# Snapper And grouper



## minkmaster (Apr 5, 2008)

Are they really going to make it illegal to keep Red snapper and Gag and red grouper in the gulf next year? I fish out of Venice and Pensacola one a fall trip and one a spring and that would just plain suck. Any idea if there will even be a snapper season next summer???


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

I wouldn't count on one.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Well lets see.... Take an arrow and mount it on on a board where you can spin it. Mark off areas that are labelled:

1) No snapper season

2) purchase snapper tags

3)buy snapper at Jo Pattis

Then spin away and see which option is most likely..... You get the picture.

The other option is secession from the dumbasses in charge of this crap, but I figure the chance of that is so low that it is not worth putting it on the board.

By the way, Obama is DIRECTLY in charge of this debacle through a new organization he has created to oversee NOAA and NMFS, so if there is no snapper season, you can blame Obama for it. Really. I am not kidding.

Let the drama begin. It is predictable at this point. WW2 will chime in with something defending Obama. Someone will call me a racist. Here we go......


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## amarcafina (Aug 24, 2008)

NO !!!


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## minkmaster (Apr 5, 2008)

I really don't understand why they would do this when all it will do is hurt tourism and the area as a whole. I know they are trying to destroy an area out in California because of this enviromental stuff too. The thing that bites me in the ass is I kill just as many red snapper when I fish in these areas if I get to bring them home for the table or not because that venting is a joke when you pull them up from over 100 feet and their eyes are all bugged out and all.


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## WW2 (Sep 28, 2007)

> *angus_cow_doctor (10/16/2009)*Well lets see.... Take an arrow and mount it on on a board where you can spin it. Mark off areas that are labelled:
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Obama is to blame. I mean we never even had federal limits or anyone talking about closed seasons until just this year...


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## minkmaster (Apr 5, 2008)

I really fail to see how you can manage an area as big as the gulf of Mexico as one area. I mean If you stretch it out over land that would be like trying to use management practices you all use in Florida and Alabama in Iowa and Missouri. In the northern Gulf there are tons of Red Snapper and in the southern reaches almost non-existent. I fail to understand how these areas can be governed by the same regulations. What's next a snook quota for Pensacola??? It just doesn't make sense.


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

> *minkmaster (10/17/2009)*I really fail to see how you can manage an area as big as the gulf of Mexico as one area. I mean If you stretch it out over land that would be like trying to use management practices you all use in Florida and Alabama in Iowa and Missouri. In the northern Gulf there are tons of Red Snapper and in the southern reaches almost non-existent. I fail to understand how these areas can be governed by the same regulations. What's next a snook quota for Pensacola??? It just doesn't make sense.


It isn't some conspiracy to populate south florida with red snapper. They just went after the fish with the highest catch numbers first. It won't be long and we won't be able to keep anything anymore. All our seafood will be imported chinese catfish and shit pond tilapia. The environmentalists want to end all fishing because they think we have killed off all the fish, even though they have no first hand experience on the water.

I'm getting my 100 ton right now so I can run private yacht's or maybe go to work in the oil industry. Time to focus on pleasure sailing, shipping, and drilling because fishing as an industry is dead.

Since Bush started all this by signing the Magnuson-Stevens act I blame him.


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## Water Spout II (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm not a scientist but it seems that people thinking that environmentalists want to end all fishing and shut things down is plain wrong. The redfish population in the gulf coast was saved by environmentalists and conservationists alike who joined forces to save the species by standing up demanding that the fish be considered a game fish and demanding bag reductions. Now the redfish fishing along the gulf coast is as good as it has ever been. You ever stop and think that maybe they are limiting it right now in order to help the species for the future? Me being a fisherman and a conservationist, I love red snapper fishing but I am more than fine with them shutting things down now for a summer or two if it means that I can fish for them for the rest of my life. 



Also, a lot of the issues regarding bag limits right now are based off of outdated models. So, that either means that they are reducing the fishing because the species really is in danger or they are reducing the limits and season based off of outdated models. If the later is true, the models and data will catch up in the next few years and the bag limits will be expanded and the season lengthened. I just find it hard to believe there is an evil conspiracy against saltwater snapper anglers. If these people were really trying to be environmentalists,they would be going after the finning of sharks and not the catching of snapper. Because of that, I think there is some legitimacy to the concern of the stocks. Just my two cents are listening to people like Dr. Bob Shipp speak who conducts research on the red snapper population and is a proponent of increasing the bag limit back to 4.


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## minkmaster (Apr 5, 2008)

I am not saying they are conspiring I am asking on any species how can you have the same regulation in areas that have very low populations as other area vast distances away that have very high densities?? It makes absolutely no sense you cannot manage anything else with such vast diferences in area so how can you on a fish. 



I just hope they don't shut down Cubera fishing in Southern Florida and Texas because the numbers are lower in Pensacola, Orange Beach, Venice, and Grand Isle. 



Wouldn't it be better if state's had the rights to manage their species to say 50 miles out and keep the feds out of it???


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

NOTHING that the federal government gets involved in EVER gets better. The list is long and distinguished, including:

1)medicare

2)social security

3)welfare

4)corporate bail outs

5)the economy

and it goes on and on and on.......

The feds need to keep their nose out of stuff that should be state regulated. I mean REALLY! Don't they have enough to keep them busy???? The economy is in the crapper, the Iranian Mahmoud I'm-a-nut-job is making nuclear bombs, *we owe more money in deficit spending than there is in circulation in US dollars.* Social Security is set to be broke in the near future. As if all that was not enough, now they want to assume control over all health care, and to top it all off, get involved in telling us that we are overfishing the gulf when you can't go out there and drop a line in the water and not catch a red snapper, AJ, etc!?!?!? Where do we draw the line?

I think the WHOLE ENCHILADA needs to be voted out, and put some new people in there. Change that you can REALLY believe in.Something smells, and it ain't the local sewage treatment plant this time!


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## Eastern Tackle (Jul 6, 2009)

> *P-cola_Native (10/17/2009)*
> 
> Since Bush started all this by signing the Magnuson-Stevens act I blame him.




Me too. I see I'm not the only one. 



The MPA's really happened under a Bush also.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Magnuson-stevens act was created with good intentions, but the road to hell itself is paved with good intentions.

The current administration has the option of continuing down this road, and looks to be hell bent on going down it instead of choosing another path.

That is all I am saying....


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## CATCH-ALL (Oct 6, 2009)

> *BullBoxer (10/17/2009)*I'm not a scientist but it seems that people thinking that environmentalists want to end all fishing and shut things down is plain wrong. The redfish population in the gulf coast was saved by environmentalists and conservationists alike who joined forces to save the species by standing up demanding that the fish be considered a game fish and demanding bag reductions. Now the redfish fishing along the gulf coast is as good as it has ever been. You ever stop and think that maybe they are limiting it right now in order to help the species for the future? Me being a fisherman and a conservationist, I love red snapper fishing but I am more than fine with them shutting things down now for a summer or two if it means that I can fish for them for the rest of my life.
> 
> Also, a lot of the issues regarding bag limits right now are based off of outdated models. So, that either means that they are reducing the fishing because the species really is in danger or they are reducing the limits and season based off of outdated models. If the later is true, the models and data will catch up in the next few years and the bag limits will be expanded and the season lengthened. I just find it hard to believe there is an evil conspiracy against saltwater snapper anglers. If these people were really trying to be environmentalists,they would be going after the finning of sharks and not the catching of snapper. Because of that, I think there is some legitimacy to the concern of the stocks. Just my two cents are listening to people like Dr. Bob Shipp speak who conducts research on the red snapper population and is a proponent of increasing the bag limit back to 4.


Those of you who know me know that I seldom candycoat anything. I'll tell you what you <U>need</U> to hear, not what you <U>want</U> to hear.

For those of you who think that things will change and eventually fisheries scientists will change their anti-fishing ways, here's an old saying that goes:

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." Having said that, I'll say this about Roy Crabtree, the real villain in this sad affair. "Those who can, fish. Those who can't, regulate fisheries." Roy Crabtree was a failure as a Keys guide so he got into fisheries regulation and now is the NMFS federal gummint honcho overseeing both the SAFMC and the GMFMC that are shoving these asinine anti-recreational fishing regulations down our throats.

But Crabtree is merely the symptom of the disease. The cause of this pustulent carbuncle called federal gummint fisheries is the Obama (mis)Administration. Do you really think that a Chicago Way politician like B Hussein Obama is going to ignore his base? NFW. Enviro-fascists donated tens of millions to his half-billion dollar campaign. Mr Obama knows damn well he'd better come across with the payback for their support or he can kiss their support goodbye (when he loses his bid) for re-election in 2012. Proof of the payback was his nomination of Comrade Lubchenko as director of NMFS. Also, he appointed that halfassed buffoon "czar"that is actually pushing for animals to sue people or companies. (I'm not making this shit up - RESEARCH IT). Pew Charitable Trusts is the 800 Pound Gorilla behind all this enviro-fascistcrap. 

Pew Charitable Trusts is funded by billions of dollars in Sun Oil Co stock (SUNOCO) that was donated to it by members of the Pew Family of Radnor, PA. The original Pews that started the Trusts were conservative Republicans and began it with good intentions. But the next generation that are running things now are all 60's Generation filthy hippy socialist assholes. They loaded the Board with like-minded individuals (fellow self-righteous sanctimonious leftist elitists) and they've forced the Pew Trusts to take a hard-aport turn to the far left. Joshua Reichert, head of their Marine environmental department, is proof of that. 

So every time you buy a tank of gas at a SUNOCO station you are helping the downfall of recreational fishing and the death-by-a-thousand-paper-cuts of your fishing <U>rights. </U>

Catch :nonono


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## CATCH-ALL (Oct 6, 2009)

[ONRANT]



WHAT CAN WE DO TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS?

1) write or fax your US Congressman and two US Senators - All politicians are whores. They whore themselves for your vote. They all want to get in power and once in power, they want tokeep that power. They cravepower like a drug. Make it plain to them that you fish and you vote and the details of WHY you are pissed. Next thing you know they or their staffers will be calling Lubchenko and Crabtree saying "WTF are you doing? My constituents are screaming bloody murder at me and you're the cause of it! Want to see your damn funding to masturbate Manatees cut off next year?" 



2) support the Fishing Rights Alliance (FRA) - Dennis OHern has long been a formidable proponent for recreational fishermens' rights here in the Gulf. Now his FRA organization is also defending our rights on the east coast. FRA has filed several lawsuits against GMFMC/ NMFS for one assklownery reg or another and FRA has won each time, getting the regs overturned or blunted.

-support the Recreational Fishing Association (RFA) - I know Jim Donofrio personally. I've known him for over ten years. The RFA lobbies for our recreational fishing rights in Washington and in state capitols. Jim is a good guy with a very thick skin - its what has allowed him to endure the backbiting & sniping from the CCA as CCA members hemorrhage away from RFA and join organizations like RFA andFRA. Yes, the CCA was founded with good intentions and hasdone many good things for inshore fishing over the years. But every timeCCA sticks their snout into offshore bottomfishing issues they eff things upand recreational fishermen lose more rights. The CCA-FLA chapter is by far the worst offender and 2 CCA-FLA board members (one a founding member) have told me to my face that the CCA-FLA Board is packed with a bunch of catch & release inshore elitists. How elitist are they? I've personally witnessed two of these elitist, holier-than-thouCCA-FLA Board members filleting short, out-of-season snook in Ft Pierce. I didnt know who they were at the time or I would have been punching in the numbers for FWC like a labrat hitting the food pellet bar.

[/OFFFRANT]



Catch


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## lyle-t (Oct 1, 2009)

> *Eastern Tackle (10/21/2009)*
> 
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> > *P-cola_Native (10/17/2009)*
> ...


*AT LEAST BUSH WAS A RECREATIONAL FISHERMAN AND SUPPORTED THE NRA*


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## reeltime (Aug 4, 2008)

> *CATCH-ALL (11/10/2009)*
> 
> WHAT CAN WE DO TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS?


You might also watch out for the Interagency Ocean Policy Task Force, 

and make comment at the bottom of this link; 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ceq/initiatives/oceans


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

> *CATCH-ALL (11/10/2009)*[ONRANT]
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> 
> 
> ...




+1 on that one. I joined FRA recently in a bid to add one more voice and donation to those willing to sue NMFS.

BTW, I am still LAO on the part about all politicians being whores..... Never thought about it that way, but it is so true!:takephoto


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## CATCH-ALL (Oct 6, 2009)

the worst part about politicians being whores is that <U>THEY</U> ARE SCREWING <U>US</U> !!

Catch :usaflag


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## Pelagic Tigress (Oct 15, 2007)

Sounds like Gov't is encouraging filet and release...and a lack of accurate reporting...which should be expected with their lack of accurate surveys. :letsdrink


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## superman (Feb 28, 2008)

can anybody tell me who is making up these ruls and where are they getting there info .. thanks TOMMY A:


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Tommy:

It has already been covered ad nauseum on this forum who is to blame and how we got here. I will try to sum it up:

1) The Department of commerce, subheading NOAA, subheading NMFS (National Marine Fisheries Service). That is who is in charge of fishing regulations, and all the other organizations that are their superiors.

2)Magnuson Stevens was an act passed to end all overfishing in federal waters by 2010. Sounds good, but the problem is defining "normal population density" as well as number of fish caught each year. They are using data from commercial fishermen and they are ESTIMATING data based on phone surveys of license holders. These estimations are extremely succeptible to being skewed. That is why we see SO MANY red snapper, but the NMFS says they are critically overfished.

3)The NMFS is stacked with Pew Foundation supporters who are of the opinion that recreational fishermen should only catch and release fish, and all of society should BUY their fish from commercial fishermen, which NMFS can more easily regulate and get "campaign contributions" from. Not many rec fishermen send contributions to politicians.

That in a nutshell is the problem.....


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## Eastern Tackle (Jul 6, 2009)

> *angus_cow_doctor (11/11/2009)*
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Eastern Tackle sent them a check also, based on the fact that they went to court, which is the only thing that works. You will see reference after reference of rules being based on court mandated legislation. Its the only thing that works.


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## GROUPER321 (Jul 30, 2008)

Well guys PETTA just paid another 15 million to lobbiest to make the gulf a catch and release state by 2012. The truth IS when federal government and state gov (Charlie Christ) yes who has ditched us as usually, we will not be able to stand up against them no matter what we cant win period. It's a great effort by the local anglers like RFRA cudos to them, but its what the state and federal gov. want, so we can waste our time. No congressman, senator cares cause none are doing nothing about it. Tell me when the last time you saw a senator speaking to the commitie about red snapper, grouper,trigger "i'll wait",next they will be telling us how many boats will be able to go out. This is how the state,and federal gov are taking over our last fredom, I would love to adress this with our Charlie Christ since he has no care about his citizens who fish and dive.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

<H3><SPAN style="COLOR: #800000">Calling for Review of Restrictions on Florida Recreational Fishermen</H3>

<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">Recreational fishing is a huge part of Florida's economy and way of life. Floridians have adhered to fishing limits, but now, federal officials are trying to change the regulations without listening to the communities most impacted. NOAA has placed new restrictions and early season closures on the Grouper, Snapper, and Amberjack fisheries, significantly impacting recreational fishermen.

<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">Before we create a new policy, there needs to be more discussion, review, and public input. Last week, I received a commitment from the Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Dr. Jane Lubchenco, that she will appoint a senior policy advisor to improve relations between NOAA and the recreational fishing community.

<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">The federal government also needs to review how it determines the appropriate restrictions. I have serious concerns about the information the National Marine Fisheries Service is using to set new fishing restrictions and closures. I have heard from fishermen in Florida who believe the information is not accurate and in fact they are seeing an abundance of fish compared to other years. Click the video below to see excerpts from the Commerce Committee hearing on this matter.<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">




<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">

<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">

<SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">_*In the interest of fairness...........................*_


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## OBsession (Feb 13, 2008)

Hell with iT !!! No closed season for me ...They can't catch us all


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## GROUPER321 (Jul 30, 2008)

Well George is not saying nothing new, they said the same shit 4 years ago about red grouper no one done nothing about it on the political sector, i totally agree with OBESSION they cant catch us all too shoratge of fwc officers lol. But dont get your hopes up on the political side of things.


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## DKFREE (Sep 1, 2008)

good luck on not getting caught. is it really worth it?


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