# "ATTENTION" VERY IMPORTANT INFO!!!!!



## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

POSTED BELOW ARE TWO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FOR THE FWC MEETING IN SANDESTIN IN FEBUARY. MAKE PLANS TO ATTEND AND VOICE YOUR CONCERNS OR SIT HOME AND WATCH TV. IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD style="WIDTH: 87px" vAlign=top><P class=BodyBold>Time:</TD><TD vAlign=top><P class=Body>8:30 a.m.</TD></TR><TR><TD style="WIDTH: 87px" vAlign=top><P class=BodyBold>Dates:</TD><TD vAlign=top><P class=Body>February 4-5, 2009</TD></TR><TR><TD style="WIDTH: 87px" vAlign=top><P class=BodyBold>Place:</TD><TD vAlign=top><P class=Body>Sandestin Golf and Beach Resort
9300 Emerald Coast Parkway West
Sandestin, FL 32550
Phone: 850-267-8000
www.sandestin.com <P class=Body>Items Requiring Action 
<LI>Final Rules
<LI>Red Snapper Consistency Rules (Red Snapper Presentation)
<LI>68B-14.0038, Recreational Red Snapper Season - The proposed rule would amend the Commission's Reef Fish Rule to conform the recreational red snapper fishing season in state waters with the recreational red snapper fishing season in federally-managed waters of the Gulf of Mexico. The proposed rule would change the recreational red snapper fishing season in state waters from April 15 through October 31 to June 1 through September 30. </LI>
</LI><LI>Issues (Flounder Review & Discussion Presentation)
<LI>Review and discussion of flounder life history, stock status and requests to <U>increase the</U> <U>bycatch allowance of flounder in shrimp</U> <U>trawls</U>,<U> reduce the recreational flounder bag</U> <U>limit, and prohibit the use of gigs to harvest</U> <U>flounder. </U></LI>
</LI><LI><U>hey evryone</U>, take a minute to read the highlited areas, it will give you a better idea of what they( the staff) are trying to do. does anyone know who "THE STAFF" are??</LI>
</LI>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## Garbo (Oct 2, 2007)

No Flounder Gigging......... That don't even sound right.....

Dang.


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## reel-crazzzy (Sep 7, 2008)

i guess they just what us to quit fishing all together . im sure they"ll be a good crowd at this one.:hoppingmad:hoppingmad:hoppingmad


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

*Increase* the bycatch limit but *decrease* the recreational limit on flounder???:doh Eliminate gigging??:doh:doh:hoppingmad:hoppingmad


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## fishFEEDER9697 (Sep 30, 2007)

bump

this is getting rediculous.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

:doh


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

Alright. It's time to circle the wagons! We need to get every person we can manage to attend this meeting and sign up for time to speak. The last time we rolled into Panama City on a bus, one of the Commissioners was overheard saying, "Oh God, here comes those Pensacola boys." They know us, and they expect us to show. We need not disappoint them. I will be heading over, and I will be willing to give anyone a ride that wants to go. NO EXCUSES. JUST SHOW UP. IF YOU DON'T CARE ENOUGH TO SHOW UP TO A VITAL MEETING LIKE THIS IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD THEN YOU WILL REAP THE CONSEQUENCES!


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## nb&twil (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Garbo (1/1/2009)*No Flounder Gigging......... That don't even sound right.....
> 
> 
> 
> Dang.


They're trying to do the same thing over here in Texas. Unfortunately, it's looking like it will go through. The proposition will ban gigging of flounder from Oct.1 through Nov. 30.


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

This is absolutely, positively, asinine. I for one plan on telling the FWC Commissioners what I think of this. We cannot simply lay down and take this.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

historically sportsmen are the ones who protect the stocks of game, if this continues it will be us against them to the point of pouching and possiable violence. why is their data so flawed? why cant they work with us instead of against us to achieve the common goal of bountiful stocks which is what we all want.


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## jewfish (Dec 4, 2007)

> *alanbarck (1/1/2009)**Increase* the bycatch limit but *decrease* the recreational limit on flounder???


That is freaking retarded. Basically allowing shrimpers to kill more baby flounder that haven't reproducedand making up for it by decreasing the number of adult flounder thatrecreational anglers can take.

What a bunch of crap.:banghead

I also posted this over on FSFF.


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## FLYBOY (Oct 3, 2007)

Cobe Killer or Rich or whoever is heading to the meeting,

Unfortunately I can not attend the meeting (I'm in Iraq) but are ya'll getting a petition together or a letter or anything? Basically is there anything that those of us who can't attend(and it better be a damn good reason why you can't attend) do to help? EVERYONE needs to show up to this meeting, we showed up in force in Panama City and at least got our concerned heard if you fish at all you should be there!!! No Gigging...does this include spearfishing? WTF, have they lost their minds....:banghead:banghead:banghead Please post if anyone is getting apetition together.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Definitely will be there for this one. What moron single-handedly came up with this proposal? Does anyone know? How does one sign up to speak?


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## snakeman14 (Apr 17, 2008)

Thishit a nerve.WhenI get out of school in the summer, flounder fishing basically becomes my life, its something I look forward to every year and have many great memories on the water catching flounder. 

I have been giggin plenty of times, dont care to much for it. And I do think a "gigging season" should be made. Every year more and more people get into gigging and every year the average size flounder becomes smaller and smaller. But I would rather see all yall giggers on the water anynight before I see a damn shrimp boat gettin a a bigger share of the juvenile flounder.

Im only sixteen and I dont get my liscence till right before school lets out. but what can i do to help?


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *FLYBOY (1/1/2009)*Cobe Killer or Rich or whoever is heading to the meeting,
> 
> Unfortunately I can not attend the meeting (I'm in Iraq) but are ya'll getting a petition together or a letter or anything? Basically is there anything that those of us who can't attend(and it better be a damn good reason why you can't attend) do to help? EVERYONE needs to show up to this meeting, we showed up in force in Panama City and at least got our concerned heard if you fish at all you should be there!!! No Gigging...does this include spearfishing? WTF, have they lost their minds....:banghead:banghead:banghead Please post if anyone is getting apetition together.


Being in Iraq is no excuse to miss this meeting. I'm sure this is important enough to qualify for emergency leave. oke 

Yes, gigging would have to include spearing and bow fishing.

Stay safe.


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## Murphy's Law (Sep 27, 2007)

> *jewfish (1/1/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *alanbarck (1/1/2009)**Increase* the bycatch limit but *decrease* the recreational limit on flounder???
> ...




That*IS* F-ing retarded :hoppingmad :hoppingmad :hoppingmad The shrimpers are the ones hurting the flounder stock, Not the rec. giggers.


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Did anyoneread the "Flounder Review & Discussion Presentation"? FWC staff do not recommend increasing allowable bycatch for flounder, and they recommend continued evaluation of the gigging issue. The snapperquestion is the same as last year: either conform to federal rules or have the season shortened in federal waters. Last season, political pressure on FWC resulted in a loss of 56 fishing days in federal waters. FL and TX alsoaffected fishing in AL, MS, and LA, all with 3 mile state waters. If you again favora shorter seasonin federal waters (1 June - 5 Aug), give 'em hell.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

I will be there to support flounder fishing and a state snapper season from Apr 15th to Oct 31st. Put whatever spin you want to on ithuntley, sorry it doesn't work out for the elite few charter captains you are buddies with.


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## reelhappy (Oct 31, 2007)

i will be there too! and will bring as many members of the PRFA as i can get to go with me. you can count on our support. if you have not joined one of the clubs this year would be a good time to. show your support help us, help you! come stand united as a group we have a better chance to save something to catch. 

scot


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## Redfish (Nov 9, 2007)

This Is My Opinion, If The State of Florida only Cares about the commercial fisherman, than us recreational fisherman need to stop buying license,Let the commercial fisherman Pay for the Ramp fees and The upkeep on Ramps and everything else, I am Not Blaming the commercial fisherman,but the State of Florida only seem to care about them, They need to look at HOW MUCH MONEY THEY WILL LOSE IF WE STOP BUYING LICENSE,, Plus All The Money They Will lose fromOut of state License, If This Keeps Up I will buyA out of State Ala License and only Fish There The HELL WITH FLORIDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nonono


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *FLYBOY (1/1/2009)*Cobe Killer or Rich or whoever is heading to the meeting,
> 
> Unfortunately I can not attend the meeting (I'm in Iraq) but are ya'll getting a petition together or a letter or anything? Basically is there anything that those of us who can't attend(and it better be a damn good reason why you can't attend) do to help? EVERYONE needs to show up to this meeting, we showed up in force in Panama City and at least got our concerned heard if you fish at all you should be there!!! No Gigging...does this include spearfishing? WTF, have they lost their minds....:banghead:banghead:banghead Please post if anyone is getting apetition together.


can you borrow the gun ship for a weekend? I'm sure the Airforce wouldn't mind. It's for a worthy cause. :usaflag


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

mr. huntley iNEVER understand your logic.

if the federal wants to hold us hostage, screw emdouble state days or quota. 4 snappers march 1st till december 31st. back at ya mr. federally.


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

I will be there. Outlawing gigging is freaking ridiculous.



> *Redfish (1/1/2009)*This Is My Opinion, If The State of Florida only Cares about the commercial fisherman, than us recreational fisherman need to stop buying license,Let the commercial fisherman Pay for the Ramp fees and The upkeep on Ramps and everything else, I am Not Blaming the commercial fisherman,but the State of Florida only seem to care about them, They need to look at HOW MUCH MONEY THEY WILL LOSE IF WE STOP BUYING LICENSE,, Plus All The Money They Will lose fromOut of state License, If This Keeps Up I will buyA out of State Ala License and only Fish There The HELL WITH FLORIDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nonono


If they ban flounder gigging for recreationals, they will ban us commercial from doing it too. We don't all run a shrimp boat. 

They've done everything they can to regulate commercial fishing out of existence. Have you ever tried to catch shrimp with a TED and a BRD on your net? It's damn near impossible. Mark my words, there will be a moratorium on RS endorsements in the near future.


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## Dylan (Apr 15, 2008)

This is absolutley ridculous......Looks like a "vacation" to Panama City is coming up...and lets not forget this is the same idiot who questions John Mccain's character..This guy must of been a flounder or a snapper in previous life..



> *lbhuntley (1/1/2009)*Did anyoneread the "Flounder Review & Discussion Presentation"? FWC staff do not recommend increasing allowable bycatch for flounder, and they recommend continued evaluation of the gigging issue. The snapperquestion is the same as last year: either conform to federal rules or have the season shortened in federal waters. Last season, political pressure on FWC resulted in a loss of 56 fishing days in federal waters. FL and TX alsoaffected fishing in AL, MS, and LA, all with 3 mile state waters. If you again favora shorter seasonin federal waters (1 June - 5 Aug), give 'em hell.


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## Death From Above (Sep 28, 2007)

Which of you yankees are "making recommendations to staff". I'm moving to Mississippi.:hoppingmad:hoppingmad


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up on the meeting Cliff. I'll try and make it but wont know for sure til I see the work schedule. Banning gigging is down right Un-American!


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)




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## snakeman14 (Apr 17, 2008)

Hmm first off my dad happens to be one of those "FWC staff". He may not be directly involed in this flounder issue nor are many other FWC workers.Infact this is the first he has heard about this issue. Second most of the FWC staff do like to fish/hunt its one reason they do what they do. Furthermore I personally know a few of them who love to go gigging. Third knowing a little bit about these kinds things and how the FWC worksI garentee this came about from some head guy who has his own agenda. And if I had to guess he is probably connected to the shrimping industry.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

> *snakeman14 (1/1/2009)*Hmm first off my dad happens to be one of those "FWC staff". He may not be directly involed in this flounder issue nor are many other FWC workers.Infact this is the first he has heard about this issue. Second most of the FWC staff do like to fish/hunt its one reason they do what they do. Furthermore I personally know a few of them who love to go gigging. Third knowing a little bit about these kinds things and how the FWC worksI garentee this came about from some head guy who has his own agenda. And if I had to guess he is probably connected to the shrimping industry.


Pardon my political incorrectness. Lest I incur the wrath of anyone even remotely connected with the FWC, permit me to rephrase my last..............


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

that was funny sh!t!!!!!


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

I sent an email to Robert Turpin, Keith Wilkins, all of the Commissioners, the Mayor, the Governor, and many other elected and appointed officials asking for their support in this matter. I reminded them that no one from Escambia County represented us at the Panama City meeting, and that we expect something different from them this time. Please take the time to email all of your representatives and let them know how important it is that they attend to represent us.


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Spearfisher, what are you protesting? If I read the agenda correctly, FWC does not support an increase inthe flounder bycatch, and they simply want to continue to study flounder gigging. Iassume you support a repeat of last year's snapper season: longer state, shorter federal.The vast majority of snapper and habitatarein federalwaters. Why would you again want a shorter federal season?


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Lbhuntley,

I asked this last time this topic came up and you would not/did not answer me.

Do YOU think there are less snapper now than there was 15 years ago?


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

> *spearfisher (1/2/2009)*I sent an email to Robert Turpin, Keith Wilkins, all of the Commissioners, the Mayor, the Governor, and many other elected and appointed officials asking for their support in this matter. I reminded them that no one from Escambia County represented us at the Panama City meeting, and that we expect something different from them this time. Please take the time to email all of your representatives and let them know how important it is that they attend to represent us.


Last time Robert said he couldn't go to Panama City because he works for the county and he couldn't represent the county if they didn't send him. Yet....Robert went to Las Vegas last November to represent the USS Oriskany reefing project at which he gave a presentation as the head pf the project for the county, and the county didn't send him.We were told he was "acting on his own as a private citizen". His actions directly resulted in us losing business. I expect to see him at this upcoming meeting supporting our recreational fishery.


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

Don't count on it. I can't think of a single time Robert Turpin did anything to support us recreational fishermen. If I'm wrong I don't mind being corrected. And I don't want to hear about how he single handedly got us the Oriskany.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

ibhuntly, are you as blind and misled as you portray? if we do not go andstand up for ourselves they will SHORTEN the rec. fishing season in STATE waters too. yes i saw that the STAFF doesn't support the increase in the bycatch of the shrimp trawlers BUT they DO want to "DISCUSS" the closing of floundering during the winter months AND stop GIGGING AND limit hook and line catches to 4 fish per day from 10 fish per day. if noone shows up to voice their concerns on these matters then THEY WILL DO WHATEVER THEY PLEASE. SO YOU JUST STAY HOME WATCH TV,EAT CHIPS AND LET US BIG BOYS HANDLE THIS. THANK YOU. 

p.s. no need to reply because i don't believe that there is anything intelligent that can possibly come from your head!!!!!!:looser


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## User1265 (Oct 15, 2007)

When is the next RFRA meeting because me and my friend want to join in on this. We can't keep letting the government dictate what we do. I have been a member of this forum for a year now. I feel guilty for not stepping up to the plate before now but we are pissed about the new proposed regs. He and I want to become members of the RFRA and join in on this fight. This is BS and we want to do our part.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

To Cobe Killer, Rich, Scottand all,

Ithink getting a group together to go to the meetingis good thing to do; I had already planned on attending to address the commission and request a little morelatitude on spending our "*B*oater *I*mprovement *F*unds! *Contacting Keith Wilkins*, is the best way to start if you want Turpin to attend the meeting, I would like Robt to also help push through an expansion to our BIF program, and have asked him about that.

I have made contact with the FWC through my sources on this subjectand await a response. WhenI get it, I will post hereon the forum.

To me, it does not appear that Staff supports the changes on Flounder, but I will find out for sure.

With regard to reef fish species, it will take a show of force if you want their attention on that, theres a whole lot of politics and pressuregoing here with the Feds!

Side Note, if you're wanting help from the County and Turpin on this matter, publically bashing him will probably not encourage his support. Contact your Commissioner, Keith Wilkins and Bob McCoughlin, in a respectful manner and ask for help!

Now, when will the weather get nice so we can enjoy some fishing,I am tired of this dingy cloud cover!

Happy fishing!


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Cobe Killer, last year theFL and TX big boy's approach cost GOM recreational snapper fishermen 56 days in federal waters.What is their plan this year?Many of us would be interested in the big boy'ssolutions to overfishing.Might help ifthey locate some reputable marine scientists tosupporttheir positions. Loud voices, ranting and ravingand profanityrarely accomplish much. Let's see,President Bush, Senator Magnuson and Stevens, the congress,NOAA, NMFS, Dr Crabtree, Gulf Council andFWCare managing the resource with best science and statistical methods. Ifthe big boyscan improve the science,they mightlisten. Go get 'em, big boys.


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

Jeff, 

I did contact Keith, along with all of the County Commissioners, the Mayor, the Governor,several others in the news media and other civic minded citizens. I have not, nor will you see me bashing Robert in this thread. I think that it is important that he as the Chief of Marine Resources let the citizens of Escambia County know where he stands on these issues. I think that it is equally important to have representation at these meetings from sources other than just recreational fishermen. 

lbhuntley,

I'm not going to waste my time. If you have spent one minute on this forum you know where I stand on recreational fishing issues and artificial reefing in our area. I'm not going to argue with you.


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## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

When you read the staff report on flounder you see that Bill Sharp is the author and he states that the gig issue was brought to the staff by concerned recreational anglers. Another issue is that gigging is generally done at night and part of the problem with current rec data collection is that few, if any, dockside interviews are conducted at night which the staff is looking at as a potential under sampling problem. They also state that according to all available info that the flounder fishery appears stable.

This gives you severalarguments to have the current regs on flounder remain status quo. 1st, the staff says the fishery appears stable and a stock assessment is being considered for 2010. Why act now, wait until the next stock assessment is done. 2nd who recommended to the staff that gigging was a problem???? In other fisheries I have seen this "who",insinuatedto be many recreational anglers, to be only 1 or 2 people who generally are from an enviro group such as peta, humane society, etc trying to stop a practice that does not have a problem. Find out how many people expressed a concern over gigging as the issue could be shown to be a non issue. 3rd, how many flounder, what %, is landed by recs or com by gigging? Find out how much of an issue this really is and if the staff has no info on this request that the info be found out before trying to fix something that may not be broke.

On the red snapper issue, fl and tx are blamed for the early closure of red snapper but, and a big but, is how many days will the fed red snapper season be if all states comply? The nmfs cannot give you an answer on this today and it is doubtful they will be able too by the feb fwc meeting. It appears tx will tell them they do not intend to change tx law so if tx does not comply, how many days do we get. On top of all this, the fwc recommendation is a 6-1 to 9-30 season which was allegedly based on the feds saying that was the season they would give. The only for sure certain fact for the 09 red snapper season is that it will open on 6-1 in the eez. No one can tell you at this time how many days is will be open, what the bag limit will be, or what the size limit will be. How does anyone make a judgement of what to do or support with this type of info?

FL and TX are both being held hostage on this issue. There are some for-hire owners and operators who have encouraged the fwc to comply with the feds. There are other for-hire owners and operators who do not support this. The critical part of this will be what do the rest of the people in the state want. They need to let the commissoners know. The commissioners have been very supportive of and listen to the constituents before they make decisions based on staff recommendations. Everyone needs to provide their recommendation to the commissioners.


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *bob II (1/4/2009)*When you read the staff report on flounder you see that Bill Sharp is the author and he states that the gig issue was brought to the staff by concerned recreational anglers. Another issue is that gigging is generally done at night and part of the problem with current rec data collection is that few, if any, dockside interviews are conducted at night which the staff is looking at as a potential under sampling problem. They also state that according to all available info that the flounder fishery appears stable.
> 
> This gives you severalarguments to have the current regs on flounder remain status quo. 1st, the staff says the fishery appears stable and a stock assessment is being considered for 2010. Why act now, wait until the next stock assessment is done. 2nd who recommended to the staff that gigging was a problem???? In other fisheries I have seen this "who",insinuatedto be many recreational anglers, to be only 1 or 2 people who generally are from an enviro group such as peta, humane society, etc trying to stop a practice that does not have a problem. Find out how many people expressed a concern over gigging as the issue could be shown to be a non issue. 3rd, how many flounder, what %, is landed by recs or com by gigging? Find out how much of an issue this really is and if the staff has no info on this request that the info be found out before trying to fix something that may not be broke.
> 
> ...


BobII ,

Is 100% correct if the state fishery follows suit with the federal rules which have not been announced as of yet,you have no idea whats instore for the recreational season for 2009 the feds can start 6/1/09 but they can also close 6/2/09. If you can in anyway be present for this meeting you need to be there.

With all the SOS and other crap that is going on in the federal waters you will be way ahead if you stand up and fight for your state waters it may be the only fishing you have left . As stated many times before we are soon going to loose our natural bottom areas so you may want to push for extensive state water habitat as well, besides last February they said they were going to do that.Its time to hold them accountable for some of these promises.



Also some of you that are in the related fishing industry may want to get a little more involved if you thought 2008 was tough wait till 2009.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

hey rich, your doing a great job,as always, with contacting our officials. i'm going to see if i can get a meeting w/ our commissioners before feb. to get an idea of where each of them stand. we'll see what happens. valentino gave me an invite to his office, so i'm going to take him up on it.


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

outstanding Cliff. As you know since you were there, Valentino was one of the Comm. who stood up for us at the ACOE meeting. Hopefully he will continue with the fisheries issues. Thanks for working hard on this Cliff.

Rich


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

stll waiting on valentino to call me. some took a couple extra days off. will post when i talk to him.


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Beg your pardon Capt Paul, wehave a very good idea concerning the length of the 09 recreational season. The commercial quota for 09 has been established and is the same as last year which means rec will have 2.45 million lbs. The season will most likely be the same as last year, 1 June to 30 Sept ifALL states comply. If they don't, the federal season will be shortened like last year. Aren'tthe vast majority of the public wrecks in federal waters? Why would you advocate a shorter federal season and longer state season? Do you have that many private wrecks in state waters? Weekend fishermen, you need to pay attention. If you want a 1 June to 5 Aug federal season, support a FL and TXextended season. If you are interested in a longer federal season, support FWC'sposition. Maybe I missed something. Capt, why do you support a shorter federal season? By the way, have you contacted Dr Shipp and Cowan or any othermarine scientist to appear on Gulf Coast Outdoors?


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

ibhuntly, you just don't have a clue about what is going on do you? THE FEDS ARE WRONG ABOUT THE RS IN THE GOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT BACK AND LET THEM WALK ALL OVER US WITH DATA THAT THEY THEMSELVES ADMIT TO BEING FLAWED. THEY NEED TO COME TO TERMS THAT THEY ARE WRONG AND LISTEN TO REASON ABOUT THE SITUATION NOT JUST THREATEN US WITH CLOSURES TO MAKE US CONFORM. WE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT THIS AFFECTS AND WE WILL FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN FIGHT WITH TO MAKE THIS RIGHT. IF YOU WANT TO SIT ON YOUR ASS AND DO NOTHING, THEN GO RIGHT AHEAD, BUT DON'T BOTHER US WITH YOUR CANDYASS WINING. LIKE I SAID BEFORE STAY OUT OF WHAT YOU CAN'T HANDLE AND LET US THAT CAN HANDLE THE PRESSURE DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.:Flipbird

TO EVERYONE ELSE THAT READS BESIDES HUNTLY I APPOLOGIZE FOR MY CHOICE OF SOME WORDS, BUT THIS GUY PISSTH ME OFF!


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/6/2009)*Beg your pardon Capt Paul, wehave a very good idea concerning the length of the 09 recreational season. The commercial quota for 09 has been established and is the same as last year which means rec will have 2.45 million lbs. <U>*The season will most likely be the same as last year, 1 June to 30 Sept ifALL states comply.*</U> *<U>If they don't, the federal season will be shortened like last year</U>*. Aren'tthe vast majority of the public wrecks in federal waters? Why would you advocate a shorter federal season and longer state season? Do you have that many private wrecks in state waters? Weekend fishermen, you need to pay attention. If you want a 1 June to 5 Aug federal season, support a FL and TXextended season. If you are interested in a longer federal season, support FWC'sposition. Maybe I missed something. Capt, why do you support a shorter federal season? By the way, have you contacted Dr Shipp and Cowan or any othermarine scientist to appear on Gulf Coast Outdoors?


I clearly dont want a shorter federal season I want it all back they way it was before all of this bull shit of faulty data came out.

It's about correcting a problem that clearly doesn't exist, or maybe you and your Dr. Cowan believe it does because you both couldnt catch a Red Snapper in a f**king bucket.

What I'm interested in is the truth and fixing the real issues, essential fish habitat,and the 20 other species of bottom fish that we are all whipping out , while throwing back a thousand red snapper a day in the process, because a few ignorant people cant see or admit that they are fu**ing wrong.No there are not populations of snapper in south florida like on the Gulf Coast but so what we dont have yellow tail like they do and never will.

Maybe you should give us your share of the pie and I'll see if I can get a marina and west marine to let you use my account so you can get your fishing and boating supplies at cost. Also I dont believe that commercial fishing is a part time job by any means otherwise the other 85% of the population that you are suppose to be providing fish for that dont fish for themselves would just starve to death!<P align=center>*<A name=Benefits>Benefits</A>*

The primary benefit I realize from commercial fishing is the operation of a part-time business. Due to *"Luke's* *Fishing Company"* I am able to

- purchase items for the boat tax free
- buy items for the boat wholesale
- purchase fuel, ice and bait at wholesale
- deduct business costs from federal income tax

*Return to table of contents*<HR><P align=center>*<A name=Conclusion>Conclusion</A>*

Commercial fishing is at best a "part-time business" on the Gulf coast. To be successful, four ingredients are necessary:

- love of fishing
- a retirement income
- a very special and understanding wife
- a family interested in fishing

I enjoy all four.

*Return to table of contents*<P align=left>*Return* to beginning of *"Luke's Fishing Company"

[email protected]*<P align=left><P align=left>_<U>*OH YEAH TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION I DO HAVE PLENTY OF STATE WATER HABITAT TO FISH ON.*</U>_<P align=left>_<U>*HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY*</U>_


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

Now thats the Capt.Paul I know. Straight forward and to the point! :bowdown


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## Horse in around (Jan 1, 2008)

Here is a question. Why not get a State or Federal Judge to step in and rule that the data is flawed and make them do a new study?

I sure there are some judges out there that like to fish.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

He's baaaaack. Good to see ya Paul!!


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## Strictly Bizness (Oct 2, 2007)

I hope to be able to make the meeting again this year. I definitely learned a lot from the PFFers on the bus last year. As most of you know, I spend most of my time on the water chasing king mackerel.I usuallyonly catch a snapper whenI am jigging for bait. BUT, I want to support my fellow fishing brethren and stop the ignorant politics going on with this snapper issue.I agree with Capt. Paul, the heart of this issue comes from flawed data and it must be made clear to the "Staff" that they aremisinformed!! I will also be joing the RFRA this year as well.


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

LB'S HOME PAGE EXCERT'S

The areas I primarily fish are between compass headings of 170 to 240 degrees, and in depths of 150 to 240 feet. The bottom consists of limestone rock with coral growth,a primary habitat for mingo snapper. The "Barbara K" is equipped with both GPS and loran. Over the years I have collected approximately 3,000 productive fishing locations. Some are considered public, some private. A useful site to review *<U>Escambia County public reef locations is </U>**[url]http://fcn.state.fl.us/fwc/marine/ar/ar-escambia.htm*[/url]*<U>.</U>* I generally fish two days and one night but the total time required is four days. One day to prepare, two days to fish, and one day to sell the catch, fuel and clean the boat. It is all but impossible to make a living commercial fishing on the Gulf coast. Most commercial fishermen are like myself and depend on retirement income. The number of full-time commercial fishermen is rapidly declining.

This is a classic example of someone taking a public resource and using it for personal gain.

And before you say it I absolutely do not fish public artificial reefs if you ever see my boat on a public reef it is for them to look at . I am not and will not fish them because I feel that I am doing this for a living and do not want to take away from what the tax payers of Escambia County have paid for.

When you look at your self in the mirror ask your self what have I done to benifit the fishery in any way at all other than take for personal gain. ( oh yeah and feed those 85% of non fishing americans PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LARRY STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW BEST ABOUT THE FISHERY. <U>*NOTHING AND KEEP READING ALL THAT PRODUCTIVE BS THAT YOU THRIVE ON.*</U>


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

"Central to the Ocean Action Plan and the Magnuson-Stevens Act reauthorization bill is a greater use of science in the fishery management process." 

NMFS is probably not going to use Capt Paul and Cobe Killers arguments to increase the TAC. Gents, unless you can produce better science youare fighting the "windmill." Charter is attempting toimprove the sciencewith their SOS proposal. Everyone benefits when overfishing ends andred snapperrecover - recreational, charter and commercial. The TAC for everyonegoes up! The American people, who own the resource, have mandated via their elected officials that Magnuson-Stevenswill beimplemented outside of politics.

Weekend red snapper fishermen at the Feb, FWC meeting, you will havean opportunitytoprovide input indetermining the length of the 09 federal season. June 1 - Sept 30 if FL and TX comply withNMFSor June 1 to Aug 5 if they don't.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

LBHUNTLEY,

For the THIRD time I will ask you this question in hopes of a response. 

Do YOU think there are less snapper now than there were 15-20 years ago?


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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

The OLE Regulations. Science???? How Bout Field Surveys. :usaflag:usaflag


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## Sea Monkey (Dec 26, 2008)

The OLE Regulations. Let me add Field Surveys with Fishermen NOT Scientist!!:usaflag:usaflag:usaflag


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

Larry,

Have you checked out the GOMARS plan developed by charter captains and rec fishermen?

Similar to the SOS without the seperation of TAC.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

i just got off the phone with comm. valentino's aid, dean kirschner, and he is going to talk with valentino tonite about the meeting in san destin. he will get a date when they will be able to meet with a couple of us to discuss the issue. i will hear from him thursday and will let you know how many people will be able to attend. he also said that he MIGHT pull turpin in on the discussion?. i'll keep you posted.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

lbhunlty, do you not realize that the very "SCIENCE" that they are using is what has caused the situation that we are in now??? if it were not for the flaws in their "SCIENCE" and their lack of willingness to work with the people that know what is going on, we would not be in these "DIRESTRAIGHTS" that <U>they think</U> that we are in. instead of doing the proper research over the past 25 or 30 years they just took the words of tree hugg'n, turtle kiss'n scientist that don't want anyone fishing to start with. WE( the recreational fishermen) are sick and tired of the lies, misleading, and MADE-UP NUMBERS and other information that is being used to control the rec. fishermen. WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS LYING DOWN ANY MORE, COUNT ON IT!!!!!!!


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

As Joe Z mentioned - The GOMARS proposal is being presented by a group of charter boat and private rec fisherman. Worth reading if you want to look at alternatives.



You can read about it at http://www.conservationfishermen.com/

You can provide comment about it to [email protected].



I've attached some .pdf files with info on it that was forwarded to me.



Additionally if you are a PRFA member you may want to go to the next monthly meeting where discussion of what the clubs position will be on the new Snapper season. My (third hand info) understanding is that it was discussed at the Escambia MAC and the charter captains present lobbied for Robert Turpin to go representing the county and to indicate the county's (or at least the Escamba MAC) position is that it favors abiding by the NMFS recommended season for state waters. I understand the thinking was to avoid a repeat of last years extremely short federal season with the Feds imposing the stricter federal limits on charter boats even in state waters since they are fishing with a federal reef fish permit (or something of that sort).


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## need2fish (Oct 2, 2007)

> Charter is attempting to improve the science with their SOS proposal.




While I certainly appreciate the thought - providing additional data into a broken methodology or process is not improving the science....the science being a proxy for the process. Nothing in the SOS plan speaks to how the improved inputs should be used or what should change in the existng process.


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Cobe Killer and Sea Monkey, what do you base your conclusions on?Please refer me to some scientific studies.Water Hazard,IhopeNMFSis notbasing the health of the snapper on what lbhuntley catches. JoeZ, it looks like the GOMARS proposal is based on sound science. Interesting that it originated in OrangeBeach. Al, MS and LA were held hostage by FL and TX in 08. They didn't have much choice but to take the lead with 3 mile state waters. 

I don't believe NMFS is conspiring against anyone. They simply want to implement Magnuson-Stevens and rebuild the red snapper stock. Capt Paul, I pay county, state and federaltaxes just like you do and probably have as much right as anyone to fish public wrecks. I don't believewe would begrudge you if you were caught on a public wreck. Capt, it's public paid byOUR taxes!!!


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

lbhuntley, do you even fish???


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

lbhuntly, only a fool argues with an idiot,i'm not a fool, therefore, i'm through arguing with you. good day sir.


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

BUMP TO CAP. RED

LOOKS LIKE COLEY AND GANG HAVE A NEW MOUTH TO SPEAK FOR THEM, AT LEAST HE CAN MAKE SENTENCES. AS FOR HIM SPEAKING FOR ME, NO THANKS AND NO THANKS TO TRY AND MAKE ME FEEL GUILTY FOR PUSHING THE FWC TO KEEP OUR SEASON IN STATE WATERS. IT'S ASCININE TO THINK SOME OF YOU GUY'S REALLY BELIEVE THAT IS WHY CRABTREE SHORTENED THE FED SEASON LAST YEAR AND IF YOU THINK IT WILL EXTEND THIS SEASON IF WE *BOW DOWN AND KISS HIS ASS THIS YEAR, YOU ARE TRULEY A SAD BUNCH.*

YOU SHOULD BE PUSHING THE GOVERNOR TO PROSECUTE THE GUY FOR ABUSING HIS POSITION, HE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO THREATEN ANY AGENCY (FWC) FOR THE DECISION'S THEY MAKE BASED ON THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE .THE SAME ONES THAT WANT TO TAKE OUR FISH AWAY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE PUTTING THE SPINS ON EVERYTHING AND MAKING THE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE TO BLAME FOR THE SHORTENED FED SEASON. CRABTREE IS THE PROBLEM AND THE REASON FOR THIS, NOBODY ELSE. 

FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT THINK WE NEED TO GET IN LINE WITH CRABBY, THEN YOU HAVE TO THINK THE FISHERY IS IN TROUBLE, OTHERWISE WHY WOULD YOU SECOND GUESS KEEPING THE SEASON WE HAVE?

OBVIOUSLY CRABTREE ISN'T CONVINCED THE FISHERY IS IN DIRE TROUBLE EITHER, OTHERWISE WHY DIDN'T HE REDUCE THE TAC????????????? THINK ABOUT THAT ONE. NOW IF HE DIDN'T REDUCE THE TAC, HOW CAN HE KEEP SHORTENING OUR SEASON??????????? WHERE'S THE JUSTIFICATION??????? JUST BECAUSE WE WON'T BOWN DOWN TO HIM IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH A REASON, SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE HE HAS TO JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS AND THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE THAT HE IS ACCOUNTABLE TO FOR HIS ACTIONS. 

LOOKS LIKE CRABTREE HAS TOLD THESE CO-CONSPIRERS WHAT THE SEASON WILL BE JUNE 1 TO AUG 5 UNLESS WE *PUCKER UP!* WHO ARE THEY TO PRIVEY TO THIS INFORMATION WHEN IT HASN'T BEEN PUBLISHED ANYWHERE THAT I'VE SEEN, HOW ABOUT YOU? THINK ABOUT IT, WHY DOES THIS GROUP KNOW EVERYTHING CRABBY DOING? WAKE UP GUYS, THEY'RE HIS BITCHES (DOGS). DON'T WANT TO START USING PROFANITY.

AS FOR ME, IAIN'T AND NEVER WILL BE AN ASS KISSER. THE STAND HAS TO BE MADE NOW AND I'M NOT WAVERING ON MY POSITION, NOT EVEN ONE FISH. I MAKE THIS KNOWN TO THE FWC AND THE COUNCIL ON A DAILY BASIS AND WILL ON JAN 28 IN MISSISSIPPI AND FEB 4 IN DESTIN. AND YES, I HAVE CONTACTED THE GOVERNOR ABOUT THE ABUSE OF POSITION AND THREATING THE FWC AND FLORIDA FISHERMEN, IF I GET A RESPONSE, I'LL GLADLY POST IT. 

THE QUESTION IS, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?


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## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

Once again the BS flies around. Let me set the record straight for some of it. First, the pending 2009 season. The commercial season is year round from now on since they operate under an IFQ. They receive 51% of the total TAC regardless if it is % million pounds or 100 million pounds. This will remain unless/until the council changes the regulation.

The pending recreational season will start on June 1. That is all that is for sure certain at this moment and will most likely be the only thing for sure when the FWC meets in destin. No one know at this time how many days long it will be, the bag limit we will have or the size limit we will have. It is assumed that the bag and size will remain status quo but that could change. Dr. Crabtree stated at the last council meeting that it is possible there could be no red snapper rec season this year so you can assume that they could close it as soon as it opens. It is assumed that TX will remain status quo for their state waters as there is no indication they intend to change. The FWC proposal was based on asuming that the fed season would be 6-1 thru 9-30 because it was implied by fwc staff that the federal register notice about the pending season included that period but in fact it did not. It states that the season will open June 1 and that is it.

The GOMARS proposal is not a product of CCGF, but is a product of several people, for-hire and private rec from different areas of the Gulf. The CCGF board voted to support the GOMARS proposal and offered to list the proposal on the CCGF web site. It was not developed in Orange Beach. To date there are several associations and individuals in FL, AL, MS, and TX supporting the proposal. A list of supporters will be provided soon for all to see as it grows daily since the proposal became public this past Monday. The GOMARS proposal incorporates the concept of electronic logbooks along with other data collection tools just as the SOS plan but differs in that we do not believe a VMS produces any scientific data that is necessary for real time, accountable data andwe do not believe that sector separation is necessary for all anglers to be accountable. We believe we can all work together for the benefit of the resource and the users. The proposal will be discussed at the next council meeting the last week of this month which will be in Bay St. Louis, MS.

I hope this clarifies some of the issues being discussed on this thread.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

rfydaddy,THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANK YOU, I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELVE.

BOB, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, WE'RE BEHIND YOU AND THE OTHERS HELPING OUT WITH THE PROPOSAL. THANK YOU...:clap


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/7/2009)*Water Hazard,IhopeNMFSis notbasing the health of the snapper on what lbhuntley catches.


Answer the question LBhuntley..its a YES or NO answer. Do YOU think there are less snapper now than there were 15-20 years ago?


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Water Hazard (1/8/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *lbhuntley (1/7/2009)*Water Hazard,IhopeNMFSis notbasing the health of the snapper on what lbhuntley catches.
> ...




HE'S WAITING ON SOMEONE TO TELL HIM HOW TO ANSWER IT.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

good morning everyone. just bumping up the post. got to keep this in everyone's mind so's not to be forgotten. this is to important an issue to let get away. i know it is still 4 weeksaway but this gives people time to ask to get off from work and make plans to attend. asit gets closer we will start making arrangements for mass transportation so that we won't have so many cars to park. thanks have a blessed day.


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## CAPT. PAUL REDMAN (Oct 3, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/7/2009)*Cobe Killer and Sea Monkey, what do you base your conclusions on?Please refer me to some scientific studies.Water Hazard,IhopeNMFSis notbasing the health of the snapper on what lbhuntley catches. JoeZ, it looks like the GOMARS proposal is based on sound science. Interesting that it originated in OrangeBeach. Al, MS and LA were held hostage by FL and TX in 08. They didn't have much choice but to take the lead with 3 mile state waters.
> 
> I don't believe NMFS is conspiring against anyone. They simply want to implement Magnuson-Stevens and rebuild the red snapper stock.<U> Capt Paul, I pay county, state and federaltaxes just like you do and probably have as much right as anyone to fish public wrecks. I don't believewe would begrudge you if you were caught on a public wreck. Capt, it's public paid byOUR taxes!!!


</U>

<U></U>

<U>I believe that stuff was put out there for public recreation not personal gain.</U>


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## Inn Deep (Oct 3, 2007)

I've sat on the sidelines long enough. I plan to start to become more involved. I am working on a small group to go to the san destin meeting. When should we be there? Should we plan to stay both day? Is there somewhere I can find the entire meeting agenda? We are planning on getting a room. Is anyone else staying the night? If so where? How should I prepare for this meeting?


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

just under three weeks to the meeting.:bump


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Inn Deep (1/15/2009)*I've sat on the sidelines long enough. I plan to start to become more involved. I am working on a small group to go to the san destin meeting. When should we be there? Should we plan to stay both day? Is there somewhere I can find the entire meeting agenda? We are planning on getting a room. Is anyone else staying the night? If so where? How should I prepare for this meeting?


The most important day to be there will be Feb. 5. You can find the agenda here http://myfwc.com/commission/2009/Feb09/index.htm. To prepare for the meeting it is just important that you have a well thoughtout statement for the commissioners. You will have 3 minutes to speak somake it count. I think everybody else is driving over that morning.


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Spearfisher and Cobe Killer,how will you defend your positions?


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/18/2009)*Spearfisher and Cobe Killer,how will you defend your positions?


Huntley, I don't have much of a personalstake in this argument becauseI don't go offshore much anymore. But,I don't see why either Spearfisher or Cobe Killer need to defend anything. They have opinions different from yours, and from reading the posts on this subject your opinion to say the least is nottoo popular.<P align=center>You kind of sound likeA *ONEMAN BAND* at a*KISS CONCERT*!<P align=center>*A little out of place!*<P align=center>







--









The science used to make these determinations is dramticallyflawed and out of date;I believe the FWC knows this but can't do much about it. Fighting the Feds has probably lead to threats of reduced funding for many fishery related Stateissues. Some people might call that encouragement, others would us the word "*extortion*"!

I alsogather that you like to fish Public Reefs commercially; whileI guess it's not illegal, it sure seems pretty unneighborly. As one who has voted for deployment of Public Reefs using local grants or BIF funds,I can assure you that our intent wasfor them to be used by our *recreational* fishingcommunity,*NOT* Commercial Fishermen that are free to fish most of the year and not restricted to recreational seasons.

I can assure that our upcoming efforts tosupport more Public Reefs in the Gulf are also not intended for that purpose. I will however thank you for giving me the thought to see if there is a way to restrict the Commercial Fishery from Public Reefs.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

hey bat pirate, well put.:clap i don't reply to huntly anymore, i don't like waisting my time. he won't even answer a simple yes or no question that has been ask him more than once. se e ya in destin!


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/18/2009)*Spearfisher and Cobe Killer,how will you defend your positions?


Now that we know that you haven't left this thread I have two (or maybe three)questions for you. We'll see if you have the character to answer them honestly:

1.) What exactly is your position on this issue?

2.) What exactly is your interest in this issue (business or otherwise?)

3.) Do you believe that there are less Red Snapper in the Gulf of Mexico now than there were 15 years ago?

I will be glad to lay out my position on this issue AGAIN if you would like, but I assume that you have heard it before numerous times. Let me know if you really need to hear it again.

Rich


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

> *spearfisher (1/18/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *lbhuntley (1/18/2009)*Spearfisher and Cobe Killer,how will you defend your positions?
> ...


Before LB has the chance, I'll point out that you asked 3 questions not 2. And LB is not going to answer ANY of them so it doesn't matter. He's too busy cowering because the French are mad at us.


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## grouper1963 (Feb 28, 2008)

> *lbhuntley (1/7/2009)*Cobe Killer and Sea Monkey, what do you base your conclusions on?Please refer me to some scientific studies.Water Hazard,IhopeNMFSis notbasing the health of the snapper on what lbhuntley catches. JoeZ, it looks like the GOMARS proposal is based on sound science. Interesting that it originated in OrangeBeach. Al, MS and LA were held hostage by FL and TX in 08. They didn't have much choice but to take the lead with 3 mile state waters.
> 
> I don't believe NMFS is conspiring against anyone. They simply want to implement Magnuson-Stevens and rebuild the red snapper stock. Capt Paul, I pay county, state and federaltaxes just like you do and probably have as much right as anyone to fish public wrecks. I don't believewe would begrudge you if you were caught on a public wreck. Capt, it's public paid byOUR taxes!!!


Here's an interesting article

http://www.floridasportsman.com/casts/080701/


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

Excellent Article. Thanks for posting!!


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## lbhuntley (Oct 6, 2007)

Gents, you're missing my point. Right or wrong NMFS and FWC arrived at their positions via science, good or bad. If you don't have some facts to counter their positions your arguments may not have much effect. Ranting and raving, I deserve to catch more fish, there are a lot of fish argumentsmay not makemuch difference. Someoneindicated youonly have 3 minutes.Ibelievethe agendastates that FWCis interested incollecting additionaldata onflounder gigging, and they are opposed to increasing flounder in shrimp by catch. IfFloridaand Texas don't conformthe federal snapper season will be shortened again. I was interested inyour argumentsopposingthese positions.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

lbhuntley,

Answer the damn question. Do you think there are less snapper than there were 15 years ago???? Holy crap. You are worse than a freaking politician. You evade the question only to ask another one that everyone has already answered for you. I don't understand why you even come on here. It's obvious that your opinion/stanceon the issue is shared by 0.0000000000% of the folks on here. You get no where. You evade the questions asked of you and continue with the samecrap in every post you make.You are a broken record.

Bad science is not science. If you have taken any science class you should know and realize what I am about to tell you. When you arrive at a result due to a study/test/experiment, your results must be able to be duplicated by another scientistand more tests/experiments in order to be considered true. If your results results can not be repeated/duplicated, you must go back to the drawing board. You can not consider bad science as an endresult for anything. 

But I can already type your next post on here for you if you want me to.


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/18/2009)*Gents, you're missing my point. Right or wrong NMFS and FWC arrived at their positions via science, good or bad. If you don't have some facts to counter their positions your arguments may not have much effect. Ranting and raving, I deserve to catch more fish, there are a lot of fish argumentsmay not makemuch difference. Someoneindicated youonly have 3 minutes.Ibelievethe agendastates that FWCis interested incollecting additionaldata onflounder gigging, and they are opposed to increasing flounder in shrimp by catch. IfFloridaand Texas don't conformthe federal snapper season will be shortened again. I was interested inyour argumentsopposingthese positions.


HE IS OBVIOUSLY WORKING WITH THE FED'S, WANTS TO BE THE ONE TO TELL THEM WHAT OUR ARGUMENTS WILL BE AT THE MEETINGS. MIGHT BE CRABTREE IN DISGUISE.


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *lbhuntley (1/18/2009)*Gents, you're missing my point. Right or wrong NMFS and FWC arrived at their positions via science, good or bad. If you don't have some facts to counter their positions your arguments may not have much effect. Ranting and raving, I deserve to catch more fish, there are a lot of fish argumentsmay not makemuch difference. Someoneindicated youonly have 3 minutes.Ibelievethe agendastates that FWCis interested incollecting additionaldata onflounder gigging, and they are opposed to increasing flounder in shrimp by catch. IfFloridaand Texas don't conformthe federal snapper season will be shortened again. I was interested inyour argumentsopposingthese positions.


No Mr. Huntley, you are missing the point. Commercial fishermen (like you)oppose recreational fishermen (like me) in everything they do because the feds structure it that way. They tell you that if I catch a Red Snapper then your allowable catch gets reduced by one. Therefore they have you fighting against me for a resource that is not scarce. The feds create an artificial scarcity. In doing so they force you to fight their battle to get me to stop catching the most abundant species in the Gulf hands down. Once you come to realize that you and every other commercial fishermen that oppose recreational fishermen catching Red Snapper are nothing more than a pawn of the federal government then we can have an honest discussion. It is painfully obvious that myself and most everyone else feels as though the feds data is flawed. They are not only unable to track catch data, they are unable, and fundementally unwilling to restructure their data collection methods to more acurately monitor catch #'s. They force citizens to come up with plans to monitor catch data so that they don't lose their resource to a lack of "data." They do not believe that artificial reefs produce more Snapper. They believe that Red Snapper congregate at reefs for social reasons and other asinine ideas. Arguing with them (and consequently you) is like arguing with someone who still believes the sun revolves around the earth (and in case you missed that whole Ptolemy thing...it doesn't.) Until you can be honest with everyone here and tell them that the only reason you support the federal regulations is because you think it will allow you to catch more Red Snapper, science be damned, then I don't think we can continue to discuss this issue with you. 

Oh, and by the way. My three questions are still unanswered:

1.) What exactly is your position on this issue?

2.) What exactly is your interest in this issue (business or otherwise?)

3.) Do you believe that there are less Red Snapper in the Gulf of Mexico now than there were 15 years ago?


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

I got another question for lbhuntley:

Do you have an IFQ? If so, how much is it?


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

Richand guys, I think Cobe Killer is right, after seeing how this unfolded yesterday, the best thing to do is *ignore Huntley* and just don't repsond to him. I made a mistake by doing so; He brings nothing sensibleto the plate here one way or the other.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

Lets just watch the Video and let that speak for itself. 



http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/?action=view&current=VTS_01_1-1.flv


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

Bobby,

that picture is worth a thousand words and one big :Flipbird


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

I take it the finger was directed at lbhuntley?



That's how we defend it sucker. WITH real data. Video don't lie.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

well said bob!! :clap well said!! i'd like a copy of that video. thanks


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *X-Shark (1/19/2009)*I take it the finger was directed at lbhuntley?
> 
> That's how we defend it sucker. WITH real data. Video don't lie.


You got it Bobby! Notice we still haven't gotten an anwer from the infamous lbhuntley...and I assume that we never will. I wish that people like him would just come out and say that they are commercial fishermen, they support further restriction of recreational anglers because they think that it will allow them to catch more fish, and they support the "science" because it supports their agenda. If they were honest that's what they would say.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

I wouldn't sweat him. He will not be back. I answered his deal with a video.



He's just a putt's that wants to stir shit with nothing to say that is worth a damn.



He can be a mouthpiece all day long and as you guys see he may as well have told it to a lamp post.



This place seems to attract people like that that come out of the woodwork. You all know what else comes out of the woodwork too. And they ain't pretty.
















Enough said!


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

just another bump to keep this on everyones mind. write it down on your calender so that you don't forget to show up!!! THIS IS TO IMPORTANT TO MISS!!!!!!!!!


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## Gone Fishin' Too (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm Going!!!!!!!!


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## King Crab (Dec 28, 2008)

I think rediculas proposals like that allow them to get something instead of nothing. You know its like wanting $100.00 for something& getting $50.00. There throwing anything out to catch something . Kinda like fishing. They dont care how pissed off we get. Thats what they want, us pissed off. Then they get something less for a consalation. Plus we spend time & money going where ever to do there meetings. We dont know the basis of there agendas, Who or what makes there decisions. Good luck. Im backing you / us!


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## baitboy (Jan 28, 2009)

WOWWWWWW realy stickin it to us last summer gas was pushin $ 4.00 a gallon with two snapper per person what the hell more do they want :hoppingmad:hoppingmad:hoppingmad:banghead


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

we want what is right.....they want it all!!!!!those of you that can't go with us you can still help out with a <U>prayer for favor with the council.</U> it works. thanks


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

:bump this thursday!!!!!!!!! evryone needs to be there that possibly can be!!! thanks


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## Candy (Jan 6, 2008)

If any Recreational fishermen are planning to sitat home and count on the Charter boys to save their season, think again.

Due to a new rule, the Charter boys that hold a Federal Reef Fish permit are forced to follow Federal Water rules...even in State waters! (Is that fair? I don't think so, butthat doesn't matter any more, it's a done deal.)

Recreational Fishermen if you want to be able to catch any Red Snapper this year, you need to go to the FWC meeting this Thursday and request the State of FLorida to keep our Red Snapper Season in State waters.

We also need to request that they appoint someone to act as an advocate for the Panhandle in the dealings with the ACOE. We need more permitted area and we need to begin massively permitting STATE waters for reef building. 

I'll see you there!

p.s. Please don't forget to thank the FWC for saving our season last year!


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

hey candy, good to see you post. haven't heard from you in a while. esc. co. rec. fishermen will be there thursday with some county officials this time in support of keeping same season and requesting to up the bag limit back to 4 fish per day. we need to help the FWC have a back bone to stand up to the NMFS. we'll see ya there!!!!!!!!!!


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

I think the rule that is making the for hire boats follow fed rules because of the fed permit should be the next fight. For everyone that doesn't understand why I'm against a snapper stamp, the same reason the for hires have to follow the feds in state water. Once you buy a fed snapper stamp, we will have the same rule applied to us.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

frydaddy, we're not asking for a FEDERAL STAMP. we want a STATE SNAPPER STAMP, to go on our STATE fishing license,so that we can dispute the number of saltwater fishermen that the feds are saying are fishing for red sanpperin the state of florida and using that INCORRECT DATA to say that we are overfishing. this can be done quickly and will pay for itself through the fee, and in just ONE SEASON the stae can show the nmfs EXACTLY how many fishermen in the great state of florida are actually fishing for red snappa. i hope this makes it clearer as to what our intentions are with the RS stamp. thanks.


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## The Duke (Jun 27, 2008)

Everyone needs to go to this meeting!!! It is not a matter of an excuse, it is a vital need to go and be heard. If it is at all possible--go. Get a ride, drive, call someone, hitchhike, whatever. BUT Go!! Take the time off and Go.


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## JoeZ (Sep 30, 2007)

> *frydaddy (2/3/2009)*I think the rule that is making the for hire boats follow fed rules because of the fed permit should be the next fight. For everyone that doesn't understand why I'm against a snapper stamp, the same reason the for hires have to follow the feds in state water. Once you buy a fed snapper stamp, we will have the same rule applied to us.


Why not make it a state stamp then? Basically a possession stamp. Can't get to federal water without running through state, right? That and this would ensure at least some of the money was psent relatively close to home. Not idaho.



OOPS, just read Cliff's post.

What he said.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Howdy,

Yes - State Stamp and NOT Federal...look at what they did with the federal reef fish permit holders recently by forcing them to adopt federal regs while fishing in state waters. STATES' RIGHTS! The states should manage everything pertaining to their state waters.

All the best,

Tom Hilton


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## Captain Jake Adams (Oct 3, 2007)

I'll be there


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

good morning all you concerned citizens of florida. the day is here to fight for your right to fish in the gulf of mexico for red snapper and your right to gig flounder. it's cold out side but it's time to heat things up in san destin. see ya there!!!!!!!!


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