# *Warning* my experience with "The Maintenance Shoppe"



## coolbluestreak

I was raised in an area where it was ok to run inboard/outboard drive boats without a problem so my experience with outboards was limited other than the previous owned 1995 Johnson that I had on my bass boat. With the Johnson on the bass boat I never had any issues with the engine performance or performing the seasonal maintenance. Hobbies change and life happens, next thing I know I find myself next to my wife in the middle of a scuba class thinking, we need a boat so we can do this whenever we want. Boat shopping starts, I knew that with all the gear and tanks required for diving that space was a requirement. I set my sights on a 1995 Proline 231WA powered by a 1995 Johnson 225 Oceanrunner and got the go ahead from my wife to pull the trigger on the deal. 
Sea trial went good, I had to have it. 
Took my bride for a ride up the river and the boat ran great. 
Took the boat inshore fishing with a buddy and the boat started hard. 
Took the boat 14 miles off shore at night to jig for some AJ's and everyone got sick including the dog so we headed north since a tropical storm was headed our way anyways. Ran pretty good but had a little bit reduced power so I ordered a rebuild kit for all the carburetors. 
The storm passed so we decided to take advantage of the calm "after the storm". 
The boat started a little hard but never the less it started and ran good. The boat was headed south and then at about the 10.5 mile marker it just died. Wouldn't respond to the throttle. Nothing I could do on the water could get it to restart. 
Thank you Seatow for the prompt service.

The carb rebuild kit arrived in the mail so I back the boat up to the garage, remove the cowling and think to myself....there has got to be someone who specializes in this project that can get me back on the water soon? 

What do I know? Well, I've been a FAA certified aircraft mechanic for over 10 years. I've built homes, remodeled, rebuilt car engines, truck engines, single cylinder dirt bike engines, triple cylinder snowmobile engines, radial aircraft engines and even turbine engines. Installing aftermarket superchargers and turbos is what I call fun but, a outboard motor I know very little about. 
I figure it would be be better to leave this carb rebuild job to the pros since I didn't really have the time to do the job, say nothing about learning about how to do the job. After a quick search on PFF I found a recommendation for "The Maintenance Shoppe" from a fellow diver. The shop was advertising a 5day turn around and that sounded pretty good since this job shouldn't take more than a day or two, I thought. 
Called the phone number and got the owner on the phone, he said to bring the boat in and that they'll get right on it since they're turning boats in less than 7 days. I was like a kid on MTNDEW, I couldn't get there fast enough. Took the boat straight to Creighton Rd after work the next day with my rebuild kit and drop it off for the service/repair. A few days go by and I'm told that the carbs were only a part of that problem and that the timing is off...that stator is bad$...the timer base is bad$... the power pack is bad$ the magnets on the flywheel rotated...the fuel pump is bad, I need the newer/better dual pump since the VRO was no longer used$... This whole time(weeks and months) I'm being told what a great deal I'm getting because he's working on my boat on the side. Wait, what? I never said that I needed a good deal or that I couldn't pay, how did I get the back burner??? Time goes on and I'm informed that my powerhead has bit the dust and will need to be rebuilt. I'm informed that since the condition of the powerhead is/was "unknown" that powerhead rebuild would not be covered by The Maintenance Shoppe. Fair enough, that seems logical, After all, with all the new parts, this motor is going to run like a top with a fresh powerhead. 

I'll try to make a year and a half story short. 

He rebuilt my powerhead, replaced a bunch of components, blew up my powerhead(twice) and wouldn't answer my phone calls or show up to work. A year and a half later I just went and picked up my worthless boat. I lost $8400 on the boat when I sold it without the motor.

Other than a pre-season tuneup I wouldn't use him. 

Here is what I found in my boat when I went to pick up it up: Broken VHF antenna, ignition switch broken, handheld VHF radio broken, broken cuddy door, anchor rope spread from cleat to cleat like spaghetti string, empty cigarette pack and other garbage. 

This is probably a better play by play. 
On March 22, 2012, I took my boat to your facility for repair of the carburetors due to your advertised turnaround time of 5 days. I let you know that I didn’t care how long it took to fix or what needed to be done, I just wanted it back in time for snapper season with my family.

After rebuilding the carburetors, you realized that the boat had timing issues that you weren’t able to adjust. You stated you either needed to cut the flywheel or the crankshaft to be able to adjust the total timing. This went on for weeks.
1st check – Dated 8-30-12 in the amount of $3,000 (Check #502)

After consulting a mechanic from another shop, it was determined that the magnets on the flywheel had spun, a very rare occurrence. Once you fixed this issue, you took the boat on a sea trial to make sure it was repaired and ready to go. While you were driving the boat, the motor blew up. You let me know that we had to get a new powerhead, which would only take a few days to get but there was something broken on mine that wouldn’t allow it to be used as a core. You were going to build that part up with weld and machine it back down. You then had the power head rebuilt by ******* ****** and ******* of Pensacola. You picked up the engine on 10-22-12 and stated you wanted to pump out all the old fuel (120 gallons) and not run it in the new engine. Since then, I made dozens of attempts to resolve this matter.

History of phone calls:
10-22-12 12:24pm – VM from TMS owner, “Just picked up your engine. Next day we’ll get your boat pulled up and start working on getting it together. “

11-9-12 2:25pm – VM from TMS owner, “Boat should be ready to go but unfortunately I’m just not. Thought I was going to be able to make it happen. Fact is, I’m going to go out and put some serious hours on it. I’d like to hand it to you with a full 10 hour break in so there is no if, ands or butts, When you get that motor you can run the doggy crap out of it and you’re not going to break it. “

11-12-12 12:16pm– VM from TMS owner, “Let me know if you want to water test your boat today. What do I need to do to get this thing in the water, make you happy and get your check.”

11-14-12 – TMS owner was going to run the boat all day and then meet at 4pm for a sea trial. He showed up at 4:20pm. I went to sea trial with TMS owner. The boat ran but had problems. He stated that he would have to get the prop repitched. When he pulled out of water, he pulled in front of my truck and said he needed a check to continue working.
2nd check – Dated 11-14-12 in the amount of $2,500 (Check #508)

11-27-12 1:39pm - VM from TMS owner, “ Bolting Carburetors back on after replacing the reeds as we speak. Need to get the boat in the water and run it and then meet.”

12-1-12 – TMS owner called and said, “The boat runs good.” He had me listen to the boat run over the phone. TMS owner stated that he needed to get the prop repitched because it was turning too many RPMs.

12-3-12 10:40am – I called to make sure boat was ready to pick up. TMS owner stated, “Engine blew up again. Cylinder #1 popped just like last time. Power head is under warranty.”

12-10-12 4:58pm – No answer

12-10-12 5:37pm– LM with female to call me back. Left my name and number.

12-11-12 3:22pm– LM with male to call me back. Left my name and number.

12-12-12 11:11am– Rang twice then went to answering machine

12-12-12 5:07pm – TMS owner called – “Phone was broke. Couldn’t see who called. Need front part of motor to warranty. Give me a week to find part.”

12-20-12 5:11pm – LM to call me back. Left my name and number.

12-27-12 3:52pm – LM to call me back. Left my name and number.

12-28-12 11:51am – No answer

12-28-12 11:57am – LM to call me back. Left my name and number.

1-2-13 4:44pm – LM to call me back. Left my name and number.

1-3-13 4:31pm – LM to call me back. Left my name and number.

1-4-13 4:53pm – LM to call me back. Left my name and number.


This was my experience as I can describe and still fall within the posting rules off PFF. 
If a Mod should choose to delete this thread, please give me a reason for the action. Thanks.


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## speckledcroaker

Wirelessly posted

maintenance shop sounds more like the rip off shop


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## Deeplines

That's the new head with 10 hours on it?????


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## jaster

Wow, what a review. That is how it should be. Sortu for your experience but thank you for sharing


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## hsiF deR

That sucks. 

Why wait 1.5 years to complain? I would have lost my patience long ago.


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## Downtime2

Pretty sure the shop is out of business, and has been for a while I think.


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## coolbluestreak

hsiF deR said:


> That sucks. Why wait 1.5 years to complain? I would have lost my patience long ago.


My patience is lost. I don't like saying bad things about ppl and with the shop in a downward spiral I figured that my problem would take care of itself. Now with the previous shop owner poking his head around looking for business, I think it's time for me to say something.


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## Jason

Downtime2 said:


> Pretty sure the shop is out of business, and has been for a while I think.



Yessir....went by it the other day and noticed that too!


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## hsiF deR

coolbluestreak said:


> My patience is lost. I don't like saying bad things about ppl and with the shop in a downward spiral I figured that my problem would take care of itself. Now with the previous shop owner poking his head around looking for business, I think it's time for me to say something.


I understand. I admire your restraint.


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## MGuns

Wow what a nightmare!! Sounds like he was trying to milk you dry. It’s unfortunate that unscrupulous business people like that are out there but they are and you put your trust in a small business owner and get taken to the cleaners. You really need to do your homework nowadays. Did you ever get back with your dive buddy that recommended him?


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## skiff man99

almost appears he's switched to car repair now... Drive by the shop yesterday.. Lots full of vehicles with a few boats there still


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## BananaTom

skiff man99 said:


> almost appears he's switched to car repair now... Drive by the shop yesterday.. Lots full of vehicles with a few boats there still


The Maintenance Shoppe was originally a mobile service, operated out of a large trailer. 

As it grew, the location on Creighton was opened.

As it declined, the location on Creighton closed.

The operation, at that location now, is *NOT* associated with the Maintenance Shoppe.


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## coolbluestreak

skiff man99 said:


> almost appears he's switched to car repair now... Drive by the shop yesterday.. Lots full of vehicles with a few boats there still


No sir, that is a new owner. Very personable guy, talked to him for quite a while one day.


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## coolbluestreak

Deeplines said:


> That's the new head with 10 hours on it?????


That's the picture I took the day I went and picked up my boat.


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## Bravo87

That is impressively detailed and reported.


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## CallMeQuig

I dont think there are enough 4 letter words to describe this situation. Are you up and running now?


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## Dagwood

Gavin is a member on this forum so maybe he can present his side of this.


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## coolbluestreak

CallMeQuig said:


> Are you up and running now?


No sir, after spending $5500 for a blown motor and some parts. My boat funds had run dry. I unbolted the engine and sold the boat to help recover cost.


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## Getsome

I do know Gavin had some major health issues at on time. Not sure if there's any correlation to the OP's problems. I think that's what shut him down.


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## coolbluestreak

I don't know if health issues is a excuse to treat anyone or their boat like a trash can or a expense account!


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## Getsome

coolbluestreak said:


> I don't know if health issues is a excuse to treat anyone or their boat like a trash can or a expense account!


For the record, I'm not defending anyone. Just stating what I heard. I'm sorry for your loss.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe

WOW!!! If nobody can tell, Jeremy is not happy with me!!
First and foremost, this motor is the worst condition I have ever seen. This motor was so bad I started making videos of the issues I came across. Below you will see the videos.

The customer requested the carburetors to be rebuilt. They leaked but they were not the cause of the engine not starting. If the carburetors were the problem the engine would have been out of my shop in a week.

Rebuilt carburetors at customers request, inspected reeds in the process. While rebuilding the carburetors we found 1 carburetor idle mixture screw seized and one broken of inside the carburetor.

Replaced the fuel pump that was bad on the engine block. Removed the automotive fuel pump in hull that was incorrect and repaired fuel system.
Replaced fuel filter.

The top main bearing housing stripped and wore out the mounting bolt holes of the top main bearing and broke 1 bolt leaving crankshaft and flywheel to flopping around impacting and damaging timer base, flywheel, stator, main bearings and rod bearings. It was found that the previous owner had attempted to repair by gluing the top main bearing housing assembly and mounting bolts back in place with gasket sealer, band aiding and hiding this disasterous problem. I believe most shops would have stopped at this point and declared the engine block was totaled. I believed I could fix it. To repair the problem required tapping and helicoiling the damaged mounting bolt holes without dropping metal shavings into the engine, this is surgery.
Replaced timer base and stator that was damaged by flywheel.

Timing on the engine was reading 60’ after top dead center with new timer base and stator. The timing should be 6 or 8 degrees before top dead center. This was the cause of the engine not starting or running. Originally I believed that the power pack could be causing this and I informed Jeremy. Jeremy brought me a used power pack that belonged to his friend and asked that I try it. Before I could install and test the power pack he stated he needed it back and came and picked it up, his friend needed it back. If I had the power pack to diagnose it, I would have known the problem sooner. I believed it was the powerpack and I WAS WRONG. I did not notice an indicator slot on the flywheel center magnet had rotated. The timing deviation was caused by a timing magnet ring on the center of the flywheel. This ring was being hit by the timer base when the engine was running. This ring moved and seized itself back onto the flywheel. The flywheel is NO LONGER AVAILABLE. You can’t cut a magnet, move and glue it back together and it work. You can’t take a hammer to a magnet to knock it loose or to get it to move. You can’t take a torch to it to get it to move, it will demagnetize it. I can’t tell you how many hours I spent trying to rotate this magnet seized to a shaft. I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED WORKING ON THE ENGINE AT THIS POINT.

After weeks of trying to get this magnet to move, I finally succeeded and got it removed and epoxied back in its correct location. 
We reassembled the motor , we got the engine started in a test tank and finally could adjust the ignition timing at base and total timing specifications and adjust 4 of the 6 carburetors.

Installed thermostats, we found them missing once the engine was running and found cold.

I had Jeremy meet me at the water to verify that it was repaired. We ran the boat and it ran well. The only issue was the engine could turn 6,400 rpm. This means the prop needs to have about 5” of pitch to bring it down to around 5,400rpm and a great deal of speed. We were running the engine with the engine cowl and carburetor airbox off to verify the carburetors were functioning properly. We verified the carburetors were doing their job. On the way back to the dock we began to notice 1 carburetor having reversion, that is it’s spitting fuel back out of the face of the carburetor. Jeremy saw and recognized the problem himself. This problem was being caused by a reed failing. The boat had to go back to the shop.

We ordered Boyseson reeds. We took apart the front of the motor and removed the reed cages to replace all reeds. Upon disassembly we noticed a couple of the reed cages rubber sealing surfaces cracked and rubber missing. We ordered a couple of reed cages and reassembled the front of the motor.

We tank tested the engine, it runs great, time to take it back to the water. We put the boat in the water and run it about an hour, everything is great. Idles great, starts great, runs great. After an hour of running we notice a small vibration it only happens a couple seconds at a time every minute or so, no funny noises, the carbs and reeds are doing their job we decide to go back to the dock. On the way back to the dock, Pop now there is fuel spitting back out of the carb of the number one cylinder, NOT GOOD. We get towed back to the dock back and go to the shop.

We diagnose the number one cylinder has detonated. This COULD have been caused by fuel starvation, old fuel, or by too much ignition timing. The timing had been properly set, both base and total timing and we visibly verified the carburetor was functioning while we were running.

I had to call Jeremy and give him the bad news.

We had the powerhead rebuilt by a local reputable shop that we have used 12 years and never had an issue. We reinstalled the powerhead and reassembled the engine. We opened up the number one and number three carburetor and cleaned them again. They were clean and they looked good. We swapped the number one and number three carburetor. We ran the engine in a test tank IN GEAR AND UNDERLOAD. We verified the carburetors were functioning properly. We checked the ignition timing on EVERY cylinder by making making TDC marks on the flywheel for every cylinder. We did a cylinder drop test on each cylinder and all cylinders were doing their job. The engine ran great 4+ hours in 1,500 gallon test tank IN GEAR UNDERLOAD. We informed Jeremy the only thing we were concerned about was fuel. There was old and new fuel in the tank. We told him we were draining the tank and running on new fuel only. 

We informed him we were going to take it to the water and break it in personally. Of to the water we go. We ran the engine for six+ hours verifying carb function. The engine ran great. Suddenly the intermittent vibration is back, you can barely feel the vibration in the hull, it lasts only a couple of seconds every minute or so. We can see the carburetors are doing their job, no reversion or fuel problems seen. We throttle back and start heading back in. BANG engine stops!!! Engine still turns over but, we aren’t going to try to run it. We get towed back in. 

I call Jeremy and tell him this very bad news, I have no answers for him.

I pull the cylinder head and the piston has melted from detonation. The fuel system is clean, the head tempuratures are good. Timing was correct…. I need to know WHY this happened. This is NOT a failure caused from the engine rebuild. I hook up a timing light and spark tester. I turn the engine over with the starter, no head on. I find on the number one cylinder the timing is jumping 10 to 20 degrees on the number one cylinder ONLY. Why hasn’t this been seen before??? All ignition components are new except for the powerpack!!! When we check the ignition timing we ALWAYS check from the number one cylinder. The timing has now been tested numerous times.

The ignition timing jumping and over advancing 10-20 degrees caused this powerhead failure not once but probably twice. The only ignition component that could cause this is the powerpack, the only ignition component not replaced in the damaged ignition system. The only time it occurred was after long periods of running. This powerpack tested good on several occasions, verified by checking the ignition timing. I can only deduct that this problem was occuring once the engine and powerpack got hot and ran a long period of time.

The powerhead did not fail from poor workmanship from the rebuild process. The engine did not fail from an internal failure that was caused from failed internal parts. This is not a warranty issue from the powerhead rebuilder.

I repaired the fuel system and verified proper function. I repaired the ignition system, I verified and tested the repair. I CANNOT tell you when the power pack failed exactly. I can only say that it did fail and cause the damage to the engine. I am not liable for a component that tested good, that I did not sell as new to you.

IAM SORRY THAT THIS OCCURRED, I WISH I HAD JUST SOLD YOU A NEW POWERPACK , EVEN THOUGH IT WAS TESTED SEVERAL TIMES AND PASSED. IT SUCKS AND ****I AM SORRY IT HAPPENED TO YOU!!!!***** 

Please read second post of this it is too long for one post...

This is Jeremy's engine.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe

The front half of the engine block has a hole in it and I was afraid to just have a weld repair done. The part is no longer available. I could not locate the part. I can’t rebuild the engine without the part.

I wanted to make this right. I was not responsible for this failure, but I definitely do feel bad for Jeremy, and wanted to rebuild the powerhead for him FOR A SECOND TIME. I NEEDED THE FRONT HALF OF THE CRANKCASE AND COULD NOT FIND IT.

CHAPTER 2 PERSONAL PROBLEMS!!!
In August of 2012 I started to develop health issues. I was admitted to the E.R. six times between August and December. A couple of times they wanted to keep me for observation . Well with OBMACARE law taking effect my insurance does not cover hospitalization for observation. I refused to be admitted. In 2013 I was hospitalized 27 times, many times unconscious by ambulance ending up in intensive care. I am still ill, I am filing for disabilty and will probably never be able to work full time for the rest of my life!!!

Chapter 3 MY BUSINESS CLOSING!!!
While being sick my phone went unanswered. Then I turned my phone over to my only employee. I entrusted my business to him. I was home in bed. I could not function. Finding someone to replace me while I was dealing with my personal issues, was not good. I probably was able to get into my shoppe 12 times in the last six months. I closed my business, very shortly after Jeremy picking up his boat, in December 2013. 

For what it is worth Jeremy, I AM SORRY FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOU SUFFERED THROUGH. I WISH YOUR BOATING EXPERIENCE HAD GONE BETTER, I WISH I WAS ABLE BETTER TO HELP YOU THROUGH THIS DISMAL SITUATION THAT OCCURED. I WISH YOU ONLY THE BEST. 

One final note and it is not an excuse, when you or anyone else go to purchase a boat, GET A PREPURCHASE INSPECTION!!! If I had seen this boat before it was bought, it never would have been bought!!!

This is Jeremy's engine











As for the vhf antenna, I was not aware that it was broken, I may have left it up after being towed back to the dock. I was pretty upset and it was night. I am sorry.
As for an empty pack of cigarettes in the boat, most likely true after 8 hours on the boat and being towed
The ignition switch being loose from the dash, it spun in its mounting hole while out on the water. I had to hold it in my hand to start it.
Why the anchor rope was pulled out and rope was run to cleats was there was no rope on the boat to tie off to the dock with.
You forgot to mention the rollers that fell off the trailer at the boat launch.


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## jaster

Just more of a reason to spend $$$$$ amd buy new with a new warranty!!!!!!!


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## coolbluestreak

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> WOW!!! If nobody can tell, Jeremy is not happy with me!!
> First and foremost, this motor is the worst condition I have ever seen.
> I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED WORKING ON THE ENGINE AT THIS POINT.But you didn't, you continued to work and take my money.
> 
> Yes I did bring you a power pack that belonged to a buddy, but after a few days he wanted it back, I couldn't allow you to keep it for the whole year and a half
> 
> Before I ever meat you on the water you had already blown up the original engine/powerhead/boat motor that I brought you.
> I had Jeremy meet me at the water to verify that it was repaired. We ran the boat and it ran well. The only issue was the engine could turn 6,400 this means the prop needs to have about 5” of pitch to bring it down to around 5,400rpm and a great deal of speed. We were running the engine with the engine cowl and carburetor airbox off to verify the carburetors were functioning properly. We verified the carburetors were doing their job. On the way back to the dock we began to notice 1 carburetor having reversion, that is it’s spitting fuel back out of the face of the carburetor. Jeremy saw and recognized the problem himself. you never said a word about this problem even though I was watching you watch the carbs squirt fuel out the front and never said anything to me until I pointed out the problem.This problem was being caused by a reed failing. The boat had to go back to the shop.I told you to replace all the reeds
> 
> We ordered Boyseson reeds. We took apart the front of the motor and removed the reed cages to replace all reeds. Upon disassembly we noticed a couple of the reed cages rubber sealing surfaces cracked and rubber missing. We ordered a couple of reed cages and reassembled the front of the motor.
> 
> We tank tested the engine, it runs great, time to take it back to the water. We put the boat in the water and run it about an hour, everything is great. Idles great, starts great, runs great. After an hour of running we notice a small vibrationI never heard this before? it only happens a couple seconds at a time every minute or so, no funny noises, the carbs and reeds are doing their job we decide to go back to the dock. What, you told me in a voicemail that I still have that"the boat ran great but it was getting dark and you and your girlfriend needed to get back to your bayou quickly.On the way back to the dock, Pop now there is fuel spitting back out of the carb of the number one cylinder, NOT GOOD. We get towed back to the dock back and go to the shop.I missed your call because I was pulling a x-mas float in a parade
> 
> We diagnose the number one cylinder has detonated. This COULD have been caused by fuel starvation, old fuel(How could it be "old" fuel, you already pumped out my $500 of old fuel?), or by too much ignition timing. The timing had been properly set, both base and total timing and we visibly verified the carburetor was functioning while we were running.
> 
> I had to call Jeremy and give him the bad news.I had asked you several times at this point to have the prop re-pitched, why wasn't this done?
> 
> We had the powerhead rebuilt by a local reputable shopIt was rebuilt twice by this time, there was no 3rd time.that we have used 12 years and never had an issue. We reinstalled the powerhead and reassembled the engine. We opened up the number one and number three carburetor and cleaned them again. They were clean and they looked good. We swapped the number one and number three carburetor. We ran the engine in a test tank IN GEAR AND UNDERLOAD. We verified the carburetors were functioning properly. We checked the ignition timing on EVERY cylinder by making making TDC marks on the flywheel for every cylinder. We did a cylinder drop test on each cylinder and all cylinders were doing their job. The engine ran great 4+ hours in 1,500 gallon test tank IN GEAR UNDERLOAD. We informed Jeremy the only thing we were concerned about was fuel. There was old and new fuel in the tank. We told him we were draining the tank and running on new fuel only.
> 
> We informed him we were going to take it to the water and break it in personally. Of to the water we go. We ran the engine for six+ hours verifying carb function. The engine ran great. Suddenly the intermittent vibration is back, you can barely feel the vibration in the hull, it lasts only a couple of seconds every minute or so. We can see the carburetors are doing their job, no reversion or fuel problems seen. We throttle back and start heading back in. BANG engine stops!!! Engine still turns over but, we aren’t going to try to run it. We get towed back in.
> 
> I call Jeremy and tell him this very bad news, I have no answers for him.
> 
> I pull the cylinder head and the piston has melted from detonation. The fuel system is clean, the head temperatures are good. Timing was correct…. I need to know WHY this happened. This is NOT a failure caused from the engine rebuild. I hook up a timing light and spark tester. I turn the engine over with the starter, no head on. I find on the number one cylinder the timing is jumping 10 to 20 degrees on the number one cylinder ONLY. Why hasn’t this been seen before??? All ignition components are new except for the powerpack!!! When we check the ignition timing we ALWAYS check from the number one cylinder. The timing has now been tested numerous times.
> 
> The ignition timing jumping and over advancing 10-20 degrees caused this powerhead failure not once but probably twice. The only ignition component that could cause this is the powerpack, the only ignition component not replaced in the damaged ignition system. The only time it occurred was after long periods of running. This powerpack tested good on several occasions, verified by checking the ignition timing. I can only deduct that this problem was occurring once the engine and powerpack got hot and ran a long period of time.
> 
> The powerhead did not fail from poor workmanship from the rebuild process. The engine did not fail from an internal failure that was caused from failed internal parts. This is not a warranty issue from the powerhead rebuilder.
> 
> I repaired the fuel system and verified proper function. I repaired the ignition system, I verified and tested the repair. I CANNOT tell you when the power pack failed exactly. I can only say that it did fail and cause the damage to the engine. I am not liable for a component that tested good, that I did not sell as new to you.
> 
> IAM SORRY THAT THIS OCCURRED, I WISH I HAD JUST SOLD YOU A NEW POWERPACK , EVEN THOUGH IT WAS TESTED SEVERAL TIMES AND PASSED. IT SUCKS AND ****I AM SORRY IT HAPPENED TO YOU!!!!*****
> 
> If you are really sorry? I still have the engine, you can give me something for my money and we can make this thread go away...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Maintenance Shoppe said:
> 
> 
> 
> The front half of the engine block has a hole in it and I was afraid to just have a weld repair done. The part is no longer available. I could not locate the part. I can’t rebuild the engine without the part.
> 
> I wanted to make this right. I was not responsible for this failureReally, then why did you tell me that this was covered by you warranty?, but I definitely do feel bad for Jeremy, and wanted to rebuild the powerhead for him FOR A SECOND TIME. I NEEDED THE FRONT HALF OF THE CRANKCASE AND COULD NOT FIND IT.What really??? I can find it for you today???
> 
> CHAPTER 2 PERSONAL PROBLEMS!!!
> this may sound cold, but this is not my problem
> 
> 
> Chapter 3 MY BUSINESS CLOSING!!
> This may sound cold, but this is not my problem either.
> For what it is worth Jeremy, I AM SORRY FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOU SUFFERED THROUGH. I WISH YOUR BOATING EXPERIENCE HAD GONE BETTER, I WISH I WAS ABLE BETTER TO HELP YOU THROUGH THIS DISMAL SITUATION THAT OCCURED. I WISH YOU ONLY THE BEST.
> 
> One final note and it is not an excuse, when you or anyone else go to purchase a boat, GET A PREPURCHASE INSPECTION!!! If I had seen this boat before it was bought, it never would have been bought!!!
> 
> This is Jeremy's engine
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMBS6jmi6yE
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WemiRF_Juk
> 
> As for the vhf antenna, I was not aware that it was broken, I may have left it up after being towed back to the dock. I was pretty upset and it was night. I am sorry. Guess that makes it my problem?
> As for an empty pack of cigarettes in the boat, most likely true after 8 hours on the boat and being towed
> The ignition switch being loose from the dash, it spun in its mounting hole while out on the water. I had to hold it in my hand to start it. it wasn't like that when I dropped it off
> Why the anchor rope was pulled out and rope was run to cleats was there was no rope on the boat to tie off to the dock with. It wasn't like that when I dropped it off
> You forgot to mention the rollers that fell off the trailer at the boat launch.Guess you forgot to mention that more of my equipment was torn up while in your possession?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying that my boat was in perfect condition and the engine was in new condition, but if I cannot take a boat motor repair shop that fixes boat motor problems, where should I take my boat motor?
> For $5500 and still no results, I cannot afford to ask this question again?
Click to expand...


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## coolbluestreak

jaster said:


> Just more of a reason to spend $$$$$ amd buy new with a new warranty!!!!!!!


I spent the $$$$$ for a new rebuild, little did I know that no one would stand behind the warranty.


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## jaw jacker jr

I've seen that issue with a powerpack on a four cylinder Johnson before.. Had extremely high timing on number three cylinder which burnt the piston up just like that one. :/


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## The Maintenance Shoppe

Quote
"I am not saying that my boat was in perfect condition and the engine was in new condition, but if I cannot take a boat motor repair shop that fixes boat motor problems, where should I take my boat motor?
For $5500 and still no results, I cannot afford to ask this question again?"

Get a Prepurchase inspection!!!
No marine mechanic would ever have allowed you to buy the boat.

Quote" What do I know? Well, I've been a FAA certified aircraft mechanic for over 10 years. I've built homes, remodeled, rebuilt car engines, truck engines, single cylinder dirt bike engines, triple cylinder snowmobile engines, radial aircraft engines and even turbine engines. Installing aftermarket superchargers and turbos is what I call fun but, a outboard motor I know very little about."

What you don't know is boat engines, that is why you pay someone that does know.

Think about it. This engine was so bad I made this video never expecting to have to post it to respond to you.


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## John B.

Imo, at the point of it's going to be 5k to fix, why didn't you suggest buying a new motor... i mean a used 95 johnson can be had for about half that.


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## Catchin Hell

Hindsight is 20/20 most of the time. No dog in this fight, but with all of the initial problems that were identified right off the bat, I believe I would've suggested Op sell that one as a parts motor and find a good dependable used one to replace it.


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## coolbluestreak

The Maintenance Shoppe said:


> Get a Prepurchase inspection!!! No marine mechanic would ever have allowed you to buy the boat.
> 
> What you don't know is boat engines, that is why you pay someone that does know. Think about it.


I purchased a boat with a engine issues, I've figured that much out by now. 

If I don't know boat engines, who would you suggest that I take my boat to for engine maintenance?


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## BananaTom

This is a good example why one should follow the "Boat Purchase Rules"

1. Sea Trial
2. Out of Water Survey
3. Mechanic Inspection

It is sad that this occurred, but it is a boat.


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## Wharf Rat

Let's be honest, what do you expect when you buy a 1995 boat and engine?


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## coolbluestreak

Wharf Rat said:


> Let's be honest, what do you expect when you buy a 1995 boat and engine?


There are lots of people that run engines from the mid 90's and prior, not everyone has money for a new boat. I was willing to spend less on the boat and more for fuel. Would it make a difference if I was the original owner and this happened, I don't think so?


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## Wharf Rat

coolbluestreak said:


> There are lots of people that run engines from the mid 90's and prior, not everyone has money for a new boat. I was willing to spend less on the boat and more for fuel. Would it make a difference if I was the original owner and this happened, I don't think so?


If you were the original owner, you would have likely given up much earlier and sucked it up and bought a new or at least less-used motor....and I would say you would have gotten your money's worth out of that motor. So yes, it would be different.

I'm not saying your situation doesn't suck, it does...but I would be more pissed at the guy that sold me a motor that he likely knew was on the fritz.

I would have cut my losses on that motor much earlier than you did. I had the exact same thing happen to me. I bought a 1998 Scout with an older Johnson on it and it never ran properly for me once. I took it to a shop and spent around $1k on it only to have the same issue still existing. I quickly realized it was about to turn into a never ending money bucket, so I sold it for parts and bought a new motor. You could have picked up a decent used 4 stroke for what you are saying you put into that one.


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## The Maintenance Shoppe

coolbluestreak said:


> I purchased a boat with a engine issues, I've figured that much out by now.
> 
> If I don't know boat engines, who would you suggest that I take my boat to for engine maintenance?


You can use Shane Livingston, 
Will's Marine for Johnson, Evinrude
Posner Marine for Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, Tohatsu
Harborwiew Marine for Mercury.


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## Getsome

Based on what the Maintenance Shop documented, it sound like the guy who sold it to you was covering up and hiding multiple problems.


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## coolbluestreak

Getsome said:


> it sound like the guy who sold it to you was covering up and hiding multiple problems.


Irrelevant point really, it happens every day.


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## KingCrab

Seems it happened to you. Cant make chicken salad out of chicken crap. B_O_A_T Break out another thou, A hole in the water that u pour money into. Oh & its a 95 model. I call this one a split.


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## coolbluestreak

KingCrab said:


> Cant make chicken salad out of chicken crap..


Yeah, but when Rachel Ray is telling you that she'll give you chicken salad, you tend to believe her because she is a chef and that when she does everyday. 


Guys, I'm not saying that TMS cannot fix boats because I would be lying. The fact is, I paid for a boat repair that I didn't get, I would have spent the money on a powerpack or anything else if the mechanic said that I needed one. Shoot, like he said " we replaced everything else". The fact is he stopped working on my boat, stopped answering my phone calls, wouldn't return my voicemails or communicate with me in any way. 

My powerhead was sitting on a hand cart in the corner of the shop and the rest of the parts were in a 5gal bucket when I went to pick it up because he nor his employee would work on my boat. 

My boat was in worse shape after 1.5yrs and $5500 than when I dropped it off. 
That's the point I'm trying to make and that I think some people are missing. It has nothing to do with the condition, hp or year of engine.


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## Pomponius Maximus

*Fix*

I would have taken a 16 pound sledge hammer and knocked that motor smooth off the transom.............
then install new 225 hp Evinrude Etec.......Trim it High and Let it Fly .....:thumbsup:


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## pm80

I can say I had a similar situation with The maintenance shoppe also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KingCrab

Not knowing either side. I'm a mechanic. I get old cars / trucks in my shop all the time. They love the car or truck. They want to drive / fix it. I tell them for every bolt I turn,, It could change cost . U don't know whats behind door # 3,4, or 12. Its a guess as to how bad or what all actually can be wrong. Could be very little. Could be in unbelievable condition . Old engines,, 99.9 percent of the times, Wore out. Its a time verses money thing. Come up with a cap on what its all worth to u & discuss that before work is started. Never spend more than something is worth unless its sentimental to u or your rich & don't care. If your not, Do things as money allows. You may have done it this way. I don't know. But usually most persons that understand repairs verses cost & whats it's worth get things done without much complaints or problems. They know where it may end up. Whats the most one would spend on an old engine? Me, half or less the price of a new one. Sometimes it's a gamble. JMHO


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## WhyMe

Is this the end of the problem, or will this story going to continue ?
Its always hard to find the things you want at a fair and honest price.
I hope that both parties can resolve this issue, if you can't one party has the right to take it to court.
Whyme 
Mako My Dayo


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