# Are our endangered red snapper for sale?



## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

http://www.thedestinlog.com/outdoors/rodeo-runs-red-fishing-tournament-gets-snapper-bonus-1.19112

I think it's nice that the Rodeo gets them, but what about the rest of the Gulf fishermen? Are we out of luck (no pun intended) just because we don't have the money or want to pay to join the rodeo?

Sea-r-cy


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes, they are for sale... They have always been for sale. Thats why the "endangered" red snapper is still commercially fished and commercially sold, because the price is right in someones pocket. While this doesn't surprise me, it just goes to show that much more how crooked this system is. What are they going to research in this destin tournament that they could not research during the regular snapper season?


----------



## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Its not about the research,thats just a smoke screen by FWC,Its all about the fish tags!Stand by,the day is coming when you will have to have tags just like you have to have bait!!They will regulate the fishery till it will be catch and release ONLY!!!


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

706Z said:


> They will regulate the fishery till it will be catch and release ONLY!!!


Just FYI, the gov't has already made public statements that ALL catch and release is their goal...


----------



## johnboatjosh (May 19, 2008)

This whole thing is disgusting.


----------



## 706Z (Mar 30, 2011)

Its all about the MONEY!


----------



## gameaholic (Oct 1, 2007)

Absolutely disgusting.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

If its about research why are they charging money to have a chance to win the tags? Why wouldn't they just give the tags away?


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> If its about research why are they charging money to have a chance to win the tags? Why wouldn't they just give the tags away?


No shit. The AL Rodeo conducted research for years and didn't charge per species for it.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

It also doesn't take a lot of time or research to figure out which charter boats fish this tournament and have a big financial interest in it. For those of you new to the game the SOS boats are deep into this tournament. The same charter boats that are trying to steal the recreational fishermans red snapper from them for the own financial gain. After all Gary Jarvis, Charter Boat Captain from Destin started this entire SOS group who is trying to steal the recreational fishermans snapper...


----------



## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

Smoke and mirrors kind of like the Japanese harvesting whales in the name of research when whale meat is highly prized and sold for big bucks in Japan. For people not to be able to catch and keep red snapper here is total B.S.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

I know this tournament is a long standing tradition for a lot of anglers, but anyone who fishes it is basically supporting the SOS stealing the recreational anglers snapper.... Want to make an easy point? Don't fish or support this tournament


----------



## jjam (Dec 9, 2007)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> If its about research why are they charging money to have a chance to win the tags? Why wouldn't they just give the tags away?



Eller said, “It will also let us explore how well the fish tags are used among the fishermen.” 

There's the "research", not on snapper but on fishermen buying / using tags to catch snapper.

Jimmy


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

heck last weekend we caught about 30 of the friggin things in a few hours Wht kind of "Research" are they looking for? Oh, the ones I caught may not have been red snapper......


----------



## MikeG (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm not fishing it. Sounds like BS


----------



## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

I heard that the TAC came in about a half million pounds short of the total. When are they going to let us catch that 500,000 lb? My guess, never.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Burnt Drag said:


> I heard that the TAC came in about a half million pounds short of the total. When are they going to let us catch that 500,000 lb? My guess, never.


For $40 a raffle ticket you can get a shot and possibly being allowed to catch 4 snapper if your tickets gets drawn AND you pay to enter the Destin Fishing Rodeo... If not you are out of luck...


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

jjam said:


> Eller said, “It will also let us explore how well the fish tags are used among the fishermen.”
> 
> There's the "research", not on snapper but on fishermen buying / using tags to catch snapper.
> 
> ...


Yes sir. They want to see if "we" will pay for tags that give you 
the " privilege" to harvest a snapper.


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> Yes sir. They want to see if "we" will pay for tags that give you
> the " privilege" to harvest a snapper.


Exactly.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> Yes sir. They want to see if "we" will pay for tags that give you
> the " privilege" to harvest a snapper.


You and I cannot justify $10 per snapper (which is what they are charging) but the charter boats can if they just add it into the charter price its no big deal.... Does anyone else see where this is going??? Walk on Charter $125 per person with No Red Snapper Today... Walk On Charter Next season with two snapper per angler $145 per person.... Tourist won't ever notice the price change, all they will see is that they are able to keep Red Snapper....


----------



## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> You and I cannot justify $10 per snapper (which is what they are charging) but the charter boats can if they just add it into the charter price its no big deal.... Does anyone else see where this is going??? Walk on Charter $125 per person with No Red Snapper Today... Walk On Charter Next season with two snapper per angler $145 per person.... Tourist won't ever notice the price change, all they will see is that they are able to keep Red Snapper....


Interesting. The problem is that this would work in Destin, but will not work anywhere else. Destin has one of the larger charger fleets in the Gulf and a lot of tourists with money, especially proportionally with the amount of people that live in the county. I am not sure of Pensacola, but my guess with it being a bigger city the charter fleet is not such a large portion of the catch either. Certainly not east all the way to Tampa. 

You are right they could sell tickets for snapper in Destin in a heart beat, but good luck doing that in Mexico Beach, Appalach, Big Bend, etc. I doubt it would go over in PC and Pensacola would be a toss up IMO. Red Snapper is not enough of the catch from Tampa south that I know of for someone to catch a $10 snapper over everything else out there.

The industry is going to come to a point where the State WAAAAY overprices Red Snapper. There are plenty of fish just as good to eat and just as fun to catch. Honestly, let these guys spend all this cash on Red Snapper. The entire gulf won't become a tag system, it would be impossible and too expensive. Anyone pushing for a tag system is going to just spend a bunch of money to have it fall apart in a couple years.

I could see them selling a $5 snapper "stamp" like a duck stamp and the newish deer stamp Florida now sells.


----------



## SteveFL (Aug 2, 2010)

This ain't about money, it's the 1st open display of catch shares. This is what gov't does, they introduce something in a subtle, seemingly harmless way. Get us associated with the idea and terminology, then slowly move in the regulation while we go about our lives. If history is any teacher, we'll see the word "tags" for snapper in all sorts of publications and conversations going forward.


----------



## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

Total BS!!!


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Use the link below to email your FWC commissioners and tell them how rediculous this is
http://myfwc.com/contact/fwc-staff/senior-staff/commissioners/


----------



## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

Great idea Capt. Jon and thanks for the link. Here is what I sent the FWC:

I am an avid saltwater fisherman, and have been fishing out of Destin for several years. Like most other fishermen in the area, I am aware that there are an abundance of red snapper. 
I'm sure the 400 snapper tags that are going to be "raffled" off during the Destin Rodeo will help make it a better event. 
But, what about the rest of us that don't participate in the Rodeo? Why are a selected few people with money able to keep the snapper that should belong to all licensed fishermen? 
This whole deal stinks worse than a 3 day old fish. This is not right. <"(((((>< 

Sea-r-cy


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Great! Here is a link to the board of directors email for the rodeo...I sent them an email also... http://www.destinfishingrodeo.org/boardofdirectors.html


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/06/red_snapper_tags_available_for.html


----------



## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

Got my reply from the FWC : 

Your message has been received by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and is being forwarded to an employee involved in the issues you bring to light. Please know that your message will be reviewed with your interest in mind. If requested, you should expect a response.


Sea-r-cy


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Sea-r-cy said:


> Got my reply from the FWC :
> 
> Your message has been received by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and is being forwarded to an employee involved in the issues you bring to light. Please know that your message will be reviewed with your interest in mind. If requested, you should expect a response.
> 
> ...


I got the same response, word for word....I am not holding my breath...Phone calls will be in order by wednesday


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

FWC had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You want answers call Roy Crabtree!


----------



## 52fish (Feb 27, 2008)

Buying tags from Enviros and paying for each fish. Obama/Lubchenco's catch share scheme starting this month for Red Snapper in the Gulf of Mexico. Unbelievable!!


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Screw the Destin fishing Industry and everyone in it. What a joke they've made out of recreational fishing.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> You want answers call Roy Crabtree!


Thanks Tom...I just left a message with his secretary, when she asked what it was in reference to and I told her Red Snapper Tags she started to laugh....

Here is Roy Crabtrees phone number 727-824-5301, at least we should all be a pain in his ass this morning and give him a hundred or so phone calls :thumbsup:


----------



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

jjam said:


> Eller said, “It will also let us explore how well the fish tags are used among the fishermen.”
> 
> There's the "research", not on snapper but on fishermen buying / using tags to catch snapper.
> 
> Jimmy


You hit the nail on the head - it is all about DECREASING the number of fishermen who can fish, and this is simply an exercise to see if we are willing to pay for our fish via tags, and if so, how much.

They should be looking at ways to enhance habitat through artificial reefing to INCREASE the biomass of fish instead of continually looking for ways to cut recreational fishermen out of the resource.

They should be looking for ways to increase the data accuracy regarding effort/landings/fishery biomass, but that is the LAST thing they want - better data.

These tags are part of an Exempted Fishing Permit program, much like the Headboat IFQ Pilot Program and the Days At Sea Pilot Program. The idea is to carve of portions of our TAC - in effect Sector Separation WITHOUT calling it such - so that the government controls WHO gets to fish and WHO is prohibited from accessing the resource.




Burnt Drag said:


> I heard that the TAC came in about a half million pounds short of the total. When are they going to let us catch that 500,000 lb? My guess, never.


According to Crabtree and Co., we OVERFISHED our TAC again this year so you can expect next year's season to be even shorter.

Every other indicator out there shows that there has been a DECLINE in offshore fishing participation - everywhere BUT the NMFS offices in St. Pete.

Six years ago according to NMFS records, we fished for red snapper with 194 day seasons, 4 fish limits, each fish weighed about 3.2 pounds, we landed about 4.22 million pounds of fish, or about 1.3 million fish.

Then came the Hijack in 2007 when EDF was successful in "crafting and passing" the changes to the Magnuson.

In 2011, according to NMFS records, our season had been slashed by 75% to a mere 48 days, our limits slashed by 50% to 2 fish/person, but each fish weighed more - 6.4 pounds. Yet, we were still somehow able to catch MORE poundage - 4.5 million pounds with roughly half the number of fish (700,000 fish). The ONLY way this could have happened is if the private recreational anglers caught 4-5 bag limits per season day for every one bag limit caught per season day in 2006.

In PHYSICAL reality, it didn't happen. In VIRTUAL reality, it happened in Crabtree's office only in their computer models.

We need to support Congressional representatives like Steve Southerland and vote Obama out of office next month, or you can expect MUCH more of the same garbage fisheries management in the near future.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Tom ard please call me if you get a chance, I just talked to crabtree 850-393-4524


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> I just talked to crabtree


Capt. Pinney,

if you could share the details of your conversation with Dr. Roy would like to read about it. If not understand.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> Capt. Pinney,
> 
> if you could share the details of your conversation with Dr. Roy would like to read about it. If not understand.


Mark I'm working on the boat right now but when I get home I will do that.. To sum it up typing on my cell phone he put it off on fwc and the other states but I have a lot more info I will give later


----------



## guam_bomb80 (Nov 17, 2010)

I was entertaining the idea of entering the rodeo this year with my family. Not anymore... Just because some people have millions and I only have hundreds of dollars dosent give them the right to keep any species fish more than myself or my wife or kids. All this B.S. is getting out of hand, they put off catch shares just to introduce another form of it with pretty lipstick that seems to look better to uneducated fishermen/women. Is this really what our state/country has become... ?


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

This was all done by FWC, no one else. The rodeo tags at least


----------



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

They would have to arrange for an Exempted Fishing Permit with the Gulf Council wouldn't they in order to retain red snapper out of season?


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

This is word for word what a friend on the rodeo commity sent to me about the tags.


The idea was brought to us (the rodeo) by the fwc and not the other way around. 

People found out that Louisiana and Alabama had been given week long openings on snapper for tournaments they do, so the fwc asked if they would do the same for Florida so they could collect some extra data. As always, the devil is in the details and once we found out how big of a pain in the ass it was gonna be we basically said nevermind, no thanks. The reason we didn't want to fuck with it is because there is basically no way to please everyone and it would be tough to fairly distribute the 400 tags they agreed to give us.

A bunch of fisherman (private and charter) had heard of the idea and were pushing for us to make it happen cause in their eyes being able to keep 4 by catch snapper beats the shit out of zero. So eventually in an effort to please everyone as much as possible we decided to take the tags and distribute them lottery style.

Everyone that wants a chance at the tags throws in 40 bucks (its not much money at all, and its all going to charity at the end of the day so nobody is seeing a profit from it) we will then pull 100 winners at random and they will get 4 tags each. All those names will go back in the hat and there is a separate drawing for some $400 half hitch gift cards and shit like that, so even if you don't get the tags you might get hooked up with something else if you throw in the $40... There isn't any award or prizes or anything at the rodeo for biggest snapper so hopefully it will somewhat deter people from only keeping giant snappers cause that will just give the fwc more incorrect data, and as we know they already have plenty of that.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

This link probably sums it up. Scroll down past Rodeo Sees Red and read second part of post where it starts with Pam Dana.


http://forums.capmel.com/post/FWC-DISCRIMANATES-AGAIN-6038497


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

*Todays talk with Crabtree and FWC*

I talked to several people today regarding this corruption. I spoke with Roy Crabtree for about 30 minutes. Some highlights of the conversation were. The red snapper tag idea during tournaments was brought to the table by Louisiana. The Gulf Council approved it 15-2. After this several other states requested the same grants/exemptions including Florida. According to Crabtree FWC requested this and there were no tournaments willing to deal with the tags except for the Destin Fishing Rodeo. Pam Dana is involved with the Gulf Council and also owns charter business’s in Destin.

On separate notes and while I had crabtree on the phone I asked him about other Red Snapper issues including the fact that commercial fisherman are able to commercially fish for a fish that is considered “over-fished”. His out is that the Magneseum Stevens act clearly says, according to him that the resource will be fairly and equitable shared, including the commercial fisherman. Therefore the law would have to be changed to cut out the commercial fisherman, an entire separate fight. 

I asked him if we can expect Red Snapper tags as a regulation in the future and he said YES. I brought to his attention that the concerns a lot of people share is that at $10 a tag, the private boat angler cannot justify and a lot of times afford to purchase one. He rebuttal was that 4 tags cost $40. At an average of 7lbs, 4 fish would be 28lbs and that would be cheaper than purchasing the snapper at the seafood market. I quickly reminded him of the extra cost of fuel, insurance, tackle, boat payments etc, not to mention that no one fishes because its cheaper, but we do it because we enjoy spending time with our kids and family. He had no rebuttal to that but quickly changed the topic.

The topic was changed to the fact that the federal govt cannot profit off licenses, tags, permits etc, but the state govt can. 

I told him that he has had 17 years of snapper regulation to get it right and if he hasn’t yet then he won’t. He said he expects the stock to be at acceptable levels by 2020. I wouldn’t hold your breath. He did say that there is a good chance that the amount of tags issued to the tournaments this year will more than likely be deducted from the recreational TAC either this season or next.

Crabtree reiterated several times that he did not think the snapper tags would be a good idea for these tournaments. He said he doubts it will happen again next year.

I then contacted FWC who Crabtree says is responsible for this. After several calls I finally talked to the lady who has the tags for the Destin Rodeo sitting on her desk. I asked the lady named Martha, who decided that the tags would be a good idea. She said FWC approached the council and requested them for “research”. 

I asked her what research she intended to do that could not be done during the regular snapper season. She said due to the fact anglers will be required to keep the 1st snapper they catch she hopes to get a lot of 10 inch snapper to look at. I laughed and made several points. One being that there will be no 10 inch snapper brought to the docks. Anyone catching 10 inch snapper in the gulf is trying harder to catch them rather than not too and at $40 a packet anglers are gonna keep the biggest ones they can.

I confirmed with her that FWC has their own boats that they go and catch these 10 inch fish in to do their research and again asked her why they needed to do this during a tournament. She said she wanted anglers to do it to give it a different angle instead of them doing it. I asked her if that was the case why couldn’t the state do a lottery from anglers willing to participate and the anglers could call them upon return to the dock for their research. I got no answer. I asked her who exactly made the motion for the Destin tournament to get the tags and she did not know, but was going to get a copy of the minutes of the meeting and email them to me to find out myself.

She said FWC’s participation in this is strictly research and they have nothing to do with how the Destin Rodeo gives out the tags. I asked her what Florida’s plans are for our own state season. She said she knows that TX and LA have their own seasons and it is being discussed to have regional management in Florida. I did not get anything other than that. 

I called the Destin Rodeo and asked who was in charge of the Tags. I was told a lady named Helen but was told she was busy and would return my call. That was at 2pm and as of now, no return call. 

I want to confirm at this point if any of the other tournaments have charged for these tags. I am curious to the legality of them being sold when they were provided as federal grants/exemptions under the umbrella of research. Hard to believe a private business can profit off that.


----------



## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

This dog and pony show is ridiculous. The more I read through all of this garbage, the less I want to put forth the effort to go fishing and that is exactly what these hooligans are after. 

I feel sorry for the local tackle shops and the local charter boat operators that are bound by this injustice...


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

honestly from what I've heard the tags at the rodeo might never happen. They are already talking about pulling the plug on it and think they will.


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

bigrick said:


> honestly from what I've heard the tags at the rodeo might never happen. They are already talking about pulling the plug on it and think they will.


I can't imagine they are getting any good publicity from this.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Jon, I know Al Rodeo did not charge for tags. It was done by a drawing. You got into drawing by purchasing a Rodeo ticket. See link below.

http://adsfr.com/press.html?detail=22


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

bigrick said:


> honestly from what I've heard the tags at the rodeo might never happen. They are already talking about pulling the plug on it and think they will.


I imagine they are backing out... My guess is no one wants to be criminally charged with this. I do not know for sure, but I cannot see it being legal for a private business to profit off of a government grant/exemption..

My guess is they will keep the tags in the tournament but will not charge for them and will give them out for free in a lottery like the other tournaments. Just goes to show you who is in it for themselves.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> I talked to several people today regarding this corruption. I spoke with Roy Crabtree for about 30 minutes. Some highlights of the conversation were. .......
> 
> On separate notes and while I had crabtree on the phone I asked him about other Red Snapper issues including the fact that commercial fisherman are able to commercially fish for a fish that is considered “over-fished”. His out is that the Magneseum Stevens act clearly says, according to him that the resource will be fairly and equitable shared, including the commercial fisherman. Therefore the law would have to be changed to cut out the commercial fisherman, an entire separate fight. ..................


Thank you Captain Pinney for the notes on your conversation with Dr. Crabtree. Believe that the following is the section of the Magnuson Stevens Act that he was referring to (Paragraph 4a) .


16 U.S.C. 1851
MSA § 301
58
TITLE III—NATIONAL FISHERY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM
SEC. 301. NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR FISHERY 16 U.S.C. 1851
CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT
(a) IN GENERAL.—Any fishery management plan prepared, and any regulation promulgated to implement any such plan, pursuant to this title shall be consistent with the following national standards for fishery conservation and management:
98-623
(1) Conservation and management measures shall prevent overfishing while achieving,on a continuing basis, the optimum yield from each fishery for the United States fishing
industry.
(2) Conservation and management measures shall be based upon the best scientific information available.
(3) To the extent practicable, an individual stock of fish shall be managed as a unit throughout its range, and interrelated stocks of fish shall be managed as a unit or in close coordination.
(4) Conservation and management measures shall not discriminate between residents of different States. If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to all such fishermen; (B) reasonably calculated to promote conservation; and (C) carried out in such manner that no particular individual, corporation, or other entity acquires an excessive share of such privileges.
104-297
(5) Conservation and management measures shall, where practicable, consider efficiency in the utilization of fishery resources; except that no such measure shall have economic allocation as its sole purpose.
(6) Conservation and management measures shall take into account and allow for variations among, and contingencies in, fisheries, fishery resources, and catches.
(7) Conservation and management measures shall, where practicable, minimize costs and avoid unnecessary duplication.
104-297, 109-479
(8) Conservation and management measures shall, consistent with the conservation requirements of this Act (including the prevention of overfishing and rebuilding of overfished stocks), take into account the importance of fishery resources to fishing communities by utilizing economic and social data that meet the requirements of paragraph
(2), in order to (A) provide for the sustained participation of such communities, and (B) to the extent practicable, minimize adverse economic impacts on such communities.
16 U.S.C. 1851-1852
MSA §§ 301-302
59
104-297
(9) Conservation and management measures shall, to the extent practicable, (A) minimize bycatch and (B) to the extent bycatch cannot be avoided, minimize the mortality of such bycatch.
104-297
(10) Conservation and management measures shall, to the extent practicable, promote the safety of human life at sea.
97-453
(b) GUIDELINES.—The Secretary shall establish advisory guidelines (which shall not have the force and effect of law), based on the national standards, to assist in the development of fishery management plans.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Personally as bar certified "Sea Lawyer" I think based on the current IFQ snapper commercial allocation they may be in violation of paragraph 4c ("real" NOAA Lawyers say otherwise).

Additionally, it has been pointed out to Dr. Crabtree in the past that based on paragraph 5c. which describes the requirement to consider ""efficiency" in the utilization of fishery resources" that because the recreational snapper fishing industry has more economic benefit for individual States and the Federal Government than the commercial snapper industry that perhaps recreational snapper fisherman should "receive" a greater allocation of the snapper resource than the commercial gulf snapper industry, to which Dr. Crabtree responded that "no such measure shall have economic allocation as its sole purpose".


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Here is a link to the entire act if you care to look at it. 

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=1&gs_mss=magnuson%20steven%20&cp=20&gs_id=1p&xhr=t&q=magnuson+steven+2007&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=magnuson+steven+2007&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=7de02ee3532ef5e8&biw=1067&bih=633


All of "us" recreational fisherman should consider the following provision under the law in terms of where this "ride" is ultimately headed: 

104-297
(3) to promote domestic commercial and recreational fishing under sound conservation and management principles, including the promotion of catch and release programs in recreational fishing.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

(4) Conservation and management measures shall not discriminate between residents of different States. If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to all such fishermen; (B) reasonably calculated to promote conservation; and (C) carried out in such manner that no particular individual, corporation, or other entity acquires an excessive share of such privileges.
104-297


Well according to the above sector separation should not even be in the equation. I don’t think anything about sector separation is fair or equitable. From what I’m reading it should not have even been approached.


----------



## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

The Puppet masters want to do something that will make the recreational side simular to the commercial side. In the commercial side many are making money from side ops like the VMS systems the commercials are required to have. Why did they force the VMS on the commercials? It cant be for any logical reason unless they mistrust the fishermen. If they mistrust the commercial side, they surely feel that way about our side. I've been told that in the very near future, I'll be forced to put a VMS on the "Emerald Coast"... but over my dead body. 

They want to seperate the sectors and we can't let them. It will mean that people on private boats get to watch charter boats catch and keep snappers while they are required to feed them to a swimming mammal or, vice versa.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

The LaJess II said:


> (4) Conservation and management measures shall not discriminate between residents of different States. If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to all such fishermen; (B) reasonably calculated to promote conservation; and (C) carried out in such manner that no particular individual, corporation, or other entity acquires an excessive share of such privileges.
> 104-297
> 
> 
> Well according to the above sector separation should not even be in the equation. I don’t think anything about sector separation is fair or equitable. From what I’m reading it should not have even been approached.


 
what is the most concerning to me in the above paragraph 4 is that in my opinion since NOAA lawyers are fond of stating that "gulf fish belong to all Americans, not just the fisherman who live along the gulf" is that I can envision this recreational "tag program" to be legal would have to be open to all recreational fisherman in all 50 States annually. Most of whom will never make it down to the Gulf to fish for snapper....


----------



## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Since Romney is from Mass. do y'all think if he gets elected he will have Jane and Roy fired? Please, please, please.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Burnt Drag said:


> The Puppet masters want to do something that will make the recreational side simular to the commercial side. In the commercial side many are making money from side ops like the VMS systems the commercials are required to have. Why did they force the VMS on the commercials? It cant be for any logical reason unless they mistrust the fishermen. If they mistrust the commercial side, they surely feel that way about our side. I've been told that in the very near future, I'll be forced to put a VMS on the "Emerald Coast"... but over my dead body.
> 
> They want to seperate the sectors and we can't let them. It will mean that people on private boats get to watch charter boats catch and keep snappers while they are required to feed them to a swimming mammal or, vice versa.


 
Appreciate your attitude Captain!


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

I see this as nothing more than a "Money Grab" by the people seeing what the fishermen will pay for the stamps. 10 bucks each is NOT worth keeping the stupid fish. 

tell me this, where are the elected officials? do they give a crap? we all agree its BS, but how come we all think its BS yet nothing seems to get anyones attention?


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*yep*

I imagine they are backing out... My guess is no one wants to be criminally charged with this. I do not know for sure, but I cannot see it being legal for a private business to profit off of a government grant/exemption..


HaHa not like anything like that would ever happen in Okaloosa county we may not know if its leagal but I bet you they do now.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

billin said:


> I imagine they are backing out... My guess is no one wants to be criminally charged with this. I do not know for sure, but I cannot see it being legal for a private business to profit off of a government grant/exemption..
> 
> 
> HaHa not like anything like that would ever happen in Okaloosa county we may not know if its leagal but I bet you they do now.


LOL!!!!!!!!!! So True.


----------



## Team Fish Head (Oct 1, 2012)

Florida is a Swing State, so your voices are for more likely to reach sympathetic ears. These profiteering bastards don't fear anything because they've come to expect that it is all about who you know and write that check to! 

The more folks who get involved and become educated on the topic well enough to slay any nay saying slogan hurling lib. Check out the highest dollar fishing ports and get back to me....that's who is pulling the strings.


----------



## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

Any data collected is going to be ridiculously skewed for this tournament. If someone paid for Snapper and no one has caught snapper in weeks, you can be darn sure they are going to catch snapper all day until they have 4 15+ pound fish (if it takes more than 20 minutes that is).


----------



## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

bigrick said:


> A bunch of fisherman (private and charter) had heard of the idea and were pushing for us to make it happen cause in their eyes being able to keep 4 by catch snapper beats the shit out of zero. So eventually in an effort to please everyone as much as possible we decided to take the tags and distribute them lottery style.
> 
> .


To be done "fairly", the FWC should have done a drawing of all of the Florida saltwater licensed fishermen, not just a chosen few. The fish belong to all of us.
The only people "pleased" are the 100 that got to pay for "our" fish. I, for one, think the whole thing stinks.
Sea-r-cy


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

> tell me this, where are the elected officials? do they give a crap? we all agree its BS, but how come we all think its BS yet nothing seems to get anyones attention?


This is the question. Are we just hypersensitive? Or are the elected officials just that dumb? The corruption and faulty studies are right there in everyone's faces. Dr. Shipp has testified in front of the House numerous times, to no avail. More than likely, they are trying to play both sides of the fence and we need to find a way to make them pick a side.


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Is there any way to converge these two threads?


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

My thoughts are start with the small fights and work our way up the ladder. A point needs to made to the Destin Rodeo and Destin Charter Boat Association that this is not acceptable. Then fight with the state for a florida snapper season, then fight the feds.... For years the fight has been with the feds and it has not gotten any better.... I think a fight with Destin and then the state would produce better results IMO...Of course I could be wrong too...


----------



## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

I would have no problem with the FWC issueing an optional $10 red snapper permit (one per fisherman) for the off season. (not to interfering with the regular season).
I fish with several people that only get to fish one day off-season, and would gladly pay $10 to keep a trophy size snapper.
However, this type permit would have to be available to everyone.
Sea-r-cy


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> My thoughts are start with the small fights and work our way up the ladder. A point needs to made to the Destin Rodeo and Destin Charter Boat Association that this is not acceptable. Then fight with the state for a florida snapper season, then fight the feds.... For years the fight has been with the feds and it has not gotten any better.... I think a fight with Destin and then the state would produce better results IMO...Of course I could be wrong too...


The Destin Rodeo can be won, but I think a fight with the DCBA is a waste of time. Unless you can convince EVERYONE to stop booking trips with them.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

MrFish said:


> The Destin Rodeo can be won, but I think a fight with the DCBA is a waste of time. Unless you can convince EVERYONE to stop booking trips with them.


I am not out to stop them from making a living, but I do think that those showing no integrity need to be held accountable for their actions...


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

MrFish said:


> Is there any way to converge these two threads?


I don't know...I will PM the owner and see if he can look into it...


----------



## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Sea-r-cy said:


> I would have no problem with the FWC issueing an optional $10 red snapper permit (one per fisherman) for the off season. (not to interfering with the regular season).
> I fish with several people that only get to fish one day off-season, and would gladly pay $10 to keep a trophy size snapper.
> However, this type permit would have to be available to everyone.
> Sea-r-cy


Respectfully!
BULLSH*T, My friend... we need to stop acting like this fishery belongs to anyone other than us. Paying anyone more than our fishing license is extortion. We need to keep that in mind.


----------



## Downtime2 (Sep 27, 2007)

Threads are merged now....


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*tags*

Guys unless you havent noticed Association is the new catch phrase for Union. These guys will buy ever tag as soon as they hit the market and WE THE PEOPLE will be forced to buy themfrom the union thugs oops association members . This is all being done to fund there little boys club. This has happend in the past with all forms of trade ever wonder why so many farms are subsidized to the point they no longer produce anything????? ever wonder how that happened????? this is the beginning of the end of recreational fisihng in the gulf of mexico no longer will we be able to go out and fish without paying a third party for the right to do so.The sad part is it will not end with the Snapper if they can cram this down our throats the rest of the fish should be easy.


----------



## atlantacapt (Oct 2, 2007)

three words....grill and release.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

I agree Billin...

For those who may may missed the info before I will post the contact numbers again here for your conveinance.... We all can't go to meetings, and emails can easily be deleted and ignored, but being a concerned pain in their ass will aggrevate them if nothing else. Call and express your concern and ask questions...Its easier than I thought it would be to get ahold of these people. Make them answer you directly and don't allow them to beat around the bush. I was frustrated and mad as hell when I called, but I was civil and made it clear to them that I appreciated them explaining it all to me the best they could... ask the hard questions. 

*Dr Roy Crabtree---727-824-5301*

*Martha with FWC*..She has the tags on her desk and is in charge of Florida's marine fisheries... *850-617-9632*

*Helen with Destin Fishing Rodeo* who I never got a call back from...hummmm *850.837.6734*


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

there MUST be a single voice to represent the fishermen. If we all call and complain, that does nothing, but tie up a couple phone lines....

unless rec fishermen combine their efforts and unite for the common goal, then what we will have is what someone else decided what we should have......

It seems this has been discussed for years now.


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Realtor said:


> there MUST be a single voice to represent the fishermen. If we all call and complain, that does nothing, but tie up a couple phone lines....
> 
> unless rec fishermen combine their efforts and unite for the common goal, then what we will have is what someone else decided what we should have......
> 
> It seems this has been discussed for years now.


We have discussed it and we know what we need, so what is stopping us from starting it?


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Destin*

dont hold your breath for that call back. I am willing to bet they never imagined this many people would rise up and push back against them. I am sure they are just scared and dont know how to respond cause there is no way they dont know about this thread already and could easily respond to all of us on here.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Realtor said:


> there MUST be a single voice to represent the fishermen. If we all call and complain, that does nothing, but tie up a couple phone lines....
> 
> unless rec fishermen combine their efforts and unite for the common goal, then what we will have is what someone else decided what we should have......
> 
> It seems this has been discussed for years now.


Well I tied up their phone lines for several hours today and felt like I accomplished quite a bit by learning how this destin corruption started. I am sure there is a ton more that has gone on that I am not privy to yet, but it was interesting that they were concerned enough to dance around some of my questions. Apparently there is enough "talk" going on that the *rumor* is the rodeo is discussing not having the tags at all now. If that happened I would consider it a small win.

I do agree that there needs to be once voice for the recreational fisherman...are you volunteering to be that voice?


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

> I do agree that there needs to be once voice for the recreational fisherman...are you volunteering to be that voice?


It takes 3-12 months for the IRS to approve Not-for-profit status.:whistling:


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

MrFish said:


> We have discussed it and we know what we need, so what is stopping us from starting it?


Money, time, and someone with the private boat owners *trust*....As much as I hate to say it, an attorney who is an avid red snapper fisherman who has the drive and time to fight it would be ideal....Too many conficts of interest are representing us at this point


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

MrFish said:


> We have discussed it and we know what we need, so what is stopping us from starting it?


the few thing stopping this from starting is (only from where I am sitting)

No focal point (Single Voice)
Local Elected officials are not involved, or they don't care..... Remember this come local election time.
time and Money for that single voice to be effective.

just from where I am sittin.....


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

MrFish said:


> It takes 3-12 months for the IRS to approve Not-for-profit status.:whistling:


I wonder ... If the NRA would be willing to take recreational fisherman in as a branch program/association. The NRA already has the legislative contacts and the legal counsel in place that could make a difference. 

To far of a reach?

I mean it would be advantageous to recreational fisherman and to the NRA if they are looking to expand membership and position themselves for the future. 
I would be willing to make some calls up to the NRA executive level...


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

markw4321 said:


> I wonder ... If the NRA would be willing to take recreational fisherman in as a branch program/association. The NRA already has the legislative contacts and the legal counsel in place that could make a difference.
> 
> To far of a reach?
> 
> ...


Worst that happens is you are told no.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Best part of the NRA is the conflict of interest part shouldn't be there and they are already established as trusted among sportsman


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> I wonder ... If the NRA would be willing to take recreational fisherman in as a branch program/association. The NRA already has the legislative contacts and the legal counsel in place that could make a difference.
> 
> To far of a reach?
> 
> ...


 
I think this is a GREAT idea! NRA is a BIG single voice....


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> Best part of the NRA is the conflict of interest part shouldn't be there and they are already established as trusted among sportsman


And they have the ability to raise a lot of money....it will take a pile of it to fight this fight I am sure.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I will attempt it and report back what I find. Intent is to inform NRA leadership of the existing void with respect to a large well funded and politically active voice for recreational fisherman and obtain their viewpoint on if they desire to learn more about the situation facing recreational fisherman and potentially examine how the NRA might become involved in recreational fishing rights advocacy.


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

markw4321 said:


> I will attempt it and report back what I find. Intent is to inform NRA leadership of the existing void with respect to a large well funded and politically active voice for recreational fisherman and obtain their viewpoint on if they desire to learn more about the situation facing recreational fisherman and potentially examine how the NRA might become involved in recreational fishing rights advocacy.


If they decide not to play, may I suggest figuring our where everyone is, meaning, get a group together and force your county commissioners to act on your behalf. 

Each district commissioner gets urged by a group of rec fishermen from their districts.... start the food chain from the bottom up.... (voters)

Thoughts?


----------



## guam_bomb80 (Nov 17, 2010)

May I suggest contacting your district congressman.... They cant ignore everyone.
I have expressed my concerns of sector seperation/catch shares with Congressman Miller through his Govt. Email a few weeks ago and have not recieved any feedback. Not sure my one comment/question email will make a difference, but its a start.


----------



## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Very good research Jon! Roy is very easy to talk too. I really hope a lot of you will come to Biloxi the end of the month and listen in on some of the meetings and let your voice be heard. I will be there at some of the meetings but I really like to be there after the meetings in the hallways and the bars, thats where the real lobbying takes place.
I will be there making my voice heard to as many council members as I can. My main agenda will be putting my input in the Triggerfish season for 2013, making sure Amberjack season and size limits remain the same, and making sure nothing is being talked about thats just plain crazy. Do you know that they actually wanted the triggerfish size limit to be 27 inches at one point? I will listen and learn more on sector separation, fish tags, regional management. Mainly I will just listen and learn and find out whats coming down the pipe so I can adjust my business accordingly for next season. I have found out that just giving public testimony does very little, but talking and expressing concerns to the right people can do lots. My number one concern is fish closures, its the number one thing that hurts us all.


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Nra*

This is a idea. Has anyone contacted Tom Hilton and made him aware he seems to be well connected maybe he can help


----------



## Team Fish Head (Oct 1, 2012)

*Apologies for the length but this stuff makes my angina fire up.



Burnt Drag said:


> Respectfully!
> BULLSH*T, My friend... *we need to stop acting like this fishery belongs to anyone other than us*. *Paying anyone more than our fishing license is extortion. We need to keep that in mind*.


Organization is the only way to fight *bureaucracy*. Remember, these folks get paid and supposedly earn that which is commiserate with the public sector (), so when you see the PHD that means the individual is getting three times what you and your Wife make. Now when an election cycle provides for an unassailable Political majority as we are all about to CELEBRATE!, boots can be put to asses and these highly paid experts who will not be so in the Real World should grasp the dire straits they now face.

Oh yes, call it by any name but Politics and it is just sour grapes...this according to the guy in charge right now. To whom falls the Economic Impact of all this? Who wins, iow?

I joined here because I am determined to eventually relocate or at least maintain a semi-annual presence on the beaches and waters of the Emerald Coast. Four Generations now call the Area our Family vacation choice and we make two pilgrimages annually. I have no problem calling the Panhandle of Florida my Second Home today because it has been for six Decades. All this stuff matters to me because why would I insist upon making a generational type of investment if that which I return to enjoy twice a Year is taken away?

Looking at this from my perspective, when combined with the closure of the Atlantic Reef Fishery, why would I want to buy on any SE US coastline OR Gulf of Mexico if I were an avid fisherman? What was that...28" slot limit on TRIGGERS?  The Govt. closes further exploration/development of natural resourses to benefit the fish they now forbid be caught EXCEPT by a select, MONIED FEW?

Yea, been here and done this folks. Time for y'all to get the 'red ass' collectively and a few well placed Facebook posts later you'll have your audience. But I haven't told nobody nuthin....understand? :shifty:


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Got the Minutes from the last meeting... I will try and post some of the highlights through out the day as I have time...Here is one of the selffish jackasses from Destin

*MR. CLIFF COX: My name is Captain Cliff Cox from Destin, Florida. I own and operate a fifty-six-foot headboat and I’m vice president of the Destin Fishermen’s Co-op and a member of the Charter Fishermen’s Association* and I’m coming to you today -- I thank you for the opportunity to speak to you and our industry needs some help.

We’re facing a lot of issues and I strongly support sector separation. I think it’s the only way we’re going to fix our industry. 

Having our own allocation of fish would allow us to get away from this derby-style fishery that we’re trapped in right now and give us flexibility to operate our businesses the way we think we need to and also it would give us some value, which we currently don’t have, to our permits and our businesses.

The commercial sector has proved that having an allocation and fishing it responsibly and having the highest degree of scrutiny and accountability works for the fish as well as the fishermen. It also gives National Marine Fisheries and the Science Center the best data possible to work with.

We need the council’s help in moving forward with some new management tools, be it headboat pilots, charterboat pilots, or the headboat cooperative. The Gulf Headboat Cooperative was formed to test a cooperative-style management plan for red snapper and gag grouper, with a group of about twenty boats from around the Gulf.

We believe this program, as well as other pilot programs, will give National Marine Fisheries and the Gulf Council models to look at in future management of the charter for-hire industry. It’s time for some new ideas and to move towards a viable fishery management plan for the charter for-hire sector.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

And they have already seperated us as far as the minutes of the meeting are concerned

*MS. WILLIAMS: *If there are fish left over after the season and they want to take whatever that amount is, like we did the weekend fishing somehow, *to where there is fish available for both the charter for-hire in these tournaments and maybe some to give to the states for your private recreational fishermen, then I don’t have a problem with that. *I just don’t want to go over the quota.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

You can find the same minutes at the council website http://www.gulfcouncil.org/


----------



## Team Fish Head (Oct 1, 2012)

Hmmmm....so creating a closed fishery for the touristas on their boats, another for the commercials, and another for the rec fishermen is the gist of it?



> Having our own allocation of fish would allow us to get away from this derby-style fishery that we’re trapped in right now and give us flexibility to operate our businesses the way we think we need to and also it would give us some value, which we currently don’t have, to our permits and our businesses.


Excuse me...I once oversaw the ops of a regional trucking concern and learned that there were OTHER COMPANIES that did the SAME THING! Imagine my shock! We, like you, chose our path and did battle in the marketplace and suffered mightily at the hands of the Regulators as they favored the UNIONS over the INDEPENDENTS because of who wrote campaign contribution checks. No matter, you hunker down or gtfo and surrender is not in our creed. We adapted and make more today per mile than in our wildest dreams. 



> The commercial sector has proved that having an allocation and fishing it responsibly and *having the highest degree of scrutiny and accountability* works for the fish as well as the fishermen. It also gives National Marine Fisheries and the Science Center the best data possible to work with.
> 
> We need the council’s help in moving forward with some *new management tools, be it headboat pilots, charterboat pilots, or the headboat cooperative. The Gulf Headboat Cooperative was formed to test a cooperative-style management plan for red snapper and gag grouper, with a group of about twenty boats from around the Gulf*.


Wow....So as there is currently ZERO oversight since he asks for their 'help' in getting 20 or so observers for how much area? What kind of drugs are being passed out prior to these meetings????

But we've yet to learn the specifics of all this *highest degree of scrutiny and accountability* has spared the extinction of Gulf Reef Species as it has the surrender of the Atlantic Reef Fishery to takeover by lion fish. 

Jibber Jabber!


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Destin*

Guys we need to get the word out in the northern states. Tourist will charter these guys regardless and they know it. I propose a take a tourist fishing for free campaign. We can advertise it as long as we don't call it a charter. We can do it as long as we don't charge them anything,we can ask for gas money but that is all.we can do this and it will have an impact. They will get the message. I know taking folks on your boat that you don't know may be uncomfortable for some but it beats the heck out of paying for the right to fish on there boats.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

*NRA phone call*

I made the call to NRA this morning. My call was directed to talk to a mid-level staffer in the NRA's legislative / political action division. I explained the situation facing recreational offshore fisherman in detail and how it could potentially benefit the NRA (+ membership) and recreational fisheman to join together. We spoke for about 20 minutes and while the NRA staffer was sympathetic to our issues and understood all of what was going on with respect to the ongoing degradation of recreational fishing priveleges (rights) and access to offshore recreational fisheries, according to the staff member I spoke with the stated NRA position from the executive level is that the "NRA's intent is to remain focused on second amendment firearm/gun ownership and hunting/shooting rights advocacy." 


I then expresed the "concept" that perhaps the NRA might be interested in "creating" a branch or division or offshoot that could be a recreational fishing advocacy political action arm, which was entirely separate from the NRA (so as not to detract from the second amendment rights NRA focus), but which could still benefit from the NRA's legislative contacts and political capital. The NRA staffer again indicated to me that the expressed NRA executive level position was to remain focused on second amendment gun issues.

It was a pleasant conversation, but I gained no traction. 

I have one more POC (former USA Olympic shooting team member) that may be able to get me to the NRA executivel level. will let you know. 
Mark

P.S. Anyone know Ted Nugent (LoL) maybe he could assit?


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

For starters , Cliff Cox runs the Sweet Jody in Destin and is one of Gary Jarvis's goons. Second , I think if we could put together a solid article I could get it published in the Destin Log , at least alerting locals that there is a problem. Once it's published it can be posted on multiple sites and help make people aware and maybe get a movement going. A lot of recreational guys don't have time to research stuff or do anything about it. I think an article would be the best way to make the public aware without having to consume a lot of peoples time and money.


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Big rick*

Agreed an article is a good start. The Destin log may not be the best rag to start with though not enough circulation


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

bigrick said:


> For starters , Cliff Cox runs the Sweet Jody in Destin and is one of Gary Jarvis's goons. Second , I think if we could put together a solid article I could get it published in the Destin Log , at least alerting locals that there is a problem. Once it's published it can be posted on multiple sites and help make people aware and maybe get a movement going. A lot of recreational guys don't have time to research stuff or do anything about it. I think an article would be the best way to make the public aware without having to consume a lot of peoples time and money.


I can write well if no one else wants to volunteer I would be glad to put an article together. I have a connection with a writer who currently is one of the top staff writers for the Army Times and writes some AP articles as well, she may be able to help our cause as I am sure she has connections in several major media outlets.

Obviously not just to expose the Destin boats but the whole agenda.


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

> Obviously not just to expose the Destin boats but the whole agenda.


That's more like a novel to summarize everything they have done and are trying to do.


----------



## tra (Oct 10, 2012)

I have read this site for a few years but decided to register and post on this subject, have yall considered starting a facebook page also? seems that everyone has one nowdays and could reach alot of people like this.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

I'd suggest anyone wanting to do something to fight the immediate fight 1st and get something done about destin rodeo selling these tags. Focus on the big fight with the feds afterwards...


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

I have reached out to a couple contacts, one at Florida Sportfishing Mag and the other I spoke of, waiting on a reply to see if they are interested in helping.


----------



## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fishing Rights Alliance news letter update sent out today. Addresses the Destin Rodeo, Gags, and Trigger fish.




*News and Updates - *
_Public input hearings for STATE and FEDERAL regulators_
_Other news - Recreational catch shares_

*Public input hearings on Gulf Gag, Triggerfish
*
The state of Florida's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is having a gag rules workshop tomorrow evening from six until 8 PM in Perry Florida. The FRA will attempt to broadcast this workshop in lieu of its 8 PM broadcast about the upcoming gag hearings.

This meeting will provide important input to the state of Florida on how its citizens would like their gag fishery managed. We encourage everyone to watch the broadcast. We will attempt to provide a recording of the broadcast and make it available to the general public on Friday.

We are concerned that there is no option to increase the minimum size of gag grouper. A minimum size of 26 inches would greatly reduce landings and increase our recreational gag season.
We will produce a broadcast with information on the upcoming public hearings and make it available to our members by Saturday. We encourage all members to attempt to attend the public hearings next week throughout the Gulf. 

We also have very grave concerns over the tools developed inside of the National Marine fisheries service office that purport to predict angler effort and landings based on various factors. The effort compression tool calculates a doubling of the recreational effort whenever the season would be cut in half.

*PUBLIC INPUT for gag grouper*

The Council continues to be evasive about the times for the public input hearings, scheduled for next week throughout the Gulf. CALL THEM and ask them exactly where the times are listed. 813-348-1630. Get the locations and dates from the FRA website, www.thefra.org. 

You should make sure that you attend one of these public input hearings. *THE STATE OF FLORIDA WILL USE THIS INPUT FOR THEIR OWN DELIBERATIONS* in December. It is time to say ENOUGH. ENOUGH job loss, ENOUGH economic damage, ENOUGH flawed management, ENOUGH lies. Congress is catching on and will be watching closely the turnout at these hearings. No excuses. Just show up. Click here to get the flyer and information for the meetings. You can also get the documents for the Gag and Gray Triggerfish issues. More information to follow.

*Other news - Recreational Catch Shares*

There is some concern over a red snapper data collection plan in place for the Destin rodeo. The idea was to collect some red snapper data during parts of the year when that data is not normally collected, thanks to NMFS' draconian red snapper regulations and their heavy-handed management of our fishery.
This particular data collection methodology looks, unfortunately, like it was written by catch share advocate Environmental Defense Fund as a blueprint for recreational catch shares. We must make sure that this in not a precedent used to infuse the insipid catch share plan into the recreational sector. It looks NOTHING like any exempted fishing permit data collection plan, which is the only way to collect fish outside of a closed season. 

It is NOT, however, a plan by the Destin Charterboat Association to push recreational catch shares. They have an honest and admirable desire to help collect scientific data AND promote the GREAT sport of fishing. This same program was initiated in Louisiana. Let's turn the anger toward what we guess is the source of this attempt at back door delivery: Environmetal Defense Fund. 

Watch for a piece from Tom Hilton on following the money behind the catch share movement. EDF is pretty, um, sneaky.

In the meantime, remember that NMFS has failed to properly manage our fisheries, ignored Congress and Magnuson Stevens, defied Congress and abused their power. We need to remind Congress of these atrocities and demand accountability of NMFS employees. 

Turn out at the public input hearings on Gag. Speak your mind, or you will lose another of your precious rights.


----------



## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

It has been a while since I looked at the comments on this forum and only came here because of the issue of the red snapper research that has been conducted by LA and AL and was proposed to be continued with FL through the Destin Fishing Rodeo. First, since I was at the council meeting where all this took place, let me try to set the record straight although it is easy for all to read as per the council minuted from the april and june meetings. The effort was initiated by LA and since they were seeking exempted permits for one or more of their rodeos, AL picked up on the idea and then FL. MS had no interest nor did TX. Some of us made some calls to folks in the panhandle to ask about any interest for any established rodeo/tourney that traditionally had red snapper in the mix and Destin showed the only interest.
While I am as distrustful as anyone on any effort that the NMFS is involved in, the nmfs was asked for exempted permits, they did not suggest this. Also, there never any discussion or effort I am aware of that this whole issue was done in the guise of testing fish tags and rec fish for sale, it was to capture data from rec fishermen in rodeos off the coast of LA, AL, and panhandle of FL. Clearly a method had to be created to allow collection of the limited number of red snapper so some type of tag system was created.
I am not involved in the destin rodeo nor privey to the discussion or rationale behind how they intended to allocate the 400 fish but seriously doubt they did so with the intent to test a tag system. I may be wrong. I can tell you that the vast majority of the destin charter fleet owners do not support sector separation although they are interested in having answers provided to questions they have asked for years. So far they have not received those answers but, and this is a large but, the discussion about the issue of the 400 fish and the comments made on this and other forums, most uninformed and assumptions, not fact, are having an affect on many in destin who are not of the jarvis, ard, fairey, obfa camp. The destin rodeo did not need red snapper to have a successful rodeo, which by the way has been ongoing for over 40 years always in Oct. This was not a test for 400 fish, it was simply an effort to be able to do what LA and AL did. Taking unfounded shots and making inflammatory comments about the destin fleet and their actions is simply providing ammunition for the pro sector separation advocates such as jarvis, ard, fairey, obfa, and the small group from TX and off clearwater. It also helps crabtree and other nmfs staff with their arguments to further divide the rec sector which will simply result in the demise of our fishery.
I hear rumor that the destin folks have decided to eliminate red snapper from the rodeo and will refuse to issue any tags due to the controversy this has created. I can tell you the damage done to the effort many of us have worked so hard to stop, sector separation has been substantial. I can only hope that some of you will look at the facts, not pay attention to the bs, and recognize who your friends really are. I saw where ard recommended going to the council to listen and participate in the crabtree show of q&a. I suggest you do as you will certainly find out for sure who the supporters of sector separation are and are not so you know who they are when they provide comments on blogs like this. 
Watch for rebuttals from those sec sep supporters.


----------



## gator7_5 (Oct 4, 2007)

bob II said:


> It has been a while since I looked at the comments on this forum and only came here because of the issue of the red snapper research that has been conducted by LA and AL and was proposed to be continued with FL through the Destin Fishing Rodeo. First, since I was at the council meeting where all this took place, let me try to set the record straight although it is easy for all to read as per the council minuted from the april and june meetings. The effort was initiated by LA and since they were seeking exempted permits for one or more of their rodeos, AL picked up on the idea and then FL. MS had no interest nor did TX. Some of us made some calls to folks in the panhandle to ask about any interest for any established rodeo/tourney that traditionally had red snapper in the mix and Destin showed the only interest.
> While I am as distrustful as anyone on any effort that the NMFS is involved in, the nmfs was asked for exempted permits, they did not suggest this. Also, there never any discussion or effort I am aware of that this whole issue was done in the guise of testing fish tags and rec fish for sale, it was to capture data from rec fishermen in rodeos off the coast of LA, AL, and panhandle of FL. Clearly a method had to be created to allow collection of the limited number of red snapper so some type of tag system was created.
> I am not involved in the destin rodeo nor privey to the discussion or rationale behind how they intended to allocate the 400 fish but seriously doubt they did so with the intent to test a tag system. I may be wrong. I can tell you that the vast majority of the destin charter fleet owners do not support sector separation although they are interested in having answers provided to questions they have asked for years. So far they have not received those answers but, and this is a large but, the discussion about the issue of the 400 fish and the comments made on this and other forums, most uninformed and assumptions, not fact, are having an affect on many in destin who are not of the jarvis, ard, fairey, obfa camp. The destin rodeo did not need red snapper to have a successful rodeo, which by the way has been ongoing for over 40 years always in Oct. This was not a test for 400 fish, it was simply an effort to be able to do what LA and AL did. Taking unfounded shots and making inflammatory comments about the destin fleet and their actions is simply providing ammunition for the pro sector separation advocates such as jarvis, ard, fairey, obfa, and the small group from TX and off clearwater. It also helps crabtree and other nmfs staff with their arguments to further divide the rec sector which will simply result in the demise of our fishery.
> I hear rumor that the destin folks have decided to eliminate red snapper from the rodeo and will refuse to issue any tags due to the controversy this has created. I can tell you the damage done to the effort many of us have worked so hard to stop, sector separation has been substantial. I can only hope that some of you will look at the facts, not pay attention to the bs, and recognize who your friends really are. I saw where ard recommended going to the council to listen and participate in the crabtree show of q&a. I suggest you do as you will certainly find out for sure who the supporters of sector separation are and are not so you know who they are when they provide comments on blogs like this.
> Watch for rebuttals from those sec sep supporters.


Do you mind disclosing your association to the fishing industry? Captain, Rec Fisherman?


----------



## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Quote from Capt. Pinney's conversation with Crabtree;
*"I asked him (Crabtree) if we can expect Red Snapper tags as a regulation in the future and he said YES."*

Interesting that the *Exempted Fishing Permits* are *ALL* for scenarios that (coincidentally?) dovetail with the Environmental Defense Fund's (and apparently NMFS') plan for our fisheries; *IFQs for the headboats, Days At Sea for the CFH vessels, and Fish Tags for the private recs*. It's no coincidence.

Also interesting to note that there is nothing on the table at the Council level regarding any pilot programs for the private recreational sector - just the for-hire. They claim that there are just too many private recs, yet they have exactly ZERO data regarding the number of private recreational vessels fishing in the Gulf. Strange. Seems like that should be the VERY first plan of action - identify the number of private recreational vessels fishing OFFSHORE in the Gulf of Mexico in order to make INFORMED decisions, but what do I know.

Perhaps this action of pushing EFPs for select groups is infuriating to the majority of Gulf fishermen due to the fact that we have been all but shut out of our fisheries at this time, and it looks to bestow favoritism to certain factions and not others.

That is why it is so important to develop a Plan that addresses *ALL* of the recreational fishermen across the Gulf in a manner that provides fair and equal management. Until that happens, nothing will change except the continued reduction of access to our fishery. After all, it is RECREATIONAL fishermen who are fishing aboard the private rec, cfh, and headboat vessels - they should NOT be regulated simply by the platform they fish from - we should all be regulated under the same rules in regards to access and bag limits.

In addition, the charter for-hire vessels and headboats are an essential component that make up the socio-economic fabric of our coastal communities, so I hope that they understand that the mistrust displayed here regarding fish tags is not directed at them, but at the apparent hijack of our fisheries management process by the well-funded enviro corporation - EDF, and the NMFS' willing complicity in that action. I would very much like to see all of us return to the pre-2007 hijack management where they actually had it right; the fish were rebuilding, the charter guys and private recs knew when the season opened and closed each year so they could plan accordingly, and the coastal communities benefitted greatly from all of this. I believe we could be fishing 6 months or more if truthful and accurate data was being used regarding effort, landings, and fishery biomass.

The EDF-scripted changes to the Magnuson in the 2006 Reauthorization need to be rescinded during the upcoming Reauthorization.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

Tom Hilton said:


> Quote from Capt. Pinney's conversation with Crabtree;
> *"I asked him (Crabtree) if we can expect Red Snapper tags as a regulation in the future and he said YES."*
> 
> Interesting that the *Exempted Fishing Permits* are *ALL* for scenarios that (coincidentally?) dovetail with the Environmental Defense Fund's (and apparently NMFS') plan for our fisheries; *IFQs for the headboats, Days At Sea for the CFH vessels, and Fish Tags for the private recs*. It's no coincidence.
> ...


Agree 10,000 percent. Here's a question for those that are in the know. How can a regular guy like myself that does not have the time to spend at meetings support somone or some group that is willing to stand up to these idiots. We have a few groups, FRA, RFA, and a few others. I have sent in what money I can to these groups. But it seems like we are just spinning our wheels against the big machine.

The majority of rec fishermen are just like myself and we have regular day jobs and families to support. It leaves a very small amount of time to fish etc... as it is. So we don't have the time to go to meetings and do other things that would be benificial to the cause. It's a hobby and a right I might add. But it's getting taken away from us year by year.

So what to do?????? I am very thankfull for the few people that have the time and take the time to fight for this right for us. But what do us regular rec guys do. Send in money to who???? Support what organization???? Don't tell me to show up to the meetings etc.... Just can't do that with my more important obligations to my work and family. In this day and age with protests and information spreading on the internet like wildfire, there has to be a way to get the information out there and get people on the band wagon to promote change.


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Telum Pisces said:


> But what do us regular rec guys do. Send in money to who???? Support what organization????


+1...


----------



## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

Simply getting to old for this shit. *If* I catch, em; and I *wanna* eat em, I'll eat em. When Big Bubba says, "whatcha in for", I'm gonna say "fishin"! Letem keep me alive; that is getting to be a task that no wants any part of! Some slick lawyer will be glad to fight "Cruel and unusual punishment". If they assigned me to weekend's, my wife would say, "Thank god for a break"!

Good luck fellas, they are making pirates out of all of us........ except for those idiots that can't catch one.


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Tom*

I agree with one on all except one point. SOS in Destin has been and always will be a point of contention in Destin there are alot of private boat owners over here who feel shorted and abused. Most of the charter boat owners are against SOS but the ones who support it the most also speak for the masses through there association and have been on the for front of SOS since the begininng. Destin used to be a graet place to fish and the Rodeo was alot of fun but they really should have done a little research and gathered public input before the tried this little stunt. Say what you want but its pretty obvious this was an attempt to sell tags and see where the market is so they can be priced accordingly next year. LA and AL picked up on this and didnt sell the tags.


----------



## Salty Daze (Sep 25, 2011)

Here is the email I just received from the Destin fishing rodeo:

Dear Rodeo Captains

Because of the number of boats involved in the Rodeo and the possibility of adding 40 – 60 boats to the last weekend of the Rodeo in this section of the Harbor, we have canceled Red Snapper Weekend for the safety of our participants and the efficiency of the weigh-in.

We are in the process of cutting checks to those of you that have purchased tickets for the drawing. We will be mailing them out tomorrow.

Sincerely,


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

tomnmendy said:


> Because of the number of boats involved in the Rodeo and the possibility of adding 40 – 60 boats to the last weekend of the Rodeo in this section of the Harbor, we have canceled Red Snapper Weekend for the safety of our participants and the efficiency of the weigh-in.
> Sincerely,



Ha what a joke. Sounds like something one of the SOS guys said in the council meeting about "derby style snapper fishing".


----------



## Salty Daze (Sep 25, 2011)

Dear Rodeo Captains

Because of the number of boats involved in the Rodeo and the possibility of adding 40 – 60 boats to the last weekend of the Rodeo in this section of the Harbor, we have canceled Red Snapper Weekend for the safety of our participants and the efficiency of the weigh-in.

We are in the process of cutting checks to those of you that have purchased tickets for the drawing. We will be mailing them out tomorrow.

Sincerely,



*What I think is bogus about this email is this:
You have to have been already signed up for the rodeo to get a chance at the lottery for the tags. So there is no additional 40 -60 boats being added to the rodeo that were not already apart of the rodeo! If you were worried about the efficiency of the weigh in then why wouldn't you put a cap on the amount of boats allowed to register for the rodeo in the first place? How does the snapper tags equate to 40-60 extra boats anyhow? Here's a word problem for you: If there are 400 tags, and there is 4 tags per packet that were being distributed by lottery process, that leaves us with 100 packets for lotto, you have to be registered in the rodeo as a boat to have a chance at a red snapper tag packet, you can register as many times as your deep or shallow pocket allows you to but are only allowed one packet per boat, doesn't this leave you with 100 boats that were already registered in the rodeo? Or were some charter boat captains with multiple boats going to be allowed to have multiple packets under different boats? Just another part of the game that is unfolding I guess! Starting to make me not want to be a part of this anymore. *


----------



## Salty Daze (Sep 25, 2011)

So what happens to the tags that the rodeo has been granted? Do they end up on the charter boats (hiding behind the rodeo) for them to make money off of at some later date? I mean this was for an important study that certainly is very important to the existence of the rare red snapper right? Something smells fishy? lol


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

tomnmendy said:


> So what happens to the tags that the rodeo has been granted? Do they end up on the charter boats (hiding behind the rodeo) for them to make money off of at some later date? I mean this was for an important study that certainly is very important to the existence of the rare red snapper right? Something smells fishy? lol


I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone have a contact number for the tournament?


----------



## Salty Daze (Sep 25, 2011)

I think Mr. Pinney actually spoke to someone who had the tags for the rodeo sitting on their desk.


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

tomnmendy said:


> I think Mr. Pinney actually spoke to someone who had the tags for the rodeo sitting on their desk.


FWC is still in possession of the tags from what I can gather from Capt Pinney's posts


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

sniperpeeps said:


> FWC is still in possession of the tags from what I can gather from Capt Pinney's posts


Did he post the phone number?


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

MrFish said:


> Did he post the phone number?


Yea it's back there somewhere


----------



## bob II (Dec 26, 2008)

*to gator 7_5*

I wrote the post as a personal message and it is not to be any official message from any assn I am affiliated with. This disclaimer being said, I own and operate a family charter fishing business in Panama City, been working with my family since 1965, 12 years old. I am also the President of the Panama City Boatmen Assn, Northwest Florida Director of the Florida Guides Assn, and President of the National Association of Charterboat Operators. I was simply trying to set the record straight on the issue of red snapper and the Destin Rodeo. As another piece of information, all three assns I am a member of and represent at various times are all on record as being completely opposed to sector separation and catch shares in the recreational fisheries. Hope this provides you the answer to your question.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

bob II said:


> I wrote the post as a personal message and it is not to be any official message from any assn I am affiliated with. This disclaimer being said, I own and operate a family charter fishing business in Panama City, been working with my family since 1965, 12 years old. I am also the President of the Panama City Boatmen Assn, Northwest Florida Director of the Florida Guides Assn, and President of the National Association of Charterboat Operators. I was simply trying to set the record straight on the issue of red snapper and the Destin Rodeo. As another piece of information, all three assns I am a member of and represent at various times are all on record as being completely opposed to sector separation and catch shares in the recreational fisheries. Hope this provides you the answer to your question.


Thanks for your support Captain


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Let us know what boat so we can steer people clear of the Anderson's


----------



## Naby (Jan 18, 2009)

I just read these threads today. I had no idea until now all of the politics, etc. behind all of this. I guess the tags are still being given out but the lottery is now free. Here is the response I received from the rodeo when I asked about the tags:

DESTIN FISHING RODEO

DCBA RED SNAPPER WEEKEND OCT 27, 28.

COOPERATIVE RESEARCH PROGRAM WITH FWC & NMFS…

The Destin Fishing Rodeo announces the DCBA red snapper weekend. The Rodeo has received 400 red snapper tags as part of a cooperative research program with the FWC. The snapper tag program will be administered and coordinated by DCBA and be open to all boats registered in the 2012 Destin Fishing Rodeo.

The details of the weekend are included below:

The tags are divided up into lots of 4.

100 tag packets with 4 tags per packet.

Boats will be chosen by lottery.

Open to Private and Charter boats. 50% of tags for private boats 50% of tags for charter/party boats

Zero cost to be entered in lottery.

If you are not planning on fishing or do not have a charter please do not enter lottery.

1 TAG PER PERSON!!! ONLY 1 PERSON CAN USE A TAG PER DAY. YOU CAN USE SECOND TAG ON THE NEXT DAY. 1 TAG PER PERSON. IF THE BOAT HAS 2 PEOPLE ON IT… YOU CAN ONLY LAND 2 SNAPPERS..1 PER PERSON.

NO MIN SIZE LIMIT ON FISH… YOU MUST USE TAG ON 1ST RED SNAPPER LANDED!!! CAPT AND CREW OF CHARTER BOATS MAY LAND SNAPPER UNDER THIS EXPIMPTED PERMIT

No red snappers will be weighed in the Rodeo competition. No red snappers will be weighed or sampled at Rodeo weigh in barge. This is a cooperative research program.

ALL BOATS MUST ENTER VIA EMAIL. INFORMATION THAT MUST BE INCLUDED IN YOUR REISTRATION IS:

CAPTAINS NAME AND ADRESS

BOAT NAME AND REGISTRATION # OR DOCUMENTATION #

CAPTAINS CELL PHONE NUMBER AND HOME NUMBER (CELL PHONE NUMBER PREFERED)

If all of your info is not included in your email registration you will not be entered in lottery!!! If all your info is included you will receive a confirmation email that says: YOU ARE ENTERED IN THE RED SNAPPER LOTTERY!!

All Boats register at … (redacted) send questions to same email…

Register from This Saturday @8 am until Thursday 25th @ 3pm.

Deadline for drawing is 3pm 25th.

Drawing @ 730 on the 25th.

Mayor Sam Seevers will conduct the lottery drawing at Destin Fishermen’s Co-op with full media presence and anyone who wants to attend. 50 lottery tickets for private boats and 50 for charter/party boats.

Telephone and email notifications go out that night, on the 25th. Tags may be picked up and signed for the night of drawing until 8 pm.. And again on Friday the 26th from 6 am until 730 pm. tags must be picked up and signed for at co-op. We will give contact phone number to lottery winners at time of notification. Anglers will call the number and DCBA rep will coordinate with them to pick up tags in Destin @ fishermen’s co-op on Friday.

Tags may be picked up by captain or designee. Tags will be signed for with phone # and email address etc. Verified with list of registered rodeo boats. Deadline to pick up tags 730 pm on Friday. 

Pick up tags, rules, copy of permit etc. Any tags not picked up by 730 pm on Friday may be reassigned to boats that did not get tags in initial lottery via 2nd lottery

Sampling at Harbor Walk dock (by the buccaneer pirate ship)... outside dock in Destin harbor and at fishing fleet marina via the 2 city transient slips (next to Destin Fire boat on west dock) There will be FWC samplers on the dock. You must bring your angler data sheets with you for each tag. You will be required to sign in that you have brought fish for sampling. After sampling the fish belong to angler and they may reclaim them with tags still in place. If it is busy at sampling station you made need to drop off your fish and paperwork and then pull back into the harbor to wait for sampling to be done.

We are asking for cooperation and patience as we work together with the FWC to put on this 1st time event.

Sampling hours same as rodeo 10-7 each day. (Sat and sun)

Tags expire 7pm on Sunday. Permit void at that time. Unused tags must be turned in by 7pm Monday at co-op to return to FWC.

Angler data must be turned in at time of sampling. ALL snappers must come to sampling station otherwise permit is in non-compliance subject to illegal possession law. You can walk your fish to sample station or come by boat.

If you come by boat you may need to wait in line for your fish to be sampled. (size/weight/sex). We are asking for cooperation and patience as we work together with the FWC to put on this 1st time event.

We have 3 main thoughts... Keep it simple, keep it transparent and keep it fair. 

The rodeo was started 64 years ago by the Destin Charter Boat fishermen and their families as a way to promote fishing in Destin. The members of the DCBA are proud to be a part of the rodeos success and to continue to promote fishing in Destin and the heritage of our fishing community.

Please email questions to (redacted).

We have 3 main thoughts... Keep it simple, keep it transparent and keep it fair. Please work with us to make this event a success!


----------



## Telum Pisces (Sep 27, 2007)

From above:

"We have 3 main thoughts... Keep it simple, keep it transparent and keep it fair."

Funny how it was not very simple, transparent, and fair before the average joe fisherman spoke up about the stupidness going on with this. Score one for the little guy. I still think it's a bunch of BS that they give out tags for a fish. One step closer to fish tags for "in season" snapper.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Wait a minute, didn't they say it was cancelled because they did not want long wait lines at the weigh in during the tournament? NOW they have brought the tags back but they are free now?????? Hummm....Guess that call the State Attorney got turned some heads down there at the rodeo....


----------



## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

Naby said:


> NO MIN SIZE LIMIT ON FISH… YOU MUST USE TAG ON 1ST RED SNAPPER LANDED!!! CAPT AND CREW OF CHARTER BOATS MAY LAND SNAPPER UNDER THIS EXPIMPTED PERMIT


What are the chances of this happening? I bet 99% of all the "first caught" snapper are 10# +.:whistling: 

Sea-r-cy


----------



## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Telum Pisces said:


> From above:
> 
> "We have 3 main thoughts... Keep it simple, keep it transparent and keep it fair."
> 
> Funny how it was not very simple, transparent, and fair before the average joe fisherman spoke up about the stupidness going on with this. Score one for the little guy. I still think it's a bunch of BS that they give out tags for a fish. One step closer to fish tags for "in season" snapper.



LOL what a joke.


----------



## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

An older commercial fella told me a couple of weeks ago, tags were coming to the recreational sector. Sounded as if he is/has been in the know with several of the "regulators".

None of this is a surprise. The fishery no longer belongs to "all the public". Now, just the chosen............. and some others, chosen through quotas. 

They will make pirates at of all us!


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Tags*

It will happen but we can have a say in how it happens if we stick together. The charter boats have shown there true colors they want their own TAC fine take it from the commercial sector.


----------



## Salty Daze (Sep 25, 2011)

lol, these rodeo people are a freaking joke! Its time to discard all of them and get new blood into the organization of the rodeo and return it to a family fun/local event! What it is sold to the touristing public as. 

Red Snapper, originally cancelled because of nothing more than long wait lines at the rodeo. So now they are going to put the wait line closer to the entrance of the harbor and really clog it up. Idiots. All for some big party boat or para-sail boat to come bailing through the entrance like they own it and not give two cents about who is in the way. And why now all of the sudden is it free? If we are being forced into a tag lottery then why does 50% of the tags have to be allocated to the charter guys. Why can't they all be put into a pot and drawn randomly. That's a true lottery. If rec guys get more tags well that is luck of the draw and vice-versa. I am beginning to really hate a lot of the charter guys that you hear are behind all this crap. It wont hurt them or bother their business but it makes me feel better to recommend charter fisherman or party boats that are not part of this scheme!

Just to clarify it even more to me and others probably, it would be nice if someone more in the know, would post the capt names and boats that are part of all this crooked mess. 

When we only have an hour or two on school nights we do go down there to see the weigh ins because i want my kids to see big fish and get excited about the sport. I cant help but look at the people on the barge and the ones running it and think what freaking morons all of them really are. 

My son pulled up a 19" trigger this weekend! He was SO excited because it was a huge fight to him (5 years old)! First words out of his mouth were "I'm going up on the stage with this one baby!" Broke my heart to tell him that he couldn't. Here is a fish that he truly caught (not some big grouper or aj off a party boat or charter boat that some little kid supposively landed) and he cant go up on stage because they took trigger out. I am sure they have some dumb political reason for that too.


----------



## Salty Daze (Sep 25, 2011)

Redfish removed too due to cheating. Another great family fun fish to catch for the kiddo's especially. People trimming tails to get them down in the slot limit. My response to that is there are only two maybe three people that see that fish. And who most certainly could tell if a tail had been trimmed. The fisherman, maybe an extra person on the barge who gutted or hung it up on scale, and Bruce. Rather than screw the entire fishing community with taking redfish out, I would have purged two thirds of the group responsible for letting the cheating happen in the first place! The other third, the fisherman, if caught cheating would never be allowed in the rodeo again if caught. 

I have to stop caring about all these idiots and just get back to fishing with my boys! In the end, all these morons will have to meet their maker and explain why they were who they were.


----------



## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

*Billin*

*Having a say sounds* "honorable and correct".......... in an uncorrupted system. At 62, I have been involved in this fishing regulation business since about 1980. It always is about "Money talks and bull shit walks". Getting fishermen to unite, has always been very difficult. Fishermen by nature, don't like sharing information with each other. They will offer each other assistant, but sharing info is a much different. This is true for Commercial Fishermen, Charter Fishermen, and all the other fellas that catch fish. If you don't catch many, then you really don't have much info to share, anyway.

Unionization doesn't come easy in the south east, either. Farmers have some co-ops, but I don't think they are large and include members scattered over hundreds of miles. I doubt that farmers owning less than 60 acres (less than $120,000 of farmland) even participate. Today, those numbers of commercial fishermen in the gulf holding snapper quotas indicates just what the govt wants. It was 800 fishermen, now it is down to 300. I'm certain that is what they will come up with for the rest of the sector. Decrease it by 5/8 sounds good and for the time being, while the regulators have not gone hungry.

They all make money with:
brides (oops, favors), 
creating more govt jobs for cronies, relatives 
side deals (now referred to as investments), 
and other creative ways, benefiting them financially. (grants??)

Their conscience is clear because "They are just trying to do the right thing for the environment". It's all a bunch crap and the folks involved are no different than those who regulate other natural resources. Wonder how it works out for the use/regulation of public lands? Timber? Coal? Natural gas? Uranium? etc?

I'll kick in $50, but to what organization? How many are there today? From Key West to New Orleans? To Brownsville? The govt likes all this having smaller (local) groups. Pit one against the other. Take a little here, take a little there........ and give everyone the "Two Step". 

Getting that $50 from 50,000 individual recreational fishermen from Key West to just Pensacola, will be GIANT accomplishment. Of course, all this is just my opinion; but I've been watching and attending meetings since 1988-2005. That includes both, the recreational and the commercial sector. 

Does anyone on this forum realize what the regulators have done to the *400miles of the East Coast of Florida?* 100,000's of *ALL *fishermen would glad to even hear about a tag. Zero red snapper harvest for every human being: zero commercial and zero recreational. That has been in affect since Jan 1 2011 thru Oct 2012. Now they are having a one/person season for two weeks. *Two weeks open, after being completely closed for 85 weeks! *Commercial fellas that are still alive after 85 weeks of tied to the dock (sounds like less than dozen) are now allowed some teeny tiny amount. Are the snapper extent? Well, hell no. They weren't extent in 2010 either. There were fewer commercial fishermen, fishing for RS and their catches had been rising each year. Recreational idiots were catching less, while good recreational fishermen were catching more and more keeper sized fish. RS snapper often bite much better late in the day and at night. If you focused on leaving at 8 and returning by 4, you were missing most of the bite. Perhaps the fish had learned they were being stalked, 8-4. They were out there, just a little harder to catch. 

Billin, Sniperpeeps, and all the rest of you fellas, I wish you good luck, but I'm afraid 80% of you fellas will end up *royally* screwed. I have my $50 ready..... and I don't even own a boat! Not sure I want to even pull in a 15+ pounder, but I would at least enjoy giving it a try a few more times!


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

can you imagine all the fish that will be fed to the dolphins when you have a few tags to fill a year.


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Capt Droot*

very well said sad but all true


----------



## Captdroot (Jan 18, 2012)

*bigrick*

And the environmentalist that have super large influence (Sierra Club, PEW, and others) over the govt regulators will say,"We have to save those starving marine mammals. You're not a starving **** sapien, are you?"

That is how this whole money tree grows and grows and......... 

This fishery business is all about politics. To bad the Federal Reserve can't print more red snapper......... but then they would want more and more Dolphins! 

*The folks on the east coast never had a chance for "tag lotteries."* They simply shut down everything. There are *certain months out of the year that you are not allowed keep a single: mingo (beeliner), red snapper, black sea bass, white snapper (red porgy), AJ, red or gag grouper, and almost every other fish in the offshore marine habitat.* During those months, that only leaves a few pelagic species that might be in the area at that time. Charter boats have disappeared. Head boats are all shark fishing, sight seeing, or out of business. Private offshore boat owners are stuck fishing in the inlets, or trolling for offshore pelagic species, or have sold there 20ft+ boats. These regulations run north to Cape Look Out, NC, which is 60 miles south of Cape Hatteras. That is all of NOAA's South Eastern Atlantic Marine Fisheries jurisdiction. A coastline that spans over 1200 miles and a marine area that is more than 50,000 sqmi. No 20 lb red snapper left out there......... anywhere! Yep, that was said by a NOAA research scientist in 2009??? or 2010.

An old friend of mine has gone out during this recreational, one per person, 14 day season. Each trip, their fish averaged 16lbs apiece! Bet no one even knows what they were catching! What a friggin joke!


----------

