# Time for change-- Florida buck limits.



## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm probably not going to have many fans for this, but I think something needs to be done. 

The fact that legally, you can shoot 2 bucks a day, every day, for almost 130 days in Florida is insane to me.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am a meat hunter first, and a horn hunter second... so don't think I am trying to turn Florida in to the Boone and Crockett hunting preserve.

I always hear the talk, several dozen times a year (many on here) that there are too many does in Florida, and the state needs to allow us to shoot more does to even out the "doe to buck ratio"... well, instead of that, why don't we just shoot less bucks? I don't know about you guys, but I enjoy seeing deer every time I go to the woods, regardless of whether I get to shoot or not.

I would like to propose a tag system in conjunction with your hunting license. 

Archery season would go just as it does now. All antlerless deer out of spots are legal, and bucks with a 10" main beam, or a 3 points of 1" or greater are legal. 2 deer a day, a combination of antlerless or antlered, whatever way you choose. 

Come thanksgiving day, the tag system begins. Tags would be non transferable, plastic stickers that many states already use. 

You will be allowed 5 antlered tags (10" main beam/3 on one side), and 2 antlerless tags (anything out of spots).

You can fill 2 tags a day if you choose, but that is all. 

Get rid of doe days, and have the system universal for public and private land. Enforce stiff penalties for not tagging your deer upon recovery to ensure there is as little abuse of the system as possible. 

Now, I'm really not one to preach for more regulations... but from daylight until 10am yesterday I heard 12 shots around the area I was hunting, most were within 700 yards, and all were within a mile. Let's say 2 of those shots were just people shooting, so now we are down to 10 shots. Let's say 2 more were not shots at a buck, maybe a coyote or a doe? Now we have 8 shots... let's say half of those guys miss. That's still 4 bucks being shot in one morning... I know that's very hypothetical, but come on... we all see what gets posted here on the daily. That's only a fraction of what gets shot.

7 deer a year per person during rifle/muzzleloader/primative weapon, plus whatever you kill in the 30 days of archery. That is plenty. 

This would also allow the tag holder to not be limited to strict doe day weekend. Let's be real here, sometimes we have more important things to do then hunt. This gives you the option to fill your doe tag when you see fit, and not be limited by work, weather or other commitments. 


I'm just kind of thinking out loud here... I doubt I will see a system such as this put in place, but I think it would be beneficial in my opinion, for whatever that is worth.

Thoughts? Opinions? Let's hear it.


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

Seems feasible. But before it's in place, I need one year where I kill 15 bucks, then tags can start.


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## MaxxT (May 9, 2015)

I agree with you to a point. There are so many illegal hunters and poachers in FL it is crazy. There is a 4 deer possession limit(it does not say for season or a limit) but no one pays attention to it as there are no tags or records kept.

I don't think there is a real deer count in FL, the limits should be set by the numbers if you can trust them. I think most states have a 1 or 2 buck limit and the same w does, all tagged and counted. I cannot imagine the # of illegal deer taken across the US yearly, it is just too easy.

I do agree a limit needs to be set(2 racked bucks and does as population dictates), I don't agree archery should be separate, your # of deer allowed is the number no matter the season. I do agree if there are too many does a tag and quota system for non private lands instead of doe days would be best.

Good luck getting this passed in FL


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

I agree, I'm all about killing some deer for the table, but from what I see, the goofy antler restriction yall have is hurting ya.

Seems like all the "good potential" young deer are being killed and the goofy looking bucks are getting a free pass because they have screwed up horns. 

I ain't gonna toot Mississippi's horn, I don't quite Agree with 100% of their management practices, but for the most part, it seems to be working (besides the number of does being taken from certain areas of the state) 

I think a 3 buck and 5 Doe limit is good, with bucks having to have a 10" spread or 15" main beam, I think this would let most bucks live to at least get to their 2.5 or 3.5 year birthday before they get shot, just my opinion, I am by far any deer expert.


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## hurricanes1 (Nov 11, 2009)

I would like to see one tag system for the entire season. You would get three antlerless tags and three antlered tags. You could take all six in one day or however you want until you get all six.


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

Oh and another thing, Every deer killed on a Mississippi WMA or refuge is required to "checked in ", with the deers stats, I know they all don't get signed in , but it does give the state some kind of numbers to work with.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I am just glad that we can't shoot spikes any more... now, granted, I see a lot of bucks that meet the antler restrictions are still only 2.5yr old bucks, but it's better than shooting every 60lb spike that meanders out of the thicket.

Like I said, I am a meat hunter first, and a horn hunter second... but what yields more meat, a 150 lb 3yr old? Or a 60lb 1yr old?


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm good with all that. Maybe be able to purchase a certain number of non transferable doe tags. Then you can add a few more to the freezer 

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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

delta dooler said:


> Oh and another thing, Every deer killed on a Mississippi WMA or refuge is required to "checked in ", with the deers stats, I know they all don't get signed in , but it does give the state some kind of numbers to work with.


It'll never happen on a place like blackwater. At least 300 entry/egress points, and 100s of parcels of private land in between.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

lettheairout said:


> I'm good with all that. Maybe be able to purchase a certain number of non transferable doe tags. Then you can add a few more to the freezer
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I'd be fine with buying 3 more for $25 a tag.


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

Put that 25 dollars back into opening up a check station/cleaning facility 

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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

John B. said:


> It'll never happen on a place like blackwater. At least 300 entry/egress points, and 100s of parcels of private land in between.


I know what you're saying, we have some WMA's like that, larger ones may have a dozen "check in " boards, I think the only think that makes most of the deer get checked in is the fact that if you are caught with a deer that hasn't been checked in, you'll get fined for it and they can/will take your deer.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Hell, I've hunted blackwater for 5 years and never seen an FWC officer until this year at the hutton unit quota hunt... didn't get checked.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

I say we get rid of the deer permit, get rid of the archery permits, muzzeloader, etc. You have your small game license then buy a license per species for big game animals. Deer license you get 3 buck tags and two doe tags say somewhere around $75. A max of 8 tags. Which is a hell of a lot of deer to shoot during rifle season. Any additional tag after that will cost anywhere from $30-$50 just like other states depending on sex. If you really need to kill eight deer a year then go ahead but you pay for the other three tags and this will supplement part of the conservation towards public lands etc. And for the people already crying about a tag o well you spend countless of dollars hunting the tag is very minor.

I also believe less bucks need to be shot but more does need to be shot. I love seeing deer but I also love seeing buck to when you balance the herd it makes for a better rut, a better chance of bigger bodied deer, and well a side benefit bigger antlers.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I say we get rid of the deer permit, get rid of the archery permits, muzzeloader, etc. You have your small game license then buy a license per species for big game animals. Deer license you get 3 buck tags and two doe tags say somewhere around $75. A max of 8 tags. Which is a hell of a lot of deer to shoot during rifle season. Any additional tag after that will cost anywhere from $30-$50 just like other states depending on sex. If you really need to kill eight deer a year then go ahead but you pay for the other three tags and this will supplement part of the conservation towards public lands etc. And for the people already crying about a tag o well you spend countless of dollars hunting the tag is very minor.


Yeah I hate the excuse of "we hunt to feed ourselves" hunting is a hell of a lot more expensive than buying hamburger from the store, no matter how you try to justify it.


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

John B. said:


> Hell, I've hunted blackwater for 5 years and never seen an FWC officer until this year at the hutton unit quota hunt... didn't get checked.


THAT, Is a problem!! The outlaws know it too.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

delta dooler said:


> THAT, Is a problem!! The outlaws know it too.


Drive down hurricane lake road at 3am... you'll see plenty of q-beams...


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

John B. said:


> Drive down hurricane lake road at 3am... you'll see plenty of q-beams...


Oh I know, I grew up off Deaton Bridge rd, I know how much outlawing goes on


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

John B. said:


> Drive down hurricane lake road at 3am... you'll see plenty of q-beams...


There is a field half way on Pleasant Home Church road that has two signs that say "You shoot we prosecute" followed by "8 prosecuted so far" lol


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> There is a field half way on Pleasant Home Church road that has two signs that say "You shoot we prosecute" followed by "8 prosecuted so far" lol


I never see shit in that field.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

John B. said:


> I never see shit in that field.


hahaha :whistling:


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## skullmount1988 (Dec 13, 2010)

John B. said:


> Hell, I've hunted blackwater for 5 years and never seen an FWC officer until this year at the hutton unit quota hunt... didn't get checked.


Just cause you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Trust me I know.


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## skullmount1988 (Dec 13, 2010)

They missed one in that field


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## skullmount1988 (Dec 13, 2010)

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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

skullmount1988 said:


> View attachment 679890
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


I'm curious to how they do it. I wonder if they have cameras set up.... I always drive hoping to see the number increase lol


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

Go by tonight and fire a round off. You will see how they do it 

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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

skullmount1988 said:


> Just cause you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Trust me I know.


Black f150? Lol...


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## skullmount1988 (Dec 13, 2010)

John B. said:


> Black f150? Lol...


No not him. Those Fwc guys are sneaky. But I used to like playing cat and mouse with em. I won more times than they did.


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

" Now, I'm really not one to preach for more regulations... but from daylight until 10am yesterday I heard 12 shots around the area I was hunting, most were within 700 yards, and all were within a mile. Let's say 2 of those shots were just people shooting, so now we are down to 10 shots. Let's say 2 more were not shots at a buck, maybe a coyote or a doe? Now we have 8 shots... let's say half of those guys miss. That's still 4 bucks being shot in one morning... I know that's very hypothetical, but come on... we all see what gets posted here on the daily. That's only a fraction of what gets shot.

Thoughts? Opinions? Let's hear it. "

1. Sure sounds like you want more regulations.
2. Do know that this or any forum is not supposed to be a representative count of deer killed.
3. While I have not killed one this season, and I know of several people who have shot greater than 6 , that doesn't bother me. As long as the meat is used.
4. Are you complaining because you did not see the number of deer, you think you should have seen?
5. If people are pouching, more rules will not change that. Do you also support more gun regulation?


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)




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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

submariner said:


> " Now, I'm really not one to preach for more regulations... but from daylight until 10am yesterday I heard 12 shots around the area I was hunting, most were within 700 yards, and all were within a mile. Let's say 2 of those shots were just people shooting, so now we are down to 10 shots. Let's say 2 more were not shots at a buck, maybe a coyote or a doe? Now we have 8 shots... let's say half of those guys miss. That's still 4 bucks being shot in one morning... I know that's very hypothetical, but come on... we all see what gets posted here on the daily. That's only a fraction of what gets shot.
> 
> Thoughts? Opinions? Let's hear it. "
> 
> ...


Hear we go... I knew this was coming. 

I'm not complaining, I just don't see the point of the extremely liberal limits. I see deer every sit just about. Maybe 3 or 4 times this season I have gone without seeing deer.

This was more addressed to the high doe to buck ratio...

And no, I do not support any form of gun control, no need to bitch or attempt to confuse me with a liberal.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

submariner said:


> " Now, I'm really not one to preach for more regulations... but from daylight until 10am yesterday I heard 12 shots around the area I was hunting, most were within 700 yards, and all were within a mile. Let's say 2 of those shots were just people shooting, so now we are down to 10 shots. Let's say 2 more were not shots at a buck, maybe a coyote or a doe? Now we have 8 shots... let's say half of those guys miss. That's still 4 bucks being shot in one morning... I know that's very hypothetical, but come on... we all see what gets posted here on the daily. That's only a fraction of what gets shot.
> 
> Thoughts? Opinions? Let's hear it. "
> 
> ...


Apparently you miss read what John put out. To have a decent deer herd yes you have to have more regulation or balance out the regulation. All John put forward was a way to be able to harvest does and buck without to many bucks being shot. It is a good plan if you look at other states that have already done stuff like this have an amazing deer herd. 
Your gun regulation is comparing apples to oranges something that is a right to something that isn't. Just shooting one sex of deer all year is completely dumb and hurts the deer herd as a whole.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Exactly what is "pouching"?


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## skullmount1988 (Dec 13, 2010)

grouper22 said:


> Exactly what is "pouching"?


Think it's something to do with kangaroos


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

ok I stand corrected. I support more regulation and a max of 2 deer per season. Doe or buck. As far as a measurement on horns, not sure how to do that. If it is 9.5 inches do I leave on the ground or turn myself in. 

Word was meant to be Poachers. 

The reference to gun control was simply, are you now practicing what you want others to do or are you trying to get new regulations for what you believe is right. Keep in mind that gun control advocates believe what they are saying and just want new regulations to make you comply.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

submariner said:


> ok I stand corrected. I support more regulation and a max of 2 deer per season. Doe or buck. As far as a measurement on horns, not sure how to do that. If it is 9.5 inches do I leave on the ground or turn myself in.
> 
> Word was meant to be Poachers.
> 
> The reference to gun control was simply, are you now practicing what you want others to do or are you trying to get new regulations for what you believe is right. Keep in mind that gun control advocates believe what they are saying and just want new regulations to make you comply.


Again you are comparing apples to oranges. The fact the increase gun controls does nothing and the fact that balancing the regs between sexes of a species or stricter regulation regarding hunting on animals has been proven. Look into Missouri, Kentucky (rated #1 in the US for whitetail hunting), even Texas does no more than 5 whitetail deer per license and can't be more than 3 bucks. Yes I practice what I preach but I am assuming most people on here do since those are the regs and generally I don't shoot more than five deer a year anyways.


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

submariner said:


> ok I stand corrected. I support more regulation and a max of 2 deer per season. Doe or buck. As far as a measurement on horns, not sure how to do that. If it is 9.5 inches do I leave on the ground or turn myself in.
> 
> Word was meant to be Poachers.
> 
> The reference to gun control was simply, are you now practicing what you want others to do or are you trying to get new regulations for what you believe is right. Keep in mind that gun control advocates believe what they are saying and just want new regulations to make you comply.


2 deer per season? I do believe I would find another hobby if that was the case! There would be so many deer around it would downright be dangerous to drive at night . 

Not very hard guessing deer horn measurement, if in doubt, DONT SHOOT! A 13" main beam is pretty small, as well as a 10" spread.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I eat a bunch of deer meat. With the exception of steaks every 3-4 weeks, I do not buy meat from the grocery store. I shot 7 deer last year, keeping 6 for myself, and only shooting the 7th because a good friend wanted one. 

I have shot 2 this year. I will not make it to the end of April on the amount of deer meat I have. 

But that is not the point. The point is, is to have a better deer herd. Apparently, someone a lot smarter than me when it comes herd management decided it is a good idea to have a 1:1 doe/buck ratio.

When this conversation is brought up, the immediate, knee-jerk reaction is "let us shoot more does"...

My question, why? Shooting more does is not the answer, shooting less bucks is...


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

and why is my solution not more reasonable than his. keep in mind he states he see deer almost all the time, but complains about the number of shots he hears. Also says he is just as happy seeing deer as shooting them. why is he concerned what other hunters are doing? he also asked for opinions, he has to expect not all will agree with his or yours. Basically I am against more regulations and bigger government organizations. keep in mind if you set up check stations, you are voting for bigger government and more regulations. but then again, I am old and tired of paying for bigger government and additional regulations.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

submariner said:


> and why is my solution not more reasonable than his. keep in mind he states he see deer almost all the time, but complains about the number of shots he hears. Also says he is just as happy seeing deer as shooting them. why is he concerned what other hunters are doing? he also asked for opinions, he has to expect not all will agree with his or yours. Basically I am against more regulations and bigger government organizations. keep in mind if you set up check stations, you are voting for bigger government and more regulations. but then again, I am old and tired of paying for bigger government and additional regulations.


I'm about as libertarian as you can get, but wanting better management of a public resource doesn't make me a proponent for more "big government"...


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## delta dooler (Mar 6, 2008)

John B. said:


> I eat a bunch of deer meat. With the exception of steaks every 3-4 weeks, I do not buy meat from the grocery store. I shot 7 deer last year, keeping 6 for myself, and only shooting the 7th because a good friend wanted one.
> 
> I have shot 2 this year. I will not make it to the end of April on the amount of deer meat I have.
> 
> ...


my family eats a pile of it too, got 12 in the freezers and have room for a couple more !! 

And I agree, the answer is to not shoot more does, need to shoot less bucks ,(and the bucks that get shot need not be yearling bucks)


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## curdogman (Oct 12, 2007)

I would like to see a tag system also


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

submariner said:


> and why is my solution not more reasonable than his. keep in mind he states he see deer almost all the time, but complains about the number of shots he hears. Also says he is just as happy seeing deer as shooting them. why is he concerned what other hunters are doing? he also asked for opinions, he has to expect not all will agree with his or yours. Basically I am against more regulations and bigger government organizations. keep in mind if you set up check stations, you are voting for bigger government and more regulations. but then again, I am old and tired of paying for bigger government and additional regulations.


The regulation of wildlife is left up to the state not by the federal government. If you do a little research on conservation of wildlife in the US when there was no regulations of wildlife a lot of the big game species were almost wiped out. Now that there are regs, there are better ways at managing wildlife, and plenty of states have proved it. Having stricter regulations on hunting such as only allowing 3-5 bucks on a gun license and 2-3 does a gun licenses still helps in the process making the herd better. There is a difference between Constitutional rights and trying to keep an manageable species population.

Here are some numbers for you when hunting was very lenient/no regs to now.
http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/HuntingIsConservation/25ReasonsWhyHuntingIsConservation.aspx


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

Read this article on doe to buck ratios:
https://www.qdma.com/articles/the-reality-of-doebuck-ratios

I like tagging deer but I think your thought process of killing doe will be counter effective to a better herd. killing bucks is a one deer deal, killing doe is a multi deer kill. If you give every swinging Johnson a two doe tag deal, it won't take long until you have put a huge hurting on the herd.


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## IM4MOPAR (Mar 10, 2011)

grouper22 said:


> Exactly what is "pouching"?


it's when you tuck away your 25-06 ammo for later:whistling:


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

hsiF deR said:


> Read this article on doe to buck ratios:
> https://www.qdma.com/articles/the-reality-of-doebuck-ratios
> 
> I like tagging deer but I think your thought process of killing doe will be counter effective to a better herd. killing bucks is a one deer deal, killing doe is a multi deer kill. If you give every swinging Johnson a two doe tag deal, it won't take long until you have put a huge hurting on the herd.


Agreed... one doe would be fine with me. Maybe make it 5 bucks and one doe a year to include archery sesson.

Fact of the matter is, hunting is gaining in popularity by the second, and the amount of public and private land isn't getting any bigger, and is in all likelihood actually getting smaller. You can't increase the number of hunters with the same regulations and expect for the herd to keep up in production.


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## bobinbusan (Feb 16, 2010)

Where in the HECK ARE ALL THESE DEER'S, haven't seen that many in Escambia & Santa Rosa County, but my eyes aren't as good as they use to be 

Sure hope they don't do what they are doing in Alabama, making hunting a PIA over there


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

So.......are u an apple....... Or a orange?? No more over regulation ! Period!!


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

John B. said:


> I'm about as libertarian as you can get, but wanting better management of a public resource doesn't make me a proponent for more "big government"...


making a tag system or establishing check stations does. simply; both require more resources and more government employees. not clear what a better public resource management would result in bigger or more deer ? Not really clear on what is wrong with the current system? 
Are you not seeing enough deer, not seeing big enough deer ? Keep in mind that Florida has these controls (check stations and limits on deer taken) already in place in some hunting units. Has it improved those units?


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

John B. said:


> Agreed... one doe would be fine with me. Maybe make it 5 bucks and one doe a year to include archery sesson.
> 
> Fact of the matter is, hunting is gaining in popularity by the second, and the amount of public and private land isn't getting any bigger, and is in all likelihood actually getting smaller. You can't increase the number of hunters with the same regulations and expect for the herd to keep up in production.


I totally agree. I would like to see FL be ahead of this huge influx of new hunters and manage its herd for the better.

I just read an article about the changing cultural dynamic in hunting. In short, it stated that a bunch of left wingers are getting involved in hunting because of the impacts of massive cattle operations have on the environment. It actually went as far to say that was the fastest growing population of new hunters.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

submariner said:


> making a tag system or establishing check stations does. simply; both require more resources and more government employees. not clear what a better public resource management would result in bigger or more deer ? Not really clear on what is wrong with the current system?
> Are you not seeing enough deer, not seeing big enough deer ? Keep in mind that Florida has these controls (check stations and limits on deer taken) already in place in some hunting units. Has it improved those units?


I see plenty of deer, an kill bigger deer in Florida than most people.

I'm 27 years old. I want to one day take my grandkids hunting, and be able to sit for a morning and actually see a few deer.

Why do you have a problem with this?

I'm not thinking about now, I'm thinking about the future of the sport.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

submariner said:


> m
> Are you not seeing enough deer, not seeing big enough deer ? Keep in mind that Florida has these controls (check stations and limits on deer taken) already in place in some hunting units. Has it improved those units?


yes, so much so that I make it a point to hunt those very few WMA's that have check stands cause they are always a better hunt then a romp and stomp.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

hsiF deR said:


> Read this article on doe to buck ratios:
> http://www.qdma.com/articles/the-reality-of-doebuck-ratios
> 
> I like tagging deer but I think your thought process of killing doe will be counter effective to a better herd. killing bucks is a one deer deal, killing doe is a multi deer kill. If you give every swinging Johnson a two doe tag deal, it won't take long until you have put a huge hurting on the herd.


That a good article I read that on a few days ago. I'm not referring to a slaughter of does like Alabama has had. 3 bucks and 2 does is not bad at all then you look at a place like Blackwater where the population of buck to doe is highly miss managed and you have a state that on public land is strictly buck harvest unless it is archery season the the number get obscured more. I'm not saying hey we need shoot all these doe to get it to like a 3 does to 1 buck just being able to thin some of these does out would help to allow for bigger bucks, bigger does (body size). I know there is a lot more that goes on behind the scenes to get to a point like that but other states have shown it works so why stay behind on managing the state herd vs other states jumping leaps and bounds. If other states can do this why can't Florida and Florida sure has a lot of deer.

Here is another good read https://www.qdma.com/corporate/antlerless-deer-management


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

Also a side note since Florida doesn't allow the harvest of does during gun season especially public land (except the small number of tags now and doe days for private) think about how many bucks you shoot every year vs how many does. This year I have shot two bucks so far and zero does, last year I shot 5 bucks and zero does, the year before that I shot 4 bucks and 1 doe. Now just compare BW for example there are 1800 still hunt quota permits and I think 400 dog permits. Now think about the 2,200 quota holders and then the dates where you do not need a quota to hunt an imagine how many bucks come off that land compared to does.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> Also a side note since Florida doesn't allow the harvest of does during gun season especially public land (except the small number of tags now and doe days for private) think about how many bucks you shoot every year vs how many does. This year I have shot two bucks so far and zero does, last year I shot 5 bucks and zero does, the year before that I shot 4 bucks and 1 doe. Now just compare BW for example there are 1800 still hunt quota permits and I think 400 dog permits. Now think about the 2,200 quota holders and then the dates where you do not need a quota to hunt an imagine how many bucks come off that land compared to does.


About 50 to one...


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Start a club.... Make all the rules u want. 


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> There is a field half way on Pleasant Home Church road that has two signs that say "You shoot we prosecute" followed by "8 prosecuted so far" lol


Yea 8 so far.
They are the ones that are not related to the local FWC officer or giving him cash to not get a court date.
Have you ever wondered why FWC does not publish names in the weekly FWC reports? Get arrested for anything by any other agency and your name gets published along with the press release.


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## JohnDeereguy (Jan 17, 2013)

John B if you thought you was going to make some mad with your opinion, I may have a mob after me. But I would like to share my opinion. It wouldn't hurt my feeling to see 3 bucks per season per license and open more doe days. But I think deer managment becomes a juggling act. Everyone that purchase a license and anixiously waits for opening day has different goals. Some want to fill the freezer up and liturally don't care if done with a 140" buck or 85 lbs doe, They just want meat. Then others may have 3 bucks only on a hit list with the attention of only shooting 1 or 2 off that hit list only. Then you have farmers that make there living off of crops and the deer literally jeopardize there way of making there living. With that you have some response folks doing deprivation and then some that are far from responsible. Then you have auto insurance companies breathing down FWC back to keep deer population down for less claims. All my rambling to say, whatever State it is has a heck of a juggling act they have to do. But in perfect world and me just stating my opinion. I would love to see no more than 3 bucks per year and more doe days opened. Happy Hunting and good luck to everyone rest of season


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## submariner (Oct 2, 2007)

JohnDeereguy said:


> John B if you thought you was going to make some mad with your opinion, I may have a mob after me. But I would like to share my opinion. It wouldn't hurt my feeling to see 3 bucks per season per license and open more doe days. But I think deer managment becomes a juggling act. Everyone that purchase a license and anixiously waits for opening day has different goals. Some want to fill the freezer up and liturally don't care if done with a 140" buck or 85 lbs doe, They just want meat. Then others may have 3 bucks only on a hit list with the attention of only shooting 1 or 2 off that hit list only. Then you have farmers that make there living off of crops and the deer literally jeopardize there way of making there living. With that you have some response folks doing deprivation and then some that are far from responsible. Then you have auto insurance companies breathing down FWC back to keep deer population down for less claims. All my rambling to say, whatever State it is has a heck of a juggling act they have to do. But in perfect world and me just stating my opinion. I would love to see no more than 3 bucks per year and more doe days opened. Happy Hunting and good luck to everyone rest of season


In case my position was unclear, I agree Johndeer. I don't object to limiting the number of deer taken, I do have issue with tags and check stations being established. We don't need more government (state or federal) employees !


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

I'd be all for a tagging system. In Arkansas where I'm from, you get 2 bucks per year, period. The amount of does depends on your hunting area. You can kill a max of 6 deer in any one season. Doe season is open any time it's hunting season.

I'd bet 99% of deer hunters don't eat this many deer in any one year, really no reason to kill more than this.

I would like to be able to kill my doe(s) any time during the hunting season, not just 1 or 2 weekends each year.


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## TFRIZZ30 (Jun 26, 2014)

I support tags and check stations. Up north that is the system I came from. It makes enforcing regulations easier and it is fun to hang around the check station to BS and see what other guys have killed especially moose and black bear. When I started hunting down here I read the regs as there was a possession limit of 4 deer per hunter per year. Can someone explain what that 4 deer possession limit actually refers to as I see many guys come close to doubling that limit.


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

John B , Brandon SPC , others..... How long (years) would it take for the deer herd to be impacted by allowing each hunter who obtained a Blackwater WMA Still Hunt Quota permit (1800 participants) Dog Hunt Quota (400 participants); Family Quota Hunt (100 participants) if given *ONE *doe tag annual harvest ,in addition to the deer ( bucks/does) harvested in archery season, deer taken by farmers with depradation permits, illegally shot deer , roadkills,.....it is a numbers game, which Blackwater WMA or any other WMA could not sustain if that were allowed to happen.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

flounder1156 said:


> John B , Brandon SPC , others..... How long (years) would it take for the deer herd to be impacted by allowing each hunter who obtained a Blackwater WMA Still Hunt Quota permit (1800 participants) Dog Hunt Quota (400 participants); Family Quota Hunt (100 participants) if given *ONE *doe tag annual harvest ,in addition to the deer ( bucks/does) harvested in archery season, deer taken by farmers with depradation permits, illegally shot deer , roadkills,.....it is a numbers game, which Blackwater WMA or any other WMA could not sustain if that were allowed to happen.


Well, I believe the family hunt can kill a doe a day during the 3 days (correct me if I'm wrong here) and they already issue 400 doe tags as it is... would there be a lot of does killed? Yeah... personally, I'd rather kill a doe than some 70lb spike buck.


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

Agree John B. A doe over a small buck. I'm not busting your chops on the doe harvest ....you have an excellent question /opinion thrown out to hunter's utilizing Blackwater WMA....I for one who has hunted it since 1968 ,(47 years) do not want to go back to the early years of hunting Blackwater WMA and seeing maybe one deer a week.....I will agree that there are deer on portions of Blackwater WMA that were not found in these areas even up too within the past 10 years..... the herd is expanding . I too like you have up seasons and down seasons in regard to killing deer.


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

You can even get screwy and have doe harvest on odd numbered years on public land

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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

flounder1156 said:


> John B , Brandon SPC , others..... How long (years) would it take for the deer herd to be impacted by allowing each hunter who obtained a Blackwater WMA Still Hunt Quota permit (1800 participants) Dog Hunt Quota (400 participants); Family Quota Hunt (100 participants) if given *ONE *doe tag annual harvest ,in addition to the deer ( bucks/does) harvested in archery season, deer taken by farmers with depradation permits, illegally shot deer , roadkills,.....it is a numbers game, which Blackwater WMA or any other WMA could not sustain if that were allowed to happen.


Yeah it is a numbers game but it is also a balancing game. If you start allowing more harvesting of does then you restrict the number of bucks you are allowed to harvest. I have no problem shooting a doe over a small buck. I would prefer shooting a doe over a small buck any day of the week but when you are forced to only shoot bucks then a lot of the small ones will get taken out. Such as the the two I have shot this year. Both of them were about 2 1/2 years old but my freezer is hurting now. You restrict the buck harvest the buck harvest allow more doe to be harvested it will balance out (generally speaking). 

Go compare the Hutton units harvest reports and compare that to the quality of hunting in there. Now remember there are two rifle hunts in there where you can harvest does. From 2012 hunting season to the end of 2015 season out of those 3 season there was close to almost an even ratio harvested. Take out the fact that there are only a few hunts and compare how many bucks you see per does. When I hunted archery season last year I saw a about the same amount of bucks per does. I also hunted the gun season last year and was able to witness a strong rut in the Hutton and I can honestly say I saw about the same amount of bucks as I saw does. Not shooters that you would spend a 5 day hunt on but I saw plenty of bucks and I can see that the rut was stronger in the area do to the buck to doe ratio is probably pretty close. After seeing the same amount of deer of either sex in both hunts and if you compare the harvest reports (not the most accurate but the only data we have to go off of). And the deer numbers are still strong and honestly there are probably too many deer per square mile in there which explains the small body size of the deer in the Hutton unit. The more deer per square mile the smaller the body size . Example the 8pt I shot last year that was every bit of 3 ½ years old but only weighed 100 lbs even. The 8pt my dad shot in archery season was probably 2 ½ and that buck weigh about the same. I am sure there are some bruisers walking through there but the majority of the deer body size are small.

I’m not condoning giving something like 5 does tags and still shoot as many bucks as possible if you mange one you have to manage the other if not that is where the deer herd takes a big impact on numbers. There can still be a big deer herd while you still have the ability to shoot does and bucks.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

The hutton unit isn't a fair comparison though. From my limited experience, those deer act completely different than any other deer in Florida. Most of them haven't ever seen a human.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

John B. said:


> The hutton unit isn't a fair comparison though. From my limited experience, those deer act completely different than any other deer in Florida. Most of them haven't ever seen a human.


When Florida only provides you with these numbers it is the only numbers I can go off of. I am comparing numbers of deer seen per sex. Plus during the summer there is plenty of foot traffic that goes in there. You have the hog hunts during the summer and people that go in there recreational. I have driven out there on numerous days in the summer scouting and ran into other vehicles. The average deer roaming area for a doe is about 1 square mile and a buck about 2.5 square miles combine the rut and bucks will roam farther. It isn't a high fence place so I am sure plenty of deer wonder off that property and to the surrounding private property and public land.


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## hyco (Oct 24, 2008)

Espo and I was at a deer management meeting with the state and they said there was no way they would ok 2200 does killed on blackwater gun season. Plus what already gets killed during archery.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

hyco said:


> Espo and I was at a deer management meeting with the state and they said there was no way they would ok 2200 does killed on blackwater gun season. Plus what already gets killed during archery.


Did they say why? I'm just curious. Is there not that many deer there or do they just not have enough data to justify the tags like they do with all the leases and clubs.


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

Just a thought here....the new antler restriction regs have only been in place for two years....IMO give it a couple more and see where we're at then....All them does are bearing fawns each year to keep up with the slaughter that is going on...The new regs are designed to protect the bucks for at least a of couple years....That's how the state is thinking on having MORE bucks.....
Kentucky IS a great TROPHY state....Why, they ONLY allow one buck per year per license,doe tags can be bought and rebought for meat hunters....
Tennessee just changed there buck limit from 3 to 2 if im not mistaken.....The tendeer forum with 5000 members is going through a civil war over it....
How did 2 bucks PER DAY even come about anyway. ?..its pretty ridiculous even though I haven't heard of anyone killing that many everyday of the season....I agree changes need to be made ....5 bucks a season should be plenty for anybody....
Since Alabama changed its limit to three ....has it really help out their herd....?


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

fairpoint said:


> Just a thought here....the new antler restriction regs have only been in place for two years....IMO give it a couple more and see where we're at then....All them does are bearing fawns each year to keep up with the slaughter that is going on...The new regs are designed to protect the bucks for at least a of couple years....That's how the state is thinking on having MORE bucks.....
> Kentucky IS a great TROPHY state....Why, they ONLY allow one buck per year per license,doe tags can be bought and rebought for meat hunters....
> Tennessee just changed there buck limit from 3 to 2 if im not mistaken.....The tendeer forum with 5000 members is going through a civil war over it....
> How did 2 bucks PER DAY even come about anyway. ?..its pretty ridiculous even though I haven't heard of anyone killing that many everyday of the season....I agree changes need to be made ....5 bucks a season should be plenty for anybody....
> Since Alabama changed its limit to three ....has it really help out their herd....?


No, because they allow doe slaughter every day.


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

And up there not everybody follows the 3 buck rule. Just throw your harvest record away and print a new one. They don't have the law enforcement that we have to even try to check people. That is where a tag beats a sheet of paper once it is locked on an antler or leg you can't reuse it. Big fines if you get caught not tagging an animal. I spoke with someone this weekend that said in Kansas if you get caught not tagging your animal there is no more hunting for you. Plus a fine. That means no license ever again. 

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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Y'all want some cheese with that whine! Y'all keep talkin bout this and that is how they do it in other states.... who cares.Most have a week or two to hunt with a gun. Why don't u hunt there, gez.some body post up the Butt hurt report! Didn't u two just hunt in the petting zoo (Hutton). Dang!!


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

706Z said:


> Y'all want some cheese with that whine! Y'all keep talkin bout this and that is how they do it in other states.... who cares.Most have a week or two to hunt with a gun. Why don't u hunt there, gez.some body post up the Butt hurt report! Didn't u two just hunt in the petting zoo (Hutton). Dang!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seems you're the only one who is butthurt, Mike.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

U know there not gonna let everybody shoot does. They have already went to 3on one side( point regs) now yup want to limit the Bucks u can take. Really!!! U are trying to fix some ting that's not broken IMO. 


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

If you have never hunted in there you have no idea. You think you gonna see deer everywhere. Non to be found Saturday or yesterday. When the do the deer count the come close to a 5:1 ratio in there. Rest of blackwater is close to 25:1 

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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

I always get mine. Check the last 5 or 6 years. 8 points every year. I'd say I got a pretty good idea. 


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## bowfisher91 (Feb 19, 2008)

^billy bada$$ alert


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

John B. said:


> I'm probably not going to have many fans for this, but I think something needs to be done.
> 
> The fact that legally, you can shoot 2 bucks a day, every day, for almost 130 days in Florida is insane to me.
> 
> ...


Let me jump on your soap box and say I agree.

Also let me add, if you are a grown man/woman, hunter for meat or have killed bucks before, shoot the doe standing there vs shooting the basket rack. Or, if doe season is not in, just enjoy the view and let that small buck grow up. I know it is hard to do on public land.

You are not impressing anyone with that small buck on your truck.

Just saying it like I see it.

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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

But.... But......We only hunt public land. I don't sit on a plot or corn feeder with pics of every deer that shows up or have time to count every point on a Nuuk running a doe by me. I hunt in the woods, something a lot of people know nothing about. I never sit the same place twice and on public land u never know if it was just hunted by some one else or if u might get walked in on. Yeah, it's tough huntin but I follow the rules and take what I can. Some have no idea!


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

706Z said:


> But.... But......We only hunt public land. I don't sit on a plot or corn feeder with pics of every deer that shows up or have time to count every point on a Nuuk running a doe by me. I hunt in the woods, something a lot of people know nothing about. I never sit the same place twice and on public land u never know if it was just hunted by some one else or if u might get walked in on. Yeah, it's tough huntin but I follow the rules and take what I can. Some have no idea!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea, that is a problem, if you let it walk the guy 200 yards away shoots the one you let walk.

By the way, the one I killed this weekend was in the woods s long ways from any green field or feeder. 

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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

Outside9 said:


> Let me jump on your soap box and say I agree.
> 
> Also let me add, if you are a grown man/woman, hunter for meat or have killed bucks before, shoot the doe standing there vs shooting the basket rack. Or, if doe season is not in, just enjoy the view and let that small buck grow up. I know it is hard to do on public land.
> 
> ...



Best post on the entire thread!


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## ironman (Oct 18, 2007)

Alabama went to a 3 buck per season rule a few years ago. Has it helped? I'm not quite sure yet. I do know that I have shot some nicer bucks since then but I think it also has a lot to do with extending the season to Feb. 10th. What I don't see is any impact from our liberal doe season. As a matter of fact I see way more deer now than I did 20 years ago. Granted the hunting club that borders our place has doe tags issued to them every year so they are limited to the amount of does harvested. We have several does on camera with twin fawns this year. That is a sign of a healthy herd. I don't see any issue in taking does as long as it's managed properly. For you guys that hunt Blackwater do they not issue any doe tags? I ask because in some of the WMA's here they will radomly issue tags at the check stations.


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

I will also add this. "Doe days" is the dumbest damn thing I can think of. What the hell does it matter when you shoot your does? Put a limit on the number and leave it alone.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

CHUMM BUCKET said:


> I will also add this. "Doe days" is the dumbest damn thing I can think of. What the hell does it matter when you shoot your does? Put a limit on the number and leave it alone.


I disagree. Doe days would be better than a free for all doe killing with everybody having a tag. 

All of the WMA's are surveyed by a night count. The WMA's that can handle doe tags, get doe tags. I like the idea behind protecting the younger bucks and letting them get larger(bodies). Like John said, there is a heck of a lot more meat on a 130 lb deer than a 65 lb spike.


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## watertruck#12 (Oct 20, 2013)

Glad to see we have enough deer in Blackwater these days to have a thread like this, back in the early 80's i remember running dogs with my dad and not even having a race all day and sometimes all weekend, FWC did something right in the last few decades


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## CHUMM BUCKET (Jul 2, 2008)

hsiF deR said:


> I disagree. Doe days would be better than a free for all doe killing with everybody having a tag.
> 
> All of the WMA's are surveyed by a night count. The WMA's that can handle doe tags, get doe tags. I like the idea behind protecting the younger bucks and letting them get larger(bodies). Like John said, there is a heck of a lot more meat on a 130 lb deer than a 65 lb spike.


 no offense but, tell me the difference in a dead doe on october 31st, November 10th or January 31st. 

I`ll save you the trouble. there is no difference, they`re dead. not everyone has the luxury to hunt anytime they want. a florida residence should have an equal right to harvest a doe as everyone else. if you are limited to x number of does a year, why does it matter if you kill your limit in 1 week or spread out over an entire season? 

for the record, I have never hunted the state of florida and do not intend to. therefore I don`t know all of the rules and regulations. I have been a Floridian for 33 out of 37 years of my life. I just prefer Alabama and Mississippi.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

watertruck#12 said:


> Glad to see we have enough deer in Blackwater these days to have a thread like this, back in the early 80's i remember running dogs with my dad and not even having a race all day and sometimes all weekend, FWC did something right in the last few decades



Some places are better, some not , carpenters road use to be on fire early 80s..... That was dog hunt back then, still hunt now, not a quarter of the deer that were there. 


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## Buckchaser (Jan 28, 2014)

It's a simple concept, if you want to see more and bigger bucks then you have to limit the number and size of bucks killed. If you don't care about that then the rules are fine now. I don't care to shoot small bucks which is why I don't hunt bw very much. I hunt bama and have seen about 20 bucks that would meet floridas antler restrictions and a few 13 or 14 in wide 8's this year and I've only shot one. If bamas rules were the same as floridas and I and a few other members killed every buck we had a chance at because we were "meat hunters" then that piece of property wouldn't be worth hunting in a few years. I like deer meat as much as anybody but I shoot does in archery for meat.


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## Buckchaser (Jan 28, 2014)

Buckchaser said:


> It's a simple concept, if you want to see more and bigger bucks then you have to limit the number and size of bucks killed. If you don't care about that then the rules are fine now. I don't care to shoot small bucks which is why I don't hunt bw very much. I hunt bama and have seen about 20 bucks that would meet floridas antler restrictions and a few 13 or 14 in wide 8's this year and I've only shot one. If bamas rules were the same as floridas and I and a few other members killed every buck we had a chance at because we were "meat hunters" then that piece of property wouldn't be worth hunting in a few years. I like deer meat as much as anybody but I shoot does in archery for meat.


And before it gets said I haven't hunted a plot or feeder once this year


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

John B. said:


> Yeah I hate the excuse of "we hunt to feed ourselves" hunting is a hell of a lot more expensive than buying hamburger from the store, no matter how you try to justify it.


cant speak for anybody else but there are times when the deer cost is only the bullet and the ice.....


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

no woryz said:


> cant speak for anybody else but there are times when the deer cost is only the bullet and the ice.....


I'm at that point too... but I know I can buy a lot of hamburger for just what u pay for my hunting license.


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## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

watertruck#12 said:


> Glad to see we have enough deer in Blackwater these days to have a thread like this, back in the early 80's i remember running dogs with my dad and not even having a race all day and sometimes all weekend, FWC did something right in the last few decades


Speaking only of Blackwater.....just an observation, not an opinion. I grew up in north Santa Rosa county and roamed from Escambia River to Blackwater an awful lot. Started at the gas plant on 191 in 1984. I promise, the deer had loads of pressure on them back then. Lots of dog hunters.....ALOT. Not many still hunters at all. Deer were not near as plentiful in the late 70's. Virtually non existent. In the early 90's the night hunters were awful...much worse than now. I can remember being on midnights at the plant and looking south looked like Hollywood from all the Q-beams. Heard plenty of shots too. Nowadays, I hardly go up there without seeing a deer or 40 standing in the ditches. Small little fellers for the most part, but, lot's of em'. Seen plenty of good bucks at night too. Mainly south of 4 or near Bear lake. The numbers do sincerely seem to be up though. See a good many at daylight hanging in the nursery area. Always seem to be some there. I know of several local night hunters that have been caught over the years. Alot more land was public back then too. Hunters were much less congested and more spread out. Just food for thought....


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## auburn17 (Oct 29, 2008)

no woryz said:


> cant speak for anybody else but there are times when the deer cost is only the bullet and the ice.....


- Gas to get to BW is going to cost more than to go to the grocery
- You had to buy a gun to shoot the bullet out of
- You probably bought a tree stand to hunt out of
- License, management area stamps etc

I agree with John's point anyone who says the hunt because they "have to have meat" is full of crap. There are many cheaper options than hunting to get meat, even if you are hunting management land. 

I would love to see the state go to a 3 buck limit and 3 does per hunter, per year. That will keep the ratio in check for the QDMA guys and still allow all of the "starving" people to get plenty of meat. 

I also think the current horn restrictions are a crock of crap. If you are going to say 3 on 1 side then leave it at that, there is no need to throw in the 10" main beam.

The hunting may not be as good for some guys the first 2 years they enforced something like this, but if you cant kill something bigger than a 10" cow horn you're not a very good hunter IMO

you probably wouldn't even need a horn restriction if you had a 3 buck limit since people would think a little harder before pulling the trigger on a cow horn knowing they only have 3 for the year.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

CHUMM BUCKET said:


> no offense but, tell me the difference in a dead doe on october 31st, November 10th or January 31st.
> 
> I`ll save you the trouble. there is no difference, they`re dead. not everyone has the luxury to hunt anytime they want. a florida residence should have an equal right to harvest a doe as everyone else. if you are limited to x number of does a year, why does it matter if you kill your limit in 1 week or spread out over an entire season?
> 
> for the record, I have never hunted the state of florida and do not intend to. therefore I don`t know all of the rules and regulations. I have been a Floridian for 33 out of 37 years of my life. I just prefer Alabama and Mississippi.


I think you misunderstood my point. 

I get what you are saying dead is dead. My point is doe days will keep the harvest down where as EVERYBODY gets a tag, means does could be killed all season. I am not talking about on private land. Private land, I agree with you. Public land is a different story.

Similar to the way the FL bear hunt was done.


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

auburn17 said:


> - Gas to get to BW is going to cost more than to go to the grocery
> - You had to buy a gun to shoot the bullet out of
> - You probably bought a tree stand to hunt out of
> - License, management area stamps etc
> ...



I wouldn't paint with such a broad brush.... those examples dont fit me and i'm sure others as well... i couldnt buy meat for cheaper than i kill it....


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

I agree with you John. But I would also include archery season. We also don't want to get carried away shooting does. I agree it would help to take a few more than are being taken for sure.


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## auburn17 (Oct 29, 2008)

no woryz said:


> I wouldn't paint with such a broad brush.... those examples dont fit me and i'm sure others as well... i couldnt buy meat for cheaper than i kill it....


So is 6 deer a year not enough for you, or do you not think that you can kill 3 bucks with 3 on one side?


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## no woryz (Oct 2, 2007)

auburn17 said:


> So is 6 deer a year not enough for you, or do you not think that you can kill 3 bucks with 3 on one side?


i think your confusing me with someone else..... ive made no comment on quality or quanity.... nor do i plan to....my opinion on that is irrelevent... I'm merely disputing the absurdity of knocking someone who says hunting is not a way to feed a family & brings up a hamburger reference to try to prove their point.... If the FWC asks my opinion I tell them....


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

no woryz said:


> i think your confusing me with someone else..... ive made no comment on quality or quanity.... nor do i plan to....my opinion on that is irrelevent... I'm merely disputing the absurdity of knocking someone who says hunting is not a way to feed a family & brings up a hamburger reference to try to prove their point.... If the FWC asks my opinion I tell them....


Unless you inherited everything required to legally kill, process, and store a deer... not to mention the time required to do all of that, you simply can not eat deer for cheaper than you can buy burger.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

My uncle can. Retired. Lives on his land. Doesn't have to buy a license anymore. Has enough ammo, that he'll never have to buy any again. And it probably costs him $20 worth of fuel to drive in town and pick up hamburger. Processing deer just takes time and seasonings.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

In other news, John got a new pool.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

MrFish said:


> My uncle can. Retired. Lives on his land. Doesn't have to buy a license anymore. Has enough ammo, that he'll never have to buy any again. And it probably costs him $20 worth of fuel to drive in town and pick up hamburger. Processing deer just takes time and seasonings.


All I'm saying is, if you factor in the costs of a rifle, bow or whatever weapon, license, stand, land, gas processing fees or equipment, plus additional refrigeration to keep that quantity of meat, you WILL NOT come out ahead.

Just like it's cheaper to go to Joe Patti and buy your fish rather than catch it.

But I digress... we all do it for the love of the sport, if we didn't, we'd be taking our ass to the Winn Dixie and buying some 85/15...


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

John B. said:


> All I'm saying is, if you factor in the costs of a rifle, bow or whatever weapon, license, stand, land, gas processing fees or equipment, plus additional refrigeration to keep that quantity of meat, you WILL NOT come out ahead.
> 
> Just like it's cheaper to go to Joe Patti and buy your fish rather than catch it.
> 
> But I digress... we all do it for the love of the sport, if we didn't, we'd be taking our ass to the Winn Dixie and buying some 85/15...


I bet he does. Land was inherited. Processing equipment was my great granddads. I bought him an electric grinder a few years back. Gas costs more for the beef. Weapons aren't a big cost. Single shot H&R. Same amount of freezers he would have if he was buying beef from WD. 

And if we're factoring in all the stuff over the years, then ground beef gets the cost of a car, since he can't get there without one.

I know he's not the norm, but there are some people that think it can't be done, when it actually can.


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

There's one thing for sure here and will always be..."You can't please everybody"


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

fairpoint said:


> There's one thing for sure here and will always be..."You can't please everybody"


As is life...


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

On Hanks message board they are talking about when hunting out of an elevated stand including in a tree was only legal for deer hunting with a bow until 1997 in Michigan.....A guy got a ticket for climbing up a blowdown to get a better view.....
What about that rule....there would be plenty of window shopping deer then,lol....
Might as well go bowhunting only....if the guncontrollers get there say......


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## HO5TILE1 (Oct 25, 2013)

I think selling doe tags or x number of doe tags based on a good count could be one way to go?? seems only the people who really luv to hunt will pony up the cash.. and for the folks who cannot afford to pay maybe take a percentage of the doe tags and have a lottery just a thought...I have not killed a good buck on public land yet but have seen tons of doe on public. now im only on my 3rd year of public land hunting because i just dont like paying 1500 and up for all the unwritten rules that clubs have, at least in my exp. in the clubs i hunted...but I also like john b's idea as well


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## HO5TILE1 (Oct 25, 2013)

also when I hunt blackwater I hear 15 or 20 shots am and pm every time not far away and there is no way they are all shooting bucks or there wouldnt be a buck left in florida. so someone is killing the shit out of doe already. so I dont know what the answer is. but I sure wish i could kill 2 or 3 doe a year cause I dont care about bone on head cant eat it anyway.


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

I'd buy some does tags, maybe, sure wish I had some now!


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## HO5TILE1 (Oct 25, 2013)

me and you both sicf


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## damnifino3 (Sep 23, 2012)

I've always wondered how they keep track off how many animals are harvested each year without a tag/check system. 2 bucks a day everyday always seemed high to me. I really liked the antler change from 5 " to 3 on one side. Obviously its a little harder to double up on bucks with that rule so we are going to have more bucks in years to come. I hunt private and public. The small piece of private I hunt is only 60 acres and I have on camera 4 bucks and at least 15 doe. I've been able to get two doe on the doe days given by the state. Can't always make it out on the weekends slotted for it. I would completely be on board with a tag system. 5-6 deer a year is plenty of meat for my family. Hell we've managed not to starve with only two going in the freezer. Even if you have to purchase extra doe tags I think its worth it. You're never going to stop poachers or if its Brown its down. There will never be an accurate count on whats killed on WMAS. Its the same way fishing you're always gonna have people harvest more than whats legal. Not sure if anything really works but if FWC has more resources to to go after the ones that don't play by the rules I'm all for that too. The way I look at it is if you don't have anything to hide,a stop and check by FWC or even sheriff's dept is usually quick and painless. They are protecting the renewable resources that hopefully my son and his kids will be able to enjoy in the future. Just my opinion as well.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Ok this is where it gets real, how many of u have killed 2 bucks in one day?Im talking about Black water,hell any wma in Florida. Just because u hear shots around u does not mean they are killing. U would be amazed at the amount of missed shots. I personally counted 34+ shots at one deer in the dog hunt that is still running. I'm sure there is not many that kill 2 a day,so, what's this thread REALLY about ?


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

Actually I have killed 2 in a day many times when it was the old 5" rule. Bow season especially 

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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Leave it the heck alone!


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## kdawg.84 (Oct 8, 2007)

Having a horn rule will slow buck harvest more than anything. Not many people are killing more than one good buck a day. It happens but it's not a regular thing for anybody.It would be nice if they gave out more doe tags. I don't think every license should get one but we do need to shoot more doe out of Blackwater.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

auburn17 said:


> - Gas to get to BW is going to cost more than to go to the grocery
> - You had to buy a gun to shoot the bullet out of
> - You probably bought a tree stand to hunt out of
> - License, management area stamps etc
> ...


The only reason why the 10" main beam wiras created was for the dog hunters. There was a video I posted a while back of the FWC explaining it. I always thought the 10" main beam was dumb until they explained that you wouldnt properly be able to ID a buck when it is running. So the 10" main beam came into play.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

706Z said:


> Y'all want some cheese with that whine! Y'all keep talkin bout this and that is how they do it in other states.... who cares.Most have a week or two to hunt with a gun. Why don't u hunt there, gez.some body post up the Butt hurt report! Didn't u two just hunt in the petting zoo (Hutton). Dang!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It cracks me up reading your posts about disliking the regs but i remember you talking last year about how you like hunting in the Hutton Unit which is the most regulated place in BW.


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## auburn17 (Oct 29, 2008)

Brandon_SPC said:


> The only reason why the 10" main beam wiras created was for the dog hunters. There was a video I posted a while back of the FWC explaining it. I always thought the 10" main beam was dumb until they explained that you wouldnt properly be able to ID a buck when it is running. So the 10" main beam came into play.


There is a club in Atmore that runs dogs every Saturday, and their buck rule is 8pt or better outside the ears. When asked how they are supposed to know how big he is running from dogs, the owner said "If you have doubts, he isn't big enough". They kill some VERY good bucks on dog drives. 

I understand it is to make it easier for dog hunters, but they could have just as easily said "must have forks on both side".

Someone else already mentioned in this thread, but if you are in it for the meat why would you want to shoot a 100-110lbs cow horn / 4 pt instead of wanting to shoot a 150-170lbs "mature deer"?

I think if the state would make the rules and people are willing to follow them, every one would be happier in the long run. 

-Shooting bigger bodied deer
-Bigger horns
-More bucks seen (over time)
-Don't have to shoot every "legal" buck you see worried about someone shooting it on the next hill

When you only have 3 bucks a year to kill it makes you think a little bit about what you shoot, and helps most people keep their booger hooker off the bang switch.

For the people who aren't "horn hunters", then only hunt bow season and stack the does like cordwood to fill your freezer.


For what it's worth, I don't hunt BW or any other management area for deer. I hunt in FL, in a club, and we already have a 3 buck limit. I like shooting bucks as much as the next guy, but I have enough horns sitting in a box so I would rather be able to stay here at home and have a chance at killing good deer. Having 12 sets of 1 1/2 year old deer horns in the bed of your truck doesn't make you a good hunter, it just makes you trigger happy


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## jvalhenson (May 14, 2008)

I cannot speak for Florida but I can tell you what has been done in MS. Obviously this is not apples to apples as most of MS is very different than florida but I live on the coast and down these lower 6 counties are pretty similar to what yall have from what I can tell.....as in poor sandy soil with lots of thick pine and gallberry woods. Years back there were no deer much to be found and you might drive around all day just hoping to cut a track to put dogs on. Then even if you did find one you might trail him all day but dogs never jump. The state did a massive reintroduction and of course now there are deer all over the place. Once the deer started coming back MS had a 5 buck and 3 does. Does could only be killed during bow, primitive weapon, and a few gun doe days. Any buck with any horn showing above the hair was legal. It was this was for decades. Then about maybe 20ish years ago the state dropped the bucks limit to 3 and increased the doe limit to 5 and also allowed 2 additinoal does that had to be archery kills. Along with this we went to a 4 point rule and some WMAs added to that of the 4 at least 3 had to be on one side. This was a DISASTER. It led to massive high grading and the size of the states average bucks killed dropped dramatically bc those younger deer with better horns were being killed while the same age bucks with poor horns were allowed to live on and breed. Luckily this was recognized early and the state came off the point requirments and went with spread and main beam. Not in the hill and south zones bucks have to be either 10" wide or have at least 1 main beam of 13" and in the delta zone its 12" wide or a 15" beam. A few WMAs are a little stricter with a 15" spread or 18" beam. This has been a much better format than the points thing. Limits now are 3 bucks and 5 does in the hill and delta zone and 3 bucks 3 does in the south zone. Of course like everything not everyone is happy with our regs. Some want no regs at all and others want a 1 week gun season with a 1 bucks limit and he has to be 22 inches wide or a 26" beam to be legal. Personally I love our seasons the way they are right now. We get roughly 3 months of gun season plus a month and a half of bow, can kill plenty deer(not that anyone counts them anyways), and can shoot small enough deer that you dont have to be anywhere near a trophy hunter yet the ARs are still dtrict enough that if a guy does want to hold out for(public land) or manage for(private land) big bucks there is ample opportunity for that too. I said all that to say.....whatever it is yall are wanting to change keep in mind there can be many unintended consequences for a change just like how the 4 point rule here had devastating results. Oh and youths can kill any buck over here regardless of spread or anything.


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## espo16 (Apr 21, 2008)

Bye Felicia...


Sent from the tree stand....


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## Wyknot (May 26, 2015)

I guess I never thought about deer hunting when I think of Florida. I have seen a few when visiting. I'm sure there isn't a solution that will suit everyone. I can imagine there are generations of hardcore deer hunters that simply will not want changes made. I get that. Just what is it a Florida deer hunter wants?

From an outsider it's hard to gain everyone's perspective. I won't get into arguing over the unknowns. That seems to be the real culprit here. A lot of unknowns without a tagging/check-in system. I don't know how to get a usable form of data without logging deer killed by hunters. It can be done without physically checking in deer at a check station. Telechecking is done in several states for big game. A phone or internet connection is used to call in or log in on a web page the kill and to record the data. Buck or doe, county, weapon used, etc.. Turkey/Antelope etc the same way. This won't stop poaching but no law does. You get the data in front of biologists and they can put together a plan that will manage the deer herd. That is taking for granted that you want a managed herd. 

I've seen some behind the scenes glances at the difficulty appeasing deer hunters in a northern state. It sure sounds like what I am reading here, lots of "debate" about what should be done. The state I am referring to went to an antler restriction outlawing the taking of spikes. So far as I know people still shoot very young bucks with a fork horn. And several does. I don't see their deer herd quality improving. Yet the deer hunters keep complaining. 

I grew up in the hills of Virginia. I think our limit was maybe 12 or so deer but then you bought extra tags, been too long ago. We had buck only days and doe only days, and check stations. I was used to processing a lot of meat. Then I moved to Kentucky. I couldn't for the life of me wrap my head around a one buck only limit, as in one buck, period. If you took it with your bow that was your annual buck. Your rifle, that was your buck. It really ticked me off. But, over time I have come to like it. I know I only have one tag for a buck. I let 130" deer walk without even thinking about it this past Fall. I let a 145" deer walk three times in one sit. I'm not bragging and I'm not a horn hunter, but I live in a place where I know a monster will step out if I'm in the right stand with the right wind during rut. Somehow my days of youth with a bow and a homemade tree stand where I could slip arrows through bucks walking the rub line one after another if legal (which it seems it is for y'all) to where I let the first four or five walk the rub line anticipating the monster will show before the sun sets. They will during the rut if there are old ones living. By no means am I judging what one wants as being less or more important than another's wants. I'm just posting an option regarding data collection that doesn't require more personnel and heavier costs to your state wildlife department.

Here's a link that might interest some of you. It tells the story of how an entire state went from almost no deer, to a state where I see plenty of out of state tags come the week of October until the end of November, it's not a top destination spot but it does draw hunters for the rut. (maybe ya'll are sick enough of out of state folks which is understandable)http://fw.ky.gov/More/Pages/Kentucky's-Deer-Restoration.aspx


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## gastonfish (Mar 24, 2012)

Brandon_SPC said:


> The only reason why the 10" main beam wiras created was for the dog hunters. There was a video I posted a while back of the FWC explaining it. I always thought the 10" main beam was dumb until they explained that you wouldnt properly be able to ID a buck when it is running. So the 10" main beam came into play.


That is true but why would they even make the statement that this is the reason. Not bashing the dog hunters but changing the rule to suit a few is crazy. If you cant ID it don't shoot it regardless of how you hunt.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

gastonfish said:


> That is true but why would they even make the statement that this is the reason. Not bashing the dog hunters but changing the rule to suit a few is crazy. If you cant ID it don't shoot it regardless of how you hunt.


I don't know the state comes up with crazy stuff...


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

Even if we all don't agree with the way it is, we should remain silent. Heck, if the state starts tinkering with it, who knows what they may come up with. 

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## captsef (Feb 2, 2016)

I agree that some states need to talk to the hunters more and leave some of the management choices up to the land owner. A tag system is only as good as the people that honor and use it, but most avid sportsman are ethical and will follow the rules. The doe day bs needs to go away. It makes absolutely no sense to have everybody in the woods at once on top of each other and then issue thousands of deprivation tags for people to shoot them at night. My buddy was sitting the other day and had 42 in the field, not a single horn to be found. The doe rules in Fl aren't working and if people had a 3 buck max, maybe some of the spikes and young bucks would walk because people wouldn't want to use a tag on them. You have to thin out the does but you can't shoot everyone that walks. My lease is in Brewton, they have decided to not shoot does, after 3 years I have decided to pull the plug and look for a new lease. You also can't hunt a decent buck when you have herds of does walking all around and busting you left and right. There has to be a balance and allow each land owner to manage with common sense. Nobody knows the land better than the person watching camera's, seeing tracks, sitting in a tree.


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

I think the state has done an increasingly better job when it comes to game management in FL.
For example, I think the buck restrictions were good, I also say the bear hunt was good, daylight alligator hunting, etc.
I think the FWC does a great job considering the task they are given and the limited resources to do it.


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## espo16 (Apr 21, 2008)

Sent from the tree stand....


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

espo16 said:


> Sent from the tree stand....



Bully bad a$$ alert!


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## lettheairout (Mar 11, 2008)

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## IM4MOPAR (Mar 10, 2011)

go ahead Val!!!!


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## espo16 (Apr 21, 2008)

Proverbs 10:19
19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking,
but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.


Sent from the tree stand....


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## HO5TILE1 (Oct 25, 2013)

well maybe im not a good hunter, cause I have seen at least 4 or 5 doe sometimes more in almost every tree I have climbed in B.W. and not a single buck..only bucks i have seen i have jumped going to take a crap or crossing the road in the dark as im leaving the area. have had hunting partners see a buck once or twice 150 yards from me while we are up...then I hear people talking about all these bucks they see not legal but bone on head none the less and im trying to figure out what im doing wrong. I figured where there is doe a buck cant be far away? then I think there are so many doe why would the boys fight over them when there are 40 more ladies down the trail...but i will still be out trying and enjoying the woods I like the idea of a tag system and letting hunters take there doe tags anytime during the season..


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## IM4MOPAR (Mar 10, 2011)

espo16 said:


> Proverbs 10:19
> 19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking,
> but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.
> 
> ...


sure wish I would have read and practiced PROVERBS when I was a young man, coulda saved myself a whole lotta GRIEF, MISERY AND REGRETS. just glad I at least got straight alil' later on!!!!!:thumbup:


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

HO5TILE1 said:


> well maybe im not a good hunter, cause I have seen at least 4 or 5 doe sometimes more in almost every tree I have climbed in B.W. and not a single buck..only bucks i have seen i have jumped going to take a crap or crossing the road in the dark as im leaving the area. have had hunting partners see a buck once or twice 150 yards from me while we are up...then I hear people talking about all these bucks they see not legal but bone on head none the less and im trying to figure out what im doing wrong. I figured where there is doe a buck cant be far away? then I think there are so many doe why would the boys fight over them when there are 40 more ladies down the trail...but i will still be out trying and enjoying the woods I like the idea of a tag system and letting hunters take there doe tags anytime during the season..


It's only been a tiny amount of time with the new regs. Give it time and more legal bucks will start to show up


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Telum Pisces said:


> It's only been a tiny amount of time with the new regs. Give it time and more legal bucks will start to show up



Or NOT!


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I honestly just would like people to kill mature bucks, and by mature I mean 3.5yrs old, 130+lbs... I honestly don't give a damn how big the horns are... 

When people kill 60lb deer... I'm just like... NEAT! huge accomplishment right there! The deer is so young and so stupid, he doesn't know any better than to run out to your walmart deer piss. 

Again, why kill 2 60lb yearlings when you can kill one mature deer?


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## hsiF deR (Oct 4, 2009)

John B. said:


> Again, why kill 2 60lb yearlings when you can kill one mature deer?


The ratio of 2 year olds to 3 year olds is like 10:1 on FL WMA's. 

Folks kill'em cause that's what they see.


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## mongo (Apr 30, 2008)

John B. said:


> I honestly just would like people to kill mature bucks, and by mature I mean 3.5yrs old, 130+lbs... I honestly don't give a damn how big the horns are...
> 
> When people kill 60lb deer... I'm just like... NEAT! huge accomplishment right there! The deer is so young and so stupid, he doesn't know any better than to run out to your walmart deer piss.
> 
> Again, why kill 2 60lb yearlings when you can kill one mature deer?


I completely agree! I was lying prone hunting last week and had a young spike, two does, and a fawn walk within 15 yards of me. Too small to shoot, they were just fun to watch. Except for the damn fawn that kept blowing at me, running away, coming back and repeating. That little bastard almost got a rock chucked at him.


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## mongo (Apr 30, 2008)

John B. said:


> I honestly just would like people to kill mature bucks, and by mature I mean 3.5yrs old, 130+lbs... I honestly don't give a damn how big the horns are...
> 
> When people kill 60lb deer... I'm just like... NEAT! huge accomplishment right there! The deer is so young and so stupid, he doesn't know any better than to run out to your walmart deer piss.
> 
> Again, why kill 2 60lb yearlings when you can kill one mature deer?


I completely agree! I was lying prone hunting last week and had a young spike, two does, and a fawn walk within 15 yards of me. Too small to shoot, they were just fun to watch. Except for the damn fawn that kept blowing at me, running away, coming back and repeating. That little bastard almost got a rock chucked at him.


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## mongo (Apr 30, 2008)

spike photo


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Don't get me wrong, I've killed plenty of them. I've realized though that I get no enjoyment or a sense of accomplishment from shooting such a small, stupid buck... and yeah, I threw a coke bottle filled with piss at one last week.


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## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

John B. said:


> Don't get me wrong, I've killed plenty of them. I've realized though that I get no enjoyment or a sense of accomplishment from shooting such a small, stupid buck... and yeah, I threw a coke bottle filled with piss at one last week.


See that's the mentality that causes problems. Just because you don't get enjoyment out of it does not mean that others do not. 

I enjoy every kill no matter what size. I have two ten points on the wall. But I still shake and enjoy every time I see a deer of any kind. And if I decide to pull the trigger, I love it. 

Plenty of private land/clubs out there that are managed well for great bucks if that's your thing. Don't impose your opinion on everyone. The south in general is focused on meat hunting. And I dang sure can't eat the antlers.


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## MaxxT (May 9, 2015)

Way too many young bucks are killed in FL...maybe a 6 point 10" rule and 2 bucks a year....2 does limit but where they need more killed sell $50 permits for an additional doe. I would say every different section or area of the state set their own size limits and does for the population of deer there.


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## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

MaxxT said:


> Way too many young bucks are killed in FL...maybe a 6 point 10" rule and 2 bucks a year....2 does limit but where they need more killed sell $50 permits for an additional doe. I would say every different section or area of the state set their own size limits and does for the population of deer there.



Seeing that u don't mind buying your deer ( doe tags) and higher point regs, I'm sure you would be happier in a club were they already have those rules instead of BW. I think the point regs in BW suck already, and I like the option of killing 2 bucks a day. Every day. Although I respect your opinion, I want everybody to be happy. 


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

Imagine how easier it would be to introduce young hunters into the deer hunting world if people that hunted public land or Florida as a hole where limited on bucks and still had the ability to shoot does in rifle season. Rather shoot and 80lb doe then a 5" spike any day of the week. Even seeing does about give me heart attacks in the stand especially the ones that pop up at 40 yards out of no where. Pulling magical tricks and crap..... Oh and also popping those does that like to give away your location lol Boy if I get an antler less tag next year that is exactly what I am saving it for.


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