# On Killing by Lt.Col. Grossman



## CSA (Oct 23, 2008)

After reading all the different post about concealed carry and how you would act and all the comments about how to train for this or not too.It seems like there is always a difference in opinions on this. I read alot on here about stress training and train as you fight,how this is bad and to macho. I am not one to to say who is right or who teaches the better tactics. I am going to say you do need more than just a few hour course from the gun show because no matter how much you train or how bad you talk, you don't know how you are going to react when a situation arises, unless you have already experienced it before. I can say this is a fact because I have seen the most macho guy freeze up and almost get killed,even with tones of training. I have also witnessed the training take over and get the most unlikely person to do the best they can to survive a bad situation. I think if more peaple read the book On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Lt.Col. Dave Grossman they would get a better understanding how the militarys train as you fight mentality might not be such a bad idea. I know certain branches of the service requires you to read this book so I am sure some have. The book is full of facts and I think it gives a person a better perspective on why people react the way they do in combative situation. I am not saying everyone needs to go around and have a kill first attitude, I am saying open your mind and read some hard facts and decide for yourself on how to get prepared or not. I usually sit back and watch and listen to the people on the forum bash each other and get into pissing contest but I feel if more people understood the psyche of the human reaction then there would be less bickering and un experienced / un intelligent remarks made about this topic. If you choose to read the book then you gain knowledge and if you don't all well that is your choice.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

I have read it, some good info in there, some not so good info in there. I will say that in most self defense situations you probably won't have time to do a lot of thinking, hence the training kicking in. Most folks aren't going to have a problem pulling the trigger when the time comes, dealing with it afterwards is usually the hardest part.


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

Proper training will teach reaction in certain types of situations. I know first hand and have been trained extensively in defensive tactics, as well as use of force. I also have been in a couple of shootouts. The bottom line is you will fight like you train, the more training you do the better you will react in different situations. After it is all over if you are still standing you will see that you reacted and will not even remember " dropping that mag to reload" or "advancing to cover". Train Train Train!


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> Proper training will teach reaction in certain types of situations. I know first hand and have been trained extensively in defensive tactics, as well as use of force. I also have been in a couple of shootouts. The bottom line is you will fight like you train, the more training you do the better you will react in different situations. After it is all over if you are still standing you will see that you reacted and will not even remember " dropping that mag to reload" or "advancing to cover". Train Train Train!


There is nothing like muscle memory and repetition. It's been dropping bad guys like flies for years.

Shooting targets at 10 feet with a pistol may "simulate" a self defense firing solution. Running a 100 meter sprint and knocking out 10 pushups before you engage that target at ten feet is simulating the full engagement.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> Proper training will teach reaction in certain types of situations. I know first hand and have been trained extensively in defensive tactics, as well as use of force. I also have been in a couple of shootouts. The bottom line is you will fight like you train, the more training you do the better you will react in different situations. After it is all over if you are still standing you will see that you reacted and will not even remember " dropping that mag to reload" or "advancing to cover". Train Train Train!



Just about said it ALL
The only thing is for a civilian is after the BG is dead and you are alive. You can be glad but also cause a bit of mental jujitsu, military and LEO's, not so much.


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

About the only thing I haven't heard said is when something happens it happens quick and fast, it will same to be in slow motion and some details you will remember and some you will not. I try to tell people not to start talking , get legal advice, If you say any thing, you were in fear of your life. That is all the report will have and not some statement that you might regret later. just my two cents jj


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## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

I still train in the off deer season but my heart is not in it anymore.

the reliving past events and constantly trying to avoid the triggers is the worst part of after engagement mentality.
a certain smell , a momentary glance , the sound of a helicopter , someones voice can do the mental jujitsu you speak off.

the midnight visits from ghost of the past can strike internal trembling that messes you up for days. the wife no longer wakes me up with a broom stick but I wish I could have avoided so many situations.

I try to be a passive person these days and rely more on early warning and escape


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

HisName has put it very well, That is the way I try to be now days I try to be passive person these days and rely more on early warning and escape but I will take it head on if I have to and try to come out ahead. just my two cents jj


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

sniperpeeps said:


> There is nothing like muscle memory and repetition. It's been dropping bad guys like flies for years.
> 
> Shooting targets at 10 feet with a pistol may "simulate" a self defense firing solution. Running a 100 meter sprint and knocking out 10 pushups before you engage that target at ten feet is simulating the full engagement.



I agree with you except I'll being sprinting a zig zag pattern 100 meters at 45 degrees AWAY from the threat!! And I'll push myself up off the ground only when I fall down out of breath from running away, probably about every 10 meters, so that works out just right for the math!


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Capt Ron said:


> I agree with you except I'll being sprinting a zig zag pattern 100 meters at 45 degrees AWAY from the threat!! And I'll push myself up off the ground only when I fall down out of breath from running away, probably about every 10 meters, so that works out just right for the math!



The running and pushups gets your heart rate up, making it more realistic like a real life situation. In a real life situation, your heart rate will be extremely high making it difficult to hold your rifle/pistol steady.


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## Buckyt (Oct 1, 2007)

Let's pray that we never have to use all that training.


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## helo_hunter (Oct 2, 2007)

Amen


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## rob883 (Oct 3, 2007)

it never happens as you think it will................it always seems like a 10 second event took 5 minutes................you go for years never using any of it then one night you have to draw and then after you want to yell then scream and the puke !!!!!! the first time i pulled a knife on a guy pointing a gun at me well i learned you will use whatever you have at the time.The other thing i learned if one is willing to take a life then carry a gun not a knife


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## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

Capt Ron said:


> I agree with you except I'll being sprinting a zig zag pattern 100 meters at 45 degrees AWAY from the threat!! And I'll push myself up off the ground only when I fall down out of breath from running away, probably about every 10 meters, so that works out just right for the math!


maybe the army taught me wrong but you close the distance and utilize any and all cover. by closing the distance it forces the bad guy to make a wrong decision. Atleast thats what has been emphasized in training for the last year


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

fisheye48 said:


> maybe the army taught me wrong but you close the distance and utilize any and all cover. by closing the distance it forces the bad guy to make a wrong decision. Atleast thats what has been emphasized in training for the last year



+1, can't beat that Military Training and mindset! Thank you for your Service!


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