# Capaciter



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

I just took some amp reading with a Fluke clamp-on and wanted to pass my results along to anyone that may be interested.

I have the hps lights from econo-light

Model Number E-HC1H1517/120vac 60 hz 3.2a

My capaciter is made by GE

Model Number 27F6808 / .5uf 480vac 69932-23r +/- 10% 

Before Capactier

5.4a when first plugged in < 1 second

3.9a for 2 minutes

3.4a for 1 minute

2.9a for the next 20 minutes

With Capaciter



1.9a when first plugged in < 1 second

4.0a for 2 minutes

3.4a for 1 minute

3.2afor the next 20 minutes

What do you think about that? 

I'm not so sure that I will use them, the only real drop in ampsis for less than a second. With the capaciters that I have my continuous amp draw has went from 17.4a to 19.2a for all 6 hps lights.


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

Your capacitor is not big enough. You need a 55 mfd (microfarad) 370 volt capacitor. That capacitor that you tried will not do much for you. Mine will be here tomorrow and I will post the amp readings before and after installation.


----------



## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

From what I have gathered some of you guys are having problems with the hps pulling to much amperage at startup. Not that it makes any difference now but I ordered mid size wide floods made by Howard Industries, 150's of course and I have had no problems. I have 4 of them and I also run them off of a 2000 watt Honda. I have 2 lights on each switch and can throw both switches at the same time and the genny never leaves idle speed. All I did was use 4 feet of 12/3 wire for the cords and and standard outdoor junction boxes to seal everything up. All connections were soldered together. Here are some pics of the lights.










complete setup


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

We are trying to run 6-150 watt HPS lights with the EU2000 generator. BBB could get 4 of his to run and the generator tripped when he plugged the fifth one in. I am guessing that you are pulling around 11-12 amps with the 4 lights that you have unless they have a capacitor inside already (some of the more expensive ones do). The lights that we have do not have the capacitor in them, so we are installing them externally to cut down on the amp draw. Do you have any way to measure the amp draw from one of your lights (or all 4)? I would be interested to know if your lights pull 3.4 amps like ours do? If so, you would have the generator almost maxed out (13.3 amps). I would think that yours probably has the capacitor installed and pulls about 1.4-1.7 amps. Some more info on your lights would be appreciated......


----------



## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

I don't have anything to measure the amp draw myself, but I have friend that can probably get me the tool to do it with. You are right about them already having the caps installed. This was one of the first questions I asked before I ordered. I had already done some research and seen the problems others were having so I decided I was gonna do it right the first time!!! They were a little more expensive, about 90$ a piece give or take shipping and all. All total with the boxes, wire,nuts,bolts, knobs and other junk I have about 130$a piece in them, but they work, knock on wood, and I love them. They also have a 3 year warranty on the housing,2 year on the components, and 1 year on the bulb, no questions asked. I thought it was a pretty good deal considering what they offered. This year is the first year I have used and have put them through nothing short of pure hell and they haven't so much as flickered. I would recommend them to anybody. No more than what they seem like they pull I see no problem in running 2 or maybe 3 more off of the same genny. If I missed any thing just let me know, I'll try to help out anyway I can. I know firsthand how frustrating:banghead it can be trying to rig up a new system.


----------



## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

> I have 2 lights on each switch and can throw both switches at the same time and the genny never leaves idle speed.




That's pretty dang impressive if it stays in the idle mode? I take it you have the switch on the Genny set to economy?



I just got my E-Cono 150's this evening. I tore one apart to see if there was room for the Cap. [I don't have them yet.]



It will be a while before I get to putting them on the boat and playing with them as I have a boat here that needs a little attention in the wiring department.


----------



## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

> *X-Shark (7/28/2008)*
> 
> 
> > I have 2 lights on each switch and can throw both switches at the same time and the genny never leaves idle speed.
> ...


Thats right I always leave the econo switch on. I have an hour meter/rpm gage next time I hook them up I will check to see if there is an increase in rpm. There is really no audible increase so if there is any change it can't be more than 10-15 rpm. Just out of curiosity how much do the caps cost bought separatley.


----------



## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

They are $10.68ea.



I bought 4 with shipping it came to $54.09



http://hidquickfix.com/cafor250wa.html



Don't worry that it says it's for a 250watt unit. The main thing you want here is the 55uf Cap.


----------



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

The caps I used, I got here at work to try before I bought some. My generator (Coleman Powermate 2250/1850)will run all 6 lights and I can start 5 of the 6 it just takes longer. It will start 4 at once with no problems. Theplug on the generator is a 15 amp and it's just a matter of time before it causes me a problem. Other than starting the sixth light it works fine, its never triped the breaker or bogged down. I think the problem starting my sixth light is going to be caused by a voltage loss not a amperage overload since the breaker does not trip. I can make it trip if I plug a power tool into it.


----------



## mekell (Sep 27, 2007)

How many of you use GFIs. Seems with above water lights you could do without them. My lights are underwater 500 watts wired through a GFI.


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

GNWDAD, voltage loss will increase your amperage. I bought my caps off ebay and they were $6.50 each. All 6 with shipping was $48. I thought your lights must have the caps in them already because BBB could not get his fifth one to start without tripping the breaker. Yours also have HPF (high power factor) ballast which are WAY more efficient than what is in ours (NPF-normal power factor). The HPF ballast have 90%+ efficiency where the NPF only have 40-60%. My caps are in town and when they are delivered today I am going to run out and get them and install them in my remote box, so I will have some amp numbers today. I can't wait to get mine installed!!!!


----------



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

> *wareagle22 (7/29/2008)*GNWDAD, voltage loss will increase your amperage. I bought my caps off ebay and they were $6.50 each. All 6 with shipping was $48. I thought your lights must have the caps in them already because BBB could not get his fifth one to start without tripping the breaker. Yours also have HPF (high power factor) ballast which are WAY more efficient than what is in ours (NPF-normal power factor). The HPF ballast have 90%+ efficiency where the NPF only have 40-60%. My caps are in town and when they are delivered today I am going to run out and get them and install them in my remote box, so I will have some amp numbers today. I can't wait to get mine installed!!!!


I thought we were comparing apples to apples with the lights, I did not know mine had the better ballast. they may have the caps in them i will check to see.


----------



## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

My Caps came today. 



The site http://www.hidquickfix.com/cafor250wa.html has some incorrect info on it.



I was just reading the "Product Description" when I ordered these.



They are NOT 55uf. They are 35uf. So I got on the phone with Brian the owner/operator of Capacitor King.com and we discussed it in depth.



Brian said he is not exactly sure how these guys are getting away with using the 55uf Caps, but can only chalk it up to using a remote box with the guts far away from the fixture.



He suggested that I try the 35uf and did say he was not trying to get out of anything. I believe him. He also said that if I was not happy he would gladly exchange them.



The 55uf Caps are not on his site right now. He has taken them down, due to not having any and awaiting them to come in. That will be in another 2 weeks.



This is due to ALL the Bowfisherman buying them up. HeHe



We talked for a good 30min on the phone.



I have run a test fit of these Cap's. They will fit inside the E-Cono 150watt fixture.



Here is a breakdown of what's all there.

























Note the position of the igniter. [Little White box @ Lower left]














Now note that I turned it 90deg. There are holes to mount it like this.














Cap fits.


----------



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

> *mekell (7/29/2008)*How many of you use GFIs. Seems with above water lights you could do without them. My lights are underwater 500 watts wired through a GFI.


I do!


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

My caps just came in and I ran a little test. With one light ONLY, the amp draw was 3.4 amps without the capacitor and went down to around 2.8 after about 5 minutes. With the capacitor installed, it drew 2.0 amps and went down to 1.2 amps after 5 minutes. This will put all 6 of my lights around 12 amps starting then down to around 7.2 amps after 5 minutes or so. This is a little over 50% load on the generator which should last for 4.5-6 hours on a gallon of gas!!! I plan on having my whole set-up complete tomorrow night and should have pictures on Thursday.



GNWDAD, does your lights have multi-tap ballast? This means it could be wired for 120,240,277,480 volts. If it does, it should have the HPF ballast. Either way, if you can run 6 on your Honda, you have some good lights.


----------



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

> *wareagle22 (7/29/2008)*My caps just came in and I ran a little test. With one light ONLY, the amp draw was 3.4 amps without the capacitor and went down to around 2.8 after about 5 minutes. With the capacitor installed, it drew 2.0 amps and went down to 1.2 amps after 5 minutes. This will put all 6 of my lights around 12 amps starting then down to around 7.2 amps after 5 minutes or so. This is a little over 50% load on the generator which should last for 4.5-6 hours on a gallon of gas!!! I plan on having my whole set-up complete tomorrow night and should have pictures on Thursday.
> 
> GNWDAD, does your lights have multi-tap ballast? This means it could be wired for 120,240,277,480 volts. If it does, it should have the HPF ballast. Either way, if you can run 6 on your Honda, you have some good lights.


No they are not the multi tap ballast, which caps did you buy? I like your numbers and this would give me room to add more lights on the pontoon!


----------



## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

I threw one of the Caps in one of my units and went and tested with my amprobe.



The unit without the cap went like this.



Startup was 4.18amps.

Ended @ 2.79amps.

I didn't time that one.



With the Cap:



Startup was 2.69amps

4min latter it was @ 1.74amps

5min after start was 1.70amps



Imediant restart:

1.55amps with no light

1min latter it was 2.35amps and it lite.

Ended @ 1.74amps several min latter.



This was with a standard 25ft ext. cord. [14ga]


----------



## Five Prongs Of Fury (Apr 15, 2008)

Sounds like you guys are finally getting down in the short rows. Hope to see some pics of the final setup when you get them done.


----------



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

> *X-Shark (7/29/2008)*I threw one of the Caps in one of my units and went and tested with my amprobe.
> 
> The unit without the cap went like this.
> 
> ...


So are you going to keep those or swap them out?


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

GNWDAD, this is the cap that I bought:










I actually bought them off ebay, http://search.stores.ebay.com/HVAC-Appliance-Parts-Supplies_55-uf-capacitor_W0QQfciZ6QQfclZ4QQfsnZHVACQ20ApplianceQ20PartsQ20SuppliesQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ69913052QQsofpZ0

He had to order them so it took about 7-10 days with shipping but I got what I ordered. 

I don't know why you need anymore lights on that pontoon boat, we passed you in Perdido Bay about a month ago and I was afraid a plane was gonna land on it........


----------



## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm going to use them for now.



I will use HD Velcro to attach them inside the housing.


----------



## bbb (Jun 18, 2008)

> *X-Shark (7/30/2008)*I'm going to use them for now.
> 
> I will use HD Velcro to attach them inside the housing.


May be a good thing you got the 35's and not the 55's. The 55's wouldn't fit in the housing.

I'm not exactly sure how many amps mine is pulling but almost all the numbers I see with the 150hps lightsand 55uf caps are about the same.


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

The 55's are way taller than I had anticipated so I had to lay mine down to get them in my remote box. But it is built now and will be in the boat this evening. Since removing the ballast and ignitor from the light, it sure makes mounting them a lot easier!!! I also enjoy the lights coming back on almost immediately (< 1 minute) after being shut off. With my metal halides, it took almost 10 minutes before they were on and back to full power.


----------



## Gnwdad (Oct 14, 2007)

> *wareagle22 (7/30/2008)*GNWDAD, this is the cap that I bought:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Was that you headed south towards Herion Bayou? How did it look as you approached it?


----------



## wareagle22 (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, that was us. You said you had just missed a good one when we passed. The water is usually pretty clear around there. It was NOT very clear where we had been and we were just heading back to the truck to call it a night. I still had the metal halide lights then.


----------

