# Lionfish harvest from natural bottom 2/25



## WhackUmStackUm

We shot 96 lionfish out in the Timber Holes region on Tuesday 2/25. We hit three spots and did not get 100% of them on any of the spots due to the depth (115').


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## SHunter

Wow Whackum! Seeing this catch makes you realize why it is a very bad idea to introduce an exotic species to the wild. They have to be outcompeting some of the local fish stocks and likely other species.


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## WhackUmStackUm

SHunter said:


> Wow Whackum! Seeing this catch makes you realize why it is a very bad idea to introduce an exotic species to the wild. They have to be outcompeting some of the local fish stocks and likely other species.


On many artificial reefs lionfish are the most abundant species we see as we swim up to the spot.

The good news is that once the lionfish are removed from a site, it seems to take a while for the site to become reinfested.


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## Kenton

How many times have you guys poked yourselves? That is so much good meat but i would think cleaning has to be a surgical feat. Thanks for doing what you are doing though. Keep it up!


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## snake 166

How far do they venture off the reef? Reinfestation rate is likely dependent population in surrounding structure. Would be helpful to know how they find reefs and what determines whether they stick or move on.


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## badonskybuccaneers

My only thing is how long will divers be interested in targeting these things? How can we promote this "sport" to keep it going?
Thanks for sharing the results of your trip. Keep up the good work!


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## WhackUmStackUm

Kenton said:


> How many times have you guys poked yourselves? That is so much good meat but i would think cleaning has to be a surgical feat. Thanks for doing what you are doing though. Keep it up!


I have never been stung cleaning lionfish and I clean them with bare hands. I have been stung 11 times while diving (so far).


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## WhackUmStackUm

snake 166 said:


> How far do they venture off the reef? Reinfestation rate is likely dependent population in surrounding structure. Would be helpful to know how they find reefs and what determines whether they stick or move on.


We hope to organize local research projects to answer some of these questions. Some of the research out there is either wrong or does not apply to lionfish in our area for some reason.


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## Redtracker

Whackum.....we need a few more good MEN like you.....thanks for your efforts


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## johnboatjosh

The amount of these things that you guys are bringing in from each trip is alarming. I hope people are beginning to realize what a problem this is. Have anyone in the Panhandle area started an organization that accept donations to go towards funding trips to clean reefs?


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## no woryz

johnboatjosh said:


> The amount of these things that you guys are bringing in from each trip is alarming. I hope people are beginning to realize what a problem this is. Have anyone in the Panhandle area started an organization that accept donations to go towards funding trips to clean reefs?


Yes they are a problem, anybody that doesn't see that has their head in the sand... we hope the FWC will organize a procedure/policy to address the lionfish on public reefs ...


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## ghost95

Is it just me or is the average size of these fish getting bigger? I seem to remember that a couple years ago the fish all seemed like the little ones you could buy in aquarium shops.


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## Jason

I know folks say they are good to eat, but are they worth the effort? I think it would be easier to grind em up and use them as chum????


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## wackydaddy

Whackum you mentioned you clean them, with such a large mess of fish do you just clean and freeze to eat them all, do you normally donate or do you end up tossing a bunch?

Are they good eating? How long does it take to clean each one? When I get dive certified and comfortable enough to start targeting lion fish I'd really enjoy going out once in awhile purely to target these guys.


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## wackydaddy

johnboatjosh said:


> Have anyone in the Panhandle area started an organization that accept donations to go towards funding trips to clean reefs?


I'd be interested in being a part of an organization established to support this lion fish eradication. I know how to get not for profit incorporated and a EIN from the IRS. I wouldn't mind heading it if I had a group of partners interested in making it a success. Would need a web developer and treasurer at minimum but volunteers would be the bulk of the reason for the success. (Maybe I should start a new thread with this suggestion?)


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## hjorgan

The organization could accept funds to offer "bounty" money for lionfish. $1 per lionfish. Wack, would $96 have helped offset some of your trip cost?
Part II, what part of the rascals could you clip or cut to prove harvest and lionfishacide, and still maintain the meat?


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## Magic Mike

I stabbed a couple down in the keys with my tickle stick (hunting lobster). Cleaned them up and ate them... they were delicious. Highly recommend trying them.

I cut the barbs with some scissors and cleaned it like a reg fish. Had red grouper that night as well... it was every bit as good as the grouper to me


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## WW2

I am not sure how true this is..... so, don't sue me... BUT, I saw something a while back that said if they go on ice it deadens the toxin.


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## no woryz

WW2 said:


> I am not sure how true this is..... so, don't sue me... BUT, I saw something a while back that said if they go on ice it deadens the toxin.


yes, we put fish in a slurry and it does neutralize the toxin...


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## Firefishvideo

no woryz said:


> yes, we put fish in a slurry and it does neutralize the toxin...


Sorry Clint...you know I love to argue...
Yes we Slurry them.....but its to quickly lower their temp....not to neutralize the venom. 
I think putting them in the ice helps.....but only because it helps abraid the skin covering the spines - this allows the venom to be washed away.
I have been poked by an un-damaged spine that had been frozen for a few days and then thawed. Let me tell you - it still had some sting to it.

Heat is the only known enemy of this venom.
Just don't get stuck.....but if you do - treat it with heat.


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## WhackUmStackUm

johnboatjosh said:


> ...Have anyone in the Panhandle area started an organization that accept donations to go towards funding trips to clean reefs?


A not-for-profit to help fund lionfish projects is being put together. Stay tuned for updates.


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## WhackUmStackUm

no woryz said:


> ...we hope the FWC will organize a procedure/policy to address the lionfish on public reefs ...


I met with the FWC lionfish folks this week. Currently there are no funds dedicated for lionfish projects. They are working to get some short-term funding now.


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## WhackUmStackUm

ghost95 said:


> Is it just me or is the average size of these fish getting bigger? I seem to remember that a couple years ago the fish all seemed like the little ones you could buy in aquarium shops.


Indeed they are getting bigger. The average sized lionfish is much bigger now than just a year ago.


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## WhackUmStackUm

Jason said:


> I know folks say they are good to eat, but are they worth the effort? I think it would be easier to grind em up and use them as chum????


Most of the ones I spear are given away to lionfish researchers. They look at stomach contents, age, length, weight and gonads.


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## WhackUmStackUm

wackydaddy said:


> Whackum you mentioned you clean them, with such a large mess of fish do you just clean and freeze to eat them all, do you normally donate or do you end up tossing a bunch?


I eat and give away a few but most currently go to researchers.



wackydaddy said:


> Are they good eating? How long does it take to clean each one? When I get dive certified and comfortable enough to start targeting lion fish I'd really enjoy going out once in awhile purely to target these guys.


They are excellent to eat, much like flounder in texture and taste. It takes me a couple of minutes to clean one.

Let me know when you are ready to shoot some or even come along as a lionfish spotter.


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## WhackUmStackUm

wackydaddy said:


> I'd be interested in being a part of an organization established to support this lion fish eradication. I know how to get not for profit incorporated and a EIN from the IRS. I wouldn't mind heading it if I had a group of partners interested in making it a success. Would need a web developer and treasurer at minimum but volunteers would be the bulk of the reason for the success. (Maybe I should start a new thread with this suggestion?)


We are fairly well along in starting the non-profit. We could use your help once the paperwork is in place. Stay tuned for updates.


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## WhackUmStackUm

hjorgan said:


> The organization could accept funds to offer "bounty" money for lionfish. $1 per lionfish. Wack, would $96 have helped offset some of your trip cost?


Anything would help the folks out there hunting lionfish on a regular basis.

A bounty program is one of the pilot projects we are considering. We need to get some of these project started while the State and Federal folks figure out how they want to approach the lionfish threat.



hjorgan said:


> Part II, what part of the rascals could you clip or cut to prove harvest and lionfishacide, and still maintain the meat?


A bounty program is one of the pilot projects we are considering. We need to get some of these project started while the State and Federal folks figure out how they want to approach the lionfish threat. I am afraid of what our reefs and fisheries will look like if we wait on government help.


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## WhackUmStackUm

WW2 said:


> I am not sure how true this is..... so, don't sue me... BUT, I saw something a while back that said if they go on ice it deadens the toxin.


I apply heat as soon as I can. Ideally I use the hottest water I can stand.


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## JoinRUSS

*Lionfish Hunt Donations*

Check out www.joinruss.org

We are a new organization focused on the Pensacola area (to start with) and we will be working with the community to provide stipends to divers to help with the lionfish hunting. 

We will be taking donations from others to be able to accomplish this either by straight donation, fundraisers, apparel purchases and our SAVE-A-REEF program. 

We are having our Launch Party and Inaugural Fundraiser on March 22, 2014 at Seville Quarter from 4pm - 8pm. Entertainment, Raffle, Silent Auction, Apparel, and SAVE-A-REEF sponsorships available (they are also available on our website)

We are also accepting donations from businesses or individuals for our raffle and silent auction.

[email protected]


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## WhackUmStackUm

JoinRUSS said:


> Check out www.joinruss.org
> 
> We are a new organization focused on the Pensacola area (to start with) and we will be working with the community to provide stipends to divers to help with the lionfish hunting.
> 
> We will be taking donations from others to be able to accomplish this either by straight donation, fundraisers, apparel purchases and our SAVE-A-REEF program.
> 
> We are having our Launch Party and Inaugural Fundraiser on March 22, 2014 at Seville Quarter from 4pm - 8pm. Entertainment, Raffle, Silent Auction, Apparel, and SAVE-A-REEF sponsorships available (they are also available on our website)
> 
> We are also accepting donations from businesses or individuals for our raffle and silent auction.
> 
> [email protected]


Is JoinRUSS a non-profit (501 c.3), and are donations tax deductable?


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## JoinRUSS

WhackUmStackUm said:


> Is JoinRUSS a non-profit (501 c.3), and are donations tax deductable?


Actually JoinRUSS is not the name of our corporation but only the website address and my personal user name for the forum.

The name of the organization is Recreational Underwater Sports Society, Inc. Registered as a Non-Profit Florida Corporation, complete with the Non-Profit Solicitation of Donation license required by the state to accept donations of any sort from anyone in the State of Florida, whether or not a tax-exempt entity. The required mandate disclaimer is on the footer of our website page at www.joinruss.org.

We are pending 501(c)3 status at the moment and do not anticipate not obtaining that status. All donations retroactive to the date of incorporation are considered tax deductible no matter when we receive the status as long as it is achieved within 27 months of date of incorporation according to IRS.

We are waiting for determination letter (for the IRS to send us the letter). 

There should be no issues or concerns as the way our organization is set up: no conflicting interest members, such as charter captains, dive shop owners, or other professional in the dive world (DM, Instructors) allowed on the board per the bylaws and we are an educational organization. We meet 100% the full requirements of a 501(c)3 organization.

This comes directly from the IRS:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4220.pdf

While Your Application is Pending

While an organization’s Form 1023 is waiting for processing 
by the IRS, the organization may operate as a tax-exempt 
organization.


Please feel free to direct any other questions regarding our organization and we will be more than happy to answer them! We look forward to being a contributor in many ways in the Pensacola area. We have several programs that will be announced throughout the year.


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## JoinRUSS




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## navkingfisher

I am new to diving, fished for half a century; after you stick them how do you secure them...how do you bag them to avoid gettin stuck?


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## Firefishvideo

navkingfisher said:


> I am new to diving, fished for half a century; after you stick them how do you secure them...how do you bag them to avoid gettin stuck?


Here is a video I shot a couple weeks ago. It shows a good population of lionfish on a reef module....and divers spearing and bagging them.:thumbsup:


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## stocke2

they're like cockroaches


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## JoinRUSS

You can do it safely, but there is always a chance to get stuck by them. You do have to be very careful!

I know that Mark Saltz, an instructor out of Florida Dive Pros has a PADI Specialty Class for Lionfish hunting and I can't remember if you do 2 or 4 dives in order to get the card. He has donated a class for the raffle. You can touch base with Dive Pros to find out more info about the course.

Obviously, no matter what you do, you need to be careful when spearing and handling them. A class is great for you to learn how to do it safely, but is no guarantee you will never be stuck. Diligence in being safe is the best way to do this.

Great Video Firefish!


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## Ceffalo

*Incredible..*

You wonder how many have NO harvest pressure whatsover!!


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## joshawamartin

Does anybody know of any shallow reefs near Pensacola/Gulf Shores area that could be reached by snorkelers? I would like to get in on the action.


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## JoinRUSS

joshawamartin said:


> Does anybody know of any shallow reefs near Pensacola/Gulf Shores area that could be reached by snorkelers? I would like to get in on the action.



I personally don't know of any snorkeling reefs that are occupied by the lionfish, but I believe there has been a sighting of one juvie on Ft. Pickens back in December. They may be there moreso this year? 

There might be others that do more shore diving that could give you more information regarding that!

Even if you don't dive, you can be part of the solution!! Try to come to our event at Seville Quarter on March 22, 4pm-8pm and talk with us personally about how we are getting non-divers involved in the fight against these guys!!!


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## WhackUmStackUm

Please don't post your fund raising announcements on my threads.


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## JoinRUSS

WhackUmStackUm said:


> Please don't post your fund raising announcements on my threads.


 happen a
No problem. Did not know who "WhackumStackum" was and had to ask someone a few days ago to find out. My apologies.


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## Realtor

Wackum, is JoinRUSS doing close to the same thing as you are trying to do fighting the Lionfish? Are you putting together a non profit as well?
I am trying to figure out what's going on and how I might be able to get involved somehow.....


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## grey ghost

wow!, what mess of meat!! U Da Man!! Great Job!


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## WhackUmStackUm

Realtor said:


> Wackum, is JoinRUSS doing close to the same thing as you are trying to do fighting the Lionfish? Are you putting together a non profit as well?
> I am trying to figure out what's going on and how I might be able to get involved somehow.....


There are several local organizations tackling the lionfish problem, and many non-local organizations.

The two local organizations that I know of are:

Gulf Coast Lionfish Coalition (http://www.gulfcoastlionfish.com/)
RUSS (http://www.joinruss.org/)
I am not officially a member of either organization, however I have provided advice to GCLC when asked and plan to attend their lionfish tournament in May. 

It is my understanding that both of these organization are active in educating folks on the lionfish threat and promoting lionfish collection and reporting.

My primary lionfish interest areas are:

Lionfish tracking & research (http://lionfishmap.org)
The development of a large-scale commercial collection program
R&D related to developing improved capture devices and techniques
It is my hope that my efforts will support organizations such as GCLC and RUSS.

I encourage everyone to get involved in some way. Our local organizations are a good place to start. There is a lot to do and plenty of work to go around.

*CAUTION:* There are a few folks out there with the goal of stirring up trouble, creating drama, and promoting conflict among local lionfish efforts. This is counterproductive to our common goal of controlling the lionfish population. I encourage you to avoid these troublemakers wherever you find them.

Whackum


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## JoinRUSS

I have seen Lionfishmap.org and it really is a great application/software that you have designed. I have been very impressed by what you have done. Those of you reading, if you have not looked at the Lionfishmap.org, please take a moment to do so. Whackum has really done a phenomenal job and is to be commended for the work he has done with this.

I was unaware that you wanted to work with RUSS (this truly is the first I have heard of that), as no one from Lionfishmap.org has ever contacted us to see how the two organizations could work together and benefit both the research and the recreational divers. I was also told, and under the impression you were working closely with GCLC. That may have been a wrong assumption of mine, and if so, I apologize, but based on correspondence I have, and that is what I have been led to believe. Let us know at RUSS how you think the two organizations could potentially be mutually beneficial as we would be more than open to that. You can contact us at [email protected]. I would be more than happy to meet with you over coffee for you to explain fully how it works and who the data benefits directly and see how we can work it into our program, as we are not a research entity, but an educational entity focused on the non-diver and community involvement. I am very interested in the posts about how the data that is entered by divers is validated, as our spreadsheet is based on trusting the person(s) submitting the information.


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## WhackUmStackUm

JoinRUSS said:


> I was unaware that you wanted to work with RUSS...


Since your post was directed to me, and may not be of general interest, feel free to send me a PM next time.


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## WhackUmStackUm

JoinRUSS said:


> I am very interested in the posts about how the data that is entered by divers is validated...


That is a very good question.

The validation sub-system being developed for LionfishMap.org is a bit of artificial intelligence code (a hobby of mine) which compares a diver's reports with the reports of others on the same sites. Over time divers are automatically ranked based on the how well their reports compare to others, especially reports of other high-ranking/trusted divers. A confidence value is then assigned to the divers reports going forward. The system will automatically track each diver's reports and modify their confidence score as they become better or worse at reporting lionfish. This score will be displayed alongside of each lionfish sighting report for hunters to see when looking for sites to visit.

This is probably more than you wanted to know, but there you have it. This is an example of the type of research and development that I hope will assist local lionfish organizations wherever they may be.

Whackum


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## JoinRUSS

WhackUmStackUm said:


> That is a very good question.
> 
> The validation sub-system being developed for LionfishMap.org is a bit of artificial intelligence code (a hobby of mine) which compares a diver's reports with the reports of others on the same sites. Over time divers are automatically ranked based on the how well their reports compare to others, especially reports of other high-ranking/trusted divers. A confidence value is then assigned to the divers reports going forward. The system will automatically track each diver's reports and modify their confidence score as they become better or worse at reporting lionfish. This score will be displayed alongside of each lionfish sighting report for hunters to see when looking for sites to visit.
> 
> This is probably more than you wanted to know, but there you have it. This is an example of the type of research and development that I hope will assist local lionfish organizations wherever they may be.
> 
> Whackum



Actually, not more than what I wanted to know  That is a great explanation and exactly what I wanted to know! Glad you could create such an algorithm that can be tracked and consistently improved upon for consistency and reliability, as well as credibility. That is what is most important to our organization in who we look to work alongside!!! 

Great Job Whackum!! I look forward to learning more in the future!


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