# Targeting Mangrove Snapper



## Harbison

Targeting Mangrove Snapper
Out target for today, the elusive mangrove snapper is, in warmer regions, one of the most common species of snapper. This fish we sometimes call simply mango is highly sought after because of its excellent flavor and the challenge of catching the little bait thief. They love to eat and run without paying for their meal. Mangos can reach a length of 35 inches, but most do not exceed 16 inches. The greatest recorded weight for this species is 44 pounds. Mangrove snapper are very plentiful and can be found from canals, to grass flats, to open water.
My mangrove snapper fishing career began in the early fifties. Our boat of choice was hand made in Tampa by the Drury Boat Company. It looked exactly like this:

The motor was 2 HP and gave us a cruising speed of around five MPH. That was fast back then. We fished marker buoys 1/2 mile off Port Tampa; that, for us, was way off shore. I am a native Floridian who grew up chasing mangrove snapper all over Tampa Bay. In the early seventies I first heard about this almost mystical place called the Florida Middle Grounds. Fishing was said to be absolutely spectacular. I had to try it. But how? We are talking 100+ miles off Madeira Beach. Salty Sol Flashman had a daily fishing show on channel 13. One day he mentioned a local head boat that traveled to the Middle Grounds on a regular basis. I had to see for myself. I drove to the Marina and then, for the first time, I saw the man himself, Captain Wilson Hubbard. I knew many of the best Captains of the day on a first name basis. However, somehow this man stood out from all the rest. It was very easy to see that he had a true passion for our great sport:

Captain Wilson insisted on showing me every inch of his pride and joy, the Florida Fisherman l:

This man among men would take pride in personally guiding us to the way off Florida Middle Grounds. Then, as now, we would often be 
'Targeting mangrove Snapper.' Even after all these years the elusive mango is still targeted. Captain Wilson's son, Captain Mark, remains every bit as involved as did his dad. As we board the much newer Florida Fisherman ll, we cannot help but remember the old 90' long Florida Fisherman l. Rest in peace old girl; you have earned your retirement.
Ok! it's time to go. Come along as we challenge the mangrove snapper in his 125' deep home we call the Florida Middle Grounds:

Fishing with us today is Mr. Randy Carpenter from Jacksonville, Florida. Randy will be fishing out of spot number 5:

Chef Tammy welcomes Randy:

Mr. Carpenter has never fished in the Gulf of Mexico. Can he catch our fish? Only time will tell. Randy is serious. Four dozen lively pin fish should do the trick:

Every time we leave I ask myself do I prefer leaving, or coming back? Wait until you see what the John's Pass Bridge looks like early Sunday morning. Compare it to this then tell us what you think:

Our man from Jacksonville listens to every word Will says; we all do:

It's always an honor to have the ladies accompany us. Ms. Katie Barretto:

We are hungry. Tammy, what's for dinner? How does a real Cuban sandwich and black beans over rice sound? Need you ask?


----------



## Harbison

*Part 2*

After a good nights sleep, it's mango time. Let's put all that energy to work:

Roger, now that's a nice one. Mark, filling in for Kyle, is doing an excellent job. Kyle was in a automobile accident. Please join me in saying a prayer for him.

The mangos are on fire:

Nice early morning start:

Sun up! Now that looks nasty:


Mr. William Trippett, a real expert:

Can someone who has never fished the Gulf of Mexico catch the elusive mangrove snapper? You had better believe it:

Mr. Carpenter caught his two day limit of 20 before 8 A.M.

But can he catch the big, tough, fish? Well! How about two AJ's?


How about a burger? Now hold on! Tammy burgers may be great, but don't you think you could at least leave us the plate?

The snapper bite remains hot:

Rich, Will, and many others had no problem in catching their two day federal limit of twenty mangrove snapper Look at the size of those beauties:

This is turning into a major mangrove snapper catch:

Our 'Targeting Mangrove Snapper' has resulted in well over 450 Florida Middle Grounds sized snapper. It's time to say good-by for now. Thank you Captain Bryon for a wonderful trip. Let's hit the showers; eat our steak dinner, and say hello to our bunks. We are tired. I mean really tired.
Will & Mark have our catch well iced for the long ride home:

Ok! Decision time. Is leaving or coming back preferred? We saw John's Pass Bridge at 3 P.M. Friday afternoon. Take a look at 6 A.M. Sunday morning:

Both are beautiful. What do you think?
Ms. Katie Barretto & Mr. Randy Carpenter are all smiles:


Now that's a nice string:

It's always an honor to have our Northern friends join us. Mr. Jim Atkinson, & Mr. Junior McMahan drove for 19 solid hours to fish the Florida Middle Grounds. Was the 1,100 mile trip from Missouri worth the ride? Jim, "Fishing was great:" Junior, "Super trip!" But can they catch our Southern fish? Well! Mr. McMahan took home $420.00 jack pot money with an 8.7 pound mangrove snapper. Those who caught grouper were not entered in the jack pot.


Many of us who fish also hunt. With the approach of cooler weather, opportunities like this often come to mind. Tiger Island here we come:

Bob Harbison Florida Outdoor Writers Association


----------



## startzc

Am I mistaken in my interpretation of the law??? A daily bag limit is a daily bag limit, just because you go out for two days does not mean you can catch 10 fish on the second day and call it good? At least that is not how any wildlife officer I have ever encountered sees it. So if your patrons slept and then caught a 2 day limit before 8am you just broadcasted them breaking the law...with their names and photographic evidence.


----------



## lastcast

That's a bunch of Mangrove Snapper. Good trip and great write up as always! Keep em coming!


----------



## jack2

just goes to show you that these charter boats are really on top of their game. they just hope that the rules are in their favor (which it always is), and that there will be another FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY MANGROVE SNAPPER out there when they return with another boat load of clients.

jack


----------



## Harbison

Customers on charter boats & head boats can legally keep a two day possession limit if they meet certain requirements, namely:
1. Possess a ticket proving the trip lasted over 24 hours.
2. There must be ample bunk arrangements
3. There must be at least two licensed captains 
Any wildlife officer who sees it differently does not know the law!
Private boats cannot legally keep over a one day possession limit regardless of the length of the trip. 
The state waters possession limit of mangrove snapper is 5; federal waters 10. Two day possession limit 20 (if you meet the requirements). 
The Florida Middle Grounds is a huge 461 square mile tropical wonderland. Fishing pressure is minimal. Often we do not see another boat the entire trip. 450 mangrove snapper (by 33 people) is not even a drop in the bucket. 
"there will be another FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY MANGROVE SNAPPER out there when they return with another boat load of clients."
And there will be many more after that.


----------



## jack2

Harbison said:


> Customers on charter boats & head boats can legally keep a two day possession limit if they meet certain requirements, namely:
> 1. Possess a ticket proving the trip lasted over 24 hours.
> 2. There must be ample bunk arrangements
> 3. There must be at least two licensed captains
> Any wildlife officer who sees it differently does not know the law!
> Private boats cannot legally keep over a one day possession limit regardless of the length of the trip.
> The state waters possession limit of mangrove snapper is 5; federal waters 10. Two day possession limit 20 (if you meet the requirements).
> The Florida Middle Grounds is a huge 461 square mile tropical wonderland. Fishing pressure is minimal. Often we do not see another boat the entire trip. 450 mangrove snapper (by 33 people) is not even a drop in the bucket.
> "there will be another FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY MANGROVE SNAPPER out there when they return with another boat load of clients."
> And there will be many more after that.



suck it till it's dry. one day you'll see.

jack


----------



## Harbison

*You have got to be kidding!*

:no: "suck it till it's dry. one day you'll see."
With EDF's NOAA in charge...you have got to be kidding!


----------



## old school

*limit*

Please go hug a tree and leave a few fisherman that like to keep some fish to eat alone. I gest you this RS are indangered!


----------



## Harbison

*There is one in every group!*

There is one in every group!
Mr. school, thank you sir. Looks like there is one in every group. As a rule they are either PETA of members of the EDF. These fanatics, and those like them, have absolutely NO understanding of 'the real world' or the issues involved. All they see is their own little 'special interest' idealistic environment. 
The anglers in this report fished for 20 hours 100 miles off shore; they averaged 14.5 snapper each. They worked for what they caught. 
Catch & release...NO way! They fought for, and deserve, their dinner. 
Mangrove snapper are one of our most prolific species; they can be found in rivers, bays, near shore, and waters up to around 180'. 
"suck it till it's dry. (sic) one day you'll see" Proves a complete lack of understanding of, 'the real world!' But then again, 'there is one in every group!' :thumbdown:


----------



## jcasey

Great Report as always Mr. Bob. If someone is paying for a 2 day trip and they can keep a 2 day limit, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.


----------



## jack2

we'll just leave this argument to the next generation. i'm too old to argue.

jack


----------



## Harbison

"nothing wrong with that in my opinion." Or anyone in touch with 'the real world!'
"we'll just leave this argument" There is no argument! Just a difference of opinion from someone who does not understand 'the real world!'


----------



## startzc

Honestly I just didnt know the law, if it is legal so be it. I think it is BS that I can't do the same on my boat but that is an issue to bring up with my representatives. Now, if you think it is being a tree hugger that we are pissed that you can go out and keep all the fish you want while we get fucked as recreational, personal owners then you can kiss my ass. I don't know if your boat is one of the bastards that are in line with the commercial fisherman that made it so I can't keep fish to feed my family unless I buy it from Joe patti or pay for a ride on a head-boat. No law should put selling fish above feeding your family.


----------



## Loruna

startzc said:


> Honestly I just didnt know the law, if it is legal so be it. I think it is BS that I can't do the same on my boat but that is an issue to bring up with my representatives. Now, if you think it is being a tree hugger that we are pissed that you can go out and keep all the fish you want while we get fucked as recreational, personal owners then you can kiss my ass. I don't know if your boat is one of the bastards that are in line with the commercial fisherman that made it so I can't keep fish to feed my family unless I buy it from Joe patti or pay for a ride on a head-boat. No law should put selling fish above feeding your family.



Learn how to catch Flounder or Mullet if you have to fish to feed your family.
50 bag day limit for Mullet or 10 bag for Flounder and your family will be eating like kings.


----------



## startzc

Not the point, if I go offshore and the only fish I can find are ARS as an individual angler I can't keep one to eat but I can go to a fish market and pay out the butt for it. That is BS and there is no arguing about it.


----------



## lastcast

startzc said:


> Honestly I just didnt know the law, if it is legal so be it. I think it is BS that I can't do the same on my boat but that is an issue to bring up with my representatives. Now, if you think it is being a tree hugger that we are pissed that you can go out and keep all the fish you want while we get fucked as recreational, personal owners then you can kiss my ass. I don't know if your boat is one of the bastards that are in line with the commercial fisherman that made it so I can't keep fish to feed my family unless I buy it from Joe patti or pay for a ride on a head-boat. No law should put selling fish above feeding your family.


Wow! So you chastise a writer and fisherman for you not knowing the law. Then base your justification (ignorance) on a boat paying for two Capt's for a two day trip against a rec boat making an overnight trip. I hope it was the beer talking and not reality. Your post sucked! Sorry Bob, looks like another fun trip! Please keep writing and posting!:notworthy:

PS, I'm a rec fisher too.


----------



## jack2

since harbison has personally attacked my comments, i have no choice to reply. i said i will not argue and that is it. this is my last post concerning this matter. read and you make the choice. all of you have plenty of good common sense. recreational fisherpeople are always thrown under the bus.


google "tripadvisor.com florida fisherman II".

jack


----------



## lastcast

jack2 said:


> since harbison has personally attacked my comments, i have no choice to reply. i said i will not argue and that is it. this is my last post concerning this matter. read and you make the choice. all of you have plenty of good common sense. recreational fisherpeople are always thrown under the bus.
> 
> 
> google "tripadvisor.com florida fisherman II".
> 
> jack


Grow up and let a good fishing thread alone.


----------



## Reel Justice

Harbison,

I'm just asking, you said that you have to prove the trip was over 24hrs, then you said this trip the fished 20hrs.


----------



## Harbison

*A good fishing thread*

"let a good fishing thread alone" Thank you sir. That's the way fishing reports should be. The real sportsmen/women of Pensacola, and everywhere else, know & respect 'a good fishing thread.' After all, this is a 'fishing forum;' not a 'chat room.' 
"I can't do the same on my boat" Do you have bunks & two licensed Captains? Do you have a stub proving that you were out for over 24 hours? We do! These are questions "my (your) representatives will ask. 
"Keep all the fish you want" All possession, season, and size regulations are strictly followed. 
Keeping the American red snapper: The commercial sector, in part, was behind the recent 9 day ARS season. If you look deeper you will find EDF's NOAA was also involved. All recreational fisherman, including charter & head boats, other than those who sold out the recreational sector by joining the 'head boat collaborative program,' lost really big time on this one. The commercial fisherman lost nothing. Their IFQ's were not touched. 
"feed my family" If feeding the family is the reason for fishing the fisherman would be much better off to "buy it from Joe." Ever stop to think how much the fish one catches actually cost? Much cheaper to visit Joe patti. 
Mr. Justice, very good point sir. I should have stated that differently. The trip was from 3 P.M. Friday afternoon until 6 A.M. Sunday morning. Our tickets state 39 hours. The 20 hours was actual fishing time; the rest was travel. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Bob


----------



## Reel Justice

I want to go. Can you send me some more information.


----------



## Harbison

Here is the Hubbard's web address:
http://www.hubbardsmarina.com/
Personally I have nothing to do with Hubbard's. I just know a good thing when I see it. I have been sailing with them for over 40 years. I know the operation. 
If I can be of any help please do not hesitate to let me know.
email [email protected]


----------



## ThaFish

jack2 said:


> since harbison has personally attacked my comments


Keep it up with the pity party.


----------



## Captdroot

*Trip limits*

I have fished offshore since 1970. In the Atlantic and the Gulf. Have fished under recreational rules, commercial harvesting rules, and license Capt rules/regs. Have also worked ashore as an electrician and HS teacher.

_I don't want to hear from someone who *thinks* they know today's "Current Regs"._ Two day recreational bag limits have been around for 20+years. As a young man in my 20s, I learned how to fish on some of those "two day headboats" many years ago. I have also fished on my own small recreational boat using the rules/regs for two day recreational limits.

Today, can a private boat owner, follow the rules/regs and possess a two day limit upon their return? That was possible in 2006. I know, I did it, it required some rules/regs. The boat had bunks for three and we had to file a float plan with the USCG or a local marina.

Please, don't reply to this question unless you are certain of the current laws/regs/rules/etc.

Now on another topic: "On Conservation", just how long are going to preserve/regulate the ever growing predator population?


----------



## Harbison

*All other trips!*

:no:

 


Two-Day Bag Limit Persons on qualified charter vessels or headboats with two captains for trips in excess
of 24 hours may possess a 2-day bag limit of reef fish, king mackerel, and Spanish
mackerel. One-day bag limits apply to all other species and trips, regardless of length.
All other trips! PERIOD!


----------



## Captdroot

*Peee Uuuuu*

That just stinks. So much for what was fair since the beginning of time until 06, 07, 08, 09, or whenever!!! and now, it's *NOT fair today??* Rules and regs are made for two reasons only: Control and Money

AGAIN, THAT STINKS!!


----------



## Harbison

*That just stinks*

:wallbash: "Rules and regs are made for two reasons only: Control and Money"
EDF's NOAA is all about 'Control and Money.' No where is that more evident that the 9 day American red snapper season. It must be remembered that a healthy fishery shows no need of NOAA's push for 'control and money' known as catch shares. As a result this 'autonomous' agency 'proves' that ARS cannot possibly exist without what is better described as paid fishing. 
I am, and have always been, a recreational fisherman. For years I owned my own boat. For me too a one day possession limit was it. 
If we could come up with a better method of accountability things like a two day limit for all would have a better chance of becoming law. Personally, I would love to see it. Charter & head boats are much easier to regulate than the private sector. The Florida Fisherman can prove a departure time of 3:00 P. M. Friday, and a return time of 6 A. M. Sunday morning. Most true sportsmen/women obey the law. Many don't, and we all pay the price. If a two day possession limit was legal for the recreational sector, every over the limit trip would be for two days. "Oh! Officer, I have been out for over two days. I am entitled to a two day possession limit." 
One possible solution could be the requirement of a VMS system for every private boat desiring a two day limit. 
That would prove the length of the trip. VMS is required on commercial fishing vassals. 
Commercial boats must have a working vessel monitoring system (VMS) functioning the duration of every trip. With this system the position, time at a position, course, speed, and days at sea are monitored. This would prove that the trip was 24 hours plus. However, the system is expensive, and "That just stinks."


----------



## LureheadEd

I just want to jump in and say "THANKS !" for the pic of the FF1... First offshore boat I ever went on when I was just a kid....My Grandma put me on it , she didn't fish....Capt. Hubbard kept me right next to him all day (twice that week !) and I learned more about fishing on that boat than anywhere else I ever fished...

And the John's Pass pics....Sure doesn't look like it did in the late '60's... I used to catch alot of sheepshead off of that one during spring break... Gma would drop me off just after daylight , come check on me at lunch, and pick me up at dinner...Do it again tomorrow...

What a great read , sorry some jellyheads have to put their 2 cents in...


----------



## Jet fishin

LureheadEd said:


> I just want to jump in and say "THANKS !" for the pic of the FF1... First offshore boat I ever went on when I was just a kid....My Grandma put me on it , she didn't fish....Capt. Hubbard kept me right next to him all day (twice that week !) and I learned more about fishing on that boat than anywhere else I ever fished...
> 
> And the John's Pass pics....Sure doesn't look like it did in the late '60's... I used to catch alot of sheepshead off of that one during spring break... Gma would drop me off just after daylight , come check on me at lunch, and pick me up at dinner...Do it again tomorrow...
> 
> What a great read , sorry some jellyheads have to put their 2 cents in...



First off welcome aboard.
Secondly great first post sir!:thumbup:

I used to hitch hike to Ft Myers beach to fish on the Capt. Debold and there other boat the Anne. 
Started doing this around 1973. I was 11 years old.
The next year, I was allowed to tag along as 2nd mate (free) for a few tips and a day on the water. 
I did this for four summers in a row.
Great memoirs!
I love reading the O.P. Reports always.
It reminds of those early days.


----------



## Harbison

*Having A blast!*

LureheadEd welcome! Please share with us your adventures. We may have fished together on the old Florida Fisherman l. I too fished many times with Captain Wilson Hubbard. What a man! 
I have been sharing what our great state, both fishing & hunting, has to offer for well over 1/2 a century. I find most on this great forum to be true sportsmen/women who enjoy 'a great read.' Never-the-less, there will always be the "jellyheads" contention. Best bet! "Grow up and let a good fishing thread alone."
Join me on the Florida; we will have a blast. I will feature you in my report. Bob


----------



## Mac1528

Do any of you "old salts" remember a JP bridge shark fisherman named Johnny Largo? He was a mentor of mine when we fished off the bridge or when we went on the Atlanta's fishing boats.


----------



## Harbison

Wish I could help you on that one, but I have never heard of the gentleman. How was shark fishing on the JP bridge?


----------



## LureheadEd

Thanks for the welcome guys ! I just found this site a couple of weeks ago and yall are amazing with all the activity here...Most of the forums I've been on the last couple of years are about dead, nobody wants to share much... I waited a while to see if the site stayed active before joining, and this one is FUN ! So much info and interaction....

I don't get out much anymore with health and finance issues, so I'll end up being more of a "Lurker" than anything else... But it surely puts a bit of sunshine in my day to get on here and see what's going on...Sometimes makes my arms ache and my stomach growls after reading the posts...And all of the daydreaming of "what ifs" about so many special places and catches, mostly along the panhandle, that I've fished in the past ...

THANKS AGAIN !!!!


----------



## Mac1528

The old bridge was great for sharks. The kingfish restaurant was on the pass side. The commercial fishing boats would unload at the docks next to the restaurant at the fish house and the scraps and carcasses went straight down into the pass. That's where the shark hole was. Was there one time when he landed one so big they had to get a wrecker over there to get it up and over to the Atlanta's to hang it in the tree. Dons dock over there had some old photos of what John's Pass used to look like before the new bridges went in. Lots of history there!


----------



## Harbison

*Thanks!*

Ed, Sir I do my best to make people feel like they are on the boat with me; I wish they were. I have been fishing Central Florida for over 60 years. I love to share. I will be leaving 10/10 for another Middle Grounds trip. Hope to have a great report with plenty of pictures. I also do hog hunting. My next hog trip will be 10/28. 
Sir, sit back, relax, and enjoy through me what our great state has to offer. It's people like you that make this forum one of the best. Please stay involved.
Mac, Sir, thank you so very much for the JP lesson. The history of our great state is so interesting. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge of yester-year. Bob


----------



## Mac1528

LureheadEd said:


> Thanks for the welcome guys ! I just found this site a couple of weeks ago and yall are amazing with all the activity here...Most of the forums I've been on the last couple of years are about dead, nobody wants to share much... I waited a while to see if the site stayed active before joining, and this one is FUN ! So much info and interaction....
> 
> I don't get out much anymore with health and finance issues, so I'll end up being more of a "Lurker" than anything else... But it surely puts a bit of sunshine in my day to get on here and see what's going on...Sometimes makes my arms ache and my stomach growls after reading the posts...And all of the daydreaming of "what ifs" about so many special places and catches, mostly along the panhandle, that I've fished in the past ...
> 
> THANKS AGAIN !!!!


Welcome up there LureheadEd! Nice to have you come along with us. Lots of good folks on here.... like Bob, so buckle up and enjoy!!


----------



## Harbison

This form is loaded with true sportsmen/women. It's an honor to be here & to lear from those who are more than willing to share their vast knowledge.


----------



## Captdroot

*Not sure if I'm the jelly head?*

Bob, you know who I am. I've suspected that we fished together on that boat back in the '70s. We know/remember too many of the same old timers! 

I'm just a "used to be young" Florida kid in the 50's & 60's. I grew up fishing, knew and enjoyed Capt Wilson Hubbard. 

I learned how to fish, bought a boat, learned how to find fish, got a captains license, went to work Chartering & working the Gulf oil boats. Try that for 25-28yrs, mixed with 11 yrs of electrical work....... and about 10yrs of teaching HS. Today I'm an old gentleman, with a worn out body. That is who I am.

About the "Two Day Trip Limit Rule": I would like to inject that with today's VHF radios, the USCG does/could easily track your location while on a 39 hr fishing trip. That simple little tool does/could allow a fisherman to call the USCG every 6-12 hours. That would verify your location offshore. A GPS track which is never turned off would also aid in "What you are up to".

In years past, you could file a float plan with the USCG (in writing) and run your two day trip with your son and grandson._* Now, that the technology has improved....... they decide to dump any kind of plan???*_ 

It stinks. I just stinks. 

Good luck to all. I'm rapidly becoming unable to fish much...... but there are others that have sons and grandsons.


----------



## Harbison

*100% in favor of a two day possession limit!*

:thumbup: Captdroot, sir I have no doubt we have crossed paths. I too am, "an old gentleman, with a worn out body. I am a Florida native who graduated from Tampa's Jesuit HS in '61. I earned my BA in Psychology from the University of Tampa. I worked with dysfunctional children & families for many years. I have never forgotten my passion to learn. I would love to know more about where & what you taught in HS. 
I have been fishing & hunting in Florida ever since the late forties. Remember the huge king fish schools of the sixties? People today cannot even imagine what we have seen. 
Sir, with the monitoring systems you have brought to our attention, anyone who is willing to cooperate should be able to keep a "Two day trip limit." Personally, I am 100% in favor of it. 
Thanks for adding so much to this post. Bob


----------



## Captdroot

Bob, yes, I do remember those vast numbers of kings along both coasts. I'm glad you are still able to enjoy the outdoors..... and still value learning. Learning should not end, until we stop breathing.

No doubt we were on that boat together '78-'81 with Red, George, & Carlton. 

Resume includes: FSU in 69-71, married, then electrical work from '73-81. That's when I met Bo J, the electrician & Hubbard's fisherman. We're about the same age. 100 ton Capt lic in 1981, used it off and on until 2006, health was simply not good for much more offshore activity. Back to school in '93?? & a UCF grad . Taught HS Math and Physics in Central and north Florida. Kept fishing until 2007, then health and regs brought about the sale of my last boat. Today, just happy to be alive & walkin, still 43yrs married to my little FSU alum! LOL Retired, living near the Al/Fl state line and always hoping to catch a ride on a calm day....... near Port Saint Joe.


----------

