# 1967 33hp Johnson



## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

As you may know, my outboard had a 10 hour saltwater soak over Saturday night into SUnday morning. Once I got it back to the house, I ran freshwater over and through EVERYTHING, then used an entire can of corrosion inhibitor and half a bottle of Marvel Mystery oil trying to prevent any damage to the motor and slowly pull the cord to move the pistons and get everything to circulate through the motor. That night I started the engine. It ran for about 10-15 seconds then died. It was billowing smoke as it ran (probably from all the oil). I couldnt start it again so I just added more oil and corrosion inhibitor to it. The next night I took the carbuerator off and thoroughly cleaned it, and hand turned the motor a few times. Tuesday I bought a new starter and new plugs and flushed the motor out with gas and oil. Today I installed everything on it, got some fresh gas, and tried to start it. With the first attempt it didnt start. I sprayed some starter fluid into it and tried again. This time it fired up (smoky as hell) but died after 10-15 seconds. I took out the plugs, they looked alright but I wiped them off anyway. Now it wont start. Everythig seems to move alright, it just wont run.

ANY SUGGESTIONS???


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

P.S. With the plugs out, everthing is lose and the motor pulls just fine. WIth the plugs it it is almost to tight to pull the rope to start it


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Right now as it stands the motor WILL start with starter fluid, but dies right away everytime. Sounded to me like maybe gas isnt getting where it needs to be. What do you think? could it be water in the gas?


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

bump


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## pb&jellyfish (May 1, 2008)

I'm not sure what the protocol is on a motor that has been completely submerged, but I know there are people here that can give some advice. In the meantime, I would't keep using starter fluid to crank it. Motors tend to stop liking gas to get them started once you start using starter fluid. Try to start it with some fuel/oil mix in a spray bottle.


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## pb&jellyfish (May 1, 2008)

Oh, and keeping those parts moving like you have been is a good idea.


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

bump


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

If it will start with starting fluid it is definitely a fuel problem (could bea combination of a weak spark, fuel and or compression). Aengine with a weak spark, and/or low compression will and can start with starting fluid and not a gas/oil mixture.As mentioned don't try to run it too much using starting fluid....you will wash the cylinder walls and rings out. That stuff cleans the oil out of the cylinders.

Eliminate the compression first.


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## wld1985 (Oct 2, 2007)

Yup, as ron said.. That starting fluid will wash the rings and walls right out and that outboard will not be good.. I usually use Carb. cleaner cause it's not as hard and will still start with carb. cleaner.. You said when the plugs are in, it is harder to start. There maybe some water inside the motor still and you have'nt gotten it all out.. Turn the motor over a few good times with the plugs out of the motor and see if any water comes out..

edit.. turn the motor over for about 8-10secs, while the plugs are out..


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

I have 110 in one chamber and 120 in the other. I was using carb cleaning but then switched to starting fluid. I didnt know the difference. Definetly going to go back to carb cleaner. Um... the plugs are brand new and have the same gap as the other ones......Where would I find the specs for the motor so I know what the plugs SHOULD be gapped at? And wld1985, I am sure that all the water is out now. A couple days ago I did jut what you said, and took the plugs out and pull the motor many times to make sure nothing was there. I took the carb apart again today and found a lot of salt deposits in it. I clean it all out.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *roofordie (7/31/2009)*I have 110 in one chamber and 120 in the other. I was using carb cleaning but then switched to starting fluid. I didnt know the difference. Definetly going to go back to carb cleaner. Um... the plugs are brand new and have the same gap as the other ones......Where would I find the specs for the motor so I know what the plugs SHOULD be gapped at?


Enjoy the read........

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/Submerged_outboard.htm


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

Check to see if you bent a rod..This will *only* happen if the engine was running at the time it got deep 6'ed.

Remove plugs..slide a long handle Phillips screwdriver into the hole. Rotate crankshaft till the piston comes up to it's highest position, you may have to rock the flywheel back and forth to find the spot. Then to the lowest making a mark on the screwdriver at the up and down position. You can use a small piece of tape. Repeat on the next cylinder. It doesn't make any difference what reference point you use as long as the point is the same for both up positions and the reference the same for the down position. Measure one..remove tape and do the other...measurements should be *EXACTLY* the same.

The fact that it will turn over easy with the plugs out and won't with the plugs in kind of struck a nerve with me.


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## Shiznik (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm hoping you can revive your outboard and get your boat back out on the water! Sounds like you are going about it the right way, you've got some pretty good intel advising you. Good luck and hope it works out!


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## bayrat (Jun 5, 2008)

Did you pump the bulb when you had the carb off, there is a screen in the fuel pump that will not let water pass, and if it is full off water it won't let gas pass. Hope you get going.


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

> *bayrat (8/2/2009)*Did you pump the bulb when you had the carb off, there is a screen in the fuel pump that will not let water pass, and if it is full off water it won't let gas pass. Hope you get going.


Yes, I did. I used the fuel line to pump gas/oil into the cylinders for the few days when I was trying to protect the motor from the salt water


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

The ngine wasnt running when it went down, however, at the point when I tried ging and dummy wouldnt get back in the boat it DID cut off on me. I was hoping it wasnt because the motor hit the water, but maybe. Im gonna go out and check it RIGHT NOW


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Should I be able to blow in the gas intake nozzle on the carbeurator? When I blow, It does not go through. Clogged or always like that?


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *roofordie (8/3/2009)*Should I be able to blow in the gas intake nozzle on the carbeurator? When I blow, It does not go through. *Clogged or always like that*?


Most likely a restriction...remove the bowl drain or the bowl and try. The needle may be stuck in the seat, carb full of fuel or some other restriction. If at this point you can't blow threw, remove carb and clean again. A torch tip cleaner makes for a very nice passage tool cleaner.


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

I soaked it for 2 days in carb cleaner at work, and I STILL cant blow through it. The hole on the bottom bowl is clear, as is the one going from the inside of the carb into the bowl, but the one where my fuel line is hooked up is definetly NOT clear. I tried to blow some air through it at work, but that didnt work. I was wondering if you are suppose to be able to easily blow through it or not?

Still trying to find the problem. Tore the motor down to the pistons today. They look fine, I check where they come to ion the cylinder and they were EXACTLY the same, so no problem there.....I still havent found anyone to diagnose it at a price I can afford (which is low)


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

I did notice that on the bottom the plug gap keeps getting closed. MAybe I should add another washer to it??


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

If you can't blow through the fuel line fitting going into the carb when the float is in the down position you have a blockage. Have you taken the needle and seat out?


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *roofordie (8/6/2009)*I did notice that on the bottom the plug gap keeps getting closed. MAybe I should add another washer to it??


You talking about the spark plug??? Either one of two reasons for this and from what you say *(I check where they come to ion the cylinder and they were EXACTLY the same, so* *no problem there)* .....you eliminated one...now..wrong plug. Assuming you put the head gasket back on.

How did you determine that both pistons traveled the exact same distance to each other?


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

> *Tuna Man (8/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *roofordie (8/6/2009)*I did notice that on the bottom the plug gap keeps getting closed. MAybe I should add another washer to it??
> ...




I determined it by removing the spark plugs and putting the ratchet handle inside the cylinder, then hand turning it until the piston was at TDC and mark the spot on the ratchet handle with a fine tip sharpie. Then I repeated it on the other cylinder. Now that I have removed the back half of the motor I checked the pistons AGAIN by cranking one to TDC and placing a tuckpointing trowel on it and marking the distance from the piston to the outside of the cylinder, then repeated on the next one.

I just put new plugs in it, but I noticed it on the last plug too, and figured that it must have happened ffrom me dropping the plug. This time I put the plug on top of the piston and found that the angle of the "L" on the plug matches the pitch of te piston head. How would my piston become longer??

And the head gasket WAS on te last time I turned the motor over. I just took it apart today to inspect everything and try to locate my problem. While I was reinstalling things is when I notcies the spark plug gap was completely closed. 

It IS possible that perhaps I DID drop the first one and that this new plug is the wrong size, however, when I went to Oreillys I gave them one of the old plugs to make sure I got the right one, and if the bottom one is not the right size, the top one shouldn't be either. It just doesnt make any damn sense to me.

Where would I go to find what the plug gaps are suppose to be?


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Tuna Man, the "up" or Top Dead Center is the same, however, the "down" has almost 1/4" difference, with the bottom piston not going down as far as the top.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

Are they the same pistons? Unless I'm missing something, its virtually impossible for a piston to be at TDC and match the second at TDC, and be at BDC and not match the other...Please..someone here dispute this. Since the pistons are not at the same spots..remove the head, rotate one piston to TDC and take astraight edgeof some sort..measure from bottom of straight edge and top of the piston, and do the same to the other..repeat at BDC.


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Tuna, that is exactly what I just did before posting. Confuses the hell outta me


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *roofordie (8/6/2009)*Tuna, that is exactly what I just did before posting. Confuses the hell outta me


:banghead:banghead:banghead ...FI....I have a 28 with a 33hp carb for $300.00


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Tuna, you wanna sell me a motor?? Whats with the little laughing guy?? Is your motor a Johnson? What year? DEFINETLY interested. PM me som info on it. I found that my motor *<U>wasnt getting any gas,</U>* like I thought*<U>.</U>* There is a little pin/valve below the float that when the carb bowl is full, the float rises and the arm pushes this little pin/valve closed. I found that this "valve" was frozen, so I pulled it out and cleaned all the crap off of it. NOW my motor gets gas, but I have to wait for the battery to charge. Im gonna try it in the morning, but I notcied a few crappy seals in the carb, so Im gonna have to rebuild it. 

Gimme a break now, this is my first boat and Ive only had it maybe 6 weeks. When I bought it I had NO knowledge of outboards, but the past month and a half has been a crash course for me.


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## Skippy (Sep 18, 2008)

> *roofordie (8/6/2009)*Tuna, you wanna sell me a motor?? Whats with the little laughing guy?? Is your motor a Johnson? What year? DEFINETLY interested. PM me som info on it. I found that my motor *<U>wasnt getting any gas,</U>* like I thought*<U>.</U>* There is a little pin/valve below the float that when the carb bowl is full, the float rises and the arm pushes this little pin/valve closed. I found that this "valve" was frozen, so I pulled it out and cleaned all the crap off of it. NOW my motor gets gas, but I have to wait for the battery to charge. Im gonna try it in the morning, but I notcied a few crappy seals in the carb, so Im gonna have to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Gimme a break now, this is my first boat and Ive only had it maybe 6 weeks. When I bought it I had NO knowledge of outboards, but the past month and a half has been a crash course for me.




I have a lot of experience on these older outboards and carbs, may have a rebuild kit in the garage somewhere, call me, I should be able to get you back in the water so you can get those poles wet.



Skippy


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Thanks skippy, Ill call you tomorrow. If your roof has any leaks, I can fix em for you. I know all about roofs, not so much about outboards


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *roofordie (8/6/2009)*Tuna, you wanna sell me a motor?? Whats with the little laughing guy?? Is your motor a Johnson? What year? DEFINETLY interested. PM me som info on it. I found that my motor *<U>wasnt getting any gas,</U>* like I thought*<U>.</U>* *There is a little pin/valve below the float that when the carb bowl is full, the float rises* *and the arm pushes this little pin/valve closed.* I found that this "valve" was frozen, so I pulled it out and cleaned all the crap off of it. NOW my motor gets gas, but I have to wait for the battery to charge. Im gonna try it in the morning, but I notcied a few crappy seals in the carb, so Im gonna have to rebuild it.
> 
> Gimme a break now, this is my first boat and Ive only had it maybe 6 weeks. When I bought it I had NO knowledge of outboards, but the past month and a half has been a crash course for me.


That is what is called a needle and seat........ Actually it's above the float..Right? Hold the carb as it would be mounted on the engine. The float drops, gas flows in, float rises, needle seats into seat and cuts off fuel flow.



> *Tuna Man (8/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *roofordie (8/3/2009)*Should I be able to blow in the gas intake nozzle on the carbeurator? When I blow, It does not go through. *Clogged or always like that*?
> ...


As far as the laughing man...I thought it was being funny with all the help I've been trying to give and racking my brain as to what the problem might be...and here I go advertising a engine to cure your problem...<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>28HP pull start/tiller Evinrude


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## Brandy (Sep 28, 2007)

I bet its gonna run good. A motor that old may have been under before. You did all the right things. I would run good quality oil in the gas if she seems like shes gonna be ok. I think you must have had the wrong plugs in it to close the gaps. If you just matched the plugs to the others they may have been wrong when you bought it.

Im no mechanic but if you need A hand next week I can come by and help you tinker with it. Sometimes you just miss somethings that A set of fresh eyes can catch right off. Or I can bring some beer , a pistol and we can give it some lead.


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

Brandy, I have some beer and a pistol, and have been close to that a few times. I live in Milton, how close is that to you? If it still doesnt go after thi weekend, Ill PM you


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

> *Tuna Man (8/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *roofordie (8/6/2009)*Tuna, you wanna sell me a motor?? Whats with the little laughing guy?? Is your motor a Johnson? What year? DEFINETLY interested. PM me som info on it. I found that my motor *<U>wasnt getting any gas,</U>* like I thought*<U>.</U>* *There is a little pin/valve below the float that when the carb bowl is full, the float rises* *and the arm pushes this little pin/valve closed.* I found that this "valve" was frozen, so I pulled it out and cleaned all the crap off of it. NOW my motor gets gas, but I have to wait for the battery to charge. Im gonna try it in the morning, but I notcied a few crappy seals in the carb, so Im gonna have to rebuild it.
> ...


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>Thats exactly what I found out last night Tuna. Thats also how I took the laughing guy. Funny funny, but I may be interested


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## roofordie (Sep 24, 2008)

BOAT FIXED!!!!! BOAT FIXED!!!!! It just needed a carb rebuild. It was not getting gas, I rebuilt the carb, started right up!!


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## Brandy (Sep 28, 2007)

You think it will pull A skier ?


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