# What am I doing wrong?



## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

Ok here goes, I just started getting intosaltwater fishing and it's not as easy asI thought. Just got where I can afford it. I got a bigger boat this year so I could brave to go further out. I get on here everyday to read what you guys have to post and got a lot of great info and good spots from you guys but every time I go out my luck stinks. I still have a hell of a time though !!!! I go to the Oriskany, coal barges, rock piles, bridge rubble, you name it I'm there. Every time no luck. I bottom fish mostly haven't got enough knowledge to troll yet. What the heck am I doin' wrong? What do you guys use for bait and frozen or live, how do you rig your line for bottom fishing. I know a lot of this depends on what your fishin' for any help would be greatly appreciated. :bowdown


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## Last Chance (Sep 27, 2007)

Your right,we really need more info as to what your wanting to target so we can steer you in the right direction as how to setup.When i am bottom bumping for snapper i use a carolina rig with around 4 ounces of weight and a #6 to #8 hook.I prefer live cigar minnows,but i always take one or two boxes of frozen just in case.They like squid also.Give us some more info on what you want to target and we can help you a little more.


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

Mostly snapper, and grouper I have been using frozen bait though squid, cigar minows, and shrimp. Never used live bait yet cause I didn't know where to get it and can't master the cast net yet. A few people have already e-mailed me with info on where to get live bait so next time out I'm gonna get some. I live in Milton but recently found the launch off scenic hwy.and I was looking for places that sale live bait in the area of the launch. As far as the rig. setup I was way off until you guys set me in the right direction.


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## talleyban (Sep 28, 2007)

One of the best things you can do is go on a fishing trip with a friend. Don't worry about getting the numbers. Just Shut-up listen and learn. You will find everyone has their own special way to boat the big one. Some will bump the bottom while others will swear by working the column.

You should think about investing in a cast net. If you don't want to do that you can visit the bait boat on the way out of the pass. Live bait will always out fish the frozen stuff.

Leader choice is also important. You want to use the smallest size possible. Fluorocarbon if you have it.

Good luck!!! I learn best by watching others then taking the techniques I think are the best.


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## sniper (Oct 3, 2007)

Trolling isnt that difficult. I never had anyone teach me. I just stuck a rod in the rod holder facing the back and put a strech 30 on it and I get something damn near everytime. My sure fire lure is the Red/ white strech.

As far as bottom fishing goes. Big fish like big bait. Instead of buying live bait try this:

Find a spot and anchor up. Start with small hooks and the squid you got. Send it to the bottom and reel it up a couple cranks. Something small will most likley hit it. It will bore the big fish but they will watch. Reel up what you catch. If it is legal use it as bait. Move to a bigger hook and send it down, reel up a couple cranks and wait for it. If you cant get anything to react to it reel it up a little at a time. Bigger fish are usualy higher up in the column. If you bring it up slow and cant get a bite, bring it all the way back into the boat and butterfly it. ( Cut the meat not the guts from the tail toward the gill but just enough to make it flappy.) Dont go all the way to the gill. Stop a little from the fin. send it down and HOLD ON!!! The bigger the bait, the bigger the fish! Sometime it takes a little longer for the big ones to bite but watching the little ones eat makes them hungry and territorial.That is why I like to start fishing the little ones first. Also remember if you are using a J-hook you have to set it and if you are on mono and in deep water there is a lot of strech. If youuse a circle hook just reel and the hook will do the work for you. Good luck.


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## sniper (Oct 3, 2007)

Forgot to add. I use no less than 6oz usualy 8oz or you may get cleaned off before you get to the bottom. I rig a fishfinder set up with about 4 foot of leader for bigger fish. FOr smaller I rig up a bottom dropper with 2 hooks and a pyramid weight on the bottom. I still use either 6 or 8 oz. Current will also play a big part in where you bait lands. Too little weight and you are off the rig by a long shot. watch your line as it drops and see if it starts drifting off. If it does figure how that will be on the bottom. If it drifts a lot use more weight. Also on the trolling thing. I never got bit off by a king but they can and you lose a $10 lure. You may want to use wire leader.


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

Maybe take someone out fishin with ya that knows differant techniques. Post in the take a sorry azz for a ride section and someone similar to me,may take ya up on an offer to go fishing on a boat! Trolling ain't that hard either,again first hand experience face to face is much easier than trying to type what to do and will stick further in your brain:mmmbeer


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

live bait is overrated for snapper. biggest snapper i have ever caught or seen caught was on either strips or massive chunks of dead bait. for grouper, it's my #1 choice, followed closely by a butterflied northern mackerel or bonita. Noone fishing with jigs can outfish me on a rig for amberjack if I have a variety of live bait. Not trying to boast, just trying to point out that live bait is king for amberjacks. Also, if you're workin the most public spots (which it sounds like you are), I wouldn't have your expectations too high. Troll one day over the edge and just watch your bottomfinder and start markin spots. Every time I run out, I probably snag around 6 new bottom spots, just from watchin my bottom finder.


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## JOHNJOHN205 (Oct 2, 2007)

i agree with the above post. a good bottom machine can be your best friend.a lot of the areas that you are trying to fish is not the bait rig etc it is the fact that the areas that you fishing are just to over fished.


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## David Ridenour (Sep 28, 2007)

> *bonita dan (10/16/2007)*Maybe take someone out fishin with ya that knows differant techniques. Post in the take a sorry azz for a ride section and someone similar to me,may take ya up on an offer to go fishing on a boat! Trolling ain't that hard either,again first hand experience face to face is much easier than trying to type what to do and will stick further in your brain:mmmbeer


You can waste a lot of time,gas and get very frustrated learning everything on your own. I wish I had a forum like this when I started fishing to save a lot of "lessons" learned the hard way.Learn by others mistakes because you won't live long enough to make them all yourself. Take Dan's advice as well as the others but take a guy that knows what he's doing and do yourself a big favor. Click the link below and offer a free trip in exchange for a few pointers and you won't be dissapointed.Or, you can contact one of the Captains on here and see what they would charge to go out with you on your boat using your stuff. Nice rig by the way! It looks capable of about any type of fishing offshore you could do in the area.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=SmallTxt>Need A Crew? Need A Ride? 
<SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlViewForumGroups_ctlForumGroups__ctl12_ctlPanelBar_ctlForums__ctl3_lblForumDescription><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="3%">







</TD><TD width="97%"><SPAN class=SmallTxt>If you have an opening and need a crew member, post it here. If your boat is in the shop and you have the fever, post it here and let folks know that you are available. You'd be suprised!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

Fluorocarbon leader is not a nessessity but an option. Millions of fish were caught before they invented fluoro. Use around 8 oz of lead egg sinker use a big swivel tie on around 4' to 5' of leader 40 or 50 lb test inshore and 80 to 100 in deeper water. I use a 7/0 or 8/0 inline wide gap owner circle hook with hugh success. Like expressed earlier live bait works best for grouper and butterflied is secondbest.and chunk or strips ( fresh cut not frozen ) for snapper. You basically filet the fish on both sides without cutting through the skin or meaton the head side and the tail side and remove the backbone just cut down the backbone on both sides. I preferhooking from lower to upper through the lips and leave as much as possible of the hook so you can bury the hook when mister big hits. Some people prefer to hook the fish through the eyes but if you have current ( which is more times than not the dead fish will twist, upright it looks like it is swimming. PM me if you need more info and good luck.


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

You guys have some really good ideas and advice but I think you made it when you said take someone with experience with me. I work offshore " fuel transport" and I'm gone till next thursday 25th, but when I get back I have to take you guys advice and just post aFREE ridein exchange for KNOWLEDGE! I got three weeks off if I get home on the 25th so plenty of time for fishin'. I appreciate all the help you guys give it's great to have a place like this to go for information and where people take the time to help:bowdown


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## Ocean Man (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm a big believer in scaling down your tackle size especially on the overfished public spots. Those fish have seen thousands of rigs dropped down near them.I use the smallest weight I can use and still have my line around the boat, the smallest hook that I can get away with the bait I'm using and 30-40lb fluorocarbon leader. Also I like to have several different baits. Some days the fish want nothing but live pinfish, other days they want squid or menhaden or cut bait. You just never know till you get out there. But the best advice is to take someone with you or go on their boat and pay attention to what they are doing and go from there.


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## recess (Oct 8, 2007)

Im with "blue hoo" the best spots are found trolling anywhere from the edge to the 360 drop.just watch the bottom machine intently the smallest of things hold fish and lots of them, in that depth they dont mark big if you mark something that looks like live bottom and some fish in the lower colum, Thats what your looking for .Due to our new regs on red snapper 2 fish doesnt take long at all, we usually stop on our way out before trolling at one of our deep water snapper spots in about 240 foot to get a quick limit of snapper before pulling lures.We mark anywhere from 3-6 spots every trip and the best thing about these spots almost nobody fishes them and if they do, they get there catch and move on to the next spot.We use all butterfly jigs or similar styles to fish that depth .snapper are usually the target. Find a {virgin} spot and it will last for years to come as long as you dont over fish it. I learned real fast that it is worth the time and gas to pass up the public spots and make the 20 mile run to the edge and beyond.Im just writing what works well for me and my father it might not be the route you want to go but its just nice to get a limit of snapper in a couple of mins then have the whole day to chase marlin, wahoo tuna, TROPHIES. Hope this helped. TEAM RECESS


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## parrothead (Oct 1, 2007)

Lets go sometime. Your boat or mine.Got lots of tackle, reels,so forth.Been many many many times.Maybe ill learn a few things along the way.Pm me,me and my son fish all the time.

Scott


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## true-king (Oct 2, 2007)

> *JOHNJOHN205 (10/16/2007)*a lot of the areas that you are trying to fish is not the bait rig etc it is the fact that the areas that you fishing are just to over fished.


well, it is also important to have a good rig. i've seen a few people out there on the wrecks fishing with those nasty looking walmart double-drop rigs, the ones full of hardware (clasps everywhere, swivels, crimps). make your tackle hard for the fish to see and your success will be much better. it is also very important to use your bottom machine andposition yourselfon good bottom.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

I started like you. Didn't know anything about fishing. Couldn't tell the difference between a bonita and a blackfin.

The best thing I ever did was go on a party boat a few times. Inexpensive, and I learned lots. Ask questions, most mates are very helpful. Another good way to learn is invite another fisherman to go with you. Sea-r-cy


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

Still getting great info from you guys!!!!!!


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## JOHNJOHN205 (Oct 2, 2007)

true-king,

that is not what i meant exactly. i personally make my own rigs. it is second nature for me to think that anyone whom knows what they are doing would not use those piece of crap rigs


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## feelingfishy (Oct 24, 2007)

I don't know much about fishing, but I would like to learn. I will help pay for gas and grub. let me know when you plan on going out. I am game. My goal is to reel in a king fish.


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## Boatless (Oct 25, 2007)

I used to have a boat and went bottom fishing all the time with pretty good luck. I am willing to go with you and take you to a few of my spots (still have my spots in my handheld gps). Not only can we get you on some fishable places, I can show you how I did it. There might be better ways to catch'em but I know I can catch em if they are there and biting. I can even give you some ideas on how to get them in an eating mood.

I got rid of my boat because I wasn't using it that much. And that is my problem now. My day job prevents me from being able to go when I choose. But anytime you are thinking about going, drop me a line. The worst thing that can happen is that I will not be able to go. I'll help with my share of the expenses. I just want to be able to fish when I can.

BTW - this time of year is pretty darn good for grouper and black fin tuna. Just gotta pick your days weather wise.


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## gmoney (Oct 3, 2007)

well first off, congrats on getting a bigger boat. i have had mine for a little over a year but its been broke down for about a year now:banghead it will be fixed in december though 

as far as trolling goes..if you had posted a bit earlier i would have told you that trolling is imo hands down easier than bottom fishing, unless you are trying for billfish. easiest thing to troll for around here are king mackeral. Goto your baitshop, buy yourself 6-8 dusters and 32# steel leader. start off by cutting a 6-8in piece of wire from the roll. using a haywire twist-if you dont know how to do this ask the clerk at the baitshop- attach a #4 tripple strenght trebble hook to one end. to the other end attach a second trebble hook. know cut an 18in piece of wire from the roll. again using the haywire twist, attach one end of the wire to one of the hooks..through the eye-never through the other wire. now take your duster and slide the end of the wire not connected to the hooks through the hole in the center of the duster. allow it to slide down to the hooks. taking the loose end of the wire, make another haywire twist. you know have a king rig use a snapswival to your main line and you can change out rigs quickly. to fish the rig, take your frozen cigar minnow and break his back just behind the dorsal fin. then spin the tail around several times being sure not to break the skin. hook the front trebble hook through the eye and out the skull, and set the other one loosely in the rear of the cigar minnow. or you can just let the rear hook dangle. with the duster on the cig will stay just below the surface and his tail will flap around making it look semi alive. when trolling you want to keep your speed at about 2-3 mph or 1-2kts. set the rods in the holder set the drag loose and just make figure eights or s curves over areas u suspect are holding fish..good place to start is any of the near shore public numbers. after you have caught a few you can alter the rig for larger baits and troll down the beach with bigger baits for the larger kings in the summer unfortunently king season is almost over and most of the larger fish are now offshore, but u can still get some 'snakes' in the 8-10lb range over your public numbers. 

one other thing i would point out is that you dont have to have a castnet to get live bait most of the year..a sabiki rig is almost a must have on any boat unless you want to use the baitman all the time. 

well this post is getting to be waaaaaaay too long so pm me if u want and ill give you my phone number, then you can call me and ill give you any help i can.

good luck,

Glen


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

Well I'm finally flying home form Canada "work" today. Got all exited about FISHING with all the advice from you guys and hopefully get a few of the people on here to tag along with me and show me a thing or two, but I looked at the weather report and "crap" 4-6's thru wed. :reallycrying Oh well hopefully it'lllay down in a few days.


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Sea-r-cy (10/19/2007)*I started like you. Didn't know anything about fishing. Couldn't tell the difference between a bonita and a blackfin.






The difference between a bonita and a blackfin is that bonita are usually available closer in and smaller so they make better wahoo bait. Blackfin tend to be bigger and found in deeper areas so they are better for marlin bait. However, small ones of either species can work well for yellowfin tuna, wahoo and marlin.



Anyway, the key to successful fishing begins with nutrition. Always start the day with sausage biscuits with cheese and mustard. Popeye's spicy chicken and skittles are other prerequisites. The rest is all semantics.


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

id reccomend you go to the pier to watch the fish and how they react to your presentation, then watch the other fishermen to see how they catch them.


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## Get'n Wade (Oct 28, 2007)

Sometimes anchoring on wreck is better than drifting on a wreck, but if you dont know how to drift a wreck, you are going to have a real hard time anchoringon it. Plus your going to risk losing an anchor or be so far off of it you might as well stayed home. Put a piece of tape or flag on your Bowrail (flags are not just for looks), as you approach the wreck gauge and estimate current and wind by watching the flag/current ,(do this a couple of times and watch how your boat reacts/Tracks on your plotter. Adjust. Once you determine an appoximate drift, run a little further past the wreck turn the boat towards the anticipated drift and engage the motor in and out of reverse to control the drift rate while working towards the wreck/waypoint.(Going a little further also allows you time to get your baits down as you approach the wreck,(try several different weights 2-6 oz. on these drifts because they cover different depthsaccording to the boats drift speed and current), in a light wind and current sometimes you can stay right on top of the waypoint just idling in reverse. It takes practice,(opening the canvas on your boat helps slow you down),but being on orskirting a waypoint can mean all the difference. It is tough to fish and captain doing this but I set up a spinning outfit w/ a 3oz. carolina rig 36" leader & a 3 or 4/0 mutu hookw/ a whole live or dead bait(as long as it is fresh)and as soon as the boat gets right, I run back open the bail leave it open till it slacks up,rip out an additional 20-30 yards then close the bail ,stick it in the rod holder.I use this as a drift gauge. Reverse till its slack, then neutral,line gets tight ,Reverse. Criss Cross The wreck this way,(watch your graph waypointfeatures as they scroll across your screen)most of the big snapper seem on be on the skirts or just after. I've caught alot of fish this way. Dont over gear for snapper. They are light biters most of the time, but like the guy said prior butterfly or use a big bait with more weight with this method also ,just make sure the rodis in the hands of the rightperson. Dont be scared to use 4-7oz.Jigs on these passes(Work them fast dont reel).Fish seem tolike a bait coming from one direction one day and from another direction the next. Overcast day is better under 100-120 feet. Heavier weight is necessary over that depthunless its calm just use as light of asinker as needed, some of the biggest snapper are caught on freelined cigar minnows(usually while anchored). Learn tides ,moon,water temps and Electronics are your best Friend when bottom fishing.. I've fished wrecks 4 miles out of the pass, on some days you would swear there is not a fish down there, then on an over cast day thats2-4 ft.seas, 4 people will limit out in 2 hours. If you anchor use mutiple weights and leader lenths and always freeline a bait on wire and one on mono out back, with bottom linescast/pitch up towards the bow or out to the sides and dump the line to it and let it drift back.(Chum!..From bow). Introduce bait into slick,try to duplicate the fall rate or right below(use split shots or 1/2 ,1 ,2 ,3 oz.sinkers).Good luck!! Take this advice and add it to all above. Trial and erroris what it takes. But there aint noting like it!! I tried to make this as brief and informative as possible. I have fished all my life offshore on someone elses boat ,but I was in the same situation as you a few years ago rigging and learningyour own boat.Watch the weather.


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

Sorry guys for not getting up with anyone when I was at home. I didn't get any time to fish, maybe next time home from work I can get up with some of you guys and plan a trip!!


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