# ffl transfer fee and sales tax from buds guns



## rhillcity

Hi everyone I ordered a rifle from buds guns and am having it sent to ammunition sales here in Pensacola. I let the owner know and he said transfer would be 26.50 only unless it came with an invoice .....to which he said by Florida law he would have to collect 7.5% sales tax....is that correct and why would he collect sales tax on a rifle that another company sold....I was under the impression he was just the transferring dealer and only a transfer fee was due...any insight would be greatly appreciated


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## scubapro

I had the proprietor of Ammunition Sales tell me the same thing -- so I chose NOT to use him as a receiving dealer...

I've used Ubers, Baywatch, and USA Performance -- never have they collected sale tax.


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## rhillcity

Thanks scuba do you know if that is legal to collect sales tax on a rifle you did not sell? Also instead of 25 for transfer and call he is charging 26.50 I am even paying tax on that which I can deal with but only because he is a Florida business


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## Mac the Knife

*Tax*

Ask him if he will give you a copy of the tax receipt so you can send it in to the Escambia tax collector to verify that he sends it in . Ill Bet you its going in his pocket as a Tip.

Call the Tax office and ask them about it .


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## rhillcity

Good idea mac I am going to try and see if I can have it sent to another Ffl. It is even worse because the tax fee never came up until he got confirmation it was being shipped to him


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## bigbulls

The reason he is telling you this is if it is *invoiced* then money would be owed on the item and he would have to collect that money before transferring the firearm to you. I suspect that he has, in the past, had to collect that money and pay the seller on behalf of the buyer before the transfer could take place. 

If you fell into this scenario, since you would be paying a Florida business the balance due in Florida he would be required to collect sales tax on that balance. As long as it is paid in full before it is shipped you would have nothing to worry about.


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## scubapro

Just ask Buds Gun Shop to either email you the invoice/receipt -- or mail it seperately to your home address, and not include it with the firearm. All Bud's should send with the firearm is a packing slip -- and that IS NOT an invoice.

If the guy at Ammunition Sales gives you grief -- don't use him again!


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## Dixie

rhillcity

I got my FFL in Dec. I had heard conflicting reports on the Tax on a transfer so I called the county office direct. 

Services are not taxable.

I do my transfers for $20 out the door. Unless your MIL/LE/FD then it's $15.


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## SAWMAN

*Great !!*

Dixie, that is good to know sir. May I ask where you are located ?? If you do RETIRED Mil for $15 will gladly pass the word around. --- SAWMAN


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## Dixie

I'm in Northern Milton near the 87/89 intersection.

Retired Mil $15. Thank you for your service.

I've got a post in the networking section.

Little Jack's Guns. Any word of mouth would be appreciated.


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## scubapro

$15 sounds great to me! Please send me your contact info via PM -- I have a pistol that I will need to ship from GA on Friday.


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## libbey

I use interstate pawn on Olive road for my gun transfers from Buds gun - never any problem or tax, $25.00 out the door.


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## Gravity3694

I've used Ammunition Sales for many transfers and have a good working relationship with him. I can assure you that he's just trying to follow FL tax law. He's let me off on one gun I transferred because he couldn't read the receipt. I told him I would file a DR15MO, which is paying the sales tax myself directly to the state and he said he's good with that. Of course I never filed it though. I will avoid him for big ticket items were I'm unsure if I can avoid an invoice being sent with the gun. The last item I did was a $50 stripped PSA lower which sales tax was charged on the gun. Technically all dealers are supposed to charge sales tax, but they just look the other way for you.

$15 transfers is awesome! Put your contact info here.


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## Dixie

Gravity,

I have not gotten deep into the FL tax code, I'm looking for clarification here so if you have different sources/info I would like to know. 

From the Department of Revenue website

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/sales_tax.html

The following is how I understand the Sales and Use Tax. I may be mistaken.

Under the general section, (I realize it is a 'general' section and does not have all the details of the entire FL tax code) I can't find where it says you need to collect tax on a service. A 'transfer' is a service. No tax.

If you buy something from out of state YOU are required to pay a 'use' tax. It is not the job of the FFL to collect the 'use' tax. I also do not read it as, the person doing the transfer is required to collect 'use' tax for items purchased outside of FL. 

So unless an FFL has some situation where he has to receive money for the item being transferred(goods), there is no taxable transaction with just a transfer(service).

If I am incorrect please let me know.


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## Gravity3694

Here's a page from FL Dept Revenue on use tax.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/consumer.html


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## scubapro

I think the Dept of Revenue folks are going to try anyway they can to get a hold of some cash...

They'll tell the dealer it is his responsibility to collect the tax if something is shipped to him with an invoice -- even if he isn't paying the invoice himself.

Likewise, they tell us consumers that WE are responsible for paying the tax directly to them for anything we buy out of state, through the internet, or mail order if we could have bought it inside Florida where sales tax would have been applied... Yeah, right -- good luck with that one I say!

I always chuckle when the "tax lady" comes around to the tables at the gun show -- giving the tax forms to the private sellers, telling them in the most serious voice that she can that they will have to record and collect sales tax for anything they sell at the show... If they had the manpower to do so -- they surely try to hit up every garage sales and flea market within the boundaries of the state!

It may not be the spirit of the law -- or the right thing to do -- but if I can figure out a way NOT to pay a tax....I will try to do so... I don't want any more of my money than absolutely necessary going to EBTcards, WIC coupons, Medicaid, public housing, "free" govt sponsored cell phones, etc.


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## kaferhaus

> It may not be the spirit of the law -- or the right thing to do -- but if I can figure out a way NOT to pay a tax....I will try to do so... I don't want any more of my money than absolutely necessary going to EBTcards, WIC coupons, Medicaid, public housing, "free" govt sponsored cell phones, etc.


Amen Brother

I set up at the Robertsdale show awhile back. Got a letter in the mail from the Baldwin County Revenue dept with a tax return in it.

Sales? What sales? Jeez, I didn't sell nuttin.....

And never ever let a online gunshop send a invoice OR receipt with the gun. Buds always sends me the receipt in the mail.

And I'd never do business with a "dealer" who tells me he's gonna collect sales tax on anything he didn't sell me..... that money is going straight into his pocket.


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## Dixie

The link to the 'use' tax still does not indicate that a retailer would have to collect tax on goods already paid for.

I still read that as the INDIVIDUAL is responsible for paying the tax. 

_"If an out-of-state seller fails to collect sales tax, it is *your* responsibility to comply with Florida law. You must submit payment *directly to the Florida Department of Revenue*."_
_quote from the above link, emphasis added is mine._

Why is a RETAILER taking it upon himself to collect a tax he's not required to?


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## Gravity3694

Dixie said:


> The link to the 'use' tax still does not indicate that a retailer would have to collect tax on goods already paid for.
> 
> I still read that as the INDIVIDUAL is responsible for paying the tax.
> 
> _"If an out-of-state seller fails to collect sales tax, it is *your* responsibility to comply with Florida law. You must submit payment *directly to the Florida Department of Revenue*."_
> _quote from the above link, emphasis added is mine._
> 
> Why is a RETAILER taking it upon himself to collect a tax he's not required to?


I'm sure that when they wrote that they were not cognizant of the unique problems of purchasing a firearm and having to use an FFL as an intermediary. The above quote just assumes that one is buying something and having it shipped directly to them. I'm just going to assume that revenue agents have been pressuring FFL dealers to charge the tax to their customers.


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## Dixie

If there is pressure from revenue agents what are they using as justifcation to collect the tax?


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## Gravity3694

Dixie said:


> If there is pressure from revenue agents what are they using as justifcation to collect the tax?


Probably threat of fines and or shutdown for not complying. It's somewhat hard to prove though since only the dealer and the purchaser see the invoice. Additionally, they can't go into the bound books since those have special protections that only bonifide law enforcement investigations can go into.

The justification comes out of FL statutory and administrative law in FL. I don't know how much more clearer I can be with this.

https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?title=SALES%20AND%20USE%20TAX&ID=12A-1.0161


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## Dixie

I'm not asking HOW they threaten retailers. 

I'm asking what is the JUSTIFICATION of their threats.

You're saying "It's the law." But you can't show me where it's written down.

You're not being clear. You provided a link that does not back up your statement then provided another link that discusses taxable services which does not pertain to transfers.

The following is more appropriate to our discussion

https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?title=SALES AND USE TAX&ID=12A-1.091

Paragraph 5 sounds like it addresses the issue but you're not actually paying an FFL for the merchandise.

I understand that their is a sales and use tax. I understand that it should be paid. My question, again, is where does it say that a dealer is required to collect use tax for the transfer of a firearm?

If you'd rather we can do this over PM.


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## Gravity3694

Dixie said:


> I'm not asking HOW they threaten retailers.
> 
> I'm asking what is the JUSTIFICATION of their threats.
> 
> You're saying "It's the law." But you can't show me where it's written down.
> 
> You're not being clear. You provided a link that does not back up your statement then provided another link that discusses taxable services which does not pertain to transfers.
> 
> The following is more appropriate to our discussion
> 
> https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?title=SALES AND USE TAX&ID=12A-1.091
> 
> Paragraph 5 sounds like it addresses the issue but you're not actually paying an FFL for the merchandise.
> 
> I understand that their is a sales and use tax. I understand that it should be paid. My question, again, is where does it say that a dealer is required to collect use tax for the transfer of a firearm?
> 
> If you'd rather we can do this over PM.


212.06 G
212.07
212.08

Also all the statutes are already linked in my previous post. Those administrative rules derive their power from FL statutes. I'm too tired to read all those statutes in depth and to link them since they are already linked.


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## Dixie

If you're too tired to read them in depth, how do you know what they say?

Reading through 212.06 it would seem that tax is collected any time a SALE is made through a dealer. 

For a transfer the sale is already done the FFL is providing a non taxable SERVICE.

I may give the tax office a call on Monday to see what they think.


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## Outside9

I was recently told by a dealer, will not call names that some dealers (they were one) are going to stop receiving guns for Buds and one other on-line dealer I can't recall. I never really thought about it but I assume they are tired of loosing business to the on-line sites.


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## CSA

I have read this thread and have found it interesting, I have a question how do they know that the transfer was not for a used gun from an individule that used them to transfer it to your FFL, which would not require tax, if I understand the law correctly.


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## CSA

Outside9 said:


> I was recently told by a dealer, will not call names that some dealers (they were one) are going to stop receiving guns for Buds and one other on-line dealer I can't recall. I never really thought about it but I assume they are tired of loosing business to the on-line sites.


Not to derail this thread but
That's why I will spend a little extra plus tax to buy local. Every shop that I have dealt with has always been fair on prices and I would rather keep the local business here, I even try not to buy my guns from big chain stores but sometimes I have done it on impulse.


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## Dixie

CSA,

I respect keeping your business local. If I had a good working relationship witha local dealer that could get what I was looking for in a timely manner I would have no problem spending a little bit more.

Somre reasons that I got my FFL were because local shops didn't have what I was looking for or were charging significantly ($100-$150 before tax) more than I would have to pay on the internet.

The internet prices are hard to beat and that's another reason I will probably not keep a lot of stock on hand.


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## Gravity3694

Dixie said:


> If you're too tired to read them in depth, how do you know what they say?
> 
> Reading through 212.06 it would seem that tax is collected any time a SALE is made through a dealer.
> 
> For a transfer the sale is already done the FFL is providing a non taxable SERVICE.
> 
> I may give the tax office a call on Monday to see what they think.


I just skimmed them. Tax code is very very long. I just decided to skim and lay out the information. I'd rather not argue anymore to make this thread look anymore ugly or divisive.


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## Dixie

Just got off the phone with the FL Tax help line. 1 800 352 3676, press 1 for eng, 2 for general info, 2 for info, 2 for any other tax, wait for agent. Talked to a Mr. Marshall Martin.

Transfers: Not Taxable

FDLE check: Not Taxable

Tax on items shipped from out of state: Taxable *BUT NOT BY THE PERSON DOING THE TRANSFER*. As discussed earlier, it falls on the individual to pay the USE tax.

If someone is charging you tax on the value of the transferred item and they have *not* collected any money for that *item*..... tell them to pound sand.

Hope this helps


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## bama99

As said before, not to derail this thread, but *OUTCAST* has prices equal to or better than Bud's and a great website as well. They can get you almost anything in a few days. When is the last time Buds sponsored local fishing tournaments, had live bait for you, gave free fishing seminars, or put on a great sale and grilled out for a couple thousand people whether they made or purchase or not?


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## 69Viking

Outside9 said:


> I was recently told by a dealer, will not call names that some dealers (they were one) are going to stop receiving guns for Buds and one other on-line dealer I can't recall. I never really thought about it but I assume they are tired of loosing business to the on-line sites.


That's retarded, individuals will just find another FFL to make their transfer. Why not collect the $25 for the 15 minutes it takes to register someone's internet purchase, amounts to $100 an hour when you think about it, that's pretty good money for a sale you didn't make. 

As far as a business collecting tax on something you paid for online I think that business needs to be referred to the tax authorities because I'd be willing to bet they aren't sending that money off the state when the state has no record of them making a sale.


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## BILL_MONEY

Is there a FFL dealer over here in baldwin that does transfers ???? i need to find one i can use over here.....


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## scubapro

I might add that the guy at Ammunition Sales said that I couldn't legally ship a firearm directly to an individual within the same state too -- which is completely incorrect.


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## kaferhaus

BILL_MONEY said:


> Is there a FFL dealer over here in baldwin that does transfers ???? i need to find one i can use over here.....


Campbells hardware in Robertsdale and goldmine pawn in daphne, also styx river shooting center..


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## BILL_MONEY

was hoping some one knew of someone closer.... the Goldmine is GREAT :thumbup:.... have had great experience with them and would drive there before most any other place..... there is the place in foley but cant remeber the name rite know


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## kaferhaus

Send Garbo a PM, he has a home in Gulf Shores and I'm sure he knows every gun shop within 100 miles of there....LOL


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## 69Viking

FYI - If you're looking for a good FFL in the Fort Walton Beach area Patriot Arms is great to deal with and their transfer fee and gun registration is $25 out the door, no tax charged. It's $20 for Active Duty\Retired Military and Law Enforcement. 

http://www.patriotarmsfwb.com/


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## rhillcity

As said rifle purchase in the begining of the thread when it was delivered to the Ffl he attempted to charge tax as if he was selling his merchandise. My girlfriend actually bought the rifle and it was her first purchase. Luckily my better half is no dummy She had to argue about how the use tax was her responsibility not his to which he said it would leave him in a bind if tax auditor came around. 
In my opinion I think this guy was just trying to line his pockets with our hard earned money. Also the transfer was 26.50????? It was a shady deal and I will not be repeating the same mistake with this company. I suggest everyone else do the same


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## scubapro

The Florida Dept of Revenue Office is over there near Town & County Plaza... turn his butt in and let them go do an audit to see if all "tax" collected has been truly paid to the State, and not added to his profit margin.


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## capt mike

*FFL Baldwin County*

Gulf Pawn north Foley on Highway 59. # 251-7296.


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## capt mike

*FFL dealer*

sorry 251 970-7296!


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## Az-Vic

Ive heard that question too, can firearms be mailed to an individual within the same state, the correct legal answer is yes, you/they can. In fact, you can mail a firearm from here to Arizona if you want(I know, because I live there), or from Arizona to here, as long as your mailing it to yourself.
Ive heard a few fellas tell me their local postmasters refuse to mail the firearm, which they cannot legally do. In fact, they have no right to even know what your shipping, but will sometimes ask. In that case my answer is precision perforation tool, or "machine parts". Lots of ambiguities run amok in our gun world....damned shame


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## Dixie

Link the ATF FAQs about non-FFLs and shipping. Questions 7, 8 and 9.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

USPS 'mailability' of firearms

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

HTH


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## RRlocoENGR

Dixie said:


> rhillcity
> 
> I got my FFL in Dec. I had heard conflicting reports on the Tax on a transfer so I called the county office direct.
> 
> Services are not taxable.
> 
> I do my transfers for $20 out the door. Unless your MIL/LE/FD then it's $15.


That is a great service and price that you provide Dixie. I wish I lived closer to make it worth my while. The FFL I have been using here in Pensacola charges $20 transfer fee to which he adds sales tax, plus $5 for the background check which has no sales tax. Total is $26.50.

The cost of gasoline keeps me from visiting you, but thanks for good rates and honest service. Also thanks for the discounts for military and LE!

:thumbup:


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## JonInGB

*Great FFL Experience*

I recently completed an FFL transaction with Dixie. Great experience, great communication, couldn't ask for better. Jon


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## RRlocoENGR

*Bud's Gun Shop invoices*



scubapro said:


> Just ask Buds Gun Shop to either email you the invoice/receipt -- or mail it seperately to your home address, and not include it with the firearm. All Bud's should send with the firearm is a packing slip -- and that IS NOT an invoice.
> 
> If the guy at Ammunition Sales gives you grief -- don't use him again!



I called and spoke with Bud's about this. I have purchased many firearms from them and all they included was a shipping paper, with no purchase price listed. The last one I bought had a receipt included that showed my purchase price. They are telling me that they have had to go to this method because some states require sales tax to be collected, and that it is just easier for them to now always put this receipt in the shipment to the FFL.

I would say this is just a receipt and not an invoice. Obviously Ammunition Sales thinks otherwise. I will be using another FFL for sure since I buy a lot of my guns from Bud's.

:notworthy:


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## RRlocoENGR

It is not right for a FFL to charge sales tax on a purchase you made from another company. I prefer to do the voluntary sales tax every quarter on internet purchases that Florida has set up. If you pay your sales tax using the voluntary method you only pay 6% instead of 7.5%.


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## maizeandblue

+1 for Dixie aka Lil Jacks Guns. Had two lowers sent to him for transfer.


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## Dixie

Happy to help.


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## kaferhaus

Whoever is collecting sales tax on guns they didn't sell are simply pocketing the "tax" as additional profit..


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