# What is the benefit in a bailless spinning reel...



## #1hookup (Aug 20, 2008)

Hey guys, I have a question about something i have heard of and only seen a few times from some guys during bonita fishin off the pbp. I just put together my first Cobia season setup. I have a brand new 8ft. rod that i got from outcast, and a revamped 704z. My wife bought me the reel off ebay a few months ago. It is spooled with 300yds 50# power pro and 50 yards mono backing. I saw a conversion kit the otherday online to get rid of the bail wire. What is the benefit of this, and would it be worth me spending another 20 bucks on a kit. Just wondering also do yall think this setup would be okay for kingfishing off the pier?


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Don't ask me, I can throw both and still don't see the advantage of a bail less reel. I'm told its faster, but Im not any quicker. I think it's nostalgia.


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## Roudy Redneck (Mar 31, 2013)

The advantage to having a manual on a reel is Really nothing. Its mostly Personal.


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## Bodupp (Oct 3, 2007)

Bailless reels require you to pick the line up with your finger after a cast, preventing a loose loop of line from forming when the bail flips over. If that happens, your next cast will be a mess.


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

I think they are popular on the piers for two reasons:

1: Its easier to snobble kings with them. You hold the line with your finger, when a king comes in for the strike you let it go and free spool it for a few seconds to let him eat then its easy to pick the line back up and reel/set the hook all in one quick motion.

2: When that cobia pops up and there are a half dozen other people with jigs throwing at it, you want to wing that jig out hard and fast and really let it fly, but with a manual you can quickly and easily stop the flight of the jig and land it where you want it and put it right in front of the fish. The guys that are really good can "feather" the line and even though they throw the jig hard and fast, it will barely make a splash when it hits the water. Plus they are just plain cool! hehe


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

I agree with Chris Never Considered myself a Rat But Fished the PB & Nav Pier when I was a lot Younger, Fished with a Mitchell 302 0r 402 With Bail I was just as Fast as someone with a No Bail, All You Have too do is KEEP the Bail Open!!! Just ask Mrs. Pat, Rodney P and If he was Still Here Frank!!! All Legends in their Own Time!! The Good Old Days!!! Damn I'm Old!!


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

I think it's just a pier thing. It's amazing how I, and everyone else, always free spooled Kings off the pier but on a boat you just throw out a bait and the King's catch themselves every time. Too many to even remember. So having a manual bail and free spooling is NOT necessary. Try it and you will see. King's don't pick up a bait and eat it. They slash the bait and are hooked..!


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

The manual bail is also for people to stand there spinning it as they scan the waters..!!


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Snobbling king a king with a bail is just as easy with a bail. It's the exact same thing. I've done it for as long as I can remember with a bailed reel and have never experienced a disadvantage that was gained with a manual bailed reel. I can free line just as easy flipping a bail 

Feathering line and stopping a jig mid flight is also accomplished the exact same way with a bailed reel. You have the exact same line access with the bail open and all that's needed is the bail to close to retrieve; no needing to finger the line to the roller.

If you stand two setups, one bailed and one manual, and have two experienced casters run up and throw at a target about 70yds away. Not one cast, but three or four. It's not just speed either, but accuracy too. I guarantee that the manual bailed guy will not be any quicker.


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

Ocean Master said:


> I think it's just a pier thing. It's amazing how I, and everyone else, always free spooled Kings off the pier but on a boat you just throw out a bait and the King's catch themselves every time. Too many to even remember. So having a manual bail and free spooling is NOT necessary. Try it and you will see. King's don't pick up a bait and eat it. They slash the bait and are hooked..!


 Yep!! I always throw a Live Bait out when Bottom Fishing and Just set The Drag and a lot of times before I put the Rod In The Holder It's Fish On!!! Hell I think it was 2009 the Kings were So Thick I Could See 20 or 30 .. 15 -20 foot under My Boat!!!:w00t:


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## BlueH20Fisher (Mar 20, 2008)

The proper way to cast any spinning reel is to catch the line with your finger and close the bail manually. So getting rid of the bail only eliminates a step. It's not only advantageous on a pier... No one with a bailed reel will be faster at casting than someone experience with a bailless reel. A bail is like a training wheel. Only advantage to a bail is fly lining a bait out of a boat, a lot of slack and rocking boat will cause line to fall off roller....


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

You can't compare boat and pier fishing, the amount of line and slack you have out on the pier makes a ton of difference, a king can't hook itself if the slack gives him time to feel something off and spit it. That's why you feed them line and let them eat it before setting the hook from the pier. But I agree it is mostly preference and familiarity. If you want a bailless practice later, use what you know. The season is here.


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## Randall2point0 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wirelessly posted

The 704z manual kit does not come with a bearing roller. I did a little modifying and put a 706z bearing and roller on it. But with the roller washer against the manual kit there was just enough room for the line to get pinched and get caught. Didn't happen often but it was still a flaw. I was going to try different washers so it would fit more flush but just haven't messed with it since.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Ever had a bail close up on u casting? When throwing lures the reel can turn causing the bail to close either popping off the lure or the lure flying back @ u or someone else. Once your use to Manuals, u usually stay with them. All my larger spinning reels are manuals, No bails. Less wieght & mechanical parts to fail. When your 1 cast may be your only chance, one less thing to cause grief.


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## Prince Caspian (Jun 13, 2011)

KingCrab said:


> Ever had a bail close up on u casting? When throwing lures the reel can turn causing the bail to close either popping off the lure or the lure flying back @ u or someone else. Once your use to Manuals, u usually stay with them. All my larger spinning reels are manuals, No bails. Less wieght & mechanical parts to fail. When your 1 cast may be your only chance, one less thing to cause grief.


Once... On a 950 that I set the bail right on top of the release. Luckily the flouro leader gave way and spit a wad of braid in my general direction. Sounded like a .22 pistol shot!


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

KingCrab said:


> Ever had a bail close up on u casting? When throwing lures the reel can turn causing the bail to close either popping off the lure or the lure flying back @ u or someone else. Once your use to Manuals, u usually stay with them. All my larger spinning reels are manuals, No bails. Less wieght & mechanical parts to fail. When your 1 cast may be your only chance, one less thing to cause grief.


This!

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


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## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

I feel like the proper answer to the OP, is this close to the prime fishing season I would not worry about it. Yeah a Bailess will help you a little, but for 90% or more of casts there is no difference.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

You have to get one and get use to it for a while and you will answer the question. But mainly less maintenance. You only have the roller to worry about no spring and two contact points like on a flip bail.


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## Austin (Sep 30, 2007)

I just enjoy fishing a manual.. that simple for me.


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

*I see no advantage and would love to put the bails back on the few Mitchell 402's I have. I was told it's more of a peir thing and what the deal is with the maual is if you accidently hit the bail when casting a Cobia jig at a few ounces in weight, the jig will keep flying but not on your line, lol. And at the cost of a good jig you would not want to do that many times :blink:*


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

TURTLE said:


> I see no advantage and would love to put the bails back on the few Mitchell 402's I have. I was told it's more of a peir thing and what the deal is with the maual is if you accidently hit the bail when casting a Cobia jig at a few ounces in weight, the jig will keep flying but not on your line, lol. And at the cost of a good jig you would not want to do that many times :blink:


I'll trade you some bails for those manuals! Lol

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Chris V said:


> Don't ask me, I can throw both and still don't see the advantage of a bail less reel. I'm told its faster, but Im not any quicker. I think it's nostalgia.


 
I agree, more of a novelty if you ask me. Hardcore pier rats love the 706zs, but they're a pain in the ass. Can't even even really use them on a boat.

I read yesterday something about PENN putting the 706 back into production.


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## jigslinger (Sep 30, 2007)

TURTLE said:


> *I see no advantage and would love to put the bails back on the few Mitchell 402's I have. I was told it's more of a peir thing and what the deal is with the maual is if you accidently hit the bail when casting a Cobia jig at a few ounces in weight, the jig will keep flying but not on your line, lol. And at the cost of a good jig you would not want to do that many times :blink:*


The problem with the bails on the old Mitchells is there isn't a bearing and roller.


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

jigslinger said:


> The problem with the bails on the old Mitchells is there isn't a bearing and roller.


*There are on the ones I have that have bails, must be some aftermarket thing. *


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## TURTLE (May 22, 2008)

John B. said:


> I'll trade you some bails for those manuals! Lol
> 
> Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


 
*Deal. When and where?*


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

TURTLE said:


> Deal. When and where?


I'll have to dig around storage for them. I'll send you a pm when I find them.

Sent from my LG G2X using Forum Runner


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Huh? Lol.

I know this thread is old but I'm with Chris V. There are a few insignificant details that manual users will preach as being better but I just don't see it. The only argument I will agree with is the accidental bail flip during the cast...which happens less than a percent of the time. A highly skilled caster of a reel w/bail is just as fast as the skilled guy with a manual. As far as feathering and all that finesse stuff...can all be done with a bail.


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## Inn Deep (Oct 3, 2007)

I surf fish a lot. I like my old 706z because of the big spool. Cast better and more like for bigger fish to run with.


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Yakavelli said:


> Huh? Lol.
> 
> I know this thread is old but I'm with Chris V. There are a few insignificant details that manual users will preach as being better but I just don't see it. The only argument I will agree with is the accidental bail flip during the cast...which happens less than a percent of the time. A highly skilled caster of a reel w/bail is just as fast as the skilled guy with a manual. As far as feathering and all that finesse stuff...can all be done with a bail.


 You and Chris V are WRONG....SORRY....I challenge ANYONE on this planet to have a casting contest bailed reel against manual.....5 ,50yd cast, and see who is done the quickest.....BRING IT ......


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Hot damn! Let me put the popcorn on.


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## tiderider (Oct 1, 2007)

Back in the day Mitchell 302 and 402 reels were used by lots of folks. Problem is bale wire has a static line guide, no roll. Another issue it the bale can not be closed by hand, you either had to turn the rotor cup by hand or turn the handle. The PUM kit Mitchell provided gave you a live roller and the option to quickly release and pick up the line. Most all modern spinning reels allow the bale to quickly flipped closed thus making the manual pickup really just a personal choice.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

fairpoint said:


> You and Chris V are WRONG....SORRY....I challenge ANYONE on this planet to have a casting contest bailed reel against manual.....5 ,50yd cast, and see who is done the quickest.....BRING IT ......


Oh boy. Here is a train wreck.


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

fairpoint said:


> You and Chris V are WRONG....SORRY....I challenge ANYONE on this planet to have a casting contest bailed reel against manual.....5 ,50yd cast, and see who is done the quickest.....BRING IT ......


The bailed guy would probably be done way after you. He'd be too busy fighting all the fish


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## ThaFish (Feb 27, 2013)

fairpoint said:


> You and Chris V are WRONG....SORRY....I challenge ANYONE on this planet to have a casting contest bailed reel against manual.....5 ,50yd cast, and see who is done the quickest.....BRING IT ......


How about the same casting contest you just described with a dude with a manual reel against me or Pompano Joe w/ an Ambassadeur or a low-profile? It wouldn't even be a contest.


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## ThaFish (Feb 27, 2013)

Justin618 said:


> The bailed guy would probably be done way after you. He'd be too busy fighting all the fish


:2guns: SHOTS FIRED. 

& you're right.


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

ThaFish said:


> How about the same casting contest you just described with a dude with a bailed reel against me or Pompano Joe w/ an Ambassadeur or a low-profile? It wouldn't even be a contest.


Hell, my brother can cast the crap out of a 6/0. Probably twice as far as a bailed or manual. Dude is insane.


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## SpeedoJosh (Jun 15, 2013)

Don't know why you need kit. I went home, after a walk down the pier, used wire cutters and cut my bails off. Now I can cast twice as fast. :tt2:


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## ThaFish (Feb 27, 2013)

SpeedoJosh said:


> Don't know why you need kit. I went home, after a walk down the pier, used wire cutters and cut my bails off. Now I can cast twice as fast. :tt2:


Josh, what you did will work. But here's a trick I learned. Instead of just cutting your bail off, just remove the entire rotor. Then you don't have to deal with that pesky bail arm at all. You'll see the difference in distance, ease of use, & an instant boost to your "cool factor" almost immediately. Thank me later.


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## SpeedoJosh (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks for the advice. Just finished it up. While I was doing that, I removed all the eyes from the rod, except the last one. Less friction = more distance. Going to be able to cast at least an extra 50ft now.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Roudy ******* said:


> The advantage to having a manual on a reel is Really nothing. Its mostly Personal.


The advantage is when your throwing a lure say a heavy ling lure the bail does't flip over causing the lure to pop off or even worse come flying back at u or someone else. Same with a gotcha. Less mechanical things to wear & break.


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## ThaFish (Feb 27, 2013)

SpeedoJosh said:


> Thanks for the advice. Just finished it up. While I was doing that, I removed all the eyes from the rod, except the last one. Less friction = more distance. Going to be able to cast at least an extra 50ft now.


I'm gonna do that as well. Good thinking. Why do people even take their reels to Joe & Keith to have mods done when we're the ones with all the good ideas? :thumbup:


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

fairpoint said:


> You and Chris V are WRONG....SORRY....I challenge ANYONE on this planet to have a casting contest bailed reel against manual.....5 ,50yd cast, and see who is done the quickest.....BRING IT ......


If two skilled/seasoned fishermen are side by side at the rail, one with a bail and one without, the bail has nothing to do with it. The guy with the bail is gonna be sitting there, bail flipped, with his finger on the line...same as you. The guy standing next to you with his bail not flipped IS gonna be slower. Not me...the bail don't slow me down one bit.

Bottom line here...OP...pick the reel you like best and learn to master it.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Yakavelli said:


> If two skilled/seasoned fishermen are side by side at the rail, one with a bail and one without, the bail has nothing to do with it. The guy with the bail is gonna be sitting there, bail flipped, with his finger on the line...same as you. The guy standing next to you with his bail not flipped IS gonna be slower. Not me...the bail don't slow me down one bit.
> 
> Bottom line here...OP...pick the reel you like best and learn to master it.


When throwing a lure u have to adjust the spool or bail flip will happen.


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

You should see my cousin cast a windlass. Man can he make that anchor fly!!


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

With bail... Of course.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Ocean Master said:


> The manual bail is also for people to stand there spinning it as they scan the waters..!!


I bought mine so I could do just that. When I was a kid I thought those guys were so cool!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Other than the baitcasters ,all I am getting is a bunch of BS....I got 100 dollars for whoevers got the balls to stand up to my challenge...5 throws at 50yds up and back in the quickest time....The people who know me know who's going to win......


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

The higher gear ratio will win..!


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Ocean Master said:


> The higher gear ratio will win..!


Its going to be a total package thing....I got a 11 ft fenwick 498 Mitchell with50lb power pro...that will throw a lightening bolt 100yds....And reload in seconds.....Does anybody really want any of that...?. With a Bail reel....?
The ONLY guys I'd even consider close would be guys that fish with a manual reel to begin with......The only reason I'm even bringing this up is to put the myth to rest......Bailess is better boys....I'm really surprised it didn't catch on in the freshwater fishing world......
Like what NASA was telling the VIRGIN engineers..."What you don't know is what you don't know"......


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

fairpoint said:


> Its going to be a total package thing....I got a 11 ft fenwick 498 Mitchell with50lb power pro...that will throw a lightening bolt 100yds....And reload in seconds.....Does anybody really want any of that...?. With a Bail reel....?
> The ONLY guys I'd even consider close would be guys that fish with a manual reel to begin with......The only reason I'm even bringing this up is to put the myth to rest......Bailess is better boys....I'm really surprised it didn't catch on in the freshwater fishing world......
> Like what NASA was telling the VIRGIN engineers..."What you don't know is what you don't know"......



If you're using a van staal I got my money on the challenger


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Justin618 said:


> If you're using a van staal I got my money on the challenger


Good your money spends just as good..... I'm waiting for the bailed spinners...I really do think it is an unfair challenge because I can still beat 95% of the guys that are fishing with manuals anyway...Plz somebody prove me wrong....lol....


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Somebody's getting awfully excited lol


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

Yakavelli said:


> Somebody's getting awfully excited lol


You think someone would challenge the whole forum on being able to catch the biggest or most fish, not who can cast further. Lol. Forgive him, must have been a slow day at the pier.

I have a dinghy with an outboard to get my bait out. I ain't casting my set ups lol.


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Justin618 said:


> You think someone would challenge the whole forum on being able to catch the biggest or most fish, not who can cast further. Lol. Forgive him, must have been a slow day at the pier.
> 
> I have a dinghy with an outboard to get my bait out. I ain't casting my set ups lol.


Your missing it dudud...Its the bailed fisherman thinking there is no advantage of using a bailess/manual reel.....I'm just proving a point that has been discussed ....It has nothing to do with accuracy..but I have to say I won a outcast cobia accuracy contest which gave me eligibility in the world championship contest in Destin ...which I won.....So yeah this ain't my first rodeo and once again this is to prove a point of manual reel vs bail reels...nothing more....I have nothing to prove other than that......


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

I have no say in this anyways lol. I've never used a bailless reel. 

But, there are guys who can cast much, much further than 100 yards. Some guys can cast conventionals further than guys with spinners, bailed or not.


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## lowprofile (Jan 6, 2013)

They're popular with east coast surf casters because the bails would close during a cast or before when hit by a wave and then they wouldn't notice and either snap their lures off or just feel like an idiot. Now most reels have some kind of a locking spring to prevent this from happening.

There's a lot of gear you see on boats and piers (van staals, zeebass, saltigas etc.) that were originally created for guys fishing rocks and beaches and had to be able to
Handle the abuse. Now it's just to show off.

Buying a VS for the pier is like scuba diving big kahunas.


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Justin618 said:


> I have no say in this anyways lol. I've never used a bailless
> 
> Well I have ....most all my life...


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

fairpoint said:


> why are you even chiming in dh... if you got beef then let me know....


Here.


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

I give....I'm going hunting....You bail guys keep bailing.....and I'm done here......good luck guys...


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm not arguing that the bail is better. I'm arguing that in general fishing conditions...it doesn't matter. I don't fish to see how much better I am than everyone else. I fish to catch fish...and I'm quite confident with my proficiency with the ultra-inferior bail.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Yakavelli said:


> I'm not arguing that the bail is better. I'm arguing that in general fishing conditions...it doesn't matter. I don't fish to see how much better I am than everyone else. I fish to catch fish...and I'm quite confident with my proficiency with the ultra-inferior bail.


That's cause your Yaking. In that enviro it's prolly better. Pier fishing, Not so. If u knotice how many bailess reals there are on the pier there must be more to it than mentioned. I've fished manual reels for 40yrs. Wouldn't have it any other way. Bait reels, Sure a bail reel. Larger fish, No. Its easy to flip line on or off the manual without turning the reel to click the bail. 1 simple move of the finger. On or off. But hey, What ever paddles your plastic.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

My "enviro" is the water. The yak is nothing more than a relatively recent addition to the arsenal...which also includes baitcasters, fly rods, bream reels, cane poles, cast nets, penn senators, gigs and...go figure...even a manual reel or two. I prefer a bail. I (and many others, I'm not special) am every bit as proficient with my choice of reel as anyone with a manual reel. I'm NOT slamming manual users. If it's what you like, it's what you like. If you want an admission that manual reels are a FRACTION of a second quicker on the draw...I admit it. You guys CAN cast .00375 seconds faster than me. I understand that on a pier you have to compete with 16 guys standing within arm's reach of you. I like fishing places where .00375 seconds means absolutely nothing. But hey, whatever crosses your line.

OP...ultimately...I hope we've answered your question. We, the collective fishermen if THE fishing forum, have come to the conclusion than manual reels are a FAR better choice if you are only going to be fishing the gulf piers...but you better practice! Sounds like you've got some fierce competition out there lol


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## Mullethead (Oct 4, 2007)

OK ... limiting the context to manual vs bail spinning reels ... I can go both ways ... I learned to sling a cig with706Z off the pier, and love them ... The advantages as I see it: 

Faster 2nd and third casts 
No bail to snap back 
Fewer parts, which means more reliable and lighter 
The roller on manual is typically a high quality ball bearing compared to a bushing on most bailed reels 

Seldom getting out to a pier lately , I have shifted my 706Zs from pier, to boat, and now they are on surf rods

Modern spinning reels, with bails have good rollers, and are becoming more reliable. 
My jigging reels, smaller light tackle spinning reels are all bailed models.

I still have an old green 706Z that I will bring to the pier once a year or so, and I love to flick a roller and listen to it spin for a loooooong time


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

Mullethead said:


> OK ... limiting the context to manual vs bail spinning reels ... I can go both ways ... I learned to sling a cig with706Z off the pier, and love them ... The advantages as I see it:
> 
> Faster 2nd and third casts
> No bail to snap back
> ...



Just a question, but why would you take a surf rod on the boat?


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## southern yakker (Jun 25, 2012)

It seems it's more the person than the reel. If you want to be quick and accurate practice is whats important, not the reel. I only have bailed reels but have used others from 706's to van staals. I could cast the same with those compared to an equivalent rod and reel. I can cast further, faster, and more accurate than one of my friends using the same set up and one of my friends can beat me at it all. I wouldn't mind having a bail less reel to mess around with but it isn't going to make a difference with fishability. I hardly pier fish but when I do I use my bailed reels and they do just fine!


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

fairpoint said:


> Its going to be a total package thing....I got a 11 ft fenwick 498 Mitchell with50lb power pro...that will throw a lightening bolt 100yds....And reload in seconds.....Does anybody really want any of that...?. With a Bail reel....?
> The ONLY guys I'd even consider close would be guys that fish with a manual reel to begin with......The only reason I'm even bringing this up is to put the myth to rest......Bailess is better boys....I'm really surprised it didn't catch on in the freshwater fishing world......
> Like what NASA was telling the VIRGIN engineers..."What you don't know is what you don't know"......


 Most reels built for fresh or salt were originally some type of manual bail, half bail, or some other experimental line pickup. Some really weird ones were built in the early days of spinning reels.


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## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

fairpoint said:


> I give....I'm going hunting....You bail guys keep bailing.....and I'm done here......good luck guys...


so in other words , you're "bailing" .......lol

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Mullethead (Oct 4, 2007)

Justin618 said:


> Just a question, but why would you take a surf rod on the boat?


I moved the reels to dedicated surf rods - I do not take surf rods on the boat  

Older 706Z make great surf casting reels - I think that was the orginal application


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## Justin618 (Aug 18, 2013)

Mullethead said:


> I moved the reels to dedicated surf rods - I do not take surf rods on the boat
> 
> Older 706Z make great surf casting reels - I think that was the orginal application


Lol. Ok that's what I was getting at. Was about to say I wanna see you fish with a 12' rod on a boat.


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Try'n Hard said:


> I bought mine so I could do just that. When I was a kid I thought those guys were so cool!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


They still are.  Problem is the compete factor some don't have or wan't.:001_huh:


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

Ocean Master said:


> The higher gear ratio will win..!


And also the longer rod !:001_huh:


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

lowprofile said:


> They're popular with east coast surf casters because the bails would close during a cast or before when hit by a wave and then they wouldn't notice and either snap their lures off or just feel like an idiot. Now most reels have some kind of a locking spring to prevent this from happening.
> 
> There's a lot of gear you see on boats and piers (van staals, zeebass, saltigas etc.) that were originally created for guys fishing rocks and beaches and had to be able to
> Handle the abuse. Now it's just to show off.
> ...


Right .:no: Try using power pro on a 706 or 302 & watch what happens to the reel. It will destroy it. Because the reel wasn't designed for the tension that's put on it .They were built for mono, (Stretch). I've had all three reels. Van Stahl tops all. Experience proves this. Just saying. If u havent used these reels for years, u really have no good input.:no:


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