# Almost drowned today on my canoe thanks to a boater



## stevesmi (Mar 15, 2012)

was fishing out there on my canoe off fort pickens near the inlet. was having a tough day but it almost got worse. had my fishing gear ($75 penn reel with a nice rod), a small cooler full of food and ice, and my keys.. 

well some prick comes by on his boat close to me, bunch of drunks and they caused me to tip me over.. then I hear them laughing as like pussies they motored away leaving me in big trouble... 

my rod was gone, sunk to the bottom.. was trying my best to get the canoe back over for about 20 minutes in 8 foot of water. my keys were gone, so i had to pay for them to come out and break into my car to get my spare key and they damaged the door and window in the process. so I lost a nice cooler, penn reel and rod, food/drinks, and had to pay for them to get into my car and they made damage.. i would say easy $300 they cost me today plus having to wait 2 hours for the guy to show up

what a day..


----------



## oxbeast1210 (Jun 21, 2010)

sorry to hear that what a shame!


for once works sounds better then someones fishing trip!


----------



## Flounderpounder (Oct 3, 2007)

That sucks! Glad you are OK, though! As much as I love it here, we sure do have our share of A-holes. Not sure I'd canoe that area BECAUSE of the jerks, sorry to say.


----------



## BigSlick (Jun 13, 2010)

That sucks man. There are some real douchebags out there.


----------



## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

A description of the boat, make, model, engine type, T-top color, etc. would go along way tward identifying the perps, I believe leaving the scene of an accident on the water is the same as on the street.


----------



## BlackJeep (Jun 13, 2010)

That sucks sorry to hear that. No shortage of pricks out there, that's for sure. I know we all do with what we can, I'm a kayak guy but I don't know that I'd be a canoe guy on big water with the type of wake that can be out there sometimes.


----------



## ctgalloway21 (Jun 25, 2012)

I got waked by a jetski in my kayak on Weiss lake recently. They did it on purpose.


----------



## Kayakbob (Dec 18, 2011)

What a shame. I had to get me a kayak that would not tip over to fish in Fish River in Alabama because boats just fly right by. If you dont point your boat into the wave you will tip over.

You can put out riggers on our canoe as I did. I made mine out of Lobster floats two on each side. Keeps me from tiping over and you can stand up and fly fish and not worry about tiping over.

I feel your pain. Hopefully others will read this and be more kind to kayak and canoe fisherman.


----------



## Patriot (Jun 4, 2009)

Sorry to hear that. Dangerous situation. What you got was bad and thankfullly nothing worse happened.

Did you happen to get a vessel name or registration number?

How about a good description of boat.

Which way did they go?

The reason I ask in the forum can help you find these idiots. You'd be surprised at the PFF web when it comes to hunting down a crappy boater, thief, etc,etc.


----------



## jakec (Oct 14, 2010)

glad you made it out alive. sucks you cant enjoy a day on the water without some asshole ruining it like this. theyll need something one day and hopefully theyll get what they got coming.


Patriot said:


> You'd be surprised at the PFF web when it comes to hunting down a crappy boater, thief, etc,etc.


 aint that the truth pff reaches far and wide!


----------



## stevesmi (Mar 15, 2012)

guys I was in the water half way down, all i heard was laughing and then next thing I know i am in the water.. I was really more freaked out about losing my keys than anything. a lesson for anyone that goes out there keep your keys hooked up to your shorts and anything else that you cannot afford to lose.. a shame about losing that expensive reel. 

I'm a very experiencing canoer and thankfully i was able to get that thing tipped back over or else I could of easily drowned

don't think even if i got their registration it would make a difference, they will probably claim they didn't do anything and that it was the waves fault

and yes you all are right i'm never canoeing there again..


----------



## Jason (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah....that really sucks!!! Give a better description of the jack-arses!!!!


----------



## Deep South (Oct 8, 2007)

Glad you are ok and sorry you lost stuff. The boat was definitely wrong for navigating to close and causing a dangerous situation that could have killed someone. On the other hand, the pass is no place for a canoe. A 50' sport fisher driving 200 yards away could have the same effect.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

How close can you estimate to the spot you tipped over at? Were you close to anything perminent? Like jetties if you can get close the reel and heavy sinking stuff could be found.


----------



## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

*If you google Florida Statute - Damage by Boat Wake, you will see that the operator is guilty of Reckless operation.

If you had the identity of the operator, you could file a complaint accordingly.

Then file for reconciliation with the prosecuting attorney, and the at fault operator would have to render payment to you for damages, and pay a hefty fine at the end of the day.

I know of someone who got pinched doing this exact thing, however, he did not see the vessel he swamped.

Never-the-less, he still had to pay and pay.

FYI*


----------



## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

sealark said:


> How close can you estimate to the spot you tipped over at? Were you close to anything perminent? Like jetties if you can get close the reel and heavy sinking stuff could be found.


*It would not be the first time sealark came to the rescue and retrieved lost items at the bottom of the drink.

I am not a diver, so I can not relate, but it amazes me that he can go and find this stuff down there.

Kudos to Sealark!!!
*


----------



## oxbeast1210 (Jun 21, 2010)

BananaTom said:


> It would not be the first time sealark came to the rescue and retrieved lost items at the bottom of the drink.
> 
> I am not a diver, so I can not relate, but it amazes me that he can go and find this stuff down there.
> 
> Kudos to Sealark!!!


Yep!


----------



## Deep South (Oct 8, 2007)

BananaTom said:


> *If you google Florida Statute - Damage by Boat Wake, you will see that the operator is guilty of Reckless operation.
> 
> If you had the identity of the operator, you could file a complaint accordingly.
> 
> ...



So if I go float in the middle of the pass sitting on a 2x4 board and you come by me and swamp me and I lose my stuff then you have to recoup the damages!!!

By law I am sure you are correct, however people need to use their judgement as to whether their craft is suitable for the waters they are fishing in. 

Every year we hear the same story of someone in their 10' Jon boat getting swamped at the 3 mile bridge because a 21' foot boat passes within 200 yards of them. 

There are a lot of bad operators out there, but you can't entirely blame the other person when you put yourself in a losing situation.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Deep South said:


> So if I go float in the middle of the pass sitting on a 2x4 board and you come by me and swamp me and I lose my stuff then you have to recoup the damages!!!
> 
> By law I am sure you are correct, however people need to use their judgement as to whether their craft is suitable for the waters they are fishing in.
> 
> ...


I would say you would be responsible for your example. If you saw someone floatin on a 2by 4 and didn't stop you would be cited for not stopping and asisting them. Simpley you are responsible for your wake, period...


----------



## Flounderpounder (Oct 3, 2007)

sealark said:


> I would say you would be responsible for your example. If you saw someone floatin on a 2by 4 and didn't stop you would be cited for not stopping and asisting them. Simpley you are responsible for your wake, period...


Well said!


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*WOW unreal*

yes if you see someone floating on a 2X4 or a 10 foot boat in the middle of the pass you should stop and help them. Not sure why we need to expalin this to an adult.

The way folks operate boats around here I am surpirsed more folks dont get killed. Regardless of how dumb or ill prepared you think the other guy is you are still responsable for YOUR ACTIONS which includes your wake...

If you see a unsafe vessel or a vessel operating in a unsafe mannor report them to the coast guard this includes a 10 foot Boat in the pass.

As far as the canoe sorry this hasppened to you but canoes belong on a lake or small river not in the bay. Folks around here dont care enough to SLOW DOWN and go to idle speed when passing another vessel therefore do not take canoe into the bay you are asking for it. 

enough said


----------



## bigrick (Sep 29, 2010)

Not to be a Dick but taking a canoe in the pass could be a bad idea. If they knew what they were doing and laughed than ya they are asses but in any kind of seas a canoe or kayak can be very hard to see. Especially in the through of a wave. I've almost ran over a yak more than once offshore. I would highly recommend some sort of flag to be easier spotted when fishing anywhere near the gulf sorry about your stuff.


----------



## chad403 (Apr 20, 2008)

bad spot to be in a canoe.. Lots of boat traffice and current


----------



## Bonsaifishrman (Mar 17, 2009)

I believe the original poster said he tipped in 8 feet of water. That would have to make it more like toward the shore over there. So I would say that boater was cutting the shoreline close and likely did it on purpose. Just having fun at the expense of someones life and property.


----------



## Deep South (Oct 8, 2007)

billin said:


> yes if you see someone floating on a 2X4 or a 10 foot boat in the middle of the pass you should stop and help them. Not sure why we need to expalin this to an adult.
> 
> The whole 2x4 thing was meant to be a sarcastic remark.
> I agree that you are responsible for your wake, but damn, when are people goiing to take responsibility for their own actions. Blackwater river is for canoes not the pass.
> Wonder why they don't allow bicycles and mopeds on the interstate?


----------



## Valhalla (Dec 26, 2008)

Deep south - well said. have a lack of common sense and throw in a dbag or two and you got darwin knockin on your door. As the road to pickens is closed (as per the DOT website) that means you launched from where? Im guessing sherman cove or somwhere on NAS- since launching at either of the closed gulf shores park gates is a Hell of a paddle - so you are out cruisin around in a vessel out of its league and across active channels in a hazardous weather forecast - live and learn from it and consider yourself lucky


----------



## stevesmi (Mar 15, 2012)

lol guys I am an experienced canoer and where I was canoeing was not where the boats move in and out of the inlet.. these guys purposely came closer to shore just to tip me over. 

just some drunk young guys who probably have no regard for anyone else... perhaps after tipping me they regretted it but at that point if they had come back to help they knew they would of been in deeper shit so they probably assumed they would just get me wet, I doubt their intention was to kill me.

aren't boats supposed to split the buoys anyway? so I thought canoeing is safe, I was literally 50-100 yards tops (I think, not an expert at guessing exact yards) from shore towards NAS where the inlet crosses. it was only 8 foot of water.. I know cause I went under water and luckily i touched bottom... I think it gets to 20 feet between the buoys or more.

what exactly did i do that was against the law? also the wave action today was 3-4 feet and there was excellent visibility, hardly hazardous conditions..


----------



## PaulBoydenCustoms (Dec 3, 2008)

[/QUOTE] any kind of seas a canoe or kayak can be very hard to see. Especially in the through of a wave. I've almost ran over a yak more than once offshore. I would highly recommend some sort of flag to be easier spotted when fishing anywhere near the gulf sorry about your stuff.[/QUOTE]

totally agree, I dont understand the concept of water colored kayak's (blue green) either. flags would be great


----------



## BananaTom (Feb 16, 2008)

Deep South said:


> So if I go float in the middle of the pass sitting on a 2x4 board and you come by me and swamp me and I lose my stuff then you have to recoup the damages!!!
> 
> By law I am sure you are correct, however people need to use their judgement as to whether their craft is suitable for the waters they are fishing in.
> 
> ...


*Bottom Line = A vessel operator is responsible for his wake and the damages that wake inflicts on property, or person. PERIOD.

If you cause damage or injury, and it can be proven, first there will be a criminal action against you, and then a civil action.

It does not matter if it is to a canoe in the pass, a jon boat at 3 mile, or a dock you pass with a vessel moored to it.

You are screwed!!!!*


----------



## knot @ Work (Apr 18, 2012)

There are a lot of idiots out there> Sorry you lost your stuff.

But you are lucky you did not get injured or worse.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

stevesmi said:


> lol guys I am an experienced canoer and where I was canoeing was not where the boats move in and out of the inlet.. these guys purposely came closer to shore just to tip me over.
> 
> just some drunk young guys who probably have no regard for anyone else... perhaps after tipping me they regretted it but at that point if they had come back to help they knew they would of been in deeper shit so they probably assumed they would just get me wet, I doubt their intention was to kill me.
> 
> ...


You did nothing wrong except using bad judgement going out in those conditions. I can tell you don't have that much time at sea. Buoys are only aids to navigation boats can go anywhere they want to legally. Those boaters should have rendered assistance when they seen you go in the water. And they are responsible for there wake like previously stated. You description of where it happened is to vague to waste time looking for your stuff plus the visibility will suck for another week most likely.


----------



## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

3'-4' wave action is a no go...especially in a canoe. Glad you are ok.


----------



## Deep South (Oct 8, 2007)

what exactly did i do that was against the law? also the wave action today was 3-4 feet and there was excellent visibility, hardly hazardous conditions..[/QUOTE]


You didn't do any thing wrong. Just trying to say that the seaworthiness of your vessel and the actions of idiots (the other boater) can lead to something very tragic happening to you.


----------



## FLbeachbum (Jul 17, 2008)

In this crazy world we live in we must be extra vigilant. Your actions may have been OK in a "normal" world but in today's world you have to be careful to the unacceptable actions of others. Very similar to teaching my boys how to drive a car. It's just not enough to teach them to handle a car in various "natural' situations but you must be prepared for the drunk or for the person that is not paying attention. Who is right or wrong often is not relevant. You may have been in the right but you still ended up in the drink. We all must learn to live in a world where others may not be as responsible as we are. Sorry for your loss and glad you are able to tell the tale.


----------



## PAWGhunter (Feb 3, 2010)

Sorry this had to happen to you. Hopefully these weren't fellow PFF'ers that did this to you.


----------



## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

Glad you are ok... Thank the good lord, it could be a lot worse...


----------



## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

If they did come by you very close on purpose to tip you over then that is wrong. However, being in a boat so unstable that another boat going by tips your boat over means you shouldn't be there in the first place. We are talking about the bay and pass here which is a major waterway and no place for a canoe.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

DreamWeaver21 said:


> If they did come by you very close on purpose to tip you over then that is wrong. However, being in a boat so unstable that another boat going by tips your boat over means you shouldn't be there in the first place. We are talking about the bay and pass here which is a major waterway and no place for a canoe.


:thumbsup: I can't think of a nice way of saying it, but you have no business out there in a canoe. Its a matter of time before someone in a kayak gets run over and killed around here....


----------



## oxbeast1210 (Jun 21, 2010)

Regardless of what someone is on, there is no excuse for just leaving them swiming ... since they were laughing i assume they did see him....

I understand the point about knowing your vessels limitations but common courtesy goes a long way...
Ive had boaters and jet skies try to tip my kayak but they always fail (thankfully)

I did have a drunk boater nearly hit me hauling butt around a corner on blackwater. His ole lady made him come back and apologize.


----------



## PompChaser315 (Feb 18, 2011)

I know I might start a war here, but if I was out in a kayak and a boat was intentionally coming at me to swamp me would that justify using lethal force if I felt my life was in danger?


----------



## ArtV (Sep 1, 2012)

Easy to think of things after they happen. I always carry my cell, spare car and house key in a water proof little bag on my neck. Unfortunately all it take is one gerber guy like the pilot of the boat that tipped you to make life miserable.

I'm new here, but I'm not sure I would be any big water in a canoe. I marathon canoe raced for more than 20 years, but big water is big water....canoes fill up to easy.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

FUPAGUNT said:


> I know I might start a war here, but if I was out in a kayak and a boat was intentionally coming at me to swamp me would that justify using lethal force if I felt my life was in danger?[/
> 
> If somebody is texting and driving and rear ends you in your car with their car while you are stopped for a light
> you wouldn't think it ok to walk up to their car and put a couple of rounds in them would you?


----------



## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anybody remember the jetski with gas cans strapped on at the Oriskany sinking? If I remember right, Coast Guard picked him up.


----------



## PompChaser315 (Feb 18, 2011)

markw4321 said:


> FUPAGUNT said:
> 
> 
> > I know I might start a war here, but if I was out in a kayak and a boat was intentionally coming at me to swamp me would that justify using lethal force if I felt my life was in danger?[/
> ...


----------



## flukedaddy (Apr 11, 2009)

3ft-4ft in a canoe thats laughable it's not if you flip but when. The buoys are there for channel markers for large boats and no you do not have to be any where near them...

Wakes are apart of the bay and pass constantly some bigger than others... Hell by Banana's reference to boat wake damage we should all be suing the hell outta people for their wake's. I have been swamped by the coast guard, charter boats, as well as numerous sport fisherman from zero feet to 4 foot waves crashing. I guess I could nose up to pickens wait for the charters to start going out to sink the boat get name and recoup my loses right.... 

I can see your point in no wake zones, just by seeing the military, tugs, and coast guard boats send out monstrous wakes that make even the charter boats wake look small.


----------



## kendive (Sep 9, 2008)

BigSlick said:


> That sucks man. There are some real douchebags out there.



Yep and the main reason I don't own a boat anymore.


----------



## stevesmi (Mar 15, 2012)

flukedaddy said:


> 3ft-4ft in a canoe thats laughable it's not if you flip but when. .


that was the weather report before going out.. had it been bad I wouldn't of went out.. but they were much lower. go out this morning and I bet its flat out there. 

but thanks for your brilliant analysis as always. 

:notworthy:

also i doubt you have as much experience with me with canoeing and are in any position to question my safety. i never claimed to be an expert on boating but when it comes to canoeing that is a different story


----------



## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

kendive said:


> Yep and the main reason I don't own a boat anymore.


That and you don't know how to catch fish.


----------



## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

FUPAGUNT said:


> markw4321 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats a lil different there man.. Although still an act of stupidity that would technically still be an accident.. Im talking about someone purposely driving AT you with the attempt to do you harm.. Totally different scenario
> ...


----------



## flukedaddy (Apr 11, 2009)

stevesmi said:


> but thanks for your brilliant analysis as always.
> 
> 
> 
> also i doubt you have as much experience with me with canoeing and are in any position to question my safety. i never claimed to be an expert on boating but when it comes to canoeing that is a different story


 
You post it I don't mind giving an opinion sorry you don't like it. My point was I don't thing the pass or nearby areas are very good canoeing areas it can go from glass to up too 4ft off of wakes with big boats entering and leaving. That aside I do not stand up for jackasses that attempt to get to close or as you state purposely swamping, but it happens everyday there are people that buy boats or let there kids take the boat out that have no idea about boating..



And you are right I have ZERO experience with you canoeing, But I have owned a few but hell I am only 40. I chose to canoe in lakes and other places you usually see canoes. and by the way if I would have flipped I guarantee it would have been unintentional and I would have been right there to assist you.

By the way I am still waiting for that response on the difference between cocks and chickens...


----------



## Instant Karma (Oct 9, 2007)

Canoe + High Traffic area = swamping.

Use the sense God gave you. Go in a suitable boat or don't go at all. A boater is responsible for his wake but you are also responsible for having a suitable craft.


----------



## Realtor (Oct 1, 2007)

:beer::singing::boat::hurt:

this is a great thread, that issue of "putting a couple rounds" into someone seems to always come up. YEAH Boy!


----------



## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

3-4' in a canoe???? And your pissed that you flipped????

Yep your just oozing experience.


If the other boat did intentionally flip you though, That is wrong to the worst degree. But assholes that would do something llike that is just another factor that adds to the danger of doing something silly like putting a canoe in open water with a 3-4' forecasted sea.
Sorry the whole thing happened but there are consequences for actions regardless of intentions.
I hope SeaLark can help you recover your belongings.


----------



## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Instant Karma said:


> Canoe + High Traffic area = swamping.
> 
> Use the sense God gave you. Go in a suitable boat or don't go at all. A boater is responsible for his wake but you are also responsible for having a suitable craft.


 
THIS^^^^^^^

A boater is responsible for his wake but you are responsible for your own ass. Dont let yourself down!!


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I really wonder if he knows what 4 footers look like. I wouldn't take my bay boat out in them, much less a canoe.


----------



## caddysdad (Nov 8, 2010)

*I don't know where to start.***

***


----------



## Getsome (Sep 28, 2007)

MrFish said:


> I really wonder if he knows what 4 footers look like. I wouldn't take my bay boat out in them, much less a canoe.


This^^^


----------



## olesoandso (Apr 1, 2012)

I am not an experienced conoeist, so when I kayak or canoe, I expect to flip over at least once. Float on keys and fishing poles. All of my coolers float without any extra. I thought everyones did. Drunk punks suck, but that is the world we live in. 

Semper Fi


----------



## spb65 (Mar 15, 2008)

Sounds like something (Canoeing in the pass) that I would have done when I was young and dumb. Kinda remember doing things like that back in the day. Now it sounds like something I would tell my 18 yr old that it does not sound like a very wise idea. But that is like leading a horse to water. You just hope that God still looks out for fools. He did in my case. Sorry you lost your stuff.


----------



## kendive (Sep 9, 2008)

Splittine said:


> That and you don't know how to catch fish.


LOL... I catch alot of fish out here...

Better to fish while at work. :thumbup:


----------



## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

No matter the judgement of this young person going out in a canoe, the other boat should have stopped to help. I believe that most of us whether our fault or not would have given him a hand.


----------



## ArtV (Sep 1, 2012)

SHunter said:


> No matter the judgement of this young person going out in a canoe, the other boat should have stopped to help. I believe that most of us whether our fault or not would have given him a hand.


Dead on....the guy should have turned back to help. Because he didn't gives more credence to his possible intent of trying to swamp the canoe.

Really to bad he didn't get the name of the boat. If nothing else he could find it and swim in at night and pull the bilge plug.


----------



## billin (Oct 14, 2007)

*Amazing*

We live in a world where most won't leave there homes or even stay indoors without a firearms in fear of the actions of others and the potential untimely death at the hands of another irresponsible or irrational person. But take a canoe out into the bay and your amazed something bad happened. People these days are for the most part bad and getting worse do not trust your personal safety to a total stranger on the water or off. That is the lesson you should learn from all of this. Southern gentelman for the most part don't live here idiots live here and idiots KILL people.


----------



## stevesmi (Mar 15, 2012)

UPDATE: 

I guess posting this thread works. I found out who did it.. and thank you to the PFF member who did the detective work and put 2 and 2 together (yeah its a small town and people do talk after all) .. turns out the boat owner apologized to me and is gonna replace my rod and reel.. he wanted to pay for my car damage but I refused. he insisted anyway. 

turns out the driver of the boat was not the boat owner but the son out with his friends (and we all know how kids love to gossip about the stupid shit they do).. and the dad is mighty PO'd about the situation and now the son is gonna spend the next 3 months mowing my 1 acre lot for free until I move out plus trimming my trees as well. 

there are good people left after all in the world. the father does not post on here but I insisted he sign up for an account and thank everyone who had my back on here so maybe he will chime in sometime soon

thanks again to the PFF member who heard the story and did the detective work.. just a word to the wise, if you are gonna do stupid stuff it might be a good idea to not go around bragging about it the next day to everyone at work 

and no I'm not gonna pursue things further as all kids make mistakes and when he is sweating bullets mowing my lawn he will learn from it lol.


----------



## Deep South (Oct 8, 2007)

Glad you found out who did it.


----------



## kahala boy (Oct 1, 2007)

stevesmi said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I guess posting this thread works. I found out who did it.. and thank you to the PFF member who did the detective work and put 2 and 2 together (yeah its a small town and people do talk after all) .. turns out the boat owner apologized to me and is gonna replace my rod and reel.. he wanted to pay for my car damage but I refused. he insisted anyway.
> 
> ...


Good on whoever helped you out and good on you for doing what you did with the dad of the kid. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## BigSlick (Jun 13, 2010)

That's very refreshing to hear the kid got what was coming to him.


----------



## leeprice72 (Oct 3, 2007)

You still should not be out there in a canoe. It is a bad idea.


----------



## fishnfool (Oct 2, 2007)

glad it's working out for you as far as the gear goes. Even better that the dad took responsibility and will hold the son accountable for it. A sign that good parenting still exists!!


----------



## Charlie2 (Oct 2, 2007)

*Son*



fishnfool said:


> glad it's working out for you as far as the gear goes. Even better that the *dad took responsibility and will hold the son accountable for it. A sign that good parenting still exists!!*


I agree wholeheartedly. It's time that the kids also accept responsibility for their actions.

Good Show; Dad! C2


----------



## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

As an educator I don't see enough of accountability from kids. Too often it is everyone's fault but my kid. He might have saved his son and the rest of the family future heartache by making him responsible for his deed. The son acting foolish could have hit and killed someone or himself. Good lesson for life Dad!


----------

