# Swivels



## Kim

At first glance all swivels seem to work just fine but that's not really true. The big heavy duty barrel swivel will work fine for deep dropping or Sword fishing but not for trolling. Ball bearing swivels is the way to go for trolling to avoid line twist which could cost you a decent fish.

The best way to see if you need to upgrade your swivels on your trolling set ups is to pull a few yards off your rod and see if it twists up on itself, the amount of twisting will be an indicator of how bad your line is twisted. 

Paying for high dollar swivels becomes well worth it when you have a fish hooked up that makes your heartbeat race. All the time, effort, expense of getting offshore to troll is significant and the last place you want to cut corners is on your terminal gear which could defeat the whole purpose of you being out there. Tight line to you all.


----------



## jcasey

Dead on ! I agree, those cheap black ones that you buy in bulk may be fine for dropping straight down. Pullling lures is another story.


----------



## J0nesi

learn something everyday.


----------



## jcasey

J0nesi said:


> learn something everyday.


Aw. C'mon, you knew that...


----------



## J0nesi

dont troll much, had no idea about ball bearing swivels.


----------



## Chris V

Ball Bearing swivels are the only way to go for bluewater fishing.


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

Agreed- we use them with all our higher end tackle and lures. Pay big $$ for your terminal tackle?- don't skimp on the swivels!


----------



## rr4611

I have some American Fishing Wire 100# test stainless crane swivels. The things are tiny for being 100#. How are these different? I take it not ball bearing, but I use them for bottom fishing so not as noticeable. Planned to use trolling but maybe not the best idea.


----------



## Kim

Small swivels like that have another problem attached to them. Since they are smaller in diameter than the monofilament shock leader or top shot they tend to cut through your terminal knots under heavy loads and holy smokes knock downs. It's a good idea to have the diameter of your swivel wire bigger than your monofilament connected to it.


----------



## rr4611

Kim said:


> Small swivels like that have another problem attached to them. Since they are smaller in diameter than the monofilament shock leader or top shot they tend to cut through your terminal knots under heavy loads and holy smokes knock downs. It's a good idea to have the diameter of your swivel wire bigger than your monofilament connected to it.


What about braid?


----------



## Kim

Braid is fine, just use the improved cinch knot which gives two wraps through the swivel eye.


----------



## Chris V

I've had the improved clinch fail with braid. A 10-12 wrap uni, with or without a lock knot tests much stronger. The knot I use the most for attaching terminal to braid (in the rare occurrence I don't have a topshot) is going through the eye once, wrapping ten times up and ten times back over the initial wraps before passing through the loop. This knot has never failed me

As far as the small swivels cutting your mono on a strike, have you ever actually had that happen Kim? That would have to be a very small swivel. If you made the ring wire thicker than the mono, that would be a ridiculously bulky swivel. I use the AFW swivels tuna fishing and haven't had my line cut yet, but then again I dont fish extremely heavy drag settings on the hookup


----------



## Kim

Yes Chris I did The American Swivel #200 is pretty small sliced through the #80 mono twice that was enough to convince me. I use those now for inshore because they are so small and work fine with braid. I normally set drag at #13 - #15 at strike, I wouldn't consider that a heavy drag setting trolling lures.


----------



## rr4611

Chris V, the swivels I am using are the AFW Miti Mini. 100 # test but small enough that you can probably set 2 for sure, and maybe 3 of them on the head of a penny and not touch each other. Pretty small, but I will definitely look at beefing up the knot on it.


----------



## Kim

4611 you may want to test out your swivels and the knot your are going to use so you can see how it is going work. Take a piece of line that you are using, tie your swivel on, wrap the line 10 turns of so around a dower or something like that, put it down on the floor on a cloth, step on it, run a heavy section of line through the other swivel eye, with a glove on a few wraps of the heavy line around your hand then pull up and see how hard you have to pull until the knot or line fails.


----------



## rr4611

Might try the Palomar knot and Eugene Slip knot. Will try it with a single improved clinch and a double improved clinch. Going to end up with something that looks like a monkey fist on the end of the swivel! Ha!
http://www.wired2fish.com/how-to-tie-the-eugene-slip-knot/


----------



## Kim

I'm still trying to find the ultimate strong terminal knot. I can tie #80 fluoro or mono and it all breaks pulling by hand every knot that I have tried. I even tried the Benjamin knot and others that are more detailed and they all fail. The snell knot is it for hooks but I still haven't found the knot for swivels.


----------



## Chris V

Kim, get a crimper and sleeves. You have problems with knots and tackle that NOBODY ELSE DOES! If a Benjamin knot fails on you, either it wasn't tight enough, or you are cursed!

I re-read this and it sounded prick-like. I promise that's not how I meant it!


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

The amount of bad advice that gets thrown around on this site and some others is enough to make one's head spin


----------



## CatCrusher

Especially when it's plagiarism. You know what I mean?


----------



## Kim

I used to crimp Chris but it's easier to tie a knot while out fishing. Maybe I am cursed when it comes to knots on swivels. My knot book pages are showing marks from turning the pages, my dowels are neatly ringed and I'm still trying to find the knot where the main line breaks rather than the knot. 

I wish one of the knot gurus would post pics of their knot in #80 braid where the line breaks every time rather than in the knot. Heck Chris post up some pics and how to yourself, saying that nobody else does is a pretty strong and broad statement. So why don't you just tie the knots , post the pics with the how to do a test and show how it's done. Every time I do a knot session I have a little pile of broken knot curlicues. So rather than tell me how bad I am at it, why don't you just show me how you do it so the knot doesn't break.

I check my knot book to make sure I'm doing it right, make sure wraps are tight, wet it before snugging and pulling tight in one even pull. If I'm missing something I'm not sure what it is.


----------



## MrFish

Dang. I guess I don't put that much thought into it. I've been tying swivels on with a San Diego Jam for as long as I've been saltwater fishing. Never had a knot fail. Broke line, cut line, etc., but never a knot failure.


----------



## TCAT

Here's a thought....step away from the keyboard and drive to your local tackle store (i.e. Sams) and ask the guy behind the counter to show knots they use and have found to be successful. Then support said store with your business. Just saying...


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

:shifty:


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

TCAT said:


> Here's a thought....step away from the keyboard and drive to your local tackle store (i.e. Sams) and ask the guy behind the counter to show knots they use and have found to be successful. Then support said store with your business. Just saying...


This. We are very fortunate with some of the local tackle stores we have here in the area. I haven't found a staff member at J&M, Sam's, or Outcast that I didn't like. These guys are spooling line, splicing, and tying knots all day long, with the stores' reputation at stake on failed knots. I try to tell people all the time you can't learn how to fish from the internet.


----------



## Kim

I have done that Captain Woody, next time I go into a tackle shop I guess I'll take my dowel and my glove so I can use the same test on their knots that I use on my own but them I doubt that it would be received vey well. It would be the opposite of what I'm getting here. If I could tie a bullet proof knot where the line failed every time, I promise you that I would have it step by step on video and post it on every fishing forum that I frequent to share it with everyone because it would be the holy grail of a swivel terminal knot.

Many knots tied and use while fishing don't fail that often but I'm sure that by wrapping the line around a dowel, standing on it and pulling steadily until the knot or line fails most likely puts more strain on the line and knot than the actual fishing condition does. So a knot that works fine fishing with #20 - #40 drag on #80 mono could fail every time somewhere above that #40 of drag and less than the breaking strength of the #80 monofilament.

What I am trying to find is a knot that doesn't fail or is close to the breaking strength of the line.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

I don't know what you're doing, or if you have bad line or what. There are two basic knots I try to teach people that want to go out and do it on their own. The uni and the snell. As you know, the uni's versatility lets you tie swivels and hooks with it, also join line to line. ASSUMING YOU ARE TYING IT CORRECTLY, and something keeps breaking, you have shitty line. Period. Not even talking about biminis and albrights and all these other knots. Never have I seen a knot fail at the knot (that was tied properly).


----------



## Chris V

Yowsa! I just got back on here

I meant what I said in my last post in more of a "teasing" manner

But to follow up, I would post some step by steps but I'm not in a position to do so at the moment. Maybe I'll post a knot thread later


----------



## Capt. Alex Pinney

TCAT said:


> Here's a thought....step away from the keyboard and drive to your local tackle store (i.e. Sams) and ask the guy behind the counter to show knots they use and have found to be successful. Then support said store with your business. Just saying...


Yep .. Outcast , Jm , SAMs all would be willing to help out. What knots do you tie when you do all these tuna trips you do


----------



## SnapperSlapper

It's not rocket science to attach snap swivels to trolling gear. A 25-30 turn bimini, cat's paw knot, ball bearing snap swivel (rated 2-3x the main line strength.) I've never had the time nor the inclination to do all this "experimenting" you are doing. But, we've broken off two fish this year, one broke the main line and one broke the leader. And in the past 6 or 7 years I can not remember a failure of either the bimini or the cat's paw knot. We have broken swivels, we have broken or bent hooks, we have broken leaders, and we have broken main lines. But not once can I recall breaking at one of those knots. So I'd say that we get pretty near 100%.


----------



## SnapperSlapper

I'm not sure what all of the different stores charge, but I know that most if not all will tie bimini's, etc. on all your outfits for you for a small fee. This may be a good option for you since you are having so much trouble.


----------



## Kim

Thanks for the suggestions guys but let me put it in a nutshell for you. I'm looking for a knot that will withstand certain parameters, anything short of that isn't much help to me. 

The knot I'm looking for will be tied with #80 Yo Zuri or Seaguar fluorocarbon leader on a #250 Sampo barrel swivel or equivalent and it must hold when tensioned to #70. That means the knot would have to hold at .875% of the leader breaking strength and crimping it is not an option.

Captain Woody, Chris or anyone else that knows of a knot with those characteristics I would appreciate it if you could let me know what that particular knot is. I have tried every knot I know, every knot in my knot books and a whole bunch that I found online. So far the best I have been able to do is #60 with the Benjamin Knot and that is still #10 short of what I need.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

SnapperSlapper said:


> I'm not sure what all of the different stores charge, but I know that most if not all will tie bimini's, etc. on all your outfits for you for a small fee. This may be a good option for you since you are having so much trouble.


Good stuff! Nothing wrong with taking a hit to your pride and turning over the knot tying to a reputable tackle store. The alternative, appears to be "broken knots" at your work bench will equal lost fish offshore. And according to this website, every lost tuna is over 150, every lost marlin is over 500 (and apparently every one caught is 400), and every lost snapper is over 20. Everyone loses fish occasionally. I lose sleep over good fish lost. But the worst reasons you can lose one are to terminal tackle failure, and user error (not knowing what in the hell you are doing, lousy gaffing, subpar maneuvering)


----------



## Chris V

I've tested six turn uni knots with 60, 80 and 100# and dry test at 95% or higher almost every time. 

I understand the strengths you're looking for. Do you really think any of us (especially who's reputations and jobs are on the line) tie anything less? I don't know of anyone who "settles" with 80% or lower testing knots


----------



## Kim

Next time I'm in OB Chris I will definitely stop by for a knot lesson. I couldn't come anywhere close to that with the uni knot. I'm going to put it on the knot menu tonight and see how that goes.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Kim said:


> The knot I'm looking for will be tied with #80 Yo Zuri or Seaguar fluorocarbon leader on a #250 Sampo barrel swivel or equivalent and it must hold when tensioned to #70. That means the knot would have to hold at .875% of the leader breaking strength and crimping it is not an option.


You're taking the fun out of fishing. The only thing I use math for in fishing is when figuring out mileage and range for a trip, or when setting drag. No need to overcomplicate it. That being said, a couple of questions:

1. What application are you tying 80# flouro to a swivel for? 

2. When would you ever be putting 80# of drag on 80# flouro? You shouldn't come close to this on a reel. The only reason you would ever come close to that would be when wiring 80# leader, in which case, refer to question number one. If the answer is tuna fishing (livebaiting or chunking), then I will tell you there is a reason nobody out of venice uses swivels for everyday tuna fishing. If you are rigging ballys (either naked or with dusters, small ilanders, etc.) on 80# flouro, then you definitely don't need to be taking wraps on 80# flouro.


----------



## Ocean Master

And back to the ball bearing swivels. I use Sampo silver swivels. The process 
to make them black actually weakens the swivel and it's bearings....


----------



## Chris V

I use to use Sampos. I'm sure they are still awesome, but I did have two open up on me on billfish and that left a bad taste. Possible bad pack, who knows.

I've been using the Billfisher ball bearing snaps and have been very happy with them.


----------



## MrFish

Chris V said:


> I use to use Sampos. I'm sure they are still awesome, but I did have two open up on me on billfish and that left a bad taste. Possible bad pack, who knows.
> 
> I've been using the Billfisher ball bearing snaps and have been very happy with them.


I use the Billfishers also and just had the snap break at the bend while trying Kim's knot test. 200# ball bearing. Hope it's not a bad batch and only the one, because this pack is on the majority of my rods right now. I guess I'll replace them all just in case.


----------



## Chris V

MrFish said:


> I use the Billfishers also and just had the snap break at the bend while trying Kim's knot test. 200# ball bearing. Hope it's not a bad batch and only the one, because this pack is on the majority of my rods right now. I guess I'll replace them all just in case.


LOL! That's just great

My all time favorites are the Diamond ball bearing snaps, but your fingers will bleed after a day using them


----------



## MrFish

For the record, the san diego jam held. The snap, not so much. Another thing to test.


----------



## Chris V

Curious....what did you secure the snap to?


----------



## MrFish

Chris V said:


> Curious....what did you secure the snap to?


I had a stretch of braid with a bimini attached to a 400# swivel via double swivel knot. I tied it to the bumper of my lawnmower and went to pulling. It wasn't very scientific.


----------



## Chris V

Haha that's awesome


----------



## Kim

Captain Woody, what I'm trying to do is make a wind on leader with a very short insert of leader material. I believe that to make this work I need to put the leader material under tension close to the rated breaking strength so that the servings won't slip when put under load fishing. So far every one with a 6 - 8 inch insert has failed because the serving slips and I think it's because I didn't have enough tension on the fluorocarbon when I wrapped the serving. 

Why do I want to do this? I've read where someone has done it and I like the idea of a short wind on leader for casting instead of the long wind on leaders I now use. 

Chris I tried the six turn Uni Knot like you suggested and my results were no where as good as yours were. Using a new spool of #80 Suffex Superior monofilament which averaged #76 for breaking strength, I tied 10 six turn uni knots with tightly wrapped turns and moistened each one before tightening the knot. Each one failed in the same place, where the line looped through the eye of the swivel and the average breaking strength of the knots was #45.2 or 59.5% of the breaking strength of the line. I also checked the scale I was using with a #50 weight and it read #49.8 so I figured that was close enough.

You know those broke knots kind of look like little Ebola virus guys.


----------



## Kim

two button push sorry.


----------



## SnapperSlapper

Like I said, the tackle shops in the area will rig your outfits for you for a small fee.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Kim said:


> Why do I want to do this? I've read where someone has done it and I like the idea of a short wind on leader for casting instead of the long wind on leaders I now use.


K.I.S.S. Keep it simple. A short windon leader will be too short in just a couple of re-ties, anyway. Probably takes you what, 6 inches of line, at least, to tie a uni (or other favorite knot) to your popper?


And stop reading. And just tie the popper directly to the braid. It works fine. Leave the flouoro for livebaiting, chunking, and trolling ballys.




Kim said:


> I tied 10 six turn uni knots with tightly wrapped turns and moistened each one before tightening the knot


What are you moistening (I hate that word) your knots with? This could be your problem


----------



## Chris V

You do not need that much pressure before serving. 8lbs is plenty. The serving is not your strong point, the finger cuff is and as long as the half hitches are tight, you will not have a failure. 

I have made an untold number of splices over the years I've been doing this. I have yet to have a serving slip on my personal tackle or a customers including servings that have withstood fights of over 13 hours on heavy tackle. Trust me, drop the unnecessary tension. Get it tight, serve, use.


----------



## Chris V

And go more than 8 inches. The extra length will not hurt. Go 2-3ft and you will be fine


----------



## Kim

Captain Woody sometimes an idea just appeals to me and I want to see if it's possible. I appreciate it that some give me well intentioned advice even though it isn't the solution to the problem I'm trying to solve. So I'll give what ever it is my full attention and effort to solve the problem I'm working on. Asking for advice on here sometimes will get the right answer quickly and other times that's not the case. Meanwhile I'll peck away at it until I figure it out, someone says "hey did you try this" or I become convinced that it's not possible and then I'll forget about it but I can at least say I gave it my best shot. Right now it just happens to be a terminal knot for a swivel using #80 fluorocarbon leader that will hold at #70.


----------



## Kim

Dang you are missing the whole point! I'm trying to see if it's possible do it with no more than 6 - 8 inches of insert. I already know that three feet of insert works just fine and that's not the issue at hand. I'm trying to duplicate something I read about to see if it's possible. If what I had read provided complete detailed information I wouldn't be scratching my head saying what the heck nor would I be asking for help on the forum about the very things making me scratch my head in the first place because I would already have the specific information.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Kim some might view you as an innovator or revolutionary one day


----------



## Kim

Captain Woody I'm too old to be either of those and I'm really glad I'm not a cat or I would already be dead. I almost forgot, no I didn't spit on the line I use a little soapy water in a spray bottle, one squirt and it's slick and it rinses off clean in water.


----------



## sniperpeeps

I like those Billfishers too. Kim there are two knots I use for connecting large mono/flouro to swivels and I have never had either fail. Uni and loop. I use the uni up to 100lb and above that I use the loop knot. I really love the loop knot it is simple and super strong.


----------



## Justin618

Kim said:


> Captain Woody I'm too old to be either of those and I'm really glad I'm not a cat or I would already be dead. I almost forgot, no I didn't spit on the line I use a little soapy water in a spray bottle, one squirt and it's slick and it rinses off clean in water.


What soapy water? You do know soap is made to clean grease and oil and that fishing line has a natural lube to it and dish soap will pull all that out and dry out the line.

Just lick it. When i did my bimini the other night I lubed the line up well and it tied down with ease. Never use soap


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Justin618 said:


> What soapy water? You do know soap is made to clean grease and oil and that fishing line has a natural lube to it and dish soap will pull all that out and dry out the line.


Who told you this?



Justin618 said:


> Just lick it.


That's what she said


----------



## Justin618

Captain Woody Woods said:


> Who told you this?
> 
> 
> 
> That's what she said


Just someone who has caught more marlin and tuna then anyone on the site. 

Just use spit, kim. Can't go wrong


----------



## Kim

If I start spitting on my knots the next thing you rapscallions will have me doing is smoking cigarettes and carrying on with loose women.


----------



## Justin618

Kim said:


> If I start spitting on my knots the next thing you rapscallions will have me doing is smoking cigarettes and carrying on with loose women.


Not a bad life lol.

But really, spit helps a ton. There is no way I could do 130lb knots without it


----------



## badonskybuccaneers

Maybe even start drinkn' rum and singing old sea shanties....


----------



## Chris V

Justin618 said:


> Just someone who has caught more marlin and tuna then anyone on the site.


Quite a claim. Who is this person? I don't recommend soap either but we soap down our rods and reels a couple times a season without any worry of this problem.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Justin618 said:


> Just someone who has caught more marlin and tuna then anyone on the site.


So that makes him right?



Justin618 said:


> There is no way I could do 130lb knots without it


Like your "cat's paw?"


----------



## Justin618

Captain Woody Woods said:


> So that makes him right?
> 
> 
> 
> Like your "cat's paw?"


Yes, I would take everything he says straight to the bank.

Yes, that was a cat's paw. Never failed me.

And yes, I guarantee he has caught more marlin and tuna then anyone here. Over 20 years chasing them in hawaii. Also, a 5lb shy of world record mahi mahi at the time (77lbs).


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

That is quite a claim indeed. Lot of tuna killers on this site, a few very well respected marlin fishermen here too...


----------



## Justin618

Captain Woody Woods said:


> That is quite a claim indeed. Lot of tuna killers on this site, a few very well respected marlin fishermen here too...


I know there is. I'm not saying there's not and no disrespect. Because trust me, i want to take my 130s out and land some.But, hawaiis tuna and marlin fishing is 100x better than here. Does that make him better? No. But I know he's slayed a ton in his day. Big ones too.

Joe yee is a family friend of his. I'm trying to see if he will get in contact with him and get me a lure or 2


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Just for the sake of arguing, your best Venice guys fish 150-170 days a year. The great majority of them catch 8-10 yellows a day, on average. Let's use the number 6 for a low conservative number. 

150x6= 900 yellows a year. I follow a lot of Kona guys. Never seen those kind of numbers in a year. I could be wrong.


----------



## Chris V

There's no way I could agree Hawaiian tuna and bill fishing is better. Far too many customers and friends that fish there throughout the year. I'd go as far as to say that gulf coast tuna fishing as top 3 in the US


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

You done much fishing outside of the emerald coast, Justin?


----------



## Chris V

Jesus, I'm not going to get caught up in this crap. Y'all enjoy the rest of this


----------



## Justin618

Captain Woody Woods said:


> Just for the sake of arguing, your best Venice guys fish 150-170 days a year. The great majority of them catch 8-10 yellows a day, on average. Let's use the number 6 for a low conservative number.
> 
> 150x6= 900 yellows a year. I follow a lot of Kona guys. Never seen those kind of numbers in a year. I could be wrong.


Ok, so one guy brings in 8-10 a day when the limit is 3 per person in Louisiana? 

I would have to say that hawaii fishing is better than here as far as tuna and marlin. Guys catch 100lb+ yellows within 2 miles. Kayak guys bring in marlin and tuna with land clear as day.

Hoping to take my reels out soon. But, I ain't jumping in no open ocean


----------



## Justin618

Captain Woody Woods said:


> You done much fishing outside of the emerald coast, Justin?


I was stationed in hawaii but never got into it. Was honestly way too busy training and deploying. I had other interest than fishing at the time, too. Went out as a kid on grandfather's boat but didn't go well. Lol.


Anyways, none of this matters anyways. Kim, use spit and your knots will tighten down much better and with less effort. I did my bimini other night and kept lubing It and it worked flawlessly. Just had to stop, relube and continue


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Screw you guys, I'm going home


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Justin618 said:


> Ok, so one guy brings in 8-10 a day when the limit is 3 per person in Louisiana?


Holy hell. We are talking charter boats. Most with 6 passengers. Thus making the limit that day 18 fish. Not that anyone keeps anywhere close to that. Conservation, kill what you need. Tag the rest.


----------



## Justin618

Captain Woody Woods said:


> Holy hell. We are talking charter boats. Most with 6 passengers. Thus making the limit that day 18 fish. Not that anyone keeps anywhere close to that. Conservation, kill what you need. Tag the rest.


I'm talking about one guy....

Anyways. Back on topic. Doesn't matter anyways


----------



## panhandleslim

Justin618 said:


> I'm talking about one guy....


The suspense is killing me. Who the hell is 'THIS ONE GUY.' Everybody there is friends with Joe Yee and so is half the rest of the world. Who is this guy. The only guys in Kona, who catch more YFT than the guys in the Gulf are the guys who go far from Kona on commercial boats. Most of them just hand line. As a matter of fact, the guys who fish near the island, who catch the most also handline. I thought I knew some of the best, over there, but since you know him please tell us.


----------



## Justin618

panhandleslim said:


> The suspense is killing me. Who the hell is 'THIS ONE GUY.' Everybody there is friends with Joe Yee and so is half the rest of the world. Who is this guy. The only guys in Kona, who catch more YFT than the guys in the Gulf are the guys who go far from Kona on commercial boats. Most of them just hand line. As a matter of fact, the guys who fish near the island, who catch the most also handline. I thought I knew some of the best, over there, but since you know him please tell us.


The thread isn't about him. I was just saying, and I guess I ruffled some feathers. Didn't mean anything by it to cause such an uproar. 

Yes, there are guys on here that catch a lot of tuna and marlin. Not denying that one bit. You can't google his name. He's not a known guy you can look up. Yes, he handlines them as well. 

Just gonna leave it at that. It doesn't matter anymore. The thread is about Kims question on swivels.


----------



## panhandleslim

Heh, Justin, nobody is upset with you and I don't think anybody's 'feathers are ruffled'. 

Only asked because I'm always looking for the best of the best. That's how we learn. I know a couple of guys, over there, who are pretty good. Just thought we might know the same people.


----------



## Justin618

panhandleslim said:


> Heh, Justin, nobody is upset with you and I don't think anybody's 'feathers are ruffled'.
> 
> Only asked because I'm always looking for the best of the best. That's how we learn. I know a couple of guys, over there, who are pretty good. Just thought we might know the same people.


Maybe not upset at me, but questioned it and may have denied my claim.

He hasn't done any marlin or big tuna fishing in a while. But, did it in hawaii for 20+ years. I know of him and about 4 or 5 others. Oh, and this was all from a 19' boat lol. 

Send me a PM if you'd like.

Back on topic. Sorry we got out of hand, kim.


----------



## SnapperSlapper

Justin, can you hook me up with some joe yee super plungers? If you can, I will take 12 as long as they are less than $80 each. Hook a brother up.


----------



## Kim

I have a bunch of Joe Yee lures that I bought at the stadium flea market on Sundays when I was stationed there. Some I was never able to polish off the beaten they had taken prior to ending up on a flea market table. Most of them I was able to make look pretty much new with a jewelers polish wheel. When I bought them all I was looking for were cheap lure heads to skirt up and fish with ended up a great deal for me.

Fishing the FADS around Oahu, even my exwife could catch YFT and she is the worst fisherwoman on Gods green earth. The only better place I ever fished for YFT was the Galvez Banks off Guam.

Back to the knot issue. I'm trying to duplicate something that someone has already done, tension #80 fluorocarbon leader to #70 to serve it. He never said how long the leader material was or what knot he used to secure it to the swivel. It's like a standing challenge if it can't go #70 on the #80 fluorocarbon, that knot isn't even in the game. So be sports about this, rather than just say use this or that knot or get someone that knows what they are doing etc. tie the knots, test them and then if it passes the #70/#80 criteria then lay it on me. I would appreciate the numbers data too. If it falls short of that it's all moot. If you say the knot passes the challenge I'll give it a shot and if it works you will have my thanks and gratitude.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Why polish off battle scars? Shows the lure raises fish. Not a beauty contest


----------



## Justin618

SnapperSlapper said:


> Justin, can you hook me up with some joe yee super plungers? If you can, I will take 12 as long as they are less than $80 each. Hook a brother up.


I haven't even tried to get me one yet lol.


----------



## panhandleslim

So, Kim, getting back to your line to swivel knot conundrum, (1) what exact line are you trying to tie to the swivel?

A little less important but I'm curious, (2) where is this swivel in your chain of terminal tackle?


----------



## WhyMe

Ok. Here is what I think....first off I agree with Kim about getting the right swivel on your line so your line won't twist. Having twisted line sucks and it does not work well with the lures one is pulling. Second, I agree with Captain W. Woods about the knots one should know them and perfect them. I too have not had a knot fail on me, it seems to me it's always something else, but not the knot.....
Third, I learn everything I know about fishing from watching TV and I don't even have cable. Hehe

Anyways, tight lines.
WhyMe 
Mako My Dayo


----------



## Kim

Captain Pinney, tuna fishing I use a uni or a SD jam knot with swivel and GT Knot without swivel on spinning gear, on trolling gear Bimini Twist with a swivel knot or a Benjamin Knot. They work just fine fishing, I'll never use enough drag to cause a failure so while fishing no problem. However using them in static testing is a whole different situation. There is no flex of the rod and trying to get them to hold#70 isn't happening. The best I could do using Yo Zuri #80 was#60 and that was using the Benjamin Knot and the knot broke when I tried to put a serving on the leader. I had to make a road trip to Tuscaloosa so this has put my short insert/knot madness on hold for a few days.

The scale I'm using is within#. 2 at#50. The leader breaking strength averaged #82. Using crimps I can duplicate what I read about but it was stated a knot was used. I haven't been able to find out which knot was used.


----------



## Kim

As I mentioned on the post in the General section I finally had someone come through with a winning knot. One of the JM guys on 360 sent me a PM and diagram. The AG Chain knot is one strong knot. I've tested it head to head against the Uni, SD Jam, Palomar and modified Uni and it won hands down easily against each of them.

In the knot diagram step one the line should go through the eye twice as you can see in step 4 and he recommends using a short piece of Kevlar over the leader where the two wraps on the eye are and not to cross over the loops through the eye. Also to make the knot termination neater a rizutto knot works great.


----------



## Captain Woody Woods

Seriously?


----------



## Kim

Don't take my word for it try it out for yourself, one knot on each end of a leader secured to something on one end and pull on the other until a knot breaks. You might be surprised at the results but if you are going to use a longer leader, make sure that the chain knot is way from you so when the other knot breaks you won't get whipped with snap back.


----------



## FishFighter92

You would think we need Copernicus and Isaac Newton to come back and figure this one out. Just go fish for goodness sake and if your line breaks have a beer and tie up another one.


----------



## Kim

Thank you for another insight but the knot issue has been resolved. The line tests out at#78,the long line is the tag and the short piece the main line.


----------

