# Jeff Millers Letter To Gary Locke on AJ Closure



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

At bottom of page is a email link to respond to Jeff Miller on the AJ closure. Please send him a email and let him know what you think.To see the actural letter see: http://www.gulf1.com/Elected/JeffMiller/FrameMiller.htm</DIV></DIV>October 21,2009 
The Honorable Gary Locke, Secretary 
U.S. Department of Commerce 
1401 Constitution Avenue, NW 
Washington, DC 20230 </DIV><P class=MsoNormal>Dear Mr. Secretary, <P class=MsoNormal>On October 19, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's National Marine Fisheries Service suddenly and without advance notice closed the greater amberjack season in the Gulf of Mexico. This sudden closure will have a hard and lasting impact on the Gulf Coast communities and those who depend on this season for their livelihood. <P class=MsoNormal>The unexpected closing of the season is having an overwhelmingly negative impact in my district. Currently, the City of Destin is hosting the Destin Fishing Rodeo, attracting over 30,000 participating anglers. Sports fishermen from across the country take part in this event and the economic boost to Destin is considerable. With 11 days left in the rodeo, Destin stands to lose significant tourism dollars, a main economic driver. This loss is in addition to the long term impact of those not wanting to come to this event in the future, fearing they will be turned away with no notice. The effect on area charter boat captains and fishermen is devastating, and they have had no time to prepare for this abrupt turn of events. Considering the lack of notice and the widespread impact, I ask that the season be extended to allow the rodeo to be completed and for the area to formulate a recovery plan for those charter boat captains and fishermen impacted by this closure. <P class=MsoNormal>Each year, charter boat captains and fishermen tell me that that the snapper and amberjack populations are flourishing in the Gulf. However, it seems that the NMFS keeps cutting back on the Annual Catch Limits (ACLs). Because the ACL seems to be met earlier and earlier each year, it appears that the population is, in fact, growing. It is imperative to the fishing and tourism industries that the most accurate information is used when setting these limits, and it would seem that these low ACLs may be based on outdated information. I have been notified that the next stock assessment will. not be conducted until 2010. Because of the far reaching economic and personal impact of these decisions, I would encourage the NMFS to consider temporarily extending the limits until the new data comes in next year. I would also encourage the NMFS to seriously consider an improved advance notification system whereby anglers learn of a season's closure much more than five days in advance. <P class=MsoNormal>For far too long, those in the fishing industry have taken the brunt of bureaucratic decisions. Little consideration seems to be given to the impact on citizens trying to earn a living. For the men and women who depend on the Gulf of Mexico to provide for their families, these consequences are extreme. As the proposed season is to end Saturday at 12:01 a.m, CST, I ask that you look into this matter immediately and inform my office as to what recourse is available. <P class=MsoNormal>With warm personal regards, I am 
Sincerely, 
Jeff Miller 
Member of Congress<P class=MsoNormal>I'm Jeff Miller and that's what I think, what do you think? 
Please feel free to email me at: http://www.gulf1.net/Elected/JeffMiller/Jeffmail.asp<P class=MsoNormal>Here is another link to his email http://jeffmiller.house.gov/Contact/ContactForm.htm</DIV>


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

jeff miller rocks!!!!

he hit the nail on the head

i was going to send a letter of appreciation but the links did not work

maybe folks are starting to come around to whats going on


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't know why the link is not working on here. But try coping and pasting and see if that works.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

> *The LaJess II (10/22/2009)*I don't know why the link is not working on here. But try coping and pasting and see if that works.


Your links are pointing to something on your computer.You more than likely copied and pasted from your email. Thatsometimes screws things up. So we can not get to your computer and the links do not work. I got the info out of the links though.

http://www.gulf1.com/Elected/JeffMiller/FrameMiller.htm

http://www.gulf1.net/Elected/JeffMiller/Jeffmail.asp


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks Telum. I also went in a posted a new link at the bottom of his letter.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

I am very happy that the politicians are finally taking note. However, where have they been for the last few years????

The only reason they are doing something is because so many of their constituents are so pissed off, and contacting them on an hourly basis wanting action.

Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic they are FINALLY doing something. However, we all need to keep the pressure on them. Otherwise, they will just slink back into the darkness without actually doing anything about it.

What we REALLY need is someone to sponsor a bill in congress to deal with this BS.


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## Bay Ranger (Aug 25, 2008)

I received the same email from Rep. Miller. This was my response back to him:

Mr Miller,

I wholeheartedly support the letter that you sent to Mr. Locke. 

I encourage you and other members of *<U>our*</U> Congress to bring pressure on the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) to refrain from making these far reaching decisions based upon outdated and/or questionable data. For example, as a recreational fisherman, I have personally witnessed the abundance of red snapper in the coastal areas of Florida and Alabama. Many area anglers will support my contention that the red snapper fishery is in very good health and does not warrant the overzealous protection that NMFS believes is necessary. 

I personally invite you and your fellow coastal Alabama congressman to take a catch and release red snapper fishing trip to witness first hand the state of the red snapper fishery. Perhaps then you will understand the frustration and exasperation anglers and the charter fleet feel following the arbitrary nature of the NMFS decisions.



I encourage everyone on this form to get off some form letter to our representatives telling them (in a polite, factual manner) what we think of the NMFS actiona. Perhaps with some congressional pressure we can get the NMFS to act in a responsible way.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

thanks lajess for the heads up!

thanks jon for the links!

here is what i sent

dear sir
i read your letter to the secretary of commerce about the recent amberjack closing and you hit a home run with thousands of constituents with that. you sir have my vote. thank you. please keep up the good fight. there are also many other impacts that were not mentioned. the millions or possibly billions spent on boats and other related equipment. noaa knows not what they do.
thank you again sir for the great representation.

david swinney

everybody should take just a minute to do the same 

lets show em the power of the pff

this is actually getting something done

jeff miller has the power to make things happen

JUST DO IT!!!!!!!


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Here is my letter:

_The recent closure of greater amberjack for recreational fishermen is unacceptable. It adds insult to injury after the extremely short red snapper season._

_I don't need to tell you that people are tired of being abused by NMFS, NOAA, and their elected officials. I applaud you for trying to do something, and at the same time caution you that it still is not enough. If any of my elected officials intend to keep their jobs next election, there needs to be action on this issue. Immediate action._

_Your constituents are angry, and rightfully so. Keep this in mind as you consider your next step in fighting this trajesty._


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Slow down guys. Before we make Congressman J. Miller our hero let's make sure he is out to represent all anglers not just the charter or commercial side. I don't think he had a single comment for the recreational angler in his letter. I sent him an e-mail and asked about that and invited him back to the forum to engage us as a group in discussion as to what could be done to give recreational anglers a fair say and fair share of our marine resources,



Kim


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## Pass Time (Feb 6, 2009)

Kim, I was just thinking the same thing. Although I applaud his stand on this issue Jeff Millers letter only addressed the economic impact on the charter sector and its employes. Although I am sympathetic with them in their own fight, because I am a fisherman, Nothing was said by mr. Miller about taking away the fishing from the rest of us private rec fisherman who are also impacted by this decision.I paid good money this year to purchase an offshore boat, rig it to my liking including a new cobia station, outfitted it withnew fishing gear for 5 anglers, stocked the large tackle station several times over, updated the electronics, performed some needed maintenance repairs, spent tons of moneyon fuel and ice, and cold drinks, ramp fees, and food,etc, etc, etc, all of which directly benefitted the local economy. Spent alot of time and money searching for that honey hole that would win theLargest AJ in the 25' and under private division in the Destin Rodeo...which also cost a few dollars to enter. I only hope Mr. Miller can see that we privateers are affected by this too. Keep in mind that as the "numbers" come in, wherever they come from, this will not be the last jerk leg closure. You can bet your last dollar that grouper season will be closed very soon or shortened again, trigger and mingo will be closed due to overfishing because of added pressure on those stocks as well. It is coming, and what makes me sick is that that the rec sector is supposedly the only sector "exceeding" its quota.I for one would like to see a total investigation into the actions of this governing body. Me thinks this whole thing stinks.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

the letter was to the secretary of COMMERCE

which also is noaas boss


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## CHICO (Oct 2, 2007)

whatever, I like cow doctors response, tell them how it really is. I mean can you not swear in a letter to these guys? Short and sweat or long and sweat is out of the question for these retards. I just want to kick a few people in the FACE right now, I did not but my boat to pleasure ride, I hate that.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

I sent my appreciation to Mr Miller with the reminder that the fight is not over and I expect him to follow this to the end....


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## Hydro Therapy 2 (Sep 11, 2008)

+1


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## choppedliver (Apr 4, 2009)

Dear Sir,



I applaud your recent letter to Gary Locke concerning closure of Amberjack fishing in the Gulf. I am concerned however that your letter makes no mention of recreational interests.



The fishing industry needs someone to take charge in Washington and stand up for the little guy, the recreational fisherman, whose rights to this public resource are slowly but surely eroding away. 



The recent, unexpected and abrupt closure of Amberjack fishing is simply outrageous. It's bad enough that the red snapper season is unacceptably short and in the hottest part of the year. Come visit www.pensacolafishingforum.com and see the hundreds of reports of boat, after boat, after boat, catching so many large red snapper that it is very difficult to catch anything else. The "endangered red snapper" is a running joke. Now it's the AJ's? And what about the Grouper? They were in the news recently, new regulations are in place for them too ( see http://www.pnj.com/article/20091005/NEWS01/910050308/Grouper-fishing-rules-set-to-get-tighter ). So when the government gets through regulating every species of fish that we anglers like to catch and eat, what is left? 



Come visit the Pensacola fishing forum and see what 10,000 members think of the government saying to us "If you want to eat red snapper or AJ, you cannot catch them, you must buy them from a commercial fisherman". Does it make sense that they are "overfished" but the commercial sector can keep catching them? Does this resource belong to the public? Or does it belong to commercial interests with organized financial backing and millions of dollars to pad influential pockets?



The economic benefit of recreational fishing measures in the billions, and though the recreational sector may not have the organization and monetary backing that the commercial sector does, I assure you the recreational sector has many more voters, and we are angry beyond belief. We as a whole have been disorganized and ineffective at voicing our concerns in the past. I assure you this latest assault on recreational fisherman is causing a groundswell movement, and we will be heard loud and clear, and those who are responsible will fall.



This is clearly a case of too much government, making too many rules, based on flawed, outdated, or non existing data. I imagine if you follow the buck, you will see the real reason behind these regulations. 



We salute you for making a stand, but the fight cannot stop here, and I hope you will do everything in your power to make sure that our rights are protected.


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## ?MEGA (Jan 31, 2009)




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## choppedliver (Apr 4, 2009)

> *OMEGA (10/22/2009)*<EMBED height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=425 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/nT0OqHr3wHQ&hl=en&fs=1& allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>



I love my country just fine, which is why I wont roll over and play dead while crooked polititicians turn it into the USSA


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

That's a nice letter. It is, however, a bit late. That is a typical politician's ploy to make you, the voter, think that "hey,Jeff Miller really has it on the ball and he really doescare." If he really cared, he would be pro-active and be involved before stupid rules are imposed, or he would introduce legislation to require the agencies to administer the programs based upon extensive, double-blind, scientific data as opposed to bureaucratic interpelations and lobbyist's desires. You could never convince me that the legislatures did not know this was coming. A high level bureaucrat is not going to allow this type of far-reaching ruling to be implemented without passing it by the law makers, and getting their approval, before they are placed into action.

If you will look at Mr. Miller's record, you will determine that this is typical for him, tostomp his feet, for show, after the damage is done. As stated in other posts, you cannot turn rulings aroundonce implemented, except by law suit.The proof of the pudding would be to see if Mr. Miller would be willing to join a class action law suit against the NOAA to get the ruling turned around. My guess is not.


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## Shop Keeper (Oct 17, 2009)

Hmm, I've read most all of the above. It is reactionary, it does not speak loud enough for recreational fishermen (people). But , it is something. I feel like I'm still swollen from the slap, so I'll stop here.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Given the SOS charter boat plan implications, i.e. if SoS is fully implemented Charter boats can fish year round until they meet their individual quotas- <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If I were the Secretary of Commerce belowwould be my initial thoughts on a rough draft answer to Congressman Miller's letter. <o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Note the "Total Spin" in the below draft letter, <o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">It does nothing to address the concerns of private boat owning citizens<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">But the way Jeff Miller's letter was writtenit only addressed his concerns about the Destin charter fleet operators. <o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Isee this type of response on other government issues at my job....It Sucks but that is the way it works...Garbage in garbage out<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Dear Congressman Miller,<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> I assure you the Department of Commercevia NOAA andNMFSis working hard to ensurethat all Federal law requirements are met with respect to stopping the overfishing of importantGulf of Mexico reef fish specieslike Red Snapper and Amberjack and at the same time to provide a reasonable fishing season for <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Gulf of Mexico</st1lace> recreational anglers.Recently the Gulf Council responsible to NMFS for making recommendations regarding<st1lace w:st="on">Gulf of Mexico</st1lace> fishery policy,moved on a plan to provide charter boatoperators the flexibility required to set up individual fishing quotas (IFQ's). <o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> If implemented in the near futurecharter fleet IFQ's will serve to provide charter operatorsthe much needed flexibility to fish all year long until their IFQ's are met. The new plan calls for charter fleet IFQ's to havethe flexibility offered by the system currently in place for commercial fishing boat operators in the <st1lace w:st="on">Gulf of Mexico</st1lace>. Many changes are coming rapidly andthey will assist greatly inpreventing the total closurefor various reef fish specieslike the one you have described during the on going fishing tournamentin the <st1:State w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Florida</st1lace></st1:State> panhandle. <o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Blah, blah , Blah<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Blah, Blah , Blah<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Thank you for yourletter and concerns regardingthis highly important issue.<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">sincerely,<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">----<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mark W<o></o>


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Here is the response I got from Don Gaetz....

<U>_Thanks so much for your email and for yhour support and encouragement.

As a state senator I have no jurisdiction over NMFS but I believe we all have to push back when bad decisions like this are made by uninformed and badly motivated bureaucrats.

Respectfully,

Senator Don Gaetz
_</U>


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

And, where is the letter from our Governor, soon to be U.S. Senator? OK Charley, you have now been spotted hiding behind the garbage can. If you want our votes speak up!.

opcorn

Please stand by for a nice "foot stomping" letter from Charley Christ's public relations people telling us that if we will vote for Charley, and send money, he will work in our very personal interests. :looser


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

im confused

mitch says miller cant do anything except a law suit

don gaetz says he has no jurisdiction

i thought these fellas where called legislators

why can they not legislate?

arent they the same bunch who voted for magnuson-stevens?

cant they take it back?

or change it

wtf

the way everybody sounds on here is like lets justput a gun to our heads and pull the trigger

i will not believe there is nothing our representives can do

and if it has come to this LETS BREAK OUT THE MARBLES


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I wonder if Crist's opponent for the senate seat marco rubio and his staff would take up our cause?

Mark W


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

mitch does this say that congress can do something?

*INTERNATIONAL FISHERY AGREEMENTS *

*104-297* 

*(a) IN GENERAL.*--No governing international fishery agreement, bycatch reduction agreement, or Pacific Insular Area fishery agreement shall become effective with respect to the United States before the close of the first 120 calendar days (excluding any days in a period for which the Congress is adjourned sine die) after the date on which the President transmits to the House of Representatives and to the Senate a document setting forth the text of such governing international fishery agreement, bycatch reduction agreement, or Pacific Insular Area fishery agreement. A copy of the document shall be delivered to each House of Congress on the same day and shall be delivered to the Clerk of the House of Representatives, if the House is not in session, and to the Secretary of the Senate, if the Senate is not in session. 



*(b) REFERRAL TO COMMITTEES.*--Any document described in subsection (a) shall be immediately referred in the House of Representatives to the Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries, and in the Senate to the Committees on Commerce and Foreign Relations. 



*(c) CONGRESSIONAL PROCEDURES.-- *



*(1) RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND SENATE.*-- The provisions of this section are enacted by the Congress-- 

(A) as an exercise of the rulemaking power of the House of Representatives and the Senate, respectively, and they are deemed a part of the rules of each House, respectively, but applicable only with respect to the procedure to be followed in that House in the case of fishery agreement resolutions described in paragraph (2), and they supersede other rules only to the extent that they are inconsistent therewith; and 

(B) with full recognition of the constitutional right of either House to change the rules (so far as they relate to the procedure of that House) at any time, and in the same manner and to the same extent as in the case of any other rule of that House. 



*104-297* 

*(2) DEFINITION.*--For purposes of this subsection, the term "fishery agreement resolution" refers to a joint resolution of either House of Congress-- 

(A) the effect of which is to prohibit the entering into force and effect of any governing international fishery agreement, bycatch reduction agreement, or Pacific Insular Area fishery agreement the text of which is transmitted to the Congress pursuant to subsection (a); and 

(B) which is reported from the Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries of the House of Representatives or the Committee on Commerce or the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate, not later than 45 days after the date on which the document described in subsection (a) relating to that agreement is transmitted to the Congress. 



*(3) PLACEMENT ON CALENDAR.*--Any fishery agreement resolution upon being reported shall immediately be placed on the appropriate calendar. 



*(4) FLOOR CONSIDERATION IN THE HOUSE.*-- 

(A) A motion in the House of Representatives to proceed to the consideration of any fishery agreement resolution shall be highly privileged and not debatable. An amendment to the motion shall not be in order, nor shall it be in order to move to reconsider the vote by which the motion is agreed to or disagreed to. 

(B) Debate in the House of Representatives on any fishery agreement resolution shall be limited to not more than 10 hours, which shall be divided equally between those favoring and those opposing the resolution. A motion further to limit debate shall not be debatable. It shall not be in order to move to recommit any fishery agreement resolution or to move to reconsider the vote by which any fishery agreement resolution is agreed to or disagreed to. 

(C) Motions to postpone, made in the House of Representatives with respect to the consideration of any fishery agreement resolution, and motions to proceed to the consideration of other business, shall be decided without debate. 

(D) All appeals from the decisions of the Chair relating to the application of the Rules of the House of Representatives to the procedure relating to any fishery agreement resolution shall be decided without debate. 

(E) Except to the extent specifically provided in the preceding provisions of this subsection, consideration of any fishery agreement resolution shall be governed by the Rules of the House of Representatives applicable to other bills and resolutions in similar circumstances. 



*(5) FLOOR CONSIDERATION IN THE SENATE.*-- 

(A) A motion in the Senate to proceed to the consideration of any fishery agreement resolution shall be privileged and not debatable. An amendment to the motion shall not be in order, nor shall it be in order to move to reconsider the vote by which the motion is agreed to or disagreed to. 

(B) Debate in the Senate on any fishery agreement resolution and on all debatable motions and appeals in connection therewith shall be limited to not more than 10 hours. The time shall be equally divided between, and controlled by, the majority leader and the minority leader or their designees. 

(C) Debate in the Senate on any debatable motion or appeal in connection with any fishery agreement resolution shall be limited to not more than 1 hour, to be equally divided between, and controlled by, the mover of the motion or appeal and the manager of the resolution, except that if the manager of the resolution is in favor of any such motion or appeal, the time in opposition thereto shall be controlled by the minority leader or his designee. The majority leader and the minority leader, or either of them, may allot additional time to any Senator during the consideration of any debatable motion or appeal, from time under their control with respect to the applicable fishery agreement resolution. 

(D) A motion in the Senate to further limit debate is not debatable. A motion to recommit any fishery agreement resolution is not in order.


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

> *nextstep (10/23/2009)*
> 
> don gaetz says he has no jurisdiction
> 
> ...


There are state legislators who draftbillswhichare signed by the governor into state law.Then there are federal legislators (congress) who draft bills which are signed into federal law by the president. Magnuson Stevens was drafted in the senate and House on the federal level and signed by President Bush, so no, there is nothing a member of a state legislator can do.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

gaetz is state

miller is fed


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

104-297 has to do with the International Treaties relating to fishing agreements between countries, and do not have any impact on our Gulf Coast Fisheries.


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

This crap is really beginning to piss me off. I don't fish for AJ often, but when a cone headed butt kissing bureaucrat decides that they know better, or decides because someone slipped them some green, to make changes that affect millions of fishermen, then I'm in. 

The way that we can win this, to get this changed back is to make the idiots who made those changes fear for their job.

The problem with that is that they are soo well insulated, up and down, and they have powerful allies. 

For example, the agency that made the changes was the National Marine Fisheries Service,a Division ofthe Nation al Oceonic and Atmosperic Agency, which is part of the Department of ? Commerce, (I think). Under the NMFS is the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission, who was feeding the NMFS with information, supposedly, but they are also the agency that was created to be the advocate for "us".:banghead See: http://www.gsmfc.org/#:[email protected]:[email protected]

If we could put together a list of mail addresses of every head of every agency, and public politician, that has any connection to this cluster f##$, and bombard them with snail mail, email, and phone calls, I think we might get their attention; let them know we are not happy and we want their jobs. This would have to be a widespread program, not just from here in our little corner of the world, but, we have friends everywhere, and we are members of a lot of different forums. Anyone have time to do some research? I will spend some time drafting a form letter for us - the real fishermen/the recreational fishermen.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

mitch

if you scan thru magnuson-stevens it is a part of it and maytie into domestic fishing

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/magact/

if you find youself with some spare time here is the link,would appreciate your take on it 

its all a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me

we could discuss it one wednesday night


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

you slipped that one in while i was typing

they do fall under the department of commerce


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

What sort of research needs to be done? I am up for anything you guys want to do.

Do we need every address of these guys? I could work on compiling a list in my free time. What else do you need?

What we really need is a lawyer that would file a class action lawsuit with every last one of us listed as a litigant. That would be GREAT. How many are on PFF? It would be a long list, that is for sure...


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

In the letters being sent out we need to address as to how data is flawed for recreational fisherman. Please watch the video all the way through and Jim explains how bad the problem is and who is responsible.</DIV></DIV>



</DIV></DIV></DIV>As Jim Donofrio executive director of RFA stated in the video I posted change has got to be in the way they manage recreational fishing. They account for our fish in the amount of lbs and it should be in the amount of fish caught not lbs. Every year we go up in a 1/2 in. to 1 in. a fish. We are catching more poundage but LESS FISH. So over fishing occurs because we are catching more poundage not fish. So automatically we are being punished by the system that is trying to create conservation.</DIV></DIV>*So in a nutshell the more closure the bigger the fish get so based on lbs and not fish we are screwed if change is not made.*</DIV></DIV>


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

know your enemies 

http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_detail.aspx?id=610

who else?


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

sounds like these folks are writing the rules

PEW ENVIRONMENT GROUP Chairman Rodney Barreto Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission Farris Bryant Building 620 South Meridian Street Tallahassee, FL 32399-1600 Submitted electronically on April 7, 2009 *RE: State Consistency with Federal Gulf Grouper Regulations (68B-14, F.A.C.) *Dear Chairman Barreto, Thank you for the opportunity to provide input regarding the proposed change to grouper regulations in the Gulf of Mexico. We recognize the important role that the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) plays in jointly managing the grouper fisheries off the Florida coast. We offer our support for the staff recommendation to make regulations for gag and red grouper in the Gulf of Mexico consistent with federal regulations. Gag has been determined by the latest stock assessment to be undergoing overfishing, or fished at an unsustainable rate. Indications from a recent stock assessment update point to a continuing downward trend in gag populations. The proposed regulations are designed primarily to protect gag from overfishing but also include provisions to increase fishing opportunities for red grouper in response to data that show this species is in better shape than in years past. Consistent federal and state regulations are important to bring fishing rates for gag to a more sustainable level and can make monitoring and enforcement more effective while minimizing confusion for the fishing public. Since most of the Gulf landings for gag and red grouper occur in Florida, the FWC has a particularly important role in the management of these species. By enacting consistent regulations, the FWC can help ensure that Gulf grouper populations are managed at sustainable levels. Sincerely, Holly Binns Chad Hanson Project Manager, Ending Overfishing in the Southeast Senior Associate, Policy Analysis Pew Environment Group Pew Environment Group Tallahassee, FL Crawfordville, FL cc: Commissioner Kathy Barco Commissioner Brian Yablonski Commissioner Ronald Bergeron Mr. Ken Haddad Commissioner Richard Corbett Mr. Mark Robson Commissioner Dwight Stephenson Mr. William Teehan Commissioner Kenneth Wright Dr. Roy Crabtree


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## Runned Over (Sep 6, 2008)

> *The LaJess II (10/23/2009)* In the letters being sent out we need to address as to how data is flawed for recreational fisherman. They account for our fish in the amount of lbs and it should be in the amount of fish caught not lbs.


</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>I cut out some quote, but didn't change content. </DIV></DIV>This raises the question, to me, that seeing that NO ONE has asked, or checked/recorded, what I have caught, how do they ESTIMATE I have caughtof any species?</DIV></DIV>I can assure you they estimate that I caught ALOT more than I have actually have. :banghead</DIV></DIV>How do they calculate what a Rec fisherman catches?</DIV></DIV>Not sur how I messed this up but sorry....</DIV></DIV></DIV>


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Run Dover (10/23/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *The LaJess II (10/23/2009)* In the letters being sent out we need to address as to how data is flawed for recreational fisherman. They account for our fish in the amount of lbs and it should be in the amount of fish caught not lbs.
> ...


Scott I'm still trying to get the answer. That's the point. No one knows exactly. That is why the data is so flawed. I have seen so many formulas and I still can't do the math. Just as you said not one person from a agency has ever called me or stopped me to do a survey to see how many pounds of fish I have caught. I've had the FWC stop me and ask for license and check what I've caught. But never weighed my fish. LOL!!!


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

> *angus_cow_doctor (10/23/2009)*What sort of research needs to be done? I am up for anything you guys want to do.
> 
> Do we need every address of these guys? I could work on compiling a list in my free time. What else do you need?
> 
> What we really need is a lawyer that would file a class action lawsuit with every last one of us listed as a litigant. That would be GREAT. How many are on PFF? It would be a long list, that is for sure...


Names, addresses, email addresses, telephone numbers for:

Secretary of Commerce,

Heads, of NAOO, and all the under agencies, and heads of all gulf coast regional offices of each.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

It will be at the top of the to-do list.


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

ELECTION TIME COMING UP AROUND THE CORNER, THATS WHY YOU'RE HEARING A LITTLE PEEP FROM THEM. GUESS YOU GOVERNOR WILL SOUND OFF ON THIS ONE AS WELL, EVEN THOUGHT HE NEVER RESPONDED TO ANY OF MY LETTERS OF PROTEST ON FISHING ISSUES THE PAST TWO YEARS. OF COURSE I'M SURE HE WILL GET THE SENATE SEAT BECAUSE FISHING MATTERS DON'T HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON THE WAY MOST PEOPLE VOTE. 

I KNOWTHIS WILL MAKE A BUNCH OF YOU MAD, BUTREMEMBER, CRIST HAD THE POWER TO PUT THE BRAKES ON THESE CLOSURES AND NEW LIMITS AND RESTRICTIONSIN STATE WATERS. GO AHEAD AND DEFEND HIM ALL YOU WANT, I WOULDN'T VOTE FOR HIM TO CLEAN SEWERS LET ALONE BE A SENATOR REPRESENTING ME.

STATES RIGHTS ARE CONSTITUTIONAL.


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## The Raven (Oct 8, 2007)

It's unfortunate, but when a segment ofthe American people keep asking for more government, every American gets more government. Government bureaucrats, by their very nature, live to expand their own power. It's how they measure their success. 

Federal bureaucrats are like cockroaches. There's no such thing as one, and when they're in your house they're in every room...every cupboard and corner. When people elect leaders who promise more government interference in our lives, they're fools to believe that the limits those politicians promise during the election will be the limits they restrict themselves to once elected. 

_<SPAN class=body ZoEeN="0" GCq4w="0">"Bureaucracies are inherently antidemocratic. Bureaucrats derive their power from their position in the structure, not from their relations with the people they are supposed to serve. The people are not masters of the bureaucracy, but its clients."
_<SPAN class=bodybold> ~ Alan Keyes

<SPAN class=bodybold>In America, our government was established to serve the people. Our founding fathers were terribly concerned about the possibility of a large and intrusive government. They wrote the Bill of Rights specifically to prevent the federal government from growing beyond certain specified limits. Unfortunately, those limits are meaningless in this country today. Violating the Constitutionis nothing more than"daily business" at the federal level. Every time the government gets larger, the power of "we the people" gets smaller. It doesn't matter if we're talking about your liberty to catch a fish, or to keep the fruits of your own labor. Little by little...and much faster lately...we are being enslaved. 

<SPAN class=bodybold>


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## The Raven (Oct 8, 2007)

> *CHICO (10/22/2009)*whatever, I like cow doctors response, tell them how it really is. I mean can you not swear in a letter to these guys? Short and sweat or long and sweat is out of the question for these retards. I just want to kick a few people in the FACE right now, I did not but my boat to pleasure ride, I hate that.


Believe it or not, it was rather common for early Americans to "get in the face" of their elected representatives. But the point of keeping foul language out of your communications today, is because you don't want to give the elected person receiving your letter that "easy excuse" to dismiss you. 

It's common for bureaucrats and elected officials to simply ignore you if you become "coarse" in your speaking or writing. It's arrogance to do it, in my opinion. But it's the way government works these days. I'm not suggesting you have no right to swear at a congressman. I'm just saying that if you want your voice heard you'll be more effective if you keep your discussion civil.


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

Let's try to stay focused. This is about the closure, and/or restrictions, on the recreational fishermen's lifestyle, which in turn controls billions of dollars poured into the economy affecting thousands of jobs relating to the recreational fishing industry.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Ok. Right off the bat I found this site:

http://www.oig.doc.gov/oig/whats_new/000645.html

It is Dept. of Commerce, and has to do with the lawsuits against NMFS.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

more enemies

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/what/bios/


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

<H2>How old is THAT picture??? I mean really? He got a degree in 1976, a year before I was born, and yet he looks younger than I do.</H2>

With any luck, I can piece together all the addresses for these knuckleheads....<H2></H2><H2>Dr. Roy E. Crabtree
Regional Administrator, Southeast Region</H2>








Dr. Crabtree has served as Regional Administrator for the Southeast Region since January 2003. Previously he served as a senior research scientist at the Florida Marine Research Institute. His managerial experience includes operating his own fishing guide business in the Florida Keys and Everglades National Park, serving as a Fishery Management Specialist with NOAA Fisheries' Southeast Region, and, most recently, serving as Director of the Division of Marine Fisheries with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Spanning more than 15 years of State and Federal Government service, Dr. Crabtree has gathered broad experience as a natural resource manager. He has authored or coauthored 36 scientific publications and six selected unpublished assessments, and has provided input on numerous fisheries management plans for the Gulf of Mexico, South Atlantic, and Caribbean. He earned his doctorate in marine science from the College of William and Mary in 1984, a master's degree in marine science from the University of South Carolina in 1978, and a bachelor's degree in biology from Furman University in 1976.


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## choppedliver (Apr 4, 2009)

lol it looks like his college fraternity pic


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

he still looks like a [email protected]#$

noaa can lose

http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=2283

might be someone to contact WHEN we make it to the litigation phase

we need some big guns on our side. i was thinking maybe the state of texas. they seem to be the only ones standing up to these idiots. 

everyone keeps saying dont elect this guy or that, who do we vote for? in the case of crist maybe would could hold his vote hostage contingent on action. he is already in a position of power. i have been saying all along he has his eyes on the potus position.


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## TANNED FAT (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree with angus cow, A lawsuite with all of us backing it, hell even our coworkers and freinds who don't fish, have em sign a petition. That's a great Idea!!!!!!!!! I wonder if this is how the Indians felt back in the day? when gov said you cant hunt here anymore ,get out!


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

wonder if a GOOD attorney would be interested in doing this for some kind of contingency, i kinda doubt it. this means we need funds.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

anyone know an attorney that is a recreational fisherman? Someone that is PFF member would be even better?


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

At the end of this link is the lawyers names that beat NMFS back in 2007:

http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=2283

Finally, the Court upheld Judge Redden?s remand order in its entirety, including the collaborative remand process, the periodic status conferences, and NOAA Fisheries? obligation to prepare a "failure report" in the event the action agencies fail to produce a proposed action or a reasonable and prudent alternative that avoids jeopardy. If triggered, the failure report obligates NOAA Fisheries to advise the court of those additional measures, including the breaching of dams, that may be necessary to achieve a valid no-jeopardy finding. 

If you have any questions about this update or if you would like our assistance in connection with this matter, please contact your Stoel Rives lawyer or one of the following attorneys: 

Barbara D. Craig, [email protected], (503) 294-9166
Beth S. Ginsberg, [email protected], (206) 386-7581
Cherise M. Oram, [email protected], (206) 386-7622
Kevin J. Beaton, [email protected], (208) 387-4214
Barbara A. Brenner, [email protected], (916) 319-4676
Martin K. Banks, [email protected], (801) 578-6975 

_______________________________ 

<SUP>1</SUP> Beth S. Ginsberg, Cherise M. Oram and Barbara D. Craig are partners in Stoel Rives, LLP where they focus their practice on environmental, natural resources and wildlife law, with an emphasis on ESA regulatory and litigation matters. Ms. Ginsberg and Ms. Craig are currently representing the BPA Customer Group in the ongoing District Court litigation regarding the FCRPS biological opinion. Ms. Ginsberg is a former litigator for the U.S. Department of Justice, Environment and Natural Resources Division, a former Senior Political Advisor to an Assistant Administrator at the Environmental Protection Agency, and since joining private practice has been consistently voted a "super lawyer," while recently being named one of the Fifty Top Women Lawyers in Washington by _Washington Law & Politics_. Ms. Craig is the General Counsel of the Northwest Hydroelectric Association, is a Board Member of the Oregon Board of Forestry and was formerly a judicial clerk for the Oregon District Court where she focused on ESA and National Environmental Policy Act issues. Ms. Oram is past Chair of the American Bar Association?s Endangered Species Committee, is current Chair of the Energy Bar Association?s Hydropower Committee, and was formerly an attorney for NOAA Fisheries? Southwest Regional Office where she advised the National Marine Fisheries Service on ESA and hydropower issues.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

A lawsuit has already been filed by the FRA in May. They are asking for rec fisherman to support them by becoming a member or giving a donation in doing so you are helping with the legal fees to fight the battle. They have a page setup for donations. I'm sure any amount of donation would be welcomed.See link below to view thefiled complaint. 

http://www.thefra.org/FRA%2030B%20Complaint.htm


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## bombtosser (Oct 5, 2007)

i was talking with a buddy last night about trying to find a way to fund the fight against the feds. I would venture to bet that almost everyone that fishes for bottom fish would be willing to take the money it costs for a days worth of fishing, and contribute it to a good cause, ie litigation against the government, or lobbyiest (sp?), or a single organization that's primary goal is to fight for our cause. How do we get everyone on the coast from galveston, to key west on the same page?


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## choppedliver (Apr 4, 2009)

> *The LaJess II (10/24/2009)*A lawsuit has already been filed by the FRA in May. They are asking for rec fisherman to support them by becoming a member or giving a donation in doing so you are helping with the legal fees to fight the battle. They have a page setup for donations. I'm sure any amount of donation would be welcomed.See link below to view thefiled complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thefra.org/FRA%2030B%20Complaint.htm




I will be glad to donate when I see something on their page about AJ and snapper. I wrote the head of RFA last night about these issues


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

The lawsuit pertains to all species. It's about making them change the way they are collecting and usingflawed data. Flawed data is why we are having some many closures.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

I would gladly join FRA if they will be more prolific in the lawsuits. I just emailed them and asked several questions which I thought were important to me.

I want to see a class action lawsuit leveled against NMFS for the brevity of red snapper season as well as early closure of Amberjack. If the name of every fisherman willing to donate to the cause would be listed as litigant, I GUARANTEE there would be people coming out of the woodwork to sign up. Damages would be awarded as economic loss of catch potential during the days that the season SHOULD have lasted.

I want to cause NMFS as much grief as they have caused me. Bog them down in numerous lawsuits. Seems much more effective than a single suit. Just need more lawyers is all.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

here is fra's lawsuit (about grouper)

http://www.thefra.org/FRA%2030B%20Complaint%20amnd.pdf

even though this is a aj thread maybe we in this area could sponser a suit about red snapper since they are so prolific in this area


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

another state that might be interested is alabama


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## fishn4real (Sep 28, 2007)

Just got back from the woods, looks like you guys have been busy. During my busy day, it occured to me, duh, the major reason that we are having the problems with the NMFS and the NOAA is that they come under the Dept. of Commerce, whose sole goal is to regulate "commerce" and hence the fisheries for commercial interests. We need to get the management of the fisheries transferred to the Dept. of the Interior whose job it is to manage the nation's natural resources (wildlife is a natural resource).

But, first things first. We do have to get the seasons closures and shortenings reviewed by a Judge. It will be very expensive, but I'll put out some feelers to see who might be interested in a high profile (ie publicity for the law firm) law suit, and ask some questions about estimated costs.


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

> they come under the Dept. of Commerce, whose sole goal is to regulate "commerce" and hence the fisheries for commercial interests. We need to get the management of the fisheries transferred to the Dept. of the Interior whose job it is to manage the nation's natural resources (wildlife is a natural resource).




That's a very good observation! We need to push that as a change we can believe in!


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

I think it is time for a congressional inquiry. Put these guys on the stand in front of the Congress and make them testify to the fact that they have no idea what they are doing. 

I also think that it is time to start letting our elected officials know that sending letters are great, but not enough, and we will start holding them accountable with our votes. I say we set a deadline for action. If our Representatives and Senators have not called for an investigation by a certain date, then we actively campaign against them. I'm tired of letter writing, and I'm tired of arguing with appointed officials. It's time to make it hurt for the officials that we can reach. You won't get anything done until that happens.


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Spearfisher



Are you for or against Socialism ?



Just curios !


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

capt. eugene

im not sure what spearfisher said has to do with socialism,but are you so blinded by your selfish s.o.s. plan that you cant see that what he is talking about would be to the benefit of for hire and rec's


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Nexstep 

I am not blinded by anything I am open for all ideas.



Just confused by the Obama Signature pic.


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## Capt.Eugene (Nov 28, 2008)

Nextstep in your opinion why is S.O.S Selfish.


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## Pass Time (Feb 6, 2009)

> *fishn4real (10/24/2009)*Just got back from the woods, looks like you guys have been busy. During my busy day, it occured to me, duh, the major reason that we are having the problems with the NMFS and the NOAA is that they come under the Dept. of Commerce, whose sole goal is to regulate "commerce" and hence the fisheries for commercial interests. We need to get the management of the fisheries transferred to the Dept. of the Interior whose job it is to manage the nation's natural resources (wildlife is a natural resource).
> 
> But, first things first. We do have to get the seasons closures and shortenings reviewed by a Judge. It will be very expensive, but I'll put out some feelers to see who might be interested in a high profile (ie publicity for the law firm) law suit, and ask some questions about estimated costs.




Great observation....NOW it all makes sense!


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## ryanbr (Oct 10, 2007)

Jeff Miller responded because the darling of NW Florida(Destin) whined. This is proof of what I've been saying all along. Why haven't the big boys on the stump organized at the congressional level already? But make no mistake, this may be an opportunity if enough people on the rec side and those charter boats that don't have their head up their rears flood our Fed. senators and reps. Oh by the way, our state legislators can indirectly "effect" things at the Fed level. As much pressure as this is putting on our state economy(as if Florida relies on tourism, right?)they could send a message to Washington and those groups regulating our industry. 

Chris


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## ryanbr (Oct 10, 2007)

Dear Mr. Congressman,
I am a native of NW Florida and a strong advocate for health of the recreational fishing communities not only in our area but across the country. I am glad to see you've been made aware of the ever-tightening fishing regulations that have been thrown at us over the past few years. I believe that great strides have been made with conventional conservation measures,especially in regards to red snapper, since the mid 1990's. While I've seen and supported many of these conservation efforts to maintain the health of our fisheries, I believe that we are seeing regulations thrown at us now that reflect an ideology and not a true scientific standard. Please continue to delve into this situation that has affected so many areas that are relient on tourism and the money that the receational fishing community provides. We need your help in this matter as it seems all efforts to date to make our voices heard to NOAA, NMFS, ACOE, etc. appear to have fallen on deaf ears.
Thank you 
Chris

This is a copy of what I sent to Jeff. Remember you get more flies with honey than vinegar.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

> *ryanbr (10/25/2009)*Jeff Miller responded because the darling of NW Florida(Destin) whined. This is proof of what I've been saying all along. Why haven't the big boys on the stump organized at the congressional level already? But make no mistake, this may be an opportunity if enough people on the rec side and those charter boats that don't have their head up their rears flood our Fed. senators and reps. Oh by the way, our state legislators can indirectly "effect" things at the Fed level. As much pressure as this is putting on our state economy(as if Florida relies on tourism, right?)they could send a message to Washington and those groups regulating our industry.
> 
> Chris


...

great letter!!!:clap


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## Floppy (May 29, 2008)

NOAA. The asswipes can't even get a weather forcast right and we expect them to make prudent decisions on our fishingfuture. Not this cowboy, I'll fish on, it's my right and I'm tired of them taking my rights away.


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