# What is your solution?



## BenSelman (Aug 22, 2010)

Okay I would first ask to everyone who chooses to respond, please do so in a respectful, non antagonizing, civilized way. So that we can have a real conversation without this thread being locked by moderators.


That being said, with today's tragic events in Connecticut, which involved misuse of a firearm, what can be done to prevent this?

Personally, I am against gun control for multiple reasons. main reason, criminals don't obey laws therefor I carry and own to protect those around me, if ever faced with an unfortunate situation.

Do any of you have another view or opinion on this? How in the world do we prevent such events?!?!?


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## tips n tails (Mar 2, 2011)

Simply put I dont think you can prevent it. I personally think eventually schools will start going the route courts and other federal/state offices/buildings have gone with a check-in entry point/screening system to help minimize these incidents. However if someone wants to do some harm, they are going to find away to do some. There will always be away to get around what preventive measures are put into place. 

I also am against gun control.


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## PensacolaEd (Oct 3, 2007)

The shooter was diagnosed with acute psychosis and was only 20 years old. Both things SHOULD have disqualified him from possessing a handgun, but these Pieces of Shizzle that commit this type of crime don't care about any law. 
The solution is to enforce mandatory stiff prison sentences for anyone using a gu to commit a crime, and stop sensationalizing these attacks with 24-hour news coverage.


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## Kevin B (Dec 3, 2012)

This is a very sad day for sure, Prayers sent to all the families involved.
Taking away guns wont stop it.
These sickos will just find another way to do it.
like a home made bomb or something.

Kevin


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## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

Allowing teachers to carry.
The POTUS wants to create jobs....school security forces throughout the country. 2-3 man security teams based at every school.. not just security guards with guns but truly trained security minded individuals. Imagine the jobs that would create, the deterrent it would be and how much safer everyone would be


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## chaps (Aug 31, 2009)

When I was in Israel, all guided school tours were accompanied by an armed guard. We need to have armed security at schools to deter these people.


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## tigerbait (Oct 1, 2007)

Collard said:


> Wirelessly posted
> 
> Allowing teachers to carry.
> The POTUS wants to create jobs....school security forces throughout the country. 2-3 man security teams based at every school.. not just security guards with guns but truly trained security minded individuals. Imagine the jobs that would create, the deterrent it would be and how much safer everyone would be


The Malls next? Then what? Disney? I'm sure Obama would LOVE to expand the Government that we pay for, with Federal Security. This was a tragedy. No doubt, but this is he world we live in now.

No more gun control other than what's in place.

Prayers to the families of those affected today.


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## bigbulls (Mar 12, 2008)

The only thing we can do is teach our children right from wrong and that there are consequences for their actions. But the cold hard truth is that there is evil in this world. Evil people will do evil things. That will never change. The only thing good people can do is educate and be prepared for evil when it appears.

Nothing is going to prevent a psychotic from doing things like this but you can be prepared when it does happen. Perhaps, in each school, their could be a select few people that are allowed access to a few (maybe a dozen or so) firearms strategically locked up, and out of view of the students, though out the school (maybe next to every fire extinguisher) that could be accessed very quickly when something like this happens. It might not save every one but it could save some. Some people saved is better than none saved. 

You can pass all the laws you want and it won't change a thing. We could ban guns tomorrow and it will only serve to create a black market for firearms in this country. Probably from Mexico.


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## FISHBOXFULL (May 9, 2008)

sorry for all involved, but the govt and media are twisting this just the way they want. 
If there were no guns involved, these people can get anything they need on the internet for bombs, poisons drug mixtures.....
Craziness can not be stopped only matched at strength, our govt does nothing to discourage this behavior, let career criminals walk out of prisons everyday, and thier answer is to take guns.....
The real answer is for the American public to stand up and be people instead of being flocked and brain washed like animals and match the power of crazy people by empowering themselvs with thier 2nd adm right and have the ability to protect themselves as well as protect a fellow American in trouble.
Simply stand up for good


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

I've thought about this a lot. I honestly think that every large institution, be it a school, corporation, etc. should have a couple of trained, trusted employees (on each floor) that carry at all times AND have access to locked up ARs or shotguns. It won't stop a crazy but it will limit the damage he can cause before he's taken down.
I'm not talking about armed guards, I'm talking about people that normally work there. I'm sure that most places have a few gun enthusiasts that will require minimal training to get very proficient and they should be allowed to practice bi-weekly at company expense.


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## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

Wirelessly posted



tigerbait said:


> Collard said:
> 
> 
> > Wirelessly posted
> ...


We're talking about protecting kids at school. Adults at the mall and Disney are on their own to carry or not, to protect themselves and others in public. Kids don't have that option and neither do their teachers at school.
Give that option to them and a security force trained to protect them also. 
There are many vets that would answer the call I'm sure that could use the work and are for the most part trained


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I believe the only feasible way to protect schools is to have them lockdown style like courthouses. Everyone who enters is screened and all entries locked otherwise. 

Where would the funding come from to train 5 people for every school. While I think that would work in terms of protection, financially it could never happen. A metal detector, one cop (school recourse officer) and one person in charge of all late admittance to the school would be a hell of a lot cheaper than training and weapons for 5 people that could transfer. Just my .03

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

John B. said:


> I believe the only feasible way to protect schools is to have them lockdown style like courthouses. Everyone who enters is screened and all entries locked otherwise.
> 
> Where would the funding come from to train 5 people for every school. While I think that would work in terms of protection, financially it could never happen. A metal detector, one cop (school recourse officer) and one person in charge of all late admittance to the school would be a hell of a lot cheaper than training and weapons for 5 people that could transfer. Just my .03
> 
> Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


That's why I suggested training regular employees. There are enthusiasts that shoot regularly and are better shots than any security guard and they should be used. The extra expense would be minimal - some time off and money for ammo and range time.
Ideally, the best solution would be to have two cops and a metal detector at every entrance AND limited access but economically that's not going to happen.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

welldoya said:


> That's why I suggested training regular employees. There are enthusiasts that shoot regularly and are better shots than any security guard and they should be used. The extra expense would be minimal - some time off and money for ammo and range time.
> Ideally, the best solution would be to have two cops and a metal detector at every entrance AND limited access but economically that's not going to happen.


So when one of them snap, you will have a better trained maniac.

I don't have the answer, but as I sit here hunting and reading the latest news I feel like puking. 

Count your blessings, cherish every moment with your children, there are 18 sets of parents who are going through there own hell.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Raise your children to respect everyone and hold parents accountable for their children. This kind of thing is going to happen more and more as children are not raised to properly respect another person. Children do not respect the property of others and much more. This issue is bigger than gun control. We are having more and more wackos raised by society and not raised by a dang parents (plural on purpose) that care about/love them.

It's sad. From what I hear, this wacko got the guns from his mother. Why did he have access????? If my guns are not on me, they are locked up. Period!!!!!!! Only myself and my wife have access. Not my brother, not my mother, not my sister, not anyone. No one knows the code to my safes other than us. Guess what, I carry while in my house since I have children and can't lay them around the house in case I need one in an emergency. 

Hold people accountable to giving someone access to a gun that uses it in a crime. If it's stollen out of a safe, that's one thing. If it's stollen in a home burglary, that's ok too. But, do not allow people that come and go within your house, (friends or family) to have access to guns in your house. These crimes mostly start off because a family member or friend had their weapon stolen by the wacko doing the shooting. Common sense tells you to keep your firearms secure. If you are alone, have no kids and have no friends over ever, then leave them out everywhere for all I care. But the moment you have people over to your house, they need to be secure. You cannot trust anyone.

We are not going to stop these type things with any type of law. It starts in the family upbringing. And that's going down the drain. So expect more crappy things to go on in society. Sucks a big fat one. But all I can do is raise my children to respect others and other's property. To say yes sir, no sir etc.... To grow up in a loving family unit. Show my children what it's like to love another person unconditionally with how I treat and love my wife. And so much more. It starts at home.


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## EmeraldGhostJr (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't know how to prevent this, you can lock things down but usually it goes to bigger guns in those instances. "They're carrying pistols, ok I'm going in with auto's/grenade/small bombs." Just start going through iterations of that and you'll see where we'll be going. If you start getting police in the schools/malls/etc that are armed then you'll have the institutions starting to ask for subsidies for a government mandate. (Further debt)

I believe you could allow people to carry weapons that work in their respective areas but have them go through training, certification, and PSYCH EVALS regularly. The reason for the psych evals is self explainatory but, we had a middle school try to commit suicide (yes he failed to do so, had a wound through his cheek) with a pistol that was kept in his office desk with lock and key during one weekend and we were all a little confused over it on Monday when he was gone and we heard what was going on. 

It comes down to this, we can lock everything down but become a communist like country and live in fear and void of happiness because we are told what to do, how to do it, and when to do it 24/7/365. Or, we can start treating individuals like they are supposed to, everyone is their own 'island' (think pioneer days here folks). and try to keep things like our fore-fathers wanted us to and still have tragedies but not on such a large scale. We're in no man's land right now, we're not communists, but we're not Capitalists either. But that's a debate for another time...


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## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

Pioneer days are gone, because half of us know what that means and the other half wants their govt to tell them what that means. 
Our world has been changed since 9/11. Maybe before then but that was the wakeup. To a point we do need things locked down. 
Our schools used to be naively thought of as a safe place for our kids. That has obviously been proven to be the opposite. We as a society owe it to our children to make sure they are safe there. 
Allow teachers and bus drivers to carry for a start and see if that helps. If it doesn't (and I'm sure it would)then escalate security from there. 
On another note if the first family can spend millions on a vacation we can find money somewhere to train teachers to defend our children and the lives of others. 
Domestic terror is alive and well. We better face it head on and deal with it the best we can before another nutjob gets tired of sitting on the couch.


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## EmeraldGhostJr (Aug 21, 2012)

Let me clarify but what I meant for 'pioneer days'. I didn't mean go back to totally like how it was with no rules. The teachers/bus drivers/admin staff will have the right to carry arms on school but will have to keep up with compliance rules set forth by the governing body. That way the kids are better protected and that will deter further tragedies.

As for the money issue, I believe that the schools will have to come up with it. We're already so far it debt that if we keep this up and keep subsidizing people we're screwed royally and soon. We can't keep everyone afloat in this country, even the president shouldn't be able to give us the bill to go take a multi-million dollar vacation, he should be able to foot some of the bill. It's just wrong, would you take a vacation if you were in debt? Nope you would be working and staying home.


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## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

^^agreed


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Outside9 said:


> So when one of them snap, you will have a better trained maniac.


I think the chances of that are minimal but that's all I could come up with within reasonable economic boundaries. If you have something better, let's hear it.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

welldoya said:


> I think the chances of that are minimal but that's all I could come up with within reasonable economic boundaries. If you have something better, let's hear it.


Sorry, did not mean to be an @ss, this stuff just makes me sick.


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## duckhunter (Oct 8, 2007)

Well I guess I will wade in on this: first my heart goes out to the families in this tragadey . Allowing teachers to carry is probably the only way this could be prevented. Now I'm not saying totally but not near the number of deaths. I believe they would have go through some type of training and continue it to be allowed to carry in school. I know several teachers who would do it willing who have been instructing firearm safety for the state . I think that would have be concealed and no students should know who it was, so they would not be targeted. Hiring more police means more taxes. Just my 2 cents


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

BenSelman said:


> Okay I would first ask to everyone who chooses to respond, please do so in a respectful, non antagonizing, civilized way. So that we can have a real conversation without this thread being locked by moderators.
> 
> 
> That being said, with today's tragic events in Connecticut, which involved misuse of a firearm, what can be done to prevent this?
> ...


Train and arm school employees. You can't stop crazy people from doing crazy things. Police can only count the bodies when it's all over, morbid but true. A school employee with a gun could have stopped him. He still would have killed, but it wouldn't have been 28. I teach at a small school with 25 teachers in our building. At least 10 of us have our CCL, but can't carry at school. I'm not claiming to be trained or ready for something like that, but would be more than willing to give my time to learn.


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## johnf (Jan 20, 2012)

welldoya said:


> That's why I suggested training regular employees. There are enthusiasts that shoot regularly and are better shots than any security guard and they should be used. The extra expense would be minimal - some time off and money for ammo and range time.
> Ideally, the best solution would be to have two cops and a metal detector at every entrance AND limited access but economically that's not going to happen.


Funny you should say that. I've got a buddy who's a sheriff's deputy and I shoot circles around him.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

after thinking about this I don't even want to comment. Such a shame.


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## southern yakker (Jun 25, 2012)

There is nothing that you can do to lrevent this type of cruel act. Allowing teachers to carry might deter someone but if they want to kill people they are going to. If they made assault rifles and other guns illegal it will just make people get them illegally. No amount of gun control will stop someone from getting a weapon.

Someone of yall mentioned screenings at the entrances but there is no way to block every entrance in a school amd even than they could just go on there killing spree while the kids are walking to class. 

Prayers sent to the victims and families.


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## RickD (Jul 28, 2009)




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## southern yakker (Jun 25, 2012)

RickD said:


> View attachment 68255


I was trying to post this but couldnt figure it out but its dead on.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

RickD said:


> View attachment 68255


 
Those signs are PERFECT ! That says it all.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Set up schools like bases. You have checkpoints and must have proper credentials to get in. If you run a gate, then the guards have permission to use deadly force. This won't stop the student that can get in and wants to do this, but there is no fool proof way. Even the armed teacher/employee idea doesn't completely eliminate risk.


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## Contender (Apr 4, 2012)

This is an extraordinarily complex problem. Complex problems usually require complex solutions. The debate over more gun control vs. more guns is ideological and as such a rational, well thought out, fact based conversation is difficult.

Some facts:

There are about 300 million guns in America and about 4 million more are sold here every year.

About 30,000 people are killed with guns every year in America about half are suicides, about 600 are killed by accident.

About 50,000 people are killed in automobile accidents and about 100,000 die in hospitals because of mistakes and errors each year. 

Logically, it seems, the debate would focus on making cars, highways and hospitals safer, but there is not ideological split associated with these events.

I don't think hiring, training and staffing security at schools, street corners and theaters is the answer. Just not in favor of more government, sorry.

My solution would be to close some loopholes in gun purchasing -- over a million people have been denied gun purchase because of instant back ground checks -- yet gun shows and individual sales are frequently outside the boundaries of instant checks. 

Secondly I think there needs to be more rigor in CCL, a standard to ensure those that are carrying are safe, and are versed in the pertinent laws, and a permit issued in one state would be honored in another. A driver's license in universal so should a CCL.

Third, if you do a crime with gun you are gone for a long time and if you are a convicted felon and you are found with a gun, you are gone for a long time. 

With 300 million guns in America, a gun ban is not happening.

My thoughts


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## FISHBOXFULL (May 9, 2008)

there are still more good people than bad, problems are that the good people are restricted and lawed to death to make them vonurable at times.
Restrictions should be lifted on locations of ccws allowed to carry.

We wouldnt even need to train or arm teachers, I PROMISE YOU, Teachers would arm and train themselves......


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## BenSelman (Aug 22, 2010)

I think you guys have got it. Give teachers the option to carry! We have heard of several heroic actions by the teachers in that school, what if just one of them were carrying? The teacher who hid her students in the cabinets and closets. The gunman walked in, she said her students were in the gym, the gunman proceeded to gun her down. What if she was carrying? She still would've hid her students and then positioned herself with her gun pointed at (I would assume the one and only entry door) Gunman walks in and she empties the clip in that direction. The lord favors the prepared, surely he would assist in allowing just one bullet to hit in the right place.

Didn't mean to go into so much detail but it seems like thats all that would be required.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Contender said:


> I don't think hiring, training and staffing security at schools, street corners and theaters is the answer. Just not in favor of more government, sorry.
> 
> My solution would be to close some loopholes in gun purchasing -- over a million people have been denied gun purchase because of instant back ground checks -- yet gun shows and individual sales are frequently outside the boundaries of instant checks.
> 
> ...


Contender, I'm not talking about getting the government involved. I'm talking about arming and training the people that already work there.
And closing loopholes wouldn't have stopped this guy. He stole the guns from his mother.
We already have stringent punishment in place to deal with people who use guns in the commission of a felony. It doesn't stop them. Most of these mass shooters commit suicide anyway.
There needs to be a way to deal with those that are determined to carry out these atrocities. No, armed teachers won't be able to stop the shooting BUT I'll bet they could limit the number of victims.
Wanna bet that some teachers/employees will start carrying anyway regardless of the rules ?


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## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

Make all schools only accessed at one or 2 points from visitors. I disagree with extra security or arming the teachers, but I could see giving the teachers the ability to have a less than lethal say tazer. Not perfect, but nothing is. But there is no way schools would allow 15-20 teachers to have a gun just too high a risk. Only issue with arming teachers of any kind is they will all be targeted immediately if that is known. Again, no perfect answer and it is almost impossible to stop someone willing to die for a cause.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

I know that "armed teachers" is doable but expensive. Some pilots on commercial airlines are armed. It is a voluntary program that involves extensive background checks, psychological profiling, and about a week of training at the pilots expense. 

The training is extensive and I assume expensive for the government. They fire thousands of rounds. They "requal" occasionally at a few authorized sites throughout the US. Current budget is $25M yearly to train and requal pilots. I cannot know how many pilots are "armed".

I can only assume that "armed teachers" would require the same checks and training to be "deputized". That will cost a LOT of $$$. 

Simply allowing teachers to conceal carry probably wont pass the legal sniff test with regard to reacting to a threat. I'll bet, like pilots, extensive training will be required. 

Just a guess though,

Jim


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Forgot to add. One of the questions that is asked...

Do you have a CCW?

If you do, imagine this scenario... You are in a mall. Suddenly you hear multiple shots fired. What do you do?

Politically correct answer... Duck and cover, call 911.

Acceptable answer... Duck and cover, call 911... take a shot if it comes along.

Wrong answer. Hunt the sucker down, shoot him.

Why? TRAINING!!! Do what you are TRAINED to do, nothing more. You are TRAINED for a specific scenario, so will teachers, but that scenario is NOT taking the initiative to counter threats

If that is what is called for, TRAINING will be provided.

Pilots are indemnified from prosecution, but only to the scope of their training.

Jim

PS The airlines provide NO support to the "armed pilot" program. They are afraid of the legal consequences if a stray bullet fired by an "armed pilot" or "other" real mistakes occur. (So far there has been ONE "accidental" discharge. The pilot violated protocol to be "more ready". When he stowed his weapon, it went off. Nobody was hurt.)

Jim


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