# Fishing Tournament Participation



## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Last year there were alot of fishing tournaments that were either canceled are had a very low number of entries. 

Do you fish any saltwater tournaments? Is this year any better in the number entries in local Saltwater Tournaments? 

If you have quit fishing tournaments....Why? Fuel Cost? Economy? Tournaments need to be improved? 

I had a conversation with a buddy this morning and these topics came up. If you fish local saltwater tournaments and have an opinion about where local saltwater tournaments are going, please speak up.


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## brnbser (Oct 1, 2007)

a very good question and one I'm vested in and want to respond to at length but........ it's 9:30 and I have to be up for work at 4:30 so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.


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## Ultralite (Oct 1, 2007)

brnbser said:


> a very good question and one I'm vested in and want to respond to at length but........ it's 9:30 and I have to be up for work at 4:30 so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.


+1...i fish very few but there is one i have a vested interest in that i'll expound upon in the AM...


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

This is touchy...

We "non-tournament" fisherman can be intimidated by "tournament fishermen". There seems to be a "clique" and either you are in it or you are not.

That's the impression I get on this forum and others. It costs money to enter tourneys (yes I can afford it), but I feel I'm wasting my time entering tourneys because the tourney guys are just "so much better".

AGAIN this is a "perception", but too often "perception" becomes "reality".

I know every "tournament fisherman" is saying that this is all BS... but it's a "perception", we "non-tourney" guys have. And that's all it takes.

Sponsors, boat wraps, decals everywhere, brand new boats every year, double power-poles on a flats boat...you know the drill. 

I'd play more, but the costs are not cheap for a weekend in PCB, or FWB, or where ever, plus entry fees and the competition is steep (or so perceived).

Then there seems to be "drama" amongst tourney fishermen. I don't need that crap in my life.

Jim


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

jim t said:


> This is touchy...
> 
> We "non-tournament" fisherman can be intimidated by "tournament fishermen". There seems to be a "clique" and either you are in it or you are not.
> 
> ...


pretty accurate.


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## Buckethead (Sep 2, 2008)

Just looking at redfish tournaments, look at the IFA. High entry fee, absolutely terrible payout. At least the Xtreme series (allows live bait) has a lower entry fee and honestly a better payout. They also stay in your area for the regular season events. Hopefully a better series with better management will pop up when/if the economy ever turns around. Until then, I'm hoping to see some bass style one man tournaments if the bag limits go to two per person in NE and NW Florida. Though I disagree with the bag limit change, that would be fun and way more lucrative.


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## sniper (Oct 3, 2007)

I haven't had the opportunity to enter many tournaments but I have been to a lot of weigh-ins and I like the atmosphere. It feels exciting.


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

As you can imagine this is a topic that I think about night and day trying to figure out. While I believe that fuel costs, boat and engine prices, bad economy, oil spill, and regulations all play a role in the decline of entries I don’t believe that is our main problem. 

Not for me personally, but for many anglers *I think many of our local tournaments have lost the “fun” factor*. I’ve only been able to fish a few tournaments (Outcast Cobia Invitational, Paradise Cobia Tournament, and Outcast Inshore Slam) this year, but I’ve had a blast at each one, win or lose. 

I think Jim T’s post is very accurate! What I call the “core anglers” win the tournaments with a good prize on the line more times than not (I.E. Full Pull and Cobia Tournaments). To me the “core anglers” aren’t a clique, it’s just the guys that you see every time they get a chance to compete for a particular species.

Although even the core anglers aren’t all showing up now, which has been what has kept the events alive the past couple years. The Outcast Inshore Slam is in 6-7 year and prior to that Tommy had the Speckled Trout Tour. At least 3 of the previous 6-7 winners were not there to fish last weekend for one reason or another. Along with at least another 10-12 teams who have fished every year. From looking around I think there were 2 maybe 3 new boats there. 

As far as I know there are no “big money” or “serious” tournaments along the northern gulf that are getting the entries they need to sustain their current structure without having massive sponsorships. 


-IFA Redfish Tour (Destin -March) 39 boats based on 100
-Kingmaster 100 Biloxi (May 28, 2011) – Cancelled due to lack of participation 
-Outcast Cobia Classic – 60 boats down from 130 only a couple years ago
-Grass Flats Classic (May 2011)- Postponed due to lack of interest 
-Outcast Inshore Slam – 31 entries, less than half of what it had a few years ago
-Emerald Coast Redfish Club Pensacola (April) – Nine entries


To actually be successful I believe a tournament from Biloxi to Panama has to be diversified; core anglers, weekend guys, first timers, guides, commercial fisherman, small boats, big boats, etc. Snipers post right before mine says it all, we need excitement, which comes with more people… 

This is because we don’t’ have as large of a pool of anglers as other cities that have no trouble getting 250 boats to sign up like Tampa, Jacksonville, Lauderdale, or south Louisiana. There was a tournament in Cape Canaveral recently that had 800 entries. 

Low entries suck for everyone, there is no doubt the more people the more fun for both the directors and the field of anglers. The amount of money it takes to put on an event has drastically increased as well, the going rate on a 40x60 permitted tent with tables and chairs will blow your mind! 

The kicker through all this is that the “fun” tournaments and rodeos with smaller entry fees and tons of smaller prizes are thriving as well as they ever had. The Optimist and Spots and Slots both had more entries than ever and I suspect the Outcast Family Fishing Rodeo and Bill Hargreaves Rodeo will follow suit. 

From a tournament director stand point we have to make some changes, first of all make an attempt to figure out what the problem is, and then decide what to do about it. Things are constantly changing in life and we adapt to move on and find continued success, I guess directing fishing tournaments aren’t any different. 

The Bud Light King Tournament and Shallow Water Slam will remain the same as you’ve seen it for many years in 2011, but 2012 will be a whole new party! Would love to hear some additional ideas???


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## Ultralite (Oct 1, 2007)

well said jimt & chris...

this is the one i was referring to...

see here please:

http://www.gulfcoastfishingconnection.com/forums/forum44/thread7066.html


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## on the rocks (Oct 1, 2007)

You want a "fun" tournament with a family feel...then you need to fish the Pirates of Lost Treasure "Trolling for Booty" Tournament. Tired of high entry fees...then pay just $50 to fish my tournament. Want bigger payouts...how about $400 for 1st place, $200 for 2nd and $100 for 3rd for each of 8 different speices of fish....inshore and offshore. Want the absolute best tournament t-shirt out there... you won't get one unless you fish the Pirate's Tournament...it is free to the first 100 to sign up. If you miss a chance to be in the first 100 then you can purchase one at the tournament which will be held September 23rd, 24th and 25th at Grand Lagoon Yacht Club and yes...we do long sleeves too. This is a tournament for the entire family...not just the "professionals"...not that we wouldn't sell you a ticket to fish. 

This is the 6th year for our tournament and our proceeds go to our charity which is Secret Santa. In previous years of our tournaments we have managed to provide Christmas to almost 1000 local children and their families that would have otherwise had nothing. In addition we have also helped members of our local community with everything from medical expenses to disaster relief. 

I am on the tournament committiee again this year and this is my 6th year doing this and it is a charity I hold dear to my heart since many of the recipients are children I know through school. I have begged many of you in the past years to buy ads in our booklet, to help out with donations for auctions and raffles and other assorted things and this year is no different. I'll be around to see a few of you that have helped out in the past years and welcome help from anyone new that wants to help a great organization with an awesome event. If you are interested in helping out send me a PM...I will get you details. Business owners...this is a great way to advertise...for as little as $80 you can have an 1/8th page ad in our booklet. To those that have seen it, you know it is good. If you would like to see a past year's book let me know.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

Chris, I agree with you. What most people don't know is the underlying costs of putting on a tournament from t-shirts, food, tent rental which is shocking, insurance which is awful as well and if you hold one downtown you have to pay the city. I have tried in my cobia invitational to make it more fun by providing dock parties each day after the weigh-in. This has helped somewhat but the cost is very high. Everything we do with a tournament costs money and even more than ever now. I have always tried to provide high quality shirts and great food so everyone will get something for their entry fee and I have never made boats pay for extra meal or drink tickets in order to make it more fun for everyone and all entrants can bring a guest if they want but in doing so the costs are increased. I like you think that the family style/low cost tournaments will do fine and I hope so. I will know for sure in a few weeks I guess. I am going to return to the drawing board on several of my other tournaments and make some drastic changes for 2012. I like many other tournament coordinators will do what we need to in order to make the tournaments fun for all involved but we can't do it without the help of you the anglers. 
I am sure I speak for all of us when I say that early paid entries are crucial because we have so many upfront expenses that must be paid or planned weeks in advance. I love that question ten days before the captain's meeting, How many boats do you have? I say for instance 6. They say well that sucks. I ask have you entered? They say no but I am waiting on weather, getting a crew together, spousal permission, waiting on more boats or whatever reason. In short that sucks for all involved. Please enter these tournaments early and take advantage of the early fee discounts and you can make a difference. The more people that enter early I can promise you that more people will enter and everyone makes out. I am open to suggestions and I will be sending out surveys to those who entered my tournaments and also to those who have in the past but didn't this year. They will not require you to put a name on them so please be honest. I am glad this topic came up and I am waiting on the results. Good luck and tight lines.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

bump.


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## bayougrande (Oct 4, 2007)

these are just some ideas that may help streamline the money it takes for the tournament to happen, and for the anglers to enter. I think with what it takes to recreational fish now a days tournaments need to be even more affordable than ever. There is not only a tournament almost every weekend but sometimes 2-3 to enter. While some may be able to afford it, most cant'. I think maybe some tournamets need to be all rolled into one or two per yr. Instead of 5-6 cobia tournaments. How about 2-3. I don't know all there is to putting a tournament together so i'm not gonna act like a professional. But I'm a local and fished offshore and inshore all my life and i do know what your AVERAGE angler can and can't afford. Basically I do think some big money tournaments should stay, but go QUIALITY OVER QUANTITY less tournaments, more vessel entrys, more competitiveness, .. But small rodeos will do fine. :thumbsup:


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## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

I know a decent amount of this from an angler's perspective. I have fished tournaments in this area for 10 years on my own boat. Mostly king tournaments but a few others as well. I don't envy the job of a tournament director at all.

I absolutely love fishing the tournaments and I am often boat 004 or something because I am one of the first to sign up but the whole tournament thing is dying a slow death and it sucks.

For instance, 10 years ago the bud light was 2 days and got 300 entries. The top prize was a 19 foot Cape Horn. Someone could go out, anchor up at the sea buoy, throw out a chum slick and have a chance at catching the winner.

Now the budlight is 1 day and gets maybe 70 offshore entries and the winning fish will likely come from waters off mobile or somewhere west of that. What happened? A combination of things.

-Boat costs and fuel costs are way higher. Back then a couple of hundred dollars in fuel split up between 4 guys would get you fishing for the weekend. Now it can be in the thousands. 
-Angler skill is higher. As with any market there are barriers of entry. Going into the tournament scene, the barriers are getting higher. Besides the costs, people get tired of seeing the same boats win year after year. Don't get me wrong, they deserve to win, but it gets to the point that no one else wants to play because they very likely can't win. I'll go ahead and throw out two boat names that will be on the bud light king board when the scales close: Kwazar and Airborne. There are others that are on there a lot but both of those are on there about every year. When 20% of the field wins 80% of the time, the other 80% of the field just quits trying. Why would someone new want to come in and spend the time and money and effort to not see a reward? I still do it because it is my passion and every once in a while we luck up and catch a good fish, but if someone isn't die hard about fishing, there are plenty of other ways to spend a weekend.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

Dreamweaver I understand that point of view and I see it happen in the cobia tournaments as well but my question is how do you prevent that from happening. Is it being suggested that we prevent certain teams from fishing if they have won or placed on several occasions?


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## vincem (Jan 12, 2009)

outcast said:


> Dreamweaver I understand that point of view and I see it happen in the cobia tournaments as well but my question is how do you prevent that from happening. Is it being suggested that we prevent certain teams from fishing if they have won or placed on several occasions?


this is going to ruffle alot of feathers when i say this.....but i really dont care. why would i want to enter a tournament hosted by someone that is going to enter it themselves? how bout a tournament that doesnt allow guides/ charter captains to enter would be nice.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

outcast said:


> Dreamweaver I understand that point of view and I see it happen in the cobia tournaments as well but my question is how do you prevent that from happening. Is it being suggested that we prevent certain teams from fishing if they have won or placed on several occasions?


Tommy,

How would spreading the wealth out go over with all of the cobia tourney anglers?

First place 25%, Second 20, third 18, Fourth 15, fifth 12, Sixth 10 

When 90% goes to the same top 2 boats, that can get a little stale.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

I will look at the numbers from the past few cobia classics and see what percentage of the money went to the top 2 boats. Remember that a large portion of the money comes from the optional cash awards(calcuttas). These dividions are seperate from the entry fee money and do add up quite rapidly. I have always only allowed one winner per division in order to spread the wealth but you might have a viable point to reduce the top prize and make the 2nd- whatever place larger.


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

I am going to give my opinion on this topic. I was born into a tournament fishing family and have been fishing competitively since I was 8yrs old. I believe the first tournament I ever fished in was the Outcast king tournament many years ago.

First....Mackerel tournaments have shown a decline for obvious reasons. Fuel costs being number 1. I can remember back when I was young a 200 boat field for a mackerel tournament was normal. We love king tournaments but can't afford them anymore so we do inshore now. 

2nd...As far as inshore tournaments go...I have had many conversations about this over the last year. Why do the south florida tournaments have 200 entrys and we have 30? I really don't no? Is it because there is more money down south? I will say that having a tournament that excludes fishing guides and captains doesn't make sense because that is half your field. Also, and keep this in mind.....Just because you are a fishing guide does not make you a great tournament fisherman. Most of the good inshore tournament fisherman were tournament fisherman way before they were guides.

I can see how a tournament like the Outcast Inshore Slam would be appealing to some and not appealing to others. For me I love it! I love big money, competitive tournaments. However, with an inshore tournament like the Outcast Slam, you have to be in the top percentile of inshore fisherman in your area to compete. I can see how this would not be appealing to some people. If on most days you can't go out catch a 4 to 5lb trout, a 2 to 3lb flounder, and a 6 to 7lb redfish then there is no need to enter this tournament. And for our area those are all quality fish. 

However, I think the main reason is money! If you had an inshore slam tournament that had a 20$ entry fee and told everyone that first prize was a 19ft Blazer Bay you would have 500 people launching at shoreline park tournament morning trying to win the boat! haha It's the truth! People don't wanna spend the money unless they are 100% sure they are good enough to compete. And because of this it makes it very hard on the tournament director. I am sure that people like Outcast and Hot Spots who put on a number of the tournaments in our area tend to lose money on tournaments most of the time.


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## stout trout! (Jun 21, 2008)

i know the reason me and my crew dont really enter tournaments anymore is because the cost of gass . day in and day out the cost of gass is a little less than the purse in most tourneys . besides the inshore slam wen u can win a boat . but jeremy seems to got that on lock.!


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## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

Me and a close buddy in Daytona were kickin' the idea of creating an "official" tourney team. We fished alongside tourneys following their rules and comparing our numbers to their leader boards...

we found we would usually be on a board but not the winner often enuff to justify the cash out lay required to be competitive.

Also, we just couldn't bring ourselves to act like so many "pros" do like treating those not in the tourney as if they are a pariah and in the way of "their" fishing in "their" spots.

We never kowtow to the tourney guys and tended to rub their nose in it by being sure to show them our fish box every chance we got.

As for the locally run tourneys for local anglers... I would if I could but boat, gear, cash and such are all too limited on my end. I fish for the fun but if I can't boat eatin' fish to offset food costs, I cannot justify the fun.

Brent


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## Jaw Jacker (Jul 29, 2009)

Tommy, 

I dont have the boat or time to compete in the King or Cobia tournamet, But I'll will enter the Shark tournament. Thats a tournament anybody can win.:thumbup:


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Brant Peacher said:


> I will say that having a tournament that excludes fishing guides and captains doesn't make sense because that is half your field. Also, and keep this in mind.....Just because you are a fishing guide does not make you a great tournament fisherman. Most of the good inshore tournament fisherman were tournament fisherman way before they were guides.
> 
> .


 
_*I do not completely subscribe to this. *_

_*Could it be that the reason that commercial or guides or half the field is because they are there in the first place. There are way many more people that love to fish than there are commercial fishermen or guides, and could it possibly be that due to the fact that commercial fishermen as well as guides are allowed to enter a tournament it keeps the recreational guys from entering the very same tournament. Keep in mind the number of recreational fishermen is a conservative guess of at least 100 fold the number of guides or people that make a living on the water and have a very large advantage over the guys that work off the water most of the time.*_

_*I personally really enjoy fishing against the guys that fish whenever they want too, but not everyone does and that could be a very good reason that tournament entries are lower than in past years. *_

_*Could it be a good idea to have two divsions in a tournament? A pro divison and a recreational division? If a professional angler wants to fish the tournament they must fish in the professional divison. If a recreational angler wants to fish the Professional division they simply pay the higher fee and have at it. If a Recreational angler wants to fish the tournament but does not want to fish against the guys that make a living on the water they can fish the Recreational Division and fish against other anglers that would be better suited competition. *_

_*If a tournament looses the commercial or guides but gains the available recreational fishermen that by far outnumber the guides it just makes sense the tournament would be far better funded. *_



*.*


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

Garbo, What is the determining factor for a Professional? Is it because they charter or guide or because they have won or placed in a particular tournament more often than not. Just asking.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Keep in mind it is an idea so it is very flexable. 


Professional = One that makes their sole or primary income from the activity of fishing.

Recreational = One that fishes or fishes competitively for enjoyment. 

I think there would be far less guides enter tournments in which they could only fish against other guides or professionals, but the idea produces a very large upside which is the extremely large number of recreational anglers. There is no way around the fact that really nice payouts come from a large field and that is what is so attractive, but the sad truth is if the tournament looses the recreational guys it looses a HUGE field and the few guides or professionals isn't large enough of a field to support the cost of a sizeable tournament. 

The IFA is a Great example of this. 


.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

the simple fact is, you're just fishing for 1 bite from the right fish (or 3 bites, slam tournament). if you enter, and put a little time in prefishing, you may get lucky and win!... there were quite a few boats that didn't enter the cobia tournaments this year, that normally do, and they caught some damn nice fish... some fish big enough that they would have done very well in the month long tournament.
we entered the cobia invitational this year and were the only boat in the small boat division, we were fishing against ourselves for pete's sake, 3 days of fishing, we didn't catch a grader, and we lost to ourselves! now surely if more boats had entered, someone would have caught a 45" cobia. 

what i'm trying to get at, is just because you're fishing against "professionals" doesn't mean that you won't win. things don't always go right, and sometimes things go great! save up some money, go do a little pre-fishing, and go have some fun. 


hopefully we can keep these tournaments going so our kids and grandkids can fish pensacola tournaments.

just my .02


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

John B. said:


> hopefully we can keep these tournaments going so our kids and grandkids can fish pensacola tournaments.


While I agree, I hope you don't have kids. Ever.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

JoeZ said:


> While I agree, I hope you don't have kids. Ever.


now that's funny.


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## Ozeanjager (Feb 2, 2008)

*tourneys*

i have been in the gb king mac cobia tourny for years until they changed it to just one day ,,,with nhigher entry price and lower prizes .


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## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

Just like letting Sprint cup drivers race in the nationwide and craftman truck series... I think the tourney sanctioning bodies need to take a lesson from the NBL (a BMX sactioning body)

It would be based on "move up points" Every time a rider wins his class, he gets one move up point... after so many of these they are bumped from Beginner to Novice class than on to pro class... To race again, for season points, in a "lesser" class... they must spend one year away from all NBL sanctioned points races.

I think after a set number of WINS in a fish tourney sactioning body or in the same local tourney, the angle gets bumped up a class to let the new folks with their old scows and zebco's will be able to have a good time with at least a fair chance at winning or placing on the leader board.

Brent


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Garbo and Hogdogs.......

Both of you have a good point and logically it would seem to make sense. However in my opinion professional/guide participation in tournaments is not a reason for low participation, just an excuse not to sign up.

Garbo, you are worried about loosing recreational fishermen from local tournaments. You don't have to worry anymore, there is NO recreational participation in local tournaments, hasnt been in years. 

You see I have come to a conclusion. People here don't fish tournaments. Simple as that. People fish tournaments in Galvaston, Tampa, Sarasota, Jacksonville, Key West, Boca Grande, and St. Augustine. But not in Pensacola.....

In ALL these places the tournaments are the same as ours, same entry fee, same prizes, and the same rules. You also have Guide and recreational people competing side by side. The only part of the senerio that's different.........Pensacola. 

I say this not because I am a guide and don't want to be excluded from the tournaments, pretty soon there won't be any tournaments at all anyway so it won't matter. If I thought me not entering would save tournament fishing in Pensacola I'd never pay another entry fee. But the sad truth is that there would be 23 boats instead of 24. 

I'm not saying this to come down on folks, not signing up for a tournament does not make you a bad person. I just love to fish tournaments and would love to see them contyinue in our area, it's a shame they won't be able to. 


That being said I have an offer for anyone who would be a new entry for the Budlight Inshore Tournament coming up in June. I will tell you everything I know if you sign up. I will tell you everywhere I am fishing, what baits, everything I have heard......God as my witness EVERYTHING!


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## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

A sort of similar thing already occurred when the tourney organizers established "small boat class" in those tourneys where large sportfish boats were likely.

Brent


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

hogdogs said:


> A sort of similar thing already occurred when the tourney organizers established "small boat class" in those tourneys where large sportfish boats were likely.
> 
> Brent


Once again something that is a succes in other areas and a failure here.


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## wetley49 (Sep 25, 2010)

I grew up fishing bass tournaments all over Georgia. Guides and touring "pros" were entered in every tournament I fished. I'll agree that it was a bit intimidating but if you bring a heavier bag to the scales and end up in the money you have actually one twice. The first is by getting some cash back. The second is knowing you beat a local legend, guides, pros, or whatever. You simply come away with a greater sense of pride. That's what kept me entering tournaments for years.


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree with Matt! This area sucks for tournament fishing! You go down south and you won't find recreational guys hesitant to pay an entry fee because guides are entered in the tournament. This subject would never even be brought up in other places! 

Wetley49, you make a great point. When I do anything competetive, whether it be golf, baseball, tournament fishing, or anything I want to go up against the best of the best. If I were fishing a bass tournament tomorrow I would hope Kevin Vand Dam was in the field. And then I would fish my ass off and try and beat him! If I didn't then o well! I gave it a good shot. That's just the way I think and the way I was raised.

And if I were a recreational guy I would definitely take Matt up on his offer! In fact, I will make the same offer. You sign up for the Bud Light and are a new boat then I will flat out tell you my gameplan for the Bud Light tournament. All you have to do is email me. [email protected] That way it's just you vs Me! May the best man win!


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

This is Really Odd. 

I was on the water this morning and met up with a guy on another flats boat. We were both fishing the same area and he asked did I fish the OutCast Inshore Slam. I told him "no, not this year but I have before". He fished the OutCast Slam this year, and told me that he probably would not again, due to the odds being stacked against him due to he can only fish from time to time on the weekends and there is too much competition that can be on the water much more often than he can and is more familure with current locations and patterns that will make them much more prepared than he can be. He said he felt that the odds were 80% or better that all he did was sweeten the pot for the teams that go into the tournament with much more current insight and plans than he can possibly have, and it pays off more often than not. To me, that is just plain common sense. 

Here's the idea. There are at least 100 recreational anglers to every person that makes a living fishing. If the goal is to have a large field in a tournament, by far the largest pool of anglers to draw is the recreational fishermen. Make them happy to fish a tournament and get them involved and the size of the field will be much more likely to grow instead of shrink. 

I personally like to fish against anyone and everyone. I like the idea of competition against better or more prepared anglers than me, and I do not work on the water or fish very often at all. I know an insurance agent that routinely hands it to professional anglers in redfish tournaments and has for years. I know a home builder that does the same. I know a guy that runs a restaurant that will stand against anyone in a Redfish Tournament. The problem is those people are few and very far between, and the average recreational angler does not feel the same way. I know by far more recreational that will not fish in tournaments because they don't feel they have a chance against the guys that fish all the time, and the sad truth is some of them are most likely better anglers than they would be fishing against, they just are not as prepared as they do not get on the water as often.

Look at the leader board in the OutCast Inshore Slam, it's pretty obvious. 

The idea of Professional Angers being able to compete in a seperate catagory does have merit, as well as anglers that do not have the availability of being on the water and as informed fishing in a seperate catagory makes complete sense. 

I do not run a single tournament, but I do fish in some and I would love to see the tournaments I fish be larger than smaller, and I listen to people that could fish them but don't.


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

There have been a lot of great ideas thrown out and lots of opinions that I totally agree with! The problem with it is that the "logistics just aren't there" with the current situation of sponsors or tournament entries. To separate the professional and recreational would be tough, but I'm assuming there is a way. Although the problem in my mind is that we would need two sets of prizes. I would say that I know the local fishing market as well as anyone and I don't think it would actually change anything. I have lots of friends who love fishing and could careless about a tournament, they get their enjoyment out of winding a fish in and I think that's great. Tournaments are for some people and some people they aren't! Your statements about tournaments being dominated by people who make a living one the water does not fall true when it comes to king mackerel tournaments. 

Marcus Kennedy - Kwazer - Industrial Fiber Optic Cameras
Steve McMullen - Airborne - Insurance
Todd King - KingScape -Lawn care 
Dan Abshire -RxCape - Pharmacist


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

If guides versus recreational anglers is such an issue. Could we set up a Pro-Am tournament once or twice a year with a lottery style team drawing to set up teams? This way the weekend anglers could spend a day on the water in a tournament situation with a "pro" angler, this would do two things. Show the recreational angler a little insight into tournament fishing and even the playing field a bit.

I too love tournament fishing and hope that we can find a way to build it in our area! I am a guide but I am probably one of the worst tournament anglers in history.....


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

Good idea Brad.

You have to look at both sides as well guys! Lets say we have a tournament that is more "recreational fisheremen friendly". I can 100% garantee you that most of the good fisherman and the guides in our area WILL NOT sign up for it! It's not appealing to that type of angler. We like the Outcast Inshore Slam/Bud light type tournaments. I don't disagree with a more recreational tournament but it's not appealing to me or most other competetive tournament angler in our area. The same as a four man charity scramble at Pensacola Country club is not going to be appealing to Phill Mickelson. 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see 100 boats in every tournament. It would be great for our fishing community. But trying to split up the guides and the recreational anglers is NOT the best way to go about it. They don't do it in LA, they don't do it in South Florida, they don't do it in Jacksonville, and they have GREAT turnouts in all 3 of those places. So I don't think "splitting" up the field is the way to go.

Garbo, this is for they guy you spoke with on the water about the Outcast Tournament....I am on the water 3 to 4 days a week. I charter fish. Charter fishing is wayyy different than locating fish for a tournament. In fact, it sort of gives me a disadvantage because I am either catching sheepshead, redfish, or snapper the week of a tournament when I should be trying to locate flounder, trout, ect.... I pre fished a total of 6 hours for the Outcast tournament and finished 2nd. And I found all the fish I needed in those 6 hours! I caught our 5.5lb trout in an area that I have NEVER fished before. It's not like we are on the water 20 days in a row searching for tournament fish. Us guides hardly ever get to look for tournament fish. That IMO is just an excuse.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't see where logistics are too much of a problem. There are tournaments that run all the time with a Youth or Childrens division as a seperate division. 

Entry Fees go to the divison each Angler/Team choose to fish within. Recreational Anglers have the choice of fishing the Higher Fee Pro Division or the lower fee Recreational Division, and Pro Anglers fish the Pro Division. I see some added work in seperating into two divisions, but not a true nightmare. 

As far as other Tournament areas such as Tampa, Jax and Miami it's just a much greater population. I can completely understand larger tournaments being held in these areas....They are all only many times over larger than Pensacola, as well as pull much more tourism. I don't think Pensacola Sucks at all. 

It would seem that for the long term health of fishing tournaments we would want to recruit anglers that would be new to tournament fishing, where else would tournament anglers come from? 

Regardless, there is an extremely large number of Recreational Anglers that could build a larger tournament field easier and quicker than any other group of Anglers, and With a goal of growing tournament entries, I honestly don't see another group of anglers that is available to market to that would be an option. 

I do think the Phil Mickelson comment is hilarious.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Garbo,

Looks like your trying to set something up here. Lot of beating a dead horse, You starting a redfish series soon or what?


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't think the horse is dead. It would be pretty apparent that there are many people as well as organizations that would like to see Fishing Tournaments in our area as well as see them grow. 

and, I have considered it.


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

You speak of "new" tournament anglers... All of those guys are fishing Spots n Slots, the Bill Hargreaves, the Optimist, ect....We have plenty of smaller tournaments in Pensacola where we get lots of entrys. Participation is not an issue. Why is there an issue with having larger money tournaments for more competetive anglers? You never see a post like this after the Outcast Family fishing rodeo. Those recreational anglers that you talk about are all fishing those tournaments like the Outcast Family Rodeo. 

The problem here is that we are not getting enough entrys in the big money tournaments. I truly believe the issue is money. People don't have it right now to spend.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Brant Peacher said:


> The problem here is that we are not getting enough entrys in the big money tournaments. I truly believe the issue is money. People don't have it right now to spend.


 
*No doubt a Fact, and well stated. *

*But, to have a tournament the sponsoring party must have the revenue to pay the expenses and part of that revenue comes from tournament entries. Someone that Sponsors or Runs a tournament could chime in, but I would be willing to bet that low entries in a medium to large format tournament create a loss for the Sponsoring party. How long do you think the sponsor will do that? *

*The answer is to have more entries in the tournament, thus this discussion. *


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

Brant Peacher said:


> The problem here is that we are not getting enough entrys in the big money tournaments. I truly believe the issue is money. People don't have it right now to spend.


Agree with that. IMO splitting the participant pool in this economy would not increase participation - maybe 3-4 years ago when average joes like me were better off and could afford taking a chance on a big $ tournament once in a while for the thrill of it.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

need2fish said:


> Agree with that. IMO splitting the participant pool in this economy would not increase participation - maybe 3-4 years ago when average joes like me were better off and could afford taking a chance on a big $ tournament once in a while for the thrill of it.


I agree with Need2fish and Capt. Brant. well put guys!


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Some good Conversation. 

If You fish and have or would enter a local to Pensacola Fishing Tournament of any sort, please post your thoughts. Why you don't enter, Why you quit entering, What you would like to see in a tournament, Why You will never enter a competitive fishing tournament.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

*Fishing Tournaments, To Fish or Not to Fish!*


Interesting question with as many different answers as there are people to answer it. I used to fish tournaments, why did I stop? (Not a single reason answer)


*The cost of participating verse the odds of winning, and the return on investment!* IE: 1 year I paid a $300 entry fee and felt pretty confident I could at the very least “place” in the money somewhere. I didn’t! I spent another $300+ in fuel ( *@ $2/gal*) running the waterways in search of a competitive slam and a stud red fish for the $1000 prize. I’d been catching “Money” redfish every trip for 3 weeks prior to the tournament. 1st day, I run to a nearby spot that had been *very* productive every trip, 15 minutes after I arrive, a local “Tournament Dippshit” runs right on top of me, spooks the fish and pitches 2 cajun thunders right in front of me. We exchanged pleasantries, I banged a few lures off of his boat, hit the 300 Yammy full throttle from a dead stop and left.


*Competing against guys that can and would run to Louisiana or Panama City, *Most local “recreational” fisherman can’t do that, don’t know the water, and don’t have the time to learn those areas*; unfair advantage* to those that do, no matter who they are. That’s OK for a regionally sanctioned tournament, but not a local tournament, *IMO*!

*Awakening at 3:30/4am* *to fish;* Now I know, I’ll take a hit for this, but I just don’t care to get up that early to fish; *I got up @ 4:30 Sat morning and didn’t boat a red until after 9am! (6am, *would have worked just fine!  )

*As far as recreational Fisherman vs Charter Capts* *or Seasoned Tournament fisherman*, to me the real difference is “time on the water”. With all due respect to our many Capt’s and I know many of you, it’s the “time on the water” that separates you from the average Joe that makes his living on the mainland. When I was fishing 4 or more days a week, I could slam the reds with the best of you, however, currently underfunded and having to work 7days a week with an occasional day off every 3 or 4 weeks, my production per trip is way down. Catching fish is very much the easy part, it’s the “Where and When” finding the fish part that separates the successful from the not so successful fisherman.

*Just my Dos-Centavos!*
*






*


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## swhiting (Oct 4, 2007)

http://billhargreavesfishingrodeo.com/

24 more days!

Great posts!

Let me tell you why this recreational fisherman likes the Hargreaves:

1) We can still be in church on Sunday AND participate in all the tourney activities!
2) It's a family tournament.
3) Junior & Open divisions.
4) Just about everything legal can be weighed.
5) The focus is on the children & charity (Ronald McDonald House)
6) It's FUN, which I think comes from a good location, good hosts and lots of prizes.
7) It's on Father's Day weekend. Free pass for Dad!


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## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

outcast said:


> Dreamweaver I understand that point of view and I see it happen in the cobia tournaments as well but my question is how do you prevent that from happening. Is it being suggested that we prevent certain teams from fishing if they have won or placed on several occasions?


Not at all. I lothe the very idea of punishing success. I really don't have a good suggestion on what to do though.

I play a decent amount of poker. The same participation problem exists for the larger tournaments. They just don't get the turnout. In poker, the solution to boost participation in the more expensive tournaments is to run cheap satellite tournaments where the prize for winning the satellite tournamnets is an entry into the main tournament. I don't see how this would work for fishing because of the costs associated with running a boat but I figured I would throw the idea out there in case it sparks a good idea from someone else.


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## MAXWELL (Nov 11, 2008)

It is true these captains have more time on the water but multiple times the Bud Light and the Outcast Slam have been won in the pass and another very well known dock for producing gator trout. 

As for boats running to Panama City and Louisiana I dont think that is a legit argument. I only know of one boat that has ran to PC and all they brought back was a 4lb redfish, not a fish worthy of that expense.



At the end of the day I think participation is down because of the economy.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

I have read all the posts and some of the ideas are valid. I am not sure how splitting the field will help anyone. I am not sure who would be considered professional and who would be considered amateur. I can see the protest fees coming in now, so and so won the tournament in the amateur division and he has a captain's license or maybe he took money for fuel and now he is for hire. I would like to ask you all how you would classify a boat with a paid crew. Is that boat amateur or professional if they do not take charters but just the boss and his friends. Also when it comes to cobia tournaments how would you classify boats that choose to take their vacation from their regular jobs and fish every day. Several of the boats do that and the most successfulk boat in the touirnaments this year does that as well and they are not for hire. Just asking. As you can see the gray area would be huge.


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## Airborne (Nov 27, 2007)

*Tournament Fishing*

The only reason Team Airborne competes in tournaments is
Because its FUN.

I don't know why entries are down. I can only think that $4 a gallon is not helping. The limited fish regulations are also not helping.

We like to fish, whether there is tournament or not. We usually fish 5-6 guys, so if there happens to be a tournament that weekend we will all pony up the extra cash and enter. We are going fishing anyway so why not enter.

I have no idea what it takes to run a tournament. I have a close friend who was part of a local tournament and he told me it is a lot of work. It sounds like our tournament directors are asking if we want our local tournaments to continue. If we all do then we need to pick the tournaments we want to fish and sign up. I also think they need us to sign up early and not wait till the captains meeting to sign up like I usually do.

Good luck to all


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## bayougrande (Oct 4, 2007)

I personally think some tournaments just need to be cut (maybe just for now and when the economy picks back up bring it back or not) and have less tourny's ,,,more entry's. Then you'll have more to look forward to and not as much money you have to save up. I think money is the main factor. :thumbsup: As far as spliting up the feild, DON'T.... That's what competition is all about....like tommy said. Some of the best tournament guys around arin't charter capts....


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

bayougrande said:


> I personally think some tournaments just need to be cut (maybe just for now and when the economy picks back up bring it back or not) and have less tourny's ,,,more entry's. Then you'll have more to look forward to and not as much money you have to save up. I think money is the main factor. :thumbsup: As far as spliting up the feild, DON'T.... That's what competition is all about....like tommy said. Some of the best tournament guys around arin't charter capts....


 I wonder if thats the problem? To many tournaments in an area with already low participation. If most anglers can only afford to fish one a year and there are 15 to choose from. Why not remove some tournaments and try to consolidate all the local anglers to 2 or 3 tournaments.

Participation should go up, better prizes could be offered. Sponsors could do more because they only have to do it a few times compared to a dozen a year and anglers could save up money and prepare better!!


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Brad King said:


> I wonder if thats the problem? To many tournaments in an area with already low participation. If most anglers can only afford to fish one a year and there are 15 to choose from. Why not remove some tournaments and try to consolidate all the local anglers to 2 or 3 tournaments.
> 
> Participation should go up, better prizes could be offered. Sponsors could do more because they only have to do it a few times compared to a dozen a year and anglers could save up money and prepare better!!



I compete in BBQ tournaments and two things that have helped them/us out are that a) they have been getting a lot of media exposure that attracts new competitors and b) they don't oversaturate their target market. FWIW, entry fees for KCBS comps are higher than the many of the ones I've seen for the local tournaments.

With the price of boating and fishing right now, a lot of people in this part of FL probably don't want to do 6-12 tourneys a year. This isn't Islamorada or Naples. It doesn't help when, as other people say, the same guys are always 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. JMHO.


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## MAXWELL (Nov 11, 2008)

Less tournaments!!!! Inshore there is only 2 yes 2 major inshore tournaments with a entry fee over a couple of hundred dollars. Maybe offshore tournaments have what is considered too many tournaments, but inshore having to many tournaments to chose from is not the problem.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

I forgot another reason that I no longer participate in inshore tournaments.

Yes, there are too many, especially redfish tourneys. 

I feel they put a drain on our fishing resources and a lot of un-needed pressure on the fishery. I also don't like to fish a Fish-Kill tournament. I am NOT judging anyone else that does't feel that way, or anyone that runs a tournament in that manner, it is just my personal preference.

However, after we get through a year or 2 of taking 2 reds as our daily limit you won't have to worry about it, this topic will become a mute point!


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## parrothead (Oct 1, 2007)

Which one would you cut ?? How do you decide that ?? Just curious. Also, when we have had our redfish tournament from this forum ,there is like 50 boats at the beginning. But when the weekend comes up there might only be 20.I personally believe its the price of fuel now. Just my .02 cents worth.

Scott


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## Head Kned (Mar 21, 2011)

I recently purchased a boat. I have been runing renatl boats all over the Keys and Bahamas. My crew is going to do the North Light Challenge in a few weeks and I have no idea what to expect. But I want to see how i stack up. I like being competitive. So we may embarass ourselves or we may win the darn thing. Either way we are going to have fun doing it.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Head Kned said:


> I recently purchased a boat. I have been runing renatl boats all over the Keys and Bahamas. My crew is going to do the North Light Challenge in a few weeks and I have no idea what to expect. But I want to see how i stack up. I like being competitive. So we may embarass ourselves or we may win the darn thing. Either way *we are going to have fun doing it*.


That is the most important thing.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

parrothead said:


> Which one would you cut ?? How do you decide that ?? Just curious. Also, when we have had our redfish tournament from this forum ,there is like 50 boats at the beginning. But when the weekend comes up there might only be 20.I personally believe its the price of fuel now. Just my .02 cents worth.
> 
> Scott


Hello Scott, not sure if your question is for me, or just a general question, but I'm still here so i'll share my viewpoint. 1st I am not offering a solution, I am simply making an observation and expressing an opinion.

And I agree, the $$$ is an issue, that was my 1st point in my original post. Paying a $300 (or close) entry fee and spending $300 on fuel that today could easily be $500 in fuel, for example, vs the odds of winning enough $$ to make that risk worth it, just doesn't work for me

As for having fun, I have fun everytime I go fishing, tournament or no tournament.


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## Captain DP (Oct 3, 2007)

I think "almost" everyone agrees that the economy has done the majority of the damage on tournament entries. 

My opinion is to continue the tournaments based on lower entries. If there is routinely 50-70 boats in the tournament base your pay-outs and profit on 50 boats not 100. Majority of the $ in these tournaments come from calcutta's anyway. When the $ returns than maybe the entries will to.

I fish tournaments because of the competitve atmosphere and to have fun, I take my son in rodeo's so he can experience that aswell. If your fishing tournaments for any other reason than to have fun you will be dissapointed some time or another. 

I've been in and around tournaments since I was a kid and I've seen first hand the work that goes into them. Please support these guys and their tournaments so they will be there for our children.

And for anyone that doesn't fish a Tournament because there is too much competition that's just silly!


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I agree with Dusty.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

John B. said:


> I agree with Dusty.


I do, too, but at the end of the day tournaments are a form of entertainment and if there is no market for them they will go away. Lady Gaga wouldn't be a millionaire if nobody wanted to pay a hundred bucks to see her. Money is money at the end of the day.

It seems to me that there is a real problem with part of the market here, but what do I know.


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## reelthrill (Oct 3, 2007)

Years ago I fished the SKA religiously. We had a very dominating team, (Anglers of the year, won the bud lite 3 times, Florida Game and Fish Magazine - king fishermen of the year, etc...) With that being said; there were many occasions where the novice or weekend angler caught a fish bigger than ours. Once in the bud lite tournament, we all headed to the rigs and a rookie right outside Pensacola pass won the tournament with a giant king. If you try and separate professional anglers from weekend anglers then you are going to have to have two separate sets of prizes, which is probably not feesiable. Besides, what separates a professional from a novice? We are all professionals because we are fishing for prize money. There is too much subjectivity and gray area here. Its a great feeling being the underdog and beating all the so-called pros. You cannot win if you don't fish! I've been on both ends of the spectrum -- I once fished a big bass tournament and had not pre-fished or did not even know the area. I actually won the tournament and that was a much better feeling than any of the SKA events or other large tournaments we have won. Sure there was luck involved in winning the bass tournament, but there was great satisfaction and I could not have won if I did not enter the tournament because I was scared of the competition.


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

I wish we had one more inshore tournament with a $200 - $400 entry fee late in the summer… (hint hint Garbo) Matt and I will fish the captains portion and we'll send our wives out there for the amateur division, even though they couldn’t catch pinfish with a pinfish trap!


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Captain DP said:


> I think "almost" everyone agrees that the economy has done the majority of the damage on tournament entries.
> 
> My opinion is to continue the tournaments based on lower entries. If there is routinely 50-70 boats in the tournament base your pay-outs and profit on 50 boats not 100. Majority of the $ in these tournaments come from calcutta's anyway. When the $ returns than maybe the entries will to.
> 
> ...


Well put!!! :thumbup:


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Chris Phillips said:


> I wish we had one more inshore tournament with a $200 - $400 entry fee late in the summer… (hint hint Garbo) Matt and I will fish the captains portion and we'll send our wives out there for the amateur division, even though they couldn’t catch pinfish with a pinfish trap!


that's a true fact.


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## jimmyjams4110 (Oct 20, 2007)

Fun read. 

How about making a fun yet challenging fishing race? Throw out big fish wins bs, it would be all about speed! 

For example: 
Mission 1, catch a legal redfish, report back to base, slam 1 beer on stage.

Mission 2, catch a legal speckled trout, report back to base, slam 2 beers on stage.

Mission 3, catch a legal flounder, report back to base, and slam 3 beers on stage as the crowd routes you on!

Say the base is Flounders. 2 Person Team format with one designated driver, and one designated drinker! First team to finish all the missions wins! What do you think? Maybe make it coed, with the women being the drinkers?


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## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

If your fishing tournaments for any other reason than to have fun you will be dissapointed some time or another. 

Could not have said it better myself! Good Job:thumbup1:


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

I am interested to see the turn out for my next two tournaments because the Red Snapper early entry fee is $100 per boat and the Family Rodeo is $20 per person and kids 12 and under are free. All prizes are guaranteed. These are definitely affordable and if they go well it will give us all insight into what the future tournaments need to be based on.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

outcast said:


> I am interested to see the turn out for my next two tournaments because the Red Snapper early entry fee is $100 per boat and the Family Rodeo is $20 per person and kids 12 and under are free. All prizes are guaranteed. These are definitely affordable and if they go well it will give us all insight into what the future tournaments need to be based on.



Can you pm me details about the snapper tournament? TIA

I hope it works out well for you this year.


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## on the rocks (Oct 1, 2007)

Chris Phillips said:


> I wish we had one more inshore tournament with a $200 - $400 entry fee late in the summer… (hint hint Garbo) Matt and I will fish the captains portion and we'll send our wives out there for the amateur division, even though they couldn’t catch pinfish with a pinfish trap!


Then why don't the both of you sign up for the Pirate's "Trolling for Booty" Tournament September 23rd-25th. It's just a little past late summer. The entry fee is $50 and 1st place is $400...the inshore fish include trout, redfish and flounder...that is a potential payout of $1200 for 3 first place fish...not bad for a $50 investment. There has always been a prize for the most weight for an inshore slam and we hope to be able to do that again this year. If you guys would fish our tournament we might be able to have more folks sign up....just saying...:whistling: Put your wives in too...you said $200 to $400 range...:yes:

We are actually having a generic "snapper" division...meaning some of the monster mingos I have been seeing could be a $400 fish.


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

"MAXWELL

As for boats running to Panama City and Louisiana I dont think that is a legit argument. I only know of one boat that has ran to PC and all they brought back was a 4lb redfish, not a fish worthy of that expense."

"At the end of the day I think participation is down because of the economy.[/QUOTE]"


I completely agree! People don't really wanna spend the money. Panama City IMO is not even a better fishery than ours. It is harder to fish especialy for a slam. I also no of only one boat to run to PC in a slam tournament and not bring in anything. The whole "running a along ways" means nothing. We have plenty of good fish to catch right here at home!

Time on the water doesnt mean much either if you are not using it to scout for tournament fish. Us charter guys target spanish, sheepshead, kings, small trout, bull reds, ect....We do not get a chance to locate quality tournament fish very often. As I stated earlier, I pre fished a total of 6 hours for the Outcast slam and finished 2nd. I caught my trout and flounder in places I have never fished before. So time on the water and running a long way is not a legit arguement.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

on the rocks said:


> Then why don't the both of you sign up for the Pirate's "Trolling for Booty" Tournament September 23rd-25th. It's just a little past late summer. Thje entry fee is $50 and 1st place is $400...the inshore fish include trout, redfish and flounder...that is a potential payout of $1200 for 3 first place fish...not bad for a $50 investment. There has always been a prize for the most weight for an inshore slam and we hope to be able to do that again this year. If you guys would fish our tournament we might be able to have more folks sign up....just saying...:whistling: Put your wives in too...you said $200 to $400 range...:yes:
> 
> We are actually having a generic "snapper" division...meaning some of the monster mingos I have been seeing could be a $400 fish.


 
I would love to sign up! I couldn't fish the last trolling for booty tournament but I had 4 or 5 family members that signed up and had a great time.


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## strike two (May 16, 2009)

*tournaments*

If this has already been mentioned, I apologize for repeating, but.......


What about tournaments where 100% of the entry fee is paid back in prize money? I think a lot of people are deterred by the high amount of entry fees with lower payouts. A lot of anglers feel that tournaments are making money because the entry fees are increasing and the prizes are decreasing. If people know they are fishing for 100% or even close to 100%, then they might be more inclined to fish.

Yes, you won’t know what the exact payout is, but you can post the potential prize money based on entries. For example, if we draw 50 boats in this king tournament at a $100 entry fee, then the prize money will be a 50/30/20 split. First place will receive $2,500, second $1,500, and third $1,000. Add the usual side Calcutta bets that involved, and it ends up being an affordable venture for some.

If you have multiple categories of fish, have an individual entry fee for each category with 100% payout for each.


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## J Smithers (Jun 27, 2008)

on the rocks said:


> Then why don't the both of you sign up for the Pirate's "Trolling for Booty" Tournament September 23rd-25th. It's just a little past late summer. Thje entry fee is $50 and 1st place is $400...the inshore fish include trout, redfish and flounder...that is a potential payout of $1200 for 3 first place fish...not bad for a $50 investment. There has always been a prize for the most weight for an inshore slam and we hope to be able to do that again this year. If you guys would fish our tournament we might be able to have more folks sign up....just saying...:whistling: Put your wives in too...you said $200 to $400 range...:yes:
> 
> We are actually having a generic "snapper" division...meaning some of the monster mingos I have been seeing could be a $400 fish.


Heck, for a $50 entry fee, I will fish this tournament if it doesn't conflict with one of my bass tournaments. I never fish any saltwater tournaments but I can stumble across a slot red and trout every now and then. I'll put up an extra $50 for a day on the water for a chance to win between $400 and $1,200


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

This is a good debate, hopefully not an argument. 

I don't buy the enconomy being the complete reason for lower and decreasing participation in local fishing tournaments. By trying to offer suggestions, ideas and possible changes to tournament formats in order to prompt more or new participants to enter tournaments is something that seems to need to be done if progress is going to be made. Think about it, if you sincerely think it is the economy only that has driven down entries, just get out of the conversation because there is nothing that will be accomplished to solve the problem by any of us if your opinion is the right one. If fixing the economy is what we have to do to get more entries into fishing tournaments alot of tournament sponsors should just give it up for a while, because it is gonna be a while. 

If fixing the economy is not the complete reason, some good ideas are needed to encourage more people/anglers/teams to participate and that is what this thread was started for, not to just disagree with someone else, but to offer some ideas or suggestions to hopefully spur some forward progess. If all you have to offer is disagreeing with someone else, and you don't have a contribution of an idea or suggestion did you really help the cause? How does the old saying go_...."don't disagree with anyone's idea, if you do not have a better idea to suggest". _

* It is a pretty big issue. If a tournament sponsor or organizer looses money on a tournament that we all enjoy, more than likely the tournament will not be around much longer after costing more money than it creates.

* It is not just local to Pensacola it is all over the place. FLW, The Cup and other series tournaments have suffered as well. 

* It should be something that can be improved, but it most likely will require some change. Outside the box thinking, not the same old way in other words. 

* Fun is important and is a great draw for a very large and diverse group of anglers. 

* The first time most anglers fish a tournament it is very intimidating, but it is very addictive afterwards. This is important, and makes recruiting first time tournament anglers very important.

* Great Venues and Dock Activities to draw and entertain non-competing guest during the tournament helps anglers "Get Permission" to Enter.

* People like to be recognized and of course win. 

* People do things that they are comfortable with, and most often will not do things if they feel uncomfortable.

Just some thoughts that may create some ideas. If you have an idea or suggestion that may prompt growth to local fishing tournaments, please speak up.


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

After reading Robs post I went and redid some math on the Bud Light King Tournament numbers and that isn’t the case with our event, but the entries have been falling for several years now. 

We have $7,500 guaranteed, $4,980 based on 40 boats, and another $16,890 based on eighty boats. With that being said if we have a full 80 boat field we would pay out $29,340. Depending on when the boats signed up we would take in $30,000 - $32,000 in entry fees.

If 60 boats enter and we cut 25% off the $16,890, that would bring our total payout to $25,147.50. 60 entries x $400 = $24,000. So in that case we would be paying out more than we took in on entry fees. 

This is the case with many tournaments that are on a downhill slope! The same thing took place at the Outcast Inshore Slam, even if he would have had a full field of 60 he would have awarded more than he took in on entry fees. 

I’m personally confused on just how much effect the economy has had on northern Gulf fishing tournaments. I’m sure it plays a role, but tournaments in other markets aren’t off near the percent of those from Biloxi to Panama City. 

Give me a call when you have a minute to talk Rob, I would like discuss some of our possible changes for 2012 with you…


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## CatHunter (Dec 31, 2008)

i did a tournament last month and iam about to do another one this weekend catfish that is :thumbsup:


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## knowphish (Apr 26, 2010)

jimmyjams4110 said:


> fun read.
> 
> How about making a fun yet challenging fishing race? Throw out big fish wins bs, it would be all about speed!
> 
> ...


 
now you"re talking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Garbo said:


> This is a good debate, hopefully not an argument.
> 
> I don't buy the enconomy being the complete reason for lower and decreasing participation in local fishing tournaments.
> 
> ...


 
Garbo, I agree with your first statement. I don't think it has anything to do with the economy or the cost of the tournaments. 

However I dissagree that tournament participation is a problem everywhere. I fished the FLW redfish tour before they axed it. They capped it at 150 boats and most of the time it was full. About the lowest turnout we saw was around 140 boats in the east division. The cup capped it at 50 boats and they got 50 boats. I don't know why both tours closed their doors, maybe it wasn't as profitable as the cup organization wanted, and the FLW wanted to put the money into their fantasy bass fishing idea. 

The SKA tried it in Pensacola. Finally had sense enough to quit wasting their time a few years ago. Coarse their other divisions from the Carolinas to Key West to Galvaston are still going strong.

It didn't take the IFA as long to figure it out as it took the SKA, they canned the Pensacola tournament after a couple years. 

As much as I would love to see it stay I'll be shocked if the Outcast Slam Tournament happens next year. It will die like the Outcast King Mackerel Tournament did. 

Joe Z has what I think is a great "out of the box" idea with the Queen of Kings Ladies King tournament. He does a great job with it and it's at a great location, I think he had around 12 boats last year. 

In Dauphin Island they have one of the largest saltwater tournaments in the country, the Alabama Deep Sea Rodeo. If you want a hotel room within 50 miles of there you better get one a couple months in advance. Thousands of entrys, I'd be surprised if there were 10 people from Pensacola on the fishing forum that have ever fished it. 

And in Pensacola a couple weeks ago we had a Inshore tournament.

$400 entry fee per boat

1st place was a Blazer Bay boat, a Yamaha motor, and a trailer for the biggest slam

Each Species paid 3 places, 1st place $1200

Dinner at the captains meeting, Dinner at the weigh-in, as well as free drinks including beer at both

31 boats................


Airborn has it right. People who fish tournaments fish them for fun.....simple as that. Just so happens that People in Pensacola don't think tournaments are fun. Like I said before, it doesn't make you a bad person by any means, my point is not to blame or bash anyone or anything like that. It's just not popular here. 

I say this because you're trying to find a way to solve the participation problem........I'm afraid your just chasing your tail. This is something I'd love to be wrong about. You want to fish tournaments? Get a good trailer for your boat and then find I10 east or west, doesn't matter which way you go there are tournaments both ways. Chris and I have been doing it for years!


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## Buckethead (Sep 2, 2008)

Matt Mcleod said:


> Garbo, I agree with your first statement. I don't think it has anything to do with the economy or the cost of the tournaments.
> 
> However I dissagree that tournament participation is a problem everywhere. I fished the FLW redfish tour before they axed it. They capped it at 150 boats and most of the time it was full. About the lowest turnout we saw was around 140 boats in the east division. The cup capped it at 50 boats and they got 50 boats. I don't know why both tours closed their doors, maybe it wasn't as profitable as the cup organization wanted, and the FLW wanted to put the money into their fantasy bass fishing idea.
> 
> ...


Going with Matt's last point, there are TONS of tournaments from Jax to Titusville and further down the East Coast. There's also a few circuits going in the Tampa to Charlotte areas that are doing well. Hell, in my opinion, Jacksonville has too many tournaments, it puts so much pressure on the fish, you can hardly catch fish on artificial baits during the summer unless you know where to go and what to throw.


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

Garbo said:


> This is a good debate, hopefully not an argument.
> 
> I don't buy the enconomy being the complete reason for lower and decreasing participation in local fishing tournaments. By trying to offer suggestions, ideas and possible changes to tournament formats in order to prompt more or new participants to enter tournaments is something that seems to need to be done if progress is going to be made. Think about it, if you sincerely think it is the economy only that has driven down entries, just get out of the conversation because there is nothing that will be accomplished to solve the problem by any of us if your opinion is the right one. If fixing the economy is what we have to do to get more entries into fishing tournaments alot of tournament sponsors should just give it up for a while, because it is gonna be a while.
> 
> ...


You make some very good points. If a tournament director is losing out he will most likely not keep having the tournament. As is the cup....

However, I think Matt is right with the fact that people in Pensacola just don't seem to get excited over big tournaments. We have a group of about 30 people who really get excited over these larger tournaments and can't wait to participate in them. I really would love to know why there is only 30 or so inshore guys in this area that love to tournament fish and 5000 that don't. Because you are correct about one thing. There is wayyyy more recreational guys out there than they are good tournament fisheremen. And don't get me wrong with my previous posts. I would do anything in the community to try and better our tournaments. I tournament fish for pure enjoyment. It is strictly a hobby of mine. I would love to see lots more participation in local events.

You guys wanna here something funny.....Last year when I was making sales calls down south, there was a competetive sheepshead tournament going on. They had 250 entrys at the time I was down. hahah


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Matt, I do not disagree with anything you said in your last post. 

I would like to clarify one of your statements though. I am not trying to solve the participation problem, I am trying to engage some people that I feel are alot smarter than I am about operating a large tournaments, to talk about some ideas and possible solutions that would grow our local tournaments instead of loose them due to lack of participation. I don't feel that this thread will do any good or be successful if we just give up because "it's Pensacola" or the "Economy has us beat". I don't give up quite that easy, and do think that there is a viable solution to grow local tournaments, it just hasn't been found yet, so I would rather try to contribute to finding it. 

If the Cup or FLW were ventures that created positive revenue they would most likely still be around. I am thinking the IFA is considering it's options as well for 2012. 

Pensacola seems to be a very active place. On any pretty day, almost any part of the year the Bob Sikes is Full. My wife and I have always found it interesting the people from Pensacola are so usefull of what they have and don't seem to take it for granted. 

Quoted from Matt's Post:
*"Airborn has it right. People who fish tournaments fish them for fun.....simple as that. Just so happens that People in Pensacola don't think tournaments are fun. Like I said before, it doesn't make you a bad person by any means, my point is not to blame or bash anyone or anything like that. It's just not popular here." *
Matt, could it possibly be that it's not that the people from Pensacola don't think that tournaments are fun, but that the local tournaments actually are not fun to most people/anglers? 


Now, I have heard more than once and actually quite often that the fishermen from Pensacola are different than other places. Before anyone flames up please understand I am just repeating what others have said or I have read, so I am just repeating other opinions. 

*I live in Gulf Shores and many many times have spent a few hours on a weekend morning at the GSSP Pier only to hear how unfriendly the Pensacola Pier seems to be. I have heard the same thing to the east. I personally enjoy that pier when I am there. 

*I fish several inshore tournaments each year and last year during the IFA Championship the first day was postponed due to weather and a group of anglers went to waffle house. Several in the group were from south Florida and seemed to be very nice people. When it came up that my partner and I were from this area one in the group spoke up and stated that Pensacola was the least favorite of places he has fished and the people there were different. After he spoke up several in the group agreed, as well as one local angler. Is there a difference in and about local to Pensacola fishermen? 

* Could it be that the competitive anglers from our local area are "too competitive" and it drives people away from our events? Drama has been brought up in this thread already, but it is what it is. 

* If the Dauphin Island tournament is the largest as Matt says, and it's in the backyard, what can we learn from it? 

* If the local to Pensacola anglers simply will not participate, How would or could a Tournament focus marketing to visitors from outside our area? 


Thanks for the constructive post and thoughts Matt.


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

Maybe outcast or Hot Spots should put on a high dollar sheepshead tourny next March and see how the the turn out is. Like make it a 1 day shootout with big prizes. Sheepshead are a fish that make for a "fair" playing field. Everyone knows how to catch them. Just a thought?

FYI there is fishing drama all over. Go read the capmel forum. It's like the Pff of south Florida. The drama is way worse.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

There is no single or easy answer here. We have experienced and knowledgeable tournament directors that no matter how hard they try, cannot change the Dynamics of the current state of our local, regional and national affairs. IE:

•	The economy- You cannot dismiss the impact of this issue. There are almost as many commercial buildings locally up for lease or sale as there are occupied. Where did the businesses and their employees go? As go the businesses and their profits, there go the sponsorships.

•	I understand there may be a full slate of participants for a Regional or Statewide tournament, but when you’re only pulling participants from one locally depressed area, the fringe participants will likely choose to have their fun in a less expensive way.

•	Boat sales are down to nearly nonexistent, where is the new blood or new fisherman you would like to get to participate in the tournaments? Again, economic.

•	Fishing in general- Where are the fishermen? I am sure the PASS area has its share, but the last 3 trips I made recently in the upper bays were pretty desolate. 

•	Speaking of the upper bays, I have fished only the upperbays since the oil spill hit last year, plain and simple, over-all the fishing really has not been that good or consistent! I know there are a lot of specs around in certain areas right now, but I am referring to the big picture, not a seasonal narrow window.

Like the market decides the price of housing, whether you like it or not, the market and the demographics dictate the success or failure of various recreational ventures.

Like any other business, Tournaments need to be self supporting and return the cost of investment and at least modest profits to survive. That means either they downsize to the market or eventually disappear, with the possible exception of course of the non-profit kids oriented programs.


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## Buckethead (Sep 2, 2008)

Brant Peacher said:


> Maybe outcast or Hot Spots should put on a high dollar sheepshead tourny next March and see how the the turn out is. Like make it a 1 day shootout with big prizes. Sheepshead are a fish that make for a "fair" playing field. Everyone knows how to catch them. Just a thought?
> 
> FYI there is fishing drama all over. Go read the capmel forum. It's like the Pff of south Florida. The drama is way worse.


This would be a great idea if the draw or interest were high enough. The El Cheapo Sheepshead Tournament in Jacksonville has between 350-500 boats every year, even in this down economy. The entry fee is only $60.00, but when you get that kind of turnout, I doubt you're losing revenue. I think first prize is a CS J16 or something like that. It gets a lot of the recreational people fired up to win a boat, even though it's not a L&B, Ranger, etc., but a Carolina Skiff. It's a big time draw for kids as well, they have a separate junior division. I definitely think Hot Spots could put on a Sheepshead tournament and over the years it could grow into something huge.


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

Matt and Garbo - if it doesn't have anything to do with the economy or the cost of entry, then how else do you explain the RECENT massive decline in participation? I haven't lived here my whole life, but from what I recall from when I first moved down here and from what you all are saying - the outcast slam and the bud light were two day tourneys with really high turnouts.

Did Pensacola just all of a sudden become a miserable place for tournaments coincidentally with a major decline in the local economy?

Personally, I think Pensacola has always been "poorer" than not only our neighbors to the east and west, but also the rest of Florida. Trying to compare a blue collar city like Pensacola to all of the money that's flowing around South Florida is a little ridiculous. That being the case, the downturn in the economy has hit us even harder than most places.

What are the numbers of participants in the Sertoma and the Hargreaves and the other "affordable" tourneys?


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

We have been working on putting together a sheepshead tournament since December, but don't have all the details finalized just yet! I can tell you that it will be a weekend tourney in the heat of the season spring 2012 and the prize will be worth fishing for.


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## Captain DP (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree with Hall...

Too many comments regarding high entry, low pay-out, high fuel cost, poor investment. "Justify" when you have to justify you spending the money there isn't enough there. 

Can someone do a Poll?

Why don't you fish tournaments? 

A. I don't have the $.

B. Too much competition (I can't afford to loose the $).

ETC.

We used to see alot more boats from OB and Destin in our inshore tournaments. Is the same amount of advertising being done to obtain entries from out of the area?


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

I have been doing a month long sheepshead tournament in March for 15 years and the entry fee is very cheap and the prize money is guaranteed and we still only had 25 entries. I would do a larger scale sheepshead tournament in a heart beat if I thought I could keep from losing a lot of money but the cheap way is not even paying its own way. I have had many a sleepless night over the last couple of weeks trying to build a better mouse trap and I have some good ideas that I think will work but I can guarantee it won't include banning particular boats or anglers because they are or have been successful in previous tournaments. 100% payback sounds good but it is not feasible if you want t-shirts, food, drinks, and a place to hold a weigh-in. There are many expenses that are not seen from insurance to sales tax and tent or building rental that must be paid. I am confident that I will come up with some solutions but unfortunately there will be no way to please everyone but hopefully the majority will be happy. I have said it before and I will say it again enter the tournaments early because other people will enter if there are more boats. I will always refund entries if for some reason you must back out before the captain's meeting. I will not penalize you for entering early.


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## BamaGTR (Apr 22, 2009)

*tournament fishing*

Have enjoyed reading these posts. we fished the outcast slam for the first time this year and had a great time despite not finding fish we had pre-fished. i have been inshore fishing only a few years but was very competitive in regional bass tournaments for 10-15 years and like brant said to get better at any sport i want to compete with people who are the top of the game. we enjoyed the tournament and will get better and more competitive every year. Nothing wrong with fun fishing, what i do 90% of time, but competition in any sport makes you better. Just my .02!


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## Flatspro (Oct 3, 2007)

Well a lot of good points have been made by all. I personally do not fish any of the slam tournaments anymore due to the fact that I sold my boat. I enjoy fishing tournaments mostly to hang out with friends and talk trash etc... Its all about fun for me not saying that I don't like to win some money but in the end its all fun. I will fish the inshore tournaments again hell add a kayak division in them and see what happens. I do however fish every kayak tournament that I can. It has really been impressive with the turnouts I think that the GCKFA this month had 140-150 anglers in it at $40.00 a head and the IFA kayak tour has as many entries as the boat division and it is $75.00. Anyways I personally think that the biggest downfall was the big hit back in 2008 when the budlight went to 1 day I for one would fish the first day and drink the second and never leave the dock. Maybe one day it will all come back around.

Chad


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

Well that pretty much hits the nail on the head Tommy! Sadly, it’s impossible to have a $20 entry fee and give away $20K. 

Without a shadow of a doubt the economy has played a role in the decline, I think it would be foolish to believe it hasn’t. Although I think a 10-15% loss is all we can blame on the economy, so there is more to it for sure. I know several anglers who have plenty of money to fish, fished in years past, and just aren’t entering anymore. 

Pensacola fishing tournaments began losing their speed longer ago than just 2-3 years when the economy took the hardest fall. In the mid 2000’s local tournaments were getting “enough” entries to call them a success, but still nothing crazy! 

As I have in my past post I’m going with the fact that local anglers just aren’t interested in the tournaments like they once were, they aren’t finding what is being put on fun! It’s simple; we have to find a format that is attractive to everyone. Our core group of inshore and king mackerel fisherman just isn’t large enough anymore. I’m looking well beyond the normal things we think about when putting together a fishing tournament. 

The Optimist, Hargreaves, Sertoma, PRFA, etc. are completely different events and have the support of a particular Organization. The Optimist for example has hundreds of local members, so if each one convinces a friend or family member to enter they have hundreds of entries. Many of the people you see at the Optimist you will not see at the Sertoma, its organization driven.

The Outcast Family Fishing Rodeo costs Tommy several thousand dollars to put together every year. He LOSES money, but feels that it’s important to give back to the people who support him. 

Garbo, just curious why you did not fish the Outcast Inshore Slam or the Bud Light Shallow Water Slam last year? I know money isn’t an issue and you enjoy competitive fishing.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

I agree with everything you said Chris. Like I said before we will see if it is money in just a couple of weeks with the Snapper tournament and the Family Rodeo.


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

On the subject of your average recreational angler not being able to compete with "pro's" or guides, that is not true at all. This year in the Outcast Cobia Invitational we caught a decent fish and were in second place until the last day, which it was blowing about 25 knots out of the west that day, and we got beat by a boat with no tower, outriggers and antenna's still on. We cobia fish everyday and fish all the tournaments and this was the only one this boat fished all year. I am not saying this to put them down, Good for them! I am just trying to show that just because you dont fish everyday doesnt mean you dont have a chance. Also the boat that won the outcast slam this year spent a very minimal amount of time pre fishing.


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

Chris Phillips said:


> Garbo, just curious why you did not fish the Outcast Inshore Slam or the Bud Light Shallow Water Slam last year? I know money isn’t an issue and you enjoy competitive fishing.


 
*Very Constructive and Good Information Chris. *

*I don't remember a specific reason why I couldn't fish either the OutCast Slam or the Bud Light Slam last year. I have two teenage boys that are very active in school in which Tonya and I support them in many ways which takes up alot of time. I did fish the OutCast Slam in 2009. *

*I do fish alot of tournaments and I think that last year I fished 16 or 18 Tournaments over the course of the year. I have to budget which tournaments I can fish due to I can only spend so much weekend time away from my family. But you are very right in the fact that I do love to fish them, and I would fish them all if I could. *

*As for the impact of the Economy, it without a doubt has had an impact on the amount of participation in Tournaments, but I don't think it is the only reason for decline. I also think that adjustments can be made to overcome some of the Economy's impact on participation. *

*I truly believe there are answers and solutions that would change the direction of our local tournaments, and I also believe there are alot of very intelligent people like Chris and Tommy that have the knowledge and ability to solve the issues that would create forward progress, and if we like to fish these local tournaments we should all support them as well as the other people that offer the oppertunity for us to enjoy them. *


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

How about a PFF tourney or a PFF Rodeo? We could have more than 30 entries with just the people that have participated in this thread...and it follow's Chris's thought on having an "organizational group" (albeit a somewhat disfunctional group) to back it. And not just some, hey let's meet at Ft. Mcree this weekend and kill some sharks type of deal...give it some legitimacy and see what happens.

Or how about a catch, photo, release tourney...they're pretty big down south and open seasons don't matter.

It's obvious the same old status quo isn't going to fly. That's what I like about the Spots and Slots tourney, it's something different...it just kinda snuck up on me this year and I didn't get in it.


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## Buckethead (Sep 2, 2008)

Freespool said:


> On the subject of your average recreational angler not being able to compete with "pro's" or guides, that is not true at all. This year in the Outcast Cobia Invitational we caught a decent fish and were in second place until the last day, which it was blowing about 25 knots out of the west that day, and we got beat by a boat with no tower, outriggers and antenna's still on. We cobia fish everyday and fish all the tournaments and this was the only one this boat fished all year. I am not saying this to put them down, Good for them! I am just trying to show that just because you dont fish everyday doesnt mean you dont have a chance. Also the boat that won the outcast slam this year spent a very minimal amount of time pre fishing.


I agree. I think people get scared for the wrong reasons. There is a LOT to be learned about fishing from tournaments and tournament anglers.


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## jimmyjams4110 (Oct 20, 2007)

knowphish said:


> now you"re talking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Coed Tournament, each team must have one male/one female
Not a morning tournament. Everyone shows up around 11:30am for lunch at Flounders. After lunch say 1pm, it's time to launch. To start, each woman member must slam 3 beers, once this is completed they can run down and join their male teammate which will have their boat ready and they can takeoff. The reasoning behind the 3 beers is to stagger the kickoff so everyone isn't on top of eachother, plus it would just be fun to watch. The competition is a race. The first team to catch 2 legal redfish and return back to flounders wins! Upon arrival, "diesel fuels" will flow like wine! Prizes paid out based on time. 

I'm looking to organize a FUN tournament or two, I see potential with a format based on time rather then weight, something different. I want it to be more of a hangout/party then a serious tournament. What do you think?


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## Brant Peacher (Oct 4, 2007)

I would give anything to see 125 boats strap up for the Outcast Inshore Slam or the Bud light. That would be so exciting and so good for our community! Just think of what a great event that would be to come watch. I no I am just dreaming but still.....

Anyways, I would like to see a why don't you fish tournaments poll as well?


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## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

Curtis, there are a few tournaments I fish and the one I have always felt most comfortable with is the Pirates of Lost Treasure. I say this because of the family type atmosphere and b/c of the captains meeting. I remember the first tournament the Pirates had just happened to be the first tournament that Robert and I fished together. We felt pretty lost but between Mike, Dale, Jamie, Cindy and some others, we had all questions answered and were set to go. The water that year was rough as heck so we started off in the bay and Robert caught the winning grouper that morning. Later that afternoon, he caught the second place TWT mackeral. It was a great tournament. Only problem with it (for me since final prize is Sunday night) is getting everything ready to drive back up to Selma for work on Monday morning. At the next tournament, we had a great captains meeting but I would prefer to forget everything that followed during that tourney. Damn I hate rocks.


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## Aquahollic (Sep 24, 2009)

I used to fish the H.O.T.T. (Hardcore Offshore Tournament Trail) on the Space Coast. It was awesome. The entry fee's were in the $150-200 range. The payouts were good although I don't remember what they were. I quit fishing them only because I moved. The Captains parties were fun, the weigh-ins were fun. Thats the key. Fun! Although they paid out every tournament, you earned points by fishing the different events and more points for being on the leader board with another payout at the end of the season.

I fish the Destin Rodeo when ever I can. The payout sucks (considering the number of entries) but thats because they have so many categories. The one they don't have is a slam. A Dolphin, Kingfish, Wahoo all weighed in by the same boat from one trip. I fish it because (like I said before) its fun. There are days that I wont fish in it but I'll still go down to AJ's, have a beer, and watch the fish come in. We make it a family event to watch the weigh-ins.

One Inshore tourney that used to pull a lot of entries out of Port Canaveral was "The Hunt for Reds in October". That was a "spot" tournament. It didn't matter if you had all of the Redfish patterns down and knew where they were holding. What you needed was luck. The winning fish was the one with the most "spots". As long as it was of legal size, and multi-spotted, you brought it in. If I remember right there was a 2 spot penalty for bringing in a dead fish. Catch and release was highly encouraged. 

There's my 2 cents


John


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## jhall (Oct 8, 2007)

Since I'm at work, I couldnt read every post but this is good topic. From the posts I read, everyone is comparing our town to other east coast towns. I did a quick search to make sure my assumtion was right. Has anyone ever looked to see how many people actual live in the area compared to a Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami area? There looks to be anywhere from 3 - 5 times the people in those area (I may be wrong). If you had a showing of 100 boats here, that would be close to 300-500 boat field somewhere else. I only did a quick search on the internet to find this info so I didn't spend hours looking up a ton of information. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in since this thread had some interesting coversations. 
One other thought I had was how the weather seems to play a much bigger role here than in Jax or any other intercoastal city on that side. The wind can blow 20 over there and but you still make long treks anywhere you want and fish all day long. Here is obviously different. If it blows 20, a lot of boats need to stratigically figure out where to fish because we all know what happens in our bays with high wind. A lot of small boats around here (weekend warriors) wont sign up in advance because they cant easily go where they want. Over on the east coast, you can take a surfboard with a motor and go just about anywhere. Just another reason we can't compare to that side of Florida.
With all that said, as soon as I get my inshore boat here soon, I'll be number 24 on the entry list to take Matts' place and I'll be given em hell. Since he's stepping out. 

matt's quote
" If I thought me not entering would save tournament fishing in Pensacola I'd never pay another entry fee. But the sad truth is that there would be 23 boats instead of 24."


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## strike two (May 16, 2009)

jhall said:


> One other thought I had was how the weather seems to play a much bigger role here than in Jax or any other intercoastal city on that side. The wind can blow 20 over there and but you still make long treks anywhere you want and fish all day long. Here is obviously different. If it blows 20, a lot of boats need to stratigically figure out where to fish because we all know what happens in our bays with high wind. A lot of small boats around here (weekend warriors) wont sign up in advance because they cant easily go where they want. Over on the east coast, you can take a surfboard with a motor and go just about anywhere. Just another reason we can't compare to that side of Florida.


Good point, plus for the offshore tournaments, you don't have to run but 3 miles offshore on the east coast to be in 600 foot of water. Weather definitely plays a factor because of the longer runs to deeper water, where most people want to fish. Another reason why most people don't sign up early. I'd rather pay the extra $25 or $50 to register the day before the tournament, then lose the entire entry fee because of weather concerns or logistical reasons. 

If most tournaments offered to refund your money if you couldn't fish for *any* reason, then you'd probably have more people sign up earlier, although this doesn't help the tournament promoter in calculating his/her figures.


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## Aquahollic (Sep 24, 2009)

strike two said:


> Good point, plus for the offshore tournaments, you don't have to run but 3 miles offshore on the east coast to be in 600 foot of water. Weather definitely plays a factor because of the longer runs to deeper water, where most people want to fish. Another reason why most people don't sign up early. I'd rather pay the extra $25 or $50 to register the day before the tournament, then lose the entire entry fee because of weather concerns or logistical reasons.
> 
> If most tournaments offered to refund your money if you couldn't fish for *any* reason, then you'd probably have more people sign up earlier, although this doesn't help the tournament promoter in calculating his/her figures.


Out of Canaveral the weather Buoy was 20 miles and that was ~120 feet. The western edge of the Gulf Stream was typically 30-40 miles.

I do agree with the refund thing though. Sometimes things come up. Sometimes the weather plays a huge factor. SKA=Small Kraft Advisory


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Man, there are a lot of ideas out there. Some very interesting ones - pro-am event and pro or amateur division. And then there's Jimmy's idea. :whistling:

I can speak from some experience when I say that these are things that weigh on the minds of tournament directors on a constant basis. 

There are affordable tournaments out there, there are big money tournaments out there and there are rodeos. There's something for everyone but a tiny pool of people to put them on and finance them. 

Financing is the tough part. 

Someone mentioned 100% payout. The math is out there. Plenty of tournaments offer 100% payback. But anything with a guaranteed first place prize (Outcast Inshore) or payout (Queen of Kings or the Bud Light) is putting their neck (and wallet) on the line to try to attract anglers. 

As for anything that's not 100% payback, how do you think these things get put together? Currin Graphics really doesn't like it when you pay for tournament t-shirts with beach sand and bottle caps will only get you so far trying to buy trophies.

As a tournament and seminar coordinator, director or whatever it is I do for fun these days, I can tell you that it is very tough to get sponsor dollars. I ask, Chris asks, Tommy asks and every other event out there asks George's Marine Electronics, Gulf Breeze B&T, Outcast and Hot Spots for a sponsorship. And God bless them all, they sponsor a TON of tournaments. Why? Do you think they sell one extra hook for their $1,000 contribution? Probably not. They're not really making money in the immediate future, they're simply showing support for a community in hopes the community will support them.

Honest truth is that if you like to hear or read about tournaments, want to fish them in the future or maybe slide by the weigh in and watch big dead fish get hung, you need to fish them even if you can't compete with the pros or don't have the boat to run 60 miles to fish. If you don't, these tournaments won't be around much longer.

I for one will commit to fish more tournaments this summer than I have in the past three years combined. I plan to fish the Bud Light offshore, Outcast Family Rodeo (she can finally reel it in on her own), the Outcast Mega Shark, Outcast Red Snapper and probably the Pirates - I hear it's a party Lane. I'd fish the Queen of Kings but, well, someone has to drink beer and hang dead fish.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

Very well said Joe.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

outcast said:


> Very well said Joe.



*Yes I agree, and love the dry humor that goes with it!
*
:yes:


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

JoeZ said:


> As a tournament and seminar coordinator, director or whatever it is I do for fun these days, I can tell you that it is very tough to get sponsor dollars. I ask, Chris asks, Tommy asks and every other event out there asks George's Marine Electronics, Gulf Breeze B&T, Outcast and Hot Spots for a sponsorship. And God bless them all, they sponsor a TON of tournaments. Why? Do you think they sell one extra hook for their $1,000 contribution? Probably not. They're not really making money in the immediate future, they're simply showing support for a community in hopes the community will support them.


*That is an Incredible Statement. *

*That statement alone should be enough to make any local angler not spend $1.00 more at Wal-Mart, Academy or Bass Pro Shop, and to completely support the local businesses that pay it forward. Think about it, the tournaments they support bring other dollars into our community, such as money spent at hotels, restaurants and bars, marina's and all the other businesses that benefit from a large event. *

*Joe Great Post of thoughts, thanks for taking the time and making such a great contribution. *


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## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

For what it is worth, I did my part today and signed up for the Outcast Red Snapper tournament. I've fished here for quite a while and I don't think I have ever caught one over 22lbs so my entry might be a donation but I'm in!

Oh and since the family rodeo is not billy bowlegs weekend, I should be able to fish that for the fist time this year.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Had to dig this thread up for an update. I got this info off the kingfishconnection.com


_The ADSFR is now officially the largest fishing tournament in the world. Dauphin Island had over 8" of rain this weekend but they still had 2,220 registered anglers show up at the rodeo site to "officially participate" in the rodeo (over 900 boats based on the 3,280 tickets sold). Special thanks to the Jaycees, Yamaha, Contender and the other sponsors for their continued support of the rodeo._

Over 900 boats and 3,280 anglers......wow!


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## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*adsr*

and the winning king paid a whopping 1800 dollars this year whats the point in fishign that thing.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

billin said:


> and the winning king paid a whopping 1800 dollars this year whats the point in fishign that thing.


To support an incredible, community-driven event. 

The "what's in it for me" mentality is part of the reason tournaments are on their last legs. 

Not that I don't weigh payout vs investment but some events - charity ones such as the Miller Lite Mack Attack and Inshore Slam coming up - are not about the payout. Your entry fee goes to help local charities. 

Just like me in the Bud Light and Outcast Family Rodeo, consider it a donation and be happy to fish and do your part.


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## Tide In Knots (Oct 3, 2007)

Wow did I ever miss a great discussion. So many good ideas. I really like JimmyJams ideas. Nothing sounds more fun as a spectator or participant. Beer funnels and breathalyzers on stage. There's a market for this. A lot of good on the water establishments capable of hosting such an event too.

I am so fortunate to be able to have my events (Miller Lite Mack Attack and Miller Lite Inshore Slam) co-located with the Outcast Mega Shark Tournament this year. Thank you Tommy for inviting us to do so. As Joe said, these events are fundraisers. I try to keep the entry fee and payout reasonable and comparitive to what has been done before. We make our money from the 10% tournament share of the optional categories. Without these events Outdoors Without Limits Emerald Coast Chapter would have to create new ways to raise funds. 

I think we may have too many tournaments/rodeos and us tournament directors (Tommy, Chris, Joe, myself and others) should sit down after the fall together and plan next year out. Make sure our events don't cramp other events and spread things out more maybe. I say this two weeks before Tommy and I collaborate on a three tournaments together type of weekend. There's something for everyone the first weekend of August. We'll see how it goes.

I haven't fished near as many events as I used to and I don't recreationally fish near as much either. I used to be on the water every weekend wetting a line but now I don't have the time and can't afford to run that much either. Regulations don't help the cause with stiff limits and closed seasons. It makes it hard to justify the expense.


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