# Free ascent?



## No Excuses (Apr 7, 2012)

How often do yall get lost and have to do a free ascent on natural bottom or wrecks like the bridge rubbles? In 4 dives on the bridge rubbles, we have had to do 2 free ascents, and pretty much did one on the russian freighter last week. And do you have any sytem of marking spots or using landmarks to know your way back?


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

You mean ascending without the use of a line. Free ascent is also known as blow and go, which means you're ascending without using your scuba gear, i.e., out of air.

I hardly ever used an anchor line unless we are on a very deep wreck or the current is really ripping. We normally drop a bouy to guide us to the spot then we have the choice to come up following the bouy line or not. That's why I always want someone on the boat watching the bubbles.

If you're diving on a wreck, the first thing that you need to do is to take a bearing to the wreck, in case the visibility is poor, and also note whe the anchor is in relation to the wreck. If you really need to get back to the anchor line and the visibility is really poor, you might take a reel and clip the end to the anchor then drop the reel when you get to the wreck....make sure you remember where you dropped it.  That way, you'll be able to work your way back to the anchor.

If you're diving on a large area (Penhall or live bottom), you're better off exploring the area without having to worry about back tracking. I only recommend this if the seas are faily smooth and you have two persons topside. One to drive the boat and the other guy to keep track of the bubbles. Also, if you're diving in pairs, try to proced in the same direction and stay close to each other. Makes it a lot easier to follow you from topside.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Many of our reefs are difficult to navigate , or are not much fun if you have to keep worrying about where the anchor is. Our crew usually just solves this issue by live boating. We just throw a bouy, and roll 2 divers. They can explore the area at will and then do a free ascent when ready. Boat picks them up when they surface. This method takes some practice and skill, but is really enjoyable when it goes well.....which is usually...Knock on wood.
Added benefit is that you never have to pull an anchor.
Of course you have to have several skilled divers who can also operate a boat and follow/pick up divers without loosing them or running them over.:whistling:
A safety sausage is a good thing to have when you surface.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2011)

That sounds like it would be an awesome way to dive if everyone was skilled enough.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Check this out. Dive Trak Pro. Accurate within a meter and a 750 meter range. Always come back to your starting point.  Last time I checked, they had a system, not quite as sophisticated as this one, accurate to within 2 meters and a range of 1000'. Cost several years ago... 1K. 

http://www.rjeint.com/pdf/Dive-TrakPro_RevF.pdf


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## Plattinum (Sep 16, 2010)

I have performed far more free ascents, then ascents up an anchor line. When on my own boat, if I do anchor, I tie my anchor ball to the anchor line so that the bubble wacther can simply uncleat the anchor line and dump what remains of the line overboard if they need to drive to pick me up. This way they do not have to waste time trying to pull up the anchor or cutting the anchor line if they need to pick me up in a hurry. After being picked up, we return to the floating anchor ball an retrieve the anchor. The bubble watcher is so very important. Make sure they are prepared to deal with possible scenarios before you roll off for your dive. Don't set them up for failure.


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## No Excuses (Apr 7, 2012)

That Dive Trak seems like a pretty cool gizmo, but a little out of my price range (especially since I am only 16). The problem with just throwing a buoy out and going down that is my dad (and me I suppose) are still a little leery about coming back up without any way to know where we would end up in the current, and if any other boats are around that are not paying attention to us in the water. But I guess if the bubble watcher (dad) is really paying attention, it would work great.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

No Excuses said:


> That Dive Trak seems like a pretty cool gizmo, but a little out of my price range (especially since I am only 16). The problem with just throwing a buoy out and going down that is my dad (and me I suppose) are still a little leery about coming back up without any way to know where we would end up in the current, and if any other boats are around that are not paying attention to us in the water. But I guess if the bubble watcher (dad) is really paying attention, it would work great.


 We usually don't have much current here .....if the current is bad we have to choose a reef that IS easy to navagate.....and anchor very close. We still dive in shifts in case something unexpected happens. 
It takes some practice (in a safe location) ....but deploying a safety sausage which is attatched to a small reel is a great way to let everyone on the surface where you are. We usually deploy it when we get to 20'. That way the boat can follow you, other boats avoid you, and you don't have to worry about wheather the current will blow you out of sight during your safety stop. I think this technique is covered in some Advanced Openwater diving classes.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

I usually just anchor. I usually have a mixed bag of skills on board. I have had to do very few ascents away from the anchor line. I have mastered the use of a compass underwater. I will usually swim away from the line in one direction paying attention to the direction on my compass. I then swim back in the other direction. Then will star off from the anchor line again if I have time. Always coming back to the line before heading out in another direction.

But my last trip out was the first time in a long time that I dove a large enough wreck to get lost. I am usually diving small spots where it's impossible to get lost.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

Orion45 said:


> Check this out. Dive Trak Pro. Accurate within a meter and a 750 meter range. Always come back to your starting point.  Last time I checked, they had a system, not quite as sophisticated as this one, accurate to within 2 meters and a range of 1000'. Cost several years ago... 1K.
> 
> We used to have a dive trak many years ago (was called the "Mark Trak" back then), and it worked as well at finding reefs as it did finding the anchor. The sonar "ping" would echo off of anything around you and the receiver didn't know the difference. Did many dives swimming to what we thought was the anchor only to find an old grouper ghetto or car body 100 yards in the opposite direction.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Evensplit said:


> We used to have a dive trak many years ago (was called the "Mark Trak" back then), and it worked as well at finding reefs as it did finding the anchor. The sonar "ping" would echo off of anything around you and the receiver didn't know the difference. Did many dives swimming to what we thought was the anchor only to find an old grouper ghetto or car body 100 yards in the opposite direction.


This is not a sonar. This is a two part transponder/receiver system. First, a small transponder that you attach to the anchor line high enough so that it is above any local obstructions. 10 -15' above the anchor should be sufficient for most applications. The second is a receiver that gives you a direction to the transponder via lit LED's. The receiver is similar to a small flashlight that you point around until the most LED's are lit...then you swim in that direction, always refining the bearings.

The system depicted in the link is larger and more sophisticated that the unit I described above (1K cost) and would be an overkill for most of us.


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

Firefishvideo said:


> Many of our reefs are difficult to navigate , or are not much fun if you have to keep worrying about where the anchor is. Our crew usually just solves this issue by live boating. We just throw a bouy, and roll 2 divers. They can explore the area at will and then do a free ascent when ready. Boat picks them up when they surface. This method takes some practice and skill, but is really enjoyable when it goes well.....which is usually...Knock on wood.
> Added benefit is that you never have to pull an anchor.
> Of course you have to have several skilled divers who can also operate a boat and follow/pick up divers without loosing them or running them over.:whistling:
> A safety sausage is a good thing to have when you surface.


This is the method I prefer for a large area like bridge rubble or natural bottom. Divers can explore and roam at-will, and the boat follows the bubbles.
Sometimes, we'll shoot a bag or sausage to the surface on a reel when starting our ascent to help ensure the boat knows where we are.


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

We live boat. 2 divers per dive. 2 up, 2 down (or 1 down). When it is me and my usual dive buddy, we follow the buoy marker to the reef and immediately go in opposite directions. We almost never come up together. I've used my anchor once so far this year. Fourth of July fireworks show.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Orion45 said:


> This is not a sonar. This is a two part transponder/receiver system. First, a small transponder that you attach to the anchor line high enough so that it is above any local obstructions. 10 -15' above the anchor should be sufficient for most applications. The second is a receiver that gives you a direction to the transponder via lit LED's. The receiver is similar to a small flashlight that you point around until the most LED's are lit...then you swim in that direction, always refining the bearings.
> 
> The system depicted in the link is larger and more sophisticated that the unit I described above (1K cost) and would be an overkill for most of us.


Its a high tech sonar, since it includes some coded signals with its pulse...but still works on sonar technology....its the ONLY technology we have so far that can transmit a signal under water (more than a few feet). Sonar is not a line of sight kind of thing...it travels in a wave pattern, so reflectance is going to happen....just don't know if their attempt to add a data stream to the signal would help nullify that or not. R.O.V navigations systems use multiple transmitters to locate very accuratly in 3 dimensions......also acustic technology.
Any Navy Seals on here?? They would problably have first hand knowledge of how well these things work. Pointless anyway...since the tracking unit looks like it would be a P.I.T.A to carry around + expensive.
If its that serious I'll just get out my $50 Dive Rite Wreck Reel and start laying line.:whistling:


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## below me (Jan 13, 2012)

bread crumbs


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Firefishvideo said:


> Its a high tech sonar, since it includes some coded signals with its pulse...but still works on sonar technology....its the ONLY technology we have so far that can transmit a signal under water (more than a few feet). Sonar is not a line of sight kind of thing...it travels in a wave pattern, so reflectance is going to happen....just don't know if their attempt to add a data stream to the signal would help nullify that or not. R.O.V navigations systems use multiple transmitters to locate very accuratly in 3 dimensions......also acustic technology.
> Any Navy Seals on here?? They would problably have first hand knowledge of how well these things work. Pointless anyway...since the tracking unit looks like it would be a P.I.T.A to carry around + expensive.
> If its that serious I'll just get out my $50 Dive Rite Wreck Reel and start laying line.:whistling:


It's actually an accoustic target transponder paired with a transponder interrogator. This system is quite different from what Evensplit described since his system consisted of one component that relied on active sonar to locate objects underwater by the return echo. The unit I previously described is similar to the one in the link and consisted of two components no larger that a small handheld flashlight.

In my response to Evensplit's post, I really should have used the term *active so*nar vice simply *sonar*. 

Seems to me that a 1 meter accuracy and 750 meters effective range means that the company must have worked out the kinks.

A cost of 1K for the older, less sophisticated, and much more compact system seems quite reasonable considering the alternative...floating alone in the GOM for a few days...especially for those folks who make it a practice to dive and leave the boat unattended.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Orion45 said:


> It's actually an accoustic target transponder paired with a transponder interrogator. This system is quite different from what Evensplit described since his system consisted of one component that relied on active sonar to locate objects underwater by the return echo. The unit I previously described is similar to the one in the link and consisted of two components no larger that a small handheld flashlight.
> 
> In my response to Evensplit's post, I really should have used the term *active so*nar vice simply *sonar*.
> 
> ...


 http://www.desertstar.com/Products_product.aspx?intProductID=10
This is the device which was developed from the one I believe Evensplit was describing....Transmitter AND receiver.
....I belieive THIS one is the one you THOUGHT he was talking about....just a distance measuring device.


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## marmidor (Mar 15, 2008)

I must say that this pissing match is the ABSOLUTE MOST INFORMATIVE THREAD I HAVE READ! Thanks guys!


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Lets add a personal eprib for divers to this steaming pile of tech!
http://www.mikesdivestore.com/1701/Sea-Marshall-AU9-500MW-Personal-Locator-Beacon---EPIRB.html
This one really would make me feel safe....much better than the strobe without which I NEVER leave the boat.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Firefishvideo said:


> http://www.desertstar.com/Products_product.aspx?intProductID=10
> This is the device which was developed from the one I believe Evensplit was describing....Transmitter AND receiver.
> ....I belieive THIS one is the one you THOUGHT he was talking about....just a distance measuring device.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0GX5YJJPPKCGNGF1NPB6


There were a couple of diving product manufacturer's that made these many years ago but I believe they are no longer available. The system to which I was referring is similar to the one from Desert Star (your first link) but it was much more compact. It was made by RJE International - the same company that makes the current high dollar system. I don't know if they still make the former system. I'll try to contact them tomorrow and see if it is still in production.

I found a PDF for the Mark Trak. This is similar to the one made by RJE International that I described. Note how compact this system is when compared to the more sophisticated one.... about the size of a small flashlight. 

I reread Evensplit's post and I see now that he was referring to a two component system. The resulting directional ambiguity led me to believe that he was referring to a system similar to the one on your Amazon link. My bad.

Could it be that the directional ambiguity was caused by the transponder being placed to close to the bottom? Hopefully, the newer systems have worked out all the kinks.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

marmidor said:


> I must say that this pissing match is the ABSOLUTE MOST INFORMATIVE THREAD I HAVE READ! Thanks guys!


No pissing match here.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Another tip is to put a bright flashing light on your anchor line about 30' off the bottom. I use the same lights that some folks use for night diving and emergency beacons. I buy the brightest ones I can find.


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## marmidor (Mar 15, 2008)

Orion45 said:


> No pissing match here.


I know my friend I'm just picking at you guys. I admire the passion that y'all have for our sport! Thanks to you all!!


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Firefishvideo said:


> Lets add a personal eprib for divers to this steaming pile of tech!
> http://www.mikesdivestore.com/1701/Sea-Marshall-AU9-500MW-Personal-Locator-Beacon---EPIRB.html
> This one really would make me feel safe....much better than the strobe without which I NEVER leave the boat.


How about this waterproof to 425' GPS radio for divers. A two-way VHF radio for everyday use and doubles as an emergency device by broadcasting your GPS coordinates to all vessels in an 8-mile are when the emergency button is activated. Price $299. 

https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/store/home.aspx?id=196


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

WhackUmStackUm said:


> Another tip is to put a bright flashing light on your anchor line about 30' off the bottom. I use the same lights that some folks use for night diving and emergency beacons. I buy the brightest ones I can find.


I'm surprised that such a low tech tip came from you. What's the matter...that side scanning sonar and rebreather equipment broke your piggy bank? :whistling:


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

*WackUmStackUm*,

In reference to your tip. How well does it work in low vis conditions? What brand of strobe are you using? Depth rating? I know Mares has a strobe but it's only rated to 130'. Not really an issue if you attach it 30 to 40' above the anchor.


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## SaltAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Orion I read some in depth reviews of that gps enabled radio. On a flat calm day the range didn't reach 8 miles. On a rough day 1 mile was the best they could get. Decent toy for hailing "your" vessel. But I wouldn't trust my life to it.


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## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

No Excuses said:


> How often do yall get lost and have to do a free ascent on natural bottom or wrecks like the bridge rubbles? In 4 dives on the bridge rubbles, we have had to do 2 free ascents, and pretty much did one on the russian freighter last week. And do you have any sytem of marking spots or using landmarks to know your way back?


We accend without a guide almost every dive. We just mark the spot with a bandit bouy and use the string as a guide to decend on and find the spot. After finding the wreck, we pretty well ignore the bouy for the rest of the dive. The person in the boat will hang around the bouy or chase the bubbles around on the surface if he can keep track of the bubbles which can be tough if it is choppy.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

For all you that say that you live boat. Do you do the same for a small private spot such as a coop or pyramid? Not much roaming around on these spots. I guess I don't dive big spots enough to live boat it.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Orion45 said:


> I'm surprised that such a low tech tip came from you. What's the matter...that side scanning sonar and rebreather equipment broke your piggy bank? :whistling:


lol - Yeah, something like that.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Telum Pisces said:


> For all you that say that you live boat. Do you do the same for a small private spot such as a coop or pyramid? Not much roaming around on these spots. I guess I don't dive big spots enough to live boat it.


We usually live boat on private spots. We drop a buoy on the spot as a guide.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Orion45 said:


> *WackUmStackUm*,
> 
> In reference to your tip. How well does it work in low vis conditions?


It depends on the vis and how far you are away from the line you are. I would say that on average, I can find the line 50' farther out from the point where the line disappears in the gloom.



Orion45 said:


> What brand of strobe are you using? Depth rating? I know Mares has a strobe but it's only rated to 130'. Not really an issue if you attach it 30 to 40' above the anchor.


I like the Zeagle "signal strobe light" the best.


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## WhackUmStackUm (Jan 31, 2010)

Attaching a couple of lengths of yellow survey tape to the anchor line 30-50' off the bottom also helps you find the line in low vis. They become streamers when there is any current at all.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

Orion45 said:


> This is not a sonar. This is a two part transponder/receiver system. First, a small transponder that you attach to the anchor line high enough so that it is above any local obstructions. 10 -15' above the anchor should be sufficient for most applications. The second is a receiver that gives you a direction to the transponder via lit LED's. The receiver is similar to a small flashlight that you point around until the most LED's are lit...then you swim in that direction, always refining the bearings.
> 
> The system depicted in the link is larger and more sophisticated that the unit I described above (1K cost) and would be an overkill for most of us.


Yep...that is what we had. The transponder sends a pulse just like a sonar, and it bounces off of anything in range. With time we learned how to distinguish between the original pulse and the false one, but the false one became helpful in finding a wreck or reef in low vis.


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## FelixH (Sep 28, 2007)

Telum Pisces said:


> For all you that say that you live boat. Do you do the same for a small private spot such as a coop or pyramid? Not much roaming around on these spots. I guess I don't dive big spots enough to live boat it.


Yep, it's especially effective on small spots, too.
Saves time and effort by not having to drop/set/retrieve the anchor.
Get to the spot, drop bouy (if you like), drop divers, tool around the spot while watching bubbles, pick up divers, move on.

Live boating also has benefits on sharky dives.
I've started keeping a safety sausage clipped to my stringer. If a shark gets too aggressive, send the stringer to the surface (boat grabs it), and the shark leaves you alone during your ascent.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

SaltAddict said:


> Orion I read some in depth reviews of that gps enabled radio. On a flat calm day the range didn't reach 8 miles. On a rough day 1 mile was the best they could get. Decent toy for hailing "your" vessel. But I wouldn't trust my life to it.


I was just adding some fuel to the high tech pile. However, that's some good info you passed out.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Evensplit said:


> Yep...that is what we had. The transponder sends a pulse just like a sonar, and it bounces off of anything in range. With time we learned how to distinguish between the original pulse and the false one, but the false one became helpful in finding a wreck or reef in low vis.


As I said, I misread your comments. I am curious to find out how well the newer systems work.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

WhackUmStackUm said:


> It depends on the vis and how far you are away from the line you are. I would say that on average, I can find the line 50' farther out from the point where the line disappears in the gloom.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the Zeagle "signal strobe light" the best.


Thanks.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Spoke with an RJE International salesman today concerning the Dive Trak. The Dive Trak is no longer being made due to low volume sales. The company is now making the Dive Trak Pro which is oriented to commercial consumers. The Dive Trak Pro sysytem retails for about...... 10K.


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## El Kabong (May 9, 2012)

While I consider myself to be a decent navigator, one of my dive buddies is an EXCELLENT navigator, and we still sometimes lose the anchor line on some of the bigger spots if we're hunting. I've taken to running a reel that bisects the reef. This at least gives me an idea of where the ends of the reef are, as all I have to do is find the line.


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## ucf_motorcycle (Jul 12, 2008)

Cheap solution:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tech-Cave-W...333?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc72e3e3d

Works just as well as that $1000 beacon but with no batteries to worry about. 

I can relate to the problem. Even with good compass skills, when the vis is low it only takes a little current to throw you off course enough to miss the anchor line entirely.


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## lobsterman (Sep 30, 2007)

99% of my dives have been bounce dives. Two up, two down and follow bubbles.


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