# Million Dollar AR Build Question



## bamagun (Apr 28, 2008)

Guys/Gals,

I know this has been discussed a million times and there are countless threads I could search through, but since Im at home watching it rain I feel like typing more than reading.. Here goes..

What are my best non-expensive options for building an AR (my first)? I plan on using it for hunting and target as well. I will be rough on it, so I dont need something that is "full" of plastic, but a little plastic in the right places wont hurt. I dont want .223 since I already have a mini 14 so Im thinking about either 308 or 6.5, what are your opinions? Since I want to keep this cheap, what upper/lower should I go with? I want it to be more accurate than cool looking. I dont need a quad rail, but will need two, so should I go ahead and get the quad or can I save some cash by getting a "bi-rail" or will I regret not having four in the future? I know standard twist is 1/9, but can I get something tighter for more long range accuracy without breaking the bank? Can I save some cash by not having a forward assist or do I need to go ahead and get a reciever that has one? And, do I save money by not buying assembled recievers or save time and hassle and get one assembled?

All of these questions come to this in a nutshell..

IF YOU WERE GOING TO BUILD YOUR FIRST AR, WHAT COMPONENTS WOULD YOU GET AND IN WHAT CALIBER? IE; BRAND/MATERIAL..
Since alot of you are sitting at home today and probably nothing to do, can you please reply back with each component broken down with price? I really want to keep this thing under 750.00 w/o optics..

Thanks a ton ya'll


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## JD7.62 (Feb 13, 2008)

Youre not going to build a .308 or 6.5 for the price your looking at very easily.

If you hang around the large AR forums you MIGHT be able to piece one together used for around that price but its going to take awhile to find what you want. DPMS does offer a low end .308 for a couple hundred more then your price and this is new and already built. However its pretty low end, though honestly it would probably be just fine for hunting and casual plinking.


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## bamagun (Apr 28, 2008)

JD7.62 said:


> Youre not going to build a .308 or 6.5 for the price your looking at very easily.
> 
> If you hang around the large AR forums you MIGHT be able to piece one together used for around that price but its going to take awhile to find what you want. DPMS does offer a low end .308 for a couple hundred more then your price and this is new and already built. However its pretty low end, though honestly it would probably be just fine for hunting and casual plinking.


Yeah, if I end up buying one new that is already built, I will probably go the DPMS route..


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

I would probably sway you away from a .308. An AR-10 is noticably more expensive than an AR-15. The cheapest AR-10s run very close to $1000. For most small game here .223 works just fine.

You really don't need a rail to mount things either. The Magpul MOE handguards allow you to mount small sections of rail at multiple angles and locations. 

You also don't need to free float either. The true advantage of free floating is that the weight of your accessories and the weight of your hand-hold on the handguard won't affect zero. If you keep the same items on your handguard and zero it it will repeat everytime. Keep in mind even if you do swap items or use a heavy hold on your handguards, at the ranges people typically hunt here, it will be a non-issue since any shift will be minimal.

As for twist rate, I recommend 1x9 for most people. The 1x9 allows you to use lighter bullets than 55gr. There are a good number of varmint bullets that are in the 30-40 grain. The upper limit for 1x9 is 75gr and maybe (test to be sure) 77gr. The only reason to use 1x7 is if your going to be using bullets between 55gr and 77gr (technically you can go 100gr, but the bullets are too long to fit in the mag). Keep in mind that these are for .223 bullets. 

I don't know much about 6.5, 6.8 or .300 AAC. .223 fits my intended purposes just fine. I often think that the new intermediate calibers are just a solution looking for a problem. One of the reasons that the above three calibers were invented for was because the M855 cartridge the military uses is junk, but modern loads the MK318 have solved that issue.

My favorite place to buy quality parts on a budget is Palmetto State Armory. I also like to keep everything within the same brand whenever building.

Buy a $99 lower from them.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html

Get a Lower Parts Kit (LPK). $104 with stock, buffer spring, buffer and buffer tube. Your going to need a castle nut wrench to put on the buffer tube. I have one and can help you out if needed (I'm in Pensacola).

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...tto-state-armory-classic-lower-build-kit.html

Get a 6.8 upper for about $500 with BCG and charging handle. Make sure you get MOE handguards if you want to mount things to them. Of course you can also forgo a bi-pod. Whatever happened to sandbags and slings?

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers.html

Put it together and be happy.


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## Dixie (Oct 12, 2011)

I've got spikes LPKs for $70


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## bamagun (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks alot.. That is alot of good info there.. As far as the caliber, I already have a 223 that I kill critters with, but I want something larger that I can take out and kill pigs/deer with if I want. Obviously, I will have to make a decision between cost and size of the round since the larger-the more expensive..


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## Grove (Jul 7, 2012)

Ive always wanted to build a 9mm AR carbine, mainly for ammo savings, seems like people who own 9mm ARs are less likely to sell them than 556/308


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

If I were getting an AR to hunt and was on a budget it would be 6.8SPC II or a 300 BLK. If it were my only/first AR I'd be obligated to have it in .223, however. 

You CANNOT build a .308 AR for anything close to what you can put together an AR15 for. FYI, AR-10 is an Armalite model designation... many people throw it around as an overarching category of an AR with a 308 chambering but that isn't correct. Either way, for a rough estimate expect one of the 308s to cost you about double of what you can do for the cheapest option for an AR15. Even the lowers are around 3x the cost and not all lowers fit all uppers and not all magazines are universal, etc. The 308 is a totally different beast with many varieties in parts. IMHO unless you really want a semi, get a bolt action for the bigger calibers. 

Back to the AR15s...
Get some cheapo lower from a reputable company like Palmetto State Armory, who also has lower parts kits on sale from time to time. In more depth:

Lower: Palmetto State
Upper: Spikes
Lower Parts: http://www.firearms4less.com/store/en/trigger-groups-parts-kits/57-ar15-parts-kit-no-trigger.html something like that since there is no reason to get an LPK trigger, if you want accuracy you'll end up swapping it out
Barrel: Again go with PSA, they have decent barrels on the cheap, especially if you can find one of their daily deals
Stock: Anything cheap that fits you, Magpul is usually a safe bet
Handguard: Magpul again is good, you can get the MOE grip and add rails as necessary, and its light
Trigger: Geissele or Timney


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## bamagun (Apr 28, 2008)

Bottlerocket said:


> If I were getting an AR to hunt and was on a budget it would be 6.8SPC II or a 300 BLK. If it were my only/first AR I'd be obligated to have it in .223, however.
> 
> You CANNOT build a .308 AR for anything close to what you can put together an AR15 for. FYI, AR-10 is an Armalite model designation... many people throw it around as an overarching category of an AR with a 308 chambering but that isn't correct. Either way, for a rough estimate expect one of the 308s to cost you about double of what you can do for the cheapest option for an AR15. Even the lowers are around 3x the cost and not all lowers fit all uppers and not all magazines are universal, etc. The 308 is a totally different beast with many varieties in parts. IMHO unless you really want a semi, get a bolt action for the bigger calibers.
> 
> ...


 
I already have hunting rifles and I already have a semi in 223 with my mini. I just would like to have something in an AR frame that has some "backbone" to it. It seems like buiding a 10 is going to be outside of what I want to spend so I will have to go with a larger caliber in the 15 frame. I had a buddy of mine mention the 300, so I am going to look into that..


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

bamagun said:


> I already have hunting rifles and I already have a semi in 223 with my mini. I just would like to have something in an AR frame that has some "backbone" to it. It seems like buiding a 10 is going to be outside of what I want to spend so I will have to go with a larger caliber in the 15 frame. I had a buddy of mine mention the 300, so I am going to look into that..


If you go with .300 AAC there is a lot more compatible with the .223 parts. The only thing needed to convert a .223 AR-15 to .300 is a different barrel. 

I know you don't want another .223, but the important thing to note here is that .223 parts are cheaper (because they are in higher demand) than buying parts that only work with 6.8.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

6.8 is the best for hunting this area, hogs, deer, yotes, at least then you have a caliber that will perform, lots of bullet choices and fits in your budget.


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

Gravity3694 said:


> If you go with .300 AAC there is a lot more compatible with the .223 parts. The only thing needed to convert a .223 AR-15 to .300 is a different barrel.
> 
> I know you don't want another .223, but the important thing to note here is that .223 parts are cheaper (because they are in higher demand) than buying parts that only work with 6.8.


300 BLK all you need is the barrel
6.8SPC you need a new bolt, new barrel and new mags. I know technically you CAN use regular AR mags for 6.8 but they don't feed reliably



bamagun said:


> I already have hunting rifles and I already have a semi in 223 with my mini. I just would like to have something in an AR frame that has some "backbone" to it. It seems like buiding a 10 is going to be outside of what I want to spend so I will have to go with a larger caliber in the 15 frame. I had a buddy of mine mention the 300, so I am going to look into that..


300 is a cool round and offers LOTS of diversity. If you are going to do a 300, don't go any longer than 16" since you won't gain enough performance (IMHO) with any longer. Hell, my 300 is being built on a 9" barrel. You can shoot supers and hit hard at just about any range you'll be shooting game out here, or you can go overboard, get some subs and a can and go hog hunting or just have fun. The brass is just 223 necked up so its already plentiful and its a 30cal bullet so everything about the platform is WIDELY available when it comes to components. 



FrankwT said:


> 6.8 is the best for hunting this area, hogs, deer, yotes, at least then you have a caliber that will perform, lots of bullet choices and fits in your budget.


At anything under 200yds I'll take the 300BLK, but beyond that you are correct. Unfortunately around here I really don't know where you'd be taking a 200+ yard shot at anything but paper. Now if you were out hunting coyotes on some open fields I could see it, but for the gulf coast I'd go with the 300


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Right but the 6.8 out performs the 300 and is the 2nd largest growing chambering in the AR platform behind the 223...the only reason for the 300BO is if you suppress it and then in FL you cannot hunt with it. want the facts go to the http://68forums.com They will have a topic comparing them. Even the Israelis are changing to the 6.8 as a combat round, Federal got the ammo contract. Good luck on your choice

*300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:

*_*Some time ago, Savage announced it would be chambering the Model 10 Precision Carbine in 300 AAC Blackout. Since that time, we have tested many variants of this cartridge in various barrel lengths and rates of twist. *__*This exhaustive testing left us quite unsatisfied with the accuracy we were able to get from the subsonic loads in this chambering.*__* Accuracy with the lighter, faster loads in this caliber was actually quite good. But we believe the real value in this cartridge lies in the use of subsonic loads for suppressed rifles. *__*Therefore we have decided to scrap the project.*_
_*It is our understanding that pushing *__*these heavy, slow bullets presents challenges not found in typical loadings and that our experience is not unique.*__* Subsequently, *__*many in the industry have simply adopted a lower standard for accuracy for these subsonic loads*__*. While this does seem reasonable and we don't criticize any in our industry that have taken this approach, it just won't work for Savage.*_
_*Our brand was built on accuracy and we are too protective of our reputation for building the most accurate factory rifles available. *__*We would rather walk away from this opportunity than sell a product that requires an explanation.*_


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

FrankwT said:


> Right but the 6.8 out performs the 300 and is the 2nd largest growing chambering in the AR platform behind the 223...the only reason for the 300BO is if you suppress it and then in FL you cannot hunt with it. want the facts go to the http://68forums.com They will have a topic comparing them. Even the Israelis are changing to the 6.8 as a combat round, Federal got the ammo contract. Good luck on your choice
> 
> *300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:
> 
> ...


And the 6.5 outperforms the 6.8, so what is your point? I guess I should have suggested he go with the Grendel instead based on that logic. 

So 6.8 is the 2nd largest growing round in the AR behind 223? Where did you get your info from? Some thread on 68forums?

He wants one rifle to do handle a bunch of game and 300 BLK is good for that, plus you can shorten the hell out of it (potentially SBR short) and still get good performance out of it, more than enough to down a deer, hog or coyote. I don't really see the advantage of the 6.8 at the ranges he would see down here. As I said, if he were out in some open flats somewhere taking a 300 yard shot the 6.8 would be my choice. I'd much rather carry around a nice compact rifle that gets plenty of performance to take a hog instead of some 20" monstrosity, so there are other points to the 300 BLK... not just subs and cans

300 BLK is a pointless bolt action round, which is why Savage cancelled it. Putting more than 16" of barrel in front of that bullet does it almost no good whatsoever. Its hilarious every 6.8 fanboy quotes that from Savage when someone starts talking about how good 300 BLK is.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Like I said if he wants performance he will not go to the 300BO, it is only good as a suppressed rd and in FL you cannot hunt that way, might as well have a 30-30. The SBR will cost you for the tax tag and there are many rules for you to follow, buy a 10MM Glock instead. All the 300BO fanboys have never owned a 6.8 or actually know ballistics most don't even use the round properly unless they are suppressed...there are many 300 yd shots in FL. 

BR you are so misinformed it is impossible to even start and school you, please learn ballistics and about different chamberings before embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge.


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

So ugghh Frank, I guess you are a fan of the 6.8?????? You act like someone pushed you down on the playground...:blink:


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

FrankwT said:


> Like I said if he wants performance he will not go to the 300BO, it is only good as a suppressed rd and in FL you cannot hunt that way, might as well have a 30-30. The SBR will cost you for the tax tag and there are many rules for you to follow, buy a 10MM Glock instead. All the 300BO fanboys have never owned a 6.8 or actually know ballistics most don't even use the round properly unless they are suppressed...there are many 300 yd shots in FL.
> 
> BR you are so misinformed it is impossible to even start and school you, please learn ballistics and about different chamberings before embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge.


I own both and still go back to the 300 BLK (not BO) every time I go looking for a hog. Oddly enough your comparison is accurate in that before the 300 BLK I did in fact use a 30-30 lever action. Great little hard hitting round for inside of 200 yards, unless you go for some of the Leverevolution stuff from Hornady (amazing, btw). 10mm is a good little round too, but I am not certain I would trust taking down a big sow with a Glock 20. The 300 BLK does exactly what you want to do with a hog, nothing more and nothing less. I don't know why you keep going back to ballistics numbers when really nothing has been posted comparing the two. A 223 will kill a hog dead just like a 50 Beowulf will, but the bigger bullet is going to have that margin for error. Sure that 6.8 is going to fly faster, but the 300 will leave a larger wound. TBH I was an early adopter of the 6.8 SPC and really don't see the point outside of combat. The 300 is more versatile as far as loads and amount of reloadable material available. 

I don't hunt deer or anything large other than hog with a semi. I have a bolt action rifle for that. Unless someone is going to have one rifle to do everything in their entire life I don't see the point. If I were forced to buy an AR to be a dedicated 100% hunting rifle it would probably be a 6.5


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> So ugghh Frank, I guess you are a fan of the 6.8?????? You act like someone pushed you down on the playground...:blink:


You gotta be careful when putting these two calibers in one thread. Ford v Chevy man...


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## bamagun (Apr 28, 2008)

Haha.. Thanks guys.. Its actually funny watching yall go back and forth.. It is kinda like ford v chevy or bama awbarn.. Funny thing is, this is what I need to hear from folks who shoot the cartridges so I can gain some knowledge from yall.. I am going to wait a few more days possibly weeks before I make my decision so I can try and make the best one possible. For now though, I will go get my popcorn out of the microwave and sit back and watch yall go at it some more.. 

Thanks again..


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## drifterfisher (Oct 9, 2009)

I want to chime in to say the lil 223 will kill most anything around here...I have a mini 14 also,and will not hunt with it.It sucks for accuracy.6" pattern at 50yds.It is my "fun gun" load up some 75rnd drums and bump fire the crap out of it.I do wish it had shot better.


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## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> So ugghh Frank, I guess you are a fan of the 6.8?????? You act like someone pushed you down on the playground...:blink:



That is one of the calibers I use MH. It just amazes me when people come on a forum like BR and spout incorrect info and then don't help others but misinform them of the facts. Everyone can have a favorite rifle and round, like mine is my Ruger .44 carbine, but then I don't come here and dis other rifles and lie about their capabilities whether I am misinformed or doing it on purpose.


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

FrankwT said:


> That is one of the calibers I use MH. It just amazes me when people come on a forum like BR and *spout incorrect info* and then don't help others but misinform them of the facts. Everyone can have a favorite rifle and round, like mine is my Ruger .44 carbine, but then I don't come here and dis other rifles and lie about their capabilities whether I am misinformed or doing it on purpose.


Please tell me what I said that was incorrect


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

??? Which round "6.8 or 300BLK" is better for home defense? Don't throw rocks, just asking...


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## Bottlerocket (Aug 11, 2011)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> ??? Which round "6.8 or 300BLK" is better for home defense? Don't throw rocks, just asking...


300 BLK of course :thumbup:


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## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

MULLET HUNTER said:


> ??? Which round "6.8 or 300BLK" is better for home defense? Don't throw rocks, just asking...


If I had to pick only one, I would go with .300BLK for HD. Keep in mind both are good calibers and can get the job done. However for HD I like SBRs and .300BLK is a very efficient cartridge in an SBR. I have no first hand experience with either cartridge, but .300BLK looks like a good cartridge for social purposes in urban enviroments (technically out to 300m).

6.8 or 6.5 would make a good hunting cartridge to me, but I don't hunt anything other than paper. I'm fine with the current selection of 5.56 ammo. I personally use MK318 and the wound ballistics satisfy me enough to were a caliber change to an intermediate cartridge doesn't justify itself. If I wanted a step up from 5.56 I will go .308. One caveat is that I may try .300BLK on a short suppressed SBR build.


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

I have a 16" 300blk, and I love the weapon. I am currently working on a SBR 9" 300blk, for home defense and playing around. But if I'm gonna hunt deer, hogs, zombies etc, I'm gonna use a 30.06 pump, a 300wsm bolt, a 7mm-08, a .243 bolt, a 223 bolt all scoped. I also have several unscoped hunting rifles. My point is an assault rifle is not designed to be a hunting rifle so why try and turn it into one. I will make a wager with anyone that my 30.06 will kill any animal that you can kill with your black rifle just as dead, crept I won't look like some squirrel blasting around the woods like he is on a mission with Chuck Norris... I guess it's just the ******* in me but it makes you look like an idiot and out of place when your hunting any type game with an assault rifle...


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## MULLET HUNTER (Oct 3, 2007)

Also please don't take this the wrong way 6.8 people, but if the powers that be decided we needed another common soldier round and then dumped all this time and money into the 6.8 round then why the hell are they not using it? I personally like the rounds performance against 556 NATO. It would make a bad ass round for soldiers all over the globe but the just let it go. I was excited pot see pa change. Maybe they figured out hat the 556 round could not be beat for the purposes they needed in general combat. Maybe they didn't want more performance, more damage, more lives lost? Who knows but back when everyone started pushing it so hard I was excited to see what changes it would make in combat, military and law enforcement alike. We as Leo are restricted to only a few certain rounds for rifle ammunition, and if the 6.8 was good enough forthe marines then certainly we would be getting a new caliber. Once all the hype went away intrest went else where and all it left was small companies and joe shit the rag man to market the 6.8 and it has done decent but it will never live up to the hype it once had

The 300blk was kinda slide into the market quietly and since had a strong market push. My opinion of the blackout is that the only role in a combat atmosphere is spec opps as a suppressed heavy bullet comparable to the mp5 in 10mm. The round is great as subsonic, very controllable, very quiet, and a real thumper ballistic wise. On the supersonic side of it you have a very radical bullet with little testing that in my opinion is not very accurate. The long and the short of it is that they are both great platforms that are very versatile and could have had a use in combat but it just wasnt there. Will the calibers survive in the real world? I would say so but it looks like the 556 is hear to stay for some time...


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

Mullet Hunter I thought you were just a ******* that didn't know any thing more then how to put back power and lead bell down a steel pipe and hit the end with a hammer. I think you have put it very will here and fully agree with you, I use a 308 bolt for most my hunting any thing from 0-800 yds one rd fire if I need more I have plenty of time to get another one off. Yes I do like to play with a lot of other things. I don't let other's tell me what is the best for me. I like to shoot *(a lot)* so one of the first things I look at is cost of ammo, thats why I i'm looking it more 22' shooting, It gives me all of the base skills. Just my 2 cents jj


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## GoneCoastal (May 1, 2008)

Cheap 30 cal ammo....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=303987702


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## glassplus (May 6, 2009)

*home defense*

By the way I use a rem. 870 for home defense. It works great I know I have used it before, just ask the ones that was on the other end what they thought. Just my 50 cents jj


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