# My emails to Grover Robinson concerning Robert Turpin



## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

<U>*Email One: *</U></DIV></DIV>Dear Commissioner Robinson, </DIV></DIV>I am in utter dismay about what appears to be a complete lack of focus and sense of urgency by our own Escambia County Commissionerson the economic well being of Escambia County in regard to our marine resources.</DIV></DIV>Am I mistaken in my assessment thatthetens of thousands of dollars worth ofartificial reefs that were donated to Escambia County *<U>at no cost</U>* to the county have still not been deployed by the county in theinshore diving and fishing area that we fought so hard to get approved?Am I also mistakenthat none of the approved snorkeling reefs that we have worked so hard to gain public and regulatorysupport for have been deployed by ourcounty? Also,am I correct that *<U>the Escambia County employeedirectly responsible forthese deployments has been down in Key Westhelping Monroe County with the sinking ofKey West's latest marine tourist attraction -- the U.S.S. Vandenberg? </U>*DoMonroe County's marine tourist attractions now take precedenceoverEscambia County's and does our commission approve of sendingouremployees tohelp the economy of Monroe County when those same employees are telling citizensthey are too busy to do their jobs here?</DIV></DIV>I can't help but be puzzled by this bizarre situation and wonder what in the world is going onin the minds ofthe people running Escambia County's government.I can't help but wonder why I keep having to fight my own county todo what's right for ourmarine resourcesand then coming up against situations like this thatmake me think I'm living in Bizzarro County instead of Escambia County.As my commissioner, Iexpect that you fully understand howimportant whatprecious fewmarine tourist attractions we have are to the economic well being of Escambia County, or if you don't that you'll educate yourself on this issue.I'm sorry to say, I've seen little evidence of either. </DIV></DIV>The summer of 2009 isupon us and with it the opportunity to draw tourist divers andfishers toEscambia County-- not Monroe County -- and yet we have free reefs and an approved area to put themin, but the county employee responsible for doing this has beendown in Key West helping them.What'swrong with this picture?Is the mindset of theEscambia County Commissioners that Escambia County's economy can just wait until next year because Monroe County is more important? </DIV></DIV>Key West and Monroe County's Commissioners apparently don't have that same lackadaisical attitude. They understand the value of marine tourist attractions and jumped on the opportunity to add the Vandenberg to their already huge assortment of marineattractions. The Vandenberg will maketens of millions for Monroe County and it will take dollars out of Escambia County's coffers as diving tourist ignore the Oriskany which Escambia County bungled by sinking it too deep and too far out.On top of this -- there was no attempt by Escambia County to even look intoattaining the Vandenberg. </DIV></DIV>To find out that theEscambia County employee who was most responsible for bunglingthe sinking of the Oriskany and the same onewhodismissedcitizen inquiries about acquiring the Vandenbergfor Escambia Countyis now spending time in Key West to help Monroe County taketourists away from Escambia County has an irony about it that is truly stranger than fiction. </DIV></DIV>Please tellme if you approved ofRobert Turpinspending timein Key West helpingwith the sinking of the Vandenberg, and ignoring the job he is paid to do here? Escambia County hasreefs that are waiting to be deployed, that could be helping our economy right now.I understand that Mr.Turpin anallymandates thathe must personally supervise the loading of reefs on the deployment barge as well as personally supervise each sinking. If Mr. Turpin feels the need to be that obsessive/compulsive,fine, but if that is the case, why is Mr. Turpin sinking reefs in Key West instead ofdoing his job here to sink them for Escambia County?Whois footing the bill for Mr. Turpin's Key West trip while the citizens of Escambia County wait for the leftover scraps of his time?Please do nottell me that Escambia County actually paidto help Key West take tourists away from us or that will be the last straw. </DIV></DIV>I guesswe citizens ofEscambia County can only hope that Robert Turpin does for the Vandenberg what he did for the Oriskany, but unfortunately for Escambia County,I understand theVandenberg sank successfully and now sits six miles from shore with only 40 feet of water over her while the Oriskany currentlysits 25 miles out in 212 feet of water after sinking ten more feet into the soft bottomlast year. </DIV></DIV>Mr. Robinson, some weeks ago, Iforwardedyou a News Releaseconcerning aseminar describingthe economic benefits of artificial reefs being held in conjunction with the Vandenberg sinking and asked you to attend and to take as many commissioners with you as you could.Yours and the entire commission's attendance at this event would have been a worthy investmentof county money -- especially if you all gained insight into the tremendous economic potential ofartificial reefs forEscambia County.</DIV></DIV>But, you never responded back to me,so I assume you did not attend. This is very disappointing to me. This issue is of the utmost importance toEscambia County. We cannot afford to play second fiddle to any other county or state.Artificial reefs are the easiest, most productive way to increase economic prosperity in coastal areas, and you wouldknow that if you had attended thisseminar.Escambia County needs you-- our elected representative -- to be a leader in this area, but to be a leaderyou must educate yourself, but apparently you did not see the need. Now,to find out that Robert Turpinhas beenspending time in Key Westapparently with the approval of the commission when he is not doing his job here in Escambia County,makes me think ourcommissioners not only don't understand the issue, but simply don't care, and that is unacceptable to me and to every citizen of ourcounty.</DIV></DIV>Escambia County'sreefs need to be deployed NOW.I am pleading with you to see that Robert Turpin does his jobas soon as possible, and I am also asking you as my commissioner, to think about what Escambia County needs before you think about what Monroe County needs.</DIV></DIV></DIV><U>*Commissioner Robinson's Reply: *</U></DIV>*<U></U>*</DIV>Richard,

Thank you for your comments. I did get your emails on the Vandenburg. I am sorry I could not attend the event; however I should have corresponded that to you and I appologize for not doing so. At the same time, I have attended events for the betterment of recreational fishermen. 

As I told you before, I am not an expert and therefore rely on other that know the subject. I have been working during the past month with Edwin Roberts on the snapper issue. Unfortunately, I will be out of town later this month when he has both Florida and Federal fishing people hear. I plan to work with him as well on coordinating with Jeff Miller's office. 

While doing all this, I spoke at length with Edwin about the Oriskiny and the Vandenburg. Edwin confirms thant we had little control over the sinking of the Oriskiny. He also stated because of getting the Oriskiny we had no chance at the Vandenburg. He does believe we will again be able to get another ship, but time will have to ease the position of other more politically connected areas of the state first. 

As for Robert, I did not know he went to Key West. If he was ask to go there in some capacity to assist with our knowledge, we do that in the state of Florida. We have enlisted the help of other communities and their employees here when we need technical assistance. I know we have done that with Solid Waste and the landfill. 

With that said I do not know if we have delayed any deployment. We certainly should not have. With all that you have said this is the most troubling to me. I have been working hard with to get those snorkeling reefs and our eco-tourism started. I do not want any delay on our part. 

As always thank you for your concerns and passion. We may not also agree on the same degree, but I know you are helping us make a better county and appreciate that sincerely. 

Grover

*<U>My Second Email: </U>*</DIV>*<U></U>*</DIV>Dear Commissioner Robinson,

Thank you for your reply. I am not surprised that you were unaware of Mr. 
Turpin's trip to Key West. This is one more example, in the long list of 
examples, of Mr. Turpin's poor judgment -- like last year when Mr. Turpin 
finally wrote the permit request for the expansion of the western LAARS area 
and included shipping channels, pipelines and sand borrow sites in the 
permit request which assured the permit's would be denied before it ever got 
started.

I wish I had a nickel for how many times concerned citizens have told me 
they approached Mr. Turpin about the status of our artificial reef issues -- 
especially in regard to the in shore reef deployments -- only to be told by 
him how busy he was with other issues (boat ramps for instance) and that he 
would "get to it as soon as he could." Now to hear that he has time to go to 
Key West and get involved with Monroe County's marine tourist attractions 
while we have reefs waiting to be deployed here is beyond unacceptable to me 
and to everyone I've talked to about it. In fact, it galls me to no end. If 
Mr. Turpin was presiding over a successful reef program here in Escambia 
County, it would be different, but he is not -- and the reason is him 
personally.

Whether it's because Mr. Turpin is vindictive to those who have been 
critical of his job performance, or has some other ulterior motives, or 
simply that his personality is so ill-suited to his position, I don't know, 
but the bottom line is that Mr. Turpin is not now doing, nor has he ever 
adequately done the job he was hired to do for Escambia County, and the 
citizens of Escambia County not only continue to suffer because of his ego 
and obstinateness, but are throwing away money on his salary and expenses. 
It pains me to say this since I believe you to be sincere, but it appears 
the only recourse for the citizens of Escambia County is to hold our elected 
officials responsible for the lack of progress that we continue to see from 
Mr. Turpin's office. We actually have quite a bit of political clout with 
the different stakeholders, and I intend to ask these citizens in my 
district and in other districts to vote on this issue. Either the Escambia 
County Commission forces Mr. Turpin to do his job or replaces him with 
someone who will, or I will hold the commissioners responsible and seek 
candidates who will listen to the voice of the citizens of our county. I 
hate to be harsh, but we simply can't continue to ignore our marine 
resources while other Florida counties and neighboring states charge full 
speed ahead.

This isn't just about people who like water sports and people who don't. 
Developing our marine resource is the easiest way to increase economic 
prosperity for every Escambia County citizen. What is simpler than dropping 
something on the bottom of the Gulf, but Mr. Turpin makes it more difficult 
than a moon launch. Artificial reefs return your investment at about 30 to 
1. For the two short years before it sank out of reach, the Oriskany was 
bringing millions of dollars into Escambia County coffers. I personally met 
and talked to dozens of European tourists -- not to mention the thousands 
from the Southeast -- who specifically came to Pensacola to dive the 
Oriskany. Where do you think they'll go now? Why don't we have other ships 
and artificial reefs lined up to sink in Pensacola waters? Oh wait. Escambia 
County does have nearly 100 free artificial reefs. They are sitting on dry 
land waiting to be sunk, but Mr. Turpin has been too busy in Monroe County 
to do the job he is paid to do in Escambia County. I apologize for the 
sarcasm, but if you only knew how frustrated I am with Mr. Turpin, you would 
applaud my restraint.

Almost since the beginning of his tenure, we enthusiastically asked Mr. 
Turpin to secure in-shore reef areas and beach snorkeling reefs to add to 
our meager repertoire of marine tourist attractions. Finally, about two 
years ago, we got tired of asking Mr. Turpin to do his job, and we formed a 
grass-roots movement to build public support and pressure Mr. Turpin to do 
what should have been a no-brainer for our county if we had an ounce of 
foresight and any leadership at all from Mr. Turpin's office. We called our 
effort "Vision Underwater Pensacola" and a group of us began to talk to 
anyone who would listen. Natalie Prim at the Pensacola Chamber graciously 
gave me her time, and I explained the issue to her and she related it to 
other chamber members, and we made presentations at every single chamber 
across Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties.

At each chamber, we heard the same thing -- "this is a great idea --why 
haven't we done this before now?" We told them straight up. "We've been 
asking Mr. Turpin to do this for years and for whatever reason, he has not, 
so we're asking for your help to build public pressure on this issue." The 
Perdido Chamber told us they get calls from tourists requesting snorkeling 
sites nearly everyday and other beach chambers told us the same. Just 
yesterday, one of the dive shops told me they sent tourists to Destin 
because the tourists wanted to stay somewhere they could snorkel. What is 
wrong with our county that we don't understand the value of our marine 
resource to our economy and have some modicum of vision and urgency in 
developing it, and why do our citizens have to fight Mr. Turpin's office 
simply to do what's good for the county when counties all around us don't 
seem to have the same problems? There are only two possible answers. Either 
Mr. Turpin's philosophy on these issues is at odds with the citizens of 
Escambia County or Mr. Turpin is incompetent. There are no other choices and 
neither is acceptable for our county.

Many other counties in Florida -- not just Monroe -- and neighboring states 
are moving ahead at light speed while Escambia County is still moving at a 
snail's pace. I recently read of huge marine park being developed off of Key 
Biscayne. Neptune Memorial Reef http://www.nmreef.com/AllAboutTheReef/ not 
only will be a snorkeling and diving destination resort, it allows the 
cremated remains of those who love the sea to be a part of the reef as a 
memorial, and never mind that Alabama is sinking reefs at a pace of 1000 to 
1 to Escambia County. How are they able to this and we can't even get a 
place for people to snorkel off Pensacola Beach without an act of Congress? 
And, when we finally do get a homerun like the Oriskany, it gets bungled by 
Mr. Turpin's stubbornness.

I will stand by my conviction that we could have put the Oriskany in closer 
and shallower until I see some evidence to the contrary. I have heard from 
people instrumental in the sinking who have told me that it was Mr. Turpin 
who insisted that it go as far out as possible. In fact, Mr. Turpin's own 
public statements contradict what he is now saying. At the "Reef Round 
Table" held at the Civic Center last year, Mr. Turpin said that he insisted 
on sinking the Oriskany deep enough to keep divers from having easy access 
to the hanger deck. Please check the minutes to see Mr. Turpin's own public 
remarks that contradict what he is now telling you. Mr. Turpin wants it both 
ways. He wants to take credit and say he was responsible for the Oriskany 
when it is favorable for him to do so, but wants to distance himself from 
responsibility when it is obvious that he mishandled it. Either he was 
responsible for the Oriskany or he was not. If he was not, why do we need 
him? If he was, he must take the responsibility for screwing up what could 
have paid large dividends to Escambia County for many decades to come. Mr. 
Turpin's would not allow anyone to give him advice on the matter, and now 
won't admit his error. I ask the question again, why does Monroe County, 
Florida get to sink the Vandenberg with 40 feet of water over her only six 
miles from shore? Either because of an act of commission or an act of 
omission on Mr. Turpin's part, the Oriskany is 25 miles out and now has 80 
feet over the highest point and only a fraction of the ship is accessible, 
and Escambia County is receiving only a fraction of the economic impact it 
would have had Mr. Turpin not been leading this parade.

Two years ago, we began our grassroots effort to end-run Mr. Turpin's office 
and develop marine tourist attractions in spite of him, we asked everyone to 
appeal to every level of government including all federal, state and local 
representatives and key community leaders in Escambia and Santa Rosa 
Counties including media. Sure enough, nine years into Mr. Turpin's tenure, 
we finally got the ball rolling on some tiny in-shore reef areas and beach 
snorkeling reefs, but make no mistake about it, this came about not as a 
result of any initiative from Mr. Turpin's office, but because citizens of 
Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties spent their own time and money building 
public awareness and pressuring Mr. Turpin to do the job he was being paid 
to do, but simply wouldn't for whatever reason. The current situation with 
Mr. Turpin is completely unacceptable to me.

Does it make sense to you that now, as summer is upon us, Escambia County 
still has no in-shore reefs deployed nor any snorkeling reefs deployed, and 
tourists are bypassing Pensacola for other destinations, while Mr. Turpin 
magically has time to make a Key West trip to be center stage for Monroe 
County to deploy a huge marine tourist attraction that will take dollars 
away from our own county? I am still waiting to hear who paid for his trip. 
I can't imagine Escambia County paid to help Monroe County take tourist 
dollars away from us, but nothing about Robert Turpin's office surprises me 
anymore.

I respectfully ask for you to investigate this matter and to let me know 
what you find and to hold Mr. Turpin responsible for the poor job 
performance that he continues to exhibit.

Also, I am asking that the Marine Advisory Committee be restructured and an 
agenda of the issues to be discussed at each meeting be published at least a 
week prior to each meeting. As I see it, the committee appears to be in 
violation of the Sunshine Law since three of the members of the committee 
work in the same business with the chairman and another member not only 
being life long business partners but long time life partners as well. 
Whether committee issues are discussed out of the public eye or not, I 
cannot say, but having three committee members including the chairman that 
work together in the same business every day and live together as life 
partners gives the appearance of impropriety even if none exists.

An agenda would force some discipline on the committee and allow more public 
participation on the individual issues that concern them. The committee has 
long used the lack of an agenda to discuss and pass controversial issues 
whenever they see public opposition is absent. An agenda would allow the 
public to be there when an issue was being discussed that was of interest to 
them.

Thank you for your attention to these issues and I look forward to hearing 
from you.

</DIV><U></U></DIV></DIV>


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## donedealin (Jan 3, 2008)

Get em' rich .Very nice ,couldn't have said any better.Dougie


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

All I know to say is WOW!!opcorn

Anyone who read my CCW saga post knows that I am no stranger to political incompetance. Sounds like you have stepped in a BIG OLD STINKING PILE of the worst sort. 

I think that you will have to have turpin removed before it gets fixed. Even if you force him to do his job, he will drag his feet at every possible impasse. You need someone excited to do their job, not someone who is willing to be mediocre to incompetant at it.

Under what circumstances can he be removed? What is his official position? Does Turpin work under the county commission, or is it a seperate office? Would it require a board vote to remove him?

That Sunshine law business could work to force him out.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

i believe that it takes 3 commissioners to vote him out of his job.

someone can chime in and correct me if i'm wrong.


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## tailfisher (Oct 7, 2007)

vote him out and put Paul Redman in the spot. Then maybe we wouldnt have to wait forever and a day.


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## fishitall (Oct 22, 2007)

And Grover needs a little help with his grammer. I know I started the sentence with "And", it was intentional.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Here we go....<H1>Escambia Florida County Commissioners</H1><UL><LI>District 1
Wilson Robertson 
(850) 595-4910 email <LI>District 2
Gene Valentino 
(850) 595-4920 email <LI>District 3
Marie Young (Chair)
(850) 595-4930 email <LI>District 4
Grover Robinson (Vice Chair)
(850) 595-4940 email <LI>District 5
Kevin White 
(850) 595-4950 email</LI>[/list]


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

_The county is governed by the board of county commissioners. Escambia County is divided into five districts. One county commissioner is elected from each district to serve a four-year term. Commissioners are chosen in partisan elections by voters from the districts in which they live. The board appoints a county administrator to be chief administrative officer of the county, responsible to the commission for the orderly operations of matters within the board?s jurisdiction._



Two Board of County Commissioners (BCC) Regular Meetings are generally held each month on the 1st and 3rd Thursdays at 5:30 p.m., with the Public Forum beginning at 4:30 p.m. prior to the start of the Regular Meeting, unless otherwise noted. An Agenda Review Work Session is held on regular meeting dates at 9:00am. Committee of the Whole (C/W) meetings begin at 9:00 a.m. All BCC, Agenda Review and C/W meetings will be held in the Board Chambers, Room 100, 221 Palafox Place. All Joint City-County meetings will be held in the Hagler Mason Conference Room, Second Floor, City Hall. Other special meetings may be scheduled to handle specific topics. The meeting schedule is published in the Pensacola News Journal every Sunday

Both Regular BCC Thursday night meetings are televised "live" on Cox Cablevision, Channel 4. The Brighthouse Network will carry one hour of the board meeting tape delayed in an available time slot at their discretion. All meetings subject to change. The BCC, C/W and Agenda Review Work Sessions are broadcast live on the web starting approx. 5 minutes prior to the meeting. This may be accessed by the "View Live Video" link from the 2008 BCC Schedule page.

The 2008 BCC Schedule page lists all the BCC, Committee of the Whole and Joint City-County meetiings for the calendar year. Beside each meeting is a link to an agenda, in Adobe PDF format, that is posted approximately a week before the meeting. This document contains, in addition to the meeting agenda, the reports of the Clerk of the Circuit Court, Growth Management, the County Administrator and the County Attorney. After each meeting the Clerk of the Circuit Court makes available resumes and minutes of the meeting as explained below.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

*The emails to the BOCCare off base,misdirected and incorrect.*

Yes, There have been some complications with the deployment, but it will commence any day now. These complications have nothing to do the Vandenburg, nor is accurate to say that Robt Turpin has notbeen diligent on this project. As a partner representing SRCin financingthis deployment,I can tell you I have been in touch with Robt15x to 20x each week since SRC approved funding; he has been on the ball at all times!In addition to some weather issues, we have had some unfortunatedelays.

I am not going to get into a pissing match with uniformed people, nor amI going to point fingers,but I will tell you that the current contractor has been on the job since Monday. WhenI left the jobsite today at approx. *1pm* there was a total of *1 reef module* and a piece for ballast, for 3.5 days work on the barge. *You do the math!*

We are currently reviewing our options tofinish the job in as quick a manner as possible. All these emails do is slow the process down because the County then needs to stop what their doing and respond to this silliness!

This isa great cooperative effort of SRC, Esc Cty, and the RFRA working together for a common goal to help the citizens; it is unfortunate that somewould lettheir personal issues outweigh the benefits of what we are doing.

Regardless of the delay we are moving at an unprecedent pace with this deployment, it would be ashame if some disgruntled people endangered the future of other similar endeavors!

By the way, the 100 plus hoursI have in this project didn't make me 1 nickel, and I donate my time for the cause!I'm getting it done because I thought it was a worth while project. 

We should be celebrating this project, not defending it, this is a disappointing result!!!

<P align=center>*PLEASE*<P align=center>


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## Msstdog (Sep 28, 2007)

Dont know if this is the reef project your talking about, but this came across the Data Fax yesterday. Looks like the project reveiw has been pushed to Sept 2, 2009.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Msstdog (6/4/2009)*Dont know if this is the reef project your talking about, but this came across the Data Fax yesterday. Looks like the project reveiw has been pushed to Sept 2, 2009.


*The project you mentionhas nothing to do with the nearshore Countydeployment, loading is curently in progress for the 1st phase*.


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## Msstdog (Sep 28, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Msstdog (6/4/2009)*Dont know if this is the reef project your talking about, but this came across the Data Fax yesterday. Looks like the project reveiw has been pushed to Sept 2, 2009.
> ...


Cool does this mean we have two close to shore reef projects ongoing. Also so Im not in the dark where is the general location of the reef project you guys are refering to. Is it inshore or closer than the fore mention 5 mile to shore project.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't have a horse in this race other than to say that most of the time, if it sounds like government incompetance, most of the time it is.

Some questions for Pirate:

How long has this project been underway to place these reefs?

Is Robert down in south florida on his own time and dime or on the county time and dime?

What is the main impediments to completing these projects? I know you listed the contractor as being at fault. Who is in charge of him? What is his problem? Is he under a time restraint to finish?

What is the current deadline for completion?

Appropriate answers to these questions would go a long way to make sure that both sides of this story is told and heard.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *angus_cow_doctor (6/4/2009)*I don't have a horse in this race other than to say that most of the time, if it sounds like government incompetance, most of the time it is.
> 
> Some questions for Pirate:
> 
> ...


 <UL><LI>The project was just approved by the SRC BOCC for funding, I believein April, and then of course Escambia had to be notifed and receive our letter of support.</LI><LI>I was probably aggressive thinking we could make Memorial day, but the weather was also an issue.</LI><LI>I never said the contractor was at fault, I just gave you the facts, you can draw your own conclusions</LI><LI>The Vandenburg issue is not my business and I don't know, and I don't care. Robt is an expert in my opinion in these type of deployments, maybe they wanted his expertise, if so good for him, and prestigeousfor Esc Cty to have such a person employed by the County!</LI><LI>I understand from my 10th phone call on this subject 5 minutes ago, that the 1st phase could be completed anytime this weekend or the beginning of the week. Ask the Contractor!</LI><LI>As for the balance of the contract,I willbe happy to post when I have a concrete answer, but soon, ASAP!</LI>[/list]


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## biggamefishr (Oct 26, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)*
> 
> 
> 
> The Vandenburg issue is not my business and I don't know, and I don't care. Robt is an *expert* in my opinion in these type of deployments, maybe they wanted his expertise, if so good for him, *and prestigeousfor Esc Cty to have such a person employed by the County!*




hahahahaha...what makes him an expert? it must be the ridiculous amount of reefs he's put out....right? or maybe it was the wonderfully thought out sinking of the mighty O which is now to deep for most recreational divers to enjoy....about the only thing he has successfully managed to sink is a county vehicle


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)**The emails to the BOCCare off base,misdirected and incorrect.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So, was Robert Turpin in Key West while the Vandenberg was deployed? Blaming it on the contractor just sounds too easy. The contractor wants his money and doesn't get it until the reefs are deployed right? So it wouldn't make too much sense for them to be dragging ass. Or are you saying that in the vetting process of choosing a contractor to do this job, Mr. Turpin chose an under-qualified(and lazy) contractor? I understand you defending Robert b/c you have to work closely with him on many projects, but if he is not the bottleneck of ALOT of attempted projects for Escambia/Santa Rosa county, then who is??


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## FishinFool (Oct 2, 2007)

....about the only thing he has successfully managed to sink is a county vehicle[/quote]

Now that's funny right there! :clap LMAO


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Wharf Rat (6/4/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)*So, was Robert Turpin in Key West while the Vandenberg was deployed? Blaming it on the contractor just sounds too easy. The contractor wants his money and doesn't get it until the reefs are deployed right? So it wouldn't make too much sense for them to be dragging ass. Or are you saying that in the vetting process of choosing a contractor to do this job, Mr. Turpin chose an under-qualified(and lazy) contractor? I understand you defending Robert b/c you have to work closely with him on many projects, but if he is not the bottleneck of ALOT of attempted projects for Escambia/Santa Rosa county, then who is??
> ...


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *biggamefishr (6/4/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)*
> ...


*Josh, that is unfortunate that you wouldpost something like this, I am disappointed!*


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Wharf Rat (6/4/2009)*
> ...


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## Drew Mixon (Oct 4, 2007)

pirate, 

how long have you been in escambia county? and how long have you known robert turpin? just curious.

cheers.

drew


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Drew Mixon (6/4/2009)*pirate,
> 
> how long have you been in Escambia county? and how long have you known robert turpin? just curious.
> 
> ...


*DREW,* 

I have hadproperty in both Counties for about 16 years. To be short, whenI met Robt, around 2000/2001, we were at opposite ends of the Little Sabine Bay No wake issue, *he was my ENEMY*! 

However, over the yearsI got to know and understand him better and thenI was fortunate enough to serve on a committee with him, the SRC MAC, that I now Chair! I got an even a better understanding of his passions, weaknesses and viewpoints. 

My opinion of this one time *enemy and villain*....heIS one of our *greatest assets,* not onlyfor Esc County, but as a Marine, Fishing, and Reef oriented person. He works tireless hours, days, nights , weekends, anytime. He told me tonight, if our contractor wants to deploy these reefs Saturday or Sunday, THIS WEEKEND; no problem with him. and this is not because of the complaints, this is just the way he is! 

Sometimes we are wrong about people,I am man enough to admit it, and becausei was so wrong in the beginning,I resent the constant bashing this dedicated man endures. 

There is a group here that would like to get him fired....I view that as huge mistake! I truly do not believe there is anyone that wouldwork as hard as he does for all of the things that forum members clamor for!


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

b pirate

i have not lived in the area for 16 years only 40, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that ESCAMBIA county government has been, and is now, a joke. the good county employees are embarrassed by their own leaders.

turpin talks in circles and is full of it, and himself.

keep after em florabama!!! thanks!!!:bowdown

and thanks to you b pirate for your work in santa rosa.:bowdown

both your involvementsare appreciated.:clap


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks, everyone for your support. I'm finished with being nice about the total lack of progress and mismanagement ofour marine resoucesby Turpin's office.Since he is a county employee, the only way we will get thissituation fixed is to let the County Commissioners knowwe plan to hold them accountableon election day. I personally plan to try to find a candidate who willcommitte toreplaceRobert Turpin and campaign for that candidate in the next election. 

Bay Pirate, of course you are welcome to your opinion, and I respect it, but at the same time I would ask you to respect mine. I competely disagree with your assessment of Turpin's performance. Please list for me the in-state reefs that have been sunk in the Gulf by Turpin inthe 10 years of his tenure?If you can put up one, I'll withdrawmy thread.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

Bay_pirate, 

Sounds like he gave you an out on Turpin. How about it? Can you name any inshore reefs?

????????


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## Voodoo Lounge (Sep 28, 2007)

How bout an at a boy for a change!!! Glad to see some progress being made, thanks for all the hard work RT and BP. As far as the bashing goes, I'm sure if there's anyone out there who thinks they can do a better job, put your name in the hat!!!!


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

I will say that I have read the requirements that are in place for someone to deploy a reef, and they are a little extreme. Turpin, or his designee has to personally be on site before a reef is loaded on the barge, and some percentage has to be checked post deployment, and you have to have sufficient bond to cover the ressurection of the reef should it be found slightly off of coordinates. That is alot of bureacracy.

What happened to the good old days of pushing stuff off a barge with a bulldozer? In the dead of night? Like the military did with the tanks?


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Florabama (6/5/2009)*Thanks, everyone for your support. I'm finished with being nice about the total lack of progress and mismanagement ofour marine resoucesby Turpin's office.Since he is a county employee, the only way we will get thissituation fixed is to let the County Commissioners knowwe plan to hold them accountableon election day. I personally plan to try to find a candidate who willcommitte toreplaceRobert Turpin and campaign for that candidate in the next election.
> 
> Bay Pirate, of course you are welcome to your opinion, and I respect it, but at the same time I would ask you to respect mine. I competely disagree with your assessment of Turpin's performance. Please list for me the in-state reefs that have been sunk in the Gulf by Turpin inthe 10 years of his tenure?If you can put up one, I'll withdrawmy thread.




Rich,

You are certianly entitled to your opinion, but it is sowell documented on how you hateRT, it is difficult to be objective. I am not going to spend a lot of time on researching reef projects. I was personallytold by the FWC reef people in Jon Dodrils office, that *the year weweredumping I10 debris in reef site, we put more reef material in the water than the entire rest of the State of Fl combined!!!!* I find that pretty damn complimentary to his efforts.

Also, for everyone's info, the current contractor is now loaded with medium to small reefmodulesand _weather permitting_ will deploy *8 reef sites...MONDAY*!

Turpin has arranged the balance of the deployment for somewhere between 15th and the 25th of June by Walters marine( I had a hand in that), and ...*that dirty rat* has also taken some donated money and purchased 4 more reefs from Walters, that will also be deployed in the same near shore site......!!

Ican't stand it,I think I will send a nasty email and complain we are putting out extra reefsmyself!


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## FISHBOXFULL (May 9, 2008)

that the year weredumping I10 debris in reefs site, we put more reef material in the water than the entire rest of the State of Fl!!!! 

Does anyone have the numbers from this I-10 debris????


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## UnderWater Angler (Jul 18, 2008)

I remember last year when a magazine, I think it was Florida Sportsman, came out and listed something about the counties of Florida and their reef programs. It had Escambia County as deploying the most artificial reefs in the past year, we were #!!!!! It also said that we have one of the largest concentrations of artificial reefs in Florida. I mean, we do have the largest artificial reef in the world, sounds like he's doing a pretty damn good job to me. 



What's you issue with a professional, known for his expertise, going to a fellow Florida county to help with a project as large as the Vandenberg. Do you really believe that there were no other counties represented when the Oriskany sank. It would seem strange to me if he had not gone down there. 



Way to go Turpin and Bay Pirate keep up the good work, don't worry about the nay-sayers. Let 'em talk all the shit they want while they head out to the reefs ya'll have deployed!:letsdrink


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## reelnutz (Feb 16, 2008)

> *FISHBOXFULL (6/5/2009)*that the year weredumping I10 debris in reefs site, we put more reef material in the water than the entire rest of the State of Fl!!!!
> 
> Does anyone have the numbers from this I-10 debris????




Eric Call me i'll give them to ya!


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

ALL OF THE I-10 RUBBLE IS IN FEDERAL WATERS --NOT STATE!!!!


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

> *cobe killer (6/5/2009)*ALL OF THE I-10 RUBBLE IS IN FEDERAL WATERS --NOT STATE!!!!




So the feds put it there? So are 90% of the reefs Alabama deploys. Isn't the Oriskany too? I don't get your point. Just throwing a red herring out there to try and fire up those that don't know any better?


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *Bay Pirate (6/4/2009)* As I said Hall,I don't want to get in a pissing match especially with those that don't know the real facts.I feel my response above is adequate for a reasonable person to have questionof why these emails are circulating at this *early* stage in the project.


Jeff,

I would venture to say that there are few citizens that are more educated on this specific issue than those dedicated citizens of both Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties who participated in the Vision Underwater Pensacola movement that single handedly created this oportunity for you and Mr. Turpin. To refer to these people as "those that don't know the real facts" is assinine. Those citizens that diligently dedicated their time to pressure Mr. Turpin to do his job are absolutely puzzled that these FREE REEFS donated by Vision Underwater Pensacola have still not been placed in the water. That is the bottom line. If you cannot understand why we are so frustrated by watching Mr. Turpin take his precious time, which by his own admission is extremely limited, and wasting it on another County's project then you are further gone than I thought you were. We the members of Vision Underwater Pensacola do not care who gets the credit for placing these reefs in the Gulf. We would be more than happy for these reefs to be in the waterso thatyou and Mr. Turpin would be able to pat each other on the back, but you've got a long way to go before you can claim that you or Mr. Turpin have done more for this project than the private citizens that fought so hard for this. 

The bottom line Jeff is that I won't get in a pissing match with you. We are all aware that you support Robert no matter what. It is a given that any time that anybody raises a question about Robert's performance then you rush to his defense. You, like Keith Wilkins, and the County Commissioners believe that Robert can do no wrong. Well, I'm tired of it. I from this day forward will begin mysearch for a canditate for County Commissionerthat will replace Robert. I don't care what they do with him, move him to another department, or move him to another position, but he must be replaced.Not onlywill Inot vote for a County Commissioner that supports Robert, but I will actively campaign against those that continue to look the other way while Robert continues to blunder our Marine Resources.


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

wharf rat this is why i said federal waters. the question to jeff was about statewater reefs.

"Please list for me the *in-state reefs* that have been sunk in the Gulf by Turpin inthe 10 years of his tenure?If you can put up one, I'll withdrawmy thread." 


we need reefs(lots of them) in state waters so that when the feds want to shut everything down we can still fish OUR waters.


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

Jeff, it seems you are theonly one who has thefactswrong and won't consider the other side of this issue.Again, that's fine. I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree with you. 

Here are the facts: 

In the 10 years that the citizens of Escambia County have paid Mr.Turpin $70,000 a year, provided him a vehicle (two if you count the one he sunk at the boat ramp:banghead), boat and dive gear, and paid for his diving,fishing and fuel, he has put exactly ZERO reefs in state waters. None, nada, zip. 

As I figure it that's roughly $100,000 a year for 10 years. For the taxpayer'sone million dollars, we have gotten almost nothing frompaying Mr. Turpin to fish and dive on our dime. 

As has been made clear, the beach snorkeling reefs, and the tiny little reefs sites around the 3-Barges and Massachucetts were not Mr. Turpin's idea. In fact, he and Cliff Paynefought them tooth and nail. They both only aquiesced when we worked to build public support bymaking presentationsto everyChamber of Commerce in Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties; the Pensacola News Journal; reporters at WEARTV; and our local politicians. Since I was one of the one's spending my time and money to make these presentations, Iknow of what I speak. 

I can tell you that my own county representative did not have a clue when we firstapproached him. He does now. Turpin and Payne -- both being weasels -- bowed to public pressureand we got the tiny 2 mile site around the3 Barges anda 2 mile site around the Mass. 

At this time, we also asked Turpin to write a permit for the expansion of western LAARS and he purposely wrote it to include shipping channels, pipe-lines and sand borrow sites so it would be easily denied by the ACOE. I have a letter from the ACOE to one of our members that proves it was denied for exactly this reason. 

The reefs for the little 3-Barges site were donated to the county at no cost. All the county has to do is sink them, but Turpin continues to drag his feet and find excuses not to put them out, but he magically finds time to have a Key Westtrip to talk about how great our reef program is. If they only knew. 

So it tookTurpin 10 years to get us 4 miles of in-state reef area -- and only then because citizens took matters into their own hands -- at the same time we lost other LAARS areas and he's talking about withdrawingwestern LAARS and increasing reef size to make it impossible for individuals to sink reefs from small boats. 

Yes, it's great that a hurricane came along and knocked down our bridges, and I know Mr. Turpin thinks alot of himself, but I don't think he can quite take credit for causing a hurricane to knock don't our bridges.This material got sunk in federal waters forcommercial fishermen toutilize it365 days a year while recreational fishermennow have about90 days a year to fish for snapper. If you call that progress, I have a new bridge to sell you. 

Turpin had no more to do with theOriskany than he had to do withthe tiny in-state sites we worked to secure. Yes, he helped to make presentations and so forth after other prominent Pensacolians like the late Admiral Federman and other community leaders worked to secure the ship for Pensacola. When the ship was secure, Turpin took over and promptly completely bungled the sinking because he was too arrogant to listen to anyone and wanted to play like the Big Man in charge. Now, the Oriskany is bringing in a tiny fraction of the revenue that it would have without Mr. Turpin's"leadership." 

If you call any of that "success," I don't know what to say. Mr. Turpin is the problem and he needs to be removed and I won't stop until he is. If that means finding a candidate to run against Grover Robinson and finding other candidates torun against other County Commissioners, so be it.


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *FishinFool (6/4/2009)*....about the only thing he has successfully managed to sink is a county vehicle




Now that's funny right there! :clap LMAO[/quote]



It's also completely inaccurate, inflammatory and feeding the flames of bullshit that seem to spread so widely here.



FYI, there's a billion tons of concrete from Ivan destroyed bridges you guys seem to ignore and the fact that the O had to be placed where it is. The ACOE is the obstruction keeping us in a losing race with Alabama and while I appreciate everyone's motivation and dedication you might be surprised that I suggest you temper your tone or piss off the very people whose support you need the most.





Florabama, are you in the dive business? Is business bad right now since the O started to slide? I ask because you're awfully hostile that a free gift like the O seems to have decreased in its value to you or the other dive shops/dive boats. 



Anyway, I once had a pretty long conversation with Admiral Fetterman and since had one with former BOCC commissioner, Bill Dickson. Both of those gentlemen gave great credit to Turpin for the work he did with the Oriskany.



Is it your position that these two men, who by your own admission were very instrumental in acquiring the Oriskany, are liars?



Anyway, keep up the fight. We need more reefs for fishing, diving, swimming/snokeling. It's too bad we've got to hear these 6th grade girl bitchfights to get anything done, but it is what it is. 



Thanks for all of you guys who get this done and remember that eventually you'll win and we'll get all the reefs we want.


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## SolarFlare (Oct 3, 2007)

My final response to this subject because I can't imagine what I will need to add.....



*Cobe,* We previously did not have permits for putting reefs inside State waters. some will blame Turpin for that, but bottomline its done, why not spend our efforts now on filling them up!



*Rich #1 & #2-*

I know you are generally good guys and have been of great help pushing the county to address our needs, thanks for that!
<LI>We probably have a lot in common outside of the RT subject, we will obviously never agree on that subject</LI><LI>yesI come to RT's defense especially when someone makes a claim that is total BS,







like the following in *bold*........."The reefs for the little 3-Barges site were donated to the county at no cost. All the county has to do is sink them, *but Turpin continues to drag his feet and find excuses not to put them out*, but he magically finds time to have a Key Westtrip to talk about how great our reef program is. If they only knew."</LI><LI>Some inside info I have heard......Talking badabout Turpin and the mighty "O" will win you ZERO support anywhere in the State, he is revered for that deployment. When you bring that up to officials they think you've lost your mind andyou loseyour credibilty, whether you're right or not.</LI>

Let's stop arguing and start working together to fill up the sites rather than dissing them, *I have 2 more on the burner,*<UL><LI>waiting on the FWC for a grant for 5 cluster reefs, we will know in 10 days</LI><LI>I'm pushing to to deploy the Navarre Pier rubble in the near shore site</LI>[/list]



*What are you working on?*


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## cobe killer (Apr 13, 2008)

HEY JEFF, I'M NOT ARGUING W/ YA, I'M JUST MAKING STATEMENTS TO Q'S THAT WERE ASKED. BUT, IT IS A FACT THAT NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO ENHANCE THE STAE WATER FISHERYBY ROBERT*<U>..UNTIL.. THE CITIZENS GOT ANGRY AND STARTED PUT PRESSURE ON ROBERT,CLIFF PAYNE AND THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO GET SOMEHTING DONE. THEN AND ONLY THEN DID SOMETHING BEGIN TO GET DONE.</U>* THATS THE FACTS, AND IT SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY WHEN WE HAVE SUCH A VAST AREA TO WORK WITH AND THE KNOWLEDGE THAT IT WILL BRING TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF REVENUE TO THE COUNTY AND THE STATE. ISN'T THAT WHAT OUR COMMISSIONERS AND ROBERT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING FOR THIS COUNTY..MAKING IT PROSPER AND GROW. SO WHY DO THE PEOPLE HAVE TO GET MAD AND START A FIRE UNDER THEM FOR THEM TO DO WHAT WE PAY THEM FOR. JUST MY 2CENTS WORTH. HAVE A BLESSED DAY.


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## nextstep (Jun 27, 2008)

question: did rt hire a environmental company to finally fill out the app.s correctly?

question: is there anybody who would work for the same money and perks and be able to do a better job?

maybe it could become a job for a private company?


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## spearfisher (Oct 3, 2007)

> *nextstep (6/7/2009)*question: did rt hire a environmental company to finally fill out the app.s correctly?
> 
> question: is there anybody who would work for the same money and perks and be able to do a better job?
> 
> maybe it could become a job for a private company?


Yes, Robert routinely hires out and/or is advised on permit/grant writingby private companies. Wetland Sciences is a locally owned and operated business that has written/advised on several permits for the County's Marine Resources Division. From what I've seen they do an exceptional job at a reasonable price. When they write the permits they get approved fairly quickly (they wrote these permits for the inshore reefs.) I for one love the idea ofa private business writing our permits (so long as the proper bidding process is followed.) Private businesses such as Wetland Sciences bring the necessary knowledge and ability to get the job done right, andthey can be held accountable for their actions if they don't do the job right. It beggs the question, if an outside company has to write all of Robert's permits, what do we need him for?

FYI: Robert wrote the permit for the LAARS West expansion that encompassed live bottom, the shipping channel, a sand borrow site, and a pipeline. If we had hired this one out it might have had a chance as I doubt Wetland Sciences would have written a permit destined for failure. Makes you wonder why Robert wrote this one himself?


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Xanadu (6/6/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *FishinFool (6/4/2009)*....about the only thing he has successfully managed to sink is a county vehicle
> ...


It's also completely inaccurate, inflammatory and feeding the flames of bullshit that seem to spread so widely here.

FYI, there's a billion tons of concrete from Ivan destroyed bridges you guys seem to ignore and the fact that the O had to be placed where it is. The ACOE is the obstruction keeping us in a losing race with Alabama and while I appreciate everyone's motivation and dedication you might be surprised that I suggest you temper your tone or piss off the very people whose support you need the most.


Florabama, are you in the dive business? Is business bad right now since the O started to slide? I ask because you're awfully hostile that a free gift like the O seems to have decreased in its value to you or the other dive shops/dive boats. 

Anyway, I once had a pretty long conversation with Admiral Fetterman and since had one with former BOCC commissioner, Bill Dickson. Both of those gentlemen gave great credit to Turpin for the work he did with the Oriskany.

Is it your position that these two men, who by your own admission were very instrumental in acquiring the Oriskany, are liars?

Anyway, keep up the fight. We need more reefs for fishing, diving, swimming/snokeling. It's too bad we've got to hear these 6th grade girl bitchfights to get anything done, but it is what it is. 

Thanks for all of you guys who get this done and remember that eventually you'll win and we'll get all the reefs we want.[/quote]

Oriskany was put where she is because RT wanted it there to "protect" divers from getting into the gallery deck by ensuring the flight deck was at 130. It could have been placed closer and shallower. 

Flroabama's business hasn't been harmed one iota by the "decreased value" of the Oriskany. Oriskany is still bringing millions to the area, andthis comingOctober she'll bring a lot more. If we had even attempted to bring the Vandenberg here we could have more than doubled the tourism dollars. She was auctioned off to key west for 1.6 million, with several million in grants riding on the project. Could we have gotten her, probably not, but it would have been prudent to at least try.


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## Wharf Rat (Sep 27, 2007)

> *Evensplit (6/7/2009)*
> 
> Oriskany was put where she is because RT wanted it there to "protect" divers from getting into the gallery deck by ensuring the flight deck was at 130. It could have been placed closer and shallower.
> 
> ...




So the Oriskany is not as big a flop as Florabama makes it out to be? I'm confused. And I realize you all are in the dive business, but when did the success or failure of the Oriskany as a reef depend on the ability to dive it? It is still an artificial reef that attracts fish that otherwise wouldn't be there and it can still be fished with hook and line.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

Oriskany has done her part, and she's as big a draw as ever. The shortfall has been thather potential has not been realized because:

#1 - She was placed too deep and too far out - making the trip prohibitive for the majority of private boaters and the smaller charters, and creating a tremendous negative image among the dive community.

#2 - Her distance from shore has created a negative image as far as safety is concerned. Our own local press has helped perpetuate the negative image.

#3 - The county has not done a single thing to promote the Oriskany publicly, and has gone so far as to highlight the negative aspects of her settling to the very customers that dive shops and charters have spent tens of thoudsands of dollars to attract.

#4 - Nodedicated effort has been made to bring in additional sites to further draw the tourists and keep them here.

Ample opportunity has been presented to do all of the things listed, yet the county has failed to pursue a single one.


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

> *Evensplit (6/7/2009)*Oriskany has done her part, and she's as big a draw as ever. The shortfall has been thather potential has not been realized because:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You want the county to promote your private busines so you can sell more dive packages? Sounds like socialism.



As far as sinking her where she is, I understand that was as close as we could get her. If you've got some way of showing that's not true then you should do it. Hell, I'm pissed they sank her so close. Another 100' and we would have had a world class fishing reef, but as it stands we have nothing but a big ass dive hole and I - and 90% of the world couldn't care less about diving.



Had Oriskany been sank in 500' of water, we'd have a world class tuna fishery. It would look like the lump, but instead its too deep to dive and too shallow for fish. 



Compromise sucks.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Xanadu (6/7/2009)*
> 
> 
> > *Evensplit (6/7/2009)*Oriskany has done her part, and she's as big a draw as ever. The shortfall has been thather potential has not been realized because:
> ...


I don't need the county to promote my business. 

My business makes less off of the dive packages than the resturaunts, hotels, and charter boats do. But when I pay my county officials to help promote business that competes with me it pisses me off. If / When that happens at the expense of local reef projects, that REALLY pisses me off.

Oriskany was put where she is because Robert wanted her there. 

It'll take a lot more than an aircraft carrier in 500' of water to make Pensacola a world class tuna fishery. We've already got a world class Snapper fishery, and the county gov't and chamber of commerce can't even get behind that.


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## Xanadu (Oct 1, 2007)

Fine. If you have proof that Robert Turpin is the reason the Big O is where she is, then post it. If you're just belly aching because the powers that be suck, I'm with you, but I don't see how you're blaming Turpin.



Where did you want her? 150'? It was never going to happen. The time frame for changing existing laws vs the time we had to operate were incompatible. Now, maybe those laws suck. There are lots of laws that suck. Change them and lets get another one, but your personal bullshit crusade against Turpin is old as sour grapes.



If you've got proof that he's an obstruction to the betterment of the county, then you and your peeps should post it.



If you don't, then you ought to shut the hell up and get on with gettin' on.



Just sayin, but there are courts and lawyers and all manner of bureaucracy that is designed to deal with the accusations you're making. If there's truth to it, share the facts or shut up.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

I've given the infomany times,but I'll provide it again. 

There were many meetings at which Robert explained why the Oriskany was going where she was. My proofcame from Robert himself. He stated it again at the Reef meeting held at the civic center last year. He was using his "expertise"as a diver and former charter captainto make the determination that for safety theflight deckhad to be at or below the recreational limit at 130'.

At thetop of the tower,Oriskany is 146' feet tall. Add 50'. (the entire rest of the state uses 45') Even with no allowance for settlingor subsidence she could have been at least 16 feet shallower. I believe Robert used 151' as the height - not sure why - which still leaves 11'. 

After the heat he got following Gustav, Robert has saidthat he had to use Oriskany's extreme width, which was 157' as designed. That stillleaves6'. Oriskany's actual physical width was around 146'at the time of sinking. 

Is 6' that big a deal? It is when you consider that placing her past 20 miles from the pass means that inspected vessels have to have an offshore ticket, which brings on significantly higher expenses, making attracting business that much tougher.

So, why was it important that she be putat 212'?The Flight Deck is 82'above the Base Line(keel). When sunk, assuming no subsidence, the flight deck would be exactly at 130', which is where Robert stated that he wanted it. I'll point out that of all the formulas for determining Oriskany's minimum depth, this is the only one that works out - because that's where Robert wanted it.

For the sake of argument, let's forget everything else and assume that the LAARS paperwork did in fact require her to be placed where she is. As the biggest artificial reef project in the world, with the backing of the Navy and the federal government, at a cost of 24 million or so, don't you think we could have gotten a waiver to put her just about anywhere we wanted to?Robert didn't ask. He didn't need to. He had his212'. 

At the first MAC meeting after Gustav, Robert actually said, "I can't believe it sank". I don't know what he expected approx 34 thousand tons of steel sitting on sand to do in a hurricane.


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## Evensplit (Oct 2, 2007)

Looking forwardto seeing the deployment going on later this morning! Thanks for the updates Jeff !

What type of reefs are you looking at for the 5 "cluster reefs"?


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

*<U>First:</U>*I'm not against fishing, I love fishing _<U>*AND*</U>_diving and have no interests in pitting fishermen against divers. I do both, and theGulf is big enough for both to thrive without interfering with one another._<U>*In fact, that is exactly the point.*</U>_ If Turpin were doing his job, both fishermen and diverswould have ample fishing and diving spots that were easily accessible to all levels of fishermen and divers in state waters.We should be working as a community to develop both becauseboth fishing and diving tourism are the easiest ways to increase economic prosperity inEscambia and Santa Rosa Counties. I would ask those who feel I'm being too hard on Turpin to tell me if they reallybelieve Escambia County has done a good job in the last ten years, developing our marine resources FOR EVERYONE-- not just divers -- and not just for people with large boats. 

*<U>Second:</U>* It was citizen effortsthat got the tiny in-state reef areas. Not Robert Turpin. I am tired of having to fight with Robert Turpin to get him to do the job he is paid to do.Both Turpin and Cliff Payne ignored our pleas for in-state sites until we got prominent Pensacolians involved in the fight then bothswitched sides fearingpolitical blacklash.Both Turpin and Payne are philosophically against building reef areas that provide easy access for people. That is why in the 10 years of Turpin's tenure, we have only just now gotten 4 miles of in-state reef area. We should have 400 miles of in-state reef area. Other Florida counties do. Why can't we? Answer -- Robert Turpin is the problem. 

*<U>Third:</U>* Even now, Turpin has continued to drag his feet so that summer is now here and we still have no reefs in place.

*<U>Fourth:</U>*It was the RFRA that donated thereefs to the countyfor the in-shore sites we forcedTurpin to write permits for. These sites willprovide both fishing and diving for people who don't have access to large boatsor don't want to run 25 miles. The 3 Barges site is just a few miles from the pass. Anyone with a small boat will have access to it without endangering themselves by having to go offshore in a small boat. 

*<U>Fifth</U>*: People do nottravel from all corners of the world to fish the Oriskany. They did, at least at first, travelfrom all parts of the globe to dive her but that is not the case now. 

*<U>Sixth:</U>*If you don't understand why dive shops continue to say "everything's wonderful with the Oriskany," I'm not going to bother to explain it to you except to say this:If people were paying you to take them fishing, would you advertise that fishing sucks? 

*<U>Seventh:</U> *Pensacola had achance to be a world class dive destination. That chance may never come again and that is extremely sad. Pensacolablew it because of Robert Turpin -- period. By Turpin's own public statments, he put her in 212 feet to keep divers out of the hanger deck.I heard him say it. It is a matter of public record provided those public records don't disappear like other public records involving Turpin and George Tourart have disappeared in the past. In-spite of what Turpin now says, the Oriskany did nothave to be sunk with 70 feet over her. That's just typical Turpin C.Y.A.Turpin wanted to be the big cheese, but now acts like the little mouse.I personally don't respect anyone who is not honest. The Oriskany now has 80 feet over her highest point. The flight deck is at nearly 150 feet -- way beyond safe diving depths -- and we have not even had a hurricane come over her. We'll see what happens this summer.


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## angus_cow_doctor (Apr 13, 2009)

OK guys....

Sounds like the oriskany thing is highly opinionated as to whether or not it was handled right. Opinions are like anuses. Everyone has got one, and they think theirs does not stink.

I think we should all put that aside, and focus on what we can do now to get inshore reefs. I say we give RT a chance to get them put in ASAP. If not, then come election time it will be Buh-bye time:takephoto. Way I see it, it is a self limiting problem. Lets not get at each other's throat over stuff that can't be changed anyway. Lets move forward and address the problem.


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## ryanbr (Oct 10, 2007)

I hope to see a lot of this stuff go away somehow. There are many people working hard to do what is best for everyone. Those people have done and sacrificed a lot to get us where we are. It didn't happen by itself. Problem is everyone is at least partially right. On the one hand we have one of the best reef programs you can find. Until you compare to Alabama. You have to wonder why we have gotten so much done,when so many people also run up against the wall when approaching officials about projects not originating within the beauracracy. Why were these inshore projects held up so long in the permitting process? The people disscussed here are like dealing with a Jekyll and Hyde. Truely. There are too many personalities with those in key positions. And knowing Pensacola politics means you can trust very few of their motivations. There is generally a quid pro quo in Escambia County government. Like it or not. As for any other large ships,I wouldn't have put much into it either. I mightwould inquire,but I'd think that would be like me asking for a date with Cindy Crawford. With that being said I would like to know:

1. Why can't we repermit the areas where large reefs already exist?

2. Why can't we build more ultra-shallow reefs in the bay like the ones in Sarasota and parts of the East Coast?(Highlighted in the Florida Sportsman)And I'm not talking 40'.

3. Why were the nearshore permits held up so long?

4. Why was the West LAARS written the way it was by someone of that expertise?

5. Why does everything have to be handled on an individual basis? Why can't we set a policy about type and placement of materials, i.e. only stable materials away from shipping and natural bottom, and let everything else be open to deployment? Therefore not allowing an individual to make most all those decisions single handedly.

6.Why will no one listen to putting something like the Gulf Breeze Pier rubble where the old Pensacola Beach pier was?The road sectionscan be well stacked to mitigate their subsiding. And at far less cost than the Navarre Sanctuary.

I know we all have opinions but our officials have generally been those of problems and not solutions. They respond onlywhen you are someone who commandsand demands aresponse.And give a pittance to those regular Joe's who might dare ask to many questions.They think "no"should bea sufficient answer. Bottom line is there more the better. 

Chris


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## Capt CodeBobbie (Oct 30, 2008)

"Someone can always do it better..." I hate that attitude... The real fact of the matter is we have some great sites tofish and dive... Two of which are among the most popular fishing and diving destinations in the world... If you lumped all the bridgerumble together it would displace more water than the"O" making it the largestartificial reef in the world...Which can be almost completlyattributed to RT and his office... Ithink those two accomplishmentsalone make RTsresume look pretty outstanding...No wonder Monroe County wouldask forhis assistance...:usaflag But thehell with the rest of the state or country... I know him andhis staffeat, sleep and breath their jobs... They work diligently to maintain, study, and create new artificial reefs... If we paid a million dollars in the last ten years for him to do his job in Escambia county thenwe made that back ten fold in the first month the "O" was down... Hmmm, lets fire him...:banghead I guess everyone will be happy once we can turn the gulf into a junk yard and just chuck whatever we want, where ever we want, because everyone is a marine biologist... I'm a Marine, I don't pretend to be something i'm not and neither should anyone else...


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## Capt CodeBobbie (Oct 30, 2008)

O yeah and I safely dive the Oriskany every weekend weather permitting... My customers and Ihave a blast everytime we go... I would like to thank the Navy and Robert Turpin for making that possible... Perfect spot especially when the blue water comes in... We enjoyed taking pictures of the whale shark and manta ray last year... we hope it happens again this year, makes me kinda glad shipping lane requirements made her have to go down where she did... Thanks Again...


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## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

Who is the "contractor " ?


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## Florabama (Oct 19, 2007)

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-special-format: bullet"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Cobe,no disrespect, but I have to disagree with you. The bridge rubble was the result of a devastating hurricane-- not Robert Turpin. It was the universal conviction ofthe fishing and diving communities that the bridge rubblebe used as reefs to make something good from a destructive event.WhileTurpin probably couldhave stopped it if he really wanted to, to do so would have ended his career.He is a county employee who works in an office that takes its lead from the county commissioners who in turn take theirs from public opinion -if they want to stay in office (at least that's the way it's supposed to work). With universal public opinion behind the no-brainer decision to put thebridge rubble in the Gulf instead of a landfill,Turpin had no choice but to jump in front of the parade.<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-special-format: bullet"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I am not saying Turpin was against putting the bridge rubble in the Gulf. I can't read his mind so I don't judge his motives. What I am saying is that people who credit Turpin with the bridge rubble, don't know what they're talking about.Turpin had no influence on creating or securing the bridge rubble- that distinction goes to Hurricane Ivan -- andhe had little input into whether or not it would be reefs. Those decisions were made by the county commissioners.Manyprivate citizens, including myself,petitioned the county to put the bridge rubble in the Gulf as reefs when the decision still had not been made. Turpin had nothing to do with that decision except in an advisory role. How he advised the commissioners, I don't know. I expect he was positive and for that I am grateful, but Turpin's only autonomous decisionwas where the rubblewent.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Think about it. They had to do something with it and it was either dump it in the Gulf or dump it in a land fill. It was only marginally more expensive to dump it in the Gulf where it wouldprovide an economic return -- especially for commercial fishermen. I am glad we got the bridge rubble out in federal waters, but have you ever asked yourself why couldn't at least a fewof those thousands of tons of concrete be putin state waters?<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I've discussed the Oriskany ad nausem, so I won't bother to rehash that except to say that yes, the Oriskany is stilldrawing regional tourists and it's great we have her -- even if 90 percent of the ship is beyond recreational dive depths.We got a glimpse at what the Oriskanycould have been when tourists from all over Europe and South America were booking dives on her. That isn't happening anymore unless they happen to be in town for something else already.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">The bottom line is that when these reefs go downaround the 3-Barges, those will be the first reefs to be put in state waters in the ten years of Turpin's tenure, and as far as I know, there are no plans on the drawing board foranything else. Add to that the fact that we have had a net loss of LAARS in the last ten years, and personally, I don't count that as progress especiallywhen I look around and see what others are doing.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Alabama's small coastal area is getting reefsat a rate of 1000 to 1 compared toEscambia County. <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">The Vanderberg is just the latest in a long line of ships sunk in theKeys and will be one more tourist attraction which includesChrist of the Abyss, the Duane, the Bibb, the Speigel Grove-- just to name a few.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">And take a look at what Key Biscayne is doing. <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">http://www.nmreef.com/<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">When I look around, I don't think we measure up to what our potential could be if there was some creativity and leadership fromTurpin's office.<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 3.12pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.38in; WORD-BREAK: normal; DIRECTION: ltr; TEXT-INDENT: -0.38in; unicode-bidi: embed; TEXT-ALIGN: left; language: en-US; mso-line-break-override: none; punctuation-wrap: hanging" align=left>


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