# NO ARS season in federal waters



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

9 or 11 days makes no difference. We have NO American red snapper season this year, and will have none until we are forced to buy back what was once ours to begin with. Grouper, both gag & red, will be next. After that, watch out mangrove snapper. Watch for EDF to dictate that even pin fish are being 'over-fished!' 
Guys, the situation we are now seeing is absolutely nothing new. EDF, Pew, etc., have been working for years to infiltrate every aspect of our government. NOAA's 9-11 day ARS season has one and only one purpose, to lead us into catch shares. Think the Walton Foundation, better known as Walmart, has donated millions earmarked for the push for catch shares, out of the goodness of their hearts. Think again! Walmart's profit from selling us back our own fish is predicted to be in the billions.
We, the fishermen/women of this once great country are the vast majority. However, apathy is killing us. We are dictated too by the few because we have allowed it to happen. EDF, Pew, Etc. are united, very well funded, and extremely persistent. We are NONE of the above. 9 or 11 day ARS season; we have allowed it to happen!


----------



## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

Now that is pretty cool ~~ NOT.

Go to Walmart, purchase the ability to go offshore, and catch Red Snappers.
I wonder how many you will be able to purchase at one time?
I wonder how much it will cost?

It is so sad, I have to laugh.


----------



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Capt. Ard has already spilled the beans - the Plan is to do a Gulf-wide *MULTI-SPECIES IFQ* program, so as we have been saying for some time now - this ain't just about red snapper. Red snapper is just the gateway drug. It will expand into Grouper, Amberjacks, Mingos, - just about everything that we fish for.

The rest of us will be put into a common pool where we will be required to apply for a fish tag to be distributed via lottery, like the western Elk or Florida gator tags.

Is that REALLY what is best for the Gulf recreational anglers who fish aboard private rec vessels, chart boats and headboats?

I don't think so. There are better ways to provide the required accountability, and to apportion the fish based on knowingly false numbers is felony theft - plain and simple.


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

The Federal season hasn't been cancelled as of yet.


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Who knows what tags will cost. Rest assured...it will be plenty. The federal season may not have been canceled, YET! But, for all practical purposes, it has been. 
The Gulf Council says 11 days is all the recreational sector can stand. Can't help but wonder how the commercial interest can still catch American reds by the ton?


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

They're talking about pushing the State season to 54 day's, I'm assuming taking away two day's from the Federal season, because they conjoin together. They will make a final decision on 5/15 for the Federal season.


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

Last year the state ARS seaon was 44 days, with a fall season in stae and federal waters. That's one factor why the federal season was shortened because they extended the state season. So actually it's better for the recs. with a longer state season. Besides they're 15/20lbs, right in the pass, less gas for the boat.


----------



## 24ft fishmaster (Apr 26, 2012)

So backbone do you think more people fishing in state waters will help the snapper population? The reason the fishing is good as it is because I can go oneday in the bay catch my limit then the next trip run 30 miles out.


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Better for the recs in Northern Florida only. The remainder of the state has NO red snapper in state waters.


----------



## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

It's not rocket science..they've already made it clear the long term intention is to make the Gulf of Mexico (U.S. of course) a "catch and release" fishery only.

if you don't believe me, simply google "noaa vision 2020"

it's a 28 page statement from NMFS which states that the Northern US gulf should be catch and release only

at which point, good ole fisherman will yell and scream and then they'll graciously SELL us the "right" back to catch "their" fish....for a handsome per/fish fee of course....


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Big money*

Agreed 100% Money, really big $$$, is the name of the game.


----------



## pcfisher22 (Jan 11, 2014)

We should all go out and fish 54 days in federal waters and disregard their penalties. Only a revolution will change this


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*What's next?*

I have always respected law & order. But look where it is taking us. Our ARS season is over even before it starts. What's next???


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

There's plenty of fish in the sea


----------



## Hot Reels (Oct 3, 2007)

Just like what happened in Russia. Eventually nobody could catch any fish (because you might catch your neighbors fish) except the government licensed/owned boats, then you could buy fish in the government owned markets.


----------



## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

BananaTom said:


> Now that is pretty cool ~~ NOT.
> 
> Go to Walmart, purchase the ability to go offshore, and catch Red Snappers.
> I wonder how many you will be able to purchase at one time?
> ...


I wonder who will be allowed to buy them wholesale direct at a discount?


----------



## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Hot Reels said:


> Just like what happened in Russia. Eventually nobody could catch any fish (because you might catch your neighbors fish) except the government licensed/owned boats, then you could buy fish in the government owned markets.


Did this really happen in Russia? No private recreational fishing?


----------



## Team Fish Head (Oct 1, 2012)

What we have here is a disconnect between the truth and the law. Sadly, there exists a fiat bureaucracy that enjoys the full force of law behind it regardless of the efficacy of their renderings.....as it were. And We the People, who supposedly have a say are left to such excuses as "the one hour provided for comment is sufficient, besides it doesn't matter wtf you think anyway" reply.

A papa, a Patriot, and a fisherman am I. Always believe that if it isn't Right, then it's wrong. The system is fine but those who have been designated to operate it are severely and dangerously FLAWED. The FAIL we have all witnessed over the Years is enough to ask for a total overhaul of Washington, yet the very folks we HIRE resist.

This deal over the ARS is the epitome of stupid. And why aren't those charged with the oversight of this clusterfrack being fired? We all are concerned with the Fishery and simply want the best effort put forth to insure that it is sustained, yet we are being FOUGHT by the very persons charged with the responsibility? For crying out loud, this is like some of the Family battles I've endured over the decades.

When government devolves into such morass, then it is WAY past high time for as many as of us is as possible to share this kind of dumb so that others will understand that they are being sold out AND sold out by folks who delight in compelling and manipulating folks into their stupefied state of autonomic obedience.


----------



## JVT (Jun 5, 2009)

So...will this ultimately turn to civil disobedience on part of the recreational fisherman? Or will it just turn us into outlaws? 

We fish and hunt because we are fishermen and hunters. We (vast majority) have obeyed game laws because they made some sense. We are getting into the realm of nonsensical fisheries management - see paragraph above.


----------



## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

JVT said:


> So...will this ultimately turn to civil disobedience on part of the recreational fisherman? Or will it just turn us into outlaws?
> 
> We fish and hunt because we are fishermen and hunters. We (vast majority) have obeyed game laws because they made some sense. We are getting into the realm of nonsensical fisheries management - see paragraph above.


Civil disobedience is as easy as having someone.you can trust with a disposable Trac phone that you have the number too run the pass and check out the ramp area just ahead of you for fish police.


----------



## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

Harbison said:


> Who knows what tags will cost. Rest assured...it will be plenty. The federal season may not have been canceled, YET! But, for all practical purposes, it has been.
> The Gulf Council says 11 days is all the recreational sector can stand. Can't help but wonder how the commercial interest can still catch American reds by the ton?


It has to a certain extent been ruined.
Out of 11 days. That's leaves only two weekends. Most all recreational and charters are gonna be during the weekend. So at most in perfect seas we get 4 days. 
The working man has got to work during the week, to be able to play on the weekend. And you have to take in consideration weather. And with so many few days, people will push the limits farther, because of the quest of catching this stupid fish. Which can become dangerous


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Quota over-fished in 4 days!*

Exactly! And guess what? NOAA will prove that we over-fished our quota during these 4 days!


----------



## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

States are already bucking the Feds on seasons in State waters. Perhaps next if some Governor directs State Fish & Game Officers to enforce State regulations only ... and not Federal?


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*Extend Florida waters jurisdiction*

Florida has told the feds what they can do with their 11 day ARS season. Unfortunately, for now at least, our state only controls waters up 9 miles out. EDF's NOAA has done a good job of destroying our fishery. It's time, past time, for Florida to manage our own fish. Crabtree's Gulf Council must go. Florida jurisdiction must be extended to 200 miles.


----------



## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

I agree with Andy. I venture to guess, at this end of Florida, that FWC does the feds work in federal waters 90% of the time. Make a regulation that says state law enforcement officers can only enforce state laws. Then lets see how much money the feds want to spend on enforcing asinine seasons.


----------



## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

This is about money. The mighty dollar. 
If there is a dollar to be made, the feds are gonna make it. Regardless of state or federal law. It's about the money now. And with very strict rules on the fisherman, comes tons of money. Tell someone they can't do something, and you would be surprised how many people go and do it. 
Who cares about the stupid fish, money pays the bills, and at the end of the day, the only thing the really matters is the money. 
Sorry poor fish, you really don't matter any more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Bean Counter said:


> I agree with Andy. I venture to guess, at this end of Florida, that FWC does the feds work in federal waters 90% of the time. Make a regulation that says state law enforcement officers can only enforce state laws. Then lets see how much money the feds want to spend on enforcing asinine seasons.


I don't think it would even take a regulation ... I expect the Governor could could exercise executive authority & just direct FWC not to enforce Federal regulations ... only State.


----------



## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Chapman5011 said:


> This is about money. The mighty dollar.
> If there is a dollar to be made, the feds are gonna make it. Regardless of state or federal law. It's about the money now. And with very strict rules on the fisherman, comes tons of money. Tell someone they can't do something, and you would be surprised how many people go and do it.
> Who cares about the stupid fish, money pays the bills, and at the end of the day, the only thing the really matters is the money.
> Sorry poor fish, you really don't matter any more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


And should a lot of recreational fishermen quit fishing the Gulf ... a lot of money is lost to the State and local businesses. More than goes into the economy from commercial Gulf fishing I would expect.

(Freshwater catfish & crappie taste pretty good)


----------



## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (from ya mommas)

We did let it happen and it started with the net ban...I'm not condoning or condemning...govt involvement started way before this but has increased immensely since


----------



## Collard (Oct 23, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (from ya mommas)

We did let it happen and it started with the net ban...I'm not condoning or condemning...govt involvement started way before this but has increased immensely since.


----------



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

What we are now seeing did indeed begin many years ago. It started with the environmental groups such as EDF & Pew infiltrating our government, our fishery. The end result will be catch shares. Want to catch and keep an American red snapper? No Problem! March down to Walmart and buy a 'share...stamp' to do so. There is a very good reason why the Walton foundation, better known as Walmart, has donated over $30,000,000 earmarked for catch shares. Walmart's profit from selling us back our own fish is predicted to be in the billions.


----------



## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

You are correct. I keep thinking to myself that these things that keep coming up to ruin fishing have much more to do with commercial interests than commercial fishermen.


----------



## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

I think you are correct. I was in the fish market this weekend in Orange Beach and snapper was $22.99 a pound, when this crap started in 2007 or so it was $6.99 a pound at Joe Patti's. The commercial fishermen, I would guess, probably sell the fish at close to the same rate now as then. But its the easiest to catch and most prolific fish to in the northern gulf. So...sorry recreational fishermen but piss on you. The fish brokers have paid off Roy and his boys, go catch shellcracker.


----------



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Here is an operation over here off of Texas that is selling "Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experiences" where they have fired their crew that used to catch the fish on their commercial trips and now are marketing them to recreational fishermen to catch the commercial fish.
The captain is dual-permitted, so he can run recreational charter trips and commercial red snapper trips - it looks as though he trying to combine the two;

According to Circle-H Charter's facebook page;
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater



Shayan Ali How much for a day trip of red snapper for two to three ppl
April 18 at 5:31pm · Like

Circle H Outfitters and Charters 150 lbs of red snapper from the fish house $2400, you can pre buy them if you like and not mandatory but priority will be given for catch share fishing experience to those that have already pre boat fish by the fish house. All fish cleaned and bagged by the fish house when you land. The fishing experience on the 36 foot contender is free. Catch multiple
Species. Big fun and lots of fresh fish. 281 535 1930
OK. They are requiring that the customer Pre-purchase 150 pounds of red snapper for $2,400, and the *"Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experience"* is _*"FREE"*_.

That's $16 per pound for whole gutted fish I have to assume, which is the normal M.O. for quantifying commercial catches, right?

I just called Katie's Seafood and they are selling red snapper for $8.50/pound.

If the *"Commercial Catch Shares Fishing Experience"* is _*"FREE"*_, why the extra $7.50/pound (or *$1,125 per trip, or about 1/2 the cost of the fish*)?

Honest question.

One interesting note here is that the fish house is owned by Buddy Guindon - the lead plaintiff on the recent enviro-funded lawsuit that just caused this 11 day red snapper season. Mr. Guindon also just happens to be one of the largest shareholders of red snapper IFQ in the Gulf of Mexico. Is Mr. Guindon leasing quota to Circle-H Charters to be able to go out and fish this quota? If so, what are the financial details of this type of transaction? 

Considering the coming crash of the Texas Charter industry IF they go to a Gulf-wide for-hire IFQ, how does this type of activity play into that scenario? Commercial fat cats leasing commercial quota to charter operations in order to just stay in business?

In this new age of "accountability", the fishing public wants to know. How much $$ is Circle-H Charters making off of these 2 trips/day *"Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experiences"*? Speaking of which, how many commercial red snapper fishermen do you know that go out and make 2 trips per day, bringing home 150 pounds each trip? 

Somehow, I don't think the players in this game want *THAT* type of "accountability". After all, the lawsuit and ALL of this ******** from these guys has REALLY had NOTHING to do with "ACCOUNTABILITY" now has it?


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

*where they have fired their crew that used to catch the fish on their commercial trips and now are marketing them to recreational fishermen to catch the commercial fish.
The captain is dual-permitted, so he can run recreational charter trips and commercial red snapper trips - it looks as though he trying to combine the two

Is Mr. Guindon leasing quota to Circle-H Charters to be able to go out and fish this quota? If so, what are the financial details of this type of transaction? *

Once again I have to go behind Hilton to get his facts that he spreads somewhat true. 

He has fired no one. He only has a commercial permit on his boat so he's not duel permitted. HE OWNES THE QUOTA!!


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

How much is that quota going for? What's the name of Mr. Buddy business?


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

I think Scott paid about $40 bucks a pound, give or take a dollar. He put forth a major investment to keep taking his customers fishing, working the system. His investment for the fish is about twice the investment of his 36 contender with three 300s on the back.


----------



## Mike P (Apr 20, 2014)

Let's face it guys this country has become about the haves and have not's and people are classified not by what they have but by perception. Look at it this way, what sells in the mainstream media is not a bunch of so called rich boat owner but the commercial fishermen who's trying to make a living.I'm not in anyway putting these guys down because I do admire them and appericiate their hard work to support their families like we all do. But what the government fails to realize is that the guy that buys a boat for recreational fishing pays a huge sum of money which in turns supports other families. Example, marina staff, fuel dock labor, boat detailers, mechanics, supply stores and the list goes on and on. It's called trickle down economics! Take away the recocreational fishermen and see the unemployment grow in these coastal towns.

It's real no different than Obama care for all practical purposes. I grew up and fished around commercial fishermen my entire life and can real say they are the hardest workers I have ever known. This is not about them but rather our government and the direction it is going.


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

So for 200lbs of quota your looking at 8k. I would be happy with 50lbs of quota.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

*He has fired no one. He only has a commercial permit on his boat so he's not duel permitted. HE OWNES THE QUOTA!!*


See guys its like this, the major problem I have with Thomas Hilton is that he loves to "gather" as much information on the internet forums to make his point, really doesn't matter if its true or not. I guess he really doesn't have to be %100 true if you get your fishery management information from internet forums. See my attacks agains Mr Hilton AKA Mullett wearing Bong Head, are for this reason and this reason only. He loves to spread mis-information across the board to all forums true or not, he loves to make up what ever context he wants. Unless your as informed as someone like myself on the whole process going on you would have no idea and he looks like a hero to the common folk. I beg you guys and I always have to get informed, get educated, and make your own decisions on this whole process and read through these so properly laid out presentations that Mr Hilton loves to spill all over the web, that at the most has about half truths told.


----------



## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

bakbone said:


> How much is that quota going for? What's the name of Mr. Buddy business?


Weren't you saying that a commercial crew member has to have a twic card...is that true?


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Weren't you saying that a commercial crew member has to have a twic card...is that true?


No just for a Captains license. My deckhands don't need a TWIC card. You know you don't have to have a Captains license to run a commercial boat or to commercial fish. So really no TWIC card in this scenario at all.


----------



## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> No just for a Captains license. My deckhands don't need a TWIC card. You know you don't have to have a Captains license to run a commercial boat or to commercial fish. So really no TWIC card in this scenario at all.




So if I have a florida restricted saltwater species seafood permit and I find commercial shares of red snapper to lease what is stopping me from fishing for and selling red snapper, only the commercial permt for my boat?


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

Nothing! All you need is a valid PL with endorsement + FRP + IFQ. Not sure about permit for boat, but don't think so.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Gator McKlusky said:


> So if I have a florida restricted saltwater species seafood permit and I find commercial shares of red snapper to lease what is stopping me from fishing for and selling red snapper, only the commercial permt for my boat?


What you have and a commercial reef fish permit. Then lease or buy shares. You can lease them for $2.50 to $3.00 a pound. Just yesterday there was 3000 pounds for sale on craigslist for $45 dollars a pound, but I think the price is around $38, $40.


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> What you have and a commercial reef fish permit. Then lease or buy shares. You can lease them for $2.50 to $3.00 a pound. Just yesterday there was 3000 pounds for sale on craigslist for $45 dollars a pound, but I think the price is around $38, $40.


Yeah the problem is getting the FRP


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

bakbone said:


> Yeah the problem is getting the FRP


I can get you one. If nothing else just to lease.


----------



## bakbone (Dec 18, 2012)

Yes I would be very interested!!


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> *He has fired no one. He only has a commercial permit on his boat so he's not duel permitted. HE OWNES THE QUOTA!!*
> 
> 
> See guys its like this, the major problem I have with Thomas Hilton is that he loves to "gather" as much information on the internet forums to make his point, really doesn't matter if its true or not. I guess he really doesn't have to be %100 true if you get your fishery management information from internet forums. See my attacks agains Mr Hilton AKA Mullett wearing Bong Head, are for this reason and this reason only. He loves to spread mis-information across the board to all forums true or not, he loves to make up what ever context he wants. Unless your as informed as someone like myself on the whole process going on you would have no idea and he looks like a hero to the common folk. I beg you guys and I always have to get informed, get educated, and make your own decisions on this whole process and read through these so properly laid out presentations that Mr Hilton loves to spill all over the web, that at the most has about half truths told.


 Fairwater most of us already know what is fixing to happen. All the fishermen from N.East have been warning us for a long time as to what is going to take place here in the Gulf. Here is living proof article from a year ago. We are already there. Many of us have been posting for several years as to what happened to them. It was the ole that will never happen here . Guess What? It's here and it's happening and we better salvage what we can if we still can. 

Fairwater what makes you think you are not going to be a piece of the pie eventually? What sets you apart here in the Gulf from the charter fishermen from up North? These guys have already warned you. 

Seriously what is so special about you that sets you apart from them?


http://www.gloucestertimes.com/fishing/x1525015376/Fed-IG-auditing-NOAA-policies


----------



## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> *He has fired no one. He only has a commercial permit on his boat so he's not duel permitted. HE OWNES THE QUOTA!!*
> 
> 
> See guys its like this, the major problem I have with Thomas Hilton is that he loves to "gather" as much information on the internet forums to make his point, really doesn't matter if its true or not. I guess he really doesn't have to be %100 true if you get your fishery management information from internet forums. See my attacks agains Mr Hilton AKA Mullett wearing Bong Head, are for this reason and this reason only. He loves to spread mis-information across the board to all forums true or not, he loves to make up what ever context he wants. Unless your as informed as someone like myself on the whole process going on you would have no idea and he looks like a hero to the common folk. I beg you guys and I always have to get informed, get educated, and make your own decisions on this whole process and read through these so properly laid out presentations that Mr Hilton loves to spill all over the web, that at the most has about half truths told.


I have met Tom Hilton and have no reason to doubt him, he has a passion for the marine world as well as a business to run so he has a vested interest to keep the rec world informed. You i have not met so i can not say the same, and you have a vested interest in the commercial sector. You and Tom have differing viewpoints and i tend to put more faith in his leadership.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

The LaJess II said:


> Fairwater most of us already know what is fixing to happen. All the fishermen from N.East have been warning us for a long time as to what is going to take place here in the Gulf. Here is living proof article from a year ago. We are already there. Many of us have been posting for several years as to what happened to them. It was the ole that will never happen here . Guess What? It's here and it's happening and we better salvage what we can if we still can.
> 
> Fairwater what makes you think you are not going to be a piece of the pie eventually? What sets you apart here in the Gulf from the charter fishermen from up North? These guys have already warned you.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

tbaxl said:


> I have met Tom Hilton and have no reason to doubt him, he has a passion for the marine world as well as a business to run so he has a vested interest to keep the rec world informed. You i have not met so i can not say the same, and you have a vested interest in the commercial sector. You and Tom have differing viewpoints and i tend to put more faith in his leadership.



Good for you. Glad you get your information from one person. Hope his pipe dreams work out for ya. For me I dig way deeper. I'm active, and actually participate in the whole process, from gulf council meetings to DC. I will be a part of my future.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> The LaJess II said:
> 
> 
> > Fairwater most of us already know what is fixing to happen. All the fishermen from N.East have been warning us for a long time as to what is going to take place here in the Gulf. Here is living proof article from a year ago. We are already there. Many of us have been posting for several years as to what happened to them. It was the ole that will never happen here . Guess What? It's here and it's happening and we better salvage what we can if we still can.
> ...


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

I am for %100 sector Seporation for the CFH. I feel the private rec will get regional management, I fully support that, then you guys can work with your state on the type management that works best for you. I'm working for what's best for us. I suggest you do the same.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I am for %100 sector Seporation for the CFH. I feel the private rec will get regional management, I fully support that, then you guys can work with your state on the type management that works best for you. I'm working for what's best for us. I suggest you do the same.


 Dang, how stupid was it of me not to go to the Dept. of Business and Professional Regulations when the housing market collapsed and not demand that they give me special treatment because I have been making a living for 30 years plus as a General Contractor.

I should have just thrown all my peers under the bus and demanded that they have a cease and desist of any General Contractors that has not been in business for that length of time because there is a Shortage of Homes Being Built. 

When a big portion of us on this forum were loosing our businesses, employees, and homes the last thing we all were thinking about was how to bring the Government in to save us. We all have stuck it out and a lot of us are coming back and we are coming back strong.

You know why that is? We believe in our God, family and our friends and not selling our souls out to the devil just to make a buck.

To all of the Capt.’s that see through this BS I commend you for sticking to your values.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

The LaJess II said:


> Dang, how stupid was it of me not to go to the Dept. of Business and Professional Regulations when the housing market collapsed and not demand that they give me special treatment because I have been making a living for 30 years plus as a General Contractor.
> 
> I should have just thrown all my peers under the bus and demanded that they have a cease and desist of any General Contractors that has not been in business for that length of time because there is a Shortage of Homes Being Built.
> 
> ...



Cool deal, yea the economic crash kinda hurt us all. You guys kinda need to face the facts. The CFH are organized and we know what we want. We are not going anywhere and we make a difference. This you will see when this all shakes out in a few years, and you may find that you have not lost a thing and we have not thrown anyone under any bus. It took the CFH several years to get on the same page and get industry support for a single idea. As I see it right now the private rec is going in all directions with no decent representation, everyone playing the blame game, and whining about 2 year pilot programs while you still have a 52 day snapper season. Hey look I do support regional management so at least you will be dealing with your state officials and that will be a lot easier to lobby for what you want and need. We all are headed full force into a fully accountable fish management plan, ways of doing business is about to change. A lot of people on here really need to under stand this, the good ole days of raping and pillaging are just about over.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Cool deal, yea the economic crash kinda hurt us all. You guys kinda need to face the facts. The CFH are organized and we know what we want. We are not going anywhere and we make a difference. This you will see when this all shakes out in a few years, and you may find that you have not lost a thing and we have not thrown anyone under any bus. It took the CFH several years to get on the same page and get industry support for a single idea. As I see it right now the private rec is going in all directions with no decent representation, everyone playing the blame game, and whining about 2 year pilot programs while you still have a 52 day snapper season. Hey look I do support regional management so at least you will be dealing with your state officials and that will be a lot easier to lobby for what you want and need. We all are headed full force into a fully accountable fish management plan, ways of doing business is about to change. A lot of people on here really need to under stand this, the good ole days of raping and pillaging are just about over.


 What I don't understand is you don't acknowledge what is happening here has already happened in other parts of the USA and you think you are going to fair better. Same scenario and outcome will be the same. Like I've asked over and over what makes it's any different for you? 
What you keep saying is like a role out of play script. All over USA where EDF and PEW are involved all you Capt.'s repeat the same thing as you wrote above pretty much word for word. 

Peace out for tonight.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

The LaJess II said:


> What I don't understand is you don't acknowledge what is happening here has already happened in other parts of the USA and you think you are going to fair better. Same scenario and outcome will be the same. Like I've asked over and over what makes it's any different for you?
> What you keep saying is like a role out of play script. All over USA where EDF and PEW are involved all you Capt.'s repeat the same thing as you wrote above pretty much word for word.
> 
> Peace out for tonight.


For the guys that wanted to be successful the commercial IFQ red snapper sector is a full success. You can not deny this. The Commercial businessmen that got involved in the process and took the risk are very successful today. The CHF IFQ will be set up a little different pushing more caps and rules to where just a few people can not take over the system, were working on these ideas now. We the fishermen are developing the system not the EDF, there will be several work shops and the whole system will be hashed out over the next couple of years. The CFH guys that don't get involved, well it will be there own fault if its something that they don't like. This is not the north east, and this is not cod, and this is not a northeast commercial IFQ were building. We have the ability of looking at different IFQ systems from all over the world and make ours better, doing the good things and not doing the bad.


----------



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Tom Ard goes on other internet forums under the alias Tin Foil Hat - apparently he feels that what he has to say is not something he wants to put his name behind. Then he resorts to name-calling and insults because he can't stand on the merits of his argument.

If Hickman is going out on a commercial trip, you are saying Ard that he catches all the snapper himself? Most commercial fishing operations have 3 deckhands hired to catch the fish. These dude trips replace the deckhands with paying customers. Talk about misinformation.

I have offered many solutions over the years - The Texas Great Barrier Reef (I can document when/where I came up with it despite Hickman's lies to the contrary), The OFS Permit Plan, and more recently, the Fishing License Barcode Scanning method (that, BTW, provides more accountability than ANY catch share scam on the table). So, in essence, Hickman is lying again - I have spent a great deal time and effort in providing possible solutions to this mess.

*Now, if they go to a Texas Charterboat Cooperative where they apportion the fish to this cooperative based on the same parameters that they did for the Alabama Charterboat Cooperative, then Texas Charterboat Captains will get somewhere around 300 pounds of red snapper PER YEAR. That's what Hickman is bringing in PER DAY right now on his boat.
*
What will happen to the rest of Texas recreational fishermen? I hear the Plan is to go to a lottery-style fish tag system kinda like Western Elk or Florida Gator. What a joke.

Lastly, I had a guy PM me this morning and wanted me to ask this;
*"tom ask hickman this ? and keep asking it DID YOU SCOTT HICKMAN HEAD OF THE SOS IN A PRIVATE ROOM CONVERSATION TELL CERTAIN CHARTER VESSEL CAPTAINS THAT YOU ARE CLOSE WITH TO "STICK WITH ME ON THIS SOS PROGRAM" AND I WILL GET "US" A PILOT PROGRAM FOR "US" TO GO CATCH SNAPPER ON PAID CHARTERS WHILE EVERYONE ELSE SITS AT THE DOCK ASK THAT mf THAT!!!!!! 
*
Looks like there are some Texas charter captains who don't agree with what Hickman is doing here.


----------



## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> For the guys that wanted to be successful the commercial IFQ red snapper sector is a full success. You can not deny this. The Commercial businessmen that got involved in the process and took the risk are very successful today. The CHF IFQ will be set up a little different pushing more caps and rules to where just a few people can not take over the system, were working on these ideas now. We the fishermen are developing the system not the EDF, there will be several work shops and the whole system will be hashed out over the next couple of years. The CFH guys that don't get involved, well it will be there own fault if its something that they don't like. This is not the north east, and this is not cod, and this is not a northeast commercial IFQ were building. We have the ability of looking at different IFQ systems from all over the world and make ours better, doing the good things and not doing the bad.


Fair, I am not necessarily against you as I work in an industry thar is full of government regulation so in many ways I am used to it and realize the outcome will be what others say it will be. I do/did see no reason for the personal attacks that you have thrown around, Tom Hilton may be getting some information off the net as do I, but your counter attacks are strictly he said as well, as far as I can tell. Lighten up and good luck, I hope it works out for you, in the end we will all get something but who know what it will be and I certainly hope a few years down the road I do not see someone say (I told you so).


----------

