# Charter fishing, is it even worth it now?



## johnf

Called the boat that I have chartered for June 23 and they said we would not be able to keep any red snapper we catch. The whole point was for going snapper fishing. She said we would still have a great time catching them, but I'm bringing a bunch of kids who don't want to spend $150 to watch their catch swim away. She said there are other species that we would be able to keep, but I don't really want to spend that kind of money to walk away with an empty ice chest. What other species will we be able to keep and will it be worth our while?

I know this has got to be killing their business, but I just can't justify that much money with no fish.


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## The Pitt

You will go home with a stringer full of mingos and porgys. Plenty of other species to be caught.

Red Snapper is overrated anyway.


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## spike

I wouldn't do it, no way.


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## JD7.62

Find a boat that doesnt hold a federal reef permit. As far as I know Florida has not weighed in on its season in state waters. Im would be it would be at least the whole month of June and if that is the case and said boat doesnt hold a federal reef permit they should be able to keep snapper in state waters.

That is if you really want some snapper.

I dont think they are over rated. They are good fighters and mighty fine eating IMO. Are there better eating fish, yeah sure, but not many.


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## panhandleslim

Like 'The Pitt' said, you will leave with some Mingos and White Snapper. Mingos are just as good as Snapper, if not better, just not as big. 

If you want to leave with Snapper, go to the fish market and buy Snapper there, to line the pockets of the commercial 'Catch Share' guys. Then when you get home, write your Congressmen and your President and tell them that the 'little guy', who they claim to champion, is getting crushed, under the boot heel of the giant commercial Lobbys. 

Lesson Learned: Recreational fishermen have to have stronger *Lobbyists* than the commercial fishermen and these groups should be led by boat manufacturers that build fishing boats. Politicians listen to Lobbyists, quicker than they listen to citizens. Simple Fact. All this yakking, among ourselves is just soothing noise to Commercial Lobbists. If you want to change things or shift the balance, get your own Lobbyists with a substantial 'contribution' budget and get in the game. 

Not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying it's REALITY.


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## amarcafina

Cancel, unless you travel out to 190 foot of water all you will catch is RED snapper


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## sniperpeeps

amarcafina said:


> Cancel, unless you travel out to 190 foot of water all you will catch is RED snapper


That's a little unrealistic. Plenty of fish to catch other than snapper not even 3-4 miles off the beach.


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## MrFish

amarcafina said:


> Cancel, unless you travel out to 190 foot of water all you will catch is RED snapper


If they are a good charter captain, they have spots where they can go to catch other fish. I only make it out a few times a year and I can find holes that aren't covered up.


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## badonskybuccaneers

Just to be asking, you refer to "charter" - sounds like you are referring to a _party boat_, not a private charter? I know it can be disappointing not being able to catch and keep those tasty red fish- there are lots of other species that can be caught and kept. 
We caught several snapper our last trip out, and on our next trip out we are going to try some different tactics to target more of the species we can keep (mango, vermillion, etc). I'm sure a lot of the offshore charters are familiar with tactics to produce desired results for their patrons- to target species they CAN keep.
Otherwise- Perhaps a different charter would produce better results for you- perhaps and inshore kayak charter trip- catch fish from a different perspective. Often times you get a little eco- tour included on your trip.
An inshore trip. Redfish, black drum, speckle trout, Sheeps head, bluefish, pompano, and others are caught by on local inshore charter boats. 
A charter on one of the larger boats would get you into the gulf and possibly put you on bull redfish, shark, spanish mackerel, king mackerel, bonito, and other near shore pelagics. 
Do a little research, ask around- I'm sure there are plenty of people that can help you have a memorable trip.
I hope this was helpful for you.


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## Whitie9688

You will still be able to keep mingos, black snapper, white snapper, and mackerels. Red Snapper are only going to be available in state waters at that time. It sucks but it is what it is. How many people were you looking at taking out? You won't find any multi passenger boats with out a federal reef permit so if you are dead set on red snapper look at some of the inshore/nearshore charter services. 

I personally think you will still have a great time on the trip you have booked though. You should catch plenty of great tasty fish and have to reds to take your pictures with on the boat.


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## Brandonshobie

I would still go on a charter there are plenty of other fish to catch to eat during that time of the year.


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## johnf

Should have clarified. We are going out of Gulf Shores because we are staying in Fort Morgan, so Alabama waters are no good either after June 11. The boat is a 65' Bonner that holds 22, but the capt said that they only put 15 on the boat at $100 a head + tip and cleaning. We have 10 people and he asked me to try to fill the other 5 before we came, but he could if we couldn't. Of course that was before this whole Snapper fiasco. I can still get a refund, but good luck finding a charter for 10 people at $100 a pop that isn't a party boat. 

Anyone know anything close to the boarder that could work for us? I can get a refund before 21 days out. They have been really nice so I really don't want to go that route if I don't have to.


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## hjorgan

Lately we've been skipping anything under 150 ft so we can get on the beeliners. I love eating those guys, and they are easy to clean as well. Had some blackened just the other night, over red beans and rice. Ummmmm um!


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## gulfbreezetom

Beeliners are the bees knees, YUM!!


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## tbaxl

johnf said:


> Should have clarified. We are going out of Gulf Shores because we are staying in Fort Morgan, so Alabama waters are no good either after June 11. The boat is a 65' Bonner that holds 22, but the capt said that they only put 15 on the boat at $100 a head + tip and cleaning. We have 10 people and he asked me to try to fill the other 5 before we came, but he could if we couldn't. Of course that was before this whole Snapper fiasco. I can still get a refund, but good luck finding a charter for 10 people at $100 a pop that isn't a party boat.
> 
> Anyone know anything close to the boarder that could work for us? I can get a refund before 21 days out. They have been really nice so I really don't want to go that route if I don't have to.


Honestly i would ask his opinion on the way the snapper fishery has been shut down. If he is part of the CFH group looking to distinguish themselves from the rec crowd at the expense of the rec crowd, drop hem like a hot potato and look elsewhere. If he thinks we need to get our heads together to work out a plan for all involved (probably what he would say) keep it, he probably knows how to put you on some good fish.


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## badonskybuccaneers

johnf said:


> Should have clarified. We are going out of Gulf Shores because we are staying in Fort Morgan, so Alabama waters are no good either after June 11. The boat is a 65' Bonner that holds 22, but the capt said that they only put 15 on the boat at $100 a head + tip and cleaning. We have 10 people and he asked me to try to fill the other 5 before we came, but he could if we couldn't. Of course that was before this whole Snapper fiasco. I can still get a refund, but good luck finding a charter for 10 people at $100 a pop that isn't a party boat.
> 
> Anyone know anything close to the boarder that could work for us? I can get a refund before 21 days out. They have been really nice so I really don't want to go that route if I don't have to.


I would still think that a good charter captain is going to do his best to put you on fish you want to catch and keep (there's lots of other species). It's how they keep business going- happy fishermen.... That being said, it *is* called "fishing" - not "catching". We do pretty good getting fish on our hooks on most trips, but we do get out on days when no matter what we do, we just can't get anything to bite, even if we do see them on the Lowrance. Sounds like a real crowd you'll have there- so that sounds like the best deal (on average) to me for a fishing trip out. Just get the captain on the phone and get his take on the trip and what he might have in mind. 
That's about the best advice I can give, good luck with your endeavor. 
Tight lines -


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## Chapman5011

johnf said:


> Called the boat that I have chartered for June 23 and they said we would not be able to keep any red snapper we catch. The whole point was for going snapper fishing. She said we would still have a great time catching them, but I'm bringing a bunch of kids who don't want to spend $150 to watch their catch swim away. She said there are other species that we would be able to keep, but I don't really want to spend that kind of money to walk away with an empty ice chest. What other species will we be able to keep and will it be worth our while?
> 
> I know this has got to be killing their business, but I just can't justify that much money with no fish.


Snapper are over rated.


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## Chapman5011

Catching fish on June 23 will be warm water, bait everywhere and will be a awesome time to be out offshore. You could catch anything out there. But they will also try to target keep able fish for that purpose. I would go on the trip.


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## Sea-r-cy

For the price, I would think it would be worth going. A standard party boat would cost $60-$80 for the same trip, and you may or may not be on a crowded boat. A true charter boat would cost at least twice your price. Great trip for the kids. They don't care what kind of fish are being caught, as long as it's a steady bite.


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## photofishin

johnf said:


> Should have clarified. We are going out of Gulf Shores because we are staying in Fort Morgan, so Alabama waters are no good either after June 11. The boat is a 65' Bonner that holds 22, but the capt said that they only put 15 on the boat at $100 a head + tip and cleaning. We have 10 people and he asked me to try to fill the other 5 before we came, but he could if we couldn't. Of course that was before this whole Snapper fiasco. I can still get a refund, but good luck finding a charter for 10 people at $100 a pop that isn't a party boat.
> 
> Anyone know anything close to the boarder that could work for us? I can get a refund before 21 days out. They have been really nice so I really don't want to go that route if I don't have to.


 Florida just announced today that they'll have a state water season on red snapper for 52 days starting Memorial Day. Looks like you'll be good to go for up to 9 miles out. I'm heading to Destin the end of June so I was bummed until I saw the news today too.


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## Fielro

If the Captain is worth his salt, you will catch other great tasting species. The younger folks will still enjoy a great fishing experience....


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## Lyin Too

Amberjack, triggerfish, red snapper and gag grouper are all closed that time of year. The only people who will tell you that trip is worth it are the charter boat people themselves.


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## Chapman5011

It all depends. If you just want to catch snapper and nothing else. I would say stay at home. 
But if you want to catch fish, come down and get on a boat. 
Is it worth it, ....yes
Will you catch fish,....yes
Will you have a blast,....yes
Will it be a Life long memory,....yes it will ,..come down and go fishing, I promise you will catch fish no matter who you go with. 
These guys on here, for sure know where the Fish are.

And yes, it will be well worth it to come down and go fishing.

Since you took the time to put it on this forum, you need to pick a boat off this forum. There are plenty on here that would love to make a spot for you to catch red snapper and what ever else they can and will put you on. 

Good luck,
And tight lines to ya.


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## Chapman5011

For the negative people on here, this is for you...........

This is what chief enforcement officer scott Bannon sent me this morning.....



Mr. Chapman,
I understand your concern completely and we are working diligently with the federal government and the other Gulf states to make some change. I have copied our Director's public comment on the situation below my contact information.
In order to clear up some confusion I want to explain to you how to fish in another jurisdiction and return to Alabama legally.
1. You must have a valid license and meet all legal requirements (size, creel etc.) for the jurisdiction you would like to fish. In your case you would need a license for Florida. 
2. You must be legal to possess fish in Alabama so you would need an Alabama saltwater license to possess fish and you would need enough to cover the limit of fish. For example if you had 8 red snapper you would need 4 licensed fishermen unless you had children or senior adults who are exempt. Anyone 65 or older would need to have the free saltwater angler registry.
3. You may only transit in state waters. That includes FL and AL waters. If you cut into federal waters the possession limit is 0 and we will issue citations for that.
4. You may not stop for any other reason than a true mechanical or medical emergency, you may only transit directly to your dock or launch. If your vessel is not in transit you will receive a citation.
I hope this helps clear up any confusion and feel free to contact me any time and also feel free to share this email or my contact information with others. It is our goal to allow people to fish not to eliminate the ability. Good luck and thank you for enjoying the fishing in the Gulf.

Major Scott Bannon
Chief Enforcement Officer
Alabama Marine Resources Division




.

.


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## Chapman5011

Yes you will be able to catch red snapper on a boat on June 23rd and take them home to eat regardless if you are in alabama or florida


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## NoMoSurf

amarcafina said:


> Cancel, unless you travel out to 190 foot of water all you will catch is RED snapper


I call BS! We fish 40-60ft of water all the time. I rarely catch Red Snapper. But then again, I dont fish for them. You can target your species. There are PLENTY of other things to catch out there. And $150 for a charter is CHEAP! If you can get a charter for that, I wouldn't be even SLIGHTLY worried about snapper...


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## 153 Large fish

I'll say this, after buying an offshore boat, licensing it, maintaining it, adding the cool features that charter boats have (cutting edge electronics, I pilot trolling motor etc), buying gas for the boat and the truck to haul it, spending time and money to learn how to safely and effectively go offshore, spending unsaid hours researching gps coordinates and techniques for each wreck and species.... $150 is nothing...especially for the captains knowledge, so you can have fun with limited time being successful on your trip....fishing off three mile bridge is free, but show me the results....


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## Captain Woody Woods

Good reason to go to Venice and fish for tuna and blue marlin and swords


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## knotty buoy

Am I reading the Majors comments correctly:: I can leave orange Beach(Alabama),fish Florida state waters,with the correct requirements,catch snapper,and return to Alabama with them???


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## panhandleslim

knotty buoy said:


> Am I reading the Majors comments correctly:: I can leave orange Beach(Alabama),fish Florida state waters,with the correct requirements,catch snapper,and return to Alabama with them???


Yes. If you have a fishing license from both States, don't stop in Federal Waters and go straight home, without stopping, if you are coming into a state that is closed.


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## JD7.62

Another thing to consider if you dont mind splitting the group up is going on two different smaller boats. Many of the "6-pack" guys will pair up to run a larger group. The smaller boats are leaps and bounds better then the head boats because the Captain is right there with you giving you on on one istruction vs sitting in the wheel house all day.


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## johnf

JD7.62 said:


> Another thing to consider if you dont mind splitting the group up is going on two different smaller boats. Many of the "6-pack" guys will pair up to run a larger group. The smaller boats are leaps and bounds better then the head boats because the Captain is right there with you giving you on on one istruction vs sitting in the wheel house all day.


 They are also 50% more than the boat we're getting and I've got high school kids that are very low budget.


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## JD7.62

Are you sure about that? Most are around 110/hr no matter if you have one person or six. I dont know how long you want to fish but a 6 hour trip on a much faster boat will offer about the same fishing time as an 8 or even 10 hour trip on a slow boat.

So 660 + tip comes out to just $110/person + tip and you will have a chance to keep snapper AND generally have a better experience.


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## johnf

JD7.62 said:


> Are you sure about that? Most are around 110/hr no matter if you have one person or six. I dont know how long you want to fish but a 6 hour trip on a much faster boat will offer about the same fishing time as an 8 or even 10 hour trip on a slow boat.
> 
> So 660 + tip comes out to just $110/person + tip and you will have a chance to keep snapper AND generally have a better experience.


Guess I've been looking in the wrong places. The ones I've seen are over $1K for 6 people. This boat is $100 each. We are all the way in Fort Morgan, so a trip to Pensacola isn't very appealing.


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## AAR

So, you came to a fishing forum to tell us that you can't "justify" going fishing if you don't get an icechest full of red snapper for your trouble and $150?

I'm guessing you're not a deer or turkey hunter. I can't imagine what you would do if you just had to enjoy the outdoors and not fill your freezer every day.


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## Waterfront Devon

There is good fishing here all the time. I agree snapper is over rated as well too. There are better eats and fights all over the place. Just a few days ago I pulled a 40" red drum out of the jetties at pcola pass. 20 minutes before that I got a 4' shark of some kind between the sand bars . If your planning a private charter youll have a blast regardless of snapper. Imo


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## SnapperSlapper

I haven't read the whole thread. But I saw you will be at Fort Morgan. Go with Gary Bryant.


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## MULLET HUNTER

Here's my honest opinion..... I have lived in the area all of my life and yes you can go out and catch red fish, flounder, king, dolphin, and many other species. But not for what you are asking. I have many good friends that are in the charter buisness but you ain't gonna fit 10 people on a pathfinder and all go smash the snapper. And you surely aren't gonna find the the requirements that you have mentioned, money ETC. My advise would be if you want to eat snapper go to joe pattis and buy it... It is way cheaper! Then take your ten people to a catfish farm like wells, or Steve's and catch away! Using my fool proof method I guarantee you to:

A. Cut cost down to well below $300 that's including ham sammiches, and saltines. A bucket of chicken livers, beer, ice, sunscreen, and fruit roll ups.

B: you will still be able to eat some of the great gulf red snapper, as well as those tasty mud sucking catfish "I really do like them"

C: you will do all of the above mentioned and you don't have to be stuck on the boat with your family all freaking day long... You can walk to the other side of the pond, hit the woods for a quick rip. And keep your sanity. You will most definitely create a memory that will last forever, sit in the shade and watch the children have the time of their life while you sit there and enjoy nature and sip on some cheap whiskey... Your wife can get a suntan it's a win- win and you won't be pissing away all that money. 

I got a little caught up in the moment but I'm serious. I have caught every fish I care to in the gulf from billfish to croaker and I personally would rather go buy a swordfish steak from joe pattis and go paddle my board around the coast than I would piss away a whole day on a boat while 3 out of the ten are bitching and pukeing... Save your money dude and skip the trip. The kids will much more enjoy a catfish farm than they would a miserable 8hrs on a head boat... Cheers in whatever you do but your gonna have to toss back most of what you catch in the gulf these days..... We are our own worst enemy...


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## billin

*Mullet hunter*

Very we'll put


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## johnf

AAR said:


> So, you came to a fishing forum to tell us that you can't "justify" going fishing if you don't get an icechest full of red snapper for your trouble and $150?
> 
> I'm guessing you're not a deer or turkey hunter. I can't imagine what you would do if you just had to enjoy the outdoors and not fill your freezer every day.


I am a deer hunter. I hunt on my own land, reload and sharpen my broadheads when they get dull. I'm bringing my students down there, a bunch of back woods kids from Arkansas who aren't made of money and want to get the best bang for their buck. It's call being frugal. These aren't affluent kids from some rich school. They've had to scrape by and do all sorts of fundraisers to even get to come. These kids will likely never come back to the beach for income reasons. I want to do as much as I can with them for as few dollars as possible. 

If it were me and some guys from work it would be a bit different.


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## almo100

In Florida the red snapper season will be open in state waters. Any good captain will put you on them if that is what you want to catch. Depending on how long your trip is, you can go get grouper, kings, mingos and porgies.

It might just be me but when I used to go on charters, I never went on a trip less than 8 hours. Just wasn't worth it.


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## AAR

johnf said:


> I am a deer hunter. I hunt on my own land, reload and sharpen my broadheads when they get dull. I'm bringing my students down there, a bunch of back woods kids from Arkansas who aren't made of money and want to get the best bang for their buck. It's call being frugal. These aren't affluent kids from some rich school. They've had to scrape by and do all sorts of fundraisers to even get to come. These kids will likely never come back to the beach for income reasons. I want to do as much as I can with them for as few dollars as possible.
> 
> If it were me and some guys from work it would be a bit different.


Then take them to a grocery store. Do them a favor and teach them to respect the value of a man's trade. Charter Boat Captains are not just meat butchers. They're providing you with a travel service. The value is in the trip, not in the meat.


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## AAR

almo100 said:


> In Florida the red snapper season will be open in state waters. Any good captain will put you on them if that is what you want to catch. Depending on how long your trip is, you can go get grouper, kings, mingos and porgies.
> 
> It might just be me but when I used to go on charters, I never went on a trip less than 8 hours. Just wasn't worth it.


The Feds have a provision that if you have a Federal Reef License, it doesn't matter whether you are in State or Federal Waters - you are subject to the Federal Statute.


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## AAR

Wait a second..

"_These kids will likely never come back to the beach for income reasons. I want to do as much as I can with them for as few dollars as possible. _"

So, you're going to cancel the trip if they can't fill your coolers with meat, but it is all about the experience and they may never get to come back to the beach?

This doesn't make any sense? So, what is your alternative? Going on a sunset cruise? I don't get it. Are you trying to teach them about fishing, or about how to be frugal?


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## hsiF deR

AAR said:


> Then take them to a grocery store. Do them a favor and teach them to respect the value of a man's trade. Charter Boat Captains are not just meat butchers. They're providing you with a travel service. The value is in the trip, not in the meat.


Not sure I follow the respect thing. There is nothing wrong with expecting to keep fish when you go on a BOTTOM fishing trip. He asked, "Charter Fishing, Is it even worth it now?" Its a reasonable question.


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## AAR

hsiF deR said:


> Not sure I follow the respect thing. There is nothing wrong with expecting to keep fish when you go on a BOTTOM fishing trip. He asked, "Charter Fishing, Is it even worth it now?" Its a reasonable question.


So, tell me this. Is there any value in going on a hunting trip when you don't kill a deer?

What if the question were, "Bass Fishing, Is it even worth it now?"


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## hsiF deR

Personally, it makes no difference to me. I am catch and release about 95% of the time and kill very few deer a year. It is always worth it to me. The money tied up in these hobbies is ridiculous. 

It is a fair question. Whether you want to admit it or not, there is some cost off set by being able to keep fish or kill deer. Years ago, there was significant costs being off set. Now, it is negligible. Bottom fishing is expensive so being able to keep fish helps.

Maybe the question asked should be:
Is charter fishing ridiculously expensive? YES
Is charter fishing worth it(dollars and cents)? NO
Is charter fishing worth it(fun and good times)? YES


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## Catchin Hell

panhandleslim said:


> Yes. If you have a fishing license from both States, don't stop in Federal Waters and go straight home, without stopping, if you are coming into a state that is closed.


If he's taking a charter, he probably doesn't need a fishing license.


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## Magic Mike

AAR said:


> Then take them to a grocery store. Do them a favor and teach them to respect the value of a man's trade. Charter Boat Captains are not just meat butchers. They're providing you with a travel service. The value is in the trip, not in the meat.


Wow... not even sure what to say about this. OP, don't interpret this as the way the majority of our locals act. Come down, fish and show the boys a good time. If you're strapped on cash, do some surf fishing, wade fishing, or try the piers. You could also walk the coastline around neighborhood docks at night and do well. You don't have to pay someone to have a successful fishing trip; you just won't be able to run out to the gulf for Red Snapper (overrated). Either way, I'm sure the "backwoods boys" will enjoy themselves. 

And AAR, you're def not helping captains by telling potential customers to stay home and go to the grocery store


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## almo100

AAR said:


> So, tell me this. Is there any value in going on a hunting trip when you don't kill a deer?
> 
> What if the question were, "Bass Fishing, Is it even worth it now?"


I guess if you hired a guide to get you to the deer and you never even found one to shoot you might say it's not worth it.

Same with bass fishing. There is a level of expectation when you are paying someone for their expertise. Just saying.


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## AAR

almo100 said:


> I guess if you hired a guide to get you to the deer and you never even found one to shoot you might say it's not worth it.
> 
> Same with bass fishing. There is a level of expectation when you are paying someone for their expertise. Just saying.


Have you ever been on a guided deer hunt? They don't guarantee that you will kill a deer. You don't bring home any bass either.

Listen, y'all. I haven't read every post in this thread, so maybe I'm going off half cooked here. Let me see if I've got this right. If I'm not mistaken - this thread is questioning the premise of whether Charter Fishing is still a fair value proposition even though you don't get to keep Red Snapper. Right or Wrong?

So, my answer to that question is that, hell yes. Charter fishing provides, not only fair value but disproportionate value to the consumer vs. the provider. Go walk around the docks and look at these Charter Captains. Now is a great time to buy a Charter Boat, by the way. These guys, who are pretty much every one, masters of their craft. Honest, decent and hard working - just trying to make a good living doing what they are good at - and they're being told that their service is overpriced relative to the value that they are bringing to the supply / demand equilibrium.

That is to say: if I can't leave Pensacola with a cooler full of either Red Snapper, Grouper or Amberjack - I am not satisfied with the service you have provided. It doesn't matter to me that the $900 ($150/hr for 6 hours - I'm guessing because I don't know what this guy's actual parameters are) I am paying you for me and my 5 high schoolers to ride (So - here is the demand side of the equilibrium - $900) in your $100,000 boat (what are payments on $100,000 boat monthly?), that is going to burn $400 in gas for our trip, that costs you $1,000 (?) / month in slip rent, $40 in bait (or either you stayed out last night away from your family to catch the pinfish we are fishing with), maintenance expenses, marketing expenses, deckhand expenses (here is the supply side of the equilibrium), and after all that maybe enough profit for you to pay the rent on your house and feed your family. Plus, let's add in the vermillion snapper, the beeliners (lane snapper), and all the other edible fish that can be caught (is Amberjack in then?).

Guys, let me say this. My dad took me on 1 charter fishing trip when I was a kid. Do you want me to tell you what we caught? Forkifiknow. What I remember is the sound of those huge diesel engines and the sight of the huge wake churning up behind us as that monster vessel came on plane and carried us out onto the open ocean. I remember the sight of the sun coming up over the ocean in the East - the most beautiful sight I often see, for the first time seeing it. I have a lot of memories from that day, but none of them have anything to do with what we put in a cooler and took home to cook.

So, spare me any sense of sorrow I should feel for these young men who saved up their money for you to take them on a fishing trip, that you are about to back out on - because you can't bring home a cooler full of Red Snapper.

Golly.


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## almo100

I think every boat captain prides themselves and markets themselves in a way that they communicate that they are going put you on some fish. Yeah there are no guarantees but I have yet to see one overemphasize that just simply because it could make them look bad.

No one ever saw an empty filet table in a picture on a charter boat Web site and said "Yeah!! That's the guy I want to hire!"

So yes, I get it, there is no guarantee. But if if you are paying someone $200 for you or $2000 for the charter to take some friends, there are some expectations, period. 

And I guarantee you that the guy who pays $2000 and catches nothing does not feel it is worth it and I can say with an absolute certainty they probably won't hire that charter again.

Charter boat captains that don't put you on fish, don't stay in business very long.

It's a valid question if your intent is to catch fish and keep them to eat them. If I wanted to catch and release bottom fish, I'd save the money and go throw in at the tank inside of Bass Pro in Destin. :thumbup:


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## AAR

almo100 said:


> I think every boat captain prides themselves and markets themselves in a way that they communicate that they are going put you on some fish. Yeah there are no guarantees but I have yet to see one overemphasize that just simply because it could make them look bad.
> 
> No one ever saw an empty filet table in a picture on a charter boat Web site and said "Yeah!! That's the guy I want to hire!"
> 
> So yes, I get it, there is no guarantee. But if if you are paying someone $200 for you or $2000 for the charter to take some friends, there are some expectations, period.
> 
> And I guarantee you that the guy who pays $2000 and catches nothing does not feel it is worth it and I can say with an absolute certainty they probably won't hire that charter again.
> 
> Charter boat captains that don't put you on fish, don't stay in business very long.
> 
> It's a valid question if your intent is to catch fish and keep them to eat them. If I wanted to catch and release bottom fish, I'd save the money and go throw in at the tank inside of Bass Pro in Destin. :thumbup:


This is not a question of "putting you on the fish." There will be tablefare fish caught and coolered. They just won't be Red Snapper in the cooler, those are dolphin food. 

Dolphins gotta eat too! :thumbup:


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## almo100

AAR said:


> This is not a question of "putting you on the fish." There will be tablefare fish caught and coolered. They just won't be Red Snapper in the cooler, those are dolphin food.
> 
> Dolphins gotta eat too! :thumbup:


Wonder if FWC will start pulling Flipper over checking for crumbs?


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## johnf

AAR said:


> Then take them to a grocery store. Do them a favor and teach them to respect the value of a man's trade. Charter Boat Captains are not just meat butchers. They're providing you with a travel service. The value is in the trip, not in the meat.


I hate to sound harsh here, but that's just an elitist jerk kind of attitude. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, I don't know. These are good kids from good families. They aren't on welfare, they just don't have the money that the normal clientele have down there. If the value isn't the meat why do those riding along only have to pay $30 on a party barge rather than $100? If you are a capt, you aren't doing yourself any favors by this comment.


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## johnf

AAR said:


> Wait a second..
> 
> "_These kids will likely never come back to the beach for income reasons. I want to do as much as I can with them for as few dollars as possible. _"
> 
> So, you're going to cancel the trip if they can't fill your coolers with meat, but it is all about the experience and they may never get to come back to the beach?
> 
> This doesn't make any sense? So, what is your alternative? Going on a sunset cruise? I don't get it. Are you trying to teach them about fishing, or about how to be frugal?


The kids want to catch snapper. I usually bring my family down there every year or two anyway, so it's not that big of a deal for me. The company apparently has another boat with some sort of permit that allows them to catch and keep snapper 365. I don't know what it is, but they said we could use that boat for our trip at the same price we were quoted on the other boat. This was the company's decision, not mine. I told the kids and they decided to take that boat. So pretty much the whole dilemma is resolved thanks to them. Before they gave us that option we were going to go ahead and keep that boat because it was the only one that I found that could do all of us at once on one boat. I did tell the captain that it was more than I expected and offered to just take the boat we initially booked, but he insisted before I ever even offered it to the kids. 

All of them do fish, just not in the ocean. They wanted to catch red snapper. 

BTW I did a search on transportation charters and came back with almost nothing, but you google fishing charters and you get a lot of hits. :whistling:


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## johnf

Magic Mike said:


> Wow... not even sure what to say about this. OP, don't interpret this as the way the majority of our locals act. Come down, fish and show the boys a good time. If you're strapped on cash, do some surf fishing, wade fishing, or try the piers. You could also walk the coastline around neighborhood docks at night and do well. You don't have to pay someone to have a successful fishing trip; you just won't be able to run out to the gulf for Red Snapper (overrated). Either way, I'm sure the "backwoods boys" will enjoy themselves.
> 
> And AAR, you're def not helping captains by telling potential customers to stay home and go to the grocery store




I've been surf fishing when I come down there for about 5 years now and have talked to and fished with enough locals to know that's not the normal attitude. We already have are surf fishing stuff well in hand and plan on doing that 4 of the 7 days we are down there. Last year our group tore up the hardheads :thumbsup: :sarcasm: caught some nice bulls, decent trout, crokers, lady fish ect. We will also do some late night fishing for sharks and rays. Last year our biggest was a 10' great hammer head.


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## Chapman5011

Yes but I believe from the beginning , the original poster may not be a weekend warrior and only thinks of deep sea fishing is fishing for red snapper, that's what a lot of people associate deep sea fishing with. The infamous red snapper. 

Stupid fish has destroyed saltwater fishing in a whole.....


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## johnf

AAR said:


> Have you ever been on a guided deer hunt? They don't guarantee that you will kill a deer. You don't bring home any bass either.
> 
> Listen, y'all. I haven't read every post in this thread, so maybe I'm going off half cooked here. Let me see if I've got this right. If I'm not mistaken - this thread is questioning the premise of whether Charter Fishing is still a fair value proposition even though you don't get to keep Red Snapper. Right or Wrong?
> 
> So, my answer to that question is that, hell yes. Charter fishing provides, not only fair value but disproportionate value to the consumer vs. the provider. Go walk around the docks and look at these Charter Captains. Now is a great time to buy a Charter Boat, by the way. These guys, who are pretty much every one, masters of their craft. Honest, decent and hard working - just trying to make a good living doing what they are good at - and they're being told that their service is overpriced relative to the value that they are bringing to the supply / demand equilibrium.
> 
> That is to say: if I can't leave Pensacola with a cooler full of either Red Snapper, Grouper or Amberjack - I am not satisfied with the service you have provided. It doesn't matter to me that the $900 ($150/hr for 6 hours - I'm guessing because I don't know what this guy's actual parameters are) I am paying you for me and my 5 high schoolers to ride (So - here is the demand side of the equilibrium - $900) in your $100,000 boat (what are payments on $100,000 boat monthly?), that is going to burn $400 in gas for our trip, that costs you $1,000 (?) / month in slip rent, $40 in bait (or either you stayed out last night away from your family to catch the pinfish we are fishing with), maintenance expenses, marketing expenses, deckhand expenses (here is the supply side of the equilibrium), and after all that maybe enough profit for you to pay the rent on your house and feed your family. Plus, let's add in the vermillion snapper, the beeliners (lane snapper), and all the other edible fish that can be caught (is Amberjack in then?).
> 
> Guys, let me say this. My dad took me on 1 charter fishing trip when I was a kid. Do you want me to tell you what we caught? Forkifiknow. What I remember is the sound of those huge diesel engines and the sight of the huge wake churning up behind us as that monster vessel came on plane and carried us out onto the open ocean. I remember the sight of the sun coming up over the ocean in the East - the most beautiful sight I often see, for the first time seeing it. I have a lot of memories from that day, but none of them have anything to do with what we put in a cooler and took home to cook.
> 
> So, spare me any sense of sorrow I should feel for these young men who saved up their money for you to take them on a fishing trip, that you are about to back out on - because you can't bring home a cooler full of Red Snapper.
> 
> Golly.


Yes, you are going off half cocked. If you have read the whole thread you would know that most of the guys have told me what else can be caught and have said that it would be well worth it. We do all know and understand it's called fishing and not catching, but would also like to be able to keep what we do catch. You're comparing apples to oranges. If I paid big dollars for a deer hunt and the guide took me to the deer and said you can shoot it, but you can't keep it, you bet I would be pissed. That seems to be a bit of the issue with the snapper to me, though it's not the guides fault. I get that. 

Oh, there aren't 5 kids, there are 10 and the boat we've got will hold us all and 5-7 more.


BTW for those of you who want to catch them. We are still 5 folks shy of a full boat. If you would like to join us on June 24 it's a $100 a head plus tip and cleaning. PM me if you're interested. 

I think I said this in an earlier post, but they did get us a boat with some sort of permit that we can keep snapper in.


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## Chapman5011

I just read the original post again. 
He is willing to spend $900 for red snapper. For $30 worth of meat. But complains about it. 
Your paying $900 for the offshore saltwater experience. You go and catch fish in the ocean. That's what you pay for. It takes fuel to move a big boat. And there has to be a profit in anything that will survive. And most are doing everything they can to stay afloat. 

If he just wants a boat ride, the dolphin cruises in orange beach are $12 a person, and you can buy some red snapper meat at blaylocks on the way home for $30.


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## AAR

johnf said:


> I hate to sound harsh here, but that's just an elitist jerk kind of attitude. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, I don't know. These are good kids from good families. They aren't on welfare, they just don't have the money that the normal clientele have down there. If the value isn't the meat why do those riding along only have to pay $30 on a party barge rather than $100? If you are a capt, you aren't doing yourself any favors by this comment.


I did not mean it that way (elitist). I did mean for it to sound harsh, though.

How much money do you think "normal clientele" have? Going out on a charter boat is less expensive per person/per day (@ $150 / person) than going fishing on a 21' personally owned Wellcraft with a 150 HP Yamaha. So, we're not talking about Executive class here. That is my point. 

I'm not a captain and I'm not familiar with the Party Barge arrangement. I imagine it is because the deck hands aren't serving them and they require no bait, no gear and no fishing real estate on the deck.

Hey look, it makes no difference to me what you and your troop wind up doing. I do have a problem with you coming to a fishing forum and saying that Charter Captains aren't worth the price they're charging, when they're charging the bare minimum they can to operate. These guys are taking it on the chin from every which a way, and nobody is backing them.

I take offense to it.

If your proposition is that we should cease to have a Charter Fishing industry, then I fundamentally disagree with that proposition as well.

I'll say it again, those guys create memories. Not just fish sandwiches. 

Clearly, you're stuck to your guns. Why don't you tell us what you do for a living and we'll tell you whether you are worth your salary.


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## AAR

johnf said:


> BTW I did a search on transportation charters and came back with almost nothing, but you google fishing charters and you get a lot of hits. :whistling:


I don't get it.


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## 153 Large fish

The truth of the matter is that not everyone can afford to go on a charter boat, but $150 is more than reasonable. It's cheaper than I would charge for taking strangers with limited experience and skills in a dangerous environment while on my expensive boat, using my expensive gear, burning my outrageously priced gas, while I work all day using my knowledge to Keep them on the fish, while I pay a guy or 2 to bait your hook, retrieve your fish etc....it's fair!


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## Chapman5011

I would be willing to bet that 75 percent of all the fish that people take home from charters get put in the freezer, then a year later the wife makes you throw it in the trash because it's a year old. Most of the charter fish just go to waste, in my opinion. 
I catch the hell out of fish when I'm down, although I give 90% of it away to people I know will eat it with in a few days. 


I was only saying in a very long fashion that it is well worth going on a boat for hire or party barge. It's memories you can't get standing on the bank. 

Also to add to my calculation, if there is 10 kids with only one shaperone , thats 22 red snapper that 75% would never be eaten. Let's say the average is 10 lbs which is very reasonable per fish, which some will be twice that size, we are looking at 220 lbs of snapper at a minimum. Most of that meat will not get eaten. 
I don't care who goes fishing or not. On snapper weekends with smooth water, I will be passing everyone headed to better fishing grounds that isn't a parade of bass boats and fish and ski's trying to get 9 miles offshore like these fish are full of gold nuggets. The water will be in the 80's and there are much better fish in the sea than the elusive american red snapper. Although we will probably stop on the way in for 10 minutes just to say we caught a few.


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## badonskybuccaneers

johnf said:


> I think I said this in an earlier post, but they did get us a boat with some sort of permit that we can keep snapper in.


The Gulf Headboat Collaborative program allows the selected vessel to catch an allotted amount of snapper throughout the year....

http://www.gulfshores.com/media/media-kit/releasearchive/releasearchivedetail.aspx?ID=710


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## johnf

Chapman5011 said:


> I would be willing to bet that 75 percent of all the fish that people take home from charters get put in the freezer, then a year later the wife makes you throw it in the trash because it's a year old. Most of the charter fish just go to waste, in my opinion.
> I catch the hell out of fish when I'm down, although I give 90% of it away to people I know will eat it with in a few days.
> 
> 
> I was only saying in a very long fashion that it is well worth going on a boat for hire or party barge. It's memories you can't get standing on the bank.
> 
> Also to add to my calculation, if there is 10 kids with only one shaperone , thats 22 red snapper that 75% would never be eaten. Let's say the average is 10 lbs which is very reasonable per fish, which some will be twice that size, we are looking at 220 lbs of snapper at a minimum. Most of that meat will not get eaten.
> I don't care who goes fishing or not. On snapper weekends with smooth water, I will be passing everyone headed to better fishing grounds that isn't a parade of bass boats and fish and ski's trying to get 9 miles offshore like these fish are full of gold nuggets. The water will be in the 80's and there are much better fish in the sea than the elusive american red snapper. Although we will probably stop on the way in for 10 minutes just to say we caught a few.


9 kids and 5 chaperones actually. Only 10 of us want to fish. We are bringing a small chest freezer in one of the trucks. We will be there 7 days and plan on grilling, blackening and frying as much fish as we can that week. Legends of my blackened redfish are famous up here. We've got a filet station, two vacuum sealers and an arsenal of filet knives coming with us just for the surf fishing. These kids are seasoned catfish and striper fishermen on the Arkansas river. We eat what we catch up here. Been watching how to videos on felting sharks, rays and surf fishing and kayak vids in my office during lunch for a month or so.


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## johnf

AAR said:


> I don't get it.


Post #42



AAR said:


> Then take them to a grocery store. Do them a favor and teach them to respect the value of a man's trade. Charter Boat Captains are not just meat butchers. They're providing you with a travel service. The value is in the trip, not in the meat.


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## Spoolin Up

Don't you guys know Red Snapper are almost extinct!! They are right there with manatees and nessie. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## johnf

Chapman5011 said:


> I just read the original post again.
> He is willing to spend $900 for red snapper. For $30 worth of meat. But complains about it.
> Your paying $900 for the offshore saltwater experience. You go and catch fish in the ocean. That's what you pay for. It takes fuel to move a big boat. And there has to be a profit in anything that will survive. And most are doing everything they can to stay afloat.
> 
> If he just wants a boat ride, the dolphin cruises in orange beach are $12 a person, and you can buy some red snapper meat at blaylocks on the way home for $30.


I didn't complain about anything. I was asking a question and I got an honest answer and would have gone even if they hadn't done what they did. Go on just about any charter web page and you see about 90% of their pictures are red snapper. That leads a guy who has never done it to believe that snapper is 90% of what you catch. I now know that's not the case. That was the whole point of asking the question.


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## aqua-holic

Just a note of caution to the OP. It seems to me that the consortium that can keep red snappers 365 days are charging $20-25 per fish to keep those red snappers. If your charter is one of those, your cost will increase significantly. Just check before hand so your don't get surprised with a $500 sur-charge at the end of the day.

Other than that, just come have fun. One of the most enjoyable fishing trips I ever made was on a party boat out of Port Charlotte, FL, and all we caught was grunts and ruby red lips. Just a great bunch of people enjoying the fishing experience.

Good luck to you and the young men.

Steve


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## johnf

Thanks for the heads up. If that's the case we will likely go with the other boat and just not catch them. They didn't say anything about that, but I'll call and ask just to be safe.


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## badonskybuccaneers

johnf said:


> Thanks for the heads up. If that's the case we will likely go with the other boat and just not catch them. They didn't say anything about that, but I'll call and ask just to be safe.


I'd like a follow up on this...


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## johnf

badonskybuccaneers said:


> I'd like a follow up on this...


No sure charge. 

Want to come?


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## tbaxl

AAR said:


> Wait a second..
> 
> "_These kids will likely never come back to the beach for income reasons. I want to do as much as I can with them for as few dollars as possible. _"
> 
> So, you're going to cancel the trip if they can't fill your coolers with meat, but it is all about the experience and they may never get to come back to the beach?
> 
> This doesn't make any sense? So, what is your alternative? Going on a sunset cruise? I don't get it. Are you trying to teach them about fishing, or about how to be frugal?


How about this, you have a bunch of adults and kids driving long distance to catch and keep their catch or just not fish. Or look at it this way and maybe you can understand, you drive to Arkansas to hunt ducks in timber and spend lots of money in the process. You want pictures, for the outdoors experience as you said, or do you want some meat to take home. I don't cull, shoot or keep over my limit but i certainly like to have something to show for it, I assume in your eyes I am a poor sportsman. By the way a refuse to support any commercial fish house, no problem with a good charter operator but the fish houses can go south for the time being.


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## tbaxl

johnf said:


> Thanks for the heads up. If that's the case we will likely go with the other boat and just not catch them. They didn't say anything about that, but I'll call and ask just to be safe.


OP please ignore the negative guys on here i guess they or i can not comprehend what you were asking, but i think i got it right. Come on down and fish the trip sounds reasonable to me.


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## johnf

tbaxl said:


> OP please ignore the negative guys on here i guess they or i can not comprehend what you were asking, but i think i got it right. Come on down and fish the trip sounds reasonable to me.


 
Thanks for the kind words. I'm pretty sure you get what I'm after here. I didn't realize that I was opening up such a can of worms with such a simple question. After talking to the company the Snapper thing has hurt them, at least in Alabama. After reading the post on here about all the other species that we can keep I would have gone regardless of the snapper issue. So then my question was answered to my satisfaction, and had convinced me that it was worth it even without the big orange fish. Apparently there are a lot of people bailing on the Alabama boats for Fl and LA who don't have that bit of information.

Tight lines. :thumbsup:


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## johnf

AAR said:


> I did not mean it that way (elitist). I did mean for it to sound harsh, though.
> 
> How much money do you think "normal clientele" have? More than a high school kid who had to sell 500 candy bars in order to go because his parents jobs got cut when the place they were working went out of business. Going out on a charter boat is less expensive per person/per day (@ $150 / person) than going fishing on a 21' personally owned Wellcraft with a 150 HP Yamaha. So, we're not talking about Executive class here. That is my point.
> 
> I'm not a captain and I'm not familiar with the Party Barge arrangement. I imagine it is because the deck hands aren't serving them and they require no bait, no gear and no fishing real estate on the deck.
> 
> Hey look, it makes no difference to me what you and your troop wind up doing. I do have a problem with you coming to a fishing forum and saying that Charter Captains aren't worth the price they're charging, when they're charging the bare minimum they can to operate. These guys are taking it on the chin from every which a way, and nobody is backing them.
> 
> I didn't say anyone wasn't worth something. I asked a question. I take offense to someone getting all bent out of shape over something that has no affect on them. If you don't have an answer to the question then your pissing and moaning about it only makes you look like a jerk. Maybe your not. It's hard to say. A simple, yes it's worth it because...........would have been much more effective.
> 
> I take offense to it.
> 
> If your proposition is that we should cease to have a Charter Fishing industry, then I fundamentally disagree with that proposition as well.
> 
> I'll say it again, those guys create memories. Not just fish sandwiches.
> 
> Clearly, you're stuck to your guns. Why don't you tell us what you do for a living and we'll tell you whether you are worth your salary.


 
BWT, I pretty much ignored the post that just said yes or no. I like reasons. They make me happy.


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## badonskybuccaneers

johnf said:


> No sure charge.
> 
> Want to come?


I just wanted to confirm the thought that even with the cost to be included - to the vessel to fish in the pilot program, that they wouldn't charge their clients a bunch extra because their ability to boat and keep red snapper throughout the year and the increased revenue because of it would offset their expense- and even make it more profitable without charging the clients extra. 
Sorry, did that make sense? :001_huh: I'm tired and sometimes my words have been confused lately.

Anyway- thanks for the offer, I'm hoping we'll be offshore on out own boat loading up on some pelagics (dolphin, tuna, and wahoo). Got some "friends" of my own wanting me to help them boat some fish. Tight lines and Good luck....
Mike


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## AAR

johnf said:


> BWT, I pretty much ignored the post that just said yes or no. I like reasons. They make me happy.


Hey, I hope you have a lot of fun down here and catch fish to your heart's desire.

I don't have any ill will for you.

These charters have been taking it on the chin. I just wanted to make a couple of points. I'm sorry for the harsh tone. I hope y'all have a lot of fun and make it home safe.


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## AAR

tbaxl said:


> How about this, you have a bunch of adults and kids driving long distance to catch and keep their catch or just not fish. Or look at it this way and maybe you can understand, you drive to Arkansas to hunt ducks in timber and spend lots of money in the process. You want pictures, for the outdoors experience as you said, or do you want some meat to take home. I don't cull, shoot or keep over my limit but i certainly like to have something to show for it, I assume in your eyes I am a poor sportsman. By the way a refuse to support any commercial fish house, no problem with a good charter operator but the fish houses can go south for the time being.


Wait, we're not allowed to take pictures any more either?? 

Dang. 

For what it's worth, I like shooting ducks but I do not like eating ducks. I also do not like the taste of deer, but I've spent a hell of a lot of time shivering in a deer stand.

Have a nice day.


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## johnf

AAR said:


> Wait, we're not allowed to take pictures any more either??
> 
> Dang.
> 
> For what it's worth, I like shooting ducks but I do not like eating ducks. I also do not like the taste of deer, but I've spent a hell of a lot of time shivering in a deer stand.
> 
> Have a nice day.


See that's just nuts to me. I hate the taste of duck and will never hunt them. I just don't see any point in shooting something I'm not going to eat or isn't a nuisance. I don't like catfish either and never target them. About the only thing I do that's not for the meat is shark fish, but if I catch a good eatin' size black tip we will be BBQing that beast.

I deer hunt quite a bit and process my own. I like it better than beef.

Tight lines.


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## salinesolution

Red Snapper is open from May24 - July 14 in state waters. Their are plenty of near shore charter capt that will put you on quality fish right up to the last day of the season. If the Charter you have wont make you happy, go to another.

We caught multiple limits of quality (19"-24") Red Snapper on the last day of the 2013 season, on public reefs in state waters close to the pass. 

Hot Spots is 1 of the best but their are several others.


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