# Swamped Boat



## Yellow Boat (Jan 1, 2010)

Is it still the law in FL. that a boat operator is resposible for any damage that his boat wake causes to some one elses boat ??? Because me and my 16 ft. aluminum bass tracker boat while fishing 4 miles up Blackwater river today,, had a 22 ft. center console, came by me and throwed such a big wake he swamped my boat. Thank goodness for a good bildge pump and a good life jacket. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WHERE ME ????


----------



## PAWGhunter (Feb 3, 2010)

I would find that guy....then you know the rest.


----------



## smooth seas (Feb 23, 2010)

im pissed off right now, i would locate that boat, might could tell it to the fwc and they should do something about it. But i would have a come a part on him and teach him a lesson. I can't stand those people that will drive by you and not ever slow down, sometimes i want to just go run them down and tell them just how i feel.


----------



## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Did he even attempt to control his wake? I think that I would radio the marine patrol. I was behind this crazy woman in a big cabin cruiser going under the Bay Bridge early spring. There were several small fishing boats along side the bridge fenders. She didn't bother to throttle back and left those poor guys holding on to the bridge. She did a beauty pageant wave and kept going oblivious to the guys that she swamped. That was one of the top dumbest moves on the water that I've seen in a long time.


----------



## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

I'd get a Bigger Boat! 
I mean if he was pulling a Big Wake, he obviously was going slow, (or slowing down). But had he trimmed his motor up, he wouldn't have caused such a big wake. 
Too many inexperienced idiots on the water nowadays. 
The faster you go, with the proper trim, the less wake you're pulling. 
I personally do not want a boat to slow down while passing me by. So long as he isn't right on top of me. But that's just me saying.


----------



## tips n tails (Mar 2, 2011)

what color bass tracker do you have? red?


----------



## countryjwh (Nov 20, 2007)

The boat operator is responsible for his own wake and the damage it causes.


----------



## a (Oct 2, 2007)

were you in a no wake zone?


----------



## lightchop (Jan 15, 2009)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> I'd get a Bigger Boat!
> I mean if he was pulling a Big Wake, he obviously was going slow, (or slowing down). But had he trimmed his motor up, he wouldn't have caused such a big wake.
> Too many inexperienced idiots on the water nowadays.
> The faster you go, with the proper trim, the less wake you're pulling.
> I personally do not want a boat to slow down while passing me by. So long as he isn't right on top of me. But that's just me saying.


 
Exactly. Too many boaters slow down when they see other boats in the river. This causes a greater wake. If you are running at a safe speed at a safe distance to other boaters, keep on going.


----------



## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

Unless it has changed recently, that operator has been involved in an accident (w/property damage if you suffered even a small loss like drowned crickets even) and has FLED THE SCENE OF A VESSEL ACCIDENT! This holds even more weight as boaters required by law to stop and render aid NO MATTER WHAT to another vessel in distress!

You can call FWC and get a report taken.

Brent


----------



## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

> But had he trimmed his motor up, he wouldn't have caused such a big wake.


At one point in transition from displacement to plane this is true. But trimmed up raises the bow which increases wake.

There are speeds when pinning the bow to the water is the least wake...

But yes... proper trim for the speed traveled mitigates the wake, at that speed, better than a different state of motor trim.

Brent


----------



## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

hogdogs said:


> But trimmed up raises the bow which increases wake.
> 
> Brent


That's only true during take-off, not from an abrupt slowing from high speed. Sure, your bow will lift, but no where near the height it would if trimmed up and starting off, and way less the wake.

But if YB was 4 miles up Blackwater River, then I would have to call "inexperience played alot in this incident". That far up BWR, it's only 2 to 3 car lanes wide, mostly 2 cars wide. And alot of blind curves. 
Not to mention Half of the river width is shallow sandbars, reducing the navigatable water to 1 lane wide. I'm sorry for your experience in this incident, and glad no-one was injured. But I'd chalk it up to experience. 
I've been up there many times, in small 12' boats to 25'. The larger the craft, the swifter water and narrow path, the harder it is to control. (fighting the current, logs, slow power, other boats, depth and width). Since SRC has banned skiing that far up BWR, they should have considered a boat size limit as well.


----------



## C-monsters (Mar 28, 2008)

hogdogs said:


> Unless it has changed recently, that operator has been involved in an accident (w/property damage if you suffered even a small loss like drowned crickets even) and has FLED THE SCENE OF A VESSEL ACCIDENT! This holds even more weight as boaters required by law to stop and render aid NO MATTER WHAT to another vessel in distress!
> 
> You can call FWC and get a report taken.
> 
> Brent


A little dramatic don't you think? 

The Florida statute:

327.33 Reckless or careless operation of vessel.— 
(1) It is unlawful to operate a vessel in a reckless manner. A person is guilty of reckless operation of a vessel who operates any vessel, or manipulates any water skis, aquaplane, or similar device, in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property at a speed or in a manner as to endanger, or likely to endanger, life or limb, or damage the property of, or injure any person. Reckless operation of a vessel includes, but is not limited to, a violation of s. 327.331(6). Any person who violates a provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. 
(2) Any person operating a vessel upon the waters of this state shall operate the vessel in a reasonable and prudent manner, having regard for other waterborne traffic, posted speed and wake restrictions, and all other attendant circumstances so as not to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person. The failure to operate a vessel in a manner described in this subsection constitutes careless operation. *However, vessel wake and shoreline wash resulting from the reasonable and prudent operation of a vessel shall, absent negligence, not constitute damage or endangerment to property.* Any person who violates the provisions of this subsection commits a noncriminal violation as defined in s. 775.08. 
(3) Each person operating a vessel upon the waters of this state shall comply with the navigation rules. 
(a) A person whose violation of the navigation rules results in a boating accident, but whose violation did not constitute reckless operation of a vessel, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. 
(b) A person whose violation of the navigation rules does not result in a boating accident and does not constitute reckless operation of a vessel is guilty of a noncriminal violation as defined in s. 775.08. 
(c) Law enforcement vessels may deviate from the navigational rules when such diversion is necessary to the performance of their duties and when such deviation may be safely accomplished. (4) Unless otherwise provided in this chapter, the ascertainment of fault in vessel operations and boating accidents shall be determined according to the navigation rules. 


I am by no means saying the center console in the original post was acting "prudent and reasonable", especially in a narrow river. Sounds like they were in the wrong. But to assume any wake damage constitutes negligence on the part of a vessel operator and therefore responsibility is not correct. That would have to be proven in court. Boats are not expected to slow to idle speed to avoid throwing a wake on a moron fishing the center channel of a busy bridge in a jon boat. That operator is also responsible for deciding where to tie up his boat to fish.


----------



## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

"Reasonable" is the imparative word. Any wake thrown close enuff to a small vessel that swamps it won't likely be deemed "reasonable"... I am only going on what sheriff deps., and fwc/fmp officers have told me. THey are the ones who make the decision in the field and turn it in for prosecution. 

If the state opts to drop it than fine.

A 16 foot aluminum bass boat that isn't overloaded isn't easily swamped by a reasonable capt. driving at a reasonable speed passing at a reasonable distance throwing a reasonable wake.

We ain't talking about a 12 foot skiff sporting a 2hp zuke laden with 500 pounds of gear and occupants.

Brent


----------



## C-monsters (Mar 28, 2008)

I agree. You can be liable for your wake if you are negligent, I just don't think the blanket statement that any damage done by your wake, no matter the circumstance, is valid. I see it written on the forum all the time, and do not think it is true based on the FL statute.


----------



## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

hogdogs said:


> Unless it has changed recently, that operator has been involved in an accident (w/property damage if you suffered even a small loss like drowned crickets even) and has FLED THE SCENE OF A VESSEL ACCIDENT! This holds even more weight as boaters required by law to stop and render aid NO MATTER WHAT to another vessel in distress!
> 
> You can call FWC and get a report taken.
> 
> Brent



This. You HAVE to report accidents on the water.


----------



## floater1 (Oct 31, 2007)

what was the make and name on the boat i was up there saturday afternoon and it was absolutely crazy smaller boats,jet skis out in the middle of the river no common courtesy as to move to one side or the outher out of the way so people could get up river cause they would be right in the middle of the river.blackwater is only so wide if you were one of these boats trying to get up or down the river you have only so much room to get by


----------



## NICHOLAS (Oct 18, 2007)

Five-0_Bulletproof said:


> Since SRC has banned skiing that far up BWR, they should have considered a boat size limit as well.


Agree 100%. A 22ft center console has no business going up blackwater river. There is way to much boat traffic and way to little river. It is flat out dangerous! I was run nearly into the bank last weekend by a man in what looked to be a 20-23' cc who came flying around a corner sliding with no where to go but into me. He never let off the throttle. Last Sunday there was a 22ft cc IN THE TREES! Not one inch of the boat was even in the water! I have heard of 3 boat crashes in the last 3 weekends! The river is flat out of control. There needs to be a size limit as well as a speed limit enforced before someone gets killed, or worse runs over someone else. I have been running that river since I could drive a boat. Now, if I go, it is only during the week. Too many IDIOTS out there on the weekends.


----------



## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> This. You HAVE to report accidents on the water.


By no way condoning what the CC did, but the quote is exactly correct. You really need to contact authority when it happens. Blogging on a forum is not the answer. Take the action to get some response.


----------



## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

Yellow Boat said:


> WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WHERE ME ????


I would have turned my bow towards the wake so I wouldn't have swamped and then gone back to fishing.


----------



## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

X 2 


dreamweaver21 said:


> i would have turned my bow towards the wake so i wouldn't have swamped and then gone back to fishing.


----------



## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

Well first of all you are responsible for your own wake. Second I dont think a 16 aluminum boat will catch a 22ft center console, plus I dont know about you but when im on a river I always carry a fire arm, So I dont think i would want to get shot.

But seriously you were fishing the most played on boated on river in the county on memorial day weekend. You had to of known that this river was going to be a real busy one. Im surprised it didnt happen to you more then once.


----------



## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

C-monsters said:


> I agree. You can be liable for your wake if you are negligent, I just don't think the blanket statement that any damage done by your wake, no matter the circumstance, is valid. I see it written on the forum all the time, and do not think it is true based on the FL statute.


Somewhere in that big book of laws is something that says you have to be in a seaworthy craft. A jon boat that can't sustain the wake of a 21 center console running at regular speed probably won't pass the seaworthy test.


----------



## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

> Somewhere in that big book of laws is something that says you have to be in a seaworthy craft. A jon boat that can't sustain the wake of a 21 center console running at regular speed probably won't pass the seaworthy test.


Negative!!! I can be in a canoe fully loaded to maximum and the wake of a vessel still cannot compromise my vessel nor my safety...

Been there done that... I ran a 12 foot skiff with 2hp Zuke for years... I have as much right to use my legal vessel to enjoy the resources of my state as anyone in a "Bagel Barge"...

Brent


----------



## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

hogdogs said:


> Negative!!! I can be in a canoe fully loaded to maximum and the wake of a vessel still cannot compromise my vessel nor my safety...
> 
> Been there done that... I ran a 12 foot skiff with 2hp Zuke for years... I have as much right to use my legal vessel to enjoy the resources of my state as anyone in a "Bagel Barge"...
> 
> Brent


Boatowners are responsible for their wake. However, I believe *Xanadu*'s operative word is "_*seaworthy*_". A 12 foot skiff loaded to the maximum with gunwales awash would not be considered a seaworthy vessel.

If by "loaded to the maximum" you meant within the limits of the USCG/NMMA decal, then your statement would be accurate.


----------



## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes... that is, in fact, what I meant... And I do not need the sticker to know seaworth... My skiff was a classy ol' late '60's early 70's hull void of any such yeller sticker...

Me and my little boat could be found hammerin' the grass flats in early morning or late afternoon redfishin' and drifting/trolling the Indian River by day...

Brent


----------



## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Yep, no sticker here either...


----------



## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

hogdogs said:


> Yes... that is, in fact, what I meant... And I do not need the sticker to know seaworth... My skiff was a classy ol' late '60's early 70's hull void of any such yeller sticker...
> 
> Me and my little boat could be found hammerin' the grass flats in early morning or late afternoon redfishin' and drifting/trolling the Indian River by day...
> 
> Brent


Orion is correct and what I was saying is that if your boat can't handle the normal wake of a 21' center console on a smooth river then, by definition, I don't believe you're seaworthy. A person's skill in handling can overcome a lack of seaworthiness, but if you're just minding your own business fishing in a jon boat and another little boat goes by and you sink then you shouldn't have put yourself in that position.


----------



## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Xanadu said:


> Orion is correct and what I was saying is that if your boat can't handle the normal wake of a 21' center console on a smooth river then, by definition, I don't believe you're seaworthy. A person's skill in handling can overcome a lack of seaworthiness, but if you're just minding your own business fishing in a jon boat and another little boat goes by and you sink then you shouldn't have put yourself in that position.


I've been knocked ass over tits in my boat and had my property damaged by ski boats and 21+ footers in the bayou. The boat I am talking about is a perfectly capable 16 foot flats skiff.

We can argue about "seaworthy" and legality all day. What I think is missing on the water and in this conversation's take on it is basic politeness/decency. Watch your wake and be careful around other boats, especially if it's crowded. Do you (this is the "people in general" you) cut people off in your car? Do you drive too close on purpose to people in the bike lane? Do you deliberately bump people in hallways or skip line at the grocery store? Do you wave guns at people who do things like that to you? 

Why would you act any differently on the water?

Same principle, but it's all fun and games and idle conjecture until you sink somebody or ram into them.


----------



## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> I've been knocked ass over tits in my boat and had my property damaged by ski boats and 21+ footers in the bayou. The boat I am talking about is a perfectly capable 16 foot flats skiff.
> 
> We can argue about "seaworthy" and legality all day. What I think is missing on the water and in this conversation's take on it is basic politeness/decency. Watch your wake and be careful around other boats, especially if it's crowded. Do you (this is the "people in general" you) cut people off in your car? Do you drive too close on purpose to people in the bike lane? Do you deliberately bump people in hallways or skip line at the grocery store? Do you wave guns at people who do things like that to you?
> 
> ...


I'm by no means inciting less civility on the water than already exists and I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about a jon boat as my post clearly stated and that any boat that can be swamped by the normal running wake of a 21' center console isn't much of a vessel and certainly not one I'd put my family at risk in in a busy river. Clearly, the person who swamped you or anyone is an idiot deserving of a serious beating, but there's some personal responsibility and forward thinking required in boating so if you sink as a result of a 21' cc going by at normal speed then unless he ran up on you at 50mph within 20' and slung a wake at you from your stern then I'm of the opinion there's some shared responsibility. That's all. And, frankly, a guy in a little 21' cc shouldn't have to slow down around every corner because someone's sitting in the river in a jon boat on a busy weekend.


----------



## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

My understanding was you must be able to identify the driver of the boat!


----------



## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Xanadu said:


> I'm by no means inciting less civility on the water than already exists and I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about a jon boat as my post clearly stated and that any boat that can be swamped by the normal running wake of a 21' center console isn't much of a vessel and certainly not one I'd put my family at risk in in a busy river. Clearly, the person who swamped you or anyone is an idiot deserving of a serious beating, but there's some personal responsibility and forward thinking required in boating so if you sink as a result of a 21' cc going by at normal speed then unless he ran up on you at 50mph within 20' and slung a wake at you from your stern then I'm of the opinion there's some shared responsibility. That's all. And, frankly, a guy in a little 21' cc shouldn't have to slow down around every corner because someone's sitting in the river in a jon boat on a busy weekend.


I wasn't knocking you and I'm sure you are a polite person, but navigable waterways are public. People with registered boats have a right to use them. Everybody has made a mistake by creating a wake every now and then, but that doesn't make it right or good. 

I, for example, would really regret piloting my tiny 21CC and swamping somebody on a kayak, canoe, or smaller boat, or sinking them, or flipping them out, or accidentally destroying any of their equipment. I would stop and check on them, apologize. I've seen this same kind of stuff in the bay and on the bayous. Just because a person is on a bigger and faster boat doesn't mean he is right or a good steward. The same goes for smaller boats and their pilots, too. Maybe we all need to retake the boating test. 

That's just my humble opinion, though. Everybody lives in a glass house on this issue.


----------



## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

aroundthehorn said:


> I wasn't knocking you and I'm sure you are a polite person, but navigable waterways are public. People with registered boats have a right to use them. Everybody has made a mistake by creating a wake every now and then, but that doesn't make it right or good.
> 
> I, for example, would really regret piloting my tiny 21CC and swamping somebody on a kayak, canoe, or smaller boat, or sinking them, or flipping them out, or accidentally destroying any of their equipment. I would stop and check on them, apologize. I've seen this same kind of stuff in the bay and on the bayous. Just because a person is on a bigger and faster boat doesn't mean he is right or a good steward. The same goes for smaller boats and their pilots, too. Maybe we all need to retake the boating test.
> 
> That's just my humble opinion, though. Everybody lives in a glass house on this issue.


Yes, I agree. There is too much rude behavior everywhere these days and not just on the water. One thing, however, that does concern me is the ever growing number of tiny "boats" on the water. Paddleboards, skiffs, kayaks and tubes are seemingly everywhere and the waterways are a dangerous place to be on a tiny boat or even a larger one. People need to be aware of their surroundings and their wake, no doubt, but just because some idiot can make a tub of cardboard float in a puddle doesn't make it a seaworthy craft and, frankly, I see some complete morons with yaks and canoes and other unfit vessels crowded around places where boats have to make headway.

Sitting in a canoe in Alabama Pass or Destin or in between the legs of the bridge on Bob Sikes is not safe and a 50' boat throws a wake no matter how slow they're going.


----------



## Pinksnappertrapper (Dec 7, 2007)

I agree with you, but one thing "how does a 50' boat throw a wake no matter how slow they are going?" There are no wake zones those 50' boats have to go by, what do they do?


----------



## 20simmons sea skiff (Aug 20, 2010)

m 16 to boat motor


----------



## J Smithers (Jun 27, 2008)

I don't think there's a good solution for this issue. I agree 100% that a yak, canoe, 16 ft skiff and any other small boat has a "Right" to enjoy our public waterways. But on the same hand, I have the same "right" to enjoy the water in my 19ft bass boat. If the river is wide enough and deep enough I'm gonna run my boat at a decent speed and it's gonna create some wake - that's just part of it. I wish I could figure out a way to run wide open and create no wake - then the no wake zones would not slow me down a bit in tournaments. If you're on a public river and someone in a bigger boat comes by at a safe distance at a safe speed and you still get swamped then maybe its just not your day. I am not going to idle the whole time I'm on the river because there are people fishing around every turn - but that's just me. If the river is not wide enough for me to run safely then I will idle but on most of the rivers I fish it is plenty wide enough for me to run wide open all day long if I want to. I've been rocked a little by other boats' wake and I'm sure I've rocked a few boats but that is just part of being on the water.


----------



## SLICK75 (Sep 4, 2010)

Personally I was taught, no matter what size boat youre driving, when you come across a boat in the river you slow down until there is no wake. If youre in a lake or other large body you pay attention to your wake and you make sure you stay clear of smaller and stationary boats.
*
Screw legality, its common decent courtesy*. But I see it every time I go to Lake Jackson in Florala, I see it every time I get on Escambia, lower Yellow, and Blackwater Rivers. Some idiot with too much boat for the river, some self-absorbed ski-boat, or some immature idiot on a wave runner has to come flying through swamping boats and throwing people off balance and generally making a nuisance of themselves.

But its not their fault, its mine. I shouldnt be there fishing. I should wait until a day when nobody else is around. I should be able to afford a bigger boat. What kind of BS is THAT? All those comments Ive seen tell me exactly what kind of people are around here. Anything you people want to do should be ok because you have a bigger boat. Yep, common decent courtesy is a thing of the past and all I have to do to remind myself of that fact is come to this site. No shortage of Richard Craniums around here.


----------



## hogdogs (Apr 19, 2010)

> Orion is correct and what I was saying is that if your boat can't handle the normal wake of a 21' center console on a smooth river then, by definition, I don't believe you're seaworthy.


So why is "SEAWORTHY" a concern? This was a river boat in the river... I doubt the vessel operator (the op) would intentionally head out of the pass to face 3-5 foot seas...

As for boats and their wakes in no wake zones... Some vessels will, in fact, throw a noticeable wake even at idle... I have run a couple pretty big sportfishers that I would run with one engine in neutral and bump the other in and out of gear since idle on one screw was up around 3.5-4 knots. But there is a wording in the law that allows a vessel to make a wake without being cited for a violation...

It basically reads... Vessel must be operated at idle speed or at a speed that allows the operator to "maintain steerage". Some vessels simply cannot be safely operated at idle or even at a speed so slow that she isn't throwing a wake. From Jet Skis to tugs... some vessels just need more than idle to be safely operated.

Brent


----------

