# A Yamaha vs Etec Debate



## Badbagger (Apr 27, 2011)

Just curious, I had a debate with a friend who is looking at purchasing a new engine for his boat. He's looking to buy a new 115. He's pretty much decided on a Yamaha F115 which indeed is a great engine. I asked him if he looked into the Etec 115 and he said he did. I forget what the exact price difference was but the Yamaha was about $1800 more. He doesn't know much about the Etec and has the mentality it's an old smokey 2 stroke. Wrong but I couldn't seem to convince him lol. The Yamaha while a really good engine is heavier by about 40 lbs, costs more to maintain, is a bit slower out of the hole by the nature of the beast and above and beyond it all, costs a hell of a lot more money. I asked him if he worked hard for his cash lol and I knew the answer already. I told him to look hard before he jumps.

Now I'm curious and pose the question: Would you put out $1800 more of your hard earned cash for a Yamaha vs the Etec? It's really easy to play keyboard jockey this I know, but try to answer honestly. I know the Yamaha has a better resale due to popularity but it's a much bigger investment. So honestly, would you be willing to pony up another $1800 of your hard earned dollars for the Yamaha and if so, why ?

Granted it's a debate that will go on and on, I'm just curious. Personally, I would not pay another $1800 more followed up with another say $300 to $350 bill for the 20 hour service within say 6 weeks of use.

So what say you ?


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## Pompano Joe (Jan 28, 2009)

My Etech was great while it was running. Computer board went out just out of warrantee. $1600! Now a yard ornament. Won't buy another.


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

Yes I would! Most places will do the 20 hour for free if you bought the engine from them.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I would pay for the Yamaha. I have never heard of a 2 stroke costing less to maintain than a 4 stroke.

I have never had or run an Etec, but I have had several Black Bitches.


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## DOUBLE "D" & LV (Oct 2, 2007)

Yamaha..... Yamaha..... Yamaha. A 20 hr is not that much. I do not work on Ficht/E-tec(glorified/modified Ficht... same motor with some modifications). Chatting with mechanics that do work on them, they do not like them either. The 4 stroke will be the most reliable and has the better support network.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Pompano Joe said:


> My Etech was great while it was running. Computer board went out just out of warrantee. $1600! Now a yard ornament. Won't buy another.


I'll take that yard ornament off your hands... Really did you contac BRP with your problem If not I would. I have heard from owners that BRP was very good about major problems out of warranty just like yours if you complain. 

I am 100% happy with my 2010 150 E-Tec with close to 700 hard run hours on it. Plus E-tecs are the only ones that software is available to check and monitor the engine for any reason you want. You don't even have to start the engine to get a complete report of all prior operations of the engine in a PDF format. Plus at this time they are offering a longer warranty AND all the electronic monitoring gauges that cost $1000. Like I said before Keep the tank full and use them regularly and any engine will treat you right. :thumbup:


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

DOUBLE "D" & LV said:


> Yamaha..... Yamaha..... Yamaha. A 20 hr is not that much. I do not work on Ficht/E-tec(glorified/modified Ficht... same motor with some modifications). Chatting with mechanics that do work on them, they do not like them either. The 4 stroke will be the most reliable and has the better support network.


That's a hell of a statement from a Marine mechanic. Why wouldn't you want to work on an engine that has (In your opinion) so many problems. Must mean you don't have the experience to do it. Like my previous post even someone like you can get the software for an E-tec. Can anyone get any software without a business for any other brand legally. I assume you have diagnostic software for all the newer engines you work on or are you a parts changer? :thumbup:


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## davetnrmm103 (May 23, 2012)

I like my 115 E-tec ok. Quietest 2 stroke i've ever heard. Doesn't pull with as much snap as you would think. Runs smooth and gets pretty good mileage. The recommended oil for it is crazy expensive though. My next one will be 4 stroke.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

Yamaha F115
106.2CI
24amp alt
Timing Belt
401lbs
2.15 gear ratio

------------------------------
Suzuki DF115

118.9CI
40amp alt
Oil Bath "Timing Chain"
416lbs
2.29 gear ratio


-------------------------------------------------------------

Etec 115

105CI
50amp alt
2 stroke - No cam or timing chain
375lb
2.0 gear ratio


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

if im buying an engine for anything at all ill opt for the two smoker if i can, they're easy to work on and they're performance advantages sell it for me every time, you have my sympathy on the electronics issue but thats not a fault of the engine being a two stroke its likely just a lemon board, im always skeptical of electronics and its just a gamble you play now-a-days with any engine, its not like the f115 yamaha doesnt have any pcb assemblies that could do the same thing as the evinrude. smoker for life right here ppl light weight and more power possible in a smaller package.

that being said i hate that the marine motor industry is so lazy with the motors, the same block is usually used in these motors we're talking about for the 90-115-and-150 hp classed motors, lazy engineering if you ask me


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Yeh, some people offer the 20 hour check on 4 strokes free. BUT wait till you get the next one where they have to set all the valves. I have been told over $1000. (I have never and never will own a 4 stroke outboard). I like adding oil to my 2 banger it keeps the hinges lubricated on the access door to get to the tank. Close to 700 hours on mine running fine my e-tec FIRES every time a piston hits top dead center, How about that heavier 4 stroke that FIRES every other time?


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

sealark said:


> Yeh, some people offer the 20 hour check on 4 strokes free. BUT wait till you get the next one where they have to set all the valves. I have been told over $1000. (I have never and never will own a 4 stroke outboard). I like adding oil to my 2 banger it keeps the hinges lubricated on the access door to get to the tank. Close to 700 hours on mine running fine my e-tec FIRES every time a piston hits top dead center, How about that heavier 4 stroke that FIRES every other time?



no valves no problems right?


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## Clam (Nov 10, 2007)

I think a lot more two strokes would be in production if it wasn't for the EPA. I was always told the harder you run a two stroke, the more they like it. When I order my new boat it will have an etec.


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

you're correct clam, after my time on dirtbikes thats a mild way to put it, the hotter a two stroke is built the more it likes to be wrung out, and i promise you none of the two stroke outboards are being pushed anywhere close to their dimensional limits, not when a single cylinder 125 cc liquid cooled two stroke can make upper 30's to low 40 hp numbers.


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## Badbagger (Apr 27, 2011)

I've got to jump on the Etec bandwagon. Strong and simple. The Etec has met or exceeded EPA requirements for emissions. Yamaha is nice but not $1800 MORE nice. I can't see getting back say even $1k MORE for the exact same boat because one has the Yamaha and one has the Etec.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Badbagger said:


> I've got to jump on the Etec bandwagon. Strong and simple. The Etec has met or exceeded EPA requirements for emissions. Yamaha is nice but not $1800 MORE nice. I can't see getting back say even $1k MORE for the exact same boat because one has the Yamaha and one has the Etec.


Maybe you can save a little more money on an E-Tec. Call the below man they are in Perry Ga and will give you the best price that I have ever found. They will rig your boat for less also they must rig the eng. Tax free just show a Fl drivers lic. Tell Scott Ron Kruse sent you it means nothing for me except it looks good. I have purchased 5 engines through them including my present 150 2010 E-tec. You can leave Pensacola at about 5 AM and be back before dark with the new engine installed.( Hopefully if you don't want to push the trip there is a motel within walking distance of shop.:thumbup::thumbup: 

The Sports Center
Scott James
1-888-262-2628


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## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

Never had an Etec, only been in a single boat with Etec's on it. I got home, I have twin Yamaha F150's. I have not had a single problem. They are machines, you treat any machine with care and they will treat you right. Keep the maint. up and you will have a good time. Like anything else, treat it right and it will treat you right....


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## Ocean Master (May 20, 2008)

95% of the time problems arise from the fuel and fuel system on any outboard. You gotta' use them often turning over the fuel.

If you ever have an Etec that is losing power or stumbling it is most often the tiny fuel return filter that should be part of the regular maintenance schedule but it's not.


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## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

After seeing a friends etec sit in the shop for over 6 months of the year he owned it I will not have one. So much for evinrude keeping you on the water longer. I love my 2 strokes. my next engine purchase will be an Optimax XS. But for evinrude vs yamaha I say get the Yammy.


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## DOUBLE "D" & LV (Oct 2, 2007)

sealark said:


> That's a hell of a statement from a Marine mechanic. Why wouldn't you want to work on an engine that has (In your opinion) so many problems. Must mean you don't have the experience to do it. Like my previous post even someone like you can get the software for an E-tec. Can anyone get any software without a business for any other brand legally. I assume you have diagnostic software for all the newer engines you work on or are you a parts changer? :thumbup:


It is a statement. :thumbsup: Sorry to offend your engine.  When Ficht came out, I studied them some and determined at that time I did not like the way they were designed and decided not to work on them. As we know, they had major issues. When Bombardier bought out the bankrupt OMC due to the Ficht technology, and came out with the E-tec, I studied those with a desire to work on the new product, but to my dismay, when I looked at the engines, they were still deigned the same way as the Ficht with a few modifications. The spark plugs have to be indexed correctly to get the proper combustion in the cylinders. In order to achieve this, one may have to go through three times the amount plugs to get six that are correctly indexed. One of the upgrades to the engines were deflector pins installed in the heads to prevent fuel from being injected directly onto the spark plug tip which was causing carbon fouling in the Ficht. There are a few other items, but no need to get this too lengthy. I feel it is a poorly designed engine (yes, my opinion) that will most likely evolve to a better design. However, until that time, I will not work on them. If you do want the diagnostic software for any other brand, I will be happy to get it for you legally. Moreover, no I am not a parts changer, I am a diagnostician. :thumbup:


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## TheCaptKen (Mar 14, 2011)

Do both, would take the Yamaha over the E tec any day, much easier to work on and parts are cheaper.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Double d, I have changed myself my 150 E-tec plugs 3 times in close to 700 hours and have used 18 plugs TOTAL never had one plug that couldn't be removed and tried in another hole if it didn't line up correctly. And I didn't take you statement as an insult against my E- Tec. I looked at it and said to myself, Now there's someone I would never take an engine to or ask a question about one. Sure the other brands are great engines also but why would a mechanic not want to work on one. I know you have already told us. BRP is a very conscious company about putting out a quality product and they have made a lot of changes since that first FICT that wasn't there product to start with. I have always been a Johnrude lover from the 50s and I guess I always will. Good luck with your business.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## DAWGONIT (Jan 16, 2009)

My .02.

I shopped around and researched plenty before repowering last year....repowered w/ the more modern Yamahas, fly-by-wire and digital technology compared to the analog and linkage technology setup when purchased new. 

I even called the yacht manufacturer and discussed options there as well in what they had seen in the repower arena. Granted I'm maneuvering twins on the big girl, thus twice the $ and generally purchasing repair/maintenance parts in twos, vice onesies, I was also able to take advantage of buyer incentives, maintenance package (as discussed above for break in & discounts on 1st year services using the purchasing company), the extended warranty as opposed to discounts on the purchase price. There are some great deals out there IMHO, just takes some pointing as SEALARK referred, and brand loyalty plays a factor too.

Have been on many friends other vessels that have o/b's including: Suzuki, Mercury, Honda, E-Tec, as well as the inboards: Man, Cummings, Cats, John Deere etc....They all require both preventive and routine maintenance to keep them going.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

> BUT wait till you get the next one where they have to set all the valves. I have been told over $1000. (I have never and never will own a 4 stroke outboard).


I spend less on ....or about the same for changing the oil in 2 - DF140's than it would cost for 1gal of XD100 oil.

Valve adjust? The first one is more a check and talked to many that have said they don't need it.


Now lets go back to my original post and look at gear ratio.

You will note the the Suzzy has the lowest gear ratio. That allows it to swing a bigger prop. Bigger prop gets more "traction". More traction get's a better Holeshot and stays hooked up.

Page 3 Offset Driveshaft and how they get the lower gear ratio.

http://www.suzukimarine.com/~/media/Marine/Brochures/Suzuki-DF115-140-Brochure.ashx






> Optimax XS


Fast, Noisy and hard to shift!


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## Badbagger (Apr 27, 2011)

Lots of debate lol. I talked to a local dealer who sells them both. In short he told me and I quote "they all break and yes, Yamaha's break down just as easily as the rest of them". I guess it's a Ford/Chevy or Toyota/Nissan debate. They're all good and we all have our loyalties for our own personal reasons. As stated, just keep them in good shape and do the maintenance and they'll treat you right. I've got to agree. I've got an 02 Toyota Tacoma that runs like a top and I just do the maintenance and zero issues with 113000 on the clock.


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

All the major brands are good engines, its all about how well they are taken care of IMO. I've have numerous mercurys and now have an etech and the only problem I've ever had has been ethanol related and was an easy $20 fix. Just use clean fuel and keep it lubed.


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

the debate boils more down to strokes not folks, yamaha and evinrude both have two strokes, the original question was a four stroke 115 vs a 2 stroke 115, hands down the 2 stroke weighs less, 

Dry Weight F115LA = 182 kg (401lbs) F115XA 185 kg (408 lbs) 

E115DPL 375 lbs /
170 kgs 20" / 508 mm

oops. posted the f150 data by accident,


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## bayougrande (Oct 4, 2007)

if i'm looking for a two stroke......yami saltwater series all day long!!!:thumbup: IMO best two stroke ever built. BY FAR!!!!!!!!!Carb/or/fuel injected. (were not talk'n HPDI) But yami 115 4-stroke vs. ETEC. I'll take the yami all day every day..:thumbsup:................And i was raised on the evinrudes/johnsons. 
----And there are motors that you couldn't give me also----


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## wflgator (Oct 1, 2007)

I haven't had any Rudes but I have had Yammies and I am sold on their reliability.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

Back in '03 - '04....when the manufactures were really starting to get into the swing of building 4 strokes.

The debates marched on that the 4 strokes just didn't have the low end torque like the 2 strokes. This was on THT.

People just kept saying 4 stroke. When I finally Pryed the brand they were talking about out of them it was a Yamaha.

This goes back to gear ratio, is where I'm going with this.

The Suzzy's as I've said are all geared lower and swing a larger prop. This solved the problem.

You want to see high hours on outboards that are used all the time. Go look at the motors that Seatow is using. 3000 + hours.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

No more comments I'm happy and sticking with JOHNRUDES No matter who makes them.


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