# BEAR ATTACK, we waiting for 1 to kill a child?



## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

*Black bear kills pet goat*

Comments 1 
September 06, 2011 7:12 AM

LOIS SWOBODA 
Florida Freedom Newspapers
CARRABELLE — An encounter with bears in Carrabelle led to the death of a family pet.
Jim and Juanita Brown brought home Coco, a pet goat, from Mississippi a little over two years ago along with her kid Oreo. The two goats lived as family pets in a wire enclosure behind the Brown home on County 67.
On Tuesday night Aug. 23, a bear entered the small wooden shed Coco and Oreo use as a barn and killed Coco. The death was the culmination of a series of encounters the Browns had with two bears over the previous week.
Beginning on Sunday, Aug. 21, Juanita Brown’s 14-year old Chihuahua, “Little Bit,” flushed a small bear from cover and chased it down an alley beside the Brown’s home.
This was Little Bit’s second encounter with a bear. Last year, the 5-pound dog treed a bear the Browns called Homer that had a habit of walking through their yard each evening at 8 p.m.
The Browns recently saw two bears in the yard, the small one chased by their dog and a much larger male.
Juanita said she believes the bear that killed Coco was the smaller one because it tore down the door, and dragged the goat out through a 2-foot by 2-foot door, and then 100 feet across the goat pen but was unable to get it over the fence.
Juanita found Coco dead in the goat yard. The following morning, she called the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and spoke to wildlife biologist Adam Warwick, a bear specialist, who told her he would come to her home.
While waiting for Warwick at the table in her backyard, Juanita witnessed the larger bear eating Coco’s remains.
“I had a clear shot to the bear,” she said. “But I was afraid to shoot it because I didn’t want them to put me in jail.”
In October, 2006, Juanita shot and killed a bear that had entered her back porch with a .22-calliber rifle. Earlier this year, Larry Covell, an FWC bear response agent, was badly bitten by a bear he had trapped at the Brown’s home.
Jim and Juanita Brown say they see signs of bears on their property daily and encounter them on a regular basis.
Juanita said she sought out the press after this last encounter because, “I’m trying to get a bear season opened up down here. There’s too many bears. Maybe just a month. Or at least give homeowners the right to protect their livestock and property.
“If it was a person, I could shoot him, but you can’t shoot a bear,” she said.
Her husband expressed concern for children waiting at bus stops in the early morning hours.
In a telephone interview, Warwick said he and Ron Copely, an FWC wildlife technician, had trapped two bears on the Brown’s property on the evening following Coco’s death. One was an immature male weighing around 140 pounds, the other a 9-year male weighing in at 380 pounds.
Warwick said he too believed the small bear, attracted to the pen by open containers of food for the goats, had killed the goat. When the bear broke into the goat shed, it was probably more interested in the goat’s corn than the goats and struck and killed Coco when she became frightened and agitated, he said.
Warwick said the large male was probably attracted by the scent of the dead goat in the course of foraging for food. The two bears will be released in the national forest.
“Neither of these bears has done anything to warrant euthanizing it,” he said. “They were just being bears.”


Read more: http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/goat-43314-kills-pet.html#ixzz1XBDO3C7o
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## buckhunter32175 (Mar 9, 2010)

*Bear Attack*

Sounds like granny has already got one rug...........i bet she doesn't call the FWC again for any further problems!!


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## Lineman (Sep 1, 2011)

Do bears ever simply dis-appear?


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## Bone Yard (Feb 2, 2009)

Under florida law, if that were a man that came in her yard and killed her goat, she would have every right to shoot him. She can't shoot a bear for the same thing? It's time the FWC opened a bear season. Actually they have been trying to for a couple a yesrs now, but the activists have been putting the preasure on them. If they just opened a season for "Activists" they would become exstinct without firing shot.


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## joebuck (Oct 1, 2007)

Yep, yep, yep!!! Put in a tag system like the alligator season. I know a BUNCH of guys who would buy those tags!!!!!



Bone Yard said:


> Under florida law, if that were a man that came in her yard and killed her goat, she would have every right to shoot him. She can't shoot a bear for the same thing? It's time the FWC opened a bear season. Actually they have been trying to for a couple a yesrs now, but the activists have been putting the preasure on them. If they just opened a season for "Activists" they would become exstinct without firing shot.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Bone Yard said:


> Under florida law, if that were a man that came in her yard and killed her goat, she would have every right to shoot him. She can't shoot a bear for the same thing? It's time the FWC opened a bear season. Actually they have been trying to for a couple a yesrs now, but the activists have been putting the preasure on them. If they just opened a season for "Activists" they would become exstinct without firing shot.


 
Florida law does not give someone the right to shoot someone else because they came on their property and killed an animal. Animals are considered property and someone killing them or trespassing to kill them does not always constitute a threat to the homeowners life. Bad info that will get you locked in a prison. I agree that bear season should be opened up for a short time.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

The Castle Law certainly give FL residents to shoot to kill people trespassing and especially with intent to hurt them, or their property. Personally I am not going to kill someone breaking in my truck, but breaking in my home is another matter!

OH no don't hurt a bear though...you will go to jail if it is not attacking YOU...There is a bear season being considered and close to being done for us but the tags will be high...and you will not buy one to defend your property.


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## coachmo32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Do bears ever simply dis-appear?

LOL..


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

FrankwT said:


> The Castle Law certainly give FL residents to shoot to kill people trespassing and especially with intent to hurt them, or their property. Personally I am not going to kill someone breaking in my truck, but breaking in my home is another matter!
> 
> OH no don't hurt a bear though...you will go to jail if it is not attacking YOU...There is a bear season being considered and close to being done for us but the tags will be high...and you will not buy one to defend your property.


The castle law gives you the right to protect your life while on your property....dont give people the impression that they can shoot someone for destroying private property. Deadly force can only be used to defend yours or anothers life that is in danger. Quoting the law wrong is what will give people a false idea of what they can defend with deadly force and cause them to be arrested. You dont have the right to shoot people trespassing, or we would be working 20 homicides a day and locking homeowners up for murder.


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## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

joebuck said:


> Yep, yep, yep!!! Put in a tag system like the alligator season. I know a BUNCH of guys who would buy those tags!!!!!


X2 I'd pay to play


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## scootman (Oct 6, 2007)

I can't help but be impressed with the Chihuahua, “Little Bit”. He chased a bear down the road last week and he treed another bear last year. WOW! He must be the "Dirk Diggler" of the Chihuahua world because he has big uns.....

Scoots


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Black bears are pretty docile unless you get between a momma and her cubs, or find a sick or wounded animal or corner one.

Somebody sent me this link a couple years ago. It's pretty cool.

http://www.bear.org/website/

Good link for teachers.

They track a dozen bears or so, they have a relationship that allows them to interface without darting them.

They also have webcams during the winter right in the dens.

STUPID maybe, but they've not had an incident in 30 years.

BROWN Bears are a different animal.

Jim


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

I do believe the Castle Law allows you to use deadly force on your property to protect property or life, it even extends to the walmart parking lot to protect your life and vehicle. I am not an attorney but that is what I have been told by people who should know. I would advise anyone to get your own legal advice and not trust anything legal you read on a forum. After that you can decide what YOU would do. I am not one of those that sit in an IHOP and get gunned down without defending myself. To protect my life and that of my family I will kill, that is a personal decision and if there are legal ramifications I will deal with that at that time. I already said as a personal decision I would not kill to protect property ouside my front door.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Frank, Ive been a law enforcement officer in Fl for many years.I can tell you that the law soesnt give anyone the right to defend inanimate property with deadly force.You stated that it gives you the right to killa trespasser.Thats not correct. Shooting an intruder to your home is apples and oranges to shooting a trespasser or someone destroying a piece of property.I too will defend mine and others life with whatever force necessary, but only when needed. You do what you feel is rigjt but please think before you act.Those legal ramifications are not so nice for a bad decision . I dont know everything but I do know the law in Florida.An attorney is not the person to seek legal advice from i think regards to legalities of actions. Attorneys merely are professional arbitrators who try their best to save your ass after the fact. Good luck...sorry for the thread derail...Now open up bear season.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

I am going to ask an attorney the law everytime and then get 20 2nd opinions...LOL I said to get legal advice, read the statute and then do what you feel is right...how non committal can I be?? Just found this...

*The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:*

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Frank do what you want to..Thats states exactly what I said and not what you did. It states that you can defend life. Do as you stated and shoot a mere trespasser and you will catch a homicide charge.Maybe that attorney can put some money on your books for phone calls and cheese crackers.. again good luck! I dont have to look it up, its my profession. Law enforcement is the determining agency to decide if you get charged, not an attorney. If you just need the last word like most of your arguements then by all means go ahead. Im done. I just hope my advice prevents at least one person from making a mistake based on your terrible interpretation of the law. Oh and the statute is 776.013, not some Wikipedia reference.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

"I heard a noise in the goat pen -- I went outside to see what might be going on -- unsure of what I might encounter, I went armed. Upon shining my flashlight equipped firearm into the goat pen -- I see a bear attacking one of my goats. I yell at the bear in an attempt to scare it off. The bear turns its attention from the goat to me -- and begins to move in my direction. I was in fear of my life -- and I fired to stop the threat. The bear was killed by my shot...."

I think that pretty much provides the cover necessary to deal with the bear problem by the homeowner next time.


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't know if I'd call a bear killing a goat a "BEAR ATTACK." It's just a bear, being a bear. That's one of the things bears eat. It's like the people getting upset with wolves in Yellowstone for killing elk. That's what wolves do. They're just being wolves. They were here before we were, just like the bears. I'm just not into predator hunting, I guess. If you kill it, eat it.


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Check The Law*

The "Castle Law/Doctrine gives me the right to defend myself OR others from bodily harm,in ANY place that I have a legal right to be. NOT SIMPLY MY PROPERTY. If I come upon a woman being sexually assaulted I can stick my Kimber in the assailants ear and pull the trigger.

Bottom line is the jury,these are the people that you have to convince. LEO's are an after the fact organization. You get assaulted,robbed,etc,they show up after the occurrence and do the paperwork. Ask any LEO with 20+ years experience,how many felonies have they managed to stop while it was occurring and see what they say. 

My advice to everyone out there is to never,ever,ask a LEO to interpret the law. --- SAWMAN


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

SAWMAN said:


> The "Castle Law/Doctrine gives me the right to defend myself OR others from bodily harm,in ANY place that I have a legal right to be. NOT SIMPLY MY PROPERTY. If I come upon a woman being sexually assaulted I can stick my Kimber in the assailants ear and pull the trigger.
> 
> Bottom line is the jury,these are the people that you have to convince. LEO's are an after the fact organization. You get assaulted,robbed,etc,they show up after the occurrence and do the paperwork. Ask any LEO with 20+ years experience,how many felonies have they managed to stop while it was occurring and see what they say.
> 
> *My advice to everyone out there is to never,ever,ask a LEO to interpret the law.* --- SAWMAN


 
you say this, but you basically confirmed what donedeal said. i'm not disagreeing with frank - it's almost like yall are arguing the same point. you can't shoot a trespasser for damaging your property. if you feel threatened, whether it be at home, in your car, etc, castle doctrine protects you from prosecution and being sued by the family of the assailant. seems pretty easy to me. of course i guess we could get into "if i shot someone what i would tell the responding LEO is..."


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

So much for my bear attack OP...LOL

Officer "I felt like my life was threatened and I was in fear of my life" *period*, end of statement, stop talking.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Frank, you have no clue what im saying or what you are talking about...idiocy at its best...If you knew anything about law enforcement, you would realize that felonies are stopped daily by LEO's. Keep giving such good advice..people need you! NOT!


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## specktackler57 (May 15, 2011)

Bear steak?sounds good to me.i would have defended my property,stated the bear made a run at me.self defence.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Done, this is not a LEO bashing thread but it seems like you have made it that way, I am sorry as I respect what you do and am glad I have someone to report a crime to..

Just how many felonies have you stopped before they happened in 20 years of service *compared* to the number of reports you have written and investigated AFTER the crime was committed. Muggings and burglaries are seldom stopped but are reported after the fact, Leos' write the report and investigate after the fact , seldom before it. Facts are facts and the police respond much more that stop crimes before they happen and I am not talking about traffic tickets. Also Leo's enforce the laws as they interpret them given their knowledge, ask 4 officers and like the IRS/FWC you are more than likely going to get different answers, they are not qualified to make laws or give you legal advice, just interpret and enforce.

God Bless our Leo's and always respect them and treat them courteously.


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

*The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:*

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm,

i don't see how one could take this to mean that if someone trespasses on your property. that is not "intruding into your home."

and as far as LEOs preventing crimes/felonies - what about responding to a domestic disturbance call before it turns into domestic violence? or arresting some who is dui before it turns into dui manslaughter? or someone stalking before it turns into kidnapping/rape/murder? who's to say how many felonies they prevent on a daily basis? IMO we've got a LEO here attempting to prevent a possible felony where someone may read this post and think they can go blow away anyone who comes on their property uninvited.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I thought we were talking about a bear? If I go out to my barn and a bear is being a bear(eating one of my animals), then I would shoot him. I would not wait for him to charge and risk me missing. Just like me finding a burglar in my house. I'm not going to wait for him/her to tell me they are armed and intend to use it. If they are in the midst of committing a crime, then I will act under the presumption that they would commit another crime(murder) and conduct myself accordingly.


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

MrFish said:


> Just like me finding a burglar in my house. I'm not going to wait for him/her to tell me they are armed and intend to use it. If they are in the midst of committing a crime, then I will act under the presumption that they would commit another crime(murder) and conduct myself accordingly.


you just basically quoted the castle doctrine. and i agree 1000% with what you said.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

There you go Mr Fish, well said...


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

K-Bill said:


> *The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:*
> 
> One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm,
> 
> ...


Thanks K- Bill


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## drifterfisher (Oct 9, 2009)

This law you all are talking about is BS.If you are a private citizen in the state of florida you will go to jail if you try to defend yourself.Been there done that.After several thousand dollars in attorney fees the charges were dropped,this was in escambia county fl.
In case your wondering I had a base ball bat,he had a truck,driving at high speed repeatedly through my yard. I went to jail,he didnt even get a ticket.LEO's are not high on my friendly list,never have met one who was even nice,most, again most try to be the badass tough guy type,when in uniform.Sorry to all you LEo's on here but I dont feel sorry for you at all.
Now as to the bear attack on the goat,if you have a bear coming around regularly,get some rock salt for the first two rounds in the shotgun,buck shot for the rest.Coupla rounds of rocksalt deter really well,otherwise just shoot it and tell the LEO it came at you,good luck though,they will haul you off.
I'm moving from this awful state as soon as I get the money,been here all my life and hate it.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

Not a Bear , but I had another dog problem at my hunting home with packs of dogs endangering my wife and grandchildren who hike , play and ride ATV's they also killed my 3 legged doe and several fawns besides a doe who died trying to protect her fawn.
ECSO told me to call Animal Control. they said I needed complaints from two other families which is impossible. they told me to call Florida Wild Life because they were killing my animals and fawns. Florida wild life said Dogs are domestic animals and wouldn't do anything about it. 
I called ECSO again and told them about the run around I got , and the lady just said " do what you gotta do!" / problem solved. 
the Bear could be dealt with in silent ways , dig a hole ad bury it , = What Bear?

It really isn't the cops to blame , it is the Law and the way the laws written. only a progressive liberal would write a law that places a humans life below a bear or an endangered bug , rat or mouse


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

*hmmm*



drifterfisher said:


> This law you all are talking about is BS.If you are a private citizen in the state of florida you will go to jail if you try to defend yourself.Been there done that.After several thousand dollars in attorney fees the charges were dropped,this was in escambia county fl.
> In case your wondering I had a base ball bat,he had a truck,driving at high speed repeatedly through my yard. I went to jail,he didnt even get a ticket.LEO's are not high on my friendly list,never have met one who was even nice,most, again most try to be the badass tough guy type,when in uniform.Sorry to all you LEo's on here but I dont feel sorry for you at all.
> Now as to the bear attack on the goat,if you have a bear coming around regularly,get some rock salt for the first two rounds in the shotgun,buck shot for the rest.Coupla rounds of rocksalt deter really well,otherwise just shoot it and tell the LEO it came at you,good luck though,they will haul you off.
> I'm moving from this awful state as soon as I get the money,been here all my life and hate it.


I bet there is more to this story!


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## tips n tails (Mar 2, 2011)

What I dont understand is whether it be wild dogs or a bear, whats the problem with popping it off? Just kill it, keep your mouth shut and end of story. No reason to have lose sleep over it. I know when I was a Farm Bureau Member they would help fight the state if wild dogs, bears or cougars would attack your livestock, you had every right to shoot to kill. Those wild dogs Hisname would have been history in a matter of moments especially if I was a 100% sure they were wild dogs roaming around killing. Now if they were a neighbors I would be more tactful, be courteous and give a heads up that your dogs were harassing some of my pets or that they were on my property.Take pictures even (like you have). That dont work, then pop them off. Same with any wild animal.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

If a dog comes onto your property, growls in a threatening manner, or is fighting/killing your pet(s) or livestock(chickens, goats, etc), Florida Law allows the homeowner (or threatened person by vicious dog), to kill it. If you use a firearm, this is legal, and it does not matter if it is in a neighborhood. 
Now, as far as a Bear in your yard killing your goats, DO YOU have the Right to kill it? I would think so. 

I also agree that we FLORIDA should have a Bear season using a tag system.

If a person trespasses onto your property and threatens great bodily harm by either aggravated battery or aggravated assault, which places a well founded fear in that persons (victim) mind, that great bodily harm or death is imminent, that person is justified in the use of deadly force... 

But of course this has always been legal, so what the castle law really does, is it just reaffirms this and adds the law to protect a person from being sued by the thugs next of kin. 
Just my .02 cents worth.


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> But of course this has always been legal, so what the castle law really does, is it just reaffirms this and adds the law to protect a person from being sued by the thugs next of kin.
> Just my .02 cents worth.


it also says if someone intrudes into your home, you don't have to worry about whether they may or may not actually intend to harm you and yours. you can legally assume they are going to and you will not be punished for taking the steps you felt were necessary to protect your family. and then of course the "no retreat" part of it is important - you don't have to attempt to flee anymore. you can stand your ground and fight. i remember thinking no way the liberals and politicians will let this pass - but i pleasantly surprised. all 3 of these are extremely important components of this law.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

DoneDeal2 said:


> I bet there is more to this story!



+1.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> If a dog comes onto your property, growls in a threatening manner, or is fighting/killing your pet(s) or livestock(chickens, goats, etc), Florida Law allows the homeowner (or threatened person by vicious dog), to kill it. If you use a firearm, this is legal, and it does not matter if it is in a neighborhood.
> Now, as far as a Bear in your yard killing your goats, DO YOU have the Right to kill it? I would think so.
> 
> I also agree that we FLORIDA should have a Bear season using a tag system.
> ...


Do you have that FL law statute number?


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

I think this is it:
http://archive.flsenate.gov/cgi-bin...e/bills/billtext/html/&Tab=session&Submenu=1&


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

*Kathy Barco*
Monday, August 29, 2011
Media contact: Kathy Barco

This is my first column as Chairman of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC). I am honored and, frankly, humbled by the support of my fellow commissioners, our stakeholders and the Floridians this Commission works with every day. I thought it appropriate to start my conversation with you by sharing our success story of the FWC's threatened species rule for Florida black bears.
In the early 1970s, Florida black bears dropped to their lowest numbers on record; estimates were as few as 300 bears statewide. Our predecessor agency, the Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission, stepped in and selected the Florida black bear as one of the first listed threatened species in 1974, adding more protection to bears and their habitat.
But adding bears to a list alone does not recover a species. The FWC and its partners identify important wildlife habitats and work with private landowners to keep those lands in conservation, whether through easements and agreements through our Landowner Assistance Program, or purchases through programs like Florida Forever. Statewide educational efforts teach thousands of people each year about bears and how to avoid conflicts. Formal education programs like The Florida Black Bear Curriculum Guide bring bear issues directly into the schools, and informal efforts occur through FWC staff time spent engaging the public at festivals and community events. The FWC passed a rule that made feeding bears illegal, allowing us to focus on the core cause of human-bear conflicts. 


"Looks like he'd should be charged for feeding the bears the goats accordin to the chairman of the FWC"


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

I 'm well aware of that...I guess I missed this part

" Florida Law allows the homeowner (or threatened person by vicious dog), to kill it. If you use a firearm, this is legal, and it does not matter if it is in a neighborhood. "


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Frank, Ive been a law enforcement officer in Fl for many years.


 



DoneDeal2 said:


> I 'm well aware of that...I guess I missed this part
> 
> " Florida Law allows the homeowner (or threatened person by vicious dog), to kill it. If you use a firearm, this is legal, and it does not matter if it is in a neighborhood. "


 
Are you Serious?? "Do you have that FL law statute number?"


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## drifterfisher (Oct 9, 2009)

DoneDeal2 said:


> I bet there is more to this story!


What else do you want to know? If your a LEO then you dont get it, if your not then I hope you do.Just because you have a piece of tin on your chest and a gun on your hip doesnt make you a better person,or an honest one either. 99% of all I've met think they are a god of some sort.To them the civilian is always wrong,they are always right,and if you dont like it we will lock you up.
I've never had one help me in anyway,or anyone that I know.My house has been broken into twice,no help,did a report and left.My brothers truck was stolen 3 months ago,nothing done so far,but let me do 5 over on the highway and get rote up for sure,gotta get the money.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> Are you Serious?? "Do you have that FL law statute number?"


Thats right I'm serious..you stated that this was Fl law. Never heard of it...


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

drifterfisher said:


> What else do you want to know? If your a LEO then you dont get it, if your not then I hope you do.Just because you have a piece of tin on your chest and a gun on your hip doesnt make you a better person,or an honest one either. 99% of all I've met think they are a god of some sort.To them the civilian is always wrong,they are always right,and if you dont like it we will lock you up.
> I've never had one help me in anyway,or anyone that I know.My house has been broken into twice,no help,did a report and left.My brothers truck was stolen 3 months ago,nothing done so far,but let me do 5 over on the highway and get rote up for sure,gotta get the money.


Never claimed to be better than anyone but you come on here bashing LEO's because your particular situation wasnt handled the way you think it should be. There are many things I wish I could do as an LEO that the law doesnt allow me to do, so in turn ,LEO's can only do so much. Usually one party at a police call is not going to be so happy. In fact, most people call the police because they cant act rational and handle their own problems or they simply have been just a victim of a crime.What exactly did you want done on the two burglaries and the car theft? Please elaborate. I guarantee you the cases got worked as much as they could or there was nothing else to go on. LEO's dont have magic dust to solve every crime. Your just one of those bitter people that cant be made happy, and you will never change your mind. With the attitude you have, I can see why LEO's dont see eye to eye with you...By the way the clerks office gets the money not the cops. Cant think of one case where a ticket was paid to the LEO or to the LEO agency.I just wish you didnt have that bad taste , because you never know , you or a loved one may need a police officer one day in an emergency. If you think thats not the case , then by all means next time you need the cops call a CRACKHEAD to help you, and see how much they really do for you. ...Cheers.


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## drifterfisher (Oct 9, 2009)

I do not call on the cops period.There will never be a day when I do again.
Some guy getting his stuff stolen is just paper work to you,let one of yours get stolen from and its all hands on deck,shoot the bad guy.
Ya know what,mabye I need to become a cop.then I can shoot people and get away with it,just cant steal money look what happened to Okaloosa county's finest....There is all the proof anyone needs that cops think their above the law,and that they make the law. Kinda bit them in the ass didnt it?


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## mrwigglezdj (May 11, 2008)

...


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

drifterfisher said:


> I do not call on the cops period.There will never be a day when I do again.
> Some guy getting his stuff stolen is just paper work to you,let one of yours get stolen from and its all hands on deck,shoot the bad guy.
> Ya know what,mabye I need to become a cop.then I can shoot people and get away with it,just cant steal money look what happened to Okaloosa county's finest....There is all the proof anyone needs that cops think their above the law,and that they make the law. Kinda bit them in the ass didnt it?


Pretty Ignorant to form an opinion about hundred's of thousands of people based on your encounters with a few...


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Please Remember --->*

DoneDeal2, You might want to remember also,one day you might need a civilian to help you and the only person that will be standing there is a tree hugger/bunny hugger,anti gun/anti concealed carry pinkie, that most probably voted for Morgan.

I also have had several bad dealings with the local ECSO. Both in the civilian sector and while they were in uniform. NO....that does not make them all bad cops,I freely admit that. But I also will admit that I will go out of my way not to deal with them,look at them,or even talk to them. WHY ?? Cuz that is my RIGHT !!

You are absolutely right in that one day they could(maybe?) do me a favor,you should also remember that one day I could also do them(maybe?)a favor. ---- SAWMAN


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

SAWMAN said:


> DoneDeal2, You might want to remember also,one day you might need a civilian to help you and the only person that will be standing there is a tree hugger/bunny hugger,anti gun/anti concealed carry pinkie, that most probably voted for Morgan.
> 
> I also have had several bad dealings with the local ECSO. Both in the civilian sector and while they were in uniform. NO....that does not make them all bad cops,I freely admit that. But I also will admit that I will go out of my way not to deal with them,look at them,or even talk to them. WHY ?? Cuz that is my RIGHT !!
> 
> You are absolutely right in that one day they could(maybe?) do me a favor,you should also remember that one day I could also do them(maybe?)a favor. ---- SAWMAN


The difference in what I said and what you guys said is that ...I didnt bad mouth the general public or lump them into one category. Do you stop talking to everyone because somebody makes you mad? No. I have had several citizens help me out and graciously thank them for doing so. If it wasnt for the citizens making my job easier...I probably wouldnt do it. On a daily basis , law enforcement depends on them, and we DO appreciate it. Sorry but the "I'm taking my ball and going home attitude" is just silly to me. But some people you just cant help them see the light. Sorry we derailed the bear thread..maybe we need our own bash law enforcement thread to continue this...Sorry but its my job and profession and I do enjoy helping people and getting bad people off the streets. I cant help but defend it. If you need me just shout Id gladly help you out.


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## archer-1 (Feb 4, 2009)

I like to believe that there are LEO's out there that remember they are just human also, but they seem to be few and far between 
Unfortunately the negative ones out number the positive ones 10/1 from my experience....
DoneDeal2 if you treat the average citizen that places a call with the respect they deserve and not like they are a pain in your a$$ for bothering you with their problem, then your in the minority and my hats off to you!


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

archer-1 said:


> I like to believe that there are LEO's out there that remember they are just human also, but they seem to be few and far between
> Unfortunately the negative ones out number the positive ones 10/1 from my experience....
> DoneDeal2 if you treat the average citizen that places a call with the respect they deserve and not like they are a pain in your a$$ for bothering you with their problem, then your in the minority and my hats off to you!


I get paid to put in 10 hours a day. Doesnt bother me , no matter how its spent. Some days are slow, some aren't. I earn my check and do my job.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

DoneDeal2 said:


> Thats right I'm serious..you stated that this was Fl law. Never heard of it...





DoneDeal2 said:


> I get paid to put in 10 hours a day. Doesnt bother me , no matter how its spent. Some days are slow, some aren't. I earn my check and do my job.


 
Exactly what is your job title? I'd suggest you read your Fl. Handbook, or at the least, go speak to your SA for guideance. I know for a fact as to what I said about killing a vicious animal is legal.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> Exactly what is your job title? I'd suggest you read your Fl. Handbook, or at the least, go speak to your SA for guideance. I know for a fact as to what I said about killing a vicious animal is legal.


 
What is your job title? Mine would be Investigator.Not to mention 8 year former police K9 handler. I know dogs and have dealt with my share at work and at home. Many attacks on people, animals, and my own K9. Please post the statute and quit pushing it off on me. Maybe you interpret it wrong. You said you know for a fact...please post how you know. You stated "If a dog comes onto your property, growls in a threatening manner, or is fighting/killing your pet(s) or livestock(chickens, goats, etc), Florida Law allows the homeowner (or threatened person by vicious dog), to kill it. If you use a firearm, this is legal, and it does not matter if it is in a neighborhood"....im asking you nicely to post the law.. I can tell you most cops wont arrest you for defending yourself against a vicious dog or for saving a pet or livestock, but you must be very careful discharging a firearm in a neighborhood. It all depends on the circumstances. If you shoot a vicious dog and the round goes the wrong way, it wont matter you will probably go to jail. Florida doesnt specifically tell you that you can do so. By the way its not a handbook its called a statute book, and the SA regularly only deal with the law after your formally charged. The cops are the deciding factor and have to make the real decision based on whats at the scene. Ive never had to ask a SA for advice, as a matter of fact I normally have to guide them to ask the right questions. Been doing this long enough my reputation stands good with the court system here.thank you...


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

OMG, now I have to do your job for you? Isn't it your "job" to know your job? You should really check with your SA/SAA and ask them. But as far as How I know for a Fact, really isn't any of your Business, now is it. Now I said that politely. But I will look up the statute for you. I'll post it for you Monday, as I do not work on my weekends.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

*Nice*

Thats what I thought!


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I searched the Florida statutes and didn't find anything regarding shooting dogs or bears. So....:whistling:


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Well, I'll say IF I can't find it in the FSS, it is a County Ordinance. Either way, you will not be arrested for it, IF you are defending yourself. 
But I guess you all think if you have a dog run up to you and start ripping you apart, you're just Sh*t outta luck. Because if you shoot the dog, you'll be arrested or the same if a neighbors dog comes into your yard and starts attacking your dog, you can't use deadly force. WOW are ya'll for real?


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I would defend myself/my dogs/another person, but I wouldn't post it on here just in case. I'm not in Florida though.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Exactly. But some feel you can kill someone for breaking into their house, but if a dog is killing your livestock or attacking them, you can't kill the dog. What, a dog life is now somehow more important than a humans? 
Wow, this is so surreal....


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> Exactly. But some feel you can kill someone for breaking into their house, but if a dog is killing your livestock or attacking them, you can't kill the dog. What, a dog life is now somehow more important than a humans?
> Wow, this is so surreal....


I'm not sure anyone feels that way. I think you're probably right but I wouldn't mind having the statute so I can read it myself. At the end of the day though, even if you're mistaken or the ordinance doesnt apply where i live, I'll take a discharging a firearm charge over having to burry my pup after it was attacked by another dog. Obviously same goes for my wife or daughter.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

*767.03 **Good defense for killing dog*.—In any action for damages or of a criminal prosecution against any person for killing or injuring a dog, satisfactory proof that said dog had been or was killing any animal included in the definitions of “domestic animal” and “livestock” as provided by s. 585.01 shall constitute a good defense to either of such actions.History.—s. 1, ch. 4978, 1901; GS 3144; RGS 4959; CGL 7046; s. 1, ch. 79-315; s. 2, ch. 94-339.

Beating it or stabbing it to death in a neighborhood is evidently okay.
But the action of shooting a firearm in the neighborhood might get you a citation.


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> *767.03 **Good defense for killing dog*.—In any action for damages or of a criminal prosecution against any person for killing or injuring a dog, satisfactory proof that said dog had been or was killing any animal included in the definitions of “domestic animal” and “livestock” as provided by s. 585.01 shall constitute a good defense to either of such actions.History.—s. 1, ch. 4978, 1901; GS 3144; RGS 4959; CGL 7046; s. 1, ch. 79-315; s. 2, ch. 94-339.
> 
> Beating it or stabbing it to death in a neighborhood is evidently okay.
> But the action of shooting a firearm in the neighborhood might get you a citation.


I wouldnt necessarily say you couldnt shoot a a vicious dog, but you have to be careful.Its really not addressed by statute. My whole point is I would probably do like the next guy , but you better be 100% in the right before you go discharging a firearm in a regular neighborhood. The above statute falls under the TORT statutes which basically says if you are sued or happen to be arrested killing a dog, than your attorney does a have an argueable defense to use in your favor in court. Its more less an administrative statute, not an enforceable crime statute or a statute authorizing the killing of any animal. It may help you beat the civil suit or a conviction.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Okay, it's Monday....... Here's what covers a person from arrest for shooting a dog which is attacking him/another, and yes, it includes Public Roadways.

Look up FSS. 776.012 (a), and if this is too obvious, look up 790.15 para (1), sub para (3). 

Now, do you want the last word?


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*In Maine*

In my small town in Maine,for a time,I was the Animal Control Officer. During my time at the state school we were taught the person has a right to protect himself from a "sudden,unprovoked attack"from a domestic dog. 

These are the "majic" words that the investagateing officer wanted to hear it seems. Anyway...that was there...this is Florida. Could be different.

Also in Maine,a person had the ABSOLUTE right to protect "livestock" from any domestic dog. --- SAWMAN


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> Okay, it's Monday....... Here's what covers a person from arrest for shooting a dog which is attacking him/another, and yes, it includes Public Roadways.
> 
> Look up FSS. 776.012 (a), and if this is too obvious, look up 790.15 para (1), sub para (3).
> 
> Now, do you want the last word?


You know your ignorance of the law looks worse with every post. 776 doesnt apply to shooting a dog...it applies to unlawful force by a person...790 is the closest you have come , but doesnt give you free range to discharge a gun in public...go ahead and read it
however you like to...good luck


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## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

Im done you guys win.


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