# Black snapper or mangrove?



## CountryFolksCanSurvive22

Found a spot that is very reliable at producing what I think to be black snappers. I have grown up in the panhandle my entire life and never heard a local speak of catching "mangroves" only "black" snappers. Have only seen and heard fisherman refer to them as mangroves on Fl. fishing shows down in central and southern Fl. for the most part. I understand there is a difference (black: no size limit 10 per person) and (mangroves or grey 10 inches minimum to keep) so how bout it? Are there in fact mangroves in the area bc the ones I catch are black with a little tint of red? Sorry for no pics got a new phone and couldnt transfer pics to the new phone.


----------



## Reel Wins

Black snapper=Mangrove snapper


----------



## FishinFreak

The ones you are catching around here are mangroves/grey snapper. Locals call them black snapper, but they are not the "actual" black snapper.


----------



## CountryFolksCanSurvive22

Thanks! Sounds like listening to the locals can get you a big fat ticket since there isn't a size limit on blacks lol I wasn't sure bc the ones I've caught appeared to be a lot darker then the lighter grey colored ones you see on fishing shows that run up to 3 or 4 pounds.


----------



## Chris V

Gray snapper (_Lutjanus griseus) _is the common name with black snapper being more common in the northern gulf and mangrove, or even mango, being common in central and south florida. True black snapper are a deep water species more common in the carribean and central atlantic.


----------



## weedline

to be honest there is a true black snapper never seen one but what we call black snapper are 2 seperate fish 1 is the mangrove snapper they tend to live in bays out twords any pass with jetties and will also pile up on beach pier pilons off and on along with deep water bay bridges some way inland with this said they will weigh usualy a lb to 4 some do get bigger but the larger ones are tough as they are smart see well and tend to turn off their bite after a few smaler fish go away as far as their appearance they are grey with a amber line over the back stretching into a dark line across their eyes 
species 2 is a true cubera snapper also refered to a black snapper in the panhandle it is a fish that behaves almost exactly the same as the traditional mangrove but lives in waters from 6o to 120 ft typicaly in nearshore gulf waters they are the ones u can chum up on a good private natural bottom spot they behave the same as the mangroves realy weary have the same body shape as the mangrove along with the teeth yet they tend to have a more bronze look almost a cross from a bay redfish and the true mangrove ive caugh the cuberas we call blacks up twords 20 lbs out of destin and down south they get up twords 60 lbs and bigger verry few people realise this but ask cptains or long tearm fishermen this is the truth about our so called black snapper and who cares what u call it in the big bend the mangroves are called mangos not mingos over there our mingos are b liners bliners in reality those are vermilion snapper in here there or in china names change from region to region but for better or worst thats the panhandle black snapper


----------



## FenderBender

i call them all mangs or mangys. they are all the same, black, mangrove, gray


----------



## weedline

yes they are the inshore variety but those in 60 to 120 feet with more of a bronze color are cuberas if u dont know that u need a charter boat and to fish more come on they look no more like a true mangrove than a f ing juvinal king lookins like a spanish but hey u may be the guy killing a 16 in king braging about your big spanish


----------



## weedline

and no there is a true black snapper a true grey snapper and do some research none are what we call blacks we call black snapper both mangroves and cuberas and they are 2 different fish get a clue


----------



## weedline

its like we call almaco jacks rock salmon or tusk eels codfish and o i foregot that bluerunner u try to fish with wait we call him a hardtaly and da m n even a cigar minow just a rounded scad so next time i catch a 19" amber jack can i do like u and call it a lesser aj or banded rudder fish


----------



## Robin

Man,I hate to be a dick,please use some punctuation.....................


----------



## NorthernExposure

Reel Wins said:


> Black snapper=Mangrove snapper


That's funny, my cousin went out of Hubbards marina 12 hr trip and while catching grunts the mate called them black snapper?


----------



## snapperfan

NorthernExposure said:


> That's funny, my cousin went out of Hubbards marina 12 hr trip and while catching grunts the mate called them black snapper?


I have fished Hubbard's boats many times including the 34 hour trip. That's what they tell the tourists so that they think they are getting something special.


----------



## 20simmons sea skiff

*black snapper*







front fish book calls them black snapper, grey snapper.mangrove, mango snapper and caballerote


----------



## hsiF deR

Robin said:


> Man,I hate to be a dick,please use some punctuation.....................


:laughing: HAHAHAHAHAHA......I was thinking the same thing. I read that crap twice and still not sure what it meant.


----------



## Magic Mike

hsiF deR said:


> :laughing: HAHAHAHAHAHA......I was thinking the same thing. I read that crap twice and still not sure what it meant.


+1 :blink:


----------



## weedline

to all of u that dont understand my typing style i never use punctuation thats just me get over it if u cant make sence of it dont read what i have to say with that said the pic 20simmons posted is correct that is 1 or our snappers refered to as a black but that is a cubera dont worry the regs are the same now if someone would post one of the smaller varities caught in the bay u will see the difference here is one i found online almost identical shape wise but coloration is lighter me and other captains have discused this issue for years and have all come to the conclusion the darker offshore variety are 90% of the time cuberas


----------



## Instant Karma

Dude, you type like my wife talks....


----------



## weedline

just wondering are u insulting me and your wife or giving us both compliments


----------



## weedline

and for u guys or girls that have partyboat fished alot everything u will catch is some kind of snapper ever hear of the elusive firemouth snapper aka the rubylips


----------



## hsiF deR

weedline said:


> all come to the conclusion the darker offshore variety are 90% of the time cuberas


I disagree.


----------



## Chris V

Cuberas are not common in the northern gulf. They are more common than most think but should still be considered a rare catch. Gray snapper have 4 different color phases which have led to them having different names, especially "black snapper". Gray snapper can attain weights of nearly 30lbs so just because it is an unusually large gray/mangrove/black snapper does not mean its a cubera. I have only seen a handful of true cuberas come from our area and have only caught one personally.

Ruby lips are Tomtates, a species of grunt.


----------



## Mullethead

hsiF deR said:


> I disagree.


Thanks !!!! new actually saw photos of the 'arrow patch' .


----------



## CountryFolksCanSurvive22

The darker snapper that simmons skiff showed a picture of is identical to most of what I catch at this location. Only difference is that the majority are 8-15 inches. Correct me if I'm wrong, but go on FWC's salwater regs and it states no minimum size limit for blacks but greys it says 10? I have caught some at this spot different times of the year that appear to be more of a light grey tint so thanks Chris V that explains that. Just unsure about the size limit.


----------



## CountryFolksCanSurvive22

BTW This spot is an inshore topsecret hotspot that is known for producing non traditional inshore caught species( I caught a 16 in queen snapper last winter) lol so it could be an exception and they could be blacks. Plan on fishing there tommorow so hopefully some pics to follow.


----------



## JD7.62

Black snapper, mangrove,snapper, mango snapper, great snapper....all of these terms are correct....and wrong.

That is the problem with common names and regs. We should be using latin names, MUCH less confusing, at least regs wise.

_Lujanus griseus_ = what is typically known around here as black or mangrove snapper. A different species than _L. cyanopterus_ aka cubera snapper.

Honestly I have no idea what a "true black snapper" is. I cant even find it on FWCs website. Also, sometimes because a fish is a called a snapper doesnt mean it is! For example, white snapper are not even close to be being Lujantids!


----------



## snapperfan

JD7.62 said:


> Black snapper, mangrove,snapper, mango snapper, great snapper....all of these terms are correct....and wrong.
> 
> That is the problem with common names and regs. We should be using latin names, MUCH less confusing, at least regs wise.
> 
> _Lujanus griseus_ = what is typically known around here as black or mangrove snapper. A different species than _L. cyanopterus_ aka cubera snapper.
> 
> Honestly I have no idea what a "true black snapper" is. I cant even find it on FWCs website. Also, sometimes because a fish is a called a snapper doesnt mean it is! For example, white snapper are not even close to be being Lujantids!



Thank you!
There is no "black" snapper in the federal regulations either.
http://www.gulfcouncil.org/fishing_regulations/regulations_matrix/Site/Regulations_Matrix.html


----------



## CountryFolksCanSurvive22

Here is a few from yesterday.


----------



## MrFish

Mangrove snappers. With the one being a red porgy(aka white snapper).


----------



## CountryFolksCanSurvive22

This is why people stay so pissed off at the state bc a lot of regs aren't very clear. I've seen plenty of grey snapper caught on tv but I don't see anything grey looking about these. Can understand the color change mentioned earlier but when you put in your handbook that black snapper dont have a size limit, it could get interesting in court. Oh yeah almost forgot...seen BILL DANCE yesterday at the dock when we were heading out! Guess its a small world after all.


----------



## Sizuper

Hopefully this will help clear it all up. 

There is a Black Snapper included in the Florida fishing regs because there *is* indeed a species of snapper native to Florida waters called the Black Snapper. It can be found from around the Melbourne area on the SE Atlantic coast all the way to Key West. It's rarely seen by most Florida coastal/inshore anglers because it is rarely found in less than 100 feet of water. 

It's scientific name is Apsilus dentatus, so although it is a true snapper (family Lutjanidae), it is not closely related to most snappers like Grey & Red Snappers (most of which are of genus Lutjanus), and thus it would never be mistaken for another snapper species in Florida. The only other snappers of genus Apsilus live in Africa (African forktail snapper) and the East Indies & Australia (Yellowtail blue snapper.

*Here's what the Black Snapper looks like: *











The other two snappers discussed here do look similar, but upon closer inspection (especially the teeth), it is clear which one is which. 

*The Grey Snapper (Lutjanus griseus):*











*The Cubera Snapper (Lutjanus cyanopterus):*













The Grey Snapper is also called Mangrove Snapper because it is loves to inhabit the root system of mangrove shorelines. It is also called Mango snapper because some people can't pronounce the word very well, and they are/were trying to say "Mangrove", and others heard them and thought "Mango" was their real name. It's the same way that "Jawfish" became "Jewfish" before being changed to Goliath Grouper. Why folks in the panhandle call the Grey Snapper a Black Snapper is anyone's guess. 

I've traveled around the country a lot to fish and have always been partly fascinated and partly annoyed at how it happens that so many people call very common fish by different names. Living in New England was the worst for this. I grew up in the south and had a really difficult time understanding what anyone was talking about for awhile, because they call Flounder "Fluke", they call a Spot a "Lafayette", they call Tautog "Blackfish", they call Scup "Porgy", etc. When I moved there I was so excited that everyone said that Snappers could be caught all over the place in the summer...only to find they were all really talking about baby Bluefish. 

I had the same problem in reverse in freshwater. I learned to fish freshwater in the heartland northern states, and when I started to venture from salt water to fresh water in Florida, I had no idea what people were talking about when they said Stumpknockers, Shellcrackers, Copperheads, Speckled Perch, etc. Took awhile to figure out these were really Spotted Sunfish, Redear Sunfish, Bluegills and Crappie. 

Then you have the fish that people call "Pogy" in the southeast, "Bunker" in the northeast, "Hardheads" in the mid-Atlantic states, and "Fatbacks" in the western Gulf, but nowhere does anyone seem to call them their actual name, Menhaden. 

To this day I don't understand why people don't just call a fish what it's name is, but I've given up trying to figure it out.


----------



## weedline

sounds like u know what u are talking about, i was trying to bring up the same point but i have caught and seen caught many so called black/mangrove /grey snapper that were 10 to 25 lbs out of destin, the world record is 18 they are not bright like the picture u have but i cant believe we have filleted many world record fish all the charter guys know they are cuberas thay just dont talk about it


----------



## weedline

and with all our northern mackerel, rock salmon, codfish and black snappers in the panhandle a menhaden is still a menhaden lol


----------



## Yakavelli

Five years and still haven't learned the importance of punctiation...


----------



## NKlamerus

You forgot about the white tuna holding that Cubera.


----------



## navkingfisher

no, that was a big eye tuna!


----------



## Lyin Too

You're both wrong. That's a splittailed snapper.


----------



## 706Z

Some from last week;















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 155SprtFsh

*Mangrove Red Snapper*

"Lutjanus Argentimaculatus"...This is what we catch at 3 Mile and around docks in the Intercoastal Waterway....End of the story.


----------



## 155SprtFsh

Gray (Mangrove)
*State:* 10" TL
*Federal:* 12" TL
*State: *5 per person within the 10 snapper aggregate bag limit 
*Federal:* 10 per person within the 10 snapper aggregate bag limit 

Open Year-Round


----------

