# buyer beware



## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Interesting thread involving a dealership.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/614571-new-boat-deal-gone-bad.html

Post 291 indicates boat is local...


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## Bravo87 (Jun 19, 2014)

I'd be upset! Man is already calmer than me!


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## cody&ryand (Oct 3, 2007)

I would b livid with them


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Damn. That boat would need several thousand dollars in glass work...


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow! What I can't understand is the idiots on that thread telling him to get over it. He paid for a new boat and that's what he should be getting.
I would have to have $10k knocked off that boat after it was repaired for me to accept it. Even then I wouldn't be happy.


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## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

I would shoot up the place


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## Mike Moore (Feb 10, 2010)

Just spent over an hour reading the whole thread. Going to bed with a headache now.....lol. 

Can't say I'd do anything differently than the OP.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Yes. I wonder why the dealer would not have offered to fix it and knocked some money off the sales price?
I think I would have been happy with that as the damage looks on first glance to be superficial. 
According to post #291 it appears the boat is for sale again in the ft Walton area hopefully at a "scratch and dent" sale price.


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## PaulBoydenCustoms (Dec 3, 2008)

I was reading this yesterday


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Looks like its for sale locally now. Theres the guys Garmin 10" unit right there in the dash.

http://www.adventuremarina.com/pre_owned_detail.asp?veh=3882627&nv=y


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

This is unreal


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

I simply don't understand why issues like this are mentioned while protecting the dealer by refusing to say the name of the place. If it happened to me, you would ALL be reading the name and address of the dealer.

Also...if I've got the money to write a check for a $60,000 boat, I've got gas money to drive my ass to SC and stir up some shit IN PERSON!


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

The boat maker is in South Carolina. But the dealership appears to be local (Ft Walton)


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## panhandleslim (Jan 11, 2013)

This type of experience is all too common with boat dealers these days. They are so busy that they hire anybody and these types of damages are happening all the time. 

My question is, if they demand a deposit, why do people keep complying with their demand for the total sales price payment before pre-delivery inspection. They are asking the customer to be their financial source and obviously, there is NO TRUST between the manufacturer and the dealer. In addition, I would recommend a CONTRACTURAL, 10% retention by the buyer to take care of deficiencies. If the dealer wants a deposit, you(the buyer) should be able to HOLD something on the back-end. Transactions CAN'T just be a one-way street in favor of the dealer. 

The buyer was smart to cancel the transaction (my first thought even before I saw what he did) and the damage in that chine is more than 'superficial'. It 'can' be repaired but it should have been repaired immediately and a concession in price made to the buyer. My advice on the 'drop ship' units is to write a formal letter requesting your property and have your attorney put it on his letterhead and mail it. Stop talking on the phone, this guy (dealer) only has bad intentions and is an asshole. Give Tidewater Boats a week to get this guy in line and have your lawyer hold the letter a week. After that, move forward. He has proven what kind of intentions he has when he refused to refund your payment. Serves him right. He will have to carry that boat through the winter, at his cost, and I'm sure he is asking Tidewater to help him out with that. 

It would be interesting to contact this dealer for a quote and see if he reveals the 'damages'. I would be willing to bet my retirement that he would not. I've been through it before and when I told the dealer that I knew it had been crashed, he refused to sell it to me. Go find someone else who is oblivious. These guys are slezebags. They give used car salesmen a good name.

You are their best friend when you are considering buying but your cell phone is blocked when you have a claim.


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## PapaG399 (Jul 16, 2013)

Do yourself a favor if you boat here locally, especially if you are in the market for a boat in Ft. Walton Beach, and read the entire thread. I for one will NEVER go to this marina again for anything.


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

PapaG399 said:


> Do yourself a favor if you boat here locally, especially if you are in the market for a boat in Ft. Walton Beach, and read the entire thread. I for one will NEVER go to this marina again for anything.


Nope not even for a quart of oil.


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## gameaholic (Oct 1, 2007)

I almost bought a Cape Horn from them many years ago. Have never been back.


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## TeaSea (Sep 28, 2013)

when i was boat shopping earlier this year I got bad vibes just walking in the front door there. glad I went elsewhere now. btw, the dealer where I did buy my boat had it ready for inspection and sea trial before final payment


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## panhandleslim (Jan 11, 2013)

TeaSea said:


> when i was boat shopping earlier this year I got bad vibes just walking in the front door there. glad I went elsewhere now. btw, the dealer where I did buy my boat had it ready for inspection and sea trial before final payment


The way the dealer, you bought from, treated you is just 'fair business practice'. 

These other guys (Ft.Walton) have some horrible management principles in place. They could have offered the OP, anything but instead they just said, 'Oh well, SHIT HAPPENS!' and tried to jam it right up his rectum. Glad he was not a push over. 

I've heard lots of stories about this exact kind of behavior from a rather well known dealer in Gulf Shores.....recently. A delivery made in the spring and just now correcting deficiencies last week....well, still not complete.

Really bad management and it comes from the business owner and his head guys. Somebody over there needs to go back to the used car lot but he will probably give used car dealers a worse name than they already have.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

I am the guy from The Hull Truth. This is unfortunate. I joined the Pensacola Forum today to thank you all for the support.


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## Big Red (Oct 1, 2007)

Wow, 21 page thread so far.
It looks like the dealer has the boat listed for sale for $57,000.
http://www.adventuremarina.com/pre_owned_detail.asp?veh=3882627&nv=y



 Here is a post from the thread. (Page 20)

My day is made also but I bet BUTCH at "THE MARINA" is not having a good day.
$57,000 I was quoted. I let him spill his guts and then asked if the STOLEN electronics were included. He stuttered and hung up on me.
IMO.....Once that boat leaves the premisses, I would then report the electronics to authorities and just say you know where they are. New owner will be in possesion of stolen goods. Good Luck


Looks like Tidewater is going to make things right.
But I would not buy a sparkplug from this dealer.


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## PaulBoydenCustoms (Dec 3, 2008)

marksnet said:


> I am the guy from The Hull Truth. This is unfortunate. I joined the Pensacola Forum today to thank you all for the support.


Good luck buddy, hope you get it all squared away


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Really, I think I am good now. 

I am having my ex-wife (aka attorney) draft a letter to send.
Stolen property is treble damages so in the end this guy is gonna owe me another 6k unless he gets his act together.

also to the guy that said "Buyers Remorse"? Get real man I came home to a 10 year old son very upset so troll if you must but I can assure you that buyers remorse is not in my heart. 
Tidewater is committed to me being a Tidewater owner.

Thank you,
Mark


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## PapaG399 (Jul 16, 2013)

Marksnet, welcome to PFF! I for one am glad to have you here, you will be a nice addition to a great forum.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

Welcomer aboard!


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## PapaG399 (Jul 16, 2013)

chad403 said:


> Boat damage, a little buyers remorse, and realized the boat looked a lot bigger in the pictures...


Absolutely, dead wrong. Could not be more wrong. The decisions made by Marksnet clearly had nothing whatsoever to do with buyer's remorse. Moreover, since the boat was a custom build, among other things, there is zero chance the buyer backed out because "it looked bigger in pictures." He knew exactly what he wanted and spend considerable time doing the research.

So what business do you own/operate/run/manage, if any? I'd like to know, given your unsubstantiated "blame the customer" assessment of this situation, so I can avoid it too.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

marksnet said:


> Really, I think I am good now.
> 
> I am having my ex-wife (aka attorney) draft a letter to send.
> Stolen property is treble damages so in the end this guy is gonna owe me another 6k unless he gets his act together.
> ...


I will say this, if all is as stated to be true.....which seems to be the case.

You are a far better man than I am. I am impressed at the way you handled this. You didn't seem to let the emotion get the better of you and it looks like its going to work out in the end. Calmer heads prevail.

I am fairly patient but when I lose it, I lose it. The cops would be involved and I would probably be the one getting arrested.


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## fishmagician (Jun 4, 2014)

Two points he should keep in mind, (1) I'd question TD factory/sales to determine if they shipped that boat with the damage already done, probably not but their denial would tell everyone that the damage occurred at the dealer's location and he's responsible for the damage. That would be a big point if he does take it to court. (2) Ask TD if they received and installed the electronics, and check with the shipper to determine who they delivered it too. Again your in need of a chain on both the boat and the electronics. When both point at the dealer the dealer is going to take it on the chin. I think you'd be better off talking the District Attorney or the Attorney Generals Fraud Units. Best of luck.


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## tkh329 (Mar 14, 2012)

Chet88 said:


> Nope not even for a quart of oil.



Agreed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tiderider (Oct 1, 2007)

Welcome Mark to the forum. I think you were fortunate to see this jerks true colors. Good luck in your future boat buying.


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## Mike Moore (Feb 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. I think you handled the situation very well. Best of luck with the outcome.
On a side note...... I bet it sucked divorcing an attorney. ...lol.


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## cody&ryand (Oct 3, 2007)

Mike Moore said:


> Welcome to the forum. I think you handled the situation very well. Best of luck with the outcome.
> On a side note...... I bet it sucked divorcing an attorney. ...lol.



sounds like it could have been worse he is still buying a 60k boat. unless he is down grading from a 60 foot viking


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

So, are you buying a different boat from Tidewater ? What are you going to do about the electronics ?
You know, what's funny is this dealer saved himself a few thousand (or maybe not, since he fixed the boat) but how many tens or hundreds of thousands has these threads cost him in business? Not a business genius for sure.
Welcome to the forum.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

fishmagician said:


> Two points he should keep in mind, (1) I'd question TD factory/sales to determine if they shipped that boat with the damage already done, probably not but their denial would tell everyone that the damage occurred at the dealer's location and he's responsible for the damage. That would be a big point if he does take it to court. (2) Ask TD if they received and installed the electronics, and check with the shipper to determine who they delivered it too. Again your in need of a chain on both the boat and the electronics. When both point at the dealer the dealer is going to take it on the chin. I think you'd be better off talking the District Attorney or the Attorney Generals Fraud Units. Best of luck.


Hey,

I will try to respond to all scenarios/questions
The dealer admitted damaging the boat, after I found it.
Tidewater did receive the electronics from me as I had them drop shipped to the factory so the dash could be laid out exactly the best way with my approval.

Tidewater in no way is being held in my eyes responsible for what one of their dealers did in the treatment of me or my vessel.

The dealer has stolen property in hand.

I am entitled to treble damages according to the statues on the books in Florida.

I do not any longer desire to have my 1040xs machine back as all the dealer would have to do to vandalize it is place a paperclip in one of the card readers.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

To the posters.

Thank you guys for the support. I had no idea that this thread was viral. It is also on a Bass Boat forum and also the originator TheHullTruth. Over 400 replies and over 15000 views.

I would say the word is out.


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

Mark, please tell me you will take this claim to judge Judy. Please....


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## Gscuba (Jul 10, 2014)

Glad to see your experience was not a total disaster, getting your deposit and full check returned was a lesson to edgewater about disclosure, might have been twice that if they repaired and sold as NEW, you might be the new owner of the dealership.


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## WhyMe (Apr 21, 2013)

This is so simply to resolve... It sounds you got your money back for the boat, but not Garmin? If so, small claims court and let the judge decide.
After that let every forum know about the truth on what had happen.

WhyMe 
Mako My Dayo


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## fishnhuntguy (Feb 8, 2012)

*burned also*

I bought a 2007 Pointclear 18 bay from him in 2007. The motor Yamaha F150 was a 2006. Really not a big deal but I was told everything was 2007. Live and learn. But I won't do business with them again. :no:


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## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

I read about 9 pages on THT and had to skip to the end. I wouldn't accept a truck or car with damages like that, dang sure not a 60K boat. Well played!


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## tigershark (Oct 16, 2007)

Welcome aboard I hope you get things worked out. Glad you got your money back and hope you get the rest


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## Snoozer (Apr 14, 2014)

Welcome Mark! 
I've been reading your thread on THT since you posted. You did a great job protecting your interests!
I hope you get them boys fishing soon!


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

I think everyone should call and ask for $2000 off since they didn't have any cost for the electronics.


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## Cracker (May 15, 2012)

Any update on the electronics?


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## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

gotta admit, this thread kept me out of the heat for a few hours.


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Following this story with interest .... doesn't the dealer carry insurance to cover losses due to damage to boats in their possession?


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

*none*



Cracker said:


> Any update on the electronics?


To date no electronics have showed up.


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## hayden (Nov 14, 2007)

I drive by Adventure Marina everyday for work and yesterday they had all their boats positioned with sterns facing Highway 98. You can clearly see a Garmin unit still installed on that Tidewater. Whether it is your unit or the new one they claimed they ordered, who knows.


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## Capt. Mako (Aug 21, 2014)

I just finished reading THT thread. Mark, you are a gentleman given the
deplorable deceit and deception by the dealer. I probably would not have been as calm as you upon seeing the hull damage. Although new to PFF I'm
not new to boating. Kudos to you and I truly hope you get your Garmin back or otherwise reimbursed for same. I may have missed it somewhere, but did the manufacturer offer any resolution towards the Garmin? Good luck mate.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

*Electronics*



Capt. Mako said:


> I just finished reading THT thread. Mark, you are a gentleman given the
> deplorable deceit and deception by the dealer. I probably would not have been as calm as you upon seeing the hull damage. Although new to PFF I'm
> not new to boating. Kudos to you and I truly hope you get your Garmin back or otherwise reimbursed for same. I may have missed it somewhere, but did the manufacturer offer any resolution towards the Garmin? Good luck mate.



Tidewater is going above and beyond but, no they are not buying me another unit. I called and talked to the only sane one at that place today and she said they were boxing mine up to send it back to me. I gave them the name and number of a friend that lives in Destin and they are supposed to call him when the unit is ready for pickup


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## Capt. Mako (Aug 21, 2014)

:thumbsup: Great news. Sorry this whole thing has been such an ordeal for you.
And your children, too, naturally. I went on Adventure Marine site and sure
enough there is the boat as others have pointed-out. Happy this has ended I suppose the best it could have given the circumstances.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Oh yeah. It was just luck largely that I got out alive.. Financially speaking anyway. I will post pics of my new rig shortly!!!


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

fishnhuntguy said:


> I bought a 2007 Pointclear 18 bay from him in 2007. The motor Yamaha F150 was a 2006. Really not a big deal but I was told everything was 2007. Live and learn. But I won't do business with them again. :no:


Not defending the guy but that's pretty common. It may have been manufactured then but warranty, etc does not start until date it is sold and registered.


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Wharf Rat said:


> Not defending the guy but that's pretty common. It may have been manufactured then but warranty, etc does not start until date it is sold and registered.


Yamaha does not have model years. Its based on when registered or put into service. So your outboard was a 2007.

http://yamahaoutboards.com/owner-resources/FAQ/model-year-elimination


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

I wouldn't have a problem with a 2015 hull and a 2014 motor or the reverse. However, I think the marine market as a whole needs to catch up on the whole "whole story". Disclosure is everything in today's retail market.
When you buy a new vehicle. Dealers are legally required to disclose damages. Even the smallest transport damage is deemed necessary to disclose. 

It is overkill at times. Especially when it's just a bumper. That is not what the law is made for but, when one drops off the truck's top rack and hits the ground? That's what it's made for.

Boat dealers and manufacturers will only take due care of our products to the point that we demand. Consumers set the standards not the other way around.

My deal was 65k but, I would not hold it against a person if they spent 20k on a new boat and expected the same standards I did. To me, it's all relative.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Electronics in hand. 

Sending to Garmin for inspection.


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## ssrs69camaro (Aug 9, 2014)

Congrats Marksnet :thumbsup:What is the new boat,I must have missed it?


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Well it will be a Tidewater. I have to wait a few more weeks and I will post photos just as soon as she rolls in! Without damage! 

Haha, thanks!


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## DawnsKayBug (Jul 24, 2013)

What dealer is delivering the new TW? Who will you go to with warranty work?


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

DawnsKayBug said:


> What dealer is delivering the new TW? Who will you go to with warranty work?


Well, I can tell you with certainty it will not be my last dealer. I have been asked to keep it all quiet until boat is in hand so no one can queer the deal. I will give full disclosure once the boat is in my hands and no one can take it away from me somehow. Just covering my buttocks.


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## Snoozer (Apr 14, 2014)

Congrats mark! :thumbsup:


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

*My new dash*









Supposed to pick up my new rig on Thursday guys. Lets hope all goes well! Keep your fingers crossed for me and say a little prayer for safe travel and delivery of this fine specimen.

Thanks
Mark


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## rr4611 (Aug 8, 2014)

I'd be curious to know if they were asked if it had any hull damage at all at anytime what they would say.


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## rr4611 (Aug 8, 2014)

marksnet said:


> View attachment 370834
> 
> 
> Supposed to pick up my new rig on Thursday guys. Lets hope all goes well! Keep your fingers crossed for me and say a little prayer for safe travel and delivery of this fine specimen.
> ...


Glad to see this is working out for you! Enjoy the "new" ride now!


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

rr4611 said:


> I'd be curious to know if they were asked if it had any hull damage at all at anytime what they would say.


You meant the boat I almost bought? I just rode by there this weekend and didn't see it they may have sold it. I am sure they disclosed the damage hahaha! :whistling:


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

As far as the new rig

Hear no evil
See no evil
speak no evil

If it was damaged, at this point, I.do.not.want.to.know. haha!!

Really I would hope that this dealer would tell me if something were wrong.


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## rr4611 (Aug 8, 2014)

marksnet said:


> You meant the boat I almost bought? I just rode by there this weekend and didn't see it they may have sold it. I am sure they disclosed the damage hahaha! :whistling:


Yeah, I was thinking the boat you almost bought. I might have to call them from all the way up here in N. Alabama and have some fun with them inquiring into it. Ask things like, has the hull ever been scratched really bad, or, is the original Garmin unit in it, I want that EXACT one. Not one like it, but that one. I know the guy you can get it from. Ha!

I still wouldn't want it with 8K marked off of it, not from that dealer.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

rr4611 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking the boat you almost bought. I might have to call them from all the way up here in N. Alabama and have some fun with them inquiring into it. Ask things like, has the hull ever been scratched really bad, or, is the original Garmin unit in it, I want that EXACT one. Not one like it, but that one. I know the guy you can get it from. Ha!
> 
> I still wouldn't want it with 8K marked off of it, not from that dealer.


I think they've had those but another 100 would be cool. I don't wanna put anyone out but the market seems to handle the yahoos pretty well when their intent is to do harm.

There's that one girl there though. She needs a career somewhere other than there. She is fair and seems to be a hard worker but what impressed me about her was she spoke up when everyone was watching and talked straight on the hull truth.

Jess is her name she has it together.


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## DawnsKayBug (Jul 24, 2013)

Lets see some pix of the new boat and the rest of the story Mark.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

DawnsKayBug said:


> Lets see some pix of the new boat and the rest of the story Mark.


Well, I drove to Mobile Alabama to see the dealer for the first time. My boat had arrived and I can tell you that George and his wife are the nicest people.

My boat was ready for a sea trial and we had to wait three hours to get a break in the rain.

The boat was in great shape just like a new boat should be.

When Tidewater agreed to build me another boat after all other options had been exhausted I bumped up to a 250 adventure with twins. 

Jai, who used to be with Sea Hunt was my primary contact at Tidewater. 
He kept me informed throughout the build process and assured me that they would do everything within their power to make me a happy boat owner..
IMO he did just that.

There were a few hiccups here and there but, they went so far above and beyond it was all good.

They installed my electronics and my transducers at the factory saving me even a few more bucks.

I hope to be on the water tomorrow but with 3-5' seas expected I'll probably just putt around the ICW breaking the engines in nice and slow.

Here are some pics. 

If you all have questions I can certainly answer any and all of them now that I have a boat!


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)




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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Great looking sled! :thumbup:


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## cheesegrits (Sep 18, 2013)

That last picture is what its all about!!! What an ordeal and I am glad this worked out.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Thank you gentlemen. 
Yep a little more wait and I got a lot more boat. I wouldn't change a thing!
Both my boys are on cloud 9 now. 
Wife is happy the boat is safer for longer trips also.

Pictured is my 10 year old and I may have a photo of my 3 year old grinning from ear to ear also. Good days to come


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## DawnsKayBug (Jul 24, 2013)

How where you able to upgrade? Did the factory hook you up so good that there wasnt that big of a price difference?


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

DawnsKayBug said:


> How where you able to upgrade? Did the factory hook you up so good that there wasnt that big of a price difference?


Well, yes but, it was still a leap to get there but, Hey, I started looking for a 25k budget. Since the new 23 was already almost 2 times that amount and I was listening to my old man saying don't go way out on a 23, well I figured now was the best time to bump up when a factory was involved.

So I bumped.
It was substantial but, I should be able to be in an equitable situation throughout the life of the boat.

Also got the 6 year warranties on the twins.


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## DawnsKayBug (Jul 24, 2013)

I know how it is. I started with. $20k budget. My wife was PISSED when I told her how much I spent. It's good to see that everything worked out for you. The extended warranties are nice. Myibe expires in 2019.


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