# Firearms Sales Questions



## Liquid Fun (Aug 3, 2009)

I was wondering what others thought about covering yourself when selling firearms especially with all this gun control stuff going on. I was thinking a bill of sale between the buyer and seller is sufficient but didn't know if others had more experience on this and what their thoughts were. 

Also where can a private individual sale a firearm now days? I guess I can see where some sites like this and craigslist are being risk adverse in this litigous society we unfortuntly live in and dont allow but was wondering if you guys knew of any reputable places one can sell a firearm.


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## Seminole1 (Dec 22, 2007)

Gulfcoastgunforum


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

Seminole1 said:


> Gulfcoastgunforum


Carefull, a couple of their moderators are cry babies. 

One thing I like to do with a transaction is take a pic of each others drivers license. If someone has an issue with that than no sale.


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## Seminole1 (Dec 22, 2007)

CHUMM BUCKET said:


> Carefull, a couple of their moderators are cry babies.
> 
> One thing I like to do with a transaction is take a pic of each others drivers license. If someone has an issue with that than no sale.


 I don't understand.


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

I like doing a bill of sale but its kinda like a locked gate. A locked gate only keeps an honest man out. If someone will sign a bill of sale but doesnt want to prove who they say they are then i dont care to do business with them. Gun sales can be a touchy thing. If you are not carefull you can get in some serious trouble.


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## Seminole1 (Dec 22, 2007)

I certainly understand the bill of sale and the driver license. You have to cover your butt. What I did not understand was the comment about their moderators.


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## TinCan (Jul 22, 2012)

I have a firearm bill of sale form, buyer states that he/she is not a felon, no domestic violence, honorable discharge, not a addict, mentally impaired and few other issues. Not an official state form just a bill of sale form that can be used at private sales to protect seller/buyer, place for ID on both D/L address then of course description of gun, with SN#

I just got new system and not sure how to scan and e mail copy yet ,can snail mail a copy to some one and they can post on forum for others to copy someone send me PM with info if interested Tin Can


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

Seminole1 said:


> I certainly understand the bill of sale and the driver license. You have to cover your butt. What I did not understand was the comment about their moderators.


My bad. A couple of them need to grow up a little. It seems that they dont follow their own rules.


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## Connor_Sarah (Jun 1, 2011)

Not that it would be a catch all, but with the background check required for a concealed carry permit, that would be one thing I would require along with the bill of sale and driver license.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

I would complete the sale at a willing FFL dealer.
For a fee of course. As if you were buying/selling it online and shipping it.
That way the new owner does not get it until after the FFL dealer has run the buyer and gun thru the background check system, etc. And thus the feds have it on record that the gun is now owned by someone else.


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

What tin can said, if you don't at least ask if they are a felon(lautenburg amendment, etc) or legally allowed to own a gun it can come back on you. I had an entire entry team of ATF agents surround my house once because of an honest mistake my wife and her dad made buying 9mm berettas. The same guy they bought the guns from legally had been selling to felons without asking them anything. He went to jail. But he didnt ask on purpose and did it multiple times.


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## TheCaptKen (Mar 14, 2011)

CHUMM BUCKET said:


> Carefull, a couple of their moderators are cry babies.
> 
> One thing I like to do with a transaction is take a pic of each others drivers license. If someone has an issue with that than no sale.


And if you should ever make a comment about some of the Mod's gouging practices, they ban you from the board.


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## bamachem (Oct 2, 2007)

You have to ask two questions:

1. Are you a resident of Florida (same residency as seller)?

If yes, then:

2. Is there any reason that you are not allowed to own or possess a firearm?

If no, then proceed with sale.

Nothing more required. That puts all liability back on the buyer. If it's a sting operation with an agent, you've just been recorded doing your due dilligence.


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

TheCaptKen said:


> And if you should ever make a comment about some of the Mod's gouging practices, they ban you from the board.


im not surprised at all


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

bamachem said:


> You have to ask two questions:
> 
> 1. Are you a resident of Florida (same residency as seller)?
> 
> ...


not being a smart a$$ but do you think this would hold up in court if you infact sold to a convicted felon?


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## bamachem (Oct 2, 2007)

Yup. If you ask the questions, then you can pass a polygraph. You simply offer to take one. Nothing to hide here.

Do you think cops will accept a note with chickenscratch handwriting as a legal bill of sale without doubting it? Think a prosecutor couldn't come up with 100 different ways of saying a B.O.S. was a fake short of having one notarized?

C'mon.


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## TheCaptKen (Mar 14, 2011)

Y'all are wasting too much brain power on this. Read the laws. There is no regulation on a person to person purchase. The law prevents a felon from possession not from a person selling to them unknowing. So if the guy wears a suit and tie, sell it to him. If he has ink that says, *********** and Death To All Others, I'd probably walk away.


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

bamachem said:


> Yup. If you ask the questions, then you can pass a polygraph. You simply offer to take one. Nothing to hide here.
> 
> Do you think cops will accept a note with chickenscratch handwriting as a legal bill of sale without doubting it? Think a prosecutor couldn't come up with 100 different ways of saying a B.O.S. was a fake short of having one notarized?
> 
> C'mon.


cops are different than court. i would think chicken scratch with signatures would hold up. i know for a fact a hand written document would have saved me in court over a real estate sale back in 2003. 85 year old bible thumper screwed me out of 2 pcs of property.


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## Yarmur (Apr 19, 2013)

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


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## TheCaptKen (Mar 14, 2011)

Sad thing is, I know several people that is legally prohibited from owning a firearm that I would trust more with one than some I know that can legally own one.


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> I would complete the sale at a willing FFL dealer.
> For a fee of course. As if you were buying/selling it online and shipping it.
> That way the new owner does not get it until after the FFL dealer has run the buyer and gun thru the background check system, etc. And thus the feds have it on record that the gun is now owned by someone else.


This is ridiculous, this is the reason we will end up with a gun registration in this country eventually. To assume that two law abiding citizens of the US can not buy and sell a firearm without the consent of the federal government is an insult to all gun owners.


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## bamachem (Oct 2, 2007)

CHUMM BUCKET said:


> cops are different than court. i would think chicken scratch with signatures would hold up. i know for a fact a hand written document would have saved me in court over a real estate sale back in 2003. 85 year old bible thumper screwed me out of 2 pcs of property.


Thanks for the insight.

Cops are the ones who investigate. Cop can be local PD, state police, BATFE agent, etc.

You can hand an officer all the paper you want, but they are going to treat it and anything else they get with heavy scrutiny.

Unless a Bill of Sale is notarized, there is no verifying third party who attests to its authenticity, therefore it's basically a worthless document.

Nobody is going to get a Notary for a firearms bill of sale. That's just silly.

Like I said, as long as you have no knowledge or reason to suspect that the buyer is not allowed to have firearms, then you're in the clear. Also remember that all prosecutors must have EVIDENCE that you had knowledge otherwise. In order to do that, it's typically a person that is known to you. You have no way of knowing that type of info about a stranger, so selling a gun to one is not going to land you in jail. If it's an undercover agent/cop doing the buying, and you ask the questions, they may answer "yes" or even "maybe" to the questions about residency or criminal history. If you go forward with the sale, then you clearly have the intent of breaking the law and will earn a pair of stainless steel bracelets.

Two questions, and NO PAPERWORK is the best way to handle it between two private individuals.

Oh, and I'm a FFL holder. People should keep it simple and not go beyond what is required by law. Besides, how long are you gonna keep those bills of sale?


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

Hey dont make me sick 49er on you!


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

I always comment to a prospective buyer when we meet and I see him reach for a wallet for ID or his CCW, that I am not a law enforcement officer, I am a private citizen just like him and I have neither the authority nor the desire to see his identification. All I need to see is the cash or the trade item if that is the deal. I have no legal authority to ask for anything more, nor does a seller If Im the nimrod buying. I don't do bills of sale or ID swapping.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

DLo said:


> This is ridiculous, this is the reason we will end up with a gun registration in this country eventually. To assume that two law abiding citizens of the US can not buy and sell a firearm without the consent of the federal government is an insult to all gun owners.


Tsk, Tsk, the requirement is already in place if your wanting to buy/sell across state lines.

People swapping firearms "no questions asked" is why there will be the same requirement for all swaps no matter where. Wait and see.

Said felon to judge: "No sir, the guy I got the gun from never asked if I was a convicted felon".
Go ahead and ask and take the buyers word for it, you can trust him, right? He will tell the truth when on trial in court for using a gun that the feds think you still own.

To each his own.


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

From atf.gov FAQ page.

Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?
When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and . However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.
There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.
Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3.


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> Tsk, Tsk, the requirement is already in place if your wanting to buy/sell across state lines.
> 
> People swapping firearms "no questions asked" is why there will be the same requirement for all swaps no matter where. Wait and see.
> 
> ...


Nobody said anything about no questions, ask if the person is allowed to own a firearm, that has been said countless times, if they respond no and you have no reasonable Suspicion that they don't have legal status, then you have fulfilled your requirements. The rest is just a solution looking for a problem.


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## Shoot Straight (May 30, 2013)

I just made a short, informal standard Bill of Sale form to use, but it may be worthless in court. Buyer & Seller both state they are not convicted felons, not drug addicts, not mentally incompetent, etc. Both put their names, addresses, phones, Driver's License numbers, etc. I go in depth to describe gun and put serial number, model, etc. Just googled Bill of Sale form examples and got several. SUCCESS!


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

A BOS, ID checks and twenty questions are the perfect solution; to a non-existent problem. A firearm sale between two citizens is no different than selling a fishing rod, lawn mower or a truck load of 2X4s...all that is needed is approval of goods by buyer,and acceptance of cash by the seller, it's no more difficult than that. I can't for the life of me figure out why some, want to make a perfectly legal transaction between two individuals so complicated?


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## Sailing_Faith (Mar 11, 2009)

bamachem said:


> You have to ask two questions:
> 
> 1. Are you a resident of Florida (same residency as seller)?
> 
> ...


+1, of course I put these on the bill of sale so I have it in writing.

Using a FFL is a step in the wrong direction.... Maybe you should go get your vehicle emissions tested "just in case"? :thumbdown:


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

You don't have to ask any questions , unless it's about the weather or how ya doin' or any other small talk while the prospective buyer fingers your firearm before purchasing.
We are not law enforcement officers nor lawyers, we are private citizens buying and selling goods. Good gawd, do some of you twist in the wind after selling a lawn mower at a yard sale, and worry if the buyer will cut his toes off and sue you?
I never ask for ID or play 20 questions, nor do I offer any ID or answer any questions if Im the buyer. Neither I, nor you have the legal authority, or should have the desire to ask questions and ask for ID, just sell or buy the damned firearm and get on with your life.


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