# Rank importance of these 10 indicators for Palegics



## matttheboatman (Aug 25, 2008)

Ok, I'm sitting in front of my computer this morning instead of fishing because of the thunderstorms in the Gulf and I was thinking about what it takes to be successful catching Palegics. Based on your personal experence, how would you rank the importance of these 10 indicatiors as to whether or not you will be succesful in catching palegics? 

Here is my top ten (1 being most important)

1. Pressure falling or low
2. Location of bait
3. Surface Structure (grass line / log / debris / fad)
4. Moon status 
5. Lures or Bait (presentation / type )
6. Current (direction / speed / altimetry)
7. Water clarity or color
8. Bottom structure (wreck / edge / hump )
9. Time of Day
10. Attitude of Anglers (fun group / never qive up)

My #1 turns out to be low pressure - in thinking back to my epic trips, the one thing they all had in common was low pressure. The weather is usually bad or iffy. Conversely, those beautiful high pressure days can be super slow on the bite. 

Have I missed any "indicators" that you would put in your top 10?


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## MSViking (Oct 11, 2007)

1. Chlorophyl i.e. blue vs green water
2. surface structure i.e. weedline, oil rig etc..
2. altimetry
3. presence of life / bait


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

1. Crew
2. Water color (Chlorophyl)
3. Current and fish movement
4. Bait or life present
5. Moon phase


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## Scruggspc (Mar 20, 2013)

MSViking said:


> 1. Chlorophyl i.e. blue vs green water
> 2. surface structure i.e. weedline, oil rig etc..
> 2. altimetry
> 3. presence of life / bait


X2 on this! 4. How long the structure, alltimerty, rip/weedline has been formed and in a general area.


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## eddiem84 (Nov 3, 2010)

1. Cold Beer


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## MSViking (Oct 11, 2007)

Downtime2 said:


> 5. Moon phase


Especially as a kiss of death (full moon)


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

I have kept pretty intricate trip logs over the past 5 or so years, anything from moon phase, what time the best bite was, tide, altimetry, water color, clouds, sun, etc. etc. Here are a few trends I have noticed:

Altimetry: There has been such inconsistency with really good trips (billfish, tuna, dorado/wahoo) when it comes to altimetry, I don't even hardly look at it anymore. If it just happens to correspond with a killer color change, or temperature break, all the more power to it. The day we broke the big eye records in 2009, the altimetry was horrible that day, yet the fish were going off. Had a LOT of days like that. It's definitely not the deciding factor. 

Current: If there is no current next to a rig, we tend to see a lot of big tuna "slow-rolling," where it looks like they are coming up for air like a dolphin, but not aggressively feeding. They will pop up all over a rig, as opposed to being concentrated on the upcurrent side. You're pretty much wasting your time there, in most cases. Lots of current means lots of bait being pushed in, and often a feeding frenzy.

Water color: about this time of year, blue water is generally almost out of touch for us. Can we stop fishing and just wait for the blue water to push back in? Nope. Have caught tuna and marlin with regularity in green (albeit, usually pretty clear) water. The only thing we catch less of with a ton of green water is dorado. They seem to stay with the grasslines and other structure/debris in blue water.

Moon phase: During lump season, if there is a full moon, when it comes up during the middle of the day, get ready. The big tuna are about to start chewing. Right as rain, every moon phase. On the other end of that spectrum, this time of year, I'm not crazy about fishing overnighters on a full moon. My theory is that the fish have more light to hunt (even though they require none), and the surface bite next to the rigs seems to slack off. On a new moon, it seems like we see more tuna going nuts on the flying fish which are attracted to the lights of the rigs.

Pressure: whenever the bottom starts to drop out and the wind starts kicking, the fishing is always good over this way. It seems to get the waves and surface current really moving and brings in a ton of bait. Monday, when the east wind started kicking up after lunch, the tuna became so airborne crushing flying fish and other small fish, a good baseball player could have probably pegged one.

Bait: even the best looking grassline can be dead if it is not holding bait. You should be able to see an assortment of chicken dolphin, hardtails, small trigger and file fish, amongst others on a good grassline. As the bottom of the food chain, this is what is going to bring the big pelagic predators there to stay. Our oil rigs always have bait. 12 months a year. It may be easier to catch some days than others, but it's always there. A good rig in bluewater is as good of a place as any to catch tuna and marlin. Wintertime, I prefer the rigs in warmer water, though.

Lures: While I certainly have my favorites, if you're not in the right area, it doesn't matter what you have out-you're not going to catch fish. When you're in the right area, I don't think a marlin really cares what you have behind the boat. Caught em on all shapes, sizes, and colors. Not overly picky about what goes behind the boat, only how many lures and where.

Time of day: There seems to be a pretty consistent bite at sunup and sundown, that is no big secret. However, fishing out of Venice, we do not always have the luxury of running down river in the dark and being on site at daybreak with baits out. Fish are just like us-if they're not hungry/feeding, you could have their favorite bait in the world out, and they're just going to mill about and do whatever it is that fish do when they're not feeding. If you put a filet and lobster in front of me and I am stuffed full, it's not going to get eaten. Put in the time. If you're marking bait, and especially the occasional busting fish, it is wise to stay put. Even if you're slowly picking away at the fish-the old adage "Don't leave fish to find fish" is a good one to heed. However, if I pull up to a rig or section of weedline and am not marking anything, nor seeing any visual cues of abundant life below, after about an hour, sometimes less, I am packing up and moving to greener pastures.

Crew: Most any boat that spends enough time trolling a good color change or rip line, will get their shots at billfish. For ease of explanation, I am going to use trolling from a big sportfisher. It may be a white or sail knocking a bait out of the clip, a blue taking whacks at a bridge teaser or a dredge, or it may be a full on explosion on a rigger bait and instant hookup, best case scenario. I call this "dragging and snagging." Even the most inexperienced crew should get a billfish at some point in the year just by being in the right place at the right time. What distinguishes average crews from great crews is the ability to capitalize on swings and misses, and teaser hits. A white marlin is arguably one of the hardest fish to hook in the gulf of mexico. They have smaller mouths than blues and seem to be more interested in "playing" with their food whereas a hungry blue will go out of her way to eat when she is hungry and sees a good looking trolled bait, bowling over anything in her path and stopping at nothing. A great crew knows how to drop back the bait, or to pitch a bait to a finicky billfish. I don't do much trolling these days, but when I do, I prefer to fish just 2 long riggers and a shotgun, and anywhere from 2-3 (2 bridge at all times, one dredge depending on who I have in the pit), and bait and switch. Let me make note that at this point we are strictly targeting blue marlin, with large lures on the riggers and even larger teasers. The teasers are on the outside of the propwash in clean water, and raise a lot of ruckus. Ideally, I have someone next to me on the bridge whose only job is to watch the spread, in particular the teasers. That's it. He is looking for fish following them, underneath them, etc. He then is responsible for bringing the teasers in. At that point, I have alerted the crew that there is a fish on right teaser (port side of the vessel), left teaser, dredge, etc. They know to immediately fire out the pitch bait as soon as my teaser guy brings the teasers up out of the water. While an extremely productive method of fishing, it requires at least 4 people to run smoothly. The "other" guy in the cockpit, well, anyone else at that point, quickly reels in the rigger baits upon hookup on the pitch. A good crew also knows to keep working an area if they missed a billfish, because there is a good chance there are others around. Almost every white or sail I have seen from the bridge or tower was not alone when it came into the spread. Seen many a blue that came into the spread with a partner, as well.

When in doubt, and if fishing with an inexperienced crew, keep it simple. There is no need in having 7 lines in the water if there are only a couple people on the boat .That's a lot of crap to reel up quickly when you get a hot fish jumping all over the spread. A lot can go wrong real real fast.

The above mentioned are in no particular order.

-Capt. Woody Woods


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## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Fishing*

Agreed with most of it with one major exception the crew part should be moved to the #1 spot a bad attitude sours a trip for sure. As far as the rest it all depends on where you fish in La around the rigs water color and altemitry aren't all that important the river system always has bait and dirty water cause it is its own constant supply of nutrients no upwelling needed over there. The farther you get from the rigs and river mouth the more relevant altmetry and water color becomes. The bait and proper presentation is a given. The moon who knows not me that's for sure all I know is I don't spend my money to hunt or fish on a full moon excluding duck hunting of course


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

From a damn good friend of mine....
1. Get out there and fish: This is the rule I break the most, and is by far the most critical aspect of catching fish....lol. Not to downplay the importance of chlorophyll, color, structure, lure, etc. but as they say, can't catch em on the couch. 

2. Crew: you may have the best fishermen on the boat, but who cares if you're not following rule #3.

3. Have fun. 

4. Be a good sportsman and steward of the sea. What comes around goes around. Help a fellow fisherman find the fish, and you will be surprised how eager they may be to return the favor. Remember, Karma is a bitch!

Those are the most important aspects of fishing to me! 

The rest will follow. 

Oh, and I totally agree....what works for one crew, or for one area of the gulf, may not work for everyone. Follow 1-4 and figure out what works for you!!


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## MSViking (Oct 11, 2007)

Last week before the Blue Marlin Grand Championship, Thomas Hilton put on a seminar in which he discussed all the parameters that are available on his service. He talked about the immense data that he had compiled over the years and the comparisons of the fishing data to the parameters available by satellite imagery. He probably put more emphasis on altimetry than any other, no so much the transitional colors, but he did call the dark yellows and reds "deserts" that he would avoid at almost all costs. I don't have anywhere near the data Tom has, but I trust his findings. Just something to ponder.

Robert


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## iJabo (Jul 6, 2013)

I would say location of bait. You can troll spots for hours, but if the bait isn't there, the fish aren't there, simple as that.


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## atlantacapt (Oct 2, 2007)

observation from trolling the eastern gulf over to spur, but not yet over to rigs every day...altimetry doesn't mean jack....have caught great boxes in "terrible water" according to altimetry. It is all about 2) bait 3) structure 4) current on top of both. Importantly a strong #1 is crew. Throwing aside all of the rest, having fun and being optimistic (I.e. ALERT) catches fish. I only fish with select people on my boat because I know that we will have days that will be non-stop action. those are easy. However, every once in a while you have a day where things aren't happening. These are the days where a very engaged crew can find structure/etc. that lead to fish. I can recall quite a few days where an 8 hour troll in good water didn't result in jack, and then at the 11th hour it breaks loose and you walk home with high spirits with multiple good fish in boat. Those are the days that a lacsidasical/boring/asleep crew keeps the losing streak alive. I've had one fish days with fun crews that I are higher up in the memory bank than some 15 fish days...funny how that works.


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## Jsullivansnapper (Apr 19, 2012)

eddiem84 said:


> 1. Cold Beer


You beat me to it


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I have to disagree with the cold beer requirement. I took a customer and a bunch of Atlanta cops out on what should have been an epic day of fishing which turned out to be an almost bust.

Ran out to the Edge, put a spread out and headed south. It's a nice hot day and everyone is having beers to stay cool I guess. Needless to say slowly but surely they all end up inside in the nice air conditioned salon to relax and knock back beers. I told the last guy going inside that if they hear the horn blow get some people in the cockpit because a fish is on.

We found a huge weed line about half way between the Edge and the South Florida Slope that was loaded with fish. First fish on was a Marlin which threw the hook about the time a hand was laid on the rod. As the day went on the results got worse. A 15 knock down day and only one bull Dolphin was boated. It was the last fish, I put the auto pilot on brought it in, gaffed it, tossed it in the fish box, brought all the lines in and headed North to home while the crew slept off their beer buzz.

The owner and I both know that his buddies just wanted to come down here and party and they did. I just wish that they hadn't partied as hard as they did because they could have taken some great memories and photo's home with them if they hadn't.


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## eddiem84 (Nov 3, 2010)

Kim said:


> I have to disagree with the cold beer requirement. I took a customer and a bunch of Atlanta cops out on what should have been an epic day of fishing which turned out to be an almost bust.
> 
> Ran out to the Edge, put a spread out and headed south. It's a nice hot day and everyone is having beers to stay cool I guess. Needless to say slowly but surely they all end up inside in the nice air conditioned salon to relax and knock back beers. I told the last guy going inside that if they hear the horn blow get some people in the cockpit because a fish is on.
> 
> ...


Cold beer was more than anything another way of saying just to have fun. Some people whether they are drinking or not, are not going to sit and watch baits all day. Of course if you are going drink offshore you need to do it responsibly. Sounds like you should have taken your people snapper fishing.


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## SKATR JIM (Oct 2, 2007)

Kim said:


> I have to disagree with the cold beer requirement. I took a customer and a bunch of Atlanta cops out on what should have been an epic day of fishing which turned out to be an almost bust.
> 
> Ran out to the Edge, put a spread out and headed south. It's a nice hot day and everyone is having beers to stay cool I guess. Needless to say slowly but surely they all end up inside in the nice air conditioned salon to relax and knock back beers. I told the last guy going inside that if they hear the horn blow get some people in the cockpit because a fish is on.
> 
> ...


 
Sounds like an inexperienced crew.


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## bigtallluke (Jul 14, 2012)

SKATR JIM said:


> Sounds like an inexperienced crew.


Exactly..... I don't think you could even call them a "crew" based on that report. That had to be extremely frustrating to a captain who takes fishing seriously.

On another Note: Captain Woody Woods.... That was the best "article" that I have read in a while. It is very obvious that there is a ton if experience behind that post. I fish offshore/blue water as often as possible, and when I'm not fishing I'm reading and trying to learn as much as possible from whoever or wherever I can. Thank you for spending the time to write such detailed information on here.... It was of great value to me!! I'm surprised no one has commented on your response untill now. Thank you


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## Scruggspc (Mar 20, 2013)

bigtallluke said:


> Exactly..... I don't think you could even call them a "crew" based on that report. That had to be extremely frustrating to a captain who takes fishing seriously.
> 
> On another Note: Captain Woody Woods.... That was the best "article" that I have read in a while. It is very obvious that there is a ton if experience behind that post. I fish offshore/blue water as often as possible, and when I'm not fishing I'm reading and trying to learn as much as possible from whoever or wherever I can. Thank you for spending the time to write such detailed information on here.... It was of great value to me!! I'm surprised no one has commented on your response untill now. Thank you


Luke I don't know if I told you but I got to fish with woody the other day. Man did I learn some stuff about tuna fishing!!!!


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## bigtallluke (Jul 14, 2012)

Scruggspc said:


> Luke I don't know if I told you but I got to fish with woody the other day. Man did I learn some stuff about tuna fishing!!!!


No I didn't know that, but that is awesome! I take it that he was on the hyer standards boat on that last trip out where you caught all those tuna?! Sounded like a blast, and I bet he did share some very valuable knowledge! Harris don't be shy to drop me a line any time you want to talk fishing, or share your report....I can't get enough of it lol. We need to go back to the rigs so you can show me some of the stuff you learned from Captain Woody, and we can wear the tuna out! Sorry to derail the thread guys...


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

bigtallluke said:


> Exactly..... I don't think you could even call them a "crew" based on that report. That had to be extremely frustrating to a captain who takes fishing seriously.
> 
> On another Note: Captain Woody Woods.... That was the best "article" that I have read in a while. It is very obvious that there is a ton if experience behind that post. I fish offshore/blue water as often as possible, and when I'm not fishing I'm reading and trying to learn as much as possible from whoever or wherever I can. Thank you for spending the time to write such detailed information on here.... It was of great value to me!! I'm surprised no one has commented on your response untill now. Thank you


Thanks for the kind words there. Happy to pass along some knowledge!


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