# More ARS days in federal waters



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Grease for the squeaky wheel?*

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=10926

LouisianaSportsman.com has learned negotiations are currently ongoing between the U.S. Department of Commerce, the U.S. House of Representatives and the five Gulf states to potentially expand the just-concluded three-day 2017 recreational red snapper season in federal waters.

In a letter obtained by LouisianaSportsman.com dated May 23, House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.), Rep. Garret Graves (R-Baton Rouge) and 11 other congressmen from Gulf states asked an official with the Commerce Department in Washington, D.C. for more fishing days for recreational anglers.

The three-day federal season previously announced by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration opened on June 1 and ended on June 3.

“We strongly urge you to use any authority at your disposal to expand the 2017 private recreational Red Snapper season in federal waters to include Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays in June, July and August, as well as July 3 and July 4, consistent with the current health and overall sustainability of the stock,” they wrote to Earl Comstock, director of the Office of Policy and Strategic Planning. “While this proposal does not address the longer term issues, we hope this proposed solution for the 2017 season will be something you will strongly consider.”

According to an unnamed source with knowledge of the negotiations, all five Gulf states’ wildlife and fisheries commissions must unanimously agree on how the season expansion would work. 



Several different plans are being hammered out and could come from the congressmens' request, the source said, including: 

1. A 27-day season in federal and state waters starting June 17 and ending on Sept. 4 with fishing allowed on Saturdays and Sundays, as well as Monday, July 3 and Tuesday, July 4. Recreational red snapper fishing in both state and federal waters would be closed under this scenario Monday through Friday each week this summer.

2. A 39-day season in federal and state waters starting Friday, June 16 and ending on Sept. 4, with fishing allowed on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, as well as Monday, July 3 and Tuesday, July 4. Under this scenario, recreational red snapper fishing in both state and federal waters would be closed this summer Monday through Thursday of each week.

3. With a 27-day season this summer, fall fishing in state waters could potentially happen. If the 39-day option is ultimately selected, there would be no state red snapper season in the fall. 

Louisiana’s Wildlife and Fisheries Commission meets this Thursday, June 8 at 9:30 a.m. in Baton Rouge. Item No. 15 on their agenda released Monday afternoon reads: “To discuss possible federal action to address historically short federal waters red snapper season.”



According to the source, the other four Gulf states' commissions are likely to discuss this in the next week.


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

Hmm... hear through the grapevine earlier something was going on. But wouldn't this require the agreement of all the involved gulf states? That could be tough!?


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

:thumbup: Many of us have been fighting hard & long to take back our fishery from a corrupt, out of control, federal agency, NOAA. 
Finally the collective voices of the American people are being heard. A six month gag grouper season in both 2016, and 2017, is a good start, but only a start. 

Next up! American red snapper:

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) will have a special meeting at 2 p.m. EDT Friday, June 9, to discuss the Gulf red snapper season for private recreational anglers in state and federal waters. Recent discussion between the U.S. Department of Commerce and the Gulf states indicate that there may be a way to add a substantial number of additional red snapper fishing days in federal waters this summer of 2017.

Collectively the voice of the American people is the strongest force ever known to mankind. United, and ready to fight, we can, and will, dominate. 
Taking back what has been systematically stolen from the American fishermen will require a united effort. 
I personally witnessed, and was part of, the demise of the huge king fish schools of the sixties. It was nothing to catch 100 a day 3 miles off Clearwater Beach. We thought the schools were so big that nothing could destroy them. WRONG! We wiped them out.
We realize that strict, very strict, regulations are essential to ensure a healthy fishery for decades to come. However, we must insist that these regulations are based on real up-to-date science. Bob Harbison


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

The feds want us to give up state water days. Personally, I'd tell them to go pound sand.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Most Florida state waters hold NO American red snapper. What is best for the majority must be the most important consideration.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Harbison said:


> Most Florida state waters hold NO American red snapper. What is best for the majority must be the most important consideration.


And the majority of recreational snapper fishermen are in the northern gulf because you have to run so far in the other part of the state to get to them.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Very true! So, to equal things out, "other parts of the state" should have a much loner season.


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## rscrubberrn (Apr 24, 2015)

There are plenty of legal fish in the state waters of NWF including trigger and grouper, the problem is if the same limitations are not executed throughout the entire gulf coast both private and commercial then why have regulations at all. The coast of LA has very liberal limits, we allow our charter boats very liberal limits so why should the private guys get screwed.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

All should expect, and have, equal chances. The seasons should reflect equality.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Harbison said:


> Most Florida state waters hold NO American red snapper. What is best for the majority must be the most important consideration.


Sounds like you're following the EDF's lead. They are trying to divide us. Keep pushing for state control. Piss on there offer.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Harbison said:


> All should expect, and have, equal chances. The seasons should reflect equality.


That's what the head boats and the commercials are saying. That they are fishing for those who can't or taking out those that aren't the "boat owning elite".


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

We give up as much as texas gives up....


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

I've been saying for years the Gulf ought to be broken into different zones, each with different seasons and bag limits. Just like deer hunting zones in most states.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Yep. The Recreational guys having giving more than we should have ever had to.(not that we had a choice).

The word "equal" doesn't even sound right in this situation anymore.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I can only assume the kitchen is getting a little warm at noaa and at the southeast regional management office. Otherwise no way that a season extension would be considered if I read the noaa decision making personalities at noaa right.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Federally permitted head/charter boats have been forced into "fishing for those who can't" because of Amendment 40, Sector Separation. 3/4 of the head/charter boats do not approve of Amendment 40. This is a prime example of NOAA at work, EDF at work. Keep them fighting among themselves and they will NEVER be able to stand up against us. 
State waters: 78 day red snapper season
Federal waters: 3 day red snapper season
Few Florida state waters offer any red snapper.
Trading state days for federal days would benefit the vast majority. 
Considering the benefits of the few over the majority is a prime example of EDF's 'divide & conquer.' A prime example as to why we are controlled, rather than control.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Harbison said:


> Federally permitted head/charter boats have been forced into "fishing for those who can't" because of Amendment 40, Sector Separation. 3/4 of the head/charter boats do not approve of Amendment 40. This is a prime example of NOAA at work, EDF at work. Keep them fighting among themselves and they will NEVER be able to stand up against us.
> State waters: 78 day red snapper season
> Federal waters: 3 day red snapper season
> Few Florida state waters offer any red snapper.
> ...


Bullshit. Push for state management. Don't buy into their argument that their is only X amount of snapper and this is what y'all fight over. Tampa shouldn't be managed the same as the Panhandle and Texas shouldn't be managed the same as the Keys.


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## ST1300rider (Apr 27, 2017)

dustyflair said:


> givingup any state days, if anything open our state waters 365, 24/7, just like texas.


Except for one problem, Texas state waters are too shallow for many ARS.

"Two decades ago, recreational snapper landings were evenly divided between the eastern and western halves of the Gulf. That has dramatically changed. Over the last few years, about 80 percent of the recreational snapper landings have come from two states in the eastern Gulf - Florida and Alabama. Last year, according to harvest data used by NOAA, private anglers in those two states landed 3.7 million pounds of snapper. Private-boat anglers in Texas landed only about 166,000 pounds. Mississippi's private-boat anglers landed twice that amount."

http://www.chron.com/sports/outdoor...napper-season-doesn-t-add-up-for-11126966.php

It's tough all over. I fished a 100 person party boat out of Galveston in the 80's and 90's. Limit was 7 fish each back then. The boat didn't come back in (from 55 miles out) until there were 700 ARS on board. That usually only took about 5 hours.


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## 60hertz (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm sure I'm getting ready to piss a bunch of y'all off (nothing new), so go nuke a bag of Orville Redenbacher's Gourmet Popcorn.

The recreational fisherman shouldn't be seasonally limited. Without getting all philosophical and theological it is MY God given right to provide for myself. PERIOD.

I fully understand we need closures for wildlife (deer, turkey, etc.) for mating season and the like and have size limits to allow for procreation to allow the species to survive.

Commercial fishing has taken our natural resource away from us and the political correct crowd is trying to force "catch and release" down our throat without EVER addressing the negativity of commercial fishing.

Why is the catch of the day at a local restaurant tilapia? Tilapia ain't local! And, this is the worse part - they (the commercial guy) takes our resource, sells it to the highest bidder, and we're forced to eat Chinese trash fish.

It's all just BS.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Alabama, percentage wise, makes up the majority of red snapper landings. Recreational and commercial.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

This is starting to remind me of that movie, Invasion of the body snatchers....


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

"I've been saying for years the Gulf ought to be broken into different zones, each with different seasons and bag limits."

"Tampa shouldn't be managed the same as the Panhandle and Texas shouldn't be managed the same as the Keys."

Exactly! This would solve a lot of problems. Every area is different and should be regulated differently. What is best for fish & fishermen alike should be the number one concern, not the almighty $$$.


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

Harbison said:


> Very true! So, to equal things out, "other parts of the state" should have a much loner season.


I understand your view , seeing you have vested interest in fishing the middle grounds. I believe your stated view supports the objective of keep us fighting each other. How do you plan to stop the fish from swimming between areas. Sorry, your vested interests are showing


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

how about doing away with the "Federal Reef Permits"? I never really understood that in the first place. "Only charter boats with Federal Reef Permits, can keep reef fish caught in federal waters..." there are only a certian number of these permits, right?


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## Dmoney (Feb 19, 2017)

The recreational fisherman shouldn't be seasonally limited. Without getting all philosophical and theological it is MY God given right to provide for myself. PERIOD.


60, I am hopelessly mute, because you took the words right out of my mouth. "Keep a line in the water"


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Learn from each other*

In absolutely NO WAY does equality for everyone "supports the objective of keeping us fighting." What keeps us fighting is when a state has a 78 day red snapper season, but only has red snapper in a small portion of that state, is not willing to give up a few days for those who have only a 3 day season. This is when "your vested interests are showing." 
"stop the fish from swimming between areas" This cannot be done. That is why what any one of the five Gulf states does can possibly have an effect on all Gulf sates. That is why we do need a Gulf Council. However, that Gulf Council must represent what is best for fish as well as fishermen, ALL fishermen, and not special interest groups. 
Federal Reef Permits: Good or bad Federal Reef Permits control the number of charter/head boats fishing federal waters. 
"there are only a certain number of these permits, right?" Right! Need a 'Reef Permit?' Find someone who has one to sell & prepare to pay the BIG, really BIG, bucks. 
"Only charter boats with Federal Reef Permits, can keep reef fish caught in federal waters." 
Charter/head boats must indeed have a Federal Reef Permit to keep reef fish caught in federal waters, and then, only doing the federal season. It's my understanding that federal permitted boats can fish state waters also, but only when the federal season is open. As such, federal permitted boats cannot fish either federal or state waters for ARS after 7/20. 
"The recreational fisherman shouldn't be seasonally limited." 
Without 'limits' on both recreational as well as commercial fishermen our fishery could not survive. Recreational fishermen are regulated through seasons and possession limits. Commercial fishermen are regulated through a strict IFQ system. 
As an example, with NO regulations the huge king fish schools of the sixties were devastated. I know; I was there; I did my share! Never again do we want to do that. To flourish for generations to come, strict regulations of our fishery are essential. However, we must insist that these regulations are based on modern, up-to-date, science; not greed. 
Guys, I am a Florida native who has been fishing our waters ever since the late forties. I am, and have always been, 100% recreational. 
I have seen a lot, done a lot, and learned a lot. Regardless, I do not pretend to be an expert. 
The subjects we are discussing are important to many who fish salt water. Have anything to add? Please do so. We can learn so much from each other!


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

Using the same rules/reg for everyone means you have the same chance as everyone. 
Because you live in an area that has less snapper within nine miles doesn't mean you need special compensation. Want more snapper areas - move.
Federal Reef Permits should not be personal property - the fish are a public resource. Selling a reef permit is what the Sea Lords are doing with commercial snapper
You use words that say we are a team, but you views indicate otherwise. 
Just so we are clear, I have gone snapper fishing once since it opened in Florida.
waters. 
If you don't think your comments support infighting, why are we disagreeing on so much ? Must be because I don't accept your views ?? Right!


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Harbison, I dont go back to the 40s but I do to the 50s. The regs we have now are as good and fair as they can be. I have fished commercialy with a FRP and recreational now. I also seen the massive decline in reef fish and the comeback we now have. We must just live with what we have. You should be satisfied with what you have built and made a good living from. I don't know many commercial fishermen doing as well as you appear to be doing.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

If state and federal seasons were reversed, I wonder Mr. Harbison, would this thread still exist?

Would you still have posted it?


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

From what I understand, all states will have to agree to mirror the "new" federal season. They are looking at a few options. One is, I think, Saturdays and Sundays only June 17th- September 4th. Or something like that. If all states have to agree, then I don't think it's gonna happen. I just don't see Texas giving up 365 days a year for 39 or whatever the number is.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

And another point, y'all do realize that we have over harvested already? According to NOAA/NMFS. If they give more federal days, then they will have an excuse for zero days next year. I swear, recreational anglers are like my dog. Chasing the ball and then a squirrel runs out. Easy as shit to distract them and send them chasing something else. Stay the course. Keep state waters open and keep pushing for state management out to 200 nm. Get rid of NOAA's junk science.

And can you imagine the boat ramps on the weekends through September??


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## Dmoney (Feb 19, 2017)

After BP and Deepwater Horizon spilled 100 MILLION BARRELS of oil in the Gulf of Mexico, BP .president Tony Haywood said "It's a big ocean". I was so p. o. I like to slapped the tv! I was livid. The Cajuns in south LA said " Oh Boy!! The Fishing Gonna get good now!" I'm thinking... Y'all are nuts. I should have known 2 things. (1) crude oil has been spilled in the Gulf since the 60s. (2) the Gulf is a warm water estuary and there are micro organisms at the bottom of the food chain (web) that eat crude oil. Other than the dead zone in the Gulf, caused by algae bloom from runoff of ag. fertilizers, I dare say fishing out there is as good or better than it was pre-oil spill. Shoot holes in that if you will. I've worked out there too. Harbison, I can tell you are a wise man and very passionate about fishing, as we all are! I think the devil in the details here has to do with numbers. A man out in a boat with his family or small fishing party cannot and will not have the impact on a population a vessel 5-6 times larger equipped with dozens of times as many hooks and a hold that will store several tons of fish. I also, from the avators I see on this forum, notice that many of you are deer hunters , as I am. What would happen to the deer herd if we allowed commercial hunting? How long would it last? How long of a season could we have if hunters piled out of buses, surrounded the woods, and began shooting everything that came out, and then began to sell it at say 10$ a pound. Now I said all of the above, if you are still awake, to reiterate, I should,as 60 so eloquently stated, be able to take what my family can eat ANYTIME. Put the seasons and the limits on commercial interest...if you want to do what is fair. It is a big ocean, but we know species can be wiped out.....but not if we take what we need to feed ourselves. There's just not that many of us and we need to stick together and "Keep a line in the water".


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Harbison said:


> Federal Reef Permits: Good or bad Federal Reef Permits control the number of charter/head boats fishing federal waters.
> "there are only a certain number of these permits, right?" Right! Need a 'Reef Permit?' Find someone who has one to sell & prepare to pay the BIG, really BIG, bucks.
> 
> How is this different from the commercial to Rec folks? I have a small Charter service (Nothing BIG about my operation lol) but if a charter boat with deep pockets has a federal reef permit, they can keep snapper from federal waters, I don't have a permit, so I cant. Is this is the same as sector separation? Just on a smaller segment of the fishing population? and, why is there only a limited number of these permits? To keep the community small, that's why...... let that soak in for a minute....
> ...


For the record, I like to fish for snapper, they fill the time between the BIG fish... lol If a head gets reeled up, I get excited, That's "Just the head" lol I don't keep any, I hate to eat fish, much less clean the dang things.... 

my comments in red above....


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Harbison, There is No commercial reef fishing in Florida state waters. Commercial FRP holders have a tracking device that cannot be turned off and are also required to call when going on a trip and call before arriving back in port to be inspected for there catch. Like I have said many times in the past, Post a LOGICAL solution to the perceived problem. 
The so called fish lords will try to spread there shares out so they have fresh reef fish all year long for the market. If individuals had the shares exclusively in the first couple months the market would be flooded with the years quota then none for the rest of the year.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

If you don't think your comments support infighting, why are we disagreeing on so much ? Must be because I don't accept your views ?? Right!

WRONG!

The idea of trading a few ARS state days for more federal days is now a hot topic from one end of Florida to the other. The only objections noted comers from Northern Florida. Talk about a 'vested interest!' What should be, and will be, considered is what's best for all, that's ALL, concerned. 
VMS: Someone mentioned the VMS requirement for commercial fishermen. Crabtree wants VMS on all head/charter boats. Next up...on recreational boats. Want NOAA to watch every move you make? 
We, the recreational fishermen, are our own worst enemies. "disagreeing on so much" is rampant. We do not need NOAA, EDF, Pew, Walton Foundation, PETA, or anyone else to destroy us; we can do that all by ourselves.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

You keep talking about just Northern Florida, but that's not the only ones that you are asking to give up days. It's one size fits all. You are asking Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and the Panhandle to give up state water days, so that you're head boat can keep red snapper. 

We are trading a lot more than a few days.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

The best interest of a 5 Gulf states must be considered. 
A 3 day federal red snapper season is in the best interest of NO STATE!

"so you're head boat can keep red snapper" 

WRONG AGAIN! First of all I do not have a head boat. Second, the Federal ARS season for federally permitted head/charter boats is 49 days. That's not the problem; the problem is the 3 day federal waters recreational 2017 season. 
The 49 day head/charter boat season is a result of Sector/Separation. Talk about divide & conquer! This represents NOAA at it's best. 
All should enjoy EQUALLY in ALL sustainable stocks.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I know you do not own the boat, I called it "you're" boat, because you seem to have a vested interest in it. Either way, why don't y'all target some hog fish or some of the other species that we don't have and stop worrying about snapper. If you don't have that many in state waters, then petition for more state waters. Don't try and take away from the VAST majority of the Gulf.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

The "VAST majority" of the Gulf has a 3 day red snapper season. This is the problem!
"stop worrying about snapper" NO worry here with our 49 day season. The "worry" is the 3 day recreational season. 
"other species" Our #1 targeted fish is mangrove snapper; NO season & we can keep 20. Next is gag grouper. The Middle Grounds is loaded with both mangrove snapper & gag grouper. In addition, the Grounds support a huge concentration of red snapper. 
What we are fighting for is equal access to ALL sustainable stocks for ALL fishermen.


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## 60hertz (Oct 1, 2007)

Harbison said:


> The "VAST majority" of the Gulf has a 3 day red snapper season. This is the problem!
> "stop worrying about snapper" NO worry here with our 49 day season. The "worry" is the 3 day recreational season.
> "other species" Our #1 targeted fish is mangrove snapper; NO season & we can keep 20. Next is gag grouper. The Middle Grounds is loaded with both mangrove snapper & gag grouper. In addition, the Grounds support a huge concentration of red snapper.
> What we are fighting for is equal access to ALL sustainable stocks for ALL fishermen.


That's just it...not everyone deserves equal access. The recreational guy is primarily fishing to feed HIS family. The commercial fishermen is selling a natural resource for his own profit. The charter industry is somewhere in between.

True, the commercial and charter fishermen ARE feeding their family with the profits - but, the commercial sector has become way too greedy. This is painstakingly clear when the "fish of the day" in Pensacola is Chinese Talapia, Vietnamese Basa, or some other "edible' fish and it's $5 to $8 extra for snapper, grouper, or whatever that's "Fresh From Florida."


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Agreed on the commercial sector. When I said "equal access" I should have noted that the "equal access" I was referring to was in relation to recreational fishermen.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

60hertz said:


> The recreational guy is primarily fishing to feed HIS family.
> If this is how the Recreational Guy "Feeds HIS family" He would be better off going to buy his snapper from the commercial guy, a lot less expensive, right?
> 
> 
> ...


...


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## evacuee (Oct 16, 2007)

*Possible Extension of Federal Red Snapper Season*

Just got an email from a friend in Biloxi with this attachment. Cannot vouch for the legitimacy of it but we can all keep our fingers crossed and do the survey.


Subject: Possible Federal Red Snapper Season Extension

Dear Tails n’ Scales Member,

You are receiving this message as a member of the Mississippi Red Snapper fishing community. 

State and federal officials are currently considering the possibility of extending the summer fishing season in federal waters by aligning the opening and closing of Red Snapper fishing days throughout the Gulf in both state and federal waters. The MDMR appreciates your willingness to review the scenarios being proposed and provide feedback as a participant in the Red Snapper fishery. Please note that this discussion applies only to private recreational angling for Red Snapper. 

The MDMR would like to thank you in advance for your participation in this process. The information provided through this survey will assist fisheries managers in formulating a recommendation for our Red Snapper fishery moving forward.

Please follow the link below and take the short survey to indicate your preference:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/msredsnapper


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I think the main concern here is that the current efforts could be a prelude to the elimination of the State seasons and state Non compliance in the future. Once the feds get the seasons aligned think it will be hard to get back to a 78 day state season.... 

What about triggerfish, and amberjack? Why are those closures not being considered. 


As far as the argument what is good for all of Florida should be the deciding factor....The gag grouper season is open in state water for the big bend area when it is not in the rest of Florida. I have not heard anybody from the big bend area and south being upset about the non equal access.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> .
> 
> What about triggerfish, and amberjack? Why are those closures not being considered.


I'd be for trading with the feds IF the state of Florida would open trigger the rest of the year.


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## speckledcroaker (Mar 23, 2012)

Wirelessly posted

Commercial fishing should be banned completely. Noaa and the gulf counsel should be thrown in jail for racketeering.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't see Texas agreeing to this, so makes me wonder what's gonna happen. I hope it falls flat on it's face and we keep state waters open the way they currently are. If they change it to this weekend only bullshit, then I'm gonna pass on snapper this year. I'm not going to deal with launches on the weekend.


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## MixMasterMike (Jul 5, 2016)

I still think the data input would help... boat registrations and fishing licenses are what determine the rec estimated catches. That means pontoon boats, jet skis, flats boats, john boats, ect. all are being considered as catching limits of ARS on open days... If they say we have X amount of lbs to catch for our sector, with no data, they can easily say we "overfished"... Money can easily guide guesses, not so much with data


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Trust me, according to NOAA, we have already overfished our TAC. If they give us more days, then it sets the stage for a zero day season next year.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I didn't believe it when I first heard it, but I searched for it and found it. NOAA in their model for the length of the red snapper season uses "google searches" as a component in modeling.

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sustainab...nts/pdfs/gulf_red_snapper_rec_season_2017.pdf

Catch rates and average weights anticipated during the 2017 federal seasons were projected using generalized linear regression models implemented using R v3.3.1 (R Core Team 2014), with a Gaussian error distribution on average weights and a negative binomial error distribution on catch rates. Input data for regressions included wave 3 private mode catch rates and waves 3-4 charter and headboat catch rates from 2004-2016, excluding 2010 due to the confounding effects of fishery closures associated with the BP/Deepwater Horizon MC252 oil spill. The year 2014 was also excluded from the headboat data due to the confounding effects of the implementation of the HBC coupled with the short federal season. A suite of suitable models for each state and mode were identified using an exhaustive search method from the R _glmulti _library (Calcagno 2013). The best model was identified by comparing prediction error for all models within 2 AICc points of the minimum (Akaike 1979, Hurvich & Tsai 1989), using cross-validation implemented using the cv.glm function from the R _boot _package (Canty and Ripley 2016). Residual diagnostics were used to verify goodness-of-fit and variable inflation factor tests were used to avoid multi-collinearity. Following Farmer & Froeschke (2015), a second projection run was made by directly applying 2016 federal season catch rates and average weights. 
Predictive covariates considered for regressions on average weight and catch rates were: (1) state season lengths, (2) open weekend days, (3) spawning stock biomass (SSB), (4) fuel prices, (5) year in the rebuilding plan, (*6) Google trends data*, (7) per capita gross domestic product (GDP), (8) red snapper recreational quota, and (9) fishable days based on weather (*Figure 2*). State season lengths were based on state announcements (2004-2016) and 2017 announcements or statements provided by state fishery managers (*Table 1*). .........................................*Google trends (**www.google.com/trends/**) in searches for the phrase "red snapper season" between January and March were explored because red snapper catch rates have been shown to be well-predicted by Google search counts (Carter et al. 2015). Search counts are adjusted by Google to make comparisons between terms easier; each point is divided by the total searches of the geography and time range it represents, with relative popularity scaled on a range from 0 to 100. *


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

Who cares if we have 0 federal days next year, I sure don't...


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

jgraham154 said:


> Who cares if we have 0 federal days next year, I sure don't...


Wait till there is zero days of grouper, mingo, scamp, wahoo, tuna......


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

jgraham154 said:


> Who cares if we have 0 federal days next year, I sure don't...


I do. I haven't fished federal snapper in over 10 years. Haven't kept a snapper in about the same time. This issue isn't about snapper. This is about government over reach. Government gifting of a public resource to individuals. You gonna care when they do it to deer one day? Turkey? If you think that sounds absurd, then see if you can find the forum conversations from just 5-6 years ago. We could keep trigger, aj's, etc. Now what ya got? Mingos and not for too much longer it looks like. Guess we can all fall back on pinfish, ruby reds and porgy. For a little while.....


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## ironman (Oct 18, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> i didn't believe it when i first heard it, but i searched for it and found it. Noaa in their model for the length of the red snapper season uses "google searches" as a component in modeling.
> 
> http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sustainab...nts/pdfs/gulf_red_snapper_rec_season_2017.pdf
> 
> ...


 huh???????


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

Of a commercial,season is open the rec should be open...


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## SnapperSlapper (Feb 13, 2009)

Regardless of what happens this year, NOAA's goal is for all commercially valuable fish to be catch and release for recreational anglers. Next year there will be zero days of federal snapper, regardless of what happens. In five years the only fish a recreational angler will be allowed to keep is a king mackeral. The only solution is to get a change of the law. Please, please email, call, or mail your congressman, senator, and mayor. Join RFA http://www.joinrfa.org. 

The big commercial guys (55 of them) and CFA guys (200 of them) have much more representation on the council, are better organized, and have EDF money. But what they do not have is bodies and thus votes. There are hundreds of thousands of recreational anglers, each one with a vote. Make this a voting issue. And let your politicians know it is a voting issue.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Slapper, You are referring to Federal waters Florida will still have a season. What you should be complaining about is selling numbers for a profit using side scan sonar. That will as it already has ruin the Florida fishing in short order. I dove opening day and all my reefs were loaded with big Snapper. Went yesterday (Friday) and had to make 8 dives to get my two legal snapper. I have never seen so many boats on known reefs as Friday.


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## sfmill (Apr 3, 2015)

SnapperSlapper said:


> Regardless of what happens this year, NOAA's goal is for all commercially valuable fish to be catch and release for recreational anglers. Next year there will be zero days of federal snapper, regardless of what happens. In five years the only fish a recreational angler will be allowed to keep is a king mackeral. The only solution is to get a change of the law. Please, please email, call, or mail your congressman, senator, and mayor. Join RFA http://www.joinrfa.org.
> 
> The big commercial guys (55 of them) and CFA guys (200 of them) have much more representation on the council, are better organized, and have EDF money. But what they do not have is bodies and thus votes. There are hundreds of thousands of recreational anglers, each one with a vote. Make this a voting issue. And let your politicians know it is a voting issue.


I hope every one in FL. knows that king mackeral brings good money. 
Thats why florida allows king mackeral gill netting in Federal waters. 
I would not bet on there being a king mack season in 2020. 
And if you think kings is all that gets caught in the net. 

:whistling:


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## sfmill (Apr 3, 2015)

It is amazing how some people say that they think the feds are doing a great job. 
But then complain about everyone being crowded together in state waters and his spots are fished out. 
Huh the irony. 
All those charter guys today where not crowded at all when they caught there snapper because they were in federal waters with no one around them. 
Yeah system is working great. 
And when federal season is over for the charter guys. Then the commercial boats can come in to all those nice public reefs in federal waters and get the rest of the red snapper that you could not keep to sell to make sure everyone in Europe has Snapper on the menu. 
Man i love NOAA and the Gulf Council. 
And not only locals guys get to keep 2,3, thousand pounds of snapper. 
I have seen boats from destin, panama city, carrabelle and have heard of captains coming form tampa to enjoy our red snapper. 
Yep system is working great.


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## chasintales (Sep 29, 2007)

Sealark is telling it for sure. Every day the state is open and the federal waters closed, the charters and us put a ton of pressure on the near shore reefs and wrecks. I have seen smaller fish this year and we all know it's the big ones that produce to babies. I fear that soon we will have a state season but not be able to catch 2 keepers. Not sure what the answer is but one thing is for sure, it is hard to make the best decisions when lobbyist groups can influence people hundred miles away to dictate what should happen in our back yard. Thanks for listening to my rant...


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## sfmill (Apr 3, 2015)

60hertz said:


> That's just it...not everyone deserves equal access. The recreational guy is primarily fishing to feed HIS family. The commercial fishermen is selling a natural resource for his own profit. The charter industry is somewhere in between.
> 
> True, the commercial and charter fishermen ARE feeding their family with the profits - but, the commercial sector has become way too greedy. This is painstakingly clear when the "fish of the day" in Pensacola is Chinese Talapia, Vietnamese Basa, or some other "edible' fish and it's $5 to $8 extra for snapper, grouper, or whatever that's "Fresh From Florida."


I love this. And agree with all of it. 
But alot of us in Alabama feel like it is almost a man made resource.
With 1,300 public reefs and 18,000 private reefs it is really a fisherman 
created resource. 
So is it really fair that a shareholder that does not even fish will be and are federally gifted millionaires by selling something they had no part in creating. 
Everyone planted a garden and the Govt selects who gets to harvest the crop.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

sfmill said:


> I love this. And agree with all of it.
> But alot of us in Alabama feel like it is almost a man made resource.
> With 1,300 public reefs and 18,000 private reefs it is really a fisherman
> created resource.
> ...


havent thought about this like this before..... if the 18,000 private reefs did not exist..... there would be far less snapper... no?


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## sfmill (Apr 3, 2015)

Realtor said:


> havent thought about this like this before..... if the 18,000 private reefs did not exist..... there would be far less snapper... no?


Correct! Years ago Florida Sportsman wrote a article about Alabama and the amount of reefs for the tiny amount of coastline. Nothing like it on the big blue planet. 
It is not always 40% but never drops below 30%. There is alot of red snapper south of Alabama. 
That is why we have to have state control. 
Alabama cannot and should not be regulated like the other states. 
It is not even close to being fair. 
Why else would so many commercial boats come here to catch snapper. 
Every out of state commercial boat should have to pay for a $20,000 red snapper permit. 
Our have 20 of there own private reefs dropped and only fish there reefs. 
Our move state waters out 35 miles. 
Then let them fish as NOAA wants them to.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Here's a logical Partial solution. Keep the state regulations like they are now and open federal waters the entire month of December to recreational fishing. Reason being is most of the commercial quotas will be filled by the end of the year due to the Fish lords regulating the permits to keep the steady supply of fish coming in the entire year. I know it's rough in December and colder. Now who has a better logical solution.
I don't think any reef fish get shipped over seas. Most when I commercially held a frp 30 years ago I believe went to Fulton market in New York for US distribution. Not sure about the market name or the state I know they went North.


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## k-p (Oct 7, 2009)

MrFish said:


> Trust me, according to NOAA, we have already overfished our TAC. If they give us more days, then it sets the stage for a zero day season next year.


This is very true. Hope the states don't fall for NOAA's crap that they're coming up with. NOAA may do an emergency closure after the states have agreed to some measly fed opening so it's probably just a ploy. It will set bad precedent for next year too. It's ridiculous to be making regulations this late in the game anyway when people have already made travel plans, etc.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

I'd be for the state-fed swap "IF" state would open trigger season during the week. We need something to fish for (and bring home) other than b-liners and pogies.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Vermillion snapper were addressed at the last Gulf Council meeting. I think an ACL of around 3.11 million pounds for 2017-2021?


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Give up that state season. These guys need the fish. 

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f42/fishing-fishing-capital-world-833914/

These guys can hardly keep anything. Pitiful...
Yet I can't even take 1 triggerfish home.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

"The big commercial guys (55 of them) and CFA guys (200 of them) have much more representation on the council, are better organized, and have EDF money. But what they do not have is bodies and thus votes. There are hundreds of thousands of recreational anglers, each one with a vote. Make this a voting issue. And let your politicians know it is a voting issue"


Would really be great if those who make the decisions had to face the VOTE. Crabtree & gang would never make it past the first election.

As far as trading days, what is best for all concerned should be the deciding factor.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

You keep saying best for all, but what you mean is best for Tampa. I hope Texas stymies the whole freaking thing. Piss on this idea of trading state days for federal.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

jlw1972 said:


> Give up that state season. These guys need the fish.
> 
> http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f42/fishing-fishing-capital-world-833914/
> 
> ...



Swapping state for federal days doesn't impact the Friendly Fisherman or their catch. They carry a federal reef permit, they will get to fish 46 days fed/state regardless.

It all boils down to; do you want more days in state only, or less days in state/fed waters. For me, I rarely fish on Sundays. That would leave only one day a week to target snapper if we go the fed way. I'd tell the feds to pound sand.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Best for the majority*

Have been, still do, and will always be for what is best for the majority.
"Piss on the idea of trading state days for federal." Sorry but a 3 day federal season just does not cut it. The vast majority would benefit greatly from more federal days. 3 vs. 79 days does not cut it!
Both the Friendly & Florida Fisherman, as well as all Gulf of Mexico federally chartered head/charter boats, due to sector separation, fish a 49 day red snapper season. That's not the problem; the problem is the 3 day recreational ARS season. This is far from best for the majority!
As far as Texas goes, Texas with its NO CLOSED SEASON, is a contributing factor for shorter seasons for the remaining 4 Gulf states.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Harbison said:


> Have been, still do, and will always be for what is best for the majority.
> "Piss on the idea of trading state days for federal." Sorry but a 3 day federal season just does not cut it. The vast majority would benefit greatly from more federal days.
> As far as Texas goes, Texas with its NO CLOSED SEASON, is a contributing factor for shorter seasons for the remaining 4 Gulf states.


Keep spewing the bullshit. If Texas complied, they would still cut it short. We would've had approximately 15 days. The vast majority is not the same interest as Tampa. The vast majority have snapper in state waters.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

"Keep spewing the bullshit." Sorry but I do not talk like that. 
"vast majority have snapper in state waters." You must be joking!


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

*??*

:whistling:


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Sounds good! Fun is what fishing is all about. Wish more people felt that way.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Sea-r-cy said:


> Swapping state for federal days doesn't impact the Friendly Fisherman or their catch. They carry a federal reef permit, they will get to fish 46 days fed/state regardless.
> 
> It all boils down to; do you want more days in state only, or less days in state/fed waters. For me, I rarely fish on Sundays. That would leave only one day a week to target snapper if we go the fed way. I'd tell the feds to pound sand.


Pushing state waters out solves the problem.


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## kmerr80 (Oct 28, 2013)

"What's best for the majority"...

Isn't that what the government said for healthcare. I'm starting to see the similarity with gulf fishing. Cost's me more to go out and fish but yet I get to keep less and go less, yet the assholes on the govt tit get to reap the rewards.


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## Mullethead (Oct 4, 2007)

As much as I would like to fish Federal waters more days, the Fed's proposal is based on a fundamentally flawed assumption- the Federal estimated amount of snapper in the Gulf. 

The Gulf Council, while feeling the heat after allowing only 3 days - is still sticking to their own stock assessment. They can not bring themselves to admit they screwed up so bad... Also - the Gulf Council is upset that the states are no longer following their lead .. So the Gulf Council, in a bid to gain some power/control over the state snapper rules ... is dangling a carrot out.. While admitting no wrong or error in the Fed stock assessment, they gain some control over the states snapper rules. .. This is the Feds definition of "working together". - Translation - "We (Feds) still know better than you (states) ... so cut back your fishing because snapper are really endangered" 

The States have shown to ability to react quickly and more realistcly to fish population issue - not perfect - but much closer to reality 

Real issue is the absurdly short Federal season - compounded my the even more absurd sector separation scheme ..

Either lengthen the Federal Days - or as stated above - push the state waters on out quite a bit -and let the states manage the local stocks


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Apparently Mr. Harbison doesn't believe a state should have the right to regulate its fisheries inside its own territorial waters. Perhaps he believes the FWC should dictate what Texas fishermen should be doing. Or, perhaps he is making the case for each state to manage their own fisheries as they see fit - it makes no scientific, ecological, or economic sense to manage Texas fishermen based on what Florida fishermen are doing. It's like managing Texas deer herds/seasons based on what Alabama deer/hunters are doing. It's ludicrous.

The other gentleman is correct - it really doesn't matter what Texas does, as the Feds' will find one excuse or another to blame for their un-needed, un-wanted draconian regulations.

What y'all is missing here is that the 27 day proposal is a big F.U. to Roy Crabtree and Co. as it is coming straight from the Commerce Dept. They are having to intervene here due to the NMFS/EDF/Roy Crabtree's incompetence/corruption/collusion. What do we have to lose next year if we don't take the 27 days this summer? We are ALREADY facing complete shutout from federal waters THIS YEAR with the 99.5% PROHIBITION of federal water fishing, and are most certainly looking at a 0 day federal season NEXT YEAR. 

If the enemy wants to give us 27 days, we should take it. I believe the pendulum has swung so far to the left that it can't sustain itself and MUST swing back in our favor. I believe that President Trump or Sec. of Commerce Wilbur Ross will step in and provide much needed sanity before next season.


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## k-p (Oct 7, 2009)

I think some may be misinterpreting Mr. Harbison. I think he is well intentioned on not on NMFS' side. 

However, why would I take a 27 day season when I can have a 78 day season? That's the dangerous precedent I was referring to in my earlier post....look forward...can you imagine June 2018 with only 20 something days of snapper season when last year was 78, at least in Florida?


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

k-p said:


> I think some may be misinterpreting Mr. Harbison. I think he is well intentioned on not on NMFS' side.
> 
> However, why would I take a 27 day season when I can have a 78 day season? That's the dangerous precedent I was referring to in my earlier post....look forward...can you imagine June 2018 with only 20 something days of snapper season when last year was 78, at least in Florida?


Because the 28 day season is weekends only in exponentially more productive waters than state waters.


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## stc1993 (Nov 23, 2014)

I read we only have 2% of our share left this year. If we have 27 more fed. days that is going to give them an excuse not to give any days next year.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Much needed sanity*

MUCH NEEDED SANITY
"Real issue is the absurdly short Federal season - compounded by the even more absurd sector separation scheme .."
Agreed 100%. The ''short Federal season'' as well as, " the even more absurd sector separation scheme .." are both 'schemes' leading into catch shares. Under catch shares (paid fishing) we, the fishermen of this country, would be forced to pay billions for the privilege of catching our own fish. The Walton Family Foundation (Walmart) donated $36,341,561 to such groups as the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF) for the promotion of catch shares. NOAA is heavily influenced by the EDF. Walmart does nothing without a profit motive. Guess who will be selling us shares to catch what was once our fish? You got it! Walmart. 
The Walmart gang is counting on the American red snapper fishermen being so happy with finally being able to catch & keep red snapper that we will be more than willing to pay for the 'privilege' of doing so. Watch for the 'endangered' American red snapper to make a 'miraculous' recovery once we are forced to pay, pay, and then PAY some more. 
Sector separation, as well as the 3 day federal ARS season, are parts of NOAA's plan of pitting recreational against recreational, divide & conquer, 'scheme.' Keep them fighting among themselves and they can easily be controlled. 
TEXAS: "it makes no scientific, ecological, or economic sense to manage Texas fishermen based on what Florida fishermen are doing."
Like it or not, admit it or not, all five Gulf of Mexico states pull from the same 'pond!' As such what any one state does can have a direct affect on the remaining four states. 
"I believe that President Trump or Sec. of Commerce Wilbur Ross will step in and provide much needed sanity before next season." Let's hope so! Last November we sent the strongest message ever that 'politics as usual' is over. It's time, way past time, that those we pay to represent us do just that. 

"I think he is well intentioned on not on the NMFS' side"
ABSOLUTELY! 
I have been fighting Roy Crabtree's NMFS for years.

I would be the first to sign this petition:
' We the citizens of the United States of America believe our nation's fishery has been severely mis managed by Dr. Roy Crabtree, he has denied the physical evidence placed before him regarding the Health of our fishery and continues to ignore the facts of all user groups RECREATIONAL / CHARTER FOR HIRE / & COMMERCIAL and we would like him removed from his position immediately . He has shut down coastal communities, historical fishing families and following we would also like a full congressional investigation in the NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE . '

Hopefully the above petition reaches the desk of Mr Ross and he provides 'MUCH NEEDED SANITY!'

In the mean time, what are others saying about the 'trading of days?' 

"If this comes to pass it will at least give us some more opportunities here in the west central but NOAA is still giving us and all the recs in the gulf the high hard one... The 3 day season was more than likely NOAA's answer to the states not following the federal laws in state waters. So now the FWC is going to give some back which is great for us but in the end, good science and good use of that science would show that the bio mass is huge and can handle much more of a season than even this gives us."

"Good first step if it comes to pass but we still need to keep the pressure on NOAA to get the #'s right so good management can be implemented."


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## k-p (Oct 7, 2009)

jspooney said:


> Because the 28 day season is weekends only in exponentially more productive waters than state waters.


I disagree and would say it's marginally better. I get my limit or 1 near it almost every trip and had many trips with 20 lb plus fish and a limit. All the 28 day season will do is enable derby style fishing on the weekends and look forward to the longer run when the weather is chancy.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

I can't do the math (maybe one of you whiz folks can) but extending Federal season VASTLY increases the amount of fishable water, thus more opportunity for taking better quality fish without creating a 9-mile snapper desert. Plus, spreads the boats out and reduces the confrontations about "my" spot.

I applaud the move and hope it sticks for many years.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

extending Federal season VASTLY increases the amount of fishable water, thus more opportunity for taking better quality fish without creating a 9-mile snapper desert. Plus, spreads the boats out and reduces the confrontations about "my" spot.

I applaud the move and hope it sticks for many years.

"extending Federal season VASTLY increases the amount of fishable water" Very well said. What is best for the majority & for the sport MUST be considered. 

For the last two weekends we have been fishing the far Northern ends of the Florida Middle Grounds. We also fish as far South as Fort Myers & all points in between. We are finding large numbers of American reds on virtually every reef, pot hole, and wreck. Off Florida federal waters extends from 9 to 200 miles. There is a very large population on red snapper in federal waters. A real season with realistic possession limits are needed, not only for the fisherman, but for other reef fish inhabitants. Red snapper tend to be very aggressive, and territorial. They often take control at the expense of other species.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Politics as usual is over!*

Politics as usual is over! 

This directly from The Department of Commerce:
Department of Commerce Announces Changes to the 2017 Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Private Angler Recreational Season


WASHINGTON -For the first time in a decade, Federal authorities and the five Gulf States have agreed to align Federal and State private angler red snapper fishing seasons for the remainder of the summer, and the Department of Commerce has re-opened the 2017 private angler recreational season for 39 weekend days and holidays. Majority Whip Scalise and other Members of Congress were instrumental in reaching this agreement.
The agreement reached between the Secretary of Commerce and the five Gulf States is a significant step forward in building a new Federal-State partnership in managing the Gulf of Mexico red snapper stock. This represents a commitment from the states to restore a shared vision of uniform management that will benefit the long term recovery of the red snapper stock while maximizing the economic benefits from recreational fishing in the Gulf region.
The new rule announced today will re-open the 2017 Federal recreational season for red snapper by the private angling component on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays from June 16, 2017, through Labor Day, September 4, 2017. During this time, the season will be closed Monday through Thursday with the exception of July 3, July 4, and September 4. Correspondingly, the five Gulf States will bring their state red snapper water seasons into alignment with the Federal water season for the rest of the summer.

This from the FWC:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission



Anglers can take advantage of more Gulf red snapper fishing starting this weekend 



This Friday, June 16, begins the first weekend of an additional 39-day season for recreational red snapper fishing in Gulf federal waters and changes to the state season. The U.S. Department of Commerce announced these expanded fishing opportunities today, and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) followed with an executive order setting the updated season in state waters. 

The 39-day season is open Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays from Friday, June 16, through Monday, Sept. 4. Also included are Monday and Tuesday, July 3 and 4, and Monday, Sept. 4. 

“Recreational red snapper fishing is highly important to Florida’s Gulf coast communities,” said FWC Executive Director Nick Wiley. “We are thankful for the leadership of Gov. Rick Scott, U. S. Department of Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and Florida’s Congressional delegation as well as the partnership across all five Gulf states in providing more sustainable fishing opportunities and sound fisheries management.”

This is the longest Gulf federal red snapper season since 2013. State waters will be open the rest of this week and, beginning Monday, June 19, will close Mondays through Thursdays through Sept. 4, except July 3 and 4. The three-day weekend federal waters season opens Friday, June 16. 

“Though we had to reduce state waters fishing days in the summer and fall, we are pleased to be able to offer more fishing access this summer to anglers across Florida,” Wiley said. 

“This is great news, especially for anglers on the central and southwest Gulf coast, where red snapper are not commonly found in state waters,” said FWC Vice Chairman Liesa Priddy. 

For more information about red snapper and other Florida fishing opportunities, visit MyFWC.com and click on “Gulf red snapper season news.”




Next step Sector Separation, as well as any thoughts of implementing catch shares, must go.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

The only people really adversely affected is the small charter guys with no federal reef permit. It's going to be really hard to find customers during the week.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

This will give them a good excuse to shut it down for good. This little venture will haunt the federal season for years to come.

Hope I'm wrong.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*What is best for the majority*

I too feel for the small charter guys & wish them the very best. It's a hard way to make a living. They deserve every $$$ they make!

You are wrong! What is best for the majority, not the few, must, and has been, addressed.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Thank the good lord it got extended. Now can we relax and talk about something else? I suppose the weekends aren't enough for some folks.... some will always have something to complain about.


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

Realtor said:


> Thank the good lord it got extended. Now can we relax and talk about something else? I suppose the weekends aren't enough for some folks.... some will always have something to complain about.


From the looks of it- some might just be getting started. Personally- I'm not really partial one way or another.... but I will try to take advantage of it! 
:thumbsup:


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

"some will always have something to complain about."

Isn't it the truth. If they have NOTHING they will make-up something!


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