# Starting/running issues



## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

I'm looking for advice on my outboard issues. I have an 50ph Johnson that just has issues idling and running....always has since I've had it. It's been to three different mechanics in the area and each time I get it back it runs for maybe a day and then I have issues come up again. 

Today I ran it on the muffs before taking it out and it idled fine. I was able to get it in and out of gear with no issues. I dropped in Pensacola Bay and it started right up and idled and went into gear. After running for about 100 yards we noticed that it wasn't finding a cruising speed like it should. It would either run really low or you'd have to mash the throttle down and then it would move too fast. Trying to find a nice middle-ground was impossible. It's almost like there is no medium cruising speed at all now. It finally died and then we had trouble getting it started at all. After a while of tooling with it and choking I got it to stay running and on the way back it died twice while trying to find a speed between idle and super-fast.

I've uploaded a video of the issues I had today. Now I can't get it to stay running even on the muffs.

Most of the parts on the motor are brand new (fuel pump, head gasket, spark plugs, coils, power pack, starter and primer solenoid, wiring...). The carbs were just rebuilt and I'm using fresh gas.

Here's the video of my issue - http://youtu.be/dEYyFtmM1TI


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## Sequoiha (Sep 28, 2007)

Sounds like a carb job is in order. And just because the carbs were just rebuilt doesn't mean it was right, have you ever had a leak down test done.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

I'm not counting out anything with this motor, but the mechanic that just rebuilt them is a pretty well-respected and recommended mechanic on these forums. I believe he did a good job with them.

What do you mean by "leak test?"


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## lastcast (Oct 12, 2007)

But this says to bring up to operating temp.


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## JT Powell (Jun 20, 2012)

Prime it, then start it up when it starts to die pump the bubble and see if it fixes your problem. If so it's the fuel pump.


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## pappastratos (Oct 9, 2007)

Like the previous reply stated to check the primer bulb, one to also check is the linkage of the timing base & carb(s). I had a similar issue, I rebuilt the carbs & still had same issue. Then I checked the linkages & adjustments to the OEM book & they were off just a little. Then is cleared up. Also, try to adjust the idle screws out a little, could be lean & causing to starve for fuel until carbs open up at higher throttle position.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

I went out and played with it a little more today and got it to idle okay on muffs, but I did find that when I pull the bottom spark plug it stays running (no change), if I pull the top spark plug it dies immediately. If I try and start the motor with only the bottom spark plug in it starts up sometimes, but then dies almost right away. Starting it with the top one in stays running.


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## oldflathead (Oct 3, 2007)

Check compression. Sometimes one cylinder will fail due to improper lube, i.e., one carb plugs, the other does not, it keeps running on one cylinder a short time.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

I checked compression and it's at 130 on top and bottom cylinders. I threw my spark tester on each plug and both appear to have spark.

Here's a video I took of the spark on my bottom cylinder. Please let me know what you guys think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3YytTZ9Hgc&feature=youtu.be


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

I sprayed a little carb cleaner into the bottom carb while idling and it revs right up. Here's a video of it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkCBLEAISqU&feature=youtu.be (sorry for all of the videos, but I figured they would help)

Does this mean that my issue is fuel-related. Perhaps something either sticking or clogged in that bottom carb?


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

I went and got another spark tester to measure the spark. I set it to a 1/2 inch and 7/16 and I would see a thin blue spark connect every few seconds. Here's a video of my results. Can anyone verify if this spark should be thicker and more consistent or if this looks right? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfTZXWSwCHo&feature=youtu.be


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## The Maintenance Shoppe (Nov 5, 2007)

bad coil or power pack.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

Hmmm, both the coils and power pack are new.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe (Nov 5, 2007)

you need a peak voltage reader and check for 150volts+ going into the coil. You will not get an accurate reading without a peak voltage reader.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> you need a peak voltage reader and check for 150volts+ going into the coil. You will not get an accurate reading without a peak voltage reader.


 I don't have one of those. Can those be purchased at an auto parts store?


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

can u pull the bottom carb off yourself? They are very easy to work on once you get it off.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

dustyflair said:


> can u pull the bottom carb off yourself? They are very easy to work on once you get it off.


Yep, I took them apart this morning. The passages were all clear. The float in the lower carb was a little off, so I adjusted it, but I'm still having the issue. I'm thinking its related to spark now.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

would this work?


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## The Maintenance Shoppe (Nov 5, 2007)

JasonL said:


> would this work?


it is a $50 adapter that plugs into a volt meter.
No autoparts store has it in stock.
Pro marine usa online sells them.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> it is a $50 adapter that plugs into a volt meter.
> No autoparts store has it in stock.
> Pro marine usa online sells them.


I appreciate your help. I went out at night and hooked up the spark tester back up to the motor. I figured it would be easier to see the spark in the dark. I set it to 1/2 inch. Here is what I've got. Please let me know if this seems about right for my motor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2uYuPjTcxw&feature=youtu.be


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## The Maintenance Shoppe (Nov 5, 2007)

JasonL said:


> I appreciate your help. I went out at night and hooked up the spark tester back up to the motor. I figured it would be easier to see the spark in the dark. I set it to 1/2 inch. Here is what I've got. Please let me know if this seems about right for my motor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2uYuPjTcxw&feature=youtu.be


There is nothing wrong with that spark!!!
When is the last time a compression test on the bottom cylinder?
Can you switch out the top and bottom carbs?


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## Breeze (Mar 23, 2012)

You have spark and you have compression. Only other thing you need to run is fuel. Sounds like a fuel problem to me.



Sent from my M470BSA using Tapatalk


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> There is nothing wrong with that spark!!!
> When is the last time a compression test on the bottom cylinder?
> Can you switch out the top and bottom carbs?


Yep, I have 130 on both top and bottom cylinders and apparently good spark. Now I'm at a loss though. I've got good compression and good spark in both cylinders and I checked my carbs and they look all clear.

Also, if I have good spark on each cylinder, can I rule out the stator and trigger or are those still in play as a possible culprit?


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## Breeze (Mar 23, 2012)

Just cause the carbs look clean doesn't mean something isnt stuck in one of the passages. Could have been something in the fuel line got into the carb after it was cleaned. Your gonna have to pull the bottom carb and clean it again.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

Breeze said:


> Just cause the carbs look clean doesn't mean something isnt stuck in one of the passages. Could have been something in the fuel line got into the carb after it was cleaned. Your gonna have to pull the bottom carb and clean it again.


I pretty much did this afternoon. I sprayed carb cleaner through every hole and inspected them. Everything looked clear and the cleaner went through all of the passages without any issues.


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## Breeze (Mar 23, 2012)

Check your seal where the carb mounts to the engine. Might be sucking air.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe (Nov 5, 2007)

vacum leak on the bottom half of the engine block. bottom reeds have problems, need to inspect.

fuel pump internally leaking fuel into air passage port on block.


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## pappastratos (Oct 9, 2007)

Ok, one more long shot, plugs do go bad, I had one that was cracked on a car & it took a certified technician over a 1/2 a day to figure it out,,,,


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

pappastratos said:


> Ok, one more long shot, plugs do go bad, I had one that was cracked on a car & it took a certified technician over a 1/2 a day to figure it out,,,,


 I thought about that and switched the spark plug from the top to the bottom and still the top would fire and bottom wouldn't.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> vacum leak on the bottom half of the engine block. bottom reeds have problems, need to inspect.
> 
> fuel pump internally leaking fuel into air passage port on block.


 Thanks for the suggestions. What kind of issues should I be looking for with the reed valves? Also, would the fuel pump leaking air only affect the bottom cylinder from firing?


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## pappastratos (Oct 9, 2007)

Ok, me again, is the lower carb have fuel in it ? Also, I read where someone had a motor that sucked a piece of foam from the cowling thru the carb & it was stuck in the reed. Reed issue?, one would be bent or broke. that is usually rare. I would still think that the carb has something stuck in it. Could be a piece of fuel line breaking down. Before I have someone look at it, I would clean that lower carb again, check the fuel lines, & check the linkages.


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

pappastratos said:


> Ok, me again, is the lower carb have fuel in it ? Also, I read where someone had a motor that sucked a piece of foam from the cowling thru the carb & it was stuck in the reed. Reed issue?, one would be bent or broke. that is usually rare. I would still think that the carb has something stuck in it. Could be a piece of fuel line breaking down. Before I have someone look at it, I would clean that lower carb again, check the fuel lines, & check the linkages.


 
Yep, I just took both carbs apart again and both had plenty of fuel in the bowls. Both carbs looked nice and clean/clear. All of the jets flowed freely. I checked the reeds and didn't see anything odd. Both moved together with no hindrance. All fuel lines are clear and fuel pump seems to be in working order.

At this point I think I'm going to give up. I'm not sure what else I can check or do.


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## pappastratos (Oct 9, 2007)

hey, what did you find out?


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## JasonL (May 17, 2011)

The lower carb was the issue. Even though it looked good to the eye something was restricting fuel flow. I found a used set of carbs online and now both cylinders are firing.

Sent from my RM-940_nam_att_200 using Tapatalk


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## TeaSea (Sep 28, 2013)

Breeze said:


> You have spark and you have compression. Only other thing you need to run is fuel. Sounds like a fuel problem to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my M470BSA using Tapatalk


You nailed it. Good call.:thumbsup:


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