# NOAA just dont know when to quit (Red Grouper reduction)



## slayerextreme (Jan 10, 2012)

there will eventually have to be a real show down between the Gulf States and the Feds...not all this "political" posturing but a true sho-nuff visit to the woodshed type thing.....it will be the only answer to this lunacy 

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishery_b...-031_2014_red_grouper_bag_limit_reduction.pdf


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## JDM (Oct 1, 2007)

*grouper*

agree and the problem is the recreational fisherman seem to have no recourse. NOAA says this is the way it is and thats that.

The lawsuit by the commercial fisherman is going to completely shut down the recreational fishing for all of us (which i am sure that was their mission). The judge should have seen that the population of fish data being reported and the volume of recreational harvest is not scientific. Now whats going to happen is people will just start cheating and take thier chances. Being honest and playing by the rules got us nothing but more restrictions.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

slayerextreme said:


> there will eventually have to be a real show down between the Gulf States and the Feds...not all this "political" posturing but a true sho-nuff visit to the woodshed type thing.....it will be the only answer to this lunacy
> 
> http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishery_b...-031_2014_red_grouper_bag_limit_reduction.pdf


Idle threats on message boards and in public meetings won't get you (you=the "you in general"=recreational fishermen) anywhere. There is a point at which, and this is just my opinion, the bluster embarrasses me.


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## slayerextreme (Jan 10, 2012)

aroundthehorn said:


> Idle threats on message boards and in public meetings won't get you (you=the "you in general"=recreational fishermen) anywhere. There is a point at which, and this is just my opinion, the bluster embarrasses me.


So lets hear your opinion on what its going to take for the Rec fisherman to get back what is rightfully theirs....since the passive(lets hope they understand) route has pretty much been a complete failure......since you took the time to criticize my approach, you may want to offer another point of view or opinion


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

slayerextreme said:


> So lets hear your opinion on what its going to take for the Rec fisherman to get back what is rightfully theirs....since the passive(lets hope they understand) route has pretty much been a complete failure......since you took the time to criticize my approach, you may want to offer another point of view or opinion


Go to a public meeting and threaten people and see where it gets you. Yeah, people in charge do read forums like this, and I and others have seen embarrassing behavior at meetings.

Did you know that there are a couple of people who are paid to post here (hint, not the people you are thinking of)? Think about that for a minute or two.


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## Loruna (Aug 3, 2013)

aroundthehorn said:


> Did you know that there are a couple of people who are paid to post here


So that explains why the Florida Bikini thread has over 600 posts.
Lucky bastards.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Loruna said:


> So that explains why the Florida Bikini thread has over 600 posts.
> Lucky bastards.


Nah, I'm actually being serious.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> Go to a public meeting and threaten people and see where it gets you. Yeah, people in charge do read forums like this, and I and others have seen embarrassing behavior at meetings.
> 
> Did you know that there are a couple of people who are paid to post here (hint, not the people you are thinking of)? Think about that for a minute or two.


The guy asked you what YOU would do, yet, you offer nothing except vague accusations and innuendo, of which has been in ample supply on the fisheries issues of late. Not much on the specifics and a whole lot on vague accusations won't get us anywhere either Amigo.


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## JDM (Oct 1, 2007)

*paid people*

i must be a total dumass because i am not sure what you mean by people being paid to post and not who we are thinking of...I would like to know please if there are really people being paid to post here and why

thank you


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

They are doing the same for greater amberjack, an in season adjustment, stating that the TAc will be reduced to over harvest!!


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Tom Hilton said:


> The guy asked you what YOU would do, yet, you offer nothing except vague accusations and innuendo, of which has been in ample supply on the fisheries issues of late. Not much on the specifics and a whole lot on vague accusations won't get us anywhere either Amigo.


Stick to posting about red snapper, Mr. Hilton.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Vague accusations, innuendo, and now directives about what I can and cannot post about.

Totally and utterly useless input aroundthehorn - THAT is something to be embarrased about.


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

Tom Hilton said:


> The guy asked you what YOU would do, yet, you offer nothing except vague accusations and innuendo, of which has been in ample supply on the fisheries issues of late. Not much on the specifics and a whole lot on vague accusations won't get us anywhere either Amigo.




Tom, that's because he (aroundthehorn) is in a conundrum!

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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Tom Hilton said:


> Vague accusations, innuendo, and now directives about what I can and cannot post about.
> 
> Totally and utterly useless input aroundthehorn - THAT is something to be embarrased about.


I'm not accusing you of anything, Mr. Hilton. Do and post whatever you want. I'm also happy that you are so interested in fishing in the Panhandle of Florida.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

aroundthehorn said:


> I'm not accusing you of anything, Mr. Hilton. Do and post whatever you want. I'm also happy that you are so interested in fishing in the Panhandle of Florida.



Well... We are waiting on your answer as to what YOU would do in order to make a difference...


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> Well... We are waiting on your answer as to what YOU would do in order to make a difference...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pretty clear to me: don't go to meetings with threats or post online threats to people. Is that clear enough? Or do I need to hash it out some more? People who do things like that sound like idiots and it is worse to hear in person. Such behavior is embarrassing to me as a recreational fisherman. That's just my point of view and I understand that people don't agree with it.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I would like to hear some recommendations on what recreational guys can do in the current situation?



I could use my vacation time to travel around to attend all the meetings.
I could stand up and shout like a tin-foil hatted wacko at a city council meeting until I was dragged out by security.
I could donate all my money to political action committees that might win some political concessions from some bureaucrat with an inkling of concern for recreational fishing.
We could all pool our resources and buy us a big ship and start harassing commercial fishermen on the open seas like those whale war nut-jobs.
Come on the PFF, THT, TooCoolFishing.com, etc and bitch endlessly about the unfairness of it all.
stand on the end of the pier and piss straight into the wind.
what else ???????


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## GAjohn (May 23, 2012)

Surely there are independent marine biologists and scientists, i.e. NOT on NOAA's payroll, that have data to disprove the claims by NOAA on the overfishing of species right? Now I live in mainland Alabama so I'm not nearly as educated on the subject as everyone here, but from what I gather, it seems like money and politics are the driving forces behind these regulations. Wouldn't correct and unbiased research provide the relevant data to actually make a claim against them?


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

We have formed a new recreational fishing organization; The National Association of Recreational Anglers 

https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers

The National Association of Recreational Anglers’ mission is to advocate for the rights of recreational anglers in the legislative and regulatory process, 

*Mission Statement*
The National Association of Recreational Anglers’ mission is to advocate for the rights of recreational anglers in the legislative and regulatory process, to educate anglers in fishery management issues and insure that management and legislative decisions are based on sound data.

*Objectives*
The National Association of Recreational Anglers’ objectives are; 
• To involve as many anglers as possible in the fishery management process by engaging them in outreach, education, and advocacy.
• To preserve the traditions of recreational fishing for future generations by ensuring that sound management practices are implemented; based on the reality of the fishery, for the sustainability of the fisheries for all of its users.
• To educate the fishing and non-fishing public to the issues and concerns involved in the fishery management process.

We will be taking steps to take action on these issues in the very near future.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Is that affiliated with the RFA? Just in the interests of full disclosure.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

They will not quit till they meet their own mission statement. This is from their own mouths.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ocs/documents/Vision_2020_FINAL-1.pdf


*Preferred State in 2020: Many recreational species have limited population growth rates 
and are too valuable to be caught only once. By 2020, catch and release fishing is 
emphasized and accounted for in specific species assessments.*


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

If "independent and unbiased" data actually supported NOAA's position that the fishery is being over exploited, would the NARA push for stricter limits on commercial and recreational fishing such as the implementation of a stamp or similar system of accountability (kind of like Ducks Unlimited)?


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Play'N Hooky said:


> I would like to hear some recommendations on what recreational guys can do in the current situation?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You got my attention when you said "pool all our resources..." but I would've said it like this...

...pool all our resources and buy a huge boat and get a commercial license, hire ourselves to work the boat and open up a fish market and sell ONLY to ourselves (price determined by how many you caught. Catch more, pay less)

Now, we all get to go fishing AND eat our fish. Who's in?

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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

I would like to see the state ban commercial fishing, at least until populations are no longer "over fished".


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

Just figure me a ROI, I'm game!

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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

What if no commercial licenses were issued in 2015? 

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## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

aroundthehorn said:


> Go to a public meeting and threaten people and see where it gets you. Yeah, people in charge do read forums like this, and I and others have seen embarrassing behavior at meetings.
> 
> Did you know that there are a couple of people who are paid to post here (hint, not the people you are thinking of)? Think about that for a minute or two.


With as many post as you have I would suspect you fit in that category. I will add that what you call embarrassing I might refer to as passion, remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so maybe we all, me included, should begin to show some passion by squeaking at some of these meetings. Your sit back and do nothing attitude is what leads me to believe you either do not truly love the sport or are paid to search and post.


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## ironman (Oct 18, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> Pretty clear to me: don't go to meetings with threats or post online threats to people. Is that clear enough? Or do I need to hash it out some more? People who do things like that sound like idiots and it is worse to hear in person. Such behavior is embarrassing to me as a recreational fisherman. That's just my point of view and I understand that people don't agree with it.


 I'm still waiting on him to tell us what he would do. So far all I have heard is what he wouldn't do and tell you how wrong you are.


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't think things will get better until a system is set in place to record rec catches... until then, the people making guesses are the people setting limits and the people receiving money (IMO)


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Wow, Aroundthehorn, you sure swing a big pot stirring paddle. For a person so opinionated about other peoples opinions, you certainly have many opinions about nothing certain.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

aroundthehorn said:


> Pretty clear to me: don't go to meetings with threats or post online threats to people. Is that clear enough? Or do I need to hash it out some more? People who do things like that sound like idiots and it is worse to hear in person. Such behavior is embarrassing to me as a recreational fisherman. That's just my point of view and I understand that people don't agree with it.



Lolzzzz about as clear as Mobile Bay. You have successfully offered us nothing you would do, only things you wouldn't do. Taking no action is giving up, and giving in. 


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

aroundthehorn said:


> Idle threats on message boards and in public meetings won't get you (you=the "you in general"=recreational fishermen) anywhere. There is a point at which, and this is just my opinion, the bluster embarrasses me.


Yet another fine, positive post from you, well done again, Sir.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Tom Hilton, is this recreational fishing association you speak of worth donating money to?


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

My thoughts on ATH-


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Lyin Too said:


> Yet another fine, positive post from you, well done again, Sir.


The truth hurts sometimes doesn't it?


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

tbaxl said:


> With as many post as you have I would suspect you fit in that category. I will add that what you call embarrassing I might refer to as passion, remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so maybe we all, me included, should begin to show some passion by squeaking at some of these meetings. Your sit back and do nothing attitude is what leads me to believe you either do not truly love the sport or are paid to search and post.


I go to meetings. You don't?


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

Well My 2 is this The Meetings don't do any good Been to a Few of them and It was a Joke It's just a way for the People In Charge CRABASS & TURPINTINE to say hey we gave you all a Chance too speak your Mind even when they Already Knew what they were going too do, for the Rec Fisherman No Matter what we do we are Screwed, In Fact everyone is screwed, I have thought about so many ways to speak our Minds , Boycott seafood markets, Seafood Places, stop buying Fishing Licences ,Boat Reg, Etc ,Etc, But someone will suffer and guess who will end up Paying for them to Receive Government Help, Us the Tax Payer, and the only Ones that will spend a Good night's Sleep our the Idiots that our making these Laws!! and Making a Big Pay check , It's Just come too the Point It is a No win what ever we Do, Let the commercial guys Rape the resources and when they do I will have NO PITTY FOR THEM OR THEIR FAMILY!!! They did it in Their way!!! Sorry But Just Tired of Stupid BS!!! The Government F(*^&<s up enough as It is They Have No Reason to be in the Fishing Business !!!!!!


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## Deeplines (Sep 28, 2007)

I went to ONE meeting. I saw it was a waste of time. ( Back when we went from 4 to 2 snapper.) I didn't have to go to college for 8 years to see what it was all about. 

I just say FU*K UM. Thier gonna do what ever the money says, unless it is brought to NATIONAL attention. You can't do that without the media. All these little meeting between 1000 or so means jack squat. 

Now if you get 100 million weighing in from the media well, these cheats seem to follow the line a little better. 

Good luck guys is all I can say. I really don't give a shit. I'll keep my fish if I want to. Pay the man if I get caught or just go to JOE patties.


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## slayerextreme (Jan 10, 2012)

aroundthehorn said:


> Pretty clear to me: don't go to meetings with threats or post online threats to people. Is that clear enough? Or do I need to hash it out some more? People who do things like that sound like idiots and it is worse to hear in person. Such behavior is embarrassing to me as a recreational fisherman. That's just my point of view and I understand that people don't agree with it.


Dont really know how to repond....I don't know if I'm dealing with an adolescent child or a middle-aged person that is just using a keyboard to fill some void in their life....

I Sir, sold all my bass fishing stuff...rods, reels, go fast boat, I quit tournament fishing because my roots were always in saltwater fishing, it was passed along to me by my father, and many times I was fortunate to fish with not only my father but his father also....

I buy a new boat, all new tackle, rods, reels, new electronics...I mean everything so I could start passing along the love of this sport to my son...and since 2007(for me) it has only got more restrictive for me and my family...we dont live near the coast and have to travel there as often as finances and schedules allow....and to have OUR fisheries reduced to the point that they are but abolished is just crazy...and the mere fact that a person that has a commercial license is able to fish for and PROFIT from a species that is off limits to me as a private citizen is just so far past wrong that it is indefensible....

We as a nation have allowed politics to invade something as simple as managing a fishery, and once that profits and lobbying for those profits entered the arena it has just gotten worse for me as a rec fisherman....

now I dont know about your personal vendettas against people on this board, and I really dont care....I dont believe in bigfoot or UFO's and I damn sure dont believe in having a mismanaged government agencies being in charge of all aspects of my life.....

a little bit of american history...we have the RIGHT to stand up to an oppressive government....actually its an OBLIGATION....

You dont know me, and I dont know you, and I would respectfully ask that you skip over any of my future posts without responding and I will do likewise....you just strike me as the type that attempts to use your broad ranging wisdom to make under handed remarks, hoping to create a controversy......you may be well respected here, but your agenda makes you appear weak and inept..... the problem with creating controversy and strife is that there will always be people that step forward and call you bluff....

this started off over some anger directed towards a group that continues to take away what few rights I still have with regards to saltwater fishing...so please allow me my rant....and I will stay out of any feuds that you have with any other forum members

Respectfully

Herb Trace
Slayerextreme


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Herb.

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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

slayerextreme said:


> Dont really know how to repond....I don't know if I'm dealing with an adolescent child or a middle-aged person that is just using a keyboard to fill some void in their life....
> 
> I Sir, sold all my bass fishing stuff...rods, reels, go fast boat, I quit tournament fishing because my roots were always in saltwater fishing, it was passed along to me by my father, and many times I was fortunate to fish with not only my father but his father also....
> 
> ...


Thank you for making my point.


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## bukshot01 (Oct 2, 2007)

slayerextreme said:


> and you may be well respected here


You couldn't be further from the truth. His meaningless posts accomplish nothing. It seems as though he types just to hear himself typing. The day he finds another hobby is the day this forum is a better place.

This is this is the consensus among many forum members.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

bukshot01 said:


> You couldn't be further from the truth. His meaningless posts accomplish nothing. It seems as though he types just to hear himself typing. The day he finds another hobby is the day this forum is a better place.
> 
> This is this is the consensus among many forum members.


Meaningful.


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## bukshot01 (Oct 2, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> Meaningful.


6,077... completely meaningless posts. Proud, real proud. 

Take your nonsense somewhere else.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

aroundthehorn said:


> Meaningful.


Arondthehorn, don't you know that if your not against everything, and running around like a chicken with your head cut off, agreeing with the masses of uneducated fools then you sir are a fool on this fishing forum.


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## fishnhuntguy (Feb 8, 2012)

*here's a thought*

The sportsfishers pick a species be it grouper, snapper, cobia, amberjack, and lobby for it to made a "gamefish". Manage it like the redfish . does that sound like it makes sense?


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

Sad very Sad the PFF has Come too This!!!


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Arondthehorn, don't you know that if your not against everything, and running around like a chicken with your head cut off, agreeing with the masses of uneducated fools then you sir are a fool on this fishing forum.


I thought I had an OK point. Others disagree and that's fine. Stuff people say in meetings and post online is always noted. 

Is that something that is really hard to figure out? You've been called everything aside from a child molester on here by one or two people.

I will say, too, that all of the people I have met from the forum have been nice folks. Bring it on, haters.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Or, you could go on other forums under the alias Tin Foil Hat and spew insults and garbage thinking you are immune from detection.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> I thought I had an OK point. Others disagree and that's fine. Stuff people say in meetings and post online is always noted.
> 
> Is that something that is really hard to figure out? You've been called everything aside from a child molester on here by one or two people.
> 
> I will say, too, that all of the people I have met from the forum have been nice folks. Bring it on, haters.


 There is a reason why you two take up for one another. There is a common thread. I bet I know what it is.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Tom Hilton said:


> Or, you could go on other forums under the alias Tin Foil Hat and spew insults and garbage thinking you are immune from detection.


Tin Foil Hat, was created to honor your crazy ass, can't believe it took months to figure out who it was. My name, e-mail, and website have always been posted on this site. Funny reading all the chickens with there heads off running around. I've seen this coming for years and adjusted my business accordingly.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

For a thread about the reduction of the Red Grouper daily bag limit and federal water closure date, there sure hasn't been much said about the OP topic.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Tin Foil Hat, was created to honor your crazy ass, can't believe it took months to figure out who it was. My name, e-mail, and website have always been posted on this site. Funny reading all the chickens with there heads off running around. I've seen this coming for years and adjusted my business accordingly.


Yeah, very creative - just shows how you are just a dumbass - certainly not a leader.

BTW, here's a PM from one of Hickman's former buddies who had the sense to bail when he saw what Hickman was proposing;

"tom ask dickman oops hickman this ? and keep asking it *DID YOU SCOTT HICKMAN HEAD OF THE SOS IN A PRIVATE ROOM CONVERSATION TELL CERTAIN CHARTER VESSEL CAPTAINS THAT YOU ARE CLOSE WITH TO "STICK WITH ME ON THIS SOS PROGRAM" AND I WILL GET "US" A PILOT PROGRAM FOR "US" TO GO CATCH SNAPPER ON PAID CHARTERS WHILE EVERYONE ELSE SITS AT THE DOCK ASK THAT mf THAT!!!!!!*

Hmmmm....Hickman holding a private meeting proposing to push a program that screws everyone else in the process - *INCLUDING OTHER CHARTER CAPTAINS.* I think that would fit under the category of a conspiracy, don't you Tin Foil Hat? Especially poignant since he is referencing the SOS Plan - that was years ago, yet here we are....

BTW, this guy is willing to testify in court regarding what he saw and heard that night. Looks like there is dissension in the ranks since there are plenty of charter captains out there who won't stoop to the level you and Hickman have Tom Ard to get your piece of the pie that you have been promised by EDF. 

You have also tried to claim that your Alabama Charterboat EFP had nothing to do with EDF but that turned out to be an enormous *LIE*, now didn't it Ard?

Perhaps you will need to adjust your business accordingly once again pard.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Tom Hilton said:


> Yeah, very creative - just shows how you are just a dumbass - certainly not a leader.
> 
> BTW, here's a PM from one of Hickman's former buddies who had the sense to bail when he saw what Hickman was proposing;
> 
> ...


YOU GIGGLE ME !! My business is just fine. Since you live in Texas why don't your coward ass go tell Hickmon that? You scared of the little guy?


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Nope.

How about you tell me to my face that I'm a coward?


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Really? 
Any wonder why the Feds don't take us seriously?


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

It makes me sad to see sportsmen with many common goals and a vast amount of valuable experience at each other's throats. Seems like all this energy could be used for some constructive purpose.

I feel luckily to live in the Northern Gulf, one of the most fertile areas for red snapper. Unfortunately many areas in the Gulf have very few red snapper. Today the red snapper fishery in the Gulf is managed as a single unit. So the bag limits and seasons are the same here as they are in less fertile areas. This management method seems to create confusion and mistrust among sportsmen in our area because we encounter so many red snapper. However, few sportsmen in Tampa would argue that the red snapper population is in trouble. 

Perhaps managing red snapper in smaller regions would reduce the confusion, perhaps not. If the red snapper stock across the entire Gulf is to rebuild itself, those snapper eggs have to come from somewhere. Sadly, one day soon, the Northern Gulf may be the last refuge of the red snapper. Shall we work together to rebuild the population, or will we fight over who gets to kill the last one?


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Regional Management was a topic of discussion at the last meeting I attended. I grew up in Clearwater where we rarely caught large numbers of RS unless we ran 60-100 miles. Granted that was well over 20 years ago.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I think it is pretty clear that the writing's on the wall with respect to recreational fishing and reef fish in particular. The big money's pushing for tighter regulation and backing it up with research (funded by them) that supports their position. All we are doing is running around with our rods in our hands bickering and fantasizing about how we are going to make the big bad feds go away. That ain't gonna happen. 

The guys that make their living from fishing are willing to accept an accountability system while the guys that do it as a hobby in-fight and reminisce about the good ol' days (that's before GPS, color LCD bottom machines, Bass Pro Shop, 4-cycle marine outboards, etc) when you could go out and practically sink your boat with snapper. 

For us to have any credibility we have to have hard data to back our position and that means funding research and accepting some method of accountability.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

WhackUmStackUm said:


> It makes me sad to see sportsmen with many common goals and a vast amount of valuable experience at each other's throats.


Those 2 have no common goals...

One is a pawn for a few to make millions, one is for recreational fisherman's rights.


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

Hey Play'n hooky

I think it is pretty clear that the writing's on the wall with respect to recreational fishing and reef fish in particular. The big money's pushing for tighter regulation and backing it up with research (funded by them) that supports their position. All we are doing is running around with our rods in our hands bickering and fantasizing about how we are going to make the big bad feds go away. That ain't gonna happen. 

The guys that make their living from fishing are willing to accept an accountability system while the guys that do it as a hobby in-fight and reminisce about the good ol' days (that's before GPS, color LCD bottom machines, Bass Pro Shop, 4-cycle marine outboards, etc) when you could go out and practically sink your boat with snapper. 

For us to have any credibility we have to have hard data to back our position and that means funding research and accepting some method of accountability. 

Now I understand what you were saying about the difference between the state managing the resources vs the federal government managing the resources...you know "if you were going to spend a day at the beach would you go to pensacola beach/chicken bone beach or Ft Pickens/National Seashore".


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I don't think I'm being inconsistent here. 

We all seem to be going on the assumption that ARS are an abundant resource that could withstand unlimited exploitation. NOAA, the federal agency responsible for managing the resource, say's it isn't and backs it up with data, biased and unscientific as it may be. What do we have to refute that data?

What if NOAA's right? The State of Florida couldn't care less if red snapper go extinct as long as the last one was caught in FL state waters by a Florida licensed fisherman with a tank full of gas bought at a FL Marina. Likewise for AL, MS, LA and TX. 

The only way to prove NOAA right or wrong is to provide funding for research that doesn't have a commercial slant to it and get some politicians that can use that to carry our fight to the federal level. If the resource is under exploited then get the feds to back off and leave recreational fishing up to the states. If it is over exploited than pressure them to tighten the grip on commercial harvest across the board.


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

Play'N Hooky

I think your words speak volume!!!!!!!!!:no:


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## SHO-NUFF (May 30, 2011)

Landings data for 2013 indicate that the red grouper 
recreational annual catch limit of 1,900,000 pounds
was exceeded by 492,113 pounds.

Where do these numbers come from? 
So they know down to the friggin 113 pounds how many red grouper recreational fisherman caught last year??
My ignorant ass is missing something here folks... Please enlighten me how this data is generated.:thumbdown:


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

captwesrozier said:


> Play'N Hooky
> 
> I think your words speak volume!!!!!!!!!:no:



As do yours...



captwesrozier said:


> When I was asked to attend a very small meeting with a couple of the higher ups with the Florida CCA I asked were you here to support the fisherman or the fish? The answer was the fish. He went on to say if it meant stopping me from fishing that the CCA would support not allowing me to fish. That is when I said I would no longer support them.


"_Screw the fish! As long as I'm given the chance to catch the last one, who cares if the fishery collapses_." Paraphrasing of course..


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

SHO-NUFF said:


> Landings data for 2013 indicate that the red grouper
> recreational annual catch limit of 1,900,000 pounds
> was exceeded by 492,113 pounds.
> 
> ...



It's called MRIP. To paraphrase, they use dock side landings and make random calls to land phone lines in coastal counties, plug that junk into a computer program and boom, you overfished the TAC.....

https://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/recreational-fisheries/program-overview/whats-new-mrip-story/index


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

Every time those suckers ask/call me a I tell them I couldn't get away from them, what ever them were, to catch something that was legal.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

We need a easy system for accountability of the recreational catch for data, knowing what is really caught to help maintain sustainable fisheries and to keep alive the tradition of recreational fishing. The big problem that I foresee is the tinfoil hatters, conspiracy theorists, supremacists and the anti government people. I can just see those groups of people ruining it for everyone by not participating or cooperating. We have plenty of naysayers that come up with a what if no matter what is proposed, what makes it crazy is that it will benefit them and they will do their utmost to kill it all. Like venting fish, I'd rather vent and have a 25 - 50 % mortality rate rather than a 100% mortality rate and they naysayers won that one. So now we will have a lot of floating fish. I still vent, much better than a knife poke to the stomach.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

It's kinda like when Texas mandated that you wear your seatbelt a while back - I felt it was a violation of my personal privacy and resisted. I got a ticket one day by DPS and from then on decided I should go ahead and wear it. Now, I don't even think about it, and automatically put it on and actually feel better about wearing it than not wearing it. 

If there is to be any viable accountability system put into place, it HAS to be mandatory, and violators fined. It won't take too many fines for people to fall in line with the program, and I believe that once they see that their participation is making a difference, I think you will see a major buy-in from the anglers.


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

I've been following this issue for awhile and have come to the conclusion that recreational fishermen will never find the fairness they seek on this issue through the established bureaucratic regulatory channels consisting of government employees & appointees. 

It will only be through a political solution ... by making Federal, State, and Local elected officials aware of the impact on local economies of draconian fishing restrictions as well as the liberty for _regular_ citizens to go fishing when they can and be able to bring home a few fish for the table - and demanding those elected officials get involved to do something about it.

(You would think coastal Mayors, City Councils, and Chambers of Commerce would have something to say to the State & Feds on this?)


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

AndyS said:


> (You would think coastal Mayors, City Councils, and Chambers of Commerce would have something to say to the State & Feds on this?)


They would with the proper motivation ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$). Right now all that motivation ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) is coming from the commercial interest lobbies. It's not right or fair that it's that way, but the world's not a perfect place.


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## kmerr80 (Oct 28, 2013)

Maybe the Game & Fish Divisions will hire some crooked officers that we could "pay off" and go fishing any time we want-keep whatever-and however many we want, while they turn the other cheek! JUST KIDDING...but hey isn't that what is going on already with the government and this issue???


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

"_Screw the fish! As long as I'm given the chance to catch the last one, who cares if the fishery collapses_." Paraphrasing of course..









Play'N Hooky I think you would catch the last fish:thumbsup:


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## k-p (Oct 7, 2009)

A main part of the problem is the way fisheries are viewed from the top down. NMFS is under NOAA which is under Department of Commerce...so fisheries are viewed as the Government's right to regulate commerce hence why there's so little consideration for the general public's consumption. If fisheries management were placed under the Department of Interior it would most likely be a more measured approach.


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