# USS Mass



## just add water (Jan 4, 2008)

I was just wondering why there is no warning flag or some marker right on the wreck. I know there is a bouy there but its away from the wreck and does not keep you away from hitting the hull. My first time out there I came fairly close to hitting it, and I have read on this forum about accidents out there. I think the Coast Guard could just attach a warning flag right the hull. Any thoughts??


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Drop the FWC/Coast Guard a suggestion for safe navigation reasons......


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## wld1985 (Oct 2, 2007)

David, I've always wondered the samething and wondered why a Diver has'nt attached a Bouy even cheap one to the stack that sticks out of the water at times..


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## ted-hurst (Oct 4, 2007)

Same with everyone else, but I'm not so worried about the one you can see it's the other one that's just below the surface I worry about.

Ted


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## Hydro Therapy 2 (Sep 11, 2008)

Crazy Right!!


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## Nitzey (Oct 9, 2007)

Well, I think the buoy was closer but a hurricane moved it. So, there is a question of maintenance, but the Coast Guard's budget has been cut, and so there you are. Frankly, I do not go there. I found myself getting caught up in the frenzy of catching bait, and then all of a sudden realized - it is right below us. That happened twice and so I just do not go there.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

The Coast Guard wont move the buoy from where it has been for many years because of the charts that it's located on. If they move it and someone that looks at a chart and assumes it's located correctly could go close to the relocated buoy and hit the large Mass that extends some hundred feet from end to end and find fault.


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## just add water (Jan 4, 2008)

I am going to write the Coast Guard a letter. Will post a follow up when I get a response.


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## DragonSlayer (Nov 2, 2007)

Those of us from herenunderstand the danger of the Mass... But newbies might find it too late. It's definitely a nav hazard.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

This brings back a can of worms post I made about the time my buddy and I hooked it while trolling and I thought it was a whale shark...........my fishing experience has improved since then. link:

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f29/whaleshark-caught-pass-72757/


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

just add water said:


> I was just wondering why there is no warning flag or some marker right on the wreck. I know there is a bouy there but its away from the wreck and does not keep you away from hitting the hull. My first time out there I came fairly close to hitting it, and I have read on this forum about accidents out there. I think the Coast Guard could just attach a warning flag right the hull. Any thoughts??



I love when this thread comes up, and it does every year and I say the same thing every time. The wreck is marked by a buoy that marks the controlling depth of the channel.. Learn how to read a freaking chart! And the excuse of well...um...um... how many boaters know how, or consult charts? The answer is probably almost none. The answer should be everyone. It is the same as driving without knowing how to read road signs. 
Here's another analogy for you. If you leave the marked highway to go off road in your 4x4 and get stuck in a mud pit is it the DOT's fault for not marking it? Navigating outside the marked channel is the same thing. Doing it at full speed while not knowing what the hell is under the water is reckless endangerment, I feel it is a criminal action. Hopefully, some doofuss doesn't kill his family in the process.
To all of you people who hit it, or almost hit, or almost almost hit, you are a HAZARD and do not belong on the water until you acquire the maturity and knowledge to navigate your vessel safely.
The ultimate sign of immaturity is blaming someone else for your mistakes. The wreck is marked and it is accurately plotted on the chart, the CG does not have the funding nor the resources (ie. they are overworked underpaid good folks) to buoy off every obstruction with fenders to keep retards like those mentioned above from killing themselves and their loved ones. For some reason the government treats boating like some God-given right, anyone who has a drivers license can operate their personal boat up to 200 tons. What a joke. Florida finally instituted a mandatory minimal boater safety course (you can take it online) for those born after January 1, 1988 Thank God, but that alone cannot take the place of common sense or prudence. Rant Off. :thumbdown:


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Diesel said:


> I love when this thread comes up, and it does every year and I say the same thing every time. The wreck is marked by a buoy that marks the controlling depth of the channel.. Learn how to read a freaking chart! And the excuse of well...um...um... how many boaters know how, or consult charts? The answer is probably almost none. The answer should be everyone. It is the same as driving without knowing how to read road signs.
> Here's another analogy for you. If you leave the marked highway to go off road in your 4x4 and get stuck in a mud pit is it the DOT's fault for not marking it? Navigating outside the marked channel is the same thing. Doing it at full speed while not knowing what the hell is under the water is reckless endangerment, I feel it is a criminal action. Hopefully, some doofuss doesn't kill his family in the process.
> To all of you people who hit it, or almost hit, or almost almost hit, you are a HAZARD and do not belong on the water until you acquire the maturity and knowledge to navigate your vessel safely.
> The ultimate sign of immaturity is blaming someone else for your mistakes. The wreck is marked and it is accurately plotted on the chart, the CG does not have the funding nor the resources (ie. they are overworked underpaid good folks) to buoy off every obstruction with fenders to keep retards like those mentioned above from killing themselves and their loved ones. For some reason the government treats boating like some God-given right, anyone who has a drivers license can operate their personal boat up to 200 tons. What a joke. Florida finally instituted a mandatory minimal boater safety course (you can take it online) for those born after January 1, 1988 Thank God, but that alone cannot take the place of common sense or prudence. Rant Off. :thumbdown:


 
Well obviously you are not in the majority on this. I guess you are the almighty water god. You make yourself sound like a prick, I dont give a shit how much you know about driving a boat or reading a chart it needs to be marked. Not to mention that you want to talk about immaturity...thats exactly how you sound to me.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

+10,000


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Well obviously you are not in the majority on this. I guess you are the almighty water god. You make yourself sound like a prick, I dont give a shit how much you know about driving a boat or reading a chart it needs to be marked. Not to mention that you want to talk about immaturity...thats exactly how you sound to me.



I don't give a flying fart how I come across to you or anyone else, and you can bet your sweet butt I am a prick when it comes to the safety of myself and others. CCC you can times it times One bagillion. What you fail to grasp is that the MASS is sunk where its at for a reason. The CG does not consider it navigable water, no amount of letter writing will change the navigational aids. In other words you shouldn't really be over there. The CG cannot afford to mark every millimeter of coastline. If you CHOOSE to take your boat out of the maintained waterway it is YOUR responsibility to know what you are getting yourself into. No different than if you took a Jeep into the Moab Desert on a camping trip. You are deliberately assuming more risk. To be absolutely safe, stay in the marked channel until you leave pilotage waters, if you hit something there, then write the CG. 

As far as being a Water God or knowing about driving boats, I don't have to know much, to know more than you, but unfortunately for you I know a lot. You are exactly the kind of doofuss I love to have respond to my posts. 

(Like ...hello...hey CG I'm a giant idiot who doesn't know there is a 500 foot battleship sunk near the pass, and even though you marked it on the chart, light list, and with buoy I'm still liable to hit it, please, please protect me from my own ignorant self, and if you don't I'm going to write a nasty letter.) F'in whatever.

If you hit the Mass and seriously injure or kill someone you will probably go to jail, at the very least receive a ticket or fine, and you can blubber incoherently all you want about the CG should have marked it better, but it won't make a damn bit of difference 'cause ignorance is no excuse.

One of my personal definitions of maturity is standing up for the right things for the right reasons, especially in cases where it is against the will of the majority. So if I am in the minority on this, I'm sure it's something my tender conscience can deal with. Personal responsibility is not a matter of choice.

Since I'm such a safety Nazi and as an olive branch to those I have not irreparably offended, I will note there is such a thing as a Privately Maintained Aid to Navigation. There is a process, do some research, the CG will add it to the Light List and Approach Charts. Get all PFF'ers involved to chip in. Done Deal, for the sake of your existing, one-day-to be, or someone else's children who are likely to be injured by your proud proclamation of willful ignorance I will be the first to chip in.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Diesel said:


> I don't give a flying fart how I come across to you or anyone else, and you can bet your sweet butt I am a prick when it comes to the safety of myself and others. CCC you can times it times One bagillion. What you fail to grasp is that the MASS is sunk where its at for a reason. The CG does not consider it navigable water, no amount of letter writing will change the navigational aids. In other words you shouldn't really be over there. The CG cannot afford to mark every millimeter of coastline. If you CHOOSE to take your boat out of the maintained waterway it is YOUR responsibility to know what you are getting yourself into. No different than if you took a Jeep into the Moab Desert on a camping trip. You are deliberately assuming more risk. To be absolutely safe, stay in the marked channel until you leave pilotage waters, if you hit something there, then write the CG.
> 
> As far as being a Water God or knowing about driving boats, I don't have to know much, to know more than you, but unfortunately for you I know a lot. You are exactly the kind of doofuss I love to have respond to my posts.
> 
> ...


You just keep proving my point...I dont even own a boat or drive one, but i do read this forum and think your first class....Keep typing I'm enjoying reading your nonsense.:thumbsup:.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> You just keep proving my point...I dont even own a boat or drive one, but i do read this forum and think your first class....Keep typing I'm enjoying reading your nonsense.:thumbsup:.




You of course are entitled to your opinion as am I. I willfully admitted to being a prick, and you willfully admitted to being an ignorant doofuss by offering opinions and then stating that you neither own nor drive a boat. :thumbsup: x infinity


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Diesel, would I be ignorant if I hit another car while changing lanes ? How about if I was talking to my wife and rear ended someone ? Point being both of those situations could have been avoided if I had been paying attention, but even the best driver makes mistakes, that is what makes us human and not perfect. Just an observation. Folks that live in glass houses and all....you know the rest.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

He just doesn't get it. You can spot his type from a mile away. The mouth tells it all.:thumbdown:


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## sureline (Oct 19, 2007)

I don't often get in debates , but if someone tells me their a Prick i guess they are and sounds proud of it.What the hell let him be a dick head. Opinions are like ass holes every ones got one:whistling:


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## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

I have been jumped on for asking a question in this forum before. "Every year some idiot asks the same question . . ." What the heck? I hear the DOT is hiring in customer service and are always looking for smiling faces!


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Its a forum for discussion and most ask because they simply dont know.With that said tell me why the guys question deserves an asshole answer. Most people answer and try to help...not to simply be a douche bag


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## FLbeachbum (Jul 17, 2008)

So back to the original post. I wonder why the CG doesnt mark the Mass better?? Someone could get hurt out there!


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Gotta agree with Diesel thought it could come across a different way..the wreck is marked on a chart. A prudent mariner will look at a chart if not sure where he/she is. Funny how people can find a car body in 200 feet of water but fail to check there GPS chart plotter on the way there.... I just figure anytime I'm west of the channel and North of the Mass Wreck bouy, I'd better be looking for the wreck.
The CG basically marks channels and the Army Corps of Engineers maintains the channels for commerce. Take away the port, Monsanto the Navy base and all the barge/ship traffic and there goes all your Aids to Navigation. They are not going to mark stuff for jet skis and smaller boats. 
Now as a suggestion, if the Charter Boat Assoc were to get behind it and have the Escambia County Marine Resources Division have some sort of PRIVATE aid establisheds and maintained by Escambia County, then you may have a fighting chance or mabey Escambia County has already tried, dunno.
I do like the mud hole off road analogy though, never thought of it that way!

Rock on

Billd


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

dockmaster said:


> Gotta agree with Diesel thought it could come across a different way..the wreck is marked on a chart. A prudent mariner will look at a chart if not sure where he/she is. Funny how people can find a car body in 200 feet of water but fail to check there GPS chart plotter on the way there.... I just figure anytime I'm west of the channel and North of the Mass Wreck bouy, I'd better be looking for the wreck.
> The CG basically marks channels and the Army Corps of Engineers maintains the channels for commerce. Take away the port, Monsanto the Navy base and all the barge/ship traffic and there goes all your Aids to Navigation. They are not going to mark stuff for jet skis and smaller boats.
> Now as a suggestion, if the Charter Boat Assoc were to get behind it and have the Escambia County Marine Resources Division have some sort of PRIVATE aid establisheds and maintained by Escambia County, then you may have a fighting chance or mabey Escambia County has already tried, dunno.
> I do like the mud hole off road analogy though, never thought of it that way!
> ...



FL Beachbum: the CG does not mark the Mass better because they do not have the budget to buoy off every obstruction that is not part of a navigable waterway. Plain and simple.

I do apologize for coming off prickish to those who might actually be receptive to the point I am trying to get across. The point is to know the area you are navigating, the tools are available, there is no excuse. To those that don't get it, in my usual pricklike fashion, it's your insurance deductible and your funeral. I hope just the former and not the latter. There are many many obstructions out there that will not be buoyed off or marked in any way, but nonetheless you must make yourself aware of their presence. My vehemence and disdain for this topic came out in my first and continued in my second post because people have already been injured out there, because of others ignorance. Not because of a lack of marking. The posts usually start something like "what the heck did I hit?"
I often forget that legitimate newcomers come on here asking legitimate questions and my aggravation for repetitive topics that seem like common sense to me makes the hair on my neck stand up. My only regret is that my response may turn off those that could and would use the information to make themselves safer. My response is intended for those that really should have known better.


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## Mike aka FishWerks (Oct 22, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Its a forum for discussion and most ask because they simply dont know.With that said tell me why the guys question deserves an asshole answer. Most people answer and try to help...not to simply be a douche bag


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey Diesel, positive contributions and friendly assistance go a long way...when you decide to get off the soap box give it a try. :thumbsup:


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Mike aka FishWerks said:


> WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Hey Diesel, positive contributions and friendly assistance go a long way...when you decide to get off the soap box give it a try. :thumbsup:



Sticks and stones, bro, sticks and stones. I brought it down a couple notches in my previous post if its not enough for you so be it. The validity of my point, and the numbers of yahoo's running around in boats remains unchanged. Never to fear; however, I'll be glad to pull you off the rocks anytime. The fact that this question is even posed (not that newcomers shouldn't feel free to post them without a'holes like me blasting them) much less agreed with shows the inadequate amount of understanding most boaters have about what they are doing on the water. A minimum amount of training should be required before being allowed to venture out. Sorry, that's the way I feel about it.

Please, Dockmaster don't go on record agreeing with anything I've said, as I would hate to see anyone's reputation sullied. I am working a long hitch and am probably a touch irritable.


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## Mike aka FishWerks (Oct 22, 2007)

Diesel said:


> Sticks and stones, bro, sticks and stones. I brought it down a couple notches in my previous post if its not enough for you so be it. The validity of my point, and the numbers of yahoo's running around in boats remains unchanged. Never to fear; however, I'll be glad to pull you off the rocks anytime. The fact that this question is even posed (not that newcomers shouldn't feel free to post them without a'holes like me blasting them) much less agreed with shows the inadequate amount of understanding most boaters have about what they are doing on the water. A minimum amount of training should be required before being allowed to venture out. Sorry, that's the way I feel about it.
> 
> Please, Dockmaster don't go on record agreeing with anything I've said, as I would hate to see anyone's reputation sullied. I am working a long hitch and am probably a touch irritable.



LOL, yea, asshole and douche bag work well. I didn't need to chime in, its clear to most. Have a good one.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Mike aka FishWerks said:


> LOL, yea, asshole and douche bag work well. I didn't need to chime in, its clear to most. Have a good one.


Hey man if the shoe fits. No you didn't need to chime in, and honestly probably neither did I. Someone with less emotional attachment to the subject should have been allowed to. What's unfortunate is that I came across wrong, but everything I said regarding the law, your obligations under it, and the way the CG maintains aids to navigation is 100% fact. I guess part of my problem is the backhanded insinuation that the CG is somehow remiss in their duties by not marking it better. It is marked. It's your obligation to understand how and why. If you disagree with that, well, you're wrong, plain and simple.


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## jplvr (Mar 7, 2011)

As a person who does own a boat and has been around boat since I was a kid, I do confess I'm not the most knowledgeable person in dealing with such a situation decribed here. I've left out of that pass before knowing the Mass. is there, but the topic is of interest to me as I don't know how to deal with it. No, I wouldn't think to get near it, especially now considering this thread, but seeing boats all over it previously, I have been inquisitive.

I probably do not possess the skills necessary to satisfy someone like Diesel, but I would certainly like to have them. That being said, nothing he has said in this thread gives anyone like me any guidance in gaining those skills. If I were to try visiting this wreck, I most certainly would consult every resource I could find to be assured of not being a victim of it, but even if I manage to navigate it safely, even in the worse conditions, I couldn't contribute that to anything Diesel has said here.

I'm a prick myself, but it's one thing to be a prick just to be a prick, but it's another thing entirely to be a prick while being helpful. If you want to act like something is so easily understandable, why not point out why it's so simple?

3 pages so far in this thread and besides "consult the charts," I have no good information available to learn from. I'll be living in the area soon and would love have such information more easily available.

I get it though. I see people doing things all the time which make me wonder what business that person has owning a boat. I make mistakes often though myself, never having any formal training behind the wheel of the boat and often wonder if someone isn't thinking the same thing when I make a mistake. I like learning from more knowledgeable people every time it's possible, but that hasn't happened in this thread.


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## capt'n slim (Feb 8, 2008)

The mass Is purty dangerous even to those of us who know where it is. A charter captain hit it a few years ago and he's been around longer than I've been alive to err is human. It comes up every now and then just like lead slingers and pier rats and the ever so popular "what if" and I pulled by the fwc thread. No need to fret drink another one.


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## Kenton (Nov 16, 2007)

Good question, to maybe help the "newbs":

Does anyone that dives around here have the ability to show the Mass on a map in reference to the marker and in which orientation it lies. If they could depict the stacks and the west/east, south/north orientation of the wreck i am sure it would help a few people who are uneducated about this wreck.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

jplvr said:


> As a person who does own a boat and has been around boat since I was a kid, I do confess I'm not the most knowledgeable person in dealing with such a situation decribed here. I've left out of that pass before knowing the Mass. is there, but the topic is of interest to me as I don't know how to deal with it. No, I wouldn't think to get near it, especially now considering this thread, but seeing boats all over it previously, I have been inquisitive.
> 
> I probably do not possess the skills necessary to satisfy someone like Diesel, but I would certainly like to have them. That being said, nothing he has said in this thread gives anyone like me any guidance in gaining those skills. If I were to try visiting this wreck, I most certainly would consult every resource I could find to be assured of not being a victim of it, but even if I manage to navigate it safely, even in the worse conditions, I couldn't contribute that to anything Diesel has said here.
> 
> ...


Wasn't being a prick just to be a prick, but if someone calls you out you might as well own it. The subject is close to my heart, and those that know me know I wear my emotions on my sleeve. Not always the best thing, but not something I think I would change. It was never a matter of skill, it's different for me, its my livelihood. It's a matter of responsibility. Being responsible for yourself and those who place themselves in your care. PM me I will give you Pub references with everything you need, most available for free on line. That offer extends to anyone who so desires.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

capt'n slim said:


> The mass Is purty dangerous even to those of us who know where it is. A charter captain hit it a few years ago and he's been around longer than I've been alive to err is human. It comes up every now and then just like lead slingers and pier rats and the ever so popular "what if" and I pulled by the fwc thread. No need to fret drink another one.



Apples and Oranges. The Entertainer hit the Mass. The Captain wasn't attending the helm, had the boat on autopilot. Sea Hunter just hit a rig doing the same thing. Mate was asleep, boat on autopilot.


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## jplvr (Mar 7, 2011)

Diesel said:


> Wasn't being a prick just to be a prick, but if someone calls you out you might as well own it. The subject is close to my heart, and those that know me know I wear my emotions on my sleeve. Not always the best thing, but not something I think I would change. It was never a matter of skill, it's different for me, its my livelihood. It's a matter of responsibility. Being responsible for yourself and those who place themselves in your care. PM me I will give you Pub references with everything you need, most available for free on line. That offer extends to anyone who so desires.


 Good to know and I'm bound to hit you up on that offer eventually. I probably should have re-read the thread before posting anyway to be sure of the timeline of the commotion in here.

From the posts in here, especially the one by the Capt just after my first, it doesn't seem like I'll be visiting the Mass anytime soon.


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

http://www.westfloridadiveclub.com/business_docs/Massachusetts_guide.pdf

Here is a map of the site from the NW Florida Dive Club. The depths are not obvious but it gives an idea of the major parts that could be sticking up.


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Diesel is right that we should know the Rules of the Road and the best way is to take the Coast Guard Auxillary class. I think that his idea for the private aid to navigation is a good idea and I would chip in if someone gets this going. 

Diesel -you remind me a lot of my younger brother. He has little patience to deal with folks. After a few beers, I can't even deal with him. I have to remind him that not all of us have the same background and we all have to start somewhere to learn stuff. The question that the person asked was legitimate if he/she is new to the area. I hope that you will channel your expertise so that the rest of us can benefit from your knowledge. I do appreciate that you made an attempt to reach out with the olive branch. Tight lines.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Olive branch my ass...He even states that his post was intended for the people that know better. If the original poster knew better he probably wouldnt have brought it up. This guy comes here seeking advice and that was a crappy way to give it. In Diesel's first post he starts out with comparing people to retards and doofus and discussing criminal action. I guess he drives around between channel markers all day. I look at it like this...If the Govt is going to sink an boat in a navigable waterway near a high traffic pass and it sticks up high enough to hit with a boat, then they need to mark it. Hell if they arent then why even mark anything, just let everyone fend for themselves. Diesel seems very intelligent to what he is talking about but obviously thinks your an idiot if you dont know as much as him..Maybe he will one day discuss something I am an expert on so I can tell him what a retard he is.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Olive branch my ass...He even states that his post was intended for the people that know better. If the original poster knew better he probably wouldnt have brought it up. This guy comes here seeking advice and that was a crappy way to give it. In Diesel's first post he starts out with comparing people to retards and doofus and discussing criminal action. I guess he drives around between channel markers all day. I look at it like this...If the Govt is going to sink an boat in a navigable waterway near a high traffic pass and it sticks up high enough to hit with a boat, then they need to mark it. Hell if they arent then why even mark anything, just let everyone fend for themselves. Diesel seems very intelligent to what he is talking about but obviously thinks your an idiot if you dont know as much as him..Maybe he will one day discuss something I am an expert on so I can tell him what a retard he is.


There's many things that I am uninformed about and you could educate me on. I plainly stated that I was wrong in my approach to a new boater asking a legitimate question, and no I do not travel around between channel markers all day. I have dove and caught bait on the Massachusetts many times. The point is that if you depart from the marked channel it is your responsibility to know what you are traveling over and how to do it safely. They (USCG) have provided a marked path for you to navigate the waterway safely, everything out of that is up to the individual. There are many other places that are most likely "navigable" in your mind that the CG does not consider as such, and would not have the resources to mark even if they wanted to. The Perdido River is a freaking minefield. 

Light List Volume 4 Gulf of Mexico: 
Light 4730- Massachusetts Wreck lighted Bell Buoy
Position: 30-17-41.119N 087-18-43.028W
Characteristics: Continuous Quick Flashing Red Range 3 miles
Stay to the east of this.

Excerpt from Coast Pilot 5
pg. 307, paragraph 236, Line 9

"...The wreck of the old Battleship Massachusetts on the S end of Caucus Shoal, W of the entrance, is visible but cannot be seen for any distance offshore; the wreck is marked with a lighted bell buoy..."


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Also, Done Deal think of it from my perspective, I make my living on the water. There are not many other professions that John Q. Public can participate in with basic basically no training or orientation whatsoever. I don't know what you do what you do for a living, but lets say you are a Fireman. You are out fighting a fire and some people off the street show up. They have been drinking, it's the Fourth after all. Grab some fire hoses start spraying each other down...maybe spray the fire some, start playing with the SCBA's, come back to the fire house to slide down the pole basically acting like your job is their personal playground. I think you get my meaning. The scary stuff I've seen makes me lose sleep. I believe the water is meant for all to enjoy, but to be enjoyed responsibly. The water is fraught with danger, and more vigilance is required to stay safe than on land. Later


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Use your own analogy...thats apples to oranges.The water is a public place and you chose to work their...comparing it to a firehouse that is not public is ridiculous. You sound just like over the road truckers...they think they own the interstate because they use it for their job. Wrong!


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

DD first beer is on me when I meet you ! : )


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

You got a deal


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Use your own analogy...thats apples to oranges.The water is a public place and you chose to work their...comparing it to a firehouse that is not public is ridiculous. You sound just like over the road truckers...they think they own the interstate because they use it for their job. Wrong!



I don't remember saying anything about owning the waterway, I specifically said everyone has right of use, but that gives noone the right to operate upon it uniformed or recklessly. Same goes for the interstate. I believe you missed the point entirely of the analogy. It was meant to be an extreme example. Of course no one is going to try to fight the fire, most people know innately that they they do not have the skills to fight one. The difference with boating is that anyone who can afford the price of admission is allowed to operate with no training. It is apparent that no matter what I say will I be able to get through to you, and that is ok too, I hope you are of the ones that knows what you are doing and are only responding to my earlier attitude That is probably my own fault because of how I came across. I only continue responding in hopes that I might reach some who are uninformed.


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## just add water (Jan 4, 2008)

Didn't know this post was such a hot topic!! I started it because I saw the Mass just a few months ago in my boat. I don't have as much experience as most of you but I have been learning as fast as I can. I only get to take my boat out maybe 10 times during the season. I just saw the hull of the ship sticking up and thought it should have a flag or some type of marker on it. I don't have maps, but I did buy a GPS unit and it takes you right over it with no warning that part of it sticks above the surface. For those that don't live in Pensacola and don't have local knowledge I saw an obvious dangerous situatiopn. I am writing a letter to the Coast Guard and asking them about a a danger flag or marker on it.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Use your own analogy...thats apples to oranges.The water is a public place and you chose to work their...comparing it to a firehouse that is not public is ridiculous. You sound just like over the road truckers...they think they own the interstate because they use it for their job. Wrong!



I hope a trucker reads this.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

SHunter said:


> Diesel is right that we should know the Rules of the Road and the best way is to take the Coast Guard Auxillary class. I think that his idea for the private aid to navigation is a good idea and I would chip in if someone gets this going.
> 
> Diesel -you remind me a lot of my younger brother. He has little patience to deal with folks. After a few beers, I can't even deal with him. I have to remind him that not all of us have the same background and we all have to start somewhere to learn stuff. The question that the person asked was legitimate if he/she is new to the area. I hope that you will channel your expertise so that the rest of us can benefit from your knowledge. I do appreciate that you made an attempt to reach out with the olive branch. Tight lines.



I'm not like this about everything, I feel about this the way a some people who have had someone hurt or killed by a drunk driver feel about drunk driving.

And Capt. Slim I did not mean in my response that the Mass is not dangerous it is very dangerous, and is to be avoided at all costs unless you are utilizing it intentionally


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Diesel said:


> I'm not like this about everything, I feel about this the way a some people who have had someone hurt or killed by a drunk driver feel about drunk driving.
> 
> And Capt. Slim I did not mean in my response that the Mass is not dangerous it is very dangerous, and is to be avoided at all costs unless you are utilizing it intentionally



OK, whatever you say.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

aroundthehorn said:


> OK, whatever you say.



ummm....alright


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Diesel said:


> I hope a trucker reads this.


Me too


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## Quiksilver409 (Jul 5, 2011)

Diesel sounds much like a young buck who is just trying to find his way in the world. Don't get me wrong he sounds like an ass who thinks he knows a lot about nothing. He has a point about knowing the rules of the road, but doesn't know anything about life in general. What a dick!! Grow up and be a man! You make All the 20somethings seem like real dumb asses


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## spear em (Oct 4, 2007)

ok, a hair verses hair match, maybe a looser leave town match, i know, a lumber jack match with pork chop cash and jimmy golden. that could settle this. and if that dont work out, austin idol could wrestle jerry stubbs for the south eastern title.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

Why do they put bells and lights on the bouy's marking the channels? I mean, hell, any mariner worth his salt ought to know exactly where the the bouys are based on his charts. If you run over a bouy then obviously you are a dumbass for not paying attention, right. 

I volunteer Diesel to teach a class on marine navigation. I especially want to attend on the day he demonstrates how to navigate in near coastal waters with a chart and a sextant at 20 knots in a small open fishing boat.:notworthy::notworthy:


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Play'N Hooky said:


> Why do they put bells and lights on the bouy's marking the channels? I mean, hell, any mariner worth his salt ought to know exactly where the the bouys are based on his charts. If you run over a bouy then obviously you are a dumbass for not paying attention, right.
> 
> I volunteer Diesel to teach a class on marine navigation. I especially want to attend on the day he demonstrates how to navigate in near coastal waters with a chart and a sextant at 20 knots in a small open fishing boat.:notworthy::notworthy:


I really don't know if this is a serious question or not but I'll try. Buoys (note not all are lit) have lights because most people don't have night vision and need lights to be able to see them. They also flash in different patterns (flashing, quick flashing, occulting etc.) to id and differentiate them and enable you to pick them out from background lights. They are not much use if you cannot see them or pick them out on radar. For that to be of any use you need to know what their characteristics are so you know what you are looking for. That information is on the chart or light list. You compare bearings to them using an azimuth ring to determine your position on a chart, and since you asked yeah, unless you've lost main propulsion, if you hit one you are pretty much a dumbass. And since you asked yeah, any mariner worth his salt should know what the aids to navigation are in his area of operations, and what they signify. People have crossed the Atlantic in 20 foot boats so the use of a sextant is possible...I personally have never done it. In near coastal waters it's probably a bit of overkill, as well. What you need is a course in terrestrial navigation, not celestial. I would be happy to share with you or anyone anything and everything I know. Even in my own boat, I charge Corona, sometime Killian's. What I am advocating is knowledge and planning. Any good vector or raster based chart-plotter will have all of this information. It's pretty simple really. Plot your waypoints and then examine your route for hazards. Most of them will even do this for you. Learn some landmarks and prominent buoys so you can verify your position visually, in other words know what you should be seeing along your route.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

spear em said:


> ok, a hair verses hair match, maybe a looser leave town match, i know, a lumber jack match with pork chop cash and jimmy golden. that could settle this. and if that dont work out, austin idol could wrestle jerry stubbs for the south eastern title.


No dice,I would lose any hair match hands down. Can we rochambeau, or arm wrestle? Maybe a peeing contest?


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Quiksilver409 said:


> Diesel sounds much like a young buck who is just trying to find his way in the world. Don't get me wrong he sounds like an ass who thinks he knows a lot about nothing. He has a point about knowing the rules of the road, but doesn't know anything about life in general. What a dick!! Grow up and be a man! You make All the 20somethings seem like real dumb asses


I'd like to believe youth was to to blame for my character flaws, but unfortunately it is not. In truth; though, I am not far from from my twenties. I hope you read all of my posts before coming to this conclusion. If you did read all of them and still feel this way, all is still well. I'd like to think I am not the only one who has let emotion get the better of their tongue, or in this case keyboard, but maybe I am. I understand plenty about life and even more about rules of the road. If you like we can meet and you can size me up in person. Not confrontational, just discussing life, fishing, the water in general. You pick the venue. I am perfectly willing to admit and own my mistakes, which is why I have not deleted any of my posts. 

I have said this several times, maybe not clearly enough, but this will probably be the last time. I wholeheartedly apologize for the tone of my earlier posts, and any and every derogatory comment I made towards any member of this forum. I do not apologize for the message contained within them. The truth in them is as solid as stone and washed in the blood of less careful men. Sorry, that's the way it is.


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## spear em (Oct 4, 2007)

Diesel said:


> No dice,I would lose any hair match hands down. Can we rochambeau, or arm wrestle? Maybe a peeing contest?


maybe cartman or kenny would. BEEFCAKE BEEFCAKE.


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## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Glad someone got the joke.


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