# ***attention ft pickens flounder fishermen***



## captwesrozier

YOU cannot gig flounders from the west corner fort wall to the east corner fort wall.

You can gig flounders from the east corner wall headed east to the camp ground which is about 100 plus yards of beach.

You cannot gig flounders from the camp ground east to the park ranger station pier.

As you can see this is the flounder beach which means why go for 100 yards of beach!

you need to call Mr. Brown at the GINS. Let him know this is NOT FAIR!

You should have been at the meeting last night!


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## Boatjob1

Thanks for the info Captain. Next thing you know they will be requiring us to register and license each fishing rod and reel........ Glad that my years are numbered....... Gggghhhhheeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, what next?


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## 60hertz

maybe we should organize a "raft up" plan to all flounder at Fort Pickens on a certain date? See how many tickets they can write?


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## Matt Mcleod

It is also important that the reason for the restricted flounder gigging area is for the SAFETY OF OTHER GUESTS at the park!!! This came out of Dan Brown's mouth!!

How outrageous is that!!! That a man or woman with a flounder gig presents a danger to other people!!! 

Government at it's finest! 

Don't worry everybody everything will be ok, the government knows what's best for us.........


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## LITECATCH

Wes, after we left the meeting we floundered Ft. Pickens with no trouble. I did hear you tell Mr Brown that a friend of yours was run off from Pickens beach. Maybe they took the night off!


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## Faithnfishin

Really, is this official! My brother went last night east of camp ground and did not have any problems. Got limit too!


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## captwesrozier

THIS IS OFFICIAL!!!!!

Call Mr. Brown and ask him.

Been on the books since the 80's!


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## boatnbob

*Do they own the water, and if so how far out?*

I am not trying to be a smart *ss, but want to stay out of trouble. Is this for wading giggers or boat giggers? There goes a huge section of decent production.

Thanks in advance,

Bob


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## PBTH

This should certainly be removed from the books. Capt Wes, since this has been on the books since the 80's, do you know if this would have to be resolved separately from issues with the proposed alternatives? If so, would a petition for removing this regulation be a good way to go about this?


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## PBTH

Boatnbob, I believe it pertains to all giggers.


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## X-Shark

I got a report that last night it was a Cluster F#@k out there with boats running all over one another.


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## biggamefishr

I talked to chief dede and mr brown both about this last night. Mr brown told me HE could change it and to just email him about it and he'll look into it. So that's what I suggest we all do. Just be nice and let him know your stance and hope for the best. Chief dede said there might be some confusion by her people as to where we can and cannot flounder, she assured me she would look into further and make sure her staff is better informed.


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## biggamefishr

Taylor this is a completely different issue from the alternative plans, and mr brown can take care of it for us


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## PBTH

Oh, fantastic. Thanks, Biggame. I'll be sure to email him. Now if I ever get a chance to finally go flounder gigging hopefully Ft. Pickens will be open!

EMAIL SENT


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## LITECATCH

Bobby we saw very few boats out last night. We were headed home around 8:30. It might have got crazy after that.


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## flounderslayerman

:cursing: I got a call the day before it went into affect. I hoped it wasn't true but from what I'm reading I guess it is. That Sucks! They close the best gigging section on Pickins. If we all band together we might be able to get the rule changed. What are we hurting nothing. Fellow giggers and fisherman we need to band together and Fight some of these crazy rules and regulations. Together we could accomplish some changes in our favor because the rules have gotten out of hand. Let's due what ever it takes. Please!!!


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## captwesrozier

flounderslayerman

great speech

the only problem we were all at the meeting on tuesday fighting for your rights...where were you?:wallbash:


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## flounderslayerman

Working that's where. I've fished to many days side by side with you in the pass. I care just as much as you Wes. I just don't make my living fishing. If I could have been there you bet your a$$ I would've been. My job keeps me from fishing and joining in on the meetings like I want. I'll leave it at that.


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## flounderslayerman

*Capt Wes*

:notworthy: Wes I have nothing but respect for you and your fishing skills. I have talked to you many times while drifting the pass catching sheephead at the 13 in the spring. Just let me know what I can do since I can't make it to the meetings.


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## captwesrozier

call mr brown at 850-934-2615

tell him your opinion!!!!!

see you on the water!!!!!!


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## Seegul51

Wes will back this up, at the meeting the other night, all we could hear is when they were being told by someone higher than them from the Feds. Here is the truth, if you don't register your complains about the park plans, you will enjoy the park by permit, or sitting off the beach x amount of yards because we are saving the seagrass. Once its in the plan, its law. Contact Jeff Miller, get him involved, this is the Federal Government, same people that know more about fishing than the fisherman.


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## frydaddy

*pickens*

Wes, don't be so quick to insinuate that we don't care about our fishing rights. I one for one didn't even know about a meeting, let alone what was going on. I don't get the newspaper and after working my 12-13 hour days (I'm another one that doesn't fish for a living, I have a full-time job) I'm too tired to catch the late local news. I didn't see anything posted on the forum about this. We used to see post in the past concerning upcoming meetings on the snapper issues. It would be nice to be a full-time fisherman like you and the others that made the meeting and be able to keep up and be notified of everything that is going on but, I'm not and neither is the majority of fishermen. We are not in the know like you guys and you guys shouldn't think that we are. I am, as always, glad that you and the others were there to speak against the changes and that you guys are always there at the out of town meetings speaking there as well. 

I have been to many meetings that I was aware of and able to travel to, but this one, I knew nothing about. Don't any of you haters in any way think I am being criticle or sarcastic about the full-time fishermen because none of this is being written to be negative against them, one day I too will be a full-time fisherman, if there is any fishing allowed after the next five years and my life will be to live and breathe fishing.

Had it been posted on the forum, which I read every couple of days, I would've been at the meeting, Ive been on vacation this week and would have loved to have been there to voice my opinion. Probably, since it was a local meeting, I bet more fishermen would've showed up had they known. A heads up on meetings would be nice if someone in the know could take the time to post it. We don't know whats going on like everyone may think. It seems to me that once this forum was taken over by the new and improved forum, that communicating upcoming events has gone by the wayside.

Thanks for the phone number to call, where is the web site to e-mail and where would we address a hand written letter, my personal preference. 

frydaddy


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## jjam

*Contact Info*

Fry,

Sorry, you didn't see the post prior to the event by Capt Wes and I believe in the old forum days it may have been pinned and awareness better communicated. I happened to see it here from Capt Wes 1st and then read it in the PNJ day of so, I attended last minute. Here's what I learned,

1) Superintendent Daniel Brown presently has the authority to close any section of the Nat'l Park to the public whenever he feels it's in the best interest of the park.

2) The 4 Alternatives that may be used in the event the Nat'l Sea Shore's health become threatened due to public use were presented by Larissa Read of the Nat'l Park system based out of Denver CO. 
Mr Brown and Larissa referred to the 4 alternatives as viable "tools" and only used if necessary.

3) Mr Brown also acknowledge that some vague language may need to be addressed within the plans but held on to language in reference to rebuilding the road out to Ft Pickens in the event of another hurricane, "road would be rebuilt where feasible" this means if the road is deemed "not feasible to rebuild". No Road! 

4) All areas of the park system will be re-zoned for certain type activities. Controlled access such as camping, nature trails, beaches, back primitive camping such as Ft Mcrae etc. 
There are 7 of these type zones and yes it will change how the park will be made available to the public. 

I believe Mr. Brown to be a very nice guy and respected gentleman looking to do right by our National Seashore but today's presentation lacked a clear process when the park system would initiate the chosen Alternative/s. 
Alternatives were presented as "tools" to be used only if necessary. Nothing was presented today how Mr. Brown may determine when the proposed alternative/s would be necessary. 

Final, lack of trust in the Gov't & Park system by the public in attendance today was voiced loud and clear to Mr Brown. Mr. Brown responded by encouraging all to voice their concerns either by e-mail or by the provided comment forms available at the meeting. 

I hope we all voice our concerns via http://parkplanning.nps.gov/guis or mail hard copy to:
National Park Service 
Denver Service Ctr-Larissa Read,DSC-P 
PO BOX 25287 
Denver CO 80225-9901

Jimmy


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## captwesrozier

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.co...ere-we-have-get-permits-camp-ft-mcrae-100114/

frydaddy...the above link has been up for several weeks now...you may have missed this thread.

as far as your comment here..."Wes, don't be so quick to insinuate that we don't care about our fishing rights." i was replying to flounderslayerman and his comment about how we should all band together. if you took that as a response to you i certainly apologize.

i will say this...i listen to people all the time bitch about their fishing rights being taken away. i never see those fishermen at any public meetings. i also see fisherman who do not snapper fish not going to these public meeting to fight for snapper fishing rights but when it gets to there back yard...lets say flounder they want us all to band together!

in my opinion until it effects you it is not a problem.

we are fighting a war and when you fight a war you have to draw battle lines. RED SNAPPER should have been our battle line. our compromise is everything on your adversary's side is his and everything on your side is yours. the only time you move backward is if they are able to push you back.

the government is not going to give you anything back. they will continue to take from you. so what ever you give them as a compromise now becomes the new battle line.

my battle line is where any governmental official is trying to take any right from anybody who wants to use the water and beaches.

frydaddy...were is your battle line?

not trying to be an ass here
capt wes rozier


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## Captain DP

frydaddy said:


> Wes, don't be so quick to insinuate that we don't care about our fishing rights. I one for one didn't even know about a meeting, let alone what was going on. I don't get the newspaper and after working my 12-13 hour days (I'm another one that doesn't fish for a living, I have a full-time job)frydaddy


Ouch! Just because Wes has a better office doesn't mean he doesn't have a full time job! 

I couldn't make it Tuesday but I have sent my email. One man should'nt be able to make these decisions about how we use "our" islands.


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## Faithnfishin

I missed this too, but I appreciate the information on what is being proposed or is already on the books. And the links to voice our concerns are very important, if all else fails in my life I at least know I can survive on fish....only if I am allowed to fish.
I think we can all appreciate the emotions that this topic stirs considering the shambles we see today.... Thank you to those of you providing the information. I will certainly let my voice be heard.


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## flounderslayerman

Thinks jjam for the link. I voiced my concern. Wes,I personally know someone who sits on the Gulf Council. I have voiced my thoughts to him on snapper. He is one of the best snapper fisherman I have ever seen. The problem is it falls on def ears because he is a comercial snapper fisherman. Him being comercial and sitting on the council is a major problem. He's a part of the reason they don't change the rules. Why would he hurt his own lively hood.


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## captwesrozier

flounderslayerman

i understand the frustration...been there done that! even when it falls on def ears we cannot stop. we just send more people the next time. i feel when the government sees actual humans standing before them with all their passion the government knows they are being watched!

also i am not mad with you keep up the fight the best way you can:thumbup:

see you on the water
capt wes rozier


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## flounderslayerman

I'm not mad with you either Wes. We're all fighting the same fight. Some can Fight a little harder then others. The government seems to be wanting to put their grubby little fingers in every aspect of our lives. All we can do is keep fighting them and maybe we can get some changes. The rules for snapper is the most ridiculles thing I have ever seen in fishing regs. Good weather and tight lines Wes. I'll see you on the water.


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## Pinksnappertrapper

I dont gig but if i did i would go were the fish are. Its complete bullshit that they try/do control everything. No wes i wasnt at the meeting and its better i dont call the assholes cause it will do more damage than good.


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## Chris Phillips

flounderslayerman,
Who on the council is a commercial red snapper fisherman?


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## Crab Man

I think we should just take the whole damn national seashore back from the feds.


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## devndeb

Maybe I missed it somewhere above, but how far out from the shoreline can they control? Seems to me they are overstepping their bounds, seeing how the state "owns" the land under the water here in Fla??? Food for thought and discussion...


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## Crab Man

They control everything inside of the ft pickens marine preserve, which extends just far enough into the bay to include all of sand bars people flounder on. I think it extends 1 nm into the gulf.


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## mekell

*Pickens*

Park Ranger compelled me to leave Pickens last night. I had read Wes's post and wondered if the Park Service would enforce this law. They did after I made them force me to by issuing me a threat of lawful action against me. 

I would have never forced this action on their part if I had not been so PO'd over the situation. It seems that government is out of control and is constantly mandating laws that interfere with a citizens personal rights.

I hope to participate in anything to change this. I will stand with Wes and help in any way I can.

I also wonder if this is not about imposing regs on flounder with out the usual opposition that the rule makers face when they change regs. Think of how many flounder are killed each fall in the areas that are in this closure. If it were about protecting the seagrass wouldn't the order include all fishing ? The ranger stated that I was free to fish and that the rule applied to gigging only.

What a bunch of crap this is.


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## flounderslayerman

Chris I was wrong. I made a phone call last night and he is not part of the council anymore. He's been off of it for over a year. Sorry should've checked first.


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## johnsonbeachbum

mekell said:


> Park Ranger compelled me to leave Pickens last night. I had read Wes's post and wondered if the Park Service would enforce this law. They did after I made them force me to by issuing me a threat of lawful action against me.
> 
> I would have never forced this action on their part if I had not been so PO'd over the situation. It seems that government is out of control and is constantly mandating laws that interfere with a citizens personal rights.
> 
> I hope to participate in anything to change this. I will stand with Wes and help in any way I can.
> 
> I also wonder if this is not about imposing regs on flounder with out the usual opposition that the rule makers face when they change regs. Think of how many flounder are killed each fall in the areas that are in this closure. If it were about protecting the seagrass wouldn't the order include all fishing ? The ranger stated that I was free to fish and that the rule applied to gigging only.
> 
> What a bunch of crap this is.


The rule was imposed to protect other visitors from crazed fisherfolk that are using gigs and various other types of spears.
Read page 13 and 14 and that is what is stated as the reason.
http://www.nps.gov/guis/parkmgmt/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=338198

Those rules were imposed in Feb.

Even more strange and unfair is that kite surfing is prohibited in a vast swath of GINS area because it is dangerous to other visitors.
And disturbs too many birds.
Yet those same areas are openly endorsed and approved for water skiing and wakeboarding activities.


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## The Barb

I sent a e-mail myself on this subject and yes I was not at the meeting,I am a dis-abled Vet and trying to take care of my father,85 yrs old, but was not aware of the meeting,I ask in my e-mail to be notified of any future meeting and I will make arrangements to be there,I also ask that a study be done on new grass beds including all the way to the mouth of the rivers,I know of several areas that use to be white sand that are now grass beds,lets look at all the new grass beds in other areas,even on the intercoastal waterway,the grass beds might be thin towards the pass due to current and other conditions but the new beds are taking over in places,if they looked at all the other grassbeds then they would have no grounds in my opinion for what its worth,I hate to bring this up but I heard some people complained that they where not catching as many flounder by sight fishing with cast nets,(throwing over the flounder with the net) in the day because of all the boats and people wading with tubs giging the flounder,I was told by a neighbor that even at Ft. Pickens Pier there has been several arguments about people with nets not wanting to take turns,to the fact that people are walking East and wading out and standing with nets sight fishing for flounder,He caught one with his net and left due to all the fuss,so it might be( only makes sinse ) if no gigers then more flounders for people to throw cast nets over in that area,just an opinion,no proof,I am for the right for everyone to fish,or flounder gig,camp, or what ever,lets not forget all the lives who have been lost for what little bit of freedom we have so if I read or get a e-mail for the next meeting I will be there,I bet the next meeting will have a better turn out from fisherman if the word gets out,because if we dont stop it now next will be no throwing of cast nets,we have enough to worry about already....Please let me know if there is any thing else I can do...


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## Chris Phillips

No problem Flounderslayerman! I've spent a lot of time lately looking into the Gulf Council and NOAA SE Fisheries members and didn't think there was anyone commercial on there. Nevertheless you are definitely right when you say commercial fisherman are making the decisions for the recreational sector. They show up to the meeting and comment on things that have nothing to do with them.


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## Faithnfishin

I sent my opinions with links provided, thanks. Please keep us informed. And in my opinion, I grew up on the intercoastal near Perdido Key though I now reside and do most of my fishing in the Destin - Ft Walton area, I have never been better satisfied with the fishing in this area. There are a lot of good things and dumb things going on, this is one of the worst I have heard in a while. I too have seen much evidence of grass beds returning to areas where they never existed. If it aint broke why fix it?


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## frydaddy

*pickens*

Wes,
guess i missed the post since it was under camping guidelines, i have just been doing quick checks on how many anybody was getting, i take part of the blame for not reading about the camping changes.

my battle line is with everything the gov tries to change, social security, retirement, right to bear arms, etc, and of course fishing. I was there for the battle on the snapper and will be there when i can for any kind of fish they are after since i try to catch everything out there. All fish are on the same level with me so they all get as much attention as i can dedicate toward saving our share of the catch. If the park is allowed to do this it will effect redfishing, trout, sheepshead,black drum, spanish, kings, mullet and of course flounder, not to mention the bait we wouldn't be allowed to catch. And your talking about the majority of the water on the island in our area. Even though i no longer camp, why the hell should you have to have a permit, pass or anything else to camp at a location that's only accessable by boat? (mc crae) just something else to take away from people.

The next move i'm sure will be in the gulf just like they did with live bait. What then, no cobia fishing within so many miles from the beach? No mackeral fishing, red fish, pompano, etc. It'll never end if they decide to close this beach down. It's never about just one species to me because they're just waiting to move on the next one. Look at the proposed limits for red grouper, about 6 mp for commerical and almost 2 mp for rec guys. 

I can appreciate your comment about people not saying anything until it comes to their door, and unfortunately that is the case for the majority, that's why these politicians get away with so much. But i like to think that i have a door for all fish, so it does concern me when any of the fish, or an area, is targeted for closure or limited access. 

I spent just about every summer out at pickens camping and fishing from the time i was 6 years old. Getting a little older now and can't afford a real camper so i haven't camped in the last 1o years or so but continue to fish the area and hopefully will be able to until i die. Everybody i know knows where the grass beds are and trim their motors up so i really don't see what the concern is. I like to protect the areas i fish so the fish will come there to be caught. I think we know what the real agenda is, stop all recreational fishing so you have to go to the market and buy it. 

Thanks for all the info from all of you guys and for the address to write to. I try to write to the powers to be at least monthly concerning fishing regulations and the tac and will be sending off my letter on this by weeks end. 

Frydaddy


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## Chris Phillips

I think with a little or A LOT of effort we're going to be able to work through this with the National Park Service...

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.co...ort-pickens-access-flounder-gigging**-102210/


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## Crab Man

It's not the first fishing activity they have restricted. No commercial fishing for anything (castnet, traps, or even hook and line) and they wouldn't let the bait boat operate near the pass or let the charter boats catch bait near the island. Technichally the inshore charter guides aren't allowed to operate their either, but they look like normal boats and probably get a pass.


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## gators06

*gigging down Fort Picken*



captwesrozier said:


> YOU cannot gig flounders from the west corner fort wall to the east corner fort wall.
> 
> You can gig flounders from the east corner wall headed east to the camp ground which is about 100 plus yards of beach.
> 
> You cannot gig flounders from the camp ground east to the park ranger station pier.
> 
> As you can see this is the flounder beach which means why go for 100 yards of beach!
> 
> you need to call Mr. Brown at the GINS. Let him know this is NOT FAIR!
> 
> You should have been at the meeting last night!


well CAPTWESROZIER this is wat i think about that is i have a annual pass for the year an a night owl pass an no where in the book does it say anything about not being able to gig flounder,also that law was made bk in the 80's for gill net fishing so untill someone stops me an writes me a ticket im going to continue to gig flounder there.:thumbup:


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## frydaddy

*pickens*

finally got out last night and of course went to pickens. what's all the equipment thats staged along the entire floundering area? i guess with it being anchored in the grass beds that the grass beds are not an issue, or am i wrong on that?

unless i'm wrong again, hasn't there been a law passed that if i have my carry permit i can carry on the park? if so, what's more dangerous, the gig or the lead that's not tied to the end of a fishing pole?

and didn't whoever say they were going to clarify enforcement issues before enforcing the change, don't seem like they wasted any time jumping on running people off from what i've read.

we didn't see the first fish last night as far as a report goes, no rangers either. funniest part of the trip was we didn't see any of these people they're concerned about getting gigged, i figured they would be walking all up and down the beach and out in the water for their nightly dip.


frydaddy


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## Crab Man

It is funny that they use safety as a reason and all the gigging goes on in november, lot's of swimmers this time of year!


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## frydaddy

*no response*

Certified the new superintendant a letter over three weeks ago, he has yet to respond. Just goes to show they can pacify the majority with an automatic e-mail response to blow smoke up your butt making you think they really read your e-mail.

They don't take time to respond to the written word, as usual.
No change in his position either.

Frydaddy


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