# Bad Charter Experience



## User13776

I have to vent some because I feel like some charter boats here have no respect for their loyal customers. I had a trip planned for a whole year to go out with this one captain, I verified the trip 3 months in advance and again weeks in advance and even picked up a second day out with the same guy. However I was told at the last minute that it was too windy and the conditions where horrible for fishing today so I took the captains advice and allowed the trip to be canceled. However this morning when I awoke, the weather was fine so I was upset that this trip had been canceled , but I was going to give the man the benefit of the doubt, i mean anyone can be wrong about the weather. But what upset me is that this morning I drove past the marina, and his boat was out. I again thought ok maybe its being worked on or something and I will blow this off and go find another charter boat captain to take me out for the day. Well I scheduled another afternoon trip, and when I arrived at 1pm to go out on another trip who's boat do i see pulling up with another group of guys and worse yet, with fish. It became obvious to me i have been lied too. and I am sure money or something was the main cause. I just cant understand how someone can become successful without any ethics at all. I mean trust and loyalty are what make business successful. is there such a glut of tourists here in pensacloa that captains can afford to piss off loyal customers who would be booking trips twice a year with them for a few extra bucks from some other group of men. I could care less what excuse captain ??? comes up with at this point. I dont trust him any more. He has hurt the charter boat business in this town because I will never use another one. I will bring my own boat from now own, regardless of how much trouble it is to haul it.


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## aroundthehorn

Yeah, something doesn't sound right there.


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## fisheye48

genehunter said:


> I have to vent some because I feel like some charter boats here have no respect for their loyal customers. I had a trip planned for a whole year to go out with this one captain, I verified the trip 3 months in advance and again weeks in advance and even picked up a second day out with the same guy. However I was told at the last minute that it was too windy and the conditions where horrible for fishing today so I took the captains advice and allowed the trip to be canceled. However this morning when I awoke, the weather was fine so I was upset that this trip had been canceled , but I was going to give the man the benefit of the doubt, i mean anyone can be wrong about the weather. But what upset me is that this morning I drove past the marina, and his boat was out. I again thought ok maybe its being worked on or something and I will blow this off and go find another charter boat captain to take me out for the day. Well I scheduled another afternoon trip, and when I arrived at 1pm to go out on another trip who's boat do i see pulling up with another group of guys and worse yet, with fish. It became obvious to me i have been lied too. and I am sure money or something was the main cause. I just cant understand how someone can become successful without any ethics at all. I mean trust and loyalty are what make business successful. is there such a glut of tourists here in pensacloa that captains can afford to piss off loyal customers who would be booking trips twice a year with them for a few extra bucks from some other group of men. I could care less what excuse captain ??? comes up with at this point. I dont trust him any more. He has hurt the charter boat business in this town because I will never use another one. I will bring my own boat from now own, regardless of how much trouble it is to haul it.


by the sounds of it...it was a bigger boat...how many was in your party? if it was me and i was that deadset on that boat i would have made a deposit of some kind that if he skipped out i could dispute it and wipe my hands of him...not to say who is right and who is wrong but there are 2 sides to every story


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## Bullshark

That would have pissed me off also. Two sides though. I would confront him and allow him to explain.


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## flappininthebreeze

Post the details. Let him defend himself.


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## FISHBOXFULL

Two sides of what. He booked the charter.the charter canceled for a reason. Boat took out someone else. He didn't name or slander the boat so what more to the story could there be.


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## Matt Mcleod

genehunter said:


> I have to vent some because I feel like some charter boats here have no respect for their loyal customers. I had a trip planned for a whole year to go out with this one captain, I verified the trip 3 months in advance and again weeks in advance and even picked up a second day out with the same guy. However I was told at the last minute that it was too windy and the conditions where horrible for fishing today so I took the captains advice and allowed the trip to be canceled. However this morning when I awoke, the weather was fine so I was upset that this trip had been canceled , but I was going to give the man the benefit of the doubt, i mean anyone can be wrong about the weather. But what upset me is that this morning I drove past the marina, and his boat was out. I again thought ok maybe its being worked on or something and I will blow this off and go find another charter boat captain to take me out for the day. Well I scheduled another afternoon trip, and when I arrived at 1pm to go out on another trip who's boat do i see pulling up with another group of guys and worse yet, with fish. It became obvious to me i have been lied too. and I am sure money or something was the main cause. I just cant understand how someone can become successful without any ethics at all. I mean trust and loyalty are what make business successful. is there such a glut of tourists here in pensacloa that captains can afford to piss off loyal customers who would be booking trips twice a year with them for a few extra bucks from some other group of men. I could care less what excuse captain ??? comes up with at this point. I dont trust him any more. He has hurt the charter boat business in this town because I will never use another one. I will bring my own boat from now own, regardless of how much trouble it is to haul it.


I'm sorry you feel that way Gene. I'm glad we had a good trip on Monday and I hope you have good experiences fishing in Pensacola from now on. 

I have taken you fishing now on two trips, both of them very good. SINCE you are a return customer I am more careful about things like weather because I want for all the trips we have to be good ones. The weather report was wrong. I was wrong. I do the best I can to make the right call and most of the time I'm right, sometimes I'm not.

Last night on my way home from the NMFS meeting in New Orleans after I talked to you Travis Gill, who runs charters for me, called me. I told him I cancelled my trip because the forecast was for rain and wind between 15 and 25 knots for today. He said he was going to try to run his and asked me since I was not running my Blazer Bay could he take it. The other boat is a 21 sea pro and is kept on a trailer instead of in the water like mine. This would be easier for him because he wouldn't have to put a boat in water. I told him that was fine with me, he runs my boat often.

No trip was run in place of yours.

I did not make more money because we didn't do your trip, I made less.

I am disappointed that after two great charters with me you would jump to such a conclusion as you have, and then post it on a forum to bash me without asking me about it first.


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## FISHBOXFULL

There is the rest of the story. I don't think he named any boats or cptns


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## Tyler Massey

FISHBOXFULL said:


> There is the rest of the story. I don't think he named any boats or cptns


He didn't have to, he posted a report for the first trip. It was already public knowledge who the Capt. was. 

The weather forecast was way wrong for today. Lastnight it called for 15-20 knot winds, a good chance of rain and a small craft advisory. I also told my clients that the weather could be bad and asked if they were available for another day.


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## aroundthehorn

Two snaps up. The weather is boing boing this weekend.

Edit: y'all should work this out in private.


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## Matt Mcleod

FISHBOXFULL said:


> There is the rest of the story. I don't think he named any boats or cptns


I don't mind being named. I'm sorry it didn't work out better but the only thing I'm guilty of is not being a very good weather man :no: and being overly cautious so a return customer would have the best trip possible. 

But I can assure you there was no gain, financial or other, from cancelling the trip.


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## FISHBOXFULL

Sounds legit. He was probably just pissed seeing ur boat. Probably didn't think another captn would be using ur boat. It was The last thing I would have thought reading the post.


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## fisheye48

like i said there are 2 sides to every story! The OP should have taken care of it at the lowest level (calling the capt and asking what the deal was) before getting on here and airing the dirty laundry that wasnt even dirty


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## PBTH

Gene,

The conclusions that you have jumped to in public were pretty low. You could have checked a weather forecast for that day as well and seen the same thing that the Capt. was looking at. He was trying to do you a big favor.

You caught fish in kayaks this week, sounds like you caught fish the first day you went out with him, you didn't lose any money on a canceled trip, the weather called for a bad day and it turned out beautiful. All this and you still post this?! I'm sorry your glass is half empty...

I can't tell you how many times I've written a day off due to forecasts, only to wake up and find it beautiful. I've canceled trips with friends and others oodles of times and have had this happen. Everyone has. It's part of fishing.

Be glad you chose a captain with enough moral fiber to even give such an option. Something like this is what separates the great captains from the scumbags. There are plenty of crummy captains across this state that will happily take your money and take you fishing on a terrible day only to hide in a lee shore for hours. 

If you don't wish to fish with this particular captain any more, that's your loss. Trailing your boat down will gain you freedom to do what you want, but it won't guarantee a limit of solid grouper and snapper from the bay. The captain you just denounced is as close as it comes for that...


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## ADRENALINE

ALWAYS have the customer show up in the morning and go from there. This is the only way to run a charter business. 99% of the time, the forecast is wrong anyway. I have saved countless trips this way or put them off until later that day. Plus it shows the customers you are willing to put forth the extra effort to take them out. On the other hand, this customer should have talked with the captain before going public. He might have gotten a discount on his next trip. Just my .02.


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## Neki

You got that right Adrenaline how wrong the weather could be. If all the weather sources are different from each other e.g. Windfinder will say 4-8 knot winds and surfline 10-15 knots opposite direction. Weather channel will be somwhere in the middle of the two along with swell info. When contradicting reports occure like yesterday, then you might want to meet with your clients the next morning.


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## amberj

That captain has always done good for me. I have never personally fished with him but had many other buisness transactions with him through my buisness and has always been an upstanding person. If he is admitting his fault then he is doing better than most people out there would. He has always been very straight forward with me in buisness in the past and I will continue to buisness with him in the future. A very good man and an awesome captain. for sure. I hope that you can settle your differences like gentlemen.


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## sniperpeeps

:whistling:


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## Dragonfire21281

+++ for matt and Hot spots..... pm me a price for a bay grouper trip.... I need time to save up..


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## Chris V

I will agree that you should've called the captain and asked for some answers as well as checking the forecast yourself. Matt has always had a solid reputation for his charter services and I doubt he has come to the point where he feels that reputation is enough to carry him through bad dealings with repeat customers. You should always give someone the chance to explain before ASSuming and calling them out on a public board.

There are some other additives posted above that I would contribute to but have decided not to stir another pot.


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## keperry1182

There's a lesson in there somewhere


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## Pinksnappertrapper

I will use matt or chris for any charter i have and i refer matt or chris to anyone else i know. I like tyler and the rest of the inshore capts. but i wont use anyone or recomend anyone but Matt or Chris.


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## captwesrozier

I think the story here is the fact that genehunter has not replied since his first post. i am 99% sure he has read Capt Matt's reason for his boat not being there and knows now he responded in the wrong venue.

I also say as I am sure Capt Matt would say we should not give genehunter a hard time because like all of us if we had waited all year long to go fishing and was told weather was bad and saw the capt's boat gone we would be very disappointed and when we are disappointed our reasoning skills quickly are left behind in our decision making.

I know Capt Matt...he is a very dear friend of mine and I know he would NEVER cancel any CUSTOMER repeat or new for an extra dollar.

I am sure if genehunter calls on Capt Matt again...Capt Matt will taking him fishing again and do as excellent a fishing trip as Capt Matt can do!

I will also say that we have a very excellent group of inshore and near shore Captains in the Pensacola area that by far do a great job for our clients day in and day out!

Who the top captain is in our area is only in the minds of our clients!!!!!

tight lines and please please GATORS best the BULL DOGS!

capt wes rozier


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## User13776

*in transit*

i am in transit and will be glad to give more details when I get home


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## User13776

Here are the details. I called matt 6 times between 6:00 and 6:30pm Thursday night because I was trying to see what else we could think of and I had to discuss it with my wife. But my last conversation with Matt , I told him that I really wanted to go fishing and I did not care if I had to wear a raincoat or if there was some wind I wanted to fish. I also instructed him to call me back that night or in the morning if anything changed because I still wanted to go. Now knowing all of this on thursday night I cant understand how you can give the boat to someone else. I dont understand how you would give up my time slot to someone else who probably did not wait a whole year fr that trip, when you knew what it meant to me and my wife. The truth is somewhat evident now, and that is that you where too tired after coming back from New Orleans to keep your commitment and so you used the weather as an excuse and then to make me even more upset you let someone else take a family out on that same boat in my time slot, as if the weather was too bad to take me out, buts its perfectly safe for a family of 5. You can slice and dice this as many ways as you want captain, you can spin it all year long, but in my book it sucks and there aint no way you can explain your actions other than you just did not want to work that particular day, you could have easily called me friday morning and said, he man I was wrong about the weather, lets go fishing in another boat or a bathtub with a trolling motor and I would have been ok with it. But to leave me like that , well thats not how you treat a customer.


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## whome

genehunter said:


> The truth is somewhat evident now, and that is that you where too tired after coming back from New Orleans to keep your commitment and so you used the weather as an excuse and then to make me even more upset you let someone else take a family out on that same boat in my time slot, as if the weather was too bad to take me out, buts its perfectly safe for a family of 5.


If I had to guess, if Matt was too tired to go then he knows at least 10 captains he probably trust to take his boat and take you fishing and he would have still gotten a cut and made money if he wanted. I am sure that was not the case. The weather was crappy, bottom line....It sucks and it happens. I don't believe Matt screwed you, Sorry you feel that way...


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## Chris Phillips

Matt and I both worked Friday AM, he could have just as easily taken you fishing. I promise you it had noting to do with being tired or not wanting to go fishing. You are a return customer and he wanted to ensure you the best trip, you have went twice and both were great trips and the reports were posted on the PFF. We had a boat sit on the trailer all day Friday that made 0 dollars and trust me we don't run the number of trips we do in a year looking for ways to cancel trips. I don't expect you to give us another chance, but I hope you give the remainder of the captains in this community a try!


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## sniperpeeps

The way I see it, Capt. Matt made a call based on the weather not to fish. He did not fish based on his knowledge and experience and did not want to charge a client money for the experience of fishing inclement weather, end of story. What another Capt did with the same boat is irrelevant and the other Capt and his clients business.

Capt Matt does this for a living and he is good at it. I would respect his opinion on weather and quality of a fishing charter in inclement weather. If the weather ended up nice that morning contrary to reports, maybe you should have gone to the pier or the surf and wet a line instead of assuming your capt did you wrong.


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## oxbeast1210

Chris,
I want to do A bay charter trip sometime Is there any way you can focus on making it teaching charter I like catching, but I have my own boat and want to learn to catch on my own too .


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## Chris Phillips

We do instructional trips like that all the time, the bay grouper and snapper fishing is much more simple than people make it out to be. Did you go on a walk-on on our offshore boat one time oxbeast?


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## Capt. Myles Colley

From the way you act on here I wouldn't take you fishing either. What a pain in the a$$.


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## fisheye48

genehunter said:


> Here are the details. I called matt 6 times between 6:00 and 6:30pm Thursday night because I was trying to see what else we could think of and I had to discuss it with my wife. But my last conversation with Matt , I told him that I really wanted to go fishing and I did not care if I had to wear a raincoat or if there was some wind I wanted to fish. I also instructed him to call me back that night or in the morning if anything changed because I still wanted to go. *Now knowing all of this on thursday night I cant understand how you can give the boat to someone else. I dont understand how you would give up my time slot to someone else who probably did not wait a whole year fr that trip, when you knew what it meant to me and my wife.* The truth is somewhat evident now, and that is that you where too tired after coming back from New Orleans to keep your commitment and so you used the weather as an excuse and then to make me even more upset you let someone else take a family out on that same boat in my time slot, as if the weather was too bad to take me out, buts its perfectly safe for a family of 5. You can slice and dice this as many ways as you want captain, you can spin it all year long, but in my book it sucks and there aint no way you can explain your actions other than you just did not want to work that particular day, you could have easily called me friday morning and said, he man I was wrong about the weather, lets go fishing in another boat or a bathtub with a trolling motor and I would have been ok with it. But to leave me like that , well thats not how you treat a customer.


He canceled the trip to what he thought the wx was going to suck. he didnt give your "slot" away to another customer. They had another charter lined up with another of their captains. Since he canceled the trip with you he can do whatever in the hell he pleases with his boat. You dont make the monthly payment on it so who are you to say if he lets another captain borrow it to run a trip. It sounds like you are a complete whinny pain in the ass! the trip got canceled. Im pretty sure that it is the captains call on if the trip goes or not. He made the call not to go so as not to put you or any of his clients in harms way. Was the wx report wrong, yes it way..shit happens!!! and as far as calling you the morning of...once again im pretty sure that wasnt gonna happen since he has to get all the tackle, boat, and bait ready for the trip...that isnt gonna happen in a 15-20 min window!


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## User13776

I did check the forecast myself in at least three places. Having lived in Pensacola for some 20 years I do know a thing or two about the weather there and I learned a long time ago that certain times of the year are impossible to predict. I told the capt that the weather was wrong for Thursday and my other sites predicted good weather for friday. You guys really just dont get it but then again I really didnt expect you to do anything other than support Matt, I mean he is a nice and likable guy, But i amazes me how your perception of treating a customer has gone down the tubes. I can be sure I wont be booking with any of you any time down the road and who cares. I am sure none of you care. my point exactly. toodles. maybe I will see you next year.


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## bigrick

He cancelled your trip then let someone borrow his boat. I still am not seeing what he did wrong?


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## fisheye48

Sorry I guess we all failed to realize that you are smarter than all of us


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## Hewes your daddy?

To GENEHUNTER, if you think the whole world stinks around you, You should look at the bottom of your own shoe. You may be the common denominator to the stink around you. Seems like the only smelly thing around here is your choice of places to deal with your issues with Matt. It should have been handled in person or over the phone.


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## aroundthehorn

This. Thread. Is. AWESOME.


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## Bill Me

I thought there were two sides to this according to the initial replies, but clearly that was wrong.


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## sniperpeeps

Bill Me said:


> I thought there were two sides to this according to the initial replies, but clearly that was wrong.



Yea there's a right and wrong side


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## lastcast

Or TWO wrong sides.


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## jimmyjams4110

Gene wanted to go fishing with Matt. Matt is awesome. Gene is upset he wasn't able to be in the presence of Matt's awesomeness Friday. 

Thread/


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## fishFEEDER9697

*outside perspective*

Mr. Gene said he was just venting. He was disappointed- understandable. He did not call anybody out in public. I had no idea who he was talking about. 
Then Mr. Matt jumped into P.R. mode. Never met him- probably a stand-up guy. I have seen him _damage controlling_ some drama on here more than once. 
Bring your boat next time Mr. Gene. I don't blame you. You could try someone else though.


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## gcrbama

i would thank gene. i never knew any of your names and now i know who to call for a good trip. good advertisement.


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## Bill Me

sniperpeeps said:


> Yea there's a right and wrong side


And let me guess which side you are on.


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## DLo

Yeah...I think we get it...you wanted to fish, he made a call and you didn't get to. He let someone borrow his boat. And you decided to puke your hurt feelings all over the forum where the man makes a living and feeds his family. Get over yourself. Hell, you posted without even being a man and calling him to discuss it. Does that about cover it? And by the way...I would never let a man that uses the word "toodles" on my boat, no matter what he is paying.


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## User13776

I am going to say this to all you charter boat captains out there. If you cancel a trip a day early based on a weather report when you have been out of town for two days and you don't have fist hand knowledge and you choose to stiff your customer, then your just a wuss and that's putting it nicely. But if you then let someone else who works for you take that same boat out with a family after you canceled then you are an ass. The customer is always right, and I am the customer. go ahead and flame me. I wont be back on this sorry excuse for a board again, and I wont go out with any of you assholes either.


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## wetley49

"and I wont go out with any of you assholes either."


So.... how do you really feel?


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## Buckethead

genehunter said:


> I am going to say this to all you charter boat captains out there. If you cancel a trip a day early based on a weather report when you have been out of town for two days and you don't have fist hand knowledge and you choose to stiff your customer, then your just a wuss and that's putting it nicely. But if you then let someone else who works for you take that same boat out with a family after you canceled then you are an ass. The customer is always right, and I am the customer. go ahead and flame me. I wont be back on this sorry excuse for a board again, and I wont go out with any of you assholes either.


 
Way to act like an adult. I'm sure Matt will miss your business, you must have been a complete joy to fish with.


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## beeritself

Dang, anyone see the amount of views this thread has gotten. I believe it was 3,140 when I just clicked on it. By my math, thats around 6,200 eyes looking at this, unless there is a large one-eyed cyclops population on the forum...


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## fisheye48

genehunter said:


> I am going to say this to all you charter boat captains out there. If you cancel a trip a day early based on a weather report when you have been out of town for two days and you don't have fist hand knowledge and you choose to stiff your customer, then your just a wuss and that's putting it nicely. But if you then let someone else who works for you take that same boat out with a family after you canceled then you are an ass. The customer is always right, and I am the customer. go ahead and flame me. I wont be back on this sorry excuse for a board again, and I wont go out with any of you assholes either.


AWWWW somebody is butthurt!!! get over yourself...he canceled from what he saw as a bad wx day...the customer isnt always right in the charter business...it is the captains responsibility to make sure is clients are safe 100% of the time! If your so damn good at all this why dont you get your captains license and start running your own charters!


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## prsumner

fisheye48 said:


> AWWWW somebody is butthurt!!! get over yourself...he canceled from what he saw as a bad wx day...the customer isnt always right in the charter business...it is the captains responsibility to make sure is clients are safe 100% of the time! If your so damn good at all this why dont you get your captains license and start running your own charters![/QUOTE
> 
> Or maybe he should be a weatherman!


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## fisheye48

prsumner said:


> fisheye48 said:
> 
> 
> 
> AWWWW somebody is butthurt!!! get over yourself...he canceled from what he saw as a bad wx day...the customer isnt always right in the charter business...it is the captains responsibility to make sure is clients are safe 100% of the time! If your so damn good at all this why dont you get your captains license and start running your own charters![/QUOTE
> 
> Or maybe he should be a weatherman!
> 
> 
> 
> that also...maybe both since he is always right
Click to expand...


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## whome

genehunter said:


> I wont go out with any of you assholes either.


thank god!:thumbsup: How could anyone put up with your whining for 4 hours?


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## redfish99999

Tune in to the BS channel and hear how the charter guys talk about their customers...........You will never trust or have any respect for them.......

I cannot say about the inshore guides but the offshore boats are in it for themselves and think its funny to screw their customers..... For example, a charter captain was bragging to his friend how he had told his customers that the ladyfish they were catching were young tarpon fish.......The customers did not know the difference..... There were multiple cancellations after the oil spill because the charter guys knew they could make more money and easier by working for BP than going fishing....There are plenty other examples.....


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## gcrbama

wow. i have never heard of butthurt before but i guess thats what gene is feeling. this sorry excuse for a board has led me in the right direction 1000times over any other site i have tried. good luck finding a better one. there has been a lot of aggression on here lately. while i listen in the background to my wifes soaps on tv I'm getting my own fix here. I'm sure matt may think about this often but lose zero biz from it. maybe gain a few trips from it.


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## fisheye48

redfish99999 said:


> Tune in to the BS channel and hear how the charter guys talk about their customers...........You will never trust or have any respect for them.......
> 
> I cannot say about the inshore guides but the offshore boats are in it for themselves and think its funny to screw their customers..... For example, a charter captain was bragging to his friend how he had told his customers that the ladyfish they were catching were young tarpon fish.......The customers did not know the difference..... *There were multiple cancellations after the oil spill because the charter guys knew they could make more money and easier by working for BP than going fishing.*...There are plenty other examples.....


if they tell you they would have made more fishing than with BP they are LYING!!! hell yeah i would have canceled all my trips if i have a chance with the BP thing...$1600/day 7 days a week for a few months? the math is easy on that one


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## nojerseydevil

aroundthehorn said:


> This. Thread. Is. AWESOME.


You said it. I've been reading this like a good book...

NJD


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## ADRENALINE

redfish99999 said:


> Tune in to the BS channel and hear how the charter guys talk about their customers...........You will never trust or have any respect for them.......
> 
> I cannot say about the inshore guides but the offshore boats are in it for themselves and think its funny to screw their customers..... For example, a charter captain was bragging to his friend how he had told his customers that the ladyfish they were catching were young tarpon fish.......The customers did not know the difference..... There were multiple cancellations after the oil spill because the charter guys knew they could make more money and easier by working for BP than going fishing....There are plenty other examples.....


WOW!! You are way off base on that statement. You hear one Captain on the radio and assume that is they way "offshore boats" operate??


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## Dragonfire21281

hey Ox Beast... Lets get a group together of 4 and set up one of those bay trips... we could split all cost...


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## fishFEEDER9697

*beat down*

I know most of you guys don't take these boards too seriously, and maybe that dude is a bit sensitve, but it is sad how y'all just ganged up on him. Sure, this was probably not the best place to air it out but he could have been encouraged to work it out seeing all the nice things everyone has to say about Mr. Matt. This exclusive aire and elitist attitude really doesn't say much for the group. Talk about disappointment. 
Go ahead, lay it on me.


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## submariner

I agree with fishfeeder9697. While a overall review of the "stated" facts indicate Capt Matt was not really trying to screw over Gene, the bottom line is that Gene planned this trip for a long time and really want to go, regardless of the weather. His intial post did not indicate what captain or boat and I didn't know and would not have known unless informed. Tell me; why is it Gene's responsiblity to make the call to Matt to work it out? Has Matt or anyone from the organization tried to call Gene to discuss. I would assume ( bad practice) that a business would initate steps to resolve any misunderstandings. That is why I agree with fishfeeder9697- why gang up on Gene. I as most of you know and has been pointed out already, the weather predictions are at best questionable. If one captain was planning on taking out a family of 5, why couldn't Matt take Gene but felt confortable lending his boat? Gene was overly agressive- a result of having a long term dream dashed


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## Chris Phillips

There is no doubt that this situation should have and could have been handled differently. I may be wrong, but I don’t believe the fishing charter business is one where you can’t treat all of your customers the same. Different people are looking for different things when they climb on the boat. There are some families of five who are looking to get a bite and other groups wanting to know how many limits we’re going to be able to keep. We always catch all we can, but its easier to take someone with less expectations when the weather isn't favorable. A lot of the time we fish in open water bay or gulf and weather affects us differently than some of the other guides who are great at catching speckled or redfish on charters behind protected land. When the wind blows 15-20 out of the NE and our customer wants to bottom fish in the bay we are left in a tight spot, but we unfortunately we have built our business around inshore bottom fishing. We actually cancel or reschedule trips all of the time with return customers or ones we know are looking to do a particular type of fishing that we don’t feel the conditions will allow us to do. Matt felt this was the case with Mr. Hunter, he has went with Matt twice, once just five days before this scheduled trip. As stated a million times the weather man missed it and we lost out on the money just as Mr. Hunter lost out on going fishing. This trip was scheduled for Friday and on Monday of that week Matt took Mr. Hunter and his wife king mackerel fishing, caught 7-8 fish with one weighing 28 pounds on a 4-hour trip and Mr. Hunter called it a tough day. Mr. Hunter has his bar set high when he fishes with Matt and there is nothing wrong with that, but this wasn’t a situation where we could have taken him and his wife fishing and caught a few redfish off a dock out of the wind. The vast majority of the time our customers leave very happy, but maybe we need to reconsider our canceling and rescheduling due to iffy weather… 

Here are the previous two trips, I sure wouldn’t be happy with a couple rat reds after these two trips! 

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f29/hsc-reds-bay-snapper-grouper-great-day-77009/

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f29/fishing-matt-mccleod-today-100580/


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## Garbo

Bless both Parties. 

At a risk of being bashed........

I am glad I don't have to be on either side. I fish as much as I can and have most of my life. I find the thrill in the pursuit of understanding, pursuing, finding, fooling my target, more than the catching or killing of the target. I see hunting much the same way. I don't hire out someone to take me fishing and rightfully so, I want to do the fun stuff too, instead of someone else doing it for me, same goes for hunting. 

I have seen many many pictures taken at the dock after a chartered fishing trip and have always wondered, "what are they so proud of?" the guy driving the boat did all the fun stuff of figuring it all out. The guys that paid for trip did almost nothing but work on the catching and killing part or the least interesting to me. A picture of that sort to me would seem almost pointless, except for the relationship I may have with the people that were on the trip together, the guy driving the boat has more reason to be in the picture with the fish. 

I once hunted in a high fenced property and had a free pass to shoot what ever I chose to shoot. I saw 2 definate and one maybe that would have scored over 150" and didn't shoot any one of the three, as I didn't see how I could look at it and be proud of what I accomplished. I don't see hiring someone to take me catching any different. So naturally I don't do it. But, my heart goes out to the guys that have to deal with each individual "sportsman" and fill the day with what they expect to accomplish and each individual "sportsman" being at different levels in the ability and expectation of what a "Good Day" is. 

I hope all involved work out their differences and settle their disagreements and stay friends, because that is much more important than a single fishing trip.


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## captwesrozier

GARBO's last paragraph says it all! When I say this I mean ALL of US!!!!!!


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## bjones20

Best thing to do is keep your mouth shut on this forum cause no matter what you say your going to get thrown in the dirt . just read a couple of Threads 90% of the time some ones getting ragged on. people are assholes .


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## WW2

I can say two things about this thread. 
1. When the customer saw the boat come off the water, if it didn't have your captain on it then he didn't screw you. He told you it was cancelled and he didn't go. Let's even assume you were right, let's assume for a second that he was just too tired to go. He may have saved your life by not going. A captain that is not awake on the water could really get into trouble when the time comes to make good decisions on the water. 

2. Looks like lots of charter captains in this area could use to learn ALOT about customer service. I have never seen these types of remarks from the worst big box store I have ever been to. It's good to see you guys are making so much money that you can turn down business the way you are.


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## aroundthehorn

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> I know most of you guys don't take these boards too seriously, and maybe that dude is a bit sensitve, but it is sad how y'all just ganged up on him. Sure, this was probably not the best place to air it out but he could have been encouraged to work it out seeing all the nice things everyone has to say about Mr. Matt. This exclusive aire and elitist attitude really doesn't say much for the group. Talk about disappointment.
> Go ahead, lay it on me.


Well, a lot of people don't realize that a ton of people on here know a ton of other people. A lot of posters here hang out with each other, apparently. Not my cup of tea. 

The OP surely knew how things are on this board, but it's also not good business sense to air out dirty laundry in public, either. Honestly, I had no idea that the OP was referring to Hot Spots until they responded to him. Just speaking generally, if you have a business affiliation in your sig--especially as a guide--it doesn't make sense to post about anything besides real fishing or technical issues or reports. Certainly you shouldn't bicker with people or post in OT threads, etc. You never know who you are going to offend. All this could have been settled with one or two phone calls.


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## SaltAddict

Aroundthehorn is right, this thread is butterin' my popcorn!

My 2 cents: which coupled with a dollar bill might get you a stick of bubble gum. I spent 7 months without a boat after having one for 8 years. Worst 7 months I can remember. I was at the mercy of charters (diving). My days off were usually week days. Try finding 3 people with a week day off and $150 to throw in the water. Several other factors made charter diving cause me to be disappointed. Finally I found the project boat I was looking for, and back on the water I was. Moral of the story: if you have your own boat, use it. No one to blame but yourself. And... you assume the risk of running in inclimate weather.

This opinion of mine is in no way a bash on the captains and guides in this area. I know many of you guys. I fish next to you often. Many of you have verbally pointed me in the right direction of a hot bite. If a friend came into town and wanted to get on the water with a pro, there are many of you that I would recommend.


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## SolarFlare

Haven't seen one of these in a while....what a trainwreck!


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## Mayday

I just joined few months ago and love fishing.
Will be moving to Pensacola/Orange Beach area soon and was looking forward to many fishing trips on charter boats. 

Here's my 2cents

OP was just crying about how his fishing get away trip got thrown out and didn't mention any names and so forth. Well... yes one might go in deep research and find out who the charter company might be but for most of out of town customer, won't care to research nor care to remember company(or cptn) name from this thread. However, once company(or cptn) come out and post public defense PR... I say that's a mistake. That OP can go find new cptn easily but Company(or cptn) reputation can be put down so quick.

As from customer point of view, OP should have known these things do happen and just move on to new cptn or company. The sad truth here is, yes 1)cptn could have called you in the morning and given you alternative option or un-cancel the trip 2)cptn could have made extra calls and put you on different boat 3)cptn could have put you on his boat with that family as return for letting other cptn use his boat.. But sadly you are one of 1000 clients he has and ONLY 'twice a year' sounds small customer. Not really worthy customer to bend his back backward. I feel sorry for the Original Poster and now I see which charter service is in the bottom of my list. Let's move on to cptn and let me know if you find one that will bend his back backward for small clinents.


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## MGuns

Reminds me of the good old PFF!! Never a dull moment.


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## Bill Me

I don't know, actually fairly dull. No blood, no boobs, no posters in jail. I've seen better.


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## whome

Bill Me said:


> no posters in jail. I've seen better.


That time was the haydays of this forum


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## Aqua Therapy

So we have a misunderstanding and the customer was not happy. I was going to suggest give the client a discount on his next trip, (kiss and make up). Possibly keep your future business with this client and maintain a good reputation. Just reading this thread, I'd say slim chances at this point.


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## need2fish

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> That time was the haydays of this forum


a classic indeed.....the Woody introspective on the GCFC Where's team recess post was pretty good until they closed the thread.


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## shipoke

This thread could have been planned. If it was, it was Marketing at its finest. Genius
I have guys at work that fuss and fight like this and play nine holes afterwards.
Shipoke.


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## User13776

Chris Phillips said:


> There is no doubt that this situation should have and could have been handled differently. I may be wrong, but I don’t believe the fishing charter business is one where you can’t treat all of your customers the same. Different people are looking for different things when they climb on the boat. There are some families of five who are looking to get a bite and other groups wanting to know how many limits we’re going to be able to keep. We always catch all we can, but its easier to take someone with less expectations when the weather isn't favorable.
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, I had no intention of Bashing Matt, He volunteered himself and honestly I was not looking for that. When two people enter into a verbal agreement or contract, I am pretty sure I would end up in jail if I did not pay the Captain after my day out on the water, where is the accountability for the captains. I mean I planned a week for this trip, I payed for gas, condo fees, and the whole trip was a fishing trip. This day out with Matt was the best part of the trip and was what everthing else was planned around. In other words , my trip was not a complete failure , but its like going to the daytona 500 and not getting in the gate to see the race. Sure its a lot of fun anyways but who cares. Matt is a good guy all around. I am sure he had no idea how much time I spent planning this trip. But thats my point. You guys need to treat everyone the same and when you make a commitment to take someone out, just be honest with them and keep your commitment. there are two sides to any commitment or agreeement. How come you expect me to keep my side , but you dont make any attempt to try and keep yours. You could have easily had me put in jail if I wnt out with you and did not pay you for the trip, but where is your accountabilty for not making an honest effor to fullfill your half of the agreement. You could have called me back when the other captain told you the weather was not that bad, you could have called me back the next morning when you woke to hear the bluebirds singing and the sun shinning, you could have called me up until lunch , but you did not make any attempts to fullfill your obligations to me. For you captain I realize its just a missed day of chartering, but for me Its much much more important to me. It was the reason for the whole trip. I did not want to go fishing for King Mackerel, I wanted to go fishing for Grouper. The second trip was not the reason for the trip, it was a bonus for myself and my wife. we did enjoy it, but its not why we came. I dont expect you to produce fish, I just expect you to try, is that asking for too much. Just get out there and try, I mean its called fishing not shopping.


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## Catchin Hell

I’d like to make the following points with regards to both parties:
1. Matt owns/leases his boat, he can darn well cancel any/every trip he wants to no matter what the reason… In actuality, he doesn’t even have to give a reason—it’s his boat and business to do with as he chooses.
2. Gene certainly has a 1st Amendment right to express his opinion and relay facts related to any business as he sees fit, whether it’s on this forum or some other customer review website as long as he refrains from libel or slander of said entity. It’s his choice to keep it public or private; if he chooses public, he also risks his personal reputation being tarnished if he’s wrong. There’s no one size fits all rule as to how a customer should complain about a business whether he keeps the business name anonymous or not. He can certainly complain to anyone who will listen and the more that are listening, the more likely he is to receive a satisfactory resolution if he’s “in the right.”
3. Capitalism works because there’s always a suitable substitute. In this case, Matt may have to find a more flexible customer and Gene may have to find a more schedule rigid captain if they can’t work it out between them. 
4. It’s between Gene and Matt to work it out whether in public or private.
That said, I’ll sit back and watch this fiasco from the sidelines as I’m often asked, “Who would you recommend for a charter.” Rather than recommend; often times, my answers are more along the lines of who I don’t recommend as there are many deserving charter captains and singling one out is not fair to the rest. I wish both Gene and Matt the best and hope they can reach a speedy resolution and put this behind them…
BTW, the only way my boat is going fishing without me is if whoever drives it is on my boat insurance policy as an additional driver, especially fishing into forecasted bad weather—JMHO.


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## Catchin Hell

Just so no one thinks I'm trying to poke a stick in Matt's eye with my last comment, it can also be construed that Matt is also a very trusting individual to let someone else drive his boat with a crew into impeding inclement weather. Digest it however you want and fire-a-way...


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## Catchin Hell

genehunter said:


> I am going to say this to all you charter boat captains out there. If you cancel a trip a day early based on a weather report when you have been out of town for two days and you don't have fist hand knowledge and you choose to stiff your customer, then your just a wuss and that's putting it nicely. But if you then let someone else who works for you take that same boat out with a family after you canceled then you are an ass. The customer is always right, and I am the customer. go ahead and flame me. I wont be back on this sorry excuse for a board again, and I wont go out with any of you assholes either.


 

LOL Gene... Doing some back reading, I think they got to you... :001_huh: Now apologize to the board, sit back, and see how this all plays out:whistling: It might help to turn your pm's on to...


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## captwesrozier

Is anybody fishing today?

Is the bay rough?

Should I go out and try to fish?

Hot Spots Charters...i do not have a booking until the day after thanksgiving...I need one so please send me a trip...I am now eating spam for dinner as I was eating Steak.

Also everybody please do not forget the meeting for your boat rights to use the gulf island national seashore in gulf breeze naval live oak building. Date is November 8th 330pm to 630pm


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## Ron19

fishFEEDER9697 said:


> I know most of you guys don't take these boards too seriously, and maybe that dude is a bit sensitve, but it is sad how y'all just ganged up on him. Sure, this was probably not the best place to air it out but he could have been encouraged to work it out seeing all the nice things everyone has to say about Mr. Matt.* This exclusive aire and elitist attitude really doesn't say much for the group.* Talk about disappointment.
> Go ahead, lay it on me.


 
Hit the nail on the head......


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## swhiting

Is it too late to bash somebody's Bertram, call the GCFC names, make fun of pier rats or accuse someone of running dogs across my private property?


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## sniperpeeps

I would venture to say that both sides wish this had gone differently....


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## fisheye48

swhiting said:


> Is it too late to bash somebody's Bertram, call the GCFC names, make fun of pier rats or accuse someone of running dogs across my private property?


you forgot divers vs fishermen, people anchoring to close to each other on public wrecks, and how one gun shop sucks more than the other


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## axman

Bet Catchen Hell ends up on back of first of year phone book . ONE CALL THATS ALL. LOL come on lets go fishing.


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## metownsend

Wow, let fuss a little about it


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## fsu alex

This has gone on much to long.Nine pages of bitching,thats got to be some kinda record.....:whistling:


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## bdmast2002

I've been out with alot of captains in the Keys, where conditions can change pretty quickly. They usually touch base the night before to give a general outlook and call again in the morning to make a final call based on the current conditions. I've been disappointed more than once at not being able to go fishing after the long trip and expenditure, but it was always the right call at the last minute, game time call.


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## Bullshark

swhiting said:


> Is it too late to bash somebody's Bertram, call the GCFC names, make fun of pier rats guilty or accuse someone of running dogs across my private property? Again guilty


Bullshark


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## Splittine

fsu alex said:


> This has gone on much to long.Nine pages of bitching,thats got to be some kinda record.....:whistling:


No even close.


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## swhiting

fsu alex said:


> This has gone on much to long.Nine pages of bitching,thats got to be some kinda record.....:whistling:





Splittine said:


> No even close.


Barely getting started compared to some.

Let's see, I've been told I left out divers v fisherman and anchoring too close on all my private public wrecks... did I mention Tebow, college football (in particular the reF$U Criminoles), Christianity, potheads trying to justify their carnal nature, don't judge me 5 beers don't make me drunk anyway, license boaters, except me, cause y'all don't know squat on the water other than my friends and when's the next get together so I can bring napkins while everyone else needs to bring steak & shrimp :thumbup:


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## Yaksquatch

swhiting said:


> Barely getting started compared to some.
> 
> Let's see, I've been told I left out divers v fisherman and anchoring too close on all my private public wrecks... did I mention Tebow, college football (in particular the reF$U Criminoles), Christianity, potheads trying to justify their carnal nature, don't judge me 5 beers don't make me drunk anyway, license boaters, except me, cause y'all don't know squat on the water other than my friends and when's the next get together so I can bring napkins while everyone else needs to bring steak & shrimp :thumbup:


Ya'll forgot about jet skis!

Alex


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## aroundthehorn

fisheye48 said:


> you forgot divers vs fishermen, people anchoring to close to each other on public wrecks, and how one gun shop sucks more than the other


A parasailing boat cut me off today and the captain gave me the finger.


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## Yakavelli

Holy Shit


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## Kingfish880

Yaksquatch said:


> Ya'll forgot about jet skis!
> 
> Alex


^This

I also had something witty to say about this thread in its early stages. But after reading through all 10 pages...I'm just too tired.


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## kahala boy

User13776 said:


> I have to vent some because I feel like some charter boats here have no respect for their* loyal* customers.
> 
> How many trips before you consider yourself *LOYAL*? If you were truly a loyal customer, wouldn't you understand or contact him directly to find ouut what happened?
> 
> I had a trip planned for a whole year to go out with this one captain, I verified the trip 3 months in advance and again weeks in advance and even picked up a second day out with the same guy. However I was told at the last minute that it was too windy and the conditions where horrible for fishing today so I took the captains advice and allowed the trip to be canceled. However this morning when I awoke, the weather was fine so I was upset that this trip had been canceled ,* but I was going to give the man the benefit of the doubt*,
> 
> i mean anyone can be wrong about the weather. But what upset me is that this morning I drove past the marina, and his boat was out. I again thought ok maybe its being worked on or something and I will blow this off and go find another charter boat captain to take me out for the day. Well I scheduled another afternoon trip, and when I arrived at 1pm to go out on another trip who's boat do i see pulling up with another group of guys and worse yet, with fish. It became obvious to me i have been lied too. and I am sure money or something was the main cause. I just cant understand how someone can become successful without any ethics at all. I mean trust and loyalty are what make business successful. is there such a glut of tourists here in pensacloa that captains can afford to piss off loyal customers _*who would be booking trips twice a year with them *_
> Was this comment based on past (annual?) bookings or future possible bookings because of how good the last one went?
> 
> for a few extra bucks from some other group of men. _*I could care less what excuse captain ??? comes up with at this point.*_
> 
> I dont trust him any more. _*He has hurt the charter boat business in this town because I will never use another one*_.
> Kind of like saying that you will not go to any restaurant because one of them had bad service...
> I will bring my own boat from now own, regardless of how much trouble it is to haul it.


Sorry, but it just sounds like my 5 year old throwing a fit....


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## Dylan

Dont forget about pier fishermen...And damn boats...Ooo and sailfish..Ooo and Obamacare:thumbup:


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## Catchin Hell

:starwars:Geeze... I guess the playground was too big for Gene.


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## AQUAMAN

I am pretty tired of reading this also. Gene, sorry your trip was cancelled, but I don't understand why all of you guys are kissing this captains ass so much. It is like a gang of kids beating up on one guy. I don't think many of you would get to go fishing with this dude unless you had cash!!! Gene, next time 
bring your own boat and fish! Everyone else stay out of it. It is not like you have never felt cheated out of something before.


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