# Thoughts on a carry/defense firearm



## pappastratos

Age old question, I am looking for a small carry accurate pistol/revolver. I am not a big fan of hammerless pistols like a Glock. Some of the semi autos do have a hammer. I also am looking at a .38 revolver 2" barrel. I know that is old school. This will be carried daily, so it will have wear, so don't need anything pretty. So, revolver or semi auto? I have owned each & can't say I favor one or the other. I like the compact size of a semi auto but the reliability of a revolver,


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## Sequoiha

I personally carry a semi auto, the slim design works better for my fat belly and spare tire, if you keep it clean and use quality ammo reliability shouldn't be an issue,


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## sfiturbo

.38 special is the way to go for anyone IMO..easy to use in a stressful environment and reliable...point and click. You need more than 5/6 rounds to put down a threat you should have ran instead.


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## kanaka

Revolver will not leave brass with your fingerprints on em all over the place. Food for thought.


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## randynation

kanaka said:


> Revolver will not leave brass with your fingerprints on em all over the place. Food for thought.


I usually wear gloves to load my carry clip.


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## holicori

Why not go with a .357 instead of a .38? they aren't that much bigger are they? I had a .357 and loved it. I liked that I could throw .38's in there to shoot. 

Im not a gun guru so if there's an obvious reason forgive me. 

Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. I think I'm going to avoid the revolver this time. My last one held 5...and as I said, I'm not a gun guru and don't shoot very often. So, Id like to have more than 5 chances to hit my target with snub nose barrel. 

My wife likes a revolver and I like that idea, because if it jammed she'd be too slow to figure it out.


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## Reel Sick

Desert Eagle...
But on a serious note I was thinking about this yesterday I have a little 380 with 6+1. Anyone carry a compact 40 cal?


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## markbxr400

I have 3 carries:

Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 40
Ruger LCP380
North American Arms 22 mag mini-revolver

I always have the 3rd one with me, but if going to town or somewhere, I carry one of the others with the NAA as a backup. The NAA may not put somebody down, but it is small enough to always be on me. It's very loud, and packs a lot of punch for such a small caliber.

I use jacketed hollowpoint defensive ammo in all of them.


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## HisName




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## Stoker1

holicori said:


> Why not go with a .357 instead of a .38? they aren't that much bigger are they? I had a .357 and loved it. I liked that I could throw .38's in there to shoot.


Recoil and follow up shot placement. Burn 3 and 3 through it quickly and see how you do. The mag will definitely challenge the new/average shooter especially in a stressful situation.

On a side note... we ran quick back to back sessions with my LC9 and then full size 45. The smaller framed 9mm rocked like crazy, where the 45 seemed manageable.


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## MrFish

Have you shot a Glock? Just curious. I prefer my 23C, since it gives me good capacity and it doesn't have that snap of the 23.


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## Boat-Dude

Have you tried the 43?


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## AndyS

*Aaaaah, the old revolver vs semi-auto vs caliber vs make/model debate.* 

I'm neither firearms instructor nor gun-guru, but I've carried a lot of different handguns and calibers during the course of my previous 26 year career, both concealed & open carry and in a pretty wide variety of environments .... and had my fair-share of tactical handgun training _(both govt & a couple of private schools Uncle Sugar sent me to)_ ... to my mind, for purposes of personal defensive shooting .... tactics & knowing/being comfortable carrying & using your personal sidearm are more important than the debate over revolver vs semi-auto or any particular caliber 38 & over. Don't get me wrong ... those debates are fine & they are useful ... but they are not the be-all/end-all of carrying a sidearm.

*Were the sh*t to hit the fan in some dark place while I were out & about ... or even in a well-lit convenience store or gas station ... I'd rather have a 22 revolver & good training & mindset than a high-dollar .45 & little training & no tactical mindset.*

Whatever handgun & caliber you happen to have, whether by choice or it's just what you happen to have, don't skimp on spending some time at the range; do stress courses not just target shooting if you can get access to a range that allows it; go to the range at least one time & practice shooting in a hard driving rain -try it sometime in the freezing cold, then try reloading in that weather!; practice drawing your weapon from various clothing & body positions until it's second nature; learn/practice point-shooting (no sights); practice shooting after running 20 yards or more; practice shooting from different positions on the ground; practice falling with your firearm in your hand (unloaded, of course) people trip & fall sometimes ... I have, there's no shame, it happens; practice finding, moving to, & using cover & concealment; practice with friend/foe pop-up targets; practice in low-light & in the dark; practice backing up/away from a situation while drawing & getting your firearm pointed downrange at your perceived threat - if you're in a situation you don't have to stand there like a statue, you need to be able to move & draw; practice with someone making a random loud noise, yelling, or lights in the area; practice from exiting a vehicle; practice retrieving your extra mag or speedloader from wherever you carry them in your clothing; accidentally on-purpose drop & recover your mag or speedloader from the ground - then try it in the dark _(that's really fun while under simulated fire from an assailant!_); practice moving around within your home in the dark or low-light (unloaded of course); practice with different kinds of clothing on; develop muscle memory for drawing, reloading, & clearing a jam; 

Practice getting your sidearm out & pointed downrange as much or more as you do actually shooting it. A lot of cops been shot fumbling or having a clothing malfunction trying to get their sidearm out. Especially carrying concealed in plainclothes. I attended a very good lecture on this one time with plenty of examples and experienced it real-world on couple of occasions myself _(no actual shoot ensued, thankfully, but talk about pucker-factor going up by a factor of ten when you can't draw & get pointed downrange as quickly as you might need to due to clothing and/or the way you might be carrying!)_ Having a bigger/better gun does you no good whatsoever if the bad guy gets off a shot while you're still trying to get it out of your pants or wherever.

Learn, read about, and practice if you can take-way prevention techniques. _ (if you don't know what that is ... that's when somebody tries to take away your firearm or actually gets their hands on it in a struggle) _Happened to me in what unexpectedly ended up being a ground-fight one time & I instinctively reverted to my training & retained my weapon. Had I not had some practice with it in training it could have easily gone otherwise & that would have been a _really_ bad day for me! I had a sneaky instructor in one firearms retention class who had a habit of letting the student easily beat the attempted takeway, but in the course of the attempted takeway he would hit their magazine release button so their magazine would fall out when they regained control of their weapon. Surprise!!!! It could happen ... even if by accident. 

Do mental visualization exercises (what-if's) from time to time as you go about your daily life_ (what would I do right now "if"?; where is there cover/concealment near me? how would I get to it; how would I exit my vehicle with my firearm while drawing if I needed to; who else is in the area? family-members? passers-by? who - what innocent - might be on the other side of the drywall in the direction my weapon might be pointed, etc)_

.... and, a lot of folks may not think of this and some on here may disagree with me (esp if they are an audiologist) .... but think about maybe practicing at least one time _without_ hearing protection indoors somewhere _(use blanks just a couple of shots, or in the alternative get a toy cap pistol & do it.)_ short-barreled handguns can be really loud, you'd be surprised how deafening it can be in a small room and how this can affect you, your shooting, and your psyche ... your brain needs to know what to expect in terms of both the sound & muzzle flash in a closed environment. _ (don't do this often or your hearing will soon be as bad as mine, just once or twice is enough so it's not entirely unfamiliar to your brain/senses - it ain't quite the same as shooting at the range with hearing protection) _And, I don't recommend actually practicing this, but just think/visualize a little bit about how it's gonna be if you ever need to fire within the confines of a vehicle. Ouch!

Now granted .. your average citizen CCW shooter may not have access to a range that allows them to do all of this stuff or regularly, and may not want or have time to - that's understandable .... but one can adapt or at least think about these things, you don't have to make tactical handgun training your life, but get at least a little experience with some of it ... practice some techniques unloaded in some private place if that's all you can do. Sh*t happens .... just like a physical altercation, it's not always gonna go how you imagined it would, regardless of what you're carrying ... so think about it & practice whatever tactics you can ... even if one doesn't have access to a tactical range, you can do a lot unloaded in some private place or at home. _(safety note: if you've never done tactical shooting courses ... do moving exercises in slow-motion & unloaded at first, as you become comfortable with the ergonomics you can gradually ramp up to something a little closer to a normal speed, bad things can happen if you try to just jump into it full speed & loaded having never done it before ... even under professionally supervised training)_

Things can get _surreal_ fast in a real-world tactical situation whether it involves a firearm or not. Tunnel vision, rapid pulse, and other things can happen. I've no doubt many others here on the PFF have plenty of real-world experience themselves, some much more than I, be they military, LEO, or otherwise. If it's never happened to you real-world, it's good to try to simulate a little bit of that in training so your brain/body is not entirely taken by surprise if/when it happens & you can work with/through it. Training & visualization helps ... it's probably what you will instinctively revert to.

Now let me reiterate ...* I am not a firearms or tactical instructor.* If you disagree with anything I've had to say here, well .... okay. Just had quite a bit of training & field experience. Fortunately, I never actually shot anybody, and I'm glad of that ... but I've come close to having to on four or five occasions. At least I never got shot myself & never lost the fight ... and I'm even more glad of that!

Oh .... and learn the laws!

Okay .... rant over ... carry on.


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## Orion45

holicori said:


> Why not go with a .357 instead of a .38? they aren't that much bigger are they? I had a .357 and loved it. I liked that I could throw .38's in there to shoot.
> 
> Im not a gun guru so if there's an obvious reason forgive me.
> 
> Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. I think I'm going to avoid the revolver this time. My last one held 5...and as I said, I'm not a gun guru and don't shoot very often. So, Id like to have more than 5 chances to hit my target with snub nose barrel.
> 
> My wife likes a revolver and I like that idea, because if it jammed she'd be too slow to figure it out.


 A.38 SPL + P is a fairly powerful load and easier to control than a .357 round from a snub nosed revolver. Also, less chance of collateral damage.

I like the S&W 642 because the internal hammer so you can shoot it from inside your wind breaker pocket and it will never jam. You might set your coat pocket smoldering but your attacker will be surprised when the lead starts hitting his gut. 

Close and personal and he'll never know what hit him.

Try shooting a pistol from inside your pocket. :whistling:


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## BDALE BOY

Springfield xds .45


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## Sequoiha

Reel Sick said:


> Desert Eagle...
> But on a serious note I was thinking about this yesterday I have a little 380 with 6+1. Anyone carry a compact 40 cal?


That's what I carry, Glock 23


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## sealark

380 LCP Ruger, Small, No safety Just pull the trigger and it cocks and fires. Cheap and looks like my wallet in front pocket. Mine has a really neat laser sight. Hope I never have to use it I seldom carry it because the Navy base won't allow it.


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## kingfish501

I carry a ParaOrdnance P12. 3.5 inch barrel, 12 rounds of .45 HydraShoks in the mag, plus one in the chamber, in a Bianchi IWB holster.,plus a spare mag.


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## Reel Sick

Sequoiha said:


> That's what I carry, Glock 23


What's the best method of carry on that gun? I have a glock 23 with a lasermax sight. I love this laser because it replaces the guide rod and it flashes for the high visibility. The 23 just seems a little big to carry but interested in how you conceal it. Thanks


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## Boat-Dude

Hey Brandon have you looked at the Glock 43? It's pretty small and thin single stack 9mm.


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## Reel Sick

Pier-Dude said:


> Hey Brandon have you looked at the Glock 43? It's pretty small and thin single stack 9mm.


No I haven't put my hands on 1 yet. My dad has the poor man glock the diamondback 9mm.


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## nextstep

Orion45 said:


> A.38 SPL + P is a fairly powerful load and easier to control than a .357 round from a snub nosed revolver. Also, less chance of collateral damage.
> 
> I like the S&W 642 because the internal hammer so you can shoot it from inside your wind breaker pocket and it will never jam. You might set your coat pocket smoldering but your attacker will be surprised when the lead starts hitting his gut.
> 
> Close and personal and he'll never know what hit him.
> 
> Try shooting a pistol from inside your pocket. :whistling:


there is very little size and weight difference between 38 and 357.
the only control issue is the the smile you get feeling the difference of firing 
the mag. maybe less of a chance of collateral damage with 38 because the 38 may not have good penetration. get the mag and if you don't feel comfortable you can shoot 38.

i know a retired deputy who used to carry 38 until he had to use it on someone on pcp with a knife. emptied it and the bad guy didn't stop until he was almost on the deputy. deputy carried a mag after that.


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## Boardfeet

45ACP
Because it's just silly to shoot twice.


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## Orion45

nextstep said:


> there is very little size and weight difference between 38 and 357.
> the only control issue is the the smile you get feeling the difference of firing
> the mag. maybe less of a chance of collateral damage with 38 because the 38 may not have good penetration. get the mag and if you don't feel comfortable you can shoot 38.
> 
> i know a retired deputy who used to carry 38 until he had to use it on someone on pcp with a knife. emptied it and the bad guy didn't stop until he was almost on the deputy. deputy carried a mag after that.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKodDZpk-14


I disagree on the control issue.

There is a definite difference when firing a .38 SPL, a .38 SPL+P, and a .357 from a snub nosed revolver. My S&W 642 has a 1 7/8" barrel.

I can get on target quicker when firing .38 SPL+P ammo from my S&W 642 (1 7/8" barrel) than I can firing .357 ammo from a S&W Model 19 (2 1/2" barrel)...but that might be just me. 

The .38 SPL+P has 12" of penetration which is more than enough for me.

Also, .38 Specials will lose a little velocity when fired from a revolver chambered for the slightly longer .357 Magnum.


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## ranger250x

Smith J-Frame in .38 carried in a Remora holster would be a good start and very discreet.


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## Burnt Drag

Orion45 said:


> A.38 SPL + P is a fairly powerful load and easier to control than a .357 round from a snub nosed revolver. Also, less chance of collateral damage.
> 
> I like the S&W 642 because the internal hammer so you can shoot it from inside your wind breaker pocket and it will never jam. You might set your coat pocket smoldering but your attacker will be surprised when the lead starts hitting his gut.
> 
> Close and personal and he'll never know what hit him.
> 
> Try shooting a pistol from inside your pocket. :whistling:


I don't disagree with putting a hole in a pocket, but out of a snub nose .38, the +P is incapable of burning the excess powder. The 158 grain round nose lead, or preferably a wad cutter is the ticket.


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## Burnt Drag

Pier-Dude said:


> Hey Brandon have you looked at the Glock 43? It's pretty small and thin single stack 9mm.


I like my 19... you can play longer..if needed. 
:whistling:


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## Orion45

Burnt Drag said:


> I don't disagree with putting a hole in a pocket, but out of a snub nose .38, the +P is incapable of burning the excess powder. The 158 grain round nose lead, or preferably a wad cutter is the ticket.


While attached to the Military Liaison Office at the U.S. Consulate in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, I procured some .38 ammo from the Marine detachment. I was told the first two rounds in their service pistol while on guard duty were wad cutters.

Before I purchased my S&W 642, I spent days researching online. One site that I saved was the Snubnose Files. It answers just about everything you want to know about snub nose revolvers.

The quote below is from their article titled _.38 Snub vs .357 Snub_ 

"...out of a 1 7/8″ barrel S&W Model 642, Corbon’s 115-grain +P+ JHP averages an amazing 1188 ft/sec. This is in the .357 range of velocities and might be thought of as a “quasi-magnum” load."

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm

I've owned .380 and 9mm pistols before but chose to switch to a S&W 642 (J Frame) for an all around concealed carry and a .45 Pistol as a house and car travel gun. Occasionally, I will carry the .45 pistol if I wear a coat or jacket.

Kind of hard lugging a .45 around in your shorts. :whistling:


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## Boat-Dude

If you are wearing a baby blue leisure suit then I would defiantly go with the chrome plated snub nose 38 tucked into your waist band. The chicks dig that stuff. Helps if you grow a mustache to, it really completes the package. :thumbup:


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## AndyS

Pier-Dude said:


> If you are wearing a baby blue leisure suit then I would defiantly go with the chrome plated snub nose 38 tucked into your waist band. The chicks dig that stuff. Helps if you grow a mustache to, it really completes the package. :thumbup:


You mean like this guy?













*

Note: needs to be a white tux if it's a formal affair ...*


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## Boat-Dude

HAHAHAHHAaaa Andy you win the interwebzz.


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## Orion45

Is that you Dude? 




*

*


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## Boat-Dude

Orion45 said:


> Is that you Dude?


I bet so he came up with that pic really fast. LOL


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## AndyS

Orion45 said:


> Is that you Dude?





Pier-Dude said:


> I bet so he came up with that pic really fast. LOL


I think he was talking about you PD. I'm generally referred to as "_The Dude_" ... not plain _"Dude_."

_(I traded my leisure suit in for a set of Class A's in 1979, anyway)
_


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## LIM-IT-OUT

just walk around in body armor you'll be alright... Guns, Im not a Fan. Too many people don't know how to respect a gun not saying you personally but the world in general.

having to walk around with a gun as insurance says a lot about the place we live in. Guns weren't invented to kill animals... I remember as a kid going back home from school 2 punks cornered me at a buss stop and told me to empty out my pockets, it was my birthday and my dad just gave me 100 bucks. I told them I wouldn't give them sh*t... he pulled out a gun pointed it at my face and then a bus came and they left. If I had a gun on me that situation wouldn't have become any better

so let me ask you, if I had a gun at the time do you think I should have shot them because they threatened my life so I should take there's? or better yet we could have all shot eachother!!

If you want to feel what its like to kill someone join the infantry. Otherwise don't use a gun as protection that's not an excuse to kill a person.

yep we all have the right to carry guns* so we all have the chance to shoot one another, or a deer with a semi auto pistol 

Guns...

Im going to add to this

a couple months ago my truck got broken into and so did my 2 roommates cars. we heard them break into my truck we all came outside to see what was going on. both of my roommates have guns / none of them brought out there gun... we could see the bandits running away... a clear shot for a pistol, should we have taken a shot if we could because they broke into our property on our property? A possible legal kill if Im not mistaken...

here is a what if
lets say a big guy punches you in the face because you knocked his beer over you feel threatened he's ready to hit you again... is this when you pull out the gun??? so you do, he doesn't think you will pull the trigger, so he pulls back his arm to throw another punch... is this when you shoot???? you shoot him now he is dead or has only one of his limbs of is paralyzed for life... because he was drunk and felt brave. 

my point is a gun as a protection tool isn't protection... people need protection from guns. no need to walk around with one. Imagine America and everyone was walking around strapped how safe we would all be.... hahahahaha

guns only give power to those with evil deeds... that goes for all weapons of destruction. you take away all weapons of destruction what do you have... a lot less destruction. Peace never came by waving a gun and it never will....


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## Orion45

I meant you Pier-Dude. 

I know Andy and that's not him in the photo.


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## Boat-Dude

You wouldn't catch me dead in a leisure suit, lol Plus I am not that good lookin.


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## MrFish

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> just walk around in body armor you'll be alright... Guns, Im not a Fan. Too many people don't know how to respect a gun not saying you personally but the world in general.
> 
> having to walk around with a gun as insurance says a lot about the place we live in. Guns weren't invented to kill animals... I remember as a kid going back home from school 2 punks cornered me at a buss stop and told me to empty out my pockets, it was my birthday and my dad just gave me 100 bucks. I told them I wouldn't give them sh*t... he pulled out a gun pointed it at my face and then a bus came and they left. If I had a gun on me that situation wouldn't have become any better
> 
> so let me ask you, if I had a gun at the time do you think I should have shot them because they threatened my life so I should take there's? or better yet we could have all shot eachother!!


I pull out my cell phone and show them that number 2 on speed dial is 911. Only because I can't figure out how to change voice mail from number 1.


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## Orion45

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> just walk around in body armor you'll be alright... Guns, Im not a Fan. Too many people don't know how to respect a gun not saying you personally but the world in general.
> 
> having to walk around with a gun as insurance says a lot about the place we live in. Guns weren't invented to kill animals... I remember as a kid going back home from school 2 punks cornered me at a buss stop and told me to empty out my pockets, it was my birthday and my dad just gave me 100 bucks. I told them I wouldn't give them sh*t... he pulled out a gun pointed it at my face and then a bus came and they left. If I had a gun on me that situation wouldn't have become any better
> 
> so let me ask you, if I had a gun at the time do you think I should have shot them because they threatened my life so I should take there's? or better yet we could have all shot eachother!!
> 
> If you want to feel what its like to kill someone join the infantry. Otherwise don't use a gun as protection that's not an excuse to kill a person.
> 
> yep we all have the right to carry guns* so we all have the chance to shoot one another, or a deer with a semi auto pistol
> 
> Guns...


I'll attribute your unwise actions to your youth. In the future, if someone has the drop on you and demands money, give him the money.

On the other hand, if my life or my family's life is in jeopardy I will be pulling that gun.

The 2nd Amendment does not force you to carry a gun. If you choose to become a victim...then don't carry one.

The rest of your post reads like typical anti-gun diatribe.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

Orion45 said:


> I'll attribute your unwise actions to your youth. In the future, if someone has the drop on you and demands money, give him the money.
> 
> On the other hand, if my life or my family's life is in jeopardy I will be pulling that gun.
> 
> The 2nd Amendment does not force you to carry a gun. If you choose to become a victim...then don't carry one.
> 
> The rest of your post reads like typical anti-gun diatribe.


it is typical... its all typical 

look Im not anti-gun 
but the thought to carry one in order to have the insurance to keep safe... that's a typical that doesn't need to exist. 

again IM NOT ANTI GUN 

but its all typical when a gun is found and innocent people are dead or people that don't deserve to die end up dead. when was the last time you heard a random civilian shoot 20 bandits and saved the lives of however many.... it doesn't happen... I guess we need more people to walk around with guns to make our streets and houses safe... 

keep the guns for the woods
pistols in the range

but don't feel like you need to carry a gun so you don't become a victom... if that's the case we're all doomed.... to me that thought process gives us the right to not only carry but to kill... ultimately when you buy a gun for "protection" that tell me you're ready to kill someone. a gun should be bought to hunt or go to the range with

personal protection is a huge gray area along with the thought that we need one as insurance. 
I don't see life insurance companies handing out 9mm to keep us safe...YET hahahaha


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## JoeyWelch

Why does this not surprise me...


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## LIM-IT-OUT

ok ok 

buy the one with the most and biggest bullets at semi auto... you never know what can happen and make sure you have a safe at home and in your car.


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## Orion45

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> ...when was the last time you heard a random civilian shoot 20 bandits and saved the lives of however many.... it doesn't happen... I guess we need more people to walk around with guns to make our streets and houses safe...


LMAO

Seventy-one year armed man foils robbery by two armed bandits at an Internet café in Ocala with approximately 30 patrons.

Feel free to respond when you extricate your foot from your mouth.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

WELL that's cool

but look at the other side of it all

evil deeds with guns vs good.... would you like me to go back in history and tell you all about it. There isn't enough youtube or google space for that


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## LIM-IT-OUT

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> WELL that's cool
> 
> but look at the other side of it all
> 
> evil deeds with guns vs good.... would you like me to go back in history and tell you all about it. There isn't enough youtube or google space for that


those guys were robbing a caffe... with guns. Most likely with the intent to not kill but steal the old man risked his life honorably, but not smartly that's not a situation to kill someone the robbers and the old man knew it so nobody died... but if one person was ready a lot of people could have died because the old man took the fist shot. put the terrorist folks we have today in there they would have not ran and more people would have died...

Im not going to argue anymore. I totally understand your point or anyone's but to me the bottom line is that a GUN is never the answer and if it is Im never going to be the one to pull the trigger because I believe I can walk around my entire life never needing to.... and I honestly believe that.


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## nextstep

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> those guys were robbing a caffe... with guns. Most likely with the intent to not kill but steal the old man risked his life honorably, but not smartly that's not a situation to kill someone the robbers and the old man knew it so nobody died... but if one person was ready a lot of people could have died because the old man took the fist shot. put the terrorist folks we have today in there they would have not ran and more people would have died...


its a shame the rest of the world does not possess your good soul,
but the fact is they don't.:no:


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## Splittine

This thread just went stupid.


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## Orion45

Splittine said:


> This thread just went stupid.


 Couldn't have said it better. :thumbup:


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## John B.

Yep, you're definitely from California...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Hopin4aboat

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> those guys were robbing a caffe... with guns. Most likely with the intent to not kill but steal the old man risked his life honorably, but not smartly that's not a situation to kill someone the robbers and the old man knew it so nobody died... but if one person was ready a lot of people could have died because the old man took the fist shot. put the terrorist folks we have today in there they would have not ran and more people would have died...
> 
> Im not going to argue anymore. I totally understand your point or anyone's but to me the bottom line is that a GUN is never the answer and if it is Im never going to be the one to pull the trigger because I believe I can walk around my entire life never needing to.... and I honestly believe that.


You Sir are delusional, the terrorists would have shot everyone in the place if everyone was unarmed but may or probably would have ran for a softer target when confronted like they usually do. You can watch your family be slaughtered and just maybe you live thru it to wonder what you could have done for the rest of your life. Me however couldn't live with my self watching everything I own slaughtered in front of me without action. I would rather be armed it gives me a better chance to live. After all I have reserved the fact I may die if ever attacked but I will die with dignity fighting for my family. I'm no billy bad ass, hope to god I never need to fight as I would rather flee with my family but backed into a corner hell will rain down. There have been multiple times in my life I "knew" I was going to die I made it those times and with the lords help I'll make it if I ever need to fight.


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## Hopin4aboat

Ps picked up my wife's S&W 642 on Friday and shot it today damn it's a fine shooting little gun. Even threw it in my pocket for a run to the store today and I must say its our first wheel gun but sure wont be the last.


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## Orion45




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## LIM-IT-OUT

Hopin4aboat said:


> You Sir are delusional, the terrorists would have shot everyone in the place if everyone was unarmed but may or probably would have ran for a softer target when confronted like they usually do. You can watch your family be slaughtered and just maybe you live thru it to wonder what you could have done for the rest of your life. Me however couldn't live with my self watching everything I own slaughtered in front of me without action. I would rather be armed it gives me a better chance to live. After all I have reserved the fact I may die if ever attacked but I will die with dignity fighting for my family. I'm no billy bad ass, hope to god I never need to fight as I would rather flee with my family but backed into a corner hell will rain down. There have been multiple times in my life I "knew" I was going to die I made it those times and with the lords help I'll make it if I ever need to fight.


your right if Im delusional for trusting my everyday life to be safe... I guess Im taking my chances for not having a gun on me at all times?????

and yes Im from cali

I swear to God that Ive lost more friends on the streets there then I have on deployments... does that mean I need to carry a gun....???? if so Im with whomever started this post which gun kills people the best would be a better question...


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## Orion45

Hopin4aboat said:


> Ps picked up my wife's S&W 642 on Friday and shot it today damn it's a fine shooting little gun. Even threw it in my pocket for a run to the store today and I must say its our first wheel gun but sure wont be the last.


 Congratulations.

I love mine...especially after a trigger job.


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## Splittine

Liberal thinking makes you go "Hhhhmmmmmmmm".


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## John B.

As for your concealed carry weapon, I recommend carrying whatever you will ACTUALLY CARRY, this means something comfortable, something you have confidence in. The only way you will gain confidence in your weapon is by actually shooting it. 

I would suggest something chambered in 9mm, ammo is cheaper than most wheel gun cartridges or random calibers. The cheaper the ammo, the more you will actually shoot your firearm. 

Truth be told, I hate Glocks, there's nothing sexy about them. But damn if they don't go bang every time. The glock 19 is arguably the most popular handgun in the country. 

I've carried several firearms. Glocks, keltecs, kahrs, diamondbacks, rugers, springfields, and several different 1911s. 

Currently I carry a ruger SR1911 commander for primary carry. I also carry an LCP in my front pocket.

My favorite carry is a glock 26, with an extra mag in my pocket.

Just don't skimp when it comes to holsters, or a good belt.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## JoeyWelch

Splittine said:


> Liberal thinking makes you go "Hhhhmmmmmmmm".



It all makes perfect sense in La La land.


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## MrFish

jlw1972 said:


> It all makes perfect sense in La La land.


For the record, my la la land is different from his La La land.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

jlw1972 said:


> It all makes perfect sense in La La land.


hahaha Im no liberal 

I think independently... look guys go ahead buy all the guns you want load up your house with ammo... Im not against that. but to think that you need a gun to protect yourself then you must live in fear. If I carried a gun everyday I could have shot at least 4 people in my life legally!!! :no:
I once had a gun pointed at my face because people believe we need them... Ive had my best friend shot and killed in high school because guns are rapid...  Ive never come across a time where I needed a gun, Ive only seen them do more harm then good. that's really my point:yes:

back in my school days I walked home knowing that I was going to get checked by a gang... I knew everyday the I could get jacked for everything I had on or had, or jumped just for wearing the wrong color shirt or hat... don't tell me about la la land... I grew up walking the streets in fear, especially at night. I still to this day don't think we *Need* a gun to *LIVE* life


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## Murphy's Law

When the hell did Hillary Clinton get a pff account ?

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## JoeyWelch

Murphy's Law said:


> When the hell did Hillary Clinton get a pff account ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


You can bet your ass he already has one of her stickers.


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## JoeyWelch

MrFish said:


> For the record, my la la land is different from his La La land.


Absolutely!

Mine too.


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## MrFish

> ... we could see the bandits running away... a clear shot for a pistol, should we have taken a shot if we could because they broke into our property on our property? A possible legal kill if Im not mistaken...


You are extremely mistaken. The fact that you even think this is legal is scary.


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## Murphy's Law

jlw1972 said:


> You can bet your ass he already has one of her stickers.


And on a Prius I'm betting

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## LIM-IT-OUT

MrFish said:


> You are extremely mistaken. The fact that you even think this is legal is scary.


they would have been on my property and I felt threatened... they broke entry and commenced robbery...

I thought my life and families life was at risk and or danger... I took the shot...

sounds dangerous but if every household in America had a gun do you think this case wouldn't come up???:whistling:

or what if they broke into my house and I found them in my daughters room??? I pull out the gun they run I shoot anyway...

or how about my case * real life incidents * 

I get a gun to my face because some kid can get one from anywhere. Or my Best friend dies ( shot in the chest ) because some kid wanted his money and clothes... Not too much good comes from a gun.... ever


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## John B.

You need to stick to the inshore section, matrix boy. At least there you can bullshit your way and have people believe you. This is a topic where you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. 

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## MrFish

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> they would have been on my property and I felt threatened... they broke entry and commenced robbery...
> 
> I thought my life and families life was at risk and or danger... I took the shot...
> 
> sounds dangerous but if every household in America had a gun do you think this case wouldn't come up???:whistling:


You said they were running away, therefore no threat. Seriously?


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## Murphy's Law

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> they would have been on my property and I felt threatened... they broke entry and commenced robbery...
> 
> I thought my life and families life was at risk and or danger... I took the shot...
> 
> sounds dangerous but if every household in America had a gun do you think this case wouldn't come up???:whistling:
> 
> or what if they broke into my house and I found them in my daughters room??? I pull out the gun they run I shoot anyway...


They was running away and you felt threatened ??

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## JoeyWelch

John B. said:


> You need to stick to the inshore section, matrix boy. At least there you can bullshit your way and have people believe you. This is a topic where you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


This is very good advice for you Limit.

Stick to blowing smoke up the ass of people who don't know better.


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## MrFish

Murphy's Law said:


> They was running away and you felt threatened ??
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


Skunks are the only thing threatening when they're running away...


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## Murphy's Law

MrFish said:


> Skunks are the only thing threatening when they're running away...


LMAO ! Very true. I'm just shocked this dude is in the military with this mind set.

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## LIM-IT-OUT

so good on yall for not thinking that way... and I don't think its right either and that's my point!!!!


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## Murphy's Law

It's amongst us and we just can't fix it boys #stupidity

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## LIM-IT-OUT

When is it ever needed to use a gun besides hunting or for targets..... " protection " is NOT a good reason to buy a gun... that's buying a gun with the intent to possibly shoot a person... what crime has to be made in order for you to kill someone... Do yall think that its going to happen. I had a person point a gun in my face even if I had a gun on me I wouldn't have shot him for he didn't shoot me.... 

when I walk into peoples houses and they have a collection of fire arms I cant help but think this guy is waiting to use it....

again Im not against fire arms but I don't think there is enough responsible people in this world to make them as easily accessible as they are and have personally seen more bad then good come out of them.


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## AndyS

Alert! Alert! Drama Alert on the PFF! Condition Red.












*All I know's I bet there's some folks in San Bernardino right now wishin' a couple of folks in that room had CCW permits. At least they'd a had a fighting chance.
*





*


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## Hopin4aboat

Lim it I respect your inshore prowess but you certainly live in a la la land of unicorns and rainbows and don't understand the law and responsibility of carrying a firearm and therefore I am glad you don't. You would end up being locked up losing your freedom and a statistic against people that responsibly carry if you acted the way you said you should/would have in those situations. Regardless I hope you never have a need and don't have a means.


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## Murphy's Law

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> I had a person point a gun in my face even if I had a gun on me I wouldn't have shot him for he didn't shoot me.


Let me get this straight, you have to be shot before you feel it's ok to shoot back ? Ever heard of a kill shot ? SMDH

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## John B.

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> When is it ever needed to use a gun besides hunting or for targets..... " protection " is NOT a good reason to buy a gun... that's buying a gun with the intent to possibly shoot a person... what crime has to be made in order for you to kill someone... Do yall think that its going to happen. I had a person point a gun in my face even if I had a gun on me I wouldn't have shot him for he didn't shoot me....
> 
> when I walk into peoples houses and they have a collection of fire arms I cant help but think this guy is waiting to use it....


So you don't have smoke alarms or fire extinguishers in your house? Just because I carry a gun, doesn't mean I'm going to use it... I have it in case I need it.

I DO NOT want to shoot someone. I really don't want to live with that, but if it comes down to it, I will end your career to keep my family and friends safe. 

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## Splittine

To much dumbassery in this one for me. Yall boys have fun listening to Hillary-it-out tell you how guns are the devil. I'm out.


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## FenderBender

Limit- serious question- to you, what constitutes a serious enough situation that you would use a gun to defend yourself or someone you love?

Say you come home from work to the door kicked and there's a guy with a knife to your wife/daughter/mothers throat raping her. You have a pistol in the dresser drawer. What would you do?

Extreme situation, but in this sad, perverse world we live in not outside the realm of possibility. Where would you draw the line and use a weapon to protect yourself or someone you love?


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## LIM-IT-OUT

you don't need to worry about me ever owning a gun, its the rest of the world... I wouldn't want to ever pull the trigger on a person so I don't touch a gun. I don't feel like my life needs a gun around for protection and even if it did a gun still isn't the answer.


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## markbxr400

Well, that's the great thing about the US. We can choose whether to take advantage of our rights. Some feel better and more secure carrying than others. 

One thing I believe - if I were in a room like that one last week, I would be praying someone was carrying. If they could have saved one life, or at least tried. . . 

I am at a gun range every week, have my CHL from 3 states and have been a responsible gun owner and user for years. I shoot more than 10,000 rounds a year. But until the last two years, I never really thought much about the need to carry all the time. I would only carry if I felt I was going to be in an unfamiliar situation or setting (which I always try to avoid). 

Now, I feel the need to carry. It's apparent to be that our current administration is not only not going to protect us, but has been going out of its way to alienate our fine police officers and put a fear in them that they have to be 100% correct every time, which means they are going to be a lot more reserved - which in a lot of situations will bring new dangers to them. Our administration is also emboldening thugs. Our administration plans to bring in more unknowns, that if not radicalized when they get here, many will become radicalized.

All combined - I choose to exercise my right to own and bear arms.


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## Hopin4aboat

Y'all do remember this is an open forum, good and bad people watch this site, I sure wouldn't have such distinguishing charastics on my truck and boat and say I won't do anything if I'm robbed. That's just asking for the pcola shitbags to hit you the next time Your fillin up the boat. Hopefully you never get hit!


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## AndyS

Hey, LimitOut .... not tryin' to start anything with you, but didja ever consider that maybe everybody's not as much of a Billy Badass as you are? Predators tend to prey on the weak. I'm 55 years old & been smoking for 30 years .... I'll be the first to tell you, "I'm not as good as I once was."














Anyways .... why should I stand there & try to duke it out with some 6'4 275 pound dude swinging a beer bottle at me? _(I know a guy that happened to ... lost half a dozen teeth, had his ribs kicked in, concussion, mouth wired shut for six months, buncha other stuff ...he still takes pain pills ten years later) 
_
And unless you're some kinda Chuck Norris you're probably gonna go down against three or four assailants ... and once you're down, all bets are off.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

FenderBender said:


> Limit- serious question- to you, what constitutes a serious enough situation that you would use a gun to defend yourself or someone you love?
> 
> Say you come home from work to the door kicked and there's a guy with a knife to your wife/daughter/mothers throat raping her. You have a pistol in the dresser drawer. What would you do?
> 
> Extreme situation, but in this sad, perverse world we live in not outside the realm of possibility. Where would you draw the line and use a weapon to protect yourself or someone you love?


dude that's a huge what if??? 

I would want to kill the bastard of course!!! but I don't own a gun so... I'd call 911 

I see where your going with that... My Faith in La La land has blinded me from the world and its what ifs... but I have faith in the fact that it wont happen... I honestly don't believe it will... and for those who do, well then get a gun.

im just not a * pro gun * type of guy... I don't see guns as protection as I do a threat... by personal experience


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## John B.

AndyS said:


> Hey, LimitOut .... didja ever consider that maybe everybody's not as much of a Billy Badass as you are? Predators tend to prey on the weak.
> 
> Anyways .... why should I stand there & try to duke it out with some 6'4 275 pound dude swinging a beer bottle at me? And unless you're some kinda Chuck Norris you're probably gonna go down against three or four assailants ... and once you're down, all bets are off.


I would say JMB made them equal... lol

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## JoeyWelch

Idiocy has no bounds.

But I do love to see someone expose himself for what he truly is.
Limit you are a comical little man.


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## markbxr400

Hopin4aboat said:


> Y'all do remember this is an open forum, good and bad people watch this site, I sure wouldn't have such distinguishing charastics on my truck and boat and say I won't do anything if I'm robbed. That's just asking for the pcola shitbags to hit you the next time Your fillin up the boat. Hopefully you never get hit!


Just for the record - I'm packing, and I know how to use my weapons. First shot will be to he groin . . . :2guns:


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## LIM-IT-OUT

jlw1972 said:


> Idiocy has no bounds.
> 
> But I do love to see someone expose himself for what he truly is.
> Limit you are a comical little man.


yea, 

I mean I don't expect people to agree with me we all live different lives and a gun from what Ive seen has never been a solution to any of my problems. sure there is the what if's and all... and that's a clear cut reason to own one in the most drastic of cases, but I find it a waste of money unless your looking to go hunting. 

when yall get a gun pointed at you by some piece of random sh*t or your best friend shot and killed you would see the bad side to having guns... then its not just all about you but what the other guy has more times then not the bad guy has his gun pointed already


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## LIM-IT-OUT

I guess Im an idiot for not owning a gun


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## Murphy's Law

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> I guess Im an idiot for not owning a gun


No dude, just you train of thought on the subject 

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## FenderBender

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> dude that's a huge what if???
> 
> I would want to kill the bastard of course!!! but I don't own a gun so... I'd call 911
> 
> I see where your going with that... My Faith in La La land has blinded me from the world and its what ifs... but I have faith in the fact that it wont happen... I honestly don't believe it will... and for those who do, well then get a gun.



Fair enough, to each his own. It's just ironic to me that the police that show up when you call 911 will most definitely shoot and kill the rapist if this is still going on when they arrive, or he runs toward them with the knife, etc. We rely on men with guns to protect us when we can't protect ourselves, to me or just makes logical sense to have the means and will to protect yourself and loved ones in the event the unthinkable happens and pray it never does. 

There are some big talkers on here, but I seriously doubt there is even one here who is looking for an excuse to shoot someone or cant wait to use their gun on a bad guy. It's just good people raised in a culture where we were taught to shoot growing up, and guns are just a tool. Something to be respected but not feared. I don't want to shoot anyone, but I can say without doubt I wouldn't lose a second of sleep or feel guilt if someone came into my wife or daughters bedroom at night with the intent to harm them and I killed them. 

I don't have guns because I live in fear, I don't live in fear because I do have guns and my family and I know how to use them. There are times to call 911, absolutely, but if someone is in your house calling 911 will get you killed.


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## Murphy's Law

Splittine said:


> To much dunbassery in this one for me. Yall boys have fun listening to Hillary-it-out tell you how guns are the devil. I'm out.


I'm with ya Chase. I just can't read anymore. Unsubscribed

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## LIM-IT-OUT

FenderBender said:


> Fair enough, to each his own. It's just ironic to me that the police that show up when you call 911 will most definitely shoot and kill the rapist if this is still going on when they arrive, or he runs toward them with the knife, etc. We rely on men with guns to protect us when we can't protect ourselves, to me or just makes logical sense to have the means and will to protect yourself and loved ones in the event the unthinkable happens and pray it never does.
> 
> There are some big talkers on here, but I seriously doubt there is even one here who is looking for an excuse to shoot someone or cant wait to use their gun on a bad guy. It's just good people raised in a culture where we were taught to shoot growing up, and guns are just a tool. Something to be respected but not feared. I don't want to shoot anyone, but I can say without doubt I wouldn't lose a second of sleep or feel guilt if someone came into my wife or daughters bedroom at night with the intent to harm them and I killed them.
> 
> I don't have guns because I live in fear, I don't live in fear because I do have guns and my family and I know how to use them. There are times to call 911, absolutely, but if someone is in your house calling 911 will get you killed.


 
I get the Protection thing, really I do.

But guns have killed my bud and almost killed me... I don't like them, for protection yall have convinced me otherwise as to them being a good thing. So back to the OP whats a good gun?

a gun killed my friend, its been hard for me to get over...


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## FenderBender

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> I get the Protection thing, really I do.
> 
> But guns have killed my bud and almost killed me... I don't like them, for protection yall have convinced me otherwise as to them being a good thing. So back to the OP whats a good gun?



If you want a good one for protection in the house, like the situation described above, a Remington 870 express in 12 gauge. 

Cheap, reliable, won't shoot through 4 walls and kill someone sleeping on the other side of the house, doesn't require a great deal of accuracy in the dark, and a pump shotgun has a distinctive ratchet sound that is a universal language to bad people from any country. They might think twice about what they are doing and run.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

sorry if I busted anyone's bubble but Im torn on them being good and bad and they are both... just seems like nobody here has seen the bad or has seen it like I have...

between a gun to the head and a dead friend its not like you want to jump right on the band wagon and support having GUNS around


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## John B.

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> sorry if I busted anyone's bubble but Im torn on them being good and bad and they are both... just seems like nobody here has seen the bad or has seen it like I have...


They are a tool, nothing more, nothing less. The only thing that stops a bad person with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

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## pappastratos

Limit said " _I wouldn't want to ever pull the trigger on a person so I don't touch a gun" _that is ok if you feel that way_. _I don't want to pull a trigger on a person either, BUT [email protected]$#N will I sit in a place while a terrorist walks around killing people like what happened in Paris. The second he (or she) stops to reload their gun, I will ask for forgiveness & pull the trigger. I am far from a bad @#$ , but 75% of the people on this forum would really do the same.


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## Boat-Dude

...


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## _Backwoods

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> a gun killed my friend, its been hard for me to get over...


Im sorry you lost a friend but a gun did not kill him. A person killed your friend. Guns are inanimate odjects, they can't "do". You seem to have blaming a piece of metal and not the person that did the action. But lets look at it your way just for S&G, people lose their lives everyday to knives, cars, airplanes but I'm willing to bet you don't group those in like you do guns...why is that?


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## MrFish

> a gun killed my friend


Sorry for the loss of your friend, but a gun was used. A person killed your friend.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

MrFish said:


> Sorry for the loss of your friend, but a gun was used. A person killed your friend.


yea but toe to toe that guy would have got his ass kicked:yes:


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## MrFish

Pappastratos, throw out a list of which guns you're considering. Or pm me. If I have one on the list, you're welcome to try it out and see if it might be something you like.


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## LIM-IT-OUT

_Backwoods said:


> Im sorry you lost a friend but a gun did not kill him. A person killed your friend. Guns are inanimate odjects, they can't "do". You seem to have blaming a piece of metal and not the person that did the action. But lets look at it your way just for S&G, people lose their lives everyday to knives, cars, airplanes but I'm willing to bet you don't group those in like you do guns...why is that?


 
I see where you're going with that. the fact is the person who killed my friend was only 15years old and he used a gun to take what he wanted... without the gun this kid could have not done what he did. at that time my friend Eric and I were 20 and 21... I joined the Navy months later....


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## Boat-Dude

The problem is we do not live in a perfect utopia, man is flawed, the world is ugly at times. There is no regulation or law that can be passed to keep crazy/fanatical folks from getting guns/weapons. If people want to crawl up into a ball and wait for the police to come and save them that is their choice but I be damned if I am going to lay down and die. I am a big supporter of the Police but they can not be everywhere all the time. It is up to you to try and protect your loved ones the best you can.


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## _Backwoods

LIM-IT-OUT said:


> I see where you're going with that. the fact is the person who killed my friend was only 15years old and he used a gun to take what he wanted... without the gun this kid could have not done what he did. at that time my friend Eric and I were 20 and 21... I joined the Navy months later....


The fact you skirted around the answer proves the way you think is hypocritical. If a person wants to take someone's life they will do it any way possible.


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## Reel fishing girl 86

Reading all these comments has made me want to weigh in my two senses. No I don't own a gun however I do believe that if more people carried guns as protection a lot less people would die . Take what happened in California ( which I'm from ) we have a strick gun law out there but if maybe 3 or 4 people that were in that room would have had a gun they could have taken out those terrorist and maybe saved some lives. Yes people do abuse the right to own a gun .but if my house was getting broken in to I would shoot the intruder . That is my safe place and if my family is in danger I'm going to do what I have to do to protect them anyway I can . Will I try and kill the guy no maybe injure him enough to where I can DE arm him and hold him till the police get there . With this being said if the prep was to run away i wouldn't shoot because my life isn't in danger anymore. People have to be smart . I have read so many case in school ( major criminal justice ) of people trying to use personal defense to get out of going to jail and yes sometimes it is hard to decide what is defense and what isn't. Bottom line if u want to own a gun own one. I would love to but I know how my other half feels about that and I respect him . Does having a gun make me feel safer in this world yes it would . Do I live in fear everyday? Not everyday but sometimes I wonder when the next terrorist attack will be and will I be involved things like that . The world is a scary place there are a lot of people out there that don't like us . I'm not trying to start an argument this is just my two sence


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## markbxr400

Pier-Dude said:


> The problem is we do not live in a perfect utopia, man is flawed, the world is ugly at times. There is no regulation or law that can be passed to keep crazy/fanatical folks from getting guns/weapons. If people want to crawl up into a ball and wait for the police to come and save them that is their choice but I be damned if I am going to lay down and die. I am a big supporter of the Police but they can not be everywhere all the time. It is up to you to try and protect your loved ones the best you can.


Police chiefs all across the nation are coming out saying the same thing. Including the police chief of the nation's capital. And including democrat police chiefs.

They know the same thing - as hard as they can try, they can't be everywhere at once, and they can't get there fast enough if someone is he77 bent to start shooting into a crowd.


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## J0nesi

I have been wanting to do the same but I have only fired a couple of friends hand guns. my question is where can I go rent guns to try a bunch of different handguns to see what I like?


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## John B.

J0nesi said:


> I have been wanting to do the same but I have only fired a couple of friends hand guns. my question is where can I go rent guns to try a bunch of different handguns to see what I like?


Oak ridge gun range in gulf breeze. 

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## Boat-Dude

J0nesi said:


> I have been wanting to do the same but I have only fired a couple of friends hand guns. my question is where can I go rent guns to try a bunch of different handguns to see what I like?


*

Pensacola Indoor Shooting Range*
6428 Pensacola Blvd, 
Pensacola, FL 32505
(850) 474-4867

*Oak Ridge Gun Range*
1889 Cowen Rd, 
Gulf Breeze, FL 32563
(850) 932-5200


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## Runned Over

The gun didn't kill your friend.....


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## welldoya

Lim-It-Out, I am honestly astounded after reading your posts.
It's great that you try to see the good in people and all that but honestly, there are people out there that will kill you for no reason. And it's getting worse everyday.
I'm not planning on being a hero but if it comes down to him or me, I'm planning on giving it my best shot.


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