# Hill Kelley Dodge warning advise on service



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Warning before taking your Dodge in for service. My 2003 Dodge 2500 cummins Diesel less than 80000 miles was getting hard to start. More so when at an angle like when launching at boat ramp. It got so bad I had to use starting fluid a couple times. Once the truck started it would run flawless, No smoke,No missing perfect I tried two other repair shops that could not find the problem after having the truck for a week. Both shops threw there hands up and refused to take a cent for the extensive time they tried to find the problem. The hard starting was observed by both shops on several occasions. I was told by both shops to go to a dodge dealer that had the cummins software. 
I took the truck down to Hill Kelley Dodge with a two paragraph note of what had taken place with the two shops. They told me it would be $100 for the computer hookup and analysts. They called me the next day and said they needed 3 more hours at $100 an hour to further check it out. I said OK go to it. Friday day two I called and asked if it was ready they said they needed another day to check it thoroughly. I called Monday and was told they had retorqued the injectors and I needed to change ALL 6 injectors and a High pressure relief valve. I questioned why the needed to replace ALL the injectors. Get this, WE don't have the tool required to check each injector. And I said why the HP relief valve and the injectors. No response. Now for the joke the estimated repair bill would be $5,400 sum dollars I cant remember the exact amount. I told him I would pick up my truck in an hour. And that a 3$ can of starter fluid sounds like a better solution to me. I picked the truck up and told them I would only pay the $100 analysis fee. He did not argue with me but told me he would have to pay the mechanic out of his pocket the $300. Yeh when pigs fly:yes: over the moon. 
Now here's the funny part that really pisses me off. The Truck has been starting perfect ever since it left the shop. Could they have reset something with the computer that fixed the hard starting? No proof and I called and asked that question the adviser said no all they did was re torque the injectors. I wonder why they didn't check to see if that corrected the problem. No I don't wonder WHY $$$$$$$$$ Is the reason. Be careful and try Gary Sapp automotive or Mason at Gulf Breeze Automotive first they are the two that refused any payment for all the checking they performed. If I didn't have some knowledge of diesel engines I would have been screwed out of over $5000. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Emerald Ghost (Mar 11, 2008)

You need to go buy a Lotto ticket !


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Emerald Ghost said:


> You need to go buy a Lotto ticket !


If I did and won I still wouldn't fall for that crap. I'm watching a hill kelly pay it forward. Wonder what unknowing sucker paid dearly for that.


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

You holler at BigDaddy.....he may be able to tell you a bit:thumbsup:


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Jason said:


> You holler at BigDaddy.....he may be able to tell you a bit:thumbsup:


Thanks Jason. It's running great now. No need to take it any further.


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## wld1985 (Oct 2, 2007)

I thought I read somewhere, Starting Fluid was bad for the diesels? I've got a Duramax and took it to Travis at Gulf Coast, he did all the injectors.. Was'nt too bad of a price after everything was said and done.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

people dont use their brains these days its all about computers that way they dont feel they are misleading by asking for big bucks for the repair 10 years ago a decent mechanic would start with the quickest cheapest fix and work up these days they start with how to charge u the most and u have to bargin down dealerships are the worst glad it worked out


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## afishanado (Oct 26, 2009)

If I can't trust the service department, I won't be purchasing from the dealership again....


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

fuel transfer pump check out ok.....run fine after started?
Go to Turbodieselregister.com and post it in the engine section for 3rd gen trucks. 
Probably have an answer in 1/2hr

I bought my Dodge over in Foley and have had good luck there.


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## Buckyt (Oct 1, 2007)

I purchased my Ram 1500 from Foley 5 years ago and had to take it in for the 5 year check up to keep the lifetime warranty going. They were great to deal with. They even took us to Soldiers Creek golf course and picked us up so we didn't have to wait for the work to be done.


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Hey Ron:

https://www.injectorsdirect.com/product/5-9-2003-2004-5-bosch-oem-brand-new-fuel-injectors/

These are what you have now. A lot cheaper than Hill Kelley. I wonder if HK was gonna charge you the core charge and keep it? That was just the first google search that popped up...

There are injector tests and ways to test the rail pressure:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?245708-diagnosing-bad-injectors

The general consensus is that cheaper injectors are not always better. I'm saving my pennies for a new set of Bosch 50HP over stock cause I have 120K and its probably time to be thinking about them.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Bill I've done all that i'm a member at diesel register. The first two places I took it to were diesel smart with all the latest available computers just not the special ones Dodge has. two injectors were suspected and changed without any change. I can and have overhauled 6-71s and understand the diesel system. I could post three pages of what was checked and tried. The killer is it's running and starting fine now and it has never ran bad at all after the hard starting. No fuel in the oil (dilution) I even took my cabover 1000 miles and the milage was perfect and ran fine. Maybe it was just a quirk that lasted for 6 months. I don't fault hill kelley except trying to say ALL 6 injectors were bad and the HP relief valve needed replacement. Hell that's the complete HP system except the piping. What happened was the HP system 25000 psi was leaking down somewhat and it was taking time to refill it to where it would start. Yes the first thing I had done was replace the lift pump. I wouldn't replace any injectors in your truck unless there is a problem. I had on my 91 dodge cummins close to 300 k and never had a single sputter or fuel problem. The Gouge and Bull is what I am complaining about. Oh and when I picked it up the adviser started it and said Oh the rail pressure did come up a little. All I wanted to know before posting this is what was wrong with it for future reference. Just maybe they don't really know either or the re torquing of the injectors that was done by the other two mechanics did the job. Like Reagan said trust but verify....


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## Spoolin Up (May 3, 2011)

I have worked on the 8.3 cummins in the bigger trucks and it uses the same type injection system. Cummins sells a tool. Basically you block off each injector until it fires. You screw a cap onto the supply tube in the picture listed above and it deadheads each cylinder. It sounds to me like the supply tube was a little loose going into the injector, that would cause problems also. If your engine is set up the same way they would of had to take the valve cover off to actually tighten the injector itself down.


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## mongo (Apr 30, 2008)

I had the same experience with that place. My 2002 Ram was idling very high at red lights and wouldn't start unless I held the gas pedal partially down. It would also rev to over 2500 rpms for no reason and would sometimes stall when I came to a stop. First visit to Hill Kelly got me a new battery and cables which they claimed would mess with the computer if weak. Parts+labor ended up being around $350.00 It ran okay for about 2 days then started doing the same stuff as before. Another trip to Hill Kelly, another $150.00, this time it lasted one day. They wanted me to leave it with them for a couple of days to run diagnostic tests on it, they'd work with me on the costs of course (yeah right) Instead, I went to the all powerful Google and within five minutes found that the problem was a faulty throttle position sensor. Another two minutes and I had found a video on Youtube showing how to replace it. I called Hill Kelly for an estimate just for giggles and was told around 250-300 dollars. I bought the part myself for 15 bucks and fixed it within 30 minutes. They also wanted to charge me several thousand dollars to replace my ball joints because they told me that my model truck has rivets that need to be air chiseled out in order to remove the ball joints. I could tell that a ball joint press could just push them out but they told me I was wrong. I bought all the parts myself for around $150, watched another youtube video, and did it myself in a day. With a ball joint press they popped right out. I called Hill Kelly to let them know, thinking that it may save them some time or a customer some money in the future but they told me that it just wasn't how they do it and they would continue chiseling out the rivets. Which, by the way, means the customer then has to buy the aftermarket bolt on package when the parts go back on.


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## Spoolin Up (May 3, 2011)

dockmaster said:


> Hey Ron:
> 
> https://www.injectorsdirect.com/product/5-9-2003-2004-5-bosch-oem-brand-new-fuel-injectors/
> 
> ...


Please be careful buying cheaper injectors. I had a customer supply his d max injectors and the o rings failed. So i had to do the job twice and re o ring with good quality parts. Its not worth it guys. Buy local and your truck wont be sitting when .com is trying to bust your balls on the warranty


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks thats how gary sapp tested and changed the two injectors. They didn't help the bad start so he put the old ones back in. I know the reputation about rebuilt injectors. As long as it continues to start and it has always run flawless i will run the hell out of it. It's started fine through about 40 or 50 starts. It seems to be fine now. I never have simple problems. Just went and tried it and it fired after one or two revs. I wonder if there are any adjustments that there computer software could make?


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

okay dumb question..........is this "re-torquing" what I think it is or something different with these injectors? 

i.e. turn clockwise with a wrench.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

weedline said:


> people dont use their brains these days its all about computers that way they dont feel they are misleading by asking for big bucks for the repair 10 years ago a decent mechanic would start with the quickest cheapest fix and work up these days they start with how to charge u the most and u have to bargin down dealerships are the worst glad it worked out


Today there are so many interacting sensors that communicate with the computer that if one sensor does not, it won't run right.
No mechanical problem, just a bad sensor or connection.
Thus you need mega $$ testing equipment that will hopefully tell you which sensor is bad.


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## Spoolin Up (May 3, 2011)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> okay dumb question..........is this "re-torquing" what I think it is or something different with these injectors?
> 
> i.e. turn clockwise with a wrench.


Yea just tighten with torque wrench. Clockwise


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> Today there are so many interacting sensors that communicate with the computer that if one sensor does not, it won't run right.
> No mechanical problem, just a bad sensor or connection.
> Thus you need mega $$ testing equipment that will hopefully tell you which sensor is bad.


Well if thats what was wrong with mine I would have gladly paid for an absorbent couple hundred bucks charge to get it replaced. Then everyone would be happy. I guess they possibly rolled the dice and lost this time. Who knows, thanks for all the replys.


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

thanks for the info on the gulf breeze mechanics!!!


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## Flguy32514 (Sep 16, 2012)

When I had my 99 cummins I can vouch for everything here about Hill Kelly, they pulled the same crap on me. Also had the sales folks pull a bait and switch on me


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## Mike aka FishWerks (Oct 22, 2007)

Good info. TTT :thumbup:


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks Mike, I just got a letter from HKD asking me if I was pleased with my visit. I am going to call them tomorrow and refer them to these posts. So keep the complaints coming I know there are a lot of others that say the hell with complaining it makes me look like a crybaby. I say bull it's the only way to help the unknowing people. If the call doesn't do any good I will call corporate dodge after Xmas. Merry Xmas to everyone.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

sealark said:


> Well if thats what was wrong with mine I would have gladly paid for an absorbent couple hundred bucks charge to get it replaced. Then everyone would be happy. I guess they possibly rolled the dice and lost this time. Who knows, thanks for all the replys.


If it seems to now be cured with no apparent fix having been done, perhaps there is a connector(s) that were separated in order to do some diagnosis.

And when reconnected, a bad or corroded connection was cured by the wiping action?

That has happened to me on gas vehicles.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> If it seems to now be cured with no apparent fix having been done, perhaps there is a connector(s) that were separated in order to do some diagnosis.
> 
> And when reconnected, a bad or corroded connection was cured by the wiping action?
> 
> That has happened to me on gas vehicles.


Could be and if it wasn't a scam for $ why didn't they just say what it was and I would have paid the full $400 bill and left happily with a fixed truck. There computer should and probably did tell them something in a certain area is not correct. 5 days in the shop 4 days using your assumption cost me $ for lack of use with diveable weather.


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## speckledcroaker (Mar 23, 2012)

Nowadays you can go online and pickup an ELM372 connector cable for a laptop for around $17 dollars and download testing software for free or for a few bucks, in my case $15 dollars and I can run realtime diagnostics and reset all trouble codes. If your vehicle is equipped with obd2 diag port there is no reason to take it to dealership any more.


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## speckledcroaker (Mar 23, 2012)

correction: should have been elm327. you can also get them wireless Bluetooth to work with smartphone.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

speckledcroaker said:


> correction: should have been elm327. you can also get them wireless Bluetooth to work with smartphone.


Go back and read the complete post. Dodge has the only computer to completly test. There have never been any codes on my truck.


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## speckledcroaker (Mar 23, 2012)

all dealerships say they have the only testers. if fault codes are stored in memory they can be retrieved. the testing software I mentioned does realtime diagnostics this means while the engine is running you can monitor fuel pressures and injector performance.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

My experience with them was very different although I have only been there one time.
My problem is massive electrical problems with a 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee. "common problem with that year "
it runs like a top and always has with a 4.0 cast iron 6 cly but all gages work intermittently and all instrument lights come on and off while driving. windows will not roll down and the Air Conditioner will stop working , left turn signal will also stop working unless you disconnect / reconnect the battery and then this work again. the computer has been replaced and changed nothing so I took it Hill Kelly and turned it over to " Bruce "
He had his people work on it , gave me a ride home , later picked me up and said it couldn't be fixed! he charged me nothing! I was impressed with charging me nothing.
I put a quick release leaver on the negative side of the battery and every few days my wife has to flip it one way and then back.
instruments still do crazy things but everything else works after the reset.


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## aknavy (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm not impressed with their service... was leaving yesterday to travel to Michigan and service 4wd came on in the Jeep... stopped to see if it was still engaging front axle, or if I was just turning the rear (Quadra trac II), and if it was gonna give me any problems. $100 diagnosis later, they quoted an $800 repair with back ordered parts with no estimated date of arrival, and never answered my question. Ended up just spinning the tires to ensure front axle was engaging. Only thing not working is 4 low.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Ron, I'm still scratching my head at why you bought a dodge. Each to his own. BTW, you and yours have a very Merry Christmas.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Burnt Drag said:


> Ron, I'm still scratching my head at why you bought a dodge. Each to his own. BTW, you and yours have a very Merry Christmas.


This is my second one and to be honest not my last one. The inline six is in my opinion is better than any V engine. And the cummins is tops. My first 91 dodge had over 300K on it never had a problem. This one has just been a minor inconvenience and has always ran flawlessly. I bought the 91 from HKD and tried to buy this 03 from them but I saved 1500 bucks after buying a plane ticket to Dallas and driving the new truck back to Pensacola.


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

From my experience, the elm327 will only reade one (the ECM) of the 2 boxes on a Dodge Cummins. ECM and PCM. The PCM has all the good info you want like EGT, oil pressure and what not. I have 3 different programs on my phone and they all read the same stuff, Nothing that is terrible useful!! You can read codes by turning the key and holding the odometer button....
If anyone knows how to read the PCM on a 2005 Dodge Cumminswith an ELM327, I'm all ears..... 
Sounds like HK is in the upsale business once they get your truck or car.
I just had differental work done in MI over turkey day and the Dodge dealer showed me the problem, showed me when parts would be there and showed me a price that didnt change one penny..... And told the local PNS company the discrepancies with their work so I could get a refund for everything. 
I have never been impressed with HK service managers. Wont even consider shopping there since there sales team wouldn't come off the price of a new truck for 200 bucks to match Foley....haven't been back since.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

sealark said:


> This is my second one and to be honest not my last one. The inline six is in my opinion is better than any V engine. And the cummins is tops. My first 91 dodge had over 300K on it never had a problem. This one has just been a minor inconvenience and has always ran flawlessly. I bought the 91 from HKD and tried to buy this 03 from them but I saved 1500 bucks after buying a plane ticket to Dallas and driving the new truck back to Pensacola.


I thought I was the only one who'd do that. I bought the wife a 2011 Camry about that much cheaper than I could here in Houston. It seems around here, 60,000 miles on a 2 year old car is "low miles"... The camry had 19,500 on it. Texas Direct has great deals.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

In conclusion, the truck has started at least 50 times without an incident. I have called and asked Mike the adviser that handled my case. He claims all they did was retorque the injectors. Hard to beleive after that was suppose to have been done twice before without any improvement. Oh well just do your homework before believing hill kelley Dodge service. All I really wanted to know was what was REALLY wrong and corrected.


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