# Mass Buoy



## Capt. Myles Colley (Mar 12, 2008)

The Mass buoy has moved. It is west of the mass and maybe a little north about 1/4 mile. Be careful.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

It always moves in bad storms the CG will have it restored in a couple weeks. Heres the numbers for the turret that is closest to the surface.
N30 17.797 W87 18.726


----------



## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

sealark said:


> It always moves in bad storms the CG will have it restored in a couple weeks. Heres the numbers for the turret that is closest to the surface.
> N30 17.797 W87 18.726


Yes it does. Seems like it would be better and safer if they just anchored it to the wreck.


----------



## Bustedknuckle (Feb 11, 2009)

So is the bouy marking the wreck but not the turrent? did they add something I seen a channel marker bouy is that the same thing we talkin about?


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

The buoy never has marked the wreck it's always south of the wreck. The wreck is clearly marked on charts in relation to the buoy. It will never be placed on the wreck. The reasons have been discused to length on here in the past. Do a search...


----------



## ABailey (May 25, 2010)

sealark said:


> The buoy never has marked the wreck it's always south of the wreck. The wreck is clearly marked on charts in relation to the buoy. It will never be placed on the wreck. The reasons have been discused to length on here in the past. Do a search...


Oh I know its been covered several times, just stating my thoughts on the subject.


----------



## murfpcola (Aug 28, 2012)

The bouy does look like a red channel marker!


----------



## jjam (Dec 9, 2007)

murfpcola said:


> The bouy does look like a red channel marker!


I believe it is a red channel marker, and also believe because so, is asking for an accident or worse. 

RED RIGHT RETURN RULE can be dangerous if an unfamiliar boater is navigating from O.B. close to the shore...case in point, boater traveling from O.B to Blues Angel show a couple years ago gets launched after hitting Mass's turrent. He was lucky and escaped major damages.

Must be a better way to mark subsurface hazards I say!


Jimmy


----------



## murfpcola (Aug 28, 2012)

How hard would it be to paint it yellow or orange! They will prob pick it up to move it anyway. Knowing the way the government works it would probably take an act of congress and would make to much sense to do that though.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

What you guys are stating makes sense for anyone that that knows absolutely nothing about the waters and navigation. That's another good reason for everyone to take a course in basic rules before they get a boat. If you know how to read a chart or look at you GPS there is no reason to hit the Mass. There have been people hit the Mass that have been navigating and have captain licenses most of there life. Just a few years back a charter boat hit the Mass a very well known charter boat that goes out several times a week.


----------



## Tobiwan (Apr 27, 2012)

I heard others previous to that charter boat have also ran up on the Mass. It only makes sense to paint yellow but why bring logic into this. LOL


----------



## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2011)

If you cant pay attention to a gps or chart then painting a buoy is not going to help those people.


----------



## jaster (Oct 7, 2007)

And you cant always rely in the gps. Mine says its almost 600 yrds from where it actually is?


----------



## Snagged Line (Sep 30, 2007)

Someone marked the Rock Pile in the bay near NAS. It is outside of the channel. It seems as if someone reconized the hazzard and took additional steps to warn folks. 
That would make too much sense to add annother means to locate the hazzard. After all, it's on all the charts..........


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

jaster said:


> And you cant always rely in the gps. Mine says its almost 600 yrds from where it actually is?


Well I posted the numbers they are right on. What are you talking about the wreck or the buoy? If you are talking about the Buoy that's where it's suppose to be...:thumbup: As for GPS being off I use mine quite a bit and have NEVER seen it off Rain or shine clouded or windy. In fact you are the first one that I have ever heard say that GPS was off.


----------



## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

OR yall can do like I do and avoid that bastard completely! :thumbup: I know its there, I remember when dad bought the 79 Proline back in 2000? we would fish around it but i remember there was alot more sticking above the water, its been twelve years ago so I do not remember exactly what i saw. But there was a good sized something above the water. It has always freaked me out and for that reason I want nothing to do with it.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

murfpcola said:


> How hard would it be to paint it yellow or orange! They will prob pick it up to move it anyway. Knowing the way the government works it would probably take an act of congress and would make to much sense to do that though.



Because yellow buoys are reserved for special marks, you can't just make them any color you think is pretty. All buoy colors signify something. Also red, right, return, is a mnemonic device it is not a rule of any sort. It is only valid in Region B of the IALA Bouyage System, not Region A. The mark at the pass marks the safe water. You stay to the east of it. If you don't know what they mean no aid to navigation will be of assistance.

Regards,


----------



## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

If they wanted people to stop hitting it and clear up any confusion they would put this right on top of the darn thing.









Why they have a red buoy out there, I have no idea.


----------



## murfpcola (Aug 28, 2012)

Interesting, if I take a basic course on operating a boat I will be fine, but if I have a captains license most of my life I can hit the the Mass.:whistling:


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DreamWeaver21 said:


> If they wanted people to stop hitting it and clear up any confusion they would put this right on top of the darn thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That mark you posted is used to show a hazard to shipping, which the Mass is not because it is outside the marked channel. It would be used to mark a hazard in an area of otherwise navigable water. Which the Mass is not.

Its not on top of it because, if it was right on top of it, by the time you read it, you would have hit it.

The fact that you have no idea why it is red says a lot.


Everyone keeps talking about the Charter boats that hit it. The Entertainer hit it, because she was on autopilot and the Captain was not tending the wheel, not because he didn't know it was there. The same reason the Sea Hunter hit the Rig this year. Experience cannot always overcome bad judgement.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

jasoncooperpcola said:


> OR yall can do like I do and avoid that bastard completely! :thumbup: I know its there, I remember when dad bought the 79 Proline back in 2000? we would fish around it but i remember there was alot more sticking above the water, its been twelve years ago so I do not remember exactly what i saw. But there was a good sized something above the water. It has always freaked me out and for that reason I want nothing to do with it.


No need to fear it, just know your area. It can be a great place to catch Cigs!


----------



## John B. (Oct 2, 2007)

the Mass is just like any other area on the water! go idle around it and get familiar with the area before you run through there on plane... it's really nothing to be afraid of.


----------



## murfpcola (Aug 28, 2012)

" The fact that you don't why its red says a lot" It must be red because its a channel marker because the different colors signify certain things. :thumbsup:


----------



## MrFish (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't go near it, because there are typically 50 boats on it. I can catch just as many cigs on a channel buoy.


----------



## dockmaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Why is it that people from out of the area dont have an issue with the Mass or the buoy. Probably cause they look at a chart and use the taxpayer marked and lighted channel....

Cracks me up that people can go find a car body in a 100feet of water but have issues with a marked and lighted navigation hazard.

I'll guarantee you that everyone that's ever hit the Mass didn't know where they were!!

Thanks for the report Myles!!

Rock on

Billd


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

If we are making up new nav rules and painting buoys any color we want I suggest we put a disco ball on it!


----------



## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not that I am scared of it. I am planning to paint my boat and do not want to scratch it. :thumbup: Those cigs sure wont touch up the paint lol


----------



## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> If we are making up new nav rules and painting buoys any color we want I suggest we put a disco ball on it!


Why not have Lamar drive a pipe right thru the middle of it and put their big signs on it? Lots of room to hang disco balls. :whistling:


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

murfpcola said:


> " The fact that you don't why its red says a lot" It must be red because its a channel marker because the different colors signify certain things. :thumbsup:


I rest my case. 

I mean you can't be serious? 
Are you mocking me? 
I really can't tell. Sooo...thumbs right back atcha bro.

I know, it must be my fault. Maybe I oversimplified things in my earlier post. To clarify: THE SHAPES, THE FLASHES OF THE LIGHTS, and THE COLOR OR COLORS. In fact every aspect of a Navaid signifies something. Red Channel Markers are nun-shaped buoys or triangle shaped day marks and are even numbered. The buoy on the Mass is NOT Nun Shaped, NOT Even Numbered and ergo NOT a channel marker. If you don't know what they mean you are f'in lost. Just as if you couldn't read a street sign.

If you would like me to give you a down and dirty on the IALA Buoyage system please contact me. I'm serious, the offer stands for anyone.


----------



## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Damn some folks will make fun of other people for no reason.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

aroundthehorn said:


> Damn some folks will make fun of other people for no reason.


He started it. :whistling: :surrender:


----------



## aroundthehorn (Aug 29, 2010)

Diesel said:


> He started it. :whistling: :surrender:


That wasn't directed at you, Diesel.


----------



## Burnt Drag (Jun 3, 2008)

Diesel said:


> I rest my case.
> 
> I mean you can't be serious?
> Are you mocking me?
> ...


You've already taken most of us to school.:whistling:


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Myles, congrats on your Memorial Day Results.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Burnt Drag said:


> You've already taken most of us to school.:whistling:


Nah bro, I just wish people took time to make themselves safer, the resources are there. I've been there, you get a new boat and, get all excited etc. and figure...how hard can it be. Most of the time, not all that hard, but when it goes bad...it goes REALLY BAD. Plus I really do like helping and teaching people.


----------



## DreamWeaver21 (Oct 3, 2007)

Diesel said:


> It would be used to mark a hazard in an area of otherwise navigable water. Which the Mass is not.


I see boats navigating the water very near the mass every day that I am out. Yes it is outside the channel but the water surrounding the mass is quite navigable.



Diesel said:


> Its not on top of it because, if it was right on top of it, by the time you read it, you would have hit it.


I didn't mean some little thing like they have in the bayous. I mean a big ass marker the size of the thing that marks it now. Well the thing that used to sorta mark it.



Diesel said:


> The fact that you have no idea why it is red says a lot.


What does it say?

BTW thanks OP for posting this. I had no idea the marker had moved.


----------



## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

I went through a couple courses of Navigation in Navy ROTC and aboard a Carrier. I got "alongside" qualified during a shipboard tour.

Still, I cannot tell a "mass buoy" from a red bouy on the way back in to the P'cola pass.

I understand there might be a difference, but I don't remember.

To ask a non trained boater to know the difference is silly. Unless you do a "recency" license you are asking guys to remember what might be a very subtle difference.

I don't remember much from my navigation training.

I remember "Red Right Returning", but to ask me the difference between a nun bouy, or a derrick bouy, etc is foolish.

I agree, the buoy should be much closer to the Mass. There should be a second one close on the North side too.

If it (they) moves in a storm, they should be replaced eventually.

The "channel buoys" are not perfect. They can be improved.

How about bright ORANGE rather than red to mark underwater obstructions? On the Mass, maybe four North, South, East, and West, at say 200 yards?

Good fishing around the ORANGE "nun" buoys too.

But that would take an Act of Congress to change the "rules of buoys" or whatever it is called.

Jim

Jim


----------



## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

A little bit off topic but why didn't they drop some of the 3 mile fishing bridge rubble off to the side of the mass because it is already marked and it would give us local small boats some fish to catch?


----------



## flukedaddy (Apr 11, 2009)

Pier-Dude said:


> A little bit off topic but why didn't they drop some of the 3 mile fishing bridge rubble off to the side of the mass because it is already marked and it would give us local small boats some fish to catch?


I 2nd this^^^^^^ It would be nice since its so damn tough to add new ones Y not enhance some of the existing. Even more pilars around the steel jetties. But it just makes to much dam sense.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

It's to shallow. I know the Mass is there but the Reef builders have regulation they must go by and that's just one of them. You have acres of rubble a little to the East of the pass and West of the Barges with tons of fish on that area in 50 feet of water.


----------



## Boat-Dude (Sep 24, 2011)

sealark said:


> It's to shallow. I know the Mass is there but the Reef builders have regulation they must go by and that's just one of them. You have acres of rubble a little to the East of the pass and West of the Barges with tons of fish on that area in 50 feet of water.


Hmm how far outside the pass. I may get a boat soon and give up on pier fishing.


----------



## jasoncooperpcola (Jan 2, 2008)

Pier-Dude said:


> Hmm how far outside the pass. I may get a boat soon and give up on pier fishing.


I just spent two minutes swatting a fly in the lower left corner of my screen with no luck, just to scroll up and discover it was a bouncing elephant. :whistling:


----------



## Bustedknuckle (Feb 11, 2009)

It doesnt help the bait fish are rarely outside of 100 feet of the dang turrent. I agree some type of "official" marker should be placed. I would like out of all the # of people of who hit it and ask them if it was marked if they woulda hit it anyways. Seems like if we can put at least put one more life less at risk why not "officially" do so. We are not asking to to put a sign in the the pass saying "small boats please dont enter 10 ft waves" just my 2 cents.


----------



## flukedaddy (Apr 11, 2009)

I wonder what important person ran into the rocks going down the beach on NAS when exiting bayou grande, for that matter both sets of rocks have now been marked, and looks to be holding up fine fo far. Just wondering what it takes to get approved, I know the Navy put the no wake signs up for along time their with no county ordinance numbers underneath so I did'nt follow them until they did was always wondering if the navy could write me a citation?.. never happened.


----------



## sealark (Sep 27, 2007)

I think this post is worn out about the Mass Buoy. I have one more thing to say in a GIF.:yes::yes:


----------



## FenderBender (Oct 2, 2007)

I've got a couple of boxes of broco rods if anyone has an ac dc welder, generator, o2 bottle, stinger and about 75 ft of torch lead.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

DreamWeaver21 said:


> I see boats navigating the water very near the mass every day that I am out. Yes it is outside the channel but the water surrounding the mass is quite navigable.
> 
> 
> I didn't mean some little thing like they have in the bayous. I mean a big ass marker the size of the thing that marks it now. Well the thing that used to sorta mark it.
> ...



I guess every body of water is navigable until you hit what is underneath it.

Sorry to break this to you, the definition of Navigable Water is not every ditch you can drive your Bass Tracker through. Should they mark every subsurface stump that rides underneath Perdido River and Eight Mile Creek, I mean damn there is lots of fishes up there?

Budgeting for Navaids, Dredging, etc. is allocated based on Corps of Engineer logs which document the amount of tonnage which travels through a waterway. The more tonnage the more money. There is only so much budget. Reality sucks, huh.

Yes, it was quite considerate of the OP advise us of the situation, nothing beats firsthand real-time information. (for those of you without access to Internet Forum Codes For Dummies, the OP is the guy that started this thread, and using it makes me cool) 

Of course, if someone were not fortunate enough to be a member of Pensacola Fishing Forum they could find this out on the USCG District 8 Local Notice to Mariners; which of course, will be issued tomorrow.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

jim t said:


> I went through a couple courses of Navigation in Navy ROTC and aboard a Carrier. I got "alongside" qualified during a shipboard tour.
> 
> Jim


So... does that make you like a Superhero or something? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once. (True Story)


As to the rest of your argument, I really don't know how to respond. 

Basically, you're saying it's silly for anyone to be expected to know what they are doing on the water, and prettily colored, whimsically placed, random shaped objects would fix the World. Ummm, ok...got it.

No my friend, it would take more than an act of Congress to change the INTERNATIONAL Association of Lighthouse Authorities (Emphasis on International) conventions on Navaids.

Oh wait, I guess I did know how to respond.


Sealark, you're the man, I hope to one day have the patience, self control, courtesy you always exhibit.


----------



## jim t (Sep 30, 2007)

Just saying that are ways to better mark a safety hazard. That it's "International" doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

My point was that I was trained to know all the buoys and have forgotten nearly everything.

To think that the average Joe boat owner would know the difference is naive. 

I'd bet the "500 ft standoff" buoys around NASP are not in the "International Association of Lighthouse Authorities".

There are "no fishing" areas in the keys marked with non-standard buoys...

Just sayin',

Jim


----------



## fisheye48 (Sep 28, 2007)

ive got the idea to solve all of this....STAY AWAY FROM THE DAMN THING!!!


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Way to Go Myles....See what you started???:whistling:


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

jim t said:


> Just saying that are ways to better mark a safety hazard. That it's "International" doesn't mean it cannot be improved.
> 
> My point was that I was trained to know all the buoys and have forgotten nearly everything.
> 
> ...


Of course there are better ways, there are better ways to do almost everything. The problem is that they are what they are, and they ainta changin'. If you want to start a thread about the ills of bureaucracy lets do that, I'm all for it. The moron who designed the buoy system is probably the brother of the jack-leg who decided to scuttle the Mass there for target practice in the first place. I am not not, nor have I been arguing, that what is out there is the super best way for it be marked. I am pointing out that it is marked, how it is marked, and if you run around it at high speed or in reduced visibility without knowing how, you do so at you and your passengers peril. I am also pointing out that Navaids ARE standardized, they ARE the law, and a boater needs to know them the same way a motorist does. I am NOT saying that every one of them needs to be memorized. NOONE has them all memorized, that's what Light Lists and Coast Pilots are for. What I am sermonizing, is that a prudent boater should take the effort to learn the ones in the area that THEY plan on transiting so that they know what they are looking at, what to expect, and what to avoid.

The no fishing markers are not Navaids. There are all kinds of "other" marks and Privately Maintained Aids on the Charts and Light Lists. That is also where the stand-off buoys would be found. It would give a description as well as their significance.


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> Way to Go Myles....See what you started???:whistling:



He's entitled, he catches big fish. I only used to could catch big fish.


----------



## whome (Oct 2, 2007)

Diesel said:


> He's entitled, he catches big fish. I only used to could catch big fish.


How big a fish are we talkin?


----------



## Diesel (Jan 9, 2008)

Capt. Jon Pinney said:


> How big a fish are we talkin?



You're going to have to show me how to draw a wiener on here. Is there an emoticon for that?


----------

