# Spear guns



## ReelDuel (Oct 4, 2007)

Wow I just about have my gear so I might just as well start looking for a gun. Any suggestion?? As with all scuba things the prices vary so much and I know so little. I hope this isn't like my shotgun collection. One for this type of hunting another for that type you catch my drift don't ya.

Thanks FM


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## bmoore (Oct 10, 2007)

Actually it is!

I have three and just purchased a fourth!

I would reccomend a AB Biller 48" gun. If you want to splurge a bit more and get a better shooter get a riffe.

Probably a good all around size would be the :

<TABLE borderColor=#999999 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="90%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap>#H Hawaiian</TD><TD noWrap><DIV align=left>50" (127 cm)</DIV></TD><TD noWrap>5/16" X 55" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Go see Carlos at Bay Breeze. He will give you a good deal. Tell Bmoore sent ya! On second thought maybe don't tell him that.........


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

AB Biller 48"


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## Brandy (Sep 28, 2007)

Get the largest gun you can comfortably load quickly.In the gulf on the same dive you could see a 65 lb cobia or only 2 lb snappers. A good 50 or 55 inch gunwould be great.

If I do a drop and see nothing but average size fish I only load the bands I need for those size fish. Definatley get a three band gun. Some people use the two recommended size bands for snapper and grouper fishing. Then when they run across bigger prey they just load the third (maxed out jumbo extra short ) band for the kill on a big fish!!!!!

Clay just bought a new Riffe and ordered it with bigger bands. I was impressed with the differnce it made over my stock Riffe bands. 

When I can walk again im gonna let Clay take us out on our boat to teach him how to use it (The Riffe that is):hoppingmad


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## ReelDuel (Oct 4, 2007)

which model? Im confused about the pistol grip locations on different guns. What does this do? Once you buy a gun you need to get "Shafts and Tips" where should I go in this direction. How does the like spool up on this gun?

Thanks for the help Fred


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## TONER (Mar 25, 2008)

I LIKE A WOOD GUN AROUND 50"-60" 3 BANDS JBL OR A BILLER RIFFE GUNS ARE MADE FOR FREEDIVING 1 SHOT THATS WHAT THE REELS ARE FOR THEY ARE HARDER TO RELOAD BUT THATS JUST MY OPPINION


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## ReelDuel (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh yeah what about reel setups


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

There are as many opinions on this issue as there are spearfishermen giving them andNo one solution is "right". 

If you need to learn the ropes in respect to gun types, sizes, tips, etc. We'll be happy to runthrough the basics with you at the shop (MBT). I'm not trying to make a sales pitch, and there's no pressure to buy, it's just easier to explain all of the info with the guns and equipment in front of you.

Jim


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## ReelDuel (Oct 4, 2007)

I am going to visit. I just hate that I live in Montgomery. Long drive to go looking. I wish you were here in town so I could drop by.


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

Riffe guns are Very nice, but honestly, I prefer Biller... for cost and for ease/speed of reloading.

Right now, I'm shooting a Biller 42". In retrospect, I should have gone with something a little bigger. I think they make a 48" and maybe a 52" as well. One of those two sizes would make a great gun for a beginning spearfisher, and should keep you happy for a long while.


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## bmoore (Oct 10, 2007)

Here are some links,

A AB Biller gun: 54" (shaft size)

http://cgi.ebay.com/AB-Biller-Mahogany-spear-gun-Speargun-54-New_W0QQitemZ320256986904QQihZ011QQcategoryZ47353QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A riffe gun, mid handle 44" shaft

http://cgi.ebay.com/Riffe-Teak-Mid-Handle-Series-44-Speargun-New_W0QQitemZ360005646092QQihZ023QQcategoryZ47353QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

The riffe metal tech series is nice but the guns are slightly heavy and sink without the shaft. A wooden gun will float w/o the shaft. I have both.


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## craasch210 (Oct 4, 2007)

So far, I have hunted with the Biller, Riffe, jBL, and now the Sea Hornet (closely associated with AB Biller). My advice would be to get the longest gun you can comfortably load. I started with the 42' Biller, but quickly found that it was to short for me. My favorite gun by far has been the sea hornet 52'. Sea hornet measures their guns differently, it would be comparable to a biller 60'. It only has two bands, but has more punch than any of the Biller three band guns. Personaly, I hated the riffe and found it not to be practical for the type of hunting that I do. Of course, that statement is only personal preference,as many people love the riffe guns.

Ok, probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes. I really have no loyalty to any particular dive shop. I have made purchases from all of them. But If I had to suggest a place to get your gun it would definately be MBT. When I bought my Billers, I priced them at all of the shops (including Bay Breeze). MBT was around $110 cheaper at MBT than Bay Breeze. At the time, I really wanted to dive out of Bay Breeze, do to their location being closer to where my boat was stored. When I told them what MBT's price was, they told me that they "just couldn't compete" with that price. The same happened when I bought my BC unit. They told me it was because MBT was having their yearly sale. I then informed them that MBT had that same price for at least the 11 months (because that was when I priced it initialy). THe guy pretty much told me to go to MBT if that was indeed the price. He even made a joke and said that they were going to go there and pick up a few BC's, because they couldn't get them from the manufacturer that cheap. 

More importantly, the service at MBT is above and beyond what it really should be. Here's a quick story. I was doind a beach dive out of Navarre beach one day when I realized I forgot my dang mask. Bay breeze was closer, so I made a quick run in and picked up a cheapy $25 mask at Bay breeze. When I went to make the dive, the mask leaked profusely. Now this wasnt due to a defective mask, it was more due to the defective shape of my head. I cancelled the dive and went back to bay breeze to see if I could change the mask out. The staff at bay breeze was polite, but told me basicly that since I had already purchased that mask, that they would not be able to help me. I even asked for a 50% credit an another mask, but they still refused. The mask had only touched the water for about ten seconds, and even had all of the stickers still on it. It's crazy, becuase if they would have simply taken the time to make it right, I would have spent tons of money in that place. I was in the market for some high end items at the time, and was really wanting to make Bay Breeze my "base shop" due to their location. That makes me wonder. What kind of follow up service will they provide on a more expensive purchase such as a gun?

When I was purchasing my dive gear from MBT, they allowed me to change everything out until I found the right fit for me. They even brought different masks, fins, ect to the pool and let me "try them out" to see which one was the best for me. More importantly, they didnt try and "make a sale" on the most expensive thing they had. They sold me what fit me properly, which turned out to be one of the more inexpensive masks. This has happened many times over the last couple of years. I purchased a reel from them that was over $100 last year. My first trip, I stepped on the damn thing and broke it. It was my fault and they had no obligation to do anything about it. I went in to get another one. Instead of selling me a new reel, Fritz took the old one and fixed it. He refused to take any money from me. The same has held true for two spear guns that they have repaired and serviced for no charge (they didnt send it in to the factory or make me call some stupid number, they fixed it for me while I waited.) And I've lost count of how many tips that I've broken or shock cords that I've had cut. I just go in and get the parts and then one of the guys re-riggs it for me until it is perfect. 

I had a regulator go bad this year (one I purchased off the stupid internet)before an important dive that I really wanted to go on. THere was no way in hell I was going to miss the dive due to bad equipment. I knew there was no time to get my regulator fixed in time, so I set out to MBT to get a new one (I figured I was due for a new one anyway). Well instead, MBT (I forget his name) offered to service the regulator and gave me a loaner (brand new atomic regulator) to finish my diving for the week. They told me that the reg I had was a good one and that it could be fixed for pretty cheap. They did not attempt to make a sale, even though I would have been an easy mark that day due to my situation and extra money in the bank at the time. Got my reg back in no time and only cost me $127.

One last story. Last year I paid for a bulk fill card from Bay breeze for 15 fills (this can get expensive). I geared up for an offshore trip one day and went by the shop to get my fills. When I got there, they informed me that someone had stolen a piece from their fill station and that they would not be able to honor the fill card that I had already paid for because they could not fill nitrox.They also would not refund the money that I had paid for the card. They told me that the fill station would be fixed soon and that I could redeem my card then.

Needless to say, I had to go to MBT to get some bottles filled. While I was waiting, I was just venting to Fritz about what had happened. Fritz didnt say a word about the fact that I was getting service from another store. What he did do, was fill my bottles for free. He also took the Bay breeze card and turned it into a MBT card. He honored the Bay breeze card and told me that I could use it at MBT (free). There were no strings attached and he didn't say a negative word about the other shop. For the record, I threw the card away because I felt to bad about using it at MBT. But it has definately made me a lifelong customer of the MBT dive shop. Over the last couple of years, I have spent thousands of dollars at MBT due to their service and willingness take care of the "little things." 

Bottom line is this. MBT is the cheapest game around (large selection also) when it comes to spearguns and you can also count on them to back up their products after the sale. There is no way I would purchase anything major atanother shop (even if it were possible to find it cheaper, which it's not)

Just my 2cents, but if you ask the people that have been in this area for a long time, you'll get the same response.

Sorry Carlos, if this is offensive, but everything I have said is 100% accurate. My name is Chris Raasch just so you know I'm not hiding behind a screen name. The person at your shop that I was dealing with was named "josh", but you were also there when the whole bottle thing happened. I was the guy who would stop by in the ambulance all the time. 

Chris


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## Clay-Doh (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey Reelduel!

There are a ton of choices on spearguns.

One basic concept, and has been said by a few people already. Get the largest gun you can comfortably load. Depending on your height, and arm length. I can cofortably load a JBL woody magnum, or a Riffe #3. Generator man on the other hand, is short, and when he was looking for his first gun, realized that there is no way he could. He went with a 48" gun. If you can handle that, I would not go any smaler. If you can handle a bigger one, get it.

You can always load less bands if your in a school of blacks snappers or something. But when you get down, and see nice big AJ's, or see those fat grouper, but there skittish, and wont let you get to much closer than 15 feet? Youll be glad you got that extra power and range.

All new guns come with shaft and tip included, bands and shockcord too, ready to shoot. Used guns may need all of the above from were and tear and age.

Good all around guns without dropping a fortune, are JBL or AB Biller (Sea Hornet is the same as Biller). However, I would not purchase a _new_ JBL. The _old _ones were indestructable dang near. The new ones are JUNK! I have had 4 problems with a new JBL, and now of about 5 problems other people had with brand new JBL. They are very cheaply made now, and break easy, and there seems to be no quality control at there factory, and customer service is piss poor. (Try waiting almost 4 months for a gun that you used once and broke to get shipped back to you after they "fixed it", and no straight answers when you call the factory.)

Some people disagree, but, the general consensus is wood gun instead of metal. They absorb more recoil, they claim to be "quieter", they never leak, they are easy to maintain, they are neutraly boyant in the water so you can swim all day with your arm straight out holding your gun in a shooting position and never tire, and they float straight up once you shoot (the weight of the shaft out) so the shock cord is pulled out of your way while you fight your fish, instead of sinking and getting tangled in your fins. Both JBL and Biler make "woodys" in all different sizes.

If you want to start out getting an ultimate (well there are some crazy custom guns that are really ultimate, but unnessacary), then let me know. A Rifffe off the shelf, I don't care for. But with a few changes, it, in my opinion, is now my ultimate gun. 

MBT will order it for you the way youo want it also. The 2 changes I ordered it with only cost $18 extra, and makes a world of difference. The last change, is something I am doing to the gun myself...a swet little trick that will make reloading a breeze, just as easy and fast as a JBL or Biller, and will only cost me about $10!

The main difference between the JBL's, Billers, and Hornets compared to Riffe, and other higher end guns, is the stock. Riffes have a solid wood stock, front to back, with the handle attached to the bottom of the stock, and there is zero flex in the gun. The others have 2 pieces of stock, both connected to the handle in the middle, which lets them flex a little, and the handle actually becomes the weak point.

In summmary, if going with JBL or biller, get wood, biggest you can comfortably load. Go to MBT, they got all sizes you can try, and will give you additional information and help!

If you want to start off with last gun you may ever buy, but spend about twice as much, let me know, and I'll talk with ya more about how I set mine up!


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Clay-Doh (5/30/2008)*Generator man on the other hand, is short, and when he was looking for his first gun, realized that there is no way he could. He went with a 48" gun. If you can handle that, I would not go any smaler. If you can handle a bigger one, get it.


Hey, us short guys can load the big ones. It's a stretch, but I can load my 63" JBL Woody Magnumjust fine. That's only 3" shorter than I am. Haha. 

Another note is to pay attention to how each brand measures their guns. JBL lists total length. Biller lists shaft length. JBL calls my gun a 63" because of the total length even though it shoots a 48" shaft. But my JBL is slightly bigger than a Biller 48. Clear as mud right?

Plenty of good advice for you to chew on here. But the biggest agreement on here is the fact that you need a minumum of a 48" shaft for around here no matter which gun brand you go with. Most of your spearing is going to be in open water. So there is no need to have a compact gun to get into tight spaces etc...

Or you can go with something like this::letsdrink http://cgi.ebay.com/JOHNSON-SUBMARINE-GUN-SMG-FOUR-BARREL-SPEARGUN_W0QQitemZ200227464765QQihZ010QQcategoryZ47353QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## CurtyV22 (Sep 30, 2007)

Well Chris, a part was never stolen from us not allowing us to fill tanks, at most maybe the compressor was down for a day or two, so I do not know what you are referring. You were certainly never refused service at all, we honor every commitment we have made. 



As far as the mask goes we do not sell any "cheapy" masks that cost 25$, as that could dangerous to SCUBA divers. If you have a defective mask, we do not give refunds to used equipment but we certainly would have worked out a deal with store credit or a swap. You may have been refused a refund but we have not problem with trading in or any kind of negotiation.



As my understanding of the situation, strictly from memory was that Fritz offered to honor your card for free...never did we refuse to give you the service you paid for. That is just not true.



Finally, any issue or complaints should be taken up with the business and not on a public place such as this forum. 



call me I'm her till around 8 or 9 almost everynight.

934-8363


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## craasch210 (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm not sure who you are, but I'm assuming that you represent Bay breeze in some way. Everything I said is absolutely true. Every dive shop has "cheapy masks". The mask I purchased may have been $29, or $28, but that was not the point. Therre was nothing wrong with the mask, it just did not fit me properly. I certainly realize that you are under no obligation to replace the mask or give me a discount. I was just making a simple observation that at MBT they would have.... no questions asked. It's just a different level of service. MBT is willing to take little hits here and there in order to keep customers loyal. I believe it is why they have such a thriving business. 

As far as the stolen equipment, that can be verified by other divers who were in your shop that day and by your employees. Josh was at the counter that day, and I'm sure he will not lie about what happened. I have his number, if anyone would like to give him a call (dont think he works there anymore). The piece had something to do with how the machine mixed Nitrox.

I have no beef with you, you didnt do anything that was illegal or (shifty). I just was steering the guy in the right direction about where to buy equipment (in my opinion).

Chris

And as far as telling these thigs in a public forum..... I think this type of forum is exactly where we should tell things like this. It is how members of the dive/fishing community get the information out about who to do business with. It is how Just helps new people get the best bang for their buck, instead of having to learn it the hard way.


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## H2OArman (Oct 7, 2007)

HI Guys 

I'm h20armanand I live in crestview so its along drive for me to head to pensacola, to buy equipment but I just wanted to stick my to cents in. This is a forum a message board for people to post the experiances there adventures in fishing or spearfishing whatever in all the time that I have been reading and not posting I have come to the conclusion that the ONLY place I would goto in pensacola would be MBT Period. As for not saying your grievences on the message board Duh message board thats whats its for if you don't realize it, if you would just do the right thing in your business non of this would happen I to own a business in Crestview a computer retail store called net bypass what if I were to sale you a computer and then not warranty it when it broke what would you do.


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## craasch210 (Oct 4, 2007)

Hey! it's my favorite Mexican! How are ya man? When are we going to go swimming with the sharks again?


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## flynurse (Oct 9, 2007)

i have a 42biller that i don't shoot cause i never go. but i like it. 

now everybody quite ur bitchin!!!


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## Sniper Spear-It (Jan 16, 2008)

Back to the guns issue. I have a 42" biller and love it.but my newfavorite guns are my 60" sea hornet that actually stands 

76". this gun reloads faster than any other that i have ever owned.also if i had to reccomend something to all. stop using those shafts with screw on tips. I love the new hybrid shafts that are 5/16 and then the end is threaded to accept a powerhead if you like, but then it is sharpened to a point after the thread.the wings(4"wide) are through riveted.and the keeper ring is non removable. the shafts are about 75,which once you add it up is cheaper than buying everyhting seperate. plus the strenght of a solikd shaft greatly outweighs thtat small threaded piece for a tip to screw onto. ask anyone who has broken a shaft and most people will say it broke at the threads that hold the tip on. My 42" sea hornet is also this way. its total lenghtis 60". you can also order most gun with the solid wood gun. instead of two peices.all three of my guns have seperate butt and barrel and i have not had any problems with them. but if i was trying to find a weak spot after years of use i would probably guess that it would bethat union. but again i have never noticed any flex with mine.

Asfor everyone opinion on dive shops, MBT has always treated me great, and DIVE PROS has been equally helpful and very freindly. Those are the only places i have been and both receive my highest accelades(spelling?)

Sniper Spear-It


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## Clay-Doh (Oct 2, 2007)

Haa haa...Craash called Armondo a mexican again!

Since you been away chris...we now call him "Baby Castro"! Hes like a ruthless dictator! Hes oughtta control!


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## stichrunner (Mar 26, 2008)

i have a Riffe mid handle Hawaiianand it is quiet and shoots like its on a GPS trail. When i first got my riffe i did not like it,it is a little harder to load due to the shock cord attached to the bottom of the shaft witch you have to load threw the bands of the gun. you then have to use the shock card to hold the spear in place so it wont move around on you i have used it about 10 times now and I'm getting pretty good at loading it under water for taking more then one fish at a time. i have been told that a riffe is a one shot one kill gun but if you learn how to use and reload it you will love it. AS FOR ME IM SURGICAL WITH IT:moon

I have been inMBT one time and i cant complain the service was great i have also been in bay breeze once and i cant complain either. That's just my opinion. The gentlemen at MBT gave me a price on a full set of dive gear for a buddy of mine and i could not believe how cheap he was, I had to work on my guy for like 2 mouths and buy like 5 setsto get that price, i was very impressed with the service.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

If you shoot a Riffe regularly, you should be able to load it just as fast as a biller or jbl. It just takes pratice.


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## craasch210 (Oct 4, 2007)

Let me second the idea of the getting away from the spear tips. Some people use a break away tip. Break away tips (I think that's what they are called) are great for keeping fish on the shaft, but they didn't seem to be as easy to get out fo the fish underwater. I think they are the standard for big blue water fish though. 

I recently switched to the sea hornet/spearfishing specialties tip and love it. It is similar to the riffe tip with the exception that it has a retaining ring on the barb to allow you to pull the shaft out easier. In my experience, when I switched to the tips with the longer barbs, I had much better luck at keeping the fish on. 

Sniperspear it uses a similar tip, except that it is all one piece. There is no removable tip, the whole thing is just one piece of steel, sharpened at the end. I honestly have never seen a fish get off that rig since he began using it. I guess a disadvantage to that tip would be that if you severely damage the tip, you would have to replace the whole shaft instead of just the tip (but he's been fishing with it for a while now with out any problems. He just resharpens the tip and good to go.)

I hope some of this helps. I'm sure you can tell by the responses that there are many different preferences on types of guns. I will post up the next trip we take and you are welcome to come if there is room. I have three different guns ranging from 48' to 63'. You could come give them a try before you purchase one if you would like.

Chris


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## craasch210 (Oct 4, 2007)

Hey. I apparantly got the names mixed up when I posted about "Josh" from Bay breeze. Josh is "Fender" on the forum and also used to work at bay breeze. It was John I was speaking with (who is also a good guy). I have dove with both of them and got their names mixed up. Just wanted to post that in the interest of clarity. 

Sorry about that Josh. Dont know how I got that mixed up, except that you guys are both young surfer type duded. 

Chris


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks Chris, I was reading and confused because I didn't remember that happening when I worked there. Preciate it


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