# .223 Wylde opinions ?



## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Will have my first AR build completed tomorrow in .223 Wylde with a full auto BCG, what are your opinions on the Wylde ?


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## kanaka (Oct 3, 2007)

My question is why you are asking this AFTER your build? Should be GTG but hey.....


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

I am building based on the advice of someone VERY experienced with AR's just wanting others opinions, from what I read there are NO cons at all.


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## _Backwoods (Dec 4, 2013)

CCC said:


> I am building based on the advice of someone VERY experienced with AR's just wanting others opinions, from what I read there are NO cons at all.



Then you're asking to see here yourself talk?


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

_Backwoods said:


> Then you're asking to see here yourself talk?


I am asking for your opinion, got one ?


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

Whats the purpose of the rifle for?
Is it a self defense or a rifle you are training with so you could be shooting steel case ammo?
One you are reloading to shoot for accuracy?
Plenty of variables here.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Brandon_SPC said:


> Whats the purpose of the rifle for?
> Is it a self defense or a rifle you are training with so you could be shooting steel case ammo?
> One you are reloading to shoot for accuracy?
> Plenty of variables here.


Honestly mostly a safe queen I might put 500 rounds a year thru it if I am lucky, but what I want out of it is short range shooting, nothing over 100 yards and CQB if the SHTF. And no I will not be doing any hand loads all factory loads


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## PompNewbie (Oct 1, 2007)

CCC honestly if I was going for SHTF/CQB I would have just gone 5.56 chamber over the 223 wylde.
Yes you can shoot both 5.56 and 223 in the "Wylde" chamber, but the throat being what is different in the wylde, and the 5.56 I would prefer a little wiggle room for the full function on a variety of ammo brass, steel cased, 223, etc.. I am pretty sure the "wylde" will be a bit more picky especially if you try and run Tula or Wolf steel cased ammo.
Just my .02


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

CCC said:


> Honestly mostly a safe queen I might put 500 rounds a year thru it if I am lucky, but what I want out of it is short range shooting, nothing over 100 yards and CQB if the SHTF. And no I will not be doing any hand loads all factory loads


You should be fine. Whats the point of having it if that will be a safe queen. Guns are meant to be fired lol


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

PompNewbie said:


> CCC honestly if I was going for SHTF/CQB I would have just gone 5.56 chamber over the 223 wylde.
> Yes you can shoot both 5.56 and 223 in the "Wylde" chamber, but the throat being what is different in the wylde, and the 5.56 I would prefer a little wiggle room for the full function on a variety of ammo brass, steel cased, 223, etc.. I am pretty sure the "wylde" will be a bit more picky especially if you try and run Tula or Wolf steel cased ammo.
> Just my .02


Well we will definitely find out about that one because I tend to pick up whatever ammo I can so I will report back if she is picky.


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## The Pitt (Apr 7, 2012)

You will be fine. That's a good chamber. You can shoot 556 and 223 from it and it could be more accurate then a 556 chamber.

No offense but you don't need "wiggle room"

My wylde chamber AR shoots tula just fine.

There are so man AR component manufacturers out there just pick one from a reputable company.


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## The Pitt (Apr 7, 2012)

Google is your friend. Check it this quick article. 
http://aresarmor.com/blog/clearing-the-caliber-confusion-223-wylde-vs-5-56-nato/


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

The upper, get the lower tomorrow:


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## kanaka (Oct 3, 2007)

Hmmm, if you really get your ammo like that, maybe you should have got a AK. Nothing worse than your "SHTF" gun don't work cause it don't like the ammo you picked up on sale.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

kanaka said:


> Hmmm, if you really get your ammo like that, maybe you should have got a AK. Nothing worse than your "SHTF" gun don't work cause it don't like the ammo you picked up on sale.


Thats next, but honestly my Bushmaster chewed thru anything, we will see what this one does.


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## kanaka (Oct 3, 2007)

:thumbsup: Let us know! :thumbsup:


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

CCC said:


> Thats next, but honestly my Bushmaster chewed thru anything, we will see what this one does.


It should eat it just fine... I don't see why the wylde wouldn't eat steel case... Only difference is the barrel probably isn't chrome line but to be honest that is very small factor if you don't shoot a lot.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Yep that's what I learned from my friend is chrome lined is not a big deal


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

The semi finished product, MBUS sights will be here Monday, then all that is left is a reflex sight and a vertical foregrip.


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## ghost95 (May 4, 2009)

My most accurate build was a 20" Bull Barrel upper with a Wylde chamber and 1 in 8 twist. So far it has shot everything from 45gn to 77gn under an inch. Most better than .75" Best groups were from handloading. 24.7gn Reloader 15 with SMK 68 BTHP. Best ever was .251" for 5 at 100 yds. 

Still working on 77gn load. Haven't tried steel case yet. I'd expect around 2" though.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Taking this out for it's maiden voyage next Sat. 14.5 inch barrel, full auto BCG, keymod forward, 1/7 twist,


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

I have to ask... is that muzzle device pinned and welded?


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

John B. said:


> I have to ask... is that muzzle device pinned and welded?


Yes it is


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

CCC said:


> Yes it is


Thank god. Lol.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

John B. said:


> Thank god. Lol.


Came from PSA that way, when I say "I" built it all I did was slap it together, bought upper minus BCG and charging handle and then a complete lower so simply thru in the BCG and charging handle and pinned it to the lower done.


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

How's it run? Or is that this weekend? That the one from PSA with the rifle gas system on the 14.5" barrel? Not sure you will see any difference in accuracy between the two chambers running from a 14.5" barrel, however.

:whistling: Before I handed in all my firearms due to them being "BAD", I had a 16" Rock Creek 5R stainless 1:8" twist mid-length gas barreled upper that Seekins Precision was suppose to ream the chamber in .223 Wylde and it ended up being 5.56mm instead. Ran just as good as the Bravo Company hammer forged 16" mid-length 1:7" twist 5.56mm barreled upper. Accuracy from 55gr-77gr 5.56mm and .223Rem match ammo was about same between the 1:7" and 1:8". I wasn't too worried about being 5.56 over .223Wylde as it was on 16" barrel and I don't have to worry about it being picky about handloads that I may load tuned for the BCM for single loading. Loading to mag length, you will have bullet jump regardless. On average you are talking .006" +/- .002" difference in COAL to touching lands between the two from the ones I've checked.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes Slack that is the one from PSA and I go shoot it tomorrow morning, will let you know how she does.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok 90 rounds fired great gun, DOES NOT LIKE TUL Ammo, no problems with brass whatsoever. The TUL ammo would fire a round or two then fail to chamber a new round, thus the TUL ammo for sale in the for sale section. MBUS sights were dead on right out of the package and slapped on the gun at 50 yards.


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

CCC said:


> Ok 90 rounds fired great gun, DOES NOT LIKE TUL Ammo, no problems with brass whatsoever. The TUL ammo would fire a round or two then fail to chamber a new round, thus the TUL ammo for sale in the for sale section. MBUS sights were dead on right out of the package and slapped on the gun at 50 yards.


You have to beat the mbus on rail? All mine were so tight they had to be persuaded with a nylon hammer to slide on. They can take a beating lol

Did you try .223rem or 5.56mm ammo for the tests on brass loaded ammunition? You may not be encountering an issue with the chamber as much as the gas system if it ran great on 5.56 pressure ammo but not .223 rem. By failure to chamber do you mean it would not pickup the next round or it wouldn't ram home? Tul from what I remember is .223 rem on lighter side.

If .223rem brass runs reliably, I'm talking out my arse below:
It could be not enough gas to reliably cycle the action with the rifle length gas system on a 14.5" barrel. The opposite of an over gassed carbine system on a 16" barrel. I've seen a slightly under gassed 14.5" with a mid-length system that running .223rem pressure occasionally wouldn't pickup the next round, but on a slightly dirty chamber would not cycle well at all and wouldn't fully chamber. On 5.56mm pressures it would run flawless. I can imagine a rifle length gas system would be iffy on low powered .223 rem loads depending on gas port and buffer/spring.

You said you are running the full mass M16 BCG. If it has issues with .223 rem pressures, there are a few things you can do to tune the action. Testing a lighter buffer and buffer spring would be one. Did your lower come with standard spring and carbine buffer? Some manufacturers use H1 buffer which is great on shorter gas systems but may be too much for your gas system and full mass BCG.
You can also swap the carrier to an AR15 carrier or a better option is running a low mass carrier. 

Last option is just stick to 5.56 ammo. I would just lube her up, break it in on 100-250 5.56mm then just pickup a 20rd box of each XM193, XM855, some cheap brass .223rem 55gr fmj, .223rem 62gr fmj, and .223rem 75-77gr hpbt match ammo. Try the different levels of ammo and see what cycles to test if it is actually the steel ammo. Always better to tune the action to run anything reliably rather than being stuck on certain power levels of ammo. Springs and buffers are cheap.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

slackwolf said:


> You have to beat the mbus on rail? All mine were so tight they had to be persuaded with a nylon hammer to slide on. They can take a beating lol
> 
> Did you try .223rem or 5.56mm ammo for the tests on brass loaded ammunition? You may not be encountering an issue with the chamber as much as the gas system if it ran great on 5.56 pressure ammo but not .223 rem. By failure to chamber do you mean it would not pickup the next round or it wouldn't ram home? Tul from what I remember is .223 rem on lighter side.
> 
> ...


Yea the front MBUS was tight as hell rear was not that bad. And yes my lower came with standard buffer, I agree that the low pressure steel TUL ammo was the reason for it not chambering, it would fire a couple then eject a shell but fail to load another at all I would have to recharge fully to chamber the next round. I could tell the softer recoil with the TUL ammo. But all brass did fine. So needless to say just going to run a little better all brass round thru her from now on. A Great weapon I am extremely pleased.


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

CCC said:


> Yea the front MBUS was tight as hell rear was not that bad. And yes my lower came with standard buffer, I agree that the low pressure steel TUL ammo was the reason for it not chambering, it would fire a couple then eject a shell but fail to load another at all I would have to recharge fully to chamber the next round. I could tell the softer recoil with the TUL ammo. But all brass did fine. So needless to say just going to run a little better all brass round thru her from now on. A Great weapon I am extremely pleased.


PSA makes some quality firearms, especially with their FN sourced barrels. They may be 100% FN on barrels now but the price is hard to beat for the components.

Was the brass cased ammo the higher pressure 5.56?
I'm willing to bet you can slap a springco yellow spring in that rifle and you'll be GTG for anything the chamber will eat. Doubt you would ever get bolt bounce with that gas system and the full mass bcg. You can always call or email their tech line and get confirmation, but $20 to eat any ammo isn't bad. Unless it has changed, it worked great for low power loads on 14.5 middys and 16 rifles. Was like 10-15% lower power than standard. Their springs are top notch also.
http://www.sprinco.com/tactical.html

This guy's shop is in niceville and is a good resource: http://www.nokick.com/Sprinco_M_4_Carbine_Standard_Power_Buffer_Spring_p/sprinco-25113.htm
Checkout blitzkrieg components, same shop. Awesome front sight posts https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok here is the ALMOST finished product MBUS sights installed and Vortex SPARC 2, all that is left is a .45 degree fore grip.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

I always keep two buffers for my AR. When I built mine on a 16" carbine gas system I got the 3 ounce carbine buffer. I could shoot steel case all day long no hiccup but as soon as I started shooting rapid fire with brass I would get double feeds, failure to eject, and the brass was being thrown in the 1 o'clock position. What was happening was my rifle was being over gassed. So I bought an H buffer along with BCM $5 extractor spring upgrade kit and she runs flawlessly beside every few hundred rounds of steel I will have a malfunction. 

Don't go through the hassle of buying other buffers, other bolt carriers, etc just get an adjustable gas block and run the light buffer like a carbine buffer. Then with a little allen wrench adjust the gas to find where it become reliable, it is very easy. Any AR I build now will have an adjustable gas block.

Oh and one other thing I have noticed.... Pro mags suck for the AR or at least from my experience. Every other round malfunction but as soon as I swapped to a Pmag, HexMag, Standard GI Mag, seem like everything besides a promag I was good to go....


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I always keep two buffers for my AR. When I built mine on a 16" carbine gas system I got the 3 ounce carbine buffer. I could shoot steel case all day long no hiccup but as soon as I started shooting rapid fire with brass I would get double feeds, failure to eject, and the brass was being thrown in the 1 o'clock position. What was happening was my rifle was being over gassed. So I bought an H buffer along with BCM $5 extractor spring upgrade kit and she runs flawlessly beside every few hundred rounds of steel I will have a malfunction.
> 
> Don't go through the hassle of buying other buffers, other bolt carriers, etc just get an adjustable gas block and run the light buffer like a carbine buffer. Then with a little allen wrench adjust the gas to find where it become reliable, it is very easy. Any AR I build now will have an adjustable gas block.
> 
> Oh and one other thing I have noticed.... Pro mags suck for the AR or at least from my experience. Every other round malfunction but as soon as I swapped to a Pmag, HexMag, Standard GI Mag, seem like everything besides a promag I was good to go....


Never heard of an adjustable gas block helping for an under-gassed rifle, only over-gassed or suppressed applications. A long gas system on a 14.7" or under barrel is a whole different animal than a short gas system on any barrel over 14.5". For over-gassed applications, adjustable gas block is ideal for the reason you pointed out. IF it continued to have issues on low charge ammo, swapping buffers or even a lighter bolt carrier is a cheaper and easier solution than drilling out a pinned/welded FH, removing the current gas block and swapping to an adjustable, then pinning and welding a new FH or hopefully (doubtful) saving the original FH to re-do.

Typically that standard gas block style that PSA and most everyone else uses for low profiles are sized to the gas port for whatever batch they are rolling out. For under-gassed, only hope is opening up the gas port (and running adjustable if overdo it), or reduce your reciprocating mass (lighter BCG, lighter buffer, etc). Slightly lighter buffer spring is another option as long as Springco hasn't changed their lighter spring in past year or two. If it's marginal with a standard carbine spring, carbine buffer, and M16 FA BCG then running a lighter spring is cheapest start. There isn't a lot of mainstream buffers lighter than standard carbine, only the Knight's Armament SR-15 buffer which last I checked was $80ish. Before I did that I would just go lighter on a BCG with a AR15 SA BCG being next in line, then the low mass types like JP. 

:thumbsup:

Otherwise, agreed on the Promags although i've only seen them fail to lock back or fail to pick up the next round a handful of times on an overgassed 14.5" carbine running a light BCG, standard carbine spring, carbine buffer, and 5.56 pressure handloads. Had SEVERE bolt bounce. Pmag's still functioned with same rifle, but the problem was the rifle more so than the mag.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

slackwolf said:


> Never heard of an adjustable gas block helping for an under-gassed rifle, only over-gassed or suppressed applications. A long gas system on a 14.7" or under barrel is a whole different animal than a short gas system on any barrel over 14.5". For over-gassed applications, adjustable gas block is ideal for the reason you pointed out. IF it continued to have issues on low charge ammo, swapping buffers or even a lighter bolt carrier is a cheaper and easier solution than drilling out a pinned/welded FH, removing the current gas block and swapping to an adjustable, then pinning and welding a new FH or hopefully (doubtful) saving the original FH to re-do.
> 
> Typically that standard gas block style that PSA and most everyone else uses for low profiles are sized to the gas port for whatever batch they are rolling out. For under-gassed, only hope is opening up the gas port (and running adjustable if overdo it), or reduce your reciprocating mass (lighter BCG, lighter buffer, etc). Slightly lighter buffer spring is another option as long as Springco hasn't changed their lighter spring in past year or two. If it's marginal with a standard carbine spring, carbine buffer, and M16 FA BCG then running a lighter spring is cheapest start. There isn't a lot of mainstream buffers lighter than standard carbine, only the Knight's Armament SR-15 buffer which last I checked was $80ish. Before I did that I would just go lighter on a BCG with a AR15 SA BCG being next in line, then the low mass types like JP.
> 
> ...


I know his systems was probably being under gassed which probably has a buffer that is to heavy for the load that was being used. The only reason why I suggested an adjustable gas block was so he can regulate the gas when he runs the lightest buffer. So he doesn't have to go through the experimenting phase like I did with buffers. Beats buying another buffer trying it, doesn't work, buy another buffer tries it, finally work etc.

JP low mass Bolt carrier right around $200
buffers can range anywhere from $10 to $120

Or and adjustable gass block for $80 and a buffer for $10


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Guys, great info but as long as I use brass ammo it is fine, so I am just going to use brass ammo, simple fix, no more steel case ammo.


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

Brandon_SPC said:


> I know his systems was probably being under gassed which probably has a buffer that is to heavy for the load that was being used. The only reason why I suggested an adjustable gas block was so he can regulate the gas when he runs the lightest buffer. So he doesn't have to go through the experimenting phase like I did with buffers. Beats buying another buffer trying it, doesn't work, buy another buffer tries it, finally work etc.
> 
> JP low mass Bolt carrier right around $200
> buffers can range anywhere from $10 to $120
> ...


Did you miss that he has a pinned and welded flash hider with your price comparison? Plenty of low profile adjustable blocks, and a few two piece gas blocks out there, never seen those two combined. Splitting and removing FH and repinning and rewelding a replacement FH can be fun. Swapping a few parts is still cheaper and easier...... If you go through the trouble, you might as well open up the gas port, otherwise the adjustable gas block will just be hanging out at fully open. Leaving the gas port the way it is now would be pissing in wind. Again, over gassed carbine length on 16" is an entirely different animal than a rifle length 14.5". Even 14.5" Middy's struggle with oversized gas ports on .223rem pressures.

PSA's standard buffer is the carbine buffer, not H1 or higher unless it is specified and pay the difference. Standard spring with their lowers or kits is the normal strength carbine spring. KAC's lighter carbine buffer only drops around .1oz off the normal 2.95-3.00oz carbine buffer. Going to an AR15 SA BCG over the m16 fa BCG will drop more weight, .3-.9oz depending on cut. A full BCG can be had for under $120 or even a wmd nib-x carrier for that or less. 

To each their own.... A $18 lighter spring is where I would start. Can't shave much weight off the CAR buffer and an ar15 SA cut carrier will run $50-120 to shave just under an ounce. Probably plenty of recip weight reduction to run on lower pressure loads, but the lighter springco still has enough strength to chamber on a dirty chamber, but run on light charges while under gassed.


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

CCC said:


> Guys, great info but as long as I use brass ammo it is fine, so I am just going to use brass ammo, simple fix, no more steel case ammo.


10-4, did you ever run 50-55gr .223rem loads in brass cased or just 5.56 pressure? Was suggesting the spring swap as cheap insurance to run anything out there. Sometimes 5.56 pressure loads get expensive or hard to come by, especially in election years.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

slackwolf said:


> 10-4, did you ever run 50-55gr .223rem loads in brass cased or just 5.56 pressure? Was suggesting the spring swap as cheap insurance to run anything out there. Sometimes 5.56 pressure loads get expensive or hard to come by, especially in election years.


Ran .223 and .556 brass just fine


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## slackwolf (Oct 23, 2007)

CCC said:


> Ran .223 and .556 brass just fine


:thumbsup:
Good deal. In which case disregard the tuning and screw the Tul. If ever have the short stroking with anything .223 brass, then tune.


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## Brandon_SPC (Nov 2, 2013)

slackwolf said:


> Did you miss that he has a pinned and welded flash hider with your price comparison? Plenty of low profile adjustable blocks, and a few two piece gas blocks out there, never seen those two combined. Splitting and removing FH and repinning and rewelding a replacement FH can be fun. Swapping a few parts is still cheaper and easier...... If you go through the trouble, you might as well open up the gas port, otherwise the adjustable gas block will just be hanging out at fully open. Leaving the gas port the way it is now would be pissing in wind. Again, over gassed carbine length on 16" is an entirely different animal than a rifle length 14.5". Even 14.5" Middy's struggle with oversized gas ports on .223rem pressures.
> 
> PSA's standard buffer is the carbine buffer, not H1 or higher unless it is specified and pay the difference. Standard spring with their lowers or kits is the normal strength carbine spring. KAC's lighter carbine buffer only drops around .1oz off the normal 2.95-3.00oz carbine buffer. Going to an AR15 SA BCG over the m16 fa BCG will drop more weight, .3-.9oz depending on cut. A full BCG can be had for under $120 or even a wmd nib-x carrier for that or less.
> 
> To each their own.... A $18 lighter spring is where I would start. Can't shave much weight off the CAR buffer and an ar15 SA cut carrier will run $50-120 to shave just under an ounce. Probably plenty of recip weight reduction to run on lower pressure loads, but the lighter springco still has enough strength to chamber on a dirty chamber, but run on light charges while under gassed.


 All I was providing is an example of what I had, which I know is the opposite, and can be fixed with running and adjustable gas block and a light buffer. If he is running a carbine buffer (didn't know PSA runs carbines I don't buy from PSA) then I would drop down to something like a Taccom Ultra light buffer (requires adjustable gas block because of how light they are) or change the spring like you said . All I was saying is instead of going the low mass bolt carrier route to fix something like that both of us know for 100% if it would fix it or not. Light buffer, light spring, and adjustable gas block without experimenting. Yes I see he has a pinned and welded flashider, which can be removed and re added with just a little time of the user but just didn't want him to go drop a few hundred dollars on experimenting.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Ran another 100 rounds thru here today with not one FTE or FTF ( brass of course) won't shoot anything else in her from now on.


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Adding some color, ordering red take down pins next:


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

That a strike industries charging handle?


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## CCC (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes sir


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## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Nice. I swap out their latches on all my standard charging handles. Way cheaper than a bcm...


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