# Personal Fuel Study Ethanol/MTBE



## jigmaster (Oct 27, 2007)

I have been doing an independent Fuel Study for about a year now on my own dime spending over $300 which I will never get back but knowledge and piece of mind it is worth it. Unfortunately as of this writing there is nothing on the market that will Stabilize E-10 ethanol or reverse separation. Forget all of the Snake Oils claiming to do something they cant Marine Stabil included >Yes it also contains Ethanol masked under a different name which also exacerbates the Ethanol issue. If you have read something somewhere recommending and you feel confident it will work then use it. I will tell you 100% without a doubt all of it is a waste of money. There is nothing out there that guards against Ethanol effects- whether separation,absorbing water, degrading to a lower octane and corrosion. Most of these products in fact increase corrosion problems. Using a 10 micron or better Fuel water separator is an excellent option however you need to change it every 25hrs of use. That is only to the filter> though From your filter to the engine to the carb and combustion chamber other issues can arise. Marvel Mystry oil, is not marketed claiming to be the fix all or Ethanol Treatment. What it does is acts as an additional lubricant while decarbonizing your engine. You are running a Two Stroke it depends on lubrication for survival. We now use Ethanol fuel ....Ethanol or alchohal dries and evaporates/Dry is our enemy in Two strokes. Oil doesn't flow up hill, thats why 9 times out of 10 the Top Cylinder/Crank Seal/Bearings.Rings fail first. Now factor you make the situation worse buy opening up your wallet plunking down $10-$15 bucks for that bottle of false hope, all because it was a good product when we used MTBE fuel well that was then and this is Ethanol. These products all contain more ethanol and don't do what they claim while increasing corrosion not to mention more than likely break down more particles to clog your system further. If anything was that effective it would destroy or damage your engine in the process. So whether you use whatever because billy Bob uses it and he says its great or your Mechanic Said so or you like the pretty bottle it comes in or maybe it has a nice fragrant odor! By all means it's your engine.

Just say no to Snake oils!!!! They don't work. I don't use them, I own them all, and if they did- I would use them. I have tested them under every condition in every season with 5 different fuel blends. 

*Note through every test I have completed Synthetic Oils over Conventional, Two stoke oil's blended easier and were more stable without separation over 35 days longer over the conventional all the while not suffering as much corrosion after 60 days. E-rude XD 50 edged Merc and Yamalube which were virtually the same. Which showed separation 20-25 days over the Dyno. I would not use conventional oil's with Ethanol Gas. It breaks down more rapidly and is more caustic. Some fuels created a white crust and some a brown ash. Separation and corrosion levels were higher with Higher Octain's across the board so I would stick with regular. I used a spare mower to conduct engine operation tests. The Carb had to be cleaned twice during this test. 

*Note Tests with MTBE fuel were very close with minimal separation either with conventional or Synthetic blends over a 6month period, also findings were near 0 corrosion, but there was more of a Varnish residue which i'm not sure how that would effect long term operation, however it still showed excellent flashpoint.
Separation were relatively the same with all octanes across the board. The MTBE test studies were conducted 1st. carb did not require cleaning
during this phase and started on all test fuels within 4 pulls even after 6 months. 

* Additive tests were conducted with and without Two stroke oils having more noticeable issues with e-10 along with higher octanes regardless of brand.
most additives had little effect on preventing separation within e-10 . However there were higher incidents of corrosion with the e-10 and additives.
Additives mixed with MTBE showed minimal corrosion But I did see reduced varnish. 

* Conclusion E-10 fuels are more stable without additives but show more stability with Synthetic two stroke oil's
* Conclusion MTBE fuels showed more stability using most additives. However when mixed with Dyno or Synthetic there was no noticeable difference.

Disclaimer: This was my personal fuel study conducted in a controlled environment and assume no responsibility or liability.

You can pick your Poison or DON'T WASTE your Money. 

Best ethanol defenses you can do that actually work. The best option is to switch over to MTBE fuel from the marina you will need to run your existing ethanol down to almost empty before switching back.If you cant or don't want to> Use or start your Boat weekly,Close your vent cap on your tank when not using, Place a cotton sock over your Tank Cap/Vent when using, it acts as a moisture filter.Go to a 10 micron or better filter water separator,Buy fuel from a busy Gas station,If the tanker is dropping fuel go to the next one,Replace all Fuel lines Hoses every 3 years,Use a quality TCW3 2stroke oil, de-carb every year,use extra lubricant. I like Marvel Mystry oil, its a lighter viscosity and stays mixed nicely in the fuel using this you can also forgo the annual de-carb, it is an excellent de-carb/ carb cleaning agent @2oz. per gallon. Or you could add a little extra Two stroke Oil to your tank wither you have an oil Injector or not. I would not go over more than 1oz. per gallon on the extra Two stroke Oil. Both have built in corrosion inhibitors that actually work.

The best advise is to not put E-10 into a Carbuerated or Two Stroke outboard. While the newer EFI 4 stroke can handle the ethanol better i would suggest MTBE 
By the way this stuff wreaks havoc on Inboard manifolds and risors.

This Ethanol is some nasty stuff guy's/Gal's it's a damn shame or Govt. stuck it to us and there is nothing we can do!

I could not find Comprehensive tests or studies Publicly or private so I conducted my own if there is a product out there and you would like to test it please let me know.


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## 69Viking (Oct 30, 2008)

Good information. I've never added any additives to my Suzuki 4-Stroke engine and haven't had any problems going on 4 years now of running E-10 I get from the busy Tom Thumbs near my house. I will occasionally run MTBE as you call it from the Marina's but that is very rare due to cost. I have over 2 years left on the engine warranty so we'll see how it goes, so far so good.


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## Johnms (Nov 29, 2010)

*Seafoam*

Awesome post. Did you test Seafoam? I like to add a can about every 2 tanks. It is also what I use to "de-carb".


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## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

Wirelessly posted

I have a year old 150 e tec with 200 hrs on it. Never used any additives with e10 gas. I keep my tank topped off after every use. My fill and vent are sealed so no moisture can get in. The vent hose has a dip in it so when topped off traps fuel in the dip and seals it from the atmosphere. I have never had a water problem with this engine or the other four carbed engines ive had on this boat.


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## lightchop (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a 2005 E-TEC 225. My water separator has a bowl on the bottom that I drain at least every two months. I have never seen any water in the released fuel from the separator. I have been keeping the least amount of fuel in my 100 gallon tank as possible and have been using Sta-bil Ethanol treatment in fuel as recommended by a marine tech.

You fellas seem better versed on these ethonal issues than I am. I have a couple of questions just for clarification. 

1)Just to be sure, did your study conclude that the use of Sta-bil was more damaging to the motor and it is a waste of money?

2)Should I seal the air port on the side of my boat while it sits between fishing runs to ensure less water in fuel?

3)Is the consensus that you should keep your fuel tank full or keep just enough to make a fishing trip?

Thanks for the help


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## jigmaster (Oct 27, 2007)

lightchop said:


> I have a 2005 E-TEC 225. My water separator has a bowl on the bottom that I drain at least every two months. I have never seen any water in the released fuel from the separator. I have been keeping the least amount of fuel in my 100 gallon tank as possible and have been using Sta-bil Ethanol treatment in fuel as recommended by a marine tech.
> 
> You fellas seem better versed on these ethonal issues than I am. I have a couple of questions just for clarification.
> 
> ...



I would not use Stabil unless you burn it right away which contains Alcohol.
Stabil does not work for E-10 nothing does!

Put a filter over your Vent.


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## jigmaster (Oct 27, 2007)

*Seafoam*

Contains 10% Alcohol compounding Issues.


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## jigmaster (Oct 27, 2007)

****Warning****

Nothing works guys its crap. If you ad something to it it wont change it from Crap!!!

Hopefully they will stop the cash cow ethanol subsidies this year.


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## jigmaster (Oct 27, 2007)

*2012*



jigmaster said:


> Nothing works guys its crap. If you ad something to it it wont change it from Crap!!!
> 
> Hopefully they will stop the cash cow ethanol subsidies this year.


Is supposed to be it!!! We will see.


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## oldflathead (Oct 3, 2007)

*Thanks for your work*

Jigmaster,

You did an excellent report. I appreciate your effort.
I agree 100%. I don't use the ethanol fuel in my 1999 Chevy truck, nor any of my outboards, (2 or 4 stroke), lawn mower, pressure washer, pumps, etc. Last year my wife and I drove back to California towing our 22' travel trailer behind my '99 Chevy van. I kept close track of fuel type and consumption. With 100% gas I got over 16% better mileage.

I get all of my gas from the Parade station on New Warrington Rd. & Jackson St. He has a sign "Marine Gas". The pump nearest New Warrington is 100% gas.

I also agree about using Marvel Mystery Oil,(MMO). It is not "snake oil", but does wonders for the old flat head engines I build. Most of these engines have been raw water cooled, thus run at lower temps, so sticky valves can be a problem. MMO in the fuel and oil reduces that problem. 

Keep up the good work.

Tom


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## jigmaster (Oct 27, 2007)

*No problem*

You are correct about having to use even more of the e-10 up to 20% more ethanol to go the same distance. Not to mention a noticeable loss is horse power. Also as tax payers the fed Govt. is paying a .50 cent per gallon subsidy. So you guessed it! It's hardly actually going green. In fact with e-10 we will go broke and broke down.

Not to mention Berkeley, conducted a study finding Ethanol was just as or more so damaging to the environment as MTBE.


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## T140 (Nov 20, 2007)

Outstanding post, confirmed what I thought.


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## 1pescadoloco (Dec 2, 2011)

Great job. Probably too late for my lawn equipment but the Yamaha on my new 2005 Pathfinder will never see ethanol as long as I can find gas without it. Local Yokel here I come


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## FlicPig (Jan 21, 2012)

Great post and report. With the information that you got from it, I'm pretty sure you just saved yourself hundreds, even thousands of dollars.

While we can personally save ourselves and our equipment if we don't use ethanol, I'm afraid we can't stop other people from using it. This is especially true in some states wherein pumps are not obliged to disclose that they're using ethanol. With ethanol's contribution to greenhouse gases (19% more than unleaded gasoline), your favorite fishing spot may be gone in a few years.

Source: alcohol fuel


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## TONER (Mar 25, 2008)

what about starbrite enzyme I just saw it at walmart it sounds good did you test it thanks


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## pueblowestdude (Jan 26, 2012)

Here in the state of colorado, there are no gas stations with pure gas that I know of. Even our marina got it's last batch of pure gas. So is it ok run fuel from airport which is called 100LL? I have run it in everything from motorcycles to lawn mowers and string trimmers and yes my boats 1997 johnson 60hp 2stroke and Suzuki 90hp 2001. It has a very distinct smell from the exhaust. The only problem with the AV gas 100LL is going to get it from the airport and it is pricey. The only other option for nonethonal is race fuel which costs even more and closer to 110 octane. If I remember right the av gas is 4.50$gal.


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## 1pescadoloco (Dec 2, 2011)

We tried av gas & racing fuel in our two stroke racing karts many, many moons ago. It would leave lead ball deposits on the plug & foul them out. I'm not sure if they still put lead in those fuels. Most outboards & yard equipment are designed to run on 87 -89 octane. Running high octane fuels may do more harm than good.


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## pueblowestdude (Jan 26, 2012)

As soon as I tell the whole world there are no pure gas stations, I find one off the beaten path. I think you are right about the deposits on the plugs. The airplane engines spark plugs have what you describe on them. Evidently the benefits of lead on the overall engine out weigh periodic spark plug maintenance, at least with air cooled engines. Might be a bad idea with water cooled set up? I bet the higher octane runs cooler or something with the flame travel. Hopefully my new found supply stays around.


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## X-Shark (Oct 3, 2007)

> Hopefully my new found supply stays around.


So how much is it up there?


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## pueblowestdude (Jan 26, 2012)

10% ethanol regular is 2.85$ and nonethanol is about a 25cents higher. The avgas is 4.90$. Haven't been to the marina since november and want to say it is about 75cents more than regular. The water temp is what makes fishing difficult right now 33-37deg. What you have to hear to believe, is the singing of crackling ice from your boat wake when you pull up to the frozen section of the lake. It echoes off of the cliffs.


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