# Question for Reloaders



## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

If my son keeps target shooting at this pace, I will be broke by March.
He's wanting to get into reloading (mostly 9mm and .45 acp) so I'm thinking about helping him get set up.
I'm thinking buying one of those starter sets would be the way to go.
He's done some research and has been talking about a set with a Lee turret press.
If you were just starting out and had nothing, what set would you buy and where would you buy it from ?
Thanks for the help.


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## Joraca (Dec 29, 2007)

A turret press or single stage press is best if you are experimenting with different loads.

Once the load has been selected, a progressive press is best, although a turret press is reasonably fast for quantities of less than 100.

I have two Lee 1000 progressive presses. (and a single stage Lyman) I would look at the difference in cost between the turret press (I started off with a turret press) and the least expensive progressive press. A progressive press once it is set up and adjusted will load at least 300 per hour.

If he is comfortable with math, a digital scale from harbor freight can be used to set up the powder charge for either a turret or progressive press. The rest of what you (he) will need equipment-wise will come in the box.

Folks on here will give pointers on what loads will work best for his intended application, if he will ask.

Joraca


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## timc (Oct 19, 2009)

I've just gotten into reloading myself, luckily for me I was given a lot of stuff so I didn't have to go out and buy much.
I too use Lee presses, but mine are single stage, for now. 
Get the book, The ABC's of reloading, and have him read it all. Very informative and has detailed instructions on loading and casting of bullets. 
As far as using a turret press, I can't help you there, although, having one will allow you to reload more ammo quicker.
Place to shop, I've had good luck at these places
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit

http://www.natchezss.com/index.cfm


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## kaferhaus (Oct 8, 2009)

For pistol ammo a single stage press is very sloooow. The inexpensive progressive presses often have issues with staying in time and can be frustrating for a beginner.

Make sure you buy carbide dies for pistol ammo.... saves a ton of time and mess...


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Load-Master-Progressive-Press-90936/dp/B000N8HVYW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1325636737&sr=8-5

Ive been using this one for about a year now, and although I can be frustrating when it gets "out of time"....It HAS produced thousands of .380, 9mm and .45 target rounds for me. I can produce .45 for about 12 cents a piece. 9mm and .380 for about 12 cents. I can do as many as 400 rounds in an hour when it is running smoothly. Accurate #2 seems to go the farthest and works well in short barreled pistols. You can get Wolf primers from www.wideners.com .
The most dangerous thing about the process would be double charging a round.....you really have to PAY ATTENTION.


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## shootnstarz (May 4, 2011)

Midway USA and Midsouth Shooters Supply are a couple of places I've done a lot of business with and always had great service. There are other places that sell reloading supplies that are just as good.

A lot of people are using Lee products and many a round has been loaded with their stuff. But for me, and I've been doing it over 15 years, Lee equipment is just a little too cheaply made, other than their dies which are great.

Loading ammo is a serious task that should not be taken lightly. It is not the place to skimp on quality or accuracy in measuring. It requires attention to detail and concentration.

I suggest, and this is only my opinion, purchasing one of the single stage kits, preferably the RCBS brand. Once he learns the basics of reloading using the SS press and gets the measuring, weighing and processes down pat he can then aquire a progressive press, as he will already have most of the multitude of accessories needed to properly and safely load ammo. That way he will not be turning out hundreds of improperly loaded rounds on a fancy progressive press.

Whatever route you take reloading is the best way to shoot cheaply and tailor ammo for your specific firearm. But like any other hobby, there's always something else to spend money on.

Rick


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## midnight son (Apr 1, 2011)

I agrree with the above post. I would start with an RCBS kit, with the addition of a digital scale. Beam scales are for the birds now. I started with an RCBS starter kit and a couple yaers later got a Dillon progressive. Can't say enough about the quality of those two companies products. I still load all of my rifle rounds, and .45 Colts on the single stage RCBS. They are slower, but much better for the novice. I would say with all gear in place it takes me about 1.5 hours to do 100 rounds of .45 Colt with the single stage. I'm very methodical, and check powder levels on each and every case before the bullet gets seated.

I will say that I enjoy that handloading aspect of the sport as much as I do the shooting. Good luck.

midnightson


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*reloading*



midnight son said:


> I agrree with the above post. I would start with an RCBS kit, with the addition of a digital scale. Beam scales are for the birds now. I started with an RCBS starter kit and a couple yaers later got a Dillon progressive. Can't say enough about the quality of those two companies products. I still load all of my rifle rounds, and .45 Colts on the single stage RCBS. They are slower, but much better for the novice. I would say with all gear in place it takes me about 1.5 hours to do 100 rounds of .45 Colt with the single stage. I'm very methodical, and check powder levels on each and every case before the bullet gets seated.
> 
> I will say that I enjoy that handloading aspect of the sport as much as I do the shooting. Good luck.
> 
> midnightson


If you think you might be a reloader on a permanent basis I suggest you buy a RCBS chargemaster. I have had one for a couple of years and it takes the time consuming part out of reloading. As others have said be careful and allways refer to a good manual.


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

Some good advice, start out with a good SS loader. I have been loading for more then 45 yr. Started out with Rcbs ss. Best way to learn the basic of loading.Also get a good beam type of scale to check a elec. scale if you use one. It want take but one double charge to mass up your day. Also get some one that has been loading for awhile to help you learn. I have not bought factory ammo in a long time.I,m now using a dillon 1050 super and dillon dies. I will help you learn if you get in touch with me I live in north part of santa rose. jj


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for all the good info guys. Glassplus, I just might take you up on your offer. It would be nice to have somebody experienced to show my son the ropes the first time. I'll let you know. Thanks.


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

If You would like, gave me a call this is my cell ph#572-6611. I just retired in May. I have a place to shoot in my field, when I test loads.jj


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## shootnstarz (May 4, 2011)

glassplus said:


> If You would like, gave me a call this is my cell ph#572-6611. I just retired in May. I have a place to shoot in my field, when I test loads.jj


 
Yea, I'll vouch for old Jerome knowing which end of the barrel the bullet comes out. Been a while since I visited but he has a beautiful place up there.

Rick


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

My son and I were just making a list of equipment needed and pricing components. I was surprised how much the components are, particularly the bullets. I hear people saying that they are reloading for a couple of cents per round. From what I've found, it looks like they are being extremely optimistic.
We were looking at FMJ bullets at Midway that were $50 for 500. Heck, that's a dime each. Then there's the primers, powder and brass. If it ends up costing me $14 or $15 to reload a box of 100 9mm and I can buy 'em at WalMart for $21, doesn't seem like enough savings to justify $300 in equipment and the time needed to reload. 
Am I missing something here ?


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

welldoya said:


> My son and I were just making a list of equipment needed and pricing components. I was surprised how much the components are, particularly the bullets. I hear people saying that they are reloading for a couple of cents per round. From what I've found, it looks like they are being extremely optimistic.
> We were looking at FMJ bullets at Midway that were $50 for 500. Heck, that's a dime each. Then there's the primers, powder and brass. If it ends up costing me $14 or $15 to reload a box of 100 9mm and I can buy 'em at WalMart for $21, doesn't seem like enough savings to justify $300 in equipment and the time needed to reload.
> Am I missing something here ?


http://www.berrysmfg.com/
You have to use plated bullets ..buy by the 1000ct ....in order to get the savings you are looking for. You COULD go as far as using plain LEAD (no jacket) ...but that isn't good for modern barrels....gums them up with lead.
Berrys makes some good stuff, for anything under 1200 feet per second they will be perfect ......the just came out with a line of double plated bullets as well that will work in magnum loads with higher speeds.

In order to actually SAVE money over buying walmart crap, you will have to press several thousand rounds, just to break even on the gear........This is the problem I have with the higher priced presses....you will probably NEVER recoup your investment.....you should just consider it an investment in quality and a part of your hobby that you can do when it is too nasty to go to the range.

Oh yea.....9mm isn't going to be your big money saving round......that will be .380,.45, or one of the other more expensive rounds. I do press 9mm, but I do a LOT at a time, and berrys has 9mm hollow points....so you can get hollow points at less than walmart fmj white box prices.....for what its worth.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. That's a little better. So, I'm guessing the plated is not as good as the jacketed ?
I'm not giving up on this venture but I've got to admit, I'm a little disappointed. I've been listening to blowhards talking about reloading for 5 cents per round and not knowing any better, I actually believed them.


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

Your not really going to save any money; you'll just shoot more.


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## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

Thought most reloaded to get better accuracy ? I will be buying the starter set this spring just to get the to build different loads up to see which shoots well in my rifles.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

If you want to shoot cowboy style , and you pour your own bullets you MIGHT me able to reload for 5 cents a round, but probably not.
Plated bullets are more than good enough for handgun target shooting......only when you want specialty ....xtp,self defense, or high speed (magnum) handgun rounds will you need true fmj.
The speeds that a rife will produce (above 1100 feet per second) ....usually much higher....would strip the coating off of a plated bullet. For Rifle you will only be loading one at a time, and you might press a few hundred rounds for hunting purposes....but they are $1 a round instead of $2+ and you are in control of quality ,ect.
If you are going to practice defensive or target shooting with your .45 ....you WILL be able to afford to put a couple hundred rounds down range and will spend about $28 instead of $80. The same goes for .380 which can be sporatic to find, and near the price of .45! With this type of use, there is NO difference between plated and fmj.
I have used a LOT of Berrys plated bullets ....never a jacket separation......even when pushed to 1200 fps in my keltec sub2k 9mm.


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

If you really went to get started , give a call and set up a time , and I will let you and your son come and try on my equ.Will try and show you how not end up with a box of stuff that you can,t use like I have setting around. there is alot of good used equ. out there if you start looking. I go in with different people to but supply,s to help cut cost.I load 223 rd. for about 3.50/20. ARE get some one who knows what they are doing help you. Quit talking and start learning. I even have some setting around. You will have to also have look it as long term investment. Reloading also could be great way for you and your son To get closer by learning some thing new together.on a rain day jj


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

I will take you up on your offer. It would be great to have somebody experienced show us the ropes. Might be February though before we can get together with you. Only 3 weeks left in Alabama's hunting season.
Thanks a lot. I will contact you. I believe you said you are in the north end of the county. Jay ?


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## shootnstarz (May 4, 2011)

I checked around on the prices of equipment and WOW, have the prices gone way up!

I feel for anybody getting into the hobby nowadays, but that's what the old timers told me when I started a shooting hobby 25 years ago. I was told back then to "buy it cheap and stack it deep" and I believe that's still true today, just a lot more expensive.

Stockpiling components and reloading is definately that way to go if you intend to keep shooting for years to come. Once you get going reloading you'll soon find out what you need for your shooting disipline and interest. Accuracy shooters mostly use SS presses. Folks that shoot a lot of pistols might be better served with a progressive once they learn the ropes. It will all come with research and experience.

I too will offer my services to teach on a SS press if you can't make it to Jerome's place, but he has 3 times the experience of me. But in 15 years I've never had a FTF or a squib. It's all about paying attention to what you're doing.

Rick


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## Ardiemus (Oct 12, 2010)

I can't believe that no body hasn't recommended Dillion.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/23803/catid/1/XL_650

Either the Square Deal, 550, or 650 would be a good fit. A no BullSh!t warranty is a trademark of theirs. If anything breaks, new or used....send it in and they will replace.

-Jonathan


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## shootnstarz (May 4, 2011)

Dillon is fine equipment and a great company to deal with. But I believe shelling out that much $$$ for a beginner could be a bit much, especially if they're not sure which direction to go. I once had a Dillon 650 but since I reload for accuracy the press wasn't much use.

IMHO a beginner needs to start with a quality SS press to learn the process of turning out a loaded round. Once the beginner learns everything that needs to be done and it what order they can then decide on whether to get a progressive press.

And with a SS kit he'll get a good deal of the tools he'll need for reloading no matter what kind of press he eventually gets. You get none of these tools with a Dillon press.

Besides the press and dies a reloader needs:

1. A brass tumbler and cleaning media
2. A beam or digital charge weighing scale
3. A good set of accurate calipers
4. A method of trimming & deburring rifle cases
5. Primer pocket cleaner/uniformer (optional but highly recommended)
6. A method for priming cases (should be in a kit)
7. Case loading trays 
8. A process to lube bottlenecked cases
9. Powder trickler (also optional but needed)
10. A good reloading manual
11. Powder throw (beats using the measuring spoons)
12. A good, sturdy workbench to mount the press

If I forgot anything somebody step in.

Here's my process for loading rifle cases:

1.Tumble clean the fired cases
2. Lube the case below the shoulder and inside the mouth
3. Size and decap the case (Lee dies)
4. Trim case to lenght, I use a RCBS Trim Pro
5. Deburr the trimmed case inside and out, RCBS Trim Mate
6. Clean primer pocket, uniform/deburr flashhole
7. Tumble clean the processed brass again to remove lube and filings
8. Pick tumbling media out of flashholes
9. Prime cases, I prefer hand priming
10. Set powder throw to throw correct weight charge.
11. Check throw on scale, trickle to bring up to proper weight
12. Charge case 
13. Check all charged cases with flashlight
14. Set bullet seating die to proper depth.
15. Seat bullets to correct OAL
16. Adjust crimp die, crimp all rounds if needed.
17. Tumble finished round about 5 minutes if going in storage, handle with gloved hands.

Personally I use Lee dies because that's what I started with. Other makers use a little different process with theirs. I tumble with corn cob media and Midway USA brass polish and have had excellent results. I use a Lee hand primer, doesn't last a long time but cheap enough to replace. The RCBS Trim Mate is a big help for deburring and cleaning primer pockets, would hate to be without it. I also have case gauges for all the popular rounds, just as a quick check before putting them in their boxes.

No, I didn't start with all that stuff but over the years I decided what I really needed for the loading I was doing. My first kit was a Lee, I returned it immediately upon inspection and got the RCBS Rock Chucker kit and am still using it today with numerous add ons.

If you go for the quality equipment you'll always have it and it will hold resale value if you ever get out of the hobby. The stuff is so well made it will last for generations.

Rick


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Rick is correct. From what I've heard, Dillon is top-notch but expensive and I don't want to put out the big bucks until we have some experience and make sure we want to continue doing it.
So, did you return the Lee because you felt it was poor quality ?


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## Flounder Hounder (Nov 9, 2008)

I can't believe that no body hasn't recommended Dillion.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/conte...catid/1/XL_650

Either the Square Deal, 550, or 650 would be a good fit. A no BullSh!t warranty is a trademark of theirs. If anything breaks, new or used....send it in and they will replace.

X2
I really like my Dillon


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Just wanted to say that all the above equipment is great for RIFLE reloading but will do you very little good for progressive handgun loading. 
As for my Lee Loadmaster progressive, I have pressed over 5K rounds this year with no breakages....when I DO break something it will be cheap to fix.....so the value for pressing bulk hangun rounds is good. Lee also includes some features that others omit or charge extra for ....like automatic shell feed. and the option of automatic bullet feeding. Just the omition of the shell feed alone would double the time it would take to press each and every round. If you take away the auto measure powder/expanding die you loose more time....and so on. I know there are better (cast iron) presses out there, but since producing inexpensive rounds quickly was the goal (with quality equal or better to factory rounds)....then Lee was the obvious choice. I Did press my first rounds on a single press, but after 1k you will be shopping for a progressive. Unfortunatly, only the scales, caliper, and bullet puller will transfer over the the progressive side of things.
As far as tumbling brass, trimming cases, and cleaning primer pockets.....this just does not happen for bulk handgun rounds.....you collect cases that have been fired once.....sort them and dump out the sand....then in the hopper they go and get pressed into new rounds. If the cases need to be cleaned , you don't want them. This is the quick and dirty way to reload, but still produces quality rounds that you can go and practice with all day long.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Flounder Hounder said:


> I can't believe that no body hasn't recommended Dillion.
> http://www.dillonprecision.com/conte...catid/1/XL_650
> 
> Either the Square Deal, 550, or 650 would be a good fit. A no BullSh!t warranty is a trademark of theirs. If anything breaks, new or used....send it in and they will replace.
> ...


 That is a nice looking press, but to really get the speed out of it you have to buy the motorized shell feeder ......$$$$$$ otherwise you are stuck feeding them down a tube a few at a time....or worse one at a time.


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## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

This has been a great thread, I had planned on picking up the rcbs kit this week at basspro. It's.nice to see everyone's opinions. I will solely be using it to work up my rifle loads.


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*leading*



Firefishvideo said:


> http://www.berrysmfg.com/
> You have to use plated bullets ..buy by the 1000ct ....in order to get the savings you are looking for. You COULD go as far as using plain LEAD (no jacket) ...but that isn't good for modern barrels....gums them up with lead.
> Berrys makes some good stuff, for anything under 1200 feet per second they will be perfect ......the just came out with a line of double plated bullets as well that will work in magnum loads with higher speeds.
> 
> ...


leading has never been a problem for me. There are cleaning solutions that if used often will remove lead. I use lead for punching paper...reduced loads compared to personal protection rounds.


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## bobinbusan (Feb 16, 2010)

Need to keep the eyeballs shopping the locate press, thrifty nickle/craigs list, ebay, u can pick up some good buys if u read it @ the right time, had a friend looking into getting into the reloading and saw a add in the thrifty nickle on 3 Dillion Square deal for $250.00 set up readly to got go and he is liking it just fine.
Just keep looking and you may run into a deal
bib :whistling::whistling::whistling:


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