# southern flounder research



## Morgan_USMflounder (Dec 11, 2014)

Hey all,
I’m a graduate student at the Gulf Coast Research Lab in Mississippi studying Southern Flounder. I am in need of fresh flounder for my project, especially larger fish from offshore throughout December and January. For my research purposes I would only need the heads and organs, which will not affect the fillets in any way. These fish would be most useful to me within 24 hours after catch and on ice. If you would be interested in helping out I can drive to you and fillet the flounder you catch. I know that this time of year it gets trickier to catch flounder so I would be very grateful for any help you can give! Please contact me at: [email protected]
All the best,
Morgan


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## sasquatch biologist (Jun 16, 2014)

Wirelessly posted

Good luck with the research


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

We definitely need some research done. The last two years the southerns have been hard to find in any numbers.


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## GIggaMon (Sep 29, 2010)

flounderslayerman said:


> We definitely need some research done. The last two years the southerns have been hard to find in any numbers.


Aint that the truth


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## purple haze (Sep 2, 2013)

They have slowed down to one or two a trip now. PM me your phone # and I will put some on ice for you. I don't normally keep any between 12 and 14" but if want that size I will keep them whole for you. Now what will you do for us Maybe share some of that information? gene


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Flounder have a cycle 2 or 3 years of strong good runs and a couple slow years of runs. I haven't seen any decline it that cycle for many many years. This year has been a little slow.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

Ron, I've fished flounder for a long time and have never seen it as bad as what the last 2 years have been. Especially this year.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Maybe next year or possibly a slow movement offshore. I remember a few years back getting fl offshore into late Feb. Just have to wait and see


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*Bad*

Worst season I have seen. Actually it has been down hill since Ivan.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

mekell said:


> Worst season I have seen. Actually it has been down hill since Ivan.


No way at least not for me. I have had a few banner years since Ivan.


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*ok*



sealark said:


> No way at least not for me. I have had a few banner years since Ivan.


 
Good for you. My numbers have declined since Ivan. Ivan was beyond belief. Naturally I had no where to go but down. I did say down Not out.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

2012 was an awesome year but the 2 years since have sucked.


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

mekell said:


> Worst season I have seen. Actually it has been down hill since Ivan.


Mike ....the past two years ...especially this year have been horrible. I know I can slay the flounder...hook and line.
I blame the rain last summer and this spring..... too much fresh water ....for the upper bay area I fish. 
I know several other's ( the guy on ten mile road.....lol)whom have had poor catches!


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

flounderslayerman said:


> 2012 was an awesome year but the 2 years since have sucked.


I conccur:notworthy:


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## dsar592 (Oct 12, 2007)

Yes for me 2013 and 2014 were the worst for me. There were nights that I went gigging and did not see a single fish. I sure hope 2015 is much better.


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## bamafan611 (Mar 1, 2010)

Before the oil spill was great and the year of the spill was a good year. I have seen off years in 45 years of floundering and the last two were the poorest I've ever seen. Do you think the millions of gallons of dispersant that went to the bottom might have had an effect on the hatch. I DO. Crabbing/shrimp and flounder numbers are way down and where do they live and spawn? On The Bottom. The resident fish that weren't hit in the face might have been ok, but the fry or even if the breeders made it, in my opinion the fry hatch has been hurt. In my opinion once the resident fish were taken with no replenishment we have the conditions we are seeing now.Hope I'm wrong, but like I said off years are not uncommon, but I've never seen it this bad.The TX and NC group are having banner years and it seems that the Northwest gulf is where we are hurting,makes you wonder.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

The oil spill didn't have a thing to do with hurting fishing in the Pensacola area. The only thing it did was put a lot of Monies in a lot of peoples pockets. It's a cycle AND keep complaining about poor catches and the FWC that monitors this site will be creating more restrictions for Flounder before long.


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*now*



flounder1156 said:


> Mike ....the past two years ...especially this year have been horrible. I know I can slay the flounder...hook and line.
> I blame the rain last summer and this spring..... too much fresh water ....for the upper bay area I fish.
> I know several other's ( the guy on ten mile road.....lol)whom have had poor catches!


 Now.....Who could that be? Are you talking about the man on a mission?


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*???*

Anyone think the Lionfish could have anything to do with the dwindling #s.


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## BuckWild (Oct 2, 2007)

I think it's George Bush's fault.


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

mekell said:


> Now.....Who could that be? Are you talking about the man on a mission?


Haaaa .......Yeah that is him......I will admitt he has killed his share over the years...... 
We both share our theory's why it has been so bad in the Pensacola bay system......His is oil spill related.........Mine is rainfall ,to much freshwater.
I'd like to hear your thought's ....also any other folks that gig or catch flounder ....hook /line ...outside of the Pensacola Bay system. How about you folks over in the Mobile Bay , Mississippi Sound,Biloxi Bay...........also folks to our east ....Choctawhatchee Bay , Panama City....St. Andrews Bay..... give us your thoughts ....and reports.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

Mississippi sound and Mobile bay has been bad also. Last year was bad but damn this year was terrible. The folks to the east of Pensacola haven't faired much better from what I've heard.


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

flounderslayerman said:


> Mississippi sound and Mobile bay has been bad also. Last year was bad but damn this year was terrible. The folks to the east of Pensacola haven't faired much better from what I've heard.


Flounderslayerman .......We are too the east of you.My sons and I fish ( hook/line)the upper Escambia Bay lower river area, Blackwater Bay area. The past two years over in our area have been horrible ...I fished this past summer ,when condition's were excellent...5 trips an caught one flounder...... in past years I have caught eight to ten quality fish....(2-3 lb. er's.) per trip. 
I will say with the record flood/rain of April we have had lots of freshwater effecting the salinity levels...not seeing any baitfish ...menhaden ,mullet, anchovies or tidewater silversides...... NO bait ,NO flounder....!
Hope next year (2015) is better,if it is cyclic!


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## bamafan611 (Mar 1, 2010)

Elliot and flounder 1156 lets look at it next year. the fall run never really happened at all this year . It was a little better last year. The giggers on this thread have put in hundreds of miles and know there is a problem. Exactly what is the question??? Ron thinks it is a cycle. I've been through cycles and still never saw the lack of fish this year produced. Ron dives and hits specific spots that don't get a lot of pressure and quantities can stack up. North / South backbay or pass areas including the gulf have all been sparse.Areas that flounderslayerman and I have hit in the past with great results were completely void the last two years. Like I said lets hope this year is better for all of us. If not you can pedal that cycle theory right down the road. It might be time for marine fisheries to look at the bigger picture.


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## Morgan_USMflounder (Dec 11, 2014)

Wow, thanks for all the responses! I so appreciate your support and hearing your thoughts on the flounder catch. There's only so much to learn by reading about flounder.. Some of the questions I'm hoping to answer are relating to flounder age groups, growth rates, how often they spawn and when/where they spawn, etc. If anyone happens to catch any big southern flounder in the winter months, especially from further offshore, feel free to contact me at 228-818-8816.


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## bamafan611 (Mar 1, 2010)

Will do Morgan.I believe you need the earstones correct?


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

Flounder1156, I killed a ton of gulfs in Pensacola this year but very few southerns. To the west wasn't much better for me either. I sure hope it was the rain, a cycle, or something other than a decimated stock.


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## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

*1156*

I dunno....I have done much thinking and can't come up with anything I can prove. What does sound reasonable to me is the Lion Fish. Everyone knows what they can do to a population on a reef/wreck.


This is what I have heard: A Navy guy who goes to our Church just returned from Haiti. He stated that the population of non Lion Fish species was almost completely destroyed by the Lions. Almost no snapper or grouper left. My brother was reading a similar report from somewhere in Florida. He is attempting to find the source. If he finds it I will post it.

He seems reasonable to me that the flounder are being devoured as frys.
I wish I knew the answer but I don't know what could be done if it is the Lions.


Btw I golf with a guy that hook and lines the same places as you with the same results.


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

flounderslayerman said:


> Flounder1156, I killed a ton of gulfs in Pensacola this year but very few southerns. To the west wasn't much better for me either. I sure hope it was the rain, a cycle, or something other than a decimated stock.


I agree..... I have floundered ..gigging and mainly fishing hook/ line....over forty years...the past two year's have been the worst I can recall.....Very few summer flounder caught.... I did catch a few.... at the pass ( Ft. Mcrae area ) back in August all were gulf's .... fishing friends are saying the same no or very few Summer flounder. I hope this spring April /May 2015...conditions improve...If we have normal rainfall and still no fish appear, then my theory of rainfall will be scratched..........The fact that areas east and west of us whom did not get record rains an still struggle to find fish does not bode well....


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

mekell said:


> I dunno....I have done much thinking and can't come up with anything I can prove. What does sound reasonable to me is the Lion Fish. Everyone knows what they can do to a population on a reef/wreck.
> 
> 
> This is what I have heard: A Navy guy who goes to our Church just returned from Haiti. He stated that the population of non Lion Fish species was almost completely destroyed by the Lions. Almost no snapper or grouper left. My brother was reading a similar report from somewhere in Florida. He is attempting to find the source. If he finds it I will post it.
> ...


I'm sure that the invasive species, Lionfish ...which overwinter in near shore reef habitats will or could have a impact on the hatched fry /larval , juvenile of both summer and gulf flounder species before they migrate to inshore ,bay /sound nursery areas...another competitor. Look at some of the posts on here under the scuba diving reports... all the lionfish harvested from a single reef.... they have to eat something....... 
The impact of rainfall ...flooding, lionfish ,the oil spill fallout, additional fishing pressure .... All.... may begin to have a direct impact on this species......2015 season will be interesting.:watching:


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

Morgan_USMflounder said:


> Hey all,
> I’m a graduate student at the Gulf Coast Research Lab in Mississippi studying Southern Flounder. I am in need of fresh flounder for my project, especially larger fish from offshore throughout December and January. For my research purposes I would only need the heads and organs, which will not affect the fillets in any way. These fish would be most useful to me within 24 hours after catch and on ice. If you would be interested in helping out I can drive to you and fillet the flounder you catch. I know that this time of year it gets trickier to catch flounder so I would be very grateful for any help you can give! Please contact me at: [email protected]
> All the best,
> Morgan


 Morgan ...good luck on your studies...I have the otolith's of several flounder that I have caught or my brother has gigged.... nothing scientific ...just for our information...all were summer flounder. Interesting on the age of these fish for the size ...... all within the age /growth studies conducted by USM researchers..... if you need any fish data...I can obtain from fish I catch...beginning in April 2015 I will or can collect. Length /weight . food habits, fin-clips for DNA ....etc.


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## TRG (Jun 30, 2012)

I usually don't comment to avoid ruffling feathers but here goes. I don't know very many folks that spend as many nights on the water as I do. I've seen slow years and some good years like everyone else but I don't remember another year this bad. When I cover 8 to 10 miles of shoreline a night and many nights without seeing one flounder something isn't right. I hope and believe the flood played a major roll. It was not a lack of food/bait because I spent many nights trying to run the bait fish out from under my lights just so i could see bottom. However I will say near the end of the season I did see more 2" babies than I have in the last few years. So like everyone else I will be on the water anxiously waiting for next season.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

With this windy weather for this coming Christmas week there should be a lot of happy Flounder spawning without any problems from Fishermen offshore.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Summery for me this year is, a Normal to good average year.


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

sealark said:


> Summery for me this year is, a Normal to good average year.


Diving maybe but not gigging or rod n reel.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Think about it, Maybe the flounder are starting to learn it's not safe going up into shallow water to feed and move offshore to spawn. All living things react like that they see some of there buddies get killed they will become more cautious. In the last few like 20 years since the gill netting ban there have been many more waders and boat gigers floundering. Evolution at her finest live and learn. Plus the days of wading with a coleman lantern are long gone.


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## Jeffbro999#2 (Feb 17, 2014)

It is very interesting to hear everyone's theories on this and the experiences they have had through the years. Last year was a good year for me, most trips would catch a limit on rod and reel no problem. This year I have only had a few trips with anything good to show. Most trips were 2 maybe 3. Some ended with 7 or 8. Still not what it should have been. I figured the cold had something to do with it this year. It got so cold so quick in November that I watched overnight the bait disappear up shallow. No finger mullet, no bull minnows. Without bait theres not gonna be many fish. Usually that time of year it's easy to catch lots of trout, reds and flounder up real shallow but not this year. I think everything moved off the flats in a hurry before everyone knew what was going on. Hopefully spring will be better.


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