said:


> 1 more question to you and others.... Will the actual reports hurt us in BAMA or help show their numbers are bogus.....????:thumbdown:


I feel that when we get accurate real time data it will show that we are catching way more than they think. In the long run this will be a good thing because it will prove how wrong they all were for so long!


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

What the above poster either fails to understand, or fails to mention, is that either way the gov't is going to take from the recreational boat owning angler. If it is reported that we caught more than they estimate, they will say we are overfishing, if it is reported under what they estimate they will say the fish have been overfished.... I can't believe the above poster has not seen this pattern over the years


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> What the above poster either fails to understand, or fails to mention, is that either way the gov't is going to take from the recreational boat owning angler. If it is reported that we caught more than they estimate, they will say we are overfishing, if it is reported under what they estimate they will say the fish have been overfished.... I can't believe the above poster has not seen this pattern over the years


True. We need to work to get the stock assessment changed. It's just that tiny little thing of counting ARS on artificial reefs.


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