# Ccw, not hunting question.



## advobwhite (Nov 22, 2012)

Will be getting my ccw and my wife's this year. I read on the statute that I am covered with my hunter safety course I took. I didn't see anything in the statute about mag limitations but think a full size gun will be sufficient for my needs and a full sized for my wife if she is comfortable with it due to recoil. I think 9mm would be fine as well given the reviews I have read on modern hp technology. We will have same cal and I would feel more secure knowing she has 9mm vs 380 acp. 

Any insight that can be given would be appreciated. Looking 450 or less range for each of them and I believe sig, ruger, and s&w all have offerings in that criteria. 

I always thought snubnose like ruger super blackhawk would be my first ccw, but from price and practicality standpoint, if I get that it will be a while before we get one for her. Also the more I thought about it, having a 44 mag even hp seemed irresponsible for me to get for first ccw given my lack of experience and potential over penetration, especially since the only reason I wanted one was the "cool" factor of a large caliber revolver. Maybe one day as a hunting side arm but need to think about those around me should I ever need to use it, heaven forbid.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

To be honest with you, a lot of things you are saying don't make sense.
A snub nose Super Blackhawk for concealed carry? That's a big gun and I can't say that I've ever seen one in a snub nose.
You need to decide on a gun that you don't mind carrying on a daily basis. There's an old saying - a .380 in the pocket beats a .45 back home in the safe.
Yes, your hunter safety course will satisfy the educational requirement.
Go rent a few guns at a range and see which ones you like the best and think "could I carry this all day?" 
A few that come to mind - S&W shield, S&W 642, Kahr CW9, Ruger LCP and there are many 
others.
Good luck.


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## advobwhite (Nov 22, 2012)

welldoya said:


> To be honest with you, a lot of things you are saying don't make sense.
> A snub nose Super Blackhawk for concealed carry? That's a big gun and I can't say that I've ever seen one in a snub nose.


Yes, that is what I was looking at a year ago when I thought it was possible to have an acceptable hunting revolver as a concealed carry. A year of research has shown me its not practical and as I said dangerous for passers by in the event it must be drawn.

Thank you for the input. I saw the m & p and lcp and the sig's entry level and also saw the KAHR but wasn't sure how good they are since I've never used one.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

You should probably take a good CCW class along with the wife. A lot of your questions will be answered, you'll be much more confident and competent, and the instructor can help you pick the proper weapon. You'll also be familiar with each others training, which will make going shooting more fun and rewarding. 

I'm very experienced with firearms and have been shooting almost my entire life. I'm going along with my wife to her training so that I'll be familiar with how she's been taught, and it's never too late to learn something new. Well worth the $$$.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

advobwhite said:


> Will be getting my ccw and my wife's this year. I read on the statute that I am covered with my hunter safety course I took. I didn't see anything in the statute about mag limitations but think a full size gun will be sufficient for my needs and a full sized for my wife if she is comfortable with it due to recoil. I think 9mm would be fine as well given the reviews I have read on modern hp technology. We will have same cal and I would feel more secure knowing she has 9mm vs 380 acp.
> 
> Any insight that can be given would be appreciated. Looking 450 or less range for each of them and I believe sig, ruger, and s&w all have offerings in that criteria.
> 
> I always thought snubnose like ruger super blackhawk would be my first ccw, but from price and practicality standpoint, if I get that it will be a while before we get one for her. Also the more I thought about it, having a 44 mag even hp seemed irresponsible for me to get for first ccw given my lack of experience and potential over penetration, especially since the only reason I wanted one was the "cool" factor of a large caliber revolver. Maybe one day as a hunting side arm but need to think about those around me should I ever need to use it, heaven forbid.


Yes you can get your CCW with a hunter education. The hunter education counts as your firearms training. But since you stated you have no clue about any of it I would 1.) Take a class 2.) Two talk to a lawyer specializes in such laws or at least have or know a lawyer that does so if you ever have to use that tool you will not be the creek without a paddle. Because carrying is a huge responsibility and when you have to take someone’s life (god forbid if that ever happened) you have major court fees, the emotions and possible PTS of killing someone, stress on the family, and sometime possibly not getting away with it even though you are covered by law. So you have to prepare yourself physically and mentally.

In the state of Florida there aren’t any mag restrictions like Massachusetts or California, but I would not conceal carry a full size handgun, open carry is different. I am 6’1” and about 215 lbs and I have carried a full size concealed and it was not fun. Also Florida has different weather, one day it will be 80 degrees the next 40. You won't be able to conceal carry a full size pistol comfortably/practically, or keep it up if you are wearing gym shorts or sweats like I do. The full size got in the way and was completely uncomfortable for the use of what I had it for…. Self-defense.

If you are worried about recoil I would suggest a small 9mm over a 380acp. I use to have a Ruger LCP which is a great carry piece but shooting that compared to my 9mm shield. The recoil the the LCP (.380) was more snappy than my shield. It didn't bother me but my girlfriend did not like it and she preferred to shoot my shield. Also the fact that you will be able to find ammo easier, cheaper, and practice more is key. The bad guy won’t know the difference if he/she is shot with a 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP etc. If I am conceal carrying I want something small based off comfort I will carry my shield, if I can open carry I will carry my Glock 19. If you live in Florida conceal carrying will be the majority of what you are doing and I suggest getting something small like the S&W Shield or body guard, XDS, LC9, Kahr CM9, Ruger LCP. I can also say I have put over 1,000 rounds through my shield without a single malfunction. I have fired everything from steel case to the +P premium self defense ammunition. But that has all been static shooting I have not been able to run it through some kind of course or through something that causes more dirt.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

advobwhite said:


> Yes, that is what I was looking at a year ago when I thought it was possible to have an acceptable hunting revolver as a concealed carry. A year of research has shown me its not practical and as I said dangerous for passers by in the event it must be drawn.
> 
> Thank you for the input. I saw the m & p and lcp and the sig's entry level and also saw the KAHR but wasn't sure how good they are since I've never used one.


An LCP in not a beginner's gun. It is small with a very long trigger. It's a pain to shoot accurately.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Evensplit said:


> You should probably take a good CCW class along with the wife. A lot of your questions will be answered, you'll be much more confident and competent, and the instructor can help you pick the proper weapon. You'll also be familiar with each others training, which will make going shooting more fun and rewarding.
> 
> I'm very experienced with firearms and have been shooting almost my entire life. I'm going along with my wife to her training so that I'll be familiar with how she's been taught, and it's never too late to learn something new. Well worth the $$$.


Money spent on quality self defense firearms training is a lot more important than money spent on firearms. Lots of instructors will loan or rent you a gun for training and after the training you will make much better choices when purchasing.


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## advobwhite (Nov 22, 2012)

Thank you all for the input. I love the info that is readily available on this forum.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> An LCP in not a beginner's gun. It is small with a very long trigger. It's a pain to shoot accurately.


LCP is not meant to shoot accurately out to "normal pistol range", it is meant to point and shoot within self defense range and neutralize the threat. The whole point of it being small is conceal carry which the name LCP (Light Compact Pistol). LCP is a great beginner pistol for conceal carry. It was the first pistol and my first carry pistol when I started carrying when I was 19 and carried that for about 3 years and honestly I think my mother carried one too. l never had a single problem, training is the key.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> LCP is not meant to shoot accurately out to "normal pistol range", it is meant to point and shoot within self defense range and neutralize the threat. The whole point of it being small is conceal carry which the name LCP (Light Compact Pistol). LCP is a great beginner pistol for conceal carry. It was the first pistol and my first carry pistol when I started carrying when I was 19 and carried that for about 3 years. l never had a single problem, training is the key.


No, its really not


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> No, its really not


What makes it a bad beginner? Since the pistol is meant for self defense and not for target shooting past 5-7 yards. Also Ruger has updated those triggers. The old ones did have a long trigger pull and when it broke it felt mushy but Ruger has fixed it and the new ones have or seems about half the trigger travel and a more crisp break to it.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> What makes it a bad beginner? Since the pistol is meant for self defense and not for target shooting past 5-7 yards.


Size, trigger, recoil, it doesn't what range you think its made for accuracy matters. The LCP was not made for sighted shooting and most beginners know nothing of instinctive shooting. The sights on an LCP are virtually useless, the trigger is horrible and trigger control is one of the foundations of accuracy. You cannot learn trigger control on an LCP. Another foundation of accuracy is proper grip, no one can get a proper grip on an LCP unless they have the world's tiniest hands. I could go on and on but you get the point.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

$40 and you can have a great trigger in an LCP. Good get off me gun.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> Size, trigger, recoil, it doesn't what range you think its made for accuracy matters. The LCP was not made for sighted shooting and most beginners know nothing of instinctive shooting. The sights on an LCP are virtually useless, the trigger is horrible and trigger control is one of the foundations of accuracy. You cannot learn trigger control on an LCP. Another foundation of accuracy is proper grip, no one can get a proper grip on an LCP unless they have the world's tiniest hands. I could go on and on but you get the point.


I get your point Ruger has also updated those triggers now. The new LCPs actually have a short trigger travel with a nice crisp break. If the user kept it in the range of what it was intended for I see no problem.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I get your point Ruger has also updated those triggers now. The new LCPs actually have a short trigger travel with a nice crisp break. If the user kept it in the range of what it was intended for I see no problem.


The OP is was looking for a first CCW.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> The OP is was looking for a first CCW.


I know which it was my first CCW and I never shot pistols before that. I never had a problem.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I know which it was my first CCW and I never shot pistols before that. I never had a problem.


Ok..... Don't take this the wrong way. I am not trying to insult you, but you don't even know what you don't know. You never had a problem compared to what? I am not trying to be a dick but exactly what standard are you measuring yourself against? Are you using a shot timer, drawing from concealment and still getting accuracy? Sighted or threat- focused shooting?


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> Ok..... Don't take this the wrong way. I am not trying to insult you, but you don't even know what you don't know. You never had a problem compared to what? I am not trying to be a dick but exactly what standard are you measuring yourself against? Are you using a shot timer, drawing from concealment and still getting accuracy? Sighted or threat- focused shooting?


I know you’re not. I have never had a problem with drawing the pistol, getting a proper grip, firing the pistol, and putting rounds in the intended target I was shooting at. I have shot this pistol from shot timers (generally shot timer apps). Yes when I had this pistol I would draw from concealment and shoot it and yes I was still getting accuracy for exactly what it was meant for. Within 10 yards all shots would be in torso size chest from belly button to about where the top of the breast plate is. I have shot this sighted before but I could generally keep all rounds in a paper plate at 10 yards if I was just shooting. I have also done threat focused where we posted three targets up of different colors and he would call the color of the threat and I would have to draw from concealment. Now I haven’t had the funding to do a lot of shooting so the majority of the time I will practice my draw with a shot timer at home and every time before I go out with my pistol I draw a few times just to keep muscle memory up.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I know you’re not. I have never had a problem with drawing the pistol, getting a proper grip, firing the pistol, and putting rounds in the intended target I was shooting at. I have shot this pistol from shot timers (generally shot timer apps). Yes when I had this pistol I would draw from concealment and shoot it and yes I was still getting accuracy for exactly what it was meant for. Within 10 yards all shots would be in torso size chest from belly button to about where the top of the breast plate is. I have shot this sighted before but I could generally keep all rounds in a paper plate at 10 yards if I was just shooting. I have also done threat focused where we posted three targets up of different colors and he would call the color of the threat and I would have to draw from concealment. Now I haven’t had the funding to do a lot of shooting so the majority of the time I will practice my draw with a shot timer at home and every time before I go out with my pistol I draw a few times just to keep muscle memory up.


Excellent practice regime. Most people never bother. Save some $$ and take a class or two with a good instructor. You will be amazed at how much better you can get with some professional training. One of my instructors is a guy who is over 60. He does dozens of practice draw nightly. His times are <1 second. He has quite a few instructional videos on YouTube. Search Robin Brown quick kill. You will pick up some great info.

My opinion, LCP is a "bad breath distance gun" or a "get off me gun".
All my range time and training with it is done at under 10 feet and my goal is all shots in a white paper plate from concealment usually firing multiple rounds because of the caliber.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> Excellent practice regime. Most people never bother. Save some $$ and take a class or two with a good instructor. You will be amazed at how much better you can get with some professional training. One of my instructors is a guy who is over 60. He does dozens of practice draw nightly. His times are <1 second. He has quite a few instructional videos on YouTube. Search Robin Brown quick kill. You will pick up some great info.
> 
> My opinion, LCP is a "bad breath distance gun" or a "get off me gun".
> All my range time and training with it is done at under 10 feet and my goal is all shots in a white paper plate from concealment usually firing multiple rounds because of the caliber.


That is exactly what it is meant for. I loved it, during the summer I would carry it in my pocket and honestly I don't know why I got rid of it. I love my shield too. My draw times from my pocket were about 1 1/2-2 1/2 seconds depending on clothing. Like gym shorts it would be close to the 2 1/2. I have been wanting to take a class where it has you moving for cover etc. But now I carry a shield appendix and my draw times have consistently in the 1 1/2 seconds. Not as fast as I want but practice makes perfect. And thanks for the youtube video I will have to look it up at the house since work likes to block a lot of firearm videos.


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## plt228 (Mar 13, 2014)

I second what everyone else says about taking a class. It sounds like it would be a big plus for you. That may help you decide what you want to carry. I’m 6’1”, 175 lbs. and can carry a full-size M&P 9mm with no problems but I also have a quality belt and holster. Both of those are keys to being able to be comfortable while carrying. I use a comptac ctac holster with a wilderness tactical polymer lined frequent flyer belt. I also have a Keltec 32 for a pocket pistol; it rides in a DeSantis pocket holster. 
When you start carrying you’ll feel like everyone can see that you are carrying when the truth is only other gun people will notice if you are concealing properly. I always wore an undershirt and untucked polo when I started. Now depending on the fit of the shirt and color/pattern I will carry the M&P with a pair of cargo shorts and t-shirt. If I’m in work clothes (khakis and polo) I carry the Keltec. Most people are too busy talking to someone or playing on their phones to care about what you are wearing or doing. 
I tried to find my wife a snub nose but she didn’t have the hand strength to work the hammer or trigger. She liked the fit and feel of the Keltec 32. So let her try a bunch to see what feels right to her.


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## BBRASH (Nov 21, 2007)

The best CCW pistol for you is one you are proficient and confident with. The most valuable but often overlooked things are training and range time. A person with little training that is carrying and potentially operating a pistol is often more dangerous than the "bad guy". As for the weapon options, there are several things to consider. The clothes you normally wear, the way you intend to carry(pocket, IWB, ankle) and your budget are 3 important ones. If you are only going to have one pistol I would suggest a single stack of some type. Try several to you find "the one". You also mentioned your wife, I would almost always recommend a hammerless revolver for a lady. A semi auto pistol usually requires thinking and operating controls to fire. A revolver is simply point and shoot, no thinking just reacting. There are several 38's and a few 380 revolvers that are great carry guns. Again, the biggest thing is comfort and training.


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## advobwhite (Nov 22, 2012)

I was thinking full size m&p but mikes has the shield for 370 I believe so will be going up there with her on Saturday and if she is good with it then we are putting them on layaway if still on sale. Unfortunately I can't carry at work. It is against policy if not a federal a offense to even have in the car in the parking lot in the line of work I do so it will be an edc carried after work or weekend. I have decided after the input here just to take the ccw class with my wife and we will drill several nights a week unloaded with a range day every couple weeks.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

BBRASH said:


> , I would almost always recommend a hammerless revolver for a lady. A semi auto pistol usually requires thinking and operating controls to fire. A revolver is simply point and shoot, no thinking just reacting.



Lmao.....sexist much.


Thinking and controls? What semi are you shooting and what women are you shooting with....lol XDs, Glocks, Sigs, MPs and so on are point and pull just like a wheel gun. The fact that you recommend anything for a person without discussing. Fitment, trigger length, personal choice and comfort say a lot. I have taken lots and lots of advanced handgun training with a lot of women and only one ever used a revo. Her husband said was "best" for her and went and bought it because he was a man and he knew best. She hated it, borrowed the instructors MP9 and finished the two day class.

There is only one way to recommend a pistol for someone. Let them, feel, fondle, fit and fire as many as they can. Teach them the difference, Ensure the gun physically fits their hand and let them make an educated decision about what works in their hand. Woman or man


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## BBRASH (Nov 21, 2007)

Mirage, LMAO isn't something I would do on this topic. If you read the first sentence of my reply it would almost seem we have similar thoughts. As for my opinion on women and wheel guns, it's just that, my opinion. Although it does come with real world experience and training. Sorry if that makes me sexist. My wife and stepdaughter can shoot round for round with most men with any pistol but my wife carries a revolver. Many women that carry do so in a purse. A hammerless revolver will fire every time while in a purse. The same can not be said for a semiauto. Opinions vary on carry weapons and weapons in general. Doesn't mean they are right or wrong. I Pray that others never have to test these opinions. My apologies for ruffling your feathers.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

advobwhite said:


> I was thinking full size m&p but mikes has the shield for 370 I believe so will be going up there with her on Saturday and if she is good with it then we are putting them on layaway if still on sale. Unfortunately I can't carry at work. It is against policy if not a federal a offense to even have in the car in the parking lot in the line of work I do so it will be an edc carried after work or weekend. I have decided after the input here just to take the ccw class with my wife and we will drill several nights a week unloaded with a range day every couple weeks.


On a government installation? Or is it a private employer?


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## advobwhite (Nov 22, 2012)

Private employer, one of the largest in the area and expanding rapidly and don't want to risk my career. Even with that said the added security of myself and my wife having an EDC when out and about outside of work will be nice. I worry every time I can't reach her and she is out after dark w/ our son who is 15 months old.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

advobwhite said:


> Private employer, one of the largest in the area and expanding rapidly and don't want to risk my career. Even with that said the added security of myself and my wife having an EDC when out and about outside of work will be nice. I worry every time I can't reach her and she is out after dark w/ our son who is 15 months old.


We probably work at the same place and if it is in west part of Florida near the Alabama line then I bet it is especially since you said it is growing really fast. Their policy does not over ride Florida state law, as long as you lock your door to your vehicle you can have the gun sitting wide open inside your locked vehicle (if you wanted to) and the employer can not legally do anything. I keep this section of the Florida law in my glove box of my truck.

(4) PROHIBITED ACTS.—No public or private employer may violate the constitutional rights of any customer, employee, or invitee as provided in paragraphs (a)-(e):
(a) No public or private employer may prohibit any customer, employee, or invitee from possessing any legally owned firearm when such firearm is lawfully possessed and locked inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot and when the customer, employee, or invitee is lawfully in such area.
(b) No public or private employer may violate the privacy rights of a customer, employee, or invitee by verbal or written inquiry regarding the presence of a firearm inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot or by an actual search of a private motor vehicle in a parking lot to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle. Further, no public or private employer may take any action against a customer, employee, or invitee based upon verbal or written statements of any party concerning possession of a firearm stored inside a private motor vehicle in a parking lot for lawful purposes. A search of a private motor vehicle in the parking lot of a public or private employer to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle may only be conducted by on-duty law enforcement personnel, based upon due process and must comply with constitutional protections.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.251.html


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

BBRASH said:


> Mirage, LMAO isn't something I would do on this topic. If you read the first sentence of my reply it would almost seem we have similar thoughts. As for my opinion on women and wheel guns, it's just that, my opinion. Although it does come with real world experience and training. Sorry if that makes me sexist. My wife and stepdaughter can shoot round for round with most men with any pistol but my wife carries a revolver. Many women that carry do so in a purse. A hammerless revolver will fire every time while in a purse. The same can not be said for a semiauto. Opinions vary on carry weapons and weapons in general. Doesn't mean they are right or wrong. I Pray that others never have to test these opinions. My apologies for ruffling your feathers.


Your "women should shoot revolvers because semis require thinking". Was pretty funny. I hope all women who are carrying in their purses ate doing so in a holster that protects the trigger. More than one purse carry with no holster has resulted in a ND and someone getting shot standing next to them in line some where.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> We probably work at the same place and if it is in west part of Florida near the Alabama line then I bet it is especially since you said it is growing really fast. Their policy does not over ride Florida state law, as long as you lock your door to your vehicle you can have the gun sitting wide open inside your locked vehicle (if you wanted to) and the employer can not legally do anything. I keep this section of the Florida law in my glove box of my truck.
> 
> (4) PROHIBITED ACTS.—No public or private employer may violate the constitutional rights of any customer, employee, or invitee as provided in paragraphs (a)-(e):
> (a) No public or private employer may prohibit any customer, employee, or invitee from possessing any legally owned firearm when such firearm is lawfully possessed and locked inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot and when the customer, employee, or invitee is lawfully in such area.
> ...


Keep in mind Brandon Florida is a "right to work" state and though you cannot be fired for the weapon, they can fire you the day they see it on almost ridiculous pretense and in 99% of cases there is no recourse for you. In this case personally would follow these wise words, concealed is concealed and never tell a soul. Not even your best shooting buddy that you carry it to work.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> Keep in mind Brandon Florida is a "right to work" state and though you cannot be fired for the weapon, they can fire you the day they see it on almost ridiculous pretense and in 99% of cases there is no recourse for you. In this case personally would follow these wise words, concealed is concealed and never tell a soul. Not even your best shooting buddy that you carry it to work.


I know I was just providing an example so he could see and interpretation of the law.


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## mirage2521 (Apr 22, 2009)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I know I was just providing an example so he could see and interpretation of the law.


I gotcha. Did you know Disney got themselves exempted from that law so their employees can't use it. Their attorneys drove to Tally and lobbied through committee votes and floor votes to get Disney excepted. They finally used the fact that they store and use explosives (fireworks) as an excuse to exempt themselves. Just a bit of trivia for you.


790.251.7e


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

mirage2521 said:


> I gotcha. Did you know Disney got themselves exempted from that law so their employees can't use it. Their attorneys drove to Tally and lobbied through committee votes and floor votes to get Disney excepted. They finally used the fact that they store and use explosives (fireworks) as an excuse to exempt themselves. Just a bit of trivia for you.
> 
> 
> 790.251.7e


Yeah I heard about that all because of fireworks..... Robert Iger is a extreme liberal/progressive and frankly Disney shows it and I try not to conduct any business with them as much as possible.


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