# RED SNAPPER REEF FISH STAMP



## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

*I know everyone is upset due to the recent outcome of the state ruling, but we must keep working and thankyou all for the support.



Over 3 years ago we went to FFWC and asked them to help us do a few things positive and in advance to benefit the fishery and the science of the fishery some of you may recall.



Create a marine preserve to give science a controlled study environment and a preserve were fish could become large and fecundant (egg bearing )



The other was to create a Red Snapper Reef Fish Stamp to allow fisheries management to be more precise and have accountability.

This would do a few things.



First and most important it would allow us to know exactly how many people are using the resource.



It would be a strong funding source for :



Habitat 60%

Research 20%

Education for Reef Fish10%

Enforcement 10%



The reason I am going to aggressively get back to this is for the recreational fisherman every other fishery is going to have accountability in their sector , commercial fisherman already have it , the charter industry is almost in place with a couple different plans. 



So trust me when I tell you this if you dont have a mechanism to prove you did or did not Red Snapper fish or the guy in the canoe who has a salt water fishing license who gets counted in the process 

you aren't going to like your piece of the pie .



Something that caught my attention yesterday was the fact that FFWC is trying to get all shore based fisherman and pier fisherman to get salt water license's so they will also be in the mix for catching snapper . Why you ask ; because there is no waqy to prove they didn't.



I mean this in the nicest way possible you have to start looking out for YOUR fishery or you are going to lose it.

I am going to do what I can even though I am going to considered charter I happen to be out numbered here at the house by 4 recreational fisherman 3 in which who may not want to be a charter boat captains.



So what I'm asking is for more help . We were told yesterday that this stamp would have to be approved by legislature , and that will be a tough road we will meet and discuss the particulars of the stamp and get a plan together after that we will need to get it as much attention as possible for as long as possible and thas going to mean that we ;



Write our congressman

Local officials

Media call ins

and word of mouth outside of this web-site, because as much as I would like to think everyone who fishes is on here its not even close.



So please if you know anyone in media go ahead and start making contact with them so when we get a plan together it will be a little easier to get the attention w are going to need.*


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## amberj (Oct 1, 2007)

Just curious, if this did pass how would we go about getting a stamp, would it be something like a licence you would have to renue everyyear, or would this be a one time fee kinda thing?? Also how much tenatively are we projecting in the price of this stamp?? If it will help the fishery I am all for it, just want to know all the details.


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## wirebiter (Jun 4, 2008)

Amberj,

I would hope it would be a yearly, or some other length of time renewal. After all if it was a lifetime stamp then a person would buy it and say they never intended to fish snapper again. After a few years with many people doing this we would be in the same boat with people not fishing snapper being counted, and the endangered red snapper being cut again due to bad data and statistical techniques. I like you am all for a stamp if it gives me more fishing opportunities, even if it cost a few extra bucks. After all you have to renew your license anyways unless you have a lifetime one.


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm all for buying a stamp.

I'd even go as far as notifying the NMFS the day before my trip and fill out a trip ticket with the landings on it.

Instead if each individual fishermanneeding a stamp, I would prefer to see it done per individual boat like the HMS species permit. As a captain of a recreational boat, I would have no problem keeping records of all fish caught and send in a trip ticket after each trip.


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *amberj (2/6/2009)*Just curious, if this did pass how would we go about getting a stamp, would it be something like a licence you would have to renue everyyear, or would this be a one time fee kinda thing?? Also how much tenatively are we projecting in the price of this stamp?? If it will help the fishery I am all for it, just want to know all the details.




We projected 5.00 to 10.00 for the stamp and you would definitely renew it every year.



Please keep in mind that it will only effect people who are using the resource.



details to come


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

Good post Paul,

I agree with everything you said and actually started working in that direction this morning.

For everyone's info, Failure to enact anelimination of the Shoreline exemtion, will likely result in *every *offshore fisherman being required to obtain a *Federal Reef Permit* to fish offshore. IF that happens they could *force ALL Federal Rules on ALL recreational fisherman*.

Furthermore, it is important to understand, that shoreline fisherman are taking from the resource and giving "nothing" back in return. The money from our fishing licenses support what it is we like to do!


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## konz (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (2/6/2009)*Good post Paul,
> 
> I agree with everything you said and actually started working in that direction this morning.
> 
> ...


Well I would say that any shoreline fisherman that doesn't purchase a liscense is giving nothing back. This sounds like a good idea to me. Is there a "mold" letter that we can send in to the powers that be?


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (2/6/2009)*Good post Paul,
> 
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> 
> ...




Thats great Jeff, lets keep each other informed as possible and try and work together amongst counties .

I'll give you a shout and fill you in on some of the details.


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## amberj (Oct 1, 2007)

> *CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (2/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *amberj (2/6/2009)*Just curious, if this did pass how would we go about getting a stamp, would it be something like a licence you would have to renue everyyear, or would this be a one time fee kinda thing?? Also how much tenatively are we projecting in the price of this stamp?? If it will help the fishery I am all for it, just want to know all the details.
> ...


That all sounds great to me. Great post by the way!! I am all for helping the fishery.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

Istrongly support Paul's vision of the Snapper Stamp. It's not the state trying to take more money from us, it's about US trying to get the data needed to protect our fishing rights. 

The sad fact is that the "science" that Feds are using has been reduced to someone sitting in a lab somewhere running computer code that makes projections based on what someone did 10-20 years ago. There is not any hard data collection being done. 

Right now, thehundreds of thousands of fishermen that buy Florida fishing licenses yet never even see a Red Snapper are being counted as Snapper Fishermen in the state's and Fed's eyes. The Fed says these fishermen are catching too many fish, and we must close the season. Again, it's all BS, and they've admitted it, but they won't get off their ass and do anythingabout it. It's easier to just shut it down.

Unless we do something to show in certain terms how many Snapper Fishermen there are and how many snapper are ACTUALLY being caught we'll <U>never</U> see the abuse end.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

Why not go with a red snapper tagging system, just like other states have for deer. You go by the local tackle shop and for a small price you buy how many snapper tags you want. Maybe limit the number a guy can by so no one could buy them all up. When a red snapper is caught you place the non-re-usable tag on the fish and it stays there until you are checked or the fish is cleaned. When the season ends, say April 15th through October 31st, it would be important for anyone with left over tags to return them to the FWC so they would not be counted as caught fish. 

Simple to enforce, if you get caught in possession of a red snapper and no tag in it then you have a violation.

Simple to keep count of fish caught also, just as long as everyone gets their unused tags back in when season ends.


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

I should probably stay out of this since i disagree with a lot of ya'lls points and post, and forgive me JoeZ if the typing in this post isn't upto your standards......BUT......why not just model it after the migratory bird permits that the feds make us have? its free, you have to ask for it when you get your hunting license, and they ask you a lot of questions about how many birds you killed last year. It'll be kind of hard for the state or the feds to argue its points considering a variant of it is already used for hunting.



but i wouldn't mind changing the free to 5 bucks or so if the money goes back into the fishery


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

I'll also toss in that I'm all for shore fishermen being required to buy a license and help support the sport that they take from. I'll have to look back at my post, but I believe I brought this very subject up a few years ago



edit...ok maybe not years ago, but 6 months ago



http://orangebeachfishingforum.com/fishingforum/Topic157707-2-1.aspx?Highlight=license


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## Gone Fishin' Too (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm here to help Paul, let me know what I can do!!!!


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Outside9 (2/6/2009)*Why not go with a red snapper tagging system, just like other states have for deer. You go by the local tackle shop and for a small price you buy how many snapper tags you want. Maybe limit the number a guy can by so no one could buy them all up. When a red snapper is caught you place the non-re-usable tag on the fish and it stays there until you are checked or the fish is cleaned. When the season ends, say April 15th through October 31st, it would be important for anyone with left over tags to return them to the FWC so they would not be counted as caught fish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think the individual tags are an outstanding Idea but how do you delegate why one person can purchase more than the next person for now I think we need to establish how many are using the resource so recreationally you can get your piece of the pie. 



Right now its about accountability for the resource like I said before the other sectors are already doing it.

Its really up to ya'll.


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## bluffman2 (Nov 22, 2007)

> *CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (2/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Outside9 (2/6/2009)*Why not go with a red snapper tagging system, just like other states have for deer. You go by the local tackle shop and for a small price you buy how many snapper tags you want. Maybe limit the number a guy can by so no one could buy them all up. When a red snapper is caught you place the non-re-usable tag on the fish and it stays there until you are checked or the fish is cleaned. When the season ends, say April 15th through October 31st, it would be important for anyone with left over tags to return them to the FWC so they would not be counted as caught fish.
> ...


Paul i agree with you on the accountability of the resources, but if one person wants to buy 100 tags he could....he just couldnt be caught with more than the legal limit right???


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *biggamefishr (2/6/2009)*I should probably stay out of this since i disagree with a lot of ya'lls points and post, and forgive me JoeZ if the typing in this post isn't upto your standards......BUT......why not just model it after the migratory bird permits that the feds make us have? its free, you have to ask for it when you get your hunting license, and they ask you a lot of questions about how many birds you killed last year. It'll be kind of hard for the state or the feds to argue its points considering a variant of it is already used for hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> but i wouldn't mind changing the free to 5 bucks or so if the money goes back into the fishery




Please tell me what you disagree with and your suggestions maybe I am looking at it in the wrong way maybe your suggestions might help.



Let me say though the fee is something that would fund the expansion of more habitat in the county that the funds derived from to enhance that counties fishery more .Where ever there is more pressure from that area there would automatically be more habitat if our plan is selected.Probably closer Snook or Tarpon stamp even a HMS permit that we have to purchase for a fish that travels many bodies of water that gives them an indication to roughly how many people are fishing for them.


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *bluffman2 (2/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (2/6/2009)*
> ...




The issue with that is they allow us 500,000 tags for .25 cents or what ever the amount and lets say me and a few friends go buy the lions share and leave the rest of you with 5000 tags to split up between 2,500,000 people it just wouldn't be fair.


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

paul, i'm unaware of how the snook/tarpon stamps work. When you apply for one do they ask you about how many fish you caught or kept last year?



Theres a few things about the migratory bird permit I don't like. example, I didn't do any dove hunting the year before last, so this year when I got it and they asked me how many dove i killed the year before it went into the computer as zero. They didn't ask if that zero was because I didn't see any (the stocks are depleted) or because I just didn't hunt for them.



The snapper stamp needs to be more precise



Did you snapper fish last year? Y or N

(If you answered no, do not answer the following questions)

How many times did you snapper fish last year? ______

How many snapper did you catch last year? ______

How many snapper did you keep? ______

What was the average snapper length that you caught? 12" 15" 18" 21" 24"+

What was the average snapper length that you kept? 15" 17" 19" 21" 23"+

Do you expect to fish more or less this year than you did last year? More Less





Maybe the snapper stamp should be a small notebook (like the ones that some banks give you to keep track of your debit card purchases)....about the size of a credit card so it fits in a wallet. That way its handy and you can keep track of when you fished, how many shorts were caught, how many fish were kept. So that you can fill out your snapper stamp more accurately


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## kahala boy (Oct 1, 2007)

I am all for a stamp on the license like the HMS stamp. BUT......Will this lead to a "grouper" stamp, and "AJ" stamp etc.? I am also for shore fishermen getting a license. I have reservations about the pier tho. Would the price to fish the pier go down since they (the pier) won't have to buy a license? Buying a stamp like the HMS stamp doesnt mean that you caught some...Some people get the stamp because of where they fish and in case they catch something...


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

Josh,



All outstanding points. Mark need 2 fish last year started a data base program that took everything you said and a whole lot more including other fish species; migratory and reef species, sea condition, marine mammal interaction money spent on trip etc.



Its part of the stamp program I did put on here it would be a system that you and fisheries managers would only have access to , basically a voluntary trip log. 







Kahula 



I made the mistake and couldnt edit that after I posted it it would be a reef fish stamp that would cover all species, that was what I called it four years ago when I went to NMFS and FFWC



Sorry for the confusion.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

Keep in mind guys these are just ideas running through my head, I hunt more than I fish.

The problem with following thefederal migratory bird stamp is it on an honor system. How many guys who have been through what we have been through with these regulations would cheat on the numbers some (or a lot). Also if the numbers came in real low it would be easy for the FWC and NOAA to say we cheated even if we did not.

1 - Have an open red snapper season, April 15th - October 31st.

2 - Bag limit, hopefully 4 but maybe 2 per person.

3 - Color code the tags for each year.

4 - Sell as many as a fisherman wants but they still must abide by the bag limit.

*Make sure the tags can't be reused once closed. If you get caught with a red snapper and no tag shame on you.

*Allow 30 days after season to get the unused tags back in so they will not count against us.

*What better way to keep up with number of fish anyways.

*Heck, charters and commercialcould do it also and each user group could have their own color for that year.

*Then let's build some reefs*


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

http://www.ketchum.ca/pages/seafood/seafood6.htm

Go here and look down at the yellow one. This is similar to what the FWCC uses for their antlerless deer tags each year (different color for each year).


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree that the next step is going to have to implement a Red Snapper stamp. It least the stamp is going to create a more accurate count than what the Feds have. Example: I buy a seasonal stamp and I fish everyday June 1st to Sept 20 that's 112 days and at a limit of 2 Snapper a day for a total of 224 fish allowable for the season.Realistically I'm not going to get to fish 112 days of the season as a recreational fisherman so the count is going to be a whole lot higher than what I actually caught .But say that is how the stamp will be counted for my share and everyone else's. So now at least the state will be able to produce a more accurate count to the Feds and at least have documentation to take to the table. From what I'm understanding is that they don't have any hard proof to take to the table for arguing our point and that it's going to be up to the Floridians to get a plan in motion and get it to Tallahassee. A stamp is also going to be a more affordable and easier way to start off. Also make the stamp available online purchase like the saltwater license, hunting license, and turkey stamps etc., where you can have a stamp in just a matter of minutes. I have actually been in my boat and had to get online to purchase a saltwater license for one of our crew that forgot to get it the night before. They will issue a number online instantly and than mail license to you. Also have a stamp available for 3to 7 day for people who live out of town and want to go Snapper fishing on a private vessel for just a couple of days instead of having to purchase a seasonal stamp that would not show a 224 fish count but a 6 to 14 fish count. We got to start somewhere and to me the stamp is going to be the easiest way to get a plan in motion. The State already has a system going for stamps and to add a Snapper stamp would be a whole lot less cost to get it up and going. Also keep it affordable for anglers.</DIV>


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

Thats a great Idea for the out of state people thanks.



Any other suggestions would be great were trying to hammer this out.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

I support the stamp idea but I do NOT support any money from the stamp going to anything other than Reef Building and Monitoring. 

Here's why:
<LI>We have relied on research and look at the mess it has gotten us into. Researchers seem to have an agenda.Those of you that attended the FWC meeting yesterday heard the FWC <U>Staff </U>say that Red Snapper was overfished and that we had exceeded our quota. The FWCcommissioners said they didn't believe there was a snapper problem but they still followed the recommendation of the Staff based on their faulty "Research". I don't want to pay for anymore of that "RESEARCH".What we need is actual monitoring done locally. The FWC can collect the money andprovide grants for local reef monitoring either through the counties or non-profits. Monitoring is fact based not theory based. <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">_(Sorry if that is offensive to researchers but look at the mess we are in and you will understand.)_<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o></LI><LI>The FWC already spends 32% of every dollar they collect from the sale of our fishing licenses on Fishery Research and Management. This is written in Law Statute <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #115511; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">379.2201.The FWC spent $50,995,811 on RESEARCH last year. Yep, that's rightalmost $51 MILLION Dollars!!!!!!!! Do you realllllly think they need a bigger budget? Will more money in the researchers pocketsimprove our fishery? I don't think so!</LI><LI><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #115511; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #115511; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Law enforcement had a $98 Million Dollar Budget last year.They don't need more funding from a snapper stamp!</LI><LI><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #115511; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Artificial Reefs got a paultry $700 Thousand.- Stamps should build reefs not support law enforcement. They already have generous funding and besides, Reefs make fish...WE NEED REEF FUNDING!</LI>
<P align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #115511; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">*If we lobby for a Red Snapper Stamp, I would like to see the moneyraised allocated like this:*<UL><LI><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">75% of every dollar collected from the sale of Red Snapper Stamps to be dedicated *specifically for BUILDING* Artificial Reefs off Florida's Coastline. (Research is great but the State and Feds have spent multi-millions on research and look where we are today!)</LI><LI><DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">25%of every dollar collected from the sale of Red Snapper Stamps to be dedicated specifically forGrants to monitor Red Snapper populations in each region. Monitoring must include video as well as written reports and be posted on the FWC website for public viewing within 1 week of the monitoring survey.Our Stamp money will fund it so we should expect accountability andtimely public reviewable reports will insure that.</DIV></LI><LI><DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Every dollar collected in each county, would go to that countyto support their Reef Building and local monitoring efforts. In the event that a county that collects fishing license fees does notparticipate in Reef Building and Monitoring, the monies collected from those counties would besplit evenly between the nearest 2 countiesthat do have reef building and monitoring programs._(This ensures that money is equitably spent throughout the State. If we don't do this, expect pet projects ofrich counties to get most of YOUR stamp money.)_</DIV></LI>[/list]<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">_If we can all agree on the wording of a petition by February 19th, I'll gather signatures at the Florida Sportsman Show on the 21st and 22nd. _<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

There's a lot of great ideas coming in on this from all fronts.

I'd like to reminder y'all that there's a meeting at 3 p.m. this Sunday at MBTDivers (3920 Barrancas Ave, Pensacola.) to talk about the goods the bads and whatever it is that Josh (biggamefisher) talks about.

If you have an opinion or just want more details on the direction this is going, stop by, listen, contribute. The more input we have in it now, the less the state will have when we hand them a bullet-proof plan.


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## BBob (Sep 27, 2007)

I agree with Candy's point. But, the revenue generated by a "Snapper Stamp" needs to be allotted back to the counties/districts that generated them.

BBob


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

*From the looks of the report we need to help out the ODP  (office data portal) looks like they could use some money and some looking into in seeing what kind of data they have been collecting.

I honestly didn't know that they had a division just for data collection of all the meetings I have been to I dont recall ever hearing the ODP mentioned.









*


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## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

Paul,

Y'all did a great job at the meeting. The stamp concept was driven home and I believe the commissioners all support the concept. The GOMARS proposal includes a stamp concept, ie GOMARS (gulf of mexico angler reporting system). It was our effort at suggesting a softer word for stamp, license, etc. Our proposal and idea was to gain support from the feds and then work on the states because we knew that in FL and in other Gulf states, a stamp is a legislative thing.

Dedication of funds can be done under a state system but everyone needs to understand that the money charged for a stamp will have to be used to administer the stamp program so dedicating all funds to reefs or anything will not happen without some of the funding being dedicated to administration, enforcement, etc. Some of the money can be for reef enhancement, monitoring, research as 3 will be needed to adequately manage reefs. There will also have to be a plan for where reefs will be placed and fairly distributed. I also suspect that if the state considers a stamp for red snapper it would also have to apply to both coasts, east and west, since red snapper are caught in both places. I doubt the legislature would create a stamp for a specific area when red snapper are caught off both coasts.

We will work with you on this issue and I suggest we start moving now. Another issue which will have immediate impact is the shore based exemption. It has to go as if it does not then anglers fishing from FL will have to have two licesnes, the state lic plus the new federal registry. Eliminating the shore side exemption will also benefit FL as we would gain more Wallop-Breaux funds since we would be reporting more license sales. I have talked to Ted Trip with CCA, who will be a major player and whos support we will need and they will be discussing this at there annual board meeting in a couple weeks. Their priority is elimination of the state shoreside exemption and as long as a stamp effort does not interfere, they may be able to support a stamp. Their major concern will be the cost of the stamp and also to ensure that the funds are properly distributed. As I said before, don't expect all stamp funds from a red snapper stamp to provide 100% funding of reefs and nothing else as the system just will not work that way. It takes a majority of legislators and state senators to pass anything and there will be many committees to go through and any one can kill the bill.

Also, be aware when we go down this path of suggesting a stamp with a fee, we open the door to the elimination of the services tax we now enjoy plus thepossibility of a lic for each angler on a for hire vessel. Rest assured these issues will be discussed. Please let me know when you would like to talk and I am sure we can gain solid support here in Bay County.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

> *bob II (2/6/2009)*Paul,
> 
> Y'all did a great job at the meeting. The stamp concept was driven home and I believe the commissioners all support the concept. The GOMARS proposal includes a stamp concept, ie GOMARS (gulf of mexico angler reporting system). It was our effort at suggesting a softer word for stamp, license, etc. Our proposal and idea was to gain support from the feds and then work on the states because we knew that in FL and in other Gulf states, a stamp is a legislative thing.
> 
> ...


Bob, Just my opinion, buta better time for communication may have been BEFORE you chose to support the FWC staff recommendation to shorten the Red Snapper season in response to admittedly bad data, at the expense of the recreational fishermen.You lost alot of potential support from the Pensacola recreational folks, and likely the Bay county recreational fishermen as well.


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## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

Apparantly, the BAY COUNTY pri recs are not too concerned over the issue otherwise they would have shown up. I spoke on behalf of our assn as they made the decision and it was not easy. A bit of info y'all may not be unaware of. The City of Destin had presented a resolution stating they supported state/fed compadibility. A destin city commissioner had requested the Northwest FL league of Cities to do the same. One of our PCB city commissioners had provided that info and I provided him info on the matter and suggested the NW FL League stay out of the fight since the pri/recs had not weighed in except for your area. One of your city commissioners supported that the league stay out. There was one charter capt here who had requested that our county commission also support the destin resolution. Several of us requested they also stay out of the fight as the pri/recs had not been heard from here and they may not support if. Our commission did not adopt the resolution. So while PCBA took the position they did, we did not advocate the position and rather than have our politicians support fed/state compatibility which they had been asked to do, we requested they at least stay neutral as the situation was a no win. To this point, the vote by PCBA was not unanimous, it was a simple majority so the issue also split the membership. It was not an easy decision as I said and it did not break up the assn as we are a group and an assn that has been around since the late 50s I understand. I know it has been since the middle 60s as that is when my dad got involved. We have had hard decisions before, suspect we have them in the future and am proud to say, we try to what is best for the fishery, the business, our community, and state.

Issues such as this clearly show people why involvement is necessary and hopefully more people will get involved. There is power in numbers and so farmost of our power is still not. Maybe one day they will and together we can all make a significant change.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

good thread and real good ideas.

What about the fisherman that fishes offshore (rec) and does not "keep any snapper"? I for one do not keep them, I just like to bend a rod on the way in after getting nothing offshore?

There was a guy that checked me at Sherman Cove a while back, was not FWC, just doing a random "what did you catch" type of thing. he looked at and weighed a couple bonita and we went on our way.

Maby we can get UWF to incorporate something into their curriculum and have the students hang at random launches this summer and do a "survey" of some sort?

Tags, Tags, more Tags, Reef fish tags, what if you don't intend to keep anything from a reef? Just bend a rod? I suppose you would need a tag/stamp to keep anything from a reef like a AJ or Trigger? Or, would you get a fine if caught fishin a hunk of structure with out a stamp, and keeping no fish?

I guess my point is you can catch your limit of 2 snapper in about 15 minutes or less on any structure off pensacola. Buy a stamp to see how many fish are being caught, I see it going the other way. "Man everyone that went out, caught their limit, they are raping the resource, gotta stop that"

I am getting over the flu, if this rambling does not make sense, just over look my babbling.

Just a thought.


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

3 pm at MBT. Bring all ideas, criticisms, concerns and suggestions. See you guys there.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Realtor (2/7/2009)*good thread and real good ideas.
> 
> What about the fisherman that fishes offshore (rec) and does not "keep any snapper"? I for one do not keep them, I just like to bend a rod on the way in after getting nothing offshore?
> 
> ...


How the stamp would work is say next coming up season you want to catch Snapper and keep them you would have to have a Snapper stamp. If you want to catch and release no problem just can't have them in your posssession if you get checked unless you have a Snapper stamp. So far we haven't reached the point with Grouper or AJ's so you would not need a stamp for them.


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

yeah, we are formulating a plan now and would like everyone's input. We will discuss it Sunday at 3:00 pm at MBT on Barrancas.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I seesaw back and forth when trying and decidewhether or not having a snapper stamp at this particular time with respect to gathering better catch data is a good thing or a bad thing. 

I recognize that the red snapper stamp hasmany positivesaspects if (and that is a big IF) you couldkeep thepoliticianshands off the money from the salesof thestamp and keep the funding routed to theright places such as:

- Artificial Reef Habitat 

- Better Redsnapper research

- Red snapper hatcheries?

Help me out here with some reasoning on why giving NMFS better catch data throughissuance of a red snapper stampat this time is a good thing given the following factors? 

- NMFS collection methods and dataregardingthe health of the red snapper stock is flawed and is not likely to get better in the short term. NMFShas been usingthe flawed datato determinethe red snapperTotal Allowable Catch (TAC)in millions of poundswith 51% going to commercial and 49% going to recreational sector (including charter). 

- The red snapper TAC set byNMFS hasbeen going down for years and isdriven by the bad NMFS data.(Based onwhat those of us who fish and dive in the northern gulf know and see with our own eyes regardingthehealth of the red snapper stockthe NMFS red snapper TAC is currently set way low.)

Keeping in mind that NMFS has already set the red snapper TAC low (due totheir own flawed data)would not having a snapper stampfor the recreational sector serve to provideinformation toNMFSthat wouldallow NMFS toshutdown the red snapper fishery down early every year when NMFSdetermined that the red snapper TAC(whichis based on flawed data)had been met?

Seems like a crazy vicious cycle not unlike the one current being fought.

In the end would have to say that the stamp's potential positive outcomes for the red snapper fisheryoutweigh the negatives.

Mark W


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

I hope it is not throwing good money after bad!

*The money from a stamp going to better science is a good thing, *<U>"IF",</U>* the money is not used to pay the same ole scientist more money for the same ole science they are providing now, or use the stamp money to stop funding they receive from somewhere else.

*The money going to habitat is good also but, if they would just open up are area like Alabama there are plenty of people who would build artificial reefsnow at no coast to the state. The money needs to be used to hire a person to do battle with the Corp of Engineers if they are identified as the problem.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

> *Outside9 (2/7/2009)*I hope it is not throwing good money after bad!
> 
> *The money from a stamp going to better science is a good thing, *<U>"IF",</U>* the money is not used to pay the same ole scientist more money for the same ole science they are providing now, or use the stamp money to stop funding they receive from somewhere else.
> 
> *The money going to habitat is good also but, if they would just open up are area like Alabama there are plenty of people who would build artificial reefsnow at no coast to the state. The money needs to be used to hire a person to do battle with the Corp of Engineers if they are identified as the problem.




Good points particularly in this time of economic hardship the State of FL is hurting for funding so bad...

You would need for someone in the FL state house to shepherd this thing like a baby. toensure that every "i" was dotted and every "t" crossed and that the legislation was so tightly worded the funds could not be broken out to lets say fund resources that feedsNMFS science.

Another question. Let's say the state of Florida goes to a snapper stamp. What about the other snapper fishing Gulf states TX, LA, MS and AL. They would not have a stamp requirement. 

What would stop NMFS from continue to impose their draconian measures on FL because TX was not participating. Or would this beafederal stamp and not a state stamp?

Mark W


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Lajess, Thanks,

One more thought. Don't beat me to hard....

If I buy a stamp to keep reef fish, There are say 100 days to fish, 2 snapper/day, will they look at it as I went fishing 100 times and killed 200 fish? I don't see how this can turn into viable data. It's flawed now, and it always will be unless there is someone there counting every fish that comes out of the water. 

I may be missing something here but...

When I was a kid, we hunted ducks up north, we had to buy a stamp to hunt ducks so called a duck stamp on the lic. 

The state looked at it in such a way. If the hunter can hunt each and every day, bagging the whole limit, what is the MOST amount of ducks he could harvest. They took that number and divided it by 2 and that was what they based their data on... 

My point here is, no one that buys a stamp for snapper is going to kill their limit each and every day, I think this will enable the authorities to really blow the kill numbers out of control..... ex. 50,000 people buy the snapper stamp, they go fishin each day of the season, this is 100,000 fish (PER DAY), how can they "really figure the number of fish killed"?

Just a thought. it can get messy and we could cut our own throats.:baby


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Realtor (2/7/2009)*
> 
> My point here is, no one that buys a stamp for snapper is going to kill their limit each and every day, I think this will enable the authorities to really blow the kill numbers out of control..... ex. 50,000 people buy the snapper stamp, they go fishin each day of the season, this is 100,000 fish (PER DAY), how can they "really figure the number of fish killed"?
> 
> Just a thought. it can get messy and we could cut our own throats.:baby


That is essentailly how they're doing it now, but they are including <U>*everyone*</U> that buys a Florida fishing license. By using a stamp we will at least narrow the number down to people that bought the stamp, and not every licensee in the state.

If we don't do something positive we're going to see fish tags, and mandatory reporting, and satellite tracking, and god knows what else.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Evensplit (2/7/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Realtor (2/7/2009)*
> ...


That's why we need to have the stamp for recreationally fishermen defined. What I mean by that is realistically I'm not going to be taking home my allowable catch this next coming up season. I will not be fishing 112 days and will not be bringing home 224 Red Snapper for my part. If I fished those many days then that would actually not be recreational it would be more on the line of professionally and would be running my boat like a Charter. Recreational means occasionally. So my point is that recreation needs to be counted as fishing 2 to 3 times a week instead of counting it as everyday of the season.That would put recreational at amore realistic count. So that would be 74 to 106 Red Snapper instead of 224. Even at 74 to 106is still an over count because all of the people I know only get to venture out about 3 to 4 times a month. So for reporting that needs to be addressed as to what would be a realistic count. </DIV>Something else that needs to be addressed is during these months we may have a hurricane that will effect the count. If we are hit by one and we are not allowed on the water ways for a month like it was when Ivan hit then every stamp sold in the areas affected needs to be a deduction in the reporting of TAC. That is not going to be that hard to account for because the FWC, Coast Coast will have the data at hand as to how long the waterways where shut down to vessels.</DIV></DIV>The cost of the Snapper stamp should not be no more than 5.00. Snook permits & Lobster permits only cost 2.00. And on the hunting side Turkey permit 5.00 & Waterfowl 3.00. Needs to be affordable.</DIV></DIV>On the reporting issue the State randomly sends out surveys now for hunters. When purchasing a stamp you will have to give the State your name and mailing address anyway so why not have a month survey automatically mailed out once a month to Red Snapper stamp holders and only do so for the months that are open for Red Snapper season.</DIV></DIV>I don't know how to post a pole on here but if someone can let's post a pole for how many Snapper fish and one below it as to how many days a month you are able to venture out to fish.</DIV>


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

Another angle to consider is that the SOS plan has been submitted and with calculating that the true rec guy fishes, say four times a month, the stamp data will give the charters the data they need to take from our TAC that much easier. Many variable to consider and not everyone has the best intentions on how to use the data once it is produced, based on that, I would rather have the data to be based on me fishing and limiting out the 112 days to keep our portion of the TAC that the charter group wants to take away. Yea, I know all charters don't feel that way but there is still that group that is pushing their plan and agenda.


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## Runned Over (Sep 6, 2008)

I would buy the stamp if that was decided. What bothers me is that if someone were to look at past Red Snapper regulations. I. E. the ones in place leading up to the depletion of the Red Snappers, and compare it to the regulations on Red Snapper that have been in place since the <U>Endangered</U> realization happened and the subsequent comeback. There should be a happy medium!!!! If some natural occurrance happens that hurts the Red Snapper change the bag limit.

I get fustrated by the fact that we can put people on the moon 40yrs ago but we can't figure out how to count fish!!! Secondly, with a military background, no intelligence is better than the intelligence gathered by the troops that are out there and seeing it! So seeing this INTELLIGENCE ignored is also fustrating. Kinda reminds me of what I read aboutthe Viet Nam situation in which they would drop siesmic sensors into areas and try to count how many enemy troops were in that area, all of a sudden there were THOUSANDS ofenemy troops walkingON the sensor. Then the other sensors, within a kilometer, indicated no movement.

Sorry for the Rant!!!


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">This is a little off topic but still relevant.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">At the FWC meeting someone, I can't remember who, said fishery managers wouldn't listen to anecdotal evidence of the people that attend the FWC meetings and it occurred to me thatthese are the people they are supposed to be polling with their MMRFS data collection so...why isn't their testimony valid at FWC meetings? These are the REAL fishermen; we should be listening to them!<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">I know what I see when I go diving and what I'm seeing is Red Snappers as thick as cockroaches down there. They are dominating every reef.<o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">Igive my word that I truly believe that the Red Snapper populationhas already begun to have an adverse affect on the survivability of other recreationally important fish species. <o></o><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><P style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

Candy,

Will you and some of your members be able to make it over to the meeting this Sunday at MBT? I would like your input into the stamp discussion. We are meeting at 3:00pm at MBT Divers 3920 Barrancas Ave, Pensacola, FL 32507.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

I still say the <U>MOST</U> accurate way to go is a red snapper tag. I have a 26 foot offshore boat and due to work, kids etc, I make it offshore a handful of times each year. A stamp would not represent how few snapper I catch each year.

<U></U>

*Why not go with a red snapper tagging system, just like other states have for deer. You go by the local tackle shop and for a small price you buy how many snapper tags you want. Maybe limit the number a guy can by so no one could buy them all up. When a red snapper is caught you place the non-re-usable tag on the fish and it stays there until you are checked or the fish is cleaned. When the season ends, say April 15th through October 31st, it would be important for anyone with left over tags to return them to the FWC so they would not be counted as caught fish. 

Simple to enforce, if you get caught in possession of a red snapper and no tag in it then you have a violation.

Simple to keep count of fish caught also, just as long as everyone gets their unused tags back in when season ends.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm not saying a tag idea is bad, I've just got 100 ways around it to help me get more snapper -- if I was the cheating kind.

Come to the meeting. A lot of the ideas put out here have been covered in small groups and we've thought through some loopholes and closed them up.


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

Statistical sampling of the folks that buy a snapper stamp via phone surveys and then a smaller subset sampled by actual observation at boat ramps and marinas. That and a voluntary web or mobile device (phone) based reporting system seem like the best tools and techniques to be employed to get realistic numbers on actual landings from the private sector. 



To me that is one side of the equation - the other side is the 2009 stock assessment that was indicated (in the PNJ) would happen this year. That assessment must include both natural and artificial structure and preferably the inputs would be able to be regionalized to support a more realistic (future) zonal management approach.


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## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

need2fish your suggestion is very similar to the GOMARS proposal and suggestion for the pri rec sector. The term GOMARS is our soft way of saying stamp. We believe it can work and we believe participation will be very good. Our idea was to gain acceptance on the fed level first and then take to the states because of legislative requirements to issue stamp.After the FWC meeting we now think we should shift our effort to the state level as it appears to us that the stamp idea is gaining more and more acceptance. This is why we do not believe we need sector separation as we believe the pri recs can provide real time and accountable data and mostly they are willing to do so.

The updated red snapper stock assessment is just that, an update. Crabtree told everyone at the council meeting that if that update indicates that mortality has not changed much since the last assessment in 05 that the TAC could be less next year than the 5 mil today so I would suggest that people do not get their hopes up yet. It is not a full assessment meaning that some of the data will be updated but any new data may not be included. We have repeatedly called for a full assessment but the NMFS refuses to do one. NMFS also still considers artificial reefs as aggregate devices where fishing is easier but they do not provide the habitat for spawning and increasing stock abundance. This is a critical issue and a position most of us disagree with.Artificial reefs do provide the habitat necessary for the fish to spawn and increase biomass. We would like to help with the stamp issue and work to getsomething reasonable thru the legislature.


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok , Fishermen from shore doesnt catch red snappers. Black snappers yes. Make them have a stamp or tag to harvest snappers.But the average shore fishermen catch, Pinfish, redfish,catfish, Crap fish. They arent apart of this snapper stuff. If you made them buy a licence to say keep up with thier numbers ok , 5.00 bucks. to never go up. There wont be anybody behind the fee to clean up , etc , or to replenish fish. theres a lot of shore fishermen who screw things up but as soon as the white trout bridge gets fixed. theyll all be back there paying to fish. Im afraid the more the #s of fishermen reported the more theyre gonna screw us. Im not for giving the state any more ammunition. Im sure you guys are trying some way to do something positive but when it involves government , it usually backfires in your face.


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

> *King Crab (2/8/2009)*Ok , Fishermen from shore doesnt catch red snappers. Black snappers yes. Make them have a stamp or tag to harvest snappers.But the average shore fishermen catch, Pinfish, redfish,catfish, Crap fish. They arent apart of this snapper stuff. If you made them buy a licence to say keep up with thier numbers ok , 5.00 bucks. to never go up. There wont be anybody behind the fee to clean up , etc , or to replenish fish. theres a lot of shore fishermen who screw things up but as soon as the white trout bridge gets fixed. theyll all be back there paying to fish. Im afraid the more the #s of fishermen reported the more theyre gonna screw us. Im not for giving the state any more ammunition. Im sure you guys are trying some way to do something positive but when it involves government , it usually backfires in your face.


King Crab,

The truth of the matter is that things ARE going to change. The National SaltwaterAngler Registry is a done deal and it goes into effect in 2010 so you will be buying a federal license from them to shore fish if Florida does not comply.

In case you are not aware, the NMFS, Gulf Council and the FWC are already considering 2 proposals to manage the fishery - The SOS proposal and the Gomars proposal. It doesn't matter if you like change or not, it's coming. The Red Snapper Stamp provides another option to consider. 

As far as the Red Snapper stamp, if you don't fish for Red Snapper, you just don't buy the stamp. Simple.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Another thing we have all got to keep in mind is the cost. Which is going to be most cost effective way to go the stamp or Gomars? The fisherman are not going to be the only ones involved in this decision it will be all Floridians . Floridians and right down to the legislators are going to be looking hard at the cost. The ones who don't fish are not going to give a rats behind about what the Feds are doing they are going to be looking at what the cost outcome will be to have to go in and setupa system. But as it stands FWC already has a system setup for license and stamp issuing. To add a stamp to the program is not going to be as costly.The monies from the stamp should pay for any additional startup cost and administrative fees. Can someone tell us on here what they think roughly it would cost to get the Gomars up and running and how long it would take to get the system up and running? We need to be looking at all the Pro's & Con's right now and come up with a plan and get it ironed out quick.</DIV>


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

The GOMARS proposal includesa $16.00 annual fee.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

But what will the cost be to get the system setup and running with FWC ?


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## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

Candy,

The GOMARS proposal suggests a $16 fee for a fed permit/stamp and is based on the HMS permit. It is not edtched in stone, is a recommendation to save arguing over fees, as you know we suggested that for the fed discussions. It hasnothing to do with the state stamp issue.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Sorry Bob II. I was thinking the Gomars was being looked at on a State level. But actually it was put out on the Fed level. Understand now. So not to misunderstand cost Gomars is not even a consideration at State level right now. Thanks.


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## wirebiter (Jun 4, 2008)

I know this is a little off topic but not really. One issue that people have with the fish counts is the number of trips taken in a given year. They say that a fisherman takes half of the allowable season to go fishing if I remember correctly. I for one do not go nearly that much. At the most a couple of times a month, very rarely more. Would it be possible to have a sticker like a sunpass that they use on toll bridges to be placed on boats and have a reader at the entrance of the ramps to read when a boat visits a ramp. I know its not perfect but could give a better estimate of how many trips are being taken each year. The same equipment that is used for sunpass could work just maintained in a different database. It would be costly at first installing all the equipment, and could be part of the money for research that the snapper stamp provides.


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## Brandy (Sep 28, 2007)

What are they going to do when they actually get good data? The commercial guys are catching their 3 million pounds. If better data shows the rec guys are only actually catching 1 million pounds are the going to reduce the commercial tac to be inline with the rec. They cant triple our limits or it would be too much pressure on the resource?


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## dbyrd2100 (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks Capt. Paul for putting this into an understandable format. It makes real sense to have a snapper stamp. I've had a saltwater license since it became required but caught my first red snapper last year. It's just insane that the federal, state or whatever management in control of our fisheries has never bothered at an attempt to gather accurate data. I suppose if we hired lobbiest and played politics a little better, we would be in better shape as far as our take is concerned. That's just the problem,I and probably millions of people just like me just want to fish, not play politics.It seems to me that we'd be betterserved sending our $10.00 to a lobbiest on our behalf to "grease" politicians as neccesary to get ourselves fair representation. Moneymakes things happen and I have a strong suspicion that recreational fishermen could put a nice pot together.


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

> *dbyrd2100 (2/8/2009)*Thanks Capt. Paul for putting this into an understandable format. It makes real sense to have a snapper stamp. I've had a saltwater license since it became required but caught my first red snapper last year. It's just insane that the federal, state or whatever management in control of our fisheries has never bothered at an attempt to gather accurate data. I suppose if we hired lobbiest and played politics a little better, we would be in better shape as far as our take is concerned. That's just the problem,I and probably millions of people just like me just want to fish, not play politics.It seems to me that we'd be betterserved sending our $10.00 to a lobbiest on our behalf to "grease" politicians as neccesary to get ourselves fair representation. Moneymakes things happen and I have a strong suspicion that recreational fishermen could put a nice pot together.


Nice gesture to think recreational fishermen getting to gether to make a nice pot to grease politician hands would be nice but keep dreaming.I'm still not sure what to call every group yet, but if it were not for Capt. Paul's group, there wouldn't be anything going on. There is not many "recreational fishermen" involved in this battle. There was a meeting this afternoon at the dive shop and I think I was one ofmaybe 2 or 3real recreational guys in attendance.Not to be critical of anyone but if you can't get people to attend meetings, which I have been guilty of myself,how are you going to get them to cough up $10 or write letters, which is what needs to be done more than anything? 

I have a long way to go beforeI will understand all of the issues and parties involved in this battle but I am going toread everything I can andlisten to all the people that I can so I will understand it all. I wantto keep the recreation that I enjoy. Sitting on the side lines is not an option any longer. 

What we need to do is support the movement that has been started and get our friends to get involved. While there is a large number of us, over all none of us are involved, they need our support in a big way with a big number of people, hence "strength is in numbers". I've gotten off my duff and am trashing all of my friends trying to shame them into getting involved and will not cut them any slack until they do, even if I lose a few friends because of it.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

> *frydaddy (2/8/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *dbyrd2100 (2/8/2009)*Thanks Capt. Paul for putting this into an understandable format. It makes real sense to have a snapper stamp. I've had a saltwater license since it became required but caught my first red snapper last year. It's just insane that the federal, state or whatever management in control of our fisheries has never bothered at an attempt to gather accurate data. I suppose if we hired lobbiest and played politics a little better, we would be in better shape as far as our take is concerned. That's just the problem,I and probably millions of people just like me just want to fish, not play politics.It seems to me that we'd be betterserved sending our $10.00 to a lobbiest on our behalf to "grease" politicians as neccesary to get ourselves fair representation. Moneymakes things happen and I have a strong suspicion that recreational fishermen could put a nice pot together.
> ...


You need to bump your 2coolfishing back up to the top or start a new thread and go to where I (The LaJess II) instruct you to each thread and post that. If you really want to geteveryone fired up. Texas is not playing around with the Feds they are serious and they are not going to back down. They don't mind sharing emails that they have received from some Destin Florida Capt.'s either. You guys need to get on there and do some reading.


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## ryanbr (Oct 10, 2007)

Paul

I starting to wonder if the snapper stamp ought to be a reef fish stamp. I foresee a person from here living in Ft. Lauderdale buying a snapper stamp to help support reefs. That does the accounting system no good to be able to buy a "red" snapper stamp around the state. Also, later down the road are we going to buy a grouper or trigger or mingo snapper stamp. If I live in an intermediate area(ie Tampa), am I allowed to keep a fish I accidentally catch that I don't normally fish for if I don't posses a stamp.It's my opinion that most people in a particular region are reef fishing for any fish that will bite, with some exceptions. People targeting a particular species usually has to do with what's open during the season they are fishing. At some point we would have to demand that for data purposes the stamp would cover only those species common to that area. Also, money generated in a county stays in that county. I don't know but it's just a thought.

Thanks 

Chris


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *ryanbr (2/9/2009)*Paul
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## curtpcol (Sep 29, 2007)

Capt. Paul

I was watchingTommy Holmes TV show last night when he said "Why not putseasons on Snook,Tarpon,Permits and bonefish since we catch very few of these fish here in the panhandle". After thinking it over he is right we are the capital of Red Snapper here and there is a reason for this as Snapper thrive here. We are going to have to make some boundaries somehow on our fish. Tommy also said about "the size limit on Cobia should be raised from 33 to 44 inches" there again he is right but in South Florida a 33 inch Cobia is a large fish.

Thanks Tommy for your input I could tell you had some pretty tight lips on the subject matter.


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## ryanbr (Oct 10, 2007)

Now there's another topic. I don't know that the science is there but in my opinion the only reason we don't go to a slot limit on cobes is the large tournaments. This is an instance where I think raising the size limit may not make as much sense as protecting the large breeding fish. I would even support the tarpon style tag purchase for an over slot cobia. That to me would make things interesting. You'd be allowed to catch that big fish but you'd have to wait on "the big fish". This is especially important in this neck of the woods because these fish are headed west to spawn. 

Just a little thinking out loud

Chris


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

The discussion on Regions is a good one and I believe that the Reef Fish Stamp could help to bring that about ...<P align=center>_IF_

We insist on fish counts done locally in every county that receives Reef building funds.

Thecounties could be in charge of hiring a local contractor to conduct the fish counts and provide video proof of the report. This would not require that a full time staffer be paid so the cost would be very low. The contractor would carry his/her owninsurance and the county and the FWC wouldn't be required to pay for medical, dental, vision, life insurance etc... It would provide a nice littleincomeon an as needed basis.

The information from those counts,would give fishery managers better data on the concentrations of different species in each region. This should make regionalizing in the future much easier to accomplish.

This is another reason to be <U>VERY specific</U> how the revenue from the stamp is used. The term "Research" canleave the door open to creating big payouts to universities without producing data of what is really going on in the GOM.Let's fund fish counts and reef monitoring in the areas that build reefs using funding from the Reef Stamp.

I fear that if we feed too many programs, we will look back with regret because we didn't accomplish the goal we set out to accomplish and that is More funding for reefs and better fish data.


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

bump


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

bump


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