# Rings for catching bait



## GWally

I am too far away to get to the piers (and 2 tied up with projects for now) but, "way back when", I was in flight training at Whiting Field (flying "Real Airplanes" T-28B and C, not those "wimpy Alfas") and I'd hit the beaches on the weekends. Didn't have tackle with me but, I made many visits to the piers just to hang out. I remember seeing a rig that I tried to duplicate (never successfully) that was amazingly effective at catching bait fish. 
Basically, it looked like a series in wire rings with I think a thin length of fabric running through them. The guys would dangle them off the pier (like using a sabiki) fish would swim in and get hung up in the rings (why they didn't just swim through, I have no clue).
Are things like that still used or is a Sabiki rig the way to go?
Someday, I plan to get out there again since the fish you guys pull in is just mind blowing.
Is this worth pursuing or have newer methods put this out in the boneyards like my beloved T-28's? (was a year or 2 too late to fly Spad's).
Thanks


----------



## KingCrab

Dont think there leagle anymore . Something about being considered an entangling devise. Ribbon rigs. I havent seen one used in many years . They did well on Alewyes.


----------



## Charlie2

*Pilchard Rings*



KingCrab said:


> Dont think there leagle anymore . Something about being considered an entangling devise. Ribbon rigs. I havent seen one used in many years . They did well on Alewyes.


Illegal. Buy and use a sabiki. It works well. JMHO C2


----------



## Chris V

You can still buy and use them in Alabama. I still prefer sabikis though. You can get a wider variety of baits with them


----------



## flukedaddy

KingCrab said:


> Dont think there leagle anymore . Something about being considered an entangling devise. Ribbon rigs. I havent seen one used in many years . They did well on Alewyes.


^^this. I havent seen bait like there used to be back in the mid 80s out at the old pier, it used to be amazing , one year there were tons of gogle eyes. Never saw them come back nor have I seen the alewyes like they used to be.
Sabiki, snatch rig, or good ole gold hook rig sometimes with some chum hanging on it.


----------



## BrandonFox

Theres still a couple on Okaloosa that use them. They are illegal though... I wouldnt try it.


----------



## BlueH20Fisher

Only the ones made from mono are illegal, wire is fine. In tarpon season they're worth their weight in gold...on a pier.


----------



## Ocean Master

I remember those things on the pier in the 60's. We never used them.


----------



## LUPilot

On the note of sabiki rigs- how do actually catch bait on them? (technique wise). All I've ever been able to catch on them is pinfish (with the aid of shrimp on the hooks), lady fish, and a blue fish.


----------



## Charlie2

*Pilchard Rings*



BlueH20Fisher said:


> Only the ones made from mono are illegal, wire is fine. In tarpon season they're worth their weight in gold...on a pier.


Can you provide a reference for this? Thanks, C2


----------



## CLEVE3990

I made many of them back in the 60"-70"s. I used piano leader material and sleeves. Made about 18" long and 1 1/4- 1 1/2 dia.Put red ribbon along side. Great for Alewifes!!

I also liked the T-28B-C. Carrier qualed in C on Anteitam while at Barin Field. Later flew Panthers at Sherman Field. I agree--T-28 was lots of fun.:thumbup:


----------



## Charlie2

*Pilchard Rings*



LUPilot said:


> On the note of sabiki rigs- how do actually catch bait on them? (technique wise). All I've ever been able to catch on them is pinfish (with the aid of shrimp on the hooks), lady fish, and a blue fish.





Charlie2 said:


> Can you provide a reference for this? Thanks, C2


First question: I give them to the kids and they jig them up and down. They also catch some nice white trout on them. Keeps them occupied. My 'kids' are now in their 50s and still like to fish for bait for Old Dad when they come South..

And the question remains: I have read the regulations many times and I can find nothing in writing that precludes the use of these rings, other than 'they are considered a gill net and therefore illegal according to the net ban' that I have heard many times.

I think, and that's dangerous, I know, that it is a matter of interpretation. Ask two wardens and you'll get two different answers.

I don't take the chance of getting caught and fined. Besides; it's easier to use a sabiki.

Lots of malted beverages have been consumed during lengthy discussions on this subject. JMHO C2


----------



## flukedaddy

Statewide net restrictions:

The use of gill and _entangling_ nets is prohibited in all state waters where marine animals, finfish or shellfish occur. Nets that are considered _entangling_ nets are: 1)* any net* with a stretched mesh size larger than two inches is considered an _entangling_ net; and 2) any net (*other than a hand-thrown cast net*) constructed wholly or partially of monofilament or multistrand monofilament material
The use of any net with a mesh area exceeding 500 square feet is prohibited in nearshore and inshore waters
Fishing with more that *two nets per boat* is prohibited in nearshore and inshore waters (3 miles from the Gulf coast and 1 mile from the Atlantic coast).
Other local net restrictions may also apply.
Saltwater net limitations are found in Chapter 68-B, F.A.C. To view FWC rules, go to the Florida Administrative Code web at https://www.flrules.org/Default.asp.

I know the net on the ones I used was small but still a net. Still kinda vague, I guess it all depends on the officer. I havent seen the metal ones, the way it reads I guess inless it was covered with mono youd be good but does your line count...lol


I found the no more than 2 nets kinda strang to, never heard that one.


----------



## Charlie2

*Boat Nets*



flukedaddy said:


> Statewide net restrictions:
> 
> 
> 
> I found the no more than 2 nets kinda strang to, never heard that one.





I have seen as many as 4 nets being used at one time from a boat.

They would cast one; let it sink, then throw the other ones in sequence. Four nets in the water at one time. Lots of fish caught. C2


----------



## BlueH20Fisher

Don't care enough to go digging for references, but I know, and that's enough for me. Sabiki and gold hooks are great...until a hot July afternoon when bait is matted on top and won't eat and tarpon are pouring through and you can't get a bait, I'll have a fresh LY in seconds every drop. We still use mono ones too, we just put em on crappy rods and no one claims them if asked...stupid law anyway.


----------



## GWally

CLEVE3990 said:


> I made many of them back in the 60"-70"s. I used piano leader material and sleeves. Made about 18" long and 1 1/4- 1 1/2 dia.Put red ribbon along side. Great for Alewifes!!
> 
> I also liked the T-28B-C. Carrier qualed in C on Anteitam while at Barin Field. Later flew Panthers at Sherman Field. I agree--T-28 was lots of fun.:thumbup:


Sounds like just what I saw being used. 

You got me beat. VT-5 also out of Barin but, qual'd on the Lex. Stuck with props dreaming of flying Spads, ended up they quit the pipeline. Saw the last flight of them, VA-174 I think coming home from Nam in a ragged formation at NAS Jax. 

I lived in Sevierville TN a few years back and they have one in orange and white there. Almost made me cry. Great machine with enough torque and performance to get your attention.
Remember 55kt slow flight? Nothing but a prop and power keeping that bird in the air. 
Those were the days.


----------



## reelthrill

BlueH20Fisher said:


> Only the ones made from mono are illegal, wire is fine. In tarpon season they're worth their weight in gold...on a pier.


He is exactly correct. I tarpon fish all summer and they are worth their weight in gold!


----------



## Destinjax

I think the two net ban arrived when the mullet net law used to read 50 per net. People were taking four & five nets on the boat with them and were saying 250 mullet....right?!?! Ha ha got a love it!


----------



## givnupfreshwater

*Red ribbon net*

I just got back from a week on the pier and from 11 am to 7 pm if you didn't have a net, you were not fishing live bait. I didn't have one and would have paid dearly for one. There were four or five people that used nets and caught bait.


----------



## barefoot

For those who haven't seen a RED snare.

I just happen to have one preserved from the 70's...used it on the old wooden pier in Navarre all the time.

Worked incredibly well.


----------



## Reel Justice

I have never seen such a thing


----------



## Sailor50

I thought I would just ask the man. Got this email today from FWC ....
​ ​ 
From: Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission <[email protected]>  








Date: Monday, June 16, 2014 9:16 AM








To: xx








Subject: Ask FWC :: W014127-061314 
xx: These are legal for the harvest of bait species. Thanks, Alan 




Create Date: 6/13/2014 10:06:00 AM
Reference # W014127-061314
Customer: 
Category: Fishing, Saltwater Fish & Marine Organisms

Description: Are these rigs illegal to use now? Small net with a red ribbon runnging through them, catch the fish by the gills. Remember we used them in the 70s. Think they are called Pilchard rigs too. If they are illegal, cant we get a law to allow something like them just for recreational bait catching?

Visit *Ask FWC* to find answers fast, contact us and view your previous requests.


----------



## Hopin4aboat

Wow that's awesome to hear, May need to find one of the quality metal ones that'll last a while, I have a few of the cheapo ones from Alabama but they last about 1/2 trip


----------



## Ez2cDave

*How to make Pilchard Rings

To All,

When I was growing up in South Florida, I used Pilchard Rings ( aka - "Ribbon Rigs" ) to catch baitfish ( Pilchards / Menhaden ) from the fishing piers . Recently, I discovered that they have been declared to be a "gill net", theoretically "illegal", and not available in stores anymore. I always used to make my own, as a kid.

So, for purely "historical value" . . .

"HOW TO MAKE PILCHARD RINGS"

MATERIALS :

6 ft. of #7 Dark-Colored, Solid Leader Wire

1 Barrel Swivel

1 Snap Swivel ( to allow weight changes )

Cardboard Toilet Paper or Paper Towel Tube ( 1" I.D. Sch. 40 PVC works great, too )

3 ft. of Bright Red Ribbon ( 3/8" - 1/2" wide )

Pyramid, Bank, or Dipsey/ Bass Sinker ( 3/4oz - 1 1/2oz +/- )

CONSTRUCTION :

(1) Start with a six-foot length of No. 7 dark leader wire.

(2) Bend it in half and slide on a barrel swivel.

(3) Tie a LOOSE, TWO-TURN, overhand knot in the wire near the bend to "capture" the swivel

(4) Form a loop, using a the toilet paper or paper towel tube ( or 1" I.D. Sch. 40 PVC pipe )as a "mandrel" ( you may need to vary the loop size depending on baitfish sizes in your area) and make a SINGLE-TURN Overhand Knot,

(5) ALTERNATE the direction of the Overhand Knots each time to help the rig hang straighter

(6) Repeat until you have a series of loops, leaving a couple of inches of wire free at the bottom

(7) Slip on the Snap Swivel and connect the loose ends of the wire, using a SHORT Haywire Twist

(8) Hold the rig at each end and pull on it to stretch the loops out into an oval shape

(9) Attach the bright red ribbon at one end by knotting it to the Swivel loop

(10) Pass the ribbon through rings one-third and two-thirds of the way up the rig

(11) Attach the ribbon to the other Swivel, leaving some slack in the ribbon when fully extended

(12) Attach the Sinker to the Snap Swivel and the rig is complete

HOW TO USE:

Tie the rig to a light spinning rod and lower or cast it into a baitfish school and let it sink. You will feel baitfish hitting the rig. Keep the line tight and wait for the rod to bend. When it does, wait a few seconds and reel up. Remove baitfish and repeat, as desired !


















*


----------



## reelthrill

I have kept a note from the FWC in my wallet for two years now that says they are legal. Simple to make out of cast net mesh and red ribbon.


----------



## Bigdady

Thanks for your service, in 1987 I started working on the T-34s. Been on the T-6s now for about 12 years.. Dam, almost 30 years, man im getting old...


----------



## welldoya

I use to use one of these on the Panama City Beach pier back in the 70s. (the old wooden one near Miracle Strip Amusement Park)
I never throw anything away so I'm betting I've still got it around the house somewhere, probably in an old tackle box. 
I'm going to look around and see if I can find it.


----------



## Ez2cDave

To All,

I sent a long, detailed FAX to the Florida WIldlife Commission, regarding "Pilchard Rings" . . . This was the reply I received :

*QUOTE :*

Thank you for contacting the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (Commission) for clarity on the state’s fishing rules. As requested, I am following up to provide you with the legal status of “pilchard rings” (also called “ribbon rigs”): a string of wire rings designed to capture small bait fish. The Commission’s Legal Office has determined that any gear designed to capture bait by gilling them meets the broad definition of the term “net,” regardless of whether it consists of wire, monofilament rings, or other material. In short, based on the methods pilchard rings use to capture fish, they are considered “entangling nets,” which are explicitly prohibited by Commission’s regulations found in 68B-4.0081, Florida Administrative Code, which were implemented in compliance with the Net Limitation Amendment (Article X, Section 16 of the Florida Constitution). In summary, the use of pilchard rings, constructed of either monofilament mesh or wire rings, is prohibited in Florida Waters. 

If you would like more detailed information on these rules, I have included a document that summarizes the relevant Constitutional, statutory, and Commission regulations for more information. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to me personally at [email protected] or by calling (561) 882-5727. 

Sincerely,

*Mason Smith
*Biological Scientist IV
Division of Marine Fisheries Management
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
South Regional Office, 8535 Northlake Blvd
West Palm Beach, Florida 33412
(561)-882-5727 _office phone_
(561)-625-5129 _fax_


*PDF File Contents . . .*

September 13, 2016


Pilchard Rings (also known as ribbon rigs)


Pilchard rings are metal or monofilament rings attached in a series, designed to capture small bait fish such as pilchards (scaled sardines) by entanglement. The rules that relate to pilchard rings can be found in three places: 68B-4 of the Florida Administrative Code (FAC), Florida Statutes, and the Constitution of Florida, as separated below:


68B-4, FAC:


68B-4.002 Gear Definitions.
(3) “Entangling net” means a drift net, trammel net, stab net, or any other net which captures saltwater finfish, shellfish, or other marine animals by causing all or parts of heads, fins, legs, or other body parts to become entangled or ensnared in the meshes or in pockets of the net. This term does not include a cast net.


(26) The term “net” or “netting” shall be broadly construed to include all manner or combination of mesh or webbing or any other solid or semi-solid fabric or other material used to comprise a device that is used to take or harvest marine life.


68B-4.0081 Statewide Net Gear Specifications; Soaking Requirements; Definitions; Cast Net Specifications.


(1) This rule is intended to implement prohibitions and restrictions of Article X, Section 16 of the Florida Constitution. As used there and in this rule, the term “net” or “netting” shall be broadly construed to include all manner or combination of mesh or webbing or any other solid or semisolid fabric or other material used to comprise a device that is used to take or harvest marine life.


(2) The following gear specifications shall apply in all state waters:


(a) The use or placement in the water of any gill or entangling nets of any size is prohibited.


(b) Any net constructed wholly or partially of monofilament or multistrand monofilament material, other than a hand thrown cast net, or a handheld landing or dip net, shall be considered an entangling net prohibited by Article X, Section 16 of the Florida Constitution, and this rule, unless otherwise authorized by rule of the Commission. The term “multistrand monofilament” does not include braided or twisted twines made of nylon, cotton, linen, or polypropylene.


Florida Statutes:


379.2422 Illegal use of nets.—


(1) It is unlawful to take or harvest, or to attempt to take or harvest, any marine life in Florida waters with any net that is not consistent with the provisions of s. 16, Art. X of the State Constitution.


(3) As used in s. 16, Art. X of the State Constitution and this subsection, the term “net” or “netting” must be broadly construed to include all manner or combination of mesh or webbing or any other solid or semisolid fabric or other material used to comprise a device that is used to take or harvest marine life.


Constitution of Florida:


Section 16, Article X of the Constitution of Florida


SECTION 16. Limiting marine net fishing.—


(a) The marine resources of the State of Florida belong to all of the people of the state and should be conserved and managed for the benefit of the state, its people, and future generations. To this end the people hereby enact limitations on marine net fishing in Florida waters to protect saltwater finfish, shellfish, and other marine animals from unnecessary killing, overfishing and waste.


(b) For the purpose of catching or taking any saltwater finfish, shellfish or other marine animals in Florida waters:


(1) No gill nets or other entangling nets shall be used in any Florida waters; and


(2) In addition to the prohibition set forth in (1), no other type of net containing more than 500 square feet of mesh area shall be used in nearshore and inshore Florida waters. Additionally, no more than two such nets, which shall not be connected, shall be used from any vessel, and no person not on a vessel shall use more than one such net in nearshore and inshore Florida waters.


(c) For purposes of this section:


(1) “gill net” means one or more walls of netting which captures saltwater finfish by ensnaring or entangling them in the meshes of the net by the gills, and “entangling net” means a drift net, trammell net, stab net, or any other net which captures saltwater finfish, shellfish, or other marine animals by causing all or part of heads, fins, legs, or other body parts to become entangled or ensnared in the meshes of the net, but a hand thrown cast net is not a gill net or an entangling net;


END QUOTE:


Tight Lines !


----------



## specktackler57

Good info. I was told by the man that they are no longer legal. Used on gulf shore piers in the 70s. Too bad they work pretty good.


----------



## captken

*We made them like Ez2cDave but--*

In place of the ribbon we used hot orange or pink beads, one on each side of the loop. These thing were deadly. I can tie one up and photograph it if anybody is interested.

If you want to see it, better send me a PM or I might never get back here again.


----------



## captken

*As I recall--this dates back to the late 50's.*

These rings were made in at least 2 configurations that I can think of. My favorite was made of individual rings connected where one ring would face 
E-W and the next would face N-S. The one shown above is, by far, the easiest to make, maybe not quite as effective, though


----------



## captken

*As I recall--this dates back to the late 50's.*

These rings were made in at least 2 configurations that I can think of. My favorite was made of individual rings connected where one ring would face 
E-W and the next would face N-S. The one shown above is, by far, the easiest to make, maybe not quite as effective, though.


----------



## captken

*Better late than never.*

OK, here is how I made them and sold them at Wayside and Navarre Piers.



Notice where the wraps that make the rings are. Remember that Pilchards and Threadfins have thin bellies with hard scales. if the wraps are at the point where 2 rings come together, baitfish don't hang in as well. The tiny wire goes under a scale and doesn't come out. I distorted the round rings to where the splices wouldn't be at the bottom of the ring when it was hanging. I suggested using 2 oz Pyramid sinkers.

I sold these ring rigs for $.75 each. That was big bucks to me because I was making $354/month before taxes as a first year teacher in 1963. As I recall, I used 8 rings in a rig and did not furnish a sinker. I sold about 200 of these rigs between August and November of that year. That was a huge addition to my income.

The rings in the photo above ere made with #3 wire which is very hard to handle for these old fingers and eyes. I tried with #7 but it was way to stiff. I prefer #5 wire.


----------



## kingfish501

The ring type have an advantage over the webbing type. Never figured out how an LY can mangle to put the ones made from webbing into a wadded up mess that takes a lobg time to unsnarl. I've got one of the ring type I made last year already mounted on a bait rod* disclaimer " for demonstration purposes only*. Never figured out WHY they work with red ribbon, but they do work.


----------



## Wade Patton

Neat. Glad I learned of this. And I fish 'Bama lately. 

Could be used for survival tool too. Easier to make hoops/loops than hooks or nets.


----------

