# Boat repair timeline



## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

My boat has a major issue, blown powerhead. I have not had a working boat since Christmas. Here is my repair timeline:
1/4/12 dropped of the boat
15 days later 1/19 Mechanic called said I had a blow powerhead $3700, next day I delivered a $2000 deposit.
2/2/2012 (19 days later) boat is ready
I start break in period and determine it is not working good. To eliminate another possible issue have another mechanic replace the fuel lines from motor to tank. I dropped it off on 2/3 and get it back on 2/6.
2/6/2012 back to original mechanic. 
2/22/2012 16 days later mechanic calls to say the powerhead they used was bad and they pulled the new one off and ordered the replacement.
3/8/2012 (17 days later) I call to get an update and was told that the part just arrived and it should be ready next week.

So I still don't have a boat. Would you use this shop again? It's a Yamaha 90. 2 stroke.


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

I believe the original mechanic should have done the break in and sea trial after the work was done. This way any other problems could be quickly resolved and would result in more business for the mechanic. If it was me doing the work I would want a 100% happy return customer. It's just good business.


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

My question is why did he not test the powerhead that was going on before install or after installed t make sure it was good? Also why did he put a used one on? was this by your recommendation or was it stated it was a new powerhead going on?? just seems very shady that he instantly knew what the problem was


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## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

it is a new powerhead. He had it back in the shop 16 days before he called to say the new powerhead was bad so it was not instantly.


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

Johnms said:


> it is a new powerhead. He had it back in the shop 16 days before he called to say the new powerhead was bad so it was not instantly.


but still why did he not test it before calling you saying it was ready? just seems shady.


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## TheCaptKen (Mar 14, 2011)

Sea testing the engine is one thing, breaking it in is another. Time is money and if you want to pay the hourly rate for that mechanic to ride around in your boat for a day, then ask them to break it in. A simple sea test will tell if there is a problem or not. As for how long it takes, it depends on how busy the shop is but that time of year, they should have been faster.


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## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

While I would not expect them to do the 10 hour break in, a sea trial to be sure its running good makes a lot sense. Again this whole powerhead thing has taken 3 months. I just want my boat back. When I dropped it off the told me this was their slow time. When they asked for the deposit they said it was their slow time. 16 days to even look at the issue on a boat coming back in? Would you use this shop again? I think I need a faster reliable Yamaha shop.


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## SHO-NUFF (May 30, 2011)

Why did it blow up?
Was it lack of oil, overheated, a lean fuel condition, or too much timing? Something went wrong, and if not corrected, the new. or rebuilt power head will fail also. 
Outboards require little break in time. The crank and rods run on roller bearings, so it is basically waiting for the rings to seat and this does not take long at all. 
A good mechanic should consider and isolate the reason for the failure in the first place, unless you had a ton of hours and the engine was just completely worn out. Or, failure will repeat it self.


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## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

Sho-nuff - I can't definitively say why the first one went out. There was possibly a fuel line issue at the tank because in between powerhead while checking the lines I found a corroded tank connector which has since been replaced, along with all the lines and the pick up tube and screen in the tank. The first one was running rough and I was testing it at different RPM, once I went to WOT that pretty much ended it.


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

And there are 2 sides to every story. the power head we put on was a OBR reman. after the boat was brought back to us we determined it had a pin hole in the exhaust chamber through the water chamber, the reason it took so long to determine this was OBR. i didnt want to dissassemble the power head without approval so as not to void their warranty, we had to ship them the old power head befor they would send me the other new power head. this took them 2 weeks. my hands were tied till i recieved your other power head. Like i told you on the phone Friday, we recieved the power head friday morning, and you will have your boat monday afternoon. tues. morning at the latest. and if you feel you need to find a faster shop, good luck, we have not had a winter and we have not slowed down. I know you didn not mention the name of my shop, but i do not have anything to hide. I apologize for the time this is taking, im doing what i can...


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

The first one blew up from the carbs, lean condition. we rebuilt the carbs during the powerhead job.


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## Patriot (Jun 4, 2009)

Johnms said:


> My boat has a major issue, blown powerhead. I have not had a working boat since Christmas. Here is my repair timeline:
> 1/4/12 dropped of the boat
> 15 days later 1/19 Mechanic called said I had a blow powerhead $3700, next day I delivered a $2000 deposit.
> 2/2/2012 (19 days later) boat is ready
> ...


Yes. I would use Emerald Coast Marine again. 

Kenny Mann is a good man. He runs an outstanding business and he and his technicians are top notch mchanincs. He has offered tens of thouands of dollars of free advise on this forum and taken very good care of his customers both on and off this forum. I have used his shop for my personal boats as well as my customers boats for years. He has never let me down and I have never had to return a boat.

I am sure he is sorry that you feel inconvenienced. In his defense, his shop is always packed due to his stellar reputation. Like all good boat repair contractors, there is typically a wait period before induction into maintenance. Especially, a time consuming jobs like a powerhead swap. 

Kenny will make this right. He is that kind of dude. Just work with him.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe (Nov 5, 2007)

Kenny is absolutely right.
We, the repair facility CAN NOT dissassemble the power head from OBR ( the engine rebuilder). If we take a head off the engine to diagnose a problem they will void the warranty. This is OBR's policy.

There are a couple of things I don't like about this policy.
A, We can't determine the exact cause of a failure which could give a diagnosis of what lead to the failure.
B, We can't inspect for the completeness or quality of a rebuild.
C, We can't repair a damaged powerhead ourselves at less cost if failure is not covered by warranty.

The reason engine rebuilders HAVE to require this policy is that people will do some unscrupulous and down right dirty deeds to cheat an engine rebuilder out of a FREE engine.

OBR is a local Engine rebuild facility that is wholesale only. I sell and endorse their products and do believe they produce quality power heads, gear cases, lower units, and trim systems. They are not cheap, I have personally toured their 50,000+ square foot facility and it is TOP NOTCH. Remember you get what you pay for.

In 8+ years of selling OBR products as a dealer, I have seen only 1 lower unit failure, and 1 Mercury optimax power head failure. The power head I blame completely on the customer. AS I TOLD THE CUSTOMER," YOU DON'T BREAK IN A NEW POWER HEAD COMPETING IN A PROFESSIONAL BASS TOURNAMENT AT WIDE OPEN THROTTLE!!!" 

One thing to keep in mind when repairing or replacing a blown power head, is there is usually something that caused the power head to fail. You need to diagnose and repair what caused the engine to fail in the first place, if you don't you could be doing the rebuild twice!!!
A short list of possible causes of power head failures is dirty carbs causing a lean condition, Bad ignition timing, vacum leaks, overheated engine or hot spots in the block, failing fuel pump. bad oil injection pump, water in your 2 stroke oil tank, restricted fuel system, loose magnets casing ignition timing issues, sheared flywheel key causing ignition timing issues, wrong spark plugs, bad ignition components, dirty or bad fuel injectors, broken or clogged oil lines and filters, and the list goes on and on.

A good shop will spend considerable time verifying the proper operation of every system on your engine after reassembly and during initial run. Please understand it takes time to do this and time is money. 
On the flip side of that coin is a half assed shop is going to get that power head changed out, fire it up, make sure it runs and then call you to pick it up and bring them their money.


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

In case anyone is interested, Mr. Johnms picked his boat this afternoon right at 5 pm.. we talked for a few minutes. I sure i was able to make him happy, and a repeat customer. Thanks for everyones responses.. :thumbup:


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

Sequoiha said:


> In case anyone is interested, Mr. Johnms picked his boat this afternoon right at 5 pm.. we talked for a few minutes. I sure i was able to make him happy, and a repeat customer. Thanks for everyones responses.. :thumbup:


You are right Kenny....2 sides to every story...if the op posted the whole situation then I wouldnt have second guessed anyone....keep up the good work mr Mann!


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## SHO-NUFF (May 30, 2011)

Kenny,
You and TMS are top notch PROFESSIONAL marine techs, as are a few others on this forum, that offer thousands of dollars worth of free advice to us all. Thanks!
Everyone that owns a boat wanted to be on the water a week before they ever brought it in the shop, and if they ever dealt with a sub-par shop, it makes them leery. 
Just like any other business out there, one bad one, gives all of them a bad reputation. 

Years ago when I was in the auto repair business, I had a Doctor friend of mine, a Cardiologist, ask me why I charged so much to fix his car. I asked him why he charged so much to do heart surgery. His answer was it"s complicated.

I told him fixing cars was way more complicated, and he looked puzzled. I explained once he learned what he was doing, things never changed. Each time he opened a chest, all the parts [heart, lungs, liver]etc. were the same.

The human body does not come out with a new model each year, that requires new tools, diagnostic equipment and training to properly troubleshoot and repair.
I then opened the hoods of 4 or 5 cars and asked him to just find the Damn oil dipstick in each of them, more less try and repair them! 
If I didn't fix a customers car right the first time, they brought it back raising Hell and bad-mouthing me. If he screwed up, his customers just died! 
He never asked me again about repair costs....


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## oldflathead (Oct 3, 2007)

*Practice vs Fix*



SHO-NUFF said:


> Kenny,
> ....
> Years ago when I was in the auto repair business, I had a Doctor friend of mine, a Cardiologist, ask me why I charged so much to fix his car. I asked him why he charged so much to do heart surgery. His answer was it"s complicated.
> 
> ...


SHO-NUFF, 
You have it right! Doctors and Lawyers PRACTICE. Qualified mechanics FIX stuff. 
December 2007 when the *&&%#! docs at SBRMC in Foley failed to review the daily blood work on the antibiotic gentamicin they were giving me, I almost died. I did stop breathing, heart stopped and my kidneys failed, but apparently God had something else for me to do, so I am still here.
I tried to draw an analogy with them, like if I were changing the engine in your boat and dropped it through the hull, sinking the boat, who is responsible? No question - I AM! They would never admit they screwed up and because I was 69 years old at the time, no lawyer would seek compensation for me, because they would not get enough $$$,, as it is based on your loss of future earnings. Call or drop by and visit and I will answer questions and name names.

Last year I had to have a large kidney stone removed. I went to Sacred Heart for a lithotripsy, where they zap the stone with some magical device. It did not work the first time, but they charged me $6,000 for the hospital and $3000 for the Doc. When he said it did not work and I would have to go back, I said I assume it will be free. HAHA! I said if I repaired your old flat head engine and it did not work, I would fix it for free. Nope, it cost me another $9,000, that is it cost Medicare and Blue Cross.

Enough ranting! I thank God I am alive and able to work at something I enjoy 7 days a week.







Now, that is a beauty. 50+ year old Universal Atomic Four (Old Flat Head)
It is 0630 and I must get to work - nine engines wait for me to FIX. I stopped "practicing" 40 years ago.
Tom


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## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

*Working good*

FYI-I have 3 1/2 hours of break-in finished and the engine is running the best it ever has.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Johnms said:


> FYI-I have 3 1/2 hours of break-in finished and the engine is running the best it ever has.


Good deal!:thumbsup:


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## jamesw21 (Feb 26, 2011)

Well Kenny if there are two sides two every story then tell me the other side of the story about the 21' Seacat you recently had in your shop. I have my bag of popcorn and am ready for it.


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## knowphish (Apr 26, 2010)

Here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

jamesw21 said:


> Well Kenny if there are two sides two every story then tell me the other side of the story about the 21' Seacat you recently had in your shop. I have my bag of popcorn and am ready for it.


 oh, you mean the one that Mr. customer just bought with the 98 model 115 suzki 2 strokes that we replaced the choke solenoid on, and while we had the boat he came up to get the hull numbers so he could register it with the state, he picked it up the both motors blew up.( so i was told) never allowed me to verify it. is this the one you are talking about? Lets see here, buy an old boat with old motors, take it to a shop, pick it up, claim the engines are blown up, never allow the said shop to verify they are infact blown up. then hire a lawyer, par for the course. not the first time and wont be the last..:thumbdown:


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## jamesw21 (Feb 26, 2011)

Funny how you wouldn't take blame for leaving the oil lines disconnected this causing both engines to blow. And after a lawyer is contacted you immediately turn it over to your insurance. You checked the compression on both motors when it came to your shop. Both checked out fine. Ask your insurance company for verification that the motors are blown, they have plenty of pictures. This boat came to your shop because of all the praise on this forum. I know people make mistakes all I want is for it to be made right.


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## FISHBOXFULL (May 9, 2008)

come on kenny, you know with twins both motors blow at the same time


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## jamesw21 (Feb 26, 2011)

They both blow when the oil lines are left disconnected.


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

Not the right venue for your issues, and for your information that is why i pay a lot of money every year for insurance. bottom line is you bought two old motors and want me to pay for them..


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## jamesw21 (Feb 26, 2011)

No all I wanted you to do was replace the electronic choke solenoid. And put the motor back together properly. You checked the compression and said the motors were in great condition. I have paperwork to confirm this.


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

jamesw21 said:


> No all I wanted you to do was replace the electronic choke solenoid. And put the motor back together properly. You checked the compression and said the motors were in great condition. I have paperwork to confirm this.


but do you have the paperwork showing the compression for after said motors were blown?


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

fisheye48 said:


> but do you have the paperwork showing the compression for after said motors were blown?


NO i dont, i wasnt givien the opportunity to verify. He said they were blown then took it to another shop


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

im going to bed, take this up in the morning


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## jamesw21 (Feb 26, 2011)

OK if I bring the boat to your shop to verify the motors are blown then what... What is that going to accomplish?


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

jamesw21 said:


> OK if I bring the boat to your shop to verify the motors are blown then what... What is that going to accomplish?


should be nothing since it wasnt immediately brought back with the problem....you can do alot to a motor in over a few days/weeks then claim it was the shops fault


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

Sequoiha said:


> NO i dont, i wasnt givien the opportunity to verify. He said they were blown then took it to another shop


easy kenny!!! i was asking the other guy if he had the paperwork to prove it was blown by bringing it back to you


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## jamesw21 (Feb 26, 2011)

We tried to bring it back to him and he said he could take a look at it and see what it would take to fix it and we asked who is going to be responsible for the damage and he said he wasnt. the oil lines blew off. The oil lines are not even pressurized at the point where he said they blew off. He said they were clogged. How does fresh oil clog up an oil line? Excuses... Excuses... Excuses So why deal with him anymore. Forget it I'm done. Let the courts handle it. All I wanted was the great service some other people on this forum received.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

jamesw21 said:


> We tried to bring it back to him and he said he could take a look at it and see what it would take to fix it and we asked who is going to be responsible for the damage and he said he wasnt. the oil lines blew off. The oil lines are not even pressurized at the point where he said they blew off. He said they were clogged. How does fresh oil clog up an oil line? Excuses... Excuses... Excuses So why deal with him anymore. Forget it I'm done. Let the courts handle it. All I wanted was the great service some other people on this forum received.


Ya'll really need to work this out privately. And if you have retained an attorney, this definitely is not the place for this.


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## george-dy (May 21, 2012)

Well, I am having my own boat made from fiber and it got damage from one side and looking for it's repairing. Can anyone help me as how to repair it, I'm interested to do it self repairing if it is easy. If not is there any other place that would do the repairs for me. Thanks

boat repair


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## DTFuqua (Jan 30, 2012)

*Itse asy*



george-dy said:


> Well, I am having my own boat made from fiber and it got damage from one side and looking for it's repairing. Can anyone help me as how to repair it, I'm interested to do it self repairing if it is easy. If not is there any other place that would do the repairs for me. Thanks
> 
> boat repair


 There are lots of videos on repairing fiberglass on the internet. There are DVDs available too. The thing is that most people trying to do things like this themselves don't really think the prep work is as important as it is. The prep work will not make sure you do the job right but it can make sure it will fail if not done properly.


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## BuckWild (Oct 2, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> There are lots of videos on repairing fiberglass on the internet. There are DVDs available too. The thing is that most people trying to do things like this themselves don't really think the prep work is as important as it is. The prep work will not make sure you do the job right but it can make sure it will fail if not done properly.



Hes just a spammer


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