# Old School Spinning Rods



## Charlie2

I saw the old 8' Fiberglass, large Wire guide ringed, COF guides mentioned in another forum. It seems that some actually prefer them for fishing cobia jigs from a pier.

I just wondered how many still use them? Curious minds want to know. C2


----------



## Billcollector

I build the heck out of them for pier and cobia fishermen. 30 pound mono doesn't like to go through smaller diameter guides when thrown from a spinning reel.


----------



## billfishhead

old school?,,,,,,,,,,,,,i resemble that remark


----------



## SmokenJoe

Do any of you guys use braid and short top shots?

Joe


----------



## Austin

SmokenJoe said:


> Do any of you guys use braid and short top shots?
> 
> Joe


The only time I have seen folks using a top shot over braid is when king fishing with a smaller than average reel.


----------



## billfishhead

braided line is like using a file in the guides,,,,,,,,,,,,its hard and thin and ruins guides quick


----------



## SmokenJoe

billfishhead said:


> braided line is like using a file in the guides,,,,,,,,,,,,its hard and thin and ruins guides quick


Not if you buy the sic, sin, or alconite guides. 

Which is why I asked. I have fished off a pier maybe twice and that was 20 years ago. I as amateur rod builder am trying to understand some of the reason you guys would want to use these old school guides.

I would love someone to do a real world test. All new school with braid and sic guides versus old school 30 mono. I would imagine you guys know what works but using the old school ways but if you use some of the new technology some things might work better.

I mean why try to cast 30lb mono if you can do the same with a short top shot of maybe 4 feet with a loop to loop connection. The difference may be 0 or you guys way may be much better. 

I like all the new stuff so I don't get using 30 year old technology. Does not matter to me if thats the old school peen reels or old welded steel guides that break all the time. 

Every time I go into some rod building shops I see these rods needing to be repaired. The same thing goes for this forum. 

Is there some other reasons to use the Steel other then casting mono? Can you not buy larger pressed one piece ceramic guides of some sort? If there are no wields then they are less likely to break.

Joe


----------



## compulsivehp

I grew up using and building rods with ss wire guides. To this day I still use two 8' lamiglass boat blank rods my dad built 20 years ago. Never once have I broken or seen my dad break a guide. For that reason, if it isnt broken I don't fix it. The last few times I have been to the pier, I had no problem keep up with the distance the guys with 9' rods. Both my 8' foot rod double as surf rods for pompano fishing.


----------



## SmokenJoe

compulsivehp said:


> I grew up using and building rods with ss wire guides. To this day I still use two 8' lamiglass boat blank rods my dad built 20 years ago. Never once have I broken or seen my dad break a guide. For that reason, if it isnt broken I don't fix it. The last few times I have been to the pier, I had no problem keep up with the distance the guys with 9' rods. Both my 8' foot rod double as surf rods for pompano fishing.


Sounds good & I don't blame you. I still have some rods of my fathers, I use for creek/ canoe fishing. I will say anyone who has built a rod will treat them alot differently then the average joe. I know I treat and use them in a much more appropriately manor then I ever did before.

I got rid of my old peen senators last year. They are ok but the new lighter stuff is alot more fun to fish with IMO. People in 3rd world countries still use hand lines to catch fisher bigger then snapper but I would not want to do it.:no:

Joe


----------



## compulsivehp

SmokenJoe said:


> I got rid of my old peen senators last year. They are ok but the new lighter stuff is alot more fun to fish with IMO. People in 3rd world countries still use hand lines to catch fisher bigger then snapper but I would not want to do it.:no:
> 
> Joe


To make sure my comment isnt one sided, I have recently gotten back into building rods. The first rod I am building is a 7' for my wife and I am using Fuji k-series guides and not wire guides. I myself have really gotten into fishing with lighter gear and braid. It does not help have I also fish from a kayak. However, I still fish with all my wire guide rods and If I were to build a new peir rod it would be wire guides as well.


----------



## SmokenJoe

Yea I just used the k guides on an inshore rod myself. I usually just use the Fuji alconite or hardloy but decided to give them a try.

At first I did not like the braid but now I do. I still use mono for some things but all my spinners are braid. 

I am not sure how many break offs you have in pier fishing but if not that often you could even use hollow Braid and insert the mono top shot for a super smooth transitions. If you get break off fairly often would not really work as well. Probably something that would be pain to do on the pier. 

For jigging I use loop to loop and make my own loop. If the line breaks above the loop and I am on the boat I have to do a 30 to 40 turn Bimini loop.

I figured there is good reason for the use of the steel guides but sometimes people are stubborn and don't even try the new ways.

Joe


----------



## Billcollector

30lb mono won't go through the smaller style guides off of a spinning reel. You will get lots of line slap and decreased distance. As far as the braid grooving the wire guides, I have yet to have one do it yet. Not to mention most of the fish you catch from the pier don't dig vertically like a aj does so you don't get the sawing action that would require the use of a alconite or silicone carbide insert guide.


----------



## SmokenJoe

Good info thanks. I figured you guys are not using much drag so that by itself should reduce the problems from braid . 

What are most guys using probably 6 to 10lbs for drag? 

Joe


----------



## Charlie2

*Old School Rods*

I wrap rods and have for a long time.

I quit wrapping the old wire guide, COF rods many moons ago when other concepts using smaller guides and materials came into being.

To each his/her own. If you want to use a baseball bat to cast with, I couldn't care less. Just don't ask me to wrap one. 

I just know that more efficient rod guide concepts are available and I use them. C2


----------



## Billcollector

Oh god no. Most guys out there are probably using 2-4lbs of drag max. I myself an using between 6-10 lbs because because I don't like to play with fish.


----------



## SmokenJoe

Billcollector said:


> Oh god no. Most guys out there are probably using 2-4lbs of drag max. I myself an using between 6-10 lbs because because I don't like to play with fish.


Then why use 30 instead of 20lb? If 2 to 4 is all they are using. I mean the old 1/3 of breaking strength rule puts you in the right zone for 20lb.:blink:


----------



## SmokenJoe

Charlie2 said:


> I wrap rods and have for a long time.
> 
> I quit wrapping the old wire guide, COF rods many moons ago when other concepts using smaller guides and materials came into being.
> 
> To each his/her own. If you want to use a baseball bat to cast with, I couldn't care less. Just don't ask me to wrap one.
> 
> I just know that more efficient rod guide concepts are available and I use them. C2


I was wondering about the concept idea when I built the inshore rod with the K seris but chickened out on trying it because the rod was not for me. I don't like trying something new unless its for me.

I had a hard to getting the program to give me a correct reduction/choking setup for the guides.

What do you use? I heard the 27x method is crap from someone who I trust.

I tried the one at anglers resource.

http://anglersresource.net/GuidePlacementSoftware.aspx


----------



## gulf coast rodworks

all guides can break. does not matter what type or size. i have repaired hundreds of them. all depends on how they feel at the factory that day. old school vs modern tech. that will go on forever. they all have become specilaized. you do have more options than before.


----------



## billfishhead

go with pac bay,,,,,,the welds hold up netter and they come in 3 colors


----------



## Pompano Joe

Charlie2 said:


> Curious minds want to know. C2


There you go startin' trouble again Charlie!


----------



## Billcollector

SmokenJoe said:


> Then why use 30 instead of 20lb? If 2 to 4 is all they are using. I mean the old 1/3 of breaking strength rule puts you in the right zone for 20lb.:blink:


My cobia rods use the 70 mm stripper guides so the customer has the option of using mono. Now for my king rods I use a multitude of different guide layouts. It all depends on which guide setup the customer wants. Most of the time I use a 60 mm stripper and step down from there with either the cof layout, or go to a modified concept guide layout. As far as drag goes, most people don't have a good understanding of how heavy 8 pounds of drag really is. Most of the older reels on the pier would begin to have mechanical malfunctions when exposed to that kind of constant pressures. I know from personal experience that 8 pounds of drag is tough to pull out with your hand. I know the guide layouts I use are built for maximum distance with minimal weight. I test cast every rod I build, as well as do a static deflection test. The one problem we see with the concept system guide layout is on the super windy days when people are trying to snobbling cigs. 90 percent of the people fishing the rods I build could honestly care less what guide layout is on the rod as long as its tough, and it functions well.


----------



## Charlie2

*Old School Rods*

I started this thread because I just wanted to see how many people were still using the 'Old School Rods'. I got my answer. Thanks much.

If you're happy; I'm happy. Go for it. C2


----------



## SmokenJoe

To me there are alot who like the old school way.

Thanks for the response Billcollecter. I like to try and understand why people use what they use. I myself believe you can learn from everybody even if its what not to do. *Not directed at anyone here*. Especially someone who fishes the type of rods they build. I find they usually have good reason for what they do. 

*Off topic rant warning*
I do not get how some builders who do not own or have never owned a boat think they can build stand up tuna rods or trolling rods when you have never done it before. I would never try to sell myself as Pier rod builder because I do not fish that way. Could I build one sure but I know Billcolector can build one better because he does it.


----------



## weedline

i will start by saying i have built rods for 25 years by that i honestly mean i have built maybe 25 for myself maybe 6 more for friends or family christmas presents so im far from an expert but all setups are for different fishing methods on a boat a 7 ft light action blank with fuji guides and something like a penn 5500 spooled with 20 lb braid if u fish it right is all u need for kings pushing 40 # but pier fishing i would never get away from the traditional pier rod 8 to 9 ft light on the tip with the stainless a 706 or 302 and all the 15 # andie it will hold as far as cobia se what u like braid will outcast mono but it has a different feel sometimes it doesnt work for some anglers but as far as it cutting guides thats just an old wives tale granted its more abrasive and dont make a hard cast with it tip rapped unless u wish for a few inches off your rod but from my experience it wont hurt the old guides before u f up and an do it yourself how about lets get this intresting and debate eglass vs graphite and the newer materials used in rod blanks im a big fan of eglass


----------



## SmokenJoe

Start a new thread weed line and share why you feel that way and for what type of fishing. I see were different types work better for certain types of fishing. 

Thats like saying steel is the best building materiel period. I do not care to fly in a plane made of steel.


----------



## shootnstarz

I don't fish anymore but I still have my pier rods, always prefered 10' one piece. I have a Fenwick 1386 I had built many moons ago and I doubt there's a rod around that could outcast it with a ciggie. The other is an old Berkley (Breakley) 10" Tri-Sport, a very popular rod way back and is still a great casting rod.

The trick I found is, most guys don't leave enough butt sticking out behind the reel seat, can't get the leverage. I had to mark where I wanted the reel seats to make sure the builders didn't leave my butt too short. Both of these rods can whip a bait or lure out there. Of course it helps to have gorrilla arms.

Rick


----------



## firstshot

Charlie2 said:


> I wrap rods and have for a long time.
> 
> I quit wrapping the old wire guide, COF rods many moons ago when other concepts using smaller guides and materials came into being.
> 
> To each his/her own. If you want to use a baseball bat to cast with, I couldn't care less. Just don't ask me to wrap one.
> 
> I just know that more efficient rod guide concepts are available and I use them. C2


Why did you ask your question in the first place, just so you could give your opinion on pier rod building even though you obviously dont pier fish? Anyway to answer your question probably 85% of the king rods on the piers are built with large stainless wire frame guides, for good reason. If you think that a concept guide system or any other small guide setup will outcast large ring guides when casting light live baits or cigs, especially into the wind, then you have either read too much rod building crap off the internet, or just dont have much pier experience. I've experimented with different guide setups, and anytime you attempt to choke down the line too much when casting light baits into the wind you will lose distance due to line slap. Please dont try to recommend braid for pier king fishing, just dont do it. Cobia rods are also built with stainless guides, just as billcollector says 30 lb mono just doesnt fly too well with smaller guides either. Yes, you can gain distance with braid, and the newer guide setups will work well, but with most of the piers being first shot most fish mono. Even on distance built rods I have never seen braid groove stainless guides even with the heavy drag settings used cobia fishing. I do use SIC or alconite tips on all my rods whether using mono or braid.


----------



## Charlie2

I posted it because I was surprised to see one on a friend's lathe and just wondered just how many still used them. I got my answer. C2


----------



## BowChamp

I've noticed most people who want a rod built just want the cheappest way possible. I use braid and a concept style rod and it works great, even better in the wind.


----------

