# Is "Down Under" Diver OK???



## Candy

Heard a call on Channel 16 that the "Down Under" was doing CPR on a diver that was unconscious and not breathing around 1:00 pm today.

The Down Under was heading towards the Pensacola Pass.

Never did hear the Coast guard offer to send out a fast boat. 

We couldn't hear the Down Under side of the conversation but, the CG appeared to be repeating what they were told and asking the same questions multiple times.

Heard the name of the guy but won't post it here in case his family hasn't been notified yet.

I sure hope he is alright.  It didn't sound like he was going to make it.


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## Chapman5011

CPR only works about 10% of the time.


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## CootCommander

I hope I'm wrong but it didn't sound very favorable. The Capt says the incident happened at 12:40 and he was unconscious. At 1:00 he advised he wasn't breathing and they were performing CPR. Apparently there was a physician and at least 1 nurse on board.


And the CG did send a boat.


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## Candy

Prayers that he'll be ok and...for his family and the people who were on the boat during this event. 

Very glad to hear the CG sent a fast boat. We must have been underwater when that happened.


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## SaltAddict

Thanks Chapman for that ray of sunshine.


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## jspooney

So what's the word?


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## WhackUmStackUm

I was out at the LuLu yesterday on another boat when the Down Under was there. They seem to leave the LuLu at a normal pace around noon, possibly before noon. I assume they went to another spot. When we got back to the dock after a day of diving private spots, the dock crew said that a diver had died on the Down Under. Since this information came to me 3rd hand, I do not know for sure what happened.


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## captainmw

I was on board. He didn't survive.


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## El Kabong

What location were they diving when the incident happened?


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## Telum Pisces

Man sorry to hear that. We were holding out hope while listening on the radio.


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## captainmw

We were on the Navy Tug when it happened. 2nd dive. Dove the Lulu and the. The Navy Tug.


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## captainmw

When these things happen, a lot of 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand buzz starts going around with folks trying to find out what happened. And that’s up to the proper authorities and medical professionals to confirm. As divers we inquire because it’s often relevant to us, so that we learn from incidents in order to improve our ability to prevent them from happening in our own diving. In this case, a diver lost consciousness down by the wreck. First dive was on the Lulu (moderate surface current, mild bottom current, good vis) and the 2nd was on the Navy Tug (mild surface current, minimal bottom current, good vis). From the accounts on board yesterday, his buddy was close by and had just pointed out a fish, as the victim was into u/w photography. A moment later the buddy looks back over and the victim was nowhere to be seen. The victim surfaced unconscious and the crew got him on board and immediately removed his BCD and started resuscitation efforts. The remaining divers were gathered and the captain opened those John Deere’s up and screamed for the EMT crews waiting at the dock. The USCG intercepted the Down Under a few miles offshore and followed us the rest of the way in. Luckily there were several amazing MD’s and RN’s on board who performed CPR and administered oxygen relentlessly the entire way in but the victim did regain consciousness at any point and did not survive. It’s unknown as to why the victim lost consciousness. These kinds of these things happen every year in this sport and we all hear about it through the grapevine. I’ll say, I’m INCREDIBLY proud of everyone on board that boat in the efforts they made yesterday, especially his dive buddy who was nothing shy of a hero in his RELENTLESS attempts to locate and then later on board resuscitate the victim. Every passenger and every crewman on that boat deserves a pat on the back. Thoughts and prayers to the victim, his family, the crewmen and all the passengers.

Safe diving, everyone. And better days ahead…


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## WhackUmStackUm

Thanks for passing along the story. It’s sad to lose a fellow diver, but also encouraging to hear about the heroic efforts put forth by his buddy, fellow divers, and crew.


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## captainmw

Quick correction to a typo i just realized i made. The victim did NOT regain consciousness at any point.


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## Candy

Very sad news. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and with everyone who tried so hard to save his life.


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## SaltAddict

Very unfortunate. My thoughts are with family and friends of the fallen diver. It is always refreshing to hear of relentless efforts to save a life.


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## jim t

Perhaps these boats should carry portable defibrillators. They have proven life-saving when used by a professional. They are idiot proof. If you hook it up wrong it won't go off.

Studies show there is little or no benefit when used by untrained personnel, but certainly no harm. 

Typically though if you have a group of 30 or more people onboard somebody has some good medical training.

We carry them on all our airplanes. Flight Attendants are trained in their use. Typically though there is almost always an MD, RN, or EMT aboard to evaluate and take control.

Very few people die on airplanes each year. We use the portable defibrillator probably just a few times per year. Anecdotally we seem to lose 2 or three divers around here every year. The stresses are CERTAINLY a lot greater as a diver. Perhaps the local dive association should look at VOLUNTARY training and getting "deals" on defibrillators.

ALWAYS, when I was a CPR instructor (20 years ago) someone who voluntarily tried CPR and failed was immune to prosecution via a "Good Samaritan" common law precept.

These units are NOT cheap, maybe not normally salt environment friendly, but a large vacuum pack could possibly take care of that.

Just a thought as a former Navy CPR instructor.

Jim


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## Native Diver

My thoughts and prayers are with the family and crew!


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## MillerTime

Defibrillators these days are pretty much idiot proof. They show you where to place the pads, when to re-shock and to make sure not to hold onto the person when during the shock. It couldn't have hurt but there is no guarantee it would have saved him.

I was hoping for a better ending to this story though after we heard it on the radio. I can't imagine what the family is going through.


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## Mike aka FishWerks

The Defibrillators are a great idea. And if possible should be part of a complement of first aid equipment. However, if the unconsciousness is due to an Air/Gas Embolism (AGE) the stricken diver needs appropriate first aid AND a recompression chamber, he/she needs to be pushed to treatment depth asap. Back in the day... unconsciousness (any neurological symptoms) within :10 of surfacing were considered as AGE. To the tube...

Prayers said for the diver and his family.


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## El Kabong

Perhaps if we have a Doc on the board, he or she can correct me, but defibrillators are only helpful in a very narrow range of circumstances. Someone with nitrogen bubbles boiling out of their blood, or blown alveoli are not going to be helped with an artificially re-established heart rhythm. Someone having a medical on board could theoretically be helped, but now you're applying electricity to a probably wet deck. I'd much rather have a bag mask and an extra cylinder of O2 on board.


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## jim t

El Kabong said:


> Perhaps if we have a Doc on the board, he or she can correct me, but defibrillators are only helpful in a very narrow range of circumstances. Someone with nitrogen bubbles boiling out of their blood, or blown alveoli are not going to be helped with an artificially re-established heart rhythm. Someone having a medical on board could theoretically be helped, but now you're applying electricity to a probably wet deck. I'd much rather have a bag mask and an extra cylinder of O2 on board.


My impression of the new defibrillators is that you could hug the body and either it would not work or you would not feel a thing.

Heck you could hug the body with one pad on your chest, the other on the victim. It won't work.

It is really idiot proof. 

Jim


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## corrinas2

my buddy was fishing the tug when diver down asked him nicely to move so his crew could dive it.... thoughts and prayers to the family and the entire crew on down under.


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## Burnt Drag

I'm so sorry this happened. We'll probably only be able to speculate as to whether it was an incident of poor training, faulty gear, or "other'.... The thing that un-seats me here is that several are hollering for defib units. So, when the first incident happens in which a defib unit doesn't do the trick, they'll mandate a mobile surgical hospital... does anyone else get it?


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## jim t

Again, I said "VOLUNTARY" carry of a defibrillator. "VOLUNTARY"!!!

I'll bet the Captains who have lost a passenger will look at this option.

I NEVER said requirement. I said "VOLUNTARY". I would not expect ANY dive boat to carry one.

Defibs do NOT work when untrained people try it. (According to research). But Defibs WORK when a trained operator uses it.

SCIENCE

Jim


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## El Kabong

Jim, I think you're missing more than half the point. If someone has a heart attack, or loses consciousness at depth, the chances of them being in a shockable rhythm once they're back on the boat is probably astronomical. They're also going to have other medical issues that will make the heart rhythm almost irrelevant.

Unless a guy goes into a shockable rhythm on the deck, the AED is just ballast.


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## jim t

Okay... Thanks.

I'm not an expert on diving physiology. 

Jim


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## KingCrab

Obviously this person is Unknown to our community? Is he from here?


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## Telum Pisces

Yeah, an AED is not going to help a true "dive" incident most of the time. The person with a dive related injury, needs a chamber as quick as possible. 

But I don't think that it would hurt to have one on a charter boat just for the sheer fact that the charter boats deal with the public and interact with all kinds of people in a contested environment where heart attacks and other "shockable" related incidents can be more common due to the stresses of diving etc... Will it do anything to save a true dive related injury, nope. But other medical situations seem to show themselves more often when diving a lot of times.

DAN seems to have a grant program too:

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/training/instructors/aedgrant.asp


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## no woryz

I would have to agree that a AED is not a bad idea..... yes, he may have developed other diving related problems as a result of the initial incident but if its a heart issue that ultimately caused his death then an AED could only help, not hurt... the other problems are dealt with in relation to their severity..... Besides, I suppose anyone on a boat can have a heart issue... the price & technology have gotten to the point where the everyday citizen can utilize lifesaving equipment like never before.. As divers & fisherman way offshore, we are too far away for the EMT's to get there if anyone of us have a cardiac issue....


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## WhackUmStackUm

I know the dive charter boat "H2O Below" has a AED on board. Perhaps other local boats do as well.


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## HaoleByTheSea

I was looking for news of this... we were fishing and overheard the entire thing (what we could understand). Sad day, never like to hear of this kind of thing. I had a bad feeling when their ETA was 40 minutes and Down Under reported over the radio that he was unconcious and not breathing...


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## waterman13

Dang, it all makes sense now. I was diving with a friend on Saturday, we pulled up to the navy tug and saw the down under boat anchored to the wreck. All the divers were under water on the wreck so we waited about 10 min before we got in to try and wait for them to come up so we didn't have to share the wreck with a bunch of people.

We made a free decent onto the wreck to find the down under divers ascending up the anchor line. A couple minutes later we heard a loud banging noise over and over and over, the captain must have been hitting the hull or ladder with a hammer to signal his divers to return to the boat. I was wondering if something was wrong but didnt know what to do about it.

Our boat captain noticed they were running around on deck and ditched there anchor line instead of retrieving it when leaving. We weren't monitoring Chanel 16 so we had no idea this happened until today.

That's really sad to hear, my blessings go to the divers family and friends.


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## captainmw

You must have been on the Luhrs standing by there. That was me banging on the ladder with a lead weight.


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## stauty trout

I was with waterman...

We kinda thought something might have been up when we heard the banging, but just now finding out the story today.. I wish there was something we could have done to help.. Prayers to his family and friends


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## stauty trout

captainmw said:


> You must have been on the Luhrs standing by there. That was me banging on the ladder with a lead weight.


Yeah we were on the Tag Team..

When we pulled up we could see someone being towed in on a lifegaurd bouy.. we didn't know anything was wrong though just looked like someone was snokeling out there..

We tried to reach the Down Under on Channels 69 & 71 to make sure it was ok to dive with..


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## captainmw

If you all happened to retrieve his tie in gear it might be nice to get that back over to him on the Down Under


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## stauty trout

captainmw said:


> If you all happened to retrieve his tie in gear it might be nice to get that back over to him on the Down Under


The stuff on the wreck? We left it there as we thought they might be coming back for an afternoon dive or something.. 

My dad, brother in law, and a couple other guys went back out to the tug on Sunday and the mooring bouy was gone..


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## captainmw

The events of last weekend weigh on all of us aboard the boat that day. The outpouring of concern and prayers from everyone on the forum here has been very much appreciated. Thanks again to everyone who asked, inquired, followed on the radio and prayed for the victim, his family and everyone involved. Let's give our support and gratitude to the guys over on the Down Under and help give them better memories ahead this season. Do as the victim would want us to do and that's get back out there and do some badass diving!!!! He was a perpetually smiling, sweet older man with a passion for diving, so lets not let him down.


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## Telum Pisces

captainmw said:


> The events of last weekend weigh on all of us aboard the boat that day. The outpouring of concern and prayers from everyone on the forum here has been very much appreciated. Thanks again to everyone who asked, inquired, followed on the radio and prayed for the victim, his family and everyone involved. Let's give our support and gratitude to the guys over on the Down Under and help give them better memories ahead this season. Do as the victim would want us to do and that's get back out there and do some badass diving!!!! He was a perpetually smiling, sweet older man with a passion for diving, so lets not let him down.


Any news on the cause??? I would just like to know and get the word out there to learn from any and all events so that we can try not to repeat them. 

That day that we were out there diving, I had went on my first dive and we were on our surface interval when we heard the calls on the radio. That day, I had a lot of sinus and head congestion going on and just felt like crap. Well, because of those calls on the radio, it made me think a little and I dcided to not dive the rest of the day just because I just didn't feel good and I had gunk coming out of every hole in my head. And I did not want to chance anything while feeling bad. So I can say that it did make me think a little more about my own safety that day.


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## Chapman5011

Diving is dangerous. Shit happens sometimes wether it be mechanical or something with the body itself. 
I saw where whack m stack m was talking about an aed. 
The AED only works if the heart is in v fib


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## FelixH

Chapman5011 said:


> Diving is dangerous. Shit happens sometimes wether it be mechanical or something with the body itself.
> I saw where whack m stack m was talking about an aed.
> The AED only works if the heart is in v fib


An AED can also be effective on a V-Tach rhythm. Once the heart goes into asystole (no beat / flatline), the AED is useless unless a shockable rhythm can be regained through CPR and the use of stimulants. I'm no expert, so that is about the extent of my knowledge on the subject.


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## Miss Tradewinds

I'm pretty darn sure Down Under has an AED aboard her. Some of the instructors there teach a Rescue Diver course every month, so it would only make sense to carry an AED, 100% O2, and all your safety bells 'n whistles aboard when they go out whether there are students, customers, or crew. Unfortunately, diving accidents do happen as well as anything else in life. When divers are handed the wavier, I'm curious if people check no for everything just because they want to go diving so badly. I think it's very important that you are totally honest and let them know if you have any medical conditions before you dive because that can mean your life. Even if it's the common cold, you should wait til it passes. Just my 2 cents.


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## AndyS

I don't know any more about this incident other than what I've read on here thus far, but as to people talking about a possible heart attack,I did a bit of reading several years ago on diving deaths & turns out a pretty high percentage were cardiac related & had nothing to do with diving per se. They were waiting to happen anyway whether the person had been diving or not.


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