# Pond survey - with shock boat



## Reelbait (Mar 3, 2013)

Had been on the waiting list for the Univ. of Tennessee Fisheries to come out survey fish population and balance in our pond for a couple of months. This was an owner participation (netting fish) and was well worth finding out after seven years.

What to find out:
1) What is the balance of bream to bass
2) Are the sizes and density good for the 4 surface acres
3) How good/bad is the feed stock population (fingerlings and flat head minnows)

Initial stocking was 3000 bream in Nov 2011 and 300 F1 largemouth in May 2012. Subsequent stocking included a couple of hundred hybrid bluegill and 10's of pounds of flat head minnows over several years.

The good news: I have plenty of large bream. Plenty of bait fish.
The bad news: I have too many large bream. It's preventing the bass from getting really big. Lots of 1-2 lb F1.
All fish were released.


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## swhiting (Oct 4, 2007)

I just so happen to specialize in large bream removal services.....


Great info! 




..........................


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

Time to put in some work with some crickets and the bream buster, get those numbers in line and get the grease hot


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## CalvinandHobbes (Jan 25, 2014)

sounds like a few fish frys ought to fix that


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## boomshakalaka (Dec 4, 2012)

What'd they say about your bass population? We plan on having ours done next spring.


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## Reelbait (Mar 3, 2013)

We didn't see any really big bass. He said they hear the motor and get out of range of the electricity. This was the first time any motorized boat has been in the pond.
The electrical probes are good for about 6 ft down and 6 ft out. The original generation of F-1 fingerlings should be pushing 7 yrs old. Only one bass this year over 4 lbs was caught. People were fishing about 45 days+ days this year and around 150 lbs of large bluegill were removed and about 25 lbs of bass. 
Bottom line: I need to have even more feedstock in the pond in either more bluegill minnow, more flat heads or may consider adding shinners. 
The pond has been fertilized 3 out of 7 years to bring up the photoplankton levels after the winters rain.


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## Rammer Jammer (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks for sharing! I have a just over 1 acre pond and I have been curious about my bass to bream ratio....have LOTS of big bream, but the quality bass numbers (bass in general really) have been declining. Sounds like I need to rid the pond of a few 5 gallon buckets full of those big bream. Another thing I have more of than I probably should is turtles - you could near about walk across the pond at any time on the shells of turtles. I presume they are decimating the fish population??


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## jack2 (Mar 19, 2010)

my friend, dr. overstreet, had three ponds, 2ac, 4ac., and 10 acres. he would stock 100 tilapia every spring. in jan. when the water temp. hits 50, the tilapia, which were then about 2lb. would sink to the bottom and die, then float to the top where the buzzard feasts began. one year, i netted about 40 when they started swimming slugishly and starting to sink in the shallows.
you might want to try this method. i caught many 4-5 bass in the 4ac pond.
released of course. the bream were not as big as yours, either which means like you said, no bass food stock. those shellcracker and bream in the pic are quite large. so, no food for the bass.
my uncle stocked golden shiners in his pond in crenshaw county and ruined it. he would pay me to fish out the 1lb shiners cause they were too big for his bass population.

jack


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## Reelbait (Mar 3, 2013)

I asked about the fisheries expert about turtle population in our pond. We have a number of 8-12 in mud turtles in the pond and seemingly more every year. And if shocked, most don't float up.
He explained that ponds reach a "max capacity" of turtles then they start moving elsewhere. And they know when it is reached. Turtles provide more benefit than damage to ponds by eating any dead fish and plants. 
For my turtle and snake control, pond banks are a 3:1 slope that I mow down to the water's edge with a bushhog. This allows hawks to scarfe up an occasional snake or small turtle. Also I see raccoon tracks along the bank and an occasional turtle shell.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Why not stock some mudbugs, crawdaddy's, crayfish? 

As for ya'lls turtles, they can decimate fish beds while in larvae and fry state. I keep a friends ponds rid of turtles with a 17hmr and occasionally shoot them with a 12ga. The only good pond turtle is a dead pond turtle.


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## Rammer Jammer (Oct 1, 2007)

CurDog said:


> Why not stock some mudbugs, crawdaddy's, crayfish?
> 
> As for ya'lls turtles, they can decimate fish beds while in larvae and fry state. I keep a friends ponds rid of turtles with a 17hmr and occasionally shoot them with a 12ga. The only good pond turtle is a dead pond turtle.


I did put a new scope on my .22 recently. ;-) Just didn't want to rid them all if they have any benefit as the previous post suggests. I keep hearing conflicting reports turtles. In the meantime, sounds like a good opportunity to sight-in that new scope.


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## Reelbait (Mar 3, 2013)

Can't shoot there. Livestock on one side, horses on the other and house in the other direction. Any ricochet off the surface and good neighbors get pissed.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

You can make a turtle trap pretty cheap and easy. We use a 55-gal steel drum with a few holes drilled. Then a board on a hinge. Sink the drum until the rim is about 18" above the surface. Turtles climb up the board, and when the weight ratio gets right... ploop! Into the drum. Repeat until full. Then you can dip them out and dispose or relocate. It helps to balance the board properly of course. And beware of the waterlogged end, it can get to heave to ploop!


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Reelbait said:


> Can't shoot there. Livestock on one side, horses on the other and house in the other direction. Any ricochet off the surface and good neighbors get pissed.


Same problem at my friends, at least on 2 ponds anyway. That's why I use the 12ga when the livestock is nearby. Been shooting his for better than 10 yrs now. #8 shot and never once had a ricochet. 
As far as the turtles eating the dead fish? I guess they will, but I'd be more concerned as to why you have lots of dead fish to begin with? 
Bream and catfish will also eat dead fish to a degree, just like using cutbait. And those loggerhead and softshell turtles are way worse on your fish population. Those water turkey's are real bad too. But they normally don't take room and board in ponds, maybe a week or two, but they can eat a lot of poundage during that short time. And if you have a large pond, they'll stay for extended months there.


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

This...there's a net basket under the water and a door hinge under the top board so it'll flop down when they get too far out


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## Reelbait (Mar 3, 2013)

Made one of these traps and used it for a couple of years. About 4ft long and 3 ft wide with a 2'x2' opening. 4" PVC pipe and elbows for keeping afloat. Used a 1"x1" heavy mesh. However, I brought the mesh up over the rim of the PVC. Didn't need the board and turtles could enter from either end, up a gradual slope. Made a mesh cylinder up the center to hold a fish partially in and out of the water. 
Worked great. Backed over one edge of it with the tractor, oops. Need to bend it back into shape.


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## tmber8 (Mar 2, 2011)

Reelbait, I would like to propose on alternative. Your pond has a quality bream population because your largemouth bass population is overcrowded. Hear me out:

Bream spawn multiple times throughout the summer, creating plenty of forage for young largemouth bass. They simply have an unlimited food supply of baby bream. This creates high survival rates of largemouth bass and they quickly grow to that 1 pound range. However, because their is such good survival to that size, they quickly become stockpiled at this size and consumer all of the forage they need need (mainly juvenile bream) to grow to a larger size. 

What does this do to the bream population? Because survival to adult size is low (bass eat all of the juvenile bream), the few that are lucky enough to grow to adult size have an unlimited food supply.

The answer to getting your pond back into balance is to provide more adequate sized food (3-4" fish) to your pond so the bass can grow out of that stockpiled 1 pound size class. How do you do this? You could add forage, as others have suggested, but make sure it's large enough. Fathead minnows will only help the small bass grow. Think threadfin shad or golden shiners (they will eat fish eggs) The real answer is to remove excess numbers of bass, so that more bream survive to that juvenile/adult size. You could also add a supplemental feeding program to help fatten up your bream, which will translate into more quality forage for your bass, thus increasing their growth rate.

I admit I'm sorry to hear their assessment of your pond. Normally these guys have it together. Maybe I missed something and they are correct, but a pond that produces trophy bluegill is almost always a bass crowded pond. That's fine if you want big bluegill and a high catch rate of bass. It's a good way to get young ones interested in the sport. However, if you want a balanced or trophy bass pond, then a majority of those bass need to hit the grease.

If you have any questions, feel free to message or call me.

Matt Wegener, owner of Pensacola Pond Pros
www.pensacolapondpros.com


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## Reelbait (Mar 3, 2013)

Matt,
You're right. I spent quite some time speaking with Walt of trophypond.com today. We're going to be adding many 3" - 4" copper nose soon. 
They are a couple of counties over and have about 8 ponds for stocking. Will also be adding some true Florida largemouth to cross breed the F1 in the spring. Great info on trophypond.com about NOT having just F1s in a pond.
Also getting the 6 grass carp out of there.
All the existing big bream will be catch and release for at least a year.
I'm on the boat for the weekend on Bayou Chico. Just got down. May run out and hit some structure Sunday.


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## Capt Glenn Flowers (Jul 26, 2018)

Put 1 flathead catfish in there. Problem solved.


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## boomshakalaka (Dec 4, 2012)

Curious, what is the reasoning for removing the grass carp? We also have them in our pond - supposedly were stocked at the correct rate some many years ago, but now they are just big ol grass carp that eat all of the bream feed we put out. I was told that these stocked grass carp do not reproduce, so no fear of them overrunning a pond, but that once they are this big and eating up your pellets, it's time for them to go.


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