# Powerheads and federal waters



## JustinR

so as most of you know amberjack is coming in this weekend. I did some calling around to verify, you can fish amberjack with powerheads in federal water. I also called the state and it is allowed to shore the fish as long as you move straight to shore. I did not know this so i am passing it along.:thumbup: if you would like the federal contact info PM me


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## WhackUmStackUm

Some folks on the PFF "spear" with powerheads. I don't use them myself.

A friend of mine who works for NOAA once mentioned something about powerheads being allowed in Federal waters deeper than 20 fathoms (120'). However, I never did the research to find rules.

Good luck. I had to do the same type of digging to sort out the rules for spearfishing with rebreathers in Federal waters.


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## JustinR

WhackUmStackUm said:


> Some folks on the PFF "spear" with powerheads. I don't use them myself.
> 
> A friend of mine who works for NOAA once mentioned something about powerheads being allowed in Federal waters deeper than 20 fathoms (120'). However, I never did the research to find rules.
> 
> Good luck. I had to do the same type of digging to sort out the rules for spearfishing with rebreathers in Federal waters.


To answer your question there is no depth requirement


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## MillerTime

Why would you even want/need to use a powerhead in the first place? Kind of takes some of the fun out of it.


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## Ocean Master

I use military 45 caliber power heads when I was doing it years ago. The military 45 ammo is waterproof but would be hard to find today. 

I have no idea on rules today and it was still fun...


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## amarcafina

MillerTime said:


> Why would you even want/need to use a powerhead in the first place?
> Kind of takes some of the fun out of it.


kinda like scr$%ing your sister ?


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## JustinR

I think ocean master said it best Bc it's fun and it is faster


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## Orion45

Wirelessly posted

Ever spear a large AJ in midwater?

If you don't stone it, you're going for a ride and you better hope the AJ decides to go down. 

Ask FenderBender. I believe it was him who shot a humongous AJ several years ago and was taken for a ride. Fortunately, the AJ went down and the bottom was at 185'.


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## Billybob+

Not sure why this post is even in the "Spearfishing" section? it'd be kinda like a longliner reporting a grouper or Tuna trip in the offshore section.

And to think, I almost screwed up and invited this guy to go with us! WEW! dodged that one!


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## Orion45

I don't own a power head and never intend to spearfish with one but as long as it is legal, there is no reason to criticize someone who does.

Similar rationale is often used against those who spearfish with SCUBA gear or rebreathers. As a matter of fact, many free divers frown upon those who spearfish using an external air supply.

Conveniently, these same free divers forget that a lot of their kind spearfish using bouys and float lines.

So, unless you're free diving and using a speargun with the spear attached to it and spearing the big ones without the aid of buoys or floats, you should probably back off the criticism.


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## FenderBender

93 lbs 14 ounces. Lucky it didn't kill me. I would not do it again, unless it was with a power head, which is to say I would not do it again period. Not very sporting, but they serve a purpose, I know the commercial spearos use them and that makes sense. 

Now I'm happy searching for shovel nose and flounder. I'd rather tuna or swordfish hook and line than spear reef fish. But I'd rather dive than bottom fish all day long! Still love it all though.


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## Orion45

FenderBender said:


> 93 lbs 14 ounces. Lucky it didn't kill me. I would not do it again, unless it was with a power head, which is to say I would not do it again period. Not very sporting, but they serve a purpose, I know the commercial spearos use them and that makes sense.
> 
> Now I'm happy searching for shovel nose and flounder. I'd rather tuna or swordfish hook and line than spear reef fish. But I'd rather dive than bottom fish all day long! Still love it all though.


That was a whopper. :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I did remembered that correctly. I might be getting older but the mind is still sound...at least for now. :whistling:


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## Billybob+

I think it's every bit within my right to question if this is "spearfishing" I doublt seriously anyone would place and exploding tip on an arrow and shoot a deer with it such that the concussion disables the deer regardless of where it was hit and then try to pass that off as Archery hunting. I don't question for one second the legality of powerheads, it either is or isn't. and I presume he did his homework and found it to be legal. and the only other thing I would be/was critical of is the fact there won't be powerheads on my boat. I stand by that. they aren't within a normal range of "fair sporting game" as evidenced by no one allows them in any spearfishing tournament. Skin diving or Scuba. Plus, the VAST majority of the people who carry them have little to no experience with them which compounds the senselessness of using them. I've discharged powerheads before and know what they're about and what to expect. If youi really like the taste of those nasty worm-infested AJ's have at it...just don't try to pass it off as "spearfishing"


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## JustinR

Billybob+ said:


> Not sure why this post is even in the "Spearfishing" section? it'd be kinda like a longliner reporting a grouper or Tuna trip in the offshore section.
> 
> And to think, I almost screwed up and invited this guy to go with us! WEW! dodged that one!


All I can say is wow.. I guess you made the right decision. Bc with comments like that would have been a waste. But I hope you find comfort in knowing that not everyone is for everybody cheers


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## Billybob+

I guess we "WOW'd" each other, cause that was the same response I had when I read your initial post.......it's all good! good luck blasitng those reef donkeys!:thumbup:


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## JustinR

I guess the only thing I should ask you is that the next time that you decide to criticize someone maybe you should know a little bit more about them before you do one of the reasons I posted this was mainly to inform secondly shooting and AJ it's 90+ pounds off of the rigs and 320 foot of water is a little safer then shooting with a spear tip that could possibly drag you down to that depth also perhaps some people who wish to spear AJ's but are quite in the physical condition to do so would prefer this method the reason for adding it into the spearfishing section to answer your question is the people who Spearfish may need to know this information I doubt people who do not Spearfish would care much about power heading in the first place but rude comments are not necessary as for my experience handling explosive devices since you wanted to point that out I would consider to be very experienced considering I spent 10 years in United States Marine Corps shooting everything that had gunpowder behind it and safety is the number one priority so without knowing the situation please feel free to voice your Comments but don't attack me personally if you never met me good luck to you as well


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## Billybob+

How many powerheads did you discharge in the Marines (by the way, thanks for serving...while I didn't, my Dad was a lifer ....literally..in the USAF) 

oh and on another note, make sure you check your facts closely

this is directly from a Federal document:


 Stressed Areas
 
Use of roller trawls and power heads is prohibited in designated stressed areas. Stressed areas for reef fish begin at the shoreward boundary of federal waters and generally follow the 10 fathom contour from the Dry Tortugas to Sanibel Island; the 20 fathom contour to Tarpon Springs; the 10 fathom contour to Cape San Blas; the 25 fathom contour to south of Mobile Bay; the 13 fathom contour to Ship Island, Mississippi; the 10 fathom contour off Louisiana; and the 30 fathom contour off Texas 


25 fathoms is 150 feet. 

you probably won't accept what I posted but here it is if you'd like to check for yourself 

http://gulfcouncil.org/fishing_regulations/RecreationalRegulations.pdf Notice the date on it is May 2015 so I presume it is current.


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## JustinR

exactly you're correct but our areas of stressed area or into the line map that you pointed out which I discussed with the federal officer is why it is illegal in our state waters but is legal just inside of federal waters


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## Billybob+

unless I read the document wrong, the "Stressed Area" from Cape San Blas to South of Mobile follows a 25 fathom depth. Therefore it would be illegal to discharge a powerhead at a reef fish in waters less than 150 feet deep. maybe I read it wrong. if so please explain. i'm just not reading it any other way but perhaps I'm just reading it wrong.


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## JustinR

Ok OK quit getting stuck on the 25 Fathums it calls out several different ones Alabama state waters go out further than Florida state waters hence the 25 fathoms out of Mobile Bay but Florida State waters if you look at the 20 fathom marker line map on the link that you provided you'll see the difference Florida state waters are closer to shore been Alabama's hence why I calls out 1013 20 it depends on where you're porting out at it also states that stressed areas usually begin at the Inward boundary of federal waters and goes to the shoreline that is why you can use the State water and federal water boundary line so if you're going out of Mobile Bay their waters in at the 25 fathom mine south of Mobile Bay make sense


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## JustinR

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Xlw1ejT_KQU-loqYg&sig2=sztzEqH3TFFGH9dgg-shqw



Perhaps is allowable gear list it will help you


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## Billybob+

Man, one of us is reading this thing WAY wrong.
So just to inform you 

AL waters. as recognized by the feds are THREE N.M. Florida is 9 NM

see this:

The Alabama Legislature passed a bill in 2014 to extend Alabama’s Gulf waters to 9 miles for fisheries management. During the July season, the MRD will recognize the Alabama legislative 9-mile limit for the harvest of red snapper and gray triggerfish. However, the new distance is not currently recognized by the federal government. Anglers in possession of red snapper or gray triggerfish should be aware that federal law enforcement officers or federally deputized law enforcement officers from adjacent states could issue citations outside the 3-mile limit. Therefore, anglers should understand that fishing between 3 and 9 miles in Alabama’s state waters is at their own risk.


so now let's break down the EXACT verbage of the federal pamphlet beginning at the top 


 
Use of roller trawls and power heads is prohibited in designated stressed areas.  


I think I can get you to agree that powerheads are prohibited in "designated Stressed areas" correct? If not, we're at an impass. 

so the next thing to look at is "what exactly consitutes a "Designated Stressed Area" 

From the document. 

 Stressed areas for reef fish begin at the shoreward boundary of federal waters 




shoreward boundary is where state waters end...this is the BEGINNING of stressed areas so hence it FL it is the 9NM mark from the nearest point of land. We already agree (I hope) that you can't powerhead in State waters so 0-9NM isn't in question 

so they BEGIN (the stresssed areas where it's illegal to powerhead within) at the 9NM line in FL and TECHNICALLY the 3NM line in AL though I know AL residence don't like hearing that' 

Then the Stressed Areas PROCEEd :

 the 10 fathom contour to Cape San Blas; the 25 fathom contour to south of Mobile Bay 
 

That means befgining anywhere WEST of Cape San Blas TO due South Of Mobile the OUTER limit of the stressed area is the 25 fathom line.

so...If youi're powerheading out of Pensacola, Destin or Orange Beach, REGARDLESS of your launch point it is illegal to powerhead reef fish within water shallower than 150 feet.

if you still don't get it, we'll just agree to disagree, but hopefully i've saved someone else the headache of a ticket (though I realize it's early impossible to inforce that, it is illegal none the less) happy hunitng!

 






JustinR said:


> Ok OK quit getting stuck on the 25 Fathums it calls out several different ones Alabama state waters go out further than Florida state waters hence the 25 fathoms out of Mobile Bay but Florida State waters if you look at the 20 fathom marker line map on the link that you provided you'll see the difference Florida state waters are closer to shore been Alabama's hence why I calls out 1013 20 it depends on where you're porting out at it also states that stressed areas usually begin at the Inward boundary of federal waters and goes to the shoreline that is why you can use the State water and federal water boundary line so if you're going out of Mobile Bay their waters in at the 25 fathom mine south of Mobile Bay make sense


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## JustinR

Well not being in the federal fishing commission I can only tell you what was explained to me by Kevin brown I think it was from the federal fishery committe you are welcome to call and speak with him as I have


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## Billybob+

I think it's written poorly but certainly clear enough for me to understand, I can't speak to Kevin Brown being the final source of all powerheading regulatiions , but I really think, if he explained it to you in this way, he is wrong also....but I'm sure I won't be ticketed regardless. I won't change your opinion, I won't be ticketed because there'll never be a Powerhead on my boat. HONESTLY...I regret ever posting, best of luck to you! I'll go back to just posting and reading the Derbyboard and leave the rest of it alone. should've never taken the bait about powerheading...my bad


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## Telum Pisces

My powerhead is bigger than your powerhead!:whistling:


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## bmoore

Personally I think the things are dangerous..I dont own one..and would have no problem blasting a 90lb aj in the head with my riffe.....the thrill is what its all about to me..


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## SaltAddict

Billybob (as I know him on the forum, never met him) can be a bit opinionated. 







Personally, I carried a powerhead for years. I've used it to harvest a time or two. I've used it in self defense a time or two. 
It was great for making my gun negative. I'm not too big on my gun floating after the shot. 
I had my fun with my powerhead. Will I ever use it again? Maybe. Maybe not. 
Would I ever pass off a powerhead shot as a spear shot? No. (Not saying you would, just throwing it out there).

I will say, in my humble opinion, the argument of "no powerheads" wreaks of "scuba diving ain't spear fishing" coming from a free diver. 
A power head is a tool. In my humble opinion, a man who spent extensive years in training with firearms in the USMC has the proper knowledge to use said tool. 

I can be quite opinionated (ask my woman). However, it would be nice to have some toned down discussions about these things, and leave the sandy vagina bull shit to the General Discussion guys. 

Happy Hunting!


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## SaltAddict

By the way, JustinR, thank you for your service. 
If you like spearfishing and beer drinking, you can jump on my boat. 
Shoot me a message with your contact info and I'll let you know next time we head out.


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## jan1974

Killing a fish with explosives? Wow, thats like shooting a deer with bazooka....
If you dont have a balls to shoot AJ with a speargun just stick with spadefish and sheepheads..
Spearfishing is a sport not a war..


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## SaltAddict

You shoot a deer with a rifle. Why not only shoot deer with a bow. Are you not a man?


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## no woryz

jan1974 said:


> Killing a fish with explosives? Wow, thats like shooting a deer with bazooka....
> If you dont have a balls to shoot AJ with a speargun just stick with spadefish and sheepheads..
> Spearfishing is a sport not a war..


Whats with all the Internet badass stuff that going on here.... no need for it , Justin asked a simple question as he is new to Gulf diving and there is no need for personal attacks, insults or to to call somebody out cause theyre not as badass as you..... logically state your opinion and if your not contributing then just move on. 

Billybob, Justin is a good person and diver, but I & others now know to never dive with you in order to avoid the drama.

Jane, shooting a fish with a powerhead is actually like shooting any other animal with a rifle... it's not a bazooka, but if beco makes one I'd look into it.


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## Billybob+

Never invited youi dude ....never would! no worries! :thumbup:


no woryz said:


> Whats with all the Internet badass stuff that going on here.... no need for it , Justin asked a simple question as he is new to Gulf diving and there is no need for personal attacks, insults or to to call somebody out cause theyre not as badass as you..... logically state your opinion and if your not contributing then just move on.
> 
> Billybob, Justin is a good person and diver, but I & others now know to never dive with you in order to avoid the drama.
> 
> Jane, shooting a fish with a powerhead is actually like shooting any other animal with a rifle... it's not a bazooka, but if beco makes one I'd look into it.


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## JustinR

Bob I am sick of your crap if you don't have any thing to add to the conversation keep your mouth shut. You do not no half of the ppl you pop off to so your opinion about them is moot


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## Billybob+

Am I bob? If so, I didn't "pop off" at anyone. I wouldn't have even responded except NoWorryz called me by name. If my opinions are moot, why worry about them? 

all too confusing....I'll make you a deal. ya'll quit calling me by name and I'll "quit popping off" 

If I'm NOT Bob....OOPS!! sorry



JustinR said:


> Bob I am sick of your crap if you don't have any thing to add to the conversation keep your mouth shut. You do not no half of the ppl you pop off to so your opinion about them is moot


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