# FWC approved LF population control plan



## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Well, It's not the aggressive plan that was submitted to the FWC but I hope that this scaled down version will be successful just the same. Here it is: 

*Lionfish beware: FWC approves two-part lionfish removal effort for 2016* 

At its April 13 meeting in Jupiter, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) approved a two-part lionfish plan to further encourage removals of the invasive species in 2016.
Lionfish have a potential negative impact on native wildlife and habitat and the FWC encourages divers and anglers to remove them from Florida waters whenever they can. 

The two-part initiative will include a statewide reward program that will expand upon 2015 efforts and a Panhandle Pilot Program. 
“Innovative programs like these are a great way to generate public involvement and interest in controlling the lionfish population,” said FWC Chairman Brian Yablonski. “Those that remove lionfish not only get rewarded for their efforts, but they also get the experience of helping manage Florida’s fisheries. In addition, involving Florida’s residents and visitors helps us gather better data to continuously evaluate and improve our approach to invasive species control.” 

*Statewide Program*
To qualify in the statewide program, participants must remove 50 or more lionfish between Lionfish Removal and Awareness Day (May 14, 2016) and the end of September. Qualified participants will receive a commemorative coin to mark their membership and an event T-shirt; be featured in the FWC Lionfish Hall of Fame on the MyFWC.com website; be entered in drawings to win prizes including fishing licenses, lionfish harvesting equipment, fuel cards and dive tank refills; and, if qualified before the relevant fishing seasons start, they will have the opportunity to take an additional spiny lobster per day during the 2016 mini-season (July 27-28). FWC will also consider allowing the opportunity to harvest an additional bag limit per day of bay scallops during Labor Day weekend (Sept. 3-5, 2016), where population can support harvest.

Qualifying lionfish must be counted via an FWC approved process such as a sponsored tournament or a check-in location. These locations will be listed online at MyFWC.com/Lionfish. All other fishing regulations still apply.



The person who “checks in” the most lionfish between the Lionfish Removal and Awareness Day kick-off and the end of September will be crowned Florida’s Lionfish King or Queen and will receive a lifetime saltwater fishing license, have his or her photograph featured on the cover of the FWC’s January 2017 saltwater regulations publication, be featured on MyFWC.com’s Lionfish Hall of Fame, and be recognized at the November 2016 Commission meeting.

*Panhandle Pilot Program*
The Panhandle Pilot Program will focus on lionfish removal efforts off Escambia, Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, Walton, Bay, Gulf and Franklin counties, where lionfish can be found in high densities. For every 100 lionfish harvested from this seven-county region between May 2016 and May 2017, the harvester will be eligible to receive a tag allowing them to take either a legal-sized red grouper or a legal-sized cobia that is over the bag limit from state waters. The state will issue 100 red grouper and 30 cobia tags in total to successful participants in the pilot program. In addition, any person or group that harvests 500 or more lionfish during this one-year period will be given the opportunity to name an artificial reef.

The FWC will be working to establish as many lionfish check-in locations as possible between now and May 14, and lionfish recorded at FWC-sponsored tournaments will automatically count. A list of tournaments and check-in locations will be available on MyFWC.com/Lionfish prior to May 14.

Learn more about lionfish, including the two-day FWC hosted Lionfish Removal and Awareness Day Festival (May 14-15) in Pensacola at MyFWC.com/Lionfish or ReefRangers.com.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

Hey Candy....so I don't want to come across as being "down" on you....here's the truth....this either shows the total ignorance of the people making these decisions or ....even worse.....demonstrates thier willingness to intentionally cause your idea to fail....either way....its a disgrace (not you...the "powers to be" who adopted this) and here's why.

How many divers do you think will take the time to register 100 kills for MAYBE ....(it doesn't say garaunteed) 1 Cobia tag or 1 R.G. tag. 

first...I don't know many divers in this area that ever killed over 1 cobia in a day or 2 Red Grouper in a day...furthermore, it's been at least 8-10 years since the last storm pushed any quantity of Red Grouper into the State Waters... most of the Pensacola R.G are beyond the state waters. Its a total joke....maybe even played on you! I applaud you for trying but their "agenda" is more important than success of any program...I believe that they've agreed to this to show your proposal will fail "proving" that private citizen divers can't solve this (which they can't but there's nothing "man" can do citizen or government) in order to show the only "solution" is to throw more money at it.

do you know many divers? would you really think this would provide any ADDTIONAL motivation to attack lionfish? 

the closest "man-made" solution is developing a commercial market such that it's lucrative for divers to persue them.


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## DMcBride (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't know if it's the best solution but at least it's something. I was already looking forward to cleaning out some lion fish this summer and now I get the option of naming a reef ha! Sounds like there could be some other little perks in there too.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

So D. I have an honest question for you...
I see you're from Birmingham so perhaps you're not even familiar with the fishery here. (not meant as an insult....for all I know you grew up here and know it better than I do) but the ability to earn an additional tag for Cobia...or Red Grouper...or even hitting the magic 500 and "naming a reef" does that add ADDITIONAL MOTIVATION for you to more aggressively target lionfish....and be careful, by your own admission, you were already looking forward to cleaning them out.

Now had they offered an additional Snapper (which we all know are the most overpopulated of the game fish in this region) that might've been a deal maker....I really hate to sound so conspiratorial but I'm thinking they want this to fail.

I know, I won't chase a "check-in" station for the tag nor the right to name a reef 



DMcBride said:


> I don't know if it's the best solution but at least it's something. I was already looking forward to cleaning out some lion fish this summer and now I get the option of naming a reef ha! Sounds like there could be some other little perks in there too.


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## DMcBride (Oct 23, 2013)

I do live in Birmingham but am from Pensacola and get back fairly often. I don't disagree with you on the motivation factor. My point was that it's a start and is better than what we had which was nothing.


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## NKlamerus (Jan 4, 2016)

BillyBob I get the notion you're upset?

I'm pretty happy with the current plan, even if it doesn't get people out there to kill, it will educate them. 

Obviously they are holding back some prizes, if the CCA can get boats and a truck donated for 1 tagged redfish the state could too. 

I don't see the check-in station list on the website? Not posted yet?


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Let divers get a free license to sell their lionfish!!!!! And let them sell to any restaurant willing to serve it. That would put a dent.


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## TONER (Mar 25, 2008)

Telum Pisces said:


> Let divers get a free license to sell their lionfish!!!!! And let them sell to any restaurant willing to serve it. That would put a dent.


+1 I agree that would be the best way to control them. Free market Capitolism.


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## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

Telum Pisces said:


> Let divers get a free license to sell their lionfish!!!!! And let them sell to any restaurant willing to serve it. That would put a dent.



Or just sell them to whoever wants to buy them and help fund the trip...


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Snagged Line said:


> Or just sell them to whoever wants to buy them and help fund the trip...


That too. Invasive species should have all restrictions and limitations lifted that could possibly get in the way of allowing people to profit off of it. Money talks!!! Money motivates people.


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Billybob, 
I think you have the political side correct. There was no way the regs were going to give red snap, trig, gag tags in leau of lionfish. 

I do applaud them for doing something. Myself and DMcbride killed some lionfish last year and we expect to kill alot more this tear. Heck, I like free stuff and I always need tshirts. 

I have already been crafting a name for a reef...


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

I just simply refuse to believe that they set this up with the intention of INCREASING lionfish production...I base that on common sense.....

I'd like an HONEST answer to one simple question...

in the last 5-10 years has anyone actually harvested thier limit of Red Grouper or Cobia in State Waters and had opporuntity to harvest additonal fish had they been given the opportunity? (O.K..MAYBE Cobia if you are a diver and double as one of those folks that LIVE for Cobia Season...though many of them are sportsmen and wouldn't want to keep an extra anyway...they'd rather return it to the fishery)

Again, I'm not trying to be disrepectful to Candy....I think her plan was a reasonable one (Though Telium's 5 minute, one sentence plan was exponentially better for truly stepping up lionfish irradication) 

I think that the way they've morphed Candy's plan with fish that aren't even abundant has to have a reason behind it. So if they gave out that same 100 tags but for Red Snapper instead of Red Grouper, does anyone believe that would irreversably jeoparize the Red Snapper fishery here in N.W. FL?

None of this makes sense why they would've done it that way unless the "decison makers" were A) totally ignorant or B) intentionally planning to have the Pilot fail.

I've talked to several of my diving friends who spearfish. without one exception, they've all stated that they would not be bringing fish by the check-points because there would be no value in it. ( as for having a "reef" named after you.....send me your "naming request"....I find 3-4 new ones a trip....I'm always struggling for new names...I'd be happy to name one in your honor:whistling


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Billybob+ said:


> in the last 5-10 years has anyone actually harvested thier limit of Red Grouper or Cobia in State Waters and had opporuntity to harvest additonal fish had they been given the opportunity? (O.K..MAYBE Cobia if you are a diver and double as one of those folks that LIVE for Cobia Season...though many of them are sportsmen and wouldn't want to keep an extra anyway...they'd rather return it to the fishery)
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to be disrepectful to Candy....I think her plan was a reasonable one (Though Telium's 5 minute, one sentence plan was exponentially better for truly stepping up lionfish irradication)
> 
> I think that the way they've morphed Candy's plan with fish that aren't even abundant has to have a reason behind it. So if they gave out that same 100 tags but for Red Snapper instead of Red Grouper, does anyone believe that would irreversably jeoparize the Red Snapper fishery here in N.W. FL?



I see what you are saying, but red grouper are super abundant in the Gulf in general. Not particularly out of Pensacola, but that's a small area when we talk about the whole region. There are plenty of them in state waters from Destin and to the East.

My brother lives in St Pete and can get a limit of red grouper for everyone on his boat in less than a half hour. I agree, for the Pensacola area an extra red grouper tag doesn't help you much, but for 95% of the Gulf it does.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

you are probably right about East of Destin...I don't know that fishery at all...I was refering to Pensacola specifically....as for St Pete the Pilot is for the N.W counties only

fish removal efforts off Escambia, Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, Walton, Bay, Gulf and Franklin counties

I'd still say if this Pilot is truly placed in action with hopes for a rousing success they'd have done well to offer Snapper and that would've benefited the entire 7 county region.


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## TONER (Mar 25, 2008)

sniperpeeps said:


> I see what you are saying, but red grouper are super abundant in the Gulf in general. Not particularly out of Pensacola, but that's a small area when we talk about the whole region. There are plenty of them in state waters from Destin and to the East.
> 
> My brother lives in St Pete and can get a limit of red grouper for everyone on his boat in less than a half hour. I agree, for the Pensacola area an extra red grouper tag doesn't help you much, but for 95% of the Gulf it does.


I dive in Destin a lot in the winter and have yet to see a red grouper I state waters


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

TONER said:


> I dive in Destin a lot in the winter and have yet to see a red grouper I state waters




Do you dive lots of low relief hard bottom? Because they are there, in good numbers. I do best on them spring and fall.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Billybob+ said:


> you are probably right about East of Destin...I don't know that fishery at all...I was refering to Pensacola specifically....as for St Pete the Pilot is for the N.W counties only
> 
> fish removal efforts off Escambia, Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, Walton, Bay, Gulf and Franklin counties
> 
> I'd still say if this Pilot is truly placed in action with hopes for a rousing success they'd have done well to offer Snapper and that would've benefited the entire 7 county region.




I don't disagree that snapper would have been a better option, but there are 5 out of 7 counties that have plenty of RGs. I just hope they kill as many lion fish as possible, however possible. We caught one on hook and line a couple weeks ago, wish there was a way to target them in that way also.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

S.P. first. thanks for debating this honestly and not reducing it to insults.


So just so you know, we DON'T disagree that the lionfish population is alarming, and we'd both agree that they need to be "knocked down" so don't lose the point I was trying to make...it's not the need for action it's simply this....is the pilot, as currently written, going to significantly increase anyone's pursuit of lionfish...and I say...as written ...no..
will there be lionfish checked in? perhaps a few but of those how many would've been harvested anyway? I for one, collect 50-100 per trip but none of them will ever see a checkpoint because there's no incentive for me to deliver them

.
I spoke yesterday with a fisherman/captain who I consider the premier grouper fisherman on the Panhandle coast yesterday without mentioning the pilot I asked him could he catch a limit of red grouper east of Destin and he said "oh yes" when I pressed him about staying in State waters he said "probably not, there just aren't that many" when he asked why I explained the pilot and asked him should i receive one of these tags would he like it and he said he'd really not need it because being limited to state waters it wouldnt be of value to him.


Now Im not saying this to bring into question wether you could or not, I just use this as anticdotal evidence that even in the area where you're refering to, it'd be of little to no value to the average fisherman. I suspect, you being a charter, probably have far better numbers than most.


Candy...if we haven't lost you....are YOU happy with this proposal as written? do you HONESLY believe it will incentivize divers in the NW panhandle to increase lionfish production beyond what we currently collect?
thanks


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Billybob+ said:


> S.P. first. thanks for debating this honestly and not reducing it to insults.
> 
> 
> So just so you know, we DON'T disagree that the lionfish population is alarming, and we'd both agree that they need to be "knocked down" so don't lose the point I was trying to make...it's not the need for action it's simply this....is the pilot, as currently written, going to significantly increase anyone's pursuit of lionfish...and I say...as written ...no..
> ...



I guess I feel like at least they are doing something. It's a step. 

Maybe next year it could be a gag tag redeemable anytime season is closed. That would be pretty good incentive.


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## aquatic argobull (Mar 2, 2009)

If we are good, next year they might give us an extra snowy grouper over the limit in state water. Maybe even a golden tilefish if we are lucky. I was pretty disappointed when I saw this "offer" of an extra red grouper or cobia in state water. 

I personally am not planning to check in any lionfish for the purposes of getting extra fish tags. If it's a super convenient location, I might do it for the T-shirt.


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## DMcBride (Oct 23, 2013)

It would be nice if they could outsource some of the check in locations to local dive shops. I'm not speaking for the dive shops and maybe they wouldn't want the responsibility but it would be convenient to divers that are going there anyway to return tanks, clean gear etc.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Billybob+ said:


> Candy...if we haven't lost you....are YOU happy with this proposal as written? do you HONESLY believe it will incentivize divers in the NW panhandle to increase lionfish production beyond what we currently collect?
> thanks



Yep, I'm still here. Just wanted to see what you guys really thought of the FWC's proposal. 

First BillyBob+, you aren't the only one that thought that the FWC wanted to sabotage the ECRA proposal and then claim it wasn't a success. I can't tell you how many people have called me with the same conspiracy theory. In any event, they can't say the ECRA plan didn't work because they didn't let us implement our plan that would have given divers 10 native fish, 2 each of 5 different species, that they could harvest in-or-out of season. Our plan was designed to give divers plenty of chances to put native fish in their cooler. ECRA's plan would have cost the taxpayers 2,500 zip ties with the FWC logo on it but instead, they are going to spend a quarter of a million dollars growing the size of their agency and managing programs that appear to be designed to fail. Most of the grant money they have to dole out will go to NGO's that charge divers to participate in derbies then keep their fish so the NGO can sell it. Divers are going to catch on to that scam sooner or later and revolt. 

When I had a conference call with the FWC about their version of our plan, I told them we didn't have many red groupers in state waters and that the only way using that fish alone would motivate divers is if they made a deal with the feds to allow you to harvest in federal waters. They said they couldn't do that. Well, they CAN do that...they just don't want to. 

I told them that divers rarely get one cobia on any given day. Their chances of getting two are slim since once you shoot one, the rest continue swimming away. They don't hang around waiting for their turn to join their buddy on your stringer. Also, the cobia run is seasonal and the time they're here in numbers is short, again limiting your opportunities. 

Gag grouper isn't on a rebuilding plan so I said, ok...you are good with red grouper and cobia, let's add gag grouper. They said they couldn't because they believed the GC was going to cut access to gag. One week later the GC increased the gag season. I sent that notice to the FWC... crickets. 

I suggested they allow you to have Red Snapper because it is the most abundant native fish in the panhandle and they said they couldn't do that because they were still undergoing re-building from over-fishing. Don't get me started on this one.

When they asked me about naming a reef, I told them that most divers could care less because they already name everything they put in their GPS. I told them if they offered to deploy a private reef for you that I was sure that would motivate you but, they weren't interested in doing that.

The recognition on the FWC website doesn't cost them a dime and I think they should do this but I don't think very many people are going to be highly motivated by having their names listed and getting a special coin...unless that coin is solid gold. 

What is my take? The FWC doesn't really want to control the lionfish crisis. They want to manage the crisis that they are responsible for creating with their insufficient actions over the past 3 decades. Evidently, fishery managers like to manage problems, not solve them.

What did the FWC do when they were given money for tournaments in 2015? They blew $52,000.00 on a big shin-dig in downtown Pensacola but only provided $5,000.00 to a NGO for prize money for the divers who went diving *during a small craft advisory*! If I am remembering right, the divers only took home about $3,600.00 of that money. The FWC spent more than twice as much money on the Fricking jumbo-tron to impress the NON-diving crowd than they did on rewarding divers! For some reason, that doesn't sit well with me. 

When I brought that up at an FWC LF meeting in Orlando, I was told they were educating the non-diving public to build demand for lionfish. Well, they aren't business owners so they don't understand that the best way to build demand is to have a reasonably priced product and a reliable supply chain. _( If they want to support lionfish killing business building, get out of the way by getting rid of regulations!)
_
I have asked the FWC to get rid of the SPL requirement for the lionfish to remove several legal problems for divers and to allow them to sell directly to the restaurants. The FWC won't do it even though all it would take would be an executive order that wouldn't cost the taxpayers a dime. 

*Well, here is the BEST news for everyone:* Since 2013, I have asked the FWC what their goal was with the lionfish. They never had one. 

If you notice on their proposal, the state made a goal of removing 25,000 lionfish statewide this year and 12,500 lionfish will be removed from the panhandle. AWESOME, they have a goal now and we can hold them accountable to reach those goals! It's unfortunate they made it so hard on themselves to achieve.

One last thing: A GIANT Thank You to over 500 of you who have supported our plan. Don't give up on it just yet. If the FWC doesn't succeed, ECRA's proposal is still here and ready to implement anytime...

To end this post, I will say that I sincerely do hope the FWC plan is successful because our fishery is in real trouble. I for one will continue to kill lionfish every time I dive. I hope you will too.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

WOW Candy!! frist, I'd like to say, you sound a lot more like me then I'd have ever imagined......don't know if that's an insult or complement to you:whistling:

Second....25000 lionfish would be about 1 breeding females yearly production of adult sized fish for the year....big whoopie there!

They want your plan to FAIL.....and ....in THIER MIND....it is YOUR PLAN!

no....you DON'T have a plan sitting in the wings to try next go round....this IS your plan as they see it.

they want it to fail because ultimately it's about increasing thier budget...
what was it that Rahm Emanuel told the press..."Never let a good crisis go without fully exploiting it"

sorry Candy...I now have a much greater appreciation for you............but ....in the end........YOU"VE BEEN DUPED!


I am greatful to you though that you did share with us that others had the same concerns as I do...


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

OH....and by the way.....you said there cost of this was "..........instead, they are going to spend a quarter of a million dollars......."

hell....I'll PERSONALLY see to it that 25000 are removed from JUST the panhandle for $250k


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

First Billybob+, if they want my plan to fail, they'll have to let us implement it first. I think you'll agree that if they did that, we would be wildly successful! 

Now, here is some sad news for you. *A single breeding lionfish can release 30,000 eggs every 2-4 days.* Yes, their plan to remove 25K statewide is an embarrassment for a well funded agency that is charged with protecting our fishery but... look at it this way:

By removing 25 thousand lionfish they will be removing about 12,500 females that each would be releasing 2 million+ eggs per year. So, it will be good to remove 25K lionfish. Those 25K lionfish would eat around 19.5 MILLION of our native fish in a single year! Should we strive to remove them? You Bet we should! 

Should the FWC set more ambitious goals for the State? I think so. They're a well funded and well staffed agency. They should be going after these lionfish as if the future of our native fishery depends upon their effective management action. It does!


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