# Eleven Flippin' Days! Eleven!



## grouper1963 (Feb 28, 2008)

Just heard this on Fox10 - eleven days for federal red snapper season! Talk about out of control government! WTF!

Seems to me a lot of industries are going to lose out and not just the head boats. I was looking for a boat but now, what's the point? 

Looks like I'll be spending more time on the bike or the golf course.


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## cody&ryand (Oct 3, 2007)

That really sucks what are the dates?


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## aquatic argobull (Mar 2, 2009)

They haven't set dates yet. 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/04/gulf_council_reef_fish_members.html#incart_river_default


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

Charter boats and head boats are gonna be competing for the dolphin cruises and sunset voyages..


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

jgraham154 said:


> Charter boats and head boats are gonna be competing for the dolphin cruises and sunset voyages..


No, we'll be fishing for everything else. :thumbsup: Any charter boat owner that bases his business on how many days of red snapper fishing are available don't have a very solid business.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

screw the feds lets just open state waters 6 months of the year up the size limit to 20in and we will have a great fishery they cant screw up.


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## bigone (Jan 2, 2008)

Let me guess, at least 6-7 days will be blown out to weather:thumbdown:


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

Ban commercial boats and their like too. If Rec guys can only fish 11 days, so should commercial. I mean, If red snapper, gags, trigger and AJ's are so damn endangered, shut those assholes down too. Screw it.


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## b16lewis (Mar 8, 2014)

why dont they just make fishing illegal hell at the rate they are going might as well.


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## jordars (Jun 30, 2009)

Red Snapper, Gag, AJ and Trigger will all be closed in the second half of June. Might as well just ban bottom fishing all together.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Downtime2 said:


> Ban commercial boats and their like too. If Rec guys can only fish 11 days, so should commercial. I mean, If red snapper, gags, trigger and AJ's are so damn endangered, shut those assholes down too. Screw it.


 Wade that's what I say. There is a Senator in NOLA last year that has bill to that affect. If all the States would follow suit it would stop a lot of this crap. Here is the link to the article


http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20130508/ARTICLES/130509558?p=1&tc=pg


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Recreational fishing creates a lost less revenue than commercial fishing and headboats.

Follow the money.

Just my guess.

Jim


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

Downtime2 said:


> Ban commercial boats and their like too. If Rec guys can only fish 11 days, so should commercial. I mean, If red snapper, gags, trigger and AJ's are so damn endangered, shut those assholes down too. Screw it.


But that is what it's all about and has been about. Taking from the recreational fishermen and women and giving to the commercial side who is greasing the palms of our elected officials. Nothing more than crony capitalism, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Their goal was clearly posted on NOAA's webpage 10 years ago, and that is to take away from the recreational and give to the commercial side.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

aquatic argobull said:


> They haven't set dates yet.
> 
> http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/04/gulf_council_reef_fish_members.html#incart_river_default


No worries , with eleven days , there will only be 4 or 5 fishable days any ways because of weather.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

The ONLY thing that will work is if everyone joined together and did not buy a saltwater fishing license this year. But since most of us are responsible sportsmen, we all got our license the day the other expired. 
So that method probably will not work. 

It will sure hurt the fishing stores, because I spend a lot of money to supply up, so I can take friends and customers fishing. That will save me a ton in the price of weights alone. 

It's sad that the commercial sector can go out and catch no telling how many fish, but we can't really go because there aren't many fish left. They are going to ruin it. 
A lot of people book trips and spend a lot of money strictly to go catch snapper. Write that one off. 
This will trickle down in more ways than one. But as long as the commercial people are happy, then all is well in the world.
It's sad to watch something fall apart that so many people care about. It's truly just so sad. 

They have won the battle. Now let's go find something else to catch


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## b16lewis (Mar 8, 2014)

let's over throw them. j\s


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

jim t said:


> Recreational fishing creates a lost less revenue than commercial fishing and headboats.
> 
> Follow the money.
> 
> ...


There are so many more rec guys than commercial. I wonder what the all-in impact of rec anglers to the state of Florida really is?

For a micro example, check out this study..I thought it was pretty interesting.

http://www.evergladesfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Report-Bonefish-Tarpon-Trust.pdf


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

The main problem is that every time there is a meeting or a vote on this kind of thing....the only ones that show up are the commercial guys.
The average joe angler cant be bothered to go to a meeting or show up for a hearing.
We shouldn't have to go to the meetings.....our government should protect our rights....that's what we pay them for. BUT....then there is reality.....
There is a line that an abusive government can come right up to. If they stay on one side of the line...the people will not bother to do anything about the abuse.
They will have to cross that line to get any of us to do anything about it.
Bring on the total fishing ban!
I think that a boycott of fishing and licenses for a while would get some attention. 
It would hurt some businesses as well.....but they will be hurt eventually anyway if this goes any further.
A portion of every license, and every fishing related purchase goes to the feds....so they would feel it pretty quickly as well.
We really need to go after the corrupt and lop-sided allotment system we have going though.
We need to nullify all previous allotments, and re-distribute ....shouldn't that be easy under a democratic government?:whistling:


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## b16lewis (Mar 8, 2014)

amen firefish


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## Fielro (Jun 4, 2012)

As my Dad used to say "if you want something really messed, just turn it over to the government". Not the exact words he used, but you get the drift


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

It's going to end up getting people hurt that are so desperate to just have to get out there no matter what the water conditions are so they can claim they caught a red snapper. Most people know what I'm talking about. I have seen boats out there snapper fishing over the last few years that have zero business being in the ocean in a boat like that going snapper fishing in. 
Mark my word, someone will end up getting hurt out there because of this. It only makes since. They just have to get out there because there's not many days to do it. 2 and 3's turn to 4 and 5's real quick, and that's not the place to be when snapper fishing in a ski boat or aluminum bass fishing boat. 
I think my point is made. 

Stay safe out there.......................







.






.


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

Aww,11 days,that's just horrible. Well maybe if some of the deadass computer cowboys had did something some years ago maybe this wouldn't have happened much like the firevideo dude had brought up in his post which is dead on the truth! Back in the RFRA days there would only be roughly 11 souls that would attend the MAC,FWC and other make you feel good meetings regularly,Hmm 11 regulars....11 days of snapper season,coincidence maybe IDK. Wanna point fingers,see who's to blame,take a look in the mirror. How long did ya think the someone else will fight for my rights attitude was gonna last? We all got burnt out pretty damn quick let me tell ya! Myself,I'm goin whaling and see how everyone likes that cause now look what ya made me go and do! Oh,anybody see any whales yet while cobia fishing? :thumbup:


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

grouper22 said:


> There are so many more rec guys than commercial. I wonder what the all-in impact of rec anglers to the state of Florida really is?
> 
> For a micro example, check out this study..I thought it was pretty interesting.
> 
> http://www.evergladesfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Report-Bonefish-Tarpon-Trust.pdf


Comparing NOAA’s Recreational and Commercial Fishing Economic Data

A report released in May 2013 by the American Sportfishing Association makes a powerful case that from an economic perspective, recreational fishing is just as important as commercial fishing, despite a much lower overall impact on the resource. According to the report, anglers landed just two percent of the total saltwater landings compared to ninety-eight percent caught by the commercial fishing industry.

This first-of-its-kind analysis - Comparing NOAA’s Recreational and Commercial Fishing Economic Data, May 2013 - provides an apples-to-apples comparison of recreational and commercial marine fishing from an economic perspective using NOAA’s National Marine Fisheries Services (NOAA Fisheries) 2011 economic data. The report was produced for ASA by Southwick Associates.

Among the findings are:

Anglers landed just two percent of the total saltwater finfish landings compared to ninety-eight percent caught by the commercial fishing industry. 
Saltwater landings by anglers contributed three times more to the national gross domestic product (GDP, or value-added) than commercial landings. 
The recreational sector added $152.24 in value-added, or GDP, for one pound of fish landed, compared to the commercial sector’s $1.57 for a single pound of fish.
Within the jobs market, the recreational sector made up fifty-four percent of all jobs, both recreational and commercial. This amounts to 455,000 recreational jobs compared to 381,000 on the commercial side.
For every 100,000 pounds landed there were 210 recreational fishing jobs but only 4.5 jobs in the commercial fishing industry.
Download the Executive Summary of Comparing NOAA’s Recreational and Commercial Fishing Economic Data, May 2013 (PDF)

Download Comparing NOAA’s Recreational and Commercial Fishing Economic Data, May 2013 (PDF)

Read the news release - May 6, 2013.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

Take a NOAA Scientist fishing day. In 80 ft of water. Artificial reef. Dare him to catch no red snapper.


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Make Snapper a Gamefish. Done. 

How in the hell can an overfished/endangered fish be allowed to be sold commercially? Bullsheet.


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## fishnhuntguy (Feb 8, 2012)

*Boycott?*

If you boycott here won't do much good. New Yorkers will be glad to pay $15 a lb. for your red snapper. But if some one were to get "sick" from consuming red snapper, then that would kill the commercials market. Would take a lot of PR to overcome some one getting sick from eating BP spill tainted snapper. I'm not saying to do this, I'm just posing a hypothetical.


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## k-p (Oct 7, 2009)

Have you ever thought about it too? When are they going to quit calling it recreational? Why don't they call commercial fishing, recreational picking and eating for persons that can't catch it themselves? Like we don't eat them just as much as the other person paying somebody else to catch it??? It all goes up north to a bunch of people that have way more money then we do down here. Did you see this Friday's Publix add for American Red Snapper Fillets: $19.99/lb. If you have $$ for that then your probably not from around here or you're a cheat in the system... Folks need to wake up around here because the first thing we can start with is doubling or tripling the non-resident saltwater fishing licenses. Then we can start with other ideas. The days of GofM seafood being reasonable are being sold-out to other markets and we're paying the price for it (that means legally you can't fish because somebody else is buying out your right). Wake up people...that's why we're called "little people" down here by multi-national corporations.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

Chet88 said:


> Make Snapper a Gamefish. Done.
> 
> How in the hell can an overfished/endangered fish be allowed to be sold commercially? Bullsheet.


THIS!!! If there's such an issue with snapper #'s, how is it justifiable to keep catching them commercially?

Oh yeah I forgot, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## almo100 (Mar 1, 2013)

I quit fishing for Red Snapper. What's the point.


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

Ya'll are missing the real picture. It's about economics. The fishery is under the U.S. Department of Commerce = $ in the economy.

"For every 100,000 pounds landed there were 210 recreational fishing jobs but only 4.5 jobs in the commercial fishing industry." 

But, for the 100, 000 pounds of red snapper landed by the rec fishermen, there were 100, 000 pounds of red snapper consumed by the rec fishermen.
For every 100,000 pounds landed by commercial fishermen, multiply that by $19 per pound, then multiply that by the 7 times ripple effect within the economy, and you get $1, 330,000 circulated in the economy due to that 100,000 pounds of snapper caught. 

And that my good fishing buddies, is why the fed wants the commercial fishermen to catch the snappers.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

fishn4real said:


> Ya'll are missing the real picture. It's about economics. The fishery is under the U.S. Department of Commerce = $ in the economy.
> 
> "For every 100,000 pounds landed there were 210 recreational fishing jobs but only 4.5 jobs in the commercial fishing industry."
> 
> ...



that is so true


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

Three pages of responses. I bet none of you will show up to any of the meetings to give your 2 cents worth. Go back to riding your bike, playing golf, watching tv, playing on your computer or whatever. That's why you have the season and limits your stuck with.

Frydaddy


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm here.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

frydaddy said:


> Three pages of responses. I bet none of you will show up to any of the meetings to give your 2 cents worth. Go back to riding your bike, playing golf, watching tv, playing on your computer or whatever. That's why you have the season and limits your stuck with.
> 
> Frydaddy


I just read all of this thread and you Frydaddy were the only one that didn't waste my time. 

Btw just had the best crawfish ever in Baton Rouge!


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## Bubba (Sep 27, 2007)

*snapper*

February 1st Louisiana opened their own season in state waters,
until futher notice. You can keep snapper, Friday, Saturday and Sunday


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

fishn4real said:


> Ya'll are missing the real picture. It's about economics. The fishery is under the U.S. Department of Commerce = $ in the economy.
> 
> "For every 100,000 pounds landed there were 210 recreational fishing jobs but only 4.5 jobs in the commercial fishing industry."
> 
> ...


Wow, you are really drinking the strong stuff tonight Amigo.

If it's about economics, then; The recreational sector added $152.24 in value-added, or GDP, for one pound of fish landed, compared to the commercial sector’s $1.57 for a single pound of fish.

So, for that 100,000 pounds of snapper that the recreational fishermen caught, it was worth *$15,224,000* to the nation's GDP.

For the 100,000 pounds of commercially caught snapper, it was worth *$157,000*.

Not even in the same stratosphere - almost 100x the impact per pound.

Did I mention that the Gulf of Mexico commercial red snapper fishery accounts for about 1/25th of 1% of the nation's domestic fishery landings - it's statistically so insignificant, it's not even on the chart.


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## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Tom,

Is it contributions then?

Why are commercial/headboats doing so well?

Jim


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## Jaw Jacker (Jul 29, 2009)

:thumbsup:


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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

Wirelessly posted



bonita dan said:


> Aww,11 days,that's just horrible. Well maybe if some of the deadass computer cowboys had did something some years ago maybe this wouldn't have happened much like the firevideo dude had brought up in his post which is dead on the truth! Back in the RFRA days there would only be roughly 11 souls that would attend the MAC,FWC and other make you feel good meetings regularly,Hmm 11 regulars....11 days of snapper season,coincidence maybe IDK. Wanna point fingers,see who's to blame,take a look in the mirror. How long did ya think the someone else will fight for my rights attitude was gonna last? We all got burnt out pretty damn quick let me tell ya! Myself,I'm goin whaling and see how everyone likes that cause now look what ya made me go and do! Oh,anybody see any whales yet while cobia fishing? :thumbup:


The OLE What Can You Do For Me?

Bonita Dan you are spot on!!! I may have been one of the 11? I attended many of meetings back in the day of RFRA. NMFS and NOAA have been working on the RS plan for many years. They are well on the way the implement their 2020 plan of catch and release. All this mess is from FLAWED data. I guarantee you I have not fished in the Gulf as much as years in the past. No tackle stores have gotten my money because of the rediculous fishing regulations. We are fighting the wrong people(Feds) we must fight the States!!! 

"GET'EM OFF THE BOTTOM"


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

frydaddy said:


> Three pages of responses. I bet none of you will show up to any of the meetings to give your 2 cents worth. Go back to riding your bike, playing golf, watching tv, playing on your computer or whatever. That's why you have the season and limits your stuck with.
> 
> Frydaddy


You don't think the "fix" is already in at these meetings?

The Federal agencies I worked at tended to go their own way regardless of the token "_public input_" they were required to solicit .... until they started getting inquiries from Senators and Congresspersons and the head indians at the agency started getting summoned to appear at one Congressional committee hearing after another to explain themselves.

Seems to me enmasse and continual lobbying of _elected_ officials would be more likely to bring about some change & fairness on this issue.


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

I grew up in Central Mississippi & my Dad & his buddy used to tow a boat down to the coast & take us to to fish for certain ocean species at various times when in season. 

I wonder what the impact of these ever restrictive recreational regulations will have over time on people coming down from Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee for some ocean fishing - and what the impact of that will be on the local economy? I'd say they will be among the first to decide it's just not worth it any more.

Seems to me the local tourist/development organizations would have a dog in this fight ... or don't they want _those_ kind of visitors anymore?


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Here is a thread from back in 2012 http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/red-snapper-tags-135205/index5/ I asked then, and I am still asking, where is our (rec fishermen) single coordinated voice? I remember (not in the attached thread) asking "Who was going to be or wanting to be THAT voice" and I got chastised pretty good. so here we are several years later. Ya'll ready to clog up down town with the trucks and trailers when we should be fishing for Snapper? I figure if we aren't on the water, might as well make a statement with the boats on the trailers.... Oh, just a thought, make sure all your lights are working on those trailers before ya head downtown.

This sucks, if it really happens, but Like someone said, look in the mirror. I'll take responsibility since I asked the question of the single voice, but I didn't offer mine as the single voice.... No bashing requested or required....

Oh, and one more thing, someone mentioned boycotting places. are the charter boats that are on that list "Boats to avoid" still in business? Any way to tell if "That List" had any impact? Just asking....


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## TOBO (Oct 3, 2007)

I just sold my boat, and now dont feel half as bad. As far as writing letters going to meetings ect ect. I stopped it made no impact to what was happening . They warned us years ago , and to all if the people fighting for it, god bless I agree, bottom line , my time is better spent doing other things with my family. There was no return on my time spent . No one ever came together , there was never a good plan. Blame the science, leave the commercial guys alone, ect ect. Write the senator email, FWC , go to meetings. There are other fish, snapper are just the easiest to catch. Commercial guys just gave it to us , plain and simple. I also don't see how there is any chance at all there is more money impact by commercial guys. This is the squeaky wheel getting greased IMHO . Gamefish status is what we should have fought for from the beginning .


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

jim t said:


> Tom,
> 
> Is it contributions then?
> 
> ...


The system was hijacked in 2006 when the enviro groups "were instrumental in passing and crafting the changes to the Magnuson".

They have poured millions upon millions of dollars into getting Catch Shares implemented - buying influence in Washington DC, creating/funding front groups like The Charter Fisherman's Association, The Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance, funding lawsuits such as the recent one against the NMFS to force their agenda trough the courts instead of through science, etc. etc.

Why you ask? Well, when you convert a "free" Public Trust Resource into a tradable commodity like a stock on Wall street, that is an enormous transfer of wealth - from the many (All Americans) to the few (EDF-funded front groups). The idea is to give ownership rights to shareholders to be able to levy Resource Rent upon other Americans by leasing our fish - one commercial shareholder can lease his quota today and make over $1 million/year for the rest of his life, then hand it down to his kids for the rest of their lives, and he didn't pay a dime for those shares.

Generations of fish come and spawn and live their lives here and the cycle goes on. Generations of Gulf fishermen have enjoyed the bounty that the Gulf has to offer. Now, it is THIS generation that is going to OWN those fish in perpetuity. Our kids' and their kids' fishing future have been sold lock stock and barrel - they can still fish, but they will have to pay these fish barons.


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## feelin' wright (Oct 7, 2007)

Keep pressure on the states. Only way this comes out in our favor is to have the states back the recreational angler regarding fishing in federal waters. 

Another option that needs to be explored is to petition Robert Turpin to only place reefs in the Laars area that is inside the 9 NM line so that we can increase habitat that will allow recreational fisherman to access and keep fish.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

AndyS said:


> You don't think the "fix" is already in at these meetings?
> 
> The Federal agencies I worked at tended to go their own way regardless of the token "_public input_" they were required to solicit .... until they started getting inquiries from Senators and Congresspersons and the head indians at the agency started getting summoned to appear at one Congressional committee hearing after another to explain themselves.
> 
> Seems to me enmasse and continual lobbying of _elected_ officials would be more likely to bring about some change & fairness on this issue.


 
Great Post. "Catch Shares" in the commercial red snapper and now in the charter industry have been the "fix" and desire of NOAA for the past 10 years minimum. Catch shares have been a part of commercial red snapper fishining for since 2004-2005. Some of the commercial operators that were gifted the most red snapper resource back in 2004 are now referred to in some circles as the "fish barons". The commercial fisherman and the charter fisherman association want to see catch shares in the charter industry as well. 

Thie outcome of this law suit is a perfect storm for Crabtree and company to go to an 11 day season and force catch shares into the charter fleet under the guise of without them charter businesses will not survive.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

I didn't think the LAARS are within nine miles. Aren't they all in Fed waters?


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

And the head boat program???


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## Fletch Lives (Dec 12, 2011)

If they made it illegal to export Red Snapper (which they never will) it would be helpful. The commercial guys ask for more shares of the quota using the reason to get fish to the american people...in reality they are exporting it since they make more money that way. Crazy...but money is power...ask the lobbyist


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## almo100 (Mar 1, 2013)

The only reason the commercial fisherman are getting the bulk is because they are organized and the recreational guys are not.

We outnumber them and if we were just as organized they would not have a chance against us.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

badonskybuccaneers said:


> And the head boat program???


The head boat program is catch shares by another name. Those particpating head boats have enough grease on their skids to slide right into the new management plan (Catch shares for federally permitted charter) preferred by NOAA, National Fisheries (Crabtree), the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), and the gulf shareholders alliance http://shareholdersalliance.us/SA/ (Commercial Gulf catch share /IFQ holders), the Charter Fisherman's Association http://www.joincfa.org/ https://www.facebook.com/CharterFA 
(Charter Gulf catch share /IFQ holder wannabees).


The U.S Congress and the Management Councils have created several ways for recreational fishing groups and others to advocate for new management options. Charter Fisherman’s Association is working towards long-term solutions to increase fishing time, improve businesses, and ensure a sustainable fishery.



SECTOR SEPARATION INFORMATION AND DOCUMENT PAGE ADDED AND OPEN TO EVERYONE TO SEE - CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE CFA SECTOR SEPARATION DOCUMENT PAGE. If you have information you would like us to post to the sector separation information page you may email it to us with a request to add it.

and my opinion is they will not stop with snapper. Thye will not be content till they own harvest rights to all other reef fish and then they will come for the pelagics.


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## Cap'n Davey (Mar 26, 2014)

lobsterman said:


> But that is what it's all about and has been about. Taking from the recreational fishermen and women and giving to the commercial side who is greasing the palms of our elected officials. Nothing more than crony capitalism, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Their goal was clearly posted on NOAA's webpage 10 years ago, and that is to take away from the recreational and give to the commercial side.


That is what Big Government is all about. Playing the thug by taking from one person or group and redistributing it to another person or group. The government can do what we as citizens would be arrested for, namely: theft. This is the result of our abandoning of the Constitution and free-market system. We are in a mixed-economy, and we will see more and more of this until we acheive 100% tyranny.


:hammer2:


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## bamajdk (Feb 27, 2014)

First, we have the Commercial Fishermen to thank for this. It is their lawsuit that reduced the season to 11 days. So I can tell you that I won't ever eat Snapper in a restaurant, and will make darn sure those restaurants serving it know my displeasure and most likely avoidance of their establishment. 

Second, this has gone too far. Any fool with a boat knows that Red Snapper are over populated in the Gulf. So it stands that our Fed Gov't is dumber than a fool. This is what we get when we vote in Communist Democrats to run our lives. Wake up and realize before it's too late that we must be held responsible for our votes. Stop the madness.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

jim t said:


> Tom,
> 
> Is it contributions then?
> 
> ...


I'll answer for him because it's a very simple answer. They do so well because it's a small unified group in both instances. Unlike the very unsuccessful rec group that feels that they are doing their part of the management by bitching on PFF instead of coming to the meetings. Nothing but CFH and commercial fishermen at the meeting here today/yesterday.


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## k-p (Oct 7, 2009)

If USCG or FWC start going through your hatches this summer at the passes, will it constitute unreasonable searches and seizures? Maritime lawyers are welcome to this discussion.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> I'll answer for him because it's a very simple answer. They do so well because it's a small unified group in both instances. Unlike the very unsuccessful rec group that feels that they are doing their part of the management by bitching on PFF instead of coming to the meetings. Nothing but CFH and commercial fishermen at the meeting here today/yesterday.


No need to answer for me - I have already answered him.

The CFH/Commercial guys there are on the dime of The Environmental Defense Fund - regular Joe fisherman can't afford to take time off from his job/family to attend dog and pony shows such as this.

The commercial fishermen filed this lawsuit in the name of "accountability" but in reality because they are trying to prevent reallocation - typical sleight of hand from the EDF-funded lackies. You can thank EDF and their goons for our 11 day season this year since the GC is having to abide by the judge's ruling.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

LopeAlong said:


> I'll answer for him because it's a very simple answer. They do so well because it's a small unified group in both instances. Unlike the very unsuccessful rec group that feels that they are doing their part of the management by bitching on PFF instead of coming to the meetings. Nothing but CFH and commercial fishermen at the meeting here today/yesterday.


 
Well most of the good recreational folks are working during the day. If recreational fisherman's jobs and income depended on their attendance at the meetings they would be there. Not only that in the past EDF has funded the cost of the trip for charter boat owners who couldn't afford to attend the meetings.


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## Seachaser 186 (Apr 9, 2009)

feelin' wright said:


> Keep pressure on the states. Only way this comes out in our favor is to have the states back the recreational angler regarding fishing in federal waters.
> 
> Another option that needs to be explored is to petition Robert Turpin to only place reefs in the Laars area that is inside the 9 NM line so that we can increase habitat that will allow recreational fisherman to access and keep fish.


I'm not sure if we will ever have a big impact on the Feds. and I'm not suggesting that we give up, but maybe we look at a "plan B". Feelin' Wright in my opinion is on to something here. I'm not sure where the Laars area is, but what if Robert Turpin and anyone else that has clout with the state, lobbied to start a massive artificial reef program inside state waters. This would be a big benefit to small boat anglers and any one else not wanting to run far offshore. To help protect the state reef program, make it illegal for commercial or charter boats to fish the state waters for snapper. If the commercial and charter fleet are getting favors from the feds, make them fish in fed. waters and leave the snapper alone in state waters. If the other Gulf Coast states adopted the same laws it could make a statement and make for a very productive stretch of water all along the coast line.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

I was here Tom Hilton. Wearing my black shirt like I promised. I want you to prove I got a freakin dime from the EDF. Request any info you like from me I'll be happy to comply. You won't be able to. I spent 2 tanks of gas, 5 meals and a hotel room all of my own money to get up and voice my opinion. But oh buddy get ready because it's all gonna change now


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Gator McKlusky said:


> Well most of the good recreational folks are working during the day. If recreational fisherman's jobs and income depended on their attendance at the meetings they would be there. Not only that in the past EDF has funded the cost of the trip for charter boat owners who couldn't afford to attend the meetings.


But good honest folk can afford to take off spend hundreds of dollars on a red snapper fishing trip? C'mon.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> But good honest folk can afford to take off spend hundreds of dollars on a red snapper fishing trip? C'mon.


Are you retired or still working and just feel like talking shit?


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

I'm wiling to bet that if dozens of rec anglers showed up at EVERY meeting it wouldn't make a difference. Just like it hasn't made a difference that Lope Along, or anybody for that matter, has attended. 

If you think showing up at a meeting and pounding your fist on a table makes a difference I think you've far under (or maybe over) estimated your government. 

Just my opinion.


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## PoolBoy074 (May 2, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> I was here Tom Hilton. Wearing my black shirt like I promised. I want you to prove I got a freakin dime from the EDF. Request any info you like from me I'll be happy to comply. You won't be able to. I spent 2 tanks of gas, 5 meals and a hotel room all of my own money to get up and voice my opinion. But oh buddy get ready because it's all gonna change now


And we have a troll folks..... :whistling:


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

johnboatjosh said:


> I'm wiling to bet that if dozens of rec anglers showed up at EVERY meeting it wouldn't make a difference. Just like it hasn't made a difference that Lope Along, or anybody for that matter, has attended.
> 
> If you think showing up at a meeting and pounding your fist on a table makes a difference I think you've far under (or maybe over) estimated your government.
> 
> Just my opinion.


That's bull. I saw what happened today with CFH and Commercials guys all saying they wanted the same thing. There was not a single private rec angler in the crowd. I won't spoil it for you what happened but Tom Hilton is gonna lose his shyt.


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## PoolBoy074 (May 2, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> I was here Tom Hilton. Wearing my black shirt like I promised. I want you to prove I got a freakin dime from the EDF. Request any info you like from me I'll be happy to comply. You won't be able to. I spent 2 tanks of gas, 5 meals and a hotel room all of my own money to get up and voice my opinion. But oh buddy get ready because it's all gonna change now


Should of wore a pink shirt bro,,,, it would of complimented your eyes much better.....


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

I wonder just how long its going to take Hilton to figure out what happened today? Very surprised he doesn't already know, guess he has no friends. LOL


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Firefishvideo said:


> The main problem is that every time there is a meeting or a vote on this kind of thing....the only ones that show up are the commercial guys.
> The average joe angler cant be bothered to go to a meeting or show up for a hearing.
> We shouldn't have to go to the meetings.....our government should protect our rights....that's what we pay them for. BUT....then there is reality.....
> There is a line that an abusive government can come right up to. If they stay on one side of the line...the people will not bother to do anything about the abuse.
> ...



*Firefish is dead-on right.* 

Here are 2 examples:

1. Last June, during Red Snapper Season, the Gulf Council held their meeting in Pensacola. Guess how many private recreational people were there speaking to the Council? ONE! The room was full of commercial guys and all the vendors that depend on them but there were NO boat dealers or manufacturers, there were no dive shop owners or tackle shop owners, no boat mechanics that service your boats, no Pensacola or Okaloosa County marina owners and... *Not a single private recreational fisherman in Pensacola showed up to a meeting in their own town.* How do I know? I was there! It's easy to moan and groan on a forum but if you want things to change you have to be active and sometimes that means missing a day of fishing or work to go and speak up for yourself. 

2. Heck, if you go to the Gulf Council website and read the comments on reallocation of red snapper to give a larger allocation to recreational fishermen you will notice that a lot of people on this forum didn't even bother to leave a comment with their favorite alternative. 
*To read online comments that have been posted, go here: *https://docs.google.com/a/valp.net/s...IVDJ6cWc#gid=0

There are those who have gone to meetings to stick up for your rights and tell you what is going on and even provide you with links where you can be part of the process but most of you won't do it. Don't think someone else will be able to carry all of you. It's time all fishermen and women start standing up for their rights, it's time the industries that we support *stand up to support us! 
*
*There is an old saying "Ask and you shall receive" Well, You aren't asking and you aren't receiving.* Have you written letters to your representatives, to the Gulf Council, to the FWC? Have you attended meetings or visited links on websites that don't even require you to leave your house? Some of you have but, if you read the comments on re-allocation, you will be shocked how few, if any, of your fishing/diving buddies have taken 30 seconds to post "I support option # __" (I attached the options. You can decide for yourself which option you support.)

*If you REALLY want more red snapper fishing time, submit option choice with your comments here: (Don't forget to list an option choice!)*http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_m...Allocation.php 

If you want to read the entire amendment proposal, go here: http://www.gulfcouncil.org/docs/amen...rch%202014.pdf

*It's time for the sleeping GIANT to WAKE UP! *


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

Hmm, the quote I highlighted didn't show up right. Anyway, for those of you that want more state reefs so that we build our state waters you might want to consider supporting this presentation to the FL Senate. Watch this: http://www.flsenate.gov/media/videoplayer?EventID=2443575804_2013121069 

*If you prefer to just quickly look at the charts, go here:* http://www.ecreef.org/Presentation_Pages/Government_Presentations/FL%20State%20Approp%27n%20Committtee%20Presentation%2011%20Dec%2013.pdf

How many of you will contact your representatives and the FWC Commissioners and ask them to support this?

*Ask and ye shall receive! If you don't ask, you don't receive.*


BTW: Robert Turpin has done a fantastic job getting in state waters permitted in Pensacola, he's been more successful than most County marine managers. I'm in Okaloosa County and our county is years behind.


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## grouper1963 (Feb 28, 2008)

If you want to change something, write your congressmen - state and federal - representatives and senators. It is even easier using the internet.

While I understand the sentiments of "showing up" to meetings, not one of those decisionmakers is elected and most are experts from the commercial industry - they have an interest in creating work to keep themselves and their cohorts in the business.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

> CFH and Commercials guys all saying they wanted the same thing.


Ya'll want the same thing right now. Take away from the Rec. That's it. The commercial guys will fuck ya'll later and they'll get back doored by the EDF. Then everybody's up shit creek with a turd for a paddle, because ya'll are some greedy sum bitches.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

grouper1963 said:


> If you want to change something, write your congressmen - state and federal - representatives and senators. It is even easier using the internet.
> 
> While I understand the sentiments of "showing up" to meetings, not one of those decisionmakers is elected and most are experts from the commercial industry - they have an interest in creating work to keep themselves and their cohorts in the business.


I doubt they waste their time reading a bunch of complaining people's letters. Those letters and emails just go into a box for complaints. 
If they were concerned they would be on t.v. Fighting for the cause. Which they're not.


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## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

MrFish said:


> Ya'll want the same thing right now. Take away from the Rec. That's it. The commercial guys will fuck ya'll later and they'll get back doored by the EDF. Then everybody's up shit creek with a turd for a paddle, because ya'll are some greedy sum bitches.


Unbridled truth.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

*Update on Red Snapper Management in Gulf of Mexico*
On Friday, *April 11*, from 12pm to 1pm ET, Regional Administrator Dr. Roy Crabtree will host a conference call with interested parties on red snapper management in the Gulf of Mexico, including the 2014 recreational red snapper fishing season. Call 1-800-593-8999 and use password FISH SNAPPER.

*I wonder how many of you will join this call??? No travel required.

Has an 11 day season given you motivation to participate in the process?

Did you go to the Gulf Council comment page for amendment 28 to list your choice of alternatives for red snapper allocation? It will take you about 1 minute to type in "I support option # ( put your favorite option)" I posted the options in an earlier post. If you want to participate in the process, here is the link: **http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_m...Allocation.php *


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Chapman5011 said:


> I doubt they waste their time reading a bunch of complaining people's letters. Those letters and emails just go into a box for complaints.
> If they were concerned they would be on t.v. Fighting for the cause. Which they're not.


They can't read what you don't send. Tom Ard is in their offices talking to them. Complaining on this forum is not doing anything. Nothing at all. You can say they don't listen, but do you really know? Have you sent anything? Have you tried to contact anyone? I had a good conversation this morning with Chris Blankenship of Alabama Marine Resources. There are some good things in the works that will benefit rec guys.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

feelin' wright said:


> Keep pressure on the states. Only way this comes out in our favor is to have the states back the recreational angler regarding fishing in federal waters.
> 
> Another option that needs to be explored is to petition Robert Turpin to only place reefs in the Laars area that is inside the 9 NM line so that we can increase habitat that will allow recreational fisherman to access and keep fish.


Yes, the States do have control of their waters and we should all encourage the State to spend our reef building grant monies in State waters but historically they 56% of reefs financed with state grant money have been built in Federal waters.

When you buy your fishing license a portion of that money is supposed to go to building habitat. Well, last year Florida fishing license sales brought in over $25 million dollars. Guess how much they put in the reef building fund??? $300 thousand dollars!

When you buy fishing gear, fuel at marinas and boat engines, you are charged a hidden 10% excise tax by the federal government. That money is supposed to be spent to restore our fishery. Last Year, Florida received over $12 million dollars from the Sports Fish Restoration program. Guess how much went to the artificial reef fund? $500 thousand dollars. 

Artificial reefs provide habitat that grows our fishery and yet, out of the FWC's $300+ million dollar annual budget only 1/4 of 1% of their entire budget is allocated for problem solving. The majority of the remaining 99 3/4% of their annual budget is spent on problem management. Over 1/3 of their entire budget is spent on law enforcement!

As a fellow reef builder in Okaloosa County, this is what I know about Robert Turpin: he has been the most successful County marine manager in the Panhandle when it comes to getting state water permits. Count your blessings, Escambia Co. is YEARS ahead of Okaloosa County in permitting State waters. Also, when you look at grants received from the State, Robert has been quite successful in winning reef building grant money from the state too.

If you want more reefs built in State waters, you need to send respectful letters to the FWC Commission requesting that they increase funding for artificial reef building. Be sure to CC Senator Gaetz (Senate President and your representative) and Senator Hays who is the chair of the Appropriations Committee that approves the FWC Budget. The Senators are your friend, ask them nicely and, if you have a case to be made, make it in a respectful manner. Contrary to what some people have said on this forum, you can make a difference by becoming involved if you stick to facts and refrain from expressing yourself in anger. Who wants to listen to an angry person? If you present reason and facts, then your point of view will have more of a chance of making a difference. But, if you sit quietly while the rug is ripped out from under you, what do you expect? 

*ASK and you will receive. *


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