# need serious help with waypoints



## iceman28o1 (Sep 27, 2007)

First off, im new to offshore fishing. My question is how much difference does it make if your 1-10 numbers off your longitude and latitude on the last digits? for example. I went out to pete tide, liberty, and Burn again. this are example waypoints. the numbers are 30.08.762 and 87.14.017 and when i get there I can only match one of the 2 numbers. I drive around in circles and can never find any structure. I figure i would find something because the ship is suppose to be 180ft. Please help, cause as of now im never going deep sea fishing again. its stressful spending 100.00 in fuel and never finding anything.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

What machine arre you using and is it set up for the numbers like you posted them or just 2 digits on the end?


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Is your unit WAAS capable? If so, is the WAAS feature turned to "on"?

If either answer is no, then you would have trouble with the accuracy of your gps......


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## iceman28o1 (Sep 27, 2007)

its set up for all the long numbers. I was just saying I can match all the numbers except the last number, because current will be too strong or waves crashing into me, but i drove circles around the wrecks for about 30 minutes to see if I spotted anything and even drop down lines to see if I could get hooked to the wreck. the machine im using is a Lawrence 3500 and I have 2 bottom machines. dont have the name to them cause boat not here. I forgot to mention that boat was bought with all the numbers pre loaded on the GPS sd card, but the numbers are usually a couple numbers off from the local reef numbers. Thats why im not sure im going to the right place.


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

Go to the Escambia County Marine Resources website and re-verify your numbers. Also check the range feature on your machine cause it might be set to manual with too shallow a depth to reach the bottom.


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Dont rely on the pre-loaded #'s. As mentioned above, go to the escambia county marine website and get the numbers off of their. Also check out MBT's site as well, as they have numbers as well as descriptions and pictures of the wrecks. If you can get three sets of coordinates for the pete tide, put them all in your gps and you should be able to find the wreck on the bottom.


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## BIGRIGZ (Oct 2, 2007)

Another thing that happened to me was that my transducer got kicked up a little bit from the trailer bunk, and in deeper water it was showing deeper than it really was because the sonar beam was shooting down diagonal off the back of the boat instead of straight down.



Just a precaution; maybe your GPS location was good but your transducer was aimed bad? and you couldn't see anything when you were in the right spot?


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

those last numbers are pretty important. Without the last digit being right, you could be several hundred yards off-site. 

WAAS is the "fudge-factor" that the military puts into the gps signal, so it is not accurate enough for our enemies to use the GPS system to guide their missiles, etc.

WAAS is the signal that is transmitted to "correct" the fudge-factor. It is transmitted all the time, or at least until the military deems itself under attack (like 9/11) or if they are doing training maneuvers, which is when they turn off the signal.

It was been available for some time. Google your gps, and look on the description to see if it is WAAS capable.

Also, I have been in EXACTLY your shoes, circling to find a wreck. ALOT of them moved during hurricanes, so any "old" numbers you have are probably toast. I have LOTS of old numbers, and there is nothing there anymore....

Best place to start is to load the county numbers into your GPS. Most have been verified by the county guy who inspects the reefs before and after deployment.

http://www.co.escambia.fl.us/Bureaus/CommunityServices/ArtificialReefs.html

They have them arranged in "areas". Just read the site.....


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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

The OLE Scratch Your Head.

I may be wrong, but I think some of the wrecks you are looking for are older wrecks. Theres not much left of the Born Again. Maybe some one who dives will chime in and let us know the condition of the wrecks. 

Now with the question on the .### of the GPS. Say 30*19. 125 N compared to 30*19.135 N is not very far at all. I have found that some numbers will be different than the listed numbers for such wreck. One good thing with the GPS is once you mark it with your unit you will be able to go riteback to it. I have never marked a wreck and have the exact numbers ofsame wreck that is on a chart.


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## wrightackle (Oct 29, 2007)

Don't know anything about the Lowrance GPS. I do know that the cheapest Garmin handheld GPS will put you within 10 to 15 feet of the spot. It is always good insurance to carry a handheld GPS anyway. It can save the day. If you go to the Escambia County Reef sites mentioned above and use their coordinates you can't go wrong. Stay away from the MBT numbers. I am not smart enough to use the numbers. Just enter the numbers in the machine, select goto and use the compunav feature to take you to the spot. If you have the right numbers in the machine there will be no looking involved.


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## Mattatoar (Apr 30, 2008)

It is possible that the previous owner altered the way that Lat/Lon are displayed as in minutes and seconds or minutes and then fractions of a minute... there is more than one way to display them; check you set up menu so that the format looks EXACTLY like the numbers you find on the aforementioned sites etc. This error will put you off your mark by hundreds of yards as well... GOOD LUCK...


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Check that your GPS is using the correct "units" or "format"...

Most can be set up to show "Hours... Minutes... seconds" like N32 15' 30.0" W083 16' 15.0"

or "Hours... Minutes... then minute fractions"N32 15.500' W083 16.250"

The above two positions are identical, but presented in different units.

Most "numbers" use the second format, but you're GPS may be set on the first. It should be easy to switch. Unless you know the difference you expect your GPS is correct, but it'sprobably is using the wrong format (units).

By the way, once you are in the correct format, you will probably have to re-enter the data since it was entered in the incorrect format and when you switch to the new format it will read wrong.

I hope this helps.

Jim


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## Instant Karma (Oct 9, 2007)

Practice.... Its easy, just not as easy as it sometimes looks. Also it is helpful for me to split the screen on my sonar. Have one look at the bottom 1/3 and the other look at the entire water column.



Also you must go slow enuf for your GPS to "recycle" and update. If you are zooming around the spot you will have a hard time finding it.



Lastly in this hobby get used to spending $100 and having nothing to show for it.



Good Luck.


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## iceman28o1 (Sep 27, 2007)

thanks for all the info. Ive decided that im gonna practice inshore. Im gonna mark something inshore and then try to find it again some other day. Hopefully this will help me learn how to read the bottom machine better.


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## redlegs (Oct 1, 2007)

Didn't a satellite(s) go "out of service" last year? Check for a software upgrade to your units. This will cause screwy results.



Do you have a single transducer (seem to remember you mentioned two units)? Transducer signals when two or more are used; can interfere with each other.



All great advise above. Find a well known wreck, use several numbers for the same, go explore and test.


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## Scout800 (Mar 22, 2010)

Make sure the gain is set properly on the depth finder as well. If its too low, 4-6 ft of relief won't really show up.


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## C-monsters (Mar 28, 2008)

> *angus_cow_doctor (3/31/2010)**those last numbers are pretty important. Without the last digit being right, you could be several hundred yards off-site*.
> 
> WAAS is the "fudge-factor" that the military puts into the gps signal, so it is not accurate enough for our enemies to use the GPS system to guide their missiles, etc.
> 
> ...


Agree with a lot of this, but not how important the last digit is in GPS. The numbers correspond to degrees, minutes, seconds, and decimal seconds. 

ie. DD.MM.SS(dS)

There is some difference in actual length of a degree depending on where you are in the curvature of the earth, but, one minute of latitude is very close to one nautical mile or 1852 metres.
Therefore:
1 degree = 111,120 meters = 36,4562 feet
1 minute = 1852 meters = 6,076 feet
1 second = 30 meters = 101 feet

That means each decimal second is only about 3 meters, or 9 feet. There is no way you would be several hundred meters off the wreck if you had it to within a couple of seconds on the machine. Most public wrecks are going to be large enough to see some relief, or at least some fish swimming around the main structure of the reef if you are within a second or two in lat and longitude. 

You might also try turning the tracking feature on and zooming in as much as possible. The track will tell you what ground you have covered, so you can more systematically look.

Good luck, and don't give up. There are lots of fish out there to catch, you will get addicted to it.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

> *C-monsters (4/6/2010)*
> 
> 
> > *angus_cow_doctor (3/31/2010)**those last numbers are pretty important. Without the last digit being right, you could be several hundred yards off-site*.
> ...




I agree that each decimal-second is only 9-10 feet. However, considering that there are 9 digits of possibility, that means it could be 9 feet (1 X 9) or 81 feet (9 X 9) and that is just within that one variable.

The next thing is that the gps will only be accurate to a certain level. For me, it seems to be within 90 feet. After zooming in that far, a "circle" is drawn around me on the screen, indicating that I could be anywhere in that area, and the GPS is no longer spot-on accurate within the circle. It is merely guess-timating based on the data it has. Even with the WAAS system enabled.

If you factor in the 9 to 81 feet factor, plus that 90 foot "window" of guess-timation, it turns into a much bigger area to be hunting in. Can you still find a wreck? SURE! Is it going to take several circles? Probably.

If I can remove the 9 to 81 foot variable, that only leaves me with that last 90 feet or so. I can get on a wreck within a couple of circles at that point.

That is what I meant by being off a few hundred yards. Its the combination of several fudge factors. Each one is additive to the degree of inaccuracy. Everything you can do to decrease this will result in less looking for the wreck, and more fishing the wreck.


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## Instant Karma (Oct 9, 2007)

90 feet? Doc you need a new GPS.


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## Deeplines (Sep 28, 2007)

Those #'s are used using the number 2 with a factor of 100,10,1 repsectfully. 

.100 is 200 yards

.110 is 220 yards

.111 is 222 yards

Of course 3 feet in a yard

Thats close enough for government work I guess because that is what the navy uses when doing radar navigation. To be exact the Naticual mile is 6076 feet. divided that out you end up with about 6 or 7 inches different not worth the trouble.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

> *Instant Karma (4/7/2010)*90 feet? Doc you need a new GPS.


LOL..... Don't we all. 

I use a Garmin 176c. It is gps only, and I have seen numerous small planes with that exact same gps mounted in the cockpit, so it must be ok. 

I will say that the "circle of uncertainty" is not always the same size. It is based on the number of satellites being read, and the strength of the WAAS signal. Sometimes, it is as small as 20 feet. I would say it averages between 60 and 90 feet.

I did recently "upgrade" to a garmin 178. That has a fishfinder and a gps all in one. Got it for redundency on the boat. That is 2 model numbers up. I guess I am moving in the right direction.....Even if it is at an extremely slow pace!


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## iceman28o1 (Sep 27, 2007)

thanks guys, Ill keep working on it and see what I come up with. I could just be my bottom machine.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Get numbers for the USS Mass. Put them in your GPS and see how close it takes you. Be careful, you can see it in clear water, it's awash at low tide, but during high tide in crummy water you may not see it till you hit it.

Jim


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## reel trouble (Jan 19, 2010)

Its gonna be a data format problem. Lats and Longs come in different formats. Deg. min and secs. and then you have decimal degrees. If you have them mixed up you will never find anything. If you mark something with the GPS as a waypoint then you will go back to it with no problem. Its in the data entry. Check your manual for the machine. Also about the 100 dollars....a saltwater B.O.A.T. stands for Bust Out Another Thousand bc thats what you will be doing as long as you have it. Thats a fact. Good luck


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