# Generator question



## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Now, Last year I ran my honda2000 with 3 500 watt halogen's for the entire year which is like 13.something amps and 1500 watts.

With only 3 lights there were some dark spots in between each light. I know it's a 2000 watt generator, however I've had other generators claim 2200 running watts but yet they wouldn't power 1500 continuous. 

Would I be able to stick a 250watt halogen in between the 500watt lights to take away some of that darkness? I would be running the genny at full load then and I'm not sure I like that idea much.

The would really like to be able to run 5x 500 watt halogens on the front, but the only problem is the generators that are 3500 watts etc are not exactly HEAVY but at 97 lbs I sure don't want to take it in and out of the boat every single night for weeks on end. Does anyone have any suggestions?


Also gigability when are they coming back ;P I need my fix!:thumbsup:




I guess I could solve all of this by using HPS lights, but whenever I start looking into them, and ballast and the weight and this and that, I'm not electrician and it tends to steer me away from them ;(.

Not a fan of LED's, although I thought about sticking 2 of jerry's 40 watt LED's underwater directly in front of the boat..


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

Get 4 150w HPS and you won't sorry and your gen. will run at just above idle. Depending on your boat you might can get by with 3


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

I do want HPS lights, and a lot of light, if I could run 3 250's, I would probably be happier then running 3 500 watt halogens. and at half the wattage. 

The problem is, like I mentioned I don't know what lights to get, where to get a ballast, how it's assembled, I keep searching the forums there dosen't seem to be a HOW TO anywhere and that's what I really need.

Or someone who has done it and can tell me what to do basically, I've googled until my eyes bleed and I find more crap for hps lights for growing pot then for fishing applications.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

This is the exact boat I am using by the way.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

Have you looked on Bowfishing Country site. econo.light is where I got my 150s


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## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

No need to take the ballasts out of the 150 watt HPS fixtures. They weigh about 9 lbs each. Make yoke style mounts and bolt thru the sides of the lights and use 2" fender washers for backing. They only pull 1.3 amps each and put out 14,400 lumens of light each compared to the 500 watt halos that only put out about 8500-10000 lumens and draw 3 times the amperage. You also have to worry about getting burnt on the fixture. Your Honda Genny is rated for 13.3 amps and only 1600 continuous watts.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Hi 5 prongs, I mean is there a place on ecolight that I can order exactly what I need already made? I start reading about HPS and i hear ballast and capacitors etc etc.

could I run 5 150's with my honda 2000?


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

so if the 150's only pull 1.3amps then I answered my own question.


Also what is a yolk mount? Could I use heavy duty zinc and bend it as desired and pre drill holes for mounting bolt? since i have a very small rail to mount the lights with on my boat.


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## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

Use aluminum flat bar. 2" wide by 1/4" thick. Get the single tap, 120 volt lights. They'll say HPF for high power factor. This designates that they already have the capacitors installed. Without them your amp draw go way up. I run 4 150s on a bigger boat than yours and its plenty of light. The econlite site is hard to navigate but yes you can order what you need ready to go. You'll just have to make your power cords for them whatever length is necessary. Make sure you use heat shrink on everything!!!


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

http://www.e-conolight.com/shop-by-product/floods/small-floodlights/small-hid/e-hc1h151z.html


So these are not the correct light as there is no "HPF" designation?


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

jtrump said:


> http://www.e-conolight.com/shop-by-product/floods/small-floodlights/small-hid/e-hc1h151z.html
> 
> 
> So these are not the correct light as there is no "HPF" designation?


 

Those will work using only four with a Honda EU2000i but are not the correct ones (HPF). You can order those then install the caps.I just got rid of 6 last night myself.

There is a good write up on Bow Fishing Country.


Since it is commonplace nowdays to add a 55uf capacitor inline to reduce amp draw of the 150 watt HPS npf ballast Econolight fixtures a warning is in order.
*Do not assume that since a 55uf cap is correct for that particular ballast/wattage combination that it is correct for any and all hps lights!!!*
Ballast type, manufacturer and wattage determine correct cap size/uf rating.
Using a capacitor with a higher than required uf rating will increase amp draw and decrease ballast life.
Using a capacitor with a lower than required uf rating doesn't hurt the ballast but won't reduce amp draw as low as possible.
Optional/optimum capacitor rating is usually on the ballast tag. 

HPS lights 
Watts / Lumens / / bulb life hours
35 / 2,2250/ / / 20,000
50 / 4,000 / / 20,000
70 / 6,300 / / 20,000
100 / 9,500 / / 20,000
150 / /15,800 / / 20,000
250 / 29,000 / / 20,000
400 / 50,000 / / 20,000
1000 / 130,000 / / 20,000


Mercury Vapor Light
Watts / Lumens
50 / 1,5800
100 / 4,200
175 / 7,9000
250 / 8,500
400 / 20,500
1000 / 50,000

MH Light
Watts / Lemuns
50 / 3,400 / / 20,000
70 / 5,500 / / 20,000
100 / 6,500 / / 20,000
150 / 13,300 / / 20,000
175 / 14,000 / / 20,000
250 / 15,000 / / 20,000
400 / 36,000 / / 20,000
1000 / 100,000 / / 20,000

Halo
100 / 1,300 / / / 2,000 
150 / 2,200 / / / 2,000 
300 / 5,000 / / / 2,000 
500 / 9,500 / / / 2,000 
1000 / 20,850 / / / 2,000 
1500 / 31,500 / / / 2,000


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f32/wtb-150-watt-hps-479601/

There's a picture showing how bright 4 150s are


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## TRG (Jun 30, 2012)

I used the same setup with 3 -500 halogens and I also tried to add a 300 in between and you really can't tell it's there next to the 500s. I felt the same way about hps then I seen them on a friends boat and changed my mind. I was sick of having to change bulbs every other trip and listening to my generator run wide open all night long. So I ordered 4 -150 hps from econolight NO CAPS and they put out so much more light and my generator only runs about half throttle or less. My only regret was not doing it sooner and if you really want them on your boat you'll figure out how to mount them.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Gnwdad said:


> Those will work using only four with a Honda EU2000i but are not the correct ones (HPF). You can order those then install the caps.I just got rid of 6 last night myself.



I've been searching econo-light for two days now, and Google the only HPS lights with the designation CWA/HPF I can find are 400 watt HPS Lights.


So four of those 150 would basically put my genny running wide open like the 3x 500 watt halogens did, because there is no capacitor built in which kind of sucks. Honda is quiet, but not wide open on a silent night by far.


Again I am no electrician, I've only ever seen one wiring diagram in my life and I don't know if I have the ability to "wire in" capacitors to the lights that I listed. How come they just don't have a light with the cap's built into them already??? 

It would be really nice to run the genny at a lower rpm, and where I live we have some pretty nasty water conditions unless your fishing an inlet where 3,500 other people are doing the same thing... pointless""" 

*Can anyone provide me a link to these say 150hps with caps already in them*? Hell I saw one guy had the caps zip tied to the lights but I do this commercially"one season so far" and easier and simpler is better.

I like the darker orange color of the hps and I do believe it would help me not drive over fish that I'm sure I have done in the past.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

I will take apart one of my lights and put some pics of it on here for you...don't be too intimidated by the wiring issues, I remember having the same fears but it all came together rather easily once I got someone to explain and demonstrate the process...I got the 150 HPS's off of econolight and the capacitors they needed from Capacitor King I think...the actual trick is going to be mounting them in a way that won't stress the boxes too much because it is rather weak material


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

I'd appreciate it Jham, 

So there are no 150's that come with the cws/hpf cap's inside them already made up from econo-light I take it.


Well this might change my mind on what to do, maybe run a bigger genny, and two of jerry's underwater 40w leds @ the bow at a 20 degree angle or something.

I appreciate everyone's responses!


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## drifterfisher (Oct 9, 2009)

jtrump said:


> http://www.e-conolight.com/shop-by-product/floods/small-floodlights/small-hid/e-hc1h151z.html
> 
> 
> So these are not the correct light as there is no "HPF" designation?


They would work if you installed caps.
These....http://www.e-conolight.com/outdoor-lighting/floodlight/e-hc2h151z.html will work because they have caps in them already.BTW I know for a fact a honda 2000 will run 6 of the lights you listed with caps installed at just above idle. I just picked up them and the genny a few nights ago.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

drifterfisher said:


> They would work if you installed caps.
> These....http://www.e-conolight.com/outdoor-lighting/floodlight/e-hc2h151z.html will work because they have caps in them already.BTW I know for a fact a honda 2000 will run 6 of the lights you listed with caps installed at just above idle. I just picked up them and the genny a few nights ago.


Sounds like you picked up GnwDads HPS


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jhamilton226 said:


> I will take apart one of my lights and put some pics of it on here for you...don't be too intimidated by the wiring issues, I remember having the same fears but it all came together rather easily once I got someone to explain and demonstrate the process...I got the 150 HPS's off of econolight and the capacitors they needed from Capacitor King I think...the actual trick is going to be mounting them in a way that won't stress the boxes too much because it is rather weak material


Like he said nothing too it 
The Caps.come with detailed wiring diagram. Get some 2 sided body moulding tape from auto parts store to hold the caps in and you good. I've been running mine like that for 3yrs with no problems.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Flounder9.75 said:


> Like he said nothing too it
> The Caps.come with detailed wiring diagram. Get some 2 sided body moulding tape from auto parts store to hold the caps in and you good. I've been running mine like that for 3yrs with no problems.



Hey flounder can you post me a picture of how you mounted you're lights to you're boat? It looks similiar in fashion to how the front of my boat is shaped. Trying to think of ideas on how to make the bracket work without having to make something to bolt the lights to and attaching that to the boat.

And would this be the cap that needs to be installed in each light?

http://capacitorking.com/14uf-330v-150w-hps-capacitor-aerovox-p.html

It doesn't really tell me on econolight what kind of bulb it comes with or ballast etc.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

jtrump said:


> Gnwdad said:
> 
> 
> > Those will work using only four with a Honda EU2000i but are not the correct ones (HPF). You can order those then install the caps.I just got rid of 6 last night myself.
> ...



Don't get watts and amps confused. 3x500 watt halogen = 1500 watts. 4x150 watt HPS = 600 watts. The Honda EU2000i at wide open throttle is 120 volts at 13.3 amps amps X volts = wattage (1596). Your generator can surge briefly to 2000 watts but there isn't any room to surge on amperage. Halogen lights draw the same amperage from the time they are fired until they are turned off. HPS lights draw a higher amperage while trying to start, once they warm up the amperage drops. I can't remember off the top of my head but think it is 3.4a on start up then continuously draws 1.2a. The caps store energy to help offset the surge in amperage while starting up. If the generator wasn't limited on amperage you could run 10 HPS 150's and still be under your continuous wattage. 

If you're not comfortable installing the capacitors, buy the lights, start 2 and allow them to completely warm up, then start the third and allow it to warm up, then start the fourth light. This is basically how those of us that started with the HPS back in 2008 did it before someone educated US on the use of capacitors. If I recall I was the first on here to switch from Halogens to HPS, my only regret was wasting the time, energy, and money for several years using the Halogens. I'm willing to help you if you're in the area.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

I forgot to add that with four 150's your generator will barley come off idle.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

^^ This is very informative, I understand the difference between watts and amps, however I was very unaware that HPS Only ran the 3.4amps when "heating up" and then dropping back down once fully warmed. If that's the case I really don't mind waiting to start a few of them. This is confirmed that they only draw 1.2amps after warm up?

However, a $10 dollar capacitor and two wires with some mounting tape doesn't sound that bad to just be able to fire them all up at once.

Side note/question: On the econo-light flood lamps are there switches like on halogens for on and off, or is it a plug and play type of deal I do not see a switch in the picture "cant see the back of the box" 

Also the wiring coming from the back of the yolk I notice you have the plugs sitting right up there, when I get going it tends to get pretty wet sometimes, and I prefer to run the extension cords aft to where the genny sits to avoid any water/moisture. Once wired do you silicone the "yolk" where the wiring runs into? I know my trolling motor like to throw water when I'm so shallow it has to have 1/4" of the blades sticking out of the water.

Unfortunately I am not local or I would love the help, hell If it was just wiring the caps I can figure out a way to make a bracket and mount them. I guess I'm going to have to figure out the caps as well, it would be nice to start them all at the same time... I plan to run 5 lights and not 6 because I need that little extra space on the front of the bow for my TM. but 5 150 hps's compared to 3 500 watt halogens I had one mounted center, and the other two on the sharp corners you can see in the pic facing out at an angle so much shadow in between.

We got a lot of stained water here and the more orange the light the better for penetration, white lights don't cut it here unless you're at the inlet with 500 other boats ;(


Also having the genny not running wide open all night would make my life MUCH MUCH more comfortable.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

there is no plug or switch with those lights. The advantage or reason for the plug so close to the fixture is if you're not floundering you can remove all wiring and ballast box. I actually like using a fender washer and silicone to close the original mounting point then use a weather tight connection for the cord to exit the light.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jtrump said:


> Hey flounder can you post me a picture of how you mounted you're lights to you're boat? It looks similiar in fashion to how the front of my boat is shaped. Trying to think of ideas on how to make the bracket work without having to make something to bolt the lights to and attaching that to the boat.
> 
> And would this be the cap that needs to be installed in each light?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure on the caps I just called capacitorking and tols him what I was doing and he sent me what I needed.
Here are how I mounted mine. I fabbed up some easily removeable brackets.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

Here's the inside of a 150 with a cap.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

No white paint in there what gives? I thought that was suppose to be the cat's meow!

Also looking at you're boat now the front railing is flat which is nice, mine is rounded.. I'm going to have to make up a mounting system but I have an idea on how to do that.

I will call capacitor king and see if that is the cap that I need. The wiring dose not look so bad really.


I do like you're brackets did you have them special made?



GNWDAD: I understand what you mean about removing everything if you're not floundering I had to do that before bass fishing, I just left the brackets for the Halo's attached. 


Final thoughts, 5 150's with cap and Honda 2000, is going to be way better for me then 3x 500 halo's?


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

well I made some calls, That light is exactly what I need, and the capacitor for capacitor king, it comes with the s55 bulb to match with the cap, so looking at $55/ light. Now to make brackets.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jtrump said:


> No white paint in there what gives? I thought that was suppose to be the cat's meow!
> 
> Also looking at you're boat now the front railing is flat which is nice, mine is rounded.. I'm going to have to make up a mounting system but I have an idea on how to do that.
> 
> ...


That's and old picture before they were painted. I had a pc of flat bar welded to my gunnel and then I tapped it so I could mount the pc of angle with the bolt in the pipe. Then the light bracket has a smaller pipe that slides in the pc that's mounted to the boat. Half turn of the bolt and the light comes off.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

Here's a couple more


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Very cool setup, especially for the convenience of being able to remove the bracket. I'm not proficient enough to weld aluminum but to save weight that would be really nice.

Are those the same 6x9 lights from econolight? and 1/4" aluminum. also I can't blow up the dern picture of how you mounted the lights to the bracket itself. It's dosent look like a bolt/washer/nut like I was thinking.

again thank you for the pictures and such


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jtrump said:


> Very cool setup, especially for the convenience of being able to remove the bracket. I'm not proficient enough to weld aluminum but to save weight that would be really nice.
> 
> Are those the same 6x9 lights from econolight? and 1/4" aluminum. also I can't blow up the dern picture of how you mounted the lights to the bracket itself. It's dosent look like a bolt/washer/nut like I was thinking.
> 
> again thank you for the pictures and such


Yes 6x9 150s and 1/4" Here a picture of some earlier light but they are mounted the same way. You need the spacer because the lenses covers are wider than the body.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

I really like you're current setup it's clean and very nice looking, not to mention "easy/sturdy"..

I wish I knew how to weld aluminum and fabricate things like that. my dad could replicate these for me in short fashion however he left town two days ago to do some contract work on the road.... dang it


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jtrump said:


> I really like you're current setup it's clean and very nice looking, not to mention "easy/sturdy"..
> 
> I wish I knew how to weld aluminum and fabricate things like that. my dad could replicate these for me in short fashion however he left town two days ago to do some contract work on the road.... dang it


I don't have the equip. to weld Alum either. I just have to cut it out and take it to someone that can weld alum.

I've got my console at a shop right now getting some welding done on it.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Seems like that's the "right" way to do it.. I was thinking of cutting out 3/4 " pressure treated ply wood to the shape of my bow and giving it 4-5" of depth and mounting the lights with bolts to that but... that would work for awhile but is kinda half a**ed.

I'm betting if I want 5 mounts/brackets done like that at a local shop around here it would cost me almost as much as the genny and lights lol.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jtrump said:


> Seems like that's the "right" way to do it.. I was thinking of cutting out 3/4 " pressure treated ply wood to the shape of my bow and giving it 4-5" of depth and mounting the lights with bolts to that but... that would work for awhile but is kinda half a**ed.
> 
> I'm betting if I want 5 mounts/brackets done like that at a local shop around here it would cost me almost as much as the genny and lights lol.


Don't use PT wood on anything on a Alum. Boat the chemicals in it will eat up the Alum. 
Here's the set up I that I had on my Polar Kraft ir was mad out of Alum. and just slide on the bow and was held on with bungee cords. What your seeing is the bottom of the bracket and how it was held on under the lip of the gunnel 

1/2 plywood with some bracing and paint will hold up pretty good if you don't leave it out in the weather


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

jtrump said:


> No white paint in there what gives? I thought that was suppose to be the cat's meow!
> 
> Also looking at you're boat now the front railing is flat which is nice, mine is rounded.. I'm going to have to make up a mounting system but I have an idea on how to do that.
> 
> ...



Five 150 HPS will walk the dog on 3 500 watt halogens


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Wish it was as simple as putting halogen's on.. 

Capacitor no biggie, lights not to expensive... having someone do all the mounting work/brackets welding etc.. ughhh on top of a 1,000$ genny


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Hey flounder, do you think you could provide me the dimensions of the bracket that your light is bolted to, not the base just the angled bracket itself and the angle it looks like a 45??? guessing

I figure if I cut the flatbar, and cut the brackets and do the prep work I'm just going to pay for the welding which might not be all that bad. Greatly appreciated.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

jtrump said:


> Hey flounder, do you think you could provide me the dimensions of the bracket that your light is bolted to, not the base just the angled bracket itself and the angle it looks like a 45??? guessing
> 
> I figure if I cut the flatbar, and cut the brackets and do the prep work I'm just going to pay for the welding which might not be all that bad. Greatly appreciated.



No doubt about it his looks great, if welding and fabrication is an issue build your brackets out of stainless. You can use thinner material and the ability to have it welded is more readily available.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Indeed, I've ordered my lights and capacitors. I'll try to make the brackets and then have someone else weld me a setup similar to flounder's but slightly different. A little less complicated but same general idea.

If he would so kindly provide me with the measurements for just his light bracket when he gets a chance I'll get to work.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

I was wrong I used 3/16 not 1/4 The arms on my brackets are a 30degrees and they are 9 1/4" apart.
I used 3/4" long spacer made from 1" alum. pipe so the light can rotate inside of the brackets. Also get some big SS washer for inside and outside of the light housing for the bolts that hold the light to the brackets.

Now if you want simple and your going with the plywood deck just get some 1 1/2 wide flat bar and bend it in to a U and bolt it to the plywood and your done.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

Here's how the bent U shaped alum brackets look.


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## jtrump (May 26, 2014)

Thank you for the info sir! I really appreciate it, and to everyone for all of the information.


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