# Lionfish traps.



## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

Disclaimer: I have never seen a live Lionfish.

I have, however watched a bunch of videos. I'll bet I can build traps that would catch the heck out of them and not catch much of anything else. 

I don't expect you'd need bait or any fancy cones or gates. Just drop them down around your structure and pull them up later. Siimple to build about 3X3 with chicken wire Lionfish look like something that stone crabbers could target during closed season.


----------



## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

From what I understand, they show up in traps in south Florida. I thought I remember they were lobster traps, but it may be stone crab traps. Lobster trapping is illegal in Florida isn't it.


----------



## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Lobster trapping is defintely legal in Florida*

It is a huge industry in South Florida.

Years ago I made a bunch of traps to catch Bulldozers. I caught them in quantity.


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I may be wrong but if I recall correctly getting fish traps banned in Florida was a long and drama filled ordeal. I think passing a law to allow fish traps for Lion Fish might just open the door for the pro fish trap groups, same with the long liners and the gill net groups.


----------



## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Kim said:


> I may be wrong but if I recall correctly getting fish traps banned in Florida was a long and drama filled ordeal. I think passing a law to allow fish traps for Lion Fish might just open the door for the pro fish trap groups, same with the long liners and the gill net groups.


So pinfish traps are illegal?


----------



## haulinboat (Sep 12, 2011)

captken said:


> It is a huge industry in South Florida.
> 
> Years ago I made a bunch of traps to catch Bulldozers. I caught them in quantity.



What's a Bulldozer?


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Dang if I didn't miss the obvious! SouthAlabamaSlayer hit the nail on the head! Bait fish traps could be the answer if we can figure out what bait would attract the Lion Fish. I wonder if they would swim in just to check it out? The only problem I can see is that any bait trap that becomes lost or abandoned will become a death trap for anything that swims/climbs into it and can't swim/climb back out.


----------



## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

haulinboat said:


> What's a Bulldozer?


Type of lobster. 

I think traps are illegal for reef fish?


----------



## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Caddy Yakker said:


> Type of lobster.
> 
> I think traps are illegal for reef fish?


What about ones made with just small enough openings for lion fish? There aren't many reef fish that can fit in a hole that size.


----------



## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Ok, I did remember correctly lol (that's getting harder these days). 
I think the guys PFF handle is chefparrothead. He said he had a decent source in south Florida that was/is catching them in his lobster traps.


----------



## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

Has been some work done on trap design by fishermen in the keys. Check ecreef.org and review the presentations at the Lionfish summit from several months ago. Might want a different design up here where the LF are highly concentrated on ARs. Important work----go for it!!!


----------



## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

Check out this link for a prototype trap design. Watching the LF behavior on the videos, it appears they like to get inside structure so bait might not even be necessary----need a lot of work on this but I think it has great potential. The LF summit meeting showed a quite high catch rate in traps. 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/02/3428635/new-trap-may-fight-invasive-lionfish.html


----------



## kiefersdad (Apr 26, 2013)

*Ghost traps*

For over twenty years I used traps to catch lobster and fish while living in Massachusetts. I fished commercially and we used hog rings that were made of iron so they would rust out in a few months depending on the salinity of the water and the amount of times they were hauled from the ocean. We regularly would re ring the traps to allow our "ghost panel" to stay in place keeping our catch inside. However if a trap or traps were to become lost after a short time the iron rings would rust out and the panel would fall down causing the trap to be ineffective at holding any fish, lobster or crab. The key to the ghost panel was to be sure the ghost panel was ringed on top so the panel would fall. A ring on the bottom does not allow the panel to fall upward so the fish or other creature doesn't see a way to freedom. I suggest any trap made regardless of intended target have these "ghost panels" installed. Using the biggest opening wire mesh or net would also be a consideration to allow for non target species to escape. Also a small parachute or net on top sometimes helps stabilize descent to be sure the trap lands upright. You could even use a sealed piece of PVC pipe to act as the float. A long 2 cents but I hate to see our local native species take a hit from good intentions.


----------



## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

I feel like the ability to run lion fish traps may make the commercial fishery of them worth it.


----------



## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Bulldozer+ Shovel nosed lobster*

The little critters that hang upside down under ledges and inside wrecks.

Great eating.

My idea for a trap would be something that looks kinda like what they are congregated around. If they are tightly congregated around a reef, you ought to be able to knock a heck of a dent in their population.

I don't think they would even try to swim out of an open top box where anything else would.


----------



## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

Captken, if there is a problem with legality of traps for lionfish, I'd be happy to work with you on new legislation. I can't imagine a limited exception solely for lionfish following certain design criteria would meet too much resistance.


----------



## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I just saying that if Capt Ken has an idea on this Lion Fish removal by trap, then with all the McGuiver's on the forum here have a brainstorming session, build a prototype, evaluate it, tweek as necessary, field test and then present to the powers that be. It would be pretty hard to shoot down a concept that has not only been developed, tested and proven successful.


----------



## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

haulinboat said:


> What's a Bulldozer?


aka Slipper Lobster









Anyway- the trap idea, if correctly designed and deployed, sounds like a great idea- possibly a practical approach to thinning the populations some.


----------



## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*I just threw the trap idea out to get somebody interested.*

We've gotta do something. As far as I know, the problem is not serious in our area yet but that might be because they are easily caught and eaten by Goliath Grouper of which we have a great supply. Lionfish would be super easy prey for even a small Goliath. A 500 pounder could eat 2 dozen per day, probably more.

Five hundred pound Jewfish are a dime a dozen here in water as shallow as 10 feet. Three years ago I saw 11 Jewfish under one tripod marker in less than 20 feet. None of these fish were under 250# or so. Betcha there were no Lionfish there but I caught Cobia and Gag Grouper there the same day.

As easy as Lionfish are to spear, I can't imagine them being hard to trap.

As far as regs go, it would be simple enough to ban the possession of any fish except Lionfish on a boat fishing traps. If a market for Lionfish exists, commercial fishermen would be happy to jump on it. It isn't easy to be a commercial fisherman these days.


----------



## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

captken said:


> We've gotta do something. As far as I know, the problem is not serious in our area yet but that might be because they are easily caught and eaten by Goliath Grouper of which we have a great supply. Lionfish would be super easy prey for even a small Goliath. A 500 pounder could eat 2 dozen per day, probably more.
> 
> Five hundred pound Jewfish are a dime a dozen here in water as shallow as 10 feet. Three years ago I saw 11 Jewfish under one tripod marker in less than 20 feet. None of these fish were under 250# or so. Betcha there were no Lionfish there but I caught Cobia and Gag Grouper there the same day.
> 
> ...


Sounds like an awesome kickstarter.com project!


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

Check it--
Making a trap is easy. The problem is making a trap that will catch NO by-catch,only way it would get approved. Also you can't put them on any structure,noaa and dnr won't allow. 
Now who's going to fish for them?? Commercial fisherman? You going to tell the insurance company?? From what I understand that's a big hurdle to get over. Some company's won't cover anyone. So ok that works out and you go fish for them. What's the market going to be?? I sell them,I sell the H*** out of them in SC. I've created a market here,I've built up my guests taste for it. I know what I pay for them and I bet you we aren't close at all in price. I've seen some numbers,and no way. 
And yes Lobsterman catch lions in their traps as by-catch. As of bait or atleast bait used by lobsterman,trigger fish,which is another thing. A lobsterman buddy of mine in the keys who gets 80#s of lions in his traps daily told me he uses triggerfish for bait and in his word " because ppl in Florida don't eat it" this just blows my mind. I bought lions from him and one of the first pictures he text me was a cooler full of lions and a few trigger and I asked him about selling them. Told me it was his lobster bait. That's just nuts to me 
Anyway until we get ppl in the water none of it matters. So many want to help but no one does anything. Me I'm a chef I serve lions as long as weather permits,and my local guys are out getting them for me. So many just don't want to deal with. Plus here it's a 4 hr boat ride just to get to the lions,not like Fla. But are fish are monsters. 
Thanxs


----------



## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

Chefparrothead said:


> Check it--
> Making a trap is easy. The problem is making a trap that will catch NO by-catch,only way it would get approved. Also you can't put them on any structure,noaa and dnr won't allow.
> Now who's going to fish for them?? Commercial fisherman? You going to tell the insurance company?? From what I understand that's a big hurdle to get over. Some company's won't cover anyone. So ok that works out and you go fish for them. What's the market going to be?? I sell them,I sell the H*** out of them in SC. I've created a market here,I've built up my guests taste for it. I know what I pay for them and I bet you we aren't close at all in price. I've seen some numbers,and no way.
> And yes Lobsterman catch lions in their traps as by-catch. As of bait or atleast bait used by lobsterman,trigger fish,which is another thing. A lobsterman buddy of mine in the keys who gets 80#s of lions in his traps daily told me he uses triggerfish for bait and in his word " because ppl in Florida don't eat it" this just blows my mind. I bought lions from him and one of the first pictures he text me was a cooler full of lions and a few trigger and I asked him about selling them. Told me it was his lobster bait. That's just nuts to me
> ...


Chef, what would you suggest for those of us that can't create demand like you can?


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

Why can't you create the demand?? If your a chef and put it on your special menu for a few days and do research and give server training. Building a market isn't a problem. If your a fisherman I suggest you let a restaurant or two try a few free. And let them try it. Bet they will be calling for more. General public knows the problem and are willing to try.


----------



## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

tkh329 said:


> Chef, what would you suggest for those of us that can't create demand like you can?


I have called Joe Pattis a few times and asked if they sell them, they say NO.
But I still call every now and then.
Maybe someday, they will say yes.


----------



## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

I am working on creating a market in destin. If I can get my company on board, I will get my SPL and build the market in this area. Maybe badazzchef and myself can get this area fired up about it. I have contacts on Pensacola beach that would get behind it if I/we can get the ball rolling. Thanks to badazzchef for taking the first step in our area.


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

So the first time we served Lionfish was at a sustainable seafood dinner we held. It was a four course meal made up of 4 local sustainable species in our area. We served lions not because they are sustainable but because they are part of the "overfishing" problem. We approached it like " we know this isn't sustainable but this a non native species that is eating up all of our sustainable fish and something needs to be done about it"". We had about 60 ppl or so at the dinner. Next day had 3 phone calls asking when we would have more and 2 emails. Best way to start it up. Hit the restaurants that consider themselves a sustainable seafood restaurant. I will say also I don't know work at a fine dining place. We are a mid level sustainable seafood restaurant but who is known for serving fresh off the boat local seafood. These are the places that will create the demand. When the middle class,all of us, get a taste for it then you will see a switch. Trust me hit places like that up who you know serve FOB local seafood and if the chef has any talent and cares at all about the ocean. He will serve it quickly and it will sell out faster. I can move 300lbs in a week, no one I'm the only one who can do it.


----------



## badazzchef (Oct 1, 2007)

If y'all haven't heard by now...we are all over it!

http://youtu.be/tUStQ1k7q7Q


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

That's great chef. Any way to get the word out. BUT you should be charging for Lionfish shouldn't be giving it away,it's all about your food cost. Lol. Hey I hear their may be a Lionfish fishery opening in Fla,PCola area I believe.


----------



## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Great Thread!
There are legal hurdles to cross to even TEST a trap here in the gulf.....but with the buzz that is starting about the lionfish - our government officials ARE starting to realize that they have to be on the right side of this thing.
The Most important areas to trap in will be deeper waters - 120' to 500' of water.
The lionfish are living and breeding there...and divers cannot do anything about it.
The price per pound is going to have to be pretty high for it to be profitable.
Keep at the brainstorming!!! I know its possible!


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

For restaurants to make money. Price per pound can't be high. I disagree. Lions have no fishery and are invasive. Getting rid of something bad for the environment can't cost an arm and a leg, ppl will be turned off by it. Besides $14lb fish turns into a $30 meal
Somewhere, that's restaurant reality that nobody wants to understand. Everyone is so caught up on the " they are exotic, they have venomous spines"". Get over it. That isn't enough reason to charge more. If lions are more expensive then snapper etc. No chefs including me will buy, won't be able to make any money. We need a fishery, we need this in the market, we need to turn diners onto this. Not drive them away cuz it costs too much. 
And chef watched the video of course and just wanted to say I've found a French pan works best for seating lions


----------



## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Trap design*

Nothing but a cube with 5 sides completely covered with wire and the top side only partially closed--say 50% open. If the trap is hauled top-up, Lionfish inside will probably stay there. I can't imagine a Snapper staying inside after the trap starts up. Actually, I can't imagine most any fish cohabitating with Lionfish.

As I mentioned in the original post, I have never even seen a live Lionfish. I'd like to hook a live Lionfish on and drop it down here where I know there is a big Jewfish. If Jewfish eat them it would be game on in seconds. I know a 5# Jack Crevalle is eaten instantly.


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

Yes big jewfish will eat them. Traps I don't think will ever be effective. Too much By catch and I bet BsBs would live in a trap with lions not worried about it. This is where we run into problems. Nobody is going allow a trap that isn't species specific,I know a guy down in Mexico delvolping a trap that can detect and separate species. Idea is fish swims up and the door won't open unless its computer chip tags it as a Lionfish. We shall see. Spears seem to be the best way. This chef will take all you can bring me.


----------



## badazzchef (Oct 1, 2007)

Chefparrothead said:


> That's great chef. Any way to get the word out. BUT you should be charging for Lionfish shouldn't be giving it away,it's all about your food cost. Lol. Hey I hear their may be a Lionfish fishery opening in Fla,PCola area I believe.


Yes that is me...until licensing and HAACP are in place the Gulf Coast Lionfish and myself are giving it away!


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

Sooo you as a chef is buying fish to give away until you can open a fishery?? You mean getting a diver to catch lions for restaurant or to turn around and sel in the market??


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

Are buying ,not is. Lol.


----------



## panhandleslim (Jan 11, 2013)

captken said:


> Disclaimer: I have never seen a live Lionfish.
> 
> I have, however watched a bunch of videos. I'll bet I can build traps that would catch the heck out of them and not catch much of anything else.
> 
> I don't expect you'd need bait or any fancy cones or gates. Just drop them down around your structure and pull them up later. Siimple to build about 3X3 with chicken wire Lionfish look like something that stone crabbers could target during closed season.


Ding, ding, ding....finally, somebody is starting to make sense of how to attack this problem. 

If these traps can be designed to perform efficiently to catch an invasive specie, all the rest of these issues are just details to be worked out. 

Attacking this problem requires weapon(s). When we have them, we use our 'Yankee' or 'Southern' ingenuity to fine tune the efficiency and eliminate the roadblocks; if that includes the economics of the implementation lets work out the numbers. Some of you are well on the way and I applaud that; now it just needs the heavy lifting to start in order to see it through.


----------



## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

give some to the high end sushi restaurants...Better leave the restaurant and head out and get another load....


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

Traps==by catch. Nobody will allow. Lobsterman in fla have been getting them for yrs in their nets, I know one lobsterman who gets 80#s daily in his lobster traps. A species specific trap is being worked on by a friend but it's going to take time. BSB love hiding. That's the big problem and placing traps close enuff to be effective but not on a reef harming it. That's counter productive. Like feeding fish meal to chix. Stupid


----------



## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Here is the actual presentation that was given at the FWC lionfish summit on the lobster trap fishery catching lionfish: 

http://www.ecreef.org/Lionfish_Page...RSPECTIVE ON LIONFISH IN THE FLORIDA KEYS.pdf 

I will tell you that the FWC did not seem very interested in persuing the trap idea. I believe it was because of the by-catch issue. 

Here's just a thought: if a single lionfish can eat 65 of our native fish in a single feeding, is it worth sacrificing a few native fish in traps to remove 500 pounds of lionfish? Given the lionfish's reproductive habits, I would think so.

Personally, I think we need to start using every weapon in our bag. Divers are our best hope in divable depths and traps are our only hope in the deep water... right now.


----------



## Chefparrothead (Oct 16, 2013)

The lobsterman I been talking about--Gary Nichols. He's a good dude. 
Creating the market---coastal South Carolina<<<<this guy<<. 
And like I keep saying by catch and I know this only cuz I applied for a grant to use a trap to do this very same thing. And noaa,dnr told him no worried about by-catch "the endangered" Black Sea Bass,which 60lbs showed up fresh off the boat along with Bliners 160#s lions. As well as possible damage done to reefs,so. He stopped perusing. I know this a PCola site but I'm sure their are ppl on here like me from everywhere. What needs to happen since this is kind new to you guys in gulf,atleast how bad it got so quickly,that info needs to be shared from South Atlantic Divers ,commercial guys. Any JAX comm guys reading this,I hear there are 30 com dive boats taking a chance.


----------



## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Bringing this one back to see if anybody has an idea.*

Have there been any advances in catching/trapping these things the past 3 years. They have become fairly common here.


----------

