# Anchored, Adrift, Underway, Waking Way or...



## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

I love my new trolling motor. It holds me on a spot with a precision that I could never achieve using an anchor and rope.
Last Thursday I was anchored, with my trolling motor, in the Panama City pass (not in the traffic lane between the buoys), on top of a nice rock pile catching sheepshead. I was the first one there and had the place to myself for a couple hours. A small guide boat joined me on the spot but was drifting it because he didn't have a trolling motor. 
My buddy and I were not exactly killing the sheep but we were pulling them in at a good pace. The crew on the charter boat wasn't getting bit, the were getting hung on the bottom and were looking bored.
I could tell the guide was getting upset, probably because he was sucking at putting his people in the fish. His demeanor was getting meaner by the minute. Nothing was said by me or my buddy and we definitely didn't gloat about our solid bite but its hard to hide the rods all bowed up.
He kept getting closer and closer to me every time he repositioned to start a drift until he started his drifts 6-8 feet from me. Finally I asked him if he mind giving me a little space. The dude became unhinged and just started yelling. In-between cuss words I made out that I was doing him a great injustice by parking right on top of the best spot in the pass with my $2,000 anchor. We ignored him for the most part but I did tell his crew that they hired the wrong captain. 20 minutes after he left an FWC boat pulled along side. He said the guide had reported me as being confrontational and a general menace to society. 
We chatted for a while and chuckled about the incident. The FWC guy said that most of the guides drift the pass for sheep and tend to snuggle up on top of the rocks. I'm actually OK with closeness but not when there are only two boats in the whole pass area.

Here's my dilemma. The FWC guy said that if I'm using the trolling motor to hold my position, I am underway because I have a motor controlling the boat (he is flat wrong). The boats that are drifting are in fact the ones underway (just not making way). 
When using the trolling motor to anchor I am technically (my opinion) affixed to the bottom as good (actually better) than if I am using an anchor and rope.
I'm a 100 ton captain with a tow endorsement. I've been a captain for 30 years. I have a Japanese commercial grade boat license. I taught boating in Japan for 6 years. I have two world record fish to my credit. I know what I'm doing on the water and am fully versed in Colregs, CFR's and rules of the road. 

When the sheep spawn draws a tons of guides to the pass in the coming weeks, most will be drifting. I fully intend to use my trolling motor to stay on top of the fish. I figure that the guides that are worth a crap would use one as well. 
I think many of the guides drift it to allow the other charter boats to get in a shot at the fish. That's fine for them, they can go around me. 
Thoughts?


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

This has been covered on THT. You are using a motor, so you are underway.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

"This has been covered on THT. You are using a motor, so you are underway" 

Thanks for the input but what is the THT? I'll probably do a forehead smack when you tell me.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

So he's "underway" (and I'm not well versed on these rules) so what does that mean? Does he have to move to avoid a drifting boat? Asking for a friend.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

The Hull Truth, yep palm to face. So its on another forum, that makes it the law?


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Thehulltruth.com And it might be making way. Not sure, not a captain, I just play one on weekdays at the bar. I do know that it was talked about with the Coast Guard, not the FWC, giving the verdict.


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## CB541 (Jul 20, 2013)

I would throw a rope over with a small weight. Yep Im anchored.


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

CB541 said:


> I would throw a rope over with a small weight. Yep Im anchored.


Ha, I was thinking the same thing


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

I searched THT, can't find the referenced post. So if "e-anchored" and technically "underway" does the OP have to move out of a drifting boat's path?


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

If you are drifting with the current you are technically "underway".
If you are using your engine to facilitate momentum you are underway, making way,
If you are E anchored (I love that term), you are at a dead stop. You are affixed to the bottom.

A boat at anchor does not posses the ability to maneuver the same as a boat under power. E anchoring is the same as an actual anchor, only you could probably move your boat a little faster than if you had an anchor down.
A boat that is drifting (other than a vessel not under command (broke down)) needs to give way to a boat that is anchored. I would argue that e anchoring fits the definition of anchoring


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

e-anchoring... made up a new word I guess. Thanks CaptainPJ, what you say makes sense, but probably not the "law". Because e-anchors are new-fangled and rules are old. I like the idea of tossing out an "anchor" to be legit. Hey, if you don't actually hit bottom I guess it still counts. Now if my lottery tickets hit, I can afford an e-anchoring system!


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

subscribed. good info to know. just curious PJ - not arguing with your above post, but are the "e-anchor" definitions yours or USCG, FWC, what? I feel like one could argue that being e-anchored is not the same as being affixed to the bottom - touch of a button and you're moving.


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## Woody Forbs (Feb 14, 2018)

How powerful is your Trolling Motor?

What was the tide when you were fishing?

Evidently, Sheepshead aren't easily spooked.

All else being equal, I'd rather stay _outside_ of hailing distance.

They can't see me smirking, and I don't have to smell their cigarettes.


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## Addskewed (Jun 19, 2017)

I just want to know if I am wrong here. You were underway making way; he was underway making no way. But to what exceptional circumstance was he not able to maneuver his vessel? It seems like he choose to kill his propulsion up current to you in an inland navigable water way by choice and wasn't due to an exceptional circumstance. He wasn't limited to maneuverability due to the nature of his work. Commercial fish is nature of work but not for hire rec fishing. I would love for a maritime lawyer to chime in because I find this interesting

If an accident happened between to two vessels who would the law side with?


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## Addskewed (Jun 19, 2017)

Also to add my captain's instructor would have said you were making under way making way so you are at fault period. But that just doesn't make logical sense in all circumstances to me.


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## Deeplines (Sep 28, 2007)

Try this angle. Say you were on DP. Not for sure without a certificate if it would count though. If your are on DP you would be Restricted in your ability to maneuver.

Technically you both are underway. Neither were anchored or affixed to the shore.

I do know going upstream a river and cutting your motor off is not a good practice though. Surely the guide left his motor running while in neutral.

He could not use the "Not under command" because he could start his engine or it wasn't exceptional circumstances.

In short FWC is wrong. Only thing I see would be obstructing the channel. Sounds like you were up close to the rocks and outside the marked channel. 

Then you get into the whole jetty to jetty is the marked channel. Maybe so but in court you would win because it's not that he was outbound or inbound, he was fishing. As you probably know it's worded not to impede the channel, which you were not.

If you were than every boat should have gotten a ticket that was there.


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## Sc1006 (Apr 11, 2010)

RULE 2 Responsibility

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

Just saying....... You were not affixed to the bottom with ability to avoid collision and he also had ability to avoid collision. 

Now, not sure over there in FL, but here in LA it is against to law to impede or harass any person ingaged in fishing or hunting in a legal manner. If he was drifting into you or harassing you trying to make you move, LDWF would have ticketed him or worse revoked his license.


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## Sc1006 (Apr 11, 2010)

The argument could have been made that he was intentionally setting up to drift into you. But, you still had ability to avoid collision


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## gator75 (Aug 11, 2016)

What kind of inshore guide doesn't have an I pilot?


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## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

When many boats are drifting a crowded stretch of rock bottom outside the channel, what is the rule for tossing an anchor to set up over a sweet spot?
Is it a big deal for the other boats to maneuver around them?.... what’s the big deal? There is more than one fish down there...yes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

I can say this about it, if you're duck hunting with a trolling motor in the water, it's the exact same consequence as having your motor down and being underway. Not sure how it would differ while fishing.


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## Walton County (Aug 23, 2016)

CaptainPJ said:


> I love my new trolling motor. It holds me on a spot with a precision that I could never achieve using an anchor and rope.
> Last Thursday I was anchored, with my trolling motor, in the Panama City pass (not in the traffic lane between the buoys), on top of a nice rock pile catching sheepshead. I was the first one there and had the place to myself for a couple hours. A small guide boat joined me on the spot but was drifting it because he didn't have a trolling motor.
> My buddy and I were not exactly killing the sheep but we were pulling them in at a good pace. The crew on the charter boat wasn't getting bit, the were getting hung on the bottom and were looking bored.
> I could tell the guide was getting upset, probably because he was sucking at putting his people in the fish. His demeanor was getting meaner by the minute. Nothing was said by me or my buddy and we definitely didn't gloat about our solid bite but its hard to hide the rods all bowed up.
> ...


Off topic, but somewhat related.....I dont suppose the other boat was a carolina skiff with a tower, was it?


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## 60hertz (Oct 1, 2007)

iPilot or other GPS based trolling motor systems are technically an autopilot system. In other words, a computer is sensing movement and adjusting your position to stay on course - even if your course locked position it still has to adjust course due to current and wind influencing the position and direction of the boat.

An anchor is a mechanical device. There is no such thing as an e-anchor.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

60hertz said:


> An anchor is a mechanical device. There is no such thing as an e-anchor.


With the 21 century technology changing rapidly, there might well be an "e-anchor" category in the near future.


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## 60hertz (Oct 1, 2007)

Sea-r-cy said:


> With the 21 century technology changing rapidly, there might well be an "e-anchor" category in the near future.


Big difference between something “at anchor” and something locked at a position.

By definition an anchor is: a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to moor a vessel to the sea bottom.

Holding ones position with an anchor does not rely on ANY propulsion system, but, holding ones position with a spot lock device relies SOLELY on the propulsion system.

This is the exact reason while a vessel is, by definition, underway UNLESS it is anchored or moored.


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## fishnfool (Oct 2, 2007)

sounds to me like maybe he needs to put a $2k anchor on his boat then. With all the money he makes as a guide he should have no trouble with being state-of-the-art...right?


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

60hertz said:


> Big difference between something “at anchor” and something locked at a position.
> 
> By definition an anchor is: a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to moor a vessel to the sea bottom.
> 
> ...


I think what you're saying makes perfect sense. so in the OP's scenario - where both vessels would be underway, but the guide boat clearly being the vessel that is drifting into (or toward anyway) the OP, should the OP have to move? I hope not. but I think I may be wrong? I feel like it should be incumbent upon an operator to not let his vessel drift into another, regardless of whether the 2nd vessel is anchored or spot-locked. just my novice opinion.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

K-Bill said:


> subscribed. good info to know. just curious PJ - not arguing with your above post, but are the "e-anchor" definitions yours or USCG, FWC, what? I feel like one could argue that being e-anchored is not the same as being affixed to the bottom - touch of a button and you're moving.


That was my guessing. The rules for anchoring are vague in this respect. 
With the Trolling motor holding you on spot you are held fast in a highly accurate manner.
I would argue that it takes more than one touch and you are on your way. I recon to stop the anchor function, crank the engine then get the boat moving would take around thirty seconds.
Don't know if you saw the recent video of them guys getting run over while they were fishing in a channel. By the time they figured out something was wrong it would have been too late to do anything.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

hjorgan said:


> I searched THT, can't find the referenced post. So if "e-anchored" and technically "underway" does the OP have to move out of a drifting boat's path?


A boat drifting with a current is a boat that is under way.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

hjorgan said:


> e-anchoring... made up a new word I guess. Thanks CaptainPJ, what you say makes sense, but probably not the "law". Because e-anchors are new-fangled and rules are old. I like the idea of tossing out an "anchor" to be legit. Hey, if you don't actually hit bottom I guess it still counts. Now if my lottery tickets hit, I can afford an e-anchoring system!


Had I known how damn cool the E anchor is, I would have worked a lot harder at fitting one into my budget years ago. Do whatever you have to to get one, they are that good.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

Woody Forbs said:


> How powerful is your Trolling Motor?
> 
> What was the tide when you were fishing?
> 
> ...


I have an 80, 24 volt on a 19 foot bay boat. I was fishing a heavy incoming tide. The trolling motor holds me on spot all day. I have two deep cell group 24 batteries. I have yet to get down past a half charge. 
I was worried it would spook the fish. In the 45 foot deep channel it didn't seem to bother them. I've caught permit and pompano also while it running.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

how about do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
make way even if it is not necessarily required.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

Addskewed said:


> I just want to know if I am wrong here. You were underway making way; he was underway making no way. But to what exceptional circumstance was he not able to maneuver his vessel? It seems like he choose to kill his propulsion up current to you in an inland navigable water way by choice and wasn't due to an exceptional circumstance. He wasn't limited to maneuverability due to the nature of his work. Commercial fish is nature of work but not for hire rec fishing. I would love for a maritime lawyer to chime in because I find this interesting
> 
> If an accident happened between to two vessels who would the law side with?


That, my friend, is why I posed the problem. Too many people have too many differing opinions. The opinions that matters is the ones that are silent on this issue, the Coast Guard.

For the record my official take on it is that you need to do whatever is necessary to avoid a collision and confrontation. If you were the first one on the spot, other folks need to capitulate and leave you be. If I was the first one on spot and 20 boats showed up and started drifting I would probably move out of their way. If there were a handful of boats drifting when I showed up, I'd either drift or fish elsewhere.

No matter what, when you are in a boat you have the responsibility to keep watching what is going on around you and do what is necessary to avoid an accident. If you start a drift upstream of a boat that is E anchored you must take necessary action to avoid running into the other vessel. If you e anchor down stream from boats that are drifting you are equally obligated to take steps to avoid a collision (plus don't be a DICK).


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

gator75 said:


> What kind of inshore guide doesn't have an I pilot?


The kind I would not recommend.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

Walton County said:


> Off topic, but somewhat related.....I dont suppose the other boat was a carolina skiff with a tower, was it?


Yep, that was him. He might be a real nice guy and a super guide but that's not what he displayed at that opportunity. 
What really pissed me off was he got along side of me and pointed his bow strait at my boat and came within 4 feet of me while making verbal threats.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

60hertz said:


> Big difference between something “at anchor” and something locked at a position.
> 
> By definition an anchor is: a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to moor a vessel to the sea bottom.
> 
> ...


I think the term "affixed to the bottom is used" With Minn, I am E affixed am I not?


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Cap , no, no more than a vessel using engines to hold a position is anchored. A trolling motor is EXACTLY that. A motor...your vessel must be PHYSICALLY affixed to the bottom to be anchored.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

kingfish501 said:


> Cap , no, no more than a vessel using engines to hold a position is anchored. A trolling motor is EXACTLY that. A motor...your vessel must be PHYSICALLY affixed to the bottom to be anchored.


According to who?


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## Rickpcfl (Nov 12, 2013)

Walton County said:


> Off topic, but somewhat related.....I dont suppose the other boat was a carolina skiff with a tower, was it?


That sounds like a boat that trolled right through the middle of 5 boats anchored over a spot (Panama City pass) several years ago fishing for sheepshead. He did it deliberately and told people they shouldn't be there. 

I may be misremembering.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

Rickpcfl said:


> That sounds like a boat that trolled right through the middle of 5 boats anchored over a spot (Panama City pass) several years ago fishing for sheepshead. He did it deliberately and told people they shouldn't be there.
> 
> I may be misremembering.


The difference between liberal progressives and conservatives is;
Conservatives generally see fault in themselves and try to become better people by working on those faults, Liberals see faults in everyone else and try to dictate/change other peoples behavior. Which group of people did that gentleman fall into?


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## murfpcola (Aug 28, 2012)

CaptainPJ said:


> The difference between liberal progressives and conservatives is;
> Conservatives generally see fault in themselves and try to become better people by working on those faults, Liberals see faults in everyone else and try to dictate/change other peoples behavior. Which group of people did that gentleman fall into?


Sounds like you are a liberal ptogressive to me, but I am no super Kung fu record holding captain.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

murfpcola said:


> Sounds like you are a liberal ptogressive to me, but I am no super Kung fu record holding captain.


Easy there brother. You missed my point. The charter dude was being an asshat about something many boaters are confused about. His attitude was that he was right and everyone else better get in line. 
Some people suck the fun out of a good conversation, don't be a dick. I had to lay some creds out in order to cement my standing as someone who actually knows a little about boating. Once again don't be a dick.


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## Sc1006 (Apr 11, 2010)

You were holding a position by use of propulsion. A drill ship does the same. But, it IS affixed to the bottom most of the time.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

If you aren't tied up or anchored, you are underway. If your trolling motor is keeping you in position in a current you are making way. You have speed through the water.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Addskewed said:


> I just want to know if I am wrong here. You were underway making way; he was underway making no way. But to what exceptional circumstance was he not able to maneuver his vessel? It seems like he choose to kill his propulsion up current to you in an inland navigable water way by choice and wasn't due to an exceptional circumstance. He wasn't limited to maneuverability due to the nature of his work. Commercial fish is nature of work but not for hire rec fishing. I would love for a maritime lawyer to chime in because I find this interesting
> 
> If an accident happened between to two vessels who would the law side with?


 The coast guard would say both operators were at fault. Both vessels were under command and no one made an attempt to avoid the collision. Using spot lock to fish is in no way restricting the vessels ability to maneuver. If you see an asshole drifting right at you, you need to get out of the way if at all possible. That includes firing up your outboard to motor off position with your trolling motor still spot locked.


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## CaptainPJ (Dec 22, 2016)

K-Bill said:


> I think what you're saying makes perfect sense. so in the OP's scenario - where both vessels would be underway, but the guide boat clearly being the vessel that is drifting into (or toward anyway) the OP, should the OP have to move? I hope not. but I think I may be wrong? I feel like it should be incumbent upon an operator to not let his vessel drift into another, regardless of whether the 2nd vessel is anchored or spot-locked. just my novice opinion.



All the answers on this post prove my point. This is something that the Coast Guard needs to determine. There are several opinions on the subject, all have merit. Until then K-Bill hit the nail. Don't assume you have the right of way and it should be incumbent upon an operator to not let his vessel drift into another, regardless of whether the 2nd vessel is anchored or spot-locked. Likewise if you are on spot lock don't assume the boat drifting toward you is going to do the right thing and move so they avoid an incident.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

MaxP said:


> The coast guard would say both operators were at fault. Both vessels were under command and no one made an attempt to avoid the collision. Using spot lock to fish is in no way restricting the vessels ability to maneuver. If you see an asshole drifting right at you, you need to get out of the way if at all possible. That includes firing up your outboard to motor off position with your trolling motor still spot locked.




Ohh ok I gotcha, so when I see 10 boats at a reef/wreck and I am drifting towards them, it is their responsibility to move out of my way?

We can talk semantics till the cows come home but lets use common sense/courtesy a little, if I am drifting into someone that in a fixed position with an anchor, I-pilot, 2 people with oars watching a GPS keeping position, what ever it may be, just move around them. GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE!!!!!!!


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## Sc1006 (Apr 11, 2010)

CaptainPJ said:


> All the answers on this post prove my point. This is something that the Coast Guard needs to determine. There are several opinions on the subject, all have merit. Until then K-Bill hit the nail. Don't assume you have the right of way and it should be incumbent upon an operator to not let his vessel drift into another, regardless of whether the 2nd vessel is anchored or spot-locked. Likewise if you are on spot lock don't assume the boat drifting toward you is going to do the right thing and move so they avoid an incident.


The USCG has determined this. Any vessel underway should take necessary action to avoid collision. It's written in the regs. 
(i) The word underway means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.
I can copy and paste more. It would be best if you were to read everything yourself. If you have any questions, go to your nearest USCG office and ask for clarification.


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## Turntwo62 (Mar 18, 2017)

Boat-Dude said:


> MaxP said:
> 
> 
> > The coast guard would say both operators were at fault. Both vessels were under command and no one made an attempt to avoid the collision. Using spot lock to fish is in no way restricting the vessels ability to maneuver. If you see an asshole drifting right at you, you need to get out of the way if at all possible. That includes firing up your outboard to motor off position with your trolling motor still spot locked.
> ...


h

Well, that makes too much sense


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Boat-Dude said:


> MaxP said:
> 
> 
> > The coast guard would say both operators were at fault. Both vessels were under command and no one made an attempt to avoid the collision. Using spot lock to fish is in no way restricting the vessels ability to maneuver. If you see an asshole drifting right at you, you need to get out of the way if at all possible. That includes firing up your outboard to motor off position with your trolling motor still spot locked.
> ...


 You can complain all you want, but the USCG won't care who thinks someone else should be more courteous. If you own a boat, it is your number one obligation to avoid collision. I'm not saying you should drift into anyone or be rude on the water. If you can avoid an accident no matter how much of an idiot, someone who just got boat, is then you need to do so according to the law.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

MaxP said:


> You can complain all you want, but the USCG won't care who thinks someone else should be more courteous. *If you own a boat, it is your number one obligation to avoid collision.*


I am not complaining, your statement is common sense, why do you need to state the obvious. You are asking the person that is spot locked to move because someone is drifting up to you, that is utter BS, I don't believe that at all because it goes against basic logic not to mention common courtesy. 

So they guy drifting doesn't have any regard on where he is going but the guy that is spot locked needs to move.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Boat-Dude said:


> MaxP said:
> 
> 
> > You can complain all you want, but the USCG won't care who thinks someone else should be more courteous. *If you own a boat, it is your number one obligation to avoid collision.*
> ...


I'm saying the guy spot locked is under the same obligation as the guy drift fishing to avoid each other. Pretty simple if you take your emotions out of the equation.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

All boat owners should own a copy of this book. You can even get an e copy on Amazon.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

MaxP said:


> I'm saying the guy spot locked is under the same obligation as the guy drift fishing to avoid each other. Pretty simple if you take your emotions out of the equation.



Common sense and logic doesn't need emotion, nice troll though. You keep stating the obvious like we all don't understand what you are saying. The OP made a point I was giving my opinion on it, I don't believe in the premise that spot locked means you are under way, spot locked means stationary, drifting means movement. I am willing to bet the USCG hasn't made any provisions to spot locking equipment (I could be wrong). We just disagree. 

Good day.


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## murfpcola (Aug 28, 2012)

MaxP said:


> You can complain all you want, but the USCG won't care who thinks someone else should be more courteous. If you own a boat, it is your number one obligation to avoid collision. I'm not saying you should drift into anyone or be rude on the water. If you can avoid an accident no matter how much of an idiot, someone who just got boat, is then you need to do so according to the law.


 But I was E-anchored, don't you understand? I was E-anchored and the coast guard needs to clarify this.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I was out with a captain E-fishing one time and tagged some epic blue marlin from my couch.


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## Sc1006 (Apr 11, 2010)

Boat-Dude said:


> Common sense and logic doesn't need emotion, nice troll though. You keep stating the obvious like we all don't understand what you are saying. The OP made a point I was giving my opinion on it, I don't believe in the premise that spot locked means you are under way, spot locked means stationary, drifting means movement. I am willing to bet the USCG hasn't made any provisions to spot locking equipment (I could be wrong). We just disagree.
> 
> Good day.


The USCG HAS MADE provisions for this. Spot locked, e anchored, how ever you want to say it ..... You are not anchored. You are by definition( which is written in the above book) UNDERWAY. 
The OP was questioning the legal aspect of his situation, not the "common sense" or "common courtesy " aspect of it. 
We don't disagree. You disagree with what is written in 33 CFR 83. Which is what will be used to determine fault. And there are cases where both operators were deemed at fault. 
I sympathize with him on his situation he had. It would have helped his case if he would have gotten a video of the other vessels actions. And when the FWC showed up, he could have proved he was being harassed.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

MrFish said:


> I was out with a captain E-fishing one time and tagged some epic blue marlin from my couch.


Was the name of the boat Sega Dreamcast - Marine Fishing? I chartered that one many times.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=NavRulesAmalgamated#rule13



> *Rule 13 - Overtaking*
> 
> (a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, *any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.*
> 
> ...



So if one vessel is stationary and you are overtaking that vessel it is your responsibility to move.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

MaxP said:


> Was the name of the boat Sega Dreamcast - Marine Fishing? I chartered that one many times.


A Freeman named Clairebelle.:whistling:


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Boat-Dude said:


> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=NavRulesAmalgamated#rule13
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are only overtaking another vessel if you are coming up on her stern. Doesn't matter if you are maintaining position through any manner of propulsion. So that rule most likely wouldn't apply to a spot locked boat with another vessel drifting towards her bow. The spot lock will keep you bow into the forces that make another vessel drift towards you.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

MaxP said:


> You are only overtaking another vessel if you are coming up on her stern. Doesn't matter if you are maintaining position through any manner of propulsion. So that rule most likely wouldn't apply to a spot locked boat with another vessel drifting towards her bow. The spot lock will keep you bow into the forces that make another vessel drift towards you.



ok



> *Rule 14 - Head-on Situation*
> 
> (a) ‹‹ _Unless otherwise agreed_ ›› when two power-driven vessels are meeting on reciprocal or nearly reciprocal courses so as to involve risk of collision each shall alter her course to starboard so that each shall pass on the port side of the other.
> 
> ...


OR 



> *Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels*
> 
> Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
> 
> ...



Common sense always prevails.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Nevermind Rule 2, 7, or 8.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't have to deal with these problems. I don't fish near people. Only time I'm around other boats is the islands or Pirate's Cove. Mmmmmmm. Burgers and onion rings. They got a new pizza oven, by the way.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

The rule you posted says if you don't make passing arrangements both vessels need to alter course to starboard to avoid collision. Are you even reading what you post?


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

You can argue till the cows come home but if one vessel is stationary or has the appearance of being stationary and you are drifting towards that vessel is is up to you to avoid such vessel especially if they are fishing. 

I concede that all vessels are underway. Sorry Max I win you owe me a steak dinner.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether such a situation exists she shall assume that it does exist and act accordingly

This means move your spot locked boat because some moron is about to hit you.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

MaxP said:


> (c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether such a situation exists she shall assume that it does exist and act accordingly
> 
> This means move your spot locked boat because some moron is about to hit you.



That is for the vessel that is overtaking another IN a collision. You have to make arrangements to alter course to avoid the vessel YOU are overtaking. Not to mention the vessel is fishing.


I like mine medium rare with twice baked potato. Thx


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

(d) The term vessel engaged in fishing means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, 
trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not 
include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do 
not restrict maneuverability.

You do not count as a fishing vessel under the CFRs. You are not commercially fishing and are not restricted in manueverability.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

boat-dude said:


> maxp said:
> 
> 
> > (c) when a vessel is in any doubt as to whether such a situation exists she shall assume that it does exist and act accordingly
> ...


you aren't overtaking you are meeting another boat head on.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

With extra sour cream! Dude you lost, thx for playing.

I say you should do this to backup your assertions.

Launch your boat.
Find a reef/wreck with 5 or more boats on it.
Then drift into such 5 or more boats.
Then report back to us on how that went.

Good luck.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Rule 2 
Responsibility 
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master 
or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these 
Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary 
practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case. 
(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to 
all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, 
including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure 
from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

Mic Drop...


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

Boat-Dude said:


> With extra sour cream! Dude you lost, thx for playing.
> 
> I say you should do this to backup your assertions.
> 
> ...


You have us rolling in laughter on the bridge here at work. Thanks for providing us with your alternate factual interpretation of the CFRs. We have a coastie coming out next week. I'll show him the thread.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

You are welcome.


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## MaxP (Jan 31, 2008)

boat-dude said:


> someone drifting @ 2.1 mph into a spot locked boat does not constitute _immediate danger_. What it means is the person drifting is a asshat especially sense he didn't catch any sheephead, then for the cherry on to he whined to the fwc officer.


hahahaha


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## Big Red (Oct 1, 2007)

Somehow this discussion reminds me of the fable/anecdote about the Aircraft Carrier/Battleship & the Lighthouse.

In the end, everyone involved has something to loose.


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## Sc1006 (Apr 11, 2010)

Boat-Dude said:


> ok
> 
> OR
> 
> ...


You need to learn what these terms mean:
Underway
Making Way
Not Making Way
Anchored. 

Common sense does prevail. I am fishing on spot lock. Some ass hat is about to drift into my boat. 
I move over with a push of a button. As he drifts by, I move right back.

And this may really blow your mind. If you throw your anchor out, but it is not set into the bottom and you continue to drift........ Guess what? You are indeed UNDERWAY.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

If I’m ever in this situation, I will remove all clothes and continue fishing.
Maybe just a little sun block in vulnerable spots.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

jlw1972 said:


> If I’m ever in this situation, I will remove all clothes and continue fishing.
> Maybe just a little sun block in vulnerable spots.


Can't burn the franks and beans. Some reason they are impervious to sun light. Go figure.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

Sc1006 said:


> You need to learn what these terms mean:
> Underway
> Making Way
> Not Making Way
> ...



Ok.


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

hard to tell when a boat is E ANCHORED aint it?


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)




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