# Ballyhoo vs. Lures when trolling? and a few rigging questions



## apporition77

I'm new to trolling but plan on giving it a shot in October if schedule and weather allows. The plan is to head out to the spur/nipple area and start dragging baits. I have 5 30w's but plan on trolling with four to keep it simple at the beginning. I will also be using outriggers. I honestly don't care to target a particular species yet and would be happy for just a knock down or two. I have three questions for you guys. 

Question 1: I know trolling with ballyhoo seems to be the norm either skirted or naked. Any thoughts on trolling lures vs. ballyhoo. My plan is to stop by Sam's in Orange beach and invest in some Moldcraft or Williamson lures vs. ballyhoo and skirts. Would I be lowering my chances at a bite using lures vs. ballyhoo?

Question 2: I recently purchased a crimping kit and would like to us fluorocarbon leader vs. wire. What pound leader do you recommend and how long of a leader? I know there is a chance of a wahoo cutting me off but I like the idea of having several pre-made leaders ready to go. If I troll a stretch 30 or marauder than that will have wire. 

Question 3: My reels are spooled with 30lb. mono. what do you guys recommend for attaching the leader? A snap swivel with or without bimini twist than a snap swivel for attaching lure?

Thank you in advanced for your help and advise.


----------



## Chris V

1) I pull a combination of lures and ballyhoo and very rarely either/or. I like lures in certain positions of the spread because they add variety and action and because they are "fire and forget" baits that won't need any checking for washing out or short hits. For example, my shotgun bait is almost always an artificial. I have pulled full spreads of artificials plenty of times though as have many others on here and have done very well. When you stop by our store, either myself or Mark can help you pick out a spread and show you where to place them in your spread.

2) I pull most of my baits on mono leaders with the exception of my naked ballyhoo rigs. I have experimented using heavy fluoro with lures and just never felt I did any better with the much more expensive fluorocarbon. I match my mono size to the lures. Smaller lures have much better action on lighter leaders. I rarely get cut off by a Wahoo on my trolling baits. My plugs are always rigged on heavy single strand wire. they pull great on single strand, it isn't highly visible and its cheap and easy to rig with.

3) If you are fishing a smaller boat with limited crew and using lighter outfits, I'd recommend using a short double line to a wind-on leader and use shorter trace leaders on your lures and baits. This will make it easier to get control of a fish boatside and eliminate the need for a wireman. You can bypass the Wind on leaders if you wish but then I would use a 10ft double line connected to your snap swivel via offshore swivel knot. Either way, if you're in a smaller boat, I would keep your trace leaders somewhat shorter.


----------



## Magic236

You can't go wrong with Chris V. Like Chris V, I troll a combination of lures and baits. There is merit to "KISS" by starting out with just lures. As you gain experience, you can start adding natural baits. Fluro is not needed.

I highly recommend and use wind on. They work and much safer. 

If you are using 30# trolling line, you will need to stick with small lures. 
Also set your drag with a drag scale.

Good luck, Tight Lines.


----------



## Chris V

I'll add this if needed; the best day of bluewater fishing I've ever experienced (action-wise) was pulling a full spread of nothing but artificial lures all day. After it was all said and done, we had over 60 strikes from Billfish, Tuna, Wahoo and Dolphin. This was fishing open water to the southeast too.


----------



## recess

They both have there purpose , try diffrent positions and combinations and eventully you'll have your go to spread


----------



## Kim

Not sure if that's Gene or Tim @ RECESS but they kind of hit the lure on the head when suggesting trying out different combinations of lure/natural baits. At some point you may want to explore rigging baits like Ahi Bellies (most people use Bonita for this) and such to be added to lures/spread.


----------



## Ocean Master

The 30lb mono is fine with the 30 wide reels. Chris at Sam's will get you started in the right direction.

One must have bait is a Blue and White Islander over Ballyhoo combo. That combination has caught more fish than anything else.


----------



## recess

Kim said:


> Not sure if that's Gene or Tim @ RECESS but they kind of hit the lure on the head when suggesting trying out different combinations of lure/natural baits. At some point you may want to explore rigging baits like Ahi Bellies (most people use Bonita for this) and such to be added to lures/spread.


Huh?? 
Recess= Tim
Purple haze= Gene 
Drink another one !!


----------



## Kim

I knew it was one of you guys, sometimes I just can't remember stuff, no drinking involved.


----------



## apporition77

Thank you guys for the help. Sounds like I need to swing by Sam's and see Chris.


----------



## matttheboatman

Hello apporition77,

I like to tell the joke that we you go into the tackle store, look around. And, after a few years you will own one of each of everything you see. So, the order in which you buy it matters little  For those afflicted, they know I speak the truth!

The above being said, if you want to keep it both simple and effective, fish with J-hook rigged Williamson rubber ballyhoo pulled inside a bullet-shaped medium size blue and white Islander lure. Each pack of 3 rubber ballyhoo will set you back about $15, and each authentic Islander about $25. But, trust me, we all have different spreads and different lures for different reasons, but you will always get the most bites on that rig. And, everything that swims out there has been caught on that rig so its good for all species. The Rubber lure means you can pull it at any speed, in any condition, and there is really no way to fish it incorrectly. 

Like me and most other fisherman, you will find a way to complicate your life, but remember this post - you will always get the most bites from the blue and white Islander / rubber ballyhoo combo. 

Catch 'em up!


----------



## apporition77

Mattheboatman,

I have herd several people say they have had great success pulling the Williamson Ballyhoo. I like the idea using them vs. real ballyhoo due to the durability and not throwing away bait at the end of the day. I cant wait to go down and see Chris V. and get rigged up.


----------



## Mullethead

Not a blue water expert but my 2cents 

I stick to artificials if I am searching for fish .. Or targeting wahoo .. And if its rough .. I can cover more ground ... Troll faster .. Deeper .. Or cause more commotion with artificials. 

If I am working specific area for Dolphin or tuna .. And it's calmer .. I like ballyhoo or Bonita strips ... More finesse .

I do admit it's more satisfying to catch a fish on a carefully prepared bally ... But I have caught more on plastics or cedar plugs


----------



## MSViking

I would certainly take Chris's advice over mine, but here is my dissenting view. I either pull plastics or natural, rarely to I combine the two. Reason being the speeds at which I troll. If I am pulling plastics I like being in the 7.0-9.0 knot range to get everything popping right. For ballyhoo (except an Ilander/ballyhoo) naked baits won't hold up or be visible at these speeds. If I am targeting white marlin or just feel I am in the zone, I will slow down to 4.5-5.5 knots, put out a Squid Nation dredge or two and then deploy naked ballyhoo. At these speeds plastic lures will not smoke or run well.

Just my view.

Robert


----------



## Chris V

MSViking said:


> I would certainly take Chris's advice over mine, but here is my dissenting view. I either pull plastics or natural, rarely to I combine the two. Reason being the speeds at which I troll. If I am pulling plastics I like being in the 7.0-9.0 knot range to get everything popping right. For ballyhoo (except an Ilander/ballyhoo) naked baits won't hold up or be visible at these speeds. If I am targeting white marlin or just feel I am in the zone, I will slow down to 4.5-5.5 knots, put out a Squid Nation dredge or two and then deploy naked ballyhoo. At these speeds plastic lures will not smoke or run well.
> 
> Just my view.
> 
> Robert


 That's pretty spot on Robert. I also rarely use naturals if above 8 knots even with Ilanders. I don't feel at the higher speeds that the ballyhoo being there makes any difference. It's more of a reaction strike at that point.


----------



## Downtime2

Current and conditions dictate alot of the stuff out there. Rougher seas, we us heavier stuff. Heavier plastics and fish them further back. Calm days, bright and noisy plastics or skirted naturals. Also, pay attention to the current and how your lures are running. With the current, you may have to run 8-9 knots SOG to get the right action in the baits. Against the current, might not be 4-6 knots to get em' to run right. Above all, you gotta be where the fish are or none of this applies. Hiltons, Roffs, Ripcharts etc. They will give you the info needed usually. With leader size, running smaller baits such as naturals targeting ******, you may go all the way down to 80-100 pound floro. Most of the time though, we run 200-350 mono on most plastics. 400 on the bigger ones. You gotta fiddle around with baits, lures, spreads, conditions etc, to see what works for YOU. Everyone has that one or two baits that work for them and don't work for you. Just the way it is. Another major factor is, pay attention! you can go hours without a sniff. Better be ready when one comes in the spread. Seen plenty on fish follow a bait, and not touch it. Sometime you have to feed em'. Whites especially. Far as wahoo, wire, and mono? Seen gracious plenty caught on mono, it's all we use for the most part. Seen a few cutoffs over the years, not alot though.


----------



## Chris V

Downtime2 said:


> Current and conditions dictate alot of the stuff out there. Rougher seas, we us heavier stuff. Heavier plastics and fish them further back. Calm days, bright and noisy plastics or skirted naturals. Also, pay attention to the current and how your lures are running. With the current, you may have to run 8-9 knots SOG to get the right action in the baits. Against the current, might not be 4-6 knots to get em' to run right. Above all, you gotta be where the fish are or none of this applies. Hiltons, Roffs, Ripcharts etc. They will give you the info needed usually. With leader size, running smaller baits such as naturals targeting ******, you may go all the way down to 80-100 pound floro. Most of the time though, we run 200-350 mono on most plastics. 400 on the bigger ones. You gotta fiddle around with baits, lures, spreads, conditions etc, to see what works for YOU. Everyone has that one or two baits that work for them and don't work for you. Just the way it is. Another major factor is, pay attention! you can go hours without a sniff. Better be ready when one comes in the spread. Seen plenty on fish follow a bait, and not touch it. Sometime you have to feed em'. Whites especially. Far as wahoo, wire, and mono? Seen gracious plenty caught on mono, it's all we use for the most part. Seen a few cutoffs over the years, not alot though.


Whatever, you don't know nuffin'!!!


----------



## Downtime2

Nah, I'm a bluewater noob....


----------



## Kim

Matt, thanks for the post! I have some of those fake ballyhoo languishing in one of the someday drawers. I tried them a couple times by themselves and never had a knock down and I never thought about trying them behind a lure even though I've see a few rigged like that in stores. Nxt time out I will try them out behind an Ilander.


----------

