# Muzzleloader help...



## chaps (Aug 31, 2009)

My good buddy gave me a muzzleloader as an early Christmas present. I was beyond shocked. I know nothing about them. What do you recommend for me to buy to make this a deer killing piece? Thanks for the help.


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

https://escambiarivergunclub.org/groups-and-shooting-disciplines/muzzleloaders/

go hang with these guys for a while... you'll know more than you may want to know..... time very well spent.


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## jaster (Oct 7, 2007)

What type Jon? I have an older CVA takes the 209 primers, I love it. Just changed the scope and plan to try to sight it in tomorrow. It is a tack driver for the first 3 shots or so, then it needs a brush down the tube. 

I have a membership at Escambia river, hopler if you wanna tag along some time its only $10 for guest and blows the place before the bridges out of the water.


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## chaps (Aug 31, 2009)

jaster said:


> What type Jon? I have an older CVA takes the 209 primers, I love it. Just changed the scope and plan to try to sight it in tomorrow. It is a tack driver for the first 3 shots or so, then it needs a brush down the tube.
> 
> I have a membership at Escambia river, hopler if you wanna tag along some time its only $10 for guest and blows the place before the bridges out of the water.


Thanks Jason. 

It's an Optima cva v2

It's a great looking gun! I can't wait to shoot it.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

chaps said:


> . What do you recommend for me to buy to make this a deer killing piece? Thanks for the help.



What to buy: 

A good scope and 1-piece scope mount
50 cal sabots or power belts 
209 primers
blackpowder pellets (easiest/fastest to load)
good cleaning supplies 


I have a T/C Encore magnum BP rifle and use 3 pellets = 150g powder. 
Never over powder beyond the barrels printed limit. 
Not familiar with the one you have, but it's max powder charge is either 100g or 150g. 

I use the white hots pellets, burns cleaner, and 295g bullets. 
There should be some accompanying literature on getting started, read it, as it should tell 
you what they recommend on 1st time loading and shooting, as well as cleaning. Some even have their recommended bullets to use.

Once you get accustomed to it, you might want to try blackhorn 209 powder. It is in powder form so you will need to measure it for each shot (there's a quick measure device you can buy).
But the best thing about blackhorn 209 is that it is non-corrosive, whereas the white hots is corrosive. 
Other B.powders are triple 7 (corrosive) and pyrodex powders (corrosive too I think). 
I don't worry about the corrosive powder because I clean my barrel thoroughly even if I didn't shoot it that day. 
g/l and have some fun


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## chaps (Aug 31, 2009)

CurDog said:


> What to buy:
> 
> A good scope and 1-piece scope mount
> 50 cal sabots or power belts
> ...



Thanks curdog! I think I got it narrowed down.


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## Linkovich (Oct 24, 2007)

My CVA Wolf really likes the following:
250gr Thompson Center Shockwaves
(2) 50gr Triple 7 pellets....100grs total
Remington Kleanbore 209 primer

It's a tac driver with that combo. I could never get the power belts to shoot well for me, but I got new glass this year so I may give them another shot when I sight it in this week


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## billyb (Aug 22, 2012)

I agree with Link. I have always found 2 777 50 pellets behind a 250 TC Shockwave to be very accurate. No need for max loads. I even use that combo in my Optima pistol. No more recoil than my Encore 44 mag.


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## jaster (Oct 7, 2007)

I may need to try some of the shockwaves. I use 2 777 pellets and a Win 209 primer in my cva and the 295 gr powerpelts. 3 to the right were right out of the cleaned oiled barrel. Adjusted scope, brushed it swabbed it the next 3 are close enough to kill a deer at 100yrds!









Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

I have at T/C Omega & an CVA Optima and they both shoot 150gr of Hodgdon Pyrodex (3 pellets) and the 250 gr T/C Shockwave sabots..... max charge shoots more consistantly in both of mine, groups very well and you never notice the difference really....I have never liked the powerbelts, too many people i know have lost too much game they never recovered... 250 gr easily enough to kill our whitetail and 3x bigger game....also, I will wet & dry swab (clean) my barrel after no more than 2 shots and if I am verifying my zero than I clean after every shot... a dirty barrel will affect accuracy... Good luck...


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## gator75 (Aug 11, 2016)

I have a better chance of killing a deer by throwing my CVA wolf at it than shooting at it.


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## Brandon_SPC2 (Aug 4, 2016)

chaps said:


> Thanks Jason.
> 
> It's an Optima cva v2
> 
> It's a great looking gun! I can't wait to shoot it.


This is what I recommend. 

Good cleaning kit but to be honest I just use a regular gun cleaning kit with patches that fit the bore. Because Blackhorn 209 is that easy to clean.

Buy Blackhorn 209 powder (I think Mikes and Walmart sell this powder)

$30-$40 blackhorn speed breech plug 
https://www.westernpowders.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=147

CCI Magnum 209 Shotshell primers https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301515043/cci-primers-209m-shotshell-magnum

250 grain Hornady FTX reloading bullets in .451 caliber ($25 for 100)
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018229522/hornady-ftx-bullets-flex-tip-expanding-box-of-100

and a scale that weighs in grain. You can probably just get a food scale from walmart that can measure in grains.

But do the follwoing load measurements for three shots:
63 grains by WEIGHT (equals 90 grains by volume)
70 grains by WEIGHT (equals 100 grains by volume)
77 grain by WEIGHT (equals 110 grains by volume)
84 grains by WEIGHT (equals 120 grains by volume)

One of those loads you will find something that shoots with 1-1.5 MOA at 100 yards. 

I promise this will help you in the end and you will save money on bullets. Because muzzleloading bullets are expensive and honestly they are pretty much pistol bullet marketed towards muzzleloaders. Plus you do NOT need to clean the muzzleloader as much.


Call Harvesters and let them know you bought some 250 grain .451 caliber bullets for your CVA Optima. They will tell you which ones to buy. Either the ribbed short version or the smooth version. Sabots will make it or break it more than the bullet that is inside the sabot. I had to get the smooth version for my accura. (800) 922-6287 great company to deal with. 
https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/

I included links to everything. CVA has a lot of potential if you are patient and take your time on load development. Picture included was a spur of the moment load I put to together for my Accura.


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Brandon_SPC2 said:


> This is what I recommend.
> 
> Good cleaning kit but to be honest I just use a regular gun cleaning kit with patches that fit the bore. Because Blackhorn 209 is that easy to clean.
> 
> ...



So you're saying to shoot a .45 caliber bullet out of a .50 caliber barrel? I don't see how that will improve on accuracy?


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

CurDog said:


> So you're saying to shoot a .45 caliber bullet out of a .50 caliber barrel? I don't see how that will improve on accuracy?


If you put a 50 cal bullet in a sabot, it ain't going down the barrel! Most ML rounds are .451 and fit into a sabot to make them .50 Cal.

This is what I use!

http://www.barnesbullets.com/muzzleloaders/expander-mz/

Took down elk sized animals just fine!!!


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Seems like alot of extra effort to do what a ready made .50cal sabot/bullet does with half the effort. IDK but think I'll stick to the tried and true .50 powerbelts. g/l


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

CurDog said:


> Seems like alot of extra effort to do what a ready made .50cal sabot/bullet does with half the effort. IDK but think I'll stick to the tried and true .50 powerbelts. g/l


Work what works best for you and your gun! ML's are finicky beasts! But typically getting a good round with a good tight fitting sabot can help in the accuracy department! If your gun shoots fine with PB and you are happy with the results, then stick with them.


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## Brandon_SPC2 (Aug 4, 2016)

CurDog said:


> So you're saying to shoot a .45 caliber bullet out of a .50 caliber barrel? I don't see how that will improve on accuracy?


It's just a 45 caliber bullet in a sabot. It's nothing new and has been out longer than I probably have been alive. Same concept with shotgun slugs. 

I think these have a BC of .210 and a full bore bullet of the same weight like Powerbelt Aerolites have a BC of .174. The 45 caliber bullet will retain velocity more over distance and be less effected to wind. But also I just don't like PBs because of the soft lead they use and are way over priced for ML bullets.


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