# Dear boat captain



## LSA05 (Jun 2, 2015)

Dear Idiots on this boat,

Have you ever put your car on cruise control and stared at your rear seat for 5 minutes? Didn't think so. Don't do it in your boat. Just because the ocean is vast doesn't mean there is nothing out there to hit. Hell the way you were cruising you could of smashed into a yacht. 6 dudes in a boat all facing the rear. ???? You almost killed my buddy and his friend. An apology would of been cool instead of gunning it out of there like an idiot as well. Wish my camera could of got a better look.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Dang!!!
Lucky it wasn't a tournament bass fisherman - They see you but hit you anyway!


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Ummmmm, the video evidence is damning.


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## LSA05 (Jun 2, 2015)

MrFish said:


> Ummmmm, the video evidence is damning.


I know I know. lol. Why I said I wish I could of got a better shot. Video or no video. Watch where you are going.


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## onemorecast (Feb 16, 2009)

Wow!!!!!!


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

I had a flats boat achored at the Massachusetts and had a boat almost run right over me in broad daylight. Passed off my side by about 5 feet and while he was yelling, saying I need to stay out his way, missed the west turret by maybe 10 feet.


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## KingMe!!! (Apr 25, 2008)

While I agree with you I will say that kayak fisherman are very hard to see while on the water. I say this from a perspective of owning and fishing from both. Be care out there and if I were fishing from a kayak offshore I'd consider wearing some brightly colored cloths.


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## LSA05 (Jun 2, 2015)

KingMe!!! said:


> While I agree with you I will say that kayak fisherman are very hard to see while on the water. I say this from a perspective of owning and fishing from both. Be care out there and if I were fishing from a kayak offshore I'd consider wearing some brightly colored cloths.


Yeah I've seen kayakers from a boats perspective. I try to to keep my head on a swivel as best as I can.


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## NKlamerus (Jan 4, 2016)

"I shot a flare in order to make sure he saw me, it's not my fault it fell towards him"


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## Chapman5011 (Mar 7, 2013)

Be careful out there. I don't know how far out you were, but some of these boats are on cruise control. 
Where bright bright colors.i even recommend a orange go cart flag.
I've almost had a bad situation with a hunter green yak and the guy was wearing a hunter green shirt in dirty green gulf water . He was completely almost invisible until you got right up on him. 
Be aware of you situation at all times, because you never know who's behind the wheel, and how many beers deep they are from their 12 hour trip.
Be safe out there brother. hi visibility is your best friend


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

Looks like there is a flag on that kayak. I do agree that when you are in a boat they can be incredibly difficult to see, but looked like they were trying to be as easily spotted as you could expect.


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## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

KingMe!!! said:


> While I agree with you I will say that kayak fisherman are very hard to see while on the water. I say this from a perspective of owning and fishing from both. Be care out there and if I were fishing from a kayak offshore I'd consider wearing some brightly colored cloths.




I have made trips back in when the rain is so hard that everyone is headed in at all rates of speed in near blinding conditions... I would imagine yaks are the Last thing on most of their minds..... I agree that Yaks should not have to flag themselves out with Dayglow vests and Flags, but Personally, if I Yaked in the GOM I would consider the Neon Yellow Day-Glo strips on my vest and Paddle tips...


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## wld1985 (Oct 2, 2007)

I didn't watch the video but from the comments yes a lot of boaters don't not attention. Wife and I went camping Saturday night past fort mcree Sunday morning about 10am a family in a boat come pulling right up 10 feet from our boat and set up shop with the tent in full view. Huh? There's miles of beach land and you decide to come here and park?


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## FreeLine (Oct 5, 2007)

Yaks are hard to see sometimes, and they are showing up in places where boaters do not expect to see them. Just be aware of that. Also, keep in mind that some boaters undoubtedly have been drinking. If I were still kayaking, I would want a bright hull, a big flag, and bright clothing - and I would be careful about where I yakked.


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## NLytle (May 13, 2014)

There are somethings I don't get about these situations. 

Boaters avoid debris all day while on the water but they can't see a 12'+ floating object? However, they can see a log from a quarter mile. 

Ya, it's called not paying attention. Typically, kayakers aren't out in heavy chop or high waves. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

It's hard to see even dayglow orange flags and reflective tape on a paddle...when your entire crew is standing on the back of the boat looking the wrong way, that guy needs an anchor wrapped around his head.


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## First Cast (Oct 8, 2007)

Geesh, close call. Maybe a handheld compressed air horn would work better than a yell?


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

NLytle said:


> There are somethings I don't get about these situations.
> 
> Boaters avoid debris all day while on the water but they can't see a 12'+ floating object? However, they can see a log from a quarter mile.
> 
> ...


Boaters hit debris all the time too. I've been out there a couple time when the swells were so bad that if you wanst looking in the same exact spot the yakker was at the same time he crested on the wave there was no way in hell you could see him.


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## NLytle (May 13, 2014)

Splittine said:


> Boaters hit debris all the time too. I've been out there a couple time when the swells were so bad that if you wanst looking in the same exact spot the yakker was at the same time he crested on the wave there was no way in hell you could see him.




Big swells are dangerous and if a kayaker is out there without a flag or a signaling device it's on them. 

I understand boaters hit debris but do the hit 12+' piece of debris that are 90% above water?


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

NLytle said:


> Big swells are dangerous and if a kayaker is out there without a flag or a signaling device it's on them.
> 
> I understand boaters hit debris but do the hit 12+' piece of debris that are 90% above water?


It's happened numerous times before. There was a guy on here years ago that hit a floating tree offshore. I'm not saying boaters don't need to pay more attention I'm saying the guys in the yaks need to take some precautions too. Especially running 3-5 miles offshore.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

Have you personally been on a boat and come across a kayak? It's really not as obvious as you might think all the time.


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## a (Oct 2, 2007)

If I was a kayak CAPTAIN, I would pay more attention to where I endangered myself. Kayaks where not meant for use in areas of high boating traffic.....expect interaction.....with bigger boats ....duh.


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

a said:


> If I was a kayak CAPTAIN, I would pay more attention to where I endangered myself. Kayaks where not meant for use in areas of high boating traffic.....expect interaction.....with bigger boats ....duh.


Are you saying a kayak shouldn't be in the gulf? Because of boat traffic?


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## daniel9829 (Jan 31, 2009)

Not defending the boat but, some Kayakers have darker kayaks. Look at them out away form the distance and you will see that they become almost be invisible. I have and use a bright Yellow kayak that can be seen. This still does not take any responsibility of the boater for not paying attention. Did you call the Marine Police? I would have and given the boat name. Do you know that or a description?


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## DLo (Oct 2, 2007)

a said:


> If I was a kayak CAPTAIN, I would pay more attention to where I endangered myself. Kayaks where not meant for use in areas of high boating traffic.....expect interaction.....with bigger boats ....duh.


Could you show us the map that shows where kayaks were meant for use, then we will all be on the same page, thanks cap.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

lol.....


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

a said:


> If I was a kayak CAPTAIN, I would pay more attention to where I endangered myself. Kayaks where not meant for use in areas of high boating traffic.....expect interaction.....with bigger boats ....duh.


That's a pretty arrogant statement from a "Coast Guard Licensed Captain" and "FFF Certified Casting Instructor".

Rule 5 states: Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

Just because a boat is three miles offshore that does not relieve the "Captain" of the responsibility of a proper lookout. Kayaks are legal vessels just like the power boat. They have just as much right to be there as anyone else. Most likely they are better prepared for an emergency than your average powerboat guy. Their biggest real endangerment comes from some arrogant, drunken, asshat not looking out ahead.

I have had to change how I operate a vessel because of the increased presence of kayaks and small vessels. That's just part of being out there. I also keep my head on a swivel and look out for the idiots who aren't looking for me when I'm in a kayak. 

And while I expect "interaction" that does not include being run over. A little wake maybe but run over, no...Duh.


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## hjorgan (Sep 30, 2007)

WHOOPS: Googled it Radar reflector study

http://www.seagrant.umaine.edu/files/pdf-global/05raref.pdf

After scanning this study, guess what works best?? A TIN FOIL HAT!!!! Yessir. I knew it.

Why don'k kayaks have a radar reflector built in? We have those No Motor bouys around Ono Island and they show up on radar with a HUGE mark.

Of course you have to be watching your radar not the back of the boat.


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## MaxxT (May 9, 2015)

Yaks are fun and dangerous too. They are very hard to see so use Larger flags, bright colors, tin foil hats and air horns cannot be too careful. I am surprised yaks are not run over almost everyday, lots of new operators and no safety training requirement.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

Rotomolded death traps. Y'all would be safer in a 270 yeti, lid and vents closed.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

Wirelessly posted

I see it all the time in the ICW. Kayaks operating after dusk without any lights. Last evening was no exception. Almost mentioned it to them but I'm sure my comments would not have been well received. 

If I had a kayak, I would mount an LED strobe as high up as possible on the flag pole. 

Planes run strobes while flying for visibility. 

Even in full sun, a flashing strobe will get one's attention. 

Above all, ALWAYS assume the other boater has not seen you.


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

Are we really having this discussion again? If you are in a yak....make yourself seen. If you are in a boat...watch where you are going. Dead is dead regardless of who's at fault.


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## whalerjon (May 7, 2010)

I don't think any boater wishes to harm a yakker but you guys have to understand that, even with a proper lookout on the boat, you guys(yaks) are often very, very difficult to see. Very similar to someone laying in the road. Your extremely low profile combined with sea state, glare, etc, often makes you nearly invisible. Everybody be careful out there.


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

Any of you talking about the yaks responsibility need to watch the video and stop blaming the victim. Or do you blame the girl in the tight dress for getting raped too?


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## jspooney (Oct 2, 2007)

startzc said:


> Any of you talking about the yaks responsibility need to watch the video and stop blaming the victim. Or do you blame the girl in the tight dress for getting raped too?


 Horrible analogy. One is an issue of morality, the other is an issue of attentiveness. And yes, kayaks bear some responsibility. I never cease to be amazed at how many yakkers get their panties in a wad at not being seen, and then stand on the roof top and say "you must see me but I don't have to try to be seen!!!" Now, not all yakkers have this attitude, but it does seem to be quite prevalent in the yak community. At a busy city intersection pedestrians have the right away at times, but they still have to make proper arrangements for not being hit. In Pensacola people are hit all the time while crossing the road at night...while wearing black clothes. Duh!


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Kayaks - water version of motorcycles.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Try'n Hard said:


> Kayaks - water version of motorcycles.


Except motorcycles are as fast or faster than cars. Kayaks can only outrun a manatee.


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Honestly guys, I admire you for your devotion to your sport but to me, kayaks are a vessel for protected waters, not the gulf.
We've had 2 or 3 kayakers around here in the past couple of years whose bodies were never found. 
Y'all be safe.


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## keperry1182 (Oct 6, 2010)

How many boaters were killed last year? Boating of any kind is dangerous. Kayaks have every bit as much of a right to be there as any other boat, and frankly it's motorized boats that are the new comers, not kayaks. Safety is everyone's concern and I promise you, no one is more aware of the danger than a kayaker is. If you're out at night without a light you're a dummy and that's got nothing to do with the kayak.


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

Try'n Hard said:


> Dang!!!
> Lucky it wasn't a tournament bass fisherman - They see you but hit you anyway!


And throw bleach on you!


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## LSA05 (Jun 2, 2015)

This post has 1843 views. I posted it in hopes that the guy on the boat might take a peak. Had no idea it would upset some people. No need to argue. Yes kayaks are not as visible as the average boat(and we know that and do our best to be seen and stay out of the way) but the point was the man wasn't looking where he was going. He could of smacked the Pensacola beach water tower if it was out there.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I've sat in the tower of a 64' viking at a slow chug cobia fishing and had a yak "pop up out of nowhere"... the damn things are hard to see, and that's a huge understatement. 

Hell, even the yellow kayaks are hard to see in my opinion.... orange or red definitely stand out the best.


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

Hell, when I had a 13 whaler it was bad enough.


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## NLytle (May 13, 2014)

Splittine said:


> Have you personally been on a boat and come across a kayak? It's really not as obvious as you might think all the time.




Hey Split, Sorry for the delay. I have seen my fair share of kayaks from various watercraft. I'm a kayaker and am use to keeping my head on a swivel. Some people aren't use to being the smallest object on the water and don't pay attention. 

A similar conversation is probably the reason "Watch for Motorcycles" become a bumper sticker. 

"Look twice for Kayaks". Anyone interested?


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

NLytle said:


> A similar conversation is probably the reason "Watch for Motorcycles" become a bumper sticker.
> 
> "Look twice for Kayaks". Anyone interested?




When on my kayak at 3 mile I take the attitude that every boat captain is Foster Brooks drunk. You will have to hit a piling before you hit me! It's called defensive kayaking. That don't work in open water soooooo.... I stay out of open water! Just me. Try'n hards to purty for prop rash!!


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

And speaking of ol' foster Brooks I found this for you young yakees


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## jvalhenson (May 14, 2008)

Wont be popular with the yak crowd but its my opinion.....they have absolutely no business out there in areas of heavy boat traffic or open water in general. Hard to see and for some reason a lot of them think they need to paddle slowly across a busy channel and expect all boats to just give way to them even though they are crossing a channel. Again not all have that attitude but a lot seem to. We do our best to avoid them but they sure seem to love to get right in the middle of where boats have to go so sorry if you do not like it but I am not coming off plane or whatever to stop and let a yak cross a busy channel. You roll the dice and go into those kind of places be prepared to deal with boat wakes. You put yourself there you are just another boater and should be treated as such. Maintain safe operation around you but not go out of the way to avoid you completely. I am referring to open water and heavy boat traffic areas like busy channels etc only...not talking about harbors, around old piers, marsh, very close to shore etc type places which again IMO are the only places a yak need to be. Like I said I know that wont be popular with the yak crowd but oh well that is my opinion and I know it is shared with a whole lot of other boaters and even a few yakers.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

jvalhenson said:


> Wont be popular with the yak crowd but its my opinion.....they have absolutely no business out there in areas of heavy boat traffic or open water in general. Hard to see and for some reason a lot of them think they need to paddle slowly across a busy channel and expect all boats to just give way to them even though they are crossing a channel. Again not all have that attitude but a lot seem to. We do our best to avoid them but they sure seem to love to get right in the middle of where boats have to go so sorry if you do not like it but I am not coming off plane or whatever to stop and let a yak cross a busy channel. You roll the dice and go into those kind of places be prepared to deal with boat wakes. You put yourself there you are just another boater and should be treated as such. Maintain safe operation around you but not go out of the way to avoid you completely. I am referring to open water and heavy boat traffic areas like busy channels etc only...not talking about harbors, around old piers, marsh, very close to shore etc type places which again IMO are the only places a yak need to be. Like I said I know that wont be popular with the yak crowd but oh well that is my opinion and I know it is shared with a whole lot of other boaters and even a few yakers.


wow! there ya go - whats really wrong with the world


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Maybe somebody needs to invent (or maybe they already have) a strobe that goes on top of a 6' rod to attach to the kayak.
I don't think anybody wants to see you guys get hurt.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

Doesn't matter how many strobes and flags and reflective whatzits a kayak has, if the dumbass behind the wheel of a power boat is looking aft and bullshitting with his buddies, or screwing around on a phone, he won't see the kayak.

Kayaks...Try and be visible. 

Powerboats...Put down the beer, or phone, or whatever has you distracted, keep a sharp lookout and act accordingly. You are responsible for your wake. If you kill one of these guys you'll be the one at fault. You're probably on camera already. Everybody knows Yakers love to film themselves.


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## jvalhenson (May 14, 2008)

Try'n Hard said:


> wow! there ya go - whats really wrong with the world


really??? So saying that everyone should be responsible for themselves and use some common sense on where they go in a kayak is whats wrong with the world. Very clearly said that we avoid them as much as possible but sorry they do not own the water even though they act like they do(some of them.) We always watch where we are going and keep a look out and operate safely around them and I am not talking about what happened in this case with people running blindly that is of absurd. But it is just as absurd to paddle out in a busy channel and expect every boat that comes by to bend to your will. You put yourself in those areas be prepared to deal with it. I compare it to riding a bicycle on the interstate. There is a reason they are not allowed there.....bc it is ridiculously dangerous.....just like a kayak in a busy channel. My opinion what is wrong with the world......wrong......it is the thought that oh I can go do whatever I want and take no responsibility for what happens me that is wrong with the world.


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

A busy channel is one thing but kayakers and boats go all over. Snapper season is close and the near shore wrecks will be covered with yaks and boats. Is that to say the route to any popular fishing hole is a "busy channel"? And how dare they go where boats go? Personally, I'm happy to slow down or go way around a smaller boat, which is what a kayak is... it's a quick turn of the wheel to give someone extra berth, no biggie.

When I was a yakker, I did like try'n and assumed every captain was either drunk or had something against kayakers.


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## jvalhenson (May 14, 2008)

Never said kayaks cannot be on the water. I said IMO they do not belong in areas of heavy boat traffic and personally I do not consider them a safe way to go in open water. Again that is an opinion. People take those 12ft yaks in places they say a 16 ft boat has no business going. That's the type places I'm talking about which I thought I made very clear. Also made it very clear we avoid them as much as possible but if they choose to paddle around an area of heavy boat traffic why should they expect anything other than boaters maintaining safe operation around them? Really don't see how a kayak deserves any more consideration in THOSE areas than any other boat. Again not talking small water I'm talking about those that choose to go into heavy traffic areas then expect everyone bow to their will. Sorry if you choose to be in those places you are another boater be responsible for yourself and stop with the Me me me go around me avoid me me me attitudes. Like I said there's a reason bicycles are not allowed on the interstate. Common sense is sadly a dying thing in all areas.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

jvalhenson said:


> they sure seem to love to get right in the middle of where boats have to go so sorry if you do not like it but I am not coming off plane or whatever to stop and let a yak cross a busy channel. You roll the dice and go into those kind of places be prepared to deal with boat wakes. You put yourself there you are just another boater and should be treated as such. .



Specifically the apathetic statement above. I assume it wouldn't bother you to swamp someone or flip them over? I guess you expect everyone on the water to be experienced and an expert. I don't care how big your boat is you have no more rights than a guy in a rubber dinghy.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

jvalhenson said:


> ... I am not coming off plane or whatever to stop and let a yak cross a busy channel.
> 
> Seems allot different from...
> 
> ...


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## jvalhenson (May 14, 2008)

Try'n Hard said:


> Specifically the apathetic statement above. I assume it wouldn't bother you to swamp someone or flip them over? I guess you expect everyone on the water to be experienced and an expert. I don't care how big your boat is you have no more rights than a guy in a rubber dinghy.


Ha exactly my point. No one has any more right than anyone else. So why should all boat traffic in a busy channel have to yield to the one selfish guy in a kayak that decides to paddle across it? They have no more right than anyone else. Already said several times we avoid them when possible and always operate safely around them. They nor anyone else deserve any more than that. For the record 99% of my fishing is done in an old 1548 with 15 hp so I am not in much better spot than a kayak and I sure ain't swamping anyone if anything I'll be the one getting swamped. Point being I take responsibility for myself. I do not expect a 60ft sport fisher to slow down or stop for me when I am crossing or running in a channel. I take it on myself to stay safe not relying on someone else. Again it's simple common sense. You choose to yak in those areas expect to deal with boats.


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## jvalhenson (May 14, 2008)

ghost95 said:


> jvalhenson said:
> 
> 
> > ... I am not coming off plane or whatever to stop and let a yak cross a busy channel.
> ...


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## welldoya (Oct 5, 2007)

Kayakers, help me understand this, I'm serious.
I own a 13' Boston Whaler. It's very stable, unsinkable and fairly fast but I would never consider taking it outside the pass or even in the pass because I don't think it would be safe. I know you guys do both in a boat that's not as stable and can't move out of the way as quickly as my boat can.
Am I being overly cautious ?
Or anybody that fishes the pass and outside the pass in a similar boat, please chime in.


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## sureicanfish (Sep 30, 2007)

welldoya said:


> Kayakers, help me understand this, I'm serious.
> I own a 13' Boston Whaler. It's very stable, unsinkable and fairly fast but I would never consider taking it outside the pass or even in the pass because I don't think it would be safe. I know you guys do both in a boat that's not as stable and can't move out of the way as quickly as my boat can.
> Am I being overly cautious ?
> Or anybody that fishes the pass and outside the pass in a similar boat, please chime in.


You're a wimp! I'm rigging up a boogie-board for a few snapper trips.

Really, it's all preference I guess. I always felt relatively safe in my sit on top kayak, on a nice day...


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

jvalhenson said:


> ghost95 said:
> 
> 
> > Try reading again....I said a boat running IN channel should not have to give way to a kayak CROSSING a channel. Give way and stand on rules apply across the board.
> ...


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## Magic Mike (Jun 30, 2009)

For me... Give me 30 yards and don't come off plane. Typically a boat coming off plane will throw a bigger wake unless they drop down to an idle. IF you see me crossing a channel in a yak, I'm trying to get to a place I want to fish... I'll be out of the way as soon as I can. Gently alter your course a couple of degrees and be on your way.... its not like channels are 10' wide around here. If someone is operating a boat like they don't see me, I have a whistle, a horn, and the ability to stand and wave my arms like a lunatic shouting at the top of my lungs.

Welldoya, pick your days. I wouldn't hesitate going 7-10 miles out in a Whaler on flat seas. I would be certain to leave a float plan with someone tho.


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## Lady J (Jul 14, 2013)

...


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Thing for me is the attitude that if your in my way - screw you! Sorry - but life is much better when you have patience with folks. At least for me. It might be illegal to ride a bike on the interstate, but if you do it - I won't run you over and kill you! I won't even swerve and try to scare you. I don't mind one dang bit dropping my boat off plane for you even if your drunk butt is standing on the bow taking a wizz. 
It is an effort but slowing down and smiling and waving at someone whom you think is a complete idiot could be good for all these young supermen that populate this forum. Caring and showing compassion for your fellow man is not a weakness.


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## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

Why do you have to be drunk to take a wizz off the bow? Some of us need the extra height....


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

MrFish said:


> Why do you have to be drunk to take a wizz off the bow? Some of us need the extra height....




If "lil mr fish" is that long I may just throttle up and wash you up in the bushes


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## Outside9 (Apr 30, 2008)

Everyone running a boat needs to keep their head on a swivel, you never know what may be bobbing around out there. If I were a yaker, I would try and rig up a flag or something similar they they do on ATVs.

I think the yakers are hardcore, like a bow hunter using a recurve bow.


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## 84flyer (Mar 24, 2010)

welldoya said:


> Kayakers, help me understand this, I'm serious.
> I own a 13' Boston Whaler. It's very stable, unsinkable and fairly fast but I would never consider taking it outside the pass or even in the pass because I don't think it would be safe. I know you guys do both in a boat that's not as stable and can't move out of the way as quickly as my boat can.
> Am I being overly cautious ?
> Or anybody that fishes the pass and outside the pass in a similar boat, please chime in.


There are days when I would launch my Outback from the beach before I would take my 21 foot boat through the pass. Wind direction, wind speed, and currents/tides can make the pass a washing machine, all while the near-shore conditions in the GOM are not bad at all past the breakers.

As far as taking a 13 foot boat through the pass, I personally would not go far at all, even under great conditions/forecast. If conditions suddenly worsen you still have to get back in through the pass. A kayak can beach itself without dealing with the pass.


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## Orion45 (Jun 26, 2008)

ghost95 said:


> *While vessels under 1600 GT are not specifically required to manage their speed in regards to wake, they are still required to operate in a prudent matter which does not endanger life, limb, or property (46 USC 2302). Nor do the Navigation Rules exonerate any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2), which, among other things, could be unsafe speeds (Rule 6), improper lookout (Rule 5), or completely ignoring your responsibilities as prescribed by the Navigation Rules*.


Applies to both boaters.

For example, in a vessel collision, there might not be one boater who is 100% at fault. Blame is usually assigned to both boaters on a percentage basis.

For instance, you are the stand-on vessel but you do not take evasive action to avoid collision with a give-way vessel, both of you will be assigned a percentage of the blame...e.g. 40% and 60% respectively.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

Orion45 said:


> Applies to both boaters.
> 
> For example, in a vessel collision, there might not be one boater who is 100% at fault. Blame is usually assigned to both boaters on a percentage basis.
> 
> For instance, you are the stand-on vessel but you do not take evasive action to avoid collision with a give-way vessel, both of you will be assigned a percentage of the blame...e.g. 40% and 60% respectively.


You sir are 100% correct, especially concerning a collision. However this was more about someone not coming off plane and throwing a wake because he didn't think yaks should be in channels. Throwing a wake would be considered negligent and unsafe operation given the conditions (small vessels in the area) and would put life and property at risk. His opinion was that yaks shouldn't be there because HE thought it was incredibly dangerous so he chooses not to come off plane and yakers be damned because they chose to be there. That is the attitude that people in yaks get pissed about. They have just as much of a right to navigate the waterways as anyone else. 

Now I would be willing to bet that if he was in his boat and a sportfish came by throwing a wake and swamped him he'd be all pissy about the unsafe operator and how big boats captains think they own the water and so on.

I love to run powerboats but I do my best not to get into a situation where I might hurt one of the yakers (or guys in a john boat at the Mass). If I don't see them until the last second and wake them, I slow down to make sure they're ok. I'd hate to think I hurt someone out there regardless of if it is in open water, a back bayou, or in a channel. I've been the guy in the yak too so I get both sides. 

Hope everyone has a safe day in yaks and powerboats.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

When I had my flats boat, it ran a little over 60. Running at that speed and suddenly having to go to idle because someone thinks their peddle powered yak is equal to a 115 Johnson is insane. Why not launch out from the side of the channel you want to fish?

Yaks are the bicycles of the gulf.
..sure...you are allowed to be there.....BUT....is it safe for you to be there? Much like the bicyclists who get on Sorrento Road, a 2 lane 55MPH road, riding the white line, instead of taking the safer route down old Gulf Beach Hiway.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

kingfish501 said:


> When I had my flats boat, it ran a little over 60. Running at that speed and suddenly having to go to idle because someone thinks their peddle powered yak is equal to a 115 Johnson is insane. Why not launch out from the side of the channel you want to fish?
> 
> Yaks are the bicycles of the gulf.
> ..sure...you are allowed to be there.....BUT....is it safe for you to be there? Much like the bicyclists who get on Sorrento Road, a 2 lane 55MPH road, riding the white line, instead of taking the safer route down old Gulf Beach Hiway.


I'm not trying to be an ass, although it happens, but...If you were fishing around a channel marker in say, Big Lagoon, in your flats boat, and a 54' Bertram comes screaming down the channel throwing the wake that they do, wouldn't you want him to slow down before he got to you and drop the wake? Don't you have a reasonable expectation of the safe operation by other boat operators, and that the guy driving is looking out and operating at a safe speed for the conditions at the time (which includes you in a small vessel in the area)? Or would you have him stay hooked up and possibly swamp your boat? If he didn't slow down and you got swamped, would you be like, ok, no biggie, I guess I deserved that for being out here in a little flats boat and not on the flat where I belonged? Maybe you would but I doubt it.

The Sorrento road and bicycle thing isn't really a good comparison. Sorrento is a narrow road where the Gulf is a vast expanse of water. Plenty of room for people to go around yaks in the gulf. Not much room to move on Sorrento.

The waterways are changing and and so are the vessels that use them. People who have run all their lives drinking beer and looking aft are going to have to learn to operate more safely or they are going to kill someone. It won't be the guys in the power boat. It will be someones kid, or brother, or husband or wife.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

kingfish501 said:


> When I had my flats boat, it ran a little over 60. Running at that speed and suddenly having to go to idle because someone thinks their peddle powered yak is equal to a 115 Johnson is insane.



Is that what you really meant to type?


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## NKlamerus (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh yeah, because of greed and incompetence.


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

No one sits there and stares out the front of the boat for an entire trip. Then if there is some spray coming over the bow it makes vis even worse to see a small kayak that is below a swell one second and in front of you the next. I like the air horn idea the best for a kayak owner. So far for me I haven collided with any kayak but I have been surprised a couple times to be close to them and haven't noticed quick enough. be careful and both watch out for the other. Saturday will be bumpy with swells most likely so be extra careful.


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

This thread sucks.


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## 192 (Oct 1, 2007)

John B. said:


> This thread sucks.


Lotta gay, but thats what happens when a pier rat gets in a plastic puddle jumper.

They have t-shirts now:thumbsup:


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## axman (May 11, 2011)

I have spent over 4k on a FLIR on my boat just to help see yaks and paddle boarders on my way to the pass due to them in the ICW from Navarre to Pensacola. It is a 18 mile run and we try to leave early. I have almost hit a couple in route in the channel and some were laying flat on the board. Needless to say they all give me inappropriate hand signals after each and every encounter. A strobe would probable saved me some money.


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## Splittine (Nov 24, 2007)

ghost95 said:


> I'm not trying to be an ass, although it happens, but...If you were fishing around a channel marker in say, Big Lagoon, in your flats boat, and a 54' Bertram comes screaming down the channel throwing the wake that they do, wouldn't you want him to slow down before he got to you and drop the wake? Don't you have a reasonable expectation of the safe operation by other boat operators, and that the guy driving is looking out and operating at a safe speed for the conditions at the time (which includes you in a small vessel in the area)? Or would you have him stay hooked up and possibly swamp your boat? If he didn't slow down and you got swamped, would you be like, ok, no biggie, I guess I deserved that for being out here in a little flats boat and not on the flat where I belonged? Maybe you would but I doubt it.
> 
> The Sorrento road and bicycle thing isn't really a good comparison. Sorrento is a narrow road where the Gulf is a vast expanse of water. Plenty of room for people to go around yaks in the gulf. Not much room to move on Sorrento.
> 
> The waterways are changing and and so are the vessels that use them. People who have run all their lives drinking beer and looking aft are going to have to learn to operate more safely or they are going to kill someone. It won't be the guys in the power boat. It will be someones kid, or brother, or husband or wife.




A 54' Bertram will throw a lot bigger wake by slowing down and coming off plane that it will running wide open.


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## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

The next trip out in my 54'Bert. I'll try to remember to look back. Just don't record me not looking where I'm going and post it here......


Sent through Tapatalk, even though they ruined it with "upgrades"...


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## bfason (Oct 24, 2014)

How far across open water do you think you can see a standard 18-20' bay boat running into the sun where the side of the boat you are approaching is shaded? running with sun to your back where side of boat is visible in the sun? if the water is slick? or choppy?

How far across open water do you think you can see a kayak running into the sun where the side of the kayak you are approaching is shaded? running with sun to your back where side of boat is visible in the sun?if the water is slick? or choppy?

I think the answers to these questions will explain a lot of close encounters. Where we may be able to see another boat over a mile away, you may have to be within a couple hundred yards of a yak before seeing them.


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## snake 166 (Oct 2, 2007)

If you hit a kayak because you didn't see them you are fucked. No excuses. 

I would appreciate it if kayakers flew a flag and carried an air horn rather than whistle.


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## Hook (Oct 2, 2007)

A boat is responsible for its wake. Problem is you must be able to identify the driver of the boat not the owner. I found out years ago!


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## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

grouper22 said:


> Lotta gay, but thats what happens when a pier rat gets in a plastic puddle jumper.
> 
> They have t-shirts now:thumbsup:


I thought when you got a kayak it came with a free set of roller blades and white costas.


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## Blake R. (Mar 17, 2009)

Naw, that's when you buy the annual pier pass.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Ghost...first....I seldom fish channel markers on a busy stretch.

Second, better reread the regs on wakes....courts have been ruling against yakkers for not using due diligence.

Third....you keep preaching that is totally on boaters....but it is not. You are tbe one stlitting in a craft that is basically submerged. You have what.....4 inches of freeboard? Due diligence says it is up to you to make your craft visible to normal traffic. That means YOU are responsible for taking actions to make your craft more visible....be it a flag, a strobe....whatever.


You want to play on a stealth craft...don't be mad when you succeed and get stealthy.


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## SnapperSlapper (Feb 13, 2009)

ghost95 said:


> You sir are 100% correct, especially concerning a collision. However this was more about someone not coming off plane and throwing a wake because he didn't think yaks should be in channels. Throwing a wake would be considered negligent and unsafe operation given the conditions (small vessels in the area) and would put life and property at risk. His opinion was that yaks shouldn't be there because HE thought it was incredibly dangerous so he chooses not to come off plane and yakers be damned because they chose to be there. That is the attitude that people in yaks get pissed about. They have just as much of a right to navigate the waterways as anyone else.
> 
> Now I would be willing to bet that if he was in his boat and a sportfish came by throwing a wake and swamped him he'd be all pissy about the unsafe operator and how big boats captains think they own the water and so on.
> 
> ...


Ok. Take your kayak to the mouth of SW pass or Mobile Bay. And see how many ships alter their course or change their speed because of a kayak fishing on the edge of the channel. They will not. And they will be throwing a good un. The closest I have ever come to being swamped was at the mouth of SW pass in a 23' Kenner. Tackle boxes floating and a scary amount of water in the boat. The boat that caused the wake. A large coast guard cutter screaming south.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

kingfish501 said:


> Ghost...first....I seldom fish channel markers on a busy stretch.
> 
> Second, better reread the regs on wakes....courts have been ruling against yakkers for not using due diligence.
> 
> ...


What device would you recommend to make kayaks conspicuous to boat operators facing aft in a boat moving forward? Does a 45 make enough noise to get their attention? Kidding....

If a powerboat guy hits a yak in an area that small vessels are known to operate he will be charged. Kayaks are now known to operate in areas that include open waters and channels so we have to look out for them. In the case of a collision both parties will bear some of the blame but the guy on the power boat will take the bigger hit blame wise. The yaker *will* get some of the blame if he's alive to take it.

We're having this discussion/argument/whatever because people, mainly powerboat guys are trying (it sounds like anyway) to justify unsafe operation of vessels because they don't think kayaks should be out in open water/channels/wherever. Afetr all, they weren't there a few years ago, right? Kind of, I dont think they should be there so I don't think I should have to watch out for them. Probably the same type of guys that have almost run over other powerboats while they were at anchor offshore. How dare they be anchored offshore I think everyone should drift fish and be ready to get out of the way.

I don't think it's all powerboat guys. I spend more time in a powerboat than in a yak. But I do see more of the arrogance about who should be allowed where coming from the guys in a powerboat than I do from the yaks. Just how I'm reading it anyway.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

SnapperSlapper said:


> Ok. Take your kayak to the mouth of SW pass or Mobile Bay. And see how many ships alter their course or change their speed because of a kayak fishing on the edge of the channel. They will not. And they will be throwing a good un. The closest I have ever come to being swamped was at the mouth of SW pass in a 23' Kenner. Tackle boxes floating and a scary amount of water in the boat. The boat that caused the wake. A large coast guard cutter screaming south.


Small vessels are required not to impede a vessel that can only navigate within a narrow channel. South West Pass and Mobile Ship Channel are both narrow and small vessels like kayaks and 23' boats are in the wrong there. Those vessels in the channel have to maintain speed navigate, especially down bound in SW Pass. I would bet if it came down to it the yaks in those instances would be cited for some type of unsafe operation, if they found the guys.

Just keep your eyes ahead and concentrate on driving because yaks are known to operate in the areas we all fish now. Times they are a changin'.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

Pier-Dude said:


> I thought when you got a kayak it came with a free set of roller blades and white costas.


Grundens too.


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## 153 Large fish (Nov 30, 2013)

If you're in a kyak...protect yourself...be seen...when offshore, big boats go 30-40 miles...it's like a bicycle on the interstate...hard to see and too slow to get out of trouble...1 foot seas can make yaks invisible...and hey folks a headlamp is not running lights on a yak..I've been close to running them over at 3mb at night....I love yaks justvas much as the next guy ...but there's a lot of people in the cemetery that had the right of way...


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## JoeyWelch (Sep 25, 2009)

Still not as bad as the idiots riding bicycles down the middle of the road.:..


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