# Rescued Gear!!



## swander

Had an unfortunate incident a couple of weeks ago. We were at the Chevron rig and had fished for an hour or so. I decided to dive and see if I could shoot some fish. I told my son and daughters boyfreind that I was going to the top section of the rig and would be back in about 20 min. I descended the anchor rope and checked to see that the anchor was not hungup. It was ok so I swam into the rig and took a shot. I was having a little trouble reloading due to the current so I backed up against a horizontal pipe and proceeded to reload. Checked my safety looked at my computer and just as I was going to swim away my airjust shutoff.I pushed my purge valve and nothing.Still calm I grabbed my second and tried it. No luck. I just saw that I had 1700 lbs left so I assumed my 1st stage failed. Still calm I decided to get to my anchor rope and get to the surface. No luck,I was stuck tight to the rig. Now I panicked!! I unbuckled my BC and swam for the surface. Didn't no if I was going to make it andI was sucking in water but I made it to the surface. All was well but my gear and speargun were gone. I stopped into MBT looking for some help and got hooked up with Paul Pierce and Jerry West. I took them out there the next morning and they got my gear back. Paul even found my speargun laying on the bottom. An old anchor rope stuck on the rig was under my 1st stage and over the tank valve. It had ratcheded the valve shut as I was loading my gun. Thanks guys!! I owe you big time!After they got my stuff we went to the Antares and jerry shot ths nice AJ. Long story but a great lesson learned. Steve


----------



## countryjwh

wow, glad nothing happened to you. glad you got your gear back.


----------



## Telum Pisces

A swim from the top of the Chevron 75' feet down straight up and you are not bent and alive is a blessing to say the least. Glad everything turned out ok. That could have been a tragedy to say the least. Glad you got your gear back in the end. Jerry and Pierce are top notch guys every now and then.oke Just kidding.


----------



## choppedliver

holy schnike. Stories like that from experienced people are enough to make me stay in the boat. That and I cant afford another hobby


----------



## Mike aka FishWerks

Air Embolism would be the greater concern...



Glad everything worked out!


----------



## BADBOY69

Steve...good to hear from ya! I can say that it was an experience! We need to get out and put some blood on the deck of that nice boat! When we dropped down on the Chevron and your entire rig was just hanging there at 80fsw, it was spooky! No diver, just an empty BC with tank and reg attached! I checked the SPG, "0"...Paul turned the air and the valve was closed completely! SPG then read 1500-1700 psi! Again, we were at 80 ft! Steve also had the cummerbund strap and his quick release on his waist give him hell so he had to peel outta his rig byjustforcing the shoulder straps apart and tearing out, then he had to make in up 80 ft to the surface!After recovery, I sat at the spot where we found his equipment,(tied up by the damn anchor rope someone had to cut!), and played out the scenario. I imagined the entire incident as Steve described and then applied all the variables I had learned during the recovery. When I got back on the boat I very solemnly told Steve, "Right now I'm talking to a dead man." A combination of luck, divine intervention, and calm reaction on Steve's part is the only explanation I have as to how he escaped injury, or worse. I was glad it was only a gear recovery exercise and not something more morbid. Thanks for sharing the incident, bro! Now, let's go kill some fish! Oh, BTW, did you tell the guys down the way, "Hell no I ain't selling gear, I just got mine back and have two new dive buddies!"


----------



## swander

I didn't really say much to the other dive shop as they were nice enough to not charge me an extra day on tank rental(lol)! I waited a while to post this cause I know how some people really get down on others mistakeson the forum.Ifelt like you guys needed some recognition for what you did. Thanks for the encouragement while we were out there. I felt pretty stupid for what happened. It was almost over for me and getting to the surface was more apealing to me than having that huge cuda eat my face off while I hung on the side of that rig. I know I am lucky and will definately be better aware of my surroundings from now on. I would like to get up with you guys when I get back and dive. I still owe you!! Thanks again. Steve


----------



## Corpsman

Glad everything worked out.


----------



## PMac

I have been a Divemaster for 18 years and I don't see that you really made a mistake.You could have checked your bottle valve but at 80ft and with no air decisions aren't alwayseasy to make perfectly. The odds of an anchor rope hitting your valve in a manner to turn your bottle off is pretty hard to comprehend. There was no reason for your brain to say, "hey my valve probably got closed, I should open it." In fact a first stage failure while almost unheard of makes allot more sense than a rope magically turning your bottle valve off. You made decisions that resulted in you being alive so it looks to me like you made a reasonable decision and you got lucky. I appreciate you sharing this story, it is a good reminder for all skill levels of divers how fast things can go wrong while diving. This event will take you to a new level of diver, one that they don't make a card for!


----------



## gator7_5

Do those little bottles that give you about a minute of air really exist, or were they made for james bond movies? If so why would anyone not carry one? Thought of drowning freaks me out.


----------



## Florabama

WOW! If you don't mind, I would like to incorporate that story into my Open Water class. There's a reason we teach people to take off their BCs underwater. Great job staying alive. Sure glad you're Ok, but I'm surprised Jerry gave your gear backoke.


----------



## Florabama

> *gator7_5 (7/14/2009)*Do those little bottles that give you about a minute of air really exist, or were they made for james bond movies? If so why would anyone not carry one? Thought of drowning freaks me out.


Yes they exist. One version iscalled a "Spare Air" and it has the reg built in. I believe the military issues them to pilots in case they ditch. You just pull it out and put it in your mouth and breath. In this case, it would have been perfect.


----------



## JSeaWach

I'll second Florabama, WOW...glad you made it through your "learning experience" without a problem...If you're gonna dive solo, PLEASE add a pony bottle to your gear...This totally redundant air delivery system is a good backup dive buddy because it's always with you and not off chasing an amberjack or mermaid...also, bottle size is variable so you can select a more practical size when deep diving than the spare air system provides...Stay safe!


----------



## Telum Pisces

I have been contemplating a pony setup for a while now. I have a spare reg I can use, but not a tank yet. I think that your story has just convinced me to get one. Another thing to remember is to make sure that you continue to turn your bottle on to the full/max position. I know my tanks require about 6-7 turns to the full on position. Do you know if you just simply turned it on barely? I would think that rubbing on a rope would not be able to turn off a fully on bottle.


----------



## lobsterman

As in every tight situation, think and don't panic. Panic causes death. Glad everything came out alright.


----------



## arch_diver

> *PMac (7/14/2009)*I have been a Divemaster for 18 years and I don't see that you really made a mistake.quote]
> 
> ????????
> 
> Steve, I am glad to hear that you made it out of that incident without injury. I would think that next time you might consider diving with a buddy. It makes the dive a whole lot more fun and they can help out when you get in a pinch....Just my 2 cents....


----------



## BADBOY69

> *Telum Piscis (7/14/2009)*I have been contemplating a pony setup for a while now. I have a spare reg I can use, but not a tank yet. I think that your story has just convinced me to get one. Another thing to remember is to make sure that you continue to turn your bottle on to the full/max position. I know my tanks require about 6-7 turns to the full on position. Do you know if you just simply turned it on barely? I would think that rubbing on a rope would not be able to turn off a fully on bottle.


That's a good question, Jon. Steve had proposed that possibility when he told me of the incident initially. But he had been down for a while when this happened and when we secured the gear the valve was ALL the way off and "0" psi on the SPG. The rope was an anchor line and was wound around the first stage and looped under his yoke valve so it essentially acted as a ratchet. But your question is precisely why I do not teach the "1/4 turn back" rule. All the way on or all the way off. That rope also prevented Steve from reaching behind him and turning his tank valve, that rope covered the valve and first stage. Pretty soon Steve won't worry about solo diving...we're gonna get his son certified so they can get out together! Mitch is a real squared away guy and looks forward to get under and seeing these fish he and his dad have been catching from the boat!Their boat is a sweeeeet CC w/ twin four strokes so dive buddies will never be a problem!But Chris, 'JSeaWach', is right, a redundant air source is the ONLY option if you are goona dive alone or are not in close proximity to your buddy during your dives. (i.e. spearfishing)


----------



## seanmclemore

it surprises the shit out of me every time i hear/read jerry west giving advice that doesn't result in someone going to jail or restaurants getting burned down...bad boy may actually be a responsible guy once his 6th kid gets here and he can't go on any more salvage operations.

:moon

jk jerry...good going on helping...thats what this is all about...the only thing keeping us alive underwater is a bottle on our back. i personally don't care for the spareair...i have, as we all know, emptied a bottle at depth and made a "controlled" ascent, but since then instead of getting a spareair or pony bottle, i have just started "trying" to use the 1/3's and keeping enough gas for the uhoh's. glad your ok bro...if you ever want to put together a trip, let me know

cheers


----------



## Snagged Line

Chilling story, Glad you are OK. Would have been Weird for annother diver to come up on your deserted gear before yougot back to retreave it. Did You have to leave the dive computer behind?? If so, I wonder what decompression/ bottomtimes it was showing.

Also...............You should concider purchacing a Lotto Ticket, You are living Lucky.


----------



## BADBOY69

> *Snagged Line (7/15/2009)*Chilling story, Glad you are OK. Would have been Weird for annother diver to come up on your deserted gear before yougot back to retreave it. Did You have to leave the dive computer behind?? If so, I wonder what decompression/ bottomtimes it was showing.
> 
> Also...............You should concider purchacing a Lotto Ticket, You are living Lucky.


Yeah, that's what I meant by "spooky", coming up on that gear just hanging there. Ha, the computer was hella locked out!


----------



## Darrick

Your story gave me chills while reading it!Thank goodness you could write about it.Im very new to diving only have about a dozen dives under my belt ,but that shows how much good insruction comes in to play.Id like to thank all the local instructors for what they do because its a passion to them not about money just skilled divers:clap


----------



## swander

Darrick, It was my 25th dive so I am fairly new at it also. Since then I have been thinking alot about my first dives with the instructor and how we never got more than a few feet apart and he turned to me often to see if all was well. Find a friend to dive with and stick close.Have fun. Steve


----------



## Orion45

> *swander (7/13/2009)*Had an unfortunate incident a couple of weeks ago. We were at the Chevron rig and had fished for an hour or so. I decided to dive and see if I could shoot some fish. I told my son and daughters boyfreind that I was going to the top section of the rig and would be back in about 20 min. I descended the anchor rope and checked to see that the anchor was not hungup. It was ok so I swam into the rig and took a shot. I was having a little trouble reloading due to the current so I backed up against a horizontal pipe and proceeded to reload. Checked my safety looked at my computer and just as I was going to swim away my airjust shutoff.I pushed my purge valve and nothing.Still calm I grabbed my second and tried it. No luck. I just saw that I had 1700 lbs left so I assumed my 1st stage failed. Still calm I decided to get to my anchor rope and get to the surface. No luck,I was stuck tight to the rig. Now I panicked!! I unbuckled my BC and swam for the surface. Didn't no if I was going to make it andI was sucking in water but I made it to the surface. All was well but my gear and speargun were gone. I stopped into MBT looking for some help and got hooked up with Paul Pierce and Jerry West. I took them out there the next morning and they got my gear back. Paul even found my speargun laying on the bottom. An old anchor rope stuck on the rig was under my 1st stage and over the tank valve. It had ratcheded the valve shut as I was loading my gun. Thanks guys!! I owe you big time!After they got my stuff we went to the Antares and jerry shot ths nice AJ. Long story but a great lesson learned. Steve


That's a harrowing experience. I'm glad you stayed calm and collected otherwise......

Well Done! :bowdown


----------



## Orion45

Jerry,

Nice pose. Don't be surprised if you start getting some pm's soon. oke

Vlado


----------



## Orion45

> *BADBOY69 (7/14/2009)*
> 
> 
> 
> *Telum Piscis (7/14/2009)*I have been contemplating a pony setup for a while now. I have a spare reg I can use, but not a tank yet. I think that your story has just convinced me to get one. Another thing to remember is to make sure that you continue to turn your bottle on to the full/max position. I know my tanks require about 6-7 turns to the full on position. Do you know if you just simply turned it on barely? I would think that rubbing on a rope would not be able to turn off a fully on bottle.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good question, Jon. Steve had proposed that possibility when he told me of the incident initially. But he had been down for a while when this happened and when we secured the gear the valve was ALL the way off and "0" psi on the SPG. The rope was an anchor line and was wound around the first stage and looped under his yoke valve so it essentially acted as a ratchet. But your question is precisely why I do not teach the "1/4 turn back" rule. All the way on or all the way off. That rope also prevented Steve from reaching behind him and turning his tank valve, that rope covered the valve and first stage. Pretty soon Steve won't worry about solo diving...we're gonna get his son certified so they can get out together! Mitch is a real squared away guy and looks forward to get under and seeing these fish he and his dad have been catching from the boat!Their boat is a sweeeeet CC w/ twin four strokes so dive buddies will never be a problem!But Chris, 'JSeaWach', is right, a redundant air source is the ONLY option if you are goona dive alone or are not in close proximity to your buddy during your dives. (i.e. spearfishing)
Click to expand...

Totally agree. That's why I have a 19 cf pony.


----------



## Kim

First and foremost, I am glad you survived your harrowing experience. It shows that God does watch out for us mere mortals sometimes when we make a serious error in judgement. I don't mean to throw stones or be negative here, however some of the comments on this thread shocked me. I have a little diving experience so I'll throw in my two cents.Many that commented on this post sounded like survival divers. One of the basic scuba skills taught and tested on for proficiency is the R/R of the scuba unit. The reason for that is to get untangled if fouled in lines etc. Another basic is that you should set your unit up so that you can reach behind you and check the tank valve while keeping the bottle low enough so that it's not thumping your noggin. I would recommend all of you including the instructor and divemaster to take a refresher course and get themselves squared away. Now that I have most likely pissed you off, my little bit of diving experience was 24 years as a US Navy diving officer, my qualifications went from rebreather to bethnic systems. Not only was I a Navy dive instructor,a recreational instructor, I served a tour as OIC of the Navy experimental diving unitas well. Practice basic diving skills regularly, practice emergency dive procedures until they are natural reactions, then stay in practice. We had a sign on the wall...... "There are old divers and there are bold divers, but, there are no old bold divers"

Kim


----------



## Orion45

> *Kim (7/17/2009) ...We had a sign on the wall...... "There are old divers and there are bold divers, but, there are no old bold divers"...*


*

An adage apparently borrowed from your aviation shipmates and modified to fit. oke ...oris it vice versa?*


----------



## Kim

Them brown shoe Navy guys will snatch your skivies in the laundry if you don't watch them. Look close at their sign, you'll see where they changed divers to pilots. In the end we are all brothers on the same team. Hazardous occupations and sports have established safety guidelines and emergency procedures for a very good reason, they save lives when it hits the fan.

Kim


----------



## Orion45

> *Kim (7/17/2009)*.....Them brown shoe Navy guys will snatch your skivies in the laundry if you don't watch them.....


----------



## BADBOY69

Kim, you are no doubt well experienced and well qualified and I'm sure have much to offer the recreational dive community. That being said, I fail to see what comments "shocked" you. I only observed posts by divers trying to help other divers, trying to learn from one another. 'Swander' advised me he hesitated in posting due to his fear of being 'flamed'. I had never met him prior to this incident and cannot speak to his level of diving, but I commend him for having the courage to tell his story so others may learn. I'm only saddened that he was correct in his assumption that he would be targeted for his deed.I feel that you incorrectly addressed the resolution to the incident as a simple, "R/R".A simple BC removal and replacementmay not have beenpossible due to the severity of the entanglement and the rope completely covered the first stage preventing him from turning the valve when checking his air. I tried explaining all this in my postsin describing how I found the gear. I don't know if you were hasty in your judgement or in the reading of the posts, but I feel you erred in your assesment. As to the "instructor and divemaster" needing to "get squared away", I am curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion. I can always use con ed and training but am a bit confused as to why you feel that there was a negligence of professionalism. Perhaps you are unaware of the full account of the incident. If so, I would be happy to discuss the details with you via private message or phone.Being a former Instructor, you well know there is no financial motivation in what I do. I only hope to help others from my experience and ability to teach. I was not Steve's Instructor but I would not hesitate to assist him in any way, as evidenced by my dive to recover his gear. Heencountered me by chance after the shop he had rented the tank from could not provide assistance in the recovery of his gear. I am happy to have helped and am glad I met him, heisa genuinely good guy. (A bit humbled, but a good guy!)I,too, have many experiences on the water and Ienjoy conveying them to others so that they may learn. Please, try to encourage new divers and give back to the sport that has given to you.


----------



## Kim

Jerry as an instructor you are familiar with the teaching method of repetition, or as the old saying goes practice makes perfect. I did not flame him or anyone else. Diving is a hazardous occupation and sport. As such the margin for error is pretty slim and the consequences are usually paralysis or death. The guy was fortunate that God smiled upon him that day. A good friend of mine wasn't so fortunate. He was a bad assed diver and now he is paralyzed from the waist down. He stretched and bent the rules of physics and he finally hit the point of no return. He is lucky to be alive and he will be the first to tell you, "obey the rules, the are there for a reason, plan your dive and dive your plan." I'm of the opinion that as far as diving goes nothing should be sugar coated. I feel that both you and the Dive Master should have given him a more professional debrief on his dive, what he should have done and why. I'm sure that by now one if not both of you have taken this tadpole under your fin by now and have run him through some diving skills proficiency drills to bring his diving safety skills back to a proficient level as well as giving him a confidence boost while doing so. Most diving accidents occur when people dive beyond their limitations and abilities. This is the reason for continuing education in the military as well as the recreational diving sectors. If I was still an active Instructor, I would take this guy under my fin and bring him up through the ranks of diving. With a little help he can be a strong advocate of recreational diving and diving safety. This guy did go back and that says he has heart. 

Kim


----------



## spearfisher

> *Kim (7/17/2009)* "There are old divers and there are bold divers, but, there are no old bold divers"
> 
> Kim


Apparently Kim has not met Big Rich...oke


----------



## BADBOY69

> *spearfisher (7/19/2009)*
> 
> 
> 
> *Kim (7/17/2009)* "There are old divers and there are bold divers, but, there are no old bold divers"
> 
> Kim
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently Kim has not met Big Rich...oke
Click to expand...

HA! I just laughed out loud!!! No truer statement ever said! Thelegend of "Sea Hunt" and Lloyd Bridges lives on...


----------



## Pierce07

> *Kim (7/19/2009)*Jerry as an instructor you are familiar with the teaching method of repetition, or as the old saying goes practice makes perfect. I did not flame him or anyone else. Diving is a hazardous occupation and sport. As such the margin for error is pretty slim and the consequences are usually paralysis or death. The guy was fortunate that God smiled upon him that day. A good friend of mine wasn't so fortunate. He was a bad assed diver and now he is paralyzed from the waist down. He stretched and bent the rules of physics and he finally hit the point of no return. He is lucky to be alive and he will be the first to tell you, "obey the rules, the are there for a reason, plan your dive and dive your plan." I'm of the opinion that as far as diving goes nothing should be sugar coated. I feel that both you and the Dive Master should have given him a more professional debrief on his dive, what he should have done and why. I'm sure that by now one if not both of you have taken this tadpole under your fin by now and have run him through some diving skills proficiency drills to bring his diving safety skills back to a proficient level as well as giving him a confidence boost while doing so. Most diving accidents occur when people dive beyond their limitations and abilities. This is the reason for continuing education in the military as well as the recreational diving sectors. If I was still an active Instructor, I would take this guy under my fin and bring him up through the ranks of diving. With a little help he can be a strong advocate of recreational diving and diving safety. This guy did go back and that says he has heart.
> 
> 
> 
> Kim




I don't believe you were on the boat on this trip. We did run through everything that he should've done. Even if he did reach back and try to turn back on his tank he wouldn't have been able to reach it because of the 3 inch rope he was in. Steve knows that he got lucky this time and he knows what he did wrong, we went over that many of times with him. I'd rather see him leave his gear on the wreck then himself. I know you're gonna moan and groan about this so go ahead. :sleeping


----------



## Kim

No I wasn't on that boat you're absolutely right. However if the established out of air emergency procedures would have been followed there would have been no problem. The poor guy abandoned all training, was not familiar with his equipment configuration, he panickedand it came close to costing him his life. You folks can dive any way you want, the only issue I have with it is that these episodes reflect poorly on recreational diving safety. If you are unable to realize and admit to a mistake thats your problem not mine. So if there is no problem, there's nothing to correct so it should be ok to go the same route next time. Just hope it doesn't take him 30 seconds longer next time or that post will be much more somber than this one. All I did was point out the lack of diving proficiency as the cause of a diving incident. That is what it is and no matter how pretty you try to paint the picture or how thick you sugar coat it, the facts remain the same.Read his post and bullet the items as the incident unfolded and you will see that each part of the scenario was something that you shouldn't do while diving. Get any open watertraning manuap PADI, NAUI etc andshow me in any of them where he followed an established procedure with the exception of the emergency ascent, I'll give him that even though he most likely did a blow and go.

This is a diver forum and is open for discussion. If you are going to enter the discussion, especially with an opposing view, it is highly recommended that you do so well prepared to defend that position withFACTS not fiction.You should be able to substanciate your statements with some sort of documentation in a case like this. Everything I've said here I can look up in an open water divers manual and give the page and paragraph if you want it. Can you do the same? Almost every instance of where a safety procedure was questioned on this forum, there has always been an excuse. Not really whatI had expected from the diving community. 

Kim


----------



## deepsixrich

I realize I'm over my head here with the experienced divers on this post. That being said what would be the outcome, if after going for a breath with nothing there, he locates the Octo only to find nothing there. After this he takes precious seconds removing the unit and examining it, finds it is a true out of air situation, or failed first stage, or the tangle was too extensive to remedy while out of air, would then it not be too late for an emergency accent? Could the tangle have been removed by someone in his out of air situation? I can see taking a quick look back before bolting to see if it's something simple, but there again your 80 feet down and might have only one shot to make it up. Do you ever just have to go with your gut feeling? Stay calm and breathe...But if the breathe isn't there you can try other measures but you might be forfeiting your only chance for an emergency accent.


----------



## Kim

Just tried to be helpful thats all. Happy survival diving to you all and good luck. I'm done.


----------



## seanmclemore

kim, i agree whole heartedly with 90 % of what you are saying, but 100% with your last comment "survival diving". this is a dangerous sport, but my favorite to say the least, any every time we go below the surface we are surviving, relying on our training alone to bring us back. gear fails, entanglements happen, NARCOSIS is there, low viz, heavy currents all add up

confident recreational divers push the envelope on a very regular basis. thats part of the problem, over confidence = lack of respect for the water. sometimes we just get put in check. i have been in the situation, as i am sure you have too, where decisions have to be made right or wrong. 

i just think that you are contradicting yourself by bailing on the thread when deepsix asks a legit question and you don't even extend you vast experience you were bragging about earlier.

deepsixrich, the answer to your question is there is no answer. there is nothing in the program that addresses that situation. yes you should dive with a buddy, yes redundant gas source would be a +, but shit happens and at times its got to be a gut call and hope that its not your time to go.... i am glad that this thread was started because right or wrong, we ALL need to be reminded that you need to have your balls screwed on straight (or other parts for the female divers :baby) when entering the water, and dive within your limits....pushing them on occasion of course.

safe diving

oh and, devine intervention doesn't hurt every now and again, i know i'm not 100% responsible for my ass still being upright


----------



## arch_diver

I may not have all the vast diving experience that all you fine people have, but I have an opinion,a computer, and an internet connection...... Getting hung up in rope/wire/chain....whatever.....has got to be a very unnerving feeling. Ditching your gear @80' or trying to figure it out seems like a decision that could easily be avoided if one were to......





*DIVE WITH A BUDDY!!!!!!!!*


----------



## BADBOY69

> *arch_diver (7/21/2009)*I may not have all the vast diving experience that all you fine people have, but I have an opinion,a computer, and an internet connection...... Getting hung up in rope/wire/chain....whatever.....has got to be a very unnerving feeling. Ditching your gear @80' or trying to figure it out seems like a decision that could easily be avoided if one were to......
> 
> 
> *DIVE WITH A BUDDY!!!!!!!!*


'arch diver', you are absolutely correct...DIVE WITH A BUDDY! Steve posted that advise to everyoneon page one of the thread. That's what he was trying to emphasize, he has over two dozen dives and it is at that point we get comfortable and begin pushing limits.He wanted everyone to use his experience as a learning opportunity, and I think many of us have. Again, you hit the nail on the head, diving with a buddy is a basic principle we learn and need to apply. Oh, I had to chuckle at the, "...I have an opinion, a computer, and an internet connection." Your comment was valid and very much welcomed.


----------



## Orion45

> *arch_diver (7/21/2009)*I may not have all the vast diving experience that all you fine people have, but I have an opinion,a computer, and an internet connection...... Getting hung up in rope/wire/chain....whatever.....has got to be a very unnerving feeling. Ditching your gear @80' or trying to figure it out seems like a decision that could easily be avoided if one were to......
> 
> 
> *DIVE WITH A BUDDY!!!!!!!!*


Only if that buddy stays close to you throughout the dive. If he's out of visual range, that buddy is virtually useless to you. Spearfishing in reduced visibilityoften results in losing sight of your buddy andfinding yourself on your own. In an emergency, you don't have the luxury to go searching for your buddy or staying put in one place hoping he will happen to come by. You have to rely on your own resources and skills. I have absolutely noqualms in divingsolo in an OW environment. As a matter of fact,if there are only two or threedivers along, I would prefer at least one to remain on the surface instead of having everybody underwater and the boat left unattended. Adrift in the GOM concerns me much more than solo diving.

Here are my self imposed limitations for solospearfishing:

1.Have an alternate air source (pony bottle). Icarry it with me on all my dives sincean octopus will do you no good in the case of an emergency. If you run out of air, the octopus is worthless. If a high pressure hose fails, the octopus is of no help. If the second stage fails (it's designed to fail in the open position, i.e. freeflow,so you can still breathe from it), the octopus is also of no use. If the first stage fails, the octopus is *really* worthless. Forget the*Spare Air*. Get a pony bottle with a minimum volume of 13 cf. Mine is a 19 cf. The octopus is there only to provide an alternate air source to your buddy and my pony bottle will fulfill that function evenbetter. The pony bottle can be removed by simply pulling one pin. In theevent I can not free my BC, I should be able to ditch it and ascendbreathing fromthe pony bottle.

2.Carry a good knife able to cut through heavy rope and leader wire. Make sure you test the knife by cutting through some leaders and anchor lines. I wear that one on the inside of my leg. I also carry a mini knife attached to my BC shoulder strap just in case I can't reach my primary blade. I also have a pair small Gerber SS wirecutters (in a small pouch)attached to my BC

3. No decompression diving.

Some of you will probably think that this is a lot of gear to carry. As I see it, it's either the gear or the lead. Withthe gear, I onlyneed an additional 8lbs of lead whilewearing a 3 mm wetsuit. Frankly, I would rather carry the extra gear than the extra lead. Other than for the pony bottle, I'm just as streamlined as any other diver wearing a similar BC and a single tank. Since I'm spearfishing, racing through the water is not really a concern since I discovered very early on that I could not chase down a fish. :doh

About the only possibility over which I have no controlis a heart attack or a stroke. However, what could a buddy do for meunderwater in that situation,assuming that he was rightnext to me and was able to correctly diagnose the medical emergency. As a matter of fact, I would rather go that way than become an invalid or worse yet, a vegetable.

I know solo diving is frowned upon but in my opinion, is no worse than solo sky divng, a single piloted plane (with a single engine to boot),orchasing skirts in Panama City during spring break. All of them have risks.You just have to evaluate them. To quote Clint "*Dirty Harry" *Eastwood- "A good man always knows his limitations." These are good words to live by.

Did I mention that I also dive with a *Shark Shield*?


----------



## BADBOY69

Hey Vlado, where did you get your Gerber cutters? How they holdin' up? I need some titanium ones for cable, braidand that damn 'spider wire'! I have some ss ones on my harness but they corrode terribly, even after washing them immediately in fresh water and spraying them with dry lube. HA! I said "lube"!

I feel ya on the redundant gear. I carry two (2) lights, ss cutters, OMS line cutter and a knife. Two (2) computers, one on each wrist. A primary second stage as well as octo and we are now starting to sling AL 40's, completly rigged. A lift bag, (some of our guys carry two (2), one orange and one yellow)surface marker, and thumb spool. All these items are streamlined, tucked away but within easy reach. No entanglement hazards and we've practiced deployment.


----------



## Orion45

Jerry,

Bought the Gerber many years ago (I think at Home Deopt). It has endured a lot of dives and is still in good shape. The accessories attached to both handles are what rusted the most. I occasionally had to soak the Gerber in a weak solution of muriatic acid and water (about 25%). That normallygot rid of all the rust for a while. I removed the accessories a few years ago and the Gerber is now a lot more rust proof.


----------



## BADBOY69

Thanks 4 the info...I'll try a weak solution of muratic acid.


----------



## seanmclemore

yo jerry, i think muratic acid might take care of those little bumps too

j/k

see ya at the pre tourney mtg


----------



## Florabama

> *Kim (7/20/2009)*Just tried to be helpful thats all. Happy survival diving to you all and good luck. I'm done.


What you were was an a$$, mister, and if you don't have enough sense to know that, you certainly don't have enough sense to be giving anyone advice on how they should have done it based on your 20/20 hindsight preached from the comfort of your easy chair.


----------



## Clay-Doh

Wow, I had missed this entire post.



Swander....glad to hear your alright, and Jerry and Paul are GREAT guys!



I do have a comment. I do not rememebr anywhere in the dive training manual or the classes and skills...



and exersice or protocol for being tangeled and pinned to a wreck, AND no air emergency AT THE SAME TIME. Someone correct me if I;m wrong? I am not a real experienced super qualified skilled with a bunch of certs other than nitrox and advanced diver, so I could very well be wrong.



I just don't remember that exact scenario being in the book. If your still breathing, yes, can fix an entanglement. And vice versa, if your not entagled, you can deal with an out of air type emergency safer. But both at the same time? 



I personally think he handled it very well, and obviously calmly enough (as a relatively new diver) that he didn't get #1 the bends, and #2 air embolism. Oviously he didn't rocket to the surface, (and he had been down a decent while, his tank was 68% empty of the usuable air considering leaving 500 psi at the end of the dive), and he DIDN't hold his breath, but yet let the expanding air slowly escape as he asended. Sounds like he handled a combination FUBAR with extreme calmness without getting injured.



I think the lesson learned is think ahead of combination pitfalls that may happen, and how to deal with them. Your mask gets knocked off, AND you become entangled...your buddys out of air emergency, and YOUR entagled...ect ect. The double wammys are what can really be deadly. Dealing with one emergency underwater is difficult, dealing with 2 is downright spooky. 



I personally Swander think you did what I would have done, and even if you did look back at your rig, you would have seen that it was entagled around the valve, and you, after already trying purge, then octo, were low on air, would not have been able to correct on one breath of air.



Besides spare air, any spearfishers ever consider a spare mask? Big reef donkey knocks your mask off...have fun trying to read your computer, or anything and making a safe accent. Or if you then get tangled by the big AJ...weell...just food for thought.


----------



## swander

Thanks Clay, I now own a pony setup and since that incident have logged 20 dives without even a close call. all but 3 of those dives were with Jerry and Paul. They were key in rebuilding my cofidence, got me nitrox certified and even took me to the flight deck on the "O".Those two are a TRIP! Steve


----------



## BOHUNTER1

This is a good learning experience of the things that can and will go wrong on something like a open platform. Although "KIM" had not sucked his or her last breath and exhaled he or she would not know the PANIC of the individual. I dont know? But I do know whatever was done was the RIGHT choice and ditching the gear was no more than a formality. Since you are or were MR NAVY Diver Im sure your professional training and skills would have just kicked in. Probably while you had no air left, you would have sucked the reg, and knowing you had air in the cylinder reached up and carefully removed a 3 inch rope jammed in the valve area and reopened the air locked in the tank without any air in you lungs.... YEAH RIGHT!

I shouldnt say this about Navy but you are the A-TYPICAL Navy Ahole know it all, but you already knew this. (Good Navy guys out there just example good Navy guys!!)

If you think its a Mancho thing to Dive with snorkel or rebreather and the brag on it well fantastic. Im a NEW diver, dont know jack but I would have ditched my gear and lived to buy more gear later, while we would spend thousands trying to save your egotistical body from crabs! But.... I guess you already knew that too!

If your wanting opposition as you stated its a Dive forum discussion board, here ya go...

STEVE HOLLOWAY

PACE FLORIDA

NEW DIVER

Adv Open and Nitrox... Does it mean Im a geneous, genus,jeanus...whatever.... ?Probably not but its not the guy swho knows the most who lives, its the one with common sense sometimes.

I wonder how you would do in a pitch black log infested river in current, overhead environments, entanglements everywhere and no viz.... and possible large reptiles ... Oh you already been thereand wrote the extraction log for those situations... 

I can play your game and not scared either!


----------



## freespool50

glad it went ok. first time reading this post. im a really really really really new diver. i have a question. what would be the problem with dropping a tank with reg attached down to about 1/2 the diving depth for just that situation? if you have to ditch ALL your gear including your pony, wouldnt there be some comfort in knowing there is air halfway up and a rope to hang on while doing a deco stop? does anyone do this? or is it considered going way overboard with safety. according to all the posts and the instruction ive been given, it would seem that you cant do too much to be safe.


----------



## BADBOY69

> *freespool50 (10/8/2009)*glad it went ok. first time reading this post. im a really really really really new diver. i have a question. what would be the problem with dropping a tank with reg attached down to about 1/2 the diving depth for just that situation? if you have to ditch ALL your gear including your pony, wouldnt there be some comfort in knowing there is air halfway up and a rope to hang on while doing a deco stop? does anyone do this? or is it considered going way overboard with safety. according to all the posts and the instruction ive been given, it would seem that you cant do too much to be safe.


'Freespool', first of all, welcome to the sport! I've seen some of your post in other areas and look forword to seeing some reports back from your diving, you'll add alot here. As to your question, nothing is wrong with hanging a stage tankfor use in an emergency. I think I understood your post correctly...having a tank with a reg attached to thedescent line ata specified depth for use in the event of an, "Oh, sh!t" incident.Of course, a pony bottle or bail-out setupyou sling on you or your rig is wise so that you don'thave to worry about trying to find the line in orderto utilize your safety plan. But, like you said, what if there was a rare occasion when you had to ditch everything or everything failed...why not do both? Then you have a backup to your backup! There is nothing wrong with implementing that as part of your dive routine, just practicedeploying and using the system. There is no diving style that is TOO safe, in my opinion! Again, glad to have you over here and hope this helps.


----------



## Clay-Doh

Forgot what charter it is..Think it may be Beerbunder? Anyways, they have a tank and rig set up at the top of the tower on the O. So at about 70 feet if there is an emergency, there is a rig. I think thats a great idea. Dalton has bottles slung down at 20 feet on his, which in a case as with Swander, is still great because he can add a safety margin by being able to off-gas while still under 1.60 atmospheres of pressure, and much lessening the chance of bends.



Even better yet (with proper training) is pure O2 slung at that depth, if you have a computer that can switch to pure O2, and can be switched to a new mix while underwater. Talk about watching your nitrogen disappear right before your eyes.



Theoretically speaking, you could assend on one "breath" of air from any depth, say 1,000 feet. At 1000 feet, 1 lungfull of air has as much gas at that depth as 30.30 lungfulls at the surface. An accent from 100 feet on a breath of air is actually 3 breathfulls of air. Its the time factor involved on fast you have to ascend because from a depth of 100 feet it should take exactly 2 minutes and 40 seconds to reach the surface based on 60 fpm accent rate from 100-60 feet, and 30 fpm from 60 feet to 0. (I know I know, the book teaches 30 fpm accent regardless of depth, and good to follow. It is industry acceptable to ascend 60fpm at depths greater than 60. I personally ascend about 15 feet per minute though). With a stagfe bottle at 20 feet, that cuts total "safe" accent time down to 2 minutes, plus allows you to do a safety stop, which would be more like a decompression stop due to the faster than "safe and acceptable" accent rate that you would probably have done. 



I have been meaning to get one of them lil spare airs that provides aprox 20 breaths of air. Very small with its own reg mounted on top, takes up almost zero room. Considering the expanding lungs and air, that would be plenty to get me to the surface safely.



My name is Clay, and I am an addict. I in no way advocate decompression diving or use of O2. Or accent rates of 60 fpm at depths greater than 60'. And always dive within 10 feet of your buddy.


----------



## BOHUNTER1

I like 20 foot of line with a tank attached/reg attached. If ya got one why not drop it down....most can see the boat above but the current and anchor line may be way out front and 100 feet away, this would give a good anchor point for a safety stop.... Im learning..

Yall gotta get me on a boat and teach a newbie some new stuff, Josh and Rich ..well Ive used up all their passed on knowledge!


----------



## Clay-Doh

We'll get you out there Bohunter!


----------



## deepcelineman

if your gonna dive alone should not even be an option unless teatherd to topside an no line pull signals are comms dive buddys are the best way an safe way its just not worth it


----------

