# What is an LY



## Lil Skeet

Is an LY a menhaden? Has anyone seen any schools before the storm?


----------



## captjimV.A.S

An ly other wise known as a (ailwise) or mossbunker also known as menhaden....AKA>latin BREVOORITA TYRANNUS!! When i was a kid growing up in NJ i worked in the bellford fish and seafood company and all i did all day was shovel these smelly begger's into a grinder%$#@%$ now i just use them for bait.They can weigh up to six pounds and are a best bait for big tuna.

Captjim..


----------



## Lil Skeet

Thank you Capt. Jim. Just moved down here from Jersey. This redfishin is a lot like striper fishin.

They fight almost identical. Do you charter a boat?


----------



## kingling

captain jim

not trying to be mean but you are completely wrong

this is a menhaden

<a href="http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii224/kingling95/?action=view&current=Menhaden.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii224/kingling95/Menhaden.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

this is an LY aka scaled sardine

<a href="http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii224/kingling95/?action=view&current=ScaledSardine.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii224/kingling95/ScaledSardine.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

all those names you said were for a menhaden an LY is a completly diffrent bait fish


----------



## Brant Peacher

Yep, Kingling is right. LY andMenhaden are totaly different. LY look more like a threadfinherring. They are also called a scaled sardine.


----------



## Shiznik

I know from being on the Okaloosa Island Pier fishing that there is one I think they call it a Leatherback. Anyway, kinda like a herring, but right behind the fin there is a barb that barely sticks out and it will make you sick. Wish I could find a pic of one.


----------



## SolarFlare

I have no science, but I net them both for bait.....LY's...and Menhadden are 2 different baits....i will get up to speed with FWC Marine Fisheries and report back.

see any bonefish lately?

oke


----------



## Capt. Bob Quarles

There arefour different species of fish that are commonly mis-identified as an LY.. the term LY is southern slang for alewife which is a northeast Atlantic fish that we don't even have around here..you should *never, ever use the term LY!* It's totally inaccurate,incorrect and thereis no species offish in the literature with that name.

1. There are scaled sardines with a deeper body and there are also spanish sardines that are thinner.... down in South Florida they call these white bait.. when you throw your net on them, the net looks white as you pull it up.. this is what most people incorrectly call "LY".

2. Juvenile menhaden are another species that are incorrectly identified. They have a dot on their side.

3. You also have threadfin herring, which are the easiest to id because they have a long threadfin coming off their dorsal fin. They also have a dot on their side.

All three are excellent baitfish, menhaden are the toughest to keep alive in your livewell.

Take a minute to look them up on fishbase.org or google the images, and you'll know all the species in a matter of minutes.


----------



## SolarFlare

Bob,

to me it looks like the little boy, probably your son is whsipering the facts on this subject into your ear, so it looks like it's coming from you?


----------



## need2fish

> *Shiznik (9/1/2008)*I know from being on the Okaloosa Island Pier fishing that there is one I think they call it a Leatherback. Anyway, kinda like a herring, but right behind the fin there is a barb that barely sticks out and it will make you sick. Wish I could find a pic of one.


I've heard those called crazy fish. Don't they have a yellow tail? Don't know about being sick but they hurt for a while if you get poked.


----------



## Capt. Kooooter

Lil skeet, menhaden were thick saturday near the sykes bridge, thousands of them.


----------



## kingling

> I've heard those called crazy fish. Don't they have a yellow tail? Don't know about being sick but they hurt for a while if you get poked.


ive seen people start throwing up on the pier after they get stung by a crazy fish

i dont ever mess with them for that reason


----------



## Baitcaster

> *Capt. Bob Quarles (9/1/2008)*There arefour different species of fish that are commonly mis-identified as an LY.. the term LY is southern slang for alewife which is a northeast Atlantic fish that we don't even have around here..you should *never, ever use the term LY!* It's totally inaccurate,incorrect and thereis no species offish in the literature with that name.
> 
> 1. There are scaled sardines with a deeper body and there are also spanish sardines that are thinner.... down in South Florida they call these white bait.. when you throw your net on them, the net looks white as you pull it up.. this is what most people incorrectly call "LY".
> 
> 2. Juvenile menhaden are another species that are incorrectly identified. They have a dot on their side.
> 
> 3. You also have threadfin herring, which are the easiest to id because they have a long threadfin coming off their dorsal fin. They also have a dot on their side.
> 
> All three are excellent baitfish, menhaden are the toughest to keep alive in your livewell.
> 
> Take a minute to look them up on fishbase.org or google the images, and you'll know all the species in a matter of minutes.


Oh my gosh ! I guess i won'tuse the names hardtail, skipjack and Ling either.


----------



## DukeDevil91

Menhaden:










Scaled Sardine ("LY"):










Threadfin Herring:










Moon fish (crazy fish):










Leather Jacket (Leather Jack / Leather Back? / Pain in my ass):


----------



## FSUhooker

> *DukeDevil91 *




This is a great post and I think it illustrates how these fish (at least the top two) could be easily mistaken. I know when I started out I had a hard time figuring out that some fish went by different several different names.


----------



## sc23

Oh my gosh ! I guess i won'tuse the names hardtail, skipjack and Ling either.



And never mention catching a dolphin within earshot of a non angler or turista. :nonono



I still have a time IDing all these bait fish.


----------



## SolarFlare

I contacted Marine Fisheries today...this would be our best guess of what is refferred to as an "LY" here. LY is slang for a "alewive" which is a northeren Atlantic bait, North of the Carolinas

<SPAN class=base>







<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>*Category:*</TD><TD vAlign=bottom>Saltwater Fish - Saltwater Fish Catalog</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>*Image Title:*</TD><TD vAlign=bottom>Herrings
Scaled Sardine</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR>


<SPAN class=basebold>Scaled Sardine - _Harengula jaguana_

*Family Clupeidae, HERRINGS*

*Description:* solid back with dark streaks, usually single small dark spot at upper edge of opercule and sometimes one at shoulder

*Where found:* North Gulf of Mexico to Brazil

*Size:* up to 18"

*Remarks:* commonly caught with strings of wire loops


----------



## Fishermon

so..which one is a GREEN BACK then?....

and yeah you are right those Leather Jacket yellow fins area pain in the ^%$#@..... it easy can ruin ya a solid hr. of fishing.


----------



## Death From Above

> *Fishermon (9/2/2008)*so..which one is a GREEN BACK then?....
> 
> and yeah you are right those Leather Jacket yellow fins area pain in the ^%$#@..... it easy can ruin ya a solid hr. of fishing.


The scaled sardine (LY) is the one also referred to as a "green back".

Menhaden are also referred to as "pogies" over in MS and LA


----------



## Death From Above

> *Capt. Bob Quarles (9/1/2008)*There arefour different species of fish that are commonly mis-identified as an LY.. the term LY is southern slang for alewife which is a northeast Atlantic fish that we don't even have around here..you should *never, ever use the term LY!* It's totally inaccurate,incorrect and thereis no species offish in the literature with that name.
> 
> Take a minute to look them up on fishbase.org or google the images, and you'll know all the species in a matter of minutes.


Does this also mean we shoud "*never, ever use the terms" LING, MINGO, BEELINER, WHITE SNAPPER, BLACK SNAPPER, SKIP JACK, WHITE TROUT, or BONITO"? *

*If you want to really get technical a "redfish" is actually a "red drum", but nobody calls it that.*


----------



## Game on15

Im just glad to know what the hell kinda fish that was that i have caught in the mullet net plenty of times and it was hard as hell to get out, so that is its only name "Leather Jacket"?


----------



## reelthrill

LY and menhaden in our area are two different fish. Menhaden have a black spot on them and are very oily and fishy. Menhaden are harder to keep alive in a livewell than LY's. Duke Devil is right on target with the pictures he posted.


----------



## reelfinatical

> *Death From Above (9/2/2008)**If you want to really get technical a "redfish" is actually a "red drum", but nobody calls it that.*


Wedo!! =) We rarely say redfish - it's a DRUM inour vocab... red drum & black drum.


----------



## nextstep

ling, cobia, lemon fish

dolphin, mahi mahi, dorado

ly, menhaden, spot, threadfin, scaled sardine

brent lane, bayou blvd, michigan ave, saufley field rd

:letsdrink

mingo, beeliner, vermillion


----------



## Glastronix

> brent lane, bayou blvd, michigan ave, saufley field rd


Don't forget Perry Ave....lol


----------



## konz

> *Game on15 (9/2/2008)*Im just glad to know what the hell kinda fish that was that i have caught in the mullet net plenty of times and it was hard as hell to get out, so that is its only name "Leather Jacket"?


Some people also refer to them as crazy fish


----------



## Fishermon

Konz isn't crazy fish pictured above? and in fact the leather jacket yellow tail (pictured below the crazy fish)is the one that has sitingers atits belly and sides....if it gets ya ..talk about pain....gotta watch out..correct me if Im wrong.


----------



## Capt. Bob Quarles

Excellent post of pictures, illustrations and facts from Dukedevil91 and Bay Pirate!

Bay Pirate: that is my son and he does know all the species of fish andbirds around here, we spend a lot of time outdoors on the water together...

Thanks guys for taking the time to post those pics, this string and this forum is an excellent tool to educate others who are genuinely interested in correctly identifying the fish we have in our local waters.

For anyone who is interested.....the illustration of the scaled sardine from Diane Rome Peeblesthat Bay Pirate posted is available from the FWC. I contacted them several years ago when I gave a seminar on fishidentification and they sent me a nice set of CD's in the mail for educational purposes.

Death From Above: relax, I was simply pointing out that "LY" is not a word, not a fish, and the alewife species are not even found in the Gulf of Mexico, the distribution and range of that species is on the Northeast Atlantic coast. That is why I said you should never, ever use that name....There is nothing wrong with the names skipjack or bonito.. I catch them and call them that all the time....I was simply pointing out that calling a scaled sardine an "LY" is like the equivalent of calling a flounder a halibut...doesn't make any sense...that's all. Call them whatever you like... I also like to call them snapper candy.. snapper love them!

Here is the link from FWRI to all the illustrations from Diane Peebles and the facts on the fish....watch out for those leatherjackets.. they hurt!

http://research.myfwc.com/gallery/view_category.asp?catid=1221&subcatid=5131&Page=2&MaxItems=27


----------



## Baitcaster




----------



## FenderBender

> *Glastronix (9/2/2008)*
> 
> 
> 
> brent lane, bayou blvd, michigan ave, saufley field rd
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget Perry Ave....lol
Click to expand...



you forgot Beverly Parkway!


----------



## pb&jellyfish

If I grew up hearing people in the area call a flounder a halibut, I would want to call it a halibut just because its slang; who cares if its totally inaccurate. Southern folk say a lot of stuff the wrong way. Speaking accurately is for yankees.

By the way, this post is good; now I can accurately call a fish the inaccurate name.


----------



## Bryan Bennett

I've always called an LY an LY, although through reading and stuff I have seen the same fish identified as a pilchard, scaled sardine, alewife, etc.I learned to catchthem on the LY ribbon, red ribbon stretched along a chain of rings made from single-strand wire. They bite sabikis, too.I know of two different kinds of "herring" that I've used for bait here locally, one being the threadfin, average size a little larger than an LY, slimier, greener on the back, and then a more slender herring that is elongated and not as football-shaped as the threadfin. They seem to school, together, so you'll catch them on the same sabiki rig or in the same throw of the castnet. Menhaden, or pogies, resemble all of these but have a bigger head and mouth, as mentioned slicker and oilier, but I've never caught one on a sabiki and don't believe they will bite one. What I have always called a crazy fish shows up in fish ID books as an "Atlantic Bumper", looks kind of like a moonfish and is also in the jackfish clan, but definitely a distinct fish. The bumper has the dreaded spines on the belly, but they make a pretty good kingfish bait. Will bite a sabiki. Leatherjackets remind me of what you might get if you crossed a Spanish mackerel with a member of the jack family. They have the spines, too, and bite a sabiki. An LY by any other name is still an LY, though...just my observations.


----------

