# Offshore boat owners are elitists!



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

This week beginning on Wednesday the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council will discuss "Sector Separation". Sector separation will divide the private anglers from the charter for-hire and head boat operators. We are all recreational anglers, some just have their own boats, others need someone to take them to the reefs fish as recreation.

The division of the recreational anglers is the first step toward Catch Shares. Those in favor of Catch Shares know they cannot have Catch Shares in any part of the recreational fishery without separating the sectors. Sector Separation and Catch Shares will turn the fishery into a Cap & Trade commodity, a few winners of shares, and many losers. 

We must have an open fishery with fair and equitable regulations that sustain the fish and the fishermen is a better method of management. We believe management needs to abandon their efforts to promote Catch Shares and Sector Separation and focus their efforts and funding on improved stock assessments with more appropriate modeling that will account for the substantial growth of a fishery like Red Snapper.

The website listed below is where your comments can be made to the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council that will meet next week in Tampa. If you need further information to make your decision, the attached document is 36 pages of the proposed changes in the recreational fishery. If you fish for a regulated salt water fish in the Gulf, you are a stakeholder and you have a say in the outcome of the regulations. Please take a few moments and state your opinion on this matter.

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_m...Separation.php



Just so you have an idea of what is at stake.... 
according to the head of the organization www.charterfisherman.org seeking to Separate the Recreational Sector and divide private recreational anglers from the recreational anglers on charter for-hire and head boat operators ,people who own their own boats are Elitists. 

See below from a posting 
on the face book page of Capt Gary Jarvis: 

The American non boat owning public recreational fishermen and women who are not in this elite status like Capt Bob of being able to afford a 35 ft offshore fishing boat need to understand that THIER public access to the gulf of Mexico is being eroded by this attitude and effort from Organizations like RFA and CCA ( on Mr Byants page he spews the talking points verbatim ) all who want all of the resource for themselves. Capt Bob who does not own or operate a charter for hire vessel in the gulf of Mexico is only espousing the rhetoric of those associations who's members belong to the elitist demographic of offshore boat owners. The charter for hire industry is the Only public access to the Public's fair share of gulf of Mexico fisheries . The demographic of the recreational fisherman who utilizes The charter for hire industry ( aka Taxi and bus drivers ) is as wide spread as the make up of America itself. The Charter for hire industry is working to preserve the non boat owning recreational Fisherman's historical access by establishing a FISHERY MANGEMENT PLAN that keeps its access at a constant , improves to rebuilding of fish stocks, stops over fishing, and improves everyone's access both commercial,private boat rec and charter for hire sectors for generation to come.Make public comment in support of the sustaining of public access to Gulf of Mexico fisheries with reef fish admendment 39 at


Capt Gary Jarvis president CFA www.charterfisherman.org
F/V Back Down 2 www.backdown2.com
Follow us on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/CharterBoatBackDown2


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Everybody has hated Gary Jarvis for a long time, I want to know what other charter boats are members of his circle jerk club?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

bigrick said:


> Everybody has hated Gary Jarvis for a long time, I want to know what other charter boats are members of his circle jerk club?


Search here and you will find some-
http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?60094-My-facebook-battle-with-the-Separatist


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## Flounderpounder (Oct 3, 2007)

I'll bet a lot of "elitist" boat owners can't afford HIS boat! Bet many can't afford to charter a boat and crew weekly either. BS! Also, the 25 or whatever private boats (however many it takes to catch the fish he does on an annual basis) have a MUCH bigger impact on the local economy! I'm not against the charter industry at all, but he is spewing crap. Vent over.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I pretty much hate conflict in the political arena with respect to fishing rights.

That said, I can't sit back and watch while these type decisions are under consideration, knowing that some of the PFF members here would like to contact the Gulf Council if they only knew what was at stake on the agenda.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Below text is what I submitted to the following website. 

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_m...Separation.php




_I am against the "Sector Separation" scheme and the headboat "days at sea" pilot program. T__he "fish" allocation that is guaranteed to the headboat / charter boats will come from the current allocation of the private recreational sector. _

_What that means, is that once the federal government determines, however they do, since there is no reliable catch data, that recreational fishermen have exceeded their now even smaller species quota, they will not be able to fish for them on their own vessels. _

_They must then hire a head boat or charter boat operator to take them fishing. All to harvest fish allocated previously allocated to them. _

_This plan adds nothing to the amount of fish available and is in no way a fisheries management tool leading to increasing fish stocks or populations._

_It simply redistributes the fish. _

_What it accomplishes is vesting a small group (the concept is opposed by most charter fishermen) with a guaranteed harvest of fish. That harvest can then be traded ( bought and sold) to other fishermen, essentially making a commodity of a public resource which will no longer be accessible to the general public, except of course if they want to purchase all a portion of that paper quota._
_It is a cap and trade scheme which benefits no one but those holding the rights to the fish; the small group of charter boat owners who fish under both recreational and commercial licensure. _

_The federal government (NOAA Marine Fisheries) has failed, despite years of testimony by National Association of Charterboat Operators (NACO), Florida Guides Association, Coastal Conservation Association, Fishing Rights Alliance and every other state and national recreational fishing advocacy group to listen to our objections to this scheme and is moving ahead with this plan despite the hue and cry of the recreational fishermen of the nation._
_This is an attack by the federal government on recreational fishing and the ability and rights we all have to go out and catch a fish. _

Thank you,
MW


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## Half Hitched (Jun 4, 2012)

Just a couple of quick comments here. First, the " science" used to generate the regulations currently governing the recreational fishing industry is junk. Second, if we quit arguing and Bitching about who is and is not an elitist and actually address the issue that really affects all of us which is the deliberate attempt to legislate the recreational fishery out of existence then we would all be better off for it. Everyone knows that the commercial industry has deep pockets and a vested interest in more restrictive rules for Gulf fisheries because the more fish they are allowed to catch the more money they make. Same goes for charter operators and head boats. The concept of " sector separation" plays right into the hands of the people that wish to close the gulf to anyone other than the Patti fleet or any of the others that sell to restaurants or retail their catch. The people that have spent the money on " Offshore" boats knew what the regulations were when they wrote the check so why scream and ask for special treatment now? At the end of the day we are all sportsmen or at least we should be. As far as the statement about 90% of americans not owning a boat.. well most americans dont live on the gulf coast either. Having said that , I give plenty of space and all the courtesy to the father with his 2 kids in their 18' bay boat parked on a wreck 12 out on a calm day. At least he has his priorities in order.


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

I noticed not a single other destin captain is part of his circle jerk club, most are from other states or down south.


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Local Charters to Stay away from... 

Destin- BackDown 2
Orange Beach- Necessity, SeaSpray Charters, Reel Suprise Charters, Fairwaters 2 
Panama City- Anderson Brothers charter, Seminole Wind, 
LA- Steve Tomeny Charter


All Circle Jerkers.....


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Just so everyone knows who is "pulling the strings here" read this and note that if things continue to happen they way that they have been happening- private boat anglers will recieve - fish tags. You get to guess how may you will recieve. 




*Environmental Defense Fund*​


*Progress Report*​


*Catch shares are the default tool for managing fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico region*​


Over the past year, EDF has helped propel the commercial grouper/tilefish IFQ plan toward implementation, advanced the goal of catch share management for king mackerel and all remaining Gulf reef fish species, helped create essential management building blocks for catch shares in the for-hire sport fishing sector, and continued to support the nation's first industry alliance dedicated to promoting catch shares.
With the vital help of our industry partnerships, we recently ushered the grouper/tilefish IFQ plan to final passage by the Gulf Council in January (13-4 vote in favor). The Secretary of Commerce approved the plan in August and it is set to begin on January 1, 2010. However, higher than expected interactions with threatened sea turtles added a wrinkle to the program. In May, NMFS implemented an emergency closure of the longline reef fishery (of which the grouper/tilefish fishery is a part) to help resolve the problem. To keep fishermen on the water, we targeted converting 50 percent of the fleet, or approximately 50 vessels, to vertical, or ‘bandit’ gear, which has been proven to cause far fewer turtle interactions. EDF immediately launched a grant program for conversion of longline vessels to the vertical gear. To date, applications have been approved to convert 50 vessels, and 45 have converted. Offering the industry an option for staying in business has gone a long way to solidify relationships and trust with both fishermen and regulators.
Our work to promote catch share management for all Gulf reef fish continues to bear fruit. In June, at our urging, the Gulf Council established a new advisory panel to explore a catch share plan for all remaining reef fish, including three subgroups: commercial, recreational for-hire and private anglers. EDF and key allies have secured voting positions on the panel. We expect that the commercial sub-group will easily move forward with a plan to add all remaining reef fish (19 more species in total, including amberjack and gray triggerfish) into the existing IFQ program. The for-hire and private angler sub-groups will explore catch share and accountability measures for reef fish, including red snapper and grouper. The recreational discussions will undoubtedly be long, heated and challenging. Part of their *charge is to discuss intersector trading. *
*The work we are doing with a core group of for-hire recreational fishermen, whose movement we helped develop and continue to support, called SOS (Save Our Sector), will be important to continue to move catch shares forward in the for-hire sector of the recreational red snapper fishery. SOS now has over 200 supporters across all five Gulf states. This membership, which includes boat owners and crew members, reflects a significant portion of the 1,100 licenses in the for-hire fleet. The group’s work was a key factor in the Gulf Council’s October decision to **consider separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler sectors in the generic Annual Catch Limit/Accountability Measures amendment, which will be subject to public hearings in either December or January and likely voted on next summer. The amendment will form the foundation for a for-hire IFQ and harvest tags for private anglers. *
To demonstrate that vessel monitoring systems and electronic logbooks can work in for-hire recreational fisheries and provide the accountability necessary for catch shares, EDF is conducting a two-year pilot project with SOS. Internal discussions with NMFS officials indicate strong agency support for the SOS management plan, which includes use of electronic logbooks, and is resulting in meetings and dialogue among the group, NMFS officials and key members of Congress. While working with key for-hire leadership to develop an IFQ concept design for-hire catch share, we funded and worked with SOS leadership to launch an SOS web site to serve as a consistent source of information for interested parties. 
After almost three years, the red snapper IFQ program continues to meet high expectations. In NMFS’s recent “2008 Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper IFQ Annual Report” the agency states, “… overall, [there are] numerous improvements over the historical derby-style fishing conditions…” Overfishing is being reversed because fishermen are complying with the catch limit, the ratio of discards to landings has dropped by 68 percent, and illegal fishing is declining. The economic signs are also positive. NMFS documents dockside prices at 17 percent higher than pre-IFQ, while fishermen report an increase of 30 percent or more (some data collection problems are not yet fixed). Quota share prices rose by 37 percent from 2007 to 2008, reflecting the scarcity of red snapper and fishermen’s optimism for the future. The number of shareholders has declined by about 15 percent and a few vessels have exited the fishery, indicating that excess capacity is beginning to fall. There continues to be broad support for the program which is contributing to the expansion of catch shares to other Gulf and South Atlantic, fisheries. 
Of course, on-going improvements are needed; high priorities include additional at-sea monitoring, better economic data, and enhanced systems to detect and deter cheating. Fishermen, with new conservation incentives under IFQs, are working to combat one of the remaining discarding problems by seeking to accumulate a “snapper bycatch pool.” The pool would consist of a small reserve of quota that fishermen may access if they happen to catch red snapper beyond their quota, for example, while fishing for other reef fish. This will help take away the misguided justification (e.g., that a fisherman cannot find snapper shares) that a few fishermen still make for discarding snapper. The biggest threat to the continued success of the red snapper IFQ (and other Gulf IFQs) is the inability of regulators thus far to address overfishing by the recreational sector. This problem slows down stock rebuilding and could potentially diminish the positive conservation incentives instilled by catch shares. 

Our partner, University of British Columbia, has developed recommendations and is continuing to work with NMFS to better track reductions in red snapper bycatch under IFQ management, information that is critical for measuring success. They are also participating in a red snapper stock assessment update to ensure future annual catch limits are based on the best science. As we expected, NMFS’s recent report (see above) shows a significant improvement over the first year report, but we are working for a much more rigorous and comprehensive report in 2010. These reports are important because they will be used in NMFS’s and the Council’s planned five-year review in 2012. Another project partner, Texas Tech, has started its on-the-water research that will help identify habitat for red snapper spawners so that it can be protected to complement IFQs and speed recovery of the badly overfished stock.
EDF continues to encourage and support fishermen who provide the leadership to advance catch shares. The Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders' Alliance, which we helped create, continues to expand its membership of commercial and for-hire fishermen. Its executive director and members are serving on federal advisory panels, have met with members of Congress, and are engaged in helping guide other EDF Oceans regions through challenges. The Alliance is working with Chicago’s Shedd Aquarium “Rite Bite” program and others to move red snapper off of environmentalists’ “fish to avoid” lists by _featuring_ red snapper in eco-friendly restaurants. The program has also received funding and approval to initiate a pre-certification process for Marine Stewardship Council certification. 
Finally, EDF has successfully urged the Gulf Council to establish an advisory panel to explore catch share management for the king mackerel fishery. King mackerel is jointly managed by the Gulf, South Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic Councils. If completed, this will be the first-ever catch share for a coastal pelagic species.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

bigrick said:


> Everybody has hated Gary Jarvis for a long time, I want to know what other charter boats are members of his circle jerk club?


Do whatever is in your power to not support these Charter Captains because they are thying to throw you under the buss as a Recreational Fisherman or Woman. *Do not I repeat do not* recommend these to anyone for a trip.


So here is a list of those operators pushing for sector separation and looking for SPECIAL TREATMENT form the government.

Randy Boggs: 27267 Perdido Beach Blvd. Orange Beach, AL 36561(251) 747-4171
Steve Tomeny: 119 Constantin Golden Meadow, LA 70357 (985) 637-0943
Chad Haggert: PO Box 3008, Clearwater, Florida 33767(727) 446-1653
Johnny Williams: Williams Party Boats, Inc. Pier 19 Galveston, Texas 77550 (409) 762-8808
Cliff Cox: P.O. Box 5037 Destin, FL 32540 (850) 259-2617
Eric Spaulding: Clearwater Marine Enterprises, Inc. DBA Queen Fleet Deep Sea Fishing P.O. Box 3746 Clearwater, FL 33767 727-410-8600
Richard J. Castellano: Gulfstar Ventures LLC 607 Island Dr Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 727-204-2601
Ed Simms: 5405 Ornacoe Ave. Orange Beach, AL 36561 251-747-6712
Tom Steber: Zeke's Landing Marina Perdido Beach Blvd Orange Beach, AL 36561 251-981-4007

Supporters of sector separation but not listed on the special permit application
Gary Jarvis: Charter Boat Back Down 2; Destin/Fort Walton Beach, Florida Area
Captain John (Johnny Williams)
Gulf Winds II, SanRoc Cay Marina (Randy and Susan Boggs); Orange Beach, AL
Reel Surprise, SanRoc Cay Marina (Randy and Susan Boggs); Orange Beach, AL
Zeke's Lady - Zeke's Landing Marina (Tom Steber, Representative); Orange Beach, AL
Outcast - Flora-Bama (Eddie Sims); Orange Beach, AL
M/V Southerner (Steve Tomeny); Port Fourchon, LA (convicted of fishery violations)
M/V Louisiana (Steve Tomeny); Port Fourchon, LA (convicted of fishery violations)
Super Queen (Eric Spaulding); Clearwater, FL
Gulf Queen (Eric Spaulding); Clearwater, FL
Double Eagle II (Chad Haggert); Clearwater, FL
Double Eagle III (Chad Haggert); Clearwater, FL
Gulf Star (Richard Castellano); Tarpon Springs, FL
Sweet Jody (Cliff Cox); Destin, FL


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

the point of all this is not name calling. the point is to notify you as a recreational angler, so that you know that you know that that if you are against recreational catch shares and sector separation, that you have the opportunity to voice your opposition for the gulf council to consider at the following web link:


http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/comment_forms/RF%20Amendment%2039%20-%20Sector%20Separation.php

If you are for recreational catch shares and sector separation you have the right to voice your opinion as well and I recommend you do so.


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## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

Im confused...


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Chad 

what is your question?


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Who is Gary Jarvis?


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> Chad
> 
> what is your question?


Can you put this in layman's terms?

Or correct me if I'm wrong... Certain Charter boat captains are trying to take the recreational quota of XXXlbs per year will be divided into "For Hire" and "General Public" sectors? Of course with more weight going to the charters? 

I just skimmed thru this, but the language is a little confusing to a simple minded person like me so I figured to just ask...


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## Bill Braskey (Apr 7, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> the point of all this is not name calling. the point is to notify you as a recreational angler, so that you know that you know that that if you are against recreational catch shares and sector separation, that you have the opportunity to voice your opposition for the gulf council to consider at the following web link:
> 
> 
> http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/comment_forms/RF Amendment 39 - Sector Separation.php
> ...


Thanks, Mark! My response was sent. I suggest that everyone do the same.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Magic Mike said:


> Can you put this in layman's terms?
> 
> Or correct me if I'm wrong... Certain Charter boat captains are trying to take the recreational quota of XXXlbs per year will be divided into "For Hire" and "General Public" sectors? Of course with more weight going to the charters?
> 
> I just skimmed thru this, but the language is a little confusing to a simple minded person like me so I figured to just ask...


here is an old cca viewpoint on sector separation. I am not a cca member but i think they got it right here:
*Wednesday, November 3, 2010*

*Message From Coastal Conservation Association *



At a time when there seem to be fewer and fewer opportunities for anglers to pursue fish offshore, a proposal known as Sector Separation threatens to make the situation even worse by making recreational anglers compete against each other.

Sector Separation is being promoted for federally managed fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico (for example, red snapper and grouper). It calls for the recreational sector poundage quota for a species to be split into two different categories: *For Hire/Charter* and *Private Boat Recreational*.


As it stands now, fisheries managers divide harvest quotas between commercial boats and recreational anglers. Under the Sector Separation model, managers would assign quotas to commercial boats, private boat anglers and charter/for-hire boats, leaving private recreational anglers with a greatly diminished piece of the quota.


Coastal Conservation Association believes there are fundamental management problems with Sector Separation as it pits one segment of recreational anglers against another. 


CCA is opposed to Sector Separation because:



Sector Separation will create imbalances in distribution of fish among anglers fishing from private boats and those fishing on charter vessels. 


Sector Separation will create deep political conflicts within states as decision-makers grapple with how to spread fishing opportunities between private and charter sectors. 


State fisheries directors will have to seriously consider how Sector Separation will influence the growth in licensed anglers and fishing opportunities in their states.
 

Sector Separation will result in a shorter public season for most offshore fishing. Private boat anglers will often be unable to pursue many species unless they pay a charter/for-hire vessel.


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## Tyee Dave (Oct 24, 2007)

I own a Cape 19 with one motor (bought in new in 2005). I had to get the bank to loan me the money on the extended plan just to be able to make the payments. I fish offshore maybe 10 days a year now (if that). My question is: Am I part of the elite? If I am, I sure don't feel that way.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Estimates vary on what the split in pounds would be in terms of a percentage total for head boats/charter boats versus private boat owners in the red snapper fishery if the current recreational Total allowable catch was to be split into two parts. Minimum I have seen requested by the head boats/charter boats leading this movenemt is 51% of the poundage of red snapper. 

Meaning that private boat owners would get the remaining 49% or 1.7Million pounds using 2012 figures for red snapper. Using the 1.7 pound million figure and given an average weigth of the fish at 6 lbs it equals 287,000 snapper to be split between private boat owning snapper fisherman in the Gulf states between Texas - Florida.

Would imagine the plan is to conduct a lottery to catch these 287,000 fish. Might have better odds of getting a mule deer tag in Colorado than getting a tag to catch a red snapper in the future when competing among gulf state anglers in a lottery. I don't know. I just have a problem with a tourist on the back of a charter boat having the right to catch a snapper when I can't even though I may be fishing in Florida State waters.

Rest assured if "they" split us in two for red snapper they will want their poundage of all reef fish grouper, trigger, mingos, grunts and catfish for that matter in the future with Mahi and wahoo to come.


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## GASeminole (Aug 15, 2011)

Tyee Dave said:


> I own a Cape 19 with one motor (bought in new in 2005). I had to get the bank to loan me the money on the extended plan just to be able to make the payments. I fish offshore maybe 10 days a year now (if that). My question is: Am I part of the elite? If I am, I sure don't feel that way.


*e·lit·ist*

  /ɪˈlitɪst eɪˈli‐/ Show Spelled[ih-lee-tist ey-lee‐] Show IPA 
adjective 

1. (of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society: elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else. 

2. catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions: Even at such a small, private college, Latin and Greek are under attack as too elitist. 

______________________

So because you have made sacrifices (financially and otherwise) to have this pleasure in your life, you are now vilified by others who did not. I agree, it is an unfair label to receive. 

This is just another example of class warfare that the gov't is creating to pit the masses against each other rather than unite against the source of the issue (mis-guided and excessive Regulation)

Haves vs. the have nots, etc.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

NM.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> NM.


*COLUMN: It's time to separate our fishing sectors*




February 15, 2011 4:44 PM 
ShareThis| Print Story | E-Mail Story

By Gary Jarvis, Captain’s Log 

The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council met last week in Gulfport, Miss., and discussed several important management reforms for recreational fishing, including a concept called Sector Separation. Such proposals seek to stabilize struggling charter fishing businesses and increase fishing time for anglers.
Sector Separation would follow scientific and legal suggestions to manage valuable Gulf fish by the groups that catch them: commercial fishermen, charter fishermen and anglers.
Hundreds of charter fishermen have expressed support for the Sector Separation over the last three years.
Existing regulations — like short fishing seasons — leave very little time to take customers fishing and are killing Gulf charter businesses. The charter for-hire sector needs its own fishery management plan in order to modernize the way they run their businesses. A failing charter fishing industry hurts local economies, families of fishermen, and limits fishing time for anglers.
Currently, charter fishermen and anglers are managed together and share the same pool of fish. By taking responsibility for their own industry through Sector Separation, charter fishermen can improve how they count and report the fish they catch and develop management systems that provide more flexibility for their businesses.
It makes good sense that the different fishing groups would be managed separately, because they each operate very differently. Commercial fishermen provide food to Americans; charter fishermen run tourism-driven businesses that provide anglers the ability to go fishing; and private boat recreational anglers fish on their own for fun.
Charter businesses take millions of anglers fishing in the Gulf of Mexico each year and many customers spend a considerable amount of money to travel, lodge and eat in the area. With charter for hire businesses operating under Sector Separation, recreational anglers will still catch and keep all the fish.
We commend the council for considering Sector Separation. The council should move swiftly to adopt separate sectors for charter fishermen and their recreational anglers in all Gulf fisheries.

Gary Jarvis is a Destin fisherman and president for the Charter Fisherman’s Association, _a group of Gulf of Mexico fishermen who want improve the health of the fishery and charter businesses, in order to provide more fishing time for anglers. Visit __www.charterfisherman.org__ for more information._


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Odd argument.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

The above article sounds innocent enough but since the government doesn't know how many fisherman are privately fishing for snapper or how many snapper their are in the gulf of mexico how would the government know how to divide the fish fairly?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> Odd argument.


which?


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> which?


Jarvis's. I edited to NM because I wanted to go back and look at it again.

Seems to me that the relationship between parts of the charter sector and a normal Joe like me (=running a boat a couple times a week or month) is becoming kind of hostile?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> Jarvis's. I edited to NM because I wanted to go back and look at it again.
> 
> Seems to me that the relationship between parts of the charter sector and a normal Joe like me (=running a boat a couple times a week or month) is becoming kind of hostile?


Only certain members of the charter industry are fully aligned with Mr. Jarvis. 200-300 of the 1100 permited charter boats at the most. 

Some of the biggest proponents have a dual permit in that they run a commercial business and a charter business. Some others are hoping for a pay day.

Imagine if you will in the future a time that "they" the captains pushing for "sector separation" gain the right to trade snapper quota in pounds from the commercial side to the charter side of their business. 

For example, a snapper caught commercially is worth around $3.00 - $4.00 a pound commercially at the dock. But if I am a charter captain and I am taking the University of Alabama Athletic Director and some elite Univeristy of Alabama alumni on a charter trip, and they want to catch and keep 200 lbs of snapper, then if I am able to procure some commercial snapper quota to use in my charter business I could pass the cost of the snapper quota along to the customer and charge the University of Alabama group chartering the boat $10.00?? a pound for the rights to the 200 lbs of snapper that they catch and keep. 


A recreationally caught snapper is worth more than a commercially caught snapper in terms of economic benefit. 

You are a smart guy so as you can see it goes on from there the possibilities are endless. Sort of a cap and trade scenario in the fishery. 


Bottom line you and I if this goes through quite possibly will end up paying for the right to catch and keep fish that we now fish for and catch free during a very limited season.


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## Tyee Dave (Oct 24, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> Seems to me that the relationship between parts of the charter sector and a normal Joe like me (=running a boat a couple times a week or month) is becoming kind of hostile?


Yeah that!


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Filet and Release solves the problem if you are trying to justify the economics of spending $300 on a fishing trip to get to keep 12 snappers....

Jarvis is an odd character and is only looking out for himself. 

No matter what you or I do the real elitists (those makeing the laws) have their own agenda. This is coming from someone that is under 30 years old and has no faith in any type of government regulation where the numbers do not make sense.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Response sent, hope it helps.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

sniperpeeps said:


> Response sent, hope it helps.


Thanks. 

I am about done here. 

Either way if you are for sector separation or against it, since the meeting begins this Wednesday, you need to get your comments in...


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Can somebody tell me more about Jarvis? Relatively new to the area, but he seems kind of notorious. PMs welcome if you don't want to post it here.


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## guam_bomb80 (Nov 17, 2010)

Comment sent. I feel it wont matter though... They are going to stick it to us rec. fisherman anyway they can.


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## marcuswon (Apr 5, 2010)

post mine against it.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Didn't post mine, don't think im going to have to. See yall on the water when it calms down enough for ya


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Didn't post mine, don't think im going to have to. See yall on the water when it calms down enough for ya


It's bad enough that you are being selffish and trying to take what belongs to everyone for your own economic benefit, but for you to come on here and post smart allic remarks throwing it back into the rec guys face says a lot about your lack of class... Karma Sir, Come talk to us in a few years when it bites you in the rear :thumbsup:


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Didn't post mine, don't think im going to have to. See yall on the water when it calms down enough for ya


Stop by to rub it in Tom? Looks like the table is set and the years of work by edf behind the scenes is about to pay whatever dividends that sector separation will bring for the charter industry.

By the way some would consider it bad form to fish taxpayer funded reefs with your charters given your stance on sector separation. Seems like most days I am around the I-10 bridge rubble I see you on it running a 1/2 day charter.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Didn't post mine, don't think im going to have to. See yall on the water when it calms down enough for ya


:thumbdown:....


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## Bill Braskey (Apr 7, 2010)

What a jerk.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

LOL, yall are too serious, really? I fish the trolling alley all the time and the Charter for hire guy got them out there with the Red Snapper World Championship. Sooooo many haters on here, yall need to lighten up. I love how its so easy for a guy like me to light yall up, way too easy.


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## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

Are the inshore guides without permits counting towards recreational quota? This might hurt them.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

chad403 said:


> Are the inshore guides without permits counting towards recreational quota? This might hurt them.


Tom and his fellow supporters don't care about "them" or us, or anyone but themselves. The original name of their plan was "Save our Selves". It was changed after they realized it didn't project the best opinion of their group. As long as they continue to make money they are happy


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

How could it hurt a inshore guide, they fish inshore.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> How could it hurt a inshore guide, they fish inshore.


Tom you know good and well that inshore guides also snapper fish....


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## Bill Braskey (Apr 7, 2010)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> How could it hurt a inshore guide, they fish inshore.


How stupid is this statement? When all recreational anglers are basically pushed inshore thus pressuring the near coastal species, you can bet that more change will be in the air.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> Tom you know good and well that inshore guides also snapper fish....


Not this week they haven't!


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Not this week they haven't!


Ummmmm... ... Nearly every guide in Pensacola can get a limit of Snapper in the bay on a 4 hour trip. 

Secondly, what does it matter if they couldn't get in the gulf this week? What about next week or the week after? Come on man...if you are going to argue your point do better than that. I have to get up early in the morning...Make this worth my while...:thumbsup:


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Point, did you see the Pyramid? Thats what Im talkin about!


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Point, did you see the Pyramid? Thats what Im talkin about!


So you are saying since you can get out on a rougher day than a smaller boat can, you deserve all the snapper? Brilliant :thumbsup:


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

No the hotties Jon the Hotties, hell with the snapper I will be fishing everyday in July too.


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