# Why? Swords



## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

How come nobody has any love for swordfish in any of these billfish tournaments? Old timers, did swords used to be a category back in the day? I could have sworn just as recent as 2 years ago, swords were a category in the International. Maybe it was white marlin open, I can't remember. I seem to remember Fully Involved having a 200 something. I can MAYBE understand why they wouldn't want them to be counted in tag and release. But seeing as how a tournament makes 10% off any bet to begin with, why wouldn't they want more money to come in?


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## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

It's a pr move. Sort of like sharks are sacred now


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## cody&ryand (Oct 3, 2007)

Swords were a category last year in the pensacola international I believe only one was weighed but didn't make the tournament minimum


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

It was a category this year in the international as well. Though none were weighed


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## cody&ryand (Oct 3, 2007)

Tobiwan said:


> It was a category this year in the international as well. Though none were weighed


I wasn't able to participate in the tournament because I am out of town for work his post just made me think there wasn't a category sorry for the confusion


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

I can tell you that we don't usually bother fishing for them in these tournaments and thats because of one reason, fatigue. After spending the day before leaving busting butt to get everything just right to leave and then staying up all night rolling out. Then putting lines in at 5:45am and clearing grass, fishing, climbing towers the entire day usually for 12+ hours in 90+ degree heat. At the end of the day all anybody wants is a shower, a steak, maybe a cocktail, and then some sleep. Nobody wants to mess with swordfishing lol


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## team_A_II (Mar 31, 2009)

Tobiwan said:


> I can tell you that we don't usually bother fishing for them in these tournaments and thats because of one reason, fatigue. After spending the day before leaving busting butt to get everything just right to leave and then staying up all night rolling out. Then putting lines in at 5:45am and clearing grass, fishing, climbing towers the entire day usually for 12+ hours in 90+ degree heat. At the end of the day all anybody wants is a shower, a steak, maybe a cocktail, and then some sleep. Nobody wants to mess with swordfishing lol


Which is exactly why it should be a category again; to separate the teams who bust their ass the entire time from the weekend warriors. The guys who fish hard enough and long enough to tag swords around the clock deserve the extra points


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## recess (Oct 8, 2007)

team_A_II said:


> Which is exactly why it should be a category again; to separate the teams who bust their ass the entire time from the weekend warriors. The guys who fish hard enough and long enough to tag swords around the clock deserve the extra points


I actually sent the question in to put a 100 points on a released sword or points for weight but was told it's a bycatch and it wasn't fair against the "trollers" . I feel battle wagons with unlimited rangeand being able to leave from any port isn't fair but it's gonna stop me from trying. One other reason is there is no prize money just prizes. I personally feel a swordfish is stronger harder fighting fish than any other fish on the board .


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## team_A_II (Mar 31, 2009)

Not to mention a lot more white and blue marlin where raised/caught/seen over this past weekend judging by reports than swordfish caught and released. How is it not fair to the trollers? Its not like everybody is going out and murdering the swordfish left and right, very few crews are consistently able to produce a sword bite trip after trip.


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

We used to put baits out at night and we have caught swords and I guess we would probably be motivated enough to do it again if it gave points. 

It was a category but none were weighed, where were all these hardcore sworders?


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

team_A_II said:


> Which is exactly why it should be a category again; to separate the teams who bust their ass the entire time from the weekend warriors. The guys who fish hard enough and long enough to tag swords around the clock deserve the extra points


Agreed. It's not for everyone. I can totally reason with the fatigue thing. A few years ago when I was fishing tournaments heavy, I wouldn't sleep from around 530 the first morning we could fish, until we pulled in the last line and started hauling ass towards the barn, where I would then crash until I heard the RPMS change. But at the same time, that's also where a bigger crew (8 members or so) comes in handy. Couple guys sleep during the day, and are fresh at night to relieve the guys who have been up for awhile.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

recess said:


> I feel battle wagons with unlimited rangeand being able to leave from any port isn't fair but it's gonna stop me from trying.


What isn't fair about having a battle wagon?


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

recess said:


> One other reason is there is no prize money just prizes.


And as mentioned before, that is what I do not understand. These tournaments make money. I have no idea how much. But you figure with some of these bigger tournaments, if there is 1.6 million up for grabs, and the tournament makes 10% of that, that is $160,000. Yes, I know they have overhead. I just don't see how adding a swordfish division costs money, by ANY means though. There are enough guys around here that consistently catch them at night, and then the few that can also catch them during the day, that you think there would be some competition.


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## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

My theory is its the romance of trolling, working hard, versus drifting hardly working. Ask a seasoned pro what he prefers he most likely with say the thrill of the chase or in this case the thrill of the troll, watching the fish crash the spread. He will also probably refer to sword fishing as bottom fishing and that has no action to it. Never been swording but looking forward to it, not a finer fish to eat in my opinion.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

tbaxl said:


> My theory is its the romance of trolling, working hard, versus drifting hardly working. Ask a seasoned pro what he prefers he most likely with say the thrill of the chase or in this case the thrill of the troll, watching the fish crash the spread. He will also probably refer to sword fishing as bottom fishing and that has no action to it. Never been swording but looking forward to it, not a finer fish to eat in my opinion.


Is that why trolling is SOOOOO effective in some of the latest reports on here? I digress. Let's stay on topic here. It's apples to oranges, as 99% of people are going to target swords at night. A 200# sword will drown a 200# blue marlin, in my opinion.


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## Xiphius (Oct 10, 2007)

Used to qualify swords for release points at BayPoint it was depressing looking at 20-50# fish bleeding from the gills and getting 100 cr pts. seemes when you find em they can be plentiful. We we 7-9 three years ago but all were juvies


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

Wether a sword or a blue is stronger is irrelevant. It WAS a category in both of the big tournaments we fished this year. One was brought in on Memorial Day and none were brought in the international. Idk why this is but I'd guess ppl tend to forget about them when none are being brought in. 

IMO it should be a category as a meat fish but tag and release idk.

A 200lb sword may drown a 200lb marlin but he won't drown an 800lb marlin and my point is that I think it's the glory of catching that giant marlin. You most likely won't see a sword anywhere close to that big.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

I just wish we could keep a consistent swordfish tournament here. Have a smaller entry fee if need be to encourage more participants and keep plenty of cash options for those who want to go big. It doesn't need to be right smack in the middle of the tourney season like they've been in the past. That in itself has killed the majority of their participation


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## team_A_II (Mar 31, 2009)

tbaxl said:


> My theory is its the romance of trolling, working hard, versus drifting hardly working. Ask a seasoned pro what he prefers he most likely with say the thrill of the chase or in this case the thrill of the troll, watching the fish crash the spread. He will also probably refer to sword fishing as bottom fishing and that has no action to it. Never been swording but looking forward to it, not a finer fish to eat in my opinion.


"Drifting, hardly working." "Never been swording but looking forward to it" 

Yea dude we can tell. I see the point you were trying to make but comparing swording to marlin trolling on the same plane of effort is moot. They are two different techniques for two different species but dragging and snaggin with lures in many ways requires much less effort than successfully and consistently catching, and releasing or landing swords on every trip out. If it truly were just "blue water catfishing" as some have called it then why are some crews catching swords on nearly every trip and others striking out time after time. Same goes for marlin fishing, some crews or constantly raising fish while others keep posting "reports" that end end... "gee cant wait to catch my first marlin". Those guys are usually the ones with the least knowledge and catch rates yet are the ones chiming in the most about how to do something (see teaser thread from a few days ago). 

Not to get off topic, point is you cant compare strawberries to giraffes. So in short, they should bring back swordfish categories for release points.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Lol, I have called it "Bluewater cat fishing" on many occasions as have many other sword lovers. The reason I say it is to encourage folks to try it.

Less work though? Not in my sword fishing routine


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Xiphius said:


> Used to qualify swords for release points at BayPoint it was depressing looking at 20-50# fish bleeding from the gills and getting 100 cr pts. seemes when you find em they can be plentiful. We we 7-9 three years ago but all were juvies


Naturally the solution there is to make the minimum maybe around 60 inches, which is almost always a 100# fish. I agree, 48 inches is tiny.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Tobiwan said:


> It WAS a category in both of the big tournaments we fished this year. One was brought in on Memorial Day and none were brought in the international.


Which were what? International and what? MBGFC does NOT recognize swords. They just brought that one in to weigh on certified scales because they knew it was state record size calibre fish.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Chris V said:


> I just wish we could keep a consistent swordfish tournament here. Have a smaller entry fee if need be to encourage more participants and keep plenty of cash options for those who want to go big. It doesn't need to be right smack in the middle of the tourney season like they've been in the past. That in itself has killed the majority of their participation


I was hoping you would chime in on this thread. Maybe even a 3 or 4 leg swordfish series or something; perhaps a month long tournament like Texas has (wicked winter or something Go search 2coolfishing.com for more info). Lord knows there are enough people out there trying for them as evidenced by reports on this forum and tackle shop talk. I am sure most of the OB charter boats would also be interested in fishing a month long (or maybe even summer long) tournament. Similar to the Deep Sea Rodeo (DI?), where all anglers can buy a ticket? I don't know, just spitballing ideas here.

It is a billfish, it is DEFINITELY a sportfish, and I'm just a little perplexed as to why they are shunned. While I know some of the larger sportfishers spend their nights running in from great distances offshore to fish closer on the second day, there are also plenty of boats that fish 6-10 people (center consoles, too!) and could have guys running lines at night (and currently do, for tuna). If someone started consistently tagging 5 a night, then I can definitely understand the argument as to not wanting them part of the catch and release category. Or perhaps have them half the value of an unidentified billfish, so that someone can not win T&R with all swords.

In Cajun Canyons a few summers back, there was a boat (Pass It On, I believe) that had an outstanding tournament overall, with 5 blue marlin releases if my memory serves me correctly, but also tallied up like 7 swords that first night to secure a nice paycheque and 1st place T&R.

Maybe someone from PBGFC or MBGFC can chime in here with what is hopefully a SOUND explanation as to why no swords are recognized. I just don't buy the "no interest" argument. The Billfish Foundation would support any tournament that also promotes swordfish conservation. And if you're going to look at it from the money aspect, there is money to be won from an added calcutta, and there is money to be made for the tournament coordinators from the 10% take on all bets.


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

Captain Woody Woods said:


> Which were what? International and what? MBGFC does NOT recognize swords. They just brought that one in to weigh on certified scales because they knew it was state record size calibre fish.


Oh then I was mistaken I thought it was a category. It was in the international


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Chris V said:


> Less work though? Not in my sword fishing routine


Bingo. And there is the difference between someone who occasionally catches swords and someone who catches them on just about every trip.


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## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

Captain Woody Woods said:


> Bingo. And there is the difference between someone who occasionally catches swords and someone who catches them on just about every trip.


I don't do a lot of a swording but I'd guess it's like every other type of sport fishing. It takes effort, experience, knowledge, and time to catch them.


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## Capt. Alex Pinney (Jan 23, 2008)

I don't care at all if tournaments have them as a kill division. If you don't want to fish for them , don't bet that category . But 100 % believe they should not be considered in catch and release category in tournaments. Cause one guy will sit at the spur catch 8 - 15 pound swords and that's it and beats the guy who caught two blues or something. That's why the tournaments did away with them in c&r. We don't fish for them when tournament fishing cause we are usually traveling to a different location or just to tired from fishing all day.


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

I agree with Alex. I don't think they should be a catch and release "points" fish. Make a minimum 55" kill size and have cash options 

I think another reason I wouldn't like to see the catch and release is there would never be an agreement reached on an appropriate point format.


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## team_A_II (Mar 31, 2009)

Capt. Alex Pinney said:


> I don't care at all if tournaments have them as a kill division. If you don't want to fish for them , don't bet that category . But 100 % believe they should not be considered in catch and release category in tournaments. Cause one guy will sit at the spur catch 8 - 15 pound swords and that's it and beats the guy who caught two blues or something. That's why the tournaments did away with them in c&r. We don't fish for them when tournament fishing cause we are usually traveling to a different location or just to tired from fishing all day.


Valid point Alex... Kill division for a side Calcutta actually makes more sense than tag and release. I see your point: if they were valued the same in catch and release points then true somebody like me could tally up just as many points as you guys who put in the time, money, and effort to go the distance for blues far across the board. Leveling the playing field would take a lot of the big players out of the game and the big tournaments would surely loose some of their gusto. 

I would have to agree with Alex, definitely bring back sword divisions but as a separate division from the marlin tag and release and kill categorizes. Encourage tagging points so people don't bring small fish back to hang.


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## Capt. Alex Pinney (Jan 23, 2008)

Also , most of the boats fishing the tournaments are no where near "swordfish grounds" . Most are fishing to deep of waters . I like catching swordfish , but I don't like it when I'm on a 4 week tournament grind and need sleep!


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## recess (Oct 8, 2007)

Tobiwan said:


> We used to put baits out at night and we have caught swords and I guess we would probably be motivated enough to do it again if it gave points.
> 
> It was a category but none were weighed, where were all these hardcore, sworders?


Right here!! Just chased the the elusive marlin during the international , can't win with a sword!


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## recess (Oct 8, 2007)

Captain Woody Woods said:


> What isn't fair about having a battle wagon?


I said fair from leaving any port at which the tourney is put on . But I mean the range to be able to fish off port aransas from pensacola . Battle wagons are fair as anyone else during fishing and it's anyone's game.


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## TCAT (Oct 9, 2007)

Speaking only as member of PBGFC...the hate is not with the club...it's with the vast majority of anglers. At this years international, swordfish (kill) was a category both in the awards and Calcutta. To my knowledge only 3 boats placed bets (all in $250 cat) in the Calcutta. That tells you right there that most are not interested. 

I f*&king love swordfishing. It runs in my veins and there is nothing more I rather do than soak squid, drink beer, star gaze, and see who is the best at catching flyers and squid in the lights. However, when fishing a tournament where Blue Marlin is the money fish then all my attention is focused on that one species. The remedy...a dedicated sword tournament....the problem...not enough willing participants & $$ to make it worth the effort.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

Capt. Alex Pinney said:


> I don't care at all if tournaments have them as a kill division. If you don't want to fish for them , don't bet that category . But 100 % believe they should not be considered in catch and release category in tournaments. Cause one guy will sit at the spur catch 8 - 15 pound swords and that's it and beats the guy who caught two blues or something. That's why the tournaments did away with them in c&r. We don't fish for them when tournament fishing cause we are usually traveling to a different location or just to tired from fishing all day.


Not gonna argue with you there.


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## Captain Woody Woods (Oct 2, 2007)

TCAT said:


> Speaking only as member of PBGFC...the hate is not with the club...it's with the vast majority of anglers. At this years international, swordfish (kill) was a category both in the awards and Calcutta. To my knowledge only 3 boats placed bets (all in $250 cat) in the Calcutta. That tells you right there that most are not interested.


Or maybe, because it is the only tournament (except for maybe white marlin open) with a sword division, it could afford to be marketed greater, as most people don't even consider looking for them on the calcutta sheet, knowing there is only one, maybe two tournaments out of the major 9 or so, that have sword as an option. Pretty easy to glance right over, I would imagine. I know most of your major battle wagons are going to be running at night, both nights. But it has got to be an attractive option for the boats fishing spur, steps area, and those who don't have the legs to go far, but can definitely reach water depths of 1200-1800 or so.


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## team_A_II (Mar 31, 2009)

I think we can all agree a swordfish tournament is needed ASAP for our region. I for one would fish it in a heart beat and bring money to the table. If anybody has contact with the guys who used to put them on, start twisting some arms. Think Legendary hosted the Destin one right?


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## Chris V (Oct 18, 2007)

Yes, legendary hosted it with Erik Anderson as the tourney director. We fished it the first year and had a good time. They had to cancel the next year due to the oil spill and the third year we didn't fish it because the dates changed and wouldn't work for me or the boat owner. If someone would pick it back up and pick dates outside of the main season and keep those dates, I imagine it would be successful enough


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