# Red ribbon bait rings?



## a (Oct 2, 2007)

Rumor is these are now legal.....anyone heard any real news on this?


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## J0nesi (Jun 22, 2011)

i've seen people using these for a while now. if its legal or not i have no idea.


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## Bravo87 (Jun 19, 2014)

J0nesi said:


> i've seen people using these for a while now. if its legal or not i have no idea.


+1 and rather effective at that!


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## Wugitus (Oct 16, 2008)

*red ribbon*

When is the last time you were on a pier and had your gear checked for a red ribbon rig ???


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## goheel (Feb 3, 2011)

Saw people using them at Navarre pier. They're illegal? What can they do that a normal Sabiki rig couldn't?


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

goheel said:


> Saw people using them at Navarre pier. They're illegal? What can they do that a normal Sabiki rig couldn't?


not get tangled? - all I can come up with


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## Hopin4aboat (Jul 5, 2009)

Try'n Hard said:


> not get tangled? - all I can come up with


They work about a million times better than a sabiki for MY and sardines, it's a near guarantee when nothing else works.


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## MGuns (Dec 31, 2007)

Never heard of these before but think I’ll make one and give it a shot.


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## Buckyt (Oct 1, 2007)

We used them in the 60's from Pensacola pier and caught cigar minnows.


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## Try'n Hard (Oct 23, 2008)

Buckyt said:


> We used them in the 60's from Pensacola pier and caught cigar minnows.


Yep. 80s for me. Gill net on a string

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## fairpoint (May 9, 2013)

goheel said:


> Saw people using them at Navarre pier. They're illegal? What can they do that a normal Sabiki rig couldn't?


Catch alewives that won't hit a sabiki.....I was out there a week ago and one rod was catching everybodys bait....the generous owner of the rod "hooked everybody up"......All that the sabikis were catching were hardtails that were going in a cooler to feed people.......lol


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

Up until last year they were illegal because the broad scope of the gill net ban was misinterpreted by FWC and excluded all use. The actual gill net ban is for monofilament nets greater than like 500 sq ft or something like that. It was never meant to block it's use for bait catching, otherwise cast nets could be considered banned. This year it is not mentioned anywhere that wire ring rigs are illegal or any type of small bait gill net, the mesh cannot be greater than 2 inches stretched and more than 25sq ft for recreational anglers. It cannot be used to take game species along with a few others specified, basically anything but bait or trash fish. I have made several this year and provided fresh bait to many a Navarre Pier rat like myself. They work great, if anyone wants one I would be glad to make a few to sell. Figure about $7 after material and labor. I have not made any net ones yet, just pilchard rings using 40lb 7-strand and 60lb single strand. I have different sizes for my use to catch cigs, LY, herring, and threadfins.


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## Randall2point0 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wirelessly posted

Be nice if they are legal now, can't catch sardines at night with a sabiki.


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## startzc (Feb 4, 2013)

They are legal, as posted previously by another member, I asked the same thing and got the same answer. For BAIT. If you keep an ensnared trout or spanish it is illegal.

From: Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission <[email protected]>  








Date: Monday, June 16, 2014 9:16 AM








To: xx








Subject: Ask FWC :: W014127-061314 
xx: These are legal for the harvest of bait species. Thanks, Alan 




Create Date: 6/13/2014 10:06:00 AM
Reference # W014127-061314
Customer: 
Category: Fishing, Saltwater Fish & Marine Organisms

Description: Are these rigs illegal to use now? Small net with a red ribbon running through them, catch the fish by the gills. Remember we used them in the 70s. Think they are called Pilchard rigs too. If they are illegal, cant we get a law to allow something like them just for recreational bait catching?

Visit *Ask FWC* to find answers fast, contact us and view your previous requests.


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## Randall2point0 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wirelessly posted

Awesome, thanks Starzc!


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## flounder1156 (Jul 9, 2009)

Baitfish anglers.........I'm researching this topic with our L/E people....trying to find if indeed they are legal or illegal. 

*Based on the actual text of the law* ....stay tuned ......

As of now I would hold off using one for catching bait.


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## fishmagician (Jun 4, 2014)

We used them in the mid 90's and they were outlawed around that time. Using them now should get you a citation unless the lawmakers went back on themselves, now they wouldn't do that would they???????


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## Ez2cDave (Feb 7, 2015)

*How to make Pilchard Rings

To All,

When I was growing up in South Florida, I used Pilchard Rings ( aka - "Ribbon Rigs" ) to catch baitfish ( Pilchards / Menhaden ) from the fishing piers . Recently, I discovered that they have been declared to be a "gill net", theoretically "illegal", and not available in stores anymore. I always used to make my own, as a kid.

So, for purely "historical value" . . .

"HOW TO MAKE PILCHARD RINGS"

MATERIALS :

6 ft. of #7 Dark-Colored, Solid Leader Wire

1 Barrel Swivel

1 Snap Swivel ( to allow weight changes )

Cardboard Toilet Paper or Paper Towel Tube ( 1" I.D. Sch. 40 PVC works great, too )

3 ft. of Bright Red Ribbon ( 3/8" - 1/2" wide )

Pyramid, Bank, or Dipsey/ Bass Sinker ( 3/4oz - 1 1/2oz +/- )

CONSTRUCTION :

(1) Start with a six-foot length of No. 7 dark leader wire.

(2) Bend it in half and slide on a barrel swivel.

(3) Tie a LOOSE, TWO-TURN, overhand knot in the wire near the bend to "capture" the swivel

(4) Form a loop, using a the toilet paper or paper towel tube ( or 1" I.D. Sch. 40 PVC pipe )as a "mandrel" ( you may need to vary the loop size depending on baitfish sizes in your area) and make a SINGLE-TURN Overhand Knot,

(5) ALTERNATE the direction of the Overhand Knots each time to help the rig hang straighter

(6) Repeat until you have a series of loops, leaving a couple of inches of wire free at the bottom

(7) Slip on the Snap Swivel and connect the loose ends of the wire, using a SHORT Haywire Twist

(8) Hold the rig at each end and pull on it to stretch the loops out into an oval shape

(9) Attach the bright red ribbon at one end by knotting it to the Swivel loop

(10) Pass the ribbon through rings one-third and two-thirds of the way up the rig

(11) Attach the ribbon to the other Swivel, leaving some slack in the ribbon when fully extended

(12) Attach the Sinker to the Snap Swivel and the rig is complete

HOW TO USE:

Tie the rig to a light spinning rod and lower or cast it into a baitfish school and let it sink. You will feel baitfish hitting the rig. Keep the line tight and wait for the rod to bend. When it does, wait a few seconds and reel up. Remove baitfish and repeat, as desired !


















*


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*I used a 1'X1' piece of 3/4"or 1" mono net for years.*

I made the frame out of #4 ga. copper wire. laced the net to the ring with red ribbon. Today I would use red zip ties.

I don't remember whether mesh size was 1" or 3/4" I know you don't lace it too tight. Leave a little sag in the net. Legal today??? Doggoned if I know.


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## Lawdog88 (Oct 9, 2009)

So . . . . are ribbon rigs legal or not in FL - for bait - and are not considered "gill nets" under the gill net ban ?

Please advise !


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## gator75 (Aug 11, 2016)

Where can I buy these?


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## reelthrill (Oct 3, 2007)

They are not illegal. I wrote the FWC and they replied back that they are legal to use. I still have the reply in case I have a problem. This was at least two years ago.


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## reelthrill (Oct 3, 2007)

gator75 said:


> Where can I buy these?


Very simple to make. Contact Brunson net company in Foley Al and ask them for either `1 inch square or 1 1/8 inch square mesh and they will send you a section.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

gator75 said:


> Where can I buy these?


The ring catchers are easy to make with single strand wire and don't tangle up like the mono webbing ribbon rigs.


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## reelthrill (Oct 3, 2007)

kingfish501 said:


> The ring catchers are easy to make with single strand wire and don't tangle up like the mono webbing ribbon rigs.


Weave a piece of 50lb mono down the middle of the ribbon and it will not tangle. Tie your weight to the end of it.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

Gator, GBBT had the net webbing ones last year. If you want one of the ring type, let me know and I'll give you one. All you'll have to add is the top swivel and weight.


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## gator75 (Aug 11, 2016)

kingfish501 said:


> Gator, GBBT had the net webbing ones last year. If you want one of the ring type, let me know and I'll give you one. All you'll have to add is the top swivel and weight.


Very kind. I think I'll give the web ones a shot. If they are out, I'll happily pick up a ring ones from ya. But insist I pay a few bucks for your time.


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## Lawdog88 (Oct 9, 2009)

reelthrill said:


> They are not illegal. I wrote the FWC and they replied back that they are legal to use. I still have the reply in case I have a problem. This was at least two years ago.



You would do us all a service if you made a pdf out of their response, and published it on this board so we can print it out and also carry it with us.

Reason: If you call FWC today - which I just did - speak to the law enforcement division and ask about ribbon nets or rigs just to catch bait only, you will get the usual "anything that entangles . . . . is a gill net and is illegal" response.

So if, as a matter of written policy on official letterhead, the FWC has - and still is - exempting ribbon nets, rings, rigs for catching bait, all of us are better protected if we have that definitive, official policy on a piece of paper . . . to show the Judge after the citation.

If you will produce the letter for us (me), I would sincerely appreciate it.

I thank you for your efforts, and best regards,

LD


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## jeremyledford (Jun 24, 2012)

Lawdog88 said:


> You would do us all a service if you made a pdf out of their response, and published it on this board so we can print it out and also carry it with us.
> 
> Reason: If you call FWC today - which I just did - speak to the law enforcement division and ask about ribbon nets or rigs just to catch bait only, you will get the usual "anything that entangles . . . . is a gill net and is illegal" response.
> 
> ...


I would really appreciate it also.


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Some of the FWC guys leave common sense on the dock.*

Yes, these rigs gill fish. Are they gonna wipe out any species? Not in 10,000,000 years! They were a great way to catch bait before Sabiki rigs or even gold hooks. When I was a kid, I snatched all of my bait. In 1963, Hartly Golden and I started using gold hooks. Whether we were first or not, I cannot say nut it sure was a great improvement over snatch hooks. A couple of years later, I started seeing the ribbon rigs. 

I had a 10X10 foot bait gill net that I used to catch bait when I was commercial fishing. It was absolutely deadly. I had lights on both sides of my canopy. trn one off and put the net in the dark. All of the bait would be in the light. Flip off the light then turn the one on on the side with the net and haul the net fast while you could still lift it. I suppose this net would still be legal in Federal waters but transporting it might be a problem.


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## Sailor50 (Nov 8, 2007)

06-16-2014, 01:53 PM #*22* Sailor50 
Senior Member
Trigger

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Destin, Fl
Posts: 399 










I thought I would just ask the man. Got this email today from FWC ....


​
From: Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission <[email protected]>  








Date: Monday, June 16, 2014 9:16 AM








To: xx








Subject: Ask FWC :: W014127-061314 
xx: These are legal for the harvest of bait species. Thanks, Alan 




Create Date: 6/13/2014 10:06:00 AM
Reference # W014127-061314
Customer: 
Category: Fishing, Saltwater Fish & Marine Organisms

Description: Are these rigs illegal to use now? Small net with a red ribbon runnging through them, catch the fish by the gills. Remember we used them in the 70s. Think they are called Pilchard rigs too. If they are illegal, cant we get a law to allow something like them just for recreational bait catching?

Visit *Ask FWC* to find answers fast, contact us and view your previous requests. 


I emailed FWC a few years ago and got this reply and posted it. To me they are legal and would have no problem using one. Don't need to overthink this


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## Lawdog88 (Oct 9, 2009)

​Good day xxxxxl, 

Ribbon nets are considered entangling nets, and entangling nets are prohibited in Florida state waters. A person cannot *possess* an entangling net in state waters regardless of what species is being targeted. 

Thanks, 
Justin Wallheiser
850-617-9623 



Create Date: 6/13/2018 2:02:40 PM
Reference # W081585-061318
Customer: Mr. xxxxxxxx 

Category: Fishing, Saltwater Fish & Marine Organisms

Description: There are conflicting opinions whether "ribbon nets" (a skinny mono net about a foot or two long, less than a foot wide, with a red ribbon woven through the net), are legal to catch baitfish or not.

Are they an exception to the "gill net" prohibition or not ?

If they are not an exception, why aren't they, since they are not used to catch edible gamefish, but only (basically) trash bait fish, which are in turn, used to catch gamefish ?

If they are not excepted, I request a rule, law, or policy change, to allow them to be legal for the limited purpose of catching "bait fish."

Thanks,

XXXXX

Visit *Ask FWC* to find answers fast, contact us and view your previous requests.




And this is the "official" written response I got from FWC the other day.

Is there confusion at FWC over ribbon rigs ? Looks like it.


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## softbutchharley (Jan 19, 2016)

At Navarre pier, and they work great !!


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## CurDog (Nov 14, 2010)

Since it is used for baitfish. It should be re-categorized and placed in the same legal guidelines as "cast-nets and bait seines". 

But I'm thinking if you used a nylon-twine mesh and not monofilament (as described in beach/haul nets), then it should be legal. But the baitfish will see the nylon and probably avoid it?


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

Get you signatures to get it on the ballot, Supreme Ct approval and a 2/3 vote in support and you can make that change to the constitution


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## Ez2cDave (Feb 7, 2015)

Ribbon Rig details . . .

https://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f35/ribbons-664226/

Please see attached PDF files . . .

Tight Lines !


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## Lawdog88 (Oct 9, 2009)

An exception to the rule might be the easier path.


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## Lawdog88 (Oct 9, 2009)

Ez2cDave said:


> Ribbon Rig details . . .
> 
> https://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f35/ribbons-664226/
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting.

Time to get a rule change, not an amendment change.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

I contacted FWC. According to FWC, webbing is illegal and making rings from mono is illegal...BUT....ribbon ring rigs made from wire leader material is legal.


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## Ez2cDave (Feb 7, 2015)

Lawdog88 said:


> Thanks for posting.
> 
> Time to get a rule change, not an amendment change.



You're very welcome !

Agreed on a Rule Change . . . 

We need to know the proper steps, what evidence / research is required, agencies to approach, etc.

Tight Lines !


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Look at the rig in softbitcharley's post.*

I'm not certain but the mesh looks like the stuff used to bundle Christmas trees and sod. That stuff isn't very tough but it sure is cheap.


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## kingfish501 (Oct 7, 2007)

captken said:


> I'm not certain but the mesh looks like the stuff used to bundle Christmas trees and sod. That stuff isn't very tough but it sure is cheap.


It is actually mono webbing used in building nets.


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

They are not outlawed by rule. They are outlawed by the constitution so you cannot get a rule change to fix the issue. You would need to amend the constitution


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## Play'N Hooky Too (Sep 29, 2007)

Has anybody been cited for using one of these rigs?

It would seem that this is one of those areas that is wide open to selective enforcement. By the strictest definition they are an entanglement device and are therefore illegal under the gill net ban. As such, you are going to be hard pressed to get any wildlife official to go on record as saying they are ok to use. 

At the same time, the spirit of the law that makes them technically illegal was intended to prohibit the use of "gill nets" as that term is generally understood (ie a 100' long monofilament net that indiscriminately entangles any fish that comes in contact with it). The problem from a legislative standpoint is coming up with a definition of what exactly constitutes a "gill net". If the definition is a net that is more than 50' long- then fine, I'll make mine 49-1/2 feet. If it is defined as a monofiliment net, fine, I'll make mine out of braid. If it is one that has a 1" or greater mesh, fine I'll go with 7/8"mesh. If it has to be less than 1 square foot, fine I'll make a bunch of 0.9 square foot nets and sting 'em together. etc....you get the point.

As long as you are in compliance with the rules for the fish you are catching with the bait you are catching with a ribbon rig and aren't using it "commercially" I cant see where there would be a problem. Asking for them to put it in writing is the equivalent of asking FHP for a letter saying it is OK to drive 9 mph over the speed limit on I-10.:no:


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*One comment here that needs addressing.*

One of the posts mentioned "The ribbon rig doesn't tangle much."

One reason folks have problems with Sabiki's is that they use a sinker that is too light. for an unattended bait rig, use a 6-8 ounce sinker on a 3 hook home made Sabiki rig. You will get very few tangles. If you factor in the tangles and hooked fingers you get with a 6 hook rig, you may find out that a 3 hook rig comes close to keeping up I tie mine with 20# Fluoro main line and 12# Fluoro droppers. I used mono for 50 years with good results. I may catch more bait with Fluoro. I don't know.

3 hook rigs are safer, cheaper and mighty easy to make. I used plain #8 gold hooks for many years. 

If anybody is interested in making their own Sabiki rigs, I'll make a couple and shoot a video or at least some photos. This ain't rocket science.


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## Bill Me (Oct 5, 2007)

Play n hooky is spot on. Great analogy. 

Capt Ken, would love to see you tie up some bait rigs.


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## captken (Feb 24, 2008)

*Rattle my cage if you don't see the photos by noon tomorrow or so..*

I'll make up a jig that will allow you to make them exactly alike every time too.

I just saw your inquiry.


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## BigJewett (May 16, 2019)

*Red Ribbon*

Quite certain someone was selling these on consignment in July of '17 when we were down there fishing Navarre Pier. Sabikis weren't catching anything at the time but this little kid was getting bait with one on every drop. My son went back to the pier shop and got one there, the last one. Really would like to get my hands on one for when we're there this July, just in case the sabiki is crapping out. Looked like red yarn in the center, with a mesh that ran behind it.


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## bowdiddly (Jan 6, 2010)

BigJewett said:


> Quite certain someone was selling these on consignment in July of '17 when we were down there fishing Navarre Pier. Sabikis weren't catching anything at the time but this little kid was getting bait with one on every drop. My son went back to the pier shop and got one there, the last one. Really would like to get my hands on one for when we're there this July, just in case the sabiki is crapping out. Looked like red yarn in the center, with a mesh that ran behind it.


I made my own but Broxson Outdoors has them in stock.


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