# Mary Joyce busted



## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

Escambia county 
​_March 29 – April 4, 2013 
_weekly report 

At approximately 2 a.m., Officers Kenneth Manning, Randall Brooks, John Clark, Faris Livesay, and Lieutenant Dan Hahr worked with NOAA Officer Grant Demesillo to conduct an Individual Fish Quota (IFQ) inspection on the fishing vessel _Mary Joyce_. After the vessel docked, the captain and deckhand offloaded four large coolers containing approximately 600 pounds of red snapper. The offload of fish is prohibited between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. A truck met the vessel crew at the dock and loaded the coolers into the bed. As the truck attempted to leave, the officers conducted a stop and inspection of the vehicle and vessel. The captain stated he was going to sell the fish to several individuals to make extra money on the side. The four coolers containing 587 pounds of red snapper and one undersized cobia were seized. Federal charges against the captain are pending.


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## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

Shame, shame....


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## Donnie24 (Jan 12, 2013)

That's gonna be one HELL of fine!!


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Hat's off to our FWC officers! :notworthy:


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## cody&ryand (Oct 3, 2007)

Hope they stick them and don't just give them a slap on the wrist


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

what do you all think will happen to this captain?


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## TOBO (Oct 3, 2007)

Good on FWC!


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

flex said:


> what do you all think will happen to this captain?


Not real sure about the captain but FWC is gonna have a hell of a fish fry.....

Honestly from what I have seen "from working in the courtroom" commercial violators usually get $500-$1000 fines and 6months probation. Probation is terminated when fines are paid... Well worth poaching fish IMHO.....


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah,.. No Big Deal.

They'll make more than enough for the fines the week after next when they smuggle in there next 500lbs.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

I bet he will be charged in federal court. If you notice there was a NOAA guy there.


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## Illinijeff (Mar 28, 2011)

What does the FWC do with the seized fish?


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

I volunteer to help dispose of the evidence.


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

Illinijeff said:


> What does the FWC do with the seized fish?


They cook the fish, or give it to loaves and fishes/ waterfront mission.

I know it hurts y'all's feelings, but the crime is no stiffer on the federal side of the coin, not to mention they would have to prove that the crime happened in federal jurisdiction. We all know that they were in federal waters at some point, but if there is no evidence of it then it didn't happen. This case will be infront of a misdemeanor judge by the time it makes it to court it will be a small fine. I have seen it several times. If it was infront of Ackerman when he was the judge he would giggle and say better luck on your next trip, with no fine or penalty. I always heard that they would nail you to the wall, take your boat, and your first born for a short redfish... They are lenient to the point that it is just about worth it. I have seen one guy that the state attorney said that it was his third offense for having a snapper out of season. The got got fined $50


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## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

I know this is a different state but I watched a guy get his boat confiscated about 2 years ago at the Little Lagoon ramp in OB for having a gill net with no license. All he had in it was a couple of white trout and some croakers. I asked the GW how he would go about getting his boat back and he said it was up to the judge.


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## snookman (Aug 7, 2010)

I have seen that too. these two guys were poaching snook and under cover FMP officer walked up and told them it was illegal. they turned around and said they put a hole in the lip so they could tell the dumbass ( FMP) it was caught on a pole. they were quickly arrested and had their truck, boat and trailer hauled off while they went to jail. people were applauding after seeing this..


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

"Eat what you catch, but only catch what you can eat.

I do not go fishing for the sport of it. I go for food. Catching something just to turn it loose seems kinda silly to me and a big waste of time and money. It would be like trapping a big buck, no reward for the effort. Who cares if you took a pic before you let it go, kinda hard to digest a picture.You want to see pics of fish, get a encyclopedia.
Last edited by drifterfisher; 04-20-2013 at 12:38 AM."


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

^^^ reminds me of a neighbor i used to have from Long Island, NY who moved down here and acted like he was superior to everyone. he would water his lawn everyday, even though you were only allowed once or twice a week. I told him that i got a letter saying they would start fining people for water violations and his response was "they can fine me all they want i'm still gonna water it" ugh.


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## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Fwc*

they can and sometimes will donate fish. However they cannot take the fish home and have a fish fry. So before anyone gets there panties in a knot understand they have no legal rights to the fish which is at that point evidence it would be like a regualar cop sezeing a car in a drug bust and taking it home and giving to his wife.


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> They cook the fish, or give it to loaves and fishes/ waterfront mission.
> 
> I know it hurts y'all's feelings, but the crime is no stiffer on the federal side of the coin, not to mention they would have to prove that the crime happened in federal jurisdiction. We all know that they were in federal waters at some point, but if there is no evidence of it then it didn't happen. This case will be infront of a misdemeanor judge by the time it makes it to court it will be a small fine. I have seen it several times. If it was infront of Ackerman when he was the judge he would giggle and say better luck on your next trip, with no fine or penalty. I always heard that they would nail you to the wall, take your boat, and your first born for a short redfish... They are lenient to the point that it is just about worth it. I have seen one guy that the state attorney said that it was his third offense for having a snapper out of season. The got got fined $50


Seems grossly unfair considering the fines and seizures I have heard of levied on some occasional recreational fisherman for much lesser violations by comparison. But then I have personally seen Federal Magistrates and even Federal District Judges hand out outrageously lenient sentences for offenses that, although nonviolent, were of fairly serious gravity. 

Seems to me that in addition to a heavy financial penalty a commercial operator should have their license permanently yanked for willfully, knowingly, and intentionally bringing in 500 lbs of illegal fish under cover of darkness. But what do I know?


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

AndyS said:


> Seems grossly unfair considering the fines and seizures I have heard of levied on some occasional recreational fisherman for much lesser violations by comparison. But then I have personally seen Federal Magistrates and even Federal District Judges hand out outrageously lenient sentences for offenses that, although nonviolent, were of fairly serious gravity.
> 
> Seems to me that in addition to a heavy financial penalty a commercial operator should have their license permanently yanked for willfully, knowingly, and intentionally bringing in 500 lbs of illegal fish under cover of darkness. But what do I know?


I think they were allowed to have the fish they just weren't allowed to sell it at the time they were selling it. Commercial fisherman are allowed to harvest snapper.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read it.


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

a said:


> "Eat what you catch, but only catch what you can eat.
> 
> I do not go fishing for the sport of it. I go for food. Catching something just to turn it loose seems kinda silly to me and a big waste of time and money. It would be like trapping a big buck, no reward for the effort. Who cares if you took a pic before you let it go, kinda hard to digest a picture.You want to see pics of fish, get a encyclopedia.
> Last edited by drifterfisher; 04-20-2013 at 12:38 AM."


I've been fishing all my life (mostly freshwater) and nowadays I do go fishing primarily for sport. On rare occasion I will bring something (legal) home for the table. Everything else is catch and release & I take pains to try to ensure the fish survival. I see nothing silly or wrong with that.

I sit on the dock & see people every weekend racing their jet-skis up & down the sound as fast as they can heading nowhere in particular and to no apparent purpose other than the enjoyment of it. While I would get bored with that after about the second run (and although they are sometimes _annoying! _to me), I understand it.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Tobiwan said:


> I think they were allowed to have the fish they just weren't allowed to sell it at the time they were selling it. Commercial fisherman are allowed to harvest snapper.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read it.


The rules state you can't offload between 6:00 PM and 6:00 AM to deter this type of activity - the fish were going to be sold on the side so I'm sure he wasn't going to report the poundage towards his quota. So, no - he was not allowed to have those fish.

They need to yank these bozos' permits. It just goes to show that it's ALL about the $$$ with the Red Snapper IFQ Program - the fishery is a distant second.


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

Tom Hilton said:


> The rules state you can't offload between 6:00 PM and 6:00 AM to deter this type of activity - the fish we going to be sold on the side so I'm sure he wasn't going to report the poundage towards his quota. So, no - he was not allowed to have those fish.
> 
> They need to yank these bozos' permits. It just goes to show that it's ALL about the $$$ with the Red Snapper IFQ Program - the fishery is a distant second.


I see thanks for the enlightenment. I hadn't thought about quotas. Definitely underhanded.


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## Contender (Apr 4, 2012)

It could be fed or state, depends on how they are charged, under the assimilated crimes act a state violation can be "turned over" to the feds. If the magistrate wasn't / isn't knowledgeable of the issues and see this as a "poor guy just trying to make a living" then likely the fines will be low. Not as familiar with the state side but would guess it depends on the judge and how s/he views natural resource crimes.

There could be a Lacey Act violation since there was an illegal sale involved, mins on these type violations are high.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

cool, wonder why the FWC was at the dock at 2AM, wonder if they were tipped off at some point?


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

Tom Hilton said:


> The rules state you can't offload between 6:00 PM and 6:00 AM to deter this type of activity - *the fish were going to be sold on the side so I'm sure he wasn't going to report the poundage towards his quota.* So, no - he was not allowed to have those fish.
> 
> They need to yank these bozos' permits. It just goes to show that it's ALL about the $$$ with the Red Snapper IFQ Program - the fishery is a distant second.


it says the captain of the ship admitted that. but what if he had not been honest? would they have been able to prove he had the intention of breaking the law? 

i'm not trying to be a smartass i'm just wondering.. my guess is that FWC got tipped and when they got there read him his rights and then told him straight up they knew what he was gonna do and he probably spit out the truth since he knew he was caught fair and square.


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

with this happening in the light of the sector separation stuff going on right now that guy needs to loose the boat, at the very least he should have a label put on his website and all his advertisement material stating that he willfully broke regulations with the intent to illegally sell the fish. its only fair, if this guy is willing to take the responsibility of being a commercial fisherman he needs to take the responsibility for breaking the rules.


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## d-a (Mar 13, 2010)

flex said:


> it says the captain of the ship admitted that. but what if he had not been honest? would they have been able to prove he had the intention of breaking the law?
> 
> i'm not trying to be a smartass i'm just wondering.. my guess is that FWC got tipped and when they got there read him his rights and then told him straight up they knew what he was gonna do and he probably spit out the truth since he knew he was caught fair and square.


He was still doing an illegal act whether he admitted it or not. 

d-a


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

Outside9 said:


> I bet he will be charged in federal court. If you notice there was a NOAA guy there.


It should be a federal law violation since they makeus follow a federal season. But do the commercial snapper boats have to follow the same crappy season that us recreational weekend warriors have to follow.
Because it just seems a little strange that an entire country can have its red snapper supplies in a month of fishing


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## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

*Hmm?*

Anyone ever wonder what brought ALL those govt. gentlemen to a dock at 2AM in the morning? Was there a snitch? A sting? A fish market that was being audited? *All those govt folks *did not show up without some kind of tip.

1) Now, I wonder how many times this is this playing out? 
*2)* Was there any mention in proceeding three pages as to the size of the vessel? 
*3)* Was it a trailer-able vessel? 
*4)* This vessel has an IFQ. Does it also have a Charter boat license/permit?
*5) *Was there a licensed captain on board?
*6)* Was the IFQ owner on board the vessel?
*7)* Was this permit being leased?
*8)* Was this seized amount the total of boat's catch, or just a part that was off loaded at 2AM? 

Anyone on here know *any of these facts**?* These are all issues that should be made public. I totally agree with Hilton, that permit, IFQ, charter permit, capt license, etc, regardless of who "owns" the IFQ, *all of these* should be yanked.

That 600lbs of RS produces around $2000-3000. If that IFQ was being leased, that 600lbs could easily pay for the "lease amount" from that particular catch.


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

They don't allow night time offloads because it is the most likely time to be selling illegal/undersize fish and it's harder to enforce if you can't see. Im sure they got a tip to know to check there. Good for whoever tipped them off, it's that kind of stuff that gives the commercial fishing industry a bad name; besides the ones trying to own the waters and restrict recreational use.


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## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

*startzc*

No doubt. 

Still have several questions about "Mary Joyce" and crew.


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## BBreeze (Aug 26, 2009)

Why is this not all over the news. Someone should bring it to their attention.


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## straycat (Jul 26, 2008)

Do not get it. Maybe I am stupid.


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## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

*Well it's*

Well, it's a week later from my last post and still no one knows a darn thing about this fishing boat caught in wee hours of the morning. Guess that's all there is to know........... I suspect NOT!


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Could be a scare tactic.


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## jbs_bama (May 24, 2010)

I know these commercial guys do this for a living, but I think it's BS that they can catch fish any time of the year and the recreational guy can only keep a limited amount during a certain time of year. If they're going to make certain quotas it should be fair across the board. JMO


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

Captdroot said:


> Well, it's a week later from my last post and still no one knows a darn thing about this fishing boat caught in wee hours of the morning. Guess that's all there is to know........... I suspect NOT!


well I started the thread and I merely copied what I saw off the FWC website. it is public information so you are welcome to call them up yourself and ask for more information.. you will probably get a call back from someone there. 

i'm also curious what will end up happening here


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

jbs_bama said:


> I know these commercial guys do this for a living, but I think it's BS that they can catch fish any time of the year and the recreational guy can only keep a limited amount during a certain time of year. If they're going to make certain quotas it should be fair across the board. JMO


life isn't fair my friend. no matter how much anyone tries there will never be fairness 'across the board' with anything.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

jbs_bama said:


> I know these commercial guys do this for a living, but I think it's BS that they can catch fish any time of the year and the recreational guy can only keep a limited amount during a certain time of year. If they're going to make certain quotas it should be fair across the board. JMO


Before you jump to conclusions learn the facts. Yes commercial can catch any time of the year. BUT they have a quota of how much they are allowed each year. When that quota is reached they are done for the year. And if you think they can just not report the catch, forget that thought each boat has a trackin device and they must call Fmp every time they move the boat on a trip. Then call before returning for an inspection of catch. I would bet most commercial boats have less days fishing than recreational.


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## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

flex said:


> well I started the thread and I merely copied what I saw off the FWC website. it is public information so you are welcome to call them up yourself and ask for more information.. you will probably get a call back from someone there.
> 
> _*i'm also curious what will end up happening here*_


It's not just asking "what will end up happening". It's who was on board, perhaps a licensed capt? Was the vessel also used as a charter boat? Who's name is on the IFQ? was it leased? Was this just part of a catch? These are all very possible.

All these help paint a picture. Sealark is correct, registered commercial boats are closely monitored with a tracking device. There are lots of facts about this matter that have not been disclosed. Someone who is computer savvy could possibly learn *what the whole story is.* A few of us graduated HS before there was a pocket calculator of any kind. We are not cyberspace blood hounds.


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

^^^ here is what you should do.. if you google "FWC weekly reports" you will find the weekly reports and be able to download them. from there you can call them up and refer to the incident and ask for more information. what will then likely happen is the LT who was involved in the bust will call you back probably within a week and you can find out more info through him and go from there. i'm sure the case is still being investigated but atleast you can get more info about all that went down 

let us all know what you can dig up.

i made it easy for you i pulled up the link http://myfwc.com/media/2527530/Mar29-Apr4.pdf << click that then go from there.


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## fishFEEDER9697 (Sep 30, 2007)

Why don't one of you ninnies just go down there and politely ask someone who might know? Mary Joyce just unloaded again this morning. The captain ought to be around until this weather passes.:whistling:


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## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

*As far as ninnies*

Some of us live rather far away. Sounds like "grannies beach" is much closer by. Is the same gentlemen still running the boat?


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## fishFEEDER9697 (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, shame on that fellow. I've got no skin in the game. Sure, I know some details and have my own opinions and hypothesis about it, but you're not gonna bait me into discussing a case on a public forum when federal charges are pending.


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## Hydro Therapy 2 (Sep 11, 2008)

O o


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