# Alabama Charterboat EFP Canned?



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Heard a rumor that the Alabama Charterboat IFQ EFP has been "canned" - anyone else hear this?

That is some good news, if true. No reason to give any boat 4,000 pounds of snapper when we private recs are looking at a probable 0 day season next year.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Have not heard the rumor yet. I bet Tom & Bobby will chime in soon.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Crickets!!


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

This would make me smile.......


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

Come on Tom you can't just drop a bomb like that and not tell us more.


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## Bravo87 (Jun 19, 2014)

Watching


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Yep it's true.

Not sure why your so against us getting something when you yourself enjoy a 365 day season and all the members of the forum enjoy a 52 day season. But make no mistake. If 40 doesn't go through then we'll all enjoy a 52 day season next year along with about at least 20 of my closest charterboat friends. 

And we've all already bought the FL licenses so please don't start the whole we won't let you fish over here redderick.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Booby Kelly (Lopealong),
Your threats are becoming tiresome.

I don't understand why you don't endorse and embrace what YOUR Alabama DNR is doing to correct the obvious problem here - collecting ACTUAL DATA regarding effort/landings as well as counting the fish where they live.

Kevin Anson and Chris Blankenship are showing that the NMFS overestimated Alabama recreational effort by a factor of 2.5 TIMES. They are also doing their own assessment of the fish living in the Alabama reefing zones, the preliminary results showing that there may be 20 TIMES the amount of snapper in the Alabama reefing zones than the NMFS acknowledges to be in the ENTIRE Gulf.

THAT is the answer - NOT dividing the pie based on bogus data gleaned from 30 years ago.

Let's see; if you should have fished 2.5 TIMES the ridiculously low number of days this season, that would have resulted in a 23 day season. Multiply that 23 days by 20 TIMES the biomass, and you get *way over* a 365 day season *FOR EVERYONE - IMMEDIATELY.*

Yet, all I see is you EDF-funded goons holding on to the hope that the* TRUTH* *(that Sector Segregation and Catch Shares are not even needed)* will not come out.

Funny thing about the truth - I think this man knew a little bit about that;

*You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.* *Abraham Lincoln*, _(attributed)_
_16th president of US (1809 - 1865)_


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

They greedy and that's why


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Listen your misspelling of my name is as juvinelle as that outfit you wore to the Biloxi meeting. I mean c'mon really, board shorts and a button down? I was rather fond of the board shorts, though. I just wanna know one thing, did the homeless guy fight back much when you got them?

I think what Alabama is doing is innovative and if the federal government would accept the data it would greatly improve this debacle we are in. But they will not. Dr Shipp has completed numerous studies paralleling the same data that the state is doing and it fell dead ears, probably just like the AL state study will do.


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## jjam (Dec 9, 2007)

Lope, curious as to why the IFQ program you & fiends supported got canned? 
And, would it be profitable for you and 20 close CFH fellas to chase RS in Fl state waters from Al port? 

The RS bite became less than great after the second week due to pressure this season in Fl waters so, chasing a slow bite from Al may not so profitable for you guys.

We should all be fighting TOGETHER to obtain realistic stock assessments in our G.O.M. so we can all get back to reasonable fishing seasons I say!

Jimmy


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Bobby Kelly (Lopelaong),
So now you are not only the expert in fisheries management but the fashion police as well? I'm sure EDF had a dress code to follow for all you goons in addition to their talking points.

My apologies on the play on your name - always liked Talladega Nights. 

There comes a time when the NMFS will be FORCED to accept the truth of the situation, no matter how hard they don't want that to happen, and that time is coming right soon.

Your leader Gary Jarvis has long claimed that better data is not the solution, and that it will not get us any more fishing days. He also claims that the fish are a public resource only if they are caught on a private boat.

He is wrong on both accounts. 

I would say its pretty moronic to suggest that better data is NOT a good thing, especially when we ALL know that the fish are plentiful - actually, more than plentiful. But again, you guys really don't want better data do you? That might jeopardize the free money that has been promised to you by your enviro benefactors when you gain ownership rights to *OUR* fish via Sector Segregation / Catch Shares.

The 9 day red snapper season this year was a DIRECT RESULT of your EDF-funded cohorts' lawsuit, and is part of this grand scheme to manufacture a "crisis" where there is none in order to justify the "solution"; Sector Segregation and Catch Shares. 

It would certainly help if you "leaders of the industry with years of real-world experience" would get behind Alabama DNR and openly support them instead of simply shrugging your shoulders and hoping upon hope that they fail.

Amendment 40 is dead. It's time to move forward with REAL data so that you, me, your customers, and the rest of the Gulf recreational fishermen can get on with catching *OUR* fish.


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## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

Tom, if we ever meet, beers are on me. Thanks for everything you do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Interesting red snapper graph see explanation below...*the red snapper stock began to grow with a six month season and a four fish bag limit.*

*The blue area (y axis) represents the red snapper gulf stock assessment data provided by Bonnie’s graph (though the numbers are not exact to the digit). The red area along the bottom (x axis) represents the landings data provided by Roy Crabtree for the recreational landings annually. Landings data was not provided for 2010 and is not available for 2014. I then added the year with the season and bag limits. The key includes the source data for y and x axis by the year, however the graph is so large that it doesn’t fit in the slide with the source data fully exposed.*


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

*PART II *



"I know there are many questions in the aftermath of my very brief presentation of the information I requested from Drs. Ponwith and Crabtree. I hope this email will clarify questions you have and open the door for any further inquiry into the subject.

*Rep. Southerland* was interested in the idea of a five year pilot program that would establish a six month rs season and a two fish bag limit for the Gulf of Mexico that would be managed by fishing mortality rather than by strict quotas issued in pounds of fish. *We were looking for the proof of what we’d been told, that the rs stock began to grow with a six month season and a four fish bag limit.* No one I asked had the proof, but they remembered it being the case.

Every stakeholder I spoke to assured me that a six month season would not impact the stock, so I kept looking. *Finally it occurred to me to ask NMFS for the data. *I think I initially emailed Andy and my email was referred to Topher Holmes. Topher set up a conference call with Bonnie, Clay and another staff member that handles rs at the Science Center, plus Michael from our DC office and me. *The call was very helpful in that we were all able to get on the same page regarding Rep. Southerland’s request for data. I explained that we wanted to see the stock assessment results from 2000 to present with dates of assessments and updates included. I asked for management decisions because we wanted to see how those affected the growth of the stock.* I also asked for annual landings data and quotas for both sectors. This call occurred on May 16th and I received the data in early July, after reminding Topher and Bonnie that I still didn’t have it. I received the requested data in three graphs. One was the stock assessments and management decisions and the other two where the recreational and commercial landings by year. I then asked Bonnie to add the FMP goals to the graph and I received that update rather quickly.

*Later, when sharing the data with Rep. Southerland, we realized that 2013 to 2015 stock assessment data were missing. I received an updated version of the graph with data through 2014 about a week and a half prior to the Gulf Council meeting in Biloxi. In an effort to answer some of our questions related to the data, Bonnie included some new graphs that showed the rebuilding timeline and the pounds of fish represented by the original graph. *

I had all those graphs ready on my Power Point presentation at the meeting, but as you know my time was limited to three minutes and I was never able to ask Karen to advance to the next slide which would have revealed the graph Bonnie sent me.

In an effort to get a clear picture of what we catch compared to the biomass, I requested the landings data from Roy for the year 2000 to present. *He was only able to provide me with 2001 to present. So explain my graph: The blue area (y axis) represents the stock assessment data provided by Bonnie’s graph (though the numbers are not exact to the digit). The red area along the bottom (x axis) represents the landings data provided by Roy for the recreational landings annually. Landings data was not provided for 2010 and is not available for 2014. I then added the year with the season and bag limits. The key includes the source data for y and x axis by the year, however the graph is so large that it doesn’t fit in the slide with the source data fully exposed.*

I’m including, in an attachment, all the graphs that were sent to me along with the one that I created in order to compare biomass to landings. My graph is the first slide in the power point and is what I showed during my presentation with one edit to highlight the growth of the stock from 2000 to 2007 while the rec sector was permitted a six month season with a four fish bag limit. The last graph in the presentation is a graph from Dr. Crabtree showing the MRIP and Headboat trips data. In our opinion this reveals the errors in MRIP data compared to the headboat reporting data. While headboats reported fewer trips during the 2013, 28 day season, MRIP reports a tremendous increase in charter and private rec. trips. 
I understand that this information has not been presented in this format and has confused and surprised some council members and stakeholders. I have nothing to hide here and will be happy to share emails or anything else requested of me. 

*Our intention is to provide a clear picture of the data that represents what everyone sees in the Gulf. *

*It is Rep. Southerland’s belief that it is not necessary to establish management schemes that will lead to privatization of the resource and will require recreational anglers, private or charter, to buy access to a public resource from a commercial catch share holder or any other entity that is able to purchase ownership of the resource;* Americans are entitled to access a resource that their tax dollars pay to manage for growth and opportunity. NOAA’s own data clearly shows that access can and should be increased and that the severely limited access should be rectified right away.

After the Labor Day weekend, Rep. Southerland will be following up with a formal request for the Council to act on this information and reverse its course toward unnecessary management "


Ms. Thompson,
Thank you for your hard work and diligence in getting this information prepared.

I believe that a five year pilot program establishing a six month red snapper season and a two fish bag limit for the Gulf of Mexico that would be managed by fishing mortality rather than by strict quotas issued in pounds of fish is a *GREAT IDEA*, considering the data coming out showing a much larger biomass than we have been led to believe. This new information underscores the need to place a halt on the current push for Amendment 40 in order to verify which is the "best Available science" regarding our biomass numbers as well as effort/landings numbers _*BEFORE*_ moving headlong into Sector Separation or Catch Shares. This 6 month season would provide stability to the for-hire fishery as well as be a badly-needed shot in the arm for the entire Gulf of Mexico recreational fishing community.

Additionally, the data gleaned from a six month season would provide much more valuable data in a much more comprehensive way than what could ever be gotten from a 9 day season, or even a split recreational fishery where data is being gathered on one portion of the fishermen while using status quo data collection techniques on the other, as apparently is the "plan" at this time with Sector Separation.

Considering the large impact that Amendment 40 would have upon *ALL* future generations of Gulf fishermen, it is extremely important that we get this right _*BEFORE*_ sliding down the slippery slope of sectors and catch shares, and therefore should be placed on the next Gulf Council agenda so that it can be vetted appropriately without the limitations of a 3 minute presentation. Again, considering the assessment being performed by the Alabama DNR which preliminary results show that there may be 20X he amount of red snapper inside the Alabama reefing zones than the NMFS acknowledges to be in the ENTIRE Gulf of Mexico, coupled with the graphs that you supplied Ms. Thompson, it is clear that there are extremely large discrepancies in the data, which clearly illustrates that any management decision to alter the basic framework of our fisheries management is premature at this time.

I suggest that you request that this item be placed on the next Gulf Council meeting agenda due to its extreme relevance to the topic at hand.

Tom Hilton 
__________________


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Correction to the graph - the red snapper season in 2006 was 194 days / 4 fish limit (not 2 fish limit) and the NMFS data shows it was growing even with a 6 month/4 fish scenario.

I believe that what this graph shows is that once the 6 month/4 fish limit harvest was removed, the stock has NOT been "overfished", but has in fact been severely UNDERFISHED thus causing untold damage to the Gulf ecosystems...the snapper have been expanding their range dramatically because they are HUNGRY. They are eating everything in sight, including probably large negative impacts on juvenile and larvae of other species such as triggerfish and vermillion snapper.

What does that mean?

1) The term "overfished" is the legal reason for the NMFS to inflict all of these unneeded draconian restrictions - remove that designation and they should be required to back off.

2) This shows the need to INCREASE harvest dramatically until order has been restored. I think Southerland's suggestion of a 5 year plan, with a 6 month season / 2 fish bag limit is entirely justified at this time.

3) Sector Segregation / Catch Shares are clearly not needed, at all.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

If you are in Congressman Southerland's district over toward Panama City I hope you are voting for him. 

In 2012 Ocean Champions/EDF spent $350K in an attempt to have him unseated.


Now the same groups are challenging his reelection in 2014.



*Politics-Minded Marine Group Targets ‘Ocean Enemy #1’*

By Andrew C. Revkin September 1, 2014 11:56 
*This story is included with an NYT Opinion subscription.*
_Ocean Champions: Leading the Attack on Congressman Steve Southerland, “Ocean Enemy #1”_
Long before Bill Maher introduced his “Flip a District” concept on his HBO show, the folks at Ocean Champions perfected the idea. Supporters of the group choose an “Ocean Enemy #1” — the member of Congress who does the most to harm the oceans — then the organization goes after the politician who receives the dubious title.​Photo








David Wilmot, a marine biologist, is the president of the organization Ocean Champions.Credit Ocean Champions
The organization, led by the marine biologist David Wilmot, is different than many other conservation groups in that it is a 501(c)(4) organization with a connected political action committee called Ocean Champions PAC. It does three main things — get good people elected, help develop sound ocean policy, and, what I think is the most fun (but that’s just me), they go after “Ocean Enemies.”
In 2006 they put the label on California congressman Richard Pombo and not only helped get him defeated, but kept him in their crosshairs — helping make sure he lost again in 2010 when he attempted another run.
Now Ocean Champions has identified Representative Steve Southerland of Florida as its current “Ocean Enemy #1.” The latest poll commissioned by Ocean Champions shows the challenger, Gwen Graham, has taken a slight lead. Ocean Champions made a nice TV commercial featuring a local fisherman speaking out against Southerland: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B-LPO02Mz64 (*Published on Aug 13, 2014* 
A Panama City (Fla.) fisherman (Billy Archer) explains why Congressman Steve Southerland has turned his back on the people of Florida's 2nd Congressional District and why he will not be voting for Southerland in November.) Surprise Surprise Billy Archer is a leading proponent of Sector Separation. Yet he has the huge Nads to make a politcal commercial that states he wants to "protect our way of life". LMAO 

By November Southerland may be joining Pombo in Davy Jones’s locker.
The chair of the Ocean Champions board is my friend Samantha Campbell. I asked her a simple question — is it working?
She replied, “Absolutely. Just look at our record of accomplishments — we’ve backed 52 members who are now serving in the 113th Congress, we recently orchestrated a bipartisan effort to defeat legislative action that would have killed funding for a sustainable fishery program, and played a major role this summer in the passage of the first piece of freestanding ocean legislation this Congress – a bill to combat harmful algal blooms, hypoxia and dead zones.”
So let me offer a view that will probably offend some conservation folks. I sometimes look at paralysis on marine conservation issues and think, “Why doesn’t someone just go to D.C. and fix this?” Ocean Champions is one group I’ve seen over the past few decades that has really taken this sort of real-world philosophy and put it into action for the oceans.
I’m a big fan, and encourage you to support them so you can help sink the ship of Southerland on election night.​


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Found This. keeps getting better and better_

Ocean Champions "Billy". Haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=B-LPO02Mz64 







NOAA SERO NR00-045
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Chris Smith
9/8/00
NOAA PROPOSES PENALTIES OF $12,500
AGAINST TWO PANAMA CITY RED SNAPPER FISHERMEN
Unlawful Fishing Activities Aggravated by Lies
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has charged two Panama City, Fla., fishermen in separate cases with multiple Magnuson-Stevens Act violations and proposes to assess them with civil penalties totaling $12,500 and a permit sanction of 45 days.
James E. Hoffman, operator of the F/V Jamie Lee, allegedly harvested red snapper while the recreational and commercial seasons were closed, filleted fish at sea, and hid them in a compartment aboard the vessel. Bill P. Archer, owner and operator of the F/V Seminole Wind, allegedly exceeded the bag and possession limit for red snapper and filleted fish at sea. Both fishermen allegedly made false statements to officers concerning their fishing activities which resulted in a proposed penalty of $2,500 being added to their base assessments. Hoffman was assessed a total of $7,000, and Archer was assessed a total of $5,500 plus a 45-day permit sanction. They will have 30 days from the date they were notified to either pay the penalties, seek to have them modified, or request a hearing before an administrative law judge to deny or contest all or any part of the charges and penalties assessed.
"The discovery and investigation of these violations was made possible because of the outstanding partnership that's in place between the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission Enforcement Division and NOAA Fisheries' Office for Law Enforcement," said NOAA Enforcement attorney Cynthia Fenyk. "Fishermen must understand that illegal fishing activities will not be tolerated. Making false statements to authorized officers and any effort to conceal illegal fishing can only worsen their predicament."
NOAA Fisheries urges citizens to report fishery violations during weekly business hours of 



 a.m. - 



 p.m. Eastern, to its Southeast Region Law Enforcement Division at (727) 570-5344, or after hours and weekends at its National Enforcement Hotline at (800) 853-1964.
NOAA Fisheries is an agency of the Department of Commerce's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The agency conducts scientific research and provides services and products to support fisheries management, fisheries development, trade, and industry assistance, enforcement, and protected species and habitat conservation programs﻿


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

these environmental groups, in this case Ocean Champions and EDF are all interconnected. Just another conspiracy theorist here. 

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000033473&year=2014



Lobbying Expenses Reported by Subsidiary Environmental Defense Action Fund​ 

*Firms Hired*​ 

*Total Reported by Filer*​ 

*Reported Contract Expenses (included in Total Reported by Filer)*​ 
Environmental Defense Action Fund
*$600,000*
AnnDyl Policy Group
$10,000
K&L Gates
$110,000
*Ocean Champions*
$10,000
Peck Madigan Jones
$60,000
Slaney, Joanna
$20


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

You know they are desperate when they have to use a guy that has a history of fishery violations as their pin up boy for Ocean Champions, but then again, look at who they have to choose from.

Hey, maybe EDF will pay for more billboards so that Jim Clements can claim he is a charter captain again!

Of course, they fail to mention that catch shares REDUCE jobs, and do nothing for the fishery itself - they are a financial instrument that controls fishermen and privatize our Public Trust Resources.

Kudos to Congressman Southerland for standing up to the bullies and for fighting the good fight.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> Listen your misspelling of my name is as juvinelle as that outfit you wore to the Biloxi meeting. I mean c'mon really, board shorts and a button down? I was rather fond of the board shorts, though. I just wanna know one thing, did the homeless guy fight back much when you got them?
> 
> I think what Alabama is doing is innovative and if the federal government would accept the data it would greatly improve this debacle we are in. But they will not. Dr Shipp has completed numerous studies paralleling the same data that the state is doing and it fell dead ears, probably just like the AL state study will do.


You are questioning spelling? Might wanna look at your first post under this thread "redderick"? That the best you can do on this topic?


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

2RC's II said:


> You are questioning spelling? Might wanna look at your first post under this thread "redderick"? That the best you can do on this topic?


Tom has owned him in this thread. He can't handle being taken to the wood shed. 

Nice job Tom!:notworthy:


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

Chet88 said:


> Tom has owned him in this thread. He can't handle being taken to the wood shed.
> 
> Nice job Tom!:notworthy:


I'm gonna say, for the record, that I think Tom owns him in every thread on this subject. 

If I haven't said it before; Tom, thank you for all your unending work on rec. anglers behalf.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Again with the all evil commercial lawsuit. So which cost is more days? The lawsuit or states noncompliance? Lawsuit caused NMFS to put in place a 20% buffer which cost is 8 days and the dear states cost us 15 days. So who's more evil. 

Heard a funny story about greed and money and Cabo San Lucas today. Hilton care to inform us how much a young Mexican boy making fish paintings makes a day? And what happens when those boys don't get paid?


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Chet88 said:


> Tom has owned him in this thread. He can't handle being taken to the wood shed.
> 
> Nice job Tom!:notworthy:


Now that's entertaining.

Anytime he'd like to take me out back to a real life wood shed we'll find out who the sonuvabitch is.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

LopeAlong said:


> Now that's entertaining.
> 
> Anytime he'd like to take me out back to a real life wood shed we'll find out who the sonuvabitch is.


And there it is. You realize that your whole argument is full of shit, so you go to the ole 'I'll kick his ass." I bet you were the bad ass of the playground.


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## ssrs69camaro (Aug 9, 2014)

I'm a 62 year old former Marine.Your woodshed or mine?


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

LopeAlong said:


> Now that's entertaining.
> 
> Anytime he'd like to take me out back to a real life wood shed we'll find out who the sonuvabitch is.


Look everyone we have a internet tuff guy! Haha you are embarrassing yourself. Just stop.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> Again with the all evil commercial lawsuit. So which cost is more days? The lawsuit or states noncompliance? Lawsuit caused NMFS to put in place a 20% buffer which cost is 8 days and the dear states cost us 15 days. So who's more evil.
> 
> Heard a funny story about greed and money and Cabo San Lucas today. Hilton care to inform us how much a young Mexican boy making fish paintings makes a day? And what happens when those boys don't get paid?


The enviro-funded lawsuit cost us 63.5% of our season this year - what part of that do you not understand Amigo? 

You tell me about the Cabo story - apparently you know more about it than I do. Just more lies coming from your camp about something that you have no clue, but then again, that's new?

And, more threats of physical violence coming from you - just goes to show the type of person that you are - a liar and a bully in addition to being a thief who is trying to steal *OUR* fish from our children.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

Sounds like some need to back off the testosterone replacement. :whistling:


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

:watching:


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## scott44 (Aug 17, 2013)

LopeAlong said:


> Now that's entertaining.
> 
> Anytime he'd like to take me out back to a real life wood shed we'll find out who the sonuvabitch is.


No need to get the red ass about it,it's just fish.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

Bobby, 

I know you've posted it before but could you remind me of the names of the boat(s) that you run?


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## spike (May 25, 2008)

MrFish said:


> And there it is. You realize that your whole argument is full of shit, so you go to the ole 'I'll kick his ass." I bet you were the bad ass of the playground.



Yep... That's exactly what happened at the Orange Beach meeting.


That's the way these boys act when under pressure. A very immature group they are.:thumbdown:


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> Now that's entertaining.
> 
> Anytime he'd like to take me out back to a real life wood shed we'll find out who the sonuvabitch is.


 Funny. Can't even spell a curse word! What a goober. What you need to do is start looking for a new line of work because the line of work you are in now is short lived. You may need to google short lived.


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## scott44 (Aug 17, 2013)

Bump this back up!It was getting good,it had name calling,violent threats etc....lol


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

2RC's II said:


> Funny. Can't even spell a curse word! What a goober. What you need to do is start looking for a new line of work because the line of work you are in now is short lived. You may need to google short lived.


Man, I'm really not sure who's laughing at who's being laughed at at this point. I think I'll do just fine in my chosen profession. A 9 day season and yet I still booked over 240 trips this year. Even swung a motor on one boat and here I am. 10am sitting at Waffle House wondering how I'm going to leisurely spend my day. 

Crickets from Hilton tho on how many days the lawsuit cost us versus the state noncompliance. 

Miss Brianna and Liquid Therapy are my boats.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Anyone else is free to answer the lawsuit versus noncompliance question as well. 

And please don't misdirect the next response about data.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm not an attorney, but this is what I see;
The season was set to be 40 days but was reduced to 15 days due to the 20% buffer as a DIRECT RESULT of the GUINDON VS PRITZKER lawsuit (62.5% reduction).
The season was further reduced to 9 days due to state non-consistency (15% reduction).
Total reduction - 77.5%.

I think this sums it up pretty well;
*"The Council’s decision to request an emergency rule was made following the decision of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia (Court) in Guindon v. Pritzker, 2014 WL 1274076 **(D.D.C. Mar. 26, 2014). After recalculating the season length based on the ACT and using the 2013 Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP) landings estimates, NMFS is setting a 9-day fishing season."*

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sustainab...s/pdfs/gulf_rs_2014_emergency_action_rule.pdf​ 
*Emergency Rule To Revise the*
*Recreational Accountability Measures*
*and Revise the 2014 Recreational*
*Fishing Season for Red Snapper in the*
*Gulf of Mexico*
*NMFS issues this emergency*
*rule to revise the recreational*
*accountability measures (AMs) by *
*establishing a recreational annual catch*
*target (ACT), and revise the 2014*
*recreational fishing season for red*
*snapper in the exclusive economic zone*
*(EEZ) of the Gulf of Mexico (Gulf), as*
*requested by the Gulf of Mexico Fishery *
*Management Council (Council). At its*
*April 2014 meeting, the Council*
*requested an emergency rule to revise*
*the recreational AMs for red snapper by*
*applying a 20-percent buffer to the*
*recreational quota, which results in a*
*recreational ACT of 4.312 million lb*
*(1.956 million kg), round weight. The*
*Council’s decision to request an*
*emergency rule was made following the*
*decision of the U.S. District Court for*
*the District of Columbia (Court) in*
*Guindon v. Pritzker, 2014 WL 1274076 *
*(D.D.C. Mar. 26, 2014). After*
*recalculating the season length based on *
*the ACT and using the 2013 Marine*
*Recreational Information Program*
*(MRIP) landings estimates, NMFS is*
*setting a 9-day fishing season. The*
*purpose of this rulemaking is to better*
*ensure red snapper recreational*
*landings do not exceed the recreational*
*quota established in the rebuilding plan,*
*in accordance with sections 303(a)(15)*
*and 407(d) of the Magnuson-Stevens Act*
*(16 U.S.C. 1853(a)(15); 16 U.S.C.*
*1883(d)) and the Court’s ruling.*
*This emergency rule is effective*
*May 15, 2014, through November 11,*
*2014. The red snapper recreational *
*fishing season will open at 12:01 a.m.,*
*local time, on June 1, 2014, and close at*
*12:01 a.m., local time, on June 10, 2014.*
*Electronic copies of the*
*documents in support of this emergency*
*rule, which include an environmental *
*assessment (EA), may be obtained from*
*the Southeast Regional Office Web site*
*at http://sero.nfms.noaa.gov.*
*NMFS is using the ACT to set *
*the 2014 recreational fishing season. *
*Based on the estimated landings data*
*from the 2013 fishing season (from*
*MRIP, the Southeast Headboat Survey,*
*and the Texas Parks and Wildlife*
*Department (TPWD)), average fish size,*
*the length of the 2014 recreational*
*fishing seasons in state waters off each*
*Gulf state, and estimated catch rates in*
*state waters, NMFS has determined the*
*2014 Federal recreational fishing season*
*needs to be reduced from 40 to 15 days. *
*The Federal season is further reduced to *
*9 days when it is based on the *
*recreational ACT. The reduction in the*
*Federal fishing season length (15 to 9*
*days) is not proportional to the buffer*
*applied (20 percent) because NMFS*
*needs to account for the landings that*
*will continue to occur from state waters*
*when Federal waters are closed.*​


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Just got an email from AFTCO and they have come out against Amendment 40.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

That landing estimate by the State of Alabama sure blows the living shit right out of any legitamacy MRIP may have had. MRIP, and Amendment 40 blow like a sack of queers.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> Man, I'm really not sure who's laughing at who's being laughed at at this point. I think I'll do just fine in my chosen profession. A 9 day season and yet I still booked over 240 trips this year. Even swung a motor on one boat and here I am. 10am sitting at Waffle House wondering how I'm going to leisurely spend my day.
> 
> Crickets from Hilton tho on how many days the lawsuit cost us versus the state noncompliance.
> 
> Miss Brianna and Liquid Therapy are my boats.


 Figured you would bite on that one. Some of you guy's are so easy. Well actually most of you guy's are so easy. Who is reading the menu for you? Baaaahaaaahaaaa.


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

LopeAlong said:


> Man, I'm really not sure who's laughing at who's being laughed at at this point. I think I'll do just fine in my chosen profession. A 9 day season and yet I still booked over 240 trips this year. Even swung a motor on one boat and here I am. 10am sitting at Waffle House wondering how I'm going to leisurely spend my day.
> 
> Crickets from Hilton tho on how many days the lawsuit cost us versus the state noncompliance.
> 
> Miss Brianna and Liquid Therapy are my boats.


Does your Mgr at Waffle House know your on the internet? Get back to your station before they fire you.

Karma is a bitch. Keep on running your mouth.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Note to Mods. I just a SS. It's for my own entertainment. Don't kick me off. Unlike Lopealong I am retired so I don't need to or don't want to work 240 days a year. I did that for about 40 years and enjoy sitting on my deck having a cocktail 365 days a year and I do enjoy the waffle house a couple times a year and don't need a cabbage head charter fisherman coming on here and trying to downgrade the ole rec. guy. BTW I have plenty of charter guys I fish with and love going out with them from time to time. They are great guys and who is against a guy trying to make a living at what he is good at? But a cabbage head is a cabbage head! Sorry.


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

What is the difference between the EFP and Sector Seperation?


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## jcasey (Oct 12, 2007)

Got slow there for a while, but it's getting good again.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Chet88 said:


> Does your Mgr at Waffle House know your on the internet? Get back to your station before they fire you.
> 
> Karma is a bitch. Keep on running your mouth.


 Now that right there is funny! But I'm and ole retired SS. Just trying to keep it going for my own entertainment. But you stepped it up.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

jcasey said:


> Got slow there for a while, but it's getting good again.


 Ahhhhh. We just trying to give out enough rope. That's all. You come on here giving it you gonna get it. Some people are not smart enough to figure it out. But yes it's getting better.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Your not someone who can do simple math either because 20% of 40 is 8. 

8 days and state noncompliance cost us 17 days.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

I would comment but like I said I'm just a SS so I am out! On this thread. RTR


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

2RC's II said:


> Note to Mods. I just a SS. It's for my own entertainment. Don't kick me off. Unlike Lopealong I am retired so I don't need to or don't want to work 240 days a year. I did that for about 40 years and enjoy sitting on my deck having a cocktail 365 days a year and I do enjoy the waffle house a couple times a year and don't need a cabbage head charter fisherman coming on here and trying to downgrade the ole rec. guy. BTW I have plenty of charter guys I fish with and love going out with them from time to time. They are great guys and who is against a guy trying to make a living at what he is good at? But a cabbage head is a cabbage head! Sorry.


Who said anything about 240 days a year? 2 boats and 2 trips a day in the summer widdles down the days pretty fast. Best year I've ever had with a poultry 9 day season. I'm fighting for this for my customers. Your fighting me because most of you can only catch a red snapper. Unfortunately it means a lot to both of us.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Hey Bubba. I'm just messing with you but apparently you are not smart enough to know that. Sorry man did not know you were challenged in your smarts. My bad. RTR. BTW it's football season now so I D G A S about fish or fishing now. Gotta get your priorities in order this time of year. Joe Patties now. You guys are amazing. You really think we give a Rat's azz about what you think or do. Wow!


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

LopeAlong said:


> I'm fighting for this for my customers.


Wow.:whistling:


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> Your not someone who can do simple math either because 20% of 40 is 8.
> 
> 8 days and state noncompliance cost us 17 days.


Yes, you are simple Bobby Kelly.

You are assuming there is a direct correlation of a 20% buffer and the season length? 

Damn. Really goes to show the mentality of who we are dealing with here, and kinda blows your argument for Sector Segregation to smithereens...

*"The Council’s decision to request an emergency rule was made following the decision of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia (Court) in Guindon v. Pritzker, 2014 WL 1274076 **(D.D.C. Mar. 26, 2014). After recalculating the season length based on the ACT and using the 2013 Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP) landings estimates, NMFS is setting a 9-day fishing season."*


http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sustainabl...ction_rule.pdf

Just out of curiosity; according to your math, the lawsuit cost us 8 days, and state noncompliance cost us 17 days. 40 - 8 - 17 = 15. Doesn't add up.​


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> Who said anything about 240 days a year? 2 boats and 2 trips a day in the summer widdles down the days pretty fast. Best year I've ever had with a poultry 9 day season. I'm fighting for this for my customers. Your fighting me because most of you can only catch a red snapper. Unfortunately it means a lot to both of us.


"poultry 9 day season"?

Are you killing chickens out there too?


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## spike (May 25, 2008)

*fish*



johnboatjosh said:


> Wow.:whistling:


Yep, that's what he said. Funny, isn't it. :no:


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Tom Hilton said:


> "poultry 9 day season"?
> 
> Are you killing chickens out there too?


Damn iPhones


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Your iPhone is not the problem Amigo.


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## scott44 (Aug 17, 2013)

I wonder if the commercial guys could get on disability? They can't be good for much else if not for that.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

LopeAlong said:


> I'm fighting for this for my customers.


Now that's funny.


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