# Watch those photos..............



## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

Check out this link to another forum in So. Fla. Took 3
fwc officers to question 1 guy about some pics he'd posted
on line. They are watchin and following up apparently.


http://www.southfloridasharkclub.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4202


Not sure of all the particulars on this but sounds true enough.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

wow , everything is becoming illegal except illegals


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## Redalert08 (May 30, 2011)

That's pretty retarded 

Chase


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

FWC has discussed this via their twitter account. (This=investigating online posts and pictures.) Yes, they do peek at boards and, yes, they can come after you. Once something is out there on the internet, it's there forever.


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

they came to my front do for a alligator gar, i caught him on the Alabama river but they assumed i caught him here, iam afraid to give out information and advice thinking they will try and criminalize me for something, all i got to say is get off the computers and get in the field and catch some real criminals not bloggers, wasting tax dollars driving around for false leads, if you do plane on giveing a ticket make sure you got all the facts this is not to catch a predator. there is no Chris Hanson here


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## Mullethead (Oct 4, 2007)

Funny - I got barked at on this site for warning folks about posting pics of folks showing a jewfish pulled into the boat - maybe they should follow that link before saying I was 'just jealous' of someone catching a mess of fish.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

CatHunter said:


> they came to my front do for a alligator gar, i caught him on the Alabama river but they assumed i caught him here


I remember that.


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## sniper (Oct 3, 2007)

Why would anyone post pictures of doing something illegal? Seems dumb to blatantly throw it online and expect nothing will come of it.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

sniper said:


> Why would anyone post pictures of doing something illegal? Seems dumb to blatantly throw it online and expect nothing will come of it.


I don't think that a lot of people really consider what could happen. There was a recent thread here with pics of some illegal activity in it.


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## Mullethead (Oct 4, 2007)

sniper said:


> Why would anyone post pictures of doing something illegal? Seems dumb to blatantly throw it online and expect nothing will come of it.


Most of the time its because a fish is mis identified (thinking a jew fish is legal species of grouper for example) don't know the rules or are not aware of a recent change.

I am kind of sympathic to the latter - because the rules change all the time- its tough to keep up. 

However when its politly pointed out - and then rather than delete the photo or post, they attack the messager, well .... maybe that indicative of a pattern of not so lawful practices.... 

So while it may be an 'honest mistake' to screw up (and we do have to pay for these mistakes too, lord knows I made my share) ... agree its blatantly dumb to advertise it to all the world in cyberspace.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

I had NIS [ Navel Internal Security ] from Hurlbert Field show up at my house demanding to see and record the serial number from a pair of ANPVS7D Goggles I bought from a Navy man in California.
I talked to them with my 6 foot chain link between us and my German Shepards at my side. I refused to hand my new Goggles over the fence but did allow them to look them over between the chain link and record the serial number. they are Litton Military goggles with the IR warning sensor but not stolen.
we are being watched closly


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Scary....I guess this is what it's like to fear your government.


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## Naby (Jan 18, 2009)

How are they able to figure out where somebody lives from info on the forum? Most people only use first names if that. Also, this forum and most email addresses don't require physical addresses to be given to register them. I guess they may be able to figure out a name from an email address an go from there.

Also, if I understand the law correctly you are not required to say anything to them if they do come to speak to you (remember your Miranda rights). I would think it would take more than a picture on a internet forum for a judge to issue an arrest warrant, search warrant, or a court summons. I guess that depends on the picture though. I don't keep illegal fish but I usually just post pictures of fish, no people or anything else that could with a doubt link the fish directly to me. I don't do this on purpose, it is just the way I post pictures. The burden of proof is on them and there is a lot to prove: what date was the picture taken/fish caught, how big was the fish, how many fish were there, where was the fish caught, how many people were on the boat, etc. Other than the accused plainly admitting all of the facts, I don't see them having enough information to really do anything.

As it is, I have always believed that our 4th amendment rights are being violated when we are stopped by FWC without probably cause. ("The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."). I feel the same way about DUI/drivers license roadblocks. That being said, I have always been treated respectfully by them and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Naby said:


> How are they able to figure out where somebody lives from info on the forum? Most people only use first names if that. Also, this forum and most email addresses don't require physical addresses to be given to register them. I guess they may be able to figure out a name from an email address an go from there.


It's easy. They can subpoena the site owners and get your IP address. Then they show up at your house or where you work, depending on the IP address, and talk to you or arrest you.


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

sniper said:


> Why would anyone post pictures of doing something illegal? Seems dumb to blatantly throw it online and expect nothing will come of it.


*I can't count the amount of posts with pic's I have seen on this forum that had pictures of fish that were either out of season when the pictures were taken or obviously under or over size. Even better when the post starts off like this " So Me, My buddy and his son (3 people) went out the Pensacola pass yesterday" And then you see a picture of 20 ARS on a cleaning table in thier back yard. Or some guys wife holding a Gag Grouper about 20" long dated 07/22/2011 standing in the driveway next to the boat.*

*If they are watching that close there truley are some lucky people on here.*


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I doubt they will knock on your door for undersized or oversized fish, unless it is extremely obvious. It would be hard for them to measure a picture. I understand they could take a point of reference, but good luck to them trying to get that to stand in court.


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

its the prohibited fish to harvest they are looking for, sturgeons, Goliath groupers, alligator gars just careful and watch what u say and remember they are watching..


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

MrFish said:


> I doubt they will knock on your door for undersized or oversized fish, unless it is extremely obvious. It would be hard for them to measure a picture. I understand they could take a point of reference, but good luck to them trying to get that to stand in court.


True. But some other things are pretty obvious: Marine Mammal Protection Act stuff, restricted species, etc. 

They have busted hunters and poachers via these online forums, too; it's not just limited to fish.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

aroundthehorn said:


> It's easy. They can subpoena the site owners and get your IP address. Then they show up at your house or where you work, depending on the IP address, and talk to you or arrest you.


have you never clicked onto a site that shows your IP address , plus your C drive and My documents ? everything is easy these days and you are in fact naked when attached to the Internet

TURTLE , it is a target rich environment , they get to pick and choose who to reel in on any given day and there is no size limit or off season


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

HisName said:


> have you never clicked onto a site that shows your IP address , plus your C drive and My documents ? everything is easy these days and you are in fact naked when attached to the Internet
> 
> TURTLE , it is a target rich environment , they get to pick and choose who to reel in on any given day and there is no size limit or off season


Not sure to whom that is directed. I know it is very easy for them to find out who you are. But to get your IP address they would go through your ISP and the site owners. They are law enforcement, not hackers. Having said that, nobody can expect to be anonymous on the web now; that's the point of Web 2.0--sharing and collecting information in exchange for free services.

There is a creepy mod on another site who uses his/her state-owned software (this person is an IT tech for a school district and misusing it is illegal) to find out posters' personal information. A friend of mine who is a Microsoft tech guy has tried to fool him/her and he/she figured it out every time. It's not rocket science and it's not difficult.


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## 20simmons sea skiff (Aug 20, 2010)

what do they do with the pictures i post that are 30 years old??


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Its hard to feel sorry for someone who posts pictures of themselves breaking the law.

Anyone who can catch a tarpon, jewfish, or billfish knows its illigal to take them out of the water if you're not going to kill them, can't kill them, or have the proper tags for them. If you feel the need to do so anyway, keep it to yourself.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

gator7_5 said:


> Its hard to feel sorry for someone who posts pictures of themselves breaking the law.
> 
> Anyone who can catch a tarpon, jewfish, or billfish knows its illigal to take them out of the water if you're not going to kill them, can't kill them, or have the proper tags for them. If you feel the need to do so anyway, keep it to yourself.


Didn't think it was illegal to take bills out of the water. I know you shouldn't for the health of the fish.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

It is illigal if you are not going to keep them.

_All Atlantic HMS fishing gears. _(1) An Atlantic HMS harvested from its management unit that is not retained must be released in a manner that will ensure maximum probability of survival, but without removing the fish from the water.

(2) If a billfish is caught by a hook and not retained, the fish must be released by cutting the line near the hook or by using a dehooking device, in either case without removing the fish from the water.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....3.1.2&idno=50


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Ok. Didn't know that. Good deal.


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## sniper (Oct 3, 2007)

For those that say it isn't fair because they didn't know it was illegal....Really? Maybe they should learn the law before going fishing. Sure, last minute reg. changes are confusing, but I can't remember a time it was ever legal to harvest a Jew fish. If they can't tell the difference between a Jewish and a gag then they should educate themselves before deciding to keep it. I know they sell fish ID books at all the same places that sell the bait they are buying. They are only about $20 or less.

Ignorance is no excuse.


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

Your point is well taken. But what about 
all those great outta water shots in FS and other fishing
mags and how can you advertise Goliath Grouper Charters
when technically your not suppose to target a species 
thats banned. Lots of loop holes but all seemed to be
focused around commerical interests and not the good
ol rec boys. My point with this thread was what an assine
waste of FWC resourses to send 3 officers out to investigate
the activities of 1 recreational angler. Could have understood
some sort of pics with dead tarpon and GG heads at the base of
a cleaning table. These shots were just fish lifted out of the water.
The GG shots were not even out of the water..........


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

J.Sharit said:


> Your point is well taken. But what about
> all those great outta water shots in FS and other fishing
> mags and how can you advertise Goliath Grouper Charters
> when technically your not suppose to target a species
> ...


The FWC sends officers out every day to question recreational fishermen and hunters. Same thing, only on land and at your house instead of your boat.

The stuff you mention about the magazines and fishing shows is interesting. I would like to hear how that works.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

If Fishin was a required subject in collage and if even those who only had a HS diploma were given a course in what fish you can catch , how you can catch it , and how long it must be , then we could cut out all the time wasted on putting rubbers on bananas


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't see how pictures can prove a thing, for all they know (unless the Pensacola lighthouse is in the background) you could have caught the "illegal" fish, or conch, or anything else in question in Mexico, Costa Rica, the Bahamas, Africa, etc at any given date or time.


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## Trophy05 (Nov 12, 2008)

It might not be the pictures that gets you, it's you talking to them. You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen talk themselves into going to jail or a getting a ticket...


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## traqem (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm former LE and VERY pro law enforcement. However, this really, really makes me mad. During my 18 years in investigations, I never worked with anyone who had time to take care of many of the fairly serious crimes they came across and WANTED to work. In my world, the lazy POSs who chased minor, easy, and low hanging fruit were laughed at and constantly chided. They were not part of the "club" and go-getters would not associate with them. This doesn't rise to the level of low hanging fruit...... maybe it's possible, kind of, partial low hanging fruit if they get really lucky.

It's beyond my belief that fish and game officers have so little meaningful work to do that they have time to chase pics posted on the Internet in hopes they MIGHT find something to issue a citation over..... or maybe gee whiz, if they're lucky, a misdemeanor arrest. What a joke these guys are. 

They and their bosses are doing a disservice to their agency. The bosses need to rethink their approach and the cost/benefit analysis of what they are doing. This is very poor public relations, no way to gain support for your agency nor your mission, and simply not a good use of resources.

I did work with both state and federal wildlife officers at times and I know what it takes for them to make good cases. This isn't it.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

traqem said:


> I'm former LE and VERY pro law enforcement. However, this really, really makes me mad. During my 18 years in investigations, I never worked with anyone who had time to take care of many of the fairly serious crimes they came across and WANTED to work. In my world, the lazy POSs who chased minor, easy, and low hanging fruit were laughed at and constantly chided. They were not part of the "club" and go-getters would not associate with them. This doesn't rise to the level of low hanging fruit...... maybe it's possible, kind of, partial low hanging fruit if they get really lucky.
> 
> It's beyond my belief that fish and game officers have so little meaningful work to do that they have time to chase pics posted on the Internet in hopes they MIGHT find something to issue a citation over..... or maybe gee whiz, if they're lucky, a misdemeanor arrest. What a joke these guys are.
> 
> ...


What is the difference between, say, this kind of stuff and the police busting somebody online for a parole violation via Facebook, inciting a flash mob and robbery, or identifying a criminal in a youtube video taken on a cell phone? There doesn't seem to be anything that screams to me these officers are "pieces of sh-t" or lazy.

Your post seems a bit harsh. What do you expect them to do? Turn the other cheek and not do their job when somebody posts a picture and story about shooting a raptor or harvesting illegal deer? Are you in tune with the way that the internet works now?


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## Hewes your daddy? (Mar 9, 2009)

Seem's to me that this form of investgation may be the most cost efficient. It reduces fuel costs, wear and tear on equipment, less risk to personel, while still sending the message that illegal harvesting of our resource will not be tollerated. Sound's like good business sense and a wise use of our tax dollars in a time when budgets are extremely tight. Don't break the rules should be the lesson learned here. How many leads in other criminal cases are dead ends. It doesn't stop good investigators from asking innocent people questions in order to elliminate suspects from those who actually committed a crime.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> Its hard to feel sorry for someone who posts pictures of themselves breaking the law.
> 
> Anyone who can catch a tarpon, jewfish, or billfish knows its illigal to take them out of the water if you're not going to kill them, can't kill them, or have the proper tags for them. If you feel the need to do so anyway, keep it to yourself.


Have you ever taken a bull red out of the water to take the hook out or for a quick pic?


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

I don't disagree with what there doing, we all use the internet to get the info we need, let's just make sure its a sound case and not photo shoped or fabricated and then make the move, its a new social media world we live in, we praised chris hanson for his work and should do the same for these guys aslong as it not a wild goose chace..


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## traqem (Mar 10, 2009)

aroundthehorn said:


> What is the difference between, say, this kind of stuff and the police busting somebody online for a parole violation via Facebook, inciting a flash mob and robbery, or identifying a criminal in a youtube video taken on a cell phone? There doesn't seem to be anything that screams to me these officers are "pieces of sh-t" or lazy.
> 
> Your post seems a bit harsh. What do you expect them to do? Turn the other cheek and not do their job when somebody posts a picture and story about shooting a raptor or harvesting illegal deer? Are you in tune with the way that the internet works now?


The piece of S*** thing is your choice of words, not mine.

It's very simple. I expect them to use their time wisely on serious violations where they can do some good. That means - in the realm in which they operate - that they would only investigate pics on the web in situations where someone looks to be a very serious, repeat violator of serious laws rather than spending our public resources on a person who may or may not have violated a single ordinance or two. What they are doing is the equivalent of a field investigation for speeding or a parking violation. 

No, I would not expect them to pursue this course of investigation for the poaching of a single measly little deer that the states are all encouraging us to kill either. These little things are extremely minor violations that result in a small fine. Officers and agencies with their priorities in place do enforce these laws as they come across them as they most certainly should, but in no way should the resources required for an investigation be expended on these things. Plain and simple, if they have time to do this, they have too many people working too many man hours and they are wasting public funds that are too tight. 

The reason they are doing these type of things is because it's a chance at a very easy arrest stat that requires little effort or thought AND gee, they get to spend time surfing the web and call it work too. I've been there and done that and I know that this is the type of thing the lazy officers do, not those who are out there doing things to truly protect the resource from serious violators. That is much harder work.


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## traqem (Mar 10, 2009)

Hewes your daddy? said:


> Seem's to me that this form of investgation may be the most cost efficient. It reduces fuel costs, wear and tear on equipment, less risk to personel, while still sending the message that illegal harvesting of our resource will not be tollerated. Sound's like good business sense and a wise use of our tax dollars in a time when budgets are extremely tight. Don't break the rules should be the lesson learned here. How many leads in other criminal cases are dead ends. It doesn't stop good investigators from asking innocent people questions in order to elliminate suspects from those who actually committed a crime.


I sincerely disagree with your train of thought. I'll leave it at that as I have no desire to start an argument over this and I respect your opinions.


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## spear em (Oct 4, 2007)

traqem said:


> I'm former LE and VERY pro law enforcement. However, this really, really makes me mad. During my 18 years in investigations, I never worked with anyone who had time to take care of many of the fairly serious crimes they came across and WANTED to work. In my world, the lazy POSs who chased minor, easy, and low hanging fruit were laughed at and constantly chided. They were not part of the "club" and go-getters would not associate with them. This doesn't rise to the level of low hanging fruit...... maybe it's possible, kind of, partial low hanging fruit if they get really lucky.
> 
> It's beyond my belief that fish and game officers have so little meaningful work to do that they have time to chase pics posted on the Internet in hopes they MIGHT find something to issue a citation over..... or maybe gee whiz, if they're lucky, a misdemeanor arrest. What a joke these guys are.
> 
> ...


18 years is a long time on a job. did you drag up or get fired? i dont know of any state or federal leo job that a man can do 18 years and just walk away with benefits. hell i have been doing it for 21 years and i cant retire for another four years. just wondering sir, maybe i can transfer to where you were? not a slam, just a legit question.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

traqem said:


> The piece of S*** thing is your choice of words, not mine.
> 
> It's very simple. I expect them to use their time wisely on serious violations where they can do some good. That means - in the realm in which they operate - that they would only investigate pics on the web in situations where someone looks to be a very serious, repeat violator of serious laws rather than spending our public resources on a person who may or may not have violated a single ordinance or two. What they are doing is the equivalent of a field investigation for speeding or a parking violation.
> 
> ...



Here you go:

"In my world, the lazy POSs who chased minor, easy, and low hanging fruit were laughed at and constantly chided."

Your words, not mine. (really?) Does POS mean something else?


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## traqem (Mar 10, 2009)

Wanted me to move my family to Chicago after I had already done my time and made a move back home. Found a good private job and walked away. I still miss it every morning when I wake up. That is, I miss the good work, helping people, and being with cops and agents all day every day, but not the government BS. All 18 were investigations, not all were 1811.


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## traqem (Mar 10, 2009)

aroundthehorn said:


> Here you go:
> 
> "In my world, the lazy POSs who chased minor, easy, and low hanging fruit were laughed at and constantly chided."
> 
> Your words, not mine. (really?) Does POS mean something else?


Good point, I admit. Didn't intend to label these guys as such, had some people in mind from back in the day.


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

I think theres been a derailment
or just a wiggle in the tracks ?????


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## Murphy's Law (Sep 27, 2007)

traqem said:


> Good point, I admit. Didn't intend to label these guys as such, had some people in mind from back in the day.


Don't sweat it traqem. Most can tell you sound like a good dude and no what your trying to say.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Forum Runner


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

J.Sharit said:


> I think theres been a derailment
> or just a wiggle in the tracks ?????


Just a little wiggle. I'd like to see somebody back up his swag, though. He won't, of course. It's easy to be a big man on the internet or whatever.


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## Hewes your daddy? (Mar 9, 2009)

Is it really lazy to use all of our availabe tools or is it the most efficient way to do things with the under manned FWC forces that we presently have? In the past we had game wardens in the woods and marine patrol on the water. Now we have less enforcement agents burdened with the task of taking care of both the woods and the waters on a very limited budget. Cudos to the officers that have become creative enough to use every possible resource that is given them to enforce the laws we have. And bad for you if you are foolish enough to post pictures of your violations. It's been said that "what happens in the dark will come to the light". I guess in this day of social media the light is shining brighter than it ever did before.


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

A few things to ponder on this subject :

These laws are directed towards anglers fishing on watercrafts, not shore anglers. You don't need to remove the fish from the water to take the hook out when fishing on a boat. When the fish is tired, you pull his head right beside the boat and use your pliers or Arc DeHooker to remove the hook. From shore its a whole different story. You don't have the advantage of being above the fish and pulling him to a solid structure. The fish can run anywhere on the beach, up and down the trough all day long. You have to beach him to stop him. Whether you are trying to land a 100lb tarpon, shark, and or grouper, there is no way you are going to remove the hook while the fish is in the water! And a fish that size isn't going to stop fighting just because he is close to shore. The only way to remove the hook while the fish is still in the water is to wear out the fish to the point of absolute exhaustion, where it most likely isn't going to survive.

The FWC "Catch and Release" (http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/fis ... e-fishing/) saltwater conservation program states and I quote: *Quote:*
"The most important actions an angler can take to ensure a successful release are to hook and land the fish as quickly as possible, leave the fish in the water while removing the hook, and release the fish quickly."


but the "Saltwater Fish Handling Guidelines" (http://myfwc.com/conservation/saltwater/fish-handling/) states and I quote: *Quote:*
"Anglers should also use common sense when releasing fish. Sometimes it's better to safely handle a fish to carefully remove the hook so it can be released, and other times it's best to cut the line as close to the hook as possible while the fish is in the water - especially if it's large or agitated."


I find it very unlikely in a situation with a 100lb fish, that any shorebound angler can follow both of these guidelines at the same time. How can you bring in a "green" fish that is still trying to get away and remove the hook while the fish is still in the water? This is not common sense! This is stupidity! In order to keep the fish in the water, anglers from shore will have to cut the line 100% of the time and therefore not practice what is considered "good conservation efforts". 

Also, this is very hypocritical! On one hand, they want to promote conservation and circle hooks, but on the other hand, they don't want you to remove the fish from the water? So what are we supposed to do? Cut the line and leave the fish with a big hook and a long leader hanging behind it? How is this conservation? Leaving a hook in a fish's mouth that will take years to rust out if not ever! 

And what's the point of fishing if you cant take a photo of your catch! Isn't this what sport fishing is all about? Every fisherman wants to talk about his catch! In the past, the fish was killed and brought to the dock as a trophy. Today, the photo is the trophy. If you can't take a photo of the fish, who is going to believe you caught it? And if the photo has to been taken in the water, do cash-strapped anglers have to risk breaking their camera to take a photo of their catch? Or do they have to purchase a waterproof camera they can't afford to abide by the law?

Come on FWC! I know that there are many FWC officers who at one point in their life, have fished from land based structures and know the difficulties of landing a large fish from shore. Most fishermen begin their fishing adventures from shore at a young age. Fishing is not only from a boat! A 14 year old kid isn't thinking about about going to jail when he is landing his first tarpon from a pier, he thinking about how awesome the photo is going to look.


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## Naby (Jan 18, 2009)

traqem said:


> I'm former LE and VERY pro law enforcement. However, this really, really makes me mad. During my 18 years in investigations, I never worked with anyone who had time to take care of many of the fairly serious crimes they came across and WANTED to work. In my world, the lazy POSs who chased minor, easy, and low hanging fruit were laughed at and constantly chided. They were not part of the "club" and go-getters would not associate with them. This doesn't rise to the level of low hanging fruit...... maybe it's possible, kind of, partial low hanging fruit if they get really lucky.
> 
> It's beyond my belief that fish and game officers have so little meaningful work to do that they have time to chase pics posted on the Internet in hopes they MIGHT find something to issue a citation over..... or maybe gee whiz, if they're lucky, a misdemeanor arrest. What a joke these guys are.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your perspective on the matter.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Have you ever taken a bull red out of the water to take the hook out or for a quick pic?


 
Honestly, very likely have at some point to measure wether it was in the slot. Is it illigal to do so?


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> Honestly, very likely have at some point to measure wether it was in the slot. Is it illigal to do so?


A couple years ago chris and I were interested in putting on a bull red tournament in the pass. The same format as the tarpon tourneys in boca grand pass were they drag the live fish over to the scales and then release it after a weight.We consulted the fwc to see if we would need one of those "cull permits" for it.

We were told that not only could the people not boat the bull red but dragging the fish in the water with a rope, hand gaff, or even a boga grip would be possession and thus against the law!

We asked about taking a fish out of the water for for pictures and was told that is also possession and also against the law. I don't know how you are supposed to measure one without breaking the law.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Look at www.floridasportsman.com There's a girl on there holding up a 50+" red.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

Matt Mcleod said:


> A couple years ago chris and I were interested in putting on a bull red tournament in the pass. The same format as the tarpon tourneys in boca grand pass were they drag the live fish over to the scales and then release it after a weight.We consulted the fwc to see if we would need one of those "cull permits" for it.
> 
> We were told that not only could the people not boat the bull red but dragging the fish in the water with a rope, hand gaff, or even a boga grip would be possession and thus against the law!
> 
> We asked about taking a fish out of the water for for pictures and was told that is also possession and also against the law. I don't know how you are supposed to measure one without breaking the law.


I guess if you carry a tarpon permit, i'ts legal to possess one temporarily? You should try that at perdido pass. Maybe it would be legal there.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

That's not my point. My point is that some people are coming down on this guy for "not knowing the law" when he didn't do anything different than take a picture of a bull red.

And using the time and resources of the tax payers to harass a guy who took a picture of a tarpon, grouper, or bull red that was released is not reasonable in my opinion.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree, Matt.

But my point wasn't about bull reds. It was a about specifically targeted species, that take time and knowledge to pursue and catch. Which is why I said Tarpon, Billfish and Jewfish. Anyone who can catch one should know the laws, and shouldn't be removing them anyway. I wasn't reffering to some speckled trout and pompano bycatch by a tourist.

Guess it irks the hell out of me when I see someone bend a 200# fish over the side of the gunnel for a picture, when they should know better.


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> I agree, Matt.
> 
> But my point wasn't about bull reds. It was a about specifically targeted species, that take time and knowledge to pursue and catch. Which is why I said Tarpon, Billfish and Jewfish. Anyone who can catch one should know the laws, and shouldn't be removing them anyway. I wasn't reffering to some speckled trout and pompano bycatch by a tourist.
> 
> Guess it irks the hell out of me when I see someone bend a 200# fish over the side of the gunnel for a picture, when they should know better.


 
Remember this is a south florida post where tarpon and Goliaths
are much easier to find and far more plentiful than in other
areas and I've seen several large goliaths pulled to the beach 
by land absed shark fishermen and certain times of the year
the tarpon are as thick as specs in our area under under the lights
at night. You don't have to target a species to catch one and not everyone has to be an expert to catch one. Just a thought.


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

J.Sharit said:


> Remember this is a south florida post where tarpon and Goliaths
> are much easier to find and far more plentiful than in other
> areas and I've seen several large goliaths pulled to the beach
> by land absed shark fishermen and certain times of the year
> ...



very tru if some one catches a Goliath or tarpon around here its almost a front page news event, but in south Florida it wont even raise eyebrows from the most inexperience anglers


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I think the point is, if you know it's illegal then don't take photos of it and post them. There are plenty of cases where the pic poster probably didn't know, i.e. feeding dolphins. Now they do and probably won't do it again. As far as, knowing ALL the regs. It's possible, but I doubt there are many people that do. They know the ones that pertain to them. Should FWC do this? Why not? It's within their power. I wouldn't knowingly post a pic of an illegal act or fish, so it really doesn't bother me what they do.


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