# Strikelines



## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

I haven't been on the forum much for the past couple weeks. I tried to send Travis @ Strikelines Charts (foxtrotuniform) a PM but it doesn't present me with that option. I checked and I can send PM's to everyone else fine. Did I miss something? Was he banned?


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## wallace1 (Dec 8, 2010)

Ya there was a thread earlier today where he posted on a new account asking why he got banned and that was deleted as well


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

Must have done something reeeeaaal bad. Sold the coordinates to someone's honey hole? 

I guess we'll find out eventually.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

Gotcha. I figured I'd missed something. Must of have been bad; which is odd, Travis always seemed like a down to earth helpful guy. Might have been something to do with his business and not being a sponsor or whatever maybe. Either way, maybe he'll get to come back.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

I like to know why


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

I text him and turned him on to the GCFC maybe he will find it better over there with not quite so much BS


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

CCC said:


> I text him and turned him on to the GCFC maybe he will find it better over there with not quite so much BS


He would quadruple the daily post count over there with 1 thread.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

So is the reason a secret?


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Even he does not know, and it seems the powers that be are not telling either.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

Sure whatever the decision was it was made for a legit reason and not just cause you think the mods are assholes....that's just me and for once I didn't do it.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

I'm sure it was legit. It would be nice to hear a reason since Travis seemed to be a constructive contributor to the forum. Hell, he gave away thousands of dollars of Charts and reefs on here and always seemed to be willing to help other members. That's why I realized he was gone; I was gonna PM him for help on my bottom machine. I know it's a privately owned forum and the owners and their employees can do whatever they please. It'd just be nice to hear why legitimate members are given the boot without warning.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Splittine said:


> the mods are assholes.....


Wait WHAT...?

Jim

See what I did there?


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

This is not cool. Travis is a hell of a guy! If anyone wants his email address, pm me.


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

He has helped me out:

Travis Griggs
StrikeLinesCharts.com
901-389-7954


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

I just spoke to him via email. He received no explanation whatsoever. Just kicked the hell out. Real classy guys....

It isn't like he was giving numbers to the masses. Every single site he sold or gave away, he deleted from his own records so as that person is the ONLY person who got the numbers. If he was banned for handing out spots some high and mighty charter captain "owns", what's it gonna hurt if ONE other person knows that spot.

At $190 per site, it ain't like the majority of his customers are sharing their numbers. Come on guys. This was a horrible move. There's a TON of fishing holes out there and someone finally figured out how to help us find them.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

Piss poor


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

Yakavelli said:


> I just spoke to him via email. He received no explanation whatsoever. Just kicked the hell out. Real classy guys....
> 
> It isn't like he was giving numbers to the masses. Every single site he sold or gave away, he deleted from his own records so as that person is the ONLY person who got the numbers. If he was banned for handing out spots some high and mighty charter captain "owns", what's it gonna hurt if ONE other person knows that spot.
> 
> At $190 per site, it ain't like the majority of his customers are sharing their numbers. Come on guys. This was a horrible move. There's a TON of fishing holes out there and someone finally figured out how to help us find them.


I'm guessing I know which mod did the banning, he's pretty much a sour puss. The least they can do is give a reason b/c just being silent about it makes everyone think that there is most likely no good reason. If it's b/c they say he was running a business off of here w/out being a sponsor - well, how many warnings did they give him? Surely Travis would know if that were the case?

This place has gone down the crapper ever since the Canadians took over anyways...


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## RedLeg (Mar 15, 2014)

Travis has always been very helpful to me too...I won a set of numbers off one of his giveaways and caught the biggest red snapper I've ever caught in my life!:thumbup:


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

Sororities do shit like this. 
Sad to admit but true


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## PHARMER (Apr 13, 2012)

One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Crappy move.


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## servo765 (May 25, 2013)

I suppose Ocean Master and Outcast are going to be banned next if it is about advertising without sponsoring. Which it's probably not...


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Splittine said:


> Sure whatever the decision was it was made for a legit reason and not just cause you think the mods are assholes....that's just me and for once I didn't do it.


Can we please here the legit reason? A lot of us liked the guy. He contributed quite a bit to the people of this forum and according to him, he wasn't even given an explanation. Somebody please clear this up for those of us who aren't thinking very highly of our favorite online place anymore...


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

I'll give you some food for thaught. Maybe it's because what he was doing was hurting people that put a lot of time and money into building and deploying reefs. Did I like what he was doing? NO I didn't, BUT did I have anything to do with banning him? NO I didn't never said a word to anyone but FU. (Foxtrouuniform).


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## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd like to hear the reason as well. Travis posted sidescan imagery for all of us to use of the 3MB, of the pass, and even gave away a bunch of free numbers. He has helped a bunch of us with GPS issues, spoken on our behalf at FWC conferences, and was always a friendly and constructive member of the forum. While many of us argued about the sale of reefs, he stayed friendly and helpful. What's going on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Here's some food for thought. He put a lot of time and money into finding a whole lot of reefs that have been lost to time and forgotten. So what if ONE person winds up with the numbers of ONE damn reef somebody else BELIEVES they OWN. You say it "hurts" people...I say you're full of it. Nobody's hurt. Some may PERCEIVE they're getting hurt but it simply isn't the case.


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

Am I correct in remembering he ONLY sold numbers found outside the legal LAARS area?

Sounds like a bunch of lawbreaking criminals crying over spilled milk.

If you're upset about him selling your reef, you're basically admitting to breaking the law and illegally dumping in the gulf.


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## 49913 (Apr 18, 2014)

Splittine said:


> Sure whatever the decision was it was made for a legit reason and not just cause you think the mods are assholes....that's just me and for once I didn't do it.


 Transparency is a pretty simple word. Why not cut off all this speculation and have the Mods explain this?


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Ya know. After giving it a little more thought. To any of you who are upset that he may give away your secret honeyhole...ever think of simply telling him about your spot and asking him to delete it from his database? He's about as nice a guy as I've run into on here and I have no doubts he would treat every request with the utmost respect and confidentiality.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

Whether you agree with what Travis does or not; the fact is that it's legal. Maybe some people think spear fishing is cheating and don't agree with it. Or gigging flounder. Or fishing with live bait. Or using an outboard. Or deploying reefs outside established legal areas. You get the picture? Where do we draw the line on what we condone and don't condone? And do we ban every person from the forum who does things we don't agree with? If so, someone tell me where to submit my list of grievances.


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## halo1 (Oct 4, 2007)

My guess would be strikelines inadvertently discovered jimmy Hoffa's body during one of his recent scans! haha, and now the mob is in damage control! Lol


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I wonder how many of the 1000+ people who have viewed this thread already knew that he sold numbers beforehand? I wonder how many that knew or that didn't know are now thinking "Hum...they must be some really good spots if they got him banned. I need to check into this!"


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## barefoot (Nov 3, 2011)

I didn't know him, but enjoyed his stuff.

Some things just jumped out at me.
1) If the member was banned due to impacting the mods revenue, income or business, that seem like a retaliatory act rather than abiding by rules. Forum depends on members to survive, members go away...so does forum.

2) If a single mod can ban someone, there is a flaw in the system. It should take a majority vote for a written rule violation. Maybe that's what the rules say, don't know.
3) Failure to disclose reasons lead to subjection; rumor and innuendo...all contribute to the overall sourness of the situation.

4) While it also may be a breach of someone's privacy to explain in print why so-n-so was banned...seems there's enough people upset that it should be addressed somehow.

Interesting reading though...


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## RedLeg (Mar 15, 2014)

I agree with barefoot^^^ if Travis was kicked for something less than savory, most of us would move along and not worry about it. Of course, we'll all continue to speculate until the truth come out.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Legal issues are being avoided. Like I stated on the original thread banishing him to the deepest hole in the Gulf. Can't blame the mods. for not answering the questions being asked it's the lawyers. Sux anyway.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

I'm not surprised the mods won't respond and answer as to why he was banned. I am surprised Travis wasn't given any warning or explanation of their actions. If he was banned for promoting a business without being a sponsor; it seems the reasonable thing to do would be to offer him the opportunity to be a sponsor. I'm curious as to whether a certain member or members who take issue with what Travis does complained to certain moderators until he was banned. If so; that's a bitch move imo. As a disclaimer, I have no reason to believe that happened other than it's my gut feeling. And I'm NOT referring to Sealark.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Like I already stated I did not agree with what he was doing and voiced my opinion to him and him only on the open forum. I had nothing to do with Travis being banned.


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

Just caught up on this thread....what a pisser. Travis was a great contributor. He helped folks with lots of issues. He even contributed to my scout troop. So why? I can't figure it out. I just dont want to believe it is the work of one person. If so, then I think we may all be in trouble. I know this has got to be a sorespot for someone. I had a thread that I was involved in once that was deleted, never did get a satisfactory answer other than it was getting rowdy. So I guess what Travis did was unforgivable and unexplainable because no one seems to want to explain the reason for it, or moreover give him a chance to remedy it. I really did like all the great input from the members here. Ok there were a few times that it went south a little....but it got worked out. Cut him a break mods or owners, bring him back!


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

This is the thing that has always disappointed me about this site, I have seen it time and time again, someone is deleted, or a post is deleted with no explanation. So you want to have the mentality of "It's my site and if you don't like it leave" that's fine, but at least give an explanation as to why you do what you do (Mods). It seems we have the same mentality from our CIC, "I will just change the name of this mountain because I can". 
In case I get banned for this post nice knowing you all.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

CCC said:


> This is the thing that has always disappointed me about this site, I have seen it time and time again, someone is deleted, or a post is deleted with no explanation. So you want to have the mentality of "It's my site and if you don't like it leave" that's fine, but at least give an explanation as to why you do what you do (Mods). It seems we have the same mentality from our CIC, "I will just change the name of this mountain because I can".
> In case I get banned for this post nice knowing you all.


I've been holding back on this thread in fear of getting the boot. I stand by what I said ealier tho...I'll give anyone his info who asks. Just send pm.


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

Tom posted his website and phone already. His email is [email protected]


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Sometimes it's best legally to not disclose a reason.

I dunno if it's true this time, but the silence from the administrators is deafening.

Somebody owns this thing...


Jim

PS "AdBlock" blocks 99% of the ads here. MAC using Google Chrome.


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## RMS (Dec 9, 2008)

I agree with the majority of responses.

Like it or not, the world continues to evolve, and technology is a key driver, for better or worse. 

You can adapt or get left behind.


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)




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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

Wirelessly posted

The OLE here they are!
This just my opinion. I believe the State may have had something to do with him being banned. The State deployed many reefs in between Destin and Pensacola. These reefs are for research. The state has not published the numbers to the general public. Maybe Travis was finding them and selling the numbers to the general public? The honey hole I found in State waters is no honey hole anymore. Don't know what happened to it, but there is nowhere near the fish on it now. Do I blame Travis for the present day lack of fish on this reef, no! But he has been scanning the area. 
This is just my opinion. I have never met or talked to Travis. 

"GET'EM OFF THE BOTTOM"


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## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

Gentlemen, this speculation, while amusing, only allows the silence to continue longer.

Mods, why was Travis banned?


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

So he scouted other peoples numbers that they put their money and effort into and sold them for his own benefit? Who cares why he was banned, Just good riddance.

Just another case of everyone wanting to take a shortcut instead of doing their own part.

And to think that most here bitch about our government being Crooked. Not saying it isn't, just...Pot & Kettle.

Only my opinion.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Like "Robin Hood" sort of but not...


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

jlw1972 said:


> So he scouted other peoples numbers that they put their money and effort into and sold them for his own benefit? Who cares why he was banned, Just good riddance.
> 
> Just another case of everyone wanting to take a shortcut instead of doing their own part.
> 
> ...


There is NOTHING WRONG with what he was doing. It would be no different than me planting an apple tree in a public park and expecting no one to pick them but me. If you drop a reef or pay for a reef it is fair game...


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

Unless you are navigating with a sextant and doing your soundings with a bar of soap to find bottom structure then you got no room to talk about "cheating".

What he was doing wasn't personal or malicious against anyone. He was using new technology to locate structures (any structure) in public waters that might hold fish, then making the fruits of his labor available for a fee. I can see where it could piss some people off but I don't see where he was breaking any rules. I didn't see any locations on his reef map that were labeled "Bob's Super Secret Fishing Reef".


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

CCC said:


> There is NOTHING WRONG with what he was doing. It would be no different than me planting an apple tree in a public park and expecting no one to pick them but me. If you drop a reef or pay for a reef it is fair game...




I would expect no less from an idiot of your stature.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

CCC said:


> There is NOTHING WRONG with what he was doing. It would be no different than me planting an apple tree in a public park and expecting no one to pick them but me. If you drop a reef or pay for a reef it is fair game...


 
if I put a bait trap or crab trap in open water is that fair game?


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> if I put a bait trap or crab trap in open water is that fair game?


 If you don't put your name on it or mark it then it could be considered abandoned and then yes it would be fair game. 

Regardless, bait traps and reefs are two different things. In the process of getting a permit to deploy a reef you are acknowledging that you have no ownership rights.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Here's more food for thought, Whats the difference between selling Drugs or Illegal Reefs? If I go out and find a floating bail of marijuana and sell the grass? There both illegal.


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## Mac1528 (Mar 24, 2012)

sealark said:


> Here's more food for thought, Whats the difference between selling Drugs or Illegal Reefs? If I go out and find a floating bail of marijuana and sell the grass? There both illegal.


Gosh, I didn't know that. So paying for the knowledge of a position of a structure in the water for where fish may congregate which could potentially lead to a caught fish is against the law? Interesting! And yet the government says you need to have a licence (more than one) to take people fishing for hire. Go figure!


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Play'N Hooky said:


> In the process of getting a permit to deploy a reef you are acknowledging that you have no ownership rights.


I don't recall seeing that written acknowledgement line with that statement on the permit form...


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## 49913 (Apr 18, 2014)

sealark said:


> Here's more food for thought, Whats the difference between selling Drugs or Illegal Reefs? If I go out and find a floating bail of marijuana and sell the grass? There both illegal.


 Well, just off the top of my head, there's pretty much nothing illegal about knowing where the illegal reef or the weed bale is, should you run up on such. And since the one guy that Travis sells the number to, isn't likely to pick up the illegal chicken coop and sell it on the street, I'd say your food for thought is just silly.
So while I appreciate the effort that guys go to, even in unauthorized waters, to create fishing structure, what's the difference between that and baiting deer to a corn pile? Usually at least, the corn pile is on private or leased land. Only difference I can see.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

UncleMilty7 said:


> Well, just off the top of my head, there's pretty much nothing illegal about knowing where the illegal reef or the weed bale is, should you run up on such. And since the one guy that Travis sells the number to, isn't likely to pick up the illegal chicken coop and sell it on the street, I'd say your food for thought is just silly.
> So while I appreciate the effort that guys go to, even in unauthorized waters, to create fishing structure, what's the difference between that and baiting deer to a corn pile? Usually at least, the corn pile is on private or leased land. Only difference I can see.


So guy who puts reef outside of LAARS area = Bad,
But Guy who locates reef outside of LAARS area and sells it = Good,
And Guy who buys reef outside of LAARS area and fishes it = Good


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> I don't recall seeing that written acknowledgement line with that statement on the permit form...
> 
> 
> View attachment 580050


 See below....


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

In case you have trouble reading the form, here is an exerpt....​ "_I......declare that I am staging and transporting the following artificial reef construction materials allowable pursuant to_​ _the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Artificial Reef Permit referenced below and agree to comply with all permit_​ _conditions in the permit listed below and attached to this manifest. I understand this artificial reef site is open to public_​ _access and this authorization does not provide any rights or exclusive private use over those rights or uses to the_​_general public."
_


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Play'N Hooky said:


> See below....


I stand corrected.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Play'N Hooky said:


> In case you have trouble reading the form, here is an exerpt....​
> 
> "_I......declare that I am staging and transporting the following artificial reef construction materials allowable pursuant to_​
> 
> ...


 
Since the reef is "open to the public access" should it be sold for profit?


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## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

markw4321 said:


> Since the reef is "open to the public access" should it be sold for profit?



Mark, I assume you've complained to Garmin, AAA, and other mapmakers about how they're selling the locations of roads that are open to public access?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 49913 (Apr 18, 2014)

markw4321 said:


> Since the reef is "open to the public access" should it be sold for profit?


You can argue that there is an ethical question here, as opposed to a legal one, sure.
But that is only if you also argue that the people dropping these things are doing anything other than trying to create secret hidey holes for themselves. There is a tone of moral outrage amongst the guys that want Travis nailed to a wall that isn't justified.
Why does somebody drop a chicken coop in an otherwise unknown spot? Probably isn't to improve anybody else's fishery experience, is it?
Really, the whole thing is mostly moot. Technology is going to put a side scanner in most everybody's boat sooner or later. With what's out there now, what's going to be out there in 5 years? Ten?
And so the result is the Mods blast a decent guy out of here, for selling some knowledge? I think that sucks.
Read on another thread here a few weeks ago, where one of the private reef guys stated that we can all forget about people going to the trouble of dropping these things, considering how things were going. Well, that begs a question. If the spots were private and nobody besides the dropper knows about them, who gives a damn if they go away?


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## RMS (Dec 9, 2008)

markw4321 said:


> if I put a bait trap or crab trap in open water is that fair game?


No.
You are comparing apples to oranges.

In a few years, most boats will have side scanning sonar that can easily see and locate every structure worth fishing in 200ft or less.
I Have seen what the latest Garmin setup can do and it is phenomenal.

On the one hand, since the beginning of time if someone threw something overboard, with few exceptions it's been finders keepers.

On the other hand, until now, there has been a reasonable opportunity to throw something overboard and have its whereabouts remain unknown for the most part, only because no one knows where it is, not because it's location and utilization has been protected by any legal means. 
It becomes a public resource when it hits bottom, along with the fish it attracts.

I completely understand the moral argument, but the facts, the law, and technology are rapidly making the moral argument obsolete. It may not be "fair" but no one was required to deploy a reef.

Deploying a private reef is an optional, often entrepreneurial undertaking, and anyone doing so knew or should have known the rules and that this technology was coming sooner than later.

Like bag phones, this whole argument will be completely irrelevant in a few short years. 

"Progress" , for better or worse; kind of like the internet and forums......


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## MGuns (Dec 31, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> Since the reef is "open to the public access" should it be sold for profit?


The reef isn't being sold; the location of the reef is being sold. I can buy maps of locations open to the public. I can also buy maps of locations of public reefs. Some charter boat captains sell their books of numbers when they retire and you can bet those books have private locations which they didn't pay for. Some people don’t have the money for high dollar electronics and the amount of time off work to spend searching for days for structure so he provides a legal service. As far as I can tell he hasn’t broken any laws. I haven’t purchased any spots from him but I don’t condemn what he’s doing.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

tkh329 said:


> Mark, I assume you've complained to Garmin, AAA, and other mapmakers about how they're selling the locations of roads that are open to public access?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No I haven't and I don't intend too. 

The issue here is one of courtesy versus legality. For instance there is nothing illegal about pulling up an unmarked bait trap and pulling the bait out and that is even "ok" morally cause it could be abandoned.... I learned that today. 

I also understand there is nothing illegal about selling artificial reef numbers. 

I imagine that with the exception of a few outliers, that those that support Strikelines ventures and those that do not like Strikelines ventures fall into the following categories, those that have not personally paid for an placed and artificial reef, versus that have not personally paid for an placed and artificial reef respectively.


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## 49913 (Apr 18, 2014)

markw4321 said:


> No I haven't and I don't intend too.
> 
> The issue here is one of courtesy versus legality.
> 
> OK. If that's the case, how courteous was it of PFF, to make Strikelines walk the plank?


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> if I put a bait trap or crab trap in open water is that fair game?


It's perfectly ok to throw a lure close to your bait/crab trap and catch a fish off of it. Horrible example. Nobody is "taking" the reefs he's giving numbers of.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

RMS said:


> No.
> You are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> In a few years, most boats will have side scanning sonar that can easily see and locate every structure worth fishing in 200ft or less.
> ...


 
How is a bait trap in open water different from a reef when it comes to someone finding it and using it for their own purposes whatever they may be...?


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

sealark said:


> Here's more food for thought, Whats the difference between selling Drugs or Illegal Reefs? If I go out and find a floating bail of marijuana and sell the grass? There both illegal.


He's not selling the reef itself...he's simply telling someone where it is. If I find a bundle of drugs washed up on the beach, would it be wrong of me to give it's location to someone who would like to know it's there, such as law enforcement?


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

markw4321 said:


> Since the reef is "open to the public access" should it be sold for profit?


The knowledge to locate a Reef is sold. Not the reef itself.

You can consider the seller a paid teacher. I am paying that teacher to teach me how to find a reef in the middle of a large body of water.

However, lets say I am unable to read my bottom machine. So I also hire someone to teach me to read my bottom machine.

What is the difference??


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Yakavelli said:


> It's perfectly ok to throw a lure close to your bait/crab trap and catch a fish off of it. Horrible example. Nobody is "taking" the reefs he's giving numbers of.


 
I was writing about pulling the baitfish out of it...and putting it back after you get the baitfish out.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I use Google Earth to scout for flounder gigging spots...for 10 bucks I'll send you a map with some locations circled that I think are good spots.... (NOT:no


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

I have personally put out 35 toilets, chained together, dove on them and set them up in 65ft of water just a few miles outside the pass. I'm sure Travis has found it, and if he sold them to one other person, I could care less. There are a thousand other great spots to snapper fish, many I found on accident myself, some given to me, etc. 

No one is going out and having any trouble catching 2 red snapper. No one. Nothing's getting fished out, and the sky isn't falling. 

If you don't want your coops or tires or whatever found, run 40 miles SW and put them in 150ft of water. You'll get some studs in no time and it probably won't be discovered.


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

Play'N Hooky said:


> I use Google Earth to scout for flounder gigging spots...for 10 bucks I'll send you a map with some locations circled that I think are good spots....


Sounds good.

Lets say I earn $175 an hour. It took you an hour to prepare this document for me for $10.

I am now $165 up, and have a product that will assist in my two hours of floundering tonight.

Send me your banking information and I will transfer the $10.


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## RMS (Dec 9, 2008)

Mark, with all due respect, instead of the tree (Strikelines),
you need to be aware of the forest (Garmin, Furuno, Simrad/Lowrance, Raymarine, etc)


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> Since the reef is "open to the public access" should it be sold for profit?


Once again...the reef isn't being sold. It's coordinates are being sold.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> I was writing about pulling the baitfish out of it...and putting it back after you get the baitfish out.


But we're not talking about bait traps. Knowing where your bait trap is and dropping my little piece of shrimp next to it in order to catch my own bait should be the argument at hand. Nobody it pulling up any of these reefs and doing anything to them. They are simply structures in the water that attack fish.


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## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

FenderBender said:


> If you don't want your coops or tires or whatever found, run 40 miles SW and put them in 150ft of water. You'll get some studs in no time and it probably won't be discovered.



Or deploy them legally and they won't be sold. 

Taking bait or crabs from a trap, marked or unmarked, is a terrible comparison. That is removing something from inside the property of another person. In most jurisdictions that's theft. 

The folks that are so against selling reef locations, have you ever fished a dock? Did you pay to put it in or did someone else?

Why was Travis banned?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

RMS said:


> Mark, with all due respect, instead of the tree (Strikelines),
> you need to be aware of the forest (Garmin, Furuno, Simrad/Lowrance, Raymarine, etc)


 
I'm not worried about any of them. 

I am obviously not a mod and for the record I have never pm'd a mod about Strikelines. 

The bottom line reason I am not a Strikelines fan is the following-

In my opinion the rich snapper fishery we all now enjoy off Northern Florida and Alabama is due to the placement of artificial reefs. 

In my opinion businesses like Strikelines discourages artificial reef deployment ...

In other words why would someone go through the time and expense of deploying an artificial reef for snapper when you can fish it for only about a week (if you are lucky in federal waters) and or the numbers will be sold to the public. 

that's it bottom line for me.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

I move to ban Tom Hilton also....the satellite imagery analysis that he sells makes it too easy for people to find weed lines and rips.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

tkh329 said:


> Or deploy them legally and they won't be sold.
> 
> Taking bait or crabs from a trap, marked or unmarked, is a terrible comparison. That is removing something from inside the property of another person. In most jurisdictions that's theft.
> 
> ...


I don't know why he was banned.


It was established a long time ago in these reef arguments on this forum that if you place something in open water you don't own it anymore. 

Why is that different for a bait trap in open water with a bottle on it?



the reason you don't mess with another man's bait trap in open water is that would not be the "courteous" to do so. that courtesy doesn't extend to an artificial reef though...


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

Yakavelli said:


> It's perfectly ok to throw a lure close to your bait/crab trap and catch a fish off of it. Horrible example. Nobody is "taking" the reefs he's giving numbers of.



You are benefiting off the efforts/money of others. If what other folks are saying is true that it is to easy to catch snapper out there then why go to the effort to use someones reef they spend the money/effort/time to build with out permission.


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> I'm not worried about any of them.
> 
> I am obviously not a mod and for the record I have never pm'd a mod about Strikelines.
> 
> ...


 I can understand this argument. 

But this just means that the incentive model for deploying reefs needs to change. I don't have the answer as to how, but trying to combat instead of adapt to changes in technology is just pissing into the wind.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

I have run out of popcorn, anyone have a 5 gallon bucket?


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

We just need to develop Stealth Reefs.

Then one could sell and deploy Invisible Reefs.

Problem solved.


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## Capt'n Daddy (Oct 10, 2014)

FenderBender said:


> I have personally put out 35 toilets, chained together, dove on them and set them up in 65ft of water just a few miles outside the pass. I'm sure Travis has found it, and if he sold them to one other person, I could care less. There are a thousand other great spots to snapper fish, many I found on accident myself, some given to me, etc.
> 
> No one is going out and having any trouble catching 2 red snapper. No one. Nothing's getting fished out, and the sky isn't falling.
> 
> If you don't want your coops or tires or whatever found, run 40 miles SW and put them in 150ft of water. You'll get some studs in no time and it probably won't be discovered.





I found it! (Not through Travis)  Could be different I guess since I didn't count the number of toilets. LOL If its the same one, it's an older site but does hold some good fish down deep. Lots of schooly king mackerel there too at certain times of the year. 

Good news is that I only take one or two fish every couple of months. It's on the rotation so that it is not fished out! That's the key.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Play'N Hooky said:


> I can understand this argument.
> 
> But this just means that the incentive model for deploying reefs needs to change. I don't have the answer as to how, but trying to combat instead of adapt to changes in technology is just pissing into the wind.


 

Well with federal regulations putting a reef in federal waters to support private recreational RED SNAPPER fishing is basically a non-starter for both high dollar State reef deployments and lower budget personal deployments. Only people that can really access federal water reefs now fishing for any length of time for red snapper fishing is commercial and federally permitted charter (44 or so days this year) 

what needs to happen in my mind if they are not already doing it is the State, Corps of Engineers, and FWC need to get busy creating some very large permitted reef placement areas inside 9 miles...


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

markw4321 said:


> if I put a bait trap or crab trap in open water is that fair game?


Absolutely not because there are laws on the books protecting them


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## capt mike (Oct 3, 2007)

*Moderators*

I for one think they did the ethical thing!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

jlw1972 said:


> I would expect no less from an idiot of your stature.


Spoken like a true keyboard cowboy, when someone disagrees with you you name call behind a screen. Nice


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## Capt'n Daddy (Oct 10, 2014)

markw4321 said:


> Well with federal regulations putting a reef in federal waters to support private recreational RED SNAPPER fishing is basically a non-starter for both high dollar State reef deployments and lower budget personal deployments. Only people that can really access federal water reefs now fishing for any length of time for red snapper fishing is commercial and federally permitted charter (44 or so days this year)
> 
> what needs to happen in my mind if they are not already doing it is the State, Corps of Engineers, and FWC need to get busy creating some very large permitted reef placement areas inside 9 miles...


They have a ton of public reefs inside of 9NM boundary, so I personally do not feel that it is the issue. The problem is that the fish are hit so hard the first week that the bigger fish get very leader and hook shy. I've taken some monsters off of public wrecks (15+ lb) weeks after opening b/c I adapt my tackle. Lots of weekend warriors don't and then complain about only small fish on the public wrecks. Anyone who has dove a public wreck, especially the larger ones knows just how many fish are on there.

BTW...I'm still catching 20+ inch ARS in the bay. 

Thinking of changing my handle to "Snapper Tracker"


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## jcasey (Oct 12, 2007)

Originally Posted by *jlw1972*  
_I would expect no less from an idiot of your stature.


_ Spoken like a true keyboard cowboy, when someone disagrees with you you name call behind a screen. Nice 


Best thread of the week... Here we go.


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## jcasey (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm sure there is a valid reason for him getting the boot. Get over it. His contact has been put on here. Call him yourself and buy his numbers directly from him.


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## barefoot (Nov 3, 2011)

Have you actually read the posting rules?
*Forum Posting Rules: *
The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on our site. Please read through all of these rules before using our site and contact us if you have questions.
 

Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on pensacolafishingforum.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned. 
No pornographic material or links to pornographic material may be posted on this site. EVER! This includes all sexually suggestive images. 
Profanity shall be kept to a minimum. 
You may only post material and content that you own. Posting copyrighted material, trademarks, and other violations of the DMCA is prohibited.
By using this site, you agree to maintain and use only one account. If you need to re-register for some reason, please contact a member of the Moderation Team. If you are found to have more than one user account, it will be evaluated by the Admins and will likely result in banning. As always, there are extreme exceptions that will be looked into at the Admins’ discretions. 
 These rules may be altered at any time without notice so please check this page often. Thanks.
*********************************************
I guess he was banned due to Rule #1, inappropriate behavior...that's subjective now isn't it.

Let’s see….RULE #1: treat each other w/ respect, that means no more picking on MATRIX SHADS or Josh or you can be banned.

#2: No porno, EVER it says… This includes all sexually suggestive images but some of our avatars are pretty borderline and don’t forget all the pics of big boob ”fisher-women”, even though it may offend some of our more straight laced members…it must be ok or those guys would be banned.

#3: No Profanity, that’s means cussing for all those raised around here. Oh hell no, that doesn’t happen on here at all or we would be banned.

#4: Post only non-trademarked materials, so when we post pics of lures, comments, jokes, etc. copied from other sites, we all need to be banned.

#5: 1 account…HA! that’s a hoot, there are folks w/ multiple accounts, some being used to drive up their “view count” of the posts, we should all be banned!

After my professional review of our rules and current operating status, we should all be banned!

Still sounds like a mod or 2 exercised their authority for personal retaliation. Can't seem to find "Selling bottom spots" as a rule violation.

Probably just over-looked it...:whistling:


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Pier-Dude said:


> You are benefiting off the efforts/money of others. If what other folks are saying is true that it is to easy to catch snapper out there then why go to the effort to use someones reef they spend the money/effort/time to build with out permission.


Because public reefs are a HUGE pain in the ass during snapper season. For those of us who DIDN'T break the LAW and drop down chicken coops or toilets or whatever, it would be wonderful if we could spread out a little bit instead of pissing each other off by trying to fit 15 boats on an area only 5 can fish comfortably. 

Since Travis only scans areas where it's ILLEGAL to drop reefs, I say everyone who gets their panties in a wad over we LAW ABIDING fishermen wanting to spread out a little can pucker up and kiss some ass.

Ultimately...why did these guys BREAK THE LAW and drop down ILLEGAL reefs to begin with? Because they wanted to get away from the crowd and ENJOY FISHING. Same reason we would love to have numbers to less known spots. There's plenty of structure out there to go around and I'd bet money that NOBODY knows about huge percentage of it. 

You pissy guys are lucky Travis isn't me. If I'd been booted like that, I'd spend my last dime printing charts which point out every single reef out there and would sell them CHEAP...to everyone.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

barefoot said:


> Have you actually read the posting rules?
> *Forum Posting Rules: *
> The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on our site. Please read through all of these rules before using our site and contact us if you have questions.
> 
> ...


Upon considering this list and remembering his posts...it very well could be #4. If that's the case, I can't argue it. For the sake of salvaging my respect for the forum big dawgs, I'm going with this as the reason he's gone.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

barefoot said:


> Have you actually read the posting rules?
> *Forum Posting Rules: *
> The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on our site. Please read through all of these rules before using our site and contact us if you have questions.
> 
> ...



The irony of this post is so awesome. Kinda like that one guy that created the fake account to bitch about all the matrix threads....remember that one barefoot? Can't remember his name....:whistling:


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