# Bluewater Gear Mistakes



## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

So I caught the biggest YFT of my life on Saturday.

I had a 350g jigging acid wrapped rod with a Torsa 12II

The reel did excellent with 65LB braid and a Top shot of 80LB mono. I fished a 10/0 Mustad Demon Perfect Circle Hook while chunking.

The rod grips now spin. The grips are toast but the rod held up.

QUESTION AND ANSWER

When chunking should I go to a stand up roller rod?

I have larger reels like Torsa 40 and Talica 16II's but have not seen a real reason to go to 20's or 25's since 40LB drag is about all you can muster for one and two the tuna's mouth is pretty soft.
Is this sound thinking?

Trolling:
We trolled with a 3 spread to keep things simple with only 2 adults on board

Down the center with a diver on a Roller and Penn 2 speed 50
Port Standup roller with a Tyrnos 30II (Chugger)
Starboard Standup roller with a Tiagra 30WLSRA (Weighted smoker)

Q: While trolling what drag should the reel be capable of?
Q: While chunking for Large YFT is 40Lbs enough drag?
Q: When you get a fish that spools 3000' of line and wraps you around the rig before you can chase him down, 
What is it? and 
What could have been done to prevent the spool without pulling the hook?

If by accident we hooked up on a Marlin or Sail is the gear I am fishing gonna slow them down?

Sorry but, I am realizing that I am in a totally different world in 6500' of water and I want to go back all of the time!

What say you?


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## stc1993 (Nov 23, 2014)

Way over my head. It sounds like you know what your doing. There was 2 BFT caught in the tourny in the 800 lb class.


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## neckmoe (Apr 7, 2009)

looking forward to hearing answers to this one


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## Bluewater Report (Jul 14, 2014)

I can't answer all of these questions, but I'll give you a few concepts for starters:
- Modern compact reels capable of delivering heavy drag have changed the way many people tuna fish. It wasn't long ago that only internationals and tiagras would be used for this since they were the only reels that could deliver the necessary drag to do it. But, any reel capable of consistently giving 15 pounds of drag and big enough to hold 400-500 yds of line, is good enough to catch a tuna. Consistency is important here though (from both the reel and the angler).
- I would never use a reel that didn't have lugs on the front to connect a harness to. This is non-negotiable.
- Without a beefy rod and properly set up harness, you or I couldn't consistently pull 40 lbs. of drag. Even with a good set up, I probably wouldn't get to 40 lbs. consistently. Point is, you don't need that much drag. I've caught many tuna on 30 when the drag never exceeded 15 pounds and many blues on 50 (and 30) when the drag never exceeded 1/3 of the breaking strength of the line (which is the general rule of thumb for drag settings while trolling). More drag can definitely help, but it's better to stick with whatever your angler and tackle can apply consistently.


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## neckmoe (Apr 7, 2009)

BlueWater Report....You mention drag and harness. Could you elaborate on any safety considerations and proper technique of handling a large fish? I've never used a harness except for occasionally using a belt. Thoughts?


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## Bluewater Report (Jul 14, 2014)

Not a safety consideration. You're missing out because it helps the angler apply more drag, more consistently, for longer. Instead of a big fish whipping you, you get to whip the fish and then be ready for another one (after a cold beer of course).


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## Mullethead (Oct 4, 2007)

OK - my 2 cents - there are other very experienced blue water guys on this forum that could fill you in with better info - but this is my quick take for what its worth : 

“So I caught the biggest YFT of my life on Saturday.” 
- Nice – how big? – a Torsa 12 with #65 is OK – but will not perform very long at high drag settings – also – not familiar with a Torsa 12II – do you mean a Talica 12II? 
-  
“When chunking should I go to a stand up roller rod?” 
I think so – could be an extended fight – most prefer a short stand up rod – when standing up ! and the roller tip helps at high drag settings – long drag runs – extended fights

“I have larger reels like Torsa 40 and Talica 16II's but have not seen a real reason to go to 20's or 25's since 40LB drag is about all you can muster for one and two the tuna's mouth is pretty soft.
Is this sound thinking?” 
40 lb of drag is a huge amount - a setting typical for 100 # plus braid - you will need a harness for extended fights – the Talica 20 is the smallest that has lugs for a shoulder, kidney or full seat harness – you will need that if you are fighting 30 min- hour long fights at 40 lb of drag. 
A tuna’s mouth is not all that soft - 

“Q: While trolling what drag should the reel be capable of?” 
The reel drag should be capable of smooth – reliable performance at 1/3 the breaking strength of the line in the strike setting – this is often a lot less than the advertised max amount 
For reference a Penn Int 50 with 50 lb mono is typically set a 16 lb in strike – if spooled with 80 mono – 25- 30 lb at strike – depending on rods – lures/baits personal preference etc.. anglers tweak these values 
What line are you spooling these reels ? 

“Q: While chunking for Large YFT is 40Lbs enough drag?” 
Yes 

“Q: When you get a fish that spools 3000' of line and wraps you around the rig before you can chase him down, 
What is it? and What could have been done to prevent the spool without pulling the hook?” 
You have 1000 yards of line ? what # test ? Likely a cow yellow fin – or if early in the year a blue fin – Lots of circumstances to consider – but chase hard – aggressive drag – gaining angles – long discussions on shoulda- coulda-woulda


“ If by accident we hooked up on a Marlin or Sail is the gear I am fishing gonna slow them down?” 
A sail or white marlin for sure – the man in the blue suite is another story... 
They can get huge - most smaller – or medium sized blues can be tamed with 500-600 yds of 50 (typical 50 lb mono trolling gear) serious marlin fishermen go with 80 to 130 lb class rigs and 600-800 yds of line or more


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## Yellow fever 23 (May 25, 2013)

A stiff rod with a bent butt and a harness is your best friend when you're in a long vertical fight with a big tuna. As far as drag, we fish with talica 25's,we never use more than 25-30#'s of drag. We use 60-80 pound leaders, so locking a drag down is out of the question.


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

I've caught just about everything with 15 to 17 lbs of drag while trolling. Tuna chunking is a different game all together. I don't know anyone that can hold 40lbs of drag for more than a few minutes or less. If you were harnessed up and someone holding your backside then yes 40lbs can be accomplished without much stress on the angler. It would be a whole lot of stress on the equipment.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Mullethead said:


> OK - my 2 cents - there are other very experienced blue water guys on this forum that could fill you in with better info - but this is my quick take for what its worth :
> 
> “So I caught the biggest YFT of my life on Saturday.”
> - Nice – how big? – a Torsa 12 with #65 is OK – but will not perform very long at high drag settings – also – not familiar with a Torsa 12II – do you mean a Talica 12II?
> ...


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Bluewater Report said:


> I can't answer all of these questions, but I'll give you a few concepts for starters:
> - Modern compact reels capable of delivering heavy drag have changed the way many people tuna fish. It wasn't long ago that only internationals and tiagras would be used for this since they were the only reels that could deliver the necessary drag to do it. But, any reel capable of consistently giving 15 pounds of drag and big enough to hold 400-500 yds of line, is good enough to catch a tuna. Consistency is important here though (from both the reel and the angler).
> - I would never use a reel that didn't have lugs on the front to connect a harness to. This is non-negotiable.
> - Without a beefy rod and properly set up harness, you or I couldn't consistently pull 40 lbs. of drag. Even with a good set up, I probably wouldn't get to 40 lbs. consistently. Point is, you don't need that much drag. I've caught many tuna on 30 when the drag never exceeded 15 pounds and many blues on 50 (and 30) when the drag never exceeded 1/3 of the breaking strength of the line (which is the general rule of thumb for drag settings while trolling). More drag can definitely help, but it's better to stick with whatever your angler and tackle can apply consistently.



Agreed, the new reels that I am moving to
Talica 12II
Talica 16II

These are some of the most balanced reels I've ever fished.

The Torsa, Tiagra, Tyrnos reels are all good. The Torsa likely being the best but the large width of the reels make it hard to compete with the Talicas for me.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

As far as drag.

My rod was not meant for what I caught.

This being said I had a fair amount of drag on the reel and the Tuna kept ripping it off. 
After the 4th run, I think it was the 4th?
I started winching him in due to me being worn out after 35 minutes of him laying sideways 

I put both thumbs on the spool and cranked him up with each wind down.

That must have taken it out of him also as he started his runs then near the top of the water and pretty much circling the boat.

I believe that if the same reel had been on a roller the fight may have lasted just as long but, I wouldn't have been near as pooped.

It's interesting to hear about the harness.
I didnt have one and brought him in on a fighting belt only but, the additional leverage would have been sweet to lean back on.

Looks like I need to stick with the Torsa 40 or step up to a couple of Talica 25's to get the harness rings on the reel.

Thank you for the answers!

Going to be going more and more.

Love this kind of fishing and getting on out there.


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## FishFighter92 (Jul 10, 2012)

I troll with three Talicas and two Tiagra 50w's. The Talicas are amazing reels and I can use them for both trolling and chunking. I've never had to push the drag to 40lbs ever, but have my drag ratings marked on the side of the reel with painters tape. The max I can push it up to is around 30lbs of drag if I really cranked it all the way to the top. If you get a harness I would recommend the AFTCO harness, very comfortable. When you pair the harness with a talica 20 or 25, it's extremely lightweight and easy to fight. I've only got one of the three Talicas on a bent butt and wouldn't worry about it too much if you just want to fish straight butts. In my opinion, it doesn't make an extreme amount of difference fighting the fish. If you've got any specific questions about the reels and rods I've got, just let me know and I'll give you some more
Insight!


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## Kevinwwings2 (Mar 3, 2016)

I prefer to go for line capacity. My goal is 500 yards, typically around 80#, for conventionals and 65 for spinners. Having and being able to use a harness is a requirement, I suggest the Equalzer by Black Magic. It is a 2 piece system so you can first put the plate on and decide later if you want the top portion which attaches to the lugs on the reel. My drags are set at 1/3 of the weakest part of the line which is usually the Fluoro carbon leader for chunking ( I usually fish 60#). I have a variety of reels from Avet HX's, a Tyronos 30, and a new Talica 25. My first choice is the Talica 25, and it is on a custom rod with a Winthrop Adjusta butt, so straight or bent, but prefer bent with Tuna. It helps raise the reel in the harness without putting the rod too up and down risking high sticking the rod and likely leading to a broken rod. Half my rods have roller stripper and tip guides, which I think help, but don't see a huge difference between them and a standard ring guide. I certainly don't think it would lead to a noticeable amount of angler fatigue. 
ON big fish I think the single largest advantage the angler can have is a good harness. The next is endurance, remember that fish is fighting for it's life we are just doing this for fun. I just took some new anglers out on a chunking trip and trying to explain it to them I asked if someone said you need to walk/run 10 miles to live how would you do it? They said walk it. OK then I said the fish's view is you have a gun to your head and you must be the first one to the end of 10 miles, how do you think he is going to do it. If you have line capacity and the ability to get comfortable while putting a reasonable amount of drag on a fish you will win MOST of the time. I don't think a single reel of mine is set at over 25# of drag, and I rarely push it all the way up. It is just too fatiguing on the angler, and risks breaking stuff.
You will have no problem stopping a Sail or White, as for a Blue I am going to say good luck, but have no first hand experience with them. We constantly fish Sails with 15-30# tackle and very rarely have line break issues. May have a fish 150 yards from the boat before we start to chase them down, mainly because the line drag is putting more stress on the fish than the angler at that point. We also try to get them in fairly quick so they have the energy to survive since we are strictly catch and release on Sails.
This is a subject matter you could get a ton of advice on and occasionally may still loose the battle, but time and experience will prevail most of the time. You never know when you may find that Bluefin out there and with YFT tackle your gonna have to be super lucky to win that battle and likely won't.

Good luck, be safe and enjoy the learning process, it never ends.


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## rustybucket (Aug 18, 2011)

I am by no means an expert on this but I went through your same learning curve last year, so I'll share our experiences.

We thought that Shimano 30's were our tuna gear last year. We made several trips with them and boated lots of blackfin and some small(ish) yellowfin. I'd say a normal 30 will handle a 50-60lb yellowfin tuna all day. I'm sure some have landed bigger on them.

Last year, near the first of July, we got on some MONSTERS. We never saw one but we hooked them all night long. The 30's just wouldn't cut it, they didn't have the drag or the capacity to handle those fish. We are thinking they were in the 150-200lb range. We have since caught 100lb fish and didn't touch what those fish did.

So, now, when we go tuna fishing we take nothing but 50w's. We have two short rods that we prefer for chunking, but have gone to longer rods when one of those busted off. We use loop to loop windon Flourocarbon leaders in the 25' range and will use anywhere from 40lb to 80lb flourocarbon depending on what the fish like. We do not use any swivels.

Now, like others have stated, the new 'super reels' have definitely changed the game. I cannot help you much on them as we use older, heavy duty Shimano Triton Trolling Series, with upgraded carbon fiber drag. Our 50's are pulling about 30lbs at strike and our 80's are pulling close to 40, we can go past strike and really (smoothly) ramp that number WAY up.

We have 100lb mono with 100lb braid backing on everything we tuna fish with.

A harness is absolutely a MUST on these big fish. Trying to do this without a good stand-up harness will absolutely kill an angler and also greatly extend the fight. If your harness mounts low on your hips you can easily put an enormous amount of pressure on a fish without expending much of your own energy. For kids and smaller bodied anglers we will actually tether them to the boat by clipping a dock line from their harness to the rocket launcher.


Smaller reels will land the majority of fish you will hook up with but.... We spent an entire night of breaking off, loosing, sharking, and having fish of a lifetime dive into the rig without ever being able to land one... So, I learned my lesson... go big, or go home... It was a VERY humbling experience.


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## marksnet (Aug 22, 2014)

Great info on this thread. Thanks guys. I am now in the market for Talica 25's for harness ring setup


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## Kevinwwings2 (Mar 3, 2016)

One other thing I used to judge what I needed was what do the charter guys use. The charters I have been on, and most I have watched videos on tend to use 20-30 class reels and shorter bent butt rods. I have yet to see one using heavier gear, unless they are pulling a live bait for Marlin. Heck one I was on used the larger Stella's and on our trip a guy beat a 128# yft with one. I do have to say technique played a big part. Unlike most fish don't go for a 3' pump and wind. If you get 6 inches take it. When you make that 3' rod drop to wind the line on you give him a half second advantage and since a Tuna's tail never stops that is often long enough for the fight to turn to his favor. Short steady pumps will break his will faster than anything else.

Also keep in mind your are fishing in a fishery that does have some monsters around like 500+# Bluefin, and Blue Marlin, so if you're lucky enough to hook one of them you are not going to stop them on the lighter tackle. However if you fish heavy enough to stop them you likely won't get many YFT bites, as they don't tend to like heavy leaders. You have to pick your arsonal based on your goal, and realize you may need to re-line on occasion. I carry enough line on the boat to re-line at least one of each class rods right there on the water. If I am carrying spinners for poppers and what not I usually carry 2 re-line's. I doubt I will get spooled when I am using my 20k Saragossa's and they have 500 yds of 65# on them but it is always possible. Also pretty sure I would attach a 50 wide to them and send them over the side before I would make it to the bottom of the spool.


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## Magic236 (Oct 1, 2007)

I know this thread is more than a week old, with good responses and dialogue.
You later asked about safety issues using a harness and I haven't seen a response to the question. A harness using standup is an excellent way to catch big fish fast. The angler can use their largest muscles (legs) and entire body to leverage against a lot of drag. I recommend learning how to use a harness before you have the catch of a lifetime hooked. On the issue of safety, I make sure someone experienced stays by the angler, ready to hold them if they lose their balance or get pulled out of a chair. On my stand up harnesses, I make sure my angler knows how to use the harness, get out of it, and if the crap hits the fan they have a mono cutter so you can cut the line ASAP. The cutters are attached to my harnesses with 5' of mono. It's an excellent question, the late Stewart Campbell, a multi IGFA world record holder, was pulled over on 30# tackle because the leader got barrel wrapped around the rod, making drag settings a mute point. Thanks to his experience, presence of mind and skill he got out of his harness and swam to the surface to fight another day. This risk of long leaders is ANOTHER reason why I favor wind on leaders. 

Good luck and tight lines while you get dialed in offshore.


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## Kevinwwings2 (Mar 3, 2016)

Well said Magic236. George Povoromo went over the side in a harness fighting a Swordfish. Instead of hiding it he is mentioning it in all of his seminars, to help bring awareness to this. In his case the rod came out of the gimble and the rod and reel spun around so he could not even reach the drag, amongst the panic. Fortunately for him a camera man was right there and able to get him up for air. They did manage to land the fish too. I think the key to harness safety is knowing the equipment, and having options. Being able to get out of it is a last resort but may be your best option. Personally I assign one person on deck to stay with the person fighting the fish and hang onto the back of the harness just incase someone loses their balance or gets pulled over. The taller you are the harder a harness is to work from a smaller boat. I know I am 6'2 and I hate a harness out of my 28' CC, but my Girlfriend who is 5'4 has a serious advantage in the harness. Keeping a knife handy and attached to the harness is a great plan as well. 
My first move is to avoid departing the boat. 2) would be to loosen the drag slowly (if you do it too fast it will likely backlash and make a knot). 3) would be cut the line, and 4) release the rod or the harness which ever is necessary. 
A stand up harness has lots of advantages and some risks that come with it. I see it as the only reasonable way to land 100+# fish without a fighting chair.


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

I don't have a long response, but, I have a tad of experience. A nice cost effective setup would be a set of Shimano TLD 50lrs, (5). Do yourself a favor and put them on some stand up, short butt, bent butt rods. A good harness would be a must. We have caught a 500+ pound Blue on a TLD 30. Took a long time and some finesse. The 50 will handle pretty much anything you run into, including a blue or a sword. (Got both) Learn to handle the boat to help the angler when possible. If you want extra capacity, load it with either spectra or braid topped with mono.


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## neckmoe (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the input and advice. Can't wait to put some of these strategies to use!


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

As I have offered in the past, I'm no expert, but, have a pretty fair bit of experience. With this weather sucking especially, anybody interested is welcome to get up with me and I'll gladly impart what I have learned about over the last couple or few decades. PM me for contact info. I will sit down with anyone and at least try to help them.


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## jcasey (Oct 12, 2007)

Just read this thread. very good info, especially on the harness. I never really gave thought to a fish pulling me in and drowning me. Thanks.


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## stc1993 (Nov 23, 2014)

I remember a few yrs back it happened to a man fishing a tournament in NC. It happened at night, they never did find him that I know of.


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