# Charter Boats working from Public Use Docks



## LibertyCall (Oct 3, 2007)

I am interested in the thoughts of this group on a couple subjects affecting the local boating/fishing community. (I generally hate how government passes a new ordinance every time the wind blows, but sometimes you just have to.)

1. There has been a noticable uptick in complaints from citizens about charter captains using the publicly-funded boat docks of the county to operate their business. Complaints run from whether or not this is appropriate at all to clogging up the pier space for safety briefs customers taking limited parking all day at our few ramps and fish cleaning at the ramp dropping carcasses in the water. Most complaints center around Galvez Landing, but Mahogany Mill gets some as well. I would be interested in the experiences of others on forum.

2. We have built a couple new ramps in the last couple years wit BP money. Do we have enough public ramps and iff not, what parts of the County should be a priority?

Doug
County Commissioner, District 2


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Any chance you can get a couple more launch sites built in Orange Beach. Any pull over this way? Having 2 public launches over here is crazy.


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

I believe a trailered boat has every right to use the public ramp. Keep in mind people from hub stacys also use the public ramp parking at Galvez. People enjoying the afternoon in the bank also enjoy the public ramp parking at Gálvez.
I think if you show up to the ramp a little earlier, you could also use the ramp parking. I'm referring to the public and not you yourself.
Complaining about a full parking lot is preventable by beating the crowd .'I launch in orange beach, and if you wait to long in any weekend in the summer , your not going to find a parking spot. I have never once thought of any other angle to blame other than on myself for not showing up to the ramp earlier .

We need more parking as the area has grown. More visitors are enjoying what is there for the public to use . Accepting growth and building accordingly is the answer.

Public use is first come first serve. Expect a crowded lot in the warm season, specifically on the weekends.


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## stevenattsu (Apr 24, 2009)

First off look at the stickers on the truck and trailers. I don't run charters but I commercially fish I have paid good money over the years to the City of Gulf Breeze and Pensacola for boat ramp decals. The people that clog up the ramps are the ones who don't know were to stage there boats(don't start screwing around and loading your boat when your halfway down the ramp) and the people that don't know these ramps are made for two boats to back down, but since it only takes money to buy boats not sense the problem will never get fixed. The only thing you can do is politely educate these people.


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Hell no. Build more ramps!!


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't run charters, but the folks that I do know that run inshore charters and use these local boat ramps are using them 5 to 7 days a week... Which means also 5 to 7 days a week they are spending money on bait, tackle, fuel... all of which, you guessed it, is taxed. To me they have more of a right to use the ramp so to speak, than your average weekend warrior. 

The inshore captains I know, and I know many, are a driving force in this community. They are upstanding people with a lot of local support... I don't think it would be wise to go after them.


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

John B. said:


> I don't run charters, but the folks that I do know that run inshore charters and use these local boat ramps are using them 5 to 7 days a week... Which means also 5 to 7 days a week they are spending money on bait, tackle, fuel... all of which, you guessed it, is taxed. To me they have more of a right to use the ramp so to speak, than your average weekend warrior.
> 
> The inshore captains I know, and I know many, are a driving force in this community. They are upstanding people with a lot of local support... I don't think it would be wise to go after them.


Get serious. While I don't have any issue with the charter people using the ramps . they have no more right to use them than the weekend Joe. If you use your logic, they should only use them on the week days and let the everyday Joe use them only on weekends. It is a public ramp, paid for by the people who out number and pay more taxes than any charter captain. First Come first served. 
Get real !


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

submariner said:


> Get serious. While I don't have any issue with the charter people using the ramps . they have no more right to use them than the weekend Joe. If you use your logic, they should only use them on the week days and let the everyday Joe use them only on weekends. It is a public ramp, paid for by the people who out number and pay more taxes than any charter captain. First Come first served.
> Get real !


I am being real... just because someone uses a ramp every day, doesn't mean they're the problem causing delays... in fact, I would be willing to bet that since they use the ramps so often, they are even more efficient when using the ramp...

Never did I say I think they should have priority, I'm just saying they invest more money in the fishing community than most. If you alienate them, you're making a mistake.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

Ban the idiots that use the ramp 3 times a year not the guys that use it everyday or every week. They are the real problem and hold up.


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

John B. said:


> I am being real... just because someone uses a ramp every day, doesn't mean they're the problem causing delays... in fact, I would be willing to bet that since they use the ramps so often, they are even more efficient when using the ramp...
> 
> Never did I say I think they should have priority, I'm just saying they invest more money in the fishing community than most. If you alienate them, you're making a mistake.


Sorry I mis- understood your statement of "To me they have more of a right to use the ramp so to speak, than your average weekend warrior. "


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

submariner said:


> Sorry I mis- understood your statement of "To me they have more of a right to use the ramp so to speak, than your average weekend warrior. "


Honestly I didn't word that well... they don't have more of a right, as we all have an equal right to a public resource (tell that to NOAA) but they are much more efficient at what they do, and for the most part, do contribute a lot more to the fishing community than your average weekend warrior. 

I think this is a misdiagnosis of what the true problem is... people showing up late to a crowded ramp, right about the time the inshore guys are getting back (11am-noon) and seeing them with a boatload of fish...


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## SurfRidr (Apr 24, 2012)

LibertyCall said:


> I am interested in the thoughts of this group on a couple subjects affecting the local boating/fishing community. (I generally hate how government passes a new ordinance every time the wind blows, but sometimes you just have to.)
> 
> 1. There has been a noticable uptick in complaints from citizens about charter captains using the publicly-funded boat docks of the county to operate their business. Complaints run from whether or not this is appropriate at all to clogging up the pier space for safety briefs customers taking limited parking all day at our few ramps and fish cleaning at the ramp dropping carcasses in the water. Most complaints center around Galvez Landing, but Mahogany Mill gets some as well. I would be interested in the experiences of others on forum.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your questions and seeking input from the public you represent. Personally I think the inshore charter captains are no less a part of the public than you or I are. In addition to spending money in the local economy, as has been pointed out, they are also taking folks fishing who might otherwise not get the chance to get on the water and enjoy the area. In my case, that was partly how I fell in love with the area and decided to move down here. Capt. Matt McLeod and Capt. Tony Eddins showed us some great fishing, and they were both respectful and efficient at the ramp. 

Clogged ramps and parking are more directly caused by those who use them without knowing how to trailer and launch their boats (boat ramp is some really interesting people-watching), people without the sense to load / unload somewhere other than ON the ramp lane, and people who don't know how to properly park a trailer and chew up two spaces because they didn't straighten their trailer as they pulled into the space.

Cleaning the fish at the ramp.... Well, if you don't want people doing that then you would need to legislate and post it all over the place. I have seen more "regular Joe's" doing that than charter captains, and that includes putting the fish scraps in the trash cans rather than taking them home and burying them like we do.

I'm not a charter captain, but I don't think they are your problem. I agree that going after them for use of public ramps is not only wrong on a fairness and morality basis, it's bad business for the area.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

John B. said:


> Which means also 5 to 7 days a week they are spending money on bait, tackle, fuel... all of which, you guessed it, is taxed. To me they have more of a right to use the ramp so to speak, than your average weekend warrior.


I don't believe that money spent "on bait, tackle, fuel... all of which.... is taxed", does any more to support the building of more ramps/facilities with tax dollars, than I as a local working 8 to 5 in an office and spending my earnings in Escambia county on varied items other than bait, tackle etc. 

Same way for a tourist spending dollars in Escambia county. JS

In answer to the questions. Don't think restricting charters from ramps/docks is the answer.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Charter Captains are also part of the people who paid with their Taxes to build these ramps.
They have as much rights to use them as anyone.
If you stop them from using the ramps, how will the run their business then ?
Sounds like a big lawsuit to me if they bar them from using them !


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## stevenattsu (Apr 24, 2009)

If only people liked us


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Build more ramps!


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

I've always found it amazing that there is no decent ramp at Pensacola Beach. Go look at the one at Navarre Beach to see how a ramp/parking should be. 
HOWEVER, the Navarre ramp is not a model of how parking enforcement should work. On any given weekend you can find many cars parked in the "trailer only" spots. So a guy in a crew cab pickup pulling a 25' trailer has to go find a spot on the street while a Toyota Tercel is taking up 1/4 of a big parking spot while parking in front of a "trailer only" sign.
They should all be given tickets.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

welldoya said:


> I've always found it amazing that there is no decent ramp at Pensacola Beach. Go look at the one at Navarre Beach to see how a ramp/parking should be.
> HOWEVER, the Navarre ramp is not a model of how parking enforcement should work. On any given weekend you can find many cars parked in the "trailer only" spots. So a guy in a crew cab pickup pulling a 25' trailer has to go find a spot on the street while a Toyota Tercel is taking up 1/4 of a big parking spot while parking in front of a "trailer only" sign.
> They should all be given tickets.


I used that ramp for the first time Saturday evening... that is the finest ramp in northwest florida.


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## ironman (Oct 18, 2007)

Splittine said:


> Ban the idiots that use the ramp 3 times a year not the guys that use it everyday or every week. They are the real problem and hold up.


 I fit into the "3 times a year" catagory and can tell you it is how you were taught not how many times a year you go. I have seen way more people that had more money than sence holding up people with their big expensive boats and high dollar tow vehicles. They couldn't even back down the ramp.


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## RockB (Oct 11, 2007)

One of the guys here in Panama City that rents pontoon boats used to trailer them and put them in one of the ramps closest to you.


Apparently one of his competitors that has waterfront property $$$ complained to one of their county commissioner buddies to make it illegal to use the ramps for "commercial purposes".


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

I would like to thank Commissioner Doug Underhill for creating this thread and subject matter.

I feel that charters that are trailered in to use the ramp and their customers are an "okay" use of a public ramp/facility.

However, when the walk-on, charter captain of a boat too large to be trailered to the ramp sells his services and directs his customers to park at the ramp and he will be docked at the public dock to start and end the tour is NOT proper use of a public facility.

If I was that captains competition, renting space at a marina or maintaining my own private dock facility, 
I would be bitching that the county is willingly subsidizing my competition.


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## grumpy old man (Dec 20, 2009)

public boat ramps are just that- public. its how well you can launch and retreive your boat, and how courteous your are. charter capts have just as much right as the rest of us to launch at public ramps, inmo.


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## WW2 (Sep 28, 2007)

Ummm, they also use the public road to drive the boat there. If you're pissed that you are a tax payer with a boat and you have to share with a commercial fisherman how do you think people who don't even own a boat feel? 

The only solution would be to have zero taxes go to the ramp and make it 100% use based by fees.


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## SurfRidr (Apr 24, 2012)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> However, when the walk-on, charter captain of a boat too large to be trailered to the ramp sells his services and directs his customers to park at the ramp and he will be docked at the public dock to start and end the tour is NOT proper use of a public facility.


And that would be a different animal, and I agree there. The loading docks at the ramps are supposed to be for just that... Loading and unloading, and tying up while parking your car. If the use you described above is not unlawful, it should be. Also, cars parked in spaces meant and designated for trailer parking should get tickets the same as any other parking violation.


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

Build bigger facilities. You can't keep building boat ramps for Jon boats being pulled by an S-10. These days lots of people have crew cab trucks and 20' boats. The parking areas are way to small. You have to have plenty of parking for non trailer vehicles also. When you show up at the launch to fish with someone and there are only a handful of parking places for regular vehicles you run into a problem. If you look at a place like Russell harbor landing in Milton. It is all boat parking and only regular parking in front of the gazebos. That's no good. 

sent from somewhere your not


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Our charter boat friends have to make a living too. I have no problem sharing a ramp as long as all involved are respectful to each other. I would also like more ramps to be built.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

good thread, I edited this so as not to be so sarcastic... but please try and get along... I agree more parking because busy weekends produce a lot of dented fenders...


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for the questions. I believe more adequate parking would be almost as important as additional ramps particularly larger spots for vehicles pulling boat trailers. I have a lift so I have no dog in the fight however I fish with others who use the ramps friends as well as Charters. The parkings spots for trailers are way to small as someone pointed out. Thanks again for your concern about the fishing public both Charters and the regular ole weekender. Neither get much support from government officials.


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## fishnhuntguy (Feb 8, 2012)

Interesting debate. Be thankful for one thing. You have public launches. In SE LA, best fishing is in St. Bernard and Placqaminnes Parish. There are no public launches in those parishes. All are controlled by private businesses. 

Solution add more ramps to existing launches. Add more parking. Add more sites with launches and parking. Use the $400 billion Obama just flew over to Iran !


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## stevenattsu (Apr 24, 2009)

Be happy with what we have up here. Down in south Florida there's ramps that hit you twice, launching and pulling out .


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

In my experience from Panama City to Mobile there are very very few private pay ramps for them to use, so if you bar Charters from using public ramps, where are they going to launch ?
They would have to keep their boat in dry storage or slip at a marina, which would be a added cost to their business, and as a small business owner, I can tell you, its tough enough already !


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

I agree in part with huntandfishguy add additional ramps and parking at the ramps we have now. BTW good point HnF guy. I would also suggest separating the ramps with a walkway/dividers to eliminate the less than intelligent boater from taking two spaces to launch one boat. I think it was 400 million not 400 billion HnF guy.


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## LibertyCall (Oct 3, 2007)

*Thanks!*

I really appreciate the discussion on the subject. I generally tend to lean Libertarian...seems like we have a rule for everything and subset of rules for every rule. I am holding out that the Innerarity Point Park next to Galvez will move the non-trailer parking and the swimmers off the ramp area. I do worry about the even playing field between those who rent dockage and those who don't. I guess the clients taking up publi parking is the issue that really matters, since it denies others that use. 

I do think we ought to use more of the BP money for more ramps, since the market realities of our area make public access to the water a dying resource if we dont move to protect it.
Doug


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## RockB (Oct 11, 2007)

LibertyCall said:


> I do worry about the even playing field between those who rent dockage and those who don't.


The ones that rent dockage look more professional, the ones that don't look less so. It depends on the clientele they are both targeting. Don't get me wrong I would have no problem going with someone who runs out of the boat ramp but there are some people that would not. 

It's been a long time since I went to any of the ramps other than Texar but I do not remember seeing any cleaning stations at any of the public ramps. That is another thing that they guys running from a marina have going for them. To many people having the ability to clean the fish right at the water and only taking fillets home is a big deal.



LibertyCall said:


> I guess the clients taking up public parking is the issue that really matters, since it denies others that use.


I really do not see this as an issue. If they were meeting a buddy at the ramp and going with them they would take up the same amount of space parking. What is the difference? If they are locals they are paying property taxes (either directly or bundled into their rent) or if not they are paying a bed tax with their hotel room. Either way in my opinion, they have just as much right to park there.


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## reel jewell (Sep 21, 2014)

I guess one way to look at it is like highway traffic...taxpayers from the general public pay for highways...also commercial trucks and other vehicle owners pay taxes...so everyone should be able to use boat ramps, highways and the like when they choose.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

I think this would he hard as hell to figure out what cars at a public ramp are with a charter,or with a friend that they met there with a boat.


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## Smarty (Nov 23, 2008)

Realtor said:


> I think this would he hard as hell to figure out what cars at a public ramp are with a charter,or with a friend that they met there with a boat.


That's a fact! Next thing you'd know our public boat ramps would turn into what the Johnson Beach bungalows changed into in the '80's. Operated by monitored pay to park, then shut down when nobody was there to monitor said use. Many times in the past I would pull up to a public boat ramp with a pedal boat carefully strapped on the top of my old bad ass GT mustang, launching and quickly moving aside then parking in the regular vehicle parking. I pay my taxes just like the next person that had a trailer for their public boat launch but had to park further away while experiencing the risk of someone stealing my equipment. When late at night I went as far as to park in the (mostly always empty) trailered parking only spot and I would leave a note with a picture on the dash showing my vehicle with the boat on top of it out of fear of being ripped off or getting a fine. There again I pay my taxes just like everyone else. Now I don't have a boat. I at times will wet a hook at our public ramps always parking appropriately. If a boater or trailered boat approaches I will quickly reel in and step aside. And if someone appears to need assistance I will gladly offer to help if they want it. 
I guess my point is to everyone. Just because you own a boat it does not give you total rights to said public boat ramps. Even if I never go to another public boat ramp again I'm still paying for it in some form. Be careful for what you ask for because only too many times our Federal and local government have stepped in and screwed it all up for everyone.


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## 153 Large fish (Nov 30, 2013)

If the parking enforcement did thier job, we wouldn't be having this conversation. ..every boat ramp I go to has some dummy with an untrailered vehicle parked in a truck and trailer spot...Charter Captains do things correctly at the boat ramp, it's the once a year guys causing all the problems. ..


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

Public means public. Are you going to tell a guy driving a truck for business that he can't use the road beacause he's engaged in business? A public boat ramp is no different. A charter boat has as much right to a publicly funded boat ramp as anyone else. If you want your own ramp, build it yourself with your own money, and you can have your own private ramp that you can regulate as you wish. A public ramp belongs to everyone including the charter boat captain who, as already mentioned, has probably paid more taxes to fund it, than the weekend warrior, and by his business, is continuing to support the fishing industry in the local area.


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## bhudson (Apr 22, 2015)

^^^^^^^ I agree with florabama. If it's not yours and it's a public space, then you don't own it, nor do you own the water. We all have to share the public spaces and sometimes the parking situation sucks. First come, first serve. Those that bitch about it seem like arrogant pricks. Don't like it? Don't go


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

So everyone wants more ramps, but we went thru that drill a few years ago with the big Zero...... most people on Bayous dont want a "public" boat ramp on "their" waterway.
We have a half done deal for a ramp on Perdido Bay off Lillian hwy that will be done someyear in the future even though the County already bought the land. 
The shame to me is the cost we paid at Galvez and the other ramps that got redone after the oil spill with no real improvements for millions of dollars. 
Waterfront property isnt cheap that I know of and the waterfront land the State and Feds have is off the table except for kayaks and paddleboards. Thats the land we should target.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

dockmaster said:


> So everyone wants more ramps, but we went thru that drill a few years ago with the big Zero...... most people on Bayous dont want a "public" boat ramp on "their" waterway.
> We have a half done deal for a ramp on Perdido Bay off Lillian hwy that will be done someyear in the future even though the County already bought the land.
> The shame to me is the cost we paid at Galvez and the other ramps that got redone after the oil spill with no real improvements for millions of dollars.
> Waterfront property isnt cheap that I know of and the waterfront land the State and Feds have is off the table except for kayaks and paddleboards. Thats the land we should target.


 Big zero??
What about Mahogany Mill Boat ramp?
What about the Uncle Wilson Boat ramp on Perdido River?

But I do agree that the county should go after more gulf front property.
Especially on Perdido Key.
Specifically the "vacant since Ivan ex-condo properties" sitting for sale west of the River Road beach access county "park".


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

LibertyCall said:


> 1. There has been a noticable uptick in complaints from citizens about charter captains using the publicly-funded boat docks of the county to operate their business. I would be interested in the experiences of others on forum.
> 
> 2. We have built a couple new ramps in the last couple years wit BP money. Do we have enough public ramps and iff not, what parts of the County should be a priority?


1. Charter Boat Captains service the Hospitality Business of this area. Most of their customers are out-of-towners, here for a short time. We need to keep in mind the tourism dollars that Charter Boat Captains help to draw to this area and/or provide another activity for those tourists. Those customers spend allot of money on their vacations, from lodging to shopping to eateries, and yes, to Charter Fishing. We must cherish this service provided to the Hospitality Business, and work to protect and enhance it.

2. We have an ample amount of ramps in this area, providing access to all parts of our water systems. Parking is the main issue at every ramp. Of course, we could always use more ramps. I just spent a week on Lake Lanier in the beginning of the summer. That place has a huge amount of ramps for a relatively small area of water.

I know this isn't your area Doug, but is appears Pensacola Beach could use a good ramp. And yes, I know, it will be hard to keep it "dredged" if you will. Case in point, the two on P-Beach have no water depth. Shoreline takes allot of pressure from boat access to P-beach.


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## Cobiacatcher (Sep 30, 2007)

banana tom, i know of the launch near bob sykes, where is the 2nd launch? i live out there and i use the one by bob sykes all the time to launch a 14' grizzly jon boat.

a launch in little sabine somewhere would be ideal. deeper water and wouldnt have to dredge it all the time. but there is NO PARKING ANYWHERE ON THE DAMN BEACH


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## H2OMARK (Oct 2, 2007)

Chad Barden said:


> banana tom, i know of the launch near bob sykes, where is the 2nd launch? i live out there and i use the one by bob sykes all the time to launch a 14' grizzly jon boat.
> 
> a launch in little sabine somewhere would be ideal. deeper water and wouldnt have to dredge it all the time. but there is NO PARKING ANYWHERE ON THE DAMN BEACH


 17th street; Shoreline; foot of the Bridge by the hotels just coming into Gulf Breeze


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

Chad Barden said:


> banana tom, i know of the launch near bob sykes, where is the 2nd launch? i live out there and i use the one by bob sykes all the time to launch a 14' grizzly jon boat.


If you are talking about Pensacola Beach, there is also a ramp across from Park West (Chicken Bone Beach). Of course, it is so shallow, it is almost none functional.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Hum mm, think that one across from chicken bone is gone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cobiacatcher (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes i was referring to the beach, I dont think the launch at chicken bone is not there anymore. theres a fence along side the parking lot. 

Ive lived here forever, so i know about all the other launches in the area, i just thought there may have been another on the beach.

the one by Sykes, is a PITA due to the overwhelming amount of ignorant people


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

Listed as "Park West Canoe & Kayak Launch" on FWC website.
https://public.myfwc.com/LE/boatramp/public/Ramp.aspx?FacilityID=ES51421CB&Name=Park+West+Canoe+%26+Kayak+Launch

But that info is from 2012 and there is no mention of it on Escambia's website list of ramps.

As the FWC describes it, you could still launch there if you carry it into the water.


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

706Z said:


> Hum mm, think that one across from chicken bone is gone.


Well, now that you mention it, I have not been there for many years.
Last I remember was watching a truck back into the water trying to get small boat to float


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

used to be a launch ramp on the beach behind the Union 76 Station....... pretty steep bastard too......


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## Runned Over II (Aug 9, 2016)

No problem with them using it, but dumping cleaned fish carcasses at the boat launch, should be a big no no.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Runned Over II said:


> but dumping cleaned fish carcasses at the boat launch, should be a big no no.


But then the sharks and gators would have to resort to eating those dumbasses swimming in the launch lane. Wait a minute....you're on to something.:whistling:


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

dockmaster said:


> So everyone wants more ramps, but we went thru that drill a few years ago with the big Zero...... most people on Bayous dont want a "public" boat ramp on "their" waterway..


I've seen this happening on a river in Mississippi I fish a couple of times a year. As more and more riverfront cabin getaways are built the wealthy non-local owners organized to fence off the ramps at road bridges that the public has been using for a hundred years .... and the State is letting them get away with it by refusing to do anything about it.


(These ramps are technically on the State road right-of-ways and only minimally maintained. ... mostly they are used for jon boats and canoes.)


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