# 3 reel battle royal



## BlackFlag (Oct 23, 2007)

If shimano, penn, and daiwa got into a battle royal, who do you think would immerge victorious?


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## JLMass (Oct 1, 2007)

shimano


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

shimano.


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## SKIFFY (Oct 6, 2007)

shimano.

daiwa shouldnt be in that sentence man!

its like comparing a kia to a bmw


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## JOHNJOHN205 (Oct 2, 2007)

shimano hands down


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## hewes22 (Oct 4, 2007)

shimano no competition


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## true-king (Oct 2, 2007)

another vote for shimano


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## NoMoSurf (Oct 2, 2007)

> *SKIFFY (11/4/2007)*shimano.
> daiwa shouldnt be in that sentence man!
> its like comparing a kia to a bmw


I was thinking the same thing about the Penn.

Definatly Shimano. I own and use all three. I would replace them all with Shimano's if I could afford it. Without a thought about it. As a matter of fact, I was looking at replacing my quantum ultralite with a shimano Spirex 1000RD just yesterday.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

Penn if you are considering only unimportant things like gear strength, drag quality and consistency, finish, etc. Shimano if you are only looking at marketing hype ;-)

Harry


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

Shimano for sure


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*Penn if you are considering only unimportant things like gear strength, drag quality and consistency, finish, etc. Shimano if you are only looking at marketing hype ;-)
> 
> Harry


sure about that?


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## Sam Roberts (Oct 22, 2007)

shimano i got a stella two stradics and a torium 30 and a van staal use to have a penn sold it.

*shimano *



*and are we talking inshore reels or bigger off shore reels in not a big fan on the bigger shimanos...ill take a penn 7500 over a shimano shperos or thunnus any day.*


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

> *alum maverick (11/4/2007)*shimano i got a stella two stradics and a torium 30 and a van staal use to have a penn sold it.
> 
> *shimano *
> 
> ...


But a Tiagra beats the hell out of an international.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

for bottom bumping and what-not, i'm a huge fan of the shimano Trinidad... you can damn sure put the brakes on an AJ... like the torsa too, but it's exspensive, and i really don't like the lever drag.


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## 14offshore (Oct 2, 2007)

shimano is there any other kind let me think --no


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## whipper snapper (Sep 30, 2007)

shimano:clap


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## Mellow Yellow (Oct 27, 2007)

Did all you Shimano lovers get paid for your endorsement here? I've never seen such a one sided post even on the internet. Just to make it even....anything but Shimano.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

> *VS200B (11/4/2007)*
> 
> 
> > *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*Penn if you are considering only unimportant things like gear strength, drag quality and consistency, finish, etc. Shimano if you are only looking at marketing hype ;-)
> ...


Yeah, I'm sure, especially if you are talking about gold reels (International V vs anything Shimano makes, Torque vs anything Shimano makes, etc).

Harry


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

Sure they do Will. Whatever you say. Exactly how many Internationalsor Tiagras do you have anyway? How about Torques, Toriums, or Torsas? That's what I thought.

Harry


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## brnbser (Oct 1, 2007)

we've boated everthing from 70# hoo to white marlin this year while targeting kings fishing the ska along with numerous mid 40# kings all caught on.............big ole bad Penn 535's with 25# test ande, the other things everyone bashes, ande mono.............I must be a rebel with you Harry. 

actually everything on the boat is a Penn, sold all the Shimano's I owned and now have everything from Int V's to my little 430ssg.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

Ditto...nothing but Penns in my quiver and all of them on Chaos rods. Life's too short and gas too expensive tochance a lost fish withanything else.

Harry


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## NoMoSurf (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*Penn if you are considering only unimportant things like gear strength, drag quality and consistency, finish, etc. Shimano if you are only looking at marketing hype ;-)
> 
> Harry




Marketing hype? I dont think I have ever seen a Shimano add OR commecial. Seen plenty of Penn adds...

I was recently on a charter with some pretty old looking shimano's that were fairly neglected looking and they performaed flawlessly. I had a new in the box penn that rattled when you shook it. I took it back, tested all of them on the shelf. SAME!!! I traded up to the next model and STILL THE SAME!!! Rattles. Penns are like harleys. Tough, but old and behind the times.

AS for the gear strenght and drag. I have never had a problem with Shimano. As a matter of fact. I have only ever had 2 reelsget guttedon me in my life. One was a $30 Seahawk spinner combo and the other was a Penn 109. Both on 4-5ft sharks. Last year I caught two 4 footers on a crappy non-saltwater Diawa Sweepfire-A 2500 that I bought 2 for $20!! It still works fine and was fishing with it this afternoon, as a matter of fact.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm not talking about toy reels. I'm talking about serious offshore gear. See the attachments...the larger gears and shafts are Penn, the smaller are Shimano. See http://charkbait.com/cs/csrp.htmfor more comparisons between Penn and Shimano. The hype is on all the online merchants and catalogs.

Harry


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## GONU (Oct 3, 2007)

Penn all the way.:clap:clap


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

I don't know any good billfish guys that fish with penns, Tiagras and TLD's all the way.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

i'd fish with a zebco for before i picked up a penn.


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## PBTH (Oct 1, 2007)

Penn 4 life. Doesn't even need to be argued.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

> *VS200B (11/4/2007)*i'd fish with a zebco for before i picked up a penn.


I guess you better start picking up Penns then...you do fish with a Zebco already. Van Staal isowned by W.C. Bradley Co now, which assigned Van Staal to its Zebco Subsidiary.

http://www.vanstaal.com/About.html

Harry


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

penns break... no point to argue:letsdrink


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

Brilliant reply. I've got some news for you....everything breaks, even your Zebcos from time to time.

Harry


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## getbent (Oct 2, 2007)

:Flipbird thats for the crack at harleys and for me its almost exclusively penn, mix in a flueger or two and a us reel


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

i know... penns (and mitchells) just happen to break often... i blew up 3 penn 706'z and a mitchell 302 in less than 2 weeks... apperently hooking 100lb tarpon on them isn't a smart thing to do.


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## whipper snapper (Sep 30, 2007)

penn is now owned by k-2. thats why all your new captivas and silverados are so shakespeare-ish. i am waiting to see how that new shakespeare 80w holds up. that should be bad-ass!!!:clap:usaflag


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## NoMoSurf (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*I'm not talking about toy reels. I'm talking about serious offshore gear. See the attachments...the larger gears and shafts are Penn, the smaller are Shimano. See http://charkbait.com/cs/csrp.htmfor more comparisons between Penn and Shimano. The hype is on all the online merchants and catalogs.
> 
> Harry


No previous reference was was made by you or the orignal poster to "serious offshore reels" But since "toy" reels probably make up 99% of the reels sold, it would be logical to assume that we are talking about ALL reels accross the board. Bigger stronger gears mean nothing when you arent brweaking the weak ones. I have never heard of anyone stripping a TLD or a Torium. This reel has big strong gears too, but that doesn't mean I would want to fish with it.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

i agree with nomosurf...

hey Freespool!... didn't you catch a 88lb hooter on a tld30?


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## NoMoSurf (Oct 2, 2007)

> *getbent (11/4/2007)*:Flipbird thats for the crack at harleys and for me its almost exclusively penn, mix in a flueger or two and a us reel


It wasn't a crack against Harley. TheyARE old and out of date technology. Harley tried getting with the times with that sportbike with the porsche designed engine. Harley peoople make fun of them. They love there old style Harleys. Thats what makes them endearing to those that love them. same for Penns I guess. The whole arguement is mute. Everyone will have VERY strong opinions on the product that they use, and no internet bash fest will change that for anyone. I love my shimano's, I have penns and like them ok, and will continue to use them... until they break:doh



I'm going to bed now. I'm tired from playing with my "toys" all day. :letsdrink And 4:30 comes really early. :boo


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

> *VS200B (11/4/2007)*i agree with nomosurf...
> 
> hey Freespool!... didn't you catch a 88lb hooter on a tld30?




92lbs on a TLD 25


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Freespool (11/4/2007)*
> 
> 
> > *VS200B (11/4/2007)*i agree with nomosurf...
> ...


i stand corrected!!!:hotsun

post a picture fool!


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## JLMass (Oct 1, 2007)

back in the day my dad bought a penn 450 it seized up the first week. we still use some Penn's mostly 706's and 706z's for surf fishing and from the pier but for inshore we use stradics and i use a stradic MgFa model it works fine its my 3rd stradic 4000 and im not switching till i find something better maybe a stella if they get cheaper


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

> *whipper snapper *penn is now owned by k-2. thats why all your new captivas and silverados are so shakespeare-ish. i am waiting to see how that new shakespeare 80w holds up. that should be bad-ass!!!:clap:usaflag


True, but moot...I didn't say I'd sooner fish a Shakespeare before I fished a Penn.



> *NoMoSurf (11/4/2007)* I have never heard of anyone stripping a TLD or a Torium.


I have. 



> *Freespool *
> 
> 
> > *VS200B (11/4/2007)*hey Freespool!... didn't you catch a 88lb hooter on a tld30?
> ...


Again, so what? I've landed 185+ YFTs on my 30VSWs and 90 lb AJs on graphite10LDs. And last time I was in Venice I watched a guy land a 90 lb YFT on a Penn 560 with 30 lb PP. None of which has anything to do with durability or quality and everything to do with fishing skills.



> *www.fishing *Harry what the hell man.How do you know what reels i own or rods?Just answer that and get back at me.


Just an educated guess, Will. Prove me wrong. I do however know what you told me when you painted my house and did some plaster work last spring...I don't recall anything about any gold reels last year. Oh well, at least the work you and Johndid was decent...after you tried to jack me on the price. At least you were still $1500 under the next best bid.

Harry


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## Travis Gill (Oct 6, 2007)

I wasn't saying it meant anything, I was just simply correcting chickenbone. If you want to talk about tuna fishing everyone I know in Venice uses shimano's or Fin Nor's.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Freespool *If you want to talk about tuna fishing everyone I know in Venice uses shimano's or Fin Nor's.


I don't doubt that, but then again, I doubt you know everybody who fishes in Venice, so that's not much of a statistic.

Anyway, I'm hitting the rack..thanks againfor trying on the menhaden.

Harry


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## Sam Roberts (Oct 22, 2007)

> *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*
> 
> 
> > *VS200B (11/4/2007)*i'd fish with a zebco for before i picked up a penn.
> ...




im sure him and i know that...how many van staals have you sold in your life? lol

we know just about everything about a van staal.


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

> *alum maverick * im sure him and i know that...how many van staals have you sold in your life? lol we know just about everything about a van staal.


What does selling or knowing everything about Van Staals have to do with whether Penn, Shiman, or Diawa is the best reel? Or about whether he made a silly remark abot sooner fishing a Zebco than a Penn?

Harry


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## LuckyLady (Oct 2, 2007)

To each his own but I just sold 5 Penn International 50's and purchased Shimano Tyrnos to replace them. A little lighter capability but agreat high-speed retrieve and drag system on this reel. I believe these reels will handle anything I am likely to catch in the Gulf and are a lot more versatile than the bulky 50's.


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## Brad King (Sep 30, 2007)

Shimano:letsdrink


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## AUBuilder (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*I'm not talking about toy reels. I'm talking about serious offshore gear. See the attachments...the larger gears and shafts are Penn, the smaller are Shimano. See http://charkbait.com/cs/csrp.htmfor more comparisons between Penn and Shimano. The hype is on all the online merchants and catalogs.
> 
> Harry


Hetalks about marketing type for Shimano, but send us straightto an online merchant's catalog to support his argument. :doh

Seems kinda fishy to me. If that site was a consumer report type site I might take that info seriously,unfortunately that is from Penn I'm guessing who is just trying to pettle their product with online merchants and catalogs just like everyone else. Not an "authoritative source for unbiased analysis" if you ask me.


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Freespool (11/4/2007)*
> 
> 
> > *alum maverick (11/4/2007)*shimano i got a stella two stradics and a torium 30 and a van staal use to have a penn sold it.
> ...




Bullshit. The Penn V series is a better reel than the Shimanos. You can go on and on about smooth, but the fact is the Penn is smoother. It starts smoother when cold or hot - actually, the Penn starts the same. The Penn is beefier built with stronger and better parts inside. The Penn finish is heads and tails better than the Shimano though the S reels have improved over older ones. Shimano still employs the hydrothermal drag thingy which if you don't understand it please refrain from posting about the reels compared to Penn. The only area I could say Shimano is better than Penn in the International V vs Shimano A series is the handle and then only a little bit.


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## BlackFlag (Oct 23, 2007)

Well the majority of my reels are shimano and the majority of the reels i have ever used were shimanos, but lately i have had the most trouble out of em. 2 stradics, not working properly, 4 catala 300's out of the box broke within 10 minutes. My cousin in louisiana bought a torsa 30 and the first time he used it the lever drag system wouldn't engage after the first fish. So i am at least a little skeptical at this point


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Freespool (11/4/2007)*I don't know any good billfish guys that fish with penns, Tiagras and TLD's all the way.




Well, how about me. I own plenty of Shimanos, but only when they are the best. You've been sold a bill of goods my friend. Oh, and btw, how many billfish you caught this year? Anyway, the fact is they're both good. Accurates are even better if you can afford them and afford to baby and maintain them. Either will get the job done, but the V series Penn is the better reel. No doubt and you'd be hard pressed to find someone with technical knowledge to argue differently.



Now, back a few years ago, the Tiagra was better. Penn's were the old news and many guys started with Shimanos. No problem, they were better, but if you go look now you'll see that changing, but the difference is small enough that isn't so important. That said, go find 10 guys who have blown up or locked up trolling reels on fish and I will bet that 70% of them have been Shimanos. They are notorious for having drag plate screws come loose inside if you didn't know.


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## Hot Reels (Oct 3, 2007)

Shimano reels are (for the most part) smoother, Penn reels are (for the most part) cheaper, more durable (can withstand much more abuse).

Sky


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *LuckyLady (11/5/2007)*To each his own but I just sold 5 Penn International 50's and purchased Shimano Tyrnos to replace them. A little lighter capability but agreat high-speed retrieve and drag system on this reel. I believe these reels will handle anything I am likely to catch in the Gulf and are a lot more versatile than the bulky 50's.




If that is the case, then you had the wrong reels for your application anyway. Should have gone with the X series internationals though.


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## JLMass (Oct 1, 2007)

so inshore shimano =win

for offshore Penn= tie with Shimano 

and foreverything else = personal prefrence


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

I've used Penn, Shimano, Accurate, VanStall and a few others. Shimano and Penn for the most part. Hard to beat a 4,6 or 9/0 Penn for bottom fishing for the most part. I personally don't see buying a 500.00 reel for a jack or grouper. Caught plenty on the old stand by's. Ease of use and able to take serious abuse sets the 4/0, 6/0 and 9/0 aside for that. I have had a Accurate tear up in my own hands at the lumps. I have see the Tiagra lock up with the drag screw and plat Hal is talking about. I have totally destroyed a Penn 50VSW on a big blue. Only advice I have? Fish with what you are comfortable with. I have seen plenty of fish come to the boat. I have seen good performance on all the above reels. I personally like the Tiagras for trolling. My preference. I know all have good and badpoints. Fish what you are comfortable with.


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## tljbabc (Oct 22, 2007)

chicken bone i can remember when all you had was a pen 706 with all that noise and shit:moon:moon


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## Get'n Wade (Oct 28, 2007)

Penn! Their spinning reels don't have all the cute pretty littlegold painted plastic parts on them like Shimano, but if you are looking for a reel to match your rims on your car, truckor boat trailer....oke


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *AUBuilder (11/5/2007)*
> 
> 
> > *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*I'm not talking about toy reels. I'm talking about serious offshore gear. See the attachments...the larger gears and shafts are Penn, the smaller are Shimano. See http://charkbait.com/cs/csrp.htmfor more comparisons between Penn and Shimano. The hype is on all the online merchants and catalogs.
> ...






I wouldn't say Charkbait is propaganda, but there is a history. Shimano tells dealers what to sell their products for. This is clearly illegal, but never enforced, but Shimano evidently got POd at them for discounting their items and threatened to cut them off so, from what I know, Charkbait told them to go to hell. Since then, he's been firmly anti-Shimano, but their site does present the facts.



For some reason, people have become obsessed with smooth. Whoever marketed smooth was a genius, but as far as OFFSHORE TROLLING REELS are concerned, Penn is smoother. I'm talking about the newest lines from Shimano and Penn, the A and V series respectively. Penn starts up smoother and the drags are consistent within the temperature range. Shimano reels need to be warmed up or they have a higher start up inertia. This is FACT borne out by the manufacturer studies and even our own first hand experience.



FYI: when we set Shimano drags cold, we make Trip or one of the young guys run the dock a couple times to get them warm. If you don't do that, you'll end up with drags set too low. On Penn V series reels, the settings are the same. FACT. If you're setting drags when its super hot and your reels might have been in a hot truck, watch out - you can get the drags set so bad that you break fish off later that night when the reel is cold - WE DID THAT THIS SUMMER! RIGHT WADE?



Anyone here who is reading this who actually wants to know the deal, take the time to look at a set of Shimano plans and read their literature. You want to know about the "Hydrothermal Drag" adjustment feature. In short, this is a liquid filled cylinder that supposedly expands to increase pressure on the drag plates as the reel heats up. This is to combat what they refer to as "Drag Fade" during a long fight. This item is pure engineering BS and the former president of Shimano America quit over it saying they were selling techno sizzle instead of steak. But their hydrothermal drag thingy tells us something very important. Shimano drags are inconsistent under heat. They fade according to their own literature to the point that they engineered a tiny shock absorber to adjust for you. In my mind, that is BS. Penn's drags don't do that and they don't have some tiny liquid fired shock absorber sitting in your reel like a tiny time bomb waiting to explode or worse - tamper with your drag setting. 



What if it leaks oil onto the drag plates? - lost fish.



What if it overcompensates? - lost fish. 



What if its total BS? marketing hype.



What if you don't want your drag adjusted and prefer to use the lever and be in control - buy Penn.



Anyway, if the people arguing about this who obviously don't know the difference would take the time, I think they would change their minds. Oh, and one more thing, the "Pro teams" you see fishing Shimanos are sponsored, but most of them have the reels blue-printed and the Hydrothermal Drag crap removed.


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## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

unless anyone here owns stock in a company, or buildsthe reels at the plant, there's no reason to get so upset. I recently sold all of my Penn 50 wides and will be replacing them with shimano TLD 50 wides. They may not be as durable as the metal penns, but for standup (which is what I do)- the weight is much better. I have caught a blue on a TLD 25 with no problem, and500+ #blue on a Penn 30wide with no problems. It's really an application and personal preference issue. They are both quality reels, IMO.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Where's the debate about the hot pink Barbie reel. I think I like that one better than all the rest. :banghead:banghead:banghead


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

Everybody knows that the spiderman reel whipes the floor with the barbie reel......sheeesh


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## Cuz (Oct 1, 2007)

I think it's the Snoopy reel that's the best!!


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## bigfishrookie (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm with Harry and Xanadu on this. I'm a mixed bag- mostly Penns. Durability, replaceable parts, ease of use. Unfortunately we have peps on this forum that will comment without really knowing. I've looked at some profiles and some of these guys offering are not even 20 years old. Now some of you may say, what difference does age make. Well- it's called wisdom and experience over 30 years of fishing- something that Xanadu and Harry both have.

Besides, people use different reels for different reasons for different fishing. Just like you use different utensils/appliances in the kitchen. The initial post question needs to be defined. Are we talking 'if you were stranded on a island' or are we talking specific fish targets. Obviously I'm using different tackle if I'm fishing flounder than if I'm trolling deep.

Dollar for dollar, pound for pound- Penn for me.


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## MR.STAAL (Oct 22, 2007)

> *Harry Brosofsky (11/4/2007)*Penn if you are considering only unimportant things like gear strength, drag quality and consistency, finish, etc. Shimano if you are only looking at marketing hype ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Harry




um penn, if your looking for something cheap, rough, an heavy



shimano, light, best quality, super smooth, better casting, last alot longer !



ive had a penn an it lasted 3 months now i have to manually put my bail down... it doesnt catch on the roller so i try to set hook an it loses fish, an it heavy an 3 fat women on a tricycle.....



hands down for shimano


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## MR.STAAL (Oct 22, 2007)

haha there talking about fish caught... i caught a 20# on my stradic 2500 with half a spool or less of power pro........i just locked the drag an held on.... an penn would have stripped the gears an made an loud sound...like





BOOM!:hoppingmad


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## Harry Brosofsky (Oct 4, 2007)

> *AUBuilder *Hetalks about marketing type for Shimano, but send us straightto an online merchant's catalog to support his argument. :dohSeems kinda fishy to me. If that site was a consumer report type site I might take that info seriously,unfortunately that is from Penn I'm guessing who is just trying to pettle their product with online merchants and catalogs just like everyone else. Not an "authoritative source for unbiased analysis" if you ask me.


That merchant stopped selling Shimano due to unfair business practices, like price fixing, forcing him to buy specific inventory, etc., as well as customer complaints.His site is an e-commercesite thatis NOT sponsored by Penn. It has nothing to do with Penn, other than selling Penn (along with Accurate, Avet, Newell, and others). The photos speak for themselves. BTW, he speaks very highly of some of the other brands he sells and calls a spade a spade on the Penn stuff.

Harry


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