# FWC misidentifying fish?



## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

This is not to bash them at all. It's a hard job and they are good people in general. 

Let's just say--hypothetically speaking, of course--that one officer misidentified a fish and then his partner eventually corrected him. Could have resulted in a fine, or at least a warning/citation. But, if the other ("correct") officer had not been in the FWC boat....

Has this happened to anybody else? I won't name the species or the fish, but they are very confusable and there have been many threads on here about them.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

My guess is on mingos and red snapper! I have never had it happened, but I would assume that at the court date it could all be cleared up with a few detail photos and an expert witness.


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## PaulBoydenCustoms (Dec 3, 2008)

Ive always wondered this, especially with the jack species


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

My guess would be yellow mouth and scamp. Yes they do make mistakes. You have to know what you are talking about and stand firm. If something does happen make sure you get good pictures because they will confiscate the fish and you lose your fish for later identification.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

SouthAlabamaSlayer said:


> *My guess is on mingos and red snapper!* I have never had it happened, but I would assume that at the court date it could all be cleared up with a few detail photos and an expert witness.


Nope. 

Still, for normal working folks a court date, etc. would be a huge hassle and expense.

The guys--hypothetically speaking, of course--were nice enough, if this actually happened.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Happened to my buddy yesterday. FWC officer at Navy point ramp thought a huge scamp (15lber) was a gag. 

FWC officer also wasn't aware that FL state water has not gone to two triggerfish per person yet...


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## reelthrill (Oct 3, 2007)

Happened to me. They did not know the difference between an almaco jack and a greater amberjack. They thought we had too many amberjacks and were going to write us a ticket until I convinced him to get his identification book out. Afte looking at it a few minutes, he said "good job" and let us be.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

reelthrill said:


> Happened to me. They did not know the difference between an almaco jack and a greater amberjack. They thought we had too many amberjacks and were going to write us a ticket until I convinced him to get his identification book out. Afte looking at it a few minutes, he said "good job" and let us be.


We have a winner in this hypothetical story situation, etc.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

reelthrill said:


> Happened to me. They did not know the difference between an almaco jack and a greater amberjack. They thought we had too many amberjacks and were going to write us a ticket until I convinced him to get his identification book out. Afte looking at it a few minutes, he said "good job" and let us be.


That to me is just plain stupidity. I can see questioning the difference between the lesser and the greater. But almaco and greater to me is a no brainer.


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## Tyler Massey (Oct 2, 2007)

Banded rudder fish and amberjack?? 
But yeah I've seen it happen before, and also heard of many stories of the same.. Black snapper being called a cubera and things like that.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Yes, it has happened to me on a few occasions. I always ask the FWC Officers where they are from---a fair handful have been from out of state or the sticks of Central Fl and have done very little if any fishing in the Gulf. The nicer you are, usually the better the outcome as there can be a level of ignorance on both sides of the badge.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

chart won't transfer for some reason.


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## Jaw Jacker (Jul 29, 2009)

reelthrill said:


> Happened to me. They did not know the difference between an almaco jack and a greater amberjack. They thought we had too many amberjacks and were going to write us a ticket until I convinced him to get his identification book out. Afte looking at it a few minutes, he said "good job" and let us be.


Try to wright me up too, for over the limit & under size Amberjack. :001_huh:


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

Had this happen with lane and red snapper before. He eventually let us go with no issue. As long as your friendly they typically will let you go. Also it is very handy to have a fish identification app or book onboard to protect yourself.


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## reelthrill (Oct 3, 2007)

lobsterman said:


> That to me is just plain stupidity. I can see questioning the difference between the lesser and the greater. But almaco and greater to me is a no brainer.


That's exactly what I thought. Especially since there were three of them inspecting our fish!


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## daniel9829 (Jan 31, 2009)

I have a simple newby question. I have a chart that the FWC sent me to identify fish, however it leaves a lot to be desired. Any other options.


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## Dang Dang (Feb 27, 2013)

There was a recent merger with the DEP, Dept. of Ag, and FWC. The FWC has "new" law enforcement officers that weren't previously knowledgeable about theses things. They did go to the FWC academy and learn, but they are still learning if you know what I mean. It's tough on some of those fish...

I'm hate the Spanish/Immature King identification. I always get it confused and sit there for 5 minutes trying to look it up to remind myself. (Then the fish is already dead lol.)


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

daniel9829 said:


> I have a simple newby question. I have a chart that the FWC sent me to identify fish, however it leaves a lot to be desired. Any other options.


There are some fish i.d. books out there. Problem is, when you boat a fish you have to decide what to do with it, etc. When in doubt, throw it out.

If you are from Alabama or the Panhandle, there is a great book called "Fishes of Alabama." It's more of a coffee table book, not good for a boat yet still beautifully done.


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## First Cast (Oct 8, 2007)

I believe the Dataman got into it with the FWC several years ago. They caught and kept a big warsaw grouper, but the FWC was calling it a goliath which is illegal to keep. Seems like they were weighing it at Outcast when the FWC saw it. Not sure how it turned out.


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## Aquahollic (Sep 24, 2009)

Red Snapper and Unicorn or Bigfoot? All three of these are rarely sighted and no one believes you anyway.


John


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Aquahollic said:


> Red Snapper and Unicorn or Bigfoot? All three of these are rarely sighted and no one believes you anyway.
> 
> 
> John



Funny thing is...hypothetically speaking we did not hook a single red snapper. A bunch of tuna, kings, bonita, other snapper, gag, AJS, etc. etc. All hypothetical, of course.


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## deeptracks (Oct 2, 2007)

Dang Dang said:


> There was a recent merger with the DEP, Dept. of Ag, and FWC. The FWC has "new" law enforcement officers that weren't previously knowledgeable about theses things. They did go to the FWC academy and learn, but they are still learning if you know what I mean. It's tough on some of those fish...
> 
> I'm hate the Spanish/Immature King identification. I always get it confused and sit there for 5 minutes trying to look it up to remind myself. (Then the fish is already dead lol.)


you sure about that?...not saying your wrong, just not aware.


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

Dang Dang said:


> There was a recent merger with the DEP, Dept. of Ag, and FWC. The FWC has "new" law enforcement officers that weren't previously knowledgeable about theses things. They did go to the FWC academy and learn, but they are still learning if you know what I mean. It's tough on some of those fish...
> 
> I'm hate the Spanish/Immature King identification. I always get it confused and sit there for 5 minutes trying to look it up to remind myself. (Then the fish is already dead lol.)


I'll say it, this is not true, where did you get this information?


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

DLo said:


> I'll say it, this is not true, where did you get this information?


They did merge together. Go to leo affairs.com and look under florida fish and game and read the threads on when they merged.


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## Bodupp (Oct 3, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> There are some fish i.d. books out there. Problem is, when you boat a fish you have to decide what to do with it, etc. When in doubt, throw it out.
> 
> If you are from Alabama or the Panhandle, there is a great book called "Fishes of Alabama." It's more of a coffee table book, not good for a boat yet still beautifully done.


I thought I was the only person that had that book - hypothetically. I bought it at the Conservation Department in Montgomery, and gave it to my favorite fishing buddy. Unfortunately, I got it back.


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## Fishin Ski (Apr 27, 2011)

DLo said:


> I'll say it, this is not true, where did you get this information?


http://www.myfwc.com/news/news-releases/2013/january/24/consolidation/


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Bodupp said:


> I thought I was the only person that had that book - hypothetically. I bought it at the Conservation Department in Montgomery, and gave it to my favorite fishing buddy. Unfortunately, I got it back.


I think that it is a beautiful book? Why did he give it back to you?


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

I have had them not know the laws on certain fish size n bag limits. After talking nicely to the officer he said he was from the south end of the state and didn't know that species of fish was different in other parts of the state


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## BigSlick (Jun 13, 2010)

Just my personal experience. ... I've had one tell me a croaker was a black drum and that I needed to get an identification chart and study it. Another time an officer tried to tell me a black snapper was a cubera. Nobody's perfect, and as long as I dont get a ticket for false id.


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## fishknot (Apr 26, 2008)

*greater vs. lesser amberjack*

Ok i'm not going to dispute the case but i was taught sure fire way was to count the gill plates. Lesser amberjack has 23 or more and greater has 12-15.


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## almo100 (Mar 1, 2013)

lobsterman said:


> chart won't transfer for some reason.


Dang, I am pretty sure I caught a couple of those banded rudder fish and threw them back thinking they were small AJ's.

The book I had showed some pretty obvious banding. Almost like a sheepshead.

Ah well. Thanks for the chart.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

My guess is the amberjack. I have not learned the difference between a few. I just make sure they measure 30. 
Or throw them back.
They look the same to me....... The jacks?


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

almo100 said:


> Dang, I am pretty sure I caught a couple of those banded rudder fish and threw them back thinking they were small AJ's.
> 
> The book I had showed some pretty obvious banding. Almost like a sheepshead.
> 
> Ah well. Thanks for the chart.


The bright stripes are usually on juvenile fish.


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

Juvinile AJ.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> Happened to my buddy yesterday. FWC officer at Navy point ramp thought a huge scamp (15lber) was a gag.
> 
> FWC officer also wasn't aware that FL state water has not gone to two triggerfish per person yet...



Neither has the feds. the 2 fish on triggers has passed the gulf council but NMFS has not acted on it yet. The very small 200,000 pound quota will be caught up by june and we will be done for the year.


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## Bodupp (Oct 3, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> I think that it is a beautiful book? Why did he give it back to you?


It is a beautiful book. I gave it to my father, and got it back when he passed away.


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## BlueH20Fisher (Mar 20, 2008)

Had one board us, opened the box, and shouted, "they speared a bunch of red fish" to the officer on the boat...the redfish were red snappers, red grouper, gags, and shovel nose lobsters, which he called "thingys" as he heald it daintily by the tail with his fingertips...the officer driving was obviously embarrassed by his partner and told him to get back on the boat and sent us on our way.
Also fished with an ex-fwc officer...most inept person I've ever been on a boat with. Sure there are some good ones though...


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

feelin' wright said:


> They did merge together. Go to leo affairs.com and look under florida fish and game and read the threads on when they merged.


My apologies, I was mistaken. I tried my best to find anything about it with a google search with no results and never heard a word about it until this thread.


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Bodupp said:


> It is a beautiful book. I gave it to my father, and got it back when he passed away.


Sorry to hear that.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

I have yet to have a bad experience with any FWC officers around here....got stopped yesterday and he took less than 5 minutes of our time and was as friendly and professional as you could hope for. That has been my experience with them pretty much every time.


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

guys most FWC officers (not saying the majority i'm saying if you asked them their previous careers) are prior military. many of them are from all parts of the country and are just not familiar with the fish around here like those of you who grew up here fishing the gulf. this area has some of the most unique fishing in the world so unless you have experience its not gonna be so easy to study a book and learn all the limits and types of fish without getting in months or even years of experience. 

so give these guys a break. has anyone ever had FWC ticket you when they have been wrong? like was said earlier.. be nice and be respectful and show them that they have the fish mixed up and you will never have a problem

FWC i have talked to have admitted to me they don't know ALL the rules and limits on every fish/wildlife. and I always have the phone handy in case i have a question on limits to call the office up.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

sniperpeeps said:


> I have yet to have a bad experience with any FWC officers around here....got stopped yesterday and he took less than 5 minutes of our time and was as friendly and professional as you could hope for. That has been my experience with them pretty much every time.


Professional is the only way they should be. But you give someone a little bit of authority that he has never had, and all of a sudden........attitude comes out. 
There are plenty of jack holes out there patrolling our streets and water. There are few good ones that treat people any other way than they rule the world when they have that badge on. And technically they do rule the world with that badge. Until they go home. 
There is no reason for an officer of the law to have any attitude towards anyone until they find where you have broke the law. 
It doesn't always work that way... I'm sad to say. 
Plus they need to read up on what they are searching for before they let a rookie board someone's vessel.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Chapman5011 said:


> Professional is the only way they should be. But you give someone a little bit of authority that he has never had, and all of a sudden........attitude comes out.
> There are plenty of jack holes out there patrolling our streets and water. There are few good ones that treat people any other way than they rule the world when they have that badge on. And technically they do rule the world with that badge. Until they go home.
> There is no reason for an officer of the law to have any attitude towards anyone until they find where you have broke the law.
> It doesn't always work that way... I'm sad to say.
> Plus they need to read up on what they are searching for before they let a rookie board someone's vessel.


Wasn't there a poster on here a few years ago that was fishing with his 5 year old and catching kings near the pass that got ticketed for having over the limit of kings because the officer felt the 5 year old could not have landed the fish therefore he didn't count the kid as warranting his own limit. As i recall the poster stated he had indeed assisted his son in holding the rod and reeling....personally I felt that was over the top for the officer to issue a ticket to the dad.


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

Chapman5011 said:


> Professional is the only way they should be. But you give someone a little bit of authority that he has never had, and all of a sudden........attitude comes out.
> There are plenty of jack holes out there patrolling our streets and water. There are few good ones that treat people any other way than they rule the world when they have that badge on. And technically they do rule the world with that badge. Until they go home.
> There is no reason for an officer of the law to have any attitude towards anyone until they find where you have broke the law.
> It doesn't always work that way... I'm sad to say.
> Plus they need to read up on what they are searching for before they let a rookie board someone's vessel.


 
the last time FWC busted me for something I was able to talk my way out of it. a cop stopped me as well a couple months back, i admitted what i did and thanked him for doing his job.. he gave me just warning 

you gotta know how to talk to these guys. put yourself in their shoes.. if you are a dick to them then of course they are gonna site you. if you are confident and make them realize you appreciate what they do everyday then they will let you go everytime. its not about kissing their ass at all, its about simply knowing how to deal with them. 

hell i got caught going 103 and the guy let me go with just a verbal warning.. he had every right to take me to jail and charge me for reckless

be in a good mood, be talkative with them. if you did something wrong just come out and admit it instead of trying to play stupid like you are innocent.. if you were a cop and pulled someone over and they came out and said straight up they were wrong and they thanked you for doing your job and being out here it would be very difficult to write that ticket to that person. but if they were difficult and being combative then its much easier


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## BlueH20Fisher (Mar 20, 2008)

It's true some can be cool about their jobs, but they're some that take themselves way too seriously. Last year, on march 16, while prefishing a redfish tourney, a buddy and I poked out the pass on his skiff and sat on the bar to look for a ling at high tide. Long story short, fish pops up, we get it. Take it to the harbor to clean it at another buddy's boat. Give away 90% of it and take the 2 biggest loins. Drive the boat back across the bay to niceville. GW at boat launch. Didn't even occur to us that we were breaking the law until he asks if we caught anything. I told him the story, showed him pictures, apologized, and offered to take him to the carcas. He started to go through all the penalties he could get us for, and had every intent on throwing the book at us...impound boat and truck...all that. The chunks off the 50+# fish were thicker than a 33" fish. Only reason he ended up letting us go....my buddy had a badge too...a whole other subject....I just wish these guys would use common sense, and really go after people actually breaking the law...not getting people on technicalities.


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## BlueH20Fisher (Mar 20, 2008)

As far as not knowing limits and id's...If it's acceptable for them to not know, why should the common guy be held accountable?


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

BlueH20Fisher said:


> As far as not knowing limits and id's...If it's acceptable for them to not know, why should the common guy be held accountable?


Because its a money game. Your ticket pays for them to run around and try to write more tickets. It's not about saving species.... It's only about the money, and nothing else. They need to write so many tickets per shift and once they get to that number, then they can ease up and give a few warnings, making themselves look like the nice guy. :no::no:


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## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

markw4321 said:


> Wasn't there a poster on here a few years ago that was fishing with his 5 year old and catching kings near the pass that got ticketed for having over the limit of kings because the officer felt the 5 year old could not have landed the fish therefore he didn't count the kid as warranting his own limit. As i recall the poster stated he had indeed assisted his son in holding the rod and reeling....personally I felt that was over the top for the officer to issue a ticket to the dad.


I seem to remember this. 

Haven't there have been some other posters asking if kids that age count toward the limit?


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

sniperpeeps said:


> I have yet to have a bad experience with any FWC officers around here....got stopped yesterday and he took less than 5 minutes of our time and was as friendly and professional as you could hope for. That has been my experience with them pretty much every time.


 
Same here about 7 miles out coming in. No problems at all...


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

We also got stopped Thursday. 10 to 15 min, checked the fish, license and jackets and left. 
Courteous and professional.


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

BlueH20Fisher said:


> As far as not knowing limits and id's...If it's acceptable for them to not know, why should the common guy be held accountable?


nice arguement although going up in front of a judge and using that as your defense won't get you very far. 

i see the point you are making but the law doesn't work like that.. you think lawyers and even judges know every law out there? thats what law libraries are for and since laws change constantly you gotta keep updating 

if you grab your fishing pole it is your responsibility to know the limits and ID's.. ignorance is not a defense.. a very successful fishing boat captain once told me that and at the time i didn't understand what he meant until one day FWC caught me for something that i should of known better


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## BlueH20Fisher (Mar 20, 2008)

Believe me, I know. In my late teens I stood in front of a judge 3 times for spearfishing in places I shouldn't have...2 of the times it was the same officer...pretty cool dude really. When you're sitting in a court room with 50+ actual criminals, the judge just smiled an shook his head, said keep your head down...had to pay court costs.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Chapman5011 said:


> Because its a money game. Your ticket pays for them to run around and try to write more tickets. It's not about saving species.... It's only about the money, and nothing else. They need to write so many tickets per shift and once they get to that number, then they can ease up and give a few warnings, making themselves look like the nice guy. :no::no:


I'm pretty sure the FWC sustains itself on federal grants. I think the fines go to the county they occurred in? I'm not sure but I think I heard it somewhere. My point is I don't think they are looking to make money by writing tickets.


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## flex (Feb 26, 2013)

had an FWC officer look me in the eye and say they don't have quotas. not sure why he would lie to me. some of you are just paranoid.. again not a single person can say they ever got a citation for something they did that they shouldn't of got. i would say if anything FWC are too lenient.. they give warnings way too much for my liking. they need to drop the hammer more, seen way too many guys at bridges taking bull reds.. its an epidemic. hammer and make an example out of these guys and let word spread from there


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I believe the whole point of the thread is, they should know the species they are writing tickets for. I've always had good experiences with them and I get stopped almost every time I'm coming back in under the Theo Baars. There is no excuse for them to misidentify a common game fish. I would keep a copy of Vic Dunnaway's Sport Fish of the Gulf of Mexico on the boat.


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## kandv2000 (May 10, 2012)

I did the Law Enforcement thing for over 20 years. Have I ever been rude and unprofessional,,,,,, yep. I have many more people be a jerk to me than I was ever a jerk to though. Keep in mind that these guys have the same problems that you do, and you have no idea what they dealt with just before meeting you. As far as quotas I have never seen one. However If they cant find a few things to write a ticket for in a shift what are they really doing. Fear of a ticket is what causes volentary compliance. Try this the next time you are really doing nothing wrong and a LEO is a jerk, "Sorry your having a bad day". Had someone do that to me and snapped me back to reality.


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## LITECATCH (Oct 2, 2007)

I had an FWC oficer chase me down and appologize to me! We were coming in the pass this April and i saw him pulling up to a center console to check him. I was not really close but i knew my wake would rock them together pretty good so i came off of plane. I motored on by and picked back up running. He chased me all the way down to the no wake sign at the entrance of Bayou Chico to say he was sorry for making me come off of plane. I thought that was very nice of him. I just hollered "no problem man, have a good one!!"


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## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

FWC has an extremely tough job, on land is even worse during hunting season because everyone is armed. Checking that someone is following the law when they are armed is nerve racking, dangerous, and not easy I don't care what you say. I don't mind occasional bad moods because everyone has them but that is not an excuse for them either, salesman and plenty of other professions can't have bad moods with their customers or they go ut of business.

I have been asked some dumb questions by them and run into many of them that clearly have never really hunted or fished before, I really question how some do their job. I have had off the wall questions asked by them and had them mis identify game multiple times. I have also had a lot of great experiences with them including some that bent over backwards to truck game out of the woods for me when I'd of had to walk, fishing tips, etc.


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## kandv2000 (May 10, 2012)

baldona523 said:


> FWC has an extremely tough job, on land is even worse during hunting season because everyone is armed. Checking that someone is following the law when they are armed is nerve racking, dangerous, and not easy I don't care what you say. I don't mind occasional bad moods because everyone has them but that is not an excuse for them either, salesman and plenty of other professions can't have bad moods with their customers or they go ut of business.
> 
> I have been asked some dumb questions by them and run into many of them that clearly have never really hunted or fished before, I really question how some do their job. I have had off the wall questions asked by them and had them mis identify game multiple times. I have also had a lot of great experiences with them including some that bent over backwards to truck game out of the woods for me when I'd of had to walk, fishing tips, etc.


The issue with state agencys is that they move people around for special functions. Its not bad with FHP because a traffic crash is the same anywhere in the state. However, when the bring a guy up from Palm Beach to work a Hunting Opening or take a guy from here to work Mini Lobster in the Keys, there is a learning curve. If you keep your calm the issues will almost always work out. If not, thats why the courts exist.


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