# Food for thought...(and the dinner plate)



## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

The FWC and all the "biologists" would have us divers make a dedicated effort to irradicate lionfish. Well here's my perspective on it. I love to dive, I love to spearfish and I love to eat fresh fish! I want to teach my son to dive, spearfsih and cook his own fish. I'm NOT a commerical guy so all I can harvest are the recreational fish.

So yesterday I went diving with some friends. The first wreck I hit was a KILLER Tire pile LOADED with RED snapper and TRIGGERFISH...both of which I enjoy eating. Well, guess what, all I could harvest were....you guessed it ...Lionfish!

so for those that DON'T know, and I hope you are all aware, NOAA has a plan by the year 2020 to make the entire Gulf of Mexico a recreational catch and release only fishery....don't take my word for it, if you've been living with yoiur head in the sand do a simple google search of "NOAA vision 2020" make sure you read from the ACTUAL NOAA site as not to be confused by nuts like myself.

so now, once you've read that and you see that is indeed their plan, WHY Is it in my best interest to irradicate possibly the LAST remaining fishery that I will be allowed to harvest with speargun?

As for me, I propose we begin NOW managing the lionfish fishery, to maintain a sustainable population well into the future!

I conceed, I will start carrying a lionfish tube (home built of course) and will start harvesting these deliciious fish. I WILL NOT contribute to the collapse of the last remaining year round speargunning fishery! I pledge to harvest ONLY what are niced sized ones leaving the future stock to grow for my next visit.

given the current overpopulation of red snapper and the soon to be overpopulation of triggerfish, I'm sure there will be substantial fry to support, maintain and perhaps even grow, if we're lucky, the current lionfish fishery!

Please, as spearfisherman who would like the sport of spearfishing to be generational for decads to come, join with me in pledging your support of maintaining a healthy lionfish population.

they taste great and they'll be THE last fish we can target as spearfisherman.


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

10/10


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## TONER (Mar 25, 2008)

I agree they are delicious to eat sounds logical to me seems like so far they are interacting well with other fish every wreck we dive is overrun with red snapper and triggerfish along with a good stock of lionfish seeing how the lionfish are the only thing we are allowed to harvest it would seem senseless to try and Eradicate them they may be an invasive species and eat smaller native fish but if you think about it 50 15 to 20 pound red snapper on a chicken Coop eat everything in sight


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

EXCEPT of course, for now, they DON'T eat adult lionfish! let's hope it stays that way to maintain our healthy fishery for lionfish!

I for one, ended the day with a gallon bag of filets!

had the lionfish fishery not been healthy, I would've had to have begged one of my diving buddies for a piece of worm-ridden AJ!



TONER said:


> I agree they are delicious to eat sounds logical to me seems like so far they are interacting well with other fish every wreck we dive is overrun with red snapper and triggerfish along with a good stock of lionfish seeing how the lionfish are the only thing we are allowed to harvest it would seem senseless to try and Eradicate them they may be an invasive species and eat smaller native fish but if you think about it 50 15 to 20 pound red snapper on a chicken Coop eat everything in sight


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## naclh2oDave (Apr 8, 2008)

Most people just can't swallow that pill. The fact is that NOAA will have their way, they want the gulf to be like a trophy hunting ranch that is picture shoot only. If lionfish is our last stand then yeah, lets at least maintain a healthy population of the invaders for our traditions and family time. Makes sense honestly.


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## Critterfl (Dec 23, 2013)

*The Economic Impact of Saltwater Fishing in Florida*

I agree BB+, only kill what you are going to eat with respect to our Lionfish fishery! Let the charter boats and commercial guys deal with the consequences of there constant lobby against recreational fisherman/spear fisherman!

We could have a voice in this situation! Consider the following copied directly off the FWC web site:

_Saltwater Recreational Fishing
Anglers
#1 in nation in *saltwater anglers (2.4 million)* – 2011 USFWS Survey, as compiled by Southwick Associates
Licensing
*1,612,102* recreational saltwater licenses sold (resident and nonresident) in fiscal year 13/14
*$29,073,573 in revenue generated from license sales*
Economics
Economic impact:
*Saltwater recreational fishing- $7.6 billion,*
*Supports: 109,341 job * (Source: National Marine Fisheries Service, 2014 report, using 2012 NOAA data)
Florida #1 in angler (fresh and saltwater) expenditures_

We need a unified voice to combat these oppressive regulations! There are 2,400,000 recreational fisherman/voters and $7,600,000,000 dollars of our Florida economy in jeopardy. The state and federal politicians will listen if we organize.

I nominate BB+ as the first President of the new *Gulf States Recreational Fishing Association*! :thumbup:


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## naclh2oDave (Apr 8, 2008)

http://www.gulfcoastlionfish.com/lionfish_events.html

Lion fish awareness day in Pensacola is May 14-17 at the Palafox pier, there should probably be a group of picketers flaunting some "Save the Lionfish " signs.


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## aquatic argobull (Mar 2, 2009)

Billybob+ said:


> The FWC and all the "biologists" would have us divers make a dedicated effort to irradicate lionfish.


a) Come on man, you're giving away our secret!

b) I get what you're saying here, and it does make sense. Why should I care if the lionfish outcompete and decimate the snapper population if we aren't allowed to take them anyways?! I'll stick to taking on average 20-30 pounds of lionfish each trip. I think we both believe, however, that humans have a relatively small impact on the (what I presume to be in massive influx followed by eventually stabilizing) lionfish population. The only thing that's going to cull the population is when grouper and snapper realize that they can be hunted. 

c) What kind of lionfish containment unit are you going to make? Maybe you should look through the threads here for a post by Whack 'em Stack 'em. He made a pretty sweet lionfish containment unit out of a 7 gallon bucket. Maybe he will chime in and talk about the pros and cons of that design. :thumbsup:


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## FreeDiver (Jun 12, 2013)

Catch and release only...... They have a sad fucking day with me.... Ain't gonna happen.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

FreeDiver said:


> Catch and release only...... They have a sad fuc#/%& day with me.... Ain't gonna happen.


Edit the above OK


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

It will happen, and we the private peons will allow it too! If you haven't noticed, snapper/triggerfish/grouper all already a catch and release fishery for 11 months+ out of the year....what's it to them to bump it up to one more month

I just had lunch with a guy and he apparently works for some segment of the fishery management. 

He overheard me talking about killing lionfish and got excited. He even invited me to the "lionfish aweness"

When I explained to him my persective he looked at me like I was from another planet and said "don't you know this non-indigenous species will wipe out the snapper and grouper!"

to which I replied, GOOD, If we the divers are killing all the lionfish only to protect a fishery being expoited by money-making commercial and charter people, I personally don't understand the point! If the only way to get snapper will be to go to a fish market with an EBT card that I didn't earn but the glorious government found in their infinite graciousness to bless me with, I'll eat lionfish!




FreeDiver said:


> Catch and release only...... They have a sad ng day with me.... Ain't gonna happen.


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## Critterfl (Dec 23, 2013)

*By 2020, angler satisfaction is from the recreational experience, not take or kill!*

 *Highlights from NOAA Lack Of Vision 20/20*​ A shorter season than closed is still closed!​ "*To achieve optimum yield, adaptive management measures such as a temporary reallocation of quota is available to managers. For example, if commercial quota is not harvested, managers are able to temporarily r**eassign the under harvested quota to provide additional recreational opportunity, and vice versa."*​ Vice Versa is winning so far!!!!!​ ​ Missed the part about construction of recreational offshore reefs!!!!!​ ​ ​ APPENDIX IV: R​ ECREATIONAL FISHING ​
* Issue Statement 1: Growth in populations and coastal tourism are resulting in increasing numbers of recreational fishermen. Therefore, the impact these fishermen are having on fish stocks is increasing. As this demand for recreational fishing continues to increase, recreational fishermen will request increases in fish allocated to the recreational sector. ​ Background: ​* According to a NOAA report21, an estimated 153 million people lived in coastal counties in 2003. This population represents an increase of 33 million people or 28 percent from 1980. In addition, a review of NOAA sponsored Marine Recreational Fisheries Statistical Survey data from the years 1981 to 2005 shows a near doubling nationally of marine recreational anglers from 6.9 million to 11.2 million or a growth rate of approximately 3 percent per year. The value of recreational fishing as an economic engine for coastal communities should be recognized and exploited to a greater degree. The recreational fishing experience could rival or exceed recreational fishing catch as a prime motivator for recreational fishing. ​
* Current Situation:​* The current rate of increase in the angling population creates new management concerns. If the rate of recreational fishermen continues to increase at 3 percent per annum, by 2020 the number of recreational fishermen will increase by 7.3 million to a projected level of 18.5 million. This change will result in a significant increase of fishing effort and catch (i.e., mortality), all else equal. By 2020 continued growth in recreational angling will require that anglers focus more on the fishing experience and less on the number of fish landed. However, while post-release mortality in catch and release fisheries is usually low (often 2-5 percent), as fishing effort increases, post-release mortality will become an increasing proportion of total mortality. It is conceivable that the cumulative total of post-release mortality could increase to levels equal to the total allowable mortality for a fishery. As the number of recreational fishermen continues to increase, improved monitoring will be necessary to assess the fishing effort and catch. A national saltwater angler’s registry under development will be a necessary tool to collect data. ​* Preferred State in 2020:​* Many recreational species have limited population growth rates and are too valuable to be caught only once. *By 2020, catch and release fishing is emphasized and accounted for in specific species assessments.* The proper techniques for release are refined and disseminated to lower post release mortality.* For other fisheries, minimum size limits and reduced daily bag limits are sufficient management measures to maintain healthy standing stocks.* Additional seasonal closures are considered to eliminate or redirect effort.​ *By 2020, angler satisfaction is derived from the recreational fishing experience rather than the take or "kill" fish.*​ *To achieve optimum yield, adaptive management measures such as a temporary reallocation of quota is available to managers. For example, if commercial quota is not harvested, managers are able to temporarily r**eassign the under harvested quota to provide additional recreational opportunity, and vice versa. *​* Proposed Actions to Accomplish Preferred State:​* (a) Improve collection of recreational catch, release, and harvest data,​ (b) Create and use the recreational angler registry.​ (c) Continue to promote catch and release fisheries,​ (d) Reduce daily bag limits and implement minimum or maximum size limits when necessary for those fish stocks where resorting to total catch and release is not necessary,​ (e) Promote research to accurately quantify and minimize post release mortality,​ (f) Increase the length of seasonal closures when necessary and encourage the recreational community to maximize the profitability of open seasons,​ (g) Amend fishery management plans to allow for timely conversion of unused commercial allocation to the recreational sector and vice versa;​ (h) Implement a variety of programs and incentives to enhance the conservation ethic of recreational anglers.​* Proposed Entity(s) to Promote Actions:​* (a) The leadership of the recreational fishing community should promote the total recreational fishing experience, instill a conservation ethic, and de-emphasize landings.​ (b) Industry and NOAA Fisheries should continue to support research and technology designed to reduce post release mortality.​ (c) Management (councils, commissions, NOAA Fisheries) should consider extending closed seasons to reduce mortality.​ (d) Management, (councils, commissions, NOAA Fisheries), should amend fishery management plans to allow, when appropriate, the conversion of commercial quota onto recreational quota and vice versa.​18


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## Ozeanjager (Feb 2, 2008)

Thou shall not kill the Kings deer. This will not stand , they take far too much in tax dollars to come back with this as their solution.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

well, I'm not sure how long you've been fishing but if 15 years ago, someone had told us that in 2015 we'd only get 1-2 days to catch red snapper and only the month of January for triggerfish, we'd have laughed in thier face...saying pretty much the same thing as you...that "this would not stand" but now we fast forward to today, and it does.
mark my words, in 2020 we'll be wondering how we got "here"
I just hope I can still kill LIONFISH!!



Ozeanjager said:


> Thou shall not kill the Kings deer. This will not stand , they take far too much in tax dollars to come back with this as their solution.


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## aquatic argobull (Mar 2, 2009)

Y'all might think I'm crazy, but I do think there's change on the horizon for our us. King Crabtree will soon be de-throned. There's too much state opposition to keep this trend. The states know the value of the recreational sector and they are losing big because of the devaluation of the rec sector.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

That's what the whole "Sector Segregation" thing was about...to buy off the charter fleets (who are organized)
...they are now happy, the commerical guys are happy, the only ones who AREN'T is us private boat rec guys and we don't count because we don't buy (lobby)policy.

A.A. If you think for a minute, they'll suddenly realized that there's an overpopulation of snapper and perhaps we should let taxpayers have some, I think you are gonna be sorely dissapointed.

Big government NEVER surrenders captured segments of private life.

JUST PLEASE EVERYONE. commit with me in protecting the LAST year round fishery! Harvest ONLY what you will consume of the lionfish and be SURE to leave some on every site for repopulation!


S E


aquatic argobull said:


> Y'all might think I'm crazy, but I do think there's change on the horizon for our us. King Crabtree will soon be de-throned. There's too much state opposition to keep this trend. The states know the value of the recreational sector and they are losing big because of the devaluation of the rec sector.


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## Ozeanjager (Feb 2, 2008)

I have a question? How does the whole " fishing for the experience tag and release " thing work for spear fishing? Does Noaa plan on just eliminating that entire sector?


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## Chasin' Tales (Oct 2, 2007)

Billybob+ said:


> Harvest ONLY what you will consume of the lionfish and be SURE to leave some on every site for repopulation!


Leave all you want if it makes you feel better. There's always going to be plenty of lionfish lurking in the depths below the limits of recreational divers to repopulate shallower areas. 

Me personally...I'm going to stick every lionfish possible. Ultimately grouper and sharks will end up controlling the lionfish population, but that's a long way off.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

remember, according to NOAA, (don't shoot me I'm the messenger) you are supposed to "derive your pleasure from the experience rather than the harvest"
so I suspcet we spearfishermen will either:

A) set up a balloon course with Fish shaped balloons and shoot them, Maybe the Red balloons will be worth 10# of excitement and the blue worth 5# of excitement and maybe, just maybe you pop a free floating BLACK balloon and you get a whopping 50 pounder!! THAT would reallys send a thrill up my leg

or

B) Spearguns will become collectors items and they'll make great conversation pieces to tell our grand children about "I remember the time I KILLED a red snapper with this thing!"
to which the grandchild will go screaming to his mom WHHHAAAAAA "grandpa is a mean hateful man! He hurts FISH!" and perhaps his Mom will comfort him with "there, there Son, I'm sorry but those barbaric activites of the past are all forgotten....thank GOD for the Savior Roy CrapPee who had the courage to end these evil peoples wanton destruction.....Now here, enjoy this nice Mrs. Pauls Fish Stick"




Ozeanjager said:


> I have a question? How does the whole " fishing for the experience tag and release " thing work for spear fishing? Does Noaa plan on just eliminating that entire sector?


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