# General consensus on hooks and leaders?



## Jagsare1 (Sep 23, 2011)

We are coming over from the east coast to catch all your fish in the next few weeks. Joking, of course but we are going to try. One thing we don't do is chunk and very little live baiting for pelagics over here. What is your recommendations for the following:

Hook size and style and leader size for chunking?

Hook size and style and leader size for live baiting yft?

I have my ideas of what I am planning but may as well ask the local experts for their recommendations. Thanks in advance for the help.


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## Miami Matt (Jun 20, 2009)

You came to the right place,as everyone here is an expert in their eyes!


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## Jagsare1 (Sep 23, 2011)

Aren't we all experts in our eyes? A legend in our own minds?  I'll just get the info here, catch a big fish and tell everyone I figured it out all by myself! Well, not really, I was very appreciative for all the info I got when I first started years ago and I am still appreciative when someone wants to share something new with me.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Hook and leader size for chunking/livebaiting is the same, unless you are using live baits for marlin, which changes the answer up completely.

80# flouro with 5/0, 6/0, or 7/0 mustad demon circle hooks. The only time I use 7/0 circles is if I am fishing large threadfin herring. Match the hook to the bait-NOT the size fish you are targeting. No swivels.

If you are targeting billfish, then your best bet is to jig up or catch a small tuna (bonito, skipjack, or blackfin) and bridle him up with a 18/0-20/0 circle hook on 20' of 300# flouro. If you don't know how to bridle, google it or email me and I can walk you through it.

Upcurrent side of the rig (assuming you are fishing the oil rigs). It's that simple.


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## Jagsare1 (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks Capt. I was going to use 100 lb leader so I will take your advice and go down. I rarely live bait for marlin but have it handled if the opportunity presents itself. 

Gotcha on the hooks, thanks!

Planning on coming the weekend of the 14th. Might go as far as Na Kita but probably will stay inside of that.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Ditto above but I use Owner Mutu Circles with the 6/0-7/0 Mutu Light being my favorite. It's a personal preference thing you'll find out and you may chime in on a future thread with yet another option for someone. One thing is making sure they are very sharp right out of the package. I also like 80lb fluoro (Seaguar) and rarely have had to drop below it unless the fish are super finicky. I chunk and live bait with the same setups.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how easy tuna are to catch live-baiting/chunking once you lay down a few general ground rules but like anything it is trial and error and they do get downright picky at times. One thing is for certain of a fish that requires eating 25% of its body weight a day; they will ALWAYS eat _something._


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## MSViking (Oct 11, 2007)

Let me add that it is best to snell the circle hooks. This is not so tough with <100 lb test but can be tough but doable on heavier line. I used to always tie Palomar knots to my circle hooks but I now snell them all.

As Capt Woody does, a uni to uni knot is the best way to attach the flour to the main line.


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## Jagsare1 (Sep 23, 2011)

I do snell and my crew and I were talking this afternoon about doing a uni to uni. I appreciate the comments, keep em coming.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

I will be the odd one out here and say I always tie a loop knot on my circle hooks. It allows a live bait to swim much more freely and naturally and is much faster IMO. I've never lost a fish due to one and have tested them on a scale and found them to be just as strong as a uni, improved clinch and similar knots. For chunking it doesn't really matter but like I said before, I use the same setups for chunking as I do live baiting and therefore tie the same.

Uni to Uni is a great knot. There are other knots too of course but not necessary.


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## MSViking (Oct 11, 2007)

Good discussion here:

I am not fortunate enough to have had enough experience (statistical data) to say whether snelling or crimping or other knot to circle hook is best, but I have done tons of research asking others that have had enough experience and the general consensus is snelling improves circle hook performance. But it is truly a debatable topic.

When i was in Panama where they catch large fish (marlin and tuna) on circle hooks every day and have for many many years and therefore have a significant amount of data, they were adamant that snelling improves hook up ratios.

The engineer in me tried to develop a bench test to test the theory but was not able to come up with repeatable process, pulling the hook thru a closed hand repeatedly showed no difference is "grabbing" but the test was hardly scientific.

Ultimately the best rig/knot is the one you have confidence in.

Robert


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

I think it could also depend on the style of circle hook being used. Hard to say though for sure. I've had success with both knots and snelling and can't honestly say either was necessarily better than the other. I think the best thing to do would be to tie with both a snell and another knot of your choosing to 2 identical outfits in terms of leader material and size using the same hook. Using both outfits in the middle of a hot bite and taking note of missed bites, pulled hooks, the location of hooks in a fish's mouth, etc. would help determing which rigging form not only hooks up more, but which holds better and is more consistent at hooking in the corner of the mouth and keeping leader away from teeth, etc.

I will try this on my next trip which may be this next weekend if the weather will allow. I'm supposed to take a new customer of mine and will do some experimenting the bite allows for possible error.


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## Jagsare1 (Sep 23, 2011)

I think like most things in fishing, there can be more than 1 way to do it right!


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

I only snell closed eye hooks. That itty bitty gap in non-welded eye hooks is just enough to make me concerned against using a snell, in which case I just go with the uni. There simply is no reason to use a crimp on anything involving livebait tuna fishing.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Captain Woody Woods said:


> I only snell closed eye hooks. That itty bitty gap in non-welded eye hooks is just enough to make me concerned against using a snell, in which case I just go with the uni. There simply is no reason to use a crimp on anything involving livebait tuna fishing.


Ditto all above. 

I tested some snells on J-hooks a good customer of ours was gonna use for cobia. He snelled them the way he wanted to and we put them on a scale. With 50lb mono leader, they were consistently breaking between 23-25lbs of pull. Upon closer inspection of the failure it became clear that the edge of the hook eye where the wire of the hook met the shank, was cutting the mono when it was pull tight. It was wedging the mono down into the eye and cutting it. Now, he wasn't going to be putting that kind of pressure on kings and cobia from the pier but over the course of the fight there would be an increased chance of losing a fish at any point of a fight. Make sure the snells are on hooks with welded eyes.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Chris V said:


> Ditto all above.
> 
> I tested some snells on J-hooks a good customer of ours was gonna use for cobia. He snelled them the way he wanted to and we put them on a scale. With 50lb mono leader, they were consistently breaking between 23-25lbs of pull. Upon closer inspection of the failure it became clear that the edge of the hook eye where the wire of the hook met the shank, was cutting the mono when it was pull tight. It was wedging the mono down into the eye and cutting it. Now, he wasn't going to be putting that kind of pressure on kings and cobia from the pier but over the course of the fight there would be an increased chance of losing a fish at any point of a fight. Make sure the snells are on hooks with welded eyes.


Glad you did that little test. I don't think I've ever performed one similar to it, but it's just one of those things that makes me juuuuuuust paranoid enough to where I wont tie a snell on those mustad demon hooks.


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## Mullit (Jun 6, 2011)

Great thread. Heres my 2 cents. LISTEN TO CHRIS AND WOODY!!! Be very careful selecting light wire hooks some batchs/brands have very sharp edges around a hook eye thats not closed all the way either break out the pliers and file or get new hook because thoose sharp edges will cut mono fast snelled or tied if the line gets turned on the hook eye. I tie almost all my light wire hooks with a uni or loop knot with no change in landed fish maybe a few more misses but if anything I think I get better hookups (less pulled hooks) especialy with short shanks like the mustad demons. Bring 60,80,100, maybe some 130 flouro as the fish get big in the fall. Large assortment strong non offset circle hooks 4/0 thru 9/0.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Mullit said:


> Great thread. Heres my 2 cents. LISTEN TO CHRIS AND WOODY!!! Be very careful selecting light wire hooks some batchs/brands have very sharp edges around a hook eye thats not closed all the way either break out the pliers and file or get new hook because thoose sharp edges will cut mono fast snelled or tied if the line gets turned on the hook eye. I tie almost all my light wire hooks with a uni or loop knot with no change in landed fish maybe a few more misses but if anything I think I get better hookups (less pulled hooks) especialy with short shanks like the mustad demons. Bring 60,80,100, maybe some 130 flouro as the fish get big in the fall. Large assortment strong non offset circle hooks 4/0 thru 9/0.


No reason to throw away the hooks. I just don't feel comfortable using that snell knot unless that eye is welded shut. And you can catch 100 pound tuna all day on the light wire 5/0s that mustad makes. That's usually the hook size we use from March until May when the tinker mackerels are present (before hardtails show up). Just be cognizant of the knot you tie. Most people that fish with me for the first time are blown away with the hooks we use (how small they are). We are catching all of our tunas on hooks no bigger than a nickel, maybe a quarter at largest. 

4/0-tinker mackerels (usually prevalent from march through late may)
5/0-6/0 for small hardtails
7/0 for big threadfin herring or pogies

11/0 for livebaiting small tunas FOR big tunas (not marlin, but landed plenty on that setup as well)

18/0-20/0 for livebaiting slightly bigger tunas (5# to 40# tunas) for marlin (bridled of course)


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Mullit, I forgot to even mention possibly going up on leader size. Everyone always ponders the possibility of having to drop their leader size but rarely is there mention of going up. If there are big fish and they are munching all day long on baits riged with 80lb and you want to shorten fight times, bump it up to 100lb or more. 

Woody, I was very surprised at how low the breaking strengths were. I know that wet lines break a different strengths than dry but I still wouldn't chance it. One thing I will point out though about those particular J-hooks (Owner SSW) is that there was a more noticeable gap in the eye and the shank than with most other makes and that may be why they failed more often. I haven't tried with other hooks on a scale so I don't know. I did look at the Mustad Demons and they seem to be clamped shut pretty damn tight on the eyes so I don't know if there is too much reason to worry.

I hate slow winters in the shop for 40hrs a week but they do allow me some time to experiment.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Chris V said:


> I did look at the Mustad Demons and they seem to be clamped shut pretty damn tight on the eyes so I don't know if there is too much reason to worry.
> 
> I hate slow winters in the shop for 40hrs a week but they do allow me some time to experiment.


You're probably right. Hunter has gone back to snelling a lot of them and we have yet to lose one but I just can't bring myself to chance it.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

DON'T USE EAGLE CLAW L197 LIGHT WIRE CIRCLES!!! They gut hook like hell and I've straightened out quite a few.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Woody, have ya'll used the Frenzy circles yet? I just started carrying them in the shop this summer but didn't sell a whole lot of them most likely due to customer un-familiarity. Never used them myself.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Ya we have used them for a little while now. They work fine. A few of them (may be the older style, not sure, as I have a bunch of them laying around) have a little bur on the shank-not sure why this is there, DEFINITELY do not snell these if they have them.


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## Mullit (Jun 6, 2011)

Captain Woody Woods said:


> No reason to throw away the hooks. I just don't feel comfortable using that snell knot unless that eye is welded shut. And you can catch 100 pound tuna all day on the light wire 5/0s that mustad makes. That's usually the hook size we use from March until May when the tinker mackerels are present (before hardtails show up). Just be cognizant of the knot you tie. Most people that fish with me for the first time are blown away with the hooks we use (how small they are).
> 
> When I live bait I use a loop knot to help the bait have a free action. One day three hooked tuna three broken loops (aka crotch break). Looked at the box of hooks almost every one in the box had a sharp edge where the eye end was cut. I had other boxes of the same hook with no problem just a bad batch. The cutter was dull or something. Anyway that box of hooks was almost useless without fixing the eye. Even if you cinch down a uni it can turn on the eye and these hooks would have cut spectra. All I am saying is it pays to look. And yes small hooks catch big fish no point having a tiny bait try to drag a monster hook. Eagle claw light wire circle hooks will straighten out under very light drag not a tuna hook.


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## Jagsare1 (Sep 23, 2011)

Some damn good info here and I appreciate reading it all.


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