# The fight for our fishery



## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Guys, as we all know, our fishery, our way of life, our heritage, is systematically being stolen from us. NOAA now represents the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF); not we the people. The goal of this very powerful, well organized, and extremely well funded, radical organization is to shove shares/separation down the throats of the American saltwater fisherman. Think the 2014 nine day American red snapper season was due to science, due to 'over-fishing,' due to a depleted fishery? Think again! Think GREED! Remember, a healthy fishery shows NO need for NOAA's shares/separation. 
As soon as shares/separation is shoved down the throats of the recreational fishermen there will be no more nine day ARS seasons. All of a sudden what was once our fishery will see a miraculous recovery. The American red snapper are now so abundant that we can catch as many as we want as often as we want. Want to catch & keep a red snapper? NO problem! Just march down to your friendly Walmart and purchase as many tags, 'shares' as you can afford. Think Walmart donated over $30,000,000, earmarked for the push to catch shares, out of the goodness of their hearts? Think again! Walmart's profits from selling us back our own fish is predicted to be in the billions. 
Unless we unite and act, act NOW, there will be NO more FREE 'open access' fishing. One way we can fight the takeover of OUR fishery is to join the RFA. The RFA fights 24/7 for us, the American recreational saltwater fisherme The stronger the RFA, the stronger we are. I have been a member for years:

AUGUST 27TH - BILOXI OR BUST!

RFA Urges Angler Action In Gulf Separation Fight



How far are you willing to go to protect your right to fish?



On August 27, 2014, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council will once again entertain a vote to divide the recreational fishing community into a 'for-hire' sector and a 'private angler' sector by divvying up the allotted recreational fishing quota. The Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) and many other recreational fishing organizations and fishing clubs stand united on the effort to stop the sector separation discussion at the regional council level, and they're encouraging members to participate in the discussion. 



"This red snapper sector separation is coming to a head and about to explode," said Capt. Tom Adams of Mexico Beach, FL. "If you are one of the thousands here locally that love to fish for red snapper and still want to in the future, now is the time to actually do something about it."



If you live along the Florida Panhandle or anywhere within driving distance, join Capt. Adams and others tonight at the Holiday Inn across from the Panama City Mall at 6 p.m. Public hearings on the sector separation scheme are going on throughout the Gulf of Mexico, with tonight's meeting planned in Panama City, FL at 2001 Martin Luther King Boulevard. Click here for meeting schedule. 



RFA is encouraging saltwater anglers to attend a nearby hearing to show opposition, but the real battle against the regulatory dismantling of the recreational fishing community will come on August 27th in Biloxi, MS when the Gulf Council is expected to vote again on the sector separation scheme. National, state and local recreational fishing organizations are calling upon members to do whatever it takes to get to Mississippi for this meeting. 



"There are free buses available from Mexico Beach and Panama City to get you there and back quickly and safely," said Capt. Adams, adding that folks interested in taking the ride to stand up for the recreational fishing community could contact him in Mexico Beach at 850-381-1313, or Capt. Anderson's Marina in Panama City at 850-234-3435.



RFA executive director Jim Donofrio hopes the effort to pack busses for the trip to Biloxi on August 27th will pick up momentum in other areas of the Gulf as well. "More information about this important vote and what it means for the recreational fishing community as a whole is arriving at local tackle shops and marinas, we hope people can pick up one of the flyers and figure out a way to get to that Mississippi meeting later this month. 



In a widely circulated email bulletin this past January, Donofrio encouraged anglers to speak out against sector separation, explaining how the federal government is using the regional council process to divide the saltwater angling community into have's and have not's, without any reasonable harvest data to guide their decision. "The Commerce Department and its National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) is allowing the recreational fishing sector to be ripped apart piece by piece, without ever meeting their congressional mandate to provide better data," he said at the time.



"If the council votes to divide us, and the private anglers get less quota because a handful of dual-permit holders and restaurateurs are granted red snapper ownership, it's essentially the end of the road for the recreational fishing sector, and a new era for those associated with Environmental Defense Fund," Donofrio said. 



RFA believes that with sensible reauthorization of the Magnuson Stevens Act this fall and commitment from NOAA Fisheries to fix the recreational data collection problems, the need for schemes like sector separation and recreational catch shares will be rendered moot. For that reason, it's important that as many saltwater anglers as possible are in attendance for the August 27th meeting in Biloxi to show the overwhelming opposition to the sector separation effort. 



Council members need to see their constituents out in Biloxi - they need to see how important this issue is to you before they cast your vote at the Council!



Click here for the Biloxi or Bust brochure being distributed at local tackle shops and marinas throughout the Gulf of Mexico. 






About Recreational Fishing Alliance
The Recreational Fishing Alliance is a national, grassroots political action organization representing recreational fishermen and the recreational fishing industry on marine fisheries issues. The RFA Mission is to safeguard the rights of saltwater anglers, protect marine, boat and tackle industry jobs, and ensure the long-term sustainability of our Nation's saltwater fisheries. For more information, call 888-JOIN-RFA or visit www.joinrfa.org.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*NOTHING is safe*

:furious: This just in...NOAA has announced that the AJ season will end August 25. NOTHING is safe!


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

Harbison said:


> :furious: This just in...NOAA has announced that the AJ season will end August 25. NOTHING is safe!


 Ahhh. We already knew that.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

The word gets around fast. Charlene Ponce, Gulf Council, just put out the word 
8/13/2014 @ 8:28 A.M.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Harbinson, I admire your effort, brother, but this seems to be a done deal. This has become comedy. We've voiced our opinions in public comment sessions at NMFS/Gulf Council meetings for years and what we had to say was ignored for the most part. Now, ALL OF A SUDDEN, opinions voiced at meeting mean something. 

The meeting in OB last week was attended by 90% charter captains in favor of SS, and 3 or 4 recs and myself showed up in opposition to the scam. Same thing in Mobile. Keyboard Cowboys hate on Charter captains here, but won't even attend a meeting. In short, we're giving it away instead of them taking anything. You can't have a fight if you don't show up for it.


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## Billybob+ (Jul 12, 2011)

It's all about total closure of the gulf to recreation, private fisherman. There's no way the Feds can collect "payment" for "Their" natural resource that we're "taking" so there's no need to let us "have" it.

no amount of "meeting" no amount of argument will stop it. the year 2020 is their target date for closure of all Rec fishing.


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

*Don't be too ready to cough up big bucks for fishing gear!*

You may not get to use it for long!
Get ready to sell the boats and fishing gear- or keep them for memorabilia?


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

badonskybuccaneers said:


> You may not get to use it for long!
> Get ready to sell the boats and fishing gear- or keep them for memorabilia?....... I'm all up for conservation and taking responsibility for our resources- but I also think we should be able to keep one or two for the table. There has to be a meeting in the middle! What happens when the tackle shops and charter boats are run out of business.... And the boat and tackle manufacturers start loosing money because nobody wants to catch and release in the GOM? They don't care because they are getting too much money to do what they are doing now! They don't see the people here and all along the coast who make a living on the recreational fishery? Sounds like a dictatorship to me!?!?
> Well, if someone comes up with a truly good idea- I'm on board!
> 
> This is too depressing, I'm going back to the "Humor" section and tell jokes instead.


 Vote and tell them why you are voting their azz out of office.


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

2RC's II said:


> Vote and tell them why you are voting their azz out of office.


Vote- think we can fight the government? They're going to take the fish - then the guns. Mark my words.


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## 2RC's II (Feb 2, 2012)

I'll vote for you alphabet. But seriously voting them out is firing them. I'm doing my part.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Until a class action lawsuit is filed in a friendly court (Constitutional) Forget it.


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## SouthAlabamaSlayer (Oct 13, 2011)

Burnt Drag said:


> Until a class action lawsuit is filed in a friendly court (Constitutional) Forget it.



I've got a good lawyer who would work for cheap if he knew there was possibly a large profit in the end.


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## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

Burnt Drag said:


> Until a class action lawsuit is filed in a friendly court (Constitutional) Forget it.


This is the only thing that will stop the bleeding. But we cant even get together to think its a good or bad idea.


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## capt'n slim (Feb 8, 2008)

$hits about to get real as far fishing goes, with this stupid AJ closure, people, well at least i think people are getting to their wits end. This is all a bunch of Bull$hit we as rec fisherman have been warned about for years and now its here. Next year it will start with our snapper season going from 2 days to 12 hours with an "emergency closure" due to overfishing, if we even get a season next year. At some point we have to say enough is enough and do something about it.

Am i guilty of standing by and not doing anything, yes i am, am i guilty of thinking someone else will fight the fight for me? guilty as charged. Do i want my kids and their kids to be able to enjoy fishing and fresh fish on the table? You damn right i do. Now the big question is what the hell can we do besides sitting behind our keyboards and venting our frustration with all the BS thats going on? Thats the question i have no idea about. I read all the "laws" and proposed orders from NOAA and NMFS and all the other groups that want us out, but in reality i still feel like i don't really understand whats going on because of all the legal mumbo jumbo in those articles and proposals. I would love to attend all the meetings for public input but what can i say to the council that will really make a difference? because i don't really understand it myself other than the fact they want to take away my freedom to fish. If it comes down to it i'm going to keep my damn fish and i don't care what happens to me for it i've been to jail and i'll go back just to prove my damn point atleast my kids and grand kids would be proud to say grandpa's in jail because he believes we should be able to keep our damn fish and eat them too and he didn't stand on the sidelines and watch the government take our freedom. Basically I need someone to break all this crap down to stupid ******* terms i can understand so i know what i'm up against.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

The problem is every Gulf Council member, including king Roy, is appointed; not elected. 
Even the head of NOAA is appointed by the Commerce Department. 

Guys, I understand everyone's frustration. The end of our way of life is near. Can we STOP it? Probably not. But that does not mean we should give up without a fight. 
In the case of what was once our fishery, money, really BIG money, not only talks but shouts. Look at the amount of $$$ we are up against:
EDF: $192,000,000
Pew: $5,000,000,000
Walton foundation (Walmart): $93,000,000,000
"Sounds like a dictatorship to me!?!?" Welcome to a force more powerful than the United State's Senate & Congress combined. Welcome to the land of NOAA. Welcome to NOAA law!


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## capt'n slim (Feb 8, 2008)

Harbison, you must be one heck of a guy to be a charter captain but also fighting the fight for us rec guys. I hope one day to get down there a take a trip to the middle grounds with you guys.


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## agbiv (Jun 29, 2014)

*And when we decide the "law" is unconstitutional?*

And so do we go down the road of becoming scoff laws? Or act, as our forebearers, who had the "constitution", bravery and foresight to call to action and follow through. Voicing opinions, attending meetings, putting pressure on our politicians, calling out the vote are all well and good but I see us either ignoring the laws and/or, as those who founded our country did, take more drastic action. Mark my words--it will come to that.


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## Hound_dog (Dec 18, 2010)

capt'n slim said:


> $hits about to get real as far fishing goes, with this stupid AJ closure, people, well at least i think people are getting to their wits end. This is all a bunch of Bull$hit we as rec fisherman have been warned about for years and now its here. Next year it will start with our snapper season going from 2 days to 12 hours with an "emergency closure" due to overfishing, if we even get a season next year. At some point we have to say enough is enough and do something about it.
> 
> Am i guilty of standing by and not doing anything, yes i am, am i guilty of thinking someone else will fight the fight for me? guilty as charged. Do i want my kids and their kids to be able to enjoy fishing and fresh fish on the table? You damn right i do. Now the big question is what the hell can we do besides sitting behind our keyboards and venting our frustration with all the BS thats going on? Thats the question i have no idea about. I read all the "laws" and proposed orders from NOAA and NMFS and all the other groups that want us out, but in reality i still feel like i don't really understand whats going on because of all the legal mumbo jumbo in those articles and proposals. I would love to attend all the meetings for public input but what can i say to the council that will really make a difference? because i don't really understand it myself other than the fact they want to take away my freedom to fish. If it comes down to it i'm going to keep my damn fish and i don't care what happens to me for it i've been to jail and i'll go back just to prove my damn point atleast my kids and grand kids would be proud to say grandpa's in jail because he believes we should be able to keep our damn fish and eat them too and he didn't stand on the sidelines and watch the government take our freedom. Basically I need someone to break all this crap down to stupid ******* terms i can understand so i know what i'm up against.



Couldn't have said it any better myself!!


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

JUST REVIEWED THE COMMENTS ON THE COUNCILS WEB SITE FOR AMENDMENT 40 AND WAS SHOCKED BY THE LACK OF COMMENTS FORM PENSACOLA. I THINK I SAW 5, INCLUDING GULF BREEZE. I KNOW WE ALL CAN'T ATTEND THE MEETINGS BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SEND AN E-MAIL OPPOSING IT IS NOT EXCUSABLE. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SAY I OPPOSE AMENDMENT 40 AND DON'T VOTE FOR IT. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE. DO I HAVE FAITH IN THIS COUNCIL, HELL NO. BUT, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO TO BILOXI ON AUGUST 27? PROBABLY NOT, SO SEND THE E-MAIL TO [email protected] 

IT'S THAT EASY. LESS EFFORT THAN IT TAKES TO VOTE. IF A COUPLE OF THOUSAND, NEVER MIND, MAYBE A COUPLE OF HUNDRED E-MAILS MIGHT MAKE A DIFFERENCE. LOOKS TO ME LIKE RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN DON'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO SEND E-MAILS SINCE OUR AREA IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE COMMENTS SECTION. TEXAS AND LOUISIANA SEEM TO CARE ENOUGH TO SEND THE E-MAILS, BUT NOT US. PATHETIC. ALSO MAKES ME THINK FISHERMEN IN PENSACOLA DON'T VOTE EITHER, AFTER ALL IT TAKES MORE EFFORT TO VOTE THAN IT DOES TO SEND AN E-MAIL. NO WONDER WE GET THE SHAFT EVERY TIME. 

NO MATTER WHAT IT INVOLVES, FISHING REGULATIONS OR THE PRESIDENT, IF YOU DON'T EXPRESS YOUR OPPOSITION AT THE POLLS OR THE FORUM THAT IS AFFORDED YOU, (in this case sending a simple e-mail), IT IS THE SAME AS VOTING FOR THAT PERSON OR THAT REGULATION. 

NOW THE AMBERJACK HIT THE LIST, WHAT NEXT, OR RATHER WHAT'S LEFT? GROUPER. MINGO, DOLPHIN FISH? STILL DON'T HAVE TIME?

FRYDADDY


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

tbaxl said:


> This is the only thing that will stop the bleeding. But we cant even get together to think its a good or bad idea.


Please don't forget the $500,000 price tag that goes with that lawsuit. Who's going to raise that?


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## spinfactor (Sep 22, 2013)

Harbison is right!!! We need to organize, therefore, the first order of business for all of us is to join The Recreational Fishing Alliance a.k.a. RFA ( http://joinrfa.org/ ) .... its only $35 but a year or $90 for a three year membership. Hell, most of us spend that in gas for one trip!!!

We need a bigger voice to get their attention, to let them know we're watching and are ready to vote!!! We can do that by coming together to be that BIGGER VOICE!!!

UNITED, with purpose, with one loud voice will get our legislators attention. Trust me, as an ex-union official large numbers of voters banding together as a single voice will get their attention like money on the table for the taking. None of them want to be voted out of office, none!

Fortunately, politicians will practically do anything to remain in office within the law of course. And I don't blame them, the bennies are good and it beets working for a living! And the RFA seems to be the only organization that believes in what we do. 

So Join today then ask what you can do to help. Ask what their doing to help us and if you don't hear what you like then threaten to remove your membership - money talks!!!

More information as to what we're up against is here ---> http://joinrfa.org/whats-your-freedom-to-fish-worth/

I've just joined myself and if you don't put your money where your mouth is then you deserve everything that council dishes out. 

We gotta get organized!!!


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## boatman (Oct 1, 2007)

I just joined.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Burnt Drag said:


> Until a class action lawsuit is filed in a friendly court (Constitutional) Forget it.


This is what needs to happen, some way some how !!!!!!!!


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

I think the Magnus Stevens act says the fishery is supposed to be managed for the best interest of recreational fishing.
Someone correct me in I am wrong, but I think I read that in it.
If it is true then that should be good grounds for litigation just like the commercial guys did this spring ?


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Could individual States designate Snapper as a game fish in State waters and then designate Charter boats as commercial and let them buy their catch shares from the commercial 51% quota.
This would leave all state waters to the recs
Might be a stupid idea


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Mark Collins said:


> .... designate Charter boats as commercial and let them buy their catch shares from the commercial 51% quota. ....


I don't have anything personal against the idea of Charter boats, but I'd rather get rid of "Charter Boat" fishing licenses altogether. Let their _passengers_ buy their own individual rec licenses & abide by the same seasons & limits as anyone else. They are _recreational_ fishermen, are they not? - and licenses can now be purchased pretty much 24/7 & 365 days a year online or at any Wally-World. 

As I understand a Charter Captain license to take out & fish 4 people + captain is only about $200 bucks a year. Imagine how many people get to fish for how many days of the year for that $200 bucks. (_My out-of-State buddy who comes down several times a year to fish with me has to pay almost $50 for his individual annual saltwater-only out of State license alone.)_

And if any particular species is in short enough supply to require rec restrictions it should be completely barred from commercial fishing until it is considered to be abundant enough for a commercial harvest.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

AndyS said:


> I don't have anything personal against the idea of Charter boats, *but I'd rather get rid of "Charter Boat" fishing licenses altogether. Let their passengers buy their own individual rec licenses & abide by the same seasons & limits as anyone else. They are recreational fishermen, are they not?* - and licenses can now be purchased pretty much 24/7 & 365 days a year online or at any Wally-World.
> 
> As I understand a Charter Captain license to take out & fish 4 people + captain is only about $200 bucks a year. Imagine how many people get to fish for how many days of the year for that $200 bucks. (_My out-of-State buddy who comes down several times a year to fish with me has to pay almost $50 for his individual annual saltwater-only out of State license alone.)_
> 
> And if any particular species is in short enough supply to require rec restrictions it should be completely barred from commercial fishing until it is considered to be abundant enough for a commercial harvest.


This is how it should work, and it is how it works in freshwater !


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

agbiv said:


> And so do we go down the road of becoming scoff laws? Or act, as our forebearers, who had the "constitution", bravery and foresight to call to action and follow through. Voicing opinions, attending meetings, putting pressure on our politicians, calling out the vote are all well and good but I see us either ignoring the laws and/or, as those who founded our country did, take more drastic action. Mark my words--it will come to that.


 :thumbup:
I'll be there at your side my friend !


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## badonskybuccaneers (Aug 19, 2013)

my initial question would be "are they participating in the regular GOMFM meetings?"


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Guys, I am not any kind of a Captain. I am simply a retired Florida native who loves to fish, hunt, and share with fellow sportsmen/women. 
I am having the time of my life. This is a very regular thing:

I also love to hunt. My darling daughter, Dee, has come back home to be with her dad. I love her so much:

Guys, we cannot all attend meeting to voice our opinions, but the RFA can. Our RFA is very strong & works for the recreational fisherman 24/7. 
Had enough of A 9 day American red snapper season. If history does indeed repeat itself, we will not even have that next year. How about the closing of AJ season 08/25/2014? And, guess what? Grouper will be next. The stronger the RFA, the stronger we are! Bob & Dee


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

spinfactor said:


> Harbison is right!!! We need to organize, therefore, the first order of business for all of us is to join The Recreational Fishing Alliance a.k.a. RFA ( http://joinrfa.org/ ) .... its only $35 but a year or $90 for a three year membership. Hell, most of us spend that in gas for one trip!!!
> 
> We need a bigger voice to get their attention, to let them know we're watching and are ready to vote!!! We can do that by coming together to be that BIGGER VOICE!!!
> 
> ...



And there you have it in a nutshell! What did that $35 just get you? This is what it's all about. The reason CCA and RFA are causing such termoil in this fishery. It is nothing but propaganda and fear mongering to sell....wait for it.....MEMBERSHIPS!!!! Ding ding ding we have a winner folks


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*To put a STOP to EDF's NOAA*

:devil: 

"The reason CCA and RFA are causing such termoil (sic) in this fishery. It is nothing but propaganda and fear mongering to sell."

Anyone really buying into that EDF 'propaganda' deserves exactly what we are getting...9 day American red snapper season; AJ's closing down 8/25; and grouper closure soon to be announced. 
Other than being a member, I have absolutely nothing to do with the RFA. I just happen to be a sportsman who really enjoys what our great sport once had to offer. I do not appreciate having OUR sport, OUR heritage, stolen from us by those who see only greed. How many billions can we make by selling back to the American people what was once theirs to begin with? 
To join the RFA is to join the fight against catch shares 'Paid Fishing'; to join the RFA is to join the fight to take back what has been STOLEN from us; to join the RFA is to put a STOP to EDF's NOAA. Bob H.


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## Loruna (Aug 3, 2013)

frydaddy said:


> JUST REVIEWED THE COMMENTS ON THE COUNCILS WEB SITE FOR AMENDMENT 40 AND WAS SHOCKED BY THE LACK OF COMMENTS FORM PENSACOLA. I THINK I SAW 5, INCLUDING GULF BREEZE. I KNOW WE ALL CAN'T ATTEND THE MEETINGS BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SEND AN E-MAIL OPPOSING IT IS NOT EXCUSABLE. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SAY I OPPOSE AMENDMENT 40 AND DON'T VOTE FOR IT. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE. DO I HAVE FAITH IN THIS COUNCIL, HELL NO. BUT, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO TO BILOXI ON AUGUST 27? PROBABLY NOT, SO SEND THE E-MAIL TO [email protected]
> 
> 
> FRYDADDY


Dang, I'm the one in Gulf Breeze and I probably told a dozen folks around here about this.

To make this easy just CLICK HERE and sign in to submit a comment. NOTE: Comment forms are optimized for Internet Explorer, Google Chrome, and Safari. Firefox users may experience difficulty accessing comment forms. 

If you don't know exactly what to say just read the comments already posted by CLICKING HERE and put those comment into your own words.

Thanks Harbison for everything you do.
Cheers!
Eric


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## evacuee (Oct 16, 2007)

Well, I just paid the $35 to join the RFA and this entire subject is new to me. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know anything about it. Do any of you RFA members know if the RFA ever attends things like boating/fishing shows or the Outcast Fall sales? My guess is that they need to drum up support and membership to get things rolling. It could be that fishermen don't go to the meetings because they are not aware of what's going on.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

This thread has already gotten the RFA 3 new members. That's pretty awesome. Where's that pesky joincca.org URL so we can spread this out evenly between those to groups? FYI red grouper closure was announced back in May and is set to close Sept 16th. 

Your not going to stop this unless there is a better plan presented. That's not going to happen because your too busy fighting the CFH and what they want. Why have RFA or CCA yet to come forward with an alternative? I'll take any answers you give me. 
My answer is because if they come forward with any plan at all it will cost them memberships. The saying you can please some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time is true, but if either one comes up with an FMP you can bet your bottom dollar about 50% of its members will not approve of the plan and express disapproval by not renew memberships. RFA and CCA are at an all time high in recruitment because of this 9 day season. They blame it on the evil CFH for stealing fish when it was state noncompliance that took a 40 day season away from all of us.


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## Redtracker (Dec 28, 2011)

*my post on the Counsel*

No to sector separation. If the Red Snapper are endangered then stop the commercial fishing and make them a game fish. That's what happened to Red Drum. That's what happened to large mouth bass. Stop taking bribe money. Do not separate the private from CFH. Make the recreational Angler on the CFH vessel go get a license just like me and follow the same rules. The commercial Guys pay 3 percent to NMF, THEY ARE FISHING FOR FREE. They are fishing public waters and not paying a fair share of rent like a normal business would have to do to use public resources. I might be wrong on some of this but, without the True Recreational fishermen the ECONOMIC EMPACT WILL BE HUGE. I spend thousands of dollars a year to catch fish and no way is my cost recovered from my limits. I GUESS I AM NOT PAYING OFF THE RIGHT FOLKS. Stop this crazy mess and take care of the recreational Angler that keeps this country going.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Lopealong (Bobby Kelly)

A better Plan has already been implemented by your own Alabama DNR. Kinda strange you aren't supporting it.

Our 9 day season was a DIRECT result of your EDF-funded bethren's lawsuit - nothing more, nothing less.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

I believe the sector separation is a done deal and I'm kind of surprised that the tackle shops haven't mentioned this or I missed it. A couple weeks back when a Florida fishing license is processed there is a new question asked, "Do you plan to fish for reef fish" and the current cost listed is$0.00. So it looks like there may be a reef fish fee just like a lobster tag add on coming down the road. I haven't seen anything in writing about it but the most controversial reef fish we have is the ever popular Red Snapper. I wonder how that will affect holders of 5 year and lifetime license holders.


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## polar21 (Nov 5, 2007)

I posted on the THT regarding the same subject and like most I feel that the "public meetings" are just a check in the box and the decision has been made behind close doors. So how am I going to contribute and/or rectify this problem? Here is my three step plan:

1. Our boat motor blew up a couple of months ago and I have been too busy with other more important things in life (wife, kids, church, friends, work, etc) than to really dedicate any time to it. 
2. Scuba diving has become much more enjoyable than fishing. With all of these random regulations (random snapper closures, AJ's closure date magically appearing) it takes way too much effort to see what is in season, how many you can catch, what the length limitations are, etc. Now days, I go out on the water to enjoy a dive and most of the time I dont even take a speargun. 
3. The next boat I buy will be a ski or pontoon boat. Its much easier to get a bunch of people together to go out for an afternoon of skiing vs. getting a crew together to fish. Plus, its a lot less expensive. 

So I guess I am conforming to their idea that us rec guys shouldnt fish.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Tom Hilton said:


> Lopealong (Bobby Kelly)
> 
> A better Plan has already been implemented by your own Alabama DNR. Kinda strange you aren't supporting it.
> 
> Our 9 day season was a DIRECT result of your EDF-funded bethren's lawsuit - nothing more, nothing less.


Blaming a nine day season on my EDF funded brethren is like blaming a realtor for asking you the house when it gets foreclosed on. It has nothing to do with the problem. I don't see you pointing your fingers at TX or FL for taking away 19 days from our season. 

The AL program is a good start but I thought it was eerily close to MRIP reportings. Also the AL program will never be accepted because it's considered voluntary reporting program


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Take your pick. Either stay happy fishing state waters or tell your state you wanna fish in federal waters and urge them to go compliant. Status quo is goung to give you ZERO federal days


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

LopeAlong said:


> Blaming a nine day season on my EDF funded brethren is like blaming a realtor for asking you the house when it gets foreclosed on. It has nothing to do with the problem. I don't see you pointing your fingers at TX or FL for taking away 19 days from our season.
> 
> The AL program is a good start but I thought it was eerily close to MRIP reportings. Also the AL program will never be accepted because it's considered voluntary reporting program


 Isnt your charter boat reporting proposal also voluntary? By the way how has being so organized helped yall (CFH) with the amberjack season?


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

What CFH reporting program are you referring too? If I have my way amend 40 will include VMS's for all participants. 

We haven't started fighting amberjacks yet but you can bet your bottom dollar all of the AL guys are going to ask to keep the 30" limit and not raise it to 35". Asking that question is like asking how our organization has helped the red grouper closure. Nothing to do with the real issues.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

LopeAlong said:


> What CFH reporting program are you referring too? If I have my way amend 40 will include VMS's for all participants.
> 
> We haven't started fighting amberjacks yet but you can bet your bottom dollar all of the AL guys are going to ask to keep the 30" limit and not raise it to 35". Asking that question is like asking how our organization has helped the red grouper closure. Nothing to do with the real issues.


So why are you not pushing for VMS devices on ALL rec fishing boats? If accountability and all that stuff matters, why accountability for a selected chosen few? Shouldn't everyone be able to join the idiots pushing for VMSs ?????? :whistling:


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## frydaddy (Oct 1, 2007)

Lopealong

the real issue pertains to all fish, thought you would see that.

Frydaddy


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

I get it Jim, your one of the few CFH that don't believe in this. Can you honestly tell me that a 9 day snapper season helped your business?i know you think we are all the same but we are not. The anglers you carry don't have the same opportunity your next door neighbor does because you carry federal permits. How many times did you back in to see red snapper being cleaned? I'm not so sure what you have against VMS's but it's the easiest solution for counting the fish caught onboard my boats. 

Everyone on this forum believes that I'm stealing fish because we only landed 27% of the ARS in the gulf last year and that total will be even lower next year due to stare noncompliance. Why would CFH operators agree to any percentage where we didn't have the same access as everyone else (2003).


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## KingCrab (Apr 29, 2012)

I quit reading first page. Its all about money, Ours not theirs. U understand what we're dealing with in every aspect of GOV now. Revolution is the only way. Or Deny whats hap'n.:no:


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

What Lopealong (Booby Kelly) refuses to say when he mentions our 9 day season is that it was a DIRECT result of his enviro-funded brehtren's lawsuit, who just happen to be pushing Amendment 40. Coincidence? No.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Tom Hilton said:


> What Lopealong (Booby Kelly) refuses to say when he mentions our 9 day season is that it was a DIRECT result of his enviro-funded brehtren's lawsuit, who just happen to be pushing Amendment 40. Coincidence? No.


I'm not sure how you think a federal mandate to stop overfishing and an accountable FMP for half of the fishery couldn't not be a coincidence. We were over fishing the TAC. Year after year.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> I'm not sure how you think a federal mandate to stop overfishing and an accountable FMP for half of the fishery couldn't not be a coincidence. *We were over fishing the TAC. Year after year*.


WHO SAYS
No one truly knows how many snapper are caught by the rec side :no:
Anyone who does say they know how many snapper are caught yearly is a dirt bag liar


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

Booby Kelly (Lopealong), Tom Ard, and the rest of the enviro-funded crowd aren't interesting in any solution that doesn't include the gifting of our Public Trust Resource to them, using bogus data to inflate their allocation % in order to steal the fish from the rightful owners. 

Really no other way to explain it.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

LopeAlong said:


> Blaming a nine day season on my EDF funded brethren is like blaming a realtor for asking you the house when it gets foreclosed on. It has nothing to do with the problem. I don't see you pointing your fingers at TX or FL for taking away 19 days from our season.
> 
> *The AL program is a good start but I thought it was eerily close to MRIP reportings. Also the AL program will never be accepted because it's considered voluntary reporting program[/U]*


*[/U]*[/U][/I][/B]

The Alabama website says it is mandatory


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## mjg21 (Sep 5, 2012)

Now some of the people that voted for the Net Ban see how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot! They took our heritage and way of life in 1995! All I can say is keep fighting! I don't think they want anybody to fish at all!


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

All states should have the mandatory reporting. 
this is the only way to get a true count of Snapper caught


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

mjg21 said:


> Now some of the people that voted for the Net Ban see how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot! They took our heritage and way of life in 1995! All I can say is keep fighting! *I don't think they want anybody to fish at all!*




Thats the plan
So you will have to go to Joe Pattys to BUY your fish


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Game fish designation is the only thing that makes sense to stop the fighting between the CFH and Recs


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## flounderslayerman (Jun 3, 2011)

LopeAlong said:


> And there you have it in a nutshell! What did that $35 just get you? This is what it's all about. The reason CCA and RFA are causing such termoil in this fishery. It is nothing but propaganda and fear mongering to sell....wait for it.....MEMBERSHIPS!!!! Ding ding ding we have a winner folks


Bobby, it's pretty obvious you don't care about the fishery for everyone but only for yourself and charter buddies. All you care about is your own pockets.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

LopeAlong said:


> Take your pick. Either stay happy fishing state waters or tell your state you wanna fish in federal waters and urge them to go compliant. Status quo is goung to give you ZERO federal days


Didnt the NMFS tell the states 6 or 7 years ago that if they stayed compliant for a few years and let the stocks build back up the season would be lengthened again? And, after the states did what they were asked to do the feds still shortened the season. I guess the shit they're feeding you CFH guys tastes a little different. But, you know what, its still shit!


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

By the way, I joined the RFA also with a 3 year membership plus a $200 donation. If it weren't for the NRA, we'd have no guns by now. Maybe the RFA can stop some of the bleeding pertaining to our fisheries.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

LopeAlong said:


> I get it Jim, your one of the few CFH that don't believe in this. Can you honestly tell me that a 9 day snapper season helped your business?i know you think we are all the same but we are not. The anglers you carry don't have the same opportunity your next door neighbor does because you carry federal permits. How many times did you back in to see red snapper being cleaned? I'm not so sure what you have against VMS's but it's the easiest solution for counting the fish caught onboard my boats.
> 
> Everyone on this forum believes that I'm stealing fish because we only landed 27% of the ARS in the gulf last year and that total will be even lower next year due to stare noncompliance. Why would CFH operators agree to any percentage where we didn't have the same access as everyone else (2003).


Actually, my customers didn't see one ARS being cleaned anywhere in the marina after a trip. My customers also know I'm fighting on their behalf for a longer federal season. Also, there are plenty of alternatives to the VMS for accountability. M-S has provisions that state that NMFS can't saddle charter boats with different regs than pure recs. Unless, that is, the EDF/Pew NMFS is able to shoehorn SS into place in the GOM. It's like this, Bobby, you've been able to see what this exempted permit that the "Chosen Few" were able to do with it, and like a person with a bad kidney looking for a donor, you'll sell your very soul to get that transplant. I won't. I see the bigger picture and I know first-hand what is going to happen when the pie is cut. There will be kings and paupers. Don't you remember what that Nigerian was asking at that meeting? He was proffering options as to how many fish each CFH vessel would receive.... 
I sold my few snapper shares left from the theft of my 200 lb per trip comm permit for $37.50 per pound. This SS is going to make some people wealthy beyond belief...... I barely got out of the commercial business with the skin of my teeth. As Tommy Holmes said of this quagmire regarding Nancy Pelosi's crap statement.... "We have to vote for this bill so we can see whats in it!" WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT! :whistling:


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

LopeAlong said:


> I'm not sure how you think a federal mandate to stop overfishing and an accountable FMP for half of the fishery couldn't not be a coincidence. We were over fishing the TAC. Year after year.


Bobby, I can't believe you. You remember the October season last year? 12 days? Who gave that to us? Why was it 12 days and not 4? You really don't get it, do you? These freaks had from July till October to crunch the numbers. The ink wasn't dry on the report that we'd overfished the TAC when EDF funded comm fishermen filed that suit that gave us 9 days. You can spell, you can type, you can hold a boat over a fishing spot, but you don't get this? I'm amazed. This was RIGGED, DUDE! :whistling:


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Why joining the RFA isd a good choice:


Since early in 2007 (when the Magnuson Stevens Act was reauthorized with the help of environmental organizations), the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) has been lobbying for sensible change to our federal fisheries law, pushing for limited ‘flexibility’ to allow regional councils some latitude in dealing with restrictive rebuilding deadlines and the administration of strict annual catch limits and accountability measures. We had rallies in Washington DC in 2010 and 2012, calling for ‘flexibility’ and openly criticizing our federal fisheries agency for failing to address the 2006 mandate to replace the recreational data collection program with a methodology based on the 2006 National Research Council analysis. RFA has said all along – in fact, we’ve been criticized extensively for this too – that the federal law is broken and the restrictive, somewhat arbitrary components of the 2007 reauthorization of Magnuson would lead to pain. This will continue to get worse, and our communities further divided, if we don’t (A) fix the law, and (B) fix the recreational data collection.


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## Mark Collins (Dec 27, 2012)

Harbison said:


> Why joining the RFA isd a good choice:
> 
> 
> Since early in 2007 (when the Magnuson Stevens Act was reauthorized with the help of environmental organizations), the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) has been lobbying for sensible change to our federal fisheries law, pushing for limited ‘flexibility’ to allow regional councils some latitude in dealing with restrictive rebuilding deadlines and the administration of strict annual catch limits and accountability measures. We had rallies in Washington DC in 2010 and 2012, calling for ‘flexibility’ and openly criticizing our federal fisheries agency for failing to address the 2006 mandate to replace the recreational data collection program with a methodology based on the 2006 National Research Council analysis. RFA has said all along – in fact, we’ve been criticized extensively for this too – that the federal law is broken and the restrictive, somewhat arbitrary components of the 2007 reauthorization of Magnuson would lead to pain. *This will continue to get worse, and our communities further divided, if we don’t (A) fix the law, and (B) fix the recreational data collection.*


:thumbup:


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*stand TOGETHER!*

And to do it we must stand TOGETHER!


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

flounderslayerman said:


> Bobby, it's pretty obvious you don't care about the fishery for everyone but only for yourself and charter buddies. All you care about is your own pockets.


Elliot how many days did you enjoy fishing in state waters? I saw that you landed some hogs into July right? All I want for my customers is the same opportunity. This isn't going to take any days away from you because there won't be federal season again. Especially if a payback provision is put in place next year. There's a payback provision in the Sourh Atlantic and the got 3 days at 1 fish. Like I said if this doesn't go through there's going to be a lot of charterboats in state waters catching those hogs you had all to yourself.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

More terroristic threats from the EDF-funded googans; no more federal season, we are coming for your state water fish, etc. 

They have a problem with 30B but instead of fighting 30B they are using it as a crutch to push Amendment 40.

As an Alabama charter captain Booby Kelly should be supporting his state DNR in their efforts to provide the REAL solution to this dilemma - accountability through better data, but then again, that wouldn't line his pockets from the proceeds of our fish now would it?


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

Starting next year Florida will implement it's accountability measure for our fisheries.

*NEW:* At their June meeting, the FWC approved the creation of the Gulf Reef Fish Data Reporting System, a mandatory requirement for private recreational anglers fishing from a boat to harvest, attempt to harvest, or possess red snapper, gag, greater amberjack, lesser amberjack, banded rudderfish, almaco jack, red grouper, black grouper, vermilion snapper, or gray triggerfish in the Gulf of Mexico, excluding Monroe County. This requirement becomes mandatory April 1, 2015.


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## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

LopeAlong said:


> Like I said if this doesn't go through there's going to be a lot of charterboats in state waters catching those hogs you had all to yourself.


 I sent a recommendation to FWC for them to explore options on State Charter boat licenses being issued to FLORIDA residential captains only. I have not thought through all the details yet, but to prevent the "Alabama" charter boats from coming and "raping" our waters like they claim, Florida should not issue charter licenses to non resident charter boats/captains.


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## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

burnt drag said:


> bobby, i can't believe you. You remember the october season last year? 12 days? Who gave that to us? Why was it 12 days and not 4? You really don't get it, do you? These freaks had from july till october to crunch the numbers. The ink wasn't dry on the report that we'd overfished the tac when edf funded comm fishermen filed that suit that gave us 9 days. You can spell, you can type, you can hold a boat over a fishing spot, but you don't get this? I'm amazed. This was rigged, dude! :whistling:


*crickets!*


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

Crickets because I've been fishing back to back 2days out trying to catch anything but a red snapper. I believe it was Crabtree that gave the final day so over the fall season even when the best available data showed we overfished the TAC, again. 

Anyone hear Hilton's comment to the council or even when called out on numerous forums he still states that he wants status quo for more years. That means more turmoil and more strife and more CCA memberships to sell. These programs the states are coming up with are not truly mandatory. The NMFS considers them voluntary because it's an option on whether people call the fish in, case and point only 65% of rec anglers did it. 
Besides as status quo follows the CFH will not have a snapper season next year. 
Say it with me...STATE NONCOMPLIANCE WILL EXHAUST THE ENTIRE TAC!
and you can't stop me from fishing in FL next year. Both my boats have valid FL license until aug 1


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## tbaxl (Mar 13, 2013)

Ok Florida boys, since you probably read the above do this, you see a Charter boat, any boat but especially one from Bama, run with them fish with them call your buddies to trail em and fish with them. The true rec guys need to make it difficult on the CFH guys that sold their soul to the devil.


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## Kim (Aug 5, 2008)

What good is that really going to do? Odds are you would probably have more fun and catch some fish if you just went about your fishing trip rather than trail some boat around all day. On the other hand it your time and fuel burn them up as you see fit but it looks like boat rage to me.


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## george hirst (Feb 28, 2014)

*thieves and liars*

when the govt figures out how to count our recreational catch and can tax us for it will be able to catch what want any boat or person collecting money for any kind of fishing should take their share from the commercial side. money=commercial endeavor!!!


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

It's all about money. The next to NO seasons & rediculous possession limits are all preludes to recreational catch shares; catch shares more appropriately known as 'PAID FISHING!'


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

LopeAlong said:


> Crickets because I've been fishing back to back 2days out trying to catch anything but a red snapper. I believe it was Crabtree that gave the final day so over the fall season even when the best available data showed we overfished the TAC, again.
> 
> Anyone hear Hilton's comment to the council or even when called out on numerous forums he still states that he wants status quo for more years. That means more turmoil and more strife and more CCA memberships to sell. These programs the states are coming up with are not truly mandatory. The NMFS considers them voluntary because it's an option on whether people call the fish in, case and point only 65% of rec anglers did it.
> Besides as status quo follows the CFH will not have a snapper season next year.
> ...


The state of Alabama thinks way more than 65% of rec anglers reported. Why don't you? The state says the Alabama Charter boats caught more than the NMFS gives yall credit for. Did only 65% of yall report?


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## HAG 90 10 (Nov 24, 2007)

Maybe the answer is to categorize the CFH captains as commercial, their "sales" would be the fish caught by their clients. Anyone selling the resource or making earnings off the resource should be categorized commercial. Recreational fishing could then return to simply be the pleasure of catching fish.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Did the RFA have representation at the Biloxi meeting last night? CCA? Any recreational alliance?


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## Ozeanjager (Feb 2, 2008)

I just don't see the math. In Florida there are 8 million rec anglers that produce 65 thousand jobs and 4.5 billion in revenue . Some one explain to me how 1500 boats can justify attacking this industry.


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## Tom Hilton (Oct 4, 2007)

CCA leaders were there. Not sure about RFA.


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## J0nesi (Jun 22, 2011)

well i tried the RFA site but i cant access it from my work computer so ill sign up at home. i will also try to make the next meeting here in town.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Did the CCA or RFA leaders have anything to say?


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

"Did the RFA have representation at the Biloxi meeting last night? CCA? Any recreational alliance?"
Jim, how well represented was the RFA? What was accomplished? Thanks! Bob

Sent directly to the RFA. I will post the reply ASAP.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

I sent him an email also, he told me they had people there. Didnt say what they did just that they were there. Maybe just to observe? I dont know. The whole damn thing is frustrating. Who knew when we were young that we would have to fight over something as simple as being able to catch a fish.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

*No reply!*

You got more of an answer than I did.
I was in college in the sixties. Fishing was fun! If you wanted a fresh fish dinner you went out and caught it. Today we must beg NOAA for a 9 day ARS season. If history means anything we won't even have that next year.


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## ollemar (Sep 18, 2013)

just signed up 

http://www.joinrfa.org/


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Still no reply?


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

The RFA remains the only real voice we have. They have made some mistakes, but they are still our best choice in fighting EDF's NOAA. 
Jim has been a little slow in replying due to a death in the family.


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## The LaJess II (Oct 3, 2007)

I contacted the Gulf Council to get the minutes from the meeting. Was told it will take a couple weeks. When the minutes get posted I will post on here so you guys can see who attended the meeting and their statements.


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## LopeAlong (May 23, 2011)

tbaxl said:


> Ok Florida boys, since you probably read the above do this, you see a Charter boat, any boat but especially one from Bama, run with them fish with them call your buddies to trail em and fish with them. The true rec guys need to make it difficult on the CFH guys that sold their soul to the devil.


You'd get bored way faster than I would I promise. We'd just set the AP on a waypoint 3 miles away and idle there in dead clutch. We do this 3 or 4 times you'd get pretty board. 

Someone please tell me why RFA left you all hanging and only one of you is rightfully pissed? Heck it even sold another membership. How can you still say RFA is the only voice you have left? They hung you out to dry!


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## AndyS (Nov 22, 2011)

Harbison said:


> You got more of an answer than I did.
> I was in college in the sixties. Fishing was fun! If you wanted a fresh fish dinner you went out and caught it. Today we must beg NOAA for a 9 day ARS season. If history means anything we won't even have that next year.


I didn't live here then & I was a kid in the 60's, but I bet you could buy a few fish for dinner off some angler at the dock as well? I remember my dad did. 

But don't get caught doing that nowadays!


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

"Someone please tell me why RFA left you all hanging and only one of you is rightfully pissed? Heck it even sold another membership. How can you still say RFA is the only voice you have left? They hung you out to dry!"

Is there really any wonder why the recreational fishermen are in the situation we are in? Just read the above! Talk about an EDF dream come true!
Want free access to our, or what was once OUR fishery? Want the interest of America's coastal anglers to be heard loud & clear? Or do you want to make Walmart even richer by listen to EDF propaganda pushing their catch shares/ sector separation agendas? Want to catch and keep a red snapper? NO PROBLEM! Walmart will gladly sell you a 'share' to catch your fish. EDF NOAA's version of catch shares could be more accurately called PAID FISHING! 

Anti-fishing groups and radical environmental interests are pushing an agenda on marine fisheries issues affecting America’s saltwater anglers. At the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA), we’re pushing back to protect your right to fish!

Incorporated in 1996 as a 501(c)(4) national, grassroots political action organization, RFA is in the trenches, lobbying, educating decision makers and ensuring that the interests of America’s coastal anglers are being heard loud and clear

I was in High School in the late fifties; early sixties. This was before the commercial industry became so strong. We could legally sell fish. I personally sold many. In the early seventies I started with Hubbard's. When we arrived back at the dock Sunday morning the wholesale fish markets were lined up to buy our fish. We often paid for our trip by selling our fish at the dock.


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## Lyin Too (Aug 31, 2009)

Still no reply huh? Sure is disappointing.


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## Harbison (Apr 18, 2012)

Absolutely!


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