# Ribbons



## Pierrunner

Does anybody make ribbon rigs and would be willing to sell a few?


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## Pier#r

The stores in Alabama have hundreds.
Call J&M, Top Gun or Sam's...


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## kingfish501

Gulf breeze has them.


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## weedline

did anyone ever find out if they are legal in fla


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## flounder1156

weedline said:


> did anyone ever find out if they are legal in fla


This question on ribbon rigs come up annually here on the forum.......

Ribbon rigs,are *not legal* in Florida waters due to the rigs being "entangling devices". 
When the writing( language used ) of the gill net ban back years ago, and Florida voters,voted overwhelming to ban gill nets, the language was changed to " entangling devices. So they are now *illegal.*
It makes no sense from a conservation standpoint when using this device as a method of catching alewives (LY's) for bait verses a bait cast net. These rigs ,catching two or three fish at most per drop or an individual throwing a 10' bait net catching several hundred baits per throw only to have 90% die when released...go figure.


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## Pier#r

At one time the TECHNICAL argument was raised that "Ribbon Rigs" are illegal in Florida.
Apparently that is no longer the 'official' interpretation as was asked (and answered by FWC) in the following thread ...
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/red-ribbon-bait-rings-395337/index2/



> Visit Ask FWC to find answers fast, contact us and view your previous requests.
> Create Date: 6/13/2014 10:06:00 AM
> Reference # W014127-061314
> Customer:
> Category: Fishing, Saltwater Fish & Marine Organisms
> 
> Description: Are these rigs illegal to use now? Small net with a red ribbon running through them, catch the fish by the gills. Remember we used them in the 70s. Think they are called Pilchard rigs too. If they are illegal, cant we get a law to allow something like them just for recreational bait catching?
> 
> From: Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission <[email protected]>
> Date: Monday, June 16, 2014 9:16 AM
> To: xx
> Subject: Ask FWC :: W014127-061314
> xx: *These are legal for the harvest of bait species.* Thanks, Alan


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## kingfish501

I make the ring ribbons. I wonder if FWC considers those to be entangling devices.


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## flounder1156

Pier #R , kingfish101 ..... this topic ,ribbon rigs ,was brought up here on the forum last year and I notified our FWC Law Enforcement Division to try and get a correct legal /illegal ruling of the law . 
The question I asked " are ribbon rigs legal for baitfish harvesting in Florida waters".... was referred to the FWC legal division in Tallahassee , where the legal counsel returned the reply that ....."by the definition of the rig ,it's construction of netting material ,or wire , is considered an *entangling device* and under Fl. Statute is illegal in or on the state waters of Florida,. 
I have seen these devices being used at area gulf piers...... Pensacola ,Navarree , Okaloosa Island for baitfish (alewives/ (LY) harvesting. 
David .....the Ask FWC question and it's response you have cited , was from someone in the FWC marine fisheries management division who did not understand the law, rule language and wording. This wording of the rule and law are the end result of a constitutional challenge for a gill net ban legislation that was overwhelmingly passed by Florida voters nearly 15 years ago.


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## kingfish501

Flounder, if FWC itself doesn't know, as per their response before, it is a flawed writing of the law, and unenforceable. The key word is "entangling device" because under that word, baitfish gilling themselves makes that castnet an entangling device, but taken literally, a mullet seine would be legal, since the mesh is too small for mullet to entangle. Hell, most sabiki rigs entangle bait if they roll up in it .

The intent of the law was to ban certain types of nets, but the language is incorrect.

Never trust a lawyer to interpret what the law says. They are trained to strain at motes of dust while ignoring boulders. Look at our commander in chief who is a lawyer and his ignorance of the law.

I'm going to copy that response from FWC saying ribbon rigs are legal and carry it in my wallet.


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## flounder1156

kingfish501 said:


> Flounder, if FWC itself doesn't know, as per their response before, it is a flawed writing of the law, and unenforceable. The key word is "entangling device" because under that word, baitfish gilling themselves makes that castnet an entangling device, but taken literally, a mullet seine would be legal, since the mesh is too small for mullet to entangle. Hell, most sabiki rigs entangle bait if they roll up in it .
> 
> The intent of the law was to ban certain types of nets, but the language is incorrect.
> 
> Never trust a lawyer to interpret what the law says. They are trained to strain at motes of dust while ignoring boulders. Look at our commander in chief who is a lawyer and his ignorance of the law.
> 
> I'm going to copy that response from FWC saying ribbon rigs are legal and carry it in my wallet.


 kingdfish501.... I did ask the FWC officer about this ASK FWC question and comment............... and the response that was given on the use or legality of ribbon rigs. He ( lieutenant ) carried the inquiry up the chain of command to Tallahassee legal section where the FWC attorney read the rule ,legislation banning "entangling devices" aka gill nets.
I agree with you on cast nets ,they are entangling devices... but the wording of the law to proposed to ban gill nets ,entangling devices law stated cast nets not more than (less than 14') and some other types of nets, are legal. 
As I have stated ,not trying to come off as a smart ass. just trying to help. 
I have seen these devices ...ribbon rigs.... being used the past three years from area gulf piers for catching alewives ,LY .In July when the tarpon run is is on ,the ribbon rig is about the only method to catch bait ....Sabiki rigs are useless. 
A good idea you have .... Copy that reply and keep it on you. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## FreeDiver

I've always been told it's illegal.... It's intentionally gill netting. Not a side catch while throwing for mullet.. 

It's similar to the you cant spear billfish, but if you pull them up to the boat or pier you can gaff one.... That's a load of shit.


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## kingfish501

My rings don't catch them in the gills. Middle of the body. In law, words..or misuse of words...is everything.

FWC miswrote the definition....I'll take advantage of it. ...plus with.that response from FWC, show a court, if FWC decides to ticket for using a ribbon catcher....that FWC itself doesn't have a clue what the regulation that they, themselves, wrote...which invalidates it.


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## KingCrab

kingfish501 said:


> My rings don't catch them in the gills. Middle of the body. In law, words..or misuse of words...is everything.
> 
> FWC miswrote the definition....I'll take advantage of it. ...plus with.that response from FWC, show a court, if FWC decides to ticket for using a ribbon catcher....that FWC itself doesn't have a clue what the regulation that they, themselves, wrote...which invalidates it.


They who would issue a ticket for said devise is just what we have for a problem being an brainless Officer Of The Law. Has anyone received a ticket for a ribbon rig? There are some officers who really know nothing about fishing or anything else but wanting to cite someone for just about anything. I remember a girl fwc once that proves my point.


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## kingfish501

KC when I lived in PC Beach...one was writing tickets for undersized Spanish, and over the limits.....what he was looking at was cigar minnows.

Back when cleaning fish on piers was legal, one was going to write me up for an undersized cobia...even though the fillet was 29 inches long.


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## FreeDiver

Smoke'm if you GOTT'EM! I'm ready to set hook!


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## Pier#r

Thank you for the follow up flounder1156
I kinda wundered why they would 'backpedal' on their ruling.
Glad to hear it isn't enforced there and gladder it is NOT illegal here in Alabama ;-)

Good idea to have a printed copy of that 'Ask my FWC' response in the tackle box 'just in case' lol


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## weedline

why does it matter i never had a problem catching lys ay pc or okalosa on sabikis or gold hooks yea the ribon rigs work but but i prefere the size on sabikis


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## FreeDiver

Sabikis tend to slow down once the poons are in town. Don't get me wrong you can still catch them with the ol gold hook rig but it's not like early season bait pulling up 7-8 at a time..... 

Once they stop eating the gold hook down I start throwing the swim bait to poons.


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## startzc

The part everybody stops at is entangling device but if you keep reading the statute it is for devices over a specific size, i think 15 or25 sq ft. I have read that statute through like 5 times trying to find any clear indication one way or the other and yes it is left very ambiguous. I was told by more than 1 FWC officer in person that it is fine for small strings for bait. I make my own ring rigs out of 80-120lb malin wire and single barrel crimps with a single ribbon run through it. Basicaly just keep making figure 8s from the middle of the wire on down with whatever size circles for the bait you intend to catch.


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## Ez2cDave

*How to make pilchard rings *
*
*
*To All,

When I was growing up in South Florida, I used Pilchard Rings ( aka - "Ribbon Rigs" ) to catch baitfish ( Pilchards / Menhaden ) from the fishing piers . Recently, I discovered that they have been declared to be a "gill net", theoretically "illegal", and not available in stores anymore. I always used to make my own, as a kid.

So, for purely "historical value" . . .

"HOW TO MAKE PILCHARD RINGS"

MATERIALS :

6 ft. of #7 Dark-Colored, Solid Leader Wire

1 Barrel Swivel

1 Snap Swivel ( to allow weight changes )

Cardboard Toilet Paper / Paper Towel Tube, use 1" SCH 40 PVC, also 

3 ft. of Bright Red Ribbon ( 3/8" - 1/2" wide )

Pyramid, Bank, or Dipsey/ Bass Sinker ( 3/4oz - 1 1/2oz +/- )

CONSTRUCTION :

(1) Start with a six-foot length of No. 7 dark leader wire.

(2) Bend it in half and slide on a barrel swivel.

(3) Tie a LOOSE, TWO-TURN, overhand knot in the wire near the bend to "capture" the swivel

(4) Form a loop, using a the cardboard or PVC tube as a "mandrel" ( you may need to vary the loop size depending on baitfish sizes in your area) and make a SINGLE-TURN Overhand Knot ( NOT literally a "knot" ).

(5) ALTERNATE the direction of the Overhand Knots each time to help the rig hang straighter

(6) Repeat until you have a series of loops, leaving a couple of inches of wire free at the bottom

(7) Slip on the Snap Swivel and connect the loose ends of the wire, using a SHORT Haywire Twist

(8) Hold the rig at each end and pull on it to stretch the loops out into an oval shape

(9) Attach the bright red ribbon at one end by knotting it to the Swivel loop

(10) Pass the ribbon through rings one-third and two-thirds of the way up the rig

(11) Attach the ribbon to the other Swivel, leaving some slack in the ribbon when fully extended

(12) Attach the Sinker to the Snap Swivel and the rig is complete

HOW TO USE:

Tie the rig to a light spinning rod and lower or cast it into a baitfish school and let it sink. You will feel baitfish hitting the rig. Keep the line tight and wait for the* rod to bend. When it does, wait a few seconds and reel up. Remove baitfish and repeat, as desired !


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## Pelagicide

Can you post a picture of a ribbon rig? There are some days when neither Sabaki's or gold hooks work and people start offering to buy Pinfish, Spot when they see one come over the rail. I was jigging a gold hook rig and not paying attention because it was so slow when a Cobia darted out and grabbed it and almost yanked it out of my hands lol - kept it on all of 5 seconds max before the tiny gold hook pulled - now that woke me the F up!


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## Ez2cDave

Pelagicide said:


> Can you post a picture of a ribbon rig? There are some days when neither Sabaki's or gold hooks work and people start offering to buy Pinfish, Spot when they see one come over the rail. I was jigging a gold hook rig and not paying attention because it was so slow when a Cobia darted out and grabbed it and almost yanked it out of my hands lol - kept it on all of 5 seconds max before the tiny gold hook pulled - now that woke me the F up!



Here are a few pics . . .


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## Ez2cDave

A few more items . . .


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## Ez2cDave

There is another thread about this, too.

https://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/red-ribbon-bait-rings-395337/

Tight Lines !


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## reelthrill

FreeDiver said:


> Sabikis tend to slow down once the poons are in town. Don't get me wrong you can still catch them with the ol gold hook rig but it's not like early season bait pulling up 7-8 at a time.....
> 
> Once they stop eating the gold hook down I start throwing the swim bait to poons.


You are exactly right.


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