# Private wrecks?



## Reel Wins

are there any laws against sinking private wrecks offshore would i need a permit? just curious i saw how effective private numbers are the other day 

Thanks


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## lobsterman

Yes you have to get a permit for a private wreck.


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## Fishermon

since the subject is up...what happens if I find a private spot....how do I know, if some one comes around and tells me they own it, its private etc...do they have to have proof in hand, a art.reef/permit piece of paper with such numbers or something?...


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## lobsterman

No you do not have to have proof of purchase so to speak. Just a permit to dump said reef.


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## lingfisher1

Fishermon said:


> since the subject is up...what happens if I find a private spot....how do I know, if some one comes around and tells me they own it, its private etc...do they have to have proof in hand, a art.reef/permit piece of paper with such numbers or something?...


If you are asking what I think you are asking the only thing "private" on a reef you get permited and deployed is the numbers. If someone happens to find your "private" reef then that is just a chance you take. You can't tell the person that found it to leave cause it is yours, can't put up a no trespassing sign and so forth. Even though you paid to build it or purcahse it and have it permitted and deployed once it hits the Gluf floor it is technically fair game.


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## JoeZ

Private is the wrong term, more like unpublished reefs.

Like Ryan said, once it's down, it's anybody's to find -- and fish. And that's a good reason for a strong bottom machine and to always be watching the screen. You'd be amazed at how many spots you've passed up because you didn't know they were there.


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## Clay-Doh

What Ryan said. No such thing as a private reef. Just a reef you paid for or made and dropped, with unpublished numbers. Fair game. Don' let anyone ever bully you of a spot you find because it's "theres"


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## Fishermon

good to know guys, yeah...bottom machine is paying off finally....thanks. Clay I think i found one of your spots btw. :whistling:


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## local_hooker

Fishermon said:


> good to know guys, yeah...bottom machine is paying off finally....thanks. Clay I think i found one of your spots btw. :whistling:



Good now give them to all of us so we can carpet bomb the spot and take all the fish :thumbup: j/k


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## jack2

Fishermon said:


> good to know guys, yeah...bottom machine is paying off finally....thanks. Clay I think i found one of your spots btw. :whistling:


hell, man, if you found one of clay's spots, it's prolly got fish all around it.
i know he ain't catching 'em.:thumbup:

jack


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## Reel Wins

how would you obtain a permit for dropping an unpublished reef?


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## Clay-Doh

Man you guys are a ruff crowd!!!

I don't leave any survivors on my spots! Haa haa


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## DreamWeaver21

Reel Wins said:


> how would you obtain a permit for dropping an unpublished reef?


There is paperwork to fill out and requirements that have to be met. Basically the structure has to be made of steel, aluminum, or concrete. If it is metal the wall thickness needs to be 1/8 inch or greater. The unit needs to weigh 150lbs or more and be determined to be stable on the sea floor. There are permitted areas that allowed for reefs. They represent a couple of hundred square miles of sea floor. One zone to the east of the pass and one to the west. They start about 15 miles out of the pass SE or SW.

You contact escambia county and they send a guy out to take measurements and pics of your reef(s). This costs $25 for as many as you can handle in one load. Once you pay the money, there is a 5 day wait while the county send the packet to the army core of engineers to see if they want to bitch about your design. If you don't hear back from them then you get 30 days to go deploy the reef and you have to provide the army core of engineers the numbers through escambia county. They are not published.

I have gone through the process 4 times now and have deployed 18 units. Some have fish on them and some don't. Read though this section of the forum, it was discussed earlier and I think there is a link to the paperwork.


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## swhiting

DreamWeaver21 hit the nail on the head, except for one important point.

The numbers are required to be provided (I know, I can't stand it, It's bull), but in order to safeguard the numbers and assure they aren't publicized, send the numbers to me in a PM. I'll coordinate with the county and Corp.

Sincerely,

swhiting
Dept of Safe Numbers


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## Kenton

swhiting said:


> dreamweaver21 hit the nail on the head, except for one important point.
> 
> The numbers are required to be provided (i know, i can't stand it, it's bull), but in order to safeguard the numbers and assure they aren't publicized, send the numbers to me in a pm. I'll coordinate with the county and corp.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> swhiting
> dept of safe numbers


 
lol


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## Kenton

While you guys are on the topic of reefs and fish finders. Whats the best all around fishfinder/chart plottter that you have run accross. Getting a boat soon and i want my bottom machine to be incredible. Dont mind dropping a grand or two on one.


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## Stressless

Here's the link to Escambia County marine resources "How To" deploy a reef legally. 

http://www.co.escambia.fl.us/Bureau...nts/LAARSPolicyandProcedures3July2007_000.pdf

:blink:
Stressless


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## ryanbr

Yea. One good rule to follow if you're thinking about putting your own stuff down is to treat the "private" stuff you find like it's yours. Don't fish it everytime you go. Let it "rest". Second. If you build your own instead of buying, know that it takes more than you think to produce a good spot. And density can be key. Get with someone who's consistantly built good stuff. You won't build a 150lb "hollow" rebar reef and get much out of it. Look at a chicken coup sometime. They work well but you won't put one out on a 21' center console.


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## BIGBADWOLF

*and to think i had to bait claydoes hook for him, give him money for his scuba crap etc......havent got a single piece of fish or a spot to fish back from the claydoe!*


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## jack2

but he sure can catch a shark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
way to go clayton.:thumbsup:
jack


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## thecalmbeforethestorm

Clay-Doh said:


> Man you guys are a ruff crowd!!!
> 
> I don't leave any survivors on my spots! Haa haa


mad props to CHUNKY LOVE for his awesome dive videos:thumbup::thumbup:


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## capt mike

*Private reefs*

You guys really have no respect for the hard working people that purchase,permit and deploy the private reefs that have brought our reef fish populations back from the future of more shortened seasons and lower bag limits. Instead of running your mouth about raping someone's investment why don't you consider that if you find it take a few fish and go on. Better than that why don't you help by getting off your pocket book and deploy some yourself so that you can at least know that you are contributing to the fishery. The way you are doing it you are what we in the reef building community call the scourges of our industry. Be part of the solution not adding to the tearing down of our fisheries!!:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## Clay-Doh

capt mike said:


> You guys really have no respect for the hard working people that purchase,permit and deploy the private reefs that have brought our reef fish populations back from the future of more shortened seasons and lower bag limits. Instead of running your mouth about raping someone's investment why don't you consider that if you find it take a few fish and go on. Better than that why don't you help by getting off your pocket book and deploy some yourself so that you can at least know that you are contributing to the fishery. The way you are doing it you are what we in the reef building community call the scourges of our industry. Be part of the solution not adding to the tearing down of our fisheries!!:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:



Capt. Mike, not trying to start an argument with you, but I re-looked at all the post. Who was advocating raping a spot and cleaning it out on here, other than the comments made towards me that they found my spots and were going to carpet bomb them? Those guys were just joking. Unless I missed something else.


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## bigrick

I say if your lucky enough to find a good spot that someone else might have bought or dropped than catch the shit out of them. I can understand from the person that dropped the spots point of view that they would be pissed but when you drop a reef it's a risk you take.


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## guam_bomb80

I believe that if u find a good spot, mark it, fish it a few times and leave it alone till next year... odds are that you and the "owner" of the reef aren't the only two who know of it. If u "catch the shit out of them" u are depleting the reef of large fish and it will take much longer for the remaining resident fish to be large enough to keep. Catch a few, then move on. There are plenty of wrecks, just slow down and watch your bottom machine! Just my opinion...


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## capt mike

*Reply of a user!!*

Bigrick you are the epitome of what's wrong with with our sport. You sit back and watch everyone enhance our fisheries and then you get out there in your boat (I can only imagine what it is) and ride around like a true bandit to plunder what you can find. 15 years ago you would be labeled as a thief- that was when the people that fished out there had honor and respect for other fishermen and women. 
What we all need to realize is that when idiots like bigrick become more prevalent than those of us that care for our sport and the fisheries and are willing to actually pay to be involved the resource is doomed. The fishing pressures will eradicate our resources. As for bigrick get off your pocket book and be part of what we have created not part of what will inevitably destroy it!!


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## markw4321

capt mike said:


> Bigrick you are the epitome of what's wrong with with our sport. You sit back and watch everyone enhance our fisheries and then you get out there in your boat (I can only imagine what it is) and ride around like a true bandit to plunder what you can find. 15 years ago you would be labeled as a thief- that was when the people that fished out there had honor and respect for other fishermen and women.


30 years ago charter boats out of orange beach would run you off with a shotgun if you got to close to them while they were fishing a "privately" built spot.

Back then if a boat was heading south and running a course that would take them within a 1/2 mile of a boat fishing a "privately" built spot, common courtesy was to deviate from your course so as to give the boat fishing at minimum a 1/2 mile clearance so as not to interefere with the fishing going on. 

I sorta of miss those days.

mark


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## swander

Wow!! Bout half derailed here!! The guy simply asked how!! Or did I miss something? I have only been in the area for a couple of years. I have fished and dove quite a few "public" spots. There a litteraly tons of them. It would be impossible to fish them all. So I have pulled up to an anchored up up boat and asked hows it going only to get cussed out or worse yet they say nothing at all and just stare you down!! Excuse me! just trying to be friendly! If you are going to get that uptight and worried about someone gettin on yur spot! Why dont you sell your boat and get some friggin golf clubs!! :thumbdown:

Later


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## ryanbr

Man perspective gets lost quickly. First to the last post. If it's public(payed for by tax dollars or well published nat. bottom) then it's open to anyone at any time. Just use common boating courtesy. With today's technology anyone regularly bottom fishing should input the published public spots into the unit they're using and give room to anyone fishing a spot they don't have. As for those who would "run" on or "pick" off someone with their radar(which some charter boats took to), that's akin to showing up to a random BBQ, grabbing a beer, and asking when your burger will be done!!!


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## thecalmbeforethestorm

i understand what markw is saying here haha my buddy has shot at quite a few boats that came too close to our spots i thought he was insane but the guys on the other boat were being complete idiots on the radio and pissed off quite a few captains that day. captain mike stand up for what is rightfully yours i respect that alot as a fellow fisherman i dont go offshore alot but i know how it is when someone raids your honey holes


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## baymotorsports

thecalmbeforethestorm said:


> i understand what markw is saying here haha my buddy has shot at quite a few boats that came too close to our spots i thought he was insane but the guys on the other boat were being complete idiots on the radio and pissed off quite a few captains that day. captain mike stand up for what is rightfully yours i respect that alot as a fellow fisherman i dont go offshore alot but i know how it is when someone raids your honey holes


are you fukin joking? your buddy needs to have his head examined, and is going to end up in jail if he thinks he can shoot a weapon at another boat,

i would have the fwc and coast guard up your ass before you knew what was happening


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## thecalmbeforethestorm

yeah it blew my mind too but people do crazy shit out there thats why i no longer associate myslef with him. he's bad news lol dont shoot the messenger man lol what happened happened its over sorry for posting ignorant stuff like that.


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## capt mike

*Lack of respect follows how the USA is going down the drain!*

I contribute at least 12-30 spots to the Gulf Fishery every year (for the past 16 years) which means that I care what can happen to our reef fishery in a short time if fishermen and women decide like many have to plunder what they can TAKE! Its just like stealing your neighbors things he may have left out in the back yard when he goes in the house in the evening. I can't fish all my stuff I have put out over the years but I experience great satisfaction when I pull up on coops and other things I have deployed after 12-18 months and see the bottom machine light up and people start "bowing" up on the rail! I agree that our fishery is in the best shape as far as snapper that I have ever seen and I have been fishing the Gulf for 38 years. We have seen feast and famine as far as reef species go. When I started deploying reefs in numbers for myself in 1994 reef species were being kept up by the charter boat captains for the most part. As fuel prices, shortened seasons and lower bag limits took their toll the charter industry stopped deploying for the most part. What is being deployed today is in my estimation 95% recreational and 5% charter and commercial off the coasts of Alabama and northwest Florida.
We should as recreational people be proud that some have "stepped up" and more than done their part.I sell reefs so I must throw this in- save up and help us so you can say that you are part of the solution and not the problem!:yes::yes::yes::yes:


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## bigrick

capt mike said:


> Bigrick you are the epitome of what's wrong with with our sport. You sit back and watch everyone enhance our fisheries and then you get out there in your boat (I can only imagine what it is) and ride around like a true bandit to plunder what you can find. 15 years ago you would be labeled as a thief- that was when the people that fished out there had honor and respect for other fishermen and women.
> What we all need to realize is that when idiots like bigrick become more prevalent than those of us that care for our sport and the fisheries and are willing to actually pay to be involved the resource is doomed. The fishing pressures will eradicate our resources. As for bigrick get off your pocket book and be part of what we have created not part of what will inevitably destroy it!!


 
Don't get your diaper in a bunch old man. Sorry your bitter about spending thousand of dollars on something that doesn't belong to you. 
Yet, I'm an idiot and whats wrong with this sport for stating that if I find something on my bottom machine I would fish it? Or am I an idiot because I fish in the gulf but don't spend the money to drop my own reefs? 
I don't follow boats around with a radar gun but if I find a good spot regardless of who dropped it I'm gonna fish it.
For someone to think they have control over a reef is rediculous. I have a huge book of numbers of places I've found and I'm sure plenty are spots that someone paid to have dropped.
To say that people are shooting at eachother over where they are fishing is rediculous.....
I think that YOU are what's wrong with fishing today, I go out to have a good time with friends and catch fish . Not to harrass people and shoot at them for fishing in a spot. 
Sorry if I ruin anyones day for fishing on their spot, but I sure as hell won't let them ruin mine.
I guess the confusion was over the statement, "catch the shit out of them" I don't mean catch all the fish on the reef leaving nothing, I just mean fish on the reef. I think regulations would limit me from depleting a reef completely. I've seen reefs that one day don't have hardly anything on them be stacked with fish a few weeks later. Fish don't just stay on the same reef their entire lifes. It's not like you raising specific fish to be taken. If you want to have YOUR FISH , start a fish farm .


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## prgault

Couple of points/questions. The analogy of stealing from someone's back yard doesn't hold up, the GOM is no ones/everyones "backyard". I don't see how you can claim a piece of it as your own. I remember always dropping christmas trees in the county and state lakes we fished, and no one ever claimed dominion over them or that piece of the lake.

If I am trolling and run over a reef I don't have marked, how do I know if it is private or not? Is it possible to have numbers for every public reef? 

Thanks,

P_


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## Kim

Interesting post here. As electronics continue to improve "private spots" won't stay private very long. As bottom machines continue to improve enabling anglers to find structure and fish more readily than ever before, the spots will be found. Add to that a little thing called radar and you can pick spots off from over the horizon, people do it all the time.

Putting out reefs is a good thing for everyone. It gives habitat to the fish and places for anglers to catch fish. There is no sense in getting upset when you find a charter boat, a big recreational boat or a center console sitting on a reef that you have deployed. All you can do is hope that they will not hammer the spot and give the numbers to everyone they know. The GOM belongs to all of us equally and we should all remember that.


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## thecalmbeforethestorm

i agree fishing is supposed to be fun i grew up doing it and still continuously fish , abiding by laws that were set forth both inland and offshore. i cant help i got on the wrong boat shit happens.. he paid for what he has done so it doesn't even matter anymore god takes care of everything in time and he's tasting all the carma for being a phsycho over a spot. im curious how much does a pyramid reef cost? i thought about investing my money towards something that i love and be part of the solution in helping restore our reefs.


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## markw4321

thecalmbeforethestorm said:


> i agree fishing is supposed to be fun i grew up doing it and still continuously fish , abiding by laws that were set forth both inland and offshore. i cant help i got on the wrong boat shit happens.. he paid for what he has done so it doesn't even matter anymore god takes care of everything in time and he's tasting all the carma for being a phsycho over a spot. im curious how much does a pyramid reef cost? i thought about investing my money towards something that i love and be part of the solution in helping restore our reefs.


WhY would you want to invest hundreds of dollars in a reef when someone will find it and fish the s?;t out of it and then tell you that you don't own that spot?


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## thecalmbeforethestorm

i just want to help build the structural habitat bigger than what it is so we have more places to fish in the future and the fish populations will grow bigger each year if people abide by limits and fishing regs. i love the water as much as all of you and i dont mind contributing to a better future


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## jjam

thecalmbeforethestorm said:


> i just want to help build the structural habitat bigger than what it is so we have more places to fish in the future and the fish populations will grow bigger each year if people abide by limits and fishing regs. i love the water as much as all of you and i dont mind contributing to a better future


 
Rock on thecalmbeforethestorm, if all anglers approached the mighty G.O.M. with that attitude, she would definitely be a healthier fishery for all whom wish to drop a line or splash with a spear gun. 
I prefer to fish natural bottom for many reasons, but have contributed to local reef programs for the reasons mentioned above. :thumbup:

Jimmy


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## markw4321

thecalmbeforethestorm said:


> i just want to help build the structural habitat bigger than what it is so we have more places to fish in the future and the fish populations will grow bigger each year if people abide by limits and fishing regs. i love the water as much as all of you and i dont mind contributing to a better future


I like your response. My initial question was rhetorical in nature. If we
all would treat each other like we would want to be treated while on the water the Gulf would be a better place.


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## thecalmbeforethestorm

i agree 100% Mark ..... the retorical question went way over my head lol


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## scaly neck

thecalmbeforethestorm said:


> im curious how much does a pyramid reef cost? i thought about investing my money towards something that i love and be part of the solution in helping restore our reefs.


I would like to follow up from this post and Capt Mikes....about being part of the solution....I would also like to invest in building some reefs, does anyone know how much, where to get them and how to deploy them. I know if we all worked together we could get enough "reefs" out there to fish them and be good stewards. Plus in the meantime the freemarket would help keep someone employed by paying them to make the Pyramids then take the pyramid reefs out....there are alot of posibilities on making this better.... or we can just be mad and " glare" at each other ....i for one prefer to work together. I would pay to have some reefs put offshore in Navarre for the Kayakers to fish.... i know there are other Kayakers that feel the same.. supply and demand...demand and supply.. there needs to be a natural balance....just my two cents....


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## capt mike

*Reply to Scaly Neck*

Scaly Neck
Your response was one of a positive nature. I really appreciate that. This forum gets testy at times and when you weigh everything out their is a vast difference in the fishermen and women who read this information. I'm not going to go into what's been hashed out in sometimes harsh but truthful words but if you are interested in making a difference you can e-mail me at [email protected], give me your phone # and I will be glad to call you and answer any questions you have. 
Thanks
Capt. Mike:thumbup:


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## wheelin

hell lets share the wealth i would


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## WannaBay

Question:
If I pull up on a reef I found with my electronics, how will I know if it's Captn Mike's?

No, seriously. Reel Wins, I'll be in town in 2 or 3 days. I think I'll call you to check about the availability of your combos for sale.


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## MrFish

Reached way back for this one.

If you find a reef and it has fish on it, then fish the thing.


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## WannaBay

MrFish said:


> Reached way back for this one.
> 
> If you find a reef and it has fish on it, then fish the thing.


Agreed...
Actually I had noticed Reel Wins combos for sale and was reviewing his threads to see if I can get an idea of where he was located. Figured he would get the message if I bumped his thread!
Yep yep yep...


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## sealark

In a couple more years Public reefs will become a navigation hazard there are so many out there it will be impossible to have one boat on every reef on opening day tomorrow. I sure am glad I am 75 years old and seen it all. Now I just sit back and laugh. Just go get the public numbers and put them on your machine and watch the fathometer as you slowly run between numbers, you will find hundreds more in a years time. Small craft advisory is up for tomorrow.


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## ST1300rider

You kids get off my dang reef (tomorrow)!


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## jack2

WannaBay said:


> Agreed...
> Actually I had noticed Reel Wins combos for sale and was reviewing his threads to see if I can get an idea of where he was located. Figured he would get the message if I bumped his thread!
> Yep yep yep...


yep
and everybody on here has to read 10 pages just to realize,hell, i already ready that shit 10 years ago.

jack


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## H2OMARK

No kidding. What's up with all these 10 year old posts showing back up?


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## jack2

they don't how to start a new thread, mark.
it's kinda irritating but i'm starting to look at the op date.

jack


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## jackfish28

Private wrecks don’t increase fish populations, they actually reduce them by making them easy to find. Don’t you read and believe all of NOAA reef fish reports?? 
The more reefs you build and the larger the average snapper gets the shorter the season will become for Recreational anglers. A few more reefs and seasons and they will average 20 pounds and we will not get to keep any at all........

Would be nice to see some of those Katrina dollars spent on some new fishing reefs and oyster repopulation but that would actually make sense


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