# Lesser AJ vs Greater AJ



## Gator Rob (May 28, 2015)

*Court Date: Lesser AJ vs Greater AJ*

While snapper fishing last Saturday, I caught what I believed to be a legal Lesser AJ. However, when checked at the Destin Pass by FWC, he identified it as an undersized Greater AJ. I have a court date next week. Is there a defense for this? Anyone have any experience here? Should I plead guilty and pay the fine or plead ignorance and try for some mercy from the court? What kind of fine are we talking about?


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## WAReilly (Jun 2, 2014)

From what I understand, lesser AJs don't get very big, but to be sure, you have to count the gill rakers.


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## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

Odds are you will not catch a lesser AJ in this area.


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## RedLeg (Mar 15, 2014)

Caught a few almaco...never a lesser


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## WAReilly (Jun 2, 2014)

Lessers are also much smaller than greaters. You probably won't ever catch one over 20". 

Are they even worth eating?


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

There are for sure lesser here but they mainly come from deeper water.


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

Here is the difference.....

Almaco is football shape....


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

You catch a lot of Lessers around debris and sometimes near the passes. Very rarely over 18".


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Hopefully you had pictures of it. Possible the FWC misidentified it. We are all human ya'know, and we all make mistakes. But without the pic to compare it, I'd at least try and convince the judge it was an honest mistake (? maybe it was a LAJ ??), just look at your impeccable record, never been arrested, not even a traffic ticket.... (hopefully). It's always a 50/50 call on how the judge feels that day. The odds in your favor diminish greatly if the evidence shows differ than your defense. Then you need to weigh the cost of the citation, the cost of possible court cost, loss of missing work, and if you can afford the fine. You can always get extensions on paying the fine. 
Some years ago, my B-I-L caught 2 undersized black drum which he thought were porgy. Judge popped him $500 each.... that was in SRC.... so you just never know?


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## Ragon210 (Jul 11, 2013)

good luck to you in court! hopefully the judge will be in a forgiving mood


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

Best thing to do in a case like this, when in doubt---throw it out! Sorry fer your misfortune....Expect a decent fine, prob 250 or so....


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## stauty trout (Jul 19, 2012)

Jason said:


> Best thing to do in a case like this, when in doubt---throw it out! Sorry fer your misfortune....Expect a decent fine, prob 250 or so....



This... They won't let you plead ignorance... You gotta know before you go... Study up on regulations and species before you leave land and there are often very few easily identifiable characteristics for each species... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

I would at least ask for an expert to look at the fish if you believe you are correct. I have heard from many people that you don't catch lesser Amberjack here which I believe is not correct. I believe I have caught some in the past but, I don't eat them and they weren't worth the potential argument. I believe the FWC must be able to produce evidence that you guilty which would also mean that an expert could prove you innocent. If you are planning to contest it in court be certain that you take pictures and ask that the officer keep the fish to be produced as evidence in court. Otherwise its your word against theirs. Good luck.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

You could make a fish id chart in mixed order, have the officer to identify each. If he makes a mistake, then your defense is he must have made that same mistake identifying your fish. Then ask for it to be dismissed. Ask to see his training certificates related to this. If he fails to bring it, ask for a dismissal. The same applies for a speeding ticket. If they do not bring the radar certification and show it in court when asked, it will be dismissed. g/l


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## ANGELEYES (Oct 9, 2014)

Wow your screwed..its all about the money...


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## 153 Large fish (Nov 30, 2013)

Ask for a jury by trial...lol...i guarantee that 12 folks would agree its dang hard to tell the difference


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## Catchin Hell (Oct 9, 2007)

Don't get me wrong, but isn't it up to the government to prove their case. With that said, was the fish confiscated as evidence and/or pictures taken. If so, aren't you (or your attorney) allowed to review the evidence against you. I may be naive as I've never been in that situation, but I would be finding out. If you can confirm the identity, go in the direction the evidence points. If there is no evidence, I would think the government would have to drop the case against you. JMHO I'm sure someone at FWC will be willing to help you out. Good luck...


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## capt'n slim (Feb 8, 2008)

Good luck. I have seen this happen before, this is how it went.

Judge came in to the courtroom, before anyone else got to speak he looked directly at the defendant and said, Sir, I do not fish, I dont know the difference between fish A or fish B nor do i care. Unless you have brought a biologist or had a biologist on board, or are biologist yourself that has examined the fish i have no other option than to side with the officer its his job not mine. The defendant never even got to speak.

I'm sure your fish was confiscated, they took a picture of it and tossed it overboard. You have no fish, no proof, no biologist. Your screwed, pay the fine before they tack on court cost.


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## ANGELEYES (Oct 9, 2014)

You are 100 percent right capt slim.. Pay the fine because if you waste court time you will also have to donate money to a wildlife foundation and wind up on probation with a conviction.. The last thing you want to do is waste a judges time!!!!


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## axman (May 11, 2011)

Learn some Spanish before court date and play the role he will throw it out just don't speak a word of English and you will be fine matter of fact you could have been snapper fishing all year and never been cited you would have more rights than a gopher tortoise.


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

Went on vacation in Galveston one year. Caught a bull red had all the proper tags... Just did not tag it. Got checked at the marina and was issued a citation. Couldn't stay in town for hearing before a JP, wrote him a letter pleaded nolo-contenda (sp) and threw myself on the mercy of the court. He wrote back with a fine of $150.00 and would dismiss the charge. Did not want a record report against my CHL. Paid it! Thanks judge.


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## Starlifter (Feb 24, 2011)

Do you have a picture of the actual fish in question? Because another thing to note is the fish's snout to eye distance. As noted in the diagram below that was found on PFF searching Google Images.

The Lesser Amberjack will have this distance about equal to the diameter of its eye (line from eye to snout drawn parallel with fish).

The Greater Amberjack will have this distance be around 1-1/2 to 2 times the diameter of its eye (line from eye to snout drawn parallel with fish).


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

You already have a court date, fight it and please post the results.


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## 153 Large fish (Nov 30, 2013)

Its not worth keeping anything in question during snapper season...because there's a real good chance of getting stopped by the man


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

If you want to keep all of the short AJs you want, book a trip on any party boat out of Destin. You wont believe the number of 20-29" lesser AJ or "aberines" as they call them that those boats bring in and no one bats an eye. Im going to go out on a limb and say most are undersized Greaters.


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## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

If there's any question always count the gill rakers. Its one of the only definitive ways. By the way, I've heard the term "Amberine" used before around Destin, what a joke...


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## SHO-NUFF (May 30, 2011)

Neither one is worth a Shit to eat.. Throw them all back.:thumbdown:


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

SHO-NUFF said:


> Neither one is worth a Shit to eat.. Throw them all back.:thumbdown:


Holy cow....you gotta be kidding me!!! Blackened AJ is FINE FINE FINE!!! You must be from up north.....I got a cousin and uncle who fish the east coast and they said everyone up there considers the AJ a trash fish.....??? Crazy!


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

How does the chain of custody work for the FWC? If they suspect you of having an issue with a fish, do they seize the fish as evidence and freeze it incase you want a court trail. Do they take pictures and then throw the fish back, basically getting rid of the evidence?
What did they do with the original fish in this instance?

Seems to me if you want a court trail and the fwc cant produce the evidence, its his word against yours.
Agreed it probably just as easy to pay....which is what they want you to do anyway.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

The judge will tell you like folks on here have told me......if your not 100%, then it goes back in the water. 
You'll have to pay the fine on this one. They will tell you to learn your fish. If it's not 30 at the fork, it goes back in the water, because now days I can't afford the fee to guess. 
Might be a costly mistake. 

How much is the fine?


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## Inn Deep (Oct 3, 2007)

There are no set fines for this. Anytime you are caught with illegal fish you see the judge and he/she decides.


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

Hard to believe that the fish would not be available to be produced as evidence. If not what is the purpose of a court date? I have had to explain why a Lane Snapper and a Mingo Snapper was not a Red Snapper to an officer before so they are not correct all of the time.


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## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

Do you have a picture of the fish? I'd love to see it whether you were wrong or right. Frankly, I don't keep any AJ under 30" no matter what fish I think it is just so there is never an issue. Too hard to tell the difference and risk it with FWC.


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