# Gag and Triggerfish Public Hearings



## GandyGirl (Aug 10, 2010)

What do you think about the gag season? 
Would you like it to be at a different time of year?
What do you think about going to a 1 gag bag limit if it means more fishing days?
What do you think about removing or changing the February – March shallow-water grouper closed season?
How should we deal with commercial and recreational gray triggerfish management to ensure the overfished stock rebuilds??
Should we create gray triggerfish closed seasons?
Should we make bag limits and trip limits for gray triggerfish?

The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council wants to know your opinions on these questions. Please come out to one of the pubic hearings next week to share your thoughts. If you can’t make it in person you can use the amendment guides or watch the public hearing video presentations that explain the issues and submit comments electronically. 

Check out this blog post to learn a bit more about each issue and to figure out how to give the Council your opinion. 

http://gulfcouncil.blogspot.com/

Just a reminder, the comments you leave on this thread won’t be used by the Council. To ensure that your thoughts are considered please read the blog and submit your comments to the link provided. 

Thanks so much!
Emily Muehlstein

p.s. you don’t have to like us to ‘like’ us on Facebook @gulfcouncil


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

What data shows the Grey Trigger is struggling? We've (my family) caught more the last two years than we have in the last 25.... meaning we wouldn't be catching more if they were overfished. I just wonder where these numbers come from? Of course the ARS numbers the gov't has are wildly off. I just don't get it... Have you watched any of the videos the divers post on public wrecks? They're covered with snaps and trigger... It is so frustrating from the outside looking in because it make ZERO sense.


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## capt mike (Oct 3, 2007)

*They know it makes no sense but they have to keep their jobs somehow!*

My title of this reply says it all! The governmental employees must always cry "like chicken little the sky is falling" to keep their lucrative grants and overpaid jobs!! This is a ruse upon the recreational fishermen and women. I am catching many more triggers than I used to and they are HUGE!! First thing is the gov't makes us use a hook that is almost impossible for a triggerfish to take and then does the chicken little routine when they can't catch them! Use a simple small J-hook fish above the snappers and you will catch all the trigs you want to clean!:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## GandyGirl (Aug 10, 2010)

Mike, 
A collective group of scientists use the SEDAR process to determine the health of fish stocks. Basically, they collect all the studies that have been done over the years (government, state, university, alike) and compile that information to estimate the stock size. They use info on catch trends from commercial and recreational fishermen as well as independent samples (hook and line, net, trap, video monitoring). Once the have a stock status determined they send out the information they used and the conclusions they made to scientists around the world to review. Heres a resource with a pretty good explanation: http://www.seagrant.unh.edu/stockassessmentguide.pdf


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

Without thoroughly reading this 47-page report which tries to complicate things to the point of induced suicide watch... 

The main thing I don't get... how can you know the trends of the recreational angler if we are not required to report our catches? My inclination is to say that the annual recreational fisherman trips is overestimated by the forces that be. Between gas prices, crappy weather, and restriction/catch limits on our main-targeted fish the amount of trips must have significantly decreased. I love to fish... always have, but I almost can't justify spending the money for it (which I guess may be the end goal). And I'm financially secure... can't imagine how people that are struggling feel.

What is the actual data for our area? This talks about confidence intervals, bio mass uncertainty, etc... but only as ways to guess at the numbers. No actual data from our area.

I know there are thousands of smarter people out there working on this issue that know more than I could accumulate over 10 lifetimes... but here is something I do know. When I fill out the catch survey which we send in to FWC after every trip, the typical results are a few juvy grouper (maybe one keeper), a few mixed amber jack, 10 or so trigger, and somewhere around 30 ARS... so the two consistently most abundant caught species are the ones being protected... 

I'm no gov't conspiracy-type person... but this is very odd to say the least


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## GandyGirl (Aug 10, 2010)

The data collected by the FWC is included in the stock assessment that we use. The state samplers that survey you at the dock all include their information to the federal program. If you want to search for info on your area use this website to see the data: http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/index.html

I'm very aware of how complicated the documents are, thats why we have the guides and the video. I'm in Destin today and Orange Beach tomorrow and I will take time before each meeting to answer questions and explain what's going on. Hope to see you at one of those meetings. 
Let me know if you have any more questions.


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

I have ice hockey tonight, but can you tell me more about the meeting tomorrow? Place, time, topics? Is it directed towards Alabama laws/restrictions only? I only fish in Florida so I don't want to waste the time or gas to get out to OB if it doesn't really apply to me.

Thank you for all the explanations... Not intending to shoot the messenger.


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

There is a meeting tonight at 6 in Destin at Country Inn and Suites.

4415 Commons Dr. E.
Destin, FL 32541
(850) 650-9191


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## GandyGirl (Aug 10, 2010)

Mike, 
We are holding meetings at different cities across the Gulf to gather input on the gag/shallow-water grouper action and the triggerfish amendment. Myself and a member of the Gulf Council will be there. The meeting will start with a presentation about each topic and then we will answer questions, and finally take public testimony. In addition to the testimony being heard by the Council member present I will summarize all comments and present them to the Council before they make any decisions.
The meeting in Orange Beach tomorrow will be the same as tonight, just in a different city.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

GandyGirl said:


> They use info on *catch trends from* commercial and *recreational fishermen* as well as independent samples (hook and line, net, trap, video monitoring).


:blink:....


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## reel trouble (Jan 19, 2010)

Let me break this 47 page waste of time down for you. It's total BULLSHIT!!! And you can take that to the bank. It is mathematically impossible to estimate anything of this size with such little known information. It's like taking a line 2 ft long and projecting it out 500 miles and saying this is it. Anyone who drops a hook knows snapper are not hurting. Anyone drops a hook knows triggers are fine. Gags are a hard to come by at times but that's due to the commercial guys pounding that ass into oblivion.


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## Submarine (Nov 29, 2011)

Gags may be easier to catch if it weren't for all the endangered Red Snapper everywhere. I don't understand there being no limit on Trigger one day and CLOSED the next???


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Emily,
Since you are an avid recreational angler, and you state that you do not hold your tongue very well, could you give us your assessment of the current regulations for gag, ars and trigger? How you feel about current stock assessments?


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

Gandy Girl... time and place for OB meeting?


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Simple yes or no question. Are charter boats considered recreational in these tests?


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## GandyGirl (Aug 10, 2010)

MrFish - I believe the stock assessments are as accurate as they can be with the resources available. I know they are conducted by some of the most respected fisheries scientists in the scientific world, and I also know its pretty much impossible to count each individual fish in the Gulf. The triggerfish stock assessment indicated that we are not rebuilding the stock at the rate we expected and that we are missing younger aged fish... As a fishermen I wouldn't see a decline in the adult stock so I would likely question the results. 
Gag is a bit different. This amendment we are working on has nothing to do with overfishing/overfished status determined in the 2009 assessment. The gag Annual Catch Limit is scheduled to increase each year through 2015 and this action is being considered because fishermen asked us too. 

Magic Mike- 6pm Holiday Inn Express at 160 W. Commerce Blvd.

bigrick- charter boats are considered recreational.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

And what about the stock assessment of the American Red Snapper?


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## GandyGirl (Aug 10, 2010)

MrFish, I think it's possible that the science and the management is lagging behind, and I'm looking forward to the results of next years benchmark stock assessment.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Emily, on my charter boat, we had to move to different spots on 3 different occaisions last trip because we could not get our baits past the triggerfish. We threw back over a dozen triggerfish that were over 5lb. I've canceled all of my trips for the rest of the year because I'm tired of looking like an idiot.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

GandyGirl said:


> The triggerfish stock assessment indicated that we are not rebuilding the stock at the rate we expected and that we are missing younger aged fish....


Public natural bottom spots are loaded with juvenile triggers. I caught over 50 in an hour between 12 and 13.5" last week and zero 14" or bigger.. Overall this year I've caught close to 100 and had 2 keeprs. The juvenile triggers wouldnt let the bait get past 10' deep.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

gator7_5 said:


> Public natural bottom spots are loaded with juvenile triggers. I caught over 50 in an hour between 12 and 13.5" last week and zero 14" or bigger.. Overall this year I've caught close to 100 and had 2 keeprs. The juvenile triggers wouldnt let the bait get past 10' deep.


+1 they are really a pain in the ass there are so many in 60-70'....I wonder if these "respected fisheries scientists" know that the juvenile triggers are in shallower water than the adults.....


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## hydrocat (Sep 7, 2012)

no doubt on the 13" triggers....they're very abundant. 14"+ fish are hard to come by on the public reefs..


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

Back in the spring on one fishing trip, we decided to fish only for trigger. After my box was filled with keepers (32), we went grouper fishing. Triggers are everywhere, most public reefs are covered with smaller trigger. Sea-r-cy


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

We caught nothing but monsters on the edge last weekend but my biggest ever was only a few miles from the pass so you never know. Public stuff get picked over pretty good, that's probably where they do there "scientific studies". Public numbers make up a very small about of the structure thats out there.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

bigrick said:


> Public numbers make up a very small about of the structure thats out there.


Yea how many of these scientists conducting the studies have good private numbers??? My guess is they don't and probably only fish public spots......


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## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*fishing spots for NMFS fisheires managers*

They are limited to Natural Botttom public spots. Due to the way MSA is written artifical habitat and hatchery born fish cannot be counted. This is good and bad for all of us 
good for east coast lots of natural bottom.
gulf coast lots of sand and oil rigs that dont count.


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