# How close inshore are lionfish?



## captainmw

I've only been finding them in water 50+ feet. Is anyone finding them further inshore? Are the expected to eventually be found in bay waters as well? I was looking around online to see what the biologists anticipate but didn't find anything. Anyone know?


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## DukeS

http://blog.al.com/live/2012/07/lionfish_population_is_explodi.html

"A survey of scuba divers with spearfishing permits conducted by the Dauphin Island Sea Lab yielded hundreds of reports of lionfish in area waters. One fish was reported under a pier in Old River next to Ono Island, in just a few feet of water. Last week, a lionfish was killed in 11 feet of water at Fort Pickens in Pensacola Bay."


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## sealark

Yes they are in the bay but not in an numbers. Down in key west they are in shallow water like 3 or 4 feet where there is cover for them.


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## DukeS

and:
http://absci.fiu.edu/2013/01/best-science-fair-project-ever-lionfish-salinity-tolerance/


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## captainmw

Interesting link, Duke. It seems inevitable that they'll end up in the bay. I live on the water on Old River. Will have to toss the gear in one day and poke around under the dock sometime and keep an eye out for them in here.


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## JD7.62

Eight days in lower salinity does not mean they can live in it. Am important thing to consider is that lionfish are a tropical species. Shallower water is more prone to temperature extremes through out the year in our area. 

Due to colder winters here I will put money on it that they will never get too far up our bays. During the summer, sure but there is no way they will last all winter. In deeper water the water stays warmer in the winter and cooler during the summer hence why we see them there.


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## DawnsKayBug

I used to dive in Guam where they were native. They do not scare. They just hang around. they should be an easy kill. They need to have a bounty on them like MD did with Snakeheads. $1 a fish seems reasonable?? In MD it was like $25 gift certificate or something a fish.


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## captainmw

I would imagine just like most other species they would migrate offshore to deeper water in the winter. But it will be interesting to see in the next couple years how dense we find them in the bay through the summer months.


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## gator7_5

DawnsKayBug said:


> I used to dive in Guam where they were native. They do not scare. They just hang around. they should be an easy kill. They need to have a bounty on them like MD did with Snakeheads. $1 a fish seems reasonable?? In MD it was like $25 gift certificate or something a fish.


What predator keeps them in check in Guam?


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## captainmw

I think there's a type of grouper or something that feeds on them. They have a few predators. Not many, but enough to keep them in check. When I dive in Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean / Red Sea areas we'll see a few here or there, but rarely more than a 2-6 or so on an average reef or wreck dive


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## Baker8425

Wirelessly posted

I have dove with lionfish in their native areas as well, Guam, PI, Thailand, and Okinawa. never seen anything eat them. They don't seem scared of anything. Have read about people in the Bahamas trying to train sharks to eat them...


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## DawnsKayBug

If we could get them marketable to eat like Red Snapper that might help put a demand on dead ones.


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## sealark

DawnsKayBug said:


> If we could get them marketable to eat like Red Snapper that might help put a demand on dead ones.


There is not enough lionfish to support a commercial industry. Plus with just divers harvesting them. I have already gave some to Marias seafood to prepare and try out. They are really good eating just about like flounder. I saw an article where they were scallin,gutting, heading and cutting fins off and frying whole.


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## cobran

I've seen a couple off the seawall at NAS


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## Candy

Attached is a study done by Florida International University. Awesome that they tagged lionfish! Sad that they are beginning to populate in lower salinity levels without dying.


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## Candy

This research was from Loxahatchee River. 

Conducted by Florida International University.

Here are the interesting highlights: (see attachments) 

Shows lionfish migration up the Loxahatchee River

Shows lionfish site fidelity

Done by tagging lionfish


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## sealark

Ok last two years have been seasonally warm water on the bottom close to shore stayed in the 60s. Lets wait and see how they do when we get a cold winter like i have seen in the 40s. Candy in your extensive reasearch what temps do they thrive in?


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## Candy

Lionfish populations have been observed in waters that were 600' deep. 

The lionfish has also established populations in the Atlantic, as far north as MA. 

Cold water doesn't kill them.

They are also quickly able to adapt to reduced salinity levels which puts estuary's in grave danger.

Bay shrimpers should be concerned because it is just a matter of time before the lionfish begins to populate our bays and bayous.


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## sealark

Wow as far as Mass. It's damn sure colder up there than here. with that in mind I doubt the winters here will have any effect on them. Mass waters in the winter get down to in the low 30s.


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## Candy

Yes, it's going to be worse in the Panhandle if we don't get a quick start on controlling the numbers.

It took nearly 18 years for the lionfish to migrate from Dania Florida all the way to MA. It has only taken 7 years for the entire GOM to be invaded. Watch the year by year migration map here:

http://nas.er.usgs.gov//queries/SpeciesAnimatedMap.aspx?speciesID=963

I was very disturbed when I watched this migration map. Our government KNEW that the GOM would be invaded years before they ever reached the Gulf and yet, they never did anything to even attempt to slow the migration or control the population explosion. It has been 28 years since they learned that lionfish were in Florida's waters and still, neither the FWC or NOAA has a management plan!

The FWC is hosting a lionfish summit in Cocoa Beach October 22-24 and for the first time ever, population control has been added to the agenda. I plan on attending and will be writing a post summit report when I return. Let's all hope Florida adopts a very aggressive lionfish population control program that will have measurable results. The future of our fishery depends on it!


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## WhackUmStackUm

Candy said:


> ...I was very disturbed when I watched this migration map. Our government KNEW that the GOM would be invaded years before they ever reached the Gulf and yet, they never did anything to even attempt to slow the migration or control the population explosion. It has been 28 years since they learned that lionfish were in Florida's waters and still, neither the FWC or NOAA has a management plan!...


Just wondering what everyone else thinks. 

It is our government's job to "protect us" from lionfish?


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## captainmw

Candy has your group spoken with any if the bay shrimpers to find out if they're catching any in the bay?


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## Candy

I have spoken to 3 that shrimp in the Choctawhatchee Bay but none in Pensacola or Panama City. So far, no reported lionfish catches in the shrimp trawls here, that I know of.

One of our local dive shop owners has reported seeing lionfish under the Destin Bridge and, we have had confirmed sightings of lionfish on the Jetties at the mouth of Destin East Pass. It is against the law to spearfish at the jetties so populations there are, in effect, being protected by regulations written before the lionfish invasion. 

I have suggested to the FWC that they have specific jetty and bridge cleaning events where FWC law enforcement would protect the divers during a spearing event from being run over by boats or hooked with a fish hook. They would have to keep the swimmers and snorkelers out of the water, for their safety, during a lionfish spearing event on the jetties.

I also suggested that they remove the re-breather regulation for State waters because someone on a re-breather can stay down so much longer and, seasons and bag limits prevent them from over fishing anyway.


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## Candy

*NMFS Mission Statement: Stewardship of living marine resources for the benefit of the nation through their science-based conservation and management and promotion of the health of their environment.*

*FWC Mission Statement: Managing fish and wildlife resources for their long-term well-being and the benefit of people.*


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## whitetail187

saw youtube video of one at ft. pickens


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## dsar592

Candy...It seems like you have some good ideas. Keep up the good work.


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## Fish-n-Fur

dsar592 said:


> Candy...It seems like you have some good ideas. Keep up the good work.


+1, keep up the good work brother! :thumbsup:


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## Pourman1

Anyone seen them close to the Beaches this year ?? ... I'm wondering if the Alabama Point Jetties or some of the Inshore Reefs placed by the County are holding them ??


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## whitetail187

I think dive pros was or is offering bounties on them. Something like getting so many will give you a free tank fill. Not sure about the specifics but I know they offer free classes on where to find them, how to handle them and how to clean and filet them. As I understand it they used to just kill them and leave them but found that was bringing sharks in for clean up and associating divers with food. But that also brings to question wether that would train the sharks that they can eat them


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