# Fort Pickens Problems



## Wugitus (Oct 16, 2008)

There were a number of posts about trouble to guests of Fort Pickens. If you had trouble recently this may help. The Gulf Breeze News , on Sept 10, 2009 had a front page story about a family that was harassed at Fort Pickens. The U S Park Service is investigateing. The article was written by Joe Culpepper at the newspaper. E/M at [email protected] . Pick up a copy and read it, the park is claiming the rangers may have been under stress. If you had a problem at the park, you need to get and read this article, front page. You may be able to tell your story, and help get the problem fixed.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

What kind of stress can a park ranger really be under?


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

> *JoeZ (9/11/2009)*What kind of stress can a park ranger really be under?




I'm sure its stressful wondering if your 4 wheeler is going to start...its a long walk down the beach when it doesn't. Being nice to folks usually takes a lot of stress out of stuff for me, maybe they should try it


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

I hate it when my state/federally issued vehicle craps out on me and the rest of have to pay to fix it. I blame Roosevelt, effin socialist.


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## Lil' Scout (Oct 1, 2007)

> *JoeZ (9/11/2009)*What kind of stress can a park ranger really be under?


You've obviously never heard of Yogi.


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## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

> *Lil' Scout (9/12/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *JoeZ (9/11/2009)*What kind of stress can a park ranger really be under?
> ...


Yogi was one nerve rackin' bastage. The only one worse was the trouble makin' mean azz Woody Woodpecker. 

Maybe the skunks and sandspurs had them all stressed, and sand and alligators and snakes and racoonsand yankees.


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## Murphy's Law (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Lil' Scout (9/12/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *JoeZ (9/11/2009)*What kind of stress can a park ranger really be under?
> ...


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## HighCotton (Oct 2, 2007)

<DIV id=Section_Story class="Section Story">

<SPAN class=Story_Headline>Camping trip goes sour for Gulf Breeze family 
<SPAN class=Story_Subhead>Couple alleges they were harassed during outing near Fort Pickens 
*<SPAN class=Story_Byline>BY JOE CULPEPPER Gulf Breeze News [email protected] *


<TABLE border=0 width=1 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 bgColor=#d0d0d0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>







</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>*"My ancestors traded cookies to Geronimo out there for carved shells. My family has been going there since the very beginning of Pensacola. No bullies have stopped us from doing what we enjoy doing." - Mike Atkinson Gulf Breeze resident *</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>A Gulf Breeze family alleges they were harassed by U.S. Park Service law enforcement officers during an August camping outing in the Fort Pickens campground. 

Terry Morris, District Ranger of the Gulf Islands National Seashore in Gulf Breeze, confirmed he is investigating the conduct of two officers who were involved in a confrontation with Mike and Kathy Atkinson and their adult son, David, on Aug. 15. 

Mike and David Atkinson each were cited by Officer Melissa Lanshe for "interfering, resisting or threatening" with a complaint investigation. 

The Atkinsons allege that Lanshe's colleague, Officer Larry Edwards, committed assault and battery and grand theft for aggressively confiscating a cell-phone camera that David Atkinson used to videotape a heated verbal exchange between his parents and Edwards. The Atkinsons have not filed charges. 

The U.S. Attorney's Office will decide whether to prosecute the federal citations issued to the Atkinsons. If adjudication moves forward, a federal magistrate will hear testimony from both sides, issue a ruling or possibly drop the charges. 

"The offenses are petty," Morris said, "nothing serious. 

"Our collateral schedule says that when you have interference with an agency function, whether it's intimidation, harassment, failure to obey a lawful order, or just being threatened in a situation where an investigation is taking place, we have to issue a mandatory citation. 

"It could be dismissed before court," Morris continued, "It could be dismissed when the magistrate hears it, or it could result in a fine." 

Mike Atkinson maintains the citations were unjustified and hopes the charges will be dropped. 

"I just don't believe the whole (judicial) system could be that messed up," Atkinson said. "I believe, somewhere inside that system, there is some common sense. (Edwards') behavior was totally unjustified." 

*First encounter* *occurred on Thursday* 

The complaint had its origins on Thursday, Aug. 13, when Kathy Atkinson and her daughter drove to the Fort Pickens campground late in the afternoon and began setting up the family's camper tent. Kathy Atkinson's sons were to join her at the campsite later that evening. 

The sons, driving separate cars, entered the park after its 10 p m. closing time. Edwards, conducting his nightly patrol, engaged his cruiser's flashing lights and pulled the boys over. The officer was on alert because several acts of night-time vandalism had occurred in the park since it reopened May 22, nearly five years after Hurricane Ivan destroyed the area. 

Edwards became suspicious when the Atkinsons' teenage son, Jonathan, could not tell the officer which campsite or campground loop he was en route to. David, in the car behind Jonathan's, asked Edwards if there was a problem. 

"There better not be," Edwards allegedly responded in a gruff tone. He eventually sent the boys on their way. The following morning, still unnerved by his being stopped, Jonathan decided to opt out of the rest of the outing and returned home. The Atkinsons planned to camp until Saturday, Aug. 15. 

"It's unfortunate, because Larry was just trying to do his job," Morris said. "I think when Kathy learned her youngest child had been stopped, and she didn't know why, she reacted the way most moms would - 'You're harassing my son,' intimidation, that kind of thing. 

"Maybe there was too much action for what happened. Edwards had no inkling at that time that there was going to be a problem with that." 

*Campground monitor* *cites pair of violations* 

The following day, park personnel responsible for collecting fees and enforcing regulations discovered two apparent campground violations committed by the Atkinsons. The sons' vehicles were parked on the adjacent campsite. In addition, two tires on the Atkinsons' camper tent were positioned off the concrete slab and in the sand. 

A ranger left notes indicating the cars needed to be moved to the overflow parking area and the tent repositioned. 

"That rubbed (the Atkinsons) the wrong way," Morris said. 

Kathy Atkinson was agitated by the fact there was no one camping anywhere near her family's campsite. She also took exception to the thought her camper tent tires were damaging the sandy soil. 

"It just seemed totally ridiculous," Kathy Atkinson said. "I've just never run into a ranger who was that anal about sticking to rules that, at the time we were out there, made no sense at all. It was ludicrous to me that we would have to park my son's car all the way out on the street, which I'm guessing is about a half-mile away." 

The ranger left, and the Atkinsons did not move the vehicle. They enjoyed the rest of their Friday swimming in the Gulf and star-gazing at night. 

*Father tells son to* *film officer at scene* 

The next morning, Mike Atkinson, his son, David, and daughter, Rose, left the campsite to attend a Catholic Mass and reenactment of the De Luna ship landing commemorating the 450th anniversary of the founding of Pensacola. 

Kathy Atkinson stayed behind to treat some ant bites and begin disassembling the campsite. A ranger returned and discovered that one vehicle on the adjoining campsite had not been moved, and the tires of the camper tent remained on the sand. 

He radioed for assistance, and Lanshe and Edwards responded. They asked Kathy Atkinson for her identification, which was in the car with her husband and children on the way to Mass. Kathy called Mike on her cell phone and asked him to return to the campground. 

Moments later, Edwards and Kathy Atkinson became embroiled in a loud, heated verbal confrontation. As he returned, Mike Atkinson saw that the situation had escalated to what he considered a dangerous level, and he instructed his son, David, to film the episode on his cell-phone camera. 

"The officer was in my wife's face," Mike said. "She was shaking and crying. We could tell by his verbal and body language from the car as we were approaching that he was violent. 

"When I got to the campsite, I stepped between my wife and the officer (Edwards) and asked him what he was doing. He told me to shut up, it was none of my business and he was going to arrest me. He said he didn't need a reason." 

Mike told Edwards he was being filmed on his son's cellphone camera. Edwards moved toward David and snatched the cell phone from the young man's hand. That's when Edwards' partner, Lanshe, quieted the situation and ticketed Mike and David Atkinson for interfering with their investigation. 

"It was a heated debate," Morris said, relating Edwards' description of the altercation. "It was toe-to-toe and face-to-face. Edwards said he observed David Atkinson sticking his arm into his cruiser and filming the interior. There were two secured weapons in there and other assorted governmental and personal items in there. 

"Edwards said he believed the son was trespassing into the vehicle, though he never touched it." 

Mike Atkinson admitted he had strong words for Edwards, who, Atkinson alleged, blocked his path as he attempted to carry an ice chest to his vehicle. 

"I asked him if he realized he was in America and we were American citizens, and he had no right to act that way," Atkinson said. "I told him he was a disgrace. I witnessed him abusing my wife to the point that he had spit flying out of his mouth when he was screaming at her. She was trembling. He needs some anger management counseling." 

*'Mistakes were* *made on both sides'* 

Morris personally returned David Atkinson's cell phone late in the afternoon of Aug. 15. He said he is investigating whether Edwards' actions and demeanor were warranted. 

"I think Larry, Mike, and to some extent Kathy, all got too excited, amped up and escalated the whole thing way more than it ever should have been," Morris said. "There were mistakes made on both sides; things were said on both sides they wish they could take back. 

"Larry might have gone too far in a couple of things he said. Mike admitted he had a temper. It will come out in my investigation. If, indeed, those things were said, then Edwards will be counseled for those and possibly written up, reprimanded or disciplined beyond that." 

Morris said federal officers undergo specialized training in behavioral science and dealing with conflict, resolution of conflict, communications and interviewing skills. Additionally, officers get 40 hours a year of law enforcement training. 

Morris said the National Park Service has just five commissioned law enforcement officers - three fulltime including Edwards and two seasonal - covering an area of the Gulf Islands National Seashore from near Fort Walton Beach to Perdido Key and parts of Naval Air Station Pensacola. 

"One thing I'm looking at is the stress element," Morris said. "We are short-handed right now. We have fewer rangers handling more incidents. The incidence of vandalism and criminal activity in our area has increased. I'm thinking a little bit of job stress might have taken place here, and it rolled into this thing." 

The Atkinsons have camped at U.S. and state parks all around the country for decades. They frequently camped on Santa Rosa Island for years prior to Ivan. They eagerly anticipated the campground's reopening to return to a spot they hold dear. 

That's changed, now. 

"I don't believe my wife or children will want to camp there again," Mike Atkinson said. "I will, though. My ancestors traded cookies to Geronimo out there for carved shells. My family has been going there since the very beginning of Pensacola. 

"No bullies have stopped us from doing what we enjoy doing." </DIV>


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Wugitus (9/11/2009)* There were a number of posts about trouble to guests of Fort Pickens. .




Where were these posts posted?



I have not heard any stories.


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## HighCotton (Oct 2, 2007)

> *johnsonbeachbum (9/12/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Wugitus (9/11/2009)* There were a number of posts about trouble to guests of Fort Pickens. .
> ...


Here's the thread:

http://pensacolafishingforum.com/fishingforum/Topic400788-17-1.aspx?Highlight=harassment


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

That is sad. I can't beleieve THEY are the ones being charged, They should have charged the cops with theft and bettery. Typical.


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

someone needs to send that thread to the guy at gulf breeze news


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## FishinFreak (Oct 2, 2007)

Hmmmm. Damn sure wouldn't happen in MY or MY WIFE'S face!!!


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

> *HighCotton (9/12/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *johnsonbeachbum (9/12/2009)*
> ...




Thanks


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

> *HighCotton (9/12/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *johnsonbeachbum (9/12/2009)*
> ...




The "problem child" in this thread as well as the thread linked above are the same:



Ranger Larry Edwards.



For those that want to contact those in charge:



Gulf Islands National Seashore- 1801 Gulf Breeze Parkway- Gulf Breeze, FL 32563 - 850-934-2600



Management Staff



Superintendent--Jerry Eubanks



Deputy Superintendent--Nina Kelson



Administrative Officer--Cathy Losher



Chief of Facility Management--R.W. Jenkins



Chief of Science and Resource Management--Rick Clark



Chief of Interpretation and Education--Gail Bishop



ChiefRanger--Clayton Jordan





All email addresses for these people go like this: [email protected]



or first name_last [email protected]


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## Sailing_Faith (Mar 11, 2009)

> ..."I asked him if he realized he was in America and we were American citizens, and he had no right to act that way," Atkinson said. "I told him he was a disgrace. I witnessed him abusing my wife to the point that he had spit flying out of his mouth when he was screaming at her. She was trembling. He needs some anger management counseling."....




Mike Atkinson did well in showing restraint. I am sure it was difficult. If he had reacted in the way he probably wanted to the outcome would have been very different.


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## ScullsMcNasty (Oct 4, 2007)

man that ranger is a asshole. he needs to understand he is a law enforcement officer and has to react professionally to a situation like that. i have seen this type of attitude with other members of law enforcement too. its like they are pissed off because they have to do their job. i have hadrangers so visually pissed off they are yelling and turning red because they caught me speeding. im like, "wtf?".. ima pest controller, i dont get mad when people have bug problems.. its their job and if they didnt have anyone bending or breaking the rules they wouldnt be needed..


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## Pass Time (Feb 6, 2009)

Itjust goes to show you how one or two stupid punk ass vandals can ruin a good family oriented camping outing by making law enforcement suspicious of everyone. It almost sounds like these rangers just needed something to do and more training in the "people skills " dept. I don't know. I was cited about 25 years ago for having half of one front tire hanging over the edge of the designated asphalt parking lot at Leeside Park. The ranger also tried to cite me for parking violations of about 20 of my party guests parking violations. With all of the respect I could muster I informed him it wasnot my responsibility to park my guests cars properly. We took a picture of my tire hanging over the edge and mailed it in with the citation and a check. What a bunch of bs. Write a f'ing ticket to some one not in a parking space.Some LEO's do not have a brain in there head and others should not be allowed to deal with people. Period!You know if an officer approachessomeonewith a nasty attitude they usually will get the same attitude back. It istheir job to be the professional.


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## Pourman1 (Oct 4, 2007)

I have both passes for Pickens / Johnsons Beach , and this pretty much seals it for me :boo ... never going out there again :doh ... I rarely do anyway , and I may go to Pensacola Beach once a year :sleeping ... I'll stay out on the Key :letsparty


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

Guys, tell me where I see this differently than you.... 

I see where both are wrong here if the storyare true.....Did I read where the initial stop indicated the sondidn't know where he was going.....If a police officer stops a pair of teenagers in "your" neighborhood after hours and they dont know what house they are going to would you be suspicious???? I would....... Second, The Atkinsons were warned about TWO violations and they completely ignored them because the petty laws of the park just dont apply top them because they used to trade cookies with Geronimo. Laws apply to me and I try my hardest to abide by them no matter how petty they seemed to be....I was pulled over last weekend on the way to St. Joe and the officer said he couldnt see my plate from 100 ft away because of the cooler in my cargo carrier....Even if he could see it 100 ft away I doubt he could read it anyway....but I simply apologized and reorganized my cargo...It wasNOT a traumatic experience that ruined my labor day weekend, just an officer doing his job ( I really think this was a clever excuse to check for drunk drivers).... My Dad always told me to say "yes sir" and "no sir" to any officer of the law and never to argue with him...."If I had a legitimate argument, tell it to the judge in court because he should listen where the officer usually never does".....However, if an officer was out of line with my wifeI am immediately right there in the middle to protect her....But she better not be escalating the situation which is what I read from the story.... 

I wont say who is at fault, seems both are but I would like to see the video to see proof of the argument.


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## Pourman1 (Oct 4, 2007)

Well , this isn't the first incident involving the said officer :banghead ... just sounds like they're "Nit-Picking" out there :doh


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## billyk (Nov 15, 2007)

I think in this case there is plenty of blame to share, on both sides.

It is a-bit nit-picky, I know the rules are the rules, but couldn't the extra car, parked in the camping spot next door simply have been handled, bu saying

" If somebody comes along, and wants that spot, you are gonna have to move"

and the wheels on the sand ? Is it that bid a deal really ?

again, I understand the rules, and the "other side of the coin" arguements.

And, as far as the folks in question are concerned, 3 contacts with LEO's in 2 days ? Hell I might be alittle indignant with them myself !

I don't know, I have found that being polite, and following the rules, goes along way towards ZERO contact with the authorities.


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't know, I have found that being polite, and following the rules, goes along way towards ZERO contact with the authorities.[/quote]

Best thing I have read all day......well said......


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

> *no woryz (9/12/2009)*Guys, tell me where I see this differently than you....
> 
> I see where both are wrong here if the storyare true.....Did I read where the initial stop indicated the sondidn't know where he was going.....If a police officer stops a pair of teenagers in "your" neighborhood after hours and they dont know what house they are going to would you be suspicious???? I would.......*Not when the person is headed to join up in a small campground with their mother. I would just drive in and look for my mother and or their car and camper. Not the same as driving into a strange neighborhood looking for someone without an address. Besides, I can't believe the two sons and mother did not have cell phones so that they could confirm their intent right there with the officer present in 30 seconds?*, Second, The Atkinsons were warned about TWO violations and they completely ignored them because the petty laws of the park just dont apply top them because they used to trade cookies with Geronimo. Laws apply to me and I try my hardest to abide by them no matter how petty they seemed to be....I was pulled over last weekend on the way to St. Joe and the officer said he couldnt see my plate from 100 ft away because of the cooler in my cargo carrier....Even if he could see it 100 ft away I doubt he could read it anyway....but I simply apologized and reorganized my cargo...It wasNOT a traumatic experience that ruined my labor day weekend, just an officer doing his job ( I really think this was a clever excuse to check for drunk drivers).... My Dad always told me to say "yes sir" and "no sir" to any officer of the law and never to argue with him...."If I had a legitimate argument, tell it to the judge in court because he should listen where the officer usually never does".....However, if an officer was out of line with my wifeI am immediately right there in the middle to protect her....But she better not be escalating the situation which is what I read from the story....
> 
> I wont say who is at fault, seems both are but I would like to see the video to see proof of the argument.


Yes technically they broke two rules, the car in the other camping spot and a tire off of the cement. If no one was wanting the other campsite, what is the harm? The story sounds as if the officer was still pissed over his encounter with the same family fromprevious and was bound and determined that he was going to issue a citation for something, <U>anything.</U> He most likely would have issued a citation for minors with tobacco too if nothing else.


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## cissysdad (Oct 7, 2007)

if they cant take the so called STRESS get another job::moon


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm curious as to what previous vandalism was done. The park is still virtually a disaster after 5 years of them having done not much out there to clean it up, and now they're complaining about vandals? I'm skeptical.


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## oceansbreeze (May 1, 2009)

After reading this and the one back in Early August,

http://pensacolafishingforum.com/fishingforum/Topic400788-17-1.aspx?Highlight=harassment <P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">and since I wasn't there for any of them, I don't know what happen, I am not making any judgments?.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">*But if youmake a complaint do it to your United State Congressperson not the park personnel, some policies come from middle management and they want to protect their employees so your complaint goesin file 13 (trash can). Just like the Postal Service nothing really happens until youcontact your Congressperson. Then there has to be an inquiry regarding your complaint and most departments do not want things coming from the very top down and problems are solved very quickly.** Do as facts, not as letter or story, anddo not use pronouns (I, me, we, he, she, them, him, dumbass, etc.) use names or titles with description of the person at the beginning link to the title.*<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Here a quick link to contact your congressperson for your district (not the parks district congressperson). You may want to copy your Senators and the president too.

<SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi">http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml


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## FLbeachbum (Jul 17, 2008)

Not to say the above did not happen, however I had a pleasant situation with a ranger a few weeks back. I was not aware of the night owl pass and or the regulations about being out of the park by 10pm. Anyway, around 10:15 I was driving just past the pier when an officer stop me. He, simply asked if I was on my way out and told me about the 10pm, and night owl thing. I said I was leaving and he let me go. I remember thinking to myself how pleasant he was and that he may have had the right to give me an attitude but did not. Very pleasant, very professional. I guess I was lucky in that I dealt with one of the "good guys".


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## thataway (Oct 15, 2007)

Oceansbreeze certainly has the right idea. You might even take it a step further. Have your congressman ask for a review by the Inspector General of the Dept of the Interior's office. I suspect that step would get some very prompt action. l have always had very good luck with my congressional representatives (even when dealing with the IRS if something was out of line)

This certainly sounds like a nit picking problem. But we have certainly seen that at Ft. Mcrae in the past also. These "rangers" are not professional lawmen--and unfortunately they can be unprofessional. Dangerous to give a guy 40 hours of "law enforcement training", a gun and handcuffs, and turn him loose on the public! I suspect that many of them could not even become skilled with a handgun in 40 hours...


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## BOHUNTER1 (Feb 18, 2008)

Little man Syndrome.

Best thing to do is get ya crap up and leave. If everyone sends emails and the news gets involved this dude will be looking for a job! In a public place you dont need a jerkwad....

If he was in a heeded discussion in the face of the woman as stated he has ISSUES! Cant fix stupid.

Glad to know this I wont be stayingthere with my family, I might swat a fly!


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## mongo (Apr 30, 2008)

Replying to Thataway:

Just for clarification that is an extra 40 hours per year training they do. The state and federal government requires at least 40 hours of retraining for all law enforcement officers every year to keep our standards(certifications) current. Those rangers still have to attend rookie school and other on the job training before they are realeased solo just like we do. That being said, if someone is just a natural born jackass with a real attitude problem, no amount of training is going to fix it any way and they need to find a new line of work. I love being an LEO, but there are some people that have no business with a badge. We are tought to try and de-escalate situations rather than escalate them. Sometimes cops are their own worst enemies and I have seen several get themselves hurt because they pissed off someone that wasn't riled up to begin with.


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## Best Defense (Nov 8, 2007)

ONCE AGAIN "TO MANY BARNEY'S NOT ENOUGH ANDY'S"::doh:doh:doh


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## Halfmoon (Oct 3, 2007)

First I heard of this.


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

Way back in the day at FP We were driving towards the fort say 9 Ish on the weekend at night. A car was coming at us maybe a mile away with the high beams on. As we got closer they never dimnd them down. Within 50yrds after were blinded & flashing the lights back at them did we realize its a damn ranger. Of course blue lights came on. You know the rest. We were giulty. I'll Never forget that. Under age, Blah Blah Blah. Tell it to your parents. Wasnt right then , Not right now.Was that entrapment? I think so.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

I think the current position of law enforcement is to write as many citations as possible. Every level of government is crying about lack of funds.

So each agency has motive to write as many revenue generating citations as possible.

Especially the charges that do not require the alleged perp to appear in court.

They are counting on the alleged perp to plead guilty or no contest and just pay the fine. 

They know the odds of someone fighting a citation that does not require a court appearance to plead, will not go to court and fight. 

With the economy the way it is the alleged perp are even less likely to fight the charge in court and risk losing their job.

Let alone have to take a day or more off in order to fight in court.



And if the citation is issued on national park property, do they have to appear in federal court in Atlanta or Pensacola??


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

bump


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## FreeLine (Oct 5, 2007)

I do not go to Naval Live Oaks any more because of a few over-bearing Rangers there (although some are very nice!). Rangers need to use common sense, and their leaders need to instill on the Rangers that they work for the public. The public does not work for them. Also, they need to emphasize that the parks belong to the public - not to the Rangers. A little common senseandfriendliness by the Rangers will go a long wayin making the parks better for everyone.


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## Freedom Outlaw (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Best Defense (9/13/2009)*ONCE AGAIN "TO MANY BARNEY'S NOT ENOUGH ANDY'S"::doh:doh:doh




Fantastic quote and very, very applicable.


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## Sam Roberts (Oct 22, 2007)

Melissa Lanshe is pure trouble. i was at the beach with my gf and we were trying to pull into the boardwalk when there were two PRs w/o there lights talkingand blocking the entrance I was trying to go into. Well they were in way so i was in the middle of the road, when a car rear ends me. So instantly she puts on her lights. Well I get out and throw my hands up in rage, and ask what the heck were you doing blocking traffic with no lights on. She became real irrate, tell me she was going to take me to jail for "flipping her the bird". WhichI didn't dosowhen I saw this going south i reached in my car and called 9-11. Meanwhile when the police were on the way she puts me in cuffs. Once I explained that I didn't do anything wrong, the officer took me out of the cuffs. She ended up being put on a formal investigation. She really needs to be taken off the "force"


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## Pourman1 (Oct 4, 2007)

And OUR tax dollars pay THEIR salaries :doh


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## MAXWELL (Nov 11, 2008)

Sam, putting you in handcuffs seems like a good use of my tax dollars.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

The rules posted at our public recreational facilities are for everyone's benefit and apply equally to all that use the facility. By using public recreational facilities we agree to abide by the posted rules. If you have a problem with the rules you should write the appropriate parks department and propose amendments to the rules. It is not our right to disregard rules or laws that we may feel are petty or don't apply to us. This whole situation could have been avoided by the "injured" party correcting their camp site violations or leaving the facility. Most expressed opinions that the park rangers were wrong for doing their job. How many of you would tolerate someone coming into your work place, disregarding some applicable rules and then get in your face. None of us were there and we haven't seen the video or heard the rangers side of the story.


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## Pourman1 (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Kim (9/14/2009)* How many of you would tolerate someone coming into your work place, disregarding some applicable rules and then get in your face ...


 happens every day :letsdrink


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

> *Pourman1 (9/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Kim (9/14/2009)* How many of you would tolerate someone coming into your work place, disregarding some applicable rules and then get in your face ...
> ...


And we (at least most of us)don't get to cuff people and confiscate their property when it happens.


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## thataway (Oct 15, 2007)

Mango, Thanks for the clarification of continuing law enforcement education vs initial training. At the Dept of interior I found the following:

"Permanent Park Ranger jobs begin with 18 weeks of comprehensive law enforcement training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) in Georgia. NPS FLETC training consists of classroom training in many subjects including criminal law, ethics, and law enforcement techniques. Practical classes cover subjects including arrest techniques and boat and vehicle operations. A high speed driving track lets students test their skills. Daily physical fitness and shooting skills are also emphasized. NPS FLETC training is immediately followed by an 11 week field training assignment in a national park where students will perform law enforcement duties under the guidance of an instructor/trainer. The NPS FLETC and practical field training programs are some of the best available in federal law enforcement!"

A long time ago when I was growing up Park rangers didn't need to be LEO, they were stewards of the park. I come from Calif. where 35 years ago, some life guards were given guns and boats and became harbor patrol officers, and State Park Rangers were also given guns, and went from being Life Guards to guardians of their stretch of the beach. Attitudes changed from serving the public to policing the public--and there is a difference.


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## fisherboy20 (Jun 3, 2009)

thats a load of horse crap:banghead


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## studter (Apr 1, 2009)

Like other people have said we don't know the whole story. But I could total see these people saying we have been coming here for years and never have had this problem. Why should you move you car from someone else camp site, cause you was asked, it's like parking in your neighbors driveway and you don't know them. Then you was just asked to get your tire off the sand, but instead of taking maybe 10 mintues out of your time you go off to the beach, swimming & all the other fun things you want to do. Then when the rangers come back and ask questions why they haven't made moves the Mom prolly gets defensive & escaltes from there. I have had bad encounters with law enforcement but I have also had bad encounters when I have tried to enforce the law or something on my property. How I see it, is if they would have just listen to the law none of that none sense would have happen..


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

I agree that the people should have done what the rangers asked them to do. Not doing so was just dumb in my opinion. I also think that from what was written, the officer should have probably behaved in a more professional manner. I can imagine that he probably has to deal with idiots on a daily basis and it all builds up but he is still someone who should keep his temper. Issue the citation and carry on. Keep issuing citations if need be.


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## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

> *konz (9/15/2009)*I agree that the people should have done what the rangers asked them to do. Not doing so was just dumb in my opinion. I also think that from what was written, the officer should have probably behaved in a more professional manner. I can imagine that he probably has to deal with idiots on a daily basis and it all builds up but he is still someone who should keep his temper. Issue the citation and carry on. Keep issuing citations if need be.


If you want to fight do it with a lawyeror just SHUT UP!!! and obey the law.


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

I agree Hook, and I should have mentioned that also. Arguing with the Ranger was a stupid move. Being respectful will go much further (you can still ask questions and be respectful at the same time).


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## Wugitus (Oct 16, 2008)

Has anybody been contactd bi the newspaper??


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

> *MAXWELL (9/14/2009)*Sam, putting you in handcuffs seems like a good use of my tax dollars.


Ryan, I would pay extra taxes for that...


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## Sam Roberts (Oct 22, 2007)

> *Dylan (9/18/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *MAXWELL (9/14/2009)*Sam, putting you in handcuffs seems like a good use of my tax dollars.
> ...


yall ain't right!I bet you would try and put me in jail dylan...:shedevil


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

Nah, you do a pretty good job yourself..Youll be in there sooner or lateroke


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## John_1978 (Sep 22, 2009)

Not long after the Pier re-opened I was night fishing and had one the rangers harrass me and the other 5 people that were thier that night. All of us had our night-owl permits, but this guy was just way over the top in verifying who we were and what we were driving (asking us two to three times each). 

Later that night some yahoos show up and fire up a generator and light off a grill on the pier. No sign of a Ranger, and they made it clear that they did not care what the rules were. I made a call, and found out that "no one was available, and as long as they are not causing a disturbance it should be ok". :banghead


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## jacobmandel (Jul 7, 2011)

*I was arrested on johnsons beach*

Me and my fiancé tried to go camping on johnsons beach this past mothers day and I was arrested by Mellisa Taylor. She seems to ride a pretty high horse. Was this the same lady as mellisa lanche maybe recently changed her name?


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## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

John_1978 said:


> Not long after the Pier re-opened I was night fishing and had one the rangers harrass me and the other 5 people that were thier that night. All of us had our night-owl permits, but this guy was just way over the top in verifying who we were and what we were driving (asking us two to three times each).
> 
> Later that night some yahoos show up and fire up a generator and light off a grill on the pier. No sign of a Ranger, and they made it clear that they did not care what the rules were. I made a call, and found out that "no one was available, and as long as they are not causing a disturbance it should be ok". :banghead


 
If it bothered you get on the cell phone and call the ramger. The pier use to have alot of business done there:whistling:


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

We have no idea what she said to the ranger in the beginning. If she explained that she was packing up while her husband was at mass, he likely would have gone away if she didn't get smart with him. I imagine that law enforcement puts up with a lot of crap from people who think that the rules do not apply to them. I'm sure that they love it whens someone says that they pay their salary. Then again he may just have a burr up his butt and she received the worst of it that day.


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)

i know mike atkin. personally. he is an intelligent, laid back, nice and helpful guy.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

SHunter said:


> We have no idea what she said to the ranger in the beginning. If she explained that she was packing up while her husband was at mass, he likely would have gone away if she didn't get smart with him. I imagine that law enforcement puts up with a lot of crap from people who think that the rules do not apply to them. I'm sure that they love it whens someone says that they pay their salary. Then again he may just have a burr up his butt and she received the worst of it that day.



It's clear you haven't dealt with Larry Edwards!! Haha! I guarantee all of you taking up for the Rangers in this situation have never had the pleasure of meeting this gentleman either!

I had a run in with him once. It got out of control quick! Long story short he had a problem with the location of my boat. I told him I didn't understand what the problem was and ASKED him to PLEASE explain the situation to me because the FWC had told me something entirely different. He told me " I am a man in uniform and I would do ANYTHING he told me to do"! He was screaming like a lunatic so I was having a hard time understanding the rest of what he said. 

He is dangerous and has serious social and mental problems. I'm very serious about that. 

Meet him once and you won't forget it.


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Matt, I hope that you filed a complaint. I have probably been lucky so far because I haven't had anything like this happen. Thanks for the information.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I don't know if this Edwards guy is the one that was working there about 5 years ago, which was the last time, and I do mean the last time, that I will ever camp at Ft. Pickens. Who ever it was, he has some serious issues.

I still had my Bayliner at that time. My brother and his family were going to meet me the next day and we were going to camp at Ft. Pickens and spend a few days fishing, laying on the beach, etc. I reserved a camp spot and decided that instead of putting the boat in the water I would just park it at the camp site and sleep on it that night since they weren't suppose to be there until the next morning. So I parked it at about 16:00, got my AC connected up, made sure all was secured, and then went back into Pensacola Beach at around 18:00 to get something to eat and to fish around the lights at Quitewater.

At about 12:30 I made it back out to the campsite and had bedded down for the night. About 01:30 I'm awakened by somebody knocking on the hull of the boat. I get up and it's a park ranger who tells me that I can't have my truck and my boat parked on the same pad and that my boat is off the pad and I will have to move it. (I didn't think that it was a problem since most of the RVs had cars parked beside them on their pads). And, yes, technically my boat was off the pad since one wheel was about 4" past the asphalt and into the sand. But rules are rules and you've got to draw the line somewhere.

At this point I told the ranger I wasn't aware of the rule about the truck but that I would go ahead and move it to the spare vehicle area and that I would move the boat first thing in the morning, all in a very appologetic tone (I thought). 

He said "No! You will move it NOW"! 

Me: "Now?" (remember _now_ is ~01:45)

Him: "WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!!!!" (In a voice loud enough to wake up the people camping on both sides of me and in the RV across the road).

Me: (WTF?):confused1:

Him:"....VIOLATING THE RULES OF THIS CAMPGROUND........I JUST TOLD YOU MOVE YOUR BOAT.....DISTROYING GOVENMENT PROPERTY.....I HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO HAVE YOU ARRESTED IF YOU DON'T COMPLY......DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?...." (picture R. Lee Ermey on meth)

Me: "Ok, Ok I'll move it!"

So at around 02:00 I unplug my AC, get all my gear out of the way, hook up and move my boat over 4", unhook from the boat, move my truck to the spare vehicle lot, walk back, move all my gear back to the boat, and try to go back to sleep. During this time I can hear the guys in the tent on the adjacent camp site bitching about all the noise (as I would have been at 3:00 am).


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> I think the current position of law enforcement is to write as many citations as possible. Every level of government is crying about lack of funds.
> 
> So each agency has motive to write as many revenue generating citations as possible.
> 
> ...


Not true...I havent written a ticket in at least four years
..no requirement or obligation to write tickets


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## beeritself (Nov 25, 2010)

Interesting. I used to work on the ambulance in Gulf Breeze, but we covered the beach at night. I had a few encounters this officer's parter, Melissa Lanshe. She is a grade A you know what. We had several problems with this "lady" which resulted in contacting her supervisor and filing formal complaints. 

Seems to me the park rangers just need to get rid of a few bad apples. I have never had any problems with any of the other ones. Oh well, thats just my 2 cents.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

jacobmandel said:


> Me and my fiancé tried to go camping on johnsons beach this past mothers day and I was arrested by Mellisa Taylor. She seems to ride a pretty high horse. Was this the same lady as mellisa lanche maybe recently changed her name?


So were you deserving arrest or what?


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Not true...I havent written a ticket in at least four years
> ..no requirement or obligation to write tickets


Perhaps for you and your agency.
Might be tough to find something to write a ticket for in your duties.
I have no idea what agency you might work for.


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Anyone know what happens to a park ranger when a formal written complaint is filed? Does is do any good to file one. It sounds like several of you had reason to do this. I thought that banging on hulls in the middle of the night only happened in South Florida. Amazing that someone has not been hurt.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

beeritself said:


> ...Seems to me the park rangers just need to get rid of a few bad apples. I have never had any problems with any of the other ones.


My experience has been about 50/50 with the national park rangers both here and in other areas (Natchez Trace). Half are very helpful and accomodating to the public and the other half seem to have the attitude that "This is my park and the only reason that I'm tolerating your presence here is that I'm required to by some stupid law." Since their job isn't directly dependant on how many people use the park, the more that they can run off through harassment, the easier it will be. The public is just a nusiance to them.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Play'N Hooky said:


> My experience has been about 50/50 with the national park rangers both here and in other areas (Natchez Trace). Half are very helpful and accomodating to the public and the other half seem to have the attitude that "This is my park and the only reason that I'm tolerating your presence here is that I'm required to by some stupid law." Since their job isn't directly dependant on how many people use the park, the more that they can run off through harassment, the easier it will be. The public is just a nusiance to them.



Natchez Trace is godawful.


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## whyworry (Aug 17, 2010)

Park Employees are federal civil service. They have standards to meet in the performance of their duties. Certainly officers have standards related to proper interaction with park users. Their reporting seniors can not ignore official complaints filed by the public that report poor performance related to interaction with the public. It may take a long time - several years - but they can be fired.


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## jacobmandel (Jul 7, 2011)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> So were you deserving arrest or what?


We parked at the last area parking was allowed and I was unaware of the camping 1/2 past the parking rule and there was nobody at the toll booth to direct me and it was a good hour before sunset. I pulled up the map on the nps.gov website and it shows all of johnson's beach to be a campsite so we pulled our stuff out and dragged it a good ways towards the right direction but not enough and the first ranger to get to us was a miss Walker who was actually pretty informative and understanding she told me we were going to have to drag our stuff down a little more then a 1/4 mile and of course it aggravated me and I asked why there wasn't anybody in the toll booth so she asked me for my license while I got it out of my bag Miss Taylor showed up and overheard what was being said. She began yelling that the rules were on the bottom of the paperwork I was supposed to fill out at the toll booth and I got kinda smart and asked why she wasn't in the toll booth to give it to me. I also asked why there wasn't any NO CAMPING signs anywhere cause it was confusing. She then told me it was a reservation protecting the birds and beach mice and I laughed and said it didn't make sense that she showed up on a 900 cc gas powered four wheeler to tell me what me and my fiance were doing was hurting the environment. Meanwhile Miss Walker was looking over my license and when she got done she tried to give it back to me and I stuck my hand out thats when Miss Taylor jumped in between us and demanded I sit down. I just looked at her confused and she told me to put my hands behind my back so I willingly did. I was charged with assault for putting my hand out and resisting an officer for not sitting down. I also got 2 $75 park tickets one for camping in undesignated area and another for closure violation? The whole time Miss Taylor was telling Miss walker what to do and even how to drive! the whole way to the jail. It was a miserable experience, I am pleading not guilty and hoping I get a jury trial because I've found that this Taylor lady has a pretty bad reputation and recently attacked a woman on the beach and got pepper sprayed after pulling her stun gun out on a couples playful dog. You can find the map here http://www.nps.gov/guis/historyculture/african-american-history-rosamond-johnson.htm


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

jacobmandel said:


> We parked at the last area parking was allowed and I was unaware of the camping 1/2 past the parking rule and there was nobody at the toll booth to direct me and it was a good hour before sunset. I pulled up the map on the nps.gov website and it shows all of johnson's beach to be a campsite so we pulled our stuff out and dragged it a good ways towards the right direction but not enough and the first ranger to get to us was a miss Walker who was actually pretty informative and understanding she told me we were going to have to drag our stuff down a little more then a 1/4 mile and of course it aggravated me and I asked why there wasn't anybody in the toll booth so she asked me for my license while I got it out of my bag Miss Taylor showed up and overheard what was being said. She began yelling that the rules were on the bottom of the paperwork I was supposed to fill out at the toll booth and I got kinda smart and asked why she wasn't in the toll booth to give it to me. I also asked why there wasn't any NO CAMPING signs anywhere cause it was confusing. She then told me it was a reservation protecting the birds and beach mice and I laughed and said it didn't make sense that she showed up on a 900 cc gas powered four wheeler to tell me what me and my fiance were doing was hurting the environment. Meanwhile Miss Walker was looking over my license and when she got done she tried to give it back to me and I stuck my hand out thats when Miss Taylor jumped in between us and demanded I sit down. I just looked at her confused and she told me to put my hands behind my back so I willingly did. I was charged with assault for putting my hand out and resisting an officer for not sitting down. I also got 2 $75 park tickets one for camping in undesignated area and another for closure violation? The whole time Miss Taylor was telling Miss walker what to do and even how to drive! the whole way to the jail. It was a miserable experience, I am pleading not guilty and hoping I get a jury trial because I've found that this Taylor lady has a pretty bad reputation and recently attacked a woman on the beach and got pepper sprayed after pulling her stun gun out on a couples playful dog. You can find the map here http://www.nps.gov/guis/historyculture/african-american-history-rosamond-johnson.htm


What a horrible couple of stories. Surely somebody has filed complaints against these people (?).


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

jacobmandel said:


> We parked at the last area parking was allowed and I was unaware of the camping 1/2 past the parking rule and there was nobody at the toll booth to direct me and it was a good hour before sunset. I pulled up the map on the nps.gov website and it shows all of johnson's beach to be a campsite so we pulled our stuff out and dragged it a good ways towards the right direction but not enough and the first ranger to get to us was a miss Walker who was actually pretty informative and understanding she told me we were going to have to drag our stuff down a little more then a 1/4 mile and of course it aggravated me and I asked why there wasn't anybody in the toll booth so she asked me for my license while I got it out of my bag Miss Taylor showed up and overheard what was being said. She began yelling that the rules were on the bottom of the paperwork I was supposed to fill out at the toll booth and I got kinda smart and asked why she wasn't in the toll booth (she is a Ranger, not a toll booth employee, none of which venture around the park) to give it to me. I also asked why there wasn't any NO CAMPING signs anywhere cause it was confusing. She then told me it was a reservation protecting the birds and beach mice and I laughed and said it didn't make sense that she showed up on a 900 cc gas powered four wheeler to tell me what me and my fiance were doing was hurting the environment. Meanwhile Miss Walker was looking over my license and when she got done she tried to give it back to me and I stuck my hand out thats when Miss Taylor jumped in between us and demanded I sit down. I just looked at her confused and she told me to put my hands behind my back so I willingly did. I was charged with assault for putting my hand out and resisting an officer for not sitting down. I also got 2 $75 park tickets one for camping in undesignated area and another for closure violation? The whole time Miss Taylor was telling Miss walker what to do and even how to drive! the whole way to the jail. It was a miserable experience, I am pleading not guilty and hoping I get a jury trial because I've found that this Taylor lady has a pretty bad reputation and recently attacked a woman on the beach and got pepper sprayed after pulling her stun gun out on a couples playful dog. You can find the map here http://www.nps.gov/guis/historyculture/african-american-history-rosamond-johnson.htm


This would be the map link, clearly showing primative camping to be far to the right and beyond. http://www.nps.gov/guis/planyourvisit/upload/PK%20map.pdf

So this fiasco was on Mothers Day, May 8th, 2011 ??
At the "Toll Booth" there is a self serve area on the northwest corner of the booth. That is where a 4 foot square brown sign is with various rules.
Including the primative camping rules and the form to fill out.
If you do not fill out the form and leave a copy on the dashboard of your vehicle, the rangers will come looking for you after the park closes for the night. Thats because the fear someone might be in trouble or even drowned.
And thus they have to seach for the vehicle driver to find out why they are still in the park.
Were you camping between where the grass grows and the surf? Or up in the dunes?

May I ask you to post exactly what the charges/violations are as listed on the tickets/citations? There should be some numbers listed.
Especially the "closure violation" which would only be within a staked out (with fence posts) area with signage for nesting birds.


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## jacobmandel (Jul 7, 2011)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> This would be the map link, clearly showing primative camping to be far to the right and beyond. http://www.nps.gov/guis/planyourvisit/upload/PK%20map.pdf
> 
> So this fiasco was on Mothers Day, May 8th, 2011 ??
> At the "Toll Booth" there is a self serve area on the northwest corner of the booth. That is where a 4 foot square brown sign is with various rules.
> ...


I google searched Johnsons beach map on my iphone right before we unloaded our stuff and in the image results I found the map that is found on the link I posted if things have changed then they should change it on their own website. My charges are simple assault and resisting an officer my park violations are (camping outside designated camping area-36CFR 2.10) and (Closure Violation 36 CFR 1.5f) I was well far away from the dunes we were probably around 15 to 20 feet away from the water. My fiance actually started taping it on her phone but didn't start till the last cuff was being placed. If i posted it correctly you can find it here 



you can get a good idea of where i was on the beach at least.


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## REDFISH101 (Mar 27, 2009)

Ive had the same problems so i also will never camp at Ft.Pickens or Johnsons beach sorry to hear that


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

I am afraid your google image search for Johnson Beach camping area will not help your case.
But the link I provided to another map that actually shows the camping area is very buried on their website. That might help in your defense.
The citations you got are kinda wierd. Like they are for the same thing.
I do not see how they can cite you for both.
They might be using the 36CFR 2.10 to cite you for camping too close to a body of water. Or maybe parts #3 and/or #8, #9 & #10
http://www.lawserver.com/law/country/us/cfr/36_cfr_2-10

I hope you do not decide to plead no contest to everything.
There are some rouge rangers operating on GINS with God complexes.


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## Kingfish514 (Jan 21, 2009)

I would like to point out that there are some rangers that are not law enforcement. My wife works the child summer activities program, where they teach the kids about the parks history and about the enviroment. she takes them snorkling, siene netting, bike riding, and so forth. she is a National Park ranger with a badge but she has no gun and no authority. So don t hate all the rangers as most are interpretures of the park and not the law


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Kingfish - I'm glad that you clarified the difference among the rangers. I have met some of the education rangers at workshops and they seem very down to earth and want the kids to have a good time. The lady that I met at Dauphin Island did not act in the manner that is being described in these posts. Not sure what is going on with the ones that can arrest but people need to start filing complaints if it is this bad.


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)

chix with dix!


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

Jacob,
You should go after poor signage in regards to where you can and what forms your suppose to fill out in order to camp.
The rules and forms at the toll booth are out of plain sight from those entering the park via the road. You would have to circle the toll booth.
There use to be rules and forms on the gulf side of the buildings that are next to the big parking lot.
Again, hidden from view unless you park your vehicle and walk around the buildings to find them.
Then they have new big fancy/pretty signs up at the dune boardwalks going from the road to the gulf or lagoon.
Yet they do not mention where the camping is allowed.

Just so you know, the Park Service has erected a gulf side sign, about 18" square 1/2 mile east from the end of the road.
That sign was not there until mid-June. The sign says "Camping Allowed Beyond this Sign".

Perhaps your incident is what prompted the Park to erect that sign.


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## jacobmandel (Jul 7, 2011)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> Jacob,
> You should go after poor signage in regards to where you can and what forms your suppose to fill out in order to camp.
> The rules and forms at the toll booth are out of plain sight from those entering the park via the road. You would have to circle the toll booth.
> There use to be rules and forms on the gulf side of the buildings that are next to the big parking lot.
> ...


Thanks for all the useful input, I see what you mean on the law server site. I asked while walking away what I was being charged with but she ignored me. I don't think she gave it much thought until it was time to write the report. Here is a link in reference to another case Miss Taylor is involved in, she is the officer who wouldn't release her name. http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/attack-29731-held-park.html


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

I also had a bad experience out there years ago. I'll start off by saying I was in the wrong, young and dumb. 

It was back in 1998, I was 19 and I had just purchased a fishing kayak from Gulf Breeze bait and Tackle. My best friend was about to leave for the navy. We wanted to do some shark fishing and planned on paddling baits out in the gulf but it was a little too rough that night. So we decided to head to pickens and drop some baits off in the pass. Niether one of us had a night owl pass or could afford one at the time but thought we would fish until they ran us off. 
By the time we got to the point, got everything set up, got the 9/0 and 6/0 rigged it was pushing 10:30. So I grabbed the dive knife and start to cut a large bonita in half. Out of no where I hear "Freeze federal officer drop the knife and put your hands on your head!"
He asked as if it wasn't obvious what we where doing? I said fishing and he asked for IDs and if we had night owl passes. Then he checks the cooler and finds 2 beers(yeah second mistake). He tells us to packup and we are both going to jail for underage possesion and we pour out the beers.
We had alot of gear so it takes us a while and we are far from my truck. On the walk back he says he doesn't want to deal with all the paperwork so he wants one of us to take the blame. I said I would since my buddy had just enlisted in the navy. 
We finally get to the truck and he says I don't wanna do any paperwork. He tells us don't come back with alcohol and lets us go. I think if I didn't yes sir and no sir him things would have happened differently.
I think the way he drew his weapon on us without any reason was really messed up. I don't remember his name, just that he was an older guy with bonde hair and that he still works out there. 

I know all of the Atkinsons involved personally and they are very nice, respectful people that just had enough! I wasn't there so it doesn't matter what I think. I'll just say the entire situation should have happened differently...

I do know of several other people not on this forum that have had very bad experiences with that park ranger...


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## Kingfish514 (Jan 21, 2009)

He probally pulled the gun because it was late and he saw a knife, there were 2 of you and 1 of him


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## FLbeachbum (Jul 17, 2008)

Kingfish514 said:


> He probally pulled the gun because it was late and he saw a knife, there were 2 of you and 1 of him


 Perhaps he should have been prepared to pull his gun just in case, but to actually pull a gun on a fisherman with a knife is out of line. On a street corner a guy with a knife is much different than a fisherman on the beach with a legal knife in his hands.


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## Kingfish514 (Jan 21, 2009)

FLbeachbum said:


> Perhaps he should have been prepared to pull his gun just in case, but to actually pull a gun on a fisherman with a knife is out of line. On a street corner a guy with a knife is much different than a fisherman on the beach with a legal knife in his hands.


 Better to be safe then sorry, even when you get pulled over on the highway they walk up with there hand on there gun. I was watching the FWC reality show the other day, they were watching a family illegally feeding aligators, they knew they were unarmed but when the raided them, there guns were pulled. I guess its a judgement call


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## Fajah (Apr 8, 2009)

I just spend 10 days on loop A, durring out pack out to leave we had two cars pulled up to the site, the Rangers stopped to tell us we had to move a car, we explained that we were packing out and the cars would be moved shortly...they seemed OK with that although I did not get a good feeling when talking to them, they had hands on holsters and were calling in the plates on both cars....mind you this is in a family campground. 
I thought their bedside manner was horrible and I could see where their gestapo body language would put even the most law abiding people off a bit.


They were young men and probably doing exactly what they were trained to do however, it sure could have been different had they approached friendly.

There was no incident, only a chance to be make the stay better that was missed.


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## notreally (Aug 2, 2011)

*Not completely innocent?*



jacobmandel said:


> Thanks for all the useful input, I see what you mean on the law server site. I asked while walking away what I was being charged with but she ignored me. I don't think she gave it much thought until it was time to write the report. Here is a link in reference to another case Miss Taylor is involved in, she is the officer who wouldn't release her name. http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/attack-29731-held-park.html


Jacob, didn't you get pre-trial diversion for one of the charges? At least that's what clerk of court records indicate. Maybe not completely innocent?


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## notreally (Aug 2, 2011)

*Caddy Yakker?*

Caddy Yakker. All atkinsons involved good people? Young mike has been arrested at least once for battery on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both of which he pled no contest/ guilty to according to the clerk of courts web site. I've met him and he's not an contributing member of society nor is he an upstanding individual. Check the clerk of courts website. I assure you the conviction in 2005 is the right Atkinson.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

Fajah said:


> They were young men and probably doing exactly what they were trained to do however, it sure could have been different had they approached friendly.


They were men?
That is a surprise.
I have seen nothing but female Park LEO's on Johnson Beach in 2010 and 2011.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

notreally said:


> Jacob, didn't you get pre-trial diversion for one of the charges? At least that's what clerk of court records indicate. Maybe not completely innocent?


Or maybe a deal was made between the SA/PD and Jacob to drop one charge
If Jacob enters into
PRE-TRIAL DIVERSION PROGRAM on the other charge.

And the Atkinsons involved in that Aug. of 2009 episode with the Park LEO's never made it to court.
Wonder why?
http://www.gulfbreezenews.com/news/2009-09-10/front_page/003.html


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## notreally (Aug 2, 2011)

*Don't believe it all*



johnsonbeachbum said:


> Or maybe a deal was made between the SA/PD and Jacob to drop one charge
> If Jacob enters into
> PRE-TRIAL DIVERSION PROGRAM on the other charge.
> 
> ...


You aren't as in the know as you think. It did go to court. Not the desired result for the marijuana possessing elder and convicted felon son but it went to federal court. Just no conviction. Of course the Ranger supervisor at the time was neighbors with the Atkinsons and trie to offer quite a bit of resistance to his neighbors being prosecuted. Maybe they should investigate him. Don't believe everything they put in the papers


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

notreally said:


> You aren't as in the know as you think. It did go to court. Not the desired result for the marijuana possessing elder and convicted felon son but it went to federal court. Just no conviction. Of course the Ranger supervisor at the time was neighbors with the Atkinsons and trie to offer quite a bit of resistance to his neighbors being prosecuted. Maybe they should investigate him. Don't believe everything they put in the papers


I did not believe anything in the GBN.
So how come their case was done in Federal Court and Jacobs is going thru the local court?
And what was the Atkinsons court results exactly? 
Charges dropped?
Not guilty?

And you can't use past convictions to convict on current charges, right?


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## whyworry (Aug 17, 2010)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> They were men?
> That is a surprise.
> I have seen nothing but female Park LEO's on Johnson Beach in 2010 and 2011.


Fajah was talking about Loop A - part of the camping area at Ft. Pickens.


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

jacobmandel said:


> I am pleading not guilty and hoping I get a jury trial ]


You can demand a Jury trial, but you will most definitely want a lawyer also. In order to bring in the prior incidents you are going to have to show that they are relevant to your case. Are they? The priors must be proven and not just alleged, then they can be used to show a pattern of actions and goes to character. Good luck.


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

notreally said:


> Caddy Yakker. All atkinsons involved good people? Young mike has been arrested at least once for battery on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both of which he pled no contest/ guilty to according to the clerk of courts web site. I've met him and he's not an contributing member of society nor is he an upstanding individual. Check the clerk of courts website. I assure you the conviction in 2005 is the right Atkinson.


Well your opinion on Mike Atkinson is just that! Yeah maybe he has made a couple mistakes in his past...EVERYONE has! Whether or not they were caught is another story. I don't know when you met him but he has changed alot. Yeah he is the type of person that will let you know if he doesn't like you and I bet you are one of those people. He is a good person and just because you met him doesn't give you the right to judge him. I've known him since he was born! 

If you did a background check on everyone one this forum I bet over half have made mistakes in the past. You seem like the type of person that would do that too if you could. I judge a man by their actions now, not saying forget the past. But hope they learn from their mistakes.

You my friend are a grave digger and obviously a coward. I bet you have another screen name and created "notreally" to hide behind.


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## notreally (Aug 2, 2011)

*Caddy Yakker*

Caddy Yakker, you're and idiot. The boy you've known since he was born has been arrested more than once for battery on a law enforcement officer. He has no respect for the laws in the state and thinks they don't apply to him. You've shown what type if person you are. Mistakes happen. Commit a certain crime once it's a mistake, commit the same crime more than once and I think most would consider you a criminal. Once again, you're an idiot.


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## MGuns (Dec 31, 2007)

Every story usually has two sides and the truth in somewhere in the middle. A lot of the complaints I’ve read seem to be about someone violating a rule and then complaining about the rule and either refusing to take the required action to correct their violation because the rule seems idiotic in their opinion which doesn’t mean crap when you’re getting ticketed or stating I’ll take care of it later. If you’re in violation of a rule you are wrong!!! If you think the rule is stupid then spend your time and use the system to try and effect the change. Some of the action taken by the Rangers does seem a bit harsh and over the top, but again two sides to every story. Just because there isn’t anyone at the neighboring site doesn’t give you the right to park there. What if someone arrives to use the neighboring site and you are not at your site to move your illegally parked vehicle, now this person has to try and track you down or park illegally himself because of your actions. If you follow the rules, not partially, you should be OK. If in fact there are a few bad apple Rangers then hopefully that’ll come out of the investigation and corrective action taken. Bottom line it’s better to be respectful at ALL times to LEO and Rangers and if necessary take your action to the appropriate personnel after the fact. Just MHO.


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

I do believe that a lot of this would have been alleviated if the family had moved the vehicles as told. The fault of the ranger is that he let his silly self get mad and react inappropriately for the situation.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

notreally said:


> Caddy Yakker, you're and idiot. The boy you've known since he was born has been arrested more than once for battery on a law enforcement officer. He has no respect for the laws in the state and thinks they don't apply to him. You've shown what type if person you are. Mistakes happen. Commit a certain crime once it's a mistake, commit the same crime more than once and I think most would consider you a criminal. Once again, you're an idiot.



Snap. S--t just got real.


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

aroundthehorn said:


> Snap. S--t just got real.


Lol yeah maybe.... It doesn't get much more real than creating another account on here to hide behind?

I agree and have stated that the Atkinsons could probably have avoided this situation by just complying with the rangers request.
But the rangers obviously have a habit of mistreating park guest.

The said person with a criminal record wasn't even present when the main altercation started and assaulted the LEOs by videoing the altercation only to have it snatched away. 

Hell I might have gotten a charge of assault if I returned to find a LEO yelling at my mother like a dog.

Wrong is wrong and yes both parties were in the wrong. But this thread is about the history of problems with rangers at Ft. Pickens not one altercation. Hopefully things have or will change so we all can enjoy our national parks.

Sincerely,
an "Idiot"........not a coward
Lol


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Caddy Yakker said:


> Lol yeah maybe.... It doesn't get much more real than creating another account on here to hide behind?
> 
> I agree and have stated that the Atkinsons could probably have avoided this situation by just complying with the rangers request.
> But the rangers obviously have a habit of mistreating park guest.
> ...



Bark up his tree, not mine!


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## Caddy Yakker (May 21, 2011)

aroundthehorn said:


> Bark up his tree, not mine!


Lol, sorry wasn't directed at you at all


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Caddy Yakker said:


> Lol, sorry wasn't directed at you at all



Preach on. The world is full of internet tough guys.


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