# Thats it for me !



## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

15 deer total for the season.2 Bucks (Got one yesterday) and 13 does.I could go back next week but im pretty burnt out,I really dont wanna shoot another deer to clean it.Last year i hunted the last 2 weeks of season and saw 2 deer and shot one,Yesterday i had 14 deer in the field.They was moving like crazy.Had 4 bucks come out real late and had 5 spikes on the field with other does.It was nutz.was definitly a hell of a season.Kinda looking forward to next season,and all the planting and other stuff to see the ones growing velvet.Seen deer every day i was out there.The guy i leased to said he saw 10 does last thursday or friday.Anyway im gonna take a little break for the next few weeks.Got a ton of steaks and ground meat to work with so it was worth it.
Im gonna get 1 person to go in with me next year on this place and kick every one else off.Tired of freeloaders and BS.I hunted the 7000 acre club mostly for meat but my lease has some up and coming studs for sure.Its gonna be intersting for next year for sure.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Congrats - Even fun can get to be a grind eventually - Congrats on a great year!


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## Rickpcfl (Nov 12, 2013)

Whenever I was in hunting leases I hunted hard so that I would feel like I got my money's worth. I looked forward to the last day of hunting season as much as I did the first day.

I used to tell my friends that on the last day of season I felt like a bad relationship was ending.

I loved hunting, but let the desire to shoot deer control me. I gave it up for a while a few years back. I had taken off from work for two weeks so that I could hunt during the rut. I was sitting in the woods thinking about my children, and realizing that every Saturday and Sunday they were sitting around the house doing nothing because I was in the woods hunting. I was neglecting them to hunt. 

The fact that my wife didn't leave me shows what a good woman she is. Either that or she is really desperate for a husband. 

I do miss sitting in the woods. Especially while reading everyone's reports here on PFF. For now, I just live/hunt through everyone else.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

TatSoul said:


> 15 deer total for the season.2 Bucks (Got one yesterday) and 13 does.I could go back next week but im pretty burnt out,I really dont wanna shoot another deer to clean it.Last year i hunted the last 2 weeks of season and saw 2 deer and shot one,Yesterday i had 14 deer in the field.They was moving like crazy.Had 4 bucks come out real late and had 5 spikes on the field with other does.It was nutz.was definitly a hell of a season.Kinda looking forward to next season,and all the planting and other stuff to see the ones growing velvet.Seen deer every day i was out there.The guy i leased to said he saw 10 does last thursday or friday.Anyway im gonna take a little break for the next few weeks.Got a ton of steaks and ground meat to work with so it was worth it.
> Im gonna get 1 person to go in with me next year on this place and kick every one else off.Tired of freeloaders and BS.I hunted the 7000 acre club mostly for meat but my lease has some up and coming studs for sure.Its gonna be intersting for next year for sure.


What do you do with all that meat. You can't possibly eat it all.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Rickpcfl said:


> Whenever I was in hunting leases I hunted hard so that I would feel like I got my money's worth. I looked forward to the last day of hunting season as much as I did the first day.
> 
> I used to tell my friends that on the last day of season I felt like a bad relationship was ending.
> 
> ...


 DANG!
When I read that I had to keep looking to make sure I didn't post that and forgot.... scared me - thought I had Alzhiemers! 
Great post - thanks for sharing!


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

Rickpcfl said:


> Whenever I was in hunting leases I hunted hard so that I would feel like I got my money's worth. I looked forward to the last day of hunting season as much as I did the first day.
> 
> I used to tell my friends that on the last day of season I felt like a bad relationship was ending.
> 
> ...


why not get them involved


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

Chapman5011 said:


> What do you do with all that meat. You can't possibly eat it all.


I imagine he has family. I got a guy I work with that killed 27 one year. Used every bit of it. Some people actually don't hunt just horns.


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## Rickpcfl (Nov 12, 2013)

fisheye48 said:


> why not get them involved


Fair question. I took them a few times to sit in the shooting house, but they didn't enjoy it. My son is autistic and just wasn't interested.

He has matured some and might be interested in going now, but I can't see him sitting for more than an hour if things are slow. 

We go boating/fishing a lot now, and I'd much rather clean and eat fish than deer anyway (unless it is sausage or cube steak). I can definitely put more fish than deer in the freezer.


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## Rickpcfl (Nov 12, 2013)

Downtime2 said:


> I imagine he has family. I got a guy I work with that killed 27 one year. Used every bit of it. Some people actually don't hunt just horns.


Yeah. I worked with a woman who usually had 8-10 deer in the freezer every year. She said that they ate deer 3-4 times a week and loved it.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Chapman5011 said:


> What do you do with all that meat. You can't possibly eat it all.


thats All my kids and wife will eat.I take all the meat off the deer and bag it,drop the frozen bags off at the processer and he just grinds it.My wife will make everything you can imagine with it from tacos to spaghetti to meatloafs.they eat it 3 times a week.sometimes 4.Havnt bought ground beef in a while.I cut all the backstraps into steaks and eat them twice a week.Im not a chicken kind of person so we eat alot of deer at my house.
I think the meat is alot more healthier without the hormones and stuff.Im really happy that my 7 year old son loves it.Hes not much into hunting but he loves deer meat.Im hoping one day he will come around but not forcing it on him.


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## Fielro (Jun 4, 2012)

Congratulations on a great year


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Your getting done I feel like I'm just starting. Getting to hunt til feb. 10 in south Alabama this year, This next three weeks will be the best chance I have to kill a deer since I only shoot mature bucks and I don't shoot does. I haven't killed a deer in two years of hunting pretty hard and letting them walk but I have a feeling I'm gonna burn some powder in February! 

Lots of talk about the hunters of Alabama wanting to cut way back on doe killing and many are supporting going back to the old 10 day doe season. Seems the doe killing fad might be winding down.


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## jmunoz (Jan 11, 2012)

Dang tat you been doing some killing brother congrats and enjoy your time off im still trying to break the ice this season and I've hunted twice as hard as I have in the past two seasons


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

Congrats man , I am just glad you are not my neighbor so I have another easy season next year


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Your getting done I feel like I'm just starting. Getting to hunt til feb. 10 in south Alabama this year, This next three weeks will be the best chance I have to kill a deer since I only shoot mature bucks and I don't shoot does. I haven't killed a deer in two years of hunting pretty hard and letting them walk but I have a feeling I'm gonna burn some powder in February!
> 
> Lots of talk about the hunters of Alabama wanting to cut way back on doe killing and many are supporting going back to the old 10 day doe season. Seems the doe killing fad might be winding down.


_I _think the state tried to paint the doe numbers with a broad brush.I think it has alot to do with the area and fawn recruitment.Like where im at I cannot possibly see putting any kind of dent in the doe herd out there.I mean i can kill 3 does on the same plot that had pics of 7 to 10 does so you would think that there would be 4 or 5 left in the area.Wrong.a week later there will be 10 or 12 more out there.I seen a crap load of fawns also this year something i am not use to seeing.seemed every doe i saw had twins in tow.One had triplets.Now you can go a mile down the road and the guys are saying they have no does at all but overrun with spike and 2 year old bucks.
I really think the clubs and landowners should be responsible for assesing the numbers and deciding on what they wanna kill.I feel like i have more deer on my lease now than i had when the season started and between me and the others that hunted it we took around 12 does and 5 bucks.I see more on camera than in early season and cant walk a road now with crossing a set of tracks every 30 yards.I do feel like the doe ratio is a little closer to where it needs to be though.Had 7 bucks in a field the other afternoon from spikes to 7 points.I think next year im going to be geared more to age of the deer than rack size and try that for a while.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

Downtime2 said:


> I imagine he has family. I got a guy I work with that killed 27 one year. Used every bit of it. Some people actually don't hunt just horns.[/QUOTE Nope no way unless he has 15 kids. I am sure me and my family eat way more deer meat than the average family and 6 is plenty for the year


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

gastonfish said:


> Downtime2 said:
> 
> 
> > I imagine he has family. I got a guy I work with that killed 27 one year. Used every bit of it. Some people actually don't hunt just horns.[/QUOTE Nope no way unless he has 15 kids. I am sure me and my family eat way more deer meat than the average family and 6 is plenty for the year
> ...


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

gastonfish said:


> Downtime2 said:
> 
> 
> > I imagine he has family. I got a guy I work with that killed 27 one year. Used every bit of it. Some people actually don't hunt just horns.[/QUOTE Nope no way unless he has 15 kids. I am sure me and my family eat way more deer meat than the average family and 6 is plenty for the year
> ...


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

I can see that maybe as long as is not going to waste. I have way too many deer on the property I hunt and need to kill many more but cant justify killing more than we eat including a couple I clean and give away each year. If you do I am with you.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

and No I am a big fat [email protected]$%#[email protected]%


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Tat, you haven't hunted in Alabama for very long have you?


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Tat, you haven't hunted in Alabama for very long have you?


naw but the guys i hunt with have been hunting up there in the same club for 40 years.I get a history lesson every week.Heard the place use to be overrun with does.Doug the guy next to me said the body weights on the deer has gone up alot in the past 10 years.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Your getting done I feel like I'm just starting. Getting to hunt til feb. 10 in south Alabama this year, This next three weeks will be the best chance I have to kill a deer since I only shoot mature bucks and I don't shoot does. I haven't killed a deer in two years of hunting pretty hard and letting them walk but I have a feeling I'm gonna burn some powder in February!
> 
> Lots of talk about the hunters of Alabama wanting to cut way back on doe killing and many are supporting going back to the old 10 day doe season. Seems the doe killing fad might be winding down.


We need to kill way more does than we do. Not near enough have been taken this year.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> We need to kill way more does than we do. Not near enough have been taken this year.


I went back and looked at the books on the 7000 acres i hunt in on the club and less than 50 does were taken.I run cameras alot and the majority of them are loaded up with does.All everyone has been seeing.During december no one wants to shoot em cause everyones hunting horns.Club pres told me he wish more people would shoot em but alot of people dont wanna pay 3 dollars a pound for the processor either.Dont bother me,ill tag em and bag em.steak n eggs for breakfast.


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

gastonfish said:


> Nope no way unless he has 15 kids. I am sure me and my family eat way more deer meat than the average family and 6 is plenty for the year


Well, he don't have 15 kids and it all always gets ate. Sorry to dissapoint ya'.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

TatSoul said:


> I went back and looked at the books on the 7000 acres i hunt in on the club and less than 50 does were taken.I run cameras alot and the majority of them are loaded up with does.All everyone has been seeing.During december no one wants to shoot em cause everyones hunting horns.Club pres told me he wish more people would shoot em but alot of people dont wanna pay 3 dollars a pound for the processor either.Dont bother me,ill tag em and bag em.steak n eggs for breakfast.


I did an assessment for a 2000 acre lease in Demopolis AL and they needed to take out 120 does just to keep the population from growing.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

I have a buddy that's shoots deer all the time. I personally feel like he kills to many. But he donates almost 100% of the meat. Some where he knows, they take in deer , and turn it in to the feed the poor program. It may be a processor that takes it in. I'm not sure


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

And I thought I had a great year. My family can only eat about 3 per year and I feel we eat it very often...I get it all processed...don't like the steaks/loins.

The last deer I took I did as a favor for a friend who wanted some meat. They were very much appreciative, but I just didn't feel right taking a life and not actually consuming it myself. Neither the public land or private land I hunt is over run with deer, so I was hurting the herds and didn't want to be a glutton. 

If I had OP's problem of too many does, I would definitely have no problem reducing the population as I have several friends wanting a whole deer.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

bcbz71 said:


> And I thought I had a great year. My family can only eat about 3 per year and I feel we eat it very often...I get it all processed...don't like the steaks/loins.
> 
> The last deer I took I did as a favor for a friend who wanted some meat. They were very much appreciative, but I just didn't feel right taking a life and not actually consuming it myself. Neither the public land or private land I hunt is over run with deer, so I was hurting the herds and didn't want to be a glutton.
> 
> If I had OP's problem of too many does, I would definitely have no problem reducing the population as I have several friends wanting a whole deer.


The steaks are the best part.I cut my backstraps in 8 inch chunks than slice in half.gives me a 1/2 inch thick by 8 inch steak.I heat the grill and put em on about 3 minutes a side.Best steak in the world.If you over cook em they taste like crap.I would rather eat deer steaks than any other.
Believe it or not there is a guy at my camp that has a daughter with a speech problem.The neurologist reccommended a specific kind of steak for her that doesnt have the hormones and crap found in steak you buy from the grocery store.Deer are the same way.Nothing injected in that meat but a 150 gr Power point.
You also have to consider im hunting for 12 months not just the off season.My kids and wife eat deer all thru hunting season.I eat deer steaks at least 3 times a week.Sometimes more if i want it for breakfast.Last year i killed 5 deer and they were all gone before august.the steaks were all eaten up before season even ended.
If i pull steaks out the freezer and as soon as they come off the grill there gone around my house.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> I did an assessment for a 2000 acre lease in Demopolis AL and they needed to take out 120 does just to keep the population from growing.


Why would you not want the population to grow? Is there a browse line?


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> We need to kill way more does than we do.


Why?


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

TatSoul said:


> The steaks are the best part.
> If i pull steaks out the freezer and as soon as they come off the grill there gone around my house.


Sorry if you thought I was judging you...I wasn't. Just relating that I had all my family could eat and when I took a 4th, I felt bad about it for days because that buck didn't really have to die. In your case, you have to thin that herd even if you couldn't eat all of them. I wouldn't feel bad at all if I knew I was helping the herd by thinning them. I love hunting and am going through withdrawals sitting at home in Jan/Feb. 

But back to the backstrap/tenderloin: I grew up on a farm and venison was not a treat...it's what kept us from starving, along with Canada geese, mallards and the garden. Guess I have a mental block with it...I used to keep the straps/loins but always found they were the last thing we ate or we gave them away. Now I have them ground up into burger, sausage, or made into snack sticks. I just got my last deer back last week and am going through snack sticks about 1/2 a pack a day. Love them!


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

TatSoul said:


> naw but the guys i hunt with have been hunting up there in the same club for 40 years.I get a history lesson every week.Heard the place use to be overrun with does.Doug the guy next to me said the body weights on the deer has gone up alot in the past 10 years.


The reason I ask is that years ago I hunted in Selma and seeing 8 or 10 deer in a plot was a slow afternoon. 

Now in many parts of Alabama we have less does, less bucks, less deer. I don't know what was accomplished with all this doe killing that was suppose to make everything so great.


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## espo16 (Apr 21, 2008)

bcbz71 said:


> But back to the backstrap/tenderloin: I used to keep the straps/loins but always found they were the last thing we ate or we gave them away. Now I have them ground up into burger, sausage, or made into snack sticks.


:ban:


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Why?


Higher doe numbers equals a lower population carrying capacity for bucks, and less of an opportunity to see mature bucks.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> The reason I ask is that years ago I hunted in Selma and seeing 8 or 10 deer in a plot was a slow afternoon.
> 
> Now in many parts of Alabama we have less does, less bucks, less deer. I don't know what was accomplished with all this doe killing that was suppose to make everything so great.


I hear alot of people complaining of low numbers but i really think the deer are still there its just more deer are nocturnal.Long seasons and more shots being fired in the woods.Land is hard to come by.I hear the old timers talk about having 12000 acres to hunt on and having 40 members.land was 4 dollars an acre and people had plenty of it.Now clubs have less land with more hunters to offset the cost of high lease prices so the deer are more nocturnal.Mature deer feel the pressures and are a rare sight unless its full swing in the rut.I feel like maybe in isolated areas where coyote numbers are high and places for fawns to hide is low there might be a problem,but i think keeping doe numbers in check will increase the health of the herd and put more body weight on mature deer.Im no expert but relaying what ive seen myself and little experience.I think propertys with high acreage and less hunters will see alot more deer no matter where it is.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> Higher doe numbers equals a lower population carrying capacity for bucks, and less of an opportunity to see mature bucks.


I find this very hard to believe. I assume you can site me some research and studies stating this conclusion for central and southern Alabama?

So if I have less does that drop less fawns I will wind up with more bucks? Seems unlikely. In 20 years I have never seen a browse line in the state of Alabama, that would lead one to challenge the theory that a property has met its "carrying capacity". 

"Doe management" was an easy sell because it required that people shoot more deer in the name of better deer hunting.

I remember when I was a young kid I saw 200 deer in the daylight one morning standing in the field or camp house was in. Does, bucks, yearlings, fawns...This was before "doe management", those days are long gone now.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

TatSoul said:


> I hear alot of people complaining of low numbers but i really think the deer are still there its just more deer are nocturnal.Long seasons and more shots being fired in the woods.Land is hard to come by.I hear the old timers talk about having 12000 acres to hunt on and having 40 members.land was 4 dollars an acre and people had plenty of it.Now clubs have less land with more hunters to offset the cost of high lease prices so the deer are more nocturnal.Mature deer feel the pressures and are a rare sight unless its full swing in the rut.I feel like maybe in isolated areas where coyote numbers are high and places for fawns to hide is low there might be a problem,but i think keeping doe numbers in check will increase the health of the herd and put more body weight on mature deer.Im no expert but relaying what ive seen myself and little experience.I think propertys with high acreage and less hunters will see alot more deer no matter where it is.


I wish you and I could go back 20 years and drive from Camden to Selma on 41 in the evening BEFORE dark. It would change everything you think you know about the status of the deer population in Alabama.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Matt Mcleod said:


> I find this very hard to believe. I assume you can site me some research and studies stating this conclusion for central and southern Alabama?
> 
> So if I have less does that drop less fawns I will wind up with more bucks? Seems unlikely. In 20 years I have never seen a browse line in the state of Alabama, that would lead one to challenge the theory that a property has met its "carrying capacity".
> 
> ...


Study about carrying capacity in Alabama? Nah, just a biology student. Talk to any deer management expert and they will all agree that as close as you get to a 1:1 ratio, the more bucks you will see. Also, the more deer you kill with a bow, the more willing older bucks will be to come into a plot.


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## Grassflatsfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

Matt Mcleod said:


> The reason I ask is that years ago I hunted in Selma and seeing 8 or 10 deer in a plot was a slow afternoon.
> 
> Now in many parts of Alabama we have less does, less bucks, less deer. I don't know what was accomplished with all this doe killing that was suppose to make everything so great.





Matt Mcleod said:


> The reason I ask is that years ago I hunted in Selma and seeing 8 or 10 deer in a plot was a slow afternoon.
> 
> Now in many parts of Alabama we have less does, less bucks, less deer. I don't know what was accomplished with all this doe killing that was suppose to make everything so great.


I absolutely agree with this. We killed lots more big bucks 10+ years ago than we do now. We saw tons more deer also.

Tat, I don't agree with the nocturnal statement... Well I do, they are more nocturnal, but the numbers are not there like they use to be. Having year round doe days is dumb and should never been implemented like it was. Wish they would go back to established doe days or weeks and have a spread or point requirement along with a buck limit that actually works. It's just my opinion though.


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## Grassflatsfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> Study about carrying capacity in Alabama? Nah, just a biology student. Talk to any deer management expert and they will all agree that as close as you get to a 1:1 ratio, the more bucks you will see. Also, the more deer you kill with a bow, the more willing older bucks will be to come into a plot.


Science has been proven wrong over and over. 1:1 inside a pen or a 10,000 acre ranch owned by Bill Jordan is a lot different than your average piece of leased land. As Matt said, driving down hwy 41 through the Golden Triangle 10-20 years ago would change your mind on what the talking heads I mean biologist assume they know or have been taught. Again 10-15yrs ago we saw 10x the deer and killed 5x the number of big bucks. When they opened doe season up it ruined deer hunting as we knew it.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> I find this very hard to believe. I assume you can site me some research and studies stating this conclusion for central and southern Alabama?
> 
> So if I have less does that drop less fawns I will wind up with more bucks? Seems unlikely. In 20 years I have never seen a browse line in the state of Alabama, that would lead one to challenge the theory that a property has met its "carrying capacity".
> 
> ...


You could compare it to blackwater or other florida management areas.They have 1 doe week and numbers do not seem to be increasing,In theory you would think with no does being killed there would be Deer being killed out there by the truck load.Some guys sit out there for months and never see squat.
I can guarantee the number of deer you can count on the side of the road at 10 pm is the same number it was 10 years ago.The club my buddy Nick was in was loaded with deer.They also had 10 members and 3000 acres.That gives you alot less pressure and way more daytime deer sightings.I dont think each hunter can kill enough does honestly.Most of the guys in the club i was in didnt kill any does and the ones that did only killed a handful.Your not going to see deer everytime you sit on a property with 30+ members riding around every weekend.
I got some pictures of some serious bucks on there property and they were all Night Only.Those bucks know what is up.
Just because alabama has the 2 does a day limit it doesnt mean every hunter in the club is killing 1 doe a week.Trust me most of are lucky to kill 2 does and half of em ride to the stand at 8 am and drive right to the box house.They never check the wind they just pick a spot.
Now the 3 buck limit i think is way to much.I would rather see it at 2.Most guys kill average bucks and just throw the racks in a pile.if a club had 1200 acres and 3 buck limit with 10 members plus family do you really think there is 40+ shooter bucks running around on 1200 acres.Probably not.take it back to 2 or 1 and i can see better class deer being taken.


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> We need to kill way more does than we do. Not near enough have been taken this year.


100 percent wrong


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> Study about carrying capacity in Alabama? Nah, just a biology student. Talk to any deer management expert and they will all agree that as close as you get to a 1:1 ratio, the more bucks you will see. Also, the more deer you kill with a bow, the more willing older bucks will be to come into a plot.


Believe me, I am very familiar with what the "experts" say.

You went to someone's land where they paid you to advise them on the best management for there deer heard, you told them to kill a doe for every 16 acres (extremely high) and you don't have any research or data to support this? How did you come to this conclusion? I really would like to know, maybe I can learn something.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Grassflatsfisher said:


> Science has been proven wrong over and over. 1:1 inside a pen or a 10,000 acre ranch owned by Bill Jordan is a lot different than your average piece of leased land. As Matt said, driving down hwy 41 through the Golden Triangle 10-20 years ago would change your mind on what the talking heads I mean biologist assume they know or have been taught. Again 10-15yrs ago we saw 10x the deer and killed 5x the number of big bucks. When they opened doe season up it ruined deer hunting as we knew it.


But just because you have more deer doesnt mean the deer herd is healthy.I know my club records the weight of every deer that is killed,collects the jawbones and records all the data.I know for a fact and everyone in the club agrees that does and bucks weigh alot more than they use to.Doug has been in the club for 12 years and told me an average doe would weigh 70 lbs and now they are killing 120 and 130 lb does with averages at 80 to 90.Maybe the numbers are not there like it use to be but i think the size and health of the deer is better.
Pilgrim the guy who leased the property below me is overrun with 2 year old bucks.He has sent me over 30 pictures of different bucks with 3 points and spikes and 6 points.Where are all the mature bucks u have to ask.They didnt just vanish into thin air.There out there they are just smart enough to have survived 2 or 3 seasons to know that death is in that open area.


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

Grassflatsfisher said:


> Science has been proven wrong over and over. 1:1 inside a pen or a 10,000 acre ranch owned by Bill Jordan is a lot different than your average piece of leased land. As Matt said, driving down hwy 41 through the Golden Triangle 10-20 years ago would change your mind on what the talking heads I mean biologist assume they know or have been taught. Again 10-15yrs ago we saw 10x the deer and killed 5x the number of big bucks. When they opened doe season up it ruined deer hunting as we knew it.


100 percent correct. You can throw that biology crap in the can. Those of us that have been hunting the same land for over 40 yrs know the truth. I have land in Crenshaw county and have hunted the Braggs/Ft deposit area since I was a kid. Hunting was a lot better when we had doe days.


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

TatSoul said:


> But just because you have more deer doesnt mean the deer herd is healthy.I know my club records the weight of every deer that is killed,collects the jawbones and records all the data.I know for a fact and everyone in the club agrees that does and bucks weigh alot more than they use to.Doug has been in the club for 12 years and told me an average doe would weigh 70 lbs and now they are killing 120 and 130 lb does with averages at 80 to 90.Maybe the numbers are not there like it use to be but i think the size and health of the deer is better.
> Pilgrim the guy who leased the property below me is overrun with 2 year old bucks.He has sent me over 30 pictures of different bucks with 3 points and spikes and 6 points.Where are all the mature bucks u have to ask.They didnt just vanish into thin air.There out there they are just smart enough to have survived 2 or 3 seasons to know that death is in that open area.


Actually the deer weighed more back 20 yrs ago in that area than now. We had more farming going on back then. Most fields are now pine trees.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

TatSoul said:


> You could compare it to blackwater or other florida management areas.They have 1 doe week and numbers do not seem to be increasing,In theory you would think with no does being killed there would be Deer being killed out there by the truck load.Some guys sit out there for months and never see squat.
> 
> 
> I can guarantee the number of deer you can count on the side of the road at 10 pm is the same number it was 10 years ago.


First off BW is a perfect example of my point. Young bucks are massacred every year in there. 5 inches of horn equals dead deer. The only way the place can sustain is because there is so little does killed. 

Second. How can you guarantee me anything about what things were like 10 years ago when you weren't there?? I was there then and now and I can guarantee you you're wrong...


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

sbarrow said:


> 100 percent correct. You can throw that biology crap in the can. Those of us that have been hunting the same land for over 40 yrs know the truth. I have land in Crenshaw county and have hunted the Braggs/Ft deposit area since I was a kid. Hunting was a lot better when we had doe days.


Im in Braggs area and Dont think there is an issue.I cant speak on the old days but i never have a problem seeing deer where i hunt.Now there is places in florida ive hunted that issue tags for deer based on acreage and what not and allow you to kill 2 bucks a day and i could go 2 weeks with out seeing 1 deer!
In braggs i could sit and see 10 deer a day.The deer herd has to match the carrying capacity of the land.

One thing i would like to mention and i think this has had a major impact on the old days you guys speak of but 20 years ago a huge part of alabama in the selma and portland landing area was in soy beans.Alot of farmers and crop areas were everywhere.Alot of the farmers were paid money to turn those farms into pine plantation long term investments.
I think if you really look at it deer cant live off pine straw and the majority of timber companys poison the crap out of cutovers.I dont think you can truly blame the low numbers on doe days because farmers with depradation permits cant put a dent in the deer numbers they have around there farms.
There was a huge discussion on aldeer about how all the crops in alabama went to timber production and if people thought it would ever go back to soy bean farms.
I think you guys are giving hunters to much credit.almost 90 percent ofthe guys i know that hunt around there couldnt kill more than 4 or 5 does a season if they wanted to.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> First off BW is a perfect example of my point. Young bucks are massacred every year in there. 5 inches of horn equals dead deer. The only way the place can sustain is because there is so little does killed.
> 
> Second. How can you guarantee me anything about what things were like 10 years ago when you weren't there?? I was there then and now and I can guarantee you you're wrong...


I guess everyone in the club i hunt in is lying to me.these guys are complete old school and this club is over 40 years old.These dudes sit around and talk about the old days and all the farms and fields of soy beans all growing in pines,How there use to be square miles of hardwoods all in planted pines also.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

sbarrow said:


> Actually the deer weighed more back 20 yrs ago in that area than now. We had more farming going on back then. Most fields are now pine trees.


That is Not true.They have been record keeping on this club i hunt the past 15 years.These dudes got it down to a science.Everything goes in the book unless there scales are broke.every member gets a graph at the end of the season and it shows the average weight and the month the most bucks are killed,ages of the deer etc.everyone i talk to say the deer are bigger now than 10 years ago


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

TatSoul said:


> I guess everyone in the club i hunt in is lying to me.these guys are complete old school and this club is over 40 years old.These dudes sit around and talk about the old days and all the farms and fields of soy beans all growing in pines,How there use to be square miles of hardwoods all in planted pines also.


Did these "old school guys" tell you there are just as many deer now as there was 20 years ago? If so than yes I'm throwing the BS flag all over that. If not what are you arguing about? 

Thanks for the history lesson on the agricultural changes in south Alabama. Again I was there, I didn't need someone to tell me about it. The reduction in row crops didn't help the deer population, neither did putting bullets in every doe that stepped out.


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Did these "old school guys" tell you there are just as many deer now as there was 20 years ago? If so than yes I'm throwing the BS flag all over that. If not what are you arguing about?
> 
> Thanks for the history lesson on the agricultural changes in south Alabama. Again I was there, I didn't need someone to tell me about it. The reduction in row crops didn't help the deer population, neither did putting bullets in every doe that stepped out.


Most say there were more deer back than but dont blame it on doe days since on the 7000 acres i hunt there was a max of 50 does killed total probably less.Thats like 1.5 per member.On my lease there was a max of 5 killed on 700 and the 545 below me they killed 1.Most clubs i hear of set limits for members anyway.
Most blame the hardwoods butchered and turned to pines and all the clearcut poisoning and the 300 acres of soy bean fields that were there and turned into pine trees.those areas are pretty big and i wish i was there back than.Leroy is like 70 and talks about how you would see 100 deer out in them fields.
Like i said im pretty sure alot of hunters do not kill as many does as you guys think.How many does does your club take Matt?


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

Let's not forget that old dudes tend to over exaggerate or under exaggerate the past....and so do young dudes


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

TatSoul said:


> That is Not true.They have been record keeping on this club i hunt the past 15 years.These dudes got it down to a science.Everything goes in the book unless there scales are broke.every member gets a graph at the end of the season and it shows the average weight and the month the most bucks are killed,ages of the deer etc.everyone i talk to say the deer are bigger now than 10 years ago


I'm not relying on here say. I've been in this area my whole life. This will be my last comment on this subject. There has always been 120-130 lb does in that area.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Matt Mcleod said:


> I find this very hard to believe. I assume you can site me some research and studies stating this conclusion for central and southern Alabama? So if I have less does that drop less fawns I will wind up with more bucks? Seems unlikely. In 20 years I have never seen a browse line in the state of Alabama, that would lead one to challenge the theory that a property has met its "carrying capacity". "Doe management" was an easy sell because it required that people shoot more deer in the name of better deer hunting. I remember when I was a young kid I saw 200 deer in the daylight one morning standing in the field or camp house was in. Does, bucks, yearlings, fawns...This was before "doe management", those days are long gone now.


Old school!! I know how you feel about the new school doe killing theology!! I think your wrong, but I know how you feel

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Here is some different perspectives from people who Live there and hunted there.Pretty good read
http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=821756&page=1


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

sbarrow said:


> I'm not relying on here say. I've been in this area my whole life. This will be my last comment on this subject. There has always been 120-130 lb does in that area.


I said average weights are up.I didnt say they never shot a 120 lb doe.I said the average weight of the deer harvested has gone up the past 10 years.Im not gonna argue with these guys that have lived and hunted up there.I remember i was cleaning a deer last week and doug was talking about it at the skinning shack saying how does have gotten bigger the past few years.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Tat, last club I was in was 3000 acres. Does killed were in the single digits, mostly by children.

Current club is 1000 acres. 4 does we're killed this year, 3 by children.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

TatSoul said:


> Here is some different perspectives from people who Live there and hunted there.Pretty good read http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=821756&page=1


OUCH!! The way they talk about Florida hunters outbidding them on all their leases kinda hurt my feelings!! Poor guys!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Tat, last club I was in was 3000 acres. Does killed were in the single digits, mostly by children.
> 
> Current club is 1000 acres. 4 does we're killed this year, 3 by children.


Seems to be what alot of clubs are doing.I dont have enough scientific data to say that the 2 does a day is what is decreasing the numbers.I would blame more on loss of row crops,helicopter fly overs poisoning the clear cuts and everything going up in pines.Hell for all we know car insurance companys and paper mills could have lobbied the doe kill season.
I grew up in virginia and them guys never killed does.No one believed in it and i never saw deer numbers very high.I think the deer population will reflect on the habitat and carrying capacity.
No one hunts raccoons at all but you dont see 1000s of them every night either.


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## _Backwoods (Dec 4, 2013)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> We need to kill way more does than we do. Not near enough have been taken this year.


I'm guessing when you say "we" you mean Alabama. How in your head does that make sense? What info are you basing your decision on? If it's the state recorded numbers you are sadly mistaking. That's just a small fraction of what is actually killed. Your biology degree means nothing to me as far as how you apply it to the herd. A lot more knowledgable people than you have screwed the pooch many times on private tracts of land. Some of the more respected biologist in the SE are pushing for a limited doe harvest in the future. 

Tat, I'm guessing you have only hunted in Bama a year or 2? If so you don't have a leg to stand on. What "hear say" you hear is like any other fishing and hunting story, likely exaggerated. Unless you have hunted in Bama all your life you don't have a clue. By no means am I saying you killing 15 deer is wrong, hell you could 25 if your land allows but it doesn't take away from the fact that the deer population is no where near what it was 15, 20, 30 years ago. 

By no means am I saying the deer population in Bama is hurting but there needs to be a limited doe harvest in the up coming years.


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

I think we are debating "shoot every doe you see" and protecting you does. It's like real estate...location, location, location. If your soil is poor, the deer are not getting the nutrients they need and the does will have singletons, occasionally twinning and never triplets. Go to an area with better soil, and twinning is regular and triplets are common. It's easy to replenish a herd when you are recruiting 2 new deer for every one that gets shot.

On my land, soil is poor, there are very few oak trees, and every square foot not under water has rows of pines on it. When we got it 6 years ago, it might have had 4 deer on it total.....yes, 4 deer on 1200 acres. Pathetic. We started our plotting with rototillers and then progressed to tractors and now put in 9 acres of good forage (both summer and fall)...far below the 10% needed (120 acres), but we work for a living and don't have time/money to do much more. 

Because of our low deer density, it is much easier to identify our does....we just don't have that many to have to keep up with. One old girl has a gray face...2 years ago she dropped a buck fawn. This year he is a nice spike with brows. She got bred last season...carried to term...but then something happened because she was never seen nurturing a fawn this year. So she didn't add to the herd.

Another pack of two does is living under my feeder. I see them everytime I go there and are on the cam everyday. 3 years ago the older doe fawned a doe. That doe is now 5.5 years old, and the fawn is 2.5. Neither have got bred in the past two seasons...and we have plenty of willing immature bucks in the area. So if I had shot the adult doe or the younger one, it would take 3 years or more to recover from that.

That's just an example of what I see with many cams and many feeders/plots that concentrate our deer. We have brought our doe population up to about 20 does and about the same for bucks. We see about 3 to 4 fawns per year so we are still very conservative with our doe harvest and I only give out one doe tag per 4 members. In 6 years, I have never taken a doe.

Again, location, location, location.


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## CatCrusher (Jan 18, 2009)

_Backwoods said:


> I'm guessing when you say "we" you mean Alabama. How in your head does that make sense? What info are you basing your decision on? If it's the state recorded numbers you are sadly mistaking. That's just a small fraction of what is actually killed. Your biology degree means nothing to me as far as how you apply it to the herd. A lot more knowledgable people than you have screwed the pooch many times on private tracts of land. Some of the more respected biologist in the SE are pushing for a limited doe harvest in the future.
> 
> Tat, I'm guessing you have only hunted in Bama a year or 2? If so you don't have a leg to stand on. What "hear say" you hear is like any other fishing and hunting story, likely exaggerated. Unless you have hunted in Bama all your life you don't have a clue. By no means am I saying you killing 15 deer is wrong, hell you could 25 if your land allows but it doesn't take away from the fact that the deer population is no where near what it was 15, 20, 30 years ago.
> 
> By no means am I saying the deer population in Bama is hurting but there needs to be a limited doe harvest in the up coming years.



Dead on!!!


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Sorry guys, guess I should be more specific. The land I HUNT needs to kill more does. My buddy saw 40 deer in one afternoon in a 2 acre area on that 2000 acre tract. 2 juvy bucks and 38 does. 38 different freakin does, that's insanity lol. That land has more does than I've ever seen in my life. However I do have a friend that I'm helping out that has land in South Alabama that is trying to rebuild his deer population, we won't kill a single deer this year. I do believe it is all specific, and that some places should have a limited doe harvest. Others however, need to be wide open.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

TatSoul said:


> You could compare it to blackwater or other florida management areas.They have 1 doe week and numbers do not seem to be increasing,In theory you would think with no does being killed there would be Deer being killed out there by the truck load.Some guys sit out there for months and never see squat.
> I can guarantee the number of deer you can count on the side of the road at 10 pm is the same number it was 10 years ago.The club my buddy Nick was in was loaded with deer.They also had 10 members and 3000 acres.That gives you alot less pressure and way more daytime deer sightings.I dont think each hunter can kill enough does honestly.Most of the guys in the club i was in didnt kill any does and the ones that did only killed a handful.Your not going to see deer everytime you sit on a property with 30+ members riding around every weekend.
> I got some pictures of some serious bucks on there property and they were all Night Only.Those bucks know what is up.
> Just because alabama has the 2 does a day limit it doesnt mean every hunter in the club is killing 1 doe a week.Trust me most of are lucky to kill 2 does and half of em ride to the stand at 8 am and drive right to the box house.They never check the wind they just pick a spot.
> Now the 3 buck limit i think is way to much.I would rather see it at 2.Most guys kill average bucks and just throw the racks in a pile.if a club had 1200 acres and 3 buck limit with 10 members plus family do you really think there is 40+ shooter bucks running around on 1200 acres.Probably not.take it back to 2 or 1 and i can see better class deer being taken.


 BW and other MA's don't have doe days at all that is state private property and if they are not seeing many deer there in the wrong place. My property is in the middle of Black water and there are more deer this year than I have ever seen.


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

DISCLAIMER: this is my opinion & not factual data...... I am not a deerologist, so please don't burn down my house if you disagree....

Our deer population may be less than it was years ago in NW FL but not too much....Everything around here has changed through time. Killing does may be a factor but there are too many other reasons to look at as well.... 20 years ago we didn't have coyote's or feral pigs here, soybeans and other great deer foods were everywhere, more hardwoods & less pines, like everything else this should be cyclical.. We are seeing doe's this year with more twins than we remember before..... hell, its January and we saw a spotted fawn last week.... some years we see 10x's the bucks, next year less bucks... We don't get worked up too much here in NW Fl about it, feed your family and be safe cause were blessed that our forefathers taught us proper to live off the land..


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

_Backwoods said:


> I'm guessing when you say "we" you mean Alabama. How in your head does that make sense? What info are you basing your decision on? If it's the state recorded numbers you are sadly mistaking. That's just a small fraction of what is actually killed. Your biology degree means nothing to me as far as how you apply it to the herd. A lot more knowledgable people than you have screwed the pooch many times on private tracts of land. Some of the more respected biologist in the SE are pushing for a limited doe harvest in the future.
> 
> Tat, I'm guessing you have only hunted in Bama a year or 2? If so you don't have a leg to stand on. What "hear say" you hear is like any other fishing and hunting story, likely exaggerated. Unless you have hunted in Bama all your life you don't have a clue. By no means am I saying you killing 15 deer is wrong, hell you could 25 if your land allows but it doesn't take away from the fact that the deer population is no where near what it was 15, 20, 30 years ago.
> 
> By no means am I saying the deer population in Bama is hurting but there needs to be a limited doe harvest in the up coming years.


You know what your right.I gotta toss out what all the guys i hunt around and has hunted camp creek before i was born and just take your word for it.Man i should have been listening to all the experts here to begin with.What the heck was i thinking.Glad we could come come to a conclusion.


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## nathar (Jun 25, 2009)

Dang. My club has only taken 14 does and two bucks, in total, for the entire season so far.

I've only got a package of backstrap left from last year. Haven't taken a deer this year, despite myriad trips to my club.

I'm not proud. If anyone wants to give me some deer meat, I'll make half of it into Conecuh sausage and give it back to you.

Actually, now that I think about the Florida game laws, I know it is illegal to barter wild game. I remember a guy on "Tradio" who wanted to trade some deer meat for some firewood. A FWC officer responded to the ad, met the old man, and slapped handcuffs on him. Therefore, I guess I'm trading my labor for grinding and stuffing in exchange for deer meat and would be committing a crime. Are the laws that ridiculous?


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## TatSoul (Mar 12, 2012)

60/40 my cut and you got a deal.


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