# Bad neighbors - think they own the water



## boatnbob (May 31, 2009)

My bud and I were out throwing the net this AM in Poly Isles around 9am. He has his commercial license, but we were just throwing for recreation. I don't have a commercial license. 

Anyway, we were going down a canal in Poly Isles. I have two houses on the canals and am a member of the HOA. This young guy, around 30 comes barreling out onto his dock and asks us what we are doing.  Before we can answer he tells us this is private property on a private canal. Now I get pretty steamed and ask him how long he has lived there. He starts running his mouth about who lives where, the law... I told him if we were in the wrong, call the law. I was born here and pretty much raised here. I have heard of encounters like this, but when it happens to you, it brings a whole new perspective.

We motored off and returned to my dock. We had just been talking about some of the self appointed water police in our area, and this guys shows up. We had a good time up until that point. We were quiet except for the dogs barking in the neighborhod. Sort of spoiled my outing. Do you guys run into this much? Am I too thin skinned? I am thinking of mounting a GoPro camera and hitting the canal again just to film this guy in action, then post it for all to see :whistling:

Cheers,

Bob


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## TailRazor (Apr 25, 2011)

Definitely mount up and film it, we could use a good laugh. He must be a rent a cop at night.


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

this general subject came up from the other perspective recently at the beginning of gigging season on flounder, guy was complaining about noise violations around his dock late at night from rednecked gigging rigs clamoring around with shoddy gen sets that were waking his whole family up from a dead sleep. i have the opinion from living on my boat that there is a certian level of acceptability that comes from living on the water, and this guy you're talking about needs to learn that, he doesnt own the water, he doesnt even have the right to kick people off his dock, the only thing he owns is the land above the water line, i know a guy that got a jackass like this arrested for harassing a boater in distress when he had a major exhaust system failure and began taking on water in bayou chico so he moored to a (not going to specify) dock and elicted repairs, the home owner approached and boarded the boat with a shotgun demanding that they move along, the coast guard and the marine patrol got involved and told the cops that showed up what was going to happen, not a bright move by the homeowner.


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## naclh2oDave (Apr 8, 2008)

Not to offend you, but yes, I think that you are too thinned skinned. I get that you were enjoying your peaceful endeavor and that this guy's interruption kinda spoiled it for you, but you gotta let that kind of thing run off your back. Tell him to shut up, laugh at him and keep on keeping on. He is the one with the issues, don't let his bad attitude ruin your day.


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## coolbluestreak (Jun 27, 2011)

For every good home owner there is a bad one.
For every honest fisherman there is a bad one.

it's easy to see both sides of the story.


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## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

*We all encounter attitudes of all types, every day. *

*When a bad one comes along, I think of it just as a good one.*

*Just sit back and watch the show of life before you, like a movie, and enjoy the entertainment, with a smile.*

*I think intermission is over now, go throw that net again for "Mad Man on a Canal II"*

*Peace*


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

naclh2oDave said:


> Not to offend you, but yes, I think that you are too thinned skinned. I get that you were enjoying your peaceful endeavor and that this guy's interruption kinda spoiled it for you, but you gotta let that kind of thing run off your back. Tell him to shut up, laugh at him and keep on keeping on. He is the one with the issues, don't let his bad attitude ruin your day.


I agree completely. You should have laughed and said "So, you think you own the water? Go call the cops, I'll wait" and then thrown out an anchor.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

I think I'd have tied up to his dock and tossed out a line...without a word said. Let him call the cops and make a fool of himself.


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## VOLMAN (Sep 3, 2009)

I grew up in East Tn Mtns. Used to wade fish creeks rivers for trout all the time. Had more than 1 jackass come out raise a ruckus about trespassing. Even waited on one old koot to get the law there while steady catching fish. Warden and deputy both advised as long as our feet were wet , weren't breaking the law at all


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## flukedaddy (Apr 11, 2009)

Same over by Shorline park, I used to wade all the time up to deer point and some homeowners didnt like me in there backyard I informed them that it was as much mine as theirs and as long as you walk below the high tide mark its public property.


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## jhall (Oct 8, 2007)

Which canal where u on. I live over there too


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

A lot of these homeowners don't realize it's against the law to harass anyone fishing around their docks. Florida Statue 379.105

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...105&URL=0300-0399/0379/Sections/0379.105.html


Here is a article link about it.

http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/waterways-belong-public


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## MerkDeez (Nov 20, 2011)

Here in Pensacola we do not deal with the stolen boats and electronics as much as S. FL, I would have advised him that I live in that canal and you we no one to worry about.. Those assholes may some day catch or detour someone in the act


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## boatnbob (May 31, 2009)

*A lot of good suggestions*

More to follow. I can't ID the exact canal until I run down it again. It is two over from Tim's S's I believe. I will have the GoPro the next encounter that occurs. Shame as I have owned my property for over 20 years and lived on it for 11 and only run into mostly nice people in the neighborhood. I run a quiet Carolina Skiff - no blaring radio, no loud 2 stroke (no offense intended), and keep our voices down. It certainly isn't rigged for commercial operations (high bow rail for floundering)...

I am not looking for a fight, but this cat needs a bit of education which is what I told him. He specifically asked us if we were commercial fisherman. I told him it made no difference. This was public water and he didn't own it. I laughed at him as he stated it was private property and left as his boyfriend came out yapping. I should have told him to take some Midol. The odd part was we had already run to the end of the canal and were exiting at a slow pace. Just chillin minding our own business.

As for anchoring up or tying up, not going to be that provocative. Too many people with guns who might not think straight when they are mad! I will continue motoring by but enjoy filming his antics. Heck, I was willing to even offer him a mess of mullet if he wanted some until he started yelling at us. Some people! 

Thanks for the various advice. Skin being thickened! Happy fishing!

Bob


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

rufus1138 said:


> he doesnt own the water, he doesnt even have the right to kick people off his dock, the only thing he owns is the land above the water line,


True, he does not own the water
but I am pretty sure that he does own his dock and can kick you off as well as prevent you from tying up to his dock. As long as it is not an emergency.
But if your wade fishing or walking the shoreline, you are allowed to traverse over any private structure to get to the other side.

Can not assume that all property lines stop at the waters edge or at the mean high tide line either. Especially where the waterway is created by man.
Some property lines go to the center of the canal and can thus render a wade fisherman a trespasser. There are some properties on the ICW near Galvez Landing where the property lines goes to the center of the ICW.
But that does not effect those afloat on the water above those submerged private lands.


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## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Nothing worse than a HOA cowboy. Id shoot myself before I'd live in a community full of snobs like that.


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## asago (Nov 11, 2008)

That's unfortunate - and I wish the folks like that in this neighborhood would chill out. I also live in Poly Isle and like to watch the mullet guys and rec. fishermen go by. When I first moved we used to ride the canals and stop at various folks houses and meet new people, have a beer, and whatnot... anyone traveling down my canal past my house is liable to be welcomed to have a stop and drink a few beers and talk fishin. Appreciation for a resource starts with usage of it - personally I like to see folks fishing the canals.


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

johnsonbeachbum said:


> True, he does not own the water
> but I am pretty sure that he does own his dock and can kick you off as well as prevent you from tying up to his dock. As long as it is not an emergency.
> But if your wade fishing or walking the shoreline, you are allowed to traverse over any private structure to get to the other side.
> 
> ...



its very rare that waterfront property of any kind will have privacy jurisdiction over a dock wether they built it or not, most home owners have been lied to and think they do but the only thing you could get in trouble for is trespassing to access the dock, if you waded up and stood on the dock to sightfish you would most likely be completely legal, like i said rare cases exist, i doubt this guy really owns that dock outboard of the mean tide line.


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## johnsonbeachbum (Oct 1, 2007)

rufus1138 said:


> its very rare that waterfront property of any kind will have privacy jurisdiction over a dock wether they built it or not, most home owners have been lied to and think they do but the only thing you could get in trouble for is trespassing to access the dock, if you waded up and stood on the dock to sightfish you would most likely be completely legal, like i said rare cases exist, i doubt this guy really owns that dock outboard of the mean tide line.


Most docks attached to private property are also private property.
Thus unauthorized persons are subject to trespassing charges.
This pretty much explains it:
http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/D49AFA9C373087E98525635500542DB8

If you build a pier or dock, it does not become public property just because it is in public water.

an email I got from From December of 2004:

Our program would be responsible for authorizing seawalls and piers. 
For the most part, we require seawalls to be placed along the current high water line
which may or may not represent the boundary between private property and
sovereignty submerged lands. 
Our rules do not require that individuals place walkovers to facilitate access by the general public. 
As far as what constitutes trespassing, as long as you walked below the mean high water line, you would not be trespassing on private property. 
Sometimes the mean high water line is at the current shoreline but it can also be out in the water due to erosion. 
It takes a registered surveyor to determine the location. 
I believe that the Santa Rosa Island Authority for Pensacola Beach
requires walkovers to be constructed so access is not blocked but I am
unaware of any such requirement in other Counties so you may want to contact
you local government to see.

Amy Porto
Submerged Lands & Environmental Resources Program
[email protected]

And from another forum:
Officer Summers has some advice for people on the water when these situations arise.
“Don’t get into a big confrontation,” he cautions. “What we recommend you do is to call the FWC Wildlife Alert hotline at (888) 404-3922, anytime, day or night. We want people to report these things. We can’t help if we don’t know about it.”

He advises that boaters and fishermen know the facts about what they can and can’t do near a homeowner’s property. Homeowners have rights, too.
“You can’t tie up on somebody’s dock and start fishing,” he said “And you can’t get out and walk on their dock because it’s private property — that’s trespassing


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## boatnbob (May 31, 2009)

*Agree Asago*

I live down on a corner (NE) with the only side by side double boat lift. Just look for the red Mastercraft and CS in the double boat lift. We are like you and have made friends cruising around. That is how I met the guy who was on my boat today. Just chatted it up with him when he was commercially fishing and now a long time friend who hooks me up with fish when I can't catch any :thumbup:

In regards to property lines, you are partially correct. My property line actually extends out into the canal another 60' or so on one side, and 80 or so on the other side. I fully understand property lines, above and under the water. I don't own the water, just the land under it - which DEP and the state will not let you recover without considerable hassle. 

I would never step on someone elses dock without an invite. Don't want to go through the trouble with the law or the legal definition. I respect other's property and would like the same treatment. Someone on my dock may be up to no good or is either in distress, and I will render aide as I have done before to those in distress. I keep my stuff locked up always. Just don't need to present any temptation. 

Johnsonbeachbum - excellent reference and sourcing. Thank you. Figured it was pretty much as you pointed out. Just to reiterate, I was in my boat idling back out of the canal in no way attached, anchored, or near this guys dock. He just plowed out onto his dock like the rest of the dogs in the neighborhood to bark at me. At least the dogs wag their tails  

Asago, pull up some time and I will serve you a cool one.

Cheers,

Bob


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## flfisher (Dec 18, 2012)

I used to shine and gig docks back in the day and had a guy shoot in out direction, when we got back to our dock we called the police and took the coast guard to his house.. I think he got the point


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## coin op repair man (Aug 28, 2012)

boatnbob said:


> More to follow. I can't ID the exact canal until I run down it again. It is two over from Tim's S's I believe. I will have the GoPro the next encounter that occurs. Shame as I have owned my property for over 20 years and lived on it for 11 and only run into mostly nice people in the neighborhood. I run a quiet Carolina Skiff - no blaring radio, no loud 2 stroke (no offense intended), and keep our voices down. It certainly isn't rigged for commercial operations (high bow rail for floundering)...
> 
> I am not looking for a fight, but this cat needs a bit of education which is what I told him. He specifically asked us if we were commercial fisherman. I told him it made no difference. This was public water and he didn't own it. I laughed at him as he stated it was private property and left as his boyfriend came out yapping. I should have told him to take some Midol. The odd part was we had already run to the end of the canal and were exiting at a slow pace. Just chillin minding our own business.
> 
> ...


Offer a mess of mullet? Now had you offered him a mess of slippery dick........it would have been a joyful situation:laughing: Nothing to see here, move along.


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## barefoot (Nov 3, 2011)

Yeah, I run into folks like this...I've had men holler at me while dock fishing...there's one guy that will come out and turn his dock lights off every time I start fishing his dock...lol, I just sit there and continue to catch "HIS" fish...ha ha


DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer...but what all you guys are actually referring to is called "Littoral Rights". Littoral Rights are "rights concerning properties abutting an ocean, sea or lake rather than a river or stream (riparian). Littoral rights are usually concerned with the use and enjoyment of the shore."


The operative word here is "SHORE". Anyone can fish around docks. Not even some of our over-the-top HOA’s can derail this legal right.


Several years ago, beach home owners tried to post signs, tape-off their properties so people couldn't walk on the beach in front of them. The ASSUMED the beach was theirs also and by gawd no one was gonna walk on my beach...


Next time...tell him to go ahead and call the cops...then anchor and wait for them.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

Hey we had duck hunters rattling steel shot off our roofs a few yards from a state bird sanctuary. Public waters so no foul. (Or fowl they couldn't shoot)


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## goheel (Feb 3, 2011)

Just from a homeowner's point of view, I had some guy wade fishing in the back of my house last summer. Came out later on the day and there were a bunch of empty beer cans in the water. Stuff like that pisses me off.


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## barefoot (Nov 3, 2011)

goheel said:


> Just from a homeowner's point of view, I had some guy wade fishing in the back of my house last summer. Came out later on the day and there were a bunch of empty beer cans in the water. Stuff like that pisses me off.


Rightfully so, that's littering and comes w/ a big fine...next time photgraph him and turn him in...no use for litter bugs...our area is just to pretty for lazy asses to junk it up.


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## Buckyt (Oct 1, 2007)

Thank God for the assholes of the world, because they make us look better!


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## devinsdad (Mar 31, 2010)

Years ago, and I mean back in the mid '80's, tseveral people who owned waterfront homes fromShoreline Park west to Deep Point used to complain about people just walking the shoreline. It got so bad that the Gulf Breeze PD was actually arresting people for doing so. Got to be a pretty big deal and started a movement to the point where hundreds of people were walking the shoreline and getting harrassed by GBPD.

Eventually some took it to court and a judge threw everything out and said anyone has the right to walk the shoreline and over or under a private pier to continue their access on public land. Made the homeowners and the GBPD look like total asshats.


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## rufus1138 (Oct 29, 2012)

^^this, recently we went to launch yaks into big lagoon (new years day) stopped and asked a guy working for lost key yacht club if we could launch from their beach and park in the marina office parking lot, everything was cool and we proceeded to unload, about 5 minutes into this process people start coming out of the condos and quizzing us on whether or not we live there and informing us in the most pompus and offensive attitude i can imagine that its private property and that we will be arrested when we return and find our vehicles towed and our yaks impounded. we ignored them and launched anyway, came back to a peaceful sunset. people just seem to want to bluster and posture to see if the threat of cops will make people run away in fear.


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## catdad100 (Nov 17, 2009)

Some years back was waiting our turn at the boat ramp(Dog Island area) after getting a limit of scallops when I was approached by a man who had his wife and kids with him and he enquried.Yall been scalloping? Yes.Yall get any? Yes we got our limit. Then he said where and I pointed to the general direction and he said just what I thought and said we probably got them out of a closed area and started cussing and saying he lived on water in that area and people like us had no right being there,blah,blah,blah.His poor wife kept telling him to shut up,and her and the kid looked so embarassed. You just wonder how people like that have made it through life and how many butt kickings he must have recieved along the way.


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## southern yakker (Jun 25, 2012)

barefoot said:


> Yeah, I run into folks like this...I've had men holler at me while dock fishing...there's one guy that will come out and turn his dock lights off every time I start fishing his dock...lol, I just sit there and continue to catch "HIS" fish...ha ha
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer...but what all you guys are actually referring to is called "Littoral Rights". Littoral Rights are "rights concerning properties abutting an ocean, sea or lake rather than a river or stream (riparian). Littoral rights are usually concerned with the use and enjoyment of the shore."
> ...


By any chance did the guy that turn his dock light off live on bayou chico? Ran into the same problem in chico


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## barefoot (Nov 3, 2011)

Lol...nope this is on Blackwater.


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## BigSlick (Jun 13, 2010)

rufus1138 said:


> ^^this, recently we went to launch yaks into big lagoon (new years day) stopped and asked a guy working for lost key yacht club if we could launch from their beach and park in the marina office parking lot, everything was cool and we proceeded to unload, about 5 minutes into this process people start coming out of the condos and quizzing us on whether or not we live there and informing us in the most pompus and offensive attitude i can imagine that its private property and that we will be arrested when we return and find our vehicles towed and our yaks impounded. we ignored them and launched anyway, came back to a peaceful sunset. people just seem to want to bluster and posture to see if the threat of cops will make people run away in fear.


Was a skinny old white guy? Reason I ask Is because I live there. From what I hear, nobody owns that lil beach down there so anybody can use it. Seems like most of the people that live here are a little stuck up. They gave me the same attitude when I pulled my boat up to that beach and didnt know I lived there.


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## Brew23SeaHunt (Oct 5, 2009)

*poly isles run in*

BoatNBob,
I live on one of the canals and recently had a run in with someone on the same canal. After fixing a part on my boat, we went to test it and while driving by his dock I commented that he had a nice dock and cover over it. He immediately starting quizzing as to what we were doing and acting like he was the EPA/owner of the canals. After a few more comments from the 'owner of the canal', I quickly lost my cool and let him know what I thought. Well now whenever I cruise by his dock he just stares (and I stare harder back). I'll save you from the conversation, but take home is that it's just ridiculous that he just immediately accused and did not ask. I don't understand why people have to be assholes...I mean, you live on the water (or very near)....relax, and enjoy life. thats my 2 cents. 
ps...I think I've seen your 2 boats while canal cruising, nice set up!:thumbsup:


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## oldflathead (Oct 3, 2007)

*Not all of us are Alpha Hotels*



Brew23SeaHunt said:


> BoatNBob,
> I don't understand why people have to be assholes...I mean, you live on the water (or very near)....relax, and enjoy life. thats my 2 cents.


I feel so blessed that I live on the water and have my own dock on Bayou Chico. I am happy and am enjoying life, even with my physical disabilities, it is wonderful to wake up each day as I approach 3/4's of a century in age and look at at our beautiful bayou, the birds, squirrels, boats, (I love boats) and my neighbors. 

I love watching folks throwing their cast nets from the bows of their boats. Yesterday, Sunday, three neighbors were sailing their small sailboats back and forth - beautiful.

Recently a guys transmission failed as he came by our place. I went out and towed him to my dock until he can get it fixed.
I allowed local kids to fish from my dock until they became alpha hotels, did not clean up after themselves and cast into the side of my boats. They are banned.
Over the years I have offered to set my pinfish trap for any of you who asked. I did not even ask for anything, well maybe if you got too many fish...
I have invited a local crab fisherman to set his traps by my dock.
When I am outside and see a boat passing, I smile and wave.

I believe in "Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you." 

Tom


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## Emerald Ghost (Mar 11, 2008)

oldflathead said:


> I feel so blessed that I live on the water and have my own dock on Bayou Chico. I am happy and am enjoying life, even with my physical disabilities, it is wonderful to wake up each day as I approach 3/4's of a century in age and look at at our beautiful bayou, the birds, squirrels, boats, (I love boats) and my neighbors.
> 
> I love watching folks throwing their cast nets from the bows of their boats. Yesterday, Sunday, three neighbors were sailing their small sailboats back and forth - beautiful.
> 
> ...


---------------------------------------------------------------------
A wise man you are, Tom.
Too many just don't get it.


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## Breeze Fabricators (Oct 2, 2007)

*Fishin'*

Call me ahead of time and I'll make sure the dock light is on. Might walk down drink a beer and shoot the s#@t with you will you fish. Sorry 'bout the a-holes.


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## boatnbob (May 31, 2009)

*Thanks All*

Tim, I don't think the light is ever off! You are a tribute to the subdivision. BTW, great work on the house with the outside remodel. Now lets see some shrimp being brought in on that boat!

I like the comment reference allowing kids using the dock.... I was fortunate enough to be able to enjoy the same treatment growing up. There was a taxidermist over in GB proper that lived on Dead Man's bayou. I think it was on Highpoint. We would come down and join the McNamara clan and have a great summer together. He would let us crab and enjoy the water off his property and dock, despite being little guys. I remember all those times very fondly. He showed us his work and exposed us to game mounts we would only see in a museum. Mr. Anderson was a great guy. Of course, we kids didn't behave like Alpha Hotels either. If we got out of line, it was a belt to the behind and being marched back over to apologize for anything we did wrong. We hadn't gotten that old to be bad yet! We always had a grand time. You don't see that much anymore. 

Tim, will do. I just got back in town from my granddaughters 2 year birthday. I should be on the canals hopefully again in a few days. We will see if this guy shows up again. Video camera will be prepared  

It wouldn't bother me to not see him though. The canals are a pleasant area to cruise back and forth just visiting and saying hello to neighbors. I am sure he would treat me differently in my other boat. Funny how rain slickers and a Carolina Skiff make me a commercial fisherman. If he only knew! 

To all the guys who treat others out there respectfully (property owners and fisherman) my thanks to you all. I like the thought of promoting the water and our blessing being able to afford to live on it. 

Kind regards to all,

Bob


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## ironman (Oct 18, 2007)

I have had people at Condos and Marinas come out and say we couldn't fish around their docks. I was always under the assumption that if you could reach it by boat you could fish it.


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