# Shooting Does with spotted fawns



## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

Didn't want to start a hot topic J.J thread. But I just don't see where it make you a bad person for shooting a doe with fawns.All you here about on here is all the does on public land and you have a limited window on harvest/killing them. Were I hunt I have to kill a good bit of does or I risk the farmer shooting them in the peanut fields so I'm not to picky we don't have winter kills here and from my experience a doe will sacrifice her fawn if it will save her life.And to make matter worse the only way to not shoot a doe with fawn is to not shoot them at all you wont know till you flip her over. I was just wanting to see were other stand on the subject.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Spotted ones are cute and your a bad man if you kill their mommy! Lol. I think most survive but I can never shoot one with a spotted one in tow. 
From a marketing standpoint as hunters we need to remember how we look to the non hunting world and killing mom looks real bad to the Bambi generation. If you do it. Keep your mouth shut!

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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

i want a deer BAD but i'll pass on one every time if she has a fawn in tow, spots or not (unless its a grown yearling). I watched one the other day, fawn had one spot left, but tried to nurse as they were hanging around, so I couldn't do that.


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## Jaw Jacker (Jul 29, 2009)

It don't make you a bad person. The FWC want let you take care of a fawn who doe gets killed by a car. They told me the fawn will be adopted by another doe. 
Its just my personal choice not to shoot them. :thumbsup: My grand dad didn't cull anything. He said, Son I hunt to eat.....got a spot remover in my pocket.


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## panhandleslim (Jan 11, 2013)

Some of the bigger spotted fawns that I am seeing, and I'm seeing a lot, are eating up corn just like they are grown. I think they can survive.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

Its a personal preference and having a good conscience. I personally don't see any reason to leave the fawn without mom and want do it. And I will not pat you on the back for doing it either so keep it to yourself. Just keep placing them bows to hide them milk bags in the pictures and we can all pretend it isn't happening.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

This is why I do not Bow hunt !!!!!!!!!! Fawns

may just be me but shooting a doe with fawns so young is just not in my nature.
left on their own being so small with no defense , to the elements , coyotes etc = no that isn't me

some times in my life one must come to reason with just what kind of man they are!

= you asked


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

Always have the same issue for antlerless deer days on private also but not as bad due to the few extra weeks them yearlings can get some age on them.


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## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

HisName said:


> This is why I do not Bow hunt !!!!!!!!!! Fawns
> 
> may just be me but shooting a doe with fawns so young is just not in my nature.
> left on their own being so small with no defense , to the elements , coyotes etc = no that isn't me
> ...


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

Never been hungry enough to kill a doe with spots in tow. Do what you gotta do but I'll give them some time. There are plenty of does out there without youngins behind them.


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## jaster (Oct 7, 2007)

I need meet. Will take a mom with spots in tow. Hell will take a doe with spots just washed off, I am hungry, I do not discriminate!


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## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

Honesty at this point in my hunting life would let most all walk just doesn't do the same thing for me as it use to. But when you hunt around peanut/cotton fields I cant tell you the filling to go out and see deer wasting away in and round it. I promise thay don't care what size age it is if it eats in the field it fair game.well I guess I got a good filling for how other view this topic.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Like was said before. I'm just not that hungry. There are plenty of stores near my house. I think people need to ask themselves - "Will I not eat tonight if I don't shoot this doe or am I just wanting something to put on Facebook ?"
As I've aged, I've gotten a lot more ethical. Not that I was ever a lawbreaker but I've come to realize that there's no sense in shooting everything that moves.


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## panhandleslim (Jan 11, 2013)

There are so many does and so many fawns; how do you know which fawn belongs to which doe. I see does attacking these fawns with flailing hooves and they don't seem to discriminate. 

Not trying to convince anybody but if you shoot a doe, you aren't really sure that she doesn't have a fawn stashed out in the bush somewhere. Management in Florida dictates killing does or the deer will overpopulate and die horrible deaths. What are you gonna do?


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

It wasn't a question of what if but would you. I don't think I would want that fawn left to be fostered by those flailing hooved does either. Like has been posted if you feel you have to do it just keep it to yourself. Shooting a 3/4 grown yearling doe is a much better option in my book.


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## amarcafina (Aug 24, 2008)

jaster said:


> I need meet. Will take a mom with spots in tow. Hell will take a doe with spots just washed off, I am hungry, I do not discriminate!


Hey Heard of Wal Mart ???


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Figured this would bring out the "buy your meat in a store" stupidity.


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## hyco (Oct 24, 2008)

welldoya said:


> Like was said before. I'm just not that hungry. There are plenty of stores near my house. I think people need to ask themselves - "Will I not eat tonight if I don't shoot this doe or am I just wanting something to put on Facebook ?"
> As I've aged, I've gotten a lot more ethical. Not that I was ever a lawbreaker but I've come to realize that there's no sense in shooting everything that moves.


That argument doesn't work either. Some folks never post a kill pic on here or facebook. I only posted 1 last year because I had a story to tell about my climber broke. If it's a legal deer in range , it's in trouble. People got to stop putting human emotions on animals.


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

panhandleslim said:


> Management in Florida dictates killing does or the deer will overpopulate and die horrible deaths. What are you gonna do?


 Good God please!!! Really?


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

It's a judgment call you have to make. There's no law against it. It's a matter of personal ethics. I would say though that if you insist on harvesting a doe with a spotted fawn just be aware that the less fuel you pour on the fire of the anti-hunting agenda the better off we will all be.


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## MikeH (Jul 14, 2009)

So all the people who would shoot the doe with the spotted fawn, would you shoot the fawn too if it were legal? Would you see anything ethically wrong with that?


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

I never shoot does with spotted fawns in tow, but will smoke one with yearlings. She's gonna kick them away in a few weeks anyway.


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## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

If I am hard up and see a momma w/ fawn in tow, I will watch the baby. Ifin it is eating and not nursing, I don't have a problem taking momma.....  I tend to usually let em have a free pass!


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

MikeH said:


> So all the people who would shoot the doe with the spotted fawn, would you shoot the fawn too if it were legal? Would you see anything ethically wrong with that?


Not a fair question - Shooting fawns is like pulling your corn before its filled out!


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## bcbz71 (Dec 22, 2008)

Just like Ford/Chevy, there are two opinionated/emotional sides to this, but biologists will tell you a fawn has the best chance of survival when it has reached 6 months old with it's momma. So, with most our fawns birthed in August, it would be February before the fawn hit that mark. 

Most of us have seen how careless and noisy a fawn is with their movement. I watched an adult doe and fawn Saturday night for over an hour. She moved slowly and constantly tested the air on full alert while the fawn was running around and crashing the palmettos looking for berries. Easy to see how a coyote or bear would be able to get a fawn that didn't have it's mom looking out for it.

As far as does pushing away their fawns, they only do that to buck fawns and usually the following season. They don't cast out their female fawns....in fact, when you see a group of does, they are usually a family group.

Personally, I won't knowingly do it. IMO the bow season is much too early and is contributing to the problem we have South of I10 with extremely low deer density. We are taking too many does and the unintended side effect is that some fawns are more susceptible to predators.


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## SaltWaterBuck (Sep 2, 2013)

i personally choose not to shoot a doe with spots in tow. the way i look at it your likely killing 2 deer or more and only eating one. theres plenty of does that arent toting dependants around and even if it means getting skunked for the year then i will get skunked before i shoot a mama................i guess im just not that hard up................plus that little bambi that gets left behind for the yotes could end up a stud in 3 r 4 years i know not everyone hunts horns but personally......I LIKE EM !!!


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

simpleman said:


> from my experience a doe will sacrifice her fawn if it will save her life.


Can I ask how you know this?


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## Mike Moore (Feb 10, 2010)

Did it once when I was a 17 year old kid. The urge to score overpowered my conscience. When i got down to retrieve my bounty i had to shew the fawn off from its dead momma. That was enough guilt for me to swear off killing doe with spotted fawns. I have killed several over the years that had yearlings though. If they can chew corn I'm confident they can fend for themselves.


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## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

Spending lot of time in a shooting house were I get to see 2000yard of powerline have yet to see a deer stand it ground when yote's kill one.I have watch 100 of does over the year set at the tree line still inspecting the plot were her baby's are out playing.im not the greatest hunt of all time so I get busted by one every now and again were the doe hauls ass and the poor little fawn stay so she ether know thay are in no danger or her life is more important. The way I see it is she has a better chance at having more fawn than the fawns making it to have there own.but this is just my opinion base on many hours on stand.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

Please don't be offended but I have no clue what your point is in that post


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

Haha I think he's just saying a doe will hang back and watch the fawn feed before coming back out, maybe after being spooked?


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## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

gastonfish said:


> Please don't be offended but I have no clue what your point is in that post


Not offended at all.Was just trying to answer outside9 the best I could. All I was trying to say was based on all the time on stand that I have never seen a doe protect it's fawn.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

hyco said:


> That argument doesn't work either. Some folks never post a kill pic on here or facebook. I only posted 1 last year because I had a story to tell about my climber broke. If it's a legal deer in range , it's in trouble. People got to stop putting human emotions on animals.


An "argument" means you are trying to convince somebody of something. I just stated my opinion. I don't care if you agree or not. It's what I believe.
I've seen plenty of people on here and other sites bragging about body count.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

simpleman said:


> Not offended at all.Was just trying to answer outside9 the best I could. All I was trying to say was based on all the time on stand that I have never seen a doe protect it's fawn.


Got ya, ever tried a fawn bleat? If so you know a doe will charge head into danger just to protect her or any other fawn they feel is in danger.That is proof enough they will put there life on the line to protect there young. I do not use them to hunt does because I feel there is a good chance they have a fawn bedded somewhere near.


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## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

gastonfish said:


> Got ya, ever tried a fawn bleat? If so you know a doe will charge head into danger just to protect her or any other fawn they feel is in danger.That is proof enough they will put there life on the line to protect there young. I do not use them to hunt does because I feel there is a good chance they have a fawn bedded somewhere near.


Have called in few yotes with them.I've herd plenty if people sware by them saying the same thing that it will bring them runing in can't say that it ever worked for me.If it worked that good there wouldn't be a doe left in the woods.


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## speckhunter944 (Jun 13, 2008)

I don't do it, that's just me. I let them walk.


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## BigRed38 (May 5, 2009)

Never saw the need to. The chicken, steak and pork in the freezer will provide till I can tag one without a fawn. Nursing or not, just don't feel right about it when I know Ol' Coyote will tag that fawn as soon as he can now that momma ain't around.


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## polhlor (May 8, 2014)

simpleman said:


> Have called in few yotes with them.I've herd plenty if people sware by them saying the same thing that it will bring them runing in can't say that it ever worked for me.If it worked that good there wouldn't be a doe left in the woods.


 
While predator hunting I have had the fawn bleat bring in deer. Even bucks.
As a side note I watched a doe in Oklahoma stop at a trail intersection in a grassy field and thump a coyote dead with one shot from a front hoof. Don't think the fawn in tow would have been so lucky.


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## Blake R. (Mar 17, 2009)

polhlor said:


> While predator hunting I have had the fawn bleat bring in deer. Even bucks.
> As a side note I watched a doe in Oklahoma stop at a trail intersection in a grassy field and thump a coyote dead with one shot from a front hoof. Don't think the fawn in tow would have been so lucky.



That would've been awesome to see!
I'm not going to do it if I know she has fawns. Sometimes, you can't help it. The fawns hang back too long, and that's the way it goes. 


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

If it is a fawn covered in spots then yes I will pass the doe. If it is a fawn with a spot or two.... I'm shooting the doe the fawn has been alive enough to know the ropes on what to eat and how to evade predators.


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## simpleman (Oct 20, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> If it is a fawn covered in spots then yes I will pass the doe. If it is a fawn with a spot or two.... I'm shooting the doe the fawn has been alive enough to know the ropes on what to eat and how to evade predators.


This is pretty much what I try to do.I know the legal definition of a spot fawn is any with spots but when I here spot fawn I see the golden one's that are load with spots.Think that is the problem when you say spotted fawn people picture poor little bamb that doesn't know his but from his elbow.


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

I think most would be in agreement with you there. An older yearling with a few spots left vs a small fawn covered in spots. I will still pass on most with yearlings at all but just my choice and I don't see an issue with it especially on WMA's that have no doe days. I hunt a lot of private and will have no problem taking does so there is no issue to take does during bow season.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

gastonfish said:


> I think most would be in agreement with you there. An older yearling with a few spots left vs a small fawn covered in spots. I will still pass on most with yearlings at all but just my choice and I don't see an issue with it especially on WMA's that have no doe days. I hunt a lot of private and will have no problem taking does so there is no issue to take does during bow season.


 Yeah if I had private land I would pass on everyone that had any small young yearling with any spot. And shoot most my does during doe week..... but of course doe week doesn't apply to WMA's:thumbdown:


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

I pass on does with spotted fawns in tow, even without spots if theyre on the small side. To each his own, as long as they don't go to waste.


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

I think in a discussion like this it is also important to realize that survival is more than just being able to find food. The fawn learns the ways of the forest from the doe including what to eat, what to avoid, predator detection, etc. 

I recall a hunt last year where I had a doe and fawn come within 35-40 yards of my stand along with a spike following along behind them that came within 10. I wasn't sure if the fawn had spots or not (it definitely wasn't covered) but either way the doe was outside of my comfortable range so I took the opportunity to just watch and take in the moment. The fawns behavior indicated it was still fairly young but the spots were not readily apparent. It followed right on the heels of the doe to the extent that on one occasion she stopped to test the wind and the fawn ran right into her backside. I came to the conclusion that even if the doe was closer I still would have allowed her to walk because obviously the little one was still fairly dependent on her. A few weeks later my feelings were confirmed when I had the same doe, fawn, and spike on camera and I noticed that just on the fawn's rump there were a few remaining spots that had not shed yet. 

Someone mentioned above that if a fawn is eating corn they are probably well into solid food and they felt it was okay to take a doe in this case. I would add that around 6 months the fawn is in the transition from it's milk teeth to the adult teeth and also by this time it has usually shed all the spots. (By the way, this is also why deer are aged in 1/2 years, i.e. 1 1/2, 2 1/2, etc.) Just because a fawn seems to be eating solid foods does not mean that it is fully weaned. It is probably a good idea to let the doe walk. I believe this was touched on in an earlier post (maybe by bcbz). Good Tuesday to ya'll!!


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## nathar (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike Moore said:


> Did it once when I was a 17 year old kid. The urge to score overpowered my conscience. When i got down to retrieve my bounty i had to shew the fawn off from its dead momma. That was enough guilt for me to swear off killing doe with spotted fawns. I have killed several over the years that had yearlings though. If they can chew corn I'm confident they can fend for themselves.


Dang, that would have scarred me for life. 

I wouldn't shoot a doe that had a spotted fawn in tow.

Last year, I was a little bit saddened by the sow that came back for her 80 lb teenager that my son had just killed. When the shot rang out, she and her piglets scattered, but she came back to the body a few minutes later, sniffed around, stood over him for a few minutes, then left. 

Which brings me to another point. I couldn't even think about killing that sow, too, with all those piglets still dependent on her, even though it would have been an easy shot. I know they're invasive pests, but I'm a little tender-hearted in that way.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Why do fawns lose their spots?... It is well documented that this is natures way of letting the mother know when the fawn is ready to be on its own. These spots are actually linked to brain activity and can be gone in less than a month on smarter animals but on some it may take as long as 6 months for them to completely disappear. Some male fawns in captivity have retained their spots well into their breeding years. This is a result of never being in an environment condusive to learning how to survive - and nature knows it & the spots remain. 
So there you go, you can copy paste & print that and put it behind your license in case Mr Green Jeans catches you with a spotted one. Tell him it's a fact cause you got it from the PFF!


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## nastukey (Aug 8, 2012)

Try'n Hard said:


> Some male fawns in captivity have retained their spots well into their breeding years. This is a result of never being in an environment condusive to learning how to survive - and nature knows it & the spots remain.


Or they could be fallow deer on a game farm somewhere?


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Several years ago I was up at my camp and was walking A 2 rut road.
Came around a bend and there was a young yearling standing there. It looked at me and actually wagged it's tail. I swear I could have petted it if not for the rest of the family coming up. The doe blew the alarm, the young one looked confused for a second and then took off with the rest of them. So yeh, they learn how to survive from momma.


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

I remember feeding a fawn in the woods as a kid on a road trip pit stop. We saw it off in the woods, went closer, closer, grabbed some grass and eventually the thing ate it out of our hands. At the time I thought it was the best thing ever but now I know that's not good for deer to do haha.


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## TheFlounderPounder (Jan 9, 2012)

There is absolutely No reason to kill a doe who has spotted fawns with her!! If you do you are NOT a hunter, you are NOT a sportsman, you are just a KILLER! If you and your faimly members are starving to death and cant afford to buy food which some of you claim, then I hope you dont have $50 worth of corn on the ground, a $800 rifle with a $600 scope on it, with a $300 tree climber on your back. 

You can try to justify it all you want. Still you are not a Sportsman nor a hunter just a killer! I also hope you don't pass these traits on the next generation of young hunters!


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## Emerald Ghost (Mar 11, 2008)

If there is an over population, then I say mow them down even if you have to leave them in the field. I would much rather see an animal killed ethically rather than dying after suffering for weeks from starvation.

We also need to be aware of the bunny huggers. They are looking to exploit ANYTHING they can to get laws changed. 

Personally, if I was going to shoot a doe with a spotted fawn, I would have to be mighty hungry. 
just my .02


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## nathar (Jun 25, 2009)

gastonfish said:


> Got ya, ever tried a fawn bleat? If so you know a doe will charge head into danger just to protect her or any other fawn they feel is in danger.That is proof enough they will put there life on the line to protect there young. I do not use them to hunt does because I feel there is a good chance they have a fawn bedded somewhere near.


I watch Animal Planet and NatGeo periodically if I've watched all the recordings of Hell on Wheels or Defiance. Saw a very interesting show where a herd of does fought like hell to save a fawn that was being pursued by a very large pack of coyotes. It seemed the battle lasted for hours, but eventually, the coyotes got the fawn.

I think the maternal instinct to protect offspring is strong and is shared by most of God's creatures.


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

loosing spots happens quickly


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

Try'n Hard said:


> Not a fair question - Shooting fawns is like pulling your corn before its filled out!


But man they taste good. Buddy shot a doe and the bullet went through and hit a small yearling. No spots but small. Best meat I have ever eaten!!!


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