# Beginners speargun



## IanR

Ive been doing quite a bit of spearing lately and I'm totally hooked. So far, all I've been doing is free diving and using a poke pole. 



I'm gonna try and get scuba certified within the next month or so and was wondering what kind of gun I should keep my eyes out on. I have no idea about guns. I dont really want a pneumatic one tho. seems like it be to easy to break.



Is there any special brand i should look for? Length? Number of bands? 



Im just starting out so i dont need anything crazy, but I'd like it to be pretty versatile. 

And are there any places around here to look for a decent used gun?



Any info is greatly appreciated!



Ian


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## Telum Pisces

A long thread with recomendations. 48" or bigger wood gun are starter specs to go after. 

http://www.fishthebridge.com/fishingforum/Topic21032-39-1.aspx?Highlight=starting


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## Clay-Doh

What Jon said. Wood, biller if ya buy new or used, JBL if ya buy used (do NOT buy a new JBL...total crap), or Riffe if ya got the fat cash. But you will kill just as many fish with a Biller or JBL as a Riffe.

As long a gubn as you can comfortably handle (only get a gun with 3 bands if you plan on only having one gun) and as long as you can comfotably load.

Keep your tip sharpened before every day diving, youll lose a lot less fish when you are getting good penatration. A lot of people dont realize how important that is. I see tips on boats that look like sombody is trying more to knock the fish out than penetrate it as blunt and bent over as there tips are. 

And get one of the new Spearfishing Specialties rotating tips that MBT caries, theres a bout an inch more of wing span in the floppers when open. Again, youll lose a lot less fish.

And when looking at used guns, consider in the price any things it needs, like new bands (change em twice a year if you dive a lot...they dont really last longer than 6 months for full power), shock cord, and tip. If a used gun needs all those things, you soon will be spending as much as a new gun.

Good luck and happy hunting! Before you buy a used one, its worth checkin to see if MBT will cut ya any kinda deal on a new one. I know they sold a bunch of Billers unbelievably cheap during some of there sales!


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## spearfisher

42" AB Biller/Spearfishing Specialties would be my suggestion as a starter gun.


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## Jarhead

I just started spearfishing a couple months ago and I got a 53" JBL Wood gun and I love it. Easy to load and I have only lost one fish because it was out of range. I've tried out some of the larger and more expensive guns that my buddies have and after getting used to mine, I didn't like theirs at all. Even these Riffes that cost an arm and leg aren't worth it in my opinion. My gun cost a fraction of theirs and I shoot just as many fish as any of them and sometimes more because I can reload quicker. I wouldn't dump a bunch of cash into it right away. I tend to run out and spend too much money for some of the best gear because I don't want to be out there and not have what I need so I was a little nervous about buying a cheaper gun but it hasn't let me down yet and I have a blast with it. 



PM me and I'll give you the contact info for the guy I bought my gun from.. You want the wood guns because they're neutral in the water. I used a tiny metal gun once and after 5 minutes my wrist was tired as hell from holding the thing out in front of me but my long wood gun is light as a feather underwater. But Don't forget to Lock Tight the tip.. I lost a tip on my first dive because I just tightened the thing instead of using lock tight. 



Just my opinion and I'm no expert.


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## haworthfloors.com

I bought a SEA HORNET from MBT and love it! It is a 48 I think. Great gun, easy to reload, kills fish.


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## UnderWater Angler

Ian, good to meet you the other day at the shop; come see me again, have some billers that have been sitting around for a while and need a good home.


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## Orion45

> *Clay-Doh (10/20/2008)* JBL if ya buy used (do NOT buy a new JBL...total crap)


Now you have hurt my feelings. :moon :moon


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## BADBOY69

Vlado, Clay was talking specifically about the trigger mechanisms of the new guns. He wasn't insulting your JBL cannon that takes three people to load! 'Jarhead' is right, a wood 42"-48" Biller is a great all around gun that will give you range, accuracy, punch, and versaltility! Easy re-load and easy on the wallet! Give any of us a shout and we'll try and help you more!


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## FelixH

If you go with a Biller, I'd say go at least 48". 

The 42" is a fine little gun... that's what I started with. But if you get the 48" you won't "outgrow" it as quickly as you would the 42". I'm still shooting my 42" but I'm sure I'll have something bigger by spring.


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## lobsterman

I have been diving and spearfishing since 68. I say buy an AB Biller wood gun either 42" or 48". You can kill everything you want or need with either one. I killed a 32 lb grouper with a 2 band 20" gun. The key is don't chase but to act calm and let them come to you. I have a 48" Teak Biller and wouldn't change for nothing. Don't get me wrong Riffe's are super fantastic but they are an incredibly expensive non necessity.


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## Orion45

> *BADBOY69 (10/21/2008)*Vlado, Clay was talking specifically about the trigger mechanisms of the new guns. He wasn't insulting your JBL cannon that takes three people to load! 'Jarhead' is right, a wood 42"-48" Biller is a great all around gun that will give you range, accuracy, punch, and versaltility! Easy re-load and easy on the wallet! Give any of us a shout and we'll try and help you more!


My feelings are still hurt.


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## BuckWild

> *Clay-Doh (10/20/2008)*JBL if ya buy used (do NOT buy a new JBL...total crap), or Riffe if ya got the fat cash.
> 
> 
> 
> Ishoot a magnum 450 xhd and love it. the gulf magnum would be a good starter gun, it it a little shorter and just as good as a wood gun, but you dont have to worry about the finish. If you go with jbl, get the "x" rated trigger. everybody has their own preference.
Click to expand...


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## kennethmandel62

I'm still new to swimming down and killing fish, so when it was time for me to buy a gun I made sure to ask around a lot and I definitely think it paid off. I bought the 48" Sea Hornet from MBT. This gun is extremely easy to reload and I definitely recommend it to anyone. I haven'thad a chance to get anything bigger than a couple 12-15lb snapper w/it though. Well I could've shot a shark with it, which the "SEA HORNET!!!!" WOULD HAVE SLAUGHTERED!! (the shark was 5-6 ft), but I decided instead just to go rambo and use my swiss army knife.


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## Orion45

> *Orion45 (10/21/2008)*
> 
> 
> 
> *BADBOY69 (10/21/2008)*Vlado, Clay was talking specifically about the trigger mechanisms of the new guns. He wasn't insulting your JBL cannon that takes three people to load! 'Jarhead' is right, a wood 42"-48" Biller is a great all around gun that will give you range, accuracy, punch, and versaltility! Easy re-load and easy on the wallet! Give any of us a shout and we'll try and help you more!
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings are still hurt.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to add thatClay's remarks caused me considerable distress. I don't think I'll ever be able to show up for another dive with my JBL.


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## Clay-Doh

Haa haa Orion. I cannot speak for the metal jbl's. But I have personnaly seen componets ofSIX different new JBL woodys fail STRAIGHT FROM THE SHOP. From shafts, to machining and slide ring problems, to broken trigger housings, to "misfires" where the gun just goes off. 

My first gun ever was a JBL woody magnum, an old one from a pawnshop for $100. I shot it at least a thousand times, abused the hell out of it, used it as a push pole, grab hook, and to keep my self from getting bashed againts rocks in strong tides, and I NEVER had one problem.

There production quality has went to shit, which is a shame cuz they WERE a great gun. Now there thin, inferior materials, with poor machining tolerences and qualit control.

Hate to say it.

But you see everybody is happy with there Billers / Sea Honets!


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## IanR

So i've been looking at some of the billers on leisurepro and they seem to only have 2 bands. Can you add another one? Im guessing the lack of the 3rd band gives them a bit less power than other models? are there stronger band strengths that would give more power? lobsterman said he killed a sick grouper on a 2 band gun so the must be able to push some weight around



thanks for the all the info. much appreciated!


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## lobsterman

yes they make different sized bands. I use the biggest you can use in the actual size the gun recommends. In other words I use the 5/8 band in the 22". I only need 2 bands because the most power out of your gun is one shaft length out of your gun.


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## Telum Pisces

I have been shooting a 3 band gun almost since I started. Most 3 band guns use 9/16th bands. I recently aquired a 48" sea hornet ltdand powered it with two 5/8 bands and it has just as much power and it only takes loading two bands rather than three. When you are underwater, you will soon realize that the ability to quickly reload after a shot will improve the amount of fish that you shoot. Also, look up what the gun comes with stock as far as band length. Most of the time you can give the gun a little more power by putting on the next smaller band. (22" vs. 24") That is as long as you can comfortably load it. 

And no matter what gun you buy, I would highly look at putting on the spearfishing specialties speed load shock cord kit. I shoot a commercial line system now that requires no wrapping of a shock cord and I am in heaven when it comes to reloading that gun. It's supper easy.


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## Clay-Doh

Yeah, get the thicker bands, 5/8th. 9/16th, and the thinner ones than that arent as much juice. Also, bands a couple inches shorter than stock give more power. But becareful not to overpower it, or you will get whats called shaft whip. Where it makes your shaft bend from the shear force of enertia, and screws up your accuracy.

And Lobsterman is right, about the most energy is one shaft length from your gun (actually its really when the shaft is 3/4 the way out of your gun because that is when the bands have stopped pulling on the shaft...oke ) but all fish that you want to shoot are not 1 shaft length from your gun. 

A 30-06 riffle bullets optimum speed is one bullet length away from the barrell, unfortunately all deer arent one bullet length away from the barrel.

But as he said, even the smallest gun can kill a large fish with the right shot placement, and at close enough range. But since all shots arent kill shots, you want to make sure you have enough power for your tip to punch all the way thru a large fish, even at a distance of 10 feet or so, so that the flopper wings on your spear tip can do there job, open up, hold your still very much alive fish, and let you pull it in.

Many are going to be ten feet away, no matter how stealthy of a hunter you are. And with 3 bands, you can have the option to use that power. You also have the option to only load1 or 2 bands when need be. Like yesterday, I went out with DK diver and some others, and the fish were friendly, and close in, so I shott most all the fish with 1 band on my Riffe. Got myself 2 AJ, 3 nice red snapper, and 3 nice Gray snapper,couple of em bigger than the reds! 

But at one time I had all 3 bands loaded on the last dive, cuz there was one 15 to 18 pound big ole red snapper that would come in to about 20 feet, watch me, then leave again...and I was just waitin for em to get about 15 feet and I would a popped em, AND had enough juice with them 3 thick bands to punch thru him! And I have shot plenty of fish at 20 feet, and Gman, Flyingfisher, Fenderbender, and others have seen it plenty of times.

And one more thing! When Fenderbender shot that 96 pound AJ a few months ago, he shot it at almost point blank range in the head, with a JBL woody MAgnum, there BIGGEST wood gun, with 3 5/8th inch bands, 4" shorter than stock, and the tip STILL only went half way in his skull! He woulda lost it with 2 bands for sure, especially stock bands.

Just a thought. You can always load less bands, but you cant add more in the middle of a dive!


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## FelixH

> *Telum Piscis (10/22/2008)* look at putting on the spearfishing specialties speed load shock cord kit.


I recently added that to my 42" Biller, and I love it so far.


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## Biller48

48'' AB biller, great gun for the price, easy to customize, open muzzle makes upgrading bands simple, wether you make them or buy them. Wood just feels good in the water


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## Orion45

> *Telum Piscis (10/22/2008)*I have been shooting a 3 band gun almost since I started. Most 3 band guns use 9/16th bands. I recently aquired a 48" sea hornet ltdand powered it with two 5/8 bands and it has just as much power and it only takes loading two bands rather than three. When you are underwater, you will soon realize that the ability to quickly reload after a shot will improve the amount of fish that you shoot. Also, look up what the gun comes with stock as far as band length. Most of the time you can give the gun a little more power by putting on the next smaller band. (22" vs. 24") That is as long as you can comfortably load it.
> 
> And no matter what gun you buy, I would highly look at putting on the spearfishing specialties speed load shock cord kit. I shoot a commercial line system now that requires no wrapping of a shock cord and I am in heaven when it comes to reloading that gun. It's supper easy.


JBL Magnum XHD and Gulf Magnums have 3 5/8' bands.My Gulf Magnum comes with 25" bands. Since I can't find 25" bands locally, I use 24" bands. I like 3 banded guns because it gives you the option of using 1 to 3 bands.I have used it with only 1 band onseveral occasions. You'll be surprised how quickly youcal reload it. Still plenty power for smaller fish close in.


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## Orion45

> *Clay-Doh (10/22/2008)*Haa haa Orion. I cannot speak for the metal jbl's. But I have personnaly seen componets ofSIX different new JBL woodys fail STRAIGHT FROM THE SHOP. From shafts, to machining and slide ring problems, to broken trigger housings, to "misfires" where the gun just goes off.
> 
> My first gun ever was a JBL woody magnum, an old one from a pawnshop for $100. I shot it at least a thousand times, abused the hell out of it, used it as a push pole, grab hook, and to keep my self from getting bashed againts rocks in strong tides, and I NEVER had one problem.


Clay-Doh,

My first JBL was an aluminum Magnum HXD. It lasted 16 yrs. I only got rid of it because I wanted the JBL Gulf Magnum, also aluminum. Never had any problems with either. I can't address the wooden JBLs. JBL has a new line of wooden guns but I don't know anything about them. I feel better now that you clarified your comments. Guess I can keep using my JBL withoutfeeling embarassed oke

Vlado


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## Clay-Doh

Hee hee....use away Orion!!! I was talkin bout the woddys, I am a wood gun lover!

When you gettin back in the water?


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## IanR

i miss fenderbender, he needs to come back to pcola:crying



so can you put 3 bands on a biller or does it only fit 2?


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## Orion45

> *Clay-Doh (10/22/2008)*Hee hee....use away Orion!!! I was talkin bout the woddys, I am a wood gun lover!
> 
> When you gettin back in the water?


Jan 2009.


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## FelixH

> *IanR (10/22/2008)*i miss fenderbender, he needs to come back to pcola:crying
> 
> so can you put 3 bands on a biller or does it only fit 2?


You can easily fit 3 of the 9/16" bands.

or

2 of the 9/16" + 1 of the 5/8"

2 @ 5/8" + 1 @ 9/16" gets pretty tight.

3 @ 5/8 would be very tight in the muzzle... if it would even fit.


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## IanR

Hmm. would any of those combinations cause shaft whip?



So what I'm understanding is the number of bands depends on the number of notches on the actual shaft (not notches on some type of firing mechanism on the gun itself) and the size and strength capabilities on the gun?


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## Biller48

3 5/8'' bands on a biller 48 is wonderful. i usually buy the band material and make my bands below factory length. i have never had a problem fitting them through the muzzle. i am a huge fan of wood guns, they just seem to be a lot quieter and smoother moving in the water to me. i have two 48 inch biller mahogony guns for almost ten years now and all i have done is re-sealed them once to protect the wood. i was in cuba for two years and slayed cubrera, mutton, anddogsnapper, black grouper, snook, permit, cudas, etc with ease. some of these fish exceeded 40 lb's regularly. i have never dealt with shaft warp, and have allways gained significant power with shorter bands. shot placement is key and as long as you know the effective range with whatever gun you choose, you will be in buisness. its all a learning experience throughout. a lot of the PFF members have vast experience, get with them or local dive shops, they will hook you up. i will be backin the area for good in January, look me up allways need spearin partners.


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## FelixH

> *Biller48 (10/23/2008)*3 5/8'' bands on a biller 48 is wonderful.


Maybe there's a little more space in the muzzle of a 48for bands than in the 42.

All my experience is with the 42 Biller.


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## Jarhead

"spearfishing specialties speed load shock cord kit. "



What is this and where can I get one !! I can't imagine how something else would rig up... I'ma google it..


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## Biller48

im pretty sure there is a size difference, does the 42 come with 2 bands, i cant remember. the 48 comes with three factory bands, but i allways make my own and use the factoryfor back-ups. i have had the wish bones break on factory bands, nasty cut.


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## flyingfishr

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=72022

found this today, might be shorter than what you are looking for, but I've gone down with Sniper Spear-It's 42" gun and lit up some fish. Not a bad deal at all.


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## Clay-Doh

All Biller wood guns of the same type, (JBL's also) use the same exact componets wether a 24" gun, or a 60" gun. The only differnece is the length of the wood stock, and teh shaft. The trigger housings and buts and muzzles are all the same. So either can handle the same amount of power.

In fact, in theroy, a shorter gun could hnadle more power, because the bands have less "leverage" on the stock when pulled, and less stock "flex". Also, a shrter shaft is less prone to whipping upon firing. But dont worry about a shorter gun not being able to handle the power. It can handle as much Pounds per sq ft of band energy as the biggest gun Biller makes. Same componets. You just need to make sure the shaft has 3 band notches.

Also, if you only decide to go one way or the other to produce more power, either thicker bands, or shorter bands, go with the thicker bands. Heres why. Thicker bands will produce more energy then shorter bands, because there is more kinetic energy (stored energy) because there is more rubber in them. Shorter bands do produce more power, because they are stretched tighter, but you are just actually limiting out the kinetic energy available in that amount of rubber, where as you are actually providing MORE kinetic energy by adding more rubber with thicker bands. OK>.....I'll quite with the phsics lesson now.:letsdrink

Also, thicker bands are easier to load than shorter bands, because you don't have to reach as far forward to grab them when loading. Also, they will last longer, cuz there not getting overstretched.


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## flyingfishr

damn clay, I feel like I just learned something after reading your post! you gotta be careful, people are gonna start coming to you with real problems and want you to fix them if you keep this up!


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## FenderBender

Ian, i'm coming into town with a couple of buddies from dive school thart have to get their SCUBA certs believe it or not this weekend coming up (31st) and the next weekend also. Definitly lets meet up and do some spearing if the weather is nice we can take my boat to the mass and if its crappy we can try navarre pier or something. Your welcome to try my gun, and OLD woody magnum with ultra short 5/8" bands on it... no trouble with accuracy or power. and you never know when you will need all 3 bands power! I know from personal experience all 3 bands from 5 ft. out won't go all the way through big AJ's heads


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## Clay-Doh

Ha! Fenders gun has INSANELY short bands! He let me use it for a while, and I ordered the last set of bands for it. They are the thicker, 5/8th, and I think that gun calls for 26" bands, and he has 22" !!

But that thing shoots true as an arrow! Its a JBL woody magnum, an older one..same as my gun I ised for 3 years. They are great guns!


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