# Are sabiki's still legal?



## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

Does the new reef fish circle hookrule apply to sabiki's? We use the heavy dutysabiki's for catching trigger fish and other small fish for use as live baits around the wrecks, the way the new rule reads I think that is now illegal.


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## jamessig (Oct 3, 2007)

This law is going to be very difficult to enforce. As long as there are no other boats within a few miles of you, who's to say what gear you're fishing. If you were to do something illegal, you'd have to be pretty stupid to keep doing it when you noticed that another boat started running straight at you. It would take at least a few minutes before they arrived which would give plenty of time to remove any bait from your sabiki, stow it, and break out another rod rigged with circle hooks. This is all just hypothetical, of course.

Oh, and using "other small fish" that have size or bag limits is also illegal now.


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## countryjwh (Nov 20, 2007)

have they put a size limit on the endangered hardtail yet.


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## Salt Life (Sep 30, 2007)

Spoke to an FWC officer that gave a ticket to someone using strips from a sheepheads belly


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## bonita dan (Oct 3, 2007)

Not sure how that would work. The FWC was going to look into the use of non-stainless steel hooks for snapper fishing but I didn't hear them say anything definate about there use out in Panama City. Sabikis were primarily designed for bait fishing,not for catching snapper or trigger so theres no way it would hold up in court against ya. Then again I never did win any of my court cases:doh


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## whipper snapper (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, the proposed rule will go into effect april 1, the new hardtail regulations are as follows: 

Bag limit of 4 per person

min. length5" 

max. length6" with 1 fish over slot.


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## TOBO (Oct 3, 2007)

Those are some damn funny hardtail post! Not to derail, sorry.


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

It's not derailing, it's only highlighting how stupid the fisheries management laws are becoming.

I'm thinking the circle hook rule is going to be enforced about as hard as the treble hook laws are pushed inshore. Have any of y'all ever had an FWC officer check to see if you are fishing with treble hooks and live bait inshore? I know I have not ever had one check my hooks.


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## Just One Fish (Sep 28, 2007)

I hear alot of people on this board complaining when someone keeps an oversize red fish but I alos here alot of ya talking about geting around other rules... dumb or not its the rule. follow them or not I dont care just stay one one side not both follow the rules or dont....

sorry ive been known to bend a few rules but I also dont chastize someone for bending other rules.

sorry if I upset anyone

its just how I feel


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't brake any rules, but I do openly deplore rules that I think are stupid.

The regulations pertaining to redfish make since because they are a viable candidate for catch and release. Red snapper are not.


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

*The "non-stainless steel circle hook" is for all reef fish.*<P class=Body><P class=Body><P class=Body>The new rules also require fishers on all vessels in the Gulf reef fish fishery to possess and use certain gear, including non-stainless steel circle hooks that must be possessed aboard a vessel and used to harvest any Gulf reef fish when natural baits are used. A circle hook is a fishing hook designed and manufactured so that the point is turned perpendicularly back to the shank to form a generally circular or oval shape.<P class=Body>At least one dehooking device is required as well and must be used to remove hooks embedded in Gulf reef fish with minimum damage. The dehooking device must be constructed to allow the hook to be secured and the barb shielded without re-engaging during the removal process. It must be blunt and all edges rounded, and it must be of a size appropriate to secure the range of hook sizes and styles used in the Gulf reef fish fishery.<P class=Body>At least one venting tool is also required and must be used to deflate the swimbladders of Gulf reef fish to help release the fish with minimum damage. This tool must be a sharpened, hollow instrument, such as a hypodermic syringe with the plunger removed or a 16-gauge needle fixed to a hollow wooden dowel. A tool such as a knife or an ice-pick may not be used. The venting tool must be inserted into the fish at a 45-degree angle approximately 1 to 2 inches from the base of the pectoral fin and be inserted just deep enough to release the gases so that the fish may be released with minimum damage.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *Cnallick (2/13/2008)**The "non-stainless steel circle hook" is for all reef fish.*<P class=Body>At least one dehooking device is required as well and must be used to remove hooks embedded in Gulf reef fish with minimum damage. The dehooking device must be constructed to allow the hook to be secured and the barb shielded without re-engaging during the removal process. It must be blunt and all edges rounded, and it must be of a size appropriate to secure the range of hook sizes and styles used in the Gulf reef fish fishery.


<P class=Body>:banghead:banghead How do you shieldthe barb on the hook so as not let it re-engage in the removal process. Anyone out there have a picture of such a de-hooking device? I'm trying to picture such a device but can't.:banghead:banghead:banghead<P class=Body>Also how do you know when a reef fish is going to take the bait vrs a non reef fish.:banghead<P class=Body>http://www.dehooker4arc.com/instructions.cfm<P class=Body>


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

The only saltwater circle hooks that I know of that aren't made of stainless are like the ones from owners that are coated in that shiny crap that NEVER rusts. The only bronze circle hooks Iv'e ever seen were for bass fishing.

It sounds like they have madated we fish with hooks that aren't being manufactured and a dehooking device that theoretically may exist. I wonder if flipping sticks are going to be illegal? That would make deckhanding a bitch.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *P-cola_Native (2/13/2008)*The only saltwater circle hooks that I know of that aren't made of stainless are like the ones from owners that are coated in that shiny crap that NEVER rusts. The only bronze circle hooks Iv'e ever seen were for bass fishing.
> 
> It sounds like they have madated we fish with hooks that aren't being manufactured and a dehooking device that theoretically may exist. I wonder if flipping sticks are going to be illegal? That would make deckhanding a bitch.


Looks like the flipping stick and the Baker release I normally use are both not legal.


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## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

The Flippin' Stick is by far the quickest and least harmful way to release a fish (especially snapper) I have ever seen! Can someone please show me something better? If they outlaw these I really don't know what to use...


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

I ordered one of these yesterday just run across it on google. It has the de-hooking device and the needle all in one. dont know how wel it works though. There website is www.snappersaver.com<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The SnapperSaver combines a rugged, no-nonsense de-hooker and a safe, retractable hypodermic venting needle into a single easy-to-use tool. Durable, high-quality materials combined with cutting-edge ergonomic design result in a tool designed to absorb serious punishment in the harsh environment of salt-water fishing. If you've been looking for a tool that can get the hooks out of the "shorts," quickly, safely vent them, and get 'em back in the water, this is the tool for you.







<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">







<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">


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## J.Sharit (Oct 3, 2007)

Gosh I hope that comes with instrutions cause according to some ass hat who commented on rec fisherman in the PNJ 75% of us don't know how to vent a snapper. Not that we catch very many of them cause thier so few around anymoreoke


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## markw4321 (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm not a lawyer but I think "when natural baits are used." may be the key phrase in the new regulations. If I am fishing witha hair jig I don't need a circle hook. If I am fishing with a cigar minnow I do. 



I think the hardestquestion isabout two hook trigger fish rigs using squid not sabiki rigs. 



Mark W out


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm assuming two hook chicken rigs with J hooks are now illegal. The3/0 lazer sharp circles work on chicken rigs for mingos and triggers, but I'm not sure whether or not they're made of stainless.


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## m miles (Oct 1, 2007)

I hate to say it, but I might be fishing out of Alabama more this yr.


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *kanemano (2/14/2008)*Gosh I hope that comes with instrutions cause according to some ass hat who commented on rec fisherman in the PNJ 75% of us don't know how to vent a snapper. Not that we catch very many of them cause thier so few around anymoreoke


*Please don't throw the word "ASSHAT" around so freely. I'm the proud recipient of it*.:banghead:banghead:banghead


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## First Catch (Oct 1, 2007)

Where exactly are these regulations posted on the fwc site?


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## Tuna Man (Oct 2, 2007)

> *First Catch (2/16/2008)*Where exactly are these regulations posted on the fwc site?


http://www.myfwc.com/whatsnew/08/statewide/News_08_X_SnapperRegs.htm


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## Reel Fun (Oct 4, 2007)

This is the link where I found them http://myfwc.com/whatsnew/08/statewide/News_08_X_SnapperRegs.htm


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## First Catch (Oct 1, 2007)

All right, thanks for the links.


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## Sea-r-cy (Oct 3, 2007)

> *P-cola_Native (2/13/2008)*The only saltwater circle hooks that I know of that aren't made of stainless are like the ones from owners that are coated in that shiny crap that NEVER rusts. The only bronze circle hooks Iv'e ever seen were for bass fishing.


I'm not 100% that the circle hooks I use (Eagle Claw, Mustad) aren't stainless, but one use in saltwater, they are quite rusty if not cleaned. I do have some stainless J hooks, the box was marked as such, and they were quite expensive.

I wonder if the FWC is going to spend the bucks to prove if a given hook is stainless. Some stainless will stick to a magnet, some will not. What will be the test?

Is a circle hook that has been altered (made into a J hook) legal? Lots of anglers open circle hooks for a larger bite.

Sea-r-cy


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## mack_attack2 (Nov 24, 2007)

illegal or not, im still using sabikis to catch bait on a wreck and im still using stainless hooks wreck fishing


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## ChrisH2O (Oct 4, 2007)

Screw all of this BS...I'm going diving this year.


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## P-cola_Native (Feb 5, 2008)

I doubt that we will alter the tackle that we fish with at all. I usually use circle hooks for snapper and grouper, but a lot of peopledon't likecircle hooks and I doubt they will start using them. 

If you set the hook when you get a bite with J-hooksyou alsohook thefish in the corner of the mouth.


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## redfish99999 (Feb 11, 2008)

Re: Stainless Steel Hooks.....

Stainless steel is non-magnetic....... I went through my tackle box and the silver looking hooks, that I thought were stainless, were not.....

I found very few stainless hooks........


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## Reel Screamers (Jan 5, 2008)

Never thought of it before but I guess that sabiki rigs could be considered illegal unless you have a bandit gear license.

I would have to check it but going from memory, I believe that the feds consider any baited rig that contains more then two hooks on a line, "bandit gear". For that I also believe that you need a commercial license.

Again, don't shoot the me for this because I am going from memory but I guess I know what I will be reading tomorrow morning when I chase the wife out of the bathroom.


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## RUSTY (Oct 2, 2007)

At one of the Outcast Seminars there was a Florida Fish and Game Officer going over the rules. He stated that he is not going to search out a boat for circle hooks, but if there are reef fish in the box, or live or dead bait aboard there better be at least one rod with a circle hook rigged up. I asked him if needle nose pliars are considered a de-hooking device and he said yes they are. This was of course after I had already bought a ARC De-Hooker.


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## Drew Mixon (Oct 4, 2007)

dang. still so much advocating breaking the law. some things will never change, i guess.

the regulations are what they are. they cause some alterations to the way some folks currently fish. it am what it am. 

stainless (or austenitic) steel can have magnetic properties. but most alloys wont. if you put a magnet in a bag of various hooks, chances are you wont see too many stick. but, unless you are purchasing hooks that are specifically 'stainless', pretty sure you are getting an alloy. laser sharps are alloy, btw. even the coated high-end hooks are alloy or ferritic steel.

the 'hook out', as was presented by the FWC, there is interpretation in this reg. pretty much, if you have some sort of hook removal device, you are doing what you are supposed to. 

but, as for the sabiki, the normal and typical use of a sabiki is for bait fishing. the typcial bait fish is not listed by the NMFS or the FWC as 'reef fish'. unless you are purposefully attempting to catch mingos or triggers on a sabiki WITH natural bait, there should be no question. but, if you are, then by the letter of the law you are in violation--whether another boat is nearby or not. (the measure of one's character is what you do when no one is looking, not when they are).

if you bend the hook point back towards the shank (in a 'general circle or oval'), then you should be legal for pursuit of reef fish with this rig and natural bait.

but, um, we've been using circle hooks for triggers for years. when the bait stealing critters get a mouthful and attempt to swim away before being detected, as they often do, then they many times hook themselves. been working great for several years. Outcast does sell a small, thick wire circle hook that is easily tied into a 2 hook chicken rig.

cheers.

drew


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## gmoney (Oct 3, 2007)

I second the statement that circle hooks work great on triggers/mingos and all other small fish. I actually prefer using them with new people on the boat becuase its like cheating-no matter how unskilled you are as long as you can crank the handle and the fish are eating you will catch fish. The only problem with circle hooks for triggers is that the smaller hooks tend to be light-wire and get warped after a fish or two. Last year on the new florida girl(my boats still not running) i was using a two hook rig with light circles and caught a nice 10#Red Snapper. He twisted the hook into a figure eight, ruining the hook but i was in no danger of him ever getting off. It was funny watching the deckhand try to use the flipping stick dehooker on that fish) We both had a good laugh about it after we figured out what had happenedAlso had that happen on several nice size trigger fish. So you can use circle hooks effectively on triggers/mingos, just bring lots of replacements. If you are using sabikis for thier 'flash' try applying a bit of mylar material to the hook shank just below the eye of the hook, you can get it anywhere you get fly tying materials. If you dont want to take the time to tie it on you could probably get by using a little dab of superglue to hold it on.


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