# Possible lower unit problem advise needed.



## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

I have a 2003 Yamaha 115 and i went to change the lower unit gear oil and from what I have heard, what came out did not give me a warm fuzzy. Take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think. I'm thinking I'm about to have to spend some money!! Thank you!

ps... I changed it last year, and haven't had the boat in the water since probably late August though I have started the motor about every 2 weeks. Have owned the boat (17 Cape Horn)a little over 2 years and haven't had any problems with the motor. Thank again.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Probably nothing pour all of the oil in a clear glass container and let it set overnite. Then check for water in the bottom next day.


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## fish4life (Mar 3, 2008)

*Livingston marine*

x2 on what sealark said. And also was there and metal chuncks on your drain screw? Give me a call if you would like me to look at it for you.

Thanks Shane
850-375-0435


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks Sealark & Shane, gave me some hope..... drained oil into a clear plastic container and I'll take a look at it in the morning. And there was only a litle bit of oily dust on the drain screw. Not that it would matter but I just greased my prop shaft and the seal was dry as a bone... thanks gentlemen and I will let you know what I find tomorrow. I guess if there is water in the oil I may need you to look at it Shane but I live in Navarre.. Thanks again!


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## TheCaptKen (Mar 14, 2011)

The water will not separate from the synthetic gear oil unless you wait a very long time. Get someone to pressure/vacuum test the unit and that will tell you instantly if you have a problem.


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## fish4life (Mar 3, 2008)

*Livingston marine*

Capt ken is right I should have noticed the synthetic lube. it will take a long time. didn't you say that you haven't had it in the water since you changed it? I will pressure check it as well I am a mobile mech and will come to you. just give me a call in advance so i can get you on the list.

Thanks Shane
850-375-0435


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## Deeplines (Sep 28, 2007)

Like stated above, Have someone pressure check your seals. I had Kenny do mine last year. Until then for 4 years I ran mine with water getting into the lower unit. I would change the oil every 3 trips out to the edge, which was about every 6 months. 

Not saying thats what I suggest just letting you know it's not the end of the world. In the long run it may have cost me more but that was all I could afford at the time. So yes, I ran my boat with a leaking lower unit for 4 years and no problems but I did change the oil regular. It looked a heck of a lot worse then what yours does. Mine would be almost white completely. I also used reg. oil, I had bought a 5 gal jug from NAPA. When I ran out I took it in to get fixed. LOL!!!


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

All, any thoughts after reading this is appreciated.

-Okay, I see no seperation (water/oil) this morning but the gear oil that was in it is Evinrude/Johnson HPF XR Synthetic Blend.
-Capt Ken, how long is a very long time to see the seperation?
-Fish4Life, I changed the gear case oil about 1 year ago and ran probably 75-100 hours on it with this oil.
-Deeplines, thanks for that info. I was wondering if I could fill it back up and take it out and just change it often. If you ran to the edge a few time I guess I can if I can't get it fixed immediately.

Thank you all for your help. As always, a great source of info from great people! Thanks again!


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## DOUBLE "D" & LV (Oct 2, 2007)

Your drive shaft seals are the most likely culprits. When we do a lower unit service we pressure check them and that is the most common item found. Whether you are inn the water or on the flusher, you will have water seepage get into the gear lube. You will need to check the prop shaft seals for fishing line, but pressure checking the unit will tell where the leak is. It is not a major expense to replace the drive shaft seals. Will do a water pump at the same time.


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## BlaineAtk (Jun 8, 2010)

Wirelessly posted

I have a 17 Cape Horn as well and the first time I changed my foot oil so to speak, nothing but water came out. No oil AT ALL. I put oil in it and ran it for a year checked it again and the oil stayed in it. No idea what the deal was but apparently it wa full of water from the previous owner and I ran it like that for a good while with no apparent issues. Who knows, maybe I'm lucky or maybe it just had a really good flow of constant water (it came out clean and clear with no metal) oh well.


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

llll


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

Sir,
 Your response is very interesting to me. Last summer I took my boat in to have the impeller changed and determine the source of a random high pitch squeal. It turned out to be a bearing/bushing that’s on the drive shaft. So along with the impeller the water pump, the bushing was changed (the high pitch squeal came back within a few hours on the water so I still don’t know what’s causing that). Could this maintenance have anything to do with my issue now with the possible leak? I did re-lube my prop shaft yesterday and there was no fishing line tangled in there and the seal was pretty much dry. Thanks so much!







DOUBLE "D" & LV said:


> Your drive shaft seals are the most likely culprits. When we do a lower unit service we pressure check them and that is the most common item found. Whether you are inn the water or on the flusher, you will have water seepage get into the gear lube. You will need to check the prop shaft seals for fishing line, but pressure checking the unit will tell where the leak is. It is not a major expense to replace the drive shaft seals. Will do a water pump at the same time.


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## DOUBLE "D" & LV (Oct 2, 2007)

If the drive shaft were loose in the bushing, it would have more side to side play and the cause the drive shaft seals to leak more if they were weak. That is usually not the case, it is just weak seals. Part of any service having to do with the lower unit should include a pressure check for this reason. I do not know of many that do this. Also, the drive shaft seal cover should be lifted to inspect the seals and put grease on them. (Also not many people do this) If a good grease was not used on the drive shaft, the contact area at the bushing would become dry quickly and can make the squealing noise come back quickly. This is one of the maintenance points when the lower unit is dropped for service. (That may take care of the squealing. Another area that makes noise on those is the balance shafts on the powerhead. Just have to listen for where it is coming from.)


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

I talked to a friend of mine at work and he asked if I had changed the gaskets on the drain and fill plugs when I changed the gear oil last time. Well I hadn’t. And I had heard in the past to change those every time!! Since I bought the boat 2.5 years ago, and the motor only had 125 hrs on it when I bought it (250 now), there is a chance that the drain and fill plug gaskets on it are original (2003 yamaha) and since I have put anywhere from 70 -100 hours on it since I changed the gear oil, and the oil I just took out wasn’t completely clouded over, I’m thinking the leak is very minimal. What I am thinking I am going to do is get new gaskets, fill it up, run it for probably close to 50 hours, and change it again and see how it looks. I’d hate to spend a lot of money, and waste anyones time, and it turns out it’s a gasket probem!! Your thoughts on the likelihood of this?


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## Xpac (Jun 22, 2011)

When I bought my F225 over 2 years ago I noticed the same milky discoloration during my first gear lube change. I changed the drain plug gasket and filled it up again and repeat every time I change the oil (semi annually or roughly 50hrs) and I haven’t seen any discoloration since. Hopefully you’ll have the same luck.
As for the squeaking noise, mine did the same so just like the others said; put grease in and around the bushing. I did this last year when I changed the water pump and I haven’t heard it since. Some of the how-to videos I watched stressed not to get grease on the tip of the drive shaft but they didn’t say why. Maybe someone can comment on that. 
Good luck


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

Thank you Xpac, I'm going to try the new gaskets/washers. I don't have the confidence to drop the lower unit to grease the bushings at this point. Is there a youtube video you recommend that show that? Thank you for taking the time to reply as well everyone else!


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## DOUBLE "D" & LV (Oct 2, 2007)

Good place to start. I assume sometimes that things are done and they are not. Start with the simple stuff.


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## Deeplines (Sep 28, 2007)

Dang, I didn't even think about your Gasket either. When you recheck it no need to waste all that oil. You should know pretty quick if water is in it, especially if you are using that synthetic oil. That stuff is pricey isn't it?

If you don't see any discoloration just put the plug back in and top it back off. Should save a you a few bucks that doesn't need to be wasted. 

Don't forget that just because a little is in there it could be what was in there. You should be able to tell if it is less then last time. 

Good luck.


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## Xpac (Jun 22, 2011)

Good idea Deeplines. You can spot check the fluid every once and a while. 

Here's a good water pump video. This is for a Yam F200. It's probably very similar to your engine. What i did was print out a schematic of my lower from boats.net and watch the video. There may be minor differences in parts but it covers the basic process. If you decide to change your water pump yourself let me know and i can give you some good tips.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/bizhouse/videos/2/


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

Here are a few pictures of the Synthetic blend that came out of the lower unit. The oil is on top and I'm not sure what settled to the bottom. The plastic container I put it in did has some dust and minor particles in the bottom of it so I thought it may have been some sort of chemical reation.... yeah, a stretch I kow..... And I mean dust, not an eighth of an inch of something, just a very small amount. So, since water rises, any clue what this junk is on the bottom. Like I said earlier, the bottom drain plug only had a little "dust" sludge on it, no chunks of anything. I did refill the gear box with nonsynthetic Yahama gear oil today(with new washers). So unless I hear different I am going to stick with my plan to fun it for 30 or 40 hours and check it again. Your comments are much appreciated, both past and future! Oh, the guy at Sunrise Marine today told me my Yahama 115 4 stroke did not have a water pump.... that the impeller was the water pump...... a little confused on that. Thanks again gentlemen!!!!!


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

Deeplines said:


> Dang, I didn't even think about your Gasket either. When you recheck it no need to waste all that oil. You should know pretty quick if water is in it, especially if you are using that synthetic oil. That stuff is pricey isn't it?
> 
> If you don't see any discoloration just put the plug back in and top it back off. Should save a you a few bucks that doesn't need to be wasted.
> 
> ...


Got it! Thanks!!


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## MyTimeToPlay! (Feb 11, 2011)

Xpac said:


> Good idea Deeplines. You can spot check the fluid every once and a while.
> 
> Here's a good water pump video. This is for a Yam F200. It's probably very similar to your engine. What i did was print out a schematic of my lower from boats.net and watch the video. There may be minor differences in parts but it covers the basic process. If you decide to change your water pump yourself let me know and i can give you some good tips.
> 
> http://www.viddler.com/explore/bizhouse/videos/2/


Thanks! Hopefully I can find a video on this site to change my impeller next time! Haven't had the chance to view this viedo but will. I can do most anything if I have seen it done once! Thanks again!


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## fish4life (Mar 3, 2008)

*Livingston marine*

So, since water rises, any clue what this junk is on the bottom. 

water will sink not rise.

Thanks Shane
850-375-0435


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## Xpac (Jun 22, 2011)

Regarding the water pump, take a look at this image for the Yam 115 4-stroke:

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Y...troke/F115TJR/LOWER CASING DRIVE 1/parts.html

To clarify the terminology; the impeller #28 is part of an assembly that makes up the "water pump" (items 24 down to 31 on the upper right side). Typically you change items (27, 26, 28 and 31) and the others are optional if they look like they need replacement.

As for the gear lube, I've never seen it look like that before. I use Quicksilver gear lube which is non-synth so I'm not sure if the synthetic makes it look that way or not. Maybe run your new lube for a trip or two and take a look at it again.


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