# FYI Ethanol Fuel



## sosmarine (Sep 28, 2007)

<TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD class=contentheading width="100%"></TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%"> </TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD class=createdate vAlign=top>Thursday, 22 January 2009 11:42 </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>

A District Court judge in southern Florida recently denied a request to dismiss a lawsuit regarding the damage that gasoline blended with ethanol does to boat engines and fuel tanks.

The suit was filed last August by The Kopelowitz Ostrow law firm on behalf of clients Erick Kelesceny, John Egizi and Todd Jessup, all Florida residents. Defendants in the case are Exxon, Chevron, Conoco Phillips, BP and Shell. 

The suit alleges that the oil companies failed to warn boat owners that ethanol-blended gasoline may destroy fiberglass tanks and tends to absorb water and phase separate, which could cause damage to any boat, regardless of its fuel tank material.

The next step following this week?s ruling is pursuing certification to become a class-action lawsuit, according to a report in the Naples News.

If successful, the oil companies will be forced to place a warning label on pumps at all Florida gas stations. The plaintiffs also seek compensation for Florida boat owners whose boats have been damaged by the fuel.

"Denial of the motion is a significant step toward redressing the wrong perpetrated on Florida's boating population," said TKO managing partner Jeffrey Ostrow, in a statement. "Florida is the boating capital of the world, and it is reprehensible for oil companies to enjoy significant profits while knowingly paralyzing Florida's boaters."<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 125%">Click here for a release about the lawsuit.

Click here for the report in the Naples Daily News.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SPAN class=article_separator>


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## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

It'll be intresting to see the outcome here. Thanks for posting it.


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## mpmorr (Oct 3, 2007)

Stabil makes a special blend just for Ethanol mixed gas.


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## markm0369 (Oct 31, 2007)

This should absolutly be a requirement (that there is ethenol in the gas), how can someone deal with an issue if you don't know what you are dealing with ie: a bad tank of gas 20 miles out, as well as the solvent action of the ethenol fuels on tanks and filters, and calculating fuel burn. Better yet tell us where we can buy good gas


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## Top Shelf (Oct 8, 2007)

I have a 2006 whaler with a 150 verado. The tank is plastic. Should I stay away for fuel with ethanol


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## sosmarine (Sep 28, 2007)

> *Top Shelf (1/23/2009)*I have a 2006 whaler with a 150 verado. The tank is plastic. Should I stay away for fuel with ethanol


I say yes even if your tank is metal. It isn't just the tank. It also effects the fuel lines, fuel pump diaphragms and any other rubber parts that the Ethanol comes in contact with.If you are forced to use Ethanol I suggest using Marine Sta Bil all the time. I have a Kenner bay boat in the shop now, with a 115 Mercury that I just changed all the hoses on and O/H the fuel pump on for the second time. The hoses were all soft a came apart on the inside.


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

> *sosmarine (1/23/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Top Shelf (1/23/2009)*I have a 2006 whaler with a 150 verado. The tank is plastic. Should I stay away for fuel with ethanol
> ...


*Document your costs and save the damaged parts to join the class action should it prevail !!*


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## Pair-a-Dice (Jan 20, 2009)

If they win expect the cost of fuel to rise how much ever those little stickers cost...


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## sosmarine (Sep 28, 2007)

I will make sure the customer knows about the law suit and keeps his receipts.

The stickers will probably be required of the retailer, which by law in Florida, can only raise the price he pays for gas 12%.


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## markm0369 (Oct 31, 2007)

Sorry drinking last night, Iwas tryingto say there should absolutely be a requirement to tell consumers there is ethanol in the gas. It causes too many issues to not be disclosed


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## popedaddy (Jan 5, 2009)

I have a stainless steel tank in my boat and I put 100 gallons on that crap in my tank. Riccie and I went to St. Marks Florida for a 3 day weekend of diving and scalloping. Day 1 the boat ran fine. Day 2 the starboard engine would not idle smoothly. Day 3 we almost could not get the boat on the trailer. Both engines ran real rough. Got the boat home and had to clean the complete fuel system out. Had to rebuild the starboard carb. We drained 8 gallons of water and sludge and crap out of the fuel tank before we got down to what looked like decent fuel. I would not go near the stuff again.


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## recess (Oct 8, 2007)

> *markm0369 (1/22/2009)*This should absolutly be a requirement (that there is ethenol in the gas), how can someone deal with an issue if you don't know what you are dealing with ie: a bad tank of gas 20 miles out, as well as the solvent action of the ethenol fuels on tanks and filters, and calculating fuel burn. Better yet tell us where we can buy good gas


 Does anyone know what stations in Pensacola DOES NOT contain ethenol? If some one knows the answer post a list if it's not to much trouble.Thanks Gene


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## Cobia Captain (Jan 11, 2009)

The marina where I keep my boat has an additive called Valvtec which helps to counteract the ethanol effects. I also add Stabil treatment for ethanol. To dat (knock on wood) I haven't had any problems.


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## sosmarine (Sep 28, 2007)

> *Cobia Captain (1/28/2009)*The marina where I keep my boat has an additive called Valvtec which helps to counteract the ethanol effects. I also add Stabil treatment for ethanol. To dat (knock on wood) I haven't had any problems.


Are you using the (green) Marine Sta Bil or the regular pink stuff?


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## Cobia Captain (Jan 11, 2009)

The green, the one labeled ethanol treatment.


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## bcn31 (May 22, 2008)

> *markm0369 (1/23/2009)*Sorry drinking last night, Iwas tryingto say there should absolutely be a requirement to tell consumers there is ethanol in the gas. It causes too many issues to not be disclosed


Every gas station that Ihave beento that puts ethanol in there fuel has it labeled on the pump. Not only does it causes problems but it burns bad so you get worse gas mileage. I see that the ethanol is gonna cause problems like bio-diesel does.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

This is a Bertram tank that was cut open.














More pixs and info here.



FYI Rabo Marine is a top notch shop in Lindhurst, NY. I know him.



http://www.classicmako.com/forum/to...&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=Fiberglass,Fuel,Tank


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

> *popedaddy (1/24/2009)*I have a stainless steel tank in my boat and I put 100 gallons on that crap in my tank. Riccie and I went to St. Marks Florida for a 3 day weekend of diving and scalloping. Day 1 the boat ran fine. Day 2 the starboard engine would not idle smoothly. Day 3 we almost could not get the boat on the trailer. Both engines ran real rough. Got the boat home and had to clean the complete fuel system out. Had to rebuild the starboard carb. We drained 8 gallons of water and sludge and crap out of the fuel tank before we got down to what looked like decent fuel. I would not go near the stuff again.


Not trying to dismiss the perils of using fuel containing ETOH but if you drained 8 gals. of water from your tank....you have a different problem.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

It is nearly impossible and soon will be impossible to find gasoline with no ethanol in it. So prepare your boats to run on it cause it will not be going away.

Ethanol is a very good solvent and that isthe mainproblem. Older rubber parts are adversely effected, but newer rubber is available that is made for use with ethanol.

Since ethanol is such a great solvent, it does a really great job of breaking up the sludge and crud in the gas station tanks. As well as absorbing and suspending the water in those tanks. Allowing you to pump it all into your boat.

If you get current fuel from clean tanks at the gas station, the ethanol then cleans your tanks, breaks up the sludge and crud, absorbs water that has been sitting in the bottom of your tanks and allows it all to go downline to your engines.

Quality filters, non-fiberglass tanks and ethanol compatible rubber parts should be installed. Otherwise you will be chasing problems forever as ethanol in gas is here to stay.


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## Cobia Captain (Jan 11, 2009)

> *mekell (1/29/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *popedaddy (1/24/2009)*I have a stainless steel tank in my boat and I put 100 gallons on that crap in my tank. Riccie and I went to St. Marks Florida for a 3 day weekend of diving and scalloping. Day 1 the boat ran fine. Day 2 the starboard engine would not idle smoothly. Day 3 we almost could not get the boat on the trailer. Both engines ran real rough. Got the boat home and had to clean the complete fuel system out. Had to rebuild the starboard carb. We drained 8 gallons of water and sludge and crap out of the fuel tank before we got down to what looked like decent fuel. I would not go near the stuff again.
> ...




I had a water problem with my motor and there was 5 gallons of water pumped out of my tank. It was discovered that the fuel vent on the side of the boat was turned with the opening forward so that when water came over it, it went to the tank. The problem was resolved by putting a clamshell over the vent. I don't know if this is your problem or not but 8 gallons of water has to be a problem in addition to ethanol.


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## Fido (Oct 28, 2007)

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about ethanol and marine engines...

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/faq/faqanswer/14/19/1/answers.aspx


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## DAWGONIT (Jan 16, 2009)

It ate through the float bowl on my GENSET before moving back from VA Beach ;-(

The 10 micron filters, most manufacturers now have/sell, have been specifically designed to capture the water globules (phase separation) should it occur. The phase separation generally occurs after 21 days or so & one of the other things they were making a huge profit on up North was mobile fuel cleaning where they would pump your tank out, clean it and refill w/ the cleaned fuel-interesting what comes out of your tank from the years.

I used the Statron religiously and noticed no degradation on my F225s, except overall fuel economy w/ the ethanol.

Evan.


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