# Plan to take 1/2 our TAC!



## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Attention All Recreational Fishermen and Businessesthat rely on Recreational Fishing to survive.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Belowis a proposal that will be presented to the FFWCC in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Key West</st1:City></st1lace> December 3rd & 4th 2008 by a group of Charter Boat Owners. <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The supporters of the "SOS Plan" (<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">S[/B]ave <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">O[/B]ur <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">S[/B]elves) want to take 50% of the Recreational Total Allowable Catch and create a "For-Hire" sector similar to the Commercial Sector. <P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I was told by a very reliable source that Roy Crabtree likes this idea and said as much at a meeting in Mobile a few weeks ago during an "Off-the-Record"meeting with several of the attendees.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">What would this mean to Private Recreational Fishermen? It would mean that we would go from having 49% of the TAC (*<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">T*otal *<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">A*llowable *<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">C*atch) to having 24.5% of the TAC.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Basically, if adopted, 2 very small special interest groups (Commercial & For-Hire) would be GIVEN 75.5 percent of all the fish that are allowed to be caught in the <st1lace w:st="on">Gulf of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Mexico</st1lace></st1:country-region></st1lace>! <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">This would be devastating to not only the recreational fisherman but also to Boat Dealers, Boat Mechanics, Marina?s, Fishing & Tackle stores, Scuba shops that sell spearfishing gear, boat insurance sales, all the mechanics that service the millions of private boats and the list could go on and on! <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">Florida</st1:State></st1lace>?s economy enjoys approximately $10,000 per minute from Recreational Saltwater Fishing. We must be proactive and save our rights to fish and our economy!<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o>*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">BTW, not all Charter Boat Owners support this plan! *<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">However, support is growing because many Charter Owners are hurtingand desperatedue to the restrictions placed on the Fishery by NMFS limiting the Federal Red Snapper Season.<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I have always supported the Charter Industry because they are professional transportation for Recreational Fishermen, however; *<U>I don't support this scheme to hijack 50% of the Recreational Total Allowable Catch. <o></o></U>*<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white" align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o>*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 20pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The best plans are always WIN-WIN plans.*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 20pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 20pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">This plan is a big looser for Recreational Fishermen and the Businesses that rely on them!*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white" align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o>*<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If you would like to participate in writing a Win-Win plan, Please contact me with your ideas. [email protected] <o></o>*<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>*<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o>*<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>*<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Spread the word, the future of Recreational Fishing could be at stake!*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes">Candy Hansard<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes">*************************************************<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes"><P class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes">*<U>SOS Plan (Save-Our-Selves)</U>*<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">[/B]<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Exploring a New Direction to Improve For-Hire Red Snapper Fishing <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><U>What?s happening</U>? ? [/B]The 2008 red snapper season was the shortest on record. This was due to the NMFS?s commitment to making sure that all sectors stay within their allotted allocation<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">. Additionally, new government accountability measures will require that any future overages are compensated for, which could result in even shorter seasons in the future. The continued loss of fishing time and subsequent loss of business revenues highlights the desperate situation facing our industry. <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">It has become clear that we must reevaluate the position of the for-hire recreational fisheries sector. If negative trends continue, we stand to lose all the investment and years of labor we have collectively put into making our profession an industry. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Something has to change.[/B] <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">Until this year, many of us thought that we could get by with shortened seasons and fewer fish. Some of our industry leaders have even suggested the solution is the status quo and have promoted the continuity of the relationship we have with the private recreational fishers. <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">This is no solution at all and the reason is simple: <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">We are professional fishers who operate for-profit businesses. [/B]Both the National Research Council and the National Marine Fisheries Service agree on this point.<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/B]Sure,<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/B]we may all fall under the recreational sector allocation umbrella for fisheries management purposes, but we approach fishing from an entirely different perspective. <SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Our opinion is simply that we can no longer afford to be attached to a recreational sector of unknown quantities, effort, landings and unregulated growth.<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"> <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">The time to become involved is <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">now - [/I][/B]Several for-hire businessmen are exploring how to better serve our customers, count and conserve fish, and build equity in our businesses assets. We realize the consequences of inaction: longer fishery rebuilding, fewer fishing days, and lost economic potential for our businesses. Any profitable business must have stability so owners can plan for the future. It is imperative that we all take a leadership role in developing common-sense management options to obtain stability, sustainability and give us hope for a better future. The NMFS and the Gulf Council have both indicated that they are ready to roll up their sleeves and work for better management. We believe they will be receptive to an industry led effort to make positive change. <SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><U>Getting started - </U>[/B]To begin, we want to develop a set of goals to guide our discussions and the development of this proposal such as: <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Provide a reliable platform for the public to access and enjoy sport fishing.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Improve service to customers with year-around access and the ability to custom-tailor trips.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Build stability and equity in for-hire businesses.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Achieve high accountability by counting all fish caught.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Rebuild and maintain a viable for-hire fishery.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Gain fair and equitable management.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> Increase industry control over management.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><U><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">A<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">chieving our Goals - [/B]</U><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">Changes in recreational management will require compromise by several parties, including our industry, and it will neither be easy nor pain- free, but it is an opportunity to put our industry back on track to recover what we have lost, rebuild our investment, and eventually recover equity in our fishery. There are a lot of steps to a new management program, including a proposal, Gulf Council plans, and implementation by NMFS. This is a daunting task, but the alternative ? the status quo - equates to nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">Here is a summary of our proposal:<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">1. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Secure our allocation. [/B]We would begin by obtaining a ?control date? from the NMFS which would freeze the current percentages of recreational sector allocation between the private recreational anglers and the For-Hire Sector based upon landings history. We don?t want anything more than our fair share: only that what we have historically caught.<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/B]Then we would obtain an agreement from NMFS that the percentages will remain fixed for a minimum of two years to provide enough time to get the proper monitoring tools in place by NMFS and the industry.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">2. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Put monitoring tools in place.[/B] The next step is to decide what monitoring tools we want. For starters, we think just two: VMS and electronic logbooks. These tools will provide us the opportunity of real-time catch reporting and will determine, at a high level of accuracy, who is fishing and what they are catching.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">3. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Professionalize the industry: [/B]Monitoring tools such as VMS and electronic log books will give scientists and managers better data for management decisions and will give the industry accountability, so that when fish stocks rebound, the information can be trusted and catch levels can be increased. Increasing the fishermen?s role in data collection and management of the fishery will instill a positive stake in data collection and foster a proactive attitude and participation to further enhance fisheries management.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">*<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">4. Create a Red Snapper Endorsement: *<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">As our new sector begins to collect accurate, real-time data through the implementation of VMS and electronic logbooks, a clear picture of who is dependent on red snapper for their livelihoods will immerge. This information can then be used to determine eligibility for any future management plan for the red snapper fishery. Fishermen who have implemented VMS and electronic logbooks and have snapper landings can then be given an endorsement for red snapper and will be eligible to participate in the fishery. F<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">airness is of utmost importance, whether you have been in business for6 months or 50 years, have a six-pack boat or a party boat<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">all<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"> [/B]participants start on the same date with the same access dictated by the NMFS current opening and closings that we are fishing under now.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">5. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Support law enforcement. [/B]Throughout this process, we will support law enforcement, which will authenticate our honesty in record keeping. Through VMS, enforcement officers can easily contact vessels and verify catch, and catch composition, with random, unannounced inspections. We support strict penalties including disqualification for anyone caught cheating or ?cooking the books.? We also encourage the apprehension and prosecution of individuals illegally conducting a For-Hire business. <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'">Hopefully, you?ll agree with us that failure to do nothing is certain failure. We welcome your participation in changing the current direction of our industry into a productive business where our sons and daughters have a future in the fishery.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o>


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## Voodoo Lounge (Sep 28, 2007)

Lets see a list of those who support this idea!!! CAPT. and boat name would be nice


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Working on a list for you Tony B, for some reason, nobody wants to put their name behind this genius plan.

Wonder why?


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Did anyone notice the recommendation includes looking at landing history for charter and recreational? Charter is not interested in taking anything from recreational. They simply want to manage their historical share and not be penalized if recreational overfishes. Full time charter captains make their living from fishing and must havea more predictable season. As I'vestated before:recreational, you have complained you have not caught your historical share. This may be an opportunity for you to manage your fishery. Neither commercialnor charterwill be able tocatch your fish! If youdon't catch as many fish because of reduced trips (weather/fuel costs) your season would be extended.JoeZ, how about explaining specifically why you are against this proposal.


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## Voodoo Lounge (Sep 28, 2007)

opcorn Here we go!!


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

*<U>Capt Jarvis asked me to share his response so here it is:</U>*<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ms Hansard, I appreciate you sharing our plan with a lot of the people that we do not have normal contact with. Unfortunately you may have some confusion concerning some of the most important aspects of this plan to help our industry survive in this newMSA <SPAN class=GramE>reauthorization environment we must now operate in.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> First of all we,the charter for hire sector whois now being managed as a separate sector are asking only for what we have historically caught over the last ten years since we became a limited entry group due to the federal permit process. According to MRFSS data since 1996 -2006 we have caught 61% of the recreational TAC <SPAN class=GramE>( total allowable catch) and the private rec sector has caught 39%. This catch data is what the NMFS has used in all its management decisions concerning the red snapper fishery including start and stop days and length of seasons .Also it has been used to determine daily<SPAN class=GramE> fish and size limits. We are asking only for what we have been accredited as having caught<SPAN class=GramE> *<SPAN style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No**<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> more, no less*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">.We do not want one single pound from what the private recreational sector has caught according to the MRFSS data the last ten years.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We are not trying to steal a single pound of private recreationally caught fish. The catch limit for the private rec angler will stay at the same level that it has the last ten years percentage wise. Under this reduced TAC we fish under now it will affect the days to fish but the percentages remain the same.Our plan is only applying the historical catch history to our industry so we can manage the red snapper fishery in a manner that will help us to have a long term viable fishery. Our plan will not change one single aspect of what the private rec sector has doneover the <SPAN class=GramE>last ten years . As a result it will not affect anyone who has <SPAN class=GramE>a interest in sport fishing along the gulf coast in the private rec sector.The number one problem in most GOM fisheries including red snapper is the lack of accurate science and catch accountability.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As you can see by the tenets of this plan, that all our industry is asking to do is provide the managers of this resource the tools it need to stop over fishing and give them the science they need to make better decisions about how to manage red snapper. This plan will give them the ability to make better stock assessments and hopefully this will be the fastest way toset us back to higher TAC limits which not only benefit us but also the entire red snapper user groups including the private recreational sector.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your historical catch history is safe under our plan. We do not want to infringe on what you deserve. However if you were to have a concern it should be that as of now your sector has no plan to address the up coming ACL's that start in 2009 and with over fishing and how that may affect your days to fish for red snapper. Under this new directive any amount of over fishing will be applied to the next year. In 2006 the MRFSS data showed a 566,620 lb overage that <SPAN class=GramE>would be taken off the following year if the ACL was in place. We are presently fishing under a 1.49 million lb <SPAN class=GramE>Tac, take 566,620 lbs from that and we would be fishing for only 823,380 the next years under ACL's.. In fact high overages have been recorded according to this data the last 4 or 5 years so most likely 2009-2010 we are going to lose a large amount though these overages and could face a total shut down of this fishery sooner rather than later.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Our plan with total catch accountability and real time data through VMS<SPAN class=GramE>,and log books will protect us from these overages. We still wont get any more fish under the present TAC or with the reduced days of fishing but we will start to give the NMFS real science in a timely manner and <SPAN class=GramE>we won't be penalized by ACL's.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=GramE><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">On the math of the small user groups controlling 75% of the red snapper fishery.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> It would be better stated that 75% of the red snapper fishery would be totally accounted for with true catch <SPAN class=GramE>history , true fishing effort and true science to help scientist to come up with better stock assessments and TAC limits. We who fish daily now know that red snapper fishing in the gulf is the best it has been in over 30 years but the poor science of the MRFSS system won't reflect that for months if not years. With real time data provided by our plan and the current commercial IFQ program for the first time in recent history we have a chance to actually manage a fishery with reality instead of pie in the sky speculation.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Last but not least please remember that although small in <SPAN class=GramE>relative numbers the Charter For Hire industry per individual vessel bringsmillion of dollars to their local economy. We pay high dock rent at <SPAN class=GramE>marinas , burn ten of thousand of gallons of fuel each season,I spend in excess of $15,000 dollars a year in tackle,we pay mechanics , boat insurance by the thousands and thereare over 1300 of us, The average out of state charter customer stays 2.5 days in our city and villages and spends thousand of dollars perone day charter on accommodations, restaurant, bars, shopping , Charter fees and tips. Not only that do notforget the fact that we are the only true public access for the average American citizen or foreign visitor to experience sport fishing in America. Our industry provide over 2 million anglers who have not the resources to purchase a boat and the expense that prevents most American citizens the ability to experiencefishing in the Gulf. The MRFSS dataof our historical catch history would suggest that we provide far more access to catchred snapper to theaverage salt water angler than a private recreational fisherman does.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So Ms Hansard I would like to hope you can see that we are not high jacking <SPAN class=GramE>nothing from you or anyone else. <SPAN class=GramE>we are not going to affect the recreational fisherman who wants to continue in the status quo fishing system in place now. In fact I suggest that he comes up with <SPAN class=GramE>a accountability plan to get out of it ASAP. <SPAN class=GramE>butif, in fact, our plan is implemented the future looks bright.That sooner ratherthan later that we can get higher TAC limits in a couple of years from now and when that happens, especially after the Recreational fisherman has been getting to fish for only a few days, thatour efforts will be appreciated when with a higher TAC his fishing days will be increased as well.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You have taken the time to alert those who you know based on your understanding of our plan. I have taken the time to try and clear up some of your concerns and I hope I have done that in a forth rite manner. I will answer any and all questions that you may have and will look forward to a response from you with any concerns you have about our efforts or any ideas that you may have that would help youto maybe change your position. I would however in the interest of fairness ask that you send my response to you to all that you contacted so maybe they can join in this <SPAN class=GramE>debate . I think it would be helpful to all who fish for red snapper. Thank you for your time<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Capt. Gary Jarvis<o></o><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> F/V Back Down 2<o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes">*<U>This was my response to Capt Jarvis:</U>*<P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes">Capt. Jarvis,<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes">Thank you for your thoughtful response.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes">I?m sure if I was going to present a plan to the FFWCC that would descriminate against the Charter Operators that you would pass it around to alert the troops. I am not your enemy, I have been fighting the same battle for better data and accountability in our fishery management. I have also worked very hard to educate private recreational fishermen that the Charter Guys are our alies. This plan threatens to shatter that alliance.<P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes">You said you would answer questions so here are some that are on my mind right now:<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">1.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">How exactly is this plan going to help the small operator grow his business and compete with the fleet operators once the ?Historical Data? is established?<o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">2.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">Why aren?t you going after the Commercial TAC if you are wanting to be viewed as a Commercial Sector?<o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">3.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">Have you requested the MRFSS Data from the NMFS? (I?m not talking about their compilation report, I?m talking about the RAW data.)<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-no-proof: yes">I would like to come up with a plan that would benefit all Recreational Fishermen including Charter Operators. If you would like to be part of that dialog, you are very welcome to share ideas that would help to accomplish that goal. You may not get 100% unity with the Charter industry with this plan but I can pretty much guarantee that the Private Recreational Fishermen will be united 100% against it.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoAutoSig><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes">Candy Hansard<o></o>


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

My biggest problem with this plan is this:

How many recreational fishers have EVER been asked "How many red snapper did you catch today (or this week, this month, this year)". The only time I've ever been asked was when the FWC was doing random checks for licenses and size/bag limits, which I'm fairly certain they don't record or report. Even if they did, they're still only talking to a relative few anglers.

How in the HELL can anyone say that we've caught X percentage of the TAC when there is absolutely NO data on the private boat recreational catch?

It would seem to me, before implementing any large changes in TAC allocation, there should be Reliable data collected from ALL sectors. They should find a way to make this happen before making rules based on numbers they are just pulling from their asses!


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <DIV id=post_message_4087>*Below are two questions every Recreational Fisherman should be asking:*

*1.* Why should there even be sectors? Doesn't the Resource belong to ALL of us? If the resource belongs to ALL of us, then we are all shareholders. We are all shareholders, so why should a few people get the biggest share while we get thrown scraps without fair compensation?

*2.* If the Charter Industry unites to become a Commercial Sector, they should split up the Commercial TAC. Ooops, that won't work because the "Historical Catch" quota scheme has locked everyone that isn't already in, OUT. It has also locked the small commercial operators into their "small" status. The "Historical Catch" scheme, if embraced by the Recreational Charters, would do EXACTLY the same thing in the Charter Industry. The big Charter boys guarantee they will stay the big boys and they will NEVER have to worry about competition from you, the small Charter Businesses, because the Quota system will guarantee you will never be able to grow your business. 

Charters are either Recreational or they are Commercial. Personally, I believe the Charter Industry will be better off in the Recreational sector but I'm not a Charter Owner so I can't speak for them. 

I have always supported the Recreational Charter Industry and even gone to bat to help save them. I thought we were all in this together and we should all stick together. I'm sure there are many Charter Owners that agree with that sentiment. The SOS plan does NOT benefit the entire Charter industry equitably and should be rejected by the majority of Charter Owners because they will loose in the long run. 

Any Charter Owner that is on the fence with this issue should remember the 2004 election and Pregnant Pigs. If voters would protect pregnant pigs, what makes you think they wouldn't protect the poor little mistreated private recreational fisherman? Let's see...we have 2.7 million licensed recreational fishermen in Florida and that doesn't include everyone over 65 that isn't required to buy a license...do you think we might have a ground swelling of support? I think even non-fishermen would see the injustice in the system and come to our rescue. 

*<DIV align=center>I will say it again, lets come up with a win-win plan for Recreational Fishermen, Private and Charter. 
I will listen to any ideas that would help accomplish that goal.</DIV>*

If you don't want to share your ideas publicly, send me a private e-mail. I'm listening to every idea that comes across my desk.
</DIV>


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

Seems like a competing plan that also promises better recreational sector data would be looked on favorably. Sounds like that is what has Crabtrees interest - the promise of more reliable/accurate data.


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## Ocean Man (Sep 27, 2007)

This is one of my problems with it "We don?t want anything more than our fair share: only that what we have historically caught." Wouldn't we all love to be able to keep what we have historically caught and not the new reduced bag limits.


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## KPL (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Ocean Man (11/19/2008)*This is one of my problems with it "We don?t want anything more than our fair share: only that what we have historically caught." Wouldn't we all love to be able to keep what we have historically caught and not the new reduced bag limits.


I could not have said it better. :usaflag


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Felixh, the 51%-49% commercial/recreational red snapperallocational is based on historical landings. The commercial sector'sactual catch is readily determined (IFQ) i.e., commercial annual quota cannot be overfished. Charter simply wants their historical catch identified witha reliable way to determine when they havemet their quota; VMS/logbook. Private recreational is going to have todevelop an acceptable, scientificmethod to account for their annual catch. If historical landingsare a viable way to assignallocation, then all stakeholders must be able to determine when they have reached their quota. At present, charter is penalized if private recreational overfishes. Since, as you pointed out, private recreational cannot accurately account for their catch, charter is directly effected; shortened season. Historical landings seems to be a reasonable way to assign allocations. If private recreational have caught X% per yearbased onan averageover thelast 10 years, why do you think you would catch or need a greater allocation in the future? When you're assigned a % of the TAC, you manage your own sector.You fish until you meet your quota.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

<DIV align=center>Attention All Recreational Fisherman</DIV>


*Below is the response I received from Capt Jarvis to my 3 Questions.**

You'll be glad to know that when we loose our rights to fish that you will <U>"still have jobs and things to do on weekends in and out of the water." I'm sure you all feel better now! </U>*

*I talked to the Co-President of the Destin Charter Boat Association, Scott Robson, yesterday and he said: "The Recreational Fisherman aren't going to do anything, they NEVER do!"

Their Plan will be presented December 3rd &4th in Key West.

Will you do anyting to save your rights to fish?

If you think for one minute that a paultry 24 1/2% or less of the Total Allowable Catch shared by over 2.7 million licensed Recreational Fisherman isn't going to affect you then you'd better think again.

This is NOT a FIRE Drill, it's a 4 Alarm FIRE.

Speak UP!

Write a heartfelt and respectful letter to the FFWCC and the NMFS, post it and I will be posting e-mail addresses soon so you can be heard! *

*It's time to rally the troops, the hour is upon us!*

*For you small Charter Operators out there. If you want to GUANANTEE that you will be a small operator forever, then this is the plan for you. If you understand how the Historical Catch Scheme works, <U>youknow I am telling you the truth!</U>*


*<U><DIV align=center>Here is his Response: Capt. Jarvis' response is in bright blue. </DIV></U>*

I appreciate your concern and without full knowledge of the tenets of our plan and how they apply to you I totally understand your alarm. I saw you had attached the SOS plan with your e-mail and that was a good sign that at least you were one of the few dissenters that had actually read it and was not going by someone else's interpretation and or bias but had seen it yourself. I hope you, by my last response can see this plan is all about taking a forward thinking dynamic plan to the NMFS that our industry needs to survive in this system that is choking the life blood right out of us. A plan that will not effect what the average private boat recreational fisherman has done in the past and other than the fact that it will speed up the chance of increased TAC's which benefits everyone and we won't be having this discussion years from now. We are now a separate sector like it or not because rule 30 B began for the first time ever in this Recreational world we fish in, that the Federal permit holding Charter for Hire owner is now being managed different than the private boat owner. That said let me go below and answer your concerns once more. 

In a message dated 11/19/2008 1:35:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:

Capt. Jarvis,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I'm sure if I was going to present a plan to the FFWCC that would discriminate against the Charter Operators that you would pass it around to alert the troops. I am not your enemy, I have been fighting the same battle for better data and accountability in our fishery management. I have also worked very hard to educate private recreational fishermen that the Charter Guys are our allies. This plan threatens to shatter that alliance. 

You said you would answer questions so here are some that are on my mind right now: 

1. How exactly is this plan going to help the small operator grow his business and compete with the fleet operators once the ?Historical Data? is established? Unlike in the commercial sector where there are decades of total recorded catch history. We the Charter for hire industry have been existing in the black hole of the recreational fishery for over 60 years.No one really knows in reality what has actually been caught in terms of real pounds of fish landed by anyone who fishes in this side of the fishery. And as I spoke of earlier in my first response all that any of have to go by is the MRFSS data on our catch totals. So under the SOS plan every charter for hire Captain who catches red snapper is going to start at the same starting point. Whether you have fished for 30 yrs or have only fished 3 months, whether you fish in a 25 ft out board or a 105 ft party boat every one starts at the same time with the same ability to establish catch history. Now remember we are now fishing in our designated TAC % shared only in our industry. After the SOS plan is implemented we can decide what will be the best formula to establish this history in the most fair manner . We most likely will fish under the present system of a 1 June start date and however many days we get to fish that first season.That first year of data will finally determine who actually fishes for red snapper out of the 1306 active permits. Some federal permit holders because of their location or fishing business decisions do not catch snapper now and some never have. All permit holders that caught a red snapper will get a red snapper endorsement . With that endorsement you now have 1 vote for 1 permit on all and any management decisions that will come up. It is only reasonable that if you do not fish for red snapper then you have no need to decide on red snapper issues . This will apply to other species at a later date and will work both ways.After the red snapper endorsements are active we can as a industry can through referendum decide how to best establish catch history for each stakeholder. 

If we fish under the present opening and closing then each business whether large or small will have to fish under that system and do the best they can to catch fish until the catch data says we have caught our TAC. We will not go over our TAC by much if at all because of the real time data. We would rather have a days at sea program so all fishermen could fish according to weather or charters desires to bottom fish etc. I favor this system for it is user friendly for all charter for hire Captains including the part timers and small boats. You could take your 60 day season and have a 180 day window to accomplish the fishery for that season.With this you would have overages that would be taken away from the following year under ACL's but to establish fair catch history we may want to do this for only 2 or 3 years and then vote to how we want to keep fishing our TAC. Either with a individual days at sea or IFQ system based on your individual catch history.. Each Charter Captain will get the % that they are catching now based on what their business and boat size dictates. A party boat is going to catch more than me but on a daily basis he has done that his whole life so I can live with that . Same with over 6 passenger vessels and 6 Pak, But it has always been the case. Also on the fairness of any referendum votes. There are approximate 855 boats out of the 1308 permit holders under 35 ft. Approximate 1164 of those federal permits are on 6 passenger vessels. The small business owners have a 3 to 1 advantage over the big boats or fleet business as you call them.in any referendum vote on any red snapper issues. I believe that is pretty good insurance that they are well protected under our plan.


2. Why aren?t you going after the Commercial TAC if you are wanting to be viewed as a Commercial Sector? We are viewed as a commercial for profit enterprise operating in the recreational for hire sector. We have operated in this sector for over 60 years. Any and all credit for being for hire enterprises and related catch history has been in and under the Recreational fishing TAC's. Fish re allocation from the commercial fishery to the recreational side has been tried through the ages and this is a fact . The managers of a fishery are not going to take fish out of a limited entry fishery that is totally accounted for and reallocate it into a fishery that has unknown amount of participants, unknown amount of effort and total lack of accountability. That is one of the main reasons a small group of fishermen have kept their industry protected after over 150 years of existence. 

3. Have you requested the MRFSS Data from the NMFS? (I'm not talking about their compilation report, I'm talking about the RAW data.) Yes I have and I possess it now. It is overwhelming to say the least but the sad thing is its lack of validity , that said it is all we have and the numbers we spoken about are the ones that the NMFS is and has used to manage this fishery and they are the ones they will use for this plan now and after it goes into effect if passed. It will continued to be used until we get a true data base a few years down the road. This is why the private recreational sector better get going on its own plan for I believe your not going to like the coming years starting this season when ACL's start.


I would like to come up with a plan that would benefit all Recreational Fishermen including Charter Operators. If you would like to be part of that dialog, you are very welcome to share ideas that would help to accomplish that goal. You may not get 100% unity with the Charter industry with this plan but I can pretty much guarantee that the Private Recreational Fishermen will be united 100% against it. That's OK because they do not have to worry about the out come if we fail, they still have jobs and things to do on weekends in and out of the water. I unfortunately do not I have no other recourse but to come up with solutions to our dilemma. Nothing to date has made any substantial progress the last 4 or 5 years in this night mare we are in now. This is the first comprehensive plan that does 3 things necessary to stop over fishing 1) It contains the mandates of the MSA. 2) It gives the managers the tools to carry out this mandate and 3) it is a reasonable conservation minded plan that satisfies all conservation's concerns. So we will take our chances , for the chance in the STATUS QUO is zip,zero for us. I have full confidence that the merits of this plan is fair to all user groups and will stand on its own merits . Only time will tell but it our only chance to survive. Thanks for your interest and the ability to listen to our side of this issue I hope this has answered some of your concerns. Capt Gary Jarvis


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

<P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Here is my draft letter.<P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Dear XXXX<P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">I am a recreational angler andI writing to express my concerns regarding the proposed ?SOS? plan to divide the current Gulf of Mexico (GOM) recreational sector Red Snapper Total Allowable Catch (TAC) between the charter boat industry and private recreational anglers. I like most recreational anglers, who regularly fish for Red Snapper, do not support the SOS plan. Recreational fishing on a charter/head boat is done by recreational anglers, not by charter/head boat owners. The SOS plan is being proposed by a few charter boat operators who believe it is their right to operate a for profit business at the expense of many GOM red snapper anglers. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">As you are fully aware commercial fisherman are already allotted 51% of the GOM Red Snapper TAC. I urge you not to implement the SOS plan which would commit an additionalpercentge of the GOM Red Snapper TAC to for profit business operators. Implementation of the SOS plan would equate to over 75% of the total GOM Red Snapper resource being controlled by commercial business owners. Additional commercial for profit business interest and lobby influence regarding the GOM red snapper resource is not in the best interest of the fishery at a time when NMFS science indicates red snapper are overfished. The SOS plan is a bold move to secure additional GOM fishery resources for commercial business profit at the expense of all other GOM recreational fisherman.<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">President George _<SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-STYLE: normal; mso-bidi-font-style: italic">W. Bush's amendment to Executive Order (EO) 12962, which was signed and issued on <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:date w:st="on" ls="trans" Year="2008" Month="9" Day="26">Sept. 26, 2008</st1:date> requires that recreational _<SPAN style="COLOR: black">anglers who have the ability to engage in recreational fishing be able to enjoy the experience. Additionally, the EO 12962 amendment mandates the fishery managers take affirmative action to provide citizens the opportunity to fish recreationally. I submit that the reduction of the recreational fisherman?s current percent share of the GOM red snapper TAC through implementation of the SOS plan violates the intent of the _<SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: normal; mso-bidi-font-style: italic">EO 12962 amendment by further limiting GOM red snapper fishing op_portunities for private citizens.<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"> Please take all action to ensure that the SOS plan is rejected in total and that the <SPAN style="COLOR: black">ability for recreational anglers to engage in recreational fishing for GOM red snapper is maintained into the future. <SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Sincerely, <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Mark W<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Larry Huntley

no need to post on this thread anymore. Everyone here understands you are a commercial fisherman and want to makemoney off of the red snapper fishery.I imagine you are salivating about now thinking what more commercial red snapper TAC could mean for your personal gain.I suspect you will get what you want in the end anyway as members of Congress/NMFS representaives always seem to respond to the free oyster dinners and open bar eventsput on by the commercial fishing lobby in the Wash D.C. environment.In the end money talks and recreational fisherman suck hind tit. 

Mark W


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

One thing I agree with Jarvis on is the poor data quality that these decisions are being based on. That being the case how in the world can you say or even estimate with a straight face what the charter's percentage of the recreational sector TAC is?

According to the NMFS website their budget for FY2008 was $796 million and included an INCREASE of $17.5 million for Fisheries Research and Management Programs. With those kind of resources we still have inaccurate data - that is mismanagement of the highest degree. There are adequate resources (and have been for years) to devise a non intrusive, reliable, and statistically accuratemeans of determining recreational sector landings. This smells like a terrible combination of inept management and politics, withNMFS favoring the commercial sector in the face of lots of evidence that the recreational sector ishasa better impacton the country and local economies.

Does it make any sense at all with the drastically shortened season andlimitsthat the recreational sector could have possibly overfishedred snaper. I think you'd have to be brain dead to not stop and question the validity of the data and methodologies used to collect it if you insist on making decisions on that type of data.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

I run inshore/nearshorecharters for a living and snapper fish regularly during the season. Iran offshore chaters for years snapper fishing every day.This plan is the biggest screw job load of crap I have ever seen. In those snapper meetings I went to seems like every charter boat captain said they thought the snapper data was incorrect. Now all of the sudden they find a number they like(61% of the recreational TAC) and we should all do things by the numbers to make sure everything is fair. Any charter captain who supports this can kiss my ass! This plan hurts all of us, divided we fall in this struggle. If this goes through I've had enough, I will support an effort to make red snapper an offical game fish, eliminating commercial fishing for them. I mean, maybe the NMFS is right about there numbers, the red snapper are in real trouble and should be protected from commercial fishing


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

> *need2fish (11/20/2008)*One thing I agree with Jarvis on is the poor data quality that these decisions are being based on. That being the case how in the world can you say or even estimate with a straight face what the charter's percentage of the recreational sector TAC is?


That's exaclty what I was getting at. They can't say, with any true degree of accuracy, that commercial has caught 51% percent of the TAC. Without accurate landing data across ALL sectors, anything they estimate is pretty useless.

How many pounds did the commercial sector land last year? Since it's regulated, it should be pretty easy to look up.

Now, how many pounds did the charter/rec sector land last year? There's no real count.

So add those two together, and you end up with some unknown value of X pounds landed. How can the known number from thecommercial sectorbe 51% of X, when No one has a realistic clue as to what X is?

I think, before any drastic reallocation of the resource is implemented, the managing authority should at the very least implement some manner of accurate data collection across All sectors of the red snapper fishery. From there, reasonably accurate data can be gathered and processed to find a solution that makes sense for the fishery, AND for the fishermen. To make massive changes to the seasons and TAC without first ensuring that accurate fishery data has been collected is wreckless and negligent.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Felix 

the problem is the charter boat SoS plan is moving now and by some accounts has NMFS favor because itallows NMFS to set a new data point to begin to account for more red snapper landings via charter boats under the SOS plan. Agreed the charter boats have no current basis for their share of recreational TAC, but if you read between the lines in CAPT Jarvis account of the SOS plan cut and pasted below.

" So under the SOS plan every charter for hire Captain who catches red snapper is going to start at the same starting point. Whether you have fished for 30 yrs or have only fished 3 months, whether you fish in a 25 ft out board or a 105 ft party boat every one starts at the same time with the same ability to establish catch history. Now remember we are now fishing in our designated TAC % shared only in our industry. After the SOS plan is implemented we can decide what will be the best formula to establish this history in the most fair manner . We most likely will fish under the present system of a 1 June start date and however many days we get to fish that first season.That first year of data will finally determine who actually fishes for red snapper out of the 1306 active permits. Some federal permit holders because of their location or fishing business decisions do not catch snapper now and some never have. All permit holders that caught a red snapper will get a red snapper endorsement . With that endorsement you now have 1 vote for 1 permit on all and any management decisions that will come up. It is only reasonable that if you do not fish for red snapper then you have no need to decide on red snapper issues . This will apply to other species at a later date and will work both ways.After the red snapper endorsements are active we can as a industry can through referendum decide how to best establish catch history for each stakeholder. "


whatI get out of the part where CAPT Jarvis states:

"After the SOS plan is implemented we can decide what will be the best formula to establish this history in the most fair manner . We most likely will fish under the present system of a 1 June start date and however many days we get to fish that first season.That first year of data will finally determine who actually fishes for red snapper out of the 1306 active permits. " 

Is that CAPT Jarvis intends to fish like his life depended on it when snapper season opens every day so that the portion of the TAC under SoS alloted to his boat(s) is a goodly portion alllowing him to ensure the success of his business. Since CAPT Jarvis will be a voting member he and or his family will control an alloted portion of the red snapper TAC to the point he is able for the foreseeable future.

Mark W


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

I would like to know which Charter Operations in Pensacola/OB are supporting this. I personally will not book any trip with these charters. My personal opinion is that if the charter fleet thinks that the are tied to a dead horse let them leave but let them leave with the commercial % of the TAC. This guy can keep crying about not being able run a profitable buisness but they are not the only ones in the country that have to live with Bull shit rules that affect there profitablity. They picked that industry to make a living if they can no longer make a living then they should change Jobs. I used to work construction, when the housing market fell I could not support my family so I went to school and founda job in the software industy. I personally believe that recreationalfishermanattempt to help the charter industry any way they can. We build reefs to help increase the stock of Red Snapper, as well as chartering these vessels to go fishing when we have personal vessels that we can take. Many Charter Boat captians already believe that they own the Gulf Becasue this is their "Livelyhood" the same way that truckers think that they own the interstate. The assholes who have thought of the SOS plan have targeted the recreation sector of the fishery just because we do not have the $ and clout to fight back. I do not see them trying to go after the Commercial Fisherman because they have power with the NMFS. The Commercial sector must be loving this, asthey have hoped for years that the Recreational sector would spilt and allow them greater control of the allotments. Just my .02


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## Captjack (Nov 16, 2008)

I do not support this rule anddo not plan toabide by it. 

If the laws are notjust, I say we should just do as we see fit. 

Screw the commercial interests.:banghead


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Markw4321, Iassure you that I have a very, very small snapper IFQ share, and partner I earned it. I fish it when I have company. The problem private recreational is facing is the sectorcannot account for their catch. Until then, you are at the mercy of "best guess".Personally I would likesnapper to be managed so everyone benefits and I happen to believe sound science is the answer. The only wayto improve your fisheryis "account" for what you catch. Commercial already doesand charter is getting ready to. The discussion needs to be how can private recreationalaccount for theircatch without undo hardship? Until then you will not know the future. AsI hopedeveryone learned, politics isn't the answer. It cost recreational about57 days this year. By the way, what is your full name?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Larry

my name is Mark Watson. I am curious to know how you feel you earned the exclusive rights to harvest a resource that is according to the science you put so much emphasis on is in decline. Let me guess you paid for it and meet all regulatory requirements. Don't catch the last fish Larry!

Mark W


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

*Mark W,*

*Your thoughtful and respectful letter is exactly what we need to stop this dead in it's tracks.*

*Great JOB! Please contact me.*


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

> <SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl12_lblFullMessage>Felixh, the 51%-49% commercial/recreational red snapperallocational is based on historical landings. The commercial sector'sactual catch is readily determined (IFQ) i.e., commercial annual quota cannot be overfished. Charter simply wants their historical catch identified witha reliable way to determine when they havemet their quota; VMS/logbook.


<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mr. Huntley,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I respectfully would like to share the following story since youseem to be a tad naive when it comes to the ability to over fish. This is where the problem is, not in the private recreational sector.I would challenge you to produce a private recreational fisherman story that could top this!<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">With that said, it is my belief that, if 20 men, most of whom are senior citizens can catch 909 Red Snappers in one afternoon, this should be submitted into evidence to prove that there is no shortage of Red Snapper!(Best available Science? This catch was documented by law enforcement!)<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><SPAN class=apple-style-span>*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black">Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries*<SPAN style="COLOR: black">
<SPAN class=apple-style-span title=http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/><SPAN title=http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/ style="-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">www.wlf.louisiana.gov<o></o><O style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><H3><SPAN class=apple-style-span>*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black">For Release On:*<O style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o></H3><H3><SPAN class=apple-style-span>*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black">May 01, 2008*<O style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o></H3><P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries Enforcement Division agents wrote over 100 fishing citations to 20 men on Bayou <SPAN class=SpellE>Fourchon located in Lafourche Parish on Monday, April 28.<O style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Agents stopped the charter boat, "The Captain Charlie", which was occupied by 18 paid fishermen, the captain and one deck hand. Agents boarded the vessel to conduct a creel and license check of the fish and persons aboard. Upon receiving consent from the captain of the vessel, agents allegedly found 27 ice chests holding 909 red snapper.<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Agents counted and measured every fish aboard the vessel and found that of the 909 red snapper aboard the vessel, 287 of them were under the minimum 16-inch size requirement.<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">The recreational limit for red snapper is two per fisherman, and the captain and deckhands are not allowed to possess a limit. Agents also discovered that none of the 18 fishermen were <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on">Louisiana</st1:State> residents nor did they possess valid <st1:State w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Louisiana</st1lace></st1:State> non-resident basic and saltwater fishing licenses.<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">The 18 subjects that chartered the vessel, along with the captain and deckhand of the vessel were cited for 106 alleged violations. The citations included angling without a non-resident basic and saltwater fishing license, federal charges for possessing undersized and over the limit of red snapper, and taking red snapper during a closed season. The red snapper season is closed until June 1, 2008.<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">The following fishermen were charged:<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">David Harrelson, 52, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Lockport</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">La.</st1:State></st1lace>, (Captain)<SPAN style="COLOR: black">
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Donald R. Humphrey, 45, Golden Meadow, <st1:State w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">La.</st1lace></st1:State>, (Deckhand)
<SPAN class=SpellE><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Artesza<SPAN class=apple-style-span> <SPAN class=SpellE>Portee, 35, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN class=SpellE>Autell</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Glover Jefferson Jr., 69, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Walter Bailey Jr., 61, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Robert Kemp, 72, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>James E. Williams, 65, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Callaway</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Fla.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Clyde E. <SPAN class=SpellE>Raiford, 68, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Fayetteville</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Baxter R. Maddox, 67, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Leslie H. Durham, 45, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Douglasville</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Cleveland</st1:City><SPAN class=apple-style-span> B. Kemp Jr., 56, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Conyers</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Harry Crosland, 67, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Decatur</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Willie T. Epps, 72, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">College Park</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Lawrence</st1:City><SPAN class=apple-style-span> Kendrick, 60, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Walter L. Gibson Jr., 38, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Union City</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Warren R. Brownlee, 36, Palmetto, <st1:State w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Ga.</st1lace></st1:State>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Andrew R. Smith, 70, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Decatur</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=SpellE><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Kym<SPAN class=apple-style-span> D. Haywood, 44, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hapeville</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Charlie W. Patrick 68, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Stone Mountain</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace>
<SPAN class=apple-style-span>Earnest <SPAN class=SpellE>Sessoms, 79, <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Ga.</st1:State></st1lace><o></o><O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Agents seized the 909 red snapper, which weighed 2459 pounds, and were sold for a total of $9221.25.<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o>

<SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">For more information, contact Capt. Sammy Martin at 985-447-0822 or <SPAN style="COLOR: black"><SPAN class=apple-style-span title=mailto:[email protected]><SPAN title=mailto:[email protected] style="-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">[email protected]<SPAN class=apple-style-span>.<o></o><O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O>

<O style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></O><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><SPAN class=apple-style-span title=http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/?id=95%207%20><SPAN title=http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/?id=95%207%20 style="-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">[url]http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/?id=95 7[/url]<o></o></DIV><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o>


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

> *Voodoo Lounge (11/18/2008)*Lets see a list of those who support this idea!!! CAPT. and boat name would be nice




Here we go.

Capt. Gary Jarvis -- Back Down II - Destin

[email protected]



Kelly Windes -- Sunrise -- Destin

[email protected]



Mike Eller -- Fish N Fool -- Destin

[email protected]





Jerry Anderson -- Gemini Queen and Ocean Queen -- Panama City

[email protected]



Billy Archer -- F/V Seminole Wind -- PC -- might want to google this guy to see some his history. Interesting.

[email protected]



Cannot locate the next two but do have e-mails

Tracy Redding == Orange Beach

[email protected]



Eugene Coley == OB

[email protected]





Eat'em up!


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

*WEAR TV News Story Nov. 24, 2008* <HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1>Go to this link and click on the "Top Stories Box" to watch the story WEAR T.V. did on the Charter v.s. Recreational Fishing Story tonight.

http://www.weartv.com/players/news/t...vid_5095.shtml 


*If you think you can ignore this and it will go away, YOU'RE RIGHT!* *If you ignore this issue, <U>your fishing rights ARE going to go away.</U> No Doubt about it!*</DIV>

*Business Owners that rely on Recreational Fishermen for your survival, you are a stakeholder in this game too!If approximately 2.7 million - 5 million florida recreational fishermen wind up having to share 19% of the TAC, how long do you think <U>you</U> will remain in business? If we're not on the water,we don't need to spend money on new boats, dry storage at the marinas, wet slips,insurance, fishing & tackle supplies,scuba gear etc...*
*<DIV align=center>Where is the line in the sand for you? </DIV>*
</DIV><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">How do you think the commercial guys got 51% of the Total Red Snapper catch???????? *They made noise until they got what they wanted.* <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
If you want to be part of the solution, it's simple. Write ONE letter then send it to the FWC, NMFS & the Gulf Council. Don't wait and think your opinion doesn't matter. </DIV>

Remember, these people are in a position to helpus. <U>Pleasewrite respectful letters.</U> In order for your letters to be considered, they must contain your name and address.

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
[email protected]

Ed Sapp - Recreational Representative on the Gulf Council
[email protected]

Roy Crabtree - National Marine Fisheries Service
[email protected]


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Just to keep you all informed, below is a letter that was sent to me and members of the Gulf Council,Several members of the FWC including the commissioners, the Ocean Conservancy, Folks that work for the government in Alabama and Texas, several employees of NOAA and several people with ".edu" addresses. Out of respect for their privacy, I have deleted their e-mail addresses.

Because Capt. Jarvis has asked me to share his response with everyone that I sent the announcements to, I am sharing it with all of you.

Basically, Capt. Jarvis took an announcement I wrote andinserted his comments in red.

*BTW, If you haven't written a letter requesting the FFWCC, NMFS and Gulf Council REJECT the SOS proposal, please do so quickly. The meeting isDecember 3rd & 4th. Addresses are listed below.*

*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:*<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> [email protected] 
*Sent:* Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:56 PM
*To:* [email protected]; 
*Subject:* Re: 24½% TAC for Recreational Fishermen? Say NO! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Candy it really disappoints me that you have had to resort to deception and mis quotes and mis statements to get your propaganda out . Why can you not just report the facts and let each person make their own judgment onhow this issue affects them. It surprises me that on the issue of the percentages of theTAC in the recreational sector which includes us at this time that you can not see that these percentages have been pretty much constant over the last 10 yrs. Not only that butwhether we were catching 4 fish per person from 21 Apr. to 31 Oct or 2 fish noCaptain no crew for only 60 some days the percentages between Charter for Hire and privateRec still stayed the same. Where in this data do you come up with the stealing fish Idea? Do you realize during this last ten years that the private recreational fisherman had the same access to red snapper that the charter for hire sector had yet his percentage has stayed the same, just like ours have? That is why we are only asking to bring our historical percentage of red snapper under our control to manage as a industry. We feel due to the new NMFS rules and mandates that we must have better control of our future. If it was not for the hindrances of people like you to get better accountability and science to manage these resources we would not be moving in this direction . We would operate like we always have. We would be happy to stay right were we are. But the rules have changed and whether you like it or not the NMFS is going to win on these issues . They have congressional law and mandates that give them the power to regulate red snapper till the end of time. So until you can come up with a plan that won't put us out of business we will go forward with our efforts. Capt. Gary<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In a message dated 11/20/2008 8:47:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Capt Jarvis asked me to share his response to my original alert and I think that is fair. Attached is his response. I also re-attached the proposal so if you want to forward this message, you will have all the information in this one e-mail.<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You can all rest easy now because after the Private Recreational Fisherman looses his right to fish, we will <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; BACKGROUND: yellow; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-highlight: yellow">?<SPAN style="BACKGROUND: yellow; COLOR: red; mso-no-proof: yes; mso-highlight: yellow">still have jobs and things to do on weekends in and out of the water?[/B]<SPAN style="COLOR: red; mso-no-proof: yes">.Too bad you didn't print the first part of this statementwhere you said to me<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-no-proof: yes"> You may not get 100% unity with the Charter industry with this plan but I can pretty much guarantee that the Private Recreational Fishermen will be united 100% against it. <SPAN style="COLOR: blue; mso-no-proof: yes">And I responded<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-no-proof: yes"> <SPAN style="COLOR: red; mso-no-proof: yes">That's OK because they do not have to worry about the out come if we fail, they still have jobs and things to do on weekends in and out of the water. I unfortunately do not I have no other recourse but to come up with solutions to our dilemma. Nothing to date has made any substantial progress the last 4 or 5 years in this night mare we are in now. <SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Well, if the Recreational Fisherman and the businesses that depend on their business don't speak up NOW, we had all better think of something else to do on the weekend. <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Again , the Charter for hire fisherman has no other recourse, if the season is closed he will be out of WORK! the private boat angler will spray his boat off and store it and then go to his WORK to pay his bills we can not.<SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Business owners, you'd better find another customer base because when the 2.7 million Florida Recreational Fisherman have to share a paltry 24 ½% or LESS of the TOTAL TAC, that is going to KILL Recreational Fishing! <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This so called paltry TAC percentage is, and has been all that recreational anglers have been catching under any and all seasons and catch limits the last ten years and it seems to have been OK then andstill now. Even under the reduced limits it still did not change . In fact after the SOS plan goes into effect andwith the improved science and accountability the NMFS will be more likely to increase theTAC's to the pre 2000 levels of 9 million pounds due to better stock assessments and the private recreational fisherman will catch 2 times more than he can catch now. Under status quo the entire res snapper fishery could be TOTALY SHUT DOWN for a season or 2 . How do you think your business owners will think about your efforts then MS .HANSFORD ? <SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It is unconscionable to think that approximately 1,500 people could own 75.5 percent of the Total Allowable Catch.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you own a business that services a Recreational Fishing customer base, make no mistake, this WILL permanently and negatively affect your bottom line. <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Again how will a total closing of the red snapper season under ACL's effect them. It is important that you and them must understand the complete possibility under the ACL's that this can and will happen if nothing changes.Do your small business owners that you are calling on want to entertain this fact?<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you're a recreational fisherman, this will severely limit your seasons and your rights to catch and keep fish. Think how you will feel when the Charter guys and the Commercial guys are fishing every day and the recreational season is closed. If this plan is adopted that IS what you are going to have to live with. It?s easy to stop this, just write a nice letter and send it to the addresses below. <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">First of all catching and keeping fish is a privilege and not a right. And all of us will lose it without better management of this species. We have a SOS plan that will benefit the fish and the fisherman. Even you will benefit even though you refuse to participate in the better management of this valuable resource.Our plan will give you more fish and longer fishing seasons through increased TAC's and better stock assessments in the next few years.<SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you're a small Charter Operator and you sign on to this plan, it will GUARANTEE that you will be a SMALL operator FOREVER. If you understand the ?Historical Catch? allocation scheme<U>, you know <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">I[/B] <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">am telling you the truth.[/B]</U><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ms Hansford the Charter for Hire industry is 3 to 1 small boat operators. The support and success of this plan revolves around them. No industry referendum concerning red snapper or any other fishery issue will be approved or initiated without their approval. If you were aware of this fact and the status of our industry you would have not made this statement. There are over 1100 permit holders on 6 Pak vessels compared with approximate 4oo over six including party boats. 855 of them operate on vessels 35 ft or smaller. Your GUARANTEE could not be farther from THE TRUTH.[/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please be aware that not every Charter Operator supports this plan but it is quickly gaining support because they are desperate for anything that will give them relief from the restrictions all Recreational Fishermen are under.<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am interested in drafting an alternate ?Win-Win? plan. I am listening to all ideas. If you have an idea or questions about this issue, please e-mail me at: <SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">[email protected]<o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Charter Operator SOS (Save Our Selves) plan is being presented at the meeting in [/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><?xml:namespace prefix = ns0 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><ns0:City w:endInsDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:insAuthor="Unknown"><ns0lace w:endInsDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:insAuthor="Unknown"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Key West</ns0lace></ns0:City><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> December 3<SUP>rd</SUP> & 4<SUP>th</SUP>. You must act quickly!<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please send your letters to voice your opinion on this plan to:<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><SPAN style="COLOR: black">(The most effective way to do this is to write one letter then copy and paste to each address below. <U>These people are in a position to help us, <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">please send respectful letters.)[/B]</U><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><ns0lace w:endInsDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:insAuthor="Unknown"><ns0:State w:endInsDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:insAuthor="Unknown"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Florida</ns0:State></ns0lace><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[email protected]<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ed Sapp - Recreational Representative on the Gulf Council<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[email protected]<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Roy Crabtree - National Marine Fisheries Service<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[email protected]<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If we do not stop this plan in December, our next round of letters will be to legislators. I will send you those addresses if that becomes necessary.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Thank you all for your support,<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 129.75pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoAutoSig style="MARGIN: auto 0in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Script MT Bold'; mso-no-proof: yes; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><ns0ersonName w:endInsDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2008-11-30T23:51:00Z" w:insAuthor="Unknown"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">Candy Hansard</ns0ersonName><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><o></o>


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

nothing to eat here joez 

but I know this something happens to the boats listed above I would sew for all you have "EAT'EM UP"



Somebody ask were does the "c.c.a." stand on this. Probably the same place they did in the late eighties early ninety's when they wrote a letter calling for the end of over fishing of red snapper so they could get back to historical stock numbers.



This is a quote from me in the other chat room to clarify Gulf wide travel I mean yucatan peninsula /bay of Campeche in the southern gulf.



"That there are more Red Snapper in the Gulf of Mexico than ever in history due to artificial reefs and oil rigs (quarts crystal sand does not grow Red Snapper structure is imperative to the growth of all reef fish no coral reefs here in Alabama). That for more than fifty years have been adding to an almost nonexistent Red Snapper population in the northern Gulf of Mexico. Yes "almost" nonexistent (sunk boat or some rocks 30 miles off shore is all there was if you could dead reckon your way, they didn't have g.p.s.) I am speaking as 6th+ generation fisherman and the way my history was told to me Gulf wide travel was done from Alabama to catch & salt Red Snapper for sale in Mobile markets.There was NO VIABLE STOCK IN THE NORTHERN GULF this is the DATA I was raised on."

capt coley


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Were not against you but they aren't for you ether.



notice how the only fish known of in the 1880 was the west coast of Florida. Mobile Alabama has evidence to the contrary such as yucatan peninsula/and the bay campeche.I know this the southern gulf but they landed in the US.



Here is your cca notice how willing rec are to take regulation about 6 paragraphs down.



The management of red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico has become one of the most contentious fisheries issues in recent history. As with so many aspects of resource management, agreement among stakeholders is rare.



The current problems we face in the red snapper fishery are not overnight developments. They have been brewing for almost 30 years.



But even within this quagmire of political posturing and bureaucratic red tape, there exist some certainties. First and foremost is CCA?s dedication to the future of the red snapper fishery and the participation of recreational anglers in this fishery.



?Recreational anglers are not the problem in this fishery, and never have been,? said Fred Miller, chairman of CCA?s Government Relations Committee. ?Gross bycatch of snapper by the shrimp industry got us here. The focus of management should not be on lowering the catch limits for anglers. The focus should be on properly managing all impacts on this fishery, and shrimp trawl bycatch is far and away the largest impact.?



BACKGROUND



To understand the evolving management of red snapper and CCA?s involvement, it is important to review the past as we chart a new future.



Although it is difficult to encapsulate the history of red snapper management, there are a few highlights that help map this twisting path. The earliest waypoint is represented by records from the late 1880s that show small sailing vessels used dead reckoning and handlines to catch red snapper solely off the western coast of Florida and managed to land almost 2.5 million pounds of snapper a year.



Fast forward about 100 years and by 1979, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council (Gulf Council) had determined that red snapper stocks were overfished. An estimated 87 percent drop in recreational harvest from 1980 to 1984 prompted the Gulf Council to create its ?Reef Fish Management Plan.? This program became law in 1984 and was implemented by National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) in the late 1980s.



The Gulf Council recommended an extensive rebuilding plan for red snapper. An integral part of this program was new and intensive restrictions on commercial and recreational catches coupled with a new-found realization that a majority of juvenile red snapper mortality was caused by shrimp trawls. The rebuilding plan set a time frame and a minimum red snapper biomass as targets for full recovery of the species.



?Recreational anglers have always been willing to be the first to endure regulation fot he betterment of the resource,? said Pat Murray, CCA vice president and director of conservation. ?From redfish to red snapper, anglers have always been conservationists. But the real cause of the problem, shrimp bycatch, is simply being ignored, and that is just bad management.?*there aren't many shrimpers now who do they blame it has got to be some body the numbers still don't add up.*look at your demographic it's growing faster & faster by the millions.



To reach the desired stock number, fisheries managers continued to clamp down on commercial and recreational anglers yet were unable to implement bycatch reduction devices (BRDs) to reduce commercial Gulf shrimpers? impact on juvenile red snapper numbers. More than 80 percent of every year class of Gulf red snapper is caught and killed in shrimp trawls at an average size of 4 inches. Unfortunately, a 1990 congressional mandate that CCA opposed prevented BRDs from being required in federal waters.



Reauthorization of the Magnuson Act into the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act in 1996 forever changed the arena of federal fisheries management. Within this document are the components needed for the prevention of overfishing, addressing the issue of bycatch, and rebuilding overfished fisheries. A floor amendment allowed the Gulf Council to treat shrimp-fishery bycatch like any other in the country.



A last-minute amendment added to the law changed the recreational red snapper ?allotment? to a ?quota.? The law required NMFS to close a fishery when its ?quota? is reached. Thus, this change in terminology resulted in the 1997, 1998, and 1999 recreational closures for red snapper when the total allowable catch (TAC) was reached. The federal government had set the allocation of red snapper at 51 percent commercial and 49 percent recreational in 1989, based on records of recreational and commercial harvest in the 1980s.



By law, the rebuilding process for red snapper must not take more than 29 years. For this to be an attainable goal, NMFS had to address the problem of bycatch in the shrimping industry. In the spring of 1998, the Gulf Council passed an amendment to require BRDs for shrimp trawls in federal waters. The Texas Shrimp Association sued in opposition to the bycatch reduction requirements and CCA intervened to ensure that shrimp fleet would have to do its part.


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

I'm not going to add the whole page go see the accomplishments of your CCA.you the recs.are in the list of regulations they so proudly display (fed. regs.on red fish. fishing license one state on & on ) they are not your friends.But they do have your money and some other deep pockets as-well. 

http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Capt. Coley, 

Thanks for sharing the information about the CCA and Red Snapper.

I'd never been to that page before and found it quite informative. I actually read the entire page and the Red Snapper petition to help stop over fishing of red snapper was targeted at forcing Fishery Management to reduce Shrimp Trawl by-catch. 

I can support that action. 

According to the Sedar 7 report, Shrimpers werekilling between 25 and 45 MILLION Red Snapperper year. The fact that the CCA lobbied to forceFisheries Managementto act so that there would be a Red Snapper fishery for Recreational Fishers is not a bad thing in my book.(The SEDAR7 Report is located at www.myfwc.com)

Contrary to your comments in previous posts, I do NOT have it in for you orCharter Operators, I believeCharters are professional transportation for Recreational Fishermen and women, therefore; I believe they should remain a part of the Recreational Sector. The "reading between the lines" was actually reading the SOS proposal that has YOUR name as a sponsor.

The SOS plan, as written,would cheat the small operators out of their opportunity to expand their business in the future. From the sound of your posts, you are one of thesmall operators that will suffer from this plan.You obviously do not understand how the historical catch data would limit your opportunity to grow your business in the future, all you can see is the hope ofyear-round fishing, now. Please talk to some of the small commercial operators and see if they like being locked in their historical catch IFQ. They can never compete with the big boys because they can never increase their IFQ unless they pay a kings ransom to lease or buy it from one of thebigboys. 

If your goals are purely to improve data collection, you can achieve that portion of your plan without denying fair access to the fishery to over 2.7 million recreational fishermen. Remove the separation of the sectorsportion of the proposal and you willrestore harmonywith the Private Recreational fishermen.

Capt. Coley, It's not to late to "save yourself" bywithdrawing your support for the SOS plan. 

Again, anyone that would like to participate in creating a "Win-Win" proposal, please contact me at [email protected] and share your ideas. 

*Recreational Fishermen, if you haven't done so already, PLEASE send a nice letter to the FWC, Gulf Council and Roy Crabtree to ask that they deny the portion of the SOS plan thatproposes the separation of the Recreational Sector.* <P align=center>*The SOSplan is being presented at the FFWCC meeting in Key West this Thursday!* 

*Don't assume someone else is going to speak up for you, we need EVERYONE to speak up and protest the sector separation portion of this plan. *

*[email protected]* 

*[email protected]* 

*[email protected]*


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

capt.eugene coley,

You say that shrimp by-catch is the problem, yet you don't go after them. You go after the the recreational sector because you know that it is easier to take away from the recreational fisherman than it is to take away from a well organized group of people (shrimpers). 

You are going after the weakest link and it is going to harm everyone in the process. 

The quickest and esiest way to stop over fishing of a species is to give the status of sport fish. Look what it did for redfish. If a species trully is in danger, then the only way to stop overfishingis to stop commercial and political interests in a fish species.


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

?Recreational anglers have always been willing to be the first to endure regulation fot he betterment of the resource,? said Pat Murray, CCA vice president and director of conservation.

I didn't say this your cca vice pres. said it as for shrimpers the CCA said they were the problem. I said there so few left who are they blaming now. This will probably be my last post here.So listen up*As y'all have said you have the largest body of anglers 2.7 million in Florida alone if each of you go catch 2 red snapper 5,400,000.fish multiplied by the 4 pounds the nmfs says is the average size you get 21,600,000. million pounds. I believe that the tac is only 6.something million pounds.* 

*That is over fishing and why for hire wants separation. And you need a stamp type monitor in your sector to prove you don't catch any more or any less "not a average" *



remember this tac is measured by pounds not numbers of fish this the real battle!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

I received permission to share this entire e-mail with everyone so here it is.
It is an eye opener! I turned a few sentences that I found especially interesting RED. </DIV>Beware of False Messiahs!</DIV>I am starting a new thread to share Win Win proposal ideas with all of you.Stay tuned!
Candy


From: bobzales 
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:37 AM
To: bob2
Subject: debrief meeting
Importance: High

Please read the below. Apparently, the folks with the sos plan are changing tactics and intend to try to make the private rec folks think the sosers have their best interest at heart. I highlighted in red key statements by jarvis. One very quick answer to the issue mentioned at the beginning of his email, ALL, for hire fishing and recreational data, from state and federal waters whether federally permitted or not, is and has always been included in the MRFSS. Look at the red snapper landings for 07 and see where the feds said most red snapper came from, state waters. State water data is one of the many issues that have to be considered when discussing red snapper and other federally managed species.

For those who may not know, jbarger, is Jeff Barger who works for Environmental Defense. Apparently, according to this email, he is the editor of many of the communications some have received from jarvis and others. This is interesting behind the scenes info from someone who tells everyone that everything is open and above board. 

Also for those who may not know, Andy is Andy Strelcheck, the NMFS staffer who works with most of the red snapper information and Bev, is Beverly Sauls who works for the FWRI in St Pete and works on all the recreational data for Florida and works with the Science and Technology folks of the NMFS in Silver Spring. She is also the Chairperson of the for-hire work group of the MRIP program. This meeting was held in Destin this past Tues and Wed. There were representatives of a Northeast commercial lobster fishery who use the electronic logbook system developed by Olfish, http://www.olfish.com/. This link will provide you the details of this company. As always, Andy was direct and to the point and does not mislead anyone with his knowledge of the current fishery issues. He still cannot tell us how many days of fishing will be projected for red snapper because all the data is still not available. Beverly is always informative and knows the data system and process extremely well and provided some good insight to those in attendance.

Keeping you informed,

Bob

Begin forwarded 

From: [email protected] 
To: [email protected] 
Subject: debrief meeting 
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:02:16 +0000 


JB , good meeting .A number of things were brought out. The issue of wether charter for hire state water guide boats were included in the MRFSS data concerning our TAC % history was discussed, we are going to find out if they are our are not and how they apply to our over all plan . We need to address this before the Jan Council meeting. On the issue of the over all meeting perceptions these were noted. 1) Andy was encouraging but also conservative so as not to get our hopes too high. 2) Bev was resistive at first but warmed up somewhat during the Log book presentation when all the bells and whistles were presented. 3) In our future discussion and e-mails of the plan, the words Zales, Bobie Walker and Present leadership must be removed from MY vocabulary ( compliments of Mike Eller throwing the BS flag on me). I promised him that as of this meeting I would not do it anymore. ( I had already sent the earlier e-mail this morning showing all Charter for Hire the FWC letters. Ha! ) 4) We need to have some discussion about general ideas for how we can help the private rec sector formulate a plan that works hand in hand with ours, this to make us look like the saviors of the recreational fisheries across the board.
Now to the media issue . First of all Mike,Scott and Tracy are going to put in writing a more complex explanation behind the motivation on why we want the different parts of the plan. When they finish they will send it to you to perform you editorial magic you have at your finger tips. When we start the public media approach we need to express in our info that we give out, that we are looking out for the majority of recreational anglers in our plan ,that we take millions of true recreational fishermen that fish with us. Also we need to begin to express the fact that Charter for hire fishermen from Florida and Alabama with help and input from Ms, LA are trying to help recreational fishermen Gulf wide by beginning a cutting edge forward moving plan involving not only Charter for hire businessmen, but fishery managers and environmental agency's to save red snapper from being over fished resulting in long term healthy stocks for generation of recreational anglers to catch ( damn I am beginning to sound like you ).
And the last item was discussion on counting the customers that have fished with us the last few years and this up coming year as later ammo for when the Separation debate comes up . That is a brief over view from the meeting . I am cc this to the folks that were there and if any of you guys want to add anything for Jeff please feel free. See Ya Jeff Gary </DIV>__________________</DIV>


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Please read thedocument linked below.

This is the wayNOAA is selling a public resource to private business people and in the process denying the general public access to the fishery. This is why the SOS boys want to join the IFQ program because it would guarantee that they and their families would enjoy exclusiveaccess to the fishery while YOU and your family are denied access.

This document expressly explains that the IFQ *<U>is</U>* the selling of our resource!

https://ifq.sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/ifqrs...8withnoVMS.pdf 

We need to be ready with a second round of protest of the SOS proposal. If we sit idle, the only way we will ever have access to the fishery is to go on a charter boat. Divers, you can forget it because the dive charters won't be getting a nice chunk of the IFQ share.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

For some reason the link that I copiedthat should have taken you directly to the IFQ frequently asked questions document doesn't work so try this then click on Frequently Asked Questions. Heck, read all the documents if you really want to have a good understanding of what is going on.

https://ifq.sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/ifqrs/index.cfm


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

candy 



It saden's me to see you updated this alarmist post after making such good headway on the problem of bad data!



What I see in the IFQ link is how commerical fishermen are being accountable and did not go over the TAC.given them.

and they feed there familys keep up there homes/buisness it is a way of life not going to change any time soon with accountabilty measures in place on *commerical boats THEY ARE IN COMPLYENCE with the law.and came in under there TAC. *



You will need a better catch phrase than THERE SELLING OUR FISH or THERE RUNNING YOU OFF THE WATER YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR FISH. If you can propose a true win win plan lets hear it! better yet let us see it work.because win win will be when all sectors are accountable. 



We need to fix the rest of the fishery taking there IFQ. shuttting them down these things *most likely will not happen while they are the accountable ones.*



Red snapper have/are rebounding but the time frame NMFS. works with, bad data, will not show this rebound for three to five years.



The problem is in the rec. sector we must fix it inside this sector.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

> *capt.eugene (12/19/2008)*candy
> 
> It saden's me to see you updated this alarmist post after making such good headway on the problem of bad data!
> 
> ...


At this rate in 3-5 years they will be eating small children swimming on the beach!

Once again I dissagree with the statement that the "problem" is with the rec sector. We have the best snapper fishing we have had in the last 30 years, what exactly is the problem?


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

> *Matt Mcleod (12/19/2008)*
> 
> 
> 
> Once again I dissagree with the statement that the "problem" is with the rec sector. We have the best snapper fishing we have had in the last 30 years, *what exactly is the problem? *




Matt 



The problem its seems lost to alot of people who don't agree with the statement rec.fisherman [ you & I ] are the problem. That statement means You & I and any other fisherman ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO THE NMFS. 

They don't know what we catch so they make up a number by using averages and some sicentific method when applied to redsnapper they say we are catching to many fish to allow rebuilding by ther deadline of yr 2010 



HOPE THIS HELPS Because i agree fishing is better than ever.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

But better catch data is only better catch data, how will that help with the *problem??* Better data is not the "problem" it is a solution to a "problem". So I'm still wondering, what's the problem???


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Bad scenice/ NMFS /* Mag.Stevens Act.*To many fighting not fixing is my thought.

basicly gov. when it comes to rec. they don't have needed data


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

I guess my point is thatwe don't have a problem. We have the nmfs trying to fix something that's not broken. Once we start negotiating TAC numbers and datawe are admitting we have a problem when we don't have a problem. That is my biggest problem with ALL of the ideas I've seen so far. 

Why are we agreeing to help solve a problem we don't have??

And this questionis not meant just for Eugene. I applaudall the work everyone has done in an effort to help us keep our right to snapper fish, butI think all of these ideas arestill a way to negotiate with the nmfs and don't address the fact that we have no problem.

Why am I wrong??


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Matt



I see to your point but the only two options we have are to overthrow the gov or negotiate with them.



I'M for the latter



*64 Day season is a problem*


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Eugene 

you need to let your boy and fellow SOS planner Gary Jarvis that he needs to shape up and exercisetightercontrol of his emails between himself and the Envirmental Defense Fund anti-fishing wackos. 

Quotes like "this to make us look like the saviors of the recreational fisheries across the board." only serve to piss good recreationalfishingfolks off so that we are even more are willing to mass in force and fundthe fight for recreational fishing rights.

[quote

From: [email protected] 
To: [email protected] 
Subject: debrief meeting 
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:02:16 +0000 


JB , good meeting .A number of things were brought out. The issue of wether charter for hire state water guide boats were included in the MRFSS data concerning our TAC % history was discussed, we are going to find out if they are our are not and how they apply to our over all plan . We need to address this before the Jan Council meeting. On the issue of the over all meeting perceptions these were noted. 1) Andy was encouraging but also conservative so as not to get our hopes too high. 2) Bev was resistive at first but warmed up somewhat during the Log book presentation when all the bells and whistles were presented. 3) In our future discussion and e-mails of the plan, the words Zales, Bobie Walker and Present leadership must be removed from MY vocabulary ( compliments of Mike Eller throwing the BS flag on me). I promised him that as of this meeting I would not do it anymore. ( I had already sent the earlier e-mail this morning showing all Charter for Hire the FWC letters. Ha! ) 4) We need to have some discussion about general ideas for how we can help the private rec sector formulate a plan that works hand in hand with ours, this to make us look like the saviors of the recreational fisheries across the board.
Now to the media issue . First of all Mike,Scott and Tracy are going to put in writing a more complex explanation behind the motivation on why we want the different parts of the plan. When they finish they will send it to you to perform you editorial magic you have at your finger tips. When we start the public media approach we need to express in our info that we give out, that we are looking out for the majority of recreational anglers in our plan ,that we take millions of true recreational fishermen that fish with us. Also we need to begin to express the fact that Charter for hire fishermen from Florida and Alabama with help and input from Ms, LA are trying to help recreational fishermen Gulf wide by beginning a cutting edge forward moving plan involving not only Charter for hire businessmen, but fishery managers and environmental agency's to save red snapper from being over fished resulting in long term healthy stocks for generation of recreational anglers to catch ( damn I am beginning to sound like you ).
And the last item was discussion on counting the customers that have fished with us the last few years and this up coming year as later ammo for when the Separation debate comes up . That is a brief over view from the meeting . I am cc this to the folks that were there and if any of you guys want to add anything for Jeff please feel free. See Ya Jeff Gary __________________</DIV>

[/quote]

Mark W


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

> *Matt Mcleod (12/19/2008)*I guess my point is thatwe don't have a problem. We have the nmfs trying to fix something that's not broken. Once we start negotiating TAC numbers and datawe are admitting we have a problem when we don't have a problem. That is my biggest problem with ALL of the ideas I've seen so far.
> 
> Why are we agreeing to help solve a problem we don't have??
> 
> ...


You arenot wrong, actually you couldn't be more right.

While the recs, charters, and commercials duke it out, the only people getting what they want are the anti-fishing enviro whack jobs.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Eugene 

Here is your good friend "Jeff Barger's" Biography from the Environmental Defense Fund website. http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=879

Note that he is trained as abiologist. Mr. Barger is the Environmental Defense Fundrepresentaive Gary Jarvis was trading email with. 

Bargerprobably sold out right out of collegeto the enviromental whack jobsfor the money. 

Wonder if he has ever even wet a lineon a Gulf bottom fishing trip?<H1 class=expertName>Jeff Barger</H1><P class=expertTitle>Regional Fisheries Project Coordinator<DIV class=expertWorkBackground><H3>Work</H3>

JeffBarger joined Environmental Defense?s Austin, TX office in August of 2006 as a project coordinator for the Gulf of Mexico fisheries project.He is working to advance innovative, market-basedstrategies to improve recreational fisheries management throughout the Gulf of Mexico region.

Prior to joining Environmental Defense, Barger worked as an aquatic habitats specialist for the National Wildlife Federation where he organized a diverse group of interests to develop equitable alternatives to several water development projects that threatened critical wildlife habitat in the Lower Mississippi Alluvial Valley.He has also served as a restoration biologist for The Nature Conservancy. Post-graduate training included investigations of the structure and function of freshwater systems of the intermountain west and the role terrestrial-aquatic linkages play in stream nutrient dynamics.<H3>Background</H3>

B.S ? Biology, University of Central Arkansas

Click on below web link and you will see that the Environmental Defense Fund was responsible for infusing $505,000 of lobby dollars into thepolitical system in 2008.http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Environmental+Defense+Fund&year=2008 

Money talks and bs + recreational fishing rights walk...</DIV>


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## keep smilin (Nov 28, 2008)

You underestimate, again. Jeff was actually on Alaska fishing boats for a couple of years, and through his involvement in our fisheries, has probably fished from each of the Gulf states.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Howdy,

*There is one SEROUS flaw in Jarvis' plan, and it's really quite simple;*

*The for-hire sector (captains and crew) are not allowed to catch ANY snapper - that is the law.*

*100% OF THE SNAPPER ON FOR-HIRE VESSELS ARE CAUGHT BY RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN.*

*There is no justification for dividing the recreational TAC.*

All the best,

Tom Hilton


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## keep smilin (Nov 28, 2008)

Tom

The SOS plan doe not take any of the TAC FROM recreational anglers, you said so yourself. All fish caught on charter boats are caught by recreational anglers. The SOS plan improves the data collection and accountability for all of these anglers (a big chunck of the recreational anglers out there). It is one step in the right direction. Stamps are another step.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Keep Smiling,

The purpose of dividing anything is to separate something - in this case the Recreational 49% TAC. It belongs to the Recreational Fishermen, and not to any for-hire operator, and therefore any division of this TAC is not justified nor necessary.

Doing this in the name of "data collection" does not fly as there are a myriad of other methods to collect data without removing access to the resource to people who choose not to ride on a for-hire vessel. The "Black Hole" of the recreational industry as explained by Jarvis illustrates his contempt forthose recreational fishermenwho are notcustomers of the for-hire industry...they are then competitors for the TAC, thus the need, in the eyes of the proponents of SOS, to divide the TAC.

The For-Hire Captains and Crew cannot legallycatch any Red Snapper - how can they claim historic catches? 100% of the Red Snapper caught on their charters are caught by Recreational Fishermen - those are the facts. 

Let's focus on saving the fish and not yourselves. 

All the best,

Tom Hilton


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Tom,

Thank you for your astute observation. I hope to meet you at the FFWCC meeting in February in Destin!


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Tom, it's obvious this "keep smilin" guy thinks you(we) are stupid. His argument is much like trying to convince a child to eat broccoli instead of candy by saying they taste the same.

Again I'm going to ask the question, why do we want to collect data?


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

> *capt.eugene (12/19/2008)*Matt
> 
> I see to your point but the only two options we have are to overthrow the gov or negotiate with them.
> 
> ...


I don't believe those are the only two options. I think that's what the nmfs would like us to believe, that we have no option but to fight over TAC numbers. 

Once we concede that we have a problem that we don't have we are in trouble then. At what point is the fishery problem "fixed"? Since there is no problem and you can't fix something that's not broke, howwill it bedecided that we don't have the problem anymore? 

We must stop all this arguing and demand that the nmfs proves to us we have a problem. We are not the problem they are! We don't have false data they do! Why should I have to get stamps because your numbers are wrong! We don't have a snapper problem, we have a scientist problem!


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

> *Matt Mcleod (12/21/2008)*We don't have a snapper problem, we have a scientist problem!


:clap


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

If the goal of the SOS is to improve data collection and accountability then get the VMS, get the log books and leave it at that.

If you're running taxi service for recreational anglers, how does their catch differ than mine? Why would it go in a separate pile or come from a separate piece of the pie?

Other than to give you guys more time on the water and the possibility of transfering your commercial IFQ to your charter or vice-versa?


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

And while we're at it.

Keep Smilin, who are you.

Please identify yourself.

Eugene is here as himseld, Mike Lilly, Matt McLeod, Me (my last name is too long for a screen name but it's Zwierzchowski if you're interested.)

Be honest about who you are.


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## pogypumper (Mar 24, 2008)

> *JoeZ (12/21/2008)*If the goal of the SOS is to improve data collection and accountability then get the VMS, get the log books and leave it at that.
> If you're running taxi service for recreational anglers, how does their catch differ than mine? Why would it go in a separate pile or come from a separate piece of the pie?
> Other than to give you guys more time on the water and the possibility of transfering your commercial IFQ to your charter or vice-versa?


:clap:clap:clap


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Hey you guys.



You ever heard IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM JOIN THEM!



Tom

It is not jarvis's plan it is the SOS. plan a group of ten got over one hundred signatures and got you all peaved. The no fish for cap & crew is an emerigency rule not law if it is show me please. If We save the fish not ourselves why save the fish. 



We are here by GODS hand Jesus feed us fish by his hand if you don't now these FACTS GO TO CHURCH on sunday you will see! unless you all belive the world,space,animals,fish,you and myself. We must just be an acident or a fluke of evalution.



The bottom line is NMFS is cutting days of fishing for us all I can't speak for all but I do now this sixty four days is not enough days to run my buisness. 



So I asked for help from GOD and withen a few days I was contacted by Jeff Barger. 

The rest is public info.



JOEZ 

Who would benifit the rec because commerical can not take the rec share of quota! I would because I get to run My boat to take rec's fishing. FYI I Eugene don't have a Commerical Lic.

Our catch differs because without "taxi's"millions of rec. will not have a ride,capt,deckhend,peace of mind of some gov involvement on there taxi ride/platform.Platform because there is no Sidewalk to stand on when you get out of the Taxi.



The myraid of other data [Tom] refers got us to a 64 day season. And He is wrong on this 100% caught by rec. is false 

it started last year and is not law it is inturem rule. He has never been on my boat to see the days when the fish weren't biting well. And myself & the deckhand had to hook every fish so the rec"s could go home with fish. 



I'm sorry for the M.S. spell check won't work.



Leave you with this go back to edf's homepage checkout Dr.Jane Lubchenco That should peave you ALL some more

let me know how you like it.



Marry CHRISTmas

Capt. Eugene Coley


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

PRESS RELEASE 
Monterey Bay Aquarium Executive Director Applauds Selection of Jane Lubchenco to Head NOAA 

Last update: 7:24 p.m. EST Dec. 18, 2008 
MONTEREY, Calif., Dec 18, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Statement from Julie Packard, executive director of the Monterey Bay Aquarium, on the announcement that President-elect Barack Hussein Obama will appoint Dr. Jane Lubchenco as Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere and NOAA Administrator. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is the nation's principal ocean agency. 
"I am absolutely delighted that Jane Lubchenco has been named NOAA Administrator by President-elect Obama. This is a great day for the future of the oceans. 
I've long had an opportunity to work closely with Dr. Lubchenco. She is an extraordinary scientist who brings great creativity and innovation to addressing the grave threats facing our oceans today. She knows the magnitude of the threats and for decades has demonstrated national leadership in addressing these challenges. 
Today, pollution, overfishing and global warming are taking a huge toll on marine life. It's happening along our coasts, and around the world. Without swift and effective action, we risk causing irreparable damage to ecosystems on which all life depends. 
Jane Lubchenco has been an impressive advocate for ocean issues. I'm confident that, under her visionary leadership, NOAA will employ the best science on behalf of the oceans. All of us at the Monterey Bay Aquarium look forward to working with Dr. Lubchenco and the Obama administration to protect and restore the oceans." 
Background: Julie Packard served on the Pew Oceans Commission, is vice-chair of the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, and was the 1998 recipient of the Audubon Medal for Conservation. 
Dr. Lubchenco is past-president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the Ecological Society of America; a MacArthur Fellow; recipient of the Heinz Environmental Medal; and served with Julie Packard on the Pew Oceans Commission, and the boards of trustees for the Monterey Bay Aquarium, the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, and the David and Lucile Packard Foundation. 
SOURCE Monterey Bay Aquarium 

Copyright (C) 2008 PR Newswire. All rights reserved End of Story 


Mark W


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Capt. Eugene,

Quit parsing - the fact of the matter is that if captain and crew were to retain their catch in addition to the catch reserved for their recreational clients, it would be against the LAW, period. Additionally, the recreational fishermen catch (no matter who hooks the fish) and places these red snapper in the ice chests on the for-hire vessel. Without the recreational fishermen chartering the for-hire vessel AND going fishing aboard this vessel, there would be NO Red Snapper allowed to be placed in any ice chests aboard said boat, period, or it would be against the LAW.

Let's get on with better data collection techniques, and leave this bad idea (SOS Plan) to die a well-deserved death, God Willing.

Dividing the TAC is nothing more than a power grab by the SOS group, nothing more.

All the best,

Tom Hilton


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Tom 

Just read your post on Proposed Red Snapper liked it alot especialy about the shrimpboats *Dead on *I wish I had a power play for them. I would call it SAVE OUR SHRIMPER'S I would inclued my self happly in that fight proudly as well seeing how I've been there done that too.

You say SOS. is a power play that is fine you have the right. Everybody is stuck on sector sep. thats fine too they have the right.The rest of the SOS.plan covers the bad data you mention.I felt I needed to do something so I did.*I think you are all blind to the fact nobody was doing a damn thing but sitting on thier butt Crying I wish I could go fishing. Until SOS plan came up.:reallycrying:reallycrying:reallycrying



 So power play or not it got Y'all off your butt:banghead:banghead









:usaflag*


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Eugene,

That's the thing, we haven't been sitting on our butts. 

The RFRA and other groups have been working on this for years. We've been fighting the bad data. Now that you guys are pushing for sector separation, we're losing ground in all that we've done.

Will this keep you on the water a few extra days? Sure. 

Will it help you sustain a long-term business/ecology model that will be profitable in fish and dollars 10, 15 or 25 years from now? Nope.

You do know that if your SOS plan fails, you and the other 99 signatures on that list will be blackballed by thousands of far-paying anglers, other captains and eventually just have driven yourselves out of business.

Can you just answer my question as to why the need for sector separation? Why not just improve the data gathering with VMS and electronic log books?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Eugene

With the new boss at NOAA and her background I think we all might be better served by selling our offshore boats for what we can getand going bream fishing on the mobile river delta with the open time.With a Pewand EDF background I don't think she is going to be any offshore fisherman's friend charter, commercial, or recreational.Global warming be damned...

Mark W


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

JoeZ



Why sector sep. Because The millions of rec anglers of Fl./Tx. want April thru October right.

That F'S UP Fed waters. *If all charter/headboats fish state waters with our millions of taxi fair riders were are the fish in this picture.*Alabama only has three miles mostly dedicated to shrimping. Our 1200 nautical mile reef zone we built is in federal waters. 



So I have the right say but I have not until now YOU Florida/Tex rec fisherman wanting to buck the fed are killing me!



Soooo. Joe get with the right group of guys Your stamps might move faster SORRY I'M messing you up.:doh

as I have said on earlyer post OUR PLAN CAME FROM the AGENDA of GULF COUNCIL were just volunteering for it all sector sep. too.



Because it is about family's/the people /the buisnesses of the gulf coast that matter.:letsdrink



The fish are FOOD.





:usaflag


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

> *capt.eugene (12/21/2008)*
> 
> The fish are FOOD.
> 
> ...


On the brighter or lighter side I have heard that pickled skip jack are good on a cracker if you are really really hungry.

Mark W


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Damn Mark

hard enough to type without the puke on my keyboardsicksick:bpts





PS; MCDONALDS LOVES THEM FOR FILET O FISH says there cheap!!!


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

> *capt.eugene (12/21/2008)*JoeZ
> 
> Why sector sep. Because The millions of rec anglers of Fl./Tx. want April thru October right.
> That F'S UP Fed waters. *If all charter/headboats fish state waters with our millions of taxi fair riders were are the fish in this picture.*Alabama only has three miles mostly dedicated to shrimping. Our 1200 nautical mile reef zone we built is in federal waters.
> ...


So Eugene, this plan came from the Gulf Council??? 

Am I understanding that correctly? 

The Gulf Council had sector seperation on their agenda and you're simply volunteering for it?

If that's true, that is VERY interesting. Can you provide a copy of that agenda for us?


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Candy



Could answer that with one word NO!!!



Weve done all the leg work for our plan. Do some yourself!!! I'm just A DUMB A_ _,POS.FOR-HIRE out to get HALF YOUR TAC .



I couldn't live with my self if I were to steer you wrong. By giving you something that is public knowledge.:doh 











:usaflag


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

We'll be discussing the SOS plan tonight on the Gulf Coast Outdoors Show on BLAB TV (Pensacola only sorry).

I you feel you have something to talk about regarding this or the recent Army Corps of Engineers issues we've been dealing with, please call in as we're a live talk show.

The number is (850) 432-7768. We're on air from 7 to 8 p.m. TONIGHT (12/21).


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## keep smilin (Nov 28, 2008)

> *JoeZ (12/21/2008)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Sorry Candy 



I :sleeping was mistaken it was the HAD-HOC RECREATION RED SNAPPER ADVISERY PANEL meeting agenda. If you need to know what they do let me know. 



Eugene 









:usaflag


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Capt. Eugene,

You said it yourself - the data is bad. Do not blame TX or FL for wanting to retain their rights to manage their own fisheries as dictated by the 10th Amendment of the Constitution. Texas, I KNOW, has a done a FAR better job of managing the fisheries in their offshore state waters than the feds have done in federal waters - why would they want to follow failed management policies?

The feds are using TX and FL as scapegoats to further restrict our fishing - it's as simple as that. Just look at the following stats - they, unlike some of our leading federal fisheries managers, do not lie;

1) We fished for years under a 9.12 million pound TAC, from April 21 to October 31 (194 days), where the commercials failed to meet their quota consistently and the recs did not exceed their quota. *These figures DID INCLUDE the state fishing regs in Florida and Texas in the overall TAC - that is a matter of public record. *Additionally, the bag limit was 4 fish per person in federal waters AND captain and crew were able to keep their catches. *How, now that we are under a 5 million pound TAC (a 45% reduction in poundage), we have a 2 fish per person bag limit, AND the capt. and crew are not keeping their catches, shouldn't that correlate to at the most a 45% reduction in fishing days?* 194 * .55 = 107 days, assuming that fishing effort was constant. 

2) Initially the NMFS set the 2008 season to be from June 1 to September 30 (122 days), however, they decided to reduce it even further to *65 days* blaming Texas' and Florida's incompatible regs. *BS!* Further, they are now claiming that the recreational fishery overfished its allocation in those 65 days, again putting pressure on Texas and Florida to kowtow to their demands. What? *How can we have possbily overfished our TAC in 65 days, with a 50% reduction in daily bag limit, considering what has happened to the offshore fishing industry in the last few years?* There are fewer boats on the water this year than in any year in memory due to storms/hurricanes, restrctive NMFS regs, high fuel prices, bad economy, etc.etc. There is a serious need for an investigation here, as it looks as though the NMFS has hired Madoff to cook the numbers for them - they just don't make any sense whatsoever, and we are losing our fishing future because of it.

3) A 4,468,800 million pound recreational TAC / 194 days = 23,035 pounds/day. A 2,450,000 million pound recreational TAC / 65 days = 37,692 pounds/day - a *64% increase per day in catches happened in 2008 relative to previous years, accomplished in conjunction with a 50% less per day bag limit - INCREDIBLE!* Yet this is what the NMFS is claiming that we able to accomplish. What? How? *Exactly HOW was that possible with the greatly reduced effort, greatly reduced (50%) reduction in bag limits, coupled with no catches for captain and crew reductions?* Since we can't catch more per day to achieve this due to daily bag limits, then the only other variable is an associated 128% increase in effort over previous years (64% increase in poundage / 50% reduction in daily bag limit = 128% increase in effort). *BALONEY, and we all know it. *

4) No, that's right, *they are claiming we OVERFISHED our allotment in 2008* so that we will be seeing maybe a 14 day season next year, if one at all. *That means we probably were able to attain at least a 260% INCREASE in effort per day, every day, to achieve that incredible feat.* *Aren't there any attorneys out there (individual attorneys or those working for fishing associations) that could use these figures for the basis of a class action lawsuit? The government's figures are CLEARLY bogus here.*


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

MAke that 8 to 9 p.m. tonight on BLAB


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Tom



Didn"t read all your post because first sentence is all i needed to say this I have to fish federal waters off of Alabama. 



They have the right to manage how they see fit IT JUST COST ME UNDER FEDERAL GUIDLINES AND SHORTER SEASON.



You must not read all my post.:banghead 

Pose you a question. 



:bowdown *Tom Hilton you have ALL the Numbers[fishing reefs too] How about some answers. How would you fix the delima for a For-Hire Taxi in federal waters off Al?*and what are you doing [ I. R. L.] to help the fisheries ?









:usaflag


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

> *keep smilin (12/21/2008)*
> 
> 
> > *JoeZ (12/21/2008)*
> ...


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

KEEP Begging JoeZ Because HE guna KEEP SMILEN :moon



Sorry! but thats funny stuff more meat for the dog's HA!:doh

















:usaflag


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Candy (12/21/2008)*
> 
> 
> > *capt.eugene (12/21/2008)*JoeZ
> ...


Candy,

The Environmental Defense Fund (EDF) rep (Mr. Barger)apppears to be a main promoter of theSoSplan (ifnot one of theoriginal authors). EDF's bread and butterwith respect to fishery issues is support for IFQ's, MPA'sand in generallimiting recreational fisherman access to offshore fisheries.

Mark W


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

> *capt.eugene (12/22/2008)*KEEP Begging JoeZ Because HE guna KEEP SMILEN :moon
> 
> Sorry! but thats funny stuff more meat for the dog's HA!:doh
> 
> :usaflag


From reading another forum - I believe"keep smilin" lives in Summerdale, AL and used to run a cape horn bay boat.

Mark Watson


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

KEEP TRYING CAUSE HE KEEP SMILEN :doh


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## keep smilin (Nov 28, 2008)

Mark,

I you are genuinely interested, sector separation has been mentioned quite a few times in Gulf Council public testimonies for at least the last couple of years. The minutes of every word spoken at every Gulf Council meeting, including public testimony, is available online at the gulf council website (look in library of older briefing books, first section, minutes of the previous meeting can be found there). The find word feature is really handy if you are trying to get through the huge documents. The Ad Hoc Recreational Red Snapper Advisory Panel (AHRRSAP) was created mid 2007, has met several times and all of these ideas, VMS, electronic log books, sector separation, and stamps have been discussed at great lengths. At a minimum, summarizing minutes of the AHRRSAP are available, in a couple of cases actual transcripts are available. If there is anything specific you are looking for, I suggest contacting the gulf council public relations lady, Carlene Ponce. She is tremendously helpful. Hope this helps.

Joe Z

Random internet tards? Lots of things I might be. don't think tard is one of them, but keep smilin!


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Keep Smilin,

Thanks for the web link. Interesting reading, through researchingthe websiteI feltI was able toget a good feel forGulf Council processes andmember personalitieswhich resultin recomendations out of the Gulf Council andultimately NMFSaction.

When you considerthe below National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) organizational chart, which is at most the lower 1/3"of our Federal government's organizational structureresponsible for setting policy and regulationfor theFederal fisheries (Gulf of Mexico included), it is easy to discernwhy the common everyday recreational fishermanlike myself feel that he or she has little to no voice on what policy and regulations are set.

As I understand itthe "Gulf Council" falls under "the NMFS Southeast regional office" andthe remaining upper 2/3's of the organizational structure is comprised ofthe National Oceanographic and AtmosphericAdministration (NOAA) organizational structure -which sits on top of the depicted NMFS organizational structure, and theDepartment of Commerce Organizational Structure which sits ontop of the NOAA organizational structure. Eventuallythe Department of Commercereports out to the Congressional (committee)and Executive branches.

Bottom line it is hardtofind the belly button in the organization or the Congressman "who cares" that could make a difference for the recreational fisherman. The organization is set up to entertain the thoughts and wisdom of, and execute the desired actions of P.H.D's in marine science,and not the desires of the voting public.All the scientist's employed by the federal government have to do is wrap themselves in thebanner of the Magnuson-Stevenson Act,employtheir owninterpretationsand belief systems, and march forthoblivious and uncaring as to thepeople's will. 

Guess their always is the chance of another Boston Tea Party...

NMFS Structure


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

In somewhat related news regarding the tracking of saltwater recreational anglers... 

"NOAA is creating a national saltwater angler registry of all marine recreational recreational fishermen..... A requirement to establish a registry was included in a statute approved by Congress in 2007."

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20081223_registry.html

Mark W


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## backdown2 (Dec 23, 2008)

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=smalltxt vAlign=top><SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl9_lblFullMessage><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Ms Hansard ,I have really tried to be courteous and forth rite in explaining all the tenets and motivations on why the Charter for hire industry has presented the NMFS our SOS plan. We took great pains and thoughtfulness to address every possible need for all fishers of red snapper into account. We have a need to protect the 60+ years of being the only true public access to sport fishing in the Gulf of Mexico for recreational fishermen but at the same time made sure that our plan would be fair , truthful, open and a positive benefit to this extremely valuable resource and to the other 2 user groups involved with this fishery. But you for some reason that escapes me have decided to continue on the same path of baseless rhetoric that has gotten us in this mess in the first place. Now in this letter below you make some claims that you espouse as fact when in reality they have been conjured up in your own mind.I believe it is official nowthat you live in a world of make believe, For reasons I know not, you just do not get it. I have taken great pains to explain to you and the others out there that bought into your propaganda the facts about the reality of the present red snapper dilemma that not only us but you faceas well. And against my knowing that this letter may go right over your head as well, I will once again try to give you ALL that facts concerning our plan and how it will effect the private rec sector. I will answer your rhetoric in the letter below.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Hi Eugene,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">It is admirable that you are willing to, at great expense; sacrifice your right, as an American, to privacy, in order to provide "data" to the NMFS. Ms Hansard privacy is a right but fishing or any other access to the natural resources of this country is a PRIVALGE and you and your followers need to grasp this fact before you go to any NMFS meeting.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">If you sincerely believe that this is going to make a difference, why don't you go ahead and begin that portion of the SOS plan today, on a volunteer basis. We have a pilot electronic log book program with VMS going to begin this 1 June opening. We have enough funding for 20-30 boats to use this new technology to work out the process and assilmationof data collection, transfer and storage for information sentat sea to land based facilities for this 2009 season It is unnecessary to divide the Recreational Sector in order to accomplish that "noble" goal. It would be fascinating to see how many of the Charters would actually participate in a voluntary monitoring program out of sheer concern for data collection.We have hundreds of volunteers for this for the curiosity on how the technology works has drawn interest but the funding for the pilot program only provides for about 25 vessels. The NMFS is looking at getting additional funds in Feb to fund aparallelproject at the same time which will include more boats.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Somehow, this plan looks more like a bartering attempt between the Charter Operators and the NMFS. You give us year round fishing and get those pesky monkey boats off the water and we'll give you data. Yes, it is that transparent. Anyone with one eye open can see what is going on here.Pure propaganda Candy and it is getting old. Back up your statement with some kind of facts. The SOS plan is a forward thinking, positive, conservation based plan to enhance the red snapper fishery for years to come. It will benefit the Charter industry and it WILL benefit all recreational fishermen including you. What it will not do any time soon is give usyear round fishing or anything close to it. And we have not made such a claim. It will however speed up the chances of making a true change in this fishery.With this plan you will catch more snapper when the total TAC is increased through better science and accountability. Your stance and that of others of taking the status quo position of bitching and fighting the NMFS has gotten us nowhere the last 10 years and it will not get you anywhere in the next 10 years . your failure to understand the tenets of the Magnison Stevens Act reauthorization of 2006 will prevent you from having any success when dealing with the NMFS. So you need to do your homework before you fire off these unsubstantiated claimsof knowledge of our intent or the intent of the NMFS.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">It is indisputable that the Commercial and Charter Industries put the most pressure on our fishery. Even your own statistics prove that point.What is indisputable is the fact that the commercial industry is the most regulated and most accountable sector in the Gulf of Mexico. Every single boat that fishesmakes notice to the NMFS when they leave togo fishing ,what they are fishing for , what they are using to catch the fish, give enforcement a 3 hour lead time before they hit the dock so the marine enforcement can monitor the off loading of their catch andevery fish and species caught is weight and identified with all catch records going to the NMFS . What is indisputable is the fact that long before the development of fiberglass boats and reliable outboard motors,30 years before the loran c and then the GPS The Charter for Hire sector has been fishing and landing fish for recreational anglersin the designated recreational sector. Virtually THE only access any recreational fishermen had to catch reef fish of any kindwere aboard the Party boats and few charter boats in our areas.What is undisputable that these 2 sectors are the only ones to make a red snapper plan for themselves that will protect the survival of red snapper stocks for generations to come and at the same time will ensure themselves a future in this fishery as well. NO SNAPPER ,NO SNAPPER FISHING BUSINESS.One plan ( the commercial IFQ)is in effect and it is working very well.Last year over 100,000 lbs of the red snapper IFQ was left in the gulf alive. As of tonight DEC 23 there still is 89,600 lbs of snapper that have not been harvested that could be. Under the plan dead discards went from 1 dead discard snapperto 1 kept snapper to 1 dead discard to6 kept snapper.The other plan the SOS plan will through real time data collection will prevent us from over harvesting our TAC if our plan goes through. That way we do not get penalized by you over harvesting red snapper and the ACL's take away the over harvest the following year.( which has happened every year since the mid 1990's)In 2006 the over harvest of snapper by the rec sector including charter boats was 660,620 lbs according to the MRFSS data .Under the new ACL rule if that happens thisyear the 2010 season would be reduced that amount resulting in 1/2 the season we have now. Does that appeal to you followers? It does not to me .Considering this, there was a critical element completely missing from your SOS plan.How many of the Commercial or Charter Captains would be removed from the fishery if the NMFS implemented an automatic life time ban on all commercial and Charter operators that get caught cheating?I'll go for that as long as you put that on your shoe and wear it. Now, that would give our fishery a real chance to survive. The little slaps on the hand you've been getting have done nothing to deter many in your combined industries from breaking fishery management rules in order to increase your personal incomes. Profit is a great motivator to cheat, therefore; all for-profit fishermen should be held to the highest standards.Ms Hansard I caution you not to throw stones in a glass house. According to FWC violations written in 2008 for fishing violations by salt water private boat anglers and commercialentities the score is 90filed violations for private boat saltwater anglers, 1/3 of those were divers and spear fishersvs26 violation by commercial or charter boats.That is only for the panhandle toTampa. The commercial and charter owners have far too much to lose if caught violating the rules now days .Those that do should pay for their violation and they do.The Commercial and Charter boats dock and unload at the same place day after day and we receive a lot of the enforcement effort because we are easy to enforce. Unlike the hundreds of boat ramps and private boat docks for the private angler. And now Federal violations result in sever fines and the losing of permits for months costing thousandsof dollers.The only wrist slapping is taking place on the private rec boatman who does not lose much other than the embarrassment of having his name in the paper.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">No matter how you sugar coat the SOS plan, the way you have written it, the Private Recreational Fisherman would be forced off the water.Another false claim that you can not back up with facts.Once again I will support this plan with facts and not with suppositions such as yours.The only data that the NMFS has used to manage red snapper has been MRFSS.In all the latest decisions that they have made in settinga seasons, making decisions on size of fish to harvest and baglimits to prevent over fishing and in managing us theCharterforHire fisherman by not allowing us to keep Capt and crew limits on our boats has been this data. We agree it is not what we believe in to be accurate but because we have no accountability of what we truly catchIT IS ALL THEY HAVE TO MAKE MANAGMENT DECISIONS.This data shows that the Charter for Hire sector has caught approximate 61% of the recreational TAC the last 11 years ( you can go back further and it still stayed within a few % points).They use this time period because this is when they separated us as a different sector by MAKING US A LIMITED ENTRY SECTOR.By putting a moratorium on new permits being issued.So now in the last 11 years they have managed us different than you (limited entry for us ,none for private rec. no capt or crew limit ,none for private rec . And starting this year we must follow the restrictive federal guide lines even if the states don't follow the federal season, the private rec can do as he pleases. So now even though we have been fishing in the recreational sector for over 60+ years we have been separated from the other recreational fishermen by being limited more than the private guy.This is why if we are to be managed as a separate sector than we want to operate as one, with our own plan to benefit our industry and the red snapper resource that we depend on with out being penalized with the upcoming Acl's by the lack of accountability andunfettered access by the privaterecreational boatmen.Also do not forget that even though they treat us different because we are a profit for hire industry we are the platform for over 2 million members of the us public to have access tosport fishing in the gulf.This is why we are not taking anything from recreational fishermen ,in fact we are trying to preserve this access of these millions of anglers for generations to come.This fact is why we operate in the recreational sector not the commercial .This is why weare asking for onlyour historical portion of the recreational TAC and not from the commercial. Fact, this portion of the TACis where we have and are fishing for over the last60+ years. Fact, this amount of fish we have,by NMFS data have been harvesting has been constant through the years percentage wise no matter what the length of season or bag limits have been.How could this be? Ms.Hansard made the case for me when she stated "It is indisputable that the Commercial and Charter Industries put the most pressure on our fishery. Even your own statistics prove that point"You are correct but that is because we fish more than you do. We have always fished more than the private recreational fisherman and that is why we have such a important reason to protect this fishery, more so than you .That is why the commercial industry came up with their IFQ plan. The derby fishery was dangerous for fishermen and it waskilling millions of pounds of snapper to keep a few million and they came up with a plan to stop that to protect the resource that they relied on to make a living.That is why we are in the process to do the same . Without a increase in TAC for all sectors our ability to make a living is greatly reduced.WE are extremely oriented to protect the red snapper stock to get it to a not over fish designation. We feel we are close to that but need to provide better data and science for the managers to do a better job that will benefit YOU! How?Back to your claim that the private recreational fisherman is getting forced out by our plan. I will for the 10th time go over the reality of the percentages.This is fact based on the last 10 years. from 1996- 2006 the percentages of harvest from charter for hire and private recreational has stayed constant within a few % points. During this time we went from a 7 fish per person and 180 day season all the way down to the 64 days at 2 per person. This is because we fish more than the private recreational angler on a daily basis. Always have, always will.The access to the fish has not changed with the change in season or bag limit.Our plan will not change thiscatcheffort one bit. The last ten years will protect your access to red snapper at the same level that you have always had. In fact as the TAC is increased you will have more fish to catch and even if our business improve with more trips and larger charters you will not lose any of your historical catch history just because of our success in business.so this plan works both ways. And I will tell you not on fact but just my observation that we in the Charter forHire sector probablyhave caught far more of the Recreational tac than what we have been credited with. I say this knowing that total accountability in our sector may cost me some fish. But I know with higher TAC's and Stock assessments in the future that it will all work out.That will never be acceptable to me or any private recreational fishermen.<o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I appreciate that you depend on the water to make your living but a lot of people that support recreational fishermen depend on our sport to make their living. This plan would have a devastating effect on fishing & tackle retailers, recreational boating industry, marinas, dry storage, towing insurance, etc... What about the effect this plan would have on the survivability of their businesses? We do business with most all the same people you do , and we are taking recreational fishermen as well who spend thousands of dollars patronizing the whole area.We operate in the recreational business.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The fact that the allocations need to be adjusted is obvious. As you know, a very small group of fishermen currently enjoy 51% of the entire Red Snapper allocation.They have historical and economic reasons and justificationjust as important as yours to harvest red snapper . They provide red snap to eat by the U.S. public who can not afford to come here and buy a boat or charter one. They also have a totally controlled ,accountable segment of this fishery .The NMFS is not going to take a fish that is accountable and put in a totally unaccountable ,un fettered access fisherythis is why recreational efforts to re allocate fish has failed. and will continue to fail.If you want access to that fishery at a later date support our plan and come up with a plan for private rec and maybe as we also are accountable the sharing of fish can be discussed. That needs to change. That inequity is denying every Charter Operator and Recreational Fisherman their fair and equitable treatment in the allocation process.<o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">There are no sacred cows in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region>. We need to join forces and demand that the NMFS treat ALL fishermen fairly. The resource does NOT belong to a few, it belongs to ALL of us and we should share it equally.Once again you need to do homework concerning issues such as what does the National Research center have to say, Read the Magnison Stevens reauthorization act. NMFS marine fisheries plan. And begin to see the right to fish is really the privilege to fish and if you want that privilege you must pay the price by doing things that will benefit the resource within the mandates of federal law.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">You speak of your heritage and the water as if only the "old timers" deservean exclusive right to enjoy and profit off the richness of the marine environment. Does that mean that my grand kids shouldn't have a right to become a Charter Operator or Commercial Fisherman We live in a capitalists society and anyone who wishes to purchase a Charter permit and boat or Commercial boat can do so .You must however put upthe money.You must as in any business environment consider the cost and viability of your endeavor and then make a business decisionon whether to assume the risk. Our plan will help ensure that there will be charter boat businesses to buy for the next generation of fishermen.or even the right to just fish recreationally because you want to claim the resource exclusivelyfor you and yours? You will have your exclusive protection of your historical fishing efforts protected as well. I know many Americans have the entitlement mentality but I personally don't feel like the rest of us owe you or any other "old timer" anything.<o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">There are many industries that are suffering from economic hardships these days. The fact that the Charter Industry is suffering right along with the rest of the economy is no reason to propose a plan that will force the multitudes to forfeit their access to the Gulf so that a few of you can prosper.<o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The tall and short of this entire conversation is this: Either you are Recreational or you are Commercial.We are the recreational sector that you haveenjoyed being a part of. We where here first in this sector, for over 60+ years.. We are still here in this sector harvesting more fish than you have . We also wish to see that you continue to harvest red snapper at the same level and landings that you always have the last 10 years and beyond. We also hope by helping the red snapper stocks through our plan that you and we the Charter for Hire industry that gives access to all recreational anglers will enjoy this resource for generations to come.We also encourage the private recreational boatmen TO COME UP A PLAN FOR THERE SECTOR SIMULAR TO OURS SO YOU WON'T BE PENALIZED UNDER THENEW ACL'S AND POSSIBLY HAVE NO SEASON AT ALL IN A FEW YEARS . ( THE SOTH ATLANTIC MAY CLOSE ITS REDS SNAPPER AND GROUPER SEASON THIS YEAR). We as of now are actually coming up with some ideas for a private rec plan so we can get total accountability for all and speed up the process of getting snapper out from under the over fished designation.We understand that some parts of our plan can notwork for the private boat operator. If you want to be considered Commercial, start begging for scraps from the "old timers" that were "Commercial" first.Let's see how you wouldlike thatschemeif _YOU_ are the onegetting scraps of theallocation pie. <o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">Candy Hansard<o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">For those of you who would like more background on this issue, go to the forum thread titled "Plan to take 1/2 our TAC!" There, you can read the entire SOS Plan that is being proposed by Eugene and several very wealthy Charter Operators.What a bunch of crap! you and your Govt. employed husband make a hell of a lot more than most charter guys. Theydrive around in 10 yr old pick ups and work 2 & 3 jobs .A few guys who have been doing this for 30+ years have a little to show for their efforts but it pales in the average income of the private recreational fisherman.And the work load these men go through with so little to show for it is tantamount . This is more a life style than a career.So much so that I steered all 3 of my sons to different careers. My 28 year old son made more money managing the long horn steak house than I did thisyear.All we are trying to do is protect the heritage of our industry and do it in a manner that will not effect you as a fisherman what so ever. What a baseless cheap shot you just made.If you never fished or dove another day in your life your world continues undisturbed. For us it would be devastating ,the issues of bankruptcies ,job retraining ( a little late for 50-60 yr old guys that have done nothing but fish)and the effects on families and our comunities. Candy you haveno idea of the world that you do not live in. By the way I can be reached at [email protected] We operate in public and in truth. Capt Gary Jarvis<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes"><o></o><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">Recreational Fishermen and Women and Spear Fishers,Wake up and defend your rights before they are gone.<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes"><P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN style="mso-no-proof: yes">If you would like to join aRecreational Fishermen's Movement for Fairness in Fishing, contact me at [email protected] <o></o> 

<SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl9_lblPostSignature>Candy Hansard
Emerald Coast Reef Association
Reef Deployment Director
Director of Marketing
Forum Administrator
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Gary,

I hate to even write a response to your post, because since even you can't believe that any private boat owning red snapper fisherman will buy into your spin on the SOS plan, you must be trolling for ideas for your next set of Environmental Defense Fund co-drafted talking points to counter arguments against your SoS plan. 

However, because I care about my right and the rights of other private boat owning red snapper fisherman I feel I must reply just in case the uninformed fail to realize what the SOS plan would actually do to them in the long run....

Gary you like to put the 'spin: on the SOS plan and sell it as a forward thinking red snapper conservation plan, Simply put the SOS plan is a business model specifically designed to ensure that you keep your business going and growing and that is what I personally have a problem with . The SOS plan will benefit you and other charter for hire red snapper boats at the expense of private boat owning Gulf recreational red snapper anglers like me. See comments below on your statements



> *backdown2 (12/24/2008)*
> 
> 'We have a need to protect the 60+ years of being the only true public access to sport fishing in the Gulf of Mexico'
> 
> ...


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