# NEED SOME HELP FOR THE GOOD OF ALL!!!! RIGHT NOW PLEASE



## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

ROBERT TURPIN CALLED ME THIS MORNING ABOUT THE NEW PERMIT CONDITIONS WE NEED REVIEWED AND SENT BACK TO THEM BY FRIDAY THE 12TH. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE EMAIL FISH AND WILDLIFE AND THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS IMMEDIATELY.

WE ARE GOING TO HOLD AN EMERGENCY MEETING THIS THURSDAY AT THE RFRA BUILDING WITH THE MARINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE SO PLEASE ATTEND ALSO IF YOU CAN.

THANKS CAPT. PAUL REDMAN


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

Robert called me this morning also, what time on Thursday Paul?


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

Paul,

I looked thru the permit, but I haven't read the previous permitting guidelines,the guidleines look pretty cumbersome, or should I say nearly impossible,for the avarage "Joe"; what are the changes from the previous permit?

Also, what if anything is different about this permit from other areas in Fl.?

I will try to make the meeting and represent the interests of SRC MAC, please post the time.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

6 p.m. Thursday at 1007 Pine St. in Pcola.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

btt.

This move would effectively end legal, self-deployed private reefs.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

If passed, the new rules could prevent the future use of ships, bridge rubble, and a lot of other traditional reef materials.

The whole things smells fishy to me - Pun intended - Somebody has an agenda


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

I plan on attending.


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## LITECATCH (Oct 2, 2007)

WOW! who made these people mad? that is about the most anti-reef document i have read.


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## Clay-Doh (Oct 2, 2007)

Is it the 1/2 inch thick steel that is the big change?


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## LITECATCH (Oct 2, 2007)

and the 500#'s. and a bunch of forms to fill out.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

> *Clay-Doh (1/8/2008)*Is it the 1/2 inch thick steel that is the big change?




From 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch, that's a healthy jump.

Lots of folks aren't going to be able to get 1/2 inch. That and it's just heavy shit.


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## WayneO (Oct 1, 2007)

Not to mention the requirement for inspecting the reef every year and submitting the info to the Corp and FWC. WTF!!! Also have a third party on board to monitor EACH deployment and verify compliance???!!! I'm with ya Scott, who pissed these guys off??? 

WayneO


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

This couldbe used by the enviros to stop future ship deployments- very little of the Oriskany is that thick. 

I fearthat the environmentalists have infiltrated the ACOE, DEP, and lord knows where else.


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## Aufishtic (Oct 2, 2007)

How about no reef deployments Nov- April beause ofthe possibility of a right whale. What ever the hell that is. When does the left whale come in?

I wouldn't be surprised if they said no powered vessel one mile of beach March - May because of Migratory Cobia.


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## User1265 (Oct 15, 2007)

HAHAHA Left Whale now that is funny. I was curious too so I looked it up. Here is the link. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_whale

No worries for them in the Gulf.


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## otto (Dec 3, 2007)

wow that whole thing is pretty ridiculous, someone must have s**t in their pancakes. I will definitely attend. I can't even believe I just read that!


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

I copied this contact information off of the FWC website, gives you a email and phone number to call, hope this helps.<P class=Body>For more information on Florida?s Artificial Reef Program, please contact:<P class=Body>Jon Dodrill, Environmental Administrator
Division of Marine Fisheries Management - Artificial Reef Program
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
620 South Meridian Street, Box 4B2
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1600
web: http://myfwc.com/marine/ar/index.asp
phone: (850) 922-4340 x207
fax: (850) 922-0463
email: [email protected]


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

They gotta be out of their minds with what there asking. Supervised deployments? What are Robert and Brad going to go on every trip and if so will we need an appointment to deploy? The 500lb. minimum is a joke to. I had a hell of a time with with one on the back at #290 and one on the front at #185 plus three other guys on board to shove them off. I'll be there Paul:hoppingmad


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## ammo angler (Oct 21, 2007)

I will see if i can get my car filled up with some of the navarre anglers


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## donedealin (Jan 3, 2008)

capt paul, this is dougie,ill be there if capt dennis will give me a ride.truck broke down


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Y'all bring everyone you got. 

I got some good news from the FWC when I started digging around today.

When I started asking questions, Jon Dodrill and Keith Mille -- the guys at FWC who are working with the Corps on this -- talked and reread the initial e-mail. I don't think it was too clear but ...

This was a preliminary draft and they are in the early stages of crafting a statewide reef program policy.

The bad news is there will be changes to a reef deployment policy that is working just fine now.

Robert Turpin has been invited to come to the Thursday meeting and he will share his response to the Corps' plan with us and take our input into account as well.

This will be the perfect opportunity for A) Some folks to join up and see what the RFRA is all about. B) To see first-hand how the RFRA and county governemnt can work together to get things that benefit everyone. C) Sign some petitions to that we will pass on the our state and national represntatives to address several reef issues we currently are working on.

What else? 

Thursday night 6p.m. 1007 Pine Street, Pensacola

455-6465


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

Holy Crap - Talk about using a bazooka when a poison dart will do. That looks very onerous. I have hernia surgery on Thursday and can't make it so here's a list of questions that I think need to be answered by the Corps, FWC and whoever else is making the decision on these requirements:

1. Is there a verifiable instance of existing manmade reefs posing any problem to navigation? If so - was an cost benefit analysis done on the benefits to the economy and fishery versus the cost (social or otherwise) of the navigation hazard posedand the cost imposed by the additional regulations.

2. Have anystatistical studies been performed orprobabilities calculated (even on a napkin) regarding the likelihood of harm to protected species from deployed reefs or the reef deployment process?

3. What studies, analysis, or engineering/scientific estimations were done to determine the minimum weight and material size (e.g. 1/2" rebar) requirements.

4. Have any studies been performed or planned to compare and contrast the relative benefits, costs, or other affects of the reef deployment and reef deployment processes employed by other States (e.g. Is there a better model out there in another state?)

5. Why is there such a short period for public comment - are not other regulations afforded longer public comment period and a more thorough community vetting via discussion at public pre announced meetings?

Please post the email addresses of those parties we can pose these questions to and voice our concern.

Thanks!


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

Im pissed..When i go to jail thursday will someone come get me out....I promisse i will make it worth it...


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## JOHNJOHN205 (Oct 2, 2007)

guess ill have to take off work but ill try to make it


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## TOBO (Oct 3, 2007)

:boo:boo:boo:boo I will try to make it, enough is enough!


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## Another Reef Two "Fish On!" (Dec 26, 2007)

Has anyone contacted WEAR-TV 3 about doing a news broadcast and GCN (Gulf Coast Network) as well on the impending problems that this will impose on the economy of the tri-county area and florida as a whole?

David


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## brnbser (Oct 1, 2007)

the problem I see is that this isn't based off of our area, it's more aligned for areas with reefs, coral, and higher numbers of the endangered species mentioned. It doesn't adequately address the problems of our flat sandy bottom. I can see where some of the issues have valid points in areas like the keys but don't address the panhandle. Policies like this need to address specific areas and shouldn't dictate a one size fit's all mentality. I'm all for making a stricter reefing program in attempt to stop illegal dumping but this proposed policy isn't the answer for our area.

I will be at the meeting on Thursday.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

If this takes effect, anything built into a reef would have to weight 4 timeswhat is legal now.:boo

1/2" steel plate weights over 20# per square foot. It is nearly impossible to find anything to recycle that is 1/2" thick.Abox the size of 1 transport coop with 50% holes (swiss cheese looking) would weight over 1800#. At scrap value of $3.00 per hundred, the recycle value of the reef would be $54.00. :hotsun

A "barely legal " weight reef would only have 25 square feet of surface. Not a very big reef.

A reef program like this would stop 99.9% of reef building. Maybe that is what they want.:doh

Sea-r-cy


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *brnbser (1/9/2008)*Policies like this need to address specific areas and shouldn't dictate a one size fit's all mentality. I'm all for making a stricter reefing program in attempt to stop illegal dumping but this proposed policy isn't the answer for our area.


Scott?? With a stricter reef deployment policy, wouldn't you think that it would increase illegal dumping.:banghead


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## brnbser (Oct 1, 2007)

NO I don't......:banghead exactly how many reef deployments have you been involved with? look at the intent asa whole and how it would effect areas other than ours.

by reading the proposed policy and applying it to the state as a whole, it's easy to understand where the problems are occuring and why it should be personalized to locations instead of blanketing the entire state.

how many areas off the Panhandle might you drop a artificial reef and endanger a manatee and calf ortheir habitat.............my point being.......maybe this policy is GOOD for some areas but not our location.

the uproar should be because this doesn't make sense in our area but in my opinion mightfor areas where you can dog paddle offshore30 yds and mess with manatee or screw up a natural reef.


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## Halfmoon (Oct 3, 2007)

Its just Governmental control! They want to control everything you do. Has nothing to do with anything else except control the people.

Power/ Egomaniacs. So you have to go ask every Govt. employee (please)to have permission to do anything to make them feel good and to justify their unjustified job.

As the days go by, this World is going to shit!

God Help the Untied States!!:usaflag

This Country needs to be bitched slapped and wake up!!!


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## Voodoo Lounge (Sep 28, 2007)

Bay Pirate and myself coined the phrase " One size does'nt fit all" At one of the red drum meetings last year and it stuck!! This is another one of those situations!!! I will be there, and hope to be heard once again!! This is another opportunity for all of us to pull together and make a difference before its written, not bitch about it once its done!!


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## Clay-Doh (Oct 2, 2007)

Me and Cooch will be there, and if my son gets home from work in time, him too.

Lookin foward to meetin ya Voodoo!


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## Barnacle Brain (Oct 2, 2007)

I plan on being there as well. It's time to be proactive, for everyone who ever has any intention on fishing this area GO TO THIS MEETING! 

Will there be any kind of membership drive or opportunity to join tonight?


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

We will have everything you need to become a member at the meeting as well as the RFRA recommendations for future artificial reef regs and things we'd like to see changed.


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

Well our cousins over there across the state line ought to love these new regs. With the outstanding reef program they already have in place I guess the new red snapper theme song will be "Sweet Home Alabama". No rigs, No reefs No fish. But damn we got some great looking sandy bottoms:doh I will do my best to attend I have already started a e-mailpropaganda drop. Everyone needs to be heard from on this subject. Commerical and rec boys let's weigh in together for a change.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

I'll be stopping by.

Jim


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## Barnacle Brain (Oct 2, 2007)

Any plans for a pre-meeting "meeting"?


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm proud of you guy's that turned out tonight. That was a very good showing.


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## JOHNJOHN205 (Oct 2, 2007)

had to work and could not get off what all was said?


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes - how did the meeting go? Was the input well received and how/when will the public comments/input be communicated to those deciding on the rules?


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

It appears that there is some "Bellybutton" to quote a phase.  [This person is still to be determined?] That has decided that this was a good idea. It also appears that they would error on the side of "Most resistant to damage to nature" hence the radical new changes.



Now we all don't want coral torn up, but we don't have much coral around here. [I will bow to those that know better]

We have a LOT of sand.



The problem is that this was designed to cover the WHOLE state of Florida. This is the #1 thing that needs to be changed.

We need the state cut into regions. Just like fishing and hunting is now.



What would work well here in the NW region of the Panhandle could be detrimental to the keys with it's live coral.



Once this #1 item is resolved then we can move on to attack the rest of it.



I also would like to say it was real nice seeing and talking to some faces that I hadn't seen in a while.


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks for the meeting feedback.Are there specific individuals we can be emailing, calling, and generally talking to request that the regulations be geography/location specific?


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

<DIV align=left><PRE><TT>Thanks to all who attended. I thikn we demonstrated our willingness to work with the rule makers and 
</TT><TT>Robert turpin showed his ability and willingness to hear our concerns.
We have a great opportunity to get in on the ground level of this process and make some positive changes.</TT></PRE><PRE><TT>That doesn't always happen when it comes to governemnt regulations. This is a rare opportunity, let's take advantage of it.</TT></PRE><PRE><TT></TT></PRE><PRE><TT>Here's who you need to send comments to. Go get'em boys.</TT></PRE><PRE><TT>In this order:</TT></PRE><PRE><TT></TT></PRE><PRE><TT></TT></PRE></DIV><TT><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Robert K. Turpin </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Division Manager </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Marine Resources Division </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">1190 West Leonard Street </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Pensacola, FL 32501 </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Office: (850) 595-4395 </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Fax: (850) 595-3495 </PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">[email protected] </PRE></DIV></TT><DIV align=left><PRE><TT></TT></PRE></DIV><DIV align=left><PRE><TT>Clif PayneSection ChiefNorth Permits BranchJacksonville DistrictCorps of Engineers<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1200154018_55 style="BACKGROUND: 0% 50%; CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(0,102,204) 1px dashed; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">41 North Jefferson Street Suite 111Pensacola, Florida 32502-5794<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1200154018_56 style="BACKGROUND: 0% 50%; CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(0,102,204) 1px dashed; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">[email protected] - <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1200154018_57 style="BACKGROUND: 0% 50%; CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(0,102,204) 1px dashed; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">850-433-8732</TT></PRE></DIV><P align=left><P align=left>[email protected]<P align=left><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Keith Mille , Environmental Specialist III
Division of Marine Fisheries - Artificial Reef Program
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1200153970_52 style="BACKGROUND: 0% 50%; CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(0,102,204) 1px dashed; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">620 South Meridian Street, Box 4B2
Tallahassee , FL 32399-1600


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

:bump


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

And just in case you missed it on the other thread:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=smalltxt vAlign=top><SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl1_lblFullMessage><PRE>The RFRA and Pensacola Recreational Fisherman's Association are planning a trip to the FWC meeting in Panama City on February 7 where they will make a final ruling on the red snapper for 2008 and we need your help.
We are trying to get a ton of members and interested parties to go and in order to make as easy on everyone as possible we want to get a few buses.
Buses cost money.
We are asking you to help us locate sponsors for this trip. For $250, a business or generous individual can send five representatives to the meeting at no cost to the rider.
I have attached a link to a file that you can download, print and take to anyone you think might be able to help.
Please, this is our last chance to fight this issue and we need to make it count.</PRE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Attachment included.

We understand that many of you own your business and time off is not an option. Well, send five people in your place.

When my daughter asks me one day why we can't go fishing, I won't be the one telling her it's because I didn't try.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Howdy,

We just had similar scoping meeting here in Texas regarding the NMFS push for federal regs in Texas State Waters concerning Red Snapper and Shark. We overwhelmed Texas Parks and Wildlife at the 4 meetings held this month, with a unified, resounding, NO! TPWD Coastal Fisheries made the recommendation at the TPWD Commissioners Meeting Wednesday not to adopt the federal regs and maintain Texas control over its own state waters.

Good luck to you over in Florida - stand strong!

Tom Hilton


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

Congrats Tom,

I hope our efforts dont go unnoticed, if they do it wont be from lack of effort Iassure you.

Thanks for the update.


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## yankee (Oct 1, 2007)

From all the coments it looks like there will be a lot of people there. :toast:clap


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## gmoney (Oct 3, 2007)

I will try and make it if my pregnant wife allows it Where is the meeting at? I need an address so i can map-quest it


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## jackedup (Jan 17, 2008)

the meeting was on the 7th,


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