# I am at the NMFS meeting in Mobile



## Water Spout II (Feb 26, 2009)

Bunch of charter guys here. Hoped more Rex guys where here.


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm at soccer practice with my son, I made an online comment and passed it on to some friends to do also.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

Good on you for going and voicing your opinion.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

I will say this. For the sake of your Florida Fishery, you better hope they give us a plan to keep us in federal waters. Just found out today that we have the green light to split our permits up, drop the reef and keep the migratory. This will allow us to catch and release in federal waters keep king mackerel, then go into your Florida waters and snapper fish. Basically your worst nightmare. Double snapper trips every day for 50 or more days. Pensacola pass is less than 20 miles for us. We fish whether its rough or calm, it will be a way different deal for you next year, worse than 10 years ago.


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

Good for you fair, I will continue to do what I do when I have to!


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

WE IN FLORIDA WILL JUST SHUT YOU DOWN FROM DOING ANY FISHING INCLUDING CATCHING BAIT IN FLORIDA WATERS...YOUR WORSE NIGHT MARE:thumbsup:


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

captwesrozier said:


> we in florida will just shut you down from doing any fishing including catching bait in florida waters...your worse night mare:thumbsup:


ok then, better get a bigger boat. Lol


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Well, we may find ourselves with quite a few new wrecks to fish.


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

DO NOT NEED A BIGGER BOAT. IT IS CALLED THE FWC. 

DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN USE A GILL NET IN FEDERAL WATERS TO CATCH POMPANO? WHY...CAUSE THE FEDS ALLOWED THE HARVEST BUT IN FLORIDA YOU CANNOT USE GILL NETS TO CATCH POMPANO.

IT IS REAL EASY WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO FIGHT YOU COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN IN THE FEDERAL ARENA. WE WILL CREATE LAWS THAT WILL STOP YOU IN FLORIDA WATERS. YOUR WORSE NIGHT MARE:thumbsup:

OH REMEMBER YOUR 9 DAYS OF SNAPPER FISHING...WE HAD 52 DAYS:thumbsup: THAT IS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE OF FLORIDA SPOKE AND THE FEDS LOST:thumbsup:

YOUR WORSE NIGHT MARE:thumbsup:

HEAVY FAVORITES ONLY WIN 30% OF THE TIME. SO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH YOUR AH WE ARE BEATING YOU ATTITUDE. YOU MAY FIND US LAUGHING OUR ASSES OFF AT YOU 2015


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Good luck with that!


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Funny as hell really. Who's going to show up at a meeting or do anything other than pound a keyboard?


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

Maybe we fish in state waters 104 days catch so many red snapper the feds will have no choice but to close all federal waters to you commercial fishermen.

Remember the feds are bound by law.


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## captwesrozier (Sep 28, 2007)

Why do we need to show up at a meeting when we can submit our responses by internet. You commercial fishermen are not real smart. That is why you have turned on your brothers and sisters.

When you turn on your family it usually never turns out good for you.

Good luck to you


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

When did I become commercial? Click on my website and see what I do before you comment. You sound lost


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

The feds started this and we're the ones quaralling with one another. It's easy to see who is winning... and it ain't us.


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## dustyflair (Nov 11, 2011)

I;m with Capt Wes...I think we could protect our fishery VERY EASY!!! They are already using drones out there it will be very easy to keep certain boats out of our state waters...And we should open it up 365 days a year too...Really piss those guys off!!! Texas did it...


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Just to tell ya burnt, you can split your permits. If amendment 40 fails most CFH that do the tourist type trips are going to do it. Jacks are going to 35 inches so inside 20 miles or so that's going to be a catch and release fishery. The only thing your going to need your federal reef permit for is BBs and Whities.


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## Water Spout II (Feb 26, 2009)

agreed Burnt drag. I will say this, I was surprised that it was as calm as it was compared to what I saw from the other meeting. What is sad is that we are at this point where it is rec vs charter. Many charter guys and rec guys said they weren't against each other and both had speakers that agreed that both groups have been backed into a corner due to the regulations and were being forced to stand up for their interests due to the actions of the NMFS. I truly believe neither group wants this to happen but the situation put on us by the FEDS is why the charter guys are supporting the amendment and things are heading this way. 

The best part of the night was getting the three representatives to admit that the data they had and were basing the TAC and the proposed split percentages between private and charter were flawed. 

It is simply amazing that they are going to try and put further regulations on all of us with incomplete and inaccurate data. It's so stupid and typical of the government. 

I will say this in closing. It doesn't look good for rec guys. We are probably going to get our days further cut if this passes and may even look a total gulf closure eventually for all bottom fish if things continue progressing the way they are. 

The only way I ever see this changing is (1) feds turning over control to the states for bottom fish in both state and federal waters (2) a total re-do of the model used to calculate the TAC (3) people just say screw it and stop following the rules. 

That is all I have.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I will say this. For the sake of your Florida Fishery, you better hope they give us a plan to keep us in federal waters. Just found out today that we have the green light to split our permits up, drop the reef and keep the migratory. This will allow us to catch and release in federal waters keep king mackerel, then go into your Florida waters and snapper fish. Basically your worst nightmare. Double snapper trips every day for 50 or more days. Pensacola pass is less than 20 miles for us. We fish whether its rough or calm, it will be a way different deal for you next year, worse than 10 years ago.




You are from Florida and I am pretty sure you know who Steve Southerland is right? That will happen when pigs fly in his territory. Southerland is you and yours worst nightmare right now. You guys are running scared. The days are numbered on the reauthorization of the MSA getting passed. By the way have you personally read H.R.4742 ? Even if you and yours get there way I smell injunctions due to all data not being completed to warrant sector separation. Also like I said before if you think all these Gulf Coast States Governors are going to allow billions of dollars to go away for a couple thousand Charter Boats that don’t bring in the revenue like the private sector recreational fishermen do you guys have another thing coming.

Fairwater I do math all day long for businesses. This math is not adding up for the Charters. You guys are getting duped.Greed does funny things sometimes. Think about it.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

There's going to be a zero day federal season next year, for the private rec. With or without sector separation.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> There's going to be a zero day federal season next year, for the private rec. With or without sector separation.


 So, we will all go catch and release in Federal Waters then come back to State water to catch our fish. Opps!!! better get a bigger boat.


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## Bean Counter (Nov 15, 2010)

The recreational side of this argument can only be won by a federal lawsuit. If we have no one to help us we have already lost. Some law school student should love to take on a socio-economic human rights violation case as a thesis. Maybe I can find one, maybe you can. If the federal government is going to deprive me of my rights as a citizen to economically benefit another citizen without compensation I believe a case can be made and won. For those that are wondering, socio-economic human rights include a right to culture and anyone would be hard pressed to say fishing was not part of our culture.


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

If we all can't get equal access then shut the whole gulf down!!!


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Bean Counter said:


> The recreational side of this argument can only be won by a federal lawsuit. If we have no one to help us we have already lost. Some law school student should love to take on a socio-economic human rights violation case as a thesis. Maybe I can find one, maybe you can. If the federal government is going to deprive me of my rights as a citizen to economically benefit another citizen without compensation I believe a case can be made and won. For those that are wondering, socio-economic human rights include a right to culture and anyone would be hard pressed to say fishing was not part of our culture.


I agree 100%. I made this point as part of my online comment.


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## Water Boys (Aug 13, 2009)

I was at the meeting last night. I get the feeling that this is a done deal. The charter guys have been working on this for months. We are just getting the obligatory public comment period. 

They propose roughly a 50/50 split between the for-hire guys and the rest of us recreational guys. From their published numbers there are roughly 2.8 Million recreational anglers fishing for red snapper in the Gulf. There are roughly 1400 for-hire vessels. In order to split the quota evenly, you could say split the number of anglers evenly. So that means the 2.8 million private recreational anglers would go fishing one day and another 2.8 million people will go on 1400 charter boats to be 50/50. That is 2000 people per charter boat. That is about 200 trips per boat. I feel most recerational anglers are thinking that our seasons and catches will be close to the for-hire group. I think it will be hugely different. I really think the for-hire guys will wind up with 180-250 days to fish and we recreational guys will get ZERO!! When that happens everyone will raise hell. But too late!

I saw many Charter captains last night that I have known and fished with for years. I do not blame them. When you hear their story, you can't argue with what they are doing. They have turned a lose-lose situation(current situation) into a win-lose. We, the unorganized private recreational fisherman, as usual will lose.

THIS IS BAD!! I think the only solution is to file a federal lawsuit.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

The answer is what Alabama DNR is doing; 1) Implementing the required accountability with their mandatory red snapper reporting system, and 2) Doing what the feds' refuse to do - go out and actually count the red snapper where they live.

#1 eliminates the supposed need for Sector Separation, as their main claim is that Amendment 40 is the ONLY solution to getting better accountability.

That is a lie - Alabama has ALREADY shown it can be done using 21st century technology and in a manner that can be enforced.

#2 will show that the federal government (and their enviro corporation cohorts) have been defrauding the American People by egregiously underestimating the actual amount of red snapper out there. Preliminary results show that there could be as much as 20X the amount of red snapper in the Alabama reefing zones alone than what the feds' say are in the _*ENTIRE*_ Gulf of Mexico.

Let's just say that there are 20X the snapper across the Gulf - what does that mean? That means that instead of an 11 million pound TAC, we could be fishing 20X that, or 220 million pounds. Even if you apply a 50% buffer, that's *110 MILLION POUNDS - PLENTY OF FISH FOR EVERYONE, FOR-HIRE AND RECS ALIKE AND NO NEED FOR SECTOR SEPARATION OR IFQS.*

Ard is just spreading alarmist propaganda saying that there will be a ZERO day red snapper season next year UNLESS they go with Amendment 40. In light of what Alabama is bringing to the table relative to #1 and #2 above, I believe there will be a sea change in how the regulators will be FORCED to address our access to our Public Trust Resource here in the Gulf.


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## Scout800 (Mar 22, 2010)

Have the numbers from the Alabama reporting system been published anywhere? It's amazing they want to make changes knowing the data is flawed.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I will say this. For the sake of your Florida Fishery, you better hope they give us a plan to keep us in federal waters. Just found out today that we have the green light to split our permits up, drop the reef and keep the migratory.  This will allow us to catch and release in federal waters keep king mackerel, then go into your Florida waters and snapper fish. Basically your worst nightmare. Double snapper trips every day for 50 or more days. Pensacola pass is less than 20 miles for us. We fish whether its rough or calm, it will be a way different deal for you next year, worse than 10 years ago.


Did you just give us the ol' nanny nanny boo boo? You're a bitch dude...


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## TeaSea (Sep 28, 2013)

Yakavelli said:


> Did you just give us the ol' nanny nanny boo boo? You're a bitch dude...


I don't know this guy but he comes off like a real dik


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Just telling the truth and the truth about what will happen to the state fishery next year. Your going to see that the NMFS will not take into account anything the state of Alabama has done, this is for amendment 39, regional management. You will also see that the state non-compliance will have caught up most all of the TAC, the Councils only move for next year is HOW BIG THE BUFFER they put on the TAC. This will give us a 0 federal season. The charter boats all along the coast see this coming even tho Hilton does not. We see it coming and will prepare ourselves to catch red snapper in the Florida and Alabama state seasons . This will be easily done by keeping our migratory permit for King Mackerel, HMS permit for sharks, tuna. This will allow us to stay fishing in federal waters, we will then put our federal reef fish permit on our bass boat, this will allow us to fish for red snapper in state waters with state license. This will happen next year if amendment 40 goes to final action and fails. Get ready for it, will not take long to realize you don't want big boats, professional fishermen, commercial grade electronics, and multiple trips per day fishing in your 9 mile box. Have you ever seen a vacume cleaner work? Well it will be just like that but different.


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

#1 Alabama reporting has no real time verification, you can easily cheat the system. #2 the Alabama reporting system has nothing at all to do with stock assessments or how many fish are in the gulf, you should know well that the Federal government is not going to take the states word on any self reported stock assessment. Your reasonings FAIL Hilton, almost as bad as trying to address Alabama Charter fishermen and calling them sons of bitches. What you will see for the pure recreational fisherman in 2015 federal waters is BUFFERS on your TAC which will lead to a ZERO day federal season due to state non-compliance. As soon as they take into account that the CFH dropping there permits and the state catches will quadrupole. You will not have a recreational federal season at all next year, sector separation or not!!


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

Keep dreaming, sector seperation ain't happening !!


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## Slamdancer (Aug 6, 2008)

A simple solution is to require fish tags for all recreational catches. Limit 2 tags per day per person during an extended season. People chartering a boat would need to buy the required tags to keep snapper as would the private boats.

The Feds have already given the commercial fishermen & charter boats a monopoly, as no new reef fish permits are being issued. I'm sure all of us in the private sector would love the idea of no new competition.

The regions economy would be better served by making snapper a game fish and eliminating the commercial harvest. I would rather see the harvesting of snapper closed for all, than have the Feds give the commercial & charter boats a monopoly on a public resource.

See you in the pass.


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## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

I say bring on the Sector Separation I'm tired of all this and honestly I don't care about stupid Red Snapper, let the Charter guys win their stupid first battle that is fine it is their livelihood anyway. 

But if Charter fisherman really think that keeping Recreational fishing out of the fishery is the long term answer you are dead wrong. The dollar speaks and the dollar is on the recreational side that blows the commercial and charter business out of the water, it is really not even close and there is hard data to prove this.

Tax dollars are the bottom line, and Charter fishing brings in pennies on the dollar compared to Recreational fishing.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I will say this. For the sake of your Florida Fishery, you better hope they give us a plan to keep us in federal waters. Just found out today that we have the green light to split our permits up, drop the reef and keep the migratory. This will allow us to catch and release in federal waters keep king mackerel, then go into your Florida waters and snapper fish. Basically your worst nightmare. Double snapper trips every day for 50 or more days. Pensacola pass is less than 20 miles for us. We fish whether its rough or calm, it will be a way different deal for you next year, worse than 10 years ago.


Why do you go out of your way to be an asshole?


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Lyin Too said:


> Why do you go out of your way to be an asshole?


An Asshole? So if telling the truth makes me an asshole, I guess so be it. Just telling you whats going to happen, and something for everyone to think about.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Capt Wez, please explain the details of your plans on how fwc will keep state licensed guide boats out of Florida waters? My license doesn't expire until Aug 1, 2015. The ins and outs of you plans would be rather informative.

Both of my boats carry state licenses. We mackerel fish over there quiet regular. Your smoking something if you think FWC can keep a non- resident out of Florida. Yes they have kept federally permitted commercial fishing boats from fishing in state waters. But that's a boat with a permit, something we will not have. 

Hate it Hilton didn't show up in Mobile. I respect everyone thy did show up at the meetings whether they were for or against me.


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## spike (May 25, 2008)

*fish*



Fairwaterfishing said:


> Just telling the truth and the truth about what will happen to the state fishery next year. Your going to see that the NMFS will not take into account anything the state of Alabama has done, this is for amendment 39, regional management. You will also see that the state non-compliance will have caught up most all of the TAC, the Councils only move for next year is HOW BIG THE BUFFER they put on the TAC. This will give us a 0 federal season. The charter boats all along the coast see this coming even tho Hilton does not. We see it coming and will prepare ourselves to catch red snapper in the Florida and Alabama state seasons . This will be easily done by keeping our migratory permit for King Mackerel, HMS permit for sharks, tuna. This will allow us to stay fishing in federal waters, we will then put our federal reef fish permit on our bass boat, this will allow us to fish for red snapper in state waters with state license. This will happen next year if amendment 40 goes to final action and fails. Get ready for it, will not take long to realize you don't want big boats, professional fishermen, commercial grade electronics, and multiple trips per day fishing in your 9 mile box. Have you ever seen a vacume cleaner work? Well it will be just like that but different.



Bring it on, I aint skeerd :thumbup:


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## baldona523 (Mar 2, 2008)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> An Asshole? So if telling the truth makes me an asshole,  I guess so be it. Just telling you whats going to happen, and something for everyone to think about.


I don't have a problem with you politically trying to protect your livelihood, but coming on here and bragging to your local recreational fisherman that our rights are going to be cut because you are louder than we are is ridiculous. 

Politics is all about financial support and the charter fleet is ultimately nothing compared to recreational fishing. I bet there is more taxes in just recreational offshore boat sales on the gulf coast than the charter community brings in. We may be unorganized right now and lack a voice, but ultimately the dollar will speak the truth in the end.

So again, laugh all you want but all you are doing is separating yourself from the most populated and most tax revenue producing sector. You are making yourself the minority. Chew on that for a bit.


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Slamdancer said:


> A simple solution is to require fish tags for all recreational catches. Limit 2 tags per day per person during an extended season. People chartering a boat would need to buy the required tags to keep snapper as would the private boats.
> 
> ...


An even simpler and more equitable solution than that would be to require anglers on CFH boats to each purchase their own individual recreational fishing licenses & abide the same seasons & rules as those fishing off private boats.

Then there'd be nothing for Rec & CFH to squabble & try to stab each other in the back over. 

Individual Fishing Licenses can be purchased online in a matter of minutes 24/7/365 nowadays. Even from the ubiquitous smart phones. (When I have out-of-State company we do it the evening before or even the morning of) Or they can stop off at a nearby Wally-World that seem to be everywhere as well on their way to the dock if they prefer the in-person experience. 

Then let's tell the commercial sector if any particular species is in such short supply there needs to be seasonal & numerical restrictions on the recreational catch.... they can't keep & sell that particular species at all! (or not any more than a rec fisherman can, anyway)

Sound *fair* to anyone else?




*


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I am all for the recreational anglers having access to the public resources contained in the GOM ahead of the commercial sector and the CFH sector. The average Joe who spends money to go fishing has way more right to those public resources than the people who make money fishing for them.

At the same time I have to say that all of this name calling and back biting is about as useful as udders on a bull not to mention that it isn't polite, not very nice and a neon sign of no class. Disagree with whom every you like, hate anyone you want to but at least be civil on the forum.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

It's funny how one or two guys on this forum are the only ones for amend 40 because their livelihoods benefit directly from it and in any which way we describe it it's considered bragging about it. Like Det Friday says "the facts maam, just the facts."


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## Slamdancer (Aug 6, 2008)

Rather than fighting each other, we need to be fighting to have Red Snapper declared a gamefish and maximize the economic impact the fishery has to offer.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I will say this. For the sake of your Florida Fishery, you better hope they give us a plan to keep us in federal waters. Just found out today that we have the green light to split our permits up, drop the reef and keep the migratory. This will allow us to catch and release in federal waters keep king mackerel, then go into your Florida waters and snapper fish. Basically your worst nightmare. Double snapper trips every day for 50 or more days. Pensacola pass is less than 20 miles for us. We fish whether its rough or calm, it will be a way different deal for you next year, worse than 10 years ago.



It would be really worth it to you to run all the way over to Fl on a regular basis to catch red snapper.....that's funny. Hey I've got some numbers off Destin I'll hook you up with, see you there:thumbup:. Weren't you the one saying that the state water snapper wouldn't last through a longer state season? Yet you want to come fish FL state waters now. I'll say this, you can flip flop on issues worse than the POTUS.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

AndyS said:


> An even simpler and more equitable solution than that would be to require anglers on CFH boats to each purchase their own individual recreational fishing licenses & abide the same seasons & rules as those fishing off private boats.
> 
> Then there'd be nothing for Rec & CFH to squabble & try to stab each other in the back over.
> 
> ...


 And that is one of the easiest most sensible answers I have heard yet. What do you Say Tom Ard? Afterall, those tourist have the same rights to the red snapper as us private boat owners.....


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> It's funny how one or two guys on this forum are the only ones for amend 40 because their livelihoods benefit directly from it and in any which way we describe it it's considered bragging about it. Like Det Friday says "the facts maam, just the facts."


Bobby

Has your business been so negatively affected that you are at the point you feel like you could not make it with a zero day federal snapper season?


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## scott44 (Aug 17, 2013)

AndyS said:


> An even simpler and more equitable solution than that would be to require anglers on CFH boats to each purchase their own individual recreational fishing licenses & abide the same seasons & rules as those fishing off private boats.
> 
> Then there'd be nothing for Rec & CFH to squabble & try to stab each other in the back over.
> 
> ...


^Best idea on here! The commercial fishermen would then be free to reallocate their vast talents into something that benefits society,like Mickey D's,wallyworld etc.....:yes:


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## Fairwaterfishing (Mar 17, 2009)

Love the cowboys when they come out. Captain Penny when was the last meeting you attended? What? Had to work a real job?? Y'all keep it up your changing the world on here!! Believe that


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Love the cowboys when they come out. Captain Penny when was the last meeting you attended? What? Had to work a real job?? Y'all keep it up your changing the world on here!! Believe that



Nice deflection of an honest and well put question straight into an insult. I can't attest for your personality in person as I have never met you, but your internet persona is a royal d-bag.


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## weedline (Aug 20, 2011)

big issue started when the feds said the permited boats couldnt fish state waters if fed was closed. i quit charter fishing in 2011 and we always could fish state waters when they were open. i get fairwater being pissed he got 9 days the other recs got 50+ he wants whats best for him and if he isnt considered a rec then it needs to be changed. with that said it pisses me off that the true commercial guys get 6 months a year while fed permited charter boats get 9 days and true recs get 50+ its all ready all split up. simple fix give us all 6 months problem solved


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## Water Spout II (Feb 26, 2009)

The only argument that I completely disagree with is the charter guys pulling the "this is my livelihood and I provide average Americans access to a public resource." By stating that, they are saying two things (1) I have more of a right to the fish than someone else does because I make a living off of it (and they never recognize its a public fishery open to everyone) and (2) I am a good person because I am provide people that are not rich and can't own a boat access to the fishery so some how you should treat me different from a private boat owner. 

Well, sorry but in response to number 1, you don't have to be a charter captain. You can go do something else. You have no more right to the fishery than rec guys do. I dont care if you make your living doing it. You can make your living doing something else. As for number 2, a lot of people take charters that own boats. I have in the past when I had a bachelor party so all the people going are not these poor folks with no access to the fishery. Second, if you are so concerned about providing access to the fishery for the average fisherman, why don't you make them pay fuel only to take them fishing. Oh wait, it's because you want to make money off of them. Third, i have taken people fishing that can't afford a boat fishing for basically free as long as they bring sandwich's or beer or snacks. 

So just admit why you want sector separation. You want it to protect your income stream but you have no more of a right to the fish than I do. You don't want it because you are doing some moral good deed by taking the public fishing. If you admit that, I understand your position but cut the BS.


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## Yakavelli (Mar 17, 2010)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> Love the cowboys when they come out. Captain Penny when was the last meeting you attended? What? Had to work a real job?? Y'all keep it up your changing the world on here!! Believe that


Hey...didn't you have an avatar with your boat pic? Love the jackasses who act like such a bitch they have to remove any proof of who they are...


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## bamajdk (Feb 27, 2014)

Arguing with the commercial guys about fishing is like trying to tell a liberal democrat that entitlement spending is killing American economy all while he is holding two Obama phones, his disability check, unemployment check, EBT card, and a case of beer and cigarettes.


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## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> I will say this. For the sake of your Florida Fishery, you better hope they give us a plan to keep us in federal waters. Just found out today that we have the green light to split our permits up, drop the reef and keep the migratory. This will allow us to catch and release in federal waters keep king mackerel, then go into your Florida waters and snapper fish. Basically your worst nightmare. Double snapper trips every day for 50 or more days. Pensacola pass is less than 20 miles for us. We fish whether its rough or calm, it will be a way different deal for you next year, worse than 10 years ago.


Maybe the rec crowd will just start fishing where ever the charter guys are. We can always catch and release, or maybe just chum for sharks. But the big thing is I guess you do need the easy fishing to make a living, contrary to what you or one of the other sheep said when this all cranked up.


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## SHunter (Jun 19, 2009)

*gamefish*



Slamdancer said:


> Rather than fighting each other, we need to be fighting to have Red Snapper declared a gamefish and maximize the economic impact the fishery has to offer.


As much as I would like to see red snapper become a gamefish, I don't believe that the mega fish industry in places like New York will ever let that happen. They have the lobby money and you can bet they are the originals behind you not being able to catch and keep snapper for both charter and regular anglers. A lot of our fish is being shipped out of the country where people pay more $$ than locals are willing to pay in a restaurant on the gulf coast. Example -Tonight I was at the Oar House and I asked what fish was being used for fish and chips. The answer was Basa. A couple months ago I went into Patti's Deli and asked what the fish sandwich was made from and again I got Basa. Our resources are being shipped elsewhere and as long as that continues charter boats and regular fishing folks are going to get the shaft.


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## spinfactor (Sep 22, 2013)

Water Boys said:


> I was at the meeting last night. I get the feeling that this is a done deal. The charter guys have been working on this for months. We are just getting the obligatory public comment period.
> 
> They propose roughly a 50/50 split between the for-hire guys and the rest of us recreational guys. From their published numbers there are roughly 2.8 Million recreational anglers fishing for red snapper in the Gulf. There are roughly 1400 for-hire vessels. In order to split the quota evenly, you could say split the number of anglers evenly. So that means the 2.8 million private recreational anglers would go fishing one day and another 2.8 million people will go on 1400 charter boats to be 50/50. That is 2000 people per charter boat. That is about 200 trips per boat. I feel most recerational anglers are thinking that our seasons and catches will be close to the for-hire group. I think it will be hugely different. I really think the for-hire guys will wind up with 180-250 days to fish and we recreational guys will get ZERO!! When that happens everyone will raise hell. But too late!
> 
> ...


Wow, but we recreational fishermen don't have a 6 - 10 electric or hydraulic reels with 30 to 40 hooks on one reel to fish with until the reef has been cleaned out of anything that can bite either. In addition, most recreational anglers don't have a clue where the fish are or the capability to stay out for days or to track them down. What a crock!!!

Looking at this amendment it seems it's just that, not a proposal or a resolution for vote. Seems it's a done deal. We didn't have a chance.


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/comment_forms/RF Amendment 40 - Sector Separation.php


Whether you or for it or against it you still have the opportunity to make electronic comments at the above link.


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## cold beers (Oct 9, 2007)

I think it is funny that Fairwater took the picture of his boat off of his signature. Are you going to take the name off the boat to?

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO CONTACT THEIR CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS. AS WELL AS POST YOUR OPINIONS ON THE GULF COUNCIL SITE.

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/comment_forms/RF%20Amendment%2040%20-%20Sector%20Separation.php


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Alarmist propaganda; 
"Unless we get Amendment 40 passed, we will have a ZERO day red snapper season next year".
"Amendment 40 is the ONLY way to get accountability".
"Watch out because we are going to fish out state waters unless we get our way".
"We are going to sue if Amendment 40 isn't approved".

Sector Separation is not going to make it - sorry Amigo.


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Tom Hilton said:


> Alarmist propaganda;
> "Unless we get Amendment 40 passed, we will have a ZERO day red snapper season next year".
> "Amendment 40 is the ONLY way to get accountability".
> "Watch out because we are going to fish out state waters unless we get our way".
> ...




Exactly. It's dead.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Fairwaterfishing said:


> There's going to be a zero day federal season next year, for the private rec. With or without sector separation.


This all such bull shit !
Charter boats are nothing but a taxi driver for Rec fisherman and your quota get on board with your customers
Thats a fact Jack !


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Are you calling yourself a taxi driver?


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## Time Bandit (Apr 16, 2012)

Just spitballing here, but what's it going to do to the price of your charter trips if you have to burn the fuel to run over to Florida to catch snapper? If you're actually willing to do that, then think about how quickly you're going to fish out what's right inside the state line....you have to keep running further and further to catch fish. All the while, you're burning more fuel, making the trips more expensive, and also giving your customers less actual fishing time. And the time spent running to and fro is definitely going to prevent running three trips a day, and will make two tough. Seems like either way, your customer, the valued public who wouldn't otherwise have access to the fishery, comes out on the short end of the stick.

If you want to do that, be my guest. Just make sure you explain to your customers that it's because you wanted sector separation instead of joining with the private rec guys to try to get the whole thing overhauled.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> Are you calling yourself a taxi driver?


Yes I am
I carry rec fishermen to catch THEIR daily creel limit. and I am simply a driver/un tangler/net or gaff man
I do not think any BOAT should get their own personal quota.
take away the blanket fishing license that covers the boat, make customers purchase a fishing license and then your customers have their own creel limit.
I will never be in agreement with any thing that takes fish away from the Rec fishermen.
With the shortened seasons I can understand these charter boats trying to save their way of making a living, but this is not the way to do it.
Game fish designation is the only way to stop all this.


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## jdgator (Apr 16, 2014)

You charter guys do realize that this whole affair will hurt your business, don't you? By next year, a entire cohort of highschool boys (9th-12th grade) along the Gulf coast will graduate without enjoying a decent red snapper season. You will have lost them. Their dads have taken them golfing or kayaking instead. You've lost several million potential customers. These guys are going to attend college, enlist, or start businesses. And when they vacation, they'll spend the money to travel abroad, run a marathon, or go to the mountains. Spending a grand to charter one of your boats for a day of fishing is NOT going to be on their radar - they don't have memories of having fun snapper fishing on dad's boat.


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## Gator McKlusky (Oct 8, 2013)

on August 08, 2014 at 5:42 PM, updated August 08, 2014 at 9:43 PM



-----------
Both sides struck a more conciliatory tone in their comments made during a public hearing held Thursday in Mobile on the idea of splitting the Gulf's recreational catch of red snapper into two new components compared to a similar hearing held Wednesday night in Orange Beach.

That did not change the opposing views of the two groups affected if the Gulf of Mexico Fishing Management Council moves ahead with Amendment 40 to the red snapper fishery management plan and divides the recreational sector into separate for-hire/charterboat and private-angler components.

The amendment also would charge the council with deciding what percentage of the current recreational sector's 49-percent share of the Gulfwide red snapper quota each newly created group would get.

During both coastal Alabama public hearings, for-hire charter captains unanimously supported the idea of splitting as laid out in Amendment 40 while private recreational anglers unquestionably opposed it.

A Gulf Breeze, Fla., based charterboat captain, who commented in Orange Beach, was the only person directly involved in the for-hire industry to express opposition to sector separation.

The captain, Steve Ennis, said he did not believe there was any way to fairly divide the recreational sector quota between the two new components even if Amendment 40 was approved.

For the Gulf's coastal tourism and fishing industries, hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake in this debate.

The Alabama coast especially has long touted itself as the red snapper capital of the world, drawing waves of visitors to the fleets of charter-fishing boats working out of Gulf Shores, Orange Beach and Dauphin Island.

The issue has pitted fishermen against each other. A brawl almost broke out during the Orange Beach meeting when a private recreational fisherman from Texas called several local boat captains harassing him from the audience a derogatory name.

Enforcement officers restored order quickly and the recreational fisherman completed his time at the podium without further incident.

In contrast Thursday, many of the captains who spoke said they regretted being forced into advocating for the split while at the same time acknowledging a belief that after years of failed hope and promises of a better system, it was the best option on the table right now to ensure they can survive to fish and thrive while doing it.

Most private anglers who commented said they understood the captains' desire to work toward doing what was best for their businesses.

Skipper Thierry, captain of the headboat "Escape" out of Dauphin Island, said he envisions sector separation allowing the entire for-hire component to build on the "huge success" he's seen as a member of the headboat exempted fishing permit pilot program.

That program allocated a percentage of the recreational quota to 17 headboats, known as such since they can carry up to 60 people fishing at a time, including those who scheduled a trip and day-of walk-ons.
Headboat captains received a certain number of tags that has allowed them to catch whatever number of red snapper they chose per trip since Jan. 1. 
They have to stop catching red snapper either when they run out of tags or federal regulators determine that the recreational sector's share of the Gulfwide red snapper quota has been caught.
"Let's build off of the success of the headboat EFP program," Thierry said. "The law says under Magnuson-Stevens (the federal law governing all U.S. fisheries management) and a federal judge ruled that we have to be accountable for our fish. Let's not hold back a segment of the fishery that has a plan to be accountable."

Thierry also called it "despicable" the realistic chance that all of the 2015 recreational sector red snapper quota will be caught from state water if Gulf Coast states once again chose not to comply with federal season lengths.

If that becomes the case, Bobby Kelly said he and other Orange Beach captains, some of whom own more than one boat, have already agreed that they will respond by dropping the federal permit held on one of the vessels and begin fishing open state waters.

The question then becomes how the smaller population of red snapper living on sparser reef structure in that shallower water holds up to the increased fishing pressure.

The implication is that it won't hold up well at all.

Many private anglers, such as Marcus Kennedy of Mobile, said consideration of Amendment 40 was just another example of the flawed management of red snapper that, despite a healthy population of fish, still results in shorter and shorter season lengths.

"I know many of you as individuals are good people, but the National Marine Fisheries Service as a federal entity is by its very nature inefficient and incapable of doing us any good," Kennedy said. "Y'all are batting a-thousand with your red snapper management. Every scheme you burden us with has the same result -- year after year of shorter seasons and less access to our home-grown and very abundant resource.

Kennedy pointed out that federal managers like to blame the Magnuson-Stevens Act for all their unpopular rules and regulations, but noted they seem to ignore many statutes within it that use phrases like "fisheries management plans must be designed to maximize recreational fishing opportunities."

"Y'all do just the opposite, closing red snapper, amberjack, grouper and triggerfish all at the same time and during June when the kids just got out of school and everyone wants to go fishing," he said.

In Amendment 40, Kennedy said that if sector separation is forced on the recreational sector, current plans give quota to the charter fleet based on catch totals that include years when there were nearly three times as many charter boats as there are today.

"Doing that will result in an unfair allocation, leading to a situation where once state seasons are considered, there will be no federal red snapper season for private boat recreational anglers," Kennedy concluded.

Another public hearing on sector separation will be held from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. Aug. 19 at the Courtyard by Marriott at 1600 East Beach Boulevard in Gulfport.


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## sniperpeeps (Mar 5, 2011)

http://m.thedestinlog.com/news/captain-s-log-red-snapper-sector-separation-reality-1.356652?tc=cr


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## spinfactor (Sep 22, 2013)

I just sent in my comment and below is what I said. Might have went a little overboard but this whole mater pisses me off. I spent good money buying a boat for my family to fish and all we do is deal with regulation after regulation. 


"Our rights to fish for what ever species of fish is already cut back so badly that many of us consider not even going any more and you folks want to cut deeper? 

Why don't you people use your heads for a change and require every charter boat company to register every individual they take fishing for an annual out of state or in state fishing license and use the proceeds to build more and larger reefs. 

Why do you think we're having this issue? Build more reefs and build them larger. Come on, this isn't rocket science, God knows the Feds and States bring in enough income. Besides, look at what it will do for our economy. 

What is wrong with you people?"


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

:thumbup: Well said !


spinfactor said:


> I just sent in my comment and below is what I said. Might have went a little overboard but this whole mater pisses me off. I spent good money buying a boat for my family to fish and all we do is deal with regulation after regulation.
> 
> 
> "Our rights to fish for what ever species of fish is already cut back so badly that many of us consider not even going any more and you folks want to cut deeper?
> ...


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Mark Collins said:


> Yes I am
> I carry rec fishermen to catch THEIR daily creel limit. and I am simply a driver/un tangler/net or gaff man
> I do not think any BOAT should get their own personal quota.
> take away the blanket fishing license that covers the boat, make customers purchase a fishing license and then your customers have their own creel limit.
> ...


Mark I agree. 

By the way when it cools off in Oct I need you to take me Crappie fishing.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

They will not sell me a blanket fishing license for the boat like they do the saltwater boats, so every client must purchase their own license with their own daily creel limit !

Game fish designation will stop all the problems, once you get the commercial guys out !


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Chet88 said:


> Mark I agree.
> 
> By the way when it cools off in Oct I need you to take me Crappie fishing.


Give me a shout, October is a great time here


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## jdgator (Apr 16, 2014)

Mark Collins said:


> Game fish designation will stop all the problems, once you get the commercial guys out !


This needs to be shouted from the highest mountains.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

The price of my trips will remain the same. I've got well over 100 spots inside FL waters from the line to Pensacola pass that all have fish on them. It's only 14miles to my furthest spot. We don't run anywhere when we snapper fish, we troll. I also have 2 loads of coups sitting and waiting to be deployed as well. 

Amend 40 is going to go through. I truly don't believe public testimony will change this. It is an accountable fisheries management plan, exactly what the judge mandated. And if it fails we will have grounds to file suit. It's that simple. You can holler fish thieves all you want because I'm a charter but the way I see it the states are stealing the fish from all of us. 

I get it, your all upset at the thought of someone being able to go catch a snapper and you can't. I watched it for 54 days this year. You get all upset at the idea of the 1600 boats catching 54% and now it's 1300. NMFS counts landings, not permits. I promise you way less then 1200 boats is catching our share of the landings. Here's another news flash. Not every permit holder is a valid CFH operator.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Whats the name of your boat?


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

Com'on Tom, your going to get your shake down of fish and you know it! Please stop threatening the Florida rec anglers that your going to come catch all of our fish. If you don't get your way that just means that you and your boys at CFA didn't get the job done, don't already be making plans to punish others. Since your taking all of my fish are you at least going to buy me a beer in Biloxi?


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Chris Phillips said:


> Com'on Tom, your going to get your shake down of fish and you know it! Please stop threatening the Florida rec anglers that your going to come catch all of our fish. If you don't get your way that just means that you and your boys at CFA didn't get the job done, don't already be making plans to punish others. Since your taking all of my fish are you at least going to buy me a beer in Biloxi?


Man I'm sorry if it seems like we're threatening you or bragging about what's up and coming. The declaration to come fish in FL state waters is just what's going to happen man. We played nice this year because of the EFP we're hoping to get but if that and 40 flops, which I doubt because of the mandate, but we're gonna catch them next year. 

If Ard won't but you a beer I will. I'll even buy you a steak but not your whole crew I saw you with in Mobile. Those boys could eat.

Btw I own the Miss Brianna and Liquid Therapy
Capt Bobby Kelly
251-747-3126


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## Chris Phillips (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks Bobby! I have permits, but I don't support sector separation. It's just not right!


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## Matt Mcleod (Oct 3, 2007)

It is foolish to believe more government will solve a problem too much government created. We will live to regret this.


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## Chet88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Matt Mcleod said:


> It is foolish to believe more government will solve a problem too much government created. We will live to regret this.


Truer words have never been spoken (typed). Dead on assessment.


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## jgraham154 (Jul 15, 2008)

Well guys, they are closing amberjack august 25 to commercial and recreational in state and federal waters!! Wth??


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## cold beers (Oct 9, 2007)

jgraham154 said:


> Well guys, they are closing amberjack august 25 to commercial and recreational in state and federal waters!! Wth??


 
So, does this mean that the commercial fishermen taxi driver, I mean charter for hire will still be able to keep AJ's if amendment 40 passes?


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## Jquinn5611 (Mar 28, 2014)

Is it possible that through pressure on our local politicians we could keep (get) the nine miles of water and let the state determine the season for recreational fisherman?


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

They already did. For snapper and trigger. But I doubt they would touch amberjack


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Gator McKlusky said:


> on August 08, 2014 at 5:42 PM, updated August 08, 2014 at 9:43 PM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where's the science/economics proving the "_waves of visitors_" are all there to go snapper fishing on a charter boat? 

Has NOAA done a study? Before they start swallowing & touting these economic "_statistics_" as facts maybe they should send some researchers out to do a count/survey of the various visitors species and what they are doing. (I'll volunteer to survey the local nightclubs)

No doubt _some_ visitors come to go fishing, but I expect the vast majority come to lay on the beach, go out to eat, & get drunk at the FloraBama.

And as to these supposed "_fleets of charter-fishing boats_" .... well, what constitutes a "_fleet?_"


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