# The new Pensacola Bay Fishing Bridge



## Michael Hoyt Williamson (May 9, 2017)

Hey guys I would like your thoughts on the new Pensacola Bay Fishing Bridge. Escambia County built this new fishing bridge at the cost of 10.74 million dollars. It is 2,576 feet long and will have 14 fish attracting lights installed, and is set to open by January of 2010. On August 24th the county decided that they would offer the management of the fishing bridge to the city of Pensacola. The staff of Parks and Recreation with the city at present is recommending that cars not be allowed on the bridge, pedestrians only. I first found out about this two weeks ago in a column by Mark O?Brien in the news journal. I called the City Parks and Recreation and talked to Mr. Charles Morgan. I told him that not allowing cars would be a big mistake. He informed me that the reason for doing so was traffic safety concerns because of the bridge being so narrow. I told him that if the new bridge is not as wide as the old one then yes this would be a problem, however if its the same width or wider than the old bridge then there is no traffic problem because cars have maneuvered in tight quarters on the bridge since 1961. Last Thursday I talked to Mr. Buddy Connelly the number two man in Parks and Recreation. He had notes from the previous conversation with Mr. Morgan. They had gone over to the remains of the Gulf Breeze side of the fishing bridge and measured the width. The new bridge is actually eleven inches wider than the old bridge. Now all of a sudden since the new bridge is wider than the old bridge, it was so much a safety issue as it was a cleanliness issue. According to Mr. Connelly the city wants to be able take the street sweepers and the water truck out on the bridge to keep it clean. If cars were allowed out there they would interfere in this process of keeping the bridge cleaned. Yesterday I talked to Mr. David Flaherty, the number one man with the city Parks and Recreation. I asked him where did the idea for not allowing cars on the new bridge originate. It was his idea. According to him in order for cars to be allowed on the fishing bridge another lane would be required so that people could fish and park without being in harms way of the traffic. After a lengthy and somewhat heated discussion, Mr. Flaherty has decided to change his original recommendation to the city council. His new recommendation will be that a committee of myself and two of my colleagues and of he and two of his staff will be created to debate the strategy of the use of the new bridge.
I need your input, what do you want? I personally think that it asinine not to allow cars out there. That bridge was engineered and built to have cars on it. If they wanted another walk-on pier they could have built one for a lot less money. I am willing to spearhead the fight to make this a drive on bridge if you, the fishing public want this. Last Saturday I was on the Florida Sportsman radio show with Mike Flowers and Ed Fish. We had twelve listeners call in and voice their concerns about the new bridge. All twelve said that they wanted to drive on the bridge. Monday night at the ?Hook Line and Sinker? seminar at Flounders on Pensacola Beach, Chris Phillips did a survey of the eighty people in attendance. All but two wanted to be able to drive on the new bridge.


Gentlemen the time to act and to be heard is now! 


Mike Williamson 850-572-6342
[email protected]


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

Sit on it Potsi!


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## Death From Above (Sep 28, 2007)

Drive on with overflowing shitters and garbage cans that don't get used every 300 feet. We need it to look just like the old bridge.


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

How about some city owned golf carts to shuttle people up and down? Maybe we could get some stimulus dollars for light rail with rod racks on the front?


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

the entire idea of the CITY running the bridge is the bigest mistake since Obama was voted into office...

i've got two words.

*EPIC FAIL*


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)

> *Michael Hoyt Williamson (9/17/2009)* Monday night at the ?Hook Line and Sinker? seminar at Flounders on Pensacola Beach, Chris Phillips did a survey of the eighty people in attendance. All but two wanted to be able to drive on the new bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> </A>




Be like asking if a fat kid likes cake or Kinda like asking portofino residents if they want an elevator or just take the stairs. I Doubt it would hurt anyone to have to walk with their gear and it would cut down on some of the b.s. as well.


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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

The OLEBetter than Nothing.

Alright, Before Ivan, there were so many people on the old bridge, on both sides. Some nights it seems that therewas no where to park cause of all the people. Now that theyhave built the new pier only a fraction of what one side was , length wise. I don't think that the new pier is near long enough to accomodate the people that will want to fish from it. Gonna have to take a number, Sir. You can visit some of our other city parks if you wish, we'll call you when we have a spot for you. Just my .02 on the new pier. The pier is much needed for landlocked fishers.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

How long does it take to walk down the bridge with a fishing cart? Is there adequate parking at the foot of the bridge? Can you pull in and park on the bridge without interrupting the fishing going on? Can you back up and turn around without disturbing the fishing going on behind you?

I'll probably fish the bridge once a year, but it should be as "user friendly" and SAFE as possible.

Jim


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## karma (Oct 26, 2007)

I would be more than happy to see no vehicles on the bridge!! Besides the new bridge is like a third its size and would accommodate more people if everyone walked on. 



Another note is.. if they have to walk.. they will have to actually hide their cans of spray paint!!


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## katz (Mar 20, 2008)

THATS ALOT OF MONEY FOR A SIDE WALK,BUT I BELIEVE ITS NOT LONG ENOUGH FOR CARS;FOR THAT MUCH MONEY,SHOULD PUT SMALL LANE IN MIDDLE WITH CARTSERVICE ADDED TO PAYMENT TO THE BRIDGE FOR FISHING''':usaflag:letsdrink:hungry


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

I was one of the 2 that raised my hand and got blasted...Guess im not alone..:usaflag


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

_*The Pensacola Fishing Bridge allowed Vehicles on it before Ivan. *_

_*It shoulddo so now. *_

_*Ivan took enough from us, damnit. *_

_*We want as much back as possible !!!!!*_

_*Please work hard to place Pensacola in "Pre-Ivan" condition.*_

_*Thank you for you efforts on behalf all of us.*_


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## jollymon (Oct 17, 2007)

I say let them drive , but charge $$$$$. This would keep the traffic down, while allowing people who are disabled, have little babies, are taking a group of children or old people, ect. to still go fishing. Just my 2 cents


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Get to steppin'

This place could use a little exercise.


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## Ocean Man (Sep 27, 2007)

Why spend 10.74 mil if you cant drive on it????????


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

I honestly think it should have been geared towards a walk on bridge anyway. Now that they've spent 10 million dollars it seems like they would allow cars.

I don't care what they do really. Believe it or not by my big ass has no problem walking down any of the current bridges and I wont mind walking down that one. The way I look at it, most people are too lazy to walk all the way down to the end, so that's where I go so I can fish in peace.


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## Deeplines (Sep 28, 2007)

At 1st I thought Hell yea drive on it. Then read the responses and listened to thier input. Noticed the bridge was less the 1/2 mile long. 

EVERY CAR will want to be at the end most likely, If memory serves me correctly I never saw anyone fishing the 1st 1/4 mile on the old bridge excpt to catch bait. I loved the old bridge because I COULD drive out on it and set up my grill and fish. 

Sounds like EVERYBODY is gonna be on the last half of the bridge, last 1,000 feet or so. I don't think there will be room for cars outon the end, little along room for tents and grills like the old bridge. For that reason I will not be using it at all, Might as well go to the pier on the beach. ( I would go to Alabama St. Park pier personnally, shorter drive and no toll.)

SO , I would vote walking only even though I most likely will never set foot on it. 

Way to stand up against all the resistence DYLAN. Sounds like you thought this out more then the rest. Like I stated, at 1st it was hell yea drive out on it. Then reading just a small part of the problems I recommend it only be walking. I think either way the thing will be a BUST.


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## Dagwood (Oct 1, 2007)

I look at it this way as a taxpayer. There may be 1000 people that use the bridge to any extent so let's take the $10,740,000 it took to build it divide that by 1000 and buy each one of them a $11,000 boat. I see that stimulating the economy.:doh


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Ocean Man (9/18/2009)*Why spend 10.74 mil if you cant drive on it????????


Pensacola and Navarre pier both cost more than that. Get out and walk people. It's an outdoor activity.

No let's clog it up with cars it's simply is not big enough to support all the folks that will be fishing off it.Run a shuttle of some sort but keep the cars in the parking lot.


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## Island24 (May 12, 2008)

I favor walking, but I do like the idea of a small fee for walking on and a much larger fee for driving on and let the market decide.


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

I think I raised my hand also (i might of had a few beers in me, hence the memory loss) but I was in the back so i doubt anyone saw my hand...or maybe they did and I was the only moron other than dylan to agree with such a thing. I too think it'll be beyond crowded if you let cars on. Get your wagons and pier carts and walk to the end folks.



Did the GB side allow cars the last couple of years it was open?


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

I think ample reason is there for strickly walk on. Sanitation issues, Quality space issues, Only 14 cars will get a "light" spot and the rest are outa luck? If there's any rational thinking involved (not that we'll have to worry much about that) a walk on deal is the logical option. Think about it, do the math what's the average length of a car, safe distance between each car etc.


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## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Bill Me (9/17/2009)*How about some city owned golf carts to shuttle people up and down? Maybe we could get some stimulus dollars for light rail with rod racks on the front?


+2 If the street swearers are on it would the trash be blown into the water?????


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## BIGRIGZ (Oct 2, 2007)

I think the walk on idea is the best BUT, I think that allowing cars a 30 minute window to drive out and unload would be the best compromise. There are a lot of folks that have smaller kids, lots of junk, no pier cart, old age, etc. etc. etc. I think that basically there should be driving allowed but, NO Parking.


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## msagro1 (Oct 11, 2007)

six passenger golf carts


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## Just_Ducky (Sep 19, 2008)

Has anyone forgot that there is such a thing as a FISHING LICENSE required now as to none required before Ivan. I think there will probably be less fishing there now. And if there is a charge--there will be even less there. Just my $.02.


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## choppedliver (Apr 4, 2009)

I dont think its big enough. People on both sides fishing, you gonna drive down the middle with a car? Asking for someone to get run over, equipment damaged, etc. How many cars can you fit ? How much fishing space is going to be used up when you have 20 cars? 

The pensacola beach pier is quite long, and people fish on it. I dont see the difference. Its a quarter mile to the end of this thing. I have walked a quarter mile to a fishing hole in the sand, pier would be easy


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

I see the possibility of a side business here.....

Charge two dollars for round trip service on a golf cart. Continuously run it back and forth. Dollar each direction. Have a cell phone to take calls requesting pick ups if in between runs. Make it 15 minutes between runs unless it is really busy, in which case just run non-stop.

Just get service contract through the city to be a authorized transportation provider......

sounds like money waiting to be made to me!


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

I say the disabled and over 55 can drive..They should have a good looking lady for trolley/beer(much like a golf course girl)...I was sick of getting my jeep hit with rods and other cars..Ive seen kids almost ran over too..Think how packed it used to be and now its half the size..Is there going to be a capacity?


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## Hydro Therapy 2 (Sep 11, 2008)

Frankly Scarlet!!


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## Fishermon (Oct 19, 2007)

I'd say drive on it....just get there early....I drove over the 3mbtoday andI counted aboout a good 40 sections+.. two carsper section....it will be busy on weekeends for sure ...but likeI said get there early and get your spot and be happy...question...can you stay overnight? camp out put the grill out and enjoy the weekend like it just to be?...also since its an outdoor activity encourage people to take their bycycles rigged with a cooler and and all the goodies involved...also I wonder what's the percentage of people "on this forum" going to be regulars there....Im expecting a new fishing forum for the bridge like it just to be....just saying... It's gonna be nice passtime...I know that, a differerent/new experience...Id say DRIVE ON IT.


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## Death From Above (Sep 28, 2007)

The P'Cola side (before Ivan) has been walk-on only for long periods of time before. Remember when it had to have all the repairs done to it? Hardly anyone used it when they could not drive-on and it will be that way again if drive on is not allowed.


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## pb&jellyfish (May 1, 2008)

Good point DFA


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## FishVan (Oct 6, 2007)

Did the GB side allow cars the last couple of years it was open?[/quote]

Yep, the only time I fished it was one week before Ivan. It was really cool to drive out there with my two young kids at the time. Just poped the trunk and they were fishing. Now they're bigger and I'd make em walk and carry their gear.

Maybe allow cars, but limit the number out there at any given time. That way others have room. Then first come first allowed on as one comes off...something like that.


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

make 'em walk! dont have the money for a pier cart...get a little red wagon and strap some PVC off to it for rod holders....put some wheels on your cooler and TA DA! now you can fish....now disabled and over 55 should be able to drive and let the truly disabled drive not the ones who steal grannys sticker becasue they are lazy


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

Disregard,Doubled post


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

Dylan, Im sorta with you on the elderly thing but if you havent noticed theres a lot of dissabled out there not really dissabled if you know whatI mean. Some abuse that dissabled thing to the maxx. Not knocking the ones who really are dissabled. I've seen alot of People parking in dissabled spots who werent to my knowledge dissabled . Walked & did things normal.Even could run if needed. That's not right. So maybe they should trolley people out there. It will cut down on the Boom Booms & what have you if they had to walk. Some are to lazy to walk which may help in some situations. If your to lazy to walk, Drive to Joe Pattis. Will there be porta pottis out there? If I had to listen to C-rap from someones car stereo, It could become a hostile envoronment.


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## User6882 (Feb 4, 2009)

ive only ever fished the old 3mb 1 time n didnt really like it, too much trash n whatnot

i would say drive but now that i think about it WALK!! like ray said, i dont mind walkin my 300lb ass wherever i go, so y cant anybody else? :banghead

yea like other people said, u have 20 minutes to unload ur gear n get backoff.


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## Death From Above (Sep 28, 2007)

Here's my recommendation:

Vehicle $10 (24 hrs)

Each person in vehicle $5 (24 hrs)

Walk on $3 (24 hrs) No driving out to dump your shit off.

No annual passes.

You have to have a license to buy a bridge ticket even if you're an illegal Mexican. If those SOBs get out there the bridge will be F'd up all the time.

Use a couple ofworkers on golf carts to clean up the trash. No need for a street sweeper.


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## User6882 (Feb 4, 2009)

> *Death From Above (9/20/2009)*Here's my recommendation:
> 
> Vehicle $10 (24 hrs)
> 
> ...


yes omfg im tired of them at the t pier


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Michael Hoyt Williamson (9/17/2009)*Hey guys I would like your thoughts on the new Pensacola Bay Fishing Bridge. Escambia County built this new fishing bridge at the cost of 10.74 million dollars. It is 2,576 feet long and will have 14 fish attracting lights installed, and is set to open by January of 2010. On August 24th the county decided that they would offer the management of the fishing bridge to the city of Pensacola. The staff of Parks and Recreation with the city at present is recommending that cars not be allowed on the bridge, pedestrians only. I first found out about this two weeks ago in a column by Mark O?Brien in the news journal. I called the City Parks and Recreation and talked to Mr. Charles Morgan. I told him that not allowing cars would be a big mistake. He informed me that the reason for doing so was traffic safety concerns because of the bridge being so narrow. I told him that if the new bridge is not as wide as the old one then yes this would be a problem, however if its the same width or wider than the old bridge then there is no traffic problem because cars have maneuvered in tight quarters on the bridge since 1961. Last Thursday I talked to Mr. Buddy Connelly the number two man in Parks and Recreation. He had notes from the previous conversation with Mr. Morgan. They had gone over to the remains of the Gulf Breeze side of the fishing bridge and measured the width. The new bridge is actually eleven inches wider than the old bridge. Now all of a sudden since the new bridge is wider than the old bridge, it was so much a safety issue as it was a cleanliness issue. According to Mr. Connelly the city wants to be able take the street sweepers and the water truck out on the bridge to keep it clean. If cars were allowed out there they would interfere in this process of keeping the bridge cleaned. Yesterday I talked to Mr. David Flaherty, the number one man with the city Parks and Recreation. I asked him where did the idea for not allowing cars on the new bridge originate. It was his idea. According to him in order for cars to be allowed on the fishing bridge another lane would be required so that people could fish and park without being in harms way of the traffic. After a lengthy and somewhat heated discussion, Mr. Flaherty has decided to change his original recommendation to the city council. His new recommendation will be that a committee of myself and two of my colleagues and of he and two of his staff will be created to debate the strategy of the use of the new bridge.
> I need your input, what do you want? I personally think that it asinine not to allow cars out there. That bridge was engineered and built to have cars on it. If they wanted another walk-on pier they could have built one for a lot less money. I am willing to spearhead the fight to make this a drive on bridge if you, the fishing public want this. Last Saturday I was on the Florida Sportsman radio show with Mike Flowers and Ed Fish. We had twelve listeners call in and voice their concerns about the new bridge. All twelve said that they wanted to drive on the bridge. Monday night at the ?Hook Line and Sinker? seminar at Flounders on Pensacola Beach, Chris Phillips did a survey of the eighty people in attendance. All but two wanted to be able to drive on the new bridge.
> 
> 
> ...


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## cissysdad (Oct 7, 2007)

walk on is fine if you are not handicapped like my self i am not able to walk over a few hundred feet in one day because my feet wont allow it due to diabetis when i was able to drive out on old pier i spent a lot of time there but wont if i cant drive out to my spot where i would like to fish my 2 cents::hoppingmad:reallycrying


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

I think the dissabled should be allowed to drive on. It wouldn't bother me one bit.


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

Thats what I am saying Ray! I think we are all pretty much in agreement with the disabled and over 55 should be able to drive..I agree with Kenny about the abuse of the handicapped tag but oh well....I'm telling ya..There are going to be some crazy threads when that thing opens back up..I guarantee some are going to say "Couldn't find a spot" or "Tried to take the kids fishing" if they make it drive on..The Bob Sikes bridge is all walk on and Ive never heard ANYONE say anything about that..If you can walk and don't feel like it oh well..More fish for others..


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)

I personally cant wait for the bridge to open, and esp when the new navarre pier opens also. A lot of the harr tail fisherman and umbrella fisherfolk will be on the bridge, and most of the die hard rats will abandon the Pcola beach pier to go to the Navarre pier. So there will actually be (hopefully) some relaxing, peaceful pier fishing days on the pcola pier and with a little elbow room to boot on random weekends w/o all the circus side show bull sheet. We shall see! :letsdrink


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

Amen!:angel


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## FLbeachbum (Jul 17, 2008)

I say drive on. It's nice to be able to park, unload and fish. Nice to have the radio/CD player close by, nice to be able to jump into the car to get out of the rain for one of our quick showers. I would agree to pay $10 to drive on.


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## seacapt (Oct 1, 2007)

> Nice to have the radio/CD player close by,


Not because of you, but this would be the main reason I would vote against driving.


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## timman (Oct 3, 2007)

My dad took me fishing on the bay bridge alot back in the late '60's and early '70's, and I remember when you parkedyou would always set up lawn chairs, coolers and maybe a table behind and/or in front ofyour vehicle. Sort of like "staking out" your area. If the new bridge is that much smaller than the old one, I can see some big problems with people claiming their area and others trying to find a place to park. That being said, it sure was convenient to put everything in the trunk, park, and unload. Not to mention when I was a kid the back seat was a great place to take a nap!


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## Nat-Light (Oct 9, 2007)

I wonder what's going to happen when somebody slings a sinker into a windshield on 3 mb?


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## FLbeachbum (Jul 17, 2008)

> *seacapt (9/23/2009)*
> 
> 
> > Nice to have the radio/CD player close by,
> ...




I can understand that. There are not many other peoples music I want to hear.


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## Buckethead (Sep 2, 2008)

Hell, half of the Sky Way Bridge Pier in Tampa is closed down and you can still drive on that bastard and it's only one lane.


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## Clay Peacher (Oct 2, 2007)

Tear it down and build reefswith the concrete. Lets see, 2576' long x 20' wide (my guess)= 51,520 ft2 of debris

Build 8' x 8' reefs (64 ft2) 

51,520 ft2/ 64ft2 = 805 reefs

805 reefs x $500 each = $402,500

Build a walking pier with the $402,500

Now we have a fishing pier and a pile of reefs!


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## Jordan Stevenson (Sep 23, 2009)

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, but not having cars on thatpier is not a good idea. There's cars on it in the promotional picture on the sign beside it for crying out loud. Who wants tolug their gear and kids half a mile to fish? Better not forget anything in the car.


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)

well i guess if the architects' artist rendering for the project portfolio shows cars on the bridge i guess there should be.....:banghead


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

I like the idea of a couple of golf carts with small trailers going out and back every 1/4 hour or something for a reasonable charge per person (disabled and elderly ride free). Not sure if it's feasible money wise but it would be nice to be able to pay a little for the convenience or save a few bucks and walk.


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## Halfmoon (Oct 3, 2007)

That damn thing is going to ruin my winter Red fishing!


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

Forget that, Who would rather drive to fish? Walking is the best way. it saves us from Kooks & You know whats. I would rather walk than to Listen to C-rap the whole day or night. The Gold tooth wonders are not fishermen. Dont need thier so called music while I'm Fishing. YO!:boo


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## Jordan Stevenson (Sep 23, 2009)

> *OMEGA (9/23/2009)*well i guess if the architects' artist rendering for the project portfolio shows cars on the bridge i guess there should be.....:banghead


What I mean is that it was funded, designed, and built to be a drive-on pier. The drawing is on a sign telling the taxpayers what they're getting for their money, not just in the "project portfolio." I don't agree with changing horses midstream, especially for a crappier horse. However, "architects' artist rendering for the project portfolio" is probably the most words you could use to say "drawing"...

:clap


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Drive on, until the first shooting!



BillD


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## Death From Above (Sep 28, 2007)

Some of you guys act like the bridge was never drive-on before!! It was crouded with cars before Ivan on the weekends and when the WT were biting and that's the way it will be when it reopens. If you don't like it go to Bob Sikes.


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)

> *Jordan Stevenson (9/23/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *OMEGA (9/23/2009)*well i guess if the architects' artist rendering for the project portfolio shows cars on the bridge i guess there should be.....:banghead
> ...




:::siiiigggghhhh::::..... Looks me and you will get along just fine!:letsdrink



And by the way, the project wasnt funded, designed, or built to be a drive on pier. It was built to be a CASH HOG pier, by whatever 'means' are necessary and all the rules are subject to change, at any time, and with notice from 'management'. If you think they built that pier for anything other than to make profits you are crazy. And if they decide they can squeeze an extra 500 people @ $8 per head and figure for every 3.2 people they will earn an avg of $15 on concessions per day on that thing on any given saturday by limiting the use of cars you better believe thats the way it'll go dude. The funders wont care, they will make better return and faster. The designers dont care, they have been paid already. And the builders damn sure dont care, they will be in another town by then. and the "drawing" also shows some damn 1950's car that belonged to the Clevers on there, so yea that whole sign is for illustration purposes only and to promote the people that made it happen and the city.


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## fishinwhits (Oct 6, 2007)

Us out of towners want to drive on the bridge. When we used to come,we'd stay the night,sleep in the truck camper.fish the next morning,and go home. Payed for gas down,stopped at Gulf Breeze Bait and Tackle,fished the bridge,gas home. Cheap trip. Not being able to drive on the Bridge,means a hotel room,tackle being stole in hotel parking lot,etc.

I have needed to get away,and would drive down,fish,nap,fish,and come back home.JUST MY 02 WORTH Tony


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## Michael Hoyt Williamson (May 9, 2017)

An update from the committee meeting on September 28th held with the staff of the City of Pensacola Parks and Recreation has been posted on the forum.


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## Death From Above (Sep 28, 2007)

> *Michael Hoyt Williamson (9/29/2009)*An update from the committee meeting on September 28th held with the staff of the City of Pensacola Parks and Recreation has been posted on the forum.


Where?


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## User6882 (Feb 4, 2009)

yea id like to rread it


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Death From Above (9/29/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Michael Hoyt Williamson (9/29/2009)*An update from the committee meeting on September 28th held with the staff of the City of Pensacola Parks and Recreation has been posted on the forum.
> ...




http://www.orangebeachfishingforum.com/fishingforum/Topic432344-2-1.aspx


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