# Casting Clinic 3/17 9am



## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

The Fly Fishers of Northwest Florida (the local fly club) is hosting a clinic every month (third Saturday every month). The club members get together and cast etc. Miraflores Park PENSACOLA. 

I am responsible for the casting activities, and I plan a more structured approach to the clinics. Saturday 3/17 is our second clinic and now we will do triangle excecise that is helpful to start learning the double haul. This Clinic is open and the club welcomes all comers. 

See you Saturday - maybe you can learn something - better still, maybe you can teach us something.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

One question if I may. When teaching fly rod students do you employ the term 'cast or casting extensively? I know it would seem an odd question and thus feel no obligation to answer if you choose.


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## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

Yes I think I do. But English is my third language so, I might use it in a slightly different manner than “natives” do. After having memorized the irregular verbs ( if that’s the correct phrase ) in English I have never casted anything yet and never will. My language professor tells me I that my Euro English is passable. 

Your q interests me so, pray explain please. And come and cast with us.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

jonasmagn said:


> Yes I think I do. But English is my third language so, I might use it in a slightly different manner than “natives” do. After having memorized the irregular verbs ( if that’s the correct phrase ) in English I have never casted anything yet and never will. My language professor tells me I that my Euro English is passable.
> 
> Your q interests me so, pray explain please. And come and cast with us.


 Its as simple as casting a spinning rod and as complex as the human mind. If I ask you to 'cast' a spinning and you know how to cast a spinning rod, then you know what the word 'cast' means to you. So when an instructor tells you to cast a fly rod and you want to assume the instructor knows what they are asking of you. You try and cast as you understand the term, as if you are holding a spinning rod. It does not work well with a fly rod. A cast with a spinning rod is a single hard forward thrusting motion to a sudden stop. A presentation with a fly rod, is a considered draw to the formation of the loop thus projecting the line in the direction height and speed of your choice. Remember, You will perform to your own exception. If you look down you will throw down, if you look forward you will throw forward. If your told to cast your likely to cast as you understand the term. If you understood the term as your instructor understands it, you'd be the instructor instead of the student.


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## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

Absolutely correct. I point this out at the outset of all my lessons. 
I am currently in Iceland teaching a fly casting course for doctors. The same problem crops up there as the verb “Kasta” has the same implications. I would love to discuss this but I am pressed for time and returning Friday. Can I continue this important conversation when I’m am back Statesside?


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

jonasmagn said:


> Absolutely correct. I point this out at the outset of all my lessons.
> I am currently in Iceland teaching a fly casting course for doctors. The same problem crops up there as the verb “Kasta” has the same implications. I would love to discuss this but I am pressed for time and returning Friday. Can I continue this important conversation when I’m am back Statesside?


Be glad to work with you. Just drop me a message when your ready.


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## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

Hi shadowwalker.
Back at the oar. As we use use the term "to cast" students naturally think about balls and other projectiles, that are launched with a follow through motion i.e. we extend the arm pointing it straight to desired path. This is not the way to treat the rod. It only opens up the loop on the forward stroke leading to a ineffective forward delivery. I start teaching beginners that we need to move the rod tip yes - but as important is the stop - sending the line over the tiptop. I might remind them of what happens when the brakes on a car are slammed and the body is caught by the seatbelt (Newtons first). In my experience the all important stop is the hard part. Just about every beginner stops the rod too late on the forward motion. However, that can be overcome quickly. We are used to moving the arm forward in our daily lives but we do not flick things behind us much. Thus the stop on the backward motion is weak to nonexistent in beginners. I cannot stress enough the importance of the stop - no stop - no cast. I have started talking about fly swatters - something from daily live. 
I am curious which words do you use? My command of english is ok but not perfect when it comes to coin phrases. I agree 100% that the verb "to cast" is not optimal and can be a hindrance in teaching.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

Tried to respond to you but the web site gave a token expired and all my work proofed and it was gone, If I ever get an answer to what happened I may try again. Paul


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

First, the stop is only important to you as an instructor, the need to understand is what is important to the student . try this exercise with just yourself. Find and old fly line . String it up and head to the nearest paved parking lot or road you can just drag a line across. Now without lifting the line off the ground and the tip as close to the surface as you can be comfortable with and draw the line as if a student were swinging it back and forth and talk yourself about containing your movements while projecting the line to a length common to a starting student. As you work thru this think or repeat to yourself draw and form the loop. Don't even think the word casting , start out just as you've seen students swing a rod and line and let it sink in to be the student and slowly allow yourself to relive conversations you might have had with students were they standing and you quietly advising them to draw the line and form the loop. Draw the line and form the loop not lifting the line off the ground for a while.


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## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

Yes - this is useful. I just returned from indoor casting course where my students did this exercise. It is very useful. I find it advantageous to have them do lot of horizontal drills - if they can see the line clearly and how the loop forms it helps a lot. Vertical exercise often are ineffective as they do not see the line.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

jonasmagn said:


> Yes - this is useful. I just returned from indoor casting course where my students did this exercise. It is very useful. I find it advantageous to have them do lot of horizontal drills - if they can see the line clearly and how the loop forms it helps a lot. Vertical exercise often are ineffective as they do not see the line.


 That's good to know, and the moves are important, but the language you employ is even more important.


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## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

That is correct and I am asking which words do you use?


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

I don't use the word casting when I work with students. For a student to understand, the words I choose need to be understood in just the way I wish them to be understood in the circumstances of the situation. When you read what I wrote, you read it as a casting instructor, not as a student. Students know instinctively they will have to stop the rod, what they want to understand is, how should I get there. Thus " draw the line and form the loop and I repeat it over and and over as many times as it takes, till they own it. In minutes they can draw a line an form the loop and the confidence builds. Other terms to consider, aim, project, send, present. I tell students right up front, I don't teach casting. I teach how to understand to control, manipulate, consider, judge and practice applied judgement. I firmly believe that student bring most of what they need to know to succeed with a fly rod with them right from the start. I just help them begin to sort it out.


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## jonasmagn (Mar 3, 2009)

Very interesting I will ruminate on this and try out. Thx for sharing. You mentioned that you published on this. Where can I access that?


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## kanaka (Oct 3, 2007)

Jonas, google "paul darby flyfishing" and check results.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

Go to, Fly anglers on line bulletin board click on, Fly fishing Basics, click on "Control casting" It starts on the second article. It reads sort of like a roller coaster. What I over looked, not being a writer, was to explain in simple terms, it was about using alternate language to 'casting'. And having a bit of fun.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

kanaka said:


> Jonas, google "paul darby flyfishing" and check results.


 Should I be concerned about people doing that, oh well its all out there now.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

This is officially the strangest thread ever on the PFF thanks to shadowwalker. That’s a big feat considering Steve For Brain is a member here too.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

Truth is my students taught me the quickest way to their understanding. They knew more about how they learn than I knew about how to teach. Once they showed me the key, I never went back to the other way.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2010)

I have found that teaching without using the word casting, students understand instinctively. Words mean things. So rather that fight their interpretation, I learned to teach with out the confusion of inaccurate to the immediate purpose terminology. There that should clear things up.


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