# HPS question



## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Just a quick question for you guys running HPS setups...I'm about to buy 3 150w fixtures from ebay and I am curious about the wattage...the fixtures look like the ones most other guys are using but they come with 150w bulbs, will I be able to step up the wattage within these fixtures or does the lamp fixture specify what wattage output they can handle?? I think I asked that right! Basically can I put a 250w or higher bulb in a fixture that comes with 150w bulbs?!? There we go that's what I meant :thumbsup: thanks for any feedback in advance fellas!


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

The answer is no. The 150 bulbs are a smaller base then the 250's and a different ballast.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks slayerman! How do you think the 150's will do on my little J14?? I have never seen HPS in action so I can make the clear assumption that the 250's and 400's are quite a bit brighter, but I can get 3 150's for less around $200 on ebay...what are your thoughts, or anyone else with HPS have some recommendations?? Thanks again!


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

I run 4 150's on my rig along with quite a few others on here.I ordered my lights from econo-light for $45 a piece without caps. With caps they're like $65. So far it's the best setup I've had. I want 400's with remote digital ballast but that will have to wait till I get a new rig with more room.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

think I need to offer someone on here a case or 2 of beer and some fishing trips in lieu of helping me out with this stuff! What are ballast and caps referring to?? I know ballast in ship terms, but that doesn't make sense in electrical applications by the definition I know it as!! And caps...no clue there...but you do feel the 150's are enough light to start with, again this is my 1st HPS setup so I imagine the light output will dwarf my old twin lights on a 12v system :thumbup:


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

The 150's are plenty of light plus the color works netter in stained water then white lights. Caps is a capacitor and they help to lower amp draw on start up. Without the ballast you have no light.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

You'll have to make brackets for them because the factory yoke mounts aren't strong enough. If you get in rough water they will breal.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

the brackets won't be an issue, my dad works in a machine shop so I'll have some bangin little brackets made for em  lol, thanks again for the info. slayerman, hopefully I'll get my setup finished before October, going to order the lights on friday from the website you recommended!


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

A ballist is a weight. In this matter it is load that limits current. With incandescent lights, as the light heats up, the resistance increases - limiting the current to the light. With gas based lights, as the gas heats up, the resistance goes down, which would cause a runaway current draw. wiki is my friend . Wiki mentions the caps too.

e-ballists (digital ballists) are more efficient in theory, but for this use I don't think there is a payoff for the additional expense.

http://www.e-conolight.com/e-hc2h151z.html Think this is the fixture that comes with the caps. On sale, might order a couple today.

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f32/capaciter-19389/ link to thread discussing caps. Main issue here is that 150 watt light = 150 watts at the bulb after startup. If you factor in ballast inefficiency and start-up load - it is taking a lot more than 150 watts to light one of these. One poster used an amp meter and noted without caps 500 watts were needed at startup and 335 for running. With caps that went town to 320 and 200.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

Since you do not know about the Cap's......I HIGHLY suggest that you spend the money and get the lights with the cap's already in them. This is known as HPF [High power factor]

The ones without are marked as NPF [ normal power factor]

A normal power factor ballast has almost twice the line current as a high power factor ballast.

The bottom line is that you will not tax the generator as hard by using a HPF light.

I bought the NPF lights and then installed the correct caps 55uf They just fit in the light housing.

BUT......I don't even run HPS lights anymore.....I run Mh's now.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

X is right about the caps. Get them with caps if you can. But as far as mh goes I ran 400watt mh last year and was the worst for stained water I've ever used.


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

Just another oddball thought. Some boaters have gutted the fixtures and moved the ballasts and caps to a remote box. The main issue here is weight. Much of the weight of the light (10lbs for the HPF light per that link) is in the magnetic ballast and the cap. There would be a lot less stress on the light housing if 2/3's of that weight was in a box in the bottom of the hull rather than hanging from the fixture.

I have personal mixed feelings on this. On one hand I can see it as a physically superior system. On the other I have a healthy fear of electricity near water. 

I am in the process of rigging out my first flounder boat - so understand that I am just doing my best to forward my last month or so of web research. I can contribute little real world experience.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

this is the stuff I am looking for! Thanks a lot men, I will make sure to do my research on the lights as to whether or not they come with the caps pre-installed...I do have the coveted Honda EU 2000 genny ready to go so I don't think power output will be a problem, right? As far as the strain on the fixtures and brackets, etc., as I mentioned I have access to nearly every type of material to construct sturdy brackets from so I don't think I'll get too crazy on the ballast being separate and such, I am of the same feeling about mixing electricity and water :no: no bueno! Any other recommendations you guys can toss out before I start going crazy here with my credit card?!? lol, thanks again fellas, you can bet I'll post reports once I get my rig in the water to try and give back what you guys are putting in to my efforts!!!


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

so if I go with these lights (http://www.e-conolight.com/e-hc1h151z.html), which I would prefer just because the fixture is a 6x9 instead of the 9x9's, all I will need to do is track down some capacitors for the bulbs and all should be good to go correct?? I'm getting excited now, haven't stabbed a flatty since last fall when my 12v lights gave out...sad but true!


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jhamilton226 said:


> so if I go with these lights (http://www.e-conolight.com/e-hc1h151z.html), which I would prefer just because the fixture is a 6x9 instead of the 9x9's, all I will need to do is track down some capacitors for the bulbs and all should be good to go correct?? I'm getting excited now, haven't stabbed a flatty since last fall when my 12v lights gave out...sad but true!


Those are what FS and I use. Google capacitor King to get your Caps


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

well that answers my questions 100% Flounder9.75! If that is the setup you 2 men run with, and I have seen your successful trip posts, then that is what I want!!! lol, hope to see you men out there in the next couple of weeks, working opposing beaches of course  thank you all for the tips, we have a great community of guys and gals on here willing to share their hard learned knowledge, kudos!!!


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

jgc said:


> Just another oddball thought. Some boaters have gutted the fixtures and moved the ballasts and caps to a remote box. The main issue here is weight. Much of the weight of the light (10lbs for the HPF light per that link) is in the magnetic ballast and the cap. There would be a lot less stress on the light housing if 2/3's of that weight was in a box in the bottom of the hull rather than hanging from the fixture.
> 
> I have personal mixed feelings on this. On one hand I can see it as a physically superior system. On the other I have a healthy fear of electricity near water.
> 
> I am in the process of rigging out my first flounder boat - so understand that I am just doing my best to forward my last month or so of web research. I can contribute little real world experience.


I wouldn't waste my time building a seperate box for 150 watt HPS's...Just build the brackets out of 1/4 X 2in flat alum. and wrap it around the outside of the light housing.

Now when you jump to the 400 watt units and the fixture is 16 X 16 1/2in That light fixture weighs a LOT with all the guts in it.

That is why I have a remote ballast box.

This is the ballast, starter and Cap for 1 400watt unit.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

This is a bracket I had on my 150's when I uses to run those.











I was able to still use them on the 175 MH units. Part of the reason I didn't go bigger on the side lights.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Yes I have seen the post on here of your master handy work Shark! You are far more meticulous and patient than I, and have to knowledge to accompany it as well!! I agree I don't have much of a fear for the weight of the lights against the brackets...we'll probably use aluminum or stainless, just depends on what my dad can get a hold of at the shop...and they'll be very sturdy when we finish the rig out so really my only concerns were about the amount of light output being enough to see the fish and the connection issues once I get everything installed...after this discussion I think I'll be set just fine with the Honda genny and 4 150's on the bow  woot woot!!!


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

those are some good looking brackets for sure! I will probably go with something similar with a smaller base just to minimize the impact on my deck space...might try and use the bolt holes that hold the deck to the boat to keep from drilling too much if possible too...but again, the brackets really aren't a "concern" of mine because of my connections...I could probably get fricken titanium or aircraft aluminum brackets made if I felt so inclined and have some spare cash!!! lol, thanks for the tips though, much appreciated


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

Well this thread got me off the wall at least. First 4 lights are inbound now - still want to get a par 64 for trout and such (always the optimist - what else am I supposed to fish for once I limit out on flounder). 

I am thinking of doing something different with my mounting. If I can find the materials and I do it, I suspect I will get a few laughs at least. In theory lights mounted higher will have a better angle to the water and get more light to the fish. That said, it puts your lights in the way (not to mention raises your center of gravity). It seems to be recommended for shore based fishing lights, not really recommended for boat based gigging lights.

So anyway - I like the shade system on Trapper Joe's boat in Swamp people. Thinking of doing a system similar to that for summer day fishing - and pulling the tarp and hooking up the lights for use at night. High enough they will hopefully be mostly out of the way - and a good perch for the Par 64. And if it looks like its held together with spit and duct tape will be good for a few laughs as well.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

you n me both jgc! This just gave me the insight and understanding about the HPS world that I needed to start my project...good luck on your interesting rig there!! I don't watch T.V. so don't know about the Swamp People reference exactly, maybe a pic to give a better idea??  Either way it sounds different and I would like to see the result, there are some dang cool boats rigged up in some crazy ways on this forum so add yours to the mix!!! lol, good luck out there!


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

This is the best picture I could find - it does not show the tarp up. The tarp is connected to the rear U and a single horizotal rod in the front. The front rod is connected to a rope that goes to an eyelet in the vertical rod. A second rope (or 2) go from that eyelet down to the bow. That way the tarp can be tensioned without putting lateral stress on the front rod. FWIW my Alweld boat is smaller than his.










Well in all honesty, I don't weld aluminum yet - so thinking of using bamboo - and it might look a little more like this (or at least it gives the visual of why I think it will get laughs). I would be using a pair of U's for the verticles - with a pair of bamboo running from front to back - and extending past the front vertical support. I expect I will mount the lights on an aluminum L - so they can be put anywhere along the top frame (since one of the lights will be a mount for stationary fishing). In all fairness, the inspiration came from this thread http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1340582120 I figure if he can built a poling platform out of bamboo - I bet I can make a shade awning. That and I am waiting till November to do a trip to the east to pick up some boutwell poles for my gigs


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Funny I have thought of doing almost the exact same thing on my skiff!! No shade what so ever in the summer, so some PVC and a sturdy tarp if done right should make a serviceable canopy for sure! Or as you said, at least draw a couple of laughs and questions at the boat ramp


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

jgc said:


> Well this thread got me off the wall at least. First 4 lights are inbound now - still want to get a par 64 for trout and such (always the optimist - what else am I supposed to fish for once I limit out on flounder).
> 
> I am thinking of doing something different with my mounting. If I can find the materials and I do it, I suspect I will get a few laughs at least. In theory lights mounted higher will have a better angle to the water and get more light to the fish. That said, it puts your lights in the way (not to mention raises your center of gravity). It seems to be recommended for shore based fishing lights, not really recommended for boat based gigging lights.
> 
> So anyway - I like the shade system on Trapper Joe's boat in Swamp people. Thinking of doing a system similar to that for summer day fishing - and pulling the tarp and hooking up the lights for use at night. High enough they will hopefully be mostly out of the way - and a good perch for the Par 64. And if it looks like its held together with spit and duct tape will be good for a few laughs as well.


You'll loose a lot of light penetration mounting them up high.


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

Well I have had very limited luck in sourcing bamboo so far. I might be able to score some river cane with a few calls - but not even sure if that will be worth the cost benefit (I keep wanting to plant my own grove of that, but my last effort at it failed). Next best source is a day trip and is limited to 10' lengths.

PVC is looking like a more likely material - but the bamboo would be so much more entertaining. Of course eventually it will probably morph into aluminum if it works well.
---
Based on the previous poster, it might not be worth it for these lights. Intensity decreases with the square of the distance (the light spreads out as it is further from the bulb). With the Par 64 fishing lights, the distance is not being changing all that much (already projecting out away from shore to reach the water), and the shallow angle caused by a low light is causing way to much absorption before any significant depth of penetration is reached. Likewise, the Par 64 is a very narrow beam spotlight - so the extra distance does not cost nearly as much dispersion of light intensity.

The HPS lights will be bar mounted regardless - I can easily move the bar with little effort. Will be a fun, nearly costless, experiment. The awning is for shade, but think it might make a good par 64 light mount.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

on that idea slayerman, I am pretty sure I am going to mount my lights on top of my deck but there may be room to mount them underneath too...its the little J14 in my avatar picture...would I loose too much projection that route?? The obvious issue would be more exposure to the water but that little boat sprays water up on a light chop regardless...what would be your recommendations on this subject??


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

The bamboo would look slick for sure...don't know where abouts you are located but there is a bamboo guy off Old Gulf Beach Hwy in the Pensacola/Perdido area, don't know the prices but they have been there awhile...Bamboo-for-You or something like that, sad I drive by it every day and can't remember the name!! lol, and yeah I agree would definitely go with aluminum down the road if the idea works and the tarp holds up thru a few trips


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## bamafan611 (Mar 1, 2010)

J, I would mount them above deck. Easier to protect when trailering and launching. Also would help with salt spray while running.:thumbup:


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

Sorry, did not list my location. I joined this forum because it appeared to be the most active flounder gigging forum on the net - and I figured there is only so much difference in gigging them in Florida or Texas. Closest water to me is the Port Lavaca/Port O'Conner area (which is some of the best floundering on the Texas Gulf Coast).

The biggest difference that I see, is Texas has a series of barrier islands down almost all of our coast. I doubt anyone ever attempts to flounder our gulf (outside of the barrier island), but we nearly unlimited shallow bays and lakes behind them that can be productive. Because we are dealing with miles and miles of skinny flats, the flounder boat of choice in Texas is a 18-20' 70" jon boat, tunnel hull with pontoons on the back. They generally have a nice large outboard to get to the general vicinity of the fish, then a 9-13hp fan to power drift over the flats while searching for fish. They can cover a lot of flats that way. Unfortunately that rig is >30k now. 

I am trying to make a budget version with a 16x52 jon, a much smaller outboard, and a smaller fan. That said, I will not be sacrificing much on the light set up. The main thing I am giving up is a lot of fishable water. I am uncomfortable doing long open water runs with the smaller boat. Plenty of places near Port O'Conner that I can fish, but the areas south of that tend to be less protected.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

> , tunnel hull with pontoons on the back.


FYI: If it's a tunnel hull....It has to have the flotation chambers added, because the boat looses a lot of flotation with the tunnel.

Well not exactly......but the boat would float deeper in the water, so the add the chambers to make it float higher and level.

And Yes 70in bottom and 20ft would be my next one...But that will never happen.

Considering what I have in this one.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

jhamilton226 said:


> The bamboo would look slick for sure...don't know where abouts you are located but there is a bamboo guy off Old Gulf Beach Hwy in the Pensacola/Perdido area, don't know the prices but they have been there awhile...Bamboo-for-You or something like that, sad I drive by it every day and can't remember the name!! lol, and yeah I agree would definitely go with aluminum down the road if the idea works and the tarp holds up thru a few trips


The bamboo guy is off fencline rd off old gulf beach.


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## DMC (Nov 28, 2010)

X-Shark said:


> Since you do not know about the Cap's......I HIGHLY suggest that you spend the money and get the lights with the cap's already in them. This is known as HPF [High power factor]
> 
> The ones without are marked as NPF [ normal power factor]
> 
> ...


So are you saying that the HPF will draw less amps than NPS? This is what I'm trying to find out about HPS lights. Or do the caps just help restart light faster


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

The caps cut amp draw on startup.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

caps and lights are ordered! Will post more once I get them in and mounted, think I can figure up the electrical side of things...hopefully will have it in the water by the end of this month!!! Will post pics when she's finished, and any other suggestions from you seasoned HPS guys is still very much appreciated


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

> Will post more once I get them in and mounted, think I can figure up the electrical side of things..



In the 150's I added 55uf Caps...They will JUST fit and I used SUPER HD Velcro to hold them in there. There is no room for a mechanical attachment.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

hmmm...well this should be interesting  hey on the same subject, how durable are the fixtures and bulbs?? Meaning should I take out my bulbs while running or will they handle the beating of a 14ft. Carolina Skiff J model? Second, do you house your genny in anything to protect it from the salt water and other elements?? I have the Honda EU2000i for reference...Thanks a lot!


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## bamafan611 (Mar 1, 2010)

Fluid film//fluid film//Fluid film, Keep it well coated. I use an older cooler top that mine sits in to keep it a few inches off the deck. Works well.Also the foam in the cooler top helps with the vibration deadening.Don't handle the bulbs any more than necessary. Tighten them good and leave them alone. Always take a spare bulb, just in case, you never know.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Do you know where I can find spare bulbs locally? And I was thinking of putting the genny in a big Rubbermaid tub at least while I'm running between spots..going to check with a rubber supplier to get some material to put the genny on to dampen the vibration and noise...here's something I should have check about before hand but will these lights(http://www.e-conolight.com/e-hc1h151z.html) take these capacitors(http://capacitorking.com/14uf-280v-150-w-high-pressure-sodium-aerovox-4416-p-d83w2814m-mfd.html)?? Hope so cause they're in the mail already!! lol


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## bamafan611 (Mar 1, 2010)

If the tub is higher than the exhaust from the ginny the exhaust throws some high heat and will melt a hole right through the rubbermaid. I KNOW You can get spare bulbs from most electrical supply houses. May be a little higher in price than econo-light.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

1000bulbs.com has the best prices on bulbs.


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

I probably will not bother doing it, but when I was interested in drumming, I looked into isolation techniques to keep downstairs neighbors from shooting at me through the ceiling... One technique involved tennis balls. The full technique was to take 2 pieces of plywood and cut holes in them large enough to keep the balls from rolling, but too small for the balls to go through. Then you put the balls in, and connect the 2 sheets to prevent the balls from escaping. The number of balls can be adjusted based on how much weight you want to suspend. The main thing this was supposed to do is isolate the stomping on drum peddles from the floor. I had an electronic set, with a real base drum peddle - sounded like I was stomping on the floor. 

fwiw you could probably pull the same thing by trapping the balls between a container and a false floor. Likewise I have considered gettting a container for storage, and simply putting it in upside down on the boat. When I need to run, I would just remove the top. Using a ball spacer would keep the inverter elevated a little.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Haha oh yeah I thought of that Bama, I do have a basic grasp of exhaust heat and internal combustion engines and plastics  no I meant I would store it in the box while running on plane between beaches just to keep the heavy splashing off of the unit...it would sit out in the open when in use both for intake and exhaust purposes! I want my nearly $1000 generator to last more than a few seasons and I know salt water destroys basically everything it touches...The tennis balls idea sounds like a good one jgc, but I am going to check with a rubber supplier in town, I think a 1 in' thick piece of solid rubber will take care of what I want for a little less work...and thanks for the bulbs tip Slayer, I'll probably order a bunch of spares...nothing worse than blown bulbs with no replacements when you're out on the water


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

jhamilton226 said:


> Haha oh yeah I thought of that Bama, I do have a basic grasp of exhaust heat and internal combustion engines and plastics  no I meant I would store it in the box while running on plane between beaches just to keep the heavy splashing off of the unit...it would sit out in the open when in use both for intake and exhaust purposes! I want my nearly $1000 generator to last more than a few seasons and I know salt water destroys basically everything it touches...The tennis balls idea sounds like a good one jgc, but I am going to check with a rubber supplier in town, I think a 1 in' thick piece of solid rubber will take care of what I want for a little less work...and thanks for the bulbs tip Slayer, I'll probably order a bunch of spares...nothing worse than blown bulbs with no replacements when you're out on the water


Just go to Lowes and get some of those interlocking fatigue mats and glue 2 together and you have a 1" mat then use the others for other cushions


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

For a cover just get one of those tote and put over it when it needs to be covered


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (Air Force 1)

The bulbs with survive extremely well, apply a little silicon to the last few threads to act like Loc-tite. I carry 2 extra bulbs just in case but have never blow one.


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## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

Wirelessly posted (Air Force 1)



jhamilton226 said:


> hmmm...well this should be interesting  hey on the same subject, how durable are the fixtures and bulbs?? Meaning should I take out my bulbs while running or will they handle the beating of a 14ft. Carolina Skiff J model? Second, do you house your genny in anything to protect it from the salt water and other elements?? I have the Honda EU2000i for reference...Thanks a lot!


The brackets on fixtures will fail, you'll need to fab up brackets.


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## jhamilton226 (Oct 1, 2010)

Brackets are already in the works Gnwdad, thanks for the mention tho! And you answered my biggest concern as to how the bulbs will withstand the punishment of running in semi-choppy seas  I know the brackets are junk but the fixtures themselves hold up well?? Of course I am going to cover everything in some lithium grease or oil for corrosion but the glass and so forth are fairly tough I gather? And I'm also glad I saw the posts about using white paint inside the fixtures, it just looks good let alone helping with light intensity!!! I think I got everything I need to get started men, thanks a ton and I will do my best to return the favor with trip posts and water conditions, etc. once I get back out there here soon


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

Any recommendations on wire? All 4 bulbs will be pulling less than 12amps at start up - so I probably don't have to worry much about the amp side (a 16 gauge outdoor extension cord will probably work, or course heavier is better). 

What I am more worried about is using a remote ballast box. Operating voltage is not a problem, but the starter pulse is high voltage - do I need to use different wire/insulation to avoid any problems there.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

jgc said:


> Any recommendations on wire? All 4 bulbs will be pulling less than 12amps at start up - so I probably don't have to worry much about the amp side (a 16 gauge outdoor extension cord will probably work, or course heavier is better).
> 
> What I am more worried about is using a remote ballast box. Operating voltage is not a problem, but the starter pulse is high voltage - do I need to use different wire/insulation to avoid any problems there.


I run 12g wire on my lights. I would rather it be overkill then not enough.


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## Flounder9.75 (Sep 28, 2007)

flounderslayerman said:


> I run 12g wire on my lights. I would rather it be overkill then not enough.


I normaly do like FS and go heavy But since the lights that came with my boat were set up with remote ballist box and was wired with 25ft 16ga. cord and they worked fine. So when I redid my lights I went with 16ga and they are doing fine.
Now I ran 2 12ga wires to my deck and then and ran 2 16ga off each of those so I have 2 lights per plug at the genny.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

Flounder9.75 said:


> I normaly do like FS and go heavy But since the lights that came with my boat were set up with remote ballist box and was wired with 25ft 16ga. cord and they worked fine. So when I redid my lights I went with 16ga and they are doing fine.
> Now I ran 2 12ga wires to my deck and then and ran 2 16ga off each of those so I have 2 lights per plug at the genny.


Your only talking about a 3amp draw at the most, so that's fine.


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## jgc (Aug 19, 2013)

On a side note - while I seriously don't think I will run into an issue with the 150watt lights, I have read about some issues with 1000 watt PAR 64 fishing lights. There have been some reports about significant visable dimming caused by 100' 14 gauge extension cords. 

Of course the best way to cut that voltage loss is don't use a 100' cord... 100' of 14 gauge with a 10amp draw will give you a >6volt drop. Change it to 10' and your drop shrinks 90% to about .6 volts. Changing the 10' 14 to 12 gauge only changes the drop an addition .2 volts. Short wires for the win.


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