# Labor Day 2013 Dive report LION FISH STING



## naclh2oDave

We got a bit of a late start on Monday with the weather rolling thru and all. But we got out and dove with no complications. By the time that we fueled the boat and launched the rain was over and never once got rained on the whole day, despite water spouts in the bay. The radar showed the storms coming thru but they all showed them inshore, so we left the hill and had a good day offshore.

We had 4 divers, planned on 3 dives a piece with it being a late start. Otherwise we would plan on 4 dives a piece. I misplaced my GoPro so no dive or boat footage on this day. The theme for the day was Lionfish, but we got some meat for the cooler too. We stayed pretty close on the first dive and dropped the first two divers, the current proved too strong and that dive was aborted, erring on the side of caution. So further out we went. The further south we headed, the calmer it got. Finally ending up on average about 20 miles out we started our routine of diving 2 divers up 2 divers down. 

On my second dive I was hit by a lion fish while trying to manage them and collecting them on my polespear, on my left hand, middle finger middle knuckle. My best description of this is hitting yourself full swing with a molten red hot hammer. And as quick and bad as the pain hit at depth, it just got worse once I got topside. Once there I tried all the usual tricks, I held it over my head, I even PEED ON IT, I put it in my wetsuit to find some heat, I held it in the sun, I put it in the water coming from the boat motor. NONE of this helped until I unscrewed the hose bib connector from the Yamaha 225 and got to the HOT water. Now, by hot I mean I could not hold my hand in the water for more than about 5 seconds.....BUT IT WORKED. I would cup my hand and hold the hot water in it to ease the pain. The pain was bad, and it traveled from my middle knuckle down to my hand and made my whole hand ache. But the hot water from the hose connection worked very well. By the time my surface interval was over and I spent several minutes soaking my hand in the hot water the pain was gone and I was ready to go again. 

Just for a day of lion fish Killing I had come up with a few ideas, one of them was a lion fish collection bag. I have seen the bags for sale at the local dive shops and they def. seemed that the holes on the bottom were going to be too small to allow enough water to flow thru while swimming, so I came up with an idea to (1) beat the price the local shops were charging and (2) overcome the problem that I could foresee with the lack of water flow thru the bags currently being marketed. My idea was to use the existing concept of a lobster bag that has the one way trap door to stuff the lion fish or lobster in with a bottom zipper but to beef up the protection factor with an inexpensive liner. I found that you can get the old military "waterproof" sleeping bag bags, rubberized interior canvas exterior, online for about $2.50 a piece. So ordered those here Amazon.com: Buying Choices: USGI Army Navy Waterproof Laundry Bag ("Dry Bag"), Set of 2 . Then I cut a hole in the bottom just big enough to fit over a lobster inn here Amazon.com: Lobster Inn Bag with Zipper Closure: Sports & Outdoors I attached the rubberized bag over the lobster inn with a piece of ruber tubing that I had lying around.

With this setup there is plenty of water flow, a bottom zipper to allow for easy dumping into the cooler and no escape for any wiley creatures that are stuffed into it.

Today the pain in my hand would best be described as the day after hitting yourself with a molten red hot hammer. So now I will be searching for a new pair of puncture resistant gloves, I am thinking leather.

The tally for the day was 5 trigger, 2 scamp, 1 gag, 19 lion fish (one of which must be some kind of record) and a very sore hand. But there were some lessons learned and some knowledge passed. Sorry no video.


Sorry, here are the links to purchase the set-up...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DYNPU/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004RE6W3E/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## naclh2oDave

The next part of this episode is that I think I may have also figured out a better way to cook these tasty little critters. And do not mistake this, these are tasty critters! On several occasions I have gone thru the whole process of cleaning, gutting and filleting these sometimes quite small fish. But I accidentally figured out that if you hose them with a good stream of water the scales come right off. So I figured that just like a blue gill fish fry if you knock off the heads, dig out the guts and of course cut off all of the spines these little critters should fry up nicely. Report to follow...


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## Firefishvideo

Hurts don't it!  
Nice tip on the hose bib off the engine trick. I'll have to research a little.... I'm not sure what that does to the engine - but if I can prove to my buddy ( the boat owner ) that it does no harm ....I'll surely be doing that next time!
Nice bag. I don't think that the water flow is that big of an issue ...until you try to pull the bag into the boat.....then its a PITA.
I think I'm gonna try to tie a rope through the 2 holes - as a handle ....and lift it out of the water from the bottom. If lionfish don't escape through the top when its lifted this way it will quickly drain the water...and solve the main issue with the dive shop bags.

I like to prep my fish just like you are....but I use a pair of shears to clean them...including the cut around the gut cavity and past the head.
***Keep killing these suckers....and be safe!***


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## afogg

Great report, awesome job with the heat application. I still haven't cooked them whole yet, I'm the guy filleting every single one!


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## naclh2oDave

Thanks guys. Yeah I use a good pair of shears too, I always start with them first cutting every fin off. Not shown in the pictures.

One interesting observation that I made while cleaning the lion fish is that no flies came in to check out the gut bucket or the meat. As soon as I was done done with the last lion and started with the trigger fish the flies came in. I wonder if they know something that I don't know...


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## Disco

Sorry for the dumb question but you said that your going to fry them right? What do you do about the bones?

Also I saw a youtube video of a guy harvesting lion fish using a pole spear and when he had them on the spear he snipped all the fins off while still on the bottom. SO there is no chance of getting stung as long as your wearing protective gloves like he was. Then there is no need for a big bag to lug them all around in either.


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## Firefishvideo

Disco said:


> Sorry for the dumb question but you said that your going to fry them right? What do you do about the bones?
> 
> Also I saw a youtube video of a guy harvesting lion fish using a pole spear and when he had them on the spear he snipped all the fins off while still on the bottom. SO there is no chance of getting stung as long as your wearing protective gloves like he was. Then there is no need for a big bag to lug them all around in either.


 You can cut the fins at depth if you are only collecting a few fish.
If you are collecting a bunch of fish....you will not have time to cut all those fins....its a waste of dive time.
I quit cutting the fins...and started getting 20-50 per dive...instead of 5-10.


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## Billybob+

There are two kinds of spearfishermen who target lionfish, those that have been stuck and those that will be stuck.


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## coolbluestreak

Nice report Dave, good luck with the hand!


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## coolbluestreak

oops, repost


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## jspooney

Dang Dave, looks like that hurt. I've been gearing up for lionfish but having second thoughts after seeing that!


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## Telum Pisces

The things we do to eat tasty animals. Great report man.


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## no woryz

Good post Dave.... way to get a few....


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## aquatic argobull

I've been stuck a couple times, but none have been (even close to) as bad as what Dave describes. More like a bee sting or a fire ant bite. I know my stings haven't been very deep, just enough to scratch the surface. Dave, you allergic to bee stings? Was the puncture wound deep?


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## naclh2oDave

I'm not allergic to bee stings or anything but this one went CLEAN through my finger and back out again. I don't know if something broke off in there or not but it feels like my knuckle is broken.


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## sealark

naclh2oDave said:


> I'm not allergic to bee stings or anything but this one went CLEAN through my finger and back out again. I don't know if something broke off in there or not but it feels like my knuckle is broken.


You need to get an X ray of that finger. And antibiotics if in fact it went through your finger. Ouch my finger hurts thinking about it.


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## Telum Pisces

sealark said:


> You need to get an X ray of that finger. And antibiotics if in fact it went through your finger. Ouch my finger hurts thinking about it.


Dave,

I would listen to this advice. Most people that get a barb of any sealife stuck in them usually end up going to the doctor way to late when the infection is going crazy and it takes a lot longer to heal than if they would have been checked out earlier.


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## sealark

What happens with the lionfish is they don't inject venom. They have a flesh sheath covering the stinging barbs. When they Pierce the sheath slides down as the point goes in. Then the protein is exposed to the victims point of impact. If that barb is still in there the more protein and infection stuff you get. Hot water breaks down the protein but not the bachteria.


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## naclh2oDave

It happened again. I went diving today and was stuck again I am in the ER now.


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## Firefishvideo

naclh2oDave said:


> It happened again. I went diving today and was stuck again I am in the ER now.


Dang! Sorry to hear that!
Let us know how that works out.
I had one go through my finger about 2 months ago.....no spine left behind thank goodness....but the poison and the swelling did a number on the joints and tissues. Its just now getting back to normal.
I changed up my bag ....which has been good so far.
Next will be to improve my gloves somehow.


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## naclh2oDave

I'll tell you one thing the leather gloves still let the spine through. On the ECRA website there are a pair of gloves that are supposed to be needle proof.


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## aquatic argobull

naclh2oDave said:


> I'll tell you one thing the leather gloves still let the spine through. On the ECRA website there are a pair of gloves that are supposed to be needle proof.


Damn man sorry to hear that. If ur gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough


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## naclh2oDave

aquatic argobull said:


> If ur gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough


Yup, my dad used to tell me this all of the time!

With all of this being said, I went diving here again yesterday and got HIT AGAIN!! (Both hits have occurred while I had multiple fish on my single point pole spear.) This one was MUCH worse, I wonder if frequent hits make it more painful. I did swap to a leather glove but the spine went through it like BUTTER. Do not rely on leather. After I came up from depth (125) the pain got exponentially worse and I had to give up diving for the day, also made a trip to the ER for xrays and antibiotics last night because I was so afraid of something being broken off in my thumb. 

For the water this time we unhooked the hot water hose bib from the motor side and filled a bucket to soak my hand in. This allowed for the run back in without me sitting in the back soaking right from the motor. I think I got second degree burns from the water but that was still better that the pain from the sting, which I will unabashedly admit was BY FAR the worst pain that I have ever felt and it lasted for 4 hours or more it is still swollen and I have been up since 2 am icing it down. Per the ER's instruction to help deal with the swelling.


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## Firefishvideo

naclh2oDave said:


> I'll tell you one thing the leather gloves still let the spine through. On the ECRA website there are a pair of gloves that are supposed to be needle proof.


 I have a pair that ECRA gave me..... they work fairly well for handling fish on the surface.
They do not protect the back or sides of your hands and fingers....and they would not be much fun to dive it.
While they do offer some protection ....I have still had a spine penetrate them! I believe the spines are much sharper than a hypodermic needle!


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## sealark

I believe the spines are much sharper than a hypodermic needle![/QUOTE said:


> Yes sir mother nature at her finest.


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## WhackUmStackUm

Bummer. Sorry to hear about the nasty stings.

I have been stung three times this year. Lucky for me, each sting was less painful. The first one felt like I had hit my hand with a hammer. Although it has not stopped me from spearing them, I have a increased respect for their spines. :yes:


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer

WhackUmStackUm said:


> Bummer. Sorry to hear about the nasty stings.
> 
> I have been stung three times this year. Lucky for me, each sting was less painful. The first one felt like I had hit my hand with a hammer. Although it has not stopped me from spearing them, I have a increased respect for their spines. :yes:


I wonder if the human body will start to develop an immunity to the toxin, like it will with a poisonous snake bite. After about 3 bites from the same type of snake, the toxin has no effects.


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## Yellowrivermudder

naclh2oDave said:


> Yup, my dad used to tell me this all of the time!
> 
> With all of this being said, I went diving here again yesterday and got HIT AGAIN!! (Both hits have occurred while I had multiple fish on my single point pole spear.) This one was MUCH worse, I wonder if frequent hits make it more painful. I did swap to a leather glove but the spine went through it like BUTTER. Do not rely on leather. After I came up from depth (125) the pain got exponentially worse and I had to give up diving for the day, also made a trip to the ER for xrays and antibiotics last night because I was so afraid of something being broken off in my thumb.
> 
> For the water this time we unhooked the hot water hose bib from the motor side and filled a bucket to soak my hand in. This allowed for the run back in without me sitting in the back soaking right from the motor. I think I got second degree burns from the water but that was still better that the pain from the sting, which I will unabashedly admit was BY FAR the worst pain that I have ever felt and it lasted for 4 hours or more it is still swollen and I have been up since 2 am icing it down. Per the ER's instruction to help deal with the swelling.


If you say it hurt, than it must've got you good. Collecting lionfish isn't something I've put on my "to do" list as I mentioned to you last night Duder. I hope the swelling has subsided though. Stop touching the damn spines Dave! Lol. Tight lines!!! YRM


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## Jason

Dang.....stingray hit, now a lionfish hit.....You going to be on the news like Jason!!!! hahaha One of them shows I watch had lionfish spearing but they cut the fins off on the bottom before harvesting. Wouldn't that be easier? I have no clue myself...


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## naclh2oDave

It might be easier Jason and possibly safer, but if you are into it for numbers it takes entirely too long to cut the fins off. Most of the time you get on bottom and see 50 or 100 or more and you just get in too big of a hurry trying to knock them out and in the bag to deal with them at the cleaning table. There is no doubt in my mind that their spines are sharper that a needle. I wonder if they have the ability to attack and steer their spines. I have a video of the incident I think, but I have not looked at it yet. Will get it tonight.


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## Jason

naclh2oDave said:


> It might be easier Jason and possibly safer, but if you are into it for numbers it takes entirely too long to cut the fins off. Most of the time you get on bottom and see 50 or 100 or more and you just get in too big of a hurry trying to knock them out and in the bag to deal with them at the cleaning table..


Holy Crap....they are that thick out there!!!! DANG!!!!:blink:


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## dobs

Have not been "hit" by a lion fish yet...but got hit by a Sail Cat last year. Very similar to the pain described....Hot water worked, with benadryl. Might be something to toss in your dive bag.....but know what it does to you. Doesn't bother me but knocks my wife out


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## Yellowrivermudder

*Huh?*



dobs said:


> Have not been "hit" by a lion fish yet...but got hit by a Sail Cat last year. Very similar to the pain described....Hot water worked, with benadryl. Might be something to toss in your dive bag.....but know what it does to you. Doesn't bother me but knocks my wife out


I KNOW Naclh2odave has been stuck by a few hard heads or gaftopsail cats before, and I haven't once heard him say anything about how much it hurt. From what he's described, the pain from a lionfish spine going through a finger is in no way associated to the pain from a little catfish barb. Hell, I've been jabbed by a leatherjack and didn't have the pain and swelling that he had. I wouldn't associate the two. He was in REAL pain from the lionfish. He is still experiencing "arthritic conditions" in the joints hit. Not to take away from your comment duder, but from what I've gathered, benadryl isn't going to have much of an effect on this type of sting. Tight lines!!!! YRM


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## dobs

Having never been a victim to lionfish barbs, I can't compare. Having been impaled through the meaty part of the hand between thumb and fingers by a gafsail, I can tell you the toxin is very painful...from hand to shoulder painful with it being most noticable in the joints. 

Hardtops as far as I know, do not have the same toxin on their fins....anyhow, it sucked and I'm content to say it probably sucked less then what your bud is going through. Hot water breaks down the toxin.....

Cheers!


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## naclh2oDave

UPDATE---
It has been about 3 weeks since my lion fish sting. The swelling went away about a week ago but the pain is still in my thumb bone from my first knuckle down to my wrist feels like I closed it in a car door, I think the bone must have been punctured. Also my had has been peeling all over my knuckles and between my fingers.

If you are going after them keep an antihistamine onboard it was suggested by the DAN Dr and I would suggest some good pain killers but be aware that you might consider not diving anymore after you take any kind of meds, consult your Dr.

Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/...013-Dive-report-LION-FISH-STING#ixzz2gZoyH0Y8


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