# CCL info. please help.



## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

I would like to get a concealed carry license but Im not sure which is the best method for getting one. I know the gun show will be at the fairgrounds this weekend and they offer a class? I've also heard something about taking a hunter safety class and going over to ft. walton at some office and its faster that way? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## JMSUN (Feb 24, 2010)

The quickest way would probably be to take the course at the gun show. If you have hunter safety course certification you are good to go. If not, you could take the hunter safety course and kill 2 birds with one stone. I think it might be free as well. And yes, the quickest and easiest way is to go to the office in Fort Walton. Have you ever been involved in any firearms competition? some things like that will be accepted as well.


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## JMSUN (Feb 24, 2010)

I might add that the hunter safety course certification does not have to necessarily be from Florida.


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## midnight son (Apr 1, 2011)

Ace,

First thing I would do is peruse chapter 790 in the FL statutes to see exactly what training qualifies the state requirement for getting a CCW. The list is located there. Prior or current military, Hunter Safety, and a class taught by an NRA certified instructor are the most common methods that I know of to receive acceptable credentials.

The Florida Department of Agriculture, licensing branch, in Ft. Walton Beach is the best, and quickest, way to process your permit application after you have received acceptable training. Much faster than sending all paperwork to Tallahassee. I've known people to get permits in less than a week after processing at Ft. Walton. They work by appointment only, give them a call.

If you still need assistance or training, I teach the NRA's "First Steps Pistol" class at Shoal River Sporting Clays in Crestview. This is a 4 hour class that meets the state requirements for training. My next class is February 24th. If I may be of assistance, shoot me a pm.

No matter what your avenue to secure training, some are better than others, just make you mind up to do it, and go get thet CCW!


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## collectorden (Jun 2, 2011)

My wife got her's from the class at the last Pensacola gun show. It took about 2 months to receive it. I got mine from the Ft Walton DOA office with my DD214. It took about 10 days to receive it, but it took 4 weeks to get an appointment, and that was 2 years ago.

Edit: She went to class on 19 Nov, mailed it 22 Nov and received it 14 Jan.


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## dholley77 (Jun 5, 2009)

I took my class at the gun show back in December and got it back in two weeks.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

If you search for similar threads you will find that this topic gets rehashed quite often, but with good info.
Quick re-cap .......once you get your safety cert, you should call the FWB office and set up an appointment, they are usually about 2 weeks to 2 months behind....but still the fastest and most efficient way.
As far as the safety cert goes. The Gunshow is the cheapest and fastest way to get it, but you will be competing with a LOT of other people to get into the class, and in the end will be certified by shooting ONE bullet.
This may satisfy the law, but I would not want to walk into a gunfight with that training. Do yourself a favor and choose a local instructor for some real training on multiple weapons. I don't know the others, so I will suggest Capt Ron. You will fire over 200 rounds with multiple weapons, and be taught to shoot quickly and fix jams and failures quickly.
http://www.iwillnotbeavictim.com/


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks for all of the information guys. I have been putting off getting my license for way to long. I just didn't wanna miss the class at the fairgrounds again if that is the best way to go about getting a license. I have no kind of certifications but i was raised around hunting and have been shooting for many years. Is the class at the fairgrounds a complete package for getting a license?


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

The class will give you the certificate of completion and the application package for the State. You will have to complete the application and send it to the State with the license fee. If the Fairgrounds class doesn't include the finger prints (some do & some don't) - you will need to have that done at the PPD or ECSO. You'll also need a passport-size color photograph to go with your application package. Going to the Dept of Agriculture office in FWB seems to provide the quickest turn-around time.

As for the training in the class at the Fairgrounds...it is not that valuable -- but required to get the license unless you have a hunter safety course certificate or a military DD214. Just sit through the class and take what you are told with a grain of salt. Much of it will be more opinion rather than fact... 

Once you get your license -- and you are legal to carry a CCW firearm, seek out some good training from a qualified instructor. I made a decision when I satrted carrying a firearm daily that I wanted to develop a level of proficiency, rather than the bare minimum needed to obtain the license.

Such training will focus on safety, the fundementals, mindset, and dealing with malfunctions. A good instructor will allow you to "take the curve" as fast as you can -- but is not simply motivated by speed. Getting good hits is the most important skill -- and that usually involves a significant amount of time and instruction devoted to proper trigger control.

Expect that such training will involve a considerable financial investment. Spending two to three times the cost of a typical self defense firearm on the training to use it is the norm....for quality instruction.

Ask plenty of questions and find out what the training, experience, and background of your instructor is -- before you sign up for the training. There are many "instructors" out there -- but their teaching style, personality, and methods range from excellent to downright unsafe and dangerous.

My sig line in this post has links for who and where I personally choose to train and maintain my firearms proficiency -- if that helps. I recommend both highly.


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## 97ford150 (Oct 5, 2007)

I got mine thru Escambia River Muzzle Loaders they are a great much of people they just use the range for the shooting part.
This is the link - http://www.erml-gunclub.org/

If you want to get good hands on information go see Capt. Ron (he is on here also)
This is his website- http://www.iwillnotbeavictim.com/


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

I will certify you for $1.00 , yes that's one US dollar!
And I will double the gun show' training by allowing you to shoot two bullets!
You will get absolutely no training and I will only have to watch you safely handle and discharge the firearm as required by law.
Is this what you really want for your training experience?

Here's the catch...
I want to make a video of this horrific training that is allowed by the state and play it on youtube.


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## SLICK75 (Sep 4, 2010)

Though I sometimes wish I had actually taken a CC class, my LEO training certificate from '04 was sufficient to get the card from the DAG office in Ft. Walton.

I sometimes wish I had actually attended a training course but in the long run I feel like it wouldve been wasted money since I got 4 months of firearms training by professional police versus a couple of hours of gun safety from someone thats just going through the motions so you can get a permit.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Capt Ron said:


> Here's the catch...
> I want to make a video of this horrific training that is allowed by the state and play it on youtube.


Be careful what you wish for... As much as I agree that the required "training" is a joke -- it does create an easy means for law abiding citizens to obtain the legal license to carry a concealed weapon.

Making and posting such a video would just be ammunition for the anti-second amendment folks to lobby for more stringent rules and training requirements in order to obtain a State CWL -- not something that any of us want (at least I don't think we want to see such an attack on our rights...)

Although in the short term it could mean more business for firearms instructors -- it would actually create a barrier and prevent many law abiding citizens from gaining the legal right to carry a concealed weapon (even though the level of most CWL-holder's training is none -- they're still the "good guys" in my mind).


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

scubapro said:


> Be careful what you wish for... As much as I agree that the required "training" is a joke -- it does create an easy means for law abiding citizens to obtain the legal license to carry a concealed weapon.
> 
> Making and posting such a video would just be ammunition for the anti-second amendment folks to lobby for more stringent rules and training requirements in order to obtain a State CWL -- not something that any of us want (at least I don't think we want to see such an attack on our rights...)
> 
> Although in the short term it could mean more business for firearms instructors -- it would actually create a barrier and prevent many law abiding citizens from gaining the legal right to carry a concealed weapon (even though the level of most CWL-holder's training is none -- they're still the "good guys" in my mind).


I believe in a "well regulated militia" and to me that means some standard of training across the board. I believe in greater training requirements if you want to carry a gun where I and my family may be in public.
I don't believe in easy ways to get anything. Lack of training leads to more ND's which give anti-gunners the ammunition they need to fight against the rest of us.
More training= less negligence and accidents. 
There needs to be some standard test before people may be allowed to carry in public. 
I respect everyone's rights to have opinions on this matter, but my opinion has been well thought out for the long term political outcome of second amendment rights in the state of Florida.


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## PompChaser315 (Feb 18, 2011)

Nevermind...


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

SLICK75 said:


> Though I sometimes wish I had actually taken a CC class, my LEO training certificate from '04 was sufficient to get the card from the DAG office in Ft. Walton.
> 
> I sometimes wish I had actually attended a training course but in the long run I feel like it wouldve been wasted money since I got 4 months of firearms training by professional police versus a couple of hours of gun safety from someone thats just going through the motions so you can get a permit.


Slick, You may sit in on the legal portion of any of my ccw (portion 1.5hrs) classes without charge. You will get the most in depth ccw law review available in Florida.

My ccw training in 2-3 hours of actual range time goes far beyond any standard Florida law enforcement firearms pistol training that they give or receive. It's really not hard for most civilian instructors to honestly say that. I am also an FDLE firearms instructor. I know exactly what they are taught.


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## flappininthebreeze (Jul 13, 2009)

*Capt.Ron Training*



Capt Ron said:


> Slick, You may sit in on the legal portion of any of my ccw (portion 1.5hrs) classes without charge. You will get the most in depth ccw law review available in Florida.
> 
> My ccw training in 2-3 hours of actual range time goes far beyond any standard Florida law enforcement firearms pistol training that they give or receive. It's really not hard for most civilian instructors to honestly say that. I am also an FDLE firearms instructor. I know exactly what they are taught.


If you are serious about being a responsible CWL holder and concealed carrier, pony up and take Capt. Ron's training course, or an equivalent one (if you can find one). You will be a more responsible license holder for the effort. This ain't the training you want to take a shortcut on. :thumbsup:


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## SLICK75 (Sep 4, 2010)

Capt Ron said:


> Slick, You may sit in on the legal portion of any of my ccw (portion 1.5hrs) classes without charge. You will get the most in depth ccw law review available in Florida.
> 
> My ccw training in 2-3 hours of actual range time goes far beyond any standard Florida law enforcement firearms pistol training that they give or receive. It's really not hard for most civilian instructors to honestly say that. I am also an FDLE firearms instructor. I know exactly what they are taught.


Just curious, how does your course compare to the firearms qualifications that I went through for Law Enforcement Training? 

That is the training certificate that I used to get my permit so it wasnt like I just attended some hunters safety course or anything like that. I DO remember them saying "A badge does NOT double as a CWP." during part of the course, but we covered all sorts of scenarios related to LE, just not sure how that translates to CWP. 

I really appreciate the offer, I may get up with you on that soon. It wont be in the next two months, I work 21 and 21 and I have a training school next week in LA then come home for a week before going back to work. I will see what I can pull off next time Im home though if your schedule permits.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Slick, all of us should train all the time and not just take a class and be done with it. Go ahead and schedule a class when you get home, it can never hurt and will be a good refresher. Maybe you can get homeland security training thru your company on the rig or at their expense.

Hope you are doing well!


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## jmsiv (Oct 13, 2011)

You can also schedule an appointment in the Tallahassee office. Yeah, you have to drive over there but they have had much shorter turn around and appointment times. It can actually make a nice day trip. 

I like how so many people get "up in arms" about how little training is needed to get your CCW in Florida. If Florida upped the ante and required you to have x number of hours and proven proficiency, people would get all upset about that, claiming violation of rights or something.

I think we all know that the government would never find a happy middle. I'll take the system they have now, any day.


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## Az-Vic (Jan 7, 2012)

Just another reason I love my home state; where any law abiding citizen maintains the constitutional recognition to carry open or concealed, with or without an issued CCW permit. I still maintain my permit, mainly for the fact 34 other states, 6 of which I travel thru from Az to here in Florida maintain reciprocity with Arizonas CCW permit.
My observation is; there are just as many idiots that have passed "school" instruction and have a CCW and a Keltec stuffed in their pocket, as those who have not been knowed up by a wannbe tactician who runs a school. There are a vast number of day to day endeavors that if passing a test were required, we could drown about 20% of the population to prevent them from sucking good air from the rest of us.
There is no replacement for logic,thinking,courtesy and reasoning. Thankfully, most of us posess a modicum of each; sadly,there will always be those that don't. We will never "legislate" that fact away.


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## SLICK75 (Sep 4, 2010)

FrankwT said:


> Slick, all of us should train all the time and not just take a class and be done with it. Go ahead and schedule a class when you get home, it can never hurt and will be a good refresher. Maybe you can get homeland security training thru your company on the rig or at their expense.
> 
> Hope you are doing well!


Oh yeah, Im really considering it. I see nothing wrong with a little extra training. If nothing else it gives me a chance to get caught up on any changes to the laws. 

My LE training was 8 or 9 years ago, Im sure a lot has changed since then. As a matter of fact Florida had either JUST passed the 'castle doctrine' or it was up for vote while I was in the school. I remember it being mentioned in other classes besides the firearms part. When you consider I just got my CWP last year that leaves a lot of time for changes or clarifications on the law.

On one hand I was glad that I didnt have to go through a course again to get my permit, but at the same time I would like to go through something a little more in depth than a basic safety course. 

Right before I got my permit I talked to a guy that puts on a course. I was asking him about requirements and such and when he told me that it was simply a 2 hr course at his place on gun safety I decided I had that more than covered with my LE certificate (48 hours including safety AND shooting), especially after he told me about the .380 hole in his floor from an AD *following* a previous class. No kidding, he told the class "Congratulations, youre done." and BANG! a student puts a hole in the floor putting his gun in the holster. The scary part... That person went on the get a permit.:no:

I doubt Transocean would put much thought into DHS training, they dont even trust us to carry pocket knives on board. If a rig goes to an area that needs security its covered by a security specialist company. Heck, we didnt even get security while we were in Egypt during their political uprisings even though our hotel was in downtown Cairo.
Besides, I dont have much faith in DHS myself, but that another topic altogether.:whistling:


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

*capt.ron training*

Capt RON what is your FDLE cert. Number and exp. date And what agency are you cert. through I called and could not find this information. It would be of great help if we know this information so we could know we are dealing with a up front individual. that has Leo training exp. before you start downing Loe training as you have in the pass. I know what it takes to get a Leo cert. I have had mine for over 10 years and that much teachering exp. pus. jj


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Funny, my daughter-in law had a person break into the house this week while she was at home. The dogs acted up and she saw his hand thru the Fl room glass door. She ran up the stairs and called her Mom and she called me. OFF I go, get there, get her out, clear the house, yard and storage shed, the OKaloosa sheriff Dep. shows up. Advising them I had her safe and had cleared the property, they told me to let them do that and I should not have or even come over...*I politely reminded the 6 of them, I was there first and did not feel as though I could wait for them to keep her safe.* Asked if I was armed, I said not right now as I had returned my gun to the car before they arrived which I thought was a good idea and stated I had a carry license. They were pissed and repeated I should let them do it, I left the property without further discussion.


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## SLICK75 (Sep 4, 2010)

FrankwT said:


> Funny, my daughter-in law had a person break into the house this week while she was at home. The dogs acted up and she saw his hand thru the Fl room glass door. She ran up the stairs and called her Mom and she called me. OFF I go, get there, get her out, clear the house, yard and storage shed, the OKaloosa sheriff Dep. shows up. Advising them I had her safe and had cleared the property, they told me to let them do that and I should not have or even come over...*I politely reminded the 6 of them, I was there first and did not feel as though I could wait for them to keep her safe.* Asked if I was armed, I said not right now as I had returned my gun to the car before they arrived which I thought was a good idea and stated I had a carry license. They were pissed and repeated I should let them do it, I left the property without further discussion.


LOL They were just mad because you spoiled their fun. Aint often they get to do anything but work fender benders and rope drunks and you just took one of their opportunities.:thumbup:


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

FrankwT - thankful to hear that your daughter-in law (and you) is safe. You did the right thing. Many LEOs wouldn't criticize you like the OCSD guys did. Most LEOs would admit that they usually clean up the mess and investigate the crimes after they occur -- rather than actually protect anyone. The thugs are really getting bold these days -- with daylight break-ins and home invasions...

Get her a nice little shotgun so that next time when the hand comes through the window -- the guy on the other end won't have the opportunity to leave...


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks Scuba, I was not going to argue with them but I did point out I was there first and had time to clear the property before they got there. I had even returned my gun to the truck for safety. I guess I was supposed to get there, sit in the truck while she could have been raped and murdered while I waited...NOT

a shot gun may be a good idea....


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

FrankwT said:


> Thanks Scuba, I was not going to argue with them but I did point out I was there first and had time to clear the property before they got there. I had even returned my gun to the truck for safety. I guess I was supposed to get there, sit in the truck while she could have been raped and murdered while I waited...NOT
> 
> a shot gun may be a good idea....


X2 on glad you and her are safe. without question you did what i think is the only thing to do. i'm sure they deal with plenty of wanna-be heroes and cowboys. it's not an excuse for them to treat everyone with the "let us handle it" attitude though.


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## K-Bill (May 14, 2009)

glassplus said:


> Capt RON what is your FDLE cert. Number and exp. date And what agency are you cert. through I called and could not find this information. It would be of great help if we know this information so we could know we are dealing with a up front individual. that has Leo training exp. before you start downing Loe training as you have in the pass. I know what it takes to get a Leo cert. I have had mine for over 10 years and that much teachering exp. pus. jj


hahaha... this was fun.


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## PompNewbie (Oct 1, 2007)

Not to start a rumble or anything but it would be nice to get a list of people on here that do offer Cert classes. I know my wife needs to attend one real soon


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## SLICK75 (Sep 4, 2010)

scubapro said:


> FrankwT - thankful to hear that your daughter-in law (and you) is safe. You did the right thing. Many LEOs wouldn't criticize you like the OCSD guys did. Most LEOs would admit that they usually clean up the mess and investigate the crimes after they occur -- rather than actually protect anyone. The thugs are really getting bold these days -- with daylight break-ins and home invasions...
> 
> Get her a nice little shotgun so that next time when the hand comes through the window -- the guy on the other end won't have the opportunity to leave...


Not all OCSD people feel that way. I talked to one not long ago that actually said she wished MORE people had permits. 

Of course theres a control freak in every crowd too, law enforcement isnt immune to that.


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

PompNewbie said:


> Not to start a rumble or anything but it would be nice to get a list of people on here that do offer Cert classes. I know my wife needs to attend one real soon



I agree. I would like to know who offers the best training in the pensacola area.


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

Well i decided to head to the gun show this morning and take the ccw class. it was a pretty good class and they took care of everything i need for my license i.e. class, photo, and fingerprints. I will mail my packet to tallahassee on Tuesday and see how long it takes to actually get my license.


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

You'll get a quicker turn-around time if you make an appointment to go to the local Dept. of Agriculture office and submit your package...


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks. The guy running the class said its faster to send it to tallahassee rather than taking to a local office. he said it should take approximately 2 weeks to receive my license.


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Just curious but why did you ask for advice and then ignore everything everyone said.....no offense, just seems like you value the word of the instructor that charged you for advise, as opposed to the good,solid experienced advice you received here for free. If you care so little about the advice of PFF members dont ask for it. Some people would take offense to it, most will just not bother to "help" anymore.


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

How did i ignore all the advice? i read through all the replies and thought about my options and then pursued the path that suited me best. I also received advice from friends and coworkers. If the instructor is correct and i can receive my license in 2 weeks i see no reason to not take his advise.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

I takes 1 week from your local AG office, not 2 if mailed to tally.


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks frank. ill give them a call. i mainly considered the mailing option because it would be easier for me because between my work schedule and my kid i very rarely have any time during weekdays to take care of any business.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

I think it will take no time, just drop it off at the desk, let them check the paperwork and you are outta there in 2 min. I did the whole thing there and it took 22 min and I was out the door...just an FYI


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

ace529 said:


> I agree. I would like to know who offers the best training in the pensacola area.


I met a very professional guy at the Gun Show yesterday, who is an instructor -- has a range in the Yellow River area of Santa Rosa County -- and has trained under many nationally recognized instructors at facilities such as Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc.

Although I have not personally taken a course from him -- I was impressed by his "no-BS" approach and professional demeanor. Sometimes, it only takes a few minutes of discussion to size someone up compared to the local competition -- and I was quite impressed with this gentleman.

Here is his contact information should anyone be looking for *local options* for a firearm training facility and instructor in the greater Pensacola area:










I think that he is worthy of consideration.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Scuba, I have heard of Bussey, very well respected and highly desired instructor! Is he on the forum? Needs to be!


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

I mentioned the PFF to him. He said that he wasn't a member, but that he planned to visit soon. Maybe he will like what he sees and decide to join.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

I hope so, I may want a refresher course with him, everything I have heard is excellent!


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

glassplus said:


> Capt RON what is your FDLE cert. Number and exp. date And what agency are you cert. through I called and could not find this information. It would be of great help if we know this information so we could know we are dealing with a up front individual. that has Leo training exp. before you start downing Loe training as you have in the pass. I know what it takes to get a Leo cert. I have had mine for over 10 years and that much teachering exp. pus. jj


As an active firearms instructor with previous experience and recommendations from federal judges and other LEO instructors both federal and state, I was the only civilian allowed (with much special consideration and permission)to go through the 44hr/5 day class with 35 LEO's that the Escambia County Sheriff Office sponsored Training course. It was an honor to be among Escambia's finest as well as many LEOs from other departments. 14JUN2009 was my graduation date. As a civilian, NOT employed by a LEO agency, I do not get put into any registration system nor am I issued any number other than what's on my paper graduation certificate. I merely get a certificate that confirms I have graduated from the FDLE course as an instructor. I am allowed to volunteer with the sheriffs office on the range if I ever have the time. 


From my experience from my class:
Most certainly due to lack of funding and time, anyone who is a graduate of an FDLE instructor course knows that this course is NOT designed to teach anything about shooting or how to shoot. You are already suppose to be a perfected shooter. This is typical of most instructor courses. It's only designed to teach LEO's to teach other LEO's the course of fire for the FL State LEO qualification. I learned more about LEO's on a personal level than learning any shooting skills. What I did learn was that most LEO's are not big gun guys or if you are, you may be called a gun ***. Remember Tackleberry in the Police Academy series..yeah he was a "gun ***".
Out of my class of 35, I believe 9 officers failed to qualify on the range to continue through the rest of the training. We only shot pistols at 75' max... Yes, Pressure even effects people who carry for a living. LEO's are people too.

As far as getting to know people...
You will never know who you are dealing with upfront unless you meet the person and get to know him. You can see all my certifications on my office wall when you come to visit. I have them in nice frames from Walmart ($1.99). I hope no one only goes by anyone's certifications. A person should do more research than that.
We all should know by now that Certifications don't mean S#&%! Just come meet me, shoot with me (bring money, ask my students about me. I'm not perfect shooter, but I am the best instructor, but I also realize I may not be the best instructor for _you_. It's all I do everyday, 365 days a year. It's a full-time job for me, not just a part time gig for beer money or a way to write of some tax expenses.

Ever meet a guy that basically lives on a certified zoned and insured gun range who teaches students one on one seven days a week? Yeah, that's
alotta lead exposure coupled with having to drink Milton's water supply...and you may be right...that could just be the reason I am the way I am 

It's funny...no matter how much I "puff out my chest" in jest competitive innocent play fun, no one here actually challenges me to a pistol shoot off. 

I will say it again. I'm a better teacher than a shooter. I'm not perfect, I don't mind losing to anyone. I did get out-shot one time at 200' by an ECSO Deputy, his 9/10 beat my 8/10, but I have never been a distance guy and it wasn't for money See. just like you guys I can make excuses too!

Heck, I'll out-shoot you with your own pistol if need be. I just like to shoot one on one for some change. It's some of the most safe pressure one can experience while shooting.

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your target stand down!

Let's be safe and have fun!


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## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

Capt Ron said:


> As a civilian, NOT employed by a LEO agency, I do not get put into any registration system nor am I issued any number other than what's on my paper graduation certificate.


That sounds like "auditing" a course in college... You get to sit in and listen -- but receive no credit or certification. Bummer...



Capt Ron said:


> I hope no one only goes by anyone's certifications. A person should do more research than that.


I agree *completely*.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

scubapro said:


> That sounds like "auditing" a course in college... You get to sit in and listen -- but receive no credit or certification. Bummer...
> 
> 
> 
> I agree *completely*.


It's a certification accepted by the State of Florida. I can be employed by a sheriff's dept anytime to help teach or volunteer with their firearms training. 

Are you looking for college credits? Certification to do what? Unless youre an employed LEO or you just like volunteering, it's not really good for anything else unless you do what I do.

But it really makes no difference how anyone else views the training because there's nothing being taught other than the LEO course and I really don't think that's what civilians need or want. It's meets the requirement along with a very long test and lots of money to become a certified FL State Dept of Ag & Consumer Services firearms Instructor. And if the state of Florida says it's a certification then that's good enough for me!


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm taking the CC class offered at Styx River Shooting Center tommorrow evening. The class is $75.00. I'm bringing my .380 and some ammo.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Burnt Drag said:


> I'm taking the CC class offered at Styx River Shooting Center tommorrow evening. The class is $75.00. I'm bringing my .380 and some ammo.



If you aren't pre-registerd/committed to the class tomorrow night and you want to keep your money inside Florida, there are instructors here on the PFF that can probably do it for $75.00 also if you ask.

If you don't have an appointment with dept of ag already, you have about normally two weeks to get a class first.

Did Styx raise their price or is it a different class? 
I thought Tony normally does an NRA Basic pistol class for $50.00. I don't think anyone here does it for that price on a regular basis.

Please let us know the details of the class when your done so that I can share the info with people who's first question is: How much is your class?

If you don't train with me, train with a PFF member instructor, if not a PFF member, at least a local guy in Florida.
Like a family we all don't have to get along or like each other, but we should at least keep the money in the family. 
Just my opinion.


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

Capt. Ron Yes you did attend that class, I was one of the inst. at that class and I know how you allowed to attend.(oh GEG said hi) . The class was put on by GSTC and not by ECSO That was one reason you were allowed and if I remember you went to the school board saying you were trying to get your K- license. and that would help you. That cert is good for two things one is just to say you attend the class and the other is to get a ccl I thank,you can correct me If I'm wrong. I will take you on a Shoot and several more said they would probably show up to. Any one that knows me know that I'm willing to burn some power any time in any thing.I have a quiet place to shoot with all kind of targets. Even better why don't you come and shoot the South East IPSC match in FROST PROOF Florida I will be there. If not I will make it a point to get up with you when I get back. I'm such that we can learn something from you. I'm always up to learning. An I have probably have enough cert.to cover your wall from my 40+ yrs of shooting and training,I don't have any of them on my wall, as you said a cert doesn't make a good inst. I don't tell many but I have been In two shooting incidents, one came out good and the other cost me alot of money so I have been there was not on the job, was personal protection. I would not have a 12yr old shooting a 12ga 3in mag. against a wall. I could go on but I'm retired and not suppose to work this hard. jj


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

glassplus said:


> Capt. Ron Yes you did attend that class, I was one of the inst. at that class and I know how you allowed to attend.(oh GEG said hi) . The class was put on by GSTC and not by ECSO That was one reason you were allowed and if I remember you went to the school board saying you were trying to get your K- license. and that would help you. That cert is good for two things one is just to say you attend the class and the other is to get a ccl I thank,you can correct me If I'm wrong. I will take you on a Shoot and several more said they would probably show up to. Any one that knows me know that I'm willing to burn some power any time in any thing.I have a quiet place to shoot with all kind of targets. Even better why don't you come and shoot the South East IPSC match in FROST PROOF Florida I will be there. If not I will make it a point to get up with you when I get back. I'm such that we can learn something from you. I'm always up to learning. An I have probably have enough cert.to cover your wall from my 40+ yrs of shooting and training,I don't have any of them on my wall, as you said a cert doesn't make a good inst. I don't tell many but I have been In two shooting incidents, one came out good and the other cost me alot of money so I have been there was not on the job, was personal protection. I would not have a 12yr old shooting a 12ga 3in mag. against a wall. I could go on but I'm retired and not suppose to work this hard. jj


I'd like to hear about your shooting incidences so that I may share them with my students from someone who has experienced it first hand. I have avoided every incident I could over the 20 years I have been able to carry simply because I learned that a ccw license is a license to run away with pride! Living in the heart of Warrington and being a landlord for over 10 years I have had nearly a dozen incidences that I believe I could have used deadly force without much legal fear and 5 incidences where for "sure" I would have barely even been questioned, but my nature is to avoid headaches or possible headaches whenever I can. I teach my students that retreating is always a respectable option as well, but when you can't retreat, don't miss!
My range is very quiet also with no other shooters other than ourselves. I have over 40 zoned acres to play on in the farm country. I'd also like to see how your shooting styles and techniques have changed over the years as the training has changed for you. I'm guessing you transitioned from revolver to semi-auto during your career. I don't try to change anyones shooting style(especially my more experienced students) unless they want to change. I simply focus deeper on the fundamentals that apply to all grips and stances, etc.

I also believe, no matter what your grip, firearm, or position is that a clear front sight on the center of blurr is still the center of a blurr. 

As far as IPSC, weekends are my bill paying days or I would be at ERML doing IDPA. I have a bunch of steel targets and plates, but no movers yet. When the extra funds allow I'd like to get some for the range.

Let me know when you get back.

Perhaps I need to host a small tourney for PFF. I have a huge pit for all the probable BS to flow into!


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## helo_hunter (Oct 2, 2007)

Like Ron said, there are a number of instructors on the PFF site who teach part time. Lots of experience on the Forum.
For example, I have been a NRA Certified Instructor since 1987, teach nowadays with a partner and with ERML. Before that, taught firearms orientation (safety and marksmanship) at the Naval Academy in 1977. I have a full time job with the Navy so most of my instruction is on the weekends. 
Like to shoot with others for fun and to learn just how much I don't know.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Capt Ron said:


> If you aren't pre-registerd/committed to the class tomorrow night and you want to keep your money inside Florida, there are instructors here on the PFF that can probably do it for $75.00 also if you ask.
> 
> If you don't have an appointment with dept of ag already, you have about normally two weeks to get a class first.
> 
> ...


 Well Ron, others, the class was excellent. BTW, these folks are "family", 
they have offered great service as I shoot trap, skeet, and 5 stand there often. I've purchased ammo, reloading stuff, and never had a bad moment there. The first part of the class covered things that I was already familier... pistol operation, revolver operation, ammo type, bullet type, Safety, safety, safety, and more safety. We all handled the weapons, single action revolver, double action revolver, single action pistol, DA pistol..etc.. Sight picture, trigger squeeze.. stance etc. Dominant eye ID.
and then we went out and shot our weapons. All 18 of us. There were 3 instructors so, things went faster. What I observed were 4 young women (under 40) 6 women in their 60s 5 guys over 60 and 3 guys under 50. There were at least 8 of the group that had very little experience with hand guns. These fellows did a fine job and one redheaded lady put 5 rounds into the 10 ring. I would hate to break into her house. After class, our instructor gave some more very valueable safety advice. There was some stuff he talked about that I had'nt given much thought to. AND>>>> 
I got to get some primers, a shell holder, and some de-capping pins for my dies. I'll give them an A. Not an A+ because Cameron Diaz wasn't there.


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Burnt Drag said:


> Well Ron, others, the class was excellent. BTW, these folks are "family",
> they have offered great service as I shoot trap, skeet, and 5 stand there often. I've purchased ammo, reloading stuff, and never had a bad moment there. The first part of the class covered things that I was already familier... pistol operation, revolver operation, ammo type, bullet type, Safety, safety, safety, and more safety. We all handled the weapons, single action revolver, double action revolver, single action pistol, DA pistol..etc.. Sight picture, trigger squeeze.. stance etc. Dominant eye ID.
> and then we went out and shot our weapons. All 18 of us. There were 3 instructors so, things went faster. What I observed were 4 young women (under 40) 6 women in their 60s 5 guys over 60 and 3 guys under 50. There were at least 8 of the group that had very little experience with hand guns. These fellows did a fine job and one redheaded lady put 5 rounds into the 10 ring. I would hate to break into her house. After class, our instructor gave some more very valueable safety advice. There was some stuff he talked about that I had'nt given much thought to. AND>>>>
> I got to get some primers, a shell holder, and some de-capping pins for my dies. I'll give them an A. Not an A+ because Cameron Diaz wasn't there.


Well, I'm sure everyone here in the PFF family understands you keeping the money in your family too 

How long was the class and how many rounds were required to shoot?

Was it actually an NRA Class?
Was an NRA certificate issued? Some of my students need specifically an NRA certificate for their other home state. 

I really Like Brad and Russell there also. I actually miss Hearing Richard the RSO yell, "Two seconds in between shots people! No rapid fire!!!"


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Congrats, Burnt Drag. I Think it would be very helpful to the rest if you would be so kind as to let us know a few more details of the class. Mainly:
-How many rounds you fired
-were you able to practice "double taps" or just slow single "target style shooting".
-If you actually fired the other weapons or just "handled" them.
- If you were introduced to or practiced procedures for failures in auto pistols ....( failures to fire/failure to feed/double feed)
These points (mainly the last one) can be VERY important and would give us a good idea of what you get for the price.
Thanks, Scott.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks Scott,
You must remember that this is the basic NRA "introduction" to handguns and is required for the CC permit. We will get a completion certificate by saturday. The instructor did'nt get into any "advanced" subjects like clearing jams. That would come in an advanced course. We covered stances, and such. With some of the women in this course, (at this point) I would'nt want to be standing near them as they attempted to clear any sort of weapon. I did some "rapid" fire, not too rapid, I wanted to be precise. As far as number of rounds fired, I personally shot about 30.
Some of the folks shot more, some less. We were welcome to fire any of the weapons there, but I shoot a good bit with my Mk 1, less with my Bersa, and have been since I was in my teens, so there was no real novelty in shooting anything there. I had an FFL from 1982-1991, so I shot just about everything from 1911s to 
Dirty Harry guns. Range safety was another important thing that I saw taught. For many it was their first time at a range, and the range etiquette taught on that subject was real important. Oh, the class began at 5:30 and was over at 9:15. The instructors advised, pleaded, emphesized the important of practice. You folks should have seen the shakey hands... trigger snatching... etc. I think the instructors did a fine job of taking these people who were ignorant aside and giving advice, and technique instruction. Tony told them that they needed to practice at least once a month. Any other questions?


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## ace529 (Oct 14, 2011)

Capt Ron.....do you allow people to shoot on your property for a fee or is it only your students who are allowed to shoot?


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## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

ace529 said:


> Capt Ron.....do you allow people to shoot on your property for a fee or is it only your students who are allowed to shoot?


ACE,
I have to be there whenever anyone shoots, because it's a clause in my insurance.

I usually do a one hour or two hour session at $60 per hour.
You can split a 2 hr session ($120)with your buddy, so he basically pays for your time while youre reloading and he's shooting. I only allow one shooter at a time typically..

All my guns are available at no extra charge, you simply bring the ammo for them if you want to shoot. I don't supply ammo for range time(CCW classes only).

If your looking to just plink...it's pretty expensive. If you're looking to train to the next level, it's the best deal around. Your training satisfaction is guaranteed if I can't help you improve your shooting.


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## Clay-Doh (Oct 2, 2007)

Ron, seems like you got a couple that just find all your threads or post to pick you apart. Who's Wheaties did you piss in brother? ha ha. 

Whenever you and Stacey are up to get some diving in let me know and we'll get out.

By the way...all the lead you deal with, and I guess lead in the Milton drinking water? explain a lot about you.:whistling:

Talk to you soon


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## Firefishvideo (Jul 1, 2010)

Burnt Drag said:


> Thanks Scott,
> You must remember that this is the basic NRA "introduction" to handguns and is required for the CC permit. We will get a completion certificate by saturday. The instructor did'nt get into any "advanced" subjects like clearing jams. That would come in an advanced course. We covered stances, and such. With some of the women in this course, (at this point) I would'nt want to be standing near them as they attempted to clear any sort of weapon. I did some "rapid" fire, not too rapid, I wanted to be precise. As far as number of rounds fired, I personally shot about 30.
> Some of the folks shot more, some less. We were welcome to fire any of the weapons there, but I shoot a good bit with my Mk 1, less with my Bersa, and have been since I was in my teens, so there was no real novelty in shooting anything there. I had an FFL from 1982-1991, so I shot just about everything from 1911s to
> Dirty Harry guns. Range safety was another important thing that I saw taught. For many it was their first time at a range, and the range etiquette taught on that subject was real important. Oh, the class began at 5:30 and was over at 9:15. The instructors advised, pleaded, emphesized the important of practice. You folks should have seen the shakey hands... trigger snatching... etc. I think the instructors did a fine job of taking these people who were ignorant aside and giving advice, and technique instruction. Tony told them that they needed to practice at least once a month. Any other questions?


 Thanks...That was the first informative post I have seen on one of the classes...(other than Ron's). When I was working on getting my permit, I took Ron's 4 hour course.....It was about $100 more than the one you described......I Thought I got a good deal, and now I know I did. Ron provides the ammo for the class, and I think I burned through $60+ worth of ammo by the end of the class (200 rounds of 9mm + several revolver calibers+Shotgun+countless .22 rounds put through the Glock conversions.) Ron's .22 conversions are purposely poor performers...and jam every few shots. This forced me to learn to clear jams and correct problems quickly....something someone that relies on an auto loading pistol should know. I also was able to try out the myriad of firearms Ron has on hand, including his personal carry ....the Kahr p380. This was valuable experience to someone who had NOT been around handguns, and needed the one on one training to hammer out the bad habits before they got engrained. In the end I went home TIRED....sore arms and trigger finger....but I had a great base, and knew what I needed to practice, and what is SHOULD look like....I Don't think most people will ever take a second class and I just wish that When I urged people to consider something besides the basic , cheapest class, that they understood what they are missing out on.
Sounds like YOU already had a good background so you may have already been exposed to a lot of the stuff in a more expensive class. Thanks again for the info...I think it would help a lot if people could look at what they were getting in one class vs another instead of just $80 vs $180.


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