# Live at the red snapper meeting



## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

Standing room only..... Will provide updates as they are made present


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

On my way. Went the wrong place


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

I did too. State preferred season. May 23 to July 12. Weekend only sept 1 to November 1st


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

feelin' wright said:


> I did too. State preferred season. May 23 to July 12. Weekend only sept 1 to November 1st


yes please!

whats the rec/for hire/commercial representation split?


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## southern yakker (Jun 25, 2012)

Was going to go tonight but my surgery that was supposed to be Friday happened today. Let us know how it goes please!


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

I believe the breakout is 

Commercial. 51%
True recreational 27
charter 22%


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

Captain Wes had the best idea of the night. He suggested we close state waters to commercial snapper boats during the state season. That would greatly reduce pressure on our spots.


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## amarcafina (Aug 24, 2008)

jspooney said:


> Captain Wes had the best idea of the night. He suggested we close state waters to commercial snapper boats during the state season. That would greatly reduce pressure on are spots.


 Charter also....


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

Overall consensus was the preferred option. there was some suggestion to shorten the May to July season and give more weekends I the spring and fall


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

amarcafina said:


> Charter also....


 No Charters are recreational. It was interesting for sure, glad I went, Not sure what I learned, but, I guess it was interesting in its own way.....


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Tried to catch up with you Jim, but you were faster than me.


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## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

Dammit. I meant to go but had to meet a contractor and I completely spaced on the meeting being tonight.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

DreamWeaver21 said:


> Dammit. I meant to go but had to meet a contractor and I completely spaced on the meeting being tonight.


It was just a meeting on Sector Separation, until some commercial fisherman with an unpronouncable last name changed that.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

I'll be at the Destin meeting tomorrow. Will post the details.


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## jcasey (Oct 12, 2007)

I was there with my wife. This was our first one we've ever attended. It was interesting. I like Wes's proposal, and I also like Tommy's proposal about the 10 day a month season for 12 months. I guess we will see what kind of state season they end up giving us. The one thing that I don't understand is how the federal season is determined. How do the feds know what is being caught past the 9 mile mark, or does that even have anything to do with it?


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

sniperpeeps said:


> I'll be at the Destin meeting tomorrow. Will post the details.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Out of the pensacola meeting noted a couple of items.
- the meeting was scheduled for 2 hours. It went for about 1.5 hours. The first 1 hour and 15.minutes was dedicated to a fwc briefing followed by numerous questions and various opinions expressed by the audience. The discussion was good but much of it related to federal fishery topics that the fwc has limited control over. 

- the last 15 minutes or so was dedicated to taking comments for or against the preferred fwc option of a 70 day snapper season in florida state waters. In order to speak specifically on record for or against or about the 70 day plan in state waters you were supposed.to fill out a comment card. By my estimation though there were approximately 100 or so people present only about 10 filled out a comment card and.spoke on record regarding the plan. In preparation for the destin meeting I would encourage more folks to fill out a comment card and speak regarding the proposed 70 day plan.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

They don't. They're basing it off of license sales. I asked Martha after the meeting if Florida has any intention of some kind of mandatory reporting system and she seemed to indicate that it's coming soon. Kinda like Alabama's. My big problem with the reef fish endorsement is it just shows people that WANT to catch reef fish, not specifically red snapper or even who's actually catching them. It shows effort and not results.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

MrFish said:


> They don't. They're basing it off of license sales. I asked Martha after the meeting if Florida has any intention of some kind of mandatory reporting system and she seemed to indicate that it's coming soon. Kinda like Alabama's. My big problem with the reef fish endorsement is it just shows people that WANT to catch reef fish, not specifically red snapper or even who's actually catching them. It shows effort and not results.


I think they plan to conduct surveys of reef fish enlargement holders to generate an effort estimation.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> I think they plan to conduct surveys of reef fish enlargement holders to generate an effort estimation.


That's their plan for now, but we were discussing more concrete results.


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## outcast (Oct 8, 2007)

*Meeting*

Thank you to all that showed up at the meeting. We had a good turnout. I agree with Joe that we needed more speakers one way or the other.


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

They never really answered my question about the snapper stamp. We have the reef fishing stamp but that covers all of the gulf including areas where their is no ARS


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

jspooney said:


> That would greatly reduce pressure on are spots.


No it wouldn't. Any commercial boat fishing state waters sucks at fishing and won't dent the herd.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

MrFish said:


> It was just a meeting on Sector Separation, until some commercial fisherman with an unpronouncable last name changed that.


This is the part where you go kick rocks.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

feelin' wright said:


> They never really answered my question about the snapper stamp. We have the reef fishing stamp but that covers all of the gulf including areas where their is no ARS



I think there has been so much kickback against the snapper stamp that they went broad with it. $5 a species and you'll get an expensive license pretty quick. But a free "reef fish" stamp and now they can narrow down their survey efforts to just the people with that endorsement and focus their questions to them.

It's a start at least.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

And, yes, you HAVE TO FILL OUT A CARD TO COUNT. 

You can ask all kinds of off topic questions but unless you actually fill out a card and speak during the comment period, you're just sitting there.

Say you love/hate plan. Tell them it's not the best but it's better than the alternatives.. Just tell them something. Officially.


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## Blake R. (Mar 17, 2009)

Joe, tell us how you really feel.


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## BigRed38 (May 5, 2009)

JoeZ said:


> This is the part where you go fuck yourself.


:beer:


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## cold beers (Oct 9, 2007)

It would have been nice for the officials that put on the meeting to be a little more informative. I asked what the card was for when I walked in, and they said fill out only if you want to stand and speak. So I think a lot of people did not fill one out because of that.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

JoeZ said:


> This is the part where you go kick rocks.


Glad to see you have a sense of humor.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

feelin' wright said:


> I believe the breakout is
> 
> Commercial. 51%
> True recreational 27
> charter 22%


Sorry, I meant what in your estimation was the percentage of the crowd that turned out. Was wondering if the rec anglers vastly outnumbered charter and commercial last night.


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

Not sure Gator as most people who spoke did not state their affiliation. There was quite a few state charter captains that were standing behind me who were in favor of the preferred method. Did not see alot of the destin or OB charter guys that I am familiar with. 

I am debating going to the destin meeting as it should be entertaining.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> Sorry, I meant what in your estimation was the percentage of the crowd that turned out. Was wondering if the rec anglers vastly outnumbered charter and commercial last night.


Rec anglers outnumbered federally permitted charter captains by a wide margin. 

Important to distinguish between a state licensed captain and one with federal permits as the federal permit holders will only be allowed to fish during the federally declared season. State licensed boats can fish the state season but only state waters so they're pulling for the recreational side. 

Many federally permitted boats are on our side as well as they see the lunacy that's happening with sector separation and want no part of it.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

gator7_5 said:


> Sorry, I meant what in your estimation was the percentage of the crowd that turned out. Was wondering if the rec anglers vastly outnumbered charter and commercial last night.


 
the turn out was 95 percent recreational fisherman and state permitted guides with the majority being in favor of the 70 day season or longer if it was an option.

In Destin they will have this to look forward too, Mr. Jarvis alludes to the fact that he is also a commercial permitted snapper fisherman when he describes his partnership with restaurants, but describes himself as a charter permit holder.


. http://www.pnj.com/story/opinion/2015/03/10/viewpoint-solution-red-snapper-dilemma/24694469/

As a federally permitted charter fisherman who has taken the plunge deeper into the hospitality industry by partnering in several Panhandle-area restaurants, I've come to embrace the sound business practices of setting budgets and staying within them.
I have also learned that, while my word as captain is the end-all law on the "Back-Down 2," in a business partnership, I have to weigh my partners' suggestions and wishes with my own, often meeting halfway for the business's best interests.
Like a successful business partnership, there is no avoiding the fact that the health of the Gulf's red snapper fishery depends upon cooperation between federal and state fisheries managers.
The National Marine Fisheries Service must set sustainable catch limits and must keep Gulf anglers within that sustainable fisheries budget. If state managers take more than that budget allows or spends at a burn rate that threatens to exceed it, federal managers must act by reducing the federal season to compensate for the state's overspending or rapid spending.
Unfortunately, the states often set their spending rates at levels that are not based on sound scientific principles.
For example, Florida, which has robust scientific-based management models for inshore species like trout and redfish, does not have a fishery-management plan for red snapper based in sound management and scientific principles.
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Research Institute contracts with the National Marine Fisheries Service to collect many of the scientific indicators that the Service uses for its stock assessments, like video surveys and longline sets. Even with this vast wealth of scientific resources at the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission's disposal, the commission continually sets red snapper seasons based upon the number of days they arbitrarily deem fair.
Worse yet, commissioners have previously tried to scientifically validate their preferred season with a single simplistic question to their director of the Fish and Wildlife Research Institute, "Mr. (Gil) McRae, will the red snapper stock be OK if we do the season we want?"
This simplistic validation places Director McRae in an awkward position, while presenting a complete departure from the commission's scientific-based management processes on trout, red drum, and other Florida species. For these important fish, the commission allows science to dictate a responsible catch limit, which then predicates the fishing season's length.
But the commission steadfastly ignores the science for red snapper.
The commission's non-science-based red snapper management and lack of partnership is unfair.
As long as Gulf states like Florida and Texas willingly continue to be bad partners with their federal counterparts, Gulf anglers who do not have red snapper in their state waters will have to stand by and watch privatized state-water fisheries devour any chance of a federal-water season.


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## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*fed. permitted boats*

they dug there own grave they can wallow around in it. The federal permitted boats cannot fish state waters they pushed for that so none permit holders will have to purchase a permit from them as they are no longer in production. Thereby creating a super inflated value to a piece of paper. Once again just plain ole greed at work.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> the turn out was 95 percent recreational fisherman and state permitted guides with the majority being in favor of the 70 day season or longer if it was an option.
> 
> In Destin they will have this to look forward too, Mr. Jarvis alludes to the fact that he is also a commercial permitted snapper fisherman when he describes his partnership with restaurants, but describes himself as a charter permit holder.
> 
> ...


Obviously this article wasn't written by Jarvis - no mispellings or the same old garbage lines that he spouts every time he opens his mouth. He wants the private recs to have fish tags but doesn't want the same for his customers - if fish tags are such a great idea, then why not utlize them across the entire recreational fishery instead of segregating fishermen out based on what type of platform they fish from? That's because it's all about the money promised to Jarvis and others by the ownership of our Public Trust Resource through Catch Shares - sustainability and accountability have NOTHING to do with it.

Somebody needs to ask Jarvis this question; "If fish tags are such a great idea, then why not institute them across the entire recreational fishery, including recreational fishermen who choose to fish aboard for-hire vessels? That would be equal management for everyone, right? 

The problem is that Jarvis and his cronies do NOT want equal management for everyone.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

You see what is stupid about all this is the Charter fleet that went against us Rec fishermen and women are now purchasing smaller boats that are not federally permitted so they too can go into State waters to rape and pillage the State Snapper.


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

lobsterman said:


> You see what is stupid about all this is the Charter fleet that went against us Rec fishermen and women are now purchasing smaller boats that are not federally permitted so they too can go into State waters to rape and pillage the State Snapper.


:notworthy: DING,DING,DING, We Have a WINNER!!!!!:thumbup:


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

lobsterman said:


> You see what is stupid about all this is the Charter fleet that went against us Rec fishermen and women are now purchasing smaller boats that are not federally permitted so they too can go into State waters to rape and pillage the State Snapper.





Redfish said:


> :notworthy: DING,DING,DING, We Have a WINNER!!!!!:thumbup:


They are also running their larger boats that are federally permitted too.


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

lobsterman said:


> They are also running their larger boats that are federally permitted too.


Well Once they put us out of Business lets see if they get anymore DISCOUNT,S:whistling:


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Destin meeting almost done. Recreational comments in favor of 70 day season far outnumber the CFH guys opposing. Even had one Fed CFH guy say he opposed AM 40 and supported the state season.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Thanks for the update. I think it's good for the cfh guys that are pro sector separation to see and hear a room full of private recreational fisherman. You wonder if they might be thinking in the back of their minds that maybe they poked a sleeping bear one to many times...


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## T-total (Jan 14, 2015)

markw4321 said:


> Thanks for the update. I think it's good for the cfh guys that are pro sector separation to see and hear a room full of private recreational fisherman. You wonder if they might be thinking in the back of their minds that maybe they poked a sleeping bear one to many times...



I Seriously doubt it.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

u guys dont get it the federal permited charter boats were forced to buy fed permits to fish more than 9 miles offshore back in the late 90s but were still allowed to fish state waters like any other boat. in 2011 all changed fed permited boats couldnt fish state waters when everyone else could. in 3 years they were down to 7 days to snapper fish. most charter guys are not against recs at all but they need to make a living. i see it from both sides as i charter fished for years and now tend to side more with the true recs. i think the best way is give us all the same days comercial get the first 10 days of every month. this would get us back to working together for the best way to manage the fishery rather than fighting


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## Blake R. (Mar 17, 2009)

No, we do get it. We get that they shouldn't get a single day more than us, and vice versa. 


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

isnt that what i just stated


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## Blake R. (Mar 17, 2009)

No. You said we get the same days, but commercial guys get the first ten days of the month. There shouldn't be separation. When snapper are open, they should be open. Hell with state waters, fed waters, rec, commercial, charter, whatever. Bottom line, as long as the bull shit "science" NOAA is using is allowed, nothing will change.


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## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*federal permits*

then ditch the permit. Why have one you get a half azzed grouper season no snapper season and a 1 pp AJ limit what is the point. The money is the point. They are looked at as something of value.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

weedline said:


> i think the best way is give us all the same days comercial get the first 10 days of every month. this would get us back to working together for the best way to manage the fishery rather than fighting


commercial snapper fisherman are not limited in this fashion anymore since 2005. Commercial snapper fisherman either own or lease pounds of snapper that allows them to fish any day of the year they want...perhaps you are living in past history in terms of your understanding of current issues.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

Blake R. said:


> No. You said we get the same days, but commercial guys get the first ten days of the month. There shouldn't be separation. When snapper are open, they should be open. Hell with state waters, fed waters, rec, commercial, charter, whatever. Bottom line, as long as the bull shit "science" NOAA is using is allowed, nothing will change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i agree but the commercial guys have the lobby and they wont go to an all summer and spring and fall weekend season best thought i have is we all get 10 days a month pick your days at the beginning of the month charter and commercial guys wont fish weekends seems like a win win but that might be to simple hey i got out of it because of all the regs but i do see their side


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## Blake R. (Mar 17, 2009)

I do too. They've got to make a living. But, it's crap that I can go pay $27/lb for a red snapper when I can't catch my own.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

markw4321 said:


> commercial snapper fisherman are not limited in this fashion anymore since 2005. Commercial snapper fisherman either own or lease pounds of snapper that allows them to fish any day of the year they want...perhaps you are living in past history in terms of your understanding of current issues.


mark my bad if im wrong last looked into it was around 2005 i never intend to post bad info if that is correct thinks for calling me out


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

No worries. It is a complicated issue...and the rules seem to change almost daily.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

T-total said:


> I Seriously doubt it.


Your probably right. Most are too short sighted.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Most of those guys are pretty reasonable and respectful of both sides. There is only 3-4 that were there that are complete a-holes.


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## 29gallk (Dec 5, 2013)

I thought the meeting was good overall but I think it the one person sitting up front that kept bringing up spawn times and breeding stock was confusing to the issue at hand.


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## FishFighter92 (Jul 10, 2012)

I wonder if the red snapper are fighting over who gets to keep the bait that comes over the side to them? Do they have sector separation in a school of snapper?


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## BigRed38 (May 5, 2009)

(Explicit language)


So I catch too many red snapper and they can't put dinner on the table... Please...


The first 30 seconds of fishing video I see more money on that deck than I make in a week.


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