# Tell me about lever actions



## Lloyd (Mar 13, 2012)

I am curious about lever actions, ive owned every type of gun BUT lever actions 

Always been into "tactical" style stuff

Today i was shooting a lever action BB gun and it got me wanting to look into a entry-level lever gun

Anyone got any recommendations? What to look for?

Looking for something for a plinker, in a common cheap caliber

I dont like the idea of a 30-30 do they make 223 lever guns?


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

Get a Henry .22, or .22 magnum...:thumbsup:


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## skullworks (Oct 2, 2007)

You can also get them in pistol cartridges. .357 mag, .44 mag, 45 long colt...etc.


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## kaferhaus (Oct 8, 2009)

.223 lever guns are around but they ain't "entry level" price wise.

The good ol 30-30 seems to not get much respect on this board but it's still a great caliber and has no doubt taken more deer sized game than anything else on the planet. And ammo is cheap....

I really like the pistol caliber lever guns for informal plinking. The 44Mag version is also good on hogs and deer sized game at appropriate ranges. The 45 Colt can also fill that bill but you have to hand load to get the full potential it's capable of.

Again, don't sell that 30-30 short... they're also easy on the shoulder and accurate enough to take any deer size animal at normal hunting ranges.. out to 150yds with "normal" ammo and 200+ with the new leverevolution ammo.


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## MathGeek (Mar 31, 2012)

The Marlin and the Winchester level guns are common. The action is most commonly used with rimmed cartridges of moderate power, the 30-30 and the 44 magnum. Accuracy is usually below a good bolt gun or semi-auto, and accurizing techniques are not easily available as in bolt guns and semi-autos.  Some gunsmiths claim to be able to make them accurate, but you have no idea how accurate a given gun might be until after you've spent hundreds of dollars. In contrast, a good semi-auto in the hands of a good gunsmith should yield 1 MOA and a good bolt-gun accurized by a good smith will probably yield 0.5 MOA or better. A lot of lever guns will never do better than 3 MOA, and some will be worse. 

The other downside is that most lever guns cannot shoot high BC bullets because of the tube magazine. Most available BCs are below 0.3.

Lever guns can be short and handy, but because they use a lot of steel rather than alloy or composites, they don't tend to be light.


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## kaferhaus (Oct 8, 2009)

I've had several Marlin 30-30s that shot better than 1.5" 3 shot groups. I had one that shot .75" groups with Federal Factory ammo. Gave it to my oldest son 20yrs ago and he still hunts with it.

No gunsmith is going to guarantee you .5" groups out of a bolt gun without removing over a grand from your wallet. Most won't make that guarantee no matter how much money you have.

"Most" semi autos are going to require several hundred dollars of investment to get them shooting under 1". Most require re-barreling at the very least.

In my extensive lever gun experience the "average" Winchester or Marlin 30-30 is going to shoot about 2 MOA with a competent trigger operator and good ammo. The Marlin will usually shoot a little better right out of the box.

You CAN use high BC (pointed) bullets in them by "loading two". One in the chamber and one in the tube. You CAN make some pretty dramatic accuracy gains just by doing so... No lever gun is ever going to be a target rifle nor are the vast majority of bolt guns or semis without spending copious amounts of cash.

If you don't hit it with two shots the third isn't gonna matter anyway.


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## MathGeek (Mar 31, 2012)

kaferhaus said:


> I've had several Marlin 30-30s that shot better than 1.5" 3 shot groups. I had one that shot .75" groups with Federal Factory ammo. Gave it to my oldest son 20yrs ago and he still hunts with it.
> 
> No gunsmith is going to guarantee you .5" groups out of a bolt gun without removing over a grand from your wallet. Most won't make that guarantee no matter how much money you have.
> 
> ...


Loading your own pointed bullets can improve accuracy and BC. I like the 125 grain Nosler ballistic tip in my Marlin 30-30. It's the only load I've had that shoots 2 MOA or better in the gun, and its measured BC is 0.306, which is much lower than the BC claimed by Nosler. 

Two shots is fine for deer, but I'd prefer to load a full magazine if hunting hogs or bear or some other critter that could turn and charge. Self-defense applications also require a bullet that allows a full magazine. 

I've had a number of off the shelf bolt guns shoot MOA out of the box, most of the one's I've owned, in fact. 0.5 MOA usually requires a custom barrel, but I've never invested more than a grand in smithing to get it.

The Marlin is a fine gun for what it is, but a gun that shoots a 1.5 MOA group (3 shots) once in a while really isn't a 1.5 MOA gun. To me a 1.5 MOA gun should shoot have an average group size of 1.5 MOA for five shot groups.


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## kaferhaus (Oct 8, 2009)

"self defense" issues are close range issues and the BC of the bullet is meaningless.

5 shot groups out of a "sporter weight" barrel are in my opinion a poor judge of the rifle's real world accuracy. Are you going to shoot at the animal 5 times? "Practical accuracy" = where does the first shot out of a cold clean bore impact and does it impact in the same place every time? 

Many books (a few are even worthwhile) have been written on the subject of accuracy and the definition is dependent on the desired use and "type" of rifle.

Are you going to wait until the barrel cools to ambient temp before each and every shot? Barrels move with heat... sporter weight barrels move a lot with heat... heat gets the molecules moving about which also affects the harmonics of the barrel... I could go on for days....

However, unless you have a 100yd tunnel to shoot in, the conditions are likely to change while you let the barrel cool down between shots.... further making the "test" flawed.

Target and varmint barrels should be tested with 5rd groups. trying the same with a sporter weight barrel is pretty dumb unless you're a gun rag writer or someone easily led by those that haven't a clue.

I've built both bench rest rifles and hunting rifles for over 35yrs. The largest contributors to accuracy are good barrels and good bullets. Factory rifles do not come with the former, period. 

Factory rifles are built with one thing in mind and that's speed of assembly.

If you want to start a post on "accuracy" please do.... I think we've hi-jacked this guy's thread long enough


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

To me a plinker is a .22. It's the only caliber that you can really afford to shoot a lot of .
Winchester .22s have gone sky high. Expect to pay a minimum of $500 and probably more.
Browning makes a lever .22 but they aren't cheap either.
Marlin makes the Model 39 and they are great guns but used ones are going to be $400 and up.
As somebody said earlier, look into the Henry if you want a .22. I would stay away from the magnum. That ammo is not cheap either.
If you want a 30/30, you can still find reasonable Winchesters and Marlins, especially Marlins at around $300, maybe a little less if you are lucky.


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## MathGeek (Mar 31, 2012)

kaferhaus said:


> "self defense" issues are close range issues and the BC of the bullet is meaningless.


Self-defense is usually short range, not always. And it is not uncommon that hunting and plinking firearms are pressed into service for self-defense using hunting or plinking ammunition that is readily available because there is no time to arrange for more appropriate ammunition. I prefer that the hunting or target ammunition I use in a gun also be suitable for self-defense, should a gun be unexpectedly needed in that role so that 1) the gun is already sighted in for the ammunition. 2) the gun is known to feed and function well with the ammunition 3) the recoil characteristics are the same. Finally, one needs to consider that a defensive situation might arise while hunting and that a hunting firearm might be pressed into self-defense service with the same hunting ammo one is carrying. There was a situation several years ago in the midwest where some lunatic started picking off innocent hunters. When hunting areas with toothy predators, I like to keep the rifle fully loaded while packing out just in case a toothy predator threatens me or one of my children. A two shot rifle is suboptimal here.


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## MikeH (Jul 14, 2009)

I prefer marlin or henry over winchester simply because I've never got use to the top eject. If you ever want to scope one in the future the side eject guns make it easier.


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## bcp280z (Mar 29, 2011)

I've yet to have anyother lever asides from my rough rider as well, I'd say if it's just for fun, 22, but if ya have any wheelguns, go for a common cal, 38/357 would be a great combo.

Or, it may or may not cost less, get you a Mare's Leg! They were built for fun.


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## Lloyd (Mar 13, 2012)

thanks for the info guys

from browsing on forums it seems alot of guys dont like the safety on the marlins, im one to never use them so i may go with one that isnt so lawyered up


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

You are right. Most people don't like the safety on the Marlins or the Winchester. In my opinion, the later tang safety on the Winchester isn't as annoying as the crossbolt safety that the previous Winchesters had and that the Marlins have.


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## kaferhaus (Oct 8, 2009)

The safety button issue always amazed me.... just leave the damn thing off.... then the rifle works exactly like the older models do.... leave the hammer down and it's "safe". Pull the hammer back to fire... I've never understood that logic. I do like the smooth sided "look" better though.... functionally it means nothing.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

For me the "safety" issue is just aesthetics. I know you can just leave it off. It's the same reason I'll never buy a Smith and Wesson with the internal lock. Not only does it look bad but it's not needed.


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## woody (Oct 17, 2007)

If you are looking for a "quality" lever action, look no farther than a "Browning BLR".
They are chambered for most center fire hunting calibers and are really nice rifles.


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## Baitcaster (Oct 4, 2007)

woody said:


> If you are looking for a "quality" lever action, look no farther than a "Browning BLR".
> They are chambered for most center fire hunting calibers and are really nice rifles.


don't forget the Savage 99


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## kaferhaus (Oct 8, 2009)

Savage 99s are sweet, but they're also heavy and I've never had one that shot "great". Good yes but never had one that'd impress anyone with its accuracy.

The BLR has to be the most accurate lever gun ever made. But they're way too expensive. You can usually buy about 3 used "beater" marlins for the price of a BLR.

I "lucked into" a 243 BLR a few years ago that's almost in new condition for a very good price. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.


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## aaronious45 (Dec 15, 2011)

I've had 3 and have 1 now, a 3030 336 marlin, a 35rem 336 marlin and a 3030 mod94 Winchester. I prefer the 336 over the Winchester and prefer the 35 over the 3030


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## thedudeabides (Jan 17, 2012)

If you're just plinking, then I would recommend a Henry .22. Smooth action and pretty decent accuracy for the price. Plus you can shoot shorts, longs, and lr's out of the same gun. Mine has provided many hours of fun on the cheap. I usually buy the bulk 550 ct. boxes of federal ammo (about $18) and they cycle just fine. Or for pests/varmints around the house I'll use the cci cb shorts ... Super, super quiet and still very powerful.


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