# 1983 Wellcraft V20 rebuild



## jasoncooperpcola

Pulled the cap on the V20 this morning. Not good. She will need all new stringers and a transom core. I intended to do the transom but I am building an outrigger bracket. I did not think my stringers were in such bad shape. 
I have been cutting the foam from around the gas tank with the chainsaw, and hopefully the fuel tank is not corroded out, but so far I have been pulling the most putrid smelling water soaked foam out of the gas tank coffin. 

Any place a stringer meets a floor (cross stringer) the stringer is broken. Also finding alot of rot. I have seen this in TWO Wellcrafts now. Would it be beneficial to double on the thickness of the stringers?


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## Ocean Master

I think with using todays applications and materials you wouldn't need to over do anything. X-Shark can chime in on what to use.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Also I should mention that I want it built as strong as possible. The possibility exists that in the future a 225/250hp outboard or twins will be hung.


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## Ocean Master

That would be nice. They are great boats. I fished out of a new one for about 3 years that was my friends boat. The ride is like nothing else.


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## SaltAddict

My friend replaced the stringers on his a few years ago. Seems to be a common problem with the V20. But man, what a tough little boat. And dry as hell for a sled that small.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Why Wellcraft did not seal where they cut the stringers, is a big mystery. If I did not love the boat, I would not spend the amount of money I am about to on it. But when I am done It will last at least twice as long as what the factory did. Now for some pics. 

Lifting the cap, with scaffold, 4x6s, a winch and a couple comealongs. :thumbsup:



















Little transom rot.



















Broken stringers



















Gas tank foam removal with a CHAINSAW. :thumbup:



















Now this really upsets me. Why did they cut the stringers down?? Make the splashwell fit around the stringers! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!


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## Ocean Master

Actually it doesn't look too bad. At least when it's cleaned up and repaired you'll have a nice ride with all new hoses and wiring. Done the right way.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Right now I am thinking tear all the stringers and bulkheads out and replace it all. I had pure hell breaking the fuel tank loose of the hull, because I could not pry on anything. It all is a flimsy mess.

Fuel tank out. 










Fuel tank coffin minus a bulkhead I removed to get the chainsaw under the tank.


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## mt0264

I have a 85 v20 I am parting out if you need anything or make a good deal on the whole thing


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## X-Shark

> Right now I am thinking tear all the stringers and bulkheads out and replace it all. I had pure hell breaking the fuel tank loose of the hull, because I could not pry on anything. It all is a flimsy mess.


The tool of choice for that is A "Digging Bar".

Be very careful in your thinking and doing. taking all the stringers out is like taking the bones out of your leg. the bottom of the hull can get flimsy and if tour not careful you can form a hook in the hull when you put the new stuff in. Then the boat will perform like a pig. I talked to a guy at the BSH party that has that in a hull.
Building a full cradle to support it would be a good idea.

That water in the foam is what attacks the outside of the alum tank. This is the reason for Coal Tar Epoxying the outside of the new tank. 

Some will say get air down there and do not foam it in. But there is a problem. There is no way to circulate air down there.


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## leeprice72

Why dont you fill the stringers full of arjay? The stuff is supposed to be better than new.


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## Ocean Master

The foam and tank look like they never got wet. That's a very good sign.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Ocean Master said:


> The foam and tank look like they never got wet. That's a very good sign.


I have a t shirt in the trash that says otherwise.  I hit some wet foam with the chainsaw on the starboard side of the tank, and it stunk worse than road kill. I hate the putrid smell of rotten saltwater and I got a nice coating of it.


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## jasoncooperpcola

X-Shark said:


> The tool of choice for that is A "Digging Bar".
> 
> Be very careful in your thinking and doing. taking all the stringers out is like taking the bones out of your leg. the bottom of the hull can get flimsy and if tour not careful you can form a hook in the hull when you put the new stuff in. Then the boat will perform like a pig. I talked to a guy at the BSH party that has that in a hull.
> Building a full cradle to support it would be a good idea.
> 
> That water in the foam is what attacks the outside of the alum tank. This is the reason for Coal Tar Epoxying the outside of the new tank.
> 
> Some will say get air down there and do not foam it in. But there is a problem. There is no way to circulate air down there.


X-Shark I was planning to coal tar epoxify the fuel tank whether it be a new one or the one I took out. I have read an article on installing alum tanks, and supposedly the wet foam blocks air from the alum surface, which leads to corrosion. I will include a pic of a fuel tank from an 18 Fisherman, and you can clearly see it only corroded where the foam was. I am still not sure how to reinstall a new tank, I do not think I want to foam it in, the article I read suggested strips of starboard under the tank bonded with 5200.

What is the proper cradle design? Something as simple as trailer bunks that run the length of the hull, or something more complex?

Would one of yall be interested in looking at it, and telling me if I am going overboard replacing all the stringers up to the cabin? I think it is worse than the pictures make it look.


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## jasoncooperpcola

leeprice72 said:


> Why dont you fill the stringers full of arjay? The stuff is supposed to be better than new.


I am considering it. I just do not know enough about it. Its a pourable ceramic, and in my mind I see it breaking.


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## bayougrande

I've owned a bay boat with a hook......you might as well throw it in the garbage........the more speed you try to achieve...the farther the bow will dig!!!!!!! Some little river boats are designed with small hooks so you can power them with smaller motors and they will come on plane. good luck with the project. I had a v-20 hull dual console and i loved it. :thumbsup:


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## Duke S

Making good progress there- I wasn't brave enough to use the chain saw!

Getting the wet foam out will definitely lighten the hull, but consider your strength to weight ratio in repairs. Overbuilding may not be as good as careful building, and a lighter boat will run more efficiently and faster with less hp.

3x on supporting the hull, especially keep the keel straight, and having taken off the cap, the sides will need support too. a hogged ship is a pig!

keep the pictures coming.


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## X-Shark

> Overbuilding may not be as good as careful building, and a lighter boat will run more efficiently and faster with less hp.


Amen!


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## Ocean Master

I have the plastic strips for using under the tanks if you want them. I have read the same tank installation article you are referring to.


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## jasoncooperpcola

I forgot to include the pic of the other fuel tank I pulled from the 18 Fisherman that was only corroded where the foam was. 

You see the pitting is only in the foam areal that is not dark.

Ocean Master I am trying to figure out my tank situation first. I would like to be able to hold 100 gallons of fuel. Can I have the existing tank modified? Or should I have a new tank built to the same dimensions as the current tank just longer. Or I can find another tank to add in, but then that adds another fill hose, vent, and a three way valve, not to mention headaches of having two tanks for fittings to leak etc.

I am doing some modifications to the garage to make room for the V20, I am taking a middle post out and spanning the distance with triple 2x12x20 lumber sandwiched together to make more room. But what is the ideal cradle to keep everything in alignment?


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## X-Shark

Well You don't modify that old tank. You sell it for Scrap!

An ideal cradle will conform to the full length of the boat. You would have stations ....say every 2ft and lay 1/2in plywood over it to form what looks like the bottom of the boat.

It would be easier to build with the boat flipped and then flip the boat back upright on it.


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## Ocean Master

I think it would much more advantageous to have a new tank built. Talk to Bobby (X-Shark). He does this all the time.

I have plenty of Starboard strips and 5200 if you need it.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Ocean Master I will take you up on the offer when its tank time. I appreciate it! :thumbup:

X-Shark, I will look at the cost to build a cradle. Dam that will be alot of work.


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## X-Shark

> X-Shark, I will look at the cost to build a cradle. Dam that will be alot of work.


Welcome to the World of boats. 

You start one project and 20 more things need fixing while you have it cut apart.


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## jasoncooperpcola

X-Shark said:


> Welcome to the World of boats.
> 
> You start one project and 20 more things need fixing while you have it cut apart.


True. this started as a bracket build not a rebuild.


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## jasoncooperpcola

X-Shark said:


> Well You don't modify that old tank. You sell it for Scrap!
> 
> An ideal cradle will conform to the full length of the boat. You would have stations ....say every 2ft and lay 1/2in plywood over it to form what looks like the bottom of the boat.
> 
> It would be easier to build with the boat flipped and then flip the boat back upright on it.


X-Shark, please dont say that. i have been under the boat on weekends for three months removing bottom paint........ when i build the cradle i assume every station should be the same until i get to the bow, right? And i need to have a straight edge inside the boat to verify its perfect? looks like i have enough material to build a cradle. now my garage floor will determine how many shims i need to keep it straight. still trying to figure a way to flip her in the garage.


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## Ocean Master

Are the ceiling joist exposed? You can use them with chains, cables or ropes to the hull and flip the boat over. Tom Kennedy, Patriot Yacht Services may have a portable cradle set up to flip the boat over.

I have a 120v 1/2 ton chain winch I will let you use to help lift the hull.

With help I have flipped smaller boats over with man power and put them back on the trailer.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Awesome, thanks Ocean Master. My garage is a flat sloped roof supported by posts in the middle. The posts are coming out and being replaced with a triple 2x12 and plywood joist. this will take a few weeks. but i can lift off the new joists when done. I have a Warn 3200acr that i pulled the cap with. looks like garage cleanout is in order. and i will need all twenty feet wide of it to flip her.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Something that has been bothering me...... I have a thruhull clamshell water intake on the starboard side a little over halfway of the hull. The boat pulls hard to the starboard side. Could the clamshell be my problem? I want to move it to the back of the hull to give me more room by the cabin for storage under the floor. Its an inch and a half hole in the bottom of the boat, should i dish out an area 8:1 and fill it with larger and larger patches? Just because its a hole in the bottom of the boat I might get a pro to do it if I think i cannot feel comfortable with it.


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## jasoncooperpcola

yeah... the high speed pickup has got to go. Just walked by the boat and water was dripping out at a pretty good rate. it has quite a bit of water in it from the rain. i wish i could get a pic up.


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## jasoncooperpcola

lets try a mobile uppload


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## Ocean Master

When you do patch the hole do it from the inside and outside.


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## bayougrande

welder is just gonna blow through that old aluminum on that tank anyways. You gotta go new. The thru hull fitting shouldn't make that boat pull.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Got an update. I actually had free time today and removed almost all the transom core. Still got a layer in places. After removing the glass it really did not look bad. But when I began prying the layers apart everything I found was wet. Then I found an odd drilled hole above and offset of my drain. So far I am glad I tore the transom core out. I could have just bolted a bracket on and took off but the condition of my transom has always bugged me. Once again Wellcraft screwed up by not sealing holes and cuts which allowed water in. I have learned so far that EVERY hole I drill thru my new wood will be an oversized hole filled with epoxy then a hole drilled thru the epoxy. But for almost thirty years old I think the transom was in ok shape. It was better than I expected. tried uploading pics but my phone is being a pos. :thumbdown:


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## X-Shark

I've got a piece of 1 1/2in 26lb Density Coosa in my shop that would make a super new core material.


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## jasoncooperpcola

I have not done alot of research on composites. How does it compare weight wise to two sheets of marine ply? My bracket design involves the stringers extending into the bracket. So I was planning on one layer of 3/4" marine ply in the transom to reduce weight since my outrigger stringer setup would provide all of the support. My idea is to make stringers that sister to the main stringers on each side, that extend 30" out the back. Then I will have to make a filler where the main stringer does not extend out. So on each side I will have a triple layer exting out the boat. Structurally wise its overkill on strength. My main concern is the actual motor mount. The possibility exists that I may mount twins later on. But the rest is just put a bottom top and motor mount and the triple outrigger stringers will be my bracket sides then I have a flotation bracket. My calculations say it will provide 320lbs of flotation at rest and over 600lbs if fully submerged.


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## X-Shark

The 1 1/2in 26lb Bluewater is the Cream of the crop in a composite transom. It weighs what 1 sheet of 3/4in Fir ply would weigh....or damn close to it.



> My calculations say it will provide 320lbs of flotation at rest and over 600lbs if fully submerged.


There is a problem with that. Only the part of the tub that is submerged is adding flotation. Everything else is added weight. How wide will your tub be?


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## jasoncooperpcola

X-Shark thats how I came up with those numbers. I used the existing water line to figure how much is submerged then did my calculations off that for the at rest weight. My tub is going to be 36" wide. At rest I think at least ten inches is submerged. I have to double check. But I did not factor in the bracket weight itself. I have been thinking of a composite to build it to save weight. I know a company builds brackets and uses Divinycell. But will that work for an outrigger application like mine. And what about using a composite for the stringers? I want to take you up on the Coosa but i am flat broke. Can you pm me a price?


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## jasoncooperpcola

Got a bracket question. I am building a bracket with 30" setback. I want the maximum flotation yet do not want to take away the performance assets of a bracket. I am thinking a v bottom bracket like the Hemco bracket or should I go with a flat bottom bracket? How far should I keep my bracket off the bottom of the boat? Is 3" enough? Back to the max flotation, should I make it swoop up like the stainless brackets and how much should it angle up from the bottom? And what is the height the motor needs to go up? Is it 1" up for every foot up or 2" up for every foot back? And should I build my bracket so the bottom matches it?


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## jasoncooperpcola

Just got another idea. A v bottom bracket with a 12" wide flat pad in the middle. Best of both designs.


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## X-Shark

Ya need to go to Classic SeaCraft and look for Strick's posts on building brackets.

He's done plenty. He's a sharp guy and a mold building fool. He can wipe one out in a afternoon.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Here is the design I settled on. Its a little over 36" wide. 5" off the keel at the pad and 3" off the bottom for the angle. Pad is 13" wide.

X-Shark, I will start looking on classic SeaCraft. What do you think, build a mold for a bracket that slides over the outrigger stringers? I was planning to outrigger the stringers then build the bracket off them. Gonna check out the site now. Thanks X-SHARK!


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## X-Shark

http://www.classicseacraft.com/community/showthread.php?t=24103


I wouldn't run the stringers into the tub of the bracket. It will just complicate things. Brackets have been built for years without doing that. With that said. The EURO transom's are built like your talking, but the boat is built in a mold.


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## jasoncooperpcola

I went thru that build a bit, and saw at the end his bracket. They are nice.

But, not trying to argue, look at how much reinforcement it takes due to the simple fact its a bolt on. I know with an outrigger stringer design I can build a stronger, lighter bracket that is part of the boat. Not to mention simpler. I did notice that all the brackets had a v bottom that was level and had no swoop. In my mind I see that creating drag on take off. Or am I wrong?


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## X-Shark

The main effect here is to have enough volume to support the weight of the motor moved 30in aft. On short boats it can throw the CG all to hell. Your scuppers will be under water and deck wet. You need that flotation.

Strick's reverse chine in it even added a little more flotation.

Remember its what in the water....Not the whole size of the tub that creates the flotation.


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## bayougrande

jasoncooperpcola said:


> Got a bracket question. I am building a bracket with 30" setback. I want the maximum flotation yet do not want to take away the performance assets of a bracket. I am thinking a v bottom bracket like the Hemco bracket or should I go with a flat bottom bracket? How far should I keep my bracket off the bottom of the boat? Is 3" enough? Back to the max flotation, should I make it swoop up like the stainless brackets and how much should it angle up from the bottom? And what is the height the motor needs to go up? Is it 1" up for every foot up or 2" up for every foot back? And should I build my bracket so the bottom matches it?


 
your thinking is right, but what you really have to know first if the motor and bracket weight your putting on the boat. (along with the amount of setback) The older wellcrafts oviously weren't ment to hang 4-strokes on. And even large two-strokes fore that matter, although you can, i know.(i think the alot of v-20's came from the factory with 115 and 130's. Not positive)I had a 130yami and it would do every bit of 38knots. I would keep the setback and bracket+motor weight to a minimal on that boat because of it shorter length. Your not going to have a choice but to add flotation.... and possibly have to fab your scuppers up an 1"or so.


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## bayougrande

X-Shark said:


> The main effect here is to have enough volume to support the weight of the motor moved 30in aft. On short boats it can throw the CG all to hell. Your scuppers will be under water and deck wet. You need that flotation.""""""
> 
> :yes:


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## X-Shark

> and possibly have to fab your scuppers up an 1"or so.


But that would then involve raising the deck the same amount to make them work.


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## jasoncooperpcola

For deck drainage I am extending the floor to the transom. Then cutting slots thru the transom which will then have scupper doors. I am removing alot of weight from the rear when I cut the splashwell and side boxes off the cap. As for my set back, its 30". I have a livewell going on the bracket, hopefully. It all comes down to a splash test. I will not cut my transom slots until the splashtest. 

Also trying to widen my bracket. But I can only get to 45" wide before my bracket is almost against the trim tab actuators, and over the actual trim tab. When I splash it, one of my plans is to load the bracket with an additional 400lbs just to see how she will handle another motor. My goal here is to create a Bluewater V20. As for going twins, I have not done alot of research on Mercury older 100/125 2 strokes. But from what I have found they are almost the weight of another 2.5L Merc.


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## X-Shark

> I have a livewell going on the bracket, hopefully.


And there you have the weight added back.....Right where you don't want it. 8.3lbs per gal for Saltwater.


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## jasoncooperpcola

I used to keep an ice chest and the livewell at the back of the boat and the Johnson i took off weighed ten pounds less than the Merc. So my only weight problem will be the actual offset of the bracket. Wont need the icechest as I am building two fishboxes at the helm with seating on them. The plan to put the livewell on the bracket is not set in stone. Its just something I hoped to do, to gain more room inside.

Been trying to figure out my pilot house. Its either put the windshield at about ten or twenty degrees or move the helm back about a foot. The latter option gives more room for electronics but takes deck space away.


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## bayougrande

X-Shark said:


> But that would then involve raising the deck the same amount to make them work.


:yes:


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## pappastratos

wow, what a job, lets see a few more pics! how are you surviving? I repaired a couple of damaged bass boats, last one was a stratos. Was going to put a floor in my 22' wellcraft, but decided not to. Got tired of breathing resin & fiberglass dust!


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## Ocean Master

That's a bunch of work for a 20' boat..!! I hope it all comes out great looking.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Thanks for the comments everybody. Ocean Master if I can do everything I want on the V20 I will have the boat I really want, that cannot be bought. 

Pappastratos, its a day by day thing. Right now I am still in the tear out phase. Almost got the last skin of plywood off the transom. Some days I work on it, some days I dont. Been trying to get the garage cleaned out so I can get her in there for the winter. I wont begin stringers until I can get it off the trailer and on a series of blocks. I have a respirator and wear gloves along with safety glasses when working on this. Oh and a long sleeve shirt is a lifesaver. But I discovered I cannot mix my clothes for boatwork with regular clothes. EVERYTHING gets itchy.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Also, I take tons of pics as work progresses. Internet is off here at the house so I upload a few from my phone. But I do have a bunch on my camera. 

Saturday I hope to attempt a mock up of the pilothouse with plywood. My main concern is getting a good angle on the windscreen for aerodymanics, yet not having it so close that I get a headache when I bury the bow in a wave. The pilothouse almost needs to wait until I get the cap in the boat and modified for a closed transom. Right now I measured it out and I got little back deck but I have a splashwell and space waster storage boxes that need be cut out. I am gaining two feet of back deck by doing this. Now I know why not many 20' pilot house boats exist!


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## X-Shark

> Now I know why not many 20' pilot house boats exist!


If you buy mine...It will save you a lot of work and money. You'll gain 3ft of boat and a 2nd motor. You'll also get dual stations and Fly-by-Wire controls. That was $5K right there, just for the controls.


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## jasoncooperpcola

You ought to be a boat dealer! No way I can afford to drop that kind of cash on a boat X-Shark. If I did I would be looking at it against a World Cat. But, my V20 has more sentimental value to me. Rebuilding it was supposed to be a project for me and my dad. But when he passed away I decided to keep it and do the work by myself.


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## X-Shark

10-4 I understand.


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## Ocean Master

That's an admirable thing to do..!! Keep up the good work and post your pics when you can. If you need anything I am in Gulf Breeze.


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## jasoncooperpcola

What height should the inside from floor to roof be? I am 5' 11". Would 6' 2" be enough? X-Shark what height did you make yours.


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## X-Shark

6' - 5 1/2" to the underside off the deck. But you need to keep things in proportion, so it doesn't look like a Telephone Booth.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Here is 6' 3". 24" tall windows 30*angle on the windshield, and 74" long on the gunnels. Its hard to tell with the cap out of the hull. Is it too telephone boothy? Its just some scrap plywood I had. Also lets avoid the "b" word.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Been working on the garage. Got a couple more hours and the V20 is going in on blocks. My question, is it worth the effort to turn the boat around on the trailer and put her in bow first? Otherwise I have to walk around it through a tight area. I have enough room in the yard I can put her on blocks and pull the trailer out then back it under backwards.


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## jasoncooperpcola

Got it turned around and now its on blocks in the garage. I plan to add more blocks under it to hopefully avoid a hook. Been busting foam out.


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