# The Judge



## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

I was thinking about buying a Judge. I want someting to wear on my side the weekends I spend at the hunting camp. I like it for peace of mind while I'm going to and from my stand. The 410 buckshot and sluges I know packs some punch.

Anyone own one? Any feedback would be great. Al's Pawn here in Pace has them for under $500.00 brand new.


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## PaulBoydenCustoms (Dec 3, 2008)

I have one and I love it, lots of fun and one hell of a weapon


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## ZombieKiller (Jul 26, 2010)

I've got the Public Defender in stainless. Love it. Have carried it for snakes for a year, and never seen one. Last weekend, was changing out cards in the trail cams, and had a 5 footer roll darn near across my feet. Of course, the Judge was at home. But the Mark I did the trick. 

Anyways, I'm sure with some #4 or 6 shot, a snake would be minced meat at 5 yards. And with the 000 buck, i'm sure and home intruder would wish they'd picked a different home to invade.


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## T140 (Nov 20, 2007)

I have the stainless Public Defender and carry it exclusively at the hunting lease with #4 shot. Haven't had to use it but I am very pleased to have it with me and with fit and finish. Check more than one shop before buying.


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback. I had my mind made up to buy one but it's nice to get feedback from someone who owns one. It has all the qualities of a great truck gun as well as a hunting camp gun. I could not think of a better choice of weapon to end a car jacker's carrer than 000 buck shot!!


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

I have 2

my advice is to get a long barrel for power and range.
a Magnum with a long barrel is better.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

I'd personally pick a 44 Magnum instead of the Judge. You can use shot shells, Specials, or full power Magnum loads for all of the same uses as a Judge with .410 or 45 Long Colt.

I've got a nice one right here for sale:

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f68/wts-s-w-29-5-classic-dx-5-barrel-lnib-rare-99777/



I've never understood the attraction to the .410 / .45 Long Colt thing... There are better shotguns on the market and better 45 Long Colt revolvers on the market. Shooting a shotgun shell out of a short rifled barrel causes rapid spread of the shot pattern at any over near contact distance -- a huge liability in my opinion. Shooting .410 shotgun slugs out of a 3" barreled revolver makes absolutely zero sense.

If I want to go "scattergun" with a hand-held firearm, I'll spend a little bit more for this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260710167

The tax stamp is only $5...

You can even get a nifty holster rig for it:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260697637


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## floorguy (Jul 22, 2011)

have the judge tactical has a rail on the end for light or whatever and is ported paid 500 at academy.


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

The Judge is way over-hyped as a defensive firearm. First of all it's a compromise firearm. The .410 loadings in such a short barrel even with buckshot fail to meet the 12 inch minimum penetration standards set by the FBI. Also, the accuracy of the 45LC rounds suffer due to the long cylinder length needed to accommodate the .410 clambering. Compounding this is that in order to comply with NFA laws the rifling is made shallow which makes buckshot fly in an doughnut pattern at range and doesn't give enough twist for the .45LC.

I also question Taurus's logic in creating versions made for concealed carry. The Judge is way too large and the recoil is quite stout, especially in lightweight versions. Other than as a snake gun or a fun gun I would never want one nor bet my life on a Judge.


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks Scuba and Gravity for pointing out the cons. Maybe I should have clarified the use of the gun. I want a under $500.00 truck gun that can get beat up, that can be effective under 10' of distance. I did like your 44 Scuba, but that's not what I'm in the market for. I would never want to take it out of my gun safe because it's so nice. I like wearing a weapon on my side at the hunting camp, because we have some large rattle snakes. This 410 blast would be perfect for that. 

I agree HisName, I am going to get the long barrel because I have 3 other conceal guns I carry. I don't need another one. I want a open carry.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

An NAA MiniMag with CCI shotshells would be much more comfortable (only 5 ounces!) to carry as a snake gun. Just a couple hundred bucks too...


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

dont rule out the Judge so easy . I carry three #6 Magnums and two of these

Caliber: 45 Colt Plus P
Bullet Wt.: 265gr CORBON Hunter BCHP
Velocity: 1200fps
Energy: 848ftlbs
Test Barrel Length: 7.5 Inches

http://www.shopcorbon.com/CORBON-Hu...CORBON-Hunter-BCHP/HT45C265BHP-20/300/Product


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

HisName said:


> I have 2
> 
> my advice is to get a long barrel for power and range.
> a Magnum with a long barrel is better.


 
*I agree too. I have the Public Defender and I wish I would have got the long barrel magnum. I'm never gonna use it for CCW and had originaly bought it for my wife as a car/purse gun but she wanted a Glock 45 so I'm stuck with it. It is fun and definitely dissagree that it's not fit for home defense. I have shot all kinds of stuff with all kinds of the rounds you can shoot out of the gun and have been happy with the pure damage it causes. The longer barrel and wheel are for sure the way to go. More accurate and more power and if your carrying it on your side at the camp who cares about 3 more inches of pipe?*

*Oh and just FYI $500 is getting raped for any model of the gun. I got mine NIB for just around $300 out the door.*


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

*This is funny right here. $1500, this is a joke BTW . It's not real. Photoshoped.*

The Tactical Operator Judge will include from the factory the accessories you see at the left; a Viridian laser module, fiber optic front sight, and an Aimpoint Micro. The top strap of the revolver will have an integral rail system to mount the Aimpoint, or you’d like to upgrade to an ACOG that will be supported as well.
The Tactical Operator is designed as an offensive handgun, much like the HK Mk23. With a loaded weight of 6.5 pounds and a size just slightly smaller than a Buick, the Tactical Operator would be a suitable replacement for your AR or shotgun as a primary weapon system. Available in 2011 with an MSRP of $1500, the TTO will replace all the guns in your safe in one convenient weapons system!


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## pcola4 (Apr 13, 2009)

*love it*

I have the stainless judge and a friend has the magnum. Their not made for shooting competition but they are great for self defense and will blow a snake in little bitty pieces.....my favorite part......


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Great Discussion on this weapon. I looked around today and Academy has the bet price on the 3'' barrel at $450.00. Buck and Bass was $555.00. I did look at the S&W Govenor. It will shoot 45ACP as well as the long colt and 410. Academy is out of stock but Bob said they should have some in soon. This is the way I may decide to go. I got 500 rounds of ACP that I need to shoot. The price was only like $578.00.


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## Connor_Sarah (Jun 1, 2011)

Cheaper Than Dirt has a 3" barrel for $391.99. After shipping and dealer fees you might be about the same as Academy.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=17251


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## Fanner50 (Oct 25, 2011)

TURTLE said:


> *This is funny right here. $1500, this is a joke BTW . It's not real. Photoshoped.*
> 
> The Tactical Operator Judge will include from the factory the accessories you see at the left; a Viridian laser module, fiber optic front sight, and an Aimpoint Micro. The top strap of the revolver will have an integral rail system to mount the Aimpoint, or you’d like to upgrade to an ACOG that will be supported as well.
> The Tactical Operator is designed as an offensive handgun, much like the HK Mk23. With a loaded weight of 6.5 pounds and a size just slightly smaller than a Buick, the Tactical Operator would be a suitable replacement for your AR or shotgun as a primary weapon system. Available in 2011 with an MSRP of $1500, the TTO will replace all the guns in your safe in one convenient weapons system!


Gotta love it. Green laser too. When will the stainless version come out. 

Yes, i read the post and know that it's Photoshopped. It was just too funny not to reply to.:thumbup:


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Just Askin'*

Does anybody else besides me have a "problem" with using a multi projectile,short barrel,especially not being a smooth barrel, and/or without a constrictive choke,and having adaquate sights for close range SD..........for close range SD ???

I see all kinds of possibilities for serious bystander injury, shooting this gun. EVEN with the buckshot load. You guys with these guns do me a favor. Put up a large sheet of cardboard,put a orange aiming dot in the center,back off to 15yds and shoot it. Enhance the bird shot impacts with a red marker. Post your gun,load,and a picture for the world to see. 

I have seen these pics before(so don't fudge the distance)but it might just 
"enlighten" some of the subscribers hereabouts. Also allow the BG to return fire,save an innocent bystander,and save the 3" barrel,rifled shotgun shooter, from a lawsuit that could devastate him and his entire family. 

Now.....for totein' around the club,shootin' snakes,well...?...maybe.

Respectfully......where have I gone wrong here ??? --- SAWMAN


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

SAWMAN,

I'm right there with you - but for some reason the "love affair" some folks have with this concept is what sold enough of the Taurus models - that S&W had to jump on the band wagon themselves. To watch S&W copy Taurus made me question if there was now ice water available in the infernal regions?

I've voiced my opinion on the firearm, and its limitations as well - but it isn't goin to sway those who just have to "have one". But then, many would question why I choose to carry 10mm Auto for self defense -- or hunt hogs with a 50 Beowulf too I suppose...

The only positive trait that I can see with the Judge (or Governor) is that it is a firearm -- and the more firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens, the better!

I'll stick to my regular sidearm for self defense -- as well as a little 5 ounce NAA MiniMag for the snake work...


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Yeah.....Kinda*

Hope nobody takes this the wrong way....carry whatever you feel that you need to carry to get the "job" done. As long as you have thought it through and weighed the good as well as the bads. We are all grow ups here so I would hate to think that the (may I say)well done adds from Taurus would sway anybody's decision making ability of the best "tool". 

The add where the lady in the car shoots the BG(a "shoot and see" or Orange Peel type of target)(remember how they were designed)when he trys to stick his head in the passengers side window is a great one. We need to remember that her target is <4feet distant. I suspect in the brain pan with my 10mm/135gr or my 357SIG/124gr would cause even more damage to the BG, but probably not visibly to the Orange Peel target.

With this stated, I probably should state exactly what I want to accomplish in re. to a personal attack from a perp/BG, that has the intent and the weapon, to do me physical harm. 
1. I DO NOT want to shoot anyone. I DO NOT want to do bodily harm to anyone.
2. I want to protect myself and my family against all threats of bodily/physical harm.
3.I will use the best tool available to accomplish #2.
4.I want to stop the perp as quickly as possible from ALL aggression towards me and my family. 
5. When the aggression stops, the use of deadly force will IMMEDIATELY be stopped by me.
6. BUT......as long as ANY(!) type of aggression is directed towards myself and my family,I will continue to use all the deadly force that is available to me.

With this I say....who here REALLY feels that a BG intent in doing us bodily harm,armed with a weapon that is capable of killing us,will be immediately stopped with a load of soft lead #6 shot that totals less than.......actually I don't know,how heavy is a load from a 2 1/2" .410 ??? ANYONE ???

Lets all stay safe out there. --- SAWMAN


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

SAWMAN said:


> Hope nobody takes this the wrong way....carry whatever you feel that you need to carry to get the "job" done. As long as you have thought it through and weighed the good as well as the bads. We are all grow ups here so I would hate to think that the (may I say)well done adds from Taurus would sway anybody's decision making ability of the best "tool".
> 
> The add where the lady in the car shoots the BG(a "shoot and see" or Orange Peel type of target)(remember how they were designed)when he trys to stick his head in the passengers side window is a great one. We need to remember that her target is <4feet distant. I suspect in the brain pan with my 10mm/135gr or my 357SIG/124gr would cause even more damage to the BG, but probably not visibly to the Orange Peel target.
> 
> ...


*The 410 loads I have in my Judge have 2 copper disc's 1 9mm copper ball and 6 00 buck balls. IMO thats some serious mess to clean up in any situation. And when you factor in the scared female aspect you don't have to be the best shot in the world to keep safe.*


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but where is the Mall Ninja when we need him?

It sounds to me Getsome thought about what kind of weapon he wanted to use for a purpose. Sounds like it fits to me. Didn't sound like it was intended as a primary SD gun. 

Can anyone give some first hand knowledge what it feels like to get shot in the face from 4' away? How did it feel to you? Did you still attack your intended victim?

How far away are you going to shoot a "perp" and still claim self defense? Not sure 15 yards is going to cut it. Ever go fishing for AJ with a cane pole?

Sounds like a good fit to me Getsome. Again, hope nobody takes this the wrong way!


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

lastcast said:


> I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but where is the Mall Ninja when we need him?
> 
> It sounds to me Getsome thought about what kind of weapon he wanted to use for a purpose. Sounds like it fits to me. Didn't sound like it was intended as a primary SD gun.
> 
> ...


this is a nicer way to say exactly what i was thinking. agreed on all points.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

TURTLE said:


> *The 410 loads I have in my Judge have 2 copper disc's 1 9mm copper ball and 6 00 buck balls. IMO thats some serious mess to clean up in any situation. And when you factor in the scared female aspect you don't have to be the best shot in the world to keep safe.*


Uh, I believe those would be 6 pellets of BBs or smaller at best. 2 3/4" 12ga. Shotgun Shells usually have 9 OO Buck projectiles...

I'm a good shot - I'll stick with the 10mm. As for snakes, my wife blew a large water moccasin in half with ONE round from my HK P7M13 at 8 feet...1 round by an inexperienced shooter who took her time, focused on the front sight and squeezed the trigger.

Why worry about shot placement or collateral damage - when you can get the best marketing hype that money can buy in the form of a handheld compromise scattergun by the renouned Taurus International?? :thumbsup:

Like most guns - the Judges and Governors will continue to sell, and sell well -- but used (shot) very little. If it works for you - it is better than a big stick!


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

scubapro said:


> SAWMAN,
> 
> I'm right there with you - but for some reason the "love affair" some folks have with this concept is what sold enough of the Taurus models - that S&W had to jump on the band wagon themselves. To watch S&W copy Taurus made me question if there was now ice water available in the infernal regions?
> 
> ...


*I got one of those NAA .22 mags and it's a squeirly little bastard. As far as the Judge, too each his/her own. It shoots fine and does the job.*


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

At this range - I could do the same thing with the NAA MiniMag...





 
Sorry, I'm not impressed with the Judge...


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

SAWMAN,

I this clearly illustrates the target results you were asking for earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=WGC1ajqSJGo&NR=1

Again, I am not impressed...


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

scubapro said:


> Uh, I believe those would be 6 pellets of BBs or smaller at best. 2 3/4" 12ga. Shotgun Shells usually have 9 OO Buck projectiles...
> 
> I'm a good shot - I'll stick with the 10mm. As for snakes, my wife blew a large water moccasin in half with ONE round from my HK P7M13 at 8 feet...1 round by an inexperienced shooter who took her time, focused on the front sight and squeezed the trigger.
> 
> ...


this reminds me of when frank hammers you for being a DB fan. except now you're playing the role of frank. 

to frank - no offense, sir! this is no way intended to be a shot at you. just making a comparison.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

K-Bill said:


> this reminds me of frank hammers you for being a DB fan. except now you're playing the role of frank.


Except that my DB9 works -- and here's what I did with the first 6 rounds downrange at self defense distance of 7 yards, standing slow-fire...










And here is rounds 101-200 of my 200 round break-in session at 7 yards, standing slow-fire...










That same DB9 has 600+ trouble-free rounds downrange now. Given the results in the two photos, I'd say that I've proven its effectiveness as a deep cover self defense firearm.

If someone wishes to post their target photos of a Judge Public Defender fired at 7 yards -- I'd love to see them!

:yes:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

And, just to see how much the group opened up when fired as fast as I could reload and shoot -- here are rounds 7-100 fired at 7 yards, standing rapid-fire...










Anyone can shoot like this - you just need the proper instruction and practice (You should see what can be done with an HK P7M8!). My sig line is where to get such instruction - think of the money invested in the training as being life insurance for you and your loved ones. For the cost of your Judge - you can get a 3-day Tactical Handgun 101 Course under Randy Cain. He starts from the very basics -- but at the end of day two, you'll be consistently making headshots on the move.

As I said, I'll stick with my regular 10mmAuto sidearm and pocket the little 5 ounce NAA MiniMag for snakes when needed.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

I will not be joy shooting during deer season but out of curiosity , where are the pictures of a Magnum Judge with 9 1/2 " barrel shooting targets?

I have never even read a report on this gun that Taurus does not have for commercial sell or has ever had one on their web site for sell.

not trying to argue but i find it humerus to have formed opinions from those who have never shot this particular weapon.

I will surely go heads up with the NNA mini mag Snake shot at the range of your choosing but 45 Feet away is not what the Judge was made for with snake shot.

I have flipped snakes at a respectable range and the #6 shot tears them up , then can the next shot have 848 Foot pounds of energy with the 45 Colt which groups very nicely.

what other handgun can do that? where can I buy I better hand gun that can Fire Magnum Shotgun Shells and then a powerful big bore round with the next triger pull

this is like a Ford / Chevy thread. those who do not own one will tell everyone who does have one and like it why they are no good.
:thumbup:


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

scubapro I bet you shot that with one shot from a Judge:thumbsup:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

HisName said:


> I have flipped snakes at a respectable range and the #6 shot tears them up , then can the next shot have 848 Foot pounds of energy with the 45 Colt which groups very nicely.
> 
> what other handgun can do that? where can I buy I better hand gun that can Fire Magnum Shotgun Shells and then a powerful big bore round with the next triger pull


 
My Dan Wesson Model 744 can do that - tear up a snake with a CCI 44 Magnum Shotshell (#9 shot), then drop the hammer on one of these that produces 1,649 ftlbs of energy for that infamous Bear attack in the Florida woods...

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=54

Plus, I get 6 shots instead of 5 -- and, I can change my barrel from 8 inch to 4 inch in about 2 minutes!










So, apples to apples - I think the 44 Magnum is the more sensible way to go if you want to do both jobs from the same handgun. 

If we're not going to use the same handgun for both jobs - the little 5 ounce NAA Mini in my pocket for snakes -- along with my Glock 20SF (with 6" KKM barrel) loaded up with 15+1 rounds of these producing 750 ftlbs of energy is the better option against 2 or 4-legged predators in the field.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=105

That's five shots for the snakes - and 16 powerful rounds for the bad guys or critters with teeth & claws for about the same weight as a similar length barrel Judge - without performing a reload. I know what I'm going to pick! :yes:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

HisName said:


> scubapro I bet you shot that with one shot from a Judge:thumbsup:


Naw, the spread is too tight to come from a Judge...:no:


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

LOL 
This is kinda like a Gym Class Pull in High School:thumbup:

the old Colt can pump out more , that as soft. and still beat your rat shot!
I still think anything I hit with 848 FtLbs will leave me alone , plus I can shoot rabbits when I jump them , the Judge rules!


45 Colt +P
1998 FtLbs
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=253



Caliber: 45 Colt Plus P
Bullet Wt.: 300gr CORBON Hunter JSP
Velocity: 1300fps
Energy: 1126ftlbs
Test Barrel Length: 7.5 Inches
http://www.shopcorbon.com/CORBON-Hu...-CORBON-Hunter-JSP/HT45C300JSP-20/300/Product


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

You forgot to read the fine print on that Buffalo Bore 45 Long Colt +P load...



> So, use this ammo ONLY in ALL LARGE FRAME RUGERS, (i.e. Black Hawks, all Red Hawk iterations chambered in 454 Casull and 45 Colt, and pre 2006 Vaqueros) Colt Anaconda, all FA revolvers chambered in 454 Casull and 45 Colt and Dan Wesson revolvers, Winchester and Marlin mod. 1894, all falling block actions made of modern steel, TC Encore and the Handi Rifle.


So, try shooting it in the Judge -- and possibly watch your hand disappear! If it is too hot for an N-frame S&W - it is too hot for a Taurus Judge!

Even the Buffalo Bore 44 Magnum load I referenced is too hot for N-frame S&W 44 magnums...thus, why I chose my Dan Wesson, as it is ok for that revolver.


As for the rat shot -- how dead does the snake need to be? At snake range, the 44 magnum shotshell will do just fine (as would the 22 Magnum out of the NAA MniMag)

The 44 Magnum remains more sensible for the intended purpose.  You've already invested in a Judge - so I don't expect you to change your position. But, for anyone sitting on the fence about pulling the trigger on buying a Judge (especially a short barreled one) - maybe I've made enough fact based posts to cause them to make a better firearm investment.

The combination of the NAA MiniMag & the Glock 20SF as a woods carry rig makes even more sense to me! :yes:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

HisName said:


> 45 Colt +P
> 1998 FtLbs
> http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=253


Actually, the referenced load only produces 1124 ftlbs at 1500 fps. So, my 44 Magnum Heavy load leaves your 45 Long Colt in the dust!

OK, I'm finished being right -- so I'll not be like the Monty Pyton French soldiers and "taunt you some more, silly English K-nighit!"


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

scubapro said:


> Actually, the referenced load only produces 1124 ftlbs at 1500 fps. So, my 44 Magnum Heavy load leaves your 45 Long Colt in the dust!
> 
> OK, I'm finished being right -- so I'll not be like the Monty Pyton French soldiers and "taunt you some more, silly English K-nighit!"


 
LOL , So it ends. Mine will shoot them Dead and yours will shoot them Deader with the single projectile , but I claim victory on the shot load :thumbsup:


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*I Hear'ed.........*

........that somebody was coming out with a 28ga revo. What ever happened to that ....OR....was I just dreaming ???? --- SAWMAN


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

SAWMAN said:


> ........that somebody was coming out with a 28ga revo. What ever happened to that ....OR....was I just dreaming ???? --- SAWMAN


I held one at Uber's that was ordered for a customer.
it is huge and heavy . I wouldn't want to wag it around on my land in a holster like I do my Magnum Judge.

I don't need more Snake gun and I don't need more power than the 45 colt. JMO

It was very impressive looking but I changed my mind about wanting one when it was in my hand


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm surprized that the BATFE allowed that one to make it to production. Wouldn't a 28ga. Slug be greater than .50 inches in diameter? I thought .50 caliber was the legal limit for a handgun cartridge in the USA...


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## Connor_Sarah (Jun 1, 2011)

Maybe a little off topic, but speaking of a longer barrel for The Judge, this is my latest purchase. Mostly for home defense, my roommate does not like large caliber guns and will not go anywhere near a 12ga shotgun. I wanted something I felt she would be comfortable using but not have to aim well. And of course thought it would be fun for me! Have not taken to the range yet, but can't wait!


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

scubapro said:


> I'm surprized that the BATFE allowed that one to make it to production. Wouldn't a 28ga. Slug be greater than .50 inches in diameter? I thought .50 caliber was the legal limit for a handgun cartridge in the USA...


The 28ga Taurus Raging Judge got initially deemed an SBS, but BATF reversed itself. However, Taurus still hasn't commercially released it. That thing is ridiculously huge and impractical in appearance. I don't understand how it's legal since it only fires 28ga. Maybe they put shallow rifling in just like the .410/45 variants to keep them legal.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

I agree it is huge but Naomi at Ubers Lock and Gun got me my Magnum Judge with 6 1/2" barrel that also is not released to the public and she is the one who ordered the 28 gauge Judge for another customer , she let me handle and look at it.
it is a terrifying looking handgun but I wouldn't have a need for it


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## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

So whats the difference between a regular judge that you are saying is heavy and bulky to your magnum judge 6 1/2' barrel


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

Pinksnappertrapper said:


> So whats the difference between a regular judge that you are saying is heavy and bulky to your magnum judge 6 1/2' barrel











Judge Magnum









28ga Raging Judge


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

All of the Judges are ridiculous and based soley upon marketing hype.... I have no use for any of them!


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

scubapro said:


> All of the Judges are ridiculous and based soley upon marketing hype.... I have no use for any of them!


I think we all know your opinion on them. It's pretty obvious. There is a lot of thinks that I have no use for: Nagants, SKS, semi auto rifles, Zombie killer guns. Just because it doesn't serve a purpose to you doesn't mean they are a bad deal. I've always enjoy your post but the more you beat things like this into the ground the more I just skip them. Having an opinion is one thing and that's what this forum is for but beating your beliefs into other and pretty much writing off their opinion is another.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Splittine said:


> Just because it doesn't serve a purpose to you doesn't mean they are a bad deal.


Yeah, I guess you are right -- we should talk about the validity and use for one of my latest acquisitions:



















The lethality of the .22 Short in a deep hideout revolver that the TSA Body Scanner couldn't pick up - if placed in the right body crevice... sama:

Or, my latest NFA A.O.W. (any other weapon) project:



















Yes, believe it or not - you have to be finger printed, photographed, and pay a tax stamp (at least it is only $5) to the U.S. Justice Department to be able to outfit the little NAA Mini in the "operational wallet holster"... Silly laws, aren't they? :detective:


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

LOL , I would rather carry a Rock , it would have More Ft Lbs of energy and be more acurate :thumbup:


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Just got back from vacation and this thread got long. Scuba, I respect you opinion. But it's like I said, I'm looking for a cheap sidearm for the hunting camp. To beat up and have fun with. I carry a Ruger LCR 38+P under my shirt. I love this gun for my ccw. It is soo light and small and at self protection range (15') I can shoot someone's eye out. I got the crimson Laser for the scare effect. I never want to shoot someone if at all possible, so the laser may help intimidate.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Getsome said:


> I never want to shoot someone if at all possible, so the laser may help intimidate.


This can get you killed or arrested.... If the pistol comes out of the holster in a self defense situation - I'm pulling the trigger. If the trigger doesn't need to be pulled, the pistol should never leave the holster (that doesn't mean you can't be ready to draw).

Just more reasons why I feel that lasers have no place on a self defense firearm - improper use, a false sense of security, and at times a crutch to compensate for a lack of investment in proper training or shooting ability.

Off the soap box... :whistling:


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

scubapro said:


> This can get you killed or arrested.... If the pistol comes out of the holster in a self defense situation
> :whistling:


another reason to carry a rock :thumbup:


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Lack of investment in proper training or shooting ability? We should get together to do A little practice. Sometimes when you don't know who's behind a keyboard, you never really know what their abilities or experience level is.


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## jmsiv (Oct 13, 2011)

While there is a place for the laser, I've never been onboard with them. All of my old-school training was front sight, front sight, front sight...squeeeeeeeze the trigger.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Getsome said:


> Lack of investment in proper training or shooting ability? We should get together to do A little practice. Sometimes when you don't know who's behind a keyboard, you never really know what their abilities or experience level is.


Don't be so quick to take something personal... Most people who buy and intend to rely upon a laser on a self defense handgun have no idea of the device's true limitations - or the physiological aspects of their own body in a true "fight or flight" environment and physical state.

Making a statement that it will be used to intimidate does draw some question of the writer's understanding, training, and experience.

I'd be happy to shoot with anyone - and attempt to pass along some shooting skills to another. I did it just the other day to a stranger at Styx when I was letting Chevelle try out my G29SF to compare with his newly acquired G20.

My targets speak for themselves - and those who have seen me shoot (like Chevelle) will confirm my ability. Am I the best? Hardly & far from it - but I have trained under some of the best, and they have definitely improved my shooting ability over the years.

What I was trying to convey is that many shooters are quick to lay out large sums of cash for the latest pistol with the biggest marketing budget - along with the latest gadgets to mount or hang onto them, but they never make the investment to take a multi-day shooting course under a true professional instructor (not a self proclaimed local hack who has been through only an NRA Instructor class) who has trained under other professionals and/or served on staff at facilities such as Gunsight, Thunder Ranch, etc.

Spending $500+ on a 3-day course, along with ammo expense for 750-1000 rounds in your chosen caliber with a professional instrutor is a much wiser investment than money on pistols whose hype don't justify their reputation as well as "transfer devices" like lasers, etc. that's primary purpose is to transfer money from your wallet to the manufacturer's bank account...

When I decided to carry a firearm 24/7, I decided to include in my budget enough money to attend at least two 3-day courses per year (tuition and ammo) as well as have a range session with my primary carry guns every month. That all adds up to about $3K per year - just for training and ammo - but I feel it is better to do that to carry a $500 Glock than spend thousands on the finest custom 1911 that needs fine tuning just to run ball ammo trouble-free like many of my fellow students at Southern Exposure have chosen to do.

To each his own. If lasers work for you (even though you'll never be able to see it - much less keep it on a moving target in a true fight or flight self defense encounter) - more power to you. :thumbsup:


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## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*My $.02(+)*

scubapro, IMO....you ain't been wrong yet. 

I talk to tons of people that swear by a laser on a handgun for SD/HD. In some instances the laser cost more than the weapon. I figure it is a coolness factor. 

I DO have a LASERMAX on my Glock19 and 20. These are guns that is dedicated to carry when at my hunting clubs or elsewhere. While working in the woods, building shooting houses,setting up ladder stands,ground blinds,baiting,filling feeders,etc,etc. The 19 is a firearm that is intended for critters other than humans. I want to be able to put the red dot on the head of a snake or between the eyes of a boar hog. 

My Glock 20 is a dedicated hunting pistol. It has a 6" bbl and a VIRIDIAN laser mounted on the rail. This gun is for close range hogs and deer. That's it. Nothing else.

Buy and use a laser if you want/need to for SD/HD. Remember also that a laser,like tracers,works both ways. And IMO.....NEVER,EVER,count on a laser for intimidation. It is for targeting only. The commercials are giving you a false sense of security. Get training by others that know more than you .....AND.....practice,practice,practice. Confidence and resolve are your friends. ---- SAWMAN


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Scuba, I never intended to aim with the laser. That is not why I added it to that pistol. I guess it was the coolness factor. If you need a laser to aim, you need training for sure.


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

There's only two reasons why I would use a laser. One for training as in checking trigger control. Two if I had to shoot around a barrier such as a shield were I can't see the front sight.


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