# Guy in Pcola finding private reefs and selling the numbers for profit



## Water Spout II

I just saw this on the hull truth. Travis Griggs is the owner of a company based in Pcola, Strikelines Charts that is selling private reef numbers. He is going out and finding the reefs both private and charter fisherman paid to have put out and then selling the numbers to the public. I think this is pretty low. I am no advocate for the charter industry but they make their living off of their own spots. The private guys pay their own money for their own spots and this guy is basically stealing that and making a profit on it. Visit their facebook page and website to see more. I think this should be stopped. 

http://strikelinescharts.com/


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## Deeplines

What's a private reef?


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## cody&ryand

he has been doing it for years a d was run off from here a year or so ago


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## Water Spout II

Deeplines said:


> What's a private reef?


You know exactly what it is. I don't care to get into an argument with you over it. Either you think it is okay or don't and I think this is bullsh*t to take something someone else paid for to be placed and sell it at a profit to someone else.


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## Splittine

Here's another dead horse.


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## Water Spout II

well, I wasn't aware of it until today. this guy needs his ass kicked.


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## MillerLight21

Splittine said:


> Here's another dead horse.




I had a dead horse GIF but the thread doesn't want to play ball. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cody&ryand

BullBoxer said:


> well, I wasn't aware of it until today. this guy needs his ass kicked.


well sounds like u r the man to do it lol


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## Water Spout II

If I see his boat around my spots I'll have something to say about.


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## MrFish

Yup, his supporters will pop up soon...


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## Mac1528

Those private reefs your referring to... those aren't the ones that are illegally dumped without permits that you are referring to, correct? I mean there is a person that does have a receipt for this "property" from the person that actually placed it there, right?

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## MrFish

Mac1528 said:


> Those private reefs your referring to... those aren't the ones that are illegally dumped without permits that you are referring to, correct? I mean there is a person that does have a receipt for this "property" from the person that actually placed it there, right?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


If someone is sooo concerned about an illegal reef, then why the fuck would they fish it?? Don't use some moral high ground to steal it from someone and then fish it yourself. If you think illegal reefs are wrong, then you shouldn't be fishing them.


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## lastcast

I fish where I fish. If you wan't to join me, come on over.


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## gameaholic

For $99 I can give you the numbers to the sea buoy. LOL


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## Mac1528

MrFish said:


> If someone is sooo concerned about an illegal reef, then why the fuck would they fish it?? Don't use some moral high ground to steal it from someone and then fish it yourself. If you think illegal reefs are wrong, then you shouldn't be fishing them.


Who mentionef illegal? Not I. But I certainly would like to know what a private reef is that others refer to. Maybe you can me!

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## Mac1528

Mac1528 said:


> Who mentionef illegal? Not I. But I certainly would like to know what a private reef is that others refer to. Maybe you can me!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


Ok I mentioned illegal...a mere slip of the keys. So take the word illegal out and put in the word private. Tell me what that is?

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## Realtor

I still think Kayaks and Canoes, should be registered and pay the associated fees.

lol


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## kanaka

There's NOTHING in the water that's "PRIVATE". You take your chances that when you deploy a structure legal or otherwise, nobody will find it.

If you find a structure that's not public, you aren't gonna mark/fish it cause it might belong to someone else????


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## JoeyWelch

And were off!!


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## JoeyWelch

Mr Fish is the one that got him banned.
Just sayin...


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## Deeplines

MrFish said:


> If someone is sooo concerned about an illegal reef, then why the fuck would they fish it?? .


I deleted your other part of the post because well.. it was just bs justifying something that didn't matter TO ME. 

Yes, I will fish anything that shows up on my fish finder holding fish. I'm not the one who put it that illegally. 

My Character is never in question just fishing it, just putting it there illegally though would be. 

Would I put one there Illegally ... Sure but wouldn't bitch if it was found. Folks not to loaded with common sense would do that though.:no:

*Would I buy #'s? No but you sure seem to worry about other folks. Just go beat his ass. I'm sure you have said you are going or would do it, so go do it and be done with it. *


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## Sea-r-cy

The moment you kick a reef off the deployment vessel, it's public property. :thumbsup:


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## johnsonbeachbum

BullBoxer said:


> You know exactly what it is. I don't care to get into an argument with you over it. Either you think it is okay or don't and I think this is bullsh*t to take something someone else paid for to be placed and sell it at a profit to someone else.


What do you think happens to the log book entries of all the reefs deployed by a professional reef deployment company?


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## Deeplines

BullBoxer said:


> You know exactly what it is. I don't care to get into an argument with you over it. Either you think it is okay or don't and I think this is bullsh*t to take something someone else paid for to be placed and sell it at a profit to someone else.


Do I see a definition of PRIVITE REEF in that post?:whistling:


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## Chris V

I see apples and oranges in this thread. The main point that I think was supposed to have been made was not whether a reef is public or private as much as its pretty unethical to drag around sonar to find spots others paid to put out and then sell them for your own profit.

If someone finds one of my spots, then I pretty much expect them to fish it. That's fine, they found it, enjoy a few fish. However, I cannot see where a moral compass directs someone to search for the contributions others made to our ecosystem and then make money off of said contributions.

I want to know how many reefs he has personally deployed, because if he hasn't added any out of his own pocket, then he has done absolutely nothing but exploit the efforts of others and yes, 100%, that is WRONG


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## lastcast

jlw1972 said:


> Mr Fish is the one that got him banned.
> Just sayin...


I thought it was your other "buddy"!


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## Mac1528

Deeplines said:


> Do I see a definition of PRIVITE REEF in that post?:whistling:


Not me...where is it?? I'm looking but I still can't find it. Oh where oh where did my private reef gooooo oh where oh where can it be....?

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## Downtime2

Chris V said:


> I see apples and oranges in this thread. The main point that I think was supposed to have been made was not whether a reef is public or private as much as its pretty unethical to drag around sonar to find spots others paid to put out and then sell them for your own profit.
> 
> If someone finds one of my spots, then I pretty much expect them to fish it. That's fine, they found it, enjoy a few fish. However, I cannot see where a moral compass directs someone to search for the contributions others made to our ecosystem and then make money off of said contributions.
> 
> I want to know how many reefs he has personally deployed, because if he hasn't added any out of his own pocket, then he has done absolutely nothing but exploit the efforts of others and yes, 100%, that is WRONG



Dead on.


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## Mac1528

Popcorn break....keep going, I'll be back soon.

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## markw4321

Personally I am looking forward to the day that a storm hits large enough to reshuffle the reef deck. Then the number buyers get to pay again.


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## Mac1528

Wow, has anybody seen that moon?

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## AndyS

Chris V said:


> .... its pretty unethical to drag around sonar to find spots others paid to put out and then sell them for your own profit. ....


Some say it's pretty unethical to use your radar to zap the numbers of an unknown spot you see some people fishing & catching on too. But that never happens? Right?


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## Will_R

BullBoxer said:


> If I see his boat around my spots I'll have something to say about.












You beware any large wooden badgers you see. Stay safe out there.

What are you going to do if he's wearing ear buds and can't hear you or *gasp* just ignores you?


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## markw4321

AndyS said:


> Some say it's pretty unethical to use your radar to zap the numbers of an unknown spot you see some people fishing & catching on too. But that never happens? Right?


Well you never know when you might zap Griggs on one of his "private numbers" so you have to keep the radar turning hot in case you get the chance. 

As late as 10- 15 years ago it was bad form to point your bow at some one and run close by them if they were fishing on a spot. Proper courtesy was to let them fish and arc around them. Ha


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## Chris V

AndyS said:


> Some say it's pretty unethical to use your radar to zap the numbers of an unknown spot you see some people fishing & catching on too. But that never happens? Right?


Please explain how this reply has anything to do with the subject at hand or my comment that you quoted.


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## Chris V

AndyS said:


> Some say it's pretty unethical to use your radar to zap the numbers of an unknown spot you see some people fishing & catching on too. But that never happens? Right?


Ok then.....do you do it? Do you use your radar to "zap" people? I can honestly say I never have and I've never been in a boat that has. We generally have our own spots. Your reply almost suggests that it's ok in a sense to pull sonar to find others spots to sell because those who share strikelines screwed up ways use their radar. Neither is acceptable etiquette and neither should be done in return for profit.


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## Downtime2

AndyS said:


> Some say it's pretty unethical to use your radar to zap the numbers of an unknown spot you see some people fishing & catching on too. But that never happens? Right?


Had every opportunity many a time, haven't done it yet. Like the deflection attempt though.


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## Burnt Drag

Downtime2 said:


> Dead on.


Damn Skippy!


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## nextstep




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## Chris V

Downtime2 said:


> Had every opportunity many a time, haven't done it yet. Like the deflection attempt though.


Yeah, I'm still trying to think of how this was a defense or offense to any argument regarding strikelines. Speculation on what someone "might" do (I'm sure some do of course) vs something someone IS doing, doing publicly and doing for a profit without any contribution himself.

As to the comment about hurricanes moving structures and the irony of the same guys having to buy them back; they won't. They will put out new structures like they always have. 

If Travis wants to truly justify his business, then he should be providing proof of all of the structures he himself has paid for and deployed and publish those structures on his maps


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## Will_R

Chris V said:


> Ok then.....do you do it? Do you use your radar to "zap" people? I can honestly say I never have and I've never been in a boat that has. We generally have our own spots. Your reply almost suggests that it's ok in a sense to pull sonar to find others spots to sell because those who share strikelines screwed up ways use their radar. Neither is acceptable etiquette and neither should be done in return for profit.


So where's the ethics or etiquette line crossed? Which of these scenarios would you have a bigger problem with:

1) Every recreational boat was set up to drag around a nice $70k towfish and could find and fish anything they drove by.
2) Travis or someone else was finding these spots and posting them publicly for everyone to enjoy for free.


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## Splittine

Now this is a throw back PFF thread. Keep at it girls before Daddy Downtime locks it.


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## Chris V

Will_R said:


> So where's the ethics or etiquette line crossed? Which of these scenarios would you have a bigger problem with:
> 
> 1) Every recreational boat was set up to drag around a nice $70k towfish and could find and fish anything they drove by.
> 2) Travis or someone else was finding these spots and posting them publicly for everyone to enjoy for free.


Ummm....they'd all be a problem.....??? I'm not following what you're getting at. I'm trying to feel the context you wrote this in. 

If im getting it a little though....the ethics line is crossed when you build a business based off of selling what others paid to build.

What if those who built reefs stopped deploying? Would Strikelines exist? Natural bottom can be found on most public charts or google earth. So....does he need others to spend their money so he can pocket his?


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## markw4321

Chris V said:


> As to the comment about hurricanes moving structures and the irony of the same guys having to buy them back; they won't. They will put out new structures like they always have.
> 
> s


I should have been more clear. When a hurricane hits larger enough to move or cover the smaller reefs I was attempting to convey that the "number buyers" who don't deploy there own reefs would have to pay again to obtain some fishable numbers that are not already published.


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## Chris V

I just want to know how many reefs he has deployed himself? Where is his contribution?


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## Chris V

markw4321 said:


> I should have been more clear. When a hurricane hits larger enough to move or cover the smaller reefs I was attempting to convey that the "number buyers" would have to pay again to obtain some fishable numbers that are not lready published.


Ok, gotcha!


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## Wharf Rat

Let me know if you lost the number to your "private" spot, probably got it for you.


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## Will_R

Chris V said:


> Ummm....they'd all be a problem.....??? I'm not following what you're getting at. I'm trying to feel the context you wrote this in.
> 
> If im getting it a little though....the ethics line is crossed when you build a business based off of selling what others paid to build.
> 
> What if those who built reefs stopped deploying? Would Strikelines exist? Natural bottom can be found on most public charts or google earth. So....does he need others to spend their money so he can pocket his?


I'm just being curious. I disagree with your position, but I respect your opinion.

BTW, "they're all bad" is a dodge to the question "which is worse?" 

Does Strikelines even scan inside the permit zones? Honest question. I don't know.

Ok, how about this one. Both Florida and Alabama publish public reef numbers in horrible to use/manage data formats. America Go Fishing sells the Escambia public numbers for $35 in a readily usable GPX format. Are they equally in the wrong as Strikelines?


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## Chris V

Wharf Rat said:


> Let me know if you lost the number to your "private" spot, probably got it for you.


No need, I'll just zap someone with radar and take theirs!!! :thumbup:


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## Chris V

Will_R said:


> I'm just being curious. I disagree with your position, but I respect your opinion.
> 
> BTW, "they're all bad" is a dodge to the question "which is worse?"
> 
> Does Strikelines even scan inside the permit zones? Honest question. I don't know.
> 
> Ok, how about this one. Both Florida and Alabama publish public reef numbers in horrible to use/manage data formats. America Go Fishing sells the Escambia public numbers for $35 in a readily usable GPX format. Are they equally in the wrong as Strikelines?


I'm definitely not "dodgy" but it was very "what if" and that doesn't really compute here. I promise I'm not being ugly about this either even though context can be hard to convey through typing.

I honestly couldn't say between those two scenarios provided which is worse. Both would be an exploitation of other's contribution. I just can't really say which is worse.

Those public numbers sold are exactly that, public. Tax and licensing money paid for them, so they belong to everyone. I'm not sure what you mean about the format. They should provide GPS coordinates. If you're willing to pay for public spots, than so be it even though a little more research would save dough.


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## DreamWeaver21

Chris V said:


> I see apples and oranges in this thread. The main point that I think was supposed to have been made was not whether a reef is public or private as much as its pretty unethical to drag around sonar to find spots others paid to put out and then sell them for your own profit.
> 
> If someone finds one of my spots, then I pretty much expect them to fish it. That's fine, they found it, enjoy a few fish. However, I cannot see where a moral compass directs someone to search for the contributions others made to our ecosystem and then make money off of said contributions.
> 
> I want to know how many reefs he has personally deployed, because if he hasn't added any out of his own pocket, then he has done absolutely nothing but exploit the efforts of others and yes, 100%, that is WRONG


:thumbsup:


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## Chris V

Damn! How'd y'all suck me into this shit!?!?! I usually avoid these topics like the plague!


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## spike

kanaka said:


> There's NOTHING in the water that's "PRIVATE".


Red Snapper and Trigger fish are rapidly becoming private.


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## MrFish

Chris V said:


> Damn! How'd y'all suck me into this shit!?!?! I usually avoid these topics like the plague!


Y'all must be slow tonight.:yes:


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## snakeeater

Yeah!!! And don't go breathing my private air, either!!!

Seriously??? A "private" reef in the ocean??? I thought I'd heard it all, but obviously not. WTF,O?


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## Chris V

snakeeater said:


> Yeah!!! And don't go breathing my private air, either!!!
> 
> Seriously??? A "private" reef in the ocean??? I thought I'd heard it all, but obviously not. WTF,O?


Do you really eat snakes?


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## MillerLight21




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## MrFish

snakeeater said:


> Yeah!!! And don't go breathing my private air, either!!!
> 
> Seriously??? A "private" reef in the ocean??? I thought I'd heard it all, but obviously not. WTF,O?


It's not the ocean, it's the Gulf.


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## Chris V

MrFish said:


> It's not the ocean, it's the Gulf.


Did you just assume it's race?


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## tbaxl

I'm not defending Travis, but he is putting in the time to find the reefs and when he started they were only illegal, i.e. Rees not deployed in the approved dump area, if that has changes so what. I will admit it I am a reef thief, when ever I find something on my sonar when moving I mark it, legal or not. I am proud that those so against an enterprising business are morally superior. One last thing, he is evidently supplying ultra hd scans to the chart companies, for a fee, so you may be furthering his endeavor along. You never know, maybe one just to tick you guys off he will put all his numbers on the net for free.


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## Chris V

tbaxl said:


> I'm not defending Travis, but he is putting in the time to find the reefs and when he started they were only illegal, i.e. Rees not deployed in the approved dump area, if that has changes so what. I will admit it I am a reef thief, when ever I find something on my sonar when moving I mark it, legal or not. I am proud that those so against an enterprising business are morally superior. One last thing, he is evidently supplying ultra hd scans to the chart companies, for a fee, so you may be furthering his endeavor along. You never know, maybe one just to tick you guys off he will put all his numbers on the net for free.


Someone most likely already will/is and I'll support it. I asked multiple times, how has he contributed? He sells plenty of legal reefs that others paid for. 

If you find my spot, fish it!!! That had NEVER been an issue in this whole conversation!!! Nobody ever said you shouldn't fish a spot you find!! If it's my spot, you found it, you fish it, oh well!!! I could care less, but don't go selling what you didn't pay for. Keep it for your own benefit and have a snapper dinner on whoever put it down. 

I just want to say, I have zero issue with any of you guys who disagree with me or those who are against what strikelines does, but I just can't fathom how you don't see the issue with a guy who likes to pocket money off of others pockets without dropping a few to the bottom himself.


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## jred

I'm gonna stir the pot on this one....

If he is burning his own gas, using his own equipment and his time finding the reefs on his own then he has put in the time and money to sell a product. Now if he is following boats out and watching them fish, then thats a different story. 

Whats the difference between what he is doing and what a prospector does looking for gold or other minerals? He is researching the area and then selling the information to make a profit so that others can utilize those resources. 

I'm tired of everybody in America feeling "entitled" over things that are available to all. The Gulf is a public area. If you don't like it then buy a land locked lake and fish. This is America where the idea of Capitalism/Freedom exists or at least used to before people got their feelings hurt.


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## Downtime2

Entitled? They paid for the deployments. They paid for the reefs. Did he? He only preys on other peoples work. Entitled my ass.
Real easy to say that if you don't have any skin in the game.


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## Chris V

Most of your reply JRed is what has been said plenty. No pot stirring there, but then you said something that I'm baffled by; entitled.

It isn't the word, it's the context in which it's used considering I have to assume you're in favor/defense of strikelines "mission". This word is oxymoronic here. You're saying that guys who pay for their spots are ridiculous for feeling a sense of "first right" to the ecosystem that develops on said spot? Nobody has complained about someone finding their spot, that is not what this is about!!! It's been said already. So where does that term "entitled" fit in to this debate?

I honestly am curious.


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## Chris V

Alright, I'm off this one. Y'all enjoy the rest of the debate. I respect the opinions but it's gotten back to a stalemate again


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## Realtor

oxymoronic -- had to look that one up... Thanks...


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## Chris V

Realtor said:


> oxymoronic -- had to look that one up... Thanks...


Just doing my civic duty


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## shrapnel

Stay off my ocean!


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## Boat-Dude

Chris V said:


> Just doing my civic duty



Well done Billy Jack!


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## Will_R

Chris V said:


> I'm definitely not "dodgy" but it was very "what if" and that doesn't really compute here. I promise I'm not being ugly about this either even though context can be hard to convey through typing.
> 
> I honestly couldn't say between those two scenarios provided which is worse. Both would be an exploitation of other's contribution. I just can't really say which is worse.


I didn't think you were being ugly. It was just my way of saying you either hadn't answered the question or if you had I didn't realize it. Now you have. I'd figured you'd be able to choose between the two. So it seems, I'm assuming, that your biggest problem is the profit being made. Well, I'm sure you find tons of injustices and unethical things in the world through that perspective. Then you go an completely discount Travis's time, labor, expenses and knowledge put into the process of scanning the floor and writing software to then analyze those scans and claim he's contributed nothing when he's adding convenience for people that don't want to or don't know how to do all that themselves.



Chris V said:


> Those public numbers sold are exactly that, public. Tax and licensing money paid for them, so they belong to everyone. I'm not sure what you mean about the format. They should provide GPS coordinates. If you're willing to pay for public spots, than so be it even though a little more research would save dough.


Not all of them are paid for fully by taxes and licenses. Many are sponsored by businesses, clubs/organizations, and individuals who are essentially gifting them to the public. And the states manage that data and how it gets out to the public. And they do an absolutely horrible job at it. They slap it into a PDF file that breaks all to crap when you try to copy and paste. So sure there's a few hundred numbers directly from government websites, but they all have to be typed in by hand. FL/America Go Fishing sells the convenience of a GPX or KML file that actually works (at least I'm assuming theirs work, as I haven't purchased any) and saves the consumer the time and hassle of data entry.

Strikelines is little different IMO. He provides a service that saves someone else time. And I think he even offers a "If you think you see your private reef on my map for sale, contact me and I'll remove it." policy. Also, a charter that happens upon a spot they didn't place and brings customers out to fish it is little different.

At least he's straightforward about what he does and never claims to be setting these reefs himself AFAIK. More ethical than any company slapping Assembled in USA or Made with whatever "origin" stickers on their products to confuse customers.

I've never bought anything from Travis, but I have fished with friends on spots he's sold. One of them was we think a big pile of tires. Definitely not a permitted reef put out anytime recently. Just someone that took their garbage out on the gulf and dumped it.

All I know is I've come to terms with whatever ethical failings I have when it comes to Strikelines. Anything that's put out in public with a chance of someone seeing it is bound to eventually be seen, so I have no problem with him continuing to do exactly what he's been doing.


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## Will_R

Chris V said:


> He sells plenty of legal reefs that others paid for.


Can you prove this? Or link to proof of it?

Edit: Nevermind, checked the map and he has plenty of spots for sale in both the EW-LARS and the EE-LARS. People that have something near those and want to try to protect them might as well contact him.


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## jvalhenson

I've seen the question asked but not answered but maybe I messed it.....so does he find and sell legally deployed reefs or only reefs outside the designated zone? Always thought it was only illegal reefs and other structure outside the "private" zone that he was selling?


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## MrFish

> And I think he even offers a "If you think you see your private reef on my map for sale, contact me and I'll remove it." policy.
> 
> 
> 
> If he's pulling and looking for illegal reefs, then why would he offer this?
Click to expand...


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## Chris V

Well worded Will. I shortcutted what I meant by how reefs are paid for. Both shops I've worked in have sponsored some of those reefs. 

The states (or at least Al) used to put out a published book of public numbers but they seem to have stopped publishing that so I wasn't aware of their terrible delivery lol

I agree he's straight forward. That's a plus I suppose, but if he is selling spots others put down (which you know there are some) than I think some of his profits should go to contribution in the form of deployed reefs.

The whole world is full of unethical behavior. You got that right for sure. I do my best not to screw my fellow man and that's all I can do. Can I sleep at night with all this spot selling craziness going on? Like a baby, but sometimes we all get ruffled and feel like debating and here I was....lol


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## Will_R

jvalhenson said:


> I've seen the question asked but not answered but maybe I messed it.....so does he find and sell legally deployed reefs or only reefs outside the designated zone? Always thought it was only illegal reefs and other structure outside the "private" zone that he was selling?


Yes. He just put up a bunch of new spots for 2017 a couple weeks ago. Looks like at least 20 are in the permit areas. They're marked on his map.


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## jred

Nevermind

I'll save it for the political forum.


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## markw4321

Seems his business model has changed to include legally deployed permitted reefs.


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## Will_R

Chris V said:


> Well worded Will. I shortcutted what I meant by how reefs are paid for. Both shops I've worked in have sponsored some of those reefs.
> 
> The states (or at least Al) used to put out a published book of public numbers but they seem to have stopped publishing that so I wasn't aware of their terrible delivery lol


I'm gonna try to put my simplistic view into perspective that makes it EASY for me to support Strikelines doing what it does. Other than a vigilante sinking his boat while he's out there scanning their spot, who's gonna stop him? Government. Well, IMHO, government can screw up just about anything and their solutions are often worse than whatever problem they were tasked to solve. He's just a guy making money off selling information. Stopping him would amount to censorship in my view. And I'm not a fan.


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## jred

Chris V said:


> Most of your reply JRed is what has been said plenty. No pot stirring there, but then you said something that I'm baffled by; entitled.
> 
> It isn't the word, it's the context in which it's used considering I have to assume you're in favor/defense of strikelines "mission". This word is oxymoronic here. You're saying that guys who pay for their spots are ridiculous for feeling a sense of "first right" to the ecosystem that develops on said spot? Nobody has complained about someone finding their spot, that is not what this is about!!! It's been said already. So where does that term "entitled" fit in to this debate?
> 
> I honestly am curious.


I was referring entitled to the ones who are mad at him for finding a supply and demand of information in exchange for money based off of things that he finds on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico in Public Waters.


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## Chris V

jred said:


> I was referring entitled to the ones who are mad at him for finding a supply and demand of information in exchange for money based off of things that he finds on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico in Public Waters.


Both yours and Will R's last comments have some reasoning for sure. Just two sides to every coin. Ehhh.....it's just one of those things that'll never have a neutral field. It'll either bother or appeal


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## markw4321

jred said:


> I was referring entitled to the ones who are mad at him for finding a supply and demand of information in exchange for money based off of things that he finds on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico in Public Waters.


You mean entitled people that spend their own money and time to legally permit a reef and deploy it.


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## Will_R

markw4321 said:


> Seems his business model has changed to include legally deployed permitted reefs.


The LARS are no longer safe spaces.


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## jred

Chris V said:


> Both yours and Will R's last comments have some reasoning for sure. Just two sides to every coin. Ehhh.....it's just one of those things that'll never have a neutral field. It'll either bother or appeal


So much for saving it for the political thread.

You are correct there are two sides to every coin. Do I think its rude what he is doing? Yes. 
Am I against it? No.

We are not entitled to holding any type of information once it is in the public domain. Prime example is garbage. Police can go through your garbage once its off your property. I am for America and Freedom as long as he isn't breaking any laws that is just his business.


----------



## markw4321

What about the negative impact on legal reef placement which contributes to the health of the fishery?


----------



## Will_R

markw4321 said:


> You mean entitled people that spend their own money and time to legally permit a reef and deploy it.


Since you said (then edited out, so you might have been joking) you've had reefs deployed, I wanted to ask. We looked into it a little, and it seemed like the entry cost is about $2,500 for the smallest artificial reef possible once everything is added up. With a decent grouper module upwards of close to $10k. Am I missing something and way off the mark or are those realistic figures for placing your own?

If anyone is discouraging me from deploying my own artificial reef, it's sure as hell not Travis but the state of Florida and the federal government making it ridiculously expensive, tons of red tape, and at the end of it the reef pretty much belongs to them with the "good faith" that they won't change their minds and release the coordinates later publicly.


----------



## markw4321

Will_R said:


> Since you said (then edited out, so you might have been joking) you've had reefs deployed, I wanted to ask. We looked into it a little, and it seemed like the entry cost is about $2,500 for the smallest artificial reef possible once everything is added up. With a decent grouper module upwards of close to $10k. Am I missing something and way off the mark or are those realistic figures for placing your own?
> 
> If anyone is discouraging me from deploying my own artificial reef, it's sure as hell not Travis but the state of Florida and the federal government making it ridiculously expensive, tons of red tape, and at the end of it the reef pretty much belongs to them with the "good faith" that they won't change their minds and release the coordinates later publicly.


No where near that cost. A legally permitted chicken coop could be deployed for $300 bucks if you have a pontoon boat to tow it. This is how we did it a few years back in the LAARs. Won't bother again I can assure you.


----------



## Will_R

markw4321 said:


> No where near that cost. A legally permitted chicken coop could be deployed for $300 bucks if you have a pontoon boat to tow it. This is how we did it a few years back in the LAARs. Won't bother again I can assure you.
> View attachment 868122


Then I'm completely lost it seems. The permit alone is $250 is it not? And I thought chicken coops would violate the exposed steel minimum thickness sizes.

Maybe I'm wrong and the people most discouraging artificial reef placements are the people trying to sell pyramids and such. Because their listed prices are nuts and completely turn off us newbies thinking about setting our own.


----------



## markw4321

Will_R said:


> Then I'm completely lost it seems. The permit alone is $250 is it not? And I thought chicken coops would violate the exposed steel minimum thickness sizes.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong and the people most discouraging artificial reef placements are the people trying to sell pyramids and such. Because their listed prices are nuts and completely turn off us newbies thinking about setting our own.


Capt Mike a member here will deploy a reef legally his costs are included in this thread.

But why bother with that. When someone legally deploys a reef wait for Travis to find it and pay him $190 be cheaper that way.

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f25/chicken-coops-sale-reefs-566345/


----------



## JoeyWelch

Damn. Can't believe I missed all this. 
.

.

. Thanks


----------



## delta dooler

Heading out tomorrow night with 16 washing machines.......anybody wanna help throw em over?


----------



## cody&ryand

delta dooler said:


> Heading out tomorrow night with 16 washing machines.......anybody wanna help throw em over?


only if we are throwing them in the bay lol


----------



## SurfRidr

Double and triple standards are rampant when it comes to bottom structure in the Bay or Gulf. I found something on the bottom while tooling along this past summer that had fish on it. I came back to fish it and caught and released some undersized snapper, but my 4 year old thought it was fun to see fish come to the boat. I didn't deploy it. I don't know if anyone deployed it or it's natural, or illegal dumping, or a boat that got sunk in a storm. I didn't actually care. Some guy in a fish-n-ski came and did 3 laps, throwing a wake while I watched him punch numbers on his GPS and then roared off. No doubt he'll be back. He probably sold that number to a buddy for 20 bucks.

By the logic of this thread I don't know which one of us should be tied to stake and burned for heresy. Me for finding and fishing it, the guy for "stealing" it (sarcasm intended since it's not my property), or the guy he sold the coordinates to for bringing his next door neighbor out to fish it, who probably marked it himself.

I personally wouldn't charge people money for the location of something I ran over with my Lowrance, but until you want to have more regulations imposed about anything on the bottom being the property of government and thus subject to legal recourse, this whole discussion is actually pretty pointless.


----------



## Chapman5011

BullBoxer said:


> well, I wasn't aware of it until today. this guy needs his ass kicked.


You want to beat his ass for having a super duper fish finder, and then using capitalism to make a dollar?


----------



## Mac1528

If this keeps up it will make it to 100. Here's #94 look in at ya! I can't believe there's nothing better to do at 2:40am!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## ghost95

This all won't matter soon because I'm going to buy the list and then go hook a lift bag the reefs and drag them to new locations. Then they will be mine and you all have to stay away.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## Sea-r-cy

Have you ever considered, all the "permitted" reefs are supposed to have their coordinates recorded by the "government". Now, how many of those numbers get fished by our officials and their cronies? Probably more than you think.

Secondly, Travis spends a huge amount of money renting/buying the sidescan, and I'm sure has used a bunch of fuel. It's not all profit. He's putting time and money in his venture.


----------



## Stoker1

post the link where he’s selling.

Post #97 and 10 pages strong


----------



## snakeeater

Chris V said:


> Do you really eat snakes?


Used to...just the venom, though. Now I'm strictly catch and release.:thumbup:


----------



## sealark

I didn't want to say anything BUT I will. I have only been fishing and diving a couple years. When I first saw strikelines selling spots I was pissed. But if you think about it nothing out there is a secret spot for any amount of time. Ok lets see why, GPS, side view sonar, Radar, Hell any boat with a good Radar can pinpoint a boat miles away and pick his GPS numbers. I find 2 or 3 spots almost every time I go out that it is nice and calm. If I am running out and see a boat fishing a half mile ahead I take a bearing to him and mark my spot on return trip just run that bearing from the GPS spot. There are so many spots you can't fish them all out. The only way to control it is outlaw GPS on fishing boats like it was back in the 60s before loran C and GPS. Using Loran C will confuse most fishermen for a while. I wish the good old day of using beach cuts was here again. But you can wish in one hand a shit in the other, You know the rest.


----------



## Mac1528

Here here Ron!! Well said. Headed to the keys next year for Sea Base with my scouts, will turn out some Eagles just after that.

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## submariner

*DUh*

When you said years, did you mean decades ??



sealark said:


> I didn't want to say anything BUT I will. I have only been fishing and diving a couple years. .


----------



## MrFish

You spend a lot of time scouting Blackwater, or any public land, looking for that perfect opening day spot. You put out trail cams, spend your gas driving out and many hours fighting skeeters and snakes. You put in the hard work. 2 days before opening day, a guy wanders around and marks all the spots and sells them to lazy hunters. They get there before you and set up in the spot that you put all the work in. Is it illegal? Nope. Is it right?


----------



## Snagged Line

sealark said:


> I didn't want to say anything BUT I will. I have only been fishing and diving a couple years.





I've deployed a few Anchors over the years with plans to return and fish them once they become Habitat only to find they have been either Moved or Removed by someone???.......................Dang Poachers!!!.........:whistling:


----------



## sealark

submariner said:


> When you said years, did you mean decades ??


Hey Ed be quiet you will blow my cover. Actually it's over a half century.


----------



## sealark

Snagged Line said:


> I've deployed a few Anchors over the years with plans to return and fish them once they become Habitat only to find they have been either Moved or Removed by someone???.......................Dang Poachers!!!.........:whistling:


I probably have them all here now. 8 lbs $10 13 lb $15 chain 1$ a ft. Free shackles or splice with anchor and chain. Put your name and phone on them and poor mouth and cry a little and MAYBE I'll give it back free.


----------



## AndyS

Chris V said:


> Ok then.....do you do it? Do you use your radar to "zap" people?


Well, I don't have a radar, so ya don't have to worry 'bout that. I just wander around with my $400 gps/fishfinder I have to squint at to see & hope I find some fish somewheres other than the heavily fished public numbers. Sorry if that happens to be one that you "own." I guess I didn't see your no-trespassing sign. I s'pose if I could afford high-end electronics for my boat _(like a lot of folk who can afford to put out "private" reefs)_ I'd find even more non-public spots. How unfair that some folks can afford better bottom finding gear than me! There oughta be a law to keep them from doing that? Ya think? What we need is more gubbmint to limit these kind of technologies!

Have I been zapped ... a few times I thought so, and one time I'm certain of it. Did I cry & whine about it? Well, so long as they didn't "wake" me in the process of checking out how my fishing was going ... no.

I suppose I could put my own "_private"_ reef out, but thanks to government regulations that make that kind of unaffordable for less-well-to-do folk anymore, that ain't gonna happen. And I don't need a court appearance and a big huge fine for putting out an "illegal" reef .... I actually met a fella one time who got one.

Point being .... you're trying to fight new technologies here. It's not the same as somebody running across your lines while you're trolling or other bad-behavior on the water like that. If there's a new technology available .... somebody's gonna use it & try to make dime off of it. I think everybody just needs to calm the * down about this kinda stuff. (people complaining about drones over the water is next .... just wait & see)

I used to crappie fish a lot of lakes where people put brush piles down. Xmas trees & etc. At some of those lakes if you asked around a bit there was sometimes some kid at the marina who would sell ya some brush-pile numbers for ten or twenty bucks. Never bought any myself as I had no problem finding people's brush piles ... and apparently people had no problem finding mine!

* What do you want? A law? * Great ... just what we need .... more fishing/boating laws :blink: Or you wanna beat somebody's *** as someone else indicated? Well, I recommend they don't post their premeditation on here then 'cause _"anything you say can & may ......"_
_
(there, that oughta stir this thread up some more! And now I'm headed to my super secret spot at the beach for some surf/yak fishing. Don't zap me bro!)_


----------



## Realtor

Realtor said:


> I still think Kayaks and Canoes, should be registered and pay the associated fees.
> 
> lol


use the finds from this to buy and deploy more reefs??? wadda ya thing Bhahhaha:thumbup: good morning everyone!!!!


----------



## Chris V

Awww hell with it lol. I just deleted what I typed because this thread is so off subject, replies to things others haven't even said, etc , etc. Ya'll have fun.


----------



## Realtor

why delete what you said, it was your opinion, right? good lord, I have about a THOUSAND spots in my GPS some good, some not so good, some Public stuff (its all public) and some that I'm sure someone paid to put out there. (Pile of tires, 10K built reef, Rocks, Ship, washing machines) ) I found it, marked it, and yes, I fish it from time to time.... BTW in full disclosure.... "I have never bought a reef, I have never paid to deploy a reef, I don't even know what the blob on my Garmin is down there, but there may be fish above it. Thanks. If you want a copy of my spots, I'll sell then to you for 100 Bucks. That's 10 cents each..... lol


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## Boat-Dude

When are we gonna talk about crab traps?







_________________________________________________________________________________
_Last edited by Chris V; Today at 09:48 AM._


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## AndyS

Pier-Dude said:


> When are we gonna talk about crab traps?
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________
> _Last edited by Chris V; Today at 09:48 AM._


Why? Ya need some numbers? PM me & I'm sure we can work something out. :whistling: :shifty:
_
(why does your post say it was edited by "Chris V"?)_


----------



## MrFish

Wonder when he'll start selling numbers to FAD'S.


----------



## need2fish

BullBoxer said:


> well, I wasn't aware of it until today. this guy needs his ass kicked.


Is it unethical to market/sell the TV rights for this fight? I'm just asking for a friend.


----------



## Hook

gameaholic said:


> For $99 I can give you the numbers to the sea buoy. LOL


Which one :devil2:


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## JoeyWelch

I think everyone is wrong!
Cept me..


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## jvalhenson

Numbers inside the permit zone I understand the anger but since it's all public only partially agree. Anything outside the permit zone whether it was placed illegally, natural, wreck, or moved by storm whatever I have no problem at all with


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## polar21

^This guy has not paid for a reef to be deployed


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## polar21

If folks did not partake in the artificial reef program, would the fishery be sustainable?

(Hint: This is partially the basis for the argument for the snapper data)


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## delta dooler

If we were to go back to the good ol Loran A days this wouldn't even be an issue, half of the crap sitting on the bottom of the "ocean" wouldn't ever be found again once it was sunk.....


----------



## jvalhenson

polar21 said:


> ^This guy has not paid for a reef to be deployed


Nope and never will. Won't buy any either to easy to find myself ha.


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## Spoolin Up

What's the fuss all about? All the gulf belongs to the commercial guys anyway, at least that's what I read on here 

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk


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## SouthernAngler

Disclaimer: I'm not condoning the business this is simply something to ponder. 

Everyone is so quick to judge the guy selling the numbers but nowhere in this moral pissing contest did anyone question the ethics of the consumer. 

What if he has an epiphany and shuts his business down, then what happens? Say the money the people were spending on these privately owned public water coordinates was then spent on top of the line radar equipment. Instead of having one guy doing it and selling the numbers to cover expenses you have every weekend warrior out there stealing your "private" spots. Where does your moral compass direct you then?

Do I agree with what he is doing? No. Is it wrong? Yes. He is exploiting a public natural resource for private monetary gain. One post said it was the convenience which to me just points to laziness. Lucky for said business owner people are lazy and want instant gratification without having to put forth any effort


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## Chris V

AndyS said:


> Why? Ya need some numbers? PM me & I'm sure we can work something out. :whistling: :shifty:
> 
> _(why does your post say it was edited by "Chris V"?)_


I was curious about this myself considering I'm not a moderator....???

Moderators? 

Realtor, I deleted it because I got about halfway through and just didn't feel like it anymore lol. 

Look, everybody is entitled to their opinion and I don't think any differently of anyone for theirs differing from mine. I was just over the topic I guess.


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## MrFish

Chris V said:


> I was curious about this myself considering I'm not a moderator....???
> 
> Moderators?
> 
> Realtor, I deleted it because I got about halfway through and just didn't feel like it anymore lol.
> 
> Look, everybody is entitled to their opinion and I don't think any differently of anyone for theirs differing from mine. I was just over the topic I guess.


The font is different. Looks like he put it as a signature or added the line. Pretty convincing.


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## Boat-Dude

lol


----------



## MrFish

I was also wondering how in the hell Chris V got made a moderator! He doesn't even know how to use the "like" button!:whistling:


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## Chris V

MrFish said:


> I was also wondering how in the hell Chris V got made a moderator! He doesn't even know how to use the "like" button!:whistling:


Exactly! I'd be a terrible moderator. I hear the pay is complete garbage too. probably why we have the group of mods we have today. Only those schmucks would do this job for crap pay.


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## Boat-Dude

All the people that can't fish they make moderators. haha


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## Telum Pisces

Dang if I had an integrated radar, I'd zap the mess out of people. If I had the money and time to drag a sonar buoy around to find spots I'd do that too! 

But then when would I fish with all the time finding spots.


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## Billybob+

Don't know if anyone's raised this point yet or not....and much like Chris V, I'm not sure why I'm allowing myself to be drug into this debate but if so many think everything out there is public and with cell phones the way they are, how would everyone feel about going on a friends boat ....or a charter....hitting a good spot and simply marking it in your phone?...heck....then for that matter offer it for sale.....make a buck or two!


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## snake 166

Modern electronics have taken much of the skill out of find and holding up on spots. Cheap side scan will just about put the nail in the coffin on skippers deploying their own reefs. So the long term impact of hunting down/selling reef coordinates deployed outside the permitted areas will be fewer reefs and fewer fish.


----------



## AndyS

Chris V said:


> I was curious about this myself considering I'm not a moderator....???
> 
> Moderators?
> 
> Realtor, I deleted it because I got about halfway through and just didn't feel like it anymore lol.
> 
> Look, everybody is entitled to their opinion and I don't think any differently of anyone for theirs differing from mine. I was just over the topic I guess.


I should probably be a little more circumspect myself. I know I run off at the mouth sometimes. I can type about as fast as I can think .... and that's not always a good thing! I really don't have a dog in this fight anyway seeing as how I have no "private" reefs and dont buy numbers. What I do have though is opinions. Lots of em. But hey, everybody's got those. Just like everybody's got an *******.


----------



## Mac1528

I just wish Travis could have a shot to answer all the things said in favor of or opposed to, his business. But oh well, guess we can call him and see what his opinion is.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## JoeyWelch

Mac1528 said:


> I just wish Travis could have a shot to answer all the things said in favor of or opposed to, his business. But oh well, guess we can call him and see what his opinion is.....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


He had his chance.


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## MrFish

jlw1972 said:


> He had his chance.


Then Joey pulled some strings and got him the ban hammer....:clapping:


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## Mac1528

Rut row...sounds like I hit a sorespot here, I better shut my mouth afore I get the hammer.... zipit!

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## sealark

I need a vis report, gotta go find more spots.


----------



## Spoolin Up

Mac1528 said:


> I just wish Travis could have a shot to answer all the things said in favor of or opposed to, his business. But oh well, guess we can call him and see what his opinion is.....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


Don't know the guy personally, but I don't think he cares....someone is laughing all the way to the bank. Pretty sure the mapping thing is a side job/hobby of his. 

This guy is offering a service/ don't buy from him, obviously somebody will. 

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk


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## WhyMe

I'm not to sure on what to make of this thread/post. True the waters are public property and with that if my bottom machine marks it, I'm going to save those numbers and fish it. 
Now I am going to make more Popcorn.


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## Badbagger

Comical, comes up once a year and gets beat to death. IMHO, there are no truly private reefs. Travis provides a services and does very well. He's got a hell of and investment in equipment which is top notch. None of which pertains to the discussion I know. If I mark several structures and do very well, I'm happy indeed. If I put a few coops down and continue to do well even better. Invariably one way or the other word gets out and it is what it is. It's not my intellectual property while I may own the coops but not one piece of the bottom of the Gulf. If I don't like it, I can pickup my equipment and move it. Don't think for a minute that anyone with a cheap radar can't take your numbers. This is no different than the guy on THT selling a set of 3,000 numbers to what's got to be well over 100 people by now. This will come back again in about a year lol. No laws are being broken and as usual, a line of people get their panties in a wad. Get over it.


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## MrFish

So we only go by what's illegal. Gotcha. Fuck morals. Don't wanna see any of y'all bitchin' bout the morals of this country going down the shitter.


----------



## sealark

Travis uses a Kline side scan towed sonar. Cost most likely at least 100 k. Must be towed behind the boat close to the bottom. You can see a beer can setting off the bottom on a kline. Can find a homemade reef a few hundred feet out each side.


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## sealark

Forgot to add I was told that that was what he is using. Never seen it myself.


----------



## Pete E

As a Brit, I can't say I've ever heard of this sort of thing before. I guess we have so many genuine wrecks and so much other structure off our coasts, it would never be an issue.

Out of curiosity, typically just how big are these private reefs and what are they made from? 

Regards,

Peter


----------



## markw4321

Well it used to be said that he only sold illegally placed reef numbers and some natural bottom numbers most of them were in State water or outside the LAARs in federal waters where you can permit a reef legally. Then he pulled the numbers off the natural bottom indicated and available in the USGS Gulf survey into his software and now it appears he has mapped and is selling numbers in the LAARs areas where a reef can be legally deployed. 

Go ahead and pay him $190 for a chicken coop spot in the LAARs area where you can legally permit a reef. Those reefs are in 80 to 120 ft of water and are holding red snapper and or trigger and that is about it. Those reefs are in Federal waters. So you won't have a trigger fish season this year in federal waters and you will have a 7-9 day federal snapper season.


The chicken coop reefs that I placed in the LAARs a few years ago I did not get to fish them for snapper or trigger during the legal snapper or trigger 2016 season. Doubt I will make it out there during this year's federal snapper season either. Most of the natural bottom numbers he sells can be had by looking in several places on line and on existing charts for virtually no to very low cost compared to what he is selling them for. If you are to stupid to read a bottom chart and find your own natural bottom fishing spots to try with the info that's already out there for free, or you suck so bad at fishing that you have need to try and benefit from someone else's work where you have to buy numbers go for it.

Bottom line for snapper and trigger state water will be your only option to fish for the foreseeable future in terms of having an actual fishing season.


----------



## SHunter

Pete, a company makes artificial reefs out of concrete. A close friend who was a local boat captain's ashes were just put into one and will be dropped into the Gulf of Mexico. In our area the bottom is very dessert like, so artificial reefs bring in the fish. Years ago the captain and I put some artificial reefs out there, but they were anything that he could find like chicken coops, frames of Volkswagon cars, etc. The government doesn't allow this anymore. Now you have to hire a company if done legally. Once these structures are deployed they no long belong to the person who put them there. Some guys get bent out of shape if someone else fishes their turf and I admit it is a little aggravating.


----------



## Telum Pisces

Billybob+ said:


> Don't know if anyone's raised this point yet or not....and much like Chris V, I'm not sure why I'm allowing myself to be drug into this debate but if so many think everything out there is public and with cell phones the way they are, how would everyone feel about going on a friends boat ....or a charter....hitting a good spot and simply marking it in your phone?...heck....then for that matter offer it for sale.....make a buck or two!


Is that why you used to wand me with the metal detector before I got on the boat. I just thought it was some silly Billybob initiation or something.:whistling::thumbsup: 

Dang this thread is still going? Hunting season is wrapping up and most aren't back on the water yet. Can ya tell?


----------



## halo1

You can tell hunting season is bout done and cobia season hasn't started yet since we're rehashing old topics. No worries a few more weeks and it'll be Pier rats vs the world threads on the forum. Mods have to work overtime to delete all the death threat pms floating about! It's glorious! Hahaha


----------



## Sea-r-cy

Pete E said:


> As a Brit, I can't say I've ever heard of this sort of thing before. I guess we have so many genuine wrecks and so much other structure off our coasts, it would never be an issue.
> 
> Out of curiosity, typically just how big are these private reefs and what are they made from?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter


Probably the most common artificial reef deployed is chicken transport coops. They are relative inexpensive (around $150 each), and fairly plentiful. They are 4' wide, 8' long, and 52" tall. Some variations are larger. They have to have the fiberglass panels removed, and doors off. Then two or more are chained, welded, or bolted together to be a legal reef.


----------



## FenderBender

If you don't want it found, sink it deep and way SW.


----------



## Breeze

Sea-r-cy said:


> Probably the most common artificial reef deployed is chicken transport coops. They are relative inexpensive (around $150 each), and fairly plentiful. They are 4' wide, 8' long, and 52" tall. Some variations are larger. They have to have the fiberglass panels removed, and doors off. Then two or more are chained, welded, or bolted together to be a legal reef.


Dang.... We had a guy that would spend all day every day keeping those doors replaced and here you guys are taking them off! 👍

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk


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## MrFish

FenderBender said:


> If you don't want it found, sink it deep and way SW.


I have some numbers for quite a few holes that hold monster snapper. Even if ole Travis was to find them, not many folks willing to run 50+ miles one way for snapper. That's out of Perdido Pass.


----------



## Hook

FenderBender said:


> If you don't want it found, sink it deep and way SW.


I have said this all my life. Most boaters are afraid / cheap to burn the extra fuel. Better fishing and more pleasant away from close spots. South east and no one will find it. There are very good spots south east but u have to know them.


----------



## SpeedoJosh

I don't blame all the hate. There I was fishing the other day at a spot I paid to get access to, and up comes another guy and starts fishing right beside me. We chatted about the bite, I caught a fish, and then that scallywag caught a fish. At that point I was livid, packed up all my gear, and walked off the pier. The nerve of some people.


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## Mac1528

Goodun SoJ!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## badonskybuccaneers

SpeedoJosh said:


> I don't blame all the hate. There I was fishing the other day at a spot I paid to get access to, and up comes another guy and starts fishing right beside me. We chatted about the bite, I caught a fish, and then that scallywag caught a fish. At that point I was livid, packed up all my gear, and walked off the pier. The nerve of some people.


----------



## hjorgan

Chris V said:


> I see apples and oranges in this thread. The main point that I think was supposed to have been made was not whether a reef is public or private as much as its pretty unethical to drag around sonar to find spots others paid to put out and then sell them for your own profit.
> 
> If someone finds one of my spots, then I pretty much expect them to fish it. That's fine, they found it, enjoy a few fish. However, I cannot see where a moral compass directs someone to search for the contributions others made to our ecosystem and then make money off of said contributions.
> 
> I want to know how many reefs he has personally deployed, because if he hasn't added any out of his own pocket, then he has done absolutely nothing but exploit the efforts of others and yes, 100%, that is WRONG


Well said Chris.


----------



## dabutcher

I don't see the difference in fishing someone's private reef and pitching a bait under a private dock in the sound. 

There's more whining on this thread than on all of the inshore threads combined.


----------



## MrFish

dabutcher said:


> I don't see the difference in fishing someone's private reef and pitching a bait under a private dock in the sound.
> 
> There's more whining on this thread than on all of the inshore threads combined.


Big difference. If you don't see it, then I'm not splaining it.


----------



## dabutcher

MrFish said:


> Big difference. If you don't see it, then I'm not splaining it.



The difference I see is that most dock owners don't incessantly whine about someone fishing around their dock.


----------



## MrFish

dabutcher said:


> The difference I see is that most dock owners don't incessantly whine about someone fishing around their dock.


You aren't even close. Stay inside the pass.


----------



## Man vs Net

dabutcher said:


> The difference I see is that most dock owners don't incessantly whine about someone fishing around their dock.


I can turn on/off my dock lights and no one is selling directions to my pier...



PS. do I seriously have to watch a video everytime i post?


----------



## halo1

dabutcher said:


> I don't see the difference in fishing someone's private reef and pitching a bait under a private dock in the sound.
> 
> There's more whining on this thread than on all of the inshore threads combined.


One constant on the pff forum, whether your on the right or the left ! Whining can always be found! I think we should consider this for the forum. mods ? Lol! All proceeds go to woodys tag and release foundation. Help him tag and release every fish in the Gulf of Mexico ! He's 97% complete! Help him and Kim bring it home! Hahahah four roses single barrel sponsored this reply! Haha good whiskey!


----------



## Hound_dog

Man vs Net said:


> I can turn on/off my dock lights and no one is selling directions to my pier...
> 
> 
> 
> PS. do I seriously have to watch a video everytime i post?


Huh?


----------



## Boat-Dude

Winter time brings out the best in all of us. HAHA


----------



## dabutcher

MrFish;Stay inside the pass.[/QUOTE said:


> No way I'm staying inside the pass. I bought a ton of private numbers about a year ago and killed a ton of fish. The best place was 50+ miles offshore. It was covered with monster snapper.


----------



## nextstep

dabutcher said:


> The difference I see is that most dock owners don't incessantly whine about someone fishing around their dock.


there once was a man named kim
he did not like people around his dock fishin

when it was all said and done
he was no fun

he knew how to tie a knot 
that would not hold worth a snot

there was once was a man named kim


----------



## AndyS

dabutcher said:


> No way I'm staying inside the pass. I bought a ton of private numbers about a year ago and killed a ton of fish. The best place was 50+ miles offshore. It was covered with monster snapper.


They'll be gone when the commercial guys find it.


----------



## BananaTom

Pretty Cool "Free" advertisement that Travis is getting here on the PFF, with this thread.

WOW!! 8,300 views.


----------



## MrFish

AndyS said:


> They'll be gone when the commercial guys find it.


Commercial guys don't want big snapper. They like the small ones.


----------



## BananaTom

I had to go and look at his webpage, as the curiosity was killing me.

It appears the webpage is down right now.

Maybe he sold out of numbers.


----------



## Mac1528

BananaTom said:


> ...
> Maybe he sold out of numbers.


I thought numbers were infinite?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## atlantacapt

Just another thought/question here to ponder...

I've fished around the area since the early 90's and have both dropped my own reefs and found numerous spots while transiting offshore or from spot to spot (sometimes randomly and other times actively trolling between spots with a focus on finding new natural or artificial reefs. Some found spots are way better than others and I tend to focus out in deeper water where it really would be impossible to send a diver down and move a chicken coop, etc. Up to this point, I have never sold a found number, but what happens if I get up there in age and want to ultimately sell my book that I've built over the decades? I am fairly certain that this is done a lot, either by dedicated private boat guys and certainly by charter guys selling their business in order to retire. Is this any different that what Strikelines is doing from an ethical point of view (as I would then be profiting off of "found" numbers). thoughts?


----------



## jvalhenson

MrFish said:


> Commercial guys don't want big snapper. They like the small ones.


And they gonna get em no matter how many big ones they gotta kill in the process 

Ol strikelines prob tripled his business the last few days with folks reading here.


----------



## dabutcher

jvalhenson said:


> And they gonna get em no matter how many big ones they gotta kill in the process
> 
> Ol strikelines prob tripled his business the last few days with folks reading here.


And the offshore butt hurt meter reached a new high.


----------



## sealark

atlantacapt said:


> Just another thought/question here to ponder...
> 
> I've fished around the area since the early 90's and have both dropped my own reefs and found numerous spots while transiting offshore or from spot to spot (sometimes randomly and other times actively trolling between spots with a focus on finding new natural or artificial reefs. Some found spots are way better than others and I tend to focus out in deeper water where it really would be impossible to send a diver down and move a chicken coop, etc. Up to this point, I have never sold a found number, but what happens if I get up there in age and want to ultimately sell my book that I've built over the decades? I am fairly certain that this is done a lot, either by dedicated private boat guys and certainly by charter guys selling their business in order to retire. Is this any different that what Strikelines is doing from an ethical point of view (as I would then be profiting off of "found" numbers). thoughts?


The bad part about strikelines numbers is, someone buys a few numbers and then sells or gives them to a friend to make some of there money back. 
You want to put strikelines out of business? Just give me 20 grand for my 41 years of gps numbers about 8000 numbers. And resell them for 1 grand each. My numbers cover the entire florida gulf here to key west. Cash in hundred dollar bills only. Only one copy sold but I can still use them, there are a few still with fish on them. It will only take you 3 or 4 years to fine the few good ones. I gonna retire also.


----------



## BananaTom

sealark said:


> Just give me 20 grand for my 41 years of gps numbers about 8000 numbers.


That is a deal!!

PM me your bank account information and I will have the money transferred from my offshore bank, in Russia.

I will also need to transfer an additional $20,000 in to your account with this transaction, in order to get some of that cash onshore. Once I do, I will pass by and pick up the additional $20,000 in cash.


----------



## sealark

Go sit on a bannana Tom, this is my scam not yours.


----------



## MillerLight21

BananaTom said:


> That is a deal!!
> 
> 
> 
> PM me your bank account information and I will have the money transferred from my offshore bank, in Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I will also need to transfer an additional $20,000 in to your account with this transaction, in order to get some of that cash onshore. Once I do, I will pass by and pick up the additional $20,000 in cash.




You work on Craigslist much!? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## prokat2200

Its a deal @Sealark. I am getting a large settlement from a uncle in Nigeria any day now so I will have the 100 dollar bills.


----------



## jvalhenson

dabutcher said:


> And the offshore butt hurt meter reached a new high.


ha not me. i couldnt care less about a snapper or anyone selling numbers. dont fish for snapper but a couple times a year and they to easy to get to get as worked up as yall do over em just fun to get in on the conversation.


----------



## Mac1528

Way to go Ron, I'm making some more popcorn, this should go another 10 pages now!!

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## Telum Pisces

Shoot I've seen quite a few boats sold on here and advertised to have plenty of private numbers that will stay in the electronics with the sale. It's advertised as a value added to the sale etc. 

Damn that boat owner for selling those private numbers with the boat!!! They should not do such an immoral thing!!! He just found them and didn't put any of the reefs down. So the boat owner is making a profit off it. Damn that boat seller! 

I think this may be a record for a private numbers thread before getting the ax!


----------



## bamachem

Good grief. I guess the weather and water needs to hurry up and get warm so some of you can get out on the water and quit arguing on the internet.


----------



## markw4321

such activity used to be considered "unethical" http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0714/ANR-0714.pdf


*2. Don't steal "numbers."*
Stealing loran readings also causes a great
deal of conflict in the coastal area of Alabama.
A serious angler many times goes to a great expense
in time, effort, and money to legally place
artificial reef structures in coastal Alabama.
These reefs can be highly productive for that
fisherman as long as the reef location remains
a secret. Some unethical fishermen practice​
"stealing numbers" by scanning the horizon for
fishermen, then taking their boats close enough 
to get a good loran fix on the location, only to 
return later to overfish the reef. This practice 
should be stopped! Again, imagine yourself as the person who builds the reefs.​----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

​ 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Wonder if this "trade secrets" ruling from 1991 is still cited in some court cases involving Charter operators?*

NY Newsday Tue April 23 1991-Nick Karas​ 
Capt Jim Robertson of Boca Grande Fla (plaintiff) vs Capt Don Starner(respondent)​ 
Florida Assistant State Attorney John Collins represented Robertson at the Feb hearing: Starner pleaded no contest to the charges alleging that in 1989 he copied books of a log of loran numbers without permission from the owner, thus stealing trade secrets from the owner. Starner was sentenced to one yrs probation given a $500 dollar fine and $250 court costs and ordered to pay $100 to the prosecutor. First case in Fla history in which someone has been criminally prosecuted for theft of trade secrets in the form of loran numbers, Collins stated. Robertson is considering a civil suit against Starner, claiming that at a minimum his numbers were worth 150k~~~ Case started when another captain at the same marina where they are kept their boats spotted Starner photocopying Robertsons ships log. Judge William Nelson in Ft Myers was told by Robertson that his logbook contained more then 500 readings (loran numbers) that were complied over 20 years. A Chief Warrant officer from the CG stated that it is possible that this captain could lose his captains license it wont be automatic due to the judges ruling, but it could be suspended, revoked or denied renewal.​


----------



## bamachem

If you take someone's log book and copy it, I could see where you are copying their work.

If you burn your gas and use your boat and equipment to discover what may be on the seabed, and then sell that information to recover your expenses and make it worth your effort, then you are not stealing anything. Once deployed, those reefs belong to no one. The location can be kept somewhat secretive because the one paying for deployment and the company charged with deploying the reef can keep the coordinates to themselves, but once it's in the water, it's fair game. The only reason "public numbers" are public are because they are published. Private reefs are much better described as UNPUBLISHED Reefs. They are exactly the same when it comes to ownership and access rights for all.

If I were to buy 100,000 ARS fingerlings and turn them loose in the gulf, would you expect me to complain when someone caught one of MY fish? Once released, they are public domain. No different for the reef systems in open waters. Sorry, but you pay for the privilege for setting the reef and being the first to know it's location, but you are NOT guaranteed someone else won't find it, fish it, and share the location on a public forum. If that's not guaranteed, then you're also not guaranteed someone who finds it won't sell the location if they so desire. That's the risk you take by dropping reef materials in the ocean. 

Is this above-the-line as far as ethics and morals are concerned? That is up an individual's opinion of what is ethical and moral. 

I don't view running up on someone while fishing and marking a spot as ethical. I don't view pinging someone with radar from afar and marking the spot as ethical. Neither involved work on the part of the one obtaining the information. 

However, taking one's own time and resources to discover what may be out there and then selling the information they discovered really isn't all that unethical. Just because it has to do with permitted reefs that people think they own when they really don't doesn't change that. If he were running sonar and selling coordinates for uncharted natural bottom, would any of you have an issue with that? Then why do you have an issue when he is selling coordinates for spots that may or may not be natural? Just because you drop it in the water, doesn't mean you retain ownership. If you don't believe me, just refer to USCG rules/regs on salvage rights at sea.

For example, let's say instead of fishing this applied to hunting. He spends his time and money scouting public hunting lands for good areas that hold deer. He goes all over WMA land and finds where they are hanging out. Now, he decides to sell this info to people who want to know where the deer are. Sometimes the deer hold up in natural bottoms, but other times it may be on a small patch of clover and oats that someone planted in September. Sometimes a location might be where someone put out a mineral rock a mile from an access road. Sometimes he might sell the number to a place where you put threw out some clover and oats. Sometimes it might be a location for some clover/oats or a mineral rock that someone put out a decade ago and no longer bother to hunt. In this instance, I wouldn't think selling prime deer locations on WMA land would be unethical. He did the work, he can reap the reward of selling the info he obtained on his own. Just because you put out some seed doesn't entitle you to rights of ownership over the land below it or the air above it, and it certainly doesn't reserve your rights to any deer that may be near it at any given time.

Now where this gets interesting is where people apply what they would personally decide to do as an ethical/unethical litmus test. Just because you don't think it's "right" or "injust" doesn't necessarily mean that it's ethical or not when it comes to society. The interpretation of a single person does not make the case for blanket interpretations as a whole. You may not personally think that it's something you would want to do, if you had the means and the time, but that doesn't make it "wrong". That only means it's beneath your personal standards. Because ethics and morals are based on cumulative understandings of social norms, you alone don't hold the key. 

Therefore the best litmus test to this is whether he is making any money doing it. If people truly thought this was wrong, then they wouldn't support his business and/or reinforce his actions by paying him money to share his knowledge. The fact he is in business and the fact that he still has an audience says a lot. If his actions were highly suspect, then his sale of UNPUBLISHED Reef Locations would be illegal, and it's clearly not. If it's across the line in your personal opinion, then don't support his business. (No I have not bought his numbers and never will, but that's MY opinion and I'm not going to chide him for what he's doing.)


----------



## markw4321

I have not seen one person on here that actually placed an artificial reef post up that they owned that reef. But yet that gets repeated over and over as if someone actually posted that they owned a reef they deployed. 

He knows what is on the spot he is selling he advertises them as "chicken coops" etc.

Plenty of people making money off of unethical legal businesses. That is Not a litmus test. Alabama car title loans for example and in Thailand a prostitute is legal at age 15


----------



## stevenattsu

Heck 14 years ago or so a kid I went the Pensacola Catholic High School with, whose dad owned the Reef Ball company gave me the print out of ever reef they ever put out. But dont worry guys I never gave those numbers away, just fished the hell out of them.


----------



## BananaTom

We once had the RFRA association around here, we would build reef's, and then deploy them, I was a card carrying member. Over by Richard Allen Seafood on Pine Street

We also had a legal cause, but I can not remember what is was.


----------



## halo1

This should calm everyone down! Lol call me the pff whisperer! Haha


----------



## Mac1528

Now that's a nice reef!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## markw4321

halo1 said:


> This should calm everyone down! Lol call me the pff whisperer! Haha


Nice!


----------



## Boat-Dude

stevenattsu said:


> Heck 14 years ago or so a kid I went the Pensacola Catholic High School with, whose dad owned the Reef Ball company gave me the print out of ever reef they ever put out. But dont worry guys I never gave those numbers away, just fished the hell out of them.


Dale?


----------



## Play'N Hooky Too

BananaTom said:


> Pretty Cool "Free" advertisement that Travis is getting here on the PFF, with this thread.
> 
> WOW!! 8,300 views.


Hey, Wait a minute!!...BullBoxer = Strikelines??:sneaky2:

Could it be possible?:whistling:


----------



## Will_R

SouthernAngler said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not condoning the business this is simply something to ponder.
> 
> Everyone is so quick to judge the guy selling the numbers but nowhere in this moral pissing contest did anyone question the ethics of the consumer.
> 
> What if he has an epiphany and shuts his business down, then what happens? *Say the money the people were spending on these privately owned public water coordinates was then spent on top of the line radar equipment*. Instead of having one guy doing it and selling the numbers to cover expenses you have every weekend warrior out there stealing your "private" spots. Where does your moral compass direct you then?


That's what I was getting at in one of my questions for ChrisV the other night. People are essentially fighting a technology advancement here (as someone else has pointed out.) And it's just going to trickle down going forward. Heck, for the adventurous DIYer, a towfish can already be made for less than a couple hundred bucks right now by slapping a side scan transducer into a PVC pipe, putting some stabilizing fins on it, and extending the cables with cheap cat5 and kevlar cord. It won't be able to read the label on a beer can, but it's orders of magnitude more information at depths where typically only a downscan will work satisfactorily.

Maybe Humminbird will eventually release a production model of what people are already doing with their units for less than a grand. A lot more people would have one at that price point.



SouthernAngler said:


> Do I agree with what he is doing? No. Is it wrong? Yes. He is exploiting a public natural resource for private monetary gain. One post said it was the convenience which to me just points to laziness. Lucky for said business owner people are lazy and want instant gratification without having to put forth any effort


Did you design and build the keyboard/smartphone you typed this on? No? You must just be lazy.

When you need to cut a board do you chomp through it like a beaver with just your teeth? Oh, you use a saw someone else built? Well, you're just lazy.

What are you doing with dimensional lumber in the first place? You're just lazy to pay for the convenience to have someone fell, dry and mill a tree for you.

Is your house built from homemade bricks, straw, and personally gnawed logs? Yeah, you're just too lazy for all that.

Everyone enjoying anything beyond the Bronze Age is just lazy!

Everyone enjoying comparative advantage is just lazy!

It's amazing the number of tasks I outsource when needing a pencil. (Hint, it's nearly all of them!) I'm too lazy to even grow and tap my own rubber tree for making erasers.


----------



## JoeyWelch

Mac1528 said:


> I thought numbers were infinite?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


Actually, there are only ten of them...


----------



## halo1

jlw1972 said:


> Actually, there are only ten of them...


There's more then 10 based on the last pic u sent me! :whistling: lol


----------



## JoeyWelch

halo1 said:


> There's more then 10 based on the last pic u sent me! :whistling: lol


That was ole Buck.
Hell he can't count anyway...


----------



## 192

I'll bet many of you have too many boogers under your computer desks.


----------



## Mac1528

Here's that magic 200 mark!! Wohoooo....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## MillerLight21

grouper22 said:


> In other news, Splittine wishes all of you a Happy Valentines Day




And I thought watching 50 shades of grey made me want to gag...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Splittine

grouper22 said:


> In other news, Splittine wishes all of you a Happy Valentines Day


Stay out of your wife's phone.


----------



## markw4321

Be Mines?


----------



## JoeyWelch

Dat be mines?


----------



## JoeyWelch




----------



## Boat-Dude

grouper22 said:


> I'll bet many of you have too many boogers under your computer desks.


----------



## seabiscuit

I think this thread is a pretty good advertisement for this guys business. I had no idea this was going on, but, I'll bet he sells a lot of spots. This past summer I was hailed by a boat advising me he was towing a cable and to give plenty of room as I passed behind him. I guess this is what he was doing. Does anybody know how far behind the boat the sonar tows and is it right on top of the water or several feet deep. He was barely moving and later that day coming in, he was still in the same area.


----------



## Capt'n Daddy

BullBoxer said:


> I just saw this on the hull truth. Travis Griggs is the owner of a company based in Pcola, Strikelines Charts that is selling private reef numbers. He is going out and finding the reefs both private and charter fisherman paid to have put out and then selling the numbers to the public. I think this is pretty low. I am no advocate for the charter industry but they make their living off of their own spots. The private guys pay their own money for their own spots and this guy is basically stealing that and making a profit on it. Visit their facebook page and website to see more. I think this should be stopped.
> 
> http://strikelinescharts.com/


It is much more ethical to use radar....  These threads are useless and nothing in the gulf is private. He is provide a service. Good for him. Could do the same thing just pinging people on your radar... folks have been doing it for years. I've lost many a "private" spot to radar...part of fishing in the gulf.


----------



## Pete E

Capt'n Daddy said:


> Could do the same thing just pinging people on your radar... folks have been doing it for years. I've lost many a "private" spot to radar...part of fishing in the gulf.


 
I can see you guys fitting chaff dispensers to your boats next!


----------



## WhyMe

I think we all been blind on this one..is Bullboxer working with the enemy to make the sales go up? At 208 replies and 11k looks you know that guys website is on fire with sales. 
If you read this post, it's all in fun. Lol
Whyme


----------



## Realtor

lol some new screen names with low post counts, new folks tp the PFF!!!!!


----------



## Ocean Master

I had 10 spots put out ion 2014. I haven't been back yet..!!


----------



## JoeyWelch




----------



## JoeyWelch




----------



## 2RC's II

I got about 2k of his spots. Reason is I don't fish much in my boat but when you live in the panhandle you have a bunch of guests during the spring through fall and they all wanna catch a fish. So instead of wasting time with these guests running around to over fished public numbers I hit these spots and return around noonish and all the visitors are happy. My serious fishing is with a couple buddies who one was on the redfish tour years ago and he has about a million of his own numbers. I would like to add that 75% of the numbers I purchased are natural bottom areas as they do not wash away are bigger and much easier to hold on in not so ideal weather. So that being said not all he sells are "private spots". I really did not want coops and volkswagons but I asked for a specific area and to get the discount I was unable to get all natural bottom and had to take some illegally placed private spots. Have of yet to fish one of those "private spots".


----------



## Mac1528

Ping...ping...pingggg....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## MrFish

2RC's II said:


> My serious fishing is with a couple buddies who one was on the redfish tour years ago and he has about a million of his own numbers.


What does the "redfish tour" have to do with bottom spots? I've caught slot reds 20+ miles out, but never consistently enough to target them. Bulls are way offshore. Just wondering.


----------



## JoeyWelch

MrFish said:


> What does the "redfish tour" have to do with bottom spots? I've caught slot reds 20+ miles out, but never consistently enough to target them. Bulls are way offshore. Just wondering.


Red Snapper tour maybe?


----------



## WhyMe

I'm popping popcorn and damn it smells great.
Whyme


----------



## MrFish

WhyMe said:


> I'm popping popcorn and damn it smells great.
> Whyme


Mine always burns and stinks up the house.


----------



## 2RC's II

MrFish said:


> What does the "redfish tour" have to do with bottom spots? I've caught slot reds 20+ miles out, but never consistently enough to target them. Bulls are way offshore. Just wondering.


Well it's not worth explaining. Jeez! The kids on this forum.


----------



## 2RC's II

My bad Mr. Fish. SKA tour. Kingfish. My apologies to you. Had on my mind what we ate last night. Sorry.


----------



## Will_R

seabiscuit said:


> I think this thread is a pretty good advertisement for this guys business. I had no idea this was going on, but, I'll bet he sells a lot of spots. This past summer I was hailed by a boat advising me he was towing a cable and to give plenty of room as I passed behind him. I guess this is what he was doing. Does anybody know how far behind the boat the sonar tows and is it right on top of the water or several feet deep. He was barely moving and later that day coming in, he was still in the same area.


It won't be right on top of the water or just under the surface. That would defeat almost the whole purpose of pulling a towfish. Getting it way behind the boat would put you in clean water, but the point is to get your sonar transducer closer to whatever it's hitting. Higher frequency sonar will produce a higher resolution image but at a cost of range.

No idea how far behind he pulls it but I doubt it's more than a few hundred feet, and the cable is probably close to 45 degrees with the surface.


----------



## Cap'n Crunch

What the guy is doing is frowned upon, but private fishing spots in the Gulf of Mexico LOL. Who here owns the Gulf of Mexico?


----------



## sealark

The land or in this case the bottom is owned but the water isn't. Don't start an argument about catching a fish and not touching bottom. You have to launch or leave and return from land. Lets keep this discussion going.


----------



## Cap'n Crunch

sealark said:


> The land or in this case the bottom is owned but the water isn't.


That bottom is owned.:laughing:


----------



## AndyS

2RC's II said:


> .... I really did not want coops and volkswagons ....


Well, I can tell ya by looking at the chassis of my dune buggy that sits on a 67 VW frame .... them volkswagen reefs aint there anymore! Them old VW's weren't one bit corrosion resistant.

I don't have any experience with the new metal chicken coops .... they were all made of wood back when I was a chicken catcher.


----------



## 2RC's II

AndyS said:


> Well, I can tell ya by looking at the chassis of my dune buggy that sits on a 67 VW frame .... them volkswagen reefs aint there anymore! Them old VW's weren't one bit corrosion resistant.
> 
> I don't have any experience with the new metal chicken coops .... they were all made of wood back when I was a chicken catcher.


Metaphor AndyS. I don't what they are I have only checked one illegally placed spot and it was coops.


----------



## Slamdancer

Call what Strikelines is doing what you want, I call it Free Enterprise. If you sink a fishing reef in public waters, you are surrendering ownership. If someone locates it they are free to do with the information as they please. It's the risk you take when you build the reef.

Once one of the new mapping services like Cmor Mapping, maps the area, there will be even fewer secret spots. https://www.cmormapping.com


----------



## sealark

The rights to the bottom, like fl has a 9 mile in the gulf. Then the feds have I believe a 200 mile.


----------



## ghost95

So if someone trolls around finding spots and then goes out with his buddy the next weekend and gives out those numbers instead of gas $, is he a slime ball too?

If you really don't like this guys business the easiest way to stop it is to get all the butt hurts together and buy the list. Then publish it. No more secrets. No more need for anyone to buy numbers.

Seems like I've heard before that if you don't know how to fish it won't matter what spots you have. If that's true then this selling of numbers shouldn't matter. 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## Cap'n Crunch

sealark said:


> The rights to the bottom, like fl has a 9 mile in the gulf. Then the feds have I believe a 200 mile.


The feds have 15 miles.


----------



## FenderBender




----------



## bigrick

Ocean Master said:


> I had 10 spots put out ion 2014. I haven't been back yet..!!


I'll check them for you if you'd like.


----------



## bigrick

but really, I can sit in my boat slip with my radar on and steal ya'll "private" spots all day long. With the technology out now "private spots" don't exist.


----------



## AndyS

ghost95 said:


> .... Seems like I've heard before that if you don't know how to fish it won't matter what spots you have. ...


My outings sometimes seem to be the proof of that adage. :001_unsure:


----------



## lsucole

bigrick said:


> but really, I can sit in my boat slip with my radar on and steal ya'll "private" spots all day long. With the technology out now "private spots" don't exist.


 Before this thread started I never knew that this was able to be done. For several years now I wondered why you now see so many boats under 20' that have radar --- now I know ! I am sure the kayakers will be next !


----------



## FleaBag

Trust no one. People are no damn good. even your bestest of buddys gravitate toward the machines when you get on a really good spot. GET OVER IT. Nothing frustrates me more than some hot shot captain (private or charter) that try to physically bump me off a spot because he thinks he found it first or he knows someone who knows someone that might have put it down there. if someone is there I move on to the next one. Finders keepers but you better get up at the crack of chicken to make sure you get there first.


----------



## markw4321

bigrick said:


> but really, I can sit in my boat slip with my radar on and steal ya'll "private" spots all day long.


----------



## AndyS

lsucole said:


> Before this thread started I never knew that this was able to be done. For several years now I wondered why you now see so many boats under 20' that have radar --- now I know ! I am sure the kayakers will be next !


My new yak. :thumbup:


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## bigrick

I'd say I have a fairly accurate range of at least 4 or 5 miles.


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## markw4321

bigrick said:


> I'd say I have a fairly accurate range of at least 4 or 5 miles.


Accuracy of radar is a function of power and mainly beam width. I am assuming you are running an open array antenna vice a dome. For example a Furuno 3.5 open array has a 2.2 degree beam width. The cone or area where an object (boat) seen on radar may actually be sitting increases with distance and the position accuracy decreases as the radar beam widens with distance. 











Depending upon the variables involved, including weather and quality of target, sea conditions etc, a 20' fiberglass boat can be very hard to pick up for virtually any radar unit at distances over a couple of miles, I can't say what you would or would not see at a given time. I will say, that a bigger antenna (which is why big ships have 12' units with a beam width of 0.5 degrees) always do a better job finding and descriminating targets.


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## bigrick

Don't come at me with your fancy science and facts sir.


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## jaster

Lol, private spots


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## markw4321

jaster said:


> Lol, private spots


Lol 
Says it upfront right on his website ""private" reef numbers" Haha
http://www.strikelinescharts.com


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## Slamdancer

I think the Privacy Ship sailed years ago. There is no way to keep a secret fishing hole secret for long, somebody is always looking for them & sooner or later will locate. What they do with this information is truly up to them.


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## Chapman5011

I hate a hot head charter captain that loses his cool with recreational boats while he is sitting on top of a very popular public number .you would think with all the private numbers for sale, he could find a better spot than the Russian freighter or Allan or Wallace ships. I've run into negative captains on all three of those public numbers. Even had them yell over the loud speaker, when I was there first, yet they don't mind backing their boat within 15 feet from where you floating and yell at you that they have lines down


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## sealark

Hold up your cell phone and holler, Say hello to the Coast Guard. Watch his attitude change. Or do like I do, ask him to show you the title for the spot.


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## chaps

Slamdancer said:


> I think the Privacy Ship sailed years ago. There is no way to keep a secret fishing hole secret for long, somebody is always looking for them & sooner or later will locate. What they do with this information is truly up to them.


Yep, I'm relatively new to the offshore game but it didn't take me long to realize ain't nothing secret anymore. So StrikeLines doing what he's doing may not sit right with a lot of people, but nothing you can do about it. Just keep fishing and if you get pushed off a spot or someone decides to join, time to move to a new spot and hopefully it hasn't been fished out.


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## CCC

AND I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ONE !!!!! LOL
So the next time I spend my time and gas money driving around all day looking for diving birds AND I FIND THEM, everyone of you stay away THAT'S MY SCHOOL OF FISH I FOUND, I put in that effort !!!!!!!!
Nope 50 Damn boats will show up STEALING MY SCHOOL OF FISH!!!!! 
PS: I have Travis's number if anyone needs it.


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## JoeyWelch

CCC said:


> AND I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ONE !!!!! LOL
> So the next time I spend my time and gas money driving around all day looking for diving birds AND I FIND THEM, everyone of you stay away THAT'S MY SCHOOL OF FISH I FOUND, I put in that effort !!!!!!!!
> Nope 50 Damn boats will show up STEALING MY SCHOOL OF FISH!!!!!
> PS: I have Travis's number if anyone needs it.


Wow!
You must really be serious using all those capital letters.


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## CCC

jlw1972 said:


> Wow!
> You must really be serious using all those capital letters.


Is it serious now ??????? I thought !!!! = Mad ???? Amazon is sending me my 2017 net meanings book haven't got it yet .


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## Mac1528

CCC said:


> ......
> PS: I have Travis's number if anyone needs it.


Are you kidding?? We all do!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## sealark

I know where he lives. Ill sell the GPS numbers for $500 to his front door. 😁👿


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## Mac1528

sealark said:


> I know where he lives. Ill sell the GPS numbers for $500 to his front door. 😁👿


Psssst! His phone # is the GPS#s. Gotta read between the lines.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## H2OMARK

Mac1528 said:


> Are you kidding?? We all do!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


He's got all your's too!


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## Mac1528

H2OMARK said:


> He's got all your's too!


My phone#, my address, my email, etc....He was very kind to my scout troop with donations!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk


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## AndyS

markw4321 said:


> Accuracy of radar is a function of power and mainly beam width. I am assuming you are running an open array antenna vice a dome. For example a Furuno 3.5 open array has a 2.2 degree beam width. The cone or area where an object (boat) seen on radar may actually be sitting increases with distance and the position accuracy decreases as the radar beam widens with distance.
> 
> 
> View attachment 870898
> 
> 
> 
> Depending upon the variables involved, including weather and quality of target, sea conditions etc, a 20' fiberglass boat can be very hard to pick up for virtually any radar unit at distances over a couple of miles, I can't say what you would or would not see at a given time. I will say, that a bigger antenna (which is why big ships have 12' units with a beam width of 0.5 degrees) always do a better job finding and descriminating targets.


These ladies say we're making it all just way too complicated.


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## JoeyWelch

...


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