# Ccw



## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

How many of you regularly practice with your carry weapon of choice? I just recently made the decision to get my CCW and have been surprised in what I hear from several people who carry. Some, it seems, take a 2hr course or have their DD214, buy a gun and a box of hollow points, shoot a couple cans, and think they are ready for anything that comes their way because they are now armed. The bigger the caliber, the higher level of confidence they seem to have in stopping an attack, it seems. Evidently, the mere shockwave of a .45 passing by, is enough to make a man go flying backwards. I was just curious if anyone has any regular training routines and would like to share them?


----------



## Gravity3694 (May 10, 2011)

Most training classes don't teach people how to carry. As in what is the mindset and responsibility that comes with carrying. Books on carry by say Ayoob are just as important if not more important than range time.


----------



## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Train, train, train at the range, empty at home, play all the scenarios with your personal carry in all types of situations, you cannot go wrong.


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

FrankwT said:


> Train, train, train at the range, empty at home, play all the scenarios with your personal carry in all types of situations, you cannot go wrong.


+1 :thumbsup:


----------



## user17168 (Oct 1, 2011)

i prefer to shoot at capt ron's private range

best instruction you can get locally (no b.s)

rapid fire, run and gun, anything you want. 20+ guns to try out (why buy something and realize you dont like the way it shoots)


----------



## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Pensacolaw said:


> i prefer to shoot at capt ron's private range
> 
> best instruction you can get locally (no b.s)
> 
> rapid fire, run and gun, anything you want. 20+ guns to try out (why buy something and realize you dont like the way it shoots)


*+1*
Never been to Capt Ron's but that is the way to go, as many carry guns as I have had, buy, sell, trade and still don't have the perfect one for me!


----------



## user17168 (Oct 1, 2011)

i hear ya frank, im must have lost at least a couple grand losing money on guns that just were "the one" for me

for a carry piece, its really gotta be perfect fit for the person

after years of back and forth on every small gun ever made, i finally settled on kahr 380, not a fan of the 380 round, but its so shoot-able, lightweight/thin, and i can get hits with it like its a full size glock


----------



## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Pensacolaw, that is why I don't make fun of anyone's carry choice if they work with it are trained and that is what they are most comfortable with in actual use. I have the PF9 and the P3AT and like them both.


----------



## Cola Boy (Mar 26, 2011)

Practice, practice, practice. I find myself unconsciously going through my steps in my head if anyone ever notifies me of their presence. I would like to go out to Capt Ron's sometime, we usually go out to my family's house up in Bratt, but that ends when hunting season kicks off. One of the best things to do is get a good run in before you shoot, get your heart rate up, and get in that heavy breathing mode, then try to pull your weapon and shoot on target while you are still gasping. We had a little course around 200 yds long, we would run/jog to 150 yds away, let off 2 with a rifle, run/jog to 100 yds away, change mags, let off two rounds, run/jog to where ever you feel comfortable taking out the remaining targets with your side arm. Careful, careful, careful, careful. Practice isn't any good if you can't walk away from it.


----------



## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

Pensacolaw said:


> i prefer to shoot at capt ron's private range
> 
> best instruction you can get locally (no b.s)
> 
> rapid fire, run and gun, anything you want. 20+ guns to try out (why buy something and realize you dont like the way it shoots)


Yes he's great. I, along with my wife and daughter-in-law, took his stress fire ccw course just over a week ago. Nothing like getting beat with a wood stick for slapping the trigger while trying to hit a target. That was fun and also made me realize I have a long way to go to become as proficient as I would like. Without having a large tract of private property, I'm not sure where you can train like that. The range master was giving me the eye the other day at styx for shooting a round per second. I'm sure he would have flipped out if I would have been quick drawing with double taps. It's not good for much other than running some ammo through the gun and sighting in I suppose.

I definitely plan on going out to train with him in the future.


----------



## Jcrowe (Jan 13, 2012)

I have heard that out is much easier to get the ccw in gulf breeze


----------



## Rocko (Jul 8, 2010)

Easier doesnt mean better...espc when it comes to safety..u want easy take the joke of a hunter safety class (least the one i did) its free, a few hours, send in the paperwork and your done...simple as it could get...pointless as it could get too

on anither note, i have not taken Capt. Rons CCW class...yet...but i have known Ron for years and he has trained me in numerous other things...he is a great guy and is all business...its either right or its wrong nothing in between...you wont find a better instructor


----------



## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

I try to shoot my CCW at least once per month. At least twice per year, I take a multi-day (2 or 3 day) handgun or carbine course at Southern Exposure Training (see the links in my sig line). I've repeated some of the courses as many as 6 times to date. Each time, I learn something new and my shooting improves. Courses at Southern Exposure definitely teach more than just good marksmanship -- you take them with the carry weapon and holster set-up that you would for CCW (at least you should choose to take them that way).

Realize that anyone can call themself a "firearms instructor". Look at the instructor's background -- in terms of who they have trained under. If their complete resume consists of an "NRA Instructor" course and holding a few classes in a clay pit somewhere -- keep looking.

Also remember that good instruction isn't necessarily inexpensive. Be prepared to invest as much (or more) for good training as you would for your CCW firearm & carry rig.

Finally, shooting as fast as you can isn't the most important skill set -- anyone can become a "brass factory" with a firearm. What is important -- is getting "good hits". Essentially, "take the curve" only as fast as you can "control the car" -- then practice to begin taking the curve faster while still getting good hits.

Southern Exposure now has the only operational "shooting house" available for civilian use in Florida. There, you can learn to shoot in environments and situations that you are most likely to find yourself in a self defense situation -- while experienced instructors are dissecting your shooting form to diagnose correctable problems and issues to make you a better self defense shooter.

In 16 years of carrying a CCW, I have only had to draw and fire my handgun at a threat (right before this past Christmas) one time. Hopefully, I will never face another situation where I must -- but I will be prepared. That incident was in a low light situation with a very quickly evolving set of circumstances and a very real threat. Fortunately, for all parties involved -- everyone is still living and breathing, although a few people are now looking at lengthy jail terms in State Prison.

What I took away from that experience was just how important and valuable some of my training proved to be.

First, time slows down -- what seems like minutes is actually fractions of a second (your mind and decision making is working at warp speed). Second, you develop tunnel vision (your peripheral vision closes in as you focus your attention on the threat you are facing). Finally, when you discharge the weapon (without hearing protection) all you hear is a slight "pop". Also, choosing quality self defense ammunition with "low flash" powders is very smart should a low light shooting become necessary. I was using Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection ammunition, and I suffered from no post-discharge night blindness as a result of a large fireball from the muzzle.

The only place I can think of to get a similar experince in a non-threatening environment is in a proper training facility with a very experienced instructor who has trained under various other very experienced instructors...

Shoot as often and as much as you can afford. Put it in your family budget and think of it as a form of "life insurance".


----------



## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

Thanks ScubaPro. That is a lot of good information. Glad to hear you survived a hostile situation.


----------



## timc (Oct 19, 2009)

scubapro said:


> I try to shoot my CCW at least once per month. At least twice per year, I take a multi-day (2 or 3 day) handgun or carbine course at Southern Exposure Training (see the links in my sig line). I've repeated some of the courses as many as 6 times to date. Each time, I learn something new and my shooting improves. Courses at Southern Exposure definitely teach more than just good marksmanship -- you take them with the carry weapon and holster set-up that you would for CCW (at least you should choose to take them that way).
> 
> Realize that anyone can call themself a "firearms instructor". Look at the instructor's background -- in terms of who they have trained under. If their complete resume consists of an "NRA Instructor" course and holding a few classes in a clay pit somewhere -- keep looking.
> 
> ...


How did the Gold Dot perform? Expansion wise? I keep my carry weapon loaded with Gold Dots. 
Glad to hear you are ok after that incident.


----------



## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

Wirelessly posted



FrankwT said:


> Pensacolaw said:
> 
> 
> > i prefer to shoot at capt ron's private range
> ...


+2!


----------



## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Would Be Interested .......*

.......what Capt. Ron's qualifications were to be an "instructor" in someone elses safety. If your out there Capt. Ron, would you please list your qualifications to teach. Also the different courses that you are qualified to teach. 

Thank you. --- SAWMAN


----------



## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

timc said:


> How did the Gold Dot perform? Expansion wise? I keep my carry weapon loaded with Gold Dots.
> Glad to hear you are ok after that incident.


The Gold Dot performed as advertised... 

The bullets are bonded in the Gold Dot line, so there is no jacket departure. 95-99% of the mass is retained in the bullet after it comes to a stop.


----------



## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

SAWMAN said:


> .......what Capt. Ron's qualifications were to be an "instructor" in someone elses safety. If your out there Capt. Ron, would you please list your qualifications to teach. Also the different courses that you are qualified to teach.
> 
> Thank you. --- SAWMAN


All you have do is go to his website and read it for yourself.

www.iwillnotbeavictim.com

I was very pleased with his instruction, especially how well he worked with my daughter-in-law who had a mild fear of of guns. He really helped her out. Results speak more to me than a list of certificates that anyone can get. His emphasis on safety was great. I personaly don't want to pay some crotchity old man 150 bucks to tell me how dangerous guns are and not teach me some real life dynamic shooting techniques.


----------



## collectorden (Jun 2, 2011)

SAWMAN said:


> .......what Capt. Ron's qualifications were to be an "instructor" in someone elses safety. If your out there Capt. Ron, would you please list your qualifications to teach. Also the different courses that you are qualified to teach.
> 
> Thank you. --- SAWMAN


Ron's usually on here, but here's his qual page:

http://www.iwillnotbeavictim.com/about_your_instructor.html


----------



## SAWMAN (May 24, 2010)

*Read It,Thanks*

I took a look at his site. Thank for putting that link up for me gentlemen. --- SAWMAN


----------



## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

Here is direct quote from Capt. Ron's page that makes him "qualified" to teach me and my family in my eyes.

"I have learned one major secret. There are no secrets to gun training! The secrets all lay in teaching ability and willingness to learn different shooting styles and techniques and how to properly apply them to individual situations for each student and weapon."

That says a lot to me. So many instructors, regardless of the disclipine, get locked into one methodology and try to force it upon every student. I am a certified tennis instructor and that only means I passed a simple written and moderately difficult skills test. Doesn't mean I can teach a lick. Some people are much better at doing than teaching. I hate to see people tied up in knots trying to execute a prescribed sequence of "steps" in a mechanical progression. I learned working under a very wise and accomplished professional, that you really need to take a holistic approach and teach to that particular individuals abilities and tendencies. What works for one may not for the other. There are definitely some fundamentals that everyone must have, but there are many different ways of accomplishing the same goal. Everyone's bodies have different movement patterns that are natural to them. A great teacher can apply the fundamentals within that framework where the individual is getting the most out of his or her god given ability.

I think this applies to tennis, throwing a ball, basketball, or gun training. I good instructor will not have the student's body fighting itself. That will get some discouraged and losing interest real quick.

I was impressed with Capt. Ron's teaching ability from what I saw. He is not going to try to ram a square peg into a round hole. My daughter-in-law was most comfortable with a 22mag revolver and was doing pretty well with it at the end of the day. I have already had many "gun guys" telling me that is a horrible choice for her and nothing more than a bee sting. If they got the chance to "teach" her they would be pushing her into something she is not naturally comfortable with, or well suited for, because of some pre-conceived notions they have. No Thanks. Something about guns really brings out a lot of testosterone and chest thumping with some. I still doubt they would want to step in front of her and be "stung" from a worthless little 22 mag.

Another thing I liked, is that he was not all done up in camo and tactical gear, looking like he was ready to clear houses in Iraq. We are talking about civilian's, learning how to defend themselves in the mall parking lot or pumping gas, from some thug. I'm not impressed with the cool tactical look I have seen from some of these guys running high priced schools on the web. Of course they all have a list of "qualifications" 40 pages long.

I think it's hard to beat one on one training as well. Some of these weekend courses are 450 bucks not including traveling expenses and there are 15-30 students. I'm sure it's useful training and a lot of fun, but how much one on one instruction are you going to get? I can foresee listening to a guy talking about all his experience while everyone is intently focused on him and running through some drills. Or, for 60 bucks an hour, I can have a local instructor intently focused on me and what I'm doing. My teaching experience tells me I will make much more progress in one on one instruction. IMO that is an incredible value compared to what's out there. You are going to get exactly what YOU need for cheaper than the cost of group instruction.


----------



## Ardiemus (Oct 12, 2010)

Go join IDAP and shoot the local matches held at ERML. There you can shoot scenario based stages where your only competition is you own shot placement and time. I have been shooting IDPA for over 10 years and you can learn tactics which can be built on for advanced levels. Take a good look at additional rifle and pistol courses. IDPA.COM

-Jonathan


----------



## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

bama99 - tell your daughter-in-law that there is nothing wimpy about 22 WMR. In a handgun with the right barrel length (4" or longer), the ballistics of the 22 WMR come close to that of a 9mm Parabellum bullet.

That is why George Kelgren introduced the Grendel P30 years ago -- and decided to bring it back (although I understand with improvements) as the PMR-30 under the Kel-Tec name.

If she can get the bullet in the right place on the target (or threat) 22 WMR is VERY deadly. I do recommend using the FMJ bullets in a handgun to improve penetration, especially in the NAA MiniMags.


----------



## bama99 (Dec 20, 2009)

scubapro said:


> bama99 - tell your daughter-in-law that there is nothing wimpy about 22 WMR. In a handgun with the right barrel length (4" or longer), the ballistics of the 22 WMR come close to that of a 9mm Parabellum bullet.
> 
> That is why George Kelgren introduced the Grendel P30 years ago -- and decided to bring it back (although I understand with improvements) as the PMR-30 under the Kel-Tec name.
> 
> If she can get the bullet in the right place on the target (or threat) 22 WMR is VERY deadly. I do recommend using the FMJ bullets in a handgun to improve penetration, especially in the NAA MiniMags.


I agree. I saw some ballistics test in gelatin where a 40gr fmj 22wmr fired out of a 2inch barrel penetrated over 14 inches and had a wound channel larger than the hollow point due to it tumbling like a .223. Not nearly as devastating but same principle. The hollow point only penetrated 9 inches. After seeing those results I think it may be a better option than the 38 special in a snub nose revolver. Easier to keep on target and an extra 3 rounds with greater penetration and a wound channel similiar in size to a 38.


----------



## FrankwT (Jul 25, 2010)

Carry the most you are comfortable with but a 22 is too light an impact at point of target, a 380 may be better a 9mm even better and so on and so on. You will not stop a bad guy advancing on you with a 22...just understand what your caliber can do.


----------



## scubapro (Nov 27, 2010)

FrankwT said:


> You will not stop a bad guy advancing on you with a 22...just understand what your caliber can do.


You will if you "flip the off switch on his computer" with a well placed eye socket or nose shot. 7 rounds to the sternum would incapacitate an aggressor quickly as well - and certainly take the fight out of most human beings until the multiple holes in their "pump & plumbing" leak enough blood to dispatch them permanently.

With that said, I prefer a .45 caliber projectile -- but I will not dismiss a 22 WMR hit(s) that is well placed.

Even a .45 caliber projectile is no guarantee of a "one-shot-stop". I saw this first hand in 1987 when I treated and flew a victim of 5 rounds of .45 ACP to the chest from Pensacola Beach to Baptist Hospital. He was a large guy, but had lost a huge amount of blood. We didn't stop in the ER but went straight to the surgery suite. He walked out of the hosptial a month or two later.

Oh, and the woman who had befriended him as a "lover" but was actually a contract killer -- she ended up suspiciously dead in a single car accident in Mississippi later that night...


----------



## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

Guys,
I appreciate all the kind words, but remember 95% of all your training can be done at home without ever leaving your house (just please don't tell your friends that, I still need the business!)

Tips for training at home:
1. Keep the gun pointed in a cheap direction!
2. Pick a target the size of a 9" paper plate 6-10 feet from you in various low light and daylight situations
3. Always practice one handed, left and right handed shooting, two handed shooting is for competition. Two handed shooting will only slow you down, confuse you, and hurt you in a stress fire situation in close proximity to target unless you properly shoot EVERDAY .
If you don't feel confident one handed, left or right handed shooting at a torso size target 0'-25 feet you are have not been properly trained (not your fault)
My students know there's no need for two hands on a gun and learn to shoot stronger and faster with more control one handed than two.

You will never draw faster than somebody who already has a gun pointed at you...
Fake a heart attack, asthma attach, epileptic seizure drop to the ground and roll away from your threat until your weapon is accessible and ready to fire.
Do you really think your attacker is going to try to attack you while your on the ground rolling to what appears to him in a near death state? He will however probably shoot you point blank without hesitation if he sees you quickly reach for a gun in a holster or pocket.


Learn to use your non gun hand for other things...like:
throwing objects in the path of your attacker, pushing your child out of the way, opening an exit door, grabbing a secondary weapon such as a knife, hammer, grandma's knitting needle, or simply grabbing your neighbor's kid and using him as a shield.
Remember! Get off the X!!!!(the bulls-eye) Do not exchange bullets for bullets or bullets for stabs, it's not a good exchange. Two hands on a gun often leaves the defensive shooters emotionally and mentally glued to the floor when they should be moving. If you cant back up, run or move for cover, get that free hand ready to punch, block, jab, or eye gouge your attacker because you missed every shot due to neglecting to find the front sight before you slapped the trigger with every shot. It's hard to hit your target when your staring at the threat and not the front sight of your gun. You will most likely be dead before you have the time to find where your laser is pointing. There's no time to find a laser when you have less that .5 seconds to shoot your target at 3 feet. If you haven't trained stress-fire, you haven't trained for self-defense.

PUSH-PULL-SQUEEZE-AND HOLD. Repeat as necessary!


----------



## Capt Ron (Aug 12, 2008)

SAWMAN said:


> .......what Capt. Ron's qualifications were to be an "instructor" in someone elses safety. If your out there Capt. Ron, would you please list your qualifications to teach. Also the different courses that you are qualified to teach.
> 
> Thank you. --- SAWMAN


Sawman,

My website comes with a warning about me and my training. It's not for everyone and I often to refuse to train people for various reasons. I'm a general all-around certified bad-ass. There's not a tactical/practical pistol Instructor in Northwest Florida that can out-shoot me or out teach me. I'm always open for shooting pistol for money because it's one of the very few safe ways to add pressure to my own personal training. 

For keeping my skill set sharp, It's either shooting for money OR going down to Arizona twice a year while posing as a film producer making a documentary on drug dealing illegal aliens in bad parts of South Tuscon, then waiting for those same illegals to try to attack me as I simply defend myself with a Glock 17 and 33 round magazines. Do you really think the Tuscon police investigate a bunch of drug dealing illegal cartel members getting shot to death in the streets? Relax People...I'm totally kidding. I don't shoot for money.

So.... now that I have pounded my chest, pissed on a few trees, and laid down several gauntlets of testosterone like every other guy with a gun, let me say this in all sincerity:

All the the pretty letters embroidered on my shirt and all the instructor courses (NRA, GLOCK, NAVY, FDLE, FL DEPT of AG, and certificates mean absolutely nothing other than the state of Florida accepts my signature for the little if any standard of training they require for a police certification, ccw license, or security guard license. It shows nothing other than I really know how to fill out paper work. It's the first thing I tell my students. Don't be impressed with my instructor credentials, be impressed with how I meet your training expectations. 
I don't teach to impress you with my shooting techniques, I teach to IMPRESS my shooting techniques UPON YOU.

As far as qualified to teach for firearms, I'm a pistol expert. To train students for Any place, any time, any situation shooting simply by mastering the basics. I have never found or learned what I consider to be an "advanced" shooting technique. I like trap/skeet, but would have to go to England for a course before I felt comfortable teaching such a class. I'm qualified to teach Medium distance rifle shooting out to 700 yards.
I teach beginning archery on compound bows, but how can you really miss with these new string rifles and their sights?


What means the most to me is the feedback I get from my students.

SAWMAN,
Spend an hour or two with me. If you're not impressed with the level and quality of training you receive I will not charge you. I will also kiss your ass, and give you a half hour to draw a crowd!


----------



## HisName (Nov 29, 2009)

I practice with a empty weapon regularly at home and generally use instinctive firing for the first round for speed and fast aim for the 2nd round.

I practice firing from my vehicle once deer season is over because there is a good chance you may have to defend yourself with a seat belt on.

Tip - cover the defrost vents or you will obtain a permanent rattle in your dash.

fast draw and instinctive shooting does not work for everyone but years of practice has shaved time off my reactionary draw and fire JMO


----------

