# 1995 Johnson 225 oceanrunner compression?



## coolbluestreak

What is normal compression on a 1995 Johnson 225 oceanrunner, I'm looking at buying a boat with one and I could swear the guy said it has around 85-90 on all the cylinders, seems a little on the low side but if it's consistant I suppose its not too bad?


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## aroundthehorn

coolbluestreak said:


> What is normal compression on a 1995 Johnson 225 oceanrunner, I'm looking at buying a boat with one and I could swear the guy said it has around 85-90 on all the cylinders, seems a little on the low side but if it's consistant I suppose its not too bad?


That sounds low to me, but there is no way I would buy a motor without having it checked out by a Johnson mechanic. There are a couple who post here that could help you out. Wills Marine in Pensacola is also a good place to go.

I would call either of those places for your answer.

Edit: see you are in Alabama. I would give Wills Marine a call. Shane Livingston posts here as fish4life and works on Johnson motors. If he doesn't see this, send him a pm and I'm sure he can help.


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## Sequoiha

That is low compression, being even says it is a good motor with a lot a wear. Chances it will need an overhaul soon. By the way I am a Johnson evinrude tech as well.


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## addict620

*compression*

I'd like 105-115psi on that motor. I agree it is low. Wonder what the leak down is.


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## fish2day

I have a Johnson 200hp and I have checked the compression with two gauges and got different readings. One gauge showed 100-105lbs. The other gauge showed 85-90lbs. I would get it checked or check it myself. It could be OK depending on the gauge and the person checking it.


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## SHO-NUFF

Factory specs. are listed at around 100 psi new. 
Are you checking compression with the other 5 plugs out, so the engine can spin with out any load, or just pulling the plug on the cylinder you are testing?

These old Looper motors, with a good battery and cables, barely turn fast enough to generate a good start voltage to the coils. They have a 4 degree built in timing advance to get them cranked. Basically they crank on 2, and run on 6. 

Bullet proof motors, aside from the VRO system. Take it off and pre-mix the oil.
Also, a bad year for lower units, eat gears reguardless of how often you change the gear oil.
After 2000 plus hours on the powerhead, and 3 dead lowers, I have a 1987 lower that has done well. 
Simple design, and easy to work on, but the 6 carbs love the gas. It will get you home, even if its limping.


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## coolbluestreak

Hey guys, thanks for all the help/info!
Are there any tell tail signs that the lower unit gears are worn?

What approx cost of a overhaul of the powerhead, can they be freshend up up some new rings to up the compression or is there more to it?
I've had 2 stoke motorcycle and snowmobile engines apart before so I'm not too worried about doing some or all the work myself, granted I can't bore it out or anything like that.


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## addict620

The bottom port cylinder seems to often have the lowest compression reading. I see rebuild kits on ebay for around $700. As far as checking gear?? Look for metal in oil, maybe having to push thrttle past detent to grab forward or reverse. I have been through 3 of them an 2 ran awesome til they ate themselves.


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## coolbluestreak

Ok, well I think we're going to look at it again this afternoon, so let me get this right:I wanna do the compression check on the engine when it's cold and with all the spark plugs removed right?


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## SHO-NUFF

Pull the drain plug on the foot. It has a small magnet on the end of it. Metal "powder" is ok, but any type of slivers of shavings are not good. Grab the prop and pull/push it and see how much end play the shaft has. It will have some, but should not be excessive. 
I think OMC had some bad castings on the lower units causing an alignment problem. Or maybe soft gears. My failures have never give any warning. Just go Boom, and usually knock a hole in the housing. I am surprised that they last as long as they do, considering how much horsepower is going thru such a small set of gears and turning a heavy stainless prop.

Just run the engine as is. If it has enough compression to fire all the cylinders. If you get into a rebuild, its about 100 bucks a hole cost wise, if you need new pistons. I doubt you will have to bore the block, unless it broke a ring and scored the cylinder. If it did, you can just bore the one bad hole. 
If the crank and bearings look good, you can get by cheap. Rings, gaskets and Gel-Seal. Be sure and check the bore size on all cylinders, so you get the right sized rings. 
You will need a thin wall socket to remove the flywheel nut. There is also a drift pin in the block halves you will have to drive out to get the case a part. Get a manual, it is an easy engine to overhaul.


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## SHO-NUFF

Yes, all plugs out. I usually leave the key off so it won"t fire and jump the starter solenoid to turn the engine over.


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## coolbluestreak

Well we did go back and look at it on friday but he didn't have time for a compression check so we went back today, it has 88-90 psi on all the cylinders but the bottom left only had 70, the batteries were dieing/dead so he said he'd install some new ones tomorrow and then we could test that cylinder again when I get off work. It barely had enough juice to turn the windless over so I guess there's a little hope that the low compression was caused by dead batteries not being able to turn the engine over fast enough.


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## SHO-NUFF

Bottom Port {#6} cylinder @70 PSI is too low, if it does not come up with a hot battery. The compression on the other cylinders are not that great either. Sounds like time for an overhaul. But if you can get a good deal on the boat, go for it and rebuild the engine. Then you will know what you have hanging on the back of it to get you home. 

It is common for the #6 cylinder to have the lowest compression. By design, the engine has some cooling problems and seem to affect #6 the most. It runs hotter than the other cylinders. 
Usually, the piston ring locator pin, or dowel, lifts out of the ring land, and scores the cylinder wall. Or, it comes completely out and allows the ring to rotate on the piston where the ring end hangs on the exhaust port and breaks, thus the low compression. 

If the cylinder is scored, it might be able to be bored oversize and you can just bore the one hole and buy an oversized piston. You don't need to bore all 6 if they measure out with in specs, like you do an auto engine. The oversize piston weighs the same as a standard piston. so nothing is out of balance. Worse case, you might have to have a sleeve put in the cylinder and will be at standard bore again. 
An oversize piston is about 90 bucks, a standard is about 65 bucks. You can get them up to .030 oversize. You won't know until you get it apart. 

I would recommend replacing all the pistons. And rebuild all the Carbs also. A lean fuel condition, being this engine mixes the oil with the gas before the carb for lubrication will cause a failure also. 

If you really like the boat, try and negotiate a price with the seller for the cost of replacing or rebuilding the powerhead.


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## SHO-NUFF

Bottom Port {#6} cylinder @70 PSI is too low, if it does not come up with a hot battery. The compression on the other cylinders are not that great either. Sounds like time for an overhaul. But if you can get a good deal on the boat, go for it and rebuild the engine. Then you will know what you have hanging on the back of it to get you home. 

It is common for the #6 cylinder to have the lowest compression. By design, the engine has some cooling problems and seem to affect #6 the most. It runs hotter than the other cylinders. 
Usually, the piston ring locator pin, or dowel, lifts out of the ring land, and scores the cylinder wall. Or, it comes completely out and allows the ring to rotate on the piston where the ring end hangs on the exhaust port and breaks, thus the low compression. 

If the cylinder is scored, it might be able to be bored oversize and you can just bore the one hole and buy an oversized piston. You don't need to bore all 6 if they measure out with in specs, like you do an auto engine. The oversize piston weighs the same as a standard piston. so nothing is out of balance. Worse case, you might have to have a sleeve put in the cylinder and will be at standard bore again. 
An oversize piston is about 90 bucks, a standard is about 65 bucks. You can get them up to .030 oversize. You won't know until you get it apart. 

I would recommend replacing all the pistons. And rebuild all the Carbs also. A lean fuel condition, being this engine mixes the oil with the gas before the carb for lubrication will cause a failure also. 

If you really like the boat, try and negotiate a price with the seller for the cost of replacing or rebuilding the powerhead.


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## coolbluestreak

The price on the boat is good, it books for over 12k and he's asking $6500, he's getting divorced and needs the money. 
With that said, I don't want to have to buy new motor and spend 12k after all. 
Do the crank and rod bearing in these things fair pretty well?


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## SHO-NUFF

Yes, The crank and rod Bearings should be fine. The Crank bearings are ball bearings, the rod bearings are "caged" roller bearing halves. Just look for discoloration and pitting during your inspection and replace as needed. There is a small oil hole in the case that feeds the top [flywheel end] crank bearing in the block. Make sure it is clean.

KEEP THE ROD CAPS MATCHED TO THE ROD THEY CAME OFF OF. There should be index marks so they go back on the rod in the right direction. Just snug the rod bolts. Take a sharp scribe, o-ring picker, or sharp pencil and see if the rod caps are square with the rod where they meet on the outside. Where the rod cap meets the rod. There should be no lip, or "hang" when you drag across the mating surfaces. If so, loosen rod bolts and try again. It is not hard as it seems, but its critical. Take your time, and check again after the final torque. 

You said you have 2-stroke experience. You should do fine for a rebuild. Its just a big weed eater engine. Again, Buy a factory or Clymer manual and I doubt you will spend over 1K to overhaul worse case.


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## TheCaptKen

If you do purchase the boat, why not do a decarboning on the engine before tearing into anything. I've seen the rings just coke up and a good decarboning with something like Techron will do the trick. The compression will never read high on those engines due to the gear reduction starters. They just barely spin fast enough for the stator to fire the coils anyway.


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## aroundthehorn

coolbluestreak said:


> The price on the boat is good, it books for over 12k and he's asking $6500, he's getting divorced and needs the money.
> With that said, I don't want to have to buy new motor and spend 12k after all.
> Do the crank and rod bearing in these things fair pretty well?


Money is money, as it were. One can't really trust anybody now, and jmho this especially applies to those selling boats. (Maybe you already had a mechanic look at it?)

Like you said...what is the point of buying a motor that you don't trust from the beginning (this was a really important issue to me, because I'm new to saltwater fishing) or having to spend thousands on a replacement motor if the old one burns up? It's hard to resist a good price, though.

The suggestion about buying the Clymer/Seloc manual is a really good one.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe

A prepurchase inspection by a competent and qualified repair facility is the best money you will spend on a boat!!!!
It's great the you have some knowledge of engines but there is so much more to inspect than just compression.


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## aroundthehorn

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> A prepurchase inspection by a competent and qualified repair facility is the best money you will spend on a boat!!!!
> It's great the you have some knowledge of engines but there is so much more to inspect than just compression.


Word up. 100 bucks vs. $10k for a new-to-me motor.


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## coolbluestreak

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> A prepurchase inspection by a competent and qualified repair facility is the best money you will spend on a boat!!!!


What is all inspected during a prepurchase inspection?


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## aroundthehorn

Usually, it's a pretty thorough inspection, like a mechanic you trust looking at a used car for you.

Oil, lubrication system, lower unit, fuel system, compression, plugs, etc. They should run the motor on the water to see how well it gets in and out of the hole and whatnot, too.

Compression is only one thing to worry about. Sorry to keep replying, but I bought a boat recently so I've gone through all of this. Believe me, you don't want to be out in the Gulf with a motor that you don't trust because it will eat at your brain and make your trips miserable.


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## kanaka

More to the deal than just the motor. Hull, wiring, electronics, trailer, fiberglass gas tank being dissolved by E-10.


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## coolbluestreak

I purchased to boat yesterday, the guy got a new compression tester and we checked it again. It read 100 on all cylinders save the 6th was just over 90psi.


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## aroundthehorn

Hope it works out well!

Kanaka's post and his sig quotation (especially) are right on. 

Owning a boat and working on it yourself is indeed a progressive discovery of your own ignorance.


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## MGlover54

aroundthehorn said:


> ..it will eat at your brain...


ZoMbIeS?!?!?!?!?

:w00t:


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## Lil Skeet

I had the same motor. One good thing I can say is that it always ran. It drank fuel like gas was free and # 6 cylinder was 10 psi less than others. I still have the sealoc manual if you need it.


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## coolbluestreak

Lil Skeet said:


> I had the same motor. One good thing I can say is that it always ran. It drank fuel like gas was free and # 6 cylinder was 10 psi less than others. I still have the sealoc manual if you need it.


 I seem to hear that its a good motor a lot, that gives me a good feeling.
The fuel eating is a worrying me a little(have been out yet) but, since it will be used for diving mostly, I hope its not too bad on the wallet. If I were doing a lot of fishing and trolling I'd be really worried.


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## Greno

I have a 1994 175, which is basically the same. Have the same issues with mine and it always goes if you give it gas. Rebuild the carbs with factory kits. I had a needle valve from an aftermarket kit that the PO put in come apart and jam the float open in the carb. It was a little hard to get going pouring fuel/oil out the foot, but made it home fine.


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## oxbeast1210

*boat*

Any way you would be willing to post pics.
i'm just curious about what this boat looks like it
if not that's cool too


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## coolbluestreak

Yeah I'll post a pic, they're here on my phone so let me figure this out.


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## coolbluestreak

Here it is.


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## coolbluestreak

She needs a good polish but for $6500 I think I got a pretty good dive boat. One thing I'm woundering about now is the water pump, it didn't seem to have a lot of water coming out the pisser on the motor, so yesterday I replaced the impeller even though the guy said it was in good shape(it was) and it still didn't have a lot of pressure, so today I got the whole rebuild kit and installed it, still not a lot of pressure. Is that normal for this motor? The po put a little 90deg elbow on it, I guess to help make it more visable.


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## oxbeast1210

I learned thanks to Mglover is that not all ear muffs are the same .
The kind i was using at first is the kind that plugs into the side of one of the muff ears the water pressure coming out of the pisser was weak on almost any motor i hooked it up to. I bought the one he recommended at Walmart.it has the hose threads at the top of the device then has two hosed that go into each of the ears. this made a huge difference for me and makes the motor piss like it does in the water.
might not be your problem but worth looking into 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SeaSense-Dual-Flow-Motor-Flusher/10086721
that is what i have now i think ur using what I used to have


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## oxbeast1210

Nice ride by the way !


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## coolbluestreak

oxbeast1210 said:


> i think ur using what I used to have


 I think you are right, crap, I just bought them


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## coolbluestreak

oxbeast1210 said:


> Nice ride by the way !


 Thanks, She's got a lot of potential!
We didn't realy need to buy a boat right now but I was looked at it about 2 months ago and kind of had it in the back of my mind, then the guy dropped the price and we had to have it. it needs some elbow grease to bring back the luster but it should be fun and a adventure at the same time. I love to tinker so this one fits the bill.


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## oxbeast1210

It might not be your problem and I'm far from a mechanic 
just speaking from my experience


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## oxbeast1210

My wife and i have been thinking about getting into Diving when my knee fully recovers 
its a pretty expensive hobby aint it?


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## coolbluestreak

Yes it is, the money spends so fast you don't even miss it..........I've spent about 12k+ since June, inc the boat of course.
It is awesome though, the first time spearfishing is where you get hooked, my wife wouldn't give me my gun back, so needless to say I got a new one. I have a couple buddys that got all thier gear for less than $500, so just shop around a little. There are some good deals out there and then there are some REALLY good deals. We got our stuff new, not top of the line other than our Scubapro BCD's, but our aqualung titan reg's from divepros work great. I know a lot of ppl on here do biz with MBT but Kurtis and the other staff at Divepros have never done us wrong...ever!!!
If you go through the class make sure you get MarkHSaltz, he's a cool guy and I hope to get him out on our boat soon.


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## oxbeast1210

Thanks for the advice won't really get serious about looking into it till my knee is 100% but thanks again


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## SHO-NUFF

The "Pee Indicator" should be attached with a large plastic nut. 13/16, 7/8 or something like that at the middle of the lower cowling. Unscrew the Nut and remove the pee nozzle. Crank engine on the muffs with nozzle removed for a minute to flush the port, and clean out the nozzle itself with a paperclip. I bet some kind of crud will come out of it, sand, shells ect.

It should have a really strong stream of water. You can point the nozzle either to the port or starboard side, when you put it back on. Just hand tighten the retaining nut, so you can clean it on the water, if in doubt of the waterpump working.


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## SHO-NUFF

Great looking Boat. The old Pro Lines are good boats, but heavy boats. And that old Johnson Looper, loves gas, but tough as Hell. Keep the RPMS less than 4000/4200 RPMs on plane. It will take ya longer to get there but save a ton on fuel economy.
On my similar sized boat with the same Engine, playing with the trim tabs, tilt/trim and RPMS, I could get almost 5 more Gallons per hour running 5 MPH slower, according to my flo-scan.


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## coolbluestreak

SHO-NUFF said:


> according to my flo-scan.


What is your mpg and gph at a approx rpm?


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## coolbluestreak

Finally got back on the water yesterday and took a few pictures, not great pics, but figured I'd share. I've got to go pick up a part this morning and it it works like it should, she'll be ready to take offf shore.


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## aroundthehorn

Cool boat, dude.


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## MGlover54

oxbeast1210 said:


> I learned thanks to Mglover is that not all ear muffs are the same .


The 93 150hp on Oscar's pisses like it's been stuck in an elevator for 10 hours holding in 5 gallons in the bladder. You should almost be able to shower in it.


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## oxbeast1210

Sure does it doubles as a pressure washer almost lost my hand !! lol


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## coolbluestreak

Well IDK what my problem is then, it doesn't piss hard at all.
I hope to take it out this weekend, did a little work with the fuel system this morning and she's runing like a top.


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## aroundthehorn

coolbluestreak said:


> Well IDK what my problem is then, it doesn't piss hard at all.
> I hope to take it out this weekend, did a little work with the fuel system this morning and she's runing like a top.


How long are you running the motor? What is the water pressure on the hose? Have you checked the screen on the water intake?

And how far is it pissing?


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## pappastratos

coolbluestreak said:


> I purchased to boat yesterday, the guy got a new compression tester and we checked it again. It read 100 on all cylinders save the 6th was just over 90psi.


COOL !! good looking boat !!
About the VRO, it is a very relaible system, BUT a OMC tech told me that the VRO oil/fuel pump and the oil tank pump need to be replaced every 10 years or so.. We can't expect these rubber diaphram pumps to last forever.
I see you are located in Silverhill ! Great! I am relocating to Foley from Birmingham as soon as my house sells. What launch are the photos taken ?


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## coolbluestreak

That launch is at fishriver of off hwy98.


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